Military Review

Russian civilization. Call caught up

158
I smoked the sky of God
He wore royal livery

Litter the treasury of the people
And I thought the age to live like this ...
And suddenly ... the Lord is righteous!
Nekrasov N. A. To whom to live well in Russia



Mosaic. Victory parade. Authors G. Rublev, B. Iordansky
Metro Dobryninskaya Moscow


As we wrote in previous articles at the HE devoted to the key stages in the development of Russian civilization, the overtaking type of development will always be accompanied by overpressure from the one who is being caught up: cultural, economic and military.

Interrupt this "samsara" can only catch up and overtake, but it is more important and preferable to create their own "challenges".
Or maybe there is no need for this crazy race? Perhaps it is better to “take advantage” of the fruits of Western achievements without resistance? After all, Columbus was touched by the meekness of the natives of "India", who were subsequently completely exterminated by the Spaniards.

“The West is the only civilization that has had a huge and sometimes destructive effect on all other civilizations,”
- wrote Samuel Huntington.

Russia, which has adopted Western technology, was able to withstand the West as a civilization.
This was enough to immediately identify Russia as an aggressor. N. Ya. Danilevsky, long before the civilizational theory of Toynbee pointed to this problem. Comparing the situation in the nineteenth century. with the rejection by Germany of territories in small Denmark, and the suppression of the Polish uprising, he indicated: sharp criticism of Russia and the absence of such an address against Germany is determined by one, Russia's alien to Europe, there are clashes within the framework of one civilization, here - a clash of civilizations.

Of course, the countries included in this civilization may have contradictions, they are often colossal, such as, for example, the centuries-old struggle of France and England for hegemony in the Western world. But these contradictions fade when it comes to clashes with other civilizations, for example, as in the attack on China in the 19th century. Or in the case when Russian victories in the Balkans, during the 1877-1878 war, were leveled by the decision of the Berlin Congress of Western Countries:

“We have lost one hundred thousand soldiers and one hundred million gold rubles, and all our sacrifices are in vain”
. (A.M. Gorchakov).

So the First World War was a war for hegemony in the Western world, and therefore, in those conditions, and for power over the rest of the world. And the Second World War, at least in the framework of the main theater of operations - the Great Patriotic War, was a war of two civilizations, therefore there is such a difference in the victims of these two wars and in the tension of forces.

So, this challenge or aggression from the neighboring, more technically equipped, western civilization in Russia gave rise to two successful modernization projects: one was carried out by the “Westerner” Peter I, the other, strange as it sounds to many readers, the “Westerners” were Bolsheviks.
As we wrote above, the modernization of Peter allowed Russia to become a full-fledged participant in European and world politics, often to the detriment of itself.

The problems of Peter, as mentioned above, were enough until the period of the Western industrial revolution.
The unwillingness of the supreme power to carry out a new modernization led to the fact that by the First World War the country had become a Western semi-colony, and in this war for hegemony in the Western world, the question of who would dominate by the results of the war: French or German capital was decided in relation to Russia. Of course, subject to the external attributes of sovereignty.

Management system


During the reign of Nicholas I, in the eyes of which revolutionary changes were taking place among neighbors, Russia had a chance to carry out a new modernization and solve the most important issue of the Russian "imperial people": to give land and freedom, which we wrote about in the article on the Military Council "Nicholas I. Lost modernization". But the management system built by Nikolai Pavlovich, bureaucratic and formal-decorative, a system of petty police control and constant pressure, could not contribute to the development of the country, especially modernization:
"What a strange ruler this is, he plows his vast state and does not sow any fruitful seeds." (M.D. Nesselrode)


In the framework of this cycle, devoted to the key factors of the development of Russia as a civilization, we will not dwell on all the vicissitudes of the post-reform development, list the details of the “revolution from above” of Alexander II or the counter-reforms of Alexander III, it is important that in these actions there was no systematic development of the state, that is , of course, the country was moving forward, but in the framework of its development, like Civilization, it was radically insufficient, and reforms or counter-reforms only affected particulars, without touching the essence.

An important factor in inhibition was the complete lack of goal setting. The idea of ​​an “absolute monarchy” could only be a form of salvation for the ruling class and status quo for its own economic well-being, but not a goal for the country. And in this regard, it is pointless to pose the question: how was it in France or England, countries forming in other frameworks, and developing during this period, largely due to the exploitation of other civilizations and peoples, and not at the expense of only their "imperial people" , First of all.

Secondly, even the right actions or reforms, in the context of a management system that does not have goals and a vision for the country's development, could not change the situation.

For example, the gold ruble was the “hardest currency”, but large-scale government lending abroad and the power of external capital in the Russian industry, reduced its “hardness” to nothing, made it relevant only in case of paying kokotok in Paris or playing at Monaco or Baden casinos- Baden

In such conditions, the outstripping pace of development of Russia in comparison with Western countries in the post-reform period, and especially before the First World War, in the absence of modernization, did not narrow the gap with these countries, but the low level of well-being, education and culture of the broad masses compared with Western countries it was written even in official sources.
In terms of industrial production in 1913, Russia was inferior: the USA by 14,3 times, Germany by 6 times, England by 4,6 times, France by 2,5. (Lyashchenko P.I.)

Earth and will.


The cornerstone problem of the Russian Empire was the agrarian question. The question concerned as much as 85% of the country's population.
To find a way out of it, within the framework of the proposed management system, was absolutely impossible: every half-step government move in this direction only worsened the situation. All proposed solutions were anti-peasant: the Great Reform reduced peasant allotments by 20%, redemption payments exceeded the economic possibilities of the peasant economy, which led to arrears and mass impoverishment: in the European part of the Republic of Ingushetia, the income amounted to 163 cop. from tithing, payments and taxes from tithing - 164,1 cop., for example, in the north-west of the country, where the situation was extremely unfavorable in the Novgorod province, with 2,5 shower plots, income from agriculture per year was 22 rubles. 50 cop., And the amount of fees was equal to 32 rubles. 52,5 cop. In more favorable conditions of the St. Petersburg province, income was equal to fees, and this despite the fact that the income was not only from agriculture, but also from latrine industries. (Kashchenko S.G., Degterev A.Ya., Raskin D.I.) What is the meaning of the 1874 deficit budget achieved by the best finance minister of the Republic of Ingushetia M.Kh. Reiter in such circumstances?

In 1860, in the European provinces of RI there were 50, 3 million peasants, and in 1900, already 86,1 million, in proportion, the size of the allotment per capita changed from 4,8 dess. until 2,6 dec. in 1900, when the country was overpopulated, capitalist rent was killed by rents that exceeded it several times, which led to the sale of large land property to peasants, as pointed out by agrarian economist A.V. Chayanov. (Zyryanov P.N., Chayanov A.V.)

The state, using taxes forcing the peasant to simply bring the product to the market at the expense of personal consumption, without modernization in agriculture, was destroying subsistence farming.

Thus a vicious circle was formed: there was a decrease in large-scale efficient economy and an increase in subsistence farming, which was unable to become a "farm" due to the lack of capitalist rent and a primitive level of agriculture.
After the revolution or the new Pugachev region of 1905, the purchase of payments was canceled, but at the same time, the agrarian, or rather the political reform of P.A. Stolypin began, which aimed to create a strong master, support for the decrepit autocracy. Modern researchers believe that for its implementation would take more than 50 peaceful years. Unlike the 1861 reform, Stolypinskaya was poorly prepared and not backed by finances. And it was supposed to affect the essential strata of the peasant worldview, face the centuries-old institute - the peasant community, a world that after 1905-1906. categorically and deliberately opposed the "Russian enclosure."

The peasant world looked differently at the situation with the land, which was reflected in the mass peasant orders to the deputies: a complete black redistribution. According to Stolypin's reform, by 1916, only 25% of the lands of the communities passed into individual ownership, but during the new revolution the peasantry annulled this situation. (Kara-Murza S.G.)

In the absence of modernization in agriculture and low land, the absence of the industrial revolution in Russia and urbanization, the destruction of the community would not only worsen the situation of the peasant masses, but would also lead to new mass suffering.

In the 30's of the twentieth century. collectivization was compensated by industrialization and urbanization, the flow of population into cities, was carried out in the compressed pre-war years, finally implementing what was not done during the 50 of peaceful, post-reform years.

So, according to the situation 1909 -1913 years. we have the consumption of mineral fertilizers per 1 hectare: Belgium - 236 kg., Germany - 166 kg., France - 57, 6 kg., Russia - 6,9 kg. As a result of comparable crops, the yield in the Republic of Ingushetia is 3,4 times less than in Germany, and 2 times less than in France. (Lyashenko I.P.)

Formally, all the tasks were reduced to pumping out “raw materials” from the village for the purpose of selling abroad, according to the formula “we will not eat, but will take out”. At this level, according to data from 1906, the average consumption of the Russian peasant was inferior to English by 5 times. (Russian physiologist I. Tarkhanov) 1911% of the produced grain was exported to the heavy hungry 53,4, and 1913 kg was grown per capita in the record 472. grain, while countries with production less than 500 kg per person did not export grain, but imported it (Kara-Murza SG).

The pumping out of capital from the countryside could have been justified if it had contributed to the development of the country, the industrial and cultural revolution or reform, but we will repeat this again, for fifty post-reform years, nothing has been done. As an economist P.P. Migunov wrote on the eve of the First World War in an official work dedicated to the 300 anniversary of the Romanov dynasty:
“Russia, like all other cultural states, has made great strides in the matter of its economic and cultural development, but it will have to spend a lot of efforts to catch up with other nations that have gone ahead of us.”


In the end, the peasant guard, but already in gray overcoats and with rifles, was tired. If the "enslavement" of the peasants was predetermined during the first civil war in Russia (Troubles) (1604-1613 gg.), Then the final exit from the "enslavement" also occurred during the new civil war of the twentieth century.

It was in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries that the dynasty, the mediocre administrative apparatus and the ruling class did not cope with the challenges, did not modernize in time, and cornered the solution of the problems that were resolved in the course of the new modernization, which cost the country enormous victims.

Here is what the Volunteers wrote to the accession to the throne, Alexander III, warning of the danger of revolution (!):
“There can be only two ways out of this situation: either a revolution, absolutely inevitable, which cannot be prevented by any executions, or a voluntary appeal of the supreme power to the people. We do not set conditions for you. Let our offer not shock you. ”


The end of the letter is noteworthy:
“So, Your Majesty, decide. Before you are two ways. The choice depends on you. But then we only ask fate that your mind and conscience prompt you a decision that is only consistent with the good of Russia, with your own dignity and obligations to your native country. ”


The problem of governing a country, and especially a country like Russia, is often connected with the first person: revolutionaries do not make a revolution, it is done by the government in power of the revolution, as L.N. wrote Tolstoy.

And this situation was with the kings in the nineteenth century, and it doesn’t matter whether they were prepared for the throne as Alexander II and III or Nicholas II, or not prepared as Nicholas I. Did the tsar work for days like Nicholas I and Alexander III , or only during “business hours,” like Alexander II or Nicholas II. But all of them only performed the service, routine, daily, burdensome for some, someone better, someone worse, but no more, and the country needed a leader capable of moving it forward, creating a new management and development system, and not just the main clerk, albeit outwardly similar to the emperor. This is the problem of managing the period of the last Romanovs and the tragedy for the country, however, in the end, and for the dynasty.

The Bolsheviks had to solve these problems in other, more terrible conditions for the country. And the Bolsheviks did not naively demand, like Stolypin, twenty years of calm, I understand that there is no time, "this should have been done yesterday", "otherwise they will crush." S. Huntington wrote:
“The rise to power of Marxism, first in Russia, then in China and Vietnam, was the first phase of the departure from the European international system to the post-European multi-civilization system ... Lenin. Mao and Ho Chi Minh adapted it for themselves [meaning Marxist theory - VE] in order to challenge Western power, as well as to mobilize their peoples and affirm their national identity and autonomy as opposed to the West. ”


New modernization ... and not only


As we see, in addition to the modernization project, they created something more.
The Russian Communists made a structure that itself began to form “challenges” for Western civilization, which had not had them since the time of the Turkish threat or Islamic civilization.

Communist ideas: the idea of ​​a world without exploitation, a world without colonies, an equivalent exchange between peoples, in the end the “world peace” of these ideas-challenges, of course, warped the “old world” - the world of the West in which “the English people really resembled a bulldog tearing off the leash. "

This was not inferior to England and other major European countries: one of them, Germany, in the end, in search of a "place in the sun" finally fell into the 30-s of the twentieth century.

These "challenges" received a huge response from the peoples under the direct or indirect colonial yoke of Western countries, from the majority of national liberation movements from China to America. This is not about evaluation: good or bad, "we were friends with those who declared themselves to be adherents of socialism, but in fact were not." This is the lyrics.

A. Blok, brilliantly intuitively, in the middle of a catastrophe, when “strangers, the haze of the north went to the bottom, how debris and tin cans go”, he caught the essence of a new “challenge” to the world:
Come to us!
From the horrors of war
Come into peaceful embrace!
Before it's too late - the old sword in the sheath,
Comrades! We will become - brothers!


Yes, and this is lyrics, but in practice, Russian civilization for the first time in its stories challenged the West, or in military terms, seized the initiative. What was not before, especially not after the Soviet power in the history of Russian civilization.

Soviet Russia became a creative threat to the civilization that captured the world. As L. Feuchwanger exclaimed:
“How nice it is after the imperfection of the West to see such a work that you can say with all your heart: yes, yes, yes!”


Understanding this clearly, the myth of the conceptual aggressiveness of Russia was revived in the West. Even after the end of World War II, when the USSR had to lift the European part of the country from ruins, feed the Eastern European countries, tearing off the latter from its own population for decades, which the former countries of people's democracy are bashfully silent about, accusing the Union of occupation, the former European allies tried to declare his new threat to the world:
"Western mythology ascribes to the communist world the same alienness as any planet: the USSR is a world intermediate between Earth and Mars."
(Bart R.)

The military threat from the USSR is a figment of the vigorous imagination of Western politicians or targeted propaganda, while in Western scientific historiography since the 70 of the XX century it was recognized
“That the Soviet Union acted not so much in pursuance of a master plan for the conquest of world domination, but because of considerations of a local and defense nature, which the official West did not accept or rather understand.”
(Schlesinger A. Jr.)

The problem was the same; the Country of Soviets could impose its agenda on the West: its challenge is a more significant threat than weapon - a call - which required a “response”:
“... today there are two factors, A. Toynbee noted, speaking in favor of communism: firstly, disappointment with the previous attempts to introduce a Western lifestyle and, secondly, the discrepancy between the rapid population growth and the means of food ... The truth is that offering the Japanese and the Chinese are a secularized version of Western civilization, we give them “a stone instead of bread,” while the Russians, offering them communism along with technology, give them at least some bread, even black and stale, if you like, but suitable for consumption, for he is with erzhit grain spiritual food, without which it can not live people. "


And such steps of the Soviets as the cultural revolution, free medicine, free education, free housing were completely breakthrough in the history of mankind and this was done in a "single country" with an extremely low starting material level of prosperity compared to the West, which went through a clash of civilizations in 1941-1945gg. When people of Western culture behaved on the territory of the USSR as conquistadors in Mexico.

Starting from the beginning of the 70 of the XX century, we will talk about problems and slipping along this path in the next article.

Gradually, from the 60 of the 20th century, the USSR began to formulate economic challenges, as philosopher G. Marcuse noted:
“By virtue of total administration, automation in the Soviet system can go at an unstoppable speed when it reaches a certain technical level. This threat to the positions of the Western world in international rivalry would make it accelerate the rationalization of the production process ... ”


And here is what management guru Lee Yakkok wrote in the early 80's:
“The Soviet Union and Japan are directing a lot of efforts to increase the level of technological knowledge in their countries, but we cannot keep up with them.”


The Bolshevik or Soviet system, which creates assertiveness in the promotion of ideas, was an ideal formula, thanks to which a less aggressive internal content society could really compete in the international arena, creating system challenges rather than mosquito bites, serving as a scarecrow or a whipping boy.

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
The death of the Byzantine civilization
Russia as part of the Eastern Empire?
Civilization Russia. Challenges and Answers
Russia. Objective reasons for lag
Nicholas I. Lost Modernization
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  1. Semurg
    Semurg 26 August 2019 04: 08
    +6
    So this article understood the continuation of the eternal dispute between Westerners and soil workers. Interestingly, as far as I remember, I started or mimicked as a Westerner, and after 20 years in power I became a soil worker or again mimicked, as before from a communist to liberals. The devil jerked in the morning while everyone sleeps to open the VO, and then Vashchenko’s article laughing .
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 07: 00
      +7
      Semurg, Russia is purely geographically doomed to this debate: we are EURASIA.
      1. 210ox
        210ox 26 August 2019 11: 10
        +2
        I read a note from the exhibition of the Soviet poster. The Japanese were there, and they were surprised. They told the guide that they had the same thing, only with a certain bias.
    2. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 07: 07
      +4
      Semurg, the fact that the GDP: "after 20 years in power has become the soil" is nothing surprising. Who correctly said: "It is natural for a person to change. Only * uraks do not change"
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 26 August 2019 07: 59
        +2
        Well, I don’t know at first how all a pioneer-Komsomol member is an obligation, a communist is voluntarily to make the world a better place, or out of selfish and career motives. Then he was quite a Westerner and a liberal with ideas about NATO and Europe from Lisbon to Vladivostok. Today, an imperial with thoughts and why "world" without Russia, but as we know there is an opinion, there is Putin is Russia. It turns out why is the world without GDP.
        1. vladcub
          vladcub 26 August 2019 10: 04
          0
          And what is the conclusion?
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 26 August 2019 13: 27
            +2
            Quote: vladcub
            And what is the conclusion?

            Ha, ha conclusion one GDP is a very good person and for many, many years he laughing God forbid sycophants will convince him "why is the world without Vladimir" I want to live. laughing
    3. apro
      apro 26 August 2019 07: 13
      0
      Russian civilization ..this is said loudly.
      Ordinary feudal. Retarded. Not having significant resources territory in the beginning. Then, having come under Western influence, it began to serve the interests of the West. The main conductors of this are the empire house of Roman Gottoprskys. The German beginning.
      The Soviet civilizational project is somewhat different. It is really a breakthrough of all mankind. The national project. Designed to create a new type of person. But it did not grow together ... It is a big mistake to equate the Soviet and Russian civilizations.
      Today, Russia goes its usual way .. Western interests in the gates ... and there is no way to break out of it. There are no ideas. There are no people ...
      1. wooja
        wooja 14 September 2019 17: 29
        0
        There are ideas, but there are no performers ..., but on the whole it’s true
    4. Olgovich
      Olgovich 26 August 2019 09: 03
      -8
      Quote: Semurg
      how did this article understand the continuation of the eternal dispute between Westerners and soil workers

      No, this is an article about how successful, strong and popular the system was, ... ... self-collapsing with complete indifference of 230 million citizens and the "17 million warm hearts" themselves. In the absence of a world war, cataclysms, etc.
      author: In such conditions, the outstripping pace of development of Russia in comparison with Western countries in the post-reform period, and especially before the First World War, in the absence of modernization, didn’t reduce the gap in any way with these countries

      Here you just need to know arithmetic: with leading TEMPs, the gap disappears after a while. And, as the trend in the development of the RI economy shows, this would have happened by the 1940s and without any casualties.
      peasant community, a world that after 1905-1906 categorically and deliberately opposed the "Russian enclosure."

      About 40% of the peasants expressed a desire to leave the community before the Thief, and their number grew. And the process followed the land surveying, which only slowed down the exit of the peasants of their communities. 40% were covered by cooperation, millions studied the competent management of farming
      So, according to the situation of 1909 -1913. we have the consumption of mineral fertilizers per 1 hectare: Belgium - 236 kg .., Russia - 6,9 kg.
      Belgium population density at the beginning of the 20th century 286 h / km2, in Russia 9.5 people / km2.
      Caloric intake to BOP -3000 kcal, RSFSR in 40 years only DID IT catch up ... 2834 kcal (Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR, 1955).
      Yield level 1913 d "effective" collective farms have reached by ..... 1956 There are no words ....
      Earth and will

      Allotments of land after the VOR grew by .... 9%. Those. The redistribution of the land issue has not resolved ANYTHING. It was "decided": civil war (-10 million people), dispossession (-4,5 million people), hunger, flight to cities.
      So "they decided that where in 1917 they fought to the death for a piece of land, in 1985 no one needed hundreds of thousands of hectares of land and half a million houses stood empty (Non-Black Earth Region)
      The Russian Communists made a structure that itself began to form “challenges” for Western civilization.

      Those. The West "dreamed" of a famine on a scale of 1933, 1947 in peacetime, "tribute" for passportless peasants, hundreds of thousands of executions during the year 37, total censorship and elections without elections?
      The Bolshevik or Soviet system that created assertiveness in the promotion of ideas was perfect formula

      Yes, that's why, as soon as the opportunity presented itself, EVERYONE rushed away from the "ideal formula"
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 26 August 2019 10: 01
        +1
        Olgovich, the numbers are certainly a good thing, and you + for knowing the numbers.
        But the numbers are different and we will see it today
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 August 2019 10: 09
          -5
          Quote: vladcub
          Olgovich, the numbers are certainly a good thing, and you + for knowing the numbers.
          But the numbers are different and we will see it today

          Dear Svyatoslav, from good, they don’t run together, headlong ....
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            26 August 2019 14: 25
            +4
            Dear Olegovich, and you in Russia, did not run away to Finland in 1990.
            together, headlong ...
            ?
            Just kidding
            Nobody fled or planned. Here is the problem that everyone in Russia knows about: Russian civilization in the form of the USSR was closed by Gorbachev and Yeltsin, who capitulated to the West, etc.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 26 August 2019 14: 41
              +2
              "Russian civilization in the form of the USSR was closed by Gorbachev and Yeltsin," ////
              ----
              Kindergarten ... so if Gorbachev stumbled and broke his skull, would the USSR still flourish? negative
              Oak, which seems mighty outside, has grown old and rotted inside. The Communists stole and led the whole Soviet people in this. The construction of communism failed miserably and no one from the Central Committee to the last hard worker believed in this idea. When Yeltsin banned the CPSU, not a single member of the CPSU objected publicly and did not go to fight. The complete collapse of both the idea and the economic system that tried to support the idea.
              1. RUSS
                RUSS 26 August 2019 16: 37
                +4
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Kindergarten ... so if Gorbachev stumbled and broke his skull, would the USSR still flourish?
                Oak, which seems mighty outside, has grown old and rotted inside. The Communists stole and led the whole Soviet people in this. The construction of communism failed miserably and no one from the Central Committee to the last hard worker believed in this idea. When Yeltsin banned the CPSU, not a single member of the CPSU objected publicly and did not go to fight. The complete collapse of both the idea and the economic system that tried to support the idea.

                People have a short memory, or they remember only good things, but in general, now, let's say, the fashion for everything Soviet, hence the "cry of Yaroslavna" about the lost country and time.
              2. Ehanatone
                Ehanatone 31 August 2019 21: 01
                0
                "The complete collapse of both the idea and the economic system that tried to support the idea."
                Put a minus, everything is correct, but very bitter ...
                Indeed, everything has degenerated into slogans, clicks ...
                And you in your hot, hot Africa will calmly survive my minus ...
                All the time I read your comments with great interest and attention, because it’s always on business ...
                But this time you are disingenuous, and with your intelligence, I venture to say that it is very conscious! ...
                The collapse of the idea, yes, almost immediately after 1953, I don’t remember when this gun .... Ts made revelations at the twentieth congress, but even that didn’t destroy the economy, and the Nobel Prize in Economics Vasily Leontiev, in the 80s The request of Judas the Mark confirmed:
                there is no collapse, there is no fatal error, it is necessary, but an adjustment, but within the framework of existing economic realities ...
                So dissemble the cu of the warrior, wow dissemble ...
              3. Ehanatone
                Ehanatone 31 August 2019 21: 50
                0
                "The complete collapse of both the idea and the economic system that tried to support the idea."
                Put a minus, everything is correct, but it is very painful and bitter ...
                Indeed, everything has degenerated into slogans, clicks ...
                And you in your hot, hot Africa will calmly survive my minus ...
                All the time I read your comments with great interest and attention, because it’s always on business ...
                But this time you are disingenuous, and with your intellect, I venture to say that you are very deliberately misleading! ...
                The collapse of the idea, yes, almost immediately after 1953, I don’t remember when this gun .... Ts made revelations at the twentieth congress, but even this chimo could not destroy the ideas of the social economy that were completely laid down before him, and Vasily Leontyev, Nobel Prize in Economics , in the 80s at the request of Judah the Marked confirmed:
                there is no collapse, there is no fatal error, it is necessary, but an adjustment, but within the framework of the existing economic models ...
                So you are cunning Warrior, Wow, you are cunning
                ...
                Yes, and there’s no collapse of the idea either, there is simply rotting at the root of a handful of garbage, which naturally happens in any society ...
                But the so-called free market is just not there, there isn’t everything, but there are a bunch of gopniks around the corner, with proposals to buy a brick, for only 20 rubles, and usually calling themselves a democratic and civilized society, and your country plays an important role in this! ...
                Sorry if touched somehow ...
                Extracted ...
                And he also took out a strange WOSH editor that destroys what you corrected there, and says that it’s for you now that you’ve been completely simplified ...!
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 26 August 2019 14: 49
              -3

              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              Gorbachev and Yeltsin closed the Russian civilization in the form of the USSR, capitulating to the West, etc.
              Reply

              Dear Edward, I note that none Of the country's leaders, Soviet civilization — Russian civilization — was not called.
              1. Edward Vashchenko
                26 August 2019 22: 53
                +3
                Good evening,
                this terminology developed after the collapse of the USSR, many researchers, relying on the work of Toynbee, where the clash of the West and Russia is the red line, as the main clash among civilizations, considered that this theory logically fills the gaps in formation theory.
                Yes, for the West as a whole, that Russia, that the Union-all Russia)))
                Yours faithfully,
                Edward
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 August 2019 09: 51
                  -2
                  Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                  Good evening,
                  this terminology has developed after the collapse of the USSR, many researchers, relying on the work of Toynbee, where the clash of the West and Russia is the red line

                  Good evening,

                  it seems that it is much more logical to use the terminology used by the CONTEMPORARIES themselves. They were able to use the term "Russian civilization" (it had been used for hundreds of years before them). But they categorically and deliberately rejected it in order to once again emphasize the TOTAL difference between the new "civilization" and the old
                  1. Edward Vashchenko
                    27 August 2019 10: 14
                    +1
                    Good morning,
                    this is not a scientific approach.
                    Nobody in the XNUMXth century knew the word "feudalism" - so not to use it now?
                    Yours!
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 27 August 2019 11: 43
                      0
                      Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                      this is not a scientific approach.
                      Nobody in the XNUMXth century knew the word "feudalism" - so not to use it now?

                      belay
                      Did "feudalism" exist BEFORE ... XI Century? No?

                      But "Russian civilization" existed before the Soviet one. And contemporaries had a CHOICE in the use of terms. And they chose. Moreover, they stressed in every possible way that the Soviet is NOT Russian.
                      1. Edward Vashchenko
                        27 August 2019 13: 34
                        +3
                        There was feudalism in Western Europe in XI, but it was not called that, the term appeared during the French Revolution and had a legal connotation, maybe he missed something: where was the term "Russian civilization" used before the revolution? Even Danilevsky, the forerunner of the "civilizational theory", did not write about this.
                        Best regards
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 August 2019 14: 58
                        -1
                        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                        Where was the term "Russian civilization" used before the revolution?

                        Where in the USSR was the term used ... "Soviet civilization"? belay
                        Russian civilization before the thief, already was.

                        Next denied his connection with her.

                        Do not remember:
                        "In the past (before the thief) we havee was and could not be the Fatherland. "(General Secretary)
                        ?

                        In the Russian civilization of the Suvorov, Kutuzov, Pushkin, Nevsky, Kolovrats, the Fatherland was:
                        "I swear to you honor that for nothing in the world I would like to change the Fatherland, nor have a different story than the history of our ancestorshow God sent it to us "(Pushkin).
                        .,
                        but someone has His did not havedenied. They appeared on them .... only after the THIEF.

                        The greatest monuments of Russian civilization were destroyed ...

                        Such is ... "continuity" belay
                      3. Edward Vashchenko
                        27 August 2019 15: 35
                        +4
                        Dear Olegovich,
                        I will not argue with you: for you, Russia is only up to the BOP, for me - until today, maybe I distort laughing
                        And about Pushkin - until this very VOSR in schools "our everything" was not studied. This is such Russianness.
                        Yours faithfully,
                        Edward
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 27 August 2019 15: 56
                        -2
                        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                        for you, Russia is only up to the BOP, for me - until today, maybe I distort

                        Russia has existed for over THOUSAND years: before the thief, after the thief, and until today. (INСP appeared only in the 1930s)
                        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                        And about Pushkin - until this very VOSR in schools "our everything" not studied. Here is such Russianness.

                        lol There are no words ....
                        Pushkin entered school anthology STILL AT LIFE!
                        (data taken from 108 school reading books for 1805-1912):
                        The most popular poems of the XIX century

                        (in parentheses - the number of textbooks in which the text was printed)
                        1. Pushkin. “Song of the Prophetic Oleg” (49)

                        2. Rings. The Song of the Plowman (44)

                        3. Rings. "What are you sleeping, man?" (44)

                        4. Lermontov. Cossack Lullaby (39)

                        5. Pushkin. Demons (35)

                        6. Krylov. Donkey and Nightingale (34)

                        The blown-up tombs of the saviors of the Russian civilization, Prince Pozharsky and citizen Minin, are "continuity", yes ....

                        Best regards
      2. Vitaly Tsymbal
        Vitaly Tsymbal 26 August 2019 11: 42
        -2
        It is not ethical to compare internal statistics in the Russia - West topic, it is not ethical (at least), give the data for the periods you specified in comparison of Russia and the "West" - only the West for all countries of America, the EU and Japan ... then it will be most reliable for the assessment situation in the country. And so - before the trees were greener, until the Bolsheviks painted them red with blood)))
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 26 August 2019 12: 12
          -7
          Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
          To compare internal statistics in the topic Russia - the West is not ethical (at least),

          You have not read the article? I answer a respected author who writes about our country before the thief and AFTER including Shading achievements:
          In the 30s of XX at. collectivization was compensated by industrialization and urbanization, finally implementing what was not done in 50 peaceful, post-reform years.
          Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
          give the data for the periods you indicated in comparison of Russia and the "West" - only the West for all countries of America, the EU and Japan ... then it will be most reliable for assessing the situation in the country.

          Report of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR 1955, on Istmat, and you will see: how much less food / clothing was consumed in the USSR than in Western countries (before the war and after) and less than in Russia in 1913
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            26 August 2019 14: 36
            +5
            I decided to upload data from Istmat:
            Compared to the nutrition of the population in pre-revolutionary Russia, the nutrition of the population in 1954 has improved significantly. The population of the USSR in 1954 per capita in relation to the pre-revolutionary period was (in percent):

            Bread Products - 90
            Potato - 204
            Vegetables and gourds - 165
            Meat and Fat - 119
            Fish and fish products - 133
            Milk and dairy products in milk - 114
            Eggs - 175
            Sugar - 258

            Compared to pre-revolutionary times, the nutrition of the population of the USSR improved both in quantity and quality: consumption of vegetables and melons, eggs, fish and sugar increased significantly, consumption of milk and dairy products, meat and meat products increased by 14-19 percent. It should be borne in mind that the labor of workers and peasants is currently significantly mechanized and requires less energy. Before the revolution, the labor of peasants, who constituted the bulk of the population of tsarist Russia, was associated with a large expenditure of energy: on mowing, energy expenditures reached 7300 calories, on a plowman with a plow - 5242 calories, on a bunch of sheaves - 4957 calories.

            Currently, over 80 percent of all agricultural work is carried out by MTS. For tractor drivers and combine harvesters, energy expenditures are determined approximately in 3200-3500 calories per day.
            The labor of industrial workers on a larger scale is mechanized, and therefore, at present, workers spend much less energy than before the revolution.

            Where is it that before the 1917 revolution, calories were consumed more? probably spent more)
            We will repeat, the Great Patriotic War just passed - the war of civilizations - dared five five-year plans, as a cow licked its tongue.
            Best regards
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 26 August 2019 15: 07
              -5
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              on 14-19 percent increased consumption of milk and dairy products, meat and meat products

              think about it: miserable interest - through 40 years "achievements" - after 1913!
              See what happened in 1937 (socialism built!) -Full failure in relation to 1913 on meat, milk, fish, bread, eggs, clothes, etc.
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              Where is it that before the 1917 revolution, calories were consumed more? probably spent more)

              There is a calorie intake in the RSFSR in 1954 - 2834 kcal.
              In Russia, up to VOR-about 3000 kcal.
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              We will repeat, the Great Patriotic War just passed - the war of civilizations - dared five five-year plans, as a cow licked its tongue.

              In 1937, 1940 there was no war, but there was a failure in consumption. hi
              1. Hantengri
                Hantengri 26 August 2019 19: 17
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                think about it: pitiful interest - after 40 years of "achievements"

                Olgovich, are you again trying to convince us that the teaching of mathematics in Moldavian schools is significantly different from generally accepted norms?

                1-1917 = 1955. Why are you writing 38? To make your OS seem even more terrible? Or do you just like round numbers?

                2. About 40 years of "achievements":
                Civil war 1918-1923 = 5 years.
                WWII 1941-1945 = 4 years
                Total we have: 38-5-4 = 29 years on achievements.
                Why lie, Olgovich?
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 27 August 2019 09: 55
                  -3
                  Quote: HanTengri
                  Olgovich, you are torturing again

                  I don’t communicate with swindlers.
                  Only after a public apology on their part
          2. Vitaly Tsymbal
            Vitaly Tsymbal 26 August 2019 21: 16
            +1
            Ldia Olgovich (Andrey)
            When I served in Kushka, our officers were given winter jackets, but they were not given warm pants for jackets, and my classmates who served in the North, in addition to winter field uniforms, were given sheepskin coats, following your rating system, it turned out that the consumption of clothing in TurkVO was lower than in other military districts))) And therefore officers in TurkVO lived worse than in other districts.))) From the point of view of the theory of "consumer society" - you are right, but only this theory arose in the middle of the 20th century! Historically, THAT WOULD UNDERSTAND, the processes that took place at different times need to compare not consumption, but the availability of food for different segments of the population, and even more so not to evaluate the statistical data - "the average temperature in the hospital".
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 27 August 2019 10: 00
              -1
              Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
              When I served in Kushka, we were given winter jackets to our officers, but they weren’t given warm pants to jackets, and my classmates who served in the North, except winter field uniforms, were given sheepskin coats, following your rating system, it turned out that the consumption of clothes in TurkVO was lower than in other military districts))) And therefore, officers lived worse in TurkVO than in other districts.)))

              the possibility of buying and issuing are two different things.
              Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
              In historical terms, WHAT TO UNDERSTAND, processes occurring at different times need not be compared consumption and availability food products for various segments of the population, and even more so not to evaluate the statistical data - "the average temperature in the hospital."

              1. What is ... "historical plan"?
              2. What is available is consumed. And the population in 1937, the year of BUILT socialism, meat, milk, bread, eggs, were inaccessible, in contrast to 1913
              1. Vitaly Tsymbal
                Vitaly Tsymbal 27 August 2019 19: 38
                0
                I thought that you are fully proficient in semantics, and therefore did not define the word "PLAN", which in one of the multiple meanings implies - plane, projection, slice. Simply put - in the historical sense, it should be perceived as - understanding from the point of view (in the plane of history), and not from the point of view of statistics. This is the first thing. Second. The statistics of the Republic of Ingushetia did not take into account some vassal regions (the Khiva Khanate, etc.), while the statistics of the USSR took into account all the republics, including the Central Asian republics, in which eggs and bread were not the main foodstuffs (a flat cake is not bread in the European understanding, but rather a culinary product made of flour). And statistics itself implies the collection and analysis of quantitative and quality data on mass social phenomena in numerical form. Thus, there is the concept of statistical analysis (in the sense of statistical research) and there is data from statistical studies. If you have ever conducted or read statistical research materials, you should understand that the results of this material are intended to make decisions, and statistical data is propaganda material for the purpose of manipulating public opinion. So, making a link only to digital data, you are trying to manipulate the opinions of those who read your comment, and not to show the real situation that was at that moment in the story about which you are writing.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 28 August 2019 08: 29
                  -1
                  Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
                  read materials statistical studies, you must understand that the results of this material are intended to develop solutions, and statistical data - this is material for propaganda in order to manipulate public opinion.

                  1. Statistical data - BASIS of statistical research - Report of the CSB 1955
                  2. The above Statdata are set out in the SECRET report of the Central Statistical Bureau of 1955. Therefore, what kind of propaganda?
                  Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
                  So, by making reference only to digital data, you are trying manipulate opinion of those who read your comment, not show real situation which was at that moment in the story about which you are writing.

                  1. "manipulates" the stomach; when you eat much less, it is indignant
                  2. Reality was even worse: not only did the statistics were false and biased, attributing, for example, the guts ... to the meat, but the same meat could not be bought without lines and deliveries.
                  Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
                  The statistics of the Republic of Ingushetia did not take into account some vassal regions (the Khiva Khanate, etc.), while the statistics of the USSR took into account all the republics,

                  Do not make idiots of owls. managers and CSOs preparing the report: they all knew it no worse than you and brought everything into a single coordinate system: otherwise comparison is meaningless.
                  1. Vitaly Tsymbal
                    Vitaly Tsymbal 28 August 2019 08: 46
                    -1
                    I was born in 1959, so I can’t judge whether the situation was worse or better in 1955))). If you have witnessed those ready, then you are ready to accept your point of view.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 28 August 2019 09: 15
                      -1
                      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
                      I was born in 1959, so I can’t judge whether the situation was worse or better in 1955))). If you have witnessed those ready, then you are ready to accept your point of view.

                      We are peers. Anyway, we can judge by the same reports, studies, and, of course, the testimonies of contemporaries.
      3. Edward Vashchenko
        26 August 2019 15: 13
        +3
        Dear Olegovich,
        one note:
        author: In such conditions, the outstripping pace of development of Russia compared to Western countries in the post-reform period, and especially before the First World War, in the absence of modernization, did not narrow the gap with these countries

        Here you just need to know arithmetic: with leading TEMPs, the gap disappears after a while.

        Alas, there is little to understand with arithmetic; economics are a little needed:
        the development of the economy went to Western capital, the country created a modern army to Western capital, therefore, profit and interest were derived abroad.
        That is, we are running very fast, but everything is for someone else's uncle wink
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 August 2019 10: 04
          -2
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Alas, there is little to understand with arithmetic; economics are a little needed:
          the development of the economy went to Western capital, the country created a modern army to Western capital, therefore, profit and interest were derived abroad.
          That is, we are running very fast, but everything is for someone else's uncle

          Alas, without arithmetic, no one has yet become successful: the example of Germany, Singapore, Japan, South Korea and others to help you: developed economies are built on WESTERN capitals and technologies: they quickly ran and ... yet, they ran far away ....
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            27 August 2019 10: 23
            0
            example of Germany, Singapore, Japan, South Korea

            So I'm talking about it, Germany is itself a part of the West, but Japan and South Korea became satellites of the West for this money. Japan carried out successful modernization in the second half of the 19th century, while the Romanovs were "sleeping", the pace of development of Japan was significantly higher than that of Russia at the beginning of the 60th century, as a result of their victory in the Russo-Japanese war and compensation for costs through the capture of colonies in Asia. But the quality of life of the masses did not improve until the XNUMXs of the twentieth century.
            South Korea - in the 30 years of the twentieth century. impoverished colony of Japan, development was already in the 60 years of the twentieth century, so that a higher order of science prevails over elementary actions laughing
            Yours!
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 27 August 2019 11: 35
              -2
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              ak and I about it, Germany is itself a part of the West

              After WWII-NO ONE and NOTHING. Loans and powerful development, the world's leading economy.
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              but Japan and South Korea became Western satellites for the money

              For this money they became leading economies of the world. Japan-sama-West, what else ... satellite? belay
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              as a result of their victory in the Russo-Japanese War

              Russia dr war-10 000 km of taiga and windbreaks, Japan-500 km by sea. Differences, don’t you see?
              Such a "victory", such a "victory" that the "winners" then ... rebelled and fought ...
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              But the quality of life of the masses did not improve, until the 60s of the twentieth century.

              so in the USSR caught up 1913 by this time, for the consumption of food, clothing, housing in cities, w / w (Strumilin)
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              South Korea - in the 30 years of the twentieth century. impoverished colony of Japan, development was already in the 60 years of the twentieth century, so that a higher order of science prevails over elementary actions

              That's it, from the 60s, after Western loans and technology, the world's leading economy, in everything.

              Everything is simple - arithmetic!

              I recommend to study Achilles task - and everything will become clear to you yes
      4. Rey_ka
        Rey_ka 27 August 2019 13: 29
        -2
        can be more detailed about the thousands of executions of 1937?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 27 August 2019 15: 19
          -2
          Quote: Rey_ka
          can be more detailed about the thousands of executions of 1937?

          About many hundred thousandth executions during the YEAR 08.37-08.38-know .... all. belay
          see Pavlov’s help.
    5. Civil
      Civil 26 August 2019 14: 14
      +2
      For the first time in its history, Russian civilization has thrown a real challenge to the West, or in military terms, seized the initiative.


      And what do we end up with? All that is possible has been "modernized" several times, so that nothing functioning normally in civil society remains. Since the previous reforms were not canceled, the whole society and the state functions for the sake of fulfilling the "standards" but not as development in accordance with common sense in conscience and morality. Huge legislation that, oddly enough, every citizen should know. As a result, there is no development. Great reform fatigue. I am waiting for one of the most important signs of the final decay of society, the most faithful, the fashion for sorcerers, psychics and the rest of the evil spirits will begin.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        26 August 2019 14: 41
        +2
        I agree with the comment,
        that's right
        Therefore, I write that there is no systematic approach to management.
        Upgrades come with blood, and then all "again twenty-five"
        1. Town Hall
          Town Hall 26 August 2019 23: 17
          -1
          Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
          Upgrades come with blood, and then all "again twenty-five

          Maybe because this is the result of the "forced" reforms praised by you, a la Peter 1 / Stalin. The people firmly associate "reforms" with sweat and blood and therefore oppose them a priori
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            27 August 2019 10: 10
            +1
            Of course not, the people firmly say that Stalin is the best ruler of the country. This is statistics.
            The story about "modernization" only as about blood is far-fetched, there were victims, but you have to look at the specifics.
            I found people who spent their childhood or youth under Stalin - not a single bad word, my own uncle, whose father was shot, idolized Stalin: one thing is personal, another is important for the country. It was in Ukraine - where the mess of 90's shocked these people, however, in Russia it was no better.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 26 August 2019 04: 11
    +7
    Russia, which has adopted Western technology, was able to withstand the West as a civilization.
    This was enough to immediately identify Russia as an aggressor.

    I completely agree with the author ...
    present Western civilization accepts the Russian world only in a subjugated state ... it does not accept the independence and self-sufficiency of Russia ... hence all these numerous provocations, sanctions, attempts to overthrow power by force, creeping through the color revolution.
    The West will never allow us to develop peacefully ... two world wars that came from there have trembled the vitality of the Russian people ... but nevertheless survived and are trying to stake out our place under the sun on planet Earth.
    I am watching with interest the historical evolution of Russia ... how it, in endless skirmishes with the West, is reborn again and again like a Phoenix from the ashes.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 06: 15
      +3
      Lech, I agree with you that: "does not accept the independence of Russia" and as a result of the sanctions and prch "joy"
  3. Ali Kokand
    Ali Kokand 26 August 2019 05: 13
    +3
    Misunderstanding is always mutual. The West is pragmatic, and this is its foundation. Even religion was chosen by itself (fractions of Christianity). Russia has its own characteristics, falling into extremes. No need to confront the West, take what is useful and go your own way. Loss of identity in relation to states is fatal.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 06: 54
      +4
      I agree with you: you need to get better from the West, but go your own way.
      1. Edward Vashchenko
        26 August 2019 14: 46
        +4
        I do not write about the opposition.
        The clash of civilizations is a scientific fact, and this must be understood.
        "Cognitive dissonance" struck our people, hence the shyness and hyper-exaggeration in relation to different periods of history, against this background it is difficult to accept a progressive concept: from here we come - here we go. I have an article about Byzantium here on VO - that's it, has civilization closed, or will this never happen to us?
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 26 August 2019 07: 28
      +2
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      Misunderstanding is always mutual.

      What is not understanding here? The essence of capitalism, the basis of Western civilization, has long been described by Karl Marx, but many have no idea what Russian civilization is ... hence - "We do not know what country we live in", "Deep State" ...

      Quote: Ali Kokand
      No need to confront the west

      In the 90's they tried not to resist and how did you like it? Capitalists conduct equal and mutually beneficial negotiations only with the strong. They simply take away from the weak what they need.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 26 August 2019 20: 44
        0
        Quote: Boris55
        Quote: Ali Kokand
        Misunderstanding is always mutual.

        What is not understanding here? The essence of capitalism, the basis of Western civilization, has long been described by Karl Marx, but many have no idea what Russian civilization is ... hence - "We do not know what country we live in", "Deep State" ...

        Quote: Ali Kokand
        No need to confront the west

        In the 90's they tried not to resist and how did you like it? Capitalists conduct equal and mutually beneficial negotiations only with the strong. They simply take away from the weak what they need.

        Did they take a lot from the USSR?
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 27 August 2019 08: 04
          +2
          Quote: Doliva63
          Did they take a lot from the USSR?

          Everything! The USSR is no more.
  4. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 26 August 2019 06: 24
    +4
    but large-scale government lending abroad and the power of external capital in Russian industry,
    Something it reminds me of.
    1. cradle
      cradle 26 August 2019 11: 31
      -2
      Well, what do you trump the rates of Sberbank in Europe? For a long time it's all chewed up WHY ... And what follows from this? Is power bad?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 26 August 2019 11: 58
        +7
        Who chewed? "Our" Government regularly cries about the lack of investment, and at the same time, we waste money in Europe. Normul?
        And we chew, you and I see different things. And yes, the power is bad. A good Serdyukov and Chubais would have long been buried under license plates at an unknown training ground.
        1. Hantengri
          Hantengri 26 August 2019 20: 09
          +2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          A good Serdyukov with Chubais would have long been buried under license plates at an unknown landfill.

          And you, the namesake - an esthet (Egil style)! Like me! drinks Apparently the name, of Scandinavian origin, badly affects us ... laughing
        2. cradle
          cradle 27 August 2019 06: 01
          -1
          you can’t please the liberals ... how the ITT scum shot back the tyrant, how the GDP calls for a friendly life ... You can decide what you want there.
      2. RUSS
        RUSS 26 August 2019 16: 41
        +1
        Quote: besik
        Well, what do you trump the rates of Sberbank in Europe? For a long time it's all chewed up WHY ... And what follows from this? Is power bad?

        Partly, the power, since 50% of Sberbank’s shares belong to the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, and there is no need to say that the Central Bank is not a power structure.
        1. cradle
          cradle 27 August 2019 06: 02
          0
          why not say if the constitution is so? What they fought for ...
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 26 August 2019 12: 37
      -4
      Um ...




      Quote: Ingvar 72
      The government regularly cries about a lack of investment, and at the same time in Europe, we have money. Normal?

      Sberbank is not a state office, and he twists his money, as he pleases, on completely legal grounds.

      About the rate - have you ever heard the word "competition"? Economist ... by diploma laughing
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 26 August 2019 15: 35
        +2
        I have long understood your kitty's position. Uncle’s wife, he’s up to ...... aunt.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 26 August 2019 15: 59
          -4
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Uncle’s wife, himself until ...... aunt

          In addition to bed metaphors - will there be no other specifics?

          Expectedly, to someone ... how much did you buy a diploma? wink
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 26 August 2019 21: 27
            -2
            Hello, dear! Your confrontation, frankly speaking, is already tired of the "opinions". Now you have got to the "story". Maybe you will somehow meet in real life and sort things out with the help of meat grinders, so as not to clog the air with personal claims?
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 26 August 2019 21: 39
              -2
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              Can you somehow meet in real life and find out the relationship with the help of meat grinders, so as not to clog the air with personal complaints?

              Since the appeal to me - I’ll answer, so be it ... the question: why, in fact, did you decide that you have the right to advise someone? wink

              And where can I communicate with, um, the patient - I don’t choose, he crawled here himself laughing
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 26 August 2019 22: 13
                0
                Well, excuse me, your remark was the last at that moment.
                And yes, undoubtedly, I have no right to give advice, however, having discovered your inseparable tandem in your favorite section, I decided that both of you had somewhat tired the society with your vendetta. Elijah Do you think that I have no right to express my opinion on the subject of your "get-together"?
        2. cradle
          cradle 27 August 2019 06: 03
          0
          this is your "position", but a person's convictions. laughing
    3. BAI
      BAI 10 September 2019 17: 07
      +1
      Although it’s too late already, but:
      Why are loans more expensive in Russia?

      At what interest does the European Sberbank give money to citizens of the eurozone countries, we understand and immediately a painful sense of injustice arises. Why do our bankers treat us like that? In fact, in the financial sphere accurate calculation and pragmatism rule. The bank will not work at a loss, which means that the minimum interest rate that a credit institution can afford must be tied to something. What is she attached to?

      In Russia, the minimum credit rate is tied to the refinancing rate set by the Bank of Russia. Now it is 7,75%, which means that the minimum loan price should be slightly higher. So we get consumer loans at least at 12,5% ​​and should be glad that the Bank of Russia lowered the rate a little. In the midst of the crisis a couple of years ago, it was much higher, respectively, and loans were more expensive.
  5. parusnik
    parusnik 26 August 2019 06: 43
    +3
    On business. Thank..
  6. vladcub
    vladcub 26 August 2019 06: 51
    +2
    The author calls to fence off the "Chinese wall", but history shows that this is not real.
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      26 August 2019 14: 50
      +4
      There is no such offer and never was.
      I repeat: the war of civilizations is a historical fact.
      Extremes come from hopelessness, and for no reason, in management you need to be able to solve problems, and not drive in, that's what I'm talking about.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 26 August 2019 20: 51
        +2
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko

        С

        "War of civilizations" - this is only after the 17th, because The Soviet Union has really become a new civilization on the planet. And before that - just an aggressive showdown between their own.
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          26 August 2019 22: 18
          0
          The USSR is a historical continuation of the Republic of Ingushetia, and civilization, it seems, began to take shape from the end of the 15th century.
          1. Capellan23
            Capellan23 27 August 2019 17: 21
            -3
            The Soviet state is not Russia.
            This historical and political truth must be understood and felt once and for all to the end. This must be done first of all by all Russian people, and then by all the peoples of the universe. It is necessary to think over the non-Russianness of the Soviet Union with the consistency and decisiveness with which the Communists themselves did it. And then we must accept all the essential conclusions that follow from this.
            When, at the height of the First World War, a defeatist resolution was adopted in Zimmerwald, when the historically famous agreement between the Bolsheviks and the German headquarters followed (see S. P. Melgunov's honest and responsible book "The Golden <German> Key of the Bolsheviks"), when Vladimir Ulyanov Upon arrival in St. Petersburg, he announced his defeatist and revolutionary communist program - the gap between Bolshevism and national-historical Russia was already a fait accompli. This gap manifested itself in everything: in Order No. 1, and in the secret flow of money, in the July uprising, and in the October uprising; all this and much more was a unified system of anti-Russian policy, which has been pursued since then without interruption to the present day. And when, in 1922, it was finally officially announced that Russia was renamed the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, this only expounded the basic truth of the Soviet system: the Soviet state is not Russia, and the Russian state is not the Soviet Union.
            Since then, the Communists have never called their state Russia anywhere and were right in this.

            https://imwerden.de/pdf/ilijn_sov_sojuz_ne_rossiya_1947.pdf
  7. kalibr
    kalibr 26 August 2019 06: 54
    +1
    Very good stuff, Edward!
  8. kalibr
    kalibr 26 August 2019 06: 57
    +2
    Quote: Ali Kokand
    going to extremes. No need to confront the West, take what is useful and go your own way.

    Very correct. "Lyubovya Yarovaya" - "We do not know the measure either in love or in hatred!" And it's time to know!
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 10: 08
      +5
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, alas, extremes are dangerous
  9. rocket757
    rocket757 26 August 2019 07: 46
    +5
    Quote: vladcub
    I agree with you: you need to get better from the West, but go your own way.

    Why only from the west ??? Any positive experience needs to be studied, although the opposite must be watched !!!
    There is no useless knowledge! It is not wise to use them!
    We go our own way, relying on ... our strengths and brains !!! This is normal!
  10. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 26 August 2019 08: 59
    +6
    Honestly, in the title and first paragraphs, Samsonov thought the author of the material
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 10: 11
      +1
      I was also sure that it was Samsonov and was looking for everything: "the evil matrix"
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 26 August 2019 14: 50
      +1
      This indicates a crisis in society: when the wild insinuations of the conspirologist Samsonov and the amateur historian Vashchenko begin to coincide.
      In fact, there is neither Western civilization, nor Russian civilization, nor Chinese.
      There are zigzags and leaps in the biological evolution of the human race. Each tribe from our species comes up with beautiful titles, not knowing where it is wandering. sad
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 26 August 2019 22: 18
        +2
        That's right, Alex!
        Only Vashchenko is not an amateur ...
        1. Town Hall
          Town Hall 26 August 2019 23: 20
          -1
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          That's right, Alex!
          Only Vashchenko is not an amateur ...

          Unfortunately...
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 27 August 2019 01: 03
            0
            The historian, in my opinion, can only deal with the distant past.
            Not less than a thousand years ago. Only then can you pretend to some
            objectivity (and even then not always). Investigation of a closer past
            inevitably slipping into ideology and political controversy.
            For example, the American and Russian historians do not quarrel, exploring
            Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar. May be published
            interesting collaborative stuff. And do they do Roosevelt or Stalin,
            nothing sensible will work.
            Therefore, the historian Vaschenko deliberately climbed into the "non-historical area" - modernity.
            Where the rules and laws are incomprehensible, as they change on the go,
            during the game (evolution continues).

            After a thousand years, the role of Russia in it will become clear. smile
            1. Town Hall
              Town Hall 27 August 2019 01: 20
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              In a thousand years, the role of Russia in it will become clear.

              As in that bike when Mao was asked about the significance of the French revolution of 1789 and he allegedly replied that too little time had passed to appreciate)
              But seriously ... then unfortunately in the USSR, history was turned from science into a subdivision of agitation and propaganda ... and now the theory prevails that history should serve the right patriotic education and so on ... here we are reaping the benefits. Including in the person of this user-historian who grew up with these settings
              1. Ehanatone
                Ehanatone 31 August 2019 22: 03
                0
                "But seriously ... unfortunately in the USSR history was turned from a science into a sub-department of agitation and propaganda ..."
                But you don’t explain what’s turning history right now, and, oddly enough, it’s not at all in the USSR
  11. verp19
    verp19 26 August 2019 09: 17
    +1
    The author perfectly expressed his thoughts, but I personally came across these words:

    free medicine, free education, free housing


    After that, my confidence in the author was sharply shaken. What looks like free is actually paid. Lack of understanding of this fact testifies to ignorance of the essence of the matter "civilization". Which turns the article into well-written political propaganda. But this does not answer the question - "What to do?"
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 26 August 2019 20: 55
      +3
      Quote: verp19
      The author perfectly expressed his thoughts, but I personally came across these words:

      free medicine, free education, free housing


      After that, my confidence in the author was sharply shaken. What looks like free is actually paid. Lack of understanding of this fact testifies to ignorance of the essence of the matter "civilization". Which turns the article into well-written political propaganda. But this does not answer the question - "What to do?"

      And what is wrong? I studied for free, received treatment for free, and received housing for free. Failure to understand this fact means that you are either a complete “kettle” or are engaged in political propaganda.
      1. verp19
        verp19 27 August 2019 13: 59
        -3
        Quote: Doliva63
        And what is wrong? I studied for free, received treatment for free, and received housing for free. Failure to understand this fact means that you are either a complete “kettle” or are engaged in political propaganda.


        Are you serious, or what?
        Think about how something from the void may appear in nature. Except in cases of divine intervention.
        Let's take "free" education as an example: Someone built a school, appointed teachers and paid the costs of maintaining the school, printed textbooks. All this represents an invested resource - raw materials and labor. If there is a nested resource, then in simple language it means that it has been moved from one owner to another. Regardless of the social system.
        How did the transfer of resources go under socialism? By ... increased exploitation of the working class. The worker worked hard and received wages, which were determined by the state. The product of labor was "common" property. And he (the product) is subject to redistribution through the bureaucratic state machine. Or the "labor-state-people" distribution chain. Under capitalism, a part is also redistributed by the state, but the main chain is "labor - capitalist - people / workers". Which at this stage is much more effective in increasing labor productivity.

        As for you, you received a free education, etc., because your parents and all working community members received such a salary. What can hardly be tied to individual productivity, of each worker (with all the consequences). And accordingly, this led to what happened to socialism.
        Of course, this is not about justice, but about the effectiveness of the redistribution of resources in society.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 27 August 2019 18: 37
          0
          Quote: verp19
          Quote: Doliva63
          And what is wrong? I studied for free, received treatment for free, and received housing for free. Failure to understand this fact means that you are either a complete “kettle” or are engaged in political propaganda.


          Are you serious, or what?
          Think about how something from the void may appear in nature. Except in cases of divine intervention.
          Let's take "free" education as an example: Someone built a school, appointed teachers and paid the costs of maintaining the school, printed textbooks. All this represents an invested resource - raw materials and labor. If there is a nested resource, then in simple language it means that it has been moved from one owner to another. Regardless of the social system.
          How did the transfer of resources go under socialism? By ... increased exploitation of the working class. The worker worked hard and received wages, which were determined by the state. The product of labor was "common" property. And he (the product) is subject to redistribution through the bureaucratic state machine. Or the "labor-state-people" distribution chain. Under capitalism, a part is also redistributed by the state, but the main chain is "labor - capitalist - people / workers". Which at this stage is much more effective in increasing labor productivity.

          As for you, you received a free education, etc., because your parents and all working community members received such a salary. What can hardly be tied to individual productivity, of each worker (with all the consequences). And accordingly, this led to what happened to socialism.
          Of course, this is not about justice, but about the effectiveness of the redistribution of resources in society.

          Empty, sorry, demagoguery. It seems that you have not studied the economy of the USSR.
          1. verp19
            verp19 28 August 2019 08: 59
            -1
            Quote: Doliva63
            Empty, sorry, demagoguery. It seems that you have not studied the economy of the USSR.


            Empty demagoguery, say ... Interesting, but empty here is only a place on the map where the USSR used to be.
            I graduated from an economical university and will tell you that I studied something. This is good.
            Please answer, when did the Soviet worker receive a "free" apartment? Immediately after entering the factory or what?
            Then remember how Marx did it - did you hear about this? He says so - the employee first gives his labor (in advance) and only later at the end of the month receives wages (remuneration). Of course, under the USSR it was completely different - the worker worked hard ... for years (fill in the ellipsis according to your experience) and then he received a "free" apartment. So that it was honest and some citizen with a bourgeois self-consciousness did not enter the apartment, there was a working off of the socialist hostels in conditions as close as possible to the combat conditions on the territory of some communal apartment, hostel or barn.

            Demagogy ... probably you are not at all embarrassed by the fact that a just and effective USSR has disappeared? Or is he somewhere out there, but we demagogically close our eyes to his existence?
            It seems that in Russia the Communist Party is represented parliamentarily? And how does she (the Communist Party) have a question with free apartments? Question pending?
            And by the way, I'm not a "teapot". I apply for a "samovar"!
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri 26 August 2019 22: 20
      +3
      Quote: verp19
      What looks like free is actually paid. Lack of understanding of this fact testifies to ignorance of the essence of the matter "civilization".

      Quite right. Everything "free" in the USSR arose due to the social nature of the distribution of what was called surplus product under capitalism. But now, under capitalism, you again, as a person completely free from the damned "scoop" have the sacred right to pay from your own pocket and "free" medicine, and "free" education, and "free" housing, but at the same time, you are forced squealing joyfully with emotion, leave the surplus product in the hands of effective owners.
  12. Moskovit
    Moskovit 26 August 2019 09: 41
    +4
    Again, the West is to blame. How much more time do we need to get rid of political infantilism?
    Did the West teach various Vasiliev and Arashukovs to steal billions? State Department employees forced Alpha fighters to rob banks and rattle during searches? Did Trump give drugs to Golubov?
    Nobody will ever shake an internally strong Russia. And for a rotten system and a penny broken will not give. In 17 and 91 it was perfectly demonstrated.
    1. Edward Vashchenko
      26 August 2019 14: 58
      +4
      Sorry, but you didn’t understand the point.
      The war of civilizations is a scientific fact developed just in the West. And Russian civilization - not a term coined by me - is universally recognized by the scientific community.
      In all of the above, the "West" is indirectly to blame, such a system is extremely profitable, no matter how politicized it sounds, it helps to obtain raw materials at minimal cost, this is all the West needs, and the costs - well, they are not so much, if anything, you can scold.
      The conditional West creates such regimes around the world for its own benefit - this is not a moral assessment, it is a political and historical fact.
      Maintaining a high standard of living that is not compatible with available resources can only be done this way.
      1. Alex_59
        Alex_59 26 August 2019 16: 47
        +3
        Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
        And Russian civilization - not a term coined by me - is universally recognized by the scientific community.

        Even a cursory acquaintance with the term "civilization" gives an understanding that the theory of the division of mankind into these same civilizations is not only not generally accepted, but also called into question. There is no consensus on this matter in the scientific community. All criteria for division into civilizations are very conditional. And we have not yet come to the question of a certain "Russian" civilization - we are still talking about the term as a whole. But when it comes to the "Russian" civilization, the question of the criteria immediately comes to the fore. Let's say that the term itself is possible, but on what basis are Russians so isolated? Genetic? Sorry, but we are Europoids, that is, the most that neither is Europeans. Territorially? Then we are also Europeans, but the Australians are not. By language? Our language is one of the Indo-European, to which almost all European languages ​​belong, but the Finns and the Hungarians are not a European civilization. Religious sign? We are Christians, like almost all Europeans, and Orthodoxy is just one of the many sects of Christianity, along with Protestantism, Catholicism, etc. - that is, we are Europeans again. Culturally? I don't know anyone who would be enthusiastically fond of reading Chinese literature or Afghan song, but almost everyone knows the Beatles or Shakespeare. Ask the first person you meet to name at least one popular song from China, or the United States - it will immediately become clear who is mentally closer and more understandable to us.
        And most importantly - it is not clear to me why should I invent a separate unique civilization? Is it really so difficult to save your face and your self, while remaining part of European civilization (as it is in reality)? Why are these extra entities. What, recognizing the fact that we are Europeans, we lose at least a fraction of our culture or identity? Somehow, after all, noisy Italians, silent Danes, cunning Americans and others succeed in this.
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          26 August 2019 17: 50
          -1
          Excuse me - I’m talking about science to you, and you are talking to me about the Beatles,
          I wrote in previous articles about the researchers of civilizations, if Braudel, Huntington, and Toynbee, who clearly distinguish the Russian civilization among a number of historical civilizations "inventors", then science does not exist at all.
          In earlier articles, I wrote about their theory: they all clearly write: Russian civilization is a European civilization, but different from other Western European civilizations. Just like the empire of the Romans (Byzantium - as it was called in the west) is a European, but a different civilization.
          These are not superfluous "entities" - this is science.
          if you do not understand, this does not mean that this does not exist: do you believe that the Earth is round or didn’t see it yourself? laughing
          1. Alex_59
            Alex_59 27 August 2019 08: 32
            +1
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            In earlier articles, I wrote about their theory

            The key word is "theory". This theory is not unambiguous, not generally accepted, but is just one of many views on human society. Rather, it is a set of hypotheses. An objective researcher working on the basis of scientific methods will not present this as a proven fact - he will honestly write that there is such an unproven theory, within which a number of researchers believe that Russia can be distinguished into a separate civilization. I have no complaints about such a formulation of the question.
            These are not superfluous "entities" - this is science.
            Science is a proven fact. For example 2x2 = 4, always 4, in any circumstances - this is a fact. In relation to the issue under discussion, the fact is that Russians are Europoids living on the European (most) and Asian continent, having a common language group with most of the peoples of Europe, professing one of the branches of the pan-European religion of Christianity, culturally and mentally closest to European peoples. Everything is with the facts. And then hypotheses and unproven theories begin about whether the Russians can be given their own separate, comfortable civilization. Which are also part of science, but are not facts - only concepts and assumptions.
            Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
            clearly distinguish Russian civilization
            In this case, would it be logical if Russian civilization exists, to assume that there is also an Albanian civilization, for example? Why not? After all, if the Russians can have their own separate civilization, then probably other nations can also. Why are they worse?
            1. Edward Vashchenko
              27 August 2019 10: 12
              0
              Sorry, but the argument is more senseless, that's why they say that our time is the time of militant amateurs.
              Who are you by profession or profession?
              Ready to discuss your theories?
              1. Alex_59
                Alex_59 27 August 2019 10: 33
                +3
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                Who are you by profession or profession?

                By profession, engineer-designer of telecommunication equipment. Age - 40 years. So don’t really have to be considered a fool. laughing I think it should have been understandable by the way I spell it. And I'm not militant, I'm kind and fluffy.
                The conversation will now turn, of course, into the plane of "lyricism" vs "physics". Well, yes, I am generally skeptical of the humanities in general, where there are no exact solutions, as in physics and mathematics (which do not allow for a double interpretation of the facts). Twice two is always four.
                Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                Ready to discuss your theories?

                So I am discussing. wink I say - ethnically we are Europoids. Religiously Christians. Geographically, we live mainly on the European continent. Linguistically, we belong to the linguistic group of most of the peoples of Europe. I hope you don’t deny that? Well, why should we be singled out as a separate "civilization"? In reality, it looks like an attempt to find a great proto-Ukrainian ancient civilization in one neighboring, small but proud country.
                1. Edward Vashchenko
                  27 August 2019 13: 43
                  +1
                  Alex,
                  Of course you have your opinion, but your opinion is wrong.
                  It’s a long time to explain, but if it’s simple: the story deals with a person, the object of study is a person, and here everything is not so simple as with radio waves or with 2X2, so someone should study in one specialty, someone in another.
                  But in history and football, experts are everything.
                  Therefore, I do not claim that radio waves propagate only in water, and stupid physicists cannot understand this.
                  Whatever looks stupid, sometimes listen to a competent opinion. Listening is an important trait, and only then express your "correct opinion".
                  You know how Vysotsky’s: the Magus would listen - another shield was nailed to the gates of Tsaregrad.
                  Best regards hi
                  1. Alex_59
                    Alex_59 27 August 2019 15: 21
                    -3
                    Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
                    Your opinion is wrong.
                    You, as a supporter of the scientific method, should know, for example, the words of Spenglerr, who argued that in the field of studying the world of people there can be absolutely wrong or correct opinions.
                    I will explain why I consider Russia and Russians to be part of Western or European civilization. Not for the sake of argument - I'll just explain. I believe that the allocation of Russians into a separate civilization is not just erroneous (why wrong - I have already described), but also harmful. This inevitably leads to opposition and clash between the so-called. "Western" and "Russian" civilizations. Regardless of whether our eternal participation in European wars was a battle of civilizations (according to your version) or within civilizational squabbles (according to my version), this is destructive for us. The West is objectively stronger economically and technically. We have repelled invasions from the West more than once. I see that after the collapse of the USSR we have no energy for further tough confrontation. Moreover, such a confrontation has largely lost its meaning today. Earlier there were ideological reasons, even earlier - religious ones. Today there is only one economy and redistribution of markets, but this problem is solved much more efficiently by non-forceful methods. Yes, it has already been resolved in fact - everything that can be bought up by supranational companies or cosmopolitan oligarchs. In this reality, it is difficult to lead people into the trenches to defend the fatherland from some mythical aggressive "west". For this to make sense, it was not necessary at least to surrender the USSR without a fight. But what's done is done. Therefore, I think it's enough to arrange a scarecrow for yourself in the form of an external enemy who supposedly wants to seize our economically very unprofitable expanses and wealth. All that is needed is already captured. Therefore, it is somewhat comical to stir up the myth of our greatness today. This line of defense has been surrendered. We are something like post-war Germany and the question is, what have we not yet surrendered and how not to surrender it? I believe that by ceasing to separate ourselves from Europe, we will get a different vision of the picture of the world and completely new incentives to motivate people. Not to fight against threats from the West, but to preserve our own cultural identity within the framework of our common civilization code with Europe. After all, Europe and the West are not homogeneous without us - there are many cultures and peoples. One of them is us. And within this Western civilization, we objectively occupy one of the key places. Therefore, of course, you need your own strong economy, and an independent policy, and a strong army. But it is necessary to end this uncompromising quarrel with the West. And on the contrary, the separation of Russians into a separate civilization only contributes to the aggravation of contradictions.
                    1. Edward Vashchenko
                      27 August 2019 15: 48
                      +2
                      Therefore, fomenting the myth of our greatness today is somewhat comical.

                      I do not incite, but the great past of our homeland is not comical for me.
                      Not to fight against threats from the West, but to preserve our own cultural identity within the framework of our common civilization code with Europe.

                      Don’t you understand - Bolivar cannot bear two, it was not me who invented the term "Russian civilization" or do you think for strategists and analysts in the west of Huntington a secret author? Historian Toynbee has been a senior official at the UK Foreign Office for many years.
                      It’s not me who invented, this is how the world works, it’s like electric waves - they exist independently of us.
                      And the separation of Russians into a separate civilization, on the contrary, only contributes to the aggravation of contradictions.

                      Not Russian, but civilization - which includes all the peoples of Russia and neighboring states.
                      See who is setting fire to our borders? Russia with its theory of civilization or Western dominating the world?
                      Russia has become so because it quickly formed as a civilization and to abandon its heritage means to abandon the father and mother. You are ready for this in the name of a mythical spike with Europe, I do not.
                      Threat I have nothing against Europe, very often I spend a lot of time there, but this is not the point, but that ...
                      no knowledge of history does not exempt from annihilation, something like that.
                      Sincerely.
          2. Doliva63
            Doliva63 27 August 2019 18: 54
            0
            Quote: Edward Vashchenko
            Excuse me - I’m talking about science to you, and you are talking to me about the Beatles,
            I wrote in previous articles about the researchers of civilizations, if Braudel, Huntington, and Toynbee, who clearly distinguish the Russian civilization among a number of historical civilizations "inventors", then science does not exist at all.
            In earlier articles, I wrote about their theory: they all clearly write: Russian civilization is a European civilization, but different from other Western European civilizations. Just like the empire of the Romans (Byzantium - as it was called in the west) is a European, but a different civilization.
            These are not superfluous "entities" - this is science.
            if you do not understand, this does not mean that this does not exist: do you believe that the Earth is round or didn’t see it yourself? laughing

            If Russian civilization is European, what to do with our Chukchi, Evenki, Altai, etc.? There is no need to primitivize, as is customary in "European civilizations"! My father is Pole, mother is Buryat, and I am Russian. Our zampotech was a Dagestani, his wife was Russian, the children were registered as Russians. There was a platoonman, a Chinese from Uzbekistan, a Ukrainian wife, and Russian children. So the Russians are a Eurasian civilization. Yes, the roots of the Russians are European - the Slavs came from there, but then they mixed with the local population, and then we "grew" in Asia and took a lot from it - in genes, in culture, in history (since we were together). And to call us simply Europeans is to disparage our history. We are Eurasians.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 26 August 2019 17: 07
        +2
        "The war of civilizations is a scientific fact developed in the West" ////
        ----
        This is not a scientific fact, but one of the popular concept that walks around the community of historians and politicians.
        As "class struggle" - another concept.
        Or "the struggle of nations for survival." Or "the unification of peoples in the name of peace."
        Visit Petersburg. Then visit Stockholm. If you do not know that one city in Russia and another in the West, you can easily confuse which of them belongs to Russian civilization, and which belongs to Western.
        The same houses, the same people, the same cars, the same cafes. What the fuck is the "struggle of civilizations"?
        This is what loser politicians come up with to justify their incompetence.
        1. Edward Vashchenko
          26 August 2019 17: 56
          0
          You are confusing everything, "name and title", unscientific ideas or concepts. Refer to the critics of the "civilizational theory", except for L.N. Gumilyov?
          Sorry, but from the point of view of the historian of architecture, Stockholm and St. Petersburg differ in a coordinated way, I speak as a historian, and how I visited the capital of Sweden more than once and twice in St. Petersburg, excuse me, I lived 15 years.
          The fact that Peter was built by European architects does not confirm that Russia suddenly became a different civilization.
          This is your opinion - you have every right, but it has nothing to do with science: I can also say that it seems to me that Newton’s laws or the theory of relativity is a popular concept, the same as the horoscope for the next week. laughing
          Best regards
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 26 August 2019 22: 51
            0
            The difference between the Swedes is that they do not have a crisis of self-identity, they live
            calmly and comfortably, without suffering the question of which civilization they belong to.
            If you declare to them: "Scientifically proven that you are a part of uh ... Polynesian civilization !!!"
            There they will raise eyebrows in surprise and move on as they walked.
            Countries in crisis are beginning to "look for themselves" in order to get out of the crisis.
            And in the turn are the genome, passionarity, classiness, a special soul
            and religion.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 27 August 2019 08: 48
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              The difference between the Swedes is that they do not have a crisis of self-identity, they live
              calmly and comfortably, without suffering the question of which civilization they belong to.

              Russia has a concussion after the collapse of a superpower. The situation is understandable and understandable when viewed from the side. People went through hard times and upheavals, especially the older generation - very disoriented. The collapse of the great powers is often accompanied by such crises of different depths and strengths.
              Sweden went through this period even earlier - at the beginning of the 19th century, when it also ceased to be the "superpower" of its time. They got mad and now live in peace.
        2. Trilobite Master
          Trilobite Master 26 August 2019 20: 32
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          This is what loser politicians come up with to justify their incompetence.

          I would not be so categorical about losers. Quite intelligent people worked on various theories "how we got to this life and what awaits us next" and they did it not in order to accuse or justify someone, but, most likely, just for their own sake.
          Personally, from what I managed to get acquainted with, the theory of Marx seems to be the most balanced and flexible, leaving fewer insoluble contradictions than, for example, the theory of Spengler or Toynbee.
          The dear author of the article is more sympathetic to the theory of civilizations - that means he seems to be more correct.
          It seems to me that there is no and cannot be a "special path" for any group of people, whatever you call it: people, ethnos, civilization, etc. We all differ from each other both in appearance and language, and in desires with aspirations, solely due to objective reasons, most of which are known and quite amenable to analysis.
          The concept that can be conventionally called "challenge - response" gives off some kind of chivalrous romance, a historical process, in my opinion, alien.
          1. Edward Vashchenko
            26 August 2019 23: 19
            +1
            Dear Michael,
            not to argue, but to clarify my position, I wrote in the comments here.
            The civilization theory, which became popular with us after the collapse of the USSR, in synthesis with formation theory makes it possible to consider processes much better, which many researchers have noticed.
            By the way, for specific studies in different directions, this explains a lot.
            Take Byzantium, nothing can be explained with the help of Marx's formation theory. All attempts by very professional sources to success did not lead to: no feudalism and all ...
            But the development and study of pre-class societies? The structure of the pre-Columbian civilization of America or the Arab-Islamic civilization?
            It is difficult to explain their development here with the help of the theory of Marx, which most likely refers exclusively to related European civilizations before capitalism and capitalist societies, since it levels culture at the initial stage of development.
            something like this.
            Yours faithfully,
            Edward
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 26 August 2019 16: 49
      +6
      Quote: Moskovit
      As directed by trump

      Trump is guilty of a fire and a flood in Siberia, Trump is guilty of the fact that every second hospital was closed in Russia from 2000 to 2015, Tram is guilty of the fact that since 2000 25,5 thousand schools have closed in Russia.
      Remind who came to power in 1999?
      1. vladcub
        vladcub 27 August 2019 12: 11
        +1
        Probably Trump?
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Vitaly Tsymbal
    Vitaly Tsymbal 26 August 2019 10: 45
    +4
    I will not argue about "before the Soviet period", but about the USSR - I disagree with the author. First of all, I do not agree with his paradigm - always catching up and challenging. First of all, during the Soviet era, it was not communist or socialist ideology that dominated, but Marxist (!!!) which was based on proletarian internationalism and the construction of a world order giving equal conditions for a normal standard of living. Thus, the race with the West was not an industrial technology, but in terms of living standards. But Stalin understood that in the agrarian country the proletariat should be in the majority, and therefore the path to industrialization was chosen (though it was carried out according to the principle of industrialization at all costs). Already by the beginning of the 40s of the 20th century, due to the industrial breakthrough, the standard of living of Soviet people was more attractive than the standard of living of the bulk of the population of the "West" torn apart by economic crises. But the Great Patriotic War began, after which the national economy of the USSR was restored as soon as possible and the standard of living of the population again began to show growth. And the lack of unemployment - is still a unique phenomenon - alas, now only in the history of Mankind. Such indicators of rising living standards were attractive to other countries (and not only to liberated colonies). It was taking into account Soviet experience that Swedish socialism was built. It is precisely a lot of the Soviet system of industrial relations that the Japanese took and adapted (rationalization, social competition, etc.). The system of Soviet secondary education was considered one of the most effective and high-quality in the world (probably even now it is - 100% percent literacy of the population at the level of equal opportunities for a "professional start"). The standard of living in the USSR (despite the constantly high consumer demand - the shortage of consumer goods) tended to a PLANNED increase. But we wanted everything at once and ... as in the West the best, most advanced, most fashionable .... True, we naively assumed that all this would be available to the bulk of the population, and not just to the rich. We were infected with the "microbe of consumerism" which, I hope, did not kill, in us the "gene of construction and creation". Thus, we ourselves (residents of the then USSR, including myself) destroyed the foundations of the USSR, naively believing that we would be able to satisfy CONSUMER REQUESTS AND DREAMS, naively believing that we need to take all the best from the West, which at that time exceeded (before the next crisis) level life in the USSR. Having passed the Yeltsin era of the destruction of the USSR’s inheritance, we managed to preserve the state, but did not maintain the tendency towards a systematic (rather than spasmodic) increase in the standard of living of the bulk of the population. And the increase in living standards today is not a priority for the current authorities. President Putin (and his team) is a man brought up and educated in the KGB primarily to protect the STATE from external and internal enemies, Prime Minister Medvedev (and his team) is a liberal lawyer who naively believes in the "rule of law." Therefore, Russia was involved in the global economy, but not for the growth of living standards in the country, but as a source for the enrichment of elected people. As you can see, both of our main "emblem eagles" are not economists, not sociologists, and therefore, as the author wrote, we will be in an "eternal catch-up-ahead", but not in terms of the standard of living of the population.
    1. vladcub
      vladcub 26 August 2019 13: 44
      0
      Where are these people? All business rests on Adequacy of the Leader
  15. depressant
    depressant 26 August 2019 11: 17
    +1
    Based on the fact that the remarkable author Eduard Vashchenko not only gave his historical review, but appeals to the present, I answer him with my brief and superficial review of some of its aspects.
    According to the latest data from the Accounts Chamber, the total land area of ​​the Russian Federation is
    1712, 5 million hectares.
    Of these, agricultural land is
    383, 2 million hectares.
    Of these, they are actually used for their intended purpose only
    125 million ha.
    At the same time, 200 million hectares are not known at all to whom they belong ...
    In the 90s, the rich bought a huge amount of land for a penny, not knowing how and not wanting to work on it. And so that the land is not taken away under the law on its misuse
    (N354-ФЗ), the rich every year re-register it to other legal entities. Therefore, it is impossible to establish to whom the land actually belongs and to take it out according to the mentioned law.
    However, for those who really work on the land, but because of the predatory interest rate on loans, they are not able to pay taxes on time (say, in livestock production the return is very slow!) Or a loan interest, they land mercilessly.
    Many livestock farmers are ready to significantly increase the supply of milk, meat, wool, cow skins (by the way, used to make sheepskin coats), but small land plots do not allow them to create a sufficient fodder base for this. And just try to seize a long-empty site belonging to some rich man! This is where the next "intermediate" owner will quickly be found, and according to the law on encroachment on private property, a prison awaits you ...
    At the moment, in the liberal economic environment, due to the continuous amazement of the Western "partners", who do not understand how it can be that arable and meadow lands are not used, a vile solution to the problem is being discussed. Let, they say, the state tense up and finally find the true owners of unused agricultural land. appointments, will buy back those lands from them and distribute to those farmers who really need them ...
    What, huh?
    It turns out, law N 354-ФЗ --- sideways! Fraud laws - sideways!
    Buy back! ...
    Redeem, but not for the pennies paid once, but at the real market value. From the budget of the country. That is, due to the same farmers and other agricultural enterprises that actually contribute taxes to that budget. Due to manufacturers of other products. Redeem and enrich the scoundrels.
    Redeem and distribute to needy farmers. Has anyone considered how much this will cost the budget? It seems that only bloggers can use computers in Russia ...
    And wouldn’t it be more honest, wouldn’t it be more correct to change this very same N 354-FZ? Land has not been cultivated for 3 years from the moment of its transfer to private ownership? Withdraw a gigantic fine on its last owner! To withdraw, despite the previously available powerful legal support, in the conditions of the amended law turns into nothing. Then it will disappear and
    "carousel" with an annual change of owners, allowing agricultural land to be overgrown with forest for more than 20 years.
    Well, like this!...
    Well, the owners, you see, are close friends, a circle of close associates who cannot be offended. It is easier and easier to enrich them by robbing the entire working population of the country. Once again ...
    In general, those who tried to give land to those who really cultivate it with decent methods are turning over in a coffin.
    1. Alex_59
      Alex_59 26 August 2019 12: 56
      +1
      Quote: depressant
      Redeem and distribute to needy farmers. Has anyone considered how much this will cost the budget?

      Why is this needed and to whom? Are we starving, are we lacking food? In my diet there is nothing imported, only domestic, local production. It can be made on imported equipment, yes. But with our hands and on our land. Moreover, all our supermarket shelves are littered with our product - I don’t want to take it. And the dust does not settle over the grain terminals of Novorossiysk, where grain is loaded for export. At the same time, as you correctly put it, a heap of land where something was sown before and is really empty and overgrown with forest. Do not find that there is a certain contradiction in this? On the one hand - a heap of land is empty, on the other - an unprecedented food abundance that no one dreamed of in Soviet times, and the lands did not seem to be empty. What explanation can be this contradiction?
      At the present moment in the liberal economic environment due to the continuous amazement of the Western "partners" who do not understand how it can be that arable and meadow lands are not used
      I don’t remember that the lands with high fertility were empty - on the roads of the Rostov and Krasnodar regions you cannot push through the columns of brand-new Kamaz grain-growers with trailers, all the fields are sown everywhere you look, harvesters are threshing, a column of dust. But in my region (Ural), where you can grow figs, especially in the north, where few people live, the climate is harsh - abandoned fields in bulk. In my opinion, everything is very simple. Business does not invest in agriculture where demand is low, transport accessibility is poor, and the efficiency of soil fertility is unprofitable. Such lands cannot compete with the southern regions, where production costs are lower. The maximum that is possible here is animal husbandry and a very moderate sowing of winter crops for the self-sufficiency of the region, because It is very unprofitable to carry expensive "northern" products from here to other regions - there is a manufacturer there, and the cost price is lower there. Transportation costs are protection against mass import from southern regions. It is possible to grow cheaper in Rostov, but while they are brought to the Urals, the price is already becoming almost equal to that grown locally. Due to all this, local producers live, and I see that they have long since merged by absorbing small enterprises, and do not live in poverty. It is not noticeable that they are not able to pay taxes. The latest technology, the owners drive jeeps. It doesn't fit in with the farmer's heavy share.
      1. depressant
        depressant 26 August 2019 14: 26
        0
        Dear colleague Alex_59 ...
        I do not want to be harsh.
        You are inattentively following government reports and, apparently, the prices of products. Due to the limited family budget, I have to do this. For example, without any announcement, the price of chicken legs with ridges over the past year has risen from 109 rubles per kg to 168, and in general, for all chicken products. The more expensive parts of the chicken - 200, 300 or more. What it was impossible to imagine a year ago. And somewhere around the beginning of last month, a message comes about an additional impending sharp increase in the prices of these products. Shortly before this, a 10% increase in prices for beef and pork is announced. Recently - an increase in prices for cheeses, confectionery and all dairy products due to an increase in the VAT rate on palm oil (instead of preferential 10%). They promise to raise sugar prices. Moreover, all this is official, and not arbitrarily trading networks.
        But why now the announced price increases are creeping in nature and, as it were, are not particularly striking? Although there is a place to be - the government has allowed it! Because the merchants themselves prefer to reduce their income somewhat, restraining the growth of selling prices with the growth of purchasing (wholesale), and not atrocious against people with low purchasing power, of which, imagine, the majority. But merchants will not tolerate the situation of lost income for a long time. They are not us, scattered buyers with a beggarly wallet. They are capable of consolidation, and it is not known how this can end for the government at a time when the profit of small stores goes to zero. And then larger ones. After all, food products that are not sold out due to high cost are not things, sooner or later they will have to be disposed of, which increases the seller’s losses.
        So why is this situation taking place with seemingly an excess of food on the shelves? Those that we allegedly produce ourselves.
        Firstly, because we do not produce enough for many positions, no matter how much you would like to believe the opposite. We partially import the same chicken even from Kazakhstan. From Latin America - meat. And the very fact of the increase in prices for dairy and related products, accompanied by a shameless explanation about palm oil, speaks of an acute shortage of natural cream for the production of sour cream, creams, ice cream and other things that are made from that cream. Because there are not enough dairy cows! But it does not, because the farmer does not have land to grow the crops needed to feed the livestock. It is expensive to buy feed, it is in short supply, and it is cheaper to grow it yourself. The same "Miratorg" grows its own food. And due to the lack of land, there are not enough farmers willing to specialize in expressing livestock feed.
        Secondly, the government decided to trade food products with foreign countries. And this is not a grain. A message flashed. With a shortage of ourselves. And it will be like gasoline. "Let's bring the price of gasoline to the European level!" This is with an excess of own oil. And with an excess of its own land in the country
        people are really malnourished. At least slightly lower prices, the shelves instantly empty. And a deficit will be revealed. And then modern refrigerators keep a piece of meat they have not bought for a week. I’m watching this in a nearby store. Lying alone (pork ribs). But he is - abundance!
        1. Alex_59
          Alex_59 26 August 2019 16: 11
          0
          For example, without any announcement, the price of chicken legs with ridges over the past year has risen from 109 rubles per kg to 168, and in general, for all chicken products.
          So, after all, empty and supposedly generous to the harvest alumina of the Russian middle zone is unlikely to fix this situation. Rather, the opposite. Forcing unprofitable lands into circulation will require investments (out of your pocket), which are unlikely to pay off. On these lands there will be no producer who can give such a USP on the market that will bring down the prices of products. At least in the existing reality and in our climate.
          At least slightly lower prices, the shelves instantly empty.
          With this logic, all over the world we have a deficit of "everything" in general. Reduce the price of any product and the counters will be empty. Would the planes cost like a Zhiguli, I would immediately buy a couple for myself.
          1. depressant
            depressant 27 August 2019 00: 18
            0
            Your last phrase says that you live in a world different from mine. And from the world of my neighbors. And from the world of my neighbors' neighbors. None of us will rush to buy planes and stuff. If they get cheaper. We go to the Five to buy a previously inaccessible product on the stock (price reduction). But do not reserve it for the future due to the scarcity of our budget.
            Here, I open Yandex, news, right now.
            The Ministry of Economic Development predicted a decrease in the income of Russians ...
            Peskov commented on the mass dismissal of surgeons in the Urals ...
            We live with you in different worlds. You see the tread of a new era of European prosperity, and I see how farmers from Tatarstan ask for land and cannot be interrogated. You point blank do not want to read the statistics I have provided. You do not want to understand that the amount of hectares indicated by me is those that previously, in Soviet times, were successfully plowed, sown, and rich harvests were gathered from them. Otherwise, they would not have been bought up by the nouveau riche. The inconveniences are a separate line, they are not needed by anyone and relate to the stock.
            In general, you do not want to see. Therefore, attend to the fate of your native country. Instead, ridicule those who do it. And since, judging by your statements, you have sufficient material well-being, then you are one of the new owners who are striving to finally bring the country under the control of foreign capital. And then the collapse of our Russian civilization.
            As you can see, it’s very easy, acting in the style of your method of defaming the interlocutor, to defame your best spiritual impulses.
            1. Alex_59
              Alex_59 27 August 2019 09: 37
              0
              Quote: depressant
              You see the tread of a new era of European prosperity

              Yes, there is no prosperity. But specifically for food there is really no problem. We should start producing airplanes, or normal electronics - that’s the trouble.
              Quote: depressant
              Otherwise, they would not have been bought up by the nouveau riche
              Business will not buy assets out of desire "if only no one gets it." I can not imagine any business in which there is an opportunity to freeze working capital by dropping them into land that will not generate income. There is some kind of understatement or misunderstanding hidden. Businesses can buy land in order to profit from them. If this is agricultural land with good yields, he will either start growing something or find a tenant. If the agricultural land is bad, they will build something. The cottages are the same. Buying land just because there is nothing to do is something anti-rational. It's as if you bought up all the chicken in the "five" and put it in the freezer for 30 years so that no one else would buy it.
              Quote: depressant
              Therefore, attend to the fate of your native country.
              I’m just worried about this. In order not to swell our money with you in any unprofitable game.
              Quote: depressant
              acting in the style of your method of defamation of the interlocutor, to defame and your best emotional impulses.
              I did not see defamation either at home or with you.
  16. cradle
    cradle 26 August 2019 11: 27
    +1
    Quote: apro
    no ideas. no people ...

    means ... we need an idea ... this question is already overripe
    1. depressant
      depressant 26 August 2019 15: 30
      +5
      In one of his top posts, Vashchenko correctly said that we have cognitive dissonance. For socialism, we went to die voluntarily on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, for the possibility of the existence of capitalism, many of us killed a part of our own population. And there is an understanding that the return of socialism as an idea that is most acceptable for our mentality will require such tectonic shifts that will finish us off.
      But leave it as it is? It is unlikely.
      I am for socialism with small and medium-sized businesses. Large - to the state. Specialized ministries instead of offices such as Gazprom and Rosneft. Gosplan! Foreigners - drive you up. Here's how to do it without blood? By the way, people will agree and how! Disagreement and the leader. They are well now, they are not responsible for anything.
      1. cradle
        cradle 27 August 2019 06: 06
        +1
        nor what will the people of ZA not achieve us. We ourselves will want what we want. Bullied capitalism, then change to socialism. This is our country and we live in it.
      2. Doliva63
        Doliva63 27 August 2019 19: 18
        0
        Quote: depressant
        In one of his top posts, Vashchenko correctly said that we have cognitive dissonance. For socialism, we went to die voluntarily on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War, for the possibility of the existence of capitalism, many of us killed a part of our own population. And there is an understanding that the return of socialism as an idea that is most acceptable for our mentality will require such tectonic shifts that will finish us off.
        But leave it as it is? It is unlikely.
        I am for socialism with small and medium-sized businesses. Large - to the state. Specialized ministries instead of offices such as Gazprom and Rosneft. Gosplan! Foreigners - drive you up. Here's how to do it without blood? By the way, people will agree and how! Disagreement and the leader. They are well now, they are not responsible for anything.

        Business is private ownership of the means of production, that is, capitalism. Socialism is public property. Their confusion does not make the country socialist. It will be something like state capitalism. But - capitalism! Only the renunciation of private ownership of the means of production makes the system socialist with all that it implies, so to speak. And the fact that in the PRC is feudal capitalism, which sooner or later will throw off the mask and show its "face". Ilyich also said that either this or that, the third is not given. Make no mistake.
  17. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 34
    -2
    Recently I read an excerpt from a new alternative historical book, I think my colleagues will be curious, the topic concerns a more educational philosophy, but some of the messages are very interesting. I hope that the commentary will be enough for the simultaneous placement of the fragment .. Alas, it was not enough, it will have to be laid out in parts. A lot of controversy, especially in the conclusions, but the reasoning is interesting ...
    Fragment No. 1
    - ... Let’s understand then what kind of beast this is, education, why it is needed and what it is eaten with.
    The state, as we all understand, is not just the sum of power structures and influence groups, but a certain organism. Dumb, scary, but the body. And like any organism, its main task is to preserve and reproduce itself. Therefore, they teach those who will be needed. Not so much taught as educated in the spirit.
    Speaking scientifically, education is a function of social needs. A reasonably organized society needs specialists and potential leaders. What they should be, determines the ideology shared by most of society in one or another period of its development.
    In the post-Soviet space, ideology as a system of incentives for social development is absent. Partly it is replaced by propaganda, partly by religious rituals.
    The elite that has formed throughout the fragments of the Union is destructive. Its main tasks are organizing exactions from the population, robbing the remnants of the Soviet heritage and exporting raw materials (who has what).
    As soon as possible, we managed to carry out a total de-industrialization of the post-Soviet space. Yes, so conscientiously that the revival of industrial potential is out of the question.
    There is no need for technical specialists. They just have nowhere to work. The former industrial giants, who are living on the last days, do not know how to get rid of the specialists they have.
    Seriously declare the possibility of mass employment of young engineers can only commercial universities during the entrance examinations - to attract applicants on a fee basis. For all sane people, this causes a skeptical grin at best.
    A dying society does not need either specialists or leaders. The second - especially, since in the conditions of disconnection of social elevators, they pose a potential threat to public order. They have nothing to do but criminal activity or preparation for emigration. Independently minded people are all the more unnecessary.
    - And who is needed?
    - We need lawyers, specialists in accounting, credit and finance, managers, service staff, sellers of all varieties, construction workers. Mostly not too highly qualified. Therefore, in the post-Soviet space, a diploma of higher education, already fairly devalued in late Soviet times, has become just a prestigious piece of paper, an accessory of its kind.
    The academic ranks and degrees have depreciated since everyone knows how much it costs. And the literacy of the holders of these papers is such that some Presidents - and part-time professors write this word in two "f" and one with - "proffesor".
    I was personally convinced that our extremely corrupt education system produces mentally miserable young people with great ambitions. These are not professionals. Rather, a ready-made funeral team for the society that gave rise to them.
    Needless to say, the collapse of the higher education system has led to a decrease in the educational requirements for graduates of secondary and vocational educational institutions — schools, technical schools, and technical schools.
    - What, was it better in the USSR ?!
    - It would be better, we would live differently. Now it’s fashionable to recall the allegedly lost high quality of Soviet education. Unfortunately, this is far from the case. A totalitarian society aimed at achieving world domination has never set itself the goal of educating thinking people. The USSR was essentially its own, a combat vehicle, originally intended for the forcible dissemination of communist ideology. As you know, a combat vehicle does not need crew members with independent thinking. The society of a totalitarian state, first of all, should be absolutely manageable. In the second - to possess the necessary skills. Yes, specialists were needed in various fields of knowledge. Making weapons requires skill. Therefore, the Soviet education system had to solve a difficult problem: "How to prepare a specialist with completely absent critical thinking?" The task is not simple and internally contradictory. How to solve complex scientific problems without being able to compare and draw the right conclusions? Therefore, the USSR trained specialists by the drag-and-drop method. All potentially useful information was hammered into the heads of young people and explained how it should be interpreted.
  18. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 35
    -4
    Fragment No. 2
    A step to the left or to the right of the party’s general line was considered an escape, a jump on the spot was considered a provocation. But the performers turned out to be politically literate, reliable. Science, especially fundamental, with the departure of representatives of the old Russian culture, slowly gave up the spirit, not paying attention to the grand investments in it. Therefore, the functions of science were left predominantly representative, with the task of bridging the technological gap in the service of foreign intelligence. The history of our technology is known. Anything of any value was borrowed abroad. Atomic bomb, Christie’s tank suspension, von Braun’s rockets, machine tools and aircraft. Some products by the highest order, copied "to the bolt." The reason for the technological lag was clear to the authorities. In itself, it was easily overcome during the life of one generation, which was further demonstrated by many peoples, but the same Japanese. But only the only possible recipe for overcoming our lag was unacceptable to the party.
    Meanwhile, it is simple: building an education system on the solid foundation of the humanities. Let me explain in more detail: before learning a profession, a person should be taught to learn, give him the correct methods of memorizing, comparing and evaluating information. Then you should teach him to draw the right conclusions. Not a single school in the former Soviet Union has ever heard of rhetoric, assuming that it is merely a science to speak beautifully. Meanwhile, “Rhetoric for Genesis”, written five centuries before the birth of Christ, is still widely studied in a civilized society.
    In addition to the ability to build speech, she teaches how to build palaces of memory, remembering, in this way, huge amounts of information. Meanwhile, it is possible to evaluate information only if you remember at least the main thing. The right conclusions can be made only by mastering the methods of logic, which was also not taught.
    By the way, well-formed arguments are a powerful tool to attract people to your side. The tongue-tied stutters rarely reach a prominent position in society. Rhetoric is useful in every way. The Bolsheviks, especially the first generation, knew this very well, but it was impossible to give such weapons to the hands of the masses. This would make the governed insensitive to demagoguery.
    Foreign languages ​​were studied in such a way that the teachers themselves did not really know them. Soviet education was isolated from the world, lacking the basics, and the ability to obtain relevant information. There were exceptions among the graduates, but in no case was the merit of the system. A Soviet-educated person is for the most part a creature, something memorized, but not really able to take advantage of the serrated. And even not always understanding that it actually remembers.
    The state, deprived of its educational system and development ability, turned out to be fundamentally unreformable. As soon as it turned out that the goals set for the USSR were unattainable, the Bolsheviks hid a whip behind their backs, spat out their awareness of complete hopelessness, and set about solving their own material problems. The country rolled downhill. At the same time, citizens of the USSR mistakenly, by virtue of the education they received, accepted a fall into the abyss as a flight to a brighter future. And they did not complain at all. They were taught to make decisions without criticism.
    The system of education of slaves and moral freaks worked perfectly. Post-Soviet education has remained essentially the same. Teachers smoothly moved from one system to another. In full readiness to follow the instructions of the authorities. Now, in the absence of production, the education system no longer needs to give students specific skills. Therefore, its complete degradation is evident.
    As usual in the history of Mankind, the battle with reality ends in the death of a community that decided on such stupidity. The fragments of the USSR, which are now fashionable to call the Russian world, are doomed.
    We probably know that about 50 million people have already lost in an unequal struggle with themselves. The USSR requested or stole technology in the hope of producing everything on its own. The present have no such hope. They beg for finished products. Producing something high-tech in the entire post-Soviet space is incredibly difficult. Or did you still hear something like this about the new video cards developed by the Kazakhs or Ukrainians? No? It’s strange.
    No science and culture is possible without real freedom, the method of reproduction of culture is humanitarian knowledge. The tsars and the Bolsheviks who succeeded them could not tear one from the other. It will not work for the small satraps of the post-Soviet zone. You can even keep engineers behind bars and shoot them for blueprints for failing to deliver on time, you can heartily feed intellectuals behind bars by inserting golden teeth instead of those knocked out by an escort. In the short term, this helps quite well. But it’s impossible to keep the whole country tough for decades. Checked by comrades Stalin and Beria. You can buy or steal the best equipment. Useless. Checked by comrades Brezhnev and Khrushchev. Does not help! All the same, one has to turn to foreign specialists who possess, in addition to knowledge, also culture.
  19. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 37
    -4
    Fragment No. 3
    The Bolsheviks, especially from the first, were well aware of the inextricable link between Culture, History and Knowledge. But they could not do anything. The presence of a truly cultured people did not guarantee them power in any way - a decent person does not accept dictatorship in principle. Therefore, the Bolsheviks went their own way. Logical thinking has become an ideologically harmful distortion of the party line. Systemic thinking was equated with treason. Trained by training. The history of the country and its culture was continuously rewritten according to the results of internal party squabbles. Therefore, knowledge and technology were not given into the hands of duped people.
    Even Peter 1 voiced the dream to learn everything needed in the West, and then arrange for teachers to end the world with the help of knowledge gained. For centuries, the dream was shared by the entire Russian elite and was enthusiastically received by the Bolsheviks. All of them were not able to understand and are not able to understand so far that a complete perception of the principles on which the culture of developed countries rests will make students a part of this culture, will change their thinking. Good students have no desire to overtake a teacher just to show his ass. And if you study poorly, then even more so, you will not catch up. The last two centuries of unsuccessful attempts have proved the above statement irrefutably. The laws of the development of society have been open and studied for a long time. They are simple and merciless. The development process is ensured by the actions of the elite. The condition for the existence of a genuine elite is the presence of discussion in society. In the Russian state and all subsequent entities on its basis there have always been two opinions. Right, that is royal, and wrong. Because no discussion. As before, either frank lies or simply blatantly illogical interpretation of known facts are used for their legitimization. It is a well-known fact that enlightened people around the world held their bellies when the king "Ivan the Terrible" decided to tell the world about his descent from Caesar Augustus himself. It was no less fun to listen to the very recent fables about the origin of all peoples from certain "first-moans", who, among other things, dug up the Black Sea. I will say more, each piece of the former Great Satrapy managed to contribute to the anthology of illiterate nonsense on historical topics.
    The fact that the education system or any part of it will solve the problem of elite reproduction has never been discussed. The late CPSU and the Komsomol did not trust anyone but themselves in such a delicate matter. Intra-systemic discussions were suppressed with the same fury as peasant riots. Accordingly, the elite did not work. Marauders were grown. Currently, in the entire post-Soviet space there are no privileged schools and student communities. Existing institutions are completely fictitious and perform only representative functions. In the top 500 leading world universities there are 6 Israeli universities and only one St. Petersburg University. Moscow State University, covered with legends inside the country, has not been there for a long time. Meanwhile, the criteria for evaluating universities are completely transparent. This is the number of prestigious awards and a citation index of the works of their graduates.

    The great Russian historian V.O. Klyuchevsky express simple truths about education. And what? And the fact that Klyuchevsky is still not accepted in decent society is mentioned. Quote:
    “When new and difficult tasks arise for the European state, it seeks new means in its people and usually finds them, because the European people, living a normal, consistent life, working freely and thinking, without special exertion, devote a pre-prepared surplus to help their state their work and thoughts. The thing is that in such a people, cultural work is carried out by invisible and elusive, but friendly efforts of individuals and private unions, regardless of state. Our business went in the reverse order. Since then, a uniform phenomenon has been repeated more than once. The state became entangled in the emerging difficulties; the government, which usually did not provide for them and did not warn them, began to search in society for ideas and people who could help it out, and, not finding either one, reluctantly, turned to the West, where it saw an old and complex cultural device that made and people, and ideas, hastily aroused from there masters and scientists who would bring something similar to ours, hastily built factories ... ”
  20. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 38
    -4
    Fragment No. 4
    It is noted that even with borrowed technology, our lag is only exacerbated, and the technology is junk. There are no examples of this. Even the purchase of factories and technologies did not solve much. Every motorist knows what the Fiat-124 in the Soviet version turned into. What can we say about direct copying attempts.
    To develop and generate ideas is possible only on the solid foundation of humanitarian knowledge. We have never had anything like European, almost self-governing cities. And even more so, universities that are completely independent of the state. And where there is no independence, there is no independent thinking. We often curse some evil “West”. Perhaps there are reasons for this. But there are, and for a long time, independent, independent, with strong traditions, educational institutions. In which young people are accustomed, without fear of anything, to conduct discussions on any topic. It is in the learning process that there is consensus on all the basic issues of the functioning of the state machine and the future elite of society is advanced.
    Our total inability to think makes us extremely vulnerable to other people's theories of transformation of society. We readily and ourselves to the death pick up absurd nonsense. And then we pay with blood. What the Russian world cost the theory of a bearded lover of cigars and beer, we know approximately. It is approximately, because the exact number of victims of the Civil War, famine, repression, forced confrontation with the whole world can not be determined exactly. The cost of foreign economic development models accepted on faith is still unknown. But now it’s clear that we are not only paying with money and irreplaceable resources. We pay with blood. Verily, there is nothing more practical than a good theory. The main thing is to throw her in the right place. Like a grenade, away from yourself.

    At the same time, the West itself with enviable accuracy determines the possible consequences of the implementation of the theories created by it. Mental infection does not take societies that can think. In our country - almost like the Indians of America. Only instead of smallpox infected blankets is ideological poison. With the same roughly result. Ideological constructs such as the Wahhabi version of Islam shatter sovereignty to smithereens, turning countries into territories.
    Richard Dawkins wrote well about the causes of the harmfulness of other people's ideas: “Darwin's natural selection forms a child’s brain with a tendency to believe elders, with the ability to imitate and copy, and therefore indirectly with the ability to spread rumors, legends, and religious faith. But, having created such a brain, genetic selection gives rise to some new kind of non-genetic heredity, which can serve as the basis for a new kind of epidemiology and, possibly, even a new non-genetic Darwinian natural selection. ” As a result, everything happens according to long-known rules. Rich countries are getting richer, poor countries are getting poorer. The barrier between the former and the latter becomes insurmountable in principle.

    Psychologists have long identified the connection between stupidity and susceptibility to mental infection and religiosity. Actually, any religion is a mental infection that reduces the ability to critical perception of information. Statistics confirm that we live worse and more religious. Therefore, our society as a whole is more suggestible. The more difficult it is for those who, living in it, are trying to resist manipulation. Like a religion parasitizing on the authority of spiritual teachers, all sorts of “isms” turn people infected by them into helpless puppets, and their resources become the prey of the creators of attractive theories. Most fraudulent schemes are also based on weaknesses and uncritical thinking of potential victims. The difference is only in scale. A petty crook robs a few. Respectable gentlemen - most of the planet. If there is no ideological immunity, then you will have to suffer. Such, unfortunately, is the law of nature. To develop resistance to mental infection, we need time that we do not have. The current openness of information and the global communication network make resistance attempts futile. Life in a society where there are only two opinions - the authorities and the wrong one, where for centuries they have been rejected on the basis of "leaned out" did their job. Power is powerless and is not able to come up with anything constructive. There is no one to think about. There are no intellectuals. And there is no place to take them - they do not grow where you can get in the mouth for having your own opinion.
    Decades of negative selection equally affected all nations and nationalities of the Russian world. To which Georgians, Jews, and Kazakhs with the Chukchi equally belong - in short, everyone who happened to live on the lands of the country of victorious socialism. All people of the Russian world are characterized primarily not by nationality, but by their common culture and way of thinking. Accordingly, “homo soveticus” is identified by its inherent mentality. It’s like in a series of old anecods, when a compatriot was unmistakably identified in distant foreign countries by the way of crossing the street, not paying any attention to traffic signals or by habit of throwing cigarette butts into the urinal. The mentality of what to do. Well, a culture of behavior too. Both together - like a brand on the forehead. Since childhood, we have been filled with fairy tales about Our Great Culture (Soviet, Russian, Ukrainian, and so on). The number of lies and fraud in this area exceeds all imaginable. Even a layman with brains polished by television, and he doesn’t believe everything. But much lingers in the head and fogs the brain. Sometimes it comes to completely anecdotal statements about the priority in the discovery of all the basic laws of physics, that we are the homeland of elephants and prophets, that theirs Atilla is “our Gatyl”. Not a single small-town nationalist remained aloof from the process of self-praise.
    Russian culture is the oldest of all the cultures of the post-Soviet space. Its golden age was in the middle and late 19th century. And it remained for some time, despite the onset of the era of hatred, which lasted from 1914 to 1991. By the time of the natural onset of the period of decay, which continues before our eyes, little remained of that great culture. In the future, all the achievements of this culture were attributed to the Soviet regime. He also managed to create a certain special entity called "Soviet culture", which was not culture at all, but parasitized on the last representatives of Russian culture. As they say, ““ unlucky. ”In fact, there could be no other way - the USSR was a state designed not for the happy life of its subjects, but for great achievements on the way to realizing the crazy plans of a German accountant. he lived in a mythological space, endlessly thanks to the leaders for his happy childhood. The key event for the culture of the Russian world is the Second World War. It was made a kind of symbol of the eternal struggle between Good and Evil. Forgetting that the preparation for that war was most intensively conducted by the Soviet Union. Remember: "We are kindling a world fire." And there is more than enough documentary evidence of the aggressive essence of Soviet policy. The USSR fought for ideological chimeras. Just like Germany. And everyone else more or less clearly understood that there was nothing to catch, there would be no production, therefore you need to take care of yourself, keep aloof, maneuver and avoid unnecessary losses.
    Hence the position of France, which de facto double-sided. Spain, which could not be lured into trouble even by Gibraltar. Finland, which had a frankly negotiated match for the bad guys and finished the last half for the good guys, Hungary, who tried unsuccessfully to do the same, Belgium, who defended the honor of the uniform for four days, or Czechoslovakia, which indicated the existence of the Resistance with the help of symbolic actions. The warring parties had their own interests in the First World War. Then the future of the world was at stake, and everyone fought seriously for their place under the sun, by all means and without regard for losses. But the Soviets managed to get out of this war when the country was not even a step away — half a step from the great victory. The people who really won that war were mostly born in the Russian Empire, but this is not customary to recall. Throwing the veterans of the Main War into poverty for their complete uselessness, having perverted history, my compatriots still look at the world through the prism of their own false tales. From the same perspective, cultural achievements are evaluated. And just as deceitfully.
  21. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 40
    -5
    Fragment No. 5
    The high cultural level of the country implies high-quality reproduction of intellectuals. In other words, a viable education system. Decent and wealthy people avoid the domestic education system like the plague. Their children study abroad and acquire persistent idiosyncrasy to their native country. And not because they are taught not to love her. But only for the reason that having become part of world culture and adopting its approach to assessing the events and the weight of the contribution of the native country to the development of civilization, they are most often disappointed. We have done a lot for the world, but our contribution was not decisive. To think differently is to engage in self-deception. We are fooling ourselves. This condition in society is maintained artificially. And then the dream of reason gives rise to chimeras and monsters.
    The sun of Russian literature - Pushkin, is almost invisible against the background of the real greatness of Shakespeare. What can we say about such characters as Tychina, who glorified the country with verses like: "In the field a tractor holes-holes-holes / We are for prac, we are for peace."
    Anywhere, but not with us, it is known that Lomonosov discovered the law of conservation of matter exactly one week after the arrival of the French newspapers, where the corresponding conclusions of Lavoisier were reported.
    We prefer to forget that Mendeleev used his research extensively in creating the periodic table of elements. And although his contribution to science is great and undeniable, it was not only the result of a certain insight, he stood "on the shoulders of giants."
    The list of controversial priorities is huge. Almost every one of us, if desired, will recall its main points. Many Internet resources produce approximately the same list:
    1. Lomonosov and the law of conservation of matter.
    2. Lomonosov and the Venusian atmosphere.
    3. Sliders and steam engine.
    4. Balloon - Kryakutnoy vs Montgolfier brothers.
    5. Artamonov and a bicycle. Ours believe that their baron von Dreis will have enough and a trolley.
    6. Mendeleev and the periodic system of chemical elements.
    7. Steam locomotive: father and son of the Cherepanovs vs Stephenson.
    8. Antarctica: Bellingshausen and Lazarev vs Smith.
    9. Arc lamp: Yablochkov vs Edison.
    10. Incandescent: Lodygin vs Edison.
    11. Caterpillar track: Pancakes vs Best and Holt vs Duboshe.
    12. Radio: Popov vs Marconi.
    13. Aircraft: Mozhaysky against the Wright brothers.
    14. Lebedev and synthetic rubber for German technology.
    15. Zvorykin and television.
    16. Missiles, including Katyusha (as an option: von Braun vs. Korolev).
    17. Helicopter - Sikorsky vs Leonardo da Vinci.
    18. Prokhorov and the laser.
    19. AK-47. A particularly indecent story, I must say.
    20. Kotelnikov vs. Shannon.
    21. Losev and LED.
    In all cases, the Russian official position is unequivocal: ours were the first. For some reason, they think differently abroad. Compatriots who have received a decent education by world standards often consider the second point of view to be fair, which contradicts the official version. Firstly, they understand perfectly how many times we officially rewrote history and what happens to the truth. Secondly, once they found themselves outside the borders of the “Russian world”, they realized that we are perfectly susceptible to the achievements of science and culture, but in most cases they can only be its carriers. Which, by the way, is not bad at all.
    Our "inventors" of inventors in most cases do not lie. They, like real card cheaters, correctly distort. Their characters actually made discoveries. And precisely those in question. Often, earlier than those who are considered to be the first. Watt, Fulton, Edison, the Wright brothers and others could be second. We replaced them with the Cherepanovs, Polzunov, Kryakutnoy, Yablochkov, Mozhaysky. The cunning of substitution is that before a great invention becomes a reality, it is done more than once.
    However, inventing a computer among cannibals is pointless, even if we assume that this happens. The main thing is that society is ready to accept the invention and make it a part of its culture. The support of Nartov remained a product made in one copy. Mozhaisky plane was taken to a landfill. The arched bridge of Kulibin suffered the fate of a garden sculpture, sweet and useless.
    At the same time, the Wright brothers' aircraft gave birth to modern aviation. And the Maudsley lathe and the Pratt milling machine are a modern metalworking industry.
    Moreover, if Sikorsky or Zvorykin worked in the USSR, the fate of their inventions would be deplorable. The methods for generating inventions developed by the Soviet scientist Altshuller are studied at US universities, but forgotten in their homeland. We still use outdated brainstorming technologies to solve complex and urgent problems. We are stubborn in following our “special path”.
  22. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 41
    -4
    Fragment No. 6
    The value of any invention, book, philosophical idea is not determined by the fact of its occurrence. The idea is appreciated by the cultural environment in which it appeared. Only this determines his future fate and value. A manuscript left in a desk or an unrealized patent is only suitable for kindling a stove in difficult times.
    Indeed, a cultural society (great culture) accurately selects the best, thereby improving the living conditions of the people who created such a cultural environment.
    And immediately the question arises: can a great culture be called within the framework of which genetics and cybernetics were persecuted (the latter was generally called the “corrupt girl of imperialism”), and the best scientists were forced to leave? Or is it in this cannibalism that our special path and special mentality consists? But is a chronic technological lag a sign of greatness, along with attempts to implement cannibalistic theories of social development? Of course not. Because there is no special culture of the “Russian world” torn off about the global one, and never has been. As there are no special ways peculiar only to us, the development of society. There are only not too attractive indigenous customs. And the practice of exterminating the “too smart”.
    From a collision with reality, a typical representative of the "Russian world" climbs the wall. He is angry and indignant. But his arguments are at the level of areal cry and newspaper chatter. With him, as true believers, dialogue or argument is impossible. For example, he cannot explain why our specialists are integrating so painfully into the world labor market. A typical example of juggling: "They do not recognize our diplomas." Yes, not in diplomas, my dear, the matter. The same Gates did not graduate. And in the majority of published vacancies, a condition is listed that perfectly replaces a diploma. This is the so-called “relevant experience”, the corresponding work experience. The specialist must own the subject, have experience and recommendations, speak the language of the country where he intends to work, while owning knowledge of work standards and terminology. Most often, this is not. Fairy tales about discrimination begin. In fact, specific representatives of our great culture most often stupidly do not meet the standard requirements of potential employers.
    In the same way as our whole culture, which is distinguished by its vile habit of claiming wishful thinking, does not correspond to claims to greatness. The question is simple. Either we are part of world culture, or a wild tribe, albeit with a great past, but completely divorced from civilization. With all the ensuing consequences in the form of lawlessness, poverty and disease.
    Illusions of great self-worth lead to degradation. Many peoples have experienced the validity of this thesis in their own skin. The most characteristic example is the once-closed societies of China and Japan, which could not oppose anything to the challenges of the open world at a time when it became vital.
    With the poetry characteristic of Eastern peoples, the Chinese subsequently formulated two theses I liked:
    1. "The truth hidden in the palace is useless to the people at the time of trial."
    2. "A hare who imagines himself to be a tiger will be torn to pieces."
    Now these are the industrialized countries that have outstripped us in development, who have drawn the right conclusions from the lessons he taught them in life. Why are we so eager to repeat the mistakes of others?
    The world is arranged so that our choice comes down to 2 options:
    1. We are going along with world civilization, gradually becoming its integral and important part.
    2. They drag us by the collar or by the legs, not paying attention to the bloody snot. Like savages or dangerous madmen.
    Our contemporary storytellers, instilling in society unjustified illusions about our imaginary greatness, simply lie. Most often, in favor of small local satraps. And also, that people slept sweeter and had no thoughts that someone was teaching him wrong. Everything is right with us, "sleep well, the people of Baghdad."
    I do not accept and do not understand right through the artificial concept of confrontation with the West. This is just a burp of the ancient as the world of the instinct of ethological isolation. It has long and many times been proved that Civilization easily accepts in itself all who, by deed, prove the right to be considered a part of it. No one crosses out or tries to challenge the achievements of the best representatives of the Russian world or to belittle the value of their work. It's just that the comparison scale is slightly wider and meeting the criteria of greatness is more difficult. And that, somewhere in Siam, too, there are probably great Siamese scientists. But here we do not know them. Because they are somehow lost if the comparison is on the scale of the Earth.
  23. AAK
    AAK 26 August 2019 11: 42
    -4
    Fragment No. 7
    When evaluating the contribution to world culture, the West is extremely, absolutely honest. It is also true that Civilization does not wait for the laggards. And we must constantly prove our right to be a part of it. Past merits are not a reason to lie down and look at everyone with a feeling of deep satisfaction.
    Civilization Means Running. Being in the forefront is a continuous and painful process. I hope we understand this. And we have enough strength. Otherwise - eternal vegetation, a halt in development and death.
    Once again, we need to return to what the USSR refused, destroying the great Russian culture - to the realization of our place in the world and the rejection of claims to exclusiveness, including national one. A hieroglyphic typewriter with thousands of characters on cylindrical reels is funny and uncomfortable. Bast shoes flow and wear out quickly.
    But a return to a civilized way of life and thinking presupposes rather tough measures. Namely:
    1. The total cleaning of all educational and cultural institutions from incompetent and corrupt personnel.
    2. A ban on the profession for current teachers of philosophical, economic, historical and social disciplines, as well as persons suspected of corruption (and these are all current leaders of the learning process).
    3. The introduction of compulsory teaching in the language of international communication of specialists - English.
    4. Mandatory certification of teachers by international institutions.
    5. Bringing training programs in line with programs adopted at leading universities in the world.
    Only when these conditions are met, we have a chance for the revival and stable reproduction of a culture understood as part of the global.
    In the conditions of the modern post-Soviet space, the listed measures cannot be resolved without a radical breakdown of the management system. Therefore, post-Soviet, essentially feudal state formations should be dismantled as soon as possible for the benefit of the people inhabiting the territory of the former USSR.
    Right now we are seeing the beginning of this process. By and large, all of us have already been scrapped. And they will act accordingly.

    Your opinion is interesting, colleagues, with respect, AAK
    1. depressant
      depressant 26 August 2019 16: 25
      +2
      I read everything! Laughing for a long time.
      Who is the author of this specimen of defamation, this mishmash of grains of truth floating in streams of lies?
      This is how the liberals fool us, colleagues. And what is most surprising, the speeches are not new to me. I heard them in deep Soviet times. And no one stopped the comrades, although they spoke loudly. Just not an anecdote about the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee. Then I would also attach importance, anxiously ask: "What, in fact, is happening?" And there was a betrayal of the country.
      And now these huge texts ...
      And there is no way to just say: "Guys, we will steal as we stole, and even more, and you, serfs, bear with it! We fought for that! But no, so die, we won't cry. Otherwise, there is civilization. ! "
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit 26 August 2019 17: 19
        +5
        It's funny that all these rants about freedom end with words - a ban, total sweeping, compulsory English. Well, at least the reservation is not sent. Till. She is such a democracy!
    2. cradle
      cradle 27 August 2019 06: 51
      +3
      judging by the amount of writing you have before .... a lot of free time or paid troll. Yes, there are thoughts and not bad ones. But in general, it is based on the rejection of the Soviet experience of the country's development. True, criticizing you for some reason forgot about the breakthrough that society made under the USSR. Contrary to all your calculations. Why? Can the conclusions be crafty, like a crafty person making them? Huh?
  24. kalibr
    kalibr 26 August 2019 11: 50
    +1
    Quote: Andrey VOV
    Honestly, in the title and first paragraphs, Samsonov thought the author of the material

    This is how a person has a strong impact on society ...
  25. kalibr
    kalibr 26 August 2019 11: 52
    -3
    Quote: AAK
    Therefore, post-Soviet, essentially feudal state formations should be dismantled as soon as possible for the benefit of the people inhabiting the territory of the former USSR.

    That's it!
    1. depressant
      depressant 26 August 2019 18: 24
      +5
      Vyacheslav Olegovich!
      So everything seems to be dismantled. Or do you see something not monotonous? So tell me what it is. And if you mean us, "sovoks", then we are no longer young and do not exert any influence on domestic politics. The world, you know, always belongs to the young. You are not so bloodthirsty to demand the complete destruction of us - we ourselves will leave. But if there is a "cleaning of the ranks", they will clean you up and, I dare to assume, first of all, no matter how you shout "Stop the thief!"
    2. cradle
      cradle 27 August 2019 06: 37
      +1
      What exactly? That is, the parliament booth for you is a role model? When are decisions taken over the years or clueless?
  26. samarin1969
    samarin1969 26 August 2019 16: 10
    +2
    It is difficult to understand why the author started with Danilevsky. "Russia and Europe" is a tedious book in places, but absolutely correct. The life of Europe and Russia cannot be measured only by statistics. Each ethnic group has its own life. France at the beginning of the century had a better industry than Russia. But its bureaucracy, poverty and powerlessness of the population, the shortcomings of the army, the limited culture were at the level of the Russian Empire.
    The coming to power of the Bolsheviks was the result of personal mistakes of the administration of Nicholas II in foreign policy. The price of this "modernization" turned out to be simply monstrous. The USSR frightened the world with its might, but did not become an alternative to natural development. Apart from the Asian states, no one wanted to "tear their roots". Yes, and China is now reaching for traditional Confucianism.
  27. kalibr
    kalibr 26 August 2019 20: 59
    -3
    Quote: depressant
    You are not so bloodthirsty to demand the complete destruction of us - we will leave ourselves. But if there is a "cleaning of the ranks", they will clean you up and, I dare to assume, first of all, no matter how you shout "Stop the thief!"

    I do not demand to destroy anyone. This is a natural process no one two centuries stock. And the fact that the world belongs to the young I know no worse than you, if not better, by virtue of the profession.
    1. depressant
      depressant 26 August 2019 23: 06
      +5
      Well, don’t get dark, tell me that you need to break it. Or whom. For example, I see a lot of broken people around me. And not at all elderly. Soviet generations are just strong. I see broken people among 35 - 45 year olds. At one time, very decent parents, the military and industrial intelligentsia, due to well-known circumstances, could not give children an education. The lives of many of this generation are tragic. But you don’t see them, you see bright ones. And I see these, because they are in the neighborhood, and can be heard at night, as the windows overlook the playground. And if there were! The genes are good there, the circumstances were bad. Not every person is a born leader, not everyone is capable of spinning upward, but many are able to gradually slide into the scum. And only by way of exception will the especially cynical and resilient degenerate into oligarchs or successful officials. And if the era contributes to this, the price is worthless.
      And if it also drags on indefinitely, crushing more and more new generations underneath, then minus it. So what else needs to be broken in order to stop the evil infinity of breaking human destinies?
  28. Wildcat
    Wildcat 27 August 2019 02: 25
    +2
    It is good when a person asks the questions "who we are, what we want, what is happening to us and why." It is bad when the answers are hidden from quotes and figures, from which nothing follows, because the answer to all questions is "we are special, there are objective reasons for this." For the question, of course, plus, the answers ... so soon you can get to Prokhanov ...
  29. cradle
    cradle 27 August 2019 06: 34
    0
    A totalitarian society aimed at achieving world domination has never set itself the goal of educating thinking people. The USSR was essentially its own, a combat vehicle, originally intended for the forcible dissemination of communist ideology.
    It was in your ideas a "totalitarian" society. Your views are your views. Well, already from false beliefs, false conclusions come with interspersed truth for plausibility.
    1. depressant
      depressant 27 August 2019 09: 07
      +2
      For example, Vyacheslav Olegovich Shpakovsky does not want to answer me. And, imagine, this is the essence of our Russian civilization. We are ready to die for the Motherland, but not ready for a long time - for the truth, for the truth, for beliefs. Since Khrushchev’s times, decent, decent people have not been ready to take on imperious responsibility, rightly believing that power is always a deception of someone and even large groups of people, but we cannot, right? It is easier for us to despise power, proud that we are not in it, but we are afraid of being responsible for fire like anything. Therefore, more and more dishonorable came into power from generation to generation, the selection of devilry took place, and now we have what we have, namely, the holiday of demons, raising vices to virtue. And they are trying to convince us in all seriousness that this is good. The dream of will and reason gave rise to monsters.
      In the days of Stalin, decent people feared being shot for a mistake, but scoundrels did not, and therefore later broke through to power. We were afraid of losing a career, and we lost genetics and cybernetics. At least cybernetics - for sure (read today's news on VO). In the future, we were afraid to lose the little that we have, and lost the country. Why, not being afraid to die for Russia, are we afraid of responsibility for it?
      Because we are a lowland people. We are defenseless on all sides. The price of an imperious mistake is extremely high. Therefore, without taking responsibility, we stand aside and watch how scoundrels make our story.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 27 August 2019 11: 15
        +2
        The tablet works so that I get to the end of the comments. At first! Good afternoon, respect love Lyudmila! I always welcome your comments when I see, but, ......
        Not owning the entire amount of the information you provided, I can say that I recalled the words of Lenin ----- THERE IS SUCH PARTY! That is, it was the Bolsheviks who were able to take responsibility for the country. And they took it. At that time, as not a single today's party can do this, can’t do it ... And it doesn’t do ----- we all see it .... And here I’ll write what I disagree with you --- pronoun WE. How do you use it ...... I hear that you are exactly ready to take such a responsibility, along with other people ...... However, this is wrong. ... This burden is unbearable for you, for the general population .... It is the party with the corresponding program that should be. At first.
        laughing Schasss in PM I will write to you. hi
        1. depressant
          depressant 27 August 2019 12: 44
          +2
          Oh dear colleague ...
          Don't take me seriously. I am a cynic, a skeptic, and a misanthrope to boot, whom nature has mockingly endowed with a conscience. And now it hurts - because I dared to demand some answers from Vyacheslav Olegovich Shpakovsky, knowing full well that there are irresistible circumstances, because I myself am in them. So, maybe the saying "Russian people are strong in hindsight" is the definition of the essence of Russian civilization? And political parties ... How far from me it is!
          1. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 27 August 2019 12: 55
            0
            You contradict yourself laughing , dear Lyudmila! No one’s conscience should be sick, suffer because of this. Something got mixed up somewhere, and you didn’t demand it, but assumed in accordance with your upbringing. That's all. love Not soon I’ll write.
            Quote: depressant
            Oh dear colleague ...
            Don't take me seriously. I am a cynic, a skeptic, and a misanthrope to boot, whom nature has mockingly endowed with a conscience. And now it hurts - because I dared to demand some answers from Vyacheslav Olegovich Shpakovsky, knowing full well that there are irresistible circumstances, because I myself am in them. So, maybe the saying "Russian people are strong in hindsight" is the definition of the essence of Russian civilization? And political parties ... How far from me it is!
      2. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 27 August 2019 12: 46
        +1
        I decided to write more, both here and in PM.
        When the Second World War began, many remembered life under the tsar and there was a party that took responsibility for the better life of people and the country as a whole. Then people, along with the party, accepted such responsibility. They defeated the Nazis. Restored the country.
  30. Doliva63
    Doliva63 27 August 2019 18: 28
    -1
    Quote: Edward Vashchenko
    The USSR is a historical continuation of the Republic of Ingushetia, and civilization, it seems, began to take shape from the end of the 15th century.

    The USSR had nothing in common with RI, except for part of the territory, and was not a continuation of RI - the USSR interrupted the history of RI once and, I hope, forever.
  31. Doliva63
    Doliva63 27 August 2019 18: 33
    -1
    Quote: Boris55
    Quote: Doliva63
    Did they take a lot from the USSR?

    Everything! The USSR is no more.

    Do not confuse soft with warm. The USSR itself dissolved under Brezhnev. And the fact that he "no longer exists" is not at all the merit of the capitalists. And what was finished off in the 90s, it was already a different country. Including with private property. This is no longer the USSR.
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 28 August 2019 02: 41
      0
      Catalysts, deformation, convection ---- these processes are described in physics textbooks for better and faster dissolution. Nothing itself dissolves, much less the USSR.
  32. DWG1905
    DWG1905 27 August 2019 19: 27
    +2
    Interestingly, I mostly agree with the author, especially on the land issue. But it is probably more correct to call the civilization of the North, which now consists of Western and Eurasian with blurred borders. On which, in fact, a collision occurs. But it is global. Specifically, our mentality is determined by the heritage of the Horde (the fact that we can more or less historically describe other nomadic peoples, we can’t remember the Mongols), in which we took a dominant position (the White Tsar is still the main one in Eurasia). If on a large scale, then this is the principle of centralization of power with all the advantages and disadvantages. The mentality is therefore determined by the physical and geographical conditions of the locality in which the people live. I like the humanities, in that all changes in the life of society are considered without taking into account the living conditions in this territory and their changes. As an example, a drought in the Middle East, peasants trampled into the cities, and there the place was taken, and even another faith. If to us, before the troubled times, according to some reports, there was a sharp cooling, in August we went on a sleigh ride. As for the great Western democracy, let’s see when the Gulf Stream leaves for Canada, Trump remembered not just about Greenland. Let’s say, brothers Ukrainians cannot gather together in a heap, it’s kind of like us, but they can’t. They did not enter the Horde, they were infected by the Poles, each Pan himself, and the living conditions are favorable, you can live in your farm (sit out). A short-term presence in the Republic of Ingushetia did not correct the brain, but correct the Belarusians? Naturally, the process of history is continuous, Soviet civilization is an integral part of Russian, the crisis (or revolution as you like) is continuous and it probably began in the mid-19th century and continues today. In the revolutionary period of 1917 and around 1937, one must also consider the biological factor, when the old elite (actually degenerate) was physically exterminated and there was a replacement for a new one. This is of course bloodthirsty, but in fact it is. The penultimate time was done by Ivan the Terrible, on a smaller scale, of course, and Peter I substantially refreshed the elite by nominees from the lower classes and foreigners. In other civilizations, the same thing happens periodically. In general, I recommend reading Arabs' stories about Rus, like white ones, and the customs of nomads, about the culture of equestrians in the Baltic states (why in the forest there is cavalry), is suggestive. It is necessary to try to build history on the prevailing living conditions in a given period, and the ideology and structure of society and production relations are also adjusted to this. They will not give us peace of mind, there are more and more people on the planet, and fewer resources, so we are not expecting liberal democracy. And KM was right, the main question, where did they divide the surplus value?
    1. Reptiloid
      Reptiloid 28 August 2019 02: 30
      0
      About the crisis that began in the 19th century. The crisis, probably, did not start in the middle of the 19th century, but, so to speak, announced itself loudly. The abolition of serfdom did not solve the problem.
      I also agree with the Author and am satisfied that I saw this article. It would be interesting to read the previous articles in the series, and I will try to do it. Thank .
  33. Nadir shah
    Nadir shah 29 August 2019 00: 38
    0
    Considering that all Slavs are Indo-Europeans, all these artificial disputes about civilization are needed only by politicians who, as Themistocles used to say in classics, interfere with wine and water so that the truth does not hit people in the head. Fortunately, in addition to the Basques and Hungarians, all of them are here (and if we count the Estonians and the Finns geographically, then they are superfluous).
  34. Oleg_p
    Oleg_p 30 August 2019 11: 14
    0
    In general, the question is not so. What is the challenge of those who have caught up?
    Catching up in development means ORDERED, or even several orders of magnitude, REDUCE DEVELOPMENT COSTS!
    In the military field including!
    While Russia is "catching up", the military budget can be 10 times less.
    Now, if you try to get ahead, the situation will change. That's what you need to write about.
  35. Roster
    Roster 19 October 2020 07: 48
    0
    Good day Edward! I read your publication about the Russian civilization with great interest. I read your dispute with Alexey (Alex_59) with equal interest. I think his opinion, like you, is erroneous and, most importantly, superficially, having taken several outwardly similar traits of the character of Russians and Westerners, put an equal sign. In addition, your opinion is confirmed by such two respected people, Gennady Aleksandrov, a historian, publicist, Lebedev, a blogger, analyzes this topic in great detail in LiveJournal (LJ).