Muscles for the Third Reich

Limited resources

In the book “The Price of Destruction. The Creation and Destruction of the Nazi Economy ”Adam Tuz collected and systematized a unique material that makes you take a fresh look at history World War II. The Hitlerite project of colonization and forced modernization turned out to be utopian in many respects for the banal reason of lack of calories and muscular strength.

So, the middle of 1941 year. 22 June, Hitler writes an encouraging letter to his idol Mussolini:
«

Be that as it may, Duce, our situation as a result of this step cannot worsen; it can only improve. ”

However, by September it became clear that the German army could not continue to attack just as lightning fast. And this was the main idea of ​​the Barbarossa plan - with swift strikes not to give the Red Army time to regroup and replenish supplies. The victorious reports of the Wehrmacht generals in the first months gave way to doubts about the possibility of organizing new offensives by the forces of exhausted troops. And even a clear underestimation of the enemy forces made us think about the advisability of an attack on the east. Halder wrote:

“By the beginning of the war, we had against ourselves about 200 enemy divisions. Now we already have 360 Russian divisions. These divisions, of course, are not so armed and not as equipped as ours, and their command is tactically weaker than ours, but be that as it may, these divisions are. And if we break up a dozen such divisions, the Russians will form a new dozen. ”

Halder, of course, was modest in his description of the enemy and forgot to focus on the high quality of the Russian weapons, which the Germans had not previously encountered in any theater of war. Be that as it may, it is from this moment that the main tragedy of Nazi Germany begins, devoid of sufficient territories and natural resources for waging war. And with that, and with the other the Germans turned, as it turned out, very freely.

Already at the beginning of September 1941 in Germany, they felt the cold breath of a distant war. Reichsbank released a report in which it noted the increase in inflationary pressure on the market. The shelves in the stores were empty, the consumer basket was shrinking, the money supply for the short period increased by 10%, and the mass of buyers rushed to the black market. Barter unprecedented since the post-war era has appeared. They decided to withdraw the excess weight of money by raising taxes, and since the summer of 1941, the rate for legal entities has been raised by 10%, and in January 1942 by another 5%. The situation in the energy market was not in the best way. Coal mining in Germany by the beginning of the summer of 1941 did not cover government spending. Steelworkers complained that the shortage of coal is about 15%, and in the future it can reach a quarter of the needs of the industry. Moreover, by the end of the 1941 year, interruptions in the supply of electricity and heat could be expected - coal hunger was also being selected for the infrastructure of settlements. Keitel saved the situation when he forced the Wehrmacht to abandon previously approved weapons programs from August 41. That is, the Germans have not yet failed near Moscow, and the army already needed to squeeze their appetites. The Luftwaffe was the most fortunate in this story - they just refused to increase the number of aircraft fleets, but the ground forces could suffer more seriously. Already from October 25 to 1941, steel supply for the Wehrmacht decreased to prewar 173 thousand tons. Hitler saved the situation literally two days later by canceling all restrictions on purchases for the ground forces. The reason for this situation was not only a shortage of energy resources, but also an acute shortage of labor. Germany needed a manpower - by the end of the third year of World War II, in the country there were practically no male population in the 20-30 age group in the manufacturing sector. Losses at the front now had to be replaced by older workers of military enterprises - in the following year several hundred thousand men went to the army, which was very difficult to replace. At the same time, there was no need to count on help from the female population - it already accounted for 34% of the workforce, which was the highest value among Western countries. And German industry required millions of workers ...

Zeal of Zaukel

27 February 1942 year, the commissioner general for the workforce in the Third Reich was the hardened uncouth Nazi Fritz Sauckel, who joined the party back in 1923 year. Looking ahead, I’ll say that this position became fatal for Sauckel - in 1946 he was hanged in Nuremberg for crimes against humanity. It is noteworthy that before the defeat near Moscow, “newcomers” human resources worked mainly in agriculture and amounted to only 8,4% of the workforce. When the Moscow Region winter, tragic for the Germans, happened, the industrialists pulled a good part of the blanket over themselves. Sauckel, in accordance with requests, mobilized almost three million people from the beginning of the 1942 to June 1943 for work in Germany. Most of them, naturally, were young men and women from 12 to 25 years. By 1944, the Sauckel’s office drove into the slave labor 7 907 000 people, which amounted to one fifth of the labor resources of the Third Reich. That is, in two years, the labor ombudsman raised the share of foreigners in the country's constantly needing economy by more than two times. Adam Tuz cites the words of Secretary of State Milch about the role of “ostarbeiters” in production, which are characteristic in this connection:

“Ju-87“ Stucka ”at 80% is produced by Russians.”

In military factories, the share of slave labor was even greater - about 34%.

Paradoxically, the Germans neglected the potential of the occupied territories. With an acute shortage of labor at the beginning of the war, they allowed themselves to starve hundreds of thousands of unfortunate captured Red Army soldiers. And even when the Barbarossa crisis was gaining momentum, prisoners of war taken to Germany continued to exist in terrible conditions. Civil workers, driven out (or enticed by deceit) from all over the occupied territories, were also kept in inhuman conditions throughout the war. The Gestapo barely managed to catch the fugitives from the terrible conditions of the Ruhr industrial conglomerate. At first, Sauckel was able to replenish the decline as a result of mortality with new supplies from the East, but this did not work everywhere. Industrialists often complained:

“Because of hunger, up to ten percent of unskilled workers can die, which can be replaced within a couple of days with new ones, but what to do with a specialist engaged in complex production?”

At the same time, many workers had to be taken back to their homeland in order to avoid epidemics, and also because of the negative reaction of the native Germans. Eyewitnesses wrote about such "death trains":

“The returning train was carrying dead passengers. Women traveling on this train gave birth on the way to children who were thrown out of the open window on the go. In the same carriage there were people with tuberculosis and sexually transmitted diseases. “The dying lay in freight cars, where there was not even straw, and one of the dead was thrown into the embankment.”

The Germans did not try to hide the facts of such an inhuman attitude towards people from the civilian population - stinking echelons with dying people often stood on train sidings. As a result, information about all the "charms" of work on the Third Reich reached the eastern lands, and since the fall of 1942, all workforce has now been recruited exclusively by force.

Fritz Sauckel

Economic considerations were clearly at the peak of ideology in the situation of genocide of the Jewish population of Europe. It was obvious that the total destruction of a vast human resource would leave the country's industry without workers. In total, the Germans burned crematoria in the furnaces, starved to death in the ghetto and simply shot at least 2,5 million Jews. This despite the fact that Sauckel was able to force to drive into slave labor for the entire war, only three times more! Adam Tuz calculated that after the crisis 1942 year, the Germans as a result of their atrocities lost a total of about 7 million people - Jews and captured Red Army soldiers, and “Ostarbeiters” who died from unbearable conditions, are here.

Generated Nutrition

One of the factors of high mortality among foreign workers in labor camps was a banal food shortage. Puzzling how to provide the necessary level of labor productivity with invariably meager nutrition, the bosses of the industrial complex came up with the idea of ​​"nutrition through production." In fact, in this case, fats, proteins and carbohydrates were simply redistributed between the workers. If he fulfilled the daily norm, then he received a normal ration, but if not, then he will have to share it with someone who has exceeded the norm. So natural selection worked in the bestial Nazi grin. When the situation on the labor front became completely unbearable for the Germans, at the end of 1944, this logic of food distribution depending on the rate of production became widespread.

Another, much more bloodthirsty tradition is the practice of destruction through hard work. Beginning in Auschwitz, prisoners were brutally exploited in concentration camps, while the seas were starving and totally unsanitary. In addition to the infamous IG Farbenindustrie, concentration camps were not averse to using Siemens, Daimler-Benz, BMW, Steyr Daimler Puch, Heinkel and Messerschmitt. In total, up to 5% of all the needs of the military economy in labor force were provided by prisoners of concentration camps. I must say that the Germans in euphoria even suspended the creation of new death camps, in which people did not live, but were destroyed on the first day of arrival. By 1942, the Nazis overdid it a bit, the tactics of destruction by labor gained too much speed - it was dying more than the SS managed to replenish. The response was an improved medical supply, a bonus system with tobacco and extra rations.

If you look at a retrospective of the attitude of the Germans towards the labor force during World War II, it turns out that from the very beginning there was a kind of disregard for foreign workers. The Holocaust machine worked in full swing, knocking out millions of potential workers from the economy, and hundreds of thousands were dying from overwork. But with the deteriorating situation on the fronts towards the end of the war, the Germans naturally paid special attention to the workers involved. And they even managed to improve productivity in various ways - among French workers it reached 80% of the German level, and among Russian prisoners of war, even in the best of times, it did not exceed 50%. And by 1944, the Germans had to seriously limit the Moloch of the Jewish genocide. In March, the last major rally to exterminate the Jews of Hungary was held. However, the whole war of the Germans was simply torn by the contradiction between hatred of Jews with Slavs and the economic feasibility of using slave labor. And a significant role in this was played by the battle for calories in the Third Reich.

Comments

[Ali Kokand]

The author missed the replacement of natural products with surrogates, which greatly exacerbated the situation. Rutabaga and lentils are not always useful, but if you eat only them, complications are inevitable. Sugar instead of sugar, margarine, etc. And the proverb "If God wants to punish, then deprives him of reason" was not in vain invented.

[Proxima]

The whole of continental Europe worked for Hitler, plus the vast industrialized and densely populated territories of the European part of the USSR, whose GDP almost an order of magnitude (!!!) exceeded the GDP of the remaining Soviet Union. What else Germany lacked is incomprehensible. It is also incomprehensible how our country (or rather, what remains of it) survived all this?

[not main]

Quote: Proxima

The whole of continental Europe worked for Hitler, plus the vast industrialized and densely populated territories of the European part of the USSR, whose GDP almost an order of magnitude (!!!) exceeded the GDP of the remaining Soviet Union. What else Germany lacked is incomprehensible. It is also incomprehensible how our country (or rather, what remains of it) survived all this?

This does not explain! Yes, and it’s already difficult to understand (for youth), it must be experienced! I’m not about myself, but about my and your parents, grandparents ...

[EXPrompt]

Quote: Proxima

The whole of continental Europe worked for Hitler, plus the vast industrialized and densely populated territories of the European part of the USSR, whose GDP almost an order of magnitude (!!!) exceeded the GDP of the remaining Soviet Union. What else Germany lacked is incomprehensible. It is also incomprehensible how our country (or rather, what remains of it) survived all this?

Industrial potential 3 Reich at the beginning of the war 14% of world GDP.
Industrial potential of the USSR 16% of world GDP
US Industrial Potential 40% of GDP
Britain Industrial Potential 8%

In our USSR, not a single day of the 2nd World War was produced tanks less than in Germany in pieces, the same thing in airplanes, even with all the transfers and evacuations of factories.

What Germany lacked from the main thing --- the Fuhrer’s brains with his crazy ideas.
Reliance on pure Aryans in practice meant a commonplace thing, the total number of Aryans in the world was as much as 92 million at the beginning of the war, which was about 15–20 million draft troops for the entire world war. This draft potential was stupidly not enough by 1943 to keep the army at 5,5 million. So all the losses of the great Reich are still in the Kampf Mine.

[zenion]

The author forgot that Germany had France under her feet, which supplied tanks, cars and aircraft engines. Czechoslovakia, which supplied tanks, guns, self-propelled guns, hand weapons, explosives. And also Germany worked in Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Denmark, Holland, Norway, added them Spain, and Portugal, Sweden and America through Portugal rubber and chemicals. South America sent rubber and stuff.

[samarin1969]

In the history of the War, one always had to deal with the pedantic work of the German rear: confiscation of "surplus food", teams to collect weapons, restored collective farms, rations for workers, etc. ... Either Mr. Tuz, or the author himself clearly exaggerated the mistakes of the Germans in mobilizing resources ... Jews and prisoners of the Red Army were destroyed simply because of their danger. And the role of the economy in the Victory was secondary in comparison with the front. By 1944, the German army was inundated with expensive and sophisticated equipment. And in comparison with Leningrad, she ate quite satisfactorily. But millions of those killed cannot be resurrected or replaced by "Gaster".
The article is clearly strongly ideologized and questionable in its conclusions.

[Olgovich]

Quote: samarin1969

And the role of the economy in Victory was secondary in comparison with the front.

In any war, it is the economy that wins (loses).
Germany had no chance against the aggregate economies and resources of the allies

[samarin1969]

Quote: Olgovich

Germany had no chance against the aggregate economies and resources of the allies

Then the USSR had no chance against the economy of a united Europe. Lendlis is only 4% of the needs.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: samarin1969

Lendlis is only 4% of the needs.

Not 4%, they have already left this stamp. And those deliveries that were under Lend-Lease covered the demand for some materials and resources required by the USSR for warfare by 100%. For example, the needs of gunpowder and explosives were 30% overlapped (excluding the supply of ammunition for equipment), food, in terms of calories rations of the Red Army - 10 million days, high-octane gasoline 100%, etc.

[zenion]

Of course cars, almost a hundred percent and tires. But do not forget that even more from the Americans received the Germans. If you remember, give both of them and let them kill each other as much as possible. You also need to remember that neither tanks, nor planes, nor even a rifle itself aims and does not kill itself. Everyone needs a person. Here is what in the USSR they managed, besides enterprises, to teach people to fight, and DOSAAF and other organizations taught them before the war, this is a plus. The Germans also began to teach the population a new way of war, but despite the high level of education in schools, the Germans did not have what the people of the USSR had - to defend their homeland.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: zenion

But do not forget that even more from the Americans received the Germans.

can you confirm it?

[zenion]

In 2000, the Americans extended their secrecy to documents which banks cooperated with the Germans until 2050. When the chief archivist was asked why, he answered, as if with humor, that the government did not want Jewish pogroms to begin in the States. You apparently did not look at the beginning of the two thousandth year summarizing the two thousand years. They asked such questions and there were answers that made me think. In addition, you did not read the volume of the Nuremberg Tribunal, especially Goering’s interrogations during the trial. There he was not allowed to speak. And when he remembered the USA, he was turned out of the hall by force. Prosecutor, nearly died of anger.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: zenion

which banks collaborated with the Germans until 2050.

what year? And what does the jar have to do with it?

[zenion]

So you don’t understand right away. You know about the Gulf Stream. So the American canneries took three liter cans, filled with gold, rolled up, and threw it into this course. And German submarines caught these banks with fishing rods and sent them to the Reichsbank in order to buy slaves and oxen in the conquered countries. The biggest secret is how many cans the sharks swallowed, how many were stolen and why the Russians did not send the cans to the cans. By the way, many cans died in the Reichsbank, for the reason that the seals were left-handed, that is, from right to left. They disappeared forever and can be opened in 2050, when the thread gets wet. In general, it was necessary to study this since childhood nurseries.

[karabass]

Decipher this nonsense

[naidas]

On December 13, 1941, the US president even issued a special decree that allowed doing business with companies of enemy states.
“Standard Oil regularly supplied Hitler’s army with various fuels, and it supplied synthetic rubber and various raw materials to the industry. During World War II, not a single Standard Oil tanker was sunk by German submarines.
-American "ITT" traded until the end of the war with Germany, Italy, Japan
-The Opel automobile plant, for example, produced nothing but military products. It owned the General Motors plant.
-GM and Ford, with the help of subsidiaries, controlled 70% of the German car market. Those companies “quickly retrofitted production to become suppliers of military equipment for the German army,” GM and Ford provided 90% of the armored 3-ton semi-trucks and more than 70% of medium and large Reich trucks.
GE’s conspiracy with German steel company Krupp influenced US military efforts and brought it to a New York court. Hitler received 12 pounds of tungsten carbide for the same price as the US government paid for 1 pound.
- The Senate Commission (1943), led by him, determined the amount of US investment in Germany at $ 1 billion and control 278 German joint stock companies
- Under the terms of cartel agreements, American firms had to inform their German partners of all the technical innovations of interest to them. So, the Bauschand Lomb company willingly provided Zeiss with US military secrets and only asked to keep all information secret.
-Kodak is not only a film strip, there was also a cinema machine on every Luftwaffe fighter, which helped German pilots fix and further analyze the situation, but also set up the production of detonators
-Coca-cola invented a new drink specifically for the Nazis: Fanta fruit soda.
-IBM created machines to keep statistics on oil supplies, manage bank accounts and monitor train schedules for death camps.
-The company Random House (American edition), part of Bertelsmann AG, was engaged in the publication of Nazi propaganda

Higham Charles - Trade with the Enemy

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: naidas

On December 13, 1941, the US president even issued a special decree that allowed doing business with companies of enemy states.

can I look at this decree?

Quote: naidas

The Opel automobile plant, for example, did not produce anything other than military products. It owned the General Motors plant.

she owned until the Nazis came to power, and then was nationalized by them, as were Ford's enterprises in Europe and Germany

Quote: naidas

Coca-cola invented a new drink, especially for the Nazis: Fanta fruit sparkling water.

lying again:

The head office of Coca-Cola Company acquired the rights to the Fanta trademark in 1960. The drink was born in 1940 in Germany during the Second World War. because of embargo imposed by the anti-Hitler coalition The supply of syrup to Germany for the production of Coca-Cola was suspended. Then Max Kite, who was responsible for the work of the Coca-Cola unit in Germany during the Second World War, decided to create a new product based on the ingredients that were available in Germany at that time. The name of the drink was the result of a collective discussion that began with Kite urging the participants to “use their imagination” (in German - “Fantasie”), to which one of those present, Joe Knipp, immediately said “Fanta!”

There is no desire to expose you on every fact of your opus, I will say only one thing, if there was any kind of cooperation, it was between Germany and some representatives of American business, and this is not the same as the cooperation between Germany and the USA. Yours

Quote: naidas

GE's agreement with German steel company Krupp impacted US military efforts and brought it to New York court

confirms that the United States, to put it mildly, did not welcome this, therefore it was created

Quote: naidas

Senate Commission (1943)

Judging by your logic, the Nazi service of more than 2 million of our compatriots, collaborators and the active cooperation of millions of citizens in the occupied territory is also the help of the USSR to the Nazis?

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

if there was any kind of cooperation, then it was between Germany and some representatives of American business, and this is not the same thing as cooperation between Germany and the USA.

And here you are disingenuous - as soon as the US government introduced an embargo against today's Russia, all American companies immediately carried out the "fas" command, and nothing prevented them from doing this in 1941 after the signing of the Lend-Lease law against Germany. I don't remember KOCOM restrictions - many simply do not know how it worked against the USSR, but all Western companies were afraid to violate their requirements.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

And here you are disingenuous

you do not confuse the realities of that time and ours? A network of subsidiaries in neutral or occupied Europe did not interfere with the obstruction of these companies, and the Senate commission did work and the court was, interestingly, and you don’t know about the consequences?

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

you do not confuse the realities of that time and ours?

No, I don’t confuse, because Grandfather Lenin taught us that the essence of imperialism does not change over time - this is of course a simplified conclusion of the leader of the proletariat in my words.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

No, I don’t confuse, because Grandfather Lenin taught us that the essence of imperialism does not change over time

I agree, but now we are not talking about the essence of imperialism.

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

I agree, but now we are not talking about the essence of imperialism.

We are talking about the corruption of the Western elite - it has always been like that, which is why their help, if not direct, to Hitler during the Second World War is not surprising.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

We are about the corruption of the Western elite

You maybe, but it was about another

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Judging by your logic, the Nazi service of more than 2 million of our compatriots, collaborators and the active cooperation of millions of citizens in the occupied territory is also the help of the USSR to the Nazis?

Where does the figure come from if the Vlasov army in April 1945 numbered 120-130 thousand traitors to the motherland?

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

Where does the tsifir come from if Vlasov’s army

not a single army of Vlasov, as they say, type Soviet collaborators in a search engine and you will be unpleasantly surprised.

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

not a single army of Vlasov, as they say, type Soviet collaborators in a search engine and you will be unpleasantly surprised.

The elder in the village appointed by the Germans under the threat of execution and who helped our partisans - is he your collaborator if the Germans paid him money?

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

Warden in the village

I’m talking about military units and units, and you are talking about me

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

I’m talking about military units and units, and you are talking about me

Well, name in which German units 2 million of our compatriots served - it is very interesting to know.

[naidas]

I only read about Max Kite, you are lying impudently, you don’t know who it is and whose interests it represented.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Judging by your logic,

This is your logic, beat yourself on the forehead, there were both, but the bulk served to survive, and not to earn, unlike the representatives of the US business in Germany.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: naidas

you are brazenly lying

in what

Quote: naidas

you don’t know who it is and whose interests it represented.

well enlighten, with links

Quote: naidas

the bulk served to survive, not to earn

what are you? Read an advertising poster calling for work in Germany, and look at the "haggard" faces of the Ostarbeiters at the beginning of the article, not one size fits all. Concerning

Quote: naidas

survive, not make money, unlike US business representatives

in this world everyone survives and earns, just the scales are different, and in Germany at that time earn and survive for

Quote: naidas

business representatives

was synonymous given their nationality. So that

Quote: naidas

beat yourself on the forehead

themselves

[naidas]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

in what

regarding Coca-Cola Company.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

The head office of Coca-Cola Company acquired the rights to the Fanta trademark in 1960.

and here they lied. Answer the question from whom you purchased?

Quote: Pedrodepackes

in this world everyone survives and earns, just different scales,

Then why did the USSR not trade during the war with Germany?

Quote: Pedrodepackes

well enlighten, with links

links in the post of September 15, 2019 18:25, the same source.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

can I look at this decree?

referenced by decree:
http://modernlib.net/books/hayem_charlz/torgovlya_s_vragom/
somewhere in the beginning and in the middle in the letter.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: naidas

referenced by decree:

But what is the decree about? Where is he?

The main theme of the book is to show how the pursuit of profits US monopolies, on the one hand, and Nazi Germany, on the other

read carefully, I already wrote in one of the comments that the USA and the US monopolies are different things

Quote: naidas

and here they lied. Answer the question from whom you purchased?

from German manufacturers, do you have other facts? Bring. And, in any case, it was not the United States that produced "Fanta" for Germany, as you lied to here.

[naidas]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

USA and US monopolies are two different things

Thanks hung, I will remind.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

But what is the decree about? Where is he?

Documents in the USA from WWII are not yet disclosed; the book contains links from correspondence. To believe or not to believe the officials indicated in the correspondence is up to you.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

from German manufacturers, do you have other facts?

Quote: naidas

Quote: Pedrodepacks The Coca-Cola Company headquarters acquired the rights to the Fanta trademark in 1960.

It’s written by you, so answer which company. But what for then, in this discussion, Pedrodepacks is needed?

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: naidas

Written by you, here is the answer.

I already wrote, the parent company Coca-Cola Company acquired the rights to the Fanta trademark from a German manufacturer. I understand that you only have a question with Fanta left open?

Quote: naidas

documents in the USA from WWII are not yet disclosed

I did not read but condemn

somewhere I already heard about it

By the way, the author positively highlights the activities of the FBI and its director E. Hoover to identify and suppress ties between American business and Nazi Germany, as well as the subversive activities of the Nazis in the United States.

from the foreword of the book, read carefully and figure out where the USA (state) is and where the US monopolies are

[naidas]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

I already wrote, the parent company Coca-Cola Company acquired the rights to the Fanta trademark from a German manufacturer.

You can’t confirm with which company it’s useless. I don’t know from anyone, but I affirm. Can you help one German company with the German branch for help? Although this will not help you.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

somewhere I already heard about it

Well, here it’s clear I didn’t read the correspondence of officials, but I deny, there was no decree.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

From the foreword of the book, read carefully and figure out where the US (state) is and where the US monopolies are.

And you about it from the foreword:
... Really the governments of the USA and Great Britain did not know what was going on under their noses? The data presented in the book leave no doubt about this: in the highest government bodies of Washington and London, they not only knew, but in many cases sanctioned such frauds ....

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: naidas

It is useless to ask which company

you specifically stupid or such a life? Coca-Cola German division where the drink was invented

Quote: naidas

: in the highest government instances of Washington and London, they not only knew, but in many cases sanctioned such frauds.

He rightly points to the clogging of Washington's official departments with reactionary figures who sympathized with the Nazis and, in many cases, acted as proxies for monopolies and banks associated with Nazi business. Acheson, the Dulles brothers, James Forrestal - these are just some of the characters from this clan of American politicians who indulged in ties with the Nazi business.

also from there, only you expand your template to the notion that the United States is not the USSR, where everything was under the control of Stalin, there were different parties, including and pro-Nazi, and so the United States (state) with the help of the FBI suppressed these ties. But the USA, as a state, did not trade with Germany after the declaration of war. Give a link, which Lend-Lease article provided for this and how many $ million were allocated for this. Take the time to answer, I’m going to bed, I’m fishing tomorrow.

[naidas]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

also from there, only you expand your template to the notion that the USA is not the USSR,

Actually, you didn’t start talking about it, so expand your template yourself:

Pedrodepakes (Alex) September 13, 2019 21:26 p.m.
Quote: zenion
But do not forget that even more from the Americans received the Germans.
Pedrodepacks - can you confirm this?
Which was confirmed to you.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

you specifically stupid or such a life? Coca-Cola German division where the drink was invented

Well, finally it dawned once again. So the American company.
And repeat: the Senate Commission (1943), determined the amount of US investment in Germany at $ 1 billion and the control of 278 German joint-stock companies.
I hope the Senate is considered a government body in your opinion, and knew about trade, and whom did you punish? The answer is clear to almost anyone, or will you challenge ?.

[Pedrodepackes]

I understand that I can’t wait for links to state aid from the USA to Germany, i.e. all your verbal flow is only blah blah blah

Quote: naidas

Which was confirmed to you.

than? The allegations that I have denied? Only one Fanta left? So about her

Quote: naidas

So the company is American.

the company was American until the age of 41, then the Nazis nationalized it from their own materials (because EMBARGO was imposed on the supply of materials by the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition), they invented and made a drink according to their own recipe, so it’s natural that observing the rules of intellectual property property, now an American company bought a patent for the manufacture of Fanta. Is it clear now?

Quote: naidas

I hope the Senate is considered a government body in your opinion, and knew about trade, and whom did you punish?

The Senate does not punish, but with his submission E. Hoover led the FBI carried out work

to identify and suppress the ties of American business with Nazi Germany, as well as the subversive activities of the Nazis in the United States.

this is from a book, by the way, which is a dogma for you, you will not dispute, I hope?

Quote: naidas

determined the amount of US investment in Germany at $ 1 billion and the control of 278 German joint stock companies.

So what? For how long and with what mechanisms? how can you punish a bank that is in neutral Switzerland?

[naidas]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

I understand that I can’t wait for links to state aid from the USA to Germany

Repeat for Pedrodepakes, about coming up with about US state aid:

Quote: Pedrodepackes

But do not forget that even more from the Americans received the Germans.
Pedrodepacks - can you confirm this?
Which was confirmed to you.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Only one Fanta left? So about her

So apart from Juice Cola and Ford, nothing is refuted.
In this lie about the nationalization and the appropriation of the name Fanta.
I suppose, apart from talking about privatization, you have nothing.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

this is from a book, by the way, which is a dogma for you, you will not dispute, I hope?

This is from a book to which, you can give examples, documents, if you use a source. While talk.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

So what? For how long and with what mechanisms?

on the dates partially in the article on IN:
Lend-lease for Hitler on November 5, 2013, there are other sources there, about your nonsense about the nationalization of Ford under the Nazis, the company received compensation from the US government "for damage to their property in enemy territory."

[goose]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

Not 4%, already left this stamp

Please compare with the size and timeliness of assistance from Mongolia and feel the difference. Millions of horses from Mongolia in 1941 are far more valuable than tens of thousands of trucks at the end of 1944. By horse equipping the army, by 1942 the Red Army almost overtook Germany.
Winter clothes, leather, shoes - all this was of good quality and arrived in the most difficult years of 1941-1942.
The amount of food was cosmic, more than all Lend-Lease food supplies.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

100% high-octane gasoline

It’s not true, where did you distribute B100 gasoline from reforming units from Grozny and Leningrad?

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

Millions of horses from Mongolia in 1941

In March, 1942, the Mongolian authorities adopted a decree on the purchase of horses at specially set state prices.

From June 1941 to the end of 1945, the USSR imported from Mongolia .... 0,4 million horses

well, it does not converge in any way, neither in quantity nor in dates. In addition, in the large-scale offensives of the Red Army in 1944, trucks were much more valuable than horses because of the speed and volume of cargo transported, after all, World War II was a "war of engines".

Lend-Lease food supplies were of paramount importance for the Soviet Union in general and for the Red Army in particular (1 tons were delivered from the USA alone)

Almost 500 thousand tons of meat were delivered from Mongolia as equally valuable help to the warring USSR.

and here we must take into account that this meat from Mongolia was supplied in live weight, and if you remove horns, hooves and offal from this weight, and even boil it to the state of American stew, then this weight will decrease by a factor of three (see the norms of meat boiling)
And most importantly:

The Soviet Union paid Mongolia throughout the war food and industrial goods.

The United States did not require payment for land lease during the war. So before you bring any facts, at least you look at Wikipedia, at least look and think a little.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

It’s not true, where did you distribute B100 gasoline from reforming units from Grozny and Leningrad?

I forgot about gasoline, firstly, the B-100 was not produced in the USSR from the word at all, the maximum of the B-78 and was delivered by US Lend-Lease. Secondly, the B-78 was no longer high-octane gasoline, but it was also produced using exclusively octane-increasing additives supplied from the USA, so it was produced in the USSR, but from raw materials supplied under Lend-Lease

[goose]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

B-100 was not made in the USSR from the word at all

Where does such a religion come from?
There are several books on the history of the development of petrochemistry in the USSR. Their data are confirmed by the results of construction following the results of five-year plans.
I indicated to you the places where B-100 gasoline was produced. In these cities, technological units of cat. cracking, reforming and other important technological units for the production of high-octane gasoline. There were 6 more installations, but much less power, and provided less qualified personnel. Low-octane gasoline B-70 was actually the raw material for these plants. In 1941, only the isomerization units were absent in the USSR, which made it possible to obtain stable grades of gasoline with an octane rating of more than 120. None of the units for deep oil refining were captured by the Germans. The octane limit for industrial lots of commodity quantities was around 100.
Reforming, catalytic cracking and oil refining units have been operating since 1936.
The operation of the plants depended on the extraction and processing of platinum and vanadium.
Exports of platinum from the USSR in 1941-1946 allowed a sharp increase in the production of high-octane fuel in the United States to the detriment of domestic plants. In the USSR, the energy balance for their work dipped and the size of production really fell until 1943.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

I indicated to you the places where B-100 gasoline was produced.

Where do you get the data from?

It should be noted that in the prewar period, the Soviet government nevertheless took certain measures to expand sectoral geography and create new industries for the production of high-quality motor fuels. According to the draft plan for the development of the national economy for 1941, the increase in cracking capacities was to be 600 thousand tons, for isooctane plants - 87 thousand tons, for alkyl-gasoline plants - 65 thousand tons. It was planned to complete the construction of the third and fourth lines of the Ufa refinery, the second and third - the Moscow refinery, the second - the Kherson refinery, as well as the construction of oil refineries in Syzran, Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Voronezh, Molotov, Armavir, Krasnovodsk and Buguruslan. It was also planned to create new units for thermal reforming and sulfate alkylation in Baku and Grozny.Also, the construction plan for the production of cracking equipment in Stalingrad was included in the capital construction plan for 1941 [14].
In the same period, in Leningrad, the installation of a pilot plant for testing catalytic cracking technology was started, and in the Yaroslavl region at the Konstantinovsky plant named after D. I. Mendeleev began the construction of a pilot plant for the vapor-phase oxidative cracking process.

and even later, during the Second World War, there was no talk about domestic 100-octane gasoline:

On July 15, 1942, at a meeting of the State Defense Committee, they considered the question "On a plan for oil production, production of oil products, and material and technical support for the oil industry in the III quarter of 1942." In the adopted resolution for oil refineries of the People’s Commissariat of the Oil Industry for the III quarter of 1942, a plan was set for the production of aviation gasolines in the amount of 392,2 thousand tons, including 210 thousand tons of B-78 gasoline and 156 thousand tons of B-70. Here, the plan for July 1942 was also defined: 130,8 thousand tons of gasoline, including 70 thousand tons of B-78 and 52 thousand tons of B-70

gasoline with an octane rating of 100, even now we do not produce

[goose]

Gasoline Extra-100 in small quantities was obtained in Baku by direct distillation immediately after the Civil War. This provided only development work, as yield was less than 1%
Industrial methods for producing gasoline with an octane rating of more than 70 before the war:
Melia Alexey Alexandrovich. Mobilization preparation of the national economy of the USSR
. [media = http: //militera.lib.ru/research/melia_aa/10.html] (This book does not describe in detail the work in Grozny, which had the largest scale in quantity)

- Catalytic cracking made it possible to produce gasoline with an octane rating of 78–80. With a small addition of TPP 2 cubic meters. cm / kg, the octane number was 100. By the beginning of 1941, the process was under development. The installation in Leningrad was under commissioning;

- The vapor-phase oxidative cracking process of the Dubrovay-Soviet system produced fuel with an octane rating of 81. When adding 3 cubic meters. cm / kg TPP, the octane number was 87–88. At the beginning of 1941, the Konstantinovsky plant had a working installation. In Sumgait, it was planned to build a plant with a capacity of 500 tons / day (commissioning was supposed in early 1943);

- Thermal reforming made it possible to obtain aviation gasoline with an octane rating of 75–78. Work was carried out on installations in Baku and Grozny;

- Catalytic reforming made it possible to obtain aviation gasoline with an octane rating of 75–80. One installation was converted in Grozny;

- Catalytic sulfuric acid alkylation made it possible to obtain high-octane alkylbenzene (a component of 100-octane fuel). High-octane fuel plants designed sulfuric acid alkylation plants.

The construction of three units for the catalytic polymerization process in Ufa, Saratov and Grozny {293} was also carried out. [222]

According to the draft national economic development plan for 1941, the increase in cracking capacities was to reach 600 thousand tons, for isooctane plants - 87 thousand tons, for alkyl-gasoline plants - 65 thousand tons. Construction III and IV stages of Ufa, II and III stages of Moscow, I stage of Komsomolsky, I stage of Syzransky, II stage of Osipensky, II stage of Kherson oil refineries, as well as plants No. 4 in Shaumyansky district, No. 9 and No. 11 in Baku, plants No. 2, No. 3 and 9 in Grozny, plant number 3 in Voronezh. It was planned to start the construction of oil refineries in Molotov, Armavir, Krasnovodsk, Buturuslan. Also, the construction plan for the cracking equipment in Stalingrad {1941} was included in the capital construction plan for 294.

The production of high-octane gasoline during the war (Leaded aviation gasoline of the pre-war American standard with an octane rating of more than 88). 1/3 is far from zero.
[media = http: //www.oilru.com/nr/231/5718/]
[media = https: //burneft.ru/docs/archived_docs/articles_tek/40]

in the last war years, the production of aircraft fuel in the USSR for two-thirds depended on imported high-octane components for obvious reasons was not advertised among specialists "

[goose]

The structure of domestic gasolines before the war with an octane rating of 59-95
https://neftegaz.ru/tech-library/energoresursy-toplivo/142516-aviatsionnoe-toplivo/

Varieties of Soviet aviation gasolines were previously labeled according to the system: the letter B and a hyphen - a number indicating an octane number.

As an example, in the USSR in the mid-20th century aviation gasoline was produced - B-59, B-70, B-74, B-78b and B-78g, with the last two slightly different in chemical composition, which was indicated by the letters after the number: b - This is from Baku oil fields, and g - from Grozny.

Subsequently, to increase the octane number, an antiknock additive was introduced into gasoline:

- product R-9 (tetraethyl lead - 55%, ethyl bromide - 35%, monochloronaphthalene - 10%, red dye);

- product B-20 (tetraethyl lead - 55%, ethyl bromide - 35%, dichloroethane - 10%, blue dye);

Additive was added in volume from 1 to 4 cubic meters. see liquids per 1 liter. Additive gasolines were marked:

- based on B-59: 1B-59 (73), 2B-59 (78), 3B-59 (81), 4B-59 (82)

- based on B-70: 1B-70 (80), 2B-70 (85), 3B-70 (87), 4B-70 (88)

- based on B-74: 1B-74 (85), 2B-74 (88), 3B-74 (90), 4B-74 (92)

- based on B-78: 1B-78 (87), 2B-78 (92), 3B-78 (93), 4B-78 (95)

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

Gasoline Extra-100 in small quantities was obtained in Baku by direct distillation immediately after the Civil War. This provided only development work, as yield was less than 1%

less than 1%

Quote: goose

1/3 is far from zero.

the quote you quote indicates

Quote: goose

in recent war years, the production of aircraft fuel in the USSR two-thirds depended on imported high-octane components

jet fuel is not always high-octane gasoline, all domestic equipment flew B-78 gasoline, and this is no longer high-octane gas by the standards and, secondly, do not forget about the 8 refineries and other equipment for refineries supplied to us by the Americans that were used to produce aviation gasoline , i.e. in fact, it was done on the territory of the USSR, but with the help of the United States.

[goose]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

all domestic equipment flew B-78 gasoline, and this is no longer high-octane gas by the standards and, secondly

The M-105P and PF and M-82F and FN engines, the main ones for the Red Army Air Force, flew gasoline 3,5B-78 or 4B78 with an octane rating of 91-95, fully produced in the USSR.
These gasolines were tested.
B-70 gasoline could be poured in exceptional cases.

Imported and domestic gasolines with an octane rating> = 99 naturally increased the performance of these engines. Since 1944, the characteristics of the engines were taken using gasoline obtained from the new American cracking units of Goodry. After the addition of Soviet anti-knock additives, the octane number of such gasoline was in the range of 103-118.
This is written in the cited sources.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

This is written in the cited sources.

and what new have you brought to our dialogue?

[goose]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

and what new have you brought to our dialogue?

Quote: Pedrodepackes

jet fuel is not always high-octane gas, all domestic equipment flew B-78 gasoline

You claimed that all aircraft flew on the B-78, which, revealing, said that it was not on a pure B-78, but on its alkylated modifications, which are still high-octane gasoline.
Moreover, gasoline of later generations, released on American equipment.
This whole problem would not have stood at all if the war had begun 3 years later.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

You claimed that all aircraft flew on the B-78,

new aircraft and I continue to argue, because we did not have the best,
and our dispute developed from the fact that the needs for high-octane gasoline of the Red Army Air Force were met almost entirely by Lend-Lease deliveries, both direct and refinery and octane-raising additives

Quote: goose

Moreover, gasoline of later generations, released on American equipment.

Quote: goose

B-78, and on its alkyl modifications, which are still high-octane gasoline

and what then to call gasoline from B-87 and higher?

Quote: goose

This whole problem would not have stood at all if the war had begun 3 years later.

if my grandmother had Faberge ... well, then you know. And let's end there.

[goose]

Let's finish.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

and what then to call gasoline from B-87 and higher?

You read a little. B-87 is a brand of gasoline after a cracking unit. The brand is set at the octane equivalent. Modified gasoline is refueled with an increased octane rating. Unmodified gasoline and separately antiknock additives (in which there was no such sharpness) were supplied to us by Lend-Lease.
In addition, our conversation did not affect the technology for producing high-octane gasoline from coal by hydrogenation (the same German one). And this technology was sufficient to produce high-octane gasoline with a number of at least 87, but it was very expensive in terms of energy, the cost was at least 60% higher than that of gasoline obtained from distillation.
Those. in fact, our entire debate rested on the causes of the gasoline component of Lend-Lease: an acute shortage of labor resources in the first place, in the second - lack of equipment, in the third - lack of raw materials, and only in the fourth - technological backwardness.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: goose

and only in the fourth - technological backwardness.

here you are driving towards, but I’ve just discussed the volume of deliveries and help with lend-lease in general. You get rid of these complexes.

[Olgovich]

Quote: samarin1969

Then the USSR had no chance against the economy of a united Europe.

The USSR fought in the UNION with TENS of Styran, incl. USA.
Germany has no chance.

[zenion]

Where and when together with the USSR they defended Stalingrad and fought on the Kursk Bulge. Who, together with the Red Army, finished off the Germans in Pomerania and on the way to Berlin. The Allies waited until the last, and then went to save the West from the Asian hordes.

[goose]

Quote: zenion

from Asian hordes.

From Asian hordes from the Moscow region, Gorky, Leningrad, Rostov, Kiev and Samara?
About 85% of the mobilization resource of the USSR was in Europe.

[kalibr]

you read the official message ow. government in the TRUTH of June 11 1944 year. Then compare with the number of the same issued here ...% it’s easy to calculate ... And mind you, this is until 11 JUNE ... and not until 2 September 1945 !!!

[ccsr]

Quote: Olgovich

Germany had no chance against the aggregate economies and resources of the allies

A controversial statement, especially when you consider that the Soviet Union became an ally after June 22, 1941. So if there would have been no attack on the USSR, which was the main reason for the defeat of fascist Germany, it is still unknown who would have fallen before - England in the blockade by the German submarine fleet would hardly have survived 1942. And this is well known by their own sources, when the supply of raw materials to the UK fell significantly due to losses in shipping. But this is all from the realm of alternative history, and therefore we can only speculate on this.

[Olgovich]

Quote: ccsr

A controversial statement, especially when you consider that the Soviet Union became an ally after June 22, 1941.

Irrefutable, not controversial

Quote: ccsr

So if there would have been no attack on the USSR, which was the main reason for the defeat of fascist Germany, it is still unknown who would have fallen before - England in the blockade by the German submarine fleet would hardly have survived 1942. And this is well known by their own sources, when the supply of raw materials to the UK fell significantly due to losses in shipping.

This fleet was not omnipotent. The British fleet was stronger. Supplies fell, then quickly found the antidote to PF, supplies increased, and by the end of the PF in Germany there were generally miserable flaws.

Hitler had a chance in the blitz, but he was unable to cross the English Channel ... And then the USA entered the battle .....

[ccsr]

Quote: Olgovich

This fleet was not omnipotent. The British fleet was stronger.

Therefore, the British howled that by the summer of 1942, their economy would collapse due to failures in the supply of raw materials. Something not very much their fleet in this regard rescued.

Quote: Olgovich

and by the end of the German PF, there were generally poor patches.

This is a consequence of the war with the USSR, and not the fact that the British successfully defeated the German submarine fleet.

[Olgovich]

Quote: ccsr

Therefore, the British howled that by the summer of 1942 their economy would collapse due to failures in the supply of raw materials. Something is not very their fleet in this regard rescued

Bailed out

Quote: ccsr

This is a consequence of the war with the USSR, and not the fact that the British successfully defeated the German submarine fleet.

And where did the USSR drown all the submarine’s herms?

[ccsr]

Quote: Olgovich

And where did the USSR drown all the submarine’s herms?

Money and resources began to be allocated less for their improvement and training of crews.
Some of the boats were destroyed in the Baltic Sea not without the participation of our Navy, so our contribution is obvious.

[bubalik]

Some of the boats were destroyed in the Baltic Sea not without the participation of our Navy, so our contribution is obvious.

,,, during the Second World War, the combat losses of the Kriegsmarine amounted to 766 submarines
,,, the contribution of the USSR to the unconditional victims attributed 20 submarines, to the possible - 8.

[ccsr]

Quote: bubalik

, the contribution of the USSR to the unconditional victims included 20 submarines, to the possible - 8.

So they were not enough for the complete blockade of England - how do you like this approach?

[bubalik]

,,, so I agree with you that

Therefore, the British howled that by the summer of 1942, their economy would collapse due to failures in the supply of raw materials. Something not very much their fleet in this regard rescued.

,,, the contribution of the USSR was

obvious

in causing damage to the Kriegsmarine, but not substantial.

[kalibr]

Quote: ccsr

So they were not enough for the complete blockade of England - how do you like this approach?

Stupid!

[ccsr]

Quote: kalibr

Stupid!

Stupid for amateurs, because as military professionals say, "The last battalion will decide the outcome."
It may be exaggerated, but the essence is obvious.

[hohol95]

Even drowning, and then lifting one U-250, our sailors did a great job. We dealt with the new German torpedo and shared these secrets with British colleagues.
So forget about the available forces of our fleets and naval air forces!
For that time, the results are quite decent!

[Olgovich]

Quote: ccsr

Money and resources began to be allocated less for their improvement and training of crews.

what does this have to do with the rout of the already existing German submarine? What did we say?

Quote: ccsr

Some of the boats were destroyed in the Baltic Sea not without the participation of our Navy, so our contribution is obvious.

What do you compare incomparable? How many submarines were sunk by the allies and how many are we?
Our contribution to the Victory, of course, is decisive, but not in this.

[hohol95]

How many submarines the Third Reich and its allies threw against Britain and the USA, and how many against the USSR! Hence the numbers of losses!
Then you can compare the number of German, Romanian, Hungarian, Italian and Finnish armored vehicles (tanks, self-propelled guns, armored vehicles, armored personnel carriers) destroyed by the Red Army and destroyed by soldiers of Britain, the United States and France.

[Olgovich]

Quote: hohol95

How many submarines the Third Reich and its allies threw against Britain and the USA, and how many against the USSR! Hence the numbers of losses!

And how many? Hence and compare!

Quote: hohol95

Then you can compare the number of German, Romanian, Hungarian, Italian and Finnish armored vehicles (tanks, self-propelled guns, armored vehicles, armored personnel carriers) destroyed by the Red Army and destroyed by soldiers of Britain, the United States and France.

Yes, yes: a submarine against convoys is it against the USA against the USSR?

[hohol95]

Northern convoys were guarded only by the Northern Fleet? Or were British sailors and pilots the main defenders?
Let's not crush the water in the mortar!

[Olgovich]

Quote: hohol95

Northern convoys were guarded only by the Northern Fleet? Or were British sailors and pilots the main defenders?
Let's not crush the water in the mortar!

So do not push, dividing the submarines into those that fought only against those or only against these!

[zenion]

Probably, therefore, that he was not capable, Hess flew to Abortania with such a secret mission that his citizens at 90 years strangled him.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

England in the blockade by the German submarine fleet would hardly have survived 1942.

why such a conclusion? In the 40th, having received a rebuff in the battle for England and in the battle for the Atlantic, Hitler waved his hand at Britain and began to prepare for a campaign to the east. Is this not a recognition of the failure of their plans for the capture of Great Britain?

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

why such a conclusion?

From statistics on supplies of raw materials to the UK.

An important condition for the successful development of the military economy was the availability of sufficient supplies of raw materials and food. However, its growth was adversely affected by the difficulties in fuel supply. In 1942, Great Britain imported 10,2 million tons of oil, or 2,8 million tons less than in 1941. Due to the technical backwardness of the coal industry and the deteriorating working conditions of miners, coal production decreased: in 1939 it amounted to 231,3 million tons, in 1942 - 205 million tons. In May 1942, 17 thousand tons less coal was mined weekly than in April of the same year1. However, the government did not take the necessary measures to increase labor productivity in the coal industry. It only transferred 36 thousand workers from military factories to mines. But this did not give the expected results.
The import of raw materials and food could not meet the current needs of the country and at the same time create large stocks, since it was difficult to ensure the safety of sea lanes. As of June 1942, food reserves amounted to 6,6 million tons, oil products - 5,9 million tons, iron ore - 2,1 million tons, steel - 2,3 million tons, non-ferrous metals - 0,8 million tons 2.
..... The delivery of raw materials, weapons and food from the United States, dominions and colonies required an increase in sea transport. In this regard, in the second quarter of 1942, merchant ships with a total tonnage of 334 thousand gross tons were built in Great Britain, and in the third quarter - 306 thousand However, ship losses far exceeded their construction, which negatively affected the supply of England with raw materials and agricultural products and, in general, the development of its war economy.

http://www.istorya.ru/book/ww2/218.php

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

From statistics on supplies of raw materials to the UK.

and why didn’t they make a separate peace with Germany when she offered them?

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

and why didn’t they make a separate peace with Germany when she offered them?

The Americans really wanted to milk the British Empire, which is why they introduced a land lease and promised the British that they would help them in the war with Germany. Moreover, the law was not introduced in 1939 or in 1940. but only in March 1941, when they realized that the Germans could really defeat the British and end the war, and therefore the British would not stop at any cost. As a result, this happened - Britain lost many colonies and the pound as a world currency, and the era of the dollar reigned in the West. As the Anglo-Saxons say, nothing personal, just business.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: ccsr

wanted to milk the British Empire, that's why they introduced a land lease

interesting milking, lend-lease was free

Quote: ccsr

Moreover, the law was not introduced in 1939 or in 1940. but only in March 1941

the Germans offered peace to the British in the 39th and 40th year, and then it was chopped in the sky and for the Atlantic, is it too late for milking?

Quote: ccsr

Germans really can defeat the British and end the war

by this time the Germans had already finished active hostilities against the British without winning the war and began preparations for the "Barbarossa"

[ccsr]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

interesting milking, lend-lease was free

Not all arms deliveries to England were free - a land-lease is only part of everything that was delivered. I will not describe in detail, but the British were forced to send a lot of raw materials from their colonies to the United States, and obviously not at favorable prices for them, thereby offsetting the supply of arms from the United States.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

the Germans offered peace to the British in the 39th and 40th year, and then it was chopped in the sky and for the Atlantic, is it too late for milking?

Are you talking about a "strange war" or what? As for the "Rubilov" in the sky, compare what the Germans lost during the entire war in the skies of England, and how much they lost during the first three months of the war in the USSR. This data is available on the web.

Quote: Pedrodepackes

by this time the Germans had already finished active hostilities against the British without winning the war and began preparations for the "Barbarossa"

Creditors from the United States insisted that Hitler settle down with respect to England, which is why he had to reckon with those who financed him after 1933. True, he did not expect that the Americans would throw him, which is why he did not launch attacks on American ships for a long time, but in the end he declared war on them at the end of 1941.

[Same lech]

... By 1944, the German army was inundated with expensive and complex equipment. And in comparison with Leningrad, she ate quite satisfactorily. But millions of those killed cannot be resurrected or replaced by "Gaster".

And fuel ... and some types of metals without which you can’t make weapons?
The Germans during the war began to catastrophically miss this ... it is not surprising that they often abandoned purposeful tanks and planes for the commonplace reason of lack of fuel.
War is primarily the state’s resources ... natural, human, economic, military.
Hitler overestimated the possibilities of Germany in a protracted war with Russia.
Now, looking at these history lessons, I look at the capabilities of our opponents in the war against us ... USA, NATO ... now they are not able to fight with us for a long time.

[samarin1969]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

USA, NATO ... now they are not able to fight with us for a long time.

Can we fight for a long time? There is no war yet, and optimization is already rushing like in the 1941s.

[Same lech]

Can we fight for a long time?

It depends on many circumstances ... if the economy and society are not mobilized for war, we will lose it.
The year 1917 is an example to us.

[samarin1969]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

if the economy and society are not mobilized for war, we will lose it.

... Precisely and society (!). The magnificent industry of England and France in 1940 was just the coveted prism of the Wehrmacht. The British and French did not know how and did not want to fight. In 1940, another "Alaric" came to them on a tank and said looking at "Renault" and "Valentines": "The thicker the grass, the easier it is to mow."

[ccsr]

Quote: samarin1969

Can we fight for a long time?

We do not have a concept for a long war in the military doctrine - everything will be decided in a few hours, that's why we are not increasing the size of the armed forces, because it is too expensive.

[qQQQ]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Hitler overestimated the possibilities of Germany in a protracted war with Russia.

He simply counted on a blitzkrieg, nobody even thought of a protracted war on two fronts.

[akunin]

[quote = The same LEKHA] [quote] Hitler overestimated the possibilities of Germany in protracted war With Russia. Looking at these lessons of history, I look at the possibilities of our adversaries in a war against us ... the United States, NATO ... now they are not able to fight with us for a long time. [/ quote] modern war (nuclear) cannot be protracted by definition. American Yao delivery vehicles can be deployed in the Baltic States (and the time of arrival?). Cuba does not want to sign now (as during the Caribbean crisis) and Maduro is questionable. Well, and most importantly, our dearly beloved "ally" China is sleeping and sees the Russian-Finnish border. Europe will soon create its own united army + a complex of advanced science / production and a powerful economy.

[haron]

Quote: akunin

our dearly beloved "ally" China sleeps and sees the Russian - Finnish border. Europe will soon create its own united army + a complex of advanced science / production and a powerful economy.

I agree. Then I will finish your thought with mine. Take the darkest tones.
RF in the future may be in the place of Germany. On the one hand, Europe and the United States, on the other, China, the south is also in question. At the same time, if the opponents use yao, it will be on a minimal scale. They, as well as on the topic of the article, need the resources of the Russian Federation selectively. Natural - absolutely everything, but human, that's the question. They may agree to leave most of the population, but they are unlikely to engage in persuading those who do not particularly like them. They do not have enough psychologists for their own. Waiting for 40 years in the desert like Moshe is also a question, the new generation must be separated from the older, so that the "infection" is not transmitted.
And by the way, such a nuance. If it is necessary to minimize the use of nuclear weapons, then how, or rather, who should cleanse the territory of 1/7 land? China will be given the east. Until the Urals will not be allowed. Kemerovo, Novosibirsk, somewhere there. The north will not be given to them either. There remains a huge territory with a majority of the population. The forces of the United States army are not so little here, it is not so simple, from the word in general. There is an order of magnitude better option that is already cooking on the stove. All countries of Eastern Europe, especially ... okay, list those who especially will not. So they, communicating perfectly with the inhabitants of the Russian Federation in one language, will do the same as the natives of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania during the first Romanovs. Only taperich will not repeat the error, or rather not an error, but a condition acceptable for that time (when everything was united under one scepter). Now they will be crushed to atoms and inspire to everyone his identity right from Adam and Eve. And de facto all molecules will be part of one huge organism.
Here I will express sedition. The Russian "truth uterus" is the least suitable for the current conflicts. Suppose, instead of paraffinizing Ukrainians through an article, it would be much more effective to print materials on events when common friendship gave the fruits of victories. Well, in that spirit. And let them write anything in response, let them know that you will not take over their garden or throw vigorous garbage into the garden. And so you have already been provoked to a not entirely considered step, which, apart from problems and an embittered brother, brought nothing. Which was just an excuse to put on a noose.
I do not know in what form it will be, but the fact that globalization will end successfully is a fact. The question of time - when, and the question of the form of managing the world - how is not yet closed. If the people of the Russian Federation will be included in the globe, resting their hands on their feet, the mother of all to the right and to the left, then how is Hermes trimigest "what is above, so below." They will treat the mentally ill and dangerous to the rest of the community.
There remains the option of introducing into this structure voluntarily, cutting off his ego in order to preserve and carry on the second part, which is more valuable. Otherwise, it will be like with Scythians and images, they disappeared somewhere, there are none of them.
ps. as soon as they wait for a clear answer to the question - "nothing will come in response, because it can't or not," so they will begin. I think 20 years left.

[akunin]

Quote: haron

In the future, the Russian Federation may be in place of Germany

Well, Eloizych wanted to make Germany great, though he chose a very controversial path, our leaders do not set such a task (to make Russia great), but saber rattling ...? as the hero of Mashkov said in the movie "thief"

[goose]

Quote: akunin

Hitler overestimated the possibilities of Germany in a protracted war with Russia.

Hitler overestimated the value of Italy, which, for all its capabilities, was never able to block the logistics of the Allies in the Mediterranean.
If the Italians blocked the Suez Canal, took Malta and Gibraltar, which they could possibly do, Hitler would have succeeded, and the British would have been out of the game already in 1940-41m.

[Olgovich]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

Hitler overestimated the possibilities of Germany in a protracted war with Russia.

In the protracted, he did not hope to win, he was not such a Turk.

The bet was precisely on lightning speed, until the resources could say their weighty and, of course, the final word.

"And you are passionate, Paramosha!" (FROM)
Put and lose ...

[bubalik]

And the fuel ...
During the war, the Germans became sorely missed.

,,, well, until 1944. was not so disastrous.

[zenion]

If Hitler could fight off the hot USSR at least until the summer of 1945, then after Roosevelt’s death everything could be different. Japan did not give up, it was a disaster for the United States, in addition, even after nuclear bombing, Japan fought for another two weeks, which made it possible for the USSR to seize the islands under Tokyo's nose. Only when the Minister of Defense told the emperor - if we don’t surrender to the Americans, then in a week or two, the Russians will be in Tokyo. And then Japan surrendered.

[Basil50]

Thanks you.
It became frankly annoying that they were trying to * VICTORY in the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR * to explain * either the economy or the * wrong attitude to .... *
Hitler wrote his work long before coming to power and everything was described there that later the Nazis and European henchmen turned into reality. Everything has been described in sufficient detail and without any equivocations so dear to tiligents.
In Europe, the war was prepared carefully and thoughtfully. What went * not according to plan * is due to the HEROISM of our grandfathers who crushed the Nazis and their henchmen.
Something has become fashionable to look for Nazi mistakes in Europe and especially among Germans. Apparently they are trying to take into account and correct in a future campaign * east *. But why do such * studies * appear in RUSSIA?

[Boris55]

Quote: Vasily50

Hitler wrote his work long before coming to power ... But why do such * studies * appear in RUSSIA?

That's because Mein Kampf is banned here, and we have similar studies. This anti-human ideology should not be prohibited, but studied, starting from high school and universities, with the involvement of veterans ...

Today, an article appeared in the administrative code banning the demonstration of the symbols of fascism - the swastika. Already there is a convict for posting in social networks as our winners throw fascist banners to the mausoleum ...

A bit about the technology of changing consciousness.
There is a phenomenon. There is an image of this phenomenon. A word (code) is assigned to this image. When we hear the word, an image arises in us, we understand the phenomenon. By distorting and prohibiting the images of fascism, we (the young generation) become confused about a phenomenon that without any difficulty enters our lives. Thus, the silence in Soviet times about Vlasov and his symbol - a three-light banner, allowed them to make him a symbol of a whole country, and we accept it as something new, original. The result of this is known to all of us.

Today it’s forbidden to talk about it, tomorrow it will be forbidden to show it, after tomorrow it will be our everything. Of us make Ivanov not remembering.

ps
Swastika is an ancient symbol. The symbol of fascism is on a red panel, a white circle, inside which is located a swastika. Only together these components are a symbol of fascism.

[Same lech]

This anti-human ideology should not be prohibited, but studied, starting from high school and universities, with the involvement of veterans ...

I agree with you completely ...
Mine Kampf read it and did not become a Nazi and did not become a fascist ideology, but now I know his way to ascend to power can be said from the inside.
And I have something to say and analyze about his book.
Bans on introducing such things will lead to the opposite effect ... why legislators do not understand this in their frenzy to ban everything and everything.

[zenion]

Only in the Indian symbol is it the Sun that rolls forward leaving its rays behind. And in the Nazi swastika (Hakenkraits) the rays are in front and capture everything, and the sun is rolling behind the rays of Nazism.

[naidas]

Quote: Boris55

That's because Mein Kampf is banned,

LLC "Publishing Group" Alphabet-Atticus ", 2014
Colibri Publisher
The electronic version of the book was prepared by LitRes (www.litres.ru) in free sale.

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

The meaning of fascism in the unity of the people. This is a decent phenomenon. T.N. ,, world backstage ,, was afraid and is now afraid of the UNITY of one or another people. Bad Nazism. These concepts were intentionally mixed, replaced, confused, ordinary nonhumans, including in the USSR. Naturally, the aforementioned idiots will continue to harm, furthering, the shadow on the fence,

[qQQQ]

Quote: Vasily50

What went wrong * is due to the HEROISM of OUR GRANDFATES

I’ll support, to be honest with things, by the fall of 41 the pre-war spacecraft was almost destroyed, we lost almost all tanks, planes, huge losses in drugs, etc. Here we must pay tribute to all our ancestors, starting from ordinary workers in the rear to the leaders of the state, who showed courage, will and continued the struggle.

[Ptolemy Lag]

No one doubts the heroism of the Soviet people, but we and the Germans made mistakes.

[Basil50]

Thanks written to Samarin.

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: samarin1969

The article is clearly strongly ideologized and questionable in its conclusions.

Well, the assessment of conclusions is a subjective matter, but what is ideologization? Just a look at the Reich economy from the side of labor requirements.

[samarin1969]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

but ideologization is what

It would be nice if the German economy was ruled by "uncouth Nazis". It would be easier for grandfathers. The "irrational" extermination of Jews is hardly a significant factor, it is just a mandatory topic for Western publications. And the idea of ​​the inevitability of Germany's defeat due to limited resources, which has been heavily driven by "pravdyuk" since the 90s. The idea is false. Our ancestors could not stand in the hell of Sevastopol, Leningrad, Moscow and Stalingrad - the further history of the world would be written by the fascists. All the values ​​of "democracy" and Western industry would be destroyed by the German army (if desired). And European, Turkish, African resources would be enough for Hitler to finish off the "Western democracies". The French and Czechs voluntarily worked on Hitler's war plans. The "stinking slaves" about which the author writes were not the basis of the European economy of the Nazis.

[KVU-NSVD]

do not pull the owl on the globe.

[Kote Pan Kokhanka]

... The "irrational" extermination of Jews is hardly a significant factor, it is just a mandatory topic for Western publications. And the idea of ​​the inevitability of Germany's defeat due to limited resources, which has been heavily driven by "pravdyuk" since the 90s. The idea is false.

Then I agree with Samarin1969!
Germany to 41 broke France, Poland, Norway, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Belgium and Greece! Separately, offensive operations took from 1 day (Denmark) to three weeks (Poland)! In fact, only Britain sat behind the Channel! The rest of continental Europe lay at the feet of Germany, however, like its industry, human and raw materials.
The victory over the USSR trite put a logical point, who would be the hegamon in Europe for the next 100 years! So the “cus” was worth the candle. Germany took a chance and lost!
I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories or protrusion of the role of factors that finally broke the ridge of Nazi nits !!! Let me just remind you that our Fatherland paid the most expensive price in the victory won by Nazi Germany - 27 million people! My opinion is precisely this “fundamental assessment of the contribution of our grandfathers and great-grandfathers to our common and most important victory” !!!
Regards, Kote!

[akunin]

Halder, of course, was modest in his description of the enemy and forgot to focus on the high quality of Russian weapons

and this is September 1941 (the main tank bt, the main fighter I-16, etc., you can continue for a long time) "mosinka", "maxim", "dp" ... - he had nothing to focus on. the economy of germany could not stand ( why Hitler did not even consider a protracted war). If the Germans did not climb into the USSR immediately, but began to milk Europe better, it would be much more difficult for us to win.

Germany needed a manpower - by the end of the third year of World War II, the country had practically no male population aged 20-30 in the manufacturing sector. Losses at the front now had to be replaced by older workers of military enterprises - in the following year several hundred thousand men went to the army, which was very difficult to replace. At the same time, there was no need to count on help from the female population - it already accounted for 34% of the workforce, which was the highest value among Western countries. And German industry required millions of workers ...

and we had it differently? we had children (and not just women) collecting shells, but there was nothing to say about pensioners over 60 years old - the country was overwhelmed by forging (probably not the right word) victory.

[bubalik]

That is, over two years, the labor ombudsman raised the share of foreigners in constantly needy

,,, there are interesting documents for this period.

[kalibr]

Quote: samarin1969

And the role of the economy in Victory was secondary in comparison with the front.

Well, that’s you!

[samarin1969]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: samarin1969

And the role of the economy in Victory was secondary in comparison with the front.

Well, that’s you!

The Germans who did not read Columella demolished Rome. The Ottomans were happy to "master" the achievements of the Byzantine workshops. The Mughals happily proved the superiority of the art of war over the art of making money. "The sword of the bourgeoisie" Napoleon was dubbed by Russia 30 years before the start of the industrial revolution. Germany in 1870 and 1940 simply "did not notice" the French army with all its banks, concerns and wonders of engineering. The indomitability of the Vietnamese has been perfectly described in a series of articles on VO ... Finally, "Ansar Alla in slippers drives futuristic convoys of Saudis.

States with massive armies of passion usually defeat the "trade federations". If the air fleets and tank groups were not on the Eastern Front, no Montgomery, no armies of Australian farmers and American clerks would have even a chance of victory.
The army is more important than the economy!

[Ptolemy Lag]

Everything is important. Both the army and the economy.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: samarin1969

Finally, "Ansar Alla in slippers drives the futuristic convoys of the Saudis.

They have good slippers ...

"Slippers" are a bit out of topic here, because the "Houthis" nowadays are primarily the regular army of Yemen, with OTR and RCC.

Quote: samarin1969

If the air fleets and tank groups were not on the Eastern Front, there would be no Montgomery, no armies of Australian farmers and American clerks would even have a chance of victory.

C'mon, everything was fine with the Yankees with fighting spirit. One tank attack on a minefield was worth it - the trawls went out of order immediately, and the tanks went in a column, the front trawls the mines with its carcass, after the demolition the next one continues to trawl, and so on until the end. When groped by experience the safe track was broken by caterpillars into the swamp - the procedure was repeated.
In addition, given the volume of US military equipment, no fighting spirit would have helped their opponents - the Yankees would have overwhelmed them with Shermans and Fortresses.

[Undecim]

In the book “The Price of Destruction. The Creation and Destruction of the Nazi Economy ”Adam Ace collected and systematized a unique material that makes you take a fresh look at the history of World War II. The Hitlerite project of colonization and forced modernization turned out to be utopian in many respects for the banal reason of lack of calories and muscular strength.
The author should have thoughtfully read the book itself before writing the article about the book, since the book is not at all about the calories and muscular strength of the Third Reich. The book is about much more serious issues.
According to the author, the main task of the book is: "If we want to understand the terrible deeds of the Third Reich, we must understand the motives of those who committed them."
It is to understand the motives why Hitler and his supporters involved Germany in the second world war for less than one generation, the author analyzes the economic foundations of the Third Reich and comes to the following conclusions.
1. The economy of the Third Reich completely did not meet his imperial plans, and Hitler understood this.
2. Even an understanding of the discrepancy between economic opportunities and aggressive plans did not stop Hitler from starting a war.
In turn, the author explains the completely illogical actions of Hitler as follows.
Hitler based on current economic trends as early as the 1920s. he understood the threat to Germany and to all other European powers that the US becoming a dominant global superpower hid in itself predicted that the European powers only had a few years to rally in order to confront this inevitable outcome.
Hitler, instead of reconciling to the place occupied by Germany in the global economic system with its dominance of wealthy English-speaking countries, sought to mobilize the dissatisfaction that had accumulated among the population in order to challenge the epoch-making system.
In addition, Hitler believed that the threat to the Third Reich from the United States was not reduced to the traditional rivalry of the superpowers. This threat was existential in nature and was closely linked to the fear of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, which he saw manifestations in the “Wall Street Jewry” and in the “Jewish media” of the USA.
It was this fantastic interpretation of the real balance of power, according to the author, that served as the reason for Hitler's unexpected, risky decisions. Germany simply could not come to terms with the role of the rich satellite of the United States, since this would mean surrendering to the worldwide Jewish conspiracy and, ultimately, the death of the German race. Given the inability to protect oneself from Jewish influence, which manifested itself in growing international tension at the end of the 1930s, future prosperity in the framework of capitalist partnership with the Western powers was simply impossible. War became inevitable.
One can argue with the author’s conclusions, but, nevertheless, some points are very similar to the present and the current geopolitical situation, so the book deserves attention.

[Evgeny Fedorov]

The author should have thoughtfully read the book itself before writing an article about the book, since the book is not at all about the calories and muscular strength of the Third Reich. A book about much more serious issues

.
Thanks. I read the book carefully. I agree with you that the author's conclusions can be argued for a long time. Accordingly, Ace decided not to write about the "existential character" and other reflections. But it's worth talking about hunger and slave labor, as a consequence of Hitler's adventure. In my opinion, there is nothing more important than the death of so many people, mostly peaceful. It's about yours -

A book about much more serious issues

[Undecim]

Is the fact "about hunger and slave labor as a consequence of Hitler's adventure" a discovery and is it the first time this book is told about it? Tons of books have been written about the crimes of the Nazis, including the use of forced labor, and the book in question does not add anything to this list and does not set such a goal.
If you decide to remind once again that you should not forget about it, then mentioning the above-mentioned book is generally out of place. Agitation must also be able to write.

[Ptolemy Lag]

"Hitler, instead of accepting the place occupied by Germany in the global economic system with its dominance of wealthy English-speaking countries, sought to mobilize the accumulated dissatisfaction of the population in order to throw down a landmark challenge to this system."
Fantastic.

Hitler was an Anglophile, so he pushed to the East. Mein Kampf clearly describes this.

[ccsr]

Quote: Undecim

Hitler based on current economic trends as early as the 1920s. understood the threat to Germany and to all other European powers that the US’s emergence as a dominant global superpower hid, predicted

This is an obvious bust, if only because in the 20s there was no one to call Hitler, and he could hardly get to a serious analysis of the development of the world economy at that time. He may have grasped intuitively the future leader, and whom he should be afraid of, but nevertheless remembered the ocean dividing the continents. As far as we know, even the Japanese leadership did not look very much at the United States at that time. Therefore your conclusion

Quote: Undecim

In addition, Hitler believed that the threat to the Third Reich from the United States was not reduced to the traditional rivalry of the superpowers. This threat was existential in nature and was closely linked to the fear of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, which he saw manifestations in the “Wall Street Jewry” and in the “Jewish media” of the USA.

I consider it somewhat far-fetched, because it looks more like propaganda than real economic forecasts.

[Undecim]

I wrote comments that one can argue with the author’s conclusions. Nevertheless, it is better to familiarize yourself with the argument and read the book.

[ccsr]

Quote: Undecim

Nevertheless, it is better to familiarize yourself with the argument and read the book.

There is not enough time for all to read the sources that refer to VO. From your commentary, I understood that you want to present Hitler as some kind of forward-thinking politician, since he wrote "Mein Kampf" and formulated his views. In fact, if we consider Hitler as a politician, then in my opinion there was more impulsiveness in him when making decisions, i.e. he made decisions based on the operational situation, not as a result of well thought out in-depth analysis. At least the attack on the USSR was a manifestation of his monstrous incompetence in terms of assessing the USSR as his enemy, and this best characterizes him as an ordinary politician.

[Undecim]

do you want to introduce Hitler
Sorry for the directness, but the comments are not worth reading through the paragraph.
After all, I have written - "the author analyzes the economic foundations of the Third Reich and comes to the following conclusions", "in the opinion of the author."
I do not want to introduce, but the author of the book. I just gave a brief overview of the contents of the book.

[ccsr]

Quote: Undecim

I just gave a brief overview of the contents of the book.

Apparently I saw a deeper meaning in your comment, but I'm glad that this is not so.

[Nestorych]

They were sent far from 25 years old, the elder sister of my grandmother was taken to Germany with her whole family, she was over 40, though not to the plant, the owners turned out to be very good, reasonable working hours, food, living conditions, when they returned back, the owners gave a few suitcases of things "you will come, you will have nothing there", we still eat and drink with fascist devices in the country.))
But the grandmother with a small mother got to the Latvians on the farm, everything was as in the article, poorly fed, lived in a stable, they didn’t get sick, they got sick.

[bubalik]

prisoners were brutally exploited in concentration camps, while the seas were starving

[Evgeny Fedorov]

Marmalade under "normal use"! Impressive!

[bubalik]

Evgeny Fedorov (Evgeny Fedorov) Today, 12: 13

,,, I understand that this is the WEEKLY norm! Horror!

[bubalik]

,,, and from the very beginning of the war were not going to contain prisoners of war.

[Evgeny Fedorov]

The fact that the USSR did not sign an agreement on the treatment of the military, the Germans closed the whole war. Incidentally, this became one of the reasons for certain marginal historians in the 90 and 2000 years to directly accuse Stalin of the suffering of captured Red Army soldiers. This is creepy ...

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

Historians ,, with low social responsibility ,,. For the money they will do everything

[Evgeny Fedorov]

Yes, exactly ... It is not clear why it was introduced at all. If to replenish the body with carbohydrates, it would be better to increase the rate of cereals. Most likely, this is some kind of sophisticated mockery.

[haron]

Quote: Evgeny Fedorov

It is not clear why it was introduced at all. If to replenish the body with carbohydrates, it would be better to increase the rate of cereals.

If you are talking about marmalade, then this is the simplest concentrate from production waste. Low-grade orchard and berry products or their waste + meat / dairy industry waste. Let's say apple pruning, any fruits and berries were cut out and evaporated to minimize the volume. Gelatin from skin, bones, cartilage, tendons .... All this was mixed + preservatives and "marmalade" is ready. Yes. sort of like artificial sweeteners were there. There is nutritional value, there is a source of proteins (they are important in case of increased physical activity, especially leucine, there are also ulevodov, the cost of production is minimal, Well, can't such a by-product be called "marmalade"?

[hohol95]

Wiki wiki

In April 1953, two months before the uprising, there was an increase in prices for public transport, clothing, shoes, bread, meat and sugar-containing products. At the same time, the lack of sugar led to a shortage of artificial honey and marmalade, which served as one of the main components of the standard breakfast of most Germans. According to the participant in those events, this already caused a wave of indignation among the German workers. Outrage over the rise in price of marmalade was confused and misunderstood by the Soviet leadership, who had no idea about the role of marmalade in the nutrition of German workers, and was perceived as a "marmalade riot." In Russian historical literature, there is a thesis that the beginning of the development of the 1953 crisis was largely “the marmalade rebellion”. But most Russian historians, as well as historians of other countries, do not use the term “marmalade revolt”.

[haron]

Quote: hohol95

Wiki wiki

Oh well. Wiki, riot ...
And what is "marmalade"? Life or a product made using a specific technology?
Take the word "sea", the islanders of the Pacific Ocean have 70-80 meanings and words for writing different versions of our "sea".
So is the "marmalade".
Have you ever used a homemade water extract from a sugar beet grown by yourself instead of sugar? Try it. Be amazed at the taste. The fact is that before the invention of refining from a solution, such a "shmurdyak" was normal in any village in the south of Russia. Adding the skin of a pig there and trimming made .... a long-lasting product.
Call it "gadget" at least, the meaning does not change. Well, the gasns called it marmalade .... one caveat - ours forgot to scrupulously clean it of dextrans and sprinkle with vanilla)).
Remember the school. The revolution has a reason and a reason. Reason - at least call marmalade, if there is a reason it will foam.

[hohol95]

Eco you ...
A person in any dashing year will always come up with an ersatz product.
I didn’t have a chance to eat the products from buryak described by you, but I heard stories about its cooking and slicing into pieces! And that’s it. And these pieces for the military and post-war children were the sweetest in their then life!
You still remember the shag - you will not find it now in the afternoon with fire! And used to be sold in every newsstand! Erzatz tobacco!

[haron]

Quote: hohol95

You still remember the shag - you will not find it now in the afternoon with fire! And used to be sold in every newsstand! Erzatz tobacco!

Well, if we talk about the Second World War then shag must be remembered.
By the way, she is not an ersatz at all. This is a separate type of tobacco plants, which in taste was considered a little worse than tobacco. And in life, tobacco was separated from the mahra by its softness and more gentle effect on the body, that is, tobacco was considered a more noble product.
And he disappeared because of the Ministry of Health, which began to look askance at the chemical composition of shag. Makhorka has more psychoactive ingredients, which are only traces of tobacco. And the effect of shag differs from tobacco.
If you took an unambiguous ersatz, then they made a mixture of maple leaves and tobacco dust "bucklen" was called. And the soldiers themselves were doing real yad)), this is a mixture of the bark of a young oak and some types of moss. Himself in the army, experiencing a tobacco hunger and went along the path of comrades, smoked tea (this is 90-92 years.) But realizing the entire emptiness of this procedure, he began to ask older people (some were on the outskirts of the Ural town), so they talked about bark and moss, well muddied this product .... super! really better than tea, it breaks instantly to a tear, and the main thing is to twist the second goat's leg in two hours, when the negative from the experience falls below desire and drags on vigorously ...
And marmalade ...
About the riots of the Germans from the lack of marmalade, you can write a separate article. But take it wider, for example, Czechs and bagels with beer, Poles and a shunka with butter, French and croissant with wine. .... In Russia I remember salt riots, anti and about alcoholic fights, grain riots it is clear, there is hunger which is not an aunt.
What can destabilize them, and what us, when and under what global conditions?
Although I admit honestly, I only read about marmalade riots after your post. But the topic is simply unique to the sociology and psychology of conflict.

[kalibr]

Quote: samarin1969

The indomitability of the Vietnamese was beautifully described in a series of articles on VO ..

Fueled by the supply of weapons and food from the USSR and China!

[kalibr]

Quote: samarin1969

The army is more important than the economy!

"No endurance, no physical strength, no herd and solidarity of mass struggle can give an advantage in the era of rapid-fire small-caliber rifles, machine guns, complex technical devices on ships, loose formation in land battles" V. I. Lenin "The Fall of Port Arthur" ...

[samarin1969]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: samarin1969

The army is more important than the economy!

"No endurance, no physical strength, no herd and solidarity of mass struggle can give an advantage in the era of rapid-fire small-caliber rifles, machine guns, complex technical devices on ships, loose formation in land battles" V. I. Lenin "The Fall of Port Arthur" ...

Spears against machine guns are still rare in history. These are extremes. And of course, nobody cancels the role of industrial development. But Russia is still united due to the unknown number of people like Motorola. The "nuclear suitcase" can be controlled, repurchased, "deactivated". But while there is still an army and such soldiers, they are afraid of Russia, even with a second-rate GDP.

[Alexey RA]

Already in early September 1941, Germany felt the cold breath of a distant war. Reichsbank released a report in which it noted the increase in inflationary pressure on the market. The shelves in the stores were empty, the consumer basket was shrinking, the money supply in a short period grew by 10%, and the mass of buyers rushed to the black market. Barter unprecedented since the post-war era has appeared.

Actually, problems with food in the Reich began even before the invasion of the USSR. However, there is nothing surprising - the mobilized army, as a vacuum cleaner, pulled people, including people from the agricultural sector, who began to consume them instead of producing food.

General Osterkamp: Difficulties in supplying meat. The number of pigs decreased from 27 to 20 million heads. Cattle should not be touched. Therefore, you need to reduce consumption. It is necessary to reduce the consumption of meat in the ground forces before the offensive. In the armed forces, the norm is reduced from 1500 to 1350 grams, and for the civilian population, from 500 to 400 grams [per week].

© Halder. War diary. Record of May 12, 1941.
The grain situation in 1941 in the Reich was even more "fun" - without the plunder of the USSR, the grain balance did not come together.

The Green Folder is Herr Thomas, who is a “military economist,” who composed it. Available in the original in the Bundesarchive / Military Archive. The "economic" measures in the occupied territory are being painted. In particular, from the USSR, in any situation and any mood of the local population, it is expected to receive 2.5 million tons of grain, which the USSR promised Germany from the 1941 harvest and which are already included in the Reich's food balance (without them in any way), 3 million tons of grain per army food (if you drag it from the Reich, there is not enough rail capacity) and about 2 million tons more for Germany’s obligations to Romania, Hungary and others. Total approximately 8 million tons of grain. Herr Thomas did not build rainbow illusions and clearly stated that this plan can only be realized if the current agricultural system is preserved, including mainly in the form of collective farms (if you start extensive experimentation with the forms of ownership, you can drive past the 1941 harvest with songs) and severe non-economic coercion regarding the seizure of grain. It also says that when implementing this plan, millions of indigenous people are expected to starve to death, but the Reich should not be bothered, since the occupied territories are required as a source of raw materials, not a highly developed industrial area, and the peak of mortality will be in industrial areas that and so are not able to provide themselves with agricultural products.

© D. Shein
By the way, it was the food shortage in the Reich that served as one of the reasons for the failure of the Reich's negotiations with Spain on the alliance: the Reich was not able to replace the Spaniards with food imports from America, without which a massive famine would have begun in the devastated Spanish Civil War.

[ccsr]

Quote: Alexey RA

the Reich was not able to replace the Spaniards with food imports from America, without which a mass famine would have begun in the devastated recent Civil War of Spain.

It is highly doubtful that famine would begin in Spain, if only because it is a sea country off the coast of which there are so many fish that it is possible to feed it to the entire population even in ruin. And agriculture in that climate is much easier to develop than, say, in our regions of the European part. I think that Spain’s relative neutrality is due to the fact that there they perfectly understood that they would primarily rake from the USA and Great Britain if they dare to openly side with Hitler. This fear was the main reason that they limited themselves to sending a volunteer division to the Eastern Front.

[Operator]

2,5 million Jews who died during WWII - an adequate assessment.

The non-existent Zionist propaganda from 1945 all year buzzed about 6 million Jews - victims of the Holocaust, despite the fact that in 1980 the post-war table in the largest German concentration camp Auschwitz with the number of people killed in 4 million without noise and dust was replaced with a new one with the number 2 million killed

The Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer stated in 1989 that the 4 million deaths at Auschwitz is a notorious myth. In 1990, the Polish Auschwitz Museum in Poland, together with the Israeli Holocaust Center Yad Vashem, officially announced the number of people who died in 1 million people. The famous British Holocaust historian Gerald Reutlinger estimates the number of deaths in 700 thousand, the French Holocaust historian Jean-Claude Pressack - in 800 thousand, including 630 thousand Jews.
https://ss69100.livejournal.com/3309571.html

[Avior]

Paradoxically, until 1943, German industry worked in peacetime.
German industry actually switched to the war footing in 1943 after Goebbels talk about total war.
Hitler’s unwillingness or inability to concentrate resources on the main goal significantly helped in the war of the USSR and the Allies.

[Operator]

Quote: Evgeny Fedorov

I read the book of [Adam Ace] carefully

I have not read the book, but condemn (joke)

According to information available on the Internet, Germany's motive for WWII was revenge for the defeat in WWII under the guise of the slogan of the struggle against communist expansionism in the person of the USSR. This goal has been warmly supported by all European countries since the advent of the war party led by Hitler. Immediately after the 1933, the WWII winners in Britain, France and the USA renounced the right to recover reparations from Germany, lifted contractual restrictions on the creation of the German armed forces, issued multi-billion dollar loans, transferred military-technical technologies in large quantities, including complete equipment for aviation and engine-building plants, etc. .d. etc.

In addition, Germany was consistently allowed to occupy the demilitarized Ruhr region (the center of the German military-industrial complex), annex Austria and the Czech Republic with great industrial potential, and occupy Poland (by refusing Britain and France from their allied obligations). But Hitler’s plan in one single point did not coincide with the plan of his Western sponsors - Hitler did not want the WWII situation with the German war to be repeated on two fronts, so he first took control of all European countries (with the exception of Britain), and only then began military operations on the eastern front.

Hitler made only one mistake - he did not finish off the British Empire before the attack on the USSR, which Stalin did not expect from him, who logically predicted the beginning of the war with Germany in the 1942 year (after the completion of the German occupation of the British Isles).

Germany needed the consolidation of the resource, industrial and agricultural potential of Europe in order to achieve multiple economic superiority over the USSR - all countries of continental Europe, including Spain, Portugal, Switzerland and Sweden, worked shockingly on the German Reich. Therefore, in principle, Germany could do without the slave labor of Soviet prisoners of war and extradited residents from the occupied territory of the USSR.

But the calculation of the German economists (who advised Hitler) turned out to be erroneous - the economy of the USSR (taking into account the help of the Allies in Lendlis) was sufficient to defeat the economy of all Europe (with the exception of Britain).

[Kronos]

Conspiralogy Battle of the Atlantic Germany lost its fleet and aviation could not defeat the British

[Operator]

Quote: Evgeny Fedorov

The fact that the USSR did not sign an agreement on the treatment of the military, the Germans closed the whole war

You are mistaken - the Geneva Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners of War from the 1931 of the year, which Germany signed, obliged all parties to the convention to extend its effect to prisoners of war countries that did not sign the convention. In case of violation, criminal liability ensued.

The military-political leadership of the German Reich, including the command of the Wehrmacht, were criminals under the Geneva Convention. However, before the start of the Nuremberg trial, the USSR concluded an oral agreement with the United States and Britain on the removal from criminal prosecution of the German armed forces command in return for the complete non-mention of the USSR during the pre-war process of liberating the western territories of Ukraine and Belarus, the Baltic states becoming part of the USSR, and collaboration the population of the occupied regions of the USSR during the war, etc.

[Nadir shah]

Quote: Proxima

The whole of continental Europe worked for Hitler, plus the vast industrialized and densely populated territories of the European part of the USSR, whose GDP almost an order of magnitude (!!!) exceeded the GDP of the remaining Soviet Union. What else Germany lacked is incomprehensible. It is also incomprehensible how our country (or rather, what remains of it) survived all this?

well, not all, after all, let's be honest - Spain and Portugal are neutral, Italy is busy with its problems, and so on. Well, and apparently, even what was left was enough for the USSR to survive and win. So, it was not so bad.

[Nadir shah]

Quote: The same Lech

... By 1944, the German army was inundated with expensive and complex equipment. And in comparison with Leningrad, she ate quite satisfactorily. But millions of those killed cannot be resurrected or replaced by "Gaster".

And fuel ... and some types of metals without which you can’t make weapons?
The Germans during the war began to catastrophically miss this ... it is not surprising that they often abandoned purposeful tanks and planes for the commonplace reason of lack of fuel.
War is primarily the state’s resources ... natural, human, economic, military.
Hitler overestimated the possibilities of Germany in a protracted war with Russia.
Now, looking at these history lessons, I look at the capabilities of our opponents in the war against us ... USA, NATO ... now they are not able to fight with us for a long time.

now no one could fight for a long time, the economy is so arranged that a war costs crazy money. And for a long time no one will be.

[Nadir shah]

Quote: Boris55

Quote: Vasily50

Hitler wrote his work long before coming to power ... But why do such * studies * appear in RUSSIA?

That's because Mein Kampf is banned here, and we have similar studies. This anti-human ideology should not be prohibited, but studied, starting from high school and universities, with the involvement of veterans ...

Today, an article appeared in the administrative code banning the demonstration of the symbols of fascism - the swastika. Already there is a convict for posting in social networks as our winners throw fascist banners to the mausoleum ...

A bit about the technology of changing consciousness.
There is a phenomenon. There is an image of this phenomenon. A word (code) is assigned to this image. When we hear the word, an image arises in us, we understand the phenomenon. By distorting and prohibiting the images of fascism, we (the young generation) become confused about a phenomenon that without any difficulty enters our lives. Thus, the silence in Soviet times about Vlasov and his symbol - a three-light banner, allowed them to make him a symbol of a whole country, and we accept it as something new, original. The result of this is known to all of us.

Today it’s forbidden to talk about it, tomorrow it will be forbidden to show it, after tomorrow it will be our everything. Of us make Ivanov not remembering.

ps
Swastika is an ancient symbol. The symbol of fascism is on a red panel, a white circle, inside which is located a swastika. Only together these components are a symbol of fascism.

the swastika has nothing to do with fascism, and fascism as an ideology was born in Italy long before Hitler and also has nothing to do with it. In general, the swastika, in fact, is the cross of Shiva, a symbol of Hinduism. All other characters similar to it are called and look different, and they are constantly confused by illiterate people.

[Nadir shah]

Quote: kalibr

Quote: samarin1969

The indomitability of the Vietnamese was beautifully described in a series of articles on VO ..

Fueled by the supply of weapons and food from the USSR and China!

but people are fighting. Before that, even the paddlers drove the fuck out of the country.

[Nadir shah]

Quote: Operator

Quote: Evgeny Fedorov

I read the book of [Adam Ace] carefully

I have not read the book, but condemn (joke)

According to information available on the Internet, Germany's motive for WWII was revenge for the defeat in WWII under the guise of the slogan of the struggle against communist expansionism in the person of the USSR. This goal has been warmly supported by all European countries since the advent of the war party led by Hitler. Immediately after the 1933, the WWII winners in Britain, France and the USA renounced the right to recover reparations from Germany, lifted contractual restrictions on the creation of the German armed forces, issued multi-billion dollar loans, transferred military-technical technologies in large quantities, including complete equipment for aviation and engine-building plants, etc. .d. etc.

In addition, Germany was consistently allowed to occupy the demilitarized Ruhr region (the center of the German military-industrial complex), annex Austria and the Czech Republic with great industrial potential, and occupy Poland (by refusing Britain and France from their allied obligations). But Hitler’s plan in one single point did not coincide with the plan of his Western sponsors - Hitler did not want the WWII situation with the German war to be repeated on two fronts, so he first took control of all European countries (with the exception of Britain), and only then began military operations on the eastern front.

Hitler made only one mistake - he did not finish off the British Empire before the attack on the USSR, which Stalin did not expect from him, who logically predicted the beginning of the war with Germany in the 1942 year (after the completion of the German occupation of the British Isles).

Germany needed the consolidation of the resource, industrial and agricultural potential of Europe in order to achieve multiple economic superiority over the USSR - all countries of continental Europe, including Spain, Portugal, Switzerland and Sweden, worked shockingly on the German Reich. Therefore, in principle, Germany could do without the slave labor of Soviet prisoners of war and extradited residents from the occupied territory of the USSR.

But the calculation of the German economists (who advised Hitler) turned out to be erroneous - the economy of the USSR (taking into account the help of the Allies in Lendlis) was sufficient to defeat the economy of all Europe (with the exception of Britain).

not everyone worked there. Spain, Portugal and Switzerland did not work, the Swedes only supplied metal, Italy was preoccupied with its problems, etc. All Europe does not even smell there.

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

Just like ,, smells ,,. Without the Czech T-35 and T-38, the whole tank divisions of the Germans would have remained without tanks. There would be nothing to get to Moscow. For example. The Czech ,, Hetzer, “caused many problems to Soviet tankmen in 1944-45. Hungarian and Italian tanks, self-propelled guns based on French tanks, French aircraft engines ..... In 1943, an exhibition of captured weapons was opened in Moscow. There, it was clearly presented, the whole of Europe, decided once again to stay in Russia

[kalibr]

Quote: samarin1969

But there is still an army and such warriors, they are afraid of Russia, even with second-rate GDP.

Any person can be ... killed, intimidated, bought, seduced, or done the same with his friend so that he does the same with his friend ... And only with the economy such numbers do not work. GDP is either there or not.

[kalibr]

Quote: Nadir Shah

Before that, even the paddlers drove the fuck out of the country

Which they themselves would be happy to leave. And besides, they were already helped then ...

[kalibr]

Quote: ccsr

At least the attack on the USSR was a manifestation of its terrible incompetence in terms of assessing the USSR as its adversary, and this best describes him as an ordinary politician.

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

[evgeniy.plotnikov.2019mail.ru]

I do not want to upset anyone, but both Hitler and Stalin turned out to be puppets in the hands of experienced ,, puppeteers ,,. Both the WWII and WWII were invented and carefully ORGANIZED by the bloody "performances", which brought excellent profit to those who performed the "production". The decision ,, war-to be ,, was adopted ,, world behind the scenes ,, on winter holidays 1929-30gg. Almost 10 years before the official start! ,, Ears ,, it’s hard to hide and those who want to understand the events of the 30th century can, for example, carefully read the US shipbuilding program in the early XNUMXs. Although the same ,, pre-war ,, Stalin himself is to blame for something ... He should have listened less to his own and foreign ,, communist-internationalists ,,. Listened - it means, after the heart, were their sweet speeches. Hitler had less to listen to people like Canaris ... But again, heartfelt intentions came into force, as far back as in My struggle, described. As a result, both two or two leaders played exactly the roles that they were distributed by the English-speaking big bourgeoisie

[Doliva63]

Sauckel was immediately hanged in vain. It was necessary to give a couple of years to work in the camp with the most severe regime, and then hang. To imbued, so to speak. Inhumans.

[Operator]

Quote: EXPrompt

Industrial potential 3 Reich at the beginning of the war 14% of world GDP

What was the total industrial potential of Germany, France, Italy, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Bohemia and Moravia, the Governor General, Serbia, Bosnia as of June 22 of June 1941, Greece and Albania from world GDP?