A photo appeared with damage to the Su-34 after the collision

REN TV channel published a shot with the Su-34 bomber, which took part in a collision with another similar combat aircraft in the sky over the Lipetsk region. Recall that the incident occurred last week. Fortunately, the pilots survived and were able to bring the aircraft to the airfield after the collision.

Aircraft (photo from the report channel below) received very serious damage.

So, the right wing of the Su-34 is significantly damaged, and the wingtip is literally torn out. In addition, the damage resulting from the collision affected the Khibiny electronic warfare complex.

The fact that the plane landed successfully with such damage already speaks of the pilot's professionalism and the reliability of the aircraft.

According to some reports, one of the aircraft, in conditions of loss of visual contact by the pilot, hit a wing on the “flashlight” of another bomber. When the pilots realized that a collision had occurred, they simultaneously tried to push away the combat vehicles, but this led to a repeated mechanical impact. Earlier it was reported that the resulting debris fell into the Su-34 engine. Now both combat vehicles are in need of repair.

Some experts said that repairs could be “hung up” on crews that “made a mistake when flying in pairs.” The Defense Ministry has not yet specified a specific amount of damage and does not comment on statements in the media about at whose expense the restoration of the bombers will be carried out.

A photograph in which the second plane participating in the collision would have been captured has not yet been published.

Comments

[Ross_ulair]

And let's, in the event of a pilot error and the death of the car, hang the full cost on him or his family!
By installments! Let's win!

Here it is - capitalism in all its glory ... Evidently, things are very bad in the kingdom of Denmark ...

I do not think that the technology is not insured. Or will recourse insurance be recovered?

[loki565]

I do not think that the technology is not insured. Or will recourse insurance be recovered?

insurance of military equipment ??? Well, the price of insurance is equal to the cost of the aircraft)))

[carstorm 11]

this is not the case. there are mistakes and there is frank negligence. Well, let's just say one thing is a mistake and another thing is such an accident due to, for example, hooliganism.

[Igor Aviator]

Quote: carstorm 11

there are mistakes and there is frank negligence. Well, let's just say one thing is a mistake and another thing is such an accident due to, for example, hooliganism.

Yes Yes! Nice man, and you know that a good pilot grows only from a HOOLIGAN, get acquainted, better, with the history of the USSR Air Force! Moreover - all modern aces of the RF Aerospace Forces are from "hooligans"! Only they managed to put their fighting enthusiasm and courage at the service of their professional growth. I believe that the "punishment" - in fact, only the NAME of the pilots can only be the most thorough (with their direct participation) analysis and analysis of the flight, add. time on simulators, add. aerobatics lessons as a part of a pair in PMU and SMU, passing tests in airplane flight control and KBP, actions in difficult conditions. All! otherwise, we will lose the flight crew! or do you agree to come to their place? If not, you better be silent! You see. of those who believe. that "the plane flies because it has WINGS[i] [/ i]! "

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Igor Aviator

Yes Yes! My dear man, and you know that a good pilot grows out of a HULIGAN only,

[Flanker27]

And why this photo?

[basmach]

A good hooligan pilot will not grow up. Due to lack of discipline. A good talent pilot, polished like a diamond by long training. Aviation is a flight discipline.
In my time, both were written off and would have been fired. When we have in1. a flyer with a permit to fly in SMu during the rain landed in the middle of the runway (and it was 92 m), did not release the brake and did not use the brakes, and instead of rolling out onto gravel at the end of the runway, decided to turn to taxi at a speed of 3200 km (extreme ) then he ditched the plane, he was thrown from the runway, all three racks were formed and he lay down on the "belly" And damaged the right plane. The pilot was written off for three days, a week later he was fired. And the plane was written off a year later.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: basmach

... When we have in92. a flyer with permission to fly in SMu during the rain landed in the middle of the runway (and it was 3200 m), did not release the brake and did not use the brakes, and instead of rolling on gravel at the end of the runway, he decided to turn onto a cart at a speed of 90 km ( extreme) then ditched the plane - it was thrown from the runway, all three racks were formed and he lay down on the "belly"

This is not hooliganism, but gouging. Things are completely different

[basmach]

Learn to distinguish between carelessness and unprofessionalism. In this example, a series of pilot wrong actions after an error with landing, which ended in a critical error (an attempt to taxi at a speed of 90 km). For such cases, there is a safety lane (gravel road) and a catching net .. We pulled it out, examined it, and forward. A doltishness is when he did not check the receipts on the chair, and began to do something. And then they showed me, a young summer, in the TEC: "You see, there is a spot painted over on the beam. So he entered with an armchair." Razdolbaystvo is when a group of officers from the headquarters of the ground army flew from our airfield (from Ussuriisk to Khabarovsk). The chief of reconnaissance (colonel) was late for departure, jumped when the engines on the AN-26 were already launched. The flight technician showed him that he would open the ramp. So the colonel, to speed up the process, decided to run between the propeller and the fuselage. And not around the plane. And so that the cap did not blow off, he held it with his hand. Apparently he was born in a bulletproof vest. He only cut off his fingers with a screw .. He was taken to the hospital, and on AN the blades were changed. That's what gullibility is.
All rules and instructions in aviation are written in blood. And a hooligan pilot is either a prerequisite for a flight accident (with subsequent analysis and conclusions), or a flight accident, or a catastrophe. (With death). A bully in aviation is a crippled technique, and corpses are, first and foremost, the bully himself.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: basmach

Learn to distinguish between gouging and unprofessionalism.

I have long learned. Gouging can not foresee the nature of the consequences.
A bully always knows the limit.
Your childhood was boring

[basmach]

Unlike you, I had this service. But you, with your rudeness, apparently didn’t get out of childhood. And, judging by everything, the shoulder straps on this site are virtual. As well as knowledge of the army in general, and aviation in particular.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: basmach

And here you are with your rudeness,

Oh how
And detail?

[basmach]

Your childhood was boring
If you consider my service as "childhood", then I consider your commentary rudeness. I think you can think of the rest - "aviation specialist"

[Lipchanin]

Quote: basmach

Your childhood was boring

In childhood, they were not bullies?
Then really boring ...

If you consider my service as "childhood", then I consider your commentary rudeness.

Where did I say about the service?
Not tired of inventing?
He said that Nesterov made a "Loop" on that very day on September 9, so immediately the conclusion from the ceiling

Only it was not hooliganism, the execution was preceded by an exact dawn. And do not talk about hooliganism.

He said about CHILDHOOD, right there with an incomprehensible conclusion about the service. Serve from the cradle?

I think you can think of the rest - "aviation specialist"

Of course I thought of it. Here you don't have to be an "aviation specialist" to see an inadequate and irrepressible fantasy.
It seems that the truth of childhood was not

[Veteran of the Sun]

ramp? An-26 has a ramp, no ramp. and yet, the ramp opens (closes) the flight engineer.

[basmach]

A ramp in aviation is a device designed to load and unload an airplane. It is a mechanized hatch in the nose or tail of the fuselage, capable of descending to the surface of the apron. As a rule, cargo and military transport aircraft are equipped with ramps,
Apparel (fr. Appareil - “apparatus, device”) - a flat platform, embankment or platform for lifting and lowering equipment, cargo, animals, etc. On vehicles, a ramp is a platform for moving cargo on board and back; in this meaning is also called a ramp.
The flight technician and the flight mechanic (if I remember correctly, since I served in the IBA and not transport personnel) on small planes are one and the same. 76 seems to have a separate airborne landing equipment technician. But I don’t remember exactly

[Veteran of the Sun]

on the An-26, the flight engineer had a working place in the ChFF on the starboard side, and there was also a ramp control panel. when flying for landing, the ramp after opening is retracted under the fuselage.

[Vanek]

Quote: Sun Veteran

ramp? An-26 has a ramp, no ramp

Yuri remind.

Is the ramp and ramp basically the same thing?

Only the ramp is from the fleet. Correctly?

The principle is the same. The device and tasks seem to be the same. The difference is only in terminology.

Please correct me.

Jury

[your1970]

Quote: basmach

A bully in aviation is a crippled technique, and corpses are, first and foremost, the bully himself.

We didn’t close the hood shutter, in a hurry. The second one did not check ...
The result - beat the blades on three helicopters after an attempt to take off.
And the blades in the warehouse, bye-bye, and there’s nothing to fly on ...

[your1970]

Quote: basmach

All rules and instructions in aviation are written in blood. And a hooligan pilot is either a prerequisite for a flight accident (with subsequent analysis and conclusions), or a flight accident, or a catastrophe. (With death). A bully in aviation is a crippled technique, and corpses are, first and foremost, the bully himself.

-one forgot to close the sash hoods ... in a hurry ... the second in a hurry-did not look around ...
Gazovka ....
They beat the blades with hoods on 3 (three !!) sides. The regiment was waiting for business trips to Chechnya (1996) ...
And the blades in the warehouse, bye-bye, and there’s nothing to fly on ...
What is it - do not care, hooliganism or sabotage (so that they would not send him to the war or for loot)? !!!!

[Igor Aviator]

.

Quote: basmach

A good bully pilot will not grow up

You are only addressing Nesterov, Chkalov, Pokryshkin, Kozhedub, Safonov, Pugachev, Kvochur, Apakidze (heaven to him be heaven!), M. Belyaev, do not tell ... Do not confuse "hooliganism" - non-standard actions "on the verge of a foul" with absolute confidence in their strengths and capabilities with a divine gift, with sloppiness and fear. I repeat, ALL our domestic aces "grew" from "air hooligans"

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Igor Aviator

You are only addressed to Nesterov,

Nesterov made his "Loop" for the first time on September 9

[basmach]

Only it was not hooliganism, the execution was preceded by an exact dawn. And do not talk about hooliganism. The flight of Chkalov under the bridge is first calculation, then execution. And about hooliganism, behind the TPPs we had the remains of such a Pacific. Separate engine, separate nose. Hooled up.
Hooligans in aviation didn’t live.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: basmach

Only it was not hooliganism, the execution was preceded by an exact dawn.

I just marked the date. The conclusions themselves came up with ..

[dmmyak40]

Moreover, if you, a warrior, you mostly risk yourself and / or a crew / slave, then in a civilian hooliganism in general leads to terrible consequences.
Remember how the Grozny crew in Kuromech put a Tu-134 dispute on a dispute under curtains?

[dmmyak40]

Do you remember why Chkalov switched to test pilots? Everything is very simple: he crashed a fighter as a result of air hooliganism. Failure to comply with flight plan requirements is that valor? Courage? If I’m not mistaken, it was Polikarpov who was able to play very subtly on the features of the psyche of Valery Pavlovich: he said that Chkalov, as a pilot, is weak, so he flies in violation of all the rules. So any cadet can. But to do EVERYTHING - only a real pilot can do it! And it worked!
And yet it is not clear: what does Nesterov, Pokryshkin, Kozhedub, Safonov and other worthy pilots have to do with air hooliganism?
As for Pokryshkin, he was generally a supporter of sober calculation in battle. Just don't confuse hooliganism with audacity. For example, in a dive, unexpectedly attacking a four or eight "Schmitts", knocking down the leader and leaving with impunity with a well-calculated maneuver is audacity.
But paired with an inexperienced slave to attack the Germans link, as Glinka did (and be shot down), this is hooliganism on the verge of stupidity.

[Ross_ulair]

Quote: dmmyak40

And yet it is not clear: what does Nesterov, Pokryshkin, Kozhedub, Safonov and other worthy pilots have to do with air hooliganism?

Kozhedub, too: being knocked out and burning, he kept a sober calculation to the end, and knocked down the flame by sliding. True, he didn’t jump out of the LF, although in theory he should have - the tank in the plane was smoking, could explode. But he took a risk, and saved the car as a result.
Also, Ivan Nikitovich landed a completely beaten plane when in March 43, still a green sergeant, 110 was trapped over his own airfield (they were still inexperienced with the leading Vano Gabunia, they were unable to hold the pair and were lost in the clear sky - Kozhedub circled over his house, and Gabunia with some Yaks Ilov covered, the radio wasn’t yet on their Lavochkins), but he could and should have jumped out. But a huge sense of responsibility and respect for technology made him take a risk and put a plane in the air on a bombed, in the craters, airfield

[dmmyak40]

I remember Aleksey Maresyev from his "last kilometers on snot pulled": after the frontal with a fokker, he barely made it to the point, and sat down with the engine stopped. I also didn't want to jump and ruin the plane.

[Igor Aviator]

Quote: basmach

Due to lack of discipline

Do not confuse God's gift with fried eggs!

[NN52]

Igor Aviator
You mean the "hooligan" Valery Chkalov, you mention?
And nothing that the KBP is written in the "blood" of other pilots, as well as the Airplane Flight Manual .. did you forget or did not know?
There is the result of non-compliance with the duties of the leader and the follower, the guys were mistaken, very much ...
The wingman lagged behind and "fell out" of the pair, but did not report ... He was on the "catch-up". And the leader, instead of asking for the follower, began to roll, decided to find "with his eyes" ... Found ...
In this situation, only Shoigu’s intervention will help with the compensation of damages. The military prosecutor’s office has only one place, a criminal case has already been opened, flight books have been seized, and so on ...
And minus, yes, from me to you.

[Ross_ulair]

Quote: NN52

I decided to find it with my eyes .... I found it ...

It’s good that not like Tkachenko’s slave’s over!
For Igor Valentinovich 10 years ago, the ending of the lantern was fatal

[basmach]

All is correct. It's just that there are aviation specialists — who have never sniffed kerosene on a concrete — like a dog’s fleas

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: NN52

nothing that KBP is written in the "blood" of other pilots, as well as the Airplane Flight Manual .., the guys were mistaken, much ...

Hi NN52, I don’t remember something, so that someone with a discipline problem, on the ground, and especially in the air, should graduate from college. They threw off all without regrets.
It seems to me that we are offered a substitution of concepts: they try to present healthy professional audacity as hooliganism, and this is different. Compare talented and successful pilots and ... In a word, this is superfluous. Guys specifically made a mistake, it happens and good luck to them in the future. It is a pity of course, but for prosecutors it’s all lyrics.

[ProkletyiPirat]

Quote: Igor Aviator

add. simulator time

Modern simulators do not allow you to train maneuvering, or rather, overload when maneuvering, and without it simulators are effective only at the initial stage of training, and it will be like with sailors suffering from seasickness ...

[Trotil42]

Yeah ... from the hooligans ... from the surviving hooligans ... though there are few of them ... Over the past 10 years in America there has not been a single case of mass deaths during air travel ... it seems like they are immediately expelled and deprived of their license .. .and the military too ... just nobody wants to be left without a pension ... how often do you hear about incidents in the US Air Force? Training and practice discipline is the key to success ...

[Ross_ulair]

Quote: Trotil42

How often do you hear about incidents in the US Air Force?

Statistics for the last year, which was googled in 10 seconds for the query "USAF crash."
https://topwar.ru/152154-uzhasnyj-2018-god-dlja-boevyh-samoletov-ssha-jeskadrilja-bezvozvratnyh-poter.html

You can look at the current, I'm too lazy

[Trotil42]

Thanks for the statistics .. but you need to compare with the number of flights .. and I think it will not be in our favor ...

[carstorm 11]

and don’t talk. give bullies. even if at a time a couple of just the same machines worth more than 100 lyam greens are sent to the scrap. them as dirt. aces are born from hooliganism is so cute.

[Airmedved]

It’s not entirely clear, but does BA pass tests according to KBP BA? Why would they fly in pairs?

[Barmaleyka]

Quote: carstorm 11

this is not the case. there are mistakes and there is frank negligence

I wonder how much McCain was detained at the time for the ditched aircraft and the nearly ditched aircraft carrier

[VO3A]

The equipment is not insured ... They may be required to compensate for the damage in some volume .... I emphasize, they may also be in the conditional volume ... There is also a limitation by law, not more than 5% of monthly monetary allowance and other payments .. We have humane laws for the military ... Don’t worry too much ... And there are no time limits ... And there is no reason for dismissal from the army ... And you don’t need photos, but the witty zhurnalyug muzzle in the mud when you try. ..And do not give them pants to change ....

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

Quote: VO3A

They may be required to pay damages in a certain amount .... I emphasize, they may also be in a conditional amount ..

About the amount will be dealt with in court. Part of the amount will be covered by funds allocated from the federal budget. Here is an example:
“As it became known to Kommersant, bailiffs are collecting more than 17 million rubles from the former commander of the submarine division, Captain I rank Igor Martemyanov and the commander of the submarine Krasnodar, Captain II rank Denis Sopin. During the 2016 exercise in the Baltic Sea Krasnodar "During the ascent, collided with a foreign ship, after which it was put into repair. The officers fully admitted their guilt in the incident, but Mr. Martemyanov, who is a disabled person, did not have the required amount.
According to the FSSP database, the department of bailiffs in the Kronstadt and Kurortny districts of St. Petersburg collects from Igor Martemyanov in the amount of 5 million rubles. on a writ of execution issued on March 21 this year by the Leningrad District Military Court. In turn, Denis Sopin owed bailiffs of the Nakhimovsky district of Sevastopol 21,7 thousand rubles. In his case, we are only talking about legal costs on the claim of the Ministry of Defense, which was satisfied by the same military court. "
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3974387

[Hagalaz]

Let's all wait for an official decision, and not statements by unknown experts.
Of course, hanging stuff on pilots is nonsense. There such a bondage may come out that tryndets.
What kind of punishment for the service may well be. But not material.

[dauria]

What kind of punishment for the service may well be. But not material.

Three salaries (for all, commander, pravak, airborne) for a set of blades on our Mi-8 and Mi-24. Hooked on taxiing. And you say - "not material". 85th year.
Yes, and then someone tells fairy tales about the asov-hooligans .. After the phrase "Look how I can" there is usually a commemoration. I have never met such a meticulous discipline as in aviation anywhere else ..

[Lipchanin]

Quote: ROSS_Ulair

And let's, in the event of a pilot error and the death of the car, hang the full cost on him or his family!
By installments! Let's win!

Here it is - capitalism in all its glory ... Evidently, things are very bad in the kingdom of Denmark ...

I do not think that the technology is not insured. Or will recourse insurance be recovered?

That's just published on the Lipetsk portal

Aircraft collided during a training flight. According to REN-TV, the root cause was the loss of visual contact. And this happened after the follower climbed under the leader and did not report to him about it. Having lost contact, the pilot began to roll to find the follower (waved his wings left and right), and at that moment hit the wingman’s cabin with the right wing.

From the first blow with the right half-wing, the leader lost the Khibiny electronic countermeasures (KREP) complex and tore the slave's fuselage from the cockpit to the right engine. Realizing that something was wrong, the leader shifted to the left bank and hit the follower again. On the second impact, debris hit the engine. The pilots managed to land the damaged aircraft. This is despite the fact that one of the planes was gushing fuel from the wing at the time of landing.

As was established later, both fighters cannot be restored.

At the same time, according to TASS, it is possible that the pilots themselves will have to pay for the repair of the aircraft if it turns out that they are guilty of creating an emergency. The cost of each Su-34 is more than 1 billion rubles. According to GOROD48, these aircraft were not insured.

[Eragon]

Quote: Lipchanin

As was established later, both fighters cannot be restored.

So I look at the photo and don’t understand - why isn’t it subject to restoration? repair the wing or, in extreme cases, replace it. Or is a wing replacement more expensive than a new aircraft ???
Shorter shit on the Lipetsk portal

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Eragon

Shorter shit on the Lipetsk portal

Didn’t you read it?

As the REN-TV,

[Eragon]

Quote: Lipchanin

Quote: Eragon

Shorter shit on the Lipetsk portal

Didn’t you read it?

As the REN-TV,

Sorry, thanks. Forced to recover: not onthrown while tothrow what flew from REN-TV.
You need to check the accuracy of the information, and then publish it. This is not to the Lipetsk portal, but to all the media.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Eragon

You need to check the accuracy of the information, and then publish

This is a city portal. News.
The pilots and technicians of the center already know what and how

[Antiliberast]

Quote: Eragon

Shorter shit on the Lipetsk portal

[/ quote] As was established later, both fighters cannot be restored. [quote]

At the same time, according to TASS, it is possible what to pay for repairs the planes themselves will have to pilots

[Trotil42]

And if the entire wing is deformed and the blow is transmitted to the glider? It cannot be restored ... it’s cheaper to build a new one .. visually you can’t see it ...

[Veteran of the Sun]

come on. leading in close formation, he preoccupied himself with a visual search for the follower (why would it), i.e. without observing it, arbitrarily maneuvers without warning .... some sort of nonsense the Lipetsk portal writes, there is no term in aviation .. it splashes fuel, and even from the wing, well, from the wing tank wherever it went. Yes, and SU-34 is not a fighter

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Sun Veteran

some sort of nonsense, the Lipetsk portal writes, there is no term in aviation .. it splashes fuel, and even from the wing, well, from the wing tank wherever it went. Yes, and SU-34 is not a fighter

Yes, and not a professional pilot wrote this.
Yes, and the NEWS portal, and not special for pilots.
Well, if you read ATTENTIVELY, you can see this

. According to REN-TV,

So that the claim is not addressed. The portal just reprinted the news

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: ROSS_Ulair

And let's, in the event of a pilot error and the death of the car, hang the full cost on him or his family!
By installments! Let's win!

But I wonder - how much did the MO pay the family of the deceased pilot? I don’t know how many lemons SU-34 costs, but how to estimate the cost of a person, son, husband and father?
The categorical opponent of collecting even part of the cost of damaged equipment from the military. If the damage to the equipment was not targeted.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

The categorical opponent of collecting even part of the cost of damaged equipment from the military

It’s impossible not to disagree with you, but for prosecutors it’s all the lyrics. My teacher, one of the pillars of application - 23, brought down the interception driven by excitement: the plane was forgiven, thank God the pilot was alive, but counted in full for kerosene, oil every liter, for consumables in a word - it ran in there ...

[your1970]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

The categorical opponent of collecting even part of the cost of damaged equipment from the military. If the damage to the equipment was not targeted.

in 1988, on a call, two hot mechvods steel on 2C3 (152mm) butt-who will push someone from the site. One of the other during the trips blasted the trunk very successfully - to the point of "impossibility of recovery." They counted 200 and something thousand SOVIET (!!!!) rubles. They were immediately transferred from us, so I don’t know the finals, were they paid?
Nevertheless, for 2 years (while I was serving), the CD took all the new arrivals to the parking lot and said: "There was a 2C3 - for which this freak will pay ALL the rest of your life "

Z.Y. 336 bucks (!!!!) rudely at that time

[Yujiko]

It's just in the sentence - "Some experts said that repairs can be" hung "on the crews," who made a mistake while piloting in pairs "" the word "experts" forgot to include in quotes.

[Vanek]

Quote: ROSS_Ulair

hang the full cost of it,

You Michael, now understand why the captain of the ship does not always leave the sinking ship?

Michael

[Ross_ulair]

In a country of developed capitalism with a human face, this is not a guarantee! The family remains! In our country, debts are inherited.
On the contrary - you will survive - you can also get a divorce, you can take away debts from the family

Ivan

[w70]

What did they train rams to do? Now the planes are fighting for tens of kilometers, but the victims of the exam do not know

[kupitman]

During the Soviet era, in the part where my father served, they drowned a plane in a swamp (CARL!). As a result, the investigation showed that the accident was a result of the negligence of the tractor driver and other participants in the aircraft towing. Bottom line - they paid for the loss of equipment for a long time. I do not think that they paid the full amount, but paid and capitalism has nothing to do with it. If the carelessness of the pilots is proved, then they can pay, but they will not pay the full amount. There is a choice between two options - to plant or pay. This is a punitive measure, not a reimbursement of monetary losses to the state. and how do you think it’s better to sit out for five years or five years to pay 25% of the amount of money allowance, and only the salary for the position + rank is taken into account there.

[lukewarm]

Quote: ROSS_Ulair

full cost to hang on him, or family!
By installments! Let's win!

Recently, just such a practice has prevailed. In VK there was a post about a helicopter pilot. I broke the power line, damaged the blades. The crew did not scratch, put the turntable on the airfield. In addition to all the damage - the year of the colony. We must go to Shoigu with a proposal to create collection units in the military police.

[Thrall]

The main thing is that the pilots are alive!

[monah]

If the boys are hanged the amount of damage, they will not be so glad that they are alive!

[kupitman]

and if you choose between plant or pay? What if the pilots committed a deliberate violation of the rules of flight (air hooliganism)?

[w70]

Yeah, a new plane will ruin

[Ros 56]

The main thing is people are alive, and they will make new cars, but expensive, no one argues. So put the accountant in the cockpit, let him teach how to fly.
And when a pilot, yes, any warrior dies, who pays for it?

[Igor Borisov_2]

If the pilots were able to land a car with such damage, this suggests that they would hardly have made piloting errors. And as for the recovery of damage, once I remember the film "Top Gun" - "I recently broke a fighter, now they are holding 20 bucks a month" .... (I don't remember literally, it was a long time ago, but the meaning is this)

[loki565]

Well, so we have no more than 5% per month, but most likely they will be charged for a force majeure

[bober1982]

Quote: Igor Borisov_2

If the pilots managed to land the cars with such damage - this suggests that they would hardly have made piloting errors

If a collision is allowed, then after that, as a rule, they have a pale appearance.

[kupitman]

and if air hooliganism? Experienced pilots suffer from this.

[kit88]

In addition, the damage resulting from the collision affected the Khibiny electronic warfare complex.

Without going deep into technical details.
Is this trolling like that?

Where are the Khibiny?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: kit88

Where are the Khibiny?

Tore off

From the first blow with the right half-wing, the leader lost the electronic countermeasures (KREP) complex of the "Khibiny" and tore at the slave fuselage from the cockpit to the right engine

[ism_ek]

The second case is not an accident. Long group flights on the Su-34 with low visibility do not lead to anything good. Why didn't the VKS leadership draw conclusions from the catastrophe over the Tatar Strait? Damage should be hanged on the generals, so that the subordinates would not be sent "do not hammer nails with a microscope."

[Voyager]

Apparently for the first time everything was attributed to adverse weather conditions ...

[Lipchanin]

Quote: ism_ek

Long group flights on the su-34 with low visibility

There was no low visibility

And this happened after the follower climbed under the leader and did not report to him about it. Having lost contact, the pilot began to roll to find the follower (waved his wings left and right), and at that moment hit the wingman’s cabin with the right wing.

[bober1982]

Quote: ism_ek

Damage to generals must be hung so that subordinates are not sent

What about the generals? If, apparently, they themselves violate the requirements of the generals themselves, and what does it mean ........that would not send subordinates ... Where did they send it?

[bober1982]

Quote: ism_ek

The second case is not an accident.

There will be a third, then a fourth and more .....

Quote: ism_ek

Long group flights on the su-34 with low visibility

There are rules for group flights, if a collision occurs, then, as a rule, because of violations of such rules.

[ism_ek]

Why do we need group flights on supersonic bombers? This is not a fighter. The pilot's view is very limited. Each aircraft has a navigator.

[MoJloT]

Drive me into the garage, in a week it will be better than a new one, I will put molding as a gift.

[SASHA OLD]

Quote: MoJloT

Drive me into the garage, in a week it will be better than a new one, I will put molding as a gift.

and then for sale as "not a bit, not beautiful, the girl drove at the wheel in the" work-home "mode, for a real buyer - bargaining at the fuselage"

[Ross_ulair]

Quote: SASHA OLD

"not a bit, not beautiful, the girl drove at the wheel in the" work-home "mode

Hmeimim Barmalei

Quote: SASHA OLD

real buyer - bargaining at the fuselage "

Well, on ice cream - to note this thing!

[SASHA OLD]

for sure !!
and finally:
"Congratulations on your purchase, go, rejoice!")

[Lelik76]

The one in the photo, change the point of the right (detachable part of the wing) and make one electronic warfare container, make leveling and if everything is good to fly further on health, they cannot be restored. With the second, it's not clear, if the casing was opened along the gargrotto, you need to look there. What kind of jambs on airplanes were not "cured" in principle.

[jeka424]

Not the first clashes with su34 like, that year was

[bober1982]

Quote: jeka424

Not the first clashes with su34 like, that year was

Intensively began to fly, hence the accident.

[Dikson]

Tell me please, specialists from aviation ... The nature of the damage and the flight accident as a whole does not tell you first of all that the Su-34 pilot does not see a damn thing about its rear hemisphere? For no instruments, not visually .. How was it written there? Lost your partner’s plane? And he blew through the fuselage from the flashlight to the engine .. If the partner was from the bottom .. So it turns out - the bomber pilot does not see anything underneath? can he even slam the camera from the parking sensors into his belly?

[donavi49]

Well, who will look there? Yankees and Europeans are actively implementing augmented reality systems with helmet projection. But in the VKS there will not be such a high-tech 20 for years,

[bober1982]

Quote: donavi49

Yankees and Europeans are actively implementing augmented reality systems with helmet projection. N

They do not implement anything, bullshit is ordinary.

[bober1982]

Quote: Dikson

that the Su-34 pilot doesn't see a damn thing about his back hemisphere? Not by any instrument, nor visually.

The navigator sees the leader, and the crew of the follower sees everything.

[Dikson]

bober1982 in this particular case, the navigator did not see anything, as well as the helper itself ... I still don’t understand .. - On relatively inexpensive cars there is a parking sensors system, on penny drones of despicable China - there is also a system warning about the dangerous proximity of the device to others objects, but on the newest Russian bomber, worth a hundred million green ones, it’s not. And there are no rear view mirrors. And even just like in the post-war bombers there is no plexiglass window in the cockpit floor .. On the passenger liners in the cabin, the camera is turned on, which looks down and forward. For fun. And in our combat vehicle, is the pilot like a horse blinkered, is forced to look strictly at the heading, or do you turn the barrels to look down? 21st century in the yard ...

[bober1982]

Who saw what or didn’t see - we still don’t know, and it’s still not correct to compare the plane with the car.

Quote: Dikson

And in our combat vehicle, is the pilot like a horse blinkered, is forced to look strictly at the heading, or do you turn the barrels to look down?

There are no problems, look down, this is not the case. There is no automation and cannot be when flying in closed order - the speeds are very high, only the pilot can maneuver and react. The Americans have the same thing, I repeat once again - with such flights, flight is possible only in manual mode.

[Roman070280]

As far as I understand, Eugene wrote above not about automation for maneuvering .. but about "automation" for detection ..
I am far from aviation, but it seems to me that the example with the parking sensors was just very appropriate here ..
If, in fact, one of them has lost sight of the other ... well, it’s just like you need a couple of cameras around the plane .. and like a car, you can determine the road markings, signs, ahead cars ... when everything is highlighted with a square. .
And when it squeaks and displays information that another plane is ten meters below you .. And then work "in manual mode"

[bober1982]

Quote: Roman070280

about "automation" for detection.

There is plenty of such equipment on any aircraft.

Quote: Roman070280

If, in fact, one has lost sight of the other.

There are rules and instructions for flights, which clearly spelled out the actions of the slave and the leader in this case. If a collision occurs, then the responsibilities of the master (follower) were violated, with good equipment.
Can a car be compared with an airplane, an emergency is developing not just fast, but rapidly, no equipment will help.

[Roman070280]

Well, I proceed from what was written above .. that they collided just because of the loss of visibility of each other .. So either not "with excess equipment", or something else is wrong ..
I back up - I look at the camera, and sometimes parking sensors squeak, because I’m distracted and do not have time to turn my head around.
And then, as you say yourself, the situation is developing much more rapidly .. It is clear, maybe the pilots did something there and did not follow the instructions .. but the extra "squeak" they just would not have prevented them at that moment .. and forced to wave wings to look back ..

[bober1982]

Quote: Roman070280

Well, I proceed from what was written above .. that they collided just because of the loss of visibility of each other.

And where did they get it that they lost each other? but, if they were lost due to loss of visibility, then the first action is to safely disperse, in course and altitude, this is the responsibility and such situations are discussed on the ground, and already at a safe distance and altitude to look for your leader or slave.

Quote: Roman070280

but an extra "squeak" would definitely not have prevented them at that moment ..

By the way, this very "squeak" can sound almost constantly, for example, when flying at extremely low altitude, the barometric altimeter shows that the plane is flying underground, the radio altimeter needle twitches, there is a "squeak", the display is flashing Dangerously, but the flight continues (in manual mode), here you have the equipment, and it's not about it, it was just literally "confused" with such flights

[Pavel57]

And it is very difficult to make an automated system a flight system /?

[bober1982]

There is one — inter-airplane navigation, at night in the clouds — the distance between the planes is 12 seconds, without it — 20 seconds, with closed battle formations there can be no auto system — only in manual mode.

[Doctor]

in close combat

But what's the point in modern conditions to fly in closed battle formations? So that one rocket covers both?

[bober1982]

Quote: Arzt

But what's the point in modern conditions to fly in closed battle formations? So that one rocket covers both?

And why - both? After all, the Su-34 bomber, build, build and build again - a pair, a link, a squadron, because these are strike groups.
and, why do you think that they will cover the rocket, you have to work hard, it is not so easy to fill up.

[Doctor]

build, build and build again - a couple, a link, a squadron, because these are shock groups.

I understand this, the question is for you, as a specialist: what is the density of the modern system? Since the days of the Second World War, the speed has increased (less reaction time, more chance to collide), the damage ability of a weapon (rocket) has changed with an increase in the spread of fragments (a rocket in a dense pair can hit both), homing on planes is carried out by a radar (a dense pair is more noticeable? Or not?) . What is the distance between the master and the slave of the bombers when approaching the target in modern time?

[bober1982]

But what has changed since the time of the Second World War? - nothing has changed, like the bombing bomb groups, they remained.
The classic construction of the battle order of the bombers, in the daytime in simple weather conditions (as an example), take a squadron. Simplified of course.
Squadron - 12 aircraft, in close combat order, link (4 * aircraft) - closed, wing to wing, between links - two minutes. The strike is at the airfield, the first link enters the runway, the second link enters into the parking lot, the third link diverges into pairs — strike at the air defense and individual targets (I emphasize, simplified to say) The strike is delivered in a short time (why closed), with a minimum residence time in the affected area, with the active use of electronic warfare and maneuvering.
The battle formations can be all 12 aircraft - in closed, this is the highest level, wing to wing, this is not a circus, this is combat work.

[Doctor]

wing to wing

Why such a density? Why not 40 meters apart? Is visual contact required in pairs now?

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

In such a system, it is difficult to direct both radar missiles (near) and infrared (far).

[Doctor]

According to this system

On dense? Or open?

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

On tight. The heads are small, the resolution is several meters. Due to the vibration, the brightness (infra and radio) flickers, with a change in direction, which the onboard computer can take for interference and start searching for the "true" target.
The Americans fooled our S-75s in Vietnam, a system of 12 aircraft in a line with an interval of 40 meters. The backlight is huge, but impossible to get.

[bober1982]

Quote: Arzt

Why not 40 meters apart?

This is a lot, it is no longer in close order, the slave drops bombs along the lead (or, the whole link), as a rule, affects the accuracy of bombing.

Quote: Arzt

Is visual contact required in pairs now?

Of course, it cannot be otherwise. It’s difficult for the wingmen to fly, the leader maneuvers - the whole group is behind him, you have to be very careful. No automation, system, devices will help, there isn’t and cannot be.

[Doctor]

Of course, it cannot be otherwise.

Do Americans have that too?

[bober1982]

Quote: Arzt

Do Americans have that too?

No, differently.

[Dikson]

What an interesting tactic .. that is, only the third link, breaking into pairs, strikes at the air defense system of the attacked airfield .. And the first two fall under the distribution or something? In four minutes, how many missiles can an air defense system release? Is that how we teach pilots? Of the twelve cars - eight substitute under attack?

[dmmyak40]

Why do they fall? The first two links strike and force the air defense system to find themselves, after which the third link hits them. A classic trick tested in all wars.

[bober1982]

He said, simplified.

[Pavel57]

I think that it is possible to automate the flight in tight formation. Just nobody set a task.

[OSN Skif]

If "today" narrow-minded people decide to hang the cost of repairs on the pilots, then there will be no one to fly tomorrow. "

[yehat]

Quote: carstorm 11

this is not the case. there are mistakes and there is frank negligence. Well, let's just say one thing is a mistake and another thing is such an accident due to, for example, hooliganism.

To begin with, the agency should plan losses during operation.
no matter what a good plane. an army is an army. here the sentries shoot at their feet
and floating tanks are drowning one by one.
such a case should by no means be something new.

[yehat]

Quote: Pavel57

And it is very difficult to make an automated system a flight system /?

there are hazard warning systems
and there is no fully automatic even on ships whose maneuver is nowhere more primitive.
there is no such thing on f-35.

[Pavel57]

No on the ships again - no one set a task.

[E.S.]

How strong the device is!
It is possible to "push away from the Shoigu plane" the NATO members approaching by simply using the phrase "get out of here nafig until you get a flashlight by the wing tip!"

[Lipchanin]

Quote: E.S.

until the wingtip has not received a lantern! "

"And I will tear the fezulage from the cockpit to the engine"

[Tuzik]

Classes)))))

[yehat]

Quote: Lipchanin

How did it happen???

[Lipchanin]

Quote: yehat

How did it happen???

I don’t remember exactly, this photo was posted here about 5 years ago.
It seems like the strip was slippery.
It seems so told

[yehat]

most likely relocated at taxiing

[Lipchanin]

Quote: yehat

most likely relocated at taxiing

Maybe.
I really don’t remember. It has long been. It seems like they said who the pilots were and where it was.
And it seems like the one on the right is to blame. You can see the pilots there

[Orkraider]

God forbid, they will hang the amount for the pilots, there are not enough flyers anyway ..

[yehat]

Quote: E.S.

"Get out of here nafig until you get a lantern by the wing tip!"

jokes as jokes, but before 1941 the ram was a standard fighter maneuver worked out. We even had a theory and instructions on how to carry out a ram better.

[bober1982]

Quote: yehat

but before 1941, ramming was the standard fighter maneuver practiced.

Before 1941, ram was not even considered as maneuver, at the beginning of the war - yes, in order to raise morale, then they could punish the battering ram.

[dmmyak40]

Taran was one of the tactical methods of attacking enemy aircraft. The difference is that this technique was different from the sacrificial rams. As a result of the ramming, the enemy’s plane had to be destroyed, and our plane survive. Khlobifstov, if not mistaken, made 4 productive rams and nothing.

[bober1982]

Quote: dmmyak40

Taran was one of the tactics of attacking enemy aircraft

When they didn’t know how to fight, at the beginning of the war, then yes.

[dmmyak40]

In most cases, yes, but do not forget that almost no one went to ram in the presence of ammunition, only in its absence. That is, sometimes - this is the only way to complete the task. For example, I-153 / Mig / LaGG / I-16 should intercept and destroy the scout. German aircraft easily withstood many ShKAS hits, and the BC cannon is also not endless. A German flies ... Taran. Even if you know how to fly.

[yehat]

far from newcomers practiced the battering ram - they could beat i-16 messers.
it was not practiced out of inability.

[Thrifty]

Maybe it’s time to legislatively ban this absurdity - to hang damaged equipment on the military? ??

[dgonni]

Pilots Respect! With a union, such an incident with the same instant 23 would have simply been let down on the brakes at the division level, distributing earrings to all the sisters. That bishch to the pilots of the planer and on vacation komeska from the party committee committee. On PTO, the stump would be clear, they would have been smudged for a long time and still it was necessary to draw it up correctly.

[ODERVIT]

Well, you got excited. A similar incident at the division level? The high command would be notified in the shortest possible time. The commander is not a suicide, he also wanted to become the commander of the VA, or even higher.
The report would have passed immediately along the lines of the Communist Party, the IAS and others, but it’s not worth talking about political fighters. They handed over all at once.

[dgonni]

In during the political and would have knocked. Although I came across flying. In the FGP was the 23rd brought on the wing and landing gear half of the short drive. Further the division did not go.

[tuts]

respect to the pilot who managed to land the plane

[Radical]

Some experts said that repairs could be “hung up” on crews that “made a mistake when flying in pairs.” The Defense Ministry has not yet specified a specific amount of damage and does not comment on statements in the media about at whose expense the restoration of the bombers will be carried out.

They should be awarded for professionalism in the real test of new equipment, verification of the structural strength of this aircraft model, as well as the reliability of the engines installed on it!

[bober1982]

Then the pilots realized that a collision occurred ......, merciless and harsh journalism.

[awg75]

rave. what is the point of hanging repairs on pilots if it is unrealistic to pay. if gouging, write off in motorized arrows. if during study, then what money from them. for such aircraft, especially important for Russia, in my opinion the selection should be very strict, there shouldn’t be any people passing by. but knowing our reality and pushing thieves kids is not surprising. it's a pity.

[your1970]

Quote: awg75

if gouging, write off in motorized arrows.

- Yes, in a week he will hang himself ...
from l / s ... or start to eat, do not drink ....
Pilots — they are like small children .. they are of course military — but not infantry, infantry is a weapon of mass destruction — the brain makes it immediately ....
I watched it several times, as soon as the flyer receives the conscripts — in a day or two they will ride it, even if it hits their faces with it.
In my memory - only two flyers were able to curb a little conscripts. And then these were OBATO fighters, also relatively NOT infantry

[APASUS]

1 It’s pointless to put such expenses on the crew; you can’t give them back in life. I think for this pilots should have insurance
2 All remained alive and this is perhaps the main thing

[Kelwin]

Funny iksperdy-zhurnalyugi with rent and their audience) One thing is not clear - why is it generally allowed to get such information in the "media" in itself and discuss it, this information, with all sorts of hog-cookers and other bloggers-mummies? Let the cats post, why inform them about such things? ...

[Adimius38]

yes, professionals are still flyers ... really kicked out on .... with aviation

[AKS-U]

From the official site: - "Today the Center is the main base for researching the combat capabilities of MiG-29, MiG-31, Su-24, Su-25, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, Su-30SM and Su-35 aircraft with the subsequent introduction into the practice of the Air Force of the developments obtained during flight experiments. "
A kind of training for the capabilities of the pilot, machine, equipment. And what and how will they implement if the crews pay for the equipment.
I was always interested in the question, how long will the Presidential Regiment stay in a combat position? Yes, and a kiverok, a service to a sniper.
Do not execute the men, they saved the cars.

[tinibar]

This country is crazy (

[AKS-U]

I compared this case with the infantry. Something like that - Srelba. Hit the target. Well done. Going on vacation. - Shooting. I missed the target. Woodpecker. Go pay at the cash desk for the spent ammunition.
The shit.

[Alien From]

All the same, there is in this "duck" what kind of hidden power I am !!!!

[Radical]

Quote: Radikal

Some experts said that repairs could be “hung up” on crews that “made a mistake when flying in pairs.” The Defense Ministry has not yet specified a specific amount of damage and does not comment on statements in the media about at whose expense the restoration of the bombers will be carried out.

They should be awarded for professionalism in the real test of new equipment, verification of the structural strength of this aircraft model, as well as the reliability of the engines installed on it!

It's strange, I'm quite serious, but here you can see a helluva lot of "patriotic-made" audience.
PS Note, I marked this category in quotation marks, if I don’t know anyone ....

[Sergey Averchenkov]

Quote: basmach

A good hooligan pilot will not grow up. Due to lack of discipline. A good talent pilot, polished like a diamond by long training. Aviation is a flight discipline.
In my time, both were written off and would have been fired. When we have in1. a flyer with a permit to fly in SMu during the rain landed in the middle of the runway (and it was 92 m), did not release the brake and did not use the brakes, and instead of rolling out onto gravel at the end of the runway, decided to turn to taxi at a speed of 3200 km (extreme ) then he ditched the plane, he was thrown from the runway, all three racks were formed and he lay down on the "belly" And damaged the right plane. The pilot was written off for three days, a week later he was fired. And the plane was written off a year later.

I don’t know what’s about discipline ... but when deciphering black boxes, I saw such tricks of the pilots ... We had a poster on the wall with acceptable values ​​- will it be double for you? Ah, yes - objective control, 361-th AFP, at your service. :)

[not main]

Quote: ROSS_Ulair

And let's, in the event of a pilot error and the death of the car, hang the full cost on him or his family!
By installments! Let's win!

Here it is - capitalism in all its glory ... Evidently, things are very bad in the kingdom of Denmark ...

I do not think that the technology is not insured. Or will recourse insurance be recovered?

Have you forgotten how, in the days of the USSR, “they calculated for a tank or an airplane? The worst thing was“ naval ”!” But seriously, it’s a piloting mistake, I don’t rule out arrogance. The commission will draw conclusions. The pilots will not pay, but problems may arise with further service!

[Good mat]

The SU-24 has one wing - two consoles ... And the rest, but who knows what happens in the air and on the ground ..?! The guilty must answer, the degree of guilt should be determined by experts.

[pafegosoff]

In aviation, there is always risk.
But how much do they beat and shoot down on roads and sidewalks?
And the killings were so cheap! It’s not to shoot from a pistol or to chop off an ax during self-defense of a bandit. Crushed - muttered, paid off, kill on.
Some beauties have their hands to the elbow in blood, two hundred violations - everything gets away with it!
They got to the bottom of the pilots ...

[airgus]

Unfortunately, these are times now that prosecutors need a guilty person. In such cases, 99.9% is a pilot. No need to go far. On August 22.08, the court sentenced the MI-8 pilot, who, while flying along the route, hit the power transmission line support. 3.5 million rubles + a year of the colony were suspended on him. Here is such a policy now.

[your1970]

Quote: airgus

On August 22.08, the court sentenced the MI-8 pilot, who, while flying along the route, hit the power transmission line support.

A power line jumped across the route? Strange, no? Or is the pilot not all the same?

[panzerfaust]

The guys saved the planes and survived - that’s the main thing! And the repair is due to Mrs. Shevtsova :)))

[airgus]

Tell her about it))))

[SEMARGL]

REMEMBERED, HOT HEADS PART 1, YOU TAKE PLANE IN SEVERAL MILLION YES BUT I PAY OUT ON A DOLLAR WEEK! AND IF SERIOUSLY, ERRORS HAPPEN AT ALL AND AT RISK AND LEVEL. PROFESSIONAL ARE BORN IN THEM! PILOTS OF THE GOOD.

[MatrixLine]

I don’t know how in aviation, but while serving in the army in 1987, we had an emergency. Two soldiers of the communication center in the winter during a blackout in the unit (Altai, taiga) dragged a gas generator to the communication center and let's start it. Chih! there is no fuel, there is no light, the darkness of the eyes if one, let’s pour gasoline from a 20 liter flask with the second matches… as a result, they burned down the division headquarters ... According to the outcome of the trial, everyone paid 10 rubles (Soviet rubles), it was very expensive at times, but the collapse of the USSR saved them from this ...

[DimerVladimer]

Some experts said that repairs could be “hung” on crews that “made a mistake while flying in a pair”

What kind of expedition? What does it mean to hang on crews?
Their job is to risk their lives, not to pay for repairs.
Touching in tight formation or with loss of visibility is an inevitable risk of pilot training!

[svit55]

The photo is impressive. Half of the plane is torn off, and the rest is also turned out ... How did they have enough "rudders" on landing? The flaps are released, but the slats are not released? Well done for planting!