Sea storm. Top Discovery Submarines

193


Submarine - Sea Thunderstorm
Steel eyes under black cap


100 years ago, submarines proved their combat effectiveness by confidently occupying their niche in the field of naval armaments. It was the nuclear-powered submarine rocket carriers that were given the honorable role of the “grave-diggers of mankind”.
Due to the high complexity and high cost, nuclear submarines were initially only available as part of the fleets of the USSR and the USA. After some time, they were joined by the British and French nuclear submarines. Later, Chinese atomic submarines appeared. Now the submarine is available in the Indian Navy - the Indians use Russian equipment, but at the same time they are actively working on the project of their own submarine.

As with any technical system, submarines of different projects have their own advantages and disadvantages. It also tried to find out the American cognitive channel Discovery, having made a rating of the best submarines. From my point of view, it is foolish and ignorant to directly compare submarines of different eras. Representation of a German U-bot navigator trying to determine with a primitive gyrocompass, where is the North under this damn water, where to sail and what to do - the battery is almost discharged, there is no connection with the coast, and there are enemy anti-submarine ships on the tail. What does a German seaman have in common with a member of the crew of a modern submarine equipped with satellite communication and navigation systems? An atomic-powered vessel can secretly operate for months in the thickness of the sea, and its weapon able to incinerate all life on several continents. It is much more logical, on the basis of the “Best Submarines” program, to compare only nuclear submarines.

A few more words from the theory of submarines. Despite its excellent fighting qualities, submarines are still too specific weapons, which in most cases are not able to replace surface ships. U-boats are powerless against aviationand in the case of local conflicts, when, for example, it is necessary to support the landing force with fire, their striking potential against ground targets disappears. The main combat quality of the submarine is stealth, and this parameter is usually at the forefront when comparing submarines. Although dignity often becomes a disadvantage, the submarine cannot declare its presence, as it is simply not visible. But these are trifles.

Much more serious is the fact that underwater forces operating separately from aircraft and surface ships are easy prey. The German submariners at first filled their huge bills by destroying unarmed transports or attacking an unprepared enemy. With the emergence of more or less serious opposition, the effectiveness of the “wolf packs” Doenitz sharply decreased, and when naval anti-submarine aviation went on the hunt, radar and new acoustic stations appeared, the Germans had the last chance of success. During the Second World 783, the German U-bot remained at the bottom of the Atlantic, 32 000 submariners died!

The moral is this: submarines do an excellent job with their tasks, but using them to solve all the problems facing the Navy is pointless and inefficient. And now, I think, it is worth going directly to the rating.


10 location - type "Virginia"



Multipurpose submarines of the US Navy fourth generation.
The lead ship entered service in 2004 year. Today, the 8 submarine is under construction; according to the plan, before the 2030, 22 submarines should be built
At first glance, the characteristics of the most modern atomic icebreaker in the world cause a deep sense of frustration. The speed of the underwater stroke - 25 nodes, the working depth of the dive - 250 meters. NDA ... such indicators can not surprise even submariners Kriegsmarine. Weaponry does not shine either: 4 torpedo tubes and 12 vertical launchers for launching Tomahawk cruise missiles. Ammunition - 26 torpedoes and 12 "Battle axes". Not much. From special means - the boat is equipped with a lock chamber for the exit of combat swimmers and uninhabited underwater vehicles.

But this project also has a number of strengths that make the Virginia nuclear submarine an extremely dangerous underwater adversary. Full secrecy is her motto! The system of insulated decks, cascade pneumatic depreciation of the equipment, new “silencing” hull coverings and a propeller enclosed in a fenestron (ring fairing) - all this provides an extremely low level of noise. The boat is almost undetectable against the background of ocean noise. The new atomic power plant General Electric S6E allows the reactor to be recharged once every 30 years, which corresponds to the estimated service life of the submarine.
"Virginia" is full of various "high-tech" systems and the latest radio-electronic equipment. For the first time in world practice, instead of the traditional periscope, a telescopic mast is used on which a video camera, an infrared sensor and a laser rangefinder are mounted. The image is transmitted to the monitor in the central post via fiber-optic cable. The solution, of course, is interesting.

Sea storm. Top Discovery Submarines


But ... no matter how hard the American submariners tried to admire their new boat, this is not at all what their dreams were about. 20 years ago, such a submarine in the US Navy would have caused a storm of indignation - America was preparing to build completely different submarines, with outrageous characteristics and very high cost. For these indicators, Virginia is just a compromise. Nevertheless, the boats of this project carry successful innovative solutions, have high combat potential and are designed for mass construction.

9 place - Typhoon



Heavy missile submarine cruiser strategic purpose project 941. The length of his body as two football fields. Height - with a nine-story house. Underwater displacement - 48 000 tons. Crew - 160 man.
The largest submarine ever created by man. Doubtful achievement in terms of combat effectiveness, but at the same time, it is impossible not to admire the size of this submarine. A total of 941 nuclear submarine missile carriers was built under the 6 project.



Due to its cyclopean size, the Typhoon was able to break through ice up to 2,5 meters (!) Thick, which opened up the prospect of combat watch in high Arctic latitudes in front of the Soviet submarine cruiser.
Another advantage of this incredible "underwater catamaran" - extremely high survivability. Nineteen (!) Sealed compartments allowed to disperse and duplicate all the important ship systems. Typhoon reactors were placed in two independent compartments in different submarine hulls.
What? What kind of buildings are we talking about?


Typhoon Anchor


The Typhoon owed its immense size to the R-39 solid-fuel ballistic missile with a launch weight of 90 tons, there were 20 of them on board the nuclear submarine cruiser. The designers had to apply unconventional layout solutions, as a result - this incredible “underwater catamaran” has two separate titanium durable hulls (there are five of them in technical terms!). At the same time, the mass of sea water located in the light body is 15 tons, for which Typhoon received navy ironic nickname "water carrier". But he fulfilled his task of strategic nuclear deterrence 100%. Best of all, Malakhit Design Bureau specialists said about this project - "the victory of technology over common sense."

8 place - "Golden Fish"

Records that are not reported Tass. 18 December 1970 of the submarine of the Northern Fleet K-162 submergedly set the absolute world speed record - 44,7 knot (82,78 km / h).



In the autumn of 1971, during a long voyage to the Atlantic - up to the Brazil Basin itself, she repeatedly overtook the aircraft carrier "Saratoga" - the US Navy group failed to break away from it. The Soviet submarine, despite all attempts at evasion, easily and naturally took a favorable position for an attack in front of astonished Americans.
In addition to excellent ride quality, K-162 (with 1978 g. - K-222) possessed solid armament. As the main caliber - 10 launchers of Amethyst anti-ship missiles, there were also 4 torpedo tubes and 12 torpedoes.



Why, on the super-project 661 "Anchar" was built only one submarine? There are several reasons for this:
Too high noise, at a speed of more than 35 nodes K-162 created a monstrous rumble. At the center post, the acoustic noise level reached 100 decibel. This deprived the boat of stealth, and to compete in speed with anti-submarine helicopters was pointless.

Another funny moment, the titanium monster cost the USSR 240 million rubles (at the same time, American taxpayers paid 450 million dollars for the aircraft carrier Enterprise, in 1960's for 1 the dollar was given 60 kopecks ... so consider it). Unbelievable, but true - the submarine cost almost like a giant nuclear aircraft carrier with a displacement of 85 000 tons. No wonder K-162 nicknamed "Golden Fish"!

7 Place - The Elusive Mike



Another record holder from the depths of the ocean is the K-278 multi-purpose nuclear submarine Komsomolets with a titanium hull. 4 August 1985 of the year she set the absolute record of the depth of the dive among submarines - 1027 meters!
In fact, the best submarine of the Soviet Navy was designed for even greater depth - 1250 meters, while the record submarine could use his weapon at any depth; During the test dives K-278 successfully shot out torpedo dummies at a depth of 800 meters!



The only ship project 685 "Fin" was well armed and very dangerous - 6 nasal torpedo tubes and 22 ammunition. The submarine’s weapons complex included strategic cruise missiles “Granat”, high-speed “Squall” submarine missiles, “Waterfall” anti-submarine torpedoes with nuclear warheads and self-guided electric torpedoes.
The amazing submarine became an insoluble riddle for the “likely enemy” Navy — at the depth of 1 the kilometer Elusive Mike was not detected by any acoustic, magnetic or other means.


Shots from the deepwater apparatus "Mir", 1994 year


Well ... I do not want to mention this ... this is the same submarine that died in the fire in the Norwegian Sea 7 on April 1989. K-278 sank at a depth of 1858 meters, part of the crew was rescued. The exact causes of the death of the submarine have not been established so far; the Arctic reliably keeps its secrets.

6 place - "Killers cities"



15 November 1960 for the first time went into combat patrols atomic submarine carrier "George Washington" with ballistic missiles on board. The main task of the new submarine ship was the launching of nuclear-missile strikes from the depths of the World Ocean at important administrative centers, military-economic potential objects and large cities with the aim of their complete destruction.

The ideas underlying this ambitious project were as follows:
- A ballistic missile launched from a submarine has a lower flight time compared with a missile launched from a ground base. This factor provides greater surprise and reduces the time during which the enemy can take countermeasures;
- an atomic submarine missile carrier has such a high mobility compared to a conventional diesel boat that the enemy is unable to detect and hit it in time;
- in the presence of a certain number of nuclear missile submarines in positions in the oceans, the enemy will never determine where he should expect an attack;



During the year to “J. Washington "joined another 4 similar submarines. Coming to the launch positions in the Norwegian and Mediterranean seas, each of them could launch 16 A-1 X-ballistic Polaris ballistic missiles at a distance of 2200 km. The missiles were equipped with warheads with explosive power of 600 kilotons, the launch was carried out from a depth of 20 meters. Frankly weak characteristics from the standpoint of our days, but fifty years ago strategic submarines of the type “J. Washington "made the whole world shudder.

5 Place - The Inimitable "Lyra"



Underwater interceptor project 705 (K). The elusive and merciless killer, created to hunt enemy submarines. The speed of the underwater stroke is an 41 knot, incredibly, but Lyra was developing full speed in a minute from a fixed position. At full speed, circulation with a turn on 180 ° was performed in 40 seconds. Such tricks allowed to escape from anti-submarine torpedoes.
“Lyra” could move away from the pier in thirty minutes, pick up the course and hide under water, dissolving in the depths of the World Ocean (the usual NPS needs 2-3 hours). Such amazing characteristics are the result of special technical solutions used to create this project.

First, the specialists of the design bureau Malakhit tried to reduce the size of the submarines to the limit, reducing the crew to a minimum and leaving only one reactor. The submarine, equipped with an integrated automated control system, was operated by a crew of all 32 officers.
Secondly, as a construction material was applied ... correctly, titanium. And, of course, an unusual power plant was required for an unusual boat - a reactor with a liquid metal coolant (LMT) - it was not water that was boiling in the reactor circuits, but lead melt with bismuth was boiling. Actually, a similar "unit" was used only on the Soviet submarine K-27, which did not go into the series. Also, the reactor with the liquid metal filter was tested on the American submarine USS Seawolf ”(SSN-575), but after 4 years of operation it was dismantled and replaced with a conventional water-cooled reactor. Therefore, the Lyra have become the only series of nuclear submarines in the world with a liquid-liquid fuel cell reactor. Reactors of this type have an undeniable advantage - exceptional “pickup” and high power density.



At the same time, a reactor with a liquid metal filter is an increased danger and requires special measures to comply with operating rules. In the case of the slightest solidification, the coolant completely ceases to perform its functions, turning the reactor into a nuclear bomb. Most of the boats with the ZhMT reactors (including the experimental K-27) left the fleet's combat strength due to bad stories in the reactor compartment. So 8 on April 1982 of the year, during a cruise, 123 tons of liquid metal from the primary loop of the reactor spilled onto the K-2 nuclear submarine deck. The elimination of the consequences of the accident took 9 years.

The base station atarin Ave 705 (K) was located in Western Person. There was also created a special coastal complex for servicing submarines of this type: a boiler room for supplying steam to ships, at the piers - the floating tower and the destroyer, which supplied steam from their boilers. However, from the point of view of safety, this turned out to be little - the usual accident on the heating main threatened to turn into a terrible radiation catastrophe. Therefore, the Lyras "warmed" on their own, their reactors were constantly working at a minimally controlled power level. The boat could not be disregarded for a second. All this did not add "Lyrum" popularity among the inhabitants of the garrison.
All six horrific Cold War horror stories were finally written off in the 90-s, putting an end to the development of nuclear submarines with reactors with liquid iron and leather. On both sides of the ocean, they sighed with relief - the Lyra were a formidable underwater adversary for the US Navy, but at the same time the little ones were completely ruthless towards their own crew and personnel of the military base in Western Person.

4 place - "Pike-B" against the "Sea Wolf"

The best of the best. The Soviet multi-purpose submarine of the 971 Pike-B project absorbed the most successful ideas of the legendary predecessor of the Ave. 671 RTMK and the titanium submarine of the Ave 945 Barracuda.



Severe underwater warrior was not created for records. It was a thought-out to the smallest detail, a balanced project of a multi-purpose submarine which has virtually no weak points. Submerged Speed ​​- 30 nodes. Immersion depth - 480 meters, limit - 600. Armament - eight torpedo tubes, 40 units of ammunition in various combinations: Granat cruise missiles with nuclear warheads, anti-submarine torpedoes, Squall submarines, mines and UGST deep-water self-guided torpedoes. Among other things, Pike-B was armed with the most powerful torpedoes “65-76” caliber 650 mm. The warhead is 450 kg, the range of the course is of the order of 30 nautical miles. The speed in the search mode is -30 nodes, at the time of the attack - 50 ... 70 nodes. The submarine could attack the enemy without entering into the zone of action of its anti-submarine weapons, and the newest electronic equipment and sonar equipment of the boat allowed the sailors to control the space within a radius of tens of miles from the submarine.



In 80, an international scandal broke out - information leaked to the press that the KGB through dummy "civilian"
customers purchased from Toshiba high-precision metalworking machines. Propellers made by the new technology, at times reduced the noise of the Soviet submarines. America imposed sanctions against Toshiba’s greedy managers, but it’s done - Pike B has already gone to sea.
Currently, the multi-purpose submarines of the 971 Ave. form the basis of the submarine fleet of Russia. In total, 14 Shchuk-B was built, another one - K-152 Nerpa was completed in export version, 4 on April 2012 of the year on the basis of Vishakhapatnam the boat was adopted by the Indian Navy. A few more buildings, which are in high readiness, were used in the construction of the Borey-type SSBN.

Stung by Soviet superiority, the Pentagon decided to take countermeasures without delay. In October, a new type of submarine with the awesome name “Seawolf” (“Sea Wolf”) was laid in the USA 1989.
The Americans tried as best they could, on the new submarine a revolutionary propulsion unit is used - a water cannon. The distances between the hull of the boat and the mechanisms of the power plant were increased, new shock absorbers and noise absorbing coatings were used. The boat is almost undetectable when moving 20 nodal move.



The armament complex is powerful and diverse: Mark-48 universal torpedoes, Tomahawk tactical cruise missiles, Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Captor anti-submarine mines. For their launch, eight 660 mm torpedo tubes mounted along the sides of the submarine are used. The bow of the boat is fully occupied by the HAS, another 6 passive sonar antennas are installed along the sides. The result was a real ocean gangster able to deal with any adversary. That's just the price issue ... 4 billion dollars. A good submarine usually stands as an aircraft carrier.
30 "Sea wolves" were supposed to become the pillar of the US Navy in the future, but due to the collapse of the USSR, they built only three boats. In return, the sailors received a Virginia with reduced characteristics (Remember, we talked about this?).



The “sea wolf” is of course cool, but the Russian Navy has three times the number of submarines from the 971 “Pike-B” submarine, which are almost as good as its characteristics.

3 Place - Los Angeles Type



A series of 62 multipurpose nuclear submarines of the US Navy. Americans themselves like to call them “fast attack submarines”, which, in essence, means “submarine hunters”. The main tasks are to cover aircraft carrier groups and areas of deployment of strategic submarine missile-carriers, and to combat enemy submarines. One of the few submarines that have at least some combat experience - during the “Storm in the Desert” two “Los Angeles” were involved in strikes against ground targets.




Central post


What is the secret of their popularity? Los Angeles is known for its reliability and low noise level. They are quite mobile (underwater travel to 35 nodes), have a modest size and cost. Real fleet workhorses.

The boats are well armed - there are 4 torpedo tubes and 12 vertical launchers to launch "Tomahawks", the general ammunition load is 38 missiles and torpedoes. "Tomahawks", "Harpoons", "tricky" mines "Keptor" - a standard set of American submarines. Some of the "Los Angeles" are equipped with a container of Dry Deck Shelter to work underwater saboteurs.


Open cover of rocket mines


America is in no hurry to part with their proven submarines. Even with the new “Virginia”, many of the “Los Angeles” are being upgraded and will remain in service at least until the 2030 year.

2 Place - Ohio Type

The most advanced nuclear submarines. At underwater displacement 18 700 tons of American designers
managed to "shove" on the "Ohio" 24 launch shafts to launch ballistic missiles "Trident".



Otherwise, these are ordinary submarines built in the best traditions of the American submarine fleet: the 4 compartment, the only reactor, the submerged speed of the 20-25 nodes, four torpedo tubes for self-defense. To enhance the combat stability of the "Ohio" was focused in two directions. First, the developers have achieved a radical reduction of acoustic, magnetic, radiation and thermal fields. Secondly, the combat stability of the boat is provided by a mode of extremely high secrecy - during combat patrols, the exact position of the SSBN is unknown even to the helmsman, only a few senior officers of the submarine know the coordinates.



In connection with the strategic offensive arms limitation treaty, 4 from 18 Ohio was reclassified into a SSGN (nuclear submarine with cruise missiles). The Trident ballistic missiles were removed from the mines; instead, 22 tactical Tomahawks (154 each) were placed in the 7 rocket mines. The two mines nearest to the wheelhouse are converted into airlock chambers for combat swimmers. In addition, 66 paratroopers can be stationed on the boat, in addition to the main crew.


Tomahawks


Surprisingly, the Ohio created by 35 years ago fully complies with modern requirements, while their operating intensity factor corresponds to 0,6. This means that the boats of 2 / 3 of their time spend on combat patrols.
The command of the US Navy plans to completely remove the "Ohio" from the fleet combat no earlier than 2040 of the year. Sixty years in combat service? We'll see…

1 Place - Nautilus

January 17, 1955 on the radio sounded historical message: “Underway on nuclear power”.

The submarine USS Nautilus (operational code SSN-571) entered the history of the world as the first real submarine, which forever belongs to first place. I apologize for the involuntary pun, but all of her diesel predecessors were essentially not submarines. They were "diving" boats, spending the lion's share of time in the water. Diving was considered a tactical maneuver, and the time spent under water was limited to a few days. At the same time, the mobility of the boat in the underwater position was extremely limited.



Only the unquenchable flame of a nuclear reactor allowed to completely disappear under water, providing the submarine with an inexhaustible source of energy. From now on and in spite of all the limitations of the ancient philosophers, man could spend months at the bottom of the sea, creating his indomitable path to new achievements.

Even at the design stage, it became clear what prospects open up for ships with a nuclear power plant. In the 1954, the Nautilus was launched, the first trials began, giving the sailors confidence in their power over the forces of nature. The nuclear-powered ship developed a sub-23 node and could maintain such a speed indefinitely. Within reasonable limits, of course, one reactor charge was enough for nautical miles for 25000. This figure means that the submerged cruising range of the Nautilus was limited only by stocks of products, air and crew endurance.

Having set its first record only by the appearance of the light, the Nautilus continued to amaze - 3 August 1958, he became the first ship to reach the North Pole. Inspired by the success of nuclear power, the American seamen in 1959, completely abandoned the construction of diesel-electric submarines.



And then ... and then began the fleet weekdays. "Nautilus" in terms of operation turned out to be a fucking ship. Turbine vibration was such that already on 4 nodes the sonar became useless. The concentrated loadings and significant dimensions of the energy compartment required new layout solutions, while the mass of lead biological protection was 740 tons (almost a quarter of the ship's displacement!). I had to abandon a number of the equipment provided by the project.
"Nautilus" became famous as a record for the number of emergency. These were mainly navigational errors (for example, an Essex carrier ram in 1966, or an unsuccessful attempt to break through the Arctic ice during the conquest of the North Pole). Not without a sour fire - in 1958, the submarine burned for several hours.

After serving a quarter of a century, the submarine embarked on an eternal joke in the city of Groton, becoming a floating museum.
I wish everyone to live their life as brightly as Nautilus did.
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193 comments
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  1. +17
    7 July 2012 09: 45
    Very strange, usually Discovery ignores our military developments, well, it was hard to understand ... it's strange that the Hungarians and Triumphs did not turn on)))
    1. Ataturk
      +39
      7 July 2012 10: 31
      He was pleasantly surprised by the number of Soviet submarines. Something is not like pen-do-owls. Guys, I don’t know about you, but I noticed one thing, all Soviet-made submarines. Oh, and there were times. I am proud that, although not for long, I lived in the Soviet Union for 2 decades. All we have is the entire legacy of the Soviet era
      1. 755962
        +23
        7 July 2012 11: 33
        I pay tribute to the design ideas of Soviet engineers and workers. Some records of underwater shipbuilding have not been broken so far!
      2. +3
        8 July 2012 00: 25
        Ataturk,
        Well said! I recall the eighties, and pikes and Warsaw - beautiful and powerful.
    2. +16
      7 July 2012 12: 15
      And I thought so, they will give our due, but they will put them in first place. So it is.
      1. Ataturk
        +24
        7 July 2012 15: 03
        Quote: selbrat
        And I thought so, they will give our due, but they will put them in first place. So it is.

        It is not important. The main thing is that they are considered and respected by the West. So they know the power of the Soviet submarines. And this means that they are AFRAID.

        And the fact that they put their own in the first place is not news :) It's the same as Hitler put the Soviet T-34 next to his tanks and recognizes it as the best)))))))))))) And, accordingly, they cannot say that the Soviet is better. Since the image of THEM over the state will be below the plinth.

        So GLORY TO THE SOVIET UNION. Which will remain in our hearts.
        Gorbachev per stake
      2. Gym teacher
        -28
        7 July 2012 15: 18
        The Soviet Navy lost more nuclear submarines, than all the countries of the world combined. In total, Soviet sailors drowned 9 nuclear submarines:

        K-8 - fire, the exact coordinates of the flooding site are unknown

        K-27 - radiation accident, boat flooded near Novaya Zemlya

        K-219 - a rocket explosion in a mine, a boat sank in the Atlantic

        K-278 - fire, 2/3 of the crew died, the boat lies at a depth of 1850 meters

        K-431 - died as a result of a radiation accident in Chazhma Bay

        K-42 - died as a result of a radiation accident in Chazhma Bay

        K-122 - burned at about. Okinawa, 20 people died, was towed to the base, but the restoration was considered inappropriate, the boat never went to sea again

        K-429 (drowned twice !!! The first time 16 people were killed, the boat was lifted, repairs cost 320 million rubles, after 2 years it sank again! It was lifted again but never went to sea)

        K-141 "Kursk" - the entire crew was killed. "Carrier killer" was drowned with impunity by US Navy submarines right in the middle of the Northern Fleet training ground

        TOTAL - NINE nuclear submarines (for example: the US Navy lost 4 nuclear submarines - "Thresher", "Scorpion", "Baton Rouge" and "Grayling" (the last two reached the base on their own, but it was decided not to restore them)


        In 1968, the Soviet K-129 was lost in the Pacific Ocean together with the entire crew - a diesel submarine with atomic weapons on board (5 warheads: SLBMs and torpedoes)

        Another worth remembering is the radiation accident at the nuclear K-19, which made the boat famous all over the world. A total of 19 accidents and catastrophes occurred on K-6

        PHENOMENAL RESULTS OF SOVIET SEAFARERS
        1. CC-18a
          +19
          7 July 2012 23: 03
          Pin * dos have no less losses. And the accident rate is generally a disaster, and only official data is enough to consider the US submarine fleet as the most emergency and dangerous in operation. Meanwhile, there are still unofficial non-published accidents. For example, on a pier in Japan, one of the US boats moored, after her departure in this water area, radiation infection was detected, during the investigation they found the epicenter was the pier where the US boat was, it is not known what happened, the Japanese were offended but swallowed, the USA did not that they didn’t apologize but didn’t even inform about the event that could erase 1 city of Japan from the face of the earth and the tsunami and then half of Japan.
          In addition, in the history of the United States there are incidents of allegedly lost nuclear bombs! this is a complete star, if it becomes known right now about such crazy things about the USA, then it’s scary to imagine what we have done now and what we can learn in 50 years, and what kind of thing is that the USA will never recognize. So the dumbest careless and dangerous thing in the world is the us army
          1. +8
            8 July 2012 00: 22
            Well, they have less losses, but they had enough bungling and advanced ones. Only one "Greenville" to remember, drowned when the emergence of Japanese fishermen. By the way, this is not the first time the Americans have drowned the Japanese. But what about collisions with our boats? and do not count. Although, in fairness, we really need to remember the number of our boats killed. True, one of the explanations for this is the absence of bases and any other support for our boats during combat patrols. Being thousands of miles away from your base makes it hard to beat an accident. The Americans have NATO bases around the world. The second reason is the size of the submarine fleet. It would be hard to deny that with a large car park, accidents happen more often than in a smaller one. Fizruk - you are trying in vain. We all remember without you. But where did you get the info about the Kursk sunk by foreign submarines?
            1. Rider
              -10
              8 July 2012 01: 53
              Quote: Delta
              But what about the collisions with our boats? and do not count

              Actually, the objective indicator is major accidents with numerous casualties. And here the statistics are not in favor of the USSR Navy. 1: 3 ratio

              Quote: Delta
              Only one "Greenville" to remember, drowned when the emergence of Japanese fishermen.


              Oh, this is nonsense. Better remember the story about the collision of the nuclear submarine K-56 and the research vessel "Akademik Berg". This is a BLOW! Half the boat was shattered, 27 sailors were killed, the nuclear-powered K-56 barely limped to the shore and thrown itself onto the rocks.

              Quote: Delta
              one of the explanations for this is the lack of bases and any other support for our boats during combat patrols


              Quote: Delta
              Being thousands of miles from its basehard to beat the accident


              I'll cry right now crying
              "Komsomolets" died in the Norwegian Sea near its shores

              "Kursk" - generally under the nose, about 100 km from Murmansk

              K-429 drowned right at the exit from the bay. It was picked up and repaired for 320 million rubles (each resident of the USSR paid 2 rubles for this from his pocket). In less than two years, the sailors drowned her again. Right at the mooring wall

              Or do you say that in the USA every submarine is accompanied everywhere by a surface floating base?

              Quote: Delta
              The second reason is the size of the submarine fleet.

              US Navy - 170 atomic submarines
              USSR Navy - about 240 nuclear submarines

              And the number of disasters was 3 times higher!
              And this despite the fact that in the U.S. Navy, atomic submarines appeared earlier and were operated twice as intensively (these are all real facts)
              1. +1
                8 July 2012 20: 36
                What else are you in Russia? Well, scatter in P. Indosia and be proud of your new homeland son. so who who and amers know who they if they have a light in the sea - the ocean will. what is on our not even modern boats now amers cannot build the next 10-15 years. stop whining about USS’s greatest motives. it all depends on the crew and most importantly the commander. just propaganda again, what good sailors they are and we are bad. They have repeatedly proved to Amers without any fuss that the proud name of the owners of the seas is not yet available to them.
            2. +12
              8 July 2012 04: 25
              In quantity, we surpassed Amers almost always, but more boats, respectively more emergency. And one more thing, we are only approaching the unification of nuclear submarines, we were constantly looking for something new, well, and, accordingly, a lot of different nuclear submarines, not all boats took care of their resources, were replaced by new types, but new, this is also a danger of an accident .. .
        2. 77bor1973
          +2
          8 July 2012 00: 11
          And ours built nuclear submarines once in 10 more Americans 1
          1. Rider
            -10
            8 July 2012 01: 40
            Quote: 77bor1973
            And ours built nuclear submarines once in 10 more Americans

            Do not make me laugh laughing

            US Navy - 170 atomic submarines
            USSR Navy - about 240 nuclear submarines

            KOH U.S. Navy Submarine -0,6
            KOH submarines of the Navy of the USSR - 0,3
            This means that our submarines were twice less likely to go to sea.

            US Navy lost 2 nuclear submarines
            USSR Navy lost 9 nuclear submarines

            The reason for the paradox?
            1. mihos ve
              0
              8 July 2012 20: 03
              240-9. 170-2. A priority????????? Are you a mathematician ???
            2. +3
              10 July 2012 12: 54
              ... The numbers are a good thing .......
              -CON ...... are you aware that we had a BS on average 80-100 days, and the Americans have a maximum of 60? With the call to friendly ports ...
              - Well, tell me what you know about the collision in the submerged position of the RPK CH K-279 667b pr. (My native) with the American "Augusta (Augusta?) Type Los Angeles about October Northeast Atlantic 1996 ???
              I guess I didn’t hear .... So after the collision the American lost her course, barely surfaced, gave Mayday, in the floating dock she was delivered to the base point .....
              As a result, the boat due to the damage received was deemed inappropriate to repair, and to be scrapped!
              The American nuclear submarine actually sunk by us.
              K-279, having successfully completed combat duty tasks, returned to base .....
              Many, many interesting things you can still tell ....
              1. +3
                10 July 2012 18: 18
                Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
                collision in a submerged position RPK CH K-279 667b pr. (my own) with the American "Augusta" ... the American lost speed, barely surfaced ... As a result, the boat was damaged repair recognized as unsuitable, and for scrapping


                Why lie?
                USS Augusta is known for being the first to open fire on Iraq in 2003, firing 12 Tomahawks

                And in 1996 there was no collision
        3. +6
          8 July 2012 10: 06
          Quote: Fizruk
          PHENOMENAL RESULTS OF SOVIET SEAFARERS

          Quote: Fizruk
          In total, Soviet sailors drowned 9 nuclear submarines:

          You just do not say this to the sailors in person.
          1. +4
            8 July 2012 20: 59
            Why not, let him say it! Preferably for those who are not yet retired. How long will she live afterwards!? ...
        4. +1
          9 July 2012 13: 59
          Shoot you!
        5. Sleg
          +1
          9 July 2012 23: 29
          http://navycollection.narod.ru/library/mormul/40.htm

          Read for self-education, otherwise write straight with a scream and red text, life is probably nervous, you are worried about everything for your homeland, though it’s not clear which one.
        6. +2
          10 July 2012 12: 26
          ... You ..... **** go out on July 29 and say the same to the sailors .......
          Do not dare to dirty your fallen heroes with your dirty hands !!!
        7. +1
          10 July 2012 23: 56
          "Fizruk" why are you so angry with the Soviet Union? Of course, not everything was good and smooth, but now only good things are remembered, and we were proud of our country!
        8. 0
          8 February 2021 18: 49
          decided to shit a little? and the pro-subplav of the states did not hear not? Trollina Galimaya
    3. 0
      8 July 2012 00: 12
      Vanguard was made with "Ohio", and the missiles are all the same Tridents, so you can not mention the English
  2. Diesel
    +13
    7 July 2012 09: 52
    Nautilus, Ohio, Los Angeles share a pedestal, I think everything has been clear to everyone with the Discovery Channel for a long time.
    1. +17
      7 July 2012 10: 14
      Quote: Diesel
      Nautilus, Ohio, Los Angeles share a pedestal,

      Discovery is a normal American channel, well, they won’t show that there are better boats than American ones.
      They have all the very things ................ but in recent military conflicts, they paradoxically choose their opponent in advance weaker and having good oil reserves.
      1. chukapabra
        -18
        7 July 2012 10: 23
        Quote: APASUS
        but in recent military conflicts, they paradoxically choose their opponent in advance weaker

        Is there more?

        Quote: APASUS
        but in recent military conflicts, they paradoxically choose their opponent in advance weaker

        Is there more?
        1. +10
          7 July 2012 11: 24
          Quote: chukapabra
          but in recent military conflicts, they paradoxically choose their opponent in advance weaker. And is there more?

          There are not stronger, but rather comparable.
          Although I had to get from the weak !! Take Vietnam. The defeat in the Vietnamese company led to the biggest reforms in the US Army.
          1. chukapabra
            -14
            7 July 2012 13: 13
            Quote: APASUS
            Although I had to get from the weak !! Take Vietnam. The defeat in the Vietnamese company led to the biggest reforms in the US Army.

            Of course, the state of the Russian army, why not measure the battle on the Kalka River fool
            He didn’t answer the question, is there anyone stronger? And if not, then all the others are obviously weaker bully crying
            1. mihos ve
              0
              8 July 2012 20: 05
              What did not affect ???
              1. mihos ve
                +1
                8 July 2012 20: 34
                we are always weaker- and for some reason they suck -GAS
            2. +3
              8 July 2012 20: 51
              on what basis do you argue that your army is the strongest. if on the basis of discovery, then, as they say, be treated or evidence of (real) forces in the studio. I will believe in the strength of the American army if the fighters can conquer Russia or China. And to prove your strength on the weak is purely American (petty) and by the way the answer to the question "is there anyone stronger?" THERE IS!!! RUSSIA!!! try to convince me that this is not so FACTS! and preferably not from the State Department. how do you measure the strength of the United States. the number of weapons? the quality of the weapon? if we proceed from the costs of wars and the exhaust from them, shitty warriors from them. 1 example of Fallujah, it will be interesting to throw an esche. and so pink glasses to your face
          2. Gym teacher
            -21
            7 July 2012 15: 25
            Quote: APASUS
            Although I had to get from the weak !! Take Vietnam. The defeat in the Vietnamese company led to the biggest reforms in the US Army.


            The Soviet army raked from Afghanistan, although the Afghans had neither aircraft, nor tanks, nor S-75 air defense systems
            1. +20
              7 July 2012 18: 12
              Quote: Fizruk
              The Soviet army raked from Afghanistan, although the Afghans had neither aircraft, nor tanks, nor S-75 air defense systems

              Son, in Afghanistan, our army fought against the entire western world (money, weapons, instructors). And what about the S-75, in Afghanistan, if not in the know, there were "stingers". And tanks and aircraft for guerrilla warfare are not particularly needed . Especially in the mountains. And about the "ogrebla" - in the last years of the war, tactics were successfully used to eliminate caravans from Pakistan. And it was a matter of time to put the squeeze on the Mujahideen. Well, then Misha marked intervened. Our Afgana did not flee like the Americans from Vietnam, but systematically withdrew the troops.
              1. Tram boom
                -14
                7 July 2012 18: 34
                Quote: selbrat
                in Afghanistan, our army fought against the entire Western world (money, weapons, instructors).


                US assistance to Afghanistan cannot be compared to how the USSR helped Vietnam. There are completely different volumes and numbers. For example, the USSR set Sev. Vietnam 60 S-75 divisions and 7500 anti-aircraft missiles to themIn addition, there were deliveries of Strela-10 mobile air defense systems and anti-aircraft artillery of all calibers - from 23 mm ZU-23-2 to 100 mm anti-aircraft guns.

                Half of the "Stingers were NOT used AT ALL - the United States bought back 1990 Stingers back in the 1000s.

                For comparison, the Afghan Basmachi received only about 5000 MANPADS. of which the "Stingers" were less than half. The rest are poor Bloupipe, Redai and Javellin with semi-automatic guidance and the inability to shoot in pursuit.

                Quote: selbrat
                And what about the s-75, in Afghanistan, if not in the know, the "stingers" were.

                Do you understand the difference between long-range air defense systems and "portable anti-aircraft missile systems"? Probably not.

                Stinger warhead -5 kg
                S-75 warhead - 200 kg

                Stinger firing range - 5 km
                S-75 firing range - 30 km

                Max. Stinger's defeat height - 3800 meters
                Max. S-75 defeat rate - 25000 meters

                Quote: selbrat
                But tanks and aircraft for guerrilla warfare and not really needed

                So here. The United States withdrew from Vietnam, tired of the war with the Real trained army, equipped with the latest technology
                And the USSR lost in Afghanistan to the ragged Basmachi with Chinese DShK and several hundred Stingers. They had nothing more powerful

                Quote: selbrat
                And to squeeze the Mujahideen was a matter of time

                We had time - as many as 10 years, the population of Afghanistan decreased by 1/3. The USSR lost 511 planes and helicopters, 500 tanks (a whole tank corps!) And 1300 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. But the end of that war was not visible
                1. +5
                  8 July 2012 04: 18
                  Stinger warhead -5 kg
                  S-75 warhead - 200 kg

                  Stinger firing range - 5 km
                  S-75 firing range - 30 km

                  Max. Stinger's defeat height - 3800 meters
                  Max. S-75 defeat rate - 25000 meters


                  On TTX S-75 was mistaken everywhere.
                  The weight of warheads is 40-80 kg, depending on the model of the missile, 200 kg is if only a nuclear warhead.
                  Range - 30-50 km. again, depending on the type of missile - the older 11D is smaller, the newer 5Я23, 5В29 are larger.
                  The maximum height is up to 28000, again with newer missiles.
                  On the topic of the article, I more or less agree with the composition, the questions are only on the arrangement.
                2. Diesel
                  +2
                  8 July 2012 19: 28
                  Quote: Tram boor
                  Do you understand the difference between long-range air defense systems and "portable anti-aircraft missile systems"? Probably not.

                  And as I see, you will not notice the difference between b52 and su25 laughing laughing
                3. phantom359
                  +2
                  8 July 2012 20: 11
                  Tram boor, Are Blopipe and Javelin poor? Yeah, specialist. Learn materiel, poor student.
                4. mihos ve
                  +2
                  8 July 2012 20: 14
                  11 School schooler you goof - my advice is to get out of Wikibia - the quantity often wins the quality. And quality is quantity.
                5. +2
                  8 July 2012 20: 51
                  Quote: Tram boor
                  The rest are poor Bloupipe, Redai and Javellin with semi-automatic guidance and the inability to shoot in pursuit.

                  How can you speak so bad of the finest American weapons.
                6. +3
                  10 July 2012 13: 05
                  Let's decide ... the USSR, unlike the United States in Vietnam, did not lose the war in Afghanistan ........... The changed political leadership in the country, the rise to power of Gorbachev ready for any concessions to the West, and brought out the UNDEFEATED troops from Afghanistan ....
            2. +10
              8 July 2012 20: 49
              Quote: Fizruk
              The Soviet army raked from Afghanistan, although the Afghans had neither aircraft, nor tanks, nor S-75 air defense systems

              The American army is now raking in Afghanistan worse than the Soviet and is controlling its barracks in Kabul.
      2. +8
        7 July 2012 11: 40
        You know, sometimes drops from bounty. wink
        In one of the programs Discovery recognized the Soviet T-34 as the best tank, and in another "good old Kalash" became the best. I was very surprised. I must say thank you to the overseas uncles that at least they remembered that a worthy weapon, it turns out, can be made elsewhere something, except in the USA. laughing
        1. chukapabra
          -14
          7 July 2012 13: 15
          Quote: Dr. Pillkin
          I was very surprised

          Discovery, just many do not like it (by the way from both sides of the ocean) a fairly objective channel.
          1. phantom359
            +2
            8 July 2012 19: 56
            chukapabraWell bent. The objective channel.))))) I do not see the point of talking with you. Only in vain to strain your fingers on the clave.
      3. beech
        0
        7 July 2012 11: 52
        clear picture, +
      4. Alexey Pototsky
        0
        8 July 2012 21: 44
        I agree. The United States, or even NATO, always chooses a weak adversary. It turns out so, NATO, it's like a group of boxers - heavyweights will be knocked out by a homeless person and boast about it. Moreover, sometimes even from this homeless person he gets tinsel, mom don’t cry. angry laughing
      5. Alexey Pototsky
        +4
        8 July 2012 21: 48
        I agree. The United States, or rather NATO, always chooses for themselves a weak adversary. It's like a group of boxers - heavyweights are knocked out by a homeless person and after that boasts about it. And sometimes she grabs the tinsel from the wort, so that the mother does not grieve ... angry laughing
    2. Gym teacher
      -14
      7 July 2012 15: 33
      Quote: Diesel
      Nautilus, Ohio, Los Angeles Share a Pedestal


      And who do you offer ??

      Is the world's first nuclear submarine, the first to reach the North Pole under the ice, not worthy of the First Place ???

      Is Ohio not the best missile carrier in the world ?? The Americans deployed 24 ballistic missiles on an 18000 ton ship, Soviet engineers needed a Typhoon with a displacement of 20 tonnes for 50000 missiles !! Our microchips are the largest microchips in the world!


      Who can compare with Los Angeles. Proven silent killers who drowned the "aircraft carrier killer" Kursk right in front of the entire Northern Fleet !! For 35 years in Los Angeles, NOT a SINGLE accident with a nuclear reactor.
      1. sapulid
        +6
        7 July 2012 19: 10
        Fizruk, let's do it.

        Do you have any evidence that any boats were involved in the death of Kursk?

        You. Can you say that after some time the Yankees will not declassify the data on the accidents of their submarines, before that, were considered the standard?

        You can stick any weapon in the presence of volume. What about combat effectiveness?

        Troll go to the Pioneer Truth. He would have said something else, but they will be banned.
        1. Rider
          -8
          8 July 2012 02: 13
          Quote: sapulid
          Do you have any evidence that any boats were involved in the death of Kursk?


          sapulid, I think the intervention of the US Navy submarines is the most plausible explanation for the disaster. And all the subsequent fuss - for example, sawing off a damaged compartment.
          Even candidates for the role of "killer" are named - "Memphis" and "Toledo", silent killers of the Los-Angeles class, moreover, the Americans do not hide that these nuclear submarines were at the test site at the time of the death of Kursk
          The official version with an exploding torpedo does not roll at all.

          Quote: sapulid
          You. Can you say that after some time the Yankees will not declassify the data on the accidents of their submarines, before that, were considered the standard?

          Yes I can.
          If something happened, we would have known about it a long time ago. The loss of the boat is impossible to hide. Even a major accident, the accidental death of 20-30 submariners, will not escape the impudent western magazines.

          Quote: sapulid
          You can stick any weapon in the presence of volume. What about combat effectiveness?

          In terms of combat effectiveness, the Ohio is generally incomparable with the Typhoon.
          American submariners performed 151 successful launches of the super-missile Trident-2 (the main caliber of the Ohio), 4 launches ended in failure. An incredible result, nevertheless it is a fact.

          KON "Typhoon" - 0,3 (data from the 80s)
          KOH "Ohio" - 0,6
          This means, "Ohio" spent on combat patrols twice as long.

          4 boats of the Ohio project were converted into special operations ships, the nuclear submarine was re-equipped with 154 Tomahawks.
          1. phantom359
            +5
            8 July 2012 20: 24
            Rider,
            Storyteller. Straight Tom Clancy. He also drew his inspiration from his conjectures and facts, far-fetched. I especially liked the Kursk. Clancy hadn't thought of that.
          2. mihos ve
            0
            8 July 2012 20: 25
            You yourself really understand what kind of reality it is. The tragedy is not for the Navy - for the country. Someone for some reason turned around so that there would be no TROUBLE -Yes, e-fuck-th-th-you are the leader of the Country or
      2. Diesel
        0
        8 July 2012 19: 34
        Quote: Fizruk
        Over 35 years in Los Angeles NONE nuclear accident

        Are you from the Pentagon ??? even I can’t believe it laughing laughing For example, typhoons also officially had no accidents with the reactor for 32 years of service, but alas, you yourself will deny this)

        Quote: Fizruk
        silent killers


        About "Black holes" it means we forgot, ok boss laughing
        Okay, I will not feed the troll and I do not advise others (
      3. phantom359
        +1
        8 July 2012 20: 09
        Gym teacherBetter to take out the "Scorpion" and "Treshera", as well as those emergency boats that the NSA media did not let through (there is a very funny media outlet there). Your beloved Ohio and Los Angeles, in training battles, once made the nuclear submarine of pr 671. Operation Atrina. And the anti-submarine groups AUG very well put cancer ("Aport"). So, dear, you have a strongly exaggerated sense of worship of the American nuclear submarines. As one person above correctly said, if it were not for the hunchback, then it is not known who surpassed whom, in terms of the quality of weapons. This applies not only to the fleet, but also to aviation (Su27 is higher in combat qualities than F15) and ground forces (here it is generally out of competition)
      4. +1
        9 July 2012 21: 35
        Gym teacher,
        Is Ohio not the best missile carrier in the world ?? The Americans deployed 24 ballistic missiles on an 18000 ton ship, Soviet engineers needed a Typhoon with a displacement of 20 tonnes for 50000 missiles !! Our ICs are the largest ICs in the world!
        And now appreciate the Project "Lira" (NATO "Alpha"), the crew of 32 officers, and then only by order of the USSR Navy, the boat with its BIUS could be completely controlled by 8 officers from the wheelhouse, and this is in 1970 ??? where is the analogue of the USA?
      5. 0
        10 July 2012 11: 51
        Quote: Fizruk
        Who can compare with Los Angeles. Proven silent killers who drowned the "aircraft carrier killer" Kursk right in front of the entire Northern Fleet !! For 35 years in Los Angeles, NOT a SINGLE accident with a nuclear reactor.

        oh you're lying! oh you're lying! I won't say anything about Kursk, eternal memory to sailors! maybe there was a boat, but about the accident on the Ameican submarines this is a lie!
        and their reactors exploded and something else happened! It’s just that they, the Americans, have long made the rule that even military loss can be attributed to technical problems, a huge number of examples, the most recent war in Yugoslavia and Iraq, when they wrote off the downed planes as technical problems. For a large amount of time they have learned to hide their mistakes! At the same time, fooling its inhabitants and the whole world! Indeed, according to their own propaganda, American is the best, and if something catastrophic happened, they can’t see the money for the army!





      6. vaddy72
        0
        24 January 2013 16: 37
        Well, and Vali live in their beloved SyShyA. .. For a barrel of jam and a basket of cookies
  3. Tirpitz
    +8
    7 July 2012 10: 38
    And where are the German type 7 on this list, they have influenced world history much more than on this list.
    1. +5
      7 July 2012 11: 27
      Quote: Tirpitz
      And where are the German type 7 on this list, they have influenced world history much more than on this list.

      Navy of France, Germany, England, Italy, Japan, South Korea do not have submarines, they still go to sea pies on pies
      1. chukapabra
        0
        7 July 2012 13: 17
        Quote: APASUS
        Navy of France, Germany, England, Italy, Japan, South Korea do not have submarines, they still go to sea pies on pies


        No, just talking about the top ten and talking about the Premier League.
    2. +7
      7 July 2012 12: 43
      Quote: Tirpitz
      Where's the German type 7 on this list?

      The author of the article compiled his rating for the channel movie Discovery he does not have a relationship. bully
      They have kakraz seven in the first place.
      (original film here http://idiscovery.ru/desyat-luchshih/1877-desyat-luchshih-podvodnyh-lodok.html )
      1. Tirpitz
        +2
        7 July 2012 15: 44
        It is now clear.
  4. Spartak
    +4
    7 July 2012 10: 52
    Come on guys, good. This is Discovery. We all perfectly understand how they compose such ratings.
    It’s only a shame that some guy, somewhere in some Jamaica, having looked at their ratings, will make a conclusion for himself: they say that the Americans are the coolest. And so we didn’t stand by.
    1. Tirpitz
      +4
      7 July 2012 11: 38
      They make up their ratings in the same way as in the transmission "shock force" - each praises his own.
    2. Gym teacher
      -5
      7 July 2012 15: 23
      Quote: Spartak
      We all perfectly understand how they compose such ratings.
      It’s only a shame that some guy, somewhere in some Jamaica, having looked at their ratings, will make a conclusion for himself: they say that the Americans are the coolest. And so we didn’t stand by.



      Well, who do you offer in the first place ??
      1. Spartak
        +3
        7 July 2012 18: 02
        I don’t propose anyone, let the experts do this. But just not biased.
        1. Tram_ham
          -7
          7 July 2012 18: 59
          So it’s immediately obvious, the pedestal - Ohio, Los Angeles and Nautilus

          Three great projects in the history of underwater shipbuilding. No matter how indignant we are, Ohio and Los Angeles are the most advanced in their class.
          Nautilus - there's nothing to talk about. Shipbuilding Revolution
          1. +1
            9 July 2012 01: 51
            more specifically what is their perfection if our boreas can destroy them without entering the zone of their locators. or you will deny the land sailor
  5. itr
    0
    7 July 2012 11: 01
    Which was required to prove. But look how the article is politely written
    first place went to the first nuclear submarine no less
    1. beech
      0
      7 July 2012 11: 54
      American production))))
      1. Tram_ham
        -1
        7 July 2012 20: 39
        Pindocs stole the idea from Stalin
        1. 0
          8 July 2012 18: 01
          In the sense, the idea was stolen in the form of an ideological move, i.e. your PR. Kalash pi-NdoSyatya was recognized only after the whole world spoke about him and it was no longer possible to lie.
  6. M. Peter
    +2
    7 July 2012 11: 04
    From the point of view of propaganda, we need to learn from them. They seem to admit that the "councils" knew how to make boats, but ours, whatever one may say, is still better. The last 3 places are behind the American submarines. And figs with them.
  7. M. Peter
    +12
    7 July 2012 11: 37
    Could have included "Antei". Also, as it were, they are written and pooped in the US AUG. winked
    What just got the title of "Aircraft Carrier Assassins"?



    1. beech
      +2
      7 July 2012 11: 55
      Could have included "Antei" !!! but could include boreas)))
      1. M. Peter
        +8
        7 July 2012 12: 05
        Well, the Boreas have not yet shown themselves. But Antei still has a lot of things on his account.
        The same Kursk, notorious for everyone, went unnoticed as long as it conducted surveillance among US ships, as long as they carried Yugoslavia. As the saying goes, he was waiting for only an order for destruction, and he could, quite like that, blow his nose to his nose unexpectedly.
        1. chukapabra
          -9
          7 July 2012 13: 19
          Quote: M.Pyotr
          Kursk went unnoticed as long as it conducted surveillance among US ships, as long as they carried Yugoslavia

          ambiguous pun.
        2. 0
          8 July 2012 00: 26
          What do Antei have in their account?
    2. Tirpitz
      0
      7 July 2012 13: 35
      Received just like that. Since no one was killed. could theoretically sink.
  8. +7
    7 July 2012 12: 13
    + Well done to the author. Sneezing into place, I don't see anything offensive from the discovery (our NTV and Co. pour out much more slop), but I wrote it competently and interestingly. It's a pity "Komsomolets", but the anchor from our "Typhoon" impressed. Regarding the amers - I listened to my sonar experience at the Los Angeles and Ogai test range, and to be honest, ours are noisier and there is nothing to be done. True, the fish and the Komsomol member did not have to listen.
    And their boats and accidents died, they did not happen much less often than ours. 2 US nuclear submarines with a full team - Thrasher and Scorpio. In the entire history of the USSR, not a single submarine with the entire team has perished.
    1. chukapabra
      -5
      7 July 2012 13: 35
      Quote: Drednout
      2 US nuclear submarines with a full team - Thrasher and Scorpio. In the entire history of the USSR, not a single submarine with the entire team has perished.

      Killed 5 nuclear submarines and 7 diesel.
      From the nuclear submarine - with the entire crew KURSK died
      Diesel with the whole crew - Щ 117, М-200, М-256.с-80, б-37, к-129,
      Well, the number of dead sailors in accidents in the USSR / Russia was an order of magnitude higher than that of the United States, as well as accidents with numerous casualties.
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%
      D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D
      0%B0%D1%85_(%D1%81_1945_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0)
      1. +6
        7 July 2012 13: 56
        Quote: chukapabra
        Killed 5 nuclear submarines and 7 diesel.
        From the nuclear submarine - with the entire crew KURSK died
        Diesel with the whole crew - Щ 117, М-200, М-256.с-80, б-37, к-129,

        I am aware of this. I repeat about the death with the entire crew - NUCLEAR P / L under the USSR, not a single one! Kursk was already killed in the Russian Federation! Diesel men with all the crew are another matter. Accidents with fatalities (unfortunately) in the United States occurred even on the Nautilus (moreover, more than once), with the majority of the crew being irradiated. And also - "Seawulf", a coastal analogue of nuclear power plants pl "Triton", "Sargo", etc. The list of not particularly advertised US Navy avrias can be continued for a very long time.
        Well, regarding the ratios of human casualties of the USA / USSR, you are most likely right, but I do not consider it a virtue to relish.
        Our and western submariners are worthy of eternal memory.
        PS I do not consider Wikipedia credibility and it is useless to use it as an argument (I won’t even follow the link).
        1. chukapabra
          -4
          7 July 2012 14: 11
          Quote: Drednout
          Well, regarding the ratios of human casualties of the USA / USSR, you are most likely right, but I do not consider it a virtue to relish.
          Our and western submariners are worthy of eternal memory.

          Savor ?! What nonsense, my father is a submariner and I lived at the base in Gadzhievo for up to 16 years. Just writing facts and nothing more.
          PS I do not consider Wikipedia credibility and it is useless to use it as an argument (I won’t even follow the link).

          But in vain, an interesting table of submarine accidents, causes and consequences on all fleets of the world.
          Although I understand, the aunt in the yard said. more credibility. Although you can read Cherkashin, all the accidents are described in some detail.
          1. +8
            7 July 2012 15: 30
            Quote: chukapabra
            I have a father a submariner and I lived at the base in Gadzhievo until 16 years old

            I am sincerely glad that I was mistaken, considering that you relished our human sacrifices.
            I regret that your father, a submariner, did not teach you the elementary rules of politeness with the interlocutor. I do not exclude that there are interesting and authoritative facts for you in your favorite Wikipedia, but I had enough of those that I had to make sure of the one-sided coverage of which. About the aunt from the yard - we write off the lack of decent education.
            I surely read Cherkashin, thanks for the advice.
          2. Starcom1183
            +3
            9 July 2012 00: 46
            Oh, how cool .... just not you! you can live anywhere .. gadyukino, vidyaevo, faces, polar ... but you're not a submariner! and you know about boats as much as you know love from the suburbs, and even less.
          3. +4
            9 July 2012 02: 06
            Yeah. this is the height of hypocrisy to spit in what your father defended, apparently popcorn and french fries above the honor of a naval officer, who, as I understand it, is your father. apparently when amers still decide to attack us, you first sign up for USS. have you really raised such a pig in Gadzhievo?
  9. Fox
    +2
    7 July 2012 12: 51
    guys! and for you, the discovery channel is a great authority!? to me, personally, in parallel with their opinion, all their ratings and other nonsense! ...
  10. Grits
    +3
    7 July 2012 16: 35
    Regarding one or two buildings - these are just historically established schools of underwater shipbuilding. As well as different schools in armored vehicles or aviation. There are pros and cons.
    In general, I am proud that I built and tested the most modern Russian nuclear-powered ships for 9 years.
    1. Tram boom
      -9
      7 July 2012 16: 39
      Quote: Gritsa
      that for 9 years he built and tested the most modern Russian nuclear powered ships.


      Modern Russian nuclear powered ships, by definition, cannot be modern. You just finished building what was developed in the USSR
  11. +2
    7 July 2012 16: 51
    Is it already possible to laugh at this rating? .. Or, according to tradition, wait for the sacramental word "shovel"? ..

    Minus, minus and minus again. Just like all the other pseudo-ratings from Discovery. It is difficult to come up with more nonsense with their approach to assessments. IMHO
    1. Tram boom
      -9
      7 July 2012 17: 03
      Quote: Chicot 1
      Is it already possible to laugh at this rating? .. Or, according to tradition, wait for the sacramental word "shovel"? ..

      Minus, minus and minus again. Just like all the other pseudo-ratings from Discovery. It is difficult to come up with more nonsense with their approach to assessments. IMHO


      And who do you think is worthy of the first places. Could it be that the Typhoon bespontovy water carrier?
      1. spdm
        -1
        8 July 2012 13: 11
        Quote: Tram boor
        And who do you think is worthy of the first places. Could it be that the Typhoon bespontovy water carrier?

        A typhoon was built with a 30% buoyancy margin (it is not clear why with its size) for diving it was necessary to collect over 12 tons of water (like ballast)
        1. Starcom1183
          +6
          8 July 2012 17: 33
          All who served in the 941s unanimously say that this is the best ship that is built for people.
  12. +3
    7 July 2012 17: 11
    Funny Discovery Program))), but how authoritative and weighty it is for renegades and lumpers. As you read the opuses of the children of our military, you think that either the foster children, or the command staff were not formed from those. Some kind of Trotskyite deviationist defeatists. That is why in 1991 no one lifted a finger, according to the peasant principle of "obedience to the tela of two mothers sucks", they waited, and how will it all end. And only the Afghan units were ready. But they were disbanded. It's a pity.
  13. Lexad
    0
    7 July 2012 18: 04
    Where's the shark?
    1. +2
      8 July 2012 09: 45
      "Shark" and "Typhoon" ship one and the same pr.941. It all depends on the classification of NATO or Russian. By the way, the article says that the durable hull of this ship is made of titanium (for that matter, it is made of titanium alloy - pure titanium can never be used to make PCs), but this is not true.
      1. spdm
        0
        8 July 2012 13: 09
        Quote: desava
        from titanium (for that matter, from a titanium alloy - pure titanium can never be used to make PCs), so this is not true.

        Of course, alloy, you should not pay attention to such trifles. Giving your wife earrings made of gold of 583 samples, you do not say that this is an alloy containing 42% copper bully
        1. 0
          8 July 2012 13: 12
          I agree with you, but I wanted to leave the emphasis on the fact that "Sharks" ("Typhoons") are made of steel.
          1. +4
            8 July 2012 14: 49
            Hello desava
            Inside the steel shell of the Typhoon's light hull, there are two strong titanium hulls + a torpedo compartment, a central post and aft mechanical compartment, which are three more separate durable hulls.

            I have no data on how much this wunderwafer was worth, by all indications - more than a nuclear strike carrier.

            Now, to be honest, speaking frankly: if I were offered to choose a boat for service, I would undoubtedly choose the Typhoon. Purely logically: five isolated strong hulls, 19 compartments, two spaced-apart power plants, and weapons carried outside the main strong hulls probably somehow affect the survivability of the boat. Although ... despite all these technical means, the Soviet nuclear submarines for some reason did not differ in reliability.
            What do you think? smile
            1. +1
              8 July 2012 15: 35
              I agree with you. Shark has no equal in habitability. She, I repeat, has a steel case - at one time he dealt with the stamped documentation for this project. In support of this, I can only write that titanium ships were produced by the Krasnoye Sormovo plant in Nizhny Novgorod. And Project 941 was produced by Sevmash.
              1. Starcom1183
                0
                8 July 2012 17: 36
                I do not agree, Sevmash, like red sorm, mastered titanium, for example: 661, 685,705. Yes, and barracudas and condors were built in Sevmash.
                1. 0
                  8 July 2012 18: 28
                  Now I am far from similar information. As far as I know, the above ships were produced only in the Lower. There was no talk of completion at Sevmash.
                  1. Starcom1183
                    +1
                    9 July 2012 00: 48
                    i serve on a similar ship
                    1. 0
                      9 July 2012 02: 53
                      Starcom1183 if you really serve, tell us can we wash the amers ?, and then I’m tired of reading this tram.
            2. Starcom1183
              +2
              8 July 2012 17: 34
              PC made of steel in the 941s.
  14. sapulid
    +2
    7 July 2012 19: 46
    In the course, in the subject, two offended. Fizruk and Tr. boor. Sometimes, trolls with a twist, giving some arguments. Why not argue with your opponent? Only if you compare, then compare the equivalent. Data on many emergency situations are classified. None of the opposing sides will talk about the free detection of boats of a probable adversary until they are in service. Advertising, it is in the Karakum, advertising. Each sandpiper, its own swamp ... War, God forbid, if it happens, will show.
  15. DDG1000
    -11
    7 July 2012 21: 06
    Dear Vladimir ("Fizruk") and Rustam ("Tram boor")! It is better not to argue here, because it is useless, because all losers and cattle-patriots are sitting on this site laughing

    Sometimes it’s funny for me to read nonsense written by some kind of woe-journalist who manages to make several mistakes in two sentences ... Well, okay. I would like to finish completely different.

    Especially for you "patriots" a selection of jokes on the topic - "star fever":

    1) In the assembly hall - two portraits: Academician Ivanov, who invented a steam locomotive, a ship and an airplane, and Academician Petrov, who invented Academician Ivanov.

    2) Poster: "Russia is the homeland of priority".

    3) - Who invented the x-ray?
    - In the XXII century the Russian clerk Ivan Pushkov already knew him. According to the chronicle, he used to say to his wife Martha: "I can see right through you, bitch!"

    4) - In the foreign press you can find allegations that the Englishman Newton invented the law of universal gravitation, says the lecturer. - However, long before Newton, this law acted in Russia.

    5) An Englishman: "A piece of wire was found in our excavations of the XNUMXth century, which indicates the existence of a wire telegraph."
    Russian: "But they did not find anything in our country, which indicates the existence of a wireless telegraph."

    For those who have forgotten history, I will remind you that there is a famous phrase - "Russia is the homeland of elephants." wink

    So, this anonymous phrase, which appeared among the people as a response to the "struggle for the priority of national science", which unfolded since 1946. Formed on the model of official stamps: "Russia is the homeland of radio"; "Russia is the homeland of aviation".

    PS
    The UN has declared the Year of the Elephant. Various countries publish books on the "elephant" theme. USA - Comic book cover featuring an elephant, as well as pistols, daggers and gushing blood. The name is "Spy Elephant". France is a bright book. On the cover is a naked beauty riding an elephant. The title is "Love and Elephants". Great Britain - an academic two-volume edition in a morocco cover. The name is simple - "Elephants". Poland - a collection of humoresques called "Something about elephants". Bulgaria - a small book "The Bulgarian elephant is the younger brother of the big Russian elephant." And in the USSR three skinny brochures were published: "Lenin on Elephants", "The Soviet Elephant - the Largest Elephant in the World" and "The USSR - the Homeland of Elephants".
    1. +5
      7 July 2012 22: 23
      Quote: DDG1000
      Dear Vladimir ("Fizruk") and Rustam ("Tram boor")! It is better not to argue here, because it is useless, because all losers and cattle-patriots are sitting on this site

      Michael, apparently someone offended you a lot?
    2. 0
      9 July 2012 02: 59
      unlike us patriots, you are American jo.olises. so dig deeper into Uncle Sam. race
  16. Captain_old
    +4
    7 July 2012 21: 16
    Quote: Fizruk
    And who do you offer ??

    Is the world's first nuclear submarine, the first to reach the North Pole under the ice, not worthy of the First Place ???

    Is the first boat in the world that emerged at the North Pole not worthy of any place? Is the first boat in the world to break pack ice and give a missile salvo not worthy of any place? Is the first boat in the world to launch 16 missiles in a minute and a half n not worthy of any place?

    Is Ohio not the best missile carrier in the world ?? The Americans deployed 24 ballistic missiles on an 18000 ton ship, Soviet engineers needed a Typhoon with a displacement of 20 tonnes for 50000 missiles !! Our ICs are the largest ICs in the world!


    Who can compare with Los Angeles. Proven silent killers who drowned the "aircraft carrier killer" Kursk right in front of the entire Northern Fleet !! For 35 years in Los Angeles, NOT a SINGLE accident with a nuclear reactor.

    Go, I’ve seen it on TV, but there ...
    1. Tram_ham
      -2
      8 July 2012 01: 24
      Quote: Kapitan_old
      Is the first boat in the world that emerged at the North Pole not worthy of any place?


      The world's first boat surfacing at the North Pole is the American submarine Skate, the record was set on March 17, 1959

      Quote: Kapitan_old
      Is the first boat in the world to break pack ice and give a missile salvo not worthy of any place?

      There is a Typhoon on the list, but this trough is not worthy of a pedestal

      Quote: Kapitan_old
      Is the first boat in the world to launch 16 missiles in a minute and a half n not worthy of any place?

      No. Technically, this can be done by any submarine missile carrier (in fact, this is the main task of the SSBN, otherwise why do they carry 16-20, or even 24 missiles, across the oceans)?
      You cannot compare the outdated trough of Project 667BDRM with the Ohio, which spends 2/3 of its time on patrol and is designed for 60 years of active service.

      Ohio launched 155 Trident 2 super rockets, 151 successful, 4 failures - THIS IS A PERFORMANCE !!
      1. +1
        8 July 2012 09: 55
        Dear Tram Cad, you really are CUM. What do you know about the "obsolete trough pr.667BDRM"?
        Technically, any missile carrier can do it ... Can you imagine how a submarine behaves when carrying out rocket firing, what forces are acting on it, in what ways it is obsessed at a given depth? For the single-hull "Ohio" it is an even more complicated and risky operation.
        151 successful launch, 4 failures. I don’t remember who is on this site, but already wrote that the criteria for evaluating the success of a launch are determined by the task. Task: the rocket should leave the rocket mine - it’s out, the task has been completed, and the fact that it has not flown further no longer concerns anyone.
        1. spdm
          +1
          8 July 2012 19: 00
          Quote: desava
          Task: the rocket should leave the rocket mine - it’s out, the task has been completed, and the fact that it didn’t fly further no longer concerns anyone.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlpMceNETbQ
          Look very interesting laughing
      2. Captain_old
        +2
        8 July 2012 09: 57
        Quote: Tram_ham
        There is a Typhoon on the list, but this trough is not worthy of a pedestal

        And who told you that I was about "Tvifun"? I'm talking about K-447.
      3. +3
        8 July 2012 14: 50
        Quote: Tram_ham
        Ohio launched 155 Trident 2 super rockets, 151 successful, 4 failures - THIS IS A PERFORMANCE !!


        Actually:
        From 4 December 1989 year to 19 December 2009 year, 130 successful launches were made.
        Super rockets?
        Compared to the American Trident family missiles, the R-29RM loses a bit in terms of firing accuracy (KVO 500 meters versus 360 for Trident-1 and 120 for Trident-2). However, American missiles are inferior in terms of energy-mass perfection - the amount of thrown weight referred to the starting weight of the rocket. For Р-29РМ this indicator is 46 units, against 33 for Trident-1 and 37,5 for Trident-2. It should be noted that today the R-29РМ rocket holds a record for this indicator among ballistic missile submarines. Due to the outstanding tactical and technical characteristics of the P-29РМ and Р-29РУМ missiles in the journal Österreichische Militärische Zeitschrift (2001. No. 4. R. 473-480) are defined as "a masterpiece of naval rocket science." With the help of the R-29RM rocket, another record was set. August 6 1991 of the year in 21: 07 during Operation Hippopotamus by the K-407 Novomoskovsk submarine missile under the command of captain 2 of rank SV For the first time in the world, Yegorova launched a full ammunition from 16 missiles R-29RM from an underwater position. The first unsuccessful attempt to carry out Operation Hippopotamus was made from the K-84 in the 1989 year. The launch of a full ammunition load from the K-407 as of February 2010 of the year remains the only one in the world (the maximum tested number of Trident-2 missiles in one launch is 4 missiles).
        1. io_stalin
          +2
          8 July 2012 23: 43
          Operation Hippo-2:

          Immediately 16 wonderful UFOs laughing


          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A73dlbJhp9M



          http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C1%E5%E3%E5%EC%EE%F2_(%EE%EF%E5%F0%E0%F6%E8%FF)
  17. CC-18a
    +3
    7 July 2012 22: 52
    Discovery such a Discovery fool

    Even if you remove the country of manufacture and stupidly read the characteristics, then all the highest places in the ranking will be occupied precisely by Soviet boats ... and the Amers' ones simply fade in comparison with those characteristics that we had.

    Even though it is strange that such boats with such characteristics could be made in the USSR, eh ... the flight of engineering of Soviet people was always 100-200 years ahead of any of the most outstanding geniuses in the United States, and this is not praise, but simply the fact that it was done that was reached.
    1. Rider
      -4
      8 July 2012 02: 26
      Quote: CC-18a
      Even if you remove the country of manufacture and stupidly read the characteristics, then all the highest places in the ranking will be occupied by Soviet boats


      An urgent need to remove from the list "Nautilus" - the first nuclear submarine to revolutionize the submarine shipbuilding

      And the "Ohio" also needs to be removed, otherwise it is somehow unpatriotic - the "American" has 24 missiles with 18 tons of displacement. It took Soviet designers 000 tons to house 50 missiles. What a disgrace...

      And Los Angeles remove naxer, patriots can not know about this project. Silent killers, developing 35 nodes without any titanium hulls and LMT reactors.
      For 35 years not a single radiation accident on 62 project boats

      For the place of Los Angeles you need to put "Lear". I do not care that of the six boats of the project, three were excluded from the fleet due to accidents in the reactor compartment

      Quote: CC-18a
      the flight of engineering of Soviet people was always 100-200 years ahead of any of the most outstanding geniuses in the United States


      The American nuclear submarine was the first to reach the North Pole in 1958. The atomic submarine of the USSR repeated this only five years later.
      What 100-200 years of excellence are you talking about? laughing
      1. +2
        8 July 2012 21: 26
        Quote: Ryder
        patriots should not know about this project

        Shapkozakidateli are not patriots, but harmful fools. Incompetent. Only they can "read stupidly according to the characteristics"
    2. spdm
      +1
      8 July 2012 13: 03
      Quote: CC-18a
      and 100-200 years ahead of any of the most outstanding geniuses in the United States, and this is not praise, but simply the fact that what was done was achieved.

      Well, 100-200 years, you started this up a bit. laughing
  18. +5
    8 July 2012 01: 07
    question to trolls your salary in dollars
    pay il in bespontovye rubles
    just somehow I can’t believe that there is such a fucking guy who will claim
    all day long that the USSR is shit and OSHA (United States of America) ice
    1. CC-20a
      +3
      8 July 2012 02: 01

      I don’t know how to embed a video here. on this current link
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8HE7jxjV7M&feature=player_embedded#!

      Information war against Russia.
  19. Grits
    +4
    8 July 2012 02: 53
    The tram boor threw a pebble at me about modern boats. here I completely agree with him. indeed, it was the Soviet boats that I was completing. From corpses made in the USSR. If you also take into account that I started this activity in 91, then all the more so .. However, we then built "Granites" and "Bars" (presented here as "Pikes"). Even Discovery agrees that these are very good ships. Not worse than Sivulf.
    And only Yasen and Borey can be called modern Russian ships. By the way, I personally saw the prepared cases for them back in the mid-90s. Only now they were honored to finish building ... Despondency ...
  20. mind1954
    +1
    8 July 2012 04: 41
    What they invented with their own heads, they built with their own hands,
    and what they built, they had! And what they had, they swam on that!
    And there was no one to be offended!

    Unlike the present! To do, except how to steal is bad,
    they don’t know anything, but requests ... ??? Why's that ?!
  21. NickitaDembelnulsa
    +2
    8 July 2012 05: 59
    Oh, the class that almost half of our submarines, but I do not agree with the 941 Typhoon project, it should have been closer to the rating leaders.
  22. +2
    8 July 2012 09: 59
    In general, the article is not bad. Corresponds to the relative state of affairs. Yes, Nautilus deserves to be at the top of the list. Yes, Losi have every right to be in the top three. Places can be changed depending on the criteria by which the position is determined.
  23. gor
    gor
    -2
    8 July 2012 10: 14
    I know that the discovery about the American channel and the list is incorrect. And the first six places must be given to the U.S. submarines and the last 4 boats of the United States. Here is how most comments sound if between the lines.)))))))))))) and now imagine the discovery Russian channel. I have a question how many boats the United States, would be in the top ten if it would hit at all. The circle, there would be no analogues and analogues have no analogues in this spirit)))))))))))))))) ) read Urya patriots of some kind of spiritual education literature and maybe then you will understand that it is the judgments that are peculiar to you and there is a weakness
    1. +1
      8 July 2012 18: 22
      Weakness ... is a departure from reality.
      Nobody ever said that amers are bad sailors (I just emphasize the opposite - they are good sailors).
      Their boats are also good ... The mere fact that in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk we listened to our ZAS transmissions from the ground complex - already says a lot.
      ..
      They are not fighters, not Fighters.
      The task is to quietly get in with a quiet glanders. Inaudible, invisible .... and fucking .. for the full program.
      Yes, read ... Native American cowboy cycles .... and everything will become clear.
      Sailors are good, boats are good.
      The ideology of application is not a star in the fields of the Red Army !!
  24. 0
    8 July 2012 10: 27
    Of all the submarines listed, perhaps only the "Shuki", "Antei" and "Sharks" can be considered comparable to similar US submarines for some of those. solutions and certain types of weapons such as "Shkval" torpedoes. Although...
    American torpedoes, although far in speed from the Squalls, surpass the Shkvali in intelligence and ability to be controlled throughout the site after launch.

    With ballistic and cruise missiles, the situation looks much worse, as well as with noise, and maintainability, habitability, etc. .. That is. all that allows the US submarine fleet to achieve such a coefficient of operational tension (KOH) that neither the Soviet nor the Russian fleet dreamed of. And it will be easier for the Americans with accidents.
    The same vaunted Granites surpassed the Tomahawks only in size and weight, as a result of which the American SSGNs of a much smaller displacement than the Antei can take on board a twice as large supply of missile launchers and pack them several pieces into standard BR missile silos. The widely advertised ability of Granites to redistribute tasks between RCs in one salvo has never been tested in a real jamming environment in which radio channels of information exchange between RCs can be suppressed quite elementary
    I do not want to mention other "kibenimatics" such as BIUS, radars, GAS, etc. Day and night .. Although everything looked beautiful on paper ...... about 30 years ago
    1. iegudeil
      0
      4 August 2012 15: 49
      Wow, how smart are you, do you read a lot of magazines?

      American torpedoes, although far in speed from the Squalls, are superior to the Scale in intellect


      What is called "bent". It can be seen that the person is not technical. Only complete "nerds" think that a piece of iron that performs some kind of action has intelligence. There can be no intelligence in a piece of iron. The piece of iron has only programmed modes of operation.
      Wire-driven torpedoes in the USSR began to be introduced in 1973.

      ... (KON) which neither the Soviet nor the Russian fleet had ever dreamed of.

      I admit that OHIO has a good CON. But!!! Is there cunning here. Perhaps the transfer of these boats to another base also entered KOH. Is the mooring also KOH? If you enter these data into the calculation procedure, then our boats may also have a good KOH.
      But for our boats only autonomous navigation i.e. the performance of a specific combat mission outside its territorial waters.
      How was this coefficient calculated for OHIO? Missile parking at the NATO base is also KOH ???

      Granitov’s widely advertised ability to redistribute tasks between CDs in one salvo has never been tested in a real jamming environment in which radio channels for exchanging information between CDs can be suppressed quite simply


      You can "suppress elementary" on the computer in toys. For "elementary suppression" it is necessary to place such a barrage that the "suppressor" himself will go blind.
      Pulse noise is generally useless in this version, because The "flock" is synchronized to its own algorithm, and the distance separates it from the target is much greater than between the elements of the flock. The members of the pack communicate with each other in short, according to their own, unknown algorithm. Intercept decode then change, and then re-encode and give a false command ??? From the outside it is impossible. The delay time is too long. Even if the one who intercepts completely knows the whole algorithm of work. There is only one way to disrupt the work of the "pack". This is so that in the "flock" its own "duck" flew and gave false commands. And even this may not help. most likely the "flock" works on the majority principle and one defective "bastard" cannot change anything.

      Day and night .. Although on paper everything looked beautiful.


      Indeed, when the darkness in my head ...
  25. Captain_old
    +1
    8 July 2012 10: 41
    Quote: Tram_ham
    There is a Typhoon on the list, but this trough is not worthy of a pedestal

    And who told you that I was about "Tvifun"? I'm talking about K-447.
  26. +4
    8 July 2012 11: 50
    The ideas laid down in Komsomolets and Lira are the future of the nuclear submarine, too much they give serious advantages, and the rating)) is a normal American rating. And most importantly, I was taught by people who went on various projects and when I hear the word elite, I remember them ...
    1. +1
      8 July 2012 18: 16
      Lyra ...
      a nightmare ... that of their admirals, that of ours.
      Try to expel .. fly, specialist in liquid TN? Do not give him an apartment?
      The cars were too good ... for their time.
      What a brilliant thought ... the developers believed in the Union, believed in people.
      It turned out ... perestroika, publicity ... market ...
      What can I say.
  27. 0
    8 July 2012 13: 13
    "Lyra" was just ditched by the discrepancy between the ideas embedded in its design and the level of technology of that time. In particular, the use of liquid metal cooling in the Lyra's power plant led to the fact that the cooling circuits had to be constantly heated, otherwise the cooler would solidify and the whole boat had to be thrown into the trash, which happened with the first Lyra. Therefore, no more than ten of them were built, and even they were written off pretty quickly, there were too many headaches with them.

    The Americans are the opposite. Those. they do not give up new ideas, but try to allow only those that are sufficiently developed to be introduced. Of course, and they happen to fly, but not so often.

    The Americans are the opposite. Those. they do not give up new ideas, but try to allow only those that are sufficiently developed to be introduced. Of course, and they happen to fly, but not so often.
    1. spdm
      -1
      8 July 2012 13: 57
      Quote: gregor6549
      The lyres of liquid metal cooling led to the fact that the cooling circuits had to be constantly kept warm, otherwise the cooler would solidify and the whole boat had to be thrown into the trash, which happened to the first Lyra. Therefore, no more than ten of them were built, and even they were written off pretty quickly, there were too many headaches with them.

      Due to problems with the quality of construction, slags formed in the coolant circuit and clogged the heat-conducting channels.
      1. -1
        8 July 2012 18: 28
        Did Alexander personally clean the slags?
        In heat channels?

        Build quality?
        Are you aware that solid sodium does not exist? Is it flammable?
        ... clogged ... channels ...
        ..
        Brains ... clog ... with liquid ... guano.
        1. spdm
          +1
          8 July 2012 19: 39
          Quote: Igarr
          Brains ... clog ... with liquid ... guano.

          Quote: Igarr
          Did Alexander personally clean the slags?
          In heat channels?

          Well, actually slags are usually oxides and compounds. This happened due to microcracks in the heat exchangers of the second (water circuit)
          Alkali metals have high chemical activity. The greatest danger is the reaction with water. Therefore, in systems with steam-water cycles, devices must be provided that ensure explosion safety. Contact with steam or with oxygen is not dangerous (there is no sustained combustion reaction), but in order to avoid oxidation of the metal, its contact with air should be excluded, since Na oxide is insoluble in liquid Na and Na – K, and the inclusion of oxides can lead to blockage of individual channels. The presence of sodium oxides in liquid Na and Na — K also deteriorates the corrosive properties of the heat carriers. Sodium and Na – K should be stored in an inert gas (He, Ar).

          However, during the operation of the Project 705 boats, significant shortcomings also appeared that impeded their effective use. In particular, serious difficulties arose in providing basing (due to the need to constantly maintain the primary loop of the reactor in a hot state). Regular special operations were required to prevent oxidation of the coolant alloy, constant monitoring of its condition and periodic regeneration (removal of oxides).

          Igarr about your guano be careful laughing
          1. 0
            8 July 2012 20: 13
            Personally, to Alexander ... guano .. has nothing to do with ..
            The commentary is comprehensive.
            .. And here ... immature brains .. may well calculate .. that .. BUILD UNABLE.

            There were no people, military ... to keep the reactor hot. This turns out to keep three shifts. But as? Then?
            Providing ... liquid melt - ho-ho, a challenge for the institute of the problem.
            Not for a combat boat.
            ...
            So ... with his own.
            Alexander is right ..... life is even more right.
            1. iegudeil
              0
              4 August 2012 16: 40
              There were no people, military ... to keep the reactor hot.

              The problem was not solved organizationally. Keeping the reactor at MKU is not a problem. In the third flotilla (Western Faces), they constantly kept one boat at the base on duty. MKU mode (Minimum Controlled Level).
              Indeed, for the introduction from a cold state to the MCU, a minimum of 4 hours is required. This is only if the reactor is prepared for heating. And if something is not ready, then it is not known how long it may take.
              Apparently there were problems in creating the infrastructure for servicing these boats. For example, statement on preventive repair. The admirals did not want to trouble themselves.
              But the mode of constant readiness is very important for this class of boats. Effective protection can be deployed in a short time. Of course, for the operation of such boats you need not 2, but 3 crews per hull. There is no real gain in the number of servants.
              In the event of an accident at sea, there are also a lot of problems.
    2. iegudeil
      0
      4 August 2012 01: 48
      Most likely Lyrae became victims of the behind-the-scenes deals of "our" leadership with amers. A submarine of this class must always be ready for combat use and must not stand aimlessly at the pier.
      Remember at what time Lyra was destroyed. When "our" grief leaders fell into complete insanity. The first Lyra was also frozen when they signed START.
      Our Russian fleet was often held hostage by politicians. This is 1905 and 1918 and 1941. The tradition of "our" politicians continues in our time. Putya passed Kursk. Now there are games with Bulava. The possibility of making a deal with amers is demonstrated. But amerovsky establishment demonstrates boorish pressure and Putya kicked up. We must catch up.
      Shameful politicians among the staunch and courageous people.
  28. +3
    8 July 2012 13: 36
    And about the Typhoon. Of course, it's a monster in size. But on the other hand, he was the first serial Soviet carrier of solid-fuel ballistic missiles. Prior to that, all attempts to create boats with such BR ended, at best, with a prototype. In addition, on Typhoon, a modification of the Skat SJC was installed on the Typhoon, with a detection range of about 200 km and decent noise immunity. And the designer took good care of the survivability of the boat. Those. do not divide everything into black and white. Each design has a ton of shades.
    1. spdm
      0
      8 July 2012 13: 55
      Quote: gregor6549
      But on the other hand, it was the first serial Soviet carrier of solid propellant BR.

      Yes, but damn the size and cost just went wild. And the entire service infrastructure + the largest boathouse in the world. Everything cost the state a pretty penny. And the result? All are cut. sorry.
      1. -1
        9 July 2012 03: 12
        who are you sorry? it’s rather a holiday for you, you won’t wait when America comes to you
  29. +2
    8 July 2012 13: 52
    The article is already interesting because the Americans are trying to compare the submarines of the probable enemy. There is nothing strange that the highest rating will always be in their favor. Each sandpiper praises its swamp. The most important result is, albeit a thin, but still a world. I don’t think everyone is eager to check who has the best equipment, because there will be no one to compare. Why is this verbal feces ?? Guys, let's live together-- this is the testament of the cat Leopold.
  30. +1
    8 July 2012 14: 36
    The cat Leopold is certainly the coolest peacekeeper, but as there was no peace, it is unlikely to be. So, breaks between wars. Moreover, the world, if not cool, is entering yet another impasse. On the one hand there are not enough resources, and on the other hand there is nowhere to put products from these resources. Including military. And such situations were always resolved only by wars. Of course, no one wants a vigorous war, but not everyone was counting on the 2 world war either. And take it, yes happen. As for American estimates, they often praise other people's equipment, so that it is more convenient to knock out a new money for their modernization. And they do it well.
  31. Captain_old
    0
    8 July 2012 15: 36
    Quote: duche
    Article is already interesting in that the Americans are trying to compare the submarines of the probable enemy.

    And who told you that? In the film - one Soviet, "Typhoon" in 9th place, it is English, two German, the rest - sky.
  32. Captain_old
    0
    8 July 2012 15: 58
    Quote: duche
    Article is already interesting in that the Americans are trying to compare the submarines of the probable enemy.

    And who told you that? In the film - one Soviet, "Typhoon" in 9th place, one English, two German, the rest - sky.
  33. R. Alex
    0
    8 July 2012 16: 11
    I wonder why the Shark was planted in 9th place, probably because the amers write boiling water from it. I think one of the best.
    1. Rider
      -2
      8 July 2012 16: 40
      Quote: R.Alex
      why the Shark was planted in 9th place, probably because the amers write boiling water from it.


      The shark pins with its size, there is nothing else interesting in it.

      9th place - the very thing, out of respect for the technologists, craftsmen and hard workers who built this trough by the decision of the crazy admirals and chiefs of the Design Bureau
      1. +1
        8 July 2012 16: 53
        I bet you!))) In addition to its size and habitability, it takes the first place in vitality - in theory it will withstand two torpedoes. In theory, of course.
      2. -3
        9 July 2012 03: 14
        you yourself in life have built something useful, wise guy?
        1. +3
          9 July 2012 06: 04
          Let's build, and YOU?
      3. iegudeil
        0
        4 August 2012 02: 03
        A typhoon was built to launch a nuclear strike from the pole. None of the existing boats are so adapted to the conditions of high latitudes. Under pack ice, it is invulnerable. No wonder the government of traitors hastened to cut missiles for Typhoon. Now these unique ships were disarmed, and the potential for their use is higher than that of Ohio. Only 3 buildings remained. Now it’s impossible to use them for full combat duty, even if they put some missiles on them.
        There is a betrayal of national interests. Could serve for 50 years.
  34. Captain_old
    0
    8 July 2012 16: 42
    Quote: R.Alex
    I wonder why the Shark was planted in 9th place, probably because the amers write boiling water from it. I think one of the best.

    Ha! You will also ask why there is no "Black Hole" ...
    1. +1
      8 July 2012 17: 27
      This is "diesel".
      1. Captain_old
        0
        10 July 2012 13: 09
        The film also contains diesel.
  35. Grits
    +2
    8 July 2012 17: 07
    Without belittling all the advantages of the Tomahawks, I note that it is not correct to compare them with Granite. First of all, Granite is a pure water PKR ... Tomahawk is more versatile. But compare the speed of the ax and Granite - the difference is 1.5 times. Accordingly, the difficulty of destroying a missile flying towards a target increases by the same amount. Tomahawk generally gets lost with cannon air defense. In addition, Tomahawks, unlike Granites, cannot "talk" to themselves during a volley, "discussing" targets ... That is, a volley of Tomahawks is a flock of biting mosquitoes, and a volley of Granites is a pack of smart wolves. Which tear all living things into stakes. Granites may not even explode. Because their size and mass multiplied by Mach 2.5 are not a negative factor, but rather an additional factor of destruction. Such a metal log will split a destroyer-type ship in half on the move. And the bullets flying towards him from anti-aircraft complexes - like grain to an elephant. Unlike the Tomogavk, from which, if such a complex is applied on it, a piece of a nozzle with twisted elements of the skin will fly to the ship at best ...
    1. 0
      8 July 2012 18: 06
      Alexander ...
      regardless of Machs ...
      hit by a bullet-Li, a shell-whether, bird shit - violates the aerodynamics laid down for the design modes.
      Forecasting - usually with a minus sign ...
      That the Ax will fly - and do the work ...
      That Granite will fly - and it will do things.
      In addition, from speed .. steering efficiency increases.
      But no one has ever ... developed ... introducing additional aerodynamic rudders for ... anyone.
      Otherwise, the engineers in the "Crew" were fucking darn their ... subsonic box, optimized for landing.
      Ah, an uncontrollable bandura ... even more dangerous ... uncontrollable.
      No?
  36. +6
    8 July 2012 17: 50
    Huh .....
    as always, with "burning" material ... - activation .... super-duper experts (usually trolls).
    Of the professionals, only desava saw the subfloor.
    I, in fact, not about submarines. , My specificity is above-water ... or one-on-one.
    I, about the Discovery Channel.
    No, the channel is good. You can see, the material is interesting.
    Delivery, only - get hurt.
    I will just quote ...
    "Firstly, the developers have achieved a radical reduction in acoustic, magnetic, radiation and thermal fields. Secondly, the combat stability of the boat is ensured by an extremely high secrecy regime - during combat patrols, the exact position of the SSBN is unknown even to the helmsmen, only a few senior officers of the submarine know the coordinates. . "
    I goof, it turns out - combat stability depends on whether he knows his steering position on the globe ... or does not know.
    If you don’t know - a kayuk, in short ... to the Angels.
    And if he knows - a kayuk, in short - to a senior officer. Did the figli squander it - military secret?
    Unique physical-acoustic-magnetic-tomographic-dental-procto-uro-geno-and pseudo-characteristics. !!!! The developers have achieved .... and during the tests ... also .... barely achieved.
    And what will happen in a year or two?
    And in ten years.
    How many angels walk already?
    ...
    Georgiki ... "- in the presence of a certain number of nuclear missile submarines at positions in the World Ocean, the enemy will never determine where he should expect an attack from;"
    Everything, chief, everything is lost, everything is lost. Georgie will drop in wherever they fall ... and start rockets ... to say goodbye ... and we won't go anywhere - where are they? maybe in Tuskaror, maybe in Antarctica?
    And, in the paragraph below - starting positions - in the Norwegian Sea and the Mediterranean. That's a mystery .... for the Russian Navy, and even more so the USSR.
    A boat is good ... which can only shoot from well-known positions. Really - super..killer .... herself.
    ...
    Fearful ... SiWolfe ... Moose Wolf ... a killer machine ... Read ..
    "The Americans tried their best, the new nuclear submarine uses a revolutionary propulsion device - a water cannon. The distances between the boat's hull and the power plant mechanisms were increased, new shock absorbers and noise-absorbing coatings were used. The boat is practically undetectable when moving 20 nodal move."
    Revolution!!!! Mover - a water cannon ... is not audible if it barely drags.
    Is she against whom? Against civilian trawlers and seiners? They go at such speeds. And if not - what for it is needed?
    ......
    In general, brothers, as you know .. and for me there is a very prosaic picture.
    Our boats are noisy, fast, maneuverable. There is only one task ... to fixate on a position (distracting), let yourself be discovered - and then at a pace ... run down a thread ... and shoot yourself in full. Let those forces that were preparing her-me ... to kick .... run and work. Stored ... run around.
    Their boats are not visible, not heard. They crawl with a quiet glaze - they percolate to our borders, if you do not need to seep out, they will stop by. They lie to themselves on the ground .. wait. Signal. And then, meanly, stealthily - with all the charges ..- they’ll charge.
    Pure Native American ambush tactics.
    ...
    Who is more ready for what?
    "I'm going to YOU."
    Or ... stealthily, in the back ... a sandal ... finnish?
    1. iegudeil
      0
      5 August 2012 18: 05
      You very correctly noticed the weakness and propaganda orientation of the article.
      This is absurd when the secrecy of the location of the boat is determined by the closed tasks for the crew. You might think that from the board of a submarine you can somehow inform the enemy of your plans. Although, of course, you can do this through the DUK. Send the enemy a navigational map or a photo from it. But such a message will be hard to find on the surface of the ocean. It’s easier to buy radio operators and they will give radiograms in two directions at once.
      And about the ultra-low noise of the Amerov nuclear submarines - it is already sore. All ultra-low noise is provided by a travel mode of less than 6 knots.
      But with such a course, the boat becomes very vulnerable because it is very easy to determine its elements of movement (speed, course), maneuverability is generally none. When driving at high speeds, the noise flowing around the body of water makes the sensitivity of the GAS low. I doubt very much that at 20 nodes Amerovsky acoustics hears as well as at 6 nodes. And it is very important to have not only low noise of mechanisms, but also the ability to hear well. And naturally, the noise of the boat at 6 and 20 knots has a different order. Words that "at 20 nodes has a low noise level" must be supported by specific ratios in numbers. But since These numbers are secret, it turns out just propaganda.
      For the true state of affairs, you need to duel. Naturally, the duel should not be on the computer.
      A boat at low speed has only the advantage of finding the first target. Further, when accelerating and avoiding a retaliatory strike, there are only disadvantages, especially since Amerov boats have low throttle response and maneuverability. When accelerating, the boat creates several times more noise than just when dispersed.
      In the 70s, when our "roaring cows" got into a duel situation, the Amers almost always lost, they could not maneuver and take a comfortable position. Therefore, in a situation of mutual detection, they began to simply dump and call for help.
      I know this because I served both on the 1st generation and on the 2nd generation (675pr. And 671pr.) Specialty radar and television systems. A radiometer and a sonar speaker on a nuclear submarine are in the same RTS service, and always work in conjunction. Work on the BIP (Combat Information Post). All who are part of the CPU must accurately understand the task.
      A well-coordinated team, where each meaningfully understands the actions of the other, is the key to success. This was written by A.V.Suvorov, our great commander who did not lose a single battle. He always set a clear task for everyone, including ordinary soldiers.
      We often have an acoustician set the requirements for the operating mode of the entire ship. At his request, at the right time, the system of electrochemical air regeneration, general ventilation, and the operation of individual mechanisms were turned off. This is the "secret" of why "roaring cows" are sometimes found and sometimes disappear.
      The big strategic mistake of our Northern Fleet is the lack of stationary sonar systems installed on Kildin and on Rybachy. Two stationary systems could illuminate the passage to the Kola and Motovsky Bay. And put the third system in the Northern part of Rybachy, to highlight our landfills.
      Why is this not done so far ???
      Why is there still no Radar on Rybachy to illuminate the surface and air conditions ???
      Amerovskaya base patrol aircraft constantly patrols in our responsible area, guides and covers its boats in the immediate vicinity of our main bases.
      The sad story with Kursk has not yet led to any conclusions.
  37. +1
    8 July 2012 18: 34
    articles from the finger are sucked, a link to the discovery fake, the original of the film doesn’t mention most of the boats from the article, minus the site administration, check the article applicants !!!, you’re slipping into the yellow press, but the states have the most vulnerable position, from two sides of the ocean, you can secretly push forward, and stupidly burn out everything alive 15-20 submarines, in real combat conditions, the boats do not live long like the tanks on the battlefield,
    will not save any statistics of success or failure, God forbid that there would be fewer of them both for us and for amers, submariners-heroes no matter what flag they serve, who is interested here read-Lockwood, Charles Andrews "Drown them all!" correct literature
  38. welder
    0
    8 July 2012 18: 34
    hmm .... but the author distorted the facts a bit in his article .... I specifically went typing in the search engine all these top 10 .... helicopters, tanks, submarines, etc. ..... everything is a little different here the authors write, why sculpt a gag?! .... although Kalashnikov was recognized as the best in the whole world
  39. +1
    8 July 2012 19: 20
    Jordan Vause "Submarine ace. The story of Wolfgang Lut" Lute, Kretschmer their naval biography is a style icon for those who love the submarine fleet, sorry, that does not correspond to the general trend of the site's ism, but you need to know, respect and learn enemies
  40. -1
    8 July 2012 19: 27
    Gritsa

    Given the outstanding size of the Granites and their tendency to "talk", Granites can be found much earlier than the same Tomahawks. And that means to interfere with the talkers and bring them down before. Moreover, Tomahawks are constantly being improved and equipped with more and more powerful intellect and fly almost "silently". About the fact that in order to place a decent amount of Granites in a boat, she must be such a monster as Antey, and if the ship is surface, then the same as the cruiser Kirov. And the Tomahawk is installed on any submarine and on any surface ship without problems. And they are enough not for one salvo, like Granitov, but for many volleys and single launches. About the ease of shooting down Tomahawks with guns, I have not heard something. although they have already been used in huge quantities. So far, the only more or less reliable means of dealing with them are fighters, and even then not all, but such as the MIG 31 and its American counterparts capable of detecting and hitting small targets against the background of the Earth / sea

    And an offer. If you comment, it’s substantive and on the topic, and not engage in pacifism / indifference and do not spread thought on the tree. Who served whom and where he worked and with whom he lived, also few people are interested.
    1. +1
      8 July 2012 19: 50
      but there’s no topic, the article is a fake throw-in the personal opinion of the author (Google and added comments with prejudice) therefore the comments are the same
    2. phantom359
      +2
      8 July 2012 20: 19
      gregor6549, An interesting layout. And where did you find this? I mean the comparison between Granite and Tomahawk? The latter are perfectly outdated by the outdated air defense systems of the 60s of the last century. And the Americans are well aware of this. And advertising for missiles is for housewives to justify military spending. "Patriot" was also the best. (in words, of course)
      1. gor
        gor
        +1
        8 July 2012 22: 28
        the patriot successfully shot down the skads released in Israel in a desert storm and this was shown on the first all-Union channel in the news at that time. In words, you are patriots and there are no analogues. You think about this as a man who got on the field of miracles. They ask him a letter. he is a letter B and there is no such letter. well, a circle passes, he is again a letter B and naturally it does not. another circle passes he says a word. let’s lead please. he has such a clever view of the entire BARABAN studio. for smart SHOVEL))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))
        1. 0
          8 July 2012 23: 14
          Quote: gor
          a patriot successfully shot down scades released in Israel in a desert storm and this was shown on the first all-Union channel in the news and at that time

          The Patriot missile does not always approach the Scud long enough to detonate the warhead and destroy an Iraqi ballistic warhead. In general, the Franco-German reformers P-14 helped the Americans a lot, weakening its corps, if not for them, the power of the "patriotic" charge might not have been enough. And so some of the missiles crumbled on their own, and the enterprising commanders of the anti-aircraft complexes of the MNF wrote them at their own expense and received thanks. The TV endlessly showed CNN footage showing the wreckage of crumpled "Soviet-made missiles", but did not report anything about that 44% of the "Scuds" crippled by the innovative engineers flew where they were sent. One hundred percent guarantees "Patriots" in fact turned out to be a common advertising lie. A total of 42 missiles fell on Israel, and 45 on Saudi Arabia. And it’s scary to think what would happen if Hussein once again allowed himself a free interpretation of the Geneva Agreements of 1925. Obviously, the peoples hoping for the Americans would have to be tight.
        2. phantom359
          0
          10 July 2012 01: 00
          gorWhat, joking? Or can’t you add your own price? Your self-esteem is too high, special. I immediately remembered the joke about the Moldavian submarine when they knocked in an underwater position and opened it.
  41. MURANO
    +3
    8 July 2012 22: 23
    Quote: phantom359
    comparison of "Granite" and "Tomahawk"?

    This is a stupid comparison. With the Granite, you need to compare the Intruder with the suspended Harpoons. smile Tomahawk is good CR, but not RCC.
    In general, in my opinion, a fairly objective rating.
    Quote: Fizruk
    1960 - American nuclear submarine "Triton" made a round-the-world scuba diving without surfacing (no one has repeated the record so far)

    On our side there was a squadron swimming. If memory serves 671 and 670.
    Virginia, Sea Wolfe and Los are without a doubt the best submarines. 971 on COMPLIANCE OF QUALITIES inferior to them.
    Like Ohio's Best SSBN.
    The accident rate in our fleet is associated mainly with the human factor. And he (factor smile ) -from our general schedule and in uism. (Here everyone needs to look in the mirror more often. And the tram Ham, and the Fizruk and other "specialists"). And also in flaws in the personnel training system. The entire system. And it is from - for the systems, the industry often gave us something that we didn't need (except for the developers) and on which it was impossible or meaningless to serve.
    1. 0
      9 July 2012 10: 41
      Murano, and in what did you see the stupidity of comparison?
      Is it that the Tomahawk was originally designed for other tasks?
      But when was that? In prehistoric times. And now it can quite successfully be used as RCC.
      After all, the Americans do not stand still, like some, and do not pass off as new well-forgotten old.
      Moreover, they are improving their weapons, not trying endlessly to create something new, but deeply modernizing existing models in accordance with current and future threats, which is much cheaper and easier to learn.
      The same "Patriots" have long been mass-produced in the 3rd modification (PAC-3), which uses many of the ideas of Soviet designers incorporated in the C400 and C500.
      And now on the agenda is the creation of a new air defense system using the technical solutions used in the Israeli air defense system "Arrow".
      The same is happening with the "old" shipborne air defense system "Aegis", which, after the modernization of the "Standard" anti-aircraft missiles of this system, acquired the ability to fight the Topols and Yars in active parts of the trajectory. Moreover, it should be borne in mind that all these pieces of iron are created and modernized in close cooperation with all leading Western countries, i.e. hardware designers have access to an almost unlimited market of modern technologies as well as to the production facilities of the same West.
      And in Russia they did not have time to look back, as the production areas of the same "Anthea Almaz" turned out to be privatized and now the vaunted C500 simply has nowhere to do.
      And if only that was privatized. Otherwise, most of the industrial and scientific areas of the defense industry have been sold out for casinos, etc. "high-tech" production of "attendants". Output. You shouldn't be proud of the achievements of the last century, but try to meet today's and tomorrow's requirements. Otherwise, no fur industry can cope with the production of hats with which we persistently try to throw the foe
      1. +1
        9 July 2012 12: 28
        Quote: gregor6549
        Was the Tomahawk originally designed for other tasks?
        But when was this? In prehistoric times. And now it can quite successfully be used as RCC


        Nothing of the kind. The anti-ship version of the Tomahawk was developed 20 years ago, then the direction was covered.
        Tomahawk's trick is that he can hide in the folds of relief. Knocking down an Ax is easy, but you must first find it. And this is a problem.
        Above the water surface, all its advantages are lost - the Ax turns into a mediocre RCC.

        Quote: gregor6549
        the same is happening with the "old" shipborne air defense system "Aegis", which, after the modernization of the "Standard" anti-aircraft missiles of this system, acquired the ability to fight the Topols and Yars in active parts of the trajectory.

        That's nonsense. CM-3 confidently affects space satellites, but only if there is time to calculate their trajectory. Therefore Aegis with SM-3 is really dangerous for low-orbit spy satellites, but this has little to do with intercepting ICBMs. Maybe ... in perspective.

        Quote: gregor6549
        And in Russia they did not have time to look back, as the production areas of the same "Anthea Almaz" turned out to be privatized and now the vaunted C500 simply has nowhere to do.

        Yes, the former workshop of NPO Almaz-Antey has the longest bar counter in Europe laughing
        Therefore, all talk about the S-500 is informational phantoms, "News in the Future Tense". For five years now, they say that they have adopted the S-400, although only one of the five missile indexes is ready, a long-range missile "which is 400 km away" does not exist at all. It's just a dream.

        About C-500 is generally a joke. 2010 promised C-400. Could not bring to mind, but to 2017 (previously promised in 2015) promise C-500. Yes, it's brilliant. They will not do anything to 2017, but to 2020 they promise C-600, then to 2025 C-1000. The only thing that can be guaranteed, the bar counter for 2017 year will become even longer smile
        1. gor
          gor
          -1
          9 July 2012 12: 53
          about axes. somewhere I stumbled upon an article that the wasp complex intercepts tomahawks without problems. also like an article that has no analogues. so did the kadafi have these wasps and how many axes were intercepted? by the way the tomahawk as a pcr has a very difficult flight path. above about patriots. if patriots are a complete lie so is Israel still trusting them? I didn’t notice suicidal thoughts among the Israelis. They really were able to see what this advertisement was worth. And I’m interested in the news of the BBC where they showed the skeleton of the rockets zh, but his approval is the truth as if he led monitoring how much cried down, and how much was sbito.LOPATA tovarischi))))))))))))))))))
          1. 0
            10 July 2012 09: 08
            Quote: gor
            Comrade above about the patriots. If the patriots are a complete lie, therefore, Israel still trusts them?

            At present, air defense units have a significant role in protecting the airspace of Israel, especially along the northern border. According to foreign media reports, in the combat structure of the national air defense system, there are 17 batteries of the Advanced Hawk air defense system, three Patriots, one Arrow. F-15 Eagle air defense fighters (38 modifications A, eight - B, 16 - C, 11 - D) are equipped with two squadrons.
            On the basis of the memorandum of understanding concluded in 1988, the specialists of the Lockheed Martin American corporation and the IAI Israeli company jointly created the Arrow missile defense system.

            и
            During Operation Desert Storm, Saddam Hussein launched dozens of Scud missiles against Israelis, the Israeli and US military intercepted a significant portion of them with the help of the Patriot air defense system and, according to unconfirmed reports, prototypes of the unique high-altitude missile defense system Hetz ". However, this did not give Israel a sense of its own security, given the fact that according to various sources, about a third of the Scud missiles still reached Israeli territory. But, perhaps now, with the use of low-echelon missile defense systems - the Iron Dome and the further improvement of the Hetz system, the situation has changed for the better. Moreover, until the autumn of 2011, Israel plans to deploy 10 anti-missile defense facilities in the north and south of the country, allocating more than a billion dollars for these expenses.

            But, despite the introduction of the “Iron Dome” missile defense system, Israel still has no sure guarantee that it will be able to fully repel the missile attacks of extremists. And, apparently, at the moment this system is not able to adequately resist the massive mortar shelling of territories, despite the fact that the creators of the system declared that the missile defense system developed by them would be able to effectively deal with this challenge. According to official information provided by the Israeli military, over 7-10 of April of this year, more than 350 mines of 81-120 mm caliber were released on the territory of Israeli territory. But there were no reports of the successful work of the Iron Dome in the reflection of mortar ammunition.
  42. dedroid71
    +1
    8 July 2012 23: 27
    Of course, +. I would put 10+. For a sense of humor
  43. -1
    9 July 2012 13: 14
    One of the features of the Tomahawk compared to Granite, among other things, is that its effective reflective surface or radar section is very small and very difficult to detect. And if you don’t find it, you’ll get the fuck. Moreover, no one is going to launch them either alone. As for Aegis, then, dear, you are very mistaken in terms of their tasks. They are just primarily intended for missile defense. Shoot down satellites and without them there is anyone. And in terms of reaction speed Aegis is quite on the level. Moreover, she also receives target designation not only from her shipborne detection tools, but also from the same American satellites, Avax, etc. And the exchange of information at the strategic and tactical levels between all branches of the US and NATO forces has long been resolved and continues to improve. It was a problem in the USSR how to understand each other. Everyone spoke their own languages, although attempts were made to standardize the exchange of information ..

    And further. Let us, if possible, do without the words "nonsense" nonsense "stupidity" in relation to the opinion of the opponent. "For every wise man, quite a simple thing" said someone and was right. So keep it simple and people will reach out to you
    1. +1
      9 July 2012 15: 08
      Quote: gregor6549
      One of the features of the Tomahawk compared to Granite, among other things, is that its effective reflective surface or radar section is very small and it is very difficult to detect

      This is already particular. The main thing is a low-altitude flight path with an envelope of terrain obstacles
      Quote: gregor6549
      And if you don’t find it, you’ll kill horseradish

      That is the whole point. Bet on stealth
      Quote: gregor6549
      As for Aegis, then, dear, you are very mistaken in terms of their tasks, They are just primarily intended for missile defense

      For the defense of ship groupings from anti-ship missiles. It was for this that Aegis was created, the rest - experiments
      Quote: gregor6549
      Satellites to shoot down and without them who will find

      So far, only the Aegis cruisers have completed this task. And don't forget, 70% of the Earth is the ocean. The cruiser is a mobile launch platform, it watches the satellite in the right place, for example, in the shadow zone
      Quote: gregor6549
      Moreover, she also receives target designation not only from her shipborne detection tools, but also from the same American satellites, Avax, etc.

      This is enough to prepare and "remove" the satellite in a few days.
      But it is not enough to "catch up" over the North Pole to intercept ICBMs, by the way, for the same reason, I am humorous about the missile defense reports in Poland - such systems should at least be installed on Svalbard or Greenland. laughing

      Quote: gregor6549
      So be simpler and people will reach for you

      I'm not complaining about the lack of audience smile
  44. MURANO
    +1
    9 July 2012 14: 13
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    The anti-ship version of the Tomahawk was developed about 20 years ago, then the direction was covered.

    That's right. It makes no sense. Launching anti-ship missiles at 500 km at subsonic speed is inefficient. At least a long flight time.
    And they didn’t even need Granites. It's not for nothing that I wrote about carrier-based aviation with Harpoons.
    P-6,35, Basalt (Volcano), Granite is all the consequences of the abandonment of normal aircraft carriers.
    Deck with RCC (and now with UAB) is much more effective, more universal and more dangerous than our RCC.
    1. +2
      9 July 2012 15: 18
      Quote: MURANO
      P-6,35, Basalt (Volcano), Granite is all the consequences of the abandonment of normal aircraft carriers.
      Deck with RCC (and now with UAB) is much more effective, more universal and more dangerous than our RCC.

      It sometimes seems to me, MURANO, that the Soviet Navy could build three times as many aircraft carriers and force the US to crash bricks. Could. And how.

      Each Typhoon cost as much as a nuclear aircraft carrier. The Rybka titanium prodigy cost as much as the Enterprise. Plus 4 huge and useless boxes of TAVKROV. Plus 4 useless Orlans. Insanity grew stronger - P-700, ekranoplanes, MKRTs ...
      As for the carrier-based aircraft itself, it would not have been difficult for the USSR to build a couple of hundred aircraft in the "K" version.

      The question is, why did you come up with a bicycle, if for a long time everything was clear. Fortunately, this invaluable experience was not gained by our blood - the amers have tried and tested everything before us in battle. It works great. Then why ??
  45. -1
    9 July 2012 15: 28
    What kind of 500 km / h are we talking about? The sea version of the Tomahawk has a speed of over 800 km / h. In addition, two satellite closed data transmission lines and the ability to patrol in the target area provide the ability to retarget Tomahawks to other targets during flight. Therefore, it is possible to organize a "wolf pack" of such missiles without any problems. Moreover, the whole flock rushes not on one predetermined target like a flock of Granites, but the targets can be distributed among the "flock members" at the discretion of the operator. And with all this, there is no comparison of Tomahawk in size and weight with Granite. Naturally, such a Tomahawk is not the only and not the best anti-ship weapon of the US and NATO fleets. But not the worst either. And more versatile than Granites
    1. iegudeil
      0
      5 August 2012 19: 00
      Gregor6549 - Ofigeli you.
      Therefore, it is possible to organize a "wolf pack" of such missiles without any problems.

      Do you think these missiles are airplanes? You understand the difference. A pilot sits on the plane and solves his problem. But no one is sitting in the rocket and it solves the problem laid down during launch. And in general, what kind of mode it is: we’ll shoot in that direction, and then the operator will decide what to do with it.
      To fly the Ax towards the target, you need to upload a terrain map into it and to reorient to another target, you need to upload a new terrain map. Based on your existing location.
      You, my dear, have played with computers and do not distinguish the real world from the virtual one.
      Why do you compare Ax with Granite?
      Granite was created for a specific purpose - the destruction of AUG.
      Therefore, as soon as such missiles appeared in the USSR, the AUG ceased to approach our shores. And generally shy away for 500 km. all our vessels with such missiles. And those who do not have such missiles, amers approach them and bombard them with their axes.
  46. MURANO
    0
    9 July 2012 15: 30
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Then why ??

    In the USSR, everything often depended not on the professionals, but on the personal preferences of the leaders and their environment ...
  47. MURANO
    0
    9 July 2012 16: 43
    Quote: gregor6549
    What 500 km / h are we talking about?

    It was a question of range. smile
    What you described below is the latest development. Do not compare the incomparable.
    1. 0
      9 July 2012 17: 14
      I compare what is in service with two fleets: Russian and American. And I emphasize that due to the constant modernization of the Tomahawks acquire more and more new qualities and can replace previous modifications on ships and submarines without any problems, while the granites which remained so. And replacing them on ships and boats that are still in military service is almost impossible
      1. iegudeil
        +1
        5 August 2012 19: 17
        You have seen enough of Wikipedia and you were struck by the list of upgrades. In fact, all these modernizations are the improvement of the control system and the replacement of types of warheads.
        Amer often fight with the natives and feel sorry for spending expensive kits. Therefore, they came up with a bunch of cheaper options.
        For example, Operation Desert Storm. Why in the sandy plain to put on the Ax an expensive control system for the terrain?
        And In general, the ax is an obsolete Soviet P-5/6 with an improved control system. The engine was slightly modified to increase the flight range.
        After all, Amer’s cruise missiles began to do later than us. Perhaps Khrushchev’s son sold them secrets. After all, he was in the development team of our first cruise missiles. And then he faded to America.
  48. 0
    9 July 2012 16: 43
    Pony, Sorry. Not two satellite data lines, but one, but two-way. http://raytheon.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2107
  49. MURANO
    +1
    9 July 2012 17: 49
    Quote: gregor6549
    I compare what is in service with two fleets: Russian and American.

    Got it.
    Quote: gregor6549
    What granites were and remained so. And replacing them on ships and boats that are still in military service is almost impossible

    Well, in general, the program for the modernization of Granite carriers has been announced. Onyxes or Calibers will be loaded onto the "loaves", in the same containers. Either 3 Onyx, or 4 Calibers per container.
  50. not good
    +1
    9 July 2012 22: 55
    By the way, about the discovery of nuclear submarines. In the year 91 in Bashkortostan, the BEM passed the anti-submarine task. The KPUG from Zs 1135 vigorously spent practicing torpedoes on the boat for a long time admiring the skill of our submariners. It turned out that our boat was not heard by anyone, and they drove poor Americanos around the area, which eventually dumped at full speed into the ocean.
  51. +1
    9 July 2012 23: 41
    The article is interesting and generally objective. But there are inaccuracies, in particular:

    “For the first time in world practice, instead of a traditional periscope, a telescopic mast is used on which a video camera, an infrared sensor and a laser rangefinder are installed. The image is transmitted to a monitor in
    central post" - to put it mildly, not quite so. Our sailors on the Lada have long and successfully used a similar non-penetrating mast with TV, IR channels and a laser rangefinder as part of the Parus-98 periscope.
    1. iegudeil
      0
      5 August 2012 19: 29
      In the absence of a real periscope, this similarity is a minus in combat effectiveness. There is a lot of all kinds of garbage floating on the surface of the sea: barrel logs, etc. The telescopic retractable device is hardly more resistant to impacts. All other “innovations” have long been used in all periscopes.
  52. MURANO
    0
    10 July 2012 00: 38
    Quote: Alexander K.
    Our sailors on Lada

    Right.
    And not only ours...Diesel projects change more often.
    We were talking about nuclear submarines. Yes, here.
  53. +1
    10 July 2012 20: 19
    There is a Typhoon on the list, but this trough is not worthy of a pedestal

    then why...the Americans gave money for their extraordinary disposal, but they had not reached half of their service life?
    1. phantom359
      +1
      10 July 2012 22: 45
      PSih2097, Trough is Ohio, but not Typhoon. The Yankees, Project 667, were afraid like fire, but I’m generally silent about the typhoon. And in general, old man, don’t pay attention to the comment of, to put it mildly, an amateur.
    2. +1
      11 July 2012 12: 33
      So the Americans did everything right for themselves and their loved ones. "Sharks", due to their size and with appropriate modernization, could remain in service for a long time and with almost any range of weapons. And “Dolphins” and “Squids” are smaller and older. Accordingly, the amers looked forward, realizing that they could relieve themselves of many problems. On the other hand, the main elements of the “shark” rocket engines were made in fraternal Ukraine and resuming their production in Russia is not the easiest thing, it’s almost like making a new rocket (in principle, the story with “Bark” is still remembered). Well, the fact that the boats were sent for cutting is politics + a bit of economics + (most importantly) the lack of understanding by the Ministry of Defense about what to do with such boats (not because the boats are bad, but because something needs to be corrected at the conservatory)
  54. MURANO
    -1
    11 July 2012 11: 41
    Quote: phantom359
    Trough this is Ohio

    How about supporting it with arguments? You’re not an amateur, are you? smile
    Quote: phantom359
    Yankees pr.667 were afraid like fire

    Like any carrier of nuclear weapons. But this does not negate their noise. Sometimes the duration of covert tracking of 667A reached 40 (!) days. Sturgeon.
    1. -1
      12 July 2012 02: 54
      How about supporting it with arguments? You’re not an amateur, are you? smile

      (repeat)
      Then why ... did the Americans give money for their extraordinary disposal, but they had not reached half of their service life?
      The answer is yours MURANO... just don’t for the lack of money and the instability of the situation in the country, and also how your Kuchma for Amer’s money banned work on the P39, and those that were destroyed... As was the case with the destruction of strategic aviation, rocket science, etc. you Now they don’t touch him only because there are many relatives in the Russian Federation in Ukraine and they can snatch him away from his older brother.
  55. MURANO
    -1
    12 July 2012 11: 52
    Quote: PSih2097
    Then why...the Americans gave money for their extraordinary disposal,

    This is an argument to support the fact that Ohio-trough? smile
    And did they give the money directly? smile
    For obvious reasons, they wanted to reduce the nuclear threat, and a lot of things ended up being scrapped.
    Quote: PSih2097
    just don’t do it for the lack of money and the instability of the situation in the country

    Because you “don’t need it”, these factors will not go away.
    The BDRM was and is no less a threat, if not more.
    The situation was complicated, and if you judge by what they wanted or cut as the main sources of the threat, you can draw very wrong conclusions. wink
  56. xxARAMxx
    0
    12 July 2012 14: 44
    Have the Americans already won in Afghanistan?
    The Taliban will be surprised
  57. 0
    15 July 2012 06: 55
    Could or could not the USSR build normal aircraft carriers?
    Of course he could and should have. Which, by the way, was what Kuznetsov insisted on and for which he was removed from his post by Khrushchev.
    And the backlog in the form of the unfinished German aircraft carrier Zeppelin, which came to the USSR after the war due to reparations, could be used to its fullest. Instead, the Zepelin was turned into a floating target for bombers, which only a few bombs managed to hit. So they drowned it with explosives and torpedoes. And what was the benefit of this? Zero.
    And then the design bureau developed several variants of normal aircraft carriers, but they all remained on paper. Instead, they sculpted some kind of hybrids of attack ships with aircraft carriers. It turned out to be neither one nor the other. And when they were finally ready to build such an aircraft carrier (I’m talking about Ulyanovsk), the USSR collapsed into tartar and the dreams of Ulyanovsk went away along with it. And what were we left with? With one "Kuznetsov", which was barely saved from rusting, and the training ground for pilots of its aircraft carrier group was left in Ukraine. But it was not a simple airfield, but an airfield that completely simulated the conditions of takeoff and landing on the Kuznetsov, i.e. equipped with a ramp and all the gadgets for takeoff and landing on the deck.
    So it turned out that there were more than enough boats of all kinds, but they failed to build a balanced fleet. And the boats were never able to provide normal coastal infrastructure. I don’t even mention the fact that these boats were noisy.

    We can mention a little-known case when in the mid-80s (I don’t remember exactly when) the Navy decided to scare the imperialists and assemble a solid group of boats in the Gibraltar area. The boats went to the meeting point along different routes using all sorts of temperature layers and other camouflage methods. And when they gathered and surfaced at once, a helicopter or PLO plane of these same imperialists was seen above each one. I hope everyone understands what this means. The source is one of the former leading employees of the NPO "Okeanpribor" who made GAS for these same boats and took part in the "debriefing" at the very top. And the analysis was strong.
    1. iegudeil
      +1
      4 August 2012 04: 24
      Everything you say here is nonsense. We walked through Gibraltar and no one spotted us. We approached their base directly, looked through the periscope and through the location. We could have fired if necessary.
      About all-seeing, hypersensitive and competently doing everything NATO members and amers are a myth created in your own head. Well, perhaps, in your opinion, it should be as you say. But this only happens in computer games.
      All the “invisibility” of the amers is based on the proximity of the Norwegian bases to Russia. Slowly they come out of there and sit under our shores. The problem is that for some reason our strategists are not seriously engaged in dispersing this mess. All our anti-submarine forces stand quietly in the base, do their preventive maintenance, move here and there and no combat work is carried out. In general, almost the same as in Gibraltar. One gets the impression that all wars and “conflicts” are negotiated. Well, sometimes it happens that something wasn’t shared.
  58. sluch1
    0
    28 February 2013 21: 28
    Today the industry may not be the same... but no one is ordering. We will last another 5 years and then, even if they pay, there will be no one left. All of them are pensioners. But we won’t have time to re-create the school. It takes at least 15 years to create. Today we can reduce the speed of building a boat hull by 10 times. There are such technologies. But we use methods from 20 years ago... The longer we build, the more we can pull away...
  59. Biolant
    0
    28 December 2013 03: 26
    I want to say a little about Kursk, I will not say exactly how it was sunk or what happened there (I served in the Baltic Fleet at that time on a warship), but there was a very persistent rumor: Kursk collided underwater with a NATO nuclear submarine (like an English one), nearby was American - the British filed an SOS. The Americans thought it was an attack and sank Kursk with torpedoes. I say again, I don’t claim that this is true, but the entire Baltic Fleet was loaded with ALL types of weapons, supplies to the maximum and we stood ready for war ((Ordinary people will never know the truth, I don’t know it either. Imagine that this is the truth , we are attacking these boats (I don’t believe that we would have time to escape) - as an almost 100% nuclear war option. If this is true, then I can’t even imagine how difficult it was for the General Staff to decide not to respond ((At that time we had just begun recovering from the hunchbacked and drunken Beni. It could all have ended very badly ((Eternal memory to the crew of the Kursk.
  60. Biolant
    0
    28 December 2013 03: 34
    iegudeil UA August 5, 2012 19:00 ↑
    Gregor6549 - Ofigeli you.
    Therefore, it is possible to organize a "wolf pack" of such missiles without any problems.
    Do you think these missiles are airplanes? You understand the difference. A pilot sits on the plane and solves his problem. But no one is sitting in the rocket and it solves the problem laid down during launch. And in general, what kind of mode it is: we’ll shoot in that direction, and then the operator will decide what to do with it.
    To fly the Ax towards the target, you need to upload a terrain map into it and to reorient to another target, you need to upload a new terrain map. Based on your existing location.
    You, my dear, have played with computers and do not distinguish the real world from the virtual one.
    Why do you compare Ax with Granite?
    Granite was created for a specific purpose - the destruction of AUG.
    Therefore, as soon as such missiles appeared in the USSR, the AUGs stopped approaching our shores. And in general they stay away for 500 km. all our vessels with such missiles. And those who don’t have such missiles, the Americans approach them and throw their axes at them.

    I completely agree about Granite.

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