Military Review

Question from China: the USSR had 9 aircraft carriers, why did Russia have only one?

419
The Soviet fleet, which in its power followed the US Navy, although it did not pay much attention to the development of aircraft carriers, created a considerable number of them after the Second World War. At the time of the collapse of the USSR, nine ships of this type were built or were on the slipways, and today in Russia you can see only one of them - the Kuznetsova. Why did it happen? This question is asked by Sohu.




According to the Chinese publication, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, seven of them went to Russia. Two units were Moscow-class helicopter carriers with a displacement of 15 thousand tons. They have served since the 1960's and were in a worn condition. Moreover, these were difficult times for Moscow, so the ships were soon decommissioned.

Still got four aircraft carrier type "Kiev". The eponymous lead ship and the first production Minsk were bought by the PRC and today work in amusement parks in Tianjin and Nantong. The third Novorossiysk was transferred to South Korea for 13 million dollars, which, wishing to master this type of armament, dismantled it in parts. According to Sohu, the most legendary was to be “Baku” (renamed “Gorshkov”). After 10-year repair, it was sold to India for 2,9 billion dollars.

The only aircraft carrier remaining in Russia is Kuznetsov, “stolen” from Ukraine the day before the collapse of the USSR

- the publication interprets.

Two out of nine aircraft carriers remained at the Ukrainian shipyard, as they had not yet been built. Of these, the Varyag ready for 68% was rebuilt by China into the modern aircraft carrier Liaoning.

He is considered one of the best of this nine aircraft carriers!

- writes Sohu, regretting that the second aircraft carrier “Ulyanovsk” with a displacement of 80 thousand tons was dismantled in the United States, being ready for 40%.

The construction of nine aircraft carriers became evidence of the power of the former Soviet fleet [...] As a result, only one remained. The rest are sold or dismantled. This suggests that today's Russia is no longer the Soviet Union militarily!

- summarizes the publication.

419 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. neri73-r
        neri73-r 13 September 2019 18: 50
        +8
        Are you jealous? tongue
      2. Rwmos
        Rwmos 13 September 2019 18: 56
        +4
        And about the American yacht there was nothing there? And then the country has the largest public debt on the planet, and they build yachts ... 30% of Americans do not have access to any medical care, they buy luxury planes ... 15% of the US population - about 46 millions - below the poverty line, and them Hollywood parasites mansions are building
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 13 September 2019 19: 06
          +30
          Quote: RWMos
          And then the country has the largest public debt on the planet, and they are building yachts ..

          What a debt? They have a printing press.
          1. Rwmos
            Rwmos 13 September 2019 19: 07
            +5
            Under De Gaulle, they also had a printing press, but De Gaulle demanded gold from the United States, and not candy wrappers.
            1. Shuttle
              Shuttle 13 September 2019 19: 40
              +43
              Quote: RWMos
              Under De Gaulle, they also had a printing press, but De Gaulle demanded gold from the United States, and not candy wrappers.

              Right. Only de Gaulle somehow very quickly had such national problems that he resigned. What is there KiselevTV about coincidence in such cases asks?
              But the Americans, of course, have nothing to do with it. Yeah ....!
              1. PSih2097
                PSih2097 14 September 2019 02: 01
                +7
                Quote: Shuttle
                Only de Gaulle somehow very quickly had such national problems that he resigned.

                and given the number of attempts by the General on the CIA and Mi-6 lines, just after the demand for gold ...
              2. Axel Pervolianinen
                Axel Pervolianinen 14 September 2019 06: 15
                +8
                But he got the gold ... And he survived almost 30 attempts (while he returned the money).
                But the Germans rushed and given them the sums, and not gold ....
              3. Ehanatone
                Ehanatone 15 September 2019 02: 48
                0
                “True. Only de Gaulle had such national problems very quickly that he resigned. What’s there.”
                True, But he returned the gold! ...
            2. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 13 September 2019 20: 28
              +20
              Quote: RWMos
              Under De Gaulle, they also had a printing press, but De Gaulle demanded gold from the United States, not candy wrappers.

              And after that, De Gaulle ceased to be president.
              1. krops777
                krops777 15 September 2019 08: 14
                +1
                And after that, De Gaulle ceased to be president.


                Yes, they immediately found their bulk, Poroshenko, and all kinds of twillies there, but the French de Gaulle did not forget that he was a national hero there, not that some of which after a couple of years you will not remember what they called.
                1. tihonmarine
                  tihonmarine 15 September 2019 16: 34
                  0
                  Quote: krops777
                  Yes, they immediately found their bulk, Poroshenko and all sorts of twillies there

                  Yes, about poro-shvili already forgotten.
              2. Para bellum
                Para bellum 18 September 2019 15: 55
                0
                Yes! Let’s not demand anything from anyone, let him be the president!
            3. Oleg Zorin
              Oleg Zorin 13 September 2019 21: 53
              +13
              You can demand everything. The moon from the sky, gold, Trump's daughter. But the debt will be given to you in what it is nominated for. In dollars. The rest is Wishlist and wet dreams.
            4. NEXUS
              NEXUS 13 September 2019 22: 03
              +27
              Quote: RWMos
              Under De Gaulle, they also had a printing press, but De Gaulle demanded gold from the United States, and not candy wrappers.

              Under De Gaulle, behind every green candy wrapper there was gold, and, if sclerosis doesn’t fail me, after that incident, the dollar was no longer provided with the gold equivalent. So under De Gaulle, there was not a printing press at all, but a denomination of dollars backed by gold. Now the dollar is a stupid paper with promises and assurances.
              1. Axel Pervolianinen
                Axel Pervolianinen 14 September 2019 06: 17
                +5
                Did not have. Only the gold standard was declared. And after de Gaulle’s trick, they abandoned the standard, since candy wrappers unsecured with nothing are better.
              2. tihonmarine
                tihonmarine 14 September 2019 10: 44
                +1
                Quote: NEXUS
                Now the dollar is a stupid paper with promises and assurances.

                So much for the tale of the "almighty dollar".
              3. nikon7717
                nikon7717 14 September 2019 11: 45
                +2
                The actual provision of gold was only when it was a real coin. From the moment the paper was issued, this is no longer real security, but only a receipt
                The word gave the word took. My word. I want to give, I want to take.
                The right of the strong.
                This is similar to how today oil futures on the exchange are not provided with real oil. But they set the price of oil.
          2. Nick
            Nick 14 September 2019 00: 03
            +1
            Quote: tihonmarine
            Quote: RWMos
            And then the country has the largest public debt on the planet, and they are building yachts ..

            What a debt? They have a printing press.

            Well, yes, waste paper also costs money.
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 13 September 2019 19: 07
          +11
          Quote: RWMos
          30% of Americans do not have access to any medical care, they buy luxury planes ... 15% of the US population - about 46 millions - below the poverty line, and they have Hollywood parasites building mansions

          Do we have where to strive?
          1. Svarog
            Svarog 13 September 2019 19: 31
            +32
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Do we have where to strive?

            Of course there is, our Gauleiters are copying the social model of the United States and I’m sure that everything is going to this .. BUT we will, as always, everything will be larger .. and not 30% will not have access to medical care but all 70% ...
            1. tihonmarine
              tihonmarine 14 September 2019 10: 48
              +1
              Quote: Svarog
              our Gauleiters are copying the social model of the United States and I’m sure that everything goes to this ..

              They can strive, but they will not be given. 0,1 percent will receive this benefit, and the rest will be yoked with the tag "slave".
          2. Rwmos
            Rwmos 13 September 2019 19: 33
            -19
            And how...
            Residents of more than thirty states have filed web petitions to secede from the United States. The most popular are the initiatives launched on behalf of residents of Texas, Louisiana, Florida, Alabama and Georgia. Petitions are submitted as part of the "We The People" program, which the Barack Obama administration launched in 2011.

            laughing
            https://lenta.ru/news/2012/11/13/secession/
            BUT we have, as always, everything will larger scale ..

            And here is Nostradamus ... Maps tell the truth))) I wonder why these Nostradamuses are not millionaires - do they know the future? They would play on the stock exchange. or in a casino ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
          3. WIKI
            WIKI 13 September 2019 21: 17
            +18
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            Do we have where to strive?

            We don’t need to go anywhere. We have already caught up with them and surpassed them. According to the poverty level, if we calculate according to the OECD and EU methods, they have poverty 12,3%, and we will have 21,3%, instead of 12,9, according to Rosstat.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 13 September 2019 22: 08
              -9
              Quote: WIKI
              We don’t need to go anywhere. We have already caught up with them and surpassed them. According to the poverty level, if we calculate according to the OECD and EU methods, they have poverty 12,3%, and we will have 21,3%, instead of 12,9, according to Rosstat.

              By training manuals, you continue to read. The concept of wealth and poverty is very vague. Some people have enough 70s in the apartment, and he considers himself okay, and for someone, at least bring the whole room in gold and black caviar every day, there will still be little. So this your nonsense you can tell your children about poverty and wealth, dear. And do not forget to run for another iPhone in 3 in the morning to be at 5 minutes to become one of the owners of the new idiotic gadget, which will replace both your personal life and children and give you a ghostly confidence that you are successful and rich.
              1. WIKI
                WIKI 13 September 2019 22: 51
                +16
                Like a general, but what nonsense he wrote.
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 13 September 2019 22: 57
                  -3
                  Quote: WIKI
                  Like a general, but what nonsense he wrote.

                  You write nonsense, dear. And judging by the touchy answer, I was right. Tell me, how did our grandfathers manage without Ferrari, iPhones, expensive apartments and trips to cheap hotels in Turkey? I’m often asking myself the question myself: could I do what they did in the Second World War? Or do you have human values ​​expressed only in convertible currency?
                  Wealth, young man, that’s not much, but that’s enough.
                  1. WIKI
                    WIKI 13 September 2019 23: 00
                    +23
                    With your imagination, only write novels. I am 64 years old. What the fuck iPhone, Ferrari Turkey.
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 13 September 2019 23: 01
                      -14
                      Quote: WIKI
                      With your imagination, only write novels. I am 64 years old. What the fuck iPhone, Ferrari Turkey.

                      In the 64 of the year I’m going to stop writing such a heresy and consider myself right? fool
                      1. WIKI
                        WIKI 13 September 2019 23: 03
                        +10
                        What is heresy?
                      2. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 13 September 2019 23: 06
                        -13
                        Quote: WIKI
                        What is heresy?

                        In your posts about poverty and wealth. You lived to 64 years, and you still didn’t understand that wealth is a very relative value.
                        And by the way, show me at least one millionaire who would give at least a hundred rubles to a beggar. They are not successful and not rich, they are collectors of banknotes. That is essentially Plyushkiny.
                      3. WIKI
                        WIKI 13 September 2019 23: 12
                        +4
                        Here is a link confirming the numbers of the comment, and here we are. https://www.vedomosti.ru/economics/news/2019/01/31/792902-rosstat-urovnya-bednosti
                      4. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 13 September 2019 23: 15
                        -14
                        Quote: WIKI
                        Here is a link confirming the numbers of the comment, and here we are. https://www.vedomosti.ru/economics/news/2019/01/31/792902-rosstat-urovnya-bednosti

                        I repeat, you show these links to your children, and not to me. And for me there’s nothing to talk about with you. 64 years to live and write such heresy ... well, God be divine, ...
                      5. WIKI
                        WIKI 14 September 2019 00: 42
                        +10
                        I repeat once again. Where is the heresy in my comment? Only without demagoguery.
                      6. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 14 September 2019 00: 44
                        -12
                        Quote: WIKI
                        I repeat once again. Where is the heresy in my comment? Only without demagoguery.

                        .We have already caught up with and surpassed them. According to the poverty level, if we calculate according to the OECD and EU methods, they have poverty 12,3%, and we will have 21,3%, instead of 12,9, according to Rosstat.

                        Poor you poor. Can you give money?
                      7. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 14 September 2019 05: 13
                        -6
                        Quote: NEXUS
                        64 years to live and write such heresy

                        Old school. The USSR was also whining about how to live badly ... True, then many of the whiners regretted it very much.
              2. Ross xnumx
                Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 03: 31
                +28
                Quote: NEXUS
                The concept of wealth and poverty is very vague.

                I’ll collect it especially for you. The concept of poverty in Russia is when per capita income is below the subsistence level. In 2019, it was installed - for pensioners - 8583 rubles; for children - 10390 rubles; for the able-bodied population - 11280 rubles; per capita - 10444 rubles ...
                Payment of a 2-room apartment in our city - 2 400-2 800 rubles. If you subtract this payment from the subsistence minimum, it will remain 8-9 thousand. Have you tried to live on 300 rubles a day?
                You know very well how poverty criteria are defined. Why are you turning in front of us here? Before us, who are ashamed of poverty because the state has stopped paying decent pensions and salaries ... Do you think it will be counted?
                As for gadgets, we have already grown up from an age when people do not understand that they need to live not in public, but in good conscience.
                hi
              3. Doctor
                Doctor 14 September 2019 06: 59
                +5
                By training manuals, you continue to read. The concept of wealth and poverty is very vague.

                Blurry. However, the calculation criteria should be the same. And so you can take a ruler, in which our centimeter will be like 2 of them and measure. Of course, we will be the longest.
                1. litus
                  litus 14 September 2019 14: 07
                  +3
                  If 2 of them are against one of ours, then on the contrary it will be shorter
                  1. Doctor
                    Doctor 14 September 2019 17: 08
                    +3
                    If 2 of them are against one of ours, then on the contrary it will be shorter

                    Yes, I made a mistake. See how much depends on the line bully
              4. Spring fluff
                Spring fluff 14 September 2019 21: 52
                +2
                When talking about the poverty line in the US or Europe, it would be nice to specify what it is. I was not in the USA, so I decided to search the Internet. Here is such information: https://zen.yandex.ru/media/crisis/cherta-bednosti-v-ssha-kogo-v-amerike-schitaiut-niscim-5bbf87ffc6f3c100ad4762c8
                Poverty is if more than 15% of expenses are spent on products. Accordingly, for a lone brow it is 1 thousand dollars per month.
                As far as I remember, with an income of less than 2,5 thousand dollars per month, the United States is considered to be poor and income tax is not levied on it
        3. Flanker27
          Flanker27 13 September 2019 19: 22
          +14
          And why are you silent about Abramovich’s yacht. They stole everything. And there is no fleet. And the pilots are running
        4. The comment was deleted.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 14 September 2019 05: 15
            0
            Quote: Ilya Melnov
            understand the question like a pig in oranges

            That you are self-critical.
            https://www.interfax.ru/business/207793
        5. Leeds
          Leeds 13 September 2019 19: 59
          +14
          “About 46 millions - below the poverty line”
          I propose to URGENTLY raise the issue of sending humanitarian aid to the United States on board the Emergency Situations Ministry, and according to the First, not to collect children’s sms for operations, but to throw a cry for collecting cast-offs for Americans dying of hunger and cold.

          (Maximum repost)
          1. Rwmos
            Rwmos 13 September 2019 20: 09
            -3
            Late -
            MOSCOW, 12 Aug - RIA Novosti, Maxim Rubchenko. The UN Special Representative for Poverty and Human Rights, Philip Alston, presented a report according to which about 40 million Americans live in poverty, 18,5 million live in extreme poverty, and 5,3 million live in absolute poverty, which is typical of the most backward countries of the Third World.
            1. Ilya Melnov
              Ilya Melnov 13 September 2019 20: 27
              +6
              Quote: RWMos
              Late -
              MOSCOW, 12 Aug - RIA Novosti, Maxim Rubchenko. The UN Special Representative for Poverty and Human Rights, Philip Alston, presented a report according to which about 40 million Americans live in poverty, 18,5 million live in extreme poverty, and 5,3 million live in absolute poverty, which is typical of the most backward countries of the Third World.

              outright! And you ask yourself why the pro-Kremlin propaganda does not publish the updated information, or rather, what is the "poverty line" according to American law? And for comparison, on the territory of the Russian Federation?
              1. Rwmos
                Rwmos 13 September 2019 20: 30
                -10
                Because it’s enough how pro-Washington propaganda lies about the fact that they are ahead of the rest ... And they aren’t caught by propagandists, but by senior UN officials with figures and facts. And here you have the purest unfounded propaganda - you have nothing to confirm it
              2. Xenofont
                Xenofont 13 September 2019 21: 40
                +18
                A fruitless discussion about poverty in the world! Here Gorbachev's hunger of the late 80's gave birth to a sarcastic dialogue:
                -In America, blacks do not eat up!
                “And can you send all that Negroes send us?”
          2. region58
            region58 14 September 2019 19: 29
            -1
            Quote: Leeds
            starving and cold Americans.

            And connect Greenpeace ... otherwise they ate all the birds, you know ... wassat
        6. Egor53
          Egor53 13 September 2019 20: 35
          +7
          It should also be added that 14% of adult Americans do not know how to read and write, at the level of ignorance of the alphabet. This is according to official UN data, in reality this figure is more than 20%.
          1. sabotage
            sabotage 13 September 2019 20: 44
            +30
            Quote: Egor53
            It should also be added that 14% of adult Americans do not know how to read and write, at the level of ignorance of the alphabet. This is according to official UN data, in reality this figure is more than 20%.

            Well, okay, our senators do not know the language.
          2. karabass
            karabass 13 September 2019 21: 14
            +7
            And also from the USA there is a brain drain, people flee to other countries, unworthy salaries, oligarchs and deputies
            1. Rwmos
              Rwmos 13 September 2019 21: 40
              -7
              Well, so that from the US there was a brain drain. first they need to get their brains. From there, so far there is only a leak of Boris Johnson and real production. In addition to commercials in the United States have not produced anything for a long time.
              And so, they still have a new misfortune there - they are fighting against the sexual exploitation of cows.
              https://ria.ru/20190912/1558584132.html

              ... with the matyugalnik, it’s a senator and a presidential candidate. And she is dumber than Sobchak and Sable combined.
              And even more fun, as the other day homosexuals in Boston with komunyakami grappled)))
          3. LON
            LON 13 September 2019 22: 46
            +7
            Quote: Egor53
            It’s also worth adding that 14% of adult Americans don’t know how to read and write,

            Another propaganda heard enough. Give a link to the UN. In America, 9 million people do not understand English at all. This is not because they are stupid, but because 34 million Mexicans live in the country. More than 28 million people speak Spanish, without which Florida, Texas and California can not accept work. About 900 thousand communicate in Russian. Mexicans in the southern states who read Spanish fluently, Russians from Brighton Beach who write in Russian, Indians from reservations who know their language. And perhaps for such categories of people, the fact that they do not know how to read English is not so critical.
            1. Axel Pervolianinen
              Axel Pervolianinen 14 September 2019 06: 27
              0
              Unfortunately, this is not propaganda .... Many of our friends who went to study for exchange in higher educational institutions speak of a very low level of general education .... Humorous "sketches" that Americans are sure that we always have snow and bears walk the streets - it's true. One friend was just asked a question, are you very cold in winter ????
              1. LON
                LON 14 September 2019 23: 41
                0
                One more seen enough. Here is the evidence for you that the level of education in different countries is not graded on the OBS scale, as you reason. PISA (Program for International Student Assessment) is an international comparative study of the quality of education, which assesses the knowledge and skills of schoolchildren at the age of 15 years. It, first of all, assesses the ability of students to be guided common sense and logic when performing non-standard tasks. In this regard, we can say that PISA is following modern educational trends, because the ability of students to apply school knowledge in life is the most important aspect of functional literacy and skills of the XNUMXst century. " https://fioco.ru/results_pisa_2015
          4. Ross xnumx
            Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 03: 46
            +6
            Quote: Egor53
            It should also be added that 14% of adult Americans do not know how to read and write

            Bah! Yes, we also got a handicap. Not only that in Russia, some students can not show on the map the city where the Battle of Stalingrad took place and ceased to understand the indefinite form of the perfect and imperfect verb (like adults), do you still have to forget the letters? belay
        7. WIKI
          WIKI 13 September 2019 21: 09
          +12
          Quote: RWMos
          US population - about 46 million - below the poverty line
          If we compare the poverty rate of Russia 12,9%, the United States 12,3%. It seems the numbers are the same. Only these figures are calculated in different ways. "In the OECD and EU countries, an alternative concept is used - relative poverty, in which incomes are measured against their median value. Disposable income is used as a threshold, which is 60% of the national median income. If Russia switched to such a measurement system, the poverty level would increase would be up to 21,3%. " Therefore, there is no need to emphasize that they have more poor people than we do.
          1. GibSoN
            GibSoN 13 September 2019 22: 16
            +2
            Therefore, it is not necessary to emphasize that they have more poor than ours.
            And to everyone who tried to communicate with the author of this post above. No need to feed the trolls, especially those on the payroll. Obviously the same. Read his comments on various topics and pay attention to the degree of preparation and argumentation of the answers. In general, your business.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 13 September 2019 23: 10
              0
              Powerfully the Chinese threw on a fan))
        8. dmitrii1885
          dmitrii1885 13 September 2019 23: 45
          +3
          So we are talking about the USSR and their Navy. What the hell to drag here the United States. sweeps or what?
        9. sagitch
          sagitch 14 September 2019 03: 36
          +7
          About medical care, the poor are like in Russia. And the Hollywood "parasites" - they EARNED for the mansions (though they did, they did), but Russia - the real parasites who robbed the state and its people.
        10. signifera
          signifera 14 September 2019 07: 17
          0
          I sympathize with the Americans. And they to us? We have a percentage of the lack of medical care will be higher, and the one that is is very ineffective. Only in a private clinic for serious money can you heal. And not everyone has this money. Officials and businessmen do not buy planes and yachts from us? How many millions do we have below the poverty line? Only our trait is much lower than the American one, their poor man lives better than ours. Yes, and on the mansions we do not really give in, if we give in. Probably, it’s not a public debt))) and they are not very worried about him. Well, I wouldn’t be worried about a huge public debt, if our economy were at least half American, and the standard of living was the same, half would be enough laughing
        11. Looking for
          Looking for 14 September 2019 13: 59
          -2
          well, if something happens, they will go to war with Russia and on modern weapons. and you will hide in the forests from the call. and those. few. who will go to war. will be on the old to fight. because you lost everything. that made you Russian. . "Russians" You have betrayed the Russian Donbass. You are being slaughtered by the Gentiles. and you "lisp" with the liberals and look in the ass of all who are not lazy-Americans. Evropeytsam.
          1. Saul_Rhen
            Saul_Rhen 14 September 2019 23: 55
            -1
            Why is your stream of consciousness here? Minus
      3. Bossota
        Bossota 13 September 2019 19: 12
        +5
        But wasn’t it easier to give a link to the information than to clutter the VO?
    2. neri73-r
      neri73-r 13 September 2019 18: 40
      +13
      The article was written in military style degenerate - the goat has four legs, so the pig grunts! hi
      1. Nycomed
        Nycomed 13 September 2019 18: 49
        -9
        That's right, heaped everything together! So delicious! tongue
    3. VVAUSH
      VVAUSH 13 September 2019 18: 44
      +4
      And who is to blame? Drowned Dock?
    4. Kontrik
      Kontrik 13 September 2019 18: 45
      -30
      Quote: Designer 68
      Svarog will appear an hour later and for 100500 comments will open the discussion that everything is gone, Putin is to blame. That's all you need to know. Amen

      Pension is small and generally raised the retirement age ... bully
      And if you stop the production of missiles and ships, then how many pensioners could be saved from starvation ... hehe ..
      That's the whole answer to the Chinese Svarog, you’ll answer everything .. The Chinese contact him! (Joke, but with a hint ..)
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad 13 September 2019 19: 16
        +14
        Quote: Kontrik
        And if you stop the production of rockets and ships, then how many pensioners could be saved from starvation ... hehe.


        and if socialism is returned, then it would be possible to rivet aircraft carriers faster than China and at the same time lower the retirement age.
        As for the Chinese, let them change their financial system, carry out privatization, and then not only will the aircraft carriers build, but even there will be nothing to feed them with their population.
        1. AU Ivanov.
          AU Ivanov. 13 September 2019 19: 28
          -8
          And at the same time amicably stand in line for sausage and other goods.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 13 September 2019 19: 31
            +3
            Quote: AS Ivanov.
            And at the same time amicably stand in line for sausage

            Four. Who lacked the sausage .. crying
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 13 September 2019 19: 58
              -10
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: AS Ivanov.
              And at the same time amicably stand in line for sausage

              Four. Who lacked the sausage .. crying

              hi Yes, she was not at all! Meat by coupons, butter by coupons, milk by appointment, Refrigerator by turn after two or three years. Good color TV by recording. Queue for years. On free sale only black and white records .. Phone on the bluat. hi . Maybe you were sitting on the distribution of goods .. Commodity expert! feel fellow Then, yes ... Like cheese in butter ... .. laughing
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 13 September 2019 20: 07
                +8
                Quote: 30 vis
                but she was not at all! Meat by coupons, butter by coupons, milk by appointment, Refrigerator by turns after two or three years. Good color TV by recording. Queue for years. On free sale only black and white records .. Phone on the bluat.

                Take turns
                They drank milk ...
                Quote: 30 vis
                Good color TV for recording. Queue for years. On free sale

                Oops! We stood in the store freely.
                1. Town Hall
                  Town Hall 13 September 2019 20: 12
                  -4
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Oops! We stood in the store freely

                  At a price of 800 re for salaries 120 / 150
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 13 September 2019 20: 21
                    0
                    Quote: Town Hall
                    about the price of xnum re

                    And how to evaluate? Well, I got a platoon at 95
                  2. lopvlad
                    lopvlad 14 September 2019 00: 40
                    +5
                    Quote: Town Hall
                    At a price of 800 re


                    well, tvs were not cheap at that time around the world, and even in the USA, color tvs could not afford the price. The truth was, it cost not 80 re but a little more than 600 re. It’s certainly expensive, but for example the same harvester at the end of summer I received 2000 - 2500 rubles, and a teacher with experience working at full time received 300 rubles a month, and you could buy it by installments without any interest. Again, if you got your hands from where you grow on the same covens, you could raise real money and no one demanded that you unfasten the state with this money.
                    1. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 14 September 2019 01: 29
                      0
                      In my opinion, brigades of otkhodniks, "shabashniks" paid some kind of income tax.
                      1. lopvlad
                        lopvlad 14 September 2019 01: 39
                        +6
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        some kind of income tax was paid


                        paid nothing. The entire amount for which I agreed with the owner went completely in your pocket.
                        In the USSR, they did not fight with the working people, but only with speculators of the products of other people's labor. In modern Russia, usurers and speculators are given state support and three skins are torn off the working people.
                      2. IgorIP
                        IgorIP 14 September 2019 04: 04
                        -1
                        Yeah ... you probably don’t know what the phrase “struggle against unearned income” meant in the USSR. When the whole team could be requested to be copied, all the tools and money should be taken away. Simple so, for which they tried to earn even a little bit. So in the USSR they did not fight with the “working people”. So leave this crap about the fabulous conditions in the country of the Soviets.
                      3. free
                        free 14 September 2019 06: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: IgorIP
                        Yeah ... you probably don’t know what the phrase “struggle against unearned income” meant in the USSR. When the whole team could be requested to be copied, all the tools and money should be taken away. Simple so, for which they tried to earn even a little bit. So in the USSR they did not fight with the “working people”. So leave this crap about the fabulous conditions in the country of the Soviets.


                        So you call to leave everything as it is? Are you one of those that crouched at the trough in a single rush?
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 07: 25
                        -2
                        Quote: IgorIP
                        When the whole team could be requested to be copied, all the tools and money should be taken away. Simple so, for which they tried to earn even a little bit.

                        Are you talking about shabashnikov, or what?
                      5. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 14: 27
                        +2
                        Obviously, about unofficial "shabashniki". Nobody touched the "Shabashnikov" who made contracts with enterprises, collective farms, state farms. It was possible to earn good money by Soviet standards. For city dwellers, it was a way to earn extra money, most often while on vacation. And for the inhabitants of the regions with a surplus of labor (Transcaucasia, the North Caucasus, Zakapatya, Bukovina, Volhynia), this was often the main labor activity. Central Asia was also abundant in labor. But, unlike Caucasians and Ukrainians, Central Asians did not differ in particular mobility in Soviet times, so there were relatively few of them in the brigades of migrant workers.
                      6. Sofievka
                        Sofievka 16 September 2019 14: 25
                        +1
                        I would like to remember about student brigades, in Surgut they built a road, a thousand and a half in a month and a half, back and forth by Aeroflot, I will not say anything about hungry youth, in the army they ate buckwheat every other day
                      7. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 14: 23
                        +1
                        This struggle was in the nature of periodic campaigns. But actually the brigades of migrants officially existed, and their activities were not considered unearned. The main thing is that all documents are correctly and officially executed.
                      8. region58
                        region58 14 September 2019 20: 28
                        +2
                        Quote: IgorIP
                        what did the phrase “struggle with unearned income” mean in the USSR

                        By and large, in this way they fought against speculators and thieves. All other types of earnings could be formalized by law. There were, of course, "excesses on the ground" - as without it ... However, there was much to complain about.
                        Quote: IgorIP
                        leave this crap about the fabulous conditions in the country of the Soviets

                        There was no fairy tale. It was a past. The country is large, it happened in different ways, one thing I can say for sure - they certainly would not have been allowed to die under the fence. hi
                      9. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 14: 21
                        0
                        My father worked as a director of a state farm and quite formally entered into civil contracts on the performance of work on the construction and repair of farms and other facilities, repair of grain flow, etc. with brigades of migrant workers from the Caucasus, from Transcarpathia. There were also Russian brigades, mostly factory engineers, technicians, workers and even administrative workers who worked part-time during their holidays. Or contracts were concluded with teams from Volyn and Chernivtsi region on weeding sugar beet. And these contracts were checked by the regulatory authorities. You, obviously, are talking about "other, unofficial" shabashki ", when services were provided by some private individuals to other individuals. But in general," shabashniks "were usually called workers of the brigades who worked under contracts in collective and state farms, on other objects. artel labor activity.
                        In principle, "shabashniki" can be called some figures of cinema and variety art, who in the 60s-80s. officially worked under one-time contracts, paid tax, and at the same time did not work under the Labor Code on a permanent job in theaters or at film studios. So, for example, the actor Mikhail Nozhkin made a living.
                    2. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 14 September 2019 07: 43
                      +2
                      Quote: lopvlad
                      a harvester at the end of the summer received 2000 - 2500 rubles and a teacher with full-time experience received 300 rubles a month,

                      Do not tell anyone these tales.
                      1. Nycomed
                        Nycomed 14 September 2019 08: 33
                        -1
                        In fact, these are not quite tales. On the collective farm, combine harvesters, tractor-machine operators during sowing and harvesting could well earn 2000r / month. True, they plowed at this time, almost around the clock, and ate and slept in the field. But the rest of the time - З / П 120р / мес. and repair of equipment. I’ll also say about teachers: my Mom worked as a teacher, but for some reason they were not enough and I had to take 1,5 bids, or even all 2, plus a cool teacher. She received 300-350 r / month. A vacation to 1200r. The teachers had a long vacation, at least 48 days. But, at the same time, she left for work (to school) by 8 a.m. and returned after 7 p.m., on one day off (Sunday), and even then, not always, because class teachers obliged her to go somewhere with her class (movies, exhibitions, theaters, trips, etc.) so that she simply slept for 2 hours every day for the first 16 weeks of her vacation.
                      2. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 08: 43
                        +4
                        Quote: Nycomed
                        In fact, these are not quite tales. On the collective farm, combine harvesters, tractor-mechanics during sowing and harvesting could well earn 2000r / month

                        Listen. Why are you writing this? I can understand 200/300 rubles. Indeed, they raised such money a month. But that would be 2000 for a month of work ... the combine has a day (even if you fantasize that the month did not sleep at all) - also 24 hours per day. Adults like people damn it.
                      3. Nycomed
                        Nycomed 14 September 2019 08: 59
                        -1
                        What I witnessed in the 80s, I write about that.
                      4. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 14: 51
                        +1
                        There was a different form of remuneration, which depended directly on both working time and the quantity of threshed grain. It was considered a good way to make a job as a combine harvester for the harvesting period. Not only full-time tractor drivers worked on combines, but also teachers and others during the holidays. Some employees of enterprises and institutions from district centers, even at the time of the harvest, took leave at their own expense. Lack of payment at the main job was compensated by earnings at the harvest. Naturally, if these people had the appropriate clearance. By the way, there were also beet harvesters. About 2 thousand. Not sure, but 800-1000 rubles. making money was quite real. Plus, you could get grain at the expense of payment. And many teenagers moonlighted as assistants to combine operators. They, of course, were paid much less, but all the same for the teenagers the amounts were not bad. Another form of part-time job is working on current. Both teenagers and pensioners were engaged in it.
                      5. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 14: 36
                        0
                        These are not tales. My father at the state farm had an advanced tractor driver who worked on an energy-saturated tractor K-701. Together with bonuses, his monthly salary ranged from 500 to 800 rubles, which in the first half of the 80s. it was good money. The farm director had a lower salary. Well-earned truck crane operators. Their official salary was also high, and they had the opportunity to work informally. In rural areas, these truck cranes felt their importance, this was noticeable from the behavior.) As for teacher salaries, it seems to me that they were still less than 300 rubles. Not in vain during the discussion of the school reform of 1984, much was said about the increase in the prestige of teacher work, and the increase in teacher salaries. And it was said openly, even before the start of restructuring and publicity. So the problem existed. In my opinion, in the region of 300 rubles, a teacher could receive a month rather in the late 80s and early 90s. But then, Soviet rubles began to depreciate.
                      6. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 15: 32
                        0
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        Together with bonuses, his monthly salary ranged from 500 to 800 rubles, which in the first half of the 80s. it was good money.

                        For that period it was crazy money. Neither academics, nor astronauts, nor generals, nor top party officials received such money. If you claim that the state farm tractor driver received such amounts, I can only shrug
                      7. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 57
                        +1
                        The best tractor driver of the region, an advanced worker who worked on the K-701 tractor. He died then tragically. But, as Kanevsky says, this is another story.
                        My relatives worked in the mines of Donbass, in the North (Pevek and Magadan), including in the gold mining artel. Salaries were comparable to the salary of this tractor driver. Which, I emphasize, was an editorial, plus this is the sum of his solid salary and monthly and annual bonuses. As far as I know, he received 800 rubles once a year, in the remaining months 500 rubles. plus or minus 50 rubles. Most of his colleagues received, of course, more modest amounts. Well, and so, on state farms, wages have always been higher compared to collective farms.
                        By the way, the director of the farm in the mid-80s. for the successes of his farm, he could also receive a very good one-time bonus for an order for an agricultural association. From 500 to 1500 rubles. Moreover, the salary was not the smallest by rural standards.
                      8. Nycomed
                        Nycomed 14 September 2019 20: 34
                        -3
                        A worker specializing in exploration and production drilling for oil and gas in the 80s earned an average of 550-700 rubles per month, an assistant driller - at least 350 rubles per month. And this is on the "Big Land", and in the Far North, taking into account the regional coefficient - 70% and with all the "polar" + another 80%, the salary reached 1500-2000r / month. I just started working as a "pombour" at the age of 20, my first salary was 330 rubles. My father, at the same time, while working as a chief project engineer at one plant, received 280r / month.
                      9. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 21: 10
                        -2
                        Writing "in the 80s" is nonsense. 81st and 89th are two different eras for the Soviet economy. I will repeat. Years like this, a galloping increase in salaries began by 88th. Only it was no longer real money and candy wrappers were nothing secured.Inflation in a dying ekonomika.i seriously consider those salaries, project them onto the "real ussr" and present them as a fact is (self) deception.
                        Secondly, in the USSR it was possible to find some special cases or "narrow" specialties that, in special conditions - the extreme north, shifts, irregular working hours, etc. - earned a lot. But these "scanty" exceptions in the scale of the 280 million population do not affect nothing to the real situation of 90% of the population who were interrupted by salaries in the range of 80-150 re
                      10. Nycomed
                        Nycomed 14 September 2019 22: 10
                        -1
                        "Galloping salary growth" began in 1991. and not before. Only then did the tariff scales change. And there was an increase in wages in all areas of the then "national" economy. And to "interrupt" or not, it was a personal matter for everyone. For example, I didn't want to go to the factory every day for 220-250 rubles. and went to the oilmen. The work is much harder, but the money is good, and besides, there is a shift: you work for 4 days, and you don't work for 4 days. And not any working Saturdays, subbotniks, no one drives you to any demonstrations, there are no Komsomol and trade union meetings. Lafa, in a word, just stick like the damned and that's it, but there is a reason. A 120-150r. I got it at the age of 17, as soon as after graduation I got a job at a factory as an apprentice of a turner.
                  3. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 07: 36
                    0
                    Quote: Town Hall
                    At a price of 800 re for salaries 120 / 150

                    I have a dad - a locksmith, 250 received, a new TV (Horizon) calmly bought. And how much was Japanese? In the middle of the 90's, Sharpe bought for a million eight hundred and fifty, so my mother received 20 thousand at that time.
                    1. Town Hall
                      Town Hall 14 September 2019 07: 41
                      +3
                      But my dad, the builder on the collective farm received 70 re. And half of the population of the USSR who worked in the village received so much. 3 p 20 kopecks for a working day they paid.
                      1. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 07: 49
                        -2
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        And I have Dad the builder on the collective farm 70 re

                        Here it is not necessary to lie. APO Novomoskovsk, all 80 went to Starodubtsev’s economy. The 350 combiners were paid.
                      2. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 08: 02
                        +1
                        Was there a collective farm of continuous combine harvesters? Or klmbayner-10 people from hundreds and thousands of workers on the farm? . And how many months a year have these mind-blowing combiners received? Or harvesting in the suburbs-12 months a year? How much the combine harvester received the remaining 11 months? And so that 1 month in a year the combine harvester would receive a salary for which it would be possible to buy 1/3 of a color TV that broke in two weeks and then regularly carry it on the bedspread to the telemaster — he had to work that month when the harvest was 24 hours a day.
                      3. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 08: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        How much did the combine harvester receive the remaining 11 months?

                        Two hundred each. I speak for APO Novomoskovskoe.
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        which broke in two weeks

                        The horizon was bought in the year by the 85, in the 94 the uncle was given. Over 9 years it broke once, even though it was used both in the tail and in the mane. The same Sharp broke for 10 years once.
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Was there a collective farm of continuous combine harvesters?

                        No, however. When we went to apples, we received for fifty dollars in two weeks. wink And on potatoes in general for free. Well, a bucket of potatoes was taken away with them on the day.
                      4. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 08: 20
                        +2
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Two hundred each. I speak for APO "Novomoskovskoe

                        Let's not. 11 months a year, this mythical oligarch combiner who, in mythology about the Soviet past, raised his salary as an academician or commander of a nuclear submarine, an ordinary tractor driver with a salary of 80/90 re. All in oil and fuel oil).
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        Horizon bought in the 85th year, in the 94th uncle gave. For 9 years, broke once

                        Yes yes yes. The Soviet color TV is still a miracle of technology. After a couple of months of operation, the entire screen is either blue or green).
                      5. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 08: 28
                        0
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        ordinary tractor driver on a salary of 80 / 90 re. All in oil and fuel oil).

                        Do not zvizdit. Maybe you got 80-90, but in our 86 year we got two hundred.
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Soviet color TV is still a miracle of technology. After a couple of months of operation, the entire screen is either blue or green).

                        Again. When I bought a video camera in 94 and Sharp's TV set, I decided to compare. They were no different in quality. "Universal soldier" stuck. Didn't there be a remote control, I hesitated to stick a fishing rod over the buttons and shoot from the air.
                      6. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 08: 38
                        0
                        Watch out for expressions. This is first. Secondly, what is the state of equality if for the same work on one collective farm a person gets 70 re and in another 200?) Even with the wildest capitalism you won’t find such chaos
                      7. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 09: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Watch out for expressions.

                        C'mon, don't be offended.
                        Quote: Town Hall
                        Secondly, what kind of state of equal rights is it if for one and the same job a person receives 70 re and in another-200?) Even with the wildest capitalism you won’t find such chaos

                        Oh la! Even as we find. I worked in a construction site in the middle of zero in Moscow. Muscovites were paid 20 thousand, 15 for us, and 10 for Uzbeks. For the same job. feel
                        And now. My sister, a nurse, receives 18 thousand, and my aunt in Moscow, a nurse, receives 80 thousand.
                        How to object?
                      8. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 14 September 2019 09: 19
                        0
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        My sister, a nurse, receives 18 thousand, and my aunt in Moscow, a nurse, receives 80 thousand.
                        How to object?

                        1. There are different nurses. Aunt, IMHO, higher qualifications.
                        2. In Moscow, only one road to work "eat" five a month, maybe you do not know? I know from myself - it's easy request
                        3. ... (continue the sequence). It’s not bad to live in Moscow (I don’t know. I haven’t tried it. I live ... nearby), but it’s very expensive ...
                      9. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 09: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        Aunt, IMHO, higher qualifications.

                        Yes figs.
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        In Moscow, only one road to work "eat" five a month, maybe you do not know?

                        I know. 850 rubles ticket from us is on the bus. Against 4 ruble 25 cents on a train to the USSR. Often walked, hung out ... laughing
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        but - very expensive ...

                        Yeah, I somehow compared the housing and communal services in Moscow and here. And a little added. It turns out that for many items our prices are higher than in Moscow.
                      10. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 00
                        0
                        Multiply 4,25 by 200 (the approximate exchange rate of the Soviet ruble to the Russian 1: 200) and get the same 850.
                      11. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 10: 04
                        -2
                        Quote: AS Ivanov.
                        Multiply 4,25 by 200 (the approximate exchange rate of the Soviet ruble to the Russian 1: 200) and get the same 850.

                        The scholarship in my techie today is 820 rubles. I received 30 plus food coupons - 15 rubles. Will we continue to compare?
                      12. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 09
                        +1
                        In my bursa, the scholarship was 45 rubles. Now - 10000. You can compare.
                      13. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 10: 18
                        -1
                        Quote: AS Ivanov.
                        Now is 10000.

                        Is everyone getting paid?
                        And then my niece is constantly extorting money. She receives one scholarship, all other neighbors in 90 thousand pay. In year.
                      14. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 03
                        +2
                        If you live in Moscow in a residential area, in an ordinary typical house, and visit ordinary shops, then the cost of food, for example, is not higher than in the provinces.
                      15. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 01
                        +1
                        Under Stalin, the difference was even greater, with the system of workdays. An advanced worker on a lagging collective farm could receive several times less inferior worker on an advanced collective farm. Because both individual indicators and indicators of the whole economy were taken into account. The principle of collective solidarity. After the cancellation of workdays, under Brezhnev, the size of the difference decreased. But, nevertheless, in different collective farms the payment for the same labor was very different, although there was a guaranteed minimum. But on state farms, wages were unified. The salaries are the same, but in advanced state farms they paid a higher bonus in addition to the salary. But in the lagging state farm at times there could be no prize at all.
                      16. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 15: 39
                        +1
                        I'm afraid that you have very vague ideas about the wage system under Brezhnev or under Stalin. You describe some kind of fantastic system in which there were some "individual" indicators ... are you sure about the USSR and socialism?)
                      17. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 16: 29
                        +1
                        Yes, the son and relative of both managers and ordinary farm workers do not understand the wage system in agriculture during the Soviet period.) I try to objectively assess the situation. For example, I do not hide that my grandmother received a pension of 8, and then 12 rubles for a long time. Because a collective farmer, in the first place. And secondly, because she raised seven children and therefore had a short working experience.
                        Don't you know anything about the workday system? Every collective farmer until the mid-60s. had to work out a certain number of workdays, "sticks", as they were called. It was impossible below a certain minimum. A production leader could sometimes earn two or three workdays a day. And sometimes, if the work was low-intensity, or there were complaints about the quality of the work, the collective farmer could get one workday for two or three days of work. At the end of the year, the number of workdays for each collective farmer was summed up. The one who, for example, had one and a half times more workdays than a neighbor, and received one and a half times more in cash and in the form of payment in kind. But payment for workdays was made from the profits of the collective farm. A millionaire collective farm could give out more money and payment in kind for one workday, one and a half to two times more than the "middle peasant" collective farm (of which there were a majority) and several times more in comparison with the lagging collective farm. That is, the collective farmer's income depended both on the number of workdays he had and on the fullness of one workday. Therefore, the average worker on a strong collective farm could receive much more than a leader on a lagging farm. The latter could have had a lot of workdays, but they were poorly provided. This system began to be modernized under Khrushchev, when the monthly advance payments to collective farmers were introduced, which is very small. And under Brezhnev, in the mid-60s, the workday system was abolished, replacing it with a guaranteed monthly wage (with an optional bonus to the best collective farmers) plus annual remuneration. The system of workdays has survived in individual collective farms, which is interesting, in the most advanced ones. In state farms, both under Stalin and under subsequent leaders, there was a guaranteed monthly wage, with the possibility of bonuses. And it largely depended on the individual achievements of the state farm worker. That is, a good tractor driver in both unprofitable and advanced state farms received the same salary. With good individual indicators, both of them could receive an award. True, in an advanced state farm the prize could be much higher. That is, there was some dependence on the results of the work of the state farm as a whole. The situation was the same at industrial enterprises.
                        When in the 70-80s. They began to propagate the brigade contract with its labor participation coefficient (KTU) and the dependence of wages both on individual results and on the results of the brigade's work as a whole, but at a new level, although this was not advertised, they used the idea of ​​previous collective farm workdays in a modernized and complicated version .
                        On the contrary, I am surprised that you do not know the generally known, in my opinion, facts about the wage system on collective farms. After all, much was said about problems in this area in Soviet journalism. For example, in the early 50s. in the famous artistic and publicistic "District weekdays" Ovechkin.
                      18. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 16: 40
                        +2
                        It is clear. Another theoretician of the Soviet collective farm of a bright past. I wish you to work for the collective farm workdays and then talk. If you do not die of hunger)
                      19. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 17: 20
                        +1
                        I do not say anything about the bright past. For the most part, collective farmers until the beginning of the 50s. lived very poorly. From the beginning of the 50s to the mid-60s it was simply poor but still better. I judge this even from photographs of my relatives. But some lived very poorly, others simply poorly, and some were a little better. There were those who lived well then, but there were a minority. Since the mid 60's. most collective farmers began to live tolerably, and some were quite prosperous. And the share of the well-to-do in the 70-80s was constantly growing. Moreover, a lot depended on the region of residence, and on the business qualities of the local party-Soviet authorities, on the management of farms. Don't you get it? I just explained to you the essence of the workdays system.
                        And yes, I have most of my relatives (both my mother and father are from large rural families, though they themselves did not continue this tradition, limiting myself to my sister) still live in the countryside.
                        I think it’s time to stop the discussion on this issue in this thread.) I'm afraid that the site’s moderators will complain to me about lengthy comments that have nothing to do with 9 aircraft carriers of the USSR.)
                      20. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 17: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        I just explained to you the essence of the workdays system.

                        The essence of the workdays system is slave free labor for food. As long as it existed:
                        Quote: Sergej1972
                        For the most part, collective farmers until the beginning of the 50s. lived very poorly

                        And you are trying to present it as the basis of some incredible salaries of tractor drivers) hi
                      21. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 17: 50
                        0
                        I do not protect the workdays system. Although in gold mining cooperatives it was used with success until recently. Or maybe they’re using it now. The salary of a state farm (not collective farm) tractor driver, the best in the area, exemplary, activist, taking into account all the bonuses. Such, of course, were a minority, but they were. What does the system of workdays have to do with it that has never been used on state farms? Read carefully.
                        Taking into account the post-war devastation, taking into account the priority development of heavy industry to the detriment of agriculture and the light and food industries, with the level of mandatory state deliveries established for collective farms, with the level of payment for MTS services by collective farms, and even taking into account mandatory in-kind supplies from each collective farm yard, and even taking into account the taxation of fruit trees, collective farmers for the most part in the early 50's. they had to live poorly, with a system of workdays, with piecework, with time, and with any other.)) And with normal financing of agriculture, with a tax burden, with a normal material and technical base, with developed infrastructure, collective farmers and with a system of workdays, they would live well.
                      22. Sofievka
                        Sofievka 16 September 2019 14: 45
                        +1
                        1986 - foreman, salary 160, at the end of the year, 3600 + apples 3-4 tons came out on the earned ruble, in the spring he took it to the miners, salary in the brigade 150-200, machine operators-200, the combine operators are always honored and respected, a new car, carpets , TVs, vouchers, but hard work, the deputy of the harvesting detachment worked, like a "battle for the harvest"
                      23. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 14: 56
                        +1
                        I don’t know where you come from. It seems to me, judging by the nickname, that of Moldova. In the late 70s and early 80s, teams of migrants from Moldova, Transcarpathia, Transcaucasia and the North Caucasus came to the regions of Central Russia. They were engaged in the construction of rural infrastructure, concluded contracts with the boards of collective farms and the administrations of state farms. And you could make good money.
                      24. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 15: 11
                        +1
                        It was possible. Just as now you can scaffold and earn much more than the 15/20 .000 that the majority receive. But it’s about a supposedly Soviet paradise in which type awesome salaries. In fact, in the village, the salary of 90% of people was 70/80 rubles and pensions of 40/50
                      25. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 59
                        +1
                        I don’t know, in the 80s. 70 rub was considered a very low salary. It was necessary to leave this collective farm.
                      26. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 16: 21
                        0
                        Where?) Is it that in the open spaces of internet forums where nostalgians talk about tractor drivers with the salaries of academicians and teachers with 300 ruble salaries)
                        And in the real USSR, 70/80 rubles is the normal wage in the village until 86/87. Then the salaries began to grow, but these were already drawn candy wrappers for which nothing could be bought. Yes, and those comrade Pavlov took out in the 90th year
                        PySy: By the way, the collective farm was advanced and prosperous. Millionaire, as they said then.
                      27. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 17: 26
                        0
                        If not a secret, nevertheless in what region of the USSR? At least in what union republic? In our republics, the situation was very different, and even in the regions within the large union republics. Collective farmers in Georgia or the Krasnodar Territory, to put it mildly, were more prosperous in Brezhnev's times compared to collective farmers from the Smolensk, Pskov or Kostroma regions. And the collective farmers of the Lipetsk and Kursk regions lived on average somewhat better than the collective farmers of the Oryol region. But there were differences both within the regions, and even between the farms of one region.
                      28. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 17: 34
                        0
                        Of course, it’s not a secret Moldova. And it was still good with us. Dad shook a lot on the USSR-poverty in comparison with Moldova. Especially for the Urals
                      29. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 18: 02
                        0
                        I think that in Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Sverdlovsk people on average lived no worse than in Moldova. Or in the Tyumen region (Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug and Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug), or in the Far North, where in the 70-80s. people from all over the USSR, including Moldavians, went to work. By the way, in the Altai Territory and the Novosibirsk Region at that time there were very strong, prosperous collective farms and state farms. Although there were many lagging behind. Or did he compare the countryside of Moldova with the countryside of other regions?
                        So, he still tried to change something in life, if he wandered around the Union. He was clearly trying to get out of this collective farm.
                        And now, when acquaintances talk about Moldova, they say that it is poverty in comparison with the major cities of Russia, not only Moscow and St. Petersburg.
                      30. Town Hall
                        Town Hall 14 September 2019 19: 10
                        0
                        He compared the standard of living of a Moldovan village with a Russian village. On average, it was much better in a Moldovan village. And now, by the way, too.
                        Of course I tried to live better. Like any normal person at all times. Engaged, as they said, speculation) .... Pears in the Baltic states, apples in Saratov, garlic and nuts in Nizhny Tagil)
                      31. dima314
                        dima314 15 September 2019 09: 32
                        +2
                        Yes, the Town Hall, it is clear where the voice is coming from). From 1984 to 1987, I also worked as a power engineer at the Kolkhozzhivprom industry. My salary is 140 + 40%, as it were, not much, but the collective farm, and therefore at the end of the year, could get 300 kg of grain and maybe 10 liters of sunflower oil) There was also a garden and there grew potatoes that they could not beat in winter. I also wrote out feed and there were 50 broilers and 2 boars. Once it was necessary to change the equipment and I wrote an outfit, gave a chord and after work we worked hard and got 300 rubles each. The meat could be bought at 1k 10 kopecks officially, but in the end received 30 kopecks due to minor fraud). The collective farm was unprofitable and all accounts were blocked, and only current expenses were allowed to be paid, and therefore the barter was illegal, but effective. My electricians, I don’t remember how much they received, but they built houses and bought cars - they just stole everything from the fields, raised animals and fed and sold.
                        But at the calf rearing, the girls under the contract undertook to get the necessary gain and, working normally, received 300-350 per month in total. Were anyone getting a little? There were ... a night watchman who stole and drank received little. Everyone who wanted to work and had a normal life lived with us, although they plowed and this is true.
                        By the way, the prize for the best combine harvester of the region was ... a car ..)
                2. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 13 September 2019 21: 48
                  -6
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Take turns
                  They drank milk ...
                  Quote: 30 vis
                  Good color TV for recording. Queue for years. On free sale

                  Oops! We stood in the store freely.

                  got it. At the trading base ..
                3. Oleg Zorin
                  Oleg Zorin 13 September 2019 22: 02
                  -1
                  Where do you have it? We did not stand in the mound. And milk, if you haven’t bought it before 10, then you won’t buy it.
                  1. lopvlad
                    lopvlad 14 September 2019 00: 53
                    +6
                    Quote: Oleg Zorin
                    And milk, if you haven’t bought it before 10, then you won’t buy it.


                    in containers (in bottles and triangular bags) stood freely and could be bought during the day. But where they sold on bottling, bringing straight from the local dairy flasks were naturally taken apart until 10 in the morning, since it was without preservatives and if it stood before evenings while you would deign to buy it would be stupidly sour.
                    As far as I remember, the housewives bought draft milk and immediately went home with him and boiled so as not to turn sour.
                    It’s now under the guise of milk they sell garbage whose shelf life is six months, so apparently oncology Russia is confidently walking in the lead.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 09: 33
                      -1
                      Quote: lopvlad
                      in containers (in bottles and triangular bags) stood freely and could be bought during the day.

                      My grandmother was selling goat milk at a state price. 28 kopecks, like, per liter.
                    2. Oleg Zorin
                      Oleg Zorin 14 September 2019 19: 46
                      -1
                      I do not know how it was with you. Until 1982, the supply of the family with milk was on me. And I do not suffer from memory lapses yet. In 1982 I went to study in another city and milk became on my drum - I do not drink it.
                  2. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 14 September 2019 01: 33
                    +2
                    In Orel, milk could always be bought without a queue, there were no problems with it even at the height of perestroika. Sometimes, as a student, I bought a bottle of milk or kefir and a loaf, and enough for a day.
                  3. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 07: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: Oleg Zorin
                    Where do you have it?

                    Tula region. At least two models were constantly standing.
              2. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 13 September 2019 20: 10
                +5
                Quote: 30 vis
                The refrigerator takes turns in two to three years. Good color TV by recording. Queue for years. On free sale only black and white records .. Phone on the bluat.

                Are you a miracle in nature? Black and white ..
                1. Xnumx vis
                  Xnumx vis 13 September 2019 22: 13
                  -10
                  I didn’t drink at the Brudershaft ... I’m asking you not to poke! Stop mowing under the mentally retarded giraffe.
              3. lucul
                lucul 13 September 2019 23: 01
                0
                Yes, she was not at all! Meat by coupons, butter by coupons, milk by appointment, Refrigerator by turn after two or three years. Good color TV by recording. Queue for years. On free sale only black and white records .. Phone on the bluat. hi. Maybe you were sitting on the distribution of goods .. Commodity expert! feel fellow Then, yes ... Like cheese in butter ... .. laughing

                Yeah, only all the warehouses were crammed to the brim with products, and nothing was shipped to stores.
              4. lopvlad
                lopvlad 14 September 2019 00: 24
                +2
                Quote: 30 vis
                Meat by coupons, butter by coupons, milk by appointment


                this is already at the end of perestroika in the late 80s, and even that milk was without coupons.

                [
                Quote: 30 vis
                Good color TV by recording. Queue for years. On free sale only black and white records



                nefig similar. By recording for TV did not stand. Everything was according to the principle of "who got up first and the sneakers", namely, it was necessary to quickly buy immediately after bringing it to the store. For they scattered them like hot cakes and if they did not have time, then even "black and White records "cannot be bought. After the delivery, they were sold out instantly in a few days, as well as sets of plastic" soldiers "(Indians," cowboys ", pirates, Vikings, Romans, etc.).
                By appointment, there were only cars and sewing machines.

                Quote: 30 vis
                Phone on doom


                I had to run behind the phone, but it’s understandable (it’s not a cellular connection but a wired one)
                1. IgorIP
                  IgorIP 14 September 2019 04: 10
                  -1
                  Yeah, only cars and sewing machines ... I remember my grandfather “lucky”, because he was a war veteran, he was allowed to buy supportive !! A washing machine after only 5 years in line. Baby! And of course, the famous “veteran sets” made from a stick of smoked sausage and a couple of cans of sprat. Lepota!
                  1. polar fox
                    polar fox 14 September 2019 05: 48
                    +2
                    Quote: IgorIP
                    well, only cars and sewing machines ... I remember my grandfather “lucky”, because he was a war veteran, he was allowed to buy supportive !! Washing machines

                    you are lying after all! you are brazenly lying ... they gave my grandfather a car, he didn’t take it, “I didn’t fight for a car.” the second, ka honored teacher in the village, got a car. in 75, 03 VAZ. lived with your country?
                  2. Xnumx vis
                    Xnumx vis 14 September 2019 07: 04
                    +2
                    Quote: IgorIP
                    Yeah, only cars and sewing machines ... I remember my grandfather “lucky”, because he was a war veteran, he was allowed to buy supportive !! A washing machine after only 5 years in line. Baby! And of course, the famous “veteran sets” made from a stick of smoked sausage and a couple of cans of sprat. Lepota!

                    Probably they lived in another country, .. Or they do not want to remember the truth .. It was not possible to buy a normal quality TV, a washing machine, a refrigerator, shoes, things, food, a car, from the word in general .. It was possible to buy by overpaying, by pull, if distribution of the "deficit" at enterprises, military units, institutes ... Only "to the foremost workers (informers and saints) only the right people ... They do not want to remember the bad ... They hide like an ostrich-Head in the sand, then ...-out" .. Probably forgotten the "grocery sets" of a can of instant coffee (crappy quality), and a load of galoshes ..! Or a stick of smoked sausage, and the batteries are loaded with Leaky, soggy ...
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 07: 44
                      -6
                      Quote: 30 vis
                      It wasn’t normal quality to buy a TV, a washing machine, a refrigerator, shoes, things, products, a car, from the word in general .. You could buy it by overpaying,

                      In, you breach! When I bought a Japanese video recorder and telly in the middle of the 90's, the first thing I did was compare how it shows with Horizon. I didn’t see any difference. What did you overpay there? Refrigerators were jam-packed in the store.
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 14 September 2019 08: 49
                        +5
                        Quote: Mordvin 3
                        In, you breach! When i bought in the middle of 90's... Refrigerators stood in the store

                        Vladimir, reduce the glow ... in the middle of the 90's - yes, they stood. Before that - it was exactly as the comrade writes Xnumx vis.

                        I judge about Moscow and parts of the Moscow region, of course, maybe somewhere there was something. Nafig in this place nobody needs (the planned distribution system in action, oga).
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 09: 01
                        -2
                        Quote: Cat Man Null
                        in the middle of 90's - yes, they stood. Before that - it was exactly as the comrade 30 vis writes.

                        Nifiga like that. Often I went to the store, well, there to buy electrical tape, light bulbs, so the refrigerators stood in rows. This is in the first half of 80's.
                        But in the middle of the 90's we were given refrigerators at the enterprise on credit. ZIL branch, if that.
                        And all the time I was looking at a drilling machine in 80, I still regret that I did not buy it. 29 rubles worth. Well, damn it, I feel sorry for you, you stupid, you had to spend a flock on him.
                      3. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 22
                        +3
                        What refrigerators? Shitty "Sviyaga", "Absheron", "Saratov". Yes, they did. "ZIL", "Minsk", "Polyus" were on record. And this is in Leningrad.
                      4. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 10: 50
                        -1
                        Just "Polyus" was bought in 85 = th year. Without any entry.
                    2. Sergej1972
                      Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 08
                      +1
                      Refrigerators were of Soviet normal quality, not such an overly complicated product. Many are still in working condition. Shoes were often made of good leather, but to put it mildly, not very fashionable.)
                  3. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 06
                    +1
                    Even Hungarian canned meat products were often included in the veteran set, very tasty.)
                  4. dima314
                    dima314 15 September 2019 09: 41
                    +1
                    Strange everyone here writes. In 1985, approximately when the hunchbacked man was already voting all over the country, I signed up and bought a two-chamber refrigerator and minimal furniture in my new apartment, which I received after 1 year of waiting. I was just a visiting specialist at an enterprise under construction, and then acceleration and reconstruction and housing were built. Yes, I had to run around or sign up for a queue, but I bought and emphasize that a hunchback has already come. And cars like Muscovites and Cossacks stood in rows and nobody bought.
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                    2. AU Ivanov.
                      AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 05
                      +1
                      The reason for the deficit is the planned distribution system of the economy. Generated by communist power.
                      1. free
                        free 14 September 2019 14: 07
                        0
                        Quote: AU Ivanov.
                        The reason for the deficit is the planned distribution system of the economy. Generated by communist power.


                        And if in more detail, with justification, can you?
                      2. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 21
                        +1
                        In Kadar and Tito, Hungary and Yugoslavia had communist power, but there was no shortage.
                      3. AU Ivanov.
                        AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 15: 28
                        +3
                        I can’t say anything about Hungary, and the Yugoslavs had a decent sector of private enterprises. Apparently, therefore, they did not have deficits, unlike us.
                      4. Sergej1972
                        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 16: 35
                        +1
                        In Hungary, there were also private enterprises, and the cooperative sector was especially developed. But in Hungary and Yugoslavia, state-owned enterprises had greater freedom of economic activity compared to Soviet ones, they could independently manage a significant part of the profit left after tax.
                        But in the Polish People's Republic there was also a significant private and cooperative sector, and most of the peasants were single-handed. But at the same time, there was a shortage and problems in the supply of the population. So not everything is clear here.
                      5. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 14 September 2019 15: 40
                        +1
                        "I won't tell you about all of Odessa ..."
                        But when the students of the socialist camp were leaving for their summer vacations, their luggage was packed with Soviet household appliances and television and radio equipment. On the way back, they were carrying "shortages": jerseys and perfumes.
                        Cuban students were taken home by sea vessels. In 1982, they even filled the cargo hold of the Leonid Sobinov turbo-rover with the aforementioned items, as well as furniture and refrigerators.
                        Energy carriers and electricity received by the "brothers" from the USSR, without a twinge of conscience, were resold to neighboring countries of the capitalist system with a good profit.
                  3. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 19
                    +1
                    The 90th year, as it were, the system had already changed, in many regions there were already oppositionists in power, and the party no longer had a monopoly on power, many already left its ranks. And there was nothing for them.
                    For the newborn daughter, most likely they did not queue in the store, but in the dairy kitchen? There, the products are very specific. I’ll tell you a secret, many stood in lines in dairy kitchens both in the 90s and in the early 1998s. And somewhere, probably now. He himself stood in XNUMX, waiting for the delivery of the portion laid for his daughter in the dairy kitchen from half an hour to an hour. You can’t go there and immediately take your portion, you need to receive it in the order of the list.
                    Although, for the most part, I completely agree with the main idea of ​​your commentary, especially about the harm of the trading mafia and deficit. Even within the framework of that system, they could restore order. For some reason, there were no such problems from the socialist GDR, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, or the scale was an order of magnitude smaller.
                    1. Xnumx vis
                      Xnumx vis 14 September 2019 19: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: Sergej1972
                      For the newborn daughter, most likely they did not queue in the store, but in the dairy kitchen? There, the products are very specific. I’ll tell you a secret, many stood in lines in dairy kitchens both in the 90s and in the early 1998s. And somewhere, probably now. He himself stood in XNUMX, waiting for the delivery of the portion laid for his daughter in the dairy kitchen from half an hour to an hour. You can’t go there and immediately take your portion, you need to receive it in the order of the list.
                      Although, for the most part, I completely agree with the main idea of ​​your commentary, especially about the harm of the trading mafia and deficit.

                      Sevastopol ... I tell you in fact .. My daughter was born in the 90th year ... By this time, dairy kitchens were covered with a copper basin. In the pharmacies there was only powder and bandages with green stuff .. To buy milk, cottage cheese and kefir had to take a queue at half past 12 nights ... They wrote lists. one by one they guarded the record .. by 7-00 in the morning we went to the store to wait for milk to be brought in .. Yes, in the 70s there were no problems with basic products. . For some reason I remember the end of the 80s and the beginning of the 90s ..
                2. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 14 September 2019 07: 55
                  +4
                  Quote: free
                  Looking at people like you, I came up with a curious way, how, under the new socialism, to calculate potentially not trustworthy citizens yet. You just need to put a trough for pigs in every large settlement and dump sausages, cheeses, butter, TVs, sewing machines, phones and other

                  That is, under socialism, do you want everyone to live without sausages, cheeses, butter, televisions, sewing machines, telephones and other things?
                  1. free
                    free 14 September 2019 08: 14
                    -2
                    Quote: Dart2027
                    Quote: free
                    Looking at people like you, I came up with a curious way, how, under the new socialism, to calculate potentially not trustworthy citizens yet. You just need to put a trough for pigs in every large settlement and dump sausages, cheeses, butter, TVs, sewing machines, phones and other

                    That is, under socialism, do you want everyone to live without sausages, cheeses, butter, televisions, sewing machines, telephones and other things?


                    If you draw such conclusions, I’m sorry for you. You are stupid like a cork.
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 14 September 2019 10: 15
                      +3
                      Quote: free
                      If you draw conclusions like this

                      Exclusively from your words. You are stupid like a cork.
                  2. AU Ivanov.
                    AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 24
                    +2
                    And ate an exceptionally great idea. Without cowards, but armed with the great theory of Marx-Lenin.
                    1. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 15: 21
                      -2
                      Quote: AS Ivanov.
                      And ate an exceptionally great idea.

                      Yeah. Somehow we were on a collective farm, so everyone grew fat. On the first - soup or cabbage soup with bacon, on the second - again with bacon, on the third - compote. (without fat).
                      1. Xnumx vis
                        Xnumx vis 14 September 2019 19: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: mordvin xnumx
                        Quote: AS Ivanov.
                        And ate an exceptionally great idea.

                        Yeah. Somehow we were on a collective farm, so everyone grew fat. On the first - soup or cabbage soup with bacon, on the second - again with bacon, on the third - compote. (without fat).

                        They didn’t give meat ... Looks like you have eaten a collective farm .. Oh, sorry YOU the collective farm ate. All fat, but fat,
                      2. Mordvin 3
                        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 19: 44
                        -1
                        Quote: 30 vis
                        .Oh I apologize YOU ate the collective farm. All fat, but fat,

                        89th year. State farm "Odoevsky" What's wrong?
                  3. Nycomed
                    Nycomed 14 September 2019 20: 39
                    -3
                    It was possible and necessary to live without everything, but, under the pillow, a volume of Old Man Krupsky-Armand should always lie. Here are his quotes and had to eat.
                  4. dima314
                    dima314 15 September 2019 09: 47
                    +1
                    what nonsense ?! Since 1989 there was no longer socialism from the word at all! There was a mess that the hunchback made very quickly. I graduated from the university in 1981, but by 1990 I had an apartment, a refrigerator, a sewing machine, a TV woodworking machine, minimal furniture and two children. Never experienced a power problem. The mess went from 1989 and further on the rise.
          2. Nycomed
            Nycomed 13 September 2019 20: 33
            -7
            Not only for the sausage, but in general for everything!
          3. free
            free 14 September 2019 06: 32
            -2
            Quote: AU Ivanov.
            And at the same time amicably stand in line for sausage and other goods.

            Before you specifically trough with nishtyak put.
        2. Xnumx vis
          Xnumx vis 13 September 2019 19: 53
          -7
          Quote: lopvlad
          and if socialism is returned, then it would be possible to rivet aircraft carriers faster than China and at the same time lower the retirement age.

          And again to stand in queues for toilet paper, to receive soap and bones, called meat, on coupons, again the acogolization of the population. To one-off (wine and vodka) shops before a pay and advance payment by Kamazes shmurdyak! But "sicilism" and the glory of the Communist Party ... almost like the glory of Ukraine ..
          1. lopvlad
            lopvlad 14 September 2019 01: 13
            +10
            Quote: 30 vis
            acogolization of the population again


            that's just the statistics of the population size suggest the opposite, namely that under the USSR the population grew by hundreds of thousands and now it is dying out. For some reason, then the "alcoholics" had healthy and strong children, support for their parents and now the "athletes" are completely disabled genetic diseases requiring organ transplantation (heart, liver, kidneys, bone marrow, etc.) and with down syndrome.
            This is even if you do not take into account the rapid 2ebilization of the younger generation.

            Quote: 30 vis
            and bones. called meat


            every collective farm under the USSR had thousands of cattle (herds of cows, herds of sheep, pigs) and now there is nothing. Now there is a wasteland overgrown with weeds and extinct haunted settlements.
            1. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 14 September 2019 01: 35
              -1
              There were a lot of children with mental retardation, with Down syndrome, with a slight degree of moronity and in Soviet times.
              1. lopvlad
                lopvlad 14 September 2019 01: 48
                +4
                Quote: Sergej1972
                and in Soviet times there were many.


                then there were only a few, and now there are thousands. As well as the fact that during the USSR a certificate of exemption from physical education was available to a maximum of 1-2 people from the class and did not die of heart and stroke in the lessons.
                1. Sergej1972
                  Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 30
                  +2
                  No, the numbers were quite comparable. In every more or less large rural school, after the first or second grade, at least one child was sent to an auxiliary school, and some immediately. Each village council had at least one "" who did not attend school at all. But this has nothing to do with the socio-political system. There were many such children in pre-revolutionary Russia. As for children with Down syndrome, a certain percentage of them are always born in any society, regardless of the order, welfare. They are often born into prosperous, non-drinking families.
                  By the way, in the second half of the 80s, during the now-damned anti-alcohol campaign, the percentage of children born with physical and mental disabilities decreased. And when the restrictions were lifted in the early 90s, this percentage increased again.
            2. AU Ivanov.
              AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 26
              +3
              Useless from these heads of cattle, if there was no meat in the stores. At least with us.
          2. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 10: 31
            -2
            Quote: 30 vis
            acogolization of the population again

            Just in 90 was. We bought packages.
            Quote: 30 vis
            receive soap and bones on coupons.

            In more detail. Something I don’t remember bone coupons.
            1. Xnumx vis
              Xnumx vis 14 September 2019 19: 41
              0
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              In more detail. Something I don’t remember bone coupons.

              Of course you do not remember. YOU ate fat on the collective farm!
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 20: 03
                -1
                Quote: 30 vis
                Of course you do not remember. YOU ate fat on the collective farm!

                In the 89 year, I helped my mother. Stamped milk coupons.
                Yeah, I ate. We morons were taken out of the collective farm because the tractor was stolen
                1. region58
                  region58 15 September 2019 07: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  the tractor was stolen

                  Are we going, going to a neighboring village to a disco (s)? wassat It was so... yes
            2. region58
              region58 14 September 2019 22: 33
              +1
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              Just in 90 was. We bought packages.

              No, it was in the eighties that they bought colognes and perfumes in packs, and in the nineties - "piano", in liters ... and "upi" - yes, in packs ... and there and there - "just add water" ... Dilute the "grand piano" with water and add a couple of bags of "UPI" to it - this is already for gourmets ... in general, they beat the liver hard ... yes
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 23: 59
                0
                Quote: region58
                and if you dilute the piano with water and add a couple of bags of UPI

                Compote was diluted ... wink
          3. Oleg Zorin
            Oleg Zorin 14 September 2019 19: 54
            +1
            Why did you instruct the peasant cons? He told you the truth.
        3. ciujoilu
          ciujoilu 13 September 2019 21: 08
          -8
          Where to reduce, to forty, or even how to graduate from school immediately retire
        4. Ross xnumx
          Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 04: 05
          0
          Quote: lopvlad
          and if socialism is returned, then it would be possible to rivet aircraft carriers faster than China and at the same time lower the retirement age.

          I’m afraid that first we need to put our brains in their place and regain our self-esteem so that the Kremlin’s presidents can not mislead people for decades. Among other things, it's time to admit that Russia will soon be overrun by the population problem. In the United States, the population from 248 million people in 700 grew to 000 people. I am afraid that even under socialism (soon) there will be no one to rivet. Or will we order guest workers? If the Russian oligarchs give money ... lol
          In Russia, the right to issue laws, appoint officials, and determine the strategy of economic and political development is determined by those in power, appointed from a very narrow circle. And all this is happening outside the zone of interests of the majority of the population (which is why it responds with such "violent" growth) and without its participation ...
          hi
          Quote: AS Ivanov.
          And at the same time amicably stand in line for sausage and other goods.

          Queues for sausage were only due to the fact that the sausage was real and people had money. You would have calmed down, otherwise you poke this sausage wherever you go. Happiness is not in sausage ... But in dumplings ... lol
          1. AU Ivanov.
            AU Ivanov. 14 September 2019 10: 29
            +4
            Yes, there was money. But to buy something worthwhile was very difficult. Money not backed by a mass of goods. But the sausage was made of meat, that's true. And there was no radiation from cell towers either. Moreover, all over the world, due to the lack of such technologies.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 13 September 2019 19: 21
        -1
        Quote: Kontrik
        Pension is small and generally raised the retirement age ...

        Vital, remind me where you work?
    5. armata_armata
      armata_armata 13 September 2019 19: 03
      +8
      Svarog will appear an hour later and for 100500 comments will open the discussion that everything is gone, Putin is to blame. That's all you need to know. Amen

      Cheers throwers already went on the attack? Bare back just cover lol
      1. Grandfather
        Grandfather 13 September 2019 19: 06
        +10
        Quote: Kontrik
        Quote: Designer 68
        Svarog will appear an hour later and for 100500 comments will open the discussion that everything is gone, Putin is to blame. That's all you need to know. Amen

        Pension is small and generally raised the retirement age ... bully
        And if you stop the production of missiles and ships, then how many pensioners could be saved from starvation ... hehe ..
        That's the whole answer to the Chinese Svarog, you’ll answer everything .. The Chinese contact him! (Joke, but with a hint ..)

        Mihan, you can continue to drown for his fabulous, but he will meanwhile sell the country ..
        .220 thousand hectares of Sverdlovsk forests will be cut down for sale to the Chinese - authorities have forgotten their promise

        https://newdaynews.ru/ekb/671675.html
        1. Reserve buildbat
          Reserve buildbat 13 September 2019 19: 20
          +7
          Oh how! But I live in this same Ekat-Sverdlovsk and have not heard anything about it. I'm going to ask people
        2. Svarog
          Svarog 13 September 2019 19: 34
          +4
          Quote: Dead Day
          Mihan, you can continue to drown for his fabulous, but he will meanwhile sell the country ..

          So sold out for a long time .. of course not everything is still, but he still has a lot of time ahead, while Mikhan odes sing ..
      2. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 September 2019 19: 21
        -6
        dear man0 naked ass is it fetish or other pictures do not come to mind? who has a bare ass then? a country that has everything except these aircraft carriers? well no. Yes, is it already a question and everyone has their own opinion. or are you specifically about those present? so it’s like the Internet is there and gadgets to write. no longer agree with naked ?! when you say something, at least for your own worry. naked ass in comparison with whom? with whom or with what do you compare that?
        1. armata_armata
          armata_armata 13 September 2019 19: 49
          +5
          a country that has everything except these aircraft carriers?

          All this is the fleet, the air force, industry, the economy, which of the following is in abundance?
          so it’s like the Internet is there and gadgets to write

          Proud of imported equipment and gadgets, much winked
          when you say something, at least for your own worry. naked ass in comparison with whom? with whom or with what do you compare that?

          In comparison with China, the United States, a little?
          I don’t see facts besides rotten cheers
          1. carstorm 11
            carstorm 11 13 September 2019 20: 02
            -5
            how to explain, so as not to offend ... the fleet? but he is not? may not be as we would like but he is. It’s quite enough that countries like the ruins wouldn’t especially vomit. proud of a stranger? But should it be all their own? this is what country of the world is it all that? the same China or the states are actively buying up everything in a row around the world and it somehow does not bother them. why should this bother us? OK. in comparison with sha and China. frets. Well, let us have less than theirs and why? we somehow don’t remember that they would break into hegemons. the third is also normal. and given the development of the Strategic Missile Forces and live peacefully. economics and industry is yes. but we live the same. I want more and better, but for now, like this. there will still be arguments, or besides the use of a good word URA there are no others?
          2. lopvlad
            lopvlad 14 September 2019 01: 31
            +5
            Quote: armata_armata
            In comparison with China, the United States, a little?


            and what is the PRC doing innovative, apart from riveting in itself cheap imperfections on goods from around the world?
            Only the United States refused ZTE to install its processors and OSes on their smartphones so they instantly were blown away by touching even such a giant as Huawei.
            Or maybe they have an aircraft carrier designed from scratch according to their own developments and not ripped off from the Soviet clone?

            If the United States is so great, why do they fly to the ISS on our outdated ships and use Russian engines to launch satellites into space?
            And what are Americans proud of if a typical American is entirely dressed in consumer goods with a "Made in China" tag and holds an iPhone with a "Made in China" sticker in his hands?
    6. Svarog
      Svarog 13 September 2019 19: 28
      +10
      Quote: Designer 68
      Svarog appears and at 100500

      Eco stares at me laughing You are straight ill with me wassat
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 September 2019 19: 31
        +4
        it's popularity) she is)))
    7. Gardamir
      Gardamir 13 September 2019 19: 35
      +4
      That's all you need to know.

      What is worth knowing? rave. which is copied from branch to branch

      You started the discussion enchanting. Imagine someone calls you to work and says that your apartment is on fire, and you, Svarog will appear now and open the discussion that the apartment was set on fire ...
    8. cormorant
      cormorant 13 September 2019 19: 36
      -3
      This suggests that today's Russia is no longer the Soviet Union militarily!
      It only says that you are Chinese, even having 10 aircraft carriers militarily will still be weaker than us.
    9. Greg Miller
      Greg Miller 13 September 2019 20: 26
      +1
      Question from China: the USSR had 9 aircraft carriers, why did Russia have only one?
      Because capitalism does not take root in Russia ...
  2. dirk182
    dirk182 13 September 2019 18: 30
    +9
    Because someone was too seduced by the gifts of capitalism .. And this lesson, apparently, did not benefit their successors. Russia is following the same path.
    1. Corn
      Corn 13 September 2019 18: 38
      +11
      Because someone was too seduced by the gifts of capitalism ..
      Are you talking about China, which headed for a market economy and carried out privatization attracting all international investors 10 years earlier than the "perestroika" in the Union?
      Russia is following the same path.
      Russia follows the path of building neo-feudalism and the restoration of the very “Russia that we have lost” that has no analogues in the world.
      1. Ross xnumx
        Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 04: 13
        +1
        Quote: Corn
        Are you talking about China, which headed for a market economy and carried out privatization attracting all international investors 10 years earlier than the "perestroika" in the Union?

        I still don’t understand why the bulk of the population of the USSR bought goods in stores and not in markets? Maybe even then they did not like the market economy, in which goods with low prices were sold at exorbitant prices?
        1. Saul_Rhen
          Saul_Rhen 15 September 2019 00: 16
          -1
          You should not write such nonsense so zealously. If the market economy is for you = the market (i.e. the bazaar), then at least a couple of smart books read ... Don’t be disgraced.
    2. Rwmos
      Rwmos 13 September 2019 18: 58
      -8
      Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi and Bin Laden with Assad? All four are proteges of the West
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 September 2019 19: 17
        +11
        And you can ask what have our aircraft carriers and all this Middle Eastern kagal got to do with it "
        1. Rwmos
          Rwmos 13 September 2019 19: 31
          -7
          Despite the fact that only against such a Kagal aircraft carriers are needed. China aircraft carriers will sink before they even reach the shores of China, not Japan. By the way, from the moment of the test of the anti-ship ballistic missile by China - no one has seen American aircraft carriers in those parts
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 13 September 2019 19: 42
            +5
            no one has seen American aircraft carriers in those parts


            And no one has ever seen them there before. Since the Vietnam War.
            I don’t remember which aircraft carriers, how many, and by whom were used against the aforementioned company led by Saddam Hussein. Could you tell? Let's not talk about our "Kuzya", he was there for completely different reasons.
            1. Rwmos
              Rwmos 13 September 2019 19: 55
              -1
              In Yokosuka, for example, one U.S. aircraft carrier was constantly based before:
              \
              And in 2003, as many as 5 aircraft carriers fought in Iraq
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 13 September 2019 20: 18
                +3
                That's it - exactly what was "based". Just above you stated that:

                since the test of anti-ship ballistic missiles by China - no one has seen American aircraft carriers in those parts


                They did not fight in Iraq, the US infantry and tank divisions fought in Iraq, or rather, it was not even a war, but a walk through a plowed field. But, yes, they bombed everything there thoroughly, but is it one carrier aircraft? Yes, and they were there in shifts and more marines provided support and covered their ships, beating with "Tomahokami", it is not clear from whom.
                1. Rwmos
                  Rwmos 13 September 2019 20: 28
                  +1
                  They did not fight in Iraq

                  In 2003, the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln took part in the war in Iraq. More than 16 500 sorties completed on board an aircraft carrier

                  Nifiga himself "did not fight"!
                  1. Catfish
                    Catfish 13 September 2019 23: 41
                    -1
                    And with such a fleet, with so many aircraft carriers, one unfortunate Lincoln? And you call this a war of aircraft carriers? Re-read Samuel Morrison, that's where the aircraft carriers really fought, although there was a real enemy there.
              2. Ross xnumx
                Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 04: 17
                +1
                Quote: RWMos
                In Yokosuka, for example, one U.S. aircraft carrier was previously constantly based

                They have such people in Yoko ... I would say: not people, but ... well, you understand. lol And then they walk along the shore with posters: "Give us the Kuriles!"
      2. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 14 September 2019 15: 34
        0
        Gaddafi and Assad were definitely not henchmen of the West. Bin (or Bin) Laden yes. Saddam Hussein was muddy, both ours and yours.
        1. Rwmos
          Rwmos 14 September 2019 15: 50
          0
          Assad was generally considered the most pro-Western leader in the BV. and in any propaganda from the State Department, Syria was used as an example of the fact that in the Middle East there can also exist a LIGHT, and not a Muslim state, stuffed with "European values" right up to burping ...

          They also really wanted to get into the Guinness Book of Records. By the way, I remember about the attitude of Muslims towards cooking ... As far as I remember. in the case of the orthodox - the peasants are completely in no way ...

          They mold cake with marzipans at the stadium ...
          1. Sergej1972
            Sergej1972 14 September 2019 18: 13
            0
            So in Syria, religious fanatics never made up the majority, and Islam was traditionally moderate there. Is it bad? Moreover, not only Muslims live there.
            1. Rwmos
              Rwmos 14 September 2019 18: 55
              -1
              ... and then all of a sudden they made up the most - when in the hands of the government the territory remained smaller than Mikhalkov’s estate laughing And what is most interesting - again with the participation of the Americans. For whom the participation of Syria in the Chinese Belt and Path is like a sharp knife. And for the sake of this, you can forget that Assad, even by education, is a Frenchman, a British felts, and draw him as a bearded mujahideen. And the wife is again English toli, German roofing felts ... A sort of purposefully slap in Europe family of Middle Eastern slaves of Europe ...
              1. Sergej1972
                Sergej1972 14 September 2019 22: 14
                0
                You do not confuse Assad with the Jordanian king Abdullah?
                1. Rwmos
                  Rwmos 14 September 2019 22: 35
                  -1
                  No. The place of study is a French college in Syria. Place of internship - UK. Wife - place of study - UK. Place of work - a bank in Germany ...
                  1. Sergej1972
                    Sergej1972 15 September 2019 03: 51
                    0
                    But Assad’s wife is from Syria, not a foreigner.
                    1. Rwmos
                      Rwmos 15 September 2019 04: 00
                      -1
                      Being determines consciousness, the whole Asad family of Europe is closer in education than Syria. They are accustomed to the familiar Europe
  3. Andrei Nikolaevich
    Andrei Nikolaevich 13 September 2019 18: 30
    +1
    Because Russia has too many ,, brothers ,,,
    1. 210ox
      210ox 13 September 2019 18: 38
      +9
      Did you mean "partners"? No, because Russia is not the USSR. Unfortunately.
      1. Kontrik
        Kontrik 13 September 2019 18: 52
        -9
        Quote: 210ox
        Did you mean "partners"? No, because Russia is not the USSR. Unfortunately.

        Alas, this is the whole point of Dmitry! We (the people) will not pull aircraft carriers, our kortavim oligarchs need yachts (like two aircraft carriers for a price) and other soothing ambitions .. Well, the "former brothers" all demand compensation for the occupation, etc. They would have taken everything from Abramovich and confiscated and others. Gusinsky, Smolenskys But no, they want to take off the last shirt from the Russian people and so that we kneel down and ask forgiveness for our kindness .. This is how we live yeshkin cat tudy syudy in the heel to the chest. request
        P / S This posner in his notes wrote so maliciously, first about the Germans, and then he advised the Russians to repent and dust his head with ashes and the more the better in years ..
        And we will not get on our knees! That’s evil for all of you
        1. Andrei Nikolaevich
          Andrei Nikolaevich 13 September 2019 20: 04
          -3
          And why not, demand compensation from our alligarchs?
          Enjoy, the public domain ,,?
          So let them compensate for all sprats and others ..
          They are amig, they will transfer their money to Russia. The Russian people, compensation, does not require.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. carstorm 11
        carstorm 11 13 September 2019 19: 25
        +2
        and what is wrong with them? the same leaders as others. they lived in peace. evolved. and then democracy came ... are we to blame or what? for me it’s better to be friends with them than with supposedly brothers who have been cutting their population for 5 years and handouts around the world collect concerts with the barrel organ giving concerts in the capitals. pah damn it. shame.
    3. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 04: 19
      0
      Quote: Andrey Nikolaevich
      Because Russia has too many ,, brothers ,,,

      Russia has few brothers, practically a cousin of Kazakhstan. And in the sisters of Russia, as in the litter rummages ... lol
  4. svp67
    svp67 13 September 2019 18: 31
    +10
    What was created in the USSR to be called a pure aircraft carrier is very difficult, too many of these ships had uncharacteristic weapons for aircraft carriers. And of course it is a pity that we lost these ships so mediocre. They could be useful now.
    1. Nycomed
      Nycomed 13 September 2019 18: 52
      -2
      Even the unfinished nuclear "Ulyanovsk" can be called a clean aircraft carrier at a stretch. And we are not even talking about the rest.
    2. carstorm 11
      carstorm 11 13 September 2019 19: 28
      +2
      I doubt it. these vacuum cleaners would drain the entire budget at the same time going out to sea once every few years without any benefit.
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 13 September 2019 19: 35
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      They could be useful now.

      Those who rule now .. they don’t need them, give them the BIGGEST yachts ..
      1. Saul_Rhen
        Saul_Rhen 13 September 2019 21: 15
        -9
        Are you bothered again?
  5. artifact
    artifact 13 September 2019 18: 31
    +14
    and what is there to guess then !? because effective managers began to govern the country. what is more profitable for them to build and develop, or to saw and sell?
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 13 September 2019 18: 53
      0
      And when were the defective cruisers built, what managers were there?
  6. usr01
    usr01 13 September 2019 18: 32
    +6
    Nd-ah-ah .... Thanks to Gorbachev and Yeltsin ....
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 13 September 2019 18: 58
      -1
      Special thanks to them. And so on the list - Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov.
  7. spirit
    spirit 13 September 2019 18: 33
    +15
    Because friends of the Fairytale Tipo Usmanov or Edinoros Skoch prefer a vessel of a different class

    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 13 September 2019 18: 41
      +16
      Quote: spirit
      Because friends of the Fairytale Tipo Usmanov or Edinoros Skoch prefer a vessel of a different class

      The ex-head of Rosneft bought a yacht for 1,2 billion rubles, and then asked for state support! Eduard Khudainatov bought a Princess yacht, the cost of which exceeds 1,2 billion rubles. https://www.business-gazeta.ru/news/438674
    2. Sniper
      Sniper 13 September 2019 18: 51
      +2
      We must offer Messrs. Usmanov and Skoch to hand over these yachts for the needs of the Russian Navy.)
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 13 September 2019 19: 21
        +8
        Yes, they can offer them anything, just the point. There is no need to offer ... hi
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 September 2019 19: 27
      +8
      An aircraft carrier with an aircraft wing and all other related equipment will cost a trillion rubles - you can’t even build a frigate for the cost of this yacht. Russia does not need an aircraft carrier in view of the absence of everything else that the fleet needs.
  8. ab2020
    ab2020 13 September 2019 18: 36
    +1
    And it’s good that no.
    Where to get bablishko for the maintenance of 9 AUG?
    And most importantly: what would they be doing? What tasks would they face?
    There was one task for one aircraft carrier in Syria. I don’t remember anymore ...
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 13 September 2019 18: 47
      -4
      One task, and one that is far-fetched.
      And the Americans were stopped by surface ships led by one of the Atlanteans.
  9. Sky strike fighter
    Sky strike fighter 13 September 2019 18: 40
    0
    The Americans at one time were very fussed about it. Well, the Earth is round and time will put everything in its place, you will see soon the Chinese will rub their hands to watch how the Americans are sawing their aircraft carriers as part of the new American thinking and acceleration combined with perestroika.
    1. VVAUSH
      VVAUSH 13 September 2019 18: 48
      -6
      Wise guy, did you learn how to leave the Tu-95? :-) :-) :-)
    2. Nycomed
      Nycomed 13 September 2019 19: 31
      +1
      "soon the Chinese will be rubbing their hands to watch the Americans sawing their aircraft carriers"
      Rubbing his hands from the saw, which will cut our forest, from Primorye to the Urals!
  10. strannik1985
    strannik1985 13 September 2019 18: 42
    +6
    Weird question. Because the RF is not the USSR with specific finances and a planned economy, and even more so, it is not China (the volume of FDI in 2018 was 134,97 billion dollars, for January-July 2019 78,8 billion).
    1. 210ox
      210ox 13 September 2019 18: 50
      +3
      It's not a question. This is the headline, and Chinese trolling.
  11. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 13 September 2019 18: 43
    +9
    Everyone is to blame for the collapse of the USSR, that is, all who lived on the territory of a great country. It goes without saying that the main fault lies with the leaders, but the rest of the population contributed to this to a small degree. And what is an aircraft carrier, for an ordinary citizen it’s the same as a spaceship, something transcendental and poorly understood, that is, absolutely unnecessary. As a result, they remained essentially unowned, and this was used by clever machinists.
    1. Ross xnumx
      Ross xnumx 14 September 2019 04: 31
      0
      Quote: Chaldon48
      As a result, they remained essentially ownerless, and this is what dexterous scammers.

      Information for consideration:
      Fraudster - one who deceives others, abusing their trust, for personal gain; rogue rogue. Purse - a small bag for storing money. In Russia it was worn on a belt, supplied with ties. He served as the prototype of the wallet. From this word come the words "scrotum" and "Fraudster" (a thief cutting off moshnu from his belt).
      Quote: Chaldon48
      Of course, the main fault lies with the leaders, but the rest of the population contributed to this to a small degree.

      In a situation where a husband is cheating on his wife with a cute "colleague" at work should be regarded as passivity or hypersexuality? You need to perceive the leadership as artists (magicians, acrobats, jugglers), because their actions were aimed at "surprising" ... But! The circus left, stayed ... Yes, yes, yes ... It's a pity that we stopped recognizing ourselves in the mirror. Either the face is crooked, or the mirror ...
  12. Corn
    Corn 13 September 2019 18: 46
    -5
    “Sohu”, is it the Chinese reincarnation of such a popular “national interest” in Russian media? Articles of the ego publication are one more crazy than the other, and the traffic from Russia for some reason is unusually high. Accidentally, the ears of “Russia Today” do not stick out nearby?
  13. Yaro Polk
    Yaro Polk 13 September 2019 18: 46
    0
    From where he took 9.
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 13 September 2019 21: 19
      +3
      They counted Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev, Minsk, Novorossiysk, Baku, Kuznetsov, Varyag and Ulyanovsk. The first 6 as aircraft carriers ... well, that’s for yourself.
      1. Yaro Polk
        Yaro Polk 14 September 2019 05: 43
        -1
        I apologize. I wanted to put a plus, minus slammed by a misunderstanding (I did not wake up yet)) ... and is not corrected now)
        1. Saul_Rhen
          Saul_Rhen 14 September 2019 14: 16
          +1
          Do not bother) I have these tsiferki to the bulb.
  14. Sniper
    Sniper 13 September 2019 18: 49
    +1
    all the same, it is necessary to distinguish ... an aircraft carrier, with an aircraft carrier cruiser .. we had many types of ships in the Navy that other countries did not build. due to various reasons.
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 13 September 2019 19: 24
      +3
      For what reasons built cruisers like Kiev, and not normal aircraft carriers of the same displacement? The chief designer of the Nevsky Design Bureau knew exactly what an aircraft carrier looked like.
      1. Antares
        Antares 13 September 2019 20: 57
        +2
        Quote: Pavel57
        For what reasons built cruisers like Kiev, and not normal aircraft carriers of the same displacement?

        Geographical location of shipyards, escort, location.
        1. Pavel57
          Pavel57 13 September 2019 21: 00
          -4
          The shipyard was one in all fleets. And in the case of a real battle of the cruiser, missiles, rather than airplanes, were the main weapon. For the sake of compliance with the Montreux contract, such a ship was not worth it.
          1. Antares
            Antares 13 September 2019 21: 16
            +1
            Quote: Pavel57
            The shipyard was one in all fleets

            not really. But Nikolaev built a large surface combat. (Northern built a submarine fleet)
            Quote: Pavel57
            And in the case of a real battle of the cruiser, missiles, rather than airplanes, were the main weapon

            the decks were still quite reliable and not inferior to land.
            And now the best is F 18. Although the land will always surpass.
            Well, the missile theme was well developed.
            Quote: Pavel57
            For the sake of conformity with the doctrine of Montreux, such a ship was not worth it.

            The USSR lived in such conditions when life still forced aircraft carriers to build, and since it was impossible to work out the necessary skills from scratch, they decided to start with this. From small to large.
            Of course, UDC would have been riveted.
            In general, they came by working out skills to Ulyanovsk.
            As Americans, as Churchill aptly put it, we tried all the options and finally found the right one.
            what the Americans will do right - after they try everything (W. Churchill)

            In my opinion, aircraft carriers are slowly turning into clean air carriers.
            Carriers of combat platforms. It is quite possible even in the air.
            1. Pavel57
              Pavel57 13 September 2019 21: 22
              -1
              Each process has its own internal logic. Apparently from the denial of an aircraft carrier it takes 20 years to get to a normal aircraft carrier and half ships in the form of Moscow and Kiev.
              Although the reels at the top are visible on the projects of carrier-based aviation, for example the MiG-23K.
              1. Antares
                Antares 13 September 2019 22: 49
                +1
                Quote: Pavel57
                Apparently from the denial of an aircraft carrier it takes 20 years to get to a normal aircraft carrier and half ships in the form of Moscow and Kiev.

                tried different dead ends and still came to the right one. As Churchill said about the Americans.
                Quote: Pavel57
                Although the reels at the top are visible on the projects of carrier-based aviation, for example the MiG-23K

                trial and error is difficult ....
                The USSR was no different from other human societies when the right path was not immediately and not everywhere.
  15. Dikson
    Dikson 13 September 2019 18: 50
    +17
    In the USSR, motorcycles, cameras, refrigerators, televisions, tape recorders and automatic washing machines were produced .. where did all this go?
    In the USSR, there were passenger hydrofoils, almost every regional center had its own airfield, where did all this go? Why does Russia need aircraft carriers? So that Gazprom, which is a national property, could help foreign countries to raise their economies? Are we going to build aircraft carriers to cover the yachts of homegrown billionaires while walking on the oceans? For fifty years, an ordinary automatic automatic transmission has not been able to invent and assemble, but an aircraft carrier is urgently needed .. For which there are no planes. And there are no escort ships either. And the submarines, on the fingers of one hand ... But the aircraft carrier is needed .. Somali pirates on junks armed with rusty Chinese AKM were already chased by "Peter the Great" .. - there was no less ship at hand .. - now an aircraft carrier is needed ... To navigate, demonstrated and proudly carried ... It will be based on the Baltic Sea .. - because in Tikhiy it has nothing to do - there the Chinese are measuring the number of Americans already .. In the Arctic? Then it is necessary, following the example of the British and Americans during the Second World War, to take an old nuclear icebreaker, cut off the superstructure and mumble the continuous take-off deck. There will be a convoy aircraft carrier. That means the Northern Sea Route was under control. What a great Chinese discovery! - Russia is not the USSR .. of course not. There was no point in counting aircraft carriers, it was enough to count the republics that were part of the former empire ...
    1. svp67
      svp67 13 September 2019 18: 58
      0
      Quote: Dikson
      almost every district center had its own airfield, where did all this go?

      Why "barely"? Airfields were and still are, BEFORE they are, it's just that now they are almost never used, but there are, for all kinds of attacks, what if "small aircraft will fly" ...
      Quote: Dikson
      In the USSR there were passenger hydrofoils

      They are appearing in Russia now, here is the "Comet-120M"

      Quote: Dikson
      For fifty years, an ordinary car gearbox has not been able to invent and assemble

      Oh ... And tell me what box was on the "Seagull"?
      1. Petrol cutter
        Petrol cutter 13 September 2019 20: 34
        +2
        ABOUT! So two such * Comets * will be built by our SZ. In October, the bookmark is first scheduled. The slipway is almost ready.
      2. Dikson
        Dikson 14 September 2019 03: 39
        +2
        That you remarkably noticed .. about "The Seagull" .. And a lot of our people on the Seagulls traveled around the country? I am writing about mass production, and not about piece goods at the price of a spaceship .. "Comets" appear .. How many were there on the great rivers of our country? And the people decided on what to get to him - if you want - by train, if you want - by plane, let it be An-2, if you want - on "Rocket", Comet, Meteor, or "Zarya" .. Industry is a mass conveyor production of goods consumer consumption. and not only the sale of metal, oil, gas and timber abroad ... Seagull .. Tell me, how many years did you rivet the "classics" at Avtobaz? After all, they came up with an elegant term to justify laziness and obstinacy, unwillingness to change anything ... The reflectors were changed, the moldings were stuck shiny, - hurray! here's a new car from the VAZ plant! At a new price .. And the fact that the engine of the 70s of the last century in this "new" car is somehow modestly silent about it ... Do you need to tell the story of window regulators or car air conditioning? And why does our person need convenience and comfort? But then the country was at least self-sufficient .. and was able to feed and clothe itself, and fly into space .. And now some colonial princes urgently needed a nuclear aircraft carrier in a squandering country .. You can think of why it is .. Go to Cuba with many months of friendly visits .. Or in some other Honduras .. just like that, the nerves of the Americans to pat and puff out their cheeks from their own importance ...
        1. svp67
          svp67 14 September 2019 12: 14
          +1
          Quote: Dikson
          That you remarkably noticed .. about "The Seagull" .. And a lot of our people on the Seagulls traveled around the country?

          Well, 1,5 percent of the population for sure. But a large mass of the "ordinary" population rode a bus with an automatic checkpoint, remember this
          Quote: Dikson
          Tell me, how many years did you rivet "classics" at Avtobaz?

          Many, so the French, when they became masters and did not want to remove it from the conveyor, if ours insisted. You see, the car is produced on long-written-off equipment, and it’s even bought ... DREAM
        2. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 16: 17
          0
          Quote: Dikson
          Do you need to tell the story of power windows or car air conditioning?

          Go ahead. I will listen with pleasure.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 13 September 2019 19: 32
      +1
      Automatic boxes have already been made by KATE for Aurus
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 14 September 2019 01: 55
      +1
      Agree, the republics were unequal in potential. It is incorrect to compare the Russian Federation with the USSR. But, on the other hand, the RSFSR accounted for two-thirds of industry (including three-quarters of the military-industrial complex) and about half of the agriculture of the USSR, most of basic science, the main design bureaus, and the vast majority of leading universities.
  16. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk 13 September 2019 18: 50
    +1
    Quote: neri73-r
    The article was written in military style degenerate - the goat has four legs, so the pig grunts! hi

    And another talent dropped the text here without bothering to edit endless repeats. "The sticks should be perpendicular."
  17. Nycomed
    Nycomed 13 September 2019 18: 58
    -2
    So I knew that now the number of private yachts would be tied to the absence of aircraft carriers. The Americans have both private yachts and aircraft carriers. And 40-50 years ago, we had neither private yachts nor private jets, and there were no aircraft carriers either. It's not about yachts, after all. stop
    1. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 13 September 2019 21: 20
      +6
      It's all about the collapsed factories and factories and those who contributed to this. For example, I worked at the Novosibirsk precision engineering plant, this plant had another name "Kometa Plant", officially it produced the "Comet" tape recorder and also studio VCRs, but this, as they say, was just the tip of the iceberg, the plant was subordinate to chapter 8 and produced military products, which consumed a lot of precious metals, which was the reason for its total destruction, just like that, because when it came time to receive a pension, and this happened in 2008, I do not receive a pension for working at this plant, there is an entry in my work book , and the archives were so firmly "lost" that the pension fund refused to pay me a pension for my work at this plant. It was interesting to hear other victims.
      1. Nycomed
        Nycomed 13 September 2019 21: 27
        -2
        Honestly, I don’t even know what to tell you. Unless to try to find the same victims from your enterprise and all together will turn to a lawyer specializing in such cases. Perhaps all that I can advise you. Excuse me. And the archives should be somewhere, be sure. hi
  18. Private-K
    Private-K 13 September 2019 19: 00
    +7
    Well, to call small helicopter carriers like Moscow aircraft carriers - pull an owl on a globe. It’s indecent.
    And two TAKRs were sold for nothing, by a group of Soviet admirals for personal enrichment. But this is not customary to talk about.
    Sokhu incorrectly confuses "aircraft carrier" and "aircraft carrier". Propaganda for a Chinese man in the street, who, after reading this, will think: "Eeee! Yes, these northern barbarians could have previously, but now they are completely weakened." What is required.
  19. armata_armata
    armata_armata 13 September 2019 19: 05
    +2
    Why did it happen? This question is asked by Sohu.

    Well, for them there is a simple answer: Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin feel
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 13 September 2019 21: 24
      -7
      And also Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko. Why didn’t they remember?
      1. armata_armata
        armata_armata 13 September 2019 21: 35
        +4
        And also Lenin, Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko. Why didn’t they remember?

        And the result of their reign was 9 aircraft carriers, and the result of the last three was the sale of these 9 aircraft carriers wink
        1. Saul_Rhen
          Saul_Rhen 13 September 2019 21: 38
          -1
          The result of their reign was the absence of aircraft carriers and the collapse of the country.
          1. armata_armata
            armata_armata 13 September 2019 21: 41
            +1
            The result of their reign was the absence of aircraft carriers and the collapse of the country.

            That was the result of the rule of the tonde Gorbachev-Yeltsin-Putin hi
            1. Saul_Rhen
              Saul_Rhen 14 September 2019 00: 09
              -2
              And you are stubborn. I’ll give a wider picture, but first answer, how many normal aircraft carriers were built in the USSR? With whom?
  20. Mouse
    Mouse 13 September 2019 19: 08
    +1
    Sorry, of course ... why is this so worrying about the Chinese comrades ???
    1. armata_armata
      armata_armata 13 September 2019 19: 11
      +6
      Sorry, of course ... why is this so worrying about the Chinese comrades ???

      They don’t want to repeat the fate of the USSR, that’s what matters, but so far their services regularly clean the ranks of the party and put potential traitors to the wall, they don’t need to worry
      1. Mouse
        Mouse 13 September 2019 19: 22
        +1
        Quote: armata_armata
        regularly clean the ranks of the party and put potential traitors to the wall; they don’t have to worry

        well, let them clean ... that they so our fate cares? recourse
    2. Ilya Melnov
      Ilya Melnov 13 September 2019 20: 04
      -2
      Quote: Mouse
      Sorry, of course ... why is this so worrying about the Chinese comrades ???

      propaganda of the enemy’s weakness and weakness is very important. It is carried out before the preparation of active hostilities.
      1. Mouse
        Mouse 13 September 2019 20: 09
        +1
        Quote: Ilya Melnov
        It is carried out before the preparation of active hostilities.

        China vs us ???? in the light of existing realities? Do you believe that? recourse
        1. Ilya Melnov
          Ilya Melnov 14 September 2019 01: 47
          +1
          Quote: Mouse
          Quote: Ilya Melnov
          It is carried out before the preparation of active hostilities.

          China vs us ???? in the light of existing realities? Do you believe that? recourse

          wars are different, including economic, and against China, some rulers are scared to scream across, and drain their resources into a pipe.
  21. rocket757
    rocket757 13 September 2019 19: 13
    +6
    There is nothing to answer. No words, only expressions left!
    I will not hang "all the sisters on earrings" either, they will still cross out and "medal" will be hanged for ..... the next one.
    In general, what a power, such a fleet! The land boom.
  22. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 13 September 2019 19: 15
    +1
    Yeah ... 2019 year ... The Chinese realized that the Russian Federation was not at all the USSR ...
    My question is: Their estooooooontsy pokkkuussaaali?
  23. KCA
    KCA 13 September 2019 19: 16
    +1
    There are still disputes regarding the ACG, practice shows their futility, 2 ACG off the coast of the DPRK decided something? No. A stick in Eun’s hands scared Trump. The number of aircraft departures from satellite aerodromes, with various US aggressions, is several orders of magnitude greater than departures from aircraft carriers; the AUG will be able to gouge something, but wage a real war - no, or not for long
    1. Ilya Melnov
      Ilya Melnov 13 September 2019 20: 07
      +1
      Quote: KCA
      There are still disputes regarding the ACG, practice shows their futility, 2 ACG off the coast of the DPRK decided something?

      you sort of share the combat capabilities and the political decision not to start a war. And then you have mixed horses and people ...
      1. KCA
        KCA 14 September 2019 03: 16
        +1
        I have? Here is the commander of the 2nd fleet of the United States, Lewis:
        "The aircraft carrier is a monster. It appears at your shores and if you are not our friend, you quickly become our friend [...]"
        And about the combat capabilities, I specifically pointed out, read about the number of sorties from aircraft carriers and airfields in all wars where the US AUG participated
  24. kefan
    kefan 13 September 2019 19: 16
    +1
    There is nothing surprising in such a deplorable result after the reign of the "marked" and drunkard.
  25. Adimius38
    Adimius38 13 September 2019 19: 18
    +7
    Why did this happen, because the criminals destroyed the country, gave it to the bandits and thieves, the huge industrial enterprises tore to shreds, new destroyers went under the hammer to other countries and where just for cutting for metal. A terrible time, the barbaric destruction of everything that our fathers and grandfathers created. They chopped it alive, while Russia lost most of that great SOVIET Navy. They didn’t sell what they finished, then don’t allocate funds for repairs for years. We had a magnificent civilian fleet, up to multi-deck cruise ships, where is that ??? destroyed, sold, sawed, money divided into gang pockets. Kiev ”a heavy aircraft carrier sold by unknown persons to the PRC in 1993, Minsk was sold to Korea then to the PRC, Novorossiysk was demolished for metal in 1997 in South Korea. Baku (Admiral Gorshkov) was sold to India, Varangian left in Ukraine where he was sold to the PRC. Ulyanovsk- is cut into metal on the stocks of Ukraine at a 20% availability of 27000 tons. Miraculously, our only Admiral Kuznetsov survived thanks to those brave people who pulled the ship out of the clutches of Ukraine and took it to the shores of Russia
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 13 September 2019 21: 27
      -4
      And who was selling it? Are they not holy communists?
      1. Adimius38
        Adimius38 13 September 2019 21: 36
        +1
        it is not the Communists or the political party, but the traitors and not the traitors. And such were then and now
  26. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 13 September 2019 19: 20
    +2
    Question from China: the USSR had 9 aircraft carriers, why did Russia have only one?


    To answer this question:
    A) You need to understand the difference between an "aircraft carrier" and an "aircraft carrier".
    B) It is necessary to learn the history of Russia, especially after 1991.
  27. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 13 September 2019 19: 20
    +1
    - writes Sohu ... that the second aircraft carrier "Ulyanovsk" with a displacement of 80 thousand tons was disassembled into USA...
    ...
    Something with the geography of the Chinese comrades ....
  28. parusnik
    parusnik 13 September 2019 19: 26
    +1
    The Chinese do not understand anything ... If the yachts that have our oligarchs play a little prank, these will be the same aircraft carriers ... The tricky plan ... laughing
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 13 September 2019 19: 38
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      The Chinese do not understand anything ... If the yachts that have our oligarchs play a little prank, these will be the same aircraft carriers ... The tricky plan ...

      laughing here is a mnogohovochka .. obviously "urapatriots" will now adopt your argument .. laughing
      1. Ilya Melnov
        Ilya Melnov 14 September 2019 01: 51
        +1
        Quote: Svarog
        Quote: parusnik
        The Chinese do not understand anything ... If the yachts that have our oligarchs play a little prank, these will be the same aircraft carriers ... The tricky plan ...

        laughing here is a mnogohovochka .. obviously "urapatriots" will now adopt your argument .. laughing

        and what, good helicopter carriers will turn out if you dispossess someone, there’s already even a platform for them! A cunning plan, you order a yacht bypassing sanctions, and then saw off everything that is unnecessary ...
  29. Al Asad
    Al Asad 13 September 2019 19: 34
    -3
    The most interesting thing about the Soviet attitude towards aircraft carriers is no money and we are not interested in an aircraft carrier so let's rivet the pre-aircraft carriers
    1. Adimius38
      Adimius38 13 September 2019 19: 43
      +3
      Well, firstly, this is not a pre-carrier, but a heavy missile cruiser that had impressive weapons for that period, plus an air wing. They did not have time to build a full-fledged aircraft carrier (Ulyanovsk), drunk with a tagged one plundered the country.
      1. Saul_Rhen
        Saul_Rhen 13 September 2019 21: 36
        -2
        The country was ditched by the "wise leadership" of the party for many decades. For example: The project of a normal nuclear aircraft carrier was ready in the 60s, but the "wise leadership" decided to build misunderstandings on the 1143rd project. Or, instead of developing a universal EM (there were preliminary projects based on 1134B), we developed 2 useless projects 1155 and 956 (the latter is itself a vivid example of wise leadership). There are thousands of such examples, but mediocre ideologues continued and continue to ride a rake.
  30. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 13 September 2019 19: 40
    +8
    Because Russia is not some kind of China for you! The main thing in this life is managers, brokers, dealers and merchandisers. And swing into the pipe, everything that creeps into it. The main thing is that the compressor capacities are enough. Such is our main doctrine. As I see here from nonMoscow.
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 13 September 2019 20: 19
      +1
      Quote: Benzorez
      Such is our main doctrine. As I see here from nonMoscow.

      Vitaly, that’s how they see it from Moscow .. Everything starts from the head .. and it ends ..
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. Cry
    Cry 13 September 2019 19: 42
    -2
    One answer
    Gorby sold
    Yeltsin drank
  33. Shuttle
    Shuttle 13 September 2019 19: 44
    +1
    2
    the USSR had 9 aircraft carriers, why did Russia have only one?

    - ... Gorbachev surrendered your homeland to the Americans to hang out beautifully. And now your Motherland has two wars and Crimea has failed! I handed over the Russian people in the Baltic states, I handed over the Serbs in the Balkans, ...

    1. Chechnya
    2. Crimea.

    3. The Baltic states.
    4. Balkans.
    1. ugol2
      ugol2 13 September 2019 21: 30
      +6
      You answer me for Sevastopol!

      5. Sevastopol
  34. Ilya Melnov
    Ilya Melnov 13 September 2019 19: 50
    +1
    something that rotts in the parking lot can hardly be called an aircraft carrier, so what is the question of why not a single one ???
  35. taurtaurov
    taurtaurov 13 September 2019 19: 58
    -6
    Abramovich has a semi Aircraft carrier. Well, it's time to bring out the bourgeois class.
    1. Saul_Rhen
      Saul_Rhen 15 September 2019 00: 23
      +1
      Well ADVERTISE, only graduate school, revolutionary
  36. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 06
    0
    And who needs this pelvis with eroplans
  37. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 08
    -2
    One day there will be a WAR between our STATES! And really everyone will be surprised! In the wars between the countries HEGEMONS, these pelvis will not play any role!
    1. Petrol cutter
      Petrol cutter 13 September 2019 20: 21
      0
      To a degree, there is no reason to disagree.
  38. Shahno
    Shahno 13 September 2019 20: 09
    -1
    Quote: Rusj
    And who needs this pelvis with eroplans

    But who needs these villas, we have a house in the village.
    Doesn't it remind you of anything?
    1. Rusj
      Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 12
      -1
      in a WAR BETWEEN such countries Carrier groups will be destroyed by a nuclear missile
  39. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 10
    -3
    These pelvis will be destroyed in the first minutes of the massacre between such countries!
  40. donavi49
    donavi49 13 September 2019 20: 11
    +4
    By the way, their head UDC (which they collected in less than six months) is already painted and is preparing for the descent. According to rumors, October-November.

    Near the second is under construction - it is painted over by censorship.
    1. Rusj
      Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 14
      -6
      According to rumors, one 100-kiloton rocket drowns everything and a Tsunami-type shock wave flushes everything ashore
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 13 September 2019 20: 16
        +3
        100 kilotons is nothing at all. By modern standards.

        And yes - China has its megatons wink . And they are still enough for unacceptable damage. Well, others will not stand aside and finish off the survivors with a little blood. So this is a Mexican duel in fact. Whoever starts first - he lost.
        1. Rusj
          Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 19
          -3
          1oo kilotons has the power of a dull wave somewhere in 30 meters
        2. Rusj
          Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 22
          -4
          once upon a time I read that a wave of 30 meters would cause the United States unacceptable damage
        3. Rusj
          Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 24
          -3
          and submarines in Russia with incomparable power after their strike for life on the planet pieces 8
        4. Petrol cutter
          Petrol cutter 13 September 2019 20: 27
          +1
          Honestly, if some serious negligence happens with China ... It is unlikely that its outcome will depend on aircraft-carrying cruisers. Well, that's very unlikely ...
      2. armata_armata
        armata_armata 13 September 2019 20: 42
        0
        According to rumors, one 100-kiloton rocket drowns everything and a Tsunami-type shock wave flushes everything ashore

        Does everyone in the world drown? lol
    2. Rusj
      Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 18
      -4
      According to rumors, one submarine has a strike power of several thousand kilotons
    3. Rusj
      Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 27
      0
      and if there are immortal attacks on RUSSIA, then after this massacre we will run with bows and spears through the radioactive wastelands
  41. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 32
    -5
    Russia in one person will cause unacceptable damage to the planet and the enemy if it simply does not destroy the planet and sweep it into asteroids
  42. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 35
    -11
    Russia is the greatest country in the history of mankind, not conquered by anyone, possessing the desire for suicide!
    1. Antares
      Antares 13 September 2019 21: 08
      0
      Quote: Rusj
      Russia is the greatest country in the history of mankind, not conquered by anyone

      umm ... but even if we take the period of Russia (not Russia)
      then offhand.
      The defeat of Russia in the Livonian War (1558-1583)
      Defeat in the Moscow-Swedish War (1610-1617)
      The defeat of Russia in the Crimean War (1853-1856)
      The defeat of Russia in the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905)
      The defeat of Russia in the First World War (1914-1918)
      Chechen War....
      this is so, not counting the little things.
      Quote: Rusj
      suicidal!

      and this is due to the climate and conditions caused by it
      (they brought life to such a level when death in battle did not seem to recruits such a bad fate)
      our ancestors got a zone of risky farming and low humidity with low insolation ..
      Extreme survival.
  43. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 43
    -8
    Comparable strike power of the Russian submarine is not comparable with the integrity of the planet
  44. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 20: 50
    -9
    Once, when everyone runs out of resources and everyone rushes at us, the world will be destroyed
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 14 September 2019 15: 44
      0
      Drink valerian, you have delirium tremens.
  45. ugol2
    ugol2 13 September 2019 20: 53
    +7
    You go to read about the aircraft carriers, and then the US State Debt - Yachts - Abramovich - A pensioner in line for bread.
    Administrator!
    How to collapse all this flood to get to the comments in fact ?!
    Make the comment tree normal already!
  46. Tikhontsov Anatoly Mikhailovich
    Tikhontsov Anatoly Mikhailovich 13 September 2019 21: 12
    +11
    I can’t say anything about aircraft carriers; the military served only urgent; But I know almost everything about sausage in the Soviet period since I lived 73 years. I captured all the times starting with Stalin. Yes, they didn’t live richly but didn’t starve, they worked healthy and eager. There were almost no whalers who did not want to work, they considered them to be parasites. Teachers and doctors were respected, and artists and clowns were paid an adequate salary. The death penalty was used according to the law, so they didn’t steal a lot. They simply dragged the country and why do we need the current democracy of sausages and there is no money. Yes, scarce goods by appointment, go work well and get what you wanted. Personally, when I worked in the village, I got two cars, the refrigerators stood freely and color TVs too. Electricity was water and heating a penny. Yes, people drank because they lived easily and treated alcoholics for free. There weren’t any people who were busy with work and got free housing. I look at I’d like to say that you shouldn’t immediately remove Yeltsin’s drunk from our life and retire. Yes, the Americans outplayed us.
    1. Adimius38
      Adimius38 13 September 2019 21: 44
      +2
      The problem is that many believed Yeltsin, they wanted a beautiful rich and free life. Pensioners of the 90s said so that they’ll have enough communists for us, if they had profit from it, if they knew what was waiting for them further, endangered villages and villages, drunken youth, bandits and drug addicts, robbery of personal savings with all kinds of pyramids mmm
    2. Moskovit
      Moskovit 13 September 2019 22: 01
      +1
      Again, the Americans are to blame. When will we look at ourselves? When we say yes, it’s our own fault.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 September 2019 16: 22
        0
        Quote: Moskovit
        Again, the Americans are to blame.

        And you read the memoirs of Ambassador to the USSR Matlock ...
        1. Moskovit
          Moskovit 14 September 2019 21: 43
          0
          I've lived in a small Siberian town during the Soviet era. I do not think that the clawed hand of the USA reached there.
          I believe that it is political infantilism to blame everything on the West, although of course the United States and the Allies did some subversive work. But we, too, did not lag behind, supporting leftist forces.
  47. Moskovit
    Moskovit 13 September 2019 21: 44
    +1
    They like to get the opinions of some publications from somewhere in the garbage dumps. So China immediately became bad. The Chinese leadership is aware of what will happen to hundreds of millions of Chinese if Russian nuclear missiles hit, for example, the Three Gorges hydroelectric power station. So even without aircraft carriers Russia can protect itself well.
  48. yfast
    yfast 13 September 2019 21: 54
    +2
    What nonsense can be read on the site. Amerikosov want to be rich, be it, you want to be poor, is not a question. They do not find $ 20 billion from the FBI colonels in an apartment. That is the problem. Thieves and scammers are everywhere, just not everywhere they are next to ...
    1. Moskovit
      Moskovit 13 September 2019 21: 59
      0
      We also do not find. We have in rubles. And not only at home. In the car, in the garage, with dad)))
    2. Rusj
      Rusj 13 September 2019 22: 03
      -7
      and I saw how ardent from a cliff with bursts of hands he shot me no matter your Americans
    3. Rusj
      Rusj 13 September 2019 22: 05
      -7
      Our guy was Oleg Yarchenko, he shot bursts from the cliff
  49. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 21: 55
    -6
    clip about special forces in Syria - to the song of Rasteryaev "Combineers" / Russian special forces in Syria
  50. Rusj
    Rusj 13 September 2019 21: 59
    -5
    Russian special forces in Syria