In Ukraine: When Steinmeier’s formula is fulfilled, the country will fall apart like a house of cards

In Ukraine, the information that the representative of Kiev put his signature on a document called the Steinmeier formula was rapidly received. The document involves a ceasefire in the Donbass, the withdrawal of troops, as well as the subsequent holding of local elections.

If in the People’s Republics of Donbass the agreements reached in Minsk were called the first step towards a possible peace, in Kiev more and more often the threats from the radicals to the peace process are heard.

Representatives of extremist National Battalions, who are invited to social-political talk show studios, are especially rampant.
So, the former People’s Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, the ex-leader of the assault company of the national battalion “Aydar” (an extremist organization is banned in the Russian Federation) Igor Lapin on Ukrainian TV said that the fulfillment of Steinmeier’s formula in Kiev will lead to the collapse of Ukraine “like a house of cards”.

"Aidarovets" stated that "everything is to blame" for the condition of special status (LPR and DPR). According to Lapin, the next may appear, for example, the Volyn People’s Republic, "some Galician-Volyn principality."

Meanwhile, some experts in Russia express the idea that Steinmeier’s formula does not actually mean the collapse of Ukraine, but the cessation of even discussing the ideas of New Russia, which was discussed so much in 2014.

In the “60 minutes” program on TC “Russia 1”, a statement was made that the fulfillment of Steinmeier’s formula would mean the following: no republics of Donbass, no heads of republics.

From the program:

Pushilin at best will remain the mayor of Donetsk. But with the subordination of these territories to Kiev, how long will he stay in this post? ..

Comments

[Chaldon48]

So it’s not clear who signed this agreement and what is its essence?

[Vladimir16]

When Steinmeier’s formula is fulfilled, the country will fall apart like a house of cards

What is approaching the end of this fascist state?

Here recently, one person said that Ukraine was lost for Russia.

Do not say gop.

[Vladimir16]

The signing of this document suggests that nothing lasts forever under the moon.
You should not make hasty conclusions, but everything is changing, and people and power and people's attitude to each other.

[Stas157]

Those who argued that the Minsk conspiracy is a victory, not a drain of the Donbass, stoked their thought by saying that these agreements would never be fulfilled. By signing the Stanmeier formula, the Ukrainians took a major step towards the fact that the Donbass would indeed become part of Ukraine. I do not see a reason for joy.

P.S. One of the next steps under this plan is the taking of the borders of Donbass and Russia under their control by Bandera.

[Dietmar]

Signing is the first step. The second is execution, or failure.
Fulfillment is at least a ceasefire and a withdrawal of troops.
Failure - and the new government led by the president will be completely toxic to those countries that are still supporting it afloat.
In any case, Donbass will not be worse.

[Stas157]

Quote: Dietmar

In any case, Donbass will not be worse.

And what will follow when the Ukrainian troops take control of the border of Donbass and Russia, according to the signed documents? On the implementation of further points, in terms of a certain autonomy, you just have to forget. Bandera will further restore their order.

[RussianRu]

https://strana.ua/news/225257-formula-shtajnmajera-dlja-donbassa-chto-podpisala-ukraina-v-minske.html

[Antares]

Quote: Russian

https://strana.ua/news/225257-formula-shtajnmajera-dlja-donbassa-chto-podpisala-ukraina-v-minske.html

Please note that the publication Country Yua is an opposition platform. The main part of the readers is east, south, center.
And if you read the entire Ukrainian press, you can find different reactions and analytics (from Poroshenko, from nationalists, from opposition, from volunteers, etc.) and all are different.
In general, the country of Yua just highlighted the reaction of the main persons in the Ukrainian segment. (Even minimized by nationalists and Poroshenko)

[dauria]

And what will follow when the Ukrainian troops take control of the border of Donbass and Russia, according to the signed documents?

This (border) is not in the "document", do not compose. Zelensky insists on this, and before the elections. That is, he is no longer going to execute the formula in the order in which the points are there.
Actually, everything depends on Donbass, its authorities and residents. Well, and from our desire to "put pressure" on Kiev.

[Stas157]

Quote: dauria

This (boundaries) in the "document" no don't compose.

Here, Boris led six steps, showed in Russia. I hope you do not question it? If you have links to an official document, please provide. The sixth step, look carefully.

Quote: Boris55

Quote: Chaldon48

what is its essence?

[dauria]

Here, Boris led six steps, showed in Russia.

Nice picture Only this is not a document, but a simplified presentation of Minsk -2.
You won’t even hold the elections, because first you need to change the constitution and determine what kind of pieces these are, with the power endowed with what powers remain in Kiev. And with the consent of Donbass. And if there is a point - 1 outpost
with ensign, soldier and local dog ? And no more ? And the Ministry of Internal Affairs is subordinate to the local president and parliament?
In a word, everything remains in place. If all warriors of all stripes are taken away, it’s already good.

[Stas157]

Quote: dauria

Nice picture

Yes! On the channel Russia. Do you think Skabeeva is lying again ??)) But you, in confirming your words, didn’t bring anything at all, not even a beautiful picture.

Quote: dauria

Only this is not a document, but a simplified presentation of Minsk -2.

Why so sure? Take a look at the top picture, there is white on black: Steinmeier formula. So now you are composing, not me.

[dauria]

Take a look at the top picture, there is white on black: Steinmeier formula.

Well, here's how to argue with you? The saying "It is written on the barn ... and there is firewood"? Well this is a TV picture! Everything that is officially published is signed texts from the parties. "What to do on a temporary basis, where to start"

here is our Gryzlov ...

[Stas157]

Quote: dauria

On the barn it says ... and there is firewood "? Well this is a TV picture!

Actually, this is the main mouthpiece of the country, the state channel Russia, and not a barn with firewood, as you write.

Quote: dauria

here is our Gryzlov

Thank you for trying to bring something. True, I could not read anything there. The picture is in poor quality.

[Cat man null]

Stasik, you slow down:

the text of the formula does not say anything about the procedure for Ukraine to establish control over the border of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Lugansk people's republics and Russia

 Full text of Steinmeier formula published

https://lenta.ru/news/2019/10/02/published/

And here there are even pictures of pieces of paper:

 The full text of the Steinmeier formula appeared, signed by Kuchma

https://www.obozrevatel.com/abroad/poyavilsya-polnyij-tekst-formulyi-shtajnmajera-podpisannyij-kuchmoj.htm

Quote: Stas157

Take a look at the top picture, there is white on black: Steinmeier formula. So now you compose, not me

Yeah ... I caught Ivan the prince a frog, and let's marry her (s).

PS: but the fact that the local robot is cutting "Kuschmoth "to" Kui "- really amused

[Chaldon48]

Did Russia participate in the signing of this document according to the Stannmeier formula?

[Antares]

Quote: Chaldon48

Did Russia participate in the signing of this document according to the Stannmeier formula?

Signed all participants: Ukraine, republics, Russia and the OSCE.

[Dietmar]

Quote: Stas157

And what will follow when the Ukrainian troops take control of the border of Donbass and Russia, according to the signed documents? On the implementation of further points, in terms of a certain autonomy, you just have to forget. Bandera will further restore their order.

You, my friend, are either simply off topic or you are intentionally throwing nonsense. The border will be transferred to Russia ONLY by the people's police of the DPR and LPR!

[Stas157]

Quote: Dietmar

The border will be transferred to Russia ONLY by the people's police of the DPR and LPR!

Where is it fixed? Bring. So far, all discussions have been only about control of Ukraine’s border itself. And then I am against the very idea of ​​returning the Donbass to the bosom of Bandera Ukraine, in any capacity.

[Looking for]

And as the mayor of Dnepropetrovsk.pan Filatov said .- "We will hang." The Kiev regime will act cunningly to restore the "legitimate" Ukrainian law and order. Illegal military formations such as Aydar and Right Sector will be sent so that in case of accusations of mass murders. Kiev answered Europe -this is supposedly not our army. this is a type of illegal formation. Eh.Rossiya.Rossiya.soih.russkikh. "you merge."

[Zdishek]

Putin will not be forgiven for this)))

[APASUS]

Quote: Stas157

By signing the Stanmeier formula, the Ukrainians took a major step towards the fact that the Donbass would indeed become part of Ukraine.

Do you really believe that the Donbass will be able to hold elections without complaints from Ukraine? They can’t figure it out inside the country, and here the elections in the uncontrolled part of the country, but they don’t recognize it in life. They have no decree from the OSCE!

Quote: Stas157

P.S. One of the next steps under this plan is the taking of the borders of Donbass and Russia under their control by Bandera.

This is by the way the last point, before that there is an amnesty, recognition of the elected heads of regions, the formation of the Ministry of Internal Affairs from former "militants"
The country is more likely to really fall apart than a number of comrades recognize such power in the Donbass

[Chaldon48]

I think we need to recognize the independence of LDNR and conclude an agreement on mutual assistance.

[Proxima]

Fuck with these statuses, the main thing is that people (Slavs) stop killing each other. I have sisters, one lives in the Ukrainian Donbass (Svetlodarsk is just the demarcation line), the second is Torez (DPR). Grave of Parents - a neutral strip (the village of Luganka). Five years already such a hell. How to already see the light at the end of the tunnel!

[Chaldon48]

I am afraid that without decisive action to force peace, peace between Kiev and LDN cannot be seen.

[Oleg (Kharkov)]

Quote: Proxima

Fuck with these statuses, the main thing is that people (Slavs) stop killing each other.

do not stop. not for this in 1991 the country was ruined, alas.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: Vladimir16

What is approaching the end of this fascist state?

yeah, we’ve been approaching for the fifth year already. We are all waiting for it to freeze, fall apart, collapse the economy .... But it lives on.

[demo]

May I continue your words?
If HELP does not freeze, does not fall apart, does not collapse, it will live.
Conclusions?

[Dangerous]

If Zelensky is not stupid, then most likely he will simply lure the inhabitants of LDNR with all sorts of pluses (thanks to the wide autonomy of these republics) and after 5 years the residents themselves will admit that in 2014 they shed blood for an idea that our simply did not treacherously support. As a result, even in the eastern regions of Ukraine (Donetsk and Lugansk) there will be anti-Russian sentiments.

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Dangerous

residents will admit that in vain in 2014 they shed blood for an idea that our simply did not treacherously support. As a result, even in the eastern regions of Ukraine (Donetsk and Lugansk) there will be anti-Russian sentiments.

I fully share your opinion. Betrayal from those who were believed is unlikely to be forgiven and forgotten, all the more quickly. And even more so considering the kind of victims and deprivations suffered by the inhabitants of Donbass. But it turns out only to return to Ukraine.

[novel66]

and crap .. and stink ..

[Den717]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

But it lives.

But worse and worse.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

I don’t know how the implementation of this “foomula” will end, but I’m sure that for another 200 years the haremans will be sobbing at the mere mention of the Donbass!

[orionvitt]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

And it lives

Yes, but worse and worse. And he doesn’t even live, but barely breathes. Like a man eaten up by cancer. It seems still alive, but not a tenant.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

We are all waiting for it to freeze, fall apart, collapse the economy .... But it lives on.

The Slavs there are just like us (though with a shift), and they are used to all the frosts, famines and other troubles. This is where we must proceed.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: Nyrobsky

Do you want "it" to fall apart in a year?

I'm generally an opponent of anything to destroy. It’s just that from TVs they pour into our ears all kinds of forecasts that do not come true and, most likely, do not come true. And why do we need the collapse of Ukraine?

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Quote: Vladimir16
What is approaching the end of this fascist state?

yeah, we’ve been approaching for the fifth year already. We are all waiting for it to freeze, fall apart, collapse the economy ... But it lives on.

Well, you can live in different ways. They have a "life before 2014" and a "life after 2014". So this is the life that "before" will never return to them, but the one that "after" clearly demonstrates the processes that you have listed, i.e. freezes, falls apart, the economy collapses... Do you want "it" to fall apart in a year? It is necessary to try very hard, which is inaccessible even to the Ukrainians, although they are making considerable efforts to collapse the country, in which they have achieved not small "successes". Only now it is thought that they will not be given external forces to finish off their country, only for the reason that almost every country has its own territorial claims to its neighbors and its own Catalonia, Ireland, Scotland and Texas. The division of Urk Ain will give an impetus to the unwinding of separatism in Europe, which those in power strongly fear. So it is very likely that the LDNR will remain within the borders of Urkayin, but in the form of a confederation, and therefore, in which case, they will always be able to raise the question of their withdrawal.

[Voyager]

She is lost. A country is always people who inhabit it. And most of the population of Ukraine is a neighbor whom you will not wish for the enemy.

And prematurely rejoice at something or not worth it. This “formula” can not be followed in exactly the same way as the Minsk agreements.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Voyager

And most of the population of Ukraine is a neighbor whom you will not wish for the enemy.

A hungry neighbor, worse than a neighbor.

[Nymp]

I don't understand such joy. In general, consent to this so-called "shtan-ra formula" is nothing more than a betrayal of Novorossiya and those who shed blood for it. Let with a special status, but Donbass will be obliged to submit to Kiev, and therefore accept the Nazi ideology of Bandera and Shukhevych! And the children of Donbass will learn history from the Russophobic textbooks of Kiev? Or will Ukraine allow you to study it in Russian? What are you happy about?

[garrett]

Although with a special status, the Donbass will have to submit to Kiev, and therefore accept the Nazi ideology of Bandera and Shukhevych!

first you read this formula, and then poke the keys with a smart face))) formula w is essentially a roadmap for fulfilling Minsk2, which means de jure and de facto the broadest autonomy of the Donbas with its militia (consider your own aircraft), their courts, their humanitarian and economic politics (this is about the issue of Bandera and Shukhevych), etc.
Another question is whether the potion will perform these steps according to this formula ...

[Nymp]

And still no New Russia, right? And the absence of its own constitution ?! Any, even the broadest autonomy, should not go against the state constitution, something should connect this autonomy with the state? "you first read this formula, and then poke the keys with a smart face))) formula w is essentially a roadmap for the implementation of Minsk2," everyone already knows how the holoparliament changes the constitution. With a clever look, you stumbled upon me, but ultimately all the same submission to Kiev? For this, the heroes of Donbass died under the flag of New Russia?

[Honest Citizen]

And yet, no New Russia, right?

All right Boris. There will be no New Russia. DLNR is simply "crammed" into 404, even if suddenly The DLNR will receive the "broadest" autonomy - the Rada will both accept and repeal this law. Who will control? And this will be a real internal affair of Ukraine. We all know perfectly well how the world community turns a blind eye to what is beneficial for it. So after the "pushing in", "cleansing", "repression" and so on will begin. And then, quietly, they will "flood" the Republic with radicals, and arrange something like torch processions. Television, again, will brainwash the population ...
In a word, Russia "merged" Novorossiya. Rather, not Russia, but those who now "lead" us.

[garrett]

Any, even the broadest autonomy, should not go against the state constitution

smiled))) you did not take my advice and did not read the formula w and minsk2, which provides for a constitutional change so that without coordination with the Donbass it could not be played back
ps Boris, don’t be angry, I didn’t mean to offend you

[Stas157]

Quote: Garrett

means de jure and de facto the broadest autonomy of the Donbas ...
Another question is whether the potion will perform these steps according to this formula ...

Of course it won't. But as soon as the Donbass takes control, it won’t be right away! And the rest will only have to moan, de again deceived us ...

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Garrett

Although with a special status, the Donbass will have to submit to Kiev, and therefore accept the Nazi ideology of Bandera and Shukhevych!

first you read this formula, and then poke the keys with a smart face))) formula w is essentially a roadmap for fulfilling Minsk2, which means de jure and de facto the broadest autonomy of the Donbas with its militia (consider your own aircraft), their courts, their humanitarian and economic politics (this is about the issue of Bandera and Shukhevych), etc.
Another question is whether the potion will perform these steps according to this formula ...

Yes Yes Yes. I beat everyone, we won, hurray! Donbass is "happy".
And recall how many similar documents, with joyful facial expressions and raised fingers in the form of lat. The letters Victoria was signed and what did all this turn into later? How is Kosovo (and not only Kosovo) doing?

As soon as they cross the border and place Kiev their people in key places - EVERYTHING, you can safely wipe yourself with this formula. Or with a battle across the border? Yeah, I believe.

[garrett]

Yes Yes Yes. I beat everyone, we won, hurray! Donbass is "happy".

there are no winners in the civil war ... don’t be foolish

How is Kosovo (and not only Kosovo) doing?

I don’t know, I wasn’t interested, but they are already playing in the UEFA qualifying matches, and in my opinion they are also in the pass

As soon as they cross the border and place Kiev their people in key places

if the DNR allows it, then Vae victis ... I do not think it is possible

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Garrett

Yes Yes Yes. I beat everyone, we won, hurray! Donbass is "happy".

there are no winners in the civil war ... don’t be foolish

How is Kosovo (and not only Kosovo) doing?

I don’t know, I wasn’t interested, but they are already playing in the UEFA qualifying matches, and in my opinion they are also in the pass

As soon as they cross the border and place Kiev their people in key places

if the DNR allows it, then Vae victis ... I do not think it is possible

there are no winners in the civil war

This is how to look. White versus red, as if there was no winning side?
Victory in the civil war, since you yourself do not want to understand this, determines the further path of the country's development. And that's a fact. Since our history (of Russia) does not teach many people anything, then please, the example of Spain. War between Republicans and supporters of General Franco. Franco won, became an ally of Nazi Germany, and if the Republicans had won. There are doubts, whose allies they would become (Soviet volunteers in Spain)? Here is such a "sheer trifle" in response to your

there are no winners in the civil war

And if we talk about the civil war, then this question cannot be reduced to Ukraine alone. Because this is all the continuation and the result of the collapse of the common state - the USSR. And therefore, to say that this is an internal affair of Ukraine alone is not correct. The Russian Federation, as the largest fragment of a once common country, is directly (for example, a base in Transnistria, Armenia, Abkhazia, etc.) or indirectly involved in these seemingly unrelated conflicts. But there is a common connection between these conflicts - these are ethnicities mixed during the existence of the USSR.

Of course, unlike me, you may well not be foolish enough to find positive in the current situation in Ukraine. Because if you wait, then everything will undoubtedly gradually settle down, to the delight of one of the parties. Whoever is needed will be multiplied by zero, who can be re-educated, "re-educated." But why are you so sure that the winning side will certainly be grateful to you, and will not remember all the grievances when they resolve this issue?

PS Oh yes, I forgot about history lessons that were not learned, about Kosovo

I don’t know, I wasn’t interested, but they are already playing in the UEFA qualifying matches, and in my opinion they are also in the pass

Well, after that we will assume that the Serbs, especially the Kosovars, are now "happy". The queue for Donbass.

[garrett]

you understand what I mean)))) corpses, a destroyed country, economy, loss of territories, i.e. in the end, everyone loses .... why is this footcloth ???? dispute for the sake of argument ???

[Leshy1975]

Quote: Garrett

you understand what I mean)))) corpses, a destroyed country, economy, loss of territories, i.e. in the end, everyone loses .... why is this footcloth ???? dispute for the sake of argument ???

Yes, I understand your train of thought. But I think differently. In my understanding, in such actions (as for example we see in Ukraine), there should be a sense and purpose. Which, no matter how trivial and cynical it sounds, will justify those sacrifices for which ALREADY someone went voluntarily, and someone was doomed by force majeure circumstances. And just like that - let's fight a little and go back to the initial ones, as if something hadn’t happened, I strongly disagree with this approach. And I will not mention (maybe just not familiar with such facts) what would happen in history. Usually, after a temporary lull, yet one of the parties then gets the upper hand, even if not by open large-scale military operations.
Therefore, the question is - what was all this for? For me personally, it remains.

PS There is nothing worse than unfinished business.

[orionvitt]

Don’t rush. Ukraine has not yet fulfilled a single contract or promise.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Nymp

And will the children of Donbass learn history from the Russophobic textbooks of Kiev?

Well, this is still half the trouble, when they will force to praise the heroes of the ATO and the National Battalions, and those who killed their parents and sisters with the brothers of these children, this cannot be worse than that, "blasphemy" will sound like a pleasant word. There is only one word "animal sadism".

[Karabin]

Quote: Nymp

What are you happy about?

Act of betrayal.

[210ox]

No, it’s not coming .. If it still hasn’t collapsed, then it won’t fall apart either. But people from the Donbass will have to leave. Unfortunately. The ashes of the dead only beats in the heart.

[Andrey Chistyakov]

I will answer your words as well.
The fifth year of the LPR-DPR stand. And ukro-warriors can’t do anything with them.

[210ox]

Why do these warriors die? You judge for yourself when everything can be returned through negotiations. Count how many wonderful people died during this time in LDNR? But you could solve the issue five years ago ..

[Andrey Chistyakov]

Quote: 210ox

Why do these warriors die? You judge for yourself when everything can be returned through negotiations. Count how many wonderful people died during this time in LDNR? But you could solve the issue five years ago ..

Now then what about it. Not you alone feel sorry for the people.
But the Croatian scenario will not work. Experience is already.

[Karabin]

Quote: Andrey Chistyakov

But the Croatian scenario will not work.

Croatian no. Will pass Serbian-Montenegrin. With the surrender of their Milosevic-Karadziches and the drift towards "European values".

[Looking for]

but we all understand perfectly. why Ukraine is powerless to do something with the Republics.

[Andrey Chistyakov]

Quote: Seeker

but we all understand perfectly. why Ukraine is powerless to do something with the Republics.

Of course. We’ll give back to Donbass, then they will want Crimea.

[shark]

I would have your optimism. Ukraine is indeed lost for Russia in the foreseeable future. Russia simply has nothing, in fact, to offer Ukraine. The image attractiveness of our country was brought to naught by bureaucrats and officials. Excessive regulation of small business in Russia will also not add to our liking. After all, it is precisely small and "ultra-small" businesses that interrupt the bulk of Ukrainians. I'm not talking about Ukraine now. I'm talking about Russia now, if that.

[Andrey Chistyakov]

Quote: shark

I would have your optimism. Ukraine is indeed lost for Russia in the foreseeable future. Russia simply has nothing, in fact, to offer Ukraine. The image attractiveness of our country was brought to naught by bureaucrats and officials. Excessive regulation of small business in Russia will also not add to our liking. After all, it is precisely small and "ultra-small" businesses that interrupt the bulk of Ukrainians. I'm not talking about Ukraine now. I'm talking about Russia now, if that.

It's funny to read you to God. It was necessary to deal with Ukraine earlier.
They kept him for 28 years. How did they shout that they were feeding us ?! They live separately for 5 years. And they cannot feed themselves. They run to the "Ahressor" and from their country. What I have lost, I do not argue. And she needs such a Ukraine ?!

[shark]

We did not discuss the need for Ukraine. The question was whether we lost Ukraine or not. Do we need it or not. Second question

[Andrey Chistyakov]

Quote: shark

We did not discuss the need for Ukraine. The question was whether we lost Ukraine or not. Do we need it or not. Second question

You wrote that you lost Ukraine. I answered, is she necessary ?! What's so complicated?

[shark]

Need is not needed. Well, after all, they have lost ... I also share the opinion that we do not need it. For a betrayer will betray once more than once.

[Andrey Chistyakov]

Quote: shark

Need is not needed. Well, after all, they have lost ... I also share the opinion that we do not need it. For a betrayer will betray once more than once.

Good for. Though agreed with this.

[Antares]

Quote: shark

I also share the opinion that we do not need it. For a betrayer will betray once more than once.

funny.
It was not needed. Get rid. At the same time, they were accused of betrayal.
Very interesting. At least somehow explains all the HPP. Well, she is unnecessary. Yes, there is the largest land border, the largest Russian-speaking country after the Russian Federation, the largest buffer in front of NATO .. ​​the market of Russian culture and goods ..
Well, I don’t need it .. here they sold / gave away.
probably RB on the same principle, is not needed, and even betrays ..
just after that, there’s no one to sell / give .. unless Voronezh will bomb ..

[Serg65]

Quote: shark

Image attractiveness of our country

And where did this attraction come from, I apologize?

[shark]

Good, I agree. Let's just say - a possible image appeal.

[Serg65]

Well, yes, in 1990 the image attractiveness was POSSIBLE!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: shark

The image attractiveness of our country was brought to nothing by bureaucrats officials.

Well, even if you imagine that Russia and Ukraine will unite, the older brothers oligarchs (ours) will quickly take away everything from their younger brothers (Ukrainian).

[Antares]

Quote: tihonmarine

Well, even if you imagine that Russia and Ukraine will unite, the older brothers oligarchs (ours) will quickly take away everything from their younger brothers (Ukrainian).

clear business.
the one who has more rights is right. (corny richer and closer to the top)

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vladimir16

What is approaching the end of this fascist state?

I understand you about Sumeria?
for starters, you would ask how the Sumerians themselves interpret signed papers

[Antares]

Quote: Barmaleyka

for starters, you would ask how the Sumerians themselves interpret signed papers

the Sumerians became extinct a long time ago.
But Ukrainians interpret this in different ways.
Firstly, agreement on the formula that was signed by Poroshenko back in 2016 means only consent to a meeting in the Norman format of Zelensky and Putin (with the OSCE, etc.) and there will be bargaining.
So this is a prelude. Let's wait for the climax (the outcome of the meeting in the Norman format)

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Antares

the Sumerians became extinct a long time ago.

you flood?

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Antares

So this is a prelude. Let's wait for the climax (the outcome of the meeting in the Norman format)

When there are no brains, then there’s nothing to invent, much less to interpret.

[Civil]

The Steinmeier Formula envisages the entry into force of the law on the special status of Donbass after the elections there, which the OSCE must recognize as fair and free.

According to the proposals of Steimayer, first Ukraine was supposed to enact the law on elections in the Donbass, and only then the parties withdraw troops. The next step is the holding of elections. Further, an item is implemented on the complete withdrawal of illegal armed groups and the return of control of the state border of Ukraine.

Signed by the Minsk Group. That is, Russia, too.

So elections will be held according to Ukrainian laws.

None of this will come of it.

[Andrey Chistyakov]

"So the elections will be held according to Ukrainian laws."
Yeah. Dreaming.

[Boris55]

Quote: Chaldon48

what is its essence?

[Stas157]

Quote: Boris55

Quote: Chaldon48

what is its essence?

After completing the sixth step (returning control over the state border of Ukraine), the remaining five can be sabotaged. They simply lose their meaning and no one will agree with Donbass.

[Boris55]

Quote: Stas157

After completing the sixth step (returning control over the state border of Ukraine), the remaining five can be sabotaged.

Do you think in Ukrainian - from the end?

[Stas157]

Quote: Boris55

Do you think in Ukrainian - from the end?

And you just do not understand the meaning of what is written. Attempt number two:

Quote: Stas157

After completing the sixth step, the other five ... just lose their meaning

And it doesn’t matter at all before the first five were completed or not.

[asv363]

Statement by the heads of the LPR and DPR Leonid Pasechnik and Denis Pushilin

Yesterday, thanks to Russia, Germany and France, Ukraine finally signed the "Steinmeier formula," which guarantees Donbass a special status. Thus, she recognizes the special right of the people of Donbass to independently determine their fate. We ourselves will decide what language to speak, what our economy will be like, how our judicial system will be formed, how our people's militia will protect our citizens and how we will integrate with Russia. This is our business, our goal. And we will continue negotiations in Minsk in order to ultimately come to full self-government and self-determination.

And we urge Mr. Zelensky not to dictate conditions to us. When he says that the elections in the Donbass will be held only after Ukraine gains control of the border, he does not understand that it is not up to him to decide when the elections will be held, but for us. The Kiev authorities will not receive any control over the border.

Mr. Zelensky also said that a new law on special status would be adopted. It is interesting to know which one? We do not like much in the current version of this law, into which Poroshenko issued unacceptable reservations. And these reservations and insertions must be removed from the law. But it also contains the most important provisions that cannot be changed in any case. Therefore, any changes to the law on special status should be agreed with us. Otherwise, we will consider them a direct and flagrant violation of the Minsk agreements, and they will be legally insignificant for us.

We want to warn Mr. Zelensky against rash actions. If he wants to achieve peaceful coexistence with the DPR and LPR, let him enter into a direct dialogue with us, and not make ill-conceived and meaningless unilateral statements.

http://lug-info.com/news/one/zayavlenie-glav-lnr-i-dnr-leonida-pasechnika-i-denisa-pushilina-49211

Read it before breeding panic and pan-prowess among the shirnarmasses.

[Stas157]

Quote: asv363

Read Before

I read and what? There was nothing about the abolition of step 6 (taking control of the state border). Why did you slip this on? In your own words, why are you satisfied with this 6 step? Are you in the service of Bandera?

[asv363]

Ukraine will not receive any control over the border between the DPR, LPR and Russia. Past President Poroshenko has already signed the so-called. "Minsk-2", there is a UN Security Council resolution No. 2202 of 15.02.2015, in Appendix No. 1 the first item is a ceasefire.

Question: Ukrovermaht ceased fire on the People's Republics? Only the DNI over the past three days, fired, from memory, 52 times.

[Antares]

Quote: asv363

Only the DNI over the past three days, fired, from memory, 52 times.

there were good too
OOS headquarters also speaks of enemy firing
for example, September 30

On September 30, the occupiers, despite an agreement on a complete ceasefire, fired on the positions of the Joint Forces 19 times, as a result of which one soldier was injured.
The militants fired from weapons prohibited by the Minsk agreements - mortars of 120 mm and 82 mm caliber, as well as from BMP armament, anti-aircraft guns, grenade launchers of various systems, sniper and small arms.

and every day 20-26 times ...
everyone is good there ... it's the same war.

[Vend]

This is the death of the Natsik and Svidomo, and for Ukraine this is a chance to survive as a federal state. Let's see what will happen next. I do not think that Svidomity just give up.

[elfik]

After fulfilling the formula W .... the genocide of the Russian Donetsk residents of LDNR will begin. The fulfillment of the Formula is the forcible pushing of LDNR back to Ukraine! THIS IS A BETTERNESS! Not for this, thousands of Russian Donetsk residents and volunteers from Russia perished

[Looking for]

I completely agree with you. This is a formula-shaped betrayal.

[Lelek]

Quote: Chaldon48

So it’s not clear who signed this agreement and what is its essence?

T.N. "Steinmeier formula" is a register of INTENTIONS to implement the register of "Minsk agreements". In fact, this is not even a step towards resolving the situation in Donbass, but just a declaration of these intentions. Further "tyagomotina" will repeat the actions of the Ruins leadership under ex-hetman Waltzman - complete disregard. At a briefing the day before yesterday, the new hetman confirmed this, calling this plan the "Zelensky formula" (no autonomy, no republics 'armed forces, Kiev's control of the republics' borders with the Russian Federation, elections to LOCAL AUTHORITIES, i.e. regional, not republican, according to the laws of Ukraine, the introduction of armed formations of Kiev on the territory of the LDNR). This means a complete cleansing of the republics, the uselessness of the death of 13000 residents and the formation of a hostile region on this section of the Russian-Ukrainian border (not to mention the massacre that the Nazis will arrange). IMHO, the Russian Federation should not participate in any "steinmeier" gatherings until Kiev fully fulfills the signed treatises. But, unfortunately, the decision is not ours.

[den3080]

Quote: Chaldon48

So it’s not clear who signed this agreement and what is its essence?

signed Amuch, but he does not admit it if asked:
neither I ... well, maybe I ... tilki with my left hand ... and even make-believe is not considered ...
that's how their whole Ukrainian life goes.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Chaldon48

and what is its essence?

they are in the sand
but the fact that everyone understands the signed document in his own way suggests that all this is garbage

[Chaldon48]

So it’s not clear who signed this agreement and what is its essence?

[CAT BAIYUN]

When Steinmeier’s formula is fulfilled, the country will fall apart like a house of cards

Such a country with such an ideology, (I'm not talking about the ruling elite) will fall apart without options. It is the matter of time.
Actually, the decay process has already begun a long time ago: Crimea, Donbass ...
They’ll still be nice for a couple of years, and generally the stub will remain.
As from my point of view ... what is happening with Ukraine now is an inevitable consequence of everything that happened before.

[Mikhalych]

Such a country with such an ideology, (I'm not talking about the ruling elite) will fall apart without options.

And without any formulas.

[210ox]

I understand you, and I thought for some time like that ... But there is a fact - over the past four years, people there have managed to sufficiently unite to formulate the defense of the state from external aggression. Whatever the wording is wild. The propaganda, and the action of the authorities in Moscow, allowed them to unite, if not all, then a large part.

[hydrox]

What will fall apart is not even discussed.
More interesting for us is the direction of the collapse and prospects of New Russia, starting with Odessa.

[Dangerous]

No one is going to fall apart in Ukraine. Ourselves said by the way that for the territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Donbass and Lugansk. And where does Odessa come from? She feels quite well as part of Ukraine and no one is going to be part of the Russian Federation there.

[hydrox]

Russians say "the prospects of Novorossia" in white, and we really don't care about Skakuasia, especially since Skakuasia is a gangster-Bandera and selfish-thief concept, which has goals and meanings of Psheko-Ukrainians, and the concept of Little Russia is historical and political. - ideological, the goals and meanings of which are connected with Russia - feel the difference.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Good! No Ukraine, no problem.
Moreover, the Ukrainian pipe is no longer needed ... Well, after a year, it will definitely be, not needed.
Give some small ,, Ukraine ,,!

[210ox]

As for the pipe, it’s better to keep quiet .. So that the New Year isn’t spoiled ...

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

210okv, I’m unlikely to spoil something, the celebration of NG. But with chronic blackmail about blocking gas transit, you need to finish.

[210ox]

By the way. V. Putin suggested concluding an agreement on transit through VNA. So far for a year, it seems.

[hydrox]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

Give some small

So I’m only interested in Novorossia, I saw all the other little ones in the coffin - someone, let’s pick it up ...

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

,, someone, yes pick up ,,
Here I am about the same.

[hydrox]

So after all, these little ones are zapadentsi: our eternal enemies are Bandera’s, OUN’s and UPA’s who haven’t re-educated for 70 years and who haven’t re-educated for the same amount of time and will not love Russia, and the only thing you can expect from them is just a shot in the back .

[Looking for]

so can a preventive retaliatory step-bullet in the forehead?

[hydrox]

The idea, of course, is sound, but only the Ukrainian authorities can do this, and whether it will do it is still a big question ...

[Lelek]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

... the Ukrainian pipe is already not needed ... Well, after a year, it will be definitely not needed.

Yes it is. In addition, SP-2 and Power of Siberia (objects of competition between Europe and Asia) will be launched, and in the near future - Turkish Stream. So, the need for the worn-out system of the former Ukraine will disappear (well, it will receive gas for internal use at the European tariff and after prepayment, but without free money for transit).

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

,, but without free money for transit ,,
In my opinion (I am not a specialist in the gas industry) it is necessary to complete gas projects. What will happen in Ukraine is not interesting. But in any case, it is necessary to create conditions for the collapse of Ukraine itself as a state. Humanly, of course, the people of Ukraine are sorry. But no one will regret us. In this situation, pity is a sign of political weakness. Consequently, there is no pipe, no transit. No transit, no revenues to the federal budget. There is no budget revenue, Ukraine is not needed either. What will happen to Ukraine is the problem of the people of Ukraine. No wonder they rode. :-)

[Antares]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

gas projects must be completed.

LNG terminals. And you do not depend on the countries of transit and their policies.
And most importantly, it is cheaper and there is no need to compensate for losses with the budget as with the Power of Siberia.
And geography is wider.

[garrett]

So that the need for a worn-out system of the former Ukraine will disappear

not so, more precisely, not quite so ... I’ll briefly explain: the gas transportation system will not be needed in the form in which it now exists (four threads), but at least one will work in five and ten years. I can explain in more detail, if interested)

[Lelek]

Quote: Garrett

... but at least one will work in five and ten years.

Perhaps, but one cannot ignore the deterioration of the system. One line can and will work for domestic gas consumption, provided there is no show off from the former Ukraine, but nothing more. Already now, the "Europeans" are switching to supply from SP-1 (and soon from SP-2) and TP (just a few days ago Hungary announced its transition to TP). So, in any case, Ukraine needs to tighten the belt and pick up drooling for free money from transit.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

Lelek: Do you not link Hungary’s refusal of Ukrainian transit with the possible return of its territory to Transcarpathia by force? ..
Orban is a smart man and does nothing in vain.

[Lelek]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

Lelek, do not you link Hungary’s refusal of Ukrainian transit with the possible forcible return of its territories to Transcarpathia?

Perhaps in the depths of Hungarian politics this argument is present (I do not know), but basically it is pragmatism and a desire for the security of your energy system. The unpredictability and recklessness of the former Ukraine gave it a bad reputation in "Europe" and not only. Her "companions" lost confidence in the future, but today in Kiev "clouds are going gloomily" and how it will end is unknown.

[garrett]

For domestic gas consumption, one thread can and will work

just not for domestic consumption) Poland, Slovakia, and even the little things

but one cannot ignore the deterioration of the system

it will be bought by an international consortium, most likely without the participation of Gazprom

[Lelek]

Quote: Garrett

it will be bought by an international consortium, most likely without the participation of Gazprom

But this is unlikely. The restoration of the system will cost more than installing a new one (and in "Europe" they know how to count money), the renegotiation of the contract for the supply of gas while maintaining payment for transit through the Ruin is not profitable for the Russian Federation, in addition, the presence of the SP-2 and TP fully ensure the safety of the EU's needs (IMHO) ...

[garrett]

in addition, the presence of SP-2 and TP fully ensure the safety of the needs of the EU

you are mistaken ... the design capacity of sp2 is 55 billion cubic meters, the Turkish flow is 31 billion cubic meters .... even if we assume that both flows will work at maximum (which is impossible in the near future due to technical / market / political reasons), where to put the remaining gas ??? On average, about 90 billion cubic meters are pumped through the gas transportation system of Ukraine. +/- 10 billion

[Lelek]

Quote: Garrett

where to put the remaining gas?

Well, firstly, SP-1 is operating at half capacity, and secondly, the UP project in parallel with the TP is already "being issued". The EU will lift restrictions on SP-1 when the cock crows.

[garrett]

Well, firstly, the SP-1 runs at half power

colleague, well, at least take a look at the pedivics))) at the joint venture in 2018, the average annual load was 106,9%

secondly, the project of the UP in parallel with the TP is already "on issue"

On January 11, 2016, Bulgarian media reported on the readiness of the Russian side to resume work on the construction of the South Stream. On the same day, the representative of the Russian Ministry of Energy commented on the situation on the gas pipeline: “The status is the same, the project has been stopped”
On May 30, 2018, the Prime Minister of Bulgaria Boyko Borisov, during his visit to Russia, apologized for the disruption of South Stream: “I am grateful that Russia does not hold evil. The elder always forgives "Nuff said))))

[Mavrikiy]

In Ukraine: When Steinmeier’s formula is fulfilled, the country will fall apart like a house of cards

Nonsense. You need to jump higher and everyone will be happy.

[bessmertniy]

You jump higher - you will fall into the sky. And what heavenly happiness it is. Will everyone like it?

[Vasyan1971]

Quote: bessmertniy

You jump higher - you will fall into the sky.

Sick blush.

[prior]

The Show Must Go On!
Ukraine, give a new maidan!

[hydrox]

It will not be enough for a new one, the skakuass have already chosen the Maidan limit to believe "in one more".

[Mountain shooter]

Storm in a glass of water. Will Ukraine fall apart? So no one will cry. I certainly. Stop shooting, lift the economic blockade. A special status will give local power unlimited.
And there - how it goes. Suspended the situation for five years. Enough already ... I'm sorry for the people. On which mines fly!

[bessmertniy]

According to the formula or not according to the formula, Ukraine will fall apart - what's the difference. But one day this will happen. Different creatures cannot get along on this noah's ark.

[Lelek]

Quote: bessmertniy

According to the formula or not according to the formula, Ukraine will fall apart - what's the difference. But one day this will happen.

About this was written in his article by the Kiev journalist Gleb Prostakov, though from a slightly different angle. I bring a piece from what he wrote:

[Mamuka Petrovich]

A complete amnesty, a special status on an ongoing basis, and the preservation of its LDNR security forces for Ukraine threatens a social explosion within the country.

[Avior]

Strongly doubt.
As soon as recognized power and autonomy appears in the Donbass, the courts will be inundated with property claims in the Donbass.
And even if it will be the Donetsk courts first, it will still come to Kiev, and multimillion-dollar claims for compensation will go there, and autonomy will have to be paid for them. Economic life in autonomy will be paralyzed.
They will press economically, and no tanks will help. Apply weapons- automatically cancel all agreements, Kiev only needs it.

[hydrox]

I don’t know, I don’t know: Ukraine has several tens of billions of dollars in arrears to pensions and other social services for residents of LDNR, as much as they will require compensation for military damage and blocking of railway and external relations, but this will already be the concerns of the future five-year period, but lawsuits they will certainly be, and Russia will surely help draw them up ..

[Avior]

Debt of tens of billions is from what source such amounts? There are doubts.
And for the future, all this will be a problem for the new authorities of Donbass - autonomy, from its own sources.
As for the damage from hostilities and other things, who prevents them from presenting now? N-something will not change, the claims will still be finally considered in Kiev, in some kind of supreme court or whatever it is called.
But I do not see such claims in large numbers.

[hydrox]

Quote: Avior

But I do not see such claims in large numbers.

You still don't see a lot, but this "a lot of things" becomes the basis only after the establishment of state structures of both the U-ny and the LDNR, and all this only after the recognition of the ECHR Charter and its ratification (as well as other judicial structures).

[Avior]

The ECHR is recognized by Ukraine for a long time, no one interferes with handling.
The state structures of Ukraine did not disappear, but they are being sued.
And after the implementation of these agreements, nothing will change in this regard.

[hydrox]

Nobody is interested in Ukraine now: everyone is interested in the position of LDNR on this issue.

[Antares]

Quote: hydrox

everyone is interested in the position of LDNR on this issue.

the Russian Federation speaks for them through its representative (Gryzlov, Surkov)
if Ukraine still has the opportunity to manipulate Germany and France (but yield to the general pressure + the USA) but there are no options.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

,, but I do not see such claims in large numbers,
This is because you don’t see beyond your own nose .. Sorry ..
Ukraine should be responsible for the destroyed infrastructure, deaths and deprivations of people.
In the place of the IMF, I would deduct these amounts from the loans that the shareholder gains. Henceforth, they will be smarter.

[Avior]

Do you see these claims? Give a link and I will see.
And your stories about what you would do on the spot of the IMF is in favor of the poor.

[asv363]

Namesake, here's the recent news:

Social activists of the DPR handed over to the ICC and the ECHR almost 5,5 thousand materials on victims of the conflict
https://dan-news.info/obschestvo/obshhestvenniki-dnr-peredali-mus-i-espch-pochti-55-tysyachi-materialov-po-postradavshim-v-xode-konflikta.html

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

asv363, thank you, namesake. In a timely manner...:-)

[Avior]

I looked, for sure, there are claims, you are right.
But what are the lawsuits about and what is their prospect?
There are lawsuits, but I won’t hear much about the cases won.
I searched and found the following

Residents of Donetsk and Lugansk regions wanted compensation from Ukraine and Russia.
The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) rejected three complaints by residents of Donetsk and Lugansk regions demanding that Ukraine and Russia compensate for the cost of housing lost by them in the bombing. This is stated in the court decision, issued in Strasbourg on Thursday, July 28.

In particular, we are talking about the complaint of Svetlana Piven from Yasinovataya (Donetsk region), as well as two complaints: from Anton Lisny from Yasinovataya and Vladimir Anokhin from Trekhizbenka (Lugansk region).

.... it became known that the ECHR sided with Kiev. The court combined seven similar complaints from citizens of Ukraine living in Donetsk who stopped receiving pensions from the Ukrainian budget in 2014. The lawsuit was not even considered on the merits, but was simply rejected due to the fact that Donetsk is not under the control of Kiev and therefore the functioning of the Ukrainian justice system, where you can complain about the non-payment of pensions, is impossible there.

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) recognized the right of Ukraine not to pay pensions in parts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions not controlled by Kiev

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.lenta.ru/news/2018/02/13/pensii/amp/
But I did not find anything about the cases won in the ECHR, especially the thousands.
Is wishful thinking given out with these claims?

[asv363]

Quote: Avior

But what are the lawsuits about and what is their prospect? There are lawsuits, but it is not very audible about the won cases.

Sergey, I do not know the logic used by the ECHR. The use of the APU against their own civilians violates the Constitution of Ukraine. 02.07.2014/12/8, the plane was bombed in a peaceful village, XNUMX people were killed, XNUMX were injured. However, you quoted that the ECtHR refused a similar lawsuit. Without the original in English, which should contain the motivational part of the decision, I can not say anything.

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

,,give me a link,,
If you think only by links, then I feel sorry for you. Learn history, political science, Roman law ..

[Antares]

Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich

Ukraine must be responsible for destroyed infrastructure, deaths and deprivation of people

hmm. Usually the culprit is the "occupying country". According to international opinion and the UN, it is clear who it is.
Although it is possible to sue Ukraine as well. This is not prohibited.

[Proxima]

Quote: Antares

hmm. Usually the culprit is the "occupying country".

And you are probably ready to give an order to "respectable Protestant" Turchinov for unleashing a war in Donbass?

[Antares]

Quote: Proxima

And you are probably ready to give an order to "respectable Protestant" Turchinov for unleashing a war in Donbass?

for taking responsibility and decisions, yes,
for methods and collective responsibility that led to this situation (that is, reasons), on the contrary.
There are many to be blamed there, including the authorities' henchmen, organizers of the split, "trigger triggers of the war", foreign interventionists who aggravated the situation, and all the "runners-up" who destroyed the Armed Forces and the country's ability to solve problems.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Igor Lapin on the air of Ukrainian TV said that Kiev’s implementation of the Steinmeier formula will lead to the collapse of Ukraine “like a house of cards”.

If he doesn’t know, then the country has long collapsed “like a house of cards” and each region lives like a republic, but so far it’s not at the official level, but it’s a matter of time, if you continue to go the same way.

[Vasyan1971]

... the representative of Kiev put his signature on a document called the Steinmeier formula.

When did some signatures of the ukronatsi stop it? Yanukovych will confirm. In addition, they are still going to hang everyone up.

[Sergei 777]

According to Lapin, the next may appear, for example, the Volyn People’s Republic, "some Galician-Volyn principality."

Without the help of foreign states, nothing will appear there.

[To be or not to be]

1. The Steinmeier formula is just a FRAME from a mine detector. Which has no power ..
2. Kiev and especially the West need a lull. In order to realize the agricultural land declared by the new authorities of Kiev. (Chernozemy) - the centuries-old dream of the West.

[Egoza]

Quote: To be or not to be

to realize the agricultural land declared by the new government of Kiev. (Chernozemy) - the centuries-old dream of the west.

There is nothing left of the black soil - rapeseed, chemistry, etc. have already ruined the whole earth. But if Ukraine disintegrates, it will go there. Yes, Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Czechs will return "their" lands. but the rest of Little Russia will breathe freely. to be honest, of all the listed Western "partners", only the Hungarians cared about the Ukrainian Hungarians all the time - they printed textbooks, built kindergarten schools, and even opened a university. They will take it away, so people will at least live normally. But when the Poles rake in - oh and they "please" Bandera. Europe and "Happiness" will be them. You can stock up on seeds.

[Sergej1972]

Not Czechs, but Slovaks.

[Lelek]

Quote: Egoza

But if Ukraine disintegrates, there it is dear to it.

Good day, Elena.
My grandfather told me from pink nails about three main sins: lies, greed and betrayal, which ruin not only an individual person, but also entire communities and nations. This is what happened with the former Ukraine, on which these three misfortunes fell. The phenomenon is very sad, given the centuries-old history of the people of Ruins, but "what has grown has grown", and this segment of the path of a failed state will once go down in world history and all (+) and (-) will be put on the shelves, and "all will be rewarded according to their works. "

[Andrei Nikolaevich]

,, about the three main sins ,,
Lelek, your grandfather is the smartest person!

[Livonetc]

Special status did not collapse Ukraine.
This is a movement towards federalization.
Many have long been offering this to Ukraine.
Their US idol is a federal state.
There even state-to-state legislation is different and in serious aspects.
Although gentlemen can fall apart.
No one will mourn.
On the contrary, many will rub their hands.

[To be or not to be]

"This is a move towards federalization."

Yeah, all POWER LOCAL. OLIGARHAM !! With a hard center. ????

[Livonetc]

Please explain in more detail.
Is your position an ongoing conflict and war to a victorious end?
I do not claim, just ask.
In the 14th year, my position was just that.

Many people died and it became difficult to live in the territories of the former Ukraine.
My relatives live in Donetsk and Kherson.
Some met in this situation the rest of their lives.
People worked all their lives, honestly served the Motherland.
So what is the correct way, in your opinion?

[Den717]

So, the former People’s Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, the ex-leader of the assault company of the national battalion “Aydar” (an extremist organization is banned in the Russian Federation) Igor Lapin on Ukrainian TV said that the fulfillment of Steinmeier’s formula in Kiev will lead to the collapse of Ukraine “like a house of cards”.

Obviously, the level of mental activity of the nationalist world view does not allow this ex-leader of the assault company of the Aidar national battalion to look at the causes and consequences of the current state of the country more or less objectively. The main reason for the cracks in this country was the illegal usurpation of power by nationalists and harsh pressure on all dissenters of the country's population. Natsik are not capable of negotiations and, as a result, compromises. Therefore, the outcome of the process can occur in three directions: the capitulation of LDNR; the refusal of power in Kiev from nationalism in principle of the organization of power in the country and the curbing of gangster Bandera groups; freezing the conflict with a possible separation of the parties and political unsettled relations between Kiev and LDN. So far, the prerequisites for the third option are being viewed. In this version, both parties will adhere to their ideological principles without concessions and rapprochement. This is all the more likely since Kiev does not recognize the leaders of the LDNR and denies the possibility of direct negotiations.

[hydrox]

It’s already impossible to curb these bandits (they’ve already tried the blood!), So there’s only one option: they will catch them in the dark nooks and strangle the most odious, until the rest shut up and settle in Canada and Australia ...
And those who want to "deal" with the banderlog will certainly be found, especially in revenge for their post-Maidan "abstinence" (in other words, indecision, which they will hesitate to call cowardice)

[7,62x54]

The collapse of the outskirts can only be spared by two godfathers on both sides of the front. An artificial state, with a fictitious language and a fictitious story, cannot and should not exist.

[Zliy_mod]

An artificial state, with a fictitious language and a fictitious story, cannot and should not exist.

Any artificial state, if measured along the borders, nothing lasts forever.
The invented Nitsche language has been developing so-so for centuries and is not swept up by its fiction, you understand assimilation ...
It is up to you to decide whether or not to exist, neither the Poles, nor the Hungarians, nor the Russians will get anything when the people of Ukraine come to the defense of their homeland, when they feel the real danger.
At least we passed the power of the Maidan Natsik and now we understand what it threatens with - the collapse of the country, believe me nothing will break off.

[7,62x54]

How do you stoke a hut? Gas or dung?

[Vladimir61]

Meanwhile, some experts in Russia express the idea that Steinmeier’s formula does not actually mean the collapse of Ukraine, but the cessation of even discussing the ideas of New Russia, which was discussed so much in 2014.

That's why they are "separate".
The recognition of the Steinmeier form actually means not only a change in the Constitution, in terms of federalization of Ukrainian legislation, but also to the abolition of state acts adopted after 2014, including the return of neutral status, the abolition of de-communization laws, and so on. By signing the formula, Ukraine has taken the first step, but will not be able to take the second in the coming years, and that will be the end of it. No return of the DLNR, to its "native" fold, will happen.

[Antares]

Quote: Vladimir61

The recognition of the Steinmeier form actually means not only a change in the Constitution, in terms of federalization of Ukrainian legislation, but also to the abolition of state acts adopted after 2014, including the return of neutral status, the abolition of decommunization laws and so on.

don't mean.
The law is yes. Amendment to the Constitution, no.
Especially since the cancellation of everything after 2014 .. this will already be some kind of sur. (the West itself would be against)

Quote: Vladimir61

By signing the formula, Ukraine has taken the first step, but will not be able to take the second in the coming years, and everything will end there. No return of the DLNR, to its "native" fold, will happen.

while signing, they indicated intentions to compromise (which the predecessors did not do, also signing the formula)
Further bargaining within the framework of the Norman format.
And there, each side will trade its arguments.

[Vladimir61]

Quote: Antares

And there, each side will trade its arguments.

I visit my parents, in the Donbass, once or twice a month and I know the mood there, For all your arguments, they put it there a long time ago ...
Donbass, under no circumstances or someone else's requirements, will not return to Ukraine in the sample 2014-2019.

[Antares]

Quote: Vladimir61

under no circumstances or someone else’s requirements, will not return to Ukraine in the sample 2014-2019.

It’s very unfortunate, but how they began to trade in our fates and yours, so they continue. And the decision will not be made by us.
We may or may not make a decision. But we cannot influence or change. Alone, at least.

[Vladimir61]

Quote: Antares

We may or may not make a decision. But we cannot influence or change. Alone, at least.

Judging by the news, a decision is already being made on the new Maidan. They are waiting in Donbass! The difference is that your decisions are made under pressure from a smaller, but politically supported by the authorities, part of the population. Also, you don't know what civil war is. In Donbass, your Armed Forces and administrations act as occupation authorities. The people see them like that - murderers, rapists, criminals, looters. From 2014 to 2019, in the territories occupied by Ukraine, more civilians died and suffered at the hands of "heroes" than during active hostilities, in the same territories, in 2014-2015.
In the Donbass, on the contrary, the authorities there need to "look back" on the opinion of the majority and make decisions accordingly. You are shouting - "as Russia says, so be it." Will not be! People there with the wrong mentality, there generation after generation have worked in conditions of increased risk and there is no pressure on them. In conversations, they say: "Nobody will decide for us, neither the authorities, nor Kiev, nor Moscow."
And I am faithful that it will be so. The mining regions have always been especially dangerous for any government.

[Sayan]

Well, they signed and signed, they won’t do anything anyway, dill their signatures do not commit to anything, they only understand the language of power

[aszzz888]

In Ukraine: When Steinmeier’s formula is fulfilled, the country will fall apart like a house of cards

So she, unnecessary, already lies on her side with the penultimate sigh.

[tihonmarine]

If in the people's republics of Donbass the agreements reached in Minsk were called the first step towards a possible peace, in Kiev more and more often threats to the peace process by the radicals are heard

... Well, what can radicals do? Build, build or plow the land? The only answer is "To fight", for them the war is "that the mother is dear. And now this feeding trough is leaving from under the nose." The common people in Ukraine are deaf and dumb as always.

[beeper]

In war, after all, they can kill, so the Nazis stay in the rear and climb to the "helm of power" - the murder and robbery of the unarmed civilian population of Ukraine and Donbass, racketeering extortion and armed robbery, uncontrolled "patriotic" "cuts" of the military budget and pocketing tax "imposed on the entire working Ukrainian population is a" native mother "of such insidious parasites serving the secret police and" on the parcels "of the kleptoligarchs -" w / Bandera "and the Gauleiter" Ukraine "- Ameroposla!
"The common people in Ukraine, as always, are deaf and dumb" ??? - friend Tihonmarine (you have many facts at hand, you are clearly not deaf and blind, and you still don’t understand what’s what, is it really up to every layman comes only when he personally touches ???), who did not remain silent, those Natsiks, back in 2014, were demonstratively brutally killed and even staged a public burning, not only in Odessa, also in May Mariupol, in broad daylight, the regional police department with militiamen inside Natsiks from automatic cannons of infantry fighting vehicles and grenade launchers shot and burned - "ordinary people", in your opinion, completely stupid, deaf and blind, did not understand anything from these "public killings, burnings", how to "behave correctly" under occupation Maidan "regime, so as not to lose life and health overnight, not to rot alive in the" secret prisons of the CIA "and" zindans "of Bandera's" bezpeki "??!
Unpunished killings, with the approval of "common people" and "the world community", by Bandera punishers of civilians in Donbass, also do not help to get rid of our "artificial silence" - all Ukrainian residents see and know what happened to this rich land of the mining "city of a million roses. "and its inhabitants during the Anti-People's Terrorist Operation (ATO) carried out by the Bandera ameroholui!
Therefore, we are silent now, if you "rock out" -Natsik, "ATO heroes" or some other Bandera-militant "Svidomye" marginals ("covered" by the "Maidan authorities" and local kleptoligarchs - "f / Bandera"!), With the complete connivance of the police and the non-intervention of the frightened and disunited crowd of inhabitants, they will “patriotically” mutilate, beaten and killed as “unseen” and nothing will happen to your killers for this! Yes, and "Svidomo" informer-denunciation do not discount, even the VAZ maydanoprez with this petty denunciation "was noted" on the very, that neither is, "world level"!
In addition, Ukraine has "Maidan laws" on de-communization, on Russia as an aggressor, on the Russian occupation of Crimea and Donbass, which make it possible to prosecute any Ukrainian resident who denies the "Russian attack" or is committed to Soviet symbols ("and if you look, then any of us will find "Soviet symbols" even on education documents or elsewhere, so now every Ukrainian citizen is "under prison" or an exorbitant "fine", "if anything!"
Even if the murderers (who shot in the capital Kiev the famous Ukrainian journalist, a true patriot and popularizer of the history of Ukraine, right in broad daylight, at the doorstep of their house, with a crowd of people) Oles Buzin, well-known (not only in Ukraine!), Were released with impunity "Maidan authorities", then what and for whose protection can "peresisny hulks (" common people ")" hope for, think about it, Tihonmarine, before writing your unfounded "reproaches" ?!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: pishchak

Therefore, we are silent now - if you "rock" - the Nazis, "heroes of the ATO" or some other Bandera-militant "Svidomye" marginals ("covered" by the "Maidan authorities" and local kleptoligarchs - "f / Bandera"!), With the complete connivance of the police and non-intervention of the frightened and disunited crowd of ordinary people, "patriotically" mutilate, kill and kill,

Thank you for briefly and specifically enlightened, but it looks like Bandera chaos after the Second World War.

[beeper]

Then, in the post-war years, these Shronov ghouls were afraid to get out atrocities during the day, because the people of the Soviet government, the Soviet police and the MGB fighters did not allow them to do this, so the banderlogs murdered in the Zapadenshchina only sneak, stealthily and, basically, burst into the houses of sleeping peaceful workers!
And now, in the amerokolony "Ukraine", the Banderonazi murderers fearlessly climbed out of their caches and undergrounds, spread throughout Ukraine and around the clock give free rein to their cave instincts - in broad daylight they bloodthirsty cling to their fellow citizens and can easily break into the house, because the the police and the "base", as well as the hypocritical, transatlantic and European, "common people" with their antihuman "values", are completely on the side of these destructive evil parasites - "heroes"!

[stels_07]

It's not a shame, but this is a drain of New Russia

[gabonskijfront]

You do not like politics, you are a supporter of simple decisions, but in politics this is usually the most difficult and bloody way, any multi-way approach is always advantageous.

[hydrox]

I would say that this is a kick to the unification of New Russia.

[rocket757]

"Aidarovets" stated that "everything is to blame"

In this way, a whole generation of "spiritualized" ones will grow up who live in war, live since that war !!!
They don’t need peace ....

[Avior]

Even the very possibility of an election by this formula is doubtful
Well this is all sorts of nationalists will participate and some Semyon Semenchenko and others.
Disruption of elections in such conditions is very likely.

[beeper]

Even the first Constitution of Ukraine, in its nationalistic "ambushes" ("fundamentals", if translated into Russian, but precisely that an ambush by the Galician Shronopithecus and other notorious natsimarginal Petliura-Bandera bottling, during the Gorbachev "catastrophe" helm of the authorities in the Ukrainian SSR!) "in, in fact, a MULTINATIONAL post-Soviet republic, laid the foundations and direction of the future collapse, which has already grown into a complete loss of the subject status of the current, rapidly deindustrialized and deserted, amerocolony" Ukraine "and a bloody civil war, alas!
The process of decomposition and defragmentation of "unitary" Ukraine has accelerated significantly with the beginning of the Yanukov-Azarov venal "policy" of Judeo-Mazepa's "uncontested European integration" and indulgence of Galician Banderonazism, which led to the pro-American "Euromaid" coup d'etat, open occupation of the "independent" and its European "Washington by Washington ameromarionette, in essence and actions, anti-people and anti-state, "Maidan administration"!

And yet, if suddenly "zaprody" ("favorite word" of the confederate of the w / Bandera member Frotman-Tyagnibok, "phrases" Farion, so no offense!) "- the Westerners decide to separate themselves from the destroyed and" ponevolenoi participation !!!, Ukraine with its miserable "principality" - gangrenous "welding" from Comrade Stalin, then from Donbass (unlike the bloodthirsty and marauding Galicia Smerekopithecus!) No one will go to kill and rob the Zapadensk "separators" Zapadenskie banderonatsiki-non-brothers, hand over your local war criminals, "ATO heroes" to the people's tribunal and live with whoever you want!

[Alexander Ra]

We must pay attention to two points that are common for Russia and Ukraine.
1. Both there and there Russians live.
2. In both territories, the revenge of Trotskyism is not condemned today (from Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Chubais ...).
In Ukraine, this is complicated only by the increase in the number of traitors of their people with weapons, for us - give your own definition of what to call our business, acting as a continuation of the policy of globalist financiers.
At the first moment: the Russians should unite. No stranger Uncle Steinmeier will offer the good. The unity of our people should excite us, the unity of the territory of Ukraine today can and should be neglected.
New Russia is the first serious rebellion against Trotskyism in Russia. New Russia is needed only by us, this is the restoration of our national image. Everyone will be against - no one wants a strong other.
Nothing prevents the president from calling Trump and saying: "We will clean up our outskirts, you do not accidentally bother us." Old Man in Belarus: "Decide whether you are with us or ...". Where Russians live, no one has the right to interfere in our lives. It is better to divide the territory of Ukraine to us than other people's uncles will.

[gorenina91]

In the “60 minutes” program on TC “Russia 1”, a statement was made that the fulfillment of Steinmeier’s formula would mean the following: no republics of Donbass, no heads of republics.

-Yes, that's right ... -And all this will not lead to the collapse of Ukraine .., but to the collapse of New Russia ...
-I don’t understand ...- that many are so happy ... -that it’s just that Ukraine will quietly abolish all self-government bodies in Novorossia (it’s very easy to physically eliminate all the leaders of Novorossia ...- just shoot them or blow them up) ...- eliminates all law enforcement agencies .. that have arisen in Novorossia for the entire time of its independence and will slowly introduce its dill troops ... -And there will be a complete terror ...- who can prevent this from dill ... -Nobody ...

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Stas157

I do not see a reason for joy.

This is because you have not read a single line of the Minsk Agreements, and the very formula. Return to the sources.
Everywhere there is the participation of LDNR. And without their consent, nothing can be done. And our brothers there feel our support and are not going to give up.
So, the title of this article is most likely the reason. according to which Ukrainians will not go to its adoption.

[Alex Nevs]

All Ukrainin otshanmayreyut!

[RoTTor]

"Steinmeer's formula" is UNrealistic, because it is UNrealizable, it was late / slipped by five years. Today it will not suit any DPR - LPR, which will never return to today's Ukraine. And Ukraine is more afraid of their return - for the nationalist it is the loss of power in the country.
For ZE -path
Is the loser Poroshenko-revanchist rocking Kiev?
Or Avakov, now his move - he will either take real power, or fly out of power if he overdid it and overheated the situation. having lost control of their "virtuous". The collapse of the country went ahead of schedule

[Goldmitro]

Quote: Stas157

I do not see a reason for joy.

P.S. One of the next steps under this plan is the taking of the borders of Donbass and Russia under their control by Bandera.
Reply

Remember, at the beginning of the events, when the Maydanuty people were very afraid that the wave of resistance from the southeast could expand to the whole of Ukraine, one leading Maydanuty banderlog said that Now we need to agree with the separatists on everything, and we will hang them later! And there were Minsk agreements, which the Madanut initially were not going to fulfill, but which they were allowed to strengthen! They follow this policy today: by signing new agreements according to Steinmeier’s formula, gaining control over the border and then, spitting on all agreements and election results, start clearing LDNR territories with a famous bloody result! Both the West and all these Steinmeier will look favorably on this, and Russia will be faced with the dilemma of intervening or expressing the concern so beloved by our liberals!

[bar]

representative of Kiev put his signature on a document called the Steinmeier formula

To promise is not to marry. They signed signatures under the Minsk agreements, not for the first time

[Incvizitor]

In Ukraine, the information that the representative of Kiev put his signature on a document called the Steinmeier formula was rapidly received.

But when the "Euroassociation" was signed, which practically destroyed the economy, nobody there worried.

[Zliy_mod]

I don’t know what this almost destroyed economy seemed to you. But judging by the strengthening of the hryvnia and the main trade with the European Union, then yes, the Ukrainian economy is "torn to shreds" ©, hmm somewhere I have already heard that ...

[garrett]

But judging by the strengthening of the hryvnia and the main trade with the European Union

Roman, I’m not a stubborn patriot who is hateful. BUT ... I would like to explain to you the nature of this TEMPORARY phenomenon and the consequences of the economic policy of Kiev. Two factors contribute to the strengthening of the hryvnia: 2- T-bills at 1-15% (this is a financial pyramid at the state level, remember 18, doesn’t it remind anything ?? ), 2 - transfers from zarobitchan (in the short and medium term it is good, in the long term it will lead to many negative consequences). The result is a little predictable)))
ps if interested, I can expand my answer a little later

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: 210ox

By the way. V. Putin suggested concluding an agreement on transit through VNA. So far for a year, it seems.

How else? Nord Stream-2 run to winter is not in time. In January, the transit agreement will end. Leave Europe without gas, and by itself, without money for gas, and even with fines for non-delivery? Enrage all of Europe, and prove that we are blackmailing, using energy for our own purposes? Of course, everything will be presented that way. A respite is needed, perhaps humiliating, but .......

[Sapsan136]

Your whole country is on the map of 1654, within the borders of which you came from Poland to Russia, and everything else has the right to self-determination, which was deprived of under the Bolsheviks and the monarchy ...