The first test of a "new" ground-based cruise missile - I blinded you from what was

92
The first test in the USA recently launched a sea-based test of the Tomahawk-style sea base from a landfill, declared "launch from a mobile platform", was an expected event. Unlike other types of rocket weapons of shorter and medium range, it would not be difficult for the Americans to transfer marine KR, albeit strictly non-nuclear (there is neither a corresponding modification, nor, especially, charges for it). The task of creating a self-propelled or towed mobile launcher for Americans is certainly within their power. But, looking at the photos and videos of this event, there is a feeling that it was expected much more than it turned out in reality.


San Nicholas Island and the location of test facilities on it





The test site itself


The launch was carried out from a site on the island of San Nicholas off the coast of California at a distance of just over 500 km and was declared successful, and, most likely, it was - the Tomahawk has been worked out for a long time. The launch was carried out from the site on which the development of a number of missile defense systems was carried out, in particular, the Israeli Hets-3 (Arrow-3) system. Someone after the test “made a discovery” that this site, from where it was launched, has existed since 2015, and that this indicates that the Americans are preparing to leave the INF Treaty and act after it from now on. No, because the site was built for another. And it’s not the site, but the launcher. If you can call it that.

Done on the knee


The Americans did not show any real mobile PU, they obviously just do not have it yet. They showed the launch of marine KR from the vertical module part naval PU Mk41 installed on a simple trailer, the appearance of which speaks of commercial use. It seems that this launcher just stands on the trailer, and nothing more. Of course, it was fixed there, nevertheless. It is impossible to use this artifact, cobbled together in haste according to the recipe of the famous song by Alena Apina, as a combat PU. This is not even a demonstrator of PU. This is a demonstrator of the possibility of launching from land, but who doubted this?



But on the other hand, they did not forget to hang the US flag, strongly reminding them of our feral Svidomo "non-brothers" from the territory of Ukraine. They, too, are very fond of “peremogi”, molded “of cones and acorns,” and they like to hide large-sized yellow-blakita panels with the wretchedness of what they pass off as “new” guided missiles, then as “anti-ship missiles”. So here - the flag was intended to smooth out the effect of the fact that, in fact, the Americans have nothing so far, except, of course, the most non-nuclear KR and the possibility of launching it from the UVP Mk41 and on land, which no one doubted. Even American experts immediately began to criticize the Pentagon for such a miserable demonstration.

No one was preparing?


Looking at this sad sight, I somehow do not believe in the stories of our Defense Ministry and the Foreign Ministry and even the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and the President of Russia that the Americans were preparing ahead of time to leave the INF Treaty. Maybe they prepared morally and politically, but not technically. Probably, the Pentagon and its contractors slept all this time in the shafts of the stables, or were busy with something else that they did not even work on creating a launcher for the long-standing KR. And they demanded from the White House to "do at least something and show the world", and so they "blinded from what was" in a hurry.

The Pentagon itself, in general, realizing how miserable it was that it showed, hastened to recover, that the system was "in the very initial stage of testing" and it would take "a lot of time" to refine it. The Americans will create the launch pad, of course, there is no doubt about it. The question is when.

Negative effect


At the same time, the Americans, in general, achieved a negative effect with this launch. In the very possibility for Tomahok to fly from land no one doubted how to take off from the MK41. And the evidence of this fact confirms the pros, but the cons begin.

Firstly, they are untying Russia's hands even more, and one should not be surprised if literally in a few days something of medium range flies with us, ballistic or winged. NOTAMs, published in the coming days, speak of probability as launching something intercontinental, but with a planning winged block on the Southern test route from Kapustin Yar to Sary-Shagan, something, possibly anti-ballistic, in the north (say, “Nudol” ), and something that, having studied NOTAM, can be mistaken for something of just medium range. But, in general, these are only assumptions. If it does not happen this time, soon it will definitely not matter.

Secondly, the Americans showed that on this subject "the horse did not roll," which is certainly bad. Although, on the other hand, it pours water on the mill of the American position - "we did not violate anything in the INF Treaty, unlike the Russians." Yes, they probably didn’t violate the truth in this matter, but violations were enough.

Thirdly, by launching a cruise missile from the MK41 land module, the Pentagon only confirmed the Russian propaganda thesis that the Tomahok missile launcher can be launched from the Aegis-Eshor missile defense system located in Eastern Europe. It is propagandistic because the placement of the whole 1-2 launchers there in 8-16 (if you throw out all the SM-3 missiles from it) of the KR in non-nuclear military equipment makes no sense. Yes, even in a stationary control room with absolutely zero security - the Americans were too lazy to even install them in-depth. But the United States denied that it was in these Mk41 modules that you could install Tomahoki, and now, it turns out, they caught themselves in a lie. Although, of course, they may declare that this is the “wrong” module that is based on missile defense bases, Russia will state the opposite, and so on.

Endless story


In general, everything is bad with this missile defense system. Take not Aegis Ashore, but the GMD system. As you know, the recently announced "ABM Policy Review" declared the additional deployment of 20 GBI missiles (in addition to 44), but with a new redesigned RKV interceptor. But recently appeared news - The RKV program, which took more than 1 billion dollars, was closed. There will be a new competition for a new interceptor. That is, everything turned out about the same as it was already. After all, the Americans had already planned to place new EKV interceptors on the first 44 GBI, then there were plans to create a shared warhead with multiple MKV interceptors - but all these plans were canceled in due time for various reasons. Of course, the money for the preliminary development went and went. Now it’s the turn of the RKV. And there, a new interceptor will be cut off in due time.

However, the Americans now also want a new missile defense system to replace the GBI, apparently realizing that they will not succeed in intercepting real missiles of intercontinental radius, even in greenhouse conditions. But how long does it take? Lot. And the result is not guaranteed. However, here, obviously, all interested parties are much more interested in the process than the result. It seems that with the epic around the INF, the process is also much more important than the case and the result. But for Russia, this is certainly good.
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  1. -3
    26 August 2019 03: 53
    Bluff, it’s also a bluff. Although here you can conduct anology with some products of our defense industry. The Club-K or Caliber-M types. The ability to install the MK-41 launcher on various mobile platforms is shown. But again, who would doubt it. In general Ponty, they are Ponte.
    1. +3
      26 August 2019 08: 57
      Firstly, they are untying Russia's hands even more, and one should not be surprised if literally in a few days something of medium range flies with us, ballistic or winged.

      It makes no sense to breed an arms race with such an economy. What is the ultimate goal? Who will win from this? If we are in the trash, then it will fly to us and vice versa. What is the victory then? Even in the powerful USSR, they realized the senselessness of the arms race after achieving nuclear parity.
      1. -2
        26 August 2019 11: 07
        Quote: Civil
        What is the ultimate goal?
        It is guaranteed and cheap to stop threats: solving the same problems by aviation is significantly more expensive (although aviation is more universal, there is no dispute) and it is not a fact that it will not be burned at the airfield. The solution of the same problems with the old missiles is no longer guaranteed: the air defense of the "partners" is developing and all sorts of Scuds have already been shot down.
        Quote: Civil
        What is the victory then?
        You can't kill more than 140 million in our country - there simply isn't any more, but they have corpses under a billion, maybe. Sturgeon, of course, needs to be cut 10 times, but it looks more prominent. Again, the zeroing of the industrial potential of Russia and NATO: the result seems to be the same, but the numbers "zeroed" differ significantly.
        1. +3
          26 August 2019 11: 34
          Quote: bk0010
          Guaranteed and cheap to stop threats

          Warranty here is a controversial thing. Cheapness is also a big question: the production of new missiles somewhere needs to be adjusted. And then, isn’t ICBMs enough for these purposes?

          Quote: bk0010
          We can’t kill more than 140 million - there’s simply no more, but they can have corpses worth a billion

          There is a persistent feeling that in the "everyone died" scenario, the specific number of "everyone" is not that interesting.

          Quote: bk0010
          zeroing the industrial potential of Russia and NATO

          Medium-range missiles from the territory of the Russian Federation to the industrial potential of NATO do not particularly reach.
          1. +1
            26 August 2019 11: 45
            Quote: Kalmar
            Cheapness is also a big question: the production of new missiles somewhere needs to be established
            The most expensive is industry, already there, thanks to the ancestors. We only pay for rockets.
            Quote: Kalmar
            And then, isn’t ICBMs enough for these purposes?
            The number of ICBMs is limited to START-3, Europe lies in a ballistic curve, and it is expensive to land ICBMs across Europe.
            Quote: Kalmar
            Medium-range missiles from the territory of the Russian Federation to the industrial potential of NATO do not particularly reach.
            You are confusing the industrial potential of the US and NATO. There is a lot of "tasty" things in Europe.
            1. +1
              26 August 2019 14: 30
              Quote: bk0010
              The most expensive is industry, already there, thanks to the ancestors.

              Alas, it is becoming obsolete. The freshest is already stepping over a 30-year milestone. And the arms race - it’s not for 15 minutes.

              Quote: bk0010
              Number of ICBMs limited by START-3

              Will nuclear missiles of medium-range missiles fall under him?

              Quote: bk0010
              Europe lies in a ballistic curve

              And what if from the Far East?

              Quote: bk0010
              and it’s expensive to land ICBMs across Europe

              It seems to me that in the context of the global nuclear paragraph, cost issues are no longer significant.

              Quote: bk0010
              There are a lot of "tasty" things in Europe.

              I do not argue, but is its share in the overall potential of NATO large? In the event of a global conflict, Europe in any case is a consumable, it is unlikely to rely heavily on it.
          2. +1
            26 August 2019 17: 44
            "Besides, isn't an ICBM not enough for these purposes?"
            MBR is not enough, and the charges, and ICBMs themselves must be waited for a few 2022, and dear ...
            "You can't reach NATO's industrial potential with medium-range missiles from the territory of the Russian Federation."
            Something you have with geography is not very - it’s exactly that easy and cheap to reach than with ICBMs, and you don’t need to consider charges ...
  2. +2
    26 August 2019 04: 00
    He is propagandistic because placing in the 1-2 launchers there as many as 8-16 (if you throw out all the SM-3 missiles from there) the KR in non-nuclear military equipment does not make any sense.


    Even if there are only 1-2 Mk.41 launchers at European missile defense facilities in Europe now, nothing prevents the United States from placing an additional 10-20-100 Mk.41 launchers there tomorrow, the territory of the missile defense bases and the United States has more than enough capabilities for this .
    And now they are enough for 1-2 PUs to keep calculations and bases in readiness.
    At NATO military bases near the borders of Russia, there are now also insignificant forces the size of a battalion brigade, but at the right time, these forces will increase tens of times both in people and in technology.
    1. +4
      26 August 2019 04: 51
      that doesn’t stop the United States from deploying an additional 10-20-100 missile launchers MK.41 tomorrow, the territory of missile defense bases and the United States has more than enough opportunities for this

      neither 10, nor 20, nor 100 land-based launchers, additionally located in Europe, have no meaning. Well, the only thing besides drank the budget and the development of the budget allocated for the military-industrial complex. MRBM like "Pershing II" - yes, it does, CD - no
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 15: 55
        MRBM like "Pershing II" - yes, it does, CD - no

        Of course, even if you place the tomahawks on the border of Ukraine and Russia, then they will fly to Moscow for more than half an hour, the United States and Europe will turn into ashes and they will all fly and fly .....
    2. +2
      26 August 2019 05: 20
      and what will it give? they will look at these PUs in all eyes 24 hours a day. as a counterweight in those areas, they will immediately strengthen air defense. make us invest in air defense more so-so task.
  3. +4
    26 August 2019 04: 13
    The Americans are playing a very dirty game. Perhaps they want to provoke us and keep us in suspense. They really liked the collapse of the union and the enslaving treaties signed by Gorbachev. Cheap, angry and without war. They will try to repeat this trick more than once, which means they will crush in every possible way.
    1. +3
      26 August 2019 12: 49
      Whatever one may say, but it is necessary to bring the launch points directly to the "exclusive" territory - Kamchatka, North. And increase the range of SD missiles to SD +, so that from the Conduct Bay or from about. Kotelnikov could fly to Fashington, NY and Florida. San Diego is already in a position to reach, but there is also a fist asking from a dozen naval bases.
      And whether we like it or not, and Barguzin will also have to be put on a track. This is now only against the United States, but in a dozen years, you never know how we will "make friends" with China? Additional 6-12-18 mobile and hard-to-cut launchers will not be superfluous. Moreover, the cost will not be very critical. Certainly not as the notorious aircraft carrier.
      Scythians, Gauges in Venezuela and Cuba are still fantastic.
      Although there is another question with the Scythians - maybe they lie somewhere deep, only here is how to transmit a signal to them ...
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 12: 54
        I totally agree.
  4. +15
    26 August 2019 05: 37
    The author has a strange logic. "White and fluffy" Americans "inadvertently" confirmed the "propaganda" thesis of the Russians ... Well, yes, well, yes. And nothing to prepare just such tests, with a launcher installed on a trailer, it is necessary to carry out a lot of in-depth calculations, but in order to carry them out "on the knee", one could simply install the launcher on a prepared site from the ground, removing the wheeled platform. It would be easier and safer. But no, they conducted them from a wheeled platform, which showed that the creation of a full-fledged mobile complex is a matter of a couple of months.
    The INF Treaty has lost its relevance for the United States with the withdrawal from the arena of military confrontation between the ATS and the USSR. An equal adversary has disappeared. But for the time being, the United States could afford not to notice this irrelevance. No one threatened the sole US hegemony in the world. Now China is rising in all, and it is he who, for the United States, is the main geopolitical adversary. That's when they remembered the interfering INF Treaty. And since it interferes, then it must be removed. The US found a reason and did it.
    But the fact that this was prepared in advance is not even a doubt. At 100%, I am sure that the options have been calculated and prepared for a long time. Trump simply turned out to be the most decisive and reckless of the current Presidents.
    1. +4
      26 August 2019 08: 48
      You are not quite right, it was much easier from the platform than from the ground, there was no need to build a launcher, they took a ready-made semi-trailer from a commercial trader, the calculations were minimal there, hooked a ready-made cell to it, connected the existing control module and go on, let it go from anywhere.
      1. +1
        26 August 2019 09: 32
        Quote: Avior
        hitched

        Not attached, but installed.
        Quote: Avior
        it was much easier from the platform than from the ground

        Now imagine that the platform has its own suspension system, which works under such dynamic loads, which can break, but the platform itself can simply break at the start ... It’s necessary to calculate all this.
        1. +1
          26 August 2019 10: 15
          . Not attached, but installed.

          In this case, it was attached at a level slightly higher than the Young Technician circle.
          And for unloading the springs, retractable bearings are used in such cases, to calculate a third-year student for two hours of work, taking into account the verification of the calculation.
          Such supports are used by both military and civilian- in cranes, for example, their finished wagon and trolley
          1. +1
            26 August 2019 10: 28
            Quote: Avior
            Such supports are used by both military and civilian- in cranes, for example, their finished wagon and trolley

            I agree, they are visible in the photo.
            Quote: Avior
            to calculate a third-year student for two hours of work, taking into account the verification of the calculation.

            Yeah, but how will they behave at the moment of dynamic loading, the density of the soil under them, then will the platform design itself withstand this blow?
            And most importantly, why so complicate it when it was just to clear the site for this launcher and install it there
            1. +1
              26 August 2019 10: 45
              It’s not only necessary to clear it, the beach is actually there, so it’s not a problem, it needs to be cast from concrete, and for this the project must be carried out, the same calculations.
              It is necessary to do on the spot, and not to carry assembly, which is more expensive.
              Supports have been used for rocket launches for a long time, there is a lot of experience, so no problem.
              Strength calculation for start-up is also simple.
              In addition, the mobile platform allows, if necessary, to transfer the launch site easily and without problems.
              1. +2
                26 August 2019 10: 54
                Quote: Avior
                it must be cast from concrete, and for this the project must be carried out, the same calculations.

                Take a look at the launch photo, everything is already there, including a flat concrete platform, above which this platform stands
                1. 0
                  26 August 2019 10: 59
                  You can’t put a cell on a simple concrete platform, for it you need a calculated foundation as the basis of the structure, and so we drove a trailer, lowered the supports and started.
                  You can continue to use it as a stand for launches with different polygons.
                  1. 0
                    26 August 2019 11: 10
                    Quote: Avior
                    and so drove the trailer, lowered the support, and start.

                    But it also needs to be calculated ... or is it alright? Yes, and the soil, too, under the supports must be calculated, so as not to swim at an unnecessary moment
                    1. 0
                      26 August 2019 11: 51
                      It is unlikely that we can find out why they made such a decision, not knowing all the circumstances.
                      It is clear that there are arguments for both decisions.
                      Perhaps they were guided by the fact that the launchers would be mobile, perhaps something else.
                      We can only say for sure that this has been done in haste and the combat launch will obviously look different
                      hi
                      1. +1
                        26 August 2019 13: 04
                        What are you talking about? This is not a serial launcher - to demonstrate the possibilities, it was only necessary to calculate the limiting-minimum parameters. And then - "the pipe is a little larger, the channel is a little thicker, the concrete is a little deeper." The main thing flew. Then the engineers will calculate, the designers will design.
                        The question is - what for did they need this all so urgently to launch?
                      2. 0
                        26 August 2019 14: 12
                        Symbolic act, show the seriousness of intent.
                    2. 0
                      27 August 2019 18: 26
                      also need to calculate ... or so it goes?
                      Yes. Dear Sergey, it may very well be. which is so.
                      the soil, too, under the supports must be calculated so that it would not float
                      you contradict yourself
                      Take a look at the launch photo, everything is already there, including a flat concrete platform,
                      Believe me, it’s not all that complicated and especially in such (even. Concrete) greenhouse conditions. Hets started there, and he certainly is not easier than Tomahawk.
                      We set UPA-80 for drilling (air wells with a diameter of 2 meters) where the weight of the "column" reaches 65 tons and no one is an engineer, believe me. and the platforms are sometimes so filled up. that the Urals are "sinking" (yes, the driver has gone to drink tea. He is returning, and the car "sits" on the bridges). So we make our dump from a half-meter mound on it 6 plates under the wheels and 4p 2 one on top of the other and 2-under them end-to-end at the back under the main triggers and on this we "push" the meter-high building level to help us and the plumb line of the hook block from the mast. So even if the column broke, when they accidentally got into the mine and 120 tons of load, the scales showed (we have a limit of 80 tons per minute), the installation did not fail. and those slabs are not new at all, rather the opposite. undoubtedly, the braces also do their job, but the slabs under the "jacks" carry the main load. plus the vibration ... the installation when passing the "slab" (solid stone - diabase) is so sausage - mom do not cry but tfu - tfu never anything and everything can be said "by eye" without any calculations. and this one I would have "put up" for one time in an hour.
          2. 0
            26 August 2019 18: 07
            Yes, they will not deploy ground launchers at all, they left the INF Treaty only to be able to deploy nuclear Tomahawks on ships: surface and submarines. From 4000 if there is 400 nuclear, the entire exit from the INF Treaty has paid off, why do they need ground ones, like targets for Russian Caliber?
            1. -1
              26 August 2019 18: 54
              Stationary ground installations for Tomahawks - this is nonsense, everyone will do mobile.
              But there are no nuclear Tomahawks with the United States, everything was destroyed under Obama, but no agreement forbade making new
              1. 0
                26 August 2019 19: 02
                Forbidden, the appendix to the INF Treaty in September 1991 forbade nuclear warheads to the Tomahawks (sea), read my articles in the military-industrial complex, everything is there on this topic.
                1. 0
                  26 August 2019 19: 13
                  Can you give a link to this application?
                  They agreed not to keep warheads on the NK, but the missiles themselves were not banned.
                2. 0
                  26 August 2019 19: 14
                  Quote: Sergey K
                  read my articles in the military-industrial complex, everything is there on this topic.

                  Number and year of release, please ... Interesting.
                  1. 0
                    26 August 2019 19: 20
                    Guys, do you think I remember the numbers?
                    1. 0
                      26 August 2019 19: 21
                      Quote: Sergey K
                      Guys, do you think I remember the numbers?

                      At least a year "+" "-"
                      1. 0
                        26 August 2019 19: 31
                        Sergey, you think now the question was easier for me to ask, but, Sergey, wait here on the site, somewhere in my comments there is an application, I just posted a piece from the article.
    2. 0
      2 September 2019 12: 22
      This means the situation is even worse ... The Yankees have prepared a mobile version for a container ship on wheels, or for a container for a dry cargo ship.
      Delivered. Set secretly without declaring availability and shoot at the right time. Shitty ...
  5. +6
    26 August 2019 06: 06
    But for Russia, this is certainly good. And what is "good"? By the fact that a new round of the arms race is beginning? The fact that billions of "rupees" will have to be spent not on the restoration of poker "effective managers" of medicine, not on the restoration of destroyed, closed schools and hospitals ....? Will this benefit the economy, which is already in a far from "brilliant" state ?
  6. -6
    26 August 2019 06: 40
    But for Russia, this is certainly good.

    Not just "good" but "definitely good"? In fact, exactly the opposite. In a long-distance race, an arms race with an economically strong (unattainable and incomparably strong) rival, the Russian Federation risks repeating the fate of the scoop and tearing the navel. This is the first thing.

    If earlier Pershing did not let the Kremlin from Germany sleep, today bourgeois missiles can be deployed in the Baltic states and Poland, and tomorrow in Ukraine. This is the second.

    And the most important thing. Money tucked into armament is money down the drain. The defense industry has long been a brake on progress.
    1. +8
      26 August 2019 07: 43
      Quote: professor
      And the most important thing. Money tucked into armament is money down the drain. The defense industry has long been a brake on progress.

      IAI tell it, they are neighing.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 14: 24
        Quote: CT-55_11-9009
        Quote: professor
        And the most important thing. Money tucked into armament is money down the drain. The defense industry has long been a brake on progress.

        IAI tell it, they are neighing.

        They are in the know. Tell Intel or Quelcom.
    2. 0
      26 August 2019 10: 46
      At the moment, the presence of an INF for the Russian Federation is "good" - it will close the "gaps" in the European and Asian theater of operations. RIAC is not counted in SALT. ICBMs do not need to be retargeted at "near" targets. The RSD in Kamchatka or Chukotka will reach the west coast of the United States - a help for strategic nuclear forces and a headache for the Americans in terms of interception. In addition, the Russian Federation can start work on land-based anti-ship INFs - more precisely, continue the themes of the 60s at a new level. So there are prospects, but whether it will work out is another matter.

      And yet - in the article a comment on the account of the raised American flag. It is also mentioned that the Israeli system was tested there. So, curious, did they raise the flag of Israel in those trials? Maybe you have a photo?
    3. +2
      26 August 2019 11: 17
      Quote: professor
      In long-distance running an arms race with an economically strong (unattainable and incomparably strong) opponent of the Russian Federation risks repeating the fate of the scoop and tearing up the navel.
      The beauty is that we don't have to "run". It is only necessary to abandon the concept of non-use of nuclear weapons by the first (free of charge) and rivet heads and missiles, proceeding from the requirement "two heads from different carriers for one target." And let the states make at least a million missiles for themselves - with their aviation this does not play a big role.
      Quote: professor
      If earlier Pershing did not let the Kremlin from Germany sleep, today bourgeois missiles can be deployed in the Baltic states and Poland, and tomorrow in Ukraine.
      Today, missiles from American submarines can have comparable flight time (we have a bastion full of holes) and sufficient delivery accuracy to ignore Pershing as a special threat (it can fly quite well without them, so exchanging them for something valuable does not make sense).
      1. -1
        26 August 2019 18: 12
        Soviet military spending did not when did not exceed 2,5% of the budget. it is a myth, and it is very foolish to repeat it. Moreover, military spending undermined the USSR. The fish rotted from the head.
    4. 0
      26 August 2019 16: 13
      The defense industry has always been the engine of progress.
      1. +1
        28 August 2019 20: 21
        Quote: serezhasoldatow
        The defense industry has always been the engine of progress.

        Until the beginning of the 20th century it was, now it is a brake. The citizen has long surpassed the military-industrial complex in progress. Developments from the citizen go to the military-industrial complex, and not vice versa.
        1. -1
          7 September 2019 20: 26
          Are you from the citizen in the military-industrial complex pushing progress? Off the couch?
  7. +1
    26 August 2019 06: 41
    Thirdly, having launched a cruise missile from the Mk41 land module, the Pentagon only confirmed the Russian propaganda thesis

    At the VO began to retype Ukrainian-Polish-Baltic tributaries?
  8. +3
    26 August 2019 08: 29
    Reading the article, I got the impression that the author is very concerned about the situation in the Amer segment of short- and medium-range missiles. And giggles at our supreme statement. All this is somehow strange.
  9. +1
    26 August 2019 08: 44
    An article about what I wrote about immediately after the start-up is purely symbolic, has no real military significance.
    And it seems that everyone perfectly understood this, it was not in vain that they carefully avoided using the media to indicate the type of missile launched — who would have been surprised at launching the Tomahawk from a somehow adapted platform resembling the crazy hands made in the program.
    The Americans confirmed with this launch that the treaty no longer exists - that’s all its significance.
    And it is still unknown when the Americans will develop a launcher, if for Tomahawk they may not even develop at all, it will remain with them.
    As with Harpoon, who never got into the MK41 launchers, although technically this is no problem, you only need to develop a launch accelerator and container.
    But they have a very strange decision logic ....
  10. 0
    26 August 2019 09: 23
    So why should they even have a ground-based cruise missile, if there are thousands of naval carriers? They will not even develop anything, as unnecessary.
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 12: 21
      Sea is strategic, their number is limited.
      A medium-range tactical, unlimited
      1. 0
        27 August 2019 01: 53
        Shchto. Is the number of tomahawks with non-nuclear charges limited by something? Oh wei ..
  11. +1
    26 August 2019 09: 46
    Ours will also need no more than a couple of months to reanimate the "Relief"
    Launcher 9V2413 of the complex RK-55 and KR KS-122
    1984, if there would be a rush or urgent need for it.



    And so, in its turn, re-equip SPU 9P78-1 OTRK Iskander-M with a more long-range complex.
  12. -2
    26 August 2019 10: 09
    Good note, reasonable assessment of the event.
  13. +1
    26 August 2019 10: 34
    The Americans will create the launch pad, of course, there is no doubt about it. The question is when.

    Yes soon. Despite the fact that they already had it.

    Unless, of course, they generally need it.

    In the photo - a test of a self-propelled launcher for cruise missiles GLCM BGM-109G "Tomogavk", early 80s
    1. +3
      26 August 2019 11: 38
      Greetings, namesake. I also wanted to show this installation, but you got ahead of me. Therefore, "offended" and put you a big plus :).
      But comrade Vyatkin would put a big minus for the absolute ignorance of the subject, which he undertook to write about.
      In general, he takes on many topics and not just technical ones. A couple of days ago, for example, he voiced his crazy idea at VO that the USSR had collapsed due to the fact that its citizens and leaders were supposedly terribly afraid of the 3 World War. I am a “product” of a pre-war release and I don’t remember that the people, before and after the war, became numb with fear of a possible war. Stalin, too, was not seen in fear of war before and after the Second World War. And the subsequent generations of the leaders of the USSR were also not very afraid of the 3 World War and simply took all possible measures so that the 22 of June 41 would not be repeated.
      And I must say that these measures yielded positive results. In any case, neither the United States nor its allies had any thoughts of testing the Union for strength, for it was understood that this was fraught.
  14. -1
    26 August 2019 10: 34
    "We did not violate anything in the INF Treaty, unlike the Russians." Yes, in this matter, probably, and the truth was not violated - but violations were enough.
    and how to understand this passage?
  15. -2
    26 August 2019 10: 37
    "Russian propaganda thesis" - only within the competence of the author of the article.
  16. +3
    26 August 2019 10: 52
    "I can’t believe at all in the stories of our Defense Ministry and the Foreign Ministry and even the Supreme Commander-in-Chief and the President of Russia that the Americans were preparing ahead of time to withdraw from the INF Treaty"
    What an insight! laughing
    The Americans got tired that the long-range caliber began to be placed on the Iskander chassis.
    And brag about it.
    Now Pandorra’s box has opened.
    An important contract collapsed.
    Medium-range missiles will appear in everyone: Poland, Ukraine, Germany, and other European countries. And KR, and BR. The technologies are not very complex, if Iran has mastered, then others are all the more so.
    1. +4
      26 August 2019 11: 31
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Americans got tired that the long-range caliber began to be placed on the Iskander chassis.
      And we got their "drones" with a range of more than 500 km, "target" missiles with characteristics of medium-range missiles, ground launchers for Tomahawks, etc.
      The modernization of their Raytheon rocket factory began in 2017, which means the money was allocated earlier, long before the "ground Caliber". This is probably why they did not exchange it: they understood that it was useless.
      1. +4
        26 August 2019 11: 37
        Yes, but oceans and friendly countries surround America. They are not threatened by Russian medium-range missiles. And Russia is a neighbor in the Cold War. And they all begin (officially) to arm themselves with medium-range missiles, deeply shooting through Russia.
        Could you think about this beforehand?
        1. +2
          26 August 2019 11: 50
          Quote: voyaka uh
          They are not threatened by Russian medium-range missiles.
          A quarter of the United States can be covered from the Far East. But most importantly, funds aimed at Europe will be freed for them.
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And they all begin (officially) to arm themselves with medium-range missiles, deeply shooting through Russia.
          The agreement was between the USA and the USSR; it did not limit its neighbors before. Will begin to arm themselves and what? Will they kill us not 2, but 3 times? But now it will be possible to distribute goals in an optimal way.
          1. 0
            26 August 2019 12: 00
            "he never limited his neighbors in any way." ////
            ----
            Limited. European countries adapted to compliance with Russian-American treaties. China - did not adjust.
            No Iskander and S-400 are enough to neutralize medium-range missiles near the borders of Russia. The Kremlin, as a novice chess player, makes a sharp move frightening the enemy, but is not able to calculate its consequences several moves ahead. And sticks in an uncomfortable position. sad
            1. +2
              26 August 2019 13: 03
              Quote: voyaka uh
              No Iskander and S-400 are enough to neutralize medium-range missiles near the borders of Russia.
              So we seem to hope to fight back, but we plan to take them with us. Therefore, the best "anti-missile" here is not "Prometheus", but an old "Pioneer"
              1. 0
                26 August 2019 13: 33
                Uh-uh ... It seems to you that everything will be decided in a global nuclear battle. This is not true. We will have to prepare for local conflicts as well. Where a single missile with a conventional warhead that fell on a city cannot be answered with an "incinerating blow". Example: India-Pakistan. Both countries have an atom. But they fight by conventional means. And here medium-range missiles are a very unpleasant type of weapon.
                1. +1
                  26 August 2019 17: 36
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  And here medium-range missiles are a very unpleasant type of weapon.
                  NATO has superiority in aviation; it can solve problems without missiles. We cannot rivet as many planes (nowhere, and not at all), and missiles to solve the same problems are quite real. The use of medium-range missiles in a non-nuclear version is a kind of militaristic perversion (fashionable, true): well, you threw about half a ton of explosives somewhere, how much should the target cost to make it pay off? It is one thing to burn a naval base or a defense plant, it is another thing to destroy a warehouse at the base (an armory is an exception that will help solve the problem) or half of the workshop.
                  1. 0
                    26 August 2019 18: 17
                    "this is some kind of militaristic perversion (fashionable, really): well, you threw half a ton of explosives somewhere" ////
                    -----
                    But it is being intensively applied.
                    Both Hamas and Hezbollah know very well that they cannot defeat Israel with short-range missiles. But our cities are regularly bombarded with them. What for? - to get an important psychological effect. "We have struck!" "We are strong!" Recognition as a military and political force.
                    The same can happen with medium-range missiles against Russia. And in response, an atomic bomb cannot be thrown. And even the city cannot be bombed ("disproportionate response")
                    1. +1
                      26 August 2019 18: 41
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      And in response, an atomic bomb cannot be thrown. And even the city cannot be bombed ("disproportionate response")
                      How I like the "disproportionate response"! We are considered scumbags - we will comply.
  17. 0
    26 August 2019 13: 36
    For Americans, the result is really secondary, because the execution of the project stops financing, and if projects are opened and for some reason closed early, while immediately opening another project, then the money flows like an endless river. It’s like our road workers didn’t have time to lay the asphalt, they are already shifting it over again. "Friendship" of the customer and the contractor. drinks
  18. +3
    26 August 2019 13: 46
    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    Even if there are only 1-2 Mk.41 launchers at European missile defense facilities in Europe now, nothing prevents the United States from placing an additional 10-20-100 Mk.41 launchers there tomorrow, the territory of the missile defense bases and the United States has more than enough capabilities for this .

    Time, money, the presence of these very PU

    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    And now they are enough for 1-2 PUs to keep calculations and bases in readiness.
    At NATO military bases near the borders of Russia, there are now also insignificant forces the size of a battalion brigade, but at the right time, these forces will increase tens of times both in people and in technology.

    There are three Mk-41s in Deveselu. But Deveselu is located at such a distance from the Russian border, it makes no sense to place existing Tomahawk missiles there.

    Quote: svp67
    Now imagine that the platform has its own suspension system, which works under such dynamic loads, which can break, but the platform itself can simply break at the start ... It’s necessary to calculate all this.

    Well, I think that engineers from the USA had the intelligence and knowledge to calculate the strength of this trailer and the possibility (or not the possibility) of its breaking
    Generally completely incomprehensible tests. Well, there would be a difference in the launch system from a sea platform and a land platform (remember, for example, how the Granit missile cruisers were launched from our nuclear-powered cruisers. The launchers were flooded and then only the start). Here, the launch system is technically the same both from an offshore platform and from a land platform. Why are these "under-testing"? That, it was so difficult, at least for the last six months before the US withdrawn from the treaty, to engage in the design of a mobile Tomahawk launcher. Design was not prohibited. But within a couple of weeks it was possible to make such an installation in metal and try to start up from it. It would make sense. And then half of the Mk-41 was taken, hoisted vertically on the trailer ... The meaning of such tests ???

    Quote: dzvero
    At the moment, the presence of the INF Treaty for the Russian Federation is "good" - it will close the "gaps" in the European and Asian theaters of operations.

    Not everything is so simple. The medal has two sides. We often consider "our" side, which allows us to close the gaps. But like the medal, there is a second side. Deployment of their RIAC in the same Baltics. And this is much worse than the early 80s, when American funds were placed in Britain, Italy, and the Federal Republic of Germany. Now the MRBM stationed in Estonia or Latvia will reach St. Petersburg or Moscow in 2-4 minutes. Which will shorten the time to stop this threat

    Quote: bk0010
    The beauty is that we don't have to "run". It is only necessary to abandon the concept of non-use of nuclear weapons by the first (free of charge) and rivet heads and missiles, proceeding from the requirement "two heads from different carriers for one target." And let the states make at least a million missiles for themselves - with their aviation this does not play a big role.

    You can probably rivet. You just have to forget about a lot. About a decent salary, about their own cars, about the Internet and cellular communications. It may be necessary to switch to a coupon system and a barracks position at enterprises. This may be the price of the desire to "rivet". After all, the existing plant, which produces ballistic missiles with solid propellants, is not rubber. More than he does he cannot ...

    Quote: Avior
    Sea is strategic, their number is limited.
    A medium-range tactical, unlimited

    There are no restrictions on SLCM. At the beginning of the INF Treaty, it was a question of limiting for 5 years the EMNIP the number of SLCMs in the figure of 820-850. But that was in the late 80s and early 90s. Now there are no restrictions on SLCMs and their launchers and in what agreements

    Quote: voyaka uh
    The Americans got tired that the long-range caliber began to be placed on the Iskander chassis.

    Well, the 9P78-1 TPS with the Caliber will simply not fit into the payload compartment of the Iskander launcher. As in the launcher shown at the briefing. Although, if desired (very large), there is a solution to this problem

    Quote: voyaka uh
    Medium-range missiles will appear in everyone: Poland, Ukraine, Germany, and other European countries. And KR, and BR. The technologies are not very complex, if Iran has mastered, then others are all the more so.

    Hardly at all. Uraina - I agree, there is still someone to design and build. Germany too. But all these Poland, the Balts and others are unlikely. There is no experience, no school, no necessary industry. Iran is still somewhat different from the same Poland. It took ten years for them to switch from a clone of our "SCAD" to their new missiles. And even then, there are still technical restrictions on the creation of more advanced missiles. The downside to terminating the treaty is not even that there are many countries capable of making MRBMs, but that the "brake" in terms of their deployment has disappeared ...

    Quote: bk0010
    And we got their "drones" with a range of more than 500 km, "target" missiles with characteristics of medium-range missiles, ground launchers for Tomahawks, etc.

    The media and, most importantly, the electorate really got it, because our authorities artificially fuel interest, although they know very well that drones and target missiles do not violate anything. But you have to keep the people in good shape, otherwise how to manage them if there are no horror stories?

    Quote: bk0010
    The modernization of their Raytheon rocket factory began in 2017, which means the money was allocated earlier, long before the "ground Caliber". This is probably why they did not exchange it: they understood that it was useless.

    And the modernization of the plant, which side to the contract? Somewhere in it was a ban on the modernization of enterprises ???

    Quote: bk0010
    A quarter of the United States can be covered from the Far East.

    Only Alaska, and perhaps a tenth of US territory in the west. Do not forget that the BRDS is no more than 5500 km
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 16: 31
      Quote: Old26
      There are three Mk-41s in Deveselu. But Deveselu is located at such a distance from the Russian border, it makes no sense to place existing Tomahawk missiles there.

      I agree. I’ll say more - to install subsonic missile defense systems, which in the absence of a complex terrain, the presence of numerous radars and the densest air defense / missile defense system are perfectly confused by the opponent - it is senseless a priori. Well, perhaps with thousands of pieces to overload the air defense goals. But this is fantastic))
      Quote: Old26
      And then here is taken half of the MK-41, mounted vertically on the trailer ... The meaning of such tests ???

      The author explained clearly - to show the whole world that "America is great again" )) It turned out, like the Ukrainian pseudo-brothers - classic "zrada" laughing
      Quote: Old26
      Now, the BDSM stationed in Estonia or Latvia has reached St. Petersburg or Moscow in 2-4 minutes. What will reduce the time to stop this threat

      With all due respect, what you wrote looks dangerous only to a simple layman. From a military point of view, this is, excuse me, nonsense. I can not name otherwise the deployment of infantry-borne infantry fighting systems in countries that are not only closely monitored by our air defense / missile defense systems, but also are almost completely shot at by MLRS / OTRK. Ballistic missiles are extremely vulnerable in the initial, active section of the trajectory. I’m generally silent about the dead zone of the ballistic missile defense with a radius of up to a thousand kilometers. If the United States ever has a BRDS, then they will be placed approximately in the same place as before, IMHO. hi
      Quote: Old26
      Now there are no restrictions on SLCMs and their launchers and in what agreements

      Yes. And on the ALCV, too.
      Quote: Old26
      The downside to terminating the treaty is not even that there are many countries capable of making MRBMs, but that the "brake" in terms of their deployment has disappeared ...

      What is the use of placing an IFRS if there are no nuclear warheads for them? And the launch of one / group of non-nuclear ballistic missile defense systems is an excellent occasion to roll up the state that decided on this into the night-glowing asphalt.
      Quote: Old26
      Uraina - I agree, there is still someone to design and build

      The ballistic missile defense will not be mastered, the train has left ... and that’s good.
      Quote: Old26
      Only Alaska, and perhaps a tenth of US territory in the west. Do not forget that the BRDS is no more than 5500 km

      Chukotka covers more than half of the continental United States, including the entire West Coast to Mexico. Recently, a picture from Google Earth was thrown off to the site, specially measured)
      hi
      Thank you to the author for the article, I ordered everything as a commentary to the previous article :) I would also like to know Y. Vyatkin’s view on the nuclear potential of Britain and France, in particular, on their capabilities in the area of ​​nuclear weapons and production (not modernization, like in the USA) .
    2. 0
      26 August 2019 16: 38
      Alaska alone, and perhaps a tenth of US territory in the west.

      No, if it’s from Chukotka, it’s almost THE WHOLE WEST, and Los Angeles and San Francisco, and much more.
    3. 0
      26 August 2019 17: 50
      Quote: Old26
      Now, the BDSM stationed in Estonia or Latvia has reached St. Petersburg or Moscow in 2-4 minutes.
      What is the flying time of the Trident from the North Sea? The same minutes. There are no state SSBNs? In a threatened period - they will. And there is nothing we can do about it. Therefore, one must not console oneself with illusions, but proceed precisely from 2-4 minutes of flight time. Therefore, it is necessary to adopt the doctrine of a preemptive strike: we will not have time to deliver the counter-strike, but for the response it is necessary to increase the number of carriers and goals by 20 times.
      Quote: Old26
      You can probably rivet. Just have to forget a lot.
      You don’t have to: it’s cheaper than riveting aviation or strategic missiles to solve the same problems. The issue does not rest on money, but on industry: its capabilities are rather modest.
      Quote: Old26
      The media and, most importantly, the electorate really got it, because our authorities artificially fuel interest, although they know very well that drones and target missiles do not violate anything.
      What fundamentally differs from a drone cruise missile? He will not be able to deliver explosives to the target? Yes, it will be more expensive, but no more. What happens if a target rocket changes its head from telemetry to thermonuclear? Medium-range missile.
      Quote: Old26
      And the modernization of the plant, which side to the contract? Somewhere in it was a ban on the modernization of enterprises ???
      Why upgrade the plant if they are not going to build anything on it?
    4. 0
      26 August 2019 17: 53
      Quote: Old26
      Only Alaska, and perhaps a tenth of US territory in the west. Do not forget that the BRDS is no more than 5500 km
      Google shows that Texas will almost reach.
    5. 0
      26 August 2019 18: 26
      Vladimir, deployment of medium-range MRBMs and KRs on the borders of the Russian Federation will allegedly reduce the "flight" time - this is a myth and a very harmful myth. Any air defense missile system, even the most obsolete, can shoot down an MRBM and a strategic missile system, but an ICBM is a problem and what else. The flight time of the Pershing-2 at a distance of 500 km is 7 minutes, the Tomahawk cruise missile - 45 minutes.
  19. 0
    26 August 2019 14: 29
    And what exactly? What new rockets? What is there to fix? As I understand it, there are ready-made cassettes of sea-based missiles, both among Americans and ours. It is not necessary to establish their production, it has already been established for a long time.
    We go further. Cassettes have connectors that connect cables to the devices of the launch complex of the ship. That is, it remains to simply readjust this PC to the land radar, since it no longer has ship detection systems, and that’s all. Given that there are already other complexes, with its radar guidance, what is so impossible here?
    Was the rocket delivered on a civilian trailer? So great! So she doesn’t need special transport at all, add radiation protection to the walls of the trailer and that's enough. Let the trailer crash on launch, what's the problem?
  20. +2
    26 August 2019 18: 08
    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    There are three Mk-41s in Deveselu. But Deveselu is located at such a distance from the Russian border, it makes no sense to place existing Tomahawk missiles there.

    I agree. I’ll say more - to install subsonic missile defense systems, which in the absence of a complex terrain, the presence of numerous radars and the densest air defense / missile defense system are perfectly confused by the opponent - it is senseless a priori. Well, perhaps with thousands of pieces to overload the air defense goals. But this is fantastic))

    I think that thousands will not be needed. After all, do not forget that in the event of a conflict, we and they will use electronic warfare and electronic warfare. In addition, trap missiles will also be used to overload the air defense system. But the fact that many cruise missiles will be shot down is not discussed. However, the enemy will also try to lay flight routes "along the edge" of the SAM engagement zones

    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    And then here is taken half of the MK-41, mounted vertically on the trailer ... The meaning of such tests ???

    The author explained clearly - to show the whole world that "America is great again" )) It turned out, like the Ukrainian pseudo-brothers - classic "zrada" laughing

    Yes, in principle, the question was rather rhetorical.

    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    Now, the BDSM stationed in Estonia or Latvia has reached St. Petersburg or Moscow in 2-4 minutes. What will reduce the time to stop this threat

    With all due respect, what you wrote looks dangerous only to a simple layman. From a military point of view, this is, excuse me, nonsense. I can not name otherwise the deployment of infantry-borne infantry fighting systems in countries that are not only closely monitored by our air defense / missile defense systems, but also are almost completely shot at by MLRS / OTRK. Ballistic missiles are extremely vulnerable in the initial, active section of the trajectory. I’m generally silent about the dead zone of the ballistic missile defense with a radius of up to a thousand kilometers. If the United States ever has a BRDS, then they will be placed approximately in the same place as before, IMHO. hi

    I don’t think this is such a crazy option. Yes, of course, the Baltic region shoots OTRK (MLRS only Estonia). And under control is - no one argues. But let's look at things without pink glasses. Of course, we have air defense systems in this region, but we should not forget that in the same Leningrad Region they are not deployed at all along the border with the Baltic states. Yes, the S-300 and S-400 systems are capable of shooting down missiles, including infantry fighting vehicles, but at the same time, the affected area will have a range of 27-30 kilometers and a range of 60-70 kilometers.
    What will our "sworn friends" have? Let's take the same Pershing-2 as performance characteristics. And I'm not so much interested in its range as in its speed parameters. For the same "Pershing-2", the operating time of the first stage of EMNIP is 58 seconds, the second - 46. Let's make a correction for the time and let the operating time of the 1st stage be 45 seconds, the second 35-40 seconds. During this time, the rocket will pick up a speed of about 4 km / s. And it will already be at altitudes that significantly exceed the height reach of the same S-300 and S-400 complexes. What will be the reaction to the Pershing launch? How long will it take for the air defense missile system not only to record its start (and it will not happen at the same second as the launch itself. It takes time for the missile to come out from under the radio horizon of the air defense missile system. at this moment will be in such a place that the only possible shooting will be "after", then interception will hardly be possible at least by border air defense systems. Those who will be closer to the object of cover - I think they will be able to shoot. Again, the reasoning is purely ephemeral.

    The dead zone for the infantry fighting system I think will be 3 times less than what you wrote. 300 kilometers, maximum 500. Indeed, even with ICBMs, the minimum range, depending on the missiles used, ranges around 800 km

    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    Now there are no restrictions on SLCMs and their launchers and in what agreements

    Yes. And on the ALCV, too.

    Despite the fact that the calculation is "one bomber-one charge", there is still a limitation of previously concluded agreements under which the number of ALCMs on bombers cannot exceed 20 (for the Americans)

    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    The downside to terminating the treaty is not even that there are many countries capable of making MRBMs, but that the "brake" in terms of their deployment has disappeared ...

    What is the use of placing an IFRS if there are no nuclear warheads for them? And the launch of one / group of non-nuclear ballistic missile defense systems is an excellent occasion to roll up the state that decided on this into the night-glowing asphalt.

    Well, now the Americans have a problem with YBG for the newly created RSD, of course, but you should not consider it eternal. After all, a sufficient amount of RSD will appear in the Americans by no means tomorrow.

    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    Uraina - I agree, there is still someone to design and build

    The ballistic missile defense will not be mastered, the train has left ... and that’s good.

    I think they will. Moreover, the development of their Iskander-class missile is underway on the order of Saudi Arabia (Grom-2 0. And Iskander itself is a kind of thing in itself. It is considered a quasi-ballistic missile, but everyone knows perfectly well that when launched along the classical trajectory (you need to replace the software, maybe some other minor improvements), the flight range will approximately triple.Materials about such problems in the network are sufficient.
    Unlike the previous Ukrainian projects - "Borisfen", "Sapsan", "Korshun", it is unlikely that the project funded by Saudi Arabia suffers from chronic underfunding (like the previous ones). Moreover, judging by the open data, firing tests of the engines of the Cyclone-4M carrier began at Yuzhmash. Which in itself says what the MRBM can do

    Quote: Fedor Egoist
    Quote: Old26
    Only Alaska, and perhaps a tenth of US territory in the west. Do not forget that the BRDS is no more than 5500 km

    Chukotka covers more than half of the continental United States, including the entire West Coast to Mexico. Recently, a picture from Google Earth was thrown off to the site, specially measured).

    I think, comrade, that Chukotka should not be considered as the location of the PGRK. I have repeatedly written in the comments that at one time the question arose of placing the Pioneer complexes in Chukotka. This was very much wanted by both the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Ministry of Defense. A commission was created, which, having worked in Chukotka, gave an unambiguous conclusion. It is not allowed to post "Pioneers" in Chukotka. Instead of increasing the combat readiness of a group of missile forces, this will lead to the opposite results. The head of the commission was General Kozydub, head of the PGRK direction at the Main Staff of the Strategic Missile Forces. And after all, he probably had weighty arguments that both the Politburo of the Central Committee and the Ministry of Defense agreed with this.
    And here on "VO" they only say that it is necessary to bet in Chukotka. Sorry, but I trust the opinion of a specialist more. EMNIP he described this situation in the book "Seven commanders"
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 18: 42
      Vladimir, there is no thrust cut-off device at Pershing-2 not at the first or at the second stage, the Rocket is going to start, if you need to shoot at maximum -1770 km, two stages are assembled, the warheads are joined, the flight program and launch are entered, if at a distance from 500 to 800, put only the first step. the warheads are docked with it, (the most common picture of Pershing-2 is of interest) -Pershing-1 B, range less than 500 km - they put only the second stage and warheads, -Pershing-1С, in intervals the range varies by apogee height, raise or lower, optimal and non-optimal, in any case, the minimum flight time is 7 min, max -12 min.
    2. 0
      26 August 2019 18: 45
      No need in Chukotka, place in Kamchatka, under the Pacific Fleet umbrella.
    3. 0
      26 August 2019 18: 47
      Even if you shoot for a min. range -240 km anyway flight time - 7 minutes, well, that's how it works. faster does not work.
    4. 0
      26 August 2019 18: 53
      In USA, there is a site where veterans of the 56 art brigade gather, they consider me the best Pershing-2 specialist in the world, even among them, on the one hand, it flatters me, and on the other, it scares me seriously, and I won’t be . will Wikipedia people learn about this rocket? Very bad.
  21. +3
    26 August 2019 18: 59
    Quote: Sergey K
    Vladimir, there is no thrust cut-off device at Pershing-2 not at the first or at the second stage, the Rocket is going to start, if you need to shoot at maximum -1770 km, two stages are assembled, the warheads are joined, the flight program and launch are entered, if at a distance from 500 to 800, put only the first step. the warheads are docked with it, (the most common picture of Pershing-2 is of interest) -Pershing-1 B, range less than 500 km - they put only the second stage and warheads, -Pershing-1С, in intervals the range varies by apogee height, raise or lower, optimal and non-optimal, in any case, the minimum flight time is 7 min, max -12 min.

    I know, Sergey! The Pershing was used as an example to show how many seconds its engines were running.

    Quote: bk0010
    What is the flying time of the Trident from the North Sea? T

    "Evil tongues" claim that 7-10 minutes

    Quote: bk0010
    Therefore, it is necessary to adopt the doctrine of a preemptive strike: we will not have time to deliver the counter-strike, but for the response it is necessary to increase the number of carriers and goals by 20 times.

    Our military doctrine has such a cunning wording. Beat at the appointed time. Neither reciprocal, nor reciprocal-counter, namely "at the appointed time", But when this "time will be appointed" the question is closed by all tolerances
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 19: 25
      They, either in 1989 or 1990, conducted test firing of Trident-2, and it was on this topic that "Flat trajectories" - firing at mines with a range of -2000 km, in my opinion about 20 missiles were used up, and the results of the firing were even published, I don't remember the time , but I remember well - the average KVO (attention) - 6400 meters, then they spat on this venture.
    2. 0
      26 August 2019 19: 50
      Although from the very beginning it was clear that the idea was rotten - to reduce the "throwing" angle from 20 to 4-5 degrees, put a 60-ton rocket almost horizontally in the active area and wait for the control system to cope with this, in fact, not standard for it situations, and it is extremely naive to expect good results from this.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 19: 59
        It only says that the Americans are not gods, but are the same before ----- we are.
  22. +3
    26 August 2019 19: 46
    Quote: sergey k
    They, either in 1989 or 1990, conducted test firing of Trident-2, and it was on this topic that "Flat trajectories" - firing at mines with a range of -2000 km, in my opinion about 20 missiles were used up, and the results of the firing were even published, I don't remember the time , but I remember well - the average KVO (attention) - 6400 meters, then they spat on this venture.

    Yes, there is such a publication. Somewhere on disk, the PDF file is with the results. In short, short-range shooting along a quasi-ballistic trajectory leads to approximately a three-fold decrease in range, to a three-to-four-fold increase in CWO, and to a three-fold (even slightly larger, EMNIP by 3,5 times) decrease in cast weight. The only indisputable plus due to the apogee of 45-90 km is that it can be spotted too late
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 20: 13
      Well, yes, our SPRN radars, the higher you toss, the further they will see, but the minuses are the sea.
  23. 0
    26 August 2019 22: 04
    And that there is no option: if they show a hackneyed (overexposed) Mk41, but in fact there is another ready-made "pie".
    Everyone laughs, but "as soon as it pops up and fires" at the right moment, then all the humorists-karakaturist
    in your pants right away.
    They do this: In order to put to sleep vigilance!
  24. 0
    27 August 2019 10: 43
    Galkin remembered, Kolobok ... scraped through the brooms.
    It is interesting that scrapers scraped?
  25. 0
    27 August 2019 11: 54
    as soon as Russia had calibers, we should have expected the Americans to withdraw from the treaty, because this treaty did not give the states an advantage. There was no great reason to have land missiles of small and medium radius and the United States, they always had these missiles in the marine version. it somehow didn’t create security for our country (except for sensations) after we had our own cruise missiles, and parity was generally organized at sea, with the exception that our carriers were several times cheaper. smaller, and therefore inconspicuous. now the Americans are threatening us with land placement. waving a club, so to speak, waiting for us to get scared (like Misha Gorbachev) and waving some stupid unequal agreement that puts us in a vulnerable position.
    1. 0
      27 August 2019 21: 14
      Quote: core
      as soon as Russia got calibers
      Even the USSR had a grenade, without dope with non-nuclear equipment. Parity at sea is not and is not expected.
  26. 0
    27 August 2019 14: 20
    But on the other hand, they did not forget to hang the US flag a little more, strongly reminding our feral Svidomo "non-brothers" from the territory of Ukraine. They also like very much "peremogs" made "of cones and acorns", and they like to hide the wretchedness of what they pass as "new" guided missiles, now as "anti-ship missiles" with large-sized zhovto-blakit panels.

    Looking at this sad sight

    in fact, the Americans have nothing so far, except, of course, the most non-nuclear KR and the possibility of launching it from the UVP Mk41 and on land, which no one doubted

    I really wanted to highlight these pearls separately. What nonsense? "The Americans don't even have an installation" - is that the problem for the Americans to put the Mk 41 on a trailer like a Patriot? Absolutely not a problem, given that the author did not give any references to the launch date, or to evidence (at least some) that this launch was made not half a year ago, and given that the Americans ALREADY have a rocket and it ALREADY flew, and the exit from the INF Treaty their initiative, so they ALREADY know where and what PUs they need to put. And we continue to bast soup bastards, and it is not necessary to say that we honestly observed the INF Treaty and we do not have any "RC for Iskander", or everything is, but "everything is secret, who will show us" because the enemy does not sleep and this is not a topic for Solovyov. Special thanks to the author for comparing the American tests of the RSD with the Ukrainian one, this is not funny, the United States is not Ukraine, if they need RSD, they will be, and it doesn't matter how much it will cost, because it will pay off.