A new type of 3D radar has been created in Russia

114
A prototype radar based on radio photonics technology has been created in Russia. It will give out information in the form of a three-dimensional image. This is reported "News”With reference to its own sources in the Ministry of Defense.





The Russian army may soon receive a new type of radar, which is capable of detecting targets more efficiently than traditional stations even in the presence of jamming. The fundamental difference between radiophotonic locators is that the signal processing in them is carried out using optics, and not through microwave electronics.

The new technology creates an 3D image of the object, its three-dimensional portrait, and allows you to determine its type. It is assumed that in the next few years, radio photon radars will be installed on promising multi-functional fighters of a new generation.

The first prototype of a radar on discrete radio-photonic elements has already been created, the head of RTI JSC Maxim Kuzyuk told Izvestia. According to Izvestia sources in the Ministry of Defense, the military is taking part in tests of new type locators.

Promising technology has several advantages at once. First of all, this is the size of the new locators - it is assumed that their size will be significantly smaller than that of those in service. In addition, they are more reliable. Thirdly, it is more resistant to electromagnetic radiation. Not the last role is played by the resolving power of the locator, and noise immunity.

At the moment, the company is developing the technology and conducting tests, being in search of a new base component. In particular, the developers talk about the need for photonic integrated circuits.
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    1. +11
      12 September 2019 19: 38
      Component base .... That which is not, unfortunately. So the prototype will remain a prototype until we create our own production base.
      1. -5
        12 September 2019 19: 48
        Now effective managers will calculate everything and .... nothing will happen laughing
        1. +24
          12 September 2019 20: 28
          Quote: 210ox
          Component base
          Actually the question is interesting. As I understand it, in ROFAR they go into the range of shorter waves - in the tz. We made free-electron terrahertz lasers in this range. The authors complained about problems with optical elements for him. The range is good for spectroscopy of organic molecules and compounds. The results obtained are interesting on this principle, and the wonders of technology will appear. But about micro (mini) components with a radiator in this range, I saw only enemy publications. Perhaps this topic is closed for us, as it is closed for some other lasers. But, it is curious how the developers solved the problem of low efficiency and, accordingly, range resolution.
          1. +4
            12 September 2019 21: 18
            As I understand it, in ROFAR they go into the range of shorter waves - in the tz.

            Not necessary. ROFAR uses an optical source and various optical devices (including those based on integrated optics) to generate and distribute the useful signal between the emitters of the antenna array for transmission, as well as to process the useful signal for reception. But at the same time, the useful signal emitted into space may well be radio frequency.
          2. 0
            12 September 2019 21: 23
            But, curiously, how the developers solved the problem of low efficiency


            Another thing is curious - the radars will not climb anywhere above 9cm, 3 cm. Maximum 8 mm, 3 mm, if there is nowhere to stick the antenna - for short distances up to 20 km. The attenuation is too high even in 8-3 mm windows.
            To draw an 3D picture at a distance of at least 20 km? laughing Angle and range resolution with a DN width of 0 degrees and a duration of 5 μs will give a cylinder of 0 x 5 meters - this is your "pixel", a brush. Try to draw an airplane.
            The necessary resolution for such a picture is at least 1x1 meter. This means that ADCs capable of directly processing the carrier of the radio pulse will be needed. But this is already what all techies are struggling with the whole world - the transition to the real CAFAR.
            So, or not all Jews from Russia have left and continue to work laughing , or another "no analogs"
            1. +11
              12 September 2019 22: 38
              Angle and range resolution with a width of the DN of 0 degrees and a duration of 5 μs will give a cylinder of 0 x 5 meters - this is your "pixel", a brush.

              Why 0,5 μs? If you look at the frequency band, this is only about 2 MHz (if the signal is simple). Why not take, say, the 2 GHz band? This is exactly the "trick" of ROFAR - its potential ability to operate with broadband signals. That is, to form them, digitize without spectrum transfer and process.
              This means that ADCs capable of directly processing the carrier of the radio pulse will be needed. But this is already what all techies are struggling with the whole world - the transition to the real CAFAR.

              Or ROFAR. Google about radio-optical ADCs.
              So either not all Jews from Russia have left and continue to work laughing, or another "has no analogues"

              Or someone too lazy to figure out the topic hurried to comment on the news laughing
              1. -1
                12 September 2019 22: 58
                Or someone too lazy to figure out the topic ...


                Figured out? I ask ... laughing So, please - the carrier, the shape of the probing signal, the type of antenna system, the phase distribution along the aperture, what is the "fine" structure (temporal and spatial) of the emitted and received signal, due to which such an outstanding resolution is provided in range, and most importantly - in angle ... I'll just say thank you. And I'm not alone.
                And then apart from the articles "Oh, ROFAR, cool" there is not a damn thing, and there is no more strength to read Voskresensky again. And yes, I do not believe in gravity.
                1. +15
                  13 September 2019 00: 39
                  and most importantly - in the corner.

                  Did I write something about a corner? Where?
                  which provides such an outstanding range resolution

                  dr = c / 2 * dF
                  where dr is the length of the resolution element, s is the speed of light, dF is the width of the spectrum. By expanding the spectrum of the probe signal. Probably, the United States is used as a probing signal, as a variant of phase-code carrier-shift keying. The antenna fabric is not subject to change; standard antenna arrays are used that can pass several GHz. Alternatively, the open ends of the waveguides. Or Vivaldi. The phase distribution is linear. The whole trick is the use of various radio photon devices for generating and processing a signal, for example a radio photon generator, which in the simplest case is essentially an optical modulator, in which from the output to the modulating input through an optical line, a photodetector, an RF frequency feeder line with a microwave filter and a power amplifier a positive feedback loop is connected, a sine wave at the optical frequency is fed to the modulated input. It is stated that such a generator has a high frequency tuning range. More details can be found here:
                  The optoelectronic generator is the first microwave optoelectronic device. M.E. Belkin, A.V. Loparev. // Electronics: Science, technology, business №6. 2010 year
                  Tunable spin-wave optoelectronic microwave generator. A.B. Ustinov, A.A. Nikitin, B.A. Kalinikos. // All-Russian Conference "Microwave Electronics and Microelectronics". 2015 year
                  Radio-optical ADCs are also being developed. Various implementations are considered, for example, with the modulation of the optical sine wave by a radio frequency signal, followed by suppression of the carrier and demultiplexing of the resulting side harmonics with a modulated frequency and parallel digitization.
                  Analog-to-Digital Converter Survey and Analysis. Robert H. Walden. // IEEE JOURNAL ON SELECTED AREAS IN COMMUNICATIONS, VOL. 17, NO. 4, APRIL. 1999 year
                  Prospects for implementing ADCs using microwave photonics. Yu.N. Volkhin. // Scientific seminar "Modern problems of radiophysics and radio engineering" 29.01.2011/2015/XNUMX. XNUMX year
                  An overview of possible ways to implement radio photon ADCs. E.V. Tikhonov, Yu.N. Volkhin. // V All-Russian scientific and technical conference "Exchange of experience in the field of ultra-wideband radio-electronic systems" (UHF-2014). 2014 year
                  A.V. Hamilovskaya, A.A. Belousov, E.V. Tikhonov, A.A. Dubrovskaya, Yu.N. Volkhin .// Electronic technology. Series 2: Semiconductors. No. 5 (239). S. 4-11. 2015 year
                  Radio-optical power distribution systems are also being developed in which the optical sinusoid modulated by the radio signal is shared between the emitters using optical transmission lines. The spectrum is transferred to the radio frequency region immediately in front of the emitters.
                  Review and study of possible options for the implementation of ultra-wideband analog processors in the microwave range using methods and means of radio photonics.
                  So, please - the carrier, the shape of the probing signal, the type of antenna system, the phase distribution along the aperture, what is the "fine" structure (temporal and spatial) of the emitted and received signal, due to which such an outstanding resolution is provided in range, and most importantly - in angle ...

                  In the reptile fells laughing
                  and Voskresensky has no strength to read again.

                  In vain. Dmitry Ivanovich writes very sensible books. And it still works. But in 43 he began. By the way, he wrote about radio photonics, back in 1986 wink
                  Voskresensky, Dmitry Ivanovich.
                  Radio-optical antenna arrays / D. I. Voskresensky, A. Yu. Grinev, E. N. Voronin. - M.: Radio and communications, 1986. - 239 p.
                2. +5
                  13 September 2019 02: 11
                  Quote: dauria
                  And yes, I do not believe in gravity.

                  And she is! To the cinema ! fellow
                  Quote: dauria
                  And then besides the articles "Oh, ROFAR, cool" not a damn thing

                  Duc, the topic is tricky! A few half liters are not enough! "As far as I remember right now" .... back in the 70-80s of the last century, the topic of "radio vision" was actively discussed in technical journals! They were going to solve the "theme" then without "radio photons" ... with the help of the "classical" concepts of radio electronics ... various variants of the ritual with a tambourine were proposed for the "signature-aperture" range of radar technology ...
                  1. +2
                    13 September 2019 11: 12
                    A few pounds can not do!

                    I'll scoop up and try ... The idea of ​​super-resolution in the corner was put forward by Varyukhin in the 60s. Doctors in the USSR were not given in vain, one has to believe.
                    Here's what it is - inside the main petal in degrees (calculated at least in a worker-peasant way 51 lambdas per L, even through an honest summation of the sinusoids of the elements), you can cut narrow sections in a clever way. We remember everything that came back from the target - we digitize each sinusoid completely. We store the array in memory. And then we begin to impose a phase mask of dips (zeros) on it. There are no phase shifters on ferrites or delay lines. There is a programmed phase shift with supposedly any accuracy. Probing one, and then only "cutting" in memory. And voila - a picture of hairs inside a wide brush.
                    Like so . If not, correct it.
                    1. +3
                      13 September 2019 15: 53
                      Quote: dauria
                      Like so . If not, correct it.

                      Yes, what is there .... quite acceptable presentation ... adjusted for its brevity. If you analyze all the "nuances", then you have to swing the "shirsh", but do we need it now? No.
            2. 0
              13 September 2019 10: 54
              Half a degree of DN, where did you get it from? For a red word? And 20 km.? The attenuation parameters depend on the parameters of the atmosphere itself. At sea level, and at the level of 10-15 km, these are two big differences. And in the stratosphere there will generally be a near-zero level of attenuation. The radio-photon theme moves under hypersound and the stratosphere, where its application will be.
          3. +2
            12 September 2019 21: 27

            Setup of the proposed photonics-based radar. DPMZM: ​​dual-parallel Mach-Zehnder modulator; PD: photodetector; PM: electro-optical phase modulator; OBPF: optical bandpass filter; ELPF: electrical low-pass filter; ADC: analog-to-digital conversion. Inset: principle for de-chirping of a LFM signal.
            I did not understand what you see as the problem of low efficiency, maybe this article of the Chinese will help you, they developed such a radar two years ago (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5653754/).
            1. +10
              12 September 2019 23: 09
              Quote: Undecim
              I didn’t understand what you see the problem of low efficiency, maybe this article of the Chinese will help you, they developed such a radar two years ago
              What kind of radar did the Chinese develop two years ago? You yourself have not tried to read the article on your link? It is about laboratory work on an optical table with an emitter in the near infrared range. The resolution is 1mm and 4mm, but the range is from half a meter to 3x. Our students are also engaged in such demonstrations of the "defect" and learn to write articles.
              Where is the military ROFAR, and where is the table "with a light bulb".
              1. +3
                12 September 2019 23: 16
                You see, the article helped, cheered up. So why does low efficiency bother you?
          4. -3
            12 September 2019 23: 10
            What did they invent lidar?
            Widely used in the navigation of unmanned vehicles on the road?
        2. +2
          13 September 2019 05: 19
          development has been going on for a long time .. if you are not good .. doesn’t mean that everything is bad there))
        3. -2
          13 September 2019 13: 58
          Maxim Kuzyuk is the top manager who went bankrupt (razderbanil) IzhMash
          In 1999-2003 he headed the division, and later the enterprise of the ArtTechCenter group of companies.

          From 2004 to 2006, he worked at DrillTech Rus (Moscow), a company specializing in the construction of pipelines using horizontal directional drilling, first as the head of the financial and economic department, and then as deputy general director and project manager.

          2007 to 2010 years held various positions in the Paris office of The Boston Consulting Group (BCG).

          From 2010 to 2011, he worked as the director of the Moscow representative office of BCG. [4]

          From 2011 to 2012 for a year he held the position of Deputy General Director, and then - General Director of the NGO Izhmash".[5]

          From 2012 to 2016 - General Director of the holding "Aviation Equipment" (in 2015, changed its name to "Technodynamics") [6].

          Since 2017 - General Director of RTI

          So, the arrangement of beds in a brothel does not affect his profit
      2. -1
        12 September 2019 19: 49
        Quote: 210ox
        until we create our own production base.

        In the meantime, we have someone else's production base? lol
        1. +7
          12 September 2019 19: 57
          We can say that - yes, a stranger. Mostly Asian. This is about electronics. And if we chew snot, then we will remain on it.
          1. +8
            12 September 2019 20: 17
            Quote: 210ox
            We can say that - yes, a stranger. Mostly Asian. This is about electronics. And if we chew snot, then we will remain on it.

            Not so sad, 210 laughing we have someone to do electronics. And equipment for its production. I agree, much has been done to destroy the BASE. And for the extermination of personnel, and for the destruction of factories ... But it hurts our country is great. Did not finish wassat
            1. -13
              12 September 2019 21: 12
              Quote: 210ox
              until we create our production base.

              Quote: 210ox
              We can say that - yes, a stranger. Mostly Asian. This is about electronics.

              Here you are raking laughing
              Left for the base, I won’t return right away laughing
              Whose vegetable base are you? Turkish? laughing
              1. -2
                13 September 2019 17: 08
                Yes, even in our Kuban there are Turkish vegetable depots ..
                1. -1
                  13 September 2019 20: 21
                  Rave. In network stores? Yes, they take it in volume. Don't buy anything in the market? Koreans grow a lot of vegetables during the season.
          2. -5
            12 September 2019 20: 27
            There is nothing wrong with using mass commercial electronics - it greatly reduces the cost of the product. The main thing is to procure the right amount on time.
          3. -6
            12 September 2019 21: 06
            Do not we chew snot!
            1. -15
              12 September 2019 21: 16
              So how delicious? laughing
              1. -1
                13 September 2019 19: 01
                Learn to read letters!
      3. 0
        12 September 2019 20: 09
        Quote: 210ox
        Component base .... That which is not, unfortunately. So the prototype will remain a prototype until we create our own production base.

        And you probably saw the scheme? By the way, they planned South Korean on Vityaz, but did not grow together
        1. -1
          12 September 2019 20: 24
          Everything has grown together. They even installed an analogue of the "Vityaz", created in cooperation.
          1. +2
            12 September 2019 20: 36
            Quote: 210ox
            Everything has grown together.

            Well, let’s put it first. We developed the KAM SAM and solved it well and asked the Koreans with the element base for Vityaz, they did not refuse, the Yankees banned, because Vityaz entered service with 2x a summer delay. And in the course that exclusively domestic lamps are used for signal transmission on television?
            1. -1
              12 September 2019 20: 46
              In the know that analogue television is no longer in fact? Yes, and for many TVs, it is as if not relevant?
              1. 0
                12 September 2019 20: 53
                Quote: 210ox
                In the know that analogue television is no longer in fact?

                I know. I am friends with RTRS
      4. The comment was deleted.
        1. The comment was deleted.
      5. 0
        12 September 2019 22: 18
        I worked at an enterprise that manufactured chips back in Soviet times, the output in malamalsky complex was interest, and sometimes a fraction of a percent.
      6. 0
        13 September 2019 00: 47
        For the most part, we have been doing the component base for the defense industry for the most part ourselves. But in general, ROFAR will revolutionize combat aircraft, which in essence will mean our complete superiority.
      7. +1
        13 September 2019 06: 30
        In Russia, a prototype radar and another phrase from the article being in search of a new base component.. (blinded from what was ...). These are mutually exclusive concepts. How can it be created in a form suitable for testing in the absence of a new specific base component? It's not FPGAs to re-patch and crack, that a new chip has been released. All that will be is the theoretical predictions of the supervisors and curators, a beautiful passage to present in order to knock out money. Gentlemen, if you have a conscience, tell me far - have you advanced with ROFAR? How much noise and dust were raised under fiery promises. They promised to show the pilot through the skin)))
      8. +2
        13 September 2019 10: 44
        With the component base, Roselectronics has more than 120 electronic component manufacturing enterprises at KRET, which actually deals with this locator, 97 research institutes and enterprises, is engaged in optical systems in Swabe, Angstrom and others produce printed circuit boards.
      9. 0
        13 September 2019 16: 39
        In addition to ERI, not a word is how many times this technology is more expensive than microwave, radars will be very expensive, and radio photonics are sensitive to low temperatures and much more negative ...
    2. +6
      12 September 2019 19: 53
      Such a radar can become a real technological and defense breakthrough if the development is not taken away and the production of such equipment is made massive enough. For 76 SU-57 (to 2028 according to the procurement plan) is too small for a huge country and its big war. And we have to live all the time under the threat of this big war.
      Sometimes I think: maybe it's time to start sorting out a little, one at a time with those that threaten us? They are the same with Czechoslovakia in 1938 and with Poland in 1939 zass.t again fit in. And then live without the threat of a big war, huh?
      1. -10
        12 September 2019 21: 20
        Quote: Galleon
        too little for a huge country and its big war.

        And what are we fighting already? laughing
        By adult, by and large? lol

        Quote: Galleon
        Sometimes I think: maybe it's time to start sorting out a little, one at a time with those that threaten us?

        To start, turn off the TV.
        Then take the valerian.
        Maybe let it go.

        You are not the case from the Baltic? laughing

        Paranoia is no joke. I remember one high-ranking pepper shouting "Russians are coming" leaping out of the window. lol
      2. +3
        12 September 2019 22: 51
        Listen, in 2008 they said that by 2020 the Su-34 will receive only 34 pieces.
        And what? Are there 34 of them in the troops?
      3. 0
        13 September 2019 12: 27
        Quote: Galleon
        Sometimes I think: maybe it's time to start sorting out a little, one at a time with those that threaten us? They are the same with Czechoslovakia in 1938 and with Poland in 1939 zass.t again fit in. And then live without the threat of a big war, huh?


        Well, yes, there the Germans were oppressed in the Sudetenland, here the Russians in Crimea
    3. 0
      12 September 2019 20: 01
      And on IKO is not the Penguin invisible by the hour? Toto Lockheed vparivayut and sundry, except for the Turks. I did not have time to stand on the wing, but bully
      1. +2
        12 September 2019 20: 05
        Quote: Tusv
        And on IKO is not the Penguin invisible by the hour? Toto Lockheed vparivayut and sundry, except for the Turks. I did not have time to stand on the wing, but bully

        there by the way armchair and other guts
    4. -5
      12 September 2019 20: 09
      Let Israel buy more FU-35, like other countries. And we have them, and for the cook ... laughing tongue wassat
    5. +2
      12 September 2019 20: 11
      "This is reported by "Izvestia" with reference to its own sources in the Ministry of Defense."
      Do we somehow fight with talkers in Moscow Region?
      1. +4
        12 September 2019 21: 25
        Quote: Nycomed
        Do we somehow fight with talkers in Moscow Region?

        What's the point? Who coined the term A2 / AD? Now come up with how to hack it. And We have the main patrol fighter on the border who? Su-xnumx, why? To be seen and not lost. Well, in general, why spend expensive rockets on them? You can just say we see you, do not bother, otherwise you will burst from the strain bully
      2. +2
        12 September 2019 21: 49
        Do we somehow fight with talkers in Moscow Region?


        There are no talkers, reporters make them up. You have to live on something. Here we heard "ROFAR", then everything is simple - the words "own source" and semi-literate nonsense with a bunch of "terms" and shocking generally understood results are written.
        For example, "according to the Harmuth method, a radar on a non-sinusoidal carrier was created using Walsh's orthogonal functions. Our knowledgeable source confirmed the unique capabilities - during the test, we managed to see the inscription
        "Dangerous air intake". And in color "
        (By the way, the first sentence of "nonsense" is the purest truth of the 70th year laughing )
    6. +6
      12 September 2019 20: 12
      I think that is why we are not particularly in a hurry to change PFARs to AFARs. ROFAR is being developed and I think that in the next 5 years we will have serial ROFAR with us, and maybe earlier. This technology is not only relevant for aviation, but for the fleet, as well as for air defense systems of all levels.
      1. +3
        12 September 2019 21: 02
        Quote: NEXUS
        I think that is why we are not particularly in a hurry to change PFARs to AFARs.

        There is probably a more banal reason. AFAR has its own power source for each cell, while AFAR has a common one. At least they write it like that. Not copenhagen. It is quite possible Ours believe that a common source is more reliable and powerful, and every schoolchild could collect color music in the USSR bully
        1. +4
          12 September 2019 22: 21
          Quote: Tusv
          There is probably a more banal reason. AFAR has a separate power source for each cell;

          The problem is that in AFAR, with all their advancement, there are several thousand individually controlled transceivers inside. Setting up this whole "gang" is very difficult! Special "anechoic" chambers ... and everything is expensive. And for a long time. And the elements burn out slowly, their regimes are tough. Like a matrix with pixels. And the antenna is slowly "weakening" ... And in PFAR - repair - replace the magnetron, roughly speaking.
          From the point of view of combat stability - who knows which is better? When problems begin with maintenance, when flights are not on schedule, but out of combat necessity, when spare parts are interrupted, and it is necessary to prepare a combat mission, and the test program says that the antenna is almost "on the brink" ... As an example.
          1. +2
            12 September 2019 22: 37
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            And in PFAR - repair - replace the magnetron, roughly speaking.
            From the point of view of combat stability - who knows what is better?

            It was the microwave generator during the database that died, it saved someone from the guard for a day, bedside tables and other charms of non-combat life. Not. From the point of view of the Paramilitary, no one will exchange his database for the nightstand. So let them fly, but no closer than the stooshka from the border. Gray drinks
        2. +3
          12 September 2019 23: 11
          Not a power source, but a radiation source, if simple. Nutrition is a slightly different topic. But you caught the essence correctly, and yet yes - PFAR is more powerful. True, there are also disadvantages compared to AFAR (there, each cell can emit and receive a signal at its own frequency)
          It seems like multi-frequency - you’ll forget the hell with interference. True, the radiation power of one cell is small - 5, well, 7 watts. So with kilowatt power PFAR, to put it mildly, it will be "more vigorous".
          But if the "magnetron" of the PFAR is skipped, the plane will go blind. For AFAR, failure of a cell is a loss of five hundredth or one thousandth of the radiation power.
          In my opinion, AFAR is the future of interference-free communications. And EW and RTR.
          In radar, they are already approaching the peak of power and, accordingly, range. The reserves are only in signal processing algorithms, but here the AFAR is not much larger than the AFAR - the mathematics are the same.
      2. +1
        13 September 2019 14: 51
        I think that is why we are not particularly in a hurry to change PFARs to AFARs.
        Saving and lagging in technology are the main reasons. For example, the AFAR MiG-35, which was shown at the MAKS (see open photos from the exhibition), has 1016 active anti-aircraft missiles against the 1st and the array of phase shifters in PFAR. In addition, the AFAR parameters depend on the scatter of the characteristics of individual MRPs, and their changes over time. Accordingly, taking into account the quantity and strict selection by characteristics, the price tag on the AFAR is significantly higher than the PFAR.
    7. -1
      12 September 2019 20: 17
      Well, I hope the tests have confirmed compliance with the stated specifications. Then, it is necessary to put it in at least a small batch this year in the part for practical reconciliation, for the treatment of inevitable "childhood diseases".
    8. +3
      12 September 2019 20: 21
      Well, why bother ringing until they are in the army? Recently, effective mangers have all new developments only in the future tense ...
      1. +2
        12 September 2019 21: 07
        Quote: czes
        Recently, effective mangers have all new developments only in the future tense ...

        It seems to me that in the paramilitary defective menegraphs are not allowed bully Suspiciously cultural at home organization
      2. 0
        12 September 2019 23: 16
        So each new "pen shark" needs a chip for promotion. And here the topic is gracious in every sense. Secrecy, almost none of those who can reach the truth will not say. On the one hand, it’s bad, but on the other, nobody will check.
        1. 0
          12 September 2019 23: 47
          Quote: Vlad.by
          On the one hand, it’s bad, but on the other, nobody will check.

          Then the RS-135 at Our shores is constantly hanging around. And he’s worse and worse bully
    9. +1
      12 September 2019 20: 22
      Photonic radar ... is what they call "disruptive technology." It is very difficult to remain "invisible" in the field of view of this "eye". And if you have ceased to be invisible, what will affect the outcome of the air battle? Speed, agility, weapons! Hello Penguins tongue
      1. +4
        12 September 2019 22: 55
        This is not a photon radar. Conventional RADIO WAVES are irradiated by the enemy.
        Photons (laser) help to generate these radio waves. More flexible (at different frequencies) and with less power consumption.
        1. +1
          12 September 2019 23: 04
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This is not a photon radar. Conventional RADIO WAVES are irradiated by the enemy.
          Photons (laser) help to generate these radio waves. More flexible (at different frequencies) and with less power consumption.

          Who cares what you call it? Is there such a device? There is. Allows you to see much previously difficult to detect? Allows. Does he see the "invisible"? He sees. So let it "work" ... for us to strengthen ...
          1. -2
            12 September 2019 23: 09
            "Sees the" invisible "? Sees." ////
            ----
            No. Does not see. 3-D image can only be received
            at close range up to 10 km.
            And at such a distance, and optics see, an ordinary optical sight.
            And the shorter the waves, the easier they are absorbed by the stealth coating.
            1. +1
              12 September 2019 23: 25
              Quote: voyaka uh
              No. Does not see. 3-D image can only be received
              at close range up to 10 km.

              Pancake. Alex, what planet did you jump from? Already civil infrared cameras see cars over 40 km. Ours already boast over 60 ty in optics. Quite believable hi
              1. -1
                12 September 2019 23: 30
                IR cameras do not irradiate an object. They get reflected
                signal from the object in the infrared range.
                Radars train an object with radio waves and receive a reflected signal.
                Rofar is a radar, not an optical camera.
                1. +2
                  12 September 2019 23: 33
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  Rofar is a radar

                  You see, I, out of habit, call what is in the picture, IKO - The circular view indicator, and it is rectangular drinks Not everything is square round. ABOUT! IR sensor same radar and finally color is the reflected beam from the surface
        2. 0
          13 September 2019 15: 02
          This is not a photon radar. Conventional RADIO WAVES are irradiated by the enemy
          Oh, I found at least one interesting comment. And in more detail it is possible, any links? And then the radar in the optical and near that range looks to put it mildly a complete fiction due to the large scattering in the atmosphere.
    10. 0
      12 September 2019 20: 41
      It is logical, since the quantum radar was invented in the USSR. It was marked "Photon" BN-0-004. Allowed to detect and track all targets that could be detected in the area of ​​its action. More details here:

    11. -12
      12 September 2019 20: 41
      Interesting news .. And Israel obviously has had such a system for a long time .. How they famously set up our Il-with specialists .. They all calculated up to a second.
      1. +11
        12 September 2019 21: 20
        I will probably express an unpopular thought: the death of IL-20 is a puncture of those who were involved in planning. Comrades 'circumcised' just wisely used the situation
        1. -1
          13 September 2019 17: 50
          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          Comrades 'circumcised' just wisely used the situation

          What, what, and in this they are specialists, but this time they miscalculated .. Hoped Russia to quarrel with Syria? We have studied their nature well and all their tricks, provocations .. And how can we resist! For the first time, we were not afraid to blame them for this terrible loss for us .. And then all of a sudden they hushed up, it seemed like there was nothing well, well ..
          1. 0
            13 September 2019 18: 06
            Quote: Kontrik
            .. were not afraid to accuse them of this terrible loss for us .. And then all of a sudden they suddenly hushed up, ..

            The loss is simply limitless and it must be comprehended so that it does not happen again. I am not defending Khel ha'Avir, they did not count on such a result and also learned a lesson - the Russians did not lose the ability to act decisively: only God knows how they agreed
        2. +1
          13 September 2019 23: 41
          Quote: Pete Mitchell
          I will express an unpopular thought

          I will express an even more unpopular thought: there were no "circumcised comrades", who themselves seem to be pretty fucking crazy from such a development of events. Unfortunately, there are times in life that are more intricate than our wildest fantasies ...
    12. +1
      12 September 2019 20: 43
      So soon we will see ROFAR and let the fshatsk litter be paid further for stealth.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    13. +3
      12 September 2019 20: 46
      "First of all, these are the dimensions of the new radars - it is assumed that their size will be significantly smaller than those in service. In addition, they are more reliable. Thirdly, they are more resistant to electromagnetic radiation. Not the least role is played by the resolution of the locator, and noise immunity. "
      And here the question arises of the MiG-21, which for overwhelming superiority over the F-16 (superiority of the 2 generation over the 4-m) lacks just a good radar.
      "- This is unaesthetic!
      - But cheap, reliable and practical. "(Film" The Diamond Arm ")
    14. 0
      12 September 2019 20: 54
      Can we talk about the imminent decline of the era of stealth technology?
      1. +1
        12 September 2019 21: 37
        Quote: Sarduor
        Can we talk about the imminent decline of the era of stealth technology?

        Well, for Our defense doctrine, Stealth has always been a so-so advantage. RTV has always seen Fighters take off But for the rest of the World, the Yankees will decipher anyone who doesn't buy their dollar
    15. +5
      12 September 2019 21: 02
      Quote: Galleon
      They are the same with Czechoslovakia in 1938 and with Poland in 1939 zass.t again fit in. And then live without the threat of a big war, huh?

      Then the Leader of the other was ... Not like the other. And the country is a little different .. And people ..
      1. -1
        12 September 2019 21: 11
        Quote: paul3390
        Then the Leader of the other was ... Not like the other.

        Maybe, maybe. But stsat is the same
    16. +7
      12 September 2019 21: 09
      Quote: 210ox
      Component base .... That which is not, unfortunately. So the prototype will remain a prototype until we create our own production base.

      It all depends on political will. In 50, the will to fly into space was. Now she is gone.
      The results are known.
      1. -8
        12 September 2019 21: 21
        In the 50-ies it was very lucky, we managed to get some technologies from the Germans. And these technologies themselves were much simpler.
    17. -1
      12 September 2019 21: 17
      Hello ROFAR. We were waiting for you. Once the news has leaked, then there is a real finish line. Years 5-6, I think. May God grant.
    18. +2
      12 September 2019 21: 39
      Quote: Mestny
      In the 50-ies it was very lucky, we managed to get some technologies from the Germans. And these technologies themselves were much simpler.

      Taking someone else's is cheaper and faster.
      This is even known to Kot Matroskin. And wild geese flying in the fall to Africa. They change the leader as he gets tired. Today Russia does not have much to borrow from anyone. Since it is ahead of some positions.
      1. -1
        13 September 2019 10: 07
        So I say - lucky.
        Americans with German technology were even luckier then.
    19. 0
      12 September 2019 21: 43
      I wonder if this radar will see the F22 from large distances ?? Thanks to three-dimensionality, will he be able to level the special design of stealth ?? Can they be seen in volume and thereby they will be unmasked?
    20. +1
      12 September 2019 22: 17
      early to rejoice, there is still very far to a full-fledged production model and how many years it will still be needed
      the first prototype radar on discrete radio photon elements has already been created, and experts from the Ministry of Defense took part in its tests. “During the experiment, the locator tracked the trajectory of a small-sized drone. A full analysis of his work was carried out, on the basis of which the directions for further research were determined, ”said Maxim Kuzyuk, head of the Radio Engineering and Information Systems (RTI Systems) concern.
      He added that the development of such a system requires a new component base, including photonic integrated circuits.
      1. 0
        13 September 2019 10: 49
        Until 2025 they’ll do it.
    21. +11
      12 September 2019 22: 24
      It’s impossible not to be amazed at the exuberant imagination of our journalists. Twisted everything, as in a children's game in a damaged phone. laughing

      We read the title of the article:
      "A new type of 3D radar has been created in Russia"


      A little lower is already more modest:
      A prototype radar based on radio photonics technology has been created in Russia.


      We begin to search for the source and see an article from July 1. 2019 with completely different words:
      The Russian concern RTI has tested a prototype of a new generation of radio-photon radar


      According to Maxim Kuzyuk, general director of the RTI group, the prototype and software of the locator are workable .. The designers' next task is to create a simulation-modeling stand and improve the hardware and software of the locator, including through the creation of integrated photonic circuits.


      Then we suddenly find out that this is not even a prototype but a layout. Those. soldered several elements that still showed some kind of signal when moving opposite. The boys still don’t even have a stand to measure what it shows .. There are already complaining about the lack of production of the element base, and the guys are planning to develop the circuits themselves!

      In general, early commentators are calling on the new 3D radar to be transmitted. In this topic, even the horse has not yet lied. : ((
    22. +4
      12 September 2019 23: 58
      Quote: Saxahorse
      It’s impossible not to be amazed at the exuberant imagination of our journalists. Twisted everything, as in a children's game in a damaged phone. laughing

      We read the title of the article:
      "A new type of 3D radar has been created in Russia"


      A little lower is already more modest:
      A prototype radar based on radio photonics technology has been created in Russia.


      We begin to search for the source and see an article from July 1. 2019 with completely different words:
      The Russian concern RTI has tested a prototype of a new generation of radio-photon radar


      According to Maxim Kuzyuk, general director of the RTI group, the prototype and software of the locator are workable .. The designers' next task is to create a simulation-modeling stand and improve the hardware and software of the locator, including through the creation of integrated photonic circuits.


      Then we suddenly find out that this is not even a prototype but a layout. Those. soldered several elements that still showed some kind of signal when moving opposite. The boys still don’t even have a stand to measure what it shows .. There are already complaining about the lack of production of the element base, and the guys are planning to develop the circuits themselves!

      In general, early commentators are calling on the new 3D radar to be transmitted. In this topic, even the horse has not yet lied. : ((


      FPI has been closely involved in this since at least 2015
      Secondly, the ERA is very close to this issue.
      Thirdly, this is one of the priority areas in the topic of radio photonics, and also in St. Petersburg at ITMO we have opened one of the most important areas for this topic
      Why is this all? With photon radar beyond SU 57 from the Chinese to the Turks and Indians, there will be a turn.
      I will say more that after these considerable contracts, it seems that with the "partners" they can stir up a light fighter of the 5th generation together. The Turks are not doing badly with the UAV, it is quite possible to design the same bundle as the Su 57-Okhotnik.
      India is cheap rabsila.
      It is important that it is cheaper and better than f 35 (and with a photon radar it will already be so), i.e. two times cheaper to be attractive.
    23. +1
      13 September 2019 02: 07
      Everything is fine, of course, but AFAR, when will they put at least su35 ???
    24. +1
      13 September 2019 05: 24
      one question; when will sales start to "partners"?
    25. +2
      13 September 2019 08: 15
      Despite the fact that the American company Lockheed Martin patented the quantum radar back in 2007, a full-fledged detection system, which can be created for several types of carriers (on land, sea and in the air), was the first to appear in Russia. The key problem in this regard is the short range. The “thank you” for this is the structure of the quantum communication system. In simple terms, the more powerful the bombardment with photons and the system as a whole, the more vulnerable it is. However, statements about the beginning of testing a system of this type in Russia suggests that soon the Russian military will receive a system for which the concepts of "stealth fighter" or "stealth submarine" do not exist in principle.

      The product, according to Life sources in the defense industry, after a while will be ready for installation on the Su-35 fighters, which are classified as generation 4 ++. This technology, according to experts, has become the reason for the increased attention to Russian fighters. ROFAR, which may begin testing on an operating fighter by 2021, will allow generation 4 ++ fighters to detect and "in advance" shoot down any stealth vehicles, including stealthy American fighters F-22, F-35 and B-2 bombers.
    26. +1
      13 September 2019 10: 37
      Quote: Alexey G
      I wonder if this radar will see the F22 from large distances ?? Thanks to three-dimensionality, will he be able to level the special design of stealth ?? Can they be seen in volume and thereby they will be unmasked?

      Stealths can see not due to three-dimensionality, but due to the fact that the detection method is associated with other principles of feeding and receiving a scanning signal. The author boasted of the three-dimensionality of the image, emphasizing the extraordinary resolution. The tremendous amount and speed of information processing. Compose in real time such an accurate and detailed image, examining large angles in the horizon and height. These are terabytes of information.
    27. 0
      13 September 2019 11: 19
      Quote: Nikolai S.
      But, it is curious how the developers solved the problem of low efficiency and, accordingly, range resolution.

      a direct problem probably cannot be solved - you can’t deceive physics, they can only increase the power of emitters
      indirectly, one can try to solve, for example, through interference or other effects.
    28. 0
      13 September 2019 12: 22
      With air, more or less understandable. What did they say about submarines? Will they be observed? Those. for this miracle signal, the environment in which it spreads is not at all important? I even completely behind life ((
    29. +1
      13 September 2019 13: 26
      Several questions immediately arise, on the solution of which it will depend on whether it will become a real model or will remain a theory about which the teachers will tell the cadets when listing theoretically possible options, as it is historically traditionally with us. To begin with, the element base, and whether we are able to produce on-line in sufficient quantities, given the fact that the latest factories and technologies we are rapidly bankrupt and destroy entire industries, and our dealers - "effective" managers successfully melt technologies abroad. An important question in the same row, especially taking into account the intentions of our mediocre, but very active bureaucrats, imitating violent activity (otherwise they will be kicked out of the trough), and even living in a parallel, virtual reality, with difficulty understanding and in which country, to destroy vocational education. And judging by the fact that not a single aircraft engine has been created in 30 years, the problem with bringing ready-made and still Soviet developments is no longer able to even create a "cornfield" or piston sports aircraft, then with queen, yakovlev and tupolev with Ilyushins we have clearly "stress", somehow it does not come from "advanced" users, who can hardly speak their native language, who consider Buzova and House 2 to be the pinnacle of art on them and educated, Kalashnikovs, Bunkins and other great creative people of our once mighty state. In power there are still those who betrayed and destroyed the greatest power, for the sake of their own selfish and philistine desires, organized the robbery of their own homeland, unprecedented in the history of mankind, who consider the moral and material, spiritual values ​​of a hostile power to be their ideal. They are not capable of creation and creativity, and tb. the estate society built by them and with a semi-colonial economy does not allow the development of science and education, but only implies making a profit. I am almost sure that these developments and technologies, together with the leading engineers, will soon be sold to our "partners", like everything that the greedy hands of our (long ago not ours, according to the late Pole's version) "top" bureaucrats and the so-called ... the most "efficient" managers with more cruiser yachts and palaces at the cost of a small town. Yes, and a technical question, how, at such a wavelength, the issue of noise immunity and technological dimensions of microwave equipment will be resolved, well, maintainability and the level of combat resistance and reliability, etc., not to mention the preparation of l / s.
      1. 0
        13 September 2019 15: 01
        . and are we able to produce in sufficient quantities on stream,

        I only have a question for that. What are sufficient? How many aircraft do we have? How many of these devices do we need?
    30. 0
      13 September 2019 14: 55
      wassat and then cartoons, cartoons ... request
      Here you
      1. -2
        13 September 2019 17: 41
        Quote: igorbrsv
        wassat and then cartoons, cartoons ... request
        Here you

        what is that? A picture from the promising ones? I can believe in this confusion when the serial production of "simple" AFAR, which "partners" is already installing on corn farmers, will be launched!
        1. 0
          14 September 2019 01: 02
          What kind of Corn Workers did you come up with with AFARs?
        2. 0
          14 September 2019 08: 50
          I also read about this afar. It differs from Pfars only in that it can focus several rays. Only the range falls. Long range is not an assistant. And the efficiency is much lower
    31. 0
      13 September 2019 22: 59
      So he, this new 3D-type radar of a new type was put on the Su-47, but he didn’t go, either that he couldn’t work during the day, or at night - I don’t remember exactly.
      1. 0
        14 September 2019 01: 02
        It was generally another radar.
    32. -1
      14 September 2019 07: 37
      And I can develop anything and then scream about it on every corner ...
      But between the words "develop" and "implement" there is a difference in cosmic size.
      I know this "Skolkovo" ... they also developed a lot of things, it's a pity that in the end there are only continuous losses.
      1. 0
        14 September 2019 08: 54
        Bought outdated technology. They go along the path beaten by someone, that’s not paying off. For several years they will not catch up. And over time, who knows request
    33. +1
      14 September 2019 11: 16
      Oh, how does it bake at the all-propellers ..... already happy :)
    34. 0
      14 September 2019 13: 34
      Quote: Mestny
      In the 50-ies it was very lucky, we managed to get some technologies from the Germans. And these technologies themselves were much simpler.

      So take it now, a full bag, albeit not the newest, but the second-hand will give away cheap. It will be just for you, and that, because it was not. Luck or not? WANTING. Desire is needed. How did Comrade Count Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov-Rymniksky say? "One luck, two luck ... My God, you need skill!"
    35. -2
      14 September 2019 13: 56
      Quote: seacap
      Several questions immediately arise, on the solution of which it will depend on whether it will become a real model or will remain a theory about which the teachers will tell the cadets when listing theoretically possible options, as it is historically traditionally with us. To begin with, the element base, and whether we are able to produce on-line in sufficient quantities, given the fact that the latest factories and technologies we are rapidly bankrupt and destroy entire industries, and our dealers - "effective" managers successfully melt technologies abroad. An important question in the same row, especially taking into account the intentions of our mediocre, but very active bureaucrats, imitating violent activity (otherwise they will be kicked out of the trough), and even living in a parallel, virtual reality, with difficulty understanding and in which country, to destroy vocational education. And judging by the fact that not a single aircraft engine has been created in 30 years, the problem with bringing ready-made and still Soviet developments is no longer able to even create a "cornfield" or piston sports aircraft, then with queen, yakovlev and tupolev with Ilyushins we have clearly "stress", somehow it does not come from "advanced" users, who can hardly speak their native language, who consider Buzova and House 2 to be the pinnacle of art on them and educated, Kalashnikovs, Bunkins and other great creative people of our once mighty state. In power there are still those who betrayed and destroyed the greatest power, for the sake of their own selfish and philistine desires, organized the robbery of their own homeland, unprecedented in the history of mankind, who consider the moral and material, spiritual values ​​of a hostile power to be their ideal. They are not capable of creation and creativity, and tb. the estate society built by them and with a semi-colonial economy does not allow the development of science and education, but only implies making a profit. I am almost sure that these developments and technologies, together with the leading engineers, will soon be sold to our "partners", like everything that the greedy hands of our (long ago not ours, according to the late Pole's version) "top" bureaucrats and the so-called ... the most "efficient" managers with more cruiser yachts and palaces at the cost of a small town. Yes, and a technical question, how, at such a wavelength, the issue of noise immunity and technological dimensions of microwave equipment will be resolved, well, maintainability and the level of combat resistance and reliability, etc., not to mention the preparation of l / s.

      I agree with some points.
      However, I see a categorical error regarding the release / non-release of the element base. How can we not throw to hell with what we stuffed our televisions, tape recorders, and the rest, including military electronics? The release of this trash was protected by the borders of the USSR. Nothing was allowed on the domestic market. Japanese TV in the 80s in Siberia, in our mining, "Black Pearl of Kuzbass" could be bought only by the greatest pull. At the level of the first-second secretary of the Regional Party Committee.
      The magazine "Radio", which subscribed to by all sorts of fraudulent means (the limit, at the SKB of the plant, 160 people received a distribution order in TWO issues), wrote that, they say, how to compete if we (the Radio Industry) had 30 names of microcircuits for television and radio equipment, and at " there were already more than 3 thousand of them.
      And so it was. Yes, if the factories of the Radio Electronics Industry had an ACCEPTABLE profit of 25%, were they interested in developing, competing, and running forward when the PLANNED system gave everything that only the soul wanted, write only an impressive justification. NOT EARNED, but RECEIVED. And, over 80 years, they have come to such a lag that there is nowhere else to go. And now- BORDERS ARE NOT DONE. Poured cheap, high-quality and beautifully designed .....
      1. +1
        14 September 2019 14: 09
        Quote: Vkd dvk
        The release of this trash was protected by the borders of the USSR. Nothing was allowed on the domestic market. Japanese TV in the 80s in Siberia, in our mining, "Black Pearl of Kuzbass" could be bought only by the greatest pull. At the level of the first-second secretary of the Regional Party Committee.

        Here is a nonsense.
        Quote: Vkd dvk
        The magazine "Radio", which was subscribed by all sorts of fraudulent ways

        Quietly wrote out.
        Quote: Vkd dvk
        And, over 80 years, they have come to such a lag that there is nowhere else to go. And now- BORDERS ARE NOT DONE. Poured cheap, high-quality and beautifully designed .....

        Aries.
    36. +2
      14 September 2019 16: 05
      Quote: mordvin xnumx
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      The release of this trash was protected by the borders of the USSR. Nothing was allowed on the domestic market. Japanese TV in the 80s in Siberia, in our mining, "Black Pearl of Kuzbass" could be bought only by the greatest pull. At the level of the first-second secretary of the Regional Party Committee.

      Here is a nonsense.
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      The magazine "Radio", which was subscribed by all sorts of fraudulent ways

      Quietly wrote out.
      Quote: Vkd dvk
      And, over 80 years, they have come to such a lag that there is nowhere else to go. And now- BORDERS ARE NOT DONE. Poured cheap, high-quality and beautifully designed .....

      Aries.

      If you subscribed to Radio, freely, it means that it is very green, even now. The mother wrote it out, she was allowed in the accounting department of the garment factory. The order had to be taken away, so they gave it. Then the opportunity ended there. Through the radio club. But with a load. "Soviet patriot", a rag that he threw away without reading.

      Aries. Have you seen THIS? for the PRESENT you did not have the dough to buy. You had the opportunity to see. 1981 year.

      So the shuttles carried only what you could earn.
      Prices are in SEK. Course THEN- 1/7. But the exchange of rubles, and not those that went in the country. And here it was necessary to multiply by 10. So you can manage to multiply those numbers by 70, or will you help?
    37. +2
      14 September 2019 16: 35
      To receive a REAL and not PSEUDO three-dimensional radar image using a radar, it is necessary that the wavelength of the radar be ten times smaller than the size of air targets. A lot of scientific papers have been written about this. Those. the radar should operate in mm wavelength range. But the problem with mm waves is that they decay extremely quickly in the atmosphere and the range of mm radars does not exceed several kilometers. In space, such radars can really provide three-dimensional images of detected objects, and such radars have long been used on spacecraft. But then again, where volumetric images are needed.
    38. 0
      14 September 2019 17: 10
      Quote: Nikolay87
      Now effective managers will calculate everything and .... nothing will happen laughing

      laughing laughing Are you one of them?
    39. 0
      16 September 2019 04: 56
      For a long time there are alternative methods of location, with smaller dimensions and costs ...
    40. 0
      13 January 2021 14: 49
      "may get a new type of radar" - again news on future success ...

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