Military Review

Operation "Sturgeon Fishing". To the 70 anniversary of the fall of Sevastopol

56
Operation "Sturgeon Fishing". To the 70 anniversary of the fall of Sevastopol

7 June 1942, the last assault on Sevastopol began. By June 17, after fierce fighting, the German troops were able to turn the tide in their favor. In the southern sector, the Germans captured the so-called. "Eagle's nest" and went to the foot of Sapun Mountain. In the northern sector, the enemy captured the fort "Stalin" and the foot of the Mekenziev Heights. On the same day, several more fortifications fell. As a result, German artillery could fire on the North Bay, and the supply of reinforcements and supplies was impossible. However, the inner ring of defense was still holding, and the decision to evacuate the command and political staff of the Maritime Army was made by the end of June — by that time ammunition had run out of defenders of Sevastopol. After the evacuation of the commanding staff, individual pockets of resistance held until July 9-10.

In the post-war period, the defense of Sevastopol became for many an ideal example of a passive, defensive strategy. It was believed that with a normal supply and advance preparation of Sevastopol (and Odessa) for a siege, this city could continue to hold on, hindering significant enemy forces. However, this is an erroneous view, exaggerating the possibilities of defense and not fully taking into account the offensive potential of the enemy. The experience of the First and Second World Wars proved that any defense and fortified lines sooner or later yield to the attacking side. The position of an isolated fortress (fort, dota, etc.) with an unstable supply is very precarious. The armies of the first half of the 20 century had a mass of tools for breaking into the most powerful defense: assault groups, sapper units, bombers and attack planes, heavy guns, etc. The enemy had the opportunity to gather superior forces into a fist and crush the defense system. The fall of the fortress was only a matter of time. As a result, the defensive side in a short time lost significant strength of the garrison. In most cases, the garrison did not have the physical ability to retreat, or only part of the forces could be taken out.

Sevastopol lasted so long (250 days) primarily because the 11th German army under the command of Erich von Manstein constantly faced strong external pressure. In September 1941, the advance of the Southern Front near Melitopol prevented the appearance of the German selected infantry on the Crimean Peninsula in the person of the 49th mountain corps of Ludwig Kübler. In December 1941, the assault on the base of the Black Sea fleet was interrupted by the Kerch-Feodosia landing operation. In winter and spring of 1942, the main forces of the 11th Army fought the advancing Crimean Front. It was the task of keeping Sevastopol that forced the commander of the Crimean Front, Dmitry Timofeevich Kozlov, to exert constant pressure on the 11th army. Only after the Crimean Front was defeated by May 19, and the possibilities of external influence on Manstein’s army were exhausted, the Germans were able to concentrate their forces to liquidate the garrison of Sevastopol. The fall of the city has become a matter of time. After the Kerch Peninsula was cleared of Soviet troops, the 30th Army Corps began to be transferred to Sevastopol.

Garrison of Sevastopol

While the army of Manstein was engaged in fighting the Crimean front, the garrison of Sevastopol took advantage of the respite to improve their positions. In January-March 1942 of the year, the forces of the Sevastopol Defensive Area (SORA) in some areas of the front threw the Germans back and took up the points and positions left in November-December of 1941. Thus, in the 4 sector, the Soviet troops repulsed the northern slopes of the Mekenziyev heights and advanced to the Kamyshly-Balbek line — the height of 79,4. As a result, the Germans lost convenient observation points on the north-eastern approaches to the city.

In addition, a pause in active hostilities allowed to accumulate forces and means. During the period from January 1 to June 1, the Black Sea Fleet ships and transport ships delivered thousands of tons of various cargoes to 1942, mainly ammunition and foodstuffs. The return flights were the evacuation of the civilian population and the wounded. At the same time, during the winter-spring of 77,5, the compounds of the COP obtained 1942 marching companies of a total of 34 thous. Fighters. They also transferred significant connections: the 12 th rifle division and the 386 brigade of marines were sent to the city. There was also a reorganization of the garrison. From the arrived divisions and separate parts of the Sevastopol garrison, the 79-I infantry division was formed.

By the end of May 1942, the troops defending Sevastopol were united in the Primorsky Army under the command of Major General Ivan Efimovich Petrov. The chief of staff was N.I.Krylov. The army included 7 rifle divisions, 4 rifle brigades, several units of the marines, 2 tank battalion (38 T-26 tanks) and 1 armored train. The artillery consisted of 7 divisional artillery regiments, 3 army artillery regiments, 1 army mortar division and 1 guards mortar division (12 M-8 rocket launchers). In total, the army had about 120 thousand people, 50-100 aircraft, 606 army and coastal artillery guns, 1060-1770 mortars (data sources differ). The provision of guns and mortars with ammunition was for different calibers from 2 to 7 ammunition. There was a significant shortage of mines.

The perimeter of the defense of the city was divided into four sectors. The first sector from Balaclava to the Black River (area in 7,5 km) was defended by the 109-I and 388-I divisions. The second sector from the Black River to Mekenzia (front - 12 km) was defended by units of the 386 th rifle division, 7 th and 8 brigade of marines. The third sector of the SORA from Mekenia to the Belbek River (8,5 km front section) was held by units of the 25 Rifle Division, 79-I Navy Rifle Brigade, 2-th and 3-th Marine Regiment. Protection of the fourth sector (front - 6 km) was assigned to the troops of the 95 and 172 of the rifle divisions. The reserve was the 345-rifle division, one rifle regiment, two tank battalions and the Zheleznyakov armored train.


Anti-aircraft gunners of the Zheleznyakov armored train (armored train No. 5 Coast Defense of Sevastopol) in 12,7-mm large-caliber DShK machine guns (machine guns mounted on sea-stands). In the background, 76,2-mm guns of the 34-K naval tower installations are visible.

Forces of the enemy

The destruction and ousting of the troops of the Crimean Front gave Manstein some freedom of action. To guard the Kerch Peninsula, he left two infantry and one cavalry Romanian divisions, the 46 German infantry division, and the Grodek motorized brigade. After the operation “Hunting a Bustard” (operation of the 11 Army of the Wehrmacht against the Crimean Front of the Red Army), the main forces of the 22 Panzer Division were transferred to the Donbass, but one battalion was left to support the infantry. Also, two battalions of assault guns took part in the last assault on Sevastopol. The LIVth Army Corps (20, 24, 50 and 132 Infantry Divisions), XXX Corps (28-th Chasseurs, 72-I and 170-I Infantry Divisions) participated in the operation to capture Sevastopol, Romanian Mountain Rifle Corps (1-I and 4-I Mountain Division, 18-I Infantry Division). All in all, Manstein had over 200 thousand people.

If in the liquidation operation of the Soviet Crimean Front the 22-I tank division was the strongest argument of Manstein, then heavy artillery played the most important role in the storming of Sevastopol. The most powerful tools of the Third Reich were brought to Sevastopol: the super-heavy 420-mm howitzer “Gamma” (Gamma Mörser), the 600-mm mortars “One” and “Thor”, and the heavy howitzers 300 and 350 mm were used. Near Sevastopol, for the first time, the unique superheavy railway 1350-ton and 807-mm Dora gun was used. This gun served and guarded up to 4 thousand people. In total, Manstein had 80 heavy and super heavy batteries, 60 light and 24 rocket mortar batteries (approximately, 670 field and siege guns, 655 anti-tank guns, 720 mortars). The rocket launcher batteries were combined into the 1 heavy rocket launcher regiment (21 battery with 576 launchers of the 280-320 caliber mm), 7-y regiment and 1-nd and 4 battalions of the rocket launchers.


Construction of a firing position for the German super-heavy 800-mm gun "Dora" near Bakhchisarai. For the firing position of a giant 1350-ton gun, dual railway tracks were required with two additional branches for mounting cranes. For engineering position training, 1000 deminers and 1500 workers, mobilized from among local residents, were assigned.

The German Dora super-heavy gun (caliber 800 mm, weight 1350 tons) at a position near Bakhchisarai.

In addition, for the decisive assault on the city, the 8th was returned to Crimea aviation corps under the command of Wolfram von Richthofen. Manstein had up to 1000 aircraft under his command, the city was subjected to massive bombardments: on average, German air force planes flew 600 sorties a day. About 2,5 thousand tons of high-explosive bombs, including large-caliber ones, were dropped on Sevastopol. The actions of artillery and aviation, combined with the tactics of assault groups, inevitably led to a slow but sure hacking of the city’s defense system. The operation to capture the city received the code name "Sturgeon Fishing".

Start of operation

As early as May 20, the day after the completion of the operation to defeat the Crimean Front, the Germans began a preparatory artillery shelling of the Soviet positions. 2 June 1942 began full artillery and aviation training. She lasted five days. The Germans could afford such a long preparation. If at the front a long artillery preparation indicated the probable place of a front breakthrough and the defending side could transfer additional forces to this area, then the command of the Sevastopol garrison did not have such an opportunity. The defenders under the bombs and shells of the enemy could only, to the best of their ability, restore the destroyed defense.

The main purpose of the German heavy artillery during this period was the 30-i coastal battery with four 305-mm guns (armored battery-30 or fort "Maxim Gorky-1"). It must be said that the largest weapons that defenders of Sevastopol could oppose to the enemy were 4 revolving armored towers with two 305-mm guns in each (as part of the 30 and 35-th coastal batteries). The battery-30 was located near the village of Lyubimovka, at the mouth of the r. Belbek, and the battery-35 (German designation - the fort "Maxim Gorky 2") - in the vicinity of Cape Chersonese. The dominance over the surrounding territory provided the round-robin armored towers, they were turned to 360 degrees. The maximum range of firing guns was up to 42 kilometers. Both batteries were originally built as coastal, i.e. they were designed to fight the ships of the enemy’s Navy, to protect the Black Sea Fleet base from the sea. However, when the Wehrmacht 1941 broke into the Crimean Peninsula in October, the coastal batteries became the main caliber of the defense of Sevastopol from land. Considering the fact that the 35 battery was located farther from the German main strike area, the most prominent role in the defense of Sevastopol was destined to play the “Maxim Gorky-I” fort under the command of Major George Alexandrovich Alexander. The German command and engineers believed that the Maxim Gorky-I fort was "a true masterpiece of engineering art", therefore they paid great attention to its destruction. The positions of the batteries were subjected to continuous air strikes and shelling from super-heavy and heavy guns. At the end of May, the 600-mm “One” and “Thor” were pulled over a distance of 3,5 km to the 30-th battery. In the first five days of artillery preparation, they fired 18 shells. 5 June 1942 of the Fort Maxim Gorky-I produced seven 7-ton concrete-borne projectiles from Dora 800-mm. But none of them hit the mark. Battery shot their last 18 June shells.


In the contingent tower tower battery number 30: battery commander captain G. A. Alexander (left) and battery commissar senior politruk E. K. Solovyov. 1941 year.


The heroic defense of Sevastopol 30 October 1941 g. - 4 July 1942 g.

To be continued ...
Feat of Sevastopol

Year: 1971.
Country: USSR.
Genre: Chronicle-documentary.
Duration: 00: 58: 26.
Director: Dmitry Rymarev.
A film about the defense and liberation of Sevastopol in the Second World War with a unique trophy German and Soviet chronicles 1941-44.

Author:
56 comments
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  1. Deniska999
    Deniska999 7 July 2012 09: 28
    +15
    Memory of the heroes. Memory for the defenders.
  2. Shohmansur
    Shohmansur 7 July 2012 10: 18
    +10
    Near Sevastopol, the Fritz learned what the Marine Corps is. The Germans were afraid of the black death and were very much afraid.
    1. Rikoshet
      Rikoshet 7 July 2012 14: 02
      -15
      Enough of us to propagate feed-marine corps-cannon fodder against martial art. We also need to remember the names of morons who mined all the approaches from the sea with mines and therefore they couldn’t deliver shells themselves or take people out later. The law of the Council of Deputies is to create artificial difficulties, and then heroically (better by the lives of ordinary Russians) to overcome them.
      The Germans even near Kerch butchered the haters to the nines, and even so, the Suvorovs and Ushakovs in the Russian land were translated by that time! Fought by number, not skill!
      1. Ilhar
        Ilhar 7 July 2012 17: 03
        +7
        I completely agree with you that Oktyabrsky and the company strongly had a hand in the surrender of Sevastopol to the Germans in 1942. But Sevastopol was released within one month, during the Crimean operation of the Soviet Army. And the Germans could not take him 250 days. This is about military art.
        1. loc.bejenari
          loc.bejenari 7 July 2012 22: 12
          +4
          there are different reasons - why did ours last so long and why were so few Germans
          the Germans held Sevastopol in general was pointless - for them, he in 44 did not play any role
          they kept him as much as it took to evacuate his troops — which our valiant fleet, headed by Oktyabrsky (it would be better if he remained Ivanov), prevented and did not try
          the same and the valiant Stalinist falcons - although the Romanian civilian fleet mainly took part in the evacuation
          honestly-just insulting-what mediocrity were in power
          these evacuated Germans then went into battle against us, but could already have fed the Black Sea fish in May
          despite the fact that the Germans could not cover anything with aviation
          those troops — that were captured — it was mainly the cover troops that provided the evacuation
          would have waited our weeks 2-the Germans themselves would have cleared Sevastopol and it would not have been necessary to lay down our soldiers
          and indeed the whole Crimean operation is an example of strategic mediocrity
          all these troops had to be thrown to the direction of Odessa nicholas chisinau and not messing around in the Crimea
          Germans would be sitting in Crimea - and what would they do there - locked up on the isthmus of Perekop
      2. rexby63
        rexby63 7 July 2012 20: 00
        +1
        Read calmly the "honest" memoirs of the "ordinary infantryman" G. Biderman and do not deny yourself anything
      3. smile
        smile 7 July 2012 20: 39
        +6
        Rikoshet
        Enough of picking new sensations out of your nose! The only thing that is true in your words is that. that at that time we really fought worse ... already, unlike 41 not so much .... but the times of easy victories for the Wehrmacht passed, and soon we drove them ... not by number, but by skill! By the way, even in 41 our troops fought several orders of magnitude more skillfully and successfully (I can’t even say boldly) than all Europeans put together .... Europeans at the very end of the war were unable both in terms of the operational and strategic capabilities of their command, and according to the combat qualities of the army, even get to our level of 41 years. So, do not howl your favorite song!
        1. Rikoshet
          Rikoshet 9 July 2012 09: 37
          0
          Are you by any chance a former political instructor? And then it’s so zealous for you to get a shout-type, because that’s why it should be so! Or, as commies, I don’t believe it, that’s why this cannot happen (specify, otherwise I already forgot these moronic propaganda slogans)
      4. Starcom1183
        Starcom1183 8 July 2012 17: 50
        -2
        quote from a fool who does not know history)))
  3. Spartak
    Spartak 7 July 2012 10: 54
    +5
    After reading the title of the article, the words came to mind immediately - they fell but rose !!!
  4. Brother Sarych
    Brother Sarych 7 July 2012 11: 24
    +1
    It’s a very sad story, but do not read the following material at all - everything will be very bad ...
  5. solvent
    solvent 7 July 2012 11: 54
    +3
    Author, why call the 365th ZB the enemy's nickname "Fort Stalin", and the 30th and 35th BB the forts "Maxim Gorky" ???
    Be a historian, sh * t (C)! Not a blogger ...
    The mention of these "names" in the material suggests that instead of historical research, you are engaged in profanation of events.

    ps and we were taught at school, and we read books not about "forts", but about the exploits of the fighters 35BB, 30BB, etc.
    1. Rodver
      Rodver 7 July 2012 13: 11
      +10
      Well written, truthful and detailed. And the "enemy nicknames" of Soviet positions are specific designations of the most violent points of the battles for Sevastopol, adopted by both the military and historians (albeit already post-Soviet). But what needs to be highlighted is the shameful flight at the end of June from Sevastopol on airplanes, boats and submarines, the so-called "most responsible workers" - top military and party leaders, security officers, officials and functionaries, headed by the commander of the Sevastopol defense himself - the admiral Oktyabrsky. Against the background of heroically fighting soldiers, sailors and officers - this was a glaring fact tantamount to betrayal. In the First Defense of Sevastopol in 1854-1855, all the Russian army - soldiers, sailors, officers, and admirals - no one left each other, all fought to the end and no one left their comrades.
  6. loc.bejenari
    loc.bejenari 7 July 2012 15: 51
    +9
    15 times was in Sevastopol and as a child he climbed all the battlefields
    Fort, of course, the big name that the Germans gave
    really there are only 2 batteries corresponded to fortified forts
    the rest - field constructions or adapted old batteries of the Shishkov fort type - former batteries 24 and 16 with weapons removed in the 20th
    Fort Shishkova - a place - where it is really visible - what is a massive shelling for 3 days (while people were not holding it)
    there is no living space on the walls and 37mm armor-piercing shells stick out of the walls
    last year I was at Fort Volga - this is of course tin-but tibia and costal bones lie on the ground whitened from the sun - this is a simple field fortification from the time of the Crimean War
    Fort Stalin nearby a few hundred meters
    there are 41 fierce battles in December - and the fort consists of an underground shelter and several concrete platforms for anti-aircraft guns
    I honestly don’t understand. HOW the Germans couldn’t take it then. There are no special protective structures.
    yes there were a lot of pillboxes with guns equipped in rocky ground
    all over the Sora (Sevastopol fortified area) -but all the so-called forts are just defense nodes -there is nothing special
    was in Mikhailovsky Fort —there is now the Sheremetev Museum —there are traces of 105 mm FN shelling — by the way the photo was on the site — the shells exploded in front of the stairs and the whole stairway got fragments through the window — there couldn’t survive anything alive
    Bill on the 25th mortar battery - there just raised 8 defenders lying under a meter of land for 69 years
    there, too, everything is crooked by bullets and shells
    In general, Sevastopol is an example of not only heroism, namely fighting spirit and staunchness of a soldier when he knows that there is nowhere to retreat from behind.
    comparing with 41 with Kiev -when from similar (and in the general mass-more than capital constructions-in Sevastopol they weren’t completely concrete and reinforced concrete - reinforced concrete constructions from precast concrete rather than solid castings -) our troops simply escaped
    Well, what happened already at the end of the defense - you can’t call anything else a disgrace to our system –– when they were just stupidly left to die –– escaping by submarines and boats
    Well, about the NFZ -can you scold me -but the Germans and Romanians during the assault on Sevastopol also showed high morale and skill -to overcome such a stronghold with equal strength troops, is simply unrealistic
    1. rexby63
      rexby63 7 July 2012 20: 06
      +4
      And I was recently in the 5th fort of Koenigsberg and also could not understand how ours could take it literally within five days. But Königberg was taken by my grandfather and I considered him a simple person all my life. However, the capture of such structures as Fort No. 5 is only possible for HEROES and TITANS
      1. smile
        smile 7 July 2012 20: 54
        +1
        rexby63
        Imagine how many of these forts are in Kaliningrad! And all of them took during a three-day continuous assault! With losses less than that of the Germans. By the way, the number of personnel. the opposing sides was approximately equal (with a slight advantage in our favor), but the number of units that directly entered into combat contact and ensured the capture of Koenigsberg and the destruction and capture of the garrison was several times less than the attacked Germans. That’s what it means to learn how to fight .... and it’s just that we’re decreasing, not number. A three-day assault - and all the main resistance nodes and territory are captured. Lyash - the commandant of the garrison - is sitting in his dugout (there is now a museum), completely losing contact and managing the scattered and blocked remnants of the garrison. A curtain!
      2. alexng
        alexng 8 July 2012 20: 24
        +2
        I also recently visited Kaliningrad, more precisely in May, and in June in Sevastopol, and saw this fort No.5 of Könisberg. Photo attached. Yes, you need to take such a building military skill. And look downplay the role of the defense of Sevastopol, only the current information warriors with a yellow-blue flag.
    2. smile
      smile 7 July 2012 20: 45
      0
      loc.bejenari
      Well. you can write the truth! Pancake. always like that! By the way, no one in the Wehrmacht, who trampled in a matter of days all the most powerful armies in Europe, did not refuse courage and fighting qualities! Romanians, too, were not kids, as it seems to someone, though worse than ours .....
  7. Hairy Siberian
    Hairy Siberian 7 July 2012 15: 52
    +4
    Eternal glory to the heroes and defenders!
    Battery No. 30:
    1. Simon
      Simon 8 July 2012 19: 53
      +1
      Heroic, invincible beauty who resisted the German monsters and did not surrender to them. Eternal glory and memory to the heroes of Sevastopol.
  8. Vadzja
    Vadzja 7 July 2012 17: 49
    +8
    European countries surrendered in a matter of days, and our cities stood and fought for months. Eternal glory and memory to Russian soldiers!
  9. MI-AS-72
    MI-AS-72 7 July 2012 18: 15
    0
    Quote: Rodver
    the so-called "most responsible workers" - the highest military and party leaders, security officers, officials and functionaries, headed by the commander of the Sevastopol defense - Admiral Oktyabrsky.

    "The situation was difficult then. Sevastopol was blocked from land, air and sea. At the end of June, with the help of air forces, the blockade reached its highest limit. Even submarines were not able to reach the coast of Sevastopol, and there was no need to talk about reaching them by surface ships. In these conditions, the question arose, what to do? If the army was evacuated, then the army and the navy would be lost, which turned out to be greatly understated due to losses in battles. Ultimately, the army was lost, but the fleet was saved. "(C)
    Perhaps you can’t say more clearly why the defenders of Sevastopol were captured by the Germans.
    This is the ruthless logic of war.
    As for the "responsible workers", look at the materials, they fought everyone, but they took out almost all the pilots and ordinary commanders.

    At 9.00:30 a.m. on June 1942, XNUMX, a telegram was sent signed by Oktyabrsky and Kulakov, which was not known to other members of the senior management of the SoR until the last meeting of the Fleet Military Council. Here is her text:
    “The enemy broke through from the North side to the Ship side. The fighting took place in the nature of street fighting. The remaining troops are tired (flinch), although most continue to fight heroically. The enemy intensified the pressure with aircraft and tanks. Given the strong decrease in firepower, we must assume that in this position we will hold a maximum of 2-3 days. Based on this specific situation, I ask you to allow me to take 30-1 senior officials, commanders to the Caucasus, and also, if I can, leave Sevastopol myself, leaving my deputy Major General Petrov here on the night of June 200 to July 500 ” 3.
    “About this telegram, wrote N.G. Kuznetsov, they reported to me at 14.00:30 on June 16.00. The army command in Krasnodar was still painfully experiencing the recent disaster on the Kerch Peninsula. I thought that the Commander-in-Chief of the line was unlikely to make a decision without requesting a Bet. There was no time left for coordination and requests. It was clear Sevastopol would have to leave. Therefore, not yet having the consent of the Headquarters, I ordered the immediate reply to Vice Admiral F.S. Oktyabrsky: "The People's Commissar fully supports your proposal." Talking over the phone with Stalin, at XNUMX I sent a second telegram to the Military Council of the Black Sea Fleet: “The evacuation of senior officials and your departure are permitted.
    Thus, on June 30, the Stavka decided to leave the city. My immediate agreement with the proposal of the military council of the fleet was explained not only by the situation, but also by the fact that he wanted to leave Sevastopol to lead the defense of Major General Petrov with his headquarters, which could lead the defense until the last moment. "
    Marshal of the Soviet Union Budyonny, in turn, reported to Stavka that “the Sevastopol defensive area has no longer been prepared with prepared lines. The fighting efficiency of the troops as a result of fatigue decreased, the command of the North Caucasus Front cannot provide ambulance to the defenders of Sevastopol from the sea and from the air. All ships in Sevastopol break through with battle. Over the past 5–4 days, the Shch-214 and S-52 submarines, the destroyer Impeccable, were sunk, the leader of Tashkent was badly damaged.
    Yes, a tragedy occurred, and it is not for us to judge them, then there was Victory, which means they were right.
  10. 8 company
    8 company 7 July 2012 18: 22
    -1
    In fact, the case was decided by the German aviation, which did not allow deliveries of supplies. But where did the Soviet aces - the Heroes of the Soviet Union, who beat the Germans with the Italians in Spain, and the Japanese in Mongolia - Smushkevich, Rychagov, Proskurov and many others? They were shot as "enemies of the people". It would be better if they bombed the real enemies of the people who have settled in the Kremlin; you look, and the Germans would not have reached the Crimea.
    1. loc.bejenari
      loc.bejenari 7 July 2012 18: 31
      +4
      Well, as for the aces, I do not agree - there it was simply impossible to cover the entire route of the ships
      our clever men from the fleet tried their best to mine their own supply routes — eventually leaving narrow fairways and lost a quarter of the sunken ships on their own mines
    2. smile
      smile 7 July 2012 21: 03
      +4
      8 company
      And how many aces were repressed .... let's not ... maybe you better remember what our aces beat them then? Remember that the Messerschmitts appeared only at the end of the Spanish Civil War ... can you remember the modification? You probably know when the Germans appeared Emily and Friedrich, you're smart! So why are you silent? And our aces even on donkeys managed to beat German fighters, surpassing them totally, in all respects, with the exception of horizontal maneuverability .... if you don’t know, you can easily find it if you wish, there would be a desire - you have more than enough reason! ... Do not be offended ....
      1. 8 company
        8 company 7 July 2012 22: 33
        0
        Quote: smile
        So why are you silent? And our aces even on donkeys managed to beat German fighters, surpassing them totally, in all respects


        So I'm talking about it, like. They beat the "Messers" and on "donkeys", and the Italians in Spain staged a uniform air pogrom. Now try to find a Soviet pilot who fought in Spain, who was not shot and who fought in WWII.
        1. Brother Sarych
          Brother Sarych 7 July 2012 23: 00
          +2
          Why write nonsense?
          Firstly, they did not really beat the messengers, they beat their predecessors, yes, with the messers it did not work out that way, unfortunately, secondly, there was a reason to shoot Smushkevich and Rychagov - a good pilot is not necessarily a good manager, but firewood they broke up above the roof, thirdly, after Spain there was Khalkhin-Gol, it was Finnish, the pilots did not live very long at that time, so no one thought to shoot deliberately "Spanish veterans" ...
          1. 8 company
            8 company 7 July 2012 23: 26
            +1
            Quote: Brother Sarich
            no one thought to shoot deliberately the "veterans of the Spanish" ...


            You write absolute nonsense. As part of a general sweep, foreigners and everyone who had been abroad were deliberately exterminated. The "Spaniards" also got here, and not only pilots, but everyone. Few survived. As for the shooting of "not very good managers": you personally have probably messed up a lot in life, so why don't you shoot yourself, don't strain anyone. If you are a principled person, of course, you are responsible for your words and views.
            1. Brother Sarych
              Brother Sarych 8 July 2012 08: 32
              +2
              The lives and destinies of people did not depend on my shoals, I was not destined to ruin the assigned work, I usually created something or tried to create, therefore, life as a punishment for my sins was limited to lost money (as some say, "not counting", of course ), figuratively speaking with bumps and cuffs, basically, what will happen next - we'll see ...
              1. 8 company
                8 company 8 July 2012 12: 21
                -2
                Quote: Brother Sarich
                From my shoals of life and the fate of people did not depend


                Well, why did you jump so abruptly? But what about the peasants, who were shot in 1937 by order of 00447 NKVD, as former kulaks and former members of kulak families? These are not pilots who can accidentally dive at Stalin, not military leaders capable of organizing a military coup, not cocky poets who wrote about the "Kremlin mountaineer". They just plowed and sowed. In short, wait, they will come for you and you will be during interrogations, smearing bloody snot, shouting: "I am mine! I am mine! Why ?????? !!!!!!!!!"
                1. Brother Sarych
                  Brother Sarych 8 July 2012 15: 36
                  0
                  Who jumped off and where? What kind of peasants who were shot by some order? Have you read the memorial? I followed those links - everything there is too ambiguous, the times of "perestroika" are not in the yard for a long time, to throw at all sorts of crap ...
                2. erkenegon
                  erkenegon 9 July 2012 17: 17
                  0
                  I fully support you
            2. Starcom1183
              Starcom1183 8 July 2012 17: 58
              -1
              And in my opinion you are talking nonsense!
        2. rexby63
          rexby63 7 July 2012 23: 24
          +6
          Gritsevets Sergey Ivanovich
          Lakeev Ivan Alekseevich
          Akulenko Prokopiy Semenovich
          Stepanov Andrey Mikhailovich Died 15.04.1942/XNUMX/XNUMX
          Stepanov Evgeny Nikolaevich
          Eremenko Ivan Trofimovich
          Denisov Sergey Prokofievich
          Zakharov George Nefedovich
          Sokolov Ivan Vasilievich
          Glushenkov Nikifor Emanuilovich
          Zaitsev Alexander Andreevich
          Lozychenko Alexander Gavrilovich.
          Lisin Vasily Timofeevich
          Chernykh Sergey Alexandrovich
          Fedoseev Mikhail Andreevich
          Shubikov Arseniy Vasilievich
          Semenov Nikolay Vasilievich
          Bashmakov Peter Dmitrievich
          Denisov Alexey Alexandrovich
          Korobkov Pavel Terentyevich
          Shmelkov Nikolay Ivanovich
          Kondrat Emelyan Filaretovich
          Smolyakov Platon Efimovich
          Starikov Alexey Georgievich
          Syusyukalov Nikita Timofeevich
          Emelianenko Mikhail Ivanovich
          Zhuravlev Nikolay Pavlovich
          Morozov Andrey Mikhailovich
          Khomyakov Valentin Ivanovich
          Ozheredov Pavel Ivanovich
          Vikhrov Timofey Egorovich
          Ivanov Nikolay Semenovich
          Putivko Pavel Ilyich
          Pumpur Pyotr Ivanovich
          Rybkin Leonid Grigorievich
          Kirillov Alexander Ivanovich
          Shevtsov Peter Fedorovich
          Semenko Victor Mikhailovich
          Ukhov Valentin Petrovich
          Pletyukhin Alexander Vladimirovich
          Serenko Alexander Vasilievich
          Polyakov Pavel Vasilievich
          Semenov Alexander Fedorovich
          Nedelin Peter Ivanovich
          Zherdev Nikolay Prokofievich
          Shestakov Lev Lvovich
          Ketov Alexander Ivanovich
          Popov Vyacheslav Dmitrievich
          Lebanese Nikifor Ulyanovich
          Minaev Alexey Vasilievich
          Sukhorjabov Vladimir Vikentievich
          Masters Georgy Alekseevich
          Volkov Vladimir Stepanovich
          Kapustin Joseph Egorovich
          Fedorov Ivan Evgrafovich
          Bykovsky Sergey Dmitrievich
          Evtikhov Semyon Alekseevich.
          Bagrov Vasily Vasilievich
          Mishchenko Joseph Pavlovich
          Kachan Georgy Dmitrievich
          Prutskov Fedor Maksimovich
          Hotelev Joseph Sidorovich
          Godunov Victor Alexandrovich
          Onishchenko Mikhail Vasilievich
          Matveev Vasily Ivanovich
          Mikhailov Vasily Ivanovich
          Osipov Alexander Alexandrovich
          Zhuravlev Nikolai Ivanovich
          Ryazanov Andrey Matveevich
          Shipitov Yakov Vasilievich
          Vinogradov Nikolay Sergeevich
          Zubarev Ivan Ivanovich
          Filippchenko Fedor Vasilievich
          Takhtarov Boris Adil-Gireevich
          Fomin Nikolay Yakovlevich
          Zubarev Sergey Pavlovich
          Ilyin Alexander Vasilievich
          Sapronov Mikhail Semenovich
          Sviridov Arkady Konstantinovich
          Silvestrov Anatoly Aleksandrovich
          Kravchenko Vyacheslav Mikhailovich
          Okolelov Yakov Kharlampievich
          Shalyganov Sergey Vasilievich
          Desnitsky Peter Pavlovich
          Yamanov Valerian Alexandrovich
          Ivanov Pyotr Mikheevich
          Panov Aleksey Borisovich
          Turov Alexander Grigorievich
          Prokopenko Georgy Nikolaevich
          Khlusovich Ivan Mikhailovich
          Polyansky Vladimir Ivanovich
          Antonets Pavel Andreevich
          Kogrushev Grigory Alexandrovich http://airaces.narod.ru/spane/spane.htm

          And now about those for whom you, "the most honest of the most honest," are shedding crocodile tears: On the very first day of the war, Soviet aviation suffered heavy losses, the ZAPOVO Air Force suffered especially badly. Upon learning of what had happened, Ivan Ivanovich Kopets shot himself. On the first day of the war, the 9th SAD lost 347 out of 409 aircraft. Its commander, Major General SA Chernykh, was arrested and on July 27, in front of the division's formation, was shot. On June 23-24, 1941 P.V. Rychagov, E.S.Ptukhin, and Ya.V. Smushkevich were arrested. All of them were shot after some time. Most of the "Spaniards" veterans who were in the ranks of the Soviet Air Force, whose biographies could be traced, actively and successfully fought with the enemy throughout the war. The names of such commanders as Lev Shestakov, Georgy Zakharov, Alexander Semenov, Alexei Panov are well known, who successfully coped with their duties. Most of the "Spaniards" commanded fighter units, although there were exceptions: Sergei Polyakov, for example, led an assault regiment on the Il-2.
          http://www.aviac.ru/skyspain36-39/126-sudby-letchikov-sssr-voevavshix-v-ispanii.


          html
          And about your lies - maybe you should heal?
          1. 8 company
            8 company 7 July 2012 23: 40
            -3
            Quote: rexby63
            And about your lies - maybe you should heal?


            I agree, I was mistaken, instead of "few survived" I should have used "2/3 survived". I sprinkle ashes on my head. I am glad for you, I am not often caught making mistakes, you have something to be proud of. At the same time, take pride in how smoothly the Soviet NKVD worked by shooting 1/3 of the "Spaniards" pilots. And thanks for the info, by the way.
            1. rexby63
              rexby63 8 July 2012 09: 17
              +3
              Looking around, I am convinced that the NKVD apparatus worked poorly
              1. 8 company
                8 company 8 July 2012 09: 55
                -3
                Quote: rexby63
                Looking around, I am convinced that the NKVD apparatus worked poorly


                Be careful: it is possible that someone looking at you also thinks that the NKVD apparatus worked poorly.
                1. rexby63
                  rexby63 8 July 2012 15: 01
                  +2
                  Not excluded. Only I have nothing to fear. I live in an area that previously served as a place for exile of all Solzhenitsyn and other dispersal. I work at the rig. Your idol would have run away from such a job for a long time or signed up for My sons from the army did not mow. What was seen in reprehensible, so it foolishly stuck out on August 20 of the 91st near the database.
                  1. 8 company
                    8 company 8 July 2012 15: 11
                    -4
                    Quote: rexby63
                    Only I have nothing to fear. I live in an area that previously served as a place for exile of all Solzhenitsyn and other dispersal. I work at the rig.


                    Well, you shouldn't be so careless. Former "kulaks" and "podkulachniki" who were seized in 1937 also thought that if they had already been robbed in 1930, then that was it. It turned out that EVERYTHING is still ahead. I hope you don't have accidents there, otherwise sabotage will be sewn on, and - ... The crowns are expensive, but you break them ... It is possible, on purpose ...
                    1. rexby63
                      rexby63 11 July 2012 15: 15
                      +1
                      Well, they will sew, and then what? A few years ago I had to work for an organization that supplied sawmill equipment to the zones. So I will tell you that we should live the way these prisoners live. In our country, these idlers have never lived as badly as they themselves talk about it. I know firsthand about the work at the logging site, about which the snitch Shurik Solzhenitsyn spoke with horror. All this riff-raff, who overnight from warm Moscow apartments in 37th to the cutting area, was of course shocked, but my parents, who had worked in the forest all their lives, treated the lumberjack profession like any other. Which is what I advise you.
                      We do not have crowns, but cones
          2. Brother Sarych
            Brother Sarych 8 July 2012 08: 36
            +2
            Googled and came across:

            Vladimir Bobrov is one of the best Soviet fighter pilots who shot down 67 enemy aircraft in two wars, but for some unknown reason he never became a Hero of the Soviet Union during his lifetime.

            Born July 11, 1915 in the city of Lugansk, in a working class family. He graduated from the 7th grade of a junior high school, and in November 1936 - the Lugansk Military Aviation Pilot School.

            Member of the national liberation war of the Spanish people of 1936 - 1939. He made more than 100 sorties, in air battles he personally shot down 13 rebel aircraft and destroyed 4 in the group.

            Member of World War II from the first day. He made 451 sorties, in 112 air battles he personally shot down 30 and in a group of 20 enemy aircraft.

            And there are still many who can fight worthily after the Spanish ...

            I see that forum participants from Belarus clearly suffer from anti-Stalinism paranoia of varying severity and are not really able to perceive the situation ...
            1. rexby63
              rexby63 8 July 2012 09: 22
              +3
              March 20, 1991 posthumously awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union.
            2. 8 company
              8 company 8 July 2012 10: 10
              -3
              Quote: Brother Sarich
              I see that forum participants from Belarus clearly suffer from anti-Stalinism paranoia of varying severity and are not really able to perceive the situation ...


              I see that the Stalinists absolutely sided with the number of people who fought with dignity before the Second World War, and killed mainly 4 years before the Second World War. Just think, a third of the "Spaniards" pilots were shot, almost the entire top commanding staff of the army, many weapons designers and engineers of defense plants - only at GAZ in six months 400 engineers were killed. After all, these are such "trifles" in comparison with the presence of a "genius leader" with his "super effective" control system, which made it possible to retreat to Leningrad, Moscow, Stalingrad, Maikop. And of course, Stalinism is not paranoia, not a disease, it is such a special state of mind that cannot be healed.
              1. Brother Sarych
                Brother Sarych 8 July 2012 10: 46
                +1
                Firstly, I don’t consider myself a Stalinist and there wasn’t a particularly effective management system, although compared to the present it was a masterpiece of perfection ...
                Secondly, are you not tired of stupidly repeating this gum? What third were shot? Why such a figure, why not half or three quarters, why be ashamed of something? What is almost the entire senior command staff? Maybe it's better to remember exactly who and why? And with constructors, too, "there are nuances", to put it mildly ..
                1. Akuzenka
                  Akuzenka 8 July 2012 16: 00
                  +2
                  Such types (8 companies) are well juggled with words, but when it comes to specific numbers and conditions, they are quickly blown away, because except moaning and sweeping accusations of all in everything, say nothing.
              2. Starcom1183
                Starcom1183 8 July 2012 18: 00
                +2
                in short supply, huh)))
              3. erkenegon
                erkenegon 9 July 2012 17: 19
                0
                if it were not for Stalinism the Nazis would have wiped their nose in their own den
        3. smile
          smile 8 July 2012 02: 38
          +1
          8 company (
          I didn’t give you a minus (although this is garbage) ... but, the pilots who beat them there and were not subjected to repression are enough ... but, unfortunately ... because they fought on what is ... men like Safonov and Fedorov couldn’t live to win ... by the way, they didn’t forget who created the frames and conditions for their occurrence ...... but managed to be noted on the skin of the Luftwaffe .... to the fullest ..... not I idealize the Stalinist Armed Forces ... but the Stalinist system of economic management ..... including the production of new equipment, personnel training ... for all its inferiority in some places x, it has proved its effectiveness, only it required too much meat .... or it could not have been otherwise .... always for something important and good you have to pay a lot of money .... it’s far from idealizing who knows the mistakes — above the roof, and not only errors -0 miscalculations and crimes - but \, the alternative is what ......... I like you, although our opinions are sometimes polar ....... Good luck!
        4. smile
          smile 8 July 2012 05: 04
          0
          8 company
          No, unfortunately, we talk about different things ... units of aces were repressed ... most of them, including those with the experience of Spain, China and Mongolia, lay down in the fray with an enemy with technical and tactical superiority ... significant .... and it was they who provided the Luftwaffe according to our and German data (even the most cautious) -Do not read Pedevikia - I’m sure that everything is there again, as always_, the most significant average daily losses for the entire 2MB in the first two months of the Second World War ....
          By the way, if you can name the German who survived Spain and flew to the end of the Second World War - call .... although, of course, I understand that the issues are different ...
          1. 8 company
            8 company 8 July 2012 10: 12
            -1
            Quote: smile
            By the way, if you can name the German who survived Spain and flew to the end of the Second World War - call .... although, of course, I understand that the issues are different ...


            Let me ask myself: why write, if you understand?
            1. smile
              smile 8 July 2012 15: 20
              -1
              8 company
              Okay, caught, or rather, I caught myself :)))))) I repent .. :)))))
    3. Starcom1183
      Starcom1183 8 July 2012 17: 57
      0
      in the early days of the war, Soviet aviation lost up to 50% of aircraft. aces have nothing to do with
  11. suharev-52
    suharev-52 7 July 2012 18: 43
    +2
    Here is another proof of the deed of our fathers and grandfathers. Someone shouting that the price is too expensive. I will answer that for the freedom of the motherland, they do not set a price. Sincerely.
  12. Jib
    Jib 7 July 2012 19: 26
    +2
    Sevastopol is a city with a rich sometimes tragic history. The defense of Sevastopol 1941 - 1942 is a shame, it is an example of steadfastness and courage of the city defenders. Eternal memory to all the defenders of Sevastopol who took their last battle at the walls of this glorious city. Unfortunately, the third defense of Sevastopol is now underway.
    1. Cashpoint
      Cashpoint 7 July 2012 21: 31
      -2
      Quote: Kosatka
      Unfortunately, the third defense of Sevastopol is now underway.


      While he could not stand a single defense.
      1. Rikoshet
        Rikoshet 8 July 2012 04: 02
        -4
        This is the point !!!
        It falls under everyone, even against the blockblocks it could not resist, it was not for nothing that the Greeks abandoned this outback.
      2. Brother Sarych
        Brother Sarych 8 July 2012 10: 49
        0
        There were no fortresses yet. which they wouldn’t be able to take, but there are many who were glorified by their defense ...
        1. Cashpoint
          Cashpoint 8 July 2012 23: 37
          -1
          Well, for some reason, Leningrad and Stalingrad resisted ... Regarding the defense, out of 250 days of its defense, the Germans were engaged in the city of Sevastopol for 50 days, the rest of the time they were engaged in the Kerch group and the Crimea, and Sevastopol at that time was not stormed, but simply blocked. The heroism of ordinary doomed soldiers is trying to cover up the incompetence of the command, by the way, an interesting fact noticed by the Germans, when the commissar was killed, the resistance was less significant or stopped altogether, and they generally condemned the fact that the defenders blew up ammunition depots with civilians in the catacombs and considered it an inhumane fact of the actions of the commissars.
  13. Vlaleks48
    Vlaleks48 8 July 2012 18: 01
    0
    Glory to the defenders of Sevastopol!
    There are many, many flaws in the organization of the Red Army, this is the so-called territoriality and very weak discipline in the execution of orders and obvious harm to the "commissarism".
    But the retinue makes the king! And moaning "8 companies" about the monster bloodsucker and murderer Stalin
    paranoid.
    A fairly developed person had a failure - he personally determined for himself. Who is to blame! And atu him!
    My, I emphasize, my opinion, everything that has happened and is happening with today's betrayal of the interests of the Russian people, emerged at the end of the 19th century and then led to the "parhata of revolution" and further down the list.
    Glory to the defenders of the city-Hero of Sevastopol!
  14. Jib
    Jib 8 July 2012 19: 50
    +1
    Rikoshet,
    Hello dear. To my deep regret, the leadership of Russia handed over Sevastopol, and they continue to build it. I disagree with you. Sevastopol is not a backwater. This is the cradle of Russian Christianity, the Black Sea Fleet, Aviation, Military Field Surgery, etc., on this plentifully bloody patch of rocks and earth, noble and simple defenders of the city found glory and immortality. Seastopol. Sevastopol was made the "Ukrainian" city of Russian Glory. Unfortunately, most likely you have not been to Sevastopol. Let me be corrected if I'm wrong. Sevastopol is, first of all, a special minority of the people living here, Sevastopol residents, unfortunately, as elsewhere, it is slowly being destroyed. The Ukrainian authorities are trying to eradicate everything Russian here. There are a lot of examples. But all the same, there are people, there are many of them, who, without any help from the states of Russia, Ukraine, etc. With donations from the residents of Sevastopol and personal funds, two created (the only (unfortunately) on the territory of the former USSR) Museum Complex 35 COAST BATTERY. There will be an opportunity to visit there. Get tons of impressions. SEVASTOPOL DIDN'T LOOK FOR IT.
    1. Cashpoint
      Cashpoint 8 July 2012 23: 28
      -3
      Sevastopol, this is a real backwater, an ugly city, a killed infrastructure, many fleet retirees and therefore live a symbiosis of Soviet myths and about some imperial greatness 150 years ago, cities in central Ukraine are already much more developed about Western and there has always been no talk of Europe. In 10 years Sevastopol will be a poor depressed city, by the way there will be almost nothing left of the fleet there either. The truth must be faced, alas ...
      1. Jib
        Jib 9 July 2012 01: 00
        +2
        Sevastopol is a beautiful white-stone city,. Geographically and historically unique. For tattered dill. Sevastopol and the whole Crimea, as an undeserved prize. reward. You have never been to Sevastopol. With its history, past and present there are no comparisons, and analogues. And for a comfortable life and work in Sevastopol there are all conditions. The city in terms of housing construction and the development of infrastructure is the second after Kiev in Ukraine. Unfortunately, the Second World War left a very deep mark here. There are still a lot of places in the vicinity of the city and in Sevastopol itself, which indicate stubborn battles. The numbers speak of fierce battles. Only Germany recognized 82000 dead and wounded from wounds and diseases during the capture of the city, not counting the Romanians and Italians. And the future of the city, and in 100 years, will be wonderful thanks to its location and its history. Come see and relax. Water in the bays and on the beaches + 23, air + 28.
        1. Cashpoint
          Cashpoint 9 July 2012 08: 25
          0
          Yes, I was in this city a typical Russian town like Ryazan, only stretched out and with bald patches, say everything is super now, only now I went to the Yandex panoramas where the shooting was carried out recently - I confirm the miserable town. Maybe you should travel around the "battered dill", start with cities with the same number of people, maybe your eyes will open, for example Poltava, Sumy, Vvinnytsia, Ivano-Frankivsk. Regarding historical events, yes, there is something to see. About life? a fleet base is a fleet base. Do not tell about rest. Sevastopol is one of the last places where to go (only if you are a nostalgic ascetic). Although tourism could transform the city, but for this, as I understand it, the absence of a fleet base is needed.
          1. Alsa74
            Alsa74 9 July 2012 08: 51
            0
            Quote: CashPoint
            Yes, I was in this city

            Quote: CashPoint
            went to Yandex panoramas

            about how right now they judge the cities .... panama-Yandex-google ...
            so and I traveled all p3ndostan smile backyard of the world .... srach, dirt, and thick matrons ...
          2. viktorR
            viktorR 9 July 2012 17: 10
            0
            Quite decently, you can relax in the northern part. The water is clean, it looks like something like Satera (near Alushta). Just don’t tell us here how bad it is, and that yours is much better. You didn’t like Sevastopol only because you feel some kind of power in it, and don’t understand it and therefore you’re afraid, because you are more like “theirs” than “ours”)). Somehow it turned out pathetic) but it is. And they made fun of the panoramas))))
    2. Rikoshet
      Rikoshet 9 July 2012 09: 48
      0
      Killer whale, you are well done, you caught in my commentary, my pain for the fucking (out of my French) rulers who wrote their names in history with the blood of Russian people, and some on this forum prefer agitation-like "yes you are here ,,, ,, such and so on the army drive, on the officers, solbaniks, etc. and etc. ".
      I have been more than once in Sevastopol, the pain of how this city could and should be and what it is! My personal impression was there for the first time in 79 in all the sights and then several times, but so casually, and then in 2005 again in all the sights-one made an indelible impression — the asphalt on the Malakhov Hill-gravel protrudes from the asphalt-apparently from 79- years did not shift, that’s wiped out already. As he returned to childhood, nothing has changed, only everything has become older and more neglected. In secret, I’ll say, my wife is from Sevastopol. Unfortunately, I don’t have a single bit of compassion for the Ukrainization of Sevastopol. Transnistria is not a couple to Crimea. That's the only pride of Russia! Only there (it’s scary to even think about it) could the Russians stand up for themselves! Glory to the last Russian !!!!!
  15. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 8 July 2012 20: 47
    0
    Sevastopol for the last time surrendered Yeltsin and his hangers-on. They do not care about the city of Russian glory.
    1. Andrey77
      Andrey77 10 July 2012 17: 51
      0
      Maybe enough populism ?!
  16. panzersoldat
    panzersoldat 18 August 2012 14: 24
    0
    This summer I was in Sevastopol and had the opportunity to visit the battlefield. In abandoned bunkers
    garbage is lying around, the floor is dirty with bums, syringes are lying around here and there. A hefty battery of coastal guns is literally messed up by homeless people.