T4 program. Triumph of German Eugenics

59

The Münster Lion


Before lighting history Another inhuman action of the Nazi regime in Germany, it is worth mentioning one fact that for various reasons they try not to particularly recall. For a long time in historiography, there was an opinion that the Germans in the situation with Hitler’s power were on the verge of mass insanity and were simply intoxicated by the new orders and prospects of the country's development. Autobahns were built, military production expanded, unemployment was eradicated, German territory grew due to new countries - all these bonuses seriously contrasted with the times following the signing of the Treaty of Versailles. Intoxicated by Hitler’s charisma, the Germans seemed simply unaware of the concentration camps, executions, and the Holocaust.

T4 program. Triumph of German Eugenics

Sculpture of Arno Becker. That is how the right citizen was represented in Nazi Germany. And the means to achieve the ideal did not choose




However, at least one episode of the history of the Third Reich destroys all this beautiful story about the "non-involvement" of the civilian population. The secret euthanasia program for people with physical and mental disabilities Т4 (Aktion Tiergartenstraße 4), launched in Germany in 1939, managed to cause discontent among the population in two years. Moreover, discontent was expressed in such a manner that Hitler ordered to cover the project in the country. This decree, of course, did not apply to the occupied territories - there, as soon as the Nazis got their hands on, they continued to shoot patients in psychiatric hospitals. So, could simple burghers resist the Gestapo, Hitler, and the insane killer doctors? So, it was possible to raise a wave of popular indignation by the inhuman conditions of the existence of Jews and prisoners of war in concentration camps?

Perhaps the real quintessence of a typical indifferent citizen of the Third Reich was Bishop of Munster Clemens August Count von Galen. In 1941, he delivered three sermons against the Gestapo (13, 20 of July and 3 of August), in which he was indignant at the arrests, confiscations and the T4 program. The sermons later became famous.

“For several months now, we have been receiving information that, on orders from psychiatric hospitals and charity houses, insane patients who have been ill for a long time and may seem incurable, are forcibly taken away from Berlin. As a rule, soon after this, relatives receive a notice that the patient has died, the body is cremated, and they can pick up the ashes. There is almost complete confidence in society that these numerous cases of sudden death of mentally ill people do not occur on their own, but as a result of intentional murder. Thus, the doctrine is realized that it is possible to interrupt the so-called invaluable life, that is, to kill innocent people when it is believed that their life is no longer of value to the people and the state. A monstrous doctrine justifying the killing of innocent people, in principle lifting the ban on the forcible killing of disabled people, cripples, terminally ill people, and weak people who are no longer able to work! ”

- the bishop read in the August sermon.

The German underground, including the White Rose, was adopted by its opposition slogans, which, as it turned out, hit the nail on the head - ordinary citizens were quite excited.


Blessed Clemens August Count von Galen


However, von Galen cannot be called a pacifist - he openly supported Hitler's aggressive policy, especially, as he expressed himself, against the communist plague in the east. The bishop was also silent when from 1934 of the year more than 500 thousand “unsuitable” citizens of various nationalities were forcibly sterilized in the country. The influence on the masses of von Galen (and the entire Catholic leadership of the country) was so great that even the Gestapo did not dare to touch the “Munster Lion”. The priest, who openly divided people into two grades, was able to safely wait for the end of the war, to become a cardinal in 1946, and in 2005 to be ranked as blessed.

The killing of compassion


German psychiatrists, eugenics, and simply indifferent nations to racial purity have been rubbing their hands impatiently since the end of the 30's, waiting for official permission for large-scale genetic cleansing in the country. As mentioned in previous articleGermans became ill with eugenic hysteria after the successful implementation of such programs in the USA and Scandinavia. The most unpleasant thing in this story is that only the Nazis actually discredited the doctrine of selection of the human race. The world community, having learned about the inhuman application of the principles of eugenics in the Third Reich, forever branded marginal science. There would be no eugenics in the Nazi program, it is likely that you and I would now live in a world where every 10 or 20 would be sterilized for medical reasons. And I won’t exaggerate: the Swedes refused to sterilize only in the 70 of the XX century. To the credit of the Soviet leadership, Stalin harshly mowed the first sprouts of eugenics in the country at one time, but I’ll tell you about this some other time.




Nazi motivational posters

A formal reason for organizing the mass killings of genetically objectionable citizens for Hitler was a letter from a kind-hearted German in which he asked for permission to kill his hopelessly sick son. They gave permission, and at the same time they untied the hands of a whole cohort of doctors, nurses and scientists, who were so burdened by the insane, the elderly with dementia, encephalitics and many other unfortunates. Hitler wrote in a document in October 1939:
"The Reichsleiter Bowler and Dr. Brandt are appointed by me to be responsible for the roll-out of the number of doctors in order to ensure" death from pity "for the terminally incurable, as common sense suggests, patients with an appropriate medical opinion regarding their condition."
.

What conclusions could be expected from doctors who have passed racial hygiene as an exam since 1936 in universities and advanced training courses? I must say that the medical community has been preparing the ground for the physical destruction of mentally ill people since the 1937 of the year, when they began to reduce the diet for the respective patients. In some hospitals, all 40 pfennigs per day were spent on a patient. At the same time, the official propaganda of the Nazis at the forefront of racial hygiene put precisely the economic effect of the destruction - the posters were full of relevant financial calculations. And the extensive racial purges within the Aryans did not come as a surprise to the German people. Back in the 1929 year, that is, before coming to power, Hitler broadcast in Nuremberg at a party congress:
“If in Germany a million children were born annually and 700-800 of the thousands of the weakest of them were eliminated, then in the end it would probably even lead to an increase in strength.”


In many ways, Hitler's decree on the deployment of the T4 program was also associated with the expectation of a large number of wounded from the fronts of World War II - extra bunks in the rear were vital. That is why the start date of euthanasia is 1 of September 1939 of the year, although the Fuhrer signed the order almost two months later. As part of the program, German doctors first worked out the killing of people in gas chambers and on automobile platforms. In Poland, in particular, one could see deadly vans with the inscription: "Imperial Coffee Gesheft."


Nonprofit Hospital Transport - Limited Liability Van (Gekrat)


The “brain center” of the T4 action was the branch of the Berlin Reich Chancellery at Tirgantenstrasse, 4, which is why the specific name of the program appeared. In fact, in most cases no examinations of patients were carried out - it was enough for three experts to write “inferior” on the basis of the patient’s questionnaire, and his fate was decided. Each doomed received the stamp of the Imperial Society of Medical Workers and Trustees, or RAG, which masked legalized euthanasia. By the way, euthanasia did not have any legal status. Hitler until the very end did not give justice permission to officially formalize the possibility of killing in the legal field of Germany.



Those sentenced to death were taken from hospitals in special vans of the Nonprofit Hospital Transport - Limited Liability Company (Gekrat), which were distinguished by tightly shaded windows. According to complex schemes, in order to confuse the locals, patients with intermediate stops were taken to Brandenburg, Pirn, Grafeneck and other places equipped with gas chambers. After the killing procedure, the bodies were cremated, and relatives wrote something like:
“We regret to inform you that on February 10 of 1940, your daughter (son, father, sister) unexpectedly died as a result of toxic diphtheria. Her (his) transfer to our medical institution was a wartime measure. ”


Many of these formulations did not suit and they began to dig deeper, bombarding the relevant departments with requests and complaints. Then, rumors began to circulate in the ministerial circles of the Third Reich about the wide popularity of the T4 program among the people, largely due to measures of excessive secrecy. Bishop von Galen added fuel, voicing the aspirations of millions of Germans:
“If it is permissible to eliminate useless people, what will happen to our brave warriors who will return with serious battle wounds, cripples, and invalids ?! Then, therefore, to kill us all when we are old and weak, and therefore useless. ”


Fear of the prospects of their own old age forced the burghers to raise their heads in a fair civil protest.

To be continued ...
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  1. +4
    3 October 2019 05: 29
    Fear of the prospects of their own old age forced the burghers to raise their heads in a fair civil protest.

    To be continued ...
    ... is this about Germany? ... winked
    1. +5
      3 October 2019 15: 12
      So where did these terms come from:
      1. "The age of survival."
      2. "The minimum wage."
      3. "Living wage."
      4. "Optimization."
  2. +11
    3 October 2019 05: 37
    Well, by the way, the ban on euthanasia (voluntary) is an o-very controversial topic. But unpopular, because no one will raise. Although the question is still more inhuman - euthanasia or draconian measures to limit, for example, narcotic painkillers for cancer patients. And others do not help ...
    1. +7
      3 October 2019 10: 54
      Quote: Uhu
      Well, by the way, the ban on euthanasia (voluntary) is an o-very controversial topic. But unpopular, because no one will raise. Although the question is still more inhuman - euthanasia or draconian measures to limit, for example, narcotic painkillers for cancer patients. And others do not help ...

      Oh yes, this is a very sore subject, it is almost impossible to get the necessary medications, and opiates in particular, I watched how a sick grandmother was "treated" by a friend
      1. +3
        3 October 2019 13: 54
        Quote: Vol4ara
        watched as a friend "treated" a sick grandmother

        That's right, in the spring the first father-in-law died of cancer.
  3. -7
    3 October 2019 07: 08
    There is still a little topic spoiled by a man who weightily said that medicine should be free. And most of the population of Europe, partially or completely forced their states to take this step.
    In ANY country with state. medicine, a narrow specialist is not given more than 20 minutes for the initial and subsequent meetings with patients. Of 20 minutes, at least 10 are spent on "scribbling" (to then make excuses that he is not a killer doctor). Out of 10 patients, at least 5 have caused diseases by their own way of life, their desires and passions and do not want to stop being sick. They only want comfort, to live without pain. Another 2 came to "talk". And a maximum of 3 really want to get rid of the disease.
    Given such an influx of patients, doctors and generally honey. there are still not enough workers. A doctor is an art, "hearing" must be, or talent. You can not teach anyone who wants to treat ..... but you have to. And here you are in the office not standing in front of prof. Transfiguration, or to the edge of Barmenthal, and in front of Sharikov ..... with a scalpel.
    Eugenics is perhaps the most cruel and simple attempt to break this vicious circle .. But there is still no solution. Insurance is not a solution, half measure, while the most profitable.
    IMHO. Everyone pays for his own mistakes, for the mistakes of others that have affected you - the state. If you want to drink vodka - pay for the treatment of cirrhosis. A chronic drunk brought you down on the road, the state pays for looking at the problem of this person. Start changing the system with the kind of house and kindergarten. Cum in the cemetery.
    1. +9
      3 October 2019 09: 26
      Quote: haron
      There is still a little topic spoiled by a man who weightily said that medicine should be free

      And paid medicine should, by definition, find the illness of the person who has applied, if he is healthy, he should still find it worse, and most importantly, more expensive, because everyone wants to earn money. Money is the death of qualified medicine, education.
      1. 0
        6 October 2019 08: 12
        Quote: qqqq
        And paid medicine should, by definition, find the illness of the person who has applied, if he is healthy, he should still find it worse, and most importantly, more expensive, because everyone wants to earn money.

        I wrote as it is "de jure". You write to me what it led to "de facto". What questions for me?
        Does this "de jure" not work the way you want? Read the answers below, your medicine, in its current state, will never become even 20% closer in quality to SSSrovskaya. Or you have the option to create a T4-type cleaning among doctors, and already go only to smart and ideological doctors.
        Quote: qqqq
        Money is the death of qualified medicine, education.

        Stop doctors and teachers generally paying salaries. Go to subsistence farming. And the professors, too, and plant all the scientific honey for carrot development, including joint international projects on medicine and education.
        1. 0
          7 October 2019 15: 17
          Quote: haron
          Stop doctors and teachers generally paying salaries. Go to subsistence farming. And the professors, too, and plant all the scientific honey for carrot development, including joint international projects on medicine and education.

          Here you have to pay a high salary, and remove all paid services, any appeal should be free, then there will be no incentive to spin for money, but at the same time official earnings should be quite large and most importantly everyone should answer with their own skin for the final result.
    2. -5
      3 October 2019 10: 34
      Quote: haron
      There is still a little topic spoiled by a man who weightily said that medicine should be free. And most of the population of Europe, partially or completely forced their states to take this step.
      In ANY country with state. medicine, a narrow specialist is not given more than 20 minutes for the initial and subsequent meetings with patients. Of 20 minutes, at least 10 are spent on "scribbling" (to then make excuses that he is not a killer doctor). Out of 10 patients, at least 5 have caused diseases by their own way of life, their desires and passions and do not want to stop being sick. They only want comfort, to live without pain. Another 2 came to "talk". And a maximum of 3 really want to get rid of the disease.
      Given such an influx of patients, doctors and generally honey. there are still not enough workers. A doctor is an art, "hearing" must be, or talent. You can not teach anyone who wants to treat ..... but you have to. And here you are in the office not standing in front of prof. Transfiguration, or to the edge of Barmenthal, and in front of Sharikov ..... with a scalpel.
      Eugenics is perhaps the most cruel and simple attempt to break this vicious circle .. But there is still no solution. Insurance is not a solution, half measure, while the most profitable.
      IMHO. Everyone pays for his own mistakes, for the mistakes of others that have affected you - the state. If you want to drink vodka - pay for the treatment of cirrhosis. A chronic drunk brought you down on the road, the state pays for looking at the problem of this person. Start changing the system with the kind of house and kindergarten. Cum in the cemetery.


      Interesting look. Plusan.
    3. +7
      3 October 2019 10: 57
      Quote: haron
      There is still a little topic spoiled by a man who weightily said that medicine should be free. And most of the population of Europe, partially or completely forced their states to take this step.
      In ANY country with state. medicine, a narrow specialist is not given more than 20 minutes for the initial and subsequent meetings with patients. Of 20 minutes, at least 10 are spent on "scribbling" (to then make excuses that he is not a killer doctor). Out of 10 patients, at least 5 have caused diseases by their own way of life, their desires and passions and do not want to stop being sick. They only want comfort, to live without pain. Another 2 came to "talk". And a maximum of 3 really want to get rid of the disease.
      Given such an influx of patients, doctors and generally honey. there are still not enough workers. A doctor is an art, "hearing" must be, or talent. You can not teach anyone who wants to treat ..... but you have to. And here you are in the office not standing in front of prof. Transfiguration, or to the edge of Barmenthal, and in front of Sharikov ..... with a scalpel.
      Eugenics is perhaps the most cruel and simple attempt to break this vicious circle .. But there is still no solution. Insurance is not a solution, half measure, while the most profitable.
      IMHO. Everyone pays for his own mistakes, for the mistakes of others that have affected you - the state. If you want to drink vodka - pay for the treatment of cirrhosis. A chronic drunk brought you down on the road, the state pays for looking at the problem of this person. Start changing the system with the kind of house and kindergarten. Cum in the cemetery.

      Specialists work 4 hours 1 time per week, it is not surprising that 20 minutes. And why not narrow specialists to sit at work for 8 hours 5 days a week, like all other people? Then it’s not possible to devote MB for 20 minutes, and the queues will disappear?
      1. +3
        3 October 2019 13: 57
        Quote: Vol4ara
        Specialists work 4 hours 1 time per week, it is not surprising that 20 minutes.

        And they always do not have coupons for analyzes and examinations, but they will do everything for a fee on the same day, and in the same office as the coupon.
        1. -1
          3 October 2019 14: 15
          Go work as a doctor, before that, study for ten years at the institute, you will stop bullshitting. Gently wrote, otherwise banned.
          1. +3
            3 October 2019 14: 30
            Quote: Ptolemy Lag
            Gently wrote, otherwise banned.

            So in PM can be tougher, or show off to our public is everything? wink
            Quote: Ptolemy Lag
            Go work as a doctor, before that, study for ten years at the institute, you will stop bullshitting.

            After all this, I will begin to understand why I should wait for a gastroendoscopy ticket for 8 months, and six months for an ultrasound scan? After that, I will have to understand why there are only mediocrity in polyclinics now, and for qualified help it is better to immediately contact a hospital, where is the chance to get it a little higher?
            If you want to be understood, express your thoughts less reflexively. hi
            1. -2
              3 October 2019 14: 46
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Why do I have to wait for a gastroendoscopy ticket for 8 months, and six months for an ultrasound?

              The monetary equivalent of a pair of tequila bottles is ultrasound and gastroscopy.

              And in general - it is harmful to thump laughing
              1. +1
                3 October 2019 14: 53
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                The monetary equivalent of a pair of tequila bottles is ultrasound and gastroscopy.

                You decided to help the state with providing it with its functions, and want to throw some money? belay
                Quote: Cat Man Null
                And in general - it is harmful to thump

                Moderately useful. wink
                1. 0
                  3 October 2019 15: 25
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Do you want to throw some money?

                  You? What hangover?

                  This is for you, not for me - enough for tequila, but not for ultrasound. You would have to think ... but you, as usual, prefer to whine and suffer wink

                  By the way, as we have already found out - you personally do not pay taxes ... but the "buns" in the form of free medicine (and not only) - take it out and put it down. And who are you after that, buddy?

                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Moderately useful

                  Nude nude Yes
                  1. +1
                    3 October 2019 15: 36
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    You? What hangover?

                    Well, suddenly you decide to become a good person? Although no, it does not threaten you. laughing
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    enough for tequila, but not for ultrasound. You would have to think ... but you, as usual, prefer to whine and suffer

                    I’m Kisa, I drink my moonshine, and I don’t spend on tequila. So you spoiled me once, albeit with a strain inherent in the hunks. And ultrasound is included in the compulsory medical insurance program. But you always demand what you must give? wink If you’re detained for half a year, then you’ll probably leave the substance known to everyone, right? bully
                    1. -2
                      3 October 2019 16: 19
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Ultrasound is included in the compulsory medical insurance program

                      What side are you to this program if in FOMS you do not pay? Is it clean here?

                      Just do not talk about VAT here again, okay? Wash again laughing
                      1. +1
                        3 October 2019 16: 36
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Just do not talk about VAT here again, okay?

                        Good kitty, move me aside, and take the usual hard worker working officially. From this, the waiting time for a coupon for ultrasound will decrease? Something your processor hangs on one task - to troll me. laughing For more RAM is not enough? wink So now there are plenty of preparations for the upgrade! wassat
                      2. -1
                        3 October 2019 17: 22
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        move me aside and take the usual hard worker working officially

                        And where are you? This is not a "hard worker" who is indignant here, but someone called "Ingvar", who does not officially work ... that's why the conversation with you is what it is - there is not much to respect you for now request

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        your processor hangs on one task - troll me

                        I have 4 tasks at work now, Ingvar. 2 of them are urgent ... you cannot imagine this, you are not given. Be afraid.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        now there are plenty of preparations to upgrade

                        Are you talking about tequila? This is for you, I do not drink at work laughing
                      3. 0
                        3 October 2019 18: 00
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Are you talking about tequila? This is for you, I do not drink at work

                        Alcohol will not help you anymore, you need something more specialized. What are the main characters from orange jars drinking in handfuls in American films? wink
                        Good flood Kitty, you wanted to sleep.
          2. +1
            3 October 2019 14: 48
            Quote: Ptolemy Lag
            Go work as a doctor, before that, study for ten years at the institute, you will stop bullshitting. Gently wrote, otherwise banned.

            We came to medicine for money, then you went to large private medical centers, such as Scandinavia in St. Petersburg, having previously invested a couple of millions in foreign congresses and master classes, only the mediocrity didn’t work there for more than 1 shift, and once you work hard at the clinic, then good 5 shifts per week for 8 hours. And how doctors get their education, in particular in the first honey, I am well aware, and not 10 years, but 6
            1. -2
              3 October 2019 16: 53
              Quote: Vol4ara
              Came to medicine for the dough,

              Let me know, but to engineers, police, firefighters, military ... and even to musicians, why do people go? Also for the dough, or just for the idea?
              In this case, indeed, the Doctor, several times a day, risks actually killing a person with his mistake .... during a heap of years, every day. And still worried about it.
              I think that the work of vocation, which should be done so that the life of this person, his family and the associated risks of this work, were adequately compensated.
              So that the doctor himself would not be ill, would not produce stressful children, choleric wives and other family members dripping on him for a permanent absence at home or a petty salary. If

              Quote: Vol4ara
              And how doctors get their education, in particular in the first honey, I am well aware, and not 10 years, but 6

              6 years is a crude theory in the medina, after which it is allowed to study in practice, this is an internship (I don’t know how long it lasts in Russia). Only then narrow specialization and admission to the patient's body.
              In liberal Europe, the doctor gains the right to write a prescription on his own after 11 years at least. And you must decide whether to cut it yourself or not after 13 years, and then with reinsurance.
              With a fright, (on the topic of the article), so that the doctors would not become moral freaks, they brought the shortage of medical personnel to 30-40% and expectations of planned operations for the year. They will not let die, but in the queue. And this is at least 10 - 15% of insurance from salary.
              Unfortunately, not one country in the world can pull completely free and high-quality medicine, and the presence of armed forces capable of independently defending independence. There are no such. Though crack. No at all Pirogov and Pokryshkin at the same time.
              1. +2
                3 October 2019 18: 10
                Quote: haron
                And still worried about it.

                In polyclinics, they do not risk anything. And most globally do not care if they made a mistake when prescribing treatment or not. Moreover, the same ENT specialist in our clinic manages to combine paid methods with free ones, without leaving the office. Name and number of the clinic can easily be called. And the manager either does not care, or in the subject.
                In a hospital, doctors are more literate, but they also cut loot. I'm talking about the medical center of Togliatti. Mother last year oncology operated.
                Quote: haron
                They will not let die, but in turn

                They often give examples. moreover personal.
                And globally, the state is to blame for all this, because it created such conditions that the doctor is forced to either quit or scotch and work only for loot. hi
                1. +1
                  4 October 2019 07: 59
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  In polyclinics, they do not risk anything.

                  Well, why, sometimes they risk it, and also with other lives. Only these spillovers are few, and doctors are sleepy.

                  I have a question. Why is it only in the topic of doctors that there is a question "he is not a doctor - he is for the loot", why is it that going to a concert and throwing out a small sum (in the cinema, to a car mechanic, ...) does not sound such high topics about morality? Well, bad locksmith, I will go to another, or I will no longer go to listen to this Pavarrotti.
                  And as doctors, it’s only loot and bad. In the comments generally does not pull positive. Sheer negativity, cons and not understanding that T4 continues with the hands and brains of the minus ones themselves.
                  1. -1
                    4 October 2019 08: 06
                    Quote: haron
                    Why is the question about doctors only a question

                    Because we seem to have free medicine, and doctors are on a salary. And all of the above you work on the price list.
                    Just imagine, you were robbed, you came to the police, and they tell you - "We will certainly look for crooks, but for money we will do it faster." How do you like this cost accounting? wink
                    1. 0
                      4 October 2019 16: 09
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Just imagine, you were robbed, you came to the police, and they tell you - "We will certainly look for crooks, but for money we will do it faster." How do you like this cost accounting?

                      And so it is.
                      Someone who suggested making jeditsin free said that - the state is an apparatus of violence against a person. And for the protection of this person, the state, from the beginning of its existence, demanded a tax, tribute .... the roof. Police and army You and everyone else pays a tax, official, for protection from the abuse of another person.
                      Recognized now all over the world, and for a long time in the USSR, the concept of "health" implies that it depends 40% on the lifestyle of the person himself, 30% on his genetics, and only 20% on the quality of medicine.
                      So every 8 people who come to complain to the "health police" will complain that he was robbed by himself - himself. Arrest yourself for smoking and eating poorly, being nervous, moving a little and not moving correctly, ...... at the end of which ischemic heart disease develops and not being able to work without pain. Although you, unlike the real police, were warned for a long time and for a long time, and everyone was forgiven, and you were taken to turma only when the "brains" completely refused to listen to the reason of science.
                      Come on, see yourself in the jail. There are only 8 overseers for 2 prisoners ... maybe.
                      1. 0
                        4 October 2019 18: 28
                        So why is this farce about free medicine?
                      2. +1
                        4 October 2019 20: 34
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        So why is this farce about free medicine?

                        This is not a farce.
                        This is the desire of the majority to receive and spend their health "for free". Do what you want, not what you can and is allowed. And then come to the "sculpting" and demand a magic pill that will correct all the "sins" of the body and brain.
                        Or easier. This is not a desire for the reward and punishment system of the brain to be in balance.
                        It’s hard to realize that for everything that’s happening to you, it’s bad for me to blame. And I myself must pay, by all accounts, and of course not money.
                      3. 0
                        5 October 2019 06: 22
                        Farce about free medicine, which the first persons of the state speak about. Let’s then completely cancel it, and remove the sheep’s skin from the wolf.
                        But while it is regulated as free, then be kind, do your job as expected.
                      4. 0
                        5 October 2019 08: 16
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        do your job as expected.

                        You still do not understand.
                        You cannot do the job "as expected" when the system is collapsed from start to finish.
                        And when the quality of the final product, the system employee is only 20% responsible, the rest is the product itself which has an undetermined degree of randomness.
                        Come and tell the doctors - this is bad, but you hold on, otherwise we will punish.
                        They have been told this for over 20 years.
                        In short. So go to your doctor and say what you wrote here. Look at his reaction.
                        Me and my wife were told this 10 years ago. I figured that with two children in our arms we would last half a year, exactly until spring. Moreover, I also had to "plant" the same doctors like me. There was no desire to fight or fall with the power. It's no better in a big homeland. Collected money from the VNA and where the system is not ideal but more or less adequate. Where people understand a little more and share the responsibility of the doctor and their own.
                        Unfortunately, countries with perfect medicine do not exist in the world.
                      5. +1
                        6 October 2019 22: 27
                        Quote: haron
                        You cannot do the job "as expected" when the system is collapsed from start to finish.

                        But you can stay human in this system. Although it’s hard. But it is precisely the tests that make us who we are? In determining the true nature of man?
                        Quote: haron
                        Come and tell the doctors - this is bad, but you hold on, otherwise we will punish.
                        They have been told this for over 20 years.

                        Is this a reason to impose paid services?
                        Quote: haron
                        Moreover, I also had to "plant" the same doctors like me.

                        Don’t be offended, but the collective bail of the doctors is the most evil. But what about the most valuable for the doctor - the health and life of the patient?
                        Yes, Sergey, I’m not enthusiastic about the system, but the rules are that you need to either bend under the system or break it. Personally, I do not blame you, for I consider myself to be also bent under the system, but in the field of education and medicine I consider such a deflection a crime.
                        P.S. Not once faced with the disregard of the doctors personally. Therefore, I am convinced that doctors need to pay a lot, but in case of errors and plant for a long time. And not only to doctors such rules should be applied. Must be responsible for their work.hi
                      6. 0
                        7 October 2019 07: 52
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        but the collective bail of the doctors is the most evil.

                        I agree.
                        The only thing that needs to be done is to distinguish between cases where the “covering” doctor refuses to blame a friend simply because he does not know full information about the situation. For as he wrote, a doctor in reality can not do much.
                        And for the obvious slovenliness with two hands. It is better to take only two people for 4 hours, but with benefit.
                        By the way. A doctor has the right to refuse assistance to a person if he does not have a direct threat to life, requiring the use of emergency medical care. If the doctor sees that his knowledge and efforts are NOT sufficient to provide qualified long-term quality medical care that will lead to recovery or release of the patient from pain or suffering.
                        DO NO HARM! don't make it worse! This is the main thing for a normal doctor.

                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Therefore, I am convinced that doctors need to pay a lot, but in case of errors and plant for a long time.

                        The question is where to start. With to pay, or to plant? To this add a third party - the patient, who (in the majority) also has to change his attitude towards himself and medicine.
                        hi
                      7. 0
                        9 October 2019 18: 01
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Come and tell the doctors - this is bad, but you hold on, otherwise we will punish.
                        They have been told this for over 20 years.

                        Is this a reason to impose paid services?

                        By the way, about this phrase. Just as advice, such as how to survive in modern medicine, the post of the USSR.
                        Take a look. Insurance company, or state. a system for planning health care costs should be based on some standards: a list of laboratory tests, drugs, the prices of equipment and consumables, their sequence and degree of reliability of the result for further, more complex actions ... in short, what is not included in the salary of a doctor and the rest is honey and not honey staff. (In the Czech Republic, where my wife and I work as doctors, this is about 70% of the costs of the Ministry of Health, and salaries for people are 20%, the rest is science).
                        So here. And insurance and (or) state. always looking for what is cheaper and more efficient. From the moment of introducing a new method of treatment (diagnosis or the entire chain of getting rid of an ailment), until its adoption by the insurance company, approximately 10-20 years pass. As in any man-made system, the volume of a product reduces its price, namely, the medical services market has long been the most globalized system in the world. This means that countries that are poorer (but with normal medicine) are waiting for the product to become mass in rich countries and then begin to use it.

                        Why is this all.
                        If a doctor, having seen someone’s cardiogram, having listened to an anamnesis and complaints, urgently recommends or imposes this person on a paid medical center, makes selective coronarography for money with the possibility (based on its results) of installing stents in narrowed coronary vessels; so, this does not mean at all that he wants to remove the loot for it (although it may not be without it).
                        This means that it saves you from insurance or state standards by which you have to chew tablets for months ..... completely pointless in a particular case. they don’t pay otherwise.
                      8. +1
                        5 October 2019 19: 28
                        And another ten percent?
                      9. +1
                        5 October 2019 21: 06
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        And another ten percent?

                        Ecology.
                        I honestly admit that I did not specifically voice these 10%. For they "walk" + - 5% depending on the country, and depend on ... well, I will say "national attitude" to nature. Waited for this question. They are always in conjunction with the lifestyle of a particular person. For man and nation are inseparable.
                        Good luck Sergey.
                        We are of the same name and one year. God forbid we meet at the table in the meadow with a smile, and not ... I am sure that we will speak the same "language" and understand each other.
                        hi
                      10. +1
                        5 October 2019 21: 15
                        Thank you for your reply!
  4. +3
    3 October 2019 08: 00
    The Germans can be understood, but not justified: it is nice to consider yourself an Aryan, and others a non-profit, respectively, to decide who is worthy of life and who is not. And the result was logical, Berlin is in ruins. Any life, especially human, is given by the creator. Suicide, let alone murder, is a grave sin. A man must live his life, whatever it may be, all the more in his hands.
    1. +1
      3 October 2019 11: 03
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      The Germans can be understood, but not justified: it is nice to consider yourself an Aryan, and others a non-profit, respectively, to decide who is worthy of life and who is not. And the result was logical, Berlin is in ruins. Any life, especially human, is given by the creator. Suicide, let alone murder, is a grave sin. A man must live his life, whatever it may be, all the more in his hands.

      You speak from the point of view of religion, the followers of eugenics acted from the point of view of science.
      1. -1
        3 October 2019 14: 04
        Quote: Vol4ara
        You speak from the point of view of religion, the followers of eugenics acted from the point of view of science.

        From what point of view does a Tajik mother of many children enter the mountain village, personally killing a sixth child born of a freak, and then burying him at night? She is an uneducated but faithful Muslim?
        The casket just opens - if they find out that they were in the family in the village, then none of the five older children will marry and will not marry in this village or in the surrounding ones. The harsh prose of life and eugenics in its purest form without any ideology. hi
      2. +1
        3 October 2019 14: 19
        Quote: Vol4ara
        Quote: Ali Kokand
        The Germans can be understood, but not justified: it is nice to consider yourself an Aryan, and others a non-profit, respectively, to decide who is worthy of life and who is not. And the result was logical, Berlin is in ruins. Any life, especially human, is given by the creator. Suicide, let alone murder, is a grave sin. A man must live his life, whatever it may be, all the more in his hands.

        You speak from the point of view of religion, the followers of eugenics acted from the point of view of science.

        Something savage in this science
        1. -1
          3 October 2019 15: 04
          Quote: vladcub
          Quote: Vol4ara
          Quote: Ali Kokand
          The Germans can be understood, but not justified: it is nice to consider yourself an Aryan, and others a non-profit, respectively, to decide who is worthy of life and who is not. And the result was logical, Berlin is in ruins. Any life, especially human, is given by the creator. Suicide, let alone murder, is a grave sin. A man must live his life, whatever it may be, all the more in his hands.

          You speak from the point of view of religion, the followers of eugenics acted from the point of view of science.

          Something savage in this science

          The desire for natural selection, it is hard to understand guided by the principles of morality, but as it is not funny it does not contribute to the health of mankind as a species. Although the latest advances in genetic engineering, in particular CRISPR / Cas9, will probably save us from many genetic diseases ... Either blacks and islanders will not reach our progress in breaking the genome to canine crap and raising humanity
      3. -1
        3 October 2019 16: 49
        Quote: Vol4ara
        You speak from the point of view of religion, the followers of eugenics acted from the point of view of science.

        Eugenics may be a science, but use science as an excuse for murder and murder if the topic is self-serving (that is, unload the state from unjustified in his opinion expenses for treatment, maintenance of patients, release funds and resources for the restoration of supposedly wounded in the future, which confirms by the way the intentions of this state to wage war of aggression, again for mercenary purposes) so such a state does not have the right to exist, or, to put it another way, the government of such a state has its own place on the ground face.
        1. +1
          3 October 2019 21: 27
          Quote: Jura
          Quote: Vol4ara
          You speak from the point of view of religion, the followers of eugenics acted from the point of view of science.

          Eugenics may be a science, but use science as an excuse for murder and murder if the topic is self-serving (that is, unload the state from unjustified in his opinion expenses for treatment, maintenance of patients, release funds and resources for the restoration of supposedly wounded in the future, which confirms by the way the intentions of this state to wage war of aggression, again for mercenary purposes) so such a state does not have the right to exist, or, to put it another way, the government of such a state has its own place on the ground face.

          Eugenics is not a science
          1. 0
            3 October 2019 21: 56
            Quote: Vol4ara
            Eugenics is not a science

            Quote: Vol4ara
            followers of eugenics acted in terms of science.

            Quote: Jura
            Eugenics maybe science
            Claims that Eugenics science is neither you nor I, or I did not understand something?
  5. +2
    3 October 2019 09: 07
    Thanks for the article, interesting. We look forward to continuing.
  6. +1
    3 October 2019 12: 41
    A film was shot on this story, by the way voiced in Russian. There, Christian social activists, to convince the Nazis to stop the killing of incurable invalids, cited the following example: if a soldier accomplished a feat in a war and became seriously mentally disabled after a serious injury, can he be killed too?
    1. -2
      3 October 2019 14: 07
      Quote: gsev
      and if a soldier accomplished a feat in a war and became seriously mentally disabled after a serious injury, can he be killed too?

      Not in defense of inferior killings - the difference between an acquired mutilation and a congenital one is enormous.
      1. +2
        3 October 2019 16: 36
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Not in defense of inferior killings

        In the film, an SS officer and his wife do not have a soul in their daughter and send her to a sanatorium for treatment. As a result, the daughter is killed as mentally disabled. If a state, instead of a person and his family, decides how to live, raise children, what goals to set in life, how to develop, then such a state poses a threat to humanity .. Of course, I’m talking about normal people of different cultures, maybe with extraordinary customs (and not about criminals maniacs). Then, as a result of injury, a person can become violent. Some do not approve that killers of maniacs are sent to psychiatric hospitals and not executed, then maybe this is also a protective tradition from the degeneration of medicine and the state into a criminal society.
        In general, if society is concerned about the health of its members, then a cheaper means is timely diagnosis, compliance with sanitary standards in hospitals, closure of dens, a real fight against drug addiction, alcoholism. Here Putin was led by the desire of journalists to make money on advertising non-alcoholic beer, and after 10 years, doctors and nurses in hospitals should serve patients who had previously admitted to this advertising and became immoral drunks, knowing that such a patient could infect them with hepatitis, gonorrhea, deprive, fungal infection or oncovirus.
        1. 0
          3 October 2019 16: 40
          Quote: gsev
          If a state, instead of a person and his family, decides how to live, raise children, what goals to set in life, how to develop, then such a state poses a threat to humanity.

          How is ours? wink About the advertisement of non-alcoholic beer, by the way, you have successfully noticed. Advertising it on all channels at each break, and in stores only alcoholic counterparts. Hidden advertising, and the state is sleeping, because you need to somehow maintain the loyalty of the media.
          1. +1
            3 October 2019 16: 42
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            How is ours?

            How is Russia more totalitarian than Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania?
            1. 0
              3 October 2019 17: 06
              Quote: gsev
              How is Russia more totalitarian than Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania?

              I won’t talk about Ukraine, but the Balts are much better off with the indigenous population than our state is towards the nation-forming people.
              In general, you should not focus on other countries in this matter. It is necessary to provide measures to improve the life and well-being of citizens, including those that you mentioned.
              1. 0
                5 October 2019 23: 26
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                than our state to the state-forming people.

                My friend does not belong to the "state-forming" Russian people, but her youth was spent in the 2nd Chechen war. Her predecessor in the service was burned by Chechen flamethrowers. Probably the state should evaluate its citizens by merit, and not by belonging to the chosen people. If the Baltic states discriminate against non-Baltic states, then the oppressed have the right to fight such a state.
        2. 0
          3 October 2019 19: 24
          Non-alcoholic beer in which there are no degrees. But as far as I know people, they ALL BUY TRADITIONAL BEER.
  7. +3
    3 October 2019 12: 55
    Our Minister of Health is successfully reducing the number of citizens who do not have money, cleaner than any fascist regime. No eugenics will keep up with the Government.
    1. +2
      3 October 2019 14: 22
      Quite right: the government can come up with this ....
  8. +2
    3 October 2019 17: 30
    "von Galen's influence on the masses was so great that even the Gestapo did not dare to touch the" Muenster lion "here is somewhat different: Hitler did not want to particularly offend the Vatican. The politician -" taking advantage of himself (Machiavelli?). The Vatican did not have any special claims to Hitler, and the name of the highest interests of the Gestapo "turned a blind eye" to the bishop.
    White Rose "was not under the auspices of the Vatican, the Gestapo on them" "won back"
  9. 0
    5 October 2019 16: 02
    Another order by the god of the elect. Reading is unpleasant - the author does not allow the reader to draw conclusions himself. But everything actually looks a lot different. Both in the late and early USSR, much of eugenics took place. It’s just not advertised. There was no such shaft of sick children.

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