1939-40 Intelligence about German troops near our border

In the previous part we began to consider the deployment of the German headquarters of associations, which will concentrate near the Soviet-German border by 22.6.41. It was shown that in intelligence materials (Goals Difference) German formations were indicated, most of which could not be in the indicated places. Such "exact" RMs could only be provided by the German command, using fake signs on the shoulder straps of the military.

To determine the military membership of the units already in 1939, our scouts used visual observation of the signs on their uniform:

Information on the numbering of aircraft parts is not available. Discovered individual soldiers with the number 58 on yellow shoulder straps belong to air units (there was no information about the existence of such an air squadron).

In this part, we will go back a bit and talk briefly about the German military districts. Of all the districts, we are interested in the 1, in whose territory, by 22 June, a part of the German invasion group will be concentrated. Consider the actual location of military units in East Prussia and former Poland in the 1939-1940 years, as well as the available intelligence information about them.

German military districts

By August 1939, Germany had 15 military districts with numbers from I to XIII, XVII and XVIII. The district consisted of primary and backup components. In the event of hostilities, the main components were part of the field army and became the headquarters of the corps, and the reserve came under the command of deputy commanders of the districts. The tasks of the reserve components included: the mobilization and training of enlisted personnel, the acquisition of existing units and the formation of new (including headquarters), the management of military schools and military facilities, etc.

Some headquarters of the military districts were deployed in the headquarters of the armies. For example, in the 1 military district due to the Sudeten crisis in 1938, the headquarters of the 3 army was created on the basis of the district headquarters. After the crisis, the separation of headquarters was abolished. In August 1939, when preparing for the invasion of Poland, the headquarters of the 1 district and the army were again divided.

After the conquest of Poland, two new districts appeared: XX and XXI. In the rest of the territory of former Poland, military districts did not exist before the start of World War II. The border of the Third Reich with the Soviet Union passed through the territory of former Poland, and after the Republic of Lithuania entered the USSR and along the border of the Lithuanian SSR.

In 1939-1942, German divisions that went to the front left one battalion in the place of permanent deployment, which served as a reserve: he trained new recruits and sent them to his division to the front. Therefore, in places of permanent deployment of divisions, large groups of military personnel could be located with the designation of regiment numbers that were on different fronts. It is possible that our intelligence sources mistook these units for full-fledged regiments.

The reserve divisions on the territory of the 1-th military district could include soldiers of the following divisions (which existed before the 22.6.41): 1-th, 11-th, 21-th, 61-th, 161-th, 206-th, 217- th, 228, 291 and 714 infantry divisions (pd), 1th cavalry division, division No.141 (reserve division).

Eastern Group Headquarters

Our intelligence regularly noted the headquarters of the Eastern Group of Forces: 15.6.40 and 17.7.40 in the city of Lodz, 21.6.41 in the city of Tomaszow. Mention of the headquarters of the Eastern Group, located in the city of Spala, is repeatedly available in RM 1941 of the year. The distance from Spal to Lodz is 52 km, and from Spal to Tomaszew is about 8 km.

The post of Commander-in-Chief of the East was defined in the decree of the Fuhrer from 25.9.39:

“... In the previously occupied Polish territories, the commander in chief of the ground forces, on my behalf, is creating a military administration. At the head of the military administration is the Commander of the East, Colonel General von Rundstedt, with headquarters in Spal ... "

.

General Rundstedt took office on October 3 1939 of the year. In addition to the troops of his army group "South", troops located in the territory of the former Poland, Poznan and West Prussia began to obey him.

On October 20, Colonel General Blaskowitz is appointed the new Commander-in-Chief of the East, who remains in this post until 15.5.40. The rank of the post itself is being lowered, since it is planned to leave no command of an army group or a single army headquarters or army corps in Poland during this period. For the organization of the corps headquarters of the Commander-in-Chief, parts of the headquarters of the command of the border center “Center” were involved. This is partly due to the fact that, in accordance with a decree from 19.10.39, the issue of management in the new governor-general has already been resolved, and from that day the management of the military administration has ended.

In May 1940 of the year, on the basis of the corps headquarters of the Commander-in-Chief of the East, the headquarters of the 9 Field Army was formed, which was decreasing to the West on May 14. The new headquarters of the Commander-in-Chief of the East will be formed on the basis of the headquarters of the command of the South border section. It was not possible to establish who exactly will become the new Commander-in-Chief, but the rank of this post has again dropped ...

The headquarters of Army Group B, which will lead all German forces on the Soviet-German border from August 1940, will be relocated initially to East Prussia. Our intelligence for a long time for the headquarters of the army group (headquarters of the Eastern Group of Forces) will take a third-rate headquarters, which could well play at that time the role of the fictitious headquarters of the army group ...

In conclusion, I want to say a few words about General Blaskowice, who expressed his categorical protest against the atrocities of the police and SS Sonderkommando in Poland. He reported this to the Führer, which caused him irritation ... 15 days after Blaskovits was appointed commander of the 9 Army, he would be removed from his post and sent to the reserve of the High Command. Only 24.9.40 g. He will be appointed commander of the 1 Army. Frank was appointed Governor-General of Poland. During the conflict between the leadership of the Wehrmacht and the SS, he would support Himmler, recommending Hitler to transfer the uncomfortable Blaskowitz from Poland, which he later regretted several times. C. Frank is the only one sentenced to death at the Nuremberg Tribunal, who fully admitted his guilt and repented of his deed ...

German troops in Poland and East Prussia

6.10.39 g. The war in Poland ended. In October and November, German associations and formations began to redeploy to the West and Germany. After the redeployment of large headquarters in Poland and East Prussia, only the 5 Army remained, which in November will be reorganized into the 18 Army and sent to the West.

By checking the location of all the existing Wehrmacht divisions, it was possible to find those that were deployed in East Prussia and Poland. The date of their departure from these territories is not always indicated in the sources. Most often indicated are the dates of their appearance elsewhere.

161-I PD - In December 1939 and in January 1940, she was in East Prussia, and in May she is in Germany. Also in East Prussia there is the 141-I reserve division, which was reorganized from the 151-th division.

On the territory of the governor general were:

— 1-I, 12-I, 46-I, 61-I, 68-I и 258-I PD - until December 1939 of the year. In December, they are celebrated in Germany and in the West;

— 197-I и 223-I PD - in December 1939 and in January 1940 are celebrated in Poland, and in March 1940 of the year are in Germany;

— 198-I PD - 12.39 and 1.40, and in April - in Germany;

— 50-I, 217-I, 218-I, 221-I, 228-I и 239-I PD - 9.39 and 1.40, and in May - are in Germany;

— 231-I PD - 11.39 g., And 5.40 g. - in Germany;

— 255-I PD - 9.39 g., And 5.40 g. - in the Netherlands;

— 206-I и 213-I PD - with 9.39 and 1.40, and in June - in Germany;

— 209-I PD - from 19.9.39 to June 1940, and in July - in Germany.

In addition, the formation of ten new DDs was begun.

301-I PD - began the formation of 6.10.39 in East Prussia (Koenigsberg). However, the division was disbanded immediately after the formation began.

311-I PD - began the formation of 1.11.39 in East Prussia. On March 8, the division was reorganized and 9.6.40 sent to a training camp in Germany, and 7.8.40 was disbanded.

358-I PD - began the formation of 10.3.40 in East Prussia. On June 1 the division was transferred to Germany and 23.8.40 was disbanded.

395-I PD - reorganized from the 521 th front (Austria) and 16.3.40 redeployed to East Prussia, and the July 22 disbanded.

399-I PD - began the formation of 15.3.40 in East Prussia, and on August 8 was disbanded.

351-I PD - began the formation of 10.3.40 in Poland (Czestochowa). June 1 relocated to Germany, and 21.8.40 was disbanded.

365-I PD - began the formation of 10.3.40 in Poland (Tarnow). In July, relocated to Germany, and 1 August was disbanded.

379-I PD - began the formation of 15.3.40 in Poland (Lublin). July 10 was relocated to Germany and 15.8.40 was disbanded.

386-I PD - Started the formation of 1.4.40 in Poland (Warsaw). In July, relocated to Germany and 13.8.40 was disbanded.

393-I PD - Started the formation of 10.3.40 in Poland (Warsaw). In July, relocated to Germany and 1 August was disbanded.

As can be seen from the materials presented, the number of divisions in Poland and East Prussia by June 1940 was extremely small. There was not a single headquarters of field armies or army corps.

It should be noted that during the period under review, the division headquarters were reorganized: 16.1.40 g. ZbV422 - to the headquarters zbV 401 (Koenigsberg), 1.2.40 g. ZbV424 - to the headquarters of the 379 th front (Poland), 1.6.40 g. ZbV425 - to the headquarters of the spare parts command 100 (Poland).

When considering German formations, regiments and battalions (not part of the divisions) that could be located in the indicated territories were not considered.

According to the 5th Office of the Red Army, as of 15.6.40 in East Prussia and Poland, there were 27 front. It can be seen that in the Republic of Moldova the number of German divisions was greatly overestimated.

RM about German troops in January – June 1940

Consider several intelligence messages and evaluate the reliability of the information contained in them.

Special message 5-th Office of the Red Army (January 1940 g.):

Taking into account the divisions located on the territory of former Poland and in East Prussia (up to 28 divisions, of which on the territory of former Poland - 22 divisions) ...

In fact, on the territory of East Prussia and Poland as of January 1940 of the year there is 16 front and one division at the formation stage. Perhaps reconnaissance has also detected the reorganization of two divisional headquarters ... If we take into account all the indicated divisions and headquarters, then the data differ from the information in the Republic of Moldova only for 9 divisions. It is likely that intelligence did not track the departure of part of the German divisions until December 1939 or took spare parts for the presence of divisions.

The difference in the data of nine divisions over a large territory with numerous troop movements in all directions in the fall of 1939 is a pretty good result. It is possible that during this period the Germans only began to play with our intelligence, using false epaulettes in some cases. In the spring, the amount of misinformation increases.

Special message 5-th Office of the Red Army (3.5.40 g.):

... According to a noteworthy source, on April 11, from the Zamost region, he left for the Western Front 209 front, instead of which came 110, 210, 219 and 88 pp (the division number of which they are part is not established) ...

When rechecking RM, the author found:

1) 209 I was actually in Poland until June 1940 and then departed for Germany. She did not go to the Western Front, since already in July she was disbanded. RM confirmed: the division was in Poland. However, it completely disappeared from the governor general only after 1,5 months;

2) 88th Infantry Regiment (pp) was part of the 15-th front, which in January 1940 was in Germany and Luxembourg, and since June - in France. It is unlikely that between the two marks this regiment arrived for some reason in Poland ... Perhaps this was a fictitious formation;

3) The 110-th PP is part of the 33-th PD, which has been in Belgium and France since January 1940. In November 1940, the division will return to Germany and will be reorganized into the 15 th;

4) 210-th and 219-th points - in the Wehrmacht, points with such numbers never existed ...

Information about the availability of the 210 and 219 go is misinformation, and the indication of their exact numbers indicates a deliberate tossing of such information by the German intelligence service. This is understandable. In May, the German offensive in the West is expected and all that can be transferred there and as reserves on German territory. Perhaps that is why ten divisions are being formed, which will be disbanded in the summer.

Special message 5-th Office of the Red Army (11.5.40 g.):

According to the KOVO intelligence department, 46, 77 and 134 infantry regiments, 18 cavalry regiment, ... 25 and 84 infantry regiments ...

In 1940, there was no cavalry regiment No. 18.

The 46-th pp from the 30-th pd could not be in Poland. 30-th FROM 10.10.39 to May 1940 is located in the Netherlands, moves to Belgium in May and then is deployed to France on 1941 for a year.

The 77-th pp from the 26-th pd also cannot be in Poland. 26 is located in Germany, in May 1940 departs for Luxembourg and further to Belgium.

The same situation is with the 134 mn from the 44 md, which was in Germany in December-January, and in May it is noted in France. In France, it will remain until March 1941.

Special message 5-th Office of the Red Army (17.5.40 g.):

... According to a noteworthy source, the grouping of the German army on May 5 was as follows: - in the territory of former Poland - 20 infantry divisions and 2 tank divisions ...

From December 1939 to June 1940, there were no tank divisions in Poland. With the three hundred divisions being formed, the total number in Poland could be around 16.

Special message 5-th Office of the Red Army (June 1940 g.):

... The German command during May and early June made significant troop transfers to the western front from the territory of former Poland, the protectorate, Austria and East Prussia. The following units were dispatched: 239th Infantry Division from the Sanok-Dubetsk-Krosno area in early May; about three infantry regiments from Tarnov during the period from 13 to 16 in May; 221, 375 and 360th infantry regiments from Lublin at the end of May; 161 and 162-th infantry regiments from the Suwalki region, Seyna 16 May ...

239-I in May 1940 year could be in Poland in the specified period. There could also be in Poland the 360th and 375th pp from the 221th pd.

221-th infantry is not in the list of Wehrmacht infantry regiments.

The 161-th pp from the 81-th pd, which since May 18 has been in France, and before that it was deployed in Germany.

The 162-th PP from the 61-th PD is in Germany in January, and in May in Belgium, then in France.

50% of true information and 50% of untrue ... The situation with numbered infantry regiments is the same as was discussed above. Where information is visually recorded from the shoulder straps of military personnel, there is more misinformation.

20.6.40 g. The first division arrives in the border zone - 62-I pd.

RM about German troops in July – September 1940

Special message 5-th Office of the Red Army (27.7.40 g.):

... In the area of ​​Sanok, Krasno, Duklja, Jaslo - parts of 239 and 241 infantry. divisions ... In the area of ​​Yaroslav, Przemysl 20.7. arrival to four infantry marked. regiments, two art. regiments and one tank regiment. In addition, the headquarters of 4 and 7 infantry were marked in Krakow. divisions ... Thus, in East Prussia on the territory of former Poland to 23.7. set to 50 infantry. divisions ...

Four new infantry divisions appeared: 4-I, 7-I, 239-I and 241-I.

Since December 4, the 1939th Front went to Germany, where in August 1940 of the year it was reorganized into the 14th Tank Division.

7 I - from October 1939, I left Poland and was in the Netherlands, Belgium and Northern France. From Northern France only 14.4.41 g. It will be sent to Poland.

239 I - from September 1939 to 1.1.40, it was in Poland. Then it was sent to Germany, and with 4.4.41 it will be sent to Bukovina and further to Slovakia. Only in June will it arrive at our border.

The 241-th front never existed in the Wehrmacht ... In the RM four new divisions are mentioned and again all are fake ...

It should be noted that the number of divisions 50 is excessively overpriced, since only by 1.11.40 will they be at the border of everything 32. In September, intelligence counts up to 83-90 German divisions at the border ...

В Help The 5th Directorate of the Red Army as of 8.8.40 was repeating information about the presence of one army headquarters headquarters (eastern group headquarters) and two army headquarters against ZAPOVO and KOVO at our border.

Since the numbers of the armies are known (note 2), these are the 1-I army (Warsaw) and 4-I (Krakow). These armies were mentioned in RM from 20.7.40. The reliability of this information was carried out in the previous part.

The summary indicates that in Poland and East Prussia intelligence was found nine AK headquarters, of which six with famous numbers. In RM, the numbers of five AKs were previously called: 3, 7, 20, 21, and 32.

In July 1940, five AKs arrived at the border territory: 3X, 17, 26, 30 and 44. Of the five issues, only one coincided - the 3-th AK! From June - July, it seems that our intelligence was faced with mass misinformation using fictitious epaulettes of military personnel ...

Cavdivis Intelligence Counted two, single in the Wehrmacht, the 1-th Cavalry Division will arrive from the West only in the month of September ...

Headquarters of infantry divisions counted 39, of which 24 with known numbers. In RM from 20.7.40, 11 division numbers were given. Of the 11 numbers, not one could be in the territory under consideration. It turns out that during this period, German generals began to play big against our intelligence ...

In the month of July, a large enough movement of German troops to the border territory takes place. Fifteen pd arrives: 68, 75, 76, 161, 162, 168, 183, 251, 252, 257, 258 me, 291 and 297. In August, another one will arrive - 298-I fr.

В communication 5-th department of the GUGB NKVD from 24.8.40 speaks of 75-German divisions only in Poland: "... The German ambassador in Belgrade informed the Minister of War of Yugoslavia that the Germans concentrated in Poland 75 divisions, of which 18 were motorized. ...". Our intelligence is also aware of the presence in East Prussia of the 19 German division (16-ty front and three armored). In total, there are 94 divisions at our border ...

And only field divisions near our border seventeen! More coming in September seventeen: twelve infantry (1-I, 2-I, 13-I, 21-I, 31-I, 32-I, 50-I, 56-I, 217-I, 262-I, 268-I and 299- I) and five tank (1-I, 2-I, 5-I, 6-I and 9-I). Later, the 2-I and 13-I fr. They will become the 12 and 13 tank divisions.

Consider Summary Reconnaissance of the General Staff of the spacecraft from 11.9.40:

The grouping of the German army on the 1.9.40 ...

In East Prussia, i.e. against PribOVO and on the flank of the ZAPOVO, over 16 infantry divisions are concentrated, up to three tank divisions ... This group makes up the army of Colonel General Kühler. Army Headquarters (number not installed) in Koenigsberg ...

The northern and middle part of the Governor-General ..., i.e. mainly against the ZAPOVO concentrated over 21 infantry divisions, two armored divisions, up to one motorized division ... This group is combined into two armies whose headquarters are in Warsaw (the headquarters of the 1 army) and, presumably, in Radom. Commander - Colonel General Blaskowitz ...

The middle and southern parts of the Governor-General ..., i.e. more than 20 infantry divisions, up to two tank divisions, up to one motorized division are concentrated against KOVO ... This grouping is combined into two armies whose headquarters are in Krakow (the headquarters of the 4 army) and in Lublin (presumably the 3 army).

In the depths of the territory of former Poland, in the areas of Danzig, Thorn and Poznan, are concentrated two army corps (at least five infantry divisions).

The commander of all German troops in the East (in East Prussia and in the territory of former Poland), presumably, is Field Marshal Rundstedt, with headquarters in Lodz.

The Protectorate (Czech Republic and Moravia) and the former Austria are concentrated up to 20 infantry divisions and up to two tank divisions ... Presumably, the army headquarters in Prague ...

The grouping against Pribovo and the flank of ZAPOVO is “The army of Colonel General Kühler. Army Headquarters (number not installed) in Koenigsberg » - we are talking about the 18 Army, which, since the July 21, began its relocation to East Prussia.

Grouping against ZAPOV “United in two armies, whose headquarters are in Warsaw (headquarters of the 1 army) and, presumably, in Radom. Commander - Colonel General Blaskowitz. The 1 Army is located in the West, and General Bleskovitz has yet to command it.

Grouping against KOVO "United in two armies, whose headquarters are in Krakow (headquarters of the 4 army) and in Lublin (presumably - 3 army)".

What four armies against ZAPOVO and KOVO are in question is completely unclear. The redeployment of the 4 Army will not begin until October. Since the Republic of Moldova is talking about the non-existent 3 Army, which intelligence will observe until 21.6.41 (inclusive) in the city of Lublin, other armies are likely to be fictitious associations. Perhaps some of them are corps headquarters ... A review of the headquarters of the armies and army corps awaits us in the next part.

The summary also refers to the commander of the Eastern Group headquarters:

"The commander of all German troops in the East (in East Prussia and in the territory of former Poland), presumably, is Field Marshal Rundstedt, with headquarters in Lodz ..."

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Rundstedt during this period was the commander of the occupation forces in France and responsible for coastal defense in the Netherlands, Belgium and France. Intelligence repeated in a somewhat distorted form the information from the decree of the Fuhrer. Since there is no significant person in the post "commander of all German troops in the East", Then this information is a clear misinformation. Our scouts do not know and will not know until the outbreak of war that in August 1940, the redeployment of the command of Army Group B to East Prussia began. This command will lead troops on the Soviet-German demarcation line until the summer of 1941.

To be continued ...

Comments

[polpot]

Thanks, very interesting, we look forward to continuing.

[Aerodrome]

Polpot...cambodian politician and statesman. quickly you learn the material .. I "stuck" longer. and accustomed to the Soviet version, somehow did not fully understand this.

[Aerodrome]

Since there is no significant person at the post of “commander of all German troops in the East,” this information is a clear mischief. Our scouts do not know and will not know until the outbreak of war that in August 1940 the redeployment of the command of Army Group B to East Prussia began. This command will lead troops on the Soviet-German demarcation line until the summer of 1941.

Stirlitz, hanged himself, on the road to Berlin .... damn ...

[Plantagenet]

“On the streets are the first wounded who arrived from the front. I give the loaf to a peasant on a crutch, with a bandaged head, I ask: "Where from?" - "From under Polotsk." - “How are you at the front?” - “What are you doing?” Our army is running. ” I pull back. “How does it run like that?” - “Yes, like that. The German drives us, he drives us with one whistle. ”

It is impossible to believe. Great, invincible Red Army? But by the end of July, and the terrible truth was revealed: the Germans in Smolensk, the Germans at the walls of Leningrad, Kiev and Odessa. In one month they traveled such distances - what is happening? In a nightmare, this could not be dreamed of ...

But we still did not really know anything - for example, we did not know that on the very first day of the war - on the first day! - we lost almost two thousand planes, and in the “cauldron” near Minsk the Germans captured more than 300 thousands of our soldiers and commanders, and in June and July we lost more than a million people killed, wounded and captured, lost five and a half thousand tanks and five thousand guns. Not even knowing the truth, people still understood that the war was not going on at all as it was thought. Everyone in the morning eagerly picked up military reports on the radio, absolutely idiotic: on the one hand, they continuously reported on the successes of our troops, about the fantastic losses of the "Nazi army"; here our propaganda has reached the pillars of lies of Hercules - after all, according to reports, the Germans, three months after the start of the war, should not have any troops left at all. On the other hand, the names of the cities where the fighting took place spoke for themselves: farther and farther east. ”

Georgy Ilyich Mirsky “Life in three eras”

[Aerodrome]

Quote: Plantagenet

It’s impossible to believe.

believe me. we "made" the Nazi geyrope .. but we got another one in return ... not better .. but this is the second "chapter" ... or the third ... but it doesn't matter who retreated, it is important who signed the enemy gates. ..no ?

[ccsr]

Quote: Plantagenet

Georgy Ilyich Mirsky “Life in three eras”

These are memoirs of a civilian who at that time had no idea what information the top military leadership had and that for propaganda purposes it was impossible to communicate to the public. All armies of the world practice this during the war - what is the value of the testimonies of this historian describing the rumors and reports of the Sovinformburo?

[Edward Vashchenko]

Really strange evidence: why Mirsky? not Konstantin Simonov, for example.
What did Mirsky know and could draw a conclusion from the story of one soldier?

[Plantagenet]

You can give Simonov’s testimony about the first days of the war. Does anyone bother?

[ccsr]

Quote: Aerodrome

and accustomed to the Soviet version, as it did not fully understand this.

The author’s version is just a bunch of nonsense, because he still firmly believes that it is the presentation of information about the number of a division or corps that is most important in reconnaissance, although any military professional knows that the main thing is to know the number and staffing of opposing formations. And this applies to both the commanders of the border protection divisions who met the Germans on June 22, and the country's top military leadership.
The Ministry of Defense laid a big pig for the author’s fantasies, having just laid out a number of documents on the entry of troops into Poland, where there is a handwritten document by B.M. Shaposhnikov, which just proves well that intelligence had to be obtained.
As you can see from the text, the author’s lies about the numbers of divisions and regiments that intelligence allegedly didn’t establish are debunked by a document of a strategic level, where the conversion is made to divisions, not to Wehrmacht tank groups or their numbers, because it’s more important for strategists to know the total number of troops, than their organizational associations.

II. Armed Forces
The most likely opponents in the West - Germany and Poland in wartime deploy in the 1 line:
Germany - 96 pd, 5 cav. Div., 5 motor divisions., 30 tank. and 3000 aircraft.
Poland - 65 pd, 16 cav. brig., 1450 tanks and wedges, 1650 aircraft.
Total - 161 pd, 13 cav. div., 7250 tanks and wedges, 4650 aircraft.
Of these forces, Germany and Poland will be forced to leave part of the forces on their western borders, and perhaps some of them will be brought into action to fight the Czechoslovak Army.
It can be assumed that up to 26 divisions, 1 cavalry division, 1 motor division will be sent by Germany against the Czechoslovak Army. and at least 800 aircraft. The Germans will leave 10 to 20 infantry divisions on the French border.
Thus, from 96 divisions of divisions up to 36–46 pd will be left by Germany on the western and southern borders and up to 60–65 infantry divisions, 4 cavalry. division., 4 motor divisions, up to 20 tank battalions and up to 2100 aircraft will be sent against our borders.
As for Poland, it is likely that from its 65 infantry divisions up to 5 pd, it will leave against Czechoslovakia, and the remaining forces, i.e. up to 60 infantry divisions, 16 cav. brigades, up to 1300 tanks and wedges and up to 1600 aircraft deployed on our borders.
Thus, the latter should expect the appearance of 120–110 infantry divisions, 12 cavalry. division., 5400 tanks and wedges and 3700 aircraft.
Finland, Estonia and Latvia are deploying 20 infantry divisions, 80 tanks and 436 aircraft.
Romania can deploy up to 35 infantry divisions, 200 tanks and 639 aircraft.

http://pakt1939.mil.ru/

[A1Lukno]

And where is the evidence that the intelligence data you provided is correct? Why do not you provide real data on the number of German divisions?
I read your answers and drew attention to a couple of points.
You argued with the user and issued an axiom (from your point of view, but from mine far-fetched). It is about your phrase that the intelligence even knew the names of the German commanders and as a confirmation you brought a scan of the intelligence message. I flipped through a collection of military intelligence reports. A pair of surnames of division commanders for more than one hundred divisions. This knowledge of the names of the commanders of the Wehrmacht divisions is less than 2% of the total. Is this accurate intelligence information about enemy troops?
I want to say this: the boy do not go into adult conversations and go to school.
You were correctly indicated that the name of the division commander has changed since March 11, but this was not found in the intelligence documents until the end of June. Maybe before the war. The commander of the 257th PD has been in this position since the fall of 1939. Maybe his name was learned two years ago and there was no more intelligence information? Is this reliable intelligence information?
And your statement about the possibility of a mistake made by the typist - again I want to say: boy go to school!
When you were correctly told that the documents for the bulletin are rechecked for errors by the contractor and his boss at least. Your answer followed, that the respondent does not know how the typists work.
It turns out that pre-war intelligence was a bunch of people who are not responsible for anything.
The driver’s mistake - this is normal and always in intelligence. It’s a mistake in the surname, then instead of 161 pd they print 161 pd - is it all the same? I’ll say it again: boy go to school and do homework!
Scrolled through the graphs of the concentration of German troops in the first 4 parts, and there are straight straight lines all June. The number of divisions near our border has not increased. Is this also the correct intelligence data from your point of view?
And the data on the Germans having 296 divisions are also correct? Boy: how many German divisions did the Germans have?
And what about the 180 divisions of the Germans alone to attack our country? Also true and correct ...
And how many German troops were there before the attack?
And what kind of intelligence data is generally correct?
Give and compare with known information. It’s just interesting, but they say several times that you can’t analyze it.
The last two parts featured many German troops. Show us: where the author lied. Check on Wikipedia and show. We are happy to see this and understand that Eugene is lying.
And while this is not there, I want to say: boy go to school!

[A1Lukno]

Germany - 96 pd, 5 cav. Div., 5 motor divisions., 30 tank. and 3000 aircraft.

According to ccsr, he provides accurate intelligence data.
The Germans only have 30 tanks and 3000 aircraft - a Douai strategy.
Or even 30 tank divisions.
For an intelligence error, this is not a significant error ... And he brought reliable data ??
The boy go to school and do not go into adult conversations with his stupidities!

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Germany - 96 pd, 5 cav. Div., 5 motor divisions., 30 tank. and 3000 aircraft.
According to ccsr, he provides accurate intelligence data.

He cites the data that intelligence provided him, and which is reliable. You can’t refute these data at all, that's why you are lying that intelligence has not reported anything there, although there is a huge array of declassified pre-war documents regarding the German armed forces and its military potential, but you are not able to correctly understand them. What can you talk about if you cannot understand how the appointment and change of commander takes place in 15 days, and you think that intelligence is simply obligated to immediately report such changes. Only now the question to the author of the article, where did he get that we had to have an agent in every German headquarters, best describes the adequacy of people like him and you.

[A1Lukno]

When there is nothing to present, then you should immediately run away on an allegedly important topic! Clown!
Neither in the article nor in the discussion is there a single word about the reproach of the intelligence that she did not find out about the commander of the 4th Army Blaskowice in 15 days. These are all your words and a refutation of your silly fabrications.
Boy go to school !!

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Neither in the article nor in the discussion is there a single word about the reproach of intelligence that she did not find out about the commander of the 4th Army Blaskowice in 15 days.

You are lying, a swindler - the whole cycle of articles is just riddled with the main idea that it was intelligence that missed the preparations for Germany for war, and because of this the tragedy of 1941 allegedly happened.

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

And where is the evidence that the intelligence data you provided is correct? Why do not you provide real data on the number of German divisions?

I believe B.M.Shaposhnikov, who was more experienced than any of the writers here, and as a strategist, he set the task for intelligence structures. As for the data on the German divisions, that is, the report of the military attaché in Germany A. Gerasimov to the narcotic Voroshilov, where the data is given for February 10, 1939. So search for yourself and compare intelligence materials from different reports in the period 1939-1941, and do not blame unfounded that intelligence did not report something.

Quote: A1Lukno

It is about your phrase that the intelligence even knew the names of the German commanders and as a confirmation you brought a scan of the intelligence message. I flipped through a collection of military intelligence reports. A pair of surnames of division commanders for more than one hundred divisions. This knowledge of the names of the commanders of the Wehrmacht divisions is less than 2% of the total. Is this accurate intelligence information about enemy troops?

Since you are an ordinary amateur in the conduct of intelligence, then once again, especially for the illiterate, I inform you that intelligence structures (army, district, GRU, branches of the armed forces) keep forms for all intelligence objects, and all incoming information is entered there after processing and verification. But due to the fact that the size of the summary is limited by the number of typewritten sheets, all available material cannot be placed in it purely physically. Yes, and the chief of staff of the district does not need to know some small details that the chief of intelligence has in order to make the right decision - he thinks in different categories, and he does not care what the name of the German division commander is, but what kind of division it is and its staffing level is greater. worries when making a decision. So you can continue flipping through the intelligence reports, but you don't understand them at all, although you are trying to portray an "expert".

Quote: A1Lukno

I want to say this: the boy do not go into adult conversations and go to school.
You were correctly indicated that the name of the division commander has changed since March 11, but this was not found in the intelligence documents until the end of June.

You are lying in the most unscrupulous way - the author of the article has not submitted any documentary evidence to his words, even though I asked him about this more than once.

Quote: A1Lukno

Give and compare with known information. It’s just interesting, but they say several times that you can’t analyze it.

I do not care what the various amateurs say - I can not discuss with them what they simply have wild ideas about. For example, one illiterate woman with a clever face claimed that since the alarm was not announced on June 21 in the air defense of the Moscow District, it means that the USSR did not prepare for war. And the fact that the Germans were able to carry out the first air raid on Moscow only a month after the start of the war from airfields located on the territory of the USSR did not make any sense to her, because she had no idea what the organization of massive bombardment was and what the aircraft had.

Quote: A1Lukno

The last two parts featured many German troops. Show us: where the author lied. Check on Wikipedia and show. We are happy to see this and understand that Eugene is lying.

So I have repeatedly cited scans of documents, but from the authors of the article, apart from some clippings from the murzilok, nothing has yet been presented. Maybe you will get more pleasure when he at least gives a link from where he gets his "facts"?

Quote: A1Lukno

And while this is not there, I want to say: boy go to school!

Calm down, "girl" - it's too early for you to tell me where to go, for you are an ordinary layman in military affairs.

[A1Lukno]

Yes, all here do not care what you believe!
Let's get the facts!
And believe even in the green man, at least in the fact that there is a universal conspiracy against you. Nobody is interested in this. If you claim to insult people, then present the facts!
Otherwise, I will file a complaint about your boorish behavior and you will be banned for a couple of weeks.
We communicate here and should not listen to insults from any schoolchildren.

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Otherwise, I will file a complaint about your boorish behavior and you will be banned for a couple of weeks.

You don’t have to do anything else, because you are helpless in refuting my texts, and like all crooks, immediately run to complain to the administration when you are caught in ignorance.

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Scrolled through the graphs of the concentration of German troops in the first 4 parts, and there are straight straight lines all June. The number of divisions near our border has not increased. Is this also the correct intelligence data from your point of view?

You didn’t leaf through anything, but most likely you came up with it for the sake of the lies that the author of the articles spreads.
And it is not difficult for me to prove this if we take the data of intelligence reports No. 5 of June 15 and a map with German units on June 20, 1941.
If on June 1 there were 120-122 divisions on our border, then according to June 20 there were already 125-128 divisions, and the total number that could be used against the USSR reached 159-165 divisions. If you are smart enough, you will guess that the increase in the grouping of troops was monitored constantly.

Quote: A1Lukno

Show us: where the author lied. Check wikipedia and show. We will be happy to see this and understand that Eugene is lying.

Leave Wikipedia for kindergarten - here are the original documents:

Quote: A1Lukno

Boy: how many German divisions did the Germans have in total?

So study the documents carefully, "girl" ...

[AsmyppoL]

First of all, you took the map given by you, as well as maps about the 16th army from the links from my article. So why should I be educated about the materials that I have carefully studied ??
Try to prove that you discovered these cards before posting links in my article!

Second. The data shown on the map practically coincided with my calculations, which are also given in the article before the publication of the maps and a year and a half ago in the article on intelligence. You just can't analyze and count ...

Third. Our intelligence was unable to obtain accurate data on the German groupings and this follows from the map. You, as a person who do not have military knowledge, simply cannot figure it out.
For example, from the sheet attached to the map, it follows that a total of 41 tank and motorized divisions could be used against the USSR. Of these, in Romania and in the southern part of Poland, according to the data on the map, there are 28 of these divisions, which is 69% of the German tank and motorized divisions.
In fact, in southern Poland and to the south, there were 9 tank and motorized divisions as part of the 1st Panzer Group. Intelligence was wrong more than 3 times. This is a gross mistake!

Against the PribOVO and ZAPOVO, reconnaissance counted to the maximum 13 tank and motorized divisions. In fact, there were up to 24 of them. And this is also a gross mistake!

At the place where the 4th Panzer Group entered, reconnaissance discovered one tank and two motorized divisions, and there were six of them! Another blunder!

At the place where the 3rd tank group entered, the reconnaissance found two motorized divisions and a tank battalion. In fact, there were 7 divisions at the point of entry of the tank group! A gross mistake that led to the defeat of our troops in the sector of the entry of German mobile troops!

At the place where the 2nd tank group entered, the reconnaissance found 2 tank regiments and a tank brigade. Tanks into two tank divisions according to intelligence, but without motorized artillery and motorized infantry.
In fact, there were 9 armored motorized divisions!
An unforgivable mistake that led to the encirclement of the ZAPOVO troops !!!

At the place where the 1st tank group entered, the reconnaissance found one tank division and three motorized divisions. In fact, there were 9 of them! Incorrect intelligence data led to the defeat of the mechanized corps of the South-Western Front ...
An unforgivable mistake!

Do you consider the intelligence data reliable, which led to the defeat of our troops at the border? !! Then our European and overseas partners will be happy to applaud you!

You write that “I have repeatedly said that the General Staff is only interested in divisions, armies and their groups. On the map of the General Staff, everything is exactly like that, so your groans that some regiment is not indicated or not found, and it’s not worth a damn .. . "

I replied that your knowledge does not allow you to draw any conclusions.
The inscription "tank battalion" is clearly marked on the Suvalka ledge, to the west, in different regions, there are four more "tank regiments".
A similar situation is with Brest - there are no tank divisions there.

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

First of all, you took the map given by you, as well as maps about the 16th army from the links from my article.

This once again confirms that you are a forger and a liar, since you knew about this map and lied about the route of the 16th Army. The degree of your lies will not change from this, wherever I find this card.
And your articles are too illiterate and primitive for me to believe you, knowing how you can lie to please your point of view.

Quote: AsmyppoL
Try to prove that you discovered these cards before posting links in my article!

I discussed these cards with Kozinkin long before you - you thought too much of yourself, although I have already told you more than once that you are too illiterate for me to refer to your fantasies. But the point is not in this, but in the fact that when you lied about the route of the 16th Army, you did not see these maps, and now you cheaply fell for lies along with Chekunov and Isaev.

Quote: AsmyppoL
Third. Our intelligence was unable to obtain accurate data on the German groupings and this follows from the map.

This is a heinous lie, because the map shows not only divisions, but also armies and army groups of the Wehrmacht with reference to the terrain. The General Staff does not need any other data - they are interested in the general picture, and not in your fantasies about some battalion.

Quote: AsmyppoL
Do you consider the intelligence data reliable, which led to the defeat of our troops at the border? !! Then our European and overseas partners will be happy to applaud you!

You are just a pathetic falsifier of our military history, and now you are trying to get out after you and your group were caught in yet another lie.
Will you refute the map that I brought?
How about your lies that the General Staff did not have any information about the German groupings on June 22 from the General Staff of the General Staff, but there was only one intelligence report No. 5? How will you dodge with this card?

[AsmyppoL]

ccsr, which is Milchakov, as usual puts any facts just to litter topics. As usual without any comment. When its user asked to say something about his message - in response to rudeness. Typical behavior of a troll-sofa expert ...
I stopped responding to his nonsense, but only for regular readers I decided to comment on his unverified message.

The fact that he believes all sorts of rubbish without checking intelligence materials (Goals Difference) Is his own business. In the article, we deal mainly with verified information and a large number of facts. Let it not like him and other writers, because leads to the complete collapse of their sand versions in published science fiction books ... What did Milchakov dig up?

«... Memorandum by the chief of the General Staff of the Red Army commander of the 1 rank B.M. Shaposhnikov from March 24 1938 to the People’s Commissar of Defense of the USSR and Marshal of the Soviet Union K.E. Voroshilov, regarding the current political situation in Europe and the Far East. The actions of the most likely adversary - the states of the fascist bloc (Germany, Italy) and Japan and Poland supporting them, as well as the vacillating policy towards the USSR of a number of other states of Europe and the Middle East are examined. The assessment of the armed forces of potential opponents, their possible plans of military operations, and in accordance with this the deployment options of the Red Army troops in the event of large-scale operations ...»

“... II. Armed Forces
The most likely opponents in the West - Germany and Poland in wartime deploy in the 1 line:
Germany - 96 front, 5 cavalry div., 5 engine divisions, 30 tank. and 3000 aircraft ... "

It turns out 106 German divisions at 24.3.38 In view of the lack of sources in our Wehrmacht’s intelligence, reconnaissance materials are again very different from the actual state of affairs in the German armed forces.

A good picture is described in the article “German Army in September 1938 - Log Book - LiveJournal"( https://fat-yankey.livejournal.com/79171.html )

The material is provided specifically for regular readers. The author double-checked the material from the indicated article and supplemented it in order to show that he saw the primary sources.

The author, before presenting the material, would have noted:
1) Landver divisions were intended for deployment after the war during mobilization. According to German sources, they were only planned for deployment, but never deployed.
2) The following Landwehr divisions could not be found: 70th, 69th and 61st. At the same time, the 1rd, 3nd and 22th Landwehr divisions from the 67st Military District are not listed in the materials.
3) It was not possible to find the 9th motorized division - perhaps this is the 9th infantry division, formed in 1934 in the city of Hesse.
4) Failed to find all five reserve divisions.
The following abbreviations will be used in the materials: for - Landwehr Division, md - motorized division, pd - infantry division td - tank division.

[AsmyppoL]

AG "Silesia" - 16-I, 30-I and 72-I for dl - from the 8-th military district.

2-I army. 3 I - formed 1.10.34 in Frankfurt, 8 I - 1.10.34 in Oppeln, 12 I - Schwerning, 1.10.34 I - 18 Görlitz, 1.10.34 I - 28 Breslau-1.10.36, 30 front - 1.10.36 Lübeck, 32 1st - 1.10.36 Keslin, 3 1st - 15.10.35 - Wünsdorf, 3 1st Light Division - 10.11.38 - Zottbus, 70 1st (?).

4th building. 4 1st - October 1934 Dresden, 24 1st - 15.10.35 Chemnitz.

8-I army. 14 I - 1.10.34 Leipzig, 16 I - October 1934 Münster, 19 I - 1.10.34 Hanover, 23 I - 15.10.35 Poddam, 20 I - autumn 1937 reordered from 20

10-I army. 5 I - 1.10.34 Uln, 10 I - October 1934 Regensburg, 15 I - 1.10.34 Würzburg, 17 I - 1.10.34 Nürberng, 25 I - 1.4.36 Ludwingsburg, 31X I -th - 1.10.36 Karlsruhe, 35-md - reorganized from the 1.10.36-th front 2, 2-md - probably 12.10.37-th, 9-md - reorganized from 9-th in October 13, 13-th - 1937 Weimar, 1 I Light Division - 15.10.35 Wuppertal.

12-I army. 7 I - 1.10.34 Munich, 27 I 1.10.36 - Augsburg, 45 I - 1.4.38 - Linz, 1 I Mountain - 9.4.38 Garmisch-Partenkirchen, 69 I (?).

14-I army. 44 I-th - 1.4.38 Vin, 2 I-rifle division - 1.4.38 Innsburg, 3 I-rifle - 1.4.38 Graz, 29 md - re-formed from 29-th fall in the 1937 of the year, 2-th TD - 15.10.35 I Light Division - 2 Hera, 10.11.38 I Light Division - 4 East Prussia.

[AsmyppoL]

West.
1-I army. 33 I - 1.4.36 Darmstadt, 34 I - 1.4.36 Koblenz, 36 I - 1.10.36 Kaiserslautern, 11 I (9 Military District), 26 I (12 I, dL (78 th VO), 2 th dL (84 th VO).

5-I army. 6 I - 1.10.34 Bielefeld, 26 I - 1.4.36 Cologne, 41 I (4 VO), 57 I and 92 I (6 VO).

7-I army. 14-I and 45-I for (5-th VO), 97-th for (7-th VO).

East.
3-I army. 1 I - 1.10.34 Koenigsberg, 11 I - 1.10.34 Allenstein, 21 I - 1.10.34 Elblong, 61 DL (?).

4-I army. 22 I - 1.10.34 Bremen, 4 I - 10.11.38 Wurzburg, 1 and 99 I (3 VO).

General reserve. 34-th for (4-th VO), 37-th for (13-th VO), 53-th for (10-th VO).

Not included 5-I TD 18.10.38 formed by Oppeln.
Not included in the account and 46-I PD formed by 24.11.38 Carlsbad.

I will give data on divisions with large numbers, but with a later creation date (to show you that there were no more divisions):
4-I mountain rifle - 1940 year, 5-I light division - 18.2.41, 1-I cavalry division - 25.10.39;
38-th and 39-th front - 7.7.42, 41-th front - 1945 year, 47 and 48-th front - 1.2.44.

What conclusions should be made? Intelligence does not know about five etc., but for some reason "knows" about five cavalry divisions.

If we take into account the undeployed leader and reserve divisions, then by 1.4.38 there were only sixty-seven divisions in Germany, and the report (according to intelligence) refers to 106 divisions. Overstatement by 58%. If you do not take into account undeployed divisions, then it’s a shame to even consider the magnitude of the error ... That is why Milchakov is rude, since he actually knows the truth. I advise you not to pay attention to messages of this user messages from now on ...

[A1Lukno]

The ruins of the boor Milchakov’s version are satisfied!

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

What conclusions should be made? Intelligence does not know about five etc., but for some reason "knows" about five cavalry divisions.

You are definitely an illiterate dilettante, because you have not yet understood that under the name of "cavalry division" lies primarily the mobility of this unit and its numbers. But this is not the point, but the fact that:

In March 1941, the 1st Cavalry Division of the Wehrmacht was redeployed to the Governor General and remained there until the German attack on the Soviet Union. In June 1941, it was transferred to the 2nd Panzer Group as part of Army Group Center..

It was because of her mobility that she was included in the tank group, and this once again proves that the intelligence correctly tracked the presence of cavalry divisions in order to understand where the tank units and Wehrmacht tank groups would operate.
However, you are an ordinary amateur in intelligence, that’s why it will never reach you why the Wehrmacht’s cavalry divisions are tracked.
Well, the pattern of how cavalry divisions were transformed into armored divisions will completely break your pattern:

Before the invasion of the USSR, she was part of the 2nd tank group of G. Guderian, as part of the Army Group Center. The division quite successfully kept the pace of the offensive, together with the tank units. The problem was only in the supply of horses in the winter of 1941-1942. it was transformed into a tank division (24th TD). But in the middle of 1942 - one cavalry regiment was created in all three army groups - "North", "Center", "South". In 1944, these regiments were increased to 2 brigades - the 3rd and 4th. 3rd and 4th cavalry brigades,

https://topwar.ru/3454-kavaleriya-tretego-rejxa.html
That's why intelligence had a keen interest in the cavalry divisions of the Wehrmacht.

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

If we take into account the undeployed leader and reserve divisions, then by 1.4.38 there were only sixty-seven divisions in Germany, and the report (according to intelligence) refers to 106 divisions. Overstatement by 58%. If you do not take into account undeployed divisions, then it’s a shame to even consider the magnitude of the error ...

Considering that all your fantasies are based on an article by an unknown author from LJ, then we can congratulate you once again - you are in a puddle, and now, when you finally showed where your "knowledge" came from, any competent person will immediately understand that all your articles not a penny on a market day.

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

as usual puts any facts just to litter topics. As usual without any comment.

You’re lying as always - I presented you with scans from books, and even B.M.Shaposhnikov’s handwritten text, where he refutes your nonsense about tank groups, in general, anyone can study and draw conclusions that intelligence had to get for the top military leadership.

Quote: AsmyppoL

In the article, we deal mainly with verified information and a large number of facts.

Lies - still not a single link to the source of information the car did not cite.

Quote: AsmyppoL

A good picture is described in the article “German Army in September 1938 - Log Book - LiveJournal” (https://fat-yankey.livejournal.com/79171.html)

The material is provided specifically for regular readers. The author double-checked the material from the indicated article and supplemented it in order to show that he saw the primary sources.

I looked at this text by an unknown author in LiveJournalwho only operates ONE article of another little-known author

cited in Peter Greener's article Czechoslovakia'38. What if they fought? in the collection Hitler's Army. The Evolution and Structure of German Forces:

, and wants everyone to believe in this whim.
By the way, comments about the author's "thoughts" are interesting:

Something you in the heat of accusation of some kind of flea catching. What could plus or minus 2 divisions, or even plus or minus 5 divisions, decide there?

If AsmyppoL thinks that I will believe any unknown author more, having the MANUAL TEXT on the report of B.M. Shaposhnikov, he is deeply mistaken - these people are incommensurable, if only because B.M.Shaposhnikov is the greatest military mind of the twentieth century, on a global scale, and an unknown author can be an ordinary amateur in military matters.

[ccsr]

Author:
Eugene

Fifteen days after the appointment of Blaskowitz as commander of the 15th Army, he will be removed from his post and sent to the reserve of the High Command.

So, the commander was in office for only fifteen days - we’ll note this so that it becomes clear whether our intelligence could quickly open this appointment and removal.
But this is not the point, but the fact that the author in previous articles lied that the intelligence of the headquarters of the KOV headquarters 257th f. To my question how this is proved, the author once again lied, presenting the name of the division commander when she was in France, and not in Poland.
Therefore, given that the army commander could only be 15 days in office, we will ask the author again - on what basis does he argue that the name of the commander 257 pd was not the one indicated in the KOVO intelligence report, which could also be quickly appointed and removed .
I think that he will again dodge the answer - that was the case in the previous discussion.

[1970mk]

Everything of course is just wonderful .....
However, what did the Leaders say? What did the press write?
A very modest example:
October 19, 1939, Ogonyok magazine
"While in western Europe the war continues, started by the imperialists against the will and interests of the peoples, lasting peace has been restored in Eastern Europe. The atmosphere of anxiety, hostility and mutual mistrust, which has been artificially created over the years by warmongers who are accustomed to raking A constant hotbed of imperialist intrigues, an instrument of inciting one state against another was, by the way, the gentry Poland, which lived by plundering foreign lands. "
On November 1, 1939, the Pravda newspaper publishes V.M. Molotov at a meeting of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR:
"Recently, the ruling circles of England and France have been trying to portray themselves as fighters for the democratic rights of peoples against Hitlerism, and the British government has declared that for it the goal of the war against Germany is nothing less than" the destruction of Hitlerism "...
But this kind of war has no justification for itself. The ideology of Hitlerism, like any other ideological system, can be recognized or denied - this is a matter of political views. But any person will understand that ideology cannot be destroyed by force, you cannot end a war with it. Therefore, it is not only senseless, but also criminal to wage such a war as the war for the "destruction of Hitlerism", covered with a false flag of the struggle for "democracy" ... "

[ccsr]

Quote: 1970mk

However, what did the Leaders say? What did the press write?

They could say anything to the public and the media, but they built their actions on the basis of what is reflected in the report of B.M. Shaposhnikov, where our potential opponents are specifically listed. That is why in Soviet times there were severe restrictions on archival documents, so that various illiterate researchers did not speculate on what was state and party secret, and what was allowed only after a certain period of time.

[1970mk]

All this is FABRICATION! Anyhow ... they thought ... there is an official position! Read the 39-year-old press .... with what they say now THIS well, no matter how it fits! The same newspaper True for all years in free to read ...

[ccsr]

Quote: 1970mk

Read the press of 39 years ....

Actually, I know what they write in the press and what they write in serrated official documents - however, this hardly matters to you, judging by the fact that you firmly believe in newspaper articles.
There is such a clown Zakoretsky, so he constantly puts out magazines of the 30s, such as "Rabotnitsa" or "Pionerskaya Pravda", on the basis of which he concludes that the USSR was preparing to attack Germany first in 1941. With the word "Feast of St. Jorgen" continues ...

[1970mk]

Who is the clown? Discover the truth for 39 years .... and grass tales of the peace-loving USSR ...

[ccsr]

Quote: 1970mk

Who is the clown? Discover the truth for 39 years .... and grass tales of the peace-loving USSR ...

Why study Pravda of 1939, if it is easier to read declassified reports on how they met our army in 1939-1940? the population of the annexed western regions of Ukraine and Belarus, as well as peoples in the Baltic republics.
I called Zakoretsky a clown, but you may not know such a "writer".

[Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko]

Interestingly, not dry and visible dynamics in "deceiving" us. Thanks ! We look forward to continuing!

[ccsr]

Author:
Eugene

It was shown that in the intelligence materials (RM), German formations were indicated, most of which could not be in the indicated places.

This lies once again proves that the author does not understand at all that one or two months before the start of the war there were constant movements of German troops, and therefore, in the intelligence reports sometimes the locations of certain units and formations might not coincide, because not all such movements were known at the time of compilation.

Such "exact" RMs could only be provided by the German command, using fake signs on the shoulder straps of the military.

This is complete nonsense, because confusion with the signs occurs more often due to more banal reasons associated with the reassignment of parts, or due to the fact that new distinctive signs have not yet received parts from the reserve. The simplest example from Soviet experience - the headquarters of the tank and the headquarters of the combined arms army (division) is usually distinguished by black and red buttonholes, and on the red tabs of the officers of the headquarters of the combined arms army you can see emblems of automobile, engineering, artillery, tank, etc. troops. This will lead into a stupor anyone who knows which troops are responsible for the color of the buttonholes. Another example is in the reconnaissance battalion, etc., all but the company RDR wear black buttonholes, and in the reconnaissance battalion, all but the same company wear red buttonholes. And if the IDF is disbanded, then when transferring its reconnaissance battalion to the TD, it will take a lot of time to transfer everyone to new insignia. But the author does not know these things, that is why the usual confusion with the part numbers is almost as a strategic misinformation of German intelligence. Although military professionals know that no matter how the form of the troops is changed, it is worth going to the division’s radio center to the army’s radio network for verification purposes, the radio intelligence will instantly reveal who actually owns the radio center, and the whole masquerade down the drain. That is why compliance with the radio silence regime is the most important sign of preparation for an attack, and not that someone changed the insignia at the wrong time.

In August 1939, during the preparation of the invasion of Poland, the headquarters of the 1st district and the army were again divided.

This just confirms my assertion that it was precisely the reorganization of the headquarters structures that led to some confusion in the insignia of the parts included in the compound (union).

In 1939-1942, the German divisions that went to the front left one battalion in the place of constant deployment, which served as a reserve: he trained new recruits and sent them to his division to the front.

Finally, the author understood why I explained to him more than once that parts of the connection can be in different places after moving, both in a directive order and for situational reasons.

Therefore, in places of permanent deployment of divisions, large groups of military personnel could be located with the designation of regiment numbers that were on different fronts. It is possible that our intelligence sources mistook these units for full-fledged regiments.

It seems that the author has seen the light why in intelligence reports they could not always accurately indicate the number of a regiment or division. Maybe now it will become clear to him that it is more important to know how many full-fledged divisions are opposed to us, and not their number at the current time of drawing up intelligence. However, I strongly doubt that the author has an idea of ​​military science ...

In May 1940 of the year, on the basis of the corps headquarters of the Commander-in-Chief of the East, the headquarters of the 9 Field Army was formed, which was decreasing to the West on May 14. The new headquarters of the Commander-in-Chief of the East will be formed on the basis of the headquarters of the command of the South border section. It was not possible to establish who exactly will become the new Commander-in-Chief, but the rank of this post has again dropped ...

This proves once again that the author is juggling, since in May 1940, France had not yet been defeated, and at that time Hitler did not even dream of any preparation for war with the USSR, because the "Barbarossa" directive was issued much later. But the very fact that an army headquarters is being formed on the basis of the corps corps proves once again that the main thing is the total number of formations and units, their staffing, and not which headquarters they will be subordinated to.
So, because of various illiterate populists of military history, myths are born about the pre-war state of military intelligence, which, not understanding the basics of military affairs, is taken to give estimates to those military professionals who, in the pre-war era, by the great effort, obtained valuable information about the enemy, which was then almost 95 % confirmed that an outstanding achievement in itself. It remains to regret those who believe this amateur who decided to show his wisdom by listing the different numbers of divisions and units, but at the same time lies godlessly when the question is about evaluating all the activities of intelligence agencies.

[A1Lukno]

Do you think that intelligence data is true if they mistake a training company for a full-fledged infantry regiment or even an infantry division?

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Do you think that intelligence data is true if they mistake a training company for a full-fledged infantry regiment or even an infantry division?

Where did you find documented evidence of your fantasies?

[A1Lukno]

I comment on your words that the intelligence officer could have been mistaken in the name of the commander of the 257th infantry division.
When you commented on at least double checking a printed document, you offended the questioner. Then they gave an illiterate answer that he did not know how typists work.
Based on this, I continued your version of intelligence training. If mistakes in the bulletin are a common thing, they can, with a clear conscience, make a mistake in the part designation: instead of 161 pp, print 161 pp, and instead, for example, 209 infantry. divisions print 109 infantry. division.
Boy to, go to school and don't get into adult conversation!

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

I comment on your words that the intelligence officer could have been mistaken in the name of the commander of the 257th infantry division.

It could easily be mistaken if she printed different parts of the text from several workbooks or sheets. This happens. But you, because of your ignorance, cannot believe this.

Quote: A1Lukno

If mistakes in the bulletin are a common thing, they can, with a clear conscience, make a mistake in the part designation: instead of 161 pp, print 161 pp, and instead, for example, 209 infantry. divisions print 109 infantry. division.
Boy to, go to school and don't get into adult conversation!

Go amateur yourself - when publishing the book to which I refer, the editor may have made a mistake while typing the text of the publication. That's why I asked the author of the article to provide a source of information, where it was documented that another commander was the commander of 257 pd. But he still has not imagined it, which means he simply lied. However, you too cannot say anything about this, so keep quiet in a rag.

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: ccsr

Go amateur yourself - when publishing the book to which I refer, the editor may have made a mistake while typing the text of the publication. That's why I asked the author of the article to provide a source of information, where it was documented that another commander was the commander of 257 pd. But he still has not imagined it, which means he simply lied. However, you too cannot say anything about this, so keep quiet in a rag.

Here is a crook ?! He turns out to be about a book, not intelligence! A komentov wrote otherwise, liar!
And to check on Yakovlev’s base was a break ?! Or until they pinned him to the wall - and I got along I saw everything, he didn’t come up with anything else but to think up a rotten excuse about a printing house ... Yes, only read lies in their books. How they dodge when they try! And when they don’t try in books, you can write any nonsense ...

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

Here is a crook ?! He turns out to be about a book, not intelligence! A komentov wrote otherwise, liar!

So who was the commander of 257 pd, a swindler? When we hear the name and link to the source, or will you wriggle again? By the way, you still have not proved that there is a mistake in the bulletin or in the book - so you are a crook.

[AsmyppoL]

Yes, I’m not even able to follow the link that I threw away .... It seems to find information on 257 on the Wiki - it's higher mathematics for a supposedly professional military ... I wrote in detail ...
It seems that the song about the baobab is in place ... This is a summary of which Mr. Milchakov thoughtfully is silent.

On the side are my misinformation intelligence notes ...

And below is information on the 257-th front.

And below is the data from Wiki about the commander of the 257 th front from March 1941 of the year until the start of the war!

It turns out that even the only division commander that Milchakov could find in reconnaissance reports from hundreds of German divisions and he turned out to be a fake commander .... One complete disinformation in intelligence. Sadness ...

It was hard to search. The mind wasn’t enough, that means .... Well, why the first-grader should bother with me and wipe the snot ?? !!! Go to school and learn better !! )))

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

It seems to find information on the 257th PD in Wiki - this is higher mathematics for an allegedly professional military ...

A wiki is not a document at all, so provide a link to a reliable source so that you are not considered a swindler. By the way, the intelligence report directly states that the number "2 arm corps" requires verification, and you brazenly lied that it was disinformation. For you, there may be misinformation, but for military professionals this is a common situation when clarification of the information received is required.

Quote: AsmyppoL

On the side are my misinformation intelligence notes ...

You are in general no one in military intelligence matters, so you will be pushing your "notes" to amateurs like Victoria.

Quote: AsmyppoL

It turns out that even the only division commander that Milchakov could find in reconnaissance reports from hundreds of German divisions and he turned out to be a fake commander .... One complete disinformation in intelligence. Sadness ...

It is sad that various amateurs lie godlessly, and when they are asked to submit a DOCUMENT, they slip some Wikipedia article that is not clear by whom and why.
So where is the link to a real historical document, where it would be written that the division’s commander was another general, so that it wouldn’t work out the way it was with the commander who was in office for fifteen days and was removed.

Quote: AsmyppoL

Well, why the first-grader with you to bother me and wipe the snot ?? !!! Go to school and learn better !! )))

You can’t mess with me, but imagine a document all the same, otherwise you will remain a petty swindler lying godlessly and hiding under a nickname, afraid that knowledgeable people will start laughing at him.

[A1Lukno]

I also comment on your words that intelligence can safely take a group of tenants for the arrival of a full regiment or division. And if two scouts see this group, then this is verified information.
The result was repeatedly overstatement of the explored.
Stalin was right when he said that this was not information, but disinformation

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

I also comment on your words that intelligence can safely take a group of tenants for the arrival of a full regiment or division.

Do you think that just like that, out of nothing to do, the division commander, without receiving an order from above, will send an operational group of his staff officers, including quartermasters, to an unknown destination? Dream, you are our "expert" ...

Quote: A1Lukno

And if two scouts see this group, then this is verified information.

Lies, if only because on the eve of the war, the actions of agents in the field of deployment of troops were extremely difficult. That is why they checked information either through radio intelligence, or receiving information from strategic agents who worked in completely different places, and they did not need to visually monitor the appearance of troops, because they received information from documents or in another way.

Quote: A1Lukno

The result was repeatedly overstatement of the explored.

Lies - there was no repeated overstatement of data; this is the fruit of your illiterate assessment of intelligence materials. If there were any errors, they did not exceed permissible, so that it was impossible to draw a correct conclusion from them.

Quote: A1Lukno

Stalin was right when he said that this was not information, but disinformation

Well, if Stalin did not believe intelligence, then why was the Directive No 21 June issued, which indicates the exact date of the German attack? Have you ever logically comprehended this in your head?

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

I comment on your words,

So comment on my words, where I ask you to provide documentary evidence to your lies:

Do you think that intelligence data is true if they mistake a training company for a full-fledged infantry regiment or even an infantry division?

[A1Lukno]

Once in the corner of your lies in the comments you need to get away from the topic. A typical reception of div experts ..
Ok i'm pon

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Once in the corner of your lies in the comments you need to get away from the topic. A typical reception of div experts ..

So where is the information about the fact that the training company was mistaken for a full-fledged infantry regiment - lie something so as not to leave the topic.

[cavl]

Of course, Milchakov is cunning when he says that the corps and the army are not important. And the number of divisions is important.
In other words, he deliberately lies.
We all saw on the maps of the three districts presented in the first parts of the designation of the headquarters of army corps and field infantry armies, but on the maps there is not a single headquarters of the mechanized mechkorpus or tank group. And without them, it is impossible to conduct operations of the initial periol of lightning war!
Our intelligence missed, and as Evgeny correctly shows, the German command outplayed the Soviet

[ccsr]

Quote: cavl

Of course, Milchakov is cunning when he says that the corps and the army are not important. And the number of divisions is important.
In other words, he deliberately lies.

You apparently didn’t read the declassified document of B.M. Shaposhnikov - does he, too, in your opinion? Or maybe you are just an amateur in these matters?

Quote: cavl

We all saw on the maps of the three districts presented in the first parts of the designation of the headquarters of army corps and field infantry armies, but on the maps there is not a single headquarters of the mechanized mechkorpus or tank group. And without them, it is impossible to conduct operations of the initial periol of lightning war!

Complete nonsense - any headquarters, including the headquarters of the district (front) within two hours or less after the announcement of the alarm, leaves the PPD (or field positions) and after an hour or two the devil knows where from where it was located earlier. And what will operational determination of the headquarters of the group give you if tank or infantry divisions remain in place? Like all amateurs, you don’t understand that it is the combat units, and not the deployment of command and control bodies, that determine the future actions of the enemy, which is why in the report of B.M. Shaposhnikov the calculation is based on the number of divisions, not headquarters.
However, the illiterate in military affairs will never understand this, which is why they lie godlessly in their articles and comments.

Quote: cavl

Our intelligence missed, and as Evgeny correctly shows, the German command outplayed the Soviet

Another lie of the amateur - after the Great Patriotic War, an analysis of intelligence materials of various structures of the USSR was carried out, and as well-known military leaders write in their memoirs, the total error in assessing all enemy forces was about 3-4 divisions, which is less than 5% of the total.
So you're lying like a gray gelding, along with Eugene, and this is obvious.

[A1Lukno]

And the great falsifiers of our history are pierced.
They do not need to check anything, all books are based on rumors and speculation.
Well today, Eugene destroyed the fragile version of Milchakov and Kozinkin
Kozinkin again showed himself completely not thinking and not checking information.
Or is it just a scammer?
Don’t lie about intelligence analysis! You can only quote

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

You can only quote

They have more information for professionals than in all the chatter such as you and Eugene.

[A1Lukno]

God forbid from reading silly things in the comments of the unfortunate professionals Milchakov and Kozinkin.
In addition to the spiriosis on the crystal ball, Vasily can not come up with anything.
Professionals find facts, and clowns are gossip of women without facts

[VS]

Quote: cavl

Of course, Milchakov is cunning when he says that the corps and the army are not important. And the number of divisions is important.
In other words, he deliberately lies.
We all saw on the maps of the three districts presented in the first parts of the designation of the headquarters of army corps and field infantry armies, but on the maps there is not a single headquarters of the mechanized mechkorpus or tank group. And without them, it is impossible to conduct operations of the initial periol of lightning war!
Our intelligence missed, and as Evgeny correctly shows, the German command outplayed the Soviet

and what do you think intelligence has missed? The fact that the Germans can hit with tank groups? So it was known from the experience of Poland or France. Didn't you see these TGs by June 21st? So THIS is nonsense - it is important to know, first of all, the total number of divisions and this is EXACTLY known ..

So WHAT did our German command outperform?

I adore idiots that they read "documents" or summaries and then invent WHAT our command "THINKED" THERE !!! spiritualists suck)))

[A1Lukno]

If they knew that the Germans could beat in such groups, then where are they in the intelligence information and on the reporting cards on June 21?
You said in your answers last year that you need only the number of tanks, not the number of tank divisions, corps and armies!
What the heck can an analysis be if the most important components of the blitzkrieg are not discovered?
Boy, go to school or write your essay on the war!

[VS]

Quote: A1Lukno

well today Eugene destroyed the fragile version of Milchakov and Kozinkin

and WHAT?

[A1Lukno]

Built on a broadcast session. You were told obvious stupidity that the number of tanks is important, and the rest of the equipment of the tank division is not.
The same clown or scammer.
Vasily Kozinkin, and what important parts were in the tank group and in the motorized corps without which they could not fight?

[VS]

Quote: A1Lukno

If they knew that the Germans could beat in such groups, then where are they in the intelligence information and on the reporting cards on June 21?

?? And why should they be indicated there? YOU ARE YOU IMHO Batana - AS MUST be, do not give out as the norm - they say since YOU just didn’t want that ...)) And you will be happy ...))

[VS]

Quote: A1Lukno

What the heck can an analysis be if the most important components of a blitzkrieg are not discovered?

YOU are uncle - d..k ??))) Blitzkrieg is TACTICS and offensive strategy, METHOD of using troops ... And intelligence gives - DATA on the number and composition of troops .. And already there the enemy decides to use this number of troops - not interesting to intelligence))) And in this regard, intelligence has completely done its job - the TOTAL NUMBER of Germans' forces and the number of tanks and planes it gave, and how the General Staff used these data - it’s no longer intelligence)))
At the same time, intelligence gave the military all the more information on this tactics, and our military themselves completely studied and analyzed it - see kid snotty meeting of the military in December - that the Germans are gathering tank divisions into fists in Poland or France - in TG - the military KNEW and they do not care that intelligence will not report on the "headquarters" of these TGs - THIS IS A TACTICS - TEMPORARY "UNION")) The military already know that if the Germans use a bunch of so on and we see 1000 tanks against Brest on June 5, that means We are waiting for you and TG ... as a form of such an association)))
After all, for PTBr or PTO divisions in FIG, how are these etc. "called" in THEIR directions)))

But HOW the General Staff used intelligence data - read Golikov or Gretsov work))) Or - the lessons and conclusions are the same)))
At the same time, look at the KSHI in January - you’re my anonymous anonymous - THERE IS NO AP for the Germans AT ALL !!!)))) some battles))) clearly spread out in the front, in the infantry units))

Well, it's just a holiday for idiots)))) Look at KSHI and tell that NGOs and GSh didn’t know and didn’t expect it !!!)))
.......................
Remember the anonymous clown - the reason for the defeat, and the bazaar at the anonymous aftar of the next network hiding behind the clamor is clearly going to this - NOT IN THAT THE INTELLIGENCE did not give something to the military, but Stalin was "thinking" there !!)))
THE REASON OF DAMAGES was IN WHAT were the plans in the General Staff in case of war AFTER Shaposhnikov))) In that, in these plans the Germans were painted)))

[AsmyppoL]

Again we are writing a lie, Kozinkin? I leafed through Golikov’s memoirs: they contain information from intelligence materials. You only took a phrase from his words that the command knew everything ...
Time s. If we refer to nachrazvedupra, then intelligence data must be recognized as true! And which ones? At 1.6.41 German divisions were 120-122, and by the beginning of the war until 127. And where is the buildup of German infantry, motorized and tank divisions ?!
Then you wrote about intelligence analysis. Well, I will conduct them for amateurs.
How many German troops were there according to intelligence, which supposedly gave everything? And does this data nearly repeat the bulletin data from June 22?
29 divisions against PribOVO, 30 divisions against ZAPOVO, 35-36 divisions against KOVO in the Lublin-Krakow region, 9-10 divisions in Slovakia Carpathian Ukraine, Romania at the border - 17 divisions. Total to the 121 division (we will not look at the Poznan-Tor group).

And how many of them were actually in the areas of responsibility of the districts?
PRIO - 40 !, STOCK - 39!
Lublin-Krakow district coincided. Slovakia and Right-Bank Ukraine zero instead of 14-15 divisions on 22 June! Complete misinformation.
Romania 7 divisions and the eighth 22 of June only arrives, instead of SEVENTEEN! And this is intelligence data that actually matches what it was!
So can either a fraudster or a complete layman in this period! Show any analysis of pre-war events that would explain this discrepancy
And I will laugh at this stupidity ... Specifically with the facts!
Therefore, there is no need to cheat here, but bring the facts, Mr. writer-inventor Kozinkin

[VS]

Quote: AsmyppoL

Time s. If we refer to nachrazvedupra, then intelligence data must be recognized as true! And which ones? At 1.6.41 German divisions were 120-122, and by the beginning of the war up to 127. And where is the buildup of German infantry, motorized and tank divisions ?!

on 1 of June Golikov also shows - WE KNOW about 120 with more than one. It's true? TRUTH. He shows - on 21 we know about the same 122 German divisions. It's true? TRUTH))
Did Golikov deceive the General Staff? NO)))
What's the catch??
SO YOU OLUHAM have already been shown anonymous - on June 1, this number of troops was shown and it was up to 500 km from the borders, including that. all the troops in our direction saw the reconnaissance, and by June 22, these same divisions had already seen that they had been withdrawn directly to the border - in a band LESS than 500 km)),

Quote: AsmyppoL

29 divisions against PribOVO, 30 divisions against ZAPOVO, 35-36 divisions against KOVO in the Lublin-Krakow region, 9-10 divisions in Slovakia Carpathian Ukraine, Romania at the border - 17 divisions. Total to the 121 division (we will not look at the Poznan-Tor group).

And how many of them were actually in the areas of responsibility of the districts?
PRIO - 40 !, STOCK - 39!

And Cho, responding to Pokrovsky, the PURKAYEVS claimed with the Sandalovs that by June 21 they KNEW the EXACT NUMBER of German forces ??))) on KOVO under 40 and on ZAPOVO under 47 German divisions)))

You have already been told and you yourself recognized - you are our anonym - that you are analyzing the MIZER from the data but you have global conclusions)) But - you cannot draw the right conclusions on incorrect data)))

Quote: AsmyppoL

And this is intelligence data that actually matches what it was!
So can either a fraudster or a complete layman in this period! Show any analysis of pre-war events that would explain this discrepancy
And I will laugh at this stupidity ... Specifically with the facts!

They have already explained to you - the reasons for the defeats should not be looked for in the intelligence data but in the PLANS of the General Staff)) read the lessons and conclusions at least - there it is shown LONG))) Unlike you clowns, officers of the VNU GSh did not hide their names) )))

Quote: AsmyppoL

bring facts mister literary writer Kozinkin

WHAT?)) What are you anonymous booby? Why are you going to contact me with your SURNAME if you write your own open ??)))

As for the one who there they did not expect from the Germans - about TG - did you read Vasilevsky ??))

“The General Staff as a whole and our Operations Directorate made adjustments to the operational plan for the concentration and deployment of the Armed Forces developed during the autumn and winter of 1940 to repel an enemy attack from the West. The plan stipulated that military operations would begin by repelling the attacks of the attacking enemy, that these attacks would immediately be played out in the form of large air battles, from the enemy’s attempts to neutralize our airfields, weaken the military, and especially tank, groupings, to undermine the rear military installations, and to damage railway stations and frontline large cities.
<...>
Simultaneously an attack on our borders of ground troops with large tank groups was expected". )))

[ccsr]

Quote: V.S.

And then, answering Pokrovsky, the PURKAYEVS claimed with the Sandalovs that by June 21 they KNEW the EXACT NUMBER of German forces ??)))

They ignore these materials, because it completely breaks down their version that intelligence has not reported anything there. As I understand it, this AsmyppoL, a fan of the illiterate Madame, to whom he devotes his texts, is just an ignoramus in understanding the tasks of military intelligence, and still believes that the front commander must know what number this or that German division has, and it is imperative who its commander is . Although, by and large, this should be known to the chief of intelligence of the front, and he always has such information, and when they demand it, he will immediately give it out with all the necessary background material on it. So only amateur amateurs in military affairs, whom he recruited as his henchmen, can take seriously his illiterate scribbles.

Quote: V.S.

At the same time, an attack on our borders by ground troops with large tank groups was expected. ”

They also won’t believe this - it turns out that the top military commander knew perfectly well about the Wehrmacht tank groups, and does not hide it.
In general, clowns continue to amuse the audience ...

[AsmyppoL]

No need to cheat - just show where in the intelligence reports indicate the location of large tank groups !! motorized corps and tank groups. And straining the gyrus, explain: why in the General Staff’s operational report until the evening of 22 on June there are no large tank groups against Brest, in the Baltic States and against KOVO?
My answer is simple - they were not until the morning of June 22 - not found. try to strain your forehead and refute the facts, not verbal garbage!

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

No need to cheat - just show where in the intelligence reports indicate the location of large tank groups !!

Don’t distort the rogue - you earlier squealed that the headquarters of the tank groups were not indicated, but now you started to wriggle, and you start talking about the locations of the tank groups. But here he managed to show himself as an amateur, because in the General Staff of the General Staff there was data on the PLACEMENT of German groupings of troops:

[AsmyppoL]

Milchakov, well, why did you bring this? What does this prove? Well, kindergarten
This diagram is based on 15.6.41 West Intelligence data !!
Where is at least one headquarters of the tank group? Motorized hull?
Why is this all ?? These data are printed on the map of the headquarters of ZapOVO - we examined it, but you only wrote comments or what ???
The same card is at the headquarters of KOVO !! Only they show the situation on June 21 and repeat it to a greater extent from June 1, and this indicates that the troops did not go to the border !!!
Find the actual German divisions in Slovakia and Carpathian Ukraine? You have misinformation on the chart! Confirm their availability!
Why are the headquarters of the 3 and 8 armies in the data ?? They were disbanded in the fall of 1939 of the year!

The tables of this report are much more accurate, as they show the settlements where the troops are located!
Have you not seen the name of the group above each plate ??? Well, woe experts from the couch
How amateurs got it !! All!! Go argue to school boy !! All the arguments and facts are just for that age.
Then I’m only minus one! Children's Day is not soon, so you can offend the child

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

This diagram is based on 15.6.41 West Intelligence data !!
Where is at least one headquarters of the tank group? Motorized hull?

Once again, for the illiterate, I explain that the chief of the General Staff, as a strategist, does not need such details from the word at all. That is why such details are not indicated for him in intelligence materials, because they are of little use for understanding the future hostilities of the enemy in the event of a war.
Moreover, our verbiage does not understand that there are strict requirements for the compilation of intelligence materials that do not fit with your amateurish wishes, that is why he can shove his "requirements" into a certain place.
About the fact that the deployment of the headquarters of a group or corps is much less significant than the deployment of combat units of these groups or corps, our amateur will not understand until the end of his life - I sympathize, but I can not help. By the way, you lied again, because the data is on 1.06 and not on 15.06/XNUMX - this is all your essence of a liar.

Quote: AsmyppoL

You have misinformation on the chart!

Stop lying - you still haven’t been able to cite any evidence, just a link to some LJ by an unknown author.

Quote: AsmyppoL

Then I’m only minus one!

What a "formidable" you are - just do not come out with saliva, otherwise you will choke ...

[cavl]

Yes, it’s like an expert sofa. He also visited the post of chief of the General Staff. He knows that such a person does not need information on tank armies and enemy corps. He has a crystal ball of omniscience. He can appeal to the spirits of his ancestors, but they all know

[cavl]

No data is needed on the tank division. Yes, and intelligence says that there are only one at a time.
All fascist power in 5-7 separate tank regiments.
What a miracle

[ccsr]

Quote: cavl

He knows that such a person does not need information on tank armies and enemy corps.

Take it easy, verbiage, and better read the historical document prepared by B.M. Shaposhnikov, a scan of the manuscript version is available on the MO website. If you consider yourself smarter than this strategist, then just say that he was mistaken without indicating the location of the tank groups in it, and I believe this document more than the lies of various amateurs in military affairs. By the way, at the time of drawing up the document, there were no tank armies in the Wehrmacht at all - they first appeared after the outbreak of the war, so you sat in a puddle again.

Quote: cavl

No data is needed on the tank division. Yes, and intelligence says that there are only one at a time.
All fascist power in 5-7 separate tank regiments.
What a miracle

Once again, for the illiterate, I inform you that in intelligence materials it is impossible to physically place everything that was available in the intelligence department, that's why they report there what the commander and chief of staff of the district demand.
And do not lie about 5-7 tank regiments - in intelligence number 5 already on 1.06.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX indicated
not only individual tank regiments and battalions, but also the deployment of five Wehrmacht tank divisions - open your eyes, amateur, so as not to make yourself a laughing stock.

[VS]

Quote: AsmyppoL

No need to cheat - just show where in the intelligence reports indicate the location of large tank groups !! motorized corps and tank groups. And straining the gyrus, explain: why in the General Staff’s operational report until the evening of 22 on June there are no large tank groups against Brest, in the Baltic States and against KOVO?
My answer is simple - they were not until the morning of June 22 - not found. try to strain your forehead and refute the facts, not verbal garbage!

1st - and WHY they are needed if their existence was known - that the Germans MAY create them for a while)) Well, they can and can. The main thing is how many tanks and how many tank units are reconnaissance and the rest is lyrics))?
2nd — and did you see the LATEST FINAL REPORT of the General Staff - which Golikov writes about and which was attributed to Stalin at 20.00?)))

[AsmyppoL]

Oh how everything is running!
after ten righteous labors expressed in verbal rubbish in ten little books, does Kozinkin not know that the demarcation line between the intelligence staff of ZapOVO included Suwalki and further capturing part of East Prussia? How can you sprinkle books? I don’t know an elementary thing? Have you ever read the bulletins or only practice quotes?
Here is a student overgrown! In Sandalov’s quotes from 40 divisions due to their withdrawal from territories against the troops of PribOVO !!
Read summaries of syllables - there are lines of demarcation. This is what a moron you need to be in order to read the nonsense of a warehouse worker who does not have the simplest facts from intelligence materials ?? !!!!

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

Read summaries of syllables - there are lines of demarcation.

You see the verbiage, in the intelligence it is arranged that data on some object can come not only from the neighboring district (or the fleet, which is located on the territory of the district), but also from information messages of the Main Intelligence Directorate created on the information received by strategic intelligence. So you sat in a puddle again - you don’t even have any idea how all this is organized in intelligence, for which the demarcation lines have no serious meaning.

Quote: AsmyppoL

which does not possess the simplest facts from intelligence materials ?? !!!!

You are just a miserable clown who undertook to discuss intelligence materials, having no idea about this structure of the armed forces. And when you were transported by a face, you began to wriggle like a thimble, grabbed by the hand.

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

And where is the buildup of German infantry, motorized and tank divisions ?!

For example, in the intelligence report of the chief of the Brest operational point from 28 on May 1941:

It notes how the tank corps and tank divisions arrive, and even the cavalry division on 24 in May.
And this is a report from the lowest level of intelligence — what can you discuss at all if you haven’t even seen such a document in your eyes?

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: AsmyppoL

And where is the buildup of German infantry, motorized and tank divisions ?!

For example, in the intelligence report of the chief of the Brest operational point from 28 on May 1941:

It notes how the tank corps and tank divisions arrive, and even the cavalry division on 24 in May.
And this is a report from the lowest level of intelligence — what can you discuss at all if you haven’t even seen such a document in your eyes?

As usual, not a day, so as not to deceive. A man like that, Milchakov.
How did you serve in the army with such a huge neck? Or did not serve, but vegetated?
Not once have I personally told you that everything reaches you like a Giraffe - in three weeks.
The first time it was when discussing the topic of air defense. Anyone can be convinced of this by reading the notes to part 19 of the series "An Unexpected War ..."
For three weeks Milchakov cites all kinds of nonsense in the arguments and, as a result, brought as an argument the Combat Journal of the 1 Air Defense Corps. The funny thing is that this text was in an article he condemned. It came to a giraffe in three weeks ...

The second time the same thing happened when discussing the name of the cryptographic staff service (SHS) in the topic of creating the southern front (parts 3 and 4). For more than three weeks, he argued with foam at the mouth that there was no such service name and never did. and after three weeks he made a feint with his ears and began to say differently that there was such a service, but he had a completely different one, and all were mediocre ...

Now the same thing again. He lies and does not bounce. As early as in August, a part was published which contained a reconnaissance message, which finally after 20 days (did not last one day to three weeks) was discovered by Mr. Milchakov. It came to however ...

The problem is that by placing the message, he deliberately distorts the fact that there is a link in the message "it is required to establish the location of the corpus."
Only the corps did not get into the intelligence report and no one specified its position. This is clearly visible on the map of the headquarters of ZAPOVO, where there is no tank corps on June 21 either.
DATA WAS NOT CONFIRMED SO THERE WASN'T CONFIRMATION OF THIS INFORMATION and therefore it was NOT GUIDED!
Here is a liar

[AsmyppoL]

It is impossible to believe all grassroots intelligence reports without verification. For example, the same message with obvious misinformation (from the same part)

It is written below in a message that there are one such division in each of the 4 armies. And this is desa.
When will you go to school and not litter our brains with your stupidities ???

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

It is impossible to believe all grassroots intelligence reports without verification.

Where is the evidence of a swindler that this intelligence report was not checked in the district’s RO, at least according to radio intelligence or other intelligence sources?

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

As usual, not a day, so as not to deceive.

The bulletin "deceived" you again, or couldn’t tell you anything more intelligent?

Quote: AsmyppoL

The second time the same thing happened when discussing the name of the cryptographic staff service (SHS) in the topic of creating the southern front (parts 3 and 4). For more than three weeks, he argued with foam at the mouth that there was no such service name and never did. and after three weeks he made a feint with his ears and began to say differently that there was such a service, but he had a completely different one, and all were mediocre ...

Once again, you are lying out of habit - there was no cryptographic staff management in the General Staff, and I clearly demonstrated this to you on the structure of the pre-war General Staff.
Yes, and cryptographers in the Red Army were not only in the headquarters - you simply are not in the subject.

Quote: AsmyppoL

Back in August, a part was published that contained a reconnaissance message, which finally after 20 days (did not last one day to three weeks) was discovered by Mr. Milchakov.

You are definitely inadequate - I have a 2012 edition book, which I purchased at the time of its release, and it has all of this. Here is a scan of the cover, you can check the pages:

And you here tell me about your "discoveries" made recently, not realizing that you look funny. By the way, since you knew about this report, why did you lie that there was no information about the increase in German tank units on the eve of the war?

Quote: AsmyppoL

Only the corps did not get into the intelligence report and no one specified its position.

Yes, this is a report of only one operational point, and there were several of them in the district. Yes, and radio reconnaissance was carried out constantly, so that in the district headquarters RO there could be more detailed information on this corps.

Quote: AsmyppoL

Here is a liar

Here is a rogue - he forgets what he wrote before, then he lies that no one specified the intelligence, without giving a single fact.

[A1Lukno]

Yes, I read the comments about the bus. And as argued that this can not be

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Yes, I read the comments about the bus. And as argued that this can not be

For the illiterate I inform you - the term "shshs" is an outdated name for the headquarters service, which was abolished due to the introduction of a new organizational structure of the General Staff, in which there was no "cipher-staff service management". That is why if somewhere this outdated name has survived, it does not mean that there was such a structure in the General Staff and the headquarters of the lower level. I'm not even talking about the fact that some encryptors had nothing to do with the headquarters at all - but you will never understand this.

Quote: A1Lukno

Milchakov, where is the confirmation of the arrival of the tank corps?

Especially for the illiterate, I inform you once again that B.M.Shaposhnikov or F.Galder, as strategists, didn’t care where the headquarters of the associations were, because they evaluate the enemy by the number of divisions arrived, which is why intelligence was primarily concerned with identifying their number and type , which was reflected in intelligence reports.

Quote: A1Lukno

And why is this building not on the ZAPOVO map on June 21, 1941?

Whose card - first give the link so that you can see whether you are lying or not. I have long understood that you and AsmyppoL are ordinary crooks who tell with a clever face that they allegedly have documents, but when it comes to the issue of presenting them, they slip a wikipedia article from an unknown author.

[A1Lukno]

For a liar, I note that the term shhs existed before the war and until the summer of 1945 inclusive, and I considered this period in stories about the creation of the southern front.
And post-war knowledge in this context is important to the amateur Milchakov for littering the topic.
Since nothing more clever for debunking the author comes to the head. So you have to dodge and lie

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

For a liar, I note that the term shhs existed before the war and until the summer of 1945 inclusive, and I considered this period in stories about the creation of the southern front.

Lies, because in the pre-war documents on the organizational structure of the People's Commissariat of Defense, such a term is not mentioned. There is no order or directive of the NGO, which would indicate that this is the legal name of the service. If he was in circulation, it was among a certain category of servicemen, and even then in the old fashioned way, like the term "Red Army" in documents and forms after 1940.

[A1Lukno]

Milchakov, where is the confirmation of the arrival of the tank corps? And why is this building not on the ZAPOVO map on June 21, 1941?

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: V.S.

on 1 of June Golikov also shows - WE KNOW about 120 with more than one. It's true? TRUTH. He shows - on 21 we know about the same 122 German divisions. It's true? TRUTH))
Did Golikov deceive the General Staff? NO)))

How primitive it is! We leave for specifics using all sorts of excuses!
In the intelligence report of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army dated May 31 on 1941, signed by Golikov, the number of German divisions is indicated: against Pribovo - 29, against ZAPOVO - 30, against KOVO 35-36, Slovakia and Carpathian Ukraine - 9-10 divisions!
Can you refute? There is a signature of Golikov. This is a document, not a memory.

I understand there will be no buzzwords, and facts all the more ....

The June 22 intelligence report of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army states that against the PribOVO troops there are 29 divisions (no increase), against ZAPOVO the 31 division an increase by one division (armored inspection of the SS shock detachments, which was learned from rumors). KOVO - data confirmed - the same 35-36 divisions.
Slovakia and Carpathian Ukraine - 14-15 divisions! Actually zero!
Romania - 17! divisions! In fact, no more than 8-mi!
Under the summary, Golikov’s signature ... Can you refute? This is again a document, not rumors and distortions in memoirs or in your little books. The facts however!

Total up to 32's divisions from Romania, Slovakia, Carpathian Ukraine were in other places ... Refute the can?

On the map of the ZAPOVO headquarters posted on the official website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the situation with the German troops is indicated as of June 21 of 1941 of the year ... Can you refute the can? Only facts please!
The map shows all the headquarters and troops of the German troops known before the attack! show her at least one headquarters of a motorized corps or tank group! Although the headquarters of the army corps and field armies are indicated. Try to show all 40 divisions to which you refer based on Sandalov’s memoirs. And do not need fraudulent excuses like ask Sandalov.

You put these nonsense in your books and therefore must be responsible for your words! You may not answer: many already know that you are a liar ...

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: V.S.

You have already been told and you yourself recognized - you are our anonym - that you are analyzing the MIZER from the data but you have global conclusions)) But - you cannot draw the right conclusions on incorrect data)))

Vasily Kozinkin, why lie again ?? These are your words about the minuscule, and I said that in any part about intelligence there is more of my facts than in your analysis from books! And he asked to cite your conclusions so that I could prelude to show users your non-reasoned lie. Let people see how the eleventh book is written by Vasily Kozinkin, who is hiding under the name "Vasya"

[VS]

Quote: AsmyppoL

Quote: V.S.

You have already been told and you yourself recognized - you are our anonym - that you are analyzing the MIZER from the data but you have global conclusions)) But - you cannot draw the right conclusions on incorrect data)))

Vasily Kozinkin, why lie again ?? These are your words about the minuscule, and I said that in any part about intelligence there is more of my facts than in your analysis from books! And he asked to cite your conclusions so that I could prelude to show users your non-reasoned lie. Let people see how the eleventh book is written by Vasily Kozinkin, who is hiding under the name "Vasya"

-1-th - I’m the same Vasily as you Vasisuali))) you want to contact me by name and surname; you are our anonymist - specify HOW MY NAME is in this case.))) And I didn’t hide under cliches, but YOU are a sucker just if you are hiding behind a clicker just)))
2nd - YES I don’t give a damn about reconnaissance, and even more so in YOUR interepretation))) Remember uzho - NOT IN IT there were reasons for the defeat at the beginning of the war. In what? Read the lessons and conclusions finally)))

[A1Lukno]

Here adults and know what the user wrote during registration, it is fixed by the computer.
To write that someone from the administration of the site has assigned you Nick. with. the name Vasily is a lie. You are not the first to deceive the gullible readers.
And go into your profile and change the name Vasily Kozinkin apparently mind is not enough.
These are the comments of a completely illiterate person: here and on the site for the truth. Probably one of the children in the book family business is also riveting behind the name of dad Vasily.
There is a saying, Vasily: "What is written with a pen cannot be cut down with an ax."
So while you will be our Vasya

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Here adults and know what the user wrote during registration, it is fixed by the computer.

Adult does not mean that literate - I judge by your comments.

Quote: A1Lukno

both here and on the site for the truth.

Under what nickname was the liar hiding on the website "For Truth"? There was no such author.

Quote: A1Lukno

There is a saying, Vasily: "What is written with a pen cannot be cut down with an ax."

There is another saying about people like you - "If you lie - it won't take much" ...

Quote: A1Lukno

So while you will be our Vasya

Well, you will be a petty swindler with us, since so far not a single document has been submitted.

[A1Lukno]

Why do I even need to register on a site with poorly educated users?
For example, the most authoritative user (as he alone considers it) responds to all objections that this is written in Fomin’s memoirs. Just like an ignoramus Kozinkin, when the quote is above all other facts.
And the fact that a person could write from other people's rumors, ruining, saving himself or one of the higher commanders, is elementary to be mistaken because of knowledge and so on ...
I’m listening to stupid things from you every day ... I go to more intelligent sites

[A1Lukno]

Exactly said

Adult does not mean that literate - I judge by your comments.

That is what I have been saying about you for a long time. Now it came to mind like a giraffe! Something the neck of this giraffe is as long as the moon

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Why do I even need to register on a site with poorly educated users?

Why then bring a link if you are nobody there and you can’t call in any way?

Quote: A1Lukno

I go to smarter sites

Tell me where ...

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: V.S.

SO YOU HANDS have already been shown anonymous - on 1 of June this number of troops was shown and it was BEFORE 500 km from the borders including that is. All the troops in our direction saw the reconnaissance, and by the 22 of June, THESE divisions had already seen that they had been withdrawn directly to the border - in the LESS THAN 500 km)),

You are lying again Vasily Kozinkin. Arrogantly and without arguments and facts! Let users look at the face of a science fiction writer .... To prove something without giving a single fact ...

In the part on ZAPOV intelligence, a detailed comparison of the locations of German troops from intelligence materials on 1 of June 1941 of the year and on 21 of June is given! A significant part of the troops is deployed at the same points of deployment! Why cheat so arrogantly? Where stood June 1 - there are June 21.
Later I will give the same review for the PribOVO and KOVO troops.
DO NOT LIE, MR. KOZINKIN ...

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: V.S.

The military already knows that if the Germans use a bunch of etc. and we see against Brest under 1000 tanks on 5 June already - that means we are waiting for TG ... as a form of such a union)))

In what intelligence data are the military waiting for a bunch of tank divisions near Brest? Bring them to the liar Kozinkin!
Reconnaissance data speak of only one full-fledged tank division in East Prussia (20) and one division in Poland. There are also tank regiments, but not divisions!
No need to cheat. Let's get the facts, liar ...

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: ccsr

I looked at this text by an unknown author in LJ, which only operates ONE article of another little-known author
cited in Peter Greener's article Czechoslovakia'38. What if they fought? in the collection Hitler's Army. The Evolution and Structure of German Forces:
, and wants everyone to believe in this whim.

Why watch something ???? What about the analysis? I did not understand, you have tests only for a medical institution ....
I will explain for those who are in the tank: do not believe me! All Wehrmacht divisions are indicated! We need to find on Wikipedia a site about Wehrmacht divisions and check how many divisions there were before 1 April 1938 years in Germany except those indicated by me !!!
It is very easy, but time consuming.
That is why in my units all divisions, regiments, and later corps and armies are indicated in detail.
It is very easy to verify and identify the author’s lies. You just need to check ...

How tortured schoolchildren-amateurs ... Well, why should be taught overgrown ....

And Milchakov came up with yet another brilliant idea: there is no difference between tank and cavalry divisions. The fact that the intelligence discovered 5 cavalry divisions instead of five tank ones is not scary, since these are the same mobile troops and, probably, in terms of mobility and firepower too ... well, cuckoo is resting ...
It’s not clear just why our June 1 reconnaissance didn’t count the 17 regiments as tank ... It’s good that there was no ccsr /// in the reconnaissance at that time

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

We need to find on Wikipedia a site about Wehrmacht divisions and check how many divisions were in Germany before April 1, 1938, except for those I indicated !!!

Wikipedia is not a document, and is often used by illiterate authors to deceive a gullible public.

Quote: AsmyppoL

It is very easy to verify and identify the author’s lies. You just need to check ...

The author first needs to submit REAL documents, and not links to Wikipedia and LJ. Or at least a print edition that is published by credible authors.

Quote: AsmyppoL

And Milchakov came up with yet another brilliant idea: there is no difference between tank and cavalry divisions.

Cheap juggle, like everything that the author writes in relation to intelligence reports, because it was about the mobility of the connections.

Quote: AsmyppoL

It's good that there was no ccsr /// in intelligence at that time

It’s sad that various swindlers from history, such as AsmyppoL and Victoria, are pushing their lying ideas to VO and, in particular, that intelligence did not provide the necessary information on the eve of the war, although a huge amount of intelligence materials has been declassified, which describes in detail the actions of the German armed forces in the pre-war period. But these amateurs can not understand what is written there, or, most likely, they specially lie for the sake of mercantile interests.

[A1Lukno]

Exactly, your posts have a lot of great quotes from Wikipedia. For example, about a tank regiment from the 15th tank division. Well, a very large kusou copied. And most importantly about nothing. Now I see clearly how you describe yourself: illiterate ... amateurs ... crooks ... use wikipedia
Self-critical. Now I’ll say: I’m sorry for you after such self-criticism and the boy, nevertheless, went to school

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

Exactly, your posts have a lot of great quotes from Wikipedia.

You lie, verbiage - I rarely use Wikipedia, and if I take something from it, then only what is documented.

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: ccsr

Where is the evidence of a swindler that this intelligence report was not checked in the district’s RO, at least according to radio intelligence or other intelligence sources?

I found for a long time that the radio interception data alone did not give anything. Will be through one piece. With error distances of up to several hundred kilometers! And memories that there was nothing about which you are blatantly lying! Two memories of veterans! And three intelligence reports with radio intelligence data that lie as well as undercover intelligence. Details on dozens of headquarters!
Lie - there’s nothing else you can do

[cavl]

Oh, finally a good book, Milchakov!
I'll try to believe that I found something!
Let’s quickly scan the pages mentioning how our radio intelligence opened the enemy’s tank groups and tank corps!
We will bring Victoria and Eugene out into the open! Do not let me down, Milchakov.
Give verbatim and without your own notions give a text about tank groups and ten motorized corps!

[A1Lukno]

Yes, there is nothing to present to Milchakov. He is afraid of facts, like the plague.
Just bring a bunch of great information useless or repeating the text of the article.
The more, the more likely he thinks smarter.
And the fact that he ceased to argue with his understanding of his amateurism and penchant with rudeness - he cannot understand this

[A1Lukno]

Long no sequel
When will it be?

[A1Lukno]

Yeah, I saw it. Publications 17, and visible counted 16. Let's wait!

[ccsr]

Quote: AsmyppoL

I found for a long time that the radio interception data alone did not give anything. Will be through one piece. With error distances of up to several hundred kilometers!

This dirty lie can be easily refuted by materials from the book "The Golden Ear" of Military Intelligence "by M. Boltunov:

In the hut, in which the field marshal was introduced, were Voronov, Rokossovsky and the chief of intelligence of the front’s headquarters, Major General Vinogradov.
After the first exploratory questions, two cards were put in front of Paulus. He recognized one at once. It was his work card seized after captivity.. Glancing at the second map, the field marshal turned pale. His thin face with sunken cheeks seemed to stretch even more. One single phrase of disappointment slipped from Paulus’s thin lips: "There was a big traitor at my headquarters."
When Bezymensky translated this phrase, Voronov and Rokossovsky smiled. Field Marshal was wrong. There was no traitor at his headquarters. Just on the second map, the operators plotted the data on the German Paulus group that our intelligence provided them. A large number of objects on this map appeared after the provision of information by radio intelligence of the front.

Quote: AsmyppoL

Lie - there’s nothing else you can do

I’m even giving links to texts, but from you, a swindler, there haven’t been a single text except Wikipedia and LJ.

[A1Lukno]

No need for extra words, but simply cite the text from the announced book!
There is no where you speak or lie, as usual.
The book states that radio intelligence began to work better only after capturing German documents.
No need to lie, Mr. Milchakov

[A1Lukno]

I am waiting for a specific text about the serif chain 12 of the Wehrmacht army corps before the war! Not a phrase from the intelligence report, where as I see a lot of mistakes, but confirmation that the headquarters of the 12th corps was there ...
They correctly said that not a day without a lie

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

I am waiting for a specific text about the serif chain 12 of the Wehrmacht army corps before the war!

Wait until all reports of radio intelligence in the GRU of the General Staff are declassified, then you will find out who and when specifically determined the operation of the radio network of the 12 army corps before the war.

Quote: A1Lukno

Not a phrase from the intelligence report, where as I see a lot of mistakes,

Don’t lie, you don’t understand at all what is reflected in intelligence reports.

Quote: A1Lukno

They correctly said that not a day without a lie

They spoke correctly in 2011 about such anonymous names as you, Eugene and Victoria -

From the calculations of all kinds of pseudo-historians,

https://topwar.ru/8452-1941-god-skolko-tankov-bylo-u-gitlera.html
By the way, study the article carefully to see how Eugene is lying when evaluating the tanks of the Wehrmacht - however, you are all oiled up in one world ...

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

The book states that radio intelligence began to work better only after capturing German documents.

You didn’t understand everything correctly in the book, because another author, who began his service in the OSN division before the war, mentions that they revealed the location of German divisions in 1941. I brought a scan with memories, study, verbiage, how long before 1941 radio intelligence worked:

In 1938 alone, OKDA radio reconnaissance discovered the composition and locations of more than 700 units and formations of Japanese and Manchu troops.
“... In certain periods,” the report told the Main Military Council of the NPO of the USSR, “(the first months of the Sino-Japanese war, the Japanese operations to capture Nanking and Hankou), all 100% of the intelligence was radio intelligence. 75% of the data on troop movements from Japan to China and Manchuria, as well as on troop deployment in war zones, were radio intelligence data. ”

Mikhail Efimovich Boltunov
The "golden ear" of military intelligence

Quote: A1Lukno

No need to lie, Mr. Milchakov

No need to lie to an unknown swindler - it’s better not to read selectively, but the entire text of the book, then maybe at least you will learn something about radio intelligence.

[ccsr]

Quote: V.S.

Escho times for stupid - the reasons for the defeats are not in the intelligence - that is what the military gave everything completely)))

He will never recognize this, because then everything that he wrote in several articles will have to be called a dirty lie paid by certain structures that discredit our Victory in the Second World War.

[AsmyppoL]

Quote: ccsr

1 — try MARSHAL Golikov to be called a liar))) So declare — I’m such a bastard — that under the clique Asmipol hid in VO - I think Golikov is a liar)))

Again, the literary man Kozinkin deceives ... Deception should cover up the lies in his creations ...

Why refute the words of the head of the Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army, if all intelligence reports are signed by him! try to refute that he did not sign the bulletins! )))

It was the head of the Intelligence Agency who signed the report indicating the presence in Germany of 286-296 divisions! It is these words that he repeats in his memoirs! And how many divisions did the German have ?! 209,5!
An error in the intelligence data and it does not need to be refuted! This can be clearly seen, but fraudulent writers should say "black" to "white" ... If only books were bought and profits dripped: drip-drip ... For this, you can deceive readers, basing your version only on quotes that are nothing do not confirm.
And to arrogant twists, as it is given in the quote of the gentleman ...

120 divisions 22 June? And why does their distribution along the front not correspond to intelligence reports from 31.5.41? Summary No. 5 of the West? Summary No.1 of June 22 1941 of the year? Of course, it’s easier to pretend to be a misunderstanding person and cling to a quote from the memoirs that intelligence provided all that is needed ...
Liar and crook writer Kozinkin

[VS]

Quote: cavl

how our radio intelligence opened the enemy tank groups and tank corps!

miracle - YES DO NOT NEED this is basically intelligence)))

The main thing is to see the number of parts and equipment. The rest is in what structures the Germans can assemble these parts and equipment - the BUSINESS of the General Staff and HIS haemorrhoids and not intelligence)))

[ccsr]

Quote: V.S.

The main thing is to see the number of parts and equipment.

By the way, even Halder in his diaries does not bother with the Soviet armies and corps, but assesses the forces of the Red Army in divisions and their weapons:
Halder wrote:
“By the beginning of the war, we had against ourselves about 200 enemy divisions. Now we already have 360 Russian divisions. These divisions, of course, are not so armed and not as equipped as ours, and their command is tactically weaker than ours, but be that as it may, these divisions are. And if we break up a dozen such divisions, the Russians will form a new dozen. ”
But our mitrofanushki and Halder will not be believed, and again they will begin to lie that the most important thing was to know the number of the tank group or where its headquarters was.

[A1Lukno]

Quote: ccsr

Quote: AsmyppoL

No need to cheat - just show where in the intelligence reports indicate the location of large tank groups !!

Don’t distort the rogue - you earlier squealed that the headquarters of the tank groups were not indicated, but now you started to wriggle, and you start talking about the locations of the tank groups. But here he managed to show himself as an amateur, because in the General Staff of the General Staff there was data on the PLACEMENT of German groupings of troops:

And if stupid like a tree, then be born a baobab ...
That's right, Eugene, you asked: why bring it? Because dumb ...
The areas of deployment of German troops are circled by a summary of the west. For example, in the part of the troops located against the ZAPOVO, you, Eugene, examined everything up to the regiment and showed who remained and who never existed.
Thank you for that. It was interesting to check on the maps on the tables which units and divisions were fictional. And outwardly, all parts are reconnaissance in the wings ...
I did not find anything about tank and mechanized troops.

[ccsr]

Quote: A1Lukno

That's right, Eugene, you asked: why bring it? Because dumb ...

Only the stupid would believe Eugene or you and Victoria, instead of believing in a reliable source of information, published on the basis of declassified GRU materials.

Quote: A1Lukno

Thank you for that.

I do not need an assessment of some illiterate people - I had other "assessors", no match for different verbiage like you, so save your flattery for Eugene.

Quote: A1Lukno

I did not find anything about tank and mechanized troops.

Are you sure that you are available all the materials available in the GRU GSH and which did not get on the network?
Learn what you have already discovered:

[cavl]

Just stupid doesn't believe
She does not know how to analyze data and, therefore, is simply not able to write anything coherent .........