Named the huge cost of Rafale fighters for the Indian Air Force

French manufacturers have offered India an option in which the acquired Rafale fighters can cost the Indian treasury cheaper.

The initial contract provides for the sale of 36 French fighters for the Indian Air Force. The total value of this purchase for India will be 7,87 billion euros. Thus, the exact price of the Rafale fighter with weapons and services for India became known. It amounts to 218,6 million euros! For comparison: Russian Su-35 are exported to China (with weapons and service technologies) at a price not exceeding 75 million euros.

This kind of information excited the Indian public and representatives of opposition political forces. They accused the incumbent authorities of having a corruption component in concluding the contract, noting that spending “218 million euros on a 4 generation fighter is“ no way ”...

218 million euros for Rafale - a huge amount that is difficult to justify the inclusion of the cost of service and weapons.

Now, the Indian authorities are turning to the French with the question of why in the end the cost is so high and whether it can be "somehow reduced." The French manufacturer noted that "it is all about a limited batch of order." Why they didn’t ask from the beginning is a separate topic.

The Eurasian Times cites an excerpt from the French answer:

If New Delhi will expand the transaction and purchase more than three dozen more Rafale fighters, the contract will become more profitable for India.

So, it is proposed to purchase another 30-36 aircraft, resulting in a total “savings” of about 1,9 billion euros.

From the material:

If all goes well, Dassault can speed up production and release one aircraft each month for the next six years.

Next week, the Indian prime minister is expected to renegotiate the terms of the contract for the acquisition of military aircraft with French President Emmanuel Macron.

Comments

[Thrifty]

The Indus cunning of them goes backwards, sorry for the columbur! !! They themselves lit up for money, even the F35 aircraft range costs a lot cheaper! !! Although he is not worth the money that they pay for him! !! Revalued 20 percent for sure! !!

[sir.jonn]

Quote: Thrifty

Revalued 20 percent for sure

Which 20? its price tag should be divided into two and at this price free maintenance for the entire period of operation.

[Cry]

Such a deal scheme indicates a high probability of a rollback.

[IL-18]

Quote: sir.jonn

divide by two and at this price is free

I have some kind of deja vu! I follow the epic and LFI for India, as in 1986 for the series about Commissioner Katani! If you missed something while walking with the girl, then infa will come anyway anyway. With such selection and procurement processes, I have been watching this series since 2007, you can slowly finish the MiG-35, manage to put it in several countries, and already conclude a contract with India for its supply of 150 pieces.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: IL-18

Quote: sir.jonn

divide by two and at this price is free

I have some kind of deja vu! I follow the epic and LFI for India, as in 1986 for the series about Commissioner Katani! If you missed something while walking with the girl, then infa will come anyway anyway. With such selection and procurement processes, I have been watching this series since 2007, you can slowly finish the MiG-35, manage to put it in several countries, and already conclude a contract with India for its supply of 150 pieces.

I agree! True, "Bollywood" is not Italian cinema, in it, in addition to dancing, the plot can still arrange the wrong holiday of the absurd .

[IL-18]

Quote: sir.jonn

feast of the absurd

"I am your father!" Is it the Indians at Dartweider, or the last one at the first ones?

[sir.jonn]

Quote: IL-18

Quote: sir.jonn

feast of the absurd

"I am your father!" Is it the Indians at Dartweider, or the last one at the first ones?

If Dartweider began to prove it on a birthmark on the fifth point Does the devil know him?

[Mixanchik]

Quote: Thrifty

The Indus cunning of them goes backwards, sorry for the columbur! !! They themselves lit up for money, even the F35 aircraft range costs a lot cheaper!

The funny thing is that Pakistani F-16s are being shot down on old Soviet MiGs ..))))
So understand them "rich" ..

[TermNachTer]

The French use illegal methods against the Indians. So impudently "twisting hands" - this already does not fit into any gate, even into the Kremlin. Although, I agree, the Indians themselves are to blame - they wanted cheaper, got more expensive and it is not a fact that it is better. Interestingly, the Chinese and Pakistanis will wait six for France to complete the missing 30 to 36 airplanes.

[Svarog]

Hindus sawing, do not go to a fortuneteller ..

[Sky strike fighter]

So we can also offer us a "competitive" price for their MiG-35, you look the Indians will buy. The MiG-35 is the same Rafale in terms of its performance characteristics. The same medium fighter, complete with AFAR (at the request of the customer, of course). Because the Indians need kickbacks.

[Svarog]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

So maybe we can also offer a "competitive" price for their MiG-35, you see Indians

The Indians are always advocating that production be organized on their territory .. So they need to give it, only under the control of our specialists and, naturally, in the "export" package and secured in the contract, while 95% of all aircraft should be our.

[lucul]

The Hindus advocate all the time for the production to be organized on their territory ..

And where is it said that Rafal will be produced in India?
Learn to do business with France - and sold the planes at a price and there is no production in India.
And the Indians are demanding from the Russians the sale of aircraft and technology for a penny, and even production must be organized in India.
Something India reminds me of a woman - one came and put her in a pose (France) for free, and the other (Russia) rolls everything up, gives and presents, and she doesn’t even let him close to her.

[Svarog]

Quote: lucul

Learn to do business with France

After the Mistral, I wouldn’t conduct business with France at all and would not advise others ..

and sold the aircraft at a third price and there is no production in India.

They are fine fellows of course, but we don’t know how much of France has remained from the sale of three-pronged .. Three-pricedly bought only for a rollback ..

Quote: lucul

And the Indians are demanding from the Russians the sale of aircraft and technology for a penny, and even production must be organized in India.

We also demand this from car manufacturers .. whoever doesn’t do it is not for sale with us .. India is a very important market and not only from a commercial point of view, but they pay with real money, unlike some .. In general, nothing I see a bad production in India, provided that a tough contract is signed with the Indians, where the needs will be spelled out in detail for years to come .. and even better, the percentage of Russian aircraft in the Indian army. And just as important, only export options would be collected ..

[Piramidon]

Quote: lucul

and she doesn’t even let him close to herself.

What in general? Yes, they have half of the Soviet-Russian military equipment

[nks]

Quote: lucul

there is no production in India

There is
https://www.reuters.com/article/dassault-india/dassault-says-it-picked-reliance-of-its-own-will-for-india-jet-contract-idUSL4N1WR3L6

The joint venture, Dassault Reliance Aerospace Ltd (DRAL), was created in February last year and the foundation stone for the plant was laid in October in the western state of Maharashtra

[Vladimir Nizhegorodsky]

Your exact definition.
Straight to the point.
Nothing needs to be given to them. No production facilities in India.
Under the USSR and after they gave some sense either ?????
Only rembase in India.
Not more.
And then they shoot down enemies on our planes, and with us the whole East market is played.
And we will show them to you.

[AAK]

"The more a woman we are less, the less she is to us ..."

[peter rusin_2]

SU-30s produced in Russia cost Indians 41,2 million, US dollars, and those produced by Indians cost 72 million! Such is the arithmetic)))

[Altai72]

And this is because our hard workers are paid (figuratively speaking) 100 rubles, and they are 300 rubles to them (both Indians and French and all everywhere).

[TermNachTer]

Something the French are in no hurry to transfer production to India, and with the transfer of technology, somehow it did not work out well. They conveyed the fact that the Indians and tries are not needed, and they will not be able to use it anywhere. In general, as in that folk wisdom — the avaricious pays twice — thrice, and the sucker — through life.

[Runoway]

MiG-35 it's like a BMW X8 assembly began only in May last year, unbroken equipment from the word completely

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Mig-35 is the same Rafal in its performance characteristics

then you do not know the characteristics of Rafal and the MiG-35

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The same medium fighter equipped with AFAR

that's just AFAR on the MiG-35 is not. It may be on it someday, but now it simply is not there.

"We understand that this is a global trend for the use of radar with an active phased antenna on this type of aircraft. Naturally, we already have a prototype for testing," said Tarasenko (note - General Director of RSK MiG).
According to him, the corporation will offer as an option the use of such a radar after its development together with the plane
At the first stage, Zhuk-M radars were installed on the fighter, which were also installed on MiG-29SMT fighters

The MiG-35 is a lightweight fighter, albeit with two engines.

[Sky strike fighter]

Mig-35 is an analogue of Rafal. Link to infographics comparing Mig-35 and Rafal.
https://rg.ru/2015/02/17/istrebiteli.html
AFAR on Mig-35 is installed at the request of the customer.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

AFAR on Mig-35 is installed at the request of the customer

AFAR will be installed on the plane after it is brought. So far, there is only a pre-production radar sample with AFAR for the MiG-35. Those. now there is no radar. There is a Beetle-M with SCAR, it is with such a radar that the aircraft is offered for an Indian tender.

The amateur is not in the know again
Go look at the pictures and read the murzilka.

[Sky strike fighter]

The amateur is not in the know again

Self-critical. But it’s true if you say that the similar medium fighters Mig-35 and Rafal are not, in your opinion, classmates.

Go look at the pictures and read the murzilka.

I have grown out of this a long time and I wish you to quickly put it on a new level of cognition, without a murzer with pictures.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

MiG-35 and Rafal fighters, in your opinion, are not classmates.

where did i say that? Quote - to the studio. You know. What is the name of a person who, to put it mildly, lies?

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Go look at the pictures and read the murzilka.

I grew out of this long ago

and this is said by those who have posts - completely thoughtless copy-paste and reference to pictures))

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Link to infographics comparing Mig-35 and Rafal.
https://rg.ru/2015/02/17/istrebiteli.html

[Sky strike fighter]

where did i say that? Quote - to the studio. You know. What is the name of a person who, to put it mildly, lies?

In the studio, so in the studio.

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Mig-35 is the same Rafal in its performance characteristics

then you do not know the characteristics of Rafal and the MiG-35

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The same medium fighter equipped with AFAR

that's just AFAR on the MiG-35 is not. It may be on it someday, but now it simply is not there.

"We understand that this is a global trend for the use of radar with an active phased antenna on this type of aircraft. Naturally, we already have a prototype for testing," said Tarasenko (note - General Director of RSK MiG).
According to him, the corporation will offer as an option the use of such a radar after its development together with the plane
At the first stage, Zhuk-M radars were installed on the fighter, which were also installed on MiG-29SMT fighters

The MiG-35 is a lightweight fighter, albeit with two engines.

who has posts - completely thoughtless copy-paste and reference to pictures))

So if I don’t give you quotes and send to infographics, you are the first to require a link to information for confirmation.

[Grigory_45]

and what did you prove with your comment? Where is it said that Rafal and MiG are not cars of the same class? The quote is never a hello. Which means there is a liar (to say the least)
Class one, but the characteristics of the machines are different. Comes now? Or did the thinker never turn on?

Not in favor of MiG the following:
1. it has a larger EPR than Rafal
2. The maneuverability characteristics are similar, but they are not paramount to the Indians.
3. They are more important than multifunctionality. Rafal is probably the best flying multifunctional vehicle of its class, although very expensive for a light fighter.
4. It is serial, unlike the MiG-35
5. Has a more advanced avionics (both AFAR and hanging containers)
6. The plane itself is expensive, but maintenance is fairly straightforward. Considering the handshake of the Indian technical staff, this is also a plus for the "Frenchman".

Not everything is measured by paper TTRX, which can be read in Murzilka, right?

[Sky strike fighter]

Not everything is measured by paper TTRX, which can be read in Murzilka, right?

You know better. I don’t read Murzilka. You mention it almost in every post. Are you impressed by this publication or what’s the matter?

It is serial, unlike the MiG-35

The Mig-35 is small-series. This year, 6 Mig-35s will be released, 2 of which are already in the army.

Class one, but the characteristics of the machines are different. Comes now?

Rafal medium fighter you will not deny it?

The MiG-35 is a lightweight fighter, albeit with two engines.

Here you say that the Mig-35 is a light fighter despite the fact that you claim that the class of the cars is the same, that is, they are classmates. But Rafal is a medium fighter and not light. Confused about the testimony. You see, no one so beloved Murzilka did not help you. Where is the logic?

Not in favor of MiG the following:
1. it has a larger EPR than Rafal

Has a more advanced avionics (both AFAR and hanging containers)

Evidence in the studio. According to your two quotes above.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Rafal medium fighter you will not deny it?

Rafale - lightweight multi-purpose (multi-functional) fighter

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

But Rafal is a medium fighter, not a light one.

read above, and understand who gets confused (or rather - floats)

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Mig-35 small-series. 6 Mig-35 will be released this year

Now compare: Rafal has been produced since 2010, it has been replicated in a number of 175 copies.

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Evidence in the studio

those. will you deny that there is no AFAR on Rafal, but on the MiG? Or maybe they created a hanging sighting container for the MiG, for effective work on the ground? not? so don’t carry the blizzard.

The demagogue is you, sir. Terry and. Instead of arguing in vain, enlighten.

Or, to conduct demagogic conversations = - is the essence of your presence at VO?

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter
Rafal medium fighter you will not deny it?

Rafale - lightweight multi-purpose (multi-functional) fighter

Quote: Sky Strike fighter
But Rafal is a medium fighter, not a light one.

read above, and understand who gets confused (or rather - floats) wassat

Link for comparing TTX Mig-35 and Rafal with other fighters. Mig-35 and Rafal are middle class fighters. Enlighten.
http://i.imgur.com/H3KKHFq.png

Quote: Sky Strike fighter
Evidence in the studio

those. will you deny that there is no AFAR on Rafal, but on the MiG? Or maybe they created a hanging sighting container for the MiG, for effective work on the ground? not? so don’t carry the blizzard.

That is, you have no evidence. Well, and which of us after this demagogue?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Well, which of us after this demagogue?

one who thoughtlessly copy-paste. It was on the basis of this, and not real knowledge, that someone recently proved to me that Russian (Soviet) missiles fly by spitting on the laws of physics, and the MiG-31 can easily go into outer space. Wasn't that you?

For this, I think the conversation is over, because you really need only a conversation with the seasoning of demagogy and casuistry. For more, alas, you are not capable

[TermNachTer]

I read your discussion, I decided to insert from myself. For the money that you can buy a Rafal, you can buy three MiG - 35s. If two Rafals and six MiG - 35s meet in the sky, who will be the winner?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: TermNachTER

I read your discussion, I decided to insert from myself. For the money that you can buy a Rafale, you can buy three MiG - 3

in my opinion, I wrote that Rafal is an expensive car for its class. Not? Instead, you can buy the latest version F-15. Or the Su-35 with chic options.

There is only trouble with the price tag - two MiGs for one Rafal. And that depends on the contract and its conditions and options.
Russian planes have always been cheaper. For many reasons.

[TermNachTer]

Judging by what is written in the article, not two MiGs can be bought, but three. Not to mention the fact that in Russia the armament and spare parts are usually included in the delivery set, while the geyropeytsy and mattresses only have a naked airplane.

[Grigory_45]

What is included in the supply, and what is not included, is prescribed in each specific contract. There can be a lot of options. There may be various contract clauses, such as return deliveries. Do you have the text of a contract for the supply of Rafalees on hand? Not? Then there’s nothing to talk about.

Rafal costs from 85 million. MiGs were not exhibited for less than 45. And that, I think, is cheap, because the Su-35s go at 75-85 million.

[TermNachTer]

It is written above that 36 billion, that is, 7,5 million euros, not dollars, will be paid for 220 airplanes.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: TermNachTER

It is written above that 36 mlr will be paid for 7,5 airplanes

uh, how simple) I repeat: you read the contract? If not, then the top of stupidity is to argue how much the plane itself costs

An example for the gifted: On May 4, 2015, Qatar signed a contract to acquire 24 Dassault Rafale fighters. The total contract value was EUR 6,3 billion. But, in addition to the aircraft themselves, it included: training of personnel and pilots, technical and service support, as well as the supply of weapons (very expensive, note): medium-range air-to-air missiles MICA IR and MICA EM and long-range Meteor, cruise long-range missiles SCALP-EG and guided bombs GBU and AASM

[TermNachTer]

It’s not a question, let’s see what the French will give to the Indians, then we’ll see.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

middle class fighters

there are no such. There are heavy and light fighters.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

middle class fighters

there are no such. There are heavy and light fighters.

Masterpiece. Here is your real "knowledge". And what class do you think Typhoon, Rafal, Tornado belong to? In Europe, there was a concept of medium fighters: in the USA there was a heavy F-15 and a light F-16, in the USSR there was a heavy Su-27 and a medium, not a light MiG-29.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Masterpiece

I’m laughing with you))
Well, tell us what a "medium fighter" is, finish off yourself))

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Gregory_45

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

Masterpiece

I’m laughing with you))
Well, tell us what a "medium fighter" is, finish off yourself))

I say, in order to prove something to you, you need to quote, otherwise your self-confident "competence" will not be exposed and you will consider that you are right.

Leading military developers of different countries almost simultaneously, in the 1980 ... 90s of the last century, came to the conclusion that it was necessary to create a medium multi-role fighter. So in Europe, the Eurofighter Typhoon project appeared, in the USSR, work began on the future MiG-35.

https://warbook.club/voennaya-tehnika/samolety/dassault-rafale/

So what do you have - and f-16 with gripen "average"?))

F-16 and grippen light fighters.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

I'm telling you

you don’t speak, but cowardly leave the answer. So what is an average fighter?

[Sky strike fighter]

So what is an average fighter?

This is a fighter class that is heavier than 12 tons, but lighter than 16 tons. The definition is purely formal, many people consider these machines to be heavy, but in reality they are average.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

This is a fighter class that is heavier than 12 tons, but lighter than 16 tons

F-16 has a max. takeoff weight of about 20 tons. This class to which it belongs?

I’ll tell you in secret - they consider him a light fighter))

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The definition is purely formal.

it’s not even formal, but invented by you.

By the way, empty Rafal weighs about 10 tons, empty F-16 - about 9 tons. What a great difference ..)))

[Sky strike fighter]

It is considered the mass of empty planes as in the table. But the combat load and the minimum required mass of fuel are also added. This is not taken into account in the table below. So I do not refuse my words.

LTX MiG-35, F-16 and Dassault Rafale

Length: 17,30 m - 15,03 m - 15,27 m

Wing span: 12,0 m - 10,0 m - 10,8 m

Wing Area: 38,0 sq.m. - 27,9 sq.m. - 45,7 sq.m.

Empty weight: 11000 kg - 10000 kg - 9500 kg

Maximum take-off weight: 23500 kg - 21800 kg - 24500 kg

Fuel mass: 4800 kg - 3300 kg - 4700 kg

Combat load: 6500 kg - 7800 kg - 9500 kg

Number of suspension units: 10 - 11 - 14

Engine thrust: 2 × 53 kN - 1 × 84 kN - 2 × 50 kN

Afterburner thrust: 2 × 88 kN - 1 × 144 kN - 2 × 75 kN

Maximum speed: 2,25M - 2,0M - 1,8 M

Combat radius: 1000 km - 550 km - 1800 km

Practical ceiling: 17500 m - 18000 m - 17000 m

Rate of climb: 330 m / s - 250 m / s - 305 m / s

Traction vector driven: yes - no - no

Radar with AFAR: yes - yes - yes

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

The mass of empty planes is considered as in the table, but the combat load and the minimum required mass of fuel are also added

your personal calculation method? So he said - they themselves came up with)

[Grigory_45]

In general, I am surprised by the number of dunnoes in VO who minus adequate answers and put pluses for bullshit. I personally do not care about the cons, they are an indicator of the adequacy and level of knowledge of the audience present here. He is below the baseboard. It is sad that in the past it turned out to be quite a good resource in the past. Crazy urry patriots rule

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

So I do not refuse my words.

I did not doubt it. Admitting mistakes is not your hobby

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

This is a fighter class that is heavier than 12 tons, but lighter than 16 tons

he came up with it, he proves with foam at the mouth.
He proved only one thing - that an amateur, an ignoramus and a demagogue

[nks]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

http://i.imgur.com/H3KKHFq.png

Wow !! Take a picture of the sign from the wiki and do not even hesitate to leave the title !! Furiously plus for courage !! So what do you have - and f-16 with gripen "average"?))

[Constructor68]

Not in favor of MiG the following:
1. it has a larger EPR than Rafal

It is interesting on the basis of what methods the MiG EPR determined?

The plane itself is expensive, but its maintenance is quite simple.

I wonder how it is? Are you even familiar with Niao or just google?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SETSET

There is no exact data on the Internet.

without knowing what it is about, gnarling is a sign of a near mind. To understand why Rafal’s ESR is lower, you need to know the design of the aircraft. You do not know her. At Rafale, for example, S-shaped air intakes that shield the input circuit of engine turbines. On the MiG, this is not. Etc. Before you write a revealing comment, take the trouble to become at least a knowledgeable person. And then it’s funny and pale)

Quote: SETSET

Here you deliberately write a lie.

you write it in each comment))

Quote: SETSET

Rafal is inferior to the Mig-35 in terms of maneuverability, since the Mig-35 engines have an all-angle deviation of the thrust vector, while Rafal does not.

Rafal has a lower specific load on the wing and PGO, which ensures its equal maneuverability characteristics with the MiG. I heard a ring, but I didn’t understand where he was - what else to expect from an amateur?

Quote: SETSET

"Zhuk-AE (A)" radar - MiG-35 radar with AFAR

The MiG-35 still does not have AFR. You are lying, and brazenly. AFAR for the MiG is in the future, as the developers themselves write about it, both of the aircraft and the radar. You are a liar.

Quote: SETSET

And you shouldn't even "stutter" about hanging containers - there is no information about this on the Internet

Rafal has them, but MiG doesn't have them. There is information on their development - but they are in development, and not in the series and not in the sun.

Quote: SETSET

That's all your tales

that's it, you have only tales and lies.

[Oyo Sarkazmi]

One of the main conditions of India - 1 engine should be on the plane. So F-16, Raphael, F-35. No options.

[nks]

Tender for single-engine MFIs canceled last year

[Shuttle]

Quote: Svarog

Hindus sawing, do not go to a fortuneteller ..

Do you think the French only sweep sawdust? As they are sawing in Europe and all sorts of states, so far our only dream of this.
Of course, both Hindus and all other capitalists saw. This is the essence of capital - to make less and worse, and get more and better.

[Mooh]

In short, when buying a cactus, cunning Indians deceived themselves, and now they cry, prick, but continue to eat it.

[aszzz888]

Rafale fighter price with armament and service for India. It amounts to 218,6 million euros! For comparison: Russian Su-35 are exported to China (with weapons and service technologies) at a price not exceeding 75 million euros.

Hindus will go crazy! Either they will bargain until the Ganges flows back, or ours.

[hydrox]

Judging by the price, the Indians put such a case in their pocket that now they can’t even lift it.
Now imagine. that the opposition will vote for the resignation of Prime Minister Modi - here the high in the world will rise!

[Nycomed]

What color does Hindu corruption bloom!

[APASUS]

For that kind of money, the Indians could buy the F-35 and there would still be! This is what I understand the arms procurement system, there someone in India signs a contract and even grandchildren will

[Same lech]

218 million euros ... to see here three hundred percent of profits from manufacturers of military equipment ... the French bourgeois is clearly crazy about such profits ... I think kickbacks for Indian officials are included here.

[IL-18]

Quote: The same LYOKHA

this also includes kickbacks for Indian officials.

This is not corruption. It sounds like this scientifically: manitization of a post. All the same, a people with a millennial culture

[rocket757]

And what is there to discuss ...... hedgehogs ate cacti, like that?

[Mountain shooter]

Have you got it halfway? Just like in the 90s! From then the rollback "in half" was commonplace ... And with them - now, but on such a scale! Ay yes Indians ...

[Errr]

If everything goes well Dassault can speed up production schedule and release one plane per month over the next six years.

Well, where are those voices that insist that everything is being done in Russia terribly slowly?)))

[Boa kaa]

It's like in a song about the chieftain: "He exchanged us for a woman, he became a woman in the morning!" And now snot with tears in their physiognomy is rubbing and groaning over the plywood flying over Paris!
Our Su-35 is a 4 ++ generation aircraft. And "Rafaelka" - only 4th!, But the price is 2,9 times higher ... this is probably because the cockpit is "sprayed" with French perfume!
But the cunning people from the Fifth Republic raised the price tag above the roof, although they ordered only 180 cars for themselves. Plus, the Egyptians bought 24. But the Indians fell for 126, at a price of 7,8 billion euros. Obviously, "someone" was saving Dassault Renault from collapse, because Back on December 7, 2011, the then French Ministry of Defense Gerard Longuet announced that the production of Rafale would be phased out (after the company fulfills a paid order for the French Air Force for 180 aircraft), if foreign orders for the fighter do not appear, despite the fact that there is no replacement for "DR" yet.
Well, who after that will say that there is no "corruption component" in this deal?

[voyaka uh]

"Our Su-35 is a machine of the" 4 ++ "generation. And" Rafaelka "is only the 4th" ////
----
On Rafale - AFAR, on the Su-35 it is not.
On Rafale - an aiming container, on the Su-35 it is not.
On Rafale, the central computer, on the Su-35 it is not.
Avionics Rafal is much more advanced than the Su-35.

[lucul]

On Rafale - AFAR

By the way - how are Israeli F-35 pilots there - they don’t complain about cancer, like the Americans?

[voyaka uh]

Prostate cancer is the problem of all combat pilots. Long sitting
motionless with insufficient blood circulation in the groin, plus severe G. overload
The problem is not related to the type of aircraft or country.

[Tersky]

Quote: voyaka uh

On Rafale - AFAR, on the Su-35 it is not.
On Rafale - an aiming container, on the Su-35 it is not.
On Rafale, the central computer, on the Su-35 it is not.
Avionics Rafal is much more advanced than the Su-35.

All this is understandable - "Raphael" was developed and created by the French, the SU-35 by the Russians, only now everything is all over again, but this time about the superiority of the Israeli aircraft over the SU-35, which was developed and created by the Jews. In the same order and in more detail. I'm all in attention ...

[voyaka uh]

Israel is developing and successfully selling a variety of avionics for aircraft of the 4th and 5th generation: AFARs, helmets for pilots, sighting and electronic warfare containers, infrared optics, a variety of OMS.
As well as all types of missiles BB, VZ, SAM.
When relations between Russia and Israel were better, they even sold UAVs to Russia, which are now the main reconnaissance drones in the Russian army.
If Russia does not object, they will put Israeli AFARs and other avionics, which Russia has not yet released, on the Indian Su-30s.

[Tersky]

Quote: voyaka uh

Israel develops and successfully sells a variety of avionics for 4-

You did not understand the question, or included a misunderstanding with a transition to a different topic? Speech about aircraft, about avionics, UAVs, missiles is another topic.

[voyaka uh]

You do not understand this: avionics makes up more than 50% of the cost of a modern combat aircraft. Half a plane, as it were.
Israel is much more profitable to create and sell avionics than a complete assembly aircraft. See how Sweden suffers with its pretty Gripen. England-Germany do not know where to sell Typhoon. Israel has already been in this shoes with Lavi (ahead of the F-16 at that time). Creating is easier than selling.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: voyaka uh

On Rafale - AFAR, on the Su-35 it is not.
On Rafale - an aiming container, on the Su-35 it is not.
On Rafale, the central computer, on the Su-35 it is not.
Avionics Rafal is much more advanced than the Su-35.

Apologetics on the site is not necessary! Tea didn’t come to kindergarten at the matinee ...

Su-35C - A deeply modernized, highly maneuverable multi-functional fighter of the 4 ++ generation. It uses fifth-generation technologies that provide superiority over fighters of a similar class. Distinctive features of the aircraft are a new avionics complex based on a digital information management system integrating onboard equipment systems, a new radar station with a phased antenna array with a long range of detection of air targets with an increased number of simultaneously tracked and fired targets, new engines with increased thrust and a rotary thrust vector

And if the customer does not like the Irbis, then there is no problem to supply the H036 "Belka" with AFAR -

the target detection range with 1 m² EPR is 400 km, the number of simultaneously tracked targets is 62 with the ability to aim at 16 targets in air or 4 on land. The on-board computer uses Elbrus processors. Quantity MRP: 1526 pcs.
Antenna Size: 700 × 900 mm

And why the hanging sighting container, if everything inside the glider is packed, plus the OLS, but what about Rafalik? Maybe there is a helmet-mounted aiming system?
So, - ISRAEL ABOVE ALL - does not dance today! It's already Sunday - the Shabbat is over!

[voyaka uh]

"then there is no problem to put H036" Squirrel "with AFAR" ////
----
1) There is a problem. Therefore, the Squirrel and not put on the Su-35.
2) Su-35 does not have an aiming container. Inside the fuselage, it is mounted on only one aircraft: F-35.
3) OLS is on Rafale too.

[nks]

Well, there are no special problems with the container for export Su-35 - you can import it, just like in Su-30.

[nks]

And the logo in Rafale has also been around for a long time, with everything else. So you can really go to kindergarten with your own fairy tales about the Squirrel.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: nks

to kindergarten with his fairy tales about the Squirrel.

I do not like about Squirrel, if you please, about Irbis and RBE2 in the Block F2 variant, which initially at all on 90 km saw a CC with an EPR of 5 sq.! Now, however, they have reached 150 km ... And Irbis, who is with PFAR, but sees the CC at 100-400 km - depending on the EPR.

“N035 Irbis” has a target detection range from EPR 0.01 m² to 100 km; EPR 0.1 m² to 160 km; EPR 1 m² to 270 km; EPR 3 m² to 400 km. L-band antenna system, which has a target detection range from EPR 0.01 m² to 130 km.

And remember, the Russians who were banished by God ceased to slurp their soup for a long time ... As your fellow tribesmen left the borders of the collapsing Union, the places you occupied earlier in science that you only dragged your fellow tribesmen to have freed. I remember it well for the defense!
So, "swam - we know!" (from)

[nks]

With your imagination you would still have literary talent - you would not be sitting here. By the way, if you are talking about Israel, then I have not been there, although after a month I’m going to the sea there.

[peter rusin_2]

the voice of blood spoke!

[nks]

With such amazing logic, we have almost half the country of Turks, Spaniards and other Egyptians with Thais.

[Town Hall]

The figures given in the article are nothing more than the author’s fantasies. Like the hype in the comments.
Indian court forbids declassifying details of the deal on Rafale fighters
09:11, December 14, 2018
Moreover, this contract is not just the purchase of 36 airplanes. There is a very extensive program of offset orders from Dassal from Indian firms of other products not related to the production of these airplanes. It’s kind of like we buy airplanes from you, you order the same amount we have other products. 8 billion is the figure of the TOTAL transaction value, not the price of planes. So the figure for 36 aircraft is about 3,5-4 billion. That is, about 100 million per unit with all the bells and whistles — training, weapons, etc. TP.100 million per package is approximately the price of other transactions on aircraft of this level in the world.

[hydrox]

Let's do it differently: if two groups collide somewhere, one on the Rafaly and the other on the Su-35 - who will suffer heavy losses?
Now about the causes of losses.
1. If you hang containers with electronic warfare and with an eye on Rafal, then Rafal loses at a speed of min 200 km / h, and at the same time at a sickly speed of 1915 km / h, while the Su-35 gives 2250 km / h.
2 Su-35 does not need both of these containers, since these systems are integrated.
3. The central comp is for target designation, what? So the Su-35 is a built-in function.
4. About the absence of AFAR on the Su-35 you are lying, because the machine is equipped with radar NO35 Irbis with built-in passive AFAR.

In addition, the Su-35 has a function of tracking targets in the rear hemisphere, Rafal in the rear hemisphere is blind as a mole.
On the catch-up courses, Rafal’s 35th detection range is 150 km, while Rafal with the THREE PTB and EW is good if he can escape from the Su-35 on his 1600-1700 km / h.
It is amazing that there is no data about the capabilities of avionics, but the machine is not young: it’s not all right to see avionics, or it does not meet the tasks
So you are defending a mothberry that can only bomb old people, children and women.
And then :: why did YOU (singled out!) Need to compare the Rafal light fighter with the heavy Su-35, if, due to the difference in categories, Rafal would obviously be a loser.

[voyaka uh]

"NO35 Irbis radar with built-in passive AFAR" ///
----
This is not called AFAR, but PFAR.
"P" means "passive" (one powerful amplifier-transmitter and many receivers).
"A" means "active" (each element has both an emitter and a receiver).
In the second case, flexible and dynamic radar tuning is possible. Therefore, all aircraft manufacturers switched from PFAR to AFAR.
The only Russian AFAR Squirrel is installed on the Su-57 in the amount of 3 prototypes.

[voyaka uh]

Israeli company Elta produces AFARs for combat
aircraft for many years. For any type of aircraft, which
the customer wants.

[hydrox]

You’re slipping a good prospect :: A message two days ago: the last foreign customer abandoned the Pogosyanovsky plane - this is modern integration (the plane consisted of 85% imported components)

[hydrox]

Quote: voyaka uh

Therefore, all aircraft manufacturers switched from PFAR to AFAR.

All illiterate commentators have switched to AFAR, since literate ones have long understood that in order to ensure the stealth function, it is necessary to shine less on half the sky with their active radio emission, and more to increase the sensitivity of PFAR ...
Something like this ...
In addition, mistaking a mistake for an error is at least an ugly character trait, if you do not use more fair and strong expressions addressed to you.

[nks]

Hmm ... scribble> 4k comments and not get acquainted with the materiel at least at the basic school level - you need to be able to. For you a PRIZE + in the studio!

[hydrox]

Give a handkerchief, carpentry?

[nks]

Don’t worry so much - the prize is awarded to you free of charge. Murzilka Magazine Subscription Bonus Included

[voyaka uh]

"it is necessary to shine less for half the sky with its active radio emission" ////
-----
In PFAR, the emitter always cuts at full power,
and in AFAR you can "divide" the radar into many emitters of different
power (and various frequencies) up to the minimum.
F-35 can fly perfectly with
at minimum power at pseudorandom frequencies by radar,
orienting himself, while not losing his radio stealth.

[hydrox]

Do not make up :: any radio emission eliminates stealth.

[ZAV69]

Yes, there is a tradition of corruption more abrupt than that of the Chinese, though they are becoming more and more partners on the corruption hook. Let us recall, for example, Count Witte.

[Tusv]

The French manufacturer noted that "it is all about a limited batch of order."

The Chinese party is much more restrictive. However, only 75 megabax for the plane, which lightly goes into the tail of the Raptor, and in the Sea of ​​Japan, so one pair of F-15 flies to troll, completely without fear of the Iponians. It is urgent to take an example from the French and raise the price tag, at least to the "ridiculous" 150 megabax overboard

[nks]

> 100mln overboard Su-35 sold to China
https://iz.ru/747177/2018-05-24/rostekh-raskryl-stoimost-kontrakta-na-postavku-su-35-kitaiu

[Tusv]

Quote: nks

100 million overboard China Su-35 sold

Yes, but with a spare set of engines. And a year ago, the Austrians got "Typhon" for 139 mega Euro bucks. Sorry. Eurofighter is not worth such attendants

[nks]

As you might guess, bare aircraft generally rarely deliver. In the Chinese contract, minus the Su-35 engines, they are in any case under a hundred. At ~ 75, the Su-30 costs India. And then, in general, typhon?

[Tusv]

nks And what does typhon have to do here?

So. Skandlösche came out about eurofighter for 139 million Euros for Austria.
I zhezh about the price tag. Rafal then Eurofighter will be stronger, but in comparison with the Su-35 both children. Here it is necessary to return Taburetkin for sale. Let honestly weld on the difference in value

[nks]

Rafal will be stronger than all. A child, judging by age, there is a su-35

[Tusv]

What kind of fashion went, They don’t know how to shoot, but they learned how to put down the minuses. I removed this misunderstanding from you

[A. Suvorov]

The scheme is eternal to all of 100. To the seller, buyer, manufacturer, intermediary, lobbyist! And so the price is 25milien no more!

[knn54]

It looks like Dassault is in trouble.

[Sidor Amenpodestovich]

No wonder.
This price is due to high added value. Otherwise, it is impossible to ensure the level of salaries and pensions, which apologists of money and children abroad love so much about.

[silverwolf88]

it’s clear about the French price tag)) ... but why then choose (and there are better and more modern ones with a lower price tag on the market) a 20th century airplane at a price close to 4 ++ and almost 5 ... this can be explained only by dancing ...

[voyaka uh]

Russian aircraft - with good flight qualities, but outdated avionics - are noticeably cheaper. European - overpriced due to small series and almost a single assembly.

[Nycomed]

And lack of competition.

[Klingon]

the brahmanas pounced twice, the first time they left the FGFA program, and there would have been a letak of the 5th generation to them and the brahmanas themselves could have sucked it in to all sorts of Myanmar and so on. and now they will also buy Letak 4+ for a lot of money (as I wrote above for this money, you could have 5 with the possibility of selling it) Bollywood! Jimmy Jimmy! Acha-Acha!
who does not cry he does not eat

[sabakina]

I never understood how, with the purchase of 100 bolts, the cost of one bolt can drop to 3 rubles at a cost of 5 rubles in production?

[Zaurbek]

Su35C for China came out about $ 100 million.
Rafal is on the conveyor, and so ... it’s easier to buy F35A.

[voyaka uh]

"If all goes well, Dassault could speed up the production schedule and release one aircraft monthly for the next six years." ////
-----
One per month for India, or are they able to produce one per month?
That Typhoon, that Rafal - a single production.
Only F-35 on the conveyor ...

[sabakina]

We also have sausages on the conveyor, but it’s not possible to eat them, unlike the Soviet ones ...

[Zaurbek]

Sausages are the first sausage conveyor. The first automation in sausage business.

[Tersky]

Quote: sabakina

We also have sausages on the conveyor, but it’s not possible to eat them,

!!! By the way, not only sausages ... Enumerate, there will not be enough space on the branch. Our to you

[Town Hall]

Quote: voyaka uh

One per month for India

Is India in a position to "master" a more intense schedule of aircraft deliveries? Do they have the infrastructure ready to use these brand new aircraft? How long does it take to train crews and technicians for a number of times, organize logistics, etc., etc. The point of what is to supply them with 36 aircraft for a year, and then they will "rot" for years in hangars due to the fact that there are no trained pilots and technicians.
The delivery times are probably tied to the degree of readiness of the Indians to "master" the aircraft. As well as to the schedules of payments, return orders and payments of the French under contracts, etc., etc. Indians pay with real money ... and not buy with the supplier's credits. And palm oil not calculated)

[Potato]

This also surprised me. One per month for such a fun company is not even funny. Apparently, yellow vests forgot how to work))

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: voyaka uh

"If all goes well, Dassault could speed up the production schedule and release one aircraft monthly for the next six years." ////
-----
One per month for India, or are they able to produce one per month?
That Typhoon, that Rafal - a single production.
Only F-35 on the conveyor ...

But what kind of F-35. Stealth say? Yes yes.

The F-35 fighter "glows" on radar like a passenger airliner, Defense Aerospace reports. The wear of a special coating that allows the latest fighter to become "invisible" to radars, leads to the fact that the aircraft is visible on radars. To prevent this from happening, literally after each flight, the coverage for the F-35 must be updated.

https://m.tsargrad.tv/news/nevidimka-svetjashhajasja-na-radarah-kak-amerikanskie-f-35-provalivajut-kazhdyj-polet_173415

[nks]

This year,> 24 rafals will be delivered (by the way, there are less su-35). And strictly speaking, this is not called a conveyor, but simply the sizes of the series are different.
A factory in Merignac can produce up to 30 a year. Partially, production in India is localized, which also increases opportunities. The matter of orders and planning

[Vladimir61]

And how some representatives of the Armed Forces and the Government of India perverted in the press about the purchase of Russian equipment. Sometimes the ancient descendants of the gypsies can be bred! Do not be deceived and not deceived.

[Lord of the Sith]

Hahah, buy another batch of planes from us, and we will make a discount, cleverly)))
The French defeated the Indians))

[Zomanus]

Let the little pigs pay ...
They sent us, they say they decided to try a new one.
Well, if they turn to us, I hope ours will offer a price lower ... quite a bit lower.

[Strashila]

"produce one aircraft monthly for the next six years", which will be the last of the series, by 2025, by the characteristics of trash. Let the cost of operation be announced in relation to the MiG-35, what will be their use for India. And in general, further modernization is possible and how much it will cost ... so the latest cars will have a different price tag.

[Reading]

Somehow expensive. Against the background of the same F35

[nks]

In reality, everything is somewhat wrong, of course. Firstly, on the one hand, no one has officially announced the amount of the contract, and on the other hand, it has been unofficially known since the signing of the contract (2016) - this figure has since been replicated. The cost of the sides themselves ~ 3,3 yards eur = ~ 92mln on average per side is also not officially known (and there are two types: sparks are more expensive, single are cheaper). Secondly, in the contract a substantial amount for OCD for specific modifications for India is ~ 1,7 yards. Actually, this amount is the main (but not the only) resource for lowering the price of overboard. With a starting contract of 36 rafals, the cost of OCD per unit will be 47 mln, at 100 - 17 mln, and at 200 (taking into account a possible fleet contract) - 8,5 mln.
At the same time, do not forget about the offset -> 3 yards of the contract amount are invested in the aerospace enterprises of India.
This, of course, is not news either, and all this was known 3 years ago, just now, in connection with the arrival of the first boards, option negotiations have intensified

[Victoria-V]

Now grab the minuses !!!

[nks]

Yes, let them eat - I do not mind :) I myself only if I put pluses, but rarely. You, Vika, plus :)

[iouris]

What is India paying for? I think not only for a certain number of aircraft. So how much "huge" price India pays is not our question. The Russian Federation has lost the competition and the reasons are clear: the ability of the Russian Federation to independently produce high-quality aviation equipment is called into question.

[eagle owl]

Sniffing with your mouth and mouth is not good. You can tear

[123456789]

Quote: Peter Rusin_2

SU-30s produced in Russia cost Indians 41,2 million, US dollars, and those produced by Indians cost 72 million! Such is the arithmetic)))

Why dump so?

[123456789]

In general, it is more correct to compare Rafal with the Mig-35, and not the Su-35S.

Country
Russia
France
Manufacturer
OKB Mikoyan Gurevich
Dassault
Name
MiG-35
Flurry
Modification
MiG-35
Flurry
Start of production (g.)
2002
1985
Length (m.)
17.32
15.30
Height (m.)
4.73
5.34
Wingspan (m.)
12.00
10.90
Empty weight (kg.)
11 000
9 060
Maximum take-off weight (kg.)
22 700
21 500
Maximum flight range (km.)
3 000
2 000
Maximum flight speed (km / h)
2 400
1 900
Cruising speed (km / h)
-
1 350
Practical ceiling (m.)
17 500
16 765
Power point
2 x TRDDF RD-33 ser.3M
2 x Turbofan SNECMA M88-2
Engine power
8 800
92
The crew (people).
2
2
weaponry
30-mm gun GSH-301 (ammunition 100 cartridges),
combat load - 4500 kg at 9 nodes of the suspension (in reloading version, with a reduced fuel supply) - not more than 9000 kg,
UR class air - medium-range air R-27 and RVV-AE, short-range missiles R-73, anti-ship X-31A and X-35
12 250 kg of bombs and 4 8 SD or SD
Produced (units)
-
140

[123456789]

In the light of increasing competition, not so much in aircraft types as in the struggle for crumbs allocated by the state, the appointment of M. Poghosyan, a native of Sukhoi, the head of MiG corporation, looked rather ambiguous in 2009. Then, during 2011-2014, Mikhail Aslanovich headed the JSC UAC. At that time, the largest once OKB Mikoyan struggled for survival. The collective was forced to apply in an open letter to the leadership of Russia with a request for help, justifying it with a number of facts, to which until then only experts drew attention. In particular, the Mikoyans almost directly blamed the loss of the MiG-35 Indian tender Pogosyan, who lobbied the SSJ-100 passenger project with all his might. It's not a type of aircraft, but money, which would have to "tear off" from the "Superjet" for the production of more than a hundred "MiGs."
While victory multipurpose fighter «4 ++» generation MiG-35 seemed a foregone conclusion. Especially since India first expressed interest in the aircraft, the military experts of the country were present at the trial, their comments were taken for execution. Interestingly, the abandoning of the contract, India has not lost interest in the MiG-35, the improvement which continues in the direction of increasing combat effectiveness, function, versatility, and overall improvement of performance in accordance with modern requirements.

Read more at: http://avia.pro/blog/mig-35

[Reserve buildbat]

Gypsy paddlers inflated. The beauty!