Military Review

Hitler Kaput or Hitler the Winner. Alternative history as a literary genre

192
For the prophecy was never uttered according to the will of man, but the holy men of God spoke it, being moved by the Holy Spirit.
Second Epistle of Peter 1: 21



Alternative история World War II. People have always been interested in knowing what would have happened if ... Such is the property of human imagination. What would happen if you on the 13 on Friday of the 2013 of the year would turn left and not right along the street, as you did in reality ... Maybe that’s where the car would hit you, or maybe the girl of your dreams would be waiting for you there. What would happen if Alexander the Great did not die in Babylon, and Julius Caesar listened to the voice of reason and on the day of March id would not go to the Senate ?! Francis I won the battle of Pavia, and the Marne taxis stalled due to heavy rain? Finally, what would happen if Hitler took Moscow and the Axis powers won in World War II?

Hitler Kaput or Hitler the Winner. Alternative history as a literary genre

Death is in the air. Dornier-217 are flying on a mission. Bundesarchive, Germany


One publisher explained to me popularly which books are now especially priced. About the change of history and fellow travelers. So, this: a special commando (otherwise, where did he get the knowledge of karate and muscle tuber techniques?) Falls into a temporary “hole” and ends up ... in ancient Rome, where he sleeps with Cleopatra, becomes the great leader of the Slavs and, creating a new Slavic empire, returns back where he sees a monument to himself!


There are a lot of books on the alternative history of World War II. Among them are multivolume studies.


However, another theme is no less popular: the victory in the Second World War of the countries of the Nazi bloc (Axis: Rome - Berlin - Tokyo) and, above all, of course, Nazi Germany and the Japanese Empire. There is evidence from the Alternate History Month that the victory of these two countries (Italy, as always, few people are interested in) is most often used in works in English on alternative history. The second popular topic, especially in the United States, is the victory of the southerners in the Civil War between the North and the South. The third most popular is the theme of the revolution in Russia and the change in the outcome of the First World War. The German newspaper Die Welt believes that at least two-thirds of all alternative historical fiction literature is devoted to the victory of the Third Reich in the war.


What a good view from the Me-110 cockpit. Bundesarchive, Germany


And the most interesting thing is that this topic was born even before the guns really rumbled on the battlefields, that's even how! It turns out that even when fascism and Nazism in Europe were already widespread, but still not dominated, there appeared works both in the field of fiction and in journalism, where the Second World War was not only predicted, but it was called as its participants those countries which subsequently just had to really fight. That is, in fact, it was futurological work, and many of the predictions of their authors were subsequently fully justified.


Among the books on the alternative history of the Second World War there are fiction and serious scientific research, and books ... written in the form of a novel, but with the involvement of archival materials and memoirs.


In particular, the Pacific War in the 20th Century book was dedicated to the theme of the war in the Pacific. It was written by our compatriot-emigrant, Nikolai Golovin, professor at the Russian University of History and Philology at Paris University, who co-authored with Admiral Alexander Bubnov. In the 1922 year it was published in New York and London, then in the 1924 in Prague, and finally in the 1925 year it was printed even in Moscow along with a preface written by Karl Radek.


General Guderian and the "big secret" of World War II - Enigima cryptographic machine. Bundesarchive, Germany


In it, the authors analyzed the prospects for military confrontation between the United States and Japan in the Pacific Ocean and made a curious conclusion about the inevitability of the victories of the latter at the initial stage of the war. They considered Great Britain both ... a possible ally of Japan and a potential ally of the USA, depending on the current situation.


Some authors take this topic very seriously ...


The British philosopher and science-fiction writer Olaf Stapledon in the 1930 year wrote the novel "The Last and First People" in which the history of mankind was traced for ... two billion years! During this time, as many as 18 biological species of people are replaced on the planet, including reptilian people (after all, nothing is new under the Moon!) And an equally amazing number of terrestrial civilizations. And what’s interesting, the question there at the beginning is about the future German-Soviet war, although it would seem, why write about the war between the USSR and Germany in the 1930 year? Yes, there were absolutely no prerequisites for her then. There was Rapallo, there was trade ... but here you go ... he wrote this.


The Germans in Paris. Famous place, right? Bundesarchive, Germany


The book talks about how Soviet Russia, as a result of NEP, is becoming more and more dependent on the United States, and although communist rhetoric is still preserved in it, it actually turns into their economic appendage. Tensions are growing between Russia and Europe, as the European Confederation fears that, following the complete submission of Russia's resources to US monopolies, the Americans will also want to dominate Europe.


The titles of some books are pretty ... entertaining!


The reason for the war is the publication in Germany of a book in which the physiognomy of the Russian face is described. as containing monkeys and even more - inhuman traits. Moscow demands a ban on this book, Berlin talks about freedom of speech and neither side is inferior to the other. As a result, chemical bombs fall on the main cities of Russia and Germany. From the Black Sea to the Baltic Sea, all living things die, not only people, but even animals and plants. The Confederation seems to be winning, but the poisonous gases are carried by the wind and cause irreparable damage to the winners.


Tankers, most likely, are still Germans. But the tank is the Czech 38 (t). Bundesarchive, Germany


As a result, the United States is saving in Europe what can still be saved there, but ... they are taking it into their own hands. Russia has essentially been destroyed, but ... its Russian spirit, culture and, in particular, the ideas of Bolshevism are being adopted by China, which is rising, meanwhile, although America is trying to destroy it with all its might. That is, presumably, their clash is just around the corner!


The alternative in the books of different authors is very different ...


In 1934 in London, a book was published by the Soviet intelligence agent, an activist of the German Communist Party, Semyon Rostovsky, who called himself the pseudonym Ernst Henry. It was called “Hitler over Russia?” And was a continuation of the book “Hitler over Europe?” In it he described the attack of the Third Reich on the Soviet Union. Moreover, the direct cause of this event, as he believed, was the destruction by Hitler of Ernst Rem 30 June 1934 year. Events such as the Anschluss of Germany and Austria and the ensuing dismemberment of Czechoslovakia were predicted. True, in his opinion, the Japanese Kwantung army had to support the Germans in their campaign against Soviet Russia, and not Italy, but ... England! And Poland, too, is not the victim of the first strike of the Nazis, but one more ally of Germany, together with the Baltic countries. He did not foresee the fact that they would become Soviet. But Turkey, he is an ally of the USSR, clearly in memory of friendly relations in the era of Kemal Ataturk, and victory over Germany is achieved as a result of ... the uprising of the German proletariat, which followed after the attacks of Soviet heavy bombers on German cities. The book was also translated into Russian and published in the USSR in the 1938 year.


Negroes are soldiers of the French army. For them, the war is already over! Bundesarchive, Germany


In the 1937 dystopian novel of the year “Swastika Night” (or “Long Night”), British feminist Catherine Berdekin (pseudonym Murray Constantine) also described the future victory of Germany and Japan. The action in the novel takes place seven hundred years after their victory in the "Twenty Years War" of the establishment of the Nazi dictatorship. The USSR was conquered by Germany to the Urals, the Japanese own the territory of the USA, Australia and again the USSR also before the Urals, however both superpowers continue to fight among themselves, although without hope of success, since their forces are equal. But then it’s quite curious: in the world described by Katherine, homosexuality and outspoken, woman-hating flourish, Christians are marginalized, Jews, of course, completely destroyed. Women are deprived of civil rights, and childbearing is despised. True, the consequences of this are quite predictable - the population of both superpowers is rapidly declining.


Here is a book, "Hitler the Victorious," about which a dispute arose once on VO. As you can see, she even has a whole team of authors and each has its own point of view on some event


An interesting author’s move: Hitler is worshiped there as a blond Aryan god, and when the main character accidentally sees a photograph of Hitler who really existed, he is shocked. True, they kill him there, but he still manages to tell the son the truth, and there is hope that the "long night" will end. By the way, now it becomes clear where George Orwell borrowed many of the plot moves from his novel “1984”. Why come up with something new when a lot of interesting things were invented before you. You just need to skillfully rewrite it!


"Army mallet" in a combat position. Bundesarchive, Germany


And here is the novel of the Austrian emigrant Erwin Lessner, “Illusory victory. The Fourth Reich: 1945–1960 ”is interesting primarily because it was written by him during the war, and was published in 1944, and it described ... the revival of German fascism after the victory of the Allies in World War II. Like, yes, the Allies won, Germany was defeated, but then the Nazis slowly but surely regained power. The Fourth Reich arises, led by the new Fuhrer, and the German Navy is not inferior in 1951 the fleet USA. Four years later, Europe and Russia became German colonies - they never recovered from the previous war, and in 1960 Germany again attacked Britain. History will repeat itself!

It does not make sense to talk about the novel by J. Orwell, although the theme of a new war is mentioned there, but it is worth mentioning the book of Jean-Francois Tiriar, published in 1975. This is not a novel, but the work of a political scientist, but it is interesting for its focus. Perhaps he was the first to indicate that the main enemy of Europe is not the USSR, but ... the United States and quite substantiated this!

She wrote that “Hitler did not lose the war in Russia, he lost it the very day that he agreed to“ Spanish neutrality ”(and abandoned Gibraltar) and did not attach due importance to the North African Front. The Reich was supposed to get victory in the Mediterranean Sea ... ”


Steel sharks of Grand Admiral Doenitz. Submarine U-37. Bundesarchive, Germany


Hitler's other decisive mistake was the Germanization of conquered lands, where the Germans would have to come as liberators! Moreover, the author placed special hopes on sovietization, as an essentially international concept, which should lead to the mutual integration of Western culture and the new culture of Russia. And by the way, isn’t it that the West has adopted a lot of what we traditionally regard as “the gains of socialism”? And is it not the integration of our achievements in the social sphere into the culture of Western Europe that is more backward in this respect, which as a result made an obvious step forward ?! But Tiriar considered Islam and China more likely as geopolitical opponents of the new Europe.

In 1995, writer and military historian Kenneth Maxi released Hitler's Lost Opportunities in which he identified several bifurcation points when his decision (or not accepted!) Decisively affected the fate of the Reich.

In one story, he shares Europe with the USSR, captures Great Britain and establishes a puppet government in it, and World War II essentially has no place in history at all.


"Business before pleasure". German submariners go ashore. Bundesarchive, Germany


In general, the points of bifurcation, that is, the exceptional turning points of history, have always attracted the special attention of researchers. After all, human society is a construction exclusively inert and it is extremely difficult to turn its development in a different direction. But it is possible, occasionally, and due to a coincidence. What would happen if Ravalyak did not kill Henry IV, and Lenin, diving in the village of Kokushkino, drowned in the 1880 year? Interesting, right? And most importantly - it’s quite possible, that's what. And here is a book by the professor of military history and BBC war correspondent Eric Durshmid, “Victories that might not have happened”, launched in 1999, and it is dedicated to the “theme of His Majesty the occasion”. So he considers the possibility of a complete defeat of the British in Dunkirk in May 1940; and what would happen if the Bismarck battleship were not sunk; what significance would be only one month, if Hitler had started a company against the USSR on 22 in May, and Sorge would not have warned Moscow about the change in the vector of Japanese aggression, which would have prevented Siberian divisions from being transferred from east to west in a timely manner.


Wilhelmshaven. "A tired submarine is approaching the pier." Bundesarchive, Germany


For the British, the Near and Middle East was always of great importance. Therefore, it is not surprising that many British alternativeists pay close attention to this particular theater of operations. For example, according to John Keegan, the Barbarossa plan was Hitler's worst choice. Where it would be better to seize the Levant and the Middle East. After all, there was raw materials that he so lacked. And then he had a formal reason: on 3 on April 1941, a coup d'etat took place in Iraq and Rashid Ali, who came to power, turned to Germany specifically for help. Hitler could only help ...

Использованная литература:
1. Stapledon, O. The Last and First People: A History of the Near and Far Future. SPb., M .: ACT, Ermak, 2004.
2. Henry, E. Hitler v. USSR. The upcoming battle between the fascist and socialist armies. M .: State socio-economic publishing house, 1938.
3. Tiryar, J. Euro-Soviet Empire from Vladivostok to Dublin. “Elements”, No. 1, 1992.
4. Maxi, K., Missed Opportunities of Hitler / Transl. and holes ed. S. Pereslegin. M., St. Petersburg: AST, Terra Fantastic, 2000.
5. Durshmid, E. Victory, which could not have been. How blind chance and stupidity changed history = The Hinge Factor (1999) / Per. M. Pchelintseva. M., St. Petersburg: AST, Terra Fantastic, 2002.


To be continued ...
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  1. Amateur
    Amateur 2 October 2019 15: 18
    0
    If the Author reads "Blue Salo" by V. Sorokin (1999, also an alternative story) and does not vomit at the same time, then he can write soooooooooo, "how beautiful it is." wassat
    1. Alceers
      Alceers 2 October 2019 22: 06
      +1
      Caliber will not vomit. He himself was not weak in this field. To give birth to evil libels on our history, I mean. He also has similar opuses with wet dreams about how Hitler took Moscow and how he would now nod in Bavarian. I even want his scent to fail and publish "it" here. To ban him forever ...
      1. 1970mk
        1970mk 4 October 2019 03: 30
        0
        Quote: Alceers
        evil libel on our story

        Sorry ... but do not answer the question - is it true or an alternative story?
        "Poland fell and divided ... World War II has begun! Germany attacks France. The French Armed Forces are defeated. Paris is taken. On this occasion, Comrade Molotov summons the German ambassador to officially express his admiration for the victories of the German Armed Forces. In three days France surrenders .. "
  2. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 2 October 2019 15: 19
    +2
    And then he had a formal reason: on April 3, 1941, a coup d'etat took place in Iraq and Rashid Ali, who came to power, turned to Germany with a request for help. Hitler could only help ...
    Halder in his notes several times mentions Iraqi affairs. Sent some one-time aircraft
  3. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 2 October 2019 15: 19
    +5
    And then he had a formal reason: on April 3, 1941, a coup d'etat took place in Iraq and Rashid Ali, who came to power, turned to Germany with a request for help. Hitler could only help ...
    Halder mentions Iraqi affairs several times in his notes. They sent there one-time planes with weapons ... another little thing, but no more. The British army quickly restored order there. To get to Iraq, the Reich needed a "corridor", and there was none. The Germans were stuck in North Africa, it was impossible to approach the strait, and communications were under constant pressure. It was unrealistic to send a serious expedition to Iraq, and it made no sense to send small forces.
    They and the Indians / Aryan colleagues /// called for the overthrow of the British colonial slavery, but there were no opportunities.
    P.S. Hitler
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 2 October 2019 15: 32
      +6
      P.S. Hitler and Kalash is certainly something. Does anyone read ...)))

      This is StG - SturmGever ..
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 2 October 2019 15: 37
        +2
        yes! I then carefully reviewed the cover and erased that moment! Thank you for your promptness!
        Instead, I wanted to write about the "Sphere" helmet, but did not have time. Comical, simple, it looks ... still, powerful biceps would be drawn)))
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 2 October 2019 15: 57
          +6
          Illustrators sometimes twist the authors of the books themselves with their "pictures"!
          One of the covers depicted a pilot with an MP-5, and according to the plot, one of the heroes was running through the Balkan Mountains from the Bizon submarine! And the author of the work also invented the violent seizure of Bulgaria and the Bulgarian partisans fighting against the puppet pro-American regime!
          1. Pane Kohanku
            Pane Kohanku 2 October 2019 16: 22
            +5
            One of the covers depicted a pilot with an MP-5

            "Fighters" .. I remember, I remember, Alexei .. A fighter of the late 90s. And the nickname of this hero was "Corsair". wink
            And the author of the work also came up with the power capture of Bulgaria and the Bulgarian partisans fighting against the pro-American puppet regime!

            there also captured Albania, EMNIP. And the Albanians with the Bulgarians in the same ranks fought in the partisan detachment against the Yankees and those who joined them. laughing
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 2 October 2019 16: 39
              +4
              It is the most! And the brave Serbian pilots, with their kamikaze-style attack, severely damaged the command ship, before sending an entire American cruiser to the bottom!
              1. Pane Kohanku
                Pane Kohanku 2 October 2019 17: 03
                +3
                before sending a whole American cruiser to the bottom!

                from whose crew a cunning Chinese man survived who was serious about his own safety, so he had prepared everything in advance for his own evacuation .... laughing
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 2 October 2019 17: 11
                  +2
                  Chin Lo, who had once again taken his place, felt the ship's body flinch, and heard a muffled rumble of launching rockets. To himself, he noted that since real launches began, it means that the alarm is really not training. He remembered the conversation with the lieutenant and, with the same calm expression, took a few steps forward, quickly looked around — everything was empty, everything was in place — and he pulled off the waterproof shutter in the technical shaft, which, as he knew, led almost to the very foot of the mast. There were staples inside the shaft, and the Chinese quickly checked to see if he could climb the shaft in a life jacket. For a tall Yankee, this would be difficult, but the feeble Chin had enough space. Confident of this, he returned to the fire extinguishers and froze in anticipation.
                  Several self-inflating life rafts were gradually filled with those few sailors who managed to jump overboard or were dropped there by an explosion. To one of the rafts, Chin Lo rowed leisurely in his orange life vest, and his face was still impassive.

                  So for sure - Chin Luo. The most unflappable of the entire cruiser crew.
            2. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny 2 October 2019 17: 39
              +2
              "Fighters. Torn sky." This is the full name. There is still a continuation.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 2 October 2019 17: 51
                +3
                Tell me the name of the sequel! hi
                1. frog
                  frog 2 October 2019 22: 23
                  +2
                  EMNIP, Russian turn
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 2 October 2019 22: 32
                    +1
                    hi Thank. I'll find it! hi
                    1. frog
                      frog 2 October 2019 22: 43
                      +2
                      Duc, not at all))) Why can't a good man))))
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 2 October 2019 23: 28
                        +4
                        "Good people" do not have 6 "penalties" and the thunderstorm of "eternal ban"! laughing drinks hi
                      2. frog
                        frog 3 October 2019 15: 27
                        +1
                        Yes how to say feel With these .... scriptings I am also a little familiar wink
                        Yes, and in life ...... everything also happens))) hi
                2. Okolotochny
                  Okolotochny 3 October 2019 12: 13
                  0
                  I don’t remember the name - the plot is a test and premiere of a new aircraft designed according to the "Flying Wing" type.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 3 October 2019 14: 41
                    +1
                    Thank you Already prompted - Russian turn. Comrade frog (Dmitry) suggested.
          2. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 2 October 2019 16: 36
            +4
            To be honest, when I was still buying books, I always bypassed the shelf with "militants". They have the brightest covers, but the content is clearly not for my wounded psyche))). I like military memoirs better. "Alternative" is a little different, but also "into the furnace!", Although many like such books and have nothing against it.
            Although once there was a moment when I was in the hospital. And for the sake of boredom, I began to read everything that was in the ward. All sorts of criminal newspapers with beauties and revolvers on the front page, etc ... So there was such a novel in a thin cover --- where a former GRU major was saving a journalist from the hands of the Mafia. I don't even remember the plot. But it stuck in my memory how he got from Chelyabinsk to Moscow ... he was abruptly set up and put on the all-Russian wanted list, so he immediately dismissed the trains or rides. He ran through the forests and ravines as taught. I put on my old camouflage and go! Barely had time. The main bandit brought a pistol to the journalist's temple and then the major already realized that "it's time!" and ran out from behind a tree to chop up the Mafia. Complete nonsense, of course, but exciting.
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 2 October 2019 16: 55
              +7
              In a hospital bed from boredom and Angelica with the angels you will begin to read - if there is no other reading matter! drinks
              1. Barmaleyka
                Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 05
                0
                Quote: hohol95
                and Angelica and the angels will begin to read - if there is no other reading matter!

                not worse than the musketeers, the same eggs are only in profile and are not written in French, but in Russian and French
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 2 October 2019 23: 26
                  +2
                  Dear Vladimir! If you lie on a bed for a month you will be glad to almost any reading. hi
            2. hohol95
              hohol95 2 October 2019 17: 02
              +2
              Jonathan Ulysses -
              “The adventurer is not such a bad characterization at all,” Kosinski smiled. - I liked this guy. He was a racer, firefighter, police officer, circus artist, acrobat, stunt performer. In China, he studied sanchin-do, in Japan - karate, boxing - in Thailand. He participated in a balloon trip around the world, crossed the English Channel alone, hunted sharks, parachuted from Kilimanjaro and so on.
              “But the main thing,” said Neran, the head of the expedition, who nodded at every word, “that he is a climber from God.”
              As for his spiritual qualities ... I still regret that he left the detachment.

              Golovachev Vasily Vasilievich "Preserve of Death"
          3. frog
            frog 2 October 2019 22: 20
            +3
            A lot has been written on this topic, the same "Broken Sky". Here are just logic and common sense, there were three coins for a penny and a half. About illustrators is an eternal topic, like the pyramids in Giza ...
    2. Prometheus
      Prometheus 3 October 2019 09: 37
      0
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      The Reich needed a "corridor", but it was not.

      The corridor was just the same - French mandate Syria + Lebanon. Where he commanded the troops, Henri Dentz, one of the most pro-German French generals. In particular, the Vichy gave Axis a certain amount of military cargo, which in that Syria was quite stocked. Equipment and aircraft for rebel Iraq were also thrown through it.

      Another thing is that
      Quote: Thunderbolt
      The Germans were stuck in North Africa, there was no way to approach the strait, and communications were under constant pressure.
      yes. Plus preparation for the invasion of the USSR. The forces were not enough.
  4. Van 16
    Van 16 2 October 2019 15: 23
    +9
    Judging by Flibusta, over the past few years, one of the most popular topics about the populist sounds like "To save the USSR". Omitting their artistic merit, the constant hitting the top of such books makes you think and says a lot.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 06
      +2
      Quote: Van 16
      one of the most popular topics about the populist sounds like "Save the USSR"

      another period of the First World War and the Russo-Japanese War
      1. Van 16
        Van 16 3 October 2019 04: 41
        +1
        Yes, that too. It seems to me that one of the most successful books in this genre was written about this period. I mean the series "Admiral General" by Zlotnikov. The opinion is subjective, any objections are accepted hi
  5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 15: 29
    +18
    Nuuu, in the field of books-althistories who just did not mark :) Even me :) Of course, one thing - in order to write a good alternative, you must perfectly master the story.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 2 October 2019 15: 38
      +6
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      one must master the history perfectly.

      What in reality is not observed.
    2. Lexus
      Lexus 2 October 2019 15: 52
      +3
      Andrey, you are using quite reliable information and "trying on" real possible scenarios to facts, not fairy tales. So nothing criminal)
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 16: 38
        +4
        Quote: lexus
        So nothing criminal)

        Thank you!
    3. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 2 October 2019 16: 01
      +8
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      One thing is certain - in order to write a good alternative, one must perfectly master the story.

      Yeah ... and at least a little to understand what you are writing about. And then the parishioners, pulling out the complete data from memory to create something post-war, cause only nervous laughter.
      As they joked at one of the forums in order to introduce at least some product from the 60s in the past, a dude must first remember the KD and TD carriage on the product itself (with all change sheets smile ), and then also the composition of such cars for used materials and machines. And then another same number of compositions for materials and machines for each of the components that make up the product. For the problems will begin already at the material stage - with the same steel.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 16: 46
        +5
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Yeah ... and at least a little to understand what you are writing about.

        Without any doubt! drinks
        Quote: Alexey RA
        As they joked at one of the forums in order to introduce a product from at least 60's in the past, a dude must first remember the KD and TD wagon for the product itself (with all change sheets smile), and then the composition of such wagons for the materials used and machine tools. And then

        Truly so. That is why, being, on the one hand, an adherent of altistory, I do not like and practically do not read popanish literature. With a few exceptions - however, this exception is made up of books where the fellow soldier does not seek to remake time for himself, arranging technological revolutions, but, on the contrary, integrates into the time he has acquired without any progression.
        1. Alf
          Alf 2 October 2019 20: 25
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          With a few exceptions - however, this exception is made up of books where the fellow soldier does not seek to remake time for himself, arranging technological revolutions, but, on the contrary, integrates into the time he has acquired without any progression.

          Try the cycle of Vlad Polyakov Confederate about our man who failed in the 1860th year in the USA in the body of a planter. It is written interestingly, it is easy to read and there are no inventions by AKM, MI-24 and Enterprise.
    4. kalibr
      2 October 2019 18: 02
      +2
      Andrey, what did you write?
      1. Senior seaman
        Senior seaman 2 October 2019 20: 47
        +4
        http://samlib.ru/k/kolobow_a_n/
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 October 2019 00: 55
          +1
          Thanks for the info, Ivan!
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 3 October 2019 07: 27
        +4
        Greetings, dear Vyacheslav! Yes, so - the adventures of a Russian naval officer on the eve of and the beginning of the First World War. A world in which small changes in relation to current reality, starting with the Russian-Japanese one, gradually led the country to completely different paths
  6. solzh
    solzh 2 October 2019 15: 33
    +1
    A man is strangely arranged. Always looking for something else, not the same as it is, but some kind of alternative to an already existing history. I think we need to study the past, it contains many unknown pages of our history, including, there are still unknown pages of the Great Patriotic War, and not write some alternative and futuristic stories of mankind. Because of this, it is possible that, among other things, due to an alternative history, our real history is being rewritten.
    1. zenion
      zenion 2 October 2019 17: 07
      -6
      Hitler sent millions of soldiers and millions of weapons to the USSR. And lost. And everything worked out, as Stalin said - one saboteur can do more harm than the whole army. I was surprised by another circumstance that all the oaths of the USSR so easily betrayed the country. So Hitler was 90% right with respect to the USSR warriors and Stalin was right when he spoke of traitors. And the people of Russia did not deserve freedom.
      1. Sergey Zhikharev
        Sergey Zhikharev 5 October 2019 13: 45
        0
        And the people of Russia did not deserve freedom
        .
        What is this opinion based on?
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 2 October 2019 19: 40
      +1
      Quote: solzh
      I think we need to study the past, it contains many unknown pages of our history, including, there are still unknown pages of the Great Patriotic War, and not write some alternative and futuristic stories of mankind.
      Of course, it is necessary to study history, but do not confuse scientific and entertaining literature.
    3. Oleg (Kharkov)
      Oleg (Kharkov) 3 October 2019 23: 04
      0
      Quote: solzh
      I think we need to study the past, it contains many unknown pages in our history

      you're right. I am sure we do not know anything about 1991. in 1941 there was a much more severe government crisis. and yet...
  7. Ali Kokand
    Ali Kokand 2 October 2019 15: 39
    +2
    Popadanians get to a lot of places, everywhere they dig in the bushes, enlighten Stalin and sing songs, shoot down a pack of Luftwaffe pilots. There is even a standard set of popadanets, such as invent AK and an intermediate cartridge, pass Khrushchev, etc.
    1. toha124
      toha124 2 October 2019 16: 22
      +1
      Commander's turret still happens
  8. bubalik
    bubalik 2 October 2019 15: 40
    +5
    ,,, reading, think well now, now ,, eh request not yet laughing Vyacheslav Olegovich, what did you say about other authors, but there isn’t any direction about your books? Or will it be continued feelimplicitly there is a feeling that this is an advertising move such, right? what
    1. kalibr
      2 October 2019 18: 13
      +4
      Will be in the second part or in the third. Our". But what kind of advertising is there? All two editions are sold out long ago.
  9. tihonmarine
    tihonmarine 2 October 2019 15: 40
    +3
    The second popular topic, especially in the United States, is the victory of the southerners in the Civil War between the North and the South.
    For me, it would be better if the Southerners would have won the Civil War, the Yankees were sick of it.
    1. bubalik
      bubalik 2 October 2019 15: 53
      +4
      ,,, if Johann Roll would not like chess so wink
    2. kaperazbh5
      kaperazbh5 2 October 2019 17: 31
      +3
      It's amazing how the thoughts coincide). He visited the USA both in the south and the north. As if two different countries and people are different. And live differently
      1. Alf
        Alf 2 October 2019 20: 33
        +1
        Quote: kaperazbh5
        He has been to the USA both in the south and in the north. As if two different countries and people are different. And live differently

        I once read the memories of our journalist who traveled around the states in the late 70s. So he wrote that in the South there are still places where you can get in the face for mentioning the name of General Sherman.
        And pay attention to one interesting point.
        In Hollywood films, the antihero comes to the bar, where the same bad guys are going. And the flag of the Confederation ALWAYS hangs on the wall of the bar. Thus, the subconscious analogy - Confederation - is very bad in the brain of the person watching the film. Why is this done? Because the South has not forgotten anything. And in the United States there are quite powerful political forces that still want to separate the South from the North.
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 2 October 2019 20: 56
          +1
          Quote: Alf
          Because the South has not forgotten anything.

          For them, the "gringos" remain now.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 3 October 2019 00: 52
            +6
            "Gringo" is a contemptuous term used by Latin Americans to refer to US citizens. The traditional naming of the inhabitants of the southern states of the United States is "Dixie"
            1. Alf
              Alf 3 October 2019 21: 13
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              "Gringo" is a contemptuous term used by Latin Americans to refer to US citizens. The traditional naming of the inhabitants of the southern states of the United States is "Dixie"

              As Charlottesville recently boomed gloriously, where they decided to remove the statues of General Lee and Jackson Stone Wall.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 October 2019 21: 20
                +3
                This box has been around for three years now. Periodically I follow events. Excitement has already appeared: will it reach shooting or not.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 3 October 2019 21: 39
                    +1
                    And I was wondering why everyone is always rooting for "Dixie"? Why did Mitchell go so far as to spread out the accents a century ahead?
                    1. Alf
                      Alf 3 October 2019 21: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      And I was wondering why everyone is always rooting for "Dixie"? Why did Mitchell go so far as to spread out the accents a century ahead?

                      First, they do not root for Dixie, but for the lack of education of the United States as a single power.
                      Secondly, by that time slavery in the South had already begun to die, the process of peaceful liberation of blacks was moving quietly.
                      And, thirdly, in the South the concept of "honor" remained in force, while in the West, as it is fashionable to say now, the "trend" was success at any cost and walking over other people's heads.
                      And, to draw an analogy, I do not care about the problems of the Irish, but I like and suits the fact that they can create a non-fake hemorrhoids in Britain.
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 3 October 2019 22: 04
                        +1
                        According to the first and fourth points, the second and third could be skipped.
    3. kalibr
      2 October 2019 18: 14
      +2
      Then the Negro slavery would survive until the 1952 year!
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 2 October 2019 19: 57
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Then the Negro slavery would survive until the 1952 year!

        Yes, maybe it's for the best.
      2. Alf
        Alf 2 October 2019 20: 27
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Then the Negro slavery would survive until the 1952 year!

        Does the example of free blacks in modern states mean nothing?
      3. frog
        frog 2 October 2019 22: 27
        +5
        Are you sure? The war did not begin at all because of slavery, EMNIP
      4. Barmaleyka
        Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 10
        +2
        Quote: kalibr
        Then the Negro slavery would survive until the 1952 year!

        why?!
        war of the north and south to slavery
    4. Alf
      Alf 2 October 2019 20: 26
      0
      Quote: tihonmarine
      The second popular topic, especially in the United States, is the victory of the southerners in the Civil War between the North and the South.
      For me, it would be better if the Southerners would have won the Civil War, the Yankees were sick of it.

      Vlad Polyakov Confederate.
  10. Lexus
    Lexus 2 October 2019 15: 43
    -4
    Alternative history is akin to gay sexuality. Sometimes it comes to "tin". But as "writers" are, so are "admirers". It is surprising that some "taught" nonsense then "praise" for the only truth like flies, "enjoying" feces and spreading the infection.
    1. Sergey Zhikharev
      Sergey Zhikharev 5 October 2019 14: 02
      +1
      There is such a concept as "simulation modeling" - which is widely used in the army, by various leaders, as a training method (pilots, drivers, sailors). Analysis of a game of chess, football match (hockey, basketball), the same applies here. Working on mistakes in school subjects is the same. You need to know a) what happened, b) what will happen if something changes (if Petrov had not obscured Sidorov, then Sidorov would have accepted the ball, so in the next game Petrov should stand further from Sidorov).
      An alternative story is essentially the same modeling. What if
      Of course, various authors enter fellow travelers, and get a sort of heroic reading. Which is designed for teenagers.
      Only if the GG in the ordinary world will chop enemies with one hand and shoot with the other (in the sense of a sword and a machine gun), and at the same time make love with a beauty, then in AI, he will at the same time give wise advice to others.
  11. smaug78
    smaug78 2 October 2019 15: 44
    +1
    At one time, it went a lot: Andrei Martyanov, Elena Khayetskaya “Der Architekt”.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 October 2019 19: 29
      +2
      Bravo, dear! A good example of a quality alternative.
      1. tihonmarine
        tihonmarine 2 October 2019 19: 48
        0
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Bravo, dear! A good example of a quality alternative.

        About our neighbors you can compose so many alternatives, not read in a hundred years.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 2 October 2019 19: 51
          +1
          Which of the neighbors do you mean, Vlad?
          1. tihonmarine
            tihonmarine 2 October 2019 20: 08
            +2
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            Which of the neighbors do you mean, Vlad?

            Svidomo. Here you can start from the Carpathians starting from the 1939 year and went deeper.
            1. 3x3zsave
              3x3zsave 2 October 2019 20: 18
              +2
              Vlad, I apologize for the direct and rude question, I would like to immediately highlight the accents. Do you associate all the citizens of today's Ukraine with the personnel of the SS Galicia division?
              1. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 2 October 2019 20: 41
                +1
                Quote: 3x3zsave
                Do you associate all the citizens of today's Ukraine with the personnel of the SS Galicia division?

                Naturally NO, only "Galicia", "Azov", "Aydar" and other (punitive) tricksters. That's about them and an alternative is needed. The people have nothing to do with it. The people in my office get a job to feed the children and work day and night for months
                1. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 2 October 2019 20: 51
                  +1
                  Good. Because I really would not like to initiate the next coven on this topic. Let's leave her? drinks
                  1. tihonmarine
                    tihonmarine 2 October 2019 20: 53
                    0
                    Quote: 3x3zsave
                    Because I really would not like to initiate the next coven on this topic. Let's leave her?

                    Only abnormal want it. Thank you bye.
  12. strannik1985
    strannik1985 2 October 2019 15: 50
    0
    Tastes could not be discussed. Who likes what.
  13. hohol95
    hohol95 2 October 2019 16: 09
    +3

    "It Is Impossible With Us" (Eng. It Can't Happen Here) is a 1935 novel by American writer Sinclair Lewis. Published during the rise of fascism in Europe. The novel describes the rise of Buzz Windrip, a populist senator who is elected to the post of US president, promising fundamental economic and social reforms, promoting a return to patriotism and traditional values. After his election, Windrip gains complete control of the government and establishes totalitarian rule with the help of military force, in the manner of Hitler and the SS.

    Fortunately for many, this work did not become prophetic!
  14. toha124
    toha124 2 October 2019 16: 25
    +4
    Here, gentlemen, we must understand one more thing. Regarding covers. I understand that the authors of the covers do not read illustrated books - there is no time for this. Therefore, often inside is a perfectly acceptable light reading, and outside is a beast.
  15. bandabas
    bandabas 2 October 2019 16: 27
    +1
    Maybe of course I missed ... And where is Philip Kindred Dick. By the way, on the works of which a lot of films were shot? I flipped through the article again. No...
    1. kalibr
      2 October 2019 18: 11
      +2
      Did you notice that the material ended in the English? And in the second part there will be a few of them and the Americans will go ... And he is just an American.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 2 October 2019 20: 38
        +2
        works appeared both in the field of fiction and in the field of journalism, where the Second World War was not only predicted


        Good evening, Vyacheslav. hi

        Do you remember the name of the author of the book "The Death of the Titan", written at the end of the XNUMXth century? There the author not only guessed the name of the ship that crashed ("Titanic"), but gave almost exact measurements of the ship, the place and cause of the death, but also hit the mark with the number of victims of the disaster. ”There was just some kind of prophecy.
        1. Van 16
          Van 16 3 October 2019 04: 18
          +4
          I apologize for interfering. If I am not mistaken this is Morgan Robertson "Futility or the Death of a Titan"
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 3 October 2019 15: 31
            +2
            Intervene in health if everything is in the business. I learned the full title of this book only from you, everywhere, from what came into my hands, it was simply "The Death of the Titan". Thanks. hi
        2. Sergey Zhikharev
          Sergey Zhikharev 5 October 2019 14: 11
          0
          1) "if you take a thousand monkeys and give them a thousand typewriters, then one of them will write War and Peace" (though with the development of the Internet it turned out that this is not so). Prophecies are such a thing that surely come true, only prophecies must be given as much as possible, and preferably more vague. For example, my prophecy for Winter "The winter of 2019-2020 in Russia will be strange, there will be heavy snowfalls, cold weather, thaws and freezing temperatures in places, terrible cold and big snowdrifts that the military will have to use." In this proposal, in theory, there are two opposite concepts - "freezing temperatures" and "snowdrifts with cold weather", which of them will refer to Moscow, Novosibirsk, or Vladivostok - is not known. But something will react. And I can say with a clear conscience that I gave an accurate forecast. In general, there were many books about disasters at sea, so one coincided.
          2) after the death of the Titanic, the author made minor corrections, and thus there were more coincidences (proofs of the prophecy)
  16. zenion
    zenion 2 October 2019 16: 48
    +2
    Hitler won. All his plans against the USSR have come true. There is no country, what remains is robbed according to Hitler's plan. The country from which the soul and oil are pumped out with gas.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 12
      +2
      Quote: zenion
      have come true. There is no country, what remains is robbed according to Hitler's plan.

      by the way, if you read the plan "Ost" then the hair begins to move, because it is really being implemented
  17. Basarev
    Basarev 2 October 2019 17: 16
    -1
    And why in the article is considered only the Second World War, and only the European theater? After all, there are many more options. For example, Iran gives a stick to the Arab conquerors and remains Zoroastrian, for example, Svyatoslav still takes Constantinople, preventing baptism. And Russia to this day remains a pagan, European analogue of Japan.
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 2 October 2019 17: 53
      +4
      If you look at the entire spectrum of alternative "writings" - you get "War and Peace"! Or "Quiet Don"!
      Something similar will happen with books on the topic of "zombie apocalypse".
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 October 2019 20: 33
        +2
        You are right, Alexey! Therefore, I did not write a detailed commentary, having estimated that it would be published in a couple of articles. Only the word "scribble" was touched, but perhaps you have not read a really high-quality "alternative" hi
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 2 October 2019 21: 25
          +1
          Alas! I stopped reading books at the time when I appeared in our country
          this genre! I remember trying to read about a special forces soldier specially sent to eliminate Nicholas II! And he "rebooted" and so on! Russia won all! I could not finish reading! Now I only read books from the War Adventure series!
          But if you tell me some good books, I will be very grateful!
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 October 2019 21: 39
            0
            Yes, of course.
            Already mentioned in the discussion of "Der Arkitekt" by Mrtianov and Khaetskaya and its continuation, "Option" Bis "" by Anisimov. This is for a start, then you have to dig into my electronic libraries.
          2. Barmaleyka
            Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 15
            +2
            Quote: hohol95
            But if you tell me some good books, I will be very grateful!

            probably the best is an attempt to return, Konyushevsky
        2. hohol95
          hohol95 2 October 2019 21: 38
          +3
          Any literary "series" begins with beautiful, "explosive" books. But then everything rolls down to the banal making money and increasing the "universe" by other authors. On that almost always a wonderful plot and quietly dies! An example from my memory is a series of "Slavic fantasy" Vladigor. And attempts to create the "universe" of the Wolfhound from the Gray Dogs clan by other authors. From foreign - Dragon Lance (although the main authors of the series, Margaret Weis and Don Perrin, have decent works about the dragonids)!
      2. Sergey Zhikharev
        Sergey Zhikharev 5 October 2019 14: 14
        +1
        And it will be only the 1st part
    2. kalibr
      2 October 2019 18: 08
      +3
      Arseny, because otherwise you will get tired of reading it ...
    3. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 14
      +2
      Quote: Basarev
      Svyatoslav still takes Constantinople, preventing baptism

      not a fact, baptism (change of religion) was in no way connected with religion itself, much less with faith, Vladimir was not satisfied with the power of the Magi who were not subordinate to him
    4. Mentor
      Mentor 3 October 2019 09: 31
      0
      Personally, I have not seen such books. Anyway, the whole problem is that the authors, especially those with SI, studied history in the "Light" version. Therefore, Nazi Germany, Japan Mikado, and the USSR are fighting together (and winning) the Anglo-Americans, and the other Swedes who have joined them ...
    5. Oleg (Kharkov)
      Oleg (Kharkov) 3 October 2019 23: 07
      +2
      Quote: Basarev
      Iran gives a stick to the Arab conquerors and remains Zoroastrian, for example, Svyatoslav still takes Constantinople, preventing baptism. And Russia to this day remains a pagan, European analogue of Japan.

      too little information about the life of that era. Too alien society. It is very difficult to predict.
      Iran gives a stick ... Where is that Iran? young people do not know how Iran differs from Iraq ... Do not make money on such an alternative ...
  18. Pavel57
    Pavel57 2 October 2019 17: 17
    +1
    Our Masha is just a fool - Epicurus read.
  19. kalibr
    2 October 2019 18: 07
    +4
    Quote: bubalik
    ,,, reading, I think, well now, now, oh no, Vyacheslav Olegovich, what have you said about other authors, but about this book in this direction? Or in the sequel will there be an underlying feeling that this is an advertising move, right?

    Dear Sergey, you saw - "To be continued". So there will still be. There will also be about my book ... but why immediately advertising, if the book has already got into Wikipedia? Both the first and second editions have been sold out long ago. So not to write about her would be just stupid, there is nothing to be ashamed of.
    1. bubalik
      bubalik 2 October 2019 20: 13
      +3
      ,,,maybe so request but since you are a teacher of PR technologies, wink We will not focus on this smile
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 October 2019 20: 24
        +4
        Sergei hi As yesterday's practice showed, any unauthorized (unpaid) advertising on the forum is quickly and severely suppressed.
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 2 October 2019 21: 08
          +3
          I could not stand the psyche of advertising,
          She told me - good-bye, o-bi, o-kay.
          wassat
  20. sergo1914
    sergo1914 2 October 2019 18: 10
    +3
    Heh heh. Well here. And the photos are correct with the correct signatures, and a list of references. Maybe when he wants.
    PS Hedgehog - a proud bird, do not kick - will not fly.
    1. kalibr
      2 October 2019 18: 49
      +3
      Sergey, you just don’t need to blame me for forgery, forgery is a deliberate deception in order to get something there. And then I opened the Network, found a photo with a signature and inserted it. As it turned out, there is another signature. Under the same photo! What kind of forgery is this and what kind of examination has established that your option is more correct than mine? So if you don’t talk to me in such a manner, then I don’t take offense at the comments and always correct them.
  21. faterdom
    faterdom 2 October 2019 18: 16
    +5
    An interesting selection of photos. It is not about fellow travelers in general, but it is very interesting, characterizes its time better than any long descriptions.
    About fellow travelers and an alternative story - all authors love to turn to it, only one is interesting and of high quality, like Akunin or Zlotnikov, the same Mazin, others - it is careless and, at times, frankly black-and-white popular print.
    And so - the genre, perhaps, from the top, in comparison with detectives, space science fiction and a muddy wave of fantasy - there already smells of medicine for a long time (in the last).
    Eh, we had masters - Nikolai Nosov is the same .... His "Dunno on the Moon" - how could he know? Or is it a reference book at HSE?
  22. Engineer
    Engineer 2 October 2019 18: 28
    +1
    The most famous alternative on this topic is "The Man in the High Castle." Even the series was going to be filmed (or filmed?) Good or bad, but I gave up reading at the very beginning. F.K. Dick can only read stories.
    1. BISMARCK94
      BISMARCK94 3 October 2019 10: 15
      0
      in November the fourth season comes out. In my opinion, he has already gone beyond the bounds of the book, the book is generally thin
      1. Engineer
        Engineer 3 October 2019 11: 42
        0
        Wow. The book is thin, but not even mastered it. Dick, as for me, does not know how to animate the story. Therefore, the films Blade Runner and Screamers have gone far enough from his original books. And they didn’t get worse
  23. kalibr
    2 October 2019 18: 54
    +5
    Quote: Amateur
    If the Author reads "Blue Salo" by V. Sorokin (1999, also an alternative story) and does not vomit at the same time, then he can write soooooooooo, "how beautiful it is."

    In my opinion it is not quite ... adequate.
  24. Undecim
    Undecim 2 October 2019 19: 06
    +7
    I allow myself a critical stone.
    The title is "Alternative history as a literary genre". If you follow the title, you must start with Titus Livy.
    As for “Hitler Kaput” or “Hitler-winner”, then here we must begin no earlier than with this book.

    "We, Adolf I" was written by the Hungarian Laszlo Gaspar in 1945, after the defeat of Germany. In the book, however, Germany wins the Battle of Stalingrad and the war, Hitler crowns himself emperor and prepares a dynastic marriage with a Japanese princess. This is the first literary work in the genre of alternative history, where the Axis countries win. Everything listed in the article earlier does not apply to the genre of alternative history.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 2 October 2019 21: 02
      +2
      Is there something wrong with Titus Livius? After all, with all due respect, he wrote about Hannibal.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 2 October 2019 21: 18
        +3
        Titus Livia is fine. He is the first of the famous authors who created a literary work that falls within the definition of altistory - in the book Ab Urbe Condita Libri he described an alternative story of the 4th century BC, in which Alexander the Great did not die and moved to Rome.
        1. Korsar4
          Korsar4 2 October 2019 21: 20
          +2
          I wonder how. It didn’t come across.
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 2 October 2019 21: 29
            +3
            Yes, there is no particular expression there, only three chapters in volume IX of the "History of Rome from the Founding of the City" in the form of a lyrical digression, but if interested, then take a look - https://librebook.me/the_history_of_rome/vol12/1, sections 17-19 ...
            1. Korsar4
              Korsar4 2 October 2019 21: 51
              +2
              Thank. Assumption on assumption. But what a beautiful language. And how he loves his land - in every line is heard.
  25. frols
    frols 2 October 2019 19: 16
    +4
    An alternative history may become a reality very soon. Europe already accuses the USSR of the beginning of World War II and calmly looks at the revival of fascism, both in Ukraine and in the Baltic countries. Here's "our" President Egils Levits sent amendments to the Seim, proposing to declare March 2 as Day in memory of the national resistance movement, and March 17 has been an unofficial memorable day in Latvia for several years, in memory of the fallen soldiers of the Latvian SS Volunteer Legion. Coincidence? Yes, this president was born in a Jewish-Latvian family, and although for a long time Europe has turned a blind eye to everything how Russians are treated in the countries of the former USSR, there has never been such a persecution of everything Russian as with this subchik, so the story will soon become completely different and science fiction writers are not necessary.
    1. Barmaleyka
      Barmaleyka 2 October 2019 23: 17
      -1
      Quote: frols
      to the revival of fascism

      Nazism, fascism is still something else
  26. ZAV69
    ZAV69 2 October 2019 19: 20
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    one must master the history perfectly.

    What in reality is not observed.

    Why not. Full of authors who know history perfectly. If you didn’t come across it, it doesn’t mean that they do not exist. Offhand A.B. Chernov. Series "The World of the Breakthrough Varyag" The reasons for the RYAV and the entire policy of those years are examined in detail. By the way it is actively being written.
    Vlad Savin. Cycle "Sea Wolf". It is also being actively written, but there is another interesting point: an analysis of why the USSR collapsed in the end and what to do to prevent this from happening. Well, to the heap, the post-war alternative history of China, Vietnam, naturally based on the real events of our history. It was quite interesting to learn about the real story of such a character as Pol Pot.
  27. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 2 October 2019 19: 27
    +1
    If yes, if only!
    Quote: kalibr
    Will be in the second part or in the third.

    Auto RU. Have you really read all this rubbish? But, the pictures are cool. French blacks. Soldiers carry a suitcase and riots on their heads!
  28. swzero
    swzero 2 October 2019 19: 36
    +1
    The book "New History of the Second World War" by S. Pereslegin, the picture of which the author attached in the article, has nothing to do with alternative history. This is just a book on the history of the Second World War, where the author tries to rethink some interesting points. For example, the pre-war structure of the Red Army oversaturated with tanks to the detriment of armored personnel carriers and vehicles. And his thoughts are interesting. Those. the author of the article, without even bothering to read anything that criticizes.
  29. garri-lin
    garri-lin 2 October 2019 19: 59
    +2
    Less alternatives in rolling down in dystopia or utopia. Spoils the whole impression. Complex genre.
  30. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 2 October 2019 20: 01
    +2
    Thank you for the quality review article, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Unfortunately, a very narrow, however, the most popular one from the genre of alternative history was chosen.
    1. bubalik
      bubalik 2 October 2019 20: 31
      +5
      the most popular


      ,,, all the main characters are laughing
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 October 2019 20: 41
        +1
        Sergey, this is a common misconception. The genre "hitting" has nothing to do with the genre "alternative history"
        1. bubalik
          bubalik 2 October 2019 20: 46
          +1
          ,,,Yes what disagree stop
          According to the plot of the work, at some point in the past, for some reason, either by chance or as a result of the intervention of external forces, for example, newcomers from the future, something different from what is happening in real history happens.
          but not always yes
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 2 October 2019 21: 14
            0
            Where does the quote come from?
            1. bubalik
              bubalik 2 October 2019 21: 28
              +1
              Wiki
              Alternate History (AI) is a genre of fiction dedicated to depicting reality, which could have been if history had taken a different path at one of its turning points (bifurcation points or fork points).
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 2 October 2019 21: 48
                +4
                http://althistory.getbb.org/viewtopic.php?f=27&p=68&sid=e72dcc57d3bac2e7ec4a3a523f6dc5d4#p68
                This is the material of a person who really understands this genre. By the way, he is the author of several articles published on "VO"
                1. Oleg (Kharkov)
                  Oleg (Kharkov) 3 October 2019 23: 13
                  -1
                  Quote: 3x3zsave
                  This is the material of a person who is really versed in this genre.

                  The real altistory is how the war would go if Hitler died on July 20.07.1944, XNUMX.
      2. Capellan23
        Capellan23 3 October 2019 17: 43
        +1
        And there are such:


  31. Catfish
    Catfish 2 October 2019 20: 29
    +6
    Somehow I was never particularly interested in alternative history, professing the principle that there is no subjunctive mood in history. I know several authors on our website who even describing real events try to fit them of their own free will, and make the final conclusion with a bias to the alternative they like. Well, this is their right and, by the way, without agreeing with them, I read them with interest and respect them.
    For me, the best way to deal with AI has always been and remains the story About "Henry" The Roads of Destiny, the one where the unlucky poet, in three different situations, always ends his life path from a bullet from a pistol by the Marquis de Beaupertuis. final one.
    In general, with all due respect to the authors from the AI ​​section, everything there boils down to the immortal formula of Guberman, who popularly explained under the indispensable condition that "a grandmother could be a grandfather." smile
  32. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 2 October 2019 20: 32
    +2
    And what’s interesting, the question there at the beginning is about the future German-Soviet war, although it would seem, why write about the war between the USSR and Germany in 1930? Yes, there were absolutely no prerequisites for her then. There was Rapallo, there was trade ... but here you go ... he wrote this.
    What does Rapallo have to do with the complete absence of the Reich not only the Kriegsmeerine, but also the Wehrmacht. The prerequisites are necessary for the inhabitants to analyze the situation on the couch. And here the view is imposed on us that the war between the USSR and Germany is their personal, albeit unexpected, affair. If you understand that the war between the USSR and Germany was planned and prepared by the USA and England, since 1925, then there will be no open mouths.
  33. kalibr
    2 October 2019 20: 39
    +2
    Quote: Undecim
    Everything listed in the article earlier does not apply to the genre of alternative history.

    But is in the section of alternative literature in its framework is considered.
    1. Undecim
      Undecim 2 October 2019 20: 55
      0
      That’s what the books under discussion aren’t exactly, as it is to alternative literature. Alt-lit is a product of the XNUMXst century when self-publishing, self-promotion and maintaining a presence on social networks became possible. This is Facebook and Noah Cicero, but not Golovin and Bubnov.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 2 October 2019 22: 48
        +1
        In this case, I know who was the founder of the alternative literature genre, at least in this country.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 October 2019 21: 29
      +2
      This Milorad Pavic is in the framework of alternative literature!
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, Victor Nikolaevich is partially right, as some of the works you have indicated can be safely attributed to the genre of futurology. I note that the classification of genres and subgenres in modern literature is extremely complex and ungrateful. However, there is a person on this site (including as an author) who is a great specialist in the field of alternative history and it would be extremely interesting to hear his opinion. I hope he will appear today.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 2 October 2019 22: 03
        +2
        He is there, but he remains silent. Maybe he just doesn't look at Opinions. I also wandered by accident.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 2 October 2019 22: 14
          +2
          Yes, Artyom once mentioned this fact.
      2. Undecim
        Undecim 2 October 2019 22: 08
        +1
        Pavic does not fit altlit.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 2 October 2019 22: 25
          +1
          Perhaps, but the genre of alternative history to alternative literature - even more so!
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 2 October 2019 22: 44
            +1
            So I kind of about it! Maybe I somehow unclearly stated, but the point was that altlit and altistory are completely different genres.
  34. kalibr
    2 October 2019 20: 47
    +2
    Anton, you know, once I wrote to you, my method. I prefer to take exactly the bottlenecks, and not spread my thoughts along the tree. Basically what I'm interested in. Interesting - I've been doing this for a while. It is deep enough because it is narrow. Then, something else. I try to try what I write about myself. Or at least hold on ... I've had an interest in this area since 1989. The first edition of Orwell's 1984 in the USSR. Then ... everything. Then my own book, try it like this. I tried it, it worked. Then the interest disappeared, but the materials remained. It's time to put them into action.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 October 2019 21: 05
      +2
      Quote: kalibr
      Anton, you know, somehow I wrote to you, my method.

      It was in connection with this that I did not write a detailed commentary; he could compete with the article, but I do not like this plot twist.
    2. Oleg (Kharkov)
      Oleg (Kharkov) 4 October 2019 08: 39
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      Then your own book, try like that. I tried, it turned out. Then interest disappeared, but the materials remained.

      I respect
      Can you somehow reset to read what I wrote? prose, not an alternative.
      On the topic: I was always wondering how the putsch of the State Emergency Committee could otherwise end. Father told me that their tanks were ready for the march (town of Gvardeyskoe) to Kuev and were just waiting for the order. The order did not wait. Liberasts in ties won ... but there could be an order ... eh ...
      ... reading articles like "the Russian Federation has" Poseidon "or" daggers "... all this is decay, if there are traitors in the Kremlin ...
      1. frog
        frog 4 October 2019 10: 53
        0
        The order did not wait. Liberasts in ties won ... but there could be an order ... eh ...

        Could not, alas. Yes, even if it were - to change that? Upstairs, few people understood what was happening to the country, and even less what to do to save it. And I don’t know at all if there was anyone able to do this .......
      2. kalibr
        4 October 2019 13: 13
        0
        Oleg, send, I'm always ready to help those who do something ... Write in a personal, receive my e-mail, send a text to it.
  35. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 2 October 2019 20: 48
    0
    For example, according to John Keegan, the Barbarossa plan was Hitler's worst choice. Where it would be better to seize the Levant and the Middle East. After all, there was raw materials that he so lacked. And then he had a formal reason: on April 3, 1941, a coup d'etat occurred in Iraq and Rashid Ali, who came to power, turned to Germany with a request for help. Hitler could only help ...
    Well, an option, however. The Turks were ready for war, but did not dare or they were not allowed. The arrival of the Wehrmacht on their borders could push them, and there the Caucasus and oil. At the beginning of the war in the Caucasus, we held a strong grouping.
  36. kalibr
    2 October 2019 21: 52
    +2
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    However, there is a person on this site (including as an author) who is a great specialist in the field of alternative history and it would be extremely interesting to hear his opinion. I hope he will appear today.

    Wonderful! Come, come !!!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 October 2019 22: 28
      +2
      I wrote to him in PM. By the way, are you familiar with his articles on the history of Spain
  37. kalibr
    2 October 2019 21: 59
    +3
    Quote: swzero
    what criticizes.

    Am I criticizing something? God have mercy, there is not a single word of criticism in the text. Is there even a word about this book in the article? Her picture is given only to show that there are authors who consider many issues from alternative points of view. That's all! And he also writes - "if only." And I didn’t take a photo either.
  38. DPN
    DPN 2 October 2019 22: 06
    -1
    As they said at one time they would drink THEIR beer, which is what we are doing now thanks to Gorbachev and Yeltsin and have been sitting for 30 years.
    Who is going here? if you fantasize such garbage.
  39. kalibr
    2 October 2019 22: 08
    +2
    I haven't read it in detail to remember. But I looked through many books. If not yesterday, then a year, two, three, ago. And the book "Armored Vehicle of Time" donated by the author and with an inscription somewhere even ... And photographs ... These are all Bundesarchives. But anyone can use it. Much more interesting is the Imperial War Archive in London. There you pay money and get any photos, but those that have never been published - 20 pounds.
  40. kalibr
    2 October 2019 22: 21
    +4
    Good evening to you too! Of course I remember. I had this with an article in the Penza newspaper GUBERNSKAYA GAZETA in 2000. I wrote there an article "The Last Reserve of Socialism" that it is necessary to reduce the term of service in the army to a year, raise the salaries of officers, widely use contractors ... Oh, how I am local " commies "retirees then watered ... Petitions were written ... Who do you think interceded in the reply article? Boris Vasiliev, author of "The Dawns Here ...". I read an article on the Internet and ... knocked them on the heads. And - most importantly, I guessed everything - the deadline is now a year, the salary has been raised, the contractors are being attracted en masse. So when you do what, then ... guessing is easier than just a finger to the sky!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 October 2019 22: 30
      +1
      This is called futurology.
  41. arturpraetor
    arturpraetor 2 October 2019 22: 58
    +5
    Maybe he just doesn't look at Opinions.

    I don’t drop in. But if they called, he looked in hi

    I can not say much about alternative history as a genre of literature. More precisely, I can not say much good. request Most of the books from this genre, with which I got acquainted, turned out to be associated with the popes, who themselves are very peculiar, I would even say - a fantasy concept that has little to do with history as a science. As one friend of mine says, “in the term alternative history, many emphasize the word alternative, forgetting that this is history” (the quote is not verbatim). Those. the story in such literature acts rather as a scenery for the action, and the action itself is often a legend about another Superman, namely a commando with 14 diplomas in philosophy, psychology, technical sciences and, of course, who thoroughly knows the history of this particular period in this particular location (and this story also turns out to be crystal-clear). In other cases, cause-and-effect relationships and logic are completely lost - Churchill got up with his right foot on the day he was supposed to get up with his left, and now Japanese aircraft carriers are storming the English Channel, and Hitler is forcing his scientists to experiment in the field of change operations gender .... Of course, this is exaggerated, but most of the art literature on AI in my eyes for a long time is not even worthy of even reading a review, and this despite the fact that the most alternative history as an almost-science and kind of activity I am a staunch fan ... Semyon Semyonich flew to Stalin in a blue helicopter, gave him an Armata and two army corps of elite special forces, and all at once healed happily ever after. Thu, it's already disgusting to remember ...

    And here's the funny thing - there are authors and books that are worthy of attention. Their conclusions are logical, the hitmen are usually not supermen, or even those hitmen are absent altogether. It's just that history at some point, where everything was decided by chance, suddenly took a different path, since another accident happened, and off we go ... But such books are not always successful. I know at least one book, which, as far as I know, was wrapped up by publishers, although from the point of view of the logic and atmosphere of what was happening there, everything was beyond praise. It’s just, you see, the public doesn’t want to see such “smart” books, where mediocre stories written by some graphomaniac about another hitman with a screamingly silly cover are selling much better. Well, or so the publishers think - I have no idea, I have not personally encountered this, but for some reason it is insulting.

    I honestly admit that I still have a very beloved author, who over and over again happens to the popes, but at the same time books are read avidly and with great pleasure. This author is A. Belyanin, with his magnificent trilogy "The Sword without a Name" and the cycle "Secret Investigation of Tsar Pea". Perhaps these are the only cases in which I perceive the victims without much indignation. Whoever is in the subject will understand.

    PS And yes, doing AI requires the most thorough knowledge of real history, and these two hobbies - alternative and real history - often allow you to look at each other differently, if you are engaged in them together, it is better to evaluate certain events or opportunities, etc. etc. AI helps a lot in the analysis of RI, therefore, IMHO, every good historian who could analyze it is always a little AI-shnik. But the trouble is that many ignoramuses also consider themselves to be AI, and some of them even undertake to write books. To spice up this matter with the lack of logic and understanding of the mechanisms of work of human society and psychology, and even elementary ignorance of the peculiarities of certain technologies or models of technology, and you will get something that the popular phrase "trash, frenzy and sodomy" will perfectly suit the description of. Well, okay, this is the case, but I went on to deal with my alternative, which has practically nothing to do with the subject of the article ... fellow
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 2 October 2019 23: 48
      +3
      Quote: arturpraetor
      "trash, frenzy and sodomy".

      "The Middle Ages are in the yard,
      Obscurantism and jazz "(c) laughing
      Bravo, Artem!
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 3 October 2019 00: 31
        0
        Yes, he came, he saw, he left no stone unturned. After such a review of the mind, the epitaph on the article asks: "Why now sobs, empty praise, unnecessary chorus, and pitiful babbling of justification."
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 3 October 2019 00: 34
          +1
          And Vyacheslav Olegovich seems offended by me.
        2. arturpraetor
          arturpraetor 3 October 2019 00: 47
          +3
          I apologize if anyone hurt such an answer hi It's just that in those AI circles where I live - and my colleague Senior Sailor and Andrei from Chelyabinsk won't let me lie - they treat the AI ​​literature of the hitmen quite ... Ambiguously. And I completely share the dislike of it among many - the victims must also be used wisely, and they are all based on the same motive, and according to Mary's plot. Those. even apart from the fact that it is a scribble on a historical theme, from a purely literary point of view there are often such problems that it is time to compare books with women's novels of the worst kind. By the way, both of these colleagues are examples of good writers in this field - the books of the respected Ivan Ochenkov, in my opinion, simply do not need introduction (there are very "soft" hits), and Andrey has a great "Verb over the Baltic", which shows an example AI literature without the use of populists. But they ate more than one dog in the study of real history, and more than once they were engaged in third-party AIs. And some people do not really have a history, and they do not hone their AI skills, but they write a book a month with a superman-hitter ... This, by the way, is mostly a problem of modern Russian AI literature. I did not study the earlier and foreign ones closely, but things seem to be not so sad there, but this genre is not so developed there at the moment. Although, again. I'm not special in this particular alternative history ...
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 3 October 2019 02: 00
            +4
            Artem, Viktor Nikolaevich and I appealed to you as the only specialist in this field that we knew. You have expressed your opinion in the correct form. I don’t understand what offenses can be?
            I will express my opinion regarding the "hit".
            In Western science fiction (let's call a spade a spade) I have never seen anything like it except M. Twain. Thus, it can be argued that this is a purely domestic phenomenon, which, by the way, has a tradition. In this regard, one can recall the "Rude Romance" and S. Gansovsky's dilogy. However, the blooming "hit" in all Russian-language fiction over the past 30 years can only be explained by the "complex of the vanquished" that dominates our generation throughout the post-Soviet space. Hence the popularity of "hitting", striving at least in this way to rewrite history, as compensatory psychotechnics.
            1. arturpraetor
              arturpraetor 3 October 2019 02: 09
              +2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              In Western science fiction (we will call a spade a spade) nothing like this except M. Twain has not met.

              I somehow came across either a graphic novel, or a full-fledged text novel, in which a whole crew of an American destroyer of WWII times ("smooth-deck") "got", and not just anywhere, but in a fantasy world, where there was an unequal confrontation between the two beast-human races. The idea is very original, and, as I understand from the reviews, it is written well, but the problem is that there is no translation in Russian. In addition, I remember a film where a whole American AUG with a nuclear aircraft carrier "hit" at once, on the day of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and tried to prevent what had happened, but was forced to recall the planes due to the storm (the storm brought them home itself) ... Well, the classic - the series "Quantum Leap", where the main hero, having played with the time machine, "gets" in each episode. So the topic is quite widespread there, but I have not met an outspoken gonev there, unlike modern Russian-language AI literature.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 3 October 2019 02: 18
                +3
                Quote: arturpraetor
                but I didn’t meet with outright rage there, unlike modern Russian-language AI literature

                Because there is a market (rather narrow at the moment) and competition. And in our country, as a result of the disease indicated by me, there is a huge demand and line production, "people hawala".
                1. arturpraetor
                  arturpraetor 3 October 2019 02: 41
                  +2
                  At the expense of the huge demand, I would not say - in the same article, as you might have noticed, a lot of people spoke, to put it mildly, skeptically about this genre. Here, I'm afraid, everything is a little more complicated, and how to put it ... More mercantile. Speaking by analogy, publishers prefer to give the country coal, small, but a lot, but large anthracite is released much less frequently. At one time I was spinning in writers' circles, not only on the topic of AI, and many were indignant that a really high-quality product that "comes" to the people could simply not be accepted, relying on the rustic and stupid consumer goods that "people eat". Publishers are sometimes not interested in the fact that people are “eating” a quality product with even greater interest, this also applies to the genres of science fiction and fantasy. I have read very interesting drafts and manuscripts that were rejected by publishers, and they were much better than the tin plate that they prefer to publish most often. But - "too boring", "too clever", "too much detail", "too difficult", etc. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but that's exactly what I got.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 3 October 2019 02: 52
                    +4
                    The fact that they are outraged does not mean "do not read", on the contrary, it means that what they read turned out to be "sucks". In this sense, the last comment on this "thread" is indicative. This is the reaction of a person who does not understand "what the speech is about."
                  2. frog
                    frog 3 October 2019 15: 31
                    +1
                    So this is just a business. Which needs a shaft. And the shaft, according to the publisher, is what we see in the windows. Since they will take it with guarantee. And a big part of publishers understands this. And all these ...... tricky)))) pieces ..... No, not our format .....
              2. Sergey Zhikharev
                Sergey Zhikharev 5 October 2019 14: 19
                +3
                "Towards the Storm". (about the destroyer)
                1. arturpraetor
                  arturpraetor 5 October 2019 17: 20
                  +2
                  Thank you. It seems that a translation has already appeared - you can read it, such people are quite suitable for me.
                  1. Sergey Zhikharev
                    Sergey Zhikharev 6 October 2019 07: 41
                    +1
                    Please.
                    Ask Count Zeppelin with the FAI - he was just involved in the translation
  42. Alexy
    Alexy 3 October 2019 01: 06
    -2
    What kind of article, could you write anything smarter?
  43. kalibr
    3 October 2019 07: 24
    +2
    Quote: arturpraetor
    I have read very interesting drafts and manuscripts that were rejected by publishers, and they were much better than the tin that they prefer to publish most often. But - "too boring", "too clever", "too much detail", "too difficult", etc. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but that's exactly what I got.

    You are absolutely right. The novel "Pareto's Law" was taken from me in Germany, but not taken to the Russian Federation. Motivation? too fat, no sex (!), little brutality ... Although the novel is very interesting.
  44. kalibr
    3 October 2019 07: 34
    +4
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    can only be explained by the "complex of the vanquished" that dominates our generation throughout the post-Soviet space. Hence the popularity of "hitting", striving at least in this way to rewrite history, as compensatory psychotechnics.

    Absolutely fair opinion
  45. kalibr
    3 October 2019 07: 42
    +3
    Quote: 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave (Anton) Today, 00: 34
    +1
    And Vyacheslav Olegovich seems offended by me.

    Why would Anton? I have no reason for that. Just did not write further. I went to 15.00 to the country.
  46. hohol95
    hohol95 3 October 2019 09: 19
    +4

    The best fighters are the crew of a super secret German tank and Soviet partisans!
  47. kalibr
    3 October 2019 16: 35
    +1
    Quote: frog
    Since they will take it with guarantee. And a big part of publishers understands this.

    But these people had the best Soviet education ...
    1. frog
      frog 3 October 2019 21: 23
      0
      Notice, I didn’t say that)))) I have complaints about this education. Less than the current cardboard trade, but there are .....
  48. Sapsan136
    Sapsan136 4 October 2019 02: 27
    +2
    If it were not for Hitler’s concept of racial superiority over other nations, Hitler would have a chance to gain Napoleon’s laurels and try to do what Frederick the Great failed earlier, but German small-town nationalism did not leave Germany a chance to win ...
  49. kalibr
    4 October 2019 06: 29
    0
    Will you allow this to be used as an epigraph to the article?
    1. Alceers
      Alceers 8 October 2019 11: 14
      0
      And they didn’t say a Hitlerophile ....
  50. EvilLion
    EvilLion 4 October 2019 08: 10
    0
    What is the article about? Did the author replay the last part of Wolfenstein?