Mortars. "Tulip". Sudden continuation

71
When a year ago I managed to get acquainted with the Tulip and appreciate its capabilities and layout (Mortars Self-propelled mortar 2C4 "Tulip". The most of the most…), I did not think it would be possible to evaluate it in action.





I cannot but say thank you to the press service of the ZVO for this opportunity, since only in such conditions can the essence Weapons with a capital letter.

Speaking of some three letters "M" in relation to the mortar ... However, be patient a little, everything will become clear.

Power.

Indeed, power can be appreciated only being on the same site with these monsters. Not a single video (by the way, I recommend ours, it turned out pretty well, even if I messed up a little in terms of name, filmed an introduction at the end of the working day, already "ripped out") will not give a correct understanding.



Let me explain why.

Rumble is, of course, yes. But not very loud. Louder and Carnation, and Msta, and T-72. The truth is louder. But here is how the earth shudders after a volley of Tulip batteries ... This can only be felt after visiting a position.



Plus, see what pits in the perfectly calcined and dried earth the mortar base plate leaves.



Impressive?



It is just powerful. When you understand that this thing, which weighs 137 kg, calmly flies out of the trunk, gains altitude of 3-4 km, and then slowly starts its way to the target ... And the thing, that is, mine, doesn’t give a damn about electronic warfare , concrete, rolls, earth ... Yes, the Tulip also had atomic charges. But you do not oppose anything to this mine. She is, she flies, and when she arrives, everyone will be sad.



Of course, up to this point you have to not just work. And the second letter “M” could easily become “masochism”. At least, the position, albeit with a hint of a shadow in + 32 Celsius, is not the best place where you can really spend time. However, they do.







Doctrine. The one in which it is difficult, but after it is easy in battle. Target designations are received from the brigade control unit, battery commanders process them, issue settings to gun commanders, calculations charge, direct, commands sound ...









Combat guard. Probably the most difficult job is to sit behind a machine gun in the 30-degree heat and do nothing.

The loading process is well shown in the video, here you can see the faces of the fighters.





















Further, gunners and spotters come into play. Moreover, this is the third "M" - "mathematics". Without it, it's really nowhere. Constant calculations of corrections, adjustments, coordinates ... And it struck me that nowadays people easily multiply double-digit numbers in their minds and on paper, calculators are also in use, but as experts said, sometimes it's faster.

And what can you hear when the wind suddenly changes its direction ...











And this is the headquarters. The brain center of the battery, issuing mortar calculations. It looks modest.





The main characters plus a battery communicator.



And this is an intermediary. One that is silent, but evaluates the battery and reports directly to the brigade commander.



And these are the commanders of the calculations. Sergeants. It is clear that the contractors. I don’t know how master sergeants in the US Army look in such conditions, but ours obviously will not yield to them. And in terms of psychological impact, whoever you want to scare. Although generally very nice people and very easy to communicate. But I wouldn’t make them angry.



The result is known.



And by the way, one more thing. Mandatory change of position, the so-called anti-fire maneuver. This is when everyone is quickly removed from the position, moved to the side and deployed in a new place.























And the soil part of the calculations can only collect property ... As usual, however.



What can be said as a conclusion, leaving the scene?

It is clear that the ancestors knew how to craft forever. It is clear that “Tulips” were created, God knows when, that is, from 1971 to 1988, about 600 of these machines were produced. Seeing them in work, evaluating the work of the calculations, we can only express satisfaction that these monsters are only with us and the Kazakhs. This, you know, is encouraging and inspires some confidence.
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  1. +23
    26 August 2019 03: 28
    Weapons after "Doomsday", when there is no electronic warfare or satellite guidance, nothing. Only the simplest types of weapons based on mechanics and the desire for revenge.
    1. +5
      26 August 2019 08: 44
      It is unfortunate that there are no special computers (shielded from the effects of EI) for instant calculations, a Chinese calculator and paper. Camping table from Auchan.
      1. +8
        26 August 2019 13: 25
        The fact of the matter is that with the help of a tablet, a ruler and a calculator, within 5 minutes the battery is completely redirected to another target. The retargeting standard was met with excellent marks all the times. And why then the difficulties with the computer?

        It’s like in space: you can have a pen for a million dollars, or you can use a pencil ...
        1. +23
          26 August 2019 14: 39
          Quote: Banshee
          The fact of the matter is that using a tablet, ruler and calculator for 5 minutes

          This is a long time.
          Normal ACS can turn these minutes into tens of seconds. Yes, and dramatically improve the accuracy. And the use of ASUNO, which is not and is not expected, can turn these tens of seconds into seconds.

          Quote: Banshee
          It’s like in space: you can have a pen for a million dollars, or you can use a pencil ...

          Rather like digging a hole. You can use a shovel, or you can use an excavator.
          1. +1
            27 August 2019 11: 22
            Tulip is not Nona. He does not need complicated computer technology. Enough fire control machine one for the entire battery that calculates everything. And the commanders of the calculations make only corrections for their guns there, and the calculator is not needed, you can calculate it in your mind. The quality of the current draftees leaves much to be desired, and calculators are needed. If you always rely on technology, then the mind atrophies, you need to constantly study without it. ASUO refuses is not at the right time. Here you recall the old-fashioned methods of calculation.
            1. +3
              27 August 2019 14: 16
              Quote: insafufa
              Tulip is not Nona

              Irrelevant. "Tray" is 82 mm or "Tulip" is 240 - the amount of work is the same. But either you do it yourself, or the computer does it for you.
        2. +3
          26 August 2019 21: 28
          Quote: Banshee
          It’s like in space: you can have a pen for a million dollars, or you can use a pencil ...
          Do you know the whole story?
          As a result, they used those pens at the WORLD. They are not for a million - they are at 5000 r about now.
      2. +6
        26 August 2019 13: 29
        There were. It seemed to be called "Sachek". I used in the 80s MK-52 with RPZU. I wrote the programs, and he (in peacetime) considered all the objectives of the shooting course for me. It was especially pleasing when shooting with conjugate observation.
        1. +11
          26 August 2019 14: 47
          "Net" is a large and iron programmable calculator with preinstalled programs for solving geodesy problems. Direct geodetic problem, inverse well, etc.


          Quote: slasha
          I used in the 80s MK-52 with RPZU. He wrote the programs, and he (in peacetime), considered for me all the tasks of the shooting course.

          More than sure that as soon as SW. Roman Skomorokhov and Roman Krivov turned away, valiant officers, cautiously looking around, pulled out prohibited smartphones and decided everything on them. Because there are programs for android for a long time and have been actively used
          laughing
          An indirect confirmation can be considered that a heap of all sorts of nonsense is piled on the SCP, including the red flag. That is, they did not use "old school".
    2. +1
      29 August 2019 16: 42
      And what about the Peony Malka here?
  2. +10
    26 August 2019 04: 57
    A wonderful weapon, I saw their work back in Afghanistan, impressive.
    1. 0
      27 August 2019 16: 45
      They still dropped a whole plant in Chichen on the outskirts of Grozny
  3. +12
    26 August 2019 05: 00
    Yes, you will not say anything, a worthwhile thing.
    But the forgotten 160 mm mortar is not deserved. In Syria, he showed himself well. It can be made self-propelled on a relatively light chassis.
    1. +3
      26 August 2019 05: 28
      Quote: riwas
      But here is not deservedly forgotten 160 mm mortar

      Well, when they try to make it "too good", it turns out, in the end, not very good! For example, the logistics becomes more complicated ... 160mm mortars are available in storage warehouses ... maybe it is worth following the example of Israel? In Israel, 160-mm mortars are also in storage ... but, if necessary, they are removed from there and ... into battle! And then, in reverse ... It seems that sometimes they are seized from warehouses and for training, training ... There is some reason in using 160-mm mortars: for firing from them, you can use 155-mm and 152-mm artillery shells in containers ...
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 14: 40
        How do you imagine loading and firing from a 160mm mortar with 152mm and 155mm shells in some mythical containers ?!
        1. +3
          26 August 2019 15: 20
          I can imagine ... what I wish you too ... turn on the "imagination"! By the way, you are "in the know", how did the "rocket" caliber 160 mm appear in Israel? I will answer a little: at first, the "tovarischi Jews" were going to create an MLRS using NURS, where a 155-mm artillery shell should be used as a warhead ...
          1. 0
            26 August 2019 15: 40
            Do not confuse RS and mine. This is me, as a professional artilleryman I say.
            1. +4
              26 August 2019 16: 44
              I don’t seem to be confusing, comrade professional artilleryman! soldier This is me for an example! Yes And the container is not mythical, but "special"! winked It can be a cylindrical, for example, a container made of fiberglass or aluminum with a shank and a tail. The container holds a projectile with a fixation .. In some country (I don't remember now) the possibility of using the remaining ammunition from artillery guns, taken out of service, was considered. .. These shells were of a smaller caliber than the guns remaining in service. They decided: not to try to use "small-caliber" ammunition in "large-caliber" guns, at least for educational purposes for training calculations ... They expected that making a "special container" would cost less than a "suitable in caliber" shell .. Yes, and containers could be made at a "simple civilian" production.
              1. +4
                26 August 2019 17: 19
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                They decided: and not try to use "small-caliber" ammunition in "large-caliber" guns, at least for educational purposes to train calculations ...

                Belarus.
                Training of "Tornadoes" calculations using 122-mm inserts for Gradovskie RS
                1. +1
                  28 August 2019 12: 28
                  It’s normal practice to fire a special barrel.
              2. 0
                28 August 2019 12: 28
                And how did this story end?
                1. 0
                  28 August 2019 13: 00
                  Quote: Lexa-149
                  And how did this story end?

                  Unfortunately, I vaguely remember! First of all, I was "struck" by the very idea of ​​using an "artillery shell in a container"! A kind of "sub-caliber projectile"! That is why I remember it! And whether they "succeeded" or not, I don’t remember exactly ... I don’t remember the country where it was started ... I remember that the government of the country was offered this development by a certain national company and provided samples ...
                  1. 0
                    28 August 2019 13: 02
                    Eh ... Sorry. I would read with great curiosity about these developments.
    2. 0
      27 August 2019 16: 48
      The 120mm Nona mortar with new explosives in the filling with thin-walled walls is equal in power to 152 HE shells. I do not see the need for Tulip in them enough. 160 min alone is not realistic to charge
  4. +5
    26 August 2019 05: 44
    A 240-mm mortar is good, but a 300-mm one is better! Here, somehow, the Finns "made" a 300-mm mortar, and even a muzzle-loading one! belay and if on the basis of the 240-mm "Tulip" bungle a 300-mm "Buttercup"? what I'm not asking for D-80!
    1. +4
      26 August 2019 07: 50
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      I'm not asking for D-80!

      Aerospace reconnaissance of the enemy can easily mistake such a colossus for the Yars PGRK. Imagine their panic if they find ...this... in the frontline ...)))
      P.S. The reporting is excellent! good
    2. kpd
      +2
      26 August 2019 09: 57
      A 420-mm 2B1 "Oka" will not suit you?
      https://topwar.ru/35291-samohodnyy-minomet-2b1-oka.html
      1. +1
        26 August 2019 10: 05
        Quote: kpd
        A 420-mm 2B1 "Oka" will not suit you?

        Nah! I am more modest in my wishes! wink
  5. +9
    26 August 2019 05: 50
    When you understand that this thing, which weighs 137 kg, calmly flies out of the trunk, gains altitude of 3-4 km, and then slowly starts its way to the target ... And the thing, that is, mine, doesn’t give a damn about electronic warfare , concrete, rolls, earth ... Yes, the Tulip also had atomic charges. But you do not oppose anything to this mine. She is, she flies, and when she arrives, everyone will be sad. As the author expresses romantically! I’d like a song!
    1. +1
      26 August 2019 14: 42
      How can a "land mine" fly ?! By definition, it does not fly!)))))))))))
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 15: 28
        Quote: Lexa-149
        How can a "land mine" fly ?! By definition, it does not fly!)))))))))))

        Poor ! How everything is running in your head! request But don't worry ... and you will be cured, and we will be cured ... all Russians will be cured ... that's what Putin said! Until then ... let the land mine fall! Yes
  6. +13
    26 August 2019 05: 59
    Thanks for the work to both the gunners and the correspondents of VO.
    One thing I can say is that it is a pity that our gunners are still preparing for the "last war" and do not take into account the current realities at all, with a mass of the same UAVs and "suicide drones" over the battlefield. And I do not agree with Roman that these mines are not afraid of electronic warfare and laser. Scary. Our probable enemy has already learned how to shoot down 82-mm mines in flight, but this one will still be bigger.
    Moreover, I was a little sad when I saw a shot with an artillery sergeant, who had a "shabby" "repainted" commander's bag ... "Soviet Army" "in all its glory" and nothing that is pathetic, nothing that is stupid, but the main thing is that if everything would be the same for everyone, and if so, then that tomorrow all the ammunition would be black and do not care that it is even issued to officers for ten years, but in the warehouses there is no such color for everyone ... get out of the situation ...
    1. +5
      26 August 2019 10: 05
      Quote: svp67
      Thanks for the work to both the gunners and the correspondents of VO

      Thanks. The guys did their best. That's what you need to play on TV, not "Dom-2".
    2. +6
      26 August 2019 13: 23
      Quote: svp67
      And I do not agree with Roman that these mines are not afraid of electronic warfare and the laser. Scary.


      Well, I specifically asked the gunners. They laughed, they say, only with their hands if they catch the electronic warfare ... The mechanical fuse is theirs.
      1. 0
        27 August 2019 16: 51
        For these mines, there is a whole range of fuses from mechanics to electronic let them stay alert.
  7. +6
    26 August 2019 06: 25
    I heard excellent reviews from those who commanded batteries back in Soviet times in Germany, the main thing is to correctly calculate the first sighting shot, and the battery will blow the target according to its results in the first salvo.
  8. BAI
    +3
    26 August 2019 09: 05
    these monsters are only with us and the Kazakhs.

    Ukraine has one.
  9. +6
    26 August 2019 09: 09
    It was like rewinding 15 years ago))) Solar smoke eats eyes, the backs of calculation numbers are white with sweat, the sergeant kick explains to the gunner that he is not the most quick person in his business ... What an old man I am (
    Only we had 2s5 -s.
    Guys, like us, do not use mechanized ammunition packs, they shoot "from the pit". Even on old technology, maintaining such systems is too difficult and troublesome for personnel. There is no need to talk about a quick change of positions in such conditions. AKSU was amused. Only interfere with the implementation of standards. The benefits from them are zero. We didn't even have such crap. But the armor of the norms. And closer to war and demobilization will dry up and cardio will be pulled up to dismissal.
    It is strange that the headquarters is located at the OP. Are they shooting at pre-calculated ones? Although there is a photo of the rupture, apparently the "cauldron" can be observed directly from the OP. Interestingly, mortars shoot volleys?
    If KNI is not deployed, then it does not count).
    I wonder how now with the relationship between the OP and KNI? By wire, tapi with duplication on the radio as before?
    1. +1
      26 August 2019 10: 19
      I wonder how now with the relationship between the OP and KNI? By wire, tapi with duplication on the radio as before?

      In the photo where the signalman is seen, TA-57 is being used. Probably nothing better and more reliable has been invented. The radio is probably some kind of relatively new type p-168.
      1. +1
        26 August 2019 10: 43
        I noticed that. The question was about the relationship specifically between KNI and fire.
        1. +5
          26 August 2019 13: 14
          Quote: Engineer
          The question was about the relationship specifically between KNI and fire


          Ta-57. But then, alas, "Baofeng" and "Kenwoods". But we will talk about this separately.
    2. +2
      26 August 2019 13: 22
      Quote: Engineer
      Salt smoke eats eyes, sweat-white backs of calculation numbers, the sergeant kick explains to the gunner that he is not the fastest person in his business ... What an old man I am (


      There were no kicks. Despite the brutal faces at the calculation commanders, very nice sergeants. Otherwise, that’s all. The old man ... apparently, despite his age, you can if you wish)))

      Quote: Engineer
      It is strange that the headquarters is located at the OP. Are they shooting at pre-calculated ones? Although there is a photo of the rupture, apparently the "cauldron" can be observed directly from the OP. Interestingly, mortars shoot volleys?


      The "boiler" can be observed from the brigade's NP. From the OP it is completely invisible, so the adjustment comes from the brigade. As for the pre-calculated ... I don't know. Perhaps the polygon is not very large, they can already learn it)))

      Not just firing volleys, but easily. Very impressive. The first time they gave it, my fotik twitched in my hands, it shook so much. Kick hard to the ground when all four.
      1. +2
        27 August 2019 14: 23
        Thanks to everyone who answered.
        It has already been written about the power of Tulip in local conflicts. Co-workers said that a mine on high-explosive installations in Chechnya pierced through a five-story building and exploded in the basement, "collapsing" the entire house. I do not know if there is an exaggeration here. But if our 53-kg projectile from 2c5 gave ground breaks three times higher than the trees (at the KNP I could not believe my eyes. I asked all the binoculars from the KVU to detect more accurately), then I am inclined to believe.
        Bike about PUO... The unit was told to receive a fire control device at the RAV warehouse and a couple of other things. I, a two-year-old with the training of a tanker, stood in line and thought while waiting for the device to be received, wondering what kind of indication there was, digital or analog, and what functionality. The voice of the ensign brought out of his thoughts: "Comrade Lieutenant, stop dreaming, you are delaying the line." “So give the PUO, how long to wait.” Prapor gestured in bewilderment at two folding aluminum planks. From mutual surprise, no one even thought to explode))
        Still, broken feeders are very bad. We had the same. The numbers of calculations for manual submission were nicknamed stokers. "What do you want, the cars are very old." Then, after the field trip, the breeders came and absolutely everything worked for them. The mechanized ammo rack fed a projectile with a charge to the tray, and it regularly lifted everything to the loading line. We did it literally in 20 minutes per car, simultaneously being distracted by other systems. So it's a matter of knowledge and desire.
    3. 0
      27 August 2019 16: 53
      In 2001, it was at least the Geocind tapak though the Acacia even the Tulip. I all have one, although in those days the batteries already had control machines with a computer-based FCS
  10. AAK
    0
    26 August 2019 09: 27
    Something the personnel of the calculation in the photo looks like an age ... "who is deeply over 30 ..."
    1. +3
      26 August 2019 13: 15
      Contractors are commanders of calculations, calculations are all conscripts, except for mechanical drivers.
  11. +2
    26 August 2019 10: 34
    And where is now in the state of M 240 mm?
    Something very similar to the deployment of a cropped formation.
    Too old-fashioned work (well, like 30 years ago), just a tear came.
    1. +1
      26 August 2019 13: 16
      Quote: chenia
      Something very similar to deploying a cropped formation


      No, the RVGK team of permanent composition.
      1. +3
        26 August 2019 13: 31
        SOB gray-haired starley? (I was a battery commander at age 22, a lieutenant).
        Linear battery construction, devices (and operating principles) as 30 years ago (and before that half a century ago).
        And this is RVGK.
        Although 240 mm already comes as an auxiliary, and most likely will be applied individually.
    2. +6
      26 August 2019 15: 11
      Quote: chenia
      And where is now in the state of M 240 mm?

      They were restored before the second Chechen one. In the form of individual min. divisions. Then they seemed to be included in the art brigades

      Quote: chenia
      Although 240 mm already comes as an auxiliary, and most likely will be applied individually.

      They were used primarily in the assault on populated areas, here they are out of competition. And "Daredevil", and the usual mine. Plus, they were used for combing fire, with cluster mines. But there it was just that some people had "farts" after the death of the paratroopers, so they dragged everything that their little hands could reach to the entrance to the Argun Gorge. At the same time, the platoon of the 24th separate division was brought in.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 19: 06
        I was not in Komsomolsky .. but they say there they were used ..
        1. +1
          26 August 2019 19: 17
          Quote: Andrey VOV
          I was not in Komsomolsky .. but they say there they were used ..

          It seems like they used. At least one of their battalion commanders, along with the LCD, I saw there. The one who walked with a rubber pig on the DTK machine 8)))
          1. 0
            26 August 2019 19: 22
            I was a little bit second ... but I didn’t see the first ... but there the guys just put mortars carefully ... 82 and 120 ..... but chicha had good devils ... the school of the Soviet army was good
            1. +1
              26 August 2019 19: 25
              I'm also in the second
              1. +1
                26 August 2019 19: 29
                I'm the second in COM .. and the first as a conscript
  12. +1
    26 August 2019 11: 01
    I will never forget this ringing after a shot .... I’ve seen it twice in combat ... I will say one thing !!!!! and the gunners are simply masters of their craft with a capital letter ...
  13. -1
    26 August 2019 11: 07
    Great technique. Alas, by today's times, it’s outdated and suitable only to drive barmales. Although the work looks great. He would have a clever mine with a good GSN. To shoot / aim / hit.
    1. +1
      26 August 2019 11: 11
      do not worry ... the men do just that, without any gsn, although if there is a bed with her, then in general it is good ... and the barmaleevs will have enough "Tulips" for a century .... how many of them are there in the Donbass ...
      1. +1
        26 August 2019 13: 19
        Countermeasures in the rate of fire and mobility of the Tulip are dangerous.
  14. Hey
    0
    26 August 2019 11: 35
    Good technology, but little mechanization. You have to do a lot with fart steam. This is where exoskeets would come in handy. Instead of a winch - a mini-crane with a telescopic boom. Motoblock for delivering min.
  15. 0
    26 August 2019 11: 40
    A cart which under 137 kg of mines was invented, or something ...
    1. +2
      26 August 2019 13: 17
      Quote: bk0010
      A cart which under 137 kg of mines was invented, or something ...


      Yes, hell, where it will take place ... It’s really easier to take unpaved ones (this is based on calculation, but not on armor which), their 2 people are calculated. Battery - 4 barrel. Total - 8 people. You can drag from the transport vehicle to the 15 meters position.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 18: 51
        So you need to make a "dog", as in Boston Dynamics.
        1. +1
          31 August 2019 14: 55
          Quote: bk0010
          So you need to make a "dog", as in Boston Dynamics.
          - they are already from her refused-did not justify itself. There was an article on VO about 2 years ago ....
  16. +2
    26 August 2019 14: 41
    The fact that double-digit numbers in the mind multiply (not round, pepper is clear) is really amazing - well done. But the fact that these same fighters are able to do on paper is surprising only for those who are struck by the EGE.
  17. 0
    27 August 2019 09: 26
    Surviving cyborgs nervously twitched their eyes
  18. 0
    27 August 2019 12: 35
    I always liked them! power !!!
  19. 0
    27 August 2019 15: 37
    "... one can only express satisfaction with the fact that only us and Kazakhs have these monsters."

    Alas, this is not so. I recall the view of the house on the outskirts of Slavyansk in 2014, in which a 240mm mine destroyed several apartments from 5 to 1 floors.
  20. 0
    1 September 2019 01: 13
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Banshee
    The fact of the matter is that using a tablet, ruler and calculator for 5 minutes

    This is a long time.
    Normal ACS can turn these minutes into tens of seconds. Yes, and dramatically improve the accuracy. And the use of ASUNO, which is not and is not expected, can turn these tens of seconds into seconds.

    Quote: Banshee
    It’s like in space: you can have a pen for a million dollars, or you can use a pencil ...

    Rather like digging a hole. You can use a shovel, or you can use an excavator.

    Please tell me, for what purposes do you plan to shoot these suitcases? And where can they go in 5 minutes? Or in 10 minutes? Or how long can they stop being goals?
  21. 0
    1 September 2019 01: 15
    Quote: MUD
    Good technology, but little mechanization. You have to do a lot with fart steam. This is where exoskeets would come in handy. Instead of a winch - a mini-crane with a telescopic boom. Motoblock for delivering min.

    And manage everything from the application on the iPhone! You can not get up directly from the couch!
  22. 0
    1 September 2019 01: 17
    Quote: garri-lin
    Great technique. Alas, by today's times, it’s outdated and suitable only to drive barmales. Although the work looks great. He would have a clever mine with a good GSN. To shoot / aim / hit.

    Do you imagine the scatter of this thing when shooting?