Military Review

China has created three lines for mass production of J-20 fighters

133
Over the past years, Chinese media and experts have been constantly praising their latest J-20 fighter, which, according to Western nomenclature, belongs to the fifth generation of combat aircraft. However, a similar approach is typical for many American and Russian publications with the difference that they extol F-35 and Su-57, respectively.


China has created three lines for mass production of J-20 fighters


However, if the domestic machine is far from mass production, then the Chinese product will soon expect a truly mass production. Judging by the materials published by CCTV, all the necessary capacities are created in China forcibly.

Currently, three production lines are being built that resemble an assembly line for automobiles. Two of them will mainly produce equipment for the J-20 equipped with the Russian AL-31F engine, and the remainder will produce J-20 from a Chinese-designed WS-15 power plant.

It is alleged that each of these sites allows you to produce no less than one machine per month. This will put the J-20 production on stream. A total of three lines will produce at least 36 aircraft per year.

In total, China, according to Chinese media, will release at least 200 of the latest fighters.
Photos used:
https://www.tportal.hr/
133 comments
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  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 11: 58
    +14
    M-DYA. 5 generation fighter with AL31F engines ... And, of course, having no analogues in the world :)
    1. WILL
      WILL 1 October 2019 12: 03
      +50
      But appreciate the scale! good Sooner or later, the Chinese will create their -good engine ... and they will have where to put it.
      Considering that they (the Chinese) are to us ... and not a friend and not an enemy as well, it causes me a certain concern.
      1. kit88
        kit88 1 October 2019 13: 50
        +3
        Quote: ANIMAL
        But appreciate the scale!

        Yes, what is the scale, by Chinese standards. 3 aircraft per month, 200 units for 6 years. To catch up with the Americans in the number of F-35 (2500 pcs.), 60 will have to work tirelessly for years.
        And we, I think, are not particularly worried about this issue. Everything is normal, predictable and according to plan. Now, if the plans for the production of 25 000 j-20 boards were revealed, then it would fit right to ask a question -
        "Why do they need so much?"

        And vague doubts torment me, no matter how the tiger turns out to be paper.
        1. Leeds
          Leeds 1 October 2019 19: 27
          +2
          Quote: kit88
          Quote: ANIMAL
          But appreciate the scale!

          Yes, what is the scale, by Chinese standards. 3 aircraft per month, 200 units for 6 years. To catch up with the Americans in the number of F-35 (2500 pcs.), 60 will have to work tirelessly for years.
          And we, I think, are not particularly worried about this issue. Everything is normal, predictable and according to plan. Now, if the plans for the production of 25 000 j-20 boards were revealed, then it would fit right to ask a question -
          "Why do they need so much?"

          And vague doubts torment me, no matter how the tiger turns out to be paper.

          “And we, I think, are not particularly worried about this issue” - but what is there, pah, the chickens are ridiculed.

          “Everything is normal, predictable and according to plan.” - Is it 12 per year?
      2. bk316
        bk316 1 October 2019 13: 52
        -3
        But appreciate the scale!

        shitty scale for China I would say scale
        quite comparable to su-57
        1. WILL
          WILL 1 October 2019 13: 59
          +21
          Quote: bk316
          But appreciate the scale!

          shitty scale for China I would say scale
          quite comparable to su-57

          Here the question is different ... I already wrote about this, Will - OWN, A good engine - There will be a real Scale!
          Look at the pace of construction of the Navy in China ... until recently, on wooden junks were ... and Now ???
          1. Lexus
            Lexus 1 October 2019 17: 46
            +8
            In my opinion, if we all together "grudge" the J-20, it will not get any worse from it, just as the Su-57 will not get better and more massive from this. Another question is that the Chinese are actively deploying mass production and will only increase it. They will buy as many planes as necessary and will not wait until the money appears or the president is honored. According to the necessary technologies, they are already quite independent. Engine? And what about the engine? You won't be able to finish your own - they will wait for "Product 30" and buy it with giblets. Or will our bourgeoisie not sell? They will force a couple of dozen Su-57s and sell them. And they will also be presented as another export "success". Or was it not?
          2. bk316
            bk316 2 October 2019 11: 40
            0
            I already wrote about this, Will - OWN, A good engine - There will be a real Scale!

            Are we discussing the article or your enthusiasm about the future of China?
            The SCALE indicated in the article is actually a scale.
            There is a separate discussion about the future of China. The enthusiasm for the explosive growth of the Chinese economy is understandable, but if you knew the history of China, you would have known that such periods already existed and were replaced by almost complete collapse .... China is certainly a great country, but in many ways it is not what it seems.
        2. Adimius38
          Adimius38 1 October 2019 20: 47
          0
          scale))))) well ..... With such economic power, China can make this scale large-scale))) And we will have snot wiping with our sleeves and ride naive about the best of the best developments. In China, they are not fools, why should they rivet 200 planes per year which may not be necessary so much and only an installation party is needed. They will make 50-60 sides and there they will see whether it is worth it to rivet further or something better is on the way
          1. Chaldon48
            Chaldon48 1 October 2019 21: 05
            0
            That's right, the quality is fine, but if there is no quantity, then just zilch.
    2. Civil
      Civil 1 October 2019 12: 04
      -10
      A plastic airplane computer with imported engines, this is the number. Mass.
    3. pytar
      pytar 1 October 2019 12: 09
      +9
      On two of these, mainly the production of equipment for J-20, equipped with the Russian engine AL-31F, on the remaining - J-20 with a Chinese-designed propulsion system WS-15.

      The article does not indicate, but the Chinese consider the use of AL-31F a temporary measure, until the transition to J-20 releases from domestic WS-15 engines is complete.
      WS15 (發動機 15)


      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 12: 17
        +15
        Everything would be fine, but the Chinese have been tormenting ws-15 since the last century, and so far - without success. And the fact that the 2 lines of the three go under AL31F, suggests that the brainchild of a gloomy Chinese genius never came to stable work
        1. pytar
          pytar 1 October 2019 13: 09
          +6
          They are tormented, but as they say - luck will catch up with what is going forward ... The fact that one line will work with Chinese engines indicates that they continue to sharpen their motor! And this is temporary until everyone switches to the Chinese engine. There should be no doubt that the ego will reach a sufficiently high level of performance.
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 13: 46
            +11
            Rather, everything is a little different.
            The Chinese apparently did not manage to provide an acceptable (more than 500 hours) ws-15 resource, but on the other hand, it seriously surpasses the AL31F in traction. So the Chinese will have 1 / 3 airplanes with decent performance characteristics but without a resource, and 2 / 3 airplanes with recovery but without performance characteristics.
            And as for good luck .... So far, on the motor front, they are all deaf. You can copy the design, but the material processing processes ... This is much more complicated
            1. pytar
              pytar 1 October 2019 13: 50
              +9
              Yes, they learn fast! Something will be stolen, something will be finished ... But they can produce in huge quantities, so they will quickly replace the obsolete one.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 15: 04
                +1
                That's the problem (Chinese) that is not very. They are adept at copying, but it is one thing to copy the design, which is relatively easy, and quite another to recreate the production of the necessary materials. Here we need a school, reverse engineering does not take this. So they can’t master the production of aircraft engines for fighters for more than 25 years
                1. pytar
                  pytar 1 October 2019 15: 13
                  +2
                  Of course, technology is complicated! But let's not be fooled! Undoubtedly, China will cope with this problem! Industrial espionage or come up with yourself, it doesn’t matter! It's a question of time! By the number of patented inventions, China is confidently leading the world! Somewhere I read such statistics!
                  1. Journalist
                    Journalist 1 October 2019 16: 08
                    +2
                    Do not pay attention to patents in the context of state defense. Only those who want to get profit from this in the form of paper are engaged in this nonsense. As soon as you file a patent, the technology instantly becomes public. Yes, the copyright holder will have to pay for its use, but the Chinese (and not only them) have never stopped copying. Therefore, technologies that are strategically important for the country are NEVER patented, but rather kept secret in every way. If something is patented, then it is no longer a secret.
                    1. pytar
                      pytar 1 October 2019 16: 48
                      +3
                      Even with the notes on your note, China already has everything it needs! The stage of initial formation, it has already passed! You just look at the parade that the Chinese showed in the afternoon! Really impressive, and this is just a hint ...
                      1. Journalist
                        Journalist 1 October 2019 17: 08
                        -1
                        Paphos, pomposity, the reverence of the Chinese in the blood. If you were interested in the history of this people (and I was interested in quite a lot), then you would not be surprised at many news from this country. Yes, and would have been much less impressed ...
                      2. pytar
                        pytar 1 October 2019 17: 28
                        +2
                        Yes, I, too, was interested in their everyday life. I personally am surprised not by the news itself, as such, but by the pace with which they come out ...
                  2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 16: 36
                    -2
                    Quote: pytar
                    But let's not be fooled! Undoubtedly, China will cope with this problem!

                    I do not like self-deception, I am a realist. But the reality so far looks like that in a number of areas of military construction (nuclear submarines, aircraft engines and something else), China is not able to compete with Russian / American / European developments even in the 70s and 80s of the last century. Moreover, they have had the desire to "catch up and overtake" for a very long time, but a stone flower does not come out. And it is not a fact that it will be released in the next 15-20 years. Although everything can be, of course.
                    1. Lexus
                      Lexus 1 October 2019 17: 27
                      +1
                      Andrei hi
                      Once upon a time they bought a lot of military equipment from us. And now, look at Projects 001A, 052D, 055, 041 from VNEU and you will quietly be envious. These are not models of nonexistent "Storms", "Leaders" and "Cupids" to carry around exhibitions. They study more for aviation engineers and designers than we have technical specialists in general. Do you remember how half a million gymnasts alone prepared for the Beijing Olympics?
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 19: 05
                        0
                        Quote: lexus
                        Once upon a time they bought a lot of military equipment from us. And now, take a look at the 001, 052D, 055, 041 Projects from VNEU and you will quietly envy.

                        Alexei, why envy?
                        We envy the pace of construction. Such a good, black envy :)))) For they build a lot and build quickly. But about the quality ...
                        1) 001A - a copy of the not very successful "Kuznetsov", a project of the 70s of the last century
                        2) 055 - large, but without harmonica. The ship in the 12 CT, but the air defense is not layered, only long-range missiles (and even based on the C-300, that is, yesterday’s technology) and ZAK-i. RCC is, but unknown TTX.
                        3) 052 Д - quite a successful esm, with somewhat outdated weapons
                        4) 041 with VNEU is a mystery of the Chinese submarine, one can only guess about the quality of submarines.
                        Quote: lexus
                        These are not models of nonexistent "Storms", "Leaders" and "Cupids" to carry around exhibitions.

                        That's right. But the Chinese fleet is taking more likely in quantity, its weapons systems, as you can understand, are not at the forefront of progress
                      2. Lexus
                        Lexus 1 October 2019 19: 19
                        0
                        2) 055 - large, but without harmonica. The ship in the 12 CT, but the air defense is not layered, only long-range missiles (and even based on the C-300, that is, yesterday’s technology) and ZAK-i. RCC is, but unknown TTX.

                        It seems that a universal UVP was introduced, the corresponding missiles. The Chinese "RAM" was installed in the back, and not the one that is installed on the 056th corvettes.
                    2. pytar
                      pytar 1 October 2019 17: 30
                      +2
                      If we look in time, the reality is that China is one thousand of its 3. years of existence, only 300 was retarded. The rest of the time, he was a forge of the world and a very advanced country. There is no reason to believe that he will not regain his position. On a new level with new insights!
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 40
                        -2
                        Most of China's current achievements are copying and hybridization - it is pronounced in military technology, and the quality leaves much to be desired.
              2. Adimius38
                Adimius38 1 October 2019 20: 48
                0
                Of course, they quickly learn because already in full ride S-300 And S-400 of Chinese manufacture))
            2. NordOst16
              NordOst16 1 October 2019 14: 56
              +3
              Nothing, the industry of the USSR was also not immediately built, and it began with purchases and copying.
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 15: 05
                +3
                There is a big difference. USSR bought technology. China copy design
                1. pytar
                  pytar 1 October 2019 16: 06
                  +4
                  Andrei hi everyone bought technology and design, everything that is of interest to them! What they can’t buy, they steal ... Nothing new!
                2. NordOst16
                  NordOst16 1 October 2019 16: 35
                  0
                  Pfff, we connected the printer (for example, subway cars). I don’t think that Beijing does not force Western companies to share their technologies (Trump at the time complained about it)
                3. Frederick
                  Frederick 1 October 2019 17: 09
                  +3
                  Isn't China buying technology ?! For example, https://topcor.ru/4656-pochemu-rossija-otdaet-kitaju-nou-hau-v-uscherb-sebe.html Or maybe the Russian Federation has never helped China to create something ?! For example, the sale of those to China. documentation for MiG 1.44, S-300, MLRS Smerch, plus NPO Splav created missiles for Chinese MLRS, respectively, with full transfer of those. documentation, and probably a lot more, it's just not customary to talk about it. Regarding Chinese copying: many, apparently, are still not in the subject, how do they manage to do it with impunity ?! The fact is that China and India entered the WTO on preferential terms, the main benefits are non-observance of license rights and intellectual property. Plus, there are very tricky guys in China, and at the "Dawn of the Chinese Economic Miracle" they came up with laws that oblige foreign companies to provide all information about a product (including technology) in China, in exchange for cheap labor and tax benefits. That is, they played on the greed of the capitalists. Why then many companies refused to transfer all production to China and the "top" segment of their products is produced in other countries. And taking into account these two factors, in fact, the "Chinese economic miracle" happened. Although this is not a "miracle" at all, but the result of competent and far-sighted actions of the Chinese leadership.

                  And given the various reports of our government and the media about all kinds of cooperation with China, I won’t be surprised at all if they transmit (maybe already) all those. documentation, for example on the same AL-31 or AL-41, or our specialists will create, help to complete and bring to mind the Chinese engine. And China will have its own engine. This is only a matter of time. And from the article it is clear that China is preparing for serious serial production.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 19: 11
                    0
                    Quote: Friedrich
                    But does China not buy technology ?!

                    Mostly not
                    Quote: Friedrich
                    Or maybe the Russian Federation has never helped China to create something ?!

                    Helped. And what's the point? You look at how and how we helped them in the aviation industry. All they could do was recreate the Su-27 somehow, and the engines could not be reproduced.
                    Quote: Friedrich
                    And given the various reports of our government and the media about all kinds of cooperation with China, I won’t be surprised at all if they transmit (maybe already) all those. documentation, for example on the same AL-31 or AL-41

                    I’ll tell you so - this did not happen even in the funny 90, and I don’t see a single reason why this can happen now
                4. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 36
                  -1
                  But besides the fact that the USSR was buying technology, he himself perfected and created new ones.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 37
                -1
                That was 80 years ago.
                1. NordOst16
                  NordOst16 2 October 2019 08: 55
                  0
                  Well, just the Soviets started earlier than the PRC. And so it is very similar
        2. Runoway
          Runoway 1 October 2019 16: 10
          +2
          And there is nothing to suffer in development, you need to suffer in intelligence !!!! Excuse me, but we have such a "patriotic" country, with a "rich" population and "unmarketable" authorities and top managers ......... how long does it take for the Chinese to "acquire" the necessary knowledge ?!
          Honestly, I always considered the J-20 to be nothing more than a hyped prototype, bluffing no more, and now the question is, aren't the Chinese fools punching a trinket on a large scale ?!
          Bad engines ?! So soon they will be good, guaranteed
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 16: 38
            +1
            Quote: Runoway
            Bad engines ?! So soon they will be good, guaranteed

            I can only repeat that the Chinese have been struggling with this problem for more than a quarter of a century. And I don’t see anything yet that could speak about their success
            1. Runoway
              Runoway 1 October 2019 19: 25
              -2
              As far as I heard, the blades are burning, they cannot create the necessary alloy. How long will it take to find a "virtue" in Russia ?! And maybe at the state level "partners are the same." Taiga in the open there, it's scary to watch Googlemap, but here I think it's easier
            2. NordOst16
              NordOst16 2 October 2019 08: 58
              0
              Well, we also sawed the frigate for more than 10 years. Gas turbines for power plants and ship power plants, although such production remains in Ukraine, but things are moving forward, and China will quietly finish its engines
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 09: 46
                0
                The issue with the frigate was not in the turbines, but in the SAM. And the Chinese will finish, only when they finish?
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 1 October 2019 12: 26
        -2
        Unfortunately for the Chinese, from engines with a resource of bearing blades and shafts of no more than 500 hours, there will not be any sense - at least how to bring them.
        1. pytar
          pytar 1 October 2019 13: 23
          +3
          Well, it was so once with the first Soviet engines! Motor resources are still lagging behind the western ones. This is not fatal, the Chinese will finish ws to an acceptable level. More importantly, they have enough production capabilities and can produce the amounts they need!
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 34
            -2
            They don’t produce turbo generators either - for a similar reason, there isn’t such a science-intensive production as turbo-building - one that has been created and developed for decades and will not appear in their near and medium term, it won’t be able to copy, since the output will be the same WS fifteen.
            1. NordOst16
              NordOst16 2 October 2019 09: 01
              0
              Oh, come on, the production of gas turbines for ships in Ukraine remains and nothing, sawing something of our own. And they get to that. If you really want to and make a lot of money at the same time, then it will turn out in any case, the USSR is very indicative here. How I started with the purchase and copying of foreign technologies and achieved the development of our industry
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 1 October 2019 13: 50
      +2
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      M-DYA. 5 generation fighter with AL31F engines ... And, of course, having no analogues in the world :)

      Naturally not having! Well, where else in the world is a fifth-generation fighter with development engines of the early 70s of the last century? smile
      1. Town Hall
        Town Hall 1 October 2019 13: 58
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Naturally not having! Well, where else in the world is a fifth-generation fighter with development engines of the early 70s of the last century?

        There is another country. A 5th generation airplane with engines that are a modification of the development engine of the 70s of the last century
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 15: 37
          +3
          Town Hall, you are absolutely right. F-22 this is
          1. Town Hall
            Town Hall 1 October 2019 17: 46
            0
            Indians have a different opinion)
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 17: 58
              +2
              Well, their opinion does not negate the fact that the F-22 dvigun was designed on the basis of the "weave" on which the emnip still flew needles
              1. Avior
                Avior 1 October 2019 19: 27
                0
                dvigun F-22 was designed on the basis of "weaving"

                where does this information come from?
                This is usually written in Russian-language sources.
                in English, they sometimes write that the F-100 is the predecessor of the F-119, but not the base.
                The F-119 is fundamentally distinguished by blisk technology and wide-chordate blades, which were first used in this serial engine.
                Here the F-135 is really made on the basis of the F-119, everyone writes it.
                for example, on globalsecurity there is not a word about it
                https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-22-f119.htm
                I did not find it in other sources either.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 10: 36
                  0
                  Because, actually, before talking about the bases and fundamentals, you should first agree on the terms. What do we consider a new product, and what is a modification? If you consider the 119th new product on the basis of the differences you have indicated, then the AL41ph1 with its all-round nozzle, plasma ignition system and the rejection of mechanical control in favor of the numbers all the more cannot be considered a modification of the AL31 that the Town Hall hinted at
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 2 October 2019 11: 18
                    0
                    This is unlikely.
                    For the engine, these are additional elements that do not fundamentally affect its design.
                    Therefore, it is not surprising that on Wikipedia, for example, on the page of al-31, in the list of its modifications there is al-41- and this is logical - they have the same foundation, scapula, body and so on.
                    With f-119 the situation is different. Blisk technology involves a different design of the engine itself.
                    The fact that f-100, in principle, was taken as the basis for f-119, can be read in Russian-language resources, without details, what exactly were taken from f-100, which specific details and elements.
                    But in English I did not find a mention that f-100 was used as a base.
                    In the best case, they write, the predecessor, and in the rest, they do not write at all about some kind of connection between them.
                    hi
                    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 17: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Avior
                      This is unlikely.
                      For the engine, these are additional elements that do not fundamentally affect its design.

                      If you think that the nozzle, control system and ignition are elements that do not fundamentally affect the design of the engine, then I'm just in a light shock. hi And what, then, is there a construction? In tank building, the basic schemes have not changed since Renault, and what, to consider all the T-90M and Leopard A7 tanks, inclusive, made on the basis of a French tank from the beginning of the last century?
                      Quote: Avior
                      Therefore, it is not surprising that on Wikipedia, for example, on the page of al-31, in the list of its modifications there is al-41- and this is logical - they have the same foundation, scapula, body and so on.

                      I hasten to note that even a wiki indicates that 80% of the construction of Al-41Ф1 consists of new elements. As a result, for example, the resource has quadrupled.
                      Quote: Avior
                      With f-119 the situation is different. Blisk technology involves a different design of the engine itself.

                      The technology involves combining the blades with the rotor. The Titanic’s anchor is in my liver, if I understand why you think the transition to plasma ignition and digital ACS is a lesser innovation.
                      Quote: Avior
                      The fact that f-100, in principle, was taken as the basis for f-119, can be read in Russian-language resources, without details, what exactly were taken from f-100, which specific details and elements.
                      But in English I did not find a mention that f-100 was used as a base.

                      Therefore, I am talking about the need for a unified assessment system. Both the 119 and AL-41F1 went very far from their ancestors. Depending on what parameters we evaluate them, they are either based on the engines of the past generation (like Abrams based on Renault FT) or both are completely new developments.
                      1. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 2 October 2019 17: 21
                        0
                        The difference is that 119 is the 5th generation engine and the AL-41F1 is not. So there are 4 generations left. This is also said by the Indians who know the Su-57 well. And the Russian designers themselves who modestly called it the 1st stage engine). And work hard 5th generation engine
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 3 October 2019 06: 55
                        0
                        The Town Hall, firstly, AL41F1 is exactly the 5 generation, and it is transitional for the Su-57, why confuse these two concepts? Secondly, even if he were of the 4 generation, what does this have to do with our little discussion? We seem to be talking about the difference between Al31 and AL41, and not about generations whose borders between them are even more difficult to describe than between fighters. As for the Indians - trading in their blood, what they say and what they think are two big differences
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 2 October 2019 17: 30
                        0
                        There is no doubt that Al-41 is coming from AL-31. But the fact that the f-119 comes from the f-100, I did not see any justification, and I did not see any statements with reference to its source either.
                        The engine is based on a housing, compressors, turbines, a combustion chamber.
                        At f-119 they are made using a completely new technology blisk.
                        And about ignition, control are ordinary objects of modernization of engines of the same type.
                      4. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 2 October 2019 22: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Avior
                        There is no doubt that Al-41 is coming from AL-31. But the fact that the f-119 comes from the f-100, I did not see any justification, and I did not see any statements with reference to its source either.
                        The engine is based on a housing, compressors, turbines, a combustion chamber.
                        At f-119 they are made using a completely new technology blisk.
                        And about ignition, control are ordinary objects of modernization of engines of the same type.


                        The latest model in the F100 Series, the F100-PW-229 (introduced in 1992), is an improved high-thrust improvement of the older F100-PW-220 (introduced in 1986)
                        The Americans themselves consider the 229th 92nd year of birth the last model of the line. The f-22/35 engines consider it a separate line. They rightly believe.
                      5. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 3 October 2019 07: 18
                        0
                        The Russians themselves believe that the Al41f1 is a separate line in comparison with the engines of the Al31 family, as the 41 index clearly indicates :)
                      6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 3 October 2019 07: 11
                        0
                        I am sorry that you have no doubt that AL41F1 comes from Al31, because this is completely wrong. In fact, AL41f1 comes from Al41F, the engine for the 1.44 Mig. Linking to 31 turned out like this - when an engine was needed for Pak fa, it became clear that Al41F was not suitable in size, and then it was decided to implement Al41F technologies based on Al31, which was done.
                        By the way, the compressors and combustion chambers of AL41f1 are new. And blisk technology is just a combination of a rotor and a blade (made into a monolithic part), why do you attach so much importance to it?
                      7. Avior
                        Avior 3 October 2019 09: 42
                        0
                        You are right, they all come from al-31f, I’m too lazy to type too much from a smartphone. The letter f means the presence of an afterburner. Actually, al-41 is also F.
                        In addition, as I see, many are cutting so
                        We seem to be talking about the difference between Al31 and AL41,
                        smile
                        And as part of the modernization of the al-31f engines, all that you wrote about the changes in the al-41f was done in one or another combination — ignition and so on.
                        blisk technology is just a combination of a rotor and a blade (made into a monolithic part), why do you attach so much importance to it?

                        It opens up new possibilities in the creation of engines.
                        It's not just "just".
                        This is the heart of the engine.
                        But in any case, there is no reason to say so far that the F-119 on the basis of the f-100, except for a brief casual phrase thrown at several sites, it is not clear on what basis.
                      8. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 2 October 2019 21: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                        The Titanic’s anchor is in my liver, if I understand why you think the transition to plasma ignition and digital ACS is a lesser innovation.

                        My God ... an innovation that transfers the AL-41 immediately to the 5th generation?) .. this innovation is 100 years old at lunch.

                        The latest model in the F100 Series, the F100-PW-229 (introduced in 1992), is an improved high-thrust improvement of the older F100-PW-220 (introduced in 1986). The F100-PW-229 incorporates proven technological innovations and generates more than 29,000 pounds of thrust with afterburner. The modular maintenance concept, coupled with a state-of-the-art FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) system with improved, real-time engine monitoring and fault isolation capability, promotes the highest level of operational readiness
                        The Americans introduced this innovation in a bearded 1992 on engines for the F-15/16 and somehow did not consider them to be engines of the 5th generation. The same "innovation on Sushki in 20 years is a breakthrough for the homebrew 5th generation)
                      9. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 3 October 2019 07: 19
                        0
                        Town Hall, distorting is not good
    5. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 October 2019 15: 30
      +2
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      M-DYA. 5 generation fighter with AL31F engines ... And, of course, having no analogues in the world :)

      There is a lot of it, technologies are being adopted, studied and implemented. After years 10 is not yet known who will catch up with whom in this matter.
      We, too, still under the king bought the lead ships from Britons and Francs, if we did not forget.
      And by the way, in addition to the SU-57, we also have no new generation fighter. But the Chinese have a resource to which we, as far as the Austrian border in Plastunsky, are a human resource and a clear ideology.
      So your skepticism is very premature. hi
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 16: 49
        +2
        Quote: NEXUS
        There is a lot of it, technologies are being adopted, studied and implemented. After years 10 is not yet known who will catch up with whom in this matter.

        According to my personal forecasts (I do not pretend to be more nostradamic), after 10 years, the Chinese let God learn the resource in 1000 hours for the engine. Despite the fact that he will constructively repeat them last century.
        Quote: NEXUS
        We, too, still under the king bought the lead ships from Britons and Francs, if we did not forget.

        So they built their own good ones. Well, yes, the Tsesarevichs were cloned in the Baltic Sea, well, after all, taste is in its purest form - at the World Cup they built their own and very good Potemkin. And before that, they made magnificent (at the date of laying) Sevastopoli ... In general, our shipbuilding was well developed, we could design and build quite competitive ships.
        Quote: NEXUS
        And by the way, in addition to the SU-57, we also have no new generation fighter.

        But what, Su-57 - not enough? :)
        Quote: NEXUS
        But the Chinese have a resource to which we, as far as the Austrian border in Plastunsky, are a human resource and a clear ideology.

        Alas, the Chinese aircraft engines for the time being are ideologically non-advanced :)))))
        Quote: NEXUS
        So your skepticism is very premature.

        Do not believe me, they told me the same thing about 20 years ago :))
        1. NEXUS
          NEXUS 1 October 2019 17: 03
          0
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          According to my personal forecasts (I do not pretend to be more nostradamic), after 10 years, the Chinese let God learn the resource in 1000 hours per engine.

          Very skeptical forecast. I think that over 10 years, the Chinese planed their fighter no worse than ours or the mattress.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          But what, Su-57 - not enough? :)

          Little ... we really need a light fighter, which we do not have today. MIG-35 by the way is not easy and not at all cheap.
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Alas, the Chinese aircraft engines for the time being are ideologically non-advanced :))))

          You can confidently say that Chinese engines in 10 years will be worse than ours?
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          Do not believe me, they told me the same thing about 20 years ago :))

          20 years ago, in fact, China was just starting out and was essentially an agrarian state. And looking at the pace of development of industry, industry, capital, we must see who will breathe in the tail in this technology race in 10 years. By the way, the Chinese fleet is developing much more dynamically than ours ...
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 October 2019 19: 21
            +2
            Quote: NEXUS
            Very skeptical forecast. I think that over 10 years, the Chinese planed their fighter no worse than ours or the mattress.

            I apologize, but for such feats they have not yet feathered the planer.
            Quote: NEXUS
            You can confidently say that Chinese engines in 10 years will be worse than ours?

            Absolutely for sure.
            Quote: NEXUS
            Little ... we really need a light fighter, which we do not have today. MIG-35 by the way is not easy and not at all cheap.

            We do not need a light fighter at all. And the MiG-35, by the way, may well be quite cheap. It depends on what you compare it to.
            Quote: NEXUS
            20 years ago, in fact, China was just starting out and was essentially an agrarian state.

            In fact, China's industry is developing at a very fast pace with about 1980 g
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 1 October 2019 19: 32
              0
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              I apologize, but for such feats they have not yet feathered the planer.

              So who's talking about now?
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              You can confidently say that Chinese engines in 10 years will be worse than ours?

              Absolutely for sure.

              But I’m not so sure about that. Remind you how, after 16 years after the devastation and war, we launched Gagarin, and became the second economy in the world? So you think that the Chinese are not capable of this? By the way, they work more than us and there are two orders of magnitude more.

              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              We don’t need a light fighter at all

              Seriously? Imagine a hypothetical war without the use of strategic nuclear forces. What will replenish the lost 57-e and in what quantities? At the same time, from which hangover SU-57 should take on the tasks of a light front-line fighter?
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              In fact, China's industry is developing at a very fast pace with about 1980 g

              In fact, the real development of industry and technology industry began 15 years ago. And excuse me, what did we do 15 years before zero to remind you?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 06: 41
                +1
                Who's talking about now? You. Because in order to create an 10 generation fighter in 5 years, work on it had to start 5 years ago.
                War and Gagarin are not a good example. In tsarist Russia there was a fairly developed science, the USSR developed and deepened, having received a very strong scientific and design school. China has gone into reverse engineering, but they do not yet have a strong scientific school. It is in the process of creation, and it is very difficult to say when it will reach the world level in terms of engine building.
                Nobody will replenish the lost 57s, because large-scale wars will be waged with the weapons that were produced before the war. This Second World War was a war of economies, because the cycle of production of weapons and training of soldiers was much shorter than the time of war. Now that the fighter’s production time is about a year, and the pilot training process takes years, this is simply impossible.
                There will be no need to take on the tasks of a light front-line fighter, due to the lack of a front as such. We have no armed forces capable of forming a front, and the enemy has the same thing. Creating a lighter than Su-57 aircraft is possible, but to fulfill its tasks it needs to be a medium fighter. Or, pda is doing it now, hard, but of the previous generation
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 2 October 2019 09: 15
                  0
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Who's talking about now? You. Because in order to create an 10 generation fighter in 5 years, work on it had to start 5 years ago.

                  And here you are deeply mistaken. Not to mention espionage, China is very famously changing technology, even with us. Which cuts the time of creating a new fighter for years. We are our own brains in the old fashioned way ... and the Chinese are very quick to learn and learn over the years what we have gained and reached what for decades.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  War and Gagarin are not a good example.

                  Very suitable. You miss a very important point that today, we are in the same team with China, which they use very well. Plus, this is not a frail economy, ambition and confrontation with countries such as the United States, India and Japan ... and the output is a very rapid increase in military power. And the defense industry has always pushed the country's development forward. Let me remind you that China has an almost unlimited human resource, which I consider to be a key factor in the development of this country at such a pace.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  This Second World War was a war of economies, because the cycle of production of weapons and training of soldiers was much shorter than the time of war.

                  About the cycles, you said it well ... only any war, whether local or global, is a war of economies a priori. Why? Yes, because in order to win, it is necessary to produce weapons, to modernize them (and in a much shorter time than in peacetime), to prepare drugs, etc., etc., which requires considerable money. Why they say that any war is, first of all, a war of attrition, since at this moment, the country does not essentially earn, but spends money, resources, people.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Now that the fighter’s production time is about a year, and the pilot training process takes years, this is simply impossible.

                  In peacetime, a fighter can also be built for two years, since the outcome comes from needs, priorities, where funds are needed, and so on. In wartime, everything is different. Speaking simply, everything for the front is everything for victory. No one in wartime will be engaged in social programs, peaceful outer space, pensions, etc. ... We still have half of the DUAL PURPOSE enterprises in order to quickly switch to the production of military equipment.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  There will be no need to take on the tasks of a light front-line fighter, due to the lack of a front as such.

                  Are you serious? There is always a front with a database. And to transfer the tasks of a light fighter to SU-57 is stupidity, if only because it is redundant, economically more expensive and not effective. A lightweight fighter is easier. He already has tasks. And the price of LFI is several times lower than that of a heavy MFI, which is in a state of war of attrition, not an unimportant factor for the economy. The reserve of military equipment is not rubber, and in any case, new equipment and weapons must be produced during the database.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Creating a lighter than Su-57 aircraft is possible

                  Why's that? Religion does not allow?
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 2 October 2019 10: 12
                    0
                    You can talk about espionage for a long time, but the facts are such that, with all its espionage and the luring of specialists from the Russian Federation and Ukraine, China mastered the production of Su-27СМ without engines. For a quarter century. Therefore, I have every reason to doubt the pace voiced by you. I would say that in the best case scenario, over the next 10 years, China will master a degraded version of the Su-35 with engines from the Su-27.
                    China and I are not in the same team, and have never been there.
                    One should not even dream about the production of fighters in a big war. A fighter is a very complicated product, there are half a country in cooperation, and modern means of non-nuclear attack have long arms. That the enemy eats, of course, will destroy our pro potential. About the dual purpose - forget right away, it’s unrealistic to switch to the production of complex products under military conditions. There and in peace years are needed ...
                    But the most important thing is the pilots. Even if it was possible to quickly make planes in the war - there would still be no one to fly
                    As for the need for light aircraft, then you are mistaken a little more than completely. Just because, judging by your remarks, you never tried to analyze the required number of light aircraft for solving front-line aviation problems and compare them with heavy ones. Although the mere need for deployment near the database area drops their survival rate almost by several times. I am already silent about the quality of work of a heavy aircraft with 2 crew members compared to light, as well as about the expected level of losses
  2. bessmertniy
    bessmertniy 1 October 2019 12: 00
    +2
    China is eager for dominance in the sky. And in general - to domination. And this is alarming.
    1. V1er
      V1er 1 October 2019 12: 02
      +15
      And rightly so. It would be foolish to sit still when the United States is pumping Asia with weapons and militarism. We also need to turn the Far East into an impregnable fortress.
      1. Greenwood
        Greenwood 1 October 2019 14: 07
        +8
        Quote: V1er
        We also need to turn the Far East into an impregnable fortress.
        Yeah, but the trouble is that the population of the Far East is decreasing at a catastrophic pace. Soon there will be nothing to guard. But this is so, by the way.
    2. pytar
      pytar 1 October 2019 13: 52
      +2
      Pax China to replace Pax Americana! And it seems to me that he will be much worse than the former ...
      1. Livonetc
        Livonetc 1 October 2019 15: 36
        +3
        China, a state with a thousand-year history.
        Russia and China have been side by side for a very long time.
        There were problems, but they were always solved to mutual benefit.
        But with the United States, the relationship history is short, but often very unpleasant.
        The United States does not keep their word, do not follow their commitments.
        So Russia would rather choose cooperation with a stable neighbor than with an overseas bandit.
        1. pytar
          pytar 1 October 2019 16: 02
          +3
          Gennady hi , I do not take China so kindly as you do! Moreover, in the history between Russia and China there was everything, as in relations with the United States, among other things ...
          Dragon, predator omnivores! His appetite is immense! And the eagle has feathers! The bear is also not in good shape, to be honest ...
          In my opinion, in the future, China will constitute a much greater threat to Russia than to the United States! I will express seditious thought! In the future, the alliance between the United States and Russia, it seems to me quite likely! This is for objective reasons!
          1. Livonetc
            Livonetc 1 October 2019 16: 29
            0
            I know the story of Peter.
            For example, in the era of the formation of the United States, the Russian fleet covered this young state from the British colonialists.
            In the second world they collaborated.
            However, immediately after graduation, the United States developed a plan for a massive nuclear bombardment of the USSR.
            Throughout the 20th century, the United States carried out bloody and inhuman atrocities.
            They used both nuclear and chemical weapons.
            There are too many similar facts for a calm perception of these creatures as partners.
            However, Russia always means the United States as partners.
            However, the United States has designated Russia in its official strategy as an enemy.
            The officials in their speeches put Russia on a par with terrorist organizations.
            In general, you should talk about trying it rather with US citizens.
            Aggressive politics from the state ensures instability throughout the world.
            1. pytar
              pytar 1 October 2019 16: 43
              +1
              Genaddy, you have raised interesting questions, although they are not quite in the subject.
              The United States and Russia cooperated, and even confronted, depending on their interests! Time itself changes, threats change, interests change, plans and strategies change accordingly! ! On the issue of atrocities, it and the Chinese are far from saints! In general, Asians are quite cruel in mentality. No offense to them, but it's a fact! It seems to me that the United States and the West as a whole made two strategic mistakes that could lead to fatal results for them! First, they allowed an outflow of capital to China and pumped it up, so that it became excessively dangerous for them, in every sense! Second - they put Russia in the category of enemies, pushing it towards close relations with the same China! As a result, in one future period, China will "leave" both the West and Russia, someone like ... either for lunch, or for breakfast ...
              As for your penultimate line, I dare to assure you that few people in the USA are interested in Russia. In the media, the Russian theme, if present, is in an insignificant amount. There is no Russophobia among ordinary Americans, most likely there is complete ignorance of the soft stamps, mainly from films ... I’m not talking about politicians, the situation is different there.
              1. Livonetc
                Livonetc 1 October 2019 16: 55
                +3
                Peter.
                I know the history of China.
                Was there.
                Communicated a lot.
                Russia and China have a lot in common and mental.
                But the common between the US and Russia is not enough.
                And it is the United States that is constantly tearing and aggravating.
                Russia has always been able to negotiate and come to a mutually beneficial compromise.
                And now Russia regularly makes proposals for cooperation.
                Unfortunately, the United States is not ready for mutually beneficial cooperation.
                Wait.
                Russia has a long and successful diplomatic history.
                We can endure and wait.
                This, by the way, differs China.
                And about Asian atrocities, study the history of imperial Japan in relation to neighboring countries.
                Learn about real Asian atrocities.
                Do not want to ask the Chinese, talk to the Koreans.
                1. pytar
                  pytar 1 October 2019 17: 19
                  +2
                  As for the mentality, I will not argue ... Patience, a good trait, but only if it leads to prosperity, and not to stagnation .... I think you understand what I mean ...
                  He studied the histories of Asian countries discounted. Everyone killed everyone, genocide is a "normal" thing. It is characteristic of the inside of the Chinese massacre that they themselves were consumed on a stunning scale! They own the historical world "record" by the way ... There are very good posts here on VO! Accordingly, the question arises: If the Chinese used up their own people so brutally, how will they treat strangers ...? There are many historical examples! Dzungars, Uyghurs ... female battalions of the PLA, armed from the scythe, used to carve Vietnamese children / 1979 / ...
                  1. Livonetc
                    Livonetc 1 October 2019 17: 31
                    +2
                    We also brutally destroyed our own.
                    In my family, 27 males were exterminated, and women continued to be persecuted by other methods.
                    There were such pages in our history.
                    However, they are closed.
                    China has long flipped through such pages and set about building.
                    Unfortunately, Russia embarked on an economic revival much later.
                    We are always "slowly harnessing".
                    We were led into stagnation and destruction in the 90s, when we completely opened to the west.
                    By the way.
                    Please note that Russia managed to negotiate even with Turkey.
                    So we can make compromises.
                    Always ready for partnership.
                    We cooperate with everyone who is ready for this.
                    The USA is not ready.
                    Alas.
                    1. snake
                      snake 1 October 2019 22: 16
                      -1
                      Quote: Livonetc
                      In my family, 27 males were exterminated

                      Maybe it’s more correct to write in the family? Your family is where you are the head of the family and where the head is your father. It is doubtful that in one of them there were 27 people alone men.
                2. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 1 October 2019 19: 10
                  -4
                  "But there is little in common between the United States and Russia" ////
                  -----
                  Political systems are different.
                  And people are very similar. Confirmation of this - speed and success,
                  with which Russians moving to the USA for permanent residence
                  (Slavs, I mean)
                  adapt in the USA and in the 2nd, maximum in the 3rd, generation
                  completely dissolved in American society.
                  But about the dissolution of Russians in China or Chinese in Russia
                  no need to speak.
                3. snake
                  snake 1 October 2019 22: 45
                  -3
                  Quote: Livonetc
                  Russia and China have a lot in common and mental.

                  Can you give a couple of examples?
                  Quote: Livonetc
                  But the common between the US and Russia is not enough.

                  Cinema, cartoons, music, clothes, youth slang, the IT sphere - all this somehow bears the influence of the West in general and the United States in particular. From Peter the Great, the shafts turned westward. What am I - the average Russian, have in common with the Chinese? Can writing? The kitchen? To whom do I face more like a European or a Chinese? (Lovers of A. Blok - keep quiet!)
                  Quote: Livonetc
                  We can endure and wait.

                  We have more than enough of this, yes.
                  Quote: Livonetc
                  This, by the way, differs China.

                  But China has already stopped waiting, and with leaps and bounds rushing into the "bright future". And we all endure and wait ...
                  Quote: Livonetc
                  And about Asian atrocities

                  You can recall Damansky and the gouged eyes of our border guards. Moreover, the atrocities were extreme inadequacy - your "wonderful" Chinese were the aggressors.
                  And how are they now dealing with peoples alien to them? Google about the Uyghurs and the "re-education" camps.
                  They say that the United States lives so curly due to the robbery of other countries. Let's say. But the Chinese no longer want to live as before on a handful of rice per day, but choose the Western standard of living as an example. And there are 330 million Americans and 1400 million Chinese. At whose expense will the Chinese have a decent life?
      2. snake
        snake 1 October 2019 22: 51
        -3
        Quote: pytar
        Pax China to replace Pax Americana! And it seems to me that he will be much worse than the former ...

        You're right. 1.4 billion "civilized" is much worse than 0.33 billion "exceptional".
  3. Livonetc
    Livonetc 1 October 2019 12: 02
    +2
    No one doubts China’s ability to produce 200 aircraft in 6 years.
    It is strange that no more.
    Although perhaps China is already planning a mass production of 6th generation aircraft.
    I’m not ironic.
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 1 October 2019 13: 42
      +4
      I think that they will be released a little more than 200. Then they will also offer for export.
  4. Meliodous
    Meliodous 1 October 2019 12: 09
    -2
    Apparently they decided to bring to mind the already combat machines. Well, good luck to them
  5. parkello
    parkello 1 October 2019 12: 09
    +5
    Well..? have they already proven superior to other types of combat aircraft? if they will be used purely as bombers, then no matter where he goes. although his payload is limited by the volume of bomb bombs and it’s not a fact that they will be able to bomb a powerful country or its bases with impunity anywhere. and in aerial combat, I would prefer to fly on 4th-generation Russian cars. they are already tested by time and operation. I asked the Greek pilots Mirage and F-16, they honestly told me that in terms of aerodynamics and thrust, these are very good planes, the only thing the Greeks have never encountered is the work of their radars and weapons, and so they flew back in the nineties. the Su-27 and Su-27UB in a two-seat version flew to us in Eleusis, there is the Greek air force base. mainly Mirage interceptors, and Phantoms (frank trash) if the Greeks themselves could use radar and weapons, then maybe they would prefer Russian planes to French and American. but then avionics was lame because of which they refused to purchase. Only because of this . and I had a Chinese motorcycle. while riding a Japanese grief did not know. bought a new, chinese scooter. after 6 months he became on the bricks. threw it shorter ... bought again Japanese (boo). still I go .only 1 time changed the pads and new oil filled .all.
    1. Journalist
      Journalist 1 October 2019 16: 33
      +2
      The Chinese have trouble with materials, and wherever you throw: metals, plastics, composites - all of very poor quality. However, they are like locusts snooping around the world and sticking everything that lies badly. In 2015, I was at the first Army exhibition in the Moscow Region with an exposition of our enterprise (I will not name which one, I will only say that the products are unique, without jokes, precisely from the point of view of materials science). In the same hangar, not far from us, there were Chinese with an exposition in the form of a tea shop - they treated everyone to tea for free, smiled at everyone, did not refuse anyone a selfie and generally behaved extremely friendly. On the last day of the exhibition, the whole crowd (10 people) wanted to take a picture with us on the background of our booth. We arranged a continuous fuss and confusion, and ten minutes after their departure we missed two copies of the exposition. Well, at least the old stuff was stolen, all the most advanced was exposed under glass and remained intact. But the sediment remained. Since then I have been suspicious of all of them. It is thanks to its ideology that it is a very muddy nation that does not shy away from anything in order to achieve a higher goal.
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 1 October 2019 12: 15
    +7
    At least kill me, I will not believe that this chest with AL-31F has a cruising supersonic, and in general supersonic ... Something I began to fancy the melody "Crimson Vostok". And the Great Leap Forward ... With blast furnaces in every yard. This is a distant association, but the psychology of the people has not changed.
    1. bk316
      bk316 1 October 2019 13: 56
      +1
      and generally supersonic ...

      Well, you went too far
    2. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 1 October 2019 14: 00
      +2
      Why can't there be supersonic? Dryers supersonic dryers have up to 2500km / h, and this means somewhere also flies. Plus minus 100km.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 2 October 2019 00: 00
        +1
        Quote: Herman 4223
        Why can't there be supersonic?

        I’m exaggerating, but the aerodynamics of this chest with Drying should not be compared. Yes, and it weighs more ...
        1. Herman 4223
          Herman 4223 2 October 2019 06: 46
          0
          Well, you say a little slander, according to information from open sources, its weight is the same as that of the su-27, 17t. Su-35 weighs 19t, Su-57 18,5t. Of course, by maneuverability to su-35,57, he will not be able to do this obviously with engines from the 27th, but he will not be worse than the latter.
  7. yehat
    yehat 1 October 2019 12: 26
    0
    so I didn’t understand - did China prepare assembly lines or screwdriver assembly sites?
  8. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 1 October 2019 12: 34
    +4
    "This is to put the production of J-20 on stream. In total, three lines will produce,
    at least 36 aircraft per year "////
    ----
    It is not enough. Production line for one plane per month? Some kind of mistake.
    At a plant in the USA, one production line produces 12-15 F-35 per month.
    Well, something, but the Chinese know how to organize assembly production lines.
    1. FenH
      FenH 1 October 2019 12: 59
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      "This is to put the production of J-20 on stream. In total, three lines will produce,
      at least 36 aircraft per year "////
      ----
      It is not enough. Production line for one plane per month? Some kind of mistake.
      At a plant in the USA, one production line produces 12-15 F-35 per month.
      Well, something, but the Chinese know how to organize assembly production lines.

      https://www.f35.com/about/life-cycle/production
      Something does not match your statement for the number of months
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 October 2019 13: 42
        -3
        15 is the maximum plant per month. Mass production seems to them
        allowed since the summer of this year. The factory is inundated with orders for 10 years in advance
        and does not cope with the desired pace of production.
        In 2019, the plant plans to transfer 130 aircraft to customers, 40% more than
        in 2018.
        "That optimism will face a stern test during 2019, however, with an expected 40%
        increase in output to see Lockheed hand over in excess of 130 units:
        a rise of at least 39 from last year and roughly double the volume transferred in 2017 "
    2. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 1 October 2019 14: 15
      0
      This is a perfectly normal amount for production. They also produce other aircraft. At this assembly speed, in ten years there will be 360 ​​units of these aircraft. This completely covers what the Chinese Air Force needs, taking into account the production of other machines.
  9. Fedor Sokolov
    Fedor Sokolov 1 October 2019 12: 43
    0
    The Chinese in their repertoire will take not quantity, but quantity.
  10. ab2020
    ab2020 1 October 2019 12: 43
    +5
    There is a certain logic in the actions of the Chinese. By the time they finish their engines, they will already have:
    - 200 boards, where to put them as part of the remotorization company;
    - trained pilots;
    - trained technical staff and service infrastructure;
    - proven tactics for combat use, including on the main types of missile weapons;
    - proven technologies and aircraft assembly lines (and it may well turn out that their productivity will be one aircraft per week, and not one per month).

    So I don’t see any reason to throw hats.
    Based on the engines, as far as I can tell, a number of key nodes are not working out. Considering the intensity with which an "independent businessman from China" climbs into Motorsich and how many Ukrainian engineers from Zaporozhye have gone to work in fraternal China, it is quite possible that in the near future China will receive the missing technologies and they will have a "puzzle" of engine building and, Ultimately, "the entire military aircraft industry will receive a powerful impetus for development.

    And then it may turn out that China will have in its hands the largest fleet of 5th generation fighters (or almost the 5th is no longer important).

    Conclusion: you have to hurry to finish your ...
    1. Maksut Nurgaliyev
      Maksut Nurgaliyev 1 October 2019 12: 53
      +3
      China is not our brotherly people, open your eyes !!!
      1. ab2020
        ab2020 1 October 2019 15: 31
        0
        It was said with irony. I consider them very unpredictable and difficult to calculate.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 1 October 2019 13: 47
      +1
      By the time they "finish" their engines, they will already have
      When they finish their horses, there is no time for the king of monkeys, he sits on a tree or on a mountain:
      1. ab2020
        ab2020 1 October 2019 15: 36
        0
        Ukraine is very different inside. The horses on the Maidan are one thing.
        And the technical elite (grown back in the USSR) is something else. And the horses just push this elite out. This is a chance for Russia to replenish its potential, but also a risk of strengthening neighbors.
        Ukrainian engineers disperse to Russia, North Korea, China and not only ...
    3. bk316
      bk316 1 October 2019 13: 59
      0
      And then it may turn out that China will have in its hands the largest fleet of 5th generation fighters

      how is that? A 200 F-22 and 2500 F-35 AT THE END OF THE ENDS A 80 SU-57?
  11. Maksut Nurgaliyev
    Maksut Nurgaliyev 1 October 2019 12: 52
    0
    If Russian officials didn’t steal billions, it would have been enough for the T-14, Su 57 in large batches !!! Chinese officials are afraid to steal, so immediately to the wall, and China is getting rich due to clones in cars and in military equipment selling around the world, and they spat at all !!!
  12. spectr
    spectr 1 October 2019 13: 02
    +4
    If they bring it to mind, then after 5 years at least they can overcome the market in the Middle East. It is possible that 76 SU-57 were forced to order, so as not to tear the market, as happened with civil aviation.
  13. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 1 October 2019 13: 03
    +1
    The main thing is that China does not repeat the fate of Poland.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 1 October 2019 13: 44
      -1
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      The main thing is that China does not repeat the fate of Poland.

      But where will they go, with such ambition. Blinded by the radiance of their belly button and do not see anything around them.
  14. Arthur 85
    Arthur 85 1 October 2019 13: 05
    -1
    I wrote somewhere that it is necessary to build 5000 conventional "corn plants" as a "first stage" for air combat missiles ... But this is even better. I think that the Chinese will make not 200, but 2000 in the ship version, and so. Well, well done.
  15. Monar
    Monar 1 October 2019 13: 09
    +2
    China has created three lines

    Currently, three production lines are under construction,

    So already or not already created?
    1. Herman 4223
      Herman 4223 1 October 2019 14: 24
      0
      Apparently, one line is already working precisely because the aircraft has been in serial production since last year. The question is, how many lines will be launched two or three more?
  16. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 1 October 2019 13: 37
    +1
    China has created three lines for mass production of J-20 fighters
    Alas and ah!
    However, a similar approach is characteristic of many American and Russian publications with the difference that they extol the F-35 and Su-57, respectively
    But this is editorial myopia. feel Praising, extolling their own, the Chinese spit on someone else's boorish, even if they just copied it.
    China has created three lines for mass production of fighter jets. Currently, three production lines are being built that resemble an assembly line for automobiles. Two of them will be conducted,
    VO, but what do the Japanese work for you there. Do not be fooled!
  17. ZVS
    ZVS 1 October 2019 13: 45
    +3
    While ours are chewing snot and PR, puffing out their cheeks, China begins mass production of the aircraft, albeit with a stretch, but the 5th generation. The southeastern military aviation market for Russia will be lost forever. Without developing an economy, it is difficult to compete with other countries. In addition to Russia's hydrocarbons, there will be nothing to offer under the control of the St. Petersburg clan. One word amateurs who decided to become kings.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 1 October 2019 13: 59
      +1
      Quote: SU
      While ours chew snot and PR, puffing out their cheeks, China begins mass production of the aircraft, albeit with a stretch, but the 5th generation.

      If there is no afterburning supersonic, then pulling this plane into the fifth generation will fail.
      Quote: SU
      The southeastern military aviation market for Russia will be lost forever.

      I just see how India and Vietnam lined up for Chinese fighters. smile
      The southeastern aviation market is determined primarily by politics. And the countries of this region are extremely wary of China, because they do not want to be in a situation again eight corners under one roof (only the roof will now be Chinese).
      1. ZVS
        ZVS 4 October 2019 13: 58
        0
        Quote: Alexey RA

        If there is no afterburning supersonic, then pulling this plane into the fifth generation will fail.
        And tell me, what is the initial sign of a fifth generation airplane?
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 42
      -1
      Don’t worry, it won’t be lost - as almost all Chinese equipment in quality leaves much to be desired, and all potential customers find it.
    3. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 2 October 2019 07: 42
      0
      Without developing an economy, it is difficult to compete with other countries. In addition to Russia's hydrocarbons, there will be nothing to offer under the control of the St. Petersburg clan.
      We have something to offer, defense industry products. Another thing is that their zealots do not allow the development of the military-industrial complex and abandon the requirements of conversion and saving. It is necessary to build new plants for the production of fighters and engines. The new layout of technical flows and taking into account new technological processes.
  18. EDWARD
    EDWARD 1 October 2019 14: 18
    +1
    everything goes to the fact that the Chinese military, and ships. and airplanes. and tanks will be produced by weight. 1000 tons each, 10 000 tons each. ships, 5000 tons of aircraft. )
  19. Bookcase
    Bookcase 1 October 2019 14: 23
    0
    When - there is something to defend - it is very good. But mass in the modern world, when every day can bring a change in the fundamental concept of the world, can become a useless destruction of resources. It’s more correct to do it in small batches, but pre-conceptualize the production for future developments.
  20. zloyi
    zloyi 1 October 2019 14: 33
    0
    They were in a hurry, there was a parade - they stamped iron from the heart!
  21. dima314
    dima314 1 October 2019 15: 35
    0
    Why do the Chinese produce more fighters? If they have to defend their coast, then all the air defense and these fighters will be enough to repel any mythical blow of amers. No other opponents are expected, and all the more so since the Americans will definitely not fight. For the development of technologies and combat use, 200 pieces are quite enough, and if something else is built a couple more lines and increase production
  22. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 1 October 2019 16: 08
    -3
    The Chinese J-20 cannot be better than our Su-57, moreover, it is worse than 100% Su-35, all these are Chinese advertising marketing moves ......
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 44
      0
      This aircraft at the level of the Su 27CM is no more - modern and even more so the fifth generation, the language will not turn to call it.
  23. dgonni
    dgonni 1 October 2019 17: 09
    0
    You can laugh further! If on the fingers, then China begins mass production of self-5 generation. And there is nothing better to identify problems and problems than the operation of a large series.
    Mig-15 in the first series was clearly not a masterpiece, although it was tested by the aces of their craft.
    So we are waiting for the Chinese level 6 and quietly buy after 5/7 years. Nothing personal is just a business. Well, the approach to the problem essno.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 1 October 2019 22: 46
      -1
      The sixth China will also buy from Russia, as it will buy the Su 57 in the future.
  24. ZVS
    ZVS 4 October 2019 14: 22
    -1
    Quote: Vadim237
    Don’t worry, it won’t be lost - as almost all Chinese equipment in quality leaves much to be desired, and all potential customers find it.

    Yes, once the Chinese could only make thermoses and sew towels. It was literally 30 years ago. Now it is the world leader in the production of radio electronics, automotive industry, it has one of the largest fleets in the world, etc. And that's in just 30 years. Nothing new has been created in our country in 30 years, and all "superweapon" developments are Soviet-era projects. You can find on the Internet how a Soviet laser shoots down an LA-17, comparable in size to a light fighter, but you will not find a video where Peresvet shoots down even a toy drone. The parade tank "Armata", on which an immeasurable amount of money was spent, did not appear, but they received a representative of the president from the Uralvanzavod, who was then gradually removed for professional incompetence (after all, tryndetting it all over the country and shouting chants in support of the president is to roll bags) ...
    And so we live by slogans, but on Solovyov’s TV.
  25. ZVS
    ZVS 4 October 2019 14: 25
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    The sixth China will also buy from Russia, as it will buy the Su 57 in the future.

    In addition to gas, China will not buy anything from Russia. He will even buy oil in Iran. But we can’t live without Chinese goods!