The dates for the construction of the first Russian helicopter carriers

Information that Russia is preparing to begin construction of its own universal landing ships (UDC helicopter carriers) has found confirmation. Recall that Moscow previously planned to buy such ships for the Russian Navy from the French, but, as you know, the decision of the then French president Hollande prevented against the background of anti-Russian sanctions. As a result, the Mistral helicopter carriers bought Egypt.

At the construction of the helicopter carrier Sevastopol, which eventually ended up in the Egyptian Navy

News agency TASS referring to sources in the industry (specific sources are not named) reports that the UDC will be laid as early as next year. Construction will be carried out in the Crimea - at the Zaliv shipyard. The lead helicopter carrier is planned to be delivered the fleet until the end of 2027 - as part of the current state program for the rearmament and modernization of the army and navy. They plan to complete the serial UDC by 2030.

It is noted that the laying ceremony of two Russian universal landing ships will be held in May 2020.

What is known about the characteristics of future ships for the Russian Navy?

TASS information sources note that the displacement of each will not exceed 15-thousand tons. The number of helicopters of various classes that ships will be able to take on board is 10 units. Ships will be built with docking chambers for landing boats.

It is added that the technical project is in the final stages of development and they plan to sign a contract in the near future.

If this kind of construction begins, then this will be the first case of the creation of UDC in Russia.

Comments

[KVU-NSVD]

good news. Does the Zaliv have the capacity to build two ships at once, 15 thousand tons each?

[RussianUzbek]

According to the state defense order, they will have to hold tenders and if they say "Zaliv" then they are ready. There is still paperwork before the bookmark ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: RussianUzbek

There paperwork to bookmark more ....

Paperwork has already been completed at 95%, and it is correct that it will be built in Crimea and most likely will go to the Black Sea Fleet - after all, the Black Sea Fleet is the main artery with Tartus. In addition, they will be thoroughly run in .... the question is only about turbines and weapons, most likely only air defense and PLO + maybe art, an open question on turbines .... they aren’t enough for the Gorshkov series ... ..will we wait on the coffee grounds?)))

[RussianUzbek]

Think paperwork is solely in CD?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: RussianUzbek

Think paperwork is solely in CD?

no, I don’t think so, but what exactly do you think when you say that there is still a lot of paper work? Do you know which project is in production? or are you directly related to design bureau? I have a friend, he deals with this very topic ... ...

[RussianUzbek]

I work in the GOZ system and imagine what it is to participate in tenders ... Well, and not only.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: RussianUzbek

system GOZ and imagine what it is to bid.

it is clear, but since everything has already been decided specifically (plant-project-contractors), then I think the tender has already been "resolved"

[Zhan]

Quote: RussianUzbek

Think paperwork is solely in CD?

Of course not ! So for this, there is executive documentation already at the construction stage. What would then UDC-M build. As usual, theory and practice, two moody girls ..

[The black]

Strange throwings of MO - necessary, not necessary, oops - again necessary.

[Marconi41]

Quote: Black

Strange throwings of MO - necessary, not necessary, oops - again necessary.

Yes, it was always necessary! But when it doesn’t work out, they say that they didn’t really want to. On this subject, we are even inferior to Brazil. If only not another Gren laid.

[Artemiy_2]

It is unlikely that they will be at the Black Sea Fleet. Most likely they will leave for the Pacific Fleet. After all, the Mistals originally planned there

[Marconi41]

Quote: Artemiy_2

It is unlikely that they will be at the Black Sea Fleet. Most likely they will leave for the Pacific Fleet. After all, the Mistals originally planned there

They can be divided in half. That would be even better.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Artemiy_2

It is unlikely that they will be at the Black Sea Fleet.

why do you think so?

Quote: Artemiy_2

Most likely they will leave for the Pacific Fleet.

why did you come to this conclusion?

[Artemiy_2]

Because the Mistrals were planned for the Pacific Ocean

[Alexandra]

Turbines are not needed for a recreation center with a displacement of 15 thousand tons.

[Mityay65]

no turbines needed.

Yes, a diesel would look ... Or a diesel electric ship ...
Or gas piston ..
We need a modern power plant, more for these "battle ferries" there is a fashion (probably before the first war, where they will reveal their potential) and they will need to be sold ...

[svp67]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

Does the Zaliv have the capacity to build two ships at once, 15 thousand tons each?

In any case, it has the largest dock, on the Black Sea coast, and there is nothing else here, of this size, yet. Here are just 15 is not enough. Or it will be experienced ships, and according to their results of operation, already a series of something more powerful will go. And of course I would like for VTOL to be developed for him

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: svp67

Here are just 15 is not enough.

I personally have a feeling that they are moving towards the formation of aircraft carriers in the USSR — remember Moscow first, and then .. So here is Gren, modified enlarged descendants, and now there are helicopter carriers of 15 thousand each. Although I do not insist on my innocence - it just happened in my head to generalize.

[New Year day]

Quote: svp67

it has the largest dock on the Black Sea coast and other we have there

maybe the shipyard of Kerch will become a substitute for the shipyards of Nikolaev

[Igor V]

Quote: svp67

Anyway, it has the largest dock

As long as the slipway is needed, the dock will be subsequently.

[NEOZ]

Quote: svp67

And of course I would like for VTOL to be developed for him

spend so much resources for 20 cars with trimmed characteristics?

[alexmach]

Here are just 15 is not enough.

Is our answer "Izumo"?

[Alexandra]

About 15 thousand tons of displacement fit approximately this DVKD:

VTOL aircraft on a recreation center with a displacement of 15 thousand tons are not placed.

[Gardamir]

good news

To promise is not to marry. That way.
https://topwar.ru/162297-tak-poletim-ili-proletim.html

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Gardamir

To promise is not to marry. That way.

Didn’t I expect another from you, Gardamir?

[Gardamir]

and did not expect another?

Does the case have anything to say? Or didn’t you leave kindergarten age?
Such articles go by a jamb. Soon ... So tell us about these really coming soon. Anticipating your message, I’ll say that you are the agent of the State Department, making you rejoice at what is not in nature

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Gardamir

Anticipating your message, I’ll say that you are the agent of the State Department, making you rejoice at what is not in nature

Turn on logic - If I rejoice at things that do not exist, then you also predict the failure of exactly the same things that do not exist. So why the viciousness and controversy? time will put everything in its place. Wish you hello

[NEOZ]

Quote: Gardamir

State Department agent, forcing to rejoice at what is not in nature

it is a disguise of true intentions.

[Civil]

It is immediately necessary to build an ice class for the NORTHERN seas. We have almost no others. And it is useless to have two such barges in the Black Sea. Immediately with a heated deck, closed lifts, improved seaworthiness.

[The Little Humpbacked Horse]

Quote: Civil

It is immediately necessary to build an ice class for the NORTHERN seas. We have almost no others. And it is useless to have two such barges in the Black Sea. Directly with heated deck

To warm the deck you need a nuclear reactor, because the power of the ship's boiler is not always enough even to warm the tanks on tankers

[cormorant]

Where are you going to land in the North Seas? Will we capture Norway? BDK there is enough for the eyes. "5th Mediterranean squadron" needs to be restored

[NEOZ]

Quote: Civil

for the NORTHERN SEAS. We have almost no others.

are you going to land on your coast?
or will the landing be advanced from the northern seas?

[Edward Vashchenko]

Very good news, from the point of view of a reasonable approach in shipbuilding, after all, the Gulf - from the point of view of "iron" was building a super-tanker.
In addition, with the loss of Nikolaev in Russia, the only normal place remained, the fleet still needs to be built in the south, St. Petersburg capacities are much inferior in terms of area and climatic conditions.
But there are questions regarding the capacities, and not only from the point of view of the stocks, I think you can lay down two at once - the area allows, but the qualification of the entire infrastructure requires a major upgrade.
From personnel to equipment. Now there is compensation due to shipbuilders from other factories in Russia.
The Gulf did not build warships of this scale, a supertanker, an atomic lighter carrier - yes. Warriors - only patrol boats, such as the flagship of the unremarkable, with the name "frigate" Sagaidachny, in fact - a patrol ship for the PW of the KGB of the USSR.
I repeat, it is more difficult with infrastructure, in Soviet times, in Kerch, if there were not enough specialists in the Gulf, for example, high-class turners, orders were placed at Ship repair yards, now there is nowhere to place them - all production is in ruins, and experts, if left, is it harmful? to the machines will.
To understand - a gigantic production - the turners work on the CNC, and when it is necessary to release complex single parts, their level is not sufficient, the CNC will not pull, something like that.
Generally, a lot of questions, but the news is encouraging.
What I don’t like — eternal announcements — but where is secrecy ?, let’s let us go to the water - and Hurray!

[KCA]

Did you see if the "Northern Sea Route" was really built in Kerch as soon as the Turks released it from the Black Sea, or were they dragging the completion to St. Petersburg or Murmansk without YSU?

[Avior]

YaSU in no way affects the passage of the straits, the convention was adopted in 1936

[New Year day]

Quote: Avior

YaSU in no way affects the passage of the straits, the convention was adopted in 1936

when supertankers were built, their sizes were chosen specifically so that the ship could pass through the Bosphorus and Dardanelles.

[Avior]

if this problem existed, it was not because of Yasu or convention. There are no restrictions on these criteria

[KCA]

In addition to the Montreux Convention, there are also sanitary standards in Turkey, which prohibit passage of straits to ships and ships with nuclear fuel, as well as the presence of nuclear fuel or waste on board, and there are also a lot of restrictions, no longer with non-nuclear fuel, such as oil or gas carriers

[Avior]

no sanitary norms of Turkey, except generally accepted, can not contradict the conventions and limit them more than in the convention, they can- it has a status higher than any domestic laws.

[NEOZ]

Quote: Avior

than in the convention, they cannot, it has a status higher than any internal laws.

fact! otherwise, the Turks can say that any vessel with a toilet harms the ecology of Turkey!

[Alf]

Quote: Avior

YaSU in no way affects the passage of the straits, the convention was adopted in 1936

Logically, in 1936, nuclear weapons systems did not even exist in theory. Not prohibited, then allowed.

[Edward Vashchenko]

"Sevmorput" was without YSU, it was installed in St. Petersburg, then there was a big scandal, the Turks - "our partners" in life, were very indignant, perestroika began, so they went this way: "iron" in Kerch, power - in Leningrad.

[KCA]

Well, as I expected, in tow they dragged to Peter

[Mityay65]

iron "in Kerch, power - in Leningrad

Could you clarify about "power - in Leningrad". As far as I know, all the work was done in Kerch, including on the power plant.
And along the passage of the straits, the infa from the Internet (including Vicki) is such that on the Odessa-Vietnam line "Sevmorput" made flights as a container ship.

[Edward Vashchenko]

Good evening Dmitry,
this information is from memory.

There was a scandal - perestroika was in full swing, but now I also checked - there is no information on the internet. Maybe then our ignored the scandal, but, I repeat what I remember.
Indeed: walked from Odessa through the straits.
Maybe I was wrong, then I apologize.

[AlexVas44]

"Zaliv" has the ability to build ships up to 300m long and up to 50m wide, which makes it possible to build ships with a displacement of more than 150 thousand tons. (information from RIA Novosti)

[KVU-NSVD]

The competencies necessary for the construction of ships include not only appropriate, appropriate sizes of places for construction, but also workers of the appropriate qualifications, engineering and technical staff of relevant experience, a fleet of relevant characteristics, experience in building ships of the corresponding destination, commercial and production chains of the corresponding assortment, and so on. That's what my question was about, and not about the presence of docks and stocks - it’s clear that this is something.

[Edward Vashchenko]

There are questions in this, but he wrote about the problems above, many to solve for a long time, it is clear that the equipment on the Gulf of the late USSR, that did not pull apart during the non-land, etc.
If I’m not mistaken in picking something, then now there is some kind of self-propelled drift on the stocks.
The specialists came from Russia, the level of engineering and technology was probably almost nonexistent, a distant relative in Ukraine left to work at Turkish factories, now he is trying to return, but as usual: salary issues, etc.
Often people who manage our defense industry are far from management.
There are some kind of journalists. There would be no trouble if they tried to figure out the profession, listened to the pros, and not PR.
Everything can be corrected - it takes time and the willpower of the leadership.

[Mityay65]

up to 300m long and up to 50m wide

Interestingly, the dimensions of the passage under the Kerch bridge will not be an obstacle for ships of this size?

[AAK]

Under the USSR, Zaliv built ships up to rank 1 BOD (projects 1134a / b, 1135) inclusive, as well as tankers up to 150 tons (like Mir, Pobeda), some of the capacities still remained, although the equipment is far from new. By 000, a railway connection will open across the bridge, so that it will already be possible to carry metal onto the hulls, as well as engines, equipment, etc.

[KCA]

I think that in case of great need, anything will be transported across the bridge now, one branch has been working for a long time, though in the technical mode, but it works

[Vol4ara]

Eeee easier to take it easier ... And where is the traditional howl that rises when touching the topic of the mistral and udk in general, that we are not going to fight with anyone and we have nowhere to land, we are not Omerika

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Vol4ara

Eeee easier to take it easier ... And where is the traditional howl that rises when touching the topic of the mistral and udk in general, that we are not going to fight with anyone and we have nowhere to land, we are not Omerika

So after all, we are talking about our UDC - they are correct, peaceful, and generally consist of human-loving mollecules.
We have clear reasons.
We have heroic scouts
They have damned spies ..

[Kaetani]

Cool and beautiful answer)))

[New Year day]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

Does the Zaliv have the capacity to build two ships at once, 15 thousand tons each?

I don’t know now, but under the Soviet Union, in 1974, I built the super tanker “Crimea”:
The length of the tanker is 295 m, the width is 45 m, the side height is 25,4 m, the draft is 17 m,
displacement - 180 thousand tons, deadweight - 150 500 tons,
carrying capacity - 143 t,
Then the Kavkaz, Kuban, and Kuzbass supertankers were built. A little later the next giant tanker Kryvbass went to sea trials.

[Sayan]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

good news. Does the Zaliv have the capacity to build two ships at once, 15 thousand tons each?

That’s enough power, but there are problems with specialists - it’s just not enough

[Piramidon]

Quote: Sayan

That’s enough power, but there are problems with specialists - it’s just not enough

Specialists will be trained. As long as it comes to building the UDC, you can not only graduate from vocational schools, but also get a couple of higher educations.

[alexmach]

Specialists will be trained

1. Who will teach?
2. Where will they train, vocational schools still remain?
3. Who will be trained? Who will go to study there?

[Piramidon]

Quote: alexmach

Specialists will be trained

1. Who will teach?
2. Where will they train, vocational schools still remain?
3. Who will be trained? Who will go to study there?

In our city, vocational schools are still preserved, although they are called colleges. And people go to study there and, naturally, there are those who teach them.

[alexmach]

And what do these colleges teach? Are trainers and welders or economists and accountants trained?

[Piramidon]

My friend’s granddaughter is studying as a seamstress or cutter.

[PROXOR]

The question is different. What project will go into construction? It is a pity that these UDCs are small. Mistrals reach the full 30000t.

[Alexandra]

"Mistral" - DVKD with a total displacement of less than 23 thousand tons.

[PROXOR]

I'm talking about curb displacement.

[Alexandra]

The ultimate (and not "equipped" or "full") displacement is 32300 tons with water-filled ballast tanks and a docking chamber.

[evgen1221]

The news is good, but I would like to hear it un-announced, and it will be built sometime, but it will be built, put into operation and so on from this series. The perception of the state is somehow higher in the second case.

[Mountain shooter]

Wow scale. Yes, and in the Crimea. Well, I would like to get a couple of these, not small ones. Helicopters to be found. Is that why they started talking about vertical take-off aircraft? For them, basing on such ships is quite ...

[AAK]

Indeed, colleague, the topic of the Yak-141 and its possible modernization has clearly revived recently on Internet resources

[KCA]

So it has revived on the Internet, and if the topic comes to life in the form of OCD, we will know in 10 years, and that’s not all

[Edward Vashchenko]

Wow scale. Yes, and in the Crimea.

And what is surprising, the Gulf can do it, built a supertanker, would not have failed a complex infrastructure (management, engineering, professionalism and management).

[PROXOR]

A few months later they will launch a railway message with CRIMEA. So the logistics problem will be solved. The question is in the contractors.

[PROXOR]

15000 for aircraft, albeit with a vertical, is still a little small. Need a ship twice as heavy.

[Fedor Sokolov]

But is there a need for them? Combat capabilities are very modest with gigantic proportions, the cost of construction and further operation is very high. It would be more efficient to spend budget money on the revival and production of heavy combat and military transport ekranoplanes.

[armata_armata]

It would be more efficient to spend budget money on the revival and production of heavy combat and military transport ekranoplanes

Only communication boats are more effective than this idea)) An ecplane that lives up to the first air-to-air missile flying into it is what you need

[abc_alex]

Quote: armata_armata

The eco-plane that lives up to the first air-to-air missile flying into it is what you need.

And this one lives until the first RCC, much better? It's a barge ...

[armata_armata]

And this one lives until the first RCC, much better? It's a barge ...

The barge has anti-aircraft defense which is able to bring down one anti-ship missile; the ecological plan has nothing

[abc_alex]

Specifically "Lunya", yes, there is nothing. Well, except for the flight mode, which is extremely inconvenient for location. But what prevents the installation of electronic warfare equipment, a powerful aircraft-type radar and self-defense equipment on the new device? Two anchors were dragged to Lunya with winches and chains - they did not fall apart. On the new device, instead of this "happiness", install a light-class air defense system such as Thor or Pantsir in a special design.

A simple, really strange project is being proposed ... 10 helicopters in total ... And the dimensions are not large ... It is unlikely that there will be serious air defense ....

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

But what prevents the installation of electronic warfare equipment, a powerful aircraft-type radar and self-defense equipment on the new device? Two anchors were dragged to Lunya with winches and chains - they did not fall apart. On the new device, instead of this "happiness", install a light-class air defense system such as Thor or Pantsir in a special design.

It interferes with the fact that the ekranoplan is not rubber. He still needs to take off with all this.
And then, what kind of air defense should it be in order to fight off a supersonic missile diving at an ekranoplan with a combined GOS (active / passive) with a range of 100 km? This is not fantasy, but the ancient AIM-54, which, PMSM, is ideal for defeating ekranoplanes. Moreover, they did it based on the defeat of much smaller and faster targets - large Soviet anti-ship missiles and their carrier aircraft. And not a subsonic low-maneuverable target the size of RTOs.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: armata_armata

And this one lives until the first RCC, much better? It's a barge ...

The barge has anti-aircraft defense which is able to bring down one anti-ship missile; the ecological plan has nothing

And what kind of air defense does the Hercules or the A.400M have?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avis-bis

And what kind of air defense does the Hercules or the A.400M have?

And they are carriers of anti-ship missiles and operate in the area of ​​operation of enemy aircraft?

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Alexey RA

Quote: Avis-bis

And what kind of air defense does the Hercules or the A.400M have?

And they are carriers of RCC

What does it have to do with it? The participant wrote about transport EPLs. But the shock version with RCC also changes little.

operate in the area of ​​enemy aviation?

Yes. Do you have a different vision of their work? Do you think that military-technical cooperation is flying only in conditions of absolute superiority in the air of its air forces? Well, so, you are mistaken.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avis-bis

What does it have to do with it? The participant wrote about transport EPLs.

We read carefully:

Quote: Fyodor Sokolov

It would be more efficient to spend budget money on revival and production heavy combat and military transport ekranoplanes.

Quote: Avis-bis

Yes. Do you have a different vision of their work? Do you think that military-technical cooperation is flying only in conditions of absolute superiority in the air of its air forces?

In my vision of a military-technical cooperation, transport planes do not attack the ship's warrant.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Alexey RA

We read carefully:

That's it.

In my vision of a military-technical cooperation, transport planes do not attack the ship's warrant.

My posting concerned only transport EPLs. Percussion - are discussed. But you are definitely not an expert on them. It so happened, humble yourself.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avis-bis

My posting concerned only transport EPLs. Percussion - are discussed.

And for transport ekranoplanes you need to have a fleet and aviation. Otherwise, it is dangerous to release them further 300 km from the base.

Quote: Avis-bis

But you are definitely not an expert on them. It so happened, humble yourself.

Why the Internet is good, you can always find an expert on experts who makes a diagnosis by profile picture.

[Avis-bis]

Quote: Alexey RA

diagnosis

"The cap is on the thief." Nobody diagnosed you, but you yourself admitted that you have problems.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Fyodor Sokolov

It would be more efficient to spend budget money on the revival and production of heavy combat and military transport ekranoplanes

and how is it more efficient? where to apply them? name specifically?

[abc_alex]

Not "where" but "when". When it is necessary to maneuver the naval weapons or amphibious assault forces on the coast that is not suitable for landing by conventional means. Toltko, of course, is an ekranolet.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: abc_alex

where "a" when "

exactly where !! and how? in the Caspian?

[abc_alex]

I don’t understand you ... Where? Wherever there is a water surface or a flat land surface.
How? For strike versions, as well as missile boats, for landing ones as well as helicopters or convertiplanes ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: abc_alex

Where? Wherever there is a water surface

do you know the conditions of use? at what excitement is takeoff and landing possible? and the fact that knocking it down does not seem difficult at all .. the branch for shock capabilities is completely unpromising, but for the citizen it’s possible to buzz!

[abc_alex]

Quote: Tiksi-3

do you know the conditions of use? at what excitement is takeoff and landing possible? and the fact that knocking it down does not seem difficult at all .. the branch for shock capabilities is completely unpromising, but for the citizen it’s possible to buzz!

And again, as if from a clean slate ... Takeoff and landing of the ekranolet are possible under the same conditions as in an airplane or a seaplane.
With the modern development of missile weapons, you can "shoot down" anything, you just need to pick up the appropriate missile.
For strike purposes, it will be extremely useful to have a highly mobile, unobtrusive "ship-caliber" anti-ship missile carrier capable of quickly posing a threat to the same AUG from an unprotected azimuth ...

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

or landing on coasts not suitable for landing by conventional means

Disposable WIG?
For for a landing from an ekranoplan with the possibility of re-using this ekranoplan, the conditions on the coast should be the same as for the BDK. Otherwise, he simply will not take off from the landing site, and the landing force will be beaten during landing.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Alexey RA

For for a landing from an ekranoplan with the possibility of re-using this ekranoplan, the conditions on the coast should be the same as for the BDK. Otherwise, he simply will not take off from the landing site, and the landing force will be beaten during landing.

And again, as if from scratch ... - 2.
Was the A-50 "Eaglet" disposable? There are no restrictions on the coast at all for the ekranolet, it can detach from the screen and fly like an airplane. It is clear that the airplane mode was only tested on the "Orlyonok", but this does not mean that the ekrano flight cannot take off from land. For this, modern projects of heavy ekranoplane - biplanes, they have a complex wing that combines a classic airplane and ekronoplane wing.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

Was the A-50 "Eaglet" disposable?

"Eaglet" with a landing was to land on the water and then slowly crawl out to the beach.

Quote: abc_alex

There are no coastal restrictions for the ekranoleta, it can take off the screen and fly in an airplane.

Can. But for landing he needs to sit down.
Or water and drive to the shore - which means that you need a beach, as for the BDK.
Or on land - but there you need a prepared strip. For otherwise, the landing of a 140-ton car with a pair of ten-wheeled chassis flying at a speed of about 200 km / h will end in disaster.
And if there is such a strip, then the same IL-76 or An-124 can be planted on it.

[abc_alex]

Quote: Alexey RA

"Eaglet" with a landing was to land on the water and then slowly crawl out to the beach.

When the front engines were blown under the wing, the "Orlyonok" went to the beach on an "air cushion. It is a pity that the tests of the structure were interrupted, but purely theoretically, when the main and auxiliary control systems work together, the Alekseevskiy ekranolayet can reduce the speed before landing to very low values, in fact, sit down like a helicopter.

Quote: Alexey RA

And if there is such a strip, then the same IL-76 or An-124 can be planted on it.

It is possible, but you will not force the IL-76 or An-124 to fly 500-600 km three meters above the ground.

[g1washntwn]

The highways were even larger, 21,3 thousand tons against the expected 15 of ours. Helicopters are 20 to 10. Landing boats are also likely to be 2 times smaller, that is - 2. That is, for local showdowns and transport equipment for rotation at remote points is enough. The ekranoplanes are interesting, but there are their drawbacks, for example - not only in terms of seaworthiness, but also problems with passage of straits, etc., etc.

[abc_alex]

Quote: g1washntwn

The ekranoplanes are interesting, but there are their drawbacks, for example - not only in terms of seaworthiness, but also problems with passage of straits, etc., etc.

Therefore, we can only speak seriously about ekranolets - machines that also have a "classical airplane" flight mode.

[Alexandra]

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems MHD-150 Project:

Deck for simultaneous take-off of up to four heavy EH.101 helicopters and two medium-sized NH90 helicopters. The hangar accommodates 9 medium-sized HN90 helicopters. LCU Mk.10 or LCAC landing craft docking dock + two LCM landing craft on sloop-beams.

[g1washntwn]

Quote: AlexanderA

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems Project MHD-150

Yes. This project is our classmate.

Quote: https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/mhd.htm

The MHD-150 has a displacement of ton, 182m in length, overall width 26.5M, draws 6m, with 776 troops carried on the ship, power system for the diesel engine, dual-shaft, and the maximum speed 22 knots, range of 8,000 nautical miles when the speed of 15 knots ... It has a transverse auxiliary propulsion in the bow, and stern transverse stability can be maintained when the docking point for loading and unloading operation. The MHD-150 has a flight deck 126m long, with the ship's island on the ship's starboard, a large hangar is at full length below the flight deck, with elevator capacity 25 tons to conveying helicopters. In addition, the ship's stern also has a full length flight deck below the level of the main helicopter deck, from which helicopters can by move directly. This lower take off and landing deck can also be used to place large containers.

[martin-159]

Probably nice and easy to write about what will happen in ten years.

[Mavrikiy]

The dates for the construction of the first Russian helicopter carriers

Shaw, again?
Only the site abandoned the Mistral.
A couple is needed, for the Mediterranean, "it's warm there, there are apples." For the Pacific Fleet, too, will have to be built, Stalin did not squeeze Hokaido from Truman, now it will have to be redone Then Yapam will not be up to the Kuril Islands.

[Lord of the Sith]

Those documentation is there, equipment too, it remains to build, in a good way!

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, now it's necessary to come up with the names "in spite" of "Mistrals"! It is a pity that such names as "Bora", "Barguzin" will have to be held back ... they, if my memory serves me right, have already been used ... But why "Sarma" is not suitable? Quite a fitting name!

[AlexVas44]

The names can be left as planned - "Sevastopol" and "Vladivostok". And if in defiance, then it is possible so - "Paris Commune".

[Captain45]

Quote: AlexVas44

And if in defiance, then it is possible so - "Paris Commune".

She, if we are against it - "Francois" and "Emanuel" (Hollande with Macron)

[rocket757]

There was a lot of controversy ... if you NEED, you have to do ..... just not for what it was!

[donavi49]

Well, Duc is a universal ship - which the fleets of all countries of the world want to have. And they have. Even all sorts of Singapore and Peru have already acquired.

Frigate destroyers, and especially submarines, are quite situational means. Which are more involved in ensuring passive safety (scary attack) and is rather limited in conflicts.

DKVD / UDC - it takes out any war far from its native border. It provides a bunch of peaceful applications, from the headquarters of the rescue operation in the disaster area (earthquake / tsunami / volcano / war, etc.) and the evacuation of the population in the conditions of complete destruction of all infrastructure or the inability to use it, to show the flag, active participation in international (especially with all kinds of friends and doubters) teachings.

[rocket757]

Do we have many long-range operations? How does this fit into our defense concept?
That is to guard the borders, and we have them very, very long and not everywhere there is at least some kind of population, not to mention the troops. The only question is, who will dare to encroach on those very sparsely populated, not very guarded lines ???
PS .... The Far East, the Kuril Islands, islands ..... this is the topic, here they are useful for anyone.

[donavi49]

Well, here is Syria. I had to pull together all the Navy’s BDKs during the peak months of transportation (and these months stretched for more than a year when there was a live BNK on the Northern Fleet, and the rest on the 1-1 BDK Pacific Fleet — either under repair or on the Novorossiysk-Tartus line). If the shoulder were a little further, then the existing landing forces would not have taken out. And this is also taking into account air traffic.

You forget one very important thing:
- air transportation is easy to interrupt, by a simple decision, and by a decision of a sovereign state, within the framework of recognized rules, including those observed by Russia. That is, the flight of the BTA = it is necessary permission from all states in the airspace which is flying. If, say, Iraq did not crumble, and there would be a pro-American administration holding the country in its fist = then there would be no air bridge. For geography or Iraq, or Turkey, or Bulgaria-Greece. Or teleport.

- only ships can go anywhere in the world, hiding behind the freedom of navigation. And no one can stop them. Yes, you may have to make hooks by adding a day's journey, but this is possible and no one has the right to interfere. For those recognized by all (including the United States) rules.

And yet, long-distance operations = this is from capabilities. You can continue to go to Indra on the crumbling Polish BDK and postpone the exercises for 5-10 days, because you need to put yourself in order because of the storm. However, if a tool appears, you can conduct more active work away from your native coast. Look again at China. How many African colonies did they have in 90's = when there was no fleet? And how many African colonies now?

[rocket757]

Quote: donavi49

You forget one very important thing:

The topic was discussed and I wrote that FAST MILITARY TRANSPORT VESSELS are not luxury, but NECESSITY! Not even BDKs, which have their own specifics of application, are just specialized transport vessels.

Quote: donavi49

And yet, long-distance operations = this is from capabilities.

But this is not so obvious, because Russia does not have a colonial experience, and therefore the fleet was important for the defense of borders, insofar as it was a serious strike force in an attack somewhere.
In the current situation, when in the seas and oceans, we do not dominate at all, the colonial fleet, transports, are not needed in large numbers .... there is nothing for him to do somewhere or something without the support of the strike fleet. Syria, this is just an EPISODE !!! Having shown that the fleet could not do without ships of a certain type at all, but had no effect on the doctrine of our defense.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: donavi49

Well, here is Syria. I had to pull together all the Navy’s BDKs during the peak months of transportation (and these months lasted more than a year when there was 1 live BDK on the Northern Fleet, on the Pacific Fleet 1-2 BDK the rest were either under repair or on the Novorossiysk-Tartus line).

Just for Syria, the BDK were not needed. Their only advantages were the actual presence and flag of the Navy. Everything else for the port-to-port transportation was not necessary and even harmful - for it reduced cargo capacity (as well as the same design features for landing on an unequipped shore).
The use of the BDK on the Syrian route was a necessary measure due to the lack of the state's conventional rollerters, which could be mobilized and covered with the flag of the auxiliary fleet.

[Professor]

And how much ink was flown out for explanations "Why UDC of Russia is not needed at all"after the French refusal. Just like Fox and Grapes."

PS
2030 !!! well at least not 3020.

[srelock]

They really were not needed, especially the French, and now they are not needed. They will be needed only after the 30s

[donavi49]

Well, the pace is clearly not Chinese.

April-May of 2019 of the year - a mortgage was first noticed at the launching ceremony of 8 DKVD 071.

now

And this is a fool in 30 tons for a large group.

[Avior]

So there was an explanation of yesterday’s news that they will develop VTOL.

[donavi49]

Well, a little sense to develop VTOL? Well, a group will fit in, say 2 MSS + 6 transport + 2 VTOL instead of attack helicopters. AND? Do they win a lot? Or support?

The much larger (more than double the displacement and triple the air group) Juan Carlos carry 6-8 VTOL + 20 helicopters. There it is somehow justified.

Plus, again, VTOL = this is a priority to do a springboard. Although if you look at the market, then perhaps there is a niche:
- Turkey 1 Carlos already exists (this is 8 order machines) + they want to build another one but according to their project based on Carlos (if they guarantee VTOL, they will save the springboard).
- China here besides 3 Avov (by the time of the VTOL flight = there will already be 3 Ava and 4 on the way = this is China ), there will be 2 UDC of the 075 project, again, under the guarantee of the VTOL, they will jump the springboard. And in general, the capacity of 50-60 machines is easy.
- India they will have 2 Ava which is nice to dilute VTOL, especially the small head ex-Gorshkov. Also, by that time, a competition for the new UDC will be held - they have a crumbling American Austin with aft helicopter deck now, almost does not go to sea, because he is all. Especially if Pakistan - China will merge the old 071 (one of the first) after repair and modernization. Then Hindu pride will be hurt. Again, the main candidate Carlos = total 18-24 cars can be sold, however, already with competition in the form of F-35.
- Other countries are possible, especially if you cooperate with China to promote products in Africa.

Well, +/- 100 machines + 30-50 for yourself (however, inflate even before 100 cars). Perhaps already on such a volume, we can talk about leaving even at zero for the project and the normal price for the plane.

[Avior]

I think that in the near future UDC will acquire everything. Not so expensive. With the advent of VTOL, this is a different level of warfare.
And VTOL in the world will be in demand, not everyone can or will want to buy f-35.
And as for

Well, the group will fit, say 2 PSS + 6 transport + 2 VTOL aircraft instead of attack helicopters. AND? Do they win a lot? Or support?

even if the eight is stuck, it will be a more serious argument against any fleet without them.
And against the shore too. Against the States, of course, not an argument, but there are different shores.
And they can build more in size, or build a couple of others more.

[donavi49]

Well sounded TTX of the first UDC:
10 Helicopter Group.

We lay out:
2 MSS = Ka-27PS / M, because without them permission to fly will not be given.
4-6 transport and strike group = Ka-29, it depends on the number of take-off areas, that is, the magnitude of the 1 wave. For example, if 4 is a group of 4-6 machines.

remains 2-4 slots under OTHER cars = this is Ka-52K or your VTOL aircraft, or AWACS, or PLO.

Somewhat justified group of VTOL aircraft - 4 machines. Normal 6 for UDC. 6-10 for UDC = this is chic and the best level achieved only at the most expensive and heavy UDC.

[Avior]

Plus, again, VTOL = this is a priority to do a springboard. Although if you look at the market, then perhaps there is a niche:

A springboard is not necessary for VTOL. It is possible without it, so that it does not interfere with helicopters, if necessary.
as for the Avigroup, Invisible was not much more. 18 Harriers, 4 Sea King.
F-35, of course, more, but he also has the ability to a different level.

[donavi49]

Invisible is an Aircraft Carrier with the ability to take people but without landing facilities. A modern analogue of his Cavour for example. If he takes the equipment, then to the hangar or to the cargo deck (small). There is no docking camera. Apart from helicopters, there are no landing facilities.

A springboard is needed = because it allows:
a) Raise the take-off weight of the machine;
b) Save quite a lot of fuel on the take-off procedure.

Without it, you can, but then there will be less take-off weight and less radius.

[Avior]

There is a modern Korean Dokdo with a small displacement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dokdo-class_amphibious_assault_ship
They also plan to put f-35.
And about the springboard, I’m not sure that this is so expressed for VTOL.
Americans do without it.
At the extreme, it can fly almost vertically, the path length can be adjusted.
And, as they say, if I break it, subtract from my salary
[media = https: //youtu.be/jxuaMO05PX4]

[donavi49]

This is a very compromise ship. One solution - which allowed to squeeze everything = combined hangar-cargo deck. Roughly - they got rid of the whole level that the Chinese, Mistral and Juan Carlos have. That is - the elevator lowers directly onto the cargo deck. Therefore, an air group can only be stored on the flight deck or instead of military equipment. Peak values ​​for the air group indicate with a truncated composition of the marine corps.

[Avior]

And no one says that for each task you need to fully load the wing and the landing force.
The tasks are different.
But even the aircraft link will fundamentally change the capabilities of the UDC - from in-depth strikes to the task of isolating from the supply of reserves to the landing point - bridges, railroads, convoys on the march, and so on.

[alexmach]

This is a very compromise ship.

U - versatility?

[donavi49]

No - a compromise for the sake of fitting the ship into a clear budget and dimensional framework. If the budget had been unscrewed and 6-9k displacement allowed, they would have set the hangar level, they even have a project with a normal UDC a la Carlos / Mistral.

[Sally]

But it will allow you to work with greater combat load using a short take-off.) (Which is huge for an expeditionary ship +)
But again, there is no ready-made swvp and its characteristics.
ps 10 cars and such a displacement is about nothing, there is neither a reserve in case of loss of cars nor a place for fuel and for skok somewhere normal ammunition.

[Sally]

While all looms as they said. The ship is based on green. The same BDK but having a slightly larger air group (you have to start somewhere)).

[Artemiy_2]

Gren ship

Most likely this surf. Very suitable for performance characteristics

[Sally]

Dreams (. Breakdown of design 24000+

[Artemiy_2]

24000+

There are two surf options. From the Krylovsky center at 24 and from the Nevsky Design Bureau. From Nevsky just fits under 000 VI
Yes, and more realistic. Because the Krylovsky center is engaged in concepts and glues models

[Sally]

Project Number)
Seriously small (as from my couch) as for what (they want) from him can be cut during the construction process. Or again you get ala "aircraft-carrying cruiser Minsk" (.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avior

A springboard is not necessary for VTOL.

So instead of the VTOL aircraft, the long-term military aviation system has long been. Because VTOL aircraft are foremast defense aircraft.
The fleet does not need pure vertical takeoff and landing - because they lose in terms of load and radius. It is not for nothing that the same Yak-38 was tested already in 1979 for takeoff with a short mileage, and in 1983, combat pilots from Novorossiysk were already flying this way.

[Avior]

It doesn’t matter what is squvp.
Both of them are able to provide lifting force directly from the engine, compensating for its lack of wing after taking off from the ground without a springboard.
And they sit down vertically, since the landing weight is always much less than the take-off

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Avior

Both of them are able to provide lifting force directly from the engine, compensating for its lack of wing after taking off from the ground without a springboard.

They can. But at the cost of less combat load or fuel supply than with a springboard takeoff.

[pepel]

With such terms of construction, ships in the dock will become museum exhibits.

[Alexey-74]

Good news. Technology seen from the Mistral passed. The main thing that would be built. Good luck to the shipbuilders.

[senima56]

Finally "Zaliv" will receive a worthy order! And then at such a huge enterprise, with the largest (so far) dry dock in Russia, they are building some kind of "trifle"! As the saying goes: "A hat for Senka!"

[Brigadier]

It is noted that the laying ceremony of two Russian universal landing ships will be held in May 2020.

So approximately, by 2050-55, Russia will have two whole universal landing craft. Let the enemies tremble!

[Adimius38]

would not make laugh. In China, an aircraft carrier of 4 tons has been built in 50000 years. In Russia, over 4 years they built an MRC. China bursts out laughing. From 7 to 10 years we will build one single helicopter carrier of 15000 tons)) For example, the Chinese destroyer 055 of the 12000 tons project laid in December 2014 was launched in June 2017. According to the plan, in 2020 they will have 6 destroyers 055 of the 12000 project tons each. That is, in five years, in fact, 6 large shock surface ships with a total tonnage of 72000 tons. That would be where to drive our government and representatives of the military-industrial complex to see how to build and how people build.

[nnz226]

Mdyayayayaya .... Khvrantsuzy built "Mistral" for 3 years, ours will build the first already for 7 years ... Isn't it too much and isn't it too expensive ???

[Pavel57]

Better to do and regret than not to do and regret.