Gunsmiths criticize bill banning part of smoothbore weapons

141
New “anti-weapons” laws on “Lancaster” / “paradoxes” proposed by deputies of the State Duma threaten the dismissal of up to 10 people, and the loss of the Russian armory industry will be in the billions. This is the official position of the Russian Arms Union, voiced in an article published in the journal Kalashnikov.





The magazine "Kalashnikov" posted Article, sharply criticizing a number of initiatives restricting / prohibiting the sale of smoothbore firearms, as well as prohibiting or tightening the conditions for the purchase of .366 TKM, .366 Magnum, 9,6 / 53 Lancaster and .345 TK cartridges.

The article, drawing on the consequences of a number of initiatives of the State Duma deputies related to the circulation of civilian weapons, emphasizes that all the proposals made can cause a serious blow to the industry and cause multibillion-dollar losses.

In my opinion, in this case we encountered some kind of deputy extremism and the time has come to calmly, carefully and formally respond to the current situation to the participants of the Russian arms market who are vitally interested in its development.

- commented on the situation the chief editor of the magazine Mikhail Degtyarev.

Multibillion-dollar loss to industry and budget


First of all, the material touches on the draft law “On Amending the Federal Law“ On Weapons ””, submitted on June 27 of 2019 at a meeting of the working group created by the State Duma’s Committee on Security and Anti-Corruption under the leadership of Alexander Khinshtein.

It is noted that the bill, the criticism of which most of the article is devoted to, provides for the removal of smooth-bore guns, when fired from which the bullet acquires rotational motion. Only today, tens of thousands of “trunks” of this type are in the hands of the population. To compensate, the owners of the federal budget will have to allocate about 1 000 000 000 rubles.

In addition, the initiative outlaws barrel extensions, “chock” and “pay” nozzles, and weapon barrels into which such extensions are already integrated. According to the Union of Russian Armsmakers, some 150 000 units of such weapons are currently in circulation. In this case, the amount of compensation may reach 10 billion rubles.

Costs will be borne by consumers


The deputy initiative prohibits the cartridges .336ТКМ, .345ТК, .366 Magnum and 9,6 / 53 Lancaster: they were developed by Russian enterprises without raising budget funds, and, according to the law, developers will again have to receive compensation.

But most importantly, all bans threaten the dismissal of 10 to thousands of workers in the industry (many with higher education), cause it the most severe financial damage, the lost profit of arms distribution networks in Russia will reach 300 000 000 000 rubles (20-percent VAT will also not go to income state), and a large part of the costs of implementing deputy ideas will again fall on the shoulders of the consumer.
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    1. +38
      10 September 2019
      The deputies have nothing to do. The pension reform is being promoted, or the 4-day week. And then they took up the firearms. They don't like Lancaster! You ask why ... They won't answer. laughing
      1. +11
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        MPs have nothing to do

        Campaign, deputy hit over Kalashnikov. You look, and the rollback will be cut down. FSB, ooo-oooo !!

        A joke, but ... wink
        1. +13
          10 September 2019
          In general, I would like to know my "heroes" by surname
          1. +48
            10 September 2019
            Quote: 210ox
            In general, I would like to know my "heroes" by surname

            We know the "heroes".
            For example, here list of laws adopted with the filing of EdRa for the autumn-spring session of 2017-18:

            1. The law on increasing value added tax (VAT) from 18% to 20%.
            2. The law on raising the retirement age in the first reading.
            3. The law on Russian offshore zones for international holding companies.
            4. The law on increasing the state duty for the issuance of foreign passports and driver's licenses of a new generation.
            5. The bill on the creation of a separate resort base for Russian judges.
            6. Law on abuse of the right to rallies in the first reading.
            7. A package of amendments to federal legislation that vested the president with exclusive powers.
            8. The law on the introduction of duties for citizens when purchasing goods in any foreign online stores in the first reading.
            9. A law that permits the registration of migrants in non-residential premises.
            10. A law that allows citizens of Russia to collect deadwood “for their own needs”.

            A total of 10 laws of which none, except the mocking law on the collection of dead wood, can not be called national. The law on pensions is openly anti-people, while others in one way or another worsen the life of the people of Russia.
            And here is a list of 16 laws that edros did not miss during this session:

            1. The bill on strengthening parliamentary control over the activities of state-owned companies and state corporations.
            2. The bill, which proposed to equate the salaries of senators and deputies to the national average - 35 thousand rubles.
            3. The bill on illegal enrichment.
            4. The bill banning the holding of key positions for persons with or having a criminal record who has been prosecuted for corruption.
            5. Amendments to the Criminal Code which proposed to toughen the punishment for theft with significant damage and mitigate it for minor thefts.
            6. Four bills on the transition to a progressive scale for personal income tax.
            7. A bill prohibiting close relatives from simultaneously working in the State Duma or the Federation Council.
            8. The bill on the restoration of state control over the Central Bank.
            9. The bill, which obliges the relatives of corrupt officials to compensate for the damage.
            10. The bill on the provision of state support to citizens below the poverty line.
            11. Bill on additional material support for the disabled.
            12. The bill on the distribution of part of the income from mining between citizens of Russia.
            13. A bill to limit the level of salary payments to coaches and athletes in the event of retirement from competitions at their early stages.
            14. The bill on state regulation of food prices, limiting price increases.
            15. The bill on the restoration of indexation of pensions to working pensioners.

            As we see, not a single law that is necessary for the people or infringing on the rights of oligarchs and officials by the United Russia party has been adopted. And this is only in one year! hi
            1. +5
              10 September 2019
              Ummm ... This is how I understand my "Vepr-Hammer" just falls under the article, because of the interchangeable checks and half-checks integrated into the barrel .. Somehow I don't really want to part with it .. (
        2. +4
          10 September 2019
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          MPs have nothing to do

          Campaign, deputy hit over Kalashnikov. You look, and the rollback will be cut down. FSB, ooo-oooo !!

          A joke, but ... wink

          The power of the armed people is afraid, for no hour we will hunt only with bows, we already have a law.
          1. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: RUSS
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Quote: Mountain Shooter
            MPs have nothing to do

            Campaign, deputy hit over Kalashnikov. You look, and the rollback will be cut down. FSB, ooo-oooo !!

            A joke, but ... wink

            The power of the armed people is afraid, for no hour we will hunt only with bows, we already have a law.

            Just ordinary deputy nonsense, by the principle - something needs to be offered.
            1. +4
              10 September 2019
              ordinary deputy nonsense

              It is possible that they are right! Our deputies can not always boast of a clear mind .. But it is a pity that we choose such.
              1. +2
                11 September 2019
                Quote: krot
                It’s a pity that we choose these.

                We do not select them; these are technologies, marketing. Oddly enough, they choose for us and for us. They are not responsible for their words in the elections, then what's the point of putting a tick? The winner is the one who has the most money for the campaign, for advertising in particular. These are Western technologies for controlling colonies and for controlling the population in the West itself, people who are in the shade make real decisions, as a rule, we don’t know them at all. Presidents and premieres only voice them. Alas. We have a little wrong now, not so in China and S. Korea, Iran, Cuba and, probably, that’s all. We were able to get away from total control by the West through elections, which infuriates the West, although for our people this is still like a dead poultice. The authorities do not reform this institution into the necessary form, but only use it for their own purposes.
          2. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: RUSS
            Fearing the power of the armed people

            That's who about what, and ... you are all about ... a bath.

            Why should the "power" be afraid of the "people" armed with smooth-bore pukers? With them against the AK - yes, just shoot yourself, I am already silent that the "authorities" and more serious AK have arguments request
            1. +4
              10 September 2019
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              Why should the "power" be afraid of the "people" armed with smooth-bore pukers? With them against the AK - yes, just shoot yourself, I am already silent that the "authorities" and more serious AK have arguments

              The ban is all the more ridiculous ... request
          3. +4
            10 September 2019
            Quote: RUSS
            Fearing the power of the armed people, not an hour we will hunt only with bows,

            There are also bows - wow! And they can be banned. And for me, so-senility grows stronger. request
          4. 0
            11 September 2019
            She is not afraid of anything. She has the Russian Guard, armed to the teeth, is. Just out of harm. They want to ban everything, as in Europe, so that everyone goes under the article.
        3. 0
          12 September 2019
          SMERSH must be restored - oh, how it is!
      2. +10
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        They don't like Lancaster! You ask why ... They won't answer.

        There was an opinion that the hunters themselves were to blame: they shouted too loudly that, they say, "Lancasters" and "paradoxes" were almost as good as the cut. Apparently, the idea came to someone's bright deputy's head to fix these things by law.

        But in general, everything is as always: as soon as something really new and interesting appeared (even with a slight pretension to be innovative), we immediately begin to struggle with this. It is sad that with this approach, the production of civilian weapons in our country will finally collapse (to the delight of our new friend - Turkey).
        1. +5
          10 September 2019
          That it is so stale. They are shoving frank shit on the market, which is still necessary to be finished with a file. I haven’t seen articles on finishing Binnel, Remington, Berett, but here are articles on finishing different Saigas, Verprey, TOZs and MROk a dime a dozen
          1. +2
            10 September 2019
            That's for sure. Himself on the Saiga 20C was engaged in peeling USM. Well, the factory counter did not pin me, when the shot does not occur when you press the "hook", but at the moment when you release it ... The quality from the factory is just super !!!fool
          2. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: Sergey10789
            Binels, Remington, Berett,

            It’s difficult and expensive with this ...
            Quote: Sergey10789
            and here are articles about dopilivaniya different Saig, Verprey, TOZov and MRok pond pond

            But its own and not so expensive, the ban on the Lancaster and the paradox is all the more pinned. wink
            1. 0
              25 September 2019
              Come on! Benelka can be taken from scratch for up to 80 tr. and for that money you’re buying a gun and Benelli, not a stick-shooter
              1. 0
                25 September 2019
                Quote: Sergey10789
                Benelka can be taken from scratch for up to 80 tr. and for that money you’re buying a gun and Benelli, not a stick-shooter

                Well, the rich have their quirks ... request
          3. -3
            11 September 2019
            I finished up with all my friends and myself, including Remington, from 700 to the floor of .223, .270 automatic rifles and 597 small things of all kinds. And parts in a friend in Russia sent them. Binelli, too, is still a siss ... money costs unmeasured quality so-so. Beretta .... love Beretta..good. But throw the Neos small gun into the trash right after the purchase .. (it was removed from the assembly line) .Tow, you don’t have to roll a barrel at our manufacturers .. They survive under the most difficult conditions.
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            2. 0
              25 September 2019
              Something you, sir, your will, lying. ) Finished how ?! Oxidized? Changed the forearm / butt ?! Fastened the weaver straps ?! ))) This is not doping. Doping is when you try to bring an MP trunk that is crooked from the factory. When you are firing a chamber, what would a cartridge go into ... And a lot of a lot of things. I myself am the owner of a whole arsenal of imported weapons. And I came to him after owning two domestic trunks. And you know what I'll tell you? Patriotism is certainly good, but as regards weapons, it is not worthy even to be sold! (
              1. 0
                25 September 2019
                In general, you are right. Even glassbedding is tuning, repair of 597 remington due to the striker hitting the edge of the chamber is also trifles, although you still have to bore a little differently the cartridge will not fit into the chamber. YES, I remember how I cut off the muzzle cut at 90 degrees with a file on Izh 27, it was beveled to the left. But I was pleased with him. I didn’t look at the clumsy goodness. Low-quality weapons for shooters and hunters are the atheism of the defenders of the late union. And a good example is the ATAMAN company making excellent pneumatics.
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                  1. 0
                    26 September 2019
                    Quote: tracer
                    Sooner or later you will have to answer for a bunch of lies and unfounded accusations

                    Again proof in the studio!
                    Quote: tracer
                    Here is a photo of the problem more precisely than one of.

                    Photo as photo. Only for some reason you can not see the lathe for boring. The owner of the trunk, most likely just fabulous before...man. The nature of the damage suggests that a blank was shot from the purchase. 99% that after a couple of hundred blank shots they laid siege to the drummer's spring, and he was firmly stuck in the forward position, and then finished off the breech. During normal shooting, this simply does not happen, because the striker hits the edge of the case. The combat output of the striker's striker in small-bore rifles beyond the shutter mirror is a maximum of 1 mm, the thickness of the case edge is 1 mm., And the hardening on the breech is about 1,5 mm, which means that the striker protrudes at least 2,5 mm, and work hardening is made by the mass of the shutter + the force of the return springs. So, the "respected" photo does not apply to standard 597 model malfunctions and small-bore rifles in general. I won’t be surprised that this is your rifle ....
                    1. -1
                      26 September 2019
                      Go on the gas and read about the malfunctions. Yes, to the very one where at one time you got everyone. You even in the eyes of the sand embankment you will still deny.
                      1. 0
                        26 September 2019
                        Quote: tracer
                        Go on the gas and read about the malfunctions

                        So you don’t go there negative
                        There they offend children!
        2. +1
          10 September 2019
          Quote: Kalmar
          There was an opinion that the hunters themselves were to blame: they shouted too loudly that, they say, "Lancasters" and "paradoxes" were almost as good as the cut.

          At the end of the 60s, rifled barrels down to small pieces were withdrawn from civil circulation. The presence of a rifling was allowed exclusively for professional hunters, traders who handed over to the state the furs, game and animals they had got. The smoothbore was for amateurs who, in order to increase the range and give the bullet a rotational motion, they introduced ribs (Brenneke, Mayer) into the design of the bullets or added a turbine shank (Poleva). In principle, knowing the capabilities of their gun and bullet, few beat the animal and bird beyond the bounds of confident defeat, which was good because it gave few wounded animals that were difficult to get and were wasted, which already kept the animal population without introducing draconian prices for licenses and vouchers. Now everyone has got grooves, "roll on the roll," beat on everything that moves. Without getting out of the cars, through the window, they shoot everything that is within sight "from mouse to bear", not allowing males or females to descend. Sometimes it is simple, while these "hunters" stomp from the car after the game, they cannot find the tree from which the game fell. In the area of ​​roads, there will soon be a completely sterile territory from living creatures. That would be something for the deputies to attend to, limiting the use of rifling, and not smoothbore.
          1. 0
            11 September 2019
            For some reason, Germany does not have this problem. There is a beast there, and hunting is cheaper than ours. They just know how to breed and keep order.
      3. +10
        10 September 2019
        Yes, because they’re afraid ..
      4. +3
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        They don't like Lancaster! You ask why ... They won't answer.

        But the krenushki guessed! Already answered! Answered that "provides for the removal of a smoothbore gun, when fired from which the bullet acquires a rotational motion." Yes
      5. +10
        10 September 2019
        ... After all, they will not answer.
        They worry about the people. After all, peasants will shoot each other. They will go out and shoot at someone without hitting them. They are our caring.
        1. +4
          10 September 2019
          Quote: cormorant
          ... After all, they will not answer.
          They worry about the people. After all, peasants will shoot each other. They will go out and shoot at someone without hitting them. They are our caring.

          hi
          Well, bolt them. If they begin, then only through grief to lawmakers.
      6. +7
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        The deputies have nothing to do. They are promoting pension reform, then 4-day week. And then they took up a firearm.

        There is no problem to break it, "Decree, order, break down guys!" And how many years, how much labor and money was spent, and then, by a wave of a "magic wand", everything went to "auger" .. We all laughed at the circus on the air from "Verkhovna Rada". It looks like the virus is transmitted by air and by telephone.
      7. AUL
        +3
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        The deputies have nothing to do.

        I wonder why they motivate such a decision? Are you afraid that they will be shot at overnight?
        1. -2
          11 September 2019
          It has been noted that it is liberalism that is most afraid of the armed population, and its own and it does not matter where.
      8. 0
        10 September 2019
        These calibers simply move into rifled weapons. No one will suffer any losses. On existing trunks, you will need to get permission, which will take time.
      9. +2
        10 September 2019
        The answer is simple - the National Guard and those whom it defends are afraid of the armed people No. . The desire to reserve, the right of a violent reaction to injustice in their sweaty shaking public servants and corruption pens. They want to leave the state monopoly i.e. seigneur on the use of force both in relation to slaves so between slaves i.e.. subjects.
        Armed (albeit in a truncated version) people is a community assessing the situation negative, including not being state military, but having military training of people, relatively able and able to use force soldier incl. and organized (armed), incl. against those in power. And after all, the "paradox" at close range is even nothing. relatively affordable price, availability of ammunition and their manufacture, familiar shape and ergonomics. Yes, we know him, almost from school good . Therefore, there is something to be afraid of, but for foreign trunks you can tear the price - Mom Do not Cry.
        1. 0
          11 September 2019
          I do not believe. With a double-barreled shotgun on an armored personnel carrier against body armor and machine guns? It’s ridiculous. There are no precedents. In the event of a revolution, army units will fight among themselves. In extreme cases, the people will seize the arsenals. Like in Chechnya or the Donbass.
          Deputies act simply out of harm. So that the people even take away the illusion of freedom.
      10. +1
        10 September 2019
        Yes, the deputies have nothing to do with it, they threw the decree from the "office" from above, and the deputies are now just crowing parrots as ordered ... and no more
        People are afraid, and rightly so
      11. +1
        11 September 2019
        They just don't know what Lancaster is. laughing And the rest: they just need to at least somehow try to justify their worthless existence, that is, they create the appearance of some kind of activity. All the same, no serious law can be passed without a command from above.

        Lord, how I want to hear at times the famous Zheleznyakovskoe: "The guard is tired!" soldier
    2. +9
      10 September 2019
      And what's that?
      Hunters, what do you say.
      In principle, it is easy to prohibit, because measures to ensure the CORRECT operation of any equipment, weapons, all the more, require a lot of intelligence and hard work !!! Our vigil, is that not given?
      1. +14
        10 September 2019
        Quote: rocket757
        Hunters, what do you say.

        the bulk that buy TCM are not hunters at all. These are people who piously believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation" and what will happen next "will be very good." They are preparing for improvements, so to speak. give away with bullets.
        1. +2
          10 September 2019
          Quote: polar fox
          the bulk of those who buy TCM are not hunters at all. They are people who piously believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation"

          Those. is this weapon for potential "partisans" and others who are dissatisfied with something?
          1. +4
            10 September 2019
            This weapon is more suitable for entertainment and possibly training or as a torn gun.
            1. +1
              10 September 2019
              Quote: BARKAS
              This weapon is more suitable for entertainment and possibly training or as a torn gun.

              It is more suitable for training and acquiring skills, handling rifled weapons.
              or like a torn gun.

              It is more correct to say here, the first gun, for practicing skills, for acquiring rifled weapons.
          2. +4
            10 September 2019
            in general, yes, until the Rosgvardeytsy bring more perfect, this can be done for the first time.)))
            1. 0
              10 September 2019
              Quote: polar fox
              until the Rosgvardeytsy bring more perfect, this is the first time you can do

              In the smooth-bore against the platoon (yes even the separation) of machine gunners are going to fight?

              Peace be upon the Lord, the soul of your sinful slave ... (this is what a noun asks for ...) request

              Or expect the Rosguards you will they bring something?

              Well, then exactly that noun laughing
          3. +4
            10 September 2019
            Quote: rocket757
            Those. is this weapon for potential "partisans" and others who are dissatisfied with something?

            for potential partisans, a .300 / .308 / .338 Win / Magnum / Lapua, 7,62x54 / 7,62x39 caliber cutter is more suitable than a smoothbore ...
            1. -7
              10 September 2019
              Sliced ​​in "everyday life" we are not welcome at all!
              1. +3
                10 September 2019
                Quote: rocket757
                Sliced ​​in "everyday life" we are not welcome at all!

                this is whose opinion? DG or cops with exBB?
                1. 0
                  10 September 2019
                  What does the opinion, how this process is regulated by law, should be so.
                  Another thing is that you can cook up a by-law or finally change the law !!! The Duma, actually, the legislature, they can!
            2. +1
              10 September 2019
              For the partisans, the main thing is the availability of SKS and TIGER ammunition is quite suitable for these purposes.
              1. +1
                10 September 2019
                Quote: BARKAS
                For the partisans, the main thing is the availability of SKS and TIGER ammunition is quite suitable for these purposes.

                if the partisan movement begins, I think that the trunks, that the PSU for them can be found without problems ...
              2. 0
                11 September 2019
                The same saigas and boars 7.62 and 5.45 are rifled, inexpensively massively angry and there is a lot of cartridge for partisans then.
            3. 0
              10 September 2019
              Suitable, but before it you need to own 5 years smooth.
              1. 0
                10 September 2019
                They wanted to reduce it to 3 years ...
                The familiar "paradox" is used as a "part of the dtk" since on expensive dtk, in order to remove, you need those dances with a tambourine, he simply fixed the dtk on the paradox and winds up-removes quickly, for myself I don't see any sense in the paradox, and so the barrel is long, 70 meters gets shot, especially with container ones. Rather, all these attachments are for fanatics of weapons, who just have something to hang.
          4. 0
            10 September 2019
            Quote: rocket757
            Quote: polar fox
            the bulk of those who buy TCM are not hunters at all. They are people who piously believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation"

            Those. is this weapon for potential "partisans" and others who are dissatisfied with something?

            This is a weapon that minimizes 5 experience to rifled weapons.
          5. +3
            10 September 2019
            It is not suitable for partisans - you can’t get cartridges from the enemy, and even more so, you can’t buy cartridges in case of anything.
            1. 0
              10 September 2019
              Quote: puzoter
              It is not suitable for partisans - you can’t get ammunition from the enemy, and even more so, you can’t buy ammunition

              Gold words. good
          6. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: rocket757
            Those. is this weapon for potential "partisans" and others who are dissatisfied with something?

            All this breaks down on the "non-proliferation" and high cost of ammunition, it is easier to wait 5 years. wink
            1. +2
              11 September 2019
              Quote: Tank Hard
              All this breaks down on the "non-proliferation" and high cost of ammunition, it's easier to wait 5 years

              Why then this noise? Things of limited use, small distribution.
              Why are you so bothered?
              Unclear.
              1. +1
                11 September 2019
                Quote: rocket757
                Why then this noise? Things of limited use, small distribution.
                Why are you so bothered?
                Unclear

                Here I am ... It remains only to build guesses, but guesses are not facts ... request
        2. +1
          10 September 2019
          Quote: polar fox
          Quote: rocket757
          Hunters, what do you say.

          the bulk that buy TCM are not hunters at all. These are people who piously believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation" and what will happen next "will be very good." They are preparing for improvements, so to speak. give away with bullets.

          the bulk of those who buy TCM are not hunters at all. They are people who firmly believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation

          Buy it in order to at least somehow minimize rifled weapons.
          1. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            Buy it in order to at least somehow minimize rifled weapons.

            Minimize WHAT? In the sense of counteracting such (partisans) or what would not try to get hold of real military weapons?
            1. +1
              10 September 2019
              Quote: rocket757
              Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
              Buy it in order to at least somehow minimize rifled weapons.

              Minimize WHAT? In the sense of counteracting such (partisans) or what would not try to get hold of real military weapons?

              Minimize 5 experience to acquire rifled weapons.
              1. 0
                10 September 2019
                Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                Minimize 5 experience to acquire rifled weapons.

                Honestly, not at all in the subject, not a hunter ..... it seemed to me that rifled only professional hunters are allowed, which employees. After all, they need to work and work.
                Again, I suppose that a hunting rifle, rifled, is not military according to its characteristics .... of course you can use it, but then the stool is also a military weapon! How many goals suffered from it.
                1. +1
                  10 September 2019
                  For 5 years you have been walking with smoothbore weapons, and after that, you can only buy rifled (anyone can buy rifled weapons, which is allowed by our law), while waiting for a five-year experience, you can limit yourself to “Lancaster” / “paradoxes”.
                  Again, I suppose that a hunting rifle, rifled, is not military according to its characteristics .... of course you can use it, but then the stool is also a military weapon! How many goals suffered from it.

                  And from the knife, much more losses.
                  1. 0
                    10 September 2019
                    On the same moose, wild boar, you can go with a smooth one without any attachments, but in any case, you need to cut a bear onto a bear ...
                    1. 0
                      11 September 2019
                      in any case, a rifled bear ...

                      Not necessary! can also be smooth, you can use a bullet or buckshot.
                      1. 0
                        11 September 2019
                        An acquaintance hunts, he says, and if you don't kill your brain right away, it was that the brain was pierced from .300, then it passed another half a kilometer, I would not even dare to go to him with my "boar".
                        But the moose took 12x76 without problems under the scapula.
                        1. 0
                          11 September 2019
                          If you are talking about a moose carbine, then it comes in calibres of 7,62 and 9,3 mm, 308win. And in the caliber 12x76 no, it is a smoothbore cartridge (magnum).
                  2. 0
                    10 September 2019
                    In fact, the main plus of such weapons is less responsibility and hemorrhoids in general. For example, he gave a comrade to the SCS to hold it until he went to the wind - a criminal article, but almost the same, but Lancaster is just an administrator. Well, the Rosgvardia will not part with checks and seal the safe during various events.
                2. +1
                  10 September 2019
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Honestly, not at all in the subject, not a hunter ..... it seemed to me that rifled only professional hunters are allowed

                  They say that the rifled type 7,63x39, gives a lot of wounded animals on the hunt, and 366 tkm - not. But here let the hunters answer professionally, I am not one, I just heard the opinion. request
                  1. +1
                    11 September 2019
                    Quote: Tank Hard
                    They say that the rifled type 7,63x39, gives a lot of wounded animals on the hunt, and 366 tkm - not.

                    I've heard / read this. Smooth, sharp bullet pass right through, it's easy! But the Jacques, for example, a stopping, lethal action, at close range is almost absolute! With its weight and diameter, this is understandable!
                    Then, smooth-bore, this distance is almost point blank !!! A rifled allows you to get from afar .... here and an experienced hunter misses!
                    1. 0
                      11 September 2019
                      The owners write that at 200 meters the accuracy is 7,62 and
                      The 336TKM is practically the same, so from a distance with such a smooth barrel it is quite possible to shoot no worse than a rifled one.
                      1. +1
                        11 September 2019
                        Quote: puzoter
                        The owners write that at 200 meters the accuracy is 7,62 and
                        The 336TKM is practically the same, so from a distance with such a smooth barrel it is quite possible to shoot no worse than a rifled one.

                        Normal distance, but still close. For hunting norms.
        3. +3
          10 September 2019
          Quote: polar fox
          the bulk of those who buy TCM are not hunters at all. They are people who firmly believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation" and what will happen next "will be very good."

          According to my observations, faith in a bright future has nothing to do with it. Just an interesting toy (in a good way): almost-Kalash or almost-SVD (in the case of TG3). Partisaning with these calibers is not particularly productive: patrons are expensive (366TKM is three times more expensive than 7.62x39), and it’s more difficult to find them in the Bryansk forests))
          1. -1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: Kalmar
            finding them harder in the Bryansk forests

            In the woods, you can look for old warehouses / burials! In our cities / towns, some are arming themselves. WHAT FOR?
            1. +9
              10 September 2019
              Quote: rocket757
              In our cities / towns, some are arming themselves. WHAT FOR?

              Anecdote (not) to the topic:
              “Professor, why do animals lick their eggs?”
              - Because they can!


              Oh, this "WHY" ... Him, this "why", you can in fact subject everything. Why a cool cell phone? Why a private car? Why is a three-room apartment closer to the metro? And so gradually you realize that a normal person only needs to be happy, that a work robe and a box to rest after work. Kylo will be given out on the spot.

              Why why. And then! Well, people want to, well, let them be. I also have a gun at home - just like that, I just like it, and I also shoot at the shooting range from it at the shooting range. Also just like that, for your own pleasure. I don’t see anything bad about it: I spend time in the fresh air, I support the domestic manufacturer (I buy cartridges and all that).
              1. +1
                10 September 2019
                Quote: Kalmar
                Well, people want to, well, let them be.

                NO PROBLEM!!! In terms of carcass, statistics show that cars re-puff the whole arsenal of the country!
                It is clear that the most stringent rules / restrictions do not save from tragedies .... the question is not about that, but about a specific type of weapon and ammunition! The rationality of their use .... I see no particular reason to limit it to them! If they are considered especially dangerous, let them write the rules, clear rules for use!
                Just a ban does not bring any benefit! My point is nothing more.
                1. 0
                  10 September 2019
                  Quote: rocket757
                  If they are considered especially dangerous, let them write the rules, clear rules for use!

                  Yes, that's how everything was invented and written a long time ago. In fact, everything revolves around the old legislative notion that a person cannot be entrusted with a rifled barrel if he has not had a smooth dust in his safe for 5 years. Homo deputies felt sad that there was a way to somehow get around this administrative barrier.

                  Quote: rocket757
                  Just a ban does not bring any benefit!

                  Will bring. Some legislator will hang a virtual medal on his apron for protecting the citizens of our great country from themselves by his willful decision. Fortunately, our population is accustomed to fearing itself, so the electorate may even appreciate it.
                  1. +1
                    10 September 2019
                    Quote: Kalmar
                    that a person cannot be entrusted with a rifled barrel if he has not had smooth dust in his safe for 5 years.

                    Up to 25 (50) meters (and in the city the distances are not particularly large), any smooth caliber, especially 12 with a buckshot and especially a semiautomatic device with a magazine of 5 rounds, can give odds to a rifled one (scatter of buckshots can level individual protection), but that’s IMHO. request
        4. +2
          10 September 2019
          Quote: polar fox
          Quote: rocket757
          Hunters, what do you say.

          the bulk that buy TCM are not hunters at all. These are people who piously believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation" and what will happen next "will be very good." They are preparing for improvements, so to speak. give away with bullets.

          Bullshit, it's easier to buy a rifled barrel!
          1. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: neri73-r
            the bulk of those who buy TCM are not hunters at all. They are people who piously believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation"

            Well for us "old men" my old "Izh" bezkurkovka 12 cal. and KO-44, the beginning of the 60s, are relatives for me, but for the guys who have already grown up on new models, for them it is archaism. So to each his own. But I like the new models, it's nice to hold and press your cheek.
      2. +3
        10 September 2019
        Quote: rocket757
        Our vigil, is that not given?

        Yes to them? that "Fittings" and "Remingtons" will fit them and "Sauer Three Rings". They won't even wear domestic slippers for them from Cardin.
        1. 0
          10 September 2019
          Quote: tihonmarine
          Quote: rocket757
          Our vigil, is that not given?

          Yes to them? that "Fittings" and "Remingtons" will fit them and "Sauer Three Rings". They won't even wear domestic slippers for them from Cardin.

          This is not about being vigilant, this is not a leading one! Just those who work on the "land", who monitor the observance of the rules!
          Maybe they have the opportunity, some, but not so much that "Sauers" would buy elite and they wear ordinary slippers.
    3. +8
      10 September 2019
      First of all, the material touches on the draft law “On Amending the Federal Law“ On Weapons ””, submitted on June 27 of 2019 at a meeting of the working group created by the State Duma’s Committee on Security and Anti-Corruption under the leadership of Alexander Khinshtein.

      Khinshtein Sasha completely "froze" his brains while he was an adviser in the National Guard fool
      1. +11
        10 September 2019
        As for Khinshtein’s brains, do not flatter him, they have never been there, only language and a desire to curry favor for money
    4. +17
      10 September 2019
      Until approximately 1975, there were no problems with smoothbore hunting rifles. Then they decided to register. Then they decided that only after passing a physical examination you can become the owner of a weapon. Then only the criminal record. In general, it is only a structure and order that collects money. If everything is canceled and returns to order before 1975, money will be saved on the LRO apparatus - there will be fewer of them, let the premium pistols be considered (and it’s not clear why rifled barrels are needed - there is little doubt against this.) When the statistics show, in the first place is the kitchen knife , then a car and only in an incomprehensible place - a smooth-bore considered barrel. According to statistics, for the year 992 hooliganism with weapons was read - without casualties.
      Therefore, it is worth noting that smooth-bore weapons - do not stand in the first place among those who bring crimes and deaths. Therefore, all that concerns hunters with smoothbore weapons - everything must be canceled. Everything is far-fetched.
      1. 0
        10 September 2019
        When statistics are shown, in the first place is a kitchen knife, then a car, and only in an incomprehensible place, a smooth-bore considered barrel.
        These statistics are directly related to the number of kitchen knives / cars / smoothbore per capita.
        1. +8
          10 September 2019
          Quote: Less
          These statistics are directly related to the number of kitchen knives / cars / smoothbore per capita.

          The population has about 10 times more cars than trunks (smooth and rough). Under the wheels of a car, according to the traffic police, about 1000 people die every month. From legal weapons - I don’t remember exactly, there were about 500 incidents per year (not only deaths).

          Plus, you need to understand that kitchen knives and cars are everywhere, and weapons are only allowed in certain places. As a result, in theory, it is necessary to monitor strictly more precisely the knives and machines, but in fact - vice versa.
      2. +4
        10 September 2019
        Quote: lambert
        there will be a savings on the LRO apparatus

        There is a feeling that no one has such a trite goal. If you get strong, you can always save on a social network (all sorts of pensioners, doctors, teachers, etc., as usual).
    5. +4
      10 September 2019
      They don’t forbid me ... all this is new-fashioned toys - I have a Sauer shotgun in my safe, Izhevsk self-loading, Lynx and like a cherry on a cake - my Tiger cub. ... he needs to go to arrange spa treatments and massage with oil ..
      1. +3
        10 September 2019
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        They don’t forbid me ... all this is new-fashioned toys - I have a Sauer shotgun in my safe, Izhevsk self-loading, Lynx and like a cherry on a cake - my Tiger cub. ... he needs to go to arrange spa treatments and massage with oil ..

        It’s easy for you to say so * Don't be banned * because you don’t have them, and if you have 15 of them in the safe, then you’ll begin to evaluate the situation differently.
        1. +2
          10 September 2019
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          It’s easy for you to say that * Don't be banned * because you don’t have them

          Wow .. At one time six months went in doubt - to buy or not. Then, nevertheless, the rational got the upper hand over the emotional - for low-hunting, and for the booth with fun - ammo expensive.
          1. +1
            10 September 2019
            Quote: KVU-NSVD
            Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            It’s easy for you to say that * Don't be banned * because you don’t have them

            Wow .. At one time six months went in doubt - to buy or not. Then, nevertheless, the rational got the upper hand over the emotional - for low-hunting, and for the booth with fun - ammo expensive.

            While you have not bought rifled weapons and are waiting for 5 years of experience, “Lancaster / Paradox” replaces it well. Cartridges yes, they are really expensive, and the factories that produce them are also limited, hence the price tag is too high.
            1. +4
              10 September 2019
              Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
              and wait 5 years

              Five years is not so much, you can wait. And in general, of course, those who are dissatisfied with such decisions are somewhat right. The habit of approaching problem solving according to the principle of "keep and not let go" instead of reasonable regulation is not the best feature in the management tradition of our country.
              1. +1
                10 September 2019
                I think people are 3 years old more than enough to get comfortable with the use of weapons and buy rifled, especially at a close distance 12 will be more dangerous than rifled ...
      2. +5
        10 September 2019
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        They don’t forbid me ... all this is new-fashioned toys - I have a Sauer shotgun in my safe, Izhevsk self-loading, Lynx and like a cherry on a cake - my Tiger cub. ... he needs to go to arrange spa treatments and massage with oil ..

        At first they came for the socialists, and I was silent - because I was not a socialist.
        Then they came for union members, and I was silent - because I was not a union member.
        Then they came for the Jews, and I was silent - because I was not a Jew.
        Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
        When they forbid non-members of EP to own rifled weapons or even prohibit a smoothbore, since there are at least 3 ways to spin a bullet in a smooth barrel without Lancaster and paradox, while singing?
        1. 0
          10 September 2019
          Thank you for quoting Remarque, it’s nice to meet a well-read person, but applying the quote about the rise of Nazism to changes to the law on weapons is somehow tense and ... pompous or something .. hi
    6. +3
      10 September 2019
      This is some kind of horror! Every year, it’s getting worse and worse in weapons legislation. In addition, the State Duma introduced a law under which, a citizen who has 5 weapons (if less than 5, it will be unnecessary to do this) will have to signal safe, access to private security. Thus, we can say that they are trying to limit people from weapons. And with the help of "Lancaster" / "paradoxes", it was possible to instill skills for rifled weapons, and for this purpose they promoted him. And about what kind of weapons culture can be discussed, and how then can it be instilled in people if there is a complete ban on this.
    7. +8
      10 September 2019
      Well, delights are understandable, they generally don’t like it when the population has weapons in any form. Because cat feels whose meat is eaten.
      And they understand that sooner or later they will receive gratitude from the people for their activities, so they are trying to disarm him, even contrary to common sense.
    8. +1
      10 September 2019
      Deputies are afraid and not only ...
      And here is such a simple means to ban.
      To drag and not let go
    9. +1
      10 September 2019
      Well, these deputies to Kudykina Gora. I would generally allow a rifled automatic in free sale right down to guns of battleships and multiple-launch fire systems (by the way, is there a smooth trunk where to get?)
      And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.
      1. 0
        10 September 2019
        Quote: jayich
        Well, these deputies to Kudykina Gora. I would generally allow a rifled automatic in free sale right down to guns of battleships and multiple-launch fire systems (by the way, is there a smooth trunk where to get?)
        And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

        Then wrap me with Aurora, and even better Dolgoruky (let me put a monument not only in the USSR, but also in the states)
    10. +2
      10 September 2019
      Quote: polar fox
      according to the American proverb: if they came for your property, start giving back with bullets.

      Need to remember!
    11. +2
      10 September 2019
      Quote: jayich
      And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

      Of this they and be afraid. I'm still surprised how I still manage to defend my right to a "smoothbore", because a twelfth caliber at a short distance is a terrible weapon ...
      1. +4
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Brylevsky
        for the twelfth caliber at short range is a terrible weapon ...

        Well, 12 "caliber only from 0 to 255 cables is a terrible weapon
      2. +1
        10 September 2019
        Quote: Brylevsky
        Quote: jayich
        And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

        Of this they and be afraid. I'm still surprised how I still manage to defend my right to a "smoothbore", because a twelfth caliber at a short distance is a terrible weapon ...

        How tired already- "they are afraid!" ...
        First they write about # they’ll be afraid, then right there they write about a short distance .... you are closer to which deputy 100 meters with smoothbore rifle plan to approach? !!! nonsense ....

        If power at least a bit I was afraid first if it were her, she would seize the Tigers (in the name of the SVD) and KO-44 (in the name of the carbine in 1891/30) .Then all the variations around the SCS, and then everything else ....

        And here comes the reverse process ... just wrapping up the controls ...
        I completely agree with the opinion that it’s stupid. It would be much more logical to equate it to a rifled one.
        those who own a long time to establish conditions for both rifled, and for only acquired and short experience, a limitation for storage and use
    12. +5
      10 September 2019
      I think that the law is connected not with ordinary criminal offenses or accidents, but with the fear that the people are armed, so they are trying to seize the widespread weapons that are somehow close to rifled.
      The rifled on the hands is still much smaller, and getting it harder.
      https://mp3cc.biz/m/565817-viktor-ryabov/36461432-maksim/
    13. +3
      10 September 2019
      Pdrsy. Who exactly I will not say, but you yourself will guess.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    14. +4
      10 September 2019
      Quote: 210ox
      In general, I would like to know my "heroes" by surname


      The main, as can be seen from the article, A. Hinstein ...
    15. +3
      10 September 2019
      Quote: rocket757
      Hunters, what do you say.

      BMT is only for post-shootings (who do not want to leave with a smoothbore and wait 5 years), in Russia there are no big problems in obtaining a license for rifled weapons .., which in most cases does not need a smoothbore, almost all tasks are covered except for shooting on paper (very many people are now fond of this). And many with Lancaster buy SCS and AKM (the price is more or less ozumny) for the soul and go a couple of times to the shooting range ..
      In general, this attempt to ban the Lancaster is insanity, the population has a lot of licensed weapons as it is .. It looks like they will soon get to a smooth one ..
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 0
        10 September 2019
        It seems that soon they will get to smooth ..

        Already starting
    16. -1
      10 September 2019
      Quote: Avior
      get it harder

      Not harder. It is only necessary to have 5 years of smooth experience ...
      1. 0
        10 September 2019
        Quote: paul3390
        Quote: Avior
        get it harder

        Not harder. It is only necessary to have 5 years of smooth experience ...

        Well, yes, if you live in the city, and if in the area, then there will be a lot of problems. Every five years, it’s necessary to carry rifled weapons to the shooting, and for many this is very problematic.
    17. +5
      10 September 2019
      Quote: vnord
      It seems that soon they will get to smooth ..

      They'll get there. If we ourselves give up our ownership of it. We'll squirt something and grab it, as always ... Yes, only if some of the most "rabid" deputy, or someone else, someone decides to "roll over", then the absence of a hunting rifle will not become a serious hindrance, - I hope they understand this? Or, in this case, it is necessary to prohibit the sale of piercing and cutting objects, axes, cars, and also not to teach children at the school of physics and chemistry, so that, God forbid, they could not create black powder in the living conditions or make hunting bow with arrows...
    18. 0
      10 September 2019
      Tighten the law, the arms business will go into the shadows.
    19. +4
      10 September 2019
      It is noted that the bill, the criticism of which most of the article is devoted to, provides for the removal of smooth-bore guns, when fired from which the bullet acquires rotational motion.
      A vivid illustration of the level of thinking of deputies - lawmakers.
      According to this criterion, all hunting weapons will have to be withdrawn, since turbine-type bullets (Shtedenbach, Mayer, Power) gain rotational movement even when firing from classic hunting rifles with cylindrical drill trunks.
      But what about gun owners who have a choke as a standard, integral drill bit? Sawing off the trunk? And some have such "paradoxes".
      So there will be practically no weapons in circulation. We'll have to switch to stag beetles.
      1. +1
        10 September 2019
        shh! don't tell them
    20. -5
      10 September 2019
      I personally, for a complete ban on weapons.
    21. +2
      10 September 2019
      Quote: ultra
      I personally, for a complete ban on weapons.

      Feel free to ask why?
      1. 0
        11 September 2019
        We have bullets left and right from injuries and pneumatics, and even if the short barrels are allowed, I’m afraid to imagine what will happen.
    22. +1
      10 September 2019
      Probably it all depends on the consciousness and mentality of citizens. We have a strict weapons law, the police are not armed (only an armed police unit has weapons). The attitude to weapons in society is negative. Like weapons - go to the army. So what? Yesterday in the news - a shootout, two were killed. In Switzerland, citizens have so many weapons that it is not clear why such a quantity. Shooting is a folk obsession, outdoor activities, and a matter of pride. The use of weapons in crimes they do not have. What kind of attitude to weapons in your society, such laws promote.
    23. -1
      10 September 2019
      Quote: your1970
      Are you planning to approach a deputy closer than 100 meters with a shotgun? !!! nonsense

      I AM? I’m not planning on anyone. Are you out of your mind to discuss such topics in a public forum?
      1. 0
        11 September 2019
        Quote: Brylevsky
        I?
        -you quote a person who
        Quote: jayich
        Well, these deputies to Kudykina Gora. I would generally allow a rifled automatic in free sale right down to guns of battleships and multiple-launch fire systems (by the way, is there a smooth trunk where to get?)
        And what the government got sick of it, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

        and it you discuss
        Quote: Brylevsky
        similar topics in a public forum?

        something like this ...
        Squeals got me # they are afraid and exactly absence I commented on such fear
    24. +1
      10 September 2019
      And we Kazakhs even pneumatics identity now through garbage must be issued. Here are such things.
    25. 0
      10 September 2019
      prohibit it will not prohibit. but talk of classifying Lancaster guns as rifles has been going on for a second year ...
      On the one hand, nonsense, of course, is another. And on the other hand, there is a rational grain here: the same 366 TKM (if I don’t confuse it with 9 mm Lancaster) has cartridges with shot in the container instead of a bullet. And some owners use it for poaching - in one store it’s kind of like a shot for a duck, and the other is equipped with bullets so that someone bigger could shoot
    26. AAK
      +3
      10 September 2019
      I suppose this is something else ... Under the lid of the "pot" it is already gurgling in full, if something happens - it might jerk ... Taking up axes and pitchforks is no longer modern, and this pack is very afraid of weapons in the hands of the people. .. Therefore - and a categorical veto on civilian rifled weapons, and "squeezing out" (reduction in the number) of ordinary hunters (as strata of persons who have at least some kind of weapon), and problems with the registration of hunting "rifled", and now they are trying to limit the ability to have more or less serious ammunition from the "smoothbore", and the barrels themselves ... So, what is being done is only because of the fear of the future on the part of certain circles ...
      1. 0
        11 September 2019
        That's about it.
    27. +2
      10 September 2019
      Quote: Cat Man Null
      Why should the "power" be afraid of the "people" armed with smooth-bore pukals?

      Pukalka also shoots, not to mention rifled hunting weapons.
    28. +1
      10 September 2019
      I wonder what happens if you connect the BOPS with a smooth-bore 12 gauge? bully
      1. 0
        10 September 2019
        Quote: sharp-lad
        What happens if you connect the BOPS with a smoothbore 12 caliber?

        Starling.

        I am concerned about the issue:
        Why does the starling whistle?
        - From being light
        Very very
        And flies wherever he wants.
        - Wants!
        1. 0
          11 September 2019
          Sub-caliber ammunition is not only for tank guns. And under 12 gauge it’s not difficult to grind a bullet and a detachable pallet having a lathe. It would be a desire.
    29. -1
      11 September 2019
      Power is in your repertoire. At first, everyone was obliged to stick the "Ш" sign on the car, and after a year and a half it became unnecessary, since "this law has lost its relevance." The cat, when he has nothing to do, licks the koki. And the deputies give birth to ingenious bills ...
    30. 0
      11 September 2019
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The deputies have nothing to do. The pension reform is being promoted, or the 4-day week. And then they took up the firearms. They don't like Lancaster! You ask why ... They won't answer. laughing

      Because this Lancaster is comparable in combat quality to a fully rifled barrel, and in fact the appearance of small-caliber weapons with a drill, Lancaster is a trick to buy rifled weapons without five years of smoothbore ownership
    31. -1
      11 September 2019
      Quote: ultra
      We have bullets left and right from injuries and pneumatics, and even if the short barrels are allowed, I’m afraid to imagine what will happen.

      A polite society is an armed society. In such a society, everyone, before saying or doing something that contradicts the norms of human morality, will think a hundred times - whether he needs it, because it is fraught with consequences. If I pressed the trigger, then I thought. "In this life we ​​can do whatever we want, if then we are ready to answer for our actions."
    32. 0
      11 September 2019
      It looks like the following is the case: a revolution is brewing in the country. Whether it will or not is the tenth thing. But the Master is getting ready. What is a revolution? This is an armed uprising. Armed! It is clear that with the current capabilities of the special services, the "steamer with English rifles" will not come to St. Petersburg. One of the alternative options is the self-arming of citizens. Yes, we have many hunters. And getting permission for a smooth barrel is pretty easy. But you can't fight a smooth one, you need a rifled one. A rifle permit can be obtained no earlier than after 5 years of perfect possession of a smooth barrel. And it is extremely difficult to break the terms (for example, for a bribe). For example, I did not succeed.) And if the people decide that they urgently need to arm themselves, they will not be able to do it legally. Almost can't ... The fact is that the weapon chambered for .336TKM, .345TK, .366 Magnum and 9,6 / 53 Lancaster is considered smooth-bore! Moreover, it has performance characteristics similar to the Kalash. That is, with a weapon chambered for the Kalashnikov cartridge 39 * 45. And it is freely sold to novice hunters who have just received a license to buy a smooth barrel and do not have five years of experience. I think this is the whole point of the draft law. Do not allow the People to quickly arm themselves with relatively high-quality weapons.
      1. xax
        +2
        12 September 2019
        Quote: Understanding
        revolution is ripening in the country

        So that's why they want to ban the restoration of armored cars! )))
    33. 0
      11 September 2019
      Some representatives of the authorities seem to be starting a persecution mania, apparently they feel that it is not worth it for ordinary people to have some types of weapons. But no matter what happens, people are already afraid!
    34. 0
      11 September 2019
      Some kind of stupidity. Money nowhere to go? I didn’t buy such weapons, but I don’t support any creeps for withdrawal and prohibition. Moreover, it is necessary to authorize the sale of the COP. IMHO
    35. xax
      +3
      11 September 2019
      1. Let me remind you that this movement with lancaster / paradox was not started by some artisans, but rather serious guys from Kalashnikov and Rostec.
      2. It is quite obvious that these drills were attached to the smoothbore using the holes in our weapons legislation. And everyone knows that the gaps in the legislation, which are beginning to be used too clearly, will sooner or later be eliminated by the authorities.
      Attention to the question: putting a bunch of dough in the development of trunks with these drillings and starting production for ten thousand workers, could the guys from such serious organizations not think about what sooner or later they could cover this shop? Could they, having access to the very top, not be safe and not get any information on how the authorities intend to relate to such trunks in the future?
      I think no. Could not. And they asked who it was necessary, and planned their activities taking into account the views of the authorities on this issue.
      Then what is happening now? - you ask? Or maybe it was intended? - I will answer.
      And what: they developed, sold at least until the loopholes closed, received compensation from the budget for the development, also received lost profits from there. Moreover, compensation and lost profits can be declared such that you can’t earn on real sales of these weapons for 200 years. It’s quite a profitable business, only buyers and taxpayers are in the way.

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