Military Review

Neither the US “Hellfire” nor the Israeli “Pika” will break through the Russian “Shell”

155
Russian military analysts commented news that American helicopter pilots conducted exercises to suppress Russian air defense systems and allegedly successfully destroyed the Pantsir anti-aircraft missile and gun system. Yes, the layout destroyed by the US Air Force pilots with the Israeli Spike Non-Line-of-Sight (NLOS) missile really resembled the Russian Shell shell. But, according to military experts, the success of the US military was determined precisely by the fact that in reality it was just a fake, not real weapon Russian missile defense to destroy any flying targets.




To begin with, the American Hellfire helicopter missiles ("Hellfire") fly at distances of up to eight kilometers as much as possible. Whereas now the Russian "Shell" is capable of destroying targets at a distance of up to twenty kilometers. So, even the fastest and most maneuverable star-striped army helicopters do not have the slightest chance of even approaching the aforementioned air defense missile systems of the RF Armed Forces.

Moreover, the next-generation US missiles JAGM (Joint Air-to-Ground Missile), which should be in service with the US Armed Forces next year instead of Hellfire, also do not know how to cover distances more than eight kilometers short.

Not having his own weapons of the required range, the Pentagon turned to its Israeli colleagues and borrowed the Spike Non-Line-of-Sight (NLOS) missile from them for appropriate exercises. According to the announcement, this shell is capable of hitting a target at a distance of up to twenty-five kilometers. A note on Non-Line-of-Sight suggests that this “smart” homing missile can be fired from a position where targets for destruction are not yet visible.

Based on the tactical and technical characteristics of the Israeli “Peaks”, it has the opportunity to hit the shell “Zarak”. But, according to expert estimates of the Russian military experts, such an opportunity is purely theoretical. We must not forget that the defense of the Russian borders, including the air defense and missile defense lines, as well as electronic warfare, is in depth. Naturally, various air defense systems, air defense systems and electronic warfare systems cover all areas of each other’s destruction several times over.

Accordingly, all Russian air defense / missile defense systems work purely together and never separately. Such Russian systems as C-400, C-300 and Buk conduct surveillance over long distances. On the contrary, various modifications of the “Shell” and “Tor” complexes cover the nearby lesion zones. In the complex, these air defense systems are practically invulnerable, since they all see everything.

Therefore, based on the performance characteristics of the Israeli Spike missile, the Americans, in principle, can get into our air defense or electronic warfare systems. But it’s unlikely that it will be possible to go out on strike positions to planes, helicopters or UAV drones unnoticed and not destroyed.

In addition, it is necessary to take into account the fact that the air defense system of the "Shell" family is constantly being technically improved. So, the model of the latest generation “Shell-SM”, which was tested this spring, will be able to detect flying targets at a distance of up to seventy-five kilometers, and destroy them within a radius of forty kilometers. Consequently, the Israeli rocket again remains offside in this battlefield. The latest “Shell-SM” should come to the defense of Russia in a year, in 2021 year, further strengthening the security of the borders of the Fatherland on land and from the air.
Author:
Photos used:
https://regnum.ru/pictures/2414230/1.html
155 comments
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  1. WILL
    WILL 31 August 2019 15: 05
    +14
    Well done! laughing On ducks in the dash - also shoot cool laughing wink
    Attacking the layout is powerful!
    1. svp67
      svp67 31 August 2019 15: 11
      +15
      Quote: ANIMAL
      Attacking the layout is powerful!

      We must conduct our tests and shoot down all their "models"
      1. WILL
        WILL 31 August 2019 15: 14
        +1
        offer to host a computer games tournament? what
        1. Ilya-spb
          Ilya-spb 31 August 2019 17: 38
          +9
          I here ... Once played Quake 2. There, aliens defeated. Am I cooler than Americans with their victory over dummies?
        2. smershxnumx
          smershxnumx 31 August 2019 21: 55
          +4
          offer to host a computer games tournament?

          Really show who whom only real battle. Better let them conquer themselves as winners ... And who will be the winner - we won’t tell anyone yet laughing
          1. vlados
            vlados 1 September 2019 23: 43
            -1
            The Chinese, or what?
    2. novel66
      novel66 31 August 2019 15: 12
      +19
      they forgot one thing -
      1. Ravil_Asnafovich
        Ravil_Asnafovich 31 August 2019 15: 35
        +1
        Precisely, I would put more pluses.
    3. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 1 September 2019 10: 35
      0
      Quote: ANIMAL
      Attacking the layout is powerful!


      (FILM - "RESTless FARMING")
      And safe, unlike real samples!
      1. Slon379
        Slon379 5 September 2019 21: 44
        0
        F-35 or something shot down?
    4. smart ass
      smart ass 1 September 2019 22: 07
      0
      I’m interested in something else, will soon be on duty with the s500 and then with the s600 ?! And maybe in a couple of decades, air defense missiles will become intercontinental range, will the air force die out? How are battleships?
  2. svp67
    svp67 31 August 2019 15: 09
    +3
    Hellfire rockets (Hellfire)
    Wrong translation into Russian, into Russian it should be translated as "Fire Geeena"
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 August 2019 19: 45
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      Hellfire rockets (Hellfire)
      Wrong translation into Russian, into Russian it should be translated as "Fire Geeena"

      The author is not at all in the subject. Helfair comes from Helicopter and Fire. That is, "Helicopter" and "Shoot".
      1. Vladimir16
        Vladimir16 2 September 2019 13: 45
        -2
        You, professor, started spinning too much. laughing
        Hell Fire Where have you seen a helicopter? request

        Have you decided to work as a lawyer?
        It’s more expensive to work on devils.

        Helicopter by Sikorsky Helicopter. fellow
        For ignorance of the host language you can get a thrashing laughing

        So that who is not in the subject will be judged by others. wink
        1. Professor
          Professor 2 September 2019 15: 33
          +1
          Quote: Vladimir16
          You, professor, started spinning too much. laughing
          Hell Fire Where have you seen a helicopter? request

          Have you decided to work as a lawyer?
          It’s more expensive to work on devils.

          Helicopter by Sikorsky Helicopter. fellow
          For ignorance of the host language you can get a thrashing laughing

          So that who is not in the subject will be judged by others. wink

          Teach materiel.
          Boeing / Lockheed Martin (Rockwell / Martin Marietta) AGM-114 Hellfire
          The program to develop a laser guided fire-and-forget anti-armor missile was initiated in 1971 under the name Wholeicopter Launched Fire and Forget Missile (leading to the acronym Hellfire).
          http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-114.html



          Development of this weapon began in 1974, as a US Army program. In its conceptual phase, the AGM-114 was known as the "HELFIRE", a portmanteau of "WHOLEicopter Launched FIRE and forget "
          http://www.military-today.com/missiles/hellfire.htm
    2. bronek
      bronek 1 September 2019 11: 04
      +5
      Everything is translated correctly. "Hell fire". In Hellfire, the epithet is the word Hell, while in "hell of fire," the opposite is the word fiery. Do you feel the difference?
  3. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 31 August 2019 15: 29
    +24
    Let's be honest - Russian air defense is a strong shield, but the enemy’s sword is heavy and sharp ... The outcome of the battle depends not only on the depth and intensity of the defense, but also on the outfit of the attack forces ...
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 September 2019 17: 50
      +2
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      Let's be honest - Russian air defense is a strong shield, but the enemy’s sword is heavy and sharp ... The outcome of the battle depends not only on the depth and intensity of the defense, but also on the outfit of the attack forces ...

      There are two main factors ... the first, the density of separation of the defense and the second, a quantitative volley of weapons at the adversary in a relatively narrow section of our defense.
    2. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 1 September 2019 20: 48
      +5
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      Let's be honest - Russian air defense is a strong shield, but the enemy’s sword is heavy and sharp ... The outcome of the battle depends not only on the depth and intensity of the defense, but also on the outfit of the attack forces ...

      As Syria showed.
      2 shells left for the rainbow. One with the crew.
      1. smart ass
        smart ass 1 September 2019 22: 09
        +2
        It was necessary for the crew not to eat a ram, but at the post
    3. Oleg (Kharkov)
      Oleg (Kharkov) 27 September 2019 18: 16
      +1
      Not so simple, alas. In 1991 there was both a shield and a sword. Did not help. Navalny / Sobchak will come to power and, with words about liberal happiness, will ruin what remains. Not rockets are weapons of victory - ideology. It was she who helped the Bolsheviks in the civilian.
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 27 September 2019 18: 20
        -1
        Quote: Oleg (Kharkov)
        Navalny / Sobchak will come to power

        Will not come. And don't dream request
  4. Amateur
    Amateur 31 August 2019 15: 30
    +18
    As one Soviet general used to say, "the best air defense is our tanks at the enemy airfield."
    am
    1. Professor
      Professor 31 August 2019 19: 46
      +2
      Quote: Amateur
      As one Soviet general used to say, "the best air defense is our tanks at the enemy airfield."
      am

      When did an Israeli general become Soviet?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 1 September 2019 17: 41
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        When did an Israeli general become Soviet?

        Is there a link to the source of the phrase? I can’t find something. request Or do you have all the inventions owned by Jews? wink
        1. Professor
          Professor 1 September 2019 20: 55
          +3
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: Professor
          When did an Israeli general become Soviet?

          Is there a link to the source of the phrase? I can’t find something. request Or do you have all the inventions owned by Jews? wink

          Not all, but only some of the useful ones.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 1 September 2019 21: 51
            +2
            But more specifically about the source of the phrase weakly? Or is our hutspa all? wink
            1. Professor
              Professor 2 September 2019 09: 48
              0
              Laziness and hutspa is your everything. Go ahead. I will keep the source for now.
              1. Tenet
                Tenet 2 September 2019 11: 29
                0
                the cuckoo praises the rooster for praising the cuckoo ...) you already decide with the Armenians who in the world is smarter than everyone ...))) and invite the Sumerians to argue.
  5. knn54
    knn54 31 August 2019 15: 38
    +2
    I add, there must be a high level of preparation of the calculation.
    1. Chaldon48
      Chaldon48 31 August 2019 16: 16
      +1
      And protecting a certain object, all defense echelons must be present and be ready at the same time.
  6. Svyatoslav Palchikov
    Svyatoslav Palchikov 31 August 2019 15: 39
    +3
    The carapace is certainly all the more modernized, and therefore it must be weighted on another chassis. Fact
    1. novel66
      novel66 31 August 2019 15: 54
      0
      so, put on the t-72 chassis
    2. NEXUS
      NEXUS 1 September 2019 17: 58
      +1
      Quote: Svyatoslav Palchikov
      The carapace is certainly all the more modernized, and therefore it must be weighted on another chassis. Fact


      ZRPK type "Pantsir-S1" on the chassis GM-352M1E, plant "Shcheglovsky Val", Tula
    3. S-cream
      S-cream 3 September 2019 09: 55
      0
      Be curious
      NEW PANTSIR-SM ON CHASSIS K-53958 "TORNADO"
  7. Sarduor
    Sarduor 31 August 2019 15: 39
    +2
    Nevertheless, the armor in Syria destroyed.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 31 August 2019 18: 38
      +1
      Quote: Sarduor
      Nevertheless, the armor in Syria destroyed.

      when the unit was not in combat mode
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. neri73-r
          neri73-r 31 August 2019 19: 08
          0
          Quote: Lbt2103
          Are you for complacency ?? You forgot to add that the installation was not only not in combat mode, but the wheels were removed and the maintenance staff went to cook pilaf)))

          Destroyed two, one complex was without ammunition at the airport, the second during operation, but they could overload it, if there was another one, two, then the Jews would wash themselves!
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. cradle
              cradle 2 September 2019 02: 27
              -1
              if they were picked up, then they would click all
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Victor Orthodox
                  Victor Orthodox 2 September 2019 05: 18
                  -1
                  And you get from the sect of Fsopropalo!,!
                  The video was where the crew escaped to the shell before being hit by a rocket.
                  And if globally, of course, an invincible weapon does not exist. The keys will be surely picked up, then lost, and so on in a circle. Not everything is lost, not everything.
      2. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 31 August 2019 19: 10
        -1
        Two installations were in combat mode, one even fired back.
        1. Leon68
          Leon68 31 August 2019 19: 43
          +3
          But nothing, that the video you are linking to is cut from several pieces.
          1. taurtaurov
            taurtaurov 31 August 2019 20: 20
            -1
            Quote: Leon68
            But nothing, that the video you are linking to is cut from several pieces.

            And not something that is enough propaganda to understand and eliminate errors, it is clear that the shooting in milk or rab or ???
          2. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 31 August 2019 20: 38
            0
            In the video defeat TWO installations. The first was destroyed at the time when it was fired (with two missiles), the second was struck when it was with its guns raised.
            1. neri73-r
              neri73-r 1 September 2019 22: 46
              0
              So put the video here and see! tongue
          3. Vitaly gusin
            Vitaly gusin 2 September 2019 06: 36
            +2
            Quote: Leon68
            But nothing, something video,

            The picture from the place where the air defense system was destroyed allowed us to get a more accurate picture of the incident on May 10. It seems that the Pantsir-S was not in a combat position, including radar, after he fired all of his missiles at some targets. The position of the hydrostructure suggests that the system was preparing for overload.

            "Everything is just Vatsan"
            At first they give a shot at the tricks, and only then, like ducks.
    2. Tenet
      Tenet 2 September 2019 11: 44
      0
      about a fool, how he broke his forehead, I think there is no need to remind ...))) you can destroy everything that was ever created, invulnerable systems do not exist in nature hi
      1. Vitaly gusin
        Vitaly gusin 2 September 2019 20: 46
        +1
        Quote: TENET
        invulnerable systems do not exist in nature

        Yes, you are right, but there are lies and TRUTH!
  8. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill 31 August 2019 15: 47
    +5
    So, not even the fastest and most maneuverable star-striped army helicopters have the slightest chance of even approaching the aforementioned air defense missile systems of the RF Armed Forces
    .
    Someone tell the author that the earth is not flat and not even like a chessboard.
    1. Aerodrome
      Aerodrome 31 August 2019 19: 04
      +8
      Quote: Jack O'Neill
      Someone tell the author that the earth is not flat and not even like a chessboard.

      as... belay how do planes take off with a round?
  9. rocket757
    rocket757 31 August 2019 15: 50
    +6
    Systemic, integrated air defense, you can only try the same systemic attack tactics. The lone striker is doomed. Unless, of course, they come up with something fundamentally new, killer!
    However, the factor "flapped with ears" has not yet been canceled.
    Therefore, the motto of air defense officers is to not sleep on duty and do not clap your ears !!!
  10. Dietmar
    Dietmar 31 August 2019 16: 01
    -2
    As "Associate Professor" said - "push bullshit ..."
  11. Alien From
    Alien From 31 August 2019 16: 07
    +2
    in vitro, too, chemical weapons were ......
  12. garri-lin
    garri-lin 31 August 2019 16: 27
    +1
    Stupid article. The main targets for the Shell are weapons. He must bring down both the Pico and the Flames. No matter how and who launches them. Carry on carriers. This is good. But they can not be seen.
  13. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 31 August 2019 16: 36
    +17
    To begin with, the American Hellfire helicopter missiles ("Hellfire") fly at distances of up to eight kilometers as much as possible. How can I convince the authors of the "eight-kilometer" "Hellfires" that 8 km is not "maximum range" at all! Long bow, for example, has a range of -10-11 km ... Brimstone -12 km only from a helicopter! "Brimstone-2" will be able to "fly" over 40 (up to 60?) Km in the "airplane" version ... over 20 km in a helicopter! The newest JAGM "shoots" at 16 km from a helicopter, from an airplane - sv. 20 km (28?) ... So compare now! I don’t know anything about the "Shell SM" yet; but "Shell-С / С1 / С2" cannot hit aerial targets, for example, helicopters, behind any natural or artificial hill ... or in the "lowland" "due to" the peculiarities of their missiles and guidance system! At the same time, enemy helicopters can use anti-tank missiles with a third-generation seeker from a "shelter"! For the "Pantsir", loitering ammunition with a television guidance system that can use the "folds" of the terrain is also dangerous! In this case, having broken through to the "Pantsir", they will break through to the S-3/300 ... Air defense / missile defense systems of the MNTK type are required, along with more "long-range" complexes ...
    1. mvg
      mvg 31 August 2019 16: 52
      +9
      Withdrew from the language .. something like that and painted in his comment
      http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/hellfire2/hellfire2.shtml
      And authors like Orlov .. I don’t know how to come up with such articles ... with a Google translator
    2. Siberian 66
      Siberian 66 31 August 2019 16: 55
      +11
      I read the article with great thoughtfulness ... And the Americans know that they have lost all the polymers? And have we already defeated everyone? I thought that the idea "with one blow on someone else's territory" somehow already disappeared into historical reality .. But no. The ultimate weapon is created by all other fools. How can one walk with boiling water with delight ... The same "Shell" has so many restrictions on its use .. I will not go further, otherwise I think there are American experts here ..
    3. Winnie76
      Winnie76 31 August 2019 17: 21
      -5
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      At the same time, enemy helicopters can use anti-tank missiles with a third-generation seeker from a "shelter"! For the "Pantsir", loitering ammunition with a television guidance system that can use the "folds" of the terrain is also dangerous!

      Of course you can apply. And how does the guidance and television guidance work in electronic warfare conditions?
      1. shahor
        shahor 31 August 2019 18: 05
        +6
        Quote: Winnie76
        Of course you can apply. And how does the guidance and television guidance work in electronic warfare conditions?

        And Spike GSN combined. IR and optics. EW is powerless here.
        Well, we won’t see a movie about getting there, but there won’t be a shell. This is the point of sharing Spike-JAGM. Depending on the conditions, different means of destruction, with different capabilities.
      2. Zeev Zeev
        Zeev Zeev 31 August 2019 20: 39
        0
        It works normally in electronic warfare conditions. They are hovering over the picture, and not by radio signal.
      3. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 1 September 2019 00: 27
        +2
        Quote: Winnie76
        how do hover heads and tv heads work in electronic warfare conditions?
        Reply

        And you better ask the "tovarischi Jews"!
    4. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi 31 August 2019 17: 39
      +4
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      At the same time, enemy helicopters can use anti-tank missiles with a third-generation seeker from a "shelter"! For the "Pantsir", loitering ammunition with a television guidance system that can use the "folds" of the terrain is also dangerous! In this case, having broken through to the "Pantsir", they will break through to the S-3/300 ... Air defense / missile defense systems of the MNTK type are required, along with more "long-range" complexes ...

      The latest Spike NLOS modifications have shown 32 km range in the USA.
  14. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 16: 49
    -1
    Quote: Jack O'Neill
    So, not even the fastest and most maneuverable star-striped army helicopters have the slightest chance of even approaching the aforementioned air defense missile systems of the RF Armed Forces
    .
    Someone tell the author that the earth is not flat and not even like a chessboard.

    Someone tell the opponent what the integration of detection tools is
    1. kiril1246
      kiril1246 1 September 2019 13: 56
      +1
      Quote: E.S.
      Someone tell the opponent what the integration of detection tools is

      Does your integration of detection systems allow you to determine the coordinates of the air of your own reconnaissance aircraft before launching an air defense missile?
  15. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 17: 43
    +2
    Quote: Svyatoslav Palchikov
    The carapace is certainly all the more modernized, and therefore it must be weighted on another chassis. Fact

    False causation.
  16. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 17: 51
    -1
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    To begin with, the American Hellfire helicopter missiles ("Hellfire") fly at distances of up to eight kilometers as much as possible. How can I convince the authors of the "eight-kilometer" "Hellfires" that 8 km is not "maximum range" at all! Long bow, for example, has a range of -10-11 km ... Brimstone -12 km only from a helicopter! "Brimstone-2" will be able to "fly" over 40 (up to 60?) Km in the "airplane" version ... over 20 km in a helicopter! The newest JAGM "shoots" at 16 km from a helicopter, from an airplane - sv. 20 km (28?) ... So compare now! I don’t know anything about the "Shell SM" yet; but "Shell-С / С1 / С2" cannot hit aerial targets, for example, helicopters, behind any natural or artificial hill ... or in the "lowland" "due to" the peculiarities of their missiles and guidance system! At the same time, enemy helicopters can use anti-tank missiles with a third-generation seeker from a "shelter"! For the "Pantsir", loitering ammunition with a television guidance system that can use the "folds" of the terrain is also dangerous! In this case, having broken through to the "Pantsir", they will break through to the S-3/300 ... Air defense / missile defense systems of the MNTK type are required, along with more "long-range" complexes ...

    I do not know what kind of "ATGM 3 generations with the GOS", but:
    The Apache Longbow must first detect the target by his over-sleeve misunderstanding, then he can jump, shoot, and only after that he can run away. By the radiation of the nadulochnik it will be detected before it approaches the firing range. Tales about "he just sticks out a ball, but he will be behind a tree / mound" it is good to tell those who have no idea what the "near zone of the radar" is, he will just stick out enough to get a missile defense system
    1. Nestorovich
      Nestorovich 31 August 2019 18: 16
      +1
      Quote: E.S.
      I do not know what kind of "ATGM 3 generations with the GOS", but:
      Apache longbow must first discover the target with its sub-muzzle misunderstanding, after that jump, shoot, and only after that can run away

      so the fact of the matter is that the new generation allows you to receive external target designation, and the new GOS has a combined mode. It’s enough because of the obstacle to just shoot in the right direction ...
    2. Professor
      Professor 31 August 2019 19: 52
      +2
      Quote: E.S.
      Apache longbow must first discover the target with its sub-muzzle misunderstanding, after this jump, shoot, and only then can run away.

      Only not with UFOs. Translate this abbreviation into Russian and everything will become clear.
  17. Klingon
    Klingon 31 August 2019 18: 25
    0
    Quote: Sarduor
    Nevertheless, the armor in Syria destroyed.

    the Arabs do not have such a highly echeloned defense and discipline is lame, to leave the fighting compartment to have an evening prayer or to have a cup of tea during the fighting is very necessary to be wise, but alone and with an empty ammunition and with poor crew training and of course for the above reasons you can destroy anything
    1. atalef
      atalef 31 August 2019 21: 20
      0
      Quote: Klingon
      the Arabs do not have such a highly echeloned defense, and discipline is lame, to leave the fighting compartment to offer evening prayer or to drink tea during the fighting, it’s necessary to be very wise

      there are no tales of layered air defense in Russia either ..
      The author's message The shell cannot be destroyed.
      In addition to some perplexity, it does not cause anything, especially against the background of the real fact of the destruction of at least 2's.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 31 August 2019 22: 14
        +7
        Quote: atalef
        The author's message The shell cannot be destroyed.
        In addition to some perplexity, it does not cause anything, especially against the background of the real fact of the destruction of at least 2's.

        You can destroy anything you like under a certain set of circumstances, the only question is: What is the same Shell / not yet fully developed \ is still the most effective in the world near-range air defense system ...... from here to him the closest attention in all the media, about the Avager or the same your air defense system Spider, not a word, as if they were not
        1. Nestorovich
          Nestorovich 1 September 2019 00: 30
          0
          Quote: Ascetic
          Quote: atalef
          The author's message The shell cannot be destroyed.
          In addition to some perplexity, it does not cause anything, especially against the background of the real fact of the destruction of at least 2's.

          You can destroy anything you like under a certain set of circumstances, the only question is: What is the same Shell / not yet fully developed \ is still the most effective in the world near-range air defense system ...... from here to him the closest attention in all the media, about the Avager or the same your air defense system Spider, not a word, as if they were not

          Well, as a rule, knowledgeable people usually write efficiency in processes and not having no analogs, they can’t, and then like in the bank below in small print why can ... wassat
        2. atalef
          atalef 1 September 2019 05: 42
          0
          Quote: Ascetic
          You can destroy anything with a certain set of circumstances

          Hello, Stanislav hi
          Not with a coincidence, but with competent attack tactics.

          Quote: Ascetic
          That the same Shell / not yet fully developed \ is so far the most effective short-range air defense system in the world

          effectiveness is tested in real combat conditions - the rest of the OBS about non-existent analogs in the world - we have already heard.
          So far, success is not very.
          You can certainly blame for not being finalized, for the crooked Arabs, but in general for anything.
          In reality, everything looks like this. - 2 armor destroyed - this is a fact.
          Quote: Ascetic
          ..from here to him the closest attention in all media

          Well, about all the media, I doubt it, but when something is declared as the best in the world, many people wonder if it is
          Quote: Ascetic
          about the Avager or your very own air defense system spider not a word, as if they were not

          probably because we are not worried.
          While in a combat situation we will not check.
          And it will be like with the Shell - and the statement about the best in the world has already been cast.
          and here --- oops crying
  18. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 19: 00
    -1
    Quote: Nestorovich
    Quote: E.S.
    I do not know what kind of "ATGM 3 generations with the GOS", but:
    Apache longbow must first discover the target with its sub-muzzle misunderstanding, after that jump, shoot, and only after that can run away

    so the fact of the matter is that the new generation allows you to receive external target designation, and the new GOS has a combined mode. It’s enough because of the obstacle to just shoot in the right direction ...

    Then it turns out "God from the car informed the location of the air defense system, we crept up and fired"
    But if the location is known from external target designation, then you can stupidly shoot Highmars for 300 km
    1. Nestorovich
      Nestorovich 1 September 2019 00: 45
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      Quote: Nestorovich
      Quote: E.S.
      I do not know what kind of "ATGM 3 generations with the GOS", but:
      Apache longbow must first discover the target with its sub-muzzle misunderstanding, after that jump, shoot, and only after that can run away

      so the fact of the matter is that the new generation allows you to receive external target designation, and the new GOS has a combined mode. It’s enough because of the obstacle to just shoot in the right direction ...

      Then it turns out "God from the car informed the location of the air defense system, we crept up and fired"
      But if the location is known from external target designation, then you can stupidly shoot Highmars for 300 km

      possible, but the system is cheaper, and the battlefield. Again, the flight time is minimal ...
  19. Ros 56
    Ros 56 31 August 2019 19: 04
    +2
    And the layout was shot back? If not, then so I can give anyone on the head, if he does not move. angry laughing
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 19: 22
      0
      The layout may be a real air defense system with the calculation and BC, but with the competent use of helicopters it has almost no chance.
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 31 August 2019 19: 25
        +5
        Well, yes, there will be a lone air defense system, wait for competent helicopters. It’s not funny for yourself?
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 31 August 2019 21: 58
          -2
          The whole story about the firing layout is funny, in a spherical vacuum))
          In reality (in the absence of air patrols), helicopters can secretly approach at low altitude and knock out similar air defense systems protecting the near air defense zone (and located along the perimeter).
  20. Saxahorse
    Saxahorse 31 August 2019 19: 14
    +5
    I apologize in advance, but this is not news, but some kind of nonsense from pseudo-patriotic reasoning.

    In fact, the old "good" Maverick, which is already being removed from service, had a range of more than 30 km and could easily endure shell-type systems with one salvo .. As far as I remember, the ancient F4 Phantom could carry eight Mavericks and launch them at once ..

    And I’ll add another kilogram of tar to our PR managers. If anyone forgot, in Syria the Shell showed itself much worse than our Thor. Our journalists, however, cursed that on 3 small UAVs the Shell was spending 12 rockets each. TOP worked them out one by one. But at the same time, we still get into this Shell as the best system of near air defense ..
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 22: 01
      +2
      I agree, and the very principle of firing at the Tor air defense missile system is more flexible (vertical launch). "Minus" - more expensive missiles, they have a shell with a semi-active laser seeker.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 1 September 2019 03: 21
        +1
        Quote: 3danimal
        they have a shell with a semi-active laser seeker.

        Boska's womb! I slept! I overslept the appearance of a zur with a semi-active laser seeker in the "Pantsir" ammunition load! It's good that they "enlightened"! fool
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 1 September 2019 05: 36
          -1
          Sorry, wrong hi
          Radio command.
          But in any case, only those targets towards which the tower is turned can attack, with the need to lead the target to defeat. When attacking from two sides, it will not cope (unlike Thor).
  21. 3danimal
    3danimal 31 August 2019 19: 21
    +1
    You can destroy any SAM. A couple of (or 10-ok, depending on the level of air defense systems) HARMs, X-31P and - done.
    Hellfire is easier to intercept, but when fired from 2 directions, hitting it is also not a problem. He only shoots where he looks.
    Not to mention the fact that it is possible to oversaturated the interception channels by launching 8 pieces at once (from a low altitude, exposing only the sub-muzzle radar, missiles with ARLGSN).
  22. Zeev Zeev
    Zeev Zeev 31 August 2019 19: 27
    +4
    Israeli "Pica"? Generally, SPIKE translates as "thorn, thorn". And "pike" will be "pike". By the way, the original Hebrew name Spike-NLOS is much cooler - "Tammuz" is not only the summer month (approximately June-July), but also the ancient Babylonian god of fertility.
  23. Old26
    Old26 31 August 2019 19: 42
    +6
    Quote: neri73-r
    Destroyed two, one complex was without ammunition at the airport, the second during operation, but they could overload it, if there was another one, two, then the Jews would wash themselves!

    If, if. If yes ...
    All the salt in the breakthrough of the air defense lies in the fact that there is no need to stupidly shove airplanes (helicopters) onto the launcher, but to create a situation when an overload occurs.
    The fact that one of the systems was without an ammunition in a combat position indicates the professionalism of the Syrian air defense forces. This complex has a transport-loading machine, which was supposed to replenish the ammunition of the installation, while the other would cover this reloading. And do not stupidly put her on the strip and wait for something

    And to say that someone will wash up there if they "dare" is stupid. It is necessary to pay very close attention to such exercises, it is there, on such exercises, the tactics of dealing with such attitudes are being worked out
  24. Professor
    Professor 31 August 2019 19: 42
    0
    Not having his own weapons of the required range, the Pentagon turned to its Israeli colleagues and borrowed the Spike Non-Line-of-Sight (NLOS) missile from them for appropriate exercises. According to the announcement, this shell is capable of hitting a target at a distance of up to twenty-five kilometers.

    30 km, not 25.

    A note on Non-Line-of-Sight suggests that this “smart” homing missile can be fired from a position where targets for destruction are not yet visible.

    Not "targets" but "targets".

    Therefore, based on the performance characteristics of the Israeli Spike missile, the Americans, in principle, can get into our air defense or electronic warfare systems. But it’s unlikely that it will be possible to go out on strike positions to planes, helicopters or UAV drones unnoticed and not destroyed.

    And what about the "curvature of the earth's surface"? lol

    In addition, it is necessary to take into account the fact that the air defense system of the "Shell" family is constantly being technically improved. So, the model of the latest generation “Shell-SM”, which was tested this spring, will be able to detect flying targets at a distance of up to seventy-five kilometers, and destroy them within a radius of forty kilometers. Consequently, the Israeli rocket again remains offside in this battlefield.

    This rocket has a successful combat experience after hundreds of uses. While it is in demand. By the way, the Americans were not interested in her at all for the destruction of Russian air defense.
    https://www.calcalist.co.il/local/articles/0,7340,L-3769259,00.html?ref=ynet

    PS
    Small item on the C grade with a minus. negative

    PPP
    Video of the combat use of the shell why the author did not post?
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 31 August 2019 21: 32
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      And what about the "curvature of the earth's surface"?

      It is necessary to be an idiot in order not to take into account the unfavorable tactical location, again, if the protected object cannot be located in another place, this factor in real operational environment should be taken into account, and this is just a window dressing from behind a helicopter to launch a rocket .. on a single target, not a target ..... there are no further words. Atoll Kwajalein and the downed Minuteman rocket from the same series have long been forgotten about this
      1. Professor
        Professor 1 September 2019 06: 50
        0
        Quote: Ascetic
        Quote: Professor
        And what about the "curvature of the earth's surface"?

        It is necessary to be an idiot in order not to take into account the unfavorable tactical location, again, if the protected object cannot be located in another place, this factor in real operational environment should be taken into account, and this is just a window dressing from behind a helicopter to launch a rocket .. on a single target, not a target ..... there are no further words. Atoll Kwajalein and the downed Minuteman rocket from the same series have long been forgotten about this

        Whom do you call idiots?
  25. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 20: 14
    -2
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: E.S.
    Apache longbow must first discover the target with its sub-muzzle misunderstanding, after this jump, shoot, and only then can run away.

    Only not with UFOs. Translate this abbreviation into Russian and everything will become clear.

    The translation of the abbreviation does not imply that the radio waves from the supra-torso propagate along the curve through terrain masks
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 22: 05
      +1
      You misunderstood: we are talking about the fact that when you find a target in a sub-radar radar, you don’t have to jump. Rockets fly with a climb to the side of the target and homing.
  26. yfast
    yfast 31 August 2019 20: 29
    0
    And if you attach cartridges with a smoke screen to the Shell, maybe it will not be visible in the optics and the thermal imager?
    And if the car also drives off automatically, firing off these checkers?
    1. Zeev Zeev
      Zeev Zeev 31 August 2019 20: 42
      +1
      So, for this, "Pantsir" must detect the approach of a rocket.
      1. yfast
        yfast 31 August 2019 23: 46
        +2
        Video from Spike's TV head shows that the second destroyed "Shell" saw the missiles until the moment of destruction, but could not shoot them down.
        1. Zeev Zeev
          Zeev Zeev 1 September 2019 08: 42
          0
          First, it is not a fact that it was "Spike". Secondly, it is not a fact that I would have had time to leave.
        2. The popuas
          The popuas 3 September 2019 18: 13
          0
          If there were 10 missiles and he shot down others, not with which the Israelis posted a video fool
    2. atalef
      atalef 31 August 2019 21: 23
      +4
      Quote: yfast
      And if you attach cartridges with a smoke screen to the Shell, maybe it will not be visible in the optics and the thermal imager?
      And if the car also drives off automatically, firing off these checkers?

      and if you bury it, or surround it with burning tires - then generally cool
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 1 September 2019 22: 02
        +2
        By the way, the Vietnamese did just that when they wanted to protect the object from American laser-guided bombs. They say it helped.
  27. Ascetic
    Ascetic 31 August 2019 21: 12
    0
    To begin with, the American Hellfire helicopter missiles ("Hellfire") fly at distances up to eight kilometers as much as possible. Whereas now the Russian "Shell" is capable of destroying targets at a distance of up to twenty kilometers.

    Here is one clarification
    AH-64 Apache attack helicopter located outside the affected area of ​​the Shell-C1 simulator (behind an elevation about 490 meters high), managed to launch Spike NLOS, which successfully hit the target
    .
    This is a melee range, the only question is. and on horseradish short-range air defense systems in such obviously disadvantageous tactical areas and positions alone and without additional. means of detection, let’s say medium-range air defense radars that this Apache didn’t close to the probable suppression of the object from the hill?
    if there is no other possibility, as in Sochi during the Olympics, where the Shell was the main means of near detection and cover, then additional detection and suppression tools are used such undoubtedly
    advanced
    weapons of destruction like Israeli and American missiles
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 22: 07
      +1
      So the same elevation of 498 m will prevent a helicopter spreading on the ground from a radar of high power.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 31 August 2019 22: 24
        0
        Quote: 3danimal
        So the same elevation of 498 m will prevent a helicopter spreading on the ground from a radar of high power.

        As an option PMU and UAV AWACS
        Range of direct visibility depending on the height of the placement of detection means, excluding the terrain


        Echelon air defense with drone drone

        The use of a quadrocopter type DRLO UAV and a long duration DFLO UAV will allow you to create a dense radar terrain coverage and ensure target targeting to missiles with ARGSN and IR GOS at maximum range.

        Presumably, two short-range air defense systems should have one car with a quadrocopter-type AWAC UAV or two cars for four air defense systems. The medium range air defense system should include two vehicles with a quadrocopter type UAV. Two long-range drone UAVs should relate to long-range air defense systems.

        During the period of danger or in the event of the start of hostilities, long-flight UAVs must carry out continuous patrols over the positions of the air defense missile system. Quadrocopter-type UAVs from the short- and medium-range air defense missile systems should be on carrier vehicles in readiness for an immediate launch. If an air threat is detected, a quadrocopter type UAV should be launched within a few minutes.

        [media = https: //topwar.ru/157292-obespechenie-raboty-zrk-po-nizkoletjaschim-celjam-bez-privlechenija-aviacii-vvs.html]
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 31 August 2019 22: 35
          -1
          Your UAVs will be easily shot down by turbolasers of imperial fighters;))
          Something pulled me into fiction ... - So you too!
          There are no unmanned AWACS in metal and series.
          To cite an article on the prospects (indefinite remoteness) of air defense as a counterargument is not correct.
          1. Zeev Zeev
            Zeev Zeev 31 August 2019 23: 26
            0
            Well, in fact, UAVs with radars have been around for a long time.
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 31 August 2019 23: 35
              -1
              But here we are talking about machines that can direct missiles, full-fledged AWACS ... quadrocopter type.
              I remember a video walking on YouTube where a couple of fancy mega quadrocopters take out the US airbase from 20-30mm Gatling)
              1. Zeev Zeev
                Zeev Zeev 1 September 2019 08: 45
                0
                I will not say about full-fledged AWACS, but it will not be a big problem to transfer data from the same Global Hawk to any platform with missiles.
                1. 3danimal
                  3danimal 1 September 2019 10: 25
                  -1
                  True, it remains for the Russian Federation only to create its Global Hawk. )
                  The main message is that with modern weapons and the right tactics, aviation will open any ground-based air defense.
                  1. Zeev Zeev
                    Zeev Zeev 1 September 2019 12: 02
                    0
                    And not only ground.
          2. Ascetic
            Ascetic 1 September 2019 00: 08
            0
            Quote: 3danimal
            Your UAVs will be easily shot down by turbolasers of imperial fighters;))
            Something pulled me into fiction ... - So you too!

            By the way, now it’s not science fiction, he was at the MAKS in Zhukovsky, the same Sirius, though he will go into production in five years .... He is positioned as a civilian, because Kronstadt does not have a military license, and the idea is not bad from small tactical UAVs to long-range discoveries connected into a single network.
            And about the shoot down, immediately find yourself, which is not good for the main task of opening the enemy’s air defense systems.
            1. 3danimal
              3danimal 1 September 2019 05: 27
              -1
              Radars detect the RTR aircraft, and then launch the MALD'o-v to force them to get involved in the work, imposing the PRR on themselves.
  28. rocket757
    rocket757 31 August 2019 21: 48
    -1
    Here is interesting, but what and whose air defense is being discussed now, dismantled by the bones, such as an easy target for any "SPRITES" and other "JAY SEVONOV" ???
    If not ours, or at least not Chinese, there is nothing to discuss and no one!
    And if the type is like us! Then our shells do not "run" alone, if Ch-T-O!
    Besides, an integrated, SYSTEM ABM defense, like ours, is a lot of all sorts of things that "sees" behind the hillock and in space! And it has in its composition a lot of things, right up to "soldiers with juices" !!!
    Not everything and not everywhere is covered, but it is still! We have a very long border, but the consequences of betraying the former, lessening the present, cannot be overcome so far!
    Therefore, no one is rummaging for SCARY!
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 22: 13
      +2
      Hatchery.
      A complexly built air defense system is planned for a breakthrough by appropriate forces and means, tactics.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 31 August 2019 22: 57
        0
        Yes, yes, but someone who is ready for a breakthrough in systemic air defense is ready. One that is not a pity.
        That’s right out of the blue, so far no one actually has completed air defense?
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 31 August 2019 23: 30
          0
          See the comment below on this topic.
          Without air patrols, hacking "ground" air defense is a matter of a large number of equipment.
  29. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 24
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: svp67
    Hellfire rockets (Hellfire)
    Wrong translation into Russian, into Russian it should be translated as "Fire Geeena"

    The author is not at all in the subject. Helfair comes from Helicopter and Fire. That is, "Helicopter" and "Shoot".

    It's even inconvenient for you, you would have bought some phrasebook for ten hryvnias, it says that in the word "helicopter" there is one L, and in the word "hell" there are two: "hell". Or don't you know how "hellfire" is spelled in English?
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 31 August 2019 22: 45
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      it says that in the word "helicopter" there is one L, and in the word "hell" there are two: "hell". Or don't you know how "hellfire" is spelled in English?

      I agree. Hellfire (helibornе, Laser, Fire and Forget - helicopter, with laser CH, "fire and forget" is the exact name backronym abbreviations translated from English. like hellish hell or flame. Hence, such a holivar ... the second letter L in the name of the rocket means-Laser. I already had a dispute about this with the same professor . a couple of years ago lol
  30. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 26
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Hatchery.
    A complexly built air defense system is planned for a breakthrough by appropriate forces and means, tactics.

    In-in, and the outfit of chil and means is required not at all toy. And there will be losses if air defense is built. And if, besides air defense, there is still someone, then you can get the places of basing
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 22: 42
      0
      The outfit of forces and assets also involves striking at targets capable of shelling basing places. Who have their own air defense.
      Losses will be, but minimal, with proper planning. Having superiority in carriers and the WTO (the actual saturation of troops with a large number of troops, the experience of its use), this is quite feasible.
  31. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 30
    0
    Quote: rocket757
    Here is interesting, but what and whose air defense is being discussed now, dismantled by the bones, such as an easy target for any "SPRITES" and other "JAY SEVONOV" ???
    If not ours, or at least not Chinese, there is nothing to discuss and no one!
    And if the type is like us! Then our shells do not "run" alone, if Ch-T-O!
    Besides, an integrated, SYSTEM ABM defense, like ours, is a lot of all sorts of things that "sees" behind the hillock and in space! And it has in its composition a lot of things, right up to "soldiers with juices" !!!
    Not everything and not everywhere is covered, but it is still! We have a very long border, but the consequences of betraying the former, lessening the present, cannot be overcome so far!
    Therefore, no one is rummaging for SCARY!

    The cheerful commentators simply did not read the article, it clearly says "the carriers still need to reach the launch line in one piece" :-)
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 31 August 2019 23: 09
      +1
      The whole discussion revolves around individual pieces of someone’s air defense there. That is, a low-intensity conflict ...... i.e. someone is missing something! In this case, the outcome of the confrontation depends on many third-party factors! It is impossible to predict them, so the essays will be skewed, more like someone’s Wishlist.
  32. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 32
    0
    Quote: yfast
    And if you attach cartridges with a smoke screen to the Shell, maybe it will not be visible in the optics and the thermal imager?
    And if the car also drives off automatically, firing off these checkers?


    First, it is necessary that senior comrades of missiles do not send into the IS-eye seeker
  33. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 35
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    You misunderstood: we are talking about the fact that when you find a target in a sub-radar radar, you don’t have to jump. Rockets fly with a climb to the side of the target and homing.

    Well, would you rather look at how Hellfire starts and at what distance from the mask the carrier must be in order to fly over the mask. And the sleeve is still sticking out ddna nvd mask is very noticeable
  34. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 56
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    The outfit of forces and assets also involves striking at targets capable of shelling basing places. Who have their own air defense.
    Losses will be, but minimal, with proper planning. Having superiority in carriers and the WTO (the actual saturation of troops with a large number of troops, the experience of its use), this is quite feasible.

    Air defense is what they do to make the required outfit great. And "capable targets" still need to be revealed.
    For an example, look at AUG: there, with a defensive configuration of an outfit for shock operations, there really is no longer any.
    And do not forget that, for example, in the same AUG during a shock operation, one third of the order are jammers
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 31 August 2019 23: 27
      0
      Tell us how great the losses of the attacking side will be if the RTR aircraft determines the position of the air defense means (from a distance exceeding the detection), the radars will force dozens of MALD'o-v to work, and then attack from a small height and distance of 50-60 km (Earth curvature in help) a hundred HARM'o-in.
  35. E.S.
    E.S. 31 August 2019 22: 59
    0
    Quote: Ascetic
    Quote: E.S.
    it says that in the word "helicopter" there is one L, and in the word "hell" there are two: "hell". Or don't you know how "hellfire" is spelled in English?

    I agree. Hellfire (helibornе, Laser, Fire and Forget - helicopter, with laser CH, "fire and forget" is the exact name backronym abbreviations translated from English. like hellish hell or flame. Hence, such a holivar ... the second letter L in the name of the rocket means-Laser. I already had a dispute about this with the same professor . a couple of years ago lol

    Here, in general, clownery, in fact, on the one hand "forget", on the other hand "laser" should be illuminated. By the way, the guidance method is very, very vulnerable to deliberate interference
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 1 September 2019 21: 19
      +1
      Quote: E.S.

      Here, in general, clownery, in fact, on the one hand "forget", on the other hand "laser" should be illuminated. By the way, the guidance method is very, very vulnerable to deliberate interference


      Only such a non-clown. as you probably never knew about that. that the backlight laser has not been working all the time since the launch of the rocket. But only the last second and a half. And you do not have time to put no obstacles. neither shoot the curtains, nor leave even 3-5 meters ...

      Do not consider enemies fools.
      Wow.
      since 1941 - only 3 generations of people have changed, and again they got stuck. Again haters. foolish enemies again ...
  36. Olfred
    Olfred 31 August 2019 23: 33
    +2
    Do not mislead the author - "Experienced multipurpose guided missile JAGM" will have a range of 28 km, and hell fire will have a range of 1-2 km more ...
    [media = http: //rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/jagm/jagm.shtml] hi
  37. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 01: 00
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Tell us how great the losses of the attacking side will be if the RTR aircraft determines the position of the air defense means (from a distance exceeding the detection), the radars will force dozens of MALD'o-v to work, and then attack from a small height and distance of 50-60 km (Earth curvature in help) a hundred HARM'o-in.

    RTR will detect the position of one of the radar antennas for detection and tracking. Let’s beat a hundred Harmas, I’ll look with pleasure. Or it may happen that she doesn’t even find her
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 1 September 2019 10: 31
      -1
      Other radars will have to get involved in the process, because they will see the F-16 / F15 air squadron approaching on it, which MALDs will represent (you were inattentive).
      And next - a wave of PRR.
  38. dolfi1
    dolfi1 1 September 2019 01: 03
    +5
    I just don’t understand who was going to attack anyone? Someone thinks that the States will attack Russia? request Why do they need it, they are kamikaze? And if not, then what about Syria and its Shell? So in Syria there is not and is unlikely to be a layered air defense system in the near future. I even think that it will not exist at all, why is it for Russia? You, in order to return all your investments, need Syria depending on Russia. Well, if you do not want to give Syria to the Turks or Iranians.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 1 September 2019 10: 35
      -1
      Purely hypothetically: locally, a base in Syria could be knocked out without problems. There are enough airfields around.
      Another thing is that this will entail further escalation. And they have no goals to start a war with the Russian Federation.
      But the mercenaries can be beaten again if they ask for it.
    2. 3danimal
      3danimal 1 September 2019 10: 41
      -1
      What does it mean to give? Or "keep it"?
      And the Iranians, I am sure, were the side that convinced the voluntary leadership of the Russian Federation to get into Syria.
  39. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 01: 03
    0
    Quote: Nestorovich
    Quote: E.S.
    Quote: Nestorovich
    Quote: E.S.
    I do not know what kind of "ATGM 3 generations with the GOS", but:
    Apache longbow must first discover the target with its sub-muzzle misunderstanding, after that jump, shoot, and only after that can run away

    so the fact of the matter is that the new generation allows you to receive external target designation, and the new GOS has a combined mode. It’s enough because of the obstacle to just shoot in the right direction ...

    Then it turns out "God from the car informed the location of the air defense system, we crept up and fired"
    But if the location is known from external target designation, then you can stupidly shoot Highmars for 300 km

    possible, but the system is cheaper, and the battlefield. Again, the flight time is minimal ...

    Yeah, moreover, the flight time to short-range air defense systems is many times greater than the flight time in the opposite direction and even from the next level air defense system
    1. Nestorovich
      Nestorovich 1 September 2019 03: 12
      +1
      Quote: E.S.
      Yeah, moreover, the flight time to short-range air defense systems is many times greater than the flight time in the opposite direction and even from the next level air defense system

      there are really a lot of scenarios, and not only all this is done to destroy air defense, the main thing is that the helicopter can provide instant support to the unit on the battlefield.
  40. morgan_67
    morgan_67 1 September 2019 09: 23
    +1
    "there is not the slightest opportunity even to come close to the above-mentioned ZRPK" - you tell Israel this.
  41. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 10: 22
    0
    Quote: dolfi1
    I just don’t understand who was going to attack anyone? Someone thinks that the States will attack Russia? request Why do they need it, they are kamikaze? And if not, then what about Syria and its Shell? So in Syria there is not and is unlikely to be a layered air defense system in the near future. I even think that it will not exist at all, why is it for Russia? You, in order to return all your investments, need Syria depending on Russia. Well, if you do not want to give Syria to the Turks or Iranians.


    Do you really think that the Syrian Shells are not integrated with the Syrian S-300s with the help of the corresponding air defense control system?
  42. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 10: 46
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Other radars will have to get involved in the process, because they will see the F-16 / F15 air squadron approaching on it, which MALDs will represent (you were inattentive).
    And next - a wave of PRR.


    Moving false targets and PRR have existed since Vietnam, tactics have been honed for decades. And recognition tools are also improving. Immit F-16 in all ranges can only full-sized flying F-16, then there is no need to seduce
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 1 September 2019 13: 14
      0
      Pull by the ears. I understand that the “reds” are omnipotent and all-powerful, it’s impossible to deceive them)
      Only in practice, everything comes out ... more complicated.
      In addition, tightly silent targets can be further explored by drones. Part of the strikes inflicted according to satellite intelligence by cruise missiles.
      You have to turn on. And catch the HARMs.
      In Vietnam, he worked from the Shrikes, seeing the attack, turn off the radar. New PRRs continue their flight to the last position of the target. If the Shell still manages to get away, then the radars of a larger complex will not be able to be quickly evacuated. And his loss is very sensitive.
      1. meandr51
        meandr51 1 September 2019 22: 22
        0
        So, it is necessary for every normal air defense system of inflatable heels with all the simulation electronics.
        1. 3danimal
          3danimal 2 September 2019 11: 58
          0
          Simulated electronics should work with the appropriate power at operating frequencies. And it will be the radar of Buka, S-400, Shell, etc. In smaller dimensions you will not create.
          Inflatable converge only against visual recognition from UAVs, photos from satellites.
  43. bronek
    bronek 1 September 2019 11: 28
    +2
    I don't understand why this is such a stir in the comments ?! What does the layout have to do with it? The Americans seized on the Israeli "variant" precisely because it works first-class in real combat. But "Shell", as it turned out, did not work. And on the face of the Western attitude to business, firstly: it is not a shame to borrow something from another, even if you are a superpower. Secondly: even taking into account the low combat effectiveness of the enemy's means, it is better to play it safe.
    1. meandr51
      meandr51 1 September 2019 22: 23
      0
      And what, the "eastern" do not borrow?
  44. I'm a colonel
    I'm a colonel 1 September 2019 11: 29
    +2
    A pointless article. That’s when they don’t break through, then you can let off pathos and overcome all the cracks, but for now nothing more than complacency)))
  45. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 13: 43
    0
    Quote: 3danimal
    Pull by the ears. I understand that the “reds” are omnipotent and all-powerful, it’s impossible to deceive them)
    Only in practice, everything comes out ... more complicated.
    In addition, tightly silent targets can be further explored by drones. Part of the strikes inflicted according to satellite intelligence by cruise missiles.
    You have to turn on. And catch the HARMs.
    In Vietnam, he worked from the Shrikes, seeing the attack, turn off the radar. New PRRs continue their flight to the last position of the target. If the Shell still manages to get away, then the radars of a larger complex will not be able to be quickly evacuated. And his loss is very sensitive.

    A drone can go bad without turning on the radar. Tactical techniques and technological means have undergone significant changes since Vietnam, which is adequately reflected even in open sources.
    But in practice, it turns out that in air defense there is a complete dialectic and both sides draw conclusions from current events.
    For example, after the downing of the IL-20, events occurred, and after these events there was no new destruction of the Carapace. And there was an attack on the means of detection of the glory of the CPSU and the Second Drunkenness of the First President of the Russian Federation. Apparently this museum exhibit was somehow stopping fans from shooting from someone else's airspace
  46. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 14: 12
    0
    Quote: kiril1246
    Quote: E.S.
    Someone tell the opponent what the integration of detection tools is

    Does your integration of detection systems allow you to determine the coordinates of the air of your own reconnaissance aircraft before launching an air defense missile?


    Now lets.
    Hello to the gallant defenders of the Israeli sky, who have flunked their own drone!
    1. SovAr238A
      SovAr238A 1 September 2019 21: 22
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      Quote: kiril1246
      Quote: E.S.
      Someone tell the opponent what the integration of detection tools is

      Does your integration of detection systems allow you to determine the coordinates of the air of your own reconnaissance aircraft before launching an air defense missile?


      Now lets.
      Hello to the gallant defenders of the Israeli sky, who have flunked their own drone!

      And why so tactfully left the IL-20? Own rocket?
  47. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 15: 37
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Klingon
    the Arabs do not have such a highly echeloned defense, and discipline is lame, to leave the fighting compartment to offer evening prayer or to drink tea during the fighting, it’s necessary to be very wise

    there are no tales of layered air defense in Russia either ..
    The author's message The shell cannot be destroyed.
    In addition to some perplexity, it does not cause anything, especially against the background of the real fact of the destruction of at least 2's.

    That does not exist! And the Crimean bridge also does not exist, so no one will bomb it!
  48. E.S.
    E.S. 1 September 2019 22: 23
    0
    Quote: SovAr238A
    Quote: E.S.
    Quote: kiril1246
    Quote: E.S.
    Someone tell the opponent what the integration of detection tools is

    Does your integration of detection systems allow you to determine the coordinates of the air of your own reconnaissance aircraft before launching an air defense missile?


    Now lets.
    Hello to the gallant defenders of the Israeli sky, who have flunked their own drone!

    And why so tactfully left the IL-20? Own rocket?

    Because after the shooting down, events known to many (possibly, except for you) took place. So I wrote the word "tepep"
  49. vlados
    vlados 1 September 2019 23: 47
    0
    The author should follow the events in Syria, and not read the dull performance characteristics of the Shell. Paper suffers, as they say
  50. E.S.
    E.S. 2 September 2019 02: 22
    0
    Quote: Clever man
    I’m interested in something else, will soon be on duty with the s500 and then with the s600 ?! And maybe in a couple of decades, air defense missiles will become intercontinental range, will the air force die out? How are battleships?

    You missed the most important thing - ICBMs have long served as an air defense system in both the USSR and the Russian Federation.
    That's something no one is bombing