Working specialties in Russia are not in fashion today

It is no secret today that our country is currently experiencing an acute shortage of skilled workers. Graduates of Russian schools dream of being managers, lawyers, just not to stand at the machine, not to engage in real production.




Despite the fact that today, in the field of working specialties, there is an increase in salaries, working professions are still not in vogue among young people.

But in the Soviet period, a person of a working specialty enjoyed considerable respect, he had decent wages, benefits, he was provided with housing, social guarantees, and films and documentaries were shot about him. Today's “documentary”, along with numerous “social” talk shows, is more and more about extramarital children of famous actors with paternity testing, about sharing property and other family and near-family “showdowns”.

Does modern Russia really need talented engineers? Why does our country need only consumers, service personnel, and not inventors and creators? Why are working specialties not so popular among school graduates today? What are the possible reasons for the shortage of workers in the Russian market? How can the imperfection of the educational system affect the lack of qualified specialists? A student of MSTU im. Bauman in the next letter of the national project of Konstantin Semin “Letters. Last call".

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  1. Egoza 2 October 2019 09: 09 New
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    And it was not necessary to destroy the Soviet system of education! And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers. Yes, and TV tried - that it was not a series, then a rich Pinocchio, passionate love with a simpleton, and now she has a prosperous life. I'm not talking about everyday Malakhov! Who is suffering? Over prostitutes, drug addicts, alcoholics, ah, I'm sorry "stars." How they are treated and healed! And they become rich again. At least one show about the workers! And netuti - no scandals, no pregnancies and blacks - and that people work and thanks to them the country lives ... and who needs it!
    1. Corn 2 October 2019 09: 33 New
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      And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers.
      universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
      Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.
      I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.
      1. Grandfather 2 October 2019 09: 39 New
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        Quote: Corn
        Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.

      2. Lexus 2 October 2019 09: 57 New
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        paradise for degenerate drunkards

        It is in modern Russia that one of them even managed to be noted as president, then he was "tired".
        1. Corn 2 October 2019 10: 03 New
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          If the events for you 20 years ago are “modern Russia”, then I have bad news for you.
          1. Lexus 2 October 2019 10: 23 New
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            All clear. The one-day generation. I ate, pos .. @ l, slept - life is "beautiful"!
      3. Graz 2 October 2019 10: 06 New
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        you write excuse nonsense, skilled labor should be paid so that people can live, and not eke out a miserable existence, if a person gets a penny, then he will work, does not seek to improve in the profession, about new high-tech equipment where workers are not needed and goes let’s say after six months of service, these are dreams and fairy tales, because as the current owner doesn’t go for such expenses, he will squeeze out all available equipment and patch it up, because the last presses, if they pay a penny, then buy high tech will never remember that
        1. Monster_Fat 2 October 2019 11: 31 New
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          labor should be paid so that people can live, and not eke out a miserable existence ....

          Oh, it is. I was with my brother in St. Petersburg, I look at the door in his staircase ajar (propped up with a piece of wood). At the exit, the Tajik is tired, he “makes up patterns” with a dirty rag on the floor, like “washing the floors” - I told him: “You should at least wash the rag and replace the water in the bucket, there’s only dirt ....” And he answered (not ceasing to cuddle with a rag): "How I get paid, so I work ... Say thank you that even so, I clean it .... I don’t like it, take it yourself and clean it ...."
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 02 New
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            Hence the conclusion - ours finally got lazy and became indifferent.
            1. Revival 2 October 2019 14: 24 New
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              Cheap, that's angry.
              Because they pay a penny then they can’t ask for quality.
              That's when they will pay normally, not a lot, but so that they have enough for a normal life, then they will ask for leverage and the right.
              And it’s more like lamentations “the slave went lazy, not conscious” ...
            2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 03 New
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              Hence the conclusion, capitalism is to blame! Does not give an incentive to work! wassat
              1. lukewarm 3 October 2019 13: 00 New
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                Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                Does not give an incentive to work!

                There is always a problem with this. Not a supporter of capitalism, rather his victim, but ... In the Soviet Socialist Republic, too, it was unimportant with motivation. Those who really wanted money, “grabbers”, coven, left “to the north”. Merchant fleet - generally WOW ... But the rest ... So-so. Work a little, make a little.
                1. Maki Avellevich 5 October 2019 07: 41 New
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                  Quote: unwillingly
                  So-so. Work a little, make a little.

                  was the case.
                  like Zhvanetsky - who guards what he has (not an exact quote)
          2. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 18 New
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            Quote: Monster_Fat
            Say thank you that even so, I clean it .... I do not like it, take it yourself and clean it ....

            In truth, for the sake of it, it always infuriates me, I don’t like the salary, quit, signed up for SPECIFIC money for a SPECIFIC work, kindly do it in good faith
            1. nikvic46 3 October 2019 07: 11 New
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              Vladimir The fact of the matter is that it is extremely rare for us to conclude contracts, and the responsibilities of not only the executor, but also the employer should be spelled out in them.
              1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 22 New
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                and without a contract, if you took on a specific job at a specific price, and then you start to twirl your tail?
                must something be inside the person?
              2. Maki Avellevich 5 October 2019 07: 49 New
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                Quote: nikvic46
                Vladimir The fact of the matter is that it is extremely rare for us to conclude contracts, and the responsibilities of not only the executor, but also the employer should be spelled out in them.

                the oral contract is the same as the written one.
                have you agreed? do it. does not fit one of the parties parted.
      4. AU Ivanov. 2 October 2019 10: 11 New
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        In the USSR, an engineer earned less than a worker. It is not normal. And so - you are absolutely right: equality in poverty.
        1. VeteranVSSSR 2 October 2019 21: 09 New
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          There are different engineers. A good specialist always got well.
          1. Maki Avellevich 5 October 2019 07: 42 New
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            Quote: VeteranVSSSR
            There are different engineers. A good specialist always got well.

            young engineer received 120r. a good start
            1. VeteranVSSSR 6 October 2019 11: 00 New
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              120: 0,14 = 857 loaves of bread, or
              120: 1,9 = 63 kg of beef (per bone), or
              120: 0,3 = 400 packs of cigarettes like ,, Java / Pegasus: 10 = 40 blocks !!!!
              The salary is 120+ premium, and this is at least 40% + category + quarterly ... and do not cry.
              Just for comparison, you had to live at that time ....
              1. Cat man null 6 October 2019 11: 29 New
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                Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                The salary of 120 + is premium, and this is not less than 40% + category + quarterly ..

                Ummm ... where does the young specialist get a category from? And about 40% of premiums - straighten and do not bend anymore ... and quarterly - not always and not at all happened, if request

                With these 120 also taxes were paid - income, and "on eggs". In the dry residue on hands - 98. So what's up with kilos of beef from bones?

                Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                for comparison, you had to live at that time ....

                I'm the 62 of the year, my friend. I found both this and that time. Would you like to argue? Toda you will need more powerful arguments ... Buddy yes
                1. VeteranVSSSR 6 October 2019 11: 42 New
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                  So school finished in 79/80 ...
                  Salary is bare money, without progression / bonus, which was paid according to the results of the previous month without fail.
                  Argument -1976 on worked on the software ,, Horizon '' was just like that
                  .
                  And about beef 120: 3.3 = 36 kg of beef (tenderloin) -argumet?
                  The 59g / p argument itself?
                  1. Cat man null 6 October 2019 11: 58 New
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                    Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                    So school finished in 79

                    That's right.

                    Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                    Salary is bare money, without progression / bonus, which was paid according to the results of the previous month without fail

                    What is the salary - I am in the know. As well as the fact that the salary was designated "before taxes." What is now called gross yes

                    And as for the progression and other gingerbread cookies - it wasn’t everywhere, far from everywhere ... I have it in the Ministry of General Engineering, as an example - this was not for engineers.

                    Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                    argument? argument? argument?

                    For you - probably yes. In the general case, no.
              2. Maki Avellevich 6 October 2019 17: 54 New
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                Quote: VeteranVSSSR
                120: 0,14 = 857 loaves of bread, or
                120: 1,9 = 63 kg of beef (per bone), or
                120: 0,3 = 400 packs of cigarettes like ,, Java / Pegasus: 10 = 40 blocks !!!!
                The salary is 120+ premium, and this is at least 40% + category + quarterly ... and do not cry.
                Just for comparison, you had to live at that time ....

                He lived at that time. In the late 80s, I remember the choice was this - birch sap in three liter jars or extra salt.
                Sometimes a "harsh set"
                And you say beef at 1,9.
      5. lukewarm 2 October 2019 10: 13 New
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        On Comte there is such an author, Blonde Blonde. Not familiar with creativity?
      6. Nyrobsky 2 October 2019 10: 49 New
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        Quote: Corn
        And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers.
        universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
        Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries. I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.
        Eka poked you. The issue is not to achieve universal "impoverished equality", but that hard workers should have decent pay and respect for them for the work that they do. If managers or designers don’t go to work within a month, the hard worker will survive it, but if electricians and plumbers get to work, the designers and managers, together with deputies and senators, will drown in shit in pitch darkness.
        1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 04 New
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          We now have many of those who pay a lot - but they will work only from a kick.
          1. Revival 2 October 2019 14: 26 New
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            First try to pay a lot, try, and then ask
            1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 29 New
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              Already paid and I’m not alone - enough, those who work normally pay normally.
              1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 20: 56 New
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                Quote: Vadim237
                so we pay normally.

                specifically WHERE PAY?
                1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 01 New
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                  Moscow, Volgograd region. If the guys succeed, then in the Astrakhan region we will begin to pay.
                  1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 22: 01 New
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                    do not play the fool, you still write the planet earth, specifically what kind of production and what salaries
                    1. Vadim237 3 October 2019 01: 06 New
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                      Custom-made parts, sliding bearings, CNC operator 140000 - in Moscow, a Mercedes BMW service is a mechanic from 100000 to 200000.
                      1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 23 New
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                        that is, you contradict yourself, yet a worker can get a decent salary without working for himself
          2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 09 New
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            Is this about our talented managers? recourse
          3. nikvic46 3 October 2019 07: 15 New
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            Vadim. I completely agree with you. It was the same before. But now there are many who consider work as punishment. Or they say, "Work at the factory? It's bad for me."
        2. VeteranVSSSR 2 October 2019 21: 11 New
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          Sorry, Narobsky, but hard workers cut down the forest ...
          1. Nyrobsky 2 October 2019 21: 35 New
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            Quote: VeteranVSSSR
            Sorry, Narobsky, but hard workers cut down the forest ...

            Already practically do not knock. Logging fell into history 15 years ago, along with the elimination of forest administrations and villages where the colonies stood. Now a little pinch. So - "the forest fell, rolled balancers" is already a mythology.
      7. tihonmarine 2 October 2019 10: 54 New
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        Quote: Corn
        I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

        You don’t need to chop everyone on the head with a saber, this is the Ukrainian version. A man lives in his homeland of Russia, and how does your language turn to tell him so. It highlights the flaws, but we are not deaf and dumb as if it were a square. (Do not forget that tomorrow they can tell you this as well) Regards and sorry, that’s harsh.
      8. sunzhenets 2 October 2019 10: 55 New
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        Quote: Corn
        universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
        Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.
        I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

        1. Degenerative drunkards in the USSR were treated forcibly. Unlike the Russian Federation.
        2. I do not know where you got the “unmotivated labor”. At the Red Hammer factory, where I worked, all the workers were perfectly motivated by bonuses. If the master said that it was necessary to leave on Saturday, they left without problems.
        3. Now there is no shortage of high-quality industrial equipment ... There is no industry either.
        In the city where I live, during the times of the USSR, they worked: a fish factory and a fish factory, PMK, a building materials factory, a cooperage factory, a shipyard, a bakery, and a brewery. Now only the brewery remains. Around there are some shopping centers and signs "Rent".
        4. Only faithful adherents of EP should live in Russia? Edros' dream - there were Putin with Medvedev, the State Duma and SovFed, Kadyrov, Gazprom and the pipe.
        We like Russia - we don’t like what they do to it.
        1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 09 New
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          3. "Now there is no shortage of high-quality industrial equipment ..." "There is no industry either." And who do we have then: tanks, aircraft, rockets, reactors, rocket engines, tractors, trucks, jet and rocket engines, alloys, chemical components and much more - air?
          1. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 18 New
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            And on whose equipment is all this going? Thanks to the foreigners? The same GAZ and KAMAZ have foreign components. Recently, there was an article on industrial robots at VO. Russian robots were not there. And in terms of import-export, the lion's share of exports is not occupied by machinery and equipment. But commodity exports dominate.
            1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 06 New
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              Each year, these components are localized in Russia - it is expensive and long to carry from abroad. And the equipment in Russia also localizes the same DMG plant in Ulyanovsk. STAN already produces its own, like other companies, there are those that upgrade the old ones, changing the drive of the center and make it from ordinary CNC. “Recently, there was an article on industrial robots at VO. There were no Russian robots there.” Actually they were - you just forgot.
          2. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 47 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            tractor

            here at least kill live on the earth of the RUSSIAN tractor did not see a single
            1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 20: 57 New
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              set the minus well, name the place where you saw the RUSSIAN tractor
              1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 24 New
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                Kirovets K 744, K 9000 to choose a modification with YaMZshnym motors or Daimler - the choice of the client.
                And also In 1997, the company "Agrotechmash" was established which specialized in the supply of equipment "Kirovets" and spare parts for it. Soon, the company became the general sales company of the St. Petersburg Tractor Plant and set about forming an extensive dealer network. In addition, the “Agrotechmash” company was entrusted with the functions of popularizing “Kirovtsev” and developing new models. Rapidly developing and expanding its specialization, the company in 2005 came to the creation of its own model line of tractors under the brand TERRION. So there were popular TERRION tractors with indexes 3180, 5280 and 7360.
                1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 22: 01 New
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                  Have you been on earth for a long time ?!
                  I live here from the "domestic" only old balarus, but leave these pictures, for reports in the Duma
                  about Kirovets read reviews he didn’t fall to anyone with his characteristics and their production volume is declining
                  In addition, of those tractors that are produced in the Russian Federation, 54% are screwdriver assembly of foreign brands, do not disgrace with the import of grain in 63, you already sat in a puddle
                  1. Vadim237 3 October 2019 01: 41 New
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                    “He didn’t fall to anyone” - He didn’t fall to you - Kirovtsev is being bought a lot, 130 such tractors were delivered to the Volgograd Region last year. "In addition, of the tractors that are produced in Russia, 54% are screwdriver assemblies of foreign brands" - Localization continues for less than 30% and these machines are in demand both on the domestic and foreign markets. TERRION in 2018 entered the top ten best tractors in the world. Here is the new Belarus - as you can see the trend
                    . About grain purchases
                    “In 1963, the USSR purchased 10,4 million tons and 2,1 million tons of flour from the United States. Some of the purchases were not spent on domestic consumption, but were forced to re-export. The severity of the crisis was temporarily removed, and in 1964, grain exports from the USSR again It exceeded its imports, but in 1965, already under Brezhnev, the previous situation repeated itself: the purchase of another 9 million tons of grain came out of the new crisis, and the usual balance was restored again.
                    The USSR has become chronicly dependent on food imports since 1972. In that year, only 1 million tons of grain was exported from the USSR, and 23 million tons were imported. In this respect, the years 1975 and 1979 became especially turning point, when grain exports fell almost to zero, at the same time, 27 million were purchased (according to other sources, 22 million) and 31 million tons of grain.
                    In 1980, imports amounted, in gross terms, to 43 million tons. And, finally, 1985 turned out to be the “blackest" when it was necessary to purchase 47 million tons (45,6 million according to other sources) of grain. In many ways, it was such a strong food dependence of the USSR that became one of the incentives for the Soviet leadership to declare Perestroika policy.
                    It should be noted that in the earlier, for example, the 1950s, when the USSR predominantly exported grain, its stable import also existed in the amount of 1-2 million tons per year. These were purchases of high-quality wheat varieties that were not grown in the USSR, including purchases of varietal seeds for subsequent cultivation in the USSR. Thus, it can be argued that the USSR always, with the exception of short periods, bought grain abroad. "- Re-export of grain, bought to our own foreign exchange reserves - I even guess where it went - to free help to the fraternal peoples of the social system around the world - we can say one leadership of the USSR D ...... s. "Have you been on earth for a long time ?!" I’ve been on the earth for a long time - and you are still flying in Soviet space.
                    1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 24 New
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                      once again I live on earth I SEE it and not a single domestic tractor, combine, grain dryer I do not observe
                    2. Foul skeptic 3 October 2019 09: 25 New
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                      The USSR has become chronicly dependent on food imports since 1972.

                      I have long noticed - the argument is Ctrl + C Ctrl + V from any sites that tear news or articles from each other. This is easily verified. It may be better to resort to an independent search in specialized collections - does such a search make you analyze the information found and draw an independent conclusion, rather than the one that someone put into the relayed articles?
                      Have you checked the article you copied? The first figure, in 1975, turned out to be false - grain imports 15,9 million tons, and not 27 (22). Moreover, of these 15,9 - 5,5 million tons of fodder corn. The remaining numbers are a match.
                      In a previous article, I already wrote and gave you numbers - in the USSR in the 80s WITHOUT import, there was more grain per person than now in the Russian Federation.
                      Banal food security, the norm of which is 1 ton per person of grain per year. Plus the needs of animal husbandry (because grain is not only wheat), which can be offset by the transition from cattle to poultry, which Russia did.

                      And the fact that you are happy for the large import now is also an indicator of attitude towards people, when people are nothing, profit is everything. Now it’s better to sell more for the hill, and people can bake bread by adding a flour from unsold bakery products to flour, which were also grinded before, but were used only as an addition to livestock in agriculture.
                      1. Vadim237 3 October 2019 12: 09 New
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                        "And the fact that you are happy for the big import now." I rejoice for the export, including mine - for this the whole country receives real money and I am the same, but not the loyalty and barter of other countries - which you can’t spread on bread as it was in the USSR. If you want high-quality and good bread, pay more or bake it yourself, for this everything is on sale.
          3. sunzhenets 3 October 2019 11: 19 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            And who do we have then: tanks, aircraft, rockets, reactors, rocket engines, tractors, trucks, jet and rocket engines, alloys, chemical components and much more - air

            https://red.msk.ru/v-rossii-likvidiruyutsya-krupnejshie-traktornye-zavody/
            According to the head of Rostec, Sergey Chemezov, the largest engineering concern in Russia, Tractor Plants, will be declared bankrupt. His debts amount to 85 billion rubles, and, as Chemezov admits, "the financial recovery of the company is currently impossible."
            The structure of the Concern Tractor Plants includes the following production sites:
            Altai Motor Plant OJSC - liquidated
            Vladimir Motor-Tractor Plant LLC - liquidated
            OJSC PA Krasnoyarsk Combine Plant - declared bankrupt
            "Volgograd Engineering Company" VgTZ "- liquidated
            Zauralsky Forge and Foundry - is on the verge of bankruptcy
            OJSC Krasnoyarsk Forest Engineering Plant (Kralesmash)
            Lipetsk Caterpillar Tractor Plant - declared bankrupt
            Onega Tractor Plant - declared bankrupt
            PJSC Promtractor - declared bankrupt
            JSC "Promtractor Wagon" - declared bankrupt
            LLC "Promtractor-Promlit" - declared bankrupt
            SAREX OJSC (production of excavators) - declared bankrupt
            "Tractor company" VgTZ "- declared bankrupt
            PJSC Cheboksary Aggregate Plant - declared bankrupt
            Volzhsky combine plant.
            OJSC Kurgan Machine-Building Plant (Kurganmashzavod)
        2. Revival 2 October 2019 14: 27 New
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          Excuse me, the Red Hammer is not Grozny? And then there was such a plant earlier
          1. sunzhenets 3 October 2019 11: 21 New
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            Quote: Revival
            Excuse me, the Red Hammer is not Grozny? And then there was such a plant earlier

            Yes, Grozny. In its place, I heard, now the market.
            1. Revival 3 October 2019 13: 18 New
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              I realized, thanks, I was there a long time ago, about 25 years ago, like 94m or 95
        3. The comment was deleted.
      9. Varyag71 2 October 2019 12: 15 New
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        Thanks to people like you, all this is now in your Russia
        1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 14 New
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          Unfortunately, this was all inevitable, since the USSR produced, but did not earn nichrine, the lion's share of exports was barter and the loyalty of dozens of countries - that’s what got burned.
          1. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 25 New
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            It’s strange. Offset doesn’t roll? Or is it necessary to take safes with cabbage back and forth? I bought potatoes for 100 rubles from you, and you have my markos for 100 rubles. I gave you 100 rubles for a potato with one bill, did you give me 100 rubles for a potato with two notes at 50 rubles? belay What is the trick brother? sad
            1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 17: 27 New
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              "Strange. Offsetting doesn't roll?" The USSR will offset them: machines, equipment, materials, pigs and loans - they give us back “coconuts” and loyalty to the USSR - potatoes, like money, went only one way. And then they were surprised that we were producing all this, and there was a shortage of everything in the country. The chip is just that.
          2. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 51 New
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            Quote: Vadim237
            the lion's share of exports was barter and the loyalty of dozens of countries - on this and burned.

            for that now he earns up to ... but at the same time it all goes offshore, invests in yachts. mansions and gold toilets
            Quote: Vadim237
            but nichrina did not earn

            and most importantly in the USSR - SELF-SUFFICIENCY, we produced underpants, refrigerators, sausages, and civilian aircraft
            1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 17: 35 New
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              "And the main thing in the USSR is SELF-SUFFICIENCY" Not a single country in the world has had it and never will have it. The USSR is no exception - as it bought equipment abroad: in Japan, trucks for the timber industry in Germany saw machine tools, grain was purchased in 1963, and they were bought for another seven years - giving up a third of the supposedly fodder grain gold reserve - but in fact, meat was also in short supply, as it was exported, and they began to shaman with sausage in the 9,5th.
              1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 17: 52 New
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                "Strange. Offsetting doesn't roll?" The USSR will offset them: machines, equipment, materials, pigs and loans - they give us back “coconuts” and loyalty to the USSR - potatoes, like money, went only one way. And then they were surprised that we were producing all this, and there was a shortage of everything in the country. The chip is just that.

                1963 million tons of grain was purchased in 9,5, and it was bought for another seven years - having given a third of the gold and foreign exchange reserves of “supposedly fodder grain” - but in fact the same meat was in short supply, as it was exported, and they started to shamanize 1968th.

                How about peas on the wall, the same thing from message to message, no matter what numbers and documents you bring.
                1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 26 New
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                  You have never given me anything in fact - and I will give you historically documented facts.
              2. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 20: 46 New
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                Quote: Vadim237
                Not a single country in the world has had it and never will. The USSR is no exception - as it bought equipment from abroad: in Japan, trucks for the timber industry in Germany were machine tools, grain was purchased in 1963, 9,5 million tons,

                Well, with regard to grain imports in the USSR, this is such a myth as the gigantic growth of industry in the Republic of Ingushetia at the beginning of the last century and import substitution in the Union of Artists in today's Russia, and since you were 63, you generally went to a puddle of grain import in 63 in 4 times lower than export
                just with grain, you need to clearly separate what was exported by variety, what was imported, how much it cost, etc.

                with regard to everything else, self-sufficiency is when a country can provide itself with everything vitally important, the USSR could not Russia if real sanctions and blockades are imposed on us now, we will have “Leningrad” across the whole country
                Quote: Vadim237
                but in fact the meat was in short supply

                WHERE?!!!!!
                was not in the shops, although this was not quite so at the bazaars
                1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 41 New
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                  "The USSR could not Russia if real sanctions and blockades are imposed on us, we will have Leningrad on the scale of the whole country." In Blockade Leningrad there was no electricity, no heat, no water supply, no products - almost none at all in Russia they produce all the electricity, and everything else that’s vitally important - what blockade are you talking about? Go down from heaven to earth, if we put a brick on Europe to supply gas and oil - half of its economy will rise, so it’s sitting on other people's energy resources, since its not, the green energy that they introduce there will never replace gas, oil and nuclear energy. It will not work to block Russia from all sides; the country is too big, too many air corridors pass through us and the cargo turnover in our territory is huge.
                  1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 21: 52 New
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                    first, in 4 years one could learn and insert quotes
                    the second
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    no products at all

                    and we won’t have it if tomorrow the import of spare parts and fertilizer seeds is closed to us, you can tell tales about import substitution in the CX further, but not to those who live on earth
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    if we put a brick on gas and oil supplies to Europe, half of its economy will rise

                    DO NOT RISE Not afraid of Americans podsuetsutsya you really thinks that the war in Syria is a struggle against the igil and other beards ?!
                    Quote: Vadim237
                    Russia cannot block Russia from all sides

                    it wouldn’t work for the USSR, the Americans were calculating us and how we were, we destroyed our pharmaceuticals, that remained working on imported raw materials, we don’t have our own fleet of civil aviation aircraft, our seeds, and our equipment, we don’t even provide ourselves with underpants and socks, so believe in your mantras further
                    1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 01: 25 New
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                      hi Quotes to embed on the VO is rather dreary. Easier as Vadim.
                      1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 25 New
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                        Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                        Quotes to embed on the VO is rather dreary. Easier as Vadim.

                        well don't tell anyone
                      2. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 16: 50 New
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                        What's so funny? It’s not so easy to insert quotes on the VO. [Quote] [/ quote] Here is the result of quoting. Easier to select and paste. And takes up less space. hi
                      3. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 17: 02 New
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                        highlighted, clicked a quote, no problems
                      4. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 17: 19 New
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                        Why is my quote not inserted?
                      5. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 18: 48 New
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                        which browser?
                        earlier than 4 years ago there were glitches with IE
                      6. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 19: 00 New
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                        there is a second method inserted through Ctr + V, then select the desired text in the input field and click on quotation marks
                      7. SOVIET UNION 2 4 October 2019 13: 57 New
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                        Some kind of bastard put you minus. Minute without hesitation.
                        [/ quote] It is worth Yandex. buttons without English names. [quote]
                        What kind of nonsense?
          3. Vadim237 3 October 2019 01: 49 New
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            "DON'T STOP RISKY NOT AFRIDANTS THE Americans WILL HELP YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE WAR IN SYRIA IS A FIGHT AGAINST ISLES AND OTHER BEARS ?!" Run to Navalny soon there, such as you adore - so from 2000 to 4000 militants from Russia fighting on the side of ISIS in Syria, you can leave them - they are your relatives, "Brother for Brother is taken as the basis."
            1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 27 New
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              Quote: Vadim237
              Run to Navalny soon there, such as you adore - so from 2000 to 4000 militants from Russia fighting on the side of ISIS in Syria, you can leave them -

              that is, you are off the beaten track with both Kirovets and grain export, to Oyna in the Middle East, especially for you this is a war for the transportation of gas, by the way
            2. Vadim237 3 October 2019 12: 18 New
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              "That is, you are not in the right foot in the subject with both Kirovets and grain export, the war in the Middle East, especially for you this is a war for the transportation of gas to the word" Especially for such "shovel brakes" - do not fill me with garbage . The war will continue there for a long time and until the entire territory is cleaned with explosive objects - and it takes at least another ten years, there can be no talk of any joint oil production by our companies in Syria.
            3. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 13: 06 New
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              What have you uploaded from icteric sites?
              clearly and distinctly without snot and everything else, the volume of exports and imports of grain of the USSR in 1963, call
              Quote: Vadim237
              there can be no talk of any joint oil production by our companies in Syria.

              you are a funny person but in general what does production in Syria have to do with it ?!
              learn the mate part, maybe you are doing bearings and it’s good, I can’t check there is no company name, and in principle you don’t know the topic
  • Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 15 New
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    Quote: Corn
    high-quality industrial equipment and even commonplace food, all this is not only in the former USSR

    do not write nonsense about what you don’t know, the Union had quite modern equipment for itself, another question is that if the machine worked but was old, then no one changed it, now it’s the turn for the new one, regardless of whether there is a technological need for it or no
    Quote: Corn
    I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

    Excuse me, but can you find out your age, education and position in which you work ?!
  • Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 16 New
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    Quote: Corn
    universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drinkers

    and when was universal POVERTY equality ?!
  • Vadim237 2 October 2019 17: 21 New
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    "I do not like Russia - get out of the DPRK" From the DPRK, thousands of poachers have already sailed to our shores, the Chukhche ideology has nothing to eat in action "But you will find food from Russia" The party and personally approve KimYN - now our border guards still meet them normally, but if this will continue with increasing force, they will open fire without speaking to defeat and drown everyone.
  • Revival 2 October 2019 18: 25 New
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    Then, by your logic, capitalism is scrapped.
    You pulled out a short piece from the history of the life of the USSR and write that this was the only thing, and that can only be under socialism.
    Ok, take your method to capitalism ...
    We take the time of the “Great Depression in the USA” (we also tear out a piece from the history of the country and there was nothing more at point blank and that's it):
    "Capitalism is a dead end, people eke out a miserable existence, swell with hunger, a wave of suicides, bankruptcies across the country, work for a bowl of soup, such a system in figs, never again, enough!"
    Here is such an objectivity and your comment about life in the USSR.
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 48 New
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      In North Korea, socialism is now - and hunger, fuel, deficit, electricity, deficit; all materials; there is almost no tractor shortage in the agricultural sector, and so on. Capitalism is better. You do not forget that it is precisely capitalism that creates everything advanced - in this the USSR has always been lagging behind, both in mechanical engineering, in electronics and electronic components, as well as in civilian consumer goods.
      1. Revival 2 October 2019 21: 57 New
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        China says they have socialism.
        And it seems that they don’t have “hunger fuel, energy shortage, electricity shortage, all materials, there are almost no tractors shortages in the agricultural sector, and so on.
        1. Cat man null 2 October 2019 22: 06 New
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          Quote: Revival
          China says they have socialism

          Believe it yourself? What "China says" is ... it's not too interesting.
          1. Revival 2 October 2019 22: 08 New
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            Well then, and in the sowing of Korea is not socialism and it is not an example
            1. Cat man null 2 October 2019 22: 16 New
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              Quote: Revival
              Well then, and in the sowing of Korea is not socialism

              Well, if in the classics - there just takes place a ban on private ownership of the means of production, which, sort of, is considered the main sign of socialism.

              So, I personally have no reason not to believe Eun.
        2. Vadim237 3 October 2019 01: 50 New
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          China has a real market economy.
      2. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 01: 30 New
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        Well, in Afghanistan today there is nothing to eat. And in Iraq. And in Libya. Is socialism there too?
  • eagle owl 2 October 2019 10: 04 New
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    Not this way

    One of the options for the destruction of the country - the country collapses just when working in the service sector becomes less honorable occupation than raising bread. Unfortunately, I do not remember the phrase in the original. And now we are just beginning to understand back what a country is. populated by the darkness of lawyers and economists, where no one is even able to turn on a light bulb without closing a cartridge in front of it with their fingers, is not viable.
    Although here's how to say it. In the 90s, we also laughed at a law school, for example - “Well, look, a couple more years, and you need to work, but what do you know how? and if not? How can you do something like a cop from a movie? Yes, there is something to despair from. "
    1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 10: 25 New
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      Quote: Uhu
      One of the options for the destruction of the country - the country collapses just when working in the service sector becomes less honorable occupation than raising bread.

      Maybe on the contrary, more honorable?
      1. eagle owl 2 October 2019 10: 26 New
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        Yes, I'm sorry. Well, yes, you understand the meaning)
  • tihonmarine 2 October 2019 10: 48 New
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    Quote: Egoza
    And it was not necessary to destroy the Soviet system of education!

    I agree with you, education is ruined. But It is destroyed, just like the Soviet Union, it is impossible to build a capitalist society without completely destroying the socialist society. So are the workers' specialties, because we have the main slogan of socialism, "Unite the proletarians of all countries." So the proletariat is not needed now, only managers and slaves are needed.
  • Vadim237 2 October 2019 12: 48 New
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    If you want to earn a lot and be well-to-do, complete an IP, create your own production or services, create products and sell them on the domestic market, with the subsequent transition to foreign markets - the path is complex and long, no one will become rich right away, you need to make no small work. Without knowledge, problems cannot be overcome, but they will be with everyone and everyone will have to learn, someone before, someone later - this is inevitable.
    1. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 37 New
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      Being all wealthy is how? Sociologists have already conducted surveys of the wishes of the population. requests turned out to be rather modest. To have palaces and factories among desires, they and I did not notice. But to have a job with a salary allowing it to live for the elite? If the military is given housing today, is it a freebie or communism? Why is it impossible in civilian life? If officials are paid good salaries, is it a freebie or communism?
      1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 17: 39 New
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        In one of the polls for a good life, it was 219000 rubles a month, in the second 68000 in the third, 97000 - a complete discrepancy at the request of complete and contradicting each other - polls of residents of Russia.
        1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 00: 45 New
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          Very modest requests! Even half a million did not want to! Not a day, not a month! fellow
      2. Vadim237 2 October 2019 17: 41 New
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        I would generally reduce 60% of all officials from the State Duma to the village administration - I replaced the functional with one window and state Internet services on various issues - online.
        1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 00: 49 New
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          And put them on a paycheck calculated as a multiple of the minimum or the percentage of deductions working for the management fund. For example, 0.01% of deductions from salaries go to the salaries of officials. It would probably be fair.
    2. Revival 2 October 2019 15: 47 New
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      I already have an IP.
      But many say that in the West workers have productivity, and they are paid.
      Then, probably, we also have a work schedule in Spain, where the driver was driving, and then lunch, he stopped the train in the field and stopped “lunch”, or maybe like in Germany, when at the first second of lunch and the end of the working day a work bucket of paint puts at any stage and home.
      In our country, too, it’s like “it’s free of charge for the idea” to linger, lift and load what people can’t manually lift by weight, go on weekends and what kind of double and voluntarily forced consent is it good that they didn’t get fired?
      1. Cat man null 2 October 2019 16: 23 New
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        Quote: Revival
        in Spain, the work schedule, where the driver was driving, and then lunch, he stopped the train in the field and all stop "lunch"

        Well, okay. And pilots, Spanish, planes for lunch at the airport, or parked in the sky?

        Quote: Revival
        I can answer you as a lawyer ... I have an IP

        The knowledge about the "routine in Spain - Germany" from there, go?

        Why not hear enough on the Internet ... Noah's ark, practically - each creature has a pair laughing
        1. Revival 2 October 2019 18: 03 New
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          I wanted to answer in a meaningful way, but on duty you are "emptiness".
          Not worth it ..
          1. Cat man null 2 October 2019 18: 08 New
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            Quote: Revival
            you are "emptiness"

            Well, still better than yap internet wink

            Quote: Revival
            Not worth it ..

            ... but how it hangs (s) laughing

            Thorough, Thorough yes
    3. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 54 New
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      Quote: Vadim237
      If you want to earn a lot and be well-to-do, get an IP

      firstly, not everyone can create YOUR own enterprise, and secondly, you contradict yourself why working in someone else’s enterprise, I can’t get a WAY worthy salary for my work, but on your own please
      the problem is the distortion of our economy
      1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 17: 48 New
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        If you want to live well, you will have to do it, otherwise no one will pay you much. Because the owner has the right to pay at his discretion - the minimum wage is from her and dance. At the enterprise no one keeps you - you can leave.
        1. Revival 2 October 2019 18: 12 New
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          But here it was.
          One comment exposed ...
          The veils of compulsion, justice, a state approach, humanity slept ...
          It turned out to be simply an unremitting desire to take everything to ourselves to the “owner", and not how much is needed, but all.
          And they talked about labor productivity, but it turns out that at least "1000" productivity is at least "54", I'm just the owner and I want to take everything from you.
          Cynical cannibalistic approach ...
          And then such "owners" are surprised that sooner or later they take everything, and not just money, with "soft" methods.
          Owners do not understand that this society provides them with the opportunity to be an "owner" in general, and in general to be.
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 54 New
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            "A cynical cannibalistic approach ..." This is a worldwide reality - people are always few and they want more and more. "And then these" owners "are surprised that sooner or later they will be taken away with their" soft "methods, and not just money." - Take away only from suckers.
            1. Revival 2 October 2019 22: 07 New
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              Yes, if according to your logic only “suckers” are taken away, then it can be seen in RI that there were only suckers in your opinion?
              Or, nevertheless, the reason is that if 5% seized and seized everything from 95%, then sooner or later with further loss of coast, 95% will come and take away at least 5% of the suckers, even though they do not.
              And by the way, by your logic, this is true!
              With a cynical, inhuman approach, the "owners" have the right to cynically and "rightfully" profit from the bulk, and the bulk also has the right
              cynically and "rightfully" come and take away!
              And in this case, you can’t complain, because the cynical approach should justly work in both directions, otherwise it will turn out “for what we are.”
              Having removed moral responsibility from yourself, you also remove moral responsibility from your opponent!
        2. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 20: 47 New
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          you write specific nonsense
          communicate with psychologists, most are NOT ABLE to lead due to psychological characteristics
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 21: 57 New
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            I don’t need to go to a psychologist, you need to go to a psychologist - you haven’t entered yet, no one will give you anything, everyone is for himself and you are the creator of your own happiness.
            1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 22: 09 New
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              once again, for the illiterate, psychologists are not only involved in brains, but also describe the behavior of people, so there is scientifically sound data on the percentage of people in society who have the inclinations of a leader and do not have them.
              Further, I, the creator of my happiness, decided to become cool milling workers, but people like you think this is stupidity and nonsense, so I can not dream of big incomes because I went to work at a factory and did not open an IP
        3. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 20: 52 New
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          Quote: Vadim237
          minimum wage from her and dance

          a simple question, but tomorrow EVERYONE decided to create their own IP, then what ?!
  • bar
    bar 2 October 2019 13: 14 New
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    And it was not necessary to destroy the Soviet system of education!

    The Soviet system of technical education was specialized and targeted, i.e. all vocational schools, technical schools and universities were tied to some basic industrial enterprises, for which and on the basis of which they trained personnel, as needed. And these personnel were mainly employed at these enterprises. After the death of these enterprises, educational institutions tried to survive, and reprofiled. Vocational schools / technical schools have become colleges, universities have begun to produce managers / brokers / economists / lawyers. Cherry on the cake - the European system, when instead of an engineer in any specialty, masters / bachelors are obtained.
  • Chaldon48 2 October 2019 13: 55 New
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    We must not forget that the poorest manager and lawyer is always the boss and the worker, and even for the most part an engineer, if he does not have the title of chief, they are obliged to carry out their orders directly or indirectly, and not vice versa. So the young man thinks that it is better for him to be the master of life or to follow someone’s instructions until the end of his days.
    1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 58 New
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      Quote: Chaldon48
      So the young man thinks that it is better for him to be the master of life or to follow someone’s instructions until the end of his days.
      that is, being a worker is bad ?!
  • Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 15: 11 New
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    Quote: Egoza
    on a par with managers

    and the manager is who? !!!!
    what is its function?
    1. Revival 2 October 2019 16: 02 New
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      I can answer you, as a lawyer (representing different companies and individuals), on the example of agreeing on the terms of the contract, etc.
      Here in this case, the "manager" is a check to double-check the letters in the contract, specification, laws, etc., mainly on the subject of how not to respond according to the contract, and as if the opponent would not dodge responsibility!
      And all because, the lion's share of household contracts is initially aimed at the fact that both parties are not going to fulfill the contract initially (in full or in part). Here is such a system of irresponsibility in the country.
      Almost always when I go to court from one of the parties, it turns out from the documents of the defendant that he not only cheated, but also him. Is always!
      Therefore, a lawyer is urgently needed in this situation. But this is a consequence! And this need is generated by an extremely "unfit" reason, namely, the genetic irresponsibility of our "businessmen", who simply initially at the conclusion of the contract simply want to receive an advance payment and not do anything (and the like). This is just the birthmark of modern Russian business.
      1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 01: 03 New
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        What's in the joke about the contract? Why is the boat painted on one side? Who's guilty? Read the contract. The contract for the painting of the vessel was concluded on the one hand, by our brigade, on the other hand, by the river port. Is that all right? That's right! We have fulfilled our part of the contract, we have painted our side, there is no river port! wassat
    2. Chaldon48 2 October 2019 18: 36 New
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      Manager manager, versed in market relations, constantly leading the search for sales of goods owned by the company in which he works.
      1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 20: 51 New
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        Quote: Chaldon48
        Manager manager, versed in market relations, constantly leading the search for sales of goods owned by the company in which he works.

        So you don’t know the same?
        sorry, but the sale of goods logistics and the purchase of raw materials, for example, are two different things
        and ONE person as a rule does not know how to do this; besides, there are industry specifics, regional ones, etc.
        today's manager is an amateur
        1. Chaldon48 3 October 2019 03: 55 New
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          I just quoted one paper, which in 1992 I had a chance to read at the so-called accelerated business courses, which at that time had an incredible amount.
          1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 28 New
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            Quote: Chaldon48
            at the so-called accelerated business courses

            and in the Union this was taught for 5 years
  • Revival 2 October 2019 18: 16 New
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    Your reproach about education would be logical if it were accidentally destroyed.
    But they destroyed the education system in a directed and special way, this was one of the goals.
    So the reproach is inappropriate here, it is their goal that they achieved and achieved, and the result suits them and they needed it.
    1. Chaldon48 2 October 2019 18: 40 New
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      It is necessary to look more broadly, not only education but also health care has been destroyed, the whole system of relations between people who grew up and brought up in the USSR, their very life is destroyed.
    2. Flatter 2 October 2019 21: 31 New
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      The destruction of the education system is a logical step, after the destruction of the industrial economy. That is, the restoration of industry in the Russian Federation was not initially envisaged by Western curators.
  • Uncle lee 2 October 2019 09: 10 New
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    Well done Semin! Already the second burning question was highlighted in VO!
  • lukewarm 2 October 2019 09: 15 New
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    Despite the fact that today in the field of working specialties there is an increase in salaries,

    Wow! Where is it? Can I have a reference? Everywhere the actual decline. The growth is basically this: they put a salary, removed the premium. Reported on salary growth. Everywhere. And if a pieceworker - then how lucky. There is work - there is a salary. No means no.
    I agree only on the shortage of workers. Yes, the owners are looking for and can’t find. Do not stand in line at the checkpoint. Then the working specialties are just the same word. A mason, concrete worker, turner and cleaner are all working specialties. But they are claimed and paid differently. Mechanical engineering is a sad fact. Despite all the "accomplishments". Routine, low salaries.
    1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 10: 40 New
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      Quote: unwillingly
      Do not stand in line at the checkpoint.

      In my radius of 15 minutes of walking from the house, 4 enterprises were destroyed, employing several thousand people. There are no walk-throughs. But then a couple of new ones appeared that in the USSR would be called co-workers, since up to 10 people work there each. This is the "production" of beer from concentrate, the manufacture of monuments for a cemetery, plus a funeral home. All for the people! sad
  • carstorm 11 2 October 2019 09: 22 New
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    something I did not understand ... so engineers are not needed or workers? and then all the building faculties, for example, which I personally know there is a competition more than any other))) as well as I, for example, did not want to be a worker, I do not want and never want to be. I don’t want this for my children. and not because of some sort of rejection from these specialties, but I just want to give them the opportunity to reach the maximum in their careers and in life. and the level of the worker is definitely not that. and what’s wrong with that? I understand the desire to raise some professions in status, but why after such videos or articles I get the feeling that I'm to blame for something?)))
    1. bar
      bar 2 October 2019 13: 31 New
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      something I did not understand ... so engineers are not needed or workers? and then all the building departments, for example, which I personally know there is a competition more than any other)))

      Yes, in fact no one is needed. Competition is not an indicator. At one time, lawyers / economists broke. In the same medical schools, the competition goes off scale stably, but where are the doctors at the exit?
      1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 14: 17 New
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        Well, like there are doctors. to whom I take the children. and builders are an indicator. just look at HH.
        1. bar
          bar 2 October 2019 16: 06 New
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          You're lucky. And my mother has 3 therapists in a polyclinic for 2 sites. One is 65 years old, the other is 72 years old. And both on disability. That’s how much longer they will last, and what will happen next?
          There is not even a conversation about narrow specialists, only in the regional center, which is 120 km away.
          1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 19: 49 New
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            Well, in small towns this is really a problem. I do not argue with that. heard a lot. just did not come across. I think it's hard to drag specialists there.
            1. bar
              bar 2 October 2019 19: 58 New
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              This is clear. But I will return to the education system. The same medical schools in the country did not decrease, the competition is stably large, there are a lot of graduates. Where do they go? After all, Moscow and all the surrounding intramuscular districts will not be so employed. So they work anywhere, and not necessarily in their specialty. Because no one wants to work in their specialty for beggarly wages in the same small cities. It turns out that they were not needed. The same is with other qualified specialties. Here is the demand for sales representatives, forwarding drivers and movers to work in the warehouse is consistently high. And the salaries are not bad due to the need for such specialties.
              1. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 22: 12 New
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                Quote: bar
                Because no one wants to work in their specialty for beggarly wages in the same small cities

                the salary is not always beggarly, the more so it is necessary to compare it not with patches in MAAAskva but with general indicators in the region, the entire system of training and further steam distribution is done through one place, well, or intentionally everything goes to the abyss
                1. bar
                  bar 3 October 2019 07: 59 New
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                  well, or intentionally everything goes to the abyss

                  I think there is no conspiracy theory here. Everything is much worse. Just all do not care. Just a mess ...
          2. Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 21: 00 New
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            Quote: bar
            And my mother has 3 therapists in a polyclinic for 2 sites.

            we have ONE in the whole area and two weeks ahead of time, the flu itself will go away
            1. bar
              bar 3 October 2019 07: 56 New
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              Well, you live in a village, on earth. And I wrote about the city, a former industrial center for military electronics.
              1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 21 New
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                But aren't people on earth?
                Can their veterinarian cure?
  • Corn 2 October 2019 09: 22 New
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    It is not fashionable to be a rogue, and this is completely normal.
    If the workers are not paid normal money, then their work is not very much in demand.
    1. Campanella 2 October 2019 09: 56 New
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      Oooh, how is everything running!
      Fashionable you are ours.
      That’s why the country has been breaking the bottom for more than a year, because professional personnel for science, industry, education, medicine are not in demand in it ...
      1. Corn 2 October 2019 10: 13 New
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        You specify which country breaks the bottom and what it is.
        Kilometer-long lines for toilet paper - not the bottom, 7 square meters of housing per person and the mass construction of panel slums - is also not the bottom, even the flight of the population from the country as soon as possible - and this is not the bottom .... and only 20 years of stability and prosperity people are tormented by "patriots" like torture, I understand you correctly?
        1. Greenwood 2 October 2019 10: 25 New
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          +9
          Quote: Corn
          Kilometer-long lines for toilet paper - not the bottom, 7 square meters of housing per person and mass construction of panel slums
          What do you mean?
          Quote: Corn
          flight of the population from the country as soon as possible
          You described this modern Russia, where half of young people dream of this.
          Quote: Corn
          20 years of stability and prosperity
          And where is stability and prosperity?
        2. lukewarm 2 October 2019 10: 31 New
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          Stability and well-being except in comparison with the 90s. And so we did not even reach the level of the failed 89th, when everything was already falling apart. And is GDP growth within the limits of statistical error, officially recognized, is it not the bottom?
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 23 New
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            In the Union of Artists, they reached the 1989 level, and in the nuclear industry the same.
            1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 14: 32 New
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              In the Union of Artists, they reached the 1989 level, and in the nuclear industry the same.

              What sources did you use?

              This is an agricultural overview plate. In addition to sugar beets and sunflowers, no particular progress is noticeable.
              1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 05 New
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                Do not tell me how much money it all earned in 1992? The volume of agricultural production in Russia in 2017 amounted to 5,7 trillion rubles (about $ 100 billion). In 2018 - 117 billion exports - $ 25 billion.
                In 1978, a record grain harvest for the Soviet period was collected in the RSFSR - 127 million tons.
                In 2017, the volume of grain and leguminous crops was 135,4 million tons. There is something wrong with your grain table.
                Now the main thing is not how much or how much is in CX - but how much money it brings.
                1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 18: 41 New
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                  Do not tell me how much money it all earned in 1992? Now the main thing is not how much or how much is in CX - but how much money it brings.

                  An interesting approach to reason like this. And in the last correspondence, where you participated, I already wrote about the dynamics of prices in world markets. And what does this mean only that for the amount that the USSR produced, they would now receive more money, since they would sell more or not buy what we already have. Therefore, let's look at natural indicators. And then you can start everything in rubles. And the ruble “that” and our ruble are different rubles. And they forget about it all the time. And everything will be fun in general.
                  There is something wrong with your grain table.

                  Everything can be. Only the table is still not mine, but Rosstat, from their collection, on their website. And you above when you wrote the numbers for 1978 and 2017 for some reason compared the "grain" and "grain + legumes." And in my table it says "grain". But these are the little things in life and the nuances of statistics. )
                  And after your spreadsheet in Excel, I have a question for you - does it mean that they have not yet reached 1989? Or reached out? But how do you know the nameplate 2015 ends) Where did it come from?
                  And I will tell you the secret to the success of crop production - oilseeds, especially soybeans and rapeseed, the production of which has grown in relative terms the most, by 7 times. Although there is certainly progress, much more fertilizer is being introduced, higher yields, better feed, egg production, milk yield, etc. also higher, reduced by 10 times the loss of meat products of livestock. But who would say that if the USSR would contribute less, feed less, because they produce fertilizers and feed anyway more than they do now? ) And the oil prices would also be current)))
                  1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 22: 13 New
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                    “And what does this mean only that for the amount that the USSR would produce now they would get more money” - Only the USSR earned nothing on the Union of Artists as well as on everything else, since the 1989 figure with a GDP of 3 trillion rubles is export profit of only 54 billion dollars, this amount even a tenth of the value did not match what the USSR exported for the year, and it has always been so since the 50s — then the ruble was equal to the dollar — well, almost equal. And let's not compare Russia with the USSR - it included 15 countries, let's compare Russia with the RSFSR, and better not even compare - then there was a planned economy, now a market one. Then it was produced for the sake of producing something no matter what - it was needed, not needed. And now we produce as much as we are ready to buy.
                    1. Foul skeptic 3 October 2019 10: 07 New
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                      1989 figure with a GDP of 3 trillion rubles - export profit of only 54 billion dollars, this amount even a tenth of the value did not match what the USSR exported for the year

                      Last time I asked you for a source of information - the USSR did not use the GDP indicator (GNP and GP) and did not calculate exports in dollars. It may turn out to be the same as the one where in 1975 imported 27 million tons of grain
                      And he also asked me to indicate the origin of the tablet.
                      Then it was produced for the sake of which it is important to produce something - it is needed, not

                      Are you talking about now? What unnecessary thing was then produced from 20 million items of goods? And how is it unnecessary than the current ones, for example, a fan for cooling soup, an alarm dumbbell, drying for ears, etc.?
        3. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 11: 17 New
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          7 square meters of housing per person

          What year is this? And then the figure is doubled.
          mass construction of panel slums

          Why are you so dismissive?
          If they weren’t, then now the mass of people would have nowhere to stumble
          In 1992, the housing stock was 2492 million m2 (16,8 m2 per person)
          In 2017 - 3724 million m2 (25,2 m2 per person)
          What do you think will happen if the “panel slums” that you hate are thrown out of statistics? How many squares per person are there? This is despite the fact that now statistics per person does not take into account migrants who occupy premises anyway. Well, do not be lazy, find statistics on dilapidated and dilapidated housing, how do we manage to replace it with a new one?
          Everyone didn’t live in the mansions either
          The average apartment area in 1992 is 60,8 m2
          In 2017 - 69,6 m2
          The proportion of roominess is much more indicative (the first figure is 1992, the second is 2017)
          one-room - 18 - 46
          two-room apartments - 32 - 29
          three-room apartments - 40 - 16
          the rest - 10 - 9
          People are happy with odnushka, but they don’t even dream about a three-ruble note - the market has adapted to the possibilities. And don’t have to, but about me.
          Social Statistics I don’t even want to bring objects, just like not for social. however. Now we have a great achievement that the roads have finally begun to build. In 2017, as many as 2,3 thousand km. Where there is 1992 with 27 thousand.
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 26 New
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            “Where is 1992 with 27 thousand?” Most of them are probably unpaved to build them much easier and cheaper than asphalt concrete.
            1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 13: 57 New
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              Most of them are probably unpaved

              No, 27 thousand are paved roads.
        4. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 30 New
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          Quote: Corn
          7 square meters of housing per person

          you go to Europe and be surprised to know that Khrushchev is a luxury, and they don’t even dream about the Soviet communal services
          Quote: Corn
          and only 20 years of stability and prosperity of the people are tormented by "patriots" like torture, I understand you correctly?

          Listen, how old are you?
      2. Loess 2 October 2019 10: 18 New
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        Quote: Campanella
        that it is not in demand

        “Not claimed” and “not paid enough” are two different things.
        1. bar
          bar 2 October 2019 13: 39 New
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          These are interconnected things. If a person is paid a beggarly salary, then he is not really needed, and if he leaves, nothing will cry for him. This time. And two - in order to get a qualified specialist, he must study, spend his time and money, which he must "recapture" by entering work. Accordingly, the payment for this work should be appropriate, so as not only not to die of hunger, but also to recoup the time / money spent.
          1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 54 New
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            Quote: bar
            it means he is not much needed, and if he leaves, nothing will cry for him.
            you are such nonsense. this means that someone wants for free to get an employee, and in his place there are many others who want to
            1. bar
              bar 3 October 2019 09: 13 New
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              So we are bearing the same nonsense, since we both said the same thing.
              1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 16 New
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                once again, the worker himself is needed, just bestial conditions are created under which a person is forced to work for a lower salary
                1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Lexus 2 October 2019 10: 12 New
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      It’s not in fashion to be a rogue

      And once upon a time? If only under the tsar-priest, because in the USSR they lived modestly, but there were no beggars.
      completely normal

      Alas, "completely normal" now began to be a traitor, a thief, a jester, an idiot, a drug addict and a pederast.
      1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 39 New
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        In Russia, it has always been stolen, it is and always will be.
        1. Lexus 2 October 2019 13: 54 New
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          Call for humility / learned patience / tolerance? Without you, "preachers" abound.
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 33 New
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            I state the fact. And tolerance and so on is your direction.
            1. Lexus 2 October 2019 14: 39 New
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              And tolerance and stuff is your direction

              Don’t record me in your ranks. stop
              1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 26 New
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                It’s you who pulled the hell out of here - “Call for humility / learned patience / tolerance?”
                1. Lexus 2 October 2019 18: 42 New
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                  In Russia it was always stolen, there is also will always be.

                  He endured and told you ...
                  1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 22: 15 New
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                    "He endured and told you ..." What are you talking about? Who is he?
        2. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 55 New
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          Quote: Vadim237
          In Russia, they always stole

          difference in scale and protrusion of the cooked
    3. lukewarm 2 October 2019 10: 36 New
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      Quote: Corn
      It’s not in fashion to be a rogue

      Why are the zealous guardians of power in their contempt for the people so united with their opponents from the liberal camp? After all, Sobchak said the same thing. You still scolded with quilted jackets. So that everyone could understand. Not ... after all, you probably pee on Conte under the nickname "Blonde." Yes Karl?
      1. Lexus 2 October 2019 14: 44 New
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        Why are the zealous guardians of power in their contempt for the people so united with their opponents from the liberal camp?

        I do not see the difference between them. They are one "heap of seeds." They do a "common cause", they profess the same "values".
      2. Saul_Rhen 2 October 2019 23: 39 New
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        You can also call me a guard, but I see the opposite. It was local communists who jumped in time with the bulkiers, liberals and other garbage, rejoice at the country's failures and pour tons of slops on it. You can’t look at you, “patriots,” without contempt.
        1. sniperino 3 October 2019 09: 32 New
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          Quote: Saul_Rhen
          It was local communists who jumped in time with the bulkiers, liberals and other garbage, rejoice at the country's failures and pour tons of slops on it.
          The theoretical justification for this tactic of political struggle is given in Lenin's article "On the defeat of his government in the imperialist war." The war is going on today, and the manuals are being developed by the State Department for Navalny, and the Communists, it seems to me, because of the absence of Lenin in their ranks and in order to save the “gold of the party,” they extort everything that concerns the USSR from there, leave all the dirt about the modern Russian Federation and supplement her mantra "Tepericha - not like this morning", replacing the blasphemy with the socialist system by a pastoral based on the dictionary of antonyms. Hence, such a synchronous high of our country of these seemingly very different political forces.
        2. lukewarm 3 October 2019 12: 23 New
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          Quote: Saul_Rhen
          You can also call me a guard

          I will name it. A guard is not a patriot. Did you see what I answered with your comment? If not, then here: "It is not in fashion to be a rogue ...". All! Where, DEAR, I wrote something about the Communists, etc. etc? And if they jump together with someone, I don't care. They do not call me a scoop, padded jacket and rogue, do not offer to eat macaroni like Russian bureaucracy. This is ME enough. And it’s not for you to determine who is a patriot, but who is a “patriot”. And then first privatized enterprises, now patriotism. Worthless! As for slops - and pouring is not worth it. Enough of the real ones around. And for the hundredth time I’m saying: change tactics, if you really want to protect the government. Roughly: they misinterpreted the idea, disputed that they misinterpreted, made a conclusion and hung a label. Act thinner. Good luck.
          1. Saul_Rhen 3 October 2019 17: 35 New
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            Not tired of writing angry speech? You see, on this site there is a very wonderful thing - the message history. And you have in it - a 100 percent set of propaganda stamps and manuals. Typical daughter of an officer. From such excellent traitors come out - "I am against the government, and not against the country." It’s familiar. Jump on
            1. lukewarm 4 October 2019 08: 32 New
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              Tired ... from you laughing Traitor .. Where can I get my 30 pieces of silver from the State Department? .Life will show. Good traitors came from those who throated throats at rallies. But in fact - they crap one's pants. I’ve been on the site for the year 13 or 14. Bother reading my earlier comments. I don’t suffer from “Odbryryoms”, but it’s too early to write me down as an enemy. Yes, and in fact you didn’t answer me. We switched to the personality and history of comments. Then I finish the "dispute". There are stubborn ones everywhere and they cannot be barked. And I don’t set such a goal. Sick - said. Be. Good luck again on the field of information battles.
    4. JD1979 2 October 2019 10: 41 New
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      The product of inadequate pay in the education system.
      1. Monster_Fat 2 October 2019 11: 38 New
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        I found such on the internet, here, the data on the minimum wages in Latin America and in Russia (I don’t know how true they are):
        Costa Rica - $ 438
        Chile - $ 418
        Uruguay - $ 415
        Ecuador - $ 386
        Guatemala - $ 356
        Paraguay - $ 355
        Panama - $ 318
        Bolivia - $ 300
        Argentina - $ 295
        Peru - $ 278
        Honduras - $ 252
        Colombia - $ 245
        Brazil - $ 244
        Russia - $ 166
        https://subscribe.ru/group/rossiya-today/15440893/ winked
        In fact, the notorious “minimum wage” is precisely that “foundation” on which the low level of Russian salaries is mounted — namely, the so-called “employers” in relations with labor resources in Russia are guided by the “minimum wage”. Raise the "minimum wage" (which, in fact, is completely false, accrues from the ceiling and does not meet the needs of an adult) and then employers will have to raise the wages of their workers, otherwise they will not be forced to do so.
        1. Avior 2 October 2019 12: 21 New
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          For completeness, add Ukraine to the list. $ 171
          So that the situation is more clearly manifested ....
        2. bar
          bar 2 October 2019 13: 41 New
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          Raise the "minimum wage"

          And employers will go to the "gray" zone with salaries in envelopes
          1. Revival 2 October 2019 14: 35 New
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            To do this, there is tax and law enforcement, to introduce the same measure of responsibility as in the "West", the United States for evasion and non-payment. Then look at the envelopes and gray sn.
            This is so offhand, although the question is more multifaceted
            1. bar
              bar 2 October 2019 16: 02 New
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              That is what is multifaceted. And stupidly raising the minimum wage is not solved. What I tried to convey.
        3. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 47 New
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          There is an official salary in Russia - but it is not yet official, statistics do not take it into account, since it is impossible to calculate it, but it can be safely included in the shadow economy, taxes from this salary are not paid, the figure for the year is 20 trillion rubles - from muhlezh with taxes .
          1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 14: 14 New
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            impossible to count it

            20 trillion rubles - from tax fraud

            two phrases contradict each other))
            1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 35 New
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              The number is very conditional, no one will calculate the real one - well, unless only when all the money has become electronic and will pass under one calculation system.
              1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 14: 38 New
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                I certainly agree with you that accounting for funds is now very difficult and erodes the picture.
          2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 50 New
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            Is offshore a shadow economy? Why are they taken there if they are honestly earned?
            1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 27 New
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              Offshore companies need the same thing - to circumvent sanctions in concluding transactions with foreign companies.
              1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 15 New
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                Quote: Vadim237
                Offshore companies need the same - to circumvent sanctions

                you are arde how you position yourself as a businessman, and you carry such a blizzard, the only goal of offshore companies is to avoid taxation, if you conduct transactions in bucks then even through Mars you will not get away from sanctions
        4. Chaldon48 3 October 2019 06: 33 New
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          +1
          I remember Khrushchev with catching up with and overtaking him, at least Latin America, until they fell to the level of African countries.
        5. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 13 New
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          Quote: Monster_Fat
          In the internet I found such, here, the data on the minimum wage

          the minimum wage is about nothing, a comparison can only be on a set of indicators, the price of food, utilities, transportation, medical education, clothing, etc.
      2. Lexus 2 October 2019 14: 46 New
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        Rather, medicine. It was worth the "interrupt."
      3. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 08: 57 New
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        Quote: JD1979
        The product of inadequate pay in the education system.

        explain
        1. JD1979 3 October 2019 09: 19 New
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          0
          Quote: Barmaleyka
          explain

          It is not fashionable to be a rogue, and this is completely normal.
          If the workers are not paid normal money, then their work is not very much in demand.

          Either underestimated a person or just ....
          1. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 20 New
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            what is the relationship with pay in the education system?
            1. JD1979 3 October 2019 09: 32 New
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              0
              Did you study together?
  • Mihail55 2 October 2019 09: 24 New
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    And why, in general, are these very specialties needed? In the country, industry has been ruined in 30 years. We live NOT OUR. A lie on officialdom from all channels ... when will we wake up?
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 50 New
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      We do not have a ditched industry - it is just that the entire industry of Russia is striving for maximum export, since profit from it is many times greater than from sales on the domestic market.
      1. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 54 New
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        Well already voiced about export! It is more profitable for us to sell oil there for currency than in Russia for rubles! lol
        1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 29 New
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          I’m not talking about oil, but about everything else, we don’t export raw materials,
          namely
          1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 00: 36 New
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            Tricky statistics! Exports for July 18th, $ 154,2 billion. Mineral products 56%. 12.7% of exports go to China. In the Netherlands, 9.2%. To Germany 7.7%. In the USA 3.2%. Metals and products from it 9,3%. Machinery, equipment, equipment 3,1%. The share of regions in exports is interesting. Moscow exports 44%. Peter 5.6%. Bashkiria 1%.
            1. Vadim237 3 October 2019 01: 56 New
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              Moscow and the region have a GDP of more than 30 trillion rubles, you think that people come here from all over Russia and the whole world.
              1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 02: 39 New
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                +1
                Judging by the caravans of buses and trains, it is.
              2. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 27 New
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                Quote: Vadim237
                Moscow and the region - GDP of more than 30 trillion rubles

                GDP is nothing at all
              3. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 33 New
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                not because GDP
          2. Barmaleyka 3 October 2019 09: 27 New
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            what percentage is this in total exports? repeat
  • Dmitry Potapov 2 October 2019 09: 27 New
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    +6
    Hard quotas for Gaster, the average salary in the country, preferential housing (at least 15 years old), non-manual trade union, trips to workers' children, raising the prestige of the working specialty, Anyone! And then we even have tractor drivers, bulldozers, a crane operator and are no longer Russians.
    1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 09: 38 New
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      about how) and the rest, supposedly, do not want this specialty in your opinion?) and I will give an example. I have a good friend. simple driver in RJ. bought an apartment for their preferential program. his car is very good. SUV from the passenger compartment. on credit but he is fine. raised two boys. retired in a few years. says normal will be. simple driver. without higher education. I don’t remember that he would complain about life at least once.
      1. Dmitry Potapov 2 October 2019 09: 51 New
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        Believe me, with the current domestic policy, the Machinis Rosiyan will soon be a rarity, by the way GA pilots are keenly aware of the lack of local personnel and the growing competition of the Gaster. I’ve been in construction sites in Moscow since 2003, then there was a predominance of Russians, including from the hinterland, and now come to the construction site (Myakinino business center center is 2 capitals from the MO government, one third are Russians, two-thirds are not!
        1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 10: 01 New
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          Well, let's ban Gaster. Something I strongly doubt that our workers at construction sites will run in droves. the yards will be revenge or something else.
          1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 11: 24 New
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            Quote: carstorm 11
            the yards will be revenge or something else.

            The Russians are just sweeping here, because the Gaster for 12 doesn’t want revenge.
            1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 14: 21 New
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              and? sweeping and good. and I have a family yard from Uzbekistan for several years. good people. and before them three years there was eternal dirt.
              1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 20: 18 New
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                Quote: carstorm 11
                and I have a family yard from Uzbekistan for several years. good people.

                And how much do they get paid?
            2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 15: 58 New
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              +1
              We have the same. Sweep or pre-retirement and retirement age, or alcohol dependent.
          2. Dmitry Potapov 2 October 2019 12: 14 New
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            I'm not talking about a complete ban. Although the situation is such that migrants are beneficial only to private traders but not to the state, there will be more migrants, they will be meaner and bolder, because in the future there will be no alternative to them except for those who are Gaster, the hour is uneven, they will be in police uniform near the metro in Moscow and check big-eyed documents, but that’s what’s going on.
          3. Revival 2 October 2019 14: 37 New
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            They will run and revenge at the norms of sn.
            I hope you do not propose to remove the migrants and to run to their snp?
        2. bar
          bar 2 October 2019 13: 44 New
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          Believe me, with the current domestic policy, the Machinis Rosiyan will soon be a rarity, by the way GA pilots are keenly aware of the lack of local personnel and the growing competition of the Gaster.

          Why are there pilots, we don’t even have our own players, the gopot is worth its weight in gold.
      2. lukewarm 2 October 2019 10: 00 New
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        Quote: carstorm 11
        I don’t remember that he would complain about life at least once.

        The fact of the matter is that the “working specialty” is too general a name denoting belonging to some kind of production and not requiring higher education. And the working specialties are transport and construction and mining and production. So, in all these of our "national estates" (they are natural monopolies) such as GazPorn, Rosneft, the workers you mentioned Russian Railways live very well. What can not be said about engineering. Everything is traditionally bad there. The workers may have something for the individual and somehow come out. In order to reach a more or less worthy sn, the master needs to work overtime and go out on Saturday. About the designers (of which I am, unfortunately) I am generally silent. There is no more unpromising disenfranchised and low-paid caste in our engineering. Therefore, without pleasure I confirm everything voiced by Semin in the video.
        1. Rostovchanin 2 October 2019 10: 06 New
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          That's right, mechanical engineering is in our deep ... our Rostselmash is moving to a three-day working week, because the subsidies have been canceled and now our harvesters will not take.
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 13: 58 New
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            So Rostselmash will further promote its combines on the world market - and our farmers will not take the same foreign ones, it’s a very expensive technique, especially after the ruble has fallen, and spare parts at a cost like on Mercedes AMG — that for Americans, that for Germans, that for Germans The Japanese.
            1. Rostovchanin 2 October 2019 15: 55 New
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              Everything would be fine, but duties are such that our cx / technology is not competitive. At first, it seemed to be supported by subsidies after 2014, and now the owner of Rostselmash, Konstantin Babkin, and the opposition ... well, the government shop and covered up with subsidies to show who the boss is in the house. As a result, from October 7, the plant goes out of production and launches two out of three conveyors; it turns out that 20% of the plant will be without work. This is the growth of production in mechanical engineering (irony). But in a cup of half a trillion dollars. We sit like a dog in the hay. In addition, Mr. Tkachev, the former Minister of Agriculture and the former Governor of Kramnodar Territory, lobbied his "candle factory" in government, for screwdriver assembly of CLAAS agricultural machines in Krasnodar ... also a drop but sensitive for Rostselmash
              1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 22: 18 New
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                "Chairman of the RF CCI Council for Industrial Development and the Competitiveness of the Russian Economy Konstantin Babkin said that Rostselmash encountered problems after revising government support measures in the field of rural mechanization, but optimism remains.
                According to him, the assembly line of the enterprise has been idle for the second month, there are almost no people.
                “Due to the fact that the government is reviewing support measures in the field of rural mechanization, this year peasants buy less harvesters than last year. Despite a good harvest and good grain prices, ”Babkin explains.
                He said that about 500 unsold combines were accumulated at the enterprise, but in October the assembly should be restored
                At the same time, modernization of some workshops is underway, new equipment is being imported. Babkin expects that the product support program will work for another three years, as Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said, but this aspect has not yet been specified in the budget. "
            2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 16: 02 New
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              But the salons of foreign agricultural machinery still seem to be standing, and news about their closure is not yet visible. At least in the spring still stood.
        2. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 10: 16 New
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          Well, according to your own words, it’s the case in a particular industry and not everywhere? So you need to specifically deal with it and not spray it? I understand what you mean, and although I myself have not encountered it, I completely admit it. and perhaps changes in specific cases are much more important to decide. Engage specifically in mechanical engineering. to start. and general phrases of Semin well, this is his business.
          1. lukewarm 2 October 2019 10: 53 New
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            Quote: carstorm 11
            business in a specific industry and not everywhere?

            He gave an example of the industry where I work. But I think that everywhere. For this industry is probably the most numerous in terms of jobs. Factory, factory, factory, factory. Bad, if not oil refining)))) Let's talk about agriculture? Without editorials on grain exports, but "as is"? I thought that builders earn more. I once saw statistics on the region by industry. So here we have Observer 2014 a builder, everything is also bad. More or less probably only for those WHO work. And it's worse every year.
            1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 11: 21 New
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              I’m not a specialist in agriculture) I have a friend who has opened farming, but everything is developing there so I don’t know the results yet)
      3. JD1979 2 October 2019 10: 45 New
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        I would not say that the engineer is such a simple profession))) I have a tribal engineer and they gave him education, if not at the technical university level, then close.
        1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 11: 22 New
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          so I didn’t say simple) it just came up best from my knowledge as an example)
      4. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 11: 00 New
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        Quote: carstorm 11
        I have a good friend. simple driver in RJ. bought an apartment for their preferential program. his car is very good. SUV from the passenger compartment. on credit but he is fine.

        Yeah, but what did those comrades who were optimized fall under, your friend did not say? So let him rejoice that they are not among them.
        1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 11: 19 New
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          But did I ask something about this or did I discuss it at all? I gave an example of a specific person without a tower, which in my environment is very small. if he had been fired, I probably wouldn’t write what you think?))) but everything in life is wonderful with him.
          1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 11: 34 New
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            Quote: carstorm 11
            But did I ask something about this or did I discuss it at all?

            Well, ask him how much they optimized and fired in Russian Railways. And then you have - I see good, but the rest is not. I see foreign cars, but I do not see the worker on the machine of the 60's with a salary of 20 thousand at point blank range. Or a taxi driver with higher education from the space industry.
            1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 12: 43 New
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              you see ... I’m probably saddening you right now, but I have seen so many discussions of optimizations there or changes only at VO. like the people around me are engaged in their life and not solve global problems. and everyone deep in the drum on taxi drivers or machine tools of the 60s. like me actually. there are special heads for this, so let them hurt about this. call it selfishness if you want but my family somehow cares about me and not some taxi driver. which by the way decently earn. so I’m not going to ask this first. we have something to talk about. and secondly, I think it’s violet too.
              1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 13: 05 New
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                Quote: carstorm 11
                which by the way decently earn.

                Yeah, more than in the space industry. And it is not surprising that space is rolling in one place.
                Quote: carstorm 11
                call it selfishness if you want but my family somehow cares

                Until you touch, you will be an egoist, such as my hut from the edge.
                1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 14: 14 New
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                  my hut is not from the edge, but where necessary. my family will not feel better if I throw slogans instead of real affairs. if everything works out for me, it means that my children will grow into specialists who will also benefit. this is the task I am doing. I don’t want to turn into a whiner who in the evening sits under the beer of power. I’ll do something better than that.
                  1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 20: 17 New
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                    Quote: carstorm 11
                    I don’t want to turn into a whiner who in the evening sits under the beer of power.

                    And by the way, I just came, I was engaged in self-employment with a crowbar and a shovel. And what, do you think, does the experience go to me from this?
                    1. carstorm 11 3 October 2019 01: 49 New
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                      Well, everyone decides what to do. if you like it and benefit who I am to discuss it?)
                      1. Mordvin 3 3 October 2019 07: 38 New
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                        Quote: carstorm 11
                        Well, everyone decides what to do. if you like it and benefit who I am to discuss it?)

                        So do not write about beer on the couch. And I don’t like it, only three enterprises where I worked on machines were closed, and 2 of them were already under your beloved president in the 10 years. Yes, here we have heaps of specialists in the guard wiping his pants, or as I look for part-time jobs. Not enough work at all.
                2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 16: 18 New
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                  No. No more than in space. Here recently they have already voiced the average salary for Roscosmos. Almost 400 thousand per person came out according to statistics. Yandex taxi advertised reception of drivers with salaries of up to 120 thousand. In fact, sevens, nines, and dozens go to our taxi. We can either laugh or be surprised. So Yandex taxi gives true information about the income of taxi drivers. Actually, up to 120 thousand. Even if you have gained zero, this is included in the concept of DO. Yandex taxi drivers somehow boycotted about low tariffs, high commissions and, as a result, their low incomes. Nothing achieved. And the boycott was not very massive. You will not really strike when there’s nothing to live on.
                  1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 20: 25 New
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                    Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                    Almost 400 thousand per person came out according to statistics.

                    Yeah, a million to the boss, 30 thousand locksmith, who hammer the sensors with a hammer.
                  2. lukewarm 3 October 2019 08: 36 New
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                    Quote: SOVIET UNION 2
                    So Yandex taxi gives true information about the income of taxi drivers. Really up to 120 thousand

                    I worked in Yandex taxi. Rybinsk, Yaroslavl region. There were not even such salaries. Many stocks, in general, covered themselves. Then, it seems, they started to type again, not only on personal vehicles, but also on rental ones. It was relatively good the first time after the opening, when they paid extra for disadvantageous orders. And the “branded” (pasted over) even paid something like salary. Then it ended and they all ran away from them
                    1. SOVIET UNION 2 3 October 2019 17: 02 New
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                      So I'm talking about that. Salary up to this amount means any salary from zero to the indicated amount. But the people are led to this. If the salary is from such an amount, then from this. Not everyone understands this difference. Who understands, they immediately understand what the catch is. We were neighing at work on this announcement. Therefore, salary-up ads, you can safely discard scam.
                      1. lukewarm 4 October 2019 08: 38 New
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                        Something like this. I wonder who threw a minus? Out of principle? The post is generally neutral, the concrete moment is divorced.
                      2. SOVIET UNION 2 4 October 2019 14: 03 New
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                        Yes, here it seems constantly one or two minus many. if not all comments go. Maybe the moderators slow down the rating.
      5. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 04 New
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        What is going to optimize on the rolling stock in Russian Railways - freight traffic is increasing. And without drivers, Russia will not have robotic diesel locomotives and electric locomotives for a long time to come.
  • Grandfather 2 October 2019 09: 41 New
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    Quote: Dmitry Potapov
    And then we even have tractor drivers, bulldozers, a crane operator and are no longer Russians.

    1. Observer2014 2 October 2019 10: 02 New
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      I support your photo. So it is. I, as a working person, support you. In this photo, the whole essence of the attitude to the own people of the current authorities. We have been driven into poverty by these Gaster workers. There are no jobs for Russian builders. NO! Everywhere there are only strangers. There is deception all around. There is absolutely no work with decent pay. Working specialties are not needed by this government at all. I am a builder myself. It is useless to object to regular trolls. I know that I write firsthand.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    2. AU Ivanov. 2 October 2019 10: 07 New
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      And you yourself will go to the construction site to work? Or sweep yards? I personally do not, and my children will not go either. Even for the money.
      1. Observer2014 2 October 2019 10: 16 New
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        I’m at a construction site and working. Is it bad or embarrassing?
        1. AU Ivanov. 2 October 2019 10: 56 New
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          In young people, manual labor is not quoted. Office, at worst - a control panel. In general, building is a noble profession. Jesus himself was a carpenter, and therefore a builder.
      2. VeteranVSSSR 2 October 2019 21: 33 New
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        Ivanov, as they say in you, in Russia, do not renounce a prison and a bag.
      3. lukewarm 3 October 2019 08: 37 New
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        Quote: AU Ivanov.
        Or sweep yards? I personally do not, and my children will not go either. Even for the money.

        From the bag and from the prison, like a gritsa in Russia .... We jump and jump over a piece of bread and work.
  • rocket757 2 October 2019 09: 29 New
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    Worthy of work - worthy of life! Here it is all hyperbole and parabola!
    Not with bread alone ...
  • Chief Engineer 2 October 2019 09: 32 New
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    Yes, it’s true, I sometimes have to persuade the ved.engineers not to leave, I promise premium increases and all that, but it's still a penny. How to explain to young professionals why the administrator in the beauty salon gets three times as much.
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 07 New
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      Probably because they do not have such costs as yours.
  • Campanella 2 October 2019 09: 58 New
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    People do not need a gas station at all. How many Americans there measured 15 million people?
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 09 New
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      Yes, do not care what they measured out there - go idols? And the gas station in someone's head.
  • kursk87 2 October 2019 10: 20 New
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    Modern capitalism is the enrichment of some at the expense of others. There can be no social equality in the conditions of the capitalist system. In such a system, you cannot be sure about tomorrow
    1. AU Ivanov. 2 October 2019 10: 59 New
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      Modern capitalism is just when the rich share (or are forced to share) with the poor, as in Western Europe. And you described wild capitalism. Which is ours.
      1. Foul skeptic 2 October 2019 11: 32 New
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        Modern capitalism is just when the rich share (or are forced to share) with the poor, as in Western Europe.

        In the same place, conditions were conceived and implemented that shared with the poor (with their voluntary desire) return everything back to the rich, also deciding the underlying issue with the sales market. Like it or not, but all over the world, 10% of the richest are increasing their capital, while the rest are decreasing. It’s just not at such a galloping pace as is happening here.
      2. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 16: 22 New
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        And how to make manual from wild? Who is training?
        1. AU Ivanov. 2 October 2019 19: 05 New
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          In some countries, trade unions crumbled business, in some ruling parties of a social democratic kind.
          1. SOVIET UNION 2 2 October 2019 19: 18 New
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            And somewhere they eliminated the union and party leaders. In my opinion, thanks to the existence of the USSR, they made concessions to the workers. Today the USSR is not and there is an attack on the social rights of citizens.
  • Strashila 2 October 2019 10: 29 New
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    "Working specialties in Russia today is not in fashion", but without them, stop progress and development of the country.
  • yehat 2 October 2019 10: 36 New
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    Quote: Corn
    And workers should receive a decent salary on a par with managers.
    universal impoverished equality - a paradise for degenerative drunkards, is this what you dream about?
    Unmotivated labor, a collapsing economy and an ongoing social crisis, an acute shortage of advanced technologies, high-quality industrial equipment and even banal food, all this is not only in the former USSR, but also still present in the now existing socialist countries.
    I do not like Russia - get out of DPRK or Venezuela, nobody is holding you here.

    another pearl from a person who knows nothing at all, but has the audacity to say
    What, from YouTube and TV burned out? Well, sit on the toilet and pass, why post these excrement everywhere?
    1. AU Ivanov. 2 October 2019 11: 32 New
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      Your opponent is absolutely right: a scoop and a scoop in Africa.
      1. yehat 2 October 2019 12: 14 New
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        scoop where you yourself make a scoop.
        This is not a system, not a state - it is you yourself. If you have a scoop in your head, you have a scoop everywhere.
        Remember how it really was. In the USSR there was a problem with normal toilets, but not everywhere - when people stopped seeing around the scoop, the problem was solved.
        In the USSR there were entire layers of people, whose whole environment they call a scoop means to cruelly insult.
        And finally, the “scoop”, as an opportunity, appeared twice - during the NEP and during the liberal counter-revolution of Khrushchev. This is not a property of socialism or a country of soviets or communism, it is added nonsense.
        1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 12: 47 New
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          so you apply your own advice to yourself) stop seeing the negative one) it’s not everywhere) but about the toilets ... the problem of their stink was not solved in your head no matter how hard you try.
          1. yehat 2 October 2019 14: 10 New
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            where did you see the advice?
            in my opinion, you are incurable, I do not see any benefit from advice to you.
            1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 19: 52 New
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              I'm ordinary) why should I treat me for something?))) I live honestly paying taxes. I work) and if I do not agree with you this does not mean that I am wrong) and vice versa of course) rudeness you know is such a mutual thing.
        2. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 11 New
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          All this is empty - we drove 30 years ago, people became different and everything changed.
          1. yehat 2 October 2019 14: 20 New
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            only the possibilities of globalization, integration and the level of automation have changed
            the rest is all left and many theses from Marx’s capital are very relevant even now.
            1. carstorm 11 2 October 2019 19: 54 New
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              so it's wonderful) you have something to read at home) everyone has their own home reading. and the relevance of the fact that for a hundred years it still couldn’t take root, I'm sorry nonsense.
              1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 22: 20 New
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                And never take root.
              2. yehat 3 October 2019 10: 59 New
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                why could not take root? all transnational corporations live strictly according to Marx!
                That count their bible how to do business.
  • Engineer 2 October 2019 10: 46 New
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    The "prestige" of workers' specialties is a direct consequence of their lack of competitiveness in the general labor market. Who needs a 50 year old welder? If 30-year-olds cook better, their hands don’t tremble, the eyesight of norms can cook at least an hour in an uncomfortable position. The best turners and milling machines in my memory - 30-40 years. After burnout occurs, there is a hack, production standards fall, age takes its toll. Is youth necessary to go there?
    Second moment. The so-called "working" environment. Continuous whining - "nothing will come of it", "bosses of thieves and stupid people", "fish goes out of my head." Is that familiar? And if the only bending machine at the factory, highly qualified by the way, goes into a bout for a week at the height of work on a strategic order, what is it?
    I read very good stuff. Young startups, having won prestigious contests and received very good investments, are creating their own business. In my head a bunch of great ideas, written strategies for staff motivation. And now, bang, disappointment, the workers are doing everything just from under the stick. Without a kick and a mat in any way. They feel weakness, intelligence- and get up. The result - hired "soviet" techdir anti-democratic methods put things in order. The result is all ok. The company of norms, the motivation has gone. Only to hard workers a whip, and to gingerbread men. These are the realities.
    It turns out a vicious circle- working environment-> bestial attitude-> bestial conditions-> working environment. What is there primarily I do not know and do not want to know.
    1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 11: 17 New
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      Quote: Engineer
      Who needs an 50 year old welder? If the 30-year-olds cook better, their hands don’t tremble, the eyesight of the norms can cook for an hour in an uncomfortable position. The best turners and milling machines in my memory are 30-40 years. After burnout occurs, there is a hack, production standards fall, age takes its toll. Is youth necessary to go there?

      And you ask the government why they raise their pension.
      Quote: Engineer
      And if the only bending machine at the factory, highly qualified by the way, goes into a bout for a week at the height of work on a strategic order, what is it?

      And if he gets sick, gets into an accident, will they kill him unexpectedly? What kind of policy is this, not to suggest a replacement? Here you have the whole essence of your defective management.
      1. Engineer 2 October 2019 11: 26 New
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        So we have the policy of all production - to give to the side. No in Russia, then to China.
        I’ll even say more, in our office even prototyping will soon be done in Taiwan. Faster, cheaper, more predictable.
        I shared your point of view until I became a manager myself. I have work for only one binder. Very tightly. Looking for another in reserve? It’s easier for management to not have a binder at all if I find a stable counterparty. Or translate the existing part-time to close the holes.
        Cannibalism, you say? It is the most, in its purest form. These are only realities, social evolution, and I can’t change anything.
        People do not want to understand in any way that maintaining industrial production is less and less profitable. IT, services, buy-and-sell, everything has either a higher margin or much less troublesome.
        1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 11: 41 New
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          Quote: Engineer
          I have work for only one binder.

          To teach a person to be a gibber - just spit. If you have absolutely no more workers, get up at the machine yourself for his salary. And I don’t need to talk about any difficulties there, because I worked on the bending machine.
          Quote: Engineer
          People do not want to understand in any way that maintaining industrial production is less and less profitable.

          Yeah, it’s profitable in China, but not ours. Or maybe something needs to be changed at the conservatory?
          1. Engineer 2 October 2019 11: 46 New
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            Yeah, it’s profitable in China, but not ours. Or maybe something needs to be changed at the conservatory?

            Everyone needs to be changed. My opinion. And the government and managers and hard workers. Only it will not be Russia wink
            1. lukewarm 3 October 2019 08: 48 New
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              I’ve read it - I’m completely sick of living. I’ll go down to the workshop. I’ll talk with the turners "for the prestige of working specialties." As for changing everyone - this is the very crisis when the "top ... bottom ..." You know. The revolutionary situation ... There is one desire - to shy away at partners, so that all are covered with an answer and end this bedlam at once. Sorry, pent.
            2. Campanella 3 October 2019 15: 04 New
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              Great solution))) For whom? On the Varangians? My opinion is that the upper echelon is quite a filthy broom and everything will work out. Cadres decide everything, but you look at the government and you understand this is not cadres, but opportunists.
              1. Engineer 3 October 2019 15: 13 New
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                Unfortunately, it will not work out.
                Cadres decide everything

                Undoubtedly, only the “effective” ones that you hate do not grow on Christmas trees. They left our environment. I looked at the transformation. It was like normal people. He became a deputy from EP and manager. And it went, the further the worse.
                You can dream about Stalin as much as you like, but he will not be. Till all we will not change nothing will change.
                1. Campanella 3 October 2019 16: 49 New
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                  The point is not effective, but in the tasks that the chief commander sets. In Tulun, he could not solve the issue of paying compensation to the victims in 2 of his trips. Such efficiency that the horror takes.
                  Corporate-clan management will not bring to good, at least exchange. Judicial and law enforcement, the legislative branch that draws where they will say there and turn. There is no desire in power that either to change, they are sure of the correctness of the chosen path.
    2. Ross xnumx 2 October 2019 11: 45 New
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      You feel a certain detachment not only from the welded work, but also from the production process itself - therefore, in phrases:
      Quote: Engineer
      Who needs a 50 year old welder?

      And who needs a 70-year-old deputy of the State Duma who has not earned a single labor ruble? Who needs a 76-year-old chairman of the Constitutional Court who can just fall asleep (die) at a meeting? Who needs an elderly woman of incomprehensible merit (known in a narrow circle chosen by the concepts of people) in the Federation Council, if the development of this Federation occurs in the most perverse way?
      Quote: Engineer
      Is youth necessary to go there?

      Young people are not interested in daily bickering with their superiors about providing the employee with protective equipment, observing sanitary and hygienic standards at the workplace and at work, and organizing work process planning. Young people do not want to dive in shit every day, because it is given out as a "homeland" ...
      Quote: Engineer
      The company of norms, the motivation has gone. Only to hard workers a whip, and to gingerbread men. These are the realities.

      There are a number of enterprises in which the worker simply does not need to be customized. Incentives? The production norm and compliance with labor discipline in the conditions of compliance with the collective agreement. But in Russia, a priori, one cannot have a large working class. And you need to forget about large enterprises. For the workers can and demand when there are many, when they are together. And what kind of “manager”, who is not familiar with production processes?
      The realities are only one:
      AUTHORITIES IN THE CAPITALIST STATE IS AFRAID OF THE WORKER ONLY BECAUSE HE (LOST IN SALARY, HOUSING, PROPERTY) MAY BECOME TURNED IN HER Tombstone.
      hi
      1. Engineer 2 October 2019 11: 57 New
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        You feel a certain detachment not only from the welded work, but also from the production process itself.

        Let's get it short, ok?
        For good, you do not argue with what I have stated. Just trying to transfer the problem to a higher level. On the one hand, this is pointless, because we do not affect this level in any way. On the other hand, I want to focus on the organizational and technical side of things, without politics. It is more interesting to me
      2. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 16 New
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        "Who needs a 50-year-old welder?" Can you imagine the need - the truth is the argon welder.
        1. Engineer 2 October 2019 14: 31 New
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          I can only be truly happy for you. But you yourself most likely understand that this case is more likely an exception.
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 33 New
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            That's why after 40 it’s better to take an IP and do welding, repair, manufacturing and other things yourself.
  • evgenyfrasov 2 October 2019 10: 49 New
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    Unfortunately, this is true. I am an installer. I wander on shifts and not from a good life. At home, in the field, wages are low. Maintaining a family with children is very difficult. Moreover, earnings do not grow, or even fall. And the prices are galloping. Many, in an effort to raise their children, lose their families. The attitude of the management of firms towards us, hard workers, is frankly bestial. Because of this, many do their job on falling off. After the 10th year I did not meet any trained specialists. They’re typing on an ad, if only there are crusts, the authenticity of which no one checks. If only there were. This is almost everywhere, with rare exceptions. I have been working since 88th year. Scary for the future.
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 14: 20 New
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      Do not worry, not everyone is bad, but not everyone is fine.
  • Van 16 2 October 2019 10: 53 New
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    And why would they be in fashion? The work is hard, they pay little.
  • Ross xnumx 2 October 2019 11: 21 New
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    Working specialties in Russia are not in fashion today

    And what fashion can there be for a beggarly existence?
    Yesterday I accompanied my mother (84 years old) to the clinic. Instead of three ophthalmologists, one works - two died (according to the visitor). This is some kind of horror. For the entire period of my stay, I saw only one person from the staff of the clinic younger than 30 years old. When a nurse of late retirement age "hobbled" (I apologize for the verb), the first thought was - if only she had reached ... And these are not workers ... These are specialists who are called upon to protect our (population) health.
    I'm not talking about that Putin’s bike about creating 25 highly qualified jobs, because at the presentation of the gas pipe coating it was stated that this production gave 000 jobs (maybe not all 000 have a highly qualified profile). It is necessary to calculate how many such enterprises need to be put into operation for the remaining 300 days of reign ... belay
    Only 69 enterprises a day !!! fellow fellow
    1. Mordvin 3 2 October 2019 11: 48 New
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      Quote: ROSS 42
      Yesterday I accompanied my mother (84 of the year) to the clinic. Instead of three ophthalmologists, one works - two died (according to the visitor).

      My weeks and a half ago they should have been discharged, after an operation on the eyes, and there still, it only got worse.
      Quote: ROSS 42
      When a nurse of late retirement age "hobbled" (I apologize for the verb), the first thought was - just to get it.

      We have one such "reached." To the loony bin. A guy banged his death ax with an ax.
    2. lukewarm 3 October 2019 08: 52 New
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      Quote: ROSS 42
      Only 69 enterprises a day !!!

      Tortured "guarantor" of the ribbon cut. HE IS EVERYWHERE!
  • Mihail55 2 October 2019 12: 11 New
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    Quote: Engineer
    The best turners and milling machines in my memory - 30-40 years. After burnout occurs, there is a hack, production standards fall, age takes its toll. Is youth necessary to go there?

    You shouldn’t be so. After 40 years, the most professional skill! The fact that the young one will study and comprehend already experienced from half a kick will do. Everything in his bedside table is already jumbled, for each squiggle his bait. And in general, in engineering, where I work by now, there is a kind of symbiosis between the worker and the engineer. Often the worker himself is simply obliged to show intellectual quickness ... write a program ... come up with a tool ... think of a device, etc. And most importantly, a very competent engineer simply, for his own good, must work with his hands. So, I went through this ... was both that and that ... and I do not regret. I can fulfill and teach an unexperienced worker in my field. Unfortunately, current concepts do not imply the reproduction of LITERATURE workers. Why, still for sale! According to Gref, we have a lot of EXTRA people ... so we'll get by with the "chosen ones" ...
    1. Engineer 2 October 2019 12: 25 New
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      Well, since you're in the topic, then honestly, which of the 40+ CNC nicknames? Sometimes there are of course, but usually so-so. At best, he only heard about CAM programs.
      The best are 26-33 years old. Everything is interesting, everything is new. All with higher education. The real elite. The POwer Mill themselves download, grunt themselves. Before work, they will find a guide on the Internet, they will specify cutting modes. It’s necessary caprolon, fiberglass or something else relatively exotic, they will find on YouTube. If in English, I was asked to translate key points. Themselves with the catalog to the technologists come up - poke their nose into the desired cutter. Yes, and they do not need a technologist. Only this is no longer the familiar working class.
      50-year-olds are stretching themselves, while they say that they need a mandrel or something else. Young growth is already at work. I broke the cutter, ruined two blanks, but in 80% of cases I got it.
      Old men sit on carousel, grinding, etc. Specialized, narrow areas
      1. Monster_Fat 2 October 2019 12: 58 New
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        The POwer Mill themselves download, grunt themselves. Before work, they will find a guide on the Internet, they will specify cutting modes. It’s necessary caprolon, fiberglass or something else relatively exotic, they will find on YouTube. If in English, I was asked to translate key points. Themselves with the catalog to the technologists come up - poke their nose into the desired cutter. Yes, and they do not need a technologist.

        It's funny The enterprise is described in which the process control is completely absent (everyone is torn from each other (the turner runs to the technologist, and not vice versa), the turner is not provided with technological maps and programs (they themselves “crack” what they need), IT engineers do not reprogram the machines and do not follow software updates, etc. (on Youtube who needs to look for themselves, how and what wassat ), etc. And by the way, a criminal offense is also committed there - "quacking" of legal software and its illegal use in production. yes This is a typical Russian “production” with its typical feature-the lack of process control (thanks to “successful managers”), which is “corrected” by the “super-wide” profile of the working staff, emergency work, overstrain in the work process, etc., and which is presented here, judging all over, a “successful manger” as an “example." Of course, he has 50-year-old turners who remember what order was and how everything was organized at the "Soviet enterprises" and demand the same order and the same organization even now, they will not be quoted - he needs a turner - and the Swiss and a reaper and a dude-igrets "- a specialist" over a wide profile "(and even a hacker) so that he would replace a person with so much 3 minimum (technologist, software engineer, site manager, etc.) and would sit on a low salary , demanding nothing from the "employer" - of course, it is difficult to find such ones. The "West" with its emphasis on "narrow specialization" is resting and nervously smoking aside .... laughing love
        1. Engineer 2 October 2019 13: 08 New
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          That is how the modern Russian enterprise is described. Yes, and with growth diseases.
          In conditions when all investments in equipment are ahead of the availability of available specialists. Therefore, the IT engineer can not cope, and the second is not and never will be.
          There is a fact - youth is doing more. Only these young people are advanced and want to work their own way. And leadership forgives them because they work and give the result right now. And they don’t whine how bad everything is. Either such youth or none, there are no others, because there is no interest in this topic.
          And the second fact, there will be no debugged "Soviet" system. Why? separate topic
          About legal software, again a separate song, everyone survives as best he can.
          That's an example. Not positive, not negative, but 100% real. Someone funny
          1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 35 New
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            “Exactly so, the modern Russian enterprise is described” - Far from modern.
            1. Engineer 2 October 2019 18: 36 New
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              four years old, young isho)
        2. Engineer 2 October 2019 13: 40 New
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          he needs a turner- “and a Swiss and a reaper and a dude-player” - a “specialist of a very wide profile” (and even a hacker) to replace a person with such a minimum of 3 (technologist, software engineer, site manager, etc. .) and would sit on a low salary, not demanding anything from the "employer" - naturally, it is difficult to find such.

          Two guys of "wide profile" about whom it is a question less than 100 thousand do not receive on hands. For them, their own system of premiums. Maybe 150 thousand a month to be. The founders didn’t like it at first, but the technical director with bones lay down.
          1. Monster_Fat 2 October 2019 13: 54 New
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            Why wouldn’t he go “bones” if these two people not only substitute a few people from the technological process, but also do part of the work of this so-called “technical director” for organizing and managing the production process and commissioning and the use of equipment .... and this, with the so-called "high salary", which actually corresponds to the salary of an "ice cream man in Brownsville (Texas)" .... yes
            1. Engineer 2 October 2019 14: 02 New
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              and this, with the so-called "high salary," which actually corresponds to the salary of an "ice cream man in Brownsville (Texas)"


              Almost all of our salaries are understated. Especially in the industrial field. There is generally an unspoken salary agreement between employers. We monitor HH, we look at the average sentence and do not assign it above it. And the average is formed by the same goons who do not want to motivate employees. This is a well-known fact.
              but those two get 2-3 times higher than their colleagues. And they came green from Fablab
              And the technical director, among other things, carried out certification of the enterprise for quality in the ISO system and found several important orders. But I predict that there will be a grumbling, again, "people are not doing their own thing"
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Alexander Ra 2 October 2019 21: 04 New
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        The best are 26-33 years old. ... real elite

        You have some unhealthy spell and a narrow perception - to whom over 40 - those worthless ballast. If you do not understand the prices of elders, then you haven’t been involved in complex and serious ones. Continuity is empty for you, have not grown to this scale. Emphasize 26-33-year-olds, a place with 100-150 tr, so there are 2-3 million per day with older. This is actually a systemic problem at the national level - deindustrialization is artificially supported with the lowering of education, with the abolition of working professions, with the difficulty of finding work not only for the older but also for the young. Admiration for the salaries of your "best" can be fleeting.
        “... a fact - there will be no well-functioning“ Soviet ”system” ... “young people are advanced and want to work their own way” ... “everyone survives as he can” - in your views you feel the pleasure of being in a “muddy water”. There are times when mass antisocial behavior is beneficial, but it cannot last long, debugging the system will be required. And by the way, in our conditions, not 26-year-olds will be engaged in debugging.
        1. Engineer 2 October 2019 22: 25 New
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          You absolutely did not understand my idea.
          40+ may be good workers, but as they engage in classic jobs, they begin to experience the age of decline.
          This is actually a systemic problem at the national level - deindustrialization is artificially supported with the lowering of education, with the abolition of working professions, with the difficulty of finding work not only for the older but also for the young.

          I do not know artificially or naturally. My opinion is to be a welder, locksmith, turner, etc. ungrateful, underpaid and unpromising work. Being an engineer in industry is also so-so fun, if you have a choice, then you do not need to choose it in any case. That's all.
          1. Vadim237 3 October 2019 12: 21 New
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            "40+ may be good workers, but as those engaged in classic jobs, they begin to experience the age of recession." That’s why you need to take a private entrepreneur for this - you offer services yourself, work for a company or a company - it will be easier for them, since all taxes will be paid by the worker himself.
            1. Engineer 3 October 2019 12: 30 New
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              SAM was an SP for two years. There are pros and cons. THEN thickly empty.
              Familiar in IP status with his son trimmed a bar in the loft style. In three months of shock work they took a million. The interior designer for four sections of the work on the selection of decor and visualization of this bar took 120 thousand. The men were happy, rested and that’s all, there are no large orders yet. And the designer did the “hack” during working hours, which she was paid separately. That's it.
              Well, people with such a psychology: "I looked after customers, gained contacts, earned a reputation, now I can be a minority."
  • bar
    bar 2 October 2019 13: 06 New
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    our country is currently experiencing an acute shortage of skilled workers

    So I would not be so categorical. Qualified workers need appropriate jobs in their respective enterprises. And where do we have these enterprises? For example, how many have opened over the past 10 years? And how many of them were closed only in our region, I know ...
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 40 New
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      According to my estimates, about 20000 different and different - in all spheres of the CX industry and other things.
      1. bar
        bar 2 October 2019 19: 00 New
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        I'm not talking about all sorts of different ones, but about those that require precisely skilled workers and specialists. For example, how many enterprises out of these 20000 different ones require CNC machine operators, gear cutters, borers, instrumentation and automation specialists, adjusters and repairmen of automatic lines?
        1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 22: 22 New
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          Look for such extensive information on the Internet throughout Russia.
  • ultra 2 October 2019 14: 00 New
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    Quote: Sunflower
    At the Red Hammer factory, where I worked, in

    Grozny Red Hammer?
  • d.olegov44 2 October 2019 14: 42 New
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    Quote: Uncle Lee
    Well done Semin! Already the second burning question was highlighted in VO!


    Why did "Well done Semin" take his wife to the USA and his child is an American citizen by birth right? Does Mr. Semin want to return his family from the USA to Russia first, and only then to teach us patriotism and socialist values?
    1. Vadim237 2 October 2019 18: 41 New
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      And why is the Evo family in the United States so good.
  • nikvic46 3 October 2019 07: 22 New
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    Previously, graduates of the College. Bauman was valued at the "weight of gold". One detail guarded me. Great attention to physical education. I have concerns that in the future, according to a simplified scheme, athletes will be accepted into this educational institution. Previously, they were accepted to humanitarian universities.
    1. lukewarm 3 October 2019 08: 59 New
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      Quote: nikvic46
      Great attention to physical education. I have concerns

      Inattentively listened. Well physo as such. There were LECTURES on FIZO !!!!! Exactly for rickety nerds. What athletes are there!