Military Review

Putin: statements about the outbreak of war by Stalin-the height of cynicism

266
The Russian president spoke at the plenary session of the Valdai Discussion Club the day before. One of the topics covered is the increasingly common allegations that the blame for unleashing the Second World War allegedly lies equally with Hitler and Stalin. In particular, with such an interpretation of events, a month ago, they made a little in Poland, where events were held in memory of the beginning of WWII - the very events where they decided not to invite the Russian president, but the American simply did not come.




According to Vladimir Putin, making statements about the outbreak of war by Joseph Stalin is the height of cynicism.

The President of Russia noted that such statements are a vivid example of attempts to falsify stories. From a speech by Vladimir Putin at the Valdai Forum:
As if at 4 in the morning of June 22, Soviet troops crossed the border. On this day, it was German troops who invaded the USSR.

According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.

It is important to note here that attempts to put Hitler Germany and the Soviet Union on the same scale are being made more and more actively.

Methods of counteraction to these processes are necessary, otherwise Russia will encounter such a stream of misinformation that ultimately leads to the fact that in Western terminology only the USSR will be called the culprit of the beginning of the Second World War. For this, it is necessary to actively open archives, publish data on the cooperation of European governments with the Nazis, and that not only German units and formations, but almost half of Europe invaded the USSR. Moreover, this work should be not one-time, but systematic - so that the Great Victory does not succeed in slandering even those who set themselves such a strategic task.
266 comments
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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 4 October 2019 07: 20
    +41
    According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.
    .... Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on 9 May ...
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 4 October 2019 07: 23
      +21
      Quote: parusnik
      Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on May Xnumx

      Some even annoyed draped.
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 4 October 2019 07: 30
        +21
        Putin: statements about the outbreak of war by Stalin-the height of cynicism
        that is, against Solzhenitsyn? But what about the flowers to the monument to the "great writer"?
        1. Vladimir16
          Vladimir16 4 October 2019 07: 57
          -22
          Quote: parusnik
          .... Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on 9 May ...

          This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.
          As a result of his armed seizure of power, a civil war broke out in our country.
          Tens of millions killed.
          Millions in immigration.
          The country is in poverty.

          The last (God forbid !!!, that would be the last) conflict in Ukraine. In fact, this is the same civil war.

          Why are you so happy? That you communists brainwashed?

          The Russian people won the war with the Europeans.
          Europeans led by Hitler attacked our country

          Let me remind you that Russians were previously called not by nationality, but by language. All people who lived in the Russian Empire and spoke Russian were Russian. And the Tatars and Buryats and all other peoples living from time immemorial in Russia for the whole world were the Russian people.

          You need not to be doggy, but to learn to live together again.
          Putin is right.

          And Ulyanov is like a scarecrow for many millions. Therefore, it is not visible at the Nationwide holidays.
          1. Black owerlord
            Black owerlord 4 October 2019 08: 23
            +6
            Catch sticking out!
          2. Edward Vashchenko
            Edward Vashchenko 4 October 2019 08: 33
            +27
            This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.

            It was Ulyanov who cut off Russia in "Belovezhskaya Pushcha" for the most part, don't spoil who else.
            1. Vladimir16
              Vladimir16 4 October 2019 08: 56
              -17
              You see, Edward, in the Bialowieza Forest, a group of communists agreed that they are now on their own. But strictly within the boundaries established by the RKPB.
              Ulyanov was born and received a GOOD education in a country that was significantly larger than the country in which he died.
              Moreover, by agreement, the straits and Constantinople, according to the results of the First World War, left Russia. And this was expected in the year 1917 ...
              As a result of neither straits, nor Constantinople, nor Russia.
              Well, why the heck did our family blood shed in the first world?

              A hundred years have passed, and we are still dogged.
              And in Ukraine, the war at the moment.
              That’s damn communism. This infection has brought us from Europe.

              Yes, still remember the officials who, under the LAW, have nothing in their property, but they manage all the benefits of OUR MOTHERLAND.
              And this infection from the glorious USSR. Neither the hell nor what has changed.
              We live under the partocrats, only they renamed the party.

              And of course, IPeshniki businessmen, housewives and self-employed, who do not pay tax to this chantrop, are to blame. laughing good
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 October 2019 09: 17
              -20
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              It Ulyanov circumcised Russia in "Belovezhskaya Pushcha "do not spoil the most, who else.

              Earlier, from 1917. But even AFTER the formation of the USSR, the territory of Russia declined with speed 10 CRIMEA IN THE YEAR (1922-1940gg)!

              And in the republics of the USSR none (except for Russians, and even those who scared) he did not think to consider him Russia.
              .
              Russian borders 17 century Born precisely then, in 1917-1940.
              1. Leshy1975
                Leshy1975 4 October 2019 10: 47
                +7
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                It Ulyanov circumcised Russia in "Belovezhskaya Pushcha "do not spoil the most, who else.

                Earlier, from 1917. But even AFTER the formation of the USSR, the territory of Russia declined with speed 10 CRIMEA IN THE YEAR (1922-1940gg)!

                And in the republics of the USSR none (except for Russians, and even those who scared) he did not think to consider him Russia.
                .
                Russian borders 17 century Born precisely then, in 1917-1940.

                Andrei, why are you such a pathological liar? Well, after all, there was already a similar polemic where you advocated a similar stupidity. And now it’s necessary, since you yourself are not able to stop, poke you in your lies:
                declined [/ b] with speed 10 CRIMEA IN THE YEAR (1922-1940gg)!

                Specially, only for you (from WIKI):
                On November 12, November 1939, the third Extraordinary Session of the Supreme Soviet of the BSSR decided: "To accept Western Belarus into the Belarusian Soviet Socialist Republic and thereby reunite the Belarusian people in a single Belarusian state."

                On November 14, November 1939, the third Extraordinary Session of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR decided: "To accept Western Ukraine into the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic and thereby reunite the Ukrainian people in a single Ukrainian state."

                Both territories were part of the Polish state until 28 September 1939. according to the results of the Riga Peace Treaty of 1921 of the year, their western border was almost completely east of the Curzon line, recommended by the Entente as the eastern border of Poland in the 1918 year.

                PS I wonder at you. Well, after all, you are misinterpreting the facts known to most. And what is most striking, do it with enviable constancy. And even if we assume that you consider Russia separately from the USSR, then 1940-1922 = 18 years. 18let * 10 of Crimea in the YEAR = 180 of Crimea. Where are such losses of territories? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                If (source Wiki) After the accession of part of the border territories of Finland received by the USSR under the Moscow Peace Treaty, which completed the Soviet-Finnish "winter" war (1939 — 1940), 31 On March 1940, the VI session of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR (Supreme Soviet of the USSR of the 1 convocation) was held in Moscow.

                Here you can’t do without it fool
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 4 October 2019 11: 42
                  -7
                  Quote: Leshy1975
                  Andrei, why are you such a pathological liar?

                  To the ignoramuses I brought DRY NUMBERS from: "The national economy of the USSR in 1956
                  (Statistical Digest)
                  ttp: //istmat.info/files/uploads/18147/narhoz_rsfsr_1956_predislovie_2.pdf:

                  1922 g territory of the RSFSR ------ 20,8 mln km2
                  1940 g territory of the RSFSR ---------- 16,8 million km2


                  Reduction of Russia for 18 years-on 4mln km2.
                  territory of Crimea 0,027 mln km2

                  The rate of decrease in Russia over 18 years: 4 mln / 18 = 0,023 mln km2

                  Those. Russia circumcised - with speed 10 CRIMEA in a year!

                  And this is AFTER cut off earlier, during the creation of the USSR, Malorosiya, New Russia, Slobozhashchina and Donbass, etc.

                  Did it get there? No. hi
                  1. TAMBU
                    TAMBU 4 October 2019 12: 18
                    +3
                    teach history in the context of historical events and based on the methodologies used in historical science. and if at the same time you expand your horizons to dialectics, then you will be happy ... or "woe from wits", or rather, both are in themselves =)
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 4 October 2019 12: 30
                      -6
                      Quote: TAMBU
                      learn history in the context of historical events and based on the methodologies used in historical science. and if at the same time you expand your horizons to dialectics, then you will be happy

                      In addition to the empty Boltovnina- on the fact of the wild reduction of Russia, there is nothing to argue with? Nothing.

                      The borders of Russia of the 17 century today is a fact. Like the fact that they are created in 1917, 1918, 1919, 1922-1940 (mostly).

                      The figure was remembered (-10 CRIMEA A YEAR!) And okay.
                      Maybe it will someday .... No.
                      1. Vladimir16
                        Vladimir16 4 October 2019 15: 43
                        -1
                        Andrew, a stubborn communist can’t fix the Lenin leader! laughing
                        They do not need facts.
                        It’s like fixing a hunchback.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 October 2019 08: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Vladimir16
                        Andrew, a stubborn communist can’t fix the Lenin leader!
                        They do not need facts.
                        It’s like fixing a hunchback.

                        Nothing, the number in the brain has already settled, let it drill now. yes
                      3. TAMBU
                        TAMBU 4 October 2019 19: 52
                        +4
                        Why 1940? Why not 1945? This time. The national question in your "-10 Krymov" and the situation at the end of WWI has not been analyzed and evaluated as the context of the objective reasons for the decline of the Empire after its destruction and collapse, ATTENTION! after the FEBRUARY revolution. These are two. Nationalities are an integral part of capitalism, or rather its forms of imperialism, as the essence of development and destruction, and hence the movement of the very concept of capitalism. These are three. (if you read Lenin, everything is clearly written about it, but you have not read it and do not read it - it’s more interesting). Now pay attention to the question: What have the Bolsheviks got to do with it? Thanks.
                        What comes up? That you don't understand history as a science? So already. Read the "historians" with their personal interpretations and the selection of various facts for the desired conclusion and beat yourself in the chest proving, on the one hand, the obvious, on the other, incompatible logically.

                        Well this is the preface, and now in order.

                        This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.
                        You obviously confuse the February and October revolutions or consider them as one whole (one and the same). The Russian Empire lost its territory for two main reasons: as a result of the WWII and the backwardness of the socio-economic, especially against the background of the countries with which the separatists border. In fact, there are many more reasons and they are all important in one way or another, just too lazy to sort out.

                        As a result of his armed seizure of power, a civil war broke out in our country.

                        As a result of the seizure of power by the Soviets (and this is not the Bolsheviks, but you need to read books about it, too lazy to explain everything), a civil war might not break out, but it happened. The Czechoslovak corps also played a significant role in this, and there, too, an interesting story turned out to be directly related to the best allies of tsarist Russia - the French.

                        Tens of millions killed.
                        Millions in immigration.
                        The country is in poverty.

                        Yes ... horror. And also the intervention. Nevertheless, the majority of peasants in Russia after the first two years of the war understood who and what was offering them. Everyone knows the result.

                        The Russian people won the war with the Europeans.

                        The Soviet people defeated ... Kazakhs, Belarusians, Russians, Ukrainians and others. This was so because the model of society did not imply division according to nationality, but in order not to provoke nationalists, Lenin divided the country into republics, while encouraging the development of national characteristics very widely. Oh yes ... it was an atomic bomb ... that saved the country from separatism for 70 years.

                        Let me remind you that Russians were previously called not by nationality, but by language. All people who lived in the Russian Empire and spoke Russian were Russian. And the Tatars and Buryats and all other peoples living from time immemorial in Russia for the whole world were the Russian people.

                        About foreigners, Jews (the Jewish question was very interesting in tsarist times, very ...), malorosov, and others could be read ...

                        And Ulyanov is like a scarecrow for many millions. Therefore, it is not visible at the Nationwide holidays.


                        This is from a near mind ...
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 October 2019 08: 22
                        -1
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        Why 1940? Why not 1945?
                        It is possible and 1946-area of ​​Russia .... 16,9 million km2.

                        Yes, a "huge" increment: practically-nothing (comparable to the loss of MILLION km2)!
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        and decay, WARNING! after the FEBRUARY revolution.

                        Lying. ALL independence is only AFTER the thieves on its basis. It is a fact.
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        Nationalities are an integral part of capitalism, or rather its form of imperialism, as the essence of development and destruction, and therefore the movement of the very concept of capitalism. These are three. (if you read Lenin

                        Who is ... Lenin? He wrote a lot of nonsense, completely refuted. what is the cost of replacing the army and militia ... with "universal arming of the people" fool
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        That you don't understand history as a science? So already. Read the "historians" with their personal interpretations and the selection of various facts for the desired conclusion and beat yourself in the chest proving, on the one hand, the obvious, on the other, inconsistent logically.

                        Chatter. What for?
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        The Russian Empire lost its territory for two main reasons: as a result of the WWII and the backwardness of the socio-economic, especially against the background of the countries with which the separatists border. In fact, there are many more reasons and they are all important in one way or another, just too lazy to sort out.

                        Empire-did NOT lose ANYTHING, the Bolsheviks lost (sold).
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        As a result of the seizure of power by the Soviets (and this is not the Bolsheviks, but you need to read books about it, too lazy to explain everything), a civil war might not break out, but it happened.

                        Until the thief, no gr massacre. This FACT-chop yourself a bundle.
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        The Soviet people defeated ... Kazakhs, Belarusians, Russians, Ukrainians and others.

                        Where is he?
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        Lenin divided the country into republics, while very widely encouraging the development of national characteristics. Oh yes ... it was an atomic bomb ... that saved the country from separatism for 70 years

                        over 70 years, the Dragon’s teeth sowed in 1917 have matured. NOBODY from RI did not leave, unlike the USSR.
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        This is from a near mind.

                        They were waiting for him in St. Petersburg, at Universitetskaya yes
                      5. TAMBU
                        TAMBU 5 October 2019 11: 41
                        -2
                        I will not spend time on your education anymore. You have little knowledge and it is not interesting with you, in view of the stupidity that you consider your answers or comments during the discussion. If this topic is interesting, study it yourself. If I’m not able to leave a link here to Yegor Yakovlev, who deals with this topic and approaches fairly impartially and the narrator is interesting.
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 October 2019 12: 28
                        -1
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        I will not spend time on your education anymore. You have little knowledge and it’s not interesting with you, due to the stupidity which the you think your answers or comments during the discussion.

                        lol laughing
                        Quote: TAMBU
                        on Yegor Yakovlev, who deals with this topic and approaches fairly impartially

                        Why do I need these talkers?
                  2. Leshy1975
                    Leshy1975 4 October 2019 12: 43
                    -1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Quote: Leshy1975
                    Andrei, why are you such a pathological liar?

                    To the ignoramuses I brought DRY NUMBERS from: "The national economy of the USSR in 1956
                    (Statistical Digest)
                    ttp: //istmat.info/files/uploads/18147/narhoz_rsfsr_1956_predislovie_2.pdf:

                    1922 Territory of the RSFSR - 20,8 mln km2
                    1940 g territory of the RSFSR ---------- 16,8 million km2


                    Reduction of Russia for 18 years-on 4mln km2.
                    territory of Crimea 0,027 mln km2

                    The rate of decrease in Russia over 18 years: 4 mln / 18 = 0,023 mln km2

                    Those. Russia circumcised - with speed 10 CRIMEA in a year!

                    And this is AFTER cut off earlier, during the creation of the USSR, Malorosiya, New Russia, Slobozhashchina and Donbass, etc.

                    Did it get there? No. hi

                    Russia could not be circumcised only for the simple reason that before that in the Republic of Ingushetia, there was no division into republics, but other administrative units existed - provinces and regions. A map of Russia was = map of ALL RI.
                    Which, however, does not cancel the existence of problems, for example, General A.N. Kuropatkin wrote in the 1916 year on the Turkestan Territory: "The Russian authorities for half a century of dominion in the region failed to not only make foreigners the faithful servants of the Russian emperor and devoted citizens of the Russian state, but also to instill in their minds a sense of unity of their interests with the interests of the Russian people"

                    And yet, from the history of the Republic of Ingushetia and whether the national question had to be taken into account (source karhu53.livejournal.com, writes Karl Corey (karhu53):

                    In suppressing the uprising (in Turkestan, my note), the punishers showed cruelty no less than the rebels themselves - when the soldiers sent to pacify the riot saw the heads of Russian women and children planted on the forks, their reaction was corresponding. Military courts were set up that could easily impose death sentences; captured rebels were often shot on the spot even without such a court, or were killed during escort with a formal reply “while trying to escape”. Widely used artillery, destroying entire villages. There were cases when the Cossacks polled down the entire male population of auls with drafts.

                    But on the map of RI, all of this was not.
                    And what you brought is just an internal administrative reorganization in the ONE STATE.
                    And if you come from this side, then you will know that it was based on completely different motives, for example (source VESTNIK OF PERM UNIVERSITY, UKRAINIZATION OF VORONEZH KRAI IN 1923 – 1932 YEARS):

                    Based on the census of 1920. Ukrainian population in the Voronezh province totaled 1070411 residents and made up more than 33% of the population. Ukrainians prevailed in the south of the province, in Ostrogozhsky, Bogucharsky, Rossoshansky districts [Korotun, 2012 s.69]. It was these territories that became the testing ground for Ukrainization in the Voronezh region. Education, clerical work, cultural and educational work here were subject to translation into Ukrainian. The position of this actor can be described as passive. The very idea of ​​indigenization consisted in the prospect of the interaction of the population in their native language, which was supposed to facilitate the spread of communist ideas and make the new political regime more attractive. However, in the case of the Ukrainian language, it was not so simple. As a result of complex migration and cultural-historical processes in the Voronezh province, both in the Kuban and southeast of Ukraine, the population spoke a dialect that was significantly different from the literary Ukrainian language. The term “surzhik” is often used to denote it.

                    So, the administrative division took place within a single country, in accordance with completely different tasks, and did not necessarily coincide with the borders of nationalities. And as today's example of reorganization is the transfer of part of the land of Ingushetia to the Czech Republic.

                    PS And they tried to increase the territory of a single country and tried to learn and teach all nations to live in a ONE COMMON HOUSE, albeit having their own apartments - the republics.
                    So that this does not happen again (source rg.ru, Lessons of the Turkestan uprising) - on the road came across the corpses of 10 summer raped girls with outstretched and cut out interiors. Children were smashed on stones, torn, planted on peaks and skewers. More adults were put in rows and trampled by horses.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 4 October 2019 13: 20
                      -11
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      And what you brought is just an internal administrative reorganization in the ONE STATE.

                      You DO NOT LIE here, but read the Constitution of the USSR, there are NO "administrative" divisions, but there are NATIONAL STATES -Republics, with their borders.
                      HOW then they cut it, 80- years ago, so FINE borders are today.
                      Koi you today and see firsthand!
                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      And so, administrative division took place within a single country, in accordance with completely different tasks,

                      In the window, look at the "administrative" division, and at the same time at the "single" country.

                      Quote: Leshy1975
                      And the territory of a single country, they tried to increase

                      you take a look at the textbook: increased UKRAINE, BELARUS.
                      Russia-WHAT with this benefit, except losses and costs?
                      1. Leshy1975
                        Leshy1975 4 October 2019 13: 57
                        -2
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        You DO NOT LIE here, but read the Constitution of the USSR, there are NO "administrative" divisions, but there are NATIONAL STATES -Republics, with their borders.
                        HOW then they cut it, 80- years ago, so FINE borders are today.

                        Well, if everything is your way, then how did the very Crimea appear in the Ukrainian SSR?
                        If the republic, according to the constitution, are all such national and independent STATES.

                        Constitution of the USSR 1924 year.
                        Chapter Two
                        On the sovereign rights of the Union republics and the Union
                        citizenship
                        6. The territory of the Union republics cannot be changed without
                        their consent


                        Constitution of the USSR 1936 year.
                        Article 18. The territory of the union republics cannot be
                        mutable without their consent.


                        But there was one small problem with the constitution in the USSR, namely, it did not correspond to the actual state of affairs.
                        Therefore, once again: they could not cut off anything from Russia, because BEFORE Soviet power, RI and Russia are one and the same. And when the Soviet power collected back the fragments of RI, then they created a new design (yes, with the republics), but in the ONE STATE. And within this state, the borders between the republics did not play any decisive role. Because withdrawal from the union, although it was prescribed in the constitution, was in fact not feasible. And this situation continued until the death of the USSR itself. And then the borders defined in the USSR had to be confirmed by military force. Therefore, the Bolsheviks were building a ONE state, and not how you are trying to imagine that Russia is something else, less than RI.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 5 October 2019 08: 35
                        -2
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        Therefore, once again: they could not cut off anything from Russia, because BEFORE Soviet power, RI and Russia are one and the same.

                        belay You are given OFFICIAL NUMBERS by statistics statistics on the territory of the RSFSR, where MINUS 4 million km2 are indicated.
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        And when the Soviet government collected back the fragments of RI, they created a new structure (yes, with the republics), but in the ONE STATE.

                        She cut the territory of Russia into gats. states, what ... "fragments", what nonsense?
                        WHERE is the "united state? Look in the window!"
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        Because withdrawal from the union, although it was prescribed in the constitution, was in fact not feasible.

                        We look into the window.
                        Quote: Leshy1975
                        Therefore, the Bolsheviks built a ONE state,

                        And they built 15 states and all with Russian lands.
                      3. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 5 October 2019 08: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        all with Russian lands.

                        Alaska, too, do not forget to attribute to the damned Bolsheviks. And Hyperborea. To walk like a walk)
                  3. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 4 October 2019 13: 35
                    +3
                    I cited DRY FIGURES from: "The national economy of the USSR in 1956.
                    (Statistical Digest) ttp: //istmat.info/files/uploads/18147/narhoz_rsfsr_1956_predislovie_2.pdf:

                    1922 g territory of the RSFSR ------ 20,8 mln km2
                    1940 g territory of the RSFSR ---------- 16,8 million km2

                    Andrey, good afternoon.
                    It will not be difficult for you to indicate the page in the collection you have indicated, where are these numbers? thank
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 5 October 2019 08: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      Andrey, good afternoon.
                      It will not be difficult for you to indicate the page in the collection you have indicated, where are these numbers? thank

                      Hello Timur.
                      Стр. 5.
                      I have indicated the address above, I will repeat: http://istmat.info/files/uploads/18147/narhoz_rsfsr_1956_predislovie_2.pdf
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 7 October 2019 08: 25
                        0
                        Thank. Just the link above did not go directly. He began to search by the name that you indicated
                        I cited DRY NUMBERS from: "National Economy the USSR in 1956 city

                        And did not find. Just now I noticed that the link itself says the RSFSR.
                  4. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 5 October 2019 11: 02
                    -1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    The rate of decrease in Russia over 18 years: 4 mln / 18 = 0,023 mln km2

                    Divided immediately by 10 to lead to the Terr of Crimea, which is not entirely correct.

                    More correct like this:

                    The rate of decline in Russia over 18 years: 4 million km2 / 18 =0,23 million km2 / year,
                2. TAMBU
                  TAMBU 4 October 2019 12: 09
                  +5
                  I thought this freak was joking ... well, such sarcasm ... but no ...
                  1. Leshy1975
                    Leshy1975 4 October 2019 13: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: TAMBU
                    I thought this freak was joking ... well, such sarcasm ... but no ...

                    Olgovich categorically refuses to consider the issue in the context of something common and greater.
                    So he finds himself in a situation where several blind people feel the elephant for different parts and try to conclude what it looks like. hi
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 4 October 2019 09: 49
              -7
              It was Ulyanov who laid the mine under the Power, dividing it into national entities, with the possibility of their withdrawal from the country.
          3. Faron
            Faron 4 October 2019 09: 31
            +8
            Vladimir, why the interim government could not solve the accumulated problems? Maybe they could not be solved in another way? Except as the Bolsheviks suggested?
            Was the country, the majority of the population of RI, not in poverty? Or did the majority of the people have an accessible education, medicine? There was an affordable pension. Was the standard of living higher? Was it in RI?
            Let us not forget that despite the fact that the Soviet man, not Russian, but the Soviet, did not have the opportunity to buy real estate and cars. Could not have a thousand rags and pairs of sneakers adidas. He had a normal education and normal medicine.
            Is it normal that we now have free ambulance from the Soviet Union. And not like in the connecting states - payment for an ambulance from 250 $.
            Probably these are the achievements of Comrade Lenin.

            And were all Russians in RI who spoke Russian?
            No, according to the census, the division is more specific

            And did nationalities, with the exception of the displaced, in the Soviet Union be affected in their rights?
            1. Vladimir16
              Vladimir16 4 October 2019 09: 59
              -17
              The Bolsheviks did not offer anything for the development of Russia.
              Kerensky began the collapse of the country.
              And the same bureaucrats helped him in this as now.
              Greed and thirst for power drives such people.
              Ulyanov is even worse. He decided to put experiments on the country. Over hundreds of millions of people.
              Ulyanov was pulled out of Europe and stuck in Russia for complete collapse and anticipating a civil war.
              The man with the nickname "Lenin" has fulfilled his mission - the civil war claimed tens of millions of lives. The country was in ruins.

              I saw this in a coffin
              ... as suggested by the Bolsheviks? ...

              They proposed the destruction of tens of millions of inhabitants of my homeland, and the rest were forced to go into poverty.

              Then the Bolsheviks began to destroy themselves. Millied in the camps.

              The same Korolev sat on the bunk.
              And you are proud that you found him on the bunk and pulled him out of prison.
              And who drove him there.
              And how many engineers are gone?

              Sikorsky as a result of Leninist work left for the USA.

              "Ilya Muromets" was created in Russia, remember that?

              You do not see the story beyond your nose.

              A similar generation is being grown in Ukraine. A generation that will not be interested in a story earlier than 17.
              1. Leshy1975
                Leshy1975 4 October 2019 11: 40
                +3
                Quote: Vladimir16
                and the rest were forced to go into poverty.

                Well, since the transformation of Soviet power is not to your liking, which of course was given in blood and sweat. The Civil War, you can’t cancel it when the system is broken, well, no matter how you did not want the old system, like this, to give up without a fight.
                So, I'll probably give you an example so that you can be proud and enjoy the descriptions of a happy life in RI. Written by Vera Figner, excerpted from The Sealed Labor:

                First of all, I took up my official duties. Eighteen days out of thirty, I had to be outside the house, traveling around villages and villages, and these days gave me the opportunity to plunge into the abyss of national poverty and grief. I usually stayed in a hut, called a driveway, where patients immediately flocked, notified by the courtyard of the tent or elder. 30-40 patients were instantly filled with a hut: there were old and young, a large number of women, even more children of all ages who read out the air with all kinds of screams and squeaks. Dirty, exhausted ... it was impossible to look at the sick with indifference; all diseases are chronic: in adults, rheumatism at every step, headaches, lasting 10-15 years; almost all suffered from skin diseases - in a rare village there were baths, in the vast majority of cases they were replaced by washing in a Russian stove; incorrigible catarrhs ​​of the stomach and intestines, chest rales, heard many steps away, syphilis, sparing no age, scabs, ulcers without end, and all this with such unimaginable dirt in homes and clothes, with food so unhealthy and meager that you stop in stupefying over the question: Is this the life of an animal or human?

                It’s a pity that you personally cannot share fate and live the lives of these very unfortunate ones:
                Is this the life of an animal or human?
                . Maybe they would understand. hi

                PS For information: Vera Figner - Russian revolutionary, terrorist, member of the Executive Committee of the "Narodnaya Volya", later a Socialist-Revolutionary Party, but left the party after the exposure of E.F. Azef and the subsequent disappointment in terror. After the February Revolution, he was chairman of the Committee for Assistance to Liberated Prisoners and Exiles, a member of the Cadet Party, and a candidate for it to the Constituent Assembly. The October Revolution did not accept, was faithful to its right-wing people and democratic views, but remained to live in Russia.
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 4 October 2019 12: 03
                -5
                Quote: Vladimir16
                Ulyanov is even worse. He decided experiments put over the country. Over hundreds of millions of people.

                He wrote about this directly (about the coup and the subsequent):
                "IN EXPERIENCE interesting participate!"


                He experiments set over people, he was wondering what would happen ....
              3. TAMBU
                TAMBU 4 October 2019 19: 56
                0
                Oh .... I know where these phrases about experiments come from .... Starikov juggles the facts with the conclusions he needs. One day you will be ashamed that you were his apologist, as I did at one time, but this is normal. You have to start somewhere. The main thing is do not stop in your search and do not lose your critical attitude to the absorbed information ... you will succeed. Just do not stop at one author.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 October 2019 11: 59
              -11
              Quote: Faron
              why the interim government could not solve the accumulated problems?

              It decided ONLY, put to him by the people, the Emperor, and the Soviets. task: organized the most free elections in the world. in CSS.

              And nationwide US-solved ALL problems. But he was killed by traitors who lost free elections.
              Quote: Faron
              Was the country, the majority of the population of RI, not in poverty?

              There is. dress, live (mNUMX in the city), as in 1913 Mr. Russian man could only to ...1950m years, i.e. 40 years just CASED.

              With the built socialism in 1937 g lived MUCH POOTER 1913 of the year — in food, clothing, housing .: see Report of the Central Statistical Administration of the USSR 1955.

              In the 1930's, the demographic catastrophe began.

              That's the whole story.
              1. Foul skeptic
                Foul skeptic 4 October 2019 13: 50
                0
                There is. to dress, to live (mNXX in the city), as in 2, the Russian people could only by ... 1913m years, i.e. 1950 years just CASED.

                Under socialism that was built in 1937, the MUCH poorer 1913 of the year lived on food, clothing, housing .: see the Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955.

                In the 1930's, the demographic catastrophe began.

                That's the whole story.

                They looked like that more than once)) Not only that, they explained to you more than once what and how in this report. Therefore, I do not want to bring the tables combined from this report into one summary, you can look in previous conversations, but I’ll better ask:
                And in what year did the subject of the USSR begin to live better than the subject of the Republic of Ingushetia not 1913, but 1917 of the year?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 5 October 2019 08: 45
                  -2
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  They looked like that more than once)) Not only that, they explained to you more than once what and how in this report. Therefore, again, the tables combined from this report into one summary lead

                  Lead: FULL failure.
                  Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                  And in what year subject The USSR began to live better than a citizen of the Republic of Ingushetia not in 1913, but in 1917?

                  1. Citizenship did not exist in the USSR
                  2. And what?
                  1. Foul skeptic
                    Foul skeptic 7 October 2019 08: 52
                    0
                    Give:

                    It seems like he wrote
                    So again ... I don’t want to bring, you can look in previous conversations

                    But since it will look like your famous "Itself, itself", so be it - I will give links to topics where the ill-fated tablet appeared.
                    https://topwar.ru/155410-podnjat-s-kolen-rossiju-sekrety-stalinskoj-jekonomiki.html#comment-id-9191117
                    https://topwar.ru/155538-trockizm-vse-bedy-ot-nepolnogo-znanija.html#comment-id-9205970
                    https://topwar.ru/159183-horoshaja-vojna-vladimira-putina.html#comment-id-9455996
                    1. Citizenship did not exist in the USSR

                    I agree, poorly expressed.
                    2. And what?

                    And what's the difference why I decided to pose the question like that? Here is your answer I would very much like to hear. And if you also explain why you think so and what data you rely on in your conclusions, then there will be no price for such an answer.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 7 October 2019 10: 10
                      +1
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      https://topwar.ru/155410-podnjat-s-kolen-rossiju-sekrety-stalinskoj-jekonomiki.html#comment-id-9191117
                      https://topwar.ru/155538-trockizm-vse-bedy-ot-nepolnogo-znanija.html#comment-id-9205970
                      https://topwar.ru/159183-horoshaja-vojna-vladimira-putina.html#comment-id-9455996

                      The tables are wrong: the manipulation of green and 1928 This is not a "Soviet" year. Soviet years: 1937, 40.
                      In the Report there is a TABLE, where the Kcal consumed per capita are calculated "in 1954 g in the RSFSR: 2834 kcal / person
                      WHAT BELOW 3000 kcal 1913
                      Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                      And what's the difference why I decided to pose the question like that? Here is your answer I would very much like to hear.

                      Please: NEVER.
                      1. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 7 October 2019 11: 33
                        0
                        Tables are incorrect

                        Then it should not be difficult for you to indicate an error in the calculations.
                        1928 This is not a "Soviet"

                        Oh how
                        In the Report, however, there is a TABLE, which calculated the Kcal consumed per capita "in 1954 in the RSFSR: 2834 kcal / person.
                        WHAT BELOW 3000 kcal 1913

                        This point in the topics indicated by the links already explained how inattentively you read. A person needs to consume as much as he spends. In suffering in RI, the costs of a peasant reached 5-7 thousand kcal. In the 1950s at the same works collective farmers spent 3,2-3,5 thousand kcal. What is written in the report, by the way, in black and white. And in our time, the average daily rate of 2500 kcal. Hence, do you think the conclusion is that in 2019 we live worse than in 1913? The energy demand in RI was covered by cereals, in the table summarized by me this is clear - in the USSR, the cells for bread are red. So now no one eats so much bread, and that's fine.
                        Please: NEVER.

                        That is, you say that for the entire period from 1922 to 1991 there is not a year when the citizens of the USSR lived better than the subjects of the Republic of Ingushetia of the 1917 model?
                        Well, there was also a request
                        And if also with an explanation of why you think so and what data you rely on in your conclusions, there will generally be no price for such an answer.

                        And then when simply - "never" - somehow unconvincing.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 October 2019 15: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Oh how

                        That's right: then they destroyed him as they could. And the indicators of 37 g are much WORSE worse than 1928 and, especially, 13 g
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        This point in the topics indicated by the links already explained how inattentively you read. To man need to consume as much as he spends.

                        Bravo! good
                        Therefore, the CSB Report also writes the following about the year 1954 (!):
                        in the diet of the population of the USSR COMPLETELY underrepresented foods containing proteins, fats, vitamins A and C, i.e. vegetables and melons, fruits and berries, and animal products.

                        The proportion of protein, fat and calories animal consumption in actual consumption for 1954 is lower than recommended by scientific standards
                        :
                        Those. 2384 kcal, according to the CSB, is NOT enough to restore the spent.

                        And do not forget that CHILDREN in Russia were much MORE than in the USSR and more than adults. Those. they needed LESS, and adults got MORE.
                        In the dying USSR with few children, few children and fewer adults (from the average)

                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        In the 1950s, on the same work, collective farmers spent 3,2-3,5 thousand kcal.

                        Yes, yes, and there it is taken into account how the collective farmer worked even more nights and nights on his scraps, plus to corvee (on the collective farm) during the day.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        That is, you say that for the entire period from 1922 to 1991 there is not a year when the citizens of the USSR lived better than the subjects of the Republic of Ingushetia of the 1917 model?

                        Yes
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And if also with an explanation of why you think so and what data you rely on in your conclusions, there will generally be no price for such an answer.

                        And then when simply - "never" - somehow unconvincing.

                        I have no purpose to convince you.

                        In short:

                        1. until 1960, they were catching up on food, clothing, housing (they finally caught up).
                        2. According to demographics-complete collapse- from beginning to end.
                        3. Complete alcoholization of the population.
                        4. For freedoms, zero.
                        5. Destroyed Russian village
                        6. A torn country.
                      3. Foul skeptic
                        Foul skeptic 9 October 2019 19: 20
                        -1
                        That's right: then they destroyed him as they could.

                        Who destroyed what?
                        Bravo! good
                        Therefore, the CSB Report also writes the following about the year 1954 (!):
                        in the diet of the population of the USSR, foods containing proteins, fats, vitamins A and C, i.e. vegetables and melons, fruits and berries, and animal products.

                        The share of protein, fat and calories of animal origin in actual consumption for 1954 is lower than recommended by scientific standards
                        :
                        Those. 2384 kcal, according to the CSB, is NOT enough to restore the spent.

                        Do you even try to understand what you are pulling out of the text.
                        1) Not enough, and who argues with that? None. Always strive for the best. But it’s just nowhere said that it is more insufficient than in 1913. On the contrary, it is clearly written, but you always ignore it:
                        the data presented ... show that the consumption of high-quality food products - vegetables and melons, meat and lard, milk and dairy products, eggs and sugar, has significantly increased in working and peasant families, compared with the pre-revolutionary period.

                        Worker and peasant families are 9/10 of the population of the Republic of Ingushetia.
                        2)
                        2.1) Lower proportion of proteins, fats and calories animal origin, not lower at all. These are different things. The lack of animal-derived BFU was still compensated by the plant-derived BFU. And apparently you decided that in RI this was better with this? And I and Klepikov say that it is worse by 26,6% (20 / 15,8) in calories of animal origin and by 29,7% (38 / 29,3) in proteins of animal origin.
                        2.2) Scientific norms of the beginning of the century and the middle of the century are completely different. Moreover, I can tell you at the beginning of the 20th century 6 European researchers and 2 Russian and the norms they derived. And they are all different. The same is true for the middle of the century. Except for one "but" that matters in the context of our dispute. And what I think you will understand from the example:
                        hygienists of the beginning of the century believed (taken from the aforementioned Klepikov) that the scientific norm for humans to obtain animal proteins is 35% of the total number of proteins. Now look at the same parameter in your favorite 1950s report - 60%. Therefore, what was considered below the norm in the 1950s (38%) for the beginning of the century was above the norm.
                        2.3) About the "insufficiency" of 2384 kcal should have been clarified on the basis of paragraphs 2.1 and 2.2 - you mixed the general and the particular (animal components).
                        And do not forget that CHILDREN in Russia were much MORE than in the USSR and more than adults. Those. they needed LESS, and adults got MORE.
                        In the dying USSR with few children, few children and fewer adults (from the average)

                        Another proof that you know nothing about statistical calculus. Because even a person trying to learn something about statistics at the top would not have written what you wrote.
                        Because the gender and age composition is already taken into account by correcting coefficients based on scientific norms of consumption for different ages. And for pre-revolutionary times (for example, according to the methodology of Herzenstein) and for post-revolutionary statistics. What, by the way, is also mentioned in the report - if you tried to figure out what you were reading, you would see for yourself.
                        Scientific nutrition standards were developed by the Institute of Nutrition of the Academy of Medical Sciences of the USSR for individual age groups. To obtain nutritional norms per capita on average, norms for individual age groups should be weighted by the proportion of each age group in the entire population.
                        Given by comrade Khrushchev N.S. at the September Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU (1953), data on scientific nutrition standards were calculated by the Institute of Nutrition of the USSR Academy of Medical Sciences by weighting the population of 1939; these norms are somewhat different from the norms obtained by weighing by the age structure of the 1954 population:
                        In the 1954 population, the proportion of the adult population increased, and therefore, the nutrition rate increased for those products for which the norm for adult nutrition is higher than for other age groups.

                        Yes, yes, and there it is taken into account how the collective farmer worked even more nights and nights on his scraps, plus to corvee (on the collective farm) during the day.

                        crying of Yaroslavna.
                        That is, you say that for the entire period from 1922 to 1991 there is not a year when the citizens of the USSR lived better than the subjects of the Republic of Ingushetia of the 1917 model?

                        Yes

                        This is generally a clinic already.
                        In short:
                        1. until 1960, they were catching up on food, clothing, housing (they finally caught up).
                        2. According to demographics-complete collapse- from beginning to end.
                        3. Complete alcoholization of the population.
                        4. For freedoms, zero.
                        5. Destroyed Russian village
                        6. A torn country.

                        1) Your favorite report is chewed to you. There is nowhere else to chew. If you continue with this mantra with obstinacy worthy of a donkey or a ram, you can put an end to you as a sane interlocutor.
                        2) Collapse is the birth rate of the Republic of Ingushetia when administered as in the Republic of Ingushetia. And what disaster this would lead to (if he had remained the same), thank God we will not know. And by the way, your favorite dumpster www.demoscope.ru nevertheless ventured to write that the turning point in the birth rate had occurred since 1906 and beyond - generations of daughters began to reproduce daughters less than generations of mothers.
                        3) Yaroslavna's lament, the income from the state wine operation and from drinking to the budget was more than under the USSR. Figures to give or sama? Consumption even in the most drinkers of 1980-85 was less than or equal to that in 80% of developed countries in the same years, easily verified by any collection of "Trade in the USSR". Although the problem of consuming spirits was.
                        4) Yaroslavna's cry, only the presence of the mechanism of an imperative mandate makes all "the most democratic countries of our time" think
                        5) complete isolation from reality
                        6) and you won’t prove in any way that without the USSR after 1917, the same thing would not have happened that had happened through no fault of the USSR after 1991. But there are reasons for this to happen.
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 10 October 2019 10: 09
                        -2
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Who destroyed what?

                        NEP destroyed.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Do you even try to understand what you are pulling out of the text.

                        WHAT is "pulled out"? It is clearly written to you: there is not enough Soviet kcal for a person. Few. How else can you write something ?! And your ridiculous TODAY 2000-2500 kcal is in no way sufficient for THAT needs.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        On the contrary, it is clearly written, but you always ignore it:
                        the data presented ... show that the consumption of high-quality food products - vegetables and melons, meat and lard, milk and dairy products, eggs and sugar, has significantly increased in working and peasant families, compared with the pre-revolutionary period.

                        Meat, fat, eggs, LESS 1913
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        The share of proteins, fats and calories of animal origin is lower, and not lower in general.

                        Do you understand RUSSIAN? AGAIN:
                        в food ration the population of the USSR COMPLETELY underrepresented foods containing proteins, fats, vitamins A and C, i.e. vegetables and melons, fruits and berries, and animal products.
                        all products.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        And apparently you decided that in RI this was better with this? And I and Klepikov say that it is worse by 26,6% (20 / 15,8) for calories of animal origin and 29,7% (38 / 29,3) for proteins of animal origin.

                        You are not an authority for me. Like Klepikov.
                        RI-3000 kcal, RSFSR-2834 kcal. Disgrace ......
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Another proof that you know nothing about statistical calculus. Because even a person trying to learn something about statistics at the top would not have written what you wrote.
                        Because the gender and age composition is already taken into account by correcting coefficients based on scientific norms of consumption for different ages. And for pre-revolutionary times (for example, according to the methodology of Herzenstein) and for post-revolutionary statistics. What, by the way, is also mentioned in the report - if you tried to figure out what you were reading, you would see for yourself.

                        Do not write nonsense: all kcal are displayed on the average consumption of the average soul. Naturally, the structure of consumption for the dying old population of the USSR was changing: for the elderly, other products.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        This is generally a clinic already.

                        Phiii ...
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        1) Your favorite report is chewed to you. There is nowhere else to chew. If you continue with this mantra with obstinacy worthy of a donkey or a ram, you can put an end to you as a sane interlocutor.

                        What about you-sane? belay
                        Full collapse on all indicators. And mind you, it's FORTY YEARS OLD!
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        2) Collapse is the birth rate of the Republic of Ingushetia when administered as in the Republic of Ingushetia. And what disaster this would lead to (if he had remained the same), thank God we will not know. And by the way, your favorite dumpster www.demoscope.ru nevertheless ventured to write that the turning point in the birth rate had occurred since 1906 and beyond - generations of daughters began to reproduce daughters less than generations of mothers.

                        Collapse is the Russian cross is YOUR achievement.
                        The demoscope, unlike the Bolshevik slop agitation, directly writes that NONE GENERATION, which entered adulthood since 1928, DID NOT REPLAY itself.
                        plus-Great Abortion killing -the first place for them-YOUR.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Yaroslavna's lament, the income from the state wine operation and from drinking to the budget was more than under the USSR. Figures to give or sama? Consumption even in the most drinkers of 1980-85 was less than or equal to that in 80% of developed countries in the same years, easily verified by any collection of "Trade in the USSR". Although the problem of consuming spirits was.

                        Magazine "Young Communist" - Help you.
                        RI is the most NOT DRINKING country in Europe.
                        In the USSR, they ate EVERYTHING, especially the consumption of women increased especially nightmare
                        and children.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        Yaroslavna's cry, only the presence of the mechanism of an imperative mandate makes all the "most democratic countries of our time" think

                        fool
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        complete isolation from reality

                        fool 1985 g_ million ha arable land, meadows, pastures only in NON-EARTHLAND-overgrown with forest, there are half a million EMPTY railway houses and minus 60 villages.
                        Quote: Nefarious skeptic
                        and you won’t prove in any way that without the USSR after 1917 the same thing would not have happened that had happened through no fault of the USSR after 1991. But there are reasons for this to happen.

                        Before you, it was NOT, with YOU, it became.
                        What else is needed?

                        Reduction of Russia MINUS TEN CRIMEA a YEAR!

                        PS in the WINDOW take a look: the Russian Cross and the borders of the 17th century are YOUR achievements.

                        PS 2 Notice, I do NOT impose discussions on you. This is constantly done by YOU.

                        So spare me yours:
                        worthy donkey or ram, continue this mantra - on you as on sane interlocutor
                        .


          4. LON
            LON 4 October 2019 09: 41
            +11
            Quote: Vladimir16
            Tens of millions killed.

            Look do not choke on the pleasure of lying.
          5. Sergey1987
            Sergey1987 4 October 2019 09: 43
            -10
            Quote: Vladimir16
            This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.

            And right away the Communists zoomed in on you. Well, they always sculpt cons for the truth, but in fact they have nothing to say.
            1. solzh
              solzh 4 October 2019 09: 57
              +9
              Quote: Sergey1987
              Quote: Vladimir16
              This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.

              And right away the Communists zoomed in on you. Well, they always sculpt cons for the truth, but in fact they have nothing to say.

              In fact, every Gebelsad-Western whitewasher tired of commentary is tired of commenting.
              1. Sergey1987
                Sergey1987 4 October 2019 15: 02
                -2
                Quote: solzh
                In fact, every Gebelsad-Western whitewasher tired of commentary is tired of commenting.

                Another proof of my words. In fact, there is nothing to answer like you. Your communists divided the united Russian people, but then you destroyed the USSR.
                1. solzh
                  solzh 4 October 2019 16: 05
                  +4
                  Quote: Sergey1987
                  Another proof of my words. In fact, there is nothing to answer like you.

                  It would be something to answer, nothing to answer. In fact, nobody says anything new from anti-Russian and anti-Soviet propaganda. Everything repeats the old tales invented by the losers by the whites and Goebbels, who have long been refuted, but there are some individuals who still believe in that lie and repeat it as a mantra.
                  Quote: Sergey1987
                  Your communists divided the united Russian people, but then you destroyed the USSR.

                  It is human nature to err and err. I hope you understand this in a modern way and find the true reason, as well as the culprits of the collapse of the USSR, and you will not blindly repeat anti-people liberal propaganda.
                  1. Sergey1987
                    Sergey1987 5 October 2019 12: 50
                    0
                    Quote: solzh
                    In fact, nobody says anything new from anti-Russian and anti-Soviet propaganda.

                    Is everything normal with your head? Where did you find anti-Russian propaganda in my words? Anti-Russian policies such as you communists carried out, dividing the Russian people into pseudo republics and taking a lot of land from Russia. And now you still babble that it turns out we are engaged in anti-Russian propaganda.
                    I am not an anti-communist and would like the USSR not to fall apart, but to carry out reforms following the example of the PRC. But just because of such whiners and talkers of the Communists like you, he fell apart.
                    1. solzh
                      solzh 5 October 2019 12: 56
                      0
                      Quote: Sergey1987
                      Is everything normal with your head? Where did you find anti-Russian propaganda in my words?

                      Where in my comment I said about you that you are conducting anti-Russian propaganda?
                      Quote: Sergey1987
                      Anti-Russian policies such as you communists carried out, dividing the Russian people into pseudo republics and taking a lot of land from Russia. And now you still babble that it turns out we are engaged in anti-Russian propaganda.
                      I am not an anti-communist and would like the USSR not to fall apart, but to carry out reforms following the example of the PRC. But just because of such whiners and talkers of the Communists like you, he fell apart.

                      I will answer you with your own words:
                      Quote: Sergey1987
                      Is everything normal with your head?
                      1. Sergey1987
                        Sergey1987 5 October 2019 15: 59
                        0
                        Quote: solzh
                        Where in my comment I said about you that you are conducting anti-Russian propaganda?

                        Quote: solzh
                        In fact, nobody says anything new from anti-Russian and anti-Soviet propaganda. Everything is repeated by old tales invented by losers

                        You are sure to see a doctor.
                      2. solzh
                        solzh 5 October 2019 16: 50
                        0
                        Once again I ask, where did I say that you say anti-Russian propaganda in the excerpt from my commentary you quoted? It says: "... NOBODY ..." If I wrote about you, I would have written that it is YOU and so on in the text. Where does it say that you are saying this? Treat dear. I consider the dialogue with you closed. You as an opponent have become uninteresting to me hi
              2. TAMBU
                TAMBU 4 October 2019 19: 59
                +2
                we must not be lazy and work with the masses ... what to do if you have been duped for so many years ... you need to work!))
            2. axiles100682
              axiles100682 4 October 2019 12: 44
              +8
              I’m not a communist and I’ve never been, but I put a minus. I can explain why, in accordance with my worldview. 1. The empire was heading for collapse Nicholas 2 ala Gorbachev. 2. The emperor was overthrown not by Lenin, but by Nicholas’s inner circle. 3. liberals who speak beautifully but do not do nifiga. 4. I personally, not being a communist, believe that Lenin still saved the country from complete resettlement into many principalities. And managed to return most of the lands of RI, except Poland and Finland. And Stalin returned even what he missed "sanctimonious" Nikolai Kuritsy and even the port of Artur.
              1. Sergey1987
                Sergey1987 4 October 2019 17: 19
                -1
                Quote: axiles100682
                I’m not a communist and never been, but I set a minus. I can explain why, in accordance with my worldview. 1. The empire was tending to collapse Nikolai 2 ala Gorbachev

                I am not a monarchist and completely agree that Nikolay 2 is to blame for the collapse of the empire.
                Quote: axiles100682
                2. It was not Lenin who overthrew the emperor, but Nikolai's inner circle.

                I agree too.
                Quote: axiles100682
                3. The interim government is a bunch of liberals who speak beautifully but don't do anything.

                But I partially agree on this, because there were almost no liberals.
                Quote: axiles100682
                4. I personally, not being a communist, believe that Lenin still saved the country from complete resettlement to many principalities.

                And Nikolay 2 RI would not plunge into the First World War, certainly there would be no millions of victims, no collapse. But it’s not clear what the hell he brought us there, but for people like Lenin this was all that was needed. And if he also gave Stolypin reform, then RI would have been preserved and the economy built. Give the 20 State years of peace, internal and external, and you will not recognize the current Russia.
                Quote: axiles100682
                And they managed to return most of the lands of RI, except for Poland and Finland. And Stalin even returned what the "sanctimonious" Nikolai Kuritsa and even the port of Arthur had missed.

                Yes. But there was nothing to lose. And the essence of the matter is that it was under Lenin and Stalin that artificial borders were created, which became the embryo of the future collapse. It was they who created that system of government that led to the collapse.
                1. axiles100682
                  axiles100682 4 October 2019 17: 53
                  +2
                  I used the word liberal because for me the word liberal is deciphered in the best way as a demogog, in the worst a teller of the worst. When all these Socialist Revolutionaries, the Mensheviks, the Cadets, etc., had to do their favorite thing for liberals, boltology and demagogy. Dumb and stupid Nikolai began to manifest itself long before the PMV. It showed itself in all its glory even in Russian-Japanese. Yes, the creation of the republics was definitely a time bomb. But with the parade of sovereignties that started, I still thought it was difficult to find another way out that would again dinit together.
                  1. Sergey1987
                    Sergey1987 5 October 2019 12: 32
                    0
                    Quote: axiles100682
                    I used the word liberal because for me the word liberal is deciphered in the best way as a demogog, in the worst a teller is a tramp. When all these Social Revolutionaries, the Mensheviks, the Cadets, etc., were engaged in the favorite occupation of the liberals, boltology and demagogy.

                    I totally agree.
                    Quote: axiles100682
                    Yes, for sure, the creation of the republics was a time bomb. But with the parade of sovereignties that began, I still thought it was difficult to find another way out to combine everything into a single whole again.

                    It was not the creation of the republics that united everything into a single whole, but weapons. Therefore, I believe that this was a big mistake for the Communists. The borders themselves amaze me especially. What .... all the Black Sea region, Donbass and Slobozhanshchina entered the Ukrainian SSR ?! BSSR is generally clowning. Northern Kazakhstan was still Russian under Peter 1. There are many examples.
          6. Den717
            Den717 4 October 2019 09: 50
            +12
            Quote: Vladimir16
            That you communists brainwashed?

            You then have them (brains) crystal clear without any raid of doubt and knowledge of history and other things ... Civil war does not begin without dividing society into hateful parts of the population. Was it Lenin who was so sick of the peasants that they went to burn their landowners? You will be a little inspired by the system of relations in Russia at that time. History is a science, it must first be studied, and then discussed.
            1. Squelcher
              Squelcher 4 October 2019 11: 05
              -1
              ... Great Russians cannot “defend the fatherland” otherwise than wanting defeat in any war against tsarism; “The slogan of“ peace ”is incorrect, the slogan should be the transformation of a national war into a civil war”; “The least evil would be the defeat of the tsarist monarchy and its troops.
              (Lenin V.I. Complete collection of works. T.26 S. 108-109, 6; Lenin collection. T.2 S.195)
              1. Den717
                Den717 4 October 2019 11: 32
                +5
                Quote: Squelcher
                the slogan should be turning a national war into a civil war

                Do you read Lenin? Then delve deeper into his theory of the revolutionary situation .... Jerky quotes out of context cost nothing, they are only misleading.
          7. ork_333
            ork_333 4 October 2019 09: 52
            +11
            With your "holy" war against the communists, you are now trying to brainwash everyone present here. What happened, it happened and everyone here remembers it, but we must not forget that it was during the times of the communists you hated, our country broke the Nazis. And, by the way, it is you who begin to "doggie" and at the same time urge "to live together".
            1. Alex Justice
              Alex Justice 4 October 2019 11: 47
              -12
              What happened, it was, and everyone here remembers this, but we must not forget that it was precisely in the days of the Communists you hated that our country broke the Nazis.

              Without communists, the country would have broken the Nazis faster and without terrible losses.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 4 October 2019 12: 42
                -12
                Quote: Alex Justice
                What happened, it was, and everyone here remembers this, but we must not forget that it was precisely in the days of the Communists you hated that our country broke the Nazis.

                Without communists, the country would have broken the Nazis faster and without terrible losses.

                Without them, WWII would simply NOT exist, because a non-Bolshevik Russia, a participant in Versailles, simply would not let Germany arm herself again NEVER.
              2. TAMBU
                TAMBU 4 October 2019 20: 02
                +3
                yes ... about the same as in the First World War or in the Russian-Japanese ...
          8. PROXOR
            PROXOR 4 October 2019 09: 57
            +4
            In 1991 the year was the same again.
          9. qQQQ
            qQQQ 4 October 2019 09: 58
            +11
            Quote: Vladimir16
            This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.
            As a result of his armed seizure of power, a civil war broke out in our country.
            Tens of millions killed.
            Millions in immigration.
            The country is in poverty.

            Learn the materiel. Lenin picked up what was left of the Romanov dynasty and the February revolution. The civil war broke out thanks to the warm support of the West of exactly the same pretenders to power.
            1. mikh-korsakov
              mikh-korsakov 4 October 2019 10: 45
              +8
              Reply Vladimir16. I quote him: As a result of his armed seizure of power, a civil war broke out in our country.
              Tens of millions killed.
              Millions in immigration.
              The country is in poverty.

              1. On the armed seizure of power. Until 1917, the country fought a war for three years, which led to the loss of several million people. The cause of this war was by no means Lenin; the war was not at all domestic. Then someone lamented that Russia as a result of the war did not receive Constantinople. Let us ask ourselves whether Constantinople was needed by the common people. The interests of this war were alien to the people - and Lenin understood this very well. As a result of the war 1914 - 1918 years. the loss of male population was much higher than as a result of the civil war.
              2. As a result of the February revolution, when inept talker-liberals came to power in the country, order collapsed, arson of estates began, and the collapse of the transport system. The Bolsheviks simply picked up the power and began to do exactly what today's supporters are calling for about the selection of property by "a handful of Putin's close associates," including those mainly from foreign owners. Exactly this initiated civil war - the loss in which is much less than the tens of millions that you write about. Not millions, but tens of thousands went into emigration, many of them, for example, Gorky, Kuprin, then returned, no need to blame that they did not know what was going on in the USSR, but because they saw real achievements, despite the hostile encirclement and blockade.
              1. Sergey1987
                Sergey1987 4 October 2019 11: 58
                0
                I look like the facts distort.
                Dead and missing:
                General Staff 3.10.1917 - 775000
                Data from the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1925 - 855000
                Calculations of N.N. Golovin 1939 - 1300000
                For all reasons 1670000
                As a result of the civil war:
                Total killed and died of wounds - 2 500 000
                Died as a result of terror - 2 000 000
                Died of hunger and epidemics - 6 000 000
                Total dead - 10 500 000
                Emigrated - 2 000 000
                Total Losses - 12 500 000
                So what are you sculpting here? The saints are writhing.
                1. mikh-korsakov
                  mikh-korsakov 4 October 2019 12: 41
                  +4
                  Sergey! The data you took from Wikipedia. Wikipedia is a garbage dump, but I will try to object to you with the same weapon. Further on the same Wikipedia was written. According to Western sources, by the time of leaving the war, the total losses of the Russian imperial army amounted to 1,7 million killed and died from wounds; 4,95 million wounded and 2,5 million prisoners of war [5]

                  The historian Volkov cited data that the proportion of men mobilized in Russia to the total number of men aged 15 — 49 years was 39%, while for every thousand mobilized there were 115 killed and died, respectively, for every thousand men aged 15 — 49 years, Russia lost 45 people, and losses in terms of every thousand inhabitants of Russia amounted to 11 people [1].
                  1. mikh-korsakov
                    mikh-korsakov 4 October 2019 12: 56
                    +3
                    Sergei! On the losses of the Red Army in the Civil War. I quote. https://historicaldis.ru/blog/43725950548/LYUDSKIE-POTERI-KRASNOY-ARMII-ZA-VREMYA-GRAZHDANSKOY-VOYNYI-I-IN?nr=1&utm_referrer=mirtesen.ru In determining the number of losses among soldiers and commanders of the Red Army in the civil war, there are large differences in different literary sources. So, in modern encyclopedias ("Great Soviet Encyclopedia", "Soviet Historical Encyclopedia", the encyclopedia "Civil War and Military Intervention in the USSR"), the same number of dead servicemen is given - about one million people [200].

                    The famous Soviet researcher B. Ts. Urlanis in the book “Wars and Population of Europe” gives other figures: about 125 thousand people were killed at the front, about 300 thousand people died in the army and in military districts [201] The total number of killed and dead amounted to 425 thousand people. This is approximately two times less than the loss figure given in the encyclopedias mentioned above.

                    A lot of contradictions are also contained in the statistical materials of the central organs of the Red Army, summarizing data on the military losses of personnel in the civil war. For example, according to the calculations of the Mobilization Directorate of the RVSR Field Headquarters, the number of killed soldiers and commanders in December 1920 amounted to 85 343 people, wounded - 502 016 people. [202]. It was based on the calculations of the Mobilization Department that made judgments about tens of thousands. Because. I don’t believe engaged people, and because I’m sure that it’s impossible to separate the death toll from the number of deaths at the front, for example, from typhus or flu. In particular, my grandfather in 1920 was the head of the evacuation hospital in the Red Army and died from a Spanish woman. But then, in Europe, millions died of the flu. Is Lenin too guilty?
                    1. Sergey1987
                      Sergey1987 4 October 2019 18: 08
                      -2
                      Quote: mikh-korsakov
                      Is Lenin too guilty?

                      You look at any data, even the USSR, even the western ones. The number is not much different. I did not count the dead of the Red Army and the White Guards separately. The fact remains. In the civil war, much more died. And how Lenin may not be to blame for those killed if he is one of those who started the civil war.
          10. Petrograd
            Petrograd 4 October 2019 13: 16
            +2
            Quote: Vladimir16
            This is the Ulyanov nicknamed Lenin divided the Russian Empire, our homeland, into parts.

            If you really hate him that you write Lenin, but not Lenin, change your name - "Vladimir" - namesake to Lenin ... wink
          11. bayard
            bayard 4 October 2019 15: 39
            +3
            Quote: Vladimir16
            As a result of his armed seizure of power, a civil war broke out in our country.
            Tens of millions killed.
            Millions in immigration.
            The country is in poverty.

            You Vladimir, you probably forgot about the fact that the October coup (as the Bolsheviks themselves called it) was a coup \ the February revolution was a bourgeois one, when the bourgeoisie overthrew the tsar and "zapanuvali". The truth is not long. And the Empire began to fall apart thanks to their - the February revolution.
            Or do you not know that the October coup itself was not prepared by Lenin at all, but by the Russian General Staff and the head of counterintelligence of the Petrograd military district, Mr. Bonch-Bruevich? And Stalin and Dzerzhinsky were initiated into it, but not Lenin and not Trotsky. It was an attempt to save Russia from final collapse, foreign intervention and civil war. It was not possible to save from the latter, although power passed to the Bolsheviks almost bloodlessly, but it was the Februaryists and the generals associated with them who raised the mutiny and created the "White Movement", the appearance and actions of which plunged the country into a civil war. Moreover, they acted relying on the Entente countries, inviting invaders to our territory and paying for the recognition and support of the Russian territories.
            If whites won in that civil war, our country would not have been on the map for a long time. And the Russian name would most likely be forgotten.
            Half of the officers and most of the generals of the General Staff took the side of the Reds, a third of the entire officer corps (another third did not take part in the conflict at all and either emigrated or simply left).

            Have you heard about General Yudenich? The author of the brilliant Erzurum operation? And one of the leaders of the white movement, advancing with his army on Petrograd from Finland? I studied with his great-grandson at a military university (back in the Soviet Union). He became a Soviet, and then a Russian officer. Therefore, stop picking the old wounds of the civil war - it was a huge tragedy for everyone to the joy of the Anglo-Saxons.

            And Lenin ... One can say thanks to him at least for universal free education ... And for open social elevators.
        2. Voyager
          Voyager 4 October 2019 12: 34
          +2
          VO pulled a phrase out of context in its news ... at the same moment, the GDP condemned repression and the like.
    2. Civil
      Civil 4 October 2019 07: 41
      -16
      Victory is glorious for its results, what remains of them in the 2019 year?
      1. Andrey Chistyakov
        Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 07: 43
        +13
        Quote: Civil
        Victory is glorious for its results, what remains of them in the 2019 year?

        You live.
        1. Varyag71
          Varyag71 4 October 2019 07: 57
          +11
          go to the cemetery and see the results since the collapse of the USSR
          1. Andrey Chistyakov
            Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 07: 57
            -2
            Quote: Varyag71
            go to the cemetery and see the results since the collapse of the USSR

            Poke you like. I don `t need it.
            1. Varyag71
              Varyag71 4 October 2019 08: 29
              +7
              I like, these are people born in the USSR, and who believe that we were deprived of our homeland. And you don’t need it, because your homeland is EP (We eat Russia)
              1. Andrey Chistyakov
                Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 08: 31
                -8
                Quote: Varyag71
                I like, these are people born in the USSR, and who believe that we were deprived of our homeland. And you don’t need it, because your homeland is EP (We eat Russia)

                Fortunately, I am not going to pass pigs with you and I am not going to.
                You will poke them.
                Good luck.
                1. Varyag71
                  Varyag71 4 October 2019 08: 39
                  0
                  look at your importance don't choke, Putin
                  1. Andrey Chistyakov
                    Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 08: 40
                    -6
                    Quote: Varyag71
                    look at your importance don't choke, Putin

                    Doesn't let go? Drink some water.
          2. Xnumx vis
            Xnumx vis 4 October 2019 08: 23
            -14
            Quote: Varyag71
            go to the cemetery and see the results since the collapse of the USSR

            Maybe it's worth taking a look at the grave plates in the cemetery from the beginning of the 1917 year to the 60 years !! Millions of people were ruined by the guiding and dominating party of the country ........ And then again the party elite of the USSR betrayed the people of the USSR and laid millions of citizens in 90 at the beginning of 2000 ... Or is Putin to blame again! ?? fellow
            1. Varyag71
              Varyag71 4 October 2019 08: 30
              -4
              Perhaps every morning you pray for the GDP icon?
              1. Vladimir16
                Vladimir16 4 October 2019 09: 32
                -3
                The Varyag, the trouble is that the party nomenclature (now they are called by officials) puts a bolt on Putin and on all the other inhabitants of Russia.
                And removing Putin, you will not receive improvements in your life. hi
                1. Varyag71
                  Varyag71 4 October 2019 11: 56
                  +5
                  That's right. Putin is just a screen. But who is behind him is another question.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 4 October 2019 09: 26
              -9
              Quote: 30 vis
              Maybe it's worth taking a look at the grave plates in the cemetery from the beginning of the 1917 year to the 60 years !!

              what tablets are in memory of many millions starving in the USSR? About the hundreds of thousands executed during the 1 year 1937-38? About the dead in peasant links, etc.?

              None. And nowhere to come .... As if there were not many millions of our compatriots and fellow citizens ....

              On the topic: The President, unfortunately, did not say about the resolution of the European Parliament from 17 Sept., in which the Pact of the Republic of Moldova was named the cause of the war.
              THAT SHOULD BE CONDEMNED publicly and at all levels, EVERYWHERE !!

              Talk about the capture of Austria, Czechoslovakia (Germany and Poland), Manchuria, China, it was all BEFORE the Pact!
            3. mikh-korsakov
              mikh-korsakov 4 October 2019 11: 42
              +2
              Both Yuri and Chistyakov - Enough bickering you victorious eagles. Bicker - do not bicker - you will not return the past. And the former always has two sides - light and dark. Is it really not clear to people, as I understand it, adults? In spite of everyone, I will quote V.I. Lenin's "One step of a real movement is more important than a dozen programs." But the old man is right. Note to Putin.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 4 October 2019 12: 45
                -3
                Quote: mikh-korsakov
                "One step of real movement is more important than a dozen programs"

                "Measure seven times, cut one" -not familiar?
              2. Xnumx vis
                Xnumx vis 4 October 2019 15: 35
                0
                Quote: mikh-korsakov
                And Yuri, and Chistyakov - stop bickering eagles to you victorious. Bicker - do not bicker - you cannot return the past. And the past always has two sides - light and dark.

                All this is correct, I agree with you ..! But the last century in the history of our country was the bloodiest .. Wars, revolutions, all kinds of perestroika and collectivization, industrial and liberal revolutions ... So many victims ..., losses. Millions of those who died of starvation and grief, unborn children! I want a calm, creative life for our country, for people ..
          3. To be or not to be
            To be or not to be 4 October 2019 09: 37
            +6
            If you go, then to the Piskaryovskoye Memorial Cemetery
            . "In the mass graves lie 420 thousand inhabitants of Leningrad, who died from hunger, cold, disease, bombing and shelling, as well as 70 thousand soldiers - defenders of Leningrad. There are about 6 thousand individual military graves on the memorial" https: // pmemorial .ru / memorial
            And the West still had the audacity to say that it was white and fluffy, and that the USSR had begun the war
            There they (all of Europe) on a tour and let them stand in the mournful silence of history .. They still do not understand. What they have done and are doing ..
            In Europe, they are trying to revive fascism. First, drop the charges against him for World War II. to whitewash and again "nach osten" (Natisk to the East, Drang nach Osten (German Drang nach Osten, literally means "Onslaught to the East") Create a crisis (migrants. economic decline. discontent of the masses). to raise nationalist tendencies and right-wing parties and forward ... "White Tiger" (a symbol of fascism and war, Shakhnazarov, film) has not gone anywhere .. he is still in the swamp... While in the fog. He is waiting in the wings ...
    3. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 4 October 2019 07: 59
      +13
      Quote: parusnik
      .Drape Lenin's mausoleum on May 9 ...

      In schools and other educational institutions, including universities) in Russia, introduce the lesson "History of the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945" and be sure!
    4. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 4 October 2019 08: 02
      +3
      Quote: parusnik

      Quote: parusnik
      According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.
      .... Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on 9 May ...
      I think when GDP kneels before the red banner of Victory, then the process will go. And he will call Stalin the savior of mankind.
      For this, it is necessary to open archives more actively, to publish data on the cooperation of European governments with the Nazis, and that not only German units and formations invaded the USSR, but also almost half Europe.
      Doesn't GDP know history? Almost all of Europe pressed against us "to establish a new order". The fact that England, Greece and Yugoslavia were not there does not change the fact.
      1. Loess
        Loess 4 October 2019 08: 29
        +3
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        GDP doesn't know history? Almost all of Europe has come to us to "establish a new order". The fact that England, Greece and Yugoslavia were not there does not change the fact.

        And also there were no Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland ... The fact that representatives of these states were present in the German army "does not change the fact." Otherwise, the Great Patriotic War will have to be called civil for the reason that representatives of the USSR fought on the side of Germany, but in fact they were just traitors.
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 4 October 2019 09: 45
          0
          Quote: Less
          Quote: Mavrikiy
          GDP doesn't know history? Almost all of Europe has come to us to "establish a new order". The fact that England, Greece and Yugoslavia were not there does not change the fact.

          And also there were no Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland ... The fact that representatives of these states were present in the German army "does not change the fact." Otherwise, the Great Patriotic War will have to be called civil for the reason that representatives of the USSR fought on the side of Germany, but in fact they were just traitors.

          I understand that school curricula are now curtailed, at least take an interest in the Blue Division, the Dutch Legion, the Flemish Legion of the Fox Tail, and the 5 SS Viking Division was formed on their basis.
          In November 1941, the legion arrived in the vicinity of Leningrad as part of the 2 SS motorized brigade. In fierce battles, the Legion suffered huge losses, despite its preparation for battles in extreme conditions. Until 31 on May 1943, he fought on the Eastern Front, but after the Germans began to be squeezed, the legion was disbanded, and the soldiers were transferred to a new unit - the 6-th SS volunteer assault brigade "Langemark", on the basis of which the 27-I appeared SS division “Langemark”.
          The Belgians from the SS regiment Nordwest.
          And in general, go to VO and read "Foreign Volunteer Legions and SS Corps on the Eastern Front" dated March 20, 2013. In addition, these are not traitors and if we did not have Swiss units, this does not mean that she did not participate in the war on Hitler's side, supplying accessories for weapons. There is nothing to say about Sweden. The same and the USA, an ally, supplied Germany, through the neutrals with everything necessary, so that all of EuropeIt’s still put it mildly.
          Otherwise, the Great Patriotic War will have to be called civilian because the representatives of the USSR fought on the side of Germany,
          Well done, agreed, take a pie from the shelf.
          1. Loess
            Loess 4 October 2019 10: 03
            0
            Quote: Less
            The fact that representatives of these states were present in the German army "does not change the fact."

            Does this phrase tell you anything?
            The countries I listed did not declare war on the USSR, just as they were not in an alliance with the Reich. And, accordingly, they did not "stick" to us, as you say so. And individual citizens of these countries "pushed on".

            Quote: Mavrikiy
            Well done, agreed, take a pie from the shelf.

            In addition to rudeness, there are no arguments, lover of bakery products?


            PS
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            And generally go to VO and read

            "Don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you where you should go."
        2. Shaitan_by
          Shaitan_by 4 October 2019 10: 59
          0
          And also there was no Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland

          These countries officially remained neutral, but actively cooperated with the Germans, supplying them with resources and providing territory for bases. Factories and plants were actively working, supplying products.
          This is how to say that cooks, doctors, workers in factories, etc. did not fight, and did not contribute to the Victory.
          1. Loess
            Loess 4 October 2019 11: 11
            +3
            Quote: Shaitan_by
            These countries officially remained neutral
            Not certainly in that way.
            Most of these countries did not observe neutrality, but was fully or partially occupied by Germany and was at war with it (with Germany).
            Quote: Shaitan_by
            however, they actively cooperated with the Germans, supplying them with resources and providing territory for bases.

            This does not negate the fact that the armies of these countries did not participate in the war against the USSR and were not in a state of war with the USSR. Therefore, to reproach Putin with ignorance of history (in this context), at least, is not appropriate. Or then it is necessary to reproach the Soviet leadership, which did not declare these countries aggressors. But in some minds this fact does not fit.
        3. Alex Justice
          Alex Justice 4 October 2019 11: 59
          +1
          And also there was no Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland ...

          Goebels with enthusiasm in his memoirs wrote that the French at 20 percent build submarines for Germany faster than the Germans. The Czechs produced excellent equipment for the Germans, tried their best.
          Only Franco was the smartest, as he could maintain neutrality, did not allow to drag the country into the war, despite the pressure of Germany.
          Watch the dock series World War II-Day after day.
        4. Edmond dantes
          Edmond dantes 6 October 2019 16: 29
          0
          The Spaniards were French, Norwegians, Belgians and Poles too.
      2. Sergey1987
        Sergey1987 4 October 2019 10: 06
        -3
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        I think when GDP kneels before the red banner of Victory, then the process will go. And he will call Stalin the savior of mankind.

        Why should he bow his knee before the banner of victory? Why are these pathos gestures? And not Stalin won the war, but the Soviet people.
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        GDP doesn't know history? Almost all of Europe has come to us to "establish a new order". The fact that England, Greece and Yugoslavia were not there does not change the fact.

        And where did you get the idea that he does not know history?
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 4 October 2019 10: 29
          +5
          YES, yes, Hitler lost the war, not the German people. The defeat is an orphan, and the victory is the daughter of the regiment. The war was won by Stalin - the brain of the country, for he foresaw the war, created not only industry and the military-industrial complex, but also educated the people, gave him education, ideology, shook up the organization of the CPSU (b) - the backbone of the country. The people are muscles, strength, but not organized and, by definition, cannot win the war by itself ..
          1. Sergey1987
            Sergey1987 4 October 2019 14: 56
            -5
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            YES, yes, Hitler lost the war, not the German people.

            Have I written such a thing somewhere? Germany lost the war.
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            Stalin won the war - the country's brain

            War is won not by one person, but by the state.
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            for he foresaw the war, created not only industry and the military-industrial complex, but also educated the people, gave him education, ideology

            He did not create an ideology. He did industrialization of course, but at what cost. And about the fact that he foresaw the war, you certainly smiled. It is good that he foresaw it, but the sense of his foresight was that the Germans had reached Moscow and captured almost the entire European part ?! The sense of this prediction if then millions died.
            Quote: Mavrikiy
            shook up the organization of the CPSU (b) - the backbone structure of the country.

            laughing I’m directly surprised how the rest of the world lives without this skeleton.
            I am normal towards Stalin, but I can’t understand your crazy, blind fanaticism from him. He carried out industrialization, but the standard of living of the people was very low, the average life expectancy of 42 years (some are called less). Hunger, poverty and repression. You yourself would hardly want to live at that time.
            However, I am not saying that he needs to destroy monuments or not to erect them. For me, let Volgograd be renamed to Stalingrad. He played a role in history, both positive and negative.
          2. Alex Justice
            Alex Justice 4 October 2019 16: 23
            -5
            Stalin won the war - the country's brain

            And he ruined millions with Zhukov, Shapochnikov, Tributs, Konev, etc. Two years learned to fight. Poland, France, Finland did not teach them anything.
            Pirov's victory.
          3. parusnik
            parusnik 4 October 2019 19: 02
            +3
            Mavrikiy... The head of state talks about the falsification of history and the fight against it .. And the drapery of the mausoleum is not falsification? I remember how they commented on the Victory parades in Soviet times, they always stressed that military units pass by the mausoleum, to which the banners of defeated Nazi Germany flew , have you heard about it now? There is a lot of talk in the country about the falsification of history by the West, but we ourselves are falsifying our history. The drapery of the mausoleum is an example. And there are many of them, as for the Soviet period .. "Dostochka" Mannerheim, monuments to White Czechs - "liberators" of Russia , memorials to the invaders, the period of the Patriotic War ... etc ... Are we outraged by the West and at the same time pursuing a pro-Western policy? Pay attention to the many comments of those who consider themselves patriots ... They do not speak about falsification of history in Russia , they have the guilty Lenin, Stalin, the command, not Hitler with capitalist Europe, but they are evil ... They made a revolution, liquidated not literacy, carried out industrialization ju, won the war, if they hadn't, Hitler himself would have shot himself back in the 30s ... they don't write about this directly ... but ... the underlying text is visible ... hi
            1. Sergey1987
              Sergey1987 5 October 2019 14: 01
              -1
              Quote: parusnik
              .And the drapery of the mausoleum is not falsification?

              You Communists by the ears pull anything just to criticize the power.
              Media fraud is the hoax of information or the deliberate dissemination of misinformation in social media and traditional media with the aim of misleading in order to obtain financial or political benefits.
              And the falsification of the mausoleum?
              Quote: parusnik
              Resented by the West and at the same time, pursuing a pro-Western policy?

              In what? Example.
              Quote: parusnik
              They do not talk about falsification of history in Russia, they have the guilty Lenin, Stalin, the command, not Hitler with capitalist Europe, but they are sinister

              What is the falsification? And where does Lenin to the Second World War?
        2. KERMET
          KERMET 4 October 2019 10: 55
          -2
          Well, if he says that WWII began at 4 in the morning of 22 June ...
          1. Loess
            Loess 4 October 2019 11: 30
            +1
            Quote: KERMET
            Well, if he says that WWII began at 4 in the morning of 22 June ..

            Where did you find this? Can I quote?
            1. KERMET
              KERMET 4 October 2019 19: 57
              0
              Where did you find it? Yes, in the article you are commenting on. Especially for you:
              One of the topics covered is the increasingly common allegations that the blame for unleashing World War II supposedly equally lies with Hitler and Stalin. In particular, with such an interpretation of events, a month ago, they made a little in Poland, where events were held in memory of the beginning WWII

              from the same article above:
              From a speech by Vladimir Putin at the Valdai Forum:
              As if at 4 in the morning of June 22, Soviet troops crossed the border. On this day, it was German troops who invaded the USSR.
    5. RUSS
      RUSS 4 October 2019 08: 49
      +15
      The article modestly kept silent about Putin's complete quote about Stalin, about the black page of history.
      "
      I do not want to characterize the Stalin regime now. We all know what is connected with the repressions, with the camps, with the losses among our people, our citizens during these repressions. This is a black page in the history of our country, ”the Russian leader said during a discussion at the XVI annual meeting of the Valdai Club
      1. Stas157
        Stas157 4 October 2019 09: 25
        0
        Quote: RUSS
        "
        I do not want to characterize now to the Stalin regime. ... It black page in the history of our country, ”said the Russian leader

        This is the height of cynicism. Putin to Stalin's heights, how ... Let him first do for the people how much Stalin did, and only then we will listen to his criticism. A black page in history is rather a characteristic of Putin’s regime.
        1. sniperino
          sniperino 4 October 2019 10: 06
          0
          Quote: Stas157
          Let him first do for the people how much Stalin did, and only then we will listen to his criticism.
          Stalin destroyed those who weakened and undermined power in the USSR on the eve of the most terrible war, rightly considering them to be enemies of the people, and not just their personal ones. If Putin begins this process, then personally you, IMHO, have zero chances to then listen to his criticism.
          1. Stas157
            Stas157 4 October 2019 10: 20
            0
            Quote: sniperino
            If Putin begins this process, then personally you, IMHO, have zero chances to then listen to his criticism.

            Stalin repressed the elite, not the common people. Ordinary people were not afraid of him (he did not flinch at night from the black funnels, as they imagine), but on the contrary he loved. Putin is the opposite. Exalts the elite, and humiliates the people.
            1. sniperino
              sniperino 4 October 2019 10: 37
              +2
              Quote: Stas157
              Stalin repressed the elite
              Do not expect to hide behind the people. Labor discipline and responsibility before the law were tightened at all levels, since after Trotsky the syndicalists were "smeared" across the entire vertical of state power, and they, you know, are inclined towards anarchism. But it got in an adult way and the writing fraternity, who did not follow the "bazaar", and even simple gouges. Without this, it was impossible to mobilize the country in such a way during the war years.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 4 October 2019 12: 13
                0
                Quote: sniperino
                Do not hope to hide behind the people.

                Why do you get personal? Does the glory of Kisa Golovan give rest? And stop pouring chernukha on Stalin, portray him as a bloody tyrant.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 4 October 2019 12: 27
                  -3
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Why do you get personal? Does the glory of Kisa Golovan give rest?

                  good laughing good

                  Stas license plate, I’ll soon dream of you ... in nightmares laughing
                  1. Stas157
                    Stas157 4 October 2019 12: 45
                    +2
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    Stas license plate, I’ll soon dream of you ... in nightmares

                    Here is Kitty, here it is! I'm afraid to disappoint your expectations, Kees, but it’s more about you! You follow and react almost to every my comment. But I don’t care about you.
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 4 October 2019 12: 48
                      -5
                      Quote: Stas157
                      You follow and react almost to every my comment

                      Let's just say - at the moment you are one of my favorite toys. Like calling himself Svarog, by the way.

                      Quote: Stas157
                      But I don’t care about you

                      I believe yes laughing
                      1. Stas157
                        Stas157 4 October 2019 12: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        You are currently one of my favorite toys.

                        The more you dream, the more ridiculous you look.
                2. sniperino
                  sniperino 4 October 2019 22: 43
                  +1
                  Quote: Stas157
                  Why do you get personal?
                  In the above quote there is no indication of a person, there is above indicated your action, for which during Stalin's time they could have been attracted, because here the word "hide" is used, which refers to your weak argumentation.
            2. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 4 October 2019 12: 20
              +1
              Stalin repressed the elite, not the common people.

              Stas, it's good to lie, get out of the way. Tell my ancestors.
              1. Stas157
                Stas157 4 October 2019 12: 27
                +4
                Quote: Okolotochny
                Tell my ancestors.

                So for sure, for the cause! I don’t know your ancestors, but I was inquiring from my ancestors in detail, so I didn’t touch anyone from my father’s or mother’s side, nor from anyone of my many relatives. In different regions! No one was afraid. And when Stalin died everyone was crying. And so it was in reality.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 4 October 2019 12: 44
                  -5
                  Quote: Stas157
                  And when Stalin died everyone was crying. And so it really was

                  And when Kim Jong Il died - everyone also cried ... Stasik, what a baby you are laughing
                  1. Stas157
                    Stas157 4 October 2019 12: 50
                    +3
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    Stasik, what a baby you are

                    All your awkward attempts to hurt ultimately turn against you. Poisonous bile overwhelms your no longer young body and hits the patient himself. Has pancreatitis been cured at last? Do not regret yourself.
                    1. Cat man null
                      Cat man null 4 October 2019 12: 59
                      -8
                      Quote: Stas157
                      your awkward attempts to hurt eventually turn against you

                      Oh no ... I'm funny. Here it’s like dad already, but mind, like a baby laughing

                      Quote: Stas157
                      Has pancreatitis been cured at last?

                      What for? I am friends with him laughing
                2. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny 4 October 2019 12: 54
                  -1
                  I didn’t drink vodka and I won’t.
                  So for sure
                  [b] [/ b]!
                  I do not know your ancestors

                  I would give you ... for this. Ask for Blackboards of Shame. As a result, my mother's older sister died, a year old - for the cause, Svarog? Cousins ​​and sister. Their common grave is still called "Children's". For business, Svarog? Where do you come from? By the way, Stalin also put people like you, stoned, against the wall. And he did the right thing.
                  1. Stas157
                    Stas157 4 October 2019 13: 00
                    +2
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    I didn’t drink vodka and I won’t.

                    Your comment, wise guy?
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    Stas, it's good to lie, get out of the way. Tell my ancestors.

                    Learn to speak politely. No need to be upset.
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    I would give you ... for it.

                    So give it. Why are you throwing a blizzard in vain?
                    1. Okolotochny
                      Okolotochny 4 October 2019 13: 05
                      -3
                      Why are you throwing a blizzard in vain?

                      Sidelets, or what? On a hair dryer you’re bottering like a knowing one. According to my facts, is there anything to argue with? For artificial hunger in the villages of the Kuban and Don? No? Therefore, stasikisvarogi, sit and be silent.
                  2. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 4 October 2019 13: 01
                    -5
                    Quote: Okolotochny
                    Svarog

                    Alex, hi

                    Svarog is not a stasik. And the stasik is not Svarog. Although, I agree, at times they look like disgrace yes

                    For good advice, please accept:

                    1. Okolotochny
                      Okolotochny 4 October 2019 13: 04
                      -4
                      Novel, two in one, Two of the casket. The same ...., well, you understand, only a side view. drinks
                      1. Stas157
                        Stas157 4 October 2019 13: 08
                        +2
                        So they found each other. You two talk there. Share your experiences.
                      2. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 4 October 2019 13: 11
                        -5
                        Merged? Stasik? If you don’t know the essence of the issue, then do not meddle with your slogans and chants. At the stadium, it’s better to scream and sip beer.
                      3. Stas157
                        Stas157 4 October 2019 13: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Okolotochny
                        Merged? Stasik? If you don’t know the essence of the issue, then do not meddle with your slogans and chants. At the stadium, it’s better to scream and sip beer.

                        Hush. Hero. Why so excited in public. Come on all the claims in PM.
                      4. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 4 October 2019 13: 26
                        -3
                        What can you talk about with the ignoramus?
                      5. Leopold
                        Leopold 4 October 2019 19: 39
                        +3
                        Alexey hi About the weather, about women, about neighbors? Nope? About the opponent (what a two-digit word) you can by the ear and into the sun. Why in the quiet of offices? Then it began - here and the dot above the "I" should be put.
        2. Alex Justice
          Alex Justice 4 October 2019 16: 44
          -5
          Let him first do for the people how much Stalin did

          What did he do for the people? Communism built for himself and his retinue. I drove the rest into slavery. Destroyed the elite. Zhdanov, during the blockade, did not lose a single kilogram in weight of his 82kg.
          My grandfather was shot for a teahouse at a crossroads. The rich were considered. Parents had to escape the poor at night. Dear people were in the village. The villagers warned that they would be arrested tomorrow, like fists. They had more per cow than the rest. The rest were proud that they had more on a stool than their neighbors. The winners became poor, the vanquished soon became prosperous, rich countries. This is the result of socialism.
          1. TAMBU
            TAMBU 4 October 2019 20: 13
            +1
            As practice shows, if you delve into similar matters in more detail, the motive and corpus delicti are also sought out, but of course there were excesses ... but it is obvious to deny - you either work as a hiring story too painfully, or just as stupid as a cork, sorry .. .
      2. Sergey1987
        Sergey1987 4 October 2019 10: 16
        -1
        Quote: RUSS
        The article modestly kept silent about Putin's complete quote about Stalin, about the black page of history.

        What does Putin have to do with the Stalinist regime and the fact that they are trying to blame Stalin at the beginning of the 2 world?
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 4 October 2019 11: 05
          +3
          Quote: Sergey1987
          What does Putin have to do with the Stalinist regime and the fact that they are trying to blame Stalin at the beginning of the 2 world?

          Despite the fact that Putin at Valdai in one monologue said about the black page of history under Stalin, but immediately said that Stalin cannot be blamed for inciting war, and the article timidly kept silent about the "black page of history."
          1. Sergey1987
            Sergey1987 4 October 2019 14: 59
            -2
            Quote: RUSS
            Despite the fact that Putin at Valdai in one monologue said about the black page of history under Stalin, but immediately said that Stalin cannot be blamed for inciting war, and the article timidly kept silent about the "black page of history."

            Do you read poorly? One does not apply to the other. I also have an unequivocal attitude towards the Stalinist regime, but this does not mean that I consider Stalin guilty at the beginning of the 2 world. Anyone can hate Stalin, but do not consider him guilty at the beginning of the 2-th World.
    6. Evil echo
      Evil echo 4 October 2019 09: 18
      +2
      And where does Lenin and Victory Day?
    7. Leshy1975
      Leshy1975 4 October 2019 09: 39
      0
      Quote: parusnik
      According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.
      .... Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on 9 May ...

      I'll add "my 2 kopecks". Or rather, of course, not our own, but Konstantin Semin. With whose opinion I agree. I myself have expressed a similar opinion more than once, but it is better to listen to Semin:
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 4 October 2019 19: 18
        0
        Hmm ... it seems that Z. Kosmodemyanskaya authorities want to expel from the Komsomol ... laughing.... And Semin is right ...
    8. Ivan Ivanov
      Ivan Ivanov 4 October 2019 10: 34
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      .... Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on 9 May ...

      Such is the biopodium of power. Thanks at least in this case are objective. Still would stop for Katyn repent
    9. datur
      datur 4 October 2019 23: 10
      +1
      CHO LENIN IS ATTITUDE TO WAR
  2. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 4 October 2019 07: 23
    +4
    statements about the outbreak of war by Joseph Stalin - this is the height of cynicism.
    Well, finally a reaction to the European vile falsifications!
    1. Spartanez300
      Spartanez300 4 October 2019 07: 48
      +8
      Such a statement speaks of the complete moral degradation of the West, and it would not be surprising if in the near future they would write in school textbooks that it was the USSR who was responsible for the Second World War and that Stalin bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear bombs. Although many illiterate people already talk about it. And correctly written in the article, if we ourselves do not convey the truth to humanity, then in the final analysis the overwhelming majority will be confident in the guilt of the Russian people.
      1. lucul
        lucul 4 October 2019 08: 08
        +3
        Such a statement speaks of the complete moral degradation of the West, and it would not be surprising if in the near future they would write in school textbooks that it was the USSR who was responsible for the Second World War and that Stalin bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear bombs.

        Pfff .... it will be so.
        Yes, we have all of our official history turned inside out, starting with Norman theory, because we have adopted the western version of our history. Or do you think in vain Lomonosov in the history of Milera beat his face?
        So it will be with the history of the Second World War ....
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 4 October 2019 08: 05
      +6
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      Well, finally a reaction to the European vile falsifications!

      Before blaming everything on Stalin and the USSR, it would be better for the whole world to declare the Munich conspiracy, who signed it, who started the war and did not bring the blame on the healthy. This can not be called cynicism, from meanness!
    3. Mikhail Drabkin
      Mikhail Drabkin 4 October 2019 08: 23
      +2
      You write uncle lee
      Well, finally a reaction to the European vile falsifications.

      -Their infamy is a reflection of their beliefs. You can’t beat the facts of conviction - you don’t care about the faith of knowledge.
      —- Therefore, these streamlined words are a sign of powerlessness: “.. Methods of counteracting these processes are necessary, otherwise Russia will encounter such a stream ... which ultimately ... will lead at all .... For this it is necessary more actively ... "publish data .. but almost half of Europe .."
      -These predictions, words - soap bubbles, will not diminish the vileness and beliefs of “partners”: beliefs, faith ... - facts, knowledge, nothing.
      -At least the peoples of Russia should not lose ideas in the war, otherwise we will get clones of “Koli from Urengoy,” and discussions like “it would have been better to surrender Leningrad ...”.
      —- For this, someone, at least General Kartopolov from the new Heads of PUR, should declare, or explain if there is not enough brass, you yourself know where, what The ideological, or at least ideological, war with Russia continues. Aloud, military briefly, accurately and intelligibly.
      —- “They do what you (Russia) allow them to do” - according to Kedmi.
      —- Therefore, one cannot be weak in any of the confrontations with the West. There are no unimportant directions in the new Cold War. And where is the GDP of 2007 of the year in the Munich speech ... or at the time of the return of Crimea to Russia ...?
    4. 210ox
      210ox 4 October 2019 08: 24
      +4
      Vladimir hi I have a proposal (though not feasible in the current reality). The state holiday-Birthday of Joseph Vissarionovich in December ... You can even cancel one of the "young holidays" ..
    5. Prisoner
      Prisoner 4 October 2019 09: 08
      +3
      And the beginning of these falsifications was laid in our country, when Nikita Khrushchev started a campaign to discredit Stalin. "Whoever spits on his past falls into his own future." Here we are!
  3. Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 4 October 2019 07: 26
    +9
    GDP, we must start with the fact that to stop calling some comrades who are not comrades to us "partners", but to call potential opponents, and better enemies. Then you can conduct a dialogue who unleashed what.
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 4 October 2019 07: 32
      +2
      Quote: Dmitry Potapov
      GDP, we must start with the fact that to stop calling some comrades who are not comrades to us "partners", but to call potential opponents, and better enemies. Then you can conduct a dialogue who unleashed what.

      to hell with "partners", first you need to sit on your own people for people.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  4. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 4 October 2019 07: 26
    +7
    It was read somewhere that allegedly Hitler said that if he had not started the war in 1941, then Stalin supposedly attacked him poor thing later - 100500%. So Hiley Likely was not born at Skripal, but much earlier.
    1. NKT
      NKT 4 October 2019 07: 39
      +6
      Rezun promotes this idea
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 4 October 2019 07: 49
        +2
        Yes, sort of like reading from him ... Allegedly ...
      2. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 4 October 2019 08: 09
        +4
        Quote: NKT
        Rezun promotes this idea

        If Rezun does not "bark like a yard dog," then his owners will quickly return to Russia, and here he is "White Swan".
    2. Avior
      Avior 4 October 2019 07: 47
      0
      Do you think that Stalin did not have the slightest plans and intentions to fight fascism?
      As for the war, Hitler began it in 1939.
      So recorded in the official results of the Second World War, the decisions of the Potsdam Conference and the Nuremberg Tribunal.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Avior
          Avior 4 October 2019 07: 56
          -7
          You cannot look at plans in fact, they are plans, not facts.
          To argue that Stalin did not have plans for an attack on Germany just because Rezun wrote the opposite means confirming that Nazi Germany and Nazism itself were quite happy with the Soviet leadership.
          And if Hitler did not attack the USSR, there would be no struggle against the Nazis on the part of the USSR.
          But the fighters with Rezun somehow do not think about this, how unsightly they represent the USSR and Stalin personally.
          1. Andrey Chistyakov
            Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 08: 00
            +2
            "You can't actually look at the plans"
            If in fact you can’t look, then what can you talk about?
            About speculation? What for?
            1. Avior
              Avior 4 October 2019 08: 02
              -6
              Plans and actual events are not the same thing.
              How it actually was, we all know, but what were the plans, is another matter.
              1. Andrey Chistyakov
                Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 08: 03
                +4
                Quote: Avior
                Plans and actual events are not the same thing.
                How it actually was, we all know, but what were the plans, is another matter.

                Well, at least it dawned that the plans and facts are not the same thing. This makes me happy.
                1. Avior
                  Avior 4 October 2019 09: 44
                  0
                  Glad you got it.
                  I wrote about this initially.
              2. Evil echo
                Evil echo 4 October 2019 09: 23
                +3
                I have plans to sleep with a neighbor, but actually sleep with my wife. Should I be considered not true?
                1. Avior
                  Avior 4 October 2019 21: 46
                  0
                  If you don’t share your plans with your wife, you can be considered prudent smile
                  1. Evil echo
                    Evil echo 4 October 2019 23: 18
                    0
                    And who shared his plans?
                    1. Avior
                      Avior 4 October 2019 23: 37
                      0
                      You asked yourself. I wrote about you.
                      And if the question interests you more broadly, then the analogy in your opinion does not correspond to the situation.
          2. Alex Justice
            Alex Justice 4 October 2019 17: 11
            +1
            The archives are still closed. There is something to hide from the people.
      2. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 4 October 2019 07: 56
        0
        Quote: Avior
        Do you think that Stalin did not have the slightest plans and intentions to fight fascism?

        Well, there generally thoughts of the World Revolution were in the air. How real they were realizable is another question. And on any - it was necessary to fight for, in fact, the very existence of the young State. The experience of the 1918 - 1921 interventions is proof of this.
      3. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 4 October 2019 08: 10
        0
        Quote: Avior
        As for the war, Hitler began it in 1939.

        What do you think?
        1. Avior
          Avior 4 October 2019 08: 57
          0
          Think, don’t think, there are official results of the Second World War, enshrined in the decisions of the Potsdam Conference. And only not very smart people try to revise them, thinking that such a revision is possible only in a direction favorable to them.
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 4 October 2019 09: 51
            0
            Quote: Avior
            And only not very smart people try to revise them

            Well, but the "Anschluss" of Austria and the "Munich Agreement", and then the capture of Czechoslovakia, this is not the beginning of WWII. Of course, this is just not beneficial to many. But fact is fact. I'm not even saying that the war was already raging in full swing in the Far East. So who benefits from revision, you get it?
            1. Avior
              Avior 4 October 2019 11: 07
              0
              The revision is beneficial to those who are not satisfied with the official results of the Second World War.
              For the USSR, and therefore Russia, the results recorded in the Potsdam Conference and other documents are very beneficial, and most importantly, they are universally recognized.
              And trying to rock them and undermine their universality, thinking that any revision of them is possible only in a convenient way is not very smart behavior.
      4. Leshy1975
        Leshy1975 4 October 2019 09: 34
        +1
        Quote: Avior
        Do you think that Stalin did not have the slightest plans and intentions to fight fascism?
        As for the war, Hitler began it in 1939.
        So recorded in the official results of the Second World War, the decisions of the Potsdam Conference and the Nuremberg Tribunal.

        There were plans how not to be. I will just remind those who may have already forgotten and those who may not know. And very sensible plans. Do not allow this brown plague to grow to a pan-European scale (and further). There was a proposal to provide military assistance to Czechoslovakia. But since Since the USSR did not have a common border with Czechoslovakia, it was necessary to have permission from Poland for the passage of troops. And Poland, already having a peace treaty with Germany, as well as already "drooling" on the territory of the USSR, and also making plans to act in this case together with Germany, categorically opposed it. Well, everyone paid for it. First, Poland paid for its sharply anti-Soviet sentiment, and then all the other "guarantors" of European security, for its excessive cleverness.

        However, the same French (and the whole of Western Europe, except for the UK), with such a decision, globally did not lose much, because it was the USSR that paid the price of victory for them. Unless, of course, we do not consider them as "victims" of service in divisions like Wallonia or Nordland.

        PS Stalin, this is a political figure. Indeed, how could there be no plans if the leadership of the USSR was aware of where everything was going. hi
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 4 October 2019 10: 17
          +3
          Quote: Leshy1975
          Unless, of course, they are "victims" of service in divisions like Wallonia or Nordland.
          You did not add a little, but only in the Waffen SS troops from 37 divisions, only 12 were "purely" German, and the rest were national of their "satellites". Only Greece was not in their composition, and the Czechs formed a company of 70 people who immediately deserted. So all of Europe must answer, and it doesn't matter that it did not sit with the Nazis in the dock at the Nyurberg trial.
          1. Leshy1975
            Leshy1975 4 October 2019 10: 51
            +2
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Quote: Leshy1975
            Unless, of course, they are "victims" of service in divisions like Wallonia or Nordland.
            You did not add a little, but only in the Waffen SS troops from 37 divisions, only 12 were "purely" German, and the rest were national of their "satellites". Only Greece was not in their composition, and the Czechs formed a company of 70 people who immediately deserted. So all of Europe must answer, and it doesn't matter that it did not sit with the Nazis in the dock at the Nyurberg trial.

            This is so, thanks. hi
      5. NKT
        NKT 4 October 2019 11: 11
        +2
        Do you think that Stalin did not have the slightest plans and intentions to fight fascism?
        As for the war, Hitler began it in 1939.
        So recorded in the official results of the Second World War, the decisions of the Potsdam Conference and the Nuremberg Tribunal.


        Of course, there were plans. Otherwise, what is the first management of GSh necessary for?
    3. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 07: 48
      0
      Quote: Vasyan1971
      It was read somewhere that allegedly Hitler said that if he had not started the war in 1941, then Stalin supposedly attacked him poor thing later - 100500%. So Hiley Likely was not born at Skripal, but much earlier.

      This is someone "Suvorov" - he was the traitor V. Rezun wrote.
      1. Vasyan1971
        Vasyan1971 4 October 2019 07: 50
        +2
        Quote: Andrey Chistyakov
        This is someone "Suvorov" - he was the traitor V. Rezun wrote.

        Well, Duc, I also say: "Allegedly".
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 4 October 2019 07: 27
    +10
    Who most actively support (and cultivate) the point of view of “equal responsibility? Poles! And they don’t feel their guilt in unleashing WWII? Maybe that’s why they yapped loudest?
    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 4 October 2019 08: 12
      0
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Poles! And they don’t feel their guilt in unleashing WWII? Maybe that's why they are yapping the loudest?

      Everything is like in a children's joke about how someone farted wrong.
  6. eagle owl
    eagle owl 4 October 2019 07: 28
    +3

    Great wrestlers with fascism
    1. Vasyan1971
      Vasyan1971 4 October 2019 08: 02
      +2
      Quote: Uhu
      Great wrestlers with fascism

      It is what it is...

  7. Livonetc
    Livonetc 4 October 2019 07: 29
    +4
    Yes, cynicism.
    Practical cynicism allows the Anglo-Saxons to push their practical interests.
    And we are extremely tolerant and diplomatic.
    And that instead of affectionate reproaches would indicate to the partner always and everywhere the obvious truth.
    It consists in the fact that over the past 100 years the most bloody and inhuman crimes, along with German nationalism, were committed by the Anglo-Saxons.
    And they continue to make them.
    This nuclear bombing of cities and the use of chemical weapons and the killing of thousands of people through drones (estimated more than 2x thousand), the ongoing invasion of sovereign states under far-fetched pretexts.
    Isn't it time to call a spade a spade everywhere and always?
    Then, quite possibly, a compromise will be reached regarding the distortions of history.
    1. bessmertniy
      bessmertniy 4 October 2019 08: 20
      +2
      Dead Poles destroyed by the Nazis no longer misinterpret stories. negative
  8. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 4 October 2019 07: 30
    +3
    Well, Mr. Putin, the beginning to burn?
    Soon we will begin to restore the monuments to Stalin. And rightly so.
    1. Andrey Chistyakov
      Andrey Chistyakov 4 October 2019 07: 44
      +2
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      Well, Mr. Putin, the beginning to burn?
      Soon we will begin to restore the monuments to Stalin. And rightly so.

      Really Putin himself felled monuments to Stalin ?!
      1. dauria
        dauria 4 October 2019 09: 45
        +3
        Really Putin himself felled monuments to Stalin ?!


        I didn't, but Stalin's regime - " This is a black page in the history of our country.“These are the words of Putin, at the same meeting of the club in the same speech.
        So - "or cowards, or a cross"
    2. Loess
      Loess 4 October 2019 07: 51
      +5
      Quote: Angelo Provolone
      Well, Mr. Putin, the beginning to burn?
      Soon we will begin to restore the monuments to Stalin.

      They were not destroyed under Putin. And near the Kremlin wall, a monument to Stalin as it stood and still stands.
  9. Fantazer911
    Fantazer911 4 October 2019 07: 31
    +2
    As if at 4 in the morning of June 22, Soviet troops crossed the border. On this day, it was German troops who invaded the USSR.

    Not only in Poland I think so, but also half of Europe, all tolerants are in power, Poland is a country of ambition + American influence and zombies will lead not only to a census of history, but also to complete disregard for the history itself, as well as complete atrafia of the brain and sent to the slaughter!
    1. Avior
      Avior 4 October 2019 07: 43
      +3
      In fact, World War II began two years earlier, in 1939.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 4 October 2019 07: 53
        -2
        So what? and we entered it later. Does it somehow change what is said?
  10. Shuttle
    Shuttle 4 October 2019 07: 34
    +9
    Not only German troops. Someone else should be reminded.
    And yes, it’s high time to study the history of the Soviet period, and not creeping desovetization. And then in our country, if-of-urengoy themselves begin to climb from all the cracks. Yes, they still Svanidzy and other Mukhomoskovtsy croak. Let's open the archives already!
  11. rocket757
    rocket757 4 October 2019 07: 35
    +1
    Betrayal often starts small!
    They, the current upper, for another. Their power, not immediately power, concern for all ....
    Indicator, they are the true enemies of Russia, its people, they call "partners", and even themselves, some, at least "claw", at least "beak" there are hooked ..... what then to talk to them?
  12. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 4 October 2019 07: 37
    +2
    They will soon say that we attacked VERMAHT and the entire 3 REICH ... the truth is in our territory, but who cares about this hour? They attacked for sure, because they just pins them there.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 4 October 2019 08: 00
      +2
      And poor Adik was brought to suicide! Slavic barbarians!
  13. Thrifty
    Thrifty 4 October 2019 07: 38
    +3
    Vladimir Vladimirovich, who or what exactly is interfering with your levers of power
    to prevent mass media of the country of clever statements, and on
    the wounds of Russia the appearance of frankly lying TV shows, programs and pseudo-artistic films that distort the events of the time when Stalin was in power?
  14. aszzz888
    aszzz888 4 October 2019 07: 39
    0

    According to Vladimir Putin, making statements about the outbreak of war by Joseph Stalin is the height of cynicism.

    You can't say more precisely. The frenzied propaganda of the West "draws" more and more blasphemous and false facts. This is what the golden calf is doing, and trying to reshape history! angry
    1. Leshy1975
      Leshy1975 4 October 2019 09: 49
      +1
      Quote: aszzz888

      According to Vladimir Putin, making statements about the outbreak of war by Joseph Stalin is the height of cynicism.

      You can't say more precisely. The frenzied propaganda of the West "draws" more and more blasphemous and false facts. This is what the golden calf is doing, and trying to reshape history! angry

      And the same height of cynicism, and maybe even more, is to allocate state funds of the Russian Federation for crap about the Second World War, like the "movie" "4 days in May".
      Putin’s words are correct, but with business he’s somehow not very good.
      Words diverge from deeds. hi
      1. aszzz888
        aszzz888 4 October 2019 10: 08
        -1
        Leshy1975 Today, 09:49 ... allocate state funds of the Russian Federation for chernukha about the Second World War, like the "movie" "4 days in May"

        Are you sure that "state funds of the Russian Federation" were spent on this film? .... grabs and we have any liberalism ... hi
        1. Leshy1975
          Leshy1975 4 October 2019 10: 31
          0
          Quote: aszzz888
          Leshy1975 Today, 09:49 ... allocate state funds of the Russian Federation for chernukha about the Second World War, like the "movie" "4 days in May"

          Are you sure that "state funds of the Russian Federation" were spent on this film? .... grabs and we have any liberalism ... hi

          Unfortunately yes, sure. I already had a polemic on this topic. Money is allocated (of course, not all, but part of the budget of the film) from the side - the Federal Agency for Culture and Cinematography of Russia.
          Here's another example, on this topic: the film Bastards (source kinoanons.ru) - "The following fact gives a special piquancy to this story: the financing of the film in the amount of $ 700000 was carried out from public funds."

          PS Unfortunately, there are many such examples. hi
  15. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 4 October 2019 07: 46
    +2
    The level of education in the country needs to be raised, then perhaps it would not occur to any of the young people to say that Lenin is the son of Stalin. And they will know more about the Great Patriotic War and who Suvorov and Kutuzov are.
  16. Boris55
    Boris55 4 October 2019 07: 48
    -1
    Methods to counter these processes are needed.

    At the end of the 80, at Leningrad State University, on the instructions of the Central Committee of the CPSU, a methodology was developed to counteract Western ideology. But unfortunately, by the time the work was ready, the traitor Gorbachev was already at the helm of the country, and this work was not in demand.

    So that the work of many scientists would not be wasted, they decided to publish it for general access. Today this work is known under the name "The Concept of Public Safety" (COB), set out in the book "Dead Water", which was at one time banned from distribution, but after, at the request of the court, chapters on the role of Jewry in building a modern civilization, it, albeit in a truncated form, is available again to everyone.

    Parliamentary hearings on the topic "Concept of Public Safety" were held on November 28, 1995 and were recommended for distribution. The bourgeois, who seized power in the country, in every possible way oppose its spread and make every effort to discredit it.

    1. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 4 October 2019 08: 18
      +6
      Quote: Boris55
      The bourgeoisie, who seized power in the country, in every possible way oppose its spread and make every effort to discredit it.

      Everything fell into place, in the country, the capitalist system, which cannot and should not clean up the country of the victorious proletariat.
  17. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 4 October 2019 07: 49
    +2
    that in Western terminology exclusively the USSR will be called the culprit of the beginning of World War II.
    Wake up. Already in our brains, this is proved with foam at the mouth. angry
  18. comradChe
    comradChe 4 October 2019 07: 58
    -1
    And why did the disrespect not "flashed" with his oslomie? There was nothing in our past for the sake of the "partners" to spit all his shobla! The return went, but such that the whole country cannot wipe the harkotin off!
  19. Amateur
    Amateur 4 October 2019 08: 01
    +8
    According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.

    Poles can't do it. Is it possible to falsify the best friend N.S. Mikhalkov? Is it possible to include Solzhenitsyn's "works" in the school curriculum and rush about with his widow as with a "hand-written bag"?
    Is it possible to finance all kinds of "Stalingrads" and similar films by the Ministry of Culture?
    Patriarch Alexy in 1995 said: "I apologize to the German people for not bringing freedom to him, but another totalitarianism."
    You have to start fighting the falsifications of history with yourself. Then all sorts of "other Poles" will not be able
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 4 October 2019 08: 22
      +5
      Such is this Valdai goat, many-sided - ,,, both ours and yours for a nickel weave, ,,
  20. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 4 October 2019 08: 14
    0
    Quote: Livonetc
    Yes, cynicism.
    Practical cynicism allows the Anglo-Saxons to push their practical interests.

    Meanness! What people from the "big island" have been doing all their lives.
  21. Mcar
    Mcar 4 October 2019 08: 16
    +6
    Putin: statements about the outbreak of war by Stalin-the height of cynicism

    I realized ...

    And hang a rag on Lenin's mausoleum, forbid even on Victory Day the red flags and portraits of the commander-in-chief of that victory - what is this? Not the height of cynicism?

    One of the topics covered is the increasingly common allegations that the blame for unleashing the Second World War allegedly lies equally with Hitler and Stalin. In particular, with such an interpretation of events, a month ago, they made a little back in Poland, where events were held in memory of the beginning of WWII.

    We play here, we don’t play here ... But here we wrapped the fish.

    At first he explained to the Poles why Stalin had shot Polish officers in Katyn (although it had been proved a hundred times that the Nazis had shot the Poles), and now - the height of cynicism?


    According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.

    Yeah ... This only applies to war, or what?

    Putin:
    - What we produced was nobody’s useless, because nobody bought our galoshes, except for the Africans, who had to walk in them on the hot sand ...

    1. Boris55
      Boris55 4 October 2019 08: 28
      -2
      Quote: McAr
      Putin:
      - What we produced was nobody’s useless, because nobody bought our galoshes, except for the Africans, who had to walk in them on the hot sand ...

      But is he really so wrong? The Trotskyists, who seized power after the assassination of Stalin, did everything to destroy the country's economy, including over-planning up to the number of galoshes produced.

      Under Stalin:



      When Gorbachev:



      And about what just caught on, you are wrong. He always talked about it. Take an example from the Chinese and their assessment of the activities of Mao - 70% positive, 30% negative. Any person is not perfect including and ruler.
      1. Mcar
        Mcar 4 October 2019 08: 50
        +4
        Quote: Boris55
        But is he really so wrong? The Trotskyists, who seized power after the assassination of Stalin, did everything to destroy the country's economy, including over-planning up to the number of galoshes produced.

        I agree with those who "got hold of power" and "destroy the economy", but not with the rest.

        "Over-planning" is a myth. Harmful. And you, like me once, like most people in his captivity. Free yourself.
        Any capitalist monopoly has a plan. Without it, it is unthinkable. And not only a business plan, but also a production plan. Without a plan, even toothpicks are impossible to produce. All this is planned by capitalism. At all times and nations, society “consciously planned,” and the reforms of Solon (after the uprisings of slaves), and the reforms of Bismarck, and the introduction of the Witte gold ruble, and the Marshall plan, and the vast majority of wars came from planning, and not from which ruler got under the tail of a reins. 1-I world - this is the law, not the night thoughts of the Kaiser. Of course, not the law of collision of billiard balls. But the law. A person generally differs from an animal in that he consciously (and not instinctively) plans his activities.
        This is an excerpt, if curious, further here: https://aftershock.news/?q=node/790964&full

        If any of the American presidents would begin to publicly lament that the welfare of Americans is based on the robbery of other countries, on the destruction of other peoples, starting with Native Americans (Indians) - would he not be right? And why are their presidents not being confirmed in their righteousness? Stupid, probably yes?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 4 October 2019 09: 25
          0
          Quote: McAr
          Any capitalist monopoly has a plan.

          Below is a picture that I collected a long time ago:



          Quote: = McAr
          And why are their presidents not being confirmed in their righteousness? Stupid, probably yes?

          Not presidential candidates are stupid, but voters.
          1. Mcar
            Mcar 4 October 2019 09: 38
            +1
            Quote: Boris55
            Below is a picture that I collected a long time ago:

            Are you an author ?! Only honestly.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 4 October 2019 10: 12
              0
              Quote: McAr
              Are you an author ?! Only honestly.

              Yes, I am the author of the assembly of pictures from the Internet in the interpretation I need.
              This is the last option.
              1. Mcar
                Mcar 4 October 2019 11: 41
                0
                Quote: Boris55
                Yes, I am the author of the assembly of pictures from the Internet in the interpretation I need.

                Well, that's the correct interpretation. It turned out to be a wonderful propaganda material. One thing is not clear - you are the author of such a good agitation and you are talking about "excessive planning". This is strange.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 4 October 2019 11: 59
                  -1
                  Quote: McAr
                  You are talking about "over-planning". This is strange.

                  Everything is good in moderation and any good undertaking can be brought to absurdity.
          2. Mestny
            Mestny 4 October 2019 10: 34
            0
            Quote: Boris55
            Not presidential candidates are stupid, but voters.

            Wrong people?
            Look for another.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 4 October 2019 11: 47
              +1
              Quote: Mestny
              Wrong people? Look for another.

              People are the same everywhere. The possessing power hides management knowledge from him. That is why in all elections a person is discussed, and not what this person offers. People who do not understand the principles of management are not able to understand the consequences of certain proposals in the candidate’s program. It is for this reason that the candidates promise jelly banks and dairy rivers - this is understandable to the people, but what happens if you sell your country for vouchers is incomprehensible to the people at the time of such an administrative maneuver (the consequences of this).
      2. Mestny
        Mestny 4 October 2019 10: 37
        -4
        The above photos are crude ideological manipulation. Under Stalin, such stores could be counted on the fingers of a crippled hand. But they blew from all the irons that it was like that everywhere.
        With this lies have long been sorted out, and you again got this old barrel organ.
    2. Alex Justice
      Alex Justice 4 October 2019 17: 16
      -1
      although it has long been proven a hundred rows that the Nazis shot the Poles

      Someone else believes in it.
      I think Putin and Gorbachev have more information than readers.
      1. Mcar
        Mcar 4 October 2019 17: 49
        0
        Quote: Alex Justice
        Я I think Putin and Gorbachev have more information than readers.

        Do you think? It's good. Not everyone knows how to do this. Now try another skill to master. "Know" is called.

        Katyn meanness:
  22. Tusv
    Tusv 4 October 2019 08: 19
    -2
    I like humoresque from 6 frames. "Now look carefully who attacked you."
    (Alas, this content is feared on this site. Dial yourself in Yandex)
    Can an investigative experiment be made?
  23. Black owerlord
    Black owerlord 4 October 2019 08: 26
    0
    Dust and wino are to blame.
    Also, the iPhone is actively fighting with an eight-hour working day.
    Okay, I’ll go fix the TV-16 brand galosha.
  24. Glory1974
    Glory1974 4 October 2019 08: 33
    +3
    For this, it is necessary to actively open archives, publish data on the cooperation of European governments with the Nazis, and that not only German units and formations, but almost half of Europe invaded the USSR.

    Previously, we had to think about it, but now we are reaping the fruits of our government's tolerance for various hyenas in Europe and not only for them.
    Why is the beginning of the 2 World considered since the German attack on Poland? Because after the war they became our friends and we decided to make them a victim of the aggressor. And the fact that Poland itself was previously an aggressor preferred to forget for the sake of momentary interests.
    Unfortunately, about the same thing is happening in Chechnya. They say only that the Russian troops started the war, but about the fact that the troops introduced in response to the genocide, in fact, they are silent.
    In fact, young people do not know anything about the guilt of Chechens, but only harbored a grudge against the troops. Someday, these silences will play a role, maybe in our lifetime.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. BAI
    BAI 4 October 2019 08: 37
    +3
    Almost the entire current European Union, in one capacity or another, during the war years, fought against the USSR under the banners and leadership of Hitler as part of the 3rd Reich - directly or made weapons against the USSR. Now the EU is a kind of 4 Reich, again led by Germany. Therefore, they need to excuse themselves from the past and place the blame for the war on the USSR. Nothing personal, just politics. And our Foreign Ministry is strenuously looking for "partners" there. They just cannot understand that we have no partners there, only negotiators who are forced against their will (the realities are such) to reckon with Russia.
    1. Loess
      Loess 4 October 2019 08: 59
      -4
      Quote: BAI
      And our Foreign Ministry is strenuously looking for "partners" there. They just can't understand that we don't have partners there, only negotiators,

      I believe that our Foreign Ministry understands who it’s talking to. There just must be at least some decency ...
  27. Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 4 October 2019 08: 49
    +3
    Maybe Putin's words are not fully quoted, but again I did not hear that on June 22, 1941, in the following days, the border was crossed not only by the Germans, but also by ROMANIANS, FINS, DUTCHES, ITALIANS, HUNGARIANS, FRENCHES, etc. - again we are afraid of losing "druzhbanov". And it is necessary to poke these Europeans with a "tolerant mug" more often in the "Hitlerism" supported by them .... maybe it will come !!!!
  28. Stas157
    Stas157 4 October 2019 08: 51
    0
    Limitrofov somewhere you can understand. They have such a life - hanging out between the big powers. Whenever it is nailed to the other side, the old is considered occupation.
  29. Zeev Zeev
    Zeev Zeev 4 October 2019 09: 04
    -8
    The Red Army crossed the border of 17 September 1939 year. At 6 o'clock in the morning.
    1. saveall
      saveall 4 October 2019 09: 27
      +5
      Quote: Zeev Zeev
      The Red Army crossed the border of 17 September 1939 year. At 6 o'clock in the morning.

      Yeah ... And it went all over Europe, burning cities and driving the poor Europeans to concentration camps. We have already believed. Yeah ...
      As a result of the Munich conspiracy against which the USSR and even Germany's ally, Italy, Poland captured Tesinska Selisia. Yes, and threatened the USSR. On 21 on May 1938, the Polish ambassador in Paris, Lukasevich, assured the US ambassador to France Bullitt that Poland would immediately declare war on the USSR if he tried to send troops through Polish territory to help Czechoslovakia. Well, the hyena subsequently got what it deserved by the wort ... And most of all from those with whom it conspired.
      Keep up the good work ... Salute!
      1. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 4 October 2019 11: 13
        -3
        No, in those years it was just Soviet citizens who were driven into concentration camps, even if they became such against their will. First, the NKVD in Western Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic countries of everyone who did not fit into the Soviet system, then the Germans who occupied this territory, all those who did not fit into their "new order", then again the NKVD, who is for the cause, who is for "I lived in the occupied territory, fed the Germans" ... For my family personally, both of the mustachioed were bad and my ancestors suffered from both.
        By the way, about "burning cities". Do not remind, why did the peasants surrender Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya to the Germans?
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny 4 October 2019 12: 23
          +1
          The "mustache" Stalin ended the Holocaust and brought to justice its founders. Do you think you did it in vain?
          1. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 4 October 2019 18: 32
            -3
            The mustachioed Stalin brought Hitler to the point where Hitler had the opportunity to make the Holocaust. And the extradition of German Jews who lived in the USSR into the hands of the Gestapo - this is not "stopped the Holocaust", but "participated". For comparison, the handing over to the Germans of exactly the same political emigrants-Jews (only not dozens, but eight) in Finland almost led to the downfall of the government (during the war, by the way), and Karl Mannerheim personally apologized to the Jews in the synagogue.
        2. saveall
          saveall 4 October 2019 13: 14
          0
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          No, in those years it was just Soviet citizens who were driven into concentration camps, even if they became such against their will. First, the NKVD in Western Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic countries of everyone who did not fit into the Soviet system, then the Germans who occupied this territory, all those who did not fit into their "new order", then again the NKVD, who is for the cause, who is for "I lived in the occupied territory, fed the Germans" ... For my family personally, both of the mustachioed were bad and my ancestors suffered from both.
          By the way, about "burning cities". Do not remind, why did the peasants surrender Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya to the Germans?

          I hope you have enough intelligence to imagine what would happen to Russia, and to the world too, if it was not the "mustache" as you call him who won. If there is enough, then what are we discussing here ... Otherwise, we would most likely not sit and discuss this now, just like many other peoples, who were destined to be completely destroyed in gas chambers. This is the answer to the question of who is to blame for the war and on which side was the evil. We, like many now, live thanks to the victory of the USSR. It's time to remember this if it's so hard to think of it. In my opinion, you are confusing warm with soft ...
          I’m far from whitewashing Stalin, Lenin and other Bolshevik leaders, they did a lot of lawlessness ... But in the end, this Russian communist ideology, along with their fanatical leaders, was digested and humanized by the Russian people with its great culture and innate thirst to mercy and justice, therefore, in the late USSR such atrocities did not exist anymore. And many, including on this forum, are so zealously nostalgic now for just such a USSR, although they themselves may not understand this, because together with nostalgia they pull from there the idols of those times (Lenin, mausoleum, etc. attributes) , for which they desperately cling, thinking that it was they who provided prosperity. But this is a big mistake. It is not a matter of idols, but of people themselves creating history ... in their moral and spiritual qualities. In the people who won that war and then restored the destroyed country, these qualities were at their best, and now ...
          1. Shahno
            Shahno 4 October 2019 13: 23
            +1
            I do not understand. Well, Trotsky would have won.
            As an option. An impudent Russia leads half of Europe. You see that everything would be different.
  30. Vladimir A. Trifonov
    Vladimir A. Trifonov 4 October 2019 09: 33
    +3
    Let him explain this first to "Kalinka", for which Stalin is twice as bad as Hitler.
  31. Archon
    Archon 4 October 2019 09: 41
    +2
    To sue US companies that collaborated with Germany during the war against the USSR, weak?
  32. Faron
    Faron 4 October 2019 10: 07
    +4
    Quote: Vladimir16
    The same Korolev sat on the bunk.
    And you are proud that you found him on the bunk and pulled him out of prison.
    And who drove him there.

    Inefficient work and waste drove him to the bunk. And there his brains quickly reigned. It is the same with millions of "effective business executives" - they are kulaks, they are also the heads of local organized crime groups.

    And Stalin sits, and scribbles at all denunciations, poor thing)
    1. Mestny
      Mestny 4 October 2019 10: 33
      -7
      So all the same denunciations?
      We are all lucky that he did not die there. Pure chance.
      And how many of these Korolevs perished, how many communists rotted.
    2. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 4 October 2019 11: 19
      -4
      Korolev was driven into the bunkers by the system of denunciation created by the USSR by Comrade Stalin and the list of the first shooting category signed by Comrade Stalin personally. Many of Sergei Pavlovich’s neighbors on this list, by the way, were shot.
      1. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 4 October 2019 12: 25
        -1
        the system of denunciation created in the USSR by Comrade Stalin

        Personally, Stalin created, CAM ??? Or were there people before him? Well, tell me, who by nationality were the first leaders of the Cheka and the NKVD? The first leaders of the Red Army? Ideologues of the "Red Terror"? Can you tell or guess yourself?
        I'm from the Cossack region. My ancestors suffered in 30. Do you know who was the ideologist of the DESTRUCTION of the Cossacks? Sverdlov. Will you read it on Wikipedia?
        1. Zeev Zeev
          Zeev Zeev 4 October 2019 13: 16
          -6
          I can remind you that Yakov Sverdlov died in the 1919 year. And since 1929 of the year, after the defeat of the internal party opposition, the USSR was ruled not by Leon Trotsky, but by Joseph Stalin. By the way, the first deportation to the USSR was in 1920, the Cossacks were deported, it was carried out in the Terek region on the proposal of the People's Commissar for Nationalities. Remind who it was?
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny 4 October 2019 13: 17
            0
            It was SVERDLOV who set the trend for repression. Then there were the performers, they went through the "works". And remind the "democratic Georgians" for the People's Commissar. Those whose army you helped to form and modernize. Then, from the T-72s upgraded by you, our soldiers and our citizens were destroyed. Ferstein?
            1. Zeev Zeev
              Zeev Zeev 4 October 2019 18: 36
              -4
              The repression trend is the essence of any dictatorship, and the "dictatorship of the proletariat" is no different in this regard. Is that the scope, which reached its peak under the "wise management" of Mustache.
              1. Okolotochny
                Okolotochny 4 October 2019 21: 01
                0
                And who created both the dictatorship and the "Red Terror"? After all, Putin already reminded of this? Forgot the notorious wagon?
                1. Zeev Zeev
                  Zeev Zeev 5 October 2019 00: 26
                  -2
                  A very interesting country and very interesting people, if one car with 29 political emigrants can turn it inside out wassat
                  By the way, this Putin of yours, who said that 80-85% of the first Soviet government were Jews, what school did he go to? In the first composition of the Council of People's Commissars on October 25, 1917, there was only one Jew: People's Commissar Lev Davidovich Trotsky. In the second composition, which worked from December 1917 to March 1918, there was one more Jews - the People's Commissar of Justice Isaac Steinberg was added. Who strongly clamored with the "Iron Felix" because of the illegal methods of work of the Cheka, and after the signing of the Brest Peace Treaty completely left the Council of People's Commissars. There were no more Jews in either the first, or the second or the third Soviet government.
  33. Mestny
    Mestny 4 October 2019 10: 30
    -2
    Quote: Dead Day
    Oh is, against Solzhenitsyn? But what about the flowers to the monument to the "great writer"?

    And so, that the other half of the skakuas considers him a great writer, unlike your fellow believers.
    Both yours and they are citizens of Russia. the president for those and others, respectively, should act for all.
    But yours does not understand this, you want exceptional power and exclusively your historical truth.
  34. PavelM
    PavelM 4 October 2019 10: 37
    +2
    Quote: "According to the head of state, IT IS NECESSARY TO RESIST THE FALSIFICATION OF HISTORY, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War."
    - Well, he (V. Putin) and cards in his hands! To do this, stop PROMOTING this very falsification in your own country! In particular, immediately stop the defamation of the name and activities of I.V. STALIN. It was the encouragement at the state level of self-pouring mud of Stalin that became the main condition and the start for the start of falsification of the history of the Second World War in the West.
    I’ll skip about the role of Khrushchev,
    but our modern Fifth Column (such as Svanidze, Mlechin, Gozman, Venediktov, Latynina and others, as well as V.R.Solovyev, who joined them) was flooded from the heart and continue to water with impunity the floods of lies of the real creator of the USSR, actually reducing Stalin's activities to the level of Hitler, and the USSR to Nazi Germany. But, after all - more, OUR Ministry of Defense refuses to install a bust (for people's money!) To the Commander-in-Chief
    in the Second World War, Generalisimus I. Stalin on the territory of the House of Officers in Novosibirsk, and OUR President Putin introduces Solzhenitsyn into the school curriculum, allows the distribution of false books of the traitor to the Motherland Rezun, opens the "wailing wall", but did not lay ANY flower on Stalin's grave. And when on Victory Day they close Lenin's mausoleum with plywood - what's this? And Putin's statement that "the USSR did not produce anything except galoshes" ??? What is THIS if not falsification of History?
    And after all this, is Putin accusing the West of cynicism? This is at least ridiculous, but in fact it is the most cynical cynicism!
    Before blaming the West, for a start, you need to install "magic mirrors of truth" in the Kremlin corridors and look there more often.
    The West, slandering the USSR, respects its interests, but whose interests are our modern anti-Stalinists defending? Let's stop SAMI, first of all at the state level, to spit on our History and no one will dare to do this. NOBODY!
    That's the whole recipe.
  35. VeteranVSSSR
    VeteranVSSSR 4 October 2019 10: 42
    0
    Quote: Evil Echo
    I have plans to sleep with a neighbor, but actually sleep with my wife. Should I be considered not true?

    You are a devotee !!!
  36. teron
    teron 4 October 2019 10: 51
    +3
    After the destruction of the USSR, the authorities of the new, democratic Russia called Stalin and his regime criminal, and in general communism is bad. They began to match the statements of Solzhenitsyn and other anti-communists. Foreign partners represented by a number of countries supported our government and our anti-communists: yes, Stalin is a criminal and his regime is criminal and communism is bad. And not only in domestic policy (repression, deportation and "dispossession", "decossackization", "Holodomor", etc.), but also in foreign policy - here and almost an alliance with Hitler's Germany (non-aggression pact), here and the "occupation" of the countries of eastern Europe during the war against the Nazis. Well, communism is so bad that it is possibly worse than Nazism. And if Stalin is a criminal (according to the statements of the Russian politicians themselves), communism is no better (or even worse than Nazism), then it is logical to assume that the USSR was to blame for the outbreak of World War II - troops were brought into Poland (neither context, nor details nobody is interested now). Well, it is clear that the soldiers of the Red Army are also criminals - accomplices of the bloody regime.
    One thing is not clear - what are the representatives of our government dissatisfied with, each year bashfully draping a mausoleum on Red Square on May 9.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. Faron
    Faron 4 October 2019 12: 18
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    There is. to dress, to live (mNXX in the city), as in 2, the Russian people could only by ... 1913m years, i.e. 1950 years just CASED.

    Here, as if in 4, the European part was razed to the ground.
    By 30 m years. Demographic disaster. 1 MV, Civil War. Perhaps they are the cause, not just the Soviet government.
    US - could not decide - they were killed. Or the government did not have support and could not organize the work?
  39. Faron
    Faron 4 October 2019 12: 22
    +1
    Quote: Olgovich
    Under socialism that was built in 1937, the MUCH poorer 1913 of the year lived on food, clothing, housing .: see the Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955.

    Conclusions of the report https://www.proza.ru/2016/02/08/187

    CONCLUSIONS


    1. The nutrition of the population of the USSR is systematically improving, the amount of food consumed is growing, and the nutrition structure is improving. The proportion of high-quality food products — milk, meat, eggs, vegetables, and melons, is increasing in the diet of the population of the USSR. However, the increase in consumption of these products is insufficient. The nutritional quality of the non-agricultural population is higher than that of the agricultural population.

    2. In a number of capitalist countries, the opposite trend is noted - the deterioration in the nutrition of the population. However, according to average per capita norms for the consumption of milk, meat, eggs, sugar and fruits, we are still behind the main capitalist countries.

    3. The norms of actual nutrition of the population of the USSR are lower than the scientific norms for all products except bread products and potatoes. It is necessary to ensure a sharper increase in the diet of the [population] of the USSR of milk and dairy products, meat, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables and melons.

    4. In the USSR in recent years there has been an increase in the consumption of industrial goods by the population of the country. However, for industrial goods, we lag behind the average consumption rates of the main capitalist countries.


    Despite a significant increase in the consumption of industrial goods by the population of the USSR, the level of consumption of manufactured goods, especially by the agricultural population, is insufficient.

    Those. have become better to eat. They did not become hungry.
    But there is still nothing to wear - industry does not satisfy demand. So?
  40. Shahno
    Shahno 4 October 2019 12: 45
    0
    Here, by a miraculous combination of circumstances, Israel is on guard of this issue in the Western world. So, everything will be okay ..
    Well, otherwise. They will have to face our understanding. That for all, only losses.
  41. O_s_c_a_R
    O_s_c_a_R 4 October 2019 12: 57
    +2
    We thought in vain that we had won the Great Patriotic War. In history not
    there are final victories.
    PS not mine
  42. Wolf
    Wolf 4 October 2019 13: 29
    +2
    The danger of falsification of stories is very great !!! Falsification of history is an old technology of brainwashing people. She is actively applying the latest 1.500let !!! Od Sazdania Vatican Catholic Church. Even today, all of us in schools are learning a FALSE BACKGROUND !!! There is a lot of example, IVAN GREAT (terrible) is one important place. Also the creation of NPR. Rkmunsk nation before the offensive Masonic EU with Napoleon on the forehead, etc. They managed to do it many times and now they will strongly attack with falsifications. V.V. Putin is right in saying that it’s hard to overestimate this danger !!! If they manage to manage Ruski, the people will be recognized as a villain worse than Hitler’s soldier, and after 2 of the century Ruse will be called GROZNY as Ivan, who must be ruthlessly destroyed! Putin says well it is necessary to declassify the document from the Second World War and to name all the European side Kotor sent divisions to the eastern front. NACISAM was BOLEST expanded throughout Europe, a massive brainwashing of the people in EU at which people were mobilized throughout Europe for the war against the Russian people. Something seems to be doing today with a PASSWORD ABOUT THE RUSSIAN THREAT!
    It is necessary to aggressively publish the truth about the Second World War, as well as the cleverness of passwords about the Russian threat! The main thing is to declare to the people of Europe why Russia needs the territory of Europe, Russia has no reason to add new European territories, the largest country with empty Siberia and the east has no logical reason to fight for European territory, and today Russia will not export the revolution and it is not needed!
    The threat is very large and dangerous with the falsification of history !!!


    Live were!
  43. Roman070280
    Roman070280 4 October 2019 13: 57
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir16
    The Bolsheviks did not offer anything for the development of Russia.
    Kerensky began the collapse of the country.
    And the same bureaucrats helped him in this as now.
    Greed and thirst for power drives such people.
    Ulyanov is even worse. He decided to put experiments on the country. Over hundreds of millions of people.
    Ulyanov was pulled out of Europe and stuck in Russia for complete collapse and anticipating a civil war.
    The man with the nickname "Lenin" has fulfilled his mission - the civil war claimed tens of millions of lives. The country was in ruins.
    .


    A fig ce jokes ..))
    Man has provided powerful social elevators specifically for people ..
    Greed and power are about modern "rulers" .. but definitely not about Lenin / Stalin ..

    And experiments on the country were started by a man with the nickname "drunk" .. and continues the man with a nickname for which they will be banned here ..
  44. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 4 October 2019 16: 15
    +1
    Finally it dawned that there was a new propaganda battle about the Second World War.
    What is happening in the EU on this topic shows that the history lesson should be hammered over these over 70 years. And the one who does not remember the lessons of history again makes the same mistakes.
  45. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 4 October 2019 16: 22
    +1
    Quote: Wolf
    The danger of falsification of stories is very great !!! Falsification of history is an old technology of brainwashing people.

    The danger of falsification of history is very great primarily for the falsifiers themselves.
  46. Tomich3
    Tomich3 4 October 2019 16: 48
    +1
    "To do this, you need to actively open the archives." Well, open up, what's the matter then?
  47. Lexus
    Lexus 4 October 2019 22: 10
    +1
    The height of cynicism is to urge the people to "tighten their belts" by shoving state money into the pockets of friends.
  48. filin
    filin 5 October 2019 18: 54
    0
    Quote: parusnik
    According to the head of state, it is necessary to resist falsification of history, the generation of myths about the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War.
    .... Drape Lenin's Mausoleum on 9 May ...

    ... and Volgograd to return the name of Stalin
  49. NF68
    NF68 6 October 2019 15: 06
    0
    It's only the beginning.
  50. BecmepH
    BecmepH 6 October 2019 16: 51
    0
    Quote: Vladimir16
    Well, why the heck did our family blood shed in the first world?

    And when did the 1st World War begin? Lenin untied her? Yes you are a storyteller)))