Who will give the troops a connection?

Probably, no one will argue with the fact that communications have been one of the most important components of the modern army for decades. Even during the Second World War, the one who could provide the best information exchange between headquarters and units and units received a huge advantage. And vice versa, in the case of misinformation of the enemy, or a violation of his communication communications, the latter was not just to get out of the situation.

In general, nothing has changed over the past 80 years. Communication is still important, even more so, in light of the development of electronic warfare, the capabilities of electronic reconnaissance and suppression, communication is becoming even more important.

Unfortunately, the state of communications in the modern Russian army is simply depressing. Especially at the very bottom, at the company-platoon-squad level. It is no better any higher, but the lower the brigade’s headquarters, the sadder it gets.

On the one hand, the time of multi-kilogram lamp-shaped coffins such as "Astra" and "Sail" is a thing of the past. And to replace them?

But with the change, everything is not very good. It seems like there is a "Sagittarius", "Aqueduct" ... But just that, "sort of like." Having visited more than one part of the most diverse branches of the army, from the RBK to the motorized rifle, I have not seen new systems in any of them. None.

Moreover, it cannot be said that I did not see Sagittarius and the Aqueduct. Of course I did. It is clear where, on the forum "ARMY- ...". There they were calmly present as exhibits, along with promises that "just about, no further than tomorrow" these systems will already appear in the troops.

It is possible that in the near future they will really appear where they are so needed. In the meantime ... For the time being, in the hands of officers and sergeants of the Russian army of various branches of the armed forces are at best "Baofengs" produced by the PRC.

There he is, so modestly at hand ... I didn’t shoot specifically, there was no reason, but it was not my fault that they were at every step.

Having asked the question to more competent comrades, in response I received a very comprehensive answer. Yes, new communications systems are coming to the troops. But so far they are categorically lacking, therefore, in the first place, units are supplied that are “on the cutting edge,” respectively, officers are forced to purchase for themselves what is more convenient for them.

I don’t dare to judge how much the units and subunits of the 20 Army are “not important”, why, in fact, they have not reached the modern communication systems. If from my point of view, then the 20 Army is located on the border with the most inadequate of the neighbors, from which you can expect anything you want. And it is precisely here that the latest complexes, including communications, should be armed.

Alas, the Kenwoods and Baofengs are our everything. Unfortunately.

Apparently, “Sagittarius” and “Aqueducts” are the destiny of “court units” somewhere near Moscow. And on the border with Ukraine, the "Chinese" will easily come up.

Moreover, again, the military budget is not straining at all. Radio stations are bought by personnel in online stores or specialized trading establishments.

As you like, but the fact that officers and sergeants buy radio stations for their own use is nonsense. Moreover, buy what? That's right, walkie-talkies of civilian range. Which anyone can listen to, make any conclusions, not to mention the fact that all this is completely unreliable and simply insulting.

Of course, we can assume that in the hands of “Argut”. Can.

I did not use the above systems such as "Aqueduct", but I was able to evaluate the "Russian" product under the brand name "Argut". In 2015, I had such an opportunity to test with the ability to keep digital Argut-77. He left the old “five” from “Baofeng” in the end, because she beat “Argut” in all respects. Further, cleaner, more reliable.

Apparently, because 77 was not taken root and was discontinued.

But these are all the nuances. In general, the very presence of civilian radio stations in the troops is nonsense of inflamed imagination. Okay, the LDNR militia, everything went to work there, but the Russian army on Chinese civilian radios from the "aliexpress" ... Sorry, I have no other word for "disgrace".

But what is the most interesting? the most interesting thing is that a reaction to our critical articles may well follow. They read us there ... I just think that it is unlikely that the expected normal communication systems with channels closed from unnecessary ears will flood the troops. Rather, the "Chinese" will be banned.

Although how to ban them? Then, in general, everyone will be left without this very bond, damned and blessed. And what to do?

In general, I very poorly imagine the large-scale military operations performed by our units, where the communication is assigned to civilian "Chinese". Of course, we can say that this is a cunning plan. That the enemy will interfere on the official ranges, and we, so cunning, will issue commands to civilian ones and we will defeat everyone.

But something like that is doubtful ...

In the meantime, all these means of communication will creep to the signalmen in the troops, they will not understand what they use (more precisely, understand, but how!), Hiding the Baofeng and Kenwood from their prying eyes (thank you for not Motorola ), and pretend to use the old ancient coffins with might and main.

Incidentally, an important aspect: I understand that some museum antiquity stands in parts. And perhaps you can even use it. It is clear that a normal officer or contract sergeant will really take what is convenient for him to work with. That is, a light and reliable Chinese walkie-talkie.

But here comes a check, say, from the district headquarters. Naturally, a team like "remove the Chinese!" And from the warehouses and kapterok these ancient monsters will be removed. And here the whole question is exclusively in the ability to use them. I think that the level will not be expectedly advanced.

Here is such a not very beautiful situation. Of course, when I see in the hands of the officers these same P-168-0.5 WILL be the Aqueduct, I will scream with joy and with great pleasure I will create a whole report on this subject.

Unless, of course, I will be destined to see this pleasant moment. But while I live - I hope. I hope that communication in our army will be not only in words, on paper and through the TA-57 wires.

I really hope so.

Comments

[Carib]

The Japanese have normal digital, encrypted and automobile and wearable, and not insanely expensive. By the way, they are now in the police, the Ministry of Emergencies, an ambulance, so that all sorts of cunning and criminals would not overhear, otherwise they can interfere with the work by throwing a car next to the control ...
All the same, it’s more difficult to eavesdrop. True, I think the manufacturers are against it, that kind of money will flow away .... But our plants do not have microcircuits for such stations !!!

[Civil]

I thought 1941 remained in the last century, and communication is still there. Amazed.

[whack]

Alas, the Kenwoods and Baofengs are our everything. Unfortunately.....
the bearded in the ATS Walkie Talkie Motorola DP4400. at our Baofeng. that’s all I wanted to say.

[Pedrodepackes]

hiding from prying eyes "Baofengi" and "Kenwood" (thanks for not being "Motorola" at least),

and Motorola were in 205th on the first Chechen (at the end and after the withdrawal), and, judging by the numbering and strict transfer of the shift, officially. "Motorola" even became a household name, any communication on the radio was called "I'll give you a motorola." I was always surprised at how much easier it is to set up and contact the bourgeois stations and how hemorrhoids it is on our "gadgets"

[Lopatov]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

and Motorola were in the 205th at the first Chechen (at the end and after the withdrawal), moreover, judging by the numbering and strict transfer of the shift, officially.

Not quite officially.
Trophies
Although they could be led through the bundles, so that extra problems would not arise.

From there, in fact, this topic went. The second is similar. Although the Chechens were much poorer.

And then, having tried it, they began to buy for their own, because it’s convenient.

[Pedrodepackes]

Quote: Spade

Not quite officially.
Trophies
Although they could be led through the bundles, so that extra problems would not arise.

I won’t guess, because I don’t know for sure, but! in the brigade there was also trunk communication, also on imported gadgets, but this can not be provided with trophies. So .... I don’t know

[Dante Alighieri]

But our "gadgets" do an excellent job of conducting interrogation "with addiction" without causing physical harm, which is where the expression "confess in TA-pe" came from. It is clear that this functionality was identified by "users" already during operation, and not provided from the factory, but still ...
And so, of course, the last century. I have a grandfather, and he went from a radio operator of the 1st Guards Cavalry Corps on the Smolensk land to the head of the radio station of the 654th Infantry Regiment of the 148th Infantry Division on the 1st Ukrainian Front, if he were alive, he would be very surprised that we were at 21 In the 2th century, we still use wired communication systems. No, I all understand that in a certain sense we thereby protect ourselves from a technically more advanced enemy, by the fact that he is difficult to adapt to simpler and less perfect mechanics from his "height of flight", however, we lose to him in this case. An analogy can be made, as if eminent mathematicians were suddenly offered to count in a column - for sure, mathematicians would be confused by such arrogance. However, be that as it may, even some overwhelming candidate of mathematical sciences is not at all equal to a student of the XNUMXnd grade of elementary school.
Well, the fact that communication on the modern battlefield is often more important than tanks and aircraft, we had the opportunity to observe repeatedly: both in life and on the pages of works of art. Who has not read Gleb Boborov and his "The Age of the Stillborn" - I advise. In particular, the chapter on the "Sutogan Massacre", in which, in my opinion, was the best possible demonstration of how even a technically and numerically superior enemy, in the absence of high-quality and stable communication, becomes an easy target for a small, but motivated and close-knit militia.

[Lopatov]

Quote: Dante

But our "gadgets" do an excellent job of conducting interrogation "with addiction."

The mortars on the firing two wires from TApik to the hand of the radiotelephone operator were wrapped so that he would not miss a call from headquarters at night. That is, add. taps from telephone terminals
Around-the-clock combat duty with limited personnel.

[ccsr]

Quote: Dante

if he were alive, I would be very surprised that in the 21st century we still use wired communication systems.

He would hardly be surprised, because he knows what a "radio silence mode" is, when all radio facilities are prohibited from broadcasting. And the good old inductor apparatus remains for communication ...

[3danimal]

Competition, the development of the economy, technology. We need to ask ourselves the question: why does it go easily for them, and for us ... as is?
Sad of course.

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

We need to ask ourselves the question: why does it go easily for them, and for us ... as is?

Because the military leadership sees that the main enemy - the United States, NATO and China (you can arrange in any order yourself) we can destroy only with a nuclear strike, and therefore no one tries to bother with tactical means of communication. Well, do not forget that since the days of the USSR, the Ministry of Defense has a huge number of trunk communication cables, and plus new fiber-optic lines, so we better provide secrecy in preparing for a nuclear strike with wired communications. And we will no longer have battles of the type of the Great Patriotic War with fronts of hundreds of kilometers - study the experience of Syria and how the videoconferencing works.

[3danimal]

But in local conflicts and in everyday service, let our military be like rogues from third countries?

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

But in local conflicts and in everyday service, let our military be like rogues from third countries?

The Russian leadership has already demonstrated in Syria that our military will no longer attack with regiments and divisions, which means that the need for tactical communications is falling. A special communications system was created for special forces even in the Soviet Army, where the equipment was at the level of the best world models - for example, our correspondent radio stations in the parts of the Special Forces were the best in the world. I think that even now we have not forgotten how to produce such a technique.
In peacetime, the need for tactical link radio stations is insignificant - only in exercises it is used in full.

[3danimal]

Means of communication are always needed - if we are talking about the good organization and interaction of the military branches.
Or is there no need for air support at the request of, say, a battalion? Legible and without a high probability of interception.

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

Means of communication are always needed - if we are talking about the good organization and interaction of the military branches.

Yes, come on - the Strategic Missile Forces parts have their own communication system, and in the overwhelming form they are wired, and not depending on anyone. And this is important for us - this is the only type of armed forces that, together with the nuclear submarine fleet, ensures our security. So do not bother much with what does not affect the outcome of the global war.

[3danimal]

In addition to global, there will inevitably be local conflicts.
Your arguments are “from the position of the poor,” IMHO. "Why spend money if the main thing is global war."

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

In addition to global, there will inevitably be local conflicts.

Do you think that we only need to crawl into any local conflict, as in Syria? Why - can you formulate sane for what we need it for? Or do you believe that brave warriors from the Armed Forces of Ukraine will climb into our territory - do not tell.
And always remember that Putin does not deny the use of nuclear weapons, but their power is divided into different categories, up to wearable nuclear weapons.

[3danimal]

I understand your position, maybe it's not bad. Yes, and cheaper at the same time)

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

I understand your position, maybe it's not bad. Yes, and cheaper at the same time)

It is the economic calculation that we must always take into account so as not to let the budget go on all sorts of military toys, which are of little use, but those who want to impose them on the military are always in large numbers. One story with "Buran" cost us what - that's how they ruined the country's economy, and then the Communist Party was accused of it.

[3danimal]

On the other hand, much more expensive “toys” are bought into the troops. Normal interaction (and therefore efficiency) will be weakened due to poor communication or interception (here you can generally be left without equipment).

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

On the other hand, much more expensive “toys” are bought into the troops. Normal interaction (and therefore efficiency) will be weakened due to poor communication or interception (here you can generally be left without equipment).

I will try to briefly state the essence of the problem, which was unsuccessfully solved in Soviet times. Then we had two armies of different types - one small, representing the strategic link of the armed forces, and the second army traditional for waging a non-nuclear war.
The trouble is that the second army was devouring resources immeasurably, and, moreover, it took a couple of million men of military age from the national economy who had to be fed and shod at the expense of the rest of the country's citizens.
All attempts to reduce the army of the second type ended unsuccessfully - this is a separate topic for discussion. But now we must take into account the experience of the past, so as not to repeat those mistakes, and have what all the countries of the world will be afraid of, but for little money. That is why it is nevertheless necessary to decide how we will fight, and why we should participate in local conflicts if we are very few and we have the most territories in the world.

[3danimal]

"Little money" always means the cheapness of "cannon fodder." Numerous and doubtfully effective. Nevertheless, significant investments are required to maintain the “second cheap army”. Question: is it worth it?
There was a 1991 Iraq experience with a large and "loose" army. Result?
The territory claims, of the strong, only China.
Against those smaller, a relatively compact professional army is enough. What will the “military commissariats and co”, who have to look for another use from their homes, fight until the last)

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

There was a 1991 Iraq experience with a large and "loose" army. Result?

What we care about these countries is for us — we are at a different level of armaments.

Quote: 3danimal

The territory claims, of the strong, only China.

How are you going to fight him with conventional weapons with excellent means of communication, let's say they appeared in our country?

Quote: 3danimal

What will the "military commissars and co" fight to the last,

Come on, it’s only recently money from the budget has been sent, and five or seven years ago everything was horrible, and those who served under Serdyukov remember this very well.

[3danimal]

Such is the fact that China is holding back (and will continue) strategic nuclear forces.
And the prepared army of smaller numbers will be optimal.
And a bunch of young people who are completely not interested in the service will go to work, bringing more benefit to the economy.

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

Such is the fact that China is holding back (and will continue) strategic nuclear forces.

Not only China, but the whole world - I’m trying to explain to you from the first words in this topic.

Quote: 3danimal

And a bunch of young people who are completely not interested in the service will go to work, bringing more benefit to the economy.

With this I completely agree. But the question was about the mass production of tactical means of communication, and I am afraid that we simply won’t extend it in order to overtake world leaders. So we need to choose something from the worst option for us. But how - let those decide. who is responsible for the security of the country.

[3danimal]

We cannot destroy; there is no question of victory. It will be a mutual defeat.

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

We cannot destroy; there is no question of victory. It will be a mutual defeat.

They know this better than us, that's why they look at us with apprehension, realizing that it’s better not to provoke us.

[3danimal]

So here it is - our strength lies in ignorance of the probable ... local population ?? The more brainwashed ignoramuses, the better?
When he, the scribe, comes, it will not be easier for anyone. And the surviving Russians will gnaw at each other for canned food and leftover medicine.
“They” can start (and obviously start) the arms race, having 10+ times the superiority in the economy and budgets. And the poorer militarist runs the risk of going broke.
By the beginning and mid-20s, they are preparing to substantially dilute the share of the Russian Federation in hydrocarbons in the European market. Without THEIR technologies of oilfield services (oil production), by the same time, production decline in the Russian Federation is expected (20-40%). Result? - Ruin, extreme dilapidation of infrastructure, massive accidents. Why even fight ??
In addition, the basis of the economy is the sale of hydrocarbons, the foreign exchange earnings for which current imports are acquired (whose share is very large). And plans for the "destruction" of customers - akin to the desire to block the air supply hose. I am not talking about reciprocal-strikes from them.
So bravado is inappropriate here.

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

So bravado is inappropriate here.

It's not about bravado, but that our civilization does not disappear or dissolve in cultures alien to us.
And nuclear power is the key to our survival, because it gives it the right to dictate what we need, and not our opponents in this world.

[3danimal]

We need high oil prices and to be willing to buy it. Can we dictate this ?? The Union couldn’t.
And ahead - a decline in sales. Can we change this? So that we are given technology and equipment? To refuse to buy LNG and American oil? (The capacities for its transfer to tankers will be ready in 2-3 years).
They do not pretend to the United States. Unlike China, which in the 19th century, the Far East and part of Siberia were "overcome" by threats and pressure. (Actually, he is already mastering Siberian resources well)

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

We need high oil prices and to be willing to buy it. Can we dictate this ?? The Union couldn’t.

This is not true - in the future, gas prices are more important for us than oil prices.
And we do not need to dictate anything - the XNUMXst century will be gas, not oil.

Quote: 3danimal

And ahead - a decline in sales.

Forecasts by experts suggest the opposite - gas consumption will only increase. And this is justified by the fact that billions of Chinese and Indians want to live better and better, and they need electricity for comfort. We also do not forget about Africa - there are already several states where more than 100 million people live and they also need air conditioners.

Quote: 3danimal

They do not pretend to the United States. Unlike China, which in the 19th century, the Far East and part of Siberia were "overcome" by threats and pressure. (Actually, he is already mastering Siberian resources well)

We should generally not give a damn about all the dreams of Americans and Chinese - thanks Stalin and Khrushchev gave us such an opportunity. The main thing is not to lose leadership in the nuclear field. And this is the key to our survival, and you can simply laugh at your speculations on the price of oil - there is still no alternative source of cheap energy.

[3danimal]

Our main market is Europe. And there, the Russian Federation will lose its share, losing part of the European market to American LNG. Corresponding capacities for its reception and liquefaction already exist.
China has already sold a huge amount of gas at a very reduced price. Having quarreled with Western countries, they went “to make friends” with a huge (economically, population) southeastern neighbor who did not fail to take advantage of the advantageous position. Further more.
Discussions about the non-alternative nature of hydrocarbon energy are similar to mantras. Putin regretted the worms - “it's dangerous to build windmills”. Renewable development will continue.

[ccsr]

Quote: 3danimal

Our main market is Europe.

For now - yes, but this will not last long, and China with its population will consume more.

Quote: 3danimal

China has already sold a huge amount of gas at a very reduced price.

This is a very profitable project, because they tied their consumption to us for a long time, and having got a taste, they themselves will ask us to lay more gas pipelines. Apparently you do not know the main method of Western marketing - first we sell cheaply, and then we recoup on other contracts.

Quote: 3danimal

Discussions about the non-alternative nature of hydrocarbon energy are similar to mantras.

I just do not think that new sources of energy will not appear. That's why we need to sell as much as possible what we have in abundance.

Quote: 3danimal

Renewable development will continue.

I do not argue with these. But not the fact that hydrocarbons will not be used as conventional raw materials for the chemical industry.

[3danimal]

The profit share in the Chinese contract is minimal. And in the future they will seek the maximum discount. Do not miss your benefit, well done. They will try to tie us stronger to their imports. Only the Russian Federation plays the role of a raw materials appendage, lower paid than in the case of Europe.
If no other energy appears, civilization is doomed. Fortunately, this is not so)
About hydrocarbons, like chemical raw materials, everything is true, but this will significantly change the role of exporting countries.

[3danimal]

And I talked about the impossibility of dictating prices and imposing a purchase.

[Gvardeetz77]

When I was a cadet at VVKUS, we were told about the promising complex "Aqueduct", which is about to be in the army. When he retired 6 years ago, of course he already came across in some places, but you can still say he was considered "promising" ....

[Alexander Ra]

Broad is my native country. From TA-57 to Dilbar.

[Nitarius]

yes there are difficulties .. what does it say .. when you arrive at the border ... and there to restore the electronic lamp .. get a pancake. Chinese tseshku .. and the tears begin to well up .... there simply is no other!
Yes, and the youth came into the army .. CRITICALLY NOT LITERATURE .... I just want to cry to horror! .

[a.hamster55]

Yes, we have trouble with this! So I had to work somehow in the national treasure, so after the army connection it is heaven and earth. Almost all cars have r / st on board. and hp to the master inclusive. Of course, this is different foreigners (Moto, Marconi). I especially liked trunking. In the meantime, we hope for grandfather communication methods.

[Mountain shooter]

The novel always "looks at the root" ... The lack of communications in the troops at the grassroots level (military bands, digital, with encryption) is a real problem ... Did you find money for "Armata"? How many walkie-talkies can money be made from one of these? Or "Aqueducts" are "kept" in warehouses? Do they really exist?

[lucul]

The novel always "looks at the root" ... The lack of communications in the troops at the grassroots level (military bands, digital, with encryption) is a real problem ... Did you find money for "Armata"? How many walkie-talkies can money be made from one of these? Or "Aqueducts" are "kept" in warehouses? Do they really exist?

I agree - I read the article and felt shame for the country ......
But Kudrin became an honorable Jew (did circumcision - not in the know), Chubais probably is also preparing ....

[Local from the Volga]

We also have our own excellent manufacturers of modern means of special communications!

[Sancho_SP]

1. That Kenwood is not Kenwood, but a Chinese fake like Baofeng. Real Kenwood costs like Motorola, that is, about 10 times more expensive than Chinese.
2. As a result, a Chinese walkie-talkie for 2-3 thousand rubles can easily buy at least every fighter.
3. Baofeng "dual-band" with the help of any novice amateur radio amateur "embroiders" and works in general in all VHF bands, somewhere from 90 to 500 MHz. It is clear that outside the “native” ranges for transmission, it works much worse, but, nevertheless, it is easily integrated into the structure of an unprotected army VHF band.
4. A range (that is, frequency) is generally no protection against wiretapping. With the help of the same “embroidered” baofeng, all unencrypted analog transmissions are wonderful.
5. Done correctly, we noticed above that the Ministry of Emergencies, the police, the railway, etc., use mainly either motorola / aikoms in the original, or the same motorola / aikoms, but with the sticker “wave”, “corsair” and etc. and “made in Russia” ".
6. Now all normal people are already leaving for digital communication. In fact, it is an analogue of cellular communication with its own repeater. Here and the ability to call an individual subscriber, and the ability to transfer gps coordinates, and the digitization of voice in itself is already good encryption.


So the conclusions are disappointing:

1. There is simply no production of means of communication in Russia. Even the simplest.
2. There are no digital systems technologies either. All new entry-level communications are analog, like 70 years ago. The frequencies are just a little different and the sizes.
3. To buy finished technology from Turkey or China and to localize production, for some reason, we are ashamed.

[Glory1974]

1. There is simply no production of means of communication in Russia. Even the simplest.

The internal troops, now the Russian Guard, are buying radio stations made in Russia, for example, "Erica". Yes, it may not be developed by us, but it is being done here in Izhevsk.
The navy uses our communications too. Therefore, "not in Russia" but with specific officials.

There is no digital technology either. All new entry-level communications are analogue, like 70 years ago. The frequencies are just a little different and the sizes.

Digital technologies have been used in the army since the 70s. Another thing is that they were not paid attention to by the generals, but the fact remains. New means of "entry-level", perhaps you wanted to say "tactical level of control" are made as the order is. The same ERIKA radio stations of certain modifications operate in digital mode with the ability to mask speech, there are radio stations with the ability to transmit telecode information, radio stations operating with digital security equipment are installed on the armor, for example, the R-173M, R-171M radio stations, not to mention the R complex -168, and they are developments of the 80s.
Therefore, it is not necessary to buy something from someone. Our engineers can do it themselves. The problem is the leadership, which does not know what it needs, and rushes constantly changing the TTZ for the industry in order to please "new trends".

[Sancho_SP]

Erica is the same "Wave", but not from a motorola, but from some nameless Chinese. In Izhevsk, only a sticker is glued, unfortunately.


As for the encryption prefixes, this is not a full-fledged digital connection. They do not increase the range of action.

[Glory1974]

In Izhevsk, they only stick a sticker, unfortunately

Not only the sticker is glued, but also assembled from components.

the same goes for encryption prefixes - this is not a full-fledged digital connection. They do not increase the range of action.

I will tell you more. The very fact of using encryption reduces the communication range compared to if the radio was operating in open mode.
But the fact of using the encoder suggests that this is digital communication. And digital communication is not so much the communication range as the signal quality. The communication range is more affected by the range of operating frequencies.

[Svetlana]

Quote: glory1974

Our engineers can do it themselves

In modern trunked radio stations, a broadband pseudo-random noise-like signal and a correlation radio reception based on knowledge of the pseudo-random sequence used in transmission are used to ensure noise immunity. A codeword with a length of, for example, 120 bits is subjected to error-correcting coding using optimal Reed-Solomon cyclic codes correcting several errors and erasures in the codeword, as well as a cyclic Golei code correcting 3 errors. For the design of such systems, knowledge of mathematics and technical means are needed - specialized computer programs such as Mathlab, PiCad. And in order to realize the silicon and graphene designed, it is necessary not to purchase obsolete ones, but to design factories for the production of the corresponding microcircuits with the 7-nm process technology similar to the AMD factory in Dresden.

[Glory1974]

Svetlana! I am delighted with your comment!
But I allow myself to note that trunk radio stations, due to a number of shortcomings, were not used in the troops. In the civilian sphere, the trunk also could not stand the competition with mobile communications.
Well, with the fact that you need to know mathematics and have your own production, you can not argue. Here I absolutely agree with you.

[Oleg Kovalchuk]

The trunk could not stand it? I don’t know where, but in St. Petersburg several digital trunk trunks are constantly alive, from time to time there are rustling subscribers.
Cellularity tends to fall in the extreme, and then if only together with the communication antennas it falls :-)

[Glory1974]

The trunk could not stand it?

the latest standards of trunk communication are practically no different from cellular communications. Thus, the trunk degenerated into a cellular one, no matter how it was called

Cellularity tends to fall in the extreme, and then if only together with the communication antennas it falls :-)

This is a common disadvantage of radio communications. But if they successfully fight it in the cellular, the physical limit in the trunk

[armata_armata]

1. There is simply no production of means of communication in Russia. Even the simplest.
2. There are no digital systems technologies either. All new entry-level communications are analog, like 70 years ago. The frequencies are just a little different and the sizes.
3. To buy finished technology from Turkey or China and to localize production, for some reason, we are ashamed.

In addition to assembling the radio stations themselves, it is also necessary to produce a component base for them, and here we have not just a failure, but the black hole from the collapse of the USSR, the industry has completely worn out. So to buy and localize production simply does not work out. Or, again, collect Chinese nouns in our factories from their kit and stick their stickers ...
And in order to revive the industry, the government should be interested, but this is not. Based on the statements of the guarantor, we only need to develop small-business

[Sancho_SP]

Even the assembly of Chinese components is already a decrease in the outflow of money abroad.

Plus, having an assembly of imported components, we at least create demand, under which in the future it will be possible to localize the production of complete sets.

[3danimal]

Stupid pride (and laziness) among a number of senior officials.

[a.hamster55]

Surely there is, but who will give them something to eat? I saw the battalion commander has one such thing, and with whom will he connect?

[Rusfaner]

"Aqueduct" is a "copied" radio station from Thales.
Sad I have been working with Motorola for 25 years and seeing what the signalmen in the Armed Forces use, I get upset - even the hopelessly outdated URC-200 is an unattainable dream for army signalmen.

[Glory1974]

"Aqueduct" is a "copied" radio station from Thales

The Thales company has existed since 2000. The aqueduct was put into service in 1998. Therefore, your remark is incorrect.
And the fact that the engineers do not reinvent the wheel, but use the already proven solutions does not mean that it is blown away from somewhere.
For example, the frequency synthesizer in the R-140 radio station was blown away. To hide it, the documentation on it was classified as "secret".

[Rusfaner]

"For example, the frequency synthesizer in the R-140 radio station was blown away ..." (c) - this is not about VO-71, by any chance?
Regarding the "Aqueduct": in the XNUMXs I had a chance to work with the Thalesites and study their HF station, then, with their submission, HF radio from the aforementioned family "fell into the hands" and was not only similar to the prototype, but the board with details was French.
As for "licking", then I am completely normal about this if it is beneficial to my big Motherland. Industrial espionage or honest purchase of licenses - this is permissible for engineers, if only ours won, will you agree?

[Glory1974]

"For example, the frequency synthesizer in the R-140 radio station was blown away ..." (c) - this is not about VO-71, by any chance?

about him darling. The secret in it was only that it was completely blown away from a sample stolen in the west.

Regarding the "Aqueduct": in the XNUMXs I had a chance to work with the Thalesites and study their HF station, then, with their submission, HF radio from the aforementioned family "fell into the hands" and was not only similar to the prototype, but the board with details was French.

At the end of the 80s, the Arbalet complex was developed and adopted in the USSR. In connection with the well-known events, it was not brought to mind, and the fact that the main production remained in Ukraine, the territory of a foreign state, put an end to its further improvement.
They urgently began to develop their own, this was the "Aqueduct". In the 90s it was fashionable to work with foreign contractors, and therefore they did everything that they could reach. I am not idealizing our connection, the trophies of the 08.08.08 war showed that we are still far from our competitors.

[svp67]

Quote: glory1974

and the fact that the head production remained in Ukraine,

But this is a manufacturer, but where did the developer stay?

Quote: glory1974

They urgently began to develop their own, this was the "Aqueduct"

The portable version of which the troops hate for many things and prefer to leave them lying in warehouses, and instead use the "Chinese" .... But this is a "nightmare". Everywhere there is information that the troops are provided with radio stations, but this is not so.

Quote: glory1974

I do not idealize our connection, the 08.08.08 war trophies have shown that we are still far from our competitors.

Well, what's the matter? That these radio stations are no longer able to simply "lick"?

[Glory1974]

Ukrainian developer, he stayed there.

The portable versions of which the troops hate for many things and prefer to leave them lying in warehouses, and instead use "Chinese" ..

There are many problems, both with reliability and with price. But they hate it, it's too much. We used them in parts, and they did not cause such emotions.

Well, what's the matter? That these radio stations are no longer able to simply "lick"?

many developers, manufacturers too. Therefore, in small batches of which only radio stations the troops were not delivered. Licking problems also does not arise, there is for every taste.
But it is precisely the communication system that is interconnected in all power structures that must be built. Therefore, while they adopted the communications system for operational use, the next in line is the tactical system. As they will, they will begin to rivet the appropriate means of communication.

[svp67]

Quote: glory1974

. But they hate it, it's too much.

Unfortunately, this is true. They don't even want to use the new Azarta, there are too many manufacturing defects

[ccsr]

Quote: svp67

But this is a manufacturer, but where did the developer stay?

As far as I know, the Voronezh NIIS was the developer of the "Arbalets" - at least for wearable means. At that time there was one of the leading designers of the "Arbalets" I.V. Koifman - an interesting personality ...

[UA3QHP]

Aqueducts are the same. The first prototypes appeared around 86-87.

[Rusfaner]

"... we are still far from our competitors." (from)
Yes, trouble! Could develop and do, but, unfortunately, there is no production of components. And our engineers are very good, maybe even the best. Till...
And for the Army, the loss of control will be worse than the lack of weapons.

[Brylevsky]

Quote: Local from the Volga

We also have our own excellent manufacturers of modern means of special communications!

We have everything, but not where it is needed.

[Glory1974]

the fact that officers and sergeants buy radio stations for their own use is nonsense. Moreover, buy what? That's right, walkie-talkies of civilian range.

Stunned! Violation of communication security of the 2 category, with the premise of the 1-th, which entails including criminal liability. Where is the counterintelligence? De chief of communications? Where is the chief of staff who are responsible for all this?
And where is the unit commander, who probably personally communicated to his subordinates the order of the Ministry of Defense "On the prohibition of the use of cell phones of certain classes, radio stations of an unspecified sample" in military units?
Where are the lists of communicating the "communications order" for this year, where is it written in black in Russian, at which frequencies you can work, and at which not?
But what kind of mess is this in military units? Hair stands on end!
Are those who say that Shoigu's passion goes to tank biathlon and the Patriot park are really right?
Yeah. With such discipline, or rather, with its complete absence, one can not conduct classes and exercises at all, it makes no sense.

[Dante Alighieri]

What do you propose to do? Using pigeon mail? If I do not have something and do not foresee, but here and now it is necessary to complete the task and this something or its analog is in the store, I will take it in the store. It is not for nothing that since the time of Peter I all the flaws in the supply of the soldiers have been made up independently. That is why the superiors look at all this "through their fingers".

[Glory1974]

What do you propose to do? Use pigeon mail? If I don’t have something and can’t expect it, but here and now it is necessary to fulfill the task and this is something or its analogue is in the store, I will take it in the store.

In this particular case, the battery officers have the necessary radios of the R-159 or R-168 type. They just think that it is difficult to carry it, it is easier to take a Chinese balalaika.
And if you buy a sleeping bag or some other piece of ammunition in the store, I agree with you. But if it is a radio station, then regardless of your desire to "do your best", there are orders, the implementation of which is mandatory, and according to them, use this technique is prohibited.

[ccsr]

Quote: glory1974

They just think that it is difficult to carry it, it is easier to take a Chinese balalaika.

This is the main motive. But we must not forget that the performance of this "balalaika" within the temperature range for military communication systems is a big question, especially in winter. Well, and remember about what can happen to her, when she hits or falls from different heights, otherwise we can find ourselves at a critical moment without any connection at all.

[eagle owl]

Incidentally, it was always amazing that in the Russian Federation they were developed including and civilian radios, nevertheless, in the aforementioned RF, who you don’t spit on - they will tell you about a company, for example, MegaJet Korean - everyone knows who the Berkut design bureaus are from the Moscow region ...

[Blacksmith 55]

Happened to carry the "Yacht" more than once, oh, and a heavy thing. Of course, this level is not a detachment-company but a higher one. In addition, for all sorts of exercises, each crew member was given a full horn to the AK.

[Radical]

Quote: Pedrodepackes

hiding from prying eyes "Baofengi" and "Kenwood" (thanks for not being "Motorola" at least),

and Motorola were in 205th on the first Chechen (at the end and after the withdrawal), and, judging by the numbering and strict transfer of the shift, officially. "Motorola" even became a household name, any communication on the radio was called "I'll give you a motorola." I was always surprised at how much easier it is to set up and contact the bourgeois stations and how hemorrhoids it is on our "gadgets"

And not only in the 205th ....

[senima56]

Back in 2008, the conflict in South Ossetia showed that our connection is crap! Didn't you make the right conclusions in 11 years ?! As a famous politician used to say: "Each ... has a name, surname and position!"

[yehat]

the problem is not only in walkie-talkies. In general, any type of communications for coordination across the army in the field remains a huge challenge. Even in the elite, court parts of the problems are many and they are solved exclusively formally. For example, they say that the maximum radius of normal exchange is 200 km and suggest proceeding from this, but this indicator only means a chance that the connection will someday appear, and usually it is stable no further than 120 km, they call in a little hilly terrain and the radius is already 50.
And this is in the best parts. In less fortunate flags and handrails on cars, our everything.

[UA3QHP]

Quote: Rusfaner

"Aqueduct" is a "copied" radio station from Thales.

Which one, exactly? There are 10 different types of them in the Aqueduct family.

[UA3QHP]

And with communication, how many stations the MO ordered, so much will be done.

[Rusfaner]

And you look at the "family" of tales and find ten differences ...

[svp67]

Which anyone can listen to, make any conclusions, not to mention the fact that all this is completely unreliable and simply insulting.

This is of course very bad, but it took less than a day to take the incident with the detention of Ukrainian ships, as the Ukrainians posted on the net all the negotiations between the ships between themselves and the coast. But for me it was really not clear. That the ships and especially the FSB ships do not have modern means of communication? And if so, why didn’t they use it during the military operation, and it was such then that was carried out? Is it complex and unreliable or are ship teams not trained to use it?
And what to say about some kind of radio stations, if on the desk of the signalman there is a "long-liver" TA-57 and almost no TA-88

and MB-CB-ATS

[ccsr]

Quote: svp67

This is of course very bad, but it took less than a day to take the incident with the detention of Ukrainian ships, as the Ukrainians posted on the network all the negotiations between the ships between themselves and the coast. But for me it was really not clear.

What is incomprehensible here, if the FSB communicated with Ukrainian sailors at authorized frequencies and without closing, so that later it could be charged in court. The same thing with the coast - all this was hemmed in the investigation materials, that's why they did not close it. But not only for us - Western intelligence agencies and other ships in the area of ​​the collision also wrote everything, so this was done on purpose.

[svp67]

Quote: ccsr

What is incomprehensible here, if the FSB communicated with Ukrainian sailors at authorized frequencies and without closing, so that later it could be charged in court. The same thing with the coast - all this was hemmed in the investigation materials, that's why they did not close it. But not only for us - Western intelligence agencies and other ships in the area of ​​the collision also wrote everything, so this was done on purpose.

There are negotiations that should not have been submitted to the "general listening"

[ccsr]

Quote: svp67

There are negotiations that should not have been submitted to the "general listening"

Which ones? You must understand that in a critical situation it is important to respond quickly to the situation, than hiding it from the ears of others. That is why mat-re-math happens, and only then they figure out who and what violated.

[svp67]

Quote: ccsr

That is why mat-re-math happens, and only then they figure out who and what violated.

Actually, from the very first classes on communication, I was taught that it is forbidden to name names and ranks on the air, and they there, as it were, do not really bother with this. As well as reports of upcoming actions, for example, the readiness to take special forces groups on board. And if the enemy could quickly use the information received?

[ccsr]

Quote: svp67

Actually, from the first classes on communication, I was taught that it’s forbidden to give names and ranks to the air,

They learn to teach, and real life is not only following the rules.

Quote: svp67

And if the enemy could quickly use the information received?

Then they would close it with guaranteed stability equipment or use cryptographic equipment.

[svp67]

Quote: ccsr

Then they would close it with guaranteed stability equipment or use cryptographic equipment.

Of course, "until the thunder breaks out ...."

[whack]

when the militia went into the WCT in the year 14, there was no amazement at the chapel. overseas friends delivered to the Nazis at the time a bunch of sets of communications. including satellite. Donetsk craftsmen have a little finished these trophies for themselves and use to this day. on satellite communications worse. for some technical reasons, I had to refuse to finish it and even if it was unnecessary. in the Debaltsevsky boiler the same story. Motorola sets, Iridium phones, etc. everything was thrown to vsu, picked up by the militia, reflashed and put into service!

[lexseyOGK]

When I served, we provided communications between the firing position and the command post of the commander in general over cellular communications. This is the year 2006. The regular walkie-talkie did not reach. Artillery of the Marine Corps.

[Alien From]

For a long time this question tormented me, we can do everything, we can do everything, and Fedor seems to have docked on the second attempt ...... Shame however .....

[DED_peer_DED]

Quote: Alien From

and Fedor seems to have docked on the second attempt ...... Shame however .....

Fedor used to "dock" to the ATV with a "nanotechnological" door hook. In the photo, the bottom arrow.

Unfortunately, this photo in good quality, which I previously provided, disappeared from the network mysteriously. Apparently, the specimen that is making faces in the photo (upper arrow) was briefly ashamed. But the "Chief", at that time, on the other hand did not come in and did not notice anything, so the "copy" got off with only "faces".
And so with us in everything.

[DED_peer_DED]

Quote: DED_peer_DED

And so with us in everything.

SHOW.

[Alien From]

We accustomed us to the Potemkin villages, and we hung our ears ..... it’s time to open our eyes !!!!

[Undecim]

Of course, when I see in the hands of officers these same R-168-0.5UDE, which are "Aqueduct", I will squeal with joy and with great pleasure I will create a whole report on this topic.
Here are those times! Who to believe? According to the assurances of the weekly Military-Industrial Courier newspaper dated March 4, 2009, the Russian army is equipped with a fifth-generation digital radio communications system R-168 (E) “Aqueduct” and 65% with the Airborne Forces, and the remaining 90% was planned to be delivered to airborne units in the first quarter of 10.
What does it mean, "Military-Industrial Courier" is lying?

[Alien From]

Given the desired for even more desired .....

[Tavrik]

The "Aqueducts" were indeed stamped unmeasuredly. And they are almost everywhere. Advantages: massiveness, a whole line of unified stations of different types, sizes, ranges. There is a frequency hopping, masking, the ability to transmit data, relay. Disadvantages: frequency hopping, masking, data transmission, relaying are so cleverly implemented that no one needs and does not use it in this form. Therefore, they are used only for classical telephone communication. Weak batteries, no support for modern data transfer protocols, no broadband (station or VHF or HF or microwave bands), poor ergonomics. Well, it's better not to think about the price at all ... For the price of one wearable P-168, you can buy dozens of Baofeng, Kenwood, Yaesu, etc. In short, the stations are outdated, but for lack of anything better they are trying to present their supply to the troops as an achievement. Before them there were "Crossbows" (even worse). Therefore, those that were even earlier (R-159, R-123, R-130) people remember with nostalgia.
Another thing is that rather than carrying a heavy, expensive (God forbid, to lose or break - you won't pay), an inconvenient "Aqueduct", it's easier to buy a Baofeng and not worry that something will happen to it.

[Earthshaker]

And I really thought that it was only in the fleet with radio stations "complete order", but no, they did not disappoint, sir.

[gregor6549]

As far as I understand, the author of the article focused on portable portable radio stations and, on the basis of this "emphasis", came to the conclusion that communication in the RF Armed Forces is in a deplorable state. I have great doubts that everything is so bad with the connection. Back in the mid-80s, the Soviet radio industry developed a number of radio stations (wearable, transportable, tropospheric, satellite, etc.) using digital, analog and analog-digital microcircuits already available at that time, encrypting communication channels, detecting and correcting errors in communication channels, protecting from interference, etc. ) In particular, many of these radio stations (built into the launcher or attached) were used in the automated command and control system developed by our NGO, both for digital data transmission and for voice communication. At some stage, the development of these ACCS was assigned to supervise the Marshal of the Signal Corps Leonov, who believed that the main thing in the ACCS was communication and paid much attention to making this communication work like clockwork. Those. communications were of quite decent quality and at all levels of command and control (from detachment to front command post).
Here I did not see portable domestic radio stations then. But there is a question, are they necessary? Indeed, along with getting the opportunity to exchange information of each with each (which is good), they also carry a certain danger (violation of camouflage of troops, decryption of messages by the enemy, etc. which is not good. Recall, in particular, how Dudaev was hit by a homing missile on radio emission when he used a portable (and in my satellite) radio station. After all, you won’t put a handkerchief on each mouth. And to provide serious encryption of communication channels within the framework of a portable radio station is not an easy task.
Yes, now there are portable radios which provide a certain level of encryption, in particular radios produced by Motorola with the P25 data exchange protocol and their analogues. These radio stations are now widely used in police and other government agencies in many countries around the world where a certain level of confidentiality is required. But for military purposes, this level of encryption is weak. In general, not everything is so bad in the world under the moon, although not everything is so simple.
And further. Do not forget that, among other things, the encryption of communication channels is associated with big problems with changing the ZAS keys. With these troubles to have time to cope with the "big" radio stations.

[Kaw]

After the sanctions, the western radio parts stopped supplying, and so the production of all modern electronic has been curtailed. IMHO
By the way. I read briefly that Russian PMCs buy business sights and night vision devices before hunting trips in hunting and sports stores. Because imported civilian (not the best) devices are many times superior to everything that is in military warehouses.

[ccsr]

Author:
Roman Skomorokhov

But these are all the nuances. In general, the very presence of civilian radio stations in the troops is nonsense of inflamed imagination.

The author was clearly overexcited - during the fighting they generally put on a similar division, but that’s not even the point, but the fact that the military range of PEACE time is sorely lacking for all radio stations of the armed forces. Do you think that frequency hopping radios occupy a smaller range than older analogue radios operating on a specific frequency grid? Oh well...

[Glory1974]

Do you think that frequency hopping radios occupy a smaller range than older analogue radios operating on a specific frequency grid?

They occupy no less range, maybe even more, but at the same time they do not interfere with each other's work.

[ccsr]

Quote: glory1974

They occupy no less range, maybe even more, but at the same time they do not interfere with each other's work.

Larger - definitely.
As for the work, you forget that the enemy will use the same frequencies, so the head of communications is tormented by choosing the working frequencies without radio intelligence data.

[Chaldon48]

It seems that this has already become a regular practice with us, all the best for the exhibition, and excess for the pride, but if there is such a misfortune that, despite the most desperate efforts of our top marketers, it will not be possible to sell, then we’ll have to offer native army.

[Tavrik]

The author of the article dug up a serious problem. It is what it is....

Having visited more than one part of the most diverse branches of the army, from the RBK to the motorized rifle, I have not seen new systems in any of them. None.
Moreover, it cannot be said that I did not see Sagittarius and the Aqueduct. Of course I did. It is clear where, on the forum "ARMY- ...". There they were calmly present as exhibits, along with promises that "just about, no further than tomorrow" these systems will already appear in the troops.

KRUS "Sagittarius" is generally a specific thing, sharpened for their tasks. According to its purpose, it should be part of the networks of the TZU, which are being built on the "Aqueducts".
"Aqueducts" are massively supplied to different types (sorts) of the RF Armed Forces. The stations are far from new, a lot of them were made. At the same time, the portable VHF range R-168-5UN and the KVshnaya portable R-168-100KA and the portable microwave R-168MRA are all "Aqueducts". They have different purposes. It is necessary to clarify what it is about.

That the enemy will interfere on the official ranges, and we, so cunning, will issue commands to civilian ones and we will defeat everyone.

What range - no difference. Range scanning is happening with amazing speed.
Mentioned by the author "Astra", "Parus", "Argut" I have never heard of. These are definitely military stations, i.e. those supplied by the General Directorate of Communications? Or something "local"?

[sh3roman]

POSORISCHE !!!!!! It's not in vain that I doubt about 10 years of balabstvo, like everything is super in our army. After 100 years, the fig has not changed, then they chatted without encryption, and now the same thing happens. It would be nice to show this report on the star channel or on Solovyov’s channel. But this doesn’t happen to us. Censorship -s.

[Cresta999]

At the platoon / company level - R-105. Parts of OSNaz. A dozen batteries per company. The charge was kept for 20 minutes.