How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier?

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It is often said that an aircraft carrier is a large and fragile target that can be easily taken out of the game if not sunk. So are the Americans really investing billions of dollars in ships that will fall apart at the drop of a hat? Let's look at the survivability of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier, which is the backbone of the American carrier forces and American might in the vastness of the World Ocean. I would like to point out right away that the author of the article does not raise questions like: how many missiles break through the "Aegis shield" or the chances of a submarine breaking through to the center of the ship formation. No, let's imagine a purely hypothetical situation in which missiles and torpedoes successfully reach their target.





Heavy RCC


First, I must recall that by the time the first Nimitz was laid in the 1968 year, the Americans already had 48 years of experience in building and operating combat ships of this type, which allowed Nimitz to implement many solutions, increasing the survivability of the ship. And so, how is its survivability ensured?

Firstly, the aircraft carrier is huge and has a fantastic reserve of buoyancy. Secondly, its structural protection - the thickness of its outer skin reaches 1-1,5 centimeters, and the internal longitudinal bulkheads - up to 2-2,5 centimeters of high-quality high-strength steel. Most of the flight deck is made of removable steel sheets (the yield strength of which is 7000 kgf/cm2, the tensile strength is 8000 kgf/cm2, the thickness of the sheets is 45 mm), which allows for the fairly quick replacement of damaged areas, in the areas of the cellars, the horizontal protection is most likely thicker and can reach up to 140 mm. In general, 1496 tons of HY-80 steel, 21527 tons of HY -100 steel and 22370 tons of HTS and MS steels are used to build the Nimitz. Of course, this is not armor steel, but these grades of steel have good strength, and the aircraft carrier cannot be called a "tin can" like other modern warships. In addition to structural protection, there is also local anti-fragmentation armor made of Kevlar plates up to 64 mm thick, of course, they will not stop warheads, but they will definitely be able to localize many fragments. And although the ship is not an armored floating fortress, like a battleship, its huge linear dimensions practically exclude the spread of damaging factors of non-nuclear ammunition. Thirdly, all vital systems of the ship are duplicated and spaced apart from each other, which does not allow them to be disabled by a single hit. And such vulnerable elements as the nuclear power plant and powder magazines are located in the underwater part of the ship below the waterline and covered with armor, aviation fuel is generally stored in buoys, thereby removed from the ship's hull. Therefore, one cannot count on the defeat of such important critical elements.

Many people point out that the flight deck is crowded with aircraft containing tons of ammunition and flammable jet fuel. Two striking examples are always given as a clear example: the fire on the Forrestal (in 1967) and on the Enterprise (in 1969). In both cases, a small Zunni missile caused real disasters that resulted in large human casualties and monstrous destruction. Many use these two incidents as evidence of the vulnerability of the aircraft carrier. But I would like to object that these incidents were accidents that occurred at the time of preparing the aircraft for a combat sortie, and there were many equipped and fueled aircraft on the deck. This can only be repeated if the attack on the aircraft carrier is unexpected, only if the crew does not have time to prepare for the strike, which, you must agree, is unlikely in reality, fleet The United States has many means of monitoring the space around its AUGs and it is unlikely to succeed in invisibly attacking an aircraft carrier. Most likely, the crew of the aircraft carrier will have 5-10 minutes of time. What can the team do in these 5-10 minutes? Yes, a lot:

- Overlaps and blows fuel lines, thereby eliminating the risk of fire spreading through them or leakage of fuel vapors, which could lead to an explosion.
- Ammunition and hanging fuel tanks are either cleaned in the cellars, or, if there is a lack of time, they are simply dumped overboard by forklifts.
- Ready-to-launch aircraft launch urgently. From the refueled, but not ready for flight, fuel is drained urgently (if there is not enough time, these machines can be urgently dropped overboard - of course, losing a fighter for tens of millions is unpleasant, but leaving such a bomb on the flight deck is even less pleasant) . Unfilled cars are put into the hangar.
- Shatterproof bulkheads are blocked, anti-explosion doors are closed and all fire fighting equipment and gear are activated.

How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier?

If necessary, aircraft without regret are thrown overboard


But if you still catch the crew by surprise? If you take the aircraft carrier by surprise, and even at a time when equipped and refueled aircraft are on the deck, then this will certainly be the worst option for the aircraft carrier’s crew, but it’s premature to talk about his death or incapacitation. The Americans learned from those disasters and battles with the Japanese Empire. Aircraft carriers like Nimitz have an automated and very powerful flight deck irrigation system that can turn a flight deck into a real Niagara Falls in seconds.


Deck irrigation systems began to be used on US aircraft carriers after the Forrestal fire. Pictured is CV-42 Franklin Roosevelt



Irrigation system on an aircraft carrier of the Nimitz type


Moreover, each sailor on an aircraft carrier is a professional firefighter. On the aircraft carrier itself there is a fire and sapper equipment, including armored tractors, with which you can drop burning aircraft overboard.

Many argue that there is no need to drown an “aircraft hut”, it is enough to destroy catapults, air finishers, aircraft lifters, and just make a hole in the flight deck and all Goliath is defeated. Well, let's carefully examine the flight deck.



The catapults are marked in red, there are four of them, one pair is located in the forward part of the deck, the second pair is located on the corner deck. At the same time, the working parts of both catapult blocks are spread over the gallery deck at a distance of more than 50 meters. Such separation and anti-fragment bulkheads guarantee that single hits will not disable all four catapults, in the worst case, the return mechanism will be damaged, and this is a breakdown of a pair of catapults at once. Although it is not at all clear how the missiles will accurately hit these catapults, which are built into the flight deck and are not separated from it in any way, how will the missile homing head distinguish the catapult from other elements of the deck? Therefore, hitting them will be random. It should be noted that the F-18A/F is capable of taking off without a catapult in a "lightweight" version, having only air-to-air missiles on part of the suspension and with half the fuel. The aircraft carrier also has propellant boosters, which could be a temporary solution.

The green finishers, which are also available in four copies and which are also divided into two blocks, are highlighted in green. Both blocks are separated from each other and are isolated by transverse bulkheads. It should be noted that the above deck is easily replaceable. Even in the event of a complete loss of aerofinisher, the aircraft carrier’s team has emergency emergency equipment for landing aircraft - grid-barriers.

Aircraft lifts are highlighted in blue, four of them are distributed along the edges of the flight deck, three on the starboard side, and one on the left. Which eliminates the defeat of one ammunition. The aircraft hatches on the sides are closed with double explosion-proof doors, with a wide gap between them.

But how strong is the flight deck itself? In the case of a fire on the Forrestal, its flight deck exploded: 16 air bombs in caliber 453 kg, 4 air bombs in caliber 340 kg, 8 air bombs in caliber 225 kg. But it must be clarified that these were old bombs of the Second World War, where the explosives degraded and their power was lower than that of the new bombs, but 10 408 kg of bombs is not sickly. In the case of the Enterprise, on its flight deck it detonated: 4 Zuni with 5 kg warheads each, 6 aerial bombs of 225 kg caliber and a tanker with 6000 gallons of fuel. However, the holes were not huge, and after clearing the deck, she was able to fulfill her function. “Patches” were applied to all the holes in the flight deck - the damaged edges were cut off with an autogen and a temporary steel floor was applied. In order to riddle the flight deck of an aircraft carrier so that it ceases to fulfill its function, an unreasonable amount of ammunition will be required.


A hole in the flight deck on Forrestal.


Maybe we can get into the hangar? If the missile can penetrate the flight deck and the gallery or hit the side at an altitude of 20-30 meters above the waterline, it may well hit the hangar. The hangar of the Nimz is three-sectioned, divided into three parts by explosion-proof sliding bulkheads, which in turn localize the explosion. However, the aircraft that are in the hangar are not fueled and do not carry any weapons (the experience of the war in the Pacific taught us that equipped and fueled aircraft in the hangar is a very bad idea), with the exception of only some ammunition, which does not detonate for a long time from fire. But the defeat of even one section of the hangar already means that the aircraft carrier has lost a third of the wing, provided that all the aircraft are in the hangar.

The powder carrier cellar of the aircraft carrier is located in the safest place - in the underwater part, below the waterline, and the cellar itself is divided into 32 independent compartments and is covered by a Kevlar armored deck to protect against fragments. In this case, the supply of ammunition from the cellar to the flight deck is divided into two stages. First, elevators deliver ammunition from the cellars to the assembly room, which is located on the second deck and is brought out under the ledge of the flight deck as far as possible from the hull. In the assembly room, the ammunition is put on alert and sent to the flight deck with a special lift or aircraft lift. It is also worth noting that the US Navy uses the so-called "safe" ammunition that can withstand high temperatures from open fire for a long time until the team puts out the fire.



As aviation Fuel is the main source of fire situations, then American shipbuilders paid maximum attention to this problem. Firstly, all stocks of aviation fuel are stored in anti-torpedo buoys and are part of the anti-torpedo protection. Thus, the fuel is isolated and surrounded by water, the fuel tanks themselves contain only nitrogen, which eliminates the formation of an explosion of a dangerous mixture of air and fuel vapors. Secondly, sailors prefer to use only old fuel JP-5, although it is not as effective as the more modern JP-8, but the old fuel JP-5 has a higher ignition temperature. On the flight deck itself, there are 14 refueling units that are used both for fuel supply and for emergency pumping, according to the standards, the refueling team must empty the F-18 fuel tanks in 10 minutes or in 15 minutes if portable hoses are used.

The Nimitz nuclear power plant is located in its underwater part of the ship and dispersed. The reactor and turbine compartments alternate from bow to stern in the following order: reactor - turbine - reactor - turbine, and are separated from each other by two watertight bulkheads and intermediate compartments. The reactors themselves operate on the principle of "fail-safe" that is, the core of the reactor is partially filled with water as a neutron moderator, and water is continuously pumped out by pumps. In the event of an accident, the pumps stop pumping water, a complete flooding of the core occurs, which leads to the killing of the reactor. Moreover, the nuclear installation itself has a very high degree of reliability and fault tolerance, and the reactor team is very well prepared for work in emergency situations. This statement is without any doubt, since modern safety precautions for nuclear weapons are the main legacy of Admiral Rickover.


A bit of “sofa analytics”


Yes, how many missiles will we need to, if not to sink, then at least for a long time to disable an aircraft carrier? Given all the survivability measures for an Nimitz-type aircraft carrier, it can be assumed how much is enough. Take, for example, the Granite missile as one of the most powerful anti-ship missiles in the world. Approximately it will be represented as follows:

- 1-2 hits from Granites - the aircraft carrier will restore full combat capability within a few hours. Catapults and arresting gear are functioning, although not all of them. If you're lucky, about 1/3 of the air wing will be destroyed.

-3-5 hits of “Granites” - an aircraft carrier will be able to partially restore its combat capability and will require serious repairs at the base, more than half of the wing is no more.

-6-8 hits of "Granites" - an aircraft carrier completely loses the ability to restore its combat effectiveness, only helicopters can be used at maximum. The ship requires a very long overhaul, which can stretch for many months, or even years, and the ship may not have time to return to the end of the conflict, that is, it will no longer be of any value in the current conflict.

- 9-19 hits of "Granites" - the aircraft carrier is so badly damaged that there are doubts about the feasibility of repair and its restoration.

-20-24 hit "Granites" (a full salvo of cruisers 1144 and submarines 949А) - an aircraft carrier turns into a charred skeleton, possibly radioactive. In this case, the escort ships themselves will finish him (so that the poor fellow would not suffer).

But what about torpedoes?


The thickness of the anti-torpedo protection reaches 6 meters, which must withstand a contact explosion of a standard 533-mm torpedo with a 300-kilogram warhead. The protection is made according to the so-called "American" three-chamber scheme: an expansion chamber at the outer casing (according to some sources, a synthetic filler is used in the expansion chamber, which dampens the energy of the shock wave); then there is an absorption chamber (tanks with aviation fuel) in the middle; an expansion chamber in front of the main watertight bulkhead. Protection from explosion by the bottom is provided by a double bottom along the entire length of the ship and a reinforced keel. The ship's hull is divided into a series of watertight compartments by twenty-three transverse and four longitudinal bulkheads, ensuring the unsinkability of the ship in the event of significant combat damage.



In order to sink such a giant, at least 10 torpedoes of 533 mm caliber will be needed. And all these arguments that it is enough to tilt the aircraft carrier with a couple of torpedoes are shattered by the fact that the aircraft carrier crew will only need to carry out a standard counter-flooding procedure to level the trim. The decommissioned 65-76 "Kit" torpedo of 650 mm caliber carried a warhead weighing more than 550 kg and could be more effective, since it would most likely penetrate anti-torpedo protection, but to successfully disable the aircraft carrier, approximately 5-6 would be needed. At the same time, only with the help of torpedoes can you send the giant to the bottom. No matter how many missiles you use, only the destruction of the underwater part and the ship taking on seawater is the only way to deal with an aircraft carrier.

But what about “Kuzkina’s mother”


Of course, a direct hit on an aircraft carrier by a special charge (nuclear munition) guarantees that the aircraft carrier will remain only in memories. But if a nuclear explosion occurs at a certain distance, then the aircraft carrier is quite capable of surviving it. Operation Crossroads in July 1946 showed that large ships are quite resistant to the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion, during the test, aircraft carriers withstood up to 30 pounds per square inch, a modern aircraft carrier can withstand much more. A modern aircraft carrier has crew protection from Weapons mass destruction, and its steel hull with a complex air conditioning system will effectively protect against radioactive radiation and radioactive fallout. Many experts argue that the explosion of a 500 kt warhead (and this is the power often indicated when talking about special warheads of the Granit, Bazalt, and Kh-22 missiles) at a distance of more than 1,5 km does not pose a threat to an aircraft carrier. Many suggest that in a nuclear war, aircraft carriers will be useless, since radioactive fallout will make it impossible for personnel to stay on the flight deck. Here one can object, since there is a flight deck irrigation system, which can not only extinguish a fire, but also wash away radioactive contamination from the flight deck.


Shock tests of an aircraft carrier, a simulator of a nuclear explosion detonates at a certain distance from the ship, to simulate an indirect nuclear strike, all ship systems must function without failures.


Conclusion


Aircraft carrier is truly a "toughie", which is really difficult to crack, and with its air wing he is the most dangerous enemy at sea. The aircraft carrier has tremendous survivability, but, of course, is not invulnerable. In order to cause significant damage to an aircraft carrier, you need to use a lot of strength, because only multiple hits can disable it, while the aircraft carrier itself will not give up so easily.
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  1. + 20
    25 August 2019 05: 13
    How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier?
    Weird question. Not at all. History has shown that one future Senator John McCain is enough for this. True, on the first attempt to sink the aircraft carrier, he was unable to - see, there was not enough practical experience - well, after all, they did not provide him with the second attempt.
    1. + 31
      25 August 2019 05: 34
      The article is pure theory. If in the event of military action, at least one aircraft carrier is destroyed, no matter how, the rest, I think, will be afraid to go to combat zones. It will be expensive, and "unacceptable losses" are a sacred point for the Americans.
      1. + 24
        25 August 2019 05: 47
        Quote: Aerodrome
        and "unacceptable losses" are the holy fad of the Americans.

        I do not agree.Americans They are able to spit on losses if they really need to. And they will justify it beautifully. They have enough resources and opportunities.
        1. + 30
          25 August 2019 08: 07
          Quote: apro
          I don’t agree. Americans are able to spit on losses if it is very necessary. And they will justify beautifully. They have enough means and opportunities.

          Yeah. Only it was necessary to clarify that they did not care about the losses among the civilian population and the losses of the allies. As for "loved ones", they are very sensitive to the preservation of their skins.
          1. +1
            25 August 2019 08: 13
            Amers have a category of military men fighting for citizenship. No one is waiting for these in the states. But no one asks their citizens either. Representatives of the lower classes go to battle. Relatives of whom can shut up with compensations. Money is everything ..
            1. + 13
              25 August 2019 08: 18
              Quote: apro
              Amers have a category of military men fighting for citizenship. No one is waiting for these in the states. But no one asks their citizens either. Representatives of the lower classes go to battle. Relatives of whom can shut up with compensations. Money is everything ..

              What you described fully applies to PMC fighters who fight and die for money, and therefore the United States itself, as the state has no obligations to them, and it does not consider them, but stupidly concludes a contract with their employer to another delicate task. Their death is the employer's problem and he fulfills obligations under the contract. They have a different approach to the oath under oath.
              1. +7
                25 August 2019 08: 31
                But they take the oath of allegiance to SGA .. do not underestimate the stubbornness of the enemy in achieving their goals. And do not trust Amer’s propaganda ..
                1. +2
                  25 August 2019 08: 51
                  The Americans are no longer those that were during the Second World War, the Korean War and the Vietnam War, where they lost 60000 soldiers, and then in 10 years of slaughter. It turns out, in a year 6000 people. This is even less than dying in road crashes ..
                  And now, politicians are different, and citizens are no longer going to die for other people's ambitions. Learned to appreciate life. She is there at a high level ..
                  If we are at war, then they will do it with the wrong hands. Arabs, for example, are many. They are not sorry. You can form gangs, arm them and direct them wherever you need. Ukraine will be armed, educate young in the spirit of hatred of Russia. Then it will be possible to set on the border Russian territories. Russia, of course, cannot be defeated, but it will be possible to spoil a little ..
                  This is their vile and vile policy ..
                  1. + 33
                    25 August 2019 11: 39
                    Quote: Uhu
                    And why the heck to drown him? !!!
                    -the trick is that if it comes to the need to stoke the AUG, then there will be no sense in this. This will mean that the war ALREADY In this situation, spending something on some separate ships makes no sense - there is no half of America (I hope, at least)
                    Well, swim and swim - a demon would be with them ... there’s nowhere to pester ...
                    1. + 32
                      25 August 2019 13: 25
                      Quote: your1970
                      This will mean that the war has already begun.

                      Surprisingly, you are probably the only one who understands that an aircraft carrier is not at all a "spherical horse in a vacuum". You are absolutely correct, in my opinion, you believe that if the need arose to sink a US aircraft carrier, it means that it HAS STARTED. In this case, Putin informed the whole world, including the "civilized" one, that decision points would be beaten. I think after these words, someone "there" swallowed nervously. For yourself, you need to understand that no one with a candelabrum will trample on "special" goals. This means that all warheads that can be replaced with "special warheads" will be replaced. Accordingly, in AUG, when it is "close", except for "special warheads" nothing will fly, for lack of need and expediency. Simple warheads will fly at cruisers and destroyers to reduce the effectiveness of their countermeasures. But the most important thing you noted is that this AUG will have nowhere to return and there is no one to defend. They will remain orphans, literally and figuratively.
                      1. +3
                        25 August 2019 18: 06
                        This means that all warheads that can be replaced with "special warheads" will be replaced.
                        The deciding factor will be time. After the exchange of nuclear strikes, not a single submarine or a single plane will go out to sea and take off. This is the same case when after a fight fists are not waved.
                        Another thing is a submarine in an underwater position, if it has missiles with a special warhead, then they can really be used. But there is an agreement that it is impossible to equip ships and submarines with special warheads. It will be difficult to know in advance about the start of the war, and submarine bases are a priority goal.
                        For a long time no one has declared war on each other.
                        But suppose you learned about the war in advance, the boats went to sea in advance too - what would be the point in drowning aircraft carriers, if, as you rightly noted, there would be no return to either.
                        An aircraft carrier is a weapon for local wars. For the global only nuclear weapons are needed - but this means that a global war will not live everyone wants to.
                      2. +2
                        25 August 2019 22: 13
                        Quote: Vadmir
                        For the global only nuclear weapons are needed - but this means that a global war will not live everyone wants to.

                        You are, of course, right, with the only amendment that today a lot is left to technical and intelligence-replacing means. And sometimes they produce false alarms. And today, unfortunately, in a number of cases, people come to the governing bodies of countries and "red buttons" who first shoot and then think. And it seems that no one really wanted..., but they flew.... And aha.
                      3. -1
                        26 August 2019 00: 13
                        Very reasonable. Aircraft carriers are an instrument of "gunboat policy". Banana republics are intimidating. Even North Korea is not afraid of them.
                      4. +1
                        26 August 2019 11: 16
                        Afraid, and even very much. Remember the Incheon landing!
                        Another thing is that relying on China they conduct competent policy.
                        And then the slogan "We will all die, but we will not surrender!" has a rational answer: "so die!"
                        US politicians (not showmen and especially women, but decision-makers) are affected by only one slogan: "We will all die, but you will not see this anymore ..." (it is advisable to confirm on a neutral field, so that it does not seem like a beautiful phrase) ...
                      5. 0
                        26 August 2019 11: 13
                        Quote: Vadmir
                        Aircraft carrier is a weapon for local wars.

                        with obviously weaker adversary (poor air defense)
                      6. +3
                        26 August 2019 12: 56
                        In part, I agree with you, but it is only from such local wars and victories that new allies are born, buyers of weapons and parking for military bases that encircle our country, lock our fleet, block supplies, and put pressure on sanctions. In my opinion, Solon chose this strategy in Ancient Greece. First defeat weak enemies, and then take on the strong, becoming stronger.
                      7. +1
                        26 August 2019 18: 44
                        ... from such local wars and victories new allies are born, buyers of weapons and parking for military bases ...
                        Exactly so, but on this site most of this does not understand for them, submit to the opponents of the United States or China both the army imprisoned for such opponents and weapons. But we will inevitably lose the war with conventional weapons. We have incomparable resources. Against these countries, we have nuclear weapons and a military doctrine in which it is written in black and white that in case of an attack, when the existence of our State is threatened, we will use nuclear weapons.
                        In my opinion, we must build an army focused on local wars that will inevitably be along our borders and not only whether we want it or not.
                        And despite the vulnerability, aircraft carriers will also be useful to us, although not in such quantities as the United States.
                      8. 0
                        26 August 2019 19: 17
                        True thought
                      9. 0
                        26 August 2019 19: 50
                        Quote: Vadmir
                        In my opinion, we must build an army focused on local wars, which will inevitably be along our borders and not only,
                        That is, you are ready to believe that:
                        China
                        Mongolia
                        Kazakhstan
                        Georgia
                        Ukraine
                        Byelorussia
                        Limotrophs
                        Finland
                        Norway
                        able to arrange along our borders, local conflicts between each other or to get impudence and arrange a conflict inland RF?

                        Do you understand that of all these countries, only China can try to start a war with at least some chance of victory? By the way, it’s he who will receive a 100% nuclear strike — we simply won’t cope with its mass with other weapons.

                        Everyone else - understand perfectly - that they have no chance. Just because the RF Armed Forces are strong enough. And the military coalition of them is again guaranteed to be a blow at the anecdote with a club:
                        “Once three heroes and three musketeers met, they decided to compete in daring. The musketeers start the first. D'Artagnan says to Aramis, pointing to Dobrynya:
                        -Aramis, draw a small dot on it with chalk.
                        Aramis goes up to Dobryna, carefully marks a completely invisible point on his chest with chalk. d'Artagnan hits her with a quick lunge. Dobrynya shakes herself off and says:
                        -Alyosha, sprinkle him with chalk, I told him Mace knock "

                        Z. Finns as the most cunning, that’s why they are not in NATO and not with us, they say they don’t owe anything to anyone;
                      10. +5
                        26 August 2019 20: 08
                        Do you believe that in Belarus they will never make a coup, they will not begin to tear this country away from us, and we will not have to intervene in this?
                        Do you believe that an analogue of ISIS will never appear in Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan?
                        And in Kazakhstan, where is a huge number of Russians?
                        Yes, our neighbors will not fight directly with us.
                        But you suggest that we lock ourselves in our borders and not pay attention to what is happening at our very borders?
                        Not to pay attention to how the friendly countries are "democratized" by planes and missiles here and there?
                        So you can stay in splendid isolation with enemies around the perimeter of the borders.
                        Do you really believe that no one will ever try to create separatists inside our multinational country?
                      11. 0
                        27 August 2019 15: 14
                        Dear Sir, what Georgia with Belarus?? Don't you want to remember how much you messed around with the Nokhchi and how it ended?? And where were the Strategic Missile Forces there?
                      12. 0
                        30 March 2021 15: 11
                        Are you not afraid that this "mace" can be shoved deep into us and turned there several times?
                        I suggest you think about this scenario.

                        Japan invades southern Sakhalin and southern Kuriles. The invasion is preceded by a series of provocations with the suffering and / or death of Japanese citizens in these territories.
                        Immediately after the start of the invasion, the United States expresses "deep concern" about what is happening, urging the parties to sit down at the negotiating table and avoid an escalation of the conflict. At the same time, the US KUG and AUG are beginning to flicker along all Russian shores; in addition, the United States secretly (but not particularly hiding) supplies Japan with intelligence about the area of ​​hostilities from satellites and drones; the discussion of the topic of returning Crimea to Ukraine, as well as Poland's territorial claims to Russia, is intensifying.

                        Your actions? Are you going to hit Tokyo with a nuclear missile? Or just across Washington?
                      13. 0
                        30 March 2021 18: 37
                        Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                        Japan invades southern Sakhalin and southern Kuriles. The invasion is preceded by a series of provocations with the suffering and / or death of Japanese citizens in these territories.

                        - it's absolutely feng shui - Japanese citizens died there with or without suffering. This is not up for discussion - if they invaded not even Sakhalin but only a little bit on the edge...

                        are you a positive or negative war scenario?

                        Negative feel

                        Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                        Immediately after the start of the invasion, the United States expresses "deep concern" about what is happening, urging the parties to sit down at the negotiating table and avoid an escalation of the conflict.

                        - we agree to negotiations - but before that we withdraw from the nuclear test ban treaty ...
                        then a couple of three underwater nuclear explosions in OUR Terrvody - and Lavrov apologizes: ".... After the explosions, a tsunami accidentally occurred - which washed away a couple of cities in Japan ..... Russia is even ready to compensate - even if the citizens of Japan collect the relevant certificates. But only in paper form and in Russian - we are bad with computers and translators from Japanese "
                        And then everything depends on USA....either they'll wipe themselves off or, as you correctly noted, straight to Washington...

                        Positive lol

                        We officially announce that ALL supertankers with oil from all countries of the world will sink to Japan. You can even drown a couple, no more ... After that, the owners of ALL world exchanges will make hara-kiri and Biden and the Japanese premiere ... in 20 minutes ... Japanese troops will then flee from the Kuril Islands along the water like dry ...

                        You underestimate the role of the Russian Federation and the United States in the world. These two empires circle each other. Japan perfectly understands whether the United States will intervene or not - the Russian Federation will still hit Japan with something extremely painful .... simply because "Japan invades .. "

                        In today's world it is not at all necessary to attack anywhere with divisions - for a week a container ship was sticking out in the canal in an exemplary manner and world stock exchanges began to shake slightly. All in all...
                        And if you drown a dozen of them there? At the same time with Panama? and once a week to sink the ships trying to steal this case?

                        What happens if the server of the Tokyo Stock Exchange goes to zero from a nuclear strike or a hacker attack? Where will all TNCs end up if suddenly their accounts have 0 (ZERO !!)?
                        And if all the submarine communication cables are damaged by them, the same underwater nuclear explosions (for example), and if all the property and all accounts of all Japanese citizens and legal entities in the Russian Federation are nationalized? or promise to do it by 10 am tomorrow .... it is not yet known what will hit harder - to cut it off right away, or when the Japanese business will drive the Japanese battalions from the Kuriles to the podzhopniki - in order to catch up to 10?

                        In general, sometimes it seems to me that the scale of Russia is underestimated. It seems to you that the Russian Federation was put into a corner and forbidden to respond to the war against us ..
                        "Japanese Citizens, Their Suffering", oha ...

                        and you and they understand perfectly well that in the war with the Russian Federation, the turn will come to nuclear weapons anyway, so a million back and forth burned in their fire during the war with the Russian Federation - "trifles - a matter of everyday life ..." ©
                      14. 0
                        31 March 2021 09: 44
                        Well, let's start with the fact that there will be no tsunami - this is a common myth about underwater nuclear explosions. smile
                        The main thing is that all your options - from these explosions to the sinking of container ships - provide for a forceful frontal response from the Stalin era. And all these measures will instantly give Russia a reputation as a nuclear terrorist and pirate, especially considering that, against the global background, the Russian Federation is not good at PR. If so, then this is an instant political victory for the West and a sharp increase in Russia's isolation and lag. The ultimate dream, huh? In the modern world it is necessary to be softer (I know what is correct after "h") and thinner.
                        The example with Japan, of course, is not ideal - I didn’t really think about it for months, I just imagined a small war on the periphery of the Russian Federation, in which the West, represented, first of all, by the United States, does not directly participate in the war, but semi-officially supports our enemy and does not recommend Russia to bring the matter to vigorous loaves. Not necessarily Sakhalin - it could be North Korea, if the West decides that Russia desperately will stand up for its "strategic ally" (and there is no need to tell here that the United States is afraid of Korean nuclear missiles. They, of course, are afraid - but "we are sure that Comrade Mao himself (in the sense, Kim Jong Ym is V.S.) / / By God, he really, really wants to live "(c) and the fate of Gaddafi does not tempt him) ... In general, I ask you not to find fault with specific examples.
                        What do you mean by "swing"? So far, Russia is only is trying to portray something on the world stage - it turns out mediocre, but better this way than nothing. But I would not want to get into this jungle, because I wanted to say only one thing: do not underestimate the possibility of a local conventional conflict, which will not outgrow into an atomic war as a means of pressure on Russia. And this should be avoided not by shaking with a nuclear dildo, but by gradually and gently increasing participation in acute world problems - which our government seems to have begun to understand (see Syria).
                      15. 0
                        31 March 2021 10: 11
                        Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                        I just imagined a small war on the periphery of the Russian Federation, in which the West, represented, first of all, by the United States does not directly participate in the war, but semi-officially supports our adversary and does not recommend Russia to bring matters to the core

                        Everything is simple to the point of madness - even the USSR (towards the end) - would not have been able to handle a conventional war with a more or less large state without nuclear weapons...

                        What is a full state tank army in the Far East? Yes, there is nothing - for several thousand kilometers of the Far East.
                        BAM ditch is not that easy, but possible.
                        And what will the USSR do in the event of an invasion by the PRC or Japan? Is it possible to resist? No...
                        And now the Russian Federation, in principle, economically, such a war will not pull ...
                        And there remains only either nuclear weapons or container ships or a stock exchange or something else of the same plan.
                        (In Novorossiysk, only 12 days, boats (6 pieces) with tomatoes stood under inspection, rotted away and the Turkish business immediately explained to Erdogan that he was the Sultan, but in this case he was wrong, very wrong ... And the Sultan started something like that babble ....)
                        The opposite option - Biden blurted out without being able to think and the ruble sank. similar against them and it will be necessary to implement

                        Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                        ... And all these measures will instantly give Russia a reputation as a nuclear terrorist and pirate,
                        - I repeat- if something serious attacks the Russian Federation, we will have to fight for our survival, right away... And I don't care any reputation after that, right away and forever ...
                        Whole world
                        Quote: your1970
                        perfectly understands whether the United States will or will not stand up - the Russian Federation will still hit something extremely painfully on Japan....just because "Japan invades .. "
                      16. 0
                        31 March 2021 12: 26
                        And I will repeat again that on us will not be to attack someone serious and our conversation is not at all about the war for survival. You wrote above that our small neighbors cannot pose us problems - I tried to show that a small war near our borders can become a solid hemorrhoid for the Russian Federation.
                        And by the way, you shouldn't think that in a war for survival all means are good, because you should always think about your reputation in the POST-war world. For example, nuclear weapons strikes on cities are a very, very bad means. smile Or, for example, during WWII, not a single power, even in the most acute moments, used SDYAV, although huge reserves were accumulated in the interwar period and both their use and protection from them were constantly being worked out ...
                      17. 0
                        31 March 2021 14: 23
                        Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                        I repeat again that we will not be attacked by someone serious

                        Who! Lithuania and others? Georgia? All others have a significant territory and a large population.
                        Along our borders there are no NOT serious states (in our current state).
                        Even if someone not serious attacks us, the losses of weapons and military equipment will be large enough, and our army is too small to occupy anything larger than the Limitrofs.
                        Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                        reputation in the POST-WAR world, you always have to think about it. For example, nuclear weapons strikes on cities are a very, very bad means. Or, for example, during WWII, not a single power, even in the most critical moments, used nuclear weapons,
                        at that time, the volume of BOV did not allow to destroy even a million or two .... Everyone understood perfectly well that the war was ordinary, the forces were approximately equal - well, the Red Army retreated to the Urals or the Wehrmacht captured the Island, it happens, you can negotiate and demand reparations. Everything is according to the rules of an ORDINARY war - where the reputation you mention is important ...

                        And now no one will be chucking ....

                        If tomorrow China crosses the border with an army of 3 million, it will be impossible for us (and the USSR) to stop them. Simply because we do not have such resources either in Siberia or in the Far East...
                        And China understands perfectly well that we have nothing to stop it, even in theory - and we will beat nuclear weapons at large nodes, cities and the advancing army ... Forced we will ...

                        And a small war can arise only when the existence of the Russian Federation as a state is not threatened by anything - conditionally Syria or 08.08.08 ...
                      18. -3
                        26 August 2019 21: 25
                        The army for local wars does not fail, because then it is possible from our country, without threatening its existence (whatever rockets would be) to start gnawing off pieces, and then the remainder will no longer have dough for the Strategic Missile Forces and willpower for their use!

                        You do not start the apocalypse because of, for example, the Crimea? And you cannot defend Crimea with an army for local wars.
                      19. 0
                        26 August 2019 23: 10
                        The army for local wars does not fail, because
                        Well, suppose a compact army cannot protect our country from biting off territories. I do not argue, but the population of our country does not allow us to have a multi-million army. Both China and NATO are capable of putting up an army of significantly larger sizes against Russia. Their economic potential, human resources leave us no chance.
                        The question is, which is better: to have an army preparing for a war with NATO, but at the same time poorly coping with local challenges, or an army preparing for local wars?
                        And the first and second will inevitably lose to NATO or China. In local conflicts, the first will suffer unnecessary losses, will not be able to act at a great distance from the border, and the second, on the contrary, will easily win victories in local conflicts.
                        So, what's the point of holding the first army if it is not capable of either winning the great war or
                        efficient waging small wars?
                        The question is, what is the difference between such armies?
                        For a big war, you need a lot of simple and technologically advanced equipment, simple weapons, a bulky structure, and bloated states. Acquisition of conscripts. Huge mobilization reserves, NVP in schools.
                        For small wars, complex and expensive equipment is needed to minimize losses and increase efficiency, a comparatively smaller number of well-trained contract soldiers. Aircraft carriers and UDC.
                        Personally, I am more impressed with the army of the second type, but for the bite-off territory we have tactical nuclear weapons.
                      20. 0
                        27 August 2019 01: 06
                        The army is not able to protect against biting off its territories, is not capable of local conflict too! What is such an army on foreign territory to do?
                        War on a foreign land is a defense of your interests, if you cannot protect your land, what interests can be discussed at all?

                        There needs to be a balance in everything, the army should be such that the enemy would first think whether the game is worth the candle! And the country could live in this case
                      21. 0
                        26 August 2019 21: 50
                        Quote: Alexey G
                        In my opinion, Solon chose this strategy in Ancient Greece

                        which one?
                        Dressing up in women (salamis) in and suddenly taking over the city?
                        Or landing on a single ship?
                        One of the "7 Greatest Sages of Ancient Greece" very skillfully applied different strategies ..
                      22. -1
                        26 August 2019 08: 56
                        I fully support your and the previous comment. If it comes to a real conflict, then for the sailors of the United States there will come a "water world" - there was such a h.f.
                      23. 0
                        26 August 2019 09: 22
                        Quote: Andrei Gurov
                        If it comes to a real conflict, then for the us sailors there will come a "water world" - there was such a h.f.

                        Maybe, in the best case. But I think it will be even tougher. And not only for the US sailors. I think that the radioactive dust released into the wild will eventually lead to a global mutation of all living things that do not die in the first months of the conflict. And all the remaining minds will be absorbed not by development and prosperity, but by cleaning up the decaying radioactive corpses and facilitating their own death. IMHO
                      24. +2
                        26 August 2019 12: 39
                        In this case, Putin informed the whole world, including the "civilized" one, that decision points would be hit. I think after these words someone "there" swallowed nervously.

                        Decision-making points are not so easy to get, they can be moved to a prepared place, where anything is very far away, before making a decision.
                        You noted that with this AUG there will be nowhere to return and no one to defend.


                        The fleet does not have to be shipped to the states. Amers have many naval bases around the global world, where they are at home.
                        And they will defend the surviving global elite. I hope few here believe that the US military is protecting the American people. If that were the case, then nuclear weapons would have long been destroyed as anti-people !!
                        just the existence of such a weapon and its buildup proves that the capitalist world is organized according to the theories as a whole correctly reflected by Marx !! Elites do not care about the masses. they will save their skins and find new slaves among the survivors ...
                      25. +4
                        26 August 2019 12: 58
                        Quote: Alexey G
                        Decision-making points are not so easy to get, they can be moved to a prepared place, where anything is very far away, before making a decision.

                        Decision-making points are a very vague and broad concept. This is far from just a ZKP hidden under some Cheyenne Mountain. These are also the people who manage the financial and economic activities of the entire Western world. And they have very specific names, addresses, physical locations and locations of their service centers. And this is not just the United States, supposedly covered by missile defense systems. All the vulnerabilities of the management and beneficiaries of financial and industrial groups cannot be covered. One can only guess where the incinerating power of a nuclear power will be aimed. And if the head of the House of Rothschild, for example, manages to hide in a bunker, then what good will it do him if only the jacket on him remains intact, and his entire powerful apparatus with information about debts and resources melts away in a nuclear fog? Who will need him, what will be his strength?
                      26. +1
                        26 August 2019 13: 12
                        Good question!!! Maybe they want to get out and become new pharaohs over those who survived ??
                        But someone will survive. And I think they have some kind of plan ...
                      27. +2
                        26 August 2019 13: 32
                        Quote: Alexey G
                        Maybe they want to get out and become new pharaohs over those who survived ??

                        I don’t think so. The modern world elite is accustomed precisely to the modern volume and forms of consumption. Being surrounded by mutants and eating foods from which the Geiger counter goes off scale is hardly a prospect for them.
                        Quote: Alexey G
                        And I think they have some kind of plan ...

                        There is a plan, and it is simple - continue to whip up hysteria to increase sales of what they are used to and are set to produce. I will not be surprised if it turns out that some of the "Tomahawks" are actually made of wood. So what? Some of them will have to be disposed of when their terms expire. Iran, for example, will not have to launch all of them, will it? So, the Ministry of Defense bought something, then disposed of this something (by mutual agreement). And everyone is happy... That's the whole plan. laughing
                      28. 0
                        26 August 2019 15: 29
                        Then the first roles will be played by people who can craft stone axes and beat them on the heads ... with the destruction of the control system, the pharaohs are no longer needed
                      29. 0
                        26 August 2019 18: 52
                        Elites do not care about the masses. they will save their skins and find new slaves among the survivors ...
                        I do not agree, the masses are a resource. The less resources, the less money and power. Yes, and this very elite wants to live not in the bunker, but in the fresh air, the cage, even the golden one, remains a cage. That is why a global nuclear war is extremely unlikely.
                      30. 0
                        26 August 2019 19: 07
                        Yes Imagine that there is no one left on the planet. You and a small group of people about 15 years old sat in a bunker in a shikaronm, as in the film philosophers, if you watched of course. You go out and your whole world !! Yes, there are no millions of masses, but why are they? They are always bubbling, they want something, they yell, they declare themselves. And here they are not and all yours. And you know how to build a new world better.
                        you, as a survivor after the flood, can start all over again, enter yourself in a new Bible! To say a new human race came from me, from the new Noah. And who will know the old ??? Only you are the Rothschilds.
                        and money, so new it will be possible to slap or call them differently. You will become co-creators of a new universe. And when you have a lot of dough you want other pleasures, not these earthly ones, but new sensations, Divine.
                    2. -2
                      25 August 2019 15: 02
                      Quote: your1970
                      Quote: Uhu
                      And why the heck to drown him? !!!
                      -the trick is that if it comes to the need to stoke the AUG, then there will be no sense in this. This will mean that the war ALREADY In this situation, spending something on some separate ships makes no sense - there is no half of America (I hope, at least)
                      Well, swim and swim - a demon would be with them ... there’s nowhere to pester ...

                      In 39 g, Germany had so many chemical weapons that it would be enough for the entire USSR, so how? Strongly used? ... And all because the USSR had the same amount. A point can have a bite of scrap, but it will not reach a decision on the use of nuclear weapons.
                      1. 0
                        25 August 2019 15: 16
                        Quote: Vol4ara
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Uhu
                        And why the heck to drown him? !!!
                        -the trick is that if it comes to the need to stoke the AUG, then there will be no sense in this. This will mean that the war ALREADY In this situation, spending something on some separate ships makes no sense - there is no half of America (I hope, at least)
                        Well, swim and swim - a demon would be with them ... there’s nowhere to pester ...

                        In 39 g, Germany had so many chemical weapons that it would be enough for the entire USSR, so how? Strongly used? ... And all because the USSR had the same amount. A point can have a bite of scrap, but it will not reach a decision on the use of nuclear weapons.

                        that is, do you seriously believe that NATO tanks will crawl at us?
                        "Die erste Kolonne marschiert, die zweite Kolonne marschiert ..." © L. Tolstoy
                        ??
                        The Wehrmacht (a much more stable structure - and not a bunch of countries that do not have a common dictator-leader), and then, as if stuck feel in USSR....
                        And I'm still silent about the panic on the exchanges ....
                        Yes to anyone who starts a war SUCH scope - world capital will have a throat snack in a split second
                        just imagine that the UGS facilities are bombed into zero, and the main gas pipelines are blown up and burning. This means that you will have to pay for gas not in Euros, but in Dollars, which automatically will lead to the collapse of the European currency.
                        Already this will be head over heels so that Europe would kick the United States outwards ...
                      2. 0
                        25 August 2019 15: 28
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Vol4ara
                        Quote: your1970
                        Quote: Uhu
                        And why the heck to drown him? !!!
                        -the trick is that if it comes to the need to stoke the AUG, then there will be no sense in this. This will mean that the war ALREADY In this situation, spending something on some separate ships makes no sense - there is no half of America (I hope, at least)
                        Well, swim and swim - a demon would be with them ... there’s nowhere to pester ...

                        In 39 g, Germany had so many chemical weapons that it would be enough for the entire USSR, so how? Strongly used? ... And all because the USSR had the same amount. A point can have a bite of scrap, but it will not reach a decision on the use of nuclear weapons.

                        that is, do you seriously believe that NATO tanks will crawl at us?
                        "Die erste Kolonne marschiert, die zweite Kolonne marschiert ..." © L. Tolstoy
                        ??
                        The Wehrmacht (a much more stable structure - and not a bunch of countries that do not have a common dictator-leader), and then, as if stuck feel in USSR....
                        And I'm still silent about the panic on the exchanges ....
                        Yes to anyone who starts a war SUCH scope - world capital will have a throat snack in a split second
                        just imagine that the UGS facilities are bombed into zero, and the main gas pipelines are blown up and burning. This means that you will have to pay for gas not in Euros, but in Dollars, which automatically will lead to the collapse of the European currency.
                        Already this will be head over heels so that Europe would kick the United States outwards ...

                        What are you talking about?
                      3. +1
                        25 August 2019 20: 04
                        If capital is threatened, even the Kennedy's may fail a second time.
                      4. +1
                        26 August 2019 07: 25
                        get it first, and then fill it up a second time
                      5. +2
                        26 August 2019 07: 25
                        not in euros and bucks, but in gold ... Cut paper will not interest anyone, even for the toilet.
                      6. 0
                        27 August 2019 04: 09
                        Quote: besik
                        not in euros and bucks, but in gold ... Cut paper will not interest anyone, even for the toilet.

                        the little gold will go where the cut paper is.
                      7. 0
                        27 August 2019 05: 56
                        if the toilet is meant, this is not the whole truth. He will go to the toilet and to the necessary things except the toilet.
                      8. -1
                        26 August 2019 11: 22
                        Nobody is going to listen to an atomized Euro-bedding, devoid of the will to fight even with migrants. Whom will they (each for himself!) Yes, their punitive Poles, with US technical support from the sea and from the air, extremize at once!
                        And the panic on the exchanges is the very thing for the one who foresees it.
                      9. 0
                        26 August 2019 13: 33
                        It’s also reasonable. I agree.
                    3. +1
                      26 August 2019 06: 50
                      You forget that the bulk of the US nuclear potential is located on these individual ships.
                  2. +1
                    25 August 2019 16: 27
                    Quote: kiborg
                    You can form gangs

                    And where are you going to send the Gang swim? fool
                    Or have you completely forgotten that this is a war at sea? and the problem of drowning an aircraft carrier?
                2. 0
                  26 August 2019 07: 17
                  Quote: apro
                  But they take the oath of allegiance to SGA .. do not underestimate the stubbornness of the enemy in achieving their goals. And do not trust Amer’s propaganda ..

                  It's all about the system of power. More precisely, the electoral system. Only one group of capitalists that came to power allows the bloodletting of the electorate by another group (party) that declares itself blue and this leads to the almost automatic resignation of the first and the almost automatic arrival of the second.
                  Do you think the anti-war movements during the Vietnam War were so independent?
                  On the other hand, the mechanism of zombie and fooling of the electorate is so developed that it is able to involve the masses in the conflict. But it is only the involvement of a significant mass of society in the conflict that will allow society to open its eyes to the true causes of conflicts.
            2. -2
              25 August 2019 09: 35
              Channel on YouTube Rudenko and to confirm this
            3. +1
              26 August 2019 16: 36
              They do not serve aircraft carriers for citizenship.
          2. 0
            26 August 2019 10: 33
            The article is far-fetched. Recently there was an article about modern dreadnoughts that need to be built. In terms of content and theses, it is very reminiscent of this series. Aug, I agree, is a tough nut to crack. And an aircraft carrier does not go alone without a retinue. Yes, an aircraft carrier is a tenacious bastard, but experience in war and emergencies has shown that a damaged ship is no longer a fighter in full and needs to be put in for repairs. No one has ruled out luck. One shell was enough for the hood to come to the bottom. And Yamate has four torpedoes. A damaged expensive aircraft carrier will still be taken out of the combat zone for at least cosmetic repairs. So as not to risk such a valuable ship. The loss of one aircraft carrier is a colossal hole in the budget.
            1. 0
              26 August 2019 11: 29
              Well, let’s put Yamato caught 9-11 aviation torpedoes plus the same amount of bombs of 1000 pounds.
              When war is on, the budget is secondary. Important industrial and raw materials potential, as well as mobilization ability. And most importantly, the Anglo-Saxons profess:
              - You can lose many battles, but be sure to win the last;
              - the winner gets EVERYTHING!
              1. -1
                26 August 2019 15: 48
                Yes, it screwed up, to be more precise, Yamato received 10 torpedoes and 13 bombs. Modern large-scale wars will not be as protracted as the Second World War. When the US riveted 10 aircraft carriers and another
                Twice as many escort carriers. Even a small missile is enough to send a damaged ship for repairs. Completely unavoidable.
                1. +2
                  27 August 2019 04: 13
                  Quote: insafufa
                  Even a small rocket is enough for a damaged ship to sail for repairs. Completely flowing

                  do not confuse peacetime with war, after one rocket they will patch up the deck and go on a mission. What are they hinting to you in the article ....
                  1. +1
                    27 August 2019 06: 56
                    The story of Bismarck doesn’t teach you anything either. Instead of getting injured, turning Lutenz went to the Volkholl at all times. The same thing happened with Scharnhorst, the completion of the task to the end after the damage was caused death.
                    1. 0
                      28 August 2019 06: 02
                      Quote: insafufa
                      The story of Bismarck doesn’t teach you anything either. Instead of getting injured, turning Lutenz went to the Volkholl at all times. The same thing happened with Scharnhorst, the completion of the task to the end after the damage was caused death.

                      you still remember the Spanish galions No.
                2. 0
                  3 September 2019 12: 01
                  Quote: insafufa
                  Yes, he screwed up, to be more precise, Yamato received 10 torpedoes and 13 bombs. Modern large-scale wars will not be as protracted as the Second World War. When the US riveted 10 aircraft carriers and twice as many escort carriers. Even a small missile is enough for a damaged ship to sail for repairs. Completely consequential.

                  In the second world USA, every three days a destroyer, cruiser, or aircraft carrier was launched.
                  In 1943, Japan built one real aircraft carrier and two escorts, and the US launched 15 real aircraft carriers and 50 (fifty) escorts. "Real" ones were ships originally built as aircraft carriers. Escorts were converted from civilian ships, or built using dry cargo ship technology, with a flight deck. But cheap. The US knew that they would bombard Japan with aircraft carriers, and by the way, they churned out more than 170 destroyers during the war.
                  In 1943, the USA built the most, in 1944 there were 6 aircraft carriers, and 42 escort carriers, in other years it is noticeably smaller, in 45 - 8 aircraft carriers, and 13 escort aircraft carriers, in 42 g - one real, and 17 escort
            2. +2
              26 August 2019 16: 46
              I agree absolutely. One kinetic energy of "granite" is enough to make a hole, so three meters.
              And with a warhead, even more so. And 15 mm, 25 and 45 mm became "cardboard" for a missile that flies at supersonic speed.
            3. +4
              27 August 2019 03: 56
              Quote: insafufa
              The article is all behind the curve.

              The article is detailed, with facts just about combat stability for specific threats and scenarios, and your comment on luck, one shell and comparison with 2yMV battleships has already been pulled for something else.
              Quote: insafufa
              Damaged expensive aircraft carrier will vseravno withdrawn from the battle zone to repair at least cosmetic. In order not to risk such a valuable ship. The loss of one aircraft carrier is a huge budget hole.

              That is, if during a serious conflict, with an adversary who can attack the AUG, the aircraft carrier gets a crazy rocket on the deck and, accordingly, a hole, then the AUG, in spite of the fighting efficiency, will simply turn around and rush home?))
              1. 0
                3 September 2019 12: 14
                The protection of the AUG is not endless, it can intercept a couple of dozen missiles at once with a high or low probability. Some citizens mistakenly think that all these missiles will be Granites, of which Russia does not have that many. No!!! In the first salvo, missiles will fly that do not pose a threat to the AUG, although they will spoil the paint on the ports decently ... Some themselves will not reach, but will explode at a distance, blinding the radars ... And then from behind the curtain, very quickly, leaving no time for reaction, the mentioned "Granites" will fly out, or their mother is so "Zircons" ... The unsinkability of the AUG is the same fairy tale as the flight to the moon. Lying Americans are great masters.
          3. 0
            30 March 2021 14: 52
            [quote = Nyrobsky] [quote = apro] they are very kind to saving their skin. [/ quote]
            Like it's something bad ...
            And you, of course, can give examples of operations that failed because of the desire of the Americans to "preserve their own skin"? laughing
            1. +1
              30 March 2021 15: 07
              [quote = Vitaly Scorpio] [quote = Nyrobsky] [quote = apro] they are very kind to saving their skin. [/ quote]
              Like it's something bad ...
              And you, of course, can give examples of operations that failed because of the desire of Americans to "preserve their own skin"? laughing[/ Quote]

              Can you quote the part of my comment where I mentioned the failed operation? I just pointed out that the lives of the civilian population affected during mattress operations are not important for them, as well as the lives of their allies, whom they prefer to use in the first echelon. The same operation to liberate Mosul, promoted by the United States, was carried out by Iraqi forces, Kurdish military formations and the forces of the Shiite people's militia, but the victory, like, was achieved only thanks to the "unshakable" will of the mattresses, which, if they contributed, then only in the fact that 3/4 of the city was turned into ruins and thousands of civilians of the city were buried under themselves with the "help" of mattress aircraft.
              1. +1
                30 March 2021 18: 12
                There was a discussion of the Americans' "unacceptable losses". In this vein, I considered your words about "saving the skin" - as an indication that they are ready to refuse to fight in order to save this. If you made a mistake - sorry.
                And why do we need allies if not to pass the losses onto them? request "As if it were something bad" - 2 wink The Kurds, Iraqis and others are locals, so let them fight for their lands with air support...
                1. +1
                  30 March 2021 18: 14
                  Quote: Vitaly Scorpio
                  What else do we need allies for, if not to shift the losses onto them? "As if that's something bad" - 2 Kurds, Iraqis and others are locals, so let them fight for their lands with air support...

                  As a matter of fact, I wrote about this, only in other words drinks
        2. + 12
          25 August 2019 11: 01
          Quote: apro
          Americans are able to spit on losses if you really need to.

          When during the bombing of Germany, the losses of American bombers reached critical levels, the Americans doubled the number of sorties and German air defense collapsed, and the losses of bombers became acceptable.
          Plus the second point. The Americans used large combat formations, when bombs from upper echelon aircraft could hit (and sometimes did hit) lower echelon aircraft. But they did this to reduce the time the aircraft spent in the anti-aircraft fire zone and to reduce overall losses.
          1. -1
            25 August 2019 22: 35
            Ok, the aircraft carrier is a tough nut, but if you add the Add-in, Onyx to the command cabin, for example, then the result is a pelvis with eroplans in the cellars ...
            1. +1
              26 August 2019 01: 29
              the aircraft carrier has a second backup command cabin!
              1. +3
                26 August 2019 08: 47
                a backup command cabin!...there are no backup command cabins on the boxes, there is a ZKP (spare command post), usually located in the steering compartment and is only needed to control the BZZ and the ship's exit to a safe zone, that is, there can be no talk of any combat operations in the event of a transition to the ZKP
          2. -1
            26 August 2019 15: 56
            They revised tactics and voluminous construction was not a panacea. Just the Mustangs began to accompany throughout the flight.
        3. 0
          28 August 2019 15: 31
          Can Americans spit on losses? Who whispered this to you? This can be, if they attack the hare with the whole code. But if the lion? The lion will be confused - who will be the first to catch?
        4. 0
          7 September 2019 04: 59
          "Unacceptable losses" are not people, but material values, which is the aircraft carrier itself. If there is a threat of sinking at least part of the AUG, the Americans will not even twitch there.
      2. +8
        25 August 2019 10: 53
        Quote: Aerodrome
        one aircraft carrier will be destroyed, no matter how, I think the rest will be afraid to go to the database areas

        Read the history of the Pacific War. Particularly interesting, in light of your statement, is the initial stage, when the Japanese had numerical superiority.
      3. +1
        25 August 2019 11: 19
        But the war between the states and Japan taught you nothing? Americans are much faster than no one capable of recovering losses and creating a numerical military advantage.
        1. +1
          25 August 2019 20: 22
          Americans are much faster than no one capable of recovering losses and creating a numerical military advantage.


          Those days are gone, and now even the racial and national composition has changed, I'm not talking about the gender composition of the US Navy.

          So do not build illusions, everything will be different, well, if you do not look at American fighters about cool machos - just a macho for the entire fleet is not enough.

          Although automation, electronic warfare, and the concept of network-centric warfare will greatly change the picture of naval conflict.
          1. +1
            26 August 2019 11: 35
            Do not have illusions.
            With the outbreak of hostilities in the United States, a brutal dictatorship (under the guise of democracy, of course) will be established, which will very quickly carry out the "final decision" against the unreliable population. Rednecks will be thrown into the punitive squads, and an organized force will always sweep away any unorganized resistance.
        2. 0
          25 August 2019 21: 52
          Well, what did they rake so abruptly in Korea from one regiment of Kozhedub, and in Vietnam, in general, suffered wild losses?
        3. 0
          26 August 2019 01: 39
          the Japanese did not have the opportunity then to destroy the infrastructure in America. to prevent them from recovering.
          1. -1
            26 August 2019 08: 54
            the Japanese had no opportunity to destroy the infrastructure on the American mainland at that time, .....they had the opportunity to dig in in Hawaii and then methodically strike at the continental America, but they preferred to jump like fleas on the islands of the Western Pacific, chasing away the numerous garrisons of British colonial troops, they themselves are to blame for their stupidity
            1. +1
              26 August 2019 13: 52
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              ..... the opportunity was to dig in the harbors

              And merge the capture of SEA. After which the Japanese could only sit without oil and surrender in six months.
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              and then methodically strike at the continental amerson

              How to apply? Basic aviation to Hawaii and from Hawaii flies one way and without load.
              The worst thing for IJN is that Japan would have only 2-3 aircraft carriers left on deck based on a hypothetical Hawaiian landing. Even the first raid - on unbroken air defense - cost the Japanese 55 cars and 55 crew members. The second raid will meet the already fully deployed army ZA (only stationary batteries at forts participated in the reflection of the first raid, and 3/4 air defense guns were in artillery parks), the fully ready naval ZA (MPUOZO and power drives did not work in the first raid) and raised into the air fighters driven from the ground.
              And now we recall that for the attack on PX on six AB all the combat-ready pilots of carrier-based aircraft were assembled. The graduation of pilots of naval aviation is 100 people per year. The production of equipment also does not shine - in 1942, EMNIP, deck torpers were released about a hundred and a half. And what will IJN have for the next year of the war after such a landing in Pearl Harbor?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. 0
                  26 August 2019 18: 09
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  Well, wax development of oil on the shelves of SEA began after WWII

                  What does the shelf have to do with it? At the end of the 30s of the last century after the United States, the Dutch oil colonies in Southeast Asia and Borneo were the main oil producing region. This is what the Japanese aimed at.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  But as for HR, the question arises. and what then halfa midway huddled pretty powerful Japanese group ?????

                  Yes, because a large landing operation in Southeast Asia was already in the final phase. And Yamamoto's nosebleed had to be neutralized again by the United States Pacific Fleet. To do this, he planned to lure the remains of this fleet into a general battle - and destroy it. The raid of Doolittle and the Coral Sea were not to be repeated. And Midway was as bait.
                  At the same time, it was not particularly planned to hold Midway - the island was within the reach of the B-24 with Oahu.
                  And one more thing: after Midway, Kido Butai did not have to rush to the Metropolis urgently to support the next landing - as it was after the PX.
                  Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
                  not really it is necessary to have seven spans in the forehead so that this group would not be used in the capture of the Hawaiians?

                  Do not confuse a pair of flat islands of Midway with Oahu, which can be shot through from a machine gun, and even long-range 16 "southern forts can hardly reach its northern coast. A simple question is where to get a transport fleet for three divisions to capture the island, if one division is landing on such a shoulder. requires about 50 transports and 10 tankers?
                  1. 0
                    27 August 2019 20: 49
                    At the end of the 30s of the last century after the United States, the Dutch oil colonies in Southeast Asia and Borneo were the main oil producing region. .... might be. but in 1942 when they finally occupied the SEA, they already began to receive huge zvizdyule from striped., so that oil, as it were, had nothing to do with
                    Midway was bait ... bullshit, Japs fucked up and that's it
              2. 0
                27 August 2019 13: 52
                You are confusing something, the Japanese lost 29 aircraft. Crew - yes, 55 pilots lost. The rest is true, unless you should overestimate FOR, especially the naval one, at the beginning of the war only the dead did not kick the fleet’s anti-aircraft guns ... But the fighters ... There weren’t any left in the fleet, but the base one before Zero was like before Papeete. However, there were 3 more aircraft carriers of the US Navy. And here was the main threat to Nagumo’s formation, since its aircraft carriers could not work on 2-3 fronts, plus Amer’s submarines.
                1. 0
                  27 August 2019 17: 20
                  Quote: Zvonarev
                  You are confusing something, the Japanese lost 29 aircraft.

                  Hehe hehe ... these are the grimaces of Japanese statistics. 29 aircraft - this is shot down over the target or not reached the AB. In short - it is not returned to the deck. They are usually written in loss.
                  But the fact is that another 111 cars returned to the AB with various injuries. And 26 of them were declared non-repairable. And about these 26, everyone is usually forgotten.
                  In general, the situation with losses is as follows:
                  The first wave lost 21 vehicles: 9 shot down over the target (especially the AB "Kaga" group - 2 A6M2, 5 B5N2), 12 decommissioned (11 of them B5N).
                  The second - already 34: 20 shot down over the target (and again in the "leading" Kaga - 2 A6M2, 6 D3A1), 14 - decommissioned (all D3A1).
                  Quote: Zvonarev
                  The rest is true, unless you should overestimate FOR, especially the naval one, at the beginning of the war only the dead did not kick the fleet's anti-aircraft guns ...

                  At the beginning of the war, even on some LKs in the nests of the MZA there were 3 "anti-aircraft guns from the last war. Even the American industry for ten years was unable to make normal ship MZA and saturate the fleet with them. smile
                  But that's not the point. The basis of the air defense of USN ships was a bunch of 5 "/ 38 or 5" / 25 and MPUAZO. Without MPUAZO 5 "guns were practically useless - according to the apt remark of the commander of AB Enterprise, in autonomous mode these guns were only suitable for firing horizontal bombers at medium altitudes, and then the horizontal and vertical gunners were trying to aim at different targets all the time. smile So, in the first raid MPOZO did not work - the only guidance system was a pair of eyes and a brain. But by the second raid, they should already have been equipped and launched. So at least with long-range air defense, the fleet would have been not so sad as in the morning.
                  Quote: Zvonarev
                  And the fighters ... There weren’t any left in the fleet, and the basic one before Zero was like before Papeete.

                  After the raid, 27 combat-ready "axes" remained in the ranks. Another 30 were considered "damaged", and some of them could have been restored. And most importantly, the Island's air defense control remained intact. So with a report from the radar station about the "high mark", the fighters would have someone to direct.
                  Quote: Zvonarev
                  However, there were 3 more aircraft carriers of the US Navy. And here was the main threat to the Nagumo formation, since its aircraft carriers could not work on 2-3 fronts, plus amer submarines.

                  Two AB. "Sarah" was traditionally for her under repair - she generally managed to regularly get into repairs before each big batch. smile
            2. 0
              27 August 2019 18: 47
              Quote: Crimean partisan 1974
              the opportunity was to dig in in Hawaii and then methodically strike at the continental Amerson,

              The Japanese tried to "dig in" in Midway Atoll and lost 4 aircraft carriers.
              An attempt to land in the Hawaiian Islands would undoubtedly cost a lot more.
      4. 0
        25 August 2019 17: 52
        Yes, in general, they, aircraft carriers, and now do not come closer than the actions of our PC missiles.
        1. 0
          26 August 2019 01: 43
          ... except for "calibers".
          1. 0
            1 September 2019 13: 37
            Quote: mrNRGY
            ..except "calibers".

            Choi then? or are you going to work on 3m14 ships ???
            So 3m14 work only for stationary purposes. but 3m54 work on ships. but their range is already much more modest and no more than the range of the same granites
      5. +4
        26 August 2019 11: 07
        You underestimate the enemy, and this is extremely dangerous. In your opinion, after Pearl Harbor, the Philippines and the Coral Sea, the Americans should not have taken any chances with Midway.
        If the KNS decided to fight, then the American sailors will do this, despite the losses. And they know how to fight for vitality.
    2. +9
      25 August 2019 11: 08
      Quote: Dalny V
      Far V (Mikhail)
      How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier?
      Weird question.

      How the cards will fall.
      In the war with Japan, one of the U.S. aircraft carriers died after hitting a single 227kg caliber bomb.
      The other stayed afloat after detonation of the anti-aircraft gun ammunition, explosions in the hangar of refueling aircraft with ammunition and after the detonation of a torpedo cellar. The death toll on the aircraft carrier and on the guarding guard ships exceeded 800 people. After the elimination of the fires, it was delivered to the United States and declared unsuitable for recovery.
      1. +1
        26 August 2019 13: 58
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        In the war with Japan, one of the U.S. aircraft carriers died after hitting a single 227kg caliber bomb.

        The aircraft carrier "Akagi" was lost after being hit by a single 454 kg bomb. All in all, the aircraft carrier was attacked by three dive bombers (due to the mess with the distribution of the target, arranged by McCluskey).
        A 5-kg bomb from the plane of Richard Halsey Best, lieutenant of the U.S. Navy, commander of the 2th bomber squadron, fell into the rear edge of the central airlift, followed by a gap in the upper hangar among the loaded and armed torpedo bombers of the B454N6. The Kroeger bomb exploded on impact 5–10 meters from the left side of the Akagi, directly opposite the island. The geyser of the water raised by the explosion and the blast wave cut off the radio antennas; The Weber bomb, striking along the left edge of the flight deck in the stern, also exploded in the water, bending this edge up and severely damaging the left handlebar of the aircraft carrier. It was possible that some starboard aft were also flooded, but there was no Armageddon in the stern, and there couldn’t be any - there were no hangars under the flight deck, just as there was no huge crowd of aircraft on the flight deck itself. As a result of the expansion of the fragments of this bomb, 1 person died, the damage was rated as "minimal"
    3. 0
      25 August 2019 11: 51
      Quote: Dalny V
      Weird question.

      How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier? 1 torpedo with YaBCh
    4. +4
      25 August 2019 20: 44
      In fact, McCain is an accident, but the fact is that the launch of an anti-aircraft missile led to huge losses. The author apparently understands very little about what a Granit warhead explosion deep in a ship is. And Granit explodes deep under the deck - a heavy package penetrates more than 20 meters of bulkheads before detonation! Yes, 2-3 hits of such warheads and even such a large ship will be reliably disabled. At the same time, I am not talking about a "golden shot". Yes, you can think of places where even after 3-4 hits the ship will remain in service, but the probability of this is very small, as is the probability of completely destroying it from the first.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 22: 10
        Quote: sH, arK
        Granite explodes deep beneath the deck - a heavy package pierces over 20 meters of bulkheads before detonation! Yes, 2-3 hits of such warheads and even such a large ship will be reliably disabled

        Not so simple. In 1977, the R-12 rocket hit the Bainbridge cruiser at an acute angle in the bow. A warhead weighing about a ton jerked inside the cruiser (with a displacement of only 8000 tons), one of the engines flew right through and made a hole in the side about 8 meters long below the waterline.
        From a fire that has arisen, the stock of SAM missiles has been detonated. This is about 2,5 tons of warheads, plus rocket fuel of 40 missiles.
        Nevertheless, the cruiser remained afloat and on the go. The fire was eliminated.
        1. +1
          26 August 2019 07: 30
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          Quote: sH, arK
          Granite explodes deep beneath the deck - a heavy package pierces over 20 meters of bulkheads before detonation! Yes, 2-3 hits of such warheads and even such a large ship will be reliably disabled

          Not so simple. In 1977, the R-12 rocket hit the Bainbridge cruiser at an acute angle in the bow. A warhead weighing about a ton jerked inside the cruiser (with a displacement of only 8000 tons), one of the engines flew right through and made a hole in the side about 8 meters long below the waterline.
          From a fire that has arisen, the stock of SAM missiles has been detonated. This is about 2,5 tons of warheads, plus rocket fuel of 40 missiles.
          Nevertheless, the cruiser remained afloat and on the go. The fire was eliminated.

          chive-chive ???
          1. 0
            27 August 2019 10: 17
            In 1977, the R-12 missile hit the Bainbridge cruiser

            Quote: Tlauicol
            In chivo-chivo ???

            Read about the "Ocean 77" exercises and you will learn a lot of interesting things.
        2. 0
          27 August 2019 20: 30
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          In 1977, the R-12 missile hit the Bainbridge cruiser

          Sir Pushkin, you are misleading everyone about the "missile" R-12 - this is a BR! And Benbridge was hit by an X-12S - a winged anti-ship missile launched at a target position from a Tu-16K-12.
          Quote: Tlauicol
          chive-chive ???
          Carabiner over your shoulder !!
          Exercises "Ocean-77", Pacific Fleet:
          "At 13:55 local time, the Kh-12 missile hit the bow of the cruiser at an acute angle, in front of the Terrier SAM launcher. The warhead, which detonated with the set delay, caused enormous destruction, swelling the deck of the forecastle and breaking through both sides from the inside, forming a through hole above the waterline. One of the engines, continuing its path by inertia, broke through several watertight bulkheads and got stuck deep in the bowels of the cruiser. The second engine exited through the underwater part of the opposite side, forming a long underwater hole with jagged, outward-turned edges. The resulting fire in the ammunition magazines of the Terrier SAM bow mount caused additional destruction. The explosion and fire killed 27 crew members and 2 drowned, escaping from the flames overboard. The incident was classified by mutual agreement for 25 years. (http://vichivisam.ru/?p=5315)
          1. -1
            29 August 2019 09: 38
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            rocket X-12


            What kind of drunk nonsense?
            1. 0
              29 August 2019 17: 23
              Lucky boy! I did not drink with you and did not give reasons ... am
              And the link is not fate to go? Moreover, it is given.
              There is also a photo, if that ... all claims to the author. angry
              1. 0
                2 September 2019 21: 42
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                And the link is not fate to go?


                I followed the link naturally, but I didn’t understand, this is the site of alternative fashionable now, with a description of the parallel universe, or they really gave out all the nonsense for real events.

                No X-12 missile ever existed. No Tu-16-12 has ever existed either. There were no Ocean-77 exercises. 77 - apparently a reference to the once popular port "three pokers".
          2. 0
            29 August 2019 19: 42
            Quote: BoA KAA
            Quote: Captain Pushkin
            In 1977, the R-12 missile hit the Bainbridge cruiser

            Sir Pushkin, you are misleading everyone about the "missile" R-12 - this is a BR! And Benbridge was hit by an X-12S - a winged anti-ship missile launched at a target position from a Tu-16K-12.

            You are absolutely right, there must be an X-12C, a typo.
      2. 0
        26 August 2019 06: 57
        Well, the height of the aircraft carrier from the keel is 80-90 m! So 20 m is only the upper part of the hull, and above the water level.
    5. -2
      25 August 2019 21: 31
      This Pukin son McCain not only managed to set fire on the aircraft carrier, he also sold his Wahhabi-Saudis for $ 1 million dollars to the United States. A detective story, I recommend: https://eadaily.com/en/news/2017/07/04/kak-amerikanskiy-patriot-dzhon-makkeyn-million-dollarov-otrabatyval
    6. 0
      25 August 2019 22: 22
      Poseidon alone is enough.
    7. 0
      26 August 2019 12: 26
      As history has shown, McCain and Mackay are different people. laughing
    8. +2
      26 August 2019 13: 35
      Quote: Dalny V
      Weird question. Not at all. History has shown that one future Senator John McCain is enough for this.

      Yes, yes, yes, McCain burned the aircraft carrier, Galileo and Copernicus were burned at the stake, the oscilloscope has an arrow. smile
      McCain was the injured party in that fire: his Skyhawk stood next to the first of the planes on fire (after being hit by a rocket from the opposite Phantom) and fell into a puddle of burning fuel. After that, the future senator showed the wonders of acrobatics and managed to get out of the cockpit, balance on the nose cone and jump onto the deck until his Skyhawk turned into a brazier.

      The aircraft carrier was burned by gunsmiths who, in order to save time in preparation for departure, connected the cables to the NAR launcher before placing the aircraft on a catapult, turning on the engines and switching the aircraft to on-board power. As a result, a power surge when the onboard power was turned on led to the launch of the NAR - and that is precisely why the instruction required first to turn on the power, and then connect the cables, and do it on the catapult (where the launched NAR would go over a clean deck into the sea). In addition, gunsmiths scored on TB when handling fuses with safety checks - and often these checks were pulled out when arms were mounted, and not on a catapult (they wrote that the checks were so weak that with strong winds marker tapes attached to them pulled checks without any participation at all person).

      And most importantly, the day before the fire, gunsmiths accepted a load of "old-style" bombs, the filling of which could not withstand 10 minutes of heating in a fire (like the "new-design" bombs) - it detonated shortly after the bomb hit the flame. These bombs were hung on planes preparing to take off, and the rest were stored on the flight deck (after 15 years in the tropics, the explosives degraded, and gunsmiths were afraid to lower bombs into cellars). But BZZh AV and, in particular, the fire brigades, did not know about the old bombs - and after the start of the fire they extinguished it at the rate of "we have 10 minutes". The first bomb exploded less than two minutes after the start of the fire - and this explosion killed or wounded all the regular firemen of the AV. Then the fire was extinguished by non-specialists.

      By the way, it was precisely as a result of the fire on the Forrestal that the fire-fighting training of all AB crew members (and not only of the regular calculations) became mandatory.
    9. 0
      27 August 2019 05: 20
      History has shown that one future Senator John McCain is enough for this

      Emnip John McCain does not side by side for the Forrestal disaster. The pilot of the F-4B, ​​from whose wing Zuni descended, was called Lawrence Mackay.
  2. + 11
    25 August 2019 05: 30
    A bit of “sofa analytics”

    Why be shy. There is a lot of "sofa analytics". The whole article.
    The modesty of the author is also confirmed by the absence of a signature under the article.
    1. +4
      25 August 2019 06: 37
      It looks like Kaptsov. Very similar.
      1. +6
        25 August 2019 07: 58
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        It looks like Kaptsov. Very similar.

        Nah, and not close laughing
        1. +3
          25 August 2019 08: 19
          Rather, even anti-Kaptsov.
          1. 0
            25 August 2019 08: 34
            Why, he also constantly repeats that it is almost impossible to sink an aircraft carrier. request
            1. 0
              25 August 2019 08: 37
              I remember articles where he argued that all modern ships, including AB, are vulnerable, because without armor.
              1. 0
                25 August 2019 08: 40
                He has an article on non-sinking aircraft carriers
      2. 0
        25 August 2019 15: 30
        Too many mistakes for him.
      3. + 19
        25 August 2019 17: 34
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        It looks like Kaptsov. Very similar

        You should not slander a respected person, he never allows such blunders as in the opus! And by the syllable - "you can see the bird in flight!" - the dilettante wrote!
        Specific examples:
        1. Aviation fuel is stored not in "BUYAKH", but in "boules" - a kind of caissons along the side for the PTZ. It was in them that the Italians hid the explosives on their "Giuseppe Cesare", which was then blown up by frog men from the 10th squadron of the Italian Navy ... They knew in advance where to attach the explosive charge so that the entire bookmark would detonate and the Novorossiysk LK made an overkill. ..
        2. The irrigation system is located in the cellars of the BZ, and not on the flight deck. The nipples of the PAZ (anti-atomic protection) system are brought out by a half. In our country it is called USVZ - a universal water protection system.
        3. Where did the author get such nonsense as "At the same time, every sailor on an aircraft carrier is a professional firefighter" (?) Yes, the sailors are trained in basic fire safety measures, but fires are fought by a special team! of sailors trained specifically for this, and not by EW/RH specialists from BC-7!!!
        4. The author proposes (in case of failure of the aerofinishers) to catch the planes landing on the deck of the AVU with "net-barriers" ... But it's okay that there are only 6 of them on board !? Well, 6 F-18A / E will catch (suppose), and the rest?
        5. Of course, touched by the "powder magazine" in the 21st century! The cellars of the BZ apparently remained in the 18th century!
        6. The expression “below the WATERLINE” is essentially masterful! It remains to ask which one: constructive, operative, theoretical?
        7. There is no "assembly room" there, but there is a "room for final preparation (equipment) of ammunition", where the transport protection stage is removed from these same BPs and fuses are screwed in ...
        8. The author's level of awareness is evidenced by his complete confidence that "water" stops the chain reaction in the nuclear reactor core, and not the absorber rods lowered there!
        9. It is controversial assertion that 10 Granites "are guaranteed to disable the AVU." It depends on where they go and what the consequences of these hits will be ... And whether they, dear ones, will stick on one side ...
        10. About torpedo weapons. In order to deprive the AVU of the ability to straighten its landing, the torpedoes must hit from one side... Better, of course, are 650 mm, which, it seems, have returned to service and run perfectly well at 50 km at 60 knots. In addition, they have become smarter and more selective, while not losing the ability to target the NK's wake... But the author does not know about this!
        Just like a ship, it is necessary to straighten not only the trim, but also the roll, which for AVU is much more important for ensuring aircraft flights.
        11. The statement is incorrect:
        - "Only with the help of torpedoes can a giant be sent to the bottom" ... And the warheads of the Chinese DF-21D, our Kh-47M2, 3M22, and the old man 9M723, which vertically dive onto the flight deck, are also said to be "adapted to this!"
        - "only the destruction of the underwater part ... is the ONLY way of reprisals against an aircraft carrier" (?) The author has rightly forgotten that almost all the dead AVU of the Second World War ended their lives on the "auto-da-fe" ...
        12. Well, the statement that the 500 CT UB at 1,5 km from the AVU is no longer dangerous is quite a masterpiece! Apparently, the author never calculated the radius of destruction of the surface-to-ground battleships! And then, the author cites strange, not typical for the fleet in terms of power, SBP ...
        All this says that the author is not in the subject, but simply used the free translation of a foreign source about the AVU device and rumors about its combat use after WWII.
        Nevertheless, many thanks to him for the topic raised. Judging by the responses, many are not indifferent to it.
        Thanks again!
        1. +1
          25 August 2019 18: 21
          When a high-explosive-cumulative rocket charge was triggered, a destruction zone of 22 m² and a depth of 12 m was formed on board the target ship, with the cumulative jet pointing downward (at an angle to the axis of the rocket). This is about the X-22. Let's say Mosquito makes a hole in the target into which the boat freely passes. As one leader said in the 60s, not one armor holds against a rocket!
          1. 0
            25 August 2019 20: 05
            Quote: pmkemcity
            As one leader said in the 60, no armor holds against the rocket

            The Corn Chief was not too far off in his conclusions about the combat properties of the Iowa-class LK! Yes
            I previously wrote on the site how the entire BF was brought into BG when the LK approached the Baltic Straits. The thing is that except for the SBP, there is nothing to take it with its 450 mm armor! But it knows how to unload ammunition through its 9 barrels (the "Dobro" turret was removed, replaced by a missile launcher for Tomahawks), which it later demonstrated off the coast of Libya.
            1. +1
              26 August 2019 07: 33
              Iowa removed the tower GK?
              1. 0
                26 August 2019 18: 11
                Quote: Tlauicol
                Iowa removed the tower GK?

                I got a mistake: I hoped for a memory, did not check. They shot 3 towers of universal caliber.
            2. 0
              26 August 2019 08: 45
              Even at the school, the teacher talked about his difficult service on the cruiser 68 of the project (in my opinion "Pozharsky", I will not lie). He said that only they could keep up with the aircraft carrier, keep the speed for a long time at 30 knots. So they went side by side with the turrets of the main battery deployed to the American in the belly. Sometimes it was so close that the Yankees dumped a parachute from the barrels onto the deck. As they say "first hand". Maybe he embellished the guys, but in general, I think that it was.
            3. +1
              26 August 2019 14: 16
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              The fact is that apart from the SBP, there is nothing to take it with its 450 mm armor!

              Where is 450mm on the Iowa? belay
              Physics cannot be fooled - in order to make a high-speed aircraft capable of passing the Panama Canal, the Americans had to cut the load items as much as possible, including limiting the thickness of the Iowa's side armor to 307 mm.
              Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
              And here, to unload the ammunition through their 9 barrels (the Dobro turret was removed, replacing it with a rocket launcher for Tomahawks)

              The Iowa originally had 3 towers and 9 16 "barrels.
              The removal of the aft tower on these aircraft was considered as one of the options for modernization - in its place it was planned to make a runway and a hangar for Harriers helicopters. And these people still laughed at the IJN aircraft carriers "Ise" and "Hyuga". smile
              And for the installation of the Tomahawk launcher, Iowa donated four universal caliber turrets - 5 "/ 38.
              1. 0
                26 August 2019 18: 06
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Where is 450mm on the Iowa?

                GK towers and conning tower.
                Traditionally, the most powerful was the reservation of the main caliber artillery. The frontal plates of the “class B” armor with a thickness of 432 mm were installed at an angle 36 ° to the vertical and laid on a shirt made of 63-mm STS steel. According to calculations, such a reservation gave the equivalent of an 476-mm monolithic armor plate.

                The conning tower had an elliptical shape and was made of “Class B” armor. On the Iowa, it had three tiers, and on the remaining ships of the series it was divided into two tiers due to the abandonment of the flagship command post. Cutting walls had a thickness of 440 mm,

                Quote: Alexey RA
                And for the installation of the Tomahawk launcher, Iowa donated four universal caliber turrets - 5 "/ 38.

                Yes, I agree. That's how it was. Malekha forgot, pardon me! hi
        2. AAK
          +3
          25 August 2019 22: 17
          Colleague KAA, almost all the "bloopers" in this article have been removed "from the tongue"... In addition, based on linguistic features, the article really does have a translation inserted by 80-90%... Also, in addition to the bulges (between the bulkheads of the side structural protection), aviation fuel on aircraft carriers is stored in separate tanks in the area of ​​the hold deck, surrounded by cofferdams with inert filler (2 groups of tanks - bow and stern).
        3. +1
          26 August 2019 07: 40
          Are you serious about J. Cesare?
          1. 0
            26 August 2019 18: 18
            Quote: Tlauicol
            Are you serious about J. Cesare?

            More than. I had a chance to read classified materials of the investigation, which directly spoke about the sabotage carried out using divers-miners. And then there was an article in the Italian press with the recognition of 2 artists, both cap2 ranks of the Italian Navy in stock ... So, fairy tales about a package of mines in the anchorage are for lovers.
            1. 0
              26 August 2019 18: 23
              huh
              and where, in the place of the explosion, were boules Yes, and on docking he stood four times already under the Soviets, not counting other repairs and commissions
        4. +1
          26 August 2019 14: 07
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          1. Aviation fuel is stored not in "BUYAKH", but in "boules" - a kind of caissons along the side for the PTZ. It was in them that the Italians hid the explosives on their "Giuseppe Cesare", which was then blown up by frog people from the 10th squadron of the Italian Navy ...

          EMNIP, in the version of the blast it was believed that the main explosive charge was not in boules, but inside the case - in the compartment between the old and new nose designs, which was formed during the modernization of the aircraft.
          The battleship was built with a ram type nose. During modernization in 1933-1937, the Italians built their nose 10 meters, providing it with a dual-stream buoy to reduce hydrodynamic resistance and thereby increase the speed. At the junction of the old and new nose there was a certain damping volume in the form of a tightly welded tank

          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          3. Where did the author get such nonsense as "At the same time, every seaman on an aircraft carrier is a professional firefighter" (?) Yes, seamen are trained in the primary BZZ measures, but a special team fights fires! from specially trained sailors, and not RTR / EW specialists from BC-7 !!!

          This is not bullshit. Fighting fire on AB is really engaged in a regular fire brigade. But at the same time, each member of the AB crew undergoes fire training and must be able to replace a member of the fire brigade.
          This clause of instructions was written in the blood of the Forrestal crew, where the regular firefighters were killed or injured after the first bomb explosion. And then amateurs had to put out the fire - with corresponding results.
        5. 0
          26 August 2019 18: 09
          And how do you like this beauty from the author?

          it’s all a fairy tale to compare granite with an armor-piercing shell, a cruise missile is a fragile thing and has nothing to do with armor-piercing shells, so it will have nothing to pierce with its mass. On Granite is precisely the cumulative warhead, which detonates immediately after the contact of the rocket with the hull of the ship.
    2. + 19
      25 August 2019 09: 20
      Quote: Amateur
      There is a lot of "sofa analytics". The whole article.

      For starters, read what strategy was in 80xx against AUG
      My strength stood so that one part was in the Tunisian region, the other at the Gulf of Sallum. Each unit was aimed at its enemy carrier group. Each aircraft carrier was accompanied by our anti-ship missile submarines. Near the aircraft carrier there was always our tracking ship, which detected every take-off of an American carrier-based aircraft and transmitted this data to the boats. In addition to boats, each aircraft carrier was accompanied by our KUGs, (ship strike groups). If this is a cruiser with a missile range of three hundred and three hundred and fifty kilometers, then it goes at a distance of three hundred kilometers from the enemy’s AUG (aircraft carrier strike group).

      I tried to distribute the forces in such a way that no less than thirty of our missiles were aimed at each American aircraft carrier, with a readiness to launch missiles in two minutes. And every hour I gave out all means of the squadron updated target designation, the enemy was constantly on the gun. And we, of course, were also in the sight of the Americans. At the same time, twenty-five percent, that is, one in four of our missiles, were equipped with nuclear munitions. There are eight missiles on the boat, two of them with nuclear warheads. On the RRC (missile cruiser) "Slava" - sixteen missiles, four of them with nuclear warheads.

      The Soviet Union at one time assumed the obligation to not use nuclear weapons first. But it’s hard to say how this would be done during the war. For example, if in a battle I already fired my rockets with conventional ammunition, but they continue to attack me from all sides, and no one can help me? How can resistance be stopped without using up your main striking power?
      Our calculations showed that in those years their AUG was capable of guaranteed shooting down twenty-two missiles. For the twenty-third missile, the aircraft carrier catches onboard. Twenty-fourth could be shot down again, but then miss three in a row and so on. That is, when twenty-two missiles are exceeded in a simultaneous salvo, we already with a high degree of probability hit the main target - the aircraft carrier.
      Therefore, we believed that thirty missiles should always be ready for launch. But I honestly never believed that the Americans could really shoot down all the first twenty-two missiles. I am sure that this number would not exceed ten. Many times I watched the combat training of their anti-aircraft gunners. They always fired only at parachute targets. We didn’t even consider this for shooting, we never shot at parachute targets. This is just laughter, giveaway! We always fired on practical missiles. Those that are clearly flying at you, at real speeds, from different directions.

      FIFTH ESKADRA Tells the commander of the Mediterranean 5-th operational squadron, Admiral Valentin Selivanov
      1. The comment was deleted.
  3. -5
    25 August 2019 05: 33
    Aircraft carrier is truly a toughie, an aircraft carrier, of course, is not invulnerable. In order to cause significant damage to an aircraft carrier, you need to use a lot of forces, for only multiple hits capable of incapacitating it, while the aircraft carrier itself will not give up so easily.
    And where is his Achilles heel, Kashchey's needle? There are many different holes, it's boring and not interesting, or maybe you just don't know "where and how" to hit, so that with one blow?
    1. -2
      25 August 2019 13: 27
      This is of course wonderful! Here the boy was telling so excitingly how well protected the catapults are. But here's the problem. A hit not even on the catapult itself, but next to it - skewed, and it is not combat-ready. 3-4 missiles on the deck nearby and it is no longer an aircraft carrier for a very long time. The air wing cannot take off, and most of those that have already taken off will not land. As a result, fly to the range of the air defense and fire missiles until you get tired of it. The escort ships cannot leave the AUG - who will fight possible boats? Our boats have already surfaced in the middle of the order, and one even ripped the bottom of the aircraft carrier. So they will not abandon it. And restoring the flight deck is not an hour or two. And without an air wing in the air, the AUG is a child's target. The AUG is good for instilling fear in the blacks in Africa. There are no coastal complexes there, no serious aviation.
  4. 0
    25 August 2019 05: 34
    The author did not name yet another method of struggle. Ballistic missiles of medium and shorter range. With a maneuvering head. The Chinese are experimenting with them intensively. They don’t even need a yabu. to create such a system.
    1. +4
      25 August 2019 08: 00
      While this is more advertising, there is no evidence that such Chinese missiles at least once hit the target ship.
      1. -2
        25 August 2019 08: 19
        Brdsd pioneer take a look.
        1. -1
          25 August 2019 09: 47
          Interested in. Our written off. The Chinese have never hit.
      2. +2
        25 August 2019 20: 10
        And they won’t fall.

        Recently Americans The book was published based on Chinese sources, "Red Star Over the Pacific Ocean", authored by James Holmes and Toshi Yoshihara, where, based on the Chinese, it is stated that these missiles are decoys, the purpose of which is to force the Americans to use up their SAMs before the real attack.

        And this is logical, the anti-ship ballistic missile looks for modern technology either a senseless knocked-down garbage, or sticky.
  5. -10
    25 August 2019 05: 36
    Of course, I'm not an expert, but here's how the sofa experts will assess the defeat of the AUG by a promising type of weapon: BPA "Status - 6" (Paseidon)?
    It would be interesting to listen.
    1. +7
      25 August 2019 08: 16
      No chance, Paseidon is a doomsday weapon, not an AUG hunter.
      1. -9
        25 August 2019 10: 00
        Quote: BlackMokona
        Paseidon is a doomsday weapon, not an AUG hunter.

        AUG is a compact target .. therefore Poseidon with .. let's say a 50-100ct charge .. just for him.
        1. +7
          25 August 2019 11: 34
          AUG is not a compact target, it occupies 500 square kilometers. They point blank only for show offs to take a picture. And usually far from each other. Secondly, how will you induce Paseidon?
          1. -8
            25 August 2019 12: 11
            Quote: BlackMokona
            Secondly, how will you induce Paseidon?

            Tell me everything.. That is, the simple idea that reducing the warhead frees up space and it can be used for guidance means.. doesn't occur to you? And who said that there will be only one such device on the AUG?
            1. +5
              25 August 2019 12: 42
              Well, what guidance tools do you see?
              The radar will not penetrate the water column, the sonar will not work well, etc.
              1. -5
                25 August 2019 12: 45
                Quote: BlackMokona
                Well, what guidance tools do you see?

                But how is it directed ... noticeably smaller in size ... a torpedo of 553 mm at a distance of 100 km from the carrier? Its miracle ... apparently ..
                1. +6
                  25 August 2019 12: 47
                  By wire wink I am not kidding
                  1. -3
                    25 August 2019 12: 53
                    Quote: BlackMokona
                    I don't joke about wires

                    "Case" was very surprised ...
                    1. +2
                      25 August 2019 12: 56
                      Pro Case
                      To transmit commands to the on-board systems of the torpedo, a cable placed on two coils is used. One of them is equipped with 25 km of wire and is located inside the torpedo, and towed from 5 km of cable in the transport position is placed near the jet
                      1. 0
                        25 August 2019 13: 00
                        Quote: BlackMokona
                        Pro Case
                        Well, why is the quote not complete? What kind of manipulation? Range UGST 50km ... how poor it is another 25km without cable then ... ahhh ... I’m bursting into tears ... a mean male tear flows on the cheek ...
                        It is known that the Fizik-2 product has homing tools, however, the type of such a system was not specified. At the same time, there is certain information about the control systems of the previous UGST torpedo. According to reports, in the framework of the R&D “Physicist”, enterprises of the domestic defense industry created two versions of active-passive homing systems that have certain differences. Together with homing, remote control can be used from the corresponding remote control of the carrier submarine. To transmit commands to the on-board systems of the torpedo, a cable placed on two coils is used. One of them is equipped with 25 km of wire and is located inside the torpedo, and towed from 5 km of cable in the transport position is placed near the jet propulsion. The third coil can be mounted on board the carrier.
                      2. +1
                        25 August 2019 13: 26
                        Now lay out your homing range laughing
                      3. 0
                        25 August 2019 13: 29
                        Quote: BlackMokona
                        Now lay out your homing range

                        2 km for a passive system on the wake of the track .. it's very good. And in this size .. so even more than ..
                      4. +1
                        25 August 2019 13: 33
                        Yeah, and now a thunderbird for thousands of kilometers put wink
                        Pointing there is purely point blank to correct, and in the aug should wire and carrier to bring. And it won’t work out with a petrel
                  2. +2
                    25 August 2019 13: 42
                    What's there to joke about? By wire, of course! But after splashdown, aircraft torpedoes and rocket-torpedoes first operate exclusively in the noise direction finding mode. And only at the final guidance stage, when the target is selected and identified, the echolocation is switched on. So, the same Poseidon will enter the target area under directive, then noise direction finding and at the final stage, additional reconnaissance of the target in the echo mode and detonation.
                    There the boy said that the explosion of 500 kilotons in the air is just a trifle. But how will the AUG work without antennas? I'm not even talking about the equipment that came out because of the EMI, and the devil knows what kind of electromagnetic environment for the next few hours
                    1. 0
                      26 August 2019 07: 08
                      Only here are aviation torpedoes and torpedo missiles, at first they fly and only the most terminal section floats.
                      The Petrel doesn’t succeed.
                      Military electronics are protected from EMI, as well as from distant nuclear explosions. The antenna breeze does not break
                      Well, in order to close the entire ocean with the Directive Petrels, you don’t have enough budget. And the AUG with the help of nuclear submarines and anti-submarine aviation will simply mine the waters for its movement. Starting from a safe area
    2. +1
      25 August 2019 09: 55
      It seems, as stated, this wunderwafer was created to destroy targets located on the coast: naval base, cities ..
      1. +5
        25 August 2019 12: 57
        SW the minuser can tell how we’ll be a dick, with nuclear warheads, intercontinental range (according to the developers,) without c / y, drown an aircraft carrier))
        And let's not forget about the "vegetable garden" with carriers))
        In the studio!)))
        Py, sy. This Poseidon, like Caliber, is ready to tape with electrical tape, to everything, and everywhere)))
        1. -5
          25 August 2019 13: 22
          Quote: The Siberian Barber
          In the studio!)))

          Ie .. "Container" and "Sunflower" are not familiar to you? And also you have not heard anything about the plans of the Russian Federation to make 1500-2000 km from the borders a continuous radio detection field?
          1. 0
            25 August 2019 14: 24
            Quote: dvina71
            Quote: The Siberian Barber
            In the studio!)))

            Ie .. "Container" and "Sunflower" are not familiar to you? And also you have not heard anything about the plans of the Russian Federation to make 1500-2000 km from the borders a continuous radio detection field?

            I have not heard) thanks, I will know)
            But I heard about plans to create a unified system for monitoring the underwater situation, which remained plans, alas.
            So, I did not get a clear answer from you regarding the use of Poseidon)
          2. +4
            25 August 2019 20: 15
            And you are aware of the form in which it provides data ZGRLS? And can she determine EDC? without which no weapons can be used? Or classify different targets with close EPR? To distinguish a corner reflector on a boat from a ship moving at the same speed?

            Enough already to tell tales about sunflowers in a container.
    3. +1
      25 August 2019 20: 11
      No way. This is unrealistic from the word "absolutely". Even if this sawmill completes to the end and the torpedo is actually made.
  6. + 10
    25 August 2019 05: 40
    And why the heck to drown him? !!! Disable enough. But for this a lot is not necessary. The author mentioned Forrestal. It’s not entirely clear where he got the number of bombs from ... Forrestal is said about 9 bombs everywhere, and the caliber is 500 pounds, that’s 227 kg, by the way, and not 225. But on Enterprise there were already 18 explosions in just 20 minutes, and 500 bombs again ...
    So, that is typical, on the Enterprise the deck was armored, and so that it was supposed to withstand the explosion of exactly 500 pounds, and when they hit, i.e. they also fall from a height, they can penetrate. The deck was in the hole, and the fire spread to the hangar, hello to the author, who removed the planes from the deck in 5 minutes and says that now there will be no fire.
    And the aircraft carrier practically failed ... From a fire on the deck ... That actually is not some kind of super catastrophe for the AB, a fire on the armored deck. But if you fucking inside AF, in hangars, in the fuel lift ...
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 13: 37
      Well, I must add that one after this underwent emergency repairs for 12 days (where is our watch) and then got up for another repair. And the second is 6 weeks.

      In this case, the fire extinguishing itself for several hours, then in one, in the second case. And this is just a quenching.
      Plus significant losses in emergency shipments.

      By the way, the author writes so simply about "cutting" with an oxyacetylene torch. Meanwhile, the speed of cutting a deck with an oxyacetylene torch is not a very fast process - centimeters per hour. Plus the creation of a temporary flooring. So it turns out that the AB is out of order for at least a day.
    2. +1
      27 August 2019 17: 36
      Quote: Uhu
      About Forrestal, 9 bombs are everywhere mentioned, and the caliber there is 500 pounds, which is 227 kg, by the way, and not 225.

      On the Forrestal, it was precisely the 1000-pounders that exploded - seven or eight of them. In addition, one 750-pounder and one 500-pounder exploded.
      It is noteworthy that all the bombs that exploded, except for one (500-pound), were old-fashioned. Bombs of a new type managed not to explode even in the center of the fire: when the fire on the flight deck was extinguished, then two smoking but whole bombs were found in the center of the deck - gunsmiths quickly turned fuses out of them and dropped the bombs overboard.
  7. + 12
    25 August 2019 06: 25
    "This can be repeated only if an attack on an aircraft carrier is unexpected, only if the team does not have time to prepare for an attack, which, you must agree, is unlikely in reality, the US Navy has many means of monitoring the space around its AUG and it is unlikely that it will be possible to attack the aircraft carrier unnoticed. ", at the end of the 50s of the last century, the division of torpedo boats Bolshevik of the Kamchatka flotilla did this after passing through the AUG system, the Americans did not even know how to react. It is difficult to say whether the calculation or the matter of the incident of this meeting, earlier in the morning with fog in the Pacific Ocean, the wooden construction of the boats did not allow the Americans to detect them with radar.
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 08: 09
      Recalled a famous film about fishermen.
      . Yes, I can sink an aircraft carrier!! Well, if I'm lucky of course...©
    2. +2
      25 August 2019 08: 17
      You confuse the situation of peacetime and war. Imagine the United States noticed these torpedo boats for 500 km, so what next? Do they send planes and bomb these boats?
      1. -2
        25 August 2019 12: 26
        They will not notice, they will not reach. 500 Kame in Kamchatka, this is the mainland. laughing
      2. -2
        25 August 2019 17: 55
        Do not forget about disguising warships as vehicles. And about the demonstration of the capabilities of calibers. And if you stick the apple in the standard 40 foot container, all this will be. This is nicer than any destroyer.
        The arctic fox will play in the AUG imperceptibly,
        1. +2
          26 August 2019 07: 26
          Again, wartime, any non-friendly ship 500 km from the AUG will get a kick in the ass. Any non-execution of orders and a civilian ship will be sunk.
          In Iraq, during the battles for Basra, there were also such clever people. They hid submachine gunners behind gates in houses so that incoming American soldiers would receive a queue. The USA quickly got their bearings and began to level the houses. And the Iraqi "genius" gave birth to the idea of ​​hiding tanks in schools. What do you think was the reaction of the US military?
          The rules of war, which require a clear distinction between military and civilian targets, were meant to save the civilian population. Because if you disguise your soldiers as civilians, the enemy will be able to simply kill your civilians en masse. If you try a fake surrender a couple of times, the enemy will shoot the surrendering soldiers with full right to do so. If you think to hide military ships among civilians, you will get a missile in each civilian steamer. If you make fake refugees a couple of times, you will get mass destruction of refugee columns, etc.
          1. +1
            26 August 2019 11: 49
            Bravo!
            This is the very essence of war. And also - preemptive provocations, untying hands for carrying out carpet bombing and total sweeps of the area. An attempt to hide behind civilians will lead to huge losses of civilians.
  8. +2
    25 August 2019 06: 27
    Many thanks to the author for the excellent, thoughtful and well-written article.
    1. -2
      25 August 2019 08: 53
      Many thanks to the author for the excellent, thoughtful and well-written article.

      I join ... smile only why is the author disguised as Stirlitz.

      A little bit of my own armchair analysis... I think the most important thing for delivering a strike is to determine in time the location and time of the AUG's presence at the point of strike.
      A strike on an AUG can be either combined, either single or sequentially stretched out over time from different locations and weapon carriers.
      In addition, various tricks, mine measures, electronic warfare, etc. can be used to disinform the enemy... military operations are always full of surprises and unexpected events, and I would not so categorically declare the invulnerability of the AUG.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 16: 37
        About thoughtfulness - that's cool. The author's fuel is stored in the buoys of the author, and not in the bulyahs, and when he gets on board the counter-flooding is corrected not by the ROLL, but by the DIFFERENT. And let the author show a modern ship with boules. And jet fuel on aircraft carriers store double bottom tanks. Now for the torpedoes. All torpedoes are non-contact for a long time and are detonated under the bottom, piercing both the double and triple bottom, and most importantly, breaking the hull ties providing longitudinal strength (see video, where the undermining of this torpedo breaks the EM body).
    2. +3
      25 August 2019 18: 23
      Quote: ichudov
      Many thanks to the author for the excellent, thoughtful and well-written article.

      Well, what can I say?
      -- Birds of a feather flock together! fellow
      P.S. Just please, no more THIS article...Otherwise, I will lose faith in human reason! I will leave the site and switch to reading "Murzilka" laughing
  9. +3
    25 August 2019 06: 28
    The empirical point of view has a right to exist. Here is a fantastic intro to the article, yes, it’s strong, it warms the soul.
  10. + 10
    25 August 2019 06: 44
    The article only talks about the aircraft carrier, but at the same time they forget about the rest of the AUG, which is its escort. Therefore, there is no sense in drowning an aircraft carrier; it is more correct to disable it and force it to be returned to the port for repair. With the modern development of air defense, an aircraft carrier wing only for banana republics poses a serious threat, but when it acts as a coordination center for surface and ground troops, it can do much more harm. Therefore, the main thing is to deprive him of this opportunity and deprive him of the move, causing the maximum possible damage, then they will try to tow him to the repair port, he will be guarded by other escort ships, that is, a dozen ships are being destroyed at once, and towing and repair will take more than one month! And if you sink it, then due to the ships of the aircraft carrier’s warrant other AUGs will be strengthened or the ships will be used in other operations, which is not good. And the author so easily dismisses nuclear charges, while for some reason only Granites are taken into account, and more modern means are not taken into account, Caliber, Paisedon, etc.
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 09: 00
      The caliber for Russia may be modern. While the US used the Tomahawk cruise missile in the wars with Cancer and Yugoslavia a long time ago. And hundreds of them.
      1. 0
        27 August 2019 09: 05
        What nonsense? You take the TYPE of the weapon, and on the basis that someone has used this type of weapon "for a very long time", you claim that the newest Russian missiles are an analogue of Tomahawks of thirty or twenty years ago!

        And the first tanks and aircraft appeared on the battlefields of the First World War. We quickly throw out all the "junk": T-14, T-90, T-72B3, Su-57, Su-35, Su-30SM! And the first breech-loading guns appeared, in general it is scary to say when, already in the XIV century, to urgently throw out all the "ancient" artillery!

        Before you write nonsense, think about it sometimes. They say that thinking in general is useful.
    2. +2
      25 August 2019 09: 27
      Poseidon is yes .. but about Poseidon you might think ..
  11. Egg
    + 21
    25 August 2019 07: 11
    The Titanic, at one time, was also painted as invulnerable and not sunk, but went to sea only once and 1 meeting with an iceberg was enough for him.
    All this is a theory, as it will be in real combat, no one knows, only assumptions.
    1. +6
      25 August 2019 08: 23
      How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier?

      Sometimes, one match is enough, one outstanding butt. smile
      1. +3
        25 August 2019 12: 17
        or one mccain laughing
    2. 0
      25 August 2019 18: 30
      Quote: Telur
      as will be in real combat, no one knows, only assumptions.

      You can read Tom Clancy's Red Tide. The book was written according to our military documents. A computer game was created based on it, which is regularly played in Anapolis.
      So, if you wish, you can imagine.
    3. 0
      26 August 2019 11: 51
      It's time to experiment in the Persian Gulf!
  12. +6
    25 August 2019 07: 12
    So are Americans really investing billions of dollars in ships that fall apart from any sneeze?
    Are there many countries capable of sneezing on aircraft carriers? Here it is! While the Union was alive, their aircraft carriers did not appear in those places. where the Union could even have such a "cold" accidentally And now what are they afraid of? Kiselev's gears? I don’t think so!
    1. +4
      25 August 2019 07: 45
      Are there many countries capable of sneezing on aircraft carriers? Here it is! While the Union was alive, their aircraft carriers did not appear in those places. where the Union could even accidentally have such a "cold"


      It was the aircraft carriers that were created with the goal of bringing democracy to non-nuclear and oil-bearing countries, and the major players in Russia and China have enough opportunities to sink this vessel. The author should think about vulnerabilities and they are there and one missile or torpedo is enough.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. 0
          26 August 2019 02: 20
          What good western weapons are these? and most importantly how is it good?
    2. Alf
      +2
      25 August 2019 15: 12
      Quote: Gardamir
      Now what are they afraid of? Kiselev's gears?

      Expressions of concern.
  13. 0
    25 August 2019 07: 44
    purely theoretically, there remains the possibility of hitting one reactor rocket
  14. +8
    25 August 2019 07: 50
    Still, these are different things - to blow up 500 kg of TNT on the deck, or to get to the deck with supersonic sound, in addition to the 500 kg of cumulative warhead, the rocket itself weighing a couple of tons .. Yes, and with the rest of the fuel ..
  15. +6
    25 August 2019 07: 57
    If an aircraft carrier is not so vulnerable, then how not vulnerable should an armored battleship be orders of magnitude larger.
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 10: 52
      Battleships were fired with torpedoes and heavy bombs. It was almost impossible to sink a large battleship by other means.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 13: 50
        Well, yes! HOOD SAM UTOP, From the first volley
        1. +3
          25 August 2019 13: 56
          Alas, there are no 16 inch guns in service now. And so yes, a shell weighing one ton in effect will be no worse than a bomb.
  16. +4
    25 August 2019 08: 05
    A good article with an interesting analysis of the real vulnerability of an aircraft carrier, it is surprising that the author is not specified.
    Note - there is a typo.
    That's right in anti-torpedo boules.
    Threat as the discussion showed, an aircraft carrier does not have protection from the main striking ammunition - anti-cap smile
  17. + 15
    25 August 2019 08: 08
    jet fuel is generally stored in buoys,
    The word "buoy" is repeated twice lol If it were just once, it would be considered a mistake, but... Author, fuel is stored in all accessible volumes below the waterline - a double bottom, in the same PTZ. If you meant the BULI, then they served as additional protection outside the hull, and the ships in question did not carry such wink And BUIs are things of a completely different purpose, structure, size Yes
    Here is a typical example of booleans

    and buoys

    wink hi
    1. +6
      25 August 2019 09: 43
      Most likely the spelling check does not know about boules :)
  18. + 10
    25 August 2019 08: 10
    And if a large anti-ship missile falls into the superstructure of the ship and destroys the control of the aircraft carrier and kills the officers there?
    1. +5
      25 August 2019 10: 54
      Throughout the article, I had the same question. If you look at the tests of our anti-ship missiles, they first of all fall into an impromptu superstructure on the barge. That is, cutting will most likely be one of the first. And such a rocket as granite will blow it to hell with the first hit. I don’t know what the aircraft carrier will do next, but I suppose that it will immediately turn around and sail to the base.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 17: 35
        Quote from Grohuf
        If you look at the tests of our RCC

        The settings for where and how to hit are entered into the rocket itself (in addition to information where to find the target), and the "barges" are stupidly cheaper as layouts.
        1. 0
          25 August 2019 20: 32
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          Settings where and how to get introduced into the rocket itself

          Bullshit. A missile with a seeker head is simply aimed at the middle of the target. If there are 20 missiles with a seeker head, they will all hit the same place. They will go right through. laughing
          1. 0
            25 August 2019 20: 53
            Quote: Saxahorse
            There will be 20 missiles with GOS, all of them in the same place. Dive through and through.

            In fact, they distribute the target area among themselves, some generally go not only from the side but also from above.
            1. 0
              26 August 2019 00: 30
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              In fact, they distribute the target area among themselves,

              At the level of target distribution in the order it may well be. But to choose the place of impact, the missiles simply do not have the capabilities. Neither "artificial intelligence" for analysis, nor the resolution of radars to distinguish, for example, the setting from the hull.
              1. 0
                26 August 2019 01: 27
                Quote: Saxahorse
                At the level of distribution of goals in the order it may well be. But in order to choose a place of impact, missiles have no corny possibilities.

                Everything is much simpler, there is a 3D target area, and missiles are distributed across this area, this both provides protection from the APS and increases the damage inflicted.
                1. 0
                  26 August 2019 23: 51
                  Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                  Everything is much simpler, there is a 3D target area

                  Where did 3D come from all of a sudden? What are you going to scan the AUG with? laughing

                  A commonplace flat spot in the middle of which a rocket is induced.
                  1. +1
                    27 August 2019 00: 04
                    : Rukalitsa: Okay, I chew it specially for you and present it on a silver platter.
                    1) the leading missile sees the target pointing to the center of the target
                    2) the lead rocket passes the corrections to the followers of the first level for their entry under different trajectories (from the sides, from above, etc.)
                    3) first-level led missiles transmit corrections to second-level followers for offsets in order to uniformly hit the target area from their path.
                    In fact, everything is more complicated because there can be many leading ones and they can change, be replaced and be separated.
                    1. +1
                      27 August 2019 00: 17
                      Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                      : Rukalitsa: Okay, I chew it specially for you and present it on a silver platter.
                      1) the leading missile sees the target pointing to the center of the target
                      2) the lead rocket passes the corrections to the followers of the first level for their entry under different trajectories (from the sides, from above, etc.)
                      3) first-level led missiles transmit corrections to second-level followers for offsets in order to uniformly hit the target area from their path.
                      In fact, everything is more complicated because there can be many leading ones and they can change, be replaced and be separated.

                      And when and at what exercises / trials did all these miracles work out?
      2. +2
        25 August 2019 18: 41
        Quote from Grohuf
        That is, cutting will most likely be one of the first. And such a rocket as granite will blow it to hell with the first hit.

        At the same time, the AVU will lose only the RUNNING POST and monitoring equipment for HE.
        Control in combat is carried out from the GKP - the ship / from the TsKP - the formation. It is unpleasant, of course, but not fatal for the AVU...
      3. 0
        26 August 2019 19: 12
        Quote from Grohuf
        to an improvised superstructure on a barge.


        Most likely it is a corner reflector.
    2. +1
      25 August 2019 16: 59
      Quote: Al Asad
      will disable the control of the aircraft carrier and kill the officers there?

      The command will be taken by the foreman-ship cook, or a lieutenant from the marines, "passengers", and voila: the wing is on the wing, everything flies, sits down, shoots-bomb-wins-the enemy-runs ... Yes I don’t know, but they show so ... Do you believe? request wassat
      1. -1
        26 August 2019 11: 57
        While at least one officer is alive - the regiment is alive, while at least one sergeant is alive - the company is alive. The Americans teach their military that on the spot here, if he is the senior in rank, he makes all decisions independently and his power is equal to the power of the US president in this place.
  19. 3vs
    +5
    25 August 2019 08: 16
    And if the torpedo is screwed onto the screws and with granite to demolish the superstructure, then what?
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 13: 55
      Enough only for the propellers and rudders - and there is no AUG. Neither take off normally nor sit down. Somehow you can, but about 30 miles minus the take-off and so much plus the landing. And wake guidance we already oh how long
    2. +2
      25 August 2019 18: 44
      Quote: 3vs
      And if a torpedo mount on the screws

      One torpedo on 4 th screws at once?
      Well, one will definitely have a kayak, and it’s also near (in the train), but I’m not sure about the remaining 2's ... It will be half as much, but there will be decent 15 nodes for it that will be undermined!
      1. 3vs
        +1
        26 August 2019 06: 57
        It is not a fact that damage to some screws will be painless for others.
        We must try, simulate ... Yes
        1. +1
          26 August 2019 18: 34
          Quote: 3vs
          It is not a fact that damage to some screws will be painless for others.

          Probably you are right: a hydrodynamic shock on the hull, set structure, foundations ... Surely there will be "shifts", and possibly even breakdowns from the foundations ... Support-and-thrust, shaft line, hydraulic systems ... all this will feel a shock ... But, I believe, with beats and other vibration, the LP will still rotate. The stroke will decrease, but it will not be completely lost ... Surely there is some kind of damping system, damping such cases. The main thing is that the gearbox does not sit down ... Then for sure - a scribe!
  20. + 13
    25 August 2019 08: 18
    But how strong is the flight deck itself? In the case of a fire on the Forrestal, its flight deck exploded: 16 aerial bombs with a caliber of 453 kg, 4 aerial bombs with a caliber of 340 kg, 8 aerial bombs with a caliber of 225 kg.

    The author wants a hype - well, let’s give him such an opportunity)))
    So, the usual high-explosive bombs exploded, designed to attack on the ground, and which did not even touch the deck.
    But even in the Second World War, the Germans attacked our battleships of the Sevastopol class with special bombs, which worked well. I do not think that the aircraft carrier will be attacked with anti-personnel missiles.
    The author brought a wonderful photo

    which shows that the most critical zones for an aircraft carrier are the red and green zones. The green arresting gear zone - any crater in these two zones will not allow aircraft to land, not at all, unless they are vertical takeoff aircraft.
    And also, two red zones of catapults, on a funnel for each this zone, and not a single plane from Avik will take off anymore.
    The author writes that the take-off deck can be repaired. Of course it is possible, in the conditions of the dock, or when the enemy does not interfere, but when there is a battle and avik under attack, it is unlikely that the repair will be effective.
    The author writes about powerful anti-torpedo protection, maybe this is so. But what are the screws and rudders covered with? Any torpedo hit in this area will cause serious damage to the aircraft carrier. Of course, we can say that the probability of a torpedo hitting the propellers is small, but let's not forget that now all weapons are being made "smart", including torpedoes.
    This is just so, offhand ....
    1. +6
      25 August 2019 10: 21
      About torpedoes need to be added. Getting torpedoes into the screws is quite simple, because there is also guidance on the wake and noise. But it’s impossible to protect them (I’ll somehow faintly imagine it), because in any case, either the screws will be damaged or damage to the protection will interfere with normal operation.

      Then we will not forget that if you still blow up the torpedo UNDER the bottom, then good will also be not enough.

      On the deck. If you think about it, then any hits across the entire width of the deck in the area of ​​the Superstructure will be a serious nuisance for AB. After all, they may be struck here: The superstructure - control of the entire ship and air wing plus all surveillance systems), one of the finishers (and this immediately puts an end to the landing of airplanes), two catapults. Those. any hit in this area disables the AB or seriously reduces its combat readiness.
      1. -1
        26 August 2019 12: 00
        In fact, homing torpedoes are easily taken away by traps from the target, and all torpedoes are destroyed by MLRSs upon timely detection.
        1. 0
          26 August 2019 19: 37
          Everything is fine, only aircraft carriers like Nimitz have no anti-torpedo protection. from the word at all.
          More precisely, they tried to develop it, but could not. And with 3 aircraft carriers on which it was delivered it is removed.
          Therefore, the PLO rests entirely on the shoulders of Escort and helicopters.
          But if the torpedo was captured by AB, then it will already be difficult to mislead by traps. Only the escort remains. But alas, there everything is not rosy with the destruction of torpedoes already launched.

          Plus, do not forget that from the aft sector the capabilities of ships are always very limited (well, the screws there are noisy)

          PS
          Here is the news. https://vpk.name/news/273428_vms_ssha_otkazalis_ot_razrabotki_protivotorped_dlya_avianoscev.html
    2. -1
      25 August 2019 13: 18
      A flat deck can be repaired at any time and in any conditions .. Judging by the photos on the Forrestal, there are no problems at all. I wouldn't be surprised if I find out that the Americans have the equipment and equipment for this. All civilized countries are distinguished by a thorough approach to such trifles. They won't wave a pick there.
      1. 0
        27 August 2019 15: 31
        Oh!

        Is it possible that a "light-faced" person with "correct genes" and a "good face" came to us?

        Strongly aware of how it is with them in "civilized" countries?

        And what kind of beast is this - do not explain the civilized country?
        1. 0
          2 September 2019 15: 32
          Eh. soared in the bathhouse. Did not answer.
          Nicely. Thank. I’m actually a light carp. Genes are probably nothing too.
          Here is what was meant. Whether we like it or not, the United States is still a civilized country. Maybe unfortunately. The rest, by the way, is not better.

          On such large ships there is always such a pretty good workshop with metalworking equipment. And there are a lot of hand tools. Let's not forget that few people in the USA work with a shovel. And on aviks a lot of all kinds of equipment. Their firefighting and airplane transport vehicles speak for themselves. "KAMAZ", it is, of course, cooler, but there is no dirt on the deck. There is nothing to knead.
          So there is something to repair the deck with. And very fast. Not great work. Surely prepared drawings for all occasions on the hole of any configuration. Or maybe even such typical ones are somewhere. Enough welders there. Not great science.
          This is one thing.
          The second is somewhat abstract. Despite the fact that Marxism is alive mainly thanks to our country, here it is not respected at all. And it says that the production of the means of production played a crucial role in the industrial revolution. And man has become man, thanks to the production of means of production. And the development of countries, etc., is first and foremost the production of the means of production — technological equipment and technological equipment. Take a look at any bourgeois tool catalog. There is nothing there. And all this is necessary. And there is a lot of that which is not clear to us without explanation. And all this from there. From the West. Including the USA. And we like it or not, but it is. So I suspect that on an aircraft carrier of any instrument, well, they just collapsed. The Americans do not like to wave with a Kyle, a sledgehammer, etc. Everything has its own machine or other tool.
          And that's all, unfortunately, unlike us.
          The ability to overcome difficulties is good, and the ability not to create them is even better.
          1. 0
            6 September 2019 15: 30
            Well, a country in which technologies are used in which people don’t eat each other, do not regularly and daily kill and rape each other right on the street - a civilized country. Almost all states located on planet Earth are suitable for this description, without a small exception.

            But you clearly pronounce this phrase with an aspiration, besides, with a clearly semantic intonation, you single out a number of "civilized countries" (pronounced with reverential aspiration and raising your eyes to grief) from the rest of the planet. So I asked you a clarifying question, what in these countries makes you talk about them with reverent breath? Yes, and "West" with a capital letter and no less aspiration speaks volumes.

            How the aircraft carrier is being repaired (for a second, try turning a plate of steel with a thickness of 15 mm, cut out the crumpled part of such a coating, 15 (!), Karl, millimeters of steel (!), Ask how fast autogen cuts such steel, and at the same time grab it in half an hour in place of another piece cut out, from the same 15mm steel), this is a question for kilometers of comments.

            I then asked you a specific question, about this is your "civilized country"! And there is no answer to it.
            1. +1
              6 September 2019 16: 14
              No aspiration. Facts and rules of the Russian language. You can go to my profile and read the comments. Here I only call Ukraine with a small letter. And whether you consider the USA a civilized country or not is your personal business. The USA is a civilized country. The same as Rome, Byzantium or Great Britain were in their time. At different times, this is a different state. In terms of industry, it is very developed. And aircraft carriers are a fact. Today, no one can build such. But don't talk about printed dollars! No dollars can buy a country's ability to build such ships. And organize their maintenance and upkeep in the navy.
              Again. Any pribluda on aviks for repair - a wagon with a trolley. No sailors will heroically drag a 15 mm sheet on their hands. And the crew there is not one thousand. Don't think of Americans as idiots. At sea, they fought at the very least. And they know how to repair it. A hole like that on Forrestal is not a problem to patch up if you have to complete a task. The bigger problem will be the pieces of repair that need to be removed for flights.
              And to cut such steel with oxygen or acetylene - we must also guess. Plasma cutters have long been invented. For a ship with a nuclear power plant, that's it.
              Vopschem, I will not give in to fantasies. But I don’t advise you to consider them anything as capable idiots either. Their entire history of the last 100+ years shows this.
              Once upon a time, the Japanese believed that Americans were effeminate and capable of nothing. It’s worth hitting them harder - they will surrender themselves. It ended up being known as.
              One must be able to respect others. No matter how personally you treat them.
    3. +2
      26 August 2019 14: 36
      Quote: lucul
      The author writes that the take-off deck can be repaired. Of course it is possible, in the conditions of the dock, or when the enemy does not interfere, but when there is a battle and avik under attack, it is unlikely that the repair will be effective.

      The fact of the matter is that since the time of WWII temporary repair of the flight deck on the AV is carried out by the team. Either the team manages to cut off the curved edges of the hole in time, put a patch on it and start releasing the air group, or the aircraft carrier drowns the second wave of enemy aircraft.
    4. 0
      26 August 2019 19: 45
      Quote: lucul
      aerofinisher


      Aerofisher is just an iron cable. He leaves in two holes in the deck, and somewhere inside the flywheels and springs are already made.

      To fix the aerofiner, if only the cable is broken, the operation is not difficult. "Kuznetsov" seems to have been put into operation on the same day after the plane crash with a broken cable.
      1. -1
        26 August 2019 19: 53
        To fix the aerofiner, if only the cable is broken, the operation is not difficult. "Kuznetsov" seems to have been put into operation on the same day after the plane crash with a broken cable.

        Yes, do not care for the aerofinisher.
        These are the holes

        in the area of ​​the aerofinisher will not allow the plane to land - that’s the main thing ....
        1. 0
          26 August 2019 22: 59
          Quote: lucul
          These are the holes


          A sheet of iron was laid on top, the boatswain grabbed it slightly by welding along the edges.
          1. 0
            27 August 2019 06: 49
            A sheet of iron was laid on top, the boatswain grabbed it slightly by welding along the edges.

            Yes, of course, comrade storyteller. When the aircraft lands on deck, the latter experiences a dynamic load of 50-60k N / m. With this force, your welding will be torn off so that the sheet will burn through the belly of the plane landing on the deck and fly another 20 meters into the sky.
  21. +7
    25 August 2019 08: 23
    An interesting incident occurred on March 21, 1984, when our K-314 not only found itself in the center of the AUG at the head of the Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier, but also managed to rip its belly open with its propellers, and another thing, the striped ones were really worried about the appearance of high-speed and deep-sea submarines of the Project 661 type (record speed of 45 knots) and Project 945 (maximum diving depth of up to 600 meters) in the Soviet Union, that is, breaking through for a torpedo attack was not difficult, by the way, Project 945 is still in service and a salvo of 6 torpedo tubes is unlikely to leave any ship a chance of survival, much less such a fat target as an aircraft carrier, and the VA-111 has not yet been removed from service
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 12: 07
      Etc. 661 remained unique, as it was easily detected by its acoustic characteristics and destroyed outside the weapons zone. Etc. 945 has a chance of success only with special. combat units.
      Truly an aircraft carrier is afraid of the massive attacks of robotic drones with artificial intelligence.
      Moreover, this swarm can be based on converted tankers, bulk carriers, controlled by the CPSU thousands of miles from the battle.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 17: 48
        Project 661 remained unique, as it was easily detected by acoustic characteristics and destroyed...... liars. Project 661 was closed not because of acoustic signature, but because 10 Amethyst anti-ship missiles could not be fired in one salvo, the short range of 70 km and a separate salvo is a sure death of an expensive ship, as a replacement, Project 675 with 8 Malakhit anti-ship missiles that could fire in one salvo went into production,
        massive attacks by robot drones... again, the efforts over robot drones are still just PR. Electronic warfare is not sleeping, just like homing radiation such as neutron fields and gamma bursts
  22. + 15
    25 August 2019 08: 25
    The reactors themselves operate on the principle of "fail-safe" that is, the core of the reactor is partially filled with water as a neutron moderator, and the water is continuously pumped out by pumps. In the event of an accident, the pumps stop pumping water, a complete flooding of the core occurs, which leads to the killing of the reactor.

    Dear unknown author! If you don't know anything about nuclear reactors, don't write. The English term "fail-safe" refers to the functioning of shut-off valves, not a switchgear (NPPU). For example, in the absence of pressure, a pneumatic valve closes or opens a damper due to the action of conventional springs, which were compressed in the presence of pressure. Likewise with electromagnetic drives.

    The reactor is shut down by introducing absorbing rods into the core, and not by flooding it with "water". A back-up system, which can be used simultaneously with the main one, is the introduction of high concentrations of H3BO3 into the core.
    1. +6
      25 August 2019 11: 01
      Yes, he is clearly not aware of the operation of water-cooled reactors. The main difference between these and graphite reactors is that water primarily plays the role of a moderator. And flooding the reactor with water leads to an increase in the amount of moderator and, as a consequence, acceleration of the reactor. Unlike water, graphite is a moderator in graphite, and the surrounding water already absorbs neutrons. And flooding lowers the power of the reactor.
      Hence the main problem of a graphite reactor - when water evaporates (if its supply is disturbed), the amount of absorber in the core decreases and the reactor accelerates. As Chernobyl showed, in the absence of absorbing rods, this acceleration takes literally seconds. This is not the case in water reactors; when water evaporates, the power of the reactor drops and it shuts off itself, but the fuel continues to heat up and the core will inevitably melt with all the unpleasant consequences.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 16: 35
        And flooding with water reduces the reactor power..... this is an idle misconception. The first circuit of a water-cooled reactor is filled with distilled water and nothing else, the flow of running water leads to scale and, as a consequence, an excess of hydrogen (Fukushima is an example of this), in graphite reactors this is generally unacceptable. , because when the power drops in a graphite reactor, iodine accumulates, which leads to an "iodine pit", all absorbing rods must be lowered. Otherwise, the next thing will be argon (and by the way, like any noble gases) poisoning and acceleration of the neutron field (Chernobyl). It must definitely be suppressed, water-cooled reactors must have a supply of dissicilant. If they do not have it, then... Fukushima is guaranteed
  23. 0
    25 August 2019 08: 44
    Destroy the propellers with torpedoes, and the huge vessel is immobilized, and then rockets damage the takeoff and fire at a systematically stationary target.
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 10: 53
      Quote: Ricochet
      Destroy the propellers with torpedoes, and the huge vessel is immobilized, and then rockets damage the takeoff and fire at a systematically stationary target.

      Destroy all propellers with a competitive blade, damage the take-off deck with caps with earflaps and take the immobilized ship on board am
    2. 0
      25 August 2019 13: 14
      Snipers are everything. Torpedo and screw. She will ask you where to go.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 20: 44
        Run a few pieces, I think, kaka-thread yes get.
  24. +5
    25 August 2019 08: 44
    On combat alert, the aircraft carrier must urgently raise the entire air group. At the same time, he is forced to go on a constant course at full speed for quite a long time, and on the deck at this time there will be "many equipped and fueled aircraft." About "Granites" - the cumulative jet of their warhead travels about twenty meters, plus the debris of the missile and ship structures, some of which will be too heavy for anti-fragmentation protection ... No, I do not argue that the aircraft carrier is a difficult and tenacious target, but the author seems to be exaggerating his invulnerability.
    1. +2
      27 August 2019 16: 10
      Pancake. Above I already asked a question to the author.

      But where do you get the nonsense about the cumulative warhead "Granita"?

      Do you even imagine the principle of operation of a cumulative warhead? Google photos of tank damage from cumulative weapon hits and be surprised - you will see small holes up to a centimeter in diameter there, made in the armor by a cumulative jet. In this case, the jet itself quickly collapses, especially when it encounters obstacles. You will probably be surprised by the information that if the cumulative stream did not meet the tank’s tank in its path and did not cause its detonation, well, or if it didn’t get into the engine compartment, causing the engine to be destroyed, the tank remains fully operational and on the move ( maximum - one of the crew members may die from direct exposure to the jet itself or secondary fragments of the inner surface of the armor). What damage can a hole with a diameter (let it be adjusted for the scale of the RCC) 10-20 centimeters be capable of causing the aircraft’s engine? Despite the fact that the cumulative stream of 20 meters is from the field of even unscientific fiction! It will collapse after sheathing, well, the maximum (again, adjusted for the scale of the RCC), still having a bit of smoke in the compartment behind the sheathing. Google, at the same time, why all kinds of chains / nets / grilles / rubber screens are hung on armored vehicles to protect against cumulative ammunition.

      By the way, after doing a small set of simple movements and manipulations with the keyboard and mouse, what can be read in the banal Pedivikia about "Granite": the rocket is equipped with warheads of various types. It can be either a semi-armor-piercing (high-explosive-penetrating) warhead weighing 584-750 kg, or a tactical nuclear TNT equivalent of up to 500 kilotons.

      Do not be lazy, do the same simple set of movements and manipulations with the controls of your device and see, at least, an article in Pedivikia "Cumulative effect". I assure you that in addition to the general expansion of your personal horizons and an increase in your intellectual baggage, this will also allow you to avoid such embarrassment in the future.
  25. +4
    25 August 2019 08: 48
    Since WW2 and the post-war Forrestols, weapons have stepped forward a lot, volumetric explosion ammunition, deep-penetrating anti-bunker, anti-aerodrome cassettes have appeared. It is possible to use ammunition with slowing down (especially for emergency teams), especially nasty chemicals, etc. But the article deals simply with explosive barrels.
    If we consider the issue from a practical point of view, then the aircraft carrier - the eyes and ears of the whole squadron, and of a large radius. Plus, the basis of air defense. What is the use of the patched deck, restored aerofinisher, etc., if during the inactivity of the aircraft all landing ships, supply ships, arsenal ships, anti-aircraft equipment, etc. were sunk.
    1. +1
      25 August 2019 13: 15
      Volume explosion ammunition needs calm weather. That the sea is simply impossible. If only because the ship is on. And he himself creates the wind.
      1. +1
        25 August 2019 18: 53
        So it will explode inside the hangar. Or even deeper.
        1. 0
          7 September 2019 07: 47
          Oh ... read the principle of operation of ammunition volumetric explosion. Even if this is done, then why a volume explosion in the room? There, the usual concentrated charge works as it should. The more iron is pointed around the charge, the more destruction there will be.
  26. +2
    25 August 2019 08: 53
    At VO there was already an article where they wrote that sows should not be touched. First of all, destroyers must be drowned. With which, in principle, I agree.
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 19: 05
      Quote: Igor Pa
      At VO there was already an article where they wrote that sows should not be touched. The destroyers must be drowned first.

      Any commander has a task - the defeat (destruction) of the MAIN TARGET, and not the destruction of the ships of the order, unless, of course, such a task is specifically set for the forces ensuring a breakthrough to the main target.
      So, you incorrectly understand the main task and purpose of the operation of the fleet forces to destroy the enemy’s anti-aircraft gun.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 20: 23
        This was my article and the logic in it was simple - instead of a massive strike with a breakthrough, a series of numerous limited strikes against external guarding ships are delivered to the main target in order to force the AUG / AUS commander to move URO strike ships with Tomahawks and then with them into the air defense order to do the same.

        The goal is to minimize the total salvo of the missile connection by the time it reaches the launch line. And on the AV in general to score, on a breakthrough to this main goal, you can put all the Air Force.
        1. 0
          25 August 2019 20: 40
          Quote: timokhin-aa
          And on the AV in general to score, on a breakthrough to this main goal, you can put all the Air Force.

          The namesake, hello!
          The thing is that the Hornets are based on the AVU, each of which carries 4-6 harpoons or axes. So count: 780-900 km carrier (depending on flight profile) plus 280 Harpoon or 600 ax - total: up to 1500 km fire zone ... And this may not be a one-time action, like RCC, but 3- 4 times per day (120 s / departures - the norm!). Therefore, closer to my views, the official concept of the destruction of the main target as the primary task of the forces of the OBK / KUG.
          something like that, however.
          1. 0
            25 August 2019 21: 00
            That's right, but we don’t have the strength to break through to the aircraft carrier. I am not trying to betray the need for virtue, but now we don’t have MRA, we don’t have dozens of regiments of bombers with anti-ship missiles. But there is a greyhound policy, and by the time of a hypothetical clash with amers, we can easily not be in time with preparation. At such a pace as now - we will not be in time 100%.

            In addition, the loss of guided missile ships may lead to their retreat, or, for example, to the removal of the escort from the supply tankers (and it can be sunk on the approach to the AUG, and without kerosene, aircraft do not fly), or, in extreme cases, a breakthrough to the AV at a certain point will become real due to the weakening of the order.

            And so you have to fly hundreds of miles under continuous bombardment.
            1. 0
              25 August 2019 23: 53
              Quote: timokhin-aa
              And so you have to fly hundreds of miles under continuous bombardment.

              Namesake, are you only considering MRA in this operation? But the Pacific Fleet and Northern Fleet created anti-aircraft carrier submarines, the basis of which were Project 949A submarines... After some time, our nuclear carriers will receive 3M22 anti-ship missiles... That's when we'll be able to "see"! But this is an event of the near future. That's when we'll have to seriously think about the future of "such" supergiants as Nimitz, which, however, does not cancel aircraft carriers as a class. And that's where F-35B/Yak-41V aircraft will be needed...
              And here you’ll think: are our TAKRs so bad as they are painted by all-fingers?
              But ...
              1. +2
                26 August 2019 08: 48
                I at one time argued a lot on this subject with some comrades from the Pacific Fleet, in particular from the OKVS headquarters.

                All these jokes with a wait for a missile salvo, joint attacks by submarines and aircraft, even during the exercises, didn’t really work - the carriers have too different speeds, too many things need to be synchronized in order to fall on the AUG together, but what’s there just by submarines to catch the AUG going on 17 nodes so that stealth is not lost, an almost unsolvable task.

                In the real world, the cycle of defeating an AUG can only look like this: the AUG enters the detection zone of a surface-to-air radar or other reconnaissance means, or is detected by aviation, submarines, etc. In the case of remote detection, an assessment is also made of the closest to it in terms of location SSS capable of classifying it (this could be a submarine that accidentally ended up nearby, or a reconnaissance squadron of future "Heroes of the Russian Federation (posthumously)"), then it is classified, and then something will be needed that we traditionally pay little attention to - a detachment of air or naval forces will be needed, capable of holding at a sufficiently close distance from the AUG long enough to provide continuous targeting information to strike aviation from the shore.

                Which is already being hit. And here the scheme with the extinguishing of destroyers looks much more preferable.

                I have one constant interlocutor who is fixated on this topic, he even had a coursework on carrying out an attack on the AUG by different methods, and so, if in the calculations of the combat stability of "Arleigh Burke", in the external guarding of orders (not in the depth of defense) take the available "Closed" to the public coefficients, it turned out that the four "Sukhoi" with a pair of X-35 each, Burke knocks well, let's say, with a very high probability, provided that the missiles were simultaneously cut off in the ranks.

                And I am inclined to suck in, because the last ship in the warrant, firstly, cannot solve the problem of simultaneously detecting high-altitude and low-altitude targets, and secondly, no one covers it, and thirdly, it most often has nowhere to get external guidance for the SAM, and it turns out that its ceiling for destroying the goals that are reaching for it is not so big.

                Hence the idea. The main thing is to neutralize their interference, but the Aerospace Forces just flies with missiles that have different "heads", the PRR is just not enough on the same glider as the anti-ship missile for complete happiness.

                And it turns out that you need approximately 160 sorties to peel the AUG as sticky from the edges. Moreover, this is with an escort of interceptors who will deal with BVP and divert the attention of anti-aircraft gunners.

                By the way, the Chinese have long ago established in their doctrine that the main targets are missile ships, not aircraft carriers, and in our VMA in the mid-2000s they thought about something like that, but it was not supported there, and then the MRA was dispersed, but I think this course of action is more correct than a suicidal attack on air defense with a couple of hundred SAMs in a salvo.

                Again, recalling the aforementioned comrade, the option of breaking through the dense order of ships with IJIS according to the above scheme required that Kuznetsov with an air group of maximum strength and an escort be thrown for aerial reconnaissance, tracking, and maintaining contact. And since I came to similar conclusions earlier (only he also cheated it), I think everything is correct.

                I won’t write anything about Zircon, we’ll wait for open tests, something tells me that it’s still not close to them.
                1. 0
                  26 August 2019 19: 58
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  All these jokes with a wait for a missile salvo, joint attacks by submarines and aircraft, even during the exercises, didn’t really work - the carriers have too different speeds, too many things need to be synchronized in order to fall on the AUG together,

                  Everything was much "simpler" in the north.
                  1. Striking forces along the lines. With the arrival of AMG on the line - an attack by the estimated composition of forces. NK very well drowned in boats, without crap for MPA.
                  2. Strike the AMG at the appointed time. Here, during this time, the time taken for the approach of the volley missiles to the bot, and not the "detachment", as in aviation. Therefore, the calculation of the time of the volley is different for everyone. This is the job of the CBR-rocket.
                  3. It is much more difficult to organize the strike of the SSGN division, since management ... (however, I will keep quiet about this). But here, too, they got rid of it and decided this "rebus".
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  by submarines to catch the AUG running on 17 nodes so that stealth is not lost, an almost unsolvable task.

                  Curtaining is the business of the managing director of the Communist Party. And with increasing depth, the boat's maximum quiet speed is also rubbed. Therefore, everything is in the operator’s hands: it’s difficult to get it onto D ass. So that the weapon gets out!
                  Quote: timokhin-aa
                  the AUG lesion cycle can only look like this ...
                  The namesake, you have a school idea of ​​the tactics of the Navy ... Everything has been different for a long time. Perhaps the only tasks left are the forces spaced along the lines: detecting, identifying, striking (providing, main, main, in the development of success) So, let's not nightmare grandma!)))))
                  The following is a brief summary of my objections.
                  1. The problem of central control will be solved through space., Or PBA, maybe another system of lighting the situation. Nobody will send forces for slaughter under the attacks of aircraft carrier aircraft. 45 minutes of battle and there will simply be nothing to shoot ...
                  2. Four Su-24 / 34, 22m3 with 4 PCR X-35? to burke? And Aegis, he must have broken down and is not covered by an air patrol with an AVM?
                  3. Link-16 was specially invented for network-centric wars. Therefore, VZOI at the adversary at altitude. What I wish with all my heart ...
                  4. 160 sorties? But who would allow such a luxury during the war. Yes, in the face of active opposition,
                  Don't ... "We don't need a blacksmith!" (from) laughing
                  5. The main goal is missile ships with the Ajis ... And this can be, if the task is to mow the sea frontier of the missile defense system to ensure the ICBM strike of the missile army ... But such a task will be solved in a comprehensive framework as part of the operation to deliver nuclear weapons at strategic objectives on the territory adversary. And the fleet will have supporting actions ...
                  6. Lord! Why didn't Kuzya please you? Why do you want to send the old man to the slaughter? The Ams have already worked out the oncoming battle between AMG and our "Kuzi". Their fire impact began from 1360 km !!! Our Kuzya with his Su-33s will be beaten unrequitedly up to D = 700 km! And what will be left of him ??? No, ... "We don't need a blacksmith!" Yes
                  And since I came to similar conclusions earlier (only he also calculated it), I think that everything is correct.
                  SAS, maybe you’re right in thinking, here are just the combat potentials (according to the VMA technique!) Of ship groups and forces, count ...
                  Therefore: BABA YAGA --- AGAINST!!! am
                  1. +1
                    28 August 2019 11: 13
                    Well, now our submarines won’t even come close to the NK, and neither will our aircraft carrier. Americans Most likely they will hide it in the fjords.

                    Ungrateful thing is to fight in the comments)))))

                    Therefore, I will limit myself to this.

                    amers have aviocentric thinking. They will see the main goal in Kuz. No options.

                    In addition, they know that the Kuznetsov air group will not allow their BPA to fly freely, and without this they risk missing out on the deployment of the SSBN.
                    Well, etc.

                    So - if you are absolutely accurate, 100% know what the enemy will do, then this is good, right?

                    So I would show Kuzya to the Americans, and so that they could not see him.

                    And I would wait for them to collapse on .... my tanker with corner reflectors)))) To get into a missile ambush at the exit from the attack, and at the exit to the clipping zone with the aircraft of the same Kuzi. Already without fuel, of course.

                    Something like that.

                    I think it’s not worth continuing without a card and intermediaries)))))
                    1. 0
                      28 August 2019 17: 05
                      Quote: timokhin-aa
                      I think it’s not worth continuing without a card and intermediaries)))))

                      I agree. Yours faithfully, hi
  27. +6
    25 August 2019 09: 00
    The author did not say a word about the antenna systems AB. They are incapacitated much easier than structural elements and the ship becomes deaf and blind. And this is in addition to the rest of the damage. Numerous electrical cables are also torn, and not just torn, but short-circuit occurs with all the consequences. The mechanisms are jammed from shaking and from fragments. In general, a lot of things come out. The ship may not sink, but it will have to work there wonderfully.
    1. +1
      25 August 2019 10: 11
      Withdrew from the tongue ... In the affected area, everything moving and massive with a high degree of probability wedges, much of the massive breaks off the foundations. The set and body deforms. Deck equipment in dust. These are not VM2 battleships
  28. +1
    25 August 2019 09: 04
    Conclusion
    Aircraft carrier is truly a "toughie", which is really difficult to crack, and with its air wing he is the most dangerous enemy at sea.

    BUT!!! stop
    ... a direct hit on an aircraft carrier of a special charge (nuclear munition) ensures that the aircraft carrier remains only in memories.

    All that remains is to rejoice at the increased accuracy of anti-ship missiles and their ever-increasing number, and also to rejoice together with scientists at the diversity of charges in the SBC, of ​​which, for example, the neutron charge is capable of “neutralizing” the electronics of all equipment with fast and “not in a hurry” neutrons, turning it into a pile of iron, and the crew, turning them into corpses - one is enough tablets rackets ... bully
  29. +5
    25 August 2019 09: 18
    Of course the ship is heavily protected, no one argues. But life somehow does not fit into a certain framework. And the Titanic was considered unsinkable, and Hitler hoped to deal with the USSR in six months, and the Stripes thought that after 91 years Russia would fall apart, but, but, but ........ There are always people or circumstances that cross out certain plans and calculations. So we will not make plans. I was convinced of this from my own experience, sometimes you think, well, the whole kirdyk has arrived, but no, you are floating out somehow, the circumstances are changing and it seems not everything is so scary, but it happens and vice versa, it’s all like a Christmas tree and here he creeps up, the northern furry animal .
  30. +1
    25 August 2019 09: 21
    Why drown it right away. By screws to stand and on the deck to make it difficult to take off / take off.
  31. +2
    25 August 2019 09: 26
    Dear author, do not rush to publish the material for all to see. Undoubtedly, the article is interesting, well presented, but, unfortunately, it is full of linguistic errors - cases, semantics ... Proofread the material, please, and your rating will increase
  32. +6
    25 August 2019 09: 32
    In the long-standing 1979 years, I went on an archaeological expedition with a physicist who wrote a dissertation on the screening by vehicles and mechanisms of a ship of the damaging effects of a nuclear explosion. He told me not too much, but even then I realized that no one would try to sink an aircraft carrier with conventional ammunition. That’s why the fleet has special ammunition. Just talking about it is not accepted. For some reason. lol
  33. +1
    25 August 2019 10: 17
    Why didn't the author evaluate the impact of a 406 mm armor-piercing shell? American battleships are museums, if you really want them, you can put them into service. China and India (the most likely opponents of the United States) already have aircraft carriers. Let's say China doesn't have an analogue of Nimitz or J. Ford, but how long will it take for them to appear?
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 11: 06
      Long. Too many parts of the ship must be reinvented without experience (which will inevitably lead to serious design errors in ships of the first series). Plus, you need docks that can build ships of this size. Here, about 20 years will be needed in modern times, when huge amounts of money are not allocated to armaments.
  34. bar
    0
    25 August 2019 10: 46
    And although the ship is not an armored floating fortress, like a battleship, yet its enormous linear dimensions practically exclude the spread of the damaging factors of non-nuclear munitions.

    The Titanic was also big ...
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 13: 20
      The "Titanic" was drowned by illiterate people, by illiterate actions.
      1. bar
        0
        25 August 2019 15: 18
        How literate people will be and what literate actions they will take will be clear only at the last moment. While all this is 50/50, either literate or not.
  35. sen
    +1
    25 August 2019 10: 53
    According to ZVO:
    American experts note that aircraft carriers have great survivability. So, 7-12 anti-ship missiles can put an aircraft carrier out of action on a small line, and sink at least 20.
  36. AML
    -1
    25 August 2019 10: 54
    Where to go to give up?
    The author describes the behavior of a spherical horse in a vacum under ideal conditions. If you start to fight the fire, then the fire has already occurred, or do you think that the mattresses are so unreasonable that with the first threat in their direction they will immediately begin to throw off the equipment overboard?
    The Titanic was the size of a hoo, but one iceberg was enough.
    1. -1
      25 August 2019 14: 23
      I agree!
      I was especially touched by the "watering" of the deck. Even without an attack, if a plane at the start or a landed plane just explodes - a coincidence ... Is it serious that a gardening system will stop burning kerosene and detonating ammunition? Or is there a special solution? Hello deck crew ...
      1. 0
        7 September 2019 07: 50
        Read why this watering. In secret: on each of our ships such a system also exists. Serves to remove radioactive fallout.
        Water burning kerosene will not extinguish. But wash off overboard.
  37. for
    -1
    25 August 2019 10: 55
    Quote: apro
    Amers have a category of military-fighting people fighting for citizenship. No one is waiting for these in the states. But no one asks their citizens either. Representatives of the downward classes are fighting. Relatives of whom can shut their mouths with compensation. Money is everything.

    Here we have only the children of officials serving.
  38. -1
    25 August 2019 11: 08
    According to Russian experts, in order to disable an aircraft carrier, it is necessary to hit 8-10 anti-ship missiles. In order to do this, simultaneously destroying half of the guard ships, it is necessary to use 70-100 anti-ship missiles in one stroke.

    According to my article:
    http://www.sinor.ru/~bukren/aviano_5.htm#3
    1. +1
      25 August 2019 19: 21
      Quote: riwas
      According to my article:

      Excellent student! So did you write this?
      But nothing that the source is outdated like the Red flag on the barricades of Red Presnya?
      Or do we care what people hang on their ears? Type hawala!
      Well, damn it, you give, excellent pupil! laughing
  39. +2
    25 August 2019 11: 10
    The American operation Crossroads was conducted in the Bikini Atoll lagoon in 1946 to test the consequences of the use of nuclear weapons on a ship connection. Two bombs of the implosive type "Tolstyak" with a capacity of 23 Ktn were used as nuclear charges.

    About one hundred ships took part in the tests: aircraft carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, watchdogs, submarines in the surface, auxiliary vessels.

    The first explosion was made in the air at an altitude of 160 meters. All ships within a radius of 1 km were sunk or seriously damaged with complete disability, including two battleships and an aircraft carrier. Outside of this radius, ships suffered injuries of varying gravity. Most of the damage was done by the shock wave. Animals located behind the 400-mm armor of the battleship at a distance of 800 meters from the epicenter of the explosion died four days later from radiation sickness after neutron damage from the explosion.

    The second explosion was carried out underwater at a depth of 30 meters. As a result of a hydrodynamic shock in an 1 radius, an aircraft carrier, a battleship and other ships sank. Within a radius of 2 km, the ships were covered with a layer of radioactive bottom sludge (formed after neutron irradiation) up to 3 meters thick with the impossibility of deactivating the ships after cleaning the sludge.

    P.S. The Russian thermonuclear charge TK 66-05 with a capacity of 250 Ktn weighs 140 kg (can be installed on any missile or torpedo, including "Caliber", "Dagger", X-32, "Zircon" and "Shkvali") and has a radius of damage from a shock wave or water hammer 2,5 times greater than the nuclear charge of the "Fat Man" bomb.
    At the same time, the 66-05 airborne explosion at an altitude of 1,5 km above sea level does not entail induced radiation and radioactive pollution of the atmosphere, water area and watercraft.
    "Cheap, reliable and practical" (C)
    1. 0
      3 September 2019 17: 40
      In my opinion, there were completely different results. Do you have a link to this data?
  40. +4
    25 August 2019 11: 11
    I have not finished reading. Even to the middle. For some reason I remembered the destroyer URO Sheffield. But Exocet didn't even explode.
    1. +1
      25 August 2019 14: 28
      Quote: visitork67
      I have not finished reading. Even to the middle. For some reason I remembered the destroyer URO Sheffield. But Exocet didn't even explode.

      I’m afraid to even imagine what would happen - if it exploded all what the "partners" delivered to Argentina .....
      England would have stood in a corner on peas and pitifully squished her nose .....
      1. +1
        25 August 2019 19: 29
        Quote: your1970
        England would have stood in a corner on peas and pitifully squished her nose.

        You seriously underestimate the iron lady! Margaret Thatcher seriously considered the issue of the use of nuclear weapons, if necessary. And nuclear weapons were on board the ships of the expeditionary squadron. And there was a nuclear submarine there too, but they don’t go to the BS without such clappers ...
        So, Argentina was doomed to failure in advance, because decided to compete with the NUCLEAR POWER. Weight categories - different!
        1. 0
          26 August 2019 00: 18
          Alexander, when the British squadron was heading to the South Atlantic, it unloaded all its nuclear weapons off the northern coast of Spain onto one transport (I can't remember its name right now) - 16 WE-177 bombs from the Hermes, 10 from the Invincible, and three more, one from each of the three Sheffields and similar ships. A total of 29 WE-177 universal bombs. No other ships carried nuclear weapons. British submarines were never armed with nuclear weapons. So the King, or rather the Queen, was naked in that war.
        2. 0
          26 August 2019 00: 55
          In general, the British Navy in 1982 did not impress with nuclear weapons. 192 ET317 warheads (analogous to the American W-58) on Polaris SLBMs on four Resolution-class SSBNs and 40 WE-177 universal bombs on Sheffield-class aircraft carriers and destroyers (one per destroyer). The first with a capacity of 200 kt, the second 10 kt for ground targets and depths of up to 500 meters and 0,5 kt for surface targets and depths of up to 10 meters.
        3. 0
          26 August 2019 00: 58
          So-so nuclear power, we had more nuclear weapons on one "Kiev".
  41. +3
    25 August 2019 11: 14
    No one in mind and health considered the aircraft carrier an easy target, practice has shown the opposite, but it is impossible to consider it invulnerable either. All that one person was able to build, then he can destroy (or put to the bottom) someone else
    In the case of the fire on the Forrestal, on its flight deck it exploded: 16 bombs with a caliber of 453 kg ... But it must be clarified that these were old bombs from the Second World War, where the explosives degraded and their power was lower than that of the new bombs,
    it should also be noted that 250 kg of TNT from old bombs that exploded on the surface is far from the same as the explosion of a 400 kilogram warhead of modern anti-ship missiles inside the ship’s hull.
    In the case of the Enterprise, on its flight deck, it detonated ... 6 225 kg bombs. However, the holes were not huge, and after clearing the deck
    Of course, the deck worked like a screen, 90% of all the explosion energy went into the sky.
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 17: 27
      after the explosion of 14 such bombs on the deck, Tirpitz could not walk without repair for two months, standing at the base, and aircraft carriers crossed two oceans under their own power
  42. 0
    25 August 2019 12: 17
    After the 2nd World War they are used only against the "Papuans". What will happen in real life in a collision with any power with a high combat potential is a question. It would be better if he never dared.
  43. -1
    25 August 2019 12: 25
    The Titanic was also unsinkable !!! wink
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 05: 41
      "The Titanic was also unsinkable !!!"
      Just to croak something!
      1. -1
        26 August 2019 10: 13
        I do not like cranks who fantasize based on TTX from magazines and the like.
  44. +1
    25 August 2019 12: 39
    The article is pure theory. But... someone died, someone was simply scared, except for fuel and ammunition - almost everything on the ship burns. (I know from personal experience). When a strike is made, part (and possibly a large part) of the equipment for the fight for survivability will also be disabled. The ship's internal communications will be disrupted, etc., etc.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  45. 0
    25 August 2019 12: 40
    To correctly assess the capabilities of an aircraft carrier, you must always remember what it is in general.
    An aircraft carrier is a neutered mobile airfield. Short for AKM (Castrated Mobile Airfield). Castrated because it has short GDP, which means that all types of aircraft cannot take off from it, mobility is limited by the surface of the oceans.

    The main advantage of AKM is the ability to detect and attack the target over a long distance. During WWII, the aircraft did not fly 200 km, and the guns of the battleships were hit by 40, which led to the advantage of AKM. The range of detection and defeat of modern RKR is inferior to AKM, so it remains formidable opponents in the open ocean.

    If AKM works against a land area with a full-fledged airfield, then it is obviously in a losing situation in terms of attack. In terms of defense - even worse. Unlike a full-fledged airfield, the AKM can drown, the aircraft cannot be dispersed, it is driven by a nuclear bomb, and it can also be attacked from under water.

    In addition to ground aviation, with the exit from the INF Treaty, the task of defeating the AKM is solved by the analog of the Pioneer RSD-10 with a nuclear warhead.
    Guidance will be provided by the promising over-the-horizon R29B6 "Container" radar, the range of which is almost 1000 km longer than the capabilities of the AKM.

    [Center]
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 13: 08
      On the whole, I agree, but no one canceled the ABM and the problem with conventional airfields is that it is much easier to bomb the GDP.
      The same war in Georgia 2008 proved it.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 13: 23
        The problem with conventional airfields is that it’s much easier to bomb the GDP.

        Why is it easier? The AKM VVP has 10 cm steel, it can be damaged, and it is problematic to repair it at sea. A full-fledged airfield has a concrete surface, a battalion of supermen from the construction battalion can repair it in an hour. If you mean air defense, then the whole spectrum is at your disposal: from S-500 to Tunguska.
        1. +1
          27 August 2019 18: 10
          Quote: Arzt
          Why is it easier? AKM’s GDP has 10 cm of steel, it can be damaged, and it is problematic to restore to the sea. A full-fledged airfield has a concrete coating, a battalion of supermen from a construction battalion will be restored in an hour.

          Because the airfield is not moving. And the range of weapons capable of operating on a fixed target is much wider than those that operate on moving ones. A stationary airfield can be processed even with planning bombs with ANN - and there will be hits. smile
    2. +1
      27 August 2019 18: 08
      Quote: Arzt

      If AKM works against a land area with a full-fledged airfield, then it is obviously in a losing situation in terms of attack.

      Oh-ho-ho ... well, there will never be a one-on-one knightly duel. Open the same Sherman and see how the Americans took out the Japanese base aircraft.
      The main advantage of AB is its mobility and the ability to concentrate forces. If the enemy has an AB, he can at any moment create local superiority in forces on the weakest part of the coast, fall there on one or two of our airfields with 5-6 air wings - and knock out the forces and airbases based there. And we will either have to drag reinforcements from remote aerodromes (with the prospect of losing the interaction of the attracted forces and the ability for the enemy to split our forces in parts), or to build excess airfields at all important points in order to ensure maneuver of forces (which would cost no more than AB - taking into account the need to maintain the combat readiness of these airfields).
  46. The comment was deleted.
    1. +2
      25 August 2019 13: 23
      Therefore, we sit and do not rock the boat. And we are doing it right. I think that Putin remembers Chechnya very well and how much it costs just in money. No one needs such adventures. And how foreign policy is conducted is understandable.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      25 August 2019 14: 55
      Quote: Daniil Efimenko
      And the Americans will send 12 thousand Abrams against our 12 thousand Soviet-made T-72s and we will manage it.
      - wonderful !! sent and?
      they drove into the Smolensk region - and diesel fuel there by-bye, blew up oil depots - they ourselves or we (it doesn’t matter, in principle, the axiom of any war is the destruction of fuel and lubricants). Okay, God bless him, brought them diesel fuel from Poland. They drove another 100 km, again got up-broken (on our roads any foreign cars break down) -and there are no factories for repair / production of tanks nearby .. They are waiting for it to be brought from the USA ...
      They brought-even 200 km drove, got up? No !!! I had to drive back some of the tanks — these Russians on their ancient T-72s liked very much fuel trucks to burn on quite long logistics routes and drive airfields at night.
      Again partisans ...

      God be with him !!! all the ancient Soviet tanks burned down, the army surrendered, Putin was scared and did not use nuclear weapons - then what?
      The Abrams are standing on Red Square and scratching each other's heads with their trunks - "And what's next?"

      The local population is extremely dissatisfied (with the exception of individual liberals) with the occupation - for some reason they kill "peaceful liberators", industry - bye-bye (refineries, industry and all infrastructure were already burned down in the first days of the war), international exchanges - in full by-product - all fell indices of all countries, in Siberia the remnants of the Russian army are up to something - but it's scary to go there even in tanks ...

      What purpose?

      In Afghanistan, the goal is simple - to control and influence the southern borders of Russia. And if the USA ALREADY in Russia? what's next? Well, they overthrew Putin-appointed his own .. Then what?
      1. +1
        25 August 2019 15: 23
        Quote: your1970
        Quote: Daniil Efimenko
        And the Americans will send 12 thousand Abrams against our 12 thousand Soviet-made T-72s and we will manage it.
        I'm shy to ask where did you get 12 000 Abramsov ????
        "Australia - 59 M1A1 AIM, as of 2017 [67]. Purchased in 2006 to replace Leopard 1A3 tanks. Sourced from US Armed Forces [68]
        Egypt (manufactured under license) - 1100 M1A1, as of 2018 [69]
        Iraq - about 100 M1A1, as of 2017 [70]
        Kuwait - 218 M1A2 as of 2017 [71]
        Morocco - More 27 M1A1 SA, as of 2018 [72]
        Saudi Arabia - 370 M1A2 and M1A2S, as of 2017 [73].
        USA - 775 M1A1SA, 1609 M1A2 SEPv2 (more 3500 M1 / M2 in storage) [74] and 447 M1A1 in ILC, as of 2017 [75] "

        Even to collect all zagashnikov and export from Egypt - still not typed ... fellow
        1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. +2
          25 August 2019 22: 05
          Quote: Daniil Efimenko
          They will divide the Russian Federation as Germany wanted to the Reich Commissioners,
          - I’ve tried it twice already. The effect turned out to be the opposite - divided up Germany
          Quote: Daniil Efimenko
          And the discontented population will be silent, as it has done for hundreds of years, in the case of the Republic of Ingushetia, in the USSR, and now.
          - Especially it was silent in the last war, huh ...
    4. +2
      25 August 2019 15: 56
      Yeah, of course, everyone forgot about missile defense systems
      existing missile defense systems are either non-strategic and serve as a means of tactical integration, or are experimental ones.
      And the Americans will send 12 thousand Abrams against our 12 thousand Soviet-made T-72
      what kind of "abrams", oksts, 12 thousand serviceable and navigable tanks from around the globe can not be collected, from all countries combined.
      In case the Third World War begins, they will simply crush us on all fronts
      for that matter, Russia has one of the largest mobilization potentials, and China is likely to take our side, which would not at all like to remain one-night against the “hegemon”
      There will be no nuclear war no calm down
      Of course, until “the armor is strong, and our tanks are fast,” it would never occur to anyone to attack Russia.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +3
          25 August 2019 18: 17
          Yes, such fools cannot do missile defense systems for decades.
          You won’t believe it, but yes! To hit a rocket in a rocket at a range of several hundred / thousand kilometers, this task is nowadays extremely difficult for everyone, and the United States is no exception. The simplest modern example is missile entertainment of puffy juche, when the Korean, American and Japanese military (far from the most backward countries, right?) Can not even track the North Korean ballistic missiles launched in their direction. I think you should not remind that the Russian missile potential is very different from the Korean, both in quantity and quality?
          Within a few days they will be able to remove the tanks from conservation, restore them to their natural state and send them anywhere in the world.
          do not carry nonsense, tanks with conservation need capital restoration, all polymer parts for replacement, tired metal (many alloys corrode even in a sterile desert, age over time, degrade and even flow under gravity). Under the old tanks there are no zips, no crews, many do not even have modern guns.
          I’m not saying that this technique cannot be restored to a capable state, but it’s not days or weeks. A huge amount of work will take more than one year, even in emergency mode.
          Yes, the United States has 350 million people, the Russian Federation has 146, but the mobilization resource of the Russian Federation is greater, you have problems with mathematics.
          Aw, chuchka is not a reader - Chukchi writer?
          Quote: Corn
          for that matter, in Russia one of the most great mobilization potentials
          it’s worthwhile to understand that it’s not enough for the population to simply be, only a small part of the male population from the reserve are mobilized, which may be useful in the army, and here Russia with stable traditions of the mass conscript army will be ahead of the rest.
          China has never been an ally of Russia
          I know that very well. China is an ally to itself, and that is why it will in every way impede the further buildup of Western influence in its neighborhood.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  47. +1
    25 August 2019 13: 25
    A pointless question if you have not confirmed your willingness to defend yourself using Doomsday Weapons. If a state or country does not recover from the collapse, then it continues to degrade and disintegrate. The question is: under what conditions, even the possession of an aircraft carrier fleet does not give the United States the opportunity to dictate its political conditions.
  48. +1
    25 August 2019 13: 36
    I must say right away that the author in the article does not raise questions such as: how many missiles will break through the Aegis shield or the chances of a submarine breaking through to the center of a ship’s order. No, let’s imagine a purely hypothetical situation in which missiles and torpedoes safely reach their goal.

    And why is this spherical horse in a vacuum? The survivability of an aircraft carrier is determined by its escort. In the situation considered by the author, one rocket per runway is enough for one pile up to the superstructure. And that's it - the aircraft carrier slowly and sadly goes to the docks, which happened with Forrestal and Enterprise.
  49. -1
    25 August 2019 13: 36
    Not much needed. After the Second World War, the German, unfinished aircraft carrier was in the hands of the USSR. It was built completely. A catapult was not installed, and something for him to start moving. Soviet bombers used it as a target to find out where to get, so that he would die. Learned. The Japanese also drowned American aircraft carriers, so that there are no undying in this galaxy.
    1. +1
      26 August 2019 12: 23
      "Graf Zeppelin" did not sink for several hours, despite a lot of hits. I had to finish off with torpedoes.
  50. -1
    25 August 2019 13: 59
    As I understand it, the author survived more than one attack on aircraft carriers .. ☺
    They have not yet tried to sink an aircraft carrier for a simple reason. And not because of their mythical survivability known only on paper, but because of the protection of a whole order of destroyers and submarines as part of the AUG, including the air wing itself.
    For the sofa, as the author writes, analysis of necessary articles on three sheets in small handwriting with drawings and photos.
    Two components are needed:
    1 - charge delivery to an aircraft carrier
    2 - charge power sufficient to cause critical damage.
    Delivery is carried out by group launch of hypersonic missiles, for which, according to the recognition of American developers of aircraft carrier protection systems, they have no countermeasures.
    And the charge power is provided by a tactical nuclear warhead.
    As a result, a few heavy destroyers, cruisers or nuclear submarines with hypersonic nuclear weapons are enough to guarantee the sinking of a floating airfield.
    Something like that ..☻
    1. -3
      25 August 2019 14: 56
      You forgot about another important component: target designation. To shoot spherical hypersonic missiles, you need to know where the carrier group is located. Otherwise, your entire arsenal is useless. The aircraft carrier does not have such a problem, he is able to detect surface ships in advance with his flying radars, and for submarines he has his own anti-submarine aviation, escort and 1-2 multi-purpose hunter submarines.

      In order not to be unfounded: in 1982, at the peak of the power of the Soviet fleet, its reconnaissance, incl. and space, the American aircraft carrier group was able to go unnoticed to a distance of 300 miles southeast of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and conducted carrier-based flights there at a distance of 150 km from the Soviet coast. Here's the link:

      http://www.38brrzk.ru/public/russia-parl-harbor/

      And Russia's intelligence capabilities cannot be compared with that period.
      1. -2
        26 August 2019 10: 24
        the distance is 300 miles southeast of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky ....... so for information, the Aleutian ridge is practically all of the territory of the United States, therefore it is not forbidden to maneuver on its territory, and nothing the USSR maneuvered on Cape Dezhnev constantly, and it’s 60 km from Alaska, by hook or by crook, but this is the territory of the United States, well, in the appendage, the Boeing of Enemies still assaulted in 1981
  51. +4
    25 August 2019 14: 43
    Quote: Aerodrome
    The article is pure theory. If in the event of military action, at least one aircraft carrier is destroyed, no matter how, the rest, I think, will be afraid to go to combat zones. It will be expensive, and "unacceptable losses" are a sacred point for the Americans.

    Well, all such articles are pure theory. Even special operations to sink old ships, in particular aircraft carriers, do not provide an answer, since the human factor is removed. Yes, if at least one aircraft carrier is destroyed, the others will become more careful. But the question is precisely in its destruction. After all, it is no secret what kind of forces were allocated to sink one aircraft carrier. How many MRA regiments. The goal is very, very difficult, if we are not talking about the use of special ammunition. And here we sometimes "throw caps at", believing that disabling an aircraft carrier is a piece of cake. And as they correctly wrote here, the possibility of an order and the air wing itself is not considered ...
    At one time, a book by our Admiral Kapitanets was published. It was called EMNIP "War at Sea". There the author considered the question of how many missiles are needed. True, the use of X-22 missiles was considered, that is, the use of aviation. As far as I remember, the failure was hit by 8-10 Kh-22 missiles, sinking (?) - 11-12...

    Quote: kiborg
    And now, politicians are different, and citizens are no longer going to die for other people's ambitions. Learned to appreciate life. She is there at a high level ..

    The question is ambiguous. Now Americans are dying in Afghanistan and in other hot spots, but for some reason there are no protests, as there were during the Vietnam War, when these protests grew into demonstrations and marches of many thousands almost to the White House. Not visible...

    Quote: Den717
    Surprisingly, you are probably the only one who understands that an aircraft carrier is not exactly a “spherical horse in a vacuum.” You are absolutely correct, in my opinion, in believing that if there is a need to sink a US aircraft carrier, then this means that it has STARTED.

    For some reason, the sinking of an aircraft carrier is equated with nuclear war. But aircraft carriers take part in dozens of nuclear conflicts where the other party is not the USSR/Russia. Take, for example, the promising (it would be better, of course, that this does not happen) conflict between the United States and Iran. The latter does not have nuclear weapons and the main task will be to inflict maximum losses on the enemy. In particular, try to destroy such a mobile base as the AUG. so the sinking of an aircraft carrier, although in the article it is rather theoretical in nature, is not a “sphero-horse”. This is a task that is difficult, but not impossible. And events may not develop against the backdrop of a nuclear war.

    Quote: Rurikovich
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    It looks like Kaptsov. Very similar.

    Nah, and not close laughing

    To be honest, I thought that the author - Andrei from Chelyabinsk. Presentation of material “without hysteria”

    Quote: Avior
    While this is more advertising, there is no evidence that such Chinese missiles at least once hit the target ship.

    Into a target ship? No. They had a well-publicized case when at the training ground there were two hits in the “contour” of an aircraft carrier. Moreover, it is unknown what happened before. Hit or drawn outline

    Quote: apro
    Brdsd pioneer take a look.

    And what, at least once “Pioneer” was tested as an anti-ship complex??
    1. +1
      25 August 2019 22: 17
      Quote: Old26
      For some reason, the sinking of an aircraft carrier is equated with nuclear war. But aircraft carriers take part in dozens(??) nuclear(??) conflicts(??), where the other party is not the USSR/Russia.
      -I’m embarrassed to ask for a link to dozens of nuclear conflicts

      Quote: Old26
      So the sinking of an aircraft carrier, although in the article it is rather theoretical in nature, is not a “sphero horse”. This is a task that is difficult, but not impossible. And events may not develop against the backdrop of a nuclear war.
      -if it is any owner of nuclear weapons, for example England or Israel, God bless them!!!!!!let them sink American aircraft carriers - I'm personally FOR...

      The problem is that it will be exclusively a war with us - a war where it may be necessary to sink AUGs
  52. +2
    25 August 2019 14: 48
    Both the article and the comments are complete trash. Why does no one, when discussing tanks, say that only landmines will be fired at them? Why, when discussing body armor, is it not discussed that they will only shoot from pistols? Who decided by default that non-core, obviously weak ammunition would be used against the target. A strike on an aircraft carrier in order to neutralize it? This means the war is already underway. This means that the most effective means will be used. What is most effective against an aircraft carrier? A nuclear explosion of 200 kilotons within a radius of 250-1 kilometers at a depth of about 1,5 meters. And that's it. How to deliver the warhead is a second matter. You can use anti-ship missiles with a torpedo.
    1. +1
      27 August 2019 18: 22
      Quote: garri-lin
      Both the article and the comments are complete trash. Why does no one, when discussing tanks, say that only landmines will be fired at them? Why, when discussing body armor, is it not discussed that they will only shoot from pistols? Who decided by default that non-core, obviously weak ammunition would be used against the target.

      Because otherwise the war will last another half hour. And then there will be a very long peace. Because the use of tactical nuclear weapons against aircraft is already "one minute to 12"And then it inevitably goes...
      The engine of the second stage burned out behind a hazy haze,
      A "bus" in a black abyss pierces a tight heights,
      The order of the false is deployed, large and silver,
      It's great that we all broke here today ...

      So the authors are trying to somehow balance on the edge of sliding into a situation that was played out in an old toy called DEFCON with a life-affirming motto Everybody dies. smile
      1. 0
        27 August 2019 18: 54
        Well, I don’t play with toys other than Stalker and Tanks, so I don’t understand what you mean. But the issue of striking an aircraft carrier with the aim of destroying it can be discussed. Do you really think that the fact of destroying the aircraft will not cause a reaction from NATO? That after such actions an unrestricted war will not break out? This is nonsense. Even if the cause of the strike was a regional conflict. Even if nuclear weapons are not used. The very fact of the strike will inflame the conflict on a global scale. And may the creator of the survivors protect the survivors then.
  53. 0
    25 August 2019 14: 59
    The discussion of how many torpedoes or missiles are needed to sink an aircraft carrier is intellectually close to children's questions like who is stronger, a tiger or a lion, or how long does it take to fly to the sky. The calculation of hits and damage results especially made me smile. What is this analysis based on? Quite possibly - on morning coffee and a sandwich with sausage.
  54. 0
    25 August 2019 15: 24
    It feels like the article was written by a victim of the Unified State Exam..
    no analysis...
    there is no analysis of the aircraft carrier’s security, its design features, strengths and weaknesses
    nothing at all!!
    there is no analysis of what needs to be done to poke through the protection and get to the delicate insides..
    there is no analysis of what type of weapon can cause critical damage...
    In short, the “topic of boobs” is not covered!

    ZY Avik can be sunk by a 1500mm torpedo with a 1500kg warhead with a range of 350 miles and a speed of 65 knots at a depth of 50 meters. This is nonsense in contrast to the entire nonsense of the article.
    1. 0
      4 September 2019 21: 08
      “Victims of the Unified State Exam” find it difficult to imagine that even one bottle of a Molotov cocktail, applied in the right place, can paralyze the combat effectiveness of this tempting monster until it is completely eliminated by more modern means.
  55. -1
    25 August 2019 15: 59
    Quote: Nyrobsky
    Quote: apro
    I don’t agree. Americans are able to spit on losses if it is very necessary. And they will justify beautifully. They have enough means and opportunities.

    Yeah. Only it was necessary to clarify that they did not care about the losses among the civilian population and the losses of the allies. As for "loved ones", they are very sensitive to the preservation of their skins.

    Why are these stamps being brought here? There is no need to underestimate the enemy; the Americans are skilled and very serious opponents. During World War II, the probability of being shot down during bombing reached 20%. However, the pilots went into battle. So, as correctly written above, the Americans are quite capable of maximum effort.
    Propaganda will explain why soldiers have to die.
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 22: 22
      Quote: certero
      During World War II, the probability of being shot down during bombing reached 20%. However, the pilots went into battle.
      -read "Catch-22" by Heler
      "The author joined the US Air Force in 1942 (at the age of 19). Two years later he was sent to Italy, where he flew 60 combat missions in a B-25 bomber." - and knew what he was writing about...
    2. 0
      27 August 2019 16: 44
      Let's not confuse the amers of WWII and those of today.

      Yes. In recent decades they have shown that they can fight. But only against countries with incomparably smaller combat and technical capabilities than theirs. The modern American army is VERY sensitive to losses.

      You can also compare the Bundeswehr and the Wehrmacht, based on the fact that the Germans serve there and once served there!
  56. 0
    25 August 2019 16: 39
    My friend, a lieutenant colonel by the way, has been retired for 2 months. He told me that an anti-tank missile from a T-72B had no problem hitting a moving target at a distance of 4 km. And it was surprising to me that the ATGM was controlled by an ordinary wire. HOW???? The 21st century is upon us. To which he answered me... Kairat. You are a smart uncle. I don’t argue. ..BUT.. A WIRED system is more resistant to the effects of electronic warfare (it is 98-99 percent identical).
    By the way, my friend is the special service RAV. That is, not a combat personnel. But on support. But I believe him. And again, from his words... Kairat. Of course, I’m a stupid infantryman. BUT... purely based on the fact that an autonomous unit (T-72 tank) can hit a target measuring 4x2500x2500 cm at 5000 km (exaggerated) either a warship, or an airplane, or a rocket, which is a priori several orders of magnitude smarter than the BIUS of a tank along with its crew. They won’t be able to hit a target measuring 70x000x30 cm from a distance of 000 km..... then they won’t hit us. tankers into battle at sea. We will show them Kuzka’s mother without Kuzka’s mother (pun intended)
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 10: 52
      The ATGM is controlled by a regular wire. HOW????...... liars, the tank KUV Kobra was wired, but it was only on the T-64B, very unreliable, the 72s have a KUV reflex, and the first Sheksna with an ATGM in a narrow laser beam, or rather in the cone of lidar oberescence
  57. -1
    25 August 2019 16: 44
    But don’t tryndi, the Titanic was also unsinkable, demoralization and panic were not taken into account, they are still warriors there, and there is no point in plugging holes with their ass, no one is attacking their house...
  58. 0
    25 August 2019 16: 58
    I am far from the sea (the steppes of Kazakhstan) and my friend retired as the head of the RAV mechanized brigade (framed).
    Well, for those who doubt the skills of KZ tankers, watch the tank biathlon. And if there are those who doubt the combat durability of the Kazakhs, I recommend reading..Volokolamsk Highway.. by Alexander Beck.
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 17: 27
      I apologize for any grammatical errors. I'm writing from my phone.
  59. -1
    25 August 2019 17: 04
    The torpedo "Kit" has a homing system not to stupidly hit the aircraft carrier's torpedo protection, but to ideally explode in the area of ​​the propellers and rudders. And then the aircraft carrier becomes a barge! Or, if you can't "get to" the propeller-rudder group, then the explosion will not be at the side with the torpedo protection, but under the keel. And 560 kg of "marine mixture" or TGA can break the spine, or rather the keel beam of the aircraft carrier, and then the giant "steamboat" is in complete "dark shambles"!
  60. +1
    25 August 2019 17: 56
    The clumsy and sloppy style of presentation, as well as gross grammatical errors, are extremely regrettable.
  61. 0
    25 August 2019 18: 17
    I didn’t find anything about the kinetic factor... What happens if the same “zircon” hits the side at Mach 6-8, even without detonating the warhead?.. There is an opinion that after such a splash, the personnel will be concussed in a fairly wide radius from the point of impact.
    1. 0
      27 August 2019 16: 55
      Yes, there is no shell shock. An aircraft carrier will be blown through there! By the time it reaches the aircraft carrier, even if all the fuel is used up (and this is not always the case), the residual mass of the Granit is about 3-3,5 tons. And at the same time, it has an armored warhead that can withstand hits from 30-mm anti-aircraft guns.

      Just imagine what will happen when such a fool flies on board an aircraft carrier at a speed of several Machs.

      Just for illustration:

      https://youtu.be/fDFeJDnR8Y8
  62. xax
    -1
    25 August 2019 18: 46
    Of course, in the modern world, no one can know in advance when and under what circumstances he will have to destroy the AUG. But with a greater degree of probability, today this fun threatens to become a reality for Iran or the DPRK. In connection with the mention of the latter, we can recall that the DPRK did not sign an agreement banning the placement of nuclear weapons on the bottom of the seas and oceans, as a result of which the good old mines are becoming relevant again. More precisely, bottom-based nuclear weapons, which can literally lie somewhere on the bottom (for example, in the form of a sea torpedo with a nuclear warhead ready to launch from the bottom) and wait for the huge carcass of the watercraft discussed in the article to appear in its affected area.
  63. +2
    25 August 2019 19: 03
    Author, have you ever thought that if real serious hostilities begin, these aircraft carriers will have nowhere to return? In such a global conflict, aircraft carriers are small shells; there will be no time for them when the continents themselves disappear.
  64. -1
    25 August 2019 19: 04
    The article does not consider the option of using a hypersonic missile with high kinetic energy at a speed of 7-12 M. Dagger, for example? Such a weapon might and does not need a warhead. Through and through he may be. and will not pierce (and this missile approaches the target vertically), but it can disrupt the completion of the task. And it doesn’t matter whether it catches air defense systems by surprise or not: it’s impossible to shoot it down. High-precision missile: fired and forgot about the aircraft carrier...
  65. -7
    25 August 2019 19: 18
    Nothing has changed on the site. Country of fools!!! wassat In Russia, of course, there are no problems to discuss, except how to sink an aircraft carrier if something happens..... how many bombs are needed..... lol
    1. +3
      25 August 2019 22: 27
      Quote: nycsson
      Nothing has changed on the site. Country of fools!!! Of course, in Russia there are no problems to discuss, except, if necessary, to sink an aircraft carrier.....how many bombs are needed.....
      -if you want to discuss problems, that’s for you "Echo of Moscow".There you can fall into hysterics without fear....
      Here is "Military Review", if anything, and issues are discussed military - which precisely require counting the number of bombs to sink the AUG
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 20: 35
        Even from a military point of view, the topic is absurd.......
      2. -2
        26 August 2019 20: 41
        An aircraft carrier does not float alone! lol Just in case! Therefore, if you have “Military Review”, then you need to select appropriate topics for discussion. And not for fools. For example, what to do with escort ships that are part of an aircraft carrier strike group in order to sink an aircraft carrier. Rough, of course, but...... First, sink the cruiser with the Aegis system, and then take on the aircraft carrier. And if we take into account the electronic component, all sorts of satellites, etc. etc., then your topic is completely crazy! Sincerely..... hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
  66. -4
    25 August 2019 20: 04
    This topic itself is absurd! Apparently this is why such topics continue to be discussed... The first sunk Aircraft Carrier - The end of civilization on earth! No one is going to fight on such a scale without the use of nuclear weapons. And after the use of nuclear weapons, even on an extremely limited scale, the consequences will be simply unpredictable. From an uprising of the population forgiving their authorities, to post-apocalyptic scenarios.

    PS Gentlemen! at the top, everything has long been thought out, discussed and agreed upon. You don’t need to think so big... Everything is much simpler.
    1. xax
      +2
      25 August 2019 22: 18
      Quote: GibSoN
      The first sunk Aircraft Carrier - The end of civilization on earth!

      What if, say, Iran sinks it? Did the doctor still tell you to go to the morgue?
  67. DPN
    +4
    25 August 2019 20: 23
    Why sink an aircraft carrier? It is necessary to sink the country to which it belongs, otherwise it will be too late for life to end.
  68. +1
    25 August 2019 20: 36
    Good article. Thanks to the author! A reasonable reminder that without a nuclear warhead there is no point in sinking an aircraft carrier.
  69. -1
    25 August 2019 21: 03
    ...during testing, aircraft carrier ships withstood up to 30 pounds per square inch...

    30 pounds per square inch is approximately 2,1 kg per square centimeter and 0,206 megapascals (206 kilopascals, respectively). From the point of view of fortification - well, so-so value, a little small. What will the textbook tell us, at least civil defense? Here's what:
    In the zone where the excess pressure in the shock wave front exceeds 1 kgf/cm2, extremely severe and fatal injuries to openly located personnel occur; in the zone with a pressure of 0,6...1 kgf/cm2 - severe injuries; at 0,4...0,5 .2 kgf/cm0,2 - moderate injuries and at 0,4...2 kgf/cm1,5 - mild injuries... When people are located in trenches and crevices, the radii of the affected areas are reduced by approximately 2 - XNUMX times.
    That is, if we consider that an aircraft carrier is a good trench, 2,1 kg/cm2 is weakened by half, we get 1,05 kg/cm2... The aircraft carrier will withstand, but what about "...where the excess pressure in the shock wave front exceeds 1 kgf/cm2, extremely severe and fatal injuries to exposed personnel occur..."?
    What about weapons and equipment?
    Tutorial again:
    “...separation of antennas, headlights and other outdoor equipment at a pressure of 30-50 kPa;
    failure of airplanes, helicopters, missiles 10-30 kPa;
    average damage to artillery pieces is 40-70 kPa;
    complete destruction of artillery pieces 0.2-1 MPa;
    complete destruction of tanks 1-2 MPa..."

    And we have 206 kilopascals... Well, maybe the tanks on an aircraft carrier won’t break in half. But they will be blown overboard laughing And why are they on board? with headlights, antennas and external equipment torn off, with guns completely destroyed and with personnel suffering extremely severe and fatal injuries And we just went through the numbers of the shock wave, without any EMR, penetrating radiation and light radiation
    1. -2
      25 August 2019 21: 15
      Quote: Earnest
      That is, if you consider that an aircraft carrier is a good trench

      And on the basis of what or what incomprehensible logical twists did you decide to equate an aircraft carrier to an open trench?
  70. 0
    25 August 2019 21: 10
    one piece of torpedo and no aircraft carrier bye bye
  71. +2
    25 August 2019 21: 14
    1) - modern torpedoes (though not even very modern) are undermined under the bottom. And there, despite the triple bottom, most likely even 1-2 hits will cause, if not fatal, then very difficult to repair damage.
    2) A hit on the flight deck - a hit from the same "granite" - damage that is unlikely to be treated at sea... eliminate a hit from a high-explosive cumulative warhead that will destroy several tens of meters of structure outside the plant? From the category of "non-science fiction"...
    3) Acoustic guidance on propellers? Repairs at sea are impossible, the course is lost... The ship is afloat but has no combat value at all...
    Yes, the aircraft carrier is a large target and therefore tenacious... But in general, there is no need to sink it...
    1. -1
      26 August 2019 12: 30
      The Bismarck and Prince Eugene also detected the Hood's torpedo attack by acoustics and evaded the torpedoes. And this is 1941!
      Torpedoes detected on approach will be immediately destroyed by MLRS.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 22: 01
        Does the AB have MLRS? I didn't know...
        Second. There are many fewer examples of successful evasion of torpedoes (even straight-throw ones) than hits... The AUG at full speed in the process of accepting the release of aircraft is so noisy that nothing can be heard... It was by taking advantage of this that even our “roaring cows” managed to break through into the order...
        So the chances here are always “fifty-fifty”...
  72. -1
    25 August 2019 21: 19
    Quote: Town Hall
    Quote: Earnest
    That is, if you consider that an aircraft carrier is a good trench

    And on the basis of what or what incomprehensible logical twists did you decide to equate an aircraft carrier to an open trench?

    I was just going by the “withstand 30 psi” parameter and the fact that an aircraft carrier on the high seas was never sealed against a shock wave. The dugout will be blown away in three strokes, believe me. Well, if you want to equate it to an underground command post of the Strategic Missile Forces with protection from 150 kg/cm2, count what’s wrong with that. But the aircraft carrier will obviously stop sailing from such “protection” wink
  73. +1
    25 August 2019 21: 46
    The Soviet Navy had, if my memory serves me right, 11 Project 949 SSGNs. These boats could theoretically sink 44 American aircraft carriers along with their escort. Each boat had 24 Granit missiles, 4 of which had a TK-55 nuclear warhead (TK-66s were not installed on any other carriers except those I mentioned in my article). The TK-55 had a yield of 550 kt and was installed on all "heavy" Soviet anti-ship missiles - Granit, Bazalt, Vulcan and the Air Force Kh-22 missile. The boat could send 6 AUGs to the bottom with four salvos of 4 missiles, the last one being nuclear. Even if some of the missiles are shot down, the nuclear one is the last one in the "pack" (that was the calculation). Although the target is certainly difficult, it can be shot down - a large one made of stainless steel and titanium (it will be clearly visible on the radar screen - RCS of about 5-10 meters), but it flies at an altitude of -25 meters at a speed of M-1,5 (1833 km / h), it is well armored - Vulcan-Phalanx will take it with sub-caliber BPS, Sea Sparrow will leave only scratches on the hull. But that is the calculation, that some of the missiles will be shot down (for slaughter, to overload the air defense of the AUG) But those that reach the aircraft carrier will pierce its armor belt (152 mm) and explode in the interior, and nuclear too - the aircraft carrier evaporates molecules, and the escort ships either sink or receive heavy damage (who is lucky to be further than 5 km from the aircraft carrier). Can today's Russian Navy do this?
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 22: 42
      A deep bow to the earth to Sergei Gorshkov, Soviet science and the Soviet planned economy for the creation of a powerful Navy capable of simultaneously waging an armed struggle with the most powerful US Navy in the world and the naval flotillas of NATO countries and at the same time winning a crushing victory in this war. Not Peter the Great is the father of the Russian fleet, but SERGEY GORSHKOV. The modern Russian fleet is somewhat reminiscent of the imperial one..... then there should be offensive words, but I don’t want to say them, just guys, remember Tsushima.
      1. 0
        25 August 2019 23: 45
        In general, it should be noted that Soviet science was at an unattainable height (where would the backward Americans be); they had to come up with such a sophisticated way of killing 10 American sailors. The first “leader” missile on the march is at an altitude of 000 meters with the active radar seeker turned on, and gives target designation to the “flock”. walking in a chain on the march for 7000 meters with the seeker turned off, the nuclear one is the last in the column, the probability of its loss is close to zero. The “Leader” searches for the target (its seeker will see the target at a distance of 100 to 150 km), detects it and transmits data to the “flock”; on approach, everything decreases to 300 meters. The transmission channel is protected from interference. When Project 25 goes on the attack, all the enemy can do is pray.
    2. +1
      26 August 2019 22: 56
      Quote: Sergey K
      The boat could launch 6 AUGs to the bottom in four salvoes of 4 missiles, the last nuclear.


      For this to happen, a large number of unlikely events must come together at once.

      A. The 949th should be closer than 200 km (the range of the Granit at low altitude) to the aircraft carrier.
      b. either the Tu-95RTs or the Ka-25RTs should magically be at the same distance from the aircraft carrier
      V. the Tu-95RTs or Ka-25RTs should have a radar constantly working, but the enemy is so stupid that his fighter patrols will not pay attention to them.
      The boat must stay in touch with the Tu-95RTs, so it must be either on the surface or under the periscope. Moreover, broadcast in the VHF or HF bands. The enemy, again, is so stupid that his reconnaissance planes do not notice these radio transmissions.
      d. The enemy does not even think of interfering with the Tu-95, either its radar or communications.
      e. Anti-submarine aircraft, both carrier-based and base, do not detect submarines, although their radars see breakers from a periscope at 20 km. And the cabin of the surfaced submarine is even further away.

      The fact that a nuclear missile is sixth does not give it any guarantee against destruction, because Before the 949s, the American Navy received modifications of the Ticonderoga cruiser, capable of firing at 12 air targets simultaneously, with a rate of fire of one missile per second. Even one cruiser will be able to deal with all six missiles, and there are two or three of them guarding the aircraft carrier. Another plus in the 80s there were old cruisers with Talos missiles with nuclear warheads, which could destroy an entire group of anti-ship missiles with one shot at a distance of 94 km.

      The body of the cruise missile is not armored, but is made of the same duralumin as that of an airplane, only even thinner. Any fragment from a "Standard" warhead, a shell, or a bullet from a "Vulcan" would easily make a hole. This hole inside the Granit would have been hit by a pressure of air at supersonic speed, which would have quickly torn the remaining parts of the skin to shreds, so that the anti-ship missile would eventually tumble and fall into the sea or even earlier would have fallen apart from overloads.

      If one reconnaissance missile is shot down, then time will pass until the second one rises up. During this time, the enemy, no matter what, will throw a whole bunch of dipoles into the air. So the new reconnaissance missile, instead of one fat target in a circle of small ones, will see dozens of fat and thin targets, of which its “artificial intelligence” (we are also talking about analog logical devices) must guess which is the main one and point all the other missiles at it. If he chooses the wrong target, then all four lower missiles will fly in the wrong direction.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 23: 29
        Alexander, it is clear that the Americans will not wait until the Russians roast them like sheep on a spit; the greatest danger was represented by Tomcats and Phoenixes. This is exactly what they were created for. But the rocket body is still made of stainless steel; duralumin at such speeds (M-2,5) will float in 5 minutes. And the missile, like Basalt, is well armored. Exactly from MZA
        1. 0
          27 August 2019 19: 23
          Quote: Sergey K
          duralumin at such speeds (M-2,5)


          As far as I remember, Phantom was able to do this trick (overclocking to 2,5 M). All fighters of most countries after the Phantom were close to two or even slightly more than two machs. And all duralumin.

          “Granit” does not fly at 2,5M all the time, but only in the second half of the trajectory, when it begins to descend gently and until the moment when it begins to slow down against the atmosphere.

          At high speed, it is dangerous to be hit by even the tiniest fragment, because At supersonic speeds, laminarity requirements are especially high. I read about this in the memoirs of a MiG-25R pilot. Flying over the Sinai Peninsula, he was able to break away at Mach 2,5 from two Sparrow missiles fired by an Israeli Phantom. This is exactly what he was remembering, he said, I was lucky that the Sparrows exploded too far away, but if I were closer, even a tiny fragment could reach me, I wouldn’t survive.
          1. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 29
            Mach 2,5 is 2650 km/h. The Phantom, even with a very strong desire, could not accelerate to such a speed. its limit is Mach 2,2, which is 2330 km/h, and it could reach this speed for no more than 2 minutes.
            1. 0
              29 August 2019 09: 44
              Quote: Sergey K
              The Phantom, even with a very strong desire, could not accelerate to such a speed


              In 1961, the Phantom set a world speed record of 2581 km/h.
          2. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 33
            And the MiG-25 - Mach 2,8 - 3000 km/h can fly - 30 minutes, Mach 3,2 - 3400 km/h - can fly - 5 minutes. These two planes, as they say in Odessa, are two big differences.
          3. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 48
            Now, offhand, although I had a formula somewhere: at a speed of Mach 2 at N -11000 meters, the skin temperature is 110 degrees, at Mach 3 - 300 degrees. Learn while you're still alive, boys.
          4. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 49
            For reference, the melting point of aluminum is -660 degrees, this is from memory.
          5. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 51
            Alexander, should I remind you what the MiG-25 is made of, or should I not?
          6. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 56
            And one more piece of advice - guys, what I write must be memorized. and not troll. otherwise several thousand people, site visitors, will laugh at you. and consider you imbeciles with delusions of grandeur.
      2. 0
        26 August 2019 23: 35
        Yes, I forgot, Granite had a digital processor, not an analog one. So the rocket was smart.
        1. 0
          26 August 2019 23: 50
          Quote: sergey k
          Yes, I forgot, Granite had a digital processor, not an analog one. So the rocket was smart.

          If you strain your memory, it turns out that Granit could dance the mazurka
          1. 0
            27 August 2019 00: 01
            Ober lieutenant, what is the reason for humor, or are you one of those people to whom you show your finger and open your mouth to your ears?
            1. -1
              27 August 2019 00: 09
              Come on... how can you laugh at such serious things from such an authoritative source... You forgot to mention Granit’s quantum computer and that in his free time from flying as part of the “flock” he spent time cross-stitching with a fancy pattern
      3. 0
        26 August 2019 23: 41
        Yes, also, if the enemy used interference, passive (dipoles) or active, the missile itself turned off the seeker, remembered where the target was, and walked blindly, the accuracy is really worse, but the aircraft carrier is more than 330 meters, it can barely be missed.
      4. 0
        26 August 2019 23: 49
        By the way, Alexander, regarding Talos, I once, about three years ago, described a hypothetical battle between Long Beach and Grozny (58th project), so according to my calculations, Grozny won this battle.
        1. 0
          27 August 2019 00: 10
          Quote: sergey k
          By the way, Alexander, regarding Talos, I once, about three years ago, described a hypothetical battle between Long Beach and Grozny (58th project), so according to my calculations, Grozny won this battle.

          Hypothetically won or is it no big deal?
          1. 0
            27 August 2019 00: 20
            Chief Lieutenant I give it a plus, you would make a gorgeous red-haired clown, haven’t you tried to make a living from this?
            1. 0
              27 August 2019 00: 23
              Don’t resort to dull trolling...I’m seriously interested in the chilling details of this battle and its natural outcome...where can I read this fruit of creative torment?
              1. 0
                27 August 2019 00: 40
                I have absolutely no sense of humor, and I don't really understand modern slang expressions. Well, "dull" is understandable, but as you wrote: "trolling" - what is "trolling". The "pattern of the outcome" was not obvious, by the way. And the "fruit of creative torment" was unfortunately arrested, and the entire issue as well, but there are reprints somewhere on the Internet.
                1. 0
                  27 August 2019 01: 10
                  Quote: Sergey K
                  I have absolutely no sense of humor

                  I don’t agree. The description of the wonderful properties of Granite refutes this. You are too strict with yourself. By the way, try replacing the word “flock” in the description of Granite with the word “herd” .... it will add color and drama to the story
                  Quote: Sergey K
                  And the “fruit of creative torment” was unfortunately arrested

                  FSB? ...that’s what I expected...They probably revealed the secrets of tactics to the adversary..
                  1. 0
                    27 August 2019 17: 56
                    Ober lieutenant. Have you tried writing an article yourself? Or as you say, "Trolling" is something every imbecile can do. There are 6-7 billion of you on this planet, with delusions of grandeur, oligophrenics in the imbecilic stage. Tamara and I go out as a couple. As psychiatrists say, these two Tamaras go out as a couple. I sympathize.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. 0
                        27 August 2019 19: 04
                        When a person doesn’t know that two multiplied by two is four, it’s stupid to enter into a discussion with him on the theory of probability, the administration - hey, tighten up your own equipment and don’t let riffraff onto the site. otherwise your site will not be much different from “classmates”. All the best.
        2. 0
          27 August 2019 19: 02
          Quote: Sergey K
          fight between Long Beach and Grozny (58th project)


          And "Long Beach" with or without "Harpoons"?
          1. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 08
            When were there Harpoons on Long Beach - AU.
          2. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 09
            As I understand it, you, a sailor, need to know the enemy, ah, ah, ah.
            1. +1
              27 August 2019 20: 36


              Should I circle it or not?
              1. 0
                27 August 2019 23: 09
                Please forgive me Alexander!!!! Why did I take these two ships - they are the same age and the battle should have taken place before the paint on the skin dried somewhere in 1960-1961. Then there were no Garpunovs, as you understand.
              2. 0
                27 August 2019 23: 17
                I described all the nuances there in great detail, although the fight is fair one on one without outside help, Long has no chance - death. Although there are many times more nuclear weapons on board, they are all useless in this duel.
              3. 0
                27 August 2019 23: 24
                Moreover, this is not a beating, but an almost equal duel. Talos has the ability to fire at surface targets, but with non-nuclear missiles at a range of up to 64 km.
                1. 0
                  29 August 2019 09: 46
                  Have you tried to simulate it in the game "Harpoon"?
          3. 0
            27 August 2019 19: 22
            Alexander . find this article. Read it, a lot will become clear.
    3. +1
      27 August 2019 18: 38
      Quote: Sergey K
      The Soviet Navy had, if my memory serves me right, 11 Project 949 SSGNs, these boats could theoretically sink 44 of Amer’s aircraft carriers along with their escort.

      In the realities of the early-mid 80s - no more than 5-6 AB. The Northern Fleet then calculated that to guarantee the sinking of one AB, the next one as part of the AUG, the estimated force should have included a pair of 949/949A, a pair of 670/670M and one or two mrp.
  74. 0
    25 August 2019 21: 58
    "Anti-torpedo buoys"? laughing
    In general, boules are called correctly.
  75. 0
    25 August 2019 22: 31
    Not even optimistic, but fabulous.
    If it comes to the need to sink an aircraft carrier, then there is only one option - nuclear.
    And no antinuclear defenses will help, because the distribution will not go to one or two armored vehicles/missiles, but until the ruler of the seas is completely “calmed.”
  76. -3
    25 August 2019 22: 34
    Quote: Arzt
    Radar R29B6 "Container" ... exceeds AKM capabilities by 1000 km

    At 4000 km - in terms of detecting surface targets with a length of 100 meters or more.
  77. 0
    25 August 2019 22: 49
    A 100kT warhead exploded at an altitude of 2-3 km will destroy the entire squadron along with the aircraft carrier without even looking.
  78. -1
    25 August 2019 23: 21
    The first electronic warfare systems will create the illusion of an attack on the surface and underwater, they (aircraft carriers) will close down to create chaos, the second will be the old ones (there are still a lot of them left, our ancestors made them for centuries to come, they still can’t sell the 1974 Kalashnikovs!!) missiles, maybe ballistic ones with some kind of surprise, they will simply knock over everything near the aircraft carrier and only then will a few new missiles fly!!!!
  79. 0
    25 August 2019 23: 23
    Maybe everything is much simpler Do you need to short-circuit two wires?))))
  80. +3
    25 August 2019 23: 23
    Quote: your1970
    I’m embarrassed to ask for a link to dozens of nuclear conflicts

    I'm sorry. Of course, in dozens of NON-NUCLEAR conflicts...

    Quote: your1970
    The problem is that it will be exclusively a war with us - a war where it may be necessary to sink AUGs

    I don’t think so, Sergey! Now there are rumors of what are called two possible (hypothetical) conflicts. With Iran and North Korea. And the main task in such a conflict will be the sinking (if possible) of American AUGs. So a war where a situation arises where it is necessary to sink the US AUG is not only with Russia.
    1. 0
      25 August 2019 23: 35
      Quote: Old26
      So a war where there will be a situation where it is necessary to sink the US AUG - not only with Russia

      - the US will be forced to respond to the sinking of the AUG with a nuclear strike. Moreover, in the event of a war with Iran/Korea, I think they will start (if they start!!!) with a nuclear attack.
      The risk of a response is too great for them - they will try to minimize
  81. 0
    25 August 2019 23: 32
    Let's separate the concepts: a hypothetical fight against an aircraft carrier and a real fight against an AUG. After all, aircraft carriers do not sail the seas alone. They have security ships, escorts. Possessing, by the way, cruise missiles with a much greater range than the range of a carrier-based air wing. This is approximately 10-12 ships. There is no need to multiply them by the number of anti-ship missiles required to destroy the entire AUG. The number will be too large. The question is not the number of salvos, but the tactics of combating the AUG. If you do not use nuclear weapons (although, why not), you need to attack the guard ships. Not all at once, but the next 1-2. The AUG combat order will already be violated. And she most likely will not go further. After all, we still need to rebuild, cope with panic and redistribute air defense sectors. At sea, all this is not done quickly. But the enemy AUG will have enough time to send a couple more guard ships to the bottom. Return to the airfield, refuel the flight of strategists, load the anti-ship missile into the "cigar", and that's it - a new combat mission. Consider further that the AUG is no longer there, although the aircraft carrier itself may not be subject to any attacks at all. The AUG is ineffective as a means of attack near our borders. But near the NATO coast, near narrow straits, standing in positional defense, he gains weight. Can control the situation. There it will be more difficult to destroy or move it. This is already the task of the General Staff specialists
  82. SIT
    +1
    25 August 2019 23: 33
    Rejection of the INF Treaty and failure to sign SALT III will lead to an uncontrolled arms race. This means placing missiles with special warheads on space platforms is a matter of time. Technically, this could have been done back in the 3s. If we take the distance to the AUG as an analogue of the ISS, it is 70 km at perigee and 413 km at apogee. Start with an initial speed of 418 km/sec. Flight time 11.2-40 seconds. Maybe then we can convert aircraft carriers into cruise ships to live a last human life?
  83. +1
    26 August 2019 00: 30
    Quote: Sergey K
    The King, or rather the Queen, was naked in that war.

    Sergey, remember what the operators of the Sheffield and other ships were wearing when they were evacuated from the damaged and doomed NKs... They were ANTI-NUCLEAR PROTECTION suits. But the Argentines obviously did not have nuclear weapons! I remember the intelligence bulletin on this matter very well...
    So, “not everything round is blue, there is also green!” (c)
    1. +1
      26 August 2019 01: 12
      That is, you want to convince me that at the bottom of the South Atlantic there are two nuclear warheads that were not declared by the British. Violation of maritime law, and then the fact of transshipment of weapons onto transport was recorded. I'll look for the name of this transport (well, I don't remember) and let you know.
      1. 0
        26 August 2019 17: 43
        Yes, by the way, somewhere I have a video of the crew of the Sea Dart air defense system during exercises about five years before the Falklands, specifically on the Sheffield, they are all dressed in white suits, these are most likely standard fire-fighting suits, they work in them all the time, nothing to do with They do not have nuclear weapons. Standard working uniform of the British Navy.
    2. +4
      26 August 2019 08: 56
      These are fireproof burn hoods and mittens - a standard element of equipment for combat ships in the West; they are worn by everyone who is not on the open deck as scheduled.
      It wouldn't hurt us to borrow, by the way.
      1. -1
        29 August 2019 09: 34
        an aircraft carrier is a defenseless, vulnerable target and cannot be covered with personnel clothing
    3. +1
      27 August 2019 18: 48
      Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
      Sergey, remember what the operators of Sheffield and other ships were wearing when evacuating them from damaged and doomed NK... These were ANTI-NUCLEAR PROTECTION suits. But the Argentines obviously did not have nuclear weapons! I remember very well the intelligence bulletin on this matter...

      There, the reason could not be in the hypothetical nuclear weapons, but in the fact that the personnel needed at least some means of protection from the black acrid smoke emitted by the burning “non-flammable plastic” of the interior decoration. EMNIP, according to the recollections of members of the Sheffield crew, the bulkheads in the CIC were not visible due to the smoke, and emergency shipments from other ships turned out to be useless, since even the native crew found it difficult to navigate in the smoke and darkness.
  84. +1
    26 August 2019 01: 02
    Quote: Far In
    How many missiles and torpedoes are needed to sink an aircraft carrier?
    Weird question. Not at all. History has shown that one future Senator John McCain is enough for this. True, on the first attempt to sink the aircraft carrier, he was unable to - see, there was not enough practical experience - well, after all, they did not provide him with the second attempt.


    Well, how much more can you chew on... this crap about sinking and the number of missiles on an aircraft carrier... People.... Understand.... THIS is a Floating Airfield!!! Why??? Sink it! If it can't perform its tasks, even with one or two hits....!!!! Fire, list on board... Not a single "bird will take off or land"!!! fool Just look at what is happening to the Civilians, because of ordinary birds or psychos with copters... hi
  85. 0
    26 August 2019 01: 13
    interesting guesses...
  86. -1
    26 August 2019 01: 34
    Again, reasoning from the field of who is stronger, a whale or an elephant. A flight of dive bombers, look at the data of the Second World War, puts any ship out of action, and aircraft carriers are no exception, in 8-12 minutes. As soon as an anti-ship missile appears on the shore, the Americans immediately take their AUG out of harm’s way further into the ocean. If the boat breaks through the order, the aircraft carrier is finished. One full salvo, six torpedoes, and that’s it. The ship will fight for buoyancy, and not fight.
  87. The comment was deleted.
  88. +1
    26 August 2019 03: 03
    Author, you should cut the sturgeon at least twice. For example, about the same Forrestal - the incident on July 29, 1967 at about 10:50, then, of course, they extinguished it and so on, and they extinguished it at ... at 04:00 the next morning. There is no point in arguing here - there was a big fire, etc., but they put it out - well done, but... in the end, it returned to service only on April 8, 1968 (date of completion of repairs) - i.e. After that incident, he was out of action for almost a year. What are you writing about? And this was without penetrating influence, but everything exploded on the surface, on his most durable surface, and what exploded there was what, in theory, should be seeds for him. And the same granite is designed for penetration - one hit, even an “unsuccessful” one (not a hangar, not an ammunition depot, not fuel) is guaranteed to put this colossus out of action for at least several years, or maybe even write it off. Well, yes, they’ve already written about a propeller group with a torpedo - if you don’t know how take-off and landing take place, then in short, landing takes place at full speed, and even taking into account the wind rose, and not at anchorage, well, in the verts in this case it doesn't matter. Well, about 5-10 minutes - they can do a lot of things, apparently they can theoretically, but in the 80s (it seems) they couldn’t do anything at all, only after ours passed over them they were able to launch what seems to be a defenseless growler. Well, here, of course, you can make a reference to peacetime, you relaxed, but only ours got into such a rush if they lost sight of the submarine even before approaching the border (from the stories of a familiar naval aviation navigator), although they eventually found it, and then there was an escort, etc. . and suddenly a passage above the deck. So you cut down the sturgeon. Well, or at least check the wiki (at least it’s still the same source, but at least it’s something). Or don’t make such sudden conclusions.
    PS Attention to you in writing articles, in principle it is written in an accessible way, facts ... facts need to be checked, especially about something known
    ZYY Well, one more fact in conclusion - in today’s modern times, US aircraft spend most of their lives in repairs, half a year in flight and a couple of years in the dock. So think for yourself about their number and their power, as well as the threat
  89. +1
    26 August 2019 04: 16
    In war as in war, the master still decides a lot. For example, the enemy has a reserve, and a wise naval commander managed to position it so that it will meet the AUG, which is returning after completing a combat mission, the worst option for the AUG, not entirely successful, pretty battered and with almost spent ammunition. The outcome of such a meeting for it can be very disastrous.
    1. 0
      26 August 2019 04: 17
      Mister chance.
  90. 0
    26 August 2019 07: 55
    “Aviation fuel reserves are stored in anti-torpedo buoys” - I was pleased, that’s right, “in buoys, anti-torpedo buoys.”
    And somewhere in Kalashnikov, I read something more interesting
  91. BAI
    +1
    26 August 2019 08: 51
    the thickness of its outer skin reaches 1-1,5 centimeters, and the internal longitudinal bulkheads - up to 2-2,5 centimeters of high-quality high-strength steel.

    For a ship of this size, it's paper. For the Ferdinands they used ship armor - and even then it was 200 mm (20 cm).
    And regarding nuclear weapons, in addition to the shock wave and penetrating radiation, there is also EMP. What will happen to electronics, and what will ships and planes be capable of without electronics?
  92. +2
    26 August 2019 09: 17
    The author has an interesting calculation system. If it is covered with Kevlar, then the blast wave will simply dissipate? The same with fuel. Just for information. When a tank with 700 cubic meters of gasoline (AI-95/92) explodes, the radius of the continuous damage zone is 150-200 meters. And what if there are several thousand tons of aviation fuel? And what about the explosions of the magazines of English battle cruisers in Jutland and the explosion of the Hood?
  93. 0
    26 August 2019 10: 46
    how much moisture is in the article :) the sofa authors work with their myths. in reality, 1 hit with granite, granites also come with different warheads. but the author of the sofa and kissing the butt of SSHOPY does not know about this....
  94. +1
    26 August 2019 10: 55
    Quote: Nyrobsky
    then they are very sensitive to saving their skins

    do not exaggerate this factor. Vietnam showed that the United States is capable of forcing its population to join the army and resist. Not as effectively as Germany or the USSR did, but they still succeeded.
    1. 0
      27 August 2019 18: 10
      And in World War II, the Yankees fought quite staunchly both on the offensive and in defense, both in the Pacific theater of war and in the European one. But that was almost 80 years ago. Since then, their approach to combat losses in general, and the approach of each individual soldier to combat losses in particular, has changed greatly.

      So, if you compare, for example, the Wehrmacht and the Bundeswehr, as they say in Odessa, there will be two big differences. But the Germans served/are serving both here and there...
    2. 0
      27 August 2019 22: 36
      Quote: yehat
      Vietnam showed that the United States is capable of forcing its population to join the army and resist. Not as effectively as Germany or the USSR did, but they still succeeded.
      -that was a very long time ago. The country has changed a lot.... I doubt that in the current situation they are not capable of coping with migrants inside the USA SUDDENLY they will get together and be able to force people into the army. I can’t believe it, to be honest..
  95. +1
    26 August 2019 11: 00
    Quote: Aerodrome
    the article is pure theory

    This is not even a pure theory, but an unfinished hypothesis.
    The author does not take into account the secondary effects of hits or the cumulative effect of being hit by missiles, especially ones as powerful as granite. Let me remind you that this missile, even without exploding, can cause very heavy damage.
    Also, do not forget what losses the ship’s infrastructure and crew suffer even after 4-5 hits.
    I think such a number already makes the use of an aircraft carrier pointless.
    The intensity of flights decreases at least once every 8-10, it has to be guarded very tightly so as not to drown from the next hit, the group of carrier-based aircraft will probably already suffer serious losses
    Yes, the aircraft carrier may not lose the ability to launch and receive aircraft, but what remains (or does not remain) will be so weak that it can be ignored.
  96. +1
    26 August 2019 11: 20
    Usually the goal is not to sink an aircraft carrier. It is enough to disable it for a time sufficient to carry out your own operation. Let me quote from Shirokorad’s book “Fiery Sword of the Russian Navy” about testing the old 3-ton subsonic anti-ship missile system KSShch:
    “During the firing, the Project 7 destroyer “Boikiy” was used as a target. It was the first target ship that retained all the superstructures, artillery installations, torpedo tubes, etc.... The missile seemed to be catching up with the target, so it flew up to targets from the stern. The missile hit the target at the junction of the deck and the side at the base of the stern flag post. The result was a ricochet, and the missile went along the center plane of the ship above the deck, sweeping away everything in its path. At first these were the stern gun turrets, then the superstructures with the them with a rangefinder post, then a stern torpedo tube, etc. Everything was swept overboard, right up to the forecastle. Then the missile entered along the forecastle, cutting it lengthwise... and the missile got stuck in the area of ​​the bow 130-mm gun. At the same time, the dockmast fell on one side, and the bridge with the control tower and another main caliber gun fell on the other...
    No one would have believed that this could be done to a ship with one rocket, and even a rocket in an inert state... The ship was left without a deck, without everything that was on this deck. The ship did not receive any underwater holes and remained afloat, but... as a watercraft it was nothing"
    It is clear that a destroyer is not an aircraft carrier, but the Granit is three times greater in mass and speed than the KSShch.
  97. 0
    26 August 2019 11: 21
    I propose to make icebergs and regularly send them to drift to the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, cheap and cheerful, and we have a lot of this stuff, you can't ask for a bribe from an iceberg, and for the people who will release them on a long voyage, establish the Order of Papanin. Preferably two degrees. The first degree for real damage to a sworn ally
  98. 0
    26 August 2019 11: 32
    Quote: Den717
    I think that the radioactive dust released into the wild will ultimately lead to a global mutation of all living things that do not die in the first months of the conflict.

    I’m not an expert at all, but what did the radioactive dust from the Chernobyl accident lead to? As far as I know, there has not been a wild surge in mutations of all living things in the exclusion zone. So, perhaps a slight increase in the overall level. After all, the Kunstkamera was created by Peter, when there was no talk of atomic energy.
  99. +1
    26 August 2019 12: 31
    However, the planes that are parked in the hangar are not refueled and do not carry any weapons (the experience of the Pacific War forced us to learn the lesson that loaded and refueled aircraft in the hangar is a very bad idea) with the exception of only some ammunition, which does not detonate for a long time from fire .

    With a high intensity of flights, refueling and equipment of aircraft can be carried out in the hangar - but these actions require permission in the form of an order from the ship’s commander.
  100. 0
    26 August 2019 13: 02
    Quote: user
    Although automation, electronic warfare, and the concept of network-centric warfare will greatly change the picture of a sea clash.

    This is precisely the Achilles heel of all modern weapons. Strip off all the antennas from an aircraft carrier, not with land mines, with fragmentation shells - and the aircraft carrier is dead. He will not determine his place, nor will the plane accept him.
    The destruction of communications, especially information ones (although hydraulic and pneumatic ones are also of great importance), will lead to paralysis of functioning. The blast doors were closed, but it was impossible to open them.