Why Russian aerospace forces suffer losses

It is ordered to fly - fly

We somehow quickly got used to the fact that the profession of a military pilot became again one of the most dangerous in the army. We are accustomed to the fact that reports of flight accidents and air crashes arrive on the news feeds with alarming frequency. But the worst thing is that we are used to the fact that military pilots are dying. Even standard explanations like the “human factor” or “technical malfunction” are used to. I don’t want to write about “adverse weather conditions” as a universal cause of accidents during landing.

He who does not fly does not fall. This axiom in the military aviation any grasshopper knows. Only here the speed in aviation has changed. The technique has changed. And for many, a fall happens only once in a lifetime. First and last time. A military aviation pilot must be trained and able to make decisions and act professionally in any situation. The army stood and stands on the execution of the order. It is ordered to fly - fly. In any weather. You still knew in the school that it would be so that you would be a military pilot. In the same way as ground service specialists.

Flight simulators

Today, a completely predictable process of the outflow of young pilots into civil aviation is taking place in Russian aviation. Remuneration, working conditions, domestic problems and so on. push good pilots to leave military aviation. Add to this the natural process of care for age and health. Bottom line: the shortage in military aviation is huge today. This is said at all levels. However, they quickly calm down. In the United States and other armies, the situation is no better. Pilots are not enough everywhere. It is military pilots.

The training of young pilots, according to current pilots and aviation veterans, is awful. If in the USSR more than 20 military schools were involved in the training of military aviation pilots, today only one was enough for this: the Krasnodar aviation name Serov. Cadets “fly” more on simulators than in real conditions. The effectiveness of such training is quite low. But more with the existing material base is difficult to implement. The akh condition of the L-39 and Yak-130 aircraft has been written many times.

Some plane crashes like the clash of two Su-34 front-line bombers in the Far East on the 18 of January 2019 of the year with the loss of two planes and in fact the miraculous rescue of the third or the collision of two Su-34 in the Lipetsk region (6 of September 2019) reveal another problem for our aviation. Weak pilot training in schools continues in units. The regiment command was forced to "grow combat pilots" in accelerated mode. Otherwise, you can get a "cap" from the higher authorities.

In parts there is a mass production of pilots of the 3 class, and sometimes the 2 class. At the same time, the flight time for these pilots is 300-400 hours. For reports and performance, this is great. A part in the forefront, in the personal affairs of the commanders, thanks appear from the commander, young pilots become "truly combat pilots." But somehow this beautiful picture does not fit with the statement of one very respected general, former commander of the Air Force, Army General Pyotr Stepanovich Deinekin:

“At present, the Russian Aerospace Forces does not have a group, the size of which would allow for large-scale military operations. Not enough combat crew. ”

Why was it possible such egregious incidents as a collision of airplanes when performing quite simple maneuvers? Again, according to experienced pilots, this is possible only in one case: when the pilot considers himself an ace, able to perform any action. The very pilot of the 2-3 class is triggered. That in conditions when the frequency of flights has increased significantly, it is always fraught with air accidents and tragedies.

We are waiting for new heroes ...

By the way, what was mentioned above fully applies to terrestrial services. Remember the disaster from Tu-22М3 near Murmansk, at the airport "Deer". The strategic bomber had to land in low visibility conditions. It is clear that all-weather aviation does not exist in principle. A military pilot flies always. And ensures the safety of takeoff and landing ground personnel. So he didn’t work on “Deer”. Additional lighting for the landing strip was not provided. The pilot simply, given the snow charges that hit the cockpit, did not see the strip! And this is also the result of accelerated training of specialists ...

But that is not all. This is just the tail of a fish that starts to smell. There is a problem with the “head”. Today we are in the videoconferencing for the first time in stories our army really see what he said cadets of combined arms schools in the first year. The combined arms commander is obliged to manage all types and arms of service that are assigned to him for the performance of a combat mission. The commander-in-chief of the videoconferencing today is the combined-arms general Sergey Surovikin! Young, having experience in commanding not only the okrug, but also a grouping of Russian troops in Syria, experience in staff work at the level of the Main Operations Directorate of the General Staff, Hero of the Russian Federation. A man of truly outstanding commanding talent. Just what side is the graduate of the Omsk Combined Arms School associated with the VKS?

We will not discuss behind-the-scenes games at the highest levels of power today. Who prepares whom and where, is not so important. More importantly, as the operation in Syria has shown, one of the most important types of troops in the Russian armed forces is experiencing many problems today that need to be solved as soon as possible. And to solve these problems, first of all, the VKS commander is obliged. To do this, he has all the forces and means, has the necessary specialists and capabilities. Ultimately, Colonel General Surovikin has the authority of a military general.

In the meantime, alas, we see switchmen who are to blame for all the troubles of our aviation. Some pay for it with their own lives, others with freedom, others with shoulder straps. And the system lives on. Waiting for new victims and new heroes who prevented ...

Comments

[bober1982]

The article is simply ridiculous, the author is an amateur, has a very superficial understanding of combat aircraft, why comment here?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

The article is simply ridiculous, the author is an amateur, has a very superficial understanding of combat aircraft, why comment here?

Here I fundamentally disagree with you.

The training of young pilots, according to current pilots and aviation veterans, is awful.

Akhova training of young pilots, this is only half. And now the second half:
There were also losses in the USSR Air Force, but they were an order of magnitude smaller, even as a percentage of the Russian Air Force.
I do not know the exact number of squadrons and regiments of the USSR Air Force, as well as the number of aircraft operated, in any given period of time (after the Second World War). But there were much more than the modern Russian Air Force.
And now every plane or helicopter supplied to the troops is presented as a national holiday. And it is marked by "covering the glade" in the Kremlin, by distributing orders and awards. The plane is consecrated by the priests and the "Kiselevs" talk about this "unparalleled in the world" event on all Sunday news programs.
Although in fact it is an ordinary airplane or helicopter made at the factory and transferred to the army. This is not the landing of Russian astronauts on Mercury. In the USSR, airplanes were made in thousands, and no one exalted it to heaven. This was the usual work of aircraft factories.
Now, in the Russian Air Force, airplanes and helicopters are a PIECE product !!!
All of them are on a "special" account. That's why every loss of an aircraft is like ... I don't even know what to compare with!

[bober1982]

Here is what you write, it is simply unbelievable, namely:

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

There were also losses in the USSR Air Force, but they were an order of magnitude smaller, even as a percentage of the Russian Air Force.

Do you even understand what you are reporting?
The annual losses of the Soviet Air Force were approximately 100 (one hundred) units, this is not counting the combat losses.

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

I do not know the exact number of squadrons and regiments of the USSR Air Force, as well as the number of aircraft operated, in any given period of time (after the Second World War). But there were much more than the modern Russian Air Force.

Well, what can we talk about here?
At your leisure, you will see the statistics of aviation accidents and disasters in the USSR, your hair will stand on end.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

At your leisure, you will see the statistics of aviation accidents and disasters in the USSR, your hair will stand on end.

I explain again.
Airplanes also fought in the USSR, but in percentage terms, much less, because:
1. There were many more planes and helicopters than now in Russia. Take only small aircraft. Is it clear now?
2. The average flying hours of a military pilot in the USSR was much larger than now in the Russian Air Force.
Or will you argue here too?
The Union had many planes and helicopters that flew a lot. Naturally there were disasters.
Now there are few aircraft, few fly, small aircraft destroyed as a class. Pilots fly a little. GVF is not taken into account. And all the same, plane crashes happen.
Further explain too, or do you understand?

[bober1982]

You have some kind of unrelated and very confusing set of words and phrases, did not understand anything.

[Vladimir16]

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

I explain again.

You do not do this thing.
It’s not worth explaining if you yourself don’t understand anything.

An order of magnitude is ten times less.

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

There were also losses in the USSR Air Force, but they were an order of magnitude smaller, even as a percentage of the Russian Air Force.

For such crap incoherent to you at the lesson, mathematicians at school would solder a stake.
And here you are trying to explain something.

[Mestny]

Nothing, at meetings and on the Internet this comes in. Even complicated.
He just made a little mistake on the site.

[Senya Sem]

at rallies and on the Internet this comes in.

I also thought about it, especially where Navalny's shkolot is going. In general, it is very funny to watch how a person talks about what he is a complete zero in. He would also cite the films "Crew" as an example of professionalism.)))

[gurzuf]

No need to explain on your fingers, try to use numbers, otherwise "you would be soldered a number in a math lesson at school. And you are trying to explain something here."

[Ehanatone]

"You have some kind of unrelated and very confusing set of words and phrases, I don't understand anything."
Well, the fact that there is a shortage of pilots is something you don’t mind.
Here in the VO there was a first-person story, where the former pilot, for several reasons, left the Air Force, and then decided to return, he was refused.
With the medical board, age everything is in order - so not everything is okay in the Danish kingdom ...

[Minato2020]

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
There were losses in the USSR Air Force, but they were an order of magnitude smaller, even as a percentage of the Russian Air Force ...

To paraphrase this statement a little
- In quantitative terms, aircraft losses in the USSR are large (approximately 100 aircraft per year),
and in the Russian Federation, losses are small - approximately 8 aircraft per year.
- In percentage terms, the losses of aircraft in the USSR are small.
Losses in the Russian Federation are 10 times greater than in the USSR.

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
Now, in the Russian Air Force, airplanes and helicopters are a PIECE product !!!
All of them are on a "special" account. That's why every loss of an aircraft is like ... I don't even know what to compare with!

[Alexey Z]

Now there are few aircraft, few fly, small aircraft destroyed as a class. Pilots fly a little. GVF do not take into account.

Do you have a small one for the Air Force (VKS)?

[certero]

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

The average flying hours of a military pilot in the USSR were much larger than now in the Russian Air Force.

The numbers say different.

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

The USSR also fought planes, but in percentage terms it is much less, because:

I am sure you will share statistics on flight accidents in the USSR and in Russia. Without it, your words are just shaking air

[Ka-52]

Akhova training of young pilots, this is only half. And now the second half:

I’m interested in what kind of VVAUL did you finish to make such a statement

There were also losses in the USSR Air Force, but they were an order of magnitude smaller, even as a percentage of the Russian Air Force.

saying from discharge with a finger to the sky.

[let_nab]

This olesha graduated, and at best not even cotton wool, but a culinary college ....

[Pavlov Sergey Alexandrovich]

It hurts a lot to exaggerate distort. No need to be such a pessimist. Speaking of the quantity, a modern aircraft is not inferior to a comic ship in complexity of the device and the cost of one unit is several times higher than the price of, say, post-war aircraft up to 80 years.

[EvilLion]

Yes, yes, how many of the same Su-35С would have been defeated with a similar percentage of losses.

And now every plane or helicopter delivered to the troops is presented as a public holiday.

Now the planes are bought in batches of several dozen pieces, which, with the number of air forces of likely opponents in 150-200 combat aircraft, or even less, is quite adequate. The fact that bmpd reports on each distilled small batch, well, this is what they specifically do for those who do not believe that we build aircraft at all.

At the same time, the service life of the aircraft doubled at least, and accident rate by the hours of flight fell at least three times.

[210ox]

You are not right about the number of potential air forces of the enemy. In NATO (and this is clearly the enemy), how many combat aircraft?

[EvilLion]

German Air Force: 143 typhoons have been ordered, and the Germans have already decided to write off the early blocks without the possibility of attacking ground targets to save money. There were 88 old "tornadoes", now, most likely, already less, if all were not written off.

The air forces of Small Britain and France are of the same order. The rest of the country is from much smaller to vanishingly small quantities. I ask the United States not to attract, even without a nuclear war, they will not be able to drag all their aircraft to Europe.

Given the abundance of all kinds of C-300, C-400 and other smaller complexes, but causing no less pride in the country, even the theoretical possibility of the whole of Europe to fight with us in the air is a definite one. doubt.

[Kronos]

Have these complexes been tested in a real battle against aircraft?

[EvilLion]

The "shell" was tested, the wreckage of the drones had nowhere to go.

[Kronos]

I wrote aviation, that is, aircraft first of all, not drones

[Dart2027]

Quote: Kronos

I wrote aviation i.e. planes

Do you want to declare war on NATO in order to do this?

[aiden]

Mig shot down in Libya recently from the shell

[Mobi Dick]

Do you want to say anything about the wreckage of the "Shells" themselves?
Those who destroyed the Israeli Air Force with impunity.

[syndicalist]

Well, of course. They tested it in Syria. The Israeli Air Force has no difficulty in conducting its operations. But the "Syrian" aviation has a lot of problems from these air defense systems, even fatal ones.

[vic02]

Have you forgotten that Russia has territory? And also, that Russia has a direct border with the United States, and besides, China is far from an ally that can be fully trusted. So feel free to add to the calculation of the US Air Force in Alaska, from bases in Japan, in the same Europe and aircraft carriers, and your good picture immediately crumbles to dust.
For some reason, you take into account that the United States will have difficulties with the transfer of aviation to Europe, but modestly forgot that Russia will have exactly the same difficulties with the transfer of aviation from Siberia or the Far East.
For information, in France there is 1 fighter jet in 4,7 thousand km2 of territory, in Germany - 2,8 thousand, in Britain - 1,5 thousand, in Russia - 37 thousand. And even in the hardest years 1941-1943 Far East had to hold an entire army.

[EvilLion]

Russia can easily transfer from the Far East. No, maybe you are going to fight with everyone all the time, including China, well then I can once again repeat the joke about Private Smith, who will have nowhere to take so many cartridges for a rifle to shoot hundreds of enemy soldiers.

[Bad thing]

Quote: EvilLion

Russia can easily transfer from the Far East. No, maybe you are going to fight all at once

Where is the guarantee that the "left unattended" will not want to profit.

[Archon]

Calculations by area are absurd. It is necessary either to take into account the area specifically residential or the length of state borders. Otherwise, it turns out that for every tundra swamp, a fighter is needed.
If we take into account the area from the calculation of the fighter at 2 t. Km ^ 2, it turns out that you need 8500 fighters. Is such a number really necessary?

Currently, the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) have more than 1,8 thousands of aircraft, TASS reports.
The Agency, citing open sources and its own files, counted more than 800 fighters from the Russian military (Su-27, Su-30, Su-33, Su-35, MiG-29, MiG-31 and their modifications), the order of 200 attack aircraft (Su-34, Su-24M and their modifications), more than 200 attack aircraft (Su-25), about 150 training aircraft (Yak-130 and others), about 70 strategic bombers (Tu-95 and Tu-160) and more than 40 long-range bombers Tu-22M3.
Also in military aviation there are approximately 400 military transport aircraft and Il-78 refueling aircraft and more than 20 A-50 and A-50У early warning systems.

Aviation today is very expensive and is unlikely to be used in large-scale battles, rather in limited operations and local clashes. And more important is not the number of aircraft, but the number of new aircraft, working aircraft and their effectiveness. And will the country be able to feed these planes?

[vic02]

Calculations by area are absurd. It is necessary either to take into account the area specifically residential or the length of state borders

It was just a case in point, the area is connected with the length of the borders (at school they pass), and if we talk about borders, then here things look exactly the same for Russia. And are you just going to defend the borders? Have you forgotten about industrial centers, energy, transport routes? But the very recent successful attack on oil factories from Saudi Arabia (which, incidentally, are far from the border and in the desert, and not in populated areas) did not come up with a thought? Do you know about the need for a second-tier war and reserves?

[Archon]

You are going in the right direction. And now it’s worth recounting exactly the area where the objects you specified are located and counting the number of aircraft for this area.
In WWII, we had three strategic echelons, do you think you need so much now?

[vic02]

For example, only a local conflict is considered, and there are already about a hundred aircraft from each side and the use of reserves. "Russian-Turkish war in the air: scenarios of battles and losses", K. Sivkov. https://army-news.ru/2016/02/russko-tureckaya-vojna-v-vozduxe-scenarii-boev-i-poter/

[Oleg Zorin]

No need to invoke the possibilities of Europe. They are none. And the probable opponent is one, one and only. And the United States will be able to drag the required number of aircraft to the theater. Even in conditions of UC they can.

[Pushkar]

Quote: EvilLion

with the number of likely air forces of 150-200 combat aircraft, or even less

The United States Air Force alone: ​​300 UAVs + small UAVs about 1000, strategic bombers -150, helicopters - 200, 1476 fighters and bombers, electronic warfare aircraft, early warning aircraft, reconnaissance, patrol -315, transport - 737 refueling aircraft - 520 pcs. There is also naval aviation (aircraft carriers), aviation of the ground forces. And there are also European and Asian members of NATO. So, first delve into the question, and then comment.

[EvilLion]

Once again, are you having a country with a population of 140 million going to fight with the states with a total population of one billion? Believe me, even the USSR could not have done it. US aviation is scattered around the world, collecting even half in Europe will mean for the Americans the exposure of all that is possible. Moreover, such operations take months.

And for reference, NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. There are no Asian members except Turkey.

[Pushkar]

Quote: EvilLion

Once again, are you having a country with a population of 140 million going to fight with the states with a total population of one billion? There are no Asian members except Turkey.

https://youtu.be/ecA6usYXQ1A?list=PLk88wIUGVAHejiuozYdVT_P8RVfS-vhQH
Give up?

[Dart2027]

Quote: Pushkar

Give up?

No, just in this case only nuclear weapons, but for conflicts like Syria or Georgia, 100500 aircraft are not needed.

[Inspector]

Will they ask you? Learn history - Russia has always been attacked by the whole world.

[EvilLion]

For some reason, the whole world beat Germany in WWII. Yes, and in WWI too. And that the tsarist army did this sucks, well, what an empire, such an army.

[Oleg Zorin]

The phrase "Having a country ..." sounded symbolically.

[Sergej1972]

From Asian countries to NATO, only Turkey.

[Max otto]

I'll just let you know that at the moment there is a vacancy in the Belavia company - a pilot (Boeing certificate and all that), salary (attention!) 10 Belarusian rubles (that's 000 $). Now the question is, how long will a military pilot last? - The answer is just as much as it takes to retrain as a civilian pilot.

[let_nab]

... Fedya ... are you a military pilot ?? How many landings do you have? And at a minimum, and at a minimum at night? A combat use of TSA ?? And AUSP ???? Go computer boys on bobiks and watermelons to teach ... the horseradish tankman ...

[Severok]

It seems that just recently, only thirty years ago, there were flying clubs at DOSAAF? There were. What did they do there? - parachuting, gliding, initial flight training (flights to the Yak-18, Yak-50, An-2, Yak-12, L-39)
Graduates of flying clubs had a green light upon admission to VVAUL and schools of the Civil Air Fleet, while they ALREADY knew how to jump with a parachute and had an independent raid on small aircraft! Those. they were already half-ready pilots!

What do we have now? If there is no exhaust in your pocket from the initiative of the authorities or the authorities, they will not immediately lift them from their seats. It is not profitable for these parasites from the government to deal with youth, they do not need Russia, free from influence from abroad, strong and independent economically. From here we have:
- almost completely destroyed the initial training at the level of the flying club.
- An incredible amount of indoor airports in the outback.
- a catastrophic situation not only with the training of pilots at all levels, but also an extremely filthy situation in education in general.
- very poor training of pilots, which translates into heavy LP and accidents due to poor piloting skills on the "stick".

[Ka-52]

The article is simply ridiculous, the author is an amateur, has a very superficial understanding of combat aircraft, why comment here?

exactly.

The same pilot of the 2-3 class is triggered

What did the author want to say?

Remember the disaster with the Tu-22M3 near Murmansk, at the airport "Deer". The strategic bomber had to land in low visibility conditions. It is clear that all-weather aviation does not exist in principle. A military pilot flies always. And ensures the safety of takeoff and landing ground personnel. So he didn’t work on “Deer”. Additional lighting for the landing strip was not provided. The pilot simply, given the snow charges that hit the cockpit, did not see the strip! And this is also the result of accelerated training of specialists

the author has no idea about flights to SMU. Experienced pilots experienced errors in airplane navigation during the time of the Union.

[akarfoxhound]

Colleague, when did you leave for demobilization? I have a suspicion that "not yesterday". I'll tell you that the requirements for the "class" have decreased today, lieutenants, for the most part, come from the Buratin (from above). One creature at the board of the squadron "formula of time" (T, S, V) gave birth for 15 minutes, another, for 10 minutes in the air multiplied 7 × 8, they did not know aerodynamics, they did not know the materiel, they didn’t know how to "shoot", over the edge. In 2011. in Dzemgakh, the lieutenant, having flown the Su-30 and Su-27SM (LCD screens) flew to the control one on the Su-27UB, with "alarm clocks". Having unscrewed in the zone, "well, let's go home", and in response to silence with arbitrary courses, it forgot KUR 0! Commander, I don't know where the airfield is. This crap is ubiquitous.

[bober1982]

Quote: akarfoxhound

Colleague, when did you go on demobilization?

In 1985, I was assigned a class 1st class military navigatora (Su-24), quit ten years after appropriation.

Quote: akarfoxhound

lieutenants, for the most part, come from the Pinocchio

I found it, the level of graduates, by the mid-90s was ugly, even worse, you can’t pick up the words.

[Geo]

Quote: akarfoxhound

... do not know, "... do not know how, ambition over the edge

You write about flyers, but I see our young doctors directly instead of them - one to one in the same picture)). And they treat people (sometimes even children).
Believe me, the poor quality of education today, is not only a problem of the aerospace forces or the army - it is a problem of the whole of Russia.

[Pete mitchell]

Plagiarism on my part, but the idea is in the suit: The destruction of any nation does not require atomic bombs or the use of long-range missiles. All that is required is a decrease in the quality of education and the resolution of cheating by students in exams.
Patients die at the hands of such doctors. Buildings collapse at the hands of such engineers. Money is lost at the hands of such economists and accountants. Justice is lost in the hands of such lawyers and judges.
The collapse of education is the collapse of a nation

[NN52]

Stellenbosch University? Quote?

[Pete mitchell]

Listen, I honestly wrote that this is plagiarism on my part. Sinful - I don't know the author. It's just right. This is one of the conductors of "liberal ideas" in everything. Whole generations have grown up in the West, incapable of mobilizing their own forces for the sake of achieving goals. But they will never forget about their rights, aka desires, and stuff something into their mouths. To follow this path is to get a situation where patients die at the hands of such doctors. Buildings collapse at the hands of such engineers. Money is lost at the hands of such economists and accountants. Justice is lost in the hands of such lawyers and judges and of course the pilots do not follow instructions

[NN52]

akarfoxhound

What type of lieutenant graduated from college?
And I have not heard something of this "story".

[akarfoxhound]

What is the "fairy tale"? At the board about "time" - 1ae 43 OMShAP mr. Gvardeyskoe 2006, a graduate of ChVVAUSH, there is a miracle now or not, you can clarify, I am from the Crimea to the East in 2007. went to relatives 31s, most of the witnesses of this show and now serve there (since 2015 they have moved to Saki), 7 × 8 multiplied by a graduate of Krasnodar, graduation of 2014, he flew with him, the case with "alarm clocks" - we are shooting with by several young crews in September 2011. went from Elizovo to Ts.Uglovaya ch-z. Dzemgi. On my board there was an engine failure just before takeoff (shavings in oil, the filter was taken out - like a porcupine :), in general, we stayed at a party. There are a lot of my AVVAUL kashniki there, one of them at that time was a deputy commander (now he is already driving here, in the "West", I will not give his last name, he still serves). He was with a leytech and flew to the zone. In general, the person was delighted with what happened. After that, all the young growth was launched. UBshku (she was at the factory before, for a pair of Su-30s), for 1,5-2 years people have zeroed in their heads. Did you fly with the LCD? "Pupkin's arithmetic" in the most colorful pictures! Draws everything in awesome form! Need a spare? "Kropka", displays a picture with "you" in a specific place and suitable spare ones, choose the "one you like" and then all the way and the course lines with curves of "all LURs" before landing, with numbers of Course, Time, Distance, Remaining fuel (borscht is not cooks, did not finalize the constructor :) People stop thinking at all.
All of these characters are alive, sniff for the good of the motherland.
Py.Sy. Somehow before demobilization (in 2017) in the evening we talked with one elder "heart to heart", he was very impressed by his story "about the days of institute" in the Krasnodar Bursa: criminal cases of robbery and gang rape ", and the halo that hovers there (it seems p-k. Lyakhov was in charge, I didn't hear a word about this "businessman", from anyone, now they've removed). You know, from what we had "with a feather in the ass" nothing to do. The common word is Army and that's it. There are, of course, guys with burning eyes, but unfortunately, this is the exception rather than the rule.

[NN52]

akarfoxhound
Do you know "Nose"?

[Pete mitchell]

Are you on the gold issue when you finished your bursa?

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: akarfoxhound

This crap is ubiquitous.

Civilians have the same garbage for a long time. I even have a favorite question - how to determine the span of a navigation beacon, just killer

[Pete mitchell]

Result: the topic in the article was raised very topical and requiring a serious approach. Ideas article 5 points.
The article is weak 3, well, very weak. The topic is not disclosed, the author is familiar with the situation very superficially.
This is really a serious problem and here you can’t do a hundred lines ...

[Mestny]

Well, yes, he did not write anything about Rogozin and about the children of officials abroad.

[Pete mitchell]

Do you disagree with something? State a thought

[NN52]

Pete Mitchell Pete Mitchell
Tramp
Hello! Leave the man alone, he simply has nothing to say on the topic of the article, and he writes about the officials.
And with the normal, by the way, guys are now graduating. There are simply few of them nationwide, while there are graduates ... especially in fighter aircraft. The latest issue was skewed towards the BTA (but it’s not some kind of mercantile thing, but just flying on the L 39 showed that it is better for the cadet to go on dual control further, he does not pull on a fighter or a ShA).

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: NN52

Leave the man alone ..

Hi, may Allah grant him success in military and political training, but if you don’t agree, tell me a thought and discuss it. And here Rogozin? Go into politics and fight with them. But neither Rogozins, nor even the Commander-in-Chief of the VKS are guilty of failure to fulfill their official duties by specific characters. Like you, I grew up with the thought that success is nameless, and the problem always has a name, surname, address ....

[Flex]

You’re saying some kind of nonsense. What do you think sits out of sight of the strip. Yes, and with a vertical of 8-10 meters?

[Ulum]

Dear, on which collective farm have you been taught? Navigation is performed by the navigator, and the pilot is piloting. And do not make an air guru here. You are a layman

[Severok]

Have you watched the disaster video?

Remember the disaster with the Tu-22M3 near Murmansk, at the airport "Deer". The strategic bomber had to land in low visibility conditions. It is clear that all-weather aviation does not exist in principle. A military pilot flies always. And ensures the safety of takeoff and landing ground personnel.

It was the coverage of the strip in SMU that was completely absent.

[edeligor]

Judging by the commentary, you are an "expert" in Air Force affairs. Enlighten us then and show your "deep" idea of ​​the Russian military aviation.

[bober1982]

The accident problem in aviation was always there, in the Soviet Air Force they began to fight it back under Stalin, where this issue was raised at the level of the Politburo, but they could not solve this problem. The accident rate of the 50s and 60s was simply terrible, this was (including) connected with the re-equipment of new jet equipment.
In 1965, the Resolution of the CPSU Central Committee was issued ....... about unacceptably high accident rate in the air force, that is, the accident rate was taken over by the party itself. And, some order was put in place.
But, it is impossible to eradicate accidents and catastrophes, and in the Soviet Air Force of the 70s - 80s, about 90-110 "crashes" of aircraft and helicopters took place a year.
It was like in horror movies.
A plane crashed into the barracks (dozens of dead), a plane crashed into the factory entrance (dozens of dead), a plane crashed into a kindergarten (dozens of dead), a plane crashed with all the Pacific Fleet’s generals, three Su-15 crashed on a landing course for 8 (eight ) minutes, etc.
The article is illiterate.

[EvilLion]

If we compare a 4th generation fighter and some MiG-21, then the level of automation of the 1st generation exceeds the level of the 2nd one totally. Only one "panic button" was supposed to save dozens, if not hundreds, of cars and pilots.

At the same time, in the 50 models of airplanes were replaced every couple of years, despite the fact that many were actually a step into the aerodynamic obscurity, there can be no question of any reliability of equipment and quality of pilot training. But now they whine that the Su-57 has been doing for a long time. Well, because for a long time, every little thing is checked.

[EvilLion]

The terrible accident rate of the F-104, EMNIP is quite at the level of the MiG-21, and it seems that it was even higher for the Su-7. So, even by Soviet standards, he became famous in this regard.

Designer Dry
Raw airplane
And the pilot is wet

Actually, the last suitable combat Yak was during the Second World War, and the first suitable combat Su was probably Su-15.

[Aviator_]

The failure of the F-104 is due to idiotic dope to make a supersonic plane with a straight wing of small elongation, while the front edge of the wing had a very small radius of curvature. The accident of the MiG-21 compared with it was significantly lower. But about the accident rate of the Su-9 and Su-11 - I’m not sure, maybe it’s about the same as on the F-104.

[Geo]

Quote: bober1982

The article is illiterate.

It’s just not about the videoconferencing, but about an unknown hero who marks in the chair of the commander-in-chief of the videoconferencing

[figwam]

The pilot on the Su-34, the view from the cockpit, due to the location of the crew shoulder to shoulder, will always be worse than on other aircraft, and this is an accident in the air.

[Ka-52]

from the same opera the catastrophe of the board, where G. Shchelkovsky was KK - at first lagged behind the leader, and when "catching up" went 50-70 m ahead of the leading Perushev. And when turning to the right with a roll of up to 30 ° lay on his wing. As a result, the board of Shchelkovsky crashed (operator Spasibko and navigator Rozhnov N died). And by the way, Shchelkovsky had 2nd grade. And this is 1973.

[EvilLion]

For this, aircraft also have side-view mirrors.

[Flex]

Hey, Beaver. And Staver is all right - training the pilots now is not the best ... the best go to Aeroflot. Plus a question of motivation ... Do you want to protect Chubais and his interests with Miller?

[Pessimist22]

Armed forces are commanded by a person who does not have a military education, but he is a friend of himself!

[Ka-52]

Armed forces are commanded by a person who does not have a military education, but he is a friend of himself!

you yourself even thought they wrote? Pasha-Mercedes graduated from the RGVVDKU and the Military Academy of the General Staff. Brought much benefit at the post of MO?

[syndicalist]

Quote: Ka-52

Pasha-Mercedes graduated from the RGVVDKU and the Military Academy of the General Staff. Brought much benefit at the post of MO?

Awesome logic! However, it is in line with the current Russian personnel policy. If one specialist has managed, then it is necessary to appoint amateurs as leaders.

[Strashila]

At the head is one, all instructions are written in blood, any retreat leads to the loss of human life. This is a human factor, in technology, it’s becoming more and more complicated, the system that built up for decades collapsed, it was destroyed instantly, but it takes decades to restore. Yes, actually again a classic, devastation in the minds. Pseudo savings and gouging, according to the principle, and so it will come off at random, does not roll at 100%. Actually in the article, there are no claims to technology, people decide everything. Pilot work is hard work and not everyone is ready to work hard for it, and only then can something be achieved.

[Rajah]

Surovikin- "Boot", and that says it all. While such a commander-in-chief of the VKS is stupid to wait for improvements.

[vik669]

Yes, there have not been such professional commanders of the Aerospace Forces and the Air Force for a long time, but those are the times - everywhere "professionals" are not clear at what level but their own people and this is a big difference!

[Sergej1972]

He has a deputy commander of the Air Force from among professional aviators. The Air Force is part, though the largest, of the Air Force.

[samarin1969]

Thanks to the author from the amateur. If at least half of this has a place to be, then this is sad and explains a lot.
Well, is there really no money for the flight crew? !! ... What is the point of modernizing ground forces without mass trained aviation?

[Chaldon48]

The USSR, while it was, was fundamental to everything, to our whole life. Extremely weak attempts are now being made to revive only certain fragments of former power, but without an upswing in the economy and the general well-being of the people, no serious progress can be made in this direction.

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

The Russians have already once abandoned this trash called ,, capitalism ,,. The motto of this ,, system ,,: ,, Rights without duties ,,. , The big Russian-speaking bourgeoisie milks the country and are not responsible for anything. Where are the model circles, where are the flying clubs, where are the aviation schools? In the Central Museum of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, airplanes stand in the open. The peeling paint, the yellowed plexus ... The Americans have reservists on aircraft carriers sit on weekends and girls fuel trucks are piloting ... A completely different, higher level of aviation culture. The current Russian Air Force is a parody of the USSR Air Force of the 80s of the last century. They were going to put the Be-12 back into operation ... What is there to comment on? And the Tu-160 and Tu-22M3- this is not the merit of the current, top managers ,,. ,, Thanks to Comrade Stalin for our .... ,, for our Tu-95. He also guards Mother Russia. You can jerk, you can smile, you can ruffle, about anything ,,. A mock parody of the state’s defense capability will turn into a catastrophe worse than the 1941 catastrophe. What are ,, experts ,, in fact, look at Syria. Who just does not bomb the country-ally of the Russian Federation. And the Israelis, and the Americans, and the Turks, and the Saudis ... Russia put on a laughing stock

[bober1982]

Quote: samarin1969

If at least half of this has a place to be, then it’s sad

No need to be sad, everything will be fine.

[Flex]

Everything will only get worse because the age of effective managers and not professionals has come. Where did you get such optimism?

[rocket757]

In the meantime, alas, we see switchmen who are to blame for all the troubles of our aviation.

Who is to blame for the fact that at the airport, in a difficult weather situation, they did not turn on \ the additional lighting on the strip does not work ??? VKS commander ???
Shaw for nonsense !!!
EVERYONE should be responsible for their own, specific area of ​​responsibility ... or rather, wrong, SHOULD ensure the normal work of what is entrusted to him !!! DIE but do it, THIS is what life depends on .... if I knew that it wasn’t working, why didn’t I take action in advance to repair the damage !!!
Until everyone is taught to do their work responsibly, action must be taken !!! To teach the under-educated, to finish the unfinished business, and to plant criminals !!!
Now in the Aerospace Forces "added" all sorts of different things, that the commander should be a flyer - a missile operator - a combatant and many, many others !!! WE HAVE SUCH, WHERE TO TEACH THIS ???
The only specialist \ officer of combined arms training that is equally remote / close to all these military specializations. And then, a question of qualified, competent deputies / assistants .....
PS .... again and again! In the army, everything is regulated by the CHARTERS, instructions, and all of them are written WITHOUT!
PPP ... a bad trait, harmful and dangerous, when officers of different specializations, different types of troops scornfully treat other specialists !!! dismissive "boots" towards the TSARINSA FIELD OF INFANTRY, does not paint "birds" very much ....

[frog]

Allow me some texts ..... The authors of these are the very same flight personnel that still serve or served in the very recent past.
"Yes, our MO is generally white and fluffy, yeah! :)))
Travel allowances were canceled a year ago, people running around are suing in crowds. You arrive at a distant garrison, "roll off" in less than a day in the air and the whole crew settles into the barracks to the soldiers - they provide free housing, in! Relax! Provided that you almost live on business trips! The answer is Moscow dates, which you are taking to the next inspection to the east - so business trips are your job, you get paid for it! And the fact that this goat, flying to the east, was slobbering for itself on these business trips, it was not her job :)
For health reasons, they are clinging to the write-off, hand over the flight uniforms before the official order arrives, write on yourself a write-off report with the order for the unit. Guys, before demobilization, I am obliged to conduct regular classes with my subordinates on equipment, and work on equipment other than in technical equipment is prohibited! I cannot on myself, instead of Kozhugetich and K *, orders to rivet the regiment. These financial "friends" ride around the shelves, they write out to servicemen "damage to the state for transferring uniforms of clothing and food" with amounts of 60-90 tyrs (the Ministry of Defense sometimes gives birth to orders for a very long time). People have already been demobilized for a couple of years, and they receive "voluntary" debt bills. Lawsuits are filed, the Ministry of Defense successfully loses them, for the nonsense is illegal in all respects. But some don't even sue. From this, in the reports of Shvetsova "vigorous" economy. Well, a lot of things, a lot, issued by orders to the troops retroactively. You serve and prove to be due, as in a sect. The flight crew flees from the VKS in droves.
They are running, without any! Judging by your comment to me, you, as a couple of decades, are not in the subject of the real state of affairs of the Air Force, excuse me. They pay not badly in the Civil Air Fleet, but "ours is not bad" at first took off up to a couple of tyrs in the green (this is when there is already 1 class and a major, we take the average), and after a couple of years, the stars went down 2 times, VPD was multiplied to zero, DV, i.e. if you are from Vladik, but serve in the Baltic, then for a family only for round-trip tickets 200t.rub. 13th, it is today 1010 was 60-80 tr., The last one for the new 2019. as much as 12-15 tyrov (from Vladivostok to "Brest", but it was interesting, I called the former fellow soldiers around the country) In the worst times, when I did not receive a salary for six months, I still increased it over time (I'm not talking about the equivalent of a pin dosovo papers, I'm talking about the figures in rubles), but so that I have it in the total amount reduced, and you, without flying in and living in the service, see it shrinking from the orders of the expensive Ministry of Defense retroactively regularly decreasing, canceling something - this was not ... Plus, you finance the needs of the family at your own expense. This is not an army, it is a religious sect today. My dad, an old combat pilot, the first graduation from the school on the Su-15, military testing of the Su-25 in Afghanistan, he served throughout the country in all parts of the Motherland, he left for demobilization with the collapse of the union. When I told him about my RFII army, he still did not take it seriously, UNTIL civil servants were invited to the post of chief of the metrological service of one mixed division of the Aerospace Forces (Su-25,24,30,35). Several years at the headquarters and his words are dypka! I don't understand how you can serve in this way ?! So in the presentation it is clear to the old bobery demob?
Py.Sy. Together with me, 7 pilots signed off in one week, the screams from the commander-in-chief were above the roof. More than 1800 people are already missing. flight personnel. So that a stupid, but healthy cadet was fired from Krasnodar today - I don't know what he should do (sleep with the head of the school's wife, his daughter, a dog, encroach on him ... emphasize the necessary :) In general, do not compare, from the army of the SA and RF common only the word army "

From copies of a survey on complaints from flight crews
"Travel expenses for participation in tactical flight exercises, air training competitions" Aviadarts "are not paid;
Annually by court decisions, the flight crews are obliged to return money to the budget for various reasons;
Unclear perspective with retirement pension;
A large number of tasks with a shortage of personnel;
No allowance is paid for performance of duties associated with a risk to life; "
"Unpaid business trips, without transportation and housing;
Involvement to perform tasks on weekends due to poor staffing;
Lack of time for quality training;
Low cash allowance (compared with civil aviation pilots);
Lack of quality Air Force supplies. "
And this is the same ally country .....
"The terrible attitude towards the flight personnel on the part of the higher command of the grouping;
When performing combat missions in the SAR, the flight crew is attracted to unusual tasks - building, checking, cleaning the territory, non-observance of the work and rest standards of the flight crew, which ultimately leads to non-combat losses of the flight crew;
The military police in the SAR exceeds the authority, disrespectful of the flight personnel;
When performing combat missions in the SAR there is no material incentive to perform combat missions - in the canteen and at the laundress the daily allowance is the same as that of the pilots, although the degree of responsibility is different;
In SAR, there is no respect for the work of pilots. Nominations for awards remain without implementation, at the same time, servicemen of combined arms units are awarded every week. "
Of course, there may be some biased, so to speak, complaints. But it was interrogated that not two people ....

“It is clear that as a result of the investigations into the September emergency, the Aerospace Forces will again talk about the same thing as last January: the lack of training of Russian military pilots. And also about the poor control of the command over the technical serviceability of aviation equipment. Aviation accidents are so dense - suspicions involuntarily creep in that there are systemic miscalculations at least by the leadership of the Aerospace Forces, or even by the leadership of the Russian Defense Ministry as a whole.

Although there is no wonder. In this regard, specialists and experts have long been sounding the alarm. ..... former commander of the 4th Air Force and Air Defense Army, Hero of Russia, Lieutenant General Valery Gorbenko .....: “The level of training of graduates of the Air Force Academy does not always meet the requirements for combat pilots. "Some young pilots have to finish their training on combat training programs in combat units for several more years."
One of the reasons for this is the poor condition of the L-39 and Yak-130 training aircraft, which cadets from the only higher military educational institution of Russia, who survived after the sad memory of the "Serdyukov" reforms, the famous Krasnodar Higher Military Aviation School of Pilots are taught to fly (KVVAUL ) Everything is so bad with flying "desks" that on September 3, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu expressed his indignation on this subject and ordered a special meeting to be prepared. As you probably noticed, by regrettable coincidence this happened on the very day when the Su-25UB crashed in the Stavropol Territory with captain Artem Lychev and Major Yuri Bortsov on board.
Apparently, things are better in the VKS with experienced pilots who are simply not enough in combat aviation. It is so lacking that, in February of this year, due to the lack of crews in one of the regiments of the elite 8th Special Purpose Aviation Division (Chkalovsky airfield), which, inter alia, is engaged in the transportation of the top leadership of the defense department, aircraft began to be put on conservation . Recently there is no one to fly on them.
Where have our best pilots gone? It is known where: in part - written off for health (but this is a normal, planned process). And partly, they removed their shoulder straps and went to work for civilian airlines, in which the salary is several times higher than even for commanders of combat aviation regiments.
Back in 2017, Shoigu informed the State Duma deputies that, in general, 1300 pilots were already lacking in our army at that time. That is, according to the most rough estimates, approximately 20-25 aviation regiments were not able to fly into the air, because there was simply no one to sit at the helm of their military and military transport vehicles. The Minister of Defense then promised that the most energetic measures would rectify the situation. But - where is it? Knowledgeable people argue that in two years with the staffing of the airborne forces, everything became even worse.

[frog]

Not everything has come in, sorry ....
At Aeroflot, potential pilots are guaranteed a salary that is simply sky-high for the Russian Armed Forces - up to 650 thousand rubles a month. And free retraining on Airbus, Boeing and Sukhoi Superjet. For comparison: a lieutenant, after graduating from college, he was appointed to the post of instructor, who has neither class nor length of service, receives about 60 thousand rubles. And the salary of the one who, at the helm of a fighter or attack aircraft, suppose has grown to a major, is about 80 thousand rubles. Well, even on business trips to Syria, you can earn up to 100 thousand rubles a month. Anyway, to the accounting statement of Aeroflot - as to the moon in an old helicopter.
So, after all, Aeroflot is not the only one with us that carries passengers across the sky. Together with him, others line up in line for lieutenants and majors with flight buttonholes. As evidenced by, no doubt, the fresh statement by the Victory Airlines CEO Andrei Kalmykov made in December 2018. According to Kalmykov, in his industry there is "a complete collapse of the pilot training system." But you need to fly. Where to go for replenishment, if not to the checkpoints of military airfields?
.... with the filing of this “outstanding military reformer”, in order to save the treasury, the Irkutsk Higher Military Aviation Engineering School (in 2009), the Yeisk Higher Military Aviation Order of Lenin Aviation School named after twice Hero of the Soviet Union pilot-cosmonaut Komarov (were thrown under the knife) in 2011), the Stavropol Higher Military Aviation School for Aviation Pilots and Navigators named after Marshal of Aviation Sudets (in 2010), the Tambov Higher Military Aviation Engineering School of the Order of Lenin, the Red Banner College named after Dzerzhinsky (in 2009).
In 2009, the spit of the “Serdyukov reform” was even entered over the current Chelyabinsk Higher Naval Aviation School of Navigators, which remains the only such military-professional profile in Russia today. But with the foregone conclusion, the schools were liquidated just before the forced bailout of Serdyukov from the ministerial chair.

Something like this. There is still much to be said, but that’s enough. As for me.....

[rocket757]

Quote: frog

Spit "Serdyukov reform" in 2009 was even entered

About THIS has already been written, not once or twice ... A LOT! They argued, they kicked me when I put clear marks to all such "raformers" ...
This is a product of the SYSTEM, i.e. the fish rots from the head.
I DO NOT KNOW how to overcome all this .... the only way to UNITE and defend the interests of ALL who defend the HOMELAND and who WORK to ensure the welfare of the people, and the whole country !!! Because this is WE COUNTRY, and all sorts of different sucked, this is what makes it weaker.
If you do nothing ... it won’t be good.

[frog]

No way. Because the bulk of the pile of humus on it. Because she doesn't need a bolt

[rocket757]

Quote: frog

No way. Because the bulk of the pile of humus on it. Because she doesn't need a bolt

We still don’t have Somalia ... it’s the hungry humble who are ready to go and win their own. not about us at the moment ... all the same, the upper story was at least somehow studied or the advisers in their course ....
something like this.

[frog]

they didn’t study a single stump, sorry. Because it is not enough to give the mass plenty to boil, it is also necessary to maintain the level, if not to develop it. And for this purpose, brains and conditions are needed. And we have problems with the brains, but about the conditions I’m just silent

[rocket757]

Another method .... a lot of noodles on the ears, the image of the good king to maintain and so, the rest, a trifle. So far, enough.
And it was bubbling, it is and it will be ... bleed off slowly, sometimes more. This is also a method, while it works, and a real explosion, for now ... they are in short delayed to infinity, as it seems to them.

[frog]

So I’m not saying that everything is already on the verge. So far, enough, but the prospects are depressing from the word absolutely.

[frog]

Despite the fact that the Russian Air Force is one of the most powerful in the world, the ex-Air Force commander Army General Peter Deinekin harshly criticized the readiness of the Air Force, noting that combat aircraft is not ready for a large-scale military conflict.

“At present, the Russian Aerospace Forces does not have a group, the size of which would allow for large-scale military operations. There is a lack of combat flight personnel ”,

[rocket757]

Fully and always ready straight for everything, for everything, there is no one!
The army is such a mechanism that you have to lubricate with "specific grease" so that it works to its fullest!

[frog]

So it is not about that. The army is not ready for anything, but for the fact that it can’t lead a force with more than a couple of brigades. The question, generally speaking, is systemic. But it’s pointless to analyze it))))

[rocket757]

The "lubrication" of the gear will be certified.

[frog]

Yes, it's okay there with "grease". According to statistics))) But in fact ....... In fact, everything is fine with us, the average teacher's salary is higher than the average for the region))) True, not 2 times, as the guarantor ordered, but these are details. As well as the fact that most of the teachers did not see her))) It's just that the lubrication usually ends in the area of ​​the oiler ...

[rocket757]

Quote: frog

Yes, it's okay there with "grease".

In the army, there is another "grease" and it will appear only in an extreme situation .... in peacetime, let the special departments and the prosecutor work, from top to top all who need to be "stimulated"!

[frog]

We already went through this once ..... Alas. I don’t feel like repeating, to be honest, but nothing seems to be changing ....

[rocket757]

I do not want .... nothing changes.

[bober1982]

Quote: frog

ex-Air Force commander Army General Peter Deinekin harshly criticized the readiness of the Air Force, noting that combat aircraft is not ready for a large-scale military conflict.

Do not rub the bright name of the deceased, calm down.

[frog]

Sorry, nobody shakes anyone. Just a quote. But he didn’t say that?

[Maria Gorina]

Fly through your land, seclude it!

[Old major]

Krasnodar, Armavir, Stavropol, Tambov, Balashov and Borisoglebsk schools are now combined in KVVAUL.

[frog]

Of course. And mat-tech base combined? And all the rest? And are the requirements for the cursors the same? In civic education, systematically speaking, it was all over. The output is biomass. There are some deficiencies, but they do not make the weather, even if they do not fall over the hill.

[edeligor]

The article is correct and the burrs are shown exactly how things are. What are we arguing about? About how the slave lead hurt? (and even with repetition) What is what is! The author has not yet given statistics on non-flying incidents, which would have looked much more deplorable than described. Or, dear to me, Surovikin - is his place in the Air Force? In my memory, one of the same infantry general at our airport forced technicians to file epaulets for technicals. Therefore, there are problems and they are described correctly, it could have been cooler.

[Ka-52]

The article is correct and the burrs are shown exactly how things are. What are we arguing about?

what is it correct? The author writes that it was great before, but now everything is bad. And he brings naive "proofs" far-fetched. They say now they do not teach, they do not fly, the class is appropriated for nothing, from this they fight. In fact, even during my service, there were enough flight accidents and crews died and training sometimes did not hold out. And any AP is an individual thing, in which experienced pilots sometimes do not pull out. And so to write, how to paint a fence - this is white, and this is black.

[edeligor]

Quote: Ka-52

and now everything is bad

I did not see this. The author showed weaknesses. And with what you disagree, what is far-fetched? Cool pilots? So they are missing about what the author says. They fought before, but so that the leader with the follower and twice a year ... This is the region, Andrei, and he correctly focuses his attention on this.

[Flex]

if you are so correct then tell the people about the plane of primary education ---- it’s not called Diamond by chance, huh?

[Syrian]

Yes, the Diamond DA-40, and also the DA-42, although it is a emnip in the Civil Air Fleet used on a par with co-operatives and aeroports, only in the good old Krasnodar they are taught immediately on l-39. Yak-52 is frankly not suitable for the initial flight training of pilots of the GVF simply because the plane is of a different class. no one does aerobatics on a turbo or an-26. And for cadets of army schools, the Yak-152 is forged, and most likely they will eventually be forged

[Old major]

There are no facts in the article.

[Glory1974]

you can have a personal dislike of something, or someone, but you can’t stoop to not professionalism,

I am not a pilot, but extrapolating the level of training in the ground forces on the aerospace forces, we can conclude that with the training is not very.
I agree with you that I would like to see specific accident rates compared to the USSR and the Russian Federation, by years, etc. to be specific.
But the fact that there are not enough 1300 pilots in the troops, there is an outflow of more or less experienced pilots into civil aviation, accidents happen several times a month, creates an alarming feeling.

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

I would like to see specific accident rates compared to the USSR and the Russian Federation, by years, etc. to be specific.

So now these very figures are in the open press, what is the problem?

Quote: glory1974

But the fact that the troops lack 1300 pilots

But in the early 90s there was an overabundance, they got rid very quickly, and now it has come back to haunt.

Quote: glory1974

there is an outflow of more or less experienced pilots into civil aviation

To go into civil aviation - you must not just be a wealthy pilot, but rich. Beggars are not expected there.

[Glory1974]

So now these very figures are in the open press, what is the problem?

Yes, there are no problems. I would like to see in the article to discuss specifically.
For example, I looked on the network and found data that the accident rate in the USSR in the 80-ies 1 case for 26000 hours of flight, and in the Russian Federation 1 case for 13000 hours.
It turns out that the author of the article did not provide data, but he is right.
About 90 does not agree. 19 years of the new century have already passed, and the issue with the pilots has not been resolved. So you can blame Nicholas 2-o. But really need a planning horizon 5-6 years. We need pilots, make an order at VVUZ, an enlarged set, after 5 years of release. And the current situation suggests that we do not even have 5-year planning. How modern rocket-propelled aircraft can develop under these conditions. It is not a biplane to build in 2 weeks and to prepare for a pilot's 40-50 hours.
In China, by the way, the planning horizon is 50 years.

To go into civil aviation - you must not just be a wealthy pilot, but rich. Beggars are not expected there.

A beggar pilot in your opinion is a lieutenant colonel, squadron commander with a salary of 150 thousand?

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

A beggar pilot in your opinion is a lieutenant colonel, squadron commander with a salary of 150 thousand?

So after all, here, on the site, they constantly talk about what beggarly conditions they are currently serving. It turns out that not so bad.

Quote: glory1974

For example, I looked on the network and found data that the accident rate in the USSR in the 80-ies 1 case for 26000 hours of flight, and in the Russian Federation 1 case for 13000 hours.
It turns out that the author of the article did not provide data, but he is right.

Which network? And, if the author did not provide the data, then how is he right?

[Glory1974]

So after all, here, on the site, they constantly talk about what beggarly conditions they are currently serving.

Compared to civilian aviation, where the salaries are 500-700 thousands, yes.

Which network? And, if the author did not provide the data, then how is he right?

On the Internet. I just typed a question in a search engine and got an answer. And this answer confirms that the author of the article correctly sounded the alarm because of the high accident rate of the aerospace conglomerate, because it is confirmed by numbers.
Therefore, your statement that everything will be fine does not cause optimism.

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

On the Internet

They could not continue further.

Quote: glory1974

the author of the article correctly sounds the alarm because of the high accident rate of the videoconferencing, because it is confirmed by numbers.

The author just doesn’t indicate these figures modestly, and they are such that the number of current accidents and disasters is minimal, and you do not need to escalate passions, especially at the Balabol level.

[Glory1974]

Quote: glory1974
On the Internet

They could not continue further.

Well, if for you the data of the main headquarters of the Air Force does not mean anything, then why comment at all?

The author just does not indicate these very figures, and they are such that the number of current accidents and disasters is minimal,

I gave figures from the data of the main headquarters of the Air Force. Do you have other data or is it all blah blah blah?

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

I gave figures from the data of the main headquarters of the Air Force

No need to make fun, if anyone reads your comments here (as well as the article under discussion) - in the Air Force General Staff, they won’t even laugh, but they’ll just laugh.
Do not disgrace.

[Glory1974]

The headquarters have long been crying from these numbers. The former commanders are sounding the alarm, and you are all haho.

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

The former commanders are sounding the alarm, and you are all haho.

But this aroused genuine interest, name the former name that they sound the alarm

[frog]

ex-Air Force commander Army General Peter Deinekin harshly criticized the readiness of the Air Force, noting that combat aircraft is not ready for a large-scale military conflict.

“At present, the Russian Aerospace Forces does not have a group, the size of which would allow for large-scale military operations. There is a lack of combat flight personnel ”,

[bober1982]

Quote: frog

former Air Force commander

there are no ex-Air Force commanders, there are ... ex-wives

[frog]

Taki quote. All questions - to domestic journalism.

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

The former commanders are sounding the alarm, and you are all haho.

Why are you so modestly silent? The author stupidly inserted the words of Peter Stepanovich (Kingdom of Heaven) into his article, and you are also stupid ..... They sound the alarm.

[Glory1974]

What do you want me to say? Figures for flight accidents I gave.
By training:
Pilots fly with 120 hours for pilots in Romania, 200-220 hours for pilots in the USA, and those who fly combat 300 hours + 300 hours on simulators.
In Russia we are trying to cross the 100 hours, 120 is presented as a great achievement, the Soviet norm in 200 hours is still far away.
The headquarters and commanders know this. Being in positions, I want to believe that they are fighting for an increase in plaque, while in retirement they talk about this more openly.
Any professional knows that 100 hours of flight are worse than 200 of our sworn friends and in case of war this is their advantage and our drawback.
What is your view on this? Everything is fine, a beautiful marquise .......... And we are writing nonsense.

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

And we write all nonsense

Quote: glory1974

In Russia we are trying to cross the 100 hours, 120 is presented as a great achievement, the Soviet norm in 200 hours is still far away.

Do you even imagine what a 200-hour raid is for front-line aviation ?, which you also defined as the Soviet norm.

Quote: glory1974

Being in office, I want to believe that they are fighting for a raid

Have you ever heard such an aviation term - manure ? And, have you ever heard of a Combat Training Course?

Quote: glory1974

What do you want me to say? Figures for flight accidents I gave.

But you did not give any figures.

Quote: glory1974

for those who fly combat 300 hours + 300 hours on simulators.

????, will not be too much, and on simulators, ???

[Glory1974]

I don’t determine the norms, I heard about the PSU course, and even drew up a BP plan for the part. I gave the numbers (see above, you probably forgot already), 300 there are a lot of flying hours, plus the simulator, generally go crazy. In our army I can’t imagine so much. There will be absolutely no time to go to the outfits, write notes on the UCP, participate in combat shows, etc.

[bober1982]

Quote: glory1974

I heard about the BP course

KBPdear comrade !!!!!!!!

Quote: glory1974

and even made a BP plan for part

It is just a masterpiece.

Quote: glory1974

300 hours of flying is a lot, plus also a simulator, generally go crazy.

So after all, I, and about the same thing, they will immediately take me to Durkee.

Quote: glory1974

There will be absolutely no time to go to the outfits, write notes on the UCP, participate in combat shows, etc.

And, they will lay it in a wooden box, and the music will sound mourning.

[Glory1974]

Quote: glory1974
I heard about the BP course

KBP, dear comrade !!!!!!!!

I think I understood your level of awareness.
Somehow Serdyukov, (he just became Minister of Defense) was brought documents on the Air Force (abbreviated as the Air Force), and he reads and asks in surprise: "What does the BBC have to do with it?"
Since then, a command was given in documents for Minister of Defense Serdyukov not to apply conditional reductions. Well, the furniture maker does not know the abbreviations adopted by the troops.

[Cat man null]

Quote: glory1974

made up a BP plan for part

BP, excuse me, is this the Big Arctic Fox? A la Burke?

Glory1974, you, according to legend, were like from motorized rifles (if my memory does not sleep with another)? So what side is the training of pilots?

I do not understand

[Glory1974]

glory1974, you are, according to legend, like from motorized rifles were (if my memory does not sleep with another)? So what side is the training of pilots?

Roman, I immediately wrote in a comment that I am not a pilot. But he agreed with the author of the article that the situation with air accidents in the Aerospace Forces is alarming. I looked at the available info on the network, and found the data that the accident rate in the Russian Federation is 2 times higher than in the USSR.
In response, I heard nothing but demagogy, although my opponent is positioning himself to be on the subject of aviation.
Indeed, I am from the ground crew, I was the chief of staff and was responsible for the preparation of the combat training plan, but naturally not with the pilots, but with myself.

[shura7782]

Quote: glory1974

In Russia we are trying to cross the 100 hours, 120 is presented as a great achievement, the Soviet norm in 200 hours is still far away.

Vyacheslav, what is there to explain. Everything is quite simple.
There is kerosene, there is plaque. No kerosene, no plaque.

[AU Ivanov.]

Compared to the line pilot of a more or less serious airline, he is a beggar.

[Okolotochny]

Well, I'm sorry. This is like comparing the salaries of civil servants and technical managers of Lukoil, for example. It is clear that there is a commercial company, the main goal is PROFIT, and the salary comes from it. Do you want to put all the RF Armed Forces on a commercial basis?

[AU Ivanov.]

As long as there is a gap between the salary of the "jacket" and the "boot", the flow of pilots from the military to the GA will not go anywhere.

[Okolotochny]

Not just a jacket, but a jacket from a commercial structure whose goal is Profit.

[Flex]

AS Ivanov. (Andrey) Yesterday, 13:19
+3
As long as there is a gap between the salary of the "jacket" and the "boot", the flow of pilots from the military to the GA will not go anywhere.
_________________________________________________________________________________________ Yes, it’s easy to struggle with the transition - signing a contract for a certain period. In airlines, the pilot must work five years after retraining for a type or a full refund. Why not introduce this in the army __________________________________________________

[Old major]

<< accidents in the USSR in the 80s 1 case per 26000 flight hours, and in the Russian Federation 1 case per 13000 hours. >>
Where is this from? What is the accident rate? What is meant by "accident rate"?

[Constructor68]

there is an outflow of more or less experienced pilots into civil aviation

What nonsense are you writing? In your opinion, it turns out that all who "more or less" leave, and then who remains? Mediocrity? Yes, your face will be stuffed for such words.

accidents happen several times a month

Above they wrote about the accident - what to rub again? Yes, and the accident accident is different.

creates a disturbing sensation.

The nervous system needs to be personalized and not read newspapers at breakfast. Do not read

[EvilLion]

I think that real pilots asked the author a simple natural question, why he says about "awesome training, although he is not a pilot himself."

[Mestny]

The author did not write about this. He wrote about bad power.
In this case, the theme is just the background. They, the background can be anything, any topic. Because the task has once again been set to breed mega ... discussion, well, and throw another spoon know what the fan is.
Suddenly, into whom he will fall. Water wears away a stone, and so on. Information war, in a word.

[Flex]

Mestny (Sergey) Yesterday, 09:51
-8
The author did not write about this. He wrote about bad power.
Well, please write about the good. about the opening of new flight schools. about yak130. about new built airfields ...... well, in general, like spaceships plow the expanses of the Bolshoi Theater

[AlexeyD]

The described problems, but rather even the problems raised, are present in all types and branches of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
Accidents have always been and will be in the future. That is why accident collections are published, etc., in order to somehow reduce or minimize them.
But the other side of the coin is touched on in the article as well: the lack of l / s.
Somewhere it is, but somewhere it is not.
And somewhere in the course of rabid reforms, reductions, etc. We came to the conclusion that 1 person - 1 type of activity - 1 position, and no one removed the entire set of functionality from the unit and unit. As a result, we have a bunch of contingency posts. And a person with great experience in his activities is forced to do everything, but just not what you need. Or engaged, but too little.
And so in GUK everything is well and wonderful painted on a piece of paper.
Then the author of the article touched on education. Well, duck, we have all the education, both civil and military, in a deep crisis. The thoughtless policy of the GUK leads to the fact that soon it will be like this: 1 teacher - 1-3 subjects. And if in a key discipline the teacher gets sick, leave, etc. It turns out that a gap is formed in the brains of the listeners. Another teacher will take this discipline, but does he know this direction as well as the leader of this discipline? .. Well, remember the contingencies.
...
The issue raised in the article is very large and that would sanctify everything here it is necessary articles 20 ...

[edeligor]

Here it is! I agree.

[K-50]

Why was it possible such egregious incidents as a collision of airplanes when performing quite simple maneuvers? Again, according to experienced pilots, this is possible only in one case: when the pilot considers himself an ace, able to perform any action. The very pilot of the 2nd-3rd grade is triggered.

The closest analogy to the drivers.
There, too, it is not those who have just graduated from the driving school that are fighting more often, but those who have traveled for a year on their own and consider themselves the king of the road. "

[Ros 56]

There was no need to kill air sports clubs, the youth there already got an idea of ​​what aviation is and what it is eaten with. What is the rise at 4 am, because you still have to get to the place, what is the heat in the cabin and other amenities. That is, there was a conscious choice of mine or not my business. And this is, in my opinion, the most important thing, a great desire to fly. And then everything else. It was not without reason that we had Hochma in the club, and not only with us - where aviation begins, order ends there.

[Professor]

In the United States and other armies, the situation is no better. Pilots are not enough everywhere. It is military pilots.

We have enough. The competition is still dozens of cadets in one place.

[Antares]

Quote: professor

In the United States and other armies, the situation is no better. Pilots are not enough everywhere. It is military pilots.

We have enough. The competition is still dozens of cadets in one place.

in the USA there was a 10% shortage due to a drop in the competitive salaries of military pilots in relation to civilian airlines.
Well, they quickly introduced programs like the Aviation Bonus Program

If the pilot signs a contract with the US Air Force for twelve years, then in addition over the years he can earn 420 thousand dollars. A bonus of several tens of thousands of dollars is paid annually. This program applies to almost all pilots in the US Air Force. Previously, such conditions were offered only to fighter pilots.

and still this is a global problem for leaders-countries with developed civilian airlines
However, the Pentagon in terms of monetary rewards cannot compete with civilian airlines that offer six-figure salaries to pilots of passenger liners. Every year, about 4,5 thousand pilots are required for American civil aviation. And former military pilots are in great demand there.
The US Air Force is trying to solve the problem on the other hand. There is a plan to enter the training and preparation of 1400 military pilots per year.
Normal competition. Once the military reigned supreme in the salary market.
Now there is no.
His Majesty the Consumer has changed everything.

[rocket757]

Quote: panzerfaust

The topic is very topical and despite the "battle" in the comments, I would like to thank the author. Sometimes you just feel ashamed for Russia. Why are we here again? Xs ...

Including because .... "there is no money, but you hold on !!!"

[Old major]

No. Confusing. There is a group formation (this is when there are four) and there is a pair formation. And there is a system "right bearing" - this is when the follower gets up from the right to the back and the "left bearing", respectively, from the left to the back. So you report - "to the right (or to the left) from behind". There is a closed system, there is an open system. A closed formation is needed so that on the enemy's radar screen, a group or a pair looks like one flare, that is, a target. Open formation - with limited visibility, except for the performance of a combat (combat training) mission.

[turbris]

The article is of course very weak, the author does not understand that various types of troops are included in the VKS and not only aviation, therefore the VKS group does not have to be an aviator, he graduated from the General Staff Academy, which means he must be ready to lead all types of aircraft. There were drawbacks in the aerospace forces under the Civil Aviation Group, of course, the situation with training aircraft is still criticizing the Moscow Region.

[dmmyak40]

Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi

At your leisure, you will see the statistics of aviation accidents and disasters in the USSR, your hair will stand on end.

I explain again.
Airplanes also fought in the USSR, but in percentage terms, much less, because:
1. There were many more planes and helicopters than now in Russia. Take only small aircraft. Is it clear now?
2. The average flying hours of a military pilot in the USSR was much larger than now in the Russian Air Force.
Or will you argue here too?
The Union had many planes and helicopters that flew a lot. Naturally there were disasters.
Now there are few aircraft, few fly, small aircraft destroyed as a class. Pilots fly a little. GVF is not taken into account. And all the same, plane crashes happen.
Further explain too, or do you understand?

A lot of words and very little evidence. Now about the specifics: in one of the topics, I had to refute, with statistics in my hands, the assertion of one excessively zealous patriot that in the USSR airborne equipment was super reliable and APs were only due to human fault. I do not own statistics for the USSR Air Force, but for Aeroflot in 1973 (or 1976) the year of disasters and incidents due to the fault of technology was about 33,3% !!! These were mainly An-2, Ka-26, Mi-2, i.e. small aircraft. But it's still too much!

[dmmyak40]

The strategic bomber had to land in low visibility conditions. It is clear that all-weather aviation does not exist in principle. A military pilot flies always. And ensures the safety of takeoff and landing ground personnel. So he didn’t work on “Deer”. Additional lighting for the landing strip was not provided. The pilot simply, given the snow charges that hit the cockpit, did not see the strip! And this is also the result of accelerated training of specialists ...
The author seems to write normally, but upon closer examination it becomes clear that the person is familiar with the topic clearly by hearsay.
1. Tu-22 of any modifications is a long-range missile carrier bomber, but not a strategist at all.
2. All-weather aviation exists and not only in principle: the author is clearly not familiar with the automatic landing systems and the ICAO classification of aircraft into categories (it’s not worth more in detail, you can easily find it).
3. The safety of take-off and landing is provided, in fact, by ground personnel, but the overwhelming majority of the responsibility lies with the spacecraft.
4. Additional lighting of the runway: I do not know about the Air Force, but at Aeroflot our runways were equipped with two types of lights: low-intensity lights (OMI) and OVI (high-intensity lights). Thus, each airfield had a minimum take-off and landing according to OMI-OVI. When landing at the PMU, the PIC asks the DPSP to turn on the lights, depending on the conditions. He may ask to reduce the brightness of the JVI, for example: Ershov has such an episode in his book. BUT: it is not the dispatcher who decides to land, ONLY the PIC !!! (except for the cases when the board has gone beyond the permissible deviations in course-glide path-altitude-vertical speed, etc.). If you have not established visual contact with the ground on VLOOKUP, where do you continue to descend, and even with such a vertical speed? !!! If you have already decided to sit down in such "milk", then you have to "creep" up to the alignment with a low vertical speed, and not fall like an ax into an ice-hole.
I had to sit down with visibility close to zero: you clearly maintain the parameters for the INSTRUMENTS, and not with your eyes, the devices will take you on target, only do not get the fool yourself.
5. If the pilot does not see the strip, but continues to decline without knowing where, then the price to him is penniless.

[kit88]

The catastrophe occurred at 13:40 Moscow time.
I have a general question for the flight crew. Do they turn on the lights during the day? Here in such situations. Upon request or what?

[dmmyak40]

It all depends on the meteorological situation: if the minimum of the weather is lower than the minimum of the aerodrome, then turn on the JVI and make a control measurement of horizontal and vertical visibility, then on the actual visibility. Usually in the SMU, if the runway lights are not visible well, on the glide path they asked to turn on the JVI / OMI, then - according to the situation.

[lukewarm]

"Market" and "free" country. Contract army. OK. As a result, many guys, entering the Military Pilot School, already consider it in advance as an opportunity to learn to fly for free, then, having gained experience and having served the prescribed contract, DUMP quickly to GA. Somehow it is represented by people who are really in the subject. About awkward training in the VKS schools - I have not met any information. But in civilians - a dime a dozen. A couple of years ago, the network was bypassed by a video in which the instructor talks about the level of training inherent in the PROGRAM of training in civilian schools. Not about what they did not finish their education due to negligence, lack of a base. No! they just didn't even intend to teach. And these pilots then carry passengers.

[iouris]

Quote: "He who does not fly does not fall." End of quote.
It seems to be logical. In fact, a substitution of the essence of the phenomenon. It is necessary to analyze flight safety, but here we need a figure - quantitative indicators of safety in relative form. While they are gone, there’s nothing to talk about. It just discusses the long-discussed staffing decision. The rest is far-fetched. The state of affairs in military aviation is clear to specialists and it is only possible to turn the tide in this area by turning the tide of the general situation in the state, because it is wrong to tackle particular issues without solving the main ones (a long-known management principle).
According to the local media, a pilot was sentenced in court a few days ago, who allegedly provided incorrect information about his annual raid (essno, overestimated), obviously, to receive cash allowances. It is reported that he was scheduled for an annual raid of 40 (!!!) (forty) hours.
About training on integrated flight simulators. This is an important step, but it cannot replace real plaque. There have been studies that have shown that the proportion of "ground" plaque should not exceed 10-15% of the actual plaque. otherwise, harmful skills are formed. In addition, training on a simulator is only effective when it is carried out according to clear methods, under the guidance of specialists who are engaged only in this, qualitative assessments are determined and recommendations are given. And who controls it? Is aviation science funded, has modern infrastructure? There are doubts.
Returning to the quote at the beginning of the post, one should definitely say: "When the crews of military aviation are provided with a sufficient (large) flight time, then the level of flight safety is higher." And this is only a necessary (insufficient) condition. It should be borne in mind that even with 100 hours of flight per year, the pilot is directly engaged in piloting less than 10% of the service time budget, and he receives significantly less for practicing combat use skills. There is no such thing, perhaps, in any kind of professional activity.

[Russian Central Asian]

Well, yes, the number of schools for training personnel has decreased, and training is more on simulators than on real aircraft, yes, indeed, such training for military pilots can hardly be called full-fledged, and, yes, such pilots are ruining both themselves and equipment, yes, it is sad. But, for what budget savings. Indeed, you must admit that even if you invest an order of magnitude more money in the pilot’s training, this will not give a one-hundred-percent guarantee that no one will knock him down, or he, by his own foolishness, will not kill himself or the plane, as it is known, no one is safe from accident. Well, is it worth it to push a ton of money into preparation if the probability of losing both the pilot and the car remains one hell, well, but still there’s some kind of saving, but. Well, what’s the way out, so that the planes fly and money on this could be spent at a minimum. The answer is obvious and lies on the surface. Moreover, such an option has long been tested in many other areas of life. THIS IS GASTERS AND BABS. Gaster is not necessary to train on real airplanes, to be honest there will be a lot of simulator. A Pentium-1-type computer with some F-22 type flying machine and the ability to walk in a formation are enough, at the same time they will equip the school’s territory and build cottages for the school’s command staff. Well, the Russian woman is, as you know, that's all, the Russian woman always saved RUSSIA- MATUSHA, she has such a fate.

[Old major]

Peter Deinekin died in 2017. These his words were said in 1998. Why would the author suddenly pull out a quote 20 years ago?
About the training of pilots and "one Krasnodar school", the author, here read it: https://topwar.ru/47064-aleksandr-mladenov-o-sisteme-podgotovki-letchikov-vvs-rossii.html
Retell sensible written no sense.
On the fly. Cadets are now starting to fly in the 3rd year. And they fly at 4 and 5. In my opinion, they start flying a little late, here the sooner the better, but here now the "Bologna Process" rules.
Annual flight time for training programs of approximately 90 hours per year. That is, they graduate from the school with a flight time of 230-250 hours. Moreover, some graduate pilots leave with 3rd grade, that is, this is already a combat-ready pilot, that is, with combat use in PMU, and not just "take-off and landing".
A raid in front-line aviation now - they have gone somewhere for 165-170 hours a year. This is slightly less than in the USSR (then they flew 190-200 hours a year), and slightly less than the pilots in the USA (200-220), but in general - not critically less.
The above "analysis of incidents" is kind of stupid - that's why they fly, so that the experience would appear. And in the USSR and NATO, there are quite a lot of burned out during landings and colliding in the air. And where did the author get his conclusions on the Olenegorsk catastrophe? The official conclusions are not yet publicly available.
"Ahovoy state" L-39 and Yak-130 (!!!) - that's what. In aviation, there is no such thing as a "state of failure", there is the concept of "serviceability" and "combat readiness", and standards for these two indicators. When the pilot comes to take off, the aircraft technician (and with him the entire IAS chain) reports to him - "Comrade Commander, the aircraft is ready for departure", which means that the aircraft has a sufficient resource, and all the work stipulated by the maintenance and repair regulations has been completed ... He doesn’t tell the pilot - “listen, this is the state, don’t press these buttons, don’t use these modes, and in general, it’s better not to fly at all!”. ... "Awful state ..."
And about training pilots by class. The class is assigned according to the execution of the combat training programs by the pilot. "Accelerated" is how? Is he not going to do some of the CBP exercises?
The USSR Air Force also underwent different preparation for class. In other regiments, the pilot could walk for three years with the 3rd grade, and then another 5 years with the second. And in the other regiments you look, after three years, he is still older, and already with the first class. It depended on the organization of the flight methodological work, and on the command, and on the pilot himself, and even on the geography of the airfield. Well, rarely in Mari SMU minimum, and without work and landings in SMU minimum you can’t fly into first grade.
In general, the author most likely DOES NOT HAVE A UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT TO WRITE ABOUT.

[shura7782]

Yuri, I wrote about the same thing. I would like to clarify your post. You write that pilots with a class were graduating. I do not recall such cases in my memory. One graduate came to us on Yak - 28p without a class, although he flew to DOSAAF and to the school. And he had a raid more than the rest.
Also, the pilots with all the documents went to the army headquarters there and handed over the documents and theory. Was it easier for cadets?

[Radical]

Quote: EvilLion

Russia can easily transfer from the Far East. No, maybe you are going to fight with everyone all the time, including China, well then I can once again repeat the joke about Private Smith, who will have nowhere to take so many cartridges for a rifle to shoot hundreds of enemy soldiers.

We don’t remember the history of the Second World War, or we don’t know, or was it taught according to the textbooks of Chubais’s older brother? Then let me remind you - the USSR then fought against all of Europe, led by Nazi Germany, but held significant forces in the Far East. Why? Because Japan, being a member of the Berlin-Rome-Tokyo axis and an ally of Germany, carefully watched how the confrontation in the West would end, and on whose side the advantage would be. Do you have a guarantee that now there is no such permissible axis: Washington-Tokyo -... Beijing?

[Dedok]

unfortunately, in general, this is so.
as in IA Krylov: "... but you are friends as you do not sit down, all musicians are not suitable ..."

[ratan524]

Akhovaya ... Akhovoe ... More specifically, please, we are not in the smoking room. And, the author, since when did flying flights become ... hmmm ... simple ??? What are you talking about, my friend ???

[Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock]

In general, I was always surprised by one circumstance in the training of pilots, compared with other types of troops:
- general arms officers, tankmen, artillerymen, signalmen, etc. they were usually ready for use by class specialists, usually 3 classes, less often 2 classes, even less often than 1 class, and pilots, then after 4 years of training not ready. Well, if it’s so difficult, then they would increase the training at the Higher School of Education by a year or two ....
In the current conditions, probably, after the minimum raids on retirement (a year for two, at least), having issued a housing certificate, it is difficult to keep a pilot in the VKS with such high salaries in the Civil Aviation.

[Astronaut]

An incomplete article, I read something similar the other day, only there the ending and the conclusions were somewhat different.
In short, General Surovikin is being trained in the place of Shoigu, and Shoigu will go in the place of Medvedev.
But this information is rumored!

[shura7782]

Yeah ......! Author bother to answer. Did someone advise you? Why not show the article to the consultant first. Not shown, but in vain.

It is ordered to fly - fly. In any weather.

The pilot can always refuse if he considers that the task for him is impossible. For each weather there is a pilot's clearance. Each has his own level of training. Deal with this.

If in the USSR more than 20 military schools were involved in the training of pilots of military aviation, then today one

Is this critical in your opinion today?

On the akhovy condition of aircraft L-39 and Yak-130

You want to say that planes are flying out of order? What suggestions will you have?

Weak pilot training in schools continues in units.

] Note. A graduate without a class is brought to the regiment and in combat training centers. They probably told you, but you listened.

The regiment command is forced to "grow combat pilots" in accelerated mode.

The regiment commander is a pilot himself and also directly takes part in the cultivation of the young. in accelerated mode. this means that the young one flies a lot. Even for young people, we organized additional separate flight shifts. If you think that the flight program for the Combat Training Course is being reduced, then you are very mistaken. They can renew if something doesn’t work, but they can’t reduce it. It’s not worth putting a shadow on the commander .. t.k. above him, too, the commanders stand and also fly into his regiment, and maybe with the young too.

[shura7782]

In parts there is a mass release of pilots of the 3rd class, and sometimes of the 2nd class.

It is in the units, and not somewhere, that the pilots earn with their ridge 3, 2, 1 class and the pilot sniper. The author, this is very surprising for you.

Why was it possible such egregious incidents as a collision of planes when performing quite simple maneuvers?

And you will teach as it should, preferably yourself. And give a one hundred percent guarantee that your pet will have a long and trouble-free longevity. If the warranty is violated, then you have a period. But some forum users literally offer this wild draconian responsibility. After all, the technique is expensive. At the same time forgetting that the pilot is more expensive.

And to solve these problems, first of all, the VKS commander is obliged. To do this, he has all the forces and means,

You are a naive person. The commander in chief does not have the most important thing aircraft and kerosene in the required quantity. And the accident rate in aviation will end only when it stops flying. Those. never. Unfortunately.

[Andrey VOV]

The author is a military combat pilot? No .. how much if I am not mistaken, the land military is retired or retired ... the conclusions that they are universal in the article and applicable to many other problems ... and yet, the author, do you have combat experience?

[Pavel57]

An article to kick Surovkin?

[Barsic]

I would like that everything that we write about would be read by the one on whom at least something depends, and this is just idle talk!

[Dimonst]

Didn't read the comments .. article "Test"

[Ruslan_1976]

it would not be bad to reveal the topic of unmanned aircraft, and as a result of this the extinction of military pilots as a class. Perhaps they will remain only on carriers of Poison. weapons and then on legal aspects

[Tenet]

Quote: Mestny

Nothing, at meetings and on the Internet this comes in. Even complicated.
He just made a little mistake on the site.

reads VO magazine a lot from near and far abroad ... this is their subjective opinion, and we have our own opinion and view of the situation

[loaln]

The number of military schools in the country reduced? True, money has become in bulk? It’s not clear to anyone, but still.
Against the background of what? An oversupply of pilots?
Well then, for what purpose are you tweeting?
Then collect what is indecent to write about. It will fall out regularly.

[Maria Gorina]

Fly through your land, seclude it!

[Sofievka]

I watched the film "Beyond the Clouds - the Sky" and "Beyond the Clouds - the Horizon", there is no country, it's scary, have we really fallen so mentally? Money, just money? Is it time to look into your soul? What's next?

[iouris]

Quote: Sofievka

What's next?

Build a chart in three to four points: 1985, 1991, 1998, 2019. Continue it according to the trend. Stop by in about fifteen years - we’ll evaluate the quality of forecasting. So you say - the soul. And not a word about vodka ...

[novel7735657598]

we are still in the fresh past. Designers, engineers and others in this sense live and think only with their own heads. If you brought them your design, your perfect work is just annoying. "Why did you come up with this and not him. Or simply does not want to delve deeply. It is yours to appear over his last name. THIS IS A PURE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
you wonder, breathtaking from idiots. Not really the truth all around do not see and do not hear. Guns, tanks, planes, assault rifles, all this should long be a thing of the past. Unbearable idiocy. Once a tank shoots, it will reveal itself and be destroyed with the crew. And the drone will be shot from the ground. Guns with the calculation and mortars there, retaliation. The drone should fly silently. Now there is a desperate violence of engineers who have direct open access to this kind of development. Most importantly, all of them are driven by self-interest, first of all, to cash in. They essentially did not come up with anything. The computer will find the proper form and it will cram it with the same programs. A person will only have to wash the sweat from the monitor. You won’t surprise anyone now. Everything before him was invented by someone. But the silent electric drone-bomber is fully assembled only in my mind.

[polar bear]

The consequences of the Serdyukov pogrom are still affecting (in fact, Putin's, Serdyukov is only an executor), when tens of thousands of experienced officers themselves were fired from the army. The educational institutions, the structure of the Air Force, even military airfields were trashed. Instead of the Air Force, they created some kind of VKS, neither this nor that. When Putin got into a mess with his "Western partners", he rushed to restore what was destroyed, but, as you know, it is easy to destroy, and it is difficult to restore and build something new. Therefore, today there are no strong air forces capable of opposing NATO on equal terms in Russia. And, by the way, the conditions for the Tu-22 landing in Olenegorsk are quite normal for the north, pilots fly there and not in those, they are bad for the Crimea or Lipetsk.

[pvs512]

"He commanded a group of Russian troops in Syria" - there are all aviation and air defense. So the person is in his place.

[nesoglasen]

Any loss is a lack of discipline and order. Simple and clear, and do not carry any nonsense!

[yehat]

Quote: bober1982

You have some kind of unrelated and very confusing set of words and phrases, did not understand anything.

I will try to explain
everywhere during the operation of aviation there are problems and often disasters,
it was in the USSR and in today's Russia
the author of the article claims that now the percentage of accidents from flights is abnormally high in comparison with the USSR and gives possible reasons.
And I would add that there are 2 more important reasons - the requirements of fuel economy to the superiors of the pilots and often broadcast to the pilots themselves and the fact that we now actually fly outside our fleet.
Soviet cars and foreign ones are not our cars, some are already old and production is stopped, problems with spare parts, second ... sort of as it is, but firstly, basically they come to the Russian Federation not new, and secondly, there remain problems with their service.
And the last - a skilled pilot now - this is a rare beast that is often overloaded with flights. A young, well-trained pilot is generally extremely rare.

and the last one.
It seems like now they actively advertise the breakdown rate of Soviet cars, but they are so reliable, understandable and tested that I generally find pedaling this topic strange.
But there are questions to the "reliable" Boeing. Yes, they are modern, economical, there is automatic diagnostics, but mines of non-compliance with safety standards are protected in these machines. There are enough incidents.
Separately, I would like to note that with what is called "bumpiness" and "shaking", I, who flew for many years as an Aeroflot passenger, met only on 2 aircraft - an-2 and a Boeing 737 (4 different generations) on the first - because on he learned to fly, and on the second, because it is so designed.