The USC told about the construction of a dry dock for "Admiral Kuznetsov"

Dry dock construction works at the 35 shipyard in Murmansk are on schedule, the docking of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov will be on schedule. This was stated by USC President Alexei Rakhmanov.

According to Rakhmanov, the dry dock construction at the 35 shipyard is on schedule, currently 38% of the planned work has already been completed. OSK does not have any fears that the construction schedule will be disrupted.

The docking of Kuznetsov according to the budget will be made in the schedule agreed with the Ministry of Defense. It makes no sense to name specific dates. Today everything is on schedule. Work at the 35 factory is deployed. Technical advancement is 38%. About 15 units of equipment are working at the facility, engaged in the formation of hydraulic structures

- said the head of the USC.

The signing of the agreement on the modernization of the dry dock at the 35 shipyard in Murmansk, which is part of the Zvyozdochka Ship Repair Center, was reported in mid-July of this year. As OSK said then, the modernization of the dock was included in the enterprise upgrade program, but was supposed to start no earlier than 2021 of the year. The acceleration of work in this direction was caused by the flooding on the night of October 30 of 2018 of one of the world's largest floating docks PD-50 at the 82 shipyard in Murmansk and the absence of other production facilities where it would be possible to dock Admiral Kuznetsov.

According to the results of the modernization, the largest dock in Russia will be created for the reception of large ships and ships. The contract’s hydrotechnical works are aimed at the quickest commissioning of the dock so that all deadlines are met, including the repair and delivery of the Admiral Kuznetsov

- stated earlier in the company, which is working on the modernization of the dock.

Comments

[rocket757]

And before, docks of this size were not needed?
What should be considered "businessmen", managers who do not understand that for a BIG COUNTRY, POWER, it is not comme il faut to limit the construction of only small ships ... small people, small plans! Wrong scale !!!

[Thrall]

Who in the subject, why can not PD-41 be used? He is practically with the same performance characteristics.

[Wedmak]

He is far from Kuznetsov. Dragging them to each other in any direction is not an option.

[Mityay65]

And why? What problems should I transfer to Kuznetsov in Vladik through the NSR?
It seems that Kuznetsov is not needed, the admirals are afraid of him like the devil of incense after the famous "smoky" campaign to Syria. But to admit this is not comme il faut, you just have to hide the problem under the rug ...

[Wedmak]

Of course, I’m not a MO and I can only assume ... posting a large ship through the NSR, which is most likely not on the move + in the process of repairing important systems, can be expensive both in money and in the possibility of losing it altogether, including for worsening ice conditions.
Or maybe you are right in something, as an aircraft carrier he is outdated, even despite the modernization. However, it may come in handy to maintain the experience of the decks until the construction of a new ...
The issue of building a new aircraft carrier is a separate issue.

[Mityay65]

Quote: Wedmak

maybe you are right in something, as an aircraft carrier he is outdated

I do not think that Kuznetsov is outdated and did not write this. Kavnetsov’s Tavkr concept is quite robust. Copying the concept of TAVKR by the PRC fleet is a confirmation of this.
But he is in a disgusting technical condition, it is.
They decided not to transfer him to Vladik, I think, from the fear of this ship by the naval authorities, you won’t reap any laurels on it, and you can sink your career ...

[Serg65]

Quote: Mityai65

he is in a disgusting technical condition,

He is in such a state from birth!

Quote: Mityai65

They decided not to transfer him to Vladik, I think, from the fear of this ship by the naval authorities, you won’t reap any laurels on it, and you can sink your career ...

You will make a good science fiction writer.

[Wedmak]

The concept is sound, but the ship itself does not meet modern requirements. At a minimum: we need a modern power plant, catapults working in conjunction with a springboard, new weapons.

Copying the concept of TAVKR by the PRC fleet is a confirmation of this.

I would not focus on the PRC, they have nothing to copy another aircraft carrier. And they cannot yet develop from scratch, even projects are not visible.

[Maz]

From the dead center moved. - already good

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Maz

From the dead center moved. - already good

Put a plus for optimism. When I read:

Work at the 35th plant is deployed. Technical advancement is 38%.

for some reason, lines about the readiness of SP-2 by **% vividly appear before my eyes. And most importantly, bonnets, caps, skullcaps, bras, socks, slippers, slippers and a sea of ​​drooling thrown upwards ...
I have already ceased to believe in any successful outcomes, because for whatever the leadership would take, it either burns, or falls, or disappears. either becomes outdated, or is delayed with start-up, or is carried out with cost overruns, or ...
Complete lack of optimism ... COMPLETE !!! To the bitterest. It seems that "Kuznetsov" is simply doomed ...

[seti]

Earlier in Murmansk they used the foreign-built PD-50 floating dock and everyone was happy. There is a dry dock for aircraft carriers in Nikolaev, but for obvious reasons it is not available. Alas, even under the Soviet Union, it was not possible to invest in the infrastructure of the northern naval bases. Or maybe they just didn’t want to or didn’t have enough funds. “Kuznetsov” is like a street child - there is practically no infrastructure for him in the north. He always stood at the plant number 35. Thank God that something began to change in this regard in the Far East with the construction of "Zvezda" with its dock and the fact that at last the case moved in Murmansk.
I hope in this dock not only repairs will be made to our only aircraft carrier, submarines, but also the construction of other ships.

[rocket757]

Quote: Maz

From the dead center moved. - already good

Good, but it moved when the "roasted rooster pecked" where necessary!

Quote: alstr

Good but not enough.

And this is true. Without appropriate docks, sufficient construction capacities, any plans can be built, but how to implement them AS?

Quote: lucul

Well, where are these all-crawlers?

Okay, they haven’t gone anywhere, but where were all those responsible and planners? The question is much more interesting!

Quote: NOMADE

Well, yes, why haven’t this work been done before?

The question is of course interesting.

[Serg65]

Quote: rocket757

moved when the "roasted rooster pecked" where necessary!

Everything suited everyone up to the rooster, there were enough other problems!

Quote: rocket757

Without appropriate docks, sufficient construction capacities, any plans can be built, but how to implement them AS?

Murmansk is already 100 years old, judging by your words, claims must be presented to everyone starting from Nicholas II and ending with Putin!

Quote: rocket757

The question is of course interesting.

Honestly, the question is stupid! Ship repair facilities satisfied everyone!

[rocket757]

Quote: Serg65

Honestly, the question is stupid! Ship repair facilities satisfied everyone!

Honestly, to live and plan only REPAIR of what was built before, with a very clever decision / idea to admit NO! Or have you been taught differently?
It looks like different "universities" passed .... it happens!

[Serg65]

Quote: rocket757

Honestly, to live and plan only REPAIR of what was built before, with a very clever decision / idea to admit NO!

Do you just blame or debate?

Quote: rocket757

Or have you been taught differently?

We were all taught something and somehow

Quote: rocket757

it happens!

Someone is interested in the process, but for someone the process is not important, ordinary grumbling is important ... it happens!

[rocket757]

Started talking about stupidity, get an answer .... We were well taught, we won’t substitute the second cheek at all, try to get on the first one.
By the way, universities passed exactly different ones, because they taught us not this, but specifically and qualitatively.

[Serg65]

Quote: rocket757

we won’t substitute the second cheek at all, try to get on the first one.

And I need it?

Quote: rocket757

taught us not this, but specifically and qualitatively.

Maybe you and the specialist are unsurpassed in the anti-aircraft missile theme, I will not argue. But in the topic of the naval and in the method of analysis of what is happening around you, I'm sorry, move in!
And the officer did not have to build an institute girl from himself!
I have the honor!

[rocket757]

Just a discussion / argument without claiming an absolute opinion.
Not naval, this is true, but the specifics of the service \ work is .... intelligence / airspace control system !!! He worked upgraded / installed on boats, cruisers, icebreakers .... it’s not difficult to guess where he went, where he worked. The theme of the FLEET is not a stranger to me, and most importantly, FOR THE POWER, IT IS HAPPY!
PS ... I will never start the first showdown, especially insulting, but I will ALWAYS answer ... if the dialogue does not turn into frankly stupid yapping, then complete ignore.
Yes, if I was wrong, insulted, not justified ..... always apologize. It should be

[Povelitel_buri]

To build a dock you need a shipyard, and there is only a shipyard. So do not have unrealistic expectations. A ship repair dock is needed there, and it will be busy there all the time. So there can be no talk of any construction of ships.

[rocket757]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

Dock needed ship repair there

Remoteness from the main production base of the country, complicated and expensive delivery of everything, everything !!! Logistics let us down. But there is a fleet!

[Mityay65]

The story of the drowning of the PD-50 is generally stupid, but understandable - the usual sloppiness, from which no one is safe ...
But the story of the rise of PD-50, it is already becoming enchanting shame.
A kiss has passed a year, floating ship is a vessel specially built for self-flooding and self-raising; not to raise it in a year and not to repair it is a shame!
A dry dock is not an option; it is not as flexible to use as a floating one. In addition, the dry dock will be used for the construction of ships, respectively, before launching, there can be no talk of repair. Efficiency of using Kuznetsov is lost. As a result, you will have to spend money on both dry and floating ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mityai65

In addition, a dry dock will be used for the construction of ships

What ships were built or will be built at this SHIP REPAIR plant?

[Mityay65]

Quote: Piramidon

Which ships

Marine, of course.
There is only one scoop of this size throughout the theater, which requires dock repair in Murmansk. This is Kuzya.
And one ship - the Northern Sea Route. But for the Northern Sea Route and the icebreakers LK-60 a dock has already been ordered, EMNIP.
Do you think that the reconstruction and modernization of the USC dock is carried out to repair one Kuzi?
I think their idea is more interesting - they will build large ships, earn money ... The dock will not be empty.

[Povelitel_buri]

Lifting PD-50 will not look like a shame if you understand the complexity of lifting a structure of tens of thousands of tons from a depth of more than 30 meters. If you believed in Rakhmanov's encouraging statements, then for you now it is a surprise and "shame".

A dry dock is not an option; it is not as flexible to use as a floating one. In addition, the dry dock will be used for the construction of ships, respectively, before launching, there can be no talk of repair.

dry dock is more flexible than floating dock, because he will be able to take a large load, he may have a separation batoport, with which you can leave the second part of the dock dry and take the vessels out of the first. And in order to build a dock you need a shipyard, and here only a shipyard, so only repair

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Mityai65

A kiss has passed a year, floating ship is a vessel specially built for self-flooding and self-raising; not to raise it in a year and not to repair it is a shame!

You simply do not understand the complexity of this procedure. And she, it must be said, is the most complicated, much more complicated than lifting a ship of equal weight: its lifting is not a year, it is years. By the way, even before lifting it is necessary to study in detail the position and condition of the dock - it is likely that it is no longer possible to return it to operation as a dock

[Mityay65]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

Lifting the PD-50 will not look like a shame, if you understand the complexity of lifting the structure to tens of thousands of tons from a depth of more than 30 meters.

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You simply do not understand the complexity of this procedure. And she, I must say, is the most complicated, much more complex

I think you specifically exaggerate.
Initially, the decision was "to raise it unconditionally," Comrade Manturov announced. Why were all the world's largest ship-lifting companies invited, which, having turned the Ministry of Industry and Trade for several months, jumped out of sin. Probably because of the sanctions. The last to leave were the Chinese, who, as you know, never give up anything. These, they say, were driven away by Rosneft itself, which owns the dock and should, in theory, be more concerned with the fate of the PD-50. The Chinese were asking too much, the price of lift + repair was comparable to the price of a new dock, according to Rosneft. So by May, the idea was born that a new dock should be built.
But Rosneft this PD-50 dock was never really needed. She’s basically happy to get rid of him forever, like a headache. She was happy with everything, she did not need a new or old docks. Rosneft, hike, jumped off.
Here, all kinds of people began to say that it was possible to lift and repair the dock by the forces of Russian enterprises and specialized units of the Navy. Why do we need to put off a tender for a dock lift project without delay. There are people, firms and desire.
The competition was not held (but where to rush?), But one respected office of the Research Institute of Ascension, old and wise, bungled on the knee Avan project. The project allows eliminating the backlog of Russian technical solutions from foreign ones and not involving foreign companies in raising the PD-50. No difficulties, no years of hard work, the dock has special facilities for flooding and lifting. We need funds to finalize the project and we need responsibility for making a decision: either to prepare a lift project or tow it to Vladik.
Rosneft went into denial. Officials embarrassed and began to wait for the weather by the sea. The naval ones were concealed.
Here the USC helped everyone with the idea of ​​rebuilding its dock for the needs of the fleet. And she probably said at the same time: "Give me money!", But this was understood correctly. And probably this idea is working now. Of course, it would have been possible without problems in August, when the NSR is completely free of ice, to tow Kuzya to Vladik, but apparently not destiny ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: Mityai65

Initially, the decision was "to raise unconditionally", said Comrade Manturov

This character voiced a lot of things then, remember at least his passage that "Kuznetsov" can be docked in the northern dock of Sevastopol, yeah. There "Baku" barely got up.
It is really necessary to lift "unconditionally", they will simply raise the scrap metal in fact. Therefore, there is nowhere to rush. Knowing what state the PD-50 was already in then, also his birth trauma, how he drowned and to what depth and in what position he was, it was possible even then, after these first details, to understand that there was nothing about any quick lifting and all the more, commissioning was out of the question.
Therefore, any statements by Manturovs and Rakhmnovs were no more than a good mine with a bad game.

Quote: Mityai65

So by May the idea was born that you need to build a new dock.

The idea was born a little earlier nevertheless - at the end of March they announced that they would reconstruct the docks of the 35th shipyard. Not even six months had passed until they made the ONLY in this situation REASONABLE decision. NOT buying a floating dock abroad (you can’t build one at home), not docking the TAVKR in the PD-41 or PD-190, not other nonsense, namely the creation of FINALLY normal infrastructure for the fleet, both combat and icebreaking.
By the way, about the timing. I hope everyone remembers Rakhmanov's previous statements about the Kuznetsov docking schedule and its commissioning? So let's see again what his statements are worth.

[Mityay65]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

they’ll just raise scrap in fact.

I do not agree with you.
With normal repair and modernization, the dock will last up to 100 years. The rise to carry out on their own is quite possible. The service life for a slow-moving vessel should be calculated by thinning the metal of the underwater part; the running gear is not there. As the experience of the Commune shows, this is all right, another 100 are like, pah-pah))).
Manturov is interested in developing the capacity of the USC, and in general, he does not care deeply for Kuzya and the fleet. In particular, the simple fact that the operational areas of Kuzma for the future are the Mediterranean and Arabian Seas, the Persian Gulf, and the South China Sea.
He is needed there, not in the North. And the basing of the Tavkr Kuznetsov to Sevastopol - Tartus is more reasonable, so the float deck will need to be towed there. I had this in mind when I wrote that a dry dock is not as flexible in operational terms as a floating one. A dry dock at the 35th plant should be left to USC for their purposes (they will be assembled from the blocks of the vessel for the NSR, IMHO).
The fleet should deal with the issue of docking Kuzi and raising the PD-50. All decisions should be his, not the notorious Manturov and Rakhmanov (why don’t you recall Sechin from Rosneft?). The fact that the fleet allowed such a state of affairs when the issues of repairing warships in the hands of these people is a shame! And the naval authorities and the Defense Ministry should be responsible for the situation. Not Manturov and Rakhmanov, they decide their affairs.

The idea was born a little earlier nevertheless - at the end of March they announced that they would reconstruct the docks of the 35th shipyard.

Initially, the reconstruction of the 35th shipyard is an OSK affair that has nothing to do with Kuzya. There are their ideas and their goals. It’s just that the clever guys Manturov and Rakhmanov made a fuss and circled around the finger the fools from the command of the fleet and the Moscow Region. And now, for the money to lift and repair the dock, the 35th shipyard will be reconstructed. Perfectly!
In May, they began to discuss the purchase or construction, called the GCC Gulf and China, the dock for Kuzi. The float dock for its purposes, EMNIP, Rosatom ordered in the Gulf.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Mityai65

I think you specifically exaggerate.

Let's see. You write

Quote: Mityai65

The Chinese asked too much, the price of lift + repair was comparable to the price of a new dock

In my opinion, this fully confirms my point of view

Quote: Mityai65

Why were invited all the world's largest ship-raising firms, which, having been purging the Ministry of Industry and Trade for several months, jumped away from sin. Probably due to sanctions.

This is just a hunch. But in fact, they really couldn’t take it because of the complexity of the work - for many years, it is probably deformed and lifted so that it can be put into operation later ...

[VALERIK_097]

Initially, it was moored and added to Vidyaevo (for information)

[ser56]

Quote: seti

Alas, even with the Union, investing in the infrastructure of the northern naval bases did not work.

Namely, now they began to build and again did not please the sofa experts ...

[Serg65]

Quote: rocket757

And before, docks of this size were not needed?

I do not want to upset, but even during the Soviet Union they did not think about the need for such a dock in the North.

[rocket757]

Quote: Serg65

I do not want to upset, but even during the Soviet Union they did not think about the need for such a dock in the North.

The USSR had shipbuilding, ship repairing facilities in Nikolaev, it’s understandable, it was justified, it historically happened! Now their bye bye. Remains the Baltic and the Far East .... but the north how, there now one of our main fleets is based there, LIVE can be said!

[Serg65]

Quote: rocket757

The USSR had shipbuilding, ship repair facilities in Nikolaev,

And they drove Krechetov around Europe, and some around the Earth to Nikolaev ... but they didn't even want to hear about "on-site repairs"!

Quote: rocket757

and the north, then there is now one of our main fleets based

AND? Does this fleet have nowhere to live?

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

there, after all, now one of our main fleets

if not a secret, but in your opinion during the Soviet Socialist Republic the Federation Council was contingent? A type of Caspian flotilla?

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

Quote: rocket757

there, after all, now one of our main fleets

if not a secret, but in your opinion during the Soviet Socialist Republic the Federation Council was contingent? A type of Caspian flotilla?

We were well taught .... part of the USSR’s vigorous triad was based on the servers! This is the ocean fleet!
There is no way to compare with the Caspian flotilla.
In addition, the entire icebreaker atom fleet is there .....
Its specifics, its horizons, very, very wide horizons.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

We were well taught

you flatter yourself ...

Quote: rocket757

on серверах part of the vigorous triad of the USSR was based

it must be cast in metal! Suppose 667 (A to BRDM) and 941 were purely virtual?

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

Suppose 667 (A to BRDM) and 941 were purely virtual?

What is the meaning of the question? Where "Dolphins", "Sharks" and others were based ... ... obviously not on the Caspian Sea.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

What is the meaning of the question?

to show, let’s say, the strangeness of your message that in the days of the USSR the Federation Council was not the main thing ...

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

Quote: rocket757

What is the meaning of the question?

to show, let’s say, the strangeness of your message that in the days of the USSR the Federation Council was not the main thing ...

WHERE???
He simply indicated the remoteness of the SF from the main production and scientific centers.
The specifics of many of our northern territories, which are very IMPORTANT for the national economy, the country, but because of their remoteness, inaccessibility, do not develop as "easily" as other, more central territories. In the USSR, they acted in spite of the difficulties of nature, when there was a need, "Sevmash" is a vivid example of this.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

WHERE???

Well, if you are so forgetful:
"and how the north, there after all now one of our main fleetsx is based, LIVE you can say! "rocket757 (Victor) September 24, 2019 14:54

[rocket757]

I have a "copy" in my service, likes to speculate for others, to finish talking! Almost never guesses, but persistently attributes his strange thoughts to others.
I ascertained the fact of the loss for Russia of a large shipyard, which Kukuevo is finishing in the country and complained that our state, nowadays, did not care enough about the Servers !!! And we have an ocean fleet there, part of the country's vigorous shield !!!!
THAT'S ALL.
I can add, the current ones ..... the upper ones did not care much about anything, for the time being! Until their foreign "kolleks" poked them well into a particularly stinking substance! And then the majority did not understand where they were shown their place.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

but stubbornly ascribes

Are you talking about a direct quote from you? This "now" is 60 years old ...

Quote: rocket757

did not care enough about Servers

if it’s not a secret, you are talking about:
1) serial construction of nuclear and conventional icebreakers?
2) About the creation of air defense and anti-ship missile defense zones in the Arctic and on the islands in the Arctic?
3) On the development of the NSR, which exceeded the cargo turnover in the USSR?
4) On the restoration of the Northern latitudinal railway and new ports in the Arctic?
etc....
I don’t see the point to continue the list - you perceive reality very strangely ...

Quote: rocket757

there is the ocean fleet, part of the country's vigorous shield !!!!

in my opinion, placing nuclear weapons on a nuclear submarine is now a mistake ... because expensive and distracts the fleet from other tasks in the threatened period - i.e. the fleet goes on the defensive ...

Quote: rocket757

generally cared for little, for the time being!

there is such an expression - stretch your legs for clothes .... and ditching a weakened country with beautiful poses is not a problem ... I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the life of Alexander Nevsky ... well, Mikhail Tversky for comparison ...

Quote: rocket757

And then the majority did not get where they indicated the place.

usually ordinary people consider themselves the smartest ...

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

usually ordinary people consider themselves the smartest

Well, yes, and the highest ones are smart, the fear takes it.
When did they realize that the support of the state is the internal well-being and economic power of their country? Question, did Amelie understand this?
When it came to them that they had to live according to their own laws and not allow all sorts of "international" to poke their noses in here ... the question, did everyone get it?
Hodor recently launched a 50 Lard lawsuit !!!! who was supported by "international" ??? They will again arrest the property of our state throughout the "progressive" world. Here will be joy ... again and again!
The facts of the "glorious" deeds of our "mud-d-dreets" I can bring a wagon and a small cart!
Listen to the performance of the "iPhone" as recently as yesterday !!! Every sane person spits, swears, for the umpteenth time.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

Well, yes, and the highest ones are smart, the fear takes it.

Communicated to the level of deputy. Minister - not very stupid people ...

Quote: rocket757

it is the internal wealth and economic power of YOUR country

I note that now they understand this much better than during the Soviet era! We do not build for free (in non-repayable credit from proletarian solidarity) hundreds of factories in China / Egypt further down the list and do not supply weapons according to the same scheme ... while our people live, to put it mildly, not very .... At present time we at least feed ourselves, not US farmers

Quote: rocket757

That will be joy

something from masochism ...

Quote: rocket757

The facts of the "glorious" deeds of our "mud-d-dreets" I can bring a wagon and a small cart!

go to the store, remember the Soviet ... if you don’t mark the difference, then I recommend to the doctor ... however, autumn, I understand ...

Quote: rocket757

Listen to the performance of the "iPhone" as recently as yesterday !!! Every sane person spits, swears, for the umpteenth time.

remember the LIB's speeches about the economical economy and the Food Program ... to the sane, they offer alternatives, rather than clinging to details ...
I will answer that you kept silent about the modern development of "Servers" ...

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

I will answer that you kept silent about the modern development of "Servers" ...

Let me remind you, for those who read very carefully ..... specially indicated that it was for the time being ... time.
As they began to receive a shock from overseas, from foreign "partners", sanctions and all the accompanying, they began to deal with their economy more or less reasonably. It was necessary to specify the date, since when and what had to be done?
If you are so included in various rooms, you yourself know when and what began to happen.
About the USSR, I do not idealize everything that happened. Especially the late period. I then lived, traveled ALL the country. I met with very serious officials .... and so what? In personal communication, at work, they are quite reasonable, competent people .... but the vices of the entire system brought the country to ... "marked", and then even worse.
We live NOW and the most important thing for us is happening here and now!
Vaughn "ayfonchik with comrades" canceled the decree of the Soviets about an 8 hour working day !!! What do you think is an achievement? Signed / ratified the Paris protocol! Is it impossible to deal with ecology without such "international ambushes" ??? Nonsense of a gray mare, another ambush against our statehood!
In short, it’s very easy for the country to fall down with these, that does not mean where! They are not statesmen, not for our power .....

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

Vaughn "ayfonchik with comrades" canceled the decree of the Soviets about an 8 hour working day !!!

you are sad - we read article 91 of the Labor Code of the Russian Federation "Normal working hours cannot exceed 40 hours per week." Look at Art. 94 for the final understanding of their legal illiteracy ...
I strongly recommend that you read the current legislative standards in the Russian Federation, and not speculate on stupid things ...

Quote: rocket757

but the vices of the entire system brought the country to ... "marked", and then even worse.

the system was originally vicious, bloody and Russophobic ...

Quote: rocket757

Bullshit, another ambush against our sovereignty!

if not a secret - what's wrong with limiting emissions? Do you want to live like in Karabash?

Quote: rocket757

not for our power .....

I do not know what kind of power you have ... I live in Russia, our government is not super, but you can’t call them fools either - the country is developing ...

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

Do you want to live like in Karabash

I live nearby, I work in the city of BIG CHEMISTRY and METALLURGY!
Do you want to surprise me with something? We have allergies in ALL CHILDREN! And a lot of other things, no less "pleasant" .... only now, not everyone can afford a ticket to a children's sanatorium and a CHILDREN'S OLERGOLOGIST, alone, for the whole, almost half a million city !!! You can certainly pay, again, not everyone can afford it!
By the way, how did the "Kyoto protocol" or the "Paris memorandum" interfere with this?
But the cylinders with all kinds of "rubbish" deodorants and so on are filled instead of the excellent freons developed by us, the muck of the DuPont company or flammable gases !!! That is why firefighters don’t SHOULD go to the warehouses of household chemicals when they are on fire, because it’s ADOVA TRAP, to the glory of the foreign "Dupons" and others.

Quote: ser56

you feel sad - read article 91 of the Labor Code

From the state of "naive" he grew up a long time ago, from half a century ago .... our "servants of the people" level / clean up, anything for the sake of the ruling ...
In short, a futile argument.
The power of the rich is also for the rich, and since the COUNTRY is a working people .......
In short, there is nothing to argue about. We are fundamentally different.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

In short, there is nothing to argue about. We are fundamentally different.

it’s clear - everyone is eager for barricades ... forgot how they themselves voted for Yeltsin?

Quote: rocket757

By the way, how did the "Kyoto protocol" or the "Paris memorandum" interfere with this?

this is hindered by fines for emissions and the situation in the country is becoming much better ...

Quote: rocket757

in the city of BIG CHEMISTRY AND METALLURGY!

recall when it was built? and who saved on cleaning?

Quote: rocket757

From the state of "naive" grew up long ago

in other words, there is nothing to say - they made a sketch in the bushes ...

[rocket757]

Quote: ser56

it’s clear that everyone is eager for barricades ... they forgot how they themselves voted for Yeltsin?

He preferred a contender "against all" to the extreme, anyone but the ruling party.

this is hindered by fines for emissions and the situation in the country is becoming much better ...

Ha, ha ... this hinders \ "helps" a significant reduction in production, the destruction of entire industries, which \ some now need to be restored! And it's good when they do everything according to their minds, AS IT IS PUTTED!

Quote: ser56

recall when it was built? and who saved on cleaning?

This is a fact that can not be turned upside down!

Quote: ser56

in other words, there is nothing to say - they made a sketch in the bushes ...

A lot of facts, to write .... WHO raped the preferences we have in the country, and in the world too, when our freons hacked?
A concrete fact, WHERE IS YOUR RESPONSE? or rummage through the bushes?
That's all, it is NOT INTERESTING to me further.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

anyone but the ruling

What am I talking about? what is embarrassing to admit?

Quote: rocket757

when did our freons hack?

taking off your head ... in those years, freons is nothing at all about ...

Quote: rocket757

WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER?

sad with you - it’s not polite to answer a question ... you were caught on a sketch - have the courage to answer for your words ....

Quote: rocket757

That's all, it is NOT INTERESTING to me further.

repeat ... This time I’m tired of you, I investigated you - commonplace - further not curious ...

[Povelitel_buri]

[quote] but even during the USSR they did not think about the need for such a dock in the North. / quote]
You are mistaken - not only thought, but also began to build on the territory of the 82nd shipyard. We managed to bring the whole rock to zero.

[Serg65]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

You are mistaken - not only thought, but also began to build

When did you start building?

[Povelitel_buri]

In the late 80s, when they began to prepare the infrastructure for project 1143.7, because the PD-50 was no longer able to accept such a colossus.

[Serg65]

Those. from 1976 to the end of the 80s, was everyone happy with everything? And only the bookmark of Ulyanovsk exposed the problem ... strange is not it?

[Povelitel_buri]

In the early 80s, the PD-50 came to the SF, which covered all the needs. And when they gave the green light to pr. 1143.7, they began work on the dry dock.

[Serg65]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

In the early 80's PD-50 came to the SF

Those. Until 50, did the PD-1988 suit everyone? Well, that's what I talked about. And the fact that in the 88th they decided to build a dock for Ulnovsk is the result of the development of the Northern Fleet in the very dawn of the life of the USSR. Now there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: Serg65

Well, that's what I talked about

Well, not quite:

Quote: Serg65

but even during the USSR they did not think about the need for such a dock in the North

All the same, they thought, but then, when quite pressed. It’s just that they used numerous floating docks before: the whole Northern Fleet and the entire icebreaking fleet and many more were docked in them.
The results of such a passion for floating docks are visible on the face, because the PD-50 is not the first floating dock that went under water in Murmansk:
https://zen.yandex.ru/media/severpost/plavdok-v-murmanske-idet-na-dno-zaliva-video-5bdc356801613e00a972c0a2
Conclusion - floating docks are more demanding for operation than dry docks, and in the case when the qualification of the maintenance personnel falls, the accident rate increases several times if not an order of magnitude.

Quote: Serg65

Now there would be no happiness, but misfortune helped

to the point!

[ser56]

Even with IVS, they laid the type 23 LC with a total displacement of 65ct ... and the dock? Let me remind you that under the tsar, simultaneously with the laying of Sevastopol, a dock was built in Kronstadt ...

[Civil]

Yeah ... road spoon for dinner.

[ser56]

Quote: rocket757

And before, docks of this size were not needed?
What to consider "businessmen

why not start demand earlier, for example, from the time of Brezhnev?

[alstr]

Good but not enough.
We need to have such docks in each fleet, and preferably a few.
This is necessary not only for the construction of large ships, but also for the repair and maintenance of existing ones.

PS By the way, while we do not have a sufficient number of such docks, it makes no sense to build the same aircraft carriers. Otherwise, it turns out the following: there is an aircraft carrier, but there is nowhere to serve it.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: alstr

By the way, while we don’t have enough of these docks, then it makes no sense build the same aircraft carriers. Otherwise, it turns out the following: there is an aircraft carrier, but there is nowhere to serve it.

Some members (possibly from the Medvedev government) went to the VO website and constantly minus all those who express thoughts that contain at least some logic ...
It's a pity that these "bad people" cannot be seen by their names ...

[Serg65]

Quote: alstr

Otherwise, it turns out the following: there is an aircraft carrier, but there is nowhere to serve it.

It was with a planned economy that you could build anything you like, and then preserve it anything until better times, now it doesn’t work! You first lay the aircraft carrier, and think about the dock too!

[alstr]

Why preserve it. Do we have large ships that need to be repaired?
Or do we not need to build them (hi destroyer Leader)?
Or do we have a short repair time for large ships?

For reference, look at how much time American aircraft carriers spend on docks - from 20 to 40% of their service life.

So it turns out that on average 1 dock will serve 3-4 ships.

[ROSS_51]

Ships are not built on the docks.
Why do you need such docks in each fleet, and even a few pieces? Do we have many large ships for such giant docks? Or are we planning to build several aircraft carriers?

[alstr]

How to say. A little, but for some reason they always do not have enough space in the docks for repair and maintenance.
At the same time, the "progressive community" demands to build more ships of the ocean zone, but where they will be serviced (and for a start, just built) is somehow omitted.

And this we still did not take into account the basing issue, and here everything is not very good with us.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: alstr

We need to have such docks in each fleet, and preferably a few.

Please tell me, why do you need several such docks on the Baltic Sea? On black?

[alstr]

Well, in the Baltic it may not be necessary to have a few, although it is also a difficult question.
But on the Black Sea it may well come in handy if we want to have large ships in the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic.

Just the quantity depends on what we want to have.

[lucul]

According to Rakhmanov, dry dock construction at the 35th shipyard is on schedule, 38% of the planned work has now been completed

Well, where are these all-crawlers? )))
Quietly and without noise - for a year at 38% of work ...
However, like everything with Putin-quietly and without noise)))

[Mestny]

As where? On the spot.
We have already unsubscribed that:
1. The bad government started building late (they don't say how many of them the “good” government had).
2. Poor power builds a little, you need 100500 pieces.

[NOMADE]

Well, yes, why wasn't this work done before? And I am especially amused, I quote - "15 pieces of equipment are working." Awesome !! As many as 15 units! Powerful!
I would be ashamed to talk about such a "power of technology", because I myself am connected with construction. And the construction of the dock ... implies a different scale.

[lucul]

And I am especially amused, I quote - "15 pieces of equipment are working." Awesome !! As many as 15 units! Powerful!
I would be ashamed to talk about such a "power of technology", because I myself am connected with construction.

It depends on what is considered a technique)))
For some, a forklift truck is a technique, and for someone a crane, with a lifting capacity of a couple of thousand tons.
It depends on what you count ...

[NOMADE]

Yes, but the practice of such statements on the part of public servants is depressing unfortunately (there a jackhammer can be prescribed per unit of equipment). As a positive example, the construction on the Star (Big Stone), everything is serious there (although there are problems there), there are hundreds of pieces of equipment and thousands of workers. Agree, this is not 15 pieces of equipment.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: NOMADE

construction on the Star (Big Stone), there everything is serious

From the heart. The construction of a large shipbuilding complex of federal significance with all the infrastructure and the modernization (not even construction) of one, moreover, an already finished structure.
Drive a few thousand to the dock? The trouble is the trouble ... It, of course, is understandable: a darling of scale asks, but, damn it, everything should be adequate and consistent. And the involved capacities are fully consistent with the technological process at the moment. So more thoroughly, more thoroughly - speculation as derivatives of Wishlist will not give a real picture.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: NOMADE

Well, yes, why haven’t this work been done before?

And because before there was a PD-50. And everything suited everyone - both in Soviet times and later. There were plans to modernize the dock at 35 shipyard, but remained plans.
It’s just that the main issue for us has always been the issue of building ships. And the technical support of their further service has always been on the sidelines. The same dock at factory 402 appeared primarily as outfitting - to ensure the construction of the LK Ave. 23.

[Serg65]

Quote: Alexey RA

everything suited everyone - both in Soviet times and later. There were plans to modernize the dock at 35 shipyard, but remained plans.

Oh, who cares .....

[Povelitel_buri]

In a recent video from there it was noticed that they are still dismantling the jumper between the docks. There is enough work there, therefore, specific dates are not announced, because they all went right long ago. And their schedule seems to be conditional, because correction can always be agreed upon. It turns out that the dates are shifting, but they still remain in the schedule

[Piramidon]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

There is enough work there, therefore, specific dates are not announced, because they all went right long ago

So far, they have not gone anywhere, since the work plan is not yet to begin.

Dock modernization was included in the enterprise renewal program, but was supposed to start no earlier than 2021.

[Povelitel_buri]

So these are the previous graphs, where are they now? A new schedule for the construction of a dry dock has already been agreed upon - now they promise to finish it by 2021. True, this time Rakhmanov is careful with dates.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: lucul

Well, where are these all-crawlers? )))
Quietly and without noise - for a year at 38% of work ...
However, like everything with Putin-quietly and without noise)))

Are you being specially fed somewhere? As is usual with Putin - quietly, without noise ... You, young patriot, wait for the final stage, since 38% of the planned work does not necessarily mean 38% of the object's readiness ... I can remind you of the last "quiet affairs". Prepare a hat, pour:
SSJ-100, the famous "Baikal" (tvs-2dts), quiet and invisible (with two iotaphon screens ... And tell about the reduction of officials by 20% quietly so that no one notices this reduction?
You talkers, ready to laugh at the sight of the “leader's” raised finger, are simply tired of listening and reading. You have a bunch of things: high-paid positions, comfortable housing, and a car of the latest brand, and children attached, and a wife's business, and a house abroad in case of departure, and for some reason the people around are not happy about it. Here are the ungrateful!

[Saul_Rhen]

But the patriots are waiting for everything - and the bridge to the Crimea and Olympic facilities and superjets in marketable quantities, and much more. And all sorts of kaloedi at the "final stage" very quickly get lost or begin to whine about something else. The main thing is to write about the mode. How much there is similar to you aching bio-waste. Minus.

[Ross xnumx]

Quote: Saul_Rhen

The main thing is to write about mode. How many similar aching biomass is there to you? Minus.

I’ve baked it myself - eat it yourself!

Unlike you, screaming tantrums and gorlopans, people with deep analytical thinking, experience and work, and leadership are meeting on the site. Their opinion is interesting. They speak on the basis of personal experience and knowledge, and not according to the paragraph of the training manual.
I will give you information, and you will reflect, if there is anything. Today, the NTV program covered a plot on digitalization of agriculture in the Voronezh region. They showed the technique on the verge of fiction. The machine operator only needs to set the direction, the rest is done by the computer. Investments are very large, but the return (according to the head) is high. if on a circle in the region the yield is 35 centners per hectare (grain), then in this farm - 60 centners per hectare. How is it?

My dear uncle in the village worked as a machine operator all his life. Then there was a farming, but there was never such a technique. I was sincerely happy ... Yes, early. It turns out that with an increase in yield, the gross harvest of grain increases, and its (purchase) price falls. In the USSR, this would have been welcomed, because there the price of bread was low, and the low cost of grain gives a good profit. Just not today. Farmers need to pay for fuel and lubricants, loans, get income, but what income with a low purchase price? And I will give you a 146% guarantee that the price of bread in the store will not fall (by analogy with sunflower oil, which cost 30 rubles per liter, then, due to the "poor harvest", it became more expensive, and it remained expensive) ...
Well, how is this positive news for the farmer? Will he be fed with my joy for a digital tractor?

[Saul_Rhen]

Are you alright? Why is this stream of consciousness here? Reread your comments, then the article, then the comments again, then the article again. Do not see the mismatch? Or did you decide to 100% match my description and just whine on a different topic? Better not remember about agriculture in the USSR. Seriously. And often knock yourself on the head.

[Doctor]

if on a circle in the region the yield is 35 centners per hectare (grain), then in this farm - 60 centners per hectare. How is it?

No way. Productivity does not depend on who steers a person or a computer with a tractor. Weather, fertilizers, watering, pest control, and most importantly - the quality of the seeds. If you found the loot for digitalization, then you took Canadian Gatino seeds, drove Dow Chemical fertilizers into the ground at your most unnecessary, and even kept the fields for a year under the pairs, and here you have 60 centners. And upstairs they reported that it was a supercomputer, they want to knock out the dough again. I think it will work out.

[ROSS_51]

There is not construction, but reconstruction. Old docks connect / lengthen, and that's 38% for you. 15 pieces of equipment with a contract value of 20 billion? It’s funny.
They make a temporary dam in order to drive Kuznetsov and quickly repair it, so as not to delay the repair time, and then they will finish the dock ... Three more years.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: lucul

Quietly and without noise - for a year at 38% of work ...

It makes no sense to name specific dates.

Can you name Rakhmanov instead of what you did there? On the 38%, the jumper was broken, or only on 38% the equipment was caught?

[for]

Quote: lucul

According to Rakhmanov,

[evgen1221]

In the north, under the Aviks, the infrastructure was not built during the union because- (my opinion) that it was not particularly needed, repair in Nikolaev, basing and reloading in Vladik, Comran, Cuba, etc., operating in the Atlantic and quiet. So they didn’t build it because nobody thought that they would betray us like that and ruin everything.

[ROSS_51]

Quote: alstr

How to say. A little, but for some reason they always do not have enough space in the docks for repair and maintenance.

Where did you get the data that there is always not enough space on the docks? In the Soviet Union, ships were repaired and based many times more, so there was enough space. But there is an acute shortage of professional personnel.

Quote: alstr

At the same time, the "progressive community" demands to build more ships of the ocean zone, but where they will be serviced (and for a start, just built) is somehow omitted.

A progressive public may stumble between the pillows of their couch and continue to demand .. there too. All this is chatter on open spaces of a network, no more.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: ROSS_51

In the Soviet Union, ships were repaired and based many times more, so there was enough space.

In the Soviet Union, the queue for ship repairs was stretched so much that some ships from the overhaul went to the sludge or even directly to the "needles".

[ROSS_51]

Just do not substitute concepts. Who talked about overhaul, is it average? There have been many such cases. in Soviet Union? Proofs in the studio.

[Tests]

Serg65 (Sergey), dear, so in the 70s in the North at Sevmash only 55 shop appeared, and at "Zvezdochka" - shop 15. No one in a nightmare then could have imagined that Sevmash in 90-2000 would be tugs for the Dutch and for the Norwegians to build floating fish-breeding factories in order to somehow load people to repair diesel locomotives and plates - numbers for houses to bend and paint ... "Losharik" how many were built? And who could have "discerned" the fate of the "Sharks" from the 70s, and the fate of the nuclear cruiser Kirov, in the 80s, who could have imagined? Some were cut on needles, some are still rotting ...

[Serg65]

Quote: Tests

respected, so in the 70s in the North at Sevmash only 55 shop appeared, and at "Zvezdochka" - shop 15

Eugene, in the 77th TAVKR Kiev comes to the Northern Fleet, in the 80th TARKR Kirov, in the 87th TAVKR Baku, in the 88th TARKR Frunze, in the 92nd TAVKR Kuznetsov, in the same 92nd expected TARKR Yuri Andropov, in the 93rd ATAVKR was expected in Ulyanovsk. What do you think, with such a saturation of the fleet with large-tonnage ships, it was necessary to think about their basing and repair in the basing places from the moment the construction of these ships began?

Quote: Tests

No one in a nightmare could imagine

The conversation is not about what happened later, but about the fact that initially the leadership of the Ministry of Defense and the government of the USSR did not see this as a problem! Now some "great experts of everyone and everything" are trying to hang all the dogs on the modern government, turning a blind eye to the deeds of former leaders!

Quote: Tests

Part - cut into needles

This period has passed a black stripe and in my destiny!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Serg65

Eugene, in the 77th TAVKR Kiev comes to the Northern Fleet, in the 80th TARKR Kirov, in the 87th TAVKR Baku, in the 88th TARKR Frunze, in the 92nd TAVKR Kuznetsov, in the same 92nd expected TARKR Yuri Andropov, in the 93rd ATAVKR was expected in Ulyanovsk. What do you think, with such a saturation of the fleet with large-tonnage ships, it was necessary to think about their basing and repair in the basing places from the moment the construction of these ships began?

Remember the Ural, for which, after arriving at the Pacific Fleet, there was no berth. As, however, and for the pair of TAVKR who came before him.

[Serg65]

Quote: Alexey RA

You still remember about "Ural"

Oh, Alexei, if you remember everything, then many will get the nuts !!!

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Well, that's good. TAVKR "Admiral Kuznetsov" must be put into operation, the pilot must be trained on a real ship. Until new ones are built, this ship will still serve Russia.

[16112014nk]

There would be no happiness, but misfortune helped. Whatever is done is all for the best.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: 16112014nk

There would be no happiness, but misfortune would help. Whatever is done is all for the better.

Banality for banality: if it has disappeared somewhere, it will certainly arrive somewhere.

[Romario_Argo]

a photo of the reconstruction of the docks, digging in OK

[Sether]

Everything will be clear five years to build a dock and two more years to repair an aircraft carrier. In general, we are waiting for Kuznetsov in 2227 if something else happens

[KrolikZanuda]

Interestingly, the dock at the USC also sank on schedule?

[Serg65]

Quote: KrolikZanuda

Interestingly, the dock at the USC also sank on schedule?

Who did the doc belong to?

[polar bear]

"The USC has no fears that the construction schedule will be disrupted." And right there, "There is no point in giving specific dates." - How do you understand if there is a construction schedule?

[Tests]

Serg65 (Sergei), dear, I have never been to either the Ministry of Justice Industry or the USSR Ministry of Defense. I don’t know what and how they planned in the 70-80s of the 20th century. I heard a bike on Zvezdochka that half of workshop 15, where “Podmoskovye” was tortured for many years, was originally planned to be built for the Murmansk region in “Nerpa”. But it was already in the 90s .... In the 90s, there were a lot of conversations about Sevmash, and about Zvezdochka, they say, we are modernizing the Zvezdochka dock and the Sevmash pool, and icebreakers and aircraft carriers, how to bake pies ..
"Gorshkov" after the modernization was taken out of the pool only thanks to the skill of the captains of the tugs of the "water" workshop of Sevmash. The gate is quite narrow ...
Povelitel_buri (Anton), dear, "Zvezdochka" is like the Ship Repair Center, but also PSKR pr. 16900 (which was previously done by the SRZ "Krasnaya Kuznitsa" in Arkhangelsk) and trawlers of project 50010, and after "Zvezdochka" two "academicians" were sent to the seas. And also the launching table was made for the "Angara" rocket in Mirny, and the floating plant for the production of vitamin flour (in the Severnaya Dvina delta it was wonderful on the islands it worked for many years), and the "Arctic" jack-up drilling platform. And for many years, bruliks have been cut from diamonds ... And Shipyard No. 176 in Arkhangelsk made both a self-propelled barge and pilot ships.
Alexey RA (Alexey), you are right, the story with "Ural" is sadder than sad. At the Pacific Fleet, it seems that everything is worse and nastier than it was at Kola during the USSR ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Eugene, I do not understand what you objected to

[Tests]

Povelitel_buri (Anton), dear, I believe that if the "leaders" of the USC so desired, it would be possible to establish the production of ships at the Kola, and not only repair. You wrote: "To build a shipyard in the dock, and there is only a shipyard. So you shouldn't place unrealistic hopes. The dock there needs a ship repair dock, it will be busy there all the time. So there can be no question of building ships." " I remember how in the first months of the formation of the USC they decided what the Northern Center would do, what kind of projects and projects were not proposed then! Therefore, I wrote about how ships and vessels were built and built at the shipyard.