Historical detective. Four flags and five names of one destroyer

57
Knowingly about planes or tanks never write like about ships. The ship is a thing in itself, as if playing for a long time on stage stories, if you're lucky. Therefore, often fate arranged such tests for them that you simply wonder how it could have happened.





Here is today's hero of my story - one of the Novik type destroyers. The ship’s design was simply gorgeous, and Russia in those years became the trendsetter of the destroyer fashion, so to speak.

Probably worth saying about the ships in numbers.



Displacement total: 1260 tons
Length: 98 meters
Width: 9,3 meter
Draft: 3 meter

Engines: 2 x 16 000 hp on fuel oil
Speed: 35 nodes
Navigation range: 2800 miles

Armament:
4 guns 102-mm, 1 guns 37-mm, 2 machine gun "Maxim", 3 three-pipe torpedo tubes 457-mm., Mines - 80 pieces.

Crew: 150 people.

The boat, as you see, is small, but fast and toothy.

And now one of the Novikov, which was laid down at the shipyard of the Putilovskiy Zavody Society in St. Petersburg in September 1913, was called Captain Kinsbergen on October 11.

Truly, “as you call a yacht, so ...”

The big deal is the name given to the ship.

We start with the origins, namely, who was the captain of Kinsbergen and why the Russian ship was named after him fleet?

Historical detective. Four flags and five names of one destroyer


The name is clear that the Dutchman. Ian Hendrick van Kinsbergen, to be exact. Following the example of many of his compatriots in 1771, he entered the service of the Russian fleet with the rank of captain-lieutenant. Running ahead, he rose to the captain of the first rank.

In the 1772 year, during the Russo-Turkish war of the 1768-1774 years, he was assigned to the Danube Flotilla, where he took command of the grenot "Peremyrenosets".

In 1773, Jan Hendrik van Kinsbergen led the squadron of the Azov Flotilla.

23 June 1773 year, commanding two newly invented ships, won the first victory of the Russian fleet on the Black Sea in the battle of Balaklava.

30 July 1773 year for the battle of Balaclava was awarded the Order of St. George 4-th degree. Then there was a successful battle with the Turks at Sujuk-Kale and another order of St. George, 3-th degree.

But then it began ...

In 1775, Kinsbergen seemed to quit his Russian service, left for his homeland and continued his naval career in the Dutch fleet. In 1777, he was excluded from the lists of Russian officers due to failure to appear. But attempts to return Kinsbergen to the fold of the Russian fleet continued, he was really appreciated.

From the 1780 of the year he commanded one of the ships of the squadron of Admiral Zutman and on August 5 of the 1781 of the year he took part in the battle of Dogger Bank. That is, he fought on the side of the Dutch against the British.

He rose to the full admiral, became the commander of the naval forces of Holland.
He organized the strengthening of the Dutch ports against the invasion of the French. After the establishment of the Batavian Republic in 1795, he was deprived of the admiral's rank and imprisoned, but was soon released (without restoration to the rank).

Offended by his homeland, Kinsbergen was in the service of his neighbors in Denmark. After Denmark, somehow fought for those against whom he built the defense in Holland, that is, in the Bonaparte fleet. He received the title of Count van de Doggersbank from Louis Bonaparte.

He returned to Holland, but did not have time to really accomplish anything, because after the fall of Napoleon he was again dismissed from service (but at least not imprisoned), retired completely and died peacefully in 1819.

Why did I tell you so much about the life of the admiral? Everything is simple. “What do you call a yacht ...” Let's see what fate was in store for the ship named after Count van de Doggersbank.

And mysticism happened to the ship. In general, besides our destroyer, the Dutch called their ships three times in honor of Kinsbergen, but failed to trace their fate. But our Novik is enough for us.



In June 1915, the destroyer under construction was renamed at the request of the crew and became known as “Captain 1 of the rank of Miklouh-Maclay”. Of course, it's crooked, because “Maclay” was a nickname that became part of the surname of the eldest of the three brothers Miklukh, the famous ethnographer, Nikolai Nikolayevich.

And the captain of the first rank Vladimir Nikolaevich bore, like his father, the name of Miklukh. But they called the destroyer that way.

After October 1917, the destroyer changed its flag, as it was part of the fleet of another state - Soviet Russia. Naturally, the name also had to be changed right away, because how is it normal if the ship bears the name of a Russian officer, who died heroically in battle? Of course not.

Therefore, after a year (probably a long time they chose the name), the ship was called "Spartak". A very nautical name, but nothing can be done.



The renaming happened on December 18 of 1918 of the year, and on December 26 of December Spartak, together with the destroyer of the same type Avtroil, went on its first combat mission: reconnaissance raid to the Revel port.

In general, this frankly stupid operation is worth telling separately, since it showed very clearly the organizational talents of rallying naval commanders such as F.F. Ilyin / Raskolnikov, who presented two warships to the enemy.

The result of the operation was the capture by the British of two excellent ships and a shame for the Baltic Fleet. We will not touch Avtoil, but what happened to Spartak?

Waiting for the approach of Avtroil with the cruiser Oleg, Spartak engaged in shelling the Estonian islands, but seeing a detachment of British ships (2 cruiser and 4 destroyer) coming in its direction, the crew staged a short meeting (as was customary then) and deployed the ship , began to move away from the enemy.

What happened next is a subject of special study, since there are several versions of what happened.

I am inclined to stick to the one that says that a single shell hit the Spartak. British sailors have always been able to do this - to hit shells in other people's ships.

But this shell smashed the navigator’s cabin, the navigator N. N. Struysky was shell-shocked and slightly wounded by fragments, he was carried to the cabin, and the cabin was ... slightly destroyed. They say that the map on which Struisky laid the route turned out to be "crumpled and tattered."

As a result, the only person who could lead the ship turned out to be out of order, there was no one to replace the navigator (this is not a rally in utah), therefore the ship sat on a can of Quradium quite normally.

The British approached, the flag of the ship was already lowered. The crew surrendered, many sailors were shot by the British on the island of Naisaar, and the head of the campaign, Raskolnikov, was exchanged for British officers who were captured during the attack on Kronstadt by torpedo boats.

The British calmly took the ship aground and on January 3 of the year 1919 they handed over the destroyer to the Estonian navy. Here he received the name "Vambola".



Under the new flag and with a new name, the ship managed to participate, together with the British fleet, in military operations against ships and land units of Soviet Russia.

Vambola took part in shelling the forts “Krasnaya Gorka” and “Gray Horse”, setting up minefields (on which, by the way, three destroyers of the Baltic Fleet blew up and died: “Gabriel”, “Constantine” and “Freedom”) and landing in to the rear of the red troops.

But after the end of the civil war, in general, he had no business. The ship with the abridged crew mainly stood at the pier. Remember, “if you want to ruin a small country, give it a cruiser”? And so it happened.



Basically, the ship stood at the pier with a semblance of crew on board, and in 1933 it was sold to Peru. In the naval forces of this state, he received the name "Almirante Villar".



It is clear that the ship would not have been named after a simple employee. Rear Admiral Manuel Oliveira Villar in 1881 was the commander in chief of the combined Chilean-Peruvian squadron during the battle with the Spaniards at Abtao.

One of the authors of the new naval charter of Peru. By the way, the destroyer Almirante Villar is the first of the three ships of the Peruvian fleet that bore this name. Almost like in the story with Kinsbergen.



And now, on the other side of the world, the former Russian destroyer had to fight. "Villars" participated in two wars. I could not find the details of his actions in the Colombian-Peruvian war of 1932-33 of the year, but the battle with the Ecuadorian gunboat “Abdon Calderon” in 1941 is described in rather detail.

In general, wars in Latin America are a boring and ordinary phenomenon. I would say that the main thing there is not the result, but the process itself. But the victims were not an example of Europe. For example, in the 1941-42 war of the year (grappled with disguised lands), a little less than 1200 people died, and almost 300 thousand square kilometers of territory went to Peru.

According to the Ecuadorian military, the “Admiral Villar” received great damage, according to the Peruvian - the destroyer, of course, emerged from the battle as the winner. But most likely, the battle ended in a draw, and zero.

If only because after the conclusion of the next peace treaty in the 1942 year, “Admiral Villar” was in the service right up to the 1955 year. This is a lot for a ship of this class, especially since it did not stand still.

40 years, several wars, long trips ...



The life of the ship came to an end in 1955, when the “Almirante Villar” was cut into metal. This destroyer turned out to be the most long-lived of all Noviks.

Verily, what is the name of the ship so it will live.

Captain Kinsbergen served under the flags of Russia, Holland, Denmark, France. The destroyer, originally named after him, served the Russian Empire, Soviet Russia, Estonia, and Peru.

Well, how can one not be surprised at such strange coincidences?
57 comments
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  1. +13
    24 August 2019 06: 18
    Amazing fates are found in people and in ships. Cool article with lots of photos! Thank!
  2. +4
    24 August 2019 06: 28
    Interestingly, some part of our "white" emigration has settled in South America, did any of its representatives serve on this "Novik" in Peru?
    1. +5
      24 August 2019 07: 16
      Quote: svp67
      Interestingly, some part of our "white" emigration has settled in South America, did any of its representatives serve on this "Novik" in Peru?

      Alas, I read the history of the destroyer "Miklouho-Maclay" before this article, but I have never come across that Russians would serve on this ship in Peru. This is about the sale and ferrying of destroyers in Peru "Completion of the task of manning the crews of destroyers was greatly delayed due to
      long preparation and approval of lists, so that travelers on board the "Parinyas"
      were able to leave Callao not on July 8, but only on August 20, 1933
      By this time, both ships had already been inspected; their bottoms were examined in the dock. All
      this was carried out under the direction of Captain Fadr and an expert from Vickers, who
      participated as a technical adviser.
      Despite the difficulties with picking, contractual terms of purchase (concluded
      ny with the company Vickers as an intermediary) were performed on time. To assess the state of
      tire trials were carried out. According to the information that appeared, on August 22, "Vil-
      yar "showed a maximum speed of 30,1 knots, and" Guisse "- 31,5 knots. Two days later, on August 24,
      The ceremony of raising the National flag took place.
      Since the destroyers were understaffed, and time was running out, it was recognized
      it’s advisable to use Peruvian officers as trainees, while on destroyers
      build Estonian teams for the first stage of the voyage - the transition to England. Thus,
      but it would be partly to adopt knowledge and experience in the operation of on-board systems.http: //ejournal37.com/journals_n/1444802640.pdf
    2. +3
      24 August 2019 10: 25
      It is possible that some navigator, mechanic. I heard on TV for a long time that in Paraguay and Chile in the early 20th century there was an acute shortage of naval navigators, but what is better for Peru?
      1. 0
        24 August 2019 20: 45
        The open ocean for Peru and the very complicated system of coastal islands of southern Chile ... It seems to me that the problem is that Paraguay is located within the continent, without access to the sea wink lol smile smile smile
    3. 0
      25 August 2019 01: 54
      Quote: svp67
      Interestingly, some part of our "white" emigration has settled in South America, did any of its representatives serve on this "Novik" in Peru?


      It is known only about the participation of Russian sailors in this war, on the side of Colombia.

      According to data published in exile, an invitation to enter the Colombian service received six Russian naval officers living in France. We know only four of them: captains of the 2nd rank K.G. Love N.I. Butkovsky, V.K. Pashkevich and lieutenant E.A. Girs. Various emigrant newspapers published an essay by one of the expedition members, hiding under the initials of N.P.V., entitled "How We Fought with Peru"

      The main task of the Russian instructors was to put on combat alertness, arming and driving from France the Mosquera transport purchased by Colombia in England in 1933, as well as the gunboats Cordoba and Bogotá. December 21, 1932 "Mosquera" arrived on the shores of South America. Less than a month later, the auxiliary cruiser, escorted by the Boyaka transport and the gunboat Penguin, sailed into the upper Amazon. "Mosquera", participating in the transport of troops of the expeditionary force under the command of General A. Vazquez Cobo (who was also the commander of the armed forces of Colombia), walked along the Amazon for more than 4 thousand kilometers. About this amazing campaign, Lubi wrote a book entitled Under the Colombian Flag. Alas, it never came out of the press (in any case, reliable information about this is not available), only excerpts from it were published on the pages of the Prague Maritime Journal and the Parisian newspaper Vozrozhdenie.

      Participation in the "overseas expedition" Russian sailors described in humorous tones. The fact is that in the Colombian Navy there reigned such orders that they could not dream of during their service in the Imperial Navy, even in a terrible dream. Here is what he writes ... P.N.V .: “... I had 14 languages ​​on the ship. World rabble, as in gold mines. Healthy, strong, toothy, muscular, they do not understand anything in the marine industry. ”
      K.G. Lyubi wrote that one of the “converts” of the naval artillery (a former land soldier) cleaned the sight glass with emery paper, after which nothing was visible in them; in another case, "for solidity", the trunks of the 88-mm guns of the Moskery transport were lengthened with ... ventilation pipes, and many other unusual facts.

      https://history.wikireading.ru/177082
  3. +2
    24 August 2019 07: 12
    Far brought fate
  4. +3
    24 August 2019 07: 26
    It is not known about the Peruvian fleet, but it is certain that Russian military emigrants participated in the Chaco Grande war. Also A. Bushkov in one of the "Piranhas" walked over them in passing. And the fact that the Bolsheviks, instead of continuing the development of the "Novik" series, muddied with the leaders "Leningrad", and then with the practically Italian "7" is in my opinion a big minus. The fleet did not grow qualitatively, in spite of the fact that the Black Sea Noviks were raised from the bottom of the sea, but not all of them entered service. What prevented from series to series to add in displacement and size? To increase the capacity of the power plant, to develop steam turbine plants, new propellers, and 130 mm main gas barrels. Italian or Swedish anti-aircraft guns. For our seas, ships are the most. On Altistoria there are many projects of such "AltNoviks" created, nothing so, great, reasonable and beautiful.
    1. +6
      24 August 2019 09: 35
      Quote: Popov Konstantin Ivanovich
      And the fact that the Bolsheviks, instead of continuing the development of the "Novik" series, muddied with the leaders "Leningrad", and then with the practically Italian "7" is in my opinion a big minus.

      “The most important thing is that in the conditions of the North and the Pacific Ocean near Novikov in a strong storm, the hulls of the ships did not crack or break.
      Manganese steel was highly brittle and was used by designers to facilitate the hull, but without the necessary verification. During the war, it turned out that the selected material was unsuccessful. The sheets made of it, when hit by fragments of bombs and shells cracked and themselves gave a large number of fragments, affecting personnel, devices and mechanisms. Conventional steel 3, used in the construction of decks and superstructures, did not crack and did not produce such fragments.
      The "flimsy" of the overly lightweight hulls and superstructures of Soviet destroyers led to the fact that they not only constantly received damage from storm waves, but also often suffered from concussions when firing their own guns (this happened with the "Steady", "Strict", "Stroyny" ). Especially unpleasant were the cases when the devices installed on the forward bulkhead of the navigator's room were out of order from firing from 130-mm guns No. 2. "
      1. +1
        24 August 2019 10: 00
        if I am you. Nicholas understood correctly, the revolution - i.e. "sevens" are the enemy of evolution - the line of development of "Novikov". No, well, what, the Black Sea Noviks "were the pinnacle of development, but in almost the same displacement, without increasing their size, their politics and civil war ruined. The development of destroyers as a class in the USSR probably had to go along the line of the Ushakov series, as well as then along the line of development of projects "56" or "61" without perverted insinuations such as BOD. 61 was originally the SKR. "Singing Destroyer" sounds cool.
        1. +3
          24 August 2019 10: 57
          Quote: Popov Konstantin Ivanovich
          if I am you. Nicholas understood correctly, the revolution - i.e. "sevens" are the enemy of evolution - the line of development of "Novikov".
          IMHO the way it is. Ushakov's series were tailored for the Azov-Black Sea theater, so they had to be developed. Baltika, North, Pacific Fleet, destroyers of the "Izyaslav" type would be more suitable. They were larger. "The destroyers of the Izyaslav class differed from the rest of the turbine destroyers of the Novik class in that they had a longer forecastle and anti-roll Fram tanks, as well as vertical formations of the hull sides. Ships of this type were the most powerful in armament and large in size among the destroyers of the Russian fleet of that time, in fact they were leaders, despite the fact that officially such a class of warships did not exist in Russia before the revolution. "
          https://wiki.wargaming.net/ru/Navy:%D0%98%D0%B7%D1%8F%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2_(1914)
          1. 0
            24 August 2019 11: 28
            Yes. somehow forgot about the unfinished Baltic, sapsem scored request
    2. +2
      25 August 2019 15: 38
      Quote: Popov Konstantin Ivanovich
      And the fact that the Bolsheviks, instead of continuing the development of the "Novik" series, muddied with the leaders "Leningrad", and then with the practically Italian "7" is in my opinion a big minus.

      The ambush was that at a time when it was possible to continue the design and construction of "Noviks" with their evolution from series to series, the country simply did not have either the money or the industry for it. The maximum possible is the completion of the ready-made unfinished projects. There were projects for new EMs, including those based on the "improved" Noviks, but it was not possible to build them.
      And when the industry and the budget were able to build something larger than the TFR, it was already too late to evolve - it was necessary to skip over a 15-year break. Because even the limitrophes began to strengthen their fleets with a new type of "five-inch" EM.
      Romania planned to introduce two large destroyers (Regele Ferdinand and Regina Maria), built in Italy, into its naval forces in 1930. They had weapons of five 120 mm, one 76 mm guns, two 40 mm anti-aircraft guns, two machine guns, two 533 mm three-tube torpedo tubes, 50 min; standard displacement was 1 tons, speed - 900 knots. Earlier, in 35, the Romanian fleet was replenished with two Nibbio type destroyers acquired in Italy, built in 1925-1918 and modernized there in 1919-1926 (armament: four 1927-mm and two 120-mm guns, two machine guns , two 76-mm double-tube torpedo tubes, displacement - 450 tons, speed - 1430 knots).
      Turkey ordered four destroyers with 120 mm artillery, displacement of 1 tons and a speed of 250-36 knots at Italian shipyards. Their bookmark was planned in 38, and their entry into operation in 1930.
      In 1930, two destroyers (Wicher and Burza), built in France (of the Bourrasque type), were planned to enter the Polish Navy in the Baltic. They were armed with four 130-mm and two 47-mm guns, four machine guns, two 533-mm three-tube torpedo tubes, 60 min, displacement - 1540 tons, cruising speed - 33 knots.
      © P.I. Kachur, A.B. Morin. Leaders of destroyers of the USSR Navy
  5. +7
    24 August 2019 08: 01
    In general, besides our destroyer, the Dutch called their ships three times in honor of Kinsbergen

    The first of these three is the Van Kinsbergen sloop. In the period between the wars in the British and Dutch fleets there was such a class of escort ships.
    The ship served well, participated actively in the Second World War as part of the British Navy and received the nickname "The Flying Dutchman". From the late 1950s it was used as a floating barracks and was dismantled for metal in 1974.
    1. +9
      24 August 2019 08: 08
      The second was the "Kortenaer" class frigate, laid down in 1975. In 1995 it was sold to Greece, where it received the name "Navarin". In service today.
      1. +4
        24 August 2019 08: 23
        The third was a training ship, built this century.
        1. +6
          24 August 2019 09: 47
          I'm sorry, I was wrong. Laid down in 1999.
  6. +2
    24 August 2019 08: 18
    A BEAUTIFUL article ... thanks to such authors, I hang out on the site ... Respect and respect to the author ... I WANT ANOTHER !!!!! hi hi hi
  7. -3
    24 August 2019 08: 26
    Naturally, the name also had to be changed right away, because how is it normal if the ship bears the name of a Russian officer, who died heroically in battle? Of course not.

    Naturally, it was not the Russians who came to power in October 1917 ....
  8. +6
    24 August 2019 10: 09
    Actually, the destroyer with two guns on the nose "Avtroil" bore the name "Almirante Guissé" in the Peruvian fleet, but if you consider that the article about TWO destroyers is forgivable. And if about one thing, then the photos must be signed. With y, i hi
    1. +4
      24 August 2019 10: 54
      Here, too, when I saw a photo of the destroyer, in my subconscious, against my will, "Avtroil" instantly appeared ... Yes
  9. +1
    24 August 2019 10: 25
    A good article with previously unknown information ... Thanks to the author hi
  10. +1
    24 August 2019 10: 40
    "There was no one to replace the navigator" actually, FF Raskolnikov-Ilyin graduated from the Midshipmen's courses, and there, among other disciplines, was navigator's business. So at least I read
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      24 August 2019 13: 22
      Quote: Astra wild
      "There was no one to replace the navigator" actually, FF Raskolnikov-Ilyin graduated from the Midshipmen's courses, and there, among other disciplines, was navigator's business. So at least I read

      Ships to drive, not to rally. Here knowledge is needed.
  11. +2
    24 August 2019 10: 47
    "Noviki" is my first "naval love", since childhood, along with "midges" - boats "MO-4" and "pikes" - submarines of this type. Yes
    It is always interesting to learn more about them.

    But just now I noticed two large white dials above the aft bridge of the destroyer - at first I thought that it was a mechanical repeater for aiming aft "hundred parts", then I doubted ... but what it really is, can any of the competent colleagues explain the actual purpose these two "scoreboards" ??!
    1. +3
      24 August 2019 13: 43
      Quote: pishchak
      and what is it really, can any of the competent colleagues explain the real purpose of these two "scoreboards" ??!

      Generally speaking, this is a range dial, graded with the numbers 1-9, while for the small arrow, they indicated thousands of yards, and for the large, hundreds of yards, respectively. Thus, the dial showed the distance to 10 000 yards (or something else, it depends on the units of measurement, they can be any), but here's why they were hoisted two - this riddle is great
      1. 0
        24 August 2019 13: 48
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        oh that's why they were hoisted by two - this riddle is great

        Maybe just like a nonius? I mean, the second.
        1. +2
          24 August 2019 14: 56
          Quote: Mordvin 3
          Maybe just like a nonius?

          Generally speaking, it is doubtful, After all, the main dial will show with an accuracy of tens of yards or meters - more accurately for shooting is not necessary. The only thing that comes to mind is that the second dial may show the range to another target, but why should Novik shoot at two ships at once? This is a bad idea even for a battleship, let alone a destroyer.
          1. +2
            24 August 2019 15: 12
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            After all, the main dial will show up to tens of yards or meters

            There, one points to 9-50, and the other 12-00. I remove the first assumption, put forward another, one of the dials is just a clock. wink
            1. +2
              24 August 2019 16: 20
              Thank you for your clarification, dear aka Mordvin 3! good
              I also noticed different readings, but in two photographs from different angles - on the left dial the same position of the hands - in the case of a "clock function", would it change by the time it takes the photographer to move relative to the subject? winked
              Most likely that day the sailors did not return the left dial of the "sighting range" to its original position ?!
            2. +2
              25 August 2019 00: 09
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              After all, the main dial will show up to tens of yards or meters

              There, one points to 9-50, and the other 12-00. I remove the first assumption, put forward another, one of the dials is just a clock. wink

              The dials are slightly different. On the left (9:50), there is an additional marking for 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4. Apparently for shooting at a distance of less than 10000 yards.

              This is a Vickers device (but it’s not accurate).

              high resolution photo:
              http://vfl.ru/fotos/ee24b4f94118696.html
              / after the transition, make a "click" on the photo /
              1. 0
                25 August 2019 00: 41
                Quote: Freeman
                The dials are slightly different.

                Yeah. This is definitely not a watch and obviously two slightly different devices. recourse
      2. +1
        24 August 2019 16: 12
        Thank you for your clarification, dear aka Andrei from Chelyabinsk! good
        Two guns, two dials ?! winked
        1. +2
          24 August 2019 16: 39
          Quote: pishchak
          Two guns, two dials ?!

          I thought about it, but in general it is unnecessary. God forbid the destroyer to shoot at one target, if there are two of them, then dispersing the fire will reduce the number of hits very significantly, that is, shooting from 2 guns at different targets is generally meaningless.
          1. +1
            24 August 2019 16: 45
            Maybe so, but maybe duplication, in case of damage in battle ?!
            At that time, the “noviks” were considered to be “superminos” with a sufficiently large main caliber and, as on all “big ships”, each such large-caliber gun relied (just in case, for example, in case of dispersal of fire on different targets) its own range repeater? ?! winked
            Yes, and the external aesthetics (in this case, the harmonious symmetry of outwardly beautiful, noticeable "devices") on the ship plays (then played) not the last role ?! smile
          2. +1
            26 August 2019 02: 10
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            I thought about it, but in general it is unnecessary.

            Exactly.
            For example, the French destroyer "Bourrasque" is sinking near Dunkirk. Two guns - one dial.
            1. 0
              26 August 2019 13: 23
              hi Dear Comrade, the meaning of this artillery repeater is that the gunner of the firing range sees it, and so I understand that on a sinking destroyer it is a half-tower, completely open from behind, like on Soviet "sevens" ?!
              That is, the calculation of the semi-tower "A", being in its places, will not be able to see the repeater placed on the wheelhouse fence in any way (because of the overhanging wave breaker) - probably their same repeater is located next to - on the bow bulkhead of the turret superstructure of the second gun ?? ?
              1. +1
                27 August 2019 00: 41
                Quote: pishchak
                the calculation of the half-tower "A", being in its places, will not be able to see the repeater placed on the wheelhouse fence in any way (because of the overhanging wave breaker) - probably their same repeater is located next to it, on the bow bulkhead of the turret superstructure of the second gun?

                Respected beeper,
                here is a fragment of a photograph of a French destroyer of the "Aigle" class, I do not insist, but, in my opinion, the second dial is missing there.
                1. +1
                  27 August 2019 02: 15
                  hi Dear Comrade, you are absolutely right! I also don’t observe the second dial (and even a hint of it), and I’m already inclined to think that in this case, with French destroyers, it’s not a ship clock (after all, the time on the dial coincides with the noon shadow in the photo as a whole), according to the then architectural fashion for "big" tower clocks, tax, "progressive solution" instead (or duplication) of the classic ship bell and "flasks" ??!
                  Thank you and all comrades for your participation and clarification! good
                  In general, I already realized that I need to "ventilate" this interesting "question" in detail, on occasion, through my channels, and I will focus on the photographs of that time! Yes
                  1. +1
                    27 August 2019 03: 17
                    Quote: pishchak
                    you need to "ventilate" this interesting "question" in detail, on occasion, through my channels, and I will focus on the photographs of that time!

                    Respected beeper,
                    noticed that in the photographs of American battleships, for example, "New Mexico", you can also see the dial. This is 1935, the passage of the Panama Canal.

                    And in English they were also installed. And on one of the shots there is the American battleship 1930's, where on one mast there are at least three dials, and all are turned in different directions.
      3. +1
        25 August 2019 00: 35
        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        Quote: pishchak
        and what is it really, can any of the competent colleagues explain the real purpose of these two "scoreboards" ??!

        Generally speaking, this is a range dial graded by the numbers 1–9, while for the small arrow the English indicated thousands of yards, and for the large, hundreds of yards, respectively. Thus, the dial showed a distance of up to 10 yards (or something else, it depends on the units of measurement, they can be any), but that's why two of them were hoisted - this riddle is great

        I dare to assume that one dial duplicates the data that a ship that carries out a target shooting transfers when acting as part of a ship squad.
        And the other transmits the testimony of its own rangefinders.
      4. 0
        25 August 2019 01: 06
        Dear Andrey! We miss your new articles. You're on vacation? When to wait for fresh stuff?
    2. +1
      26 August 2019 11: 44
      The artillery officer of the ship with their help transmits to the commandants the range calculated on the rangefinders

      the angle of horizontal guidance to the calculations is clear - the goals are visible, but how many vertically - the distance meters considered them

      it was before the introduction of a central tip

      those. using a pair of dials, you could set the distance to 99 cable inclusive, which is almost 10 miles or a little more than 18 km
  12. +2
    24 August 2019 11: 26
    Estonians in their role, received a Russian ship for free from the British, for 15 years they thought what to do with it and sold it to Peru.
  13. +3
    24 August 2019 13: 27
    Excellent article, thanks!
  14. +2
    24 August 2019 17: 22
    Thanks for the information! Usually they don’t write about this shameful page ...
  15. -1
    24 August 2019 18: 53
    interesting article and interesting fate. A ship with such a fate ...
  16. +2
    24 August 2019 20: 18
    The British approached, the flag of the ship was already lowered. The crew surrendered, many sailors were shot by the British on the island of Naisaar, and the head of the campaign, Raskolnikov, was exchanged for British officers who were captured during the attack on Kronstadt by torpedo boats.

    A curious nuance by the way. Very much influenced the morale of the Red Fleet for the better. Fools, the British no longer surrendered. And in general, the attitude towards the interventionists has become intolerant. The British openly demonstrated their unsurpassed stupidity.
  17. +3
    24 August 2019 22: 09
    Therefore, after a year (probably a long time they chose the name), the ship was called "Spartak". A very nautical name, but nothing can be done.

    What does the name of the ship "Spartak" do not suit?
    The British called the light cruiser "Leandrome" - Like a lion!
    So, according to Greek myths, a guy with a similar name DROWNED ...
    But the cruiser sailed nothing!
    And after that, a whole series of light cruisers with names from ancient Greek mythology was built -
    Leander (drowned swimming to his beloved Hero)
    Achilles (no comment)
    Neptune (understandably - the GOD of the seas)
    Orion (according to myths he was a hunter, bitten by a scorpion and died)
    Ajax (committed suicide).
    And then what is the name of Spartak bad?
    He seems to have fallen in battle! And the fact that the team handed it over in the times of revolutions and other social upheavals didn’t happen and will happen!
  18. +1
    25 August 2019 04: 05
    Basically, the ship stood at the pier with a semblance of crew on board, and in 1933 it was sold to Peru.

    The ship was sold to Latin Americans for 410 000,00 US dollars.
    For comparison, the cost of the American Tucker-class destroyer in 1934 was 5 US dollars.
  19. +4
    25 August 2019 15: 22
    What happened next is a subject of special study, since there are several versions of what happened.

    I am inclined to stick to the one that says that a single shell hit the Spartak. British sailors have always been able to do this - to hit shells in other people's ships.

    But this shell smashed the navigator’s cabin, the navigator N. N. Struysky was shell-shocked and slightly wounded by fragments, he was carried to the cabin, and the cabin was ... slightly destroyed. They say that the map on which Struisky laid the route turned out to be "crumpled and tattered."

    If the shell got into the navigational (running) cabin - then Raskolnikov would not have to write memoirs. Because the wheelhouse is located immediately behind the battle cabin, and a shell rupture in it would have whipped fragments along the bridge and the battle cabin, incapacitating those who were there.
    Raskolnikov himself writes about the close gap of an missile that missed the EM, which disordered the map and led to shrapnel wounds and a contusion of the navigator.
    If we take the modern work on these two "Noviks", then, for example. sw. NV Mityukov in the article "The Odyssey of the Baltic Destroyers" (Gangut magazine, № 45-48) gives the version of "samostrel":
    At about 13:30 p.m., the pursuing enemy fell into the shelling sector of the nasal cannon, from which only one shot was fired, but it would be better if it weren’t. He became fatal for his ship, because the gun shot at the stern at an too sharp angle, and received an air shock from the projectile that hit the shell of the navigator of the destroyer N.N. Struysky, the map on which the course was plotted turned out to be crumpled and torn, and the box with navigation maps was simply destroyed. The work on the bridge was disorganized: everyone took the shot for cover. The helmsman began to spin constantly, waiting for new hits in the ship.
  20. +1
    25 August 2019 18: 54
    At one time I got my hands on the "Handbook of Foreign Fleets for 1943", it was from it that I learned that Estonia sold TWO Novik-class destroyers to Peru. Exactly two. There was hardly a mistake in the reference book. Unfortunately, I don't have it at hand now. Perhaps the author is in the know and will tell us how it was there in the Peruvian fleet?
    The British approached, the flag of the ship was already lowered. The crew surrendered, many sailors were shot by the British on the island of Naisaar

    Dominated that earned, then received. It’s a pity that Raskolnikov wasn’t slapped to the heap - he was still a character.
    Thanks to Roman, I didn't expect this story to emerge from the "abyss of darkness", maybe try to clarify about the second ship, it would be interesting.
    1. +2
      26 August 2019 02: 27
      Quote: Sea Cat
      At one time I got my hands on the "Handbook of Foreign Fleets for 1943". Perhaps the author is aware of the matter and will tell us how it was there in the Peruvian fleet?

      Judging by the photographs from the reference book "Military Fleets. 1940", these two destroyers of the "Novik" class were the most modern surface ships there.
  21. 0
    25 August 2019 18: 58
    if only about twenty miles tea would have passed to read about his transition from Estonia to Peru ...
  22. +2
    26 August 2019 08: 58
    This destroyer turned out to be the most long-lived of all Noviks.

    Far from it! The destroyer "Corfu" (Ushakovskaya series), had 3 names, served two states, was cut into scrap metal in 1957 on the basis of "Glavvtorchermet" in Poti!
  23. +1
    26 August 2019 10: 05
    “If you want to ruin a small country - give her a cruiser”

    In the case of Ukraine, they presented a considerable part of the Black Sea Fleet!)))
  24. +3
    26 August 2019 14: 43
    Do not mistake for ADVERTISING!
    Rummaging on the Internet, I came across this photo album!
    naukatehnika.com
    Under someone else’s flag. The destroyers "Spartak" and "Avtroil" in the Navy of Estonia and Peru. Photo Album
    Price: 1 500 rub.
    The seventh issue of the series is dedicated to only two ships captured in 1918 by the British and transferred to Estonia, and later sold to Peru. Despite this, the issue turned out more than others in volume, due to the huge number of photos. Each destroyer has more than 200 photos with general views, detail elements, crew members and other ship-related photos.
    In addition, as in previous issues, there is a “color” photograph on the cover, and 4 color options for painting ships on bookends. Inside 2 large-format (2 pages) destroyer schemes.
    The description gives a detailed history of the service of ships in the Navy of Estonia and Peru. As in previous issues, at the end of the book are summary tables of command personnel and destroyers of destroyers.