Military Review

Product face. Who will buy the fifth generation Russian fighter?

101

Guests are dear


They tried to make MAX-2019 as spectacular as possible: as much as possible in conditions of actual isolation, when you should not wait for crowds of foreign guests and overseas exhibits. Viewers, for example, were first shown experimental C-37 on a static site. The once-promising “deck”, existing in one flight instance and useful for testing the technology of the Su-57 fighter.




It was the latter that became the main hit of the air show: few could imagine that Russia would decide to show a fifth generation fighter to a wide circle of people on a static platform. On the plate proudly flaunted “Su-57е”, where the letter “e” denotes the export orientation of the machine. This, of course, is just a publicity stunt. De facto, they showed us not a new version of the aircraft, not a pre-production model, and not even one of the flying prototypes. “Su-57e” is nothing more than an integrated full-scale stand (KNS) for ground tests, which has existed for quite some time.

It is unreasonable to blame the organizers of the cabin: no country in the world will most likely put on display the latest inconspicuous fifth-generation fighter for everyone to see: if you want to see the F-35, Su-57 or J-20 - watch flight performances. The logic is simple. The real possibilities of a real export Su-57 will largely depend on the customer’s desire. It’s hard to say what exactly he wants.

In fairness, we note: now there are pretty high-quality photos of the latest flight prototypes of the Su-57 - T-50-10 aircraft (tail number 510) and T-50-11 (tail number 511). They give a good idea of ​​what will be a production aircraft, which, as we are promised, will be ready this year. Of course, with the so-called engine of the first stage, that is, AL-41F1. Which is nothing but a profound modernization of the Soviet AL-31F engine mounted on a Su-27 fighter.

The above facts are especially important when you consider that foreign customers will also receive just such a complete set: the new engine, the “Type 30”, will be ready in the second half of the 2020's. And maybe at the end of the next decade.

With current engines, the platform’s potential is not fully disclosed, but here one more important point needs to be taken into account: engines are certainly important, but stealth is much more important for a fifth-generation fighter. It is her experts who consider one of the main reasons for India’s refusal to participate in the project to create an export version of Su-57, formerly known as FGFA. Allegedly, the plane does not comply with stealth standards in the form in which it takes place on overseas vehicles. Judging by the photo, where the prototype of the engine compressor blades were clearly visible, this is most likely true. But you need to wait for the serial version of the machine, while it is too early to draw conclusions.



“E” means Erdogan


Now the main candidate for the purchase of Su-57 is Turkey, paradoxically as it sounds in connection with history with a downed Su-24 bomber. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was able to consider a new aircraft during the Moscow air show.

“Is it Su-57? .. And is it already flying?” - Erdogan asked Vladimir Putin during the inspection of the exposition of the air show.

“Flies,” the Russian president said.

“Can you buy it?” Asked Erdogan.

“You can buy,” Putin answered with a smile.

"Why not? We haven’t come in vain. After we find out the final decision of the USA (according to F-35. - Approx. Aut.), We will take our own steps. The market where we can provide ourselves with what we need is large, ”the Turkish leader told reporters.

All this very eloquently shows the seriousness of intentions. However, one more thing can be understood from Erdogan’s answer: even after the Americans gave Turkey a turn from the goal regarding the purchase of the F-35, the Turks still do not want to abandon the project. So the fate of the Turkish Su-57 directly depends on the decisiveness of Uncle Sam, which is still unshakable.



Recall, back in 2018, the US Congress officially banned the supply of F-35 fighters to Turkey due to Ankara's purchase of Russian C-400 anti-aircraft missile systems. The latter are increasingly viewed as a formality, since so many political contradictions between the West and Turkey have accumulated over recent years that the problem of buying a C-400 simply fades against this background. Anti-aircraft missile systems - just an excuse to cool the ardor of Erdogan. In turn, the warming of relations between Turkey and the Russian Federation, as well as the need for Turkey to rearm its army, makes Erdogan the main potential buyer of the Su-57.

Su-57 vs J-20


Against the backdrop of the Russian-Turkish talks on the Su-57, other interesting information appeared. The Chinese state-owned publication Huanqiu Shibao recently wrote about the possibility of acquiring the Celestial Empire of Russian fighters, but only after a detailed comparison with the Chinese J-20. Experts from China noted that the Su-57 probably has superior thrust and maneuverability. “One video of a demonstration flight to any specialist in aviation it’s already clear that the Su-57 engines are superior in quality to the engines of our J-20 fighters. At the same time, the Russians say that these are also engines of the first stage (first stage. - Approx. Auth.). And there they are also preparing the second stage, ”the Chinese experts noted in the discussion of the demonstration performances of the Su-57 at MAKS-2019.

However, the thesis of a possible purchase by China of Su-57 seems far-fetched. The Chinese have already received the technology of new Russian engines in the face of AL-41F1C: together with a batch of 24 Su-35C fighters. AL-41F1C engines and AL-57F41 installed on the Su-1 are different products. However, neither one nor the other meets the requirements of the fifth generation, which means that China is hardly interested.

From the point of view of increasing the combat effectiveness of the Chinese Air Force, the issue is considered incorrect in principle. China is already mass-producing fifth-generation fighter J-20, and on the approach J-31, which experts consider the deck “invisibility” for promising Chinese aircraft carriers. China may be interested in issues related to stealth. However, it seems that the PRC itself does not doubt the superiority of the J-20 over the Russian fighter in this sense.



In general, Su-57 is facing difficult times that will show whether the machine is competitive in the global market. Now, developers will not be able to blame failures for "secrecy" or "the need to ensure the native Air Force."

The interest from foreign customers is a direct demonstration of the potential of a combat aircraft. If the machine really has outstanding capabilities, then there will always be a customer for it. If not, then no.
Author:
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  1. Makar79
    Makar79 9 September 2019 05: 14
    0
    A video. where can I see how it flies?
    1. svp67
      svp67 9 September 2019 09: 13
      +7
      Quote: Makar79
      A video. where can I see how it flies?

      Yes, any number ...
  2. The comment was deleted.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 9 September 2019 08: 37
      +5
      Why so hard? Putin at 20 - he suggested Trump the Dagger to be sold (he himself said this at a recent forum, and the State Department confirmed the refusal), if they ask, then you can also put Su-57 directly wink .
    2. DimerVladimer
      DimerVladimer 9 September 2019 13: 12
      +3
      Quote: Vladleslaf
      already sold out to China aircraft that they grew into competitors, it remains to sell everything else to Erdogan so that he sold it to amers from Europe for a cut. tempering


      With wisdom, the equipment sold (not piece copies but lots) allows us to go further in the development and that means to get ahead of competitors.
  3. Beringovsky
    Beringovsky 9 September 2019 07: 18
    -11
    In general, everything is clear with Su57. There are no engines; a country that has risen from its knees with the help of Putin is not capable of engines crying
    Upgrading old Soviet engines is still possible, but new ones are gone.
    With stealth, too, not so hot. There remains only "super-maneuverability", but it is not clear whether it is so necessary.
    And what about Su with weapons and avionics? Is everything all right?
    1. svp67
      svp67 9 September 2019 09: 20
      +11
      Quote: Beringovsky
      There are no engines; a country that has risen from its knees with the help of Putin is not capable of engines

      How many countries are there in the world? And how long does it take them to create on such engines?
      Quote: Beringovsky
      With stealth, too, is not so hot.

      Do you have specific information on this characteristic or do you get it from the reports of the "OBS agency"? You can specifically.
      Quote: Beringovsky
      There remains only "super-maneuverability", but it is not clear whether it is so necessary.

      "Supermaneuverability" is one of the side properties of the aircraft, which it acquired due to its aerodynamic qualities and engine capabilities. And he can do what other fighters cannot, even if they try very, very hard. And what's wrong with that?
      Quote: Beringovsky
      And what about Su with weapons and avionics? Is everything all right?

      In your opinion, everything should be bad? And in general, you shouldn't have written such a long commentary, it was enough just to write: "Everything is lost !!!"
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 9 September 2019 09: 30
        +5
        Quote: svp67
        You shouldn't have written such a long comment, it was enough just to write: "Everything is lost !!!"

        IMHO it was an attempt to give "all-gone" a certain semblance of objectivity. IMHO attempt failed request
      2. Victoria-V
        Victoria-V 9 September 2019 10: 00
        +1
        Well, you can’t. The article is about engines, and about stealth ... It seems that some people don’t even read articles, only comments. And then the distribution of cons.
        1. svp67
          svp67 9 September 2019 10: 16
          -1
          Quote: Victoria-In
          Well, you can’t. The article is about engines and stealth ...

          How can you? Yes, there is more or less that it is described, mainly about the engine. But the question is, how many countries have a similar engine that Russia creates for this fighter? Once and for all ... And from this, far-reaching conclusions are made that "everything is lost ..." It's not even funny.
          And what about "stealth". Where are the specific test and research results? Everything is at the level of competitors' "ratings"
          Quote: Victoria-In
          It seems that some do not even read articles, only comments.

          It seems that you cannot understand the meaning of what you read not in the article itself, not in the comments
          1. Victoria-V
            Victoria-V 9 September 2019 13: 12
            +1
            Here in the article: Allegedly the plane does not meet the stealth standards in the form in which it takes place on overseas cars. Judging by the photo, where the engine compressor blades were clearly visible on the prototype ... 1. I hope you know that the engine compressor blades looking out of the air intake indicate a high radar signature of the aircraft. And the blades are no longer made of titanium (VT-22 alloy). Know about composite materials firsthand? 2. Here is the beginning of the tests in a popular form: http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=543&p=46 Compare. 3. And no need to talk about Type-30 (or "Product-30"). As they do, so we will say. Nickel alloy blades? Let's see ...
            1. Beringovsky
              Beringovsky 9 September 2019 13: 59
              -12
              It is useless to explain ... the fact that the hot engines stick out of the body almost does not tell them anythinglaughing but stick out, because they are too hot and close well crying all hope is likely for an 30 product ... which is not. And it will be in the middle of 20x, or maybe not crying
              But proud we need right now fellow Urya.
              1. Voyager
                Voyager 9 September 2019 16: 51
                +3
                What does it mean no?

                And how "hot" engines can affect the RCS, which primarily depends on the specifics of the airframe geometry, its radio-absorbing coating and measures to hide the air intakes?

                Do you generally understand that absolutely everything that you are writing now is illiterate cliches for children typed on the Internet? Understand where you replicate them?
                1. Beringovsky
                  Beringovsky 9 September 2019 18: 02
                  -6
                  And how "hot" engines can affect the RCS, which primarily depends on the specifics of the airframe geometry, its radio-absorbing coating and measures to hide the air intakes?

                  Well, what is the "specificity of the geometry" of the engines sticking out?

                  Probably good? laughing and how will you apply a radar absorbing coating on them? recourse request
                  or fight with the adversary, we will only face-to-face, as in a knightly tournament? and what to do with the turbine blades?
                  soldier and if the adversary comes in from the side? belay
                  I’m not saying that these engines in the IF spectrum shine like a light in a lantern.
                  1. Voyager
                    Voyager 9 September 2019 18: 30
                    +4
                    Well, what is the "specificity of the geometry" of the engines sticking out? Probably good?

                    A glider is a glider. Engines are engines.
                    Educational program: the geometry of the stealth glider consists in a low (flattened) silhouette and parallel lines located at a certain angle, which have minimal reflection of radio waves to the transmitter of the irradiator. Hence the triangular shape at the wing, reduced number of joints and "jagged" transitions. All these measures are applied to minimize the reflection of radio waves from all angles, but not to the detriment of flight performance. Otherwise we get an iron 117.
                    For particularly tight: all these qualities are present on the Su-57 in full.
                    and how will you apply a radar absorbing coating on them?

                    No radio absorbing coating is applied to the nozzles. They use a special form of "teeth", which can be seen on Product 30. In addition, the protruding non-stealth nozzle of the same F-35 for some reason does not bother you. Why? wink
                    Quote: Beringovsky
                    or fight with the adversary, we will only face-to-face, as in a knightly tournament?

                    This is the most common development in aerial combat. Su-57 was designed with all the scenarios in mind.
                    Quote: Beringovsky
                    and what to do with the turbine blades?

                    These are not turbine blades, but radar blockers, I already wrote about this.
                    Quote: Beringovsky
                    and if the adversary comes in from the side?

                    The adversary will not go sideways, because it will be detected by lateral AFAR radars that Su-57 has, but not American planes. And if it does, then exactly the same thing will happen as if our plane enters the adversary from the side.
                    Quote: Beringovsky
                    I’m not saying that these engines in the IF spectrum shine like a light in a lantern.

                    And don’t talk. They shine everywhere. On F-22 a little less, on the others a little more. If earlier this was relevant, today for missiles with modern infrared guidance heads, neither one nor the other is a problem. Therefore, today even the Americans did not make a key bet on this when developing a new fighter.
                    1. Beringovsky
                      Beringovsky 9 September 2019 20: 46
                      -3
                      Likbez: the stealth glider geometry consists in a low (flattened) silhouette and parallel lines located at a certain angle, providing minimal reflection of radio waves to the transmitter of the irradiator.


                      Where are the "flatness" and "parallel lines" here?
                    2. Beringovsky
                      Beringovsky 9 September 2019 20: 48
                      -3
                      Are the differences in the front lower hemisphere clearly visible?

                      this is amer.
                      1. Voyager
                        Voyager 9 September 2019 21: 45
                        0
                        Umm, as they say, and cho? smile In fact, it is no secret that Sukhoi made a bet on reducing the visibility of the front hemisphere in order to maintain balance with flight qualities and based on the application doctrine. The mid-sectional area is identical with the amer and the EPR in the frontal projection is identical for them - this is the main thing and this is what the developers sought, consciously choosing the design of the airframe (and based on the features of avionics, but this is another story).
                        Yes, in Su-57, between two air intakes and engine nacelles, a space of about 1,5 m wide is a familiar design in the style of Sukhoi. And it forms a bearing surface with an area of ​​several square meters, due to which the lifting force increases. Hence, additional buns with flight capabilities at large angles of attack and angular velocity of a turn. And survivability is higher in case of failure of one of the engines. A belly deployed to the radar will shine many times more than any aircraft. Only this is not a key scenario for the development of events in the DVB, it is a situation from the BVB, when the EPR does not matter anymore and where the Americans will be crippled, and Su-57 not.

                        As I said, the aircraft industry is a complete compromise wink
                    3. Beringovsky
                      Beringovsky 9 September 2019 20: 54
                      +1
                      This is china's laughing

                      is the difference with Su visible?
                    4. Beringovsky
                      Beringovsky 9 September 2019 21: 13
                      -2
                      Radar absorbing coating is not applied to the nozzle.

                      what does the nozzle have to do with it? And here it is applied?

                      So why is he not there?
                      They use a special form of "teeth", which can be seen on Product 30

                      so there is none yet crying
                      In addition, the sticking out non-stealth nozzle at the same F-35 for some reason does not bother you. Why?

                      let it confuse the pilots of the f35. But in case of which we will have to deal with F22, and there everything is in order with that.
                      And don’t talk. They shine everywhere.

                      Well, yes, only in different ways wink one light bulb per kilometer is visible, and the other, and from a hundred meters barely visible. Given the very strong superiority of amers in electronics in general and sensors in particular, this is of great importance. Whoever sees first has that advantage.
                      The adversary will not go sideways, because it will be detected by lateral AFAR radars,

                      turning them on will lose all "invisibility". Besides, at what distance can these puny auxiliary radars be able to spot the enemy?
                      1. Voyager
                        Voyager 9 September 2019 21: 58
                        +4
                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        And here it is applied?
                        So why is he not there?

                        Apply. There is.

                        Well, or here's the look of the serial. You would have dragged the KNS photo in order to show open hoods laughing

                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        so there is none yet

                        You need glasses smile
                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        let it confuse the pilots of the f35. But in case of which we will have to deal with F22, and there everything is in order with that.

                        F-35 claims to be the most popular fighter in the future and we will have to deal with it. F-22 will only decrease over time. And, as I said, its engines do not represent problems for modern high-quality GOS.
                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        turning them on will lose all "invisibility".

                        And your vaunted adversary as he sees the enemy, if he does not turn on his AFAR and does not start to glow like a Christmas tree?
                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        Moreover, at what distance are these pretty Can auxiliary radars spot an adversary?

                        Comrade Major hi
                      2. Beringovsky
                        Beringovsky 9 September 2019 22: 32
                        -1
                        Apply. There is.

                        I'm glad, seriously. Unless of course it's not heat resistant paint. For the radar absorbing coating is somehow not very friendly with high temperature.
                        You need glasses

                        rather, the machine of the future, to get into the 2025 year. There I will see him in Drying. Or not.
                        F-35 claims to be the most popular fighter in the future and we will have to deal with it.

                        I agree.
                        F-22 will only decline over time

                        I do not quite agree. The raptor is being modernized and quite successfully, this is not a secret. F22 is an excellent samol. Of course there will be fewer, but is it critical? There are almost 200 pcs and in conjunction with Ф35 it is power. How many Su57 do we have there? Ah, not one ...
                        And your vaunted adversary as he sees the enemy, if he does not turn on his AFAR and does not start to glow like a Christmas tree?

                        1) from Ф22.
                        2) from Avax
                        3) from ground defense systems
                        4) with drones (possible)
                        5) using IF sensors. By the way, it is to them that the Americans are now paying special attention. As one journalist says - Coincidence? I don’t think so ...
                      3. Voyager
                        Voyager 9 September 2019 23: 01
                        +1
                        Well, you see, we are starting to find common ground smile

                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        There I will see him in Drying. Or not.

                        So I already showed it to you. Here again:

                        The one on the left (closer). He is shorter and less protruding and with teeth.
                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        F22 is an excellent samol.

                        I agree with this, but there are several BUT.
                        Firstly, this is a plane ahead of its time, yes, but that was 20 years ago. He gets upgrades, but mostly new "firmware" and program codes. That is, in terms of the same radar, for example, the F-22 has received practically nothing new since its release. And the "Belka" of the 57th, as well as its electronic warfare complex KS101, is much more perfect and more functional today. Yes, it plays a role that they came out later, but nevertheless, we have what we have. Well, and we are not discussing all the same tactical abilities and aircraft armament. Still, Seabiscuit has a range of weapons at times, literally many times more. The F-22 will not be able to launch the same tactical missiles such as our Gadfly and other special equipment, including ultra-long-range explosives. This must also be taken into account.
                        Secondly, F-22 almost 200 pieces, but in flight and combat readiness out of half. And I personally doubt that the number of combat readiness will increase.
                        Quote: Beringovsky
                        1) from Ф22.
                        2) from Avax
                        3) from ground defense systems
                        4) with drones (possible)
                        5) using IF sensors. By the way, it is to them that the Americans are now paying special attention. As one journalist says - Coincidence? I don’t think so ...

                        Okay.
                        1) If F-22 turns on its radar, it exits masking mode.
                        2) We also have AWACS.
                        3) Comment will be below
                        4) Also below
                        5) And what is the operating range? The same Raptor does not have an OLS on board, but it provides a stable search and capture already at 50 km, if not more. And given that the Raptor's AFAR, according to official data, sees a 1 m2 target at a distance of 241 km, at what distance should it see the Su-57 in a "vacuum" frontal projection? There is also data on another example: the target detection range of 0,1 m2 (a typical cruise missile) for our station is 165 km, for the American about 115 km. The only data that is, what to believe and how - let everyone decide for himself. I still believe that in a spherical collision, both planes will see each other almost simultaneously. Excluding interference. And they will, and then, one devil knows, OLS enters into the course.

                        About 3 and 4. The problem is that for some reason you are considering a theater of action on enemy territory. (Radar from air defense, drones ...). The reality is that our doctrine is built around defensive measures and we just rely primarily on the motive on our territory. Where we ourselves have a radar and AWACS and so on. Those drones will not survive there. And the AWAXS will be shot down first. But these are all spherical horses in a vacuum.
                      4. Beringovsky
                        Beringovsky 9 September 2019 23: 16
                        0
                        Yeah, we seem to have caught a herd of spherical horses. You can certainly add, but the time is later. So some other time.
                      5. Voyager
                        Voyager 9 September 2019 23: 51
                        0
                        Goodnight )
                      6. Beringovsky
                        Beringovsky 9 September 2019 23: 52
                        -1
                        And you do not get sick drinks
                2. The comment was deleted.
              2. svp67
                svp67 9 September 2019 20: 47
                +2
                Quote: Beringovsky
                It is useless to explain ...

                Dear, these planes flew to Syria, through the territory of Iraq. In any case, the United States had the opportunity to remove some of its characteristics, in terms of stealth. And if there was "horror, horror" or "everything was lost," then they would have tried to trumpet about it all over the world, as they have done more than once, to remember at least our unsuccessful history of trying to sell the T-80U abroad. But the statesmen are silent, unlike you, they do not show these materials to the same Indians
                1. KrokodilGena
                  KrokodilGena 11 September 2019 02: 28
                  -1
                  Quote: svp67
                  And if there was "horror, horror" or "everything was lost," then they would have tried to trumpet about it all over the world, as they have done more than once,

                  Can you please in more detail about the horror-horror in the products of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation, about which, trying very hard, the Americans trumpeted more than once? I’m not sure, of course, that the Su57 flew over Iraq, as if they weren’t getting there and that the Amer’s radars were there, but let's say they were standing and lit, maybe this is why doubts about the stealth of the latter come from all sides?
                  1. svp67
                    svp67 11 September 2019 06: 27
                    +1
                    Quote: KrokodilGena
                    Can you please in more detail about the horror-horror in the products of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation, about which, very hard, the Americans trumpeted more than once

                    I have already given an example with our T-80U tank, do you know about this?
                    Quote: KrokodilGena
                    I’m not sure, of course, that Su57 flew over Iraq, not in any way, and that there are Amer’s radars ..

                    And in what way do our military planes fly to Syria? Through Turkey? Or Antarctica?
                    1. KrokodilGena
                      KrokodilGena 11 September 2019 14: 09
                      0
                      Quote: svp67
                      Do you know about this?

                      And what about the T-80? Lost tender in Greece? And what have the Americans to do with it ??? How do you know when and where the Americans are blowing something? Do you have specific examples?
                      Quote: svp67
                      And in what way do our military planes fly to Syria? Through Turkey? Or Antarctica?

                      They fly through Iran. Although a scrap of Iraq fly by.
                      1. svp67
                        svp67 11 September 2019 20: 50
                        0
                        Quote: KrokodilGena
                        And what about the T-80?

                        It was fraudulently bought and completely "decomposed into atoms" by examining everything and laying out data on its identified shortcomings to promising buyers, especially on armor protection
                        Quote: KrokodilGena
                        They fly through Iran. Although a scrap of Iraq fly by.

                        All the same, through Iraq ... Thank you
                      2. KrokodilGena
                        KrokodilGena 13 September 2019 23: 16
                        -1
                        The USSR tanks of the latest versions at that time were of only one interest in the composition of the armor of the tower, its front hemisphere, cheeks, filler, etc., and the VLD of the front hemisphere of the hull, the rest is all equally weak, from T-72A to T-73B3. I suppose then everything was already known, and there were other relations with the Americans. The T-80 lost due to the MSA, accuracy, shorter combat qualities.
                      3. svp67
                        svp67 14 September 2019 11: 53
                        0
                        Quote: KrokodilGena
                        . The T-80 lost due to the MSA, accuracy, shorter combat qualities.

                        Who told you that? T-80U, at that time was a very good machine, in relation to the MSA is not much inferior to the Americans
              3. maximon2005
                maximon2005 10 September 2019 00: 14
                0
                Engines are always much more complicated than an airplane and they are made longer than an airplane. In the USSR, engines have always lagged in all respects from American and Western. Let's do it, this is a very complex unit. The Chinese buying fighters from us can only copy the plane, but the engines cannot. Too sophisticated technology that we do not issue, but only sell off-the-shelf engines.
            2. Voyager
              Voyager 9 September 2019 16: 54
              0
              Judging by the photo, where the prototype was clearly visible engine compressor blades ... 1. I hope you know that the engine compressor blades looking out of the air intake indicate a great radar visibility of the aircraft. And the blades are no longer made of titanium (VT-22 alloy). Do you know firsthand about composite materials?

              And it didn’t occur to you (as to the author) that it is not the compressor blades of the engine that are visible, but the radar blockers? But in vain, because they are laughing wink
              Fir-trees, all this has been frayed dozens of times in recent years, where do you come from ...
              1. Beringovsky
                Beringovsky 9 September 2019 18: 39
                -3
                And it didn’t occur to you (as to the author) that it is not the compressor blades of the engine that are visible, but the radar blockers? But in vain, because they are

                Just think, Boeing, Lockheed, the Chinese are fighting to ensure that the blades are not visible, but here everything is so simple - put the "radar blockers" and it's in the bag! Yes you are a genius sir hi (no lol )
                The engine compressor blades looking out of the air intake, that is, the absence of a “serpentine” (S-shaped air intakes), indicate a large radar visibility of the aircraft. In fourth-generation fighters, they try to hide the blades with deflectors, but such a decision can negatively affect the operation of the power plant.
                Seem to be laughing
                Do you generally understand that absolutely everything that you are writing now is illiterate cliches for children typed on the Internet? Understand where you replicate them?
                1. Voyager
                  Voyager 9 September 2019 18: 47
                  0
                  Quote: Beringovsky
                  Yes you are a genius sir

                  Well, not me, but patent holders and engineers.
                  Quote: Beringovsky
                  The engine compressor blades looking out of the air intake, that is, the absence of a “serpentine” (S-shaped air intakes), indicate a large radar visibility of the aircraft.

                  I repeat once again: these are not shoulder blades, but radar blockers. And to determine whether the EPR is high in an airplane today, only its developers can. Less accurately: other specialists who are trying to predict the EPR by studying the layouts and composition of RP coatings. You do not look like such a specialist how much.
                  Quote: Beringovsky
                  In fourth-generation fighters, they try to hide the blades with deflectors, but such a decision can negatively affect the operation of the power plant.

                  S-shaped air intakes also negatively affect the operation of the power plant. The aircraft industry is always a compromise.
                  1. Beringovsky
                    Beringovsky 9 September 2019 21: 24
                    -1
                    You do not look like such a specialist how much.

                    you too. If there were specialists on the site, I would rather read them.
                    But they have long fled from VO. lol so we have what we have.
                    S-shaped air intakes also negatively affect the operation of the power plant. The aircraft industry is always a compromise.

                    It seems to me, as a layman, that making an airframe with S-shaped air intakes is much more difficult than installing deflectors? Or not?
                    So why did both the Americans and the Chinese choose this path? Deflectors would cram and deal with the end. But no negative
                    1. Voyager
                      Voyager 9 September 2019 22: 07
                      0
                      Quote: Beringovsky
                      you too.

                      I, unlike you, do not put pseudo-diagnoses about "poor stealth" wink
                      Quote: Beringovsky
                      It seems to me, as a layman, that making an airframe with S-shaped air intakes is much more difficult than installing deflectors? Or not?
                      So why did both the Americans and the Chinese choose this path? Deflectors would cram and deal with the end. But no

                      The Chinese generally automatically copy everything they see laughing But seriously, these decisions are dictated by the structure of the airframe and the features of the mid-sectional area, the location of the engine nacelles and other similar factors. We could blow the air intakes in the same way, and move the engines on the contrary, especially since there is such an experience. But they didn’t. Everything rests on TK and needs.
                    2. Voyager
                      Voyager 9 September 2019 22: 27
                      0
                      By the way, the same applies to flat nozzles, which we made and tested on LL, but later abandoned this idea.
    2. Old major
      Old major 9 September 2019 11: 45
      +1
      Another fighter with a "bloody path and KGB regime", only illiterate and without a profession.
  4. Amateur
    Amateur 9 September 2019 07: 19
    +11
    The Chinese have already received Technology new Russian engines represented by AL-41F1C:

    When the author learns to distinguish the engine from the manufacturing technology of this engine. We all know how to use a TV. Some even took it apart. But so far no one has done it in the kitchen.
    1. venik
      venik 9 September 2019 14: 10
      -1
      Quote: Amateur
      We all know how to use a TV. Some even took it apart. But so far no one has done it in the kitchen.

      ========
      Well why ??? My friend (and "classmate") just assembled the first TV set in the kitchen ....
      Now he has a company, he even rivets something for the "defense industry" ...
      Well, you say - "NOBODY" !!! request
      1. Amateur
        Amateur 9 September 2019 14: 15
        +6
        Well why ??? My friend (and "classmate") just assembled the first TV set in the kitchen ....

        Did he cut transistors from cast iron or from luminium?
        You, unfortunately, do not catch the difference between "made" and "assembled" from ready-made components. Alas request
  5. Snakebyte
    Snakebyte 9 September 2019 07: 51
    -3
    a new engine, the “30 Type”, will be ready in the second half of the 2020's. And maybe at the end of the next decade.
    With current engines, the platform’s potential is not fully disclosed, but here one more important point needs to be taken into account: engines are certainly important, but stealth is much more important for a fifth-generation fighter. It is her experts who consider one of the main reasons for India’s refusal to participate in the project to create an export version of Su-57, formerly known as FGFA. Allegedly, the plane does not comply with stealth standards in the form in which it takes place on overseas vehicles. Judging by the photo, where the prototype of the engine compressor blades were clearly visible, this is most likely true.

    Yeah. When two years ago I wrote that there are no engines and there is no stealth, what titles did the local "patriotic community" award me with. As it turns out, millions of flies can be wrong too.
    1. svp67
      svp67 9 September 2019 10: 51
      0
      Quote: Snakebyte
      When two years ago I wrote that there are no engines and there is no stealth, what titles did the local "patriotic community" award me with.

      Is there a bridge to the Crimea? You have not written anything about this for a couple of years?
      1. Snakebyte
        Snakebyte 9 September 2019 11: 38
        -3
        So on the merits there is nothing to argue.
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 9 September 2019 17: 04
          +2
          And what objection do you want? What you write is not true. The old engine still has advantages over most other Western counterparts. A new engine exists at the prototype stage, work is ongoing. The glider of the aircraft is fully provided with a set of measures to hide the EPR. What else is needed?
          1. Snakebyte
            Snakebyte 9 September 2019 19: 47
            -5
            For a patriot, the main thing is to sacredly believe in your phantom inventions.
            The engine is inferior to the western 5 generation engines, even the ancient F119, not to mention the new F135. The new years 5-10 will be finished without a guarantee of success.
            Uncoated engine compressor blades - a unique domestic measure of ESR reduction?
            However, the patriotic community does not admit that it is wrong even when their "charm" is disgraced to the whole world.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 9 September 2019 20: 07
              +1
              The facts are not related to faith or patriotism. Than inferior, traction and resource? Yes. On the contrary, nozzle rejection capabilities are an unattainable advantage. Its key role (bringing a fighter to supersonic speed without afterburner, ensuring super maneuverability, short take-off) has a different role than your vaunted F135. Let me remind you that the carrier is not capable of either stable “supersonic” without afterburner, or super maneuverability, but you didn’t notice it, right? And this shame is not interesting to you. And about the shoulder blades read above, I'm tired of repeating everything to everyone.
              There is a healthy criticism, but your criticism does not apply to it.
              1. Snakebyte
                Snakebyte 10 September 2019 19: 14
                -1
                And why is this all-aspect nozzle needed, in addition to spectacular performances at air shows? Maneuvering a modern missile will still not work, and radars have long learned not to lose "hovering" targets.
                Continue to believe in wonderful turns, radar blockers and geniuses of the domestic defense industry. All over the world, they have already lost faith in unique and advanced Russian weapons. Recent competitions and contracts show this clearly.
                1. Voyager
                  Voyager 10 September 2019 19: 40
                  +1
                  And Sergei Bogdan thinks differently. Who to believe, the respected Snakebyte, who claims that such a nozzle is needed only for air shows, or the test pilot, who directly states that the presence of these engines is dictated by many scenarios of their use in combat conditions? In addition, I have already clearly described to you that the engines perform all of their key functions, they refused the flat nozzle on purpose, and not because they were "niche". What else do you need?
            2. Constructor68
              Constructor68 10 September 2019 23: 46
              0
              Uncoated engine compressor blades - a unique domestic measure of ESR reduction?

              Confirm I hope your words about "naked shoulder blades"
          2. Victoria-V
            Victoria-V 9 September 2019 20: 15
            -5
            The old engine still has advantages over most other Western counterparts - How not to be ashamed to write such nonsense? Don't you read serious analytics at all?
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 9 September 2019 20: 24
              0
              Since when has your pulp fiction become serious analytics? Show me a modern production western engine with an all-round UVT.

              Spoiler: you will not show.
              The curtain, goodbye.
      2. TARSUS
        TARSUS 9 September 2019 18: 55
        -2
        As you already got with your bridge ...
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 9 September 2019 20: 11
          +4
          This bridge will set fire to you, Svidomo, for more than a decade, the fifth point and we will always be happy to recall this. In truth, an excellent building with exemplary construction dates.
          1. Constructor68
            Constructor68 10 September 2019 09: 30
            +1
            Voyager, hammer!))) laughing laughing laughing
      3. Victoria-V
        Victoria-V 9 September 2019 20: 21
        -4
        What is the talk about the bridge? You are not mistaken site? About the shoulder blades have something to add?
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 10 September 2019 09: 28
          -1
          About the shoulder blades have something to add?

          What do you know about shoulder blades, madame? Well, other than the subtle from the sofa-analytical resources? What do you generally know about the ability of materials to reflect, scatter and absorb the energy of an incident radio signal? What do you know about the properties of RPPs based on solutions of the system of scalar Maxwell equations for plane harmonic electromagnetic waves, based on the use of the recurrent procedure for calculating the characteristic matrix of a layered medium? You rush with radar blockers, not understanding its essence. And even more so, not realizing that now the Su57 is only in the form of test samples, that is, not combat, combatant vehicles. And you have already raised the fuss lol
          1. Victoria-V
            Victoria-V 10 September 2019 21: 55
            -1
            We got it already. I am an engineer. Here's what I do: https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/prochnost-lopatki-kompressora-aviatsionnogo-dvigatelya-pri-zamene-titanovogo-splava-na-kompozitsionnyy-material
            1. Constructor68
              Constructor68 10 September 2019 23: 44
              -3
              I am an engineer

              Yes, even a plumber. How sideways is it (even if you assume that you are the one / what you are called) a material scientist or an engine engineer for radiophysics?
              By the way, what do the Su57 blades give you rest?
    2. Constructor68
      Constructor68 9 September 2019 16: 09
      -4
      Yeah. When two years ago I wrote that there are no engines and there is no stealth, what titles did the local "patriotic community" award me with.

      Apparently you have not wised up over these two years, just repeat the same nonsense
      1. Voyager
        Voyager 9 September 2019 16: 58
        0
        And they don’t fix it. Neither for 2, nor for 20. So they will be all-crawler.
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 9 September 2019 07: 55
    +6
    Why are the comments so negative? The plane "began" in the "fat zero" ... With the appropriate organization and "razuglyaevo" in terms of costs. The situation has changed. However, the plane was completed. It flies, and how. The topic of invisibility in Russia has always been advanced and deeply studied. Not to the detriment of aerodynamics.
    The engine of the new stage is doing with might and main. And it will be expensive to make it a small series.
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 9 September 2019 08: 20
    +4
    The Chinese have already received the technology of new Russian engines in the face of AL-41F1C: together with a batch of 24 Su-35C fighters. AL-41F1C engines and installed on the Su-57 AL-41F1

    The Chinese did not get the technology, but the turbojet itself ... earlier they received Al31 ... they also buy civilian Boeings and Airbases with modern turbojets. But all this does not mean that China received Al31 / 41 TECHNOLOGY. They sold Su30 technology, except for AL31 turbojet engines.
    1. PilotS37
      PilotS37 9 September 2019 16: 10
      0
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Su30 technology sold to them

      Well, Su-30, and Su-27K!
      Su-30 was created under the Indians.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 9 September 2019 19: 12
        0
        But how, then do the Chinas make a pair?
      2. The comment was deleted.
  8. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 9 September 2019 08: 30
    0
    and with SU57 as a platform (weapons, engines, avionics, approaches to service and readiness for use) and with its future everything is in order ... it took place ... it is needed ... and gave a backlog to both the series and the technology and even to the 6 generation ... and even for export, please (for modernization and maintenance then to us for long odes) ... for there is already more for ourselves ...
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 9 September 2019 08: 53
      +5
      With all this, I would like to commercialize the project .. this will allow you to release not 100-200 Su-57, but 500-1000. And all this is working hands and loading of production with high-tech products. For example, Su27 / 30 / 35 - the most massive heavy fighter.
    2. kytx
      kytx 9 September 2019 12: 43
      0
      With the 6 generation, everything is very muddy
      the Americans only decided on the requirements for the 6 generation, and then, apart from the optional piloting and huge altitude, it’s really not clear
      IMHO all this division into a generation of pure water window dressing
  9. rocket757
    rocket757 9 September 2019 09: 40
    +1
    Always wrote what needs to be done BETTER! Then everything will go in a bunch!
  10. DimanC
    DimanC 9 September 2019 12: 00
    +3
    If the product was chosen exactly "by the face". In fact, for countries that do not independently produce similar military equipment, the choice of this or that product is a choice of strategic cooperation, consider who to be friends with ...
  11. DimanC
    DimanC 9 September 2019 12: 03
    +4
    Here we got to the bottom of the "second stage engine". No, there is no fifth generation aircraft. And what, American engines - just so super-duper, or what? Nobody is happy with them ...
  12. ares1988
    ares1988 9 September 2019 12: 43
    -3
    It is believed that the Chinese about the SU-57 is not the best opinion:
    http://avia.pro/news/kitay-su-57e-okazalsya-voobshche-nikomu-ne-nuzhen?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=mobile&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fyandex.ru%2Fnews
    As far as they are right - I can not judge.
    1. Voyager
      Voyager 9 September 2019 16: 57
      0
      And what did the Chinese achieve to even discuss our plane?
      1. ares1988
        ares1988 9 September 2019 17: 41
        0
        The J-20 was put into production before us. J-31 on a hike (our analog is still at the "engine and a half" stage).
        1. Voyager
          Voyager 9 September 2019 17: 49
          +3
          And what is J-20? This is the layout we borrowed from the 1.44 MiG with modern stealth solutions. Engines are designed on the basis of our AL-31-F, which are already somewhat outdated. Because they buy engines from us. What is inside and how it works: is unknown. What about weapons: it’s not clear. What about avionics: not clear. In a word, a dark horse.

          There is even less information about J-31, except that it is also arranged in the image of F-35.

          The Chinese sought to become the second in the race for stealth fighters, creating such an abnormally short time. How this will affect its capabilities, quality and quantity of childhood diseases is a big question.
          1. ares1988
            ares1988 9 September 2019 19: 02
            -2
            They said everything right. Well, then what? They have a serial fighter of the 5th generation, one more will soon be. Yes, they ripped off something (and the PAK FA was not accused of this?). Yes, the characteristics are classified (as if they are in the public domain on the SU-57). But this does not change the essence: today the Chinese are one of the leaders in this matter. I'm not talking about who is better there: J-20 or SU-57. But talking about "what are these Chinese there?" - stupid. Not Mexico.
            1. Voyager
              Voyager 9 September 2019 19: 06
              +1
              Quote: ares1988
              They have a serial fighter of the 5 generation, one more will be soon.

              so that’s the question, is it 5?

              Ok, rephrase the message. Anyone can have a nice sweetie if they have money. But China does not have many years of experience in fighter aviation, and in some key factors (engines) they are critically dependent on us. Their aircraft have not yet had time to establish themselves in any way. In addition, China is now actively scolding our weapons on all fronts in the light of increasing competition in exports. This is also important.
          2. Pavel57
            Pavel57 9 September 2019 20: 43
            0
            All Chinese weapons are known. 1.44 and J-20 have one thing in common - they are made according to the "weft" scheme.
  13. Tuzik
    Tuzik 9 September 2019 12: 47
    0
    Ukraine sell?
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 9 September 2019 13: 06
      -1
      Sell ​​the current Ukraine and also give loans.)))
      1. Tuzik
        Tuzik 9 September 2019 14: 09
        +1
        Interest-free is desirable)
  14. Pavel57
    Pavel57 9 September 2019 13: 09
    0
    It is good that the Hindus left the project, now they can sell them without the transfer of technology.
  15. Radikal
    Radikal 9 September 2019 13: 18
    -5
    Product face. Who will buy the fifth generation Russian fighter?
    Like - who would "sell"? lol
  16. pavelty
    pavelty 9 September 2019 14: 01
    0
    What are all these fantasies about? This aircraft is not in the series, it is not in service, it is not in the guise of exporting? funny two or three years ...
    1. Pavel57
      Pavel57 9 September 2019 14: 17
      +1
      It is an art to sell what is not.
    2. Voyager
      Voyager 9 September 2019 20: 21
      +1
      When will the first production ones go on combat duty will you cry?
  17. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 9 September 2019 15: 02
    +4
    It would be necessary, for starters, to form at least one squadron in the VKS.
    This will make a good impression on customers.
    1. Constructor68
      Constructor68 9 September 2019 16: 13
      -3
      It would be necessary, for starters, to form at least one squadron in the VKS.
      This will make a good impression on customers.

      How many squadrons were formed in the US Air Force at the time of the start of sales under the F35 program? belay
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 9 September 2019 16: 52
        0
        One certainly was.
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 9 September 2019 20: 49
          -3
          Come on. Participation in the program was determined long before the start of production.
  18. clidon
    clidon 9 September 2019 16: 58
    0
    China, India, Belarus ... are there any other real customers?
    1. marat2016
      marat2016 9 September 2019 17: 35
      0
      Suppose if they are brought to a combat-ready state, then the list in my opinion is as follows: India, China, Algeria, Iran, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Vietnam. Less likely: Peru, Iraq, Myanmar, Venezuela, Ethiopia.
      1. Pavel57
        Pavel57 9 September 2019 20: 40
        0
        For this list, the 5 generation fighter in the MiG-29 dimension is requested.
        1. marat2016
          marat2016 10 September 2019 20: 53
          0
          But it is not. Although literally every year MiG promises to roll it out.
    2. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 9 September 2019 17: 40
      0
      Azerbaijan is a real candidate (with real money). But we need to talk about the painful ones (Karabakh), take steps to solve it, and voila, the order for 2 squadrons is ready.
  19. ZAV69
    ZAV69 9 September 2019 19: 51
    0
    Quote: Beringovsky
    In general, everything is clear with Su57. There are no engines; a country that has risen from its knees with the help of Putin is not capable of engines

    May country into engines. The tests are on.
    Here is one of the links https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3202227.html. There is a photo there.
    And the fact that you have not been informed about the progress of the tests .. this is not good. Warm them for it
  20. E.S.
    E.S. 10 September 2019 02: 04
    +1
    Quote: Beringovsky
    Radar absorbing coating is not applied to the nozzle.

    what does the nozzle have to do with it? And here it is applied?

    So why is he not there?
    They use a special form of "teeth", which can be seen on Product 30

    so there is none yet crying
    In addition, the sticking out non-stealth nozzle at the same F-35 for some reason does not bother you. Why?

    let it confuse the pilots of the f35. But in case of which we will have to deal with F22, and there everything is in order with that.
    And don’t talk. They shine everywhere.

    Well, yes, only in different ways wink one light bulb per kilometer is visible, and the other, and from a hundred meters barely visible. Given the very strong superiority of amers in electronics in general and sensors in particular, this is of great importance. Whoever sees first has that advantage.
    The adversary will not go sideways, because it will be detected by lateral AFAR radars,

    turning them on will lose all "invisibility". Besides, at what distance can these puny auxiliary radars be able to spot the enemy?

    Given the strong superiority of amers in electronics and sensors, you can dislocate a Mosk, wondering why there are no OLSs on the F-22, why map mapping on the F-22 appeared 20 years after being adopted, why their radar systems have less power, but higher receiver noise, worse resolution and smaller scan angle.
  21. E.S.
    E.S. 10 September 2019 02: 12
    0
    The turbine blades visible from the front only indicate that the turbine blades are visible in the optical range. But in the optical range in any aircraft a lot is visible.
    And if the blades are not visible - then they are not visible only in the optical range.
    And if you take, for example, a bent waveguide, you cannot see anything through it. However, the magnetron at the end of the waveguide perfectly sees through the horn at the other end of the waveguide the entire mirror of the reflector. :-)
    What am I talking about? I mean that there is an obvious simple and incorrect explanation for everything
  22. Baron wrangel
    Baron wrangel 14 November 2019 12: 58
    +1
    Nice plane. You will not say anything. According to insider information, the lineup of potential buyers has already been lined up for the purchase of the Su-57. While orders and quantity are considered, the final cost of the export option is determined. We will soon find out the first customer :)