Military Review

Pensions also love the account

160

How much is the president’s word


Different types of funded schemes have always been offered to pensioners, not only future ones, but also current ones. Even Stalin's bonds are best regarded in this context. Moreover, they were calculated on them, albeit very late, but honestly, and the increase then went to very decent pensions.


Is it worth recalling that even the supposedly “miserable” 12 or 24 of the Soviet ruble of the collective farm pension were quite a good help for people with their own home, plot, garden and livestock. And 132 ruble of city pension, which could be received by almost any employee of a research institute or state institution closer to stagnation, did allow pensioners to regularly help both children and grandchildren.

Pensions also love the account


At the same time, it never occurred to anyone to seriously divide pensioners into working and unemployed - such discrimination, or, if you like, segregation concerned only the top management. Citizens of the USSR had the opportunity to calculate their own pension a few years before they go on it. And to make some efforts, so that by the 55 or 60 years not to remain in the loser. Moreover, the management of enterprises, as a rule, was only encouraged.

After several tens of millions of Russians have frankly thrown “five years ahead,” one has to look for some decent schemes in order to give the consequences of the reform a decent look. And at the same time, it’s not so much to pull out those who are already retired from poverty as to try to prevent social protest from those who have yet to fall into this abyss of poverty.

Today, few people worry that Pension Funds are not generally obliged to report for what happened with accumulative deductions starting from 2002 of the year, that is, in fact, be responsible for past sins. But now, starting to work out some schemes with additional savings, the authorities generally would not hurt to disclose the report of not only state but also non-state pension funds.

And the point here is not that the country should know its heroes. More importantly, people should have a clear idea of ​​what awaits them. If they have stolen, let them plant and confiscate, and let them seek means to somehow compensate for the stolen goods. In the end, the financial situation in Russia is now not so bad as to save on retirees so brazenly. People, after all, are not matches.

From scratch?


In any case, the current pension system has to be taken for granted. And this reality is already, by all indications, almost impossible to fix. But to supplement - it’s quite why the president was so unexpectedly and suggested that every working Russian pay 6 more percent of his salary at the expense of the future “old age allowance”.

Everything was very beautifully called - "individual pension capital." Only one thing was embarrassing - from the fact that every citizen earns legally, of course, in Russia, and so is already removed in the form of taxes and various deductions 44 pennies from each ruble.


Remove another six cents - it turns fifty dollars, that is half earned. And if the people earned from us, as in Europe, then let it be at least 55 kopecks, just the German level. But is it worth recalling how things are with pensions and social programs in Germany. And how are they with us.

In principle, even these 6 percent - not at all as small as it might seem to someone. At current levels of retirement age, most Russians will have a seniority of 40 years or more when they retire. And this means that only these 6-percent deductions allow a citizen to receive his former salary in the 100-percentage amount for almost two and a half years.

Well, the fact that after so many years of tireless work to receive an additional payment for retirement at half the salary, as you can easily calculate, five years will remain. And this is only based on six presidential percent. What well-fed old age should, both by definition and by calculation, be ensured by deductions from wage funds already existing in Russia with their level in 28 percent? So he is tempted to ask: "Where is the money, Zin?"



The situation was stalemate before the pension reform, so it remains stalemate. As we see, the presidential idea with individual deductions is already beginning to be let go on the brakes, saying that it is impossible to drive everyone together into “pension happiness”. But at the same time they promise some cardinal and, of course, positive changes in the coming days.

And let “individually capital”, even pension, not be so in Russia. And let the new funded system be called in some other way, the main thing is that people believe in it. But this is hard to believe. Although, according to Deputy Finance Minister Alexei Moiseev, the draft law on the new pension savings system was developed on the basis of the bill on the IPC, that is, the president’s initial idea has not been forgotten.

With one small amendment, it is already known for certain that it was decided to abandon the idea of ​​making everyone happy at once, and not to take six percent from refuseniks only. Once they wanted to launch a funded system right after raising the retirement age. It didn’t work right away, but we will remember that the increase is only just beginning, and future pensioners will have years ahead.

Recall that at first the officials really wanted to sign on to the IPC of all Russians at once, which the head of state also made a reservation about. At the same time, in order to become a refuser, that is, not to participate in the system, the future pensioner was doomed to go through all the circles of the bureaucratic hell. It seems that it was enough just a statement to the employer, but in practice, everything would surely have resulted in a series of statements and confirmations.



As a result, everyone began to disown the idea of ​​such “universal happiness”. Without recalling this, where did the cumulative deductions of those 40 millions of Russians who were born after the 1967 of the year go and regularly make accumulative contributions practically all the time that they worked.

But the whole point is that, firstly, people donated their money not by themselves, but through intermediaries - employers.

Secondly, they were deducted not from the amounts that were actually received, but from those that the accounting department accrued to them. That is, in most cases, much less than a solid share of real income.

And, finally, thirdly, they were deducted to pension funds, and not American, to banks, where there are serious guarantees of safety and a deposit insurance system is in place. In addition, banks would run into this money, albeit small, but interest. And by the way, any American can throw up to 20 thousands of dollars into his retirement account without paying any tax, even income tax.

It is clear that the social block of the government was the most opposed to the general and conditionally equal for all deductions, after which President Putin also announced his strict order - the system should be voluntary. However, financiers didn’t like it at once - then all the bureaucracy and difficulties would fall on their shoulders.

What will happen in September is difficult to predict, but so far only one is known from real pension increases - about two thousand for every unemployed pensioner in Moscow. As they say in such cases, and thanks for that.
Author:
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  1. 210ox
    210ox 30 August 2019 06: 19
    +28
    The funded system operates around the world is a given. Another thing, like ours, is with our inflation. I do not think that thirty-year-olds will carry their money with joy to the bank. In the minds, one must live now and today. For tomorrow with a high degree of probability they rob.
    1. atalef
      atalef 30 August 2019 06: 32
      +45
      Quote: 210ox
      . Another thing is ours, with our inflation

      inflation is of course a problem, but pension funds invest this money all over the world and piano inflation doesn’t play much - competent financial package management plays a role.
      A much larger role is played by the reliability of pension funds, or rather by the companies managing them, and state policy.
      Today, the biggest problem is precisely the state’s policy i.e. - it just has already zeroed your flakes more than once.
      Who after that will believe.
      Quote: 210ox
      In the minds, one must live now and today.

      That’s the problem: when you know that the state is the first thief, then people don’t save pensions, they get a salary according to the gray scheme, they don’t pay taxes, and alligators take their grandmother over the hill.
      The result - there is no money, they raise the retirement age - and all because of what?
      They steal and lie - and first of all the state itself
      1. 210ox
        210ox 30 August 2019 06: 34
        +22
        Here I completely agree with you. There is no faith in the state, unfortunately. Yes, and even more so to a private trader.
        1. Aerodrome
          Aerodrome 30 August 2019 07: 25
          +40
          Quote: 210ox
          Here I completely agree with you. There is no faith in the state, unfortunately. Yes, and even more so to a private trader.

          1. Roman070280
            Roman070280 30 August 2019 15: 44
            +8
            Do you know where this thousandth increase came from ??
            Do you think the state "added" it ?? Not at all .. This thousand in the form of a tax from his salary was paid by another pensioner, who raised the bar for retirement, and who eventually had to go to work .. True, even with a salary of 15 thousand, he pays the state an income minimum of 2 thousand .. Not to mention about the deductions of the employer himself .. But the state takes all this silently for itself .. And then "generously" adds a whole thousand to another pensioner ..

            The situation was stalemate before the pension reform, so it remains stalemate.

            It is foolish to hope for a change ..
            If everything was aimed at squeezing money out of the people (and this is exactly what happened when people were deprived of a million rubles for these 5 years), then .. only a fool can wait, as if in the end he will get more ..

            When in the passage the gopniks take their wallet away ... you will not get richer from this passage any more than when you went down to it ....
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 30 August 2019 08: 00
        +7
        Quote: atalef
        inflation is of course a problem

        Inflation and capitalism are twin brothers, which does not allow a simple worker to accumulate enough money so that he does not work until the end of his life. Squirrels must spin the sutra wheel until evening and from evening to morning, preferably without days off and breaks. Such is the essence of capitalism, but under Stalin it was not salaries and pensions that were raised, but prices that decreased, so the people's well-being grew. With the increase of pensions and salaries, the welfare of the people worsens.
        1. Pedrodepackes
          Pedrodepackes 30 August 2019 11: 44
          -14
          Quote: Boris55
          but under Stalin it was not salaries and pensions that were raised, but prices that were reduced

          prices reduced ??
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 30 August 2019 12: 32
            +19
            Quote: Pedrodepackes
            prices reduced ??

            Yes, annually. If desired, there is enough information on the Internet.


            Labor productivity is growing (new technologies, machines, etc.). The number of products is increasing - a surplus product. You can print money on it, or you can lower prices. Stalin took the second path for which they hate him ...
            1. Pedrodepackes
              Pedrodepackes 30 August 2019 13: 33
              -15
              Quote: Boris55
              If desired, there is enough information on the Internet.

              Yes indeed:
              Name of products and goods Prices in Stalin rubles
              1947 year 1953 year
              White bread 5 rub. 50 kopecks 3 rub 1,8 times
              Black bread 3 rub. 1 rub 3 times
              Meat (beef) З0 rub. 12 rub 50 kopecks 2,4 times
              Butter 64 rub. 27 rub. 80 kopecks. 2,3 times
              Refined sugar 15 rub. 9 rub 40 kopecks 1,6 times
              Only here is the trick, before the war, these same products cost in rubles:
              white bread - 1,70
              rye bread - 0,85
              meat for cooking - from 6 to 7
              butter - 16
              sugar -4,70
              Or maybe this was not a decrease, but a reduction to pre-war prices, which the state lifted several times. Here, they reduced it, but it didn’t. And why did they hate Stalin so much?
              Quote: Boris55
              Labor productivity is growing (new technologies, machines, etc.)
              Performance, you say ...
              heh!
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 31 August 2019 07: 29
                +5
                Quote: Pedrodepackes
                Performance, you say ... heh!

                The peasant horse was replaced by an iron horse and he could free about a dozen farmers while maintaining their overall productivity.
                1. Pedrodepackes
                  Pedrodepackes 31 August 2019 07: 32
                  -5
                  Quote: Boris55
                  The peasant horse was replaced by an iron horse

                  Yes, he kind of came back in the 30s
                  Quote: Boris55
                  free up a dozen farmers while maintaining their overall productivity.

                  and where to put the "liberated farmers"?
                  In general, I'm more about the so-called. "price cuts" wrote.
                  Judging by the large number of minuses and the lack of intelligible refutations and among the witnesses of the second coming of communism, the template break occurred, another myth collapsed laughing
                2. ser56
                  ser56 3 September 2019 14: 12
                  0
                  Quote: Boris55
                  maintaining their overall performance.

                  However, the USSR was never able to feed its population - they were starving, they were buying grain and other things abroad ... request
                  1. goose
                    goose 4 September 2019 14: 44
                    0
                    Quote: ser56
                    However, the USSR was never able to feed its population

                    Because everyone plowed on their own population. 40% of the final profit of the RSFSR was transferred to the fund for assistance to the national republics. And since the RFSFR was not such a republic, nothing came back.
              2. ser56
                ser56 3 September 2019 14: 11
                0
                Quote: Pedrodepackes
                Name of products and goods Prices in Stalin rubles

                in the amount of RFP at this time is possible? feel
                "In 1950, the average salary received was 601 rubles. In 1955, the salary in the national economy as a whole was 711 rubles, in industry - 807 rubles, in construction - 742 rubles. In agriculture, 458 rubles were received, railway workers were paid 768 rubles, teachers and teachers - 742 rubles. "
                I think to count how people lived is not difficult .... poor ... request
              3. MKPU-115
                MKPU-115 19 September 2019 17: 07
                -1
                Since 1991, PRICES ONLY TURN UP
        2. atalef
          atalef 30 August 2019 14: 12
          +9
          Quote: Boris55
          Inflation and capitalism are twin brothers, preventing a simple worker from accumulating enough money so that he does not work until the end of his life

          here I look at Western pensioners, as well as at ours - well, I just want to cry no matter how bad they live. crying
          My mother, having worked in Israel for 25 years, calmly 2 dy goes abroad a year and, of course, to no Bulgaria and usually for 2 weeks.
        3. atalef
          atalef 30 August 2019 14: 16
          +1
          Quote: Boris55
          This is the essence of capitalism.

          But I didn’t observe Cuban and North Korean pensioners (and Soviet ones at that time) as they were giggling and traveling.
          Everything was like Swedes, Koreans with Yap, states - probably it was not tourists, but refugees laughing
          Quote: Boris55
          but under Stalin it was not salaries and pensions that were raised, but prices that decreased, so the welfare of the people grew

          Yes Yes Yes --
          tell tales to grandchildren.
          We lived at that time.
          Quote: Boris55
          With the increase of pensions and salaries, the welfare of the people worsens.

          Seriously ? belay
          somehow did not notice. request
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 31 August 2019 07: 32
            +7
            Quote: atalef
            not watched as shiky and traveling.

            Money must be spent where it is earned, and not lead them to potential enemies.

            Quote: atalef
            tell tales to grandchildren We lived at this time.

            You were not alone at that time.

            Quote: atalef
            Seriously ?

            Yes.
      3. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 August 2019 11: 28
        -14
        Quote: atalef
        people receive salaries in the gray scheme, do not pay taxes

        those. Steal. But of course, someone else is to blame.

        But it’s not a matter of distrust of the state: life passes exactly TODAY, today we must take it to the maximum. This is the mentality.
        And under the Union, they would have done so, but there was no possibility.

        And tomorrow .... Tomorrow will be tomorrow, then we’ll think ..
        1. atalef
          atalef 30 August 2019 14: 20
          +7
          Quote: Olgovich
          those. Steal. But of course, someone else is to blame.

          the state of course, or rather the lack of faith in it
          Quote: Olgovich
          But it’s not a matter of distrust of the state: life passes exactly TODAY, today we must take it to the maximum.

          In honor of what?
          I’ll say the budget pension will be, but the wife has been paying the pension fund for 25 years, she’s a third, 2 \ 3 enterprise.
          Each year he receives a report on how much money has accumulated, what interest has flowed, the day of retirement.
          Everything is transparent and clear.
          Quote: Olgovich
          And tomorrow .... Tomorrow will be tomorrow, then we’ll think ..

          Why think that?
          After 15 years of retirement, her size is already known (well, plus the annual price increase). It's just
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 30 August 2019 14: 56
            -6
            Quote: atalef
            the state of course, or rather the lack of faith in it

            Yeah, that's why they steal: what a miraculous excuse convenient for thieves! good
            Quote: atalef
            In honor of what?

            Once again: in honor of TODAY.
            What will happen tomorrow: which brick will be planned and so forth, nobody knows.
            In the West, people, for that matter, are different, yes.
            But in the West I would prefer to take everything -TODAY.
            ...
            Quote: atalef
            Why think that?
            After 15 years of retirement, her size is already known (well, plus the annual price increase). It's just

            Here is TOMORROW - and we will think.
          2. 30143
            30143 2 September 2019 06: 41
            0
            I think that you yourself have found where to invest the money. We would buy a house on the coast and rent it to tourists. There is income and your property. And PF is a dark and incomprehensible structure, at least in our countries. And the same clever people are sitting who see huge grandmothers and think that if they take them offshore, the population will not notice ... And if you agree with Bos, you can postpone the payment term, then inflation will profit ... the people will die! You can arrange a war ... to earn money for it and not give it back to the defenders. You can say that children are kept under 18 years old. And if the child is 17. Then the benefit is obvious.
        2. ser56
          ser56 3 September 2019 14: 14
          0
          Quote: Olgovich
          those. Steal. But of course, someone else is to blame.

          1) and who created such a system?
          2) And how does the state behave? Let me remind you - this is the 4th pension reform in 20 years ... request But there are no guilty ...
      4. VALERIK_097
        VALERIK_097 30 August 2019 22: 18
        +2
        NPF "Future", 2 years-minus 45 thousand, sadly, they didn't even notify
    2. WILL
      WILL 30 August 2019 06: 33
      +4
      Best Retirement Savings - Smart, Healthy, Educated Kids !!! wink
    3. Gardamir
      Gardamir 30 August 2019 07: 28
      +14
      The accumulation system operates worldwide -
      Have you read the article? The Soviet pension system, here's a forgotten reality.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 August 2019 08: 37
        +15
        Quote: Gardamir
        The accumulation system operates worldwide -
        Have you read the article? The Soviet pension system, here's a forgotten reality.

        If this forgotten reality is not remembered, then we will simply die out very quickly. What is the real genocide. 40% of citizens after 50 years are unemployed and every year this percentage will increase ..
        1. Victor N
          Victor N 30 August 2019 11: 29
          -30
          Have you come up with these 40%? I know that many work after 60 and after 65. Do not explain the reason why some after 40 are unemployed? I know several of them; they have reasons for drunkenness and laziness. Yes, still stupid. Perhaps there are other reasons ....
          1. Pedrodepackes
            Pedrodepackes 30 August 2019 11: 49
            +15
            Quote: Victor N
            I know that many work after 60 and after 65.

            yeah, like that, they’re happy to run to work, yeah. My colleague, 62 years old, also goes to work, well, sedentary, because sore tortured. He would be glad not to go, after all, there is already a military pension, too, but children need help. In your opinion, a person who has gone on a well-deserved rest (as we used to call a pension in due time) is a lazy and stupid drunkard?
            Quote: Victor N
            them causes drunkenness and laziness. Yes, still stupid.

            Are you edros?
            1. 30143
              30143 2 September 2019 06: 44
              0
              And that children themselves cannot provide for themselves? Then what is their education? Or is it easier ... They don’t take it, they pay little ...
              1. Pedrodepackes
                Pedrodepackes 2 September 2019 07: 08
                0
                Quote: 30143
                And that children themselves cannot provide for themselves?

                with difficulty, because with the aim of further career growth, her daughter works in Moscow, the apartment is rented, plus a sick wife and mother-in-law.
                Quote: 30143
                Then what is their education?

                higher education
                Quote: 30143
                They don’t take it, they pay little ...

                I don’t understand what it is about?
                1. 30143
                  30143 2 September 2019 20: 15
                  0
                  This, sometimes, one has to hear such an excuse.
                  But, apparently, in this case the situation is sad ... It remains to wish patience.
        2. Campanella
          Campanella 2 September 2019 20: 52
          +1
          How do you remember her? The pension under the USSR was in solidarity, and now billionaires sitting on the grain industries will not give anything back, they will only pay extra to their employees. That's it. So Russia is a pension poverty.
      2. 210ox
        210ox 30 August 2019 09: 46
        +4
        Under the Soviet system, citizens carried money to banks and funds, where they consistently deceived them? You have a gap in the template. What is the article about? The Soviet system certainly allowed saving, the question is that we want to do this almost without fail. under these conditions, this will only lead to a loss. Interestingly, how many of these funds paid pensioners money in Russia?
        1. My_log_in
          My_log_in 30 August 2019 11: 38
          +14
          I here on specialized sites spoke with an answer to about the same question "Why do we need NPFs?" As an example, he cited the story of a person close to me. Wiped it everywhere, didn't even leave a trace wink
          I'll try here, because the question seems to be close on the topic.
          This personal, close to me, joined the NPF in 1994 (!!!) and put it off little by little, but regularly. I was very worried about mergers-mergers-renaming and other troubles with this NPF, but continued to postpone. By 2017, a pleasant figure of a million with a good tail was shining in the personal account on the account. At one unimportant moment, when this NPF was once again absorbed-renamed, he decided to stop these toys and take the money. So, upon returning, the NPF withheld not only 13% of personal income tax from the amount of the actual contributions, but also all savings accrued over a little over 20 years. The returned amount turned out to be less than the amount actually deposited and more than 2 times less than the one that so invitingly glowed in the personal account. The complaint to the supervisory authorities was returned with the answer "No violations, everything was done according to the current rules."
          Here is the answer to the question "Why do we need NPFs?" hi
          1. Fan-fan
            Fan-fan 30 August 2019 20: 59
            +7
            It is dangerous to gamble with the state; it (the state) will always find a way to deceive the people.
          2. Campanella
            Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 01
            +2
            Not surprisingly, I would say in the spirit of the modern attitude of the authorities to the people. Yeltsin's formula "everyone survives as best he can" lives and flourishes under Putin.
            This state is not for people it is obvious. For officials, yes, for billionaires, and people are consumables. In general, capitalism is common.
        2. atalef
          atalef 30 August 2019 14: 25
          +2
          Quote: 210ox
          An article about what? The Soviet system certainly allowed saving

          oh well don't drive the demon
          You have not heard about monetary reforms
          1922-1924, 1947, 1961 and 1991 years?
          every 20 years.
          Every new generation has been robbed.
          1. Campanella
            Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 10
            0
            22-24 years could still not include the period of the formation of the USSR here without money reform in any way. 47 is also understandable, an exit from the war.
      3. Sotskiy
        Sotskiy 30 August 2019 10: 14
        +9
        Quote: Gardamir
        The Soviet pension system, here's a forgotten reality.

        This is yes. But without a planned economy and state ownership of resources, strategic directions of industry, a return to the Soviet pension system is impossible, which is what Chubais and the state-owned company wanted, shouting about "a nail in the coffin of communism."
    4. Vend
      Vend 30 August 2019 09: 39
      -1
      And 132 ruble of city pension, which could be received by almost any employee of a research institute or state institution closer to stagnation,
      Well, don’t. This amount was far from accessible to everyone, because it was a ceiling for the average citizen. And under Stalin, the pension was generally lower than the student scholarship. So pensions at all times were low and it was not so easy to live on them.
      Under modern reform, I will retire on 4 a year later, I did not quite understand its meaning, although I honestly tried to figure it out. However, I am not an economist.
      1. Was mammoth
        Was mammoth 30 August 2019 11: 00
        +10
        Quote: Wend
        Under modern reform, I will retire on 4 a year later, I did not quite understand its meaning, although I honestly tried to figure it out. However, I am not an economist.

        Easy to understand.
        Quote: Silvestr
        I was added 214 rubles and now it is 16 thousand. Work experience 36 years. So thanks to both M and Co., and GDP.

        Almost the same amount was added to me. This is already more than whole 2% what went from me to the pension fund for the same month. Forced working pensioner.
        Do I need to be an economist to calculate this? wink
        Public services are widely advertised. Say, everything can be learned about retirement. I went in. Empty about how pension is accrued.
        The Criminal Code contains articles for robbery, fraud and theft. If you clothe the "pension reform" and its continuation in the form of a law, then this can be called concern for the people.
        Quote: WIKI
        "One of our tasks here in Russia is to never forget what the meaning of the functioning and existence of any government is - is to create a stable, normal, safe and predictable life for people, only with a forecast for improvement," - said Putin
        wink
      2. shoemaker
        shoemaker 30 August 2019 14: 05
        +1
        It's simple, it's arithmetic. Women born in 1967 were to retire in 2022. And this is before the presidential election. Non-state pension funds would have to pay them the funded part of the pension. To date, this money has been partially spent on the operating activities of non-state pension funds, partially frozen and not replenished, but received by the RF PF. For several consecutive years, many NPFs show zero or negative returns. Until recently, the NPF did not have a fund similar to the DIA fund for banks. Accordingly, in 2022 there would be a greater likelihood of a crisis in the pension system, and this is before the presidential election. What’s the way out ... That's right, to carry out pension reform immediately after the elections in 2018, and this will gain time by postponing the collapse of the NPF and PF of the Russian Federation.
        1. Vasiliev Yu
          Vasiliev Yu 31 August 2019 04: 55
          +3
          You forgot to mention the same Mints, who simply stole money from APFs and bought hotels and real estate in the UK for them. And how many such Mints were there? Every year, NPF money was stolen by billions and our GDP didn’t give a shit about it until almost all pension money was gone. And who is sitting behind it?
          Visit not only this site, but also Telegram, you will learn a lot of interesting things that are not printed here either. If interested, I can also tell you the channels, the main one is about the theft of our bureaucrats, rulers and various rats 'Cello Case', but there is a lot of good and interesting things.
      3. Campanella
        Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 13
        0
        As far as I remember, less than 80 in the Brezhnev years there was no pension.
    5. Wolverine
      Wolverine 30 August 2019 09: 45
      +5
      Quote: 210ox
      The funded system operates around the world is a given. Another thing, like ours, is with our inflation. I do not think that thirty-year-olds will carry their money with joy to the bank. In the minds, one must live now and today. For tomorrow with a high degree of probability they rob.


      It is in the youth’s minds to find a job, pay off mortgages and loans, feed the child today ....
    6. Svarog
      Svarog 30 August 2019 10: 06
      +5
      Quote: 210ox
      Accumulative system operates around the world is a given

      The funded system is not difficult to organize, it is difficult to accumulate, with such income.
      1. Campanella
        Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 14
        0
        And with such inflation.
  2. Vadim T.
    Vadim T. 30 August 2019 06: 20
    +44
    One thing is clear: the state, represented by the current government, is discarding its social obligations. Remember the famous "the state owes you nothing" - this is the real slogan of the authorities. As they say, the masks have been torn off. This, guys, is not even capitalism, this is something more terrible. After all, even in bourgeois Europe there are good social benefits for emigrants, allowing them not to work at all. And there is nothing to say about citizens with seniority. They have enough not only for life, but also for rest, study, travel. What do we have? Even those small savings that people made were stolen. And, as always, there are no guilty ones ...
    1. Obi-Wan Kenobi
      Obi-Wan Kenobi 30 August 2019 06: 33
      +24
      Totally agree with you!!! +++++++++++
      "the state owes you nothing"
      - This is the credo of our government, led by the guarantor.
      The faster we all die, the less people need to be fed. And the more money you can steal.
      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 09: 05
        +19
        St. John's wort ...
        Smart, Healthy, Educated Kids ...
        I have an apartment behind the wall. There was a quiet old officer. All his life he worked at the Research Institute, participated in the creation of radar systems, forged the shield of the Motherland. He died quietly and unnoticed. There remained an intelligent, meek old woman, now a widow, and a son, a disabled child. The son is like that - movements are constrained, speech is difficult, he cannot work. He also attends church and sings church hymns at night, likes to drink with friends at night on the children's playground. The old woman fell ill, her son fell into a rampage due to a lack of material resources - you can hear through the wall, there is such a roar! The other day the old woman was crying, the son was shouting something about his father's table, and finally the table flew out the window with a crash. And then he shouted: "Let you die!" I was trying to run to call them on the intercom, but which apartment? The numbers are so distributed that you can't figure it out ... Conscience hurts, I always intervened in such situations, but here I blundered. This guy is about forty years old.
        In the apartment opposite - the same story. A forty-year-old drug addict demands money from an old father for nonsense. Scandals - every day, for many hours, there are fights with an ambulance call - either for a battered son, or for a father with a heart attack ...
        Lost generations present their formidable account. Without giving up the country, we did not know that we were losing the future of our children, which means a prosperous old age - our own, theirs and those of many subsequent generations. And if someone is doing well, then, as they say, - God forbid! Yes, only more than those who do not and will not.
        And more and more often the thought: what have we done! We succumbed to deception, it continues, we understand this, but understanding does not give rise to action.
        1. Victor N
          Victor N 30 August 2019 11: 47
          -2
          Dear Lyudmila Yakovlevna! You're right: WE have done it. US and fix. Just do it calmly, without emotion, without haste. You can start with a reminder to those who do not pay to the Pension Fund - such a close, "honest and pleasant".
        2. Campanella
          Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 19
          0
          We had no idea what all this would lead to, but then we believed that it would become better to live ... There were naive people. Well, what to do, life is so arranged that it sways from side to side.
    2. Maverick1812
      Maverick1812 30 August 2019 08: 03
      +23
      What kind of capitalism can we talk about after the bills on the collection of moss, fallen trees, wild plants !! ?? It smacks of, ever clearer, pure feudalism! Here I see it straight ... Sherwood Forest, sheriffs, snickering priests!
      1. Campanella
        Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 20
        +1
        Yes, and does not smell! It’s just worth the scum! Take out the saints!
    3. Svarog
      Svarog 30 August 2019 08: 37
      +11
      Quote: Vadim T.
      One thing is clear: the state, represented by the current government, is discarding its social obligations. Remember the famous "the state owes you nothing" - this is the real slogan of the authorities.

      Why do we need such a state?
      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 09: 23
        +4
        How to change it, Svarog? How to change the state?
        The elders are used to consolidated actions under the leadership of party workers, the younger ones are accustomed to the discipline of the gangs of the 90s, many in cemeteries, but experience remains. The paid consolidation will drive many young people away, it frightens them away, they already understand that having joined, they won’t get anything, the pie is not about them - everyone is now smart.
        So that?
        Well, really the election? It's ridiculous!
        1. Svarog
          Svarog 30 August 2019 09: 37
          +6
          I dont know. The answer is short, but it is. Where not to throw, everywhere a wedge.
          Quote: depressant
          How to change the state?

          To begin with, the overwhelming majority of people need to understand that today's system is vicious. When 95% of the population understands this, change is inevitable. But not all changes guarantee a better life. And for this it is important that the young generation knows and remembers the socialist idea and the USSR, and the information must be true .. now Stalin is being shown to be a fanatic along with Beria, but this is a liberal lie, and young people believe. Need more truth!
          And then maybe something will change.
          1. Roman070280
            Roman070280 30 August 2019 15: 58
            +1
            To begin with, it is necessary that the vast majority of people have an understanding

            Judging by the number of minuses .. wait for the idiots of understanding, we do not soon shine ..

            When 95% of the population understands this,
            So far, alas, 50/50 ...))
            1. Svarog
              Svarog 30 August 2019 15: 59
              +5
              Quote: Roman070280
              Judging by the number of minuses .. wait for the idiots of understanding, we do not soon shine ..

              No, this is their job. They probably heard how many trolls work, but now they say they have increased funding. I haven’t been on the site for about a year, it’s very noticeable that they have increased money and staff.
              Quote: Roman070280
              When 95% of the population understands this,
              So far, alas, 50/50 ...))

              I think the ratio is in favor of the socialists. It's just that we are here for everyone, but they are organized ..
              1. Fan-fan
                Fan-fan 30 August 2019 21: 12
                +7
                And I think that there are more stupid ones than bought trolls. And then there are those who are well settled and they are great at catching "fish in troubled water". Such people also have a love for this power and for this system rushing from all their cracks, so they do not want to change anything, but live by the rule: I feel good, but the rest do not care. But most of all I am amazed by the stupid ones, who themselves ate and ate survive and beggar, and now they are left without pensions, but still stubbornly "drown" for power.
                1. Svarog
                  Svarog 30 August 2019 22: 09
                  +4
                  Quote: Fan-Fan
                  But I think that there are still more dumb ones than bought trolls.

                  Maybe you’re right .. but in this case a catastrophe awaits us, personally I don’t understand how you can’t see what is happening .. If you think .. then really the majority of the population are just stupid .. I want to believe that this is not so and it would be better, that we would be opposed by trolls .. It’s somehow easier to think that many who are opposed here are trolls than stupid ones ..
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 30 August 2019 22: 19
                    -9
                    Quote: Svarog
                    ... in this case catastrophe awaits us

                    She is waiting for you and FanFanych anyway ... because you are, as you gracefully put it there - "opposing trolls" yes

                    It’s even a pity you sometimes become crying
                    1. Svarog
                      Svarog 30 August 2019 22: 25
                      +4
                      Quote: Cat Man Null
                      It’s even a pity you sometimes become

                      I feel sorry for you kitty ... sold for cookies .. You are a bright representative of the trolls and that you are paid for the letter, I have no doubt .. I can assume that you are the son of an official or a small official .. My conclusions are that, in general, you are adequate and not stupid, but if so, then we look from the opposite laughing You see, I fed you again .. you need to tie this up .. yes I'm too sentimental ..
                      1. Cat man null
                        Cat man null 30 August 2019 22: 34
                        -6
                        Quote: Svarog
                        You are a bright representative of trolls and I don’t doubt that you are paid for the letter .. I can assume that you are the son of an official or a small official ..

                        Oh! It's talking belay

                        You say, you say ... everything you say will be used against you. Keep in mind - not "can be used", as it is in the classics, namely will yes

                        Quote: Svarog
                        I fed you again ..

                        Nah ... eat yourself, with hair ... and I don’t eat by installments laughing
                      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. fruit_cake
      fruit_cake 30 August 2019 10: 51
      +11
      Do you think that the USSR was destroyed so that you live well? all those thieves, corrupt bribe takers who came to Soviet power after Stalin really thought about you? that the people who robbed and destroyed the country in the 90s, who shot the parliament out of tanks in the 93rd and unleashed the Chechen war in the 94th, and then spent the most predatory privatization in the 95th think about you? Are you all crazy?
    5. sunzhenets
      sunzhenets 30 August 2019 11: 18
      +4
      Quote: Vadim T.
      After all, even in bourgeois Europe there are good social benefits for emigrants, allowing those to not work at all

      Ha! We have social guarantees that allow the whole republic not to work and at the same time build the 2 largest mosques in Europe - No. 1 in Shaly and No. 2 in Grozny (which was No. 1 before the construction of the Shali).
      1. Roman070280
        Roman070280 30 August 2019 15: 59
        +3
        And also a fantasy ... for a few lards ..
    6. Tomich3
      Tomich3 30 August 2019 14: 25
      +2
      This is autocracy. Autocracy (other Greek: αὐτο-κράτεια “autocracy, autocracy”; from αυτός “self” + κράτος “power”) is one of the forms of government, the basis of which is based on unlimited control of power by one person or by the council.
  3. samarin1969
    samarin1969 30 August 2019 06: 28
    +23
    The government was lucky with the people. The money will remain, but the problems themselves will go to the cemetery. As a waste they will read out "the word about IPK". wassat
    1. depressant
      depressant 30 August 2019 09: 34
      +9
      This government is lucky. Lucky for Putin. And the next one? Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov, or who will be there after him? Low salaries of the current 40-50-year-olds, who are not able to save up for the coming old age, together with a low birth rate and a clear tendency to abolish pensions will lead to the disappearance of the people in general in the future. The territory will remain, but there will be no one to protect it.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 August 2019 11: 38
        +7
        Quote: depressant
        This government is lucky. Lucky for Putin. And the next one? Ivanov, Petrov, Sidorov, or who will be there after him?

        It is necessary in the Constitution to consolidate the responsibility of the president, prime minister and members of the government for not fulfilling election promises and generally any promises given to citizens of the country. In another way, they should be responsible for a lie. When there will be demand from them, then there will be some kind of result.
        1. polar fox
          polar fox 31 August 2019 14: 32
          0
          Quote: Svarog
          It is necessary in the Constitution to fix the responsibility of the president, prime minister and members of the government for not fulfilling election promises and

          we have the 1977 Constitution ... this one, from 93 Nobody accepted ... it was a draft ... and that's it. So, the EMNIP State Archive of the Russian Federation answered.
      2. Victor N
        Victor N 30 August 2019 11: 57
        -8
        Why is it so doomed ?! Maybe it's just your personal frustration? Many acquaintances continue to enjoy life in retirement, work hard - and even in the country. Unsettled - among personally acquaintances - units. And they realize their role in this, though only sometimes ...
        1. Mcar
          Mcar 30 August 2019 13: 44
          +6
          Quote: Victor N
          Why is it so doomed ?! Maybe it's just your personal frustration?

          I didn’t find anything fresh, but in 4 years little has changed: the rich have become richer, the poor have become poorer.



          You don't have to look at the face value, it's better to look at %%. And what do we see? In a material sense, 15% are doing well. Another 20%, let's say, is passable. The remaining 2/3 from "living in poverty" to "dying out".

          You can judge by any other indicators. So, for example, 70% of citizens of the Russian Federation do not have passports. And not because they are genetically inactive, but because they don’t even have money for one trip abroad.
          1. depressant
            depressant 30 August 2019 14: 18
            +2
            Right! And yesterday a message flashed on Yandex that the Ministry of Economic Development warns of an impending decline in the incomes of Russians, which I already observe. Now one group of goods is not on store shelves, then another. Previously, everything was always, even if it was expensive. And now even shopkeepers do not have enough funds for bulk purchases so that the shelves are not empty. It happens that for two or three days, or even for a week, places are empty, the gaps are visible. My grade of ground coffee "Prince Lebo" only appeared yesterday, and after all, how long has it been! Naturally, 10 rubles more. In the "Five" the carts again began to fill sparsely. Fully loaded carts are no longer visible even on Sunday, when people are shopping for a week. The shares have become ridiculous - they will raise the price to an absurd one, and then lower it to the price of a week ago, but people remember! Here is the promotional product unsold. Groups of good and inexpensive goods have ceased to be imported altogether. I remember that not so long ago, as part of the topic on VO, they even discussed, excuse me, toilet paper. At that time, we had rolls of 10-12 rubles, which the population had forgotten for 10 years. And yesterday they showed up at 6 rubles! So they take it. The only question is what it is made of.
          2. Victor N
            Victor N 30 August 2019 16: 25
            -8
            Everyone (including the government) knows that the official income data are used in the calculation, but at the same time, tens of millions do not have official work, and many more receive part of their earnings in envelopes. Well, how can one draw conclusions from these calculations? Unless to frighten yourself and hype to unwind someone for joy.
            About passports in general is not serious.
            1. Vasiliev Yu
              Vasiliev Yu 31 August 2019 05: 12
              +2
              No words.
              Honestly, I don’t understand: you are stubborn, or you don’t understand the elementary.
              Do you understand that not all people live in large cities? There are still residents of small towns, villages, or villages. And the vast majority of the population lives there. You try to find work there, especially in towns and villages, and not for the penny, which they pay out of an excess of workers and those in need, but for a normal salary.
              1. Victor N
                Victor N 31 August 2019 09: 25
                -6
                Usually they find a solution either by changing their profession or by changing their place of residence: it is enough to understand that work will not chase you. It always has been.
                You can still sit and cry for a long time - but there will be no sense, life rules are strict.
                I know many people who entered the university after 40 and successfully completed. A change of working profession ....
                1. Vasiliev Yu
                  Vasiliev Yu 31 August 2019 17: 41
                  +3
                  Now I see, you're definitely a kremlebot stubborn.
                  Change of residence? Do you propose that all of Russia move to Moscow?
                  I also know a few people after 40 who entered the university and successfully completed. Only it was a branch of St. Petersburg University in Primorye. Tuition is paid, so they did not study, paid, and after a while they got crusts. You earn in a village, for example, to study at a university.
                  As for the profession, yes, they send them for retraining, but they send us to Vladivostok, look for housing for yourself while studying, and rented apartments are not cheap and you are not a boy, your parents will not help.
                  Well, you went to study and you tell your family and children: I went, don’t wait for money, you will need it yourself, survive yourself as you can without me. So what do you think?
      3. Campanella
        Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 30
        +1
        They do not care much, they can’t figure it out in today's ram, and you are talking about the future!
  4. sagitch
    sagitch 30 August 2019 06: 32
    +14
    Show me today at least one rosiyan (from the working class, of course) who received a funded pension.
  5. nikvic46
    nikvic46 30 August 2019 06: 43
    +16
    A little about something else. On the web, intolerance towards Soviet people (scoops) is felt. But you will go out onto the street, nothing of the kind. Even there is benevolence on the part of the young. Maybe we have such a wonderful street. The bureaucracy deftly uses modern technology to report, answer complaints. The live connection with any kind of communication has ceased to exist. I'm not talking about organizational skills power at a low level. The nice thing is TV. But ordinary people live not only this.
    1. depressant
      depressant 30 August 2019 09: 44
      +3
      No, Nikvic, it's not just yours. It’s the same in my village. Children, adolescents, youths 20-30 years old about a couple of years ago suddenly became extremely benevolent, helpful and polite towards not only the elderly, but also the elders in general. I don’t know what happened, but some kind of shift in the consciousness of the younger generations is clearly outlined. Maybe they understood something.
  6. Ross xnumx
    Ross xnumx 30 August 2019 07: 08
    +17
    How much can you write on a topic that the proteges of the oligarchs are tackling? Do you think that they will try to make the people live happily ever after? Work all his life and bend in poverty from sores - this is the credo of every person of labor. It’s for themselves that they establish benefits, pension allowances and free treatment ...
    The simplest way to equalize incomes and blur the line between rich and poor is to keep fixed bonuses of the same size ... With the current method of calculating payments and compensations, the gap between poverty and luxury will increase:
    The difference between a unit and a hundred is ninety-nine. If both numbers are increased by 100%, then the difference will be already - 198 !!!
    With our inflation, all funded parts turn to dust after 30 years. We listen to sermons on the capitalist good, but very quickly forget that:
    “Provide capital with 10% profit, and the capital agrees to any use, at 20% it becomes lively, at 50% it is positively ready to break its head, at 100% it violates all human laws, with 300% there is no crime for which it does not I would venture to go, at least under pain of the gallows. ” ©
  7. Gardamir
    Gardamir 30 August 2019 07: 24
    +15
    A four-day working week will be tied to raising the retirement age. This is a single complex for the destruction of the Russian people. Moscow already really resembles some kind of Abad. But interestingly, there is no election advertisement. gentlemen from EdRo, if you so "care" about the people, why are you all self-nominated?
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 30 August 2019 08: 41
      +3
      Quote: Gardamir
      But interestingly, there is no election advertising.

      Precisely noticed. Gentlemen, although what gentlemen they are, so push-buttons, they perfectly understand how the people treat them, therefore they are silent about the elections, and eight will slip through.

      It is a pity that we are not able to unite and nominate our candidate, and those who are offered to us will work for their interests.

      Different clans nominate their candidates, and from which protege gets the most votes, that clan will rob us first.
      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 10: 34
        +7
        Gardamir, there is an election advertisement!
        As recently as yesterday, I take out a large, dense package from the mailbox. It contains two sheets of office paper. One with the inscription "Find out the strength of your vote!", And under the inscription - an appeal to go to the polls and form a new composition of the Council of Deputies of the city district. Quote:

        His powers include determining how our budget funds will be spent, controlling their spending, electing the district’s policies, and being a bridge of trust between the authorities and residents.

        Next - the magnificent biographies of self-nominated people. Quite a lot of fathers and mothers, hard workers, hard workers. It has been emphasized many times that they were not, are not and will not be members of EP.
        Here, with saving errors:
        "I believe that the Council of Deputies is the only body that can make the government hear the people. I have no relatives in the government and commercial structures of the district."
        "I consider it my main task to become a conductor of people's thoughts to power through the Council of Deputies."
        "I will not promise anything, but call me, we will solve problems together."
        The second sheet is the application. It contains a statement of claim challenging the tariff and the standard for garbage, which are doubled. Write your address, phone number, put your signature and send us mail to the address ...

        Never do it!
        Modern methods will allow you to multiply your signature on any documents, and you will find yourself without an apartment, a car, with a bank loan of millions - in general, the full owner of all the consequences of banditry, widely cultivated by the authorities.
        A statement of claim is a typical unreadable example of a bureaucratic language.

        Yes, the times have passed when the candidate was obliged to travel around the district and meet with voters in each locality. Face to face. Talk with people, learn to understand them, find a common language with them. Entering into disputes, to grow in this process mentally and politically. Entering into debate with each other. Instead - the profanity of the elections as a result of the profanation of power - there was no presidential debate! And then quite a petty crook comes forward.
        And we - "Pension, pension!" Therefore, the pension.
        1. Campanella
          Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 34
          0
          The damned ones were completely in the sky!
      2. Pedrodepackes
        Pedrodepackes 30 August 2019 12: 00
        +2
        Quote: Boris55
        therefore, they are silent about the elections, and the eight will slip through.

        As a child, I remember always confusing my parents with an uncomfortable question, why do you vote for one person in the elections, the choice is from what? A portrait of a candidate from the "bloc of non-party and communists" was modestly hung at the polling station, and one surname was also modestly printed on the ballot. That's all the elections, nothing has changed.
    2. AU Ivanov.
      AU Ivanov. 30 August 2019 09: 57
      -16
      Less RenTV watch. This is unsafe for mental health .. To you, conspiracy theories around every corner already seem. They say it’s being treated.
      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 10: 59
        +11
        Ivanov, if you are to me ...
        Have respect for the interlocutor, object to the merits. Do not defame people whose opinions do not coincide with yours. I haven’t heard him yet. Set out!
    3. Vasiliev Yu
      Vasiliev Yu 31 August 2019 05: 20
      +2
      But interestingly, there is no election advertisement. gentlemen from EdRo, if you so "care" about the people, why are you all self-nominated?

      Again about the same:
      Everything: edro, edro, and how do the si communists, right-Russians, ldprovtsy and the rest differ from them? One scum company, only under different names.
  8. rocket757
    rocket757 30 August 2019 07: 42
    +7
    Capitalism, with all the charms that are in it, has fallen \ chosen on its own behalf!
    It’s just that we have extremely stealing capitalism + the greedy clan of officials ...... and everyone else, on whose neck they are sitting, scattered on their own and groaning, groaning in chorus, but not even in unison!
  9. wellaut
    wellaut 30 August 2019 07: 48
    +13
    The president’s tireless concern for the people!
    In the beginning, he "froze" contributions to NPFs, and recently he raised the retirement age. In fact, money and years of my life, another life were stolen from me ...
    How do I relate to this person?
    And who is he, if he steals and does not keep his word?)))
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 30 August 2019 08: 24
      -11
      Quote: wellaut
      The president’s tireless concern for the people!
      In the beginning, he "froze" contributions to NPFs, and recently he raised the retirement age.

      Do not tell me what Decree (number, date) he did all this? laughing
      A picture to help you.

      1. wellaut
        wellaut 30 August 2019 11: 01
        +8
        You still tell a fairy tale that in Russia there are independent branches of government.
      2. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 11: 22
        +11
        Boris 55, well, you and the logician!
        Let's say all this is as you are trying to present here. Especially touches in the picture "Duam" instead of "Duma". This means, if anything, the Duma members will be able to declare: "We are not guilty! This is all Duam, Duam!"
        This is the first thing. And secondly, it turns out that the president was lying, stating that there would be no increase in pensions under him, that is, in fact, assuming powers that he did not have and does not have. Well, then, “Duam” hasn't got excited about this yet? And the Constitutional Court?
        And if you are a fan of the president, why are you setting him up like that? You have to be more agile, more agile!
      3. sunzhenets
        sunzhenets 30 August 2019 11: 31
        +8
        Quote: Boris55
        Do not tell me what Decree (number, date) he did all this?

        Give an example when the president vetoed an anti-people bill.
        "Do not tell me" in this case is written through E.
        1. Fan-fan
          Fan-fan 30 August 2019 21: 32
          +7
          Yes, Boris has a love for higher power rushing from all his cracks and this love drove him crazy, asks for some decree number, a date, but why, when Putin himself said on TV, they say: "People, please treat pension robbery ". Those. Putin himself publicly supported and tried to justify this robbery, and from Bori again the fairy tale "about the white bull."
    2. Campanella
      Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 37
      0
      Who is who? Popularly elected! Here is who.
  10. Van 16
    Van 16 30 August 2019 07: 52
    +10
    In my opinion, everything is obvious, they will again rob, here the elections will be held - and ...
  11. parusnik
    parusnik 30 August 2019 07: 57
    +8
    The rescue of drowning, the work of the drowning smile Something does not work out the construction of a social state ... according to the Constitution ... Who will survive to retirement, most of the survivors will receive a penny ..
    1. New Year day
      New Year day 30 August 2019 08: 13
      +27
      Quote: parusnik
      The rescue of drowning, the work of the drowning

      and then a simple question arises - why do we need this? Pay taxes, work honestly? What for? Since the president said that everything is "on your own," then this should be done in relation to oneself.
      1. parusnik
        parusnik 30 August 2019 08: 50
        +10
        Those of you who survive will envy the dead! -Public policy ...
      2. Victor N
        Victor N 30 August 2019 12: 08
        -3
        And our ancestors who created this state were much smarter!
        1. Vasiliev Yu
          Vasiliev Yu 31 August 2019 05: 33
          +1
          And our ancestors who created this state were much smarter!

          And the current ones?
          Who decided that a miracle happened and Alkash succeeded KGB officer? Type: the thief stole, stole, grabbed, and on his deathbed decided to fix everything and put an honest and decent person at the head of the state so that this honest and decent man put things in order, took away everything stolen from rats, including everything he returned to the people again ?
          From the very beginning, he explained to the people that the collapsed USSR did not drive, to place honest and decent at the head of the state. Because the honest and decent was obliged not to give the bastard immunity and not to build an Alkash center, but the first thing to shoot this bastard and all those involved in the collapse and plunder of the country.
          1. Victor N
            Victor N 31 August 2019 09: 38
            -2
            I tried to imagine: they returned to me the "stolen" (?) Plant. AND? Will I become the master and what will I do? Will I be able to secure a job or leave?
            One must imagine the consequences of one's desires.
            The enterprises changed their owners when the former could not or did not want to manage them.
      3. Campanella
        Campanella 2 September 2019 21: 39
        0
        So it falls apart.
    2. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 30 August 2019 13: 19
      +1
      There are sayings, Alexey! DON'T WANT TO DO IT, SO AT LEAST PROMISE ---- or ---- He promised --- you can not do it.
      Quote: parusnik
      The rescue of drowning, the work of the drowning smile Something does not work out the construction of a social state ... according to the Constitution ... Who will survive to retirement, most of the survivors will receive a penny ..

      They say that earlier the republic of the RSFSR fed, or there the USSR supported African countries. And now, who is devouring all this? Invaders and others like that.
      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 15: 32
        +4
        But the truth is, we do not know anything about where the money goes from the budget.
        Here, for example, is the layout for secret articles, cited a day earlier on VO.
        2016 - 4, 59 trillion rubles, approximately $ 83 billion;
        2017 - 4, 85 trillion rubles, approximately $ 84 billion.
        They have not yet calculated for 2018.

        But the "aid" to the neighbors of the former USSR is in dollars.
        2013 - 710 million were given, 500 were forgiven.
        2014 - 880 million were given, 32 billion were forgiven
        2015 - 1,16 billion was given, 89 million were forgiven.
        2016 - 1,26 billion were given, 424,9 million were forgiven;
        2017 - 1,19 billion was given, 425 million were forgiven.

        As you can see, "help", and in fact bribery, is not such a significant part of the expenses under secret items. Or is it not a secret at all? We continue to pay tribute to our former neighbors in the common country. Only "forgiven" means confuse. The regularity of submissions and write-offs suggests a corrupt division of the write-off between the giver and the receiver. And didn't the pension money go here?

        Further. Tell me, where and what can I spell money on secret expense items? New weapons? It is unlikely that in our conditions such gigantic sums will be required. Then, maybe, for the construction of underground cities in case of war? So they have long been available and function perfectly. Government food stocks also do not require such awkward expenses.
        For all of the above, so much is not needed annually.
        But what is significant!
        The question of inadequately high expenses on secret articles was barely raised by the press, when the government immediately received a proposal to sell banks their bona fide debts, which turned out to be insolvent at some point, to borrowers not to collectors for 2,8%, but to the borrowers themselves for these percentages .
        At first I couldn’t understand anything. What is it like? Then it came down - middle class bribery. To shut up, pleasantly taking care of their own finances. And pensioners - let them even sparkle! Retirees do not enter big domestic politics.
        1. Reptiloid
          Reptiloid 30 August 2019 15: 52
          +3
          Secrets ---- they are secrets, Lyudmila! love
          But here is the pension fund ---- unclassified and surprising ..... I do not have time ....
  12. vic02
    vic02 30 August 2019 08: 03
    +14
    V.I. Lenin Complete Works vol. 32 p. 268.
  13. New Year day
    New Year day 30 August 2019 08: 10
    +9
    ... but from the real increase in pensions so far only one is known - about two thousand for every unemployed pensioner in Moscow. As they say in such cases, and thanks for that.

    I was added 214 rubles and now it is 16 thousand. Work experience 36 years. So thanks to both M and Co., and GDP.
    1. WIKI
      WIKI 30 August 2019 09: 27
      +9
      Quote: Silvestr
      I was added 214 rubles
      of the real increases in pensions so far, only one is known - about two thousand for every unemployed pensioner in Moscow. As they say in such cases, and thanks for that.
      I’m like living in the region, but I just can’t say thank you. This fact causes only more irritation. Moscow, as the capital, which should unite people; its irrepressible waste of unearned money, corruption, covering all echelons of power, has become a disconnecting factor.
      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 11: 34
        +6
        Yes, against this background, the question involuntarily arises: maybe they deliberately push us to secession from Moscow, therefore, to divide into regional estates in the amount of 14 pieces (there was such a stuffing, remember!) With the subsequent division of a single country into independent countries. The military objected: 14 - little, irrationally, at least 16. That is, they want to deprive us of Moscow as the cradle of today's Russia, to erase the memory. Yes, you involuntarily think. Now Ivanov will say that I have seen enough of Ren-TV. Once I, Ivanov, watch TV, watch reality.
        1. New Year day
          New Year day 2 September 2019 13: 57
          +2
          Quote: depressant
          or maybe we are consciously pushing us to secede from Moscow

          divide and conquer is old but works
    2. sergo1914
      sergo1914 30 August 2019 13: 06
      +1
      Quote: Silvestr
      ... but from the real increase in pensions so far only one is known - about two thousand for every unemployed pensioner in Moscow. As they say in such cases, and thanks for that.

      I was added 214 rubles and now it is 16 thousand. Work experience 36 years. So thanks to both M and Co., and GDP.


      Well, that was reported. Added you to the column "to dispossession."
    3. Nikolay73
      Nikolay73 30 August 2019 14: 16
      0
      From September, wait ...
  14. Million
    Million 30 August 2019 08: 14
    +7
    How much is the president’s word

    It depends on which country the president is. Our word is worthless
    1. WIKI
      WIKI 30 August 2019 09: 31
      +11
      Quote: Million
      Our word is penniless

      "One of our tasks here in Russia is to never forget what the meaning of the functioning and existence of any government is - is to create a stable, normal, safe and predictable life for people, only with a forecast for improvement," - Putin told foreign journalists. How does it sound? Straight song.
      1. Svarog
        Svarog 30 August 2019 10: 12
        +11
        Quote: WIKI
        "One of our tasks here in Russia is to never forget what the meaning of the functioning and existence of any government is - is to create a stable, normal, safe and predictable life for people, only with a forecast for improvement," - Putin told foreign journalists. How does it sound? Straight song.

        So he is still a nightingale .. he doesn’t speak, but sings straight .. this talent helps him in rowing .. He has been rowing and telling tales for 20 years.
        1. WIKI
          WIKI 30 August 2019 10: 18
          +5
          Perhaps the Almighty will hear him:
      2. Stils
        Stils 30 August 2019 10: 51
        0
        Quote: WIKI
        Quote: Million
        Our word is penniless

        "One of our tasks here in Russia is to never forget what the meaning of the functioning and existence of any government is - is to create a stable, normal, safe and predictable life for people, only with a forecast for improvement," - Putin told foreign journalists. How does it sound? Straight song.

        Key phrase to never forget
        Just remember a couple of Our Rashi. Golden words Yuri Venediktovich! laughing
        1. depressant
          depressant 30 August 2019 11: 42
          +5
          WIKI, but not those words to God in ears, which Putin explained on the TV box the need for pension reform (excuse me, Ivanov, I watched this, but maybe it will become easier for you because it’s not through REN, but through the first channel).
  15. New Year day
    New Year day 30 August 2019 08: 15
    +12
    Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
    The faster we all die, the less people need to be fed. And the more money you can steal.

    But what about the evil Americans? because they must kill you, and seize the territory! And we ourselves ... laughing
  16. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 30 August 2019 08: 31
    +10
    Remove another six cents - it turns fifty dollars, that is half earned.
    And after that we go to the store and pay another 20% VAT. Then we pay the increased real estate tax, transport tax, excise taxes on fuel. That's almost 80%. And Putin’s favorite oligarchs continue to pay 13%.
  17. New Year day
    New Year day 30 August 2019 08: 31
    +10
    ... to banks where there are serious security guarantees and a deposit insurance system is in place.

    Who else believes in the guarantees of our banks and authorities? Life has shown that the best pension is that you earned it yourself and it should be stored in a 3-liter jar
  18. Desdecado
    Desdecado 30 August 2019 08: 54
    +11
    The guarantor is the faithful successor of Yeltsin, in the government at the trough there are all the same people as 30 years ago ... They are carrying out such "reforms" and only the scale has changed. Selling the country's resources for trillions of dollars for this very country and its people - in fact, nothing has been done; no jobs have been created, the country is dominated by imported migrants, there are no prospects for young people, especially for periphery, etc., moreover, a direct genocide of the indigenous population is being carried out with such a pension "reform" ..
    1. parusnik
      parusnik 30 August 2019 09: 07
      +13
      Guarantor Yeltsyn's faithful receiver
      .... Not in vain, such a Yeltsin Center wandered off ..
      1. Desdecado
        Desdecado 30 August 2019 09: 36
        +9
        In Russia, this has never happened before that thieves and crooks would build "centers", although the student-receiver has long surpassed the teacher in brainwashing and the scale of the stolen.
  19. Freeman
    Freeman 30 August 2019 09: 08
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Remove another six cents - it turns fifty dollars, that is half earned.
    And after that we go to the store and pay another 20% VAT. Then we pay the increased real estate tax, transport tax, excise taxes on fuel. That's almost 80%. And Putin’s favorite oligarchs continue to pay 13%.

    Our government just decided to test the Chinese parable on us
    1. Freeman
      Freeman 30 August 2019 11: 34
      +8
      Sorry, buggy when editing.
      I will try again.
      ...................................
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Remove another six cents - it turns fifty dollars, that is half earned.
      And after that we go to the store and pay another 20% VAT. Then we pay the increased real estate tax, transport tax, excise taxes on fuel. That's almost 80%. And Putin’s favorite oligarchs continue to pay 13%.


      Simple is our the government finally decided to take an example from China.
      That's just historical times mixed up.
      And it turned out like in a Chinese parable -

      The greedy Chinese emperor told his officials:
      “My subjects live too well!” They are cheerful and happy, which means they have a lot of money, and I have little in the treasury. Increase taxes.

      After increasing taxes, he sent officials to check the situation on the streets.
      “What are my subjects doing on the streets?” the emperor asked the ministers.
      “They complain and lament, sovereign,” the officials answered.
      “So they still have a lot of money.” Increase taxes.

      Taxes increased again.
      “What are my subjects doing now?” the emperor asked.
      “They lament, weep with bitter tears, and beg for mercy, sovereign.”
      - So they still have money! Increase taxes!

      “What are my subjects doing now?” the emperor asked.
      - They cry, curse fate and tear their hair out.
      “So they still have something left.” Increase taxes!

      And again, officials took to the streets to see.
      “Now, now what do my subjects do?”
      “For some reason, your subjects are laughing and dancing, sovereign.”
      - Here. - said the Chinese emperor. “Now they really have nothing left.”


      And it seems they are starting to succeed. The people are slowly beginning to "laugh and dance"

      1. depressant
        depressant 30 August 2019 11: 59
        +4
        I listened, laughed ...
        Strong is our people!
  20. akunin
    akunin 30 August 2019 09: 34
    +5
    Without recalling this, where did the cumulative deductions of those 40 million Russians who were born after(not after, but since 1967 - the author’s mistake)1967 and regularly made funded contributions almost all the time that they worked.
    and where did the accumulations of Russians from born in 1965 go? who older remembers that initially the funded part began in 1965 two years later, they decided that it was necessary to start from 1967. those accumulations simply left without explanation. am
  21. yehat
    yehat 30 August 2019 11: 18
    +5
    Quote: atalef
    They steal and lie - and first of all the state itself

    do not forget about the behavior of the pension fund itself, when more than a third of the annual income is spent on its existence. This is a lot. It’s not clear yet who the main thief is.
    Just when so many losses, some sense in increasing the percentage of deductions disappears.
  22. My_log_in
    My_log_in 30 August 2019 11: 45
    +1
    Quote: depressant
    How to change it, Svarog? ...
    So that?
    Well, really the election? It's funny!

    I’m more and more inclined to the opinion - what else? And I think that it is necessary to start at the elections "from below". If you just re-elect the top, little will change, examples are above the roof.
    1. depressant
      depressant 30 August 2019 12: 25
      +3
      A colleague, let’s say, the elections are from below. But then it is necessary as I described in the post about the received election letter. Election debates between candidates, mass meetings with voters. And even better - people who are known for their positive activities should be candidates. I don’t know such people in our area. With positive activities, we are tight. But everyone knows the imperious crooks and thieves, who nevertheless were put on trial. They didn’t give away others; apparently, they are honestly sharing with whom it is necessary. But self-nominated ... right away the question: who is behind them and pulls the strings?
      1. My_log_in
        My_log_in 30 August 2019 13: 01
        +2
        I do not argue, in our province the situation is completely similar. And the extreme elections showed, using the example of Grudinin, that with mass meetings and debates not everything can work out ...
  23. Olgovich
    Olgovich 30 August 2019 12: 07
    -3
    And 132 ruble urban retirement which are closer to stagnation could get practically any employee of research institute or state institution

    The author can prove this sky-high a figure?

    72 rubles is the average pension in 1985 of Mr. PIKE. Collective farmers - 47 rubles.
    Maximum pension120 rubles.
    SALARY leading engineer of the research institute 135 rubles, ordinary engineer 105 rubles

    Grandfather, personal senior citizen 140 rubles, grandmother, pnnsia 90 rubles ....

    what are 132 rubles? request
    1. sergo1914
      sergo1914 30 August 2019 13: 15
      -5
      Quote: Olgovich
      And 132 ruble urban retirement which are closer to stagnation could get practically any employee of research institute or state institution

      The author can prove this sky-high a figure?

      72 rubles is the average pension in 1985 of Mr. PIKE. Collective farmers - 47 rubles.
      Maximum pension120 rubles.
      SALARY leading engineer of the research institute 135 rubles, ordinary engineer 105 rubles

      Grandfather, personal senior citizen 140 rubles, grandmother, pnnsia 90 rubles ....

      what are 132 rubles? request



      1990 year. Moscow region. Young specialist immediately after high school. 160 rub / month Which 105?
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 30 August 2019 13: 44
        -1
        Quote: sergo1914

        1990 year. Moscow region. Young specialist immediately after high school. 160 rub / month Which 105?

        read the article:
        And already 132 rubles of city pension, which are closer to stagnation could get n

        stagnation is the 1970s-early 1980s.

        1981, young specialist of the National Research Laboratory (Research Laboratory) 105 rub.
        Personal pension (and how many there were) - 140 rubles.

        there was no mass pension of 132 rubles
        1. sergo1914
          sergo1914 30 August 2019 18: 46
          0
          Quote: Olgovich
          1981, young specialist of the National Laboratory of Scientific Research (Research Laboratory) 105 rubles


          I repeat. I'm talking about one of the numbers in the comment. Where are these sn? In Podlipki, generally 180 were given. But there is a red diploma in a person.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 31 August 2019 09: 40
            -2
            Quote: sergo1914
            I repeat. I'm talking about one of the numbers in the comment. Where are these sn? In Fingerprints generally 180 gave. But there is a red diploma in a person.

            1.1990 r is no longer an era of stagnation, and inflation was already.
            2. So it’s answered your figure, again: 1981, 105 rub-engineer, research laboratory (young specialist), MSSR
    2. VeteranVSSSR
      VeteranVSSSR 30 August 2019 21: 24
      +2
      Olgovich, nothing personal, but
      Mom-pension 132rub. (Knitter)
      Stepfather-pension 132 rubles (shoemaker)
      Mother-in-law pension 132 rubles. (inergetic engineer)
      Father-in-law 132 rubles (repairman)
      Continue:
      personally received in 1985, no did not receive, and earned somewhere 300-350 rubles.
  24. fif21
    fif21 30 August 2019 12: 15
    +4
    People! Do you still believe in the state's concern for you? Pension laws are not fulfilled (coefficient 72,23) Accumulated funds are withdrawn to the PROFICIENT budget (freezing of accumulated funds) Indexation lags behind inflation! (nominally, pensions have increased, real purchasing power has decreased) and this is not all the humiliation of pensioners. Demonstrations, rallies are the release of steam. What is the strength in, brother? In Truth! And try to tell the Government who they are in the eyes of the people and "sushi rusks" article of the Criminal Code, however. wassat hi
  25. UA3QHP
    UA3QHP 30 August 2019 12: 50
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    what are 132 rubles?

    The maximum pension is 120 rubles + 12 rubles per veteran (I do not remember the war or labor)
    My grandfather had such a pension, but he was both a war veteran and a labor veteran.
    1. Mcar
      Mcar 30 August 2019 14: 20
      +4
      Quote: Ua3qhp
      The maximum pension is 120 rubles + 12 rubles per veteran (I do not remember the war or labor)

      Labor.

      Mother for 6 years of retirement, while prices with restructuring did not fly away, managed to fly 132 rubles of pension from Khabarovsk to her friends of youth - once to Leningrad, another time to Riga. And also to Mongolia on a tour trip - for a fur coat. I brought two.
  26. Nikolay73
    Nikolay73 30 August 2019 14: 02
    +2
    The joy for Moscow pensioners would not be complete if other pensioners of the country, including the working ones, shared it with them ... especially the numbers hit me - the minimalist with seventeen-odd tends to twenty (this is what I heard on the news), I just see with enthusiasm applauding postmen, nurses and teachers joyfully throwing caps in the air and dropping tears of joy and tenderness by the actions of the Moscow authorities ...
  27. Giants
    Giants 30 August 2019 19: 27
    +6
    The whole point of the pension reform is to hide the fact of the total theft of the funded part of pensions. Now those who could apply for it will discover this five years later, and then either the donkey will die, or the padish.
  28. bk316
    bk316 30 August 2019 21: 03
    0
    I am ABSOLUTELY calm, I know for sure that I won’t live on retirement. Well, neither the state nor the NPF will pay me anything worthy.
    I don’t even know whether it’s worth pitying those who think differently. It seems in Russia it was customary to feel sorry for the weak with the mind, but not so weak
  29. xax
    xax 30 August 2019 22: 41
    +5
    12 or 24 Soviet rubles of the collective farm pension were quite a good help for people with their own home, plot, garden and livestock

    Yeah. A livestock, for example, when she stands at home in winter and does not go to the pasture, requires daily movement of various materials around her in almost tons - pump water from the pump (from the well), bring it in buckets - but not one or two buckets, and a little more. Then rake out the manure (and it is unmeasured), bring clean straw under your feet and the bed, bring hay and put it in the "feeding trough". Don't forget to milk while you milk. And how can you manage - go and carry firewood into the stove, which you procured, chopped and folded in the summer. You shouldn't forget about other animals and a vegetable garden, but a private house needs a thorough supervision with the master's eye: cleaning snow from the roof, regular repairs, etc. The most important thing is for old people to live like that. Of course, they don't need a pension - they are in the countryside. It was a lazy Soviet pensioner who kept chickens and grew a garden, and therefore he did not have enough pension. A normal Soviet pensioner (not a village) rustled for three modern strong men and was happy.
  30. Brigadier
    Brigadier 31 August 2019 02: 06
    +3

    Thanks to the great Pu and his company for our happy old age!
    It’s a pity that Stalin is not on you!
    1. Victor N
      Victor N 31 August 2019 09: 43
      -5
      This is what happens: only Russians can’t work after 60? Because in many countries of the world they are already working. And in Russia many work, God gave them health.
  31. tochila
    tochila 1 September 2019 13: 33
    0
    The Moscow Principality has its own pension system !!!
  32. tank64rus
    tank64rus 1 September 2019 16: 38
    +1
    In Moscow, yes, and the rest of Russia is a three-finger combination.
  33. Petrol cutter
    Petrol cutter 1 September 2019 18: 28
    0
    To write a comment on pensions I had to go through a whole * quest * however ...
    Today I am 44 years old. Assessing objectively the state of my health, I most likely will not live to a blessed pension of as much as 12000 rubles! To which of course I * shuffle to my liking *!
    Therefore, all these social packages (went to the sick-500 rubles to the tablets, 380 rubles-the sick paid) - mainly for complacency.
    In fact, I am personally ideological (to a degree). I feel sorry for the country. I do not work for pensions. I’ll die, and to hell with me. Not a great loss. It must be done.
    That's how it is. You can throw slippers into mnu.
  34. Vanek
    Vanek 2 September 2019 03: 34
    0
    That's always the case. I heard a ringing, and where the hell knows.

    But it normal. It's always like that. In 8 out of ten cases. Here and here (in the article) as well.

    6%.

    This is from the self-employed income.

    That is, those who do not pay 44%.

    44 I am crying! because officially arranged and sn white. Here I am crying 44.

    Self-employed does not pay anything.

    They ask him for 6.

    With the hint that they say drugan! You will retire too. Sooner or later. Anyway. But get out. And when you come out you will scream - where is my pension.

    And why do you pay this same pension ?????

    Ever 44 that Vanya paid?

    And then how to pay Vanka pension?

    HAMMERS !!!

    Sailed.

    hi
  35. Dmitry Smekalov
    Dmitry Smekalov 3 September 2019 17: 22
    0
    Comparison of Soviet and modern pensions: https://youtu.be/rtXOuTu_xEc
  36. Comrade Kim
    Comrade Kim 4 September 2019 16: 36
    0
    Quote: 210ox
    I don’t think that thirty-year-olds will carry their money with joy

    I managed to connect to the accumulation scheme.
    A few years later, the state changed the rules, money from the funded part was not only frozen, but also cut.
    Now new manipulations. These bloodsuckers no longer know what a lie to come up with to justify another robbery of the population. Vile and disgusting. Pumped up Fund nat. welfare и STABILITY FUND money on the most tonsils, and we once again include the Cry of Yaroslavna, about the impossibility of paying honestly earned pensions without raising the retirement age.
    On TV, some talk shows about how bad it is in / in Ukraine, in social networks, the Internet, liberal sodomites are sadly fighting about the "kGov regime", and meanwhile "effective menagers" are ripping off the last pieces of meat from the skeleton of the people.