Working specialties in Russia are not in fashion today

It is no secret today that our country is currently experiencing an acute shortage of skilled workers. Graduates of Russian schools dream of being managers, lawyers, just not to stand at the machine, not to engage in real production.

Despite the fact that today, in the field of working specialties, there is an increase in salaries, working professions are still not in vogue among young people.

But in the Soviet period, a person of a working specialty enjoyed considerable respect, he had decent wages, benefits, he was provided with housing, social guarantees, and films and documentaries were shot about him. Today's “documentary”, along with numerous “social” talk shows, is more and more about extramarital children of famous actors with paternity testing, about sharing property and other family and near-family “showdowns”.

Does modern Russia really need talented engineers? Why does our country need only consumers, service personnel, and not inventors and creators? Why are working specialties not so popular among school graduates today? What are the possible reasons for the shortage of workers in the Russian market? How can the imperfection of the educational system affect the lack of qualified specialists? A student of MSTU im. Bauman in the next letter of the national project of Konstantin Semin “Letters. Last call".

Comments

[Egoza]

And there was no need to destroy the Soviet education system! And workers should receive decent wages on an equal footing with managers. Yes, and TV tried - what is not a series, then the rich Buratino, passionate love with a simpleton, and now she is a prosperous life. I'm not talking about everyday Malakhov! Who are they suffering from? Over prostitutes, drug addicts, alcoholics, ah, forgive the "stars". How they cure and recover! And they become rich again. At least one program about workers! But there are no scandals, no pregnancies, no blacks - but that people work and thanks to them the country lives ... and who cares!

[Corn]

And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers.

universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.
I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Corn

Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.

[Lexus]

paradise for degenerate drunkards

In modern Russia, one such person even managed to register as president, then "tired".

[Corn]

If the events for you 20 years ago are “modern Russia”, then I have bad news for you.

[Lexus]

All clear. Generation of "one-day". I ate, village .. @ l, slept - life is "beautiful"!

[Graz]

you write excuse nonsense, skilled labor should be paid so that people can live, and not eke out a miserable existence, if a person gets a penny, then he will work, does not seek to improve in the profession, about new high-tech equipment where workers are not needed and goes let’s say after six months of service, these are dreams and fairy tales, because as the current owner doesn’t go for such expenses, he will squeeze out all available equipment and patch it up, because the last presses, if they pay a penny, then buy high tech will never remember that

[Monster_Fat]

labor should be paid so that people can live, and not eke out a miserable existence ....

Oh, it is. I was with my brother in St. Petersburg, I see the door at his entrance is ajar (supported by a piece of wood). At the exit, the Tajik is tired, with a dirty rag on the floor, "spreads patterns", like, "washes the floors" - I told him: "You at least washed the rag and replaced the water in the bucket, there is only dirt ...." ceasing to crawl with a rag): "As they pay, I work ... Say thank you that even though I'm cleaning it .... if you don't like it, take it yourself and clean it ...."

[Vadim237]

Hence the conclusion - ours finally got lazy and became indifferent.

[Revival]

Cheap, that's angry.
Because they pay a penny then they can’t ask for quality.
That's when they will pay normally, not a lot, but so that they have enough for a normal life, then they will ask for leverage and the right.
And that is more like lamentations "the slave went lazy, not conscious" ...

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Hence the conclusion, capitalism is to blame! Does not give an incentive to work!

[lukewarm]

Quote: SOVIET UNION 2

Does not give an incentive to work!

This is always a problem. Not a supporter of capitalism, rather its victim, but ... In the SSR, motivation was also unimportant. Those who really wanted money, "grabbed", sabbath, left "to the north." The merchant fleet - generally WOW ... But the rest ... So so. Work a little, endure a little.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: unwillingly

So-so. Work a little, make a little.

was the case.
like Zhvanetsky - who guards what he has (not an exact quote)

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Monster_Fat

Say thank you that even so, I clean it .... I do not like it, take it yourself and clean it ....

In truth, for the sake of it, it always infuriates me, I don’t like the salary, quit, signed up for SPECIFIC money for a SPECIFIC work, kindly do it in good faith

[nikvic46]

Vladimir The fact of the matter is that it is extremely rare for us to conclude contracts, and the responsibilities of not only the executor, but also the employer should be spelled out in them.

[Barmaleyka]

and without a contract, if you took on a specific job at a specific price, and then you start to twirl your tail?
must something be inside the person?

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: nikvic46

Vladimir The fact of the matter is that it is extremely rare for us to conclude contracts, and the responsibilities of not only the executor, but also the employer should be spelled out in them.

the oral contract is the same as the written one.
have you agreed? do it. does not fit one of the parties parted.

[AU Ivanov.]

In the USSR, an engineer earned less than a worker. It is not normal. And so - you are absolutely right: equality in poverty.

[VeteranVSSSR]

There are different engineers. A good specialist always got well.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

There are different engineers. A good specialist always got well.

young engineer received 120r. a good start

[VeteranVSSSR]

120: 0,14 = 857 loaves of bread, or
120: 1,9 = 63 kg of beef (per bone), or
120: 0,3 = 400 packs of cigarettes like ,, Java / Pegasus: 10 = 40 blocks !!!!
The salary is 120+ premium, and this is at least 40% + category + quarterly ... and do not cry.
Just for comparison, you had to live at that time ....

[Cat man null]

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

The salary of 120 + is premium, and this is not less than 40% + category + quarterly ..

Ummm ... where does the young specialist get a category from? And about 40% of premiums - straighten and do not bend anymore ... and quarterly - not always and not at all happened, if

From these 120 taxes were also paid - income, and "on eggs". The bottom line is 98. So what about the kilograms of beef made from bones?

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

for comparison, you had to live at that time ....

I'm the 62 of the year, my friend. I found both this and that time. Would you like to argue? Toda you will need more powerful arguments ... Buddy

[VeteranVSSSR]

So school finished in 79/80 ...
Salary is bare money, without progression / bonus, which was paid according to the results of the previous month without fail.
Argument-since 1976 did not work at Horizon software it was like this
.
And about beef 120: 3.3 = 36 kg of beef (tenderloin) -argumet?
The 59g / p argument itself?

[Cat man null]

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

So school finished in 79

That's right.

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

Salary is bare money, without progression / bonus, which was paid according to the results of the previous month without fail

What is a salary - I know. As well as the fact that the salary was designated "before taxes". What is now called gross

And as for the progression and other gingerbread cookies - it wasn’t everywhere, far from everywhere ... I have it in the Ministry of General Engineering, as an example - this was not for engineers.

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

argument? argument? argument?

For you - probably yes. In the general case, no.

[Maki Avellevich]

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

120: 0,14 = 857 loaves of bread, or
120: 1,9 = 63 kg of beef (per bone), or
120: 0,3 = 400 packs of cigarettes like ,, Java / Pegasus: 10 = 40 blocks !!!!
The salary is 120+ premium, and this is at least 40% + category + quarterly ... and do not cry.
Just for comparison, you had to live at that time ....

He lived at that time. In the late 80s, I remember the choice was this - birch sap in three liter jars or extra salt.
Sometimes a harsh set
And you say beef at 1,9.

[lukewarm]

On Comte there is such an author, Blonde Blonde. Not familiar with creativity?

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Corn

And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers.
universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries. I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

Eka poked you. The question is not that to achieve universal "poverty equality", but that hard workers should have decent wages and respect for them for the work they do. If managers or designers do not come to work within a month, then the hard worker will survive, but if electricians and plumbers are hammered into work, then designers and managers, together with deputies and senators, will drown in shit in pitch darkness.

[Vadim237]

We now have many of those who pay a lot - but they will work only from a kick.

[Revival]

First try to pay a lot, try, and then ask

[Vadim237]

Already paid and I’m not alone - enough, those who work normally pay normally.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

so we pay normally.

specifically WHERE PAY?

[Vadim237]

Moscow, Volgograd region. If the guys succeed, then in the Astrakhan region we will begin to pay.

[Barmaleyka]

do not play the fool, you still write the planet earth, specifically what kind of production and what salaries

[Vadim237]

Custom-made parts, sliding bearings, CNC operator 140000 - in Moscow, a Mercedes BMW service is a mechanic from 100000 to 200000.

[Barmaleyka]

that is, you contradict yourself, yet a worker can get a decent salary without working for himself

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Is this about our talented managers?

[nikvic46]

Vadim. I completely agree with you. This was the case before. But now there are many who consider work to be a punishment. Or they say, "To work at a factory? This is a mess for me."

[VeteranVSSSR]

Sorry, Narobsky, but hard workers cut down the forest ...

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: VeteranVSSSR

Sorry, Narobsky, but hard workers cut down the forest ...

They practically do not knock down. Timber felling went down in history 15 years ago, together with the liquidation of forest departments and settlements where the colonies stood. Now they pinch a little. So - "the forest fell, the balans rolled" this is already mythology.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Corn

I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

You don’t need to chop everyone on the head with a saber, this is the Ukrainian version. A man lives in his homeland of Russia, and how does your language turn to tell him so. It highlights the flaws, but we are not deaf and dumb as if it were a square. (Do not forget that tomorrow they can tell you this as well) Regards and sorry, that’s harsh.

[sunzhenets]

Quote: Corn

universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.
I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

1. Degenerative drunkards in the USSR were treated forcibly. Unlike the Russian Federation.
2. I do not know where you got your "unmotivated work". At the Krasny Molot plant, where I worked, all workers were perfectly motivated by bonuses. If the master said that it was necessary to go out on Saturday, they went out without problems.
3. Now there is no shortage of high-quality industrial equipment ... There is no industry either.
In the city where I live, during the Soviet era, they worked: a fish factory and a fish processing plant, a PMK, a building materials plant, a cooper factory, a shipyard, a bakery, a brewery. Now only the brewery remains. All around there are shopping centers and signs "Rent".
4. Only faithful adherents of EP should live in Russia? Edros' dream - there were Putin with Medvedev, the State Duma and SovFed, Kadyrov, Gazprom and the pipe.
We like Russia - we don’t like what they do to it.

[Vadim237]

3. "Now there is no shortage of high-quality industrial equipment ..." "There is no industry either." And who do we have then: tanks, aircraft, missiles, reactors, rocket engines, tractors, trucks, jet and rocket engines, alloys, chemical components, and much more - release air?

[SOVIET UNION 2]

And on whose equipment is all this going? Thanks to the foreigners? The same GAZ and KAMAZ have foreign components. Recently, there was an article on industrial robots at VO. Russian robots were not there. And in terms of import-export, the lion's share of exports is not occupied by machinery and equipment. But commodity exports dominate.

[Vadim237]

These components are localized in Russia every year - it is expensive and takes a long time to transport from abroad. And the equipment is also localized in Russia by the same DMG plant in Ulyanovsk. STAN already produces its own, like other companies, there are those that modernize the old ones, changing the center drives and make them out of ordinary CNCs. "Recently, there was an article on VO about industrial robots. There were no Russian robots there." Actually there were - you just forgot.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

tractor

here at least kill live on the earth of the RUSSIAN tractor did not see a single

[Barmaleyka]

set the minus well, name the place where you saw the RUSSIAN tractor

[Vadim237]

Kirovets K 744, K 9000 to choose a modification with YaMZshnym motors or Daimler - the choice of the client.

And also In 1997, the company "Agrotechmash" was established which specialized in the supply of equipment "Kirovets" and spare parts for it. Soon, the company became the general sales company of the St. Petersburg Tractor Plant and set about forming an extensive dealer network. In addition, the “Agrotechmash” company was entrusted with the functions of popularizing “Kirovtsev” and developing new models. Rapidly developing and expanding its specialization, the company in 2005 came to the creation of its own model line of tractors under the brand TERRION. So there were popular TERRION tractors with indexes 3180, 5280 and 7360.

[Barmaleyka]

Have you been on earth for a long time ?!
I live here from "domestic" only old balarus, and leave these pictures, for reports in the Duma
about Kirovets read reviews he didn’t fall to anyone with his characteristics and their production volume is declining
In addition, of those tractors that are produced in the Russian Federation, 54% are screwdriver assembly of foreign brands, do not disgrace with the import of grain in 63, you already sat in a puddle

[Vadim237]

"He did not fall to anyone" - He did not fall for you - Kirovtsy are bought quite a lot, 130 such tractors were delivered to the Volgograd region last year. "In addition, 54% of the tractors produced in the Russian Federation are screwdriver assemblies of foreign brands" - Less than 30% localization continues and these machines are in demand both on the domestic and foreign markets. TERRION in 2018 entered the top ten best tractors in the world. Here is the new Belarusian - as you can see the trend

. About grain purchases
"In 1963, the USSR bought 10,4 million tons and 2,1 million tons of flour from the United States. Part of the purchases was not spent on domestic consumption, but was forced to re-export. The severity of the crisis was temporarily lifted, and in 1964 grain exports from the USSR again exceeded its imports, but in 1965, already under Brezhnev, the previous situation was repeated.Anew crisis came out with the purchase of another 9 million tons of grain, and the usual balance was restored again.
The USSR has become a chronic dependence on food imports since 1972. In that year, only 1 million tons of grain were exported from the USSR, and 23 million tons were imported. The years 1975 and 1979 were especially critical in this respect, when grain exports fell to almost zero, at the same time, respectively, 27 million (according to other sources - 22 million) and 31 million tons of grain were purchased.
In 1980, imports amounted, in gross terms, to 43 million tons. And finally, the "blackest" year was 1985, when they had to buy 47 million (45,6 million according to other sources) tons of grain. In many ways, it was precisely such a strong food dependence of the USSR that became one of the incentives of the Soviet leadership to declare the Perestroika policy.
It should be noted that in earlier years, for example, in the 1950s, when the USSR mainly exported grain, there was also a stable import of 1–2 million tons per year. These were purchases of high-quality wheat varieties that were not grown in the USSR, including the purchase of varietal seeds for subsequent breeding in the USSR. Thus, it can be argued that the USSR, with the exception of short periods, always bought grain abroad. "- The re-export of grain bought with its own gold and foreign exchange reserves - I can even guess where it went - for gratuitous assistance to the fraternal peoples of the social system around the world - one might say one leadership of the USSR D ...... s. "Have you been on earth for a long time ?!" I have been on earth for a long time - and you are still flying in soviet space.

[Barmaleyka]

once again I live on earth I SEE it and not a single domestic tractor, combine, grain dryer I do not observe

[Foul skeptic]

The USSR has become chronicly dependent on food imports since 1972.

I have long noticed - the argument is Ctrl + C Ctrl + V from any sites that tear news or articles from each other. This is easily verified. It may be better to resort to an independent search in specialized collections - does such a search make you analyze the information found and draw an independent conclusion, rather than the one that someone put into the relayed articles?
Have you checked the article you copied? The first figure, in 1975, turned out to be false - grain imports 15,9 million tons, and not 27 (22). Moreover, of these 15,9 - 5,5 million tons of fodder corn. The remaining numbers are a match.
In a previous article, I already wrote and gave you numbers - in the USSR in the 80s WITHOUT import, there was more grain per person than now in the Russian Federation.

Banal food security, the norm of which is 1 ton per person of grain per year. Plus the needs of animal husbandry (because grain is not only wheat), which can be offset by the transition from cattle to poultry, which Russia did.

And the fact that you are happy for the large import now is also an indicator of attitude towards people, when people are nothing, profit is everything. Now it’s better to sell more for the hill, and people can bake bread by adding a flour from unsold bakery products to flour, which were also grinded before, but were used only as an addition to livestock in agriculture.

[Vadim237]

"And the fact that you are happy about the large import now." I am happy for exports, including my own - for this all the country receives real money and I do the same, and not the loyalty and barter of other countries - which cannot be smeared on bread as it was in the USSR. If you want high-quality and good bread - pay more or bake it yourself, for this there is everything on sale.

[sunzhenets]

Quote: Vadim237

And who do we have then: tanks, aircraft, rockets, reactors, rocket engines, tractors, trucks, jet and rocket engines, alloys, chemical components and much more - air

https://red.msk.ru/v-rossii-likvidiruyutsya-krupnejshie-traktornye-zavody/
According to the head of Rostec, Sergey Chemezov, the largest engineering concern in Russia, Tractor Plants, will be declared bankrupt. His debts amount to 85 billion rubles, and, as Chemezov admits, "the financial recovery of the company is currently impossible."
The structure of the Concern Tractor Plants includes the following production sites:
Altai Motor Plant OJSC - liquidated
Vladimir Motor-Tractor Plant LLC - liquidated
OJSC PA Krasnoyarsk Combine Plant - declared bankrupt
"Volgograd Engineering Company" VgTZ "- liquidated
Zauralsky Forge and Foundry - is on the verge of bankruptcy
OJSC Krasnoyarsk Forest Engineering Plant (Kralesmash)
Lipetsk Caterpillar Tractor Plant - declared bankrupt
Onega Tractor Plant - declared bankrupt
PJSC Promtractor - declared bankrupt
JSC "Promtractor Wagon" - declared bankrupt
LLC "Promtractor-Promlit" - declared bankrupt
SAREX OJSC (production of excavators) - declared bankrupt
"Tractor company" VgTZ "- declared bankrupt
PJSC Cheboksary Aggregate Plant - declared bankrupt
Volzhsky combine plant.
OJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (Kurganmashzavod)

[Revival]

Excuse me, the Red Hammer is not Grozny? And then there was such a plant earlier

[sunzhenets]

Quote: Revival

Excuse me, the Red Hammer is not Grozny? And then there was such a plant earlier

Yes, Grozny. In its place, I heard, now the market.

[Revival]

I realized, thanks, I was there a long time ago, about 25 years ago, like 94m or 95

[Varyag71]

Thanks to people like you, all this is now in your Russia

[Vadim237]

Unfortunately, this was all inevitable, since the USSR produced, but did not earn nichrine, the lion's share of exports was barter and the loyalty of dozens of countries - that’s what got burned.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

It’s strange. Offset doesn’t roll? Or is it necessary to take safes with cabbage back and forth? I bought potatoes for 100 rubles from you, and you have my markos for 100 rubles. I gave you 100 rubles for a potato with one bill, did you give me 100 rubles for a potato with two notes at 50 rubles? What is the trick brother?

[Vadim237]

"Strange. Offset doesn't work?" Mutual offset of what - the USSR to them: machines, equipment, materials, food and loans - they give us back "coconuts" and loyalty to the USSR - potatoes, like money, went only in one direction. And then they were surprised that we were producing all this, and the country had a deficit of everything. The trick is just this.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

the lion's share of exports was barter and the loyalty of dozens of countries - on this and burned.

for that now he earns up to ... but at the same time it all goes offshore, invests in yachts. mansions and gold toilets

Quote: Vadim237

but nichrina did not earn

and most importantly in the USSR - SELF-SUFFICIENCY, we produced underpants, refrigerators, sausages, and civilian aircraft

[Vadim237]

"And the main thing in the USSR is SELF-SUFFICIENCY" Not a single country in the world has had and never will. The USSR is no exception - since it bought equipment abroad: in Japan, trucks for the timber industry in Germany, machine tools, grain in 1963 bought 9,5 million tons, and for another seven years they bought it - having given a third of the gold and foreign exchange reserves "supposedly fodder grain" - but in fact, the same meat was in short supply, since it was exported, and they began to shamanize with sausage in 1968.

[Foul skeptic]

"Strange. Offset doesn't work?" Mutual offset of what - the USSR to them: machines, equipment, materials, food and loans - they give us back "coconuts" and loyalty to the USSR - potatoes, like money, went only in one direction. And then they were surprised that we were producing all this, and the country had a deficit of everything. The trick is just this.

grain in 1963, 9,5 million tons were purchased, and for another seven years they bought - having given a third of the gold and foreign exchange reserve "supposedly fodder grain" - but in fact the same meat was in short supply, since it was exported, and they began to shaman 1968th.

How about peas on the wall, the same thing from message to message, no matter what numbers and documents you bring.

[Vadim237]

You have never given me anything in fact - and I will give you historically documented facts.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

Not a single country in the world has had it and never will. The USSR is no exception - as it bought equipment from abroad: in Japan, trucks for the timber industry in Germany were machine tools, grain was purchased in 1963, 9,5 million tons,

Well, with regard to grain imports in the USSR, this is such a myth as the gigantic growth of industry in the Republic of Ingushetia at the beginning of the last century and import substitution in the Union of Artists in today's Russia, and since you were 63, you generally went to a puddle of grain import in 63 in 4 times lower than export
just with grain, you need to clearly separate what was exported by variety, what was imported, how much it cost, etc.

about everything else, self-sufficiency is when a country can provide itself with all the vital things, the USSR could not have the Russian Federation if we are now introduced to REAL sanctions and a blockade, we will have "Leningrad" on the scale of the entire country

Quote: Vadim237

but in fact the meat was in short supply

WHERE?!!!!!
was not in the shops, although this was not quite so at the bazaars

[Vadim237]

"The USSR could the Russian Federation, if we are now imposed on REAL sanctions and a blockade, we will have" Leningrad "on the scale of the WHOLE country" all electricity, and everything else of vital importance is produced - what kind of blockade are you talking about - go down from heaven to earth, if we put a brick in Europe for the supply of gas and oil - half of its economy will stop, so sit on other people's energy resources, because its not, green energy that they introduce there will never replace gas, oil and nuclear energy. It will not work to block Russia from all sides; a country that is too large, too many air corridors pass through us, and the turnover of goods through our territory is huge.

[Barmaleyka]

first, in 4 years one could learn and insert quotes
the second

Quote: Vadim237

no products at all

and we won’t have it if tomorrow the import of spare parts and fertilizer seeds is closed to us, you can tell tales about import substitution in the CX further, but not to those who live on earth

Quote: Vadim237

if we put a brick on gas and oil supplies to Europe, half of its economy will rise

DO NOT RISE Not afraid of Americans podsuetsutsya you really thinks that the war in Syria is a struggle against the igil and other beards ?!

Quote: Vadim237

Russia cannot block Russia from all sides

it wouldn’t work for the USSR, the Americans were calculating us and how we were, we destroyed our pharmaceuticals, that remained working on imported raw materials, we don’t have our own fleet of civil aviation aircraft, our seeds, and our equipment, we don’t even provide ourselves with underpants and socks, so believe in your mantras further

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Quotes to embed on the VO is rather dreary. Easier as Vadim.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: SOVIET UNION 2

Quotes to embed on the VO is rather dreary. Easier as Vadim.

well don't tell anyone

[SOVIET UNION 2]

What's so funny? It’s not so easy to insert quotes on the VO. [Quote] [/ quote] Here is the result of quoting. Easier to select and paste. And takes up less space.

[Barmaleyka]

highlighted, clicked a quote, no problems

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Why is my quote not inserted?

[Barmaleyka]

which browser?
earlier than 4 years ago there were glitches with IE

[Barmaleyka]

there is a second method inserted through Ctr + V, then select the desired text in the input field and click on quotation marks

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Some kind of bastard put you minus. Minute without hesitation.

[/ quote] It is worth Yandex. buttons without English names. [quote]

What kind of nonsense?

[Vadim237]

"WON'T RISE Do not be afraid the Americans will hurry up, do you really think that the war in Syria is a fight against igils and other beards ?!" Rather, run to Navalny there people like you adore - so from 2000 to 4000 militants from Russia howling on the side of ISIS in Syria, you can leave them - they are your relatives "Brother for Brother is taken as a basis."

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

Run to Navalny soon there, such as you adore - so from 2000 to 4000 militants from Russia fighting on the side of ISIS in Syria, you can leave them -

that is, you are off the beaten track with both Kirovets and grain export, to Oyna in the Middle East, especially for you this is a war for the transportation of gas, by the way

[Vadim237]

"That is, you are out of tune with the Kirovtsi and with the export of grain, the war in the Middle East, especially for you this is a war for the transportation of gas to the word" Especially for such "shovel brakes" - do not fill me with garbage from icteric sites ... The war there will continue for a long time, and until the entire territory is cleared of explosives - and this will take at least another ten years, there can be no question of any joint oil production by our companies in Syria.

[Barmaleyka]

What have you uploaded from icteric sites?
clearly and distinctly without snot and everything else, the volume of exports and imports of grain of the USSR in 1963, call

Quote: Vadim237

there can be no talk of any joint oil production by our companies in Syria.

you are a funny person but in general what does production in Syria have to do with it ?!
learn the mate part, maybe you are doing bearings and it’s good, I can’t check there is no company name, and in principle you don’t know the topic

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Corn

high-quality industrial equipment and even commonplace food, all this is not only in the former USSR

do not write nonsense about what you don’t know, the Union had quite modern equipment for itself, another question is that if the machine worked but was old, then no one changed it, now it’s the turn for the new one, regardless of whether there is a technological need for it or no

Quote: Corn

I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

Excuse me, but can you find out your age, education and position in which you work ?!

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Corn

universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drinkers

and when was universal POVERTY equality ?!

[Vadim237]

"If you don't like Russia - get lost in the DPRK" Thousands of poachers have already sailed from the DPRK to our shores, the ideology of Chukhche is nothing to eat "But you will find food from Russia" this will continue with increasing force, they will open fire to kill and drown everyone without further ado.

[Revival]

Then, by your logic, capitalism is scrapped.
You pulled out a short piece from the history of the life of the USSR and write that this was the only thing, and that can only be under socialism.
Ok, take your method to capitalism ...
We take the time of the "Great Depression in the USA" (we also pull out a piece from the history of the country and there was nothing more point-blank and that's it):
"Capitalism is a dead end, people drag out a miserable existence, swell with hunger, there is a wave of suicides and bankruptcies across the country, they work for a bowl of soup, such a system, never again, that's enough!"
Here is such an objectivity and your comment about life in the USSR.

[Vadim237]

In North Korea, socialism is now - and hunger, fuel, deficit, electricity, deficit; all materials; there is almost no tractor shortage in the agricultural sector, and so on. Capitalism is better. You do not forget that it is precisely capitalism that creates everything advanced - in this the USSR has always been lagging behind, both in mechanical engineering, in electronics and electronic components, as well as in civilian consumer goods.

[Revival]

China says they have socialism.
And it seems that they do not have "hunger, fuel, shortage of electricity, shortage of all materials, there is almost no shortage of tractors in the agricultural sector, and so on."

[Cat man null]

Quote: Revival

China says they have socialism

Believe it yourself? What "China says" is ... not very interesting.

[Revival]

Well then, and in the sowing of Korea is not socialism and it is not an example

[Cat man null]

Quote: Revival

Well then, and in the sowing of Korea is not socialism

Well, if in the classics - there just takes place a ban on private ownership of the means of production, which, sort of, is considered the main sign of socialism.

So, I personally have no reason not to believe Eun.

[Vadim237]

China has a real market economy.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Well, in Afghanistan today there is nothing to eat. And in Iraq. And in Libya. Is socialism there too?

[eagle owl]

Not this way

One of the options for the destruction of the country - the country collapses just when working in the service sector becomes less honorable occupation than raising bread. Unfortunately, I do not remember the phrase in the original. And now we are just beginning to understand back what a country is. populated by the darkness of lawyers and economists, where no one is even able to turn on a light bulb without closing a cartridge in front of it with their fingers, is not viable.
Although there is how to say. In the 90s, for example, we laughed at the law school - "Well, look, a couple of years more, and you need to work, but what can you do? Okay, if the folder with your mother will find you a job, and this is the same version of sitting on your parents' neck - and if not? As a cop from the movie - do you know how to do something? Yes, there is something to fall into despair. "

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Uhu

One of the options for the destruction of the country - the country collapses just when working in the service sector becomes less honorable occupation than raising bread.

Maybe on the contrary, more honorable?

[eagle owl]

Yes, I'm sorry. Well, yes, you understand the meaning)

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Egoza

And it was not necessary to destroy the Soviet system of education!

I agree with you, education has been destroyed. But it is destroyed, just like the Soviet Union, it is impossible to build a capitalist society without destroying the socialist society to its foundations. Likewise, workers' specialties, because our main slogan of socialism is "Workers of all countries unite." So the proletarian is not needed now, only managers and slaves are needed.

[Vadim237]

If you want to earn a lot and be well-to-do, complete an IP, create your own production or services, create products and sell them on the domestic market, with the subsequent transition to foreign markets - the path is complex and long, no one will become rich right away, you need to make no small work. Without knowledge, problems cannot be overcome, but they will be with everyone and everyone will have to learn, someone before, someone later - this is inevitable.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Being all wealthy is how? Sociologists have already conducted surveys of the wishes of the population. requests turned out to be rather modest. To have palaces and factories among desires, they and I did not notice. But to have a job with a salary allowing it to live for the elite? If the military is given housing today, is it a freebie or communism? Why is it impossible in civilian life? If officials are paid good salaries, is it a freebie or communism?

[Vadim237]

In one of the polls for a good life, it was 219000 rubles a month, in the second 68000 in the third, 97000 - a complete discrepancy at the request of complete and contradicting each other - polls of residents of Russia.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Very modest requests! Even half a million did not want to! Not a day, not a month!

[Vadim237]

I would generally reduce 60% of all officials from the State Duma to the village administration - I replaced the functional with one window and state Internet services on various issues - online.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

And put them on a paycheck calculated as a multiple of the minimum or the percentage of deductions working for the management fund. For example, 0.01% of deductions from salaries go to the salaries of officials. It would probably be fair.

[Revival]

I already have an IP.
But many say that in the West workers have productivity, and they are paid.
Then, probably, we also have a labor schedule like in Spain, where the driver was driving, and then lunch, he stopped the train in the field and all stop "lunch" or maybe like in Germany, when at the 1st second of lunch and the end of the working day a working bucket of paint poses at any stage and home.
We also have this or "it is necessary for free for the idea" to stay, lift and load something that people cannot lift by weight by hand, go out on weekends and what kind of double and voluntarily compulsory consent is it good that they were not fired?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Revival

in spain the work schedule, where the driver was driving, and then lunch, he stopped the train in the field and all stop "lunch"

Well, okay. And pilots, Spanish, planes for lunch at the airport, or parked in the sky?

Quote: Revival

I can answer you as a lawyer ... I have an IP

Knowledge about the "routine in Spain - Germany" from there, go?

Why not hear enough on the Internet ... Noah's ark, practically - each creature has a pair

[Revival]

I wanted to give a meaningful answer, but this is on duty you are "emptiness".
Not worth it ..

[Cat man null]

Quote: Revival

you are "emptiness"

Well, still better than yap internet

Quote: Revival

Not worth it ..

... but how it hangs (s)

Thorough, Thorough

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

If you want to earn a lot and be well-to-do, get an IP

firstly, not everyone can create YOUR own enterprise, and secondly, you contradict yourself why working in someone else’s enterprise, I can’t get a WAY worthy salary for my work, but on your own please
the problem is the distortion of our economy

[Vadim237]

If you want to live well, you will have to do it, otherwise no one will pay you much. Because the owner has the right to pay at his discretion - the minimum wage is from her and dance. At the enterprise no one keeps you - you can leave.

[Revival]

But here it was.
One comment exposed ...
The veils of compulsion, justice, a state approach, humanity slept ...
It turned out to be just an irrepressible desire to take everything to the "owner", and not as much as necessary, but everything.
And they talked about labor productivity, but it turns out at least "1000" productivity at least "54", I'm just the owner and want to take everything from you.
Cynical cannibalistic approach ...
And then such "owners" are surprised that sooner or later they take everything and not only money from them by "soft" methods.
The owners do not understand that this society provides them with the opportunity to be "owner" in general, and in general to be.

[Vadim237]

"Cynical cannibalistic approach ..." This is a worldwide reality - people are always not enough and they want more and more. "And then such" owners "are surprised that sooner or later they take away everything and not only money from them by" soft "methods." - Take away only from suckers.

[Revival]

Yes, if, according to your logic, they take away only from "suckers", then you can see in the RI above there were some suckers in your opinion?
Or, nevertheless, the reason is that if 5% seized and seized everything from 95%, then sooner or later with further loss of coast, 95% will come and take away at least 5% of the suckers, even though they do not.
And by the way, by your logic, this is true!
With a cynical, inhuman approach, the "owners" have the right to cynically and "legitimately" profit from the bulk, and the bulk of the population also has the right
it is cynical and "legitimate" to come and take away!
And in this case, one cannot complain, because the cynical approach should work in both directions in fairness, otherwise it will turn out "and we have something for that."
Having removed moral responsibility from yourself, you also remove moral responsibility from your opponent!

[Barmaleyka]

you write specific nonsense
communicate with psychologists, most are NOT ABLE to lead due to psychological characteristics

[Vadim237]

I don’t need to go to a psychologist, you need to go to a psychologist - you haven’t entered yet, no one will give you anything, everyone is for himself and you are the creator of your own happiness.

[Barmaleyka]

once again, for the illiterate, psychologists are not only involved in brains, but also describe the behavior of people, so there is scientifically sound data on the percentage of people in society who have the inclinations of a leader and do not have them.
Further, I, the creator of my happiness, decided to become cool milling workers, but people like you think this is stupidity and nonsense, so I can not dream of big incomes because I went to work at a factory and did not open an IP

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

minimum wage from her and dance

a simple question, but tomorrow EVERYONE decided to create their own IP, then what ?!

[bar]

And it was not necessary to destroy the Soviet system of education!

The Soviet system of technical education was specialized and targeted, i.e. all vocational schools, technical schools and universities were tied to some basic industrial enterprises, for which and on the basis of which they trained personnel, as needed. And these personnel were mainly employed at these enterprises. After the death of these enterprises, educational institutions tried to survive, and reprofiled. Vocational schools / technical schools have become colleges, universities have begun to produce managers / brokers / economists / lawyers. Cherry on the cake - the European system, when instead of an engineer in any specialty, masters / bachelors are obtained.

[Chaldon48]

We must not forget that the poorest manager and lawyer is always the boss and the worker, and even for the most part an engineer, if he does not have the title of chief, they are obliged to carry out their orders directly or indirectly, and not vice versa. So the young man thinks that it is better for him to be the master of life or to follow someone’s instructions until the end of his days.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Chaldon48

So the young man thinks that it is better for him to be the master of life or to follow someone’s instructions until the end of his days.

that is, being a worker is bad ?!

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Egoza

on a par with managers

and the manager is who? !!!!
what is its function?

[Revival]

I can answer you, as a lawyer (representing different companies and individuals), on the example of agreeing on the terms of the contract, etc.
Here in this case, the "manager" is a check, rechecking the letters in the contract, specifications, laws, etc., Basically, on the subject of how not to answer under the contract and how the opponent dodges responsibility!
And all because, the lion's share of household contracts is initially aimed at the fact that both parties are not going to fulfill the contract initially (in full or in part). Here is such a system of irresponsibility in the country.
Almost always when I go to court from one of the parties, it turns out from the documents of the defendant that he not only cheated, but also him. Is always!
Therefore, a lawyer is extremely needed in this situation. But this is a consequence! And this need is generated by an extremely "unsuitable" reason, namely, the genetic irresponsibility of our "businessmen", who simply initially, upon concluding a contract, simply want to receive an advance payment and do nothing (and the like). This is just the birthmark of modern Russian business.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

What's in the joke about the contract? Why is the boat painted on one side? Who's guilty? Read the contract. The contract for the painting of the vessel was concluded on the one hand, by our brigade, on the other hand, by the river port. Is that all right? That's right! We have fulfilled our part of the contract, we have painted our side, there is no river port!

[Chaldon48]

Manager manager, versed in market relations, constantly leading the search for sales of goods owned by the company in which he works.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Chaldon48

Manager manager, versed in market relations, constantly leading the search for sales of goods owned by the company in which he works.

So you don’t know the same?
sorry, but the sale of goods logistics and the purchase of raw materials, for example, are two different things
and ONE person as a rule does not know how to do this; besides, there are industry specifics, regional ones, etc.
today's manager is an amateur

[Chaldon48]

I just quoted one paper, which in 1992 I had a chance to read at the so-called accelerated business courses, which at that time had an incredible amount.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Chaldon48

at the so-called accelerated business courses

and in the Union this was taught for 5 years

[Revival]

Your reproach about education would be logical if it were accidentally destroyed.
But they destroyed the education system in a directed and special way, this was one of the goals.
So the reproach is inappropriate here, it is their goal that they achieved and achieved, and the result suits them and they needed it.

[Chaldon48]

It is necessary to look more broadly, not only education but also health care has been destroyed, the whole system of relations between people who grew up and brought up in the USSR, their very life is destroyed.

[Flatter]

The destruction of the education system is a logical step, after the destruction of the industrial economy. That is, the restoration of industry in the Russian Federation was not initially envisaged by Western curators.

[Uncle lee]

Well done Semin! Already the second burning question was highlighted in VO!

[lukewarm]

Despite the fact that today in the field of working specialties there is an increase in salaries,

Wow! Where is it? Can I have a reference? Everywhere the actual decline. The growth is basically this: they put a salary, removed the premium. Reported on salary growth. Everywhere. And if a pieceworker - then how lucky. There is work - there is a salary. No means no.
I agree only about the shortage of workers. Yes, the owners are looking for and cannot find. Do not queue at the checkpoint. Then working specialties - it's just the same word. Bricklayer, concrete worker, turner and cleaner are all working specialties. But they are in demand and paid in different ways. Mechanical engineering is dull in fact. Despite all the "achievements". Routine, low salaries.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: unwillingly

Do not stand in line at the checkpoint.

Within a 15-minute walk from my house, 4 enterprises were destroyed, which employed several thousand people. There are no checkpoints. But a couple of new ones appeared, which in the USSR would only be called shabashniki, since up to 10 people each work there. This is the "production" of beer from concentrate, the production of monuments for the cemetery, plus a funeral home. Everything for people!

[carstorm 11]

something I did not understand ... so engineers are not needed or workers? and then all the building faculties, for example, which I personally know there is a competition more than any other))) as well as I, for example, did not want to be a worker, I do not want and never want to be. I don’t want this for my children. and not because of some sort of rejection from these specialties, but I just want to give them the opportunity to reach the maximum in their careers and in life. and the level of the worker is definitely not that. and what’s wrong with that? I understand the desire to raise some professions in status, but why after such videos or articles I get the feeling that I'm to blame for something?)))

[bar]

something I did not understand ... so engineers are not needed or workers? and then all the building departments, for example, which I personally know there is a competition more than any other)))

Yes, in fact no one is needed. Competition is not an indicator. At one time, lawyers / economists broke. In the same medical schools, the competition goes off scale stably, but where are the doctors at the exit?

[carstorm 11]

Well, like there are doctors. to whom I take the children. and builders are an indicator. just look at HH.

[bar]

You're lucky. And my mother has 3 therapists in a polyclinic for 2 sites. One is 65 years old, the other is 72 years old. And both on disability. That’s how much longer they will last, and what will happen next?
There is not even a conversation about narrow specialists, only in the regional center, which is 120 km away.

[carstorm 11]

Well, in small towns this is really a problem. I do not argue with that. heard a lot. just did not come across. I think it's hard to drag specialists there.

[bar]

This is clear. But I will return to the education system. The same medical schools in the country did not decrease, the competition is stably large, there are a lot of graduates. Where do they go? After all, Moscow and all the surrounding intramuscular districts will not be so employed. So they work anywhere, and not necessarily in their specialty. Because no one wants to work in their specialty for beggarly wages in the same small cities. It turns out that they were not needed. The same is with other qualified specialties. Here is the demand for sales representatives, forwarding drivers and movers to work in the warehouse is consistently high. And the salaries are not bad due to the need for such specialties.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: bar

Because no one wants to work in their specialty for beggarly wages in the same small cities

the salary is not always beggarly, the more so it is necessary to compare it not with patches in MAAAskva but with general indicators in the region, the entire system of training and further steam distribution is done through one place, well, or intentionally everything goes to the abyss

[bar]

well, or intentionally everything goes to the abyss

I think there is no conspiracy theory here. Everything is much worse. Just all do not care. Just a mess ...

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: bar

And my mother has 3 therapists in a polyclinic for 2 sites.

we have ONE in the whole area and two weeks ahead of time, the flu itself will go away

[bar]

Well, you live in a village, on earth. And I wrote about the city, a former industrial center for military electronics.

[Barmaleyka]

But aren't people on earth?
Can their veterinarian cure?

[Corn]

It is not fashionable to be a rogue, and this is completely normal.
If the workers are not paid normal money, then their work is not very much in demand.

[Campanella]

Oooh, how is everything running!
Fashionable you are ours.
That’s why the country has been breaking the bottom for more than a year, because professional personnel for science, industry, education, medicine are not in demand in it ...

[Corn]

You specify which country breaks the bottom and what it is.
Kilometer-long lines for toilet paper - not the bottom, 7 square meters of housing per person and the mass construction of panel slums - is also not the bottom, even the flight of the population from the country as soon as possible - and this is not the bottom .... and only 20 years of stability and prosperity people are tormented by "patriots" like torture, I understand you correctly?

[Greenwood]

Quote: Corn

Kilometer-long lines for toilet paper - not the bottom, 7 square meters of housing per person and mass construction of panel slums

What do you mean?

Quote: Corn

flight of the population from the country as soon as possible

You described this modern Russia, where half of young people dream of this.

Quote: Corn

20 years of stability and prosperity

And where is stability and prosperity?

[lukewarm]

Stability and well-being except in comparison with the 90s. And so we did not even reach the level of the failed 89th, when everything was already falling apart. And is GDP growth within the limits of statistical error, officially recognized, is it not the bottom?

[Vadim237]

In the Union of Artists, they reached the 1989 level, and in the nuclear industry the same.

[Foul skeptic]

In the Union of Artists, they reached the 1989 level, and in the nuclear industry the same.

What sources did you use?

This is an agricultural overview plate. In addition to sugar beets and sunflowers, no particular progress is noticeable.

[Vadim237]

Do not tell me how much money it all earned in 1992? The volume of agricultural production in Russia in 2017 amounted to 5,7 trillion rubles (about $ 100 billion). In 2018 - 117 billion exports - $ 25 billion.
In 1978, a record grain harvest for the Soviet period was collected in the RSFSR - 127 million tons.
In 2017, the volume of grain and leguminous crops was 135,4 million tons. There is something wrong with your grain table.

Now the main thing is not how much or how much is in CX - but how much money it brings.

[Foul skeptic]

Do not tell me how much money it all earned in 1992? Now the main thing is not how much or how much is in CX - but how much money it brings.

An interesting approach to think so. And in the last correspondence, where you participated, I already wrote about the dynamics of prices in world markets. And that this only means that for the amount that the USSR was producing now they would receive more money, since they would sell more or not buy what we already have. Therefore, let's look at natural indicators. Otherwise, you can start counting everything in rubles. And the ruble "that" and our ruble are different rubles. And this is constantly forgotten. And in general, everything will become fun.

There is something wrong with your grain table.

Anything can be. Only the table is still not mine, but Rosstat, from their collection, on their website. And when you wrote the figures for 1978 and 2017 above, for some reason you compared "cereals" and "grains + legumes". And my table says "grain". But these are the little things in life and the nuances of statistics. )
And after your spreadsheet in Excel, I have a question for you - does it mean that they have not yet reached 1989? Or reached out? But how do you know the nameplate 2015 ends) Where did it come from?
And I will tell you the secret to the success of crop production - oilseeds, especially soybeans and rapeseed, the production of which has grown in relative terms the most, by 7 times. Although there is certainly progress, much more fertilizer is being introduced, higher yields, better feed, egg production, milk yield, etc. also higher, reduced by 10 times the loss of meat products of livestock. But who would say that if the USSR would contribute less, feed less, because they produce fertilizers and feed anyway more than they do now? ) And the oil prices would also be current)))

[Vadim237]

"And what does this only mean that for the amount that the USSR produced now would have received more money" - Only the USSR did not earn anything on the SH as well as on everything else, since the figure of 1989 with a GDP of 3 trillion rubles is export profit of only 54 billion dollars, this amount, even a tenth of the value, did not correspond to what the USSR exported for the year, and it has always been this way since the 50s - then the ruble was equal to the dollar - well, almost equal. And let's not compare Russia with the USSR - it included 15 countries, let's compare Russia with the RSFSR, but it's better not to compare at all - then there was a planned economy, now it is a market economy. Then they produced for the sake of whatever it is important to produce - you need it, you don't need it. And now we produce as much as we are ready to buy from us.

[Foul skeptic]

1989 figure with a GDP of 3 trillion rubles - export profit of only 54 billion dollars, this amount even a tenth of the value did not match what the USSR exported for the year

Last time I asked you for a source of information - the USSR did not use the GDP indicator (GNP and GP) and did not calculate exports in dollars. It may turn out to be the same as the one where in 1975 imported 27 million tons of grain
And he also asked me to indicate the origin of the tablet.

Then it was produced for the sake of which it is important to produce something - it is needed, not

Are you talking about now? What unnecessary thing was then produced from 20 million items of goods? And how is it unnecessary than the current ones, for example, a fan for cooling soup, an alarm dumbbell, drying for ears, etc.?

[Foul skeptic]

7 square meters of housing per person

What year is this? And then the figure is doubled.

mass construction of panel slums

Why are you so dismissive?
If they weren’t, then now the mass of people would have nowhere to stumble
In 1992, the housing stock was 2492 million m2 (16,8 m2 per person)
In 2017 - 3724 million m2 (25,2 m2 per person)
What do you think will happen if the "panel slums" you hate are thrown out of statistics? How many squares are there left per person? This is despite the fact that now, when calculating per person, statistics do not take into account migrants, who still occupy premises. Well, do not be lazy, find statistics on dilapidated and emergency housing, how do we manage to replace it with a new one?
Everyone didn’t live in the mansions either
The average apartment area in 1992 is 60,8 m2
In 2017 - 69,6 m2
The proportion of roominess is much more indicative (the first figure is 1992, the second is 2017)
one-room - 18 - 46
two-room apartments - 32 - 29
three-room apartments - 40 - 16
the rest - 10 - 9
People are happy with odnushka, but they don’t even dream about a three-ruble note - the market has adapted to the possibilities. And don’t have to, but about me.
Social Statistics I don’t even want to bring objects, just like not for social. however. Now we have a great achievement that the roads have finally begun to build. In 2017, as many as 2,3 thousand km. Where there is 1992 with 27 thousand.

[Vadim237]

"Where's 1992 with 27 thousand?" Most of them are likely to build unpaved ones much easier and cheaper than asphalt concrete.

[Foul skeptic]

Most of them are probably unpaved

No, 27 thousand are paved roads.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Corn

7 square meters of housing per person

you go to Europe and be surprised to know that Khrushchev is a luxury, and they don’t even dream about the Soviet communal services

Quote: Corn

and only 20 years of stability and prosperity of the people are tormented by "patriots" like torture, I understand you correctly?

Listen, how old are you?

[Loess]

Quote: Campanella

that it is not in demand

"Not in demand" and "not paid enough" are two different things.

[bar]

These are interrelated things. If a person is paid a beggarly salary, then he is not really needed, and if he leaves, nothing will cry for him. This time. And two - to get a qualified specialist, he must study, spend his time and money, which he must "recapture" by going to work. Accordingly, the payment for this work should be appropriate, so as not only not to die of hunger, but also to recoup the time / money spent.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: bar

it means he is not much needed, and if he leaves, nothing will cry for him.

you are such nonsense. this means that someone wants for free to get an employee, and in his place there are many others who want to

[bar]

So we are bearing the same nonsense, since we both said the same thing.

[Barmaleyka]

once again, the worker himself is needed, just bestial conditions are created under which a person is forced to work for a lower salary

[Lexus]

It’s not in fashion to be a rogue

And once upon a time? If only under the tsar-priest, because in the USSR they lived modestly, but there were no beggars.

completely normal

Alas, it is "perfectly normal" now to be a traitor, a thief, a jester, an idiot, a drug addict and a bugger.

[Vadim237]

In Russia, it has always been stolen, it is and always will be.

[Lexus]

Call for humility / learned patience / tolerance? There are plenty of "preachers" without you.

[Vadim237]

I state the fact. And tolerance and so on is your direction.

[Lexus]

And tolerance and stuff is your direction

Don’t record me in your ranks.

[Vadim237]

This is for kim the hell you drew here - "Call for humility / learned patience / tolerance?"

[Lexus]

In Russia it was always stolen, there is also will always be.

He endured and told you ...

[Vadim237]

"He endured and told you ..." What are you talking about? Who is he?

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

In Russia, they always stole

difference in scale and protrusion of the cooked

[lukewarm]

Quote: Corn

It’s not in fashion to be a rogue

Why are the zealous guardians of power in their contempt for the people so united with their opponents from the liberal camp? After all, Sobchak said the same thing. You still swear at quilted jackets. So that everyone understands. Not ... after all, you probably pee on Conte under the nickname "Blonde". Yes, Karl?

[Lexus]

Why are the zealous guardians of power in their contempt for the people so united with their opponents from the liberal camp?

I do not see the difference between them. They are one "heap of seeds". They do the "common cause", they profess the same "values".

[Saul_Rhen]

You can also call me a guardian, but I see the opposite. It is the local communists who jump in time with the bulk, liberals and other garbage, rejoice at the country's failures and pour tons of slop on it. You cannot look at you "patriots" without contempt.

[sniperino]

Quote: Saul_Rhen

It was local communists who jumped in time with the bulkiers, liberals and other garbage, rejoice at the country's failures and pour tons of slops on it.

The theoretical substantiation of this tactic of political struggle is given in Lenin's article "On the defeat of his government in the imperialist war." There is an information war going on today, and the training manuals are being developed by the State Department for Navalny, and the Communists, it seems to me, due to the absence of Lenin in their ranks and in order to save "party gold", clean out everything that concerns the USSR, leave all the dirt about the modern Russian Federation and supplement her mantra is "Tepericha is not what it was just now", replacing the blasphemy with the socialist system with a pastoral based on a dictionary of antonyms. Hence - such a synchronous high of our country of these seemingly very different political forces.

[lukewarm]

Quote: Saul_Rhen

You can also call me a guard

I will name it. The guardian is not equal to the patriot. Did you see what I answered with my comment? If not, then here: "It's not in fashion to be a rogue ...". All! Where, DEAR, I wrote something about the communists, etc. etc? And if they jump together with someone, I don't care. They do not call me a scoop, a quilted jacket and a rogue, they do not offer me to eat pasta like the Russian bureaucracy. This is enough for me. And it is not for you to determine who is a patriot and who is a "patriot". And then at first they privatized enterprises, now patriotism. Worthless! About slop - and pouring is not worth it. There are enough real ones, those around. And for the hundredth time I say: change your tactics if you really want to defend the authorities. Roughly: they misinterpreted the idea, challenged that they misinterpreted, made a conclusion and hung a label. Be subtle. Good luck.

[Saul_Rhen]

Not tired of writing an angry speech? You see, this site has a very beautiful thing - message history. And you have a 100 percent set of propaganda clichés and manuals in it. A typical daughter of an officer. From such excellent traitors come - "I am against the government, not against the country." It's familiar. Jump further

[lukewarm]

Tired ... from you Traitor .. Where can I get my 30 pieces of silver from the State Department? .Life will show. Quite good traitors were obtained from those who tore their throats at rallies. But in fact, they were crap. I have been on the site since 13 or 14. Take the trouble to read my earlier comments. I don’t suffer from "Odobryams", but it’s too early to write me down as an enemy. Yes, and in fact you did not answer me. We switched to the personality and history of comments. Then I finish the "dispute". Stoned are everywhere and do not melt. And I don't set such a goal. It hurt - he said. Be there. Once again, good luck on the information battlefield.

[JD1979]

The product of inadequate pay in the education system.

[Monster_Fat]

I found such on the internet, here, the data on the minimum wages in Latin America and in Russia (I don’t know how true they are):
Costa Rica - $ 438
Chile - $ 418
Uruguay - $ 415
Ecuador - $ 386
Guatemala - $ 356
Paraguay - $ 355
Panama - $ 318
Bolivia - $ 300
Argentina - $ 295
Peru - $ 278
Honduras - $ 252
Colombia - $ 245
Brazil - $ 244
Russia - $ 166
https://subscribe.ru/group/rossiya-today/15440893/
In fact, the notorious "minimum wage" is precisely the "foundation" on which the low level of Russian wages is mounted - namely, the so-called "employers" are guided by the "minimum wage" in relations with labor resources in Russia. Raise the "minimum wage" (which, in fact, is absolutely false, is charged from the ceiling and does not correspond to the needs of an adult) and then employers will have to raise the wages of their workers, otherwise you will not be forced to do it.

[Avior]

For completeness, add Ukraine to the list. $ 171
So that the situation is more clearly manifested ....

[bar]

Raise the "minimum wage"

And employers will go to the "gray" zone with salaries in envelopes

[Revival]

For this there is a tax and law enforcement agencies, to introduce the same measure of responsibility as in the "West", the United States for evasion and non-payment. Then look at the envelopes and gray salaries.
This is so offhand, although the question is more multifaceted

[bar]

That is what is multifaceted. And stupidly raising the minimum wage is not solved. What I tried to convey.

[Vadim237]

There is an official salary in Russia - but it is not yet official, statistics do not take it into account, since it is impossible to calculate it, but it can be safely included in the shadow economy, taxes from this salary are not paid, the figure for the year is 20 trillion rubles - from muhlezh with taxes .

[Foul skeptic]

impossible to count it

20 trillion rubles - from tax fraud

two phrases contradict each other))

[Vadim237]

The number is very conditional, no one will calculate the real one - well, unless only when all the money has become electronic and will pass under one calculation system.

[Foul skeptic]

I certainly agree with you that accounting for funds is now very difficult and erodes the picture.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Is offshore a shadow economy? Why are they taken there if they are honestly earned?

[Vadim237]

Offshore companies need the same thing - to circumvent sanctions in concluding transactions with foreign companies.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

Offshore companies need the same - to circumvent sanctions

you are arde how you position yourself as a businessman, and you carry such a blizzard, the only goal of offshore companies is to avoid taxation, if you conduct transactions in bucks then even through Mars you will not get away from sanctions

[Chaldon48]

I remember Khrushchev with catching up with and overtaking him, at least Latin America, until they fell to the level of African countries.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Monster_Fat

In the internet I found such, here, the data on the minimum wage

the minimum wage is about nothing, a comparison can only be on a set of indicators, the price of food, utilities, transportation, medical education, clothing, etc.

[Lexus]

Rather medicine. It was worth the "interrupt".

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: JD1979

The product of inadequate pay in the education system.

explain

[JD1979]

Quote: Barmaleyka

explain

It is not fashionable to be a rogue, and this is completely normal.
If the workers are not paid normal money, then their work is not very much in demand.

Either underestimated a person or just ....

[Barmaleyka]

what is the relationship with pay in the education system?

[JD1979]

Did you study together?

[Mihail55]

And why, in general, are these very specialties needed? In the country, industry has been ruined in 30 years. We live NOT OUR. A lie on officialdom from all channels ... when will we wake up?

[Vadim237]

We do not have a ditched industry - it is just that the entire industry of Russia is striving for maximum export, since profit from it is many times greater than from sales on the domestic market.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Well already voiced about export! It is more profitable for us to sell oil there for currency than in Russia for rubles!

[Vadim237]

I’m not talking about oil, but about everything else, we don’t export raw materials,

namely

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Tricky statistics! Exports for July 18th, $ 154,2 billion. Mineral products 56%. 12.7% of exports go to China. In the Netherlands, 9.2%. To Germany 7.7%. In the USA 3.2%. Metals and products from it 9,3%. Machinery, equipment, equipment 3,1%. The share of regions in exports is interesting. Moscow exports 44%. Peter 5.6%. Bashkiria 1%.

[Vadim237]

Moscow and the region have a GDP of more than 30 trillion rubles, you think that people come here from all over Russia and the whole world.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Judging by the caravans of buses and trains, it is.

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: Vadim237

Moscow and the region - GDP of more than 30 trillion rubles

GDP is nothing at all

[Barmaleyka]

not because GDP

[Barmaleyka]

what percentage is this in total exports?

[Dmitry Potapov]

Hard quotas for Gaster, the average salary in the country, preferential housing (at least 15 years old), non-manual trade union, trips to workers' children, raising the prestige of the working specialty, Anyone! And then we even have tractor drivers, bulldozers, a crane operator and are no longer Russians.

[carstorm 11]

about how) and the rest, supposedly, do not want this specialty in your opinion?) and I will give an example. I have a good friend. simple driver in RJ. bought an apartment for their preferential program. his car is very good. SUV from the passenger compartment. on credit but he is fine. raised two boys. retired in a few years. says normal will be. simple driver. without higher education. I don’t remember that he would complain about life at least once.

[Dmitry Potapov]

Believe me, with the current domestic policy, the Machinis Rosiyan will soon be a rarity, by the way GA pilots are keenly aware of the lack of local personnel and the growing competition of the Gaster. I’ve been in construction sites in Moscow since 2003, then there was a predominance of Russians, including from the hinterland, and now come to the construction site (Myakinino business center center is 2 capitals from the MO government, one third are Russians, two-thirds are not!

[carstorm 11]

Well, let's ban Gaster. Something I strongly doubt that our workers at construction sites will run in droves. the yards will be revenge or something else.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

the yards will be revenge or something else.

The Russians are just sweeping here, because the Gaster for 12 doesn’t want revenge.

[carstorm 11]

and? sweeping and good. and I have a family yard from Uzbekistan for several years. good people. and before them three years there was eternal dirt.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

and I have a family yard from Uzbekistan for several years. good people.

And how much do they get paid?

[SOVIET UNION 2]

We have the same. Sweep or pre-retirement and retirement age, or alcohol dependent.

[Dmitry Potapov]

I'm not talking about a complete ban. Although the situation is such that migrants are beneficial only to private traders but not to the state, there will be more migrants, they will be meaner and bolder, because in the future there will be no alternative to them except for those who are Gaster, the hour is uneven, they will be in police uniform near the metro in Moscow and check big-eyed documents, but that’s what’s going on.

[Revival]

They will run and revenge at the norms of sn.
I hope you do not propose to remove the migrants and to run to their snp?

[bar]

Believe me, with the current domestic policy, the Machinis Rosiyan will soon be a rarity, by the way GA pilots are keenly aware of the lack of local personnel and the growing competition of the Gaster.

Why are there pilots, we don’t even have our own players, the gopot is worth its weight in gold.

[lukewarm]

Quote: carstorm 11

I don’t remember that he would complain about life at least once.

The fact of the matter is that "working specialty" is too general a name that denotes belonging to some kind of production and does not require higher education. And working specialties are transport and construction, and mining and production. So in all these "national wealth" of ours (they are natural monopolies) such as "GazpOrn", "Rosneft", the Russian Railways you mentioned, workers live sooooo good. The same cannot be said about mechanical engineering. Everything is traditionally bad there. The workers can do something and somehow come out. To reach a more or less worthy salary, a master has to work overtime and go out on Saturday. I am generally silent about the designers (which I am, unfortunately). There is no more hopeless powerless and low-paid caste in our engineering industry. Therefore, without pleasure, I confirm everything voiced by Semin in the video.

[Rostovchanin]

That's right, mechanical engineering is in our deep ... our Rostselmash is moving to a three-day working week, because the subsidies have been canceled and now our harvesters will not take.

[Vadim237]

So Rostselmash will further promote its combines on the world market - and our farmers will not take the same foreign ones, it’s a very expensive technique, especially after the ruble has fallen, and spare parts at a cost like on Mercedes AMG — that for Americans, that for Germans, that for Germans The Japanese.

[Rostovchanin]

Everything would be fine, but the duties are such that our equipment is not competitive. At first, it seemed like they were supported with subsidies after 2014, and now the owner of Rostselmash, Konstantin Babkin, and the opposition ... well, the government closed the shop with subsidies to show who is the boss. As a result, from October 7, the plant leaves the vacation and launches two out of three conveyors, it turns out that 20% of the plant will be out of work. This is the growth of production in mechanical engineering (irony). But there are half a trillion dollars in the box. We sit like a dog in the manger. In addition, Mr. Tkachev, the former Minister of Agriculture and the former Governor of the Kramnodar Territory, lobbied the government for his "candle factory" for the screwdriver assembly of CLAAS agricultural machines in Krasnodar ... also a drop but sensitive for Rostselmash

[Vadim237]

"Chairman of the RF CCI Council for Industrial Development and Competitiveness of the Russian Economy, Konstantin Babkin, said that Rostselmash faced problems after revising the government's support measures in the field of rural mechanization, but optimism remains.
According to him, the assembly line of the enterprise has been idle for the second month, there are almost no people.
“Due to the fact that the government is reviewing support measures in the field of rural mechanization, this year peasants buy less harvesters than last year. Despite a good harvest and good grain prices, ”Babkin explains.
He said that the company has accumulated about 500 unsold harvesters, but in October the assembly should be restored.
At the same time, modernization of some workshops is underway, new equipment is being imported. Babkin expects that the program to support the sale of products will work for another three years, as Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said, but this aspect has not yet been spelled out in the budget "

[SOVIET UNION 2]

But the salons of foreign agricultural machinery still seem to be standing, and news about their closure is not yet visible. At least in the spring still stood.

[carstorm 11]

Well, according to your own words, it’s the case in a particular industry and not everywhere? So you need to specifically deal with it and not spray it? I understand what you mean, and although I myself have not encountered it, I completely admit it. and perhaps changes in specific cases are much more important to decide. Engage specifically in mechanical engineering. to start. and general phrases of Semin well, this is his business.

[lukewarm]

Quote: carstorm 11

business in a specific industry and not everywhere?

I gave an example of the industry where I work. But I think it is everywhere. For this industry is probably the most numerous in terms of jobs. Plant, plant, plant, plant. Bad, if not an oil refinery)))) Let's talk about agriculture? Without editorials on grain exports, but "as is"? I thought that builders make more money. Once I saw statistics on the region by industry. So here we have an Observer 2014 builder, everything is also bad. More or less probably only for those FOR WHOM they work. And it gets worse every year.

[carstorm 11]

I’m not a specialist in agriculture) I have a friend who has opened farming, but everything is developing there so I don’t know the results yet)

[JD1979]

I would not say that the engineer is such a simple profession))) I have a tribal engineer and they gave him education, if not at the technical university level, then close.

[carstorm 11]

so I didn’t say simple) it just came up best from my knowledge as an example)

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

I have a good friend. simple driver in RJ. bought an apartment for their preferential program. his car is very good. SUV from the passenger compartment. on credit but he is fine.

Yeah, but what did those comrades who were optimized fall under, your friend did not say? So let him rejoice that they are not among them.

[carstorm 11]

But did I ask something about this or did I discuss it at all? I gave an example of a specific person without a tower, which in my environment is very small. if he had been fired, I probably wouldn’t write what you think?))) but everything in life is wonderful with him.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

But did I ask something about this or did I discuss it at all?

Well, ask him how much they optimized and fired in Russian Railways. And then you have - I see good, but the rest is not. I see foreign cars, but I do not see the worker on the machine of the 60's with a salary of 20 thousand at point blank range. Or a taxi driver with higher education from the space industry.

[carstorm 11]

you see ... I’m probably saddening you right now, but I have seen so many discussions of optimizations there or changes only at VO. like the people around me are engaged in their life and not solve global problems. and everyone deep in the drum on taxi drivers or machine tools of the 60s. like me actually. there are special heads for this, so let them hurt about this. call it selfishness if you want but my family somehow cares about me and not some taxi driver. which by the way decently earn. so I’m not going to ask this first. we have something to talk about. and secondly, I think it’s violet too.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

which by the way decently earn.

Yeah, more than in the space industry. And it is not surprising that space is rolling in one place.

Quote: carstorm 11

call it selfishness if you want but my family somehow cares

Until you touch, you will be an egoist, such as my hut from the edge.

[carstorm 11]

my hut is not from the edge, but where necessary. my family will not feel better if I throw slogans instead of real affairs. if everything works out for me, it means that my children will grow into specialists who will also benefit. this is the task I am doing. I don’t want to turn into a whiner who in the evening sits under the beer of power. I’ll do something better than that.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

I don’t want to turn into a whiner who in the evening sits under the beer of power.

And by the way, I just came, I was engaged in self-employment with a crowbar and a shovel. And what, do you think, does the experience go to me from this?

[carstorm 11]

Well, everyone decides what to do. if you like it and benefit who I am to discuss it?)

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: carstorm 11

Well, everyone decides what to do. if you like it and benefit who I am to discuss it?)

So do not write about beer on the couch. And I don’t like it, only three enterprises where I worked on machines were closed, and 2 of them were already under your beloved president in the 10 years. Yes, here we have heaps of specialists in the guard wiping his pants, or as I look for part-time jobs. Not enough work at all.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

No. No more than in space. Here recently they have already voiced the average salary for Roscosmos. Almost 400 thousand per person came out according to statistics. Yandex taxi advertised reception of drivers with salaries of up to 120 thousand. In fact, sevens, nines, and dozens go to our taxi. We can either laugh or be surprised. So Yandex taxi gives true information about the income of taxi drivers. Actually, up to 120 thousand. Even if you have gained zero, this is included in the concept of DO. Yandex taxi drivers somehow boycotted about low tariffs, high commissions and, as a result, their low incomes. Nothing achieved. And the boycott was not very massive. You will not really strike when there’s nothing to live on.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: SOVIET UNION 2

Almost 400 thousand per person came out according to statistics.

Yeah, a million to the boss, 30 thousand locksmith, who hammer the sensors with a hammer.

[lukewarm]

Quote: SOVIET UNION 2

So Yandex taxi gives true information about the income of taxi drivers. Really up to 120 thousand

I worked in Yandex taxi. Rybinsk, Yaroslavl region. There were no such salaries even close. A lot of jambs, in general, covered up. Then they started to type again, not only for personal cars, but also for rental cars. It was relatively good the first time after opening, when they paid extra for unprofitable orders. And "branded" (pasted over) even something like a salary was paid. Then it ended and everyone fled from them

[SOVIET UNION 2]

So I'm talking about that. Salary up to this amount means any salary from zero to the indicated amount. But the people are led to this. If the salary is from such an amount, then from this. Not everyone understands this difference. Who understands, they immediately understand what the catch is. We were neighing at work on this announcement. Therefore, salary-up ads, you can safely discard scam.

[lukewarm]

Something like this. I wonder who threw a minus? Out of principle? The post is generally neutral, the concrete moment is divorced.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

Yes, here it seems constantly one or two minus many. if not all comments go. Maybe the moderators slow down the rating.

[Vadim237]

What is going to optimize on the rolling stock in Russian Railways - freight traffic is increasing. And without drivers, Russia will not have robotic diesel locomotives and electric locomotives for a long time to come.

[Grandfather]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

And then we even have tractor drivers, bulldozers, a crane operator and are no longer Russians.

[Observer2014]

I support your photo. So it is. I, as a working person, support you. In this photo, the whole essence of the attitude to the own people of the current authorities. We have been driven into poverty by these Gaster workers. There are no jobs for Russian builders. NO! Everywhere there are only strangers. There is deception all around. There is absolutely no work with decent pay. Working specialties are not needed by this government at all. I am a builder myself. It is useless to object to regular trolls. I know that I write firsthand.

[AU Ivanov.]

And you yourself will go to the construction site to work? Or sweep yards? I personally do not, and my children will not go either. Even for the money.

[Observer2014]

I’m at a construction site and working. Is it bad or embarrassing?

[AU Ivanov.]

In young people, manual labor is not quoted. Office, at worst - a control panel. In general, building is a noble profession. Jesus himself was a carpenter, and therefore a builder.

[VeteranVSSSR]

Ivanov, as they say in you, in Russia, do not renounce a prison and a bag.

[lukewarm]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Or sweep yards? I personally do not, and my children will not go either. Even for the money.

From the bag and from the prison, like a gritsa in Russia .... We jump and jump over a piece of bread and work.

[rocket757]

Worthy of work - worthy of life! Here it is all hyperbole and parabola!
Not with bread alone ...

[Chief Engineer]

Yes, it’s true, I sometimes have to persuade the ved.engineers not to leave, I promise premium increases and all that, but it's still a penny. How to explain to young professionals why the administrator in the beauty salon gets three times as much.

[Vadim237]

Probably because they do not have such costs as yours.

[Campanella]

People do not need a gas station at all. How many Americans there measured 15 million people?

[Vadim237]

Yes, do not care what they measured out there - go idols? And the gas station in someone's head.

[kursk87]

Modern capitalism is the enrichment of some at the expense of others. There can be no social equality in the conditions of the capitalist system. In such a system, you cannot be sure about tomorrow

[AU Ivanov.]

Modern capitalism is just when the rich share (or are forced to share) with the poor, as in Western Europe. And you described wild capitalism. Which is ours.

[Foul skeptic]

Modern capitalism is just when the rich share (or are forced to share) with the poor, as in Western Europe.

In the same place, conditions were conceived and implemented that shared with the poor (with their voluntary desire) return everything back to the rich, also deciding the underlying issue with the sales market. Like it or not, but all over the world, 10% of the richest are increasing their capital, while the rest are decreasing. It’s just not at such a galloping pace as is happening here.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

And how to make manual from wild? Who is training?

[AU Ivanov.]

In some countries, trade unions crumbled business, in some ruling parties of a social democratic kind.

[SOVIET UNION 2]

And somewhere they eliminated the union and party leaders. In my opinion, thanks to the existence of the USSR, they made concessions to the workers. Today the USSR is not and there is an attack on the social rights of citizens.

[Strashila]

"Working specialties in Russia today are not in vogue," but without them, stop the progress and development of the country.

[yehat]

Quote: Corn

And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers.

universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.
I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

another pearl from a person who knows nothing at all, but has the audacity to say
What, from YouTube and TV burned out? Well, sit on the toilet and pass, why post these excrement everywhere?

[AU Ivanov.]

Your opponent is absolutely right: a scoop and a scoop in Africa.

[yehat]

scoop where you yourself make a scoop.
This is not a system, not a state - it is you yourself. If you have a scoop in your head, you have a scoop everywhere.
Remember how it really was. In the USSR there was a problem with normal toilets, but not everywhere - when people stopped seeing around the scoop, the problem was solved.
In the USSR there were entire layers of people, whose whole environment they call a scoop means to cruelly insult.
And finally, the "scoop", as an opportunity, appeared twice - during the NEP and during Khrushchev's liberal counter-revolution. This is not a property of socialism or the country of soviets or communism, this is nonsense introduced.

[carstorm 11]

so you apply your own advice to yourself) stop seeing the negative one) it’s not everywhere) but about the toilets ... the problem of their stink was not solved in your head no matter how hard you try.

[yehat]

where did you see the advice?
in my opinion, you are incurable, I do not see any benefit from advice to you.

[carstorm 11]

I'm ordinary) why should I treat me for something?))) I live honestly paying taxes. I work) and if I do not agree with you this does not mean that I am wrong) and vice versa of course) rudeness you know is such a mutual thing.

[Vadim237]

All this is empty - we drove 30 years ago, people became different and everything changed.

[yehat]

only the possibilities of globalization, integration and the level of automation have changed
the rest is all left and many theses from Marx’s capital are very relevant even now.

[carstorm 11]

so it's wonderful) you have something to read at home) everyone has their own home reading. and the relevance of the fact that for a hundred years it still couldn’t take root, I'm sorry nonsense.

[Vadim237]

And never take root.

[yehat]

why could not take root? all transnational corporations live strictly according to Marx!
That count their bible how to do business.

[Engineer]

The "non-prestige" of blue-collar jobs is a direct consequence of their lack of competitiveness in the general labor market. Who needs a 50 year old welder? If 30-year-olds cook better, their hands do not tremble, vision is normal, they can cook for at least an hour in an uncomfortable position. The best turners and millers in my memory are 30-40 years old. After burnout comes, there is hack-work, production rates fall, age takes its toll. Do young people need this to go there?
Second point. The so-called "working" environment. Continuous whining - "nothing will work out", "bosses are thieves and stupid people", "the fish goes out from the head." Sound familiar? And if the only hibernator at the plant, who is highly qualified by the way, goes into a binge for a week in the midst of work on a strategic order, what is it?
I read very good material. Young guys-startups, having won prestigious competitions and received very good investments, create their own business. There are a lot of great ideas in my head, strategies for staff motivation are written. And now, bang, disappointment, the workers are doing everything just out of hand. Without a kick and a mate, nothing. They sense weakness, intelligence, and get up. As a result, a "soviet" technical department was hired to restore order by anti-democratic methods. Result - everything is ok. The company of norms, the motivation has gone. Only the hard workers have a stick, and the designer has a carrot. These are the realities.
It turns out a vicious circle - working environment -> bestial attitude -> bestial conditions -> working environment. What is the first thing I don’t know and don’t want to know.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Engineer

Who needs an 50 year old welder? If the 30-year-olds cook better, their hands don’t tremble, the eyesight of the norms can cook for an hour in an uncomfortable position. The best turners and milling machines in my memory are 30-40 years. After burnout occurs, there is a hack, production standards fall, age takes its toll. Is youth necessary to go there?

And you ask the government why they raise their pension.

Quote: Engineer

And if the only bending machine at the factory, highly qualified by the way, goes into a bout for a week at the height of work on a strategic order, what is it?

And if he gets sick, gets into an accident, will they kill him unexpectedly? What kind of policy is this, not to suggest a replacement? Here you have the whole essence of your defective management.

[Engineer]

So we have the policy of all production - to give to the side. No in Russia, then to China.
I’ll even say more, in our office even prototyping will soon be done in Taiwan. Faster, cheaper, more predictable.
I shared your point of view until I became a manager myself. I have work for only one binder. Very tightly. Looking for another in reserve? It’s easier for management to not have a binder at all if I find a stable counterparty. Or translate the existing part-time to close the holes.
Cannibalism, you say? It is the most, in its purest form. These are only realities, social evolution, and I can’t change anything.
People do not want to understand in any way that it is less and less profitable to maintain industrial production. IT, services, buy-and-sell everything has either higher margins or much less troublesome.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: Engineer

I have work for only one binder.

To teach a person to be a gibber - just spit. If you have absolutely no more workers, get up at the machine yourself for his salary. And I don’t need to talk about any difficulties there, because I worked on the bending machine.

Quote: Engineer

People do not want to understand in any way that maintaining industrial production is less and less profitable.

Yeah, it’s profitable in China, but not ours. Or maybe something needs to be changed at the conservatory?

[Engineer]

Yeah, it’s profitable in China, but not ours. Or maybe something needs to be changed at the conservatory?

Everyone needs to be changed. My opinion. And the government and managers and hard workers. Only it will not be Russia

[lukewarm]

I read it - I didn't want to live completely. I'll go down to the shop. I will speak with the turners "for the prestige of working specialties." As for changing everyone, this is the very same crisis when "the top ... the bottom ..." You know yourself. A revolutionary situation ... There is one desire - to jump around the partners, so that everyone will be covered with an answer and finish this bedlam at once. Sorry, it hurt.

[Campanella]

Great solution))) For whom? On the Varangians? My opinion is that the upper echelon is quite a filthy broom and everything will work out. Cadres decide everything, but you look at the government and you understand this is not cadres, but opportunists.

[Engineer]

Unfortunately, it will not work out.

Cadres decide everything

Undoubtedly, only the "effective" ones you hate do not grow on trees. They left our environment. I looked at the transformation. Was like a norm of people. He became a deputy from the United Russia and a manager. And it went, the further the worse.
You can dream about Stalin as much as you like, but he will not be. Till all we will not change nothing will change.

[Campanella]

The point is not effective, but in the tasks that the chief commander sets. In Tulun, he could not solve the issue of paying compensation to the victims in 2 of his trips. Such efficiency that the horror takes.
Corporate-clan management will not bring to good, at least exchange. Judicial and law enforcement, the legislative branch that draws where they will say there and turn. There is no desire in power that either to change, they are sure of the correctness of the chosen path.

[Ross xnumx]

You feel a certain detachment not only from the welded work, but also from the production process itself - therefore, in phrases:

Quote: Engineer

Who needs a 50 year old welder?

And who needs a 70-year-old deputy of the State Duma who has not earned a single labor ruble? Who needs a 76-year-old chairman of the Constitutional Court who can just fall asleep (die) at a meeting? Who needs an elderly woman of incomprehensible merit (known in a narrow circle chosen by the concepts of people) in the Federation Council, if the development of this Federation occurs in the most perverse way?

Quote: Engineer

Is youth necessary to go there?

Young people are not interested in daily bickering with their bosses, about providing the employee with protective equipment, observing sanitary and hygienic standards at the workplace and at work, organizing the planning of the work process. Young people do not want to dive into shit every day, because it is passed off as "homeland" ...

Quote: Engineer

The company of norms, the motivation has gone. Only to hard workers a whip, and to gingerbread men. These are the realities.

There are a number of factories where the worker simply does not need to be rushed. Incentives? Production standards and labor discipline in compliance with the collective agreement. And in Russia a priori it is impossible to have a large working class. And you need to forget about large enterprises. For the workers can and demand when there are many of them, when they are together. And what kind of "manager" who is not familiar with production processes needs it?
The realities are only one:
AUTHORITIES IN THE CAPITALIST STATE IS AFRAID OF THE WORKER ONLY BECAUSE HE (LOST IN SALARY, HOUSING, PROPERTY) MAY BECOME TURNED IN HER Tombstone.

[Engineer]

You feel a certain detachment not only from the welded work, but also from the production process itself.

Let's get it short, ok?
For good, you do not argue with what I have stated. Just trying to transfer the problem to a higher level. On the one hand, this is pointless, because we do not affect this level in any way. On the other hand, I want to focus on the organizational and technical side of things, without politics. It is more interesting to me

[Vadim237]

"Who needs a 50 year old welder?" Imagine you need - it's true an argon welder.

[Engineer]

I can only be truly happy for you. But you yourself most likely understand that this case is more likely an exception.

[Vadim237]

That's why after 40 it’s better to take an IP and do welding, repair, manufacturing and other things yourself.

[evgenyfrasov]

Unfortunately, this is true. I am an installer. I wander on shifts and not from a good life. At home, in the field, wages are low. Maintaining a family with children is very difficult. Moreover, earnings do not grow, or even fall. And the prices are galloping. Many, in an effort to raise their children, lose their families. The attitude of the management of firms towards us, hard workers, is frankly bestial. Because of this, many do their job on falling off. After the 10th year I did not meet any trained specialists. They’re typing on an ad, if only there are crusts, the authenticity of which no one checks. If only there were. This is almost everywhere, with rare exceptions. I have been working since 88th year. Scary for the future.

[Vadim237]

Do not worry, not everyone is bad, but not everyone is fine.

[Van 16]

And why would they be in fashion? The work is hard, they pay little.

[Ross xnumx]

Working specialties in Russia are not in fashion today

And what fashion can there be for a beggarly existence?
Yesterday I accompanied my mother (84 years old) to the clinic. Instead of three ophthalmologists, one works - two died (according to the visitor). It's kind of creepy. During my entire stay, I saw only one person from the clinic staff under 30 years old. When a nurse of late retirement age "hobbled" by (I beg your pardon for the verb), the first thought was - just to get it ... And these are not workers ... These are specialists who are called upon to protect our (population) health.
I'm not talking about that Putin’s bike about creating 25 highly qualified jobs, because at the presentation of the gas pipe coating it was stated that this production gave 000 jobs (maybe not all 000 have a highly qualified profile). It is necessary to calculate how many such enterprises need to be put into operation for the remaining 300 days of reign ...
Only 69 enterprises a day !!!

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: ROSS 42

Yesterday I accompanied my mother (84 of the year) to the clinic. Instead of three ophthalmologists, one works - two died (according to the visitor).

My weeks and a half ago they should have been discharged, after an operation on the eyes, and there still, it only got worse.

Quote: ROSS 42

When a nurse of a late retirement age "hobbled" by (I beg your pardon for the verb), the first thought was - just to get it.

We have one such "got". To the psychiatric hospital. She hit the man with an ax on the head to death.

[lukewarm]

Quote: ROSS 42

Only 69 enterprises a day !!!

The "guarantor" will be tortured to cut the ribbons. HE IS EVERYWHERE!

[Mihail55]

Quote: Engineer

The best turners and milling machines in my memory - 30-40 years. After burnout occurs, there is a hack, production standards fall, age takes its toll. Is youth necessary to go there?

You shouldn't be so. After 40 years, the most is in professional skill! The fact that the young will study and comprehend the experienced will already do with half a kick. Everything is already stuck in his bedside table, each squiggle has its own gadget. And in general, in mechanical engineering, where I still work, there is a kind of symbiosis of a worker and an engineer. Often the worker himself is simply obliged to show intellectual quickness ... to write a program ... to come up with a tool ... to design a device, etc. And most importantly, a very competent engineer simply, for his own benefit, must work with his hands. So, I went through it ... was both that and that ... and I do not regret it. I can both fulfill and teach an inexperienced worker in my business. Unfortunately, current concepts do not imply the reproduction of literate workers. Why, it is still on sale! According to Gref, we have a lot of EXTRA people ... so we will only get by with the "chosen ones" ...

[Engineer]

Well, since you're in the topic, then honestly, which of the 40+ CNC nicknames? Sometimes there are of course, but usually so-so. At best, he only heard about CAM programs.
The best are 26-33 years old. Everything is interesting, everything is new. All with higher education. The real elite. The POwer Mill themselves download, grunt themselves. Before work, they will find a guide on the Internet, they will specify cutting modes. It’s necessary caprolon, fiberglass or something else relatively exotic, they will find on YouTube. If in English, I was asked to translate key points. Themselves with the catalog to the technologists come up - poke their nose into the desired cutter. Yes, and they do not need a technologist. Only this is no longer the familiar working class.
50-year-olds are stretching themselves, while they say that they need a mandrel or something else. Young growth is already at work. I broke the cutter, ruined two blanks, but in 80% of cases I got it.
Old men sit on carousel, grinding, etc. Specialized, narrow areas

[Monster_Fat]

The POwer Mill themselves download, grunt themselves. Before work, they will find a guide on the Internet, they will specify cutting modes. It’s necessary caprolon, fiberglass or something else relatively exotic, they will find on YouTube. If in English, I was asked to translate key points. Themselves with the catalog to the technologists come up - poke their nose into the desired cutter. Yes, and they do not need a technologist.

It's funny. An enterprise is described where there is no process control at all (all are torn apart (the turner runs to the technologist, and not vice versa), the turners are not provided with technological maps and programs (they themselves "quack" what they need), IT engineers do not reprogram the machines and do not follow software updates, etc. (on Youtube who needs to look for themselves, how and what ), etc. And by the way, a criminal offense is committed there - "quacking" of legal software and its illegal use in production. This is a typical Russian "production" with its typical feature - the lack of control of technological processes (thanks to "successful managers"), which is "corrected" by the "ultra-wide" profile of the working personnel, rush jobs, overvoltage in the working process, etc., and which is supplied here, judging all over, "a successful maneuver" as an "example". Of course, he has 50-year-old turners who remember what the order was and how everything was organized at the "Soviet enterprises" and demand the same order and the same organization now, will not be quoted - he needs a turner- "and a Swiss and a reaper and a dude-player "-" a specialist "over a broad profile" (and even a hacker), so that a person would be replaced by a minimum of 3 (technologist, software engineer, site manager, etc.) and would sit on a low salary , without demanding anything from the "employer" - naturally, these are difficult to find. "West" with its emphasis on "narrow specialization" rests and nervously smokes on the sidelines ...

[Engineer]

That is how the modern Russian enterprise is described. Yes, and with growth diseases.
In conditions when all investments in equipment are ahead of the availability of available specialists. Therefore, the IT engineer can not cope, and the second is not and never will be.
There is a fact - youth is doing more. Only these young people are advanced and want to work their own way. And leadership forgives them because they working and give the result right now. And they don’t whine how bad everything is. Either such youth or none, there are no others, because there is no interest in this topic.
And the second fact is that there will be no debugged "Soviet" system. Why? separate topic
About legal software, again a separate song, everyone survives as best he can.
That's an example. Not positive, not negative, but 100% real. Someone funny

[Vadim237]

"This is how a modern Russian enterprise is described" - Far from being modern.

[Engineer]

four years old, young isho)

[Engineer]

he needs a turner - "and a Swiss and a reaper and a dude - a gamer" - a "super-wide specialist" (and even a hacker) to replace a person with a minimum of 3 (technologist, software engineer, site manager, etc. .) and would sit on a low salary, not demanding anything from the "employer" - naturally, such people are hard to find.

Two guys of "general profile" about whom we are talking less than 100 thousand on hand do not receive. They also have their own system of allowances. Maybe 150 thousand a month. The founders did not like this very much at first, but the techdir lay down with bones.

[Monster_Fat]

And why should he not "go to bed" if these two people not only practically replace several people from the technological process, but also do part of the work of this so-called "technical director" on organizing and managing the production process and setting up and use of equipment .... and this, with the so-called "high salary", which actually corresponds to the salary of an "ice cream man in Brownsville, TX" ....

[Engineer]

and this, with the so-called "high salary", which actually corresponds to the salary of an "ice cream man in Brownsville, Texas"

Almost all of our salaries are understated. Especially in the industrial field. There is generally an unspoken salary agreement between employers. We monitor HH, we look at the average sentence and do not assign it above it. And the average is formed by the same goons who do not want to motivate employees. This is a well-known fact.
but those two get 2-3 times higher than their colleagues. And they came green from Fablab
And the technical director, among other things, carried out certification of the enterprise for quality in the ISO system and found several important orders. But I foresee that there will be grumbling here, again "people are not doing their own thing"

[Alexander Ra]

The best are 26-33 years old. ... real elite

You have some unhealthy spell and a narrow perception - to whom over 40 - those worthless ballast. If you do not understand the prices of elders, then you haven’t been involved in complex and serious ones. Continuity is empty for you, have not grown to this scale. Emphasize 26-33-year-olds, a place with 100-150 tr, so there are 2-3 million per day with older. This is actually a systemic problem at the national level - deindustrialization is artificially supported with the lowering of education, with the abolition of working professions, with the difficulty of finding work not only for the older but also for the young. Admiration for the salaries of your "best" can be fleeting.
“… There will not be a factual, well-functioning“ Soviet ”system”… “young people are advanced and want to work in their own way”… “everyone survives as best he can” - in your views one can feel the pleasure of being in “muddy water”. There are periods when mass antisocial behavior is beneficial, but this cannot last long, system debugging will be required. And by the way, in our conditions, not 26-year-olds will be engaged in debugging.

[Engineer]

You absolutely did not understand my idea.
40+ may be good workers, but as they engage in classic jobs, they begin to experience the age of decline.

This is actually a systemic problem at the national level - deindustrialization is artificially supported with the lowering of education, with the abolition of working professions, with the difficulty of finding work not only for the older but also for the young.

I do not know artificially or naturally. My opinion is to be a welder, locksmith, turner, etc. ungrateful, underpaid and unpromising work. Being an engineer in industry is also so-so fun, if you have a choice, then you do not need to choose it in any case. That's all.

[Vadim237]

"40+ may be good workers, but as those in classic jobs, they are starting to experience a recession age." That's why you need to take such an individual entrepreneur - offer services yourself, work for a company or firm - it will be easier for her with such, since the worker himself will pay all taxes.

[Engineer]

SAM was an SP for two years. There are pros and cons. THEN thickly empty.
An acquaintance in the status of an individual entrepreneur with his son decorated a loft-style bar. For three months of shock work they took a million. The interior designer took 120 thousand for the selection of decor and visualization of this bar in four thinned out. The men were happy, rested and that's it, there are no big orders yet. And the designer did the "hack" during working hours, which she was paid separately. That's it.
Well, people with such a psychology: "looked after customers, gained connections, earned a reputation, now you can be an individual entrepreneur" is a minority.

[bar]

our country is currently experiencing an acute shortage of skilled workers

So I would not be so categorical. Qualified workers need appropriate jobs in their respective enterprises. And where do we have these enterprises? For example, how many have opened over the past 10 years? And how many of them were closed only in our region, I know ...

[Vadim237]

According to my estimates, about 20000 different and different - in all spheres of the CX industry and other things.

[bar]

I'm not talking about all sorts of different ones, but about those that require precisely skilled workers and specialists. For example, how many enterprises out of these 20000 different ones require CNC machine operators, gear cutters, borers, instrumentation and automation specialists, adjusters and repairmen of automatic lines?

[Vadim237]

Look for such extensive information on the Internet throughout Russia.

[ultra]

Quote: Sunflower

At the Red Hammer plant, where I worked, in

Grozny "Red Hammer"?

[d.olegov44]

Quote from Uncle Lee

Well done Semin! Already the second burning question was highlighted in VO!

Why did "Good Semin" take his wife to the United States and his child is an American citizen by birthright? Doesn't Mr. Semin want to first return his family from the United States to Russia, and only then teach us patriotism and socialist values?

[Vadim237]

And why is the Evo family in the United States so good.

[nikvic46]

Previously, graduates of the School. Bauman were valued for their "weight in gold". I was alarmed by one detail. Much attention to physical culture. I have fears that in the future, according to a simplified scheme, athletes will be admitted to this educational institution. Previously, they were admitted to humanitarian universities.

[lukewarm]

Quote: nikvic46

Great attention to physical education. I have concerns

Inattentively listened. Well physo as such. There were LECTURES on FIZO !!!!! Exactly for rickety nerds. What athletes are there!