Nuclear cruiser Admiral Nakhimov is half ready

The heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov of the 1144 Orlan project, undergoing modernization at the Sevmash, is half ready and will be commissioned at the end of the 2022 year. This was announced by Deputy Minister of Defense Alexei Krivoruchko.

According to Krivoruchko, work on the cruiser is going according to plan, the Ministry of Defense fully provides funding for the ongoing modernization of the ship. This year, 29,5 billion rubles were allocated for the restoration of Admiral Nakhimov. According to the plans of shipbuilders, the ship will return to the Navy at the end of the 2022 year.

It will be the most powerful naval ship. fleet. We checked the progress, the ship’s readiness is now at 50%

- declared Krivoruchko.

Earlier it was reported that work on the modernization of the ship is in accordance with the approved schedule. According to the results of the work, he should receive the most modern weapons and become the most powerful ship of the Russian Navy.

In the process of modifying the weapons system, the cruiser should receive new unified launchers of UKKS 3С14. They can launch several types of missiles at once, such as various versions of the Caliber and Onyx missiles, a product of cooperation with the Indian defense and industrial complex Bramos, and, judging by the available data, the promising hypersonic Zircon missile. The exact nomenclature of the Admiral Nakhimov’s weapons is still unknown, however, it was stated that the cruiser would definitely receive the Fort-M and Pantsir-M air defense systems, as well as the anti-submarine Package-NK and Response.

The ship has been under repair at Sevmash since the 1999 year, modernization work began only in the 2013 year.

The cruiser Admiral Nakhimov of the 1144 Orlan project was laid down on 17 in May 1983 under the name Kalinin. On the 25 of April 1986 of the year launched, the 30 of December 1988 of the year entered service with the Northern Fleet. April 22 1992 year renamed the "Admiral Nakhimov."

It is one of four heavy nuclear-powered cruisers of the 1144 Orlan project. At the moment, only one of these ships is in a ready state - the flagship of the Northern Fleet, Peter the Great. The modernization of Peter the Great will begin immediately after the return of the Admiral Nakhimov to the Navy.

Comments

[urik62]

With a shift to the right while they accept, he will be 50 years old, horror

[KVU-NSVD]

With a shift to the right while they accept, he will be 50 years old, horror
Reply

That's right - this junk is on needles - Atlantov, Orlanov, Pike, Sharks,! There is nothing to be guided by the backward Americans with their modernized Ticonderoga, Burke, Ohio, Elk And at the same time cut the Tu-95, we American wrecked B-12 should not be an example! Hurray, advanced chelas! Into a brighter future without too much junk!

[urik62]

What I mean is that you can endlessly shift to the right,

[Pavel57]

There was a good phrase in one science fiction book - to buy a new nuclear bomb, but one, or second-hand, but two.

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Pavel57

There was a good phrase in one science fiction book - to buy a new nuclear bomb, but one, or used 2, but two.

And what is the meaning of this phrase in relation to this context?

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

I do not see the point in your foolishness. If Krivoruchko is telling the truth (I see no reason why he should lie), then one Nakhimov at a price will be about six 22350 Gorshkovs, while in terms of efficiency he is clearly not better than them, because he cannot be in six places at the same time.

If there is any sense in clinging to the old giant ships, then the maximum they need to carry out the HTG, otherwise another such "modernization" will put the entire Navy on all fours.

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

then one Nakhimov at a price will be approximately like six 22350 Gorshkovs, while at

Please give calculations of your calculations. And so yes. no brainer that six Gorshkovs are better than one Nakhimov.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

There was a link here that the price of one Gorshkov is approximately 450 million dead presidents. This is just around 30 billion rubles. If the ship has been under repair since 2011, although in fact it started somewhere in the 2016th, and if it was half prepared, it is not difficult to calculate that more than 100 billion rubles have already been swollen there and the same amount has been swelled. Further, a simple calculation shows that in aggregate this is the price of six Gorshkovs. Minimum.

[KVU-NSVD]

Firstly, Gorshkov is more expensive, and secondly, the same amount is spent on repairs every year - it all depends on the work being done and the degree of tailoring of the military budget. Not convinced.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

The 2011 link states that Gorshkov’s price is 18 billion rubles. Taking into account inflation and a possible jump in the course (although this is not so significant - the components in the ship are mainly ours), let it be 30 billion. Project 885 Ash costs about 0.8-1 billion, presidents, with a displacement of 13500 tons. More than half as much in terms of displacement Gorshkov will cost somewhere half as much, and this is logical.

As for the non-linearity of the repair price, then I agree. With the only amendment, that the most expensive part in the repair / modernization of this ship (like any other) is its electronic equipment (radar, etc.) and weapons. So, they have not really started to modernize this part yet, and there they will have to spend many times more money. Just for example: the 48n6 missiles of the Fort complex at Nakhimov have long been hopelessly outdated (shelf life of 15 years), most likely they have not been around for a long time, so you will have to buy new ones. The price of such a rocket can be judged by the one for which the Indians sold the R-73 and R-77 - about $ 1 million apiece. Let ours be a little cheaper, but such missiles usually take three full salvos on one side. There will be space prices and this is only for one rocket of one complex.

I change my assessment - as a result, one Nakhimov will cost 8 Gorshkovs.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

More than half the size of the pots will be worth about half as much, and this is logical

I explain on fingers - it makes sense to compare displacement only when ships similar to each other are compared, if only because frigates are with GTU, and Yaseni are nuclear power plants.

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

if it was prepared halfway, then it’s not difficult to calculate that more than 100 billion rubles have already been swollen with money and that the same amount

Now the stage of procurement of equipment is going on - that’s such a significant annual cost, because this is the lion's share of the cost of the entire contract. It is logical that extrapolating it all linearly to other years is completely wrong approach - when the cruiser was under repair, the cost was clearly lower.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

Something I doubt that the Ministry of Defense will pay for the equipment in advance. Most likely, they pay after the fact, as a maximum, for the equipment that they deliver during this year. For the systems that will be put on the ship next year, Moscow Region will pay only next year.
If you find on certain forums (I won’t give links, or else I’ll run into it) photos of Nakhimov’s current state, then you’ll notice that there are no radars and weapon systems there, which means that all the main expenses are still ahead.

[Povelitel_buri]

Do you seriously think that what is outside is the main waste?

Most likely, they pay after the fact, as a maximum

but I doubt that opta is done ex post - it’s not for you to buy on the market, here you need to finance the work from the very beginning. Money comes from the main customer for other counterparties from the very beginning of the work - especially since the goods are piece. Therefore, all your calculations do not stand up to criticism.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

You are an unrestrained optimist, since you believe in what you write :-)

Most likely this is the case: the budget of the Moscow Region always lacks money, and in the best case (which should also be considered unreasonably optimistic), it pays for expenses on time, according to a pre-approved schedule.

Never. I emphasize, never, MO will not pay for something that will be produced "sometime then." Even if the contract is signed in advance, the counterparty will receive money only when needed.
Best case scenario.
At worst - read about the "upgrade" pr 1155 here on Topvar.

[Povelitel_buri]

MoDs on state defense orders usually finance some small percentage of the total amount of the contract at the initial stage. When the time is right, it turns out that the financing was not rhythmic and the time is lengthening and the total amount is growing due to inflation.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

So you completely agree with me? :)

[Povelitel_buri]

So you completely agree with me? :)

I'm afraid I don’t agree - now the stage of equipment delivery to the ship - i.e. in fact and payment for the work performed. Of course, this is not all the equipment, and next year the supply of equipment can be a large amount. But this does not mean that in previous years they spent the same amount. That's all

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

Surely the order of the amounts varies greatly, especially if the MO reports about 50% of the work performed.

[Povelitel_buri]

MO reports, however, as usual, does not shine with specifics. And 50% of what kind of work does not specify. Maybe 50% of the volume of modernization? those. replaced / installed already 50% of the systems. AND?

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

As for "outside and inside", just turn on common sense: until the life support systems are ready and the main subsystems are not mounted (and there are just thousands of them there!), Then it is simply pointless to install RLO systems and weapons, and suddenly the problem will come out and it will have to be redone? The work there will be simply hellish, therefore the most expensive systems have not yet been assembled and your mind resists the understanding that they most likely do not exist yet. Have you heard anything about Fort-M? No it!

[Povelitel_buri]

the most expensive systems and systems, and most of them are inside the case, i.e. hidden. Even from these reports it is not clear how much and what kind of work has been carried out - maybe all general ship systems are already installed or are completing installation, and the installation of weapons systems is already in full swing. And it is not necessary to judge by the installed antennas - this is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

Yeah, all the systems are mounted, but the ship will only be ready by 2022. Do you believe that yourself?

This is a pointless argument. Just don’t be surprised if you hear next year that 40+ billion rubles were spent on modernizing Nakhimov. Its modernization has already gone sideways to the ships of the project 1155 and 971. I won’t be surprised if 945 are not modernized because of Nakhimov. If they take Kuznetsov this way, he will bring the entire Navy to his knees, and if they also upgrade Peter the Great, the whole army will be on all fours.

[Povelitel_buri]

all systems are mounted

sorry, but who said about all the systems?

Just don’t be surprised if you hear next year,

And I won’t be surprised - above I described to you that since equipment is not all that if a large amount will appear - nothing surprising.
Another thing is that it will already be 2020. those. by the end of that year or by the middle of 2021, all basic equipment and systems should already be standing and paid. For in the same 2021 he must go on the way. And he will have to go and pass the ZHI / GSI for a long time.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

You have very optimistic terms. As practice shows, ships in the modern history of the Russian Federation never surrendered on time.

The total amount of Nakhimov’s modernization will be in the region of 200 billion rubles. Which is approximately equal to the cost of six Gorshkovs (or even more).

[Povelitel_buri]

optimistic terms with you

these terms have already been shifted by no means indulge - by three years from the original!

200 billion rubles

You again for the old - well, soon we will find out about the final cost. My forecast is the most up to 150 billion.
PS The cost of pr. 22350 is already more than 30 billion, but you still have to consider that now you have begun to drive the improved subseries, which will be even more expensive.

[ser56]

27.09.2017 (16: 40)
Repair and modernization of the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov is proceeding in accordance with the schedule. It is planned that the repair and deep modernization of the Admiral Nakhimov heavy nuclear missile cruiser (TARKR) will be completed by 2021, Rear Admiral Igor Zvarych, head of the technical department of the Russian Navy, said this https://function.mil .ru / news_page / country / more.htm? id = 12143718 @ egNews # txt

17.01.2019
MOSCOW, January 17 - RIA Novosti. Tests of the Admiral Nakhimov heavy nuclear missile cruiser (TARKR) will begin in 2020, the press service of the Sevmash production association told reporters.
"The refurbishment of the Project 11442M cruiser (" Admiral Nakhimov "- ed.) Is underway in the loading basin. The repair, modernization and painting of the hull structures have been completed. Painting and insulation works on the outer skin and marking work have been launched. It is planned that the ship will be launched for testing in 2020 year ", - the message says.
https://ria.ru/20190117/1549508307.html

This music will be eternal ....

Quote: Povelitel_buri

The cost of pr. 22350 is already more than 30 billion

the problem is. that there were no engines for frigates, now they seem to be doing ...
but in any case, 6 frigates are better than 1 monster both tactically and in content ...

[Cyrus]

Why all of a sudden, he alone will sweep away your pots and move on.

[ser56]

Quote: Cyrus

Why all of a sudden, he alone will sweep away your pots and move on.

Why, if not a secret? Their shock weapons are the same, but 6 pot weapons have 6 * 16 = 96 cells, and Nakhimov has 72 ...

[Ivanchester]

The Gorshkovs laid down this year already have 24 cells ...

[ser56]

Quote: Ivanchester

The Gorshkovs laid down this year already have 24 cells ...

I proceed from reality, not a bright future ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: ser56

6 frigates are better than 1 monster

Exercising arithmetic like 1 to 6 or 1 to 8, you need to take into account another point: will the industry be able to hand over these 7-8 Gorshkovs to the fleet in 6-8 years (the period of modernization of Nakhimov), taking into account the limited number of slipways? Even if corvettes are not made at such a speed ... And then all your 1 to 6/1 to 8 becomes just demagoguery ...

[ser56]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

subject to a limited number of slipways

Well, if you do not keep on the slipway for 5 years - quite ... I note that with such seriality rhythm and cost reduction are possible - see the construction of diesel-electric submarines - they bake like pancakes ....

Quote: Povelitel_buri

And all these your 1 to 6/1 to 8 become just demagogy ...

1) if it’s not a secret - what is your speculation? everything that makes the bosses right?
2) The eagles were originally a mistake - it was necessary to drive the Atlanteans in a large series - instead of 4 eagles, it was completely possible to build 7-8 pieces in the built 3m ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: ser56

Well, if you do not keep on the slipway for 5 years

the corvettes "Zealous" and "Strogiy" did not get in the way - they are still holding them on the slipway - it will soon be 5 years old, and I doubt that the slipway period at Project 22350 will eventually be much shorter.

Quote: ser56

and what is your speculation?

Yes, in general, without any final information on the cost, all this is fortune-telling on coffee grounds

I had to drive the Atlanteans in a big series

Most likely I will even agree with you!
However, these Eagles corps provide an opportunity to "experiment" - to try to create a truly impregnable target.

[ser56]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

try to create a truly impregnable goal.

initially incorrect statement of the question Any target is destroyed in the era of nuclear weapons

Quote: Povelitel_buri

give an opportunity to "experiment" -

it’s clear that the money is popular - there’s no demand ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

all this fortune-telling on coffee grounds

even a pair of potted ones is already better - simply due to the fact that they are new and serial ship easier to operate ....

Quote: Povelitel_buri

- still hold on the slipway

There is always a reason, the opposite example from 636 I gave ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Any target is destroyed in the era of nuclear weapons

Oh, these arguments about the use of nuclear weapons
1) the threat of nuclear weapons comes from a very narrow circle of state-in
2) in order to use nuclear weapons ... you need to decide on this. For, it is one thing when the conflict, even with thousands of victims, but you can at least somehow de-escalate, and another thing when you are guaranteed to subscribe to Armageddon.
3) speaking of nuclear weapons against the NK, probably it will still be tactical nuclear weapons. But the carriers of TNWs are already quite vulnerable to themselves, and the radius of physical destruction of NKs from TNWs is not so big - only a few kilometers.

even a pair of potted ones is already better - simply due to the fact that they are new and serial to the ship easier to operate

Somehow you’ve got the rest of the criteria somewhere, and according to them the pair 22350 is not standing next to one 11442M

example with 636

I consider the Warsaw model example to be completely incorrect regarding the conversation on the construction of a BNK.
For this is a project that has been worked out for a long time, and the contractors for diesel-electric submarines and BNK differ very much, and in terms of complexity they are also incomparable. So you can and "rook" to remember - what is already there ...
Therefore, you need to pay attention only to the pace of construction of a BNK not lower than a corvette in order to assess the real capabilities of the industry - there are still too many bottlenecks there - this is the serial production of power plants (hello to gearboxes), gun mounts, and, of course, air defense systems.

[ser56]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

Oh, these arguments about the use of nuclear weapons

I have such a VUS ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

1) the threat of nuclear weapons comes from a very narrow circle of state-in

if not a secret, but against whom were the eagles? Against Tanzania?

Quote: Povelitel_buri

to use nuclear weapons you need ..

the attack of the KR Navy of the USSR with nuclear weapons on board is already an occasion ... something you have with logic ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

probably it will be TNW.

the use of nuclear weapons quickly leads to a global war ... well, hit the anlant or eagle with its granites from TNR to ACG - what's next?

Quote: Povelitel_buri

and as for them, a pair of 22350 and is not standing next to one 11442M

From what? Nakhimov will require terrible maintenance costs, and his combat value is doubtful, for a BS it is difficult to use it - they will not be allowed into most ports ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

and in complexity are also incomparable

to build submarines, even DEs, is noticeably more difficult than surface ships ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

this is the serial production of power plants (hello gearboxes), gun mounts, and, of course, air defense systems.

maybe the money spent on repairs of old trash should be invested in the modernization of production? See Almaz-Antey - for the production of S-400 they built a plant in Nizhny and now they don’t know grief ...
even in the Republic of Ingushetia, before the construction of the north-eastern lands, they invested in the development of shipyards, and now they have been waiting for diesel for years and have been building an 800t boat for 7 years ... nonsense ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: ser56

against whom were the eagles?

Against whom they WAS no longer important. It is important against whom they will be. And here there may be a whole range of countries that do not possess nuclear weapons, which he can seriously threaten with his 80th caliber.

Quote: ser56

already an occasion

Practice shows that not everything is so simple. Take at least the same example with a downed Su-24 - because of the attack on it, no one has unleashed a war with Turkey. And here the whole WORLD will be at stake.
Anyway, you forget a little about the important property of owning a weapon, namely the ability to deter the enemy. And this applies not only to nuclear weapons. Now this is very well manifested in the example of Syria - when a powerful group stood near its shores, no one dared to behave abruptly there. As soon as dull frigates remained on duty there, they immediately received a volley of tomahawks and Israel does what they want there.
And just Orlan, as a deterrent, is ideally suited for this task.

Quote: ser56

From what?

from the fact that according to other criteria that you don’t remember, he completely surpasses a couple of frigates:
- seaworthiness and the ability to use their weapons with a significantly greater plight (here 100 frigates will not help )
- range and speed, when the combat situation so requires.
- and of course, the combat potential of both shock and air defense and even anti-aircraft defense.
and most ports he doesn’t need.
Therefore, in principle, comparing Project 11442M with any number of 22350 is strange in view of the fact that 11442M will be able to perform such tasks that any number of 22350 cannot do, especially since Project 22350 is a DMZ ship, so what kind of comparison there can be.

Quote: ser56

to build submarines, even DEs, are noticeably more difficult than surface ships

What are you saying!
structurally, the submarine case is certainly more complicated than the NK case. However, the complexity of building NK in its systems, I already repeat this several times.
Why, for example, Gorshkov came to the test only by the end of autumn 2014? Yes, because he was waiting for the A-192M. And Polyment headlights installed on it even later. All of these air defense systems are much more complex and expensive than any of the systems for Warsaw.

Quote: ser56

maybe the money spent on repairs of old trash should be invested in the modernization of production?

yes - instead of upgrading morally and physically obsolete or outdated pr. 1155, 971, 949, 945 - the modernization program of which, incidentally, has already failed successfully.
But the story with the Eagles is different - the ships are not morally obsolete, and each of them can really multiply the capabilities of the fleet.

[ser56]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

Take at least the same example with a downed su-24 - because of the attack on it, no one has unleashed a war with Turkey

Your example doesn’t roll - is it a KR with nuclear weapons and 1000 people on board?

Quote: Povelitel_buri

- seaworthiness and the ability to use their weapons with much greater plight

The seaworthiness of the 5000t frigate is quite, it’s not MRC, but the scale - is it so important?

Quote: Povelitel_buri

that 11442M will be able to perform such tasks that any quantity of 22350 is not within the power

1) what are these? the main caliber they will now have one ...
2) This monster flies on a rock or by the stupidity of a watchman and that’s all ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

All of these air defense systems are much more complex and expensive than any of the systems for Warsaw.

Seriously? somehow many people can rivet NK, but even DEPL - not at all ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

- ships are not morally obsolete, and each of them can really multiply the capabilities of the fleet.

you contradict yourself - they change the main caliber ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Your example doesn’t roll - is it a KR with nuclear weapons and 1000 people on board?

In any case, the consequence of the use of nuclear weapons is incomparably more serious than conventional weapons.

Quote: ser56

Frigate seaworthiness 5000t

You are mistaken, a ship with 5000 tons of explosives still loses significantly faster speed and, consequently, range with say 4-5 points than a ship with a VI of 24000 tons. Here really dimensions decide.

Quote: ser56

is balance so important?

Well, you see, you don’t even suspect such a feature as limiting the use of weapons by the sea’s majesty. For frigates, 22350 is 4 points.

Quote: ser56

rivet nk

many can rivet the body of the NK, but air defense systems and GEMs make only a few for them - even less than those who make diesel-electric missiles. Air defense systems and gas turbine engines - this is the most expensive and time-consuming place for NK.

Quote: ser56

you contradict yourself

You just did not understand my thought - obsolescence lies in the fact that how many do not redo it, and there will be no more sense. With the Eagles, this did not happen, precisely because of:
- large sizes
- availability of nuclear power plants
- mine arrangement of missiles.
Any promising weapon can be loaded into its body - and everything will fit in the right amount and there will be no problems with the energy. What compares it favorably with other ships, for example from 1155, 956.

[ser56]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

the consequence of the use of nuclear weapons is incomparably more serious than conventional weapons.

who's arguing? But if there is a task to destroy the eagle / AB, is it not just like that? That is why the task of the "unsinkable" is a stupid utopia ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

when we say 4-5 points than a ship with a VI of 24000 tons.

So what? An AB in 100 tons is even more seaworthy ... why set strange tasks - to fight in a storm ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

you don't even suspect

you are mistaken, you should not attribute your phobias to your opponent ... see above - how much do you need to fight in a storm?

Quote: Povelitel_buri

Air defense systems and gas turbine engines - this is the most expensive and time-consuming place for NK.

It seems that they solved the problems with air defense, like the gas turbines ... I am deeply convinced that the problems with the gas turbine are a consequence, let's say so softly, of the shortsightedness of the individual leaders of the Navy responsible for shipbuilding ... and maybe with interest ... gas turbines in the country have been done continuously since the times of the USSR; well, fuel efficiency would be a little worse - this is not a problem ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

Any promising weapon can be loaded into its body

count how old he is but this is not even the main thing - the problem is that the idea of ​​monsters / super ships is flawed initially - the fleet should have not a couple of linear RCs, but a combination of surface forces ...

[Povelitel_buri]

Quote: ser56

But if there is a task to destroy the eagle / AB

Then there will already play the role of the presence of forces and means sufficient to confront it. That’s the whole point, because the enemy’s forces are not unlimited either.

Quote: ser56

why set strange tasks - fight in a storm

Sorry, but 4-5 points is not yet a storm, and often the NORMAL state of the ocean. Therefore, going out into the far ocean on a ship with a VI of 4500 tons, get ready to be unreadable most of the time of the entire BS, and trudge at 12 knots. And think about the crew in the end - on such a ship in such conditions you will not "fight" for a long time.

Quote: ser56

Like with air defense problems solved, like gas turbine

Look, yes - the problems were solved - they brought the PR to mind, mastered the technologies of production and testing of turbines. But there is still a bottleneck in the form of gearboxes, which have not yet been delivered to Severnaya Verf as part of the DGTA. But the most important thing we are talking about here is the rate of mass production. So after all these hassles with fine-tuning the systems, this is another problem, and they can't do them quickly, like the Warsaw women, because it is still a rather complicated production - this is another "narrowness".

Quote: ser56

count how old he is

I am aware of the grades of used steels and sheet thicknesses. And believe me, this body really has no "wear and tear", as one of the developers of this project said

Quote: ser56

the fleet should have not a pair of linear RCs, but a combination of surface forces

now, with the capabilities of our industry, despite significant financial injections, the fleet will not be able to get hold of the "formations" of full-fledged ocean-going ships, and even for the DMZ. And here there is an opportunity to multiply the capabilities of the fleet in real terms.

[ser56]

Sorry for the late reply - I was on a business trip ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

but 4-5 points is not a storm

I agree, according to the Beaufort scale, a storm with 9 points
5 points is a wave of 2-2,5 m ... if it's not a secret - to what excitement can an eagle?

Quote: Povelitel_buri

, and drag on 12 knots

so big moves require a lot of fuel ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

on such a ship in such conditions for a long time

his habitability is quite normal - Gorshkov circled almost around the world already , and the war will either be, or not ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

this is another problem

but solved ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

the case is really "no wear and tear", as one of the developers of this project said

I will say this - the developers have weighed the case - this is not good ...
not iron gets tired - insulation of cables, gaskets, etc. is aging - all change troubles a lot

Quote: Povelitel_buri

now, with the capabilities of our industry, despite significant financial injections, the fleet will in no way be able to get hold of "formations" of full-fledged ocean-going ships, and even for the DMZ

One of the main reasons for this is the dispersal of funds for many projects, see USA, they rivet one project in a large series, carrying out modernization, and we have renovated old stuff and already 2 types of RTOs, 4 types of corvette ...

Quote: Povelitel_buri

there is an opportunity in real terms to multiply the fleet's capabilities.

and you send this monster to 4 points right away? And how to maintain and repair it - everything is unique ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

See Almaz-Antey - for the production of S-400 they built a plant in Nizhny and now they don’t know grief

what exactly was built? building - office? and one workshop .... don’t tell - on the basis of one factory the signboard was changed, ennobled and mounted the workshop !!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

ennobled and mounted the workshop !!

have problems with the production of s-400? So they did what they needed ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

So they did what they needed.

Well ... it was a question of building a FACTORY! .. only cheers to the patriots were not in the house that the factory was, and it was not difficult to change the sign .... to build a beautiful multi-storey office ... .. to assemble the workshop .... even managed to buy a small part of imported machines .... that's just part and not all !!!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

only cheers to patriots not to the house that the factory was

if you have problems with the perception of information - read ... https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/107089/
or here about the new plant http://nzslp.ru/company/
https://nn.dk.ru/news/zavod-imeni-70-letiya-pobedy-otkryt-v-nizhnem-novgorode-pri-uchastii-prezidenta-rf-237013704

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

if you have problems

only you have problems, one of our firms was a contractor for this construction !!!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

you only have problems

think of yourself as your beloved, and give your opponents arguments not of type OBS ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

one of our firms was a contractor for this construction

those. implicitly admit sabotage? it’s not for me, it’s the prosecutor’s office ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

and give opponents arguments not of type OBS

so you do not oppose the word at all! I write only what I know, and when I don’t know, I write the word "I think so", but it doesn’t threaten you

Quote: ser56

implicitly admit sabotage?

Is everything normal with you? perform work according to deadlines and estimates do you call sabotage? You wrote about CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW FACTORY - I answered you that this is a lie! they built only an office (large) and assembled a workshop from the structures and all this on the territory of a working plant - which was and will be defense ... ... just changed the sign and refined everything, although at the same time even all the machines did not have time to purchase, sanctions prevented !!!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

and assembled a workshop from the structures and all this on the territory of a working plant

if not a secret - what did Putin discover?

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

if not a secret - what did Putin discover?

Putin didn’t open anything ..... if you are talking about his visit? - it was timed to coincide with the production of finished products .... opened it)) everyone’s favorite trampoline Rogozin .... three years ago or so!

[ser56]

I will kindly repeat the link
https://nn.dk.ru/news/zavod-imeni-70-letiya-pobedy-otkryt-v-nizhnem-novgorode-pri-uchastii-prezidenta-rf-237013704

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

I will kindly repeat the link

I repeat once again, Putin came when the plant released a batch of s-400 (your link) .... but the opening was earlier and Rogozin opened it! .... do you know how to listen? but they did not build a plant, but they assembled a modular workshop and built an OFFICE .... + ennobled the territory!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

I repeat again

Well, if you don’t know how to read and understand the text, I will kindly make an excerpt ...
"According to the general director of the Almaz-Antey East Kazakhstan region Yana Novikov, the total investment into these three factories was 120 billion rubles., including 104 billion - own funds, the press service of the concern reports. "

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

Well, if you do not know how to read and understand the text

This is you personally about yourself beloved !!, since in the materiel - 0!

Quote: ser56

According to Yana Novikov, general director of the Almaz-Antey East Kazakhstan region,

These "data" specifically for Nizhny Novgorod, how much did they give? and WHAT went for (construction or equipment or salary and taxes)? ... do you generally know what kind of plant it was, what exactly was it building ..... how many kickbacks were there? ... we were building ... kickbacks were worn .... any questions ?? and do not write to me anymore ..... no need ... especially since it is a flood, and he is punished!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

This is you personally about yourself beloved !!, since in the materiel - 0!

extremely controversial statement, which is not confirmed by factology ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

These "data" specifically for Nizhny Novgorod, how much did they give?

I already noted above that you don’t understand the text - you went to 3 factories ... you said that a workshop and an office were built ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

and WHAT did it (construction or equipment or salary and taxes)?

investment - in the quote quoted by me is noted .. but I'm not doing an audit ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

we built ... kickbacks wore .... any questions?

I'm not a prosecutor ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

any questions?? and don’t write to me anymore.

you have a strange construction of a phrase - ask about questions and immediately deny them ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

I eat it more flood, and he is punished!

I understand that you have nothing to say! The question arises - why did you declare that instead of factories they built workshops and offices, and stole money? I note that this is not a flood but a desire to understand what is behind your statement - reality or ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

The question arises - why did you declare that instead of factories built workshops and offices

Do you live in NN? no? then off .... everyone knows what happened and what happened!

Quote: ser56

you claimed that the workshop and office were built ...

you seem to be a troll .... it's useless to write anything .... if you lived in NN you wouldn’t ask stupid questions.

Quote: ser56

I'm not a prosecutor ...

Quote: ser56

I do not do an audit ...

then why argue if not at all in the subject .... ??

Quote: ser56

I note this is not a flood

the flood concerns everything that is not related to the topic of the article .... do you want to chat - in PM ... then off!

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

Do you live in NN?

Quote: Tiksi-3

you look like a troll ...

poking is not polite, it speaks of bad education ...
but in this case I consider it as not the desire to answer for my owl ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

everyone knows what happened and what became!

all this is nobody - I gave you the exact investment figures for the development of production capacities of S-400

Quote: Tiksi-3

if you lived in NN you would not ask stupid questions.

I understand the specifics will not be?

Quote: Tiksi-3

then why argue if not at all in the subject .... ??

I don’t argue, I’m trying to verify information in the media - you refute it ... but without proof .. at the same time with a transfer to the individual.

Quote: Tiksi-3

everything not related to the topic of the article

from what? I declared that it is necessary to develop shipbuilding capacities in the country, as was done for air defense ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

want to talk

no, experience has shown that you are not informative ...

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: ser56

I'm trying to verify information in the media - you refute it ... but to no avail ..

what evidence do you need ?? there was a plant A ... Rogozin arrived - he gave a command - they built an OFFICE and assembled a workshop called factory B .... where is the construction here ??

[ser56]

Quote: Tiksi-3

what evidence do you need?

Well, bad education is for life ...

Quote: Tiksi-3

need evidence ??

Your personal opinion is not indicative - can I link to the source?

Quote: Tiksi-3

built an office and assembled a workshop called factory B

1) for 120 billion?
2) by the way, it follows from you that the S-400 for the aerospace forces, China and Turkey was assembled in the office ...

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

The most unfortunate thing that you have not noticed is that Nakhimov has already eaten money for modernization of 1155 and 971. Even if they finally take up their modernization, it will creep away to the right by the timelines, which eliminates the very meaning of the modernization of these projects.

In order for the ships to be mass and serial, they need to be produced in a series of at least 8-10 ships, as was the case with pr 11356 (before the known problems with the gas turbine engine). If you try to do one project as with Orlan, then take on another, then try to upgrade the third and so on without end, then the fleet and money will go nowhere and there will be no ships and the combat readiness will be below zero. Even if industry doesn’t have the strength to immediately build 6 ships of Project 22350, then after a few years they still catch the series and then it will go much faster.
The American is building one single series of main ships of cover and support - Arlie Berke for more than 20 years! And they have built more than 70 of them. And they have weak minds. Vaughn released the same miscarriage called Zumwalt. However, their weak minds are rather an exception, because if they approached with the logic of "our" MO, they would not have any ships at all.

[Povelitel_buri]

Nakhimov has already eaten money for the modernization of 1155 and 971

and the modernization of these projects is generally a waste of money

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

then after a few years they still get the series and then it will go much faster.

even when they drive further the series of pr.22350, if they drive at all, then in any case, industry will not be able to supply approximately one frigate per year. Namely, such a pace is obtained in the case of your comparison 1 to 6/8.
The benefit of seriality can not be explained to me, I understand it very well. Now the question is about a quick multiple increase in the combat power of the fleet, and just the modernization of even two Orlanes allows this to be done.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

Nothing allows. If Nakhimov is ready by 2024, then it will be a miracle. And the additional modernization of Peter the Great will bring the rest of the fleet to its knees, despite the fact that it is unlikely to be ready before 2030.

That's it, I'm tired of arguing with you. Our dispute doesn’t solve anything, so then without me.

[ser56]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

Most unfortunate

exactly!

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

The fact that Gorshkov’s value is growing is this fault and Iotovs from the Moscow Region who, instead of giving a good series of 22350, began to rivet the alteration without ensuring the mass production of the head series. If we take Gorshkov as the head ship of the series, then its price will be ~ 30 billion.

Your forecast for the price of modernization is optimistic. No matter how much they have already spent 100 billion, and the main expenses are yet to come!

In any case, in terms of efficiency it is no better than 3 frigates (certainly not 5-6), and its loss in the war turns into a national tragedy, which should not be. Drowning 5-6 potted plants will be more difficult.

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

you will notice that there are no radars and weapon systems there at all, which means that all the main expenses are still ahead.

why all of a sudden? - An example, I am working on the MKD to repair 7 entrances .... .3 already done, but purchased materials for all seven .... does this mean anything to you?

[Cyrus]

It’s hard for you to probably understand the hedgehogs, but I don’t understand this far, probably because it’s not a hedgehog.

[Povelitel_buri]

then one Nakhimov for the price will be about six 22350 Gorshkovs

You sorted out something - from the power of piece 4. And it is not yet known how much the cost of the last two will increase compared to the basic version.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

No, six or even eight Gorshkovs. It’s just that if the repair is now worth ~ 30 billion, then when they start radar and weapons, the price will be even more and more at times.

[Povelitel_buri]

You somehow woke up late, the repair phase has already passed. Now in full swing there is a saturation of equipment - i.e. its purchase - from here and such amounts.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

No! Repair will be completed when the ship is ready to sail / walk, and this is not close.

[Povelitel_buri]

that you are completely confused with the "repair", I look. Now the stage of modernization is underway, for that is what it is called - these are completely different volumes of work and, accordingly, expenses.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

All major expenses are ahead. Fact. You can cling to the wording, but it will not change anything.

[Cyrus]

Yes, my friend is just a "troll", I'm sorry I didn't guess right away).

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

when they begin to radar and weapons, the price will be even more and more at times.

Exactly. By orders of magnitude.

[Konstantin Blinov]

Dear accountant, Nakhimov and Gorshkov are completely different ships for different applications and for different areas of operation! And yes, one Nakhimov with 90 Zircons on board will be more effective than 8 Gorshkovs with Caliber / Onyx.

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

Where is it said that Zircons cannot be put on Gorshkov? And yes, in order to drown the 6 Gorshkovs, you need much more nuclear submarines and the chance of this is much less than just one cruiser, the loss of which will be a real tragedy for the country and a real disaster for the fleet’s fighting efficiency.

[SASHA OLD]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

Where is it said that Zircons cannot be put on Gorshkov? And yes, in order to drown the 6 Gorshkovs, you need much more nuclear submarines and the chance of this is much less than just one cruiser, the loss of which will be a real tragedy for the country and a real disaster for the fleet’s fighting efficiency.

above, you directly made it clear that Nakhimov’s fighting efficiency is low compared to several Gorshkov’s, now you write that the loss of Nakhimov is a disaster for combat ...
But I am so ...

[Nikolay Semirechensky]

No contradictions. Just google how many weapons and missiles he needs to fill his armory cellars - there’s just a breakthrough, you won’t say otherwise. The loss of all this will be a disaster, and a sunken cruiser will also brutally hit the morale of the army.

[SASHA OLD]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

No contradictions. Just google how many weapons and missiles he needs to fill his armory cellars - there’s just a breakthrough, you won’t say otherwise. The loss of all this will be a disaster, and a sunken cruiser will also brutally hit the morale of the army.

got you

[ser56]

Quote: Nikolai Semirechensky

in the morale of the army.

fleet ...

[Cyrus]

Yeah, only he alone will sweep away your pots and move on.

[Alien From]

there is a sound grain in your reasoning, while we are modernizing the past, the whole world is rushing into the future by leaps and bounds!

[1976AG]

He alone in one place of affairs can specifically do those that Gorshkov is not capable of. Gorshkov alone is not a warrior at sea, but this one can also give a blow to the teeth.

[Dangerous]

"There is nothing to be guided by backward Americans with their modernized Ticonderogs, Burkes, Ohio, Elks And at the same time to cut the Tu-95, we should not be an example of American wreckage B-12"
Tovarisch! The Americans are not only modernizing but also actively building new ones. Check out how many berks and submarines they introduce each year. They are modernizing what they are making now. It is much cheaper and faster than restoring ships that we have not produced ourselves for 30 years. The Chinese generally replace their "Soviet" ships with new ships. The only advantage of this ship is that it looks great and mighty, although, as it has already been written here, it was much better to build 22350. But in our country, not everything is so simple, since we receive these 22350s once every five years, or rather just one.

[KVU-NSVD]

Quote: Dangerous

Comrade!

You are not "tovarisch" to me. Moderate your tone and then perhaps we will communicate to the point.

[Sergey1987]

Quote: Dangerous

The Americans are not only modernizing, but also actively building new ones.

And what do you suggest? Get involved in an unnecessary arms race with a 2nd world economy? We do not pretend to be the world gendarme and do not think that we need to build 10 aircraft carriers like the United States.

Quote: Dangerous

The advantage of this ship is that it looks great and powerful

I think that the cruiser armed with 60 KR will not only look mighty, but also be a strong military unit.

[Cyrus]

22350 a ship that is absolutely unnecessary and even harmful to the fleet, too expensive for its class, unable to fulfill the main function of a warship - combat. 22350 is just a dumb cut dough.

[max702]

Quote: Cyrus

22350 a ship absolutely unnecessary and even harmful to the fleet, too expensive for its class, unable to fulfill the main function of a warship - combat.

Duc for battle with an equal or superior enemy, the current fleet is not designed! Favorite weapon between Bole less equal opponents is NAVAL! For this is not the use of weapons against another opponent, but just a clash .. Even in civilian life, if you whack someone with the butt of a gun and he dies, then it will be considered completely different if you would have stupidly shot him .. And here it is! That we could not melt the Ukrainian pelvis near the bridge? but I had to press with the side because this is a "completely different" thing .. Any sea battle, and even with the results of the destruction of drowning between major powers (and other fleets do not) will lead to the use of strategic nuclear forces .. Therefore, in principle, it is SPECIAL AND NOT IMPORTANT WITH WHAT IS ARMED WITH THE SHIP IS IMPORTANT THE FLAG OF GOS-WA ABOVE IT .. Zimbabwe or Laos nuu can be drowned by shooting (prada they themselves will never climb) and if the USA, China, Russia and others, then we puff up our cheeks, frown and a neat battering ram as much as possible. That is why the super duper ships of the AUG analogs and our Eagles are not present TODAY. The only thing that can be drowned relatively secretly by a submarine is far from always and not everywhere ..

[1976AG]

Therefore, in the PRINCIPLE, IT IS SPECIAL AND NOT IMPORTANT WHAT THE SHIP IS ARMED, THE STATE-WA FLAG IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THEM .. Zimbabwe or Laos nuu can be drowned by shooting (prada they themselves will never climb) and if the USA, China, Russia and others then we inflate our brows frowning and a maximum neat ram .. EVERYTHING is fraught .. That's why it washed away in the super duper ships AUG analogues and our Eagles TODAY no ..
Well, you are very bent! Following your logic, you can simply old trough without weapons, but with the flag of Russia to release the protection of sea borders! For why does he need a weapon, if it still cannot be used. Any military unit should be ready to use weapons, only then it will mean something. Moreover, because of the sinking of one enemy ship, the war will not start, because everyone wants to live anyway, and not everyone is ready to give their life for the sake of principle, so it's time to stop the tales of the third world because of the sunken enemy ship .

[max702]

You look at the facts, not idle talk ..
And in fact NAVAL and all .. The rest is from the realm of fiction.
RS: The world of the sunken ship did not start due to a VERY hefty vira and it was not long ago (Kursk) ..

[1976AG]

Quote: max702

You look at the facts, not idle talk ..
And in fact NAVAL and all .. The rest is from the realm of fiction.
RS: The world of the sunken ship did not start due to a VERY hefty vira and it was not long ago (Kursk) ..

The reasons can be called different, but the result is that the world has not begun. The details of the incident are also important. It's one thing if we sink a NATO ship somewhere near the territory of the United States, and quite another if we sink it in our own waters, in this case no third world war will start. In this case, NATO members will think again before approaching our borders. If the Americans want to find a reason to start a war, be sure they will find it. And if every time we are like ostriches with their heads in the sand, then for them this is a sign of our weakness and then everything will be repeated as in 1941. And history does not teach us anything either, again as before, "the main thing is not to succumb to provocations!"

[max702]

Quote: 1976AG

It’s one thing if we sink a NATO ship somewhere near the territory of the USA and it’s quite another if we sink in our territorial waters

Well, Duc, remember the most famous bulk in the World Cup during the Soviet era .. There was a ship in our waters, but they did not dare to drown it from all the barrels .. And with considerable risk they were pushed into neutral waters .. Any dry cargo ship or tanker could do the same if only the flag hung right .. And I repeat it just in the days of the USSR when the adversary was well aware of the return will fly! But ours also understood that they would not get off with "tomatoes" and decided not to aggravate .. Today, the same thing, except that the "partners" are not so sure of the retaliatory strike ..

[Corn]

it’s old stuff - Atlantov, Orlanov, Pike, Sharks!

save a couple as museums in some kind of Kronstadt or St. Petersburg, near Aurora, and the rules. In general, yes, it’s time to write off the obsolete wunderwaffs (actually, they’re actively doing it now)

There is nothing to focus on backward Americans with their modernizable Ticonderoges, Burke, Ohio, Elk

backward Americans and Chinese are trying to write off ships over 30 years old, and only the Russian Navy has its own way.

at the same time cut the Tu-95, we American wrecked V-12 should not be an example!

The retention of the b-52, this is clearly not the example to which it is worth following.

Into a brighter future without too much junk!

You’re easier with such slogans, municipal elections have already passed.

[KVU-NSVD]

backward Americans and Chinese are trying to write off ships older than 30 years,

It’s not funny for yourself? The most recent example is the complete overhaul of head Ohio. Find out how old he is. Further examples give laziness. About the Air Force is not an argument for you, but it’s the same with the Abrams, for example ... Nobody in the world writes off equipment only because it has been there for many years, they write off only when there is a replacement, moreover, a replacement justified by the price ratio -efficiency

[SASHA OLD]

Quote: KVU-NSVD

backward Americans and Chinese are trying to write off ships older than 30 years,

It’s not funny for yourself? The most recent example is the complete overhaul of head Ohio. Find out how old he is. Further examples give laziness. About the Air Force is not an argument for you, but it’s the same with the Abrams, for example ... Nobody in the world writes off equipment only because it has been there for many years, they write off only when there is a replacement, moreover, a replacement justified by the price ratio -efficiency

I confirm: just read today - "Warthog" (A-10 Thunderbolt 2 - amersky shtmovik) is being modernized again

[capsid]

He’s not even fit for needles

[Konstantin Blinov]

SO THIS IS THE ORLAN PROJECT !!! DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING AND WRITE SUCH Crap!

[smart ass]

Giblets of offal are new, the reactor drags and everything is OK

[Kamiran]

I think that it is necessary to rename the class of these ships to STAOKR - Over Heavy Atomic Ocean Cruiser.

[PROXOR]

Forgot one letter. STAOGKR - Over Heavy Nuclear Ocean Guard Cruiser

[Pavel57]

Shorten the name - ARL - atomic missile battleship.

[PROXOR]

The battleship must have a non-acidic reservation. But Nakhimov has no armor.

[Cyrus]

Easier to battle cruiser

[Cruel beaver]

I am writing from .Ukraine .... there are no words the soul hurts for Russia .... the glory of Russia !!!!!

[tihonmarine]

Project 1144 "Orlan" of such a handsome man can only be compared with "Cutty Sark"

[Old bun]

The most beautiful ship, the base of the compound, its skeleton, Russia needs such, it needs. well that upgrade. and takes pride in the USSR, such handsome men built. ehhh

[parkello]

half ready? is it from the point of view of optimists or pesimists? it would be better if he was called Kalinin, you see it would be more useful for him ... I remember one Admiral Nakhimov from Batumi when he was resting ... he sank. they can’t finish the second one .. change the name of the ship, otherwise it will never go on the way.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: parkello

change ship name

In the courtyard of the Middle Ages,
Obscurantism and jazz ...

[Graz]

we are doing everything very slowly

[igorlvov]

schA still enter the 4-hour day and rush everything to the right)))

[SlavaS]

What will happen faster, the ship will be completed, or Sechin will complete the cottage

[Duck]

Interestingly, with "Ushakov" and "Lazarev" will work to be carried out on restoration and modernization, or did they finally decide to "under the knife"?

[Orkraider]

Quote: And

Interestingly, with "Ushakov" and "Lazarev" will work to be carried out on restoration and modernization, or did they finally decide to "under the knife"?

No, it makes no sense to restore them for a number of reasons:
- There is no place in Sevmash, after Nakhimov’s exit, Peter will take his place.
-Ushakov and Lazarev in poor condition, both in buildings and in equipment.
The decision has already been made, albeit sad and sorry for these beauties, but alas .... And the fact that the two will be operational and modernized is good, let's be optimistic and rejoice at these large and fattened tits

[Duck]

I agree that in this case it is better this way than not at all. All the same, 2 is better than 1. Although in the 15th year, as it turned out, "Lazarev" was planned to be overhauled. But apparently it did not grow together, it's a pity.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Orkraider

And the fact that the two will be in service and modernized, it pleases,

Well, Duc, just for KSF and Pacific Fleet. In the Baltic and Black Sea "Eagles" did not resist for various reasons, both objective and subjective.

[Ivanchester]

I nevertheless modestly hope that the command of the Navy will still guess not to breed the ships of the same type in different fleets.
It will be much more effective if both "Oralans" are in the North, and "Ustinov" is transferred to the Pacific Fleet.
Although, given that both "Petra" and "Varyag" also need to be capitalized, the time when we will have at least two cruisers in both fleets will obviously not come soon :(

[Tiksi-3]

Quote: Ivanchester

and Ustinov will be transferred to the Pacific Fleet.

but -

Quote: Ivanchester

Taking into account that both "Petra" and "Varyag" also need to be capitalized, the time when we will have at least two cruisers in both fleets will obviously not come soon :(

[Whowhy]

I hope the title of the article is not a hint of a well-known anecdote: "This way - in general, and so - half (well, the gestures are appropriate)".

[FRoman1984]

Beautiful ship.
"Peter the First" is next, the remaining 2 are sorry that it will not work to upgrade. I met somewhere an article that the Ministry of Defense decided to dispose of them.

[Andrey Andrey]

By the way Kuzya is everything. Disbanded. The order has already been given.

[Pavel57]

You can understand. Everything will have to be from the beginning, with UDC.

[Ivanchester]

And do not share the source of this sad news?

[Div Divich]

Quote: Povelitel_buri

MoDs on state defense orders usually finance some small percentage of the total amount of the contract at the initial stage. When the time is right, it turns out that the financing was not rhythmic and the time is lengthening and the total amount is growing due to inflation.

Inflation, this is such a tricky word, when they do not want to understand the increase in costs, they first point to it. And if you start to understand, then inflation will have names and surnames, and cottages with cars bought with this money.

Energy resources (gasoline, electricity, gas) mainly create inflation, so their shareholders buy cottages with foreign cars for money from inflation.