Military Review

Gunsmiths criticize bill banning part of smoothbore weapons

141
New “anti-weapons” laws on “Lancaster” / “paradoxes” proposed by deputies of the State Duma threaten the dismissal of up to 10 people, and the loss of the Russian armory industry will be in the billions. This is the official position of the Russian Arms Union, voiced in an article published in the journal Kalashnikov.




The magazine "Kalashnikov" posted Article, sharply criticizing a number of initiatives restricting / prohibiting the sale of smoothbore firearms, as well as prohibiting or tightening the conditions for the purchase of .366 TKM, .366 Magnum, 9,6 / 53 Lancaster and .345 TK cartridges.

The article, drawing on the consequences of a number of initiatives of the State Duma deputies related to the circulation of civilian weapons, emphasizes that all the proposals made can cause a serious blow to the industry and cause multibillion-dollar losses.

In my opinion, in this case we encountered some kind of deputy extremism and the time has come to calmly, carefully and formally respond to the current situation to the participants of the Russian arms market who are vitally interested in its development.

- commented on the situation the chief editor of the magazine Mikhail Degtyarev.

Multibillion-dollar loss to industry and budget


First of all, the material touches on the draft law “On Amending the Federal Law“ On Weapons ””, submitted on June 27 of 2019 at a meeting of the working group created by the State Duma’s Committee on Security and Anti-Corruption under the leadership of Alexander Khinshtein.

It is noted that the bill, the criticism of which most of the article is devoted to, provides for the removal of smooth-bore guns, when fired from which the bullet acquires rotational motion. Only today, tens of thousands of “trunks” of this type are in the hands of the population. To compensate, the owners of the federal budget will have to allocate about 1 000 000 000 rubles.

In addition, the initiative outlaws barrel extensions, “chock” and “pay” nozzles, and weapon barrels into which such extensions are already integrated. According to the Union of Russian Armsmakers, some 150 000 units of such weapons are currently in circulation. In this case, the amount of compensation may reach 10 billion rubles.

Costs will be borne by consumers


The deputy initiative prohibits the cartridges .336ТКМ, .345ТК, .366 Magnum and 9,6 / 53 Lancaster: they were developed by Russian enterprises without raising budget funds, and, according to the law, developers will again have to receive compensation.

But most importantly, all bans threaten the dismissal of 10 to thousands of workers in the industry (many with higher education), cause it the most severe financial damage, the lost profit of arms distribution networks in Russia will reach 300 000 000 000 rubles (20-percent VAT will also not go to income state), and a large part of the costs of implementing deputy ideas will again fall on the shoulders of the consumer.
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  1. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 10 September 2019 08: 44 New
    +38
    The deputies have nothing to do. They are promoting pension reform, then a 4-day week. And then they took up a firearm. "Lancaster" they do not like! You ask why ... After all, they will not answer. laughing
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 10 September 2019 08: 53 New
      +11
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      MPs have nothing to do

      Campaign, deputy hit over Kalashnikov. You look, and the rollback will be cut down. FSB, ooo-oooo !!

      A joke, but ... wink
      1. 210ox
        210ox 10 September 2019 09: 29 New
        +13
        In general, I would like to know my "heroes" surname
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 10 September 2019 10: 18 New
          +48
          Quote: 210ox
          In general, I would like to know my "heroes" surname

          "Heroes" are known to us.
          For example, here list of laws adopted with the filing of EdRa for the autumn-spring session of 2017-18:

          1. The law on increasing value added tax (VAT) from 18% to 20%.
          2. The law on raising the retirement age in the first reading.
          3. The law on Russian offshore zones for international holding companies.
          4. The law on increasing the state duty for the issuance of foreign passports and driver's licenses of a new generation.
          5. The bill on the creation of a separate resort base for Russian judges.
          6. Law on abuse of the right to rallies in the first reading.
          7. A package of amendments to federal legislation that vested the president with exclusive powers.
          8. The law on the introduction of duties for citizens when purchasing goods in any foreign online stores in the first reading.
          9. A law that permits the registration of migrants in non-residential premises.
          10. A law that allows citizens of Russia to collect deadwood “for their own needs”.

          A total of 10 laws of which none, except the mocking law on the collection of dead wood, can not be called national. The law on pensions is openly anti-people, while others in one way or another worsen the life of the people of Russia.
          And here is a list of 16 laws that edros did not miss during this session:

          1. The bill on strengthening parliamentary control over the activities of state-owned companies and state corporations.
          2. The bill, which proposed to equate the salaries of senators and deputies to the national average - 35 thousand rubles.
          3. The bill on illegal enrichment.
          4. The bill banning the holding of key positions for persons with or having a criminal record who has been prosecuted for corruption.
          5. Amendments to the Criminal Code which proposed to toughen the punishment for theft with significant damage and mitigate it for minor thefts.
          6. Four bills on the transition to a progressive scale for personal income tax.
          7. A bill prohibiting close relatives from simultaneously working in the State Duma or the Federation Council.
          8. The bill on the restoration of state control over the Central Bank.
          9. The bill, which obliges the relatives of corrupt officials to compensate for the damage.
          10. The bill on the provision of state support to citizens below the poverty line.
          11. Bill on additional material support for the disabled.
          12. The bill on the distribution of part of the income from mining between citizens of Russia.
          13. A bill to limit the level of salary payments to coaches and athletes in the event of retirement from competitions at their early stages.
          14. The bill on state regulation of food prices, limiting price increases.
          15. The bill on the restoration of indexation of pensions to working pensioners.

          As we see, not a single law that is necessary for the people or infringing on the rights of oligarchs and officials by the United Russia party has been adopted. And this is only in one year! hi
          1. krot
            krot 10 September 2019 14: 43 New
            +5
            Ummm ... That’s how I understand my Boar-Hammer just falls under the article because of interchangeable checks and half-checks integrated in the barrel .. Somehow I don’t really want to part with it .. (
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 10 September 2019 09: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Cat Man Null
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        MPs have nothing to do

        Campaign, deputy hit over Kalashnikov. You look, and the rollback will be cut down. FSB, ooo-oooo !!

        A joke, but ... wink

        The power of the armed people is afraid, for no hour we will hunt only with bows, we already have a law.
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 10 September 2019 09: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: RUSS
          Quote: Cat Man Null
          Quote: Mountain Shooter
          MPs have nothing to do

          Campaign, deputy hit over Kalashnikov. You look, and the rollback will be cut down. FSB, ooo-oooo !!

          A joke, but ... wink

          The power of the armed people is afraid, for no hour we will hunt only with bows, we already have a law.

          Just ordinary deputy nonsense, by the principle - something needs to be offered.
          1. krot
            krot 10 September 2019 14: 45 New
            +4
            ordinary deputy nonsense

            It is possible that they are right! Our deputies can not always boast of a clear mind .. But it is a pity that we choose such.
            1. neri73-r
              neri73-r 11 September 2019 00: 39 New
              +2
              Quote: krot
              It’s a pity that we choose these.

              We do not select them; these are technologies, marketing. Oddly enough, they choose for us and for us. They are not responsible for their words in the elections, then what's the point of putting a tick? The winner is the one who has the most money for the campaign, for advertising in particular. These are Western technologies for controlling colonies and for controlling the population in the West itself, people who are in the shade make real decisions, as a rule, we don’t know them at all. Presidents and premieres only voice them. Alas. We have a little wrong now, not so in China and S. Korea, Iran, Cuba and, probably, that’s all. We were able to get away from total control by the West through elections, which infuriates the West, although for our people this is still like a dead poultice. The authorities do not reform this institution into the necessary form, but only use it for their own purposes.
        2. Cat man null
          Cat man null 10 September 2019 16: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: RUSS
          Fearing the power of the armed people

          That's who about what, and ... you are all about ... a bath.

          From what stump of “power” should one be afraid of a “people” armed with smooth-bore farts? With them against the AK - but just shoot yourself, I am silent that the "authorities" and more serious AK arguments request
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard 10 September 2019 20: 53 New
            +4
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            From what stump of “power” should one be afraid of a “people” armed with smooth-bore farts? With them against the AK - but just shoot yourself, I am silent that the "authorities" and more serious AK arguments

            The ban is all the more ridiculous ... request
        3. Tank hard
          Tank hard 10 September 2019 20: 52 New
          +4
          Quote: RUSS
          Fearing the power of the armed people, not an hour we will hunt only with bows,

          There are also bows - wow! And they can be banned. And for me, so-senility grows stronger. request
        4. meandr51
          meandr51 11 September 2019 20: 59 New
          0
          She is not afraid of anything. She has the Russian Guard, armed to the teeth, is. Just out of harm. They want to ban everything, as in Europe, so that everyone goes under the article.
      3. seregatara1969
        seregatara1969 12 September 2019 22: 35 New
        0
        SMERSH must be restored - oh, how it is!
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 10 September 2019 08: 55 New
      +10
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      "Lancaster" they do not like! You ask why ... After all, they will not answer.

      There was an opinion that the hunters themselves were to blame: they shouted too loudly that, they say, “lancaster” and “paradoxes” are almost not inferior to rifling. Looks like someone’s bright deputy’s head came up with the idea of ​​“not inferior” to fix it legislatively.

      But in general, everything is as always: as soon as something really new and interesting appeared (even with a slight pretension to be innovative), we immediately begin to struggle with this. It is sad that with this approach, the production of civilian weapons in our country will finally collapse (to the delight of our new friend - Turkey).
      1. Sergey10789
        Sergey10789 10 September 2019 12: 25 New
        +5
        That it is so stale. They are shoving frank shit on the market, which is still necessary to be finished with a file. I haven’t seen articles on finishing Binnel, Remington, Berett, but here are articles on finishing different Saigas, Verprey, TOZs and MROk a dime a dozen
        1. kostiknet
          kostiknet 10 September 2019 17: 38 New
          +2
          That's for sure. Himself on Saiga 20C was engaged in USM peeling. Well, the factory chip didn’t poke me when the shot doesn’t happen when the “hook” is pressed, but at the moment when you release it ... The quality from the factory is just super !!!fool
        2. Tank hard
          Tank hard 10 September 2019 20: 56 New
          +1
          Quote: Sergey10789
          Binels, Remington, Berett,

          It’s difficult and expensive with this ...
          Quote: Sergey10789
          and here are articles about dopilivaniya different Saig, Verprey, TOZov and MRok pond pond

          But its own and not so expensive, the ban on the Lancaster and the paradox is all the more pinned. wink
          1. Sergey10789
            Sergey10789 25 September 2019 11: 27 New
            0
            Come on! Benelka can be taken from scratch for up to 80 tr. and for that money you’re buying a gun and Benelli, not a stick-shooter
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 25 September 2019 16: 20 New
              0
              Quote: Sergey10789
              Benelka can be taken from scratch for up to 80 tr. and for that money you’re buying a gun and Benelli, not a stick-shooter

              Well, the rich have their quirks ... request
        3. tracer
          tracer 11 September 2019 16: 44 New
          -3
          I finished up with all my friends and myself, including Remington, from 700 to the floor of .223, .270 automatic rifles and 597 small things of all kinds. And parts in a friend in Russia sent them. Binelli, too, is still a siss ... money costs unmeasured quality so-so. Beretta .... love Beretta..good. But throw the Neos small gun into the trash right after the purchase .. (it was removed from the assembly line) .Tow, you don’t have to roll a barrel at our manufacturers .. They survive under the most difficult conditions.
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          2. Sergey10789
            Sergey10789 25 September 2019 11: 50 New
            0
            Something you, sir, your will, lying. ) Finished how ?! Oxidized? Changed the forearm / butt ?! Fastened the weaver straps ?! ))) This is not doping. Doping is when you try to bring an MP trunk that is crooked from the factory. When you are firing a chamber, what would a cartridge go into ... And a lot of a lot of things. I myself am the owner of a whole arsenal of imported weapons. And I came to him after owning two domestic trunks. And you know what I'll tell you? Patriotism is certainly good, but as regards weapons, it is not worthy even to be sold! (
            1. tracer
              tracer 25 September 2019 15: 42 New
              0
              In general, you are right. Even glassbedding is tuning, repairing 597 of the remington due to the striker striking the edge of the chamber is also a trifle, although you still have to bore a little differently the cartridge does not go into the chamber. It’s also little things in life. YES I remember, as I cut a 90 degree muzzle file with a file, Izh 27, it was beveled to the left. But I was pleased with him. Not looking for clumsy application. Poor-quality weapons for shooters and hunters are the atheism of the defenders of the late alliance. A good example is the ATAMAN company making excellent pneumatics.
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                1. Timeout
                  Timeout 26 September 2019 09: 48 New
                  0
                  Quote: tracer
                  Sooner or later you will have to answer for a bunch of lies and unfounded accusations

                  Again proof in the studio!
                  Quote: tracer
                  Here is a photo of the problem more precisely than one of.

                  Photo as photo. Only for some reason you can not see the lathe for boring. The owner of the trunk, most likely just fabulous before...person. The nature of the damage suggests that they shot at idle from the purchase. 99% that after a couple of hundred blank shots, the spring of the drummer was besieged, and he tightly stuck in the front position, and then finished off the breech. During normal shooting, this simply does not happen, because the firing pin strikes the edge of the sleeve. The combat output of the firing pin of small-caliber rifles for the shutter mirror is a maximum of 1 mm, the thickness of the edge of the sleeve is 1 mm., And the rivet on the breech is about 1,5 mm, which means that protrudes by a minimum of 2,5 mm, and the hardening is produced by the mass of the shutter + spring force. So, the "respected" photo does not apply to standard malfunctions of the 597 model and small-caliber rifles in general. Do not be surprised that this is your rifle ....
                  1. tracer
                    tracer 26 September 2019 13: 55 New
                    -1
                    Go on the gas and read about the malfunctions. Yes, to the very one where at one time you got everyone. You even in the eyes of the sand embankment you will still deny.
                    1. Timeout
                      Timeout 26 September 2019 17: 21 New
                      0
                      Quote: tracer
                      Go on the gas and read about the malfunctions

                      So you don’t go there negative
                      There they offend children!
      2. Nyrobsky
        Nyrobsky 10 September 2019 12: 31 New
        +1
        Quote: Kalmar
        There was an opinion that the hunters themselves were to blame: they shouted too loudly that, they say, “lancaster” and “paradoxes” are almost not inferior to rifling.

        At the end of the 60s, threaded trunks up to small things were withdrawn from civilian traffic. The presence of a rifling was allowed exclusively for professional hunters of fishers who handed over to the state the furs, game and animals they had obtained. The smoothbore was for amateurs who, in order to increase the range and give a rotational movement to the bullet, introduced ribs into the design of bullets (Brenneke, Mayer) or added a turbine shank (Poleva). In principle, knowing the capabilities of their guns and bullets, few people beat the beast and the bird beyond the bounds of a sure defeat, which was good because it produced few wounded animals, which were difficult to get and were wasted in vain, which already kept the animal population without introducing draconian prices licenses and permits. Now everyone has acquired rifling, "LOOSE ON LOOSE", peeling everything that moves. Without getting out of the car, through the window, they shoot everything that is within sight "from mouse to bear", not letting the males or the females descend. Sometimes it’s easy, while these “hunters” stomp from the car for game, they cannot find the tree from which the game fell. In the area of ​​roads soon there will be a completely sterile area from animals. That would be something for the deputies to attend to, limiting the use of rifling, and not smooth boreholes.
        1. meandr51
          meandr51 11 September 2019 21: 02 New
          0
          For some reason, Germany does not have this problem. There is a beast there, and hunting is cheaper than ours. They just know how to breed and keep order.
    3. Alexey from Perm
      Alexey from Perm 10 September 2019 09: 41 New
      +10
      Yes, because they’re afraid ..
    4. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 10 September 2019 09: 42 New
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      "Lancaster" they do not like! You ask why ... After all, they will not answer.

      But the krenushki guessed! Already answered! Answered that "provides for the removal of smooth-bore guns, when fired from which the bullet acquires rotational motion." yes
    5. cormorant
      cormorant 10 September 2019 09: 51 New
      +10
      ... After all, they will not answer.
      They worry about the people. After all, peasants will shoot each other. They will go out and shoot at someone without hitting them. They are our caring.
      1. Zhan
        Zhan 10 September 2019 11: 15 New
        +4
        Quote: cormorant
        ... After all, they will not answer.
        They worry about the people. After all, peasants will shoot each other. They will go out and shoot at someone without hitting them. They are our caring.

        hi
        Well, bolt them. If they begin, then only through grief to lawmakers.
    6. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 10 September 2019 10: 06 New
      +7
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The deputies have nothing to do. They are promoting pension reform, then 4-day week. And then they took up a firearm.

      There is no “Decree, order, break the guys!” Problem, the bulldozer came in a lot, iron was sold to metal, concrete was crumb, and there was no industry. And how many years, how much work and money were expended, and here, by a wave of the “magic wand” everything is in the “auger” .. We all laughed from the circus live from the Verkhovna Rada. It looks like the virus is transmitted through the air, and by telephone.
    7. AUL
      AUL 10 September 2019 11: 44 New
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The deputies have nothing to do.

      I wonder why they motivate such a decision? Are you afraid that they will be shot at overnight?
      1. tracer
        tracer 11 September 2019 19: 26 New
        -2
        It has been noted that it is liberalism that is most afraid of the armed population, and its own and it does not matter where.
    8. srelock
      srelock 10 September 2019 12: 34 New
      0
      These calibers simply move into rifled weapons. No one will suffer any losses. On existing trunks, you will need to get permission, which will take time.
    9. Popov Konstantin Ivanovich
      Popov Konstantin Ivanovich 10 September 2019 16: 00 New
      +2
      The answer is simple - the National Guard and those whom it defends are afraid of the armed people no . The desire to reserve, the right of a violent reaction to injustice in their sweaty shaking public servants and corruption pens. They want to leave the state monopoly i.e. seigneur on the use of force both in relation to slaves so between slaves i.e.. subjects.
      Armed (albeit in a truncated version) people is a community assessing the situation negative, including not being state military, but having military training of people, relatively able and able to use force soldier including and organized (armed), including against those in power. And after all, the "paradox" at close range is even nothing. relatively affordable price, the availability of ammunition and their manufacture, familiar form and ergonomics. Yes, we know him, almost from school good . Therefore, there is something to be afraid of, but for foreign trunks you can tear the price - Mom Do not Cry.
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 11 September 2019 21: 06 New
        0
        I do not believe. With a double-barreled shotgun on an armored personnel carrier against body armor and machine guns? It’s ridiculous. There are no precedents. In the event of a revolution, army units will fight among themselves. In extreme cases, the people will seize the arsenals. Like in Chechnya or the Donbass.
        Deputies act simply out of harm. So that the people even take away the illusion of freedom.
    10. Nadrub
      Nadrub 10 September 2019 20: 01 New
      +1
      Yes, the deputies have nothing to do with it, they threw off the crib from above the “office”, and now the deputies are just crowing parrots, which is ordered ... and no more
      People are afraid, and rightly so
    11. Catfish
      Catfish 11 September 2019 12: 25 New
      +1
      They just don’t know what Lancaster is. laughing And the rest: they just need to at least somehow try to justify their worthless existence, that is, they create the appearance of some kind of activity. All the same, no serious law can be passed without a command from above.

      Lord, how do you sometimes want to hear the famous Zheleznyakovsky: "The guard is tired!". soldier
  2. rocket757
    rocket757 10 September 2019 08: 46 New
    +9
    And what's that?
    Hunters, what do you say.
    In principle, it is easy to prohibit, because measures to ensure the CORRECT operation of any equipment, weapons, all the more, require a lot of intelligence and hard work !!! Our vigil, is that not given?
    1. polar fox
      polar fox 10 September 2019 08: 51 New
      +14
      Quote: rocket757
      Hunters, what do you say.

      the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. They are people who firmly believe in a “bright life in the Russian Federation” and what’s next “will be very good.” They are preparing for improvements, so to speak. According to the Amer proverb: give back bullets.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 September 2019 08: 58 New
        +2
        Quote: polar fox
        the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. These are people who sacredly believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation."

        Those. is this armament for potential "partisans" and others dissatisfied with something, by someone?
        1. BARKAS
          BARKAS 10 September 2019 09: 02 New
          +4
          This weapon is more suitable for entertainment and possibly training or as a torn gun.
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 39 New
            +1
            Quote: BARKAS
            This weapon is more suitable for entertainment and possibly training or as a torn gun.

            It is more suitable for training and acquiring skills, handling rifled weapons.
            or like a torn gun.

            It is more correct to say here, the first gun, for practicing skills, for acquiring rifled weapons.
        2. polar fox
          polar fox 10 September 2019 09: 03 New
          +4
          in general, yes, until the Rosgvardeytsy bring more perfect, this can be done for the first time.)))
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 10 September 2019 16: 13 New
            0
            Quote: polar fox
            until the Rosgvardeytsy bring more perfect, this is the first time you can do

            In the smooth-bore against the platoon (yes even the separation) of machine gunners are going to fight?

            Peace be upon the Lord, the soul of your sinful slave ... (this is what a noun asks for ...) request

            Or expect the Rosguards you will they bring something?

            Well, then exactly that noun laughing
        3. PSih2097
          PSih2097 10 September 2019 09: 11 New
          +4
          Quote: rocket757
          Those. is this armament for potential "partisans" and others dissatisfied with something, by someone?

          for potential partisans, a .300 / .308 / .338 Win / Magnum / Lapua, 7,62x54 / 7,62x39 caliber cutter is more suitable than a smoothbore ...
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 10 September 2019 09: 16 New
            -7
            Rifled in the "life" we are not welcome at all!
            1. PSih2097
              PSih2097 10 September 2019 09: 19 New
              +3
              Quote: rocket757
              Rifled in the "life" we are not welcome at all!

              this is whose opinion? DG or cops with exBB?
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 10 September 2019 09: 34 New
                0
                What does the opinion, how this process is regulated by law, should be so.
                Another thing is that you can cook up a by-law or finally change the law !!! The Duma, actually, the legislature, they can!
          2. BARKAS
            BARKAS 10 September 2019 09: 25 New
            +1
            For partisans, the main availability of ammunition SKS and TIGER is quite suitable for these purposes.
            1. PSih2097
              PSih2097 10 September 2019 09: 29 New
              +1
              Quote: BARKAS
              For partisans, the main availability of ammunition SKS and TIGER is quite suitable for these purposes.

              if the partisan movement begins, I think that the trunks, that the PSU for them can be found without problems ...
            2. Incvizitor
              Incvizitor 11 September 2019 13: 09 New
              0
              The same saigas and boars 7.62 and 5.45 are rifled, inexpensively massively angry and there is a lot of cartridge for partisans then.
          3. bairat
            bairat 10 September 2019 10: 43 New
            0
            Suitable, but before it you need to own 5 years smooth.
            1. Incvizitor
              Incvizitor 10 September 2019 13: 41 New
              0
              They wanted to reduce it to 3 years ...
              The familiar "paradox" is used as a "part of the DTK" because to expensive DTK you need those dances with a tambourine, he just fastened it on the DTK paradox and winds it up, takes it off quickly, I don’t see any sense in the paradox, and so the trunk is long, 70 meters falls in shots, especially with container ones. Rather, all these nozzles are for fanatics of weapons, which would just hang something.
        4. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 45 New
          0
          Quote: rocket757
          Quote: polar fox
          the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. These are people who sacredly believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation."

          Those. is this armament for potential "partisans" and others dissatisfied with something, by someone?

          This is a weapon that minimizes 5 experience to rifled weapons.
        5. Puzoter
          Puzoter 10 September 2019 09: 49 New
          +3
          It is not suitable for partisans - you can’t get cartridges from the enemy, and even more so, you can’t buy cartridges in case of anything.
          1. Tank hard
            Tank hard 10 September 2019 21: 02 New
            0
            Quote: puzoter
            It is not suitable for partisans - you can’t get ammunition from the enemy, and even more so, you can’t buy ammunition

            Gold words. good
        6. Tank hard
          Tank hard 10 September 2019 21: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: rocket757
          Those. is this armament for potential "partisans" and others dissatisfied with something, by someone?

          All this breaks down on the "non-proliferation" and the high cost of ammunition, it is easier to wait 5 years. wink
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 September 2019 05: 17 New
            +2
            Quote: Tank Hard
            All this breaks down on the "non-proliferation" and high cost of ammunition, it is easier to wait 5 years

            Why then this noise? Things of limited use, small distribution.
            Why are you so bothered?
            Unclear.
            1. Tank hard
              Tank hard 11 September 2019 11: 03 New
              +1
              Quote: rocket757
              Why then this noise? Things of limited use, small distribution.
              Why are you so bothered?
              Unclear

              Here I am ... It remains only to build guesses, but guesses are not facts ... request
      2. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
        SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 16 New
        +1
        Quote: polar fox
        Quote: rocket757
        Hunters, what do you say.

        the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. They are people who firmly believe in a “bright life in the Russian Federation” and what’s next “will be very good.” They are preparing for improvements, so to speak. According to the Amer proverb: give back bullets.

        the bulk of the purchases of TCMs are not hunters at all. These are people who sacredly believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation."

        Buy it in order to at least somehow minimize rifled weapons.
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 10 September 2019 09: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          Buy it in order to at least somehow minimize rifled weapons.

          Minimize WHAT? In the sense of counteracting such (partisans) or what would not try to get hold of real military weapons?
          1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 40 New
            +1
            Quote: rocket757
            Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            Buy it in order to at least somehow minimize rifled weapons.

            Minimize WHAT? In the sense of counteracting such (partisans) or what would not try to get hold of real military weapons?

            Minimize 5 experience to acquire rifled weapons.
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 10 September 2019 10: 21 New
              0
              Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
              Minimize 5 experience to acquire rifled weapons.

              Honestly, not at all in the subject, not a hunter ..... it seemed to me that rifled only professional hunters are allowed, which employees. After all, they need to work and work.
              Again, I suppose that a hunting rifle, rifled, is not military according to its characteristics .... of course you can use it, but then the stool is also a military weapon! How many goals suffered from it.
              1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 10: 35 New
                +1
                For 5 years you have been walking with smoothbore weapons, and after that, you can only buy rifled (anyone can buy rifled weapons, which is allowed by our law), while waiting for a five-year experience, you can limit yourself to “Lancaster” / “paradoxes”.
                Again, I suppose that a hunting rifle, rifled, is not military according to its characteristics .... of course you can use it, but then the stool is also a military weapon! How many goals suffered from it.

                And from the knife, much more losses.
                1. Incvizitor
                  Incvizitor 10 September 2019 20: 46 New
                  0
                  On the same moose, wild boar, you can go with a smooth one without any attachments, but in any case, you need to cut a bear onto a bear ...
                  1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                    SERGEY SERGEEVICS 11 September 2019 09: 31 New
                    0
                    in any case, a rifled bear ...

                    Not necessary! can also be smooth, you can use a bullet or buckshot.
                    1. Incvizitor
                      Incvizitor 11 September 2019 13: 14 New
                      0
                      A friend hunts, says, and if you don’t immediately kill the brain, it was that the brain was pierced from .300, then he passed another half a kilometer, I would not risk even going with it to “boar” it.
                      But the moose took 12x76 without problems under the scapula.
                      1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
                        SERGEY SERGEEVICS 11 September 2019 13: 32 New
                        0
                        If you are talking about a moose carbine, then it comes in calibres of 7,62 and 9,3 mm, 308win. And in the caliber 12x76 no, it is a smoothbore cartridge (magnum).
                2. Puzoter
                  Puzoter 10 September 2019 23: 47 New
                  0
                  In fact, the main plus of such weapons is less responsibility and hemorrhoids in general. For example, he gave a comrade to the SCS to hold it until he went to the wind - a criminal article, but almost the same, but Lancaster is just an administrator. Well, the Rosgvardia will not part with checks and seal the safe during various events.
              2. Tank hard
                Tank hard 10 September 2019 21: 06 New
                +1
                Quote: rocket757
                Honestly, not at all in the subject, not a hunter ..... it seemed to me that rifled only professional hunters are allowed

                They say that the rifled type 7,63x39, gives a lot of wounded animals on the hunt, and 366 tkm - not. But here let the hunters answer professionally, I am not one, I just heard the opinion. request
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 11 September 2019 07: 03 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Tank Hard
                  They say that the rifled type 7,63x39, gives a lot of wounded animals on the hunt, and 366 tkm - not.

                  I've heard / read this. Smooth, sharp bullet pass right through, it's easy! But the Jacques, for example, a stopping, lethal action, at close range is almost absolute! With its weight and diameter, this is understandable!
                  Then, smooth-bore, this distance is almost point blank !!! A rifled allows you to get from afar .... here and an experienced hunter misses!
                  1. Puzoter
                    Puzoter 11 September 2019 08: 42 New
                    0
                    The owners write that at 200 meters the accuracy is 7,62 and
                    The 336TKM is practically the same, so from a distance with such a smooth barrel it is quite possible to shoot no worse than a rifled one.
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 11 September 2019 08: 53 New
                      +1
                      Quote: puzoter
                      The owners write that at 200 meters the accuracy is 7,62 and
                      The 336TKM is practically the same, so from a distance with such a smooth barrel it is quite possible to shoot no worse than a rifled one.

                      Normal distance, but still close. For hunting norms.
      3. Kalmar
        Kalmar 10 September 2019 09: 25 New
        +3
        Quote: polar fox
        the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. These are people who sacredly believe in a "bright life in the Russian Federation" and what’s next "will be very good"

        According to my observations, faith in a bright future has nothing to do with it. Just an interesting toy (in a good way): almost-Kalash or almost-SVD (in the case of TG3). Partisaning with these calibers is not particularly productive: patrons are expensive (366TKM is three times more expensive than 7.62x39), and it’s more difficult to find them in the Bryansk forests))
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 10 September 2019 09: 40 New
          -1
          Quote: Kalmar
          finding them harder in the Bryansk forests

          In the woods, you can look for old warehouses / burials! In our cities / towns, some are arming themselves. WHAT FOR?
          1. Kalmar
            Kalmar 10 September 2019 09: 46 New
            +9
            Quote: rocket757
            In our cities / towns, some are arming themselves. WHAT FOR?

            Anecdote (not) to the topic:
            “Professor, why do animals lick their eggs?”
            - Because they can!


            Oh, this is “WHY” ... It is possible to expose everything to him, “why”. Why cool cell phone? Why a personal car? Why is a three-room apartment closer to the subway? And so gradually you realize that a normal person only needs to be happy, that a work robe and a shkonka to rest after work. Kylo will be issued on the spot.

            Why why. And then! Well, people want to, well, let them be. I also have a gun at home - just like that, I just like it, and I also shoot at the shooting range from it at the shooting range. Also just like that, for your own pleasure. I don’t see anything bad about it: I spend time in the fresh air, I support the domestic manufacturer (I buy cartridges and all that).
            1. rocket757
              rocket757 10 September 2019 10: 31 New
              +1
              Quote: Kalmar
              Well, people want to, well, let them be.

              NO PROBLEM!!! In terms of carcass, statistics show that cars re-puff the whole arsenal of the country!
              It is clear that the most stringent rules / restrictions do not save from tragedies .... the question is not about that, but about a specific type of weapon and ammunition! The rationality of their use .... I see no particular reason to limit it to them! If they are considered especially dangerous, let them write the rules, clear rules for use!
              Just a ban does not bring any benefit! My point is nothing more.
              1. Kalmar
                Kalmar 10 September 2019 10: 52 New
                0
                Quote: rocket757
                If they are considered especially dangerous, let them write the rules, clear rules for use!

                Yes, that's how everything was invented and written a long time ago. In fact, everything revolves around the old legislative notion that a person cannot be entrusted with a rifled barrel if he has not had a smooth dust in his safe for 5 years. Homo deputies felt sad that there was a way to somehow get around this administrative barrier.

                Quote: rocket757
                Just a ban does not bring any benefit!

                Will bring. Some legislator will hang a virtual medal on his apron for protecting the citizens of our great country from themselves by his willful decision. Fortunately, our population is accustomed to fearing itself, so the electorate may even appreciate it.
                1. Tank hard
                  Tank hard 10 September 2019 21: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Kalmar
                  that a person cannot be entrusted with a rifled barrel if he has not had smooth dust in his safe for 5 years.

                  Up to 25 (50) meters (and in the city the distances are not particularly large), any smooth caliber, especially 12 with a buckshot and especially a semiautomatic device with a magazine of 5 rounds, can give odds to a rifled one (scatter of buckshots can level individual protection), but that’s IMHO. request
      4. neri73-r
        neri73-r 10 September 2019 09: 49 New
        +2
        Quote: polar fox
        Quote: rocket757
        Hunters, what do you say.

        the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. They are people who firmly believe in a “bright life in the Russian Federation” and what’s next “will be very good.” They are preparing for improvements, so to speak. According to the Amer proverb: give back bullets.

        Bullshit, it's easier to buy a rifled barrel!
        1. tihonmarine
          tihonmarine 10 September 2019 10: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: neri73-r
          the bulk of what TCMs are buying are not hunters at all. These are people who sacredly believe in "a bright life in the Russian Federation."

          Well for us “old men” my old “Izh” is a non-smoking 12 cal. and KO-44 the beginning of the 60 years are dear to me, and for the guys who have already grown up on new models, for them it is archaism. So to each his own. But I like the new models, it's nice to hold and snuggle up with my cheek.
    2. tihonmarine
      tihonmarine 10 September 2019 10: 10 New
      +3
      Quote: rocket757
      Our vigil, is that not given?

      Yes to them that? that they will "Fittings" yes, "Remington" will drive and "Sauer three rings." They don’t even give domestic slippers.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 10 September 2019 10: 34 New
        0
        Quote: tihonmarine
        Quote: rocket757
        Our vigil, is that not given?

        Yes to them that? that they will "Fittings" yes, "Remington" will drive and "Sauer three rings." They don’t even give domestic slippers.

        It’s not about the vigil, it’s not the top leadership! It’s just those who work on the ground, who follow the rules!
        Maybe they have an opportunity, some, but not so much that the Sauers would be elite to buy, and they go ordinary in slippers.
  3. Terenin
    Terenin 10 September 2019 08: 47 New
    +8
    First of all, the material touches on the draft law “On Amending the Federal Law“ On Weapons ””, submitted on June 27 of 2019 at a meeting of the working group created by the State Duma’s Committee on Security and Anti-Corruption under the leadership of Alexander Khinshtein.

    Hinshtein Sasha completely “froze” his brains while he was an adviser in the Russian Guard fool
    1. Romanenko
      Romanenko 10 September 2019 09: 16 New
      +11
      As for Khinshtein’s brains, do not flatter him, they have never been there, only language and a desire to curry favor for money
  4. lambert
    lambert 10 September 2019 08: 57 New
    +17
    Until approximately 1975, there were no problems with smoothbore hunting rifles. Then they decided to register. Then they decided that only after passing a physical examination you can become the owner of a weapon. Then only the criminal record. In general, it is only a structure and order that collects money. If everything is canceled and returns to order before 1975, money will be saved on the LRO apparatus - there will be fewer of them, let the premium pistols be considered (and it’s not clear why rifled barrels are needed - there is little doubt against this.) When the statistics show, in the first place is the kitchen knife , then a car and only in an incomprehensible place - a smooth-bore considered barrel. According to statistics, for the year 992 hooliganism with weapons was read - without casualties.
    Therefore, it is worth noting that smooth-bore weapons - do not stand in the first place among those who bring crimes and deaths. Therefore, all that concerns hunters with smoothbore weapons - everything must be canceled. Everything is far-fetched.
    1. Loess
      Loess 10 September 2019 09: 13 New
      0
      When statistics are shown, in the first place is a kitchen knife, then a car, and only in an incomprehensible place, a smooth-bore considered barrel.
      These statistics are directly related to the number of kitchen knives / cars / smoothbore per capita.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 10 September 2019 09: 31 New
        +8
        Quote: Less
        These statistics are directly related to the number of kitchen knives / cars / smoothbore per capita.

        The population has about 10 times more cars than trunks (smooth and rough). Under the wheels of a car, according to the traffic police, about 1000 people die every month. From legal weapons - I don’t remember exactly, there were about 500 incidents per year (not only deaths).

        Plus, you need to understand that kitchen knives and cars are everywhere, and weapons are only allowed in certain places. As a result, in theory, it is necessary to monitor strictly more precisely the knives and machines, but in fact - vice versa.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 10 September 2019 09: 34 New
      +4
      Quote: lambert
      there will be a savings on the LRO apparatus

      There is a feeling that no one has such a trite goal. If you get strong, you can always save on a social network (all sorts of pensioners, doctors, teachers, etc., as usual).
  5. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 10 September 2019 09: 07 New
    +4
    They don’t forbid me ... all this is new-fashioned toys - I have a Sauer shotgun in my safe, Izhevsk self-loading, Lynx and like a cherry on a cake - my Tiger cub. ... he needs to go to arrange spa treatments and massage with oil ..
    1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      They don’t forbid me ... all this is new-fashioned toys - I have a Sauer shotgun in my safe, Izhevsk self-loading, Lynx and like a cherry on a cake - my Tiger cub. ... he needs to go to arrange spa treatments and massage with oil ..

      It’s easy for you to say so * Don't be banned * because you don’t have them, and if you have 15 of them in the safe, then you’ll begin to evaluate the situation differently.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 10 September 2019 09: 28 New
        +2
        Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
        It’s easy for you to say that * Don't be banned * because you don’t have them

        Wow .. At one time six months went in doubt - to buy or not. Then, nevertheless, the rational got the upper hand over the emotional - for low-hunting, and for the booth with fun - ammo expensive.
        1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 51 New
          +1
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
          It’s easy for you to say that * Don't be banned * because you don’t have them

          Wow .. At one time six months went in doubt - to buy or not. Then, nevertheless, the rational got the upper hand over the emotional - for low-hunting, and for the booth with fun - ammo expensive.

          While you have not bought rifled weapons and are waiting for 5 years of experience, “Lancaster / Paradox” replaces it well. Cartridges yes, they are really expensive, and the factories that produce them are also limited, hence the price tag is too high.
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD 10 September 2019 10: 05 New
            +4
            Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS
            and wait 5 years

            Five years is not so much, you can wait. But in general, of course, dissatisfied with such decisions are somewhat correct. The habit of approaching problem solving on the principle of "keep and not let go" instead of prudent regulation is not the best feature in the administrative tradition of our country.
            1. Incvizitor
              Incvizitor 10 September 2019 20: 53 New
              +1
              I think people are 3 years old more than enough to get comfortable with the use of weapons and buy rifled, especially at a close distance 12 will be more dangerous than rifled ...
    2. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 10 September 2019 11: 30 New
      +5
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      They don’t forbid me ... all this is new-fashioned toys - I have a Sauer shotgun in my safe, Izhevsk self-loading, Lynx and like a cherry on a cake - my Tiger cub. ... he needs to go to arrange spa treatments and massage with oil ..

      At first they came for the socialists, and I was silent - because I was not a socialist.
      Then they came for union members, and I was silent - because I was not a union member.
      Then they came for the Jews, and I was silent - because I was not a Jew.
      Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.
      When they forbid non-members of EP to own rifled weapons or even prohibit a smoothbore, since there are at least 3 ways to spin a bullet in a smooth barrel without Lancaster and paradox, while singing?
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 10 September 2019 11: 59 New
        0
        Thank you for quoting Remarque, it’s nice to meet a well-read person, but applying the quote about the rise of Nazism to changes to the law on weapons is somehow tense and ... pompous or something .. hi
  6. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
    SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 09: 11 New
    +3
    This is some kind of horror! Every year, it’s getting worse and worse in weapons legislation. In addition, the State Duma introduced a law under which, a citizen who has 5 weapons (if less than 5, it will be unnecessary to do this) will have to signal safe, access to private security. Thus, we can say that they are trying to limit people from weapons. And with the help of "Lancaster" / "paradoxes", it was possible to instill skills for rifled weapons, and for this purpose they promoted him. And about what kind of weapons culture can be discussed, and how then can it be instilled in people if there is a complete ban on this.
  7. Romanenko
    Romanenko 10 September 2019 09: 14 New
    +8
    Well, delights are understandable, they generally don’t like it when the population has weapons in any form. Because cat feels whose meat is eaten.
    And they understand that sooner or later they will receive gratitude from the people for their activities, so they are trying to disarm him, even contrary to common sense.
  8. Revival
    Revival 10 September 2019 09: 15 New
    +1
    Deputies are afraid and not only ...
    And here is such a simple means to ban.
    To drag and not let go
  9. jayich
    jayich 10 September 2019 09: 20 New
    +1
    Well, these deputies to Kudykina Gora. I would generally allow a rifled automatic in free sale right down to guns of battleships and multiple-launch fire systems (by the way, is there a smooth trunk where to get?)
    And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.
    1. faridg7
      faridg7 10 September 2019 14: 48 New
      0
      Quote: jayich
      Well, these deputies to Kudykina Gora. I would generally allow a rifled automatic in free sale right down to guns of battleships and multiple-launch fire systems (by the way, is there a smooth trunk where to get?)
      And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

      Then wrap me with Aurora, and even better Dolgoruky (let me put a monument not only in the USSR, but also in the states)
  10. RUSS
    RUSS 10 September 2019 09: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: polar fox
    according to the American proverb: if they came for your property, start giving back with bullets.

    Need to remember!
  11. Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 10 September 2019 09: 40 New
    +2
    Quote: jayich
    And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

    Of this they and be afraid. I’m still surprised how they still manage to assert their right to a “smooth barrel”, because the twelfth caliber at a short distance is a terrible weapon ...
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 10 September 2019 10: 03 New
      +4
      Quote: Brylevsky
      for the twelfth caliber at short range is a terrible weapon ...

      Well, a 12 "caliber is just something from 0 to 255 cables a terrible weapon
    2. your1970
      your1970 10 September 2019 12: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Brylevsky
      Quote: jayich
      And what the government was sick of, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

      Of this they and be afraid. I’m still surprised how they still manage to assert their right to a “smooth barrel”, because the twelfth caliber at a short distance is a terrible weapon ...

      How tired already- "they are afraid!" ...
      First they write about # they’ll be afraid, then right there they write about a short distance .... you are closer to which deputy 100 meters with smoothbore rifle plan to approach? !!! nonsense ....

      If power at least a bit I was afraid first if it were her, she would seize the Tigers (in the name of the SVD) and KO-44 (in the name of the carbine in 1891/30) .Then all the variations around the SCS, and then everything else ....

      And here comes the reverse process ... just wrapping up the controls ...
      I completely agree with the opinion that it’s stupid. It would be much more logical to equate it to a rifled one.
      those who own a long time to establish conditions for both rifled, and for only acquired and short experience, a limitation for storage and use
  12. Avior
    Avior 10 September 2019 09: 44 New
    +5
    I think that the law is connected not with ordinary criminal offenses or accidents, but with the fear that the people are armed, so they are trying to seize the widespread weapons that are somehow close to rifled.
    The rifled on the hands is still much smaller, and getting it harder.
    https://mp3cc.biz/m/565817-viktor-ryabov/36461432-maksim/
  13. Setavr
    Setavr 10 September 2019 09: 46 New
    +3
    Pdrsy. Who exactly I will not say, but you yourself will guess.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  14. Igor Borisov_2
    Igor Borisov_2 10 September 2019 09: 54 New
    +4
    Quote: 210ox
    In general, I would like to know my "heroes" surname


    The main, as can be seen from the article, A. Hinstein ...
  15. vnord
    vnord 10 September 2019 09: 59 New
    +3
    Quote: rocket757
    Hunters, what do you say.

    BMT is only for post-shootings (who do not want to leave with a smoothbore and wait 5 years), in Russia there are no big problems in obtaining a license for rifled weapons .., which in most cases does not need a smoothbore, almost all tasks are covered except for shooting on paper (very many people are now fond of this). And many with Lancaster buy SCS and AKM (the price is more or less ozumny) for the soul and go a couple of times to the shooting range ..
    In general, this attempt to ban Lancaster’s insanity, the population already has a lot of licensed weapons .. It looks like they’ll get to smooth soon ..
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 11: 14 New
      0
      It seems that soon they will get to smooth ..

      Already starting
  16. paul3390
    paul3390 10 September 2019 10: 09 New
    -1
    Quote: Avior
    get it harder

    Not harder. It is only necessary to have 5 years of smooth experience ...
    1. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      SERGEY SERGEEVICS 10 September 2019 10: 20 New
      0
      Quote: paul3390
      Quote: Avior
      get it harder

      Not harder. It is only necessary to have 5 years of smooth experience ...

      Well, yes, if you live in the city, and if in the area, then there will be a lot of problems. Every five years, it’s necessary to carry rifled weapons to the shooting, and for many this is very problematic.
  17. Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 10 September 2019 10: 35 New
    +5
    Quote: vnord
    It seems that soon they will get to smooth ..

    Get there. If we give our own right to own it. We’ll mumble something and shaw, as always ... Yes, only if some of the most "frantic" deputy, or someone else, someone decides to "dump", then the absence of a hunting rifle will not become a serious obstacle, - I hope they understand this? Or, in this case, it is necessary to prohibit the sale of piercing and cutting objects, axes, cars, and also not to teach children at the school of physics and chemistry, so that, God forbid, they could not create black powder in the living conditions or make hunting bow with arrows...
  18. Lord of the Sith
    Lord of the Sith 10 September 2019 10: 44 New
    0
    Tighten the law, the arms business will go into the shadows.
  19. Undecim
    Undecim 10 September 2019 11: 13 New
    +4
    It is noted that the bill, the criticism of which most of the article is devoted to, provides for the removal of smooth-bore guns, when fired from which the bullet acquires rotational motion.
    A vivid illustration of the level of thinking of deputies - lawmakers.
    According to this criterion, all hunting weapons will have to be withdrawn, since turbine-type bullets (Shtedenbach, Mayer, Power) gain rotational movement even when firing from classic hunting rifles with cylindrical drill trunks.
    And what will they do with the owners of guns, in which the choke is a standard integral drill? Saw off the trunk? And some of them have such "paradoxes."
    So there will be practically no weapons in circulation. We'll have to switch to stag beetles.
    1. Hort
      Hort 10 September 2019 16: 28 New
      +1
      shh! don't tell them
  20. ultra
    ultra 10 September 2019 12: 03 New
    -5
    I personally, for a complete ban on weapons.
  21. Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 10 September 2019 12: 20 New
    +2
    Quote: ultra
    I personally, for a complete ban on weapons.

    Feel free to ask why?
    1. ultra
      ultra 11 September 2019 14: 39 New
      0
      We have bullets left and right from injuries and pneumatics, and even if the short barrels are allowed, I’m afraid to imagine what will happen.
  22. l.jensen
    l.jensen 10 September 2019 12: 38 New
    +1
    Probably it all depends on the consciousness and mentality of citizens. We have a strict weapons law, the police are not armed (only an armed police unit has weapons). The attitude to weapons in society is negative. Like weapons - go to the army. So what? Yesterday in the news - a shootout, two were killed. In Switzerland, citizens have so many weapons that it is not clear why such a quantity. Shooting is a folk obsession, outdoor activities, and a matter of pride. The use of weapons in crimes they do not have. What kind of attitude to weapons in your society, such laws promote.
  23. Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 10 September 2019 12: 53 New
    -1
    Quote: your1970
    Are you planning to approach a deputy closer than 100 meters with a shotgun? !!! nonsense

    I AM? I’m not planning on anyone. Are you out of your mind to discuss such topics in a public forum?
    1. your1970
      your1970 11 September 2019 09: 33 New
      0
      Quote: Brylevsky
      I?
      -you quote a person who
      Quote: jayich
      Well, these deputies to Kudykina Gora. I would generally allow a rifled automatic in free sale right down to guns of battleships and multiple-launch fire systems (by the way, is there a smooth trunk where to get?)
      And what the government got sick of it, went directly to the White House, and grinned at all the money, then the people will erect a monument.

      and it you discuss
      Quote: Brylevsky
      similar topics in a public forum?

      something like this ...
      Squeals got me # they are afraid and exactly absence I commented on such fear
  24. frizzy
    frizzy 10 September 2019 14: 10 New
    +1
    And we Kazakhs even pneumatics identity now through garbage must be issued. Here are such things.
  25. Hort
    Hort 10 September 2019 16: 27 New
    0
    prohibit it will not prohibit. but talk of classifying Lancaster guns as rifles has been going on for a second year ...
    On the one hand, nonsense, of course, is another. And on the other hand, there is a rational grain here: the same 366 TKM (if I don’t confuse it with 9 mm Lancaster) has cartridges with shot in the container instead of a bullet. And some owners use it for poaching - in one store it’s kind of like a shot for a duck, and the other is equipped with bullets so that someone bigger could shoot
  26. AAK
    AAK 10 September 2019 17: 05 New
    +3
    I suppose the matter is different ... Under the lid of the "bowler hat" it’s gurgling at the full, if something happens - it might tear ... It’s not modern to take up axes and forks, but this pack is very afraid of weapons in the hands of the people. .. Therefore - and a categorical veto on civilian rifled weapons, and "squeezing out" (decreasing the number) of ordinary hunters (as a stratum of people holding at least some kind of weapon), and problems with registering a hunting "rifle", and now they are trying to limit the ability to have more or less serious ammunition from the "smoothbore", and the trunks themselves ... So, what is done is only because of fear of the future from certain circles ...
    1. Understanding
      Understanding 11 September 2019 19: 05 New
      0
      That's about it.
  27. RUSS
    RUSS 10 September 2019 18: 16 New
    +2
    Quote: Cat Man Null
    From what stump of “power” should one be afraid of a “people” armed with smooth-bore farts?

    Pukalka also shoots, not to mention rifled hunting weapons.
  28. sharp-lad
    sharp-lad 10 September 2019 21: 32 New
    +1
    I wonder what happens if you connect the BOPS with a smooth-bore 12 gauge? bully
    1. Cat man null
      Cat man null 10 September 2019 22: 03 New
      0
      Quote: sharp-lad
      What happens if you connect the BOPS with a smoothbore 12 caliber?

      Starling.

      I am concerned about the issue:
      Why does the starling whistle?
      - From being light
      Very very
      And flies wherever he wants.
      - Wants!
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 11 September 2019 22: 45 New
        0
        Sub-caliber ammunition is not only for tank guns. And under 12 gauge it’s not difficult to grind a bullet and a detachable pallet having a lathe. It would be a desire.
  29. Vitaly Dorofeev_2
    Vitaly Dorofeev_2 11 September 2019 13: 10 New
    -1
    Power in its repertoire. First, everyone was obligated to stick the “Sh” sign on the car, and after a year and a half it was not necessary, since "this law has lost its relevance." The cat, when he has nothing to do, licks coca. And deputies brilliant bills give birth ...
  30. E.S.
    E.S. 11 September 2019 13: 26 New
    0
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    The deputies have nothing to do. They are promoting pension reform, then a 4-day week. And then they took up a firearm. "Lancaster" they do not like! You ask why ... After all, they will not answer. laughing

    Because this Lancaster is comparable in combat quality to a fully rifled barrel, and in fact the appearance of small-caliber weapons with a drill, Lancaster is a trick to buy rifled weapons without five years of smoothbore ownership
  31. Brylevsky
    Brylevsky 11 September 2019 15: 58 New
    -1
    Quote: ultra
    We have bullets left and right from injuries and pneumatics, and even if the short barrels are allowed, I’m afraid to imagine what will happen.

    A polite society is an armed society. In such a society, everyone will think a hundred times before saying or doing things that are contrary to the norms of human morality — does he need this because it is fraught with consequences. If I pressed the trigger, then I thought. "In this life, we can do anything if we are then ready to be responsible for our actions."
  32. Understanding
    Understanding 11 September 2019 19: 01 New
    0
    This seems to be the case: a revolution is ripening in the country. Whether it will be or not will be the tenth matter. But the Boss is getting ready. What is a revolution? This is an armed rebellion. Armed! It is clear that with the current capabilities of the special services, the “steamer with English rifles” will not come to St. Petersburg. One of the alternatives is self-arming of citizens. Yes, we have many hunters. And getting permission for a smooth trunk is pretty easy. But with a smooth one you won’t fight, you need a rifled one. Permission to rifled weapons can be obtained no earlier than after 5 years of impeccable possession of a smooth barrel. And to violate the terms (for example, for a bribe) is extremely difficult. For example, I did not succeed.) And now, if the people decide that they urgently need to arm themselves, then they will not be able to do it legally. Almost will not be able ... The fact is that weapons under the .336ТКМ, .345ТК, .366 Magnum and 9,6 / 53 Lancaster cartridges are considered smoothbore! Moreover, it has a TTX similar to Kalash. That is, with weapons under the Kalashnikovsky cartridge 39 * 45. And it is freely sold to novice hunters who have just received a license to buy a smooth barrel and have no five-year experience. I think the whole point of the draft law is precisely in this. Do not let the people quickly arm themselves with relatively high-quality weapons.
    1. xax
      xax 12 September 2019 00: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: Understanding
      revolution is ripening in the country

      So that's why they want to ban the restoration of armored cars! )))
  33. Viktor77
    Viktor77 11 September 2019 19: 34 New
    0
    Some representatives of the authorities seem to be starting a persecution mania, apparently they feel that it is not worth it for ordinary people to have some types of weapons. But no matter what happens, people are already afraid!
  34. ssergey1978
    ssergey1978 11 September 2019 19: 50 New
    0
    Some kind of stupidity. Money nowhere to go? I didn’t buy such weapons, but I don’t support any creeps for withdrawal and prohibition. Moreover, it is necessary to authorize the sale of the COP. IMHO
  35. xax
    xax 11 September 2019 23: 55 New
    +3
    1. Let me remind you that this movement with lancaster / paradox was not started by some artisans, but rather serious guys from Kalashnikov and Rostec.
    2. It is quite obvious that these drills were attached to the smoothbore using the holes in our weapons legislation. And everyone knows that the gaps in the legislation, which are beginning to be used too clearly, will sooner or later be eliminated by the authorities.
    Attention to the question: putting a bunch of dough in the development of trunks with these drillings and starting production for ten thousand workers, could the guys from such serious organizations not think about what sooner or later they could cover this shop? Could they, having access to the very top, not be safe and not get any information on how the authorities intend to relate to such trunks in the future?
    I think no. Could not. And they asked who it was necessary, and planned their activities taking into account the views of the authorities on this issue.
    Then what is happening now? - you ask? Or maybe it was intended? - I will answer.
    And what: they developed, sold at least until the loopholes closed, received compensation from the budget for the development, also received lost profits from there. Moreover, compensation and lost profits can be declared such that you can’t earn on real sales of these weapons for 200 years. It’s quite a profitable business, only buyers and taxpayers are in the way.