"For ICBMs and drones did not notice a rifle novelty": a new assault rifle of China

The Chinese media continue to actively discuss the large-scale military parade that took place in central Beijing on October 1. In the military-analytical information and analytical publications of the PRC, it was noted that important innovations, including small arms, went unnoticed behind intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) and the latest drones.

It is noted that for the first time at a military parade on Tiananmen Square, the latest Chinese-made assault rifles were demonstrated. According to some reports, this is a new stage in the development of the NORINCO CQ M311 assault rifle, which in turn is, in fact, copied from the Americans M16.

The new assault rifle, as noted, has the fore-end changed - now with "greater ergonomics", the store’s volume is also increased. Unfortunately, there is no data on whether Chinese manufacturers decided to change the caliber from the previous 5.56x45 to a larger one (for example, to the "Chinese" 5.8 caliber).

From a statement on Chinese TV:

This new assault rifle has a convenient layout and modular design concept, which has the advantages of high power, high reliability and versatility.

The Chinese media use the abbreviation NSS (from the "new shooting system").

It should be noted that since the 1997 of the year, the PLA has been armed with the QBZ-95 assault rifle from the same NORINCO. Rate of fire of this automatic weapons - 650 rounds per minute. Bullpup layout. The basic version is a Chinese-developed cartridge of the caliber 5,8 mm.

At the same time, the Chinese are actively engaged in the export of QBZ-95. It (in various modifications) was sold to countries such as Myanmar, Pakistan, Cambodia, Sudan and Sri Lanka.

It is stated that the new assault rifle has a higher rate of fire and cartridge lethal force. The potential market size is impressive - 240 million units!

Comments

[Grandfather]

do not care so on theirs "shooter", with such their "volumes", the opponent will need something else.

[Civil]

Millions of Kalashnikovs in their arms and in warehouses. Who needs a Chinese craft. What a wet export dream

[donavi49]

Well, I’ve entered the Philippines. After the settlement of territorial problems (recently) - they will still order them for real money.

[bessmertniy]

A good rifle will always be in demand. But the Chinese rifle seems to have said nothing bad.

[Herman 4223]

And where was it tested? This is M16 in the Chinese version. Not one way they went to develop.

[Zeev Zeev]

Where does this opinion come from?

[Herman 4223]

M16 is not the most reliable rifle in the world so to speak. In the USA it is more or less brought to mind, but it remains flimsy and not loving dirt.

[Zeev Zeev]

Flimsy? Well, I don’t know, the door was knocked out with a butt (wooden) M-16A1 and nothing broke.

[Herman 4223]

Doors are different.

[Zeev Zeev]

Various. But if the rifle were really flimsy, it would fall apart. Around how we were shown a trick with AK-74 in the tenth grade. Butt on the parade ground and the cover of the receiver flies, scattering the bolt, the spring and the bolt itself in all directions.

[sogdy]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

Butt on the parade ground and the cover of the receiver flies, scattering the bolt, the spring and the bolt itself in all directions.

Yes, extreme wear and tear, but how good it is to disassemble ...

[Zeev Zeev]

May be. Only now, my M-16 was from Vietnam, with a triangular fore-end, and it was not transferred to the newly formed battalion from the weapons of the re-battalion (it was there that they showed us a trick with AK), but from the KMB base, where she was forcefully and forcibly raped by krivoruky salagas, firing in three months KMB for a couple of thousand rounds of ammunition.

[sogdy]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

Only now my M-16 was from Vietnam, with a triangular forend,

I apologize, but were they released "after Vietnam"?

[Vlad.by]

The question is whether the M16 shot the door. And how long if she could.

[Zeev Zeev]

I went with her for almost a year and shot periodically.

[ssergey1978]

Why write frank stupidity. You are very far from the world of small arms. IMHO

[RUSS]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

Where does this opinion come from?

It’s just that kvass patriots have nothing better and cheaper than Kalashnikov and cannot be a priori.

[Zeev Zeev]

I often held AK in my hands, but I couldn’t shoot (except for three bullets at school). He does not impress me, in any of the options I know.

[Vlad.by]

he does not impress me ...

Shit means an assault rifle, once after shooting three cartridges, and even at school, and even Zeev Zeev!
Apparently Galil is not an example better?

[Zeev Zeev]

I didn’t shoot from Galil either. Therefore, I can only judge by personal feelings from the convenience of holding and aiming. Compared to AK, it is heavier. Long "Galil" is also not a fountain, especially with a plastic forend, "Glilon" lay in the hands more conveniently than AK, but still worse than M-16.

[sogdy]

Can you try a poster?

[Cottodraton]

And what about the "fair-faced elves" besides endless criticism and whining?

[Shurik70]

I don’t know if this rifle of other models is better or worse, but here’s what literally causes a rash - SECRET !!!
Just think about it. The Chinese army, the largest in the world in terms of numbers, is re-equipping with a new rifle, and abroad they still don’t even know exactly what cartridge there !!!
I'm crap. And take off my hat.

[Herman 4223]

Yes, in any case, 5,8. Why do they need the caliber of NATO. For export, they can make another caliber.

[Omskgasmyas]

The American M-16 is taken as a basis. Since when did it become reliable to advertise it like that? This passage is unlikely from the Chinese, it is already "our" affirmations add

[StudentVK]

As I understand it, it meant the QUALITY of their weapons, otherwise you can push the same topic about the sale of their helicopters to Myanmar with their "reliable and high-quality" engines (I mean the fact that the Chinese supply many Asian countries with their weapons on very favorable terms)) )) Well, we kind of like how recently we sent a batch of grenade launchers, etc., to the Philippines. the Filipinos praised them in every way. If the freebie has flowed, then the gYmn will come up with it to glorify it. The Chinese NORINCO and other Chinese companies are larger than our main defense companies, and the estimated exports of VRAZY are larger than ours. But for some reason, our military export is the SECOND in the world ranking)))) I personally shot with QBZ 95 and honestly say that it’s crap) I liked the scout knife but no more.

[Sarduor]

China has a saying - fear us in a thousand years. It’s not fear yet, but it already causes fears.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Sarduor

China has a saying - fear us in a thousand years. It’s not fear yet, but it already causes fears.

the Chinese have an idea and motivation, it’s bad with us, it’s a bad idea to protect Sichs and Millers with Rotenbergs, now it’s just for relatives and family.

[Tank hard]

Quote: Dead Day

Sechins and Millers with rotenbergs to protect as it did not go wrong, now just for relatives and family

True Grandfather says here, plus.

[Mestny]

Yeah. Each for his own.
No need to take care of the rest. Why do we need a country? We will hide behind the fences and will defend our hut from the edge.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Mestny

Why do we need a country?

I think, Grandfather correctly identified the problem: the existing oligarchy has greatly devalued the concept of a country. Each of us considers Russia to be his country, but in reality there is not so much “our own” in it: gas belongs to Miller, oil belongs to Sechin, and so on.

This creates a serious crisis of motivation when it comes to external threats. The enemy wants to take away our minerals - so they are no longer ours, specifically we can’t take them away anymore. Well, the oil will not belong to Sechin, but to some conditional John Smith or Sun Hun Qiu - specifically, what is it for us?

So it turns out that the defense of the Motherland comes down to protecting that little that really remains its own: family, relatives, friends. And this situation, I admit, is sad and worrying.

[Herman 4223]

And if the family is offered the best conditions, then the desire to defend will disappear altogether.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

Such a position is idiocy, in my humble opinion, if I have to fight for my homeland, whose gas and oil I will think last of all, for me the Fatherland is, first of all, the faith of my ancestors, the Russian language and culture, the graves of my grandfathers, my children ! And to reduce everything to a dough and a trough with food, this is a pigsty of some kind, and not the Motherland.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin

Fatherland, this is primarily the faith of my ancestors, the Russian language and culture, the graves of my grandfathers, my children!

So a competent occupier will not take anything from the above from you, he does not need it. Even his flag over the Kremlin will not hang out (why should the people anger in vain). Just gently tidy up everything valuable under his control, well, he will leave the right people in power who know who to obey.

[michell]

Quote: Kalmar

Just gently tidy up everything valuable under his control, well, he will leave the right people in power who know who to obey.

Please indicate that from the currently listed by you Russian horns (world backstage) in Russia is not made?

[Kalmar]

Quote: michell

Please indicate that from the currently listed by you Russian horns (world backstage) in Russia is not made?

I look, you caught the point;)

[Sanichsan]

Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin

This position is idiocy

here through one Vlasovite. there are also competing who will sell their homeland faster.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin

And to reduce everything to a dough and a trough with food, this is a pigsty of some kind, and not the Motherland.

You would have been strange patriots about this in 1991. When the greatest country in the world was destroyed for the trough. And yes the economy is the basis. What the fuck is your strange patriotism if I'm not cold or hot from him? If someone eats three throats while your family lives from paycheck to paycheck, then let him protect the country and he has the greatest motivation. And all these cries about patriotism, this is a miserable demagogic attempt to cover up their selfish interests with them like a fig leaf.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

About 91 years, I completely agree, with the rest not!

[Incvizitor]

The enemy wants to take away our minerals

Not only does he want to destroy the country and us, the West has been trying to achieve this for a very long time, the methods are changing, the essence remains the same.

[Kalmar]

Quote: Incvizitor

Not only he and the country and wants to destroy us, the West has been trying to achieve this for a very long time

Relax, he, the West, do not care about you, in fact. And the country is completely needed rather than hindered: it needs some distinct external enemy, under the confrontation of which it will be possible to write out (and assimilate) billions for the defense industry.

[meandr51]

Well, yes, spit. But only in a moral sense. We are only a difficult target for them. If it were to spit in the military and economic, then they would not be wasted on ballistic missiles and other ammunition, which are needed only to fight Russia.

[Kalmar]

Quote: meandr51

If it were to spit in the military and economic, then they would not be wasted on ballistic missiles and other ammunition, which are needed only to fight Russia.

On ballistic, if anything, we spend much more actively. the Americans somehow very sluggishly modernize; I understand that this is more of a status toy. The rest of the weapons they are developing, so to speak, for everyone. And for all they apply.

Again, do not forget that the American military also likes bold funding, so they regularly intimidate their congress with the "Russian threat" in order to get themselves a couple of dollars in Olympiards in opposition to it. From this point of view, the real destruction of Russia is extremely disadvantageous to them, because they cannot find another such "enemy" now.

[meandr51]

And their SLBM is also a status toy? I thought they were competing with us. And they, it turns out, play toys ... Nobel in the studio!
You have "forgotten" the main principle of geopolitics: it is not habits and intentions that are taken into account, but opportunities.

[Boris Chernikov]

It's funny ... to begin with, Miller and Sechin are not the owners of oil, but the heads of state corporations who donated 6,7 trillion rubles in taxes last year for a couple of seconds ... and the budget in 2018 was 15,1 trillion rubles ... ... companies pay more than 1/3 of the budget in two ... and if Western companies come after the war, do you think they will pay taxes? unlikely, as the 90s showed, they basically did not pay them, adjusting the legislative framework for themselves ... if you omit this "trifle", like the loss of people .. Even in Iraq, where, in fact, there were no long hostilities for 5 years, the US invasion led to the death of 1 million people .. and in Iraq only 38 million people live .. ie. at least 4-5 million children, women and the elderly will die due to the lack of medical care ... And yes, the United States needs fossils, not us, so they will be very active in helping to die ..

[Tank hard]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

It’s ridiculous ... for starters, Miller and Sechin are not the owners of oil, but the heads of state corporations, who donated 6,7 trillion rubles of taxes a couple of last year .. and the budget in 2018 was 15,1 trillion rubles .. That is . companies pay more than 1/3 of the budget in two.

And the truth is funny ...

Quote: Boris Chernikov

.Even in Iraq, where in fact there was no large-scale hostilities for 5 years, the US invasion led to the deaths of 1 million people ... and only 38 million people live in Iraq ... that is. at least 4-5 million children, women and the elderly will die due to lack of medical care

I am more concerned about the fate of the peoples of the former USSR in general, and the Russians in particular. What to do, I am a mercantile man.

Quote: Boris Chernikov

And yes, the US needs fossils,

And yes, Russia is actively selling them ...

[meandr51]

That's it. Sells. And after the occupation will give away for free. The USSR also sold wheat and ore to Germany before the war. Purchasing guns, presses and machine tools for German loans. Everything was very useful.

[Boris Chernikov]

And I am concerned about the fate of Russian citizens, the inhabitants of the former USSR made a choice at the time .. And yes, Russia sells its resources, because it allows you to receive money for which factories and factories are being built, pensions and salaries are paid to state employees ..

[Tank hard]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

the inhabitants of the former USSR made a choice at one time ..

Judging by this statement, at the time of the collapse of the USSR, you were very few years old, or something was wrong with you, because even those who made a choice in favor of a united USSR were not given this choice. Even to discuss this is not a hunt, tk. "bearded button accordion".

Quote: Boris Chernikov

And yes, Russia is selling its resources, because it allows you to receive money for which factories and factories are being built, pensions and salaries are paid to state employees ..

There is a good saying about this:
- "Meli, Emelya, your week".

[Boris Chernikov]

those. in fact there is nothing to say? then it’s better to be silent;

[Tank hard]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

those. nothing to say in fact?

By what fact?

Quote: Boris Chernikov

then it’s better to keep quiet;

Apparently this is your life credo, condolences ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

And you seem to be telling the truth, but in the end you get demagogy. Because you are silent about something else. In essence, your beloved national bourgeoisie also doesn't give a damn about your people. Only fear for their wealth makes them squeakily allocate some money for defense and other social programs. How long has a Putin talked about Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok?

[Boris Chernikov]

I argued, before the Munich speech, and then stopped arguing, since the EU showed that they do not want to accept strong countries into the "friendly European family", otherwise there will be no gesheft ... If anything, then they wanted to join NATO at one time ..

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Boris Chernikov

I argued, before the Munich speech, and then stopped arguing, since the EU showed that they do not want to accept strong countries into the "friendly European family", otherwise there will be no gesheft ... If anything, then they wanted to join NATO at one time ..

That's it. So all this talk about patriotism is for the proletariat to fight for the interests of the ruling class of the bourgeoisie.

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

And here, sechins, rotenbergs and others, we have always fought for our Motherland, well, or For Faith, the Tsar and the Fatherland, though the king then perceived as a sacred figure.

[NordOst16]

It has so far been motivation and faith. Sooner or later, everyone will ask themselves the question of what they are howling for and whether it is worth fighting further. If the state does not suit its citizens, then such a state disappears

[Uncle Vanya Susanin]

Firstly, it is necessary to fight for the homeland, and this is somewhat wider than the state, secondly, the state has disappeared twice in our country over the past 20 centuries, and how has this helped the people? Is life better? Life has become more fun?

[NordOst16]

Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin

First, we must fight for our homeland, and this is somewhat wider than the state

The point is to fight for what does not belong to you or does not fulfill your task? And what is the homeland? Some may say that the homeland is the whole state, others will say that for them, the homeland is their city or region. And these two approaches enter into competition with each other.

Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin

secondly, the state has already disappeared twice over the past 20 centuries, and how this helped the people

And how would it help if they survived? They fell apart due to the fact that they lost a vote of confidence of the people. And without this, no state can exist

[Sanichsan]

Quote: NordOst16

Sooner or later, everyone will ask themselves the question of what they are howling for and whether it is worth fighting further.

were already asking. who went to Vlasov, who is in the SS for rations ... by the way, the attitude towards people like you has not yet changed among the people and you will most likely end as Vlasov

[NordOst16]

And who, after working hard at the factories, gets a penny. So you want to reap, but you want to strike, you still get ...

Quote: SanichSan

By the way, the attitude towards people like you has not yet changed among the people and you will probably end as well as Vlasov

By the way, the attitude of the authorities towards people like you has not changed either, the state has torn you off, it’s not clear why, it will continue because you’re not mammoths, you won’t die out

[Sanichsan]

Quote: NordOst16

By the way, the attitude of the authorities towards people like you has not changed either,

such as we do not beg for power benefits and subsidies. we went through 90 and used to rely on our strengths, and not on the fact that someone will give a tasty burger.
but you can continue to believe in the good king Navalny who will come and here you will live
it’s good that people like you are a tiny minority

[NordOst16]

Quote: SanichSan

such as we do not beg for power benefits and subsidies

That's right, pay taxes and don’t ask what they’re going for, lackeys needless. Therefore, shitty roads and terrible hospitals.

Quote: SanichSan

and not that someone will give a tasty burger

That is before our authorities, before the major elections, they raise pensions for a couple of pennies, or they drop the prices of utilities.

Quote: SanichSan

but you can continue to believe in the good king Navalny who will come and here you will live

Each has his own king, some Navalny who will solve all the problems, others who do not know the GDP, how their environment cuts money, although everyone around them has their own money, how can they be planted for it?

Quote: SanichSan

it’s good that people like you are a tiny minority

Oh by the way, more and more people are starting to ask smart questions like: where are our taxes going? And why, if our country is surrounded by enemies from all sides, officials buy expensive real estate over the hill and will teach their children there? And for what money?
It is clear that such issues are unpleasant for the authorities and therefore we will call these people traitors.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: NordOst16

That's right, pay taxes and don’t ask what they’re going for, lackeys needless. Therefore, shitty roads and terrible hospitals.

Are you the whole working population of Russia called serfs? and then moral ones like you wonder why their presidential candidate Ksyusha scored 2 percent What, again, the wrong people caught?

Quote: NordOst16

That is before our authorities, before the major elections, they raise pensions for a couple of pennies, or they drop the prices of utilities.

never paid attention to it. I arrange my life without state benefits. by yourself. but for some schoolboy who has not worked a day, this is probably really indicative.

Quote: NordOst16

Each has his own king, some Navalny who will solve all the problems, others who do not know the GDP, how their environment cuts money, although everyone around them has their own money, how can they be planted for it?

Does your picture of world order necessarily mean a king? you confused the campaign with the slaves this is your path

Quote: NordOst16

Oh by the way, more and more people are starting to ask smart questions like: where are our taxes going? And why, if our country is surrounded by enemies from all sides, officials buy expensive real estate over the hill and will teach their children there? And for what money?
It is clear that such issues are unpleasant for the authorities and therefore we will call these people traitors.

ha ha ha scream!
Do you seriously think that the problem is in the questions? Well, for a serf seeking a better king, this is probably normal.
I’ll hint to you, it’s not what you are speaking for, but who you are speaking to. everything is against corruption, even corrupt officials but under whose banners did you decide to fight corruption? Bulk fraudster? also with unknown sources of funding? well, ok
and so over there and the Hitler Youth with the SS were for healthy lifestyle. are you for a healthy lifestyle will you enter

[NordOst16]

Quote: SanichSan

Are you the whole working population of Russia called serfs?

Not all, but those who do not want to demand from the government what they are obliged to do and fight for their rights.

Quote: SanichSan

and then such moral ones as you wonder why their presidential candidate Ksyusha scored 2 percent that, again, the wrong people were caught?

The people have the government that they deserve. But the people are big and everyone has different opinions, I think that I am right and it is worth fighting for it.

Quote: SanichSan

never paid attention to it. I arrange my life without state benefits. by yourself. but for some schoolboy who has not worked a day, this is probably really significant

This is not indicative of the student at all, for they themselves do not earn money. And I also do not really need benefits, but it is important that my taxes are used as efficiently as possible, but I don’t see this.

Quote: SanichSan

Does your picture of world order necessarily mean a king? you confused the campaign with the slaves this is your path

This comparison is quite good. For there are those to whom everything is possible, but there are all others. And at the head of the elite there is a person who is kind of good, but does nothing to reduce the inequality between the incomes of the richest people and everyone else.
And lackeys are those who do not want to fight for the power to respect his opinion and needs.

Quote: SanichSan

ha ha ha scream!
Do you seriously think that the problem is in the questions?

No, the problem is that after no sane answers have been received to these questions, people take to the streets and begin to seek attention in other ways, but this is already annoying the "servants of the people".

Quote: SanichSan

Well, for a serf seeking a better king, this is probably normal.

This must be said to those who are looking for another "strong hand" and reverently remember how good life was under Stalin, while not having lived a year under Stalin's rule (well, or catching this period of time only in childhood).

Quote: SanichSan

I’ll hint to you, it’s not what you are speaking for, but who you are speaking to. everything is against corruption, even corrupt officials, but under whose banners did you decide to fight corruption? Bulk fraudster? also with unknown sources of funding?

When people have no choice, they are ready to follow everyone who is against the object of their discontent. If only for he was against the government. Yes, and the choice is small - Navalny fraudster or scammers in power? The first has only one advantage - he did not manage to discredit himself as well as the authorities. For me, both are unacceptable objects, but the first is new.

Well, the protesters do not violate either the constitution or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: NordOst16

Not all, but those who do not want to demand from the government what they are obliged to do and fight for their rights.

let's objectively assess the situation, the majority do not care. Of course they don’t like corruption, but not so much as to raise a riot. the level of protest is not great, and the government, no matter how corrupt it is, is following this.
and of course, the protest minority itself regularly demonstrates itself as a bunch of inadequate marginals. look at least remember the campaign of the shaman to expel Putin ...

Quote: NordOst16

The people have the government that they deserve. But the people are big and everyone has different opinions, I think that I am right and it is worth fighting for it.

I guess it's yes. at 90, when the union was destroyed, and got what they deserved. by the way, they also destroyed the "prison of peoples" for all the good

Quote: NordOst16

This is not indicative of the student at all, for they themselves do not earn money.

I actually about the same. but look at the photo shoots from avtozak. Who is the victim of the regime? workers? collective farmers? can employees?

Quote: NordOst16

This comparison is quite good. For there are those to whom everything is possible, but there are all others. And at the head of the elite there is a person who is kind of good, but does nothing to reduce the inequality between the incomes of the richest people and everyone else.
And lackeys are those who do not want to fight for the power to respect his opinion and needs.

I'm sorry, but the stratification of society is an inevitable phenomenon of the capitalist system. for which they fought for it and ran into it ... but freedom and publicity! of type what don't you like? then that this "good man" from the elite is not you? as in the joke? "corruption and bribery are in power! Are you going to fight this? What are you, to participate!"

Quote: NordOst16

No, the problem is that after no sane answers have been received to these questions, people take to the streets and begin to seek attention in other ways, but this is already annoying the "servants of the people".

people? comes out ??? come back to reality! shkolota and "temporarily unemployed" are being driven to rallies to hyip and earn a little extra money. oh yes, there are also organizers and the press ... where are the people then?

Quote: NordOst16

This must be said to those who are looking for another "strong hand" and reverently remember how good life was under Stalin, while not having lived a year under Stalin's rule (well, or catching this period of time only in childhood).

gy gy gy and how can everything be organized without a "strong hand" in power? can "servants of the people" suddenly realize that stealing is bad? like "oh sinful, sinful! Let's not take any more bribes once Navalny President!"
I’ll hint to you that they are grieving for Stalin because under Stalin the stratification of society was minimal and corruption was not given the condition, but it’s good that the camps were confiscated.
I'm curious, do you naively believe that new activists taking schoolchildren to the streets will not steal and take bribes? this despite the fact that they can not even report on the sources of their financing?

Quote: NordOst16

When people have no choice, they are ready to follow everyone who is against the object of their discontent.

it ends very badly. a striking example is General Krasnov. fell as low as possible and ended up lousy ..

Quote: NordOst16

For me, both are unacceptable objects, but the first is new.

do not believe it but similarly only for me the second is more permissible.

Quote: NordOst16

Well, the protesters do not violate either the constitution or the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

law! they violate the law of the Russian Federation on mass meetings. and roughly. do not refer to the constitution, do not disgrace. from there there are also 27 articles about freedom of movement. now you will release all prisoners from prison, since freedom of movement? if not then do not carry nonsense about 31 articles. who even launched this stupid trend to tear the constitution from the law?

[NordOst16]

Quote: SanichSan

let's objectively assess the situation, the majority do not care. Of course they don’t like corruption, but not so much as to raise a riot. the level of protest is not great, and the government, no matter how corrupt it is, is following this.

Yes, unfortunately, we do not have many people who are ready to show an active social position (((

Quote: SanichSan

and of course, the protest minority itself regularly demonstrates itself as a bunch of inadequate marginals. look at least remember the campaign of the shaman to expel Putin ...

Yes, there are quite dubious personalities, but periodically the authorities themselves by their actions stimulate interest in such people. As was the case with that shaman, well, would he have reached Red Square and what next? Would commit a crime and would be sent to a monkey. So alternatively gifted personalities are found on both sides of the barricades.

Quote: SanichSan

I guess it's yes. at 90, when the union was destroyed, and got what they deserved. by the way, they also destroyed the "prison of peoples" for all the good

Yes, the Soviet government lost a vote of confidence, the people wanted changes and they received them. Just did not take the chance. But at that time, many wanted changes and no matter what the cost (and this, it seems to me, is the most dangerous in all kinds of riots, for people are ready to throw themselves in a whirlpool only in order not to be as before. But how will it turn out, better or not, already do not think).
But the hope for the best is always warming, that next time will definitely be better than last.

Quote: SanichSan

I actually about the same. but look at the photo shoots from avtozak. Who is the victim of the regime? workers? collective farmers? can employees?

The last time was quite quite an adult. It is easier to raise schoolchildren (as well as students, although I would refer them to the adult generation), which is what they use.

Quote: SanichSan

gee gee gee and how can everything be organized without a "strong hand" in power? can "servants of the people" suddenly realize that stealing is bad? like "oh sinful, sinful! Let's not take any more bribes once Navalny President!"

No, it is quite possible to live without a strong hand - if citizens are active enough to demolish the top that does not meet their requirements each time. And it’s not the point that no one steals and does not take bribes, it will always be. The main thing is that citizens live (or believe that) better or equally good compared to the richest and most PR countries (France, Germany, USA). Even if there is a big income gap between the richest people and the rest of the citizens, the authorities can always play on the fact that their income is one of the largest in the world, and the magnates will pretend that they invest a lot of money in public products and in general they are white and fluffy.

Quote: SanichSan

I’ll hint to you that they are grieving for Stalin because under Stalin the stratification of society was minimal and corruption was not given the condition, but it’s good that the camps were confiscated.

There is a different opinion about this period and a different assessment of its actions, but this is a completely different topic.

Quote: SanichSan

sorry, but the stratification of society is an inevitable phenomenon of the capitalist system. what they fought for and ran into ... but freedom and publicity! what don't you like? then that this "good man" from the elite is not you? as in the joke? "corruption and bribery are in power! Are you going to fight this? What are you, to participate!"

As I wrote above, the stratification of society will not irritate the masses so much if they are convinced that they live better than all or the indicators are among the best in the world. I partly like the ideas of socialism and partly the ideas of capitalism. In general, the main thing is to convince the people that they are rich, well-fed and that it could be better than the Russian dream. Well, convince citizens of opponents of the same thing (we have everything in chocolate, but you have everything bad).

Quote: SanichSan

it ends very badly. a striking example is General Krasnov. fell as low as possible and ended up lousy ..

Yes, but nobody thinks about it anymore. After all, everyone hopes for the best.

Quote: SanichSan

do not believe it, but similarly only for me the second one is more permissible.

It’s just that although they are trying to write me down almost with Judas, this anger is born from the fact that I want the best, but it does not get better. I want to be proud of my homeland, but it does not work out. I want to have my Russian dream captivating the world, and not drool over the American.
And sometimes it just becomes insulting and like in a song:
Let the rage be noble
Boils like a wave, -
There is a people's war,
Sacred War!
I’m probably not much mistaken that many are ready to lower their paws and do whatever they say in exchange for the realization that the refrigerator is full and they live in a superpower. And then you can swing the money as much as you like, and a fat, well-fed cow will bring more money, but it’s a shame that they don’t want to look at the future.

Quote: SanichSan

law! they violate the law of the Russian Federation on mass meetings. and roughly. do not refer to the constitution, do not disgrace. from there there are also 27 articles about freedom of movement. now you will release all prisoners from prison, since freedom of movement? if not then do not carry nonsense about 31 articles. who even launched this stupid trend to tear the constitution from the law?

I also see no reason to separately examine these collections of laws, but at the same time, the Constitution has priority and laws adopted by the government should not contradict the Constitution.
I believe that they do not violate the law (although this is a debatable issue) and still I will refer to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, to its 3rd article:
1. The bearer of sovereignty and the only source of power in the Russian Federation is its multinational people.
2. The people exercise their power directly, as well as through government bodies and local governments.
According to the logic of the protesters, the right of the people to govern the state is grossly violated (I partially cannot disagree with them) and therefore they resort to measures which, in their opinion, should correct this situation. The right to rebellion, if I am not mistaken, is called such actions. If you look at international documents and constitutions of other countries, then you can find an explicit indication of such a possibility (I will give you an example, nevertheless, our Constitution is something we should compare our actions with, although I would correct it a little by adding a couple points):

In the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, adopted in 1948, the preamble says:
"Whereas it is essential that human rights are protected by the rule of law in order to ensure that individuals are not forced to resort to rebellion against tyranny and oppression as a last resort."

For Americans, in the US Declaration of Independence of 1776, the preamble of this document generally states that “[...] if any state system violates these rights, then the people have the right to change it or to abolish and establish a new system based on such principles and organizing governance in a manner that is best suited to ensure the safety and well-being of the people. [...] when a long series of abuses and violence [...] reveals a desire to subjugate the people to absolute despotism, the right and duty of the people to overthrow such a government and create new guarantees for their future security. "
I think this is not bad, and we add to our Constitution.

[Sanichsan]

perhaps a plus ...

Quote: NordOst16

Yes, unfortunately, we do not have many people who are ready to show an active social position (((

you are very mistaken. Yes, there are those who simply adapt, there are those who prefer to ponder over their hard share like some kind of Sharlamov or Nikulin, but there are those who seek justice, they just do this not at rallies. To protect your rights you need, at a minimum, a desire to do this. here's a household example for you, my friend one night didn’t catch the metro. at night, municipal buses run once every half an hour along the metro route. he grumbled at the bus stop for two hours until he waited for the bus and froze slightly. after that, he did not trumpet it on forums and social networks, did not start a rally, no .. he found who was in charge of these buses and filed an official complaint there, and it helped!
the whole question is what you need. if there is a lot of noise and hype (stupid word ) then your choice of social networks and rallies, if the result is the ways to achieve it are much less noisy, but much more effective, namely, contacting the controlling structures.

Quote: NordOst16

Yes, there are quite dubious personalities, but periodically the authorities themselves by their actions stimulate interest in such people. As was the case with that shaman, well, would he have reached Red Square and what next? Would commit a crime and would be sent to a monkey. So alternatively gifted personalities are found on both sides of the barricades.

by the time he was taken in his company there was already at least one recidivist and possibly some extremists. Do you need such a company in the yard in the evening? I definitely don’t.

Quote: NordOst16

As I wrote above, the stratification of society will not irritate the masses so much if they are convinced that they live better than all or the indicators are among the best in the world. I partly like the ideas of socialism and partly the ideas of capitalism. In general, the main thing is to convince the people that they are rich, well-fed and that it could be better than the Russian dream. Well, convince citizens of opponents of the same thing (we have everything in chocolate, but you have everything bad).

propaganda is certainly important, but in the modern information space and with modern freedom of movement, people have the opportunity to see everything for themselves. nonsense about "freedom of speech abroad" will go now, perhaps only the most stubborn and those who are paid to spread this nonsense ... the standard of living .. well, from personal experience I can judge that I live better than many Germans or Britons, despite the fact that I have quite a income middle. so the standard tales about paradise in the west no longer work, as well as tales about how everything is fine with us

Quote: NordOst16

It’s just that although they are trying to write me down almost with Judas, this anger is born from the fact that I want the best, but it does not get better.

Duc is .. the program "Leaders of Russia" to help you! I'm serious. if you really decide to fight for justice then go ahead. there is no related qualification. quite legal social lift.

Quote: NordOst16

I also see no reason to separately examine these collections of laws, but at the same time, the Constitution has priority and laws

oh how wrong you are in reality, the law is always higher than the constitution. the constitution is a set of rights, but adulthood is not only rights, but also responsibility, and responsibility is the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation on which you will be imprisoned for an unauthorized rally.
a small historical digression, the right of the people to rule the country was enshrined in Polish laws, the so-called "right of the gentry to the buza." it ended with the partition of Poland ...

Quote: NordOst16

For Americans, in the US Declaration of Independence of 1776, the preamble of this document generally states that “[...] if any state system violates these rights, then the people have the right to change it or to abolish and establish a new system based on such principles and organizing governance in a manner that is best suited to ensure the safety and well-being of the people. [...] when a long series of abuses and violence [...] reveals a desire to subjugate the people to absolute despotism, the right and duty of the people to overthrow such a government and create new guarantees for their future security. "
I think this is not bad, and we add to our Constitution.

very bad idea. look how many times during this time, the US government suppressed the riots and, which is characteristic, did not put activists in the caravans at all. there they somehow shot and not rubber bullets at all. How do you like the prospect of grabbing a stray bullet in your lungs from the National Guard on the way to the store? and mind you, everything is within the law I personally do not like this prospect.

[NordOst16]

Quote: SanichSan

about how you are mistaken in reality, the law is always higher than the constitution. constitution is a set of rights

Well, I do not agree, laws should not violate the rights prescribed in the constitution. Or then it can be abolished.

Quote: SanichSan

there they somehow shot and not rubber bullets at all. How do you like the prospect of grabbing a stray bullet in your lungs from the National Guard on the way to the store? and note, everything within the framework of the law I personally do not like this prospect.

Well, you can grab the kidneys in the Russian Federation, at the police station.
There was no strong reaction to overclocking hard in the States only because the majority of the population did not support the rebels, because otherwise it would be much more fun, given the number of small arms in the population

[Sanichsan]

Quote: NordOst16

Well, I do not agree, laws should not violate the rights prescribed in the constitution. Or then it can be abolished.

and the laws do not violate Does the Criminal Code prohibit mass performances? of course not! The Criminal Code regulates the procedure for conducting mass demonstrations, but a violation is already punishable. the constitution declares the law itself, the Criminal Code determines the procedure for the implementation of this right and responsibility. so clear?
otherwise, under article 27 of all maniacs and terrorists at will

Quote: NordOst16

Well, you can grab the kidneys in the Russian Federation, at the police station.

Well, if earlier this was the norm, now you need to try to get rid of the kidneys I have something to compare with. but if you throw yourself at the cops, then you can not only kidneys ... here's an example ... last year I watched the next show, a police outfit sees a couple of students grunting at the entrance to the metro. it is 100% administrative. fit to draw up and the girl begins to cover them with matyuga, this is also an insult at execution. and in this situation I am completely on the side of the "bloody redhead".

Quote: NordOst16

There was no strong reaction to overclocking hard in the States only because the majority of the population did not support the rebels, because otherwise it would be much more fun, given the number of small arms in the population

Not certainly in that way. there was no reaction due to strict censorship. Americans don’t even know about most suppressed protests. it’s with us that human rights activists throughout the country howl a schizo or a moron who has nestled on the palace square on August XNUMX from every shaman, but in the USA the sheriff shot the leader of the protests of the farmers and we wrote about it in the state where it happened that they killed upon detention. that’s the whole resonance.
it’s just that in our country the situation with state security and censorship resembles an attempt to raise soap in a prison soul in the company of five hefty niggas ... foreign agents work with complete impunity ...

[NordOst16]

Quote: SanichSan

and the laws do not violate. Does the Criminal Code prohibit mass protests? of course not! The Criminal Code regulates the procedure for conducting mass demonstrations, but a violation is already punishable. the constitution declares the law itself, the Criminal Code determines the procedure for the implementation of this right and responsibility. so clear?

But at the same time, according to the protesters, the authorities violate article 3 by rigging the elections (which I agree with) and therefore they go to rallies (including unauthorized ones. They commit an offense under the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, but at the same time they are fighting for their rights because it cannot be done by other legal means, so they, in their opinion, exercise their right to govern the state. This is a very slippery topic.

Quote: SanichSan

Well, if earlier this was the norm, now you need to try to get rid of the kidneys

Recently I saw, I saw, and I think, if it’s interesting, you can easily find it, where the observer got in the stomach from a certain citizen and the policeman stood and did nothing. Apparently now we must still try to ensure that our valiant police carry out their duties.

Quote: SanichSan

Not certainly in that way. there was no reaction due to strict censorship. Americans don’t even know about most suppressed protests. it’s with us that human rights activists throughout the country howl a schizo or a moron who has nestled on the palace square on August XNUMX from every shaman, but in the USA the sheriff shot the leader of the protests of the farmers and we wrote about it in the state where it happened that they killed upon detention. that’s the whole resonance.

Well, the shaman would simply be laughed at and accepted in Washington if he would have committed any offense. And about the fact that the sheriff shot the farmer - we do not know under what circumstances this happened because Every first one has weapons there, the police, for obvious reasons, are very nervous, and if the farmer would come out to the edge with the trunk, then I would do the same as the policeman.

Quote: SanichSan

it’s just that in our country the situation with state security and censorship resembles an attempt to raise soap in a prison soul in the company of five hefty niggas ... foreign agents work with complete impunity ...

What is not so bad, you just need to introduce responsibility for deliberate misrepresentation. But not only the sources of the media, but also the authorities and those who are going there (deputies), so that everyone is responsible for their words in the country (for already tired of watching how they hang noodles on their ears, let them practice using strong and powerful so as not to be balabolami)

[Sanichsan]

Quote: NordOst16

including unauthorized. According to the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation, they commit an offense, but at the same time they are fighting for their rights because in other, legal ways, this does not work.

sorry what?!? why do others succeed and these figures fail? why did a number of unapproved candidates successfully challenge the decision of the election commission in court and get access to the elections? including a number of opposition candidates.
Do not be fooled by yourself and others! those who staged unauthorized rallies were not going to defend any rights, they needed a dibosh. they made a dibosh and got what is supposed to be a dibosh, some in the form of very real terms. I personally think that the authorities led themselves too softly.

Quote: NordOst16

the observer got in the stomach from a certain citizen and the policeman stood and did nothing.

the whole country saw how one gay got on the head when he was digging up to the paratroopers on the day of the Airborne Forces, I do not sympathize with him. though his police saved ...
you are right that the police should not be inactive, but I do not feel sympathy for the provocateurs. and you?

Quote: NordOst16

Well, the shaman would simply be laughed at and accepted in Washington if he would have committed any offense.

Shyzik gathers a gang of extremists and leads her to Moscow ... do you seriously think this is funny?

Quote: NordOst16

we do not know under what circumstances this happened because Every first one has weapons there, the police, for obvious reasons, are very nervous, and if the farmer would come out to the edge with the trunk, then I would do the same as the policeman.

as it were from a drone ... that is, in this situation, all the rules, but to shoot a gang led by a schizo who has the intent to overthrow the legally elected government, you can’t ... even detain him badly! Are you seriously?

Quote: NordOst16

What is not so bad, you just need to introduce responsibility for deliberate misrepresentation. But not only the sources of the media, but also the authorities and those who are going there (deputies), so that everyone is responsible for their words in the country (for already tired of watching how they hang noodles on their ears, let them practice using strong and powerful so as not to be balabolami)

bright but utopian idea any deputy, especially an opposition one, promises from three boxes and all this just to get to the feeding trough. lots of examples! Didn't the opposition deputies hold leadership positions in municipal bodies? And How? are the roads normal there and corruption is gone? and what are you planning to do with the Internet? here is the most fierce trash!
PS
everyone really wants everything around to be good-looking and clean as in good old Europe, but no one likes to remember that European goodness was achieved through the most severe repression. any fighter for a brighter future will be torn to shreds by the proposal to introduce fierce fines and labor work for littering on the street, but shouting that "it's clean there, but it's dirty here" is a must. do not litter and it will be clean! but they can’t litter and don’t want to be responsible for it.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: SanichSan

such as we do not beg for power benefits and subsidies. we went through 90 and used to rely on our strengths, and not on the fact that someone will give a tasty burger.

That's just in 90 they came out to eat a delicious burger, and the flag under which the Vlasov fought still hangs over the Kremlin.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: Mordvin 3

That's just in 90 they came out to eat a delicious burger, and the flag under which the Vlasov fought still hangs over the Kremlin.

in in. and we don’t want to repeat it. once is enough.

[Herman 4223]

Well, what can you do if the state idea is prohibited by law.

[Boris Chernikov]

the idea? Seriously? a more uninitiated people than the Chinese are hard to find .. Even if you look at their weapons school, it’s very noticeable that they just look at what others have done and copy at home: first AK, then Famas, then Emka .. in fact they copy

[commandos27]

China has a saying - fear us in a thousand years. Not fear yet, but fears are already causing

You do not need to be afraid of anything; you stand for humanity and not for a separate state.

[Shuttle]

You are on the right track, comrades. In China, now it’s something like our NEP. It can last even 50-100 for years. Who knows! China experienced a period of internal active resistance and external aggression after the revolution, taking advantage of the patronage and assistance of the USSR. It can calmly build its own economy, its defense.

[eagle owl]

China has already hit the threshold. Nowhere to develop further. Already stagnating

[Grandfather]

Quote: Uhu

China has already hit the threshold. Nowhere to develop further. Already stagnating

the Chinese don’t know ....

[Shuttle]

Quote: Dead Day

Quote: Uhu

China has already hit the threshold. Nowhere to develop further. Already stagnating

the Chinese don’t know ....

And the Americans also can not calm down. Everyone thinks that the Chinese are about to do them. Probably stupid Americans because they don’t see, they don’t want to notice Chinese stagnation? Yes?
[sarcazm_mode = off]

[dzvero]

They know, but do not comment. But, and most importantly, they seek ways to develop further.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Uhu

China has already hit the threshold. Nowhere to develop further. Already stagnating

This is unlikely, the numbers say the opposite.

2010 - 6 trillion. 066.3 billion dollars
2011 - 7 trillion. 522.1 billion dollars
2012 - 8 trillion. 570.3 billion dollars
2013 - 9 trillion. 635.0 billion dollars
2014 - 10 trillion. 534.5 billion dollars
2015 - 11 trillion. 226.1 billion dollars
2016 - 11 trillion. 221.8 billion dollars
2017 - 12 trillion. 062.2 billion dollars
2018 - 13 trillion. 407.3 billion dollars
2019 - 14 trillion 216.5 billion dollars (forecast)

For comparison, in Russia in 2018, GDP amounted to 1 trillion. 630,659 billion dollars.

[Mavrikiy]

And comrade Ugu is right.

eagle owl
China has already hit the threshold. Nowhere to develop further. Already stagnating

Stagnation is still a long way off, but rested on the threshold, look at your numbers. 2010-11 = 24%, 2018-19 = 6%, and then the fight with the USA, sanctions will be worse ...

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Mavrikiy

and then the fight with the USA will be worse

Not a fact. The United States has been rotting for how many years, but it still won't bend. And China every year increases its GDP by an amount almost equal to our entire GDP.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Quote: Mavrikiy

and then the fight with the USA will be worse

Not a fact. The United States has been rotting for how many years, but it still won't bend. And China every year increases its GDP by an amount almost equal to our entire GDP.

Do not read Chinese newspapers! Live in the real world.

2018 - 13 trillion. 407.3 billion dollars
2019 - 14 trillion. 216.5 billion dollars (forecast) in Russia in 2018, GDP amounted to 1 trillion. 630,659 billion dollars

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Do not read Chinese newspapers! Live in the real world.

Data from our sources. Your numbers are not accurate. Check back at other sources.
http://global-finances.ru/vvp-rossii-po-godam/

[Sergej1972]

This is at par. Both we and the Chinese prefer to use PPP GDP indicators. Compared to GDP at par, it is higher both in our country and among the Chinese.

[DimerVladimer]

This is commented on by a Russian who has a 1,5% growth in the country (at the same time depreciated by half), while in China in 2018 a growth of 6,6% - is that all the difference?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: DimerVladimer

This is commented on by a Russian who has a 1,5% growth in the country (at the same time depreciated by half), while in China in 2018 a growth of 6,6% - is that all the difference?

Does the doctor not like his medication? Does the apologist for capitalism not like its side effects?

[meandr51]

And the Crimean bridge will fail, Russia will fall apart. The accuracy of the forecasts is amazing!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Shuttle

In China, now it’s something like our NEP.

I would argue. What gave the NEP to the USSR. Simple unguarded speculation and rampant crime.

[Zeev Zeev]

The NEP has given economic growth, improved living standards, an influx of investment, salvation from hunger and a decrease in the internal side of tension in the country.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

The NEP has given economic growth, improved living standards, an influx of investment, salvation from hunger and a decrease in the internal side of tension in the country.

And also corruption, corruption of the population with a beautiful life and a freebie. Each coin has two sides.

[Zeev Zeev]

Corruption is a good life? In your opinion, people should live in a hut, eat brown bread with herring and wear rags

[Mestny]

Of course not. It's just that there’s not enough good life for everyone. And many find themselves in barracks with brown bread and herring. Whereas the other part is the opposite - in palaces with caviar.
Against this background, communist propaganda about equality and "who was nothing, he will become" turns into a savory spit in the face of the people.
This is what the NEP is.

[Mavrikiy]

In my opinion, people should live with dignity, but they must create such a life, earn it. Now a significant portion also eats brown bread with herring and wears a second-hand. Then, under the NEP, a significant part also reached out to speculate in products, with easy money there is corruption.

[Zeev Zeev]

So the people were given the opportunity to earn this life. It is NEP. And the people earned.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

So the people were given the opportunity to earn this life. It is NEP. And the people earned.

Nonsense. NEP allowed to create a market and filled it with goods from artels and small entrepreneurs. And the sharks-speculators have earned. And when the NEP slammed, it was they who yelled.

[Zeev Zeev]

What are shark speculators? Grandmother Matryona, who bought a primus in an artel and resold it to Chervonets more expensive in the village? Or did Uncle Vasil, a veteran of the campaign against Warsaw, make this primus? Ah, I get it! The beekeeper Aslan, who made tea on this stove. Damn it, sharks ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

What are shark speculators? Grandmother Matryona, who bought a primus in an artel and resold it to Chervonets more expensive in the village? Or did Uncle Vasil, a veteran of the campaign against Warsaw, make this primus? Ah, I get it! The beekeeper Aslan, who made tea on this stove. Damn it, sharks ...

Let's tell more fabulous tearful stories. But the very same Berezovsky and Khodorkovsky somehow do not really look like grandmother Matrena who sold primus stoves, and they are precisely the very ideological heirs of Nepman. Demagogy has not taken off, try again.

[Zeev Zeev]

What does Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky have to do with it? What are the ideological heirs?

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

What does Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky have to do with it?

Despite the fact that there is no need to whistle about Matren’s grandmothers. Not one of them consisted of Nepmans.

[Zeev Zeev]

Could you elaborate on the oligarchs of the NEP era? Owners of factories, newspapers, steamboats ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

Could you elaborate on the oligarchs of the NEP era? Owners of factories, newspapers, steamboats ...

Are you for demagogy again? What did you decide to prove to me? What oligarchs were not then? So what? The bourgeoisie, it consists only of women Matren and oligarchs Berezovsky? Again your demagoguery does not take off, try again.

[Zeev Zeev]

No, it’s you who are doing demagogy here, trying to justify the barracks in which our grandparents lived, the balance that they slurped in the camps, and in general the extremely bad life that they had.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

No, it’s you who are doing demagogy here, trying to justify the barracks in which our grandparents lived, the balance that they slurped in the camps, and in general the extremely bad life that they had.

I understand that the demagogue has a fierce hysteria in your face? Why did you decide that I was trying to justify something there and that something there needed to be justified? Who are you, a self-proclaimed judge? Came here you understand the unknown Internet anonymus and begins to teach us life. How right and wrong. From the couch it is very easy to talk about how to rule empires.

[Zeev Zeev]

So are you an umperet? Oh wow ...

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

So are you an umperet? Oh wow ...

Are you jealous of a petty-bourgeois chauvinist?

[Zeev Zeev]

I'm sorry sooner.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

I'm sorry sooner.

C'mon, you don’t even know what it is.

[Zeev Zeev]

Be an American? I know that. But since then I have matured and wiser.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

Be an American? I know that. But since then I have matured and wiser.

About wiser, I doubt something. In general, I probably stop our discussion, because it is meaningless. You still don’t understand me. Your conceit will not allow you.

[Zeev Zeev]

I’ll understand. Himself when he was Ymperts. But I won’t accept it, because I was cured of this rubbish.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

What are shark speculators? Grandmother Matryona, who bought a primus in an artel and resold it to Chervonets more expensive in the village? Or did Uncle Vasil, a veteran of the campaign against Warsaw, make this primus? Ah, I get it! The beekeeper Aslan, who made tea on this stove. Damn it, sharks ...

Grandmas Matryona did not give loans. They did not bankrupt trusts.

[Zeev Zeev]

Yes, the financial inspection bankrupt trusts to raise money.

[meandr51]

The man had in mind examples of "beautiful life" in the form of luxury and debauchery of the few Nepmen.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Mavrikiy

And also corruption, corruption of the population with a beautiful life and a freebie.

Crime and problems for 10 years, nothing was built, corrupted officials and much more. NEP gave nothing good. And do not read the "History of the AUCPB" with gusto. It is very truncated in this matter. It was impossible to belittle the role of Lenin.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

The NEP has given economic growth, improved living standards, an influx of investment, salvation from hunger and a decrease in the internal side of tension in the country.

I have never heard such idiocy. In our Academy, this NEP was cut like that, I still remember. Well, if I look liberals like it very much (as many as three minuses). then answer - "What was built during the NEP period ???" And why did Stalin stop it immediately? The capitalists were getting fat as they are now. In a socialist society there should be no personal property - the law of Marx and Engels. And the tension has increased to the limit. Although you, living in your own country, whose people have done a lot of dirty tricks for my country, cannot be explained.

[Mestny]

Quote: tihonmarine

In socialist society there should not be personal property - the law of Marx and Engels.

Shouldn't it be private? Personal should not be only in a slave society among slaves.
Or maybe Marx and Engels came up with the theory of a new slave system?

[voyaka uh]

"Or maybe Marx and Engels just invented a theory of a new slave system?" ////
----
That is exactly what happened. Although they did not think about it.
The system of the USSR to a large extent resembled the system in ancient Egypt. All means of production are in an omnipotent state. Only instead of the pharaoh and priests - the Secretary General and the Politburo. The people receive free meager, but guaranteed food, poor but guaranteed housing. And he plows for a symbolic salary at universal national construction sites. Channels and pyramids in a modern version.
The state nomenklatura is engaged in all science and art with privileges: "Stalinist houses" and high salaries. It was the same in the Ancient Egyptian supercivilization.

[asv363]

Quote: voyaka uh

The state nomenklatura is engaged in all science and art with privileges: "Stalinist houses" and high salaries.

The talented youth selection system in the USSR worked perfectly, no dirt needed. And with fundamental and applied science then everything was fine.

[voyaka uh]

So in ancient Egypt, worked perfectly. There were social elevators too. Talented slaves promoted. Look, Moses has grown to an adviser to Pharaoh himself. Both fundamental and applied science were advanced. Moreover, hundreds of years.

[meandr51]

So we should take an example from successful people! By the way, if you call an office clerk free, then his slave nature will not change from this. His "freedom" differs from the Egyptian scribe only for the worse. Because he is always in touch with the owner.

[IS-80_RVGK2]

Quote: voyaka uh

That is exactly what happened. Although they did not think about it.

Well, you don’t understand what was happening then, why then attract by the ears what is not attracted? All that you said is nothing more than your stupid fantasies.

[meandr51]

"Lean", "symbolic" ... It depends on what to compare. With the advent of capitalism in the 90s, consumption did not increase, but decreased, demographics and health deteriorated. People began to rest less than in the USSR. And, if we compare it with RI, which is more correct, then after the industrialization of the USSR, the growth in the quality of life went exponentially. Only the war prevented. This information is from my close relatives. They assessed the quality of life in RI as low.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Mestny

Shouldn't it be private? Personal should not be only in a slave society among slaves.

Sorry, but we have a second NEP.

[meandr51]

More precisely, classics should be quoted. Under socialism there is no large ownership of the means of production. It does not swing small traders, photographers and shoemakers.

[Sergej1972]

Do not confuse private and personal property.

[NordOst16]

That's just the NEP gave the people to collect the funds that were withdrawn, subsequently, during industrialization (the country industrialized with these funds). So the NEP has played an important role in the life of the state. The capitalists are fattening - rightly, under communism, everyone should be equal, if part of the population lived poorly, then let the rest of the country live in the same way.

Quote: tihonmarine

And why did Stalin stop it immediately?

The state needed funds, and where to get it, if not from its citizens, to survive everything from them. If Western countries exported capital from the colonies, then we received it from our own citizens.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: tihonmarine

I have not heard such idiocy. In our Academy, this NEP was so cut up, I still remember.

One example:
I work with China - I cooperate with two two engineering plants.
The story has been developing since 1989, the starting base was the same - the state bought the technology of Komatsu and Caterpillar bulldozers and entered into a 10-year contract for establishing serial production.
Both state factories made bulldozers - under the state order.
Then the state sold tractor factories (there were 7 in all) so: one plant was corporatized and sold shares to private investors, and the second was left to the state and managers were appointed every 3-5 years by the CPC party committee - of course, party leaders from industry.

The first plant began to expand its production line, attracted investors, improved quality, entered global markets - the result - increased sales by an order of magnitude.

The second - the state lived mainly at the expense of state orders, the quality was variable, due to the low salary rates of assemblers and high staff turnover, the reconstruction of production was carried out 7 years later than the first plant and at the expense of the state investor - a state steel company, which was "imposed" tractor plant.
Since there is a regular turnover of the plant manager's gene, every 3-5 years the direction of development and the "sales policy" change :)).
The second plant is also trying to expand the product line (the designers are excellent there - we can!), But the management is poorly oriented in the needs of the market and the wishes of customers and makes good, expensive and ... unclaimed bulldozers. The plant also entered the world markets, but much more modestly, since the salaries of middle managers do not depend on the result of their efforts.
Total Now:
A private tractor factory sells 10-15 times more equipment and better quality through private investment than a state-owned factory.
This all happened before my eyes: the first plant was in the top 50 world engineering enterprises (33rd place).
The second is not. The gap is huge.
This is the best indicator of effectiveness.

It must be said that out of the 7 corporations to be state owned, only one remained state-owned, one went bankrupt and 3 reached a very high level of sales - below the first plant, but above the second.
So this is not an accident - a pattern.

Remarque: the state-owned plant had the advantage - it owned technologies from both well-known manufacturers Caterpillar and Komatsu, while the plants sold - only Komatsu technologies, and such a result after 20 years ...

[DimerVladimer]

[/ quote] [quote = DimerVladimer] I must say that out of 7 factories to be jointly owned, only one remained state-owned, one went bankrupt and 3 reached a very high level of sales - below the first plant, but above the second.
So this is not an accident - a pattern. [/ Quote]

PS Cons look especially ridiculous - it was actually a statement of fact.
The minus is like trying to rotate the Earth in the opposite direction - it doesn’t touch :)
There is nothing to be done with the fact - the state economy will lose in the majority.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: DimerVladimer

PS Cons look especially ridiculous - it was actually a statement of fact.
The minus is like trying to rotate the Earth in the opposite direction - it doesn’t touch :)
There is nothing to be done with the fact - the state economy will lose in the majority.

minus posed as a stupid attempt to pass off the problems of the incompetence of managerial staff for the viability of the public administration system.
give you examples of bankruptcy of commercial plants? then you believe that non-state property leads to ruin and bankruptcy?

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: SanichSan

minus posed as a stupid attempt to pass off the problems of the incompetence of managerial staff for the viability of the public administration system.

My dearest is this concrete example, better than lengthy fabrications on this subject.

Private business, although it does not have such financial support as the state one, turns out to be more effective in most cases, since it approaches the selection of managers more carefully and encourages it much better.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: DimerVladimer

My dearest is this concrete example, better than lengthy fabrications on this subject.

a specific example? OK.

Quote: DimerVladimer

Private business, although it does not have such financial support as the state one, turns out to be more effective in most cases, since it approaches the selection of managers more carefully and encourages it much better.

truth? Is Tesla not getting out of losses when exempting from taxes and having a lot of benefits is very effective? or maybe the Packard plant, from the bankruptcy of which Detroit turned into garbage, is it effective? or did you forget that all bankrupt and closed plants in Russia were privatized? These are thousands of productions that were brought to bankruptcy and sold out. this genocide of the industry you name effective ???
sorry for directness but you are fierce nonsense. just refer to the statistics. how many state-owned enterprises went bankrupt and how many private ones. private dozens if not hundreds of times more! I hope you will not deny the obvious.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: SanichSan

bankrupt and closed plants in Russia were privatized

Quote: SanichSan

these are thousands of productions that were brought to bankruptcy and sold out

You are generally not guided by the question - most of the "privatizers" in Russia bought factories cheaply and sold property - having received big money quickly - this is not because they did not know how to do anything, they took cheaply and sold as best they could - that was their goal, and not making a profit and modernizing outdated production facilities (70% of Soviet fixed assets were outdated and required investments - therefore it was easier to sell than to invest, this concerns precisely the thieves' version of "grabbing", which the red-headed forelock pulled through.

In the PRC, everything was completely different, the factories were privatized expensively and nobody ruined them quickly to get money, on the contrary, they invested and developed them.

Quote: SanichSan

sorry for directness but you are fierce nonsense. just refer to the statistics. how many state-owned enterprises went bankrupt and how many private

You are poorly versed in economics to blame statistics.
Private capital works where it is profitable, and the state is forced to maintain unprofitable enterprises for social reasons or because it is strategically important enterprises - like the same AvtoVAZ, where only private Renault-Nissan could streamline the process and Kamaz, on the board of directors of which a representative daimler was included.
If it were not for the scrap fees and protective duties, these manufacturers would have long been bent, unable to withstand the competition, but they had created greenhouse conditions - since these are important strategic directions (but rather the only ones left).

You theorize on the go, and I live in it - I know why and how the factories of the former USSR were ravaged and why.
And I know what industries developed in China and I know many directors of factories in China, both public and private, and I see who works and how efficiently.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: DimerVladimer

Private capital works where it is profitable, and the state is forced to maintain unprofitable enterprises for social reasons or because it is strategically important enterprises - like the same AvtoVAZ, where only private Renault-Nissan could streamline the process and Kamaz, on the board of directors of which a representative daimler was included.

and you think that this is not normal? do you think it’s better like in the USA where most of the high-tech industries have left for Asia and now the states have nothing to offer China except soy? won in Ukraine, too, carried out privatization. good example but not in your favor.

Quote: DimerVladimer

You theorize on the go, and I live in it - I know why and how the factories of the former USSR were ravaged and why.
And I know what industries developed in China and I know many directors of factories in China, both public and private, and I see who works and how efficiently.

but you do not theorize, you simply ignore the facts
in the PRC, as well as in Russia, all large-scale production is under state control, which puts a fat cross on your theory. in Russia, the vast majority of enterprises that went into private hands were ordered to live long. it is a fact. in the PRC took this experience into account and avoided the realization of your suicidal theory. the Chinese learn well from the mistakes of others, but you are a prime example of the fact that some people learn nothing.
it is absolutely not important whether the head of state or investor is appointed, it is important what tasks the manager sets for himself. if it is set up to liquidate production, as it was with us, then it will do it. if for him own welfare is more important, he will cut the budget as at AvtoVAZ.
In 1920-1950, government-appointed leaders developed state-owned enterprises and created the world's strongest economy. This is a historical fact. or will you risk denying this too?

[DimerVladimer]

Here are the top 50 largest engineering companies - how many state-owned companies are there? They are not here.
This disproves your assumptions.

As for the structure of the PRC economy - do not forget that as early as 20 years ago 95% of Chinese enterprises had state law on private enterprises only in 1999 no more than 20 years ago - a bit of Chinese statistics for reflection:

In 2001, approximately 1/5 of all large-scale industrial companies were privately owned; more than 6 million individual and more than 1 million private institutions functioned. Already in 2003, there were about 30 million individual farms. In 2009, the 500 largest private enterprises in China produced products totaling 4,74 trillion. RMB, which is 15% more than 2008 and exceeds the average growth rate of state organizations

Two Chinese state monsters “China Mobil” and “Petro China” - that's right - state monopoly.

At the end of 2013, the private sector accounted for more than 60% of China's GDP, the number of registered private enterprises in the country amounted to more than 12 million, and the number of individual households - more than 44 million

Banking in China until 2014 was monopolized by the state (I myself cooperate with the Bank of China branch in Russia - I personally know the bank's president Ms. Gao - I know the bank's policy in Russia.

In 2014, the China Banking Regulatory Commission approved a test version of creating from 3 to 5 private banks, which will mainly lend to medium and small companies.

Now the non-state sector creates more than 78% of China's GDP.

[Sanichsan]

Quote: DimerVladimer

Here are the top 50 largest engineering companies - how many state-owned companies are there? They are not here.
This disproves your assumptions.

bad example. all these corporations left after the collapse of the USSR. there have never been large state enterprises. none of these corporations is not managed by a private person, all are governed by boards of directors and shareholders. Is this very different from public administration where managers are appointed by the ministers of the economy rather than the board of directors? who are you counting on with such a cheap forgery? on schoolchildren?

Quote: DimerVladimer

As for the structure of the PRC economy - do not forget that as early as 20 years ago 95% of Chinese enterprises had state law on private enterprises only in 1999 no more than 20 years ago - a bit of Chinese statistics for reflection:

I remind you once again that all this is under state control. all these structures are very conditionally private.

Quote: DimerVladimer

Banking in China until 2014 was monopolized by the state (I myself cooperate with the Bank of China branch in Russia - I personally know the bank's president Ms. Gao - I know the bank's policy in Russia.

since you are in the know, don’t remind where Xi sent Trump with a proposal on direct investment in the Chinese economy and how far?

let's see what’s big in Russia. mining industry? under state control. aircraft industry? under state control. large mechanical engineering? under state control. nuclear power? under state control. shipbuilding? under state control. it was precisely this that made it possible to preserve these growths from complete destruction in the 90s. Yes, conditionally they are JSC, etc., but actually controlled by the state and fulfill the state order. Conditional private property is needed only for access to external investment.
By the way, we ripped off this scheme from China, which developed it on the basis of the experience of our economic anarchy of 90 years.

if business is not controlled by the state as in Russia or China and has complete freedom as in the USA, then it will all end with the same as in the USA, inflation of GDP due to continuous borrowing and huge growth of public debt. The USA can afford it .. while they can. Russia and China are not going to a debt hole ...

[Ironcity]

It is useless, for the apologists of socialism, China has remained one light in the window. And you can’t explain to them by any examples or statistics that China is developed just as much as the capitalist component of its economy is developed and its socialist component is just as backward. The whole picture of the world will collapse. That's minus ....

[Engineer]

It is interesting.
If it’s not difficult, what do you think of this article?
https://habr.com/ru/company/southbridge/blog/468377/

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Engineer

If it’s not difficult, what do you think of this article?

Well, the guys who asked the Chinese for documentation on a power bank — they just don’t know the business very well and are not good at negotiating — they would have been refused in Russia.

In general, I am surprised that they were offered documentation for them for 100 power banks - this is a very insignificant lot - most likely it is not a manufacturer. The factory operates in batches of thousands.

I have been working with China for 14 years and there is some experience.

There are also scammers from the Chinese - for example, in 2009 I entered into an agreement for distribution in the Russian Federation with one machine-building plant, created a website, advertised in direct, send out advertising catalogs, participate in exhibitions, managers go to negotiations, and then I know that it’s minuscule sales that The plant directly supplies customers with whom we negotiated - several tens of millions of dollars passed by.
I met with their director — he said that it wasn’t interesting for me to work — to bear the costs and not make a profit, offered to sell only through us — the director refused.
I said - well, I know who you take the chassis and accessories from - you only do the assembly. I will work directly with the supplier of the chassis and order the full assembly according to my specifications under my brand - I politely laughed after ...
I signed up with their chassis supplier and in a year promoted my brand - took over most of this narrow sector of technology, squeezed the Chinese out of the Russian market. The result of 2 lost years, its own brand and the optimal price / quality of products.
Later, the "scammers" went bankrupt - apparently, the reputation in China is also worth a lot ...

Everything is individual here - the Chinese do not comply with obligations as in Europe and treat treaties lightly, as they have signed them, and terminate them before the contract expiration date is easy.
Here you need to work wisely and be prepared for retaliatory measures or to be such an interesting partner that you would hold on. But this is difficult - Russia is a poor country with a small market - as the Chinese say - not an interesting market.

[Engineer]

Russia is a poor country with a small market

Unfortunately yes. Only government orders remain, but this is still a pleasure.

[andrew42]

Again fairy tales about the motivation of managers. There, in addition to motivation, you need regular flogging, the threat of depreciation and eye and eye. I have seen enough of Commercial directors and their "teams", new every 2-3 years. This is a disaster not only for the state, but also for the private owner. We don’t want to invest in R&D, we don’t want to invest in technological equipment - it’s a pity for money, for that it’s worth encouraging salespeople and listening to business coaches - that’s the very thing! Fashionable! And it is unaware that without offering a new product, without ROC, without technologies, the "art of trading" in a saturated market competition has very narrow limits, it is impossible to make a margin from year to year at approximately the same technological level of the product - the market share will decline. Add on the drop in purchasing power, and oops .. So leave the tales of how sold are promoted companies. It’s good if they don’t wipe it dry, and thanks for that.

[Shuttle]

Quote: tihonmarine

Quote: Shuttle

In China, now it’s something like our NEP.

I would argue. What gave the NEP to the USSR. Simple unguarded speculation and rampant crime.

The NEP of Lenin-Stalin is not the only option for the transition to socialism. China has different conditions, therefore the path is different. But the goal is the same. In the transition from the multistructure economy of the then Russia to the socialism of the USSR, he completely helped. Not without mistakes, local excesses, but overall the transition is successful. From a historical point of view, abruptly than the first satellite. Because the satellite was ultimately the result of this transition.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Shuttle

NEP Lenin-Stalin

Lenin but not Stalin, please do not confuse. 14 March 1921 year on the idea of ​​V.I. Lenin was adopted by the NEP as a temporary measure, but the X Congress of the RCP (B.) Did not decide on the introduction of free trade and legalization of private enterprise. Moreover, at this congress, Lenin unequivocally declared that freedom of trade was for the Bolsheviks “A danger no less than Kolchak and Denikin combined.” The factories worked at a stretch, the peasants almost did not produce food, and the "Nepmen" raised the prices for everything in three roads and grew fat, but the people became poorer. Here are the results of the NEP. Or we do not see what is happening now. Compare and understand.

[Mavrikiy]

To write like that, you don’t need to go to school.

NEP is not option of transition to socialism.

Rave. This is a necessary measure, in order to

create a flow of goods in the country, develop trade, and then, having mastered the main positions in the field of trade, establish a link between industry and the peasant economy through trade.

If there had been no civil war and the destruction of the economy, then the NEP would not have been needed.

[NordOst16]

NEP has enabled the population to accumulate funds that were subsequently withdrawn by the state for industrialization

[Mountain shooter]

Moved away from the Kalashnikov concept? For more details on this carbine. The article "teases", but gives nothing, no useful information.

[Zeev Zeev]

We carefully look at the device. Apparently, this is a QBZ-95 in a classic layout, that is, gas vent automation with a short piston stroke, the butt is most likely not folding, but telescopic like M-16 with several positions and inside the butt there is a return spring, the main sight is optical or a collimator, the mechanical one goes to the appendage, the weapon is divided (again according to the M-16 principle) into the upper and lower parts. Well, something like this.

[Magic archer]

Conclusions suggest themselves. Firstly, the previous bullpup apparently does not suit the army, the rifle is only 20 years old and it is already being changed. And the second thing. The Chinese are improving. And not far off, many leaders have been promoted in the arms market. And if earlier Chinese weapons were "famous" for poor quality and cheapness, now the Celestial Empire has very competitive but capable samples

[provergatel]

There is a big question about competitiveness.

The Achilles' heel of the entire Chinese industry is metallurgy, or rather, the complex metallurgy of alloys. If steel and cast iron, China now smelts like the rest of the world, then for metallurgy of alloys decades of scientific research are needed. That is why, for example, the resource of aircraft engines completely copied from our samples for Chinese clones of the Su-27 (J-11) is several hundred hours versus several thousand from the Russian original, and the Chinese are forced to purchase engines from us.

In the production of high-quality weapons, materials play an important role. For example, a Kalashnikov assault rifle in Russia is made from a wide range of special alloys, and in China it is spanked from all shit and sticks, so the Russian Kalash is able to endure a bunch of bullying, such as immersion in dirt / water / sand, throwing it on concrete from a meter and a half, freezing and after This is normal to shoot, and the Chinese shit self-disassembles after a long queue for the whole horn (google there is a video on the Internet).

So the question arises, how much are dendrofecal technologies used in the production of the rest of Chinese weapons.

[yehat]

you have probably been sleeping for a long time, times are changing.
the Chinese have already begun to move to new levels of quality.
as I understand it, now the basis of the shooting is still the NAR-10 and its development. it is more reliable than the new bullpup.

[yehat]

in general, the Chinese are now teaching their soldiers so much that they will tear the American marines armed with barrels from the Second World War.

[provergatel]

I do not and do not claim that the Chinese are standing still and will always be content with dendrofecal technologies.

But complex metallurgy without a many-year scientific school cannot be created from scratch. And you can’t even buy it. These are years and decades of developments, experiments, blindly poking.

I fully admit that they already make modern rifle models from better materials.

But ... the number of required barrels for the rearmament of the army and the creation of a stable mobilization reserve is estimated at tens of millions at least, and this is not one year of production at more than one arms factory. So the unit price plays a big role. This is where the devil lies, which is known in detail. Can Chinese industry afford to poke tens of thousands of tons of high-quality, cheap alloys into the production of small arms, when, for sure, such alloys are in great demand in other areas of industry ...

[yehat]

But why the most advanced shooting?
it affects only a tightly integrated army, which only the USA has and only in rare cases when the logistics for the operation are concentrated
The rest of the countries do not have so much money and resources and they are focused on efficiency, not steepness.

[gorenina91]

The new assault rifle, as noted, has the fore-end changed - now with "greater ergonomics", the store’s volume is also increased. Unfortunately, there is no data on whether Chinese manufacturers decided to change the caliber from the previous 5.56x45 to a larger one (for example, to the "Chinese" 5.8 caliber).

- Strange ... - and our intelligence does not catch mice at all ... - since even such elementary "unfortunately, there is no data" ...
-The Chinese themselves have long known everything about all the cogs in our mechanisms and all the bushes of our territory ... -Yes, and not only know, but also have samples ...- ours themselves "throw them" at them ... -nothing They do not hide secrets from the Chinese ... -Because ...- these are "their own people" ... -So many "ours" that just fear takes over our generation ...

[Livonetc]

Our intelligence on the media does not work.
I hope.

[provergatel]

Yes, you are a genius!

From the fact that the author of the article on VO has "no data", you have concluded by an unimaginable twist of logic that "our" intelligence does not have this data either (here, straight, the question arises, what kind of intelligence is "our" for you?).

After all, you have absolutely accurate information that the leadership of the Russian intelligence services calls the author daily and reports to him about the information obtained, and since he doesn’t know something, then ... There is a different logic that led you to such ... original conclusions to me it's difficult to imagine.

[Cruorvult]

It seems to me that the store is painfully narrow and this is a PP, not an assault rifle !?

[Zeev Zeev]

It seems. The shops there are standard from the Chinese "bullpap" QBZ-95 chambered for 5.8x42

[svp67]

Quote: CruorVult

It seems to me that the store is painfully narrow and this is a PP, not an assault rifle !?

Also drew attention to this, rather it is an analogue of MP-5
But you should probably pay attention to this.

This new assault rifle has a convenient layout and the concept of modular design, which has the advantages of high power, high reliability and versatility.

That is, we should expect the presence of a similar rifle, but under a rifle cartridge

[svp67]

Now reviewed this parade is a weapon in service with their airborne

, BMD crews,

light off-road vehicles

and gyros

And yes there is a magazine under the rifle cartridge

and under the pistol ...

[Mavrikiy]

Article:

Bullpup layout.

Greetings from WIKI:

Bullpup (eng. Bullpup) - a layout diagram of the mechanisms of rifles and machine guns, in which the trigger is pulled forward and located in front of the store and the percussion mechanism

Am I sleeping or what?

According to some reports, this is a new stage in the development of the NORINCO CQ M311 assault rifle, which in turn is, in fact, copied from the M16 Americans.

One might just as well say: "Kalashnikov", this is the development of the "maxim" system

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: Mavrikiy

Am I sleeping or what?

Apparently, yes.
The QBZ-95 is the previous rifle to replace which comes the NSS.

It should be noted that since 1997 the PLA has been armed with the QBZ-95 assault rifle from the same NORINCO. The rate of fire of this automatic weapon is 650 rounds per minute. Bullpup layout. The basic version is a Chinese-designed cartridge of 5,8 mm caliber.

But, judging by the presented photos - this product does not reach the high rank of "assault rifle". The store is too narrow.

[Mavrikiy]

Better to sleep than rave. On the submitted photos not a bull pub.

[Vasyan1971]

... which has the advantages of high power, high reliability and versatility.

Plain text that is written on all Dishman disposable Chinese crafts. Is that about "quality material" is not added.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

According to some reports, this is a new stage in the development of the NORINCO CQ M311 assault rifle, which in turn is, in fact, copied from the M16 Americans.

China about copying, never bothered, always did everything for the good of its country, and by what methods it is not important, if only there would be a positive result. As for the new assault rifle, most likely this is not copying, but its own invention, the M-16 is not such an effective assault rifle, the basis of which, you could take a copy of the sample.

[Zeev Zeev]

The M-16 is a fairly effective assault rifle, and in terms of ergonomics and modularity in general, it is a standard that has influenced the development of firearms for 50 years.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

The M-16 is a fairly effective assault rifle, and in terms of ergonomics and modularity in general, it is a standard that has influenced the development of firearms for 50 years.

M-16 is quite an effective assault rifle,

And in what exactly is its effect manifested.

and in terms of ergonomics and modularity in general, is a standard,

And how this standard can affect its effectiveness, if now this standard is no longer a problem for the weapon, any shooter can choose this standard for itself, many varieties have already appeared.

influencing the development of firearms for 50 years.

On which particular weapon, not counting those that copy from it.

[Zeev Zeev]

The M-16 is an effective assault rifle enough to affect the rearmament of SA weapons with a new cartridge. Which is 5.45.
And M-16 influenced all weapons, where both the magazine eject button and the fuse / translator of fire modes are controlled with one hand and which can be upgraded by replacing part of the weapon. For example: FN SCAR, HK G36, X95, Beretta AR-70, FN FNC, Daewoo K2, etc. etc.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

And M-16 influenced all weapons,

Only on its copy and no more.

where both the store eject button and the fuse / fire mode translator are controlled with one hand

These modifications were invented much earlier than on the M-16, similar modifications were already on Sturmgewehr. 44, STG 44.

[Zeev Zeev]

And were they between Sturmgever and the M-16? I doubt something that the creators of the X95 put the store button in front of the trigger guard, copying it from Sturmgever

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

And were they between Sturmgever and the M-16?

What exactly was it?

[Zeev Zeev]

Well, for example, a store button under the index finger of the right hand? By the way, in Stg44 this button is on the LEFT side of the weapon and it is for the thumb of the left hand, which takes out the store (approximately where the M-16 has a shutter lag). And a fuse with a German fire translator. SEPARATE Details

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

In this case, the little things do not matter at all, the layout is on its own.

[Zeev Zeev]

These are not trifles, these are design features that distinguish one weapon from another. In all of the above samples, they are not identical to Stg. 44, but M-16

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Quote: Zeev Zeev

These are not trifles, these are design features that distinguish one weapon from another. In all of the above samples, they are not identical to Stg. 44, but M-16

This is the same as the example you brought the M-16 in which the ejector button, by the same technology it was made.

[Zeev Zeev]

Button store on the other side of the weapon and under the other finger of the other hand. That is quite the opposite.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

The function and technology of work is the same.

[Zeev Zeev]

Of course, the function is the same. And it works differently. Convenient. Therefore, it is so popular all over the world.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Now they themselves have agreed that this is not the merit of the Stripov M-16, but the one from where it was copied.

[Zeev Zeev]

This is the merit of Eugene Stoner, who created the M-16.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

What kind of merit? the fact that he copied it, and even he didn’t copy it himself, but with the help of the Germans.

[Zeev Zeev]

What exactly did he copy from the Germans? Fuse? No. Fire mode translator? No. Store Button? Also no. Automation system? No again. By the way, who of the German gunsmiths worked in the USA to help Stoner?

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

What exactly did he copy from the Germans?

The products themselves.

[Zeev Zeev]

Also no. Nothing copied. Neither automation scheme, nor ergonomics, nothing.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

All the same, yes, it was taken as the basis.

[parkello]

and on the G-3A3 the translator of fire was so long before the M-16 appeared. The M-16 was essentially an assembly of the best solutions of various designers, including M.T. Kalashnikov. but in reality we have a light, ergonomic rifle with a weak cartridge. This rifle is more suitable for hunting small game and people without personal protective equipment (bulletproof vests) for sport shooting and other hunting scenes that are more entertaining in nature. that is, to shoot at those targets that are struck from the first shot and are not able to respond with fire. in fact, AKM and ADF can be called real military weapons. New models of AK 12 .-. 15 I did not hold in my hands, I did not shoot, therefore I can not say anything for them. but I’m sure that they will worthily occupy their niche. and ADS is handsome. Despite the fact that I do not like bullpups, I respect this machine.

[Tank hard]

The Chinese have not yet managed to create a "travel" weapon themselves, to put it mildly - "copy" in the main. IMHO

[Troll]

The Chinese media continue to actively discuss a large-scale military parade
It seems to me that the active discussion did not end not only in China

[Tank hard]

Quote: Troll

The Chinese media continue to actively discuss a large-scale military parade
It seems to me that the active discussion did not end not only in China

Apparently friendship with China is a new trend in Russia, they will now "tune" the electorate to the desired wave ...

[LiSiCyn]

Danil
Yes, it's not about the "trend" ... Such a number of new products, some cause envy not only among us, but also over the hill.

[Tank hard]

Quote: LiSiCyn

Danil
Yes, it's not about the "trend" ... Such a number of new products, some cause envy not only among us, but also over the hill.

Stas, hi! Maybe you are right. Just recently, VO noted, a significant increase in articles about China, it seems that someone is trying to draw too much attention to China, maybe I'm wrong. I will not hide, I have my own view of China, he (this view) is biased, I do not consider China a possible friend of Russia. Apparently the place of birth makes itself felt ...

[LiSiCyn]

Quote: Tank Hard

Apparently the place of birth makes itself felt ...

So we were taught: the flight time of the rocket (Alma-Ata) is 2 minutes. Well, the outpost lives 2 hours, so you have a better chance of living, more ...

[Tank hard]

Quote: LiSiCyn

So we were taught: the flight time of the rocket (Alma-Ata) is 2 minutes. Well, the outpost lives 2 hours, so you have a better chance of living ..

You then have the time of arrival again ... N-yes ...

[Ironcity]

This is an eastern military trick in the event of a conflict with the United States. Everyone knows that the Americans immediately throw out their worthless M-16s in battle to replace them with a better atomic gun. And then hop, they entered the battle, m4 and m16 abandoned out of habit, and the enemy also had an arch. Nothing to fight, even cry, will have to go home.

[DimerVladimer]

Well, who did not notice, who noticed.

[Incvizitor]

What is the QB family already ... they are not satisfied or does not meet the requirements?

[Old26]

Quote: Civil

Millions of Kalashnikovs in their arms and in warehouses. Who needs a Chinese craft. What a wet export dream

If the potential export volume is 240 million units, then this is approximately twice as much as the total production of Kalashnikovs in the world since the start of their production.
We are talking about "Chinese handicrafts" based on the money of the 90s, when they were carrying all kinds of rubbish produced somewhere in a shed or basement. Knives that bent with your fingers, for example. But about 10 years ago, my friend gave me a Chinese knife, small in size, not folding. And it just so happened that I had to use it for several hours as a chisel. So there would be at least one burr on the blade. Their quality still improved (at least knives)

Quote: Shurik70

I don’t know if this rifle of other models is better or worse, but here’s what literally causes a rash - SECRET !!!
Just think about it. The Chinese army, the largest in the world in terms of numbers, is re-equipping with a new rifle, and abroad they still don’t even know exactly what cartridge there !!!
I'm crap. And take off my hat.

Well, the parade calculations have a new rifle - this does not mean that the army has already been rearmament.

[Zeev Zeev]

By the way, there is a scheme.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/4-1.jpg

[Mentat]

Quote: Kalmar

So it turns out that the defense of the Motherland comes down to protecting that little that really remains its own: family, relatives, friends. And this situation, I admit, is sad and worrying.

The defense of the motherland always stands on what you love. If you served, lived to old age, and still you have hesitations and insecurity about what and why you need to protect, there is doubt that you served, and regret that you were not finished at the time.

[yehat]

as far as I read, the reliability of the QBZ-95 turned out to be insufficient and it was no longer delivered to the PLA.
limited arms to Hong Kong and the police.

[Old26]

Quote: yehat

as far as I read, the reliability of the QBZ-95 turned out to be insufficient and it was no longer delivered to the PLA.
limited arms to Hong Kong and the police.

They were released more than 3 million pieces. Something doesn't bind. The police and Hong Kong are by no means 3 million copies.

[bunta]

Judging by the cartridge inside the old arched scheme with the release of the sleeve due to the residual pressure of the gases. Spring with a buffer in the butt. In general, if anything is from AK - a tiny word.

[John22]

Something this new BW looks more like PP. The store is narrow, not under an intermediate cartridge.