Military Review

Two BMD crashed in the exercises "Center-2019", the cause of the failure of parachute systems is established

340
After the end of the large-scale Center-2019 exercises, it turned out that an incident occurred while landing BMD on one of the training grounds in the Orenburg region. The press service of the Ministry of Defense confirmed the information that the incident occurred on September 20.




It became known that BMD without crews had to use a parachute system to land at the training ground when landing from an Il-76 military transport aircraft. However, parachute systems, for an unnamed (at the moment) reason, failed, and the landing vehicles carried out virtually free fall.

From the press service:

As a result of a malfunction of parachute systems in a collision with the ground, both cars were damaged.


Photos from the scene indicate that the term “damage”, to put it mildly, is not entirely suitable for what happened. Two armored vehicles that participated in the landing, actually turned into piles of metal. One of them lies with the rollers up, and little remains of the other as a result of a strong blow to the surface.



Just a few days ago, VO reported that it was for the first time planned to use the new PBS-2019-U strapdown parachute systems for BMD-950M landing on the Center-4 exercises. However, it was noted that they will be used to drop military equipment with the crew. PBS-950-U was created by the Tekhnodinamika holding company, which is part of Rostec. It was noted that such parachute systems are already beginning to enter the troops.

In the case described above, as the Ministry of Defense emphasizes, there were no crews inside the combat vehicles. It does not say what kind of parachute system was used in case of unsuccessful landing BMD.



The reasons for the failure of the parachute systems in the case of two armored vehicles and the loss of these armored vehicles finds out a special commission. The human factor is not excluded.
Photos used:
https://vk.com/aircrash
340 comments
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  1. Evil 55
    Evil 55 23 September 2019 06: 07
    +62
    Judging by the remnants, the BMD-2 was dropped. Well, at least without a crew ..
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 06: 14
      -121
      Think without a crew? A little lie creates a lot of mistrust .. what
      Photos from the scene indicate that the term “damage”, to put it mildly, is not entirely suitable for what happened.
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 23 September 2019 06: 25
        +46
        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        Little lie

        In the morning early, eyes are not promdrami, go throw !!! fellow wassat
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. vadson
            vadson 23 September 2019 06: 41
            +25
            Do you have evidence to the contrary? or highly like?
            1. DEDPIHTO
              DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 06: 47
              -45
              Quote: vadson
              Do you have evidence to the contrary? or highly like?

              I don’t have any facts, there is only distrust in lying to the MO .. the BMD who crashed into the trash were called, they were injured, Do you have any facts ...?
              1. vadson
                vadson 23 September 2019 06: 56
                +22
                you can’t mistrust the matter, and it’s problematic to hide the death of several people in our century. moreover, unfortunately, such facts of death can be published by me
                1. DEDPIHTO
                  DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 07: 05
                  -34
                  Quote: vadson
                  you can’t mistrust the matter, and it’s problematic to hide the death of several people in our century. moreover, unfortunately, such facts of death can be published by me

                  Yeah, they published how the kid escaped from the unit with weapons and managed to shoot himself in the forest twice as much .. winked So you didn’t answer, do you have facts, or is the MO the lamp of truth?
                  1. bulvas
                    bulvas 23 September 2019 07: 11
                    +61
                    Thank God, without people.

                    And we were not fucking laughing at the Americans, when they had 2 years ago during exercises in Germany, this happened.

                    Only those who do nothing are insured against failure

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                    2. Leeds
                      Leeds 23 September 2019 08: 27
                      +6
                      Quote: bulvas
                      Thank God, without people.

                      And we were not fucking laughing at the Americans, when they had 2 years ago during exercises in Germany, this happened.

                      Only those who do nothing are insured against failure


                      And neighing here is notably out of stupidity, but everything is back.
                      1. ultra
                        ultra 23 September 2019 10: 09
                        +10
                        Quote: Leeds
                        And neighing here is notably out of stupidity, but everything is back.

                        "Whinnying", first of all, were the Americans themselves, who were filming the landing. And then the parachutes did not open, and there the armored vehicles themselves flew off the platforms, because they were not fixed on them. Feel the difference.
                      2. bulvas
                        bulvas 23 September 2019 11: 39
                        +2
                        Quote: ultra
                        Quote: Leeds
                        And neighing here is notably out of stupidity, but everything is back.

                        "Whinnying", first of all, were the Americans themselves, who were filming the landing. And then the parachutes did not open, and there the armored vehicles themselves flew off the platforms, because they were not fixed on them. Feel the difference.


                        Technology has many nuances, a similar result - when material losses, and when - human
                    3. krillon
                      krillon 23 September 2019 19: 52
                      +4
                      I remember nobly quaking over the imperialists when the Hammers also landed ....
                    4. Shurik70
                      Shurik70 23 September 2019 22: 23
                      +1
                      One soft-boiled car, the second generally to smithereens!
                      Fucking photo. I did not expect that an armored combat vehicle could be so smashed. All the same, the fall for the car, albeit deadly, is ALREADY !!!
                      Not expected.
                      belay
                  2. vadson
                    vadson 23 September 2019 07: 23
                    +13
                    how would you tell me? there is such a thing as the presumption of innocence, so you blurted out an unproven and unconfirmed opinion, and prove that you are right. otherwise you behave like a youngster in the entrance: they lied to a person (in this case, mo) and let him prove that he is not a camel. not serious
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. vadson
                        vadson 23 September 2019 07: 59
                        +9
                        Think without a crew? A small lie gives rise to great distrust. - that is, you blame my lie that the landing craft was without crews.
                        ps you can knock yourself
                    2. Okolotochny
                      Okolotochny 23 September 2019 12: 55
                      +7
                      Do not pay attention. Such here "at work" - blurt out without thinking, then they scribble complaints at you.
                  3. Bad thing
                    Bad thing 23 September 2019 14: 32
                    +4
                    Alex, I received information the day before yesterday, from one of my former subordinates, a direct participant in the events, the landing was without crews but the wind would have been weaker, it could have been worse.
                    1. DEDPIHTO
                      DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 15: 05
                      -8
                      Quote: Bad
                      Alex, I received information the day before yesterday, from one of my former subordinates, a direct participant in the events, the landing was without crews but the wind would have been weaker, it could have been worse.

                      hi Thanks for the info, Vladimir, that means everything is in order with the landing force And then here some can only laugh at others, troll and shit to throw themselves into a “patriotic” stupor, without any facts - what to believe in that? Yes, and the MOs are also good, yet ,, closed ,, the sky of Syria has not been forgotten .. No.
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 23 September 2019 15: 17
                        +3
                        Quote: DEPHIHTO
                        here some they can only ... troll and throw poop ... having no facts

                        I probably even know who it is:

                        Quote: DEPHIHTO
                        Think without a crew? A little lie gives rise to a lot of mistrust .. I don’t have any facts, there is only distrust of a lie to the Moscow Region ..

                        Sounds like it? wink

                        Quote: DEPHIHTO
                        why believe so?

                        You are right - nothing so believe yes

                        PS: that's because people ... everything is God's dew ... laughing
                2. Lbt21
                  Lbt21 23 September 2019 10: 51
                  -3
                  And why then classified this data in peacetime?
                  1. Den717
                    Den717 23 September 2019 12: 13
                    +4
                    Quote: Lbt21
                    And why then classified this data in peacetime?

                    Photos half the Internet, what secrets are there?
              2. Constructor68
                Constructor68 23 September 2019 07: 19
                +16
                DEDPIHTO
                Today, 06: 47

                Quote: vadson
                Do you have evidence to the contrary? or highly like?


                I have no facts

                There are no facts, but this is a burning desire to throw on the fan: "Achtung, deceive us." Usually the worst rumors are spread
                Verily I say unto you, on May 4, 1925, the earth will fly upon the celestial axis!
                Dog's heart. Bulgakov
              3. sabakina
                sabakina 23 September 2019 07: 20
                +21
                Quote: DEPHIHTO
                I don’t have any facts, there is only distrust in lying to the MO .. they called the crashed into the trash BMD, got damaged,
                DEDPIKHTO, do not tell me why in the protocols they write "injuries incompatible with life", and not just "tore off: head-1 piece, arms-2 pieces, leg-1 piece"? wink
                1. alexxxxz
                  alexxxxz 3 October 2019 15: 08
                  0
                  This, of course, is casuistry, but the reason is that the subject first receives damage, then remains alive for a certain amount of time, and only then dies from these injuries. Some time may be a few seconds.
              4. Aristarkh Lyudvigovich
                Aristarkh Lyudvigovich 23 September 2019 08: 01
                +15
                In the entire history of the Airborne Forces, no more than 60 people have passed the jump inside military equipment. In June of the 2003 of the year, seven officers performed such a landing, and in the winter of the 2010 of the year, six paratroopers made a landing on three BMD-2. Equipment and crew are landing separately. The driver has a device, something like a radar, which indicates which side his car is on. After being found, he puts her on alert and sets off. The whole process of mooring takes about half an hour (more or less, depending on the number of people and experience in this matter).
              5. To be or not to be
                To be or not to be 23 September 2019 08: 36
                +12
                DEDPIHTO (ALEX) Today, 06:47 AM There was a message yesterday about two and videos (https://e-news.pro/news/298344-dve-boevye-mashiny-upali-pri-desantirovanii-na-ucheniyah-pod-orenburgom .html)
                In war as in war. and in teaching this cannot be ruled out. they learn. They will figure it out. Errors will be corrected and onward ... Landing - the assault brigade of the new structure is not a street to cross along a pedestrian zebra. Where they also sometimes run into
                1. ccsr
                  ccsr 23 September 2019 13: 54
                  -19
                  Quote: To be or not to be
                  In war as in war. and in teaching this cannot be ruled out. they learn.

                  Sorry, but with this approach we will kill more equipment and people than we would even need during such a landing in wartime.
                  Maybe it's time for the Ministry of Defense to think about why the hell is expensive military equipment being thrown with a parachute, and not using full-size mock-ups for this, on which it will be possible to train all parts of the Airborne Forces to drop equipment. I am always amazed at the stupidity of some generals, who do not take into account the people's money at all, and then cry that they say the equipment is old, they do not give new money for the purchase. All pilots learn on simulators before they sit at the controls of the aircraft - this is considered normal, but to ditch two combat vehicles during the exercises of one regiment is, of course, "the highest class". All this is sad, only one thing pleases that there were no casualties.
                  I believe that categorically it is necessary to prohibit the use of combat vehicles for educational purposes, and even more so to drop troops with crews - for this, it is necessary to give zealous commanders immediately to the tribunal.
                  1. Marconi41
                    Marconi41 23 September 2019 14: 09
                    +18
                    Quote: ccsr
                    why the hell are expensive military equipment thrown with a parachute, but they don’t use full-size models for this, on which it will be possible

                    And then on this model we’ll go to do a teaching task? Or a crew on foot, and a machine gun on top? Teaching - This is the development of tasks close to combat conditions, and not window dressing.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 23 September 2019 19: 42
                      -12
                      Quote: Marconi41
                      And then on this model we’ll go to do a teaching task?

                      No, you have little idea how all this is organized, because they will go by those cars that will be brought in advance to the place of release. And the mockups after landing will be loaded onto trailers and taken out to practice the training tasks of another regiment.
                      Quote: Marconi41
                      Teaching - This is the development of tasks close to combat conditions, and not window dressing.

                      So let’s then from the ground we’ll also fire at the landing troops - then there will definitely be no window dressing. Why did our Strategic Rocket Forces shoot rockets without a nuclear charge - did not you think?
                      1. Marconi41
                        Marconi41 24 September 2019 11: 21
                        +7
                        Quote: ccsr
                        they will go by those cars that will be brought in advance to the place of release.

                        Then you will never know how the car will behave after landing. They broke a couple of cars, someone will answer, but at the same time they will eliminate the shortcomings. It is right!
                  2. To be or not to be
                    To be or not to be 23 September 2019 15: 11
                    +7
                    ccsr (ccsr) Today, 13:54
                    ".. we will kill more technology and people .."
                    Who are "we ???
                    Sorry. But the question arose: "You were also dropped ... without a parachute during the exercise" .. joke ..
                    1. There is no need for any tribunal and no need to intimidate the military .. Moreover, punish without understanding and God forbid to force to pay for the damage
                    2. They study in exercises with the military equipment and weapons that they have according to their purpose. Teaching is the highest form of operational and tactical training. And not the course of a young soldier. Where on mock-ups and training copies
                    3 Regarding your assessment and surprise commanders. To a military school and forward to generals ..
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 23 September 2019 19: 49
                      -13
                      Quote: To be or not to be
                      Who are "we ???

                      Armed forces. And who did you mean?
                      Quote: To be or not to be
                      Sorry. But the question arose: "You were also dropped ... without a parachute during the exercise" .. joke ..

                      Stupid.
                      But you apparently do not know about the accidents that occurred when practicing jumping even from the parachute tower - in the GSVG there were such cases.
                      Quote: To be or not to be
                      2. Learn from the exercises with the military equipment and weapons. Which they have for their intended purpose.

                      Recommend this to the troops of the Strategic Missile Forces, so that they launch standard nuclear weapons during our training grounds.
                      Quote: To be or not to be
                      3 Regarding your assessment and surprise commanders. To a military school and forward to generals ..

                      It's too late for me, but I have seen many military leaders personally, so it's not up to you to judge where I need to study after 26 calendar ones. It’s like you sometimes need to clean your brains, otherwise we had the great paratrooper Grachev, an utter disgrace for our armed forces. You are not his fan. accidentally?
                      1. To be or not to be
                        To be or not to be 23 September 2019 20: 13
                        +8
                        Well. in 26 years you could learn the forms of tactical training of troops and do not have to go into operational art .. moreover, into strategy
                      2. ccsr
                        ccsr 23 September 2019 21: 06
                        -13
                        Quote: To be or not to be
                        Well. in 26 years you could learn the forms of tactical training of troops and do not have to go into operational art .. moreover, into strategy

                        And then you yourself used operational art, and I don’t even ask about strategy. But I would also like to know this in order to understand what you are like, otherwise it’s not an hour that you haven’t seen anything in your life above the army headquarters.
                  3. Grits
                    Grits 23 September 2019 15: 21
                    +5
                    Quote: ccsr
                    I believe that categorically it is necessary to prohibit the use of military vehicles for educational purposes,

                    And also to give out sticks instead of weapons to soldiers during exercises.
                    1. ccsr
                      ccsr 23 September 2019 19: 51
                      -12
                      Quote: Gritsa
                      And also to give out sticks instead of weapons to soldiers during exercises.

                      Especially for the illiterate in military affairs - decommissioned equipment either goes for recycling or is used for training purposes. Who's stopping the decommissioned BMD corps from landing instead of military ones - can you reasonably explain why this cannot be done?
                      1. NN52
                        NN52 23 September 2019 20: 14
                        +8
                        ccsr (ccsr)
                        Did you even serve? or pretend to be about layouts and decommissioned equipment ????
                      2. ccsr
                        ccsr 23 September 2019 21: 10
                        -12
                        Quote: NN52
                        ccsr (ccsr)
                        Did you even serve?

                        Served.
                        or pretend to be about layouts and decommissioned equipment ????

                        To work out the destruction of the armored vehicles and the launchers of the enemy, the special forces used mock-ups - is this unfortunate military enough to start with?
                        The written-off technique has always been used in the educational process - you are simply not in the subject.
                      3. NN52
                        NN52 23 September 2019 21: 18
                        +8
                        Not enough, pseudo-military ...
                        You, as a landing, instead of paratroopers, also offer to throw mock-ups?
                        You, infantry, do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs ... What I doubt at all that you served.
                      4. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 11: 04
                        -14
                        Quote: NN52
                        Not enough, pseudo-military ...

                        It’s probably not enough for different silk-screeners, but those who understand the essence of the problem will agree with me.
                        Quote: NN52
                        You, as a landing, instead of paratroopers, also offer to throw mock-ups?

                        This crap is only too "smart" can offer - so do not distort my words in such a cheap way.
                        Quote: NN52
                        You, infantry, do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs ...

                        Firstly, I had nothing to do with the infantry, and secondly, I had to deal with those who parachute too much, so moderate your ardor, eggs are in your head, most likely. Speaking of "infantry" - there is an airborne company (RDR) in the orb. Do you think that they risk less than you when they are thrown behind enemy lines? Or in the army companies the special forces are worse prepared than in the Airborne Forces - do not laugh, "theorist".
                        Quote: NN52
                        What I doubt at all is that you served.

                        Doubt, verbiage - no one forbids this to you ....
                      5. NN52
                        NN52 24 September 2019 12: 59
                        +7
                        ccsr
                        You have invented this problem in your head, not more than that ... Such a "ratsuha" for the military, it still needs to be thought of ...
                        And he never had anything to do with the airborne forces, except that he parachuted twice a year, according to the documents.
                        And you have come to terms here. Well, at least have fun.
                      6. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 13: 13
                        -13
                        Quote: NN52
                        You have invented this problem in your head, not more than that ... Such a "ratsuha" for the military, it still needs to be thought of ...

                        This is not a ratsuha - this is common sense. Even in aviation, training bombing was carried out with training bombs to train young pilots, and sailors even catch training torpedoes - so study military affairs in the way that Comrade Lenin taught.
                        Quote: NN52
                        And he never had anything to do with the airborne forces, except that he parachuted twice a year, according to the documents.

                        If desired, Nachfin can also jump twice a year, but there should be four jumps, as far as my memory serves me, in order to receive a preferential length of service. You are probably one of those ...
                        Quote: NN52
                        Well, at least have fun.

                        I am glad that I cheered you up - in vain about people like you say "Show your finger - it will laugh."
                      7. NN52
                        NN52 24 September 2019 15: 16
                        +7
                        ccsr
                        You still can't calm down .... What chief of finance? What are the four jumps? And what does the preferential length of service have to do with it? What are you talking about? You are definitely from the "virtual" military ....

                        Two jumps a year, one in winter, one in summer. Without performing 2 jumps per year, they are not allowed to fly.
                        And do not forget to write an appeal to the MO about your know-how.
                        Everything is not interesting to communicate with you.
                      8. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 18: 22
                        -13
                        Quote: NN52
                        You still can't calm down .... What chief of finance? What are the four jumps? And what does the preferential length of service have to do with it? What are you talking about? You are definitely from the "virtual" military ....

                        Everything is clear - now I immediately realized that you are clearly not in the subject. Consult with those who received hopping and benefits from support units - maybe then you will not ask silly questions.
                        Quote: NN52
                        Two jumps a year, one in winter, one in summer. Without performing 2 jumps per year, they are not allowed to fly.

                        So you have nothing to do with the Airborne Forces or the Special Forces, but you have already climbed to discuss who and for what benefits in these structures.
                        Quote: NN52
                        Everything is not interesting to communicate with you.

                        And your primitivism is not a joy to me - continue to steam your stories about two jumps of flight personnel, but remember that for other categories of military personnel there are other standards.
                      9. NN52
                        NN52 24 September 2019 20: 15
                        +7
                        ccsr (ccsr)
                        So .. okay .. let's go the other way ...
                        How many parachute jumps do you personally have?
                      10. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 20: 23
                        -12
                        Quote: NN52
                        How many parachute jumps do you personally have?

                        Not one - it was not my responsibility according to the VUS.
                        Quote: NN52
                        So .. okay .. let's go the other way ...

                        I advised you to turn to those who served in the Airborne Forces, Special Operations Brigade or Special Forces, and they will popularly explain to you what hopping standards exist there.
                      11. NN52
                        NN52 24 September 2019 20: 36
                        +7
                        ccsr (ccsr)
                        I see ... the question and discussion on this topic is closed with you ... Pointless conversation.
                        Good luck.
                      12. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 September 2019 11: 14
                        -11
                        Quote: NN52
                        I see ... the question and discussion on this topic is closed with you ... Pointless conversation.

                        Of course it is closed due to your lack of knowledge on this topic. And remember that for you two parachute jumps are just a way to save your life when you lose an airplane, and for other categories of military personnel, landing is just the beginning of a combat mission. That is why they have different jumping standards, and they are specifically encouraged by jumping money and benefits on the service that you already have. It’s immediately obvious that you obviously didn’t serve in the Soviet Army, or you were related to it somewhere, that’s why you don’t know any basic questions. And therefore it is useless to discuss the issue of the death of equipment during studies with you - the cat wept for basic knowledge, that’s nonsense.
                      13. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 25 September 2019 11: 46
                        +7
                        Quote: ccsr
                        the basic knowledge you have a cat cried, that’s nonsense

                        Man, I don't know what your "basic knowledge" is, but the second part of your phrase sits on you like a tailored suit yes

                        By the way, practice shows that daring to strangers ... is not good. Did not notice? wink
                      14. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 September 2019 12: 05
                        -8
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        rifle, I don't know what "basic knowledge" you have,

                        Normal knowledge, Soviet sourdough.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        By the way, practice shows that daring to strangers ... is not good. Did not notice?

                        Are you trying to intimidate? In vain, especially since some "strangers" are ordinary amateurs in military matters. By the way, do you at least know the minimum number of jumps that officers and warrant officers had to complete in order for them to receive length of service benefits?
                      15. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 25 September 2019 12: 20
                        +2
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Normal knowledge, Soviet sourdough

                        About "landing tank corps" - is that from there?

                        Quiet slate rustling ...

                        Quote: ccsr
                        Are you trying to intimidate?

                        In no way. Just stating that rudeness is usually ... not welcome wink

                        Quote: ccsr
                        some "strangers" common amateurs in military matters

                        I'm even afraid to suggest that you are for a "military" like that. And you know everything, and you have been everywhere laughing

                        Quote: ccsr
                        you yourself at least know the minimum number of jumps

                        I don’t know, and I don’t want to know. Tanks are not supposed to jump yes
                      16. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 September 2019 12: 41
                        -6
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        About "landing tank corps" - is that from there?

                        I do not know, as well as why you ask me about it. Did I tell you about this? The question was about decommissioned BMD corps, and not about tank corps that can be used to test parachute systems during exercises - this will not lead to the death of military equipment, but the effect is the same.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        In no way. Just stating that rudeness is usually ... not welcome

                        Uneducated trepachki are also not welcome, especially when they begin to teach professionals. Hence the reaction.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        I'm even afraid to suggest that you are for a "military" like that. And you know everything, and you have been everywhere

                        A normal military man simply has a broader outlook than some of the "specialists" who write here on military topics. And I really visited many different places - I even was present at the rise of the tank cover regiment in the GSVG, which quietly overlapped the summer standard for exactly five minutes.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        I don’t know, and I don’t want to know. Tanks are not supposed to jump

                        Why then do you undertake to discuss and draw conclusions who is right and who is not, in such a question? I know this "kitchen", but the "pilot" who decided to teach me was clearly not in the subject, which is immediately clear to those who came across this.
                      17. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 25 September 2019 14: 04
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I really visited many different places - I was even present at the ascent of the covering tank regiment in the GSVG

                        From the "checking", then? Well then, it is clear...

                        So where did you get the "airborne corps"? Invented it yourself?
                      18. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 September 2019 20: 55
                        -5
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        From the "checking", then? Well then, it is clear...

                        Actually, I carried six combat duties per month, in addition to performing my main duties, so I missed the cash register. Although I had to go on business trips, including with checks.
                        By the way, the tank cover regiment was stationed in the same town with our unit, but I could not verify it - it was not our diocese.
                        So figs that you understand - I just witnessed all this and everything became clear at a glance.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        So where did you get the "airborne corps"? Invented it yourself?

                        Do you have any idea that the entire BMD landing process takes several tens of seconds, and it is unfortunate that during this time there is the greatest chance of losing equipment. So why drop military vehicles if the entire process of laying parachutes and throwing them out can be done using decommissioned equipment - there will be no difference for pilots or paratroopers. You do the mocking tasks during firing, not military equipment, and this is considered normal. Why should paratroopers risk their cars if, when it was adopted for service, these tests were already carried out by the state commission?
                      19. Xscorpion
                        Xscorpion 26 September 2019 04: 08
                        +2
                        Firstly, tests are carried out on new machines, and not used. Secondly, the landing of machines is only the beginning of exercises, training and standards. In fact, it begins before the plane takes off, laying the parachute system. After landing, the crew and the landing team come to the machine, assesses its readiness for the march, and if necessary eliminates small Malfunctions, for example, puts a goose in its place, sets the car ready for a march, takes places and makes a march to a designated area and performs a combat mission. This is all part of the training. And even if, as in this case, the equipment has become unusable, this does not paratroopers from performing a combat mission. They report what happened, the crew usually stays with the car, and the landing, led by the squad leader on foot, makes a march to the gathering place. At the same time, the personnel train during emergency situations. And the commanders then evaluate them actions. And the commission will already determine who is guilty. This is only in the opinion of a person who is not related to the army and especially to the Airborne Forces it seems that everything is simple and only the strength of equipment is determined. In fact, even when landing one machine, dozens of standards of many people are worked out. It's all simple for you, let's throw mock-ups and mannequins, not a war. Third, don’t worry for equipment, thousands of cars are in storage, and the fact that they killed a couple of years, nobody gets poorer, they are written off ten times more monthly for various reasons. A negative result is an experience that is much more than with a positive result. Your army’s logic shouldn’t do anything, not war. Let the soldiers just run around the training ground and shout bang-bang, why spend ammo, they cost money, why pilots fly, he learned how to fly to school, then the plane will crash, why a submarine to go under water, it’s dangerous, it’ll suddenly drown, it’s not a war. Think a little of your head, and if you don’t succeed, don’t meddle in army affairs, this is not yours, you are far from that.
                      20. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 11: 03
                        -2
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        Firstly, tests are carried out on new machines, and not used.

                        Firstly, military representatives carry out tests selectively from the series, and therefore it makes absolutely no sense to subject all the vehicles that entered the troops to the landing test. The products that passed the entire test cycle could not be delivered to the troops in the first category - this was the case in Soviet times, if anyone does not know.
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        Secondly, landing machines is only the beginning of exercises, trainings and standards

                        I don’t care about all this - many exercises begin even without the complete withdrawal of troops to their places of study, so I don’t need to tell me the basics of military affairs.
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        After landing, the crew and the landing team approach the vehicle, assesses its readiness for the march, if necessary eliminates minor malfunctions, for example, puts the goose in its place, sets the vehicle in readiness for the march, takes places and makes the march to the designated area and performs a combat mission. in the framework of training.

                        Well, let them carry out this task after separate landing on military equipment, which they will take out in advance and scatter around the field - what will change for the conscript or contractor in such preparation?
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        .They report on what happened, the crew usually stays with the car, and the landing, led by the squad commander, marching on foot to the gathering place. At the same time, the personnel are training during emergency situations.

                        So let this element be worked out from a standing working equipment - what is the problem?
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        Thirdly, don’t worry about the equipment, there are thousands of cars in storage, and the fact that once every few years they killed a couple, no one will be impoverished, they are written off ten times more monthly for various reasons.

                        And I was always worried about her, because I knew what it cost my people, and therefore I consider scoundrels those who do not want to reckon with this. I was taught to protect the people's penny, and I still remember this. By the way, if you do not know, they write off the equipment only after its resource and all repairs are completely exhausted, and not at the request of someone. And it’s not so easy to write it off, who knows this.
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        .And then, following your logic, the army should not do anything, not war. Let the soldiers just run around the training ground and shout bang-bang, why spend ammo, they cost money, why pilots fly, he learned to school, then the plane will crash , why should a submarine go under water, it is dangerous, it will suddenly drown, not a war.

                        No need for cheap demagogy because it was only about one element of the exercise - landing BMD without a crew, and I only discussed this issue. All the rest of your rants do not interest me much.
                        Quote: Xscorpion
                        Think a little bit of your head, and if it doesn’t work, then do not meddle in army affairs, this is not yours, you are far from this.

                        Judging by your idle talk, the army was very ready to bother you if you lost your sense of reality and don’t understand what was discussed in my texts.
                      21. NN52
                        NN52 25 September 2019 18: 23
                        +2
                        ccsr
                        Oh how! I see you took me "by the eyes" to discuss with other members of the forum? Oh, how ugly grandfather ..
                        Well then, tell us the "great" secret, who did you serve 26 calendars? And in what specialty did you graduate from college?
                        Well, the horizons of a professional like you, something narrowish .....
                      22. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 September 2019 21: 13
                        -4
                        Quote: NN52
                        Oh how! I see you took me "by the eyes" to discuss with other members of the forum? Oh, how ugly grandfather ..

                        Do not lie - I posted the text in the same topic, and there is no desire to discuss you, especially since there is nothing to discuss.
                        Quote: NN52
                        Well then, tell us the "great" secret, who did you serve 26 calendars?

                        Why do you need this, especially considering that I'm not particularly interested in you? I already know those who communicate with me in other forums, and I did not hide my identity. So if the awl does not allow you to sit quietly, look and find what interests you.
                        Quote: NN52
                        And what specialty did they graduate from?

                        Smart people will ask in which position he finished the service - this is what distinguishes my horizons from yours.
                      23. NN52
                        NN52 25 September 2019 21: 48
                        +1
                        ccsr (ccsr)
                        In this spirit, as you answered, ordinary balobols respond ... find what I do not know ...
                        And smart people, at first they are interested in what they graduated from and in what specialty (well, or VUS) ..
                        And not in what position did the next balabol and careerist end his service ...

                        And I'm not used to lying .. You are discussing me with others, what's wrong? And no matter what topic.
                      24. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 10: 29
                        -3
                        Quote: NN52
                        And not in what position did the next balabol and careerist end his service ...

                        Enlighten that the great naval commanders spoke about this long before you.
                        "The breadth of the horizon is determined by the height of the beholder's eye."
                        Admiral S.O. MAKAROV.
                      25. A good one
                        A good one 25 September 2019 22: 36
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I already know those who communicate with me in other forums, and I did not hide my identity.

                        Gulchitai, open your identity! wink
                      26. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 07: 10
                        +6
                        Where in the GSVG and in what years? If it `s not a secret.
                      27. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 10: 33
                        -3
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Where in the GSVG and in what years? If it `s not a secret.

                        1988-1992, the headquarters of the GSVG.
                      28. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 10: 41
                        +5
                        Wünsdorf? Been there when "West 84" was carried out.
                      29. A good one
                        A good one 25 September 2019 22: 43
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Not one - it was not my responsibility according to the VUS.

                        Signalman? Quartermaster?
                      30. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 10: 37
                        -2
                        Quote: Not bad
                        Signalman? Quartermaster?

                        Neither one nor the other - I had a different VUS. Although I received the first officer rank "lieutenant-engineer" after graduating from the communications school, you probably do not know that such ranks existed, as did most of those who write here.
                      31. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 13: 24
                        -1
                        You were simply asked, and you are arranging cow dances on ice here, that’s the question, are you an officer or where. I am a signalman and I know a lot of things in terms of education and service. wink
                      32. alexxxxz
                        alexxxxz 3 October 2019 15: 19
                        +1
                        I personally didn’t serve. But such a game, which the respected comrade ccsr writes, does not even enter my head. I imagined how a tank company pushes 10 mass-dimensional mock-ups of tanks in its directories together firing at targets. Boo ha ha! Well, what! Nehren expensive technique to break! Solar dear burn! And in order to save ammo too - let them shoot tracing stones from slingshots!
                      33. NN52
                        NN52 24 September 2019 12: 52
                        +7
                        ccsr
                        Everything in your head is messed up ...
                        The practice of destroying military equipment is one thing (everything is used at the training grounds, including decommissioned aircraft), but when landing ... Who will take the responsibility of loading decommissioned equipment on board the aircraft? Maybe even without tracks and wheels? Or, without a gun and an engine, you can also reset? What about the military?
                        Well you made fun ....
                      34. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 13: 04
                        -10
                        Quote: NN52
                        The practice of destroying military equipment is one thing (everything is used at the training grounds, including decommissioned aircraft), but when landing ...

                        Nonsense is complete, because even for training in RPG shooting, training grenades are used.
                        Quote: NN52
                        Who will take the responsibility of loading decommissioned equipment on board the aircraft?

                        And how is the decommissioned BMD different from the one that has a 1-4 category?
                        Quote: NN52
                        Maybe even without tracks and wheels? Or, without a gun and an engine, you can also reset? What about the military?

                        Do not tell, verbiage - I did not offer this. Although there will not be a big problem if something is partially replaced in such a BMD.
                        Quote: NN52
                        Well you made fun ....

                        Typically, sanity just makes fun of various amateurs, for whom the convolutions are not enough to understand how much military equipment costs. That's why for them two ditched cars are empty words, and any armed man immediately realizes that some people should kick their ass for such a headache.
                      35. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 23 September 2019 21: 18
                        +9
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Who's stopping the decommissioned BMD corps from landing instead of military ones - can you reasonably explain why this cannot be done?

                        Can. What for?

                        According to the scenario, this BMD should continue to fight, and the body of the decommissioned BMD should fight ... not suitable request

                        And so - you can write "BMD" on the concrete block, and drop it ... but again, why? wink
                      36. ccsr
                        ccsr 23 September 2019 21: 23
                        -12
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Can. What for?

                        In order not to ruin military equipment, which is far from a penny. We lost two BMDs, and when will the shortage be made up, if the entire issue is scheduled for five years ahead?
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        According to the scenario, this BMD should continue to fight,

                        So, in your scenario, we should periodically test the Kura test site in Kamchatka with nuclear charges?
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        and written off to fight ... not suitable

                        And no one forces you to fight on it - it is suitable for practicing EDUCATIONAL tasks.
                      37. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 23 September 2019 21: 31
                        +7
                        Quote: ccsr
                        no one forces you to fight on it - it will work for TRAINING

                        The training task in this case was: to land, and on the move - to battle. Training. That’s the task, understand? wink

                        Tell me how to do this with "decommissioned BMD bodies". Pesce by machine - do not offer yes
                      38. NN52
                        NN52 23 September 2019 21: 52
                        +6
                        Novel
                        Comrade Katz offers to dig in and give up right away ... after landing ...
                        Therefore, he has layouts))) laughing
                      39. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 11: 59
                        -9
                        Quote: NN52
                        Comrade Katz offers to dig in and give up right away ... after landing ...

                        Even Grachev did not believe in your landing when he became Minister of Defense, because he understood that you would not play any role against a serious enemy. And all your "coolness" immediately disappears as soon as you are asked the simplest question - how are you going to overcome the enemy's air defense zone for landing on foreign territory. About such trifles as preparing an airborne division for a landing, which will be instantly revealed by NATO. I'm not even saying - it's not for your mind. So talk about that aspect from the perspective of the military professional you fancy yourself to be.
                      40. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 10: 53
                        -10
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        The training task in this case was: to land, and on the move - to battle. Training. That’s the task, understand?

                        So, let’s handle them at the landing with air defense systems in full - so that it would be like in a real war. Do you insist on this?
                        Do you even understand that study is intended for training, and not in order to ruin people and equipment.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Tell me how to do this with "decommissioned BMD bodies". Pesce by machine - do not offer

                        Silently - decommissioned BMD paratroopers first of all, and not the paratroopers themselves, to work out tasks. And for the personnel in the landing area, they put serviceable equipment, they will find her figs right away due to the spread of the airborne ones - this will be good training in finding the dropped cargo and weapons. And in general for different "experts" - searching for BMD is not a load of special forces to find for you, so you will puff out your cheeks in another place.
                      41. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 24 September 2019 11: 10
                        +10
                        Well, what can I say? My friend, you, hike, have a hysteria ... with your ideas on the topic of "landing corps" and

                        Quote: ccsr
                        ... for the personnel in the landing area they put in working equipment ...

                        - You have come up with this cool. It remains to implement, dare.

                        Quote: ccsr
                        cheeks in another place will inflate

                        Cheeks, buddy, you pout.

                        Go on, you will certainly be appreciated yes
                      42. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 11: 42
                        -10
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Well, what can I say? My friend, you, hike, have a hysteria ... with your ideas on the topic of "landing corps" and

                        No hysteria - just common sense and years of service make you look at the whims of some pseudo-military men from the point of view of their dizziness from their own "coolness".
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        - You have come up with this cool. It remains to implement, dare.

                        Let those who now steers it embody it - by the way, this is not so difficult for those who have brains.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Go on, you will certainly be appreciated

                        The "appraiser" of you will turn out to be weak, so do not dream.
                      43. Paranoid50
                        Paranoid50 24 September 2019 00: 36
                        +5
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        And so - you can write "BMD" on the concrete block, and drop it ... t

                        Damn it, the fantasy broke up: he presented the tankers at a similar bottom in a similar way ... fellow Well, it’s logical: what if they drown him, and he won’t get it - why ruin the equipment? request laughing
                      44. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 11: 08
                        -10
                        Quote: Paranoid50
                        Well, it’s logical: what if they drown him, and he won’t get it - why ruin the equipment?

                        It is not logical - the recessed tank will be pulled out, and the BMD will be decommissioned after an official investigation, and they will never be restored.
                      45. Grits
                        Grits 24 September 2019 12: 21
                        +6
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Who's stopping the decommissioned BMD corps from landing instead of military ones - can you reasonably explain why this cannot be done?

                        Because it is not the drop of a piece of iron that is being worked out, but the whole cycle — preparing the parachute system, loading, dumping, and then also completing the task on the dumped equipment.
                      46. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 12: 32
                        -8
                        Quote: Gritsa
                        Because it is not the drop of a piece of iron that is being worked out, but the whole cycle — preparing the parachute system, loading, dumping, and then also completing the task on the dumped equipment.

                        Well, work out all the elements of the cycle on the decommissioned BMD, load it on the plane and drop it - who's stopping you from doing this? But you will do the combat mission in a combat situation, and not in exercises - there training exercises are being worked out. And for this, you can pre-adjust full-time BMD to the landing site, on which TRAINING tasks will be worked out. What is so complicated or disruptive to the whole educational process?
                      47. Grits
                        Grits 24 September 2019 13: 00
                        +6
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Well, work out all the elements of the cycle on the decommissioned BMD, load it on the plane and drop it - who's stopping you from doing this?

                        Nobody interferes. Is that a crowd of people pushing BMDehu into the transport vehicle. As well as brigades of workers, dragging the same BMD across the field on a cable, simulating an attack. Yes, even those who in advance at the landing site "behind enemy lines" arrange "landed" equipment.
                      48. NN52
                        NN52 24 September 2019 13: 12
                        +7
                        Grits
                        good Well, let the person show imagination and creativity in military affairs.
                      49. ccsr
                        ccsr 24 September 2019 13: 26
                        -11
                        Quote: Gritsa
                        Yes, no one bothers. Is that a crowd of people pushing BMDehu into the transporter.

                        Why people, if in IL-76 loading of goods and equipment is carried out through the cargo hatch with the help of onboard winches and electric hoists.
                        Quote: Gritsa
                        As well as brigades of workers dragging the same BMD across the field on a cable, simulating an attack.

                        Nobody is going to carry them for training purposes - an ordinary tank tractor will collect them after the exercises and using platforms they will transport them to a storage place.
                        Quote: Gritsa
                        Yes, even those who in advance at the landing site "behind enemy lines" arrange "landed" equipment.

                        Do not fool people - in my time there were separate automobile companies of heavy vehicles that transported tanks along the roads of Germany to various events where there was no railway. In general, I look at your "rich" military experience, if you can not imagine elementaryism in matters of training troops.
                      50. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 25 September 2019 16: 20
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        I see you have "rich" military experience

                        Are you by any chance not a prosecutor? Purely sporting interest because your comments are riddled with an idea no matter what happens. So it happens
                      51. ccsr
                        ccsr 25 September 2019 21: 04
                        -6
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Are you by any chance not a prosecutor?

                        By no chance. But he was a member of the commission of the unit for testing knowledge of TB and the admission of personnel to independent work. That is why it was necessary to study all MO orders about incidents in the troops in order to draw conclusions.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Purely sporting interest, because your comments are riddled with the idea, as if nothing had happened. So it happens

                        And I had a good commander who directly told us at the meeting that if someone dies a soldier, he himself will go to accompany the coffin and tell his relatives about his responsibility for his death. This works very well for all officers, which is why in eight years we have not had a single death in the battalion. And I am glad of this, especially considering the fact that there were three corpses in the neighboring air defense regiment during this time.
                      52. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 25 September 2019 21: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: Ccsr
                        therefore, it was necessary to study all MO orders about incidents in the troops in order to draw conclusions
                        We all studied circulars on a regular basis, and made conclusions, but this did not affect the intensity of combat training - we must do the job and train subordinates qualitatively
                        Quote: Ccsr
                        I had a good commander
                        The vast majority were lucky with the commanders and no one was deprived of responsibility.
                        I was engaged in planning and participated in investigations - I think that combat training because it is called combat, which implies a high degree of exertion of forces and means, then easier. Suvorov talked about this.
                        You your comments so fiercely defended your vision of the situation that it seems that you were watching the process from the “sofa” - surprised
                      53. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 07: 38
                        +8
                        Tramp hi If the battalion, then it is most likely OBATO or signalmen. I know this structure from the inside - I happened to serve. In the GSVG, we threw our own grenades quite combat, our grenade launchers went to the firing range and fired from RPGs also combat. If you follow the concept of the opponent, then the ILs that reset the equipment must also be written off. The attack aircraft that fighters clear the place before the landing, that protect the landing site from the air enemy - also decommissioned. Well, how will what happen? Nonsense, however. In the GSVG, first of all, all the new equipment was on, our garrisons were under each bush. So that tanks on tank carriers I have never relocated somewhere, I have never seen how they run around the landfills on their own - I’ve seen enough. The point of transporting them somewhere, if there were two tank armies, and the GDR is a small country? Something is wrong here. request
                      54. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 09: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Something is wrong here.

                        hi A strange vision of the process of combat training. I think that those who really were responsible for the results would not agree with this position - they asked for the results personally. Those who really understand the figures in monetary terms, I also think I will not agree - the cost of such an approach will be obvious. Traditionally, the Suvorov approach is closer to us than Lord Dudley.
                        And as they said in one famous movie -and Allah will grant him success, in military and political training
                      55. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 09: 37
                        +7
                        I am very interested in the question, whose BMD are they crashed? In the sense, their place is permanent based. You know the reason, we have both the BTA and the Airborne Forces.
                      56. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 09: 45
                        +3
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Whose BMD did it crash? I mean, their permanent locations

                        These can be thrown from anywhere - the transfer process itself is a considerable part of combat training.
                        Returning to the previous discussion - if our opponent knows how to develop the sustainability of units, I would like to know. Even bottles are hit on the head for a reason, although each commander has his own way.
                      57. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 09: 50
                        +7
                        That's why I am interested in what could be ours.
                        And the opponent seems to have merged. Maybe I realized that I was wrong?
                      58. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 10: 21
                        +4
                        Quote: Leopold
                        ..the opponent seems to have merged. Maybe I realized that I was wrong?

                        No, I don’t agree - busy or asleep: we'll wait, although there’s nothing to talk about in general. I sincerely doubt that a person was personally responsible for BP. Random people and lords dudley have grown to high epaulettes and 'officials'
                      59. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 10: 35
                        +5
                        busy or sleeping

                        Nah, everything is in order, does not sleep. Present a little lower.
                      60. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 11: 29
                        -4
                        Quote: Leopold
                        And the opponent seems to have merged. Maybe I realized that I was wrong?

                        What is wrong - tell me more specifically, only without blah blah blah how cool we are, that we are ruining two combat vehicles for no reason. By the way, and who exactly is to blame for this emergency, I have not heard anything from anyone yet.
                      61. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 11: 47
                        +6
                        Everyone shoots at targets, but then they shoot from military weapons and not single ones. Tankers at the training grounds also work on combat training vehicles. Pilots and sailors are the same. So why should paratroopers drop models? In the army, everything is adult, and window dressing is already over the edge. That is exactly who is guilty, I do not know. I would only have to find out whose cars got wrecked. Representatives from all parts of the airborne forces were there.
                      62. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 13: 23
                        -4
                        Quote: Leopold
                        So why should paratroopers drop models?

                        Because the most expensive military equipment belongs to group 1.14, which just provides for landing during its development. And just for the sake of the whim of some near-minded commanders, to unnecessarily drop military vehicles, especially the 1st, 2nd and 3rd categories, I consider a crime, if not legally, but from a moral point of view. Therefore, this vicious practice must be changed, especially since after the Great Patriotic War I do not recall a single real combat landing of armored vehicles in our armed forces.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        I would only have to find out whose cars got wrecked.

                        What difference does it make if combat vehicles are destroyed and additional financing is necessary to eliminate the shortage. In the best case, take from storage databases, if any.
                      63. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 13: 47
                        +7
                        Then do not let the ships go on hikes, or planes in flight, otherwise what suddenly?
                        But it makes a difference to me, my brother-in-law serves there.
                      64. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 26 September 2019 13: 34
                        -2
                        Quote: ccsr
                        and who exactly is to blame for this emergency, I have not heard anything from anyone yet

                        Put on a view of Shoigu. How is this, you, and did not report wink
                      65. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 17: 39
                        -4
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Put on a view of Shoigu. How is this, you, and did not report

                        No, I think Shoigu himself will turn one place inside out for someone because they killed two cars because of someone’s negligence.
                      66. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 26 September 2019 17: 42
                        -4
                        Quote: ccsr
                        No, I think ...

                        Yah? belay

                        Quote: ccsr
                        who exactly is to blame for this emergency, I haven’t heard something from anyone yet

                        As far as I understand, nobody is obliged to report to you.
                      67. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 18: 58
                        -6
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        As far as I understand, nobody is obliged to report to you.

                        Well, you definitely don’t - I don’t perceive baby talk. But I have an interest in why this happened, that's why I hope to find out the reason for what happened.
                      68. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 11: 26
                        -4
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        . Even bottles are hit on the head for a reason, although each commander has his own way.

                        And bricks are burning, so that the brains do not suffer much.
                        True, what good is this, is still a mystery.
                      69. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 11: 47
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        . Even bottles are hit on the head for a reason, although each commander has his own way.
                        True, what good is this, is still a mystery.
                        You only convince yourself that you were never personally responsible for the BP process. Do you know a universal way to develop stability and a sense of elbow with blood / loss? Share, although about the use of the used - do not please.
                        Read about the psychology of maintaining a database - you will learn a lot of interesting things about motivation and sustainability.
                      70. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 13: 39
                        -5
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        You only convince yourself that you were never personally responsible for the BP process.

                        Once again you convinced me that you have no idea that in the USSR and now in Russia there are two armies - one for waging a strategic war using nuclear weapons, and the second for waging a war similar to the Great Patriotic War using only conventional weapons.
                        And all your ranting and eating away eggs are not for those who serve in the strategic link of our armed forces. Namely, they give us full protection against any attack, and not the mythical feats of the paratroopers in the future war - they will not be there, so take a sedative and can continue to engage in manilism in assessing who should learn how and how.
                        For me, this issue has long been resolved - somewhere in the mid-seventies, so you can continue to rub your chewing gum about motivation, but when you are on the alert you will feel a trickle of sweat on your back, then we will discuss how to fight further . If it’s simple - when you need to make a decision instantly, we ... to me on your motivation, not before that somehow. I know this from my own experience, believe me.
                      71. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 14: 02
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        You only convince yourself that you were never personally responsible for the BP process.

                        Once again you convinced me ...

                        Again staff, sent used vodka better
                        Listen monsieur strategist, for God's sake, thank you to listen to your lectures, otherwise we are more and more on the ground, with legs.
                        The general who pulled out O'Grady told a joke: briefly - when the superior is going to reason, the soldier wants to be banged before he starts ...
                      72. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 15: 00
                        -6
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Listen to Monsieur the strategist, for God's sake, please fire to listen to your lectures, otherwise we are more and more on the ground, with legs.

                        And what does this give you the right to assert that you know better than me the problems of personnel training? Do not make me laugh. And the fact that you have to explain the basics, about which you apparently did not suspect, it only once again convinces me what cool "specialists" are here demonstrating their thoughts.
                        Drink vodka, maybe it’s better for you to learn what others have long known.
                      73. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 16: 09
                        +2
                        You seem to be beguiled - I'm not your subordinate Monsieur staff.
                        Quote: ccsr
                        . you know the problems of personnel training better than me
                        Do you still think that throwing equipment is a big risk? I agree with you. Do you think this is not justified? I again agree with you, I also do not see the point in mass landings. So, probably, in order not to spend state money, the staff had to raise their debua and fulfill their official duties - explain this to the higher-ranking ones, give at least examples from modern history. Someone had planned all this, but it could have been organized in relation to the requirements of today - for the benefit of the cause. In fact, it turns out differently: the staff at the time “twist the voluptuous pa”, and Private Vasya Petechkin is engaged in window dressing according to yours. So who did not do their job as they should? Petechkin or staff? You need to be more modest and do your work 100%, then you won’t have to blush for subordinates, let alone report.
                        And I believe you, of course, but Suvorov’s ideas are closer to me, and not Lord Dudleyfire for God's sake
                      74. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 18: 20
                        -7
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        I am not your subordinate Monsieur staff.

                        You wouldn’t be able to become one - we didn’t keep such people.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        explain this to the superior, at least examples from modern history lead.

                        Never mind - they tried to explain, but this ended with the expulsion from the armed forces of those who were sick for the security of the country.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        Someone had planned all this, but it could have been organized in relation to the requirements of today - for the benefit of the cause.

                        How could I influence this? So, he spoke at the forum that it is time to curb the military leadership talents of some presumptuous military leaders, but as it turned out, here on the forum, very many "experts" in military service adhere to their views. And this is sad, some have too short memory ...
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        And I believe you, of course, but I’m closer to the ideas of Suvorov, not Lord Dudley, fire me for God's sake

                        This is usually trumped by those who do not understand at all that the outcome of a future war will be decided in minutes, and not by the dubious gestures of certain branches of the armed forces. So do not worry about Vasya Petechkina - it is unlikely that his help will be needed, everything will be decided without him.
                      75. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 20: 03
                        +3
                        Eka bore you, you drink some cold water .. If you believe your logic and the whole long track record at headquarters, then continue to do what you always did: then they were silent and trumped - do mercy, be silent now. There, your military leadership talents did not appreciate and you eventually drifted to VO - that’s the whole story ... Adieu
                      76. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 56
                        -5
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        According to your logic

                        This is not my logic - all this has long been known in the Soviet Army, you are simply not in the subject.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        then they were silent and trumped - do mercy, be silent now.

                        Why did you get that you only trumped then - then served with greater return, so do not judge from your bump. You don’t even understand that I was fortunate enough to serve in the most powerful army in the world, and not what is now left of it, and this just allows me to understand what errors have still not been fixed.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        There, your military talents were not appreciated, and in the end you were drifted to VO - that’s the whole story ...

                        The forum is open to everyone, so I went to it to find out what the people breathe. But if you really want to present yourself as a connoisseur, you can go to the For Truth forum and show everyone what a cool military expert you are. By the way, everyone there knows who and where he served, and the contingent there will be more serious - not everyone believes in the tales of some former military personnel.
                      77. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 27 September 2019 12: 42
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        you can go to the forum "For the Truth" and show everyone what a cool military expert you are

                        Stopped by, fun for. It seems that ccsr doesn’t kick only the lazy yes

                        So it was determined that ccsr, screaming and screaming wherever he screamed, that he is the most-most military of all the military, has no idea what is it about?

                        Bad memory + bad conscience multiplied by pathos = ccsr

                        However, the trend ...
                      78. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 13: 13
                        -4
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Stopped by, fun for. It seems that ccsr doesn’t kick only the lazy

                        Has the new nickname been used by "lazy"? Or under your nickname REZUNIST - that's how they dealt with you there long ago, and you fled from there.
                        Come again, they’ll take you to the table again.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        However, the trend ...

                        Well, leave a comment on "trends" so everyone can see the sparkle of your mind.
                        Or is it weak among military specialists to tell how well you know military affairs, including the educational process in which equipment is destroyed?
                      79. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 27 September 2019 13: 18
                        -1
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Under the new nickname "lazy" entered? Or under your nickname REZUNIST ...

                        ... not ... just logged in, and went through the search. It’s somehow not noticeable that you were greeted there request
                      80. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 13: 51
                        -4
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        ... not ... just logged in, and went through the search.

                        Do not lie - a specially defined text was selected, because there are different opinions.

                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        It’s somehow not noticeable that you were greeted there

                        But this is not a theater stage so that the audience admires you, but an open platform for communication, where it is interesting to listen to the opinions of those who know military affairs at the professional level.
                      81. Russia
                        Russia 27 September 2019 17: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        It’s somehow not noticeable that you were greeted there

                        Greetings Friend hi It turns out in our asshole kirzach? belay
                      82. A good one
                        A good one 27 September 2019 18: 24
                        -2
                        It is clear, he is from the category: "I fought, I hid in a trench, the Nazis passed by." What are you. recourse
                      83. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 13: 11
                        -6
                        Quote: Leopold
                        In the sense, their place is permanent based.

                        Listen to "military", if this is the standard equipment of the Airborne Forces regiment, then why the hell will it be stored at the VTA airfield - who will maintain and guard it? How to train the personnel of the regiment to fire from BMD at least - to drive people to the airfield every time?
                      84. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 13: 30
                        +8
                        Well, firstly, I am NOT a military, but slightly Militarized. You yourself understood what you are trying to convey to me ?. In our city, the Airborne Division and the VTA regiment are based, all at their places of deployment. No one bothers anyone, and joint actions are coordinated at the level of headquarters and command. There is also the former DOSAAF small airfield, where they train in individual throw almost every day. Just in my field of vision. I saw the airborne exits into the fields with and without equipment. All work out. What is wrong with you?
                      85. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 14: 56
                        -5
                        Quote: Leopold
                        The airborne division and the VTA regiment are based in our city,

                        Not every Airborne Division headquarters and all regiments are in one place - this is in the first place.
                        And secondly, why should the commander of the BTA regiment be responsible for other people's equipment - can you explain this?
                        Therefore, in parts of the airborne forces there is a fleet of its own, this is necessary at least in order to service the equipment constantly.
                      86. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 15: 11
                        +7
                        Here we have just the headquarters of the Airborne Division and stands, and also with it one of the regiments with its barracks and equipment parks. And I didn’t say that the airborne landing gear is stored by pilots, you took it from somewhere and attributed it to me. They themselves arrive at the airport, prepare and load. It seems everything is clear written?
                      87. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 18: 26
                        -5
                        Quote: Leopold
                        And I didn’t say that the airborne landing gear is stored by pilots, you took it from somewhere and attributed it to me.

                        And then how to interpret your text:
                        Quote: Leopold
                        I am very interested in the question, whose BMD are they crashed? In the sense, their place is permanent based. You know the reason, we have both the BTA and the Airborne Forces.

                        The issue of BMD ownership is not in doubt - they could belong to the regiment that was landing.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        It seems everything is clear written?

                        It is from the above question that misunderstandings arose.
                      88. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 19: 34
                        +6
                        Are you aware that the airborne divisions in Russia are dispersed? It is important for me to know whose infantry fighting vehicles fell, Pskov, Tula, Ivanovo, Kostroma or whose else? Is it so intelligible? How did you serve with such thinking at headquarters? There, while they ask a question, they must already have an answer. Or is it not so fast to think in MO? Well, I do not believe, at least shoot.
                      89. Russia
                        Russia 26 September 2019 21: 32
                        +1
                        From Ulyanovsk seven sides were definitely flying, they were flying at the dacha. Yes, and in the press they reported. drinks
                        And what kind of tree stump does it build of oak? Some kind of triangular winked
                      90. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 25
                        -5
                        Quote: Leopold
                        It is important for me to know whose infantry fighting vehicles fell, Pskov, Tula, Ivanovo, Kostroma or whose else?

                        What difference does it make if our armed forces suffer damage? What will it give you if this could happen in any military unit of the Airborne Forces, where this equipment is in service.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        How did you serve with such thinking at headquarters?

                        This is your thinking at the level of your collective farm, and I had to solve some issues that affected all the armed forces.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Or is it not so fast to think in MO?

                        Do not judge the orders in the MO from the point of view of the Ministry of Emergencies, and you will be happy. Whose cars were told to you over time, and it is quite possible that the information will not go through the press service of Moscow Region.
                      91. Leopold
                        Leopold 27 September 2019 13: 08
                        +7
                        This is your thinking at the level of your collective farm, and I had to solve some issues that affected all the armed forces.

                        Barsky habits do not let you sleep? So I will disappoint you, now we have one title - a pensioner. For this, excuse me, I'm tired of driving you from empty to empty. hi
                      92. Russia
                        Russia 27 September 2019 17: 31
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Quote: Leopold
                        It is important for me to know whose infantry fighting vehicles fell, Pskov, Tula, Ivanovo, Kostroma or whose else?

                        What difference does it make if our armed forces suffer damage? What will it give you if this could happen in any military unit of the Airborne Forces, where this equipment is in service.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        How did you serve with such thinking at headquarters?

                        This is your thinking at the level of your collective farm, and I had to solve some issues that affected all the armed forces.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Or is it not so fast to think in MO?

                        Do not judge the orders in the MO from the point of view of the Ministry of Emergencies, and you will be happy. Whose cars were told to you over time, and it is quite possible that the information will not go through the press service of Moscow Region.

                        Quote: ccsr
                        and you will be happy. Whose cars were told to you over time, and it is quite possible that the information will not go through the press service of Moscow Region.

                        To go nuts, the sofa of the guard, do not disgrace, and it’s good to drink on VO.
                      93. A good one
                        A good one 27 September 2019 15: 13
                        -2
                        Listen, well, you already got an ignoramus, everyone pulls up their equipment for training, well, what kind of storage is in place belay Lieutenant through the ensign, you already got here a connoisseur of the army from the pictures.
                      94. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 11: 22
                        -6
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Something is wrong here.

                        In your reasoning, everything is not so - pathos dofig, but essentially zero.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        If the battalion, then it is most likely OBATO or signalmen.

                        Figs to you - I talked about the battalion in the part where I started the service. But since you weren’t informed that there were almost 400 officers in addition to the battalion, your talk about OBATO and the communications battalion looks simply amateurish. Yes, and I served in the group of troops at headquarters - so twice past the checkout counter.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        If you follow the concept of the opponent, then the ILs that reset the equipment must also be written off.

                        Where did you see it in my words? Do not distort so primitively, especially since you hardly know at all about what concepts in the armed forces were about the airborne forces. By the way, why not a single airborne division was stationed in the GSVG - tell us about your "concept" in order to understand the depth of the flight of your thoughts.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        . So that tanks on tank trucks I’ve never relocated somewhere,

                        You have not seen much in the army, that’s why you don’t know how they brought armored vehicles to Spherenberg, for example, to conduct training with group officers. And you hardly heard about a separate automobile company in Kummersdorf-Gut, but it was not the only one.
                        So keep guessing on the coffee grounds, since it’s easier for you.
                      95. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 11: 53
                        +9
                        I understand that you are staff. He watched and participated to some extent over the actions of the Airborne Forces battalion in Finsterwald in the 84th. So I have the right to share my thoughts. By the way, they were delivered from the Union to the exercises for training, and such a task of transfer was also worked out for them.
                        So still, Wünsdorf? I was to the south, in Grossenhain.
                      96. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 12: 48
                        -6
                        Quote: Leopold
                        He watched and participated to some extent over the actions of the Airborne Forces battalion in Finsterwald in the 84th.

                        There were no Airborne Forces battalions in the GSVG, but there were only group SDBBRs and army SDBs, so don’t fool me if you don’t understand this.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        By the way, they were delivered from the Union to the exercises for training, and such a task of transfer was also worked out for them.

                        You obviously fantasized or mixed up the airborne forces and the group of airborne assault units. And why did the Airborne Forces battalion in the group at least think about it, especially considering their subordination?
                        Quote: Leopold
                        I understand that you are staff.

                        Staff, unlike you, always know the tasks of the group and its strength, that's why they do not fantasize about the arrival of airborne battalions. You should at least think about who they will make foreign passports for - it wasn’t a war, but in peacetime there was only one order, even for officers from the Defense Ministry and the General Staff arriving with an inspection.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        So still, Wünsdorf?

                        So this is obvious - I said that I served in the headquarters of the GSVG.
                      97. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 13: 10
                        +10
                        Think as you like, but we ate at the neighboring tables with food and managed to talk. What are such foreign passports? Apart from the military ID and the driver’s license, the conscripts had nothing. Passenger boards delivered us here and there, and their BTA. They brought for a couple of weeks to the exercises from the Union and at the end - back in the same way. Inspection officers are a completely different story. These were taken by train. You then ended up in the very collapse of the Union, and from here dance. I had been there before, there were no such horror stories. Tankers with a car transporter may be brought to the sides, but this is so that they do not ruin the take-off and taxiing. And so - on their own, they could cross the entire GDR in one march.
                        And with pathos I have that tight. Where does a simple soldier come from? Well, every other day I’ll be on the belt - airfield guard. But your modesty can only be envied. They didn’t even write a name near the nickname. Why so? Are they still classified?
                      98. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 14: 47
                        -6
                        Quote: Leopold
                        What are such foreign passports?

                        All officers and warrant officers.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        They brought for a couple of weeks to the exercises from the Union and at the end - back in the same way.

                        You just played, and you bought it.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Inspection officers are a completely different story. These were taken by train.

                        Why do you think so? Every day in the morning a flight flew from Chkalovsk to Spherenberg, and flew back after lunch. This is not counting the flights of other aircraft from other airfields. I myself flew several times and everywhere at the airfields there was a mandatory border control.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Tankers could be transported to the sides,

                        Our caterpillar armored vehicles were forbidden to move on German roads - only on landfills.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Well, every other day I’ll be on the belt - airfield guard.

                        And I really thought that at least the regimental headquarters decided to teach me ...
                        Quote: Leopold
                        They didn’t even write a name near the nickname. Why so? Are they still classified?

                        Very interested, you will find everything yourself.
                      99. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 14: 59
                        +4
                        Did I insist that you change your mind? The conscripts do not have passports, especially foreign ones, I don’t know how with that now. We have not yet agreed to switch to "you". Play me or not - think what you want. They had no reason to lie. I didn’t say that the tanks were rolled out on the roads, but I saw with my own eyes how they crossed the road. This is me as an urgent soldier, and so - the deputy head of the unit for dismissal. 27 years of service or is this not enough for you?
                      100. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 18: 03
                        -5
                        Quote: Leopold
                        I didn’t say that the tanks were rolling along the roads, but I saw how they crossed the road with my own eyes.

                        Where they "jumped" there was either a road belonging to the garrison, or, if it was a German road, decommissioned tracks were laid in the ground so as not to spoil the entire track. It was strictly forbidden to drive a tank past these crossings - such was the order even in Wünsdorf.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Conscripts do not have passports, especially foreign ones, I don’t know how to deal with it now.

                        The Airborne Forces battalion could not be sent to the GSVG without officers and ensigns. Yes, and there is no point in such a business trip - the total number of all those who could land in the GSVG was approximately the same as in the Airborne Division.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        27 years of service, or is it not enough for you?

                        Too much not to know some common truths, including questions of responsibility for destroyed equipment, even during exercises.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        and so - deputy chief of the unit

                        The position sounds strange - obviously not from the terminology of the Ministry of Defense, because there are commanders of units, and chiefs are usually in the names of other structures.
                      101. Leopold
                        Leopold 26 September 2019 19: 28
                        +7
                        Are you serious about the officers of the Airborne Battalion? Did they and fighters get on transporters or should they book a separate compartment? I am aware of the dead equipment. They dropped the radio station from the tower - they could not write them off for 6 years until it came together in time. I said - a little paramilitary, the Ministry of Emergencies is happy?
                      102. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 18
                        -3
                        Quote: Leopold
                        Are you serious about the officers of the Airborne Battalion?

                        More serious than you think - this was the order for all military personnel departing abroad in peacetime.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        I am aware of the dead equipment. They dropped the radio station from the tower - they could not write them off for 6 years until it came together in time.

                        It’s good that you at least understand what responsibility is for entrusted property. And they couldn’t write off the radio station as much as they didn’t want to - they would have to write it off according to the inspector’s act, and this would entail official proceedings, and no one wants to do this, so they were waiting for the station to end its life.
                        Quote: Leopold
                        I said - a little paramilitary, the Ministry of Emergencies is happy?

                        It is, all the more so since you served in the Ministry of Defense urgently.
                      103. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 13: 33
                        +3
                        Who are you, an eccentric man, and will you be building eyes here for servicemen?
                      104. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 14: 50
                        -6
                        Quote: Not bad
                        Who are you, an eccentric man, and will you be building eyes here for servicemen?

                        You can pull the farmer out of the village, but never take the village out of the farmer - so don’t worry, he carries manure from your posts, even if you clean the boots to a shine.
                      105. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 19: 54
                        +3
                        Yes, I look, my joy, you are still verbiage, dill seems, well, well, we will be familiar: wink
                        Hi Independent:
                      106. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 35
                        -5
                        Quote: Not bad
                        Hi Independent:

                        You started, uncle - I live in Moscow, but you are so illiterate that you don’t even know how to check it.
                      107. NN52
                        NN52 26 September 2019 20: 49
                        -1
                        ccsr (ccsr)
                        By the way ... do not specify your place of residence?
                      108. Russia
                        Russia 26 September 2019 21: 28
                        +3
                        Yes, he lived at the headquarters, near the officers' canteen, at the cistern. laughing
                      109. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 37
                        -5
                        Quote: Rusland
                        Yes, he lived at the headquarters, near the officers' canteen, at the cistern.

                        He gave another rude voice - a merry booth has gathered here, you can immediately see the "intellectuals" ...
                      110. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 10: 22
                        -9
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        I was engaged in planning and participated in investigations - I think that combat training is therefore called combat training, which implies a high degree of tension of forces and means, then it is easier.

                        Well, so as not to engage in verbiage, what "high degree of stress on forces and means," occurs during a BMD landing without a crew, if the preparation for the landing is carried out on decommissioned equipment, which is thrown away instead of combat? Explain in a popular way how combat training will deteriorate from replacing military equipment with a decommissioned one at the time of landing?
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        You your comments so fiercely defended your vision of the situation that it seems that you were watching the process from the “sofa” - surprised

                        Unlike various illiterate people, I know very well what the cost of military equipment is, which is why I have a different point of view on how it is destroyed. Especially for such people I would like to inform you that in Soviet times our base T-72 tank was estimated according to various sources from $ 1,8 to $ 2,3 million, and a premium Mercedes for Grachev cost 180 thousand. marks (about 100 thousand dollars at that time) and this trend has remained approximately until now. Considering that the BMD is about two times cheaper than a tank, then during our studies, or rather, in a few tens of seconds of flight, we destroyed about 20 brand new Mercedes in the form of two destroyed BMDs. And we, like fools, should rejoice at this, telling everyone how important it is for our combat readiness - well, well ...
                        Apparently, the collapse of the USSR did not teach anyone anything, and it’s sad since even those who seemingly know what it takes to train troops cannot draw conclusions.
                      111. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 11: 17
                        +5
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Apparently the collapse of the USSR did not teach anyone anything
                        Maybe someone didn’t teach, he personally strengthened me in the thought that his work should be done with at least 100% return.
                        It’s a pity that such illiterate like you, have not done their job to the end. Silently look at how mercenary luxury Mercier traded themselves, do not need much. Good luck
                      112. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 12: 02
                        -8
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        It’s a pity that such illiterate people as you did not do their job to the end. Silently look at how mercenary luxury Mercier traded themselves, do not need much. Good luck

                        You showed yourself to be ignorant here too, because the translation of an article from a German magazine about the purchase of two Mercedes by Grachev was made at the headquarters of the Western Group of Forces at once, and was reported to the leadership of the armed forces, which slowed down this fact. Well, a couple of years later an article was published in Moskovsky Komsomolets, but then Grachev was already the "best minister" and Yeltsin did not give him offense. Unfortunately, I could not somehow influence the situation with Grachev - but I am glad that you blamed me for this, thereby dramatically increasing my rank in government decision-making.
                      113. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 12: 36
                        +4
                        Quote: ccsr
                        ..increasing my rank in government decision-making.

                        I am very glad that I helped to increase your self-esteem, I did a good deed in the morning. But you inattentively read the written: do you see the semantic difference? Anyway. The story of the departure of the GSVG was covered not only in Moscow Komsomol members, did not read, I prefer to use the originals
                      114. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 12: 52
                        -9
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        good deed done in the morning.

                        Well, how not to praise yourself ...
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        see the semantic difference?

                        No, I don’t see.
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        I prefer to use originals

                        What are these "originals"?
                      115. Pete mitchell
                        Pete mitchell 26 September 2019 13: 04
                        +6
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Quote: Pete Mitchell
                        see the semantic difference?

                        No, I don’t see.
                        Read more, learn to distinguish barter и acquire, and not only that.
                        Have a nice day, do not read in poor lighting
                      116. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 14: 18
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        but I am glad that you blamed me, thereby sharply increasing my rank in making government decisions.

                        What a good boy, do not play with a rank. smile
                        Judging by the blue on the pagon, the astronaut is clearly.
                      117. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 14: 36
                        -9
                        Quote: Not bad
                        What a good boy, do not play with a rank.
                        Judging by the blue on the pagon, the astronaut is clearly.

                        Yes, I had to serve at the point for observing space objects and luminaries for several years. Do you even know, "girl" what it is and what it is eaten with?
                      118. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 15: 07
                        +4
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Quote: Not bad
                        What a good boy, do not play with a rank.
                        Judging by the blue on the pagon, the astronaut is clearly.

                        Yes, I had to serve at the point for observing space objects and luminaries for several years. Do you even know, "girl" what it is and what it is eaten with?

                        You keep the tongue of the balabol about your service, it’s not accepted here, you have served the honor too, otherwise you’ll receive a pendal from the curators at once.
                      119. ccsr
                        ccsr 26 September 2019 17: 45
                        -9
                        Quote: Not bad
                        You’re holding a tongue then balabol about your service, here it’s not accepted,

                        You, too, did not bother to bite him, wise guy.
                        Moreover, they torture me all the time, but where, although I just avoided it.
                        Quote: Not bad
                        otherwise you’ll get pendal from the curators at once.

                        Knocking is developed here, I have known for a long time. Although he himself has never complained about his opponents in any forum, because I consider this a vile affair. Good luck to you, observer of morality.
                      120. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 19: 47
                        +2
                        Well, what squealing? Man, wake up! Turn on your brains, it looks like you're a kid from the gateway, are you starting to divulge state secrets from your dad's diaries?
                      121. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 33
                        -5
                        Quote: Not bad
                        Turn on your brains, it looks like you're a kid from the gateway, are you starting to divulge state secrets from your dad's diaries?

                        Have you ever seen one living traitor in your entire service? I think not, so about the disclosure of state secrets, for example, ask the adviser to President Illarionov, who teaches in the United States.
                        And then, if you turn on the brains, you will understand that what I am writing about has long been sold to the Americans by the same Ukrainian military, or the Baltic, who remained in our former republics and began to serve their new rulers. I'm not saying that almost all Soviet secrets were sold about 25 years ago, when everyone began to curry favor with the Americans, including some figures in Russia.
                      122. A good one
                        A good one 26 September 2019 20: 02
                        +4
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Moreover, they torture me all the time, but where, although I just avoided it.

                        Yes, that's why they pinched you here, it's good to run and squirm, who are you and how are you breathing? SBUshnik? Look into the eyes!
                      123. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 11: 45
                        -6
                        Quote: Not bad
                        Yes, that's why they pinched you here, it's good to run and squirm, who are you and how are you breathing? SBUshnik? Look into the eyes!

                        As a matter of fact, I once came to Noy-Timan to check the brigade, in which V.V. Kvachkov was the chief of staff, and with whom I subsequently came across during my service in Moscow. And she had to be taken out in 91, so past the cashier, "Commissioner Maigret" - you are too weak to assess officers of my level, not mature enough yet.
                      124. A good one
                        A good one 27 September 2019 14: 01
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        Actually, I once came to Neu-Tymen to check the brigade, which was the headquarters of V.V.Kvachkov

                        So who to whom did you clean the boots to? I would personally order a commemorative medal in honor of V.V. Kvachkova. wink
                      125. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 18: 51
                        -3
                        Quote: Not bad
                        So who to whom did you clean the boots to?

                        I did not know that all your intellect revolves around the boots, I regret that I did not use another word.
                        Quote: Not bad
                        I would personally order a commemorative medal in honor of V.V. Kvachkova.

                        I don’t have to order anything myself - they give me signs that you will never have for sure.
                      126. Russia
                        Russia 26 September 2019 21: 44
                        +3
                        Quote: ccsr
                        But he was a member of the commission of the part for testing knowledge of TB and admitting personnel to independent work

                        In short loafer. laughing I sent one to the ensign Belousov, for fun, so he, the lieutenant, helped him unload the car. smile
                      127. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 13: 28
                        -7
                        Quote: Rusland
                        I sent one to the ensign Belousov, for fun, so he, the lieutenant, helped him unload the car.

                        You are definitely illiterate - this is a contingency position and the composition of the commission is determined by an annual order. But since you didn’t issue annual orders on your collective farm, or you were not allowed to visit them, you don’t know that there are a dozen of such commissions in the decent part, starting with a secret inspection commission. Remember the materiel, if the memory is lost ...
                      128. Russia
                        Russia 27 September 2019 13: 47
                        +2
                        Quote: ccsr
                        that there are a dozen such commissions in a decent part

                        So you dangled in decent or non-decent parts, wise guy. belay
                      129. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 18: 37
                        -2
                        Quote: Rusland
                        So you dangled in decent or non-decent parts, wise guy.

                        Mostly those where you didn’t allow people like you, not only because of regime restrictions, but also because of their unfitness. Parts were very decent, some of the best in the country.
                      130. Russia
                        Russia 27 September 2019 13: 50
                        +2
                        Quote: ccsr
                        You are definitely illiterate - this is a contingency position and the composition of the commission is determined by an annual order.

                        What are you talking about? Where did I see the contingency post? I ask again, are you an officer or where? You yearn for past checks, idler, turn on the inspector's brains. laughing
                      131. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 18: 45
                        -4
                        Quote: Rusland
                        What are you talking about?

                        You still don’t understand, illiterate.
                        Quote: Rusland
                        Where did I see the contingency post?

                        All commissions in units usually consist of temporarily appointed, with the exception of the State Technical Commission, there were full-time positions. However, for you this is a Chinese letter.
                        Quote: Rusland
                        You yearn for past checks, idler, turn on the inspector's brains.

                        Relax verbiage - I had to check the parts only in the GSVG, and even that was in addition to performing my main duties. However, you are still not in the topic, so do not be smart, you would never have been allowed to do this.
                      132. Russia
                        Russia 27 September 2019 18: 58
                        0
                        Quote: ccsr
                        However, you’re still not in the subject,

                        I’m just, dear man, not a talker, and I would have wiped your nosybear with your knowledge and experience, it’s just ridiculous to look at you, well, like a sailor after the first year of dancing in my village. smile
                      133. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 19: 02
                        -4
                        Quote: Rusland
                        I'm just, dear man, not a talker,

                        Yes, and stupid too ...
                      134. Russia
                        Russia 27 September 2019 19: 13
                        +2
                        Well, just some kind of kindergarten. request
                      135. ccsr
                        ccsr 27 September 2019 19: 41
                        -3
                        Quote: Rusland
                        Well, just some kind of kindergarten.

                        I here asked a question to the "military experts" from the forum - why in the most powerful grouping of Soviet troops there was not a single airborne division, but for some reason all the clever people fled from this simple question.
                        To you, sand spilling for children, I personally ask the question - why did the General Staff leave such a powerful group of troops without Airborne Forces, if there were even parts of the Baltic Fleet on the GSVG territory?
                        Show the class - enlighten the audience that faded from this answer ....
              6. Souchastnik
                Souchastnik 23 September 2019 09: 29
                +1
                Journalists wrote about the "damage". I don't think the military could say that.
              7. Govorun
                Govorun 23 September 2019 10: 26
                +5
                You already start shouting Putin is to blame ... otherwise it’s not convincing
              8. Den717
                Den717 23 September 2019 12: 12
                +10
                Quote: DEPHIHTO
                I don’t have facts, there is only distrust in lying to MO

                Have you ever seen a car after an accident with at least one corpse inside to a similar extent of destruction? This usually happens in a head-on collision at high speed. The scene of the incident usually then has a lot of noticeable traces of blood and body parts of the deceased. The crew of the BMD is at least three people. But even the presence of only one MB with such destruction would be noticeable in the photograph. Especially in the photo of the car that is completely destroyed. Yes, the soldiers would not be there, but there would be people from the military prosecutor's office, forensic doctors, and the territory was fenced in accordance with all the rules for allocating a scene. So for all the indirect ones, the cars were without crews. From my point of view, there is no reason to suspect anything other than that given by the MO.
              9. Witness 45
                Witness 45 23 September 2019 13: 24
                +2
                Well, then write that a whole regiment of the airborne forces crashed during exercises, because there are no facts refuting this statement, and in general, there is a lot of noise because of nothing, the loss of two pieces of equipment at such large-scale exercises is a miser that is not worth attention, but a puncture of the Patriot system by the Saudis, yes, it’s great that they have tarnished the reputation of the arms business of your idols, I hate the distributors of fake information, they immediately put them to the wall in the war and did it right.
            2. Yngvar
              Yngvar 23 September 2019 07: 06
              +31
              The son, a participant in these exercises, writes BMD, was without crews! There is always a risk, in this case it is not justified ... And therefore the management did not risk it.
              1. figwam
                figwam 23 September 2019 07: 38
                +10
                The interesting thing is that phones with military cameras are prohibited, but everything has already been taken and photographed.)
                1. bessmertniy
                  bessmertniy 23 September 2019 07: 49
                  0
                  The tagged one has long been gone, but its GLASNESS remains. request
              2. Super
                Super 23 September 2019 15: 00
                -3
                The daughter of an officer?
            3. Super
              Super 23 September 2019 14: 53
              -4
              Can't you speak Russian, liberalist? Russophobe the damned ...
      2. Monar
        Monar 23 September 2019 06: 42
        +5
        And can the latest examples of landing with the crew? Well, at least a year there?
        And on your "Think". Just imagine how much blood there would be.
        1. Avior
          Avior 23 September 2019 07: 47
          +3
          Last year it was definitely
      3. svp67
        svp67 23 September 2019 06: 45
        +7
        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        A little lie creates a lot of mistrust ..

        You are sure, you said about your comment ... It goes to the point. Do you have specific information or are you a specialist in PDS?
      4. Xnumx vis
        Xnumx vis 23 September 2019 07: 38
        +7
        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        Think without a crew? A little lie creates a lot of mistrust ..

        Of course with the crew! there were about one hundred and fifty paratroopers in the cars ..! Putin and Shoigu are all lying! "Comrades, no meat is reported to the tiger in the zoo! Before it's too late, save the predator!"! Https: //www.youtube.com/watch? V = Upry8Fb7MpQ
      5. Prisoner
        Prisoner 23 September 2019 07: 55
        +4
        If there had been a crew, they wouldn’t have found the photograph with fire during the day. Do not cast a shadow over the wattle fence.
      6. EvilLion
        EvilLion 23 September 2019 08: 16
        +11
        Landing with the crew has always been nothing more than an experienced window dressing. The commanders somehow do not want to risk the whole squad of boys in peacetime. They and so emergency when landing, are not uncommon.
        1. Prisoner
          Prisoner 23 September 2019 17: 00
          +1
          That's right. The Lord’s paths are not confessed, but to jump is not a rural street to cross. And to drop an entire regiment with equipment, this is minus two years allotted by the Lord to the top of the regiment.
      7. Aldmit_2
        Aldmit_2 23 September 2019 08: 16
        +2
        Familiar nickname what I have not met you in Gordon?
      8. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 23 September 2019 09: 10
        +3
        you want to reveal a terrible secret? when during the union the equipment was beating, it was drowning, burned, did you know about it? while it was fighting, it burned and drowned regularly. and with the victims quite often. do you want to accuse the USSR Ministry of Defense of hiding these facts by accident? Well, what honestly?
      9. lukewarm
        lukewarm 23 September 2019 09: 21
        +3
        Quote: DEPHIHTO
        A small lie gives rise to great distrust.

        You can't argue with that. There is also very great distrust. True, knowing this and the number of "well-wishers", accusers and other "truth-lovers" I strongly doubt that they would hide it. When in Syria, PMCs and so on - yes. And here you see for yourself - the tank sank, the commander died - they reported, even here on VO there was news. The paratroopers died - they reported. So I'm not an optimist myself, but I would suggest not to aggravate wink Will figure it out. By the way, Humviks fought at the "partners". True, they threw them differently. It seems. I do not remember.
    2. svp67
      svp67 23 September 2019 06: 47
      +15
      Quote: Angry 55
      Judging by the leftovers

      Now at least a part of the "caps" will subside, realizing that this happens not only among Americans. But the ranks of the "all-fledged" will grow ...
    3. kjhg
      kjhg 23 September 2019 06: 53
      +12
      Last year, here at VO, some neighing over how several Hammers crashed during the American exercises during the landing. Well then they are silent now? Where are your jokes?
      Here it is. No one is safe from unfortunate accidents and gouging. I do not like it, but I have to poke some into their own ... oh. How cats have to be taught not to do this.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Tsoy
        Tsoy 23 September 2019 08: 47
        +1
        Quote: kjhg
        Last year, here at VO, some neighing over how several Hammers crashed during the American exercises during the landing. Well then they are silent now? Where are your jokes?


        By the way, the sergeant who deliberately cut the parachute cables was to blame. Tolley crazy, felts. Human factor.
      3. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 23 September 2019 09: 14
        +3
        Well, first of all, remember that video and the wild joy of those who listen to this action. it’s pretty funny because stupid joy she somehow doesn’t hide. secondly, excuse me, they fell one after another, remember how and for what reasons? You really do not understand the difference between a system that did not work normally and a machine that fell out of this system? There is a difference between the fact that the car’s wheel was torn off on the move and the punched wheel was under the same conditions.
      4. Lexus
        Lexus 23 September 2019 12: 20
        +1
        Alas, many, incl. on VO, slipped to "neighbors with a fork", who also do not rejoice at our failures and troubles.
      5. Saul_Rhen
        Saul_Rhen 23 September 2019 17: 47
        -1
        I propose to declare national mourning for the innocently killed BMDs. This is such grief ... There are no words ... Also, the whole country to repent and ask the Americans for forgiveness.
    4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
      Obi-Wan Kenobi 23 September 2019 06: 54
      +2
      It seems that the pilot chute is not "attached".
      1. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 23 September 2019 09: 35
        +1
        It seems that the pilot chute is not "attached".

        and how did the equipment leave the board?
      2. Yngvar
        Yngvar 23 September 2019 11: 09
        +3
        I agree with you! Judging by the video, the exhaust did not come out, the reason was either not hooked, or the halyard broke ...
        1. Bad thing
          Bad thing 23 September 2019 15: 26
          +1
          Igor, the exhaust came out, otherwise the car would not have gotten out of the plane, but the main system has not uncovered - this is a question
          1. Yngvar
            Yngvar 23 September 2019 16: 37
            0
            Perhaps I am not a specialist in parachuting equipment, although the very "minimum" has 12 jumps, the infantry in general ...
    5. Civil
      Civil 23 September 2019 07: 44
      +1
      Yes, well, if there are jambs and failures everywhere, it cannot be that there are no overlays here. I hope the commission will sort it out.
    6. Lbt21
      Lbt21 23 September 2019 10: 49
      -3
      So they kind of promised with the crew! Or, in principle, if the landing was successful then with the crew, and if not, then without the crew!
    7. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 September 2019 12: 11
      -3
      BLD 2 - a combat tortilla of an airborne assault, an armored car just flew into smithereens
  2. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 23 September 2019 06: 13
    +4
    All the same, it is not in vain that the crews are landing separately from their vehicles ... Sitting in technology, the risk increases, and the benefit is doubtful from the fact that they will sit there.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 23 September 2019 06: 33
      +1
      But Vasily Filippovich didn’t do that! I advocated the turnaround precisely for the drop out with the crew
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 23 September 2019 07: 29
        +10
        Quote: Nehist
        But Vasily Filippovich didn’t do that! I advocated the turnaround precisely for the drop out with the crew

        And rightly advocated. In a combat situation, it is justified
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 23 September 2019 07: 31
          +4
          So I about the same, in the database the main factor is time !!! But how can I explain this to many in VO ?!
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 23 September 2019 07: 32
            +7
            Quote: Nehist
            But how can I explain this to many in VO ?!

            But you must? laughing

            Quote: Nehist
            So I about the same, in the database the main factor is time !!!

            As far as I know, the Airborne Forces have powerful restrictions on educational landing related to security.
            1. Nehist
              Nehist 23 September 2019 07: 41
              +5
              But only in the case of real databases all the rules go to the furnace! Charters and manuals are not dogma but a guide to action. As far as I remember, an artilleryman with great practice, in non-regular situations, time is everything. Well, and an airborne assault force (which does not have regular heavy small arms) any BTT, even with cardboard armor but with a large barrel, is critical. The fact that we have used the Airborne Forces recently for other purposes is to the General Staff
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 23 September 2019 07: 57
                +7
                Quote: Nehist
                in non-regular situations, time is everything

                Not just time. Everything is much tougher.
                1. Nehist
                  Nehist 23 September 2019 08: 02
                  +4
                  Right now, human rights defenders stumble !!! All the same, the term permissible losses does not fit into the head of many ... Unfortunately, this is an army reality ... For its 11 years of service, not a single exercise was without loss, at least 3-4 two-hundredths have always been
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 23 September 2019 08: 07
                    +2
                    There is a rather illustrative example of the calculation by the Americans during WW II of the density of the formation of bombers, that is, the distances between them.
                    To minimize the time over the object on the one hand, which means reducing losses from anti-aircraft fire, and on the other hand, leaving the losses from aircraft collisions among themselves within reasonable limits.
                    1. Nehist
                      Nehist 23 September 2019 08: 13
                      +1
                      Um ... The density of anti-aircraft fire has always been different, the Americans have not climbed to height for nothing (fire density is not critical) I agree that they are right in their unshakable doctrine (let dozens of civilians die than one American soldier) So those who constantly laugh here GI is not too smart
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 23 September 2019 10: 29
                        +3
                        You do not understand a bit.
                        The smaller the distance between the planes, the less likely to die from anti-aircraft fire and the higher the probability of dying in a collision.

                        And they mathematically calculated at what distances the planned losses of their pilots would be minimal
          2. Bad thing
            Bad thing 23 September 2019 15: 11
            +6
            Many on VO, at one time successfully skipped, and now after reading the wiki and Xperts in Zen have their own opinion, "the only correct".
      2. Witness 45
        Witness 45 23 September 2019 13: 34
        0
        Now is the time of peace, there is no need to jeopardize once again the lives of crew members. but during the war it’s another matter, the fulfillment of a combat mission in a timely and efficient manner justifies everything.
      3. Prisoner
        Prisoner 23 September 2019 17: 12
        +1
        Under him, there was less mess in the troops. Therefore, he sent his own son to the test.
    2. Monar
      Monar 23 September 2019 06: 52
      +11
      and the benefit is dubious

      Well, let's count. 100m touchdown accuracy. BMD crew. Turn off the parachute. Run these 100 m with full equipment. Take a place in BMD. How much does the stopwatch count there?
      Another issue is the reliability of parachute systems.
      Not an excuse for ours. Here the Hamers flew -
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfFfxaRmPpc
      I'll even reveal the "secret" to you. Parachutists fight constantly. Both military and civilian. In all countries. Where parachutes are used.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 23 September 2019 07: 41
        +6
        Quote: Monar
        Turn off the parachute. Run these 100 m with full equipment. Take a place in BMD. How much does the stopwatch count there?

        Forgot one more point of the plan. "to find". For what there is a specialized equipment "Collection". With radio beacons on cars, and radio receivers-direction finders from, if I'm not mistaken, mechanics
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 23 September 2019 07: 57
          +2
          Which usually do not work ... There is little sense from them, the best option if the equipment is in direct view. Not for nothing from the beginning there is a plane with equipment and then with crews. And here’s where’s the dilemma? ... It's like a rifleman, I won’t go when I’m not shot, because it’s pointless, there’s zero benefit ...
        2. Monar
          Monar 23 September 2019 08: 13
          +1
          Did not know. Thank.
        3. EvilLion
          EvilLion 23 September 2019 08: 19
          +1
          The direction finder does not precisely determine the direction, since the maximum signal is observed both in the direction to the source and from it. Similarly, a person will not be able to understand with closed eyes where the source of noise is, directly in front of him, or right behind him.
          1. Avior
            Avior 23 September 2019 09: 13
            +2
            Have you ever chased foxes? smile
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 23 September 2019 09: 49
              +2
              No, but uncle BMD-1 drove to Pskov’s 76 and, after throwing it, he came across this phenomenon, that you can go in the opposite direction after landing. As he recalled, landed, 5 hours later collected.
              1. Avior
                Avior 23 September 2019 11: 07
                -1
                Nachfiz in the regiment needed to develop sports direction finding among the crews. And cross, and the ability to find equipment in one bottle hi
              2. Doliva63
                Doliva63 23 September 2019 15: 56
                +3
                Quote: EvilLion
                No, but uncle BMD-1 drove to Pskov’s 76 and, after throwing it, he came across this phenomenon, that you can go in the opposite direction after landing. As he recalled, landed, 5 hours later collected.

                Yeah, there was such a thing in SpN too. True, they were not looking for BMD.
          2. Lopatov
            Lopatov 23 September 2019 10: 33
            0
            Who cares, you still need to look. laughing
      2. Rzzz
        Rzzz 23 September 2019 08: 28
        +1
        In the case of the Hamers - there is a human factor, they say, was. Some stoned soldier cut the slings for fun.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 23 September 2019 09: 54
          +2
          Well, it will now pay. And he, and his children, and his grandchildren, although whoever now goes for him with such a duty ... But in general, this should be considered a diversion. Although drowning a tank, or burning it through stupidity of an armored personnel carrier, in any army is a common thing.
      3. ccsr
        ccsr 23 September 2019 20: 21
        -5
        Quote: Monar
        Well, let's count. 100m touchdown accuracy. BMD crew. Turn off the parachute. Run these 100 m with full equipment. Take a place in BMD. How much does the stopwatch count there?

        And you didn’t get the idea to calculate how much it would cost us to fly 70 transport aircraft for one Airborne Regiment, if for this you need to conduct at least an air-ground operation by forces of several air regiments of the Airborne Forces, and it is hardly possible to achieve complete suppression of enemy air defense? Well, for the seed, how can you hide from our likely enemy the take-off of such an armada of planes, so as not to be surprised then that half of the landing will die without entering the landing zone. So if you count all the costs with a calculator, and the price of such an operation, you can come to a discouraging conclusion - even an OTP regiment with nuclear charges will do much cheaper and faster things that not only the regiment, but also the Airborne Division is not able to achieve.
  3. Lyapis
    Lyapis 23 September 2019 06: 23
    +10
    As a result of a malfunction of parachute systems in a collision with the ground, both cars were damaged.

    MO, let’s say frankly, they crashed soft-boiled. laughing
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 23 September 2019 17: 49
      0
      + This is just an official clerical language. Nothing special. hi
  4. Zeev Zeev
    Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 06: 31
    0
    It is precisely because of such cases that it is impossible to drop equipment together with crews.
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 06: 41
      -3
      In peacetime, it is better to exclude possible casualties due to human or technical factors.
      1. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 06: 42
        +6
        In wartime, casualties due to the human factor are also best excluded.
        1. DEDPIHTO
          DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 06: 43
          +6
          It is better to exclude wartime.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 23 September 2019 07: 45
          +1
          Quote: Zeev Zeev
          In wartime, casualties due to the human factor are also best excluded.

          And therefore it is necessary to drop in the technique. To exclude additional victims.
          1. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 08: 39
            -1
            The quality of training equipment in wartime will clearly deteriorate and there will be much more non-combat losses.
            1. garri-lin
              garri-lin 23 September 2019 09: 48
              0
              In wartime, the right commanders will improve quality. One thing is a toy in war games and another when they put it on the wall for marriage without leaving the box office. A couple of three precedents and the people will double-check themselves ten times.
              1. Zeev Zeev
                Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 10: 19
                -4
                Under Stalin, they put to the wall only in a way. But the level of non-combat losses was at the level of combat all the time.
                1. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 23 September 2019 11: 21
                  +1
                  Non-combat losses from what? Injury? Diseases? A good soldier, trained by life, is responsible for ALL his equipment himself. Elementary control by the commander of the landing vehicle would help to avoid the "human factor" and it does not matter that the landing is separate. Finding themselves on the ground and being left without a car in battle is a disaster. This is death. A crew understanding this would control all stages of training. And the parachute handlers knew that they were being watched and if something happened they could be mutilated for marriage.
                  1. Zeev Zeev
                    Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 11: 31
                    -2
                    The parachute handlers knew that the war would write off everything. This is exactly what happened near Vyazma, when out of almost three thousand paratroopers, only 1300 came to the assembly point. How many of them died from improperly laid parachutes or a factory defect? But the acceptance was tough and for "sabotage" (or rather for crooked hands) they shot a lot.
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 23 September 2019 11: 52
                      0
                      It turns out that any coin has two sides. I know many examples when negligence in the preparation of military equipment was punished exponentially and harshly (not cruelly, namely harshly). After such events, the people double-checked themselves. It seems to be effective. But your example also had a place to be. Perhaps it will depend on the Fathers of Commanders. If he gives the order to check this one. And if he climbs everything out, checking it is different. Well, at least in this particular case, there were no casualties.
                      1. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 12: 06
                        +1
                        From my own experience of the army service, I know that when a person works from under a stick, the result is usually depressing. That is, everything seems to be correct, but something is wrong at the output. And the improvement after harsh punishment is always temporary. And when they do business not for fear, but for conscience, the result is many times better.
                        But this is all the lyrics. Returning to the topic of landing in technology: it’s better to have a gouged BMD and a separate crew standing nearby than all this in one heap of meat and iron.
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 23 September 2019 12: 11
                        0
                        There is such a factor as fatigue. Here with her conscience struggles with difficulty, I know from myself. And a good shake after the "wick" makes you run even on legs that are bent from fatigue.
                      3. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 12: 27
                        +1
                        Yeah. I ran for a sight and fell in a corner. And so after ten minutes you get out to take a nap and go to do it.
                      4. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 23 September 2019 12: 37
                        +1
                        It depends on the wick. There is a good example in the "9th company" when Fedya the bald one presses young animals for sleeping at the post. Taken from life. After such a wick and a pair of knocked out teeth, the level of responsibility increased. And if there is also a photo pokpzat what the cockpit turns into if F1 is thrown into it. Here, just do the people understand that the life of comrades is not a toy and the service should be taken seriously.
                    2. Captain45
                      Captain45 23 September 2019 12: 33
                      0
                      Quote: Zeev Zeev
                      The parachute stowers knew that the war would write everything off. What happened near Vyazma when only 1300 left the almost three thousand paratroopers at the gathering point.

                      As far as I remember from the VO article on the Vyazemsky landing operation, because of the dense anti-aircraft fire, the planes dispersed over a large area and began to throw out the air force as best they could, because of which it turned out that the landing party scattered over a large area and simply could not go to gathering point. Also, some planes began to throw troops, falling almost to the height of trees, and paratroopers jumped into the snow without opening parachutes.
                      1. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 12: 59
                        0
                        "Dense anti-aircraft fire" is a cool excuse for the NKVD, so that the pilot is not shot for losing his bearings over a snow-covered forest, where there are no clear landmarks and landing in the middle of something unknown. It's good that the cornflower-blue ones did not know that the anti-aircraft guns were not along the entire front line, but only near the protected objects.
                    3. Monar
                      Monar 23 September 2019 12: 44
                      0
                      How many of them died from improperly laid parachutes or factory defects?
                      And how many? 1700 or 1699?
                      1. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 13: 01
                        0
                        Unknown But obviously not one, not ten, but much more.
                      2. Monar
                        Monar 23 September 2019 13: 51
                        +1
                        Those. It’s known, but you say?
                        Funny logic.
                      3. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 13: 59
                        0
                        That is, losses during the landing made up more than half of the personnel personally and they were all non-combat.
                      4. Monar
                        Monar 23 September 2019 15: 03
                        +2
                        More than 1500 defective or improperly laid parachutes? Every second? And this is, as you say
                        acceptance was tough and for "sabotage" (or rather for crooked hands) shot a lot.
                      5. Zeev Zeev
                        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 15: 07
                        0
                        What country were you born in? IN USSR? What is window dressing, fraud, storming know?
                      6. Monar
                        Monar 23 September 2019 16: 09
                        +1
                        And how is my birth related to your absolutely unfounded statement about defective and crookedly laid parachutes? Yes, even 1500 in one landing.
                        Besides "this is the USSR" you have no arguments. And yours
                        The parachute stowers knew that the war would write everything off.
                        the minimum is not correct.
                        To summarize, it will work out.
                        1. Producers of scammers.
                        2. Stackers do not care.
                        3. Pilots fraudsters.
                    4. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 23 September 2019 15: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: Zeev Zeev
                      The parachute stowers knew that the war would write everything off. What happened near Vyazma when only 1300 left the almost three thousand paratroopers at the gathering point. How many of them died from improperly laid parachutes or factory marriage?

                      And do you know that paratroopers are not on the bar, and everyone put on his own parachute?
                    5. ccsr
                      ccsr 26 September 2019 14: 21
                      -1
                      Quote: Zeev Zeev
                      How many of them died from improperly laid parachutes or factory defects?

                      Most likely, neither one nor the other, but this happens when there is no normal place for storing parachutes and they, having absorbed moisture, are simply glued together in ice in the cold. That is why in winter such incidents most often occur.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 23 September 2019 10: 26
              +2
              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              The quality of training equipment in wartime will clearly deteriorate and there will be much more non-combat losses.

              It is forbidden to run under enemy fire. Suddenly a fighter stumbles, hits his head and dies. This is unacceptable. Only a step, carefully inspecting the place where to put the foot.
              1. Captain45
                Captain45 23 September 2019 13: 05
                0
                Quote: Spade
                It is forbidden to run

                Quote: Spade
                Suddenly a fighter stumbles, hits his head. This is unacceptable. Only a step, carefully inspecting the place where to put the foot.

                In this way, the sapper moves away from the set on fire Bikford cord laughing So the instructor explained to us in the classroom.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 23 September 2019 13: 12
                  +4
                  Quote: Captain45
                  In this way, the sapper moves away from the set on fire Bikford cord

                  Ghm ... why bother leaving him at all? If it is long enough - he will depart from you himself)))
                2. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 23 September 2019 15: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Captain45
                  In this way, the sapper moves away from the set on fire of a Bikford cord laughing. So instructor explained to us in the classroom.

                  It is intended. But if at the same time they shoot at the sapper, then it's still worth hurrying.
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 23 September 2019 07: 29
      +3
      Why do you think Margelov stood up for the dropout with crews?
      1. Corn
        Corn 23 September 2019 08: 35
        +3
        Vasily Flippovich lived in a different era of the romance of large landings, when the landing of equipment with the crew reduced the deployment time by several times, and then it was really justified, moreover, no one knew that even decades later the security problem of multi-dome systems did not will decide.
      2. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 08: 48
        +2
        Margelov was impressed by the Kanevsky landing, when, due to inconsistency of actions and weather, the landing was scattered in different directions, heavy weapons were not landing, and there was no air cover for the landing zone at all. Therefore, Margelov was an adherent of the landing assault along with all the weapons.
      3. Prisoner
        Prisoner 23 September 2019 17: 21
        +1
        Life time on the battlefield at the DSh unit is not unlimited and it is not rational to lose it in search of your box. The group might simply not have time to complete the task. Apparently so. hi
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 23 September 2019 06: 38
    +7
    Evil 55
    ... well, even without a crew ..
    Landing with the crew is extremely rare after the first test landing in 1973. No one needs extra risk, therefore this method is left for real combat operations.
    Of course, the commission will deal with the incident, but I just want to say: "More thoroughly, more thoroughly, it is necessary to pack the parachutes and conduct a check before landing."
  6. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 23 September 2019 06: 45
    -1
    Spit on the iron!
    1. Prisoner
      Prisoner 23 September 2019 17: 24
      0
      Are you seriously? And the fact that this iron is sometimes the key to further life is nothing? If you can spit like that, then you are just a minion of fate. hi
  7. Pecheneg
    Pecheneg 23 September 2019 06: 45
    +6
    I remember not so long ago they laughed at the mattresses when they had several crashes when they landed. It turns out this is possible in all armies.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
        Uncle Vanya Susanin 23 September 2019 08: 03
        +5
        Man, get out of the gloom, nothing falls in the Vlasov army, due to the lack of equipment in it, as well as due to the absence of the Vlasov army itself in objective reality!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Incvizitor
          Incvizitor 23 September 2019 21: 49
          0
          due to the absence of the Vlasov army itself in objective reality
          In ward number 6 (more precisely, number 404) they have Napoleon.
    2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Uncle Vanya Susanin 23 September 2019 07: 56
      +1
      The Americans themselves laughed at the camera over this, why then should we not?
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. Prisoner
      Prisoner 23 September 2019 17: 33
      0
      It’s impossible here, we don’t have any hammers. 3,5 tons of Hammer and 8,2 tons of BMD-2. Do not compare God's gift with fried eggs. Pins with their cars were given. Something went wrong with us. Ours are cooler. Fershteen? Anestent? Namifahmam? hi
  8. Alex 2016
    Alex 2016 23 September 2019 06: 50
    +4
    Violation of the requirements for the landing of equipment, dropping the BMD-2 at a wind speed of 15 m / s, although the permissible limit for such operations is 8 m / s .. Safety precautions were neglected, for the sake of "showing off". And that's pretty bad. Cheap window dressing never led to any good. Who is interested in the details of the requirements for the landing of personnel, military equipment and cargo from the Il-76 aircraft, a web to help!
    1. Alex013
      Alex013 23 September 2019 08: 32
      0
      Precisely noticed! Five more guys broke there because of the wind.
  9. The comment was deleted.
    1. DEDPIHTO
      DEDPIHTO 23 September 2019 07: 44
      -6
      Hmm! And when the American technology fell, everyone on "VO" giggled, what do you say now?
      The artists will not say anything clever and will not admit that they giggled, will quietly minus and troll with empty blah blah blah.
      .
    2. Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Uncle Vanya Susanin 23 September 2019 08: 06
      0
      Let’s say that the Americans themselves were laughing at it like horses, why shouldn’t we laugh at it then ???
    3. lukewarm
      lukewarm 23 September 2019 09: 38
      +5
      Giggling stupidly is not a sign of intelligence. Equally unclear is your position: "Aha !!! And I said !!!" What, did you have to cry because of the humviks? Yes, they are enemies, these handsome ones of yours. This is the attitude towards them. If not, you will find understanding on another site.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. lukewarm
          lukewarm 23 September 2019 09: 43
          +4
          Oh, everything, everything .... I understand the level of discussion and with whom I am dealing. It is pointless to discuss something further ... If anything, then the United States also "loves" the whole world and they unleashed more wars than the SSR-RF. But I’m not for you anymore. So, into the air. Forgive.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. carstorm 11
          carstorm 11 23 September 2019 09: 56
          +4
          enemies? potential and main ones were and remain. to be friends with you /))) but somehow I personally don’t have a desire to be friends with lizuns) you and the song will not limit you in love to your elders. for what reason should we repeat after you?) to rattle with a weapon? Well, compare the number of NATO exercises around the world and I’ll notice ours at home. we're home. I don’t get it, we are doing this at home. when we need and when. as planned. so calm down already for you are funny.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. carstorm 11
              carstorm 11 23 September 2019 12: 07
              +1
              but is it possible without these ridiculous cliches that affect only the sick?) it is ridiculous to stupid when all sorts of clowns teach us how to live that don’t even know what is happening in the world?)))) all these cranberries you read in front of a mirror for the night you might even frighten and stop crawl onto hostile sites of our country so you will discuss yours?))) I understand that I can’t convince the next daughter of the officer, but those who respect at least laugh at the next trololo?))) are you going to argue with anyone here?))) you generally throw the election dregs))) funny girls)
  10. rocket757
    rocket757 23 September 2019 07: 00
    +4
    Reliability + sloppiness !!! Let the crew drop off separately, so it will be more reliable.
    And so, the Humvee flopped, bmdshki, too, and others typed !!! there is no protection against everything, everything .....
    By the way, now we don’t have to laugh at a similar kikoz .... it happens!
    1. bald
      bald 23 September 2019 07: 21
      +2
      Hello Victor. True, you say - at least when shooting at the sounds, no one was neighing, what a laugh in FIG.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 23 September 2019 08: 44
        +3
        Hi Vladimir soldier
        We don’t hear rzhach, because we don’t climb on those sites of theirs where it is precisely distributed! This is mutual, nothing can be changed here.
        There are no victims, so let them.
  11. Thrifty
    Thrifty 23 September 2019 07: 04
    0
    I would oblige the gentlemen from the press service to restore the equipment as soon as possible, and, for my own money, to stop lying, calling the destroyed equipment "damaged"! And, thank God, no one was sitting in the cars at the time of landing. ..
    1. Constructor68
      Constructor68 23 September 2019 07: 43
      +6
      I would oblige the gentlemen from the press service to restore the equipment as soon as possible, and, for my own money, to stop lying, calling the destroyed equipment "damaged"! And, thank God, no one was sitting in the cars at the time of landing. ..

      They write in the patterns of the military, not the patterns of screamers in the military. In the newsletters of the Ministry of Defense of any country, lost equipment in peacetime is always written as damaged, not destroyed. Unlike fighting in wartime. Although the Americans and wartime more often point to "damage", even if the burned-out tank later served only as a source of spare parts.
    2. bessmertniy
      bessmertniy 23 September 2019 08: 06
      -1
      It is impossible to name the mass of iron, remaining equal before and after the fall, destroyed. But such a technique cannot be called damaged. Probably, you can apply such a definition as a technique that has turned into a state of scrap. what
      1. ccsr
        ccsr 26 September 2019 18: 48
        -4
        Quote: bessmertniy
        It is impossible to name the mass of iron, remaining equal before and after the fall, destroyed. But such a technique cannot be called damaged. Probably, you can apply such a definition as a technique that has turned into a state of scrap.

        The answer to what technique after this emergency can only be considered by specialists after an inspection. But this process is not immediate, so you should not pay attention to the statement of the press service, which is done immediately upon the incident and they are intended for the media.
    3. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 23 September 2019 09: 17
      0
      in principle, they are not required to report anything to you. say thank you for at least saying something. without examination and completion of investigative actions and analysis, they told you everything they could. to make conclusions about the serviceability or maintainability of the equipment does not seem to be the responsibility of the press.
  12. Graz
    Graz 23 September 2019 07: 07
    +3
    2 of the case on the 1 throw, it’s not a fig, it’s not a malfunction of parachute systems, it’s clearly a human factor, they didn’t complete it somewhere, didn’t reconnect it.
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 23 September 2019 12: 45
      +2
      Quote: Graz
      2 of the case on the 1 throw, it’s not a fig, it’s not a malfunction of parachute systems, it’s clearly a human factor, they didn’t complete it somewhere, didn’t reconnect it.

      In a report on the drop on the Zvezda TV channel, it was said that 1500 paratroopers and 200 units were parachuted. equipment, it turns out 5 people broken during the landing = 0,333% of the total, 2 units of broken equipment = 1% of the total. Considering that, according to the TV channel, such a number of people and equipment have not been simultaneously dropped since the exercises "West -81 "ie 38 years, a very modest result of losses, which in turn indicates the level of training of the Airborne Forces and the Air Force. the drop was made from 80 Il-76 VTA aircraft that took off from 5 airfields from Ivanovo to Chebenki in the Orenburg region. and the interval between the planes above the drop site was, according to the correspondent, 30 seconds.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 26 September 2019 18: 49
      -3
      Quote: Graz
      2 cases on 1 throw, this is not a fig, not a malfunction of parachute systems, obviously a human factor,

      I completely agree, so you have to dig to the full depth in order to understand the reason for what happened.
      1. NN52
        NN52 26 September 2019 20: 54
        -2
        Rzhu ..))) you as a signalman, what will you dig to the full depth?
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 27 September 2019 12: 03
          -2
          Quote: NN52
          you as a signalman, what will you dig to the full depth?

          Not what, but what to dig - the chairman of the commission will determine for everyone. It is immediately clear that you were not very involved in the "debriefing" when it concerned technology and weapons, which is why you are asking a stupid question.
      2. Russia
        Russia 26 September 2019 22: 23
        +1
        Brains must be included. If you yourself, then shovel in your hands and looking so as not to dig into the depthslaughing Cool fellow, well, just like my grandson in the sandbox. smile
        1. ccsr
          ccsr 27 September 2019 12: 10
          -4
          Quote: Rusland
          Cool fellow, well, just like my grandson in the sandbox.

          So play with him, since you bring joy to him with your sand.
  13. tarabar
    tarabar 23 September 2019 07: 07
    +4
    Well, for this, exercises are being held to eliminate such situations in the future. The fact that two cars crashed at once is sad, of course, but it suggests that the problem is systemic and competent people should sort it out and find the cause of the failure. And the main thing here is of course not to find and punish, but to figure out and eliminate the causes of the malfunction. No hysteria, we are working according to plan.
    1. evgen1221
      evgen1221 23 September 2019 07: 35
      +1
      At the expense of a system problem with parachutes, here I disagree with you, For amers, as an example of their mass bombardment by field hammers, this is a system problem (there was dofiga at a time), We are more likely to have discarded individual parts in the platform or rush when equipped, which if lost 2 cars out of the total mass are uncritical and within the limits of statistical error. Here if they with the crews are screwed up, then yes it is necessary to plant all those involved and if without it it is unpleasant but not scary.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
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  14. evgen1221
    evgen1221 23 September 2019 07: 29
    +1
    So it seems that it doesn’t happen in the army — they announced a landing with crews, and several, including those who crashed, were thrown off without a crew, something does not allow the wave to go.
  15. 3vs
    3vs 23 September 2019 07: 34
    +2
    Thank God that without a crew!
  16. yuliatreb
    yuliatreb 23 September 2019 07: 39
    -1
    Now in the Western media there will be a "rzhaka" about this and throwing weapons with a return function will be remembered to us. And for some reason, no one said that "Only those who do nothing are insured against failures" when a similar situation occurred at NATO exercises in Germany. Why do we need to learn from the mistakes of others, we ourselves have to fill our own cones.
  17. Avior
    Avior 23 September 2019 07: 59
    -2
    It is unlikely, of course, that the crew was inside, but actually landing with the crew is being presented as a new achievement.
    Last year’s video from the Star I brought above.
    There were other cases of landing with the crew
    “Why?” The officer asks. “I’ll say this: if you have to think, why drop people in equipment, and then why do we need the Airborne Forces? This is the only branch of the military that is able to perform any assigned tasks in the shortest possible time, thanks to its mobility and wings in For this purpose, the landing force must be ready to carry out the landing inside the equipment. "


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5420270/amp

    But after such cases, there is reason to think if the landing with the crew inside is a good idea?
    1. Megamarcel
      Megamarcel 23 September 2019 13: 53
      +1
      New achievement? The son of General Margelov was the first to land in this way.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 27 September 2019 12: 28
      -2
      Quote: Avior
      But after such cases, there is reason to think if the landing with the crew inside is a good idea?

      Landing equipment with a crew should be strictly prohibited, and this should be spelled out in all manuals on PDS - this is the only way to approach this issue. Some local "specialists" apparently do not want to think that even a small river or a dam three or four meters deep, which turned out to be at the landing site, when equipment with personnel gets into it, gives them little chances to escape if they are covered by a dome even during exercise time.
  18. Rusfaner
    Rusfaner 23 September 2019 08: 00
    +2
    Thank God there were no people inside! In a combat situation, the crews will be in their places - how will they feel from the lack of confidence in the "rags".
    I would like to understand and make the right conclusions ...
  19. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 23 September 2019 08: 42
    -2
    I've always been critical of the idea of ​​throwing someone out of the plane.
  20. Corn
    Corn 23 September 2019 08: 43
    -1
    Failures of multi-dome systems are not something out of the ordinary, so they are rarely used for landing with the crew.
  21. Piramidon
    Piramidon 23 September 2019 09: 08
    -1
    As a result of a malfunction of parachute systems in a collision with the ground, both cars were damaged.

    The equipment was destroyed. Another would say - "very minor damage"
    1. Roma 1977
      Roma 1977 23 September 2019 09: 40
      0
      There is some good news. Two donors appeared for the remaining equipment!
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 23 September 2019 10: 01
      +1
      , and how should the press speak? only what is in their competence. You can visually announce the cause of damage and maintainability? Why should a journalism graduate do this? based on what? conclusions of the commission already voiced? no. I would write the same thing and say. I literally have no desire to answer for personal conclusions when they ask me on the basis of what I did them.
  22. Van 16
    Van 16 23 September 2019 09: 25
    0
    There is, of course, nothing good in this. Two cars are serious, it really looks like something systemic, in simple terms - it looks like a mess. The only right thing now is to understand the reasons, to sort it out normally, without the usual appointment of the extreme ones, to draw conclusions so that this does not happen anymore. So to say "for non-repetition and prevention from future"
  23. Roma 1977
    Roma 1977 23 September 2019 09: 39
    +2
    The usefulness of the option "parachute landing of armored vehicles" is questionable. Has anyone used this in real combat, and if so, what are the results?
    1. Alex_You
      Alex_You 23 September 2019 09: 48
      +1
      In modern realities, the very landing of infantry from an airplane is in doubt.
      1. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 23 September 2019 11: 43
        +1
        That is, the landing in Northern Iraq in 2003 and the opening of a second front against Saddam are in doubt?
  24. Alex_You
    Alex_You 23 September 2019 09: 45
    -1
    However, it was noted that they will be used to drop military equipment with the crew.

    I think after this incident, the crew can’t drive into the equipment and at gunpoint.
    1. Yngvar
      Yngvar 23 September 2019 11: 22
      +4
      Do you see, dear, sometimes in a "good fight" it becomes "do not care" what will happen to you personally, there is a task and it must be completed - it motivates your actions ... But to understand this, you need to feel it! It gets scary then ..
  25. ultra
    ultra 23 September 2019 10: 17
    -1
    Quote: DEPHIHTO
    The artists will not say anything clever and will not admit that they giggled, will quietly minus and troll with empty blah blah blah.

    From the very first post you write nonsense under this topic and do not stop. Therefore, personally, I personally slapped you for all posts.
  26. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 23 September 2019 10: 35
    0
    And they laughed at the Americans. As always, the money was stolen and at the exit zilch ....
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. Archivist Vasya
    Archivist Vasya 23 September 2019 11: 44
    0
    So we crashed softly, that a hammer, that a paper machine - on the earth all one after such a flight. It's good that they are empty.
    PS Ministry of Emergency Situations warns: In the area of ​​the exercise, precipitation in the form of PM is possible ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 23 September 2019 12: 14
      0
      I wonder when our tanks will begin to land.
  29. Vadim237
    Vadim237 23 September 2019 12: 18
    +1
    Someone will insert such a svizdona for the preparation of the landing of the aircraft - until the end of the days these MO cars will pay.
  30. Old26
    Old26 23 September 2019 12: 25
    +5
    Well, that without a crew. And BMD ... Well, iron, make a new one. The main thing is that people have not suffered ...

    Quote: DEPHIHTO
    I don’t have any facts, there is only distrust in lying to the MO .. the BMD who crashed into the trash were called, they were injured, Do you have any facts ...?

    Well, isn't it? Damage "beyond repair and repair" was received. It is as it happens with the death of people - "received injuries incompatible with life." Turnover of speech, no more. They won't say in the message that "two cars crashed into trash" ...
    1. Archivist Vasya
      Archivist Vasya 23 September 2019 16: 12
      0
      Better so "two cars crashed"! If you submit news in the morning, it will rather lead you to think about scrambled eggs for breakfast than about an unpleasant incident))
  31. parkello
    parkello 23 September 2019 13: 02
    -1
    Well, what to do, the old equipment must be discarded request but how can you write it off if she’s still in the factory grease? yes Correctly, push it onto the system, at the same time update the domes at home. quite grammatically in my opinion. when it is necessary to update the entire unit, if not the division, and the authorities don’t see the reasons for the purchase of new systems at point blank range and under a microscope ... can you not snitch him at the snout? angry they say that they understand and see everything and you will understand. can it be seen that the equipment was not fastened by carbines to the plane? where are the slings? where are the exhaust domes? stab stab tyk, there are 9 domes on each side ... hi beha fell in free fall ... then thrown out. deliberately. all 8-9 domes cannot refuse. this is not D-5 ... oak like my door. he could refuse yes, there were cases, but there is one dome, but here 9 .. and that after the stabilization was opened, it did not open into a stone or there was not enough traction to pull the slings out of the gases. in short they wrote off ... they will ascribe negligence, find a "terpila" and load it to the very top of my head ... I also burned about two or three dozen cartridges in the army, threw them into the fire, wrote off ... dangerous cartridges that often did not burn out or with a delay ignited .. well, common practice. I was a soldier and burned about 100 rounds of ammunition, was written off from service pouches and filled with fresh cartridges. but here if the head of the unit, then probably let the behi into the scrap for a reason. either morally outdated. or too expensive and it's time to update the fleet of armored vehicles. Thank God, people did not suffer. And the reason for the failure of the system can only be the weather condition, cold air. Otherwise, the systems have been tested for a long time and the only thing they could never cope with is nature. I always smashed ships and any equipment on land and at sea. But it is noticeable in the video. That the behu was simply thrown off and it flies in free fall, not even under stabilization ... like a cobblestone from a cliff. as in an anecdote about an ant, where is the elephant. What kind of elephant? this is my sandwich ...
    1. Romanenko
      Romanenko 23 September 2019 14: 13
      +1
      As for the free fall, you are probably wrong. When landing the machine several systems are triggered sequentially, in this case the stabilizing dome was opened regularly, which, according to the scheme, was supposed to activate the system for disassembling the cargo domes, previously the squibs did this, which I don’t know now.
      But since it didn’t go further than the stabilizing one, and its work is clearly visible, the failure is obvious, now we need to find its cause, that is, it is a technical failure, or a human factor.
      1. parkello
        parkello 23 September 2019 20: 40
        0
        on a multi-dome pyro cartridge system .. the tobish charge is high ... I don’t do it. they simply didn’t banally fasten the carabiners to the cables, or because of negligence, quickness. or someone intentionally started to fasten them. fun for the sake ... thank God without sacrifices.
    2. ccsr
      ccsr 26 September 2019 14: 30
      -1
      Quote: parkello
      and here, if the chief of the unit, it must have gone into the scrap for no reason. either morally obsolete. or too expensive and time to update the fleet of armored vehicles.

      If you knew what kind of nonsense you are talking about, but keep in mind at least the fact that the regiment commander is not called the "unit chief".
  32. Megamarcel
    Megamarcel 23 September 2019 13: 49
    +3
    But how much bravado was when you broke your MPV ... And then there won.
  33. Romanenko
    Romanenko 23 September 2019 14: 06
    0
    Strongly broken up cars in the trash.
    I saw once, back in 1980, a "one" in which the tower sat down to the waist in the top sheet, but then the powder engine on the PRS system did not work, and here, along the way, the pyro cartridges did not work, they did not open the domes, the extractor worked fine, and everything else not hello
  34. Disorder
    Disorder 23 September 2019 14: 25
    0
    Quote: DEPHIHTO
    I don’t have any facts, there is only distrust in lying to the MO .. the BMD who crashed into the trash were called, they were injured, Do you have any facts ...?

    Quote: Lyapis
    MO, let’s say right-they crashed soft-boiled

    "In the trash", "soft-boiled", ..... So you can write in the comments, but not in the official documents.
    wassat Even if something was beaten off to you "soft-boiled", it will be written - "bruised scrotum."
  35. ASASHOKA
    ASASHOKA 23 September 2019 14: 37
    0
    ... The reasons for the failure of the parachute systems in the case of two armored vehicles and the loss of these armored vehicles finds out a special commission. The human factor is not excluded.

    Most likely - the human factor ... But we will see, of course ...
  36. Catfish
    Catfish 23 September 2019 17: 31
    +1
    If really without people, then thank God. But here are two cars in a blot for one dump, this is already overkill, there aren’t any pets here.
    Someone here recently was dying with laughter, literally tearing their stomachs over a similar incident among NATO members, how are they feeling now? We all walk under God and do not forget about it, otherwise you can "crack" like that ... soldier
  37. panzerfaust
    panzerfaust 23 September 2019 18: 46
    0
    Prapora pass on metal, sober :) In general, who collected the parachutes? Submit them here !!! Here let them pay! Now the Americans are laughing at us ...
  38. ljoha_d
    ljoha_d 23 September 2019 19: 55
    0
    Well, we again laughed at the Americans, when their hummers fell to the ground, which is now not funny.
  39. kutuz
    kutuz 23 September 2019 22: 50
    0
    It seems to me alone that a machine weighing 13 tons. falling from such a height was supposed to dig into the ground well, at least partially?
  40. Lieutenant colonel
    Lieutenant colonel 24 September 2019 04: 05
    0
    Damn - sorry for the car ....
  41. Kelwin
    Kelwin 24 September 2019 09: 12
    0
    Why would these headliners be folded and turned over for such headlines, I almost hugged them - they were talking about new systems and landing with a crew, I immediately thought about the bad. It was hard to think a little with your head and write "Two BMDs crashed without crews ...", or there is a draft between the ears ...
  42. Amatar
    Amatar 24 September 2019 15: 34
    +1
    Ha ha ha Do you remember how NATO and I laughed when they threw off the hammers without parachutes? Now you need to laugh twice as loud as not to be accused of double standards.