US Air Force Special Operations Aviation

57
During the war in Southeast Asia, the leadership of the US Department of Defense came to understand that in order to support units performing special missions behind enemy lines, modified aircraft are needed that differ from those used in line units. aviation units designed to support the operations of special forces were organizationally part of the Tactical Aviation Command. On February 10, 1983, the 23rd Aviation Command was formed to control special-purpose aviation, the headquarters of which was deployed at Scott Airbase in Illinois. On May 22, 1990, the United States Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC) was formed. AFSOC - is the highest command and administrative body of special forces, carrying out operational planning and control of the combat use of special forces and units in the Air Force. Its main governing bodies and subordinate units of special forces are stationed on the territory of the Girlbert Field military base in Florida.

US Air Force Special Operations Aviation

Psychological warplane EC-130J Commando Solo III




Tasks assigned to special aviation


In the 1980-ies, the following responsibilities were assigned to the 23-e command: delivery and evacuation of special forces operating on enemy territory, illegal cargo delivery, aviation security of ballistic missiles, meteorological reconnaissance, parachute training for fighters. At present, the aircraft of the special operations forces have unique capabilities to provide sabotage and intelligence operations, special intelligence, psychological, search and rescue and other operations. In addition to aviation formations, it includes special tactical squadrons, the personnel of which are prepared for direct participation in search and rescue operations, as well as for solving combat control tasks, advanced aviation guidance, training of landing areas, and meteorological support.

The structure, size and location of special aviation


According to American data, the current number of personnel of the Air Force MTR exceeds 15 thousand troops, of which 3 thousand are in reserve components. In the arsenal in the 2017 year there were 136 special-purpose aircraft and convertiplanes, including: 31 strike AC-130 and 105 multipurpose: 49 CV-22 and 56 MS-130. MTR aviation wings are based both on the continental United States and at advanced air bases (UK and Japan). They are promptly subordinate to the Joint Command of the Special Operations Forces, whose headquarters is located at McDill Air Force Base, Florida.


Google Earth satellite image: U.S. Air Force special operations planes at the Earlbird Field airbase

As part of the 1st air wing assigned to the airbase Girlbert Field, there are 9 squadrons equipped with AC-130U, MS-130H, U-28A aircraft, CV-22 convertiplanes and armed drones MQ-9.

At the Cannon air base in New Mexico, the 27 special operations aviation wing is deployed, consisting of 7 squadrons armed with: MC-130J, AC-130W, HC-130J, U-28A, CV-22B, MQ-9. The following tasks are assigned to the personnel of the 1 and 27 acres: providing direct air support to special forces units, delivering reconnaissance and sabotage units to the enemy rear, organizing material and technical support and evacuating special units after completing tasks, conducting reconnaissance, search and rescue crews of airplanes and helicopters in distress behind enemy lines, as well as other personnel in emergency situations.

The 24 e-wing of special operations includes eight tactical squadrons, the main tasks of which are: control of combat operations of aircraft during the application of air strikes, interaction of MTR aviation and ground forces, coordination of the evacuation of special forces from the combat area, navigation support using temporary beacons, selection and preparation of landing areas, meteorological support. Part of the personnel of special tactical squadrons prepared for use in search and rescue operations.

The area of ​​responsibility of the 352 Air Special Operations Wing deployed at the Mildenhall British airbase includes Europe, Africa and the Middle East. Two squadrons fly on the MC-130J and CV-22B, one more is tactical - that is, it is equipped with military personnel with special training.

The 353 I Special Operations Aviation Group consists of three aviation squadrons, a maintenance squadron, and a special technical squadron. It is intended for operations in the Asia-Pacific region with headquarters at the Japanese air base Kaden. Until recently, the group was armed with MC-130H / P aircraft, and is now in the process of re-equipping.

The 492th Special Operations Aviation Wing, stationed in Goerlbert Field, is in many ways a unique unit dedicated to operations in Third World countries and in the territories of the former Soviet republics. This aviation unit is the only one in the US Air Force where the S-6Т (DC-47), Soviet-made An-3, twin-engine C-26 (Spanish C-41), CN-212 are operated as part of the 235 special operating squadron and medium military transport C-130Е, as well as helicopters: UH-1Н / N and Russian Mi-8 / 17.


Aviation Technology of the 6 Special Operations Squadron


Three more special operations squadrons are armed with the "gangships" AC-130Н / U / W and airplanes, supporting the actions of the special forces MS-130Н / J. The 492 Air Force is also involved in the training of military personnel trained at the United States Air Force Special Operations Training Center, located in Earlbird Field. Considerable attention in the preparation of the personnel of the Air Force MTR is given to actions at night in difficult weather conditions at low and extremely low altitudes. Of particular importance when performing special operations is given to the achievement of surprise and stealth actions.

The AFSOC’s operational reserve and training center is the 919 e-wing, deployed in the vicinity of the Eglin air base, at the Herzog-Field airfield (Auxiliary field No. 3). Pilots of two squadrons of the 919 acre fly on the C-145A, U-28A and C-146A. Another squadron is equipped with an MQ-9 UAV.

The 193 wing of the special operations of the National Guard Air Force, deployed at the Harrisburg Air Base in Pennsylvania, is designed to solve the problems of information support for military operations. Armed with two squadrons of this wing, psychological warfare aircraft EC-130J Commando Solo III and passenger C-32В (Boeing 757) with equipment for refueling in the air. Also, as part of the Air Force MTR, there are separate divisions of material, technical, medical and meteorological and navigation-related support.

Special aircraft based on the military transport C-130 Hercules


The Air Force COO is armed with specially modified aircraft, helicopters, tiltrotoplanes and UAVs. Their common design differences from standard samples are: the use of more powerful engines, equipping with visibility reduction systems, an increased fuel supply and the presence of a fuel refueling system in the air.

The most famous AFSOC aircraft, of course, are the "gunships" built on the basis of the C-130 Hercules four-engine turboprop aircraft. Currently, the US operates AC-130U Spooky (17 units), AC-130W Stinger II (14 units) and AC-130J Ghostrider (it is planned to purchase 32 aircraft). The last AC-130H was withdrawn from service and sent to the Davis Monten storage base in 2015.


AC-130J Ghostrider


The combat biography of the gunboats, created on the basis of various modifications of the Hercules military transport, is very saturated. The first modifications of the AC-130 were used during the Vietnam War. The Ganships then participated in US military operations around the world. In the 1983 year, they were noted during the American invasion of Grenada. From 1983 to 1990, the AC-130H, secretly based in Honduras, attacked partisan camps in El Salvador at night. In 1989, during Operation Just Cause, the headquarters of the Panama Defense Forces were destroyed by the fire of 105 mm aircraft guns. Ganships were actively used during two campaigns against Iraq. In January 1991, the AC-130Н operating during daylight hours was struck by the Strela-2M MANPADS, all 14 crew members on board were killed. This was the first and last loss of the “flying gunboat” since the war in Southeast Asia. Subsequently, the AC-130 of various modifications were actively used in the territory of the former Yugoslavia, in Somalia and Afghanistan. As of July 2010, eight AC-130H and 17 AC-130U were in military service. By September 2013, the 14 MC-130W Dragon Spear aircraft were urgently converted to the AC-130W Stinger II. These aircraft were intended to replace the aging AC-130H in Afghanistan. The decommissioning process for AC-130U began in the year 2019.

In addition to cannon weapons, special forces support aircraft converted into ganships were given the opportunity to use laser-guided aviation munitions. The avionics included additional infrared and electron-optical sensors, and the possibility of suspension under the wing in 250-pound bombs. The main weapons of the AC-130U Spooky II are the five-barrel 25-mm automatic gun, the 40-mm automatic with cassette loading L / 60 Bofors and the 105-mm howitzer M102. More modern AC-130W Stinger IIs are armed with the 30-mm gun GAU-23 / A, and the AC-130J Ghostrider 30-mm automatic gun and 105-mm howitzer. In the fuselage of the new “ganships”, tube launchers for guided munitions AGM-176 Griffin and GBU-44 / B Viper Strike are installed. AGM-114 Hellfire ATGMs, GBU-39 and GBU-53 / B guided bombs can be suspended under the wing.

To mitigate the vulnerability of a large and slow aircraft from air defense systems, a counteraction complex was installed. It includes a radar receiver AN / ALR-69, missile warning equipment AN / AAR-44, electronic jamming stations AN / ALQ-172 and AN / ALQ-196, a system for shooting thermal and radar traps. Great expectations are placed on the laser equipment AN / AAQ-24 Nemesis, which should suppress the infrared-seeker attacking the missile aircraft. All equipment of the defense complex is controlled by a single computer system operating in automatic or semi-automatic mode. Given the fact that the "ganships" are designed mainly for work in the dark, the use of modern means of self-defense should guarantee their invulnerability.

In the 21 century, American Ganships were noted in Afghanistan (from 2001 to 2010 the operation “Enduring Freedom”), in Iraq (from 2003 to 2011 the year - Operation “Freedom of Iraq”). In 2007, US Special Operations Forces also used the AC-130 to attack Islamic militants in Somalia. In March 2011, the Air Force deployed two AC-130U gunboats to participate in Operation Dawn of the Odyssey against Libya. In November 2015 of the year in Syria, the Ganship and the A-10С Thunderbolt II attack aircraft unit during Operation Tidal Wave II destroyed more than 100 oil tankers and armed pickups of radical Islamic militants. On the night of 7 on 8 on February 2018, AC-130, interacting with F-15E fighter-bombers, MQ-9 UAVs and AN-64 fire support helicopters, attacked Syrian government forces trying to take control of the gas refinery and the X gas refinery , in the province of Deir ez-Zor. According to a number of sources, Russian citizens also suffered during the airstrike.

The MC-130H Combat Talon II / MC-130J Commando II / MC-130P Combat Shadow planes are much less known, but no less important compared to the "ganships" for the American special forces. Like the AC-130, a family of aircraft designed to support the operations of special forces was created on the basis of Hercules. The main objectives of the multi-purpose MS-130 are covert penetration into enemy territory. This machine is designed to supply MTR units, search and evacuation of reconnaissance and sabotage groups behind enemy lines, and to refuel helicopters and aircraft, including over its territory.



The oldest in the family of special transport and tankers are four MC-130Р Combat Shadow, adopted more than 40 years ago. These aircraft are designed to search for crews of downed aircraft, to be used as an air command post during search and rescue operations and to refuel rescue helicopters in the air. The last of the 24 MS-130E Combat Talon I built during the Vietnam War was decommissioned in 2015 year.


MC-130H Combat Talon II


Designed to replace these machines, the MC-130Н Combat Talon II was adopted in the 1991 year. Among the features of the MC-130H are the possibility of non-stop evacuation of people and property using the Fulton system, landing on poorly prepared soil sites, landing of cargoes using the JPADS precision drop system and the use of aerial bombs - GBU-43 / B MOAB (Massive Ordnance Air Blast - heavy explosive ordnance) weighing 9,5 t. The MOAB bomb is equipped with the KMU-593 / B guidance system, which includes inertial and satellite navigation systems.


Model of the bomb GBU-43 / B with a system of lattice steering stabilizers


MS-130Н, unlike the transport C-130Н, is equipped with a system for refueling in the air, explosion-proof fuel tanks, a landing system from low-altitude at high flight speeds and more advanced electronic equipment. AN / APQ-170 radar and the AN / AAQ-15 infrared station provide flight in the mode of following the terrain and flying around obstacles. Radar can also work in high-resolution terrain mapping modes and conduct weather reconnaissance. The mass of an empty aircraft compared to the C-130Н increased by approximately 4000 kg and is about 40,4 t (maximum take-off 69 750 kg). Due to the installation of the nose radome radar, the length compared to the C-130Н carrier increased by 0,9 m. The MS-130Н can transport 52 fully equipped paratroopers.

Currently, the MS-130H is already considered obsolete, mainly involved in secondary tasks and routine transportation. In the next 10 years, the MC-130Н should be replaced by the MC-130J. However, due to the fact that the creation of the MC-130J was delayed, and the aircraft itself was very expensive, the command of the MTR Air Force decided to replace the decommissioned MC-130Е / R with the modification MC-130W Combat Spear. The first MC-130W was handed over to AFSOC in the 2006 year. In the 2010 year, all ordered 14 machines reached operational readiness. The aircraft were built on the basis of the C-130N of the 1987-1991 issue, which were purchased from the Reserve Command of the US Air Force and the National Guard Air Force. This allowed us to save about $ 8 million when buying each car. MS-130W received a standard set of special purposes: satellite communications using packet data, satellite and inertial navigation systems, meteorological and navigation radar AN / APN-241, electronic warfare systems and devices for shooting thermal traps and dipole reflectors, equipment that allows receiving and transmitting aviation fuel in flight. At the same time, the MS-130W is deprived of the ability to fly at extremely low altitude in conditions of poor visibility and at night, which limits the scope of this machine.

The newly launched company to combat "international terrorism" demanded an urgent replacement of the very worn-out "ganships" AC-130Н. In this regard, in May 2009, AFSOC launched a program to turn the MC-130W aircraft into the “air gunboats”.


MC-130W Dragon Spear


The modification, armed with the 30-mm gun GAU-23 / A, guided munitions GBU-44 / B Viper Strike or AGM-176 Griffin, as well as ATGM AGM-114 Hellfire, was designated MC-130W Dragon Spear. Also, additional search and reconnaissance and sighting equipment was installed on the aircraft.


30-mm gun GAU-23 / A


The first MC-130W Dragon Spear arrived in Afghanistan at the end of the 2010 year, and was very successful. Based on the results of combat use, all MC-130W decided to convert into an armed version, renaming the MC-130W Dragon Spear AC-130W Stinger II. The success of the MC-130W Dragon Spear was a decisive argument for the implementation of the new generation AC-130J Ghostrider ganship program.

In the mid-1990's, the command of the Air Force MTR began to express concern that the existing MS-130 were highly vulnerable to modern air defense systems, including MANPADS. Despite these concerns, the US Air Force decided to continue the modernization of special-purpose vehicles based on the Hercules turboprop. At the same time, a bet was made on low-altitude night flights with enveloping the terrain, and equipping aircraft with the most advanced anti-aircraft defense systems. In a report from the US Department of Defense for the 2006 year, based on an analysis of the use of MTR aviation, a concern was noted stating that the US Department of Defense "should expand the capabilities to support, deploy and evacuate special operations forces in restricted areas at strategic distances." Despite these concerns, the U.S. Air Force decided to continue modernizing the current forces. The Air Force leadership decided to build 37 new MC-130J to replace its MC-130E and MC-130P, built more than 40 years ago.


MC-130J Commando II


The MC-130J Commando II aircraft was created on the basis of the KS-130J flying tanker operated by the U.S. KMP. The KS-130J multi-purpose tanker aircraft, also capable of carrying weapons, was in turn designed on the basis of the new C-130J military transport aircraft with an extended fuselage and more economical Rolls-Royce AE 2100 D3 engines with 4591 power with six-bladed propellers with increased thrust. Compared to the MC-130H, the new MC-130J, thanks to its larger fuel tanks and lower specific fuel consumption, increased flight range from 4300 km to 5500 km.


MC-130J Cab


In addition to the cockpit with modern avionics and the equipment for receiving and transmitting fuel borrowed from KS-130J, the new special forces aircraft received a reinforced wing, more suitable for flying at low altitude in conditions of increased turbulence. MC-130J is also equipped with advanced material handling equipment. The aircraft received communication, navigation and self-defense equipment, as on the new AC-130J “ganship”. The difference from AC-130J and KS-130J is the presence on board a system that allows, in conditions of poor visibility, to fly with enveloping terrain and a set of equipment that allows you to operate from unprepared sites. Given the fact that the MC-130J can operate at low altitude above enemy territory, the crew’s cabin and the most vulnerable units are covered with armor, and the protected tanks are filled with neutral gas. In addition to the elongated fuselage and turboprop engines with six-bladed propellers, visually the MC-130J can be distinguished from other modifications of the MC-130 by the small spherical "beard" of the AN / AAQ-15 optical-electronic survey system in the nose of the aircraft.



The first MC-130J, which entered the 522-th squadron of special operations from the 27-th air wing, reached operational readiness in September 2011. In total, AFSOC ordered the 37 MC-130J, which has already begun to replace other versions of the MS-130 at advanced bases in Japan and the UK.



Due to the fact that MC-130 aircraft often make low-altitude flights and land on unequipped runways, their losses are higher than that of other MTR aircraft built on the basis of C-130. Only the 21 century saw the loss of 5 aircraft. In Afghanistan, in the 2002 year, two MC-130P and MS-130Н aircraft were destroyed. Moreover, according to information released in the 2018 year, the MS-130N, officially classified as crashed as a result of a flight accident, was actually blown up by militants at a field airfield in the vicinity of Gardez. At the same time, two crew members and the passenger of the aircraft died. In August 2004, the MS-130Н crashed, flying at night in difficult meteorological conditions. 9 people were buried under its debris. In December 2004, the US Air Force command in Iraq ordered the destruction of the MC-130N damaged near Mosul. This was done to prevent the compromise of classified avionics. At the end of March 2005, the MC-130Н crashed into a mountain during a night flight at 80 km southeast of Tirana. Fourteen people on the plane died.

Another aircraft operating in the interests of the MTR is the search and rescue HC-130J Combat King II. This machine replaced the obsolete HC-130P / N Combat King in search and rescue squadrons. The HC-130J is capable of simultaneously refueling two other aircraft in the air and can refuel in flight with tankers equipped with booms such as KC-135, KC-10 and KC-46.



On board the HC-130J, equipment has been installed that allows it to be used as a command post during the search and rescue operation, as well as to locate emergency beacons and establish communication with the walkie-talkies included in the emergency kit. To perform take-off and landing at night, the crew has night vision goggles and an infrared survey station. The aircraft has enough space to accommodate rescue paratroopers and rescue boats being parachuted.

The first HC-130J was handed over on November 15, 2012 of the year to the 563th rescue team stationed at Davis-Montan Air Base, Arizona. In total, the US Air Force plans to acquire 78 search and rescue aircraft HC-130J. In contrast to the AC-130 and MS-130, they are planned to be used not only in the aviation of special operations forces, but also in the Reserve Command of the Air Force and the US National Air Guard.

In many ways, the unique Hercules-based aircraft is the EC-130J Commando Solo III. This machine replaced the EC-130E Commando Solo II, decommissioned in the 2006 year. The use of С-130J as a base for an "electronic" aircraft is good because the transporter has large significant internal volumes for placing equipment and operator workstations, as well as a considerable power reserve of the power plant. The spacious fuselage can accommodate a wide range of equipment and provide comfortable working conditions for service personnel, and the power reserve can be used to generate electricity for very "gluttonous" transmission stations.


EC-130J


EC-130J externally differs from other machines of the C-130 family by the presence of antennas on the keel. Six transmitters operating in the frequency range from 450 kHz to 350 MHz emit signals using 9 transmit antennas installed in different parts of the aircraft. A longitudinal antenna above the fuselage provides maximum broadcasting power in the lateral directions, and a complex of four television antennas on the keel - side down. A transmitting antenna of variable length, released from the tail, is designed to operate at various frequencies. On board there are eight radios that receive signals in the 200 kHz - 1000 MHz band. The radiation they capture goes to frequency spectrum analyzers that determine the parameters of the received signals and allow you to fine-tune your own transmissions to the frequency of the enemy’s radio and television transmitters. In-flight refueling equipment allows you to stay above the broadcast area for 10-12 hours continuously.


Workplace of operators EC-130J


The avionics also include connected HF and VHF radio stations, satellite communications equipment, inertial and satellite navigation systems, warning equipment for radar radiation and electronic warfare, devices for shooting thermal traps and dipole reflectors. Specialized equipment allows the aircraft to broadcast and transmit color television signals of various standards in different frequency ranges. In addition to its direct purpose - conducting psychological operations - the EU-130J can be used as an electronic reconnaissance aircraft and electronic warfare, to disrupt the operation of radar, communication systems, television and radio broadcasting of the enemy. The “psychological warfare” airplanes may well be used for purely civilian purposes — providing local broadcasting in the event of natural disasters and catastrophes, bringing instructions and recommendations for evacuation to the affected population, temporary replacement of regional television and radio stations, or expanding the range of their broadcasting.

In most cases, “flying television stations” arrived in the zone of an emerging conflict even before the start of the military phase, in order to determine in a calm environment the working frequencies of the military communication lines and broadcast television and radio stations of the enemy. After studying the local characteristics, a general strategy of psychological operations was formed, and specific programs aimed at specific social groups were prepared in ground-based studios. Then they were broadcast in all the languages ​​spoken in the region. In the past, in a number of cases, before the start of broadcasting on enemy television and radio broadcasting centers, strikes were made with high-precision weapons.

EC-130J usually broadcast from a maximum height, flying in a closed elliptical trajectory. This achieves the best "coverage" of the signal, since the most powerful radiation is directed down and away from the aircraft. In the event of possible fire resistance, the broadcast areas were located along the borders, out of the reach of air defense systems. In the absence of threat, aircraft can operate directly over the territory of the country. Having occupied the echelon in the zone, the EU-130J turns on the receivers and releases the tail antenna. After fine tuning to the ranges used by the army, local broadcasting and television, the broadcast of their own programs begins, and at once at different frequencies. Broadcasting is carried out live, in recording or in relay mode. As one of the officers of the 193 air wing said: “We can receive the president’s speech from the White House via satellite and immediately broadcast it live.”

To be continued ...
57 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -1
    23 August 2019 05: 40
    Nothing is said about the ground component of the US Air Force MTR.
    The ground component of the US Air Force MTR contains about 800 people and includes:
    The 720 th special tactical group of four tactical squadrons, the 17 th squadron of the aviation support control and the 10 th squadron of weather reconnaissance.
    320-th special tactical squadron from the 353 Aviation Group CO.
    321-th special tactical squadron from the 352 Aviation Group CO.
    The typical composition of the special tactical squadron includes three groups of 20 people of various specialties: command and control teams ("scarlet berets"), search and rescue teams ("chestnut berets"), meteorological intelligence specialists ("gray berets"), aviation guidance teams ( "dark brown berets").

    http://www.sinor.ru/~bukren21/VDV_Russia.doc
    1. +14
      23 August 2019 07: 11
      Quote: riwas
      Nothing is said about the ground component of the US Air Force MTR

      You cannot "embrace the immensity." No. Publication called US Air Force Special Operations Aviation - i.e. devoted specifically to the aviation component.
  2. +8
    23 August 2019 06: 22
    Thank you, Sergey, for a good review. We look forward to continuing.
    ps being on a business trip in one of the hot countries I was lucky to see the Combat Talon in the air. In any case, it seemed that it was he, judging by the characteristic "beak"
  3. +6
    23 August 2019 06: 23
    And planes for evacuating people from the ground are not included in the MTR aviation? Something like that.

    1. +11
      23 August 2019 07: 17
      Quote: igordok
      And planes for evacuating people from the ground are not included in the MTR aviation?

      For this, the MS-130N Combat Talon II and earlier modifications of the MS-130, taken out of service, were intended. The publication mentions this: "the features of the MC-130H include the possibility of non-stop evacuation of people and property using the Fulton system." Currently, due to the high risk and complexity of using the Fulton system, it was abandoned and the evacuation is mainly carried out by CV-22B capable of landing "by helicopter."
  4. +14
    23 August 2019 06: 53
    Great article author!

    I will add that modern aero gunboats:
    —- work in the mode of maximum effective fire exposure (and self-preservation) from a height not exceeding ~ 2000-2500 meters
    —- reduced the crew of artillery crews from 7 to 2 people due to automation
    —- work in sniper mode: “one shot / volley == the target is hit!”
    —- this is achieved by the presence of an ever-growing set of on-board sensors, methods and an algorithm for detecting and recognizing information from sensors
    —- Application tactics do not always require air cover
    —- have an adaptive system for setting thermal traps
    —– upon the renewal and 50-year development of the gunboat fleet in the United States, there is no doubt recognition of their NEED in the long-term military operations of America.
    —- VO wrote about the voiced intentions of the Russian Armed Forces “to build air gunboats with functions similar to ganships.” There was an article about the “asymmetric response” of Russia based on the new aircraft. To enter this project WITHOUT AN AVAILABLE PLATFORM - adventurism. "Partner" has a massive, thousand-year-old man-years of experience in the use and development at the level of engineers in the ranks of the Air Force of America. After the availability of TESTED AIR FORCES AND PROTOTYPES BUILT ON THE BASES OF SPECIAL OPERATIONS (direct exploiters), the serial order is transferred to the defense industry complex. Those. development has been and is going from bottom to top in response to necessity.
    —- For Russia, the best answer is “scaling down to reduce” the functions of artillery support, taking into account the chosen turboprop platform, and with the most developed means of self-preservation of the apparatus and the small crew.
    1. +8
      23 August 2019 07: 23
      Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
      Great article author!

      Michael, thank you for the appreciation of my modest work! drinks
      Quote: Mikhail Drabkin
      VO wrote about the voiced intentions of the Russian Armed Forces “to build air gunboats with functions similar to ganships.” There was an article about the “asymmetric response” of Russia based on the new aircraft. To enter this project WITHOUT AN AVAILABLE PLATFORM - adventurism.

      Absolutely agree with you. Yes The An-12 park is worn out, and the platform itself is hopelessly outdated. It seems to me that we do not need an AC-130 gunboat; we can do with a lighter and more inexpensive twin-engine turboprop machine. Given that even if the "gunships" are built in our country, their fleet is unlikely to exceed the size of one squadron.
      1. +3
        23 August 2019 08: 05
        Quote: Bongo
        you can do with a lighter and cheaper twin-engine turboprop.

        Hi Seryoga! hi Do we really need her, a gunboat in the air? After all, it can work only in the complete absence of air defense on the ground, 4-5 MANPADS at different points on the earth and almost simultaneous launch will not leave a chance to ganship. request
        1. +6
          23 August 2019 08: 15
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Quote: Bongo
          you can do with a lighter and cheaper twin-engine turboprop.

          Hi Seryoga! hi Do we really need her, a gunboat in the air? After all, it can work only in the complete absence of air defense on the ground, 4-5 MANPADS at different points on the earth and almost simultaneous launch will not leave a chance to ganship. request

          Hi, Igor! drinks
          Good question! good
          But you apparently did not read this publication too carefully. It says when the AC-130 was last hit by missiles and under what circumstances. Maybe I don’t know what, but I don’t know the type of MANPADS capable of working effectively at night request In addition, modern American "gunships" have a very powerful anti-aircraft missile countermeasures system, including laser equipment that burns out IR-GOS.
          1. +2
            23 August 2019 08: 16
            Quote: Bongo
            But you probably didn’t read this publication too carefully

            Probably.... feel
            1. +4
              23 August 2019 08: 18
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Probably....

              Nothing happens wink I, too, on a nearby branch about the Iranian air defense missile systems dulled.
              1. +2
                23 August 2019 08: 20
                But you hooked me too. Now I’m tearing up the Internet whenever possible and using MANPADS at night. laughing
                1. +2
                  23 August 2019 09: 08
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  the possibilities and practice of using MANPADS at night.

                  At the current level of technology development, no problem.
                  But there is a downside, it is very, very expensive. Especially in the case of MANPADS launched from the shoulder.
                  1. +1
                    23 August 2019 10: 46
                    But there is a downside, it is very, very expensive. Especially in the case of MANPADS launched from the shoulder.
                    the thermal imager has long been no longer a luxury, but an elementary necessity.
                    1. +8
                      23 August 2019 10: 54
                      Quote: Corn
                      the thermal imager has long been no longer a luxury, but an elementary necessity.

                      At what distance is the thermal imager able to detect the AC-130, how much it weighs, what is its cost, and how much can it work non-stop on an autonomous battery?
                      After answering these questions, it will become clear why thermal imagers are not used in conjunction with MANPADS. And "Wishlist" and the fantasies of the adherents "we knock everyone out of the sect from MANPADS" remain "Wishlist" and fantasies. As they say, practice is the criterion of truth. Not a single gunship was shot down after 1991, mainly due to the fact that they do not operate during the day.
                      1. 0
                        23 August 2019 11: 24
                        At what distance is the thermal imager capable of detecting the AC-130
                        target like “civilian airliner” on the 10km level is visible without problems
                        How much does he weigh
                        Depends on the configuration, for example, in the performance of the sight on the arrow, it weighs about 100-200 grams.
                        and how much can he work continuously on an autonomous battery?
                        no idea to be honest
                        what is its cost
                        this is the only barrier to the widest distribution at the moment, but their price over the past 10 years has already fallen by 5 times, now they are actively used in the Donbas and put on jihad mobility in Syria.
                      2. +3
                        23 August 2019 11: 33
                        Quote: Corn
                        target like “civilian airliner” on the 10km level is visible without problems

                        What Russian thermal imager sees it at such a distance?
                        Quote: Corn
                        Depends on the configuration, for example, in the performance of the sight on the arrow, it weighs about 100-200 grams.

                        Apparently we misunderstood each other. How much does a thermal imager capable of detecting an aircraft at a distance of 10 km weigh?
                    2. +2
                      23 August 2019 11: 07
                      Quote: Corn
                      the thermal imager has long been no longer a luxury, but an elementary necessity.

                      It depends on the thermal imager. This is not a shooter.

                      Just figure it out for yourself: the Verba's range is stated at 6 kopecks, plus a large field of view, otherwise, even with external target designation, the target cannot be caught quickly, plus uncooled, plus the dimensions and weight within the limits allowing this device to be installed on a shoulder-launched MANPADS.
                      It turns out very expensive, if not cool.
                      You can reduce the cost, but only due to the characteristics.

                      And this is not enough.
                      Even with a good thermal imager on a MANPADS it’s very difficult to quickly find a target at night (as an example, try to quickly put binoculars on a flying airplane)
                      There is a need for external target designation.

                      First, a system is needed that sends the coordinates of the anti-aircraft gunner's firing position to the ACS. There, having the coordinates of the shooter and the target, they receive the directional and elevation angle of the target, they are transmitted to the shooter's equipment and "sampling of the mismatch angles" begins.
                      For which it is necessary, secondly, to determine in real time the direction and angle of elevation for the "line of sight" MANPADS.
                      This equipment is also expensive. For it must be accurate, easy and not require a lot of time to run
          2. 0
            23 August 2019 08: 44
            Quote: Bongo
            but I do not know the type of MANPADS capable of working effectively at night

            In theory, almost all are modern.
            In the British and Swedish with laser-beam, it's clear there. Accurate external target designation, thermal imager, ASTs system. The latter, as far as I know. the British still have on a portable version of the "Starstrik"
            For other modern ones, a nightlight / thermal imager plus external target designation with coordination. So here, too, there should not be any problems with the use at night.
            1. +2
              23 August 2019 09: 00
              Quote: Spade
              In theory, almost all are modern.

              It must be assumed that this is your purely subjective opinion. Start, of course you can make at night, but get there? It would be great if you could confirm the ability of MANPADS effectively fight an air opponent at night with data from manufacturers.
              1. +1
                23 August 2019 09: 22
                Quote: zyablik.olga
                Start, of course you can make at night, but get there?

                laughing
                I have never heard that at night there are special problems with the passage of waves in the infrared range.

                Everything is exactly the opposite. Hit is not a problem, at least there are no special differences from daytime. But with the capture of the target and the launch, everything is not so rosy. laughing


                Quote: zyablik.olga
                It would be great if you could confirm the ability of MANPADS to effectively deal with an air adversary at night with data from manufacturers.

                You need data "from manufacturers". to find out that a thermal imager or a radar works equally well day and night? I'm afraid the manufacturers take this for granted ...
                Although ... the company SAAB for especially .. doubting on its website indicated. that "Integrated high resolution thermal imager allows for 24/7 capability"(c) Apparently, so that no one has strange doubts.
                https://saab.com/land/weapon-systems/ground-based-air-defence-missile-systems/rbs_70_ng/

                It's enough?
                1. 0
                  23 August 2019 09: 27
                  Quote: Spade
                  I have never heard that at night there are special problems with the passage of waves in the infrared range.

                  Please do not evade, you were asked a specific question.
                  Quote: Spade
                  It's enough?

                  Unfortunately, I don’t have a primary on the phone, but I suppose we are talking about the Swedish RDS-70? How long has this transportable complex become portable? And how many MANPADS shot down targets at night in general?
                  1. +2
                    23 August 2019 09: 41
                    Quote: zyablik.olga
                    How long has this transportable complex become portable?

                    Since it began to be transferred. That is, since its inception
                    laughing laughing laughing



                    Quote: zyablik.olga
                    Please do not evade, you were asked a specific question.

                    Specify the sources confirming that thermal imagers can work at night?
                    Perplexed ... laughing


                    Quote: zyablik.olga
                    Unfortunately, I don’t have a primary on my phone,

                    Copy => go to the Google translator page => paste in the left column => find out that the Swedes consider the presence of a thermal imager a sufficient condition for "24/7" operation
                    However, this is understandable without translation, on one of these numbers.
          3. +3
            23 August 2019 10: 45
            I wondered why MANPADS with infrared seeker cannot work at night. It seems to be the other way around. Stars interfere with target capture, or what? Or are IR traps more effective than during the day?
            And I will wait for the continuation of the material - very interesting.
            1. +2
              23 August 2019 10: 49
              Quote: dzvero
              I wondered why MANPADS with infrared seeker cannot work at night.

              Of course, the fact is that the detection of a target during the day occurs visually by the shooter. And at night the possibilities of human vision are much less.
              1. +3
                23 August 2019 11: 02
                Those. The main problem is the ability of the operator to find the target. And if he managed to direct, then the rocket will work. I see, and thanks!
              2. 0
                24 August 2019 04: 18
                I think to notice the 105mm howitzer shot in the night sky is not a big deal.
                1. 0
                  24 August 2019 04: 35
                  Quote: dokusib
                  I think to notice the 105mm howitzer shot in the night sky is not a big deal.

                  Excuse me, what part of the time the aircraft spent on patrol is the gunfire?
                  1. 0
                    24 August 2019 05: 41
                    I suppose it is not entirely correct to try to shoot down every Hercules flying overhead for fear that it may turn out to be a gunship, because then you have to quickly make your feet out of this area. And secondly, although I am not an expert in the tactics of using the AC-130, I do not think that they are engaged in patrolling ka in Vietnam. Rather, their task is to reach a well-defined area at a well-defined time, where they begin to perform fairly predictable circulations at low altitude.
                    1. 0
                      24 August 2019 06: 02
                      Quote: dokusib
                      I suppose it is not entirely correct to try to shoot down every Hercules flying overhead for fear that it may turn out to be a gunship, because then you have to quickly make your feet out of this area. And secondly, although I am not an expert in the tactics of using the AC-130, I do not think that they are engaged in patrolling ka in Vietnam. Rather, their task is to reach a well-defined area at a well-defined time, where they begin to perform fairly predictable circulations at low altitude.

                      The task of supporting special forces forces and hunting for militant vehicles, as happened in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria, presupposes a long stay of the aircraft in a given area. And the point is not even what kind of "Hercules" flies over your head at night, but in the inability of the MANPADS operator in the dark to visually detect it and make an aimed launch.
        2. +6
          23 August 2019 09: 13
          Some statistics.
          The Americans used these aircraft in many b / d. And they continue to increase their number now about 30 units. Since 1967, fifty modifications built fifty aircraft. For all the time since 1969 in combat clashes 7 pieces were lost. The most lost in Vietnam are 5 aircraft. Total MANPADS shot down 2 aircraft.
          Shot down an aircraft with MANPADS is not so easy.
          The amount of loss speaks for itself. The use of flying batteries is justified. How many would save our guys in Chechnya, if such aircraft were in service with us, otherwise they would send armed men with machine guns to support the Mi-8. In the doorway they put a regular infantry PKM, and then with such antediluvian weapons where there is no computer, the calculator stands and the shooter visually detects the target and fires, terrified the bandits.
          We need such airplanes, but so far only words.
  5. +2
    23 August 2019 09: 51
    Quote: Spade
    Since it began to be transferred. That is, since its inception

    And will they take him far away in a combat-ready position? Can one fighter move with him?
    Quote: Spade
    Specify the sources confirming that thermal imagers can work at night?

    Do not distort. Specific sources confirming the ability of MANPADS equipped with thermal imagers to operate effectively at night?
    Quote: Spade
    Copy => go to the Google translator page => paste in the left column => find out that the Swedes consider the presence of a thermal imager a sufficient condition for "24/7" operation
    However, this is understandable without translation, on one of these numbers.

    It's not easy on the phone, but I did it. There is little specificity. The Swedes can think whatever they want. If MANPADS are as effective at night as during the day, why are they not used at night? And why did the "gunship" shoot the Wagner PMC fighters with impunity? Does the Syrian army have MANPADS?
    1. 0
      23 August 2019 10: 06
      Quote: zyablik.olga
      And will they take him far away in a combat-ready position? Can one fighter move with him?

      And they do not wear it "in combat readiness". It's not for anything. And the number of fighters carrying it does not affect even more.
      It is being transferred, so it’s still MANPADS. Figurative.

      Quote: zyablik.olga
      Specific sources confirming the ability of MANPADS equipped with thermal imagers to operate effectively at night?

      Well, I already gave the link. However, you certainly did not like her laughing

      Quote: zyablik.olga
      If MANPADS are as effective at night as they are during the day, why are they not used at night?

      And who will use them and against whom? Name at least one conflict in which modern MANPADS can be used. Which with thermal imagers and systems for obtaining accurate external target designation.

      Quote: zyablik.olga
      And why did the "gunship" shoot the Wagner PMC fighters with impunity? Does the Syrian army have MANPADS?

      There are no modern ones. And it won’t be for a very long time. Well, why the PMC fighters did not have modern MANPADS like Verba, the question, to put it mildly, is very strange.
      1. +1
        24 August 2019 03: 09
        Quote: Spade
        And they do not wear it "in combat readiness". It's not for anything. And the number of fighters carrying it does not affect even more.
        It is being transferred, so it’s still MANPADS. Figurative.

        In fact, no. It is mainly carried, and in order to bring the RBS-70 to the combat position of time, it is necessary at times more than that of MANPADS with an infrared seeker. In the combat position of the RBS-70, if it is not installed on the vehicle, it is actually stationary and for carrying unsuitable.
        Quote: Spade
        And who will use them and against whom? Name at least one conflict in which modern MANPADS can be used. Which with thermal imagers and systems for obtaining accurate external target designation.

        There were many such conflicts involving modern aviation in Western countries. The presence of sufficiently modern MANPADS in the adversaries did not affect the course of hostilities.
        Lopatov, by the way, you could not provide a list of MANPADS equipped with thermal imagers and the characteristics of nightly search and search systems. Most likely this happened due to the fact that such Portable complexes that can work at night with the same performance as during the day in nature simply do not exist. As I know, real-life passive surveillance and search optoelectronic systems with characteristics that allow the timely detection of air targets weigh tens of kg and are used as part of short-range self-propelled air defense systems.
        Quote: Spade
        There are no modern ones. And it won’t be for a very long time.

        I report: the main contemporary MANPADS in our army is the Igla family, and will remain so for a very long time. I had nothing to do with "Verba", but I would be very grateful to you if you thought it possible to reveal its nighttime possibilities. The same can be said about the "Stinger", nothing more. modern not in the USA.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +2
            24 August 2019 08: 19
            Quote: Spade
            Turn on the fool?

            More careful please, you can run into the otvetka!
            Quote: Spade
            Instead of a dozen seconds a couple of dozen?

            Unfortunately, Seryozha is on demonstration flights, and I don’t know how long it takes to transfer the Swedish complex to a fighting position, but it seems to me that it takes much more time to collect it than for MANPADS.
            Quote: Spade
            "Stinger".

            Quote: Spade
            "Willow"

            Are these massive options in the army? And at what distance do they see the target?
            Quote: Spade
            Does religion not allow external target designation?

            We are atheists ... as for external target designation, the artillery probably did not hear that this requires a radar field and organized radio networks. So where it is, "Gunships" will not be used, you should not consider the enemy stupider than yourself.
            1. 0
              24 August 2019 08: 36
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              Unfortunately, Seryozha is on demonstration flights, and I don’t know how long it takes to transfer the Swedish complex to a fighting position, but it seems to me that it takes much more time to collect it than for MANPADS.

              But this does not translate it into some new category of "non-MANPADS, which you are inventing for a couple out of the blue.

              Quote: zyablik.olga
              Are these massive options in the army? And at what distance do they see the target?

              They will be massive.
              At a distance sufficient for the use of MANPADS at night

              .
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              We are atheists ... as for external target designation, we probably have not heard in artillery that this requires a radar field and organized radio networks.

              laughing laughing laughing
              Naturally, they did not hear. In artillery, people are generally not stupid, so they think that in the most extreme case, voice communication is enough for "external target designation". That is, so that the recipient of the target designation hears it. Everything else is just "add-ons" that increase efficiency.
              1. +1
                24 August 2019 16: 47
                Quote: Spade
                But this does not translate it into some new category of "non-MANPADS, which you are inventing for a couple out of the blue.

                This is actually a transportable complex, which cannot be carried in a combat situation. Will you argue with that?
                Quote: Spade
                They will be massive.

                When they are, then we'll talk, but for now these are your fantasies.
                Quote: Spade
                Naturally did not hear. In artillery, people are mostly not stupid going

                But some with a very high self-conceit, and those who take it to judge what they know little about. request
                1. 0
                  24 August 2019 18: 25
                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  This is actually a transportable complex.

                  I even found a photograph with its carrying .... In short, not serious.


                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  When they will, then we'll talk

                  Has already.
                  Damn, even in the Baltic states such appeared for all their poverty .... Your persistence in trying to prove that the water is actually dry becomes even strange.


                  Quote: zyablik.olga
                  But some with very high self-esteem

                  Exactly. Self-esteem is overstated, but knowledge is lacking. You have to go over to the personality, right?

                  Remember, external target designation is not so difficult. And it is used from the very moment the appearance of anti-aircraft gunners back in World War I ... because the first anti-aircraft gunners were gunners. laughing Where the topic of external target designation is worked out like no other.

                  By the way, guess how do I know that the fighter in the photo turned his face north?
                  1. +2
                    25 August 2019 02: 55
                    Quote: Spade
                    I even found a photograph with its carrying .... In short, not serious.

                    If you want to consider the complex that you usually carry and which you need to assemble from several parts to be put into a combat position, after which it becomes stationary, it’s your will.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Damn, even the Balts appeared with all their poverty ....

                    You are well aware that with the help of those thermal imagers that are installed on portable anti-aircraft systems searching for targets is extremely difficult. And in general, the conversation was originally about why the "gunships" are not affected by MANPADS.
                    Quote: Spade
                    Exactly. Self-esteem is overstated, but knowledge is lacking. You have to go over to the personality, right?

                    Olya may be less informed in some matters than I am, but it is somehow strange to reproach her for becoming personal. Sometimes you "don't notice the log in your own eye." You didn't just write it like that:
                    Quote: zyablik.olga
                    More careful please, you can run into the otvetka!

                    Quote: Spade
                    Remember, external target designation is not so difficult.

                    I'm not sure if in a dialogue with an opponent it is worth pointing out and writing "Remember" to someone. No. This will not find understanding. There are people on the site who are at least not dumber than you.
                    External target designation is possible only where there is a centralized control of the air defense system, which implies the presence of radar and visual observation posts, radio networks and a command post where information is processed. Where do the "ganships" operate?
                    1. 0
                      25 August 2019 07: 45
                      Quote: Bongo
                      If you want to consider the complex that you usually carry and which you need to assemble from several parts to be put into a combat position, after which it becomes stationary, it’s your will.

                      This is not "my will", this is an international classification. Which, taking into account the number control of MANPADS by both the OSCE and the UN, is a precise piece and has legal consequences for such a classification. And it certainly cannot be changed on the basis of some estimates of a certain lady.

                      Quote: Bongo
                      You are well aware that with the help of thermal imagers installed on portable anti-aircraft systems, it is extremely difficult to search for targets.

                      But probably. And in the presence of external target designation, typical for all modern MANPADS, this "difficult" becomes a completely solvable problem.
                      And "Verba", and "Stingkr", and "Mistral", and "Starstrik" and RBS-70 by default are able to be included in the ACS and receive external target designation from it. And, for example, the same Balts, in addition to Swedish MANPADS, also bought a "Giraffe" to ensure their work. That is, no matter how you try to convince everyone otherwise, MANPADS still get the opportunity to fight air targets at night. Even in relatively poor states.

                      Quote: Bongo
                      Olya may be less informed in some matters

                      And this is not worth trying to compensate for the transition to the individual. I hinted about this both last time and the year before last. But apparently for her there is no other dispute method.

                      Quote: Bongo
                      I'm not sure if in a dialogue with an opponent it is worth pointing out and writing "Remember" to someone. no It will not find understanding.

                      Are you sure that it is also necessary to switch to individuals instead?
                      Think of this "remember" as a simple reaction to trying to translate an argument into an exchange of insults.

                      Quote: Bongo
                      External target designation is possible only where there is centralized management of the air defense system, which implies the presence of radar and visual observation posts, radio networks and a command post where information is processed.

                      And here again .... You are already starting to write nonsense for the sake of trying to prove that the water is actually dry.
                      1993, Mogadishu, external target designation in the form of adolescents setting fire to tires. So effective that the Americans lost two helicopters shot down with RPG-7

                      Quote: Bongo
                      Where do the "ganships" operate?

                      Here ...
                      As required.
                      "Gunships" are not shot down with MANPADS only because these MANPADS are not available from the opposing side.
                      What is essentially a temporary situation. Including the fault of the United States itself, which is not particularly suitable for the process of arming its situational allies among terrorists.
                      1. +1
                        25 August 2019 08: 57
                        Quote: Spade
                        This is not "my will", this is an international classification.

                        Legal incidents do not change the essence. With the same success, "Dzhigit" can also be attributed to MANPADS, especially since their weight is close. If you do not take into account the fact that in the armed forces of countries using the latest versions of RBS 70 they are placed exclusively on vehicles, and gasoline units are used to power the complexes, then it is of course portable. Yes
                        Quote: Spade
                        And "Verba", and "Stingkr", and "Mistral", and "Starstrik" and RBS-70 by default are able to be included in the ACS and receive external target designation from it.

                        And who argues with this?
                        Quote: Spade
                        That is, as you are not trying to assure everyone of the opposite, MANPADS still get the opportunity to fight air targets at night.

                        Lopatov, you contradict yourself:
                        Quote: Spade
                        Even with a good thermal imager on a MANPADS it’s very difficult to quickly find a target at night (as an example, try to quickly put binoculars on a flying airplane)
                        There is a need for external target designation.

                        First, a system is needed that sends the coordinates of the anti-aircraft gunner's firing position to the ACS. There, having the coordinates of the shooter and the target, they receive the directional and elevation angle of the target, they are transmitted to the shooter's equipment and "sampling of the mismatch angles" begins.
                        For which it is necessary, secondly, to determine in real time the direction and angle of elevation for the "line of sight" MANPADS.
                        This equipment is also expensive. For it must be accurate, easy and not require a lot of time to run

                        Do many countries have this in practice? Even in our army, MANPADS cannot be effectively used at night.
                        Quote: Spade
                        And here again .... You are already starting to write nonsense for the sake of trying to prove that the water is actually dry.

                        Lopatov, and after that you write:
                        Quote: Spade
                        Are you sure that it is also necessary to switch to individuals instead?
                        Think of this "remember" as a simple reaction to trying to translate an argument into an exchange of insults.
                        wassat Neither I nor Olya were the first to cross the line. No.
                        Quote: Spade
                        1993, Mogadishu, external target designation in the form of adolescents setting fire to tires. So effective that the Americans lost two helicopters shot down with RPG-7

                        At night? wink
                        Quote: Spade
                        "Gunships" are not shot down with MANPADS only because these MANPADS are not available from the opposing side.

                        There were no Arrows and Eagles in Iraq and Syria, are you sure about that?
                      2. 0
                        25 August 2019 10: 23
                        Quote: Bongo
                        Legal incidents do not change the essence.

                        And the bottom line is that three people carry the RBS-70. What there are many photos and video confirmations. Therefore, this is a MANUFACTURED anti-aircraft missile system. I will not argue more on this stupid topic.
                        Despite reality, you want to assert that this MANPADS is actually impossible to transfer - your business

                        Quote: Bongo
                        Lopatov, you contradict yourself:

                        If you turn on the brain, then no.
                        Because the possibility of target designation is one thing, and its effectiveness is another.


                        Quote: Bongo
                        And who argues with this?

                        The one who wrote about "I do not know the type of MANPADS capable of working effectively at night"


                        Quote: Bongo
                        Neither I nor Olya were the first to cross the line.

                        But this is a lie in its purest form.
                        It's usual for you as a couple. First, aggression, then "what for us." Just pay attention to the first answer to my post, which has only two things - aggression and ignorance. And absolute zero information
                        So discussions do not lead.


                        Quote: Bongo
                        At night?

                        What's the difference?
                        All nit-picking cannot refute a reinforced concrete fact: external target designation is a much broader concept than you are trying to imagine.

                        Need a night? You can recall the "Apache Show" near Karbala on the night of March 23-24, 2003. Observers reporting air targets via civil wire telephone lines and cellular communications, a signal to open fire - turning off and turning on the power supply ...
                        The Americans are just very lucky that the Iraqis have the most powerful zen. weapons were 57-mm guns. Without any night lights and anything else. Nevertheless, out of 34 participating helicopters, three remained combat-ready, one was shot down and the crew was captured, only 11 of the damaged ones were able to bring their condition into combat on their own.

                        There is an air observation post, there is a starting position for zen. departments, there is a single target designation system, for example, around the world, there is a connection between the post and the position. And external target designation is possible. Let it be much less effective, let the target in the sector be searched with a thermal imager longer than when receiving a directional angle and elevation angle. But there is a target designation.
                      3. +2
                        25 August 2019 11: 43
                        Quote: Spade
                        And the bottom line is that three people carry RBS-70.

                        In the early versions it is Yes
                        And how many people carry a gas generator?
                        Quote: Spade
                        The one who wrote about "I don't know the type of MANPADS capable of working effectively at night"
                        Well, at least I don’t know the domestic MANPADS capable of independently working with the same efficiency as day. Moreover, I never had any night training launches.
                        Quote: Spade
                        But this is a lie in its purest form.

                        Lopatov, have you accused me of being a liar? For some reason, I immediately remembered one visitor to the site trying to prove to me that OH-58 Kiowa is still used in the American army aviation. When he was offered to argue for a bottle of whiskey, this man respected by me behaved strangely. wink
                        Olya, of course, is at times overly emotional. But if you think that you are offended, you can always call us to order through the site administration. At least neither my wife nor I allow myself this:
                        Quote: Spade
                        If you turn on the brains
                        No.
                        Quote: Spade
                        What's the difference?

                        Big one. It was originally about countering the AC-130.

                        As for the rest. It so happened that having quit the armed forces, I continued my labor activity in another department in my military specialty. Every year I have to undergo a very tough medical examination (much tougher than in the Russian Defense Ministry). I do not know what is happening to you and what is the state of your health, but lately you have begun to show such traits as excessive categorization, resentment, authoritarianism in communicating with the interlocutor and arrogance. In the past, it was pleasant and interesting to communicate with you, but in the last year it has become very difficult. Unfortunately, not only me, but some other visitors to the site note this.
  6. 0
    23 August 2019 11: 12
    Always critical of ganships due to lack of effectiveness regarding cost and risk.
    In January 1991, the AS-130N, operating in the daytime, was hit by the Strela-2M MANPADS, all 14 crew members on board were killed. This was the first and last loss of the “flying gunboat” since the war in Southeast Asia.
    it was the first and last ray of the use of ganship in the presence of MANPADS from the enemy. Therefore, since then, ganships have been used very selectively, as the Americans themselves say, only after careful reconnaissance, since for the time being MANPADS were piece and easily traced products.
    Maybe I don’t know what, but I don’t know the type of MANPADS capable of working effectively at night
    even morally obsolete Soviet night-lights can see such a goal without much difficulty, and since then the equipment has stepped far forward, as far as I know, even civilian thermal imagers easily find an airliner behind the clouds.
    In addition, modern American "gunships" have a very powerful anti-aircraft missile countermeasures system, including laser equipment that burns out IR-GOS.
    even in Chechnya and Georgia, missile launches are often performed with a doublet for a more likely defeat, how many missiles on approach can an Israeli laser shoot down?
    IMHO, an attempt to make a tank out of an airplane is inherently flawed, a counterinsurgency toy for the rich, no more.
    1. +1
      24 August 2019 04: 43
      Quote: Corn
      it was the first and last ray of the use of ganship in the presence of MANPADS from the enemy. Therefore, since then ganships have been used very selectively, as the Americans themselves say

      Can I link to these statements? And despite the fact that the AC-130 spent in the air over Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya, thousands of hours.
      Quote: Corn
      Fortunately, for the time being, MANPADS were piece products and were easy to track.

      What do you mean? And the Americans have repeatedly expressed "extreme concern" about the widespread proliferation of MANPADS, and even concluded an agreement with our country to control them. As the author already wrote in the comments:
      Quote: Bongo
      this weapon is widespread. Older MANPADS can be bought on the black market for several thousand dollars. In exceptional circumstances, the price can drop to several hundred dollars. MANPADS, stolen from the huge arsenals of Saddam Hussein, the Americans in Iraq bought back for $ 500 apiece. A large number of MANPADS ended up on the "black market" of weapons after the "Arab Spring", most of them came from looted warehouses in Libya.

      Quote: Corn
      even in Chechnya and Georgia, missile launches are often performed with a doublet for a more likely defeat

      At night? wassat
      Quote: Corn
      even morally obsolete Soviet night-lights can see such a goal without much difficulty, and since then the equipment has stepped far forward, as far as I know, even civilian thermal imagers easily find an airliner behind the clouds.

      Type this night light please name?
      1. 0
        24 August 2019 05: 15
        Quote: zyablik.olga
        MANPADS stolen from Saddam Hussein’s vast arsenals, the Americans in Iraq bought out 500 dollars apiece.

        Interestingly, I recalled NTV reporting about mid-zero approximately, our FSB officers arrested an Arab who wanted to buy uranium, and at the same time MANPADS Igla in the amount of 20 pieces for a million dollars, i.e. at 50 thousand apiece.
        1. +1
          24 August 2019 05: 22
          But no, I ask for apologies, memory in holes. crying 50 pieces of MANPADS he bought for a million, i.e. at 20 thousand apiece. sad I got it all wrong.
          1. +2
            24 August 2019 05: 27
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            50 pieces of MANPADS he bought for a million, i.e. at 20 thousand apiece.

            It is relatively inexpensive. As my husband said, it’s not enough to have MANPADS, they also need disposable batteries. They have a limited shelf life and require replacement after each inclusion and often, due to the lack of batteries, MANPADS are not operational.
            In addition, for MANPADS it is necessary to train shooters on simulators, otherwise the effectiveness of their use is very low.
            1. +2
              24 August 2019 05: 51
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              They have a limited shelf life and require replacement after each inclusion and often, due to the lack of batteries, MANPADS are not operational.

              So you can probably add new batteries. recourse Well, I would try, anyway.
              Quote: zyablik.olga
              In addition, for MANPADS it is necessary to train shooters on simulators,

              As they say in the Talmud:
              "9F663 set is intended for psychophysiological training of anti-aircraft gunners" ...
              How! "Psychophysiological"! fellow
              By the way, and mother bomb on Tora Bora from which plane was thrown off, do not remember?
              1. +2
                24 August 2019 05: 57
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                So you can probably add new batteries.

                It uses a very specific disposable battery, which lasts about 1 minutes.
                Quote: Mordvin 3
                As they say in the Talmud:
                "9F663 set is intended for psychophysiological training of anti-aircraft gunners" ...
                How! "Psychophysiological"!

                If you don’t cook, then the rocket will most likely go into milk, or the shooter will fry a dead spot. In fact, MANPADS are not as easy to use weapons as shown in the movies.
  7. +2
    23 August 2019 13: 24
    hi
    Great article, as always, plus set!
    Even 10 years ago, drones and AC 130 quite routinely exchanged information about targets with units on the ground in the current mode and could compensate for the lack of firepower and ammunition on the ground in the style of "3 stores for a rifle and a grenade for one, but we have the AC130." Unfortunately, we also have 40 years of need for CAS exactly in the form that ganships do, but ...
    Then a lot of copy-paste:
    “... he ran away up the slope and felt pain in his legs and a burning sensation in his lungs.
    It was in the summer of 2009. We were in the mountains at an altitude of about two and a half kilometers, two hours of flight south of Kabul. ...
    I saw a beam of an infrared laser, with the help of which an unmanned reconnaissance vehicle monitored the movements of eight militants who ran out of the house when we arrived. Having barely left the helicopter, our team began their pursuit.
    ... - Five people are heading north down the hill, ”I heard the voice of the operator of an unmanned scout. I could see a laser beam groping the opposite slope of the hill.
    ... Having reached the ridge, we stopped so as not to rush into an ambush in a hurry. Before us lay three bodies. Next to one was a machine gun, the second was armed with an RPG hand grenade launcher. We were lucky: we turned off the militants with the heaviest weapons from the game.
    The killed militants were wearing wide shirts and baggy pants. On their feet they had galoshes with sharp upturned noses, which the Taliban usually wore. They said in our squadron that in Afghanistan any person in black galoshes should already arouse suspicion. And indeed, I didn’t have to see anyone except Mujahideen wear such shoes.
    ...on the radio reported that on the approach fire support from the air. The AS-130 attack aircraft was approaching us.
    “Support is coming,” Phil shouted at me loudly, although I was standing only half a meter away from him.
    From the crest it was seen how the 20-mm guns of the AS-130 will solve the remains of the militants
    . We sent a service dog forward, which Phil jokingly called a “hairy rocket,” and began to search for the fugitives. All of them were either mortally wounded or killed.
    At this time, Phil and a group of fighters blocked one fighter in the building, and we began to comb the surrounding area, covered with tall grass, as with the AC-130 reported that we saw several more people. The “hairy rocket” suddenly darted to the right, smelling the enemy. I heard him scream about fifteen meters from me when a dog attacked him.
    Having recalled the dog, we threw a ditch with hand grenades, where he sat in ambush, and carefully moved forward ...
    With a laser sight of a rifle, I tried to somehow highlight my path in the grass. Burned spots were clearly visible in those places where 20 mm shells hit.
    Each step was difficult.
    And right under my feet, I noticed some kind of black shadow. Deciding that it was a log, I stepped on it and immediately heard human wheezing. I bounced back and fired. I must say that I was scared in earnest.
    Recovering after a couple of seconds, I went over to inspect the corpse. It looks like he was dead before I shot. Just when I stepped on his chest, the weight of my body squeezed out the remains of air from my lungs. The corpse was stitched with fragments of cannon shells. Searching around, I found an AK-47 and a bandolier with spare stores.
    ////////////////
    According to unmanned scouts, armed guards were deployed around several houses at the scene of the operation. ...
    Pictures from the drone themselves do not look very impressive. The people on the screen resemble ants, but any information was important to me and Steve. It would never occur to anyone to guard ordinary houses. If we add here a special situation in Kunar and intelligence data about the alleged gathering of leaders, then a picture has developed that allows us to draw certain conclusions.
    In most cases, the Taliban, seeing us, preferred not to engage in battle, but to run away and hide in forest belts and mountains. That is why we decided to ambush at the top to prevent them from leaving. There we could easily intercept and destroy them.
    The distance to the goal was seven kilometers. At first glance, this is not so much, but the height difference must be taken into account. My group most of the way had to climb rocks at night. Knowing this, I decided to leave the bulletproof plates of my vest at home and take only three spare stores, one hand grenade, a walkie-talkie and a first-aid kit. All the others also tried to make their equipment as light as possible. The saying "a pocket doesn’t pull" in this case clearly did not suit us.
    But if you refuse armor plates, then you must be prepared for the consequences of such a decision. ...
    The goal was too dainty to simply abandon it. Even though we had already lost three people and a dog, we had enough strength to complete the task. The drones, still hanging over the object, reported that some extraordinary activity was not observed there, so we still had the factor of surprise. We decided to change the plan. Now my group did not have to climb the goat paths along the peaks, but to go along with everyone along the bottom of the valley and at the very end separate from the rest, climb the slope and attack the target from above.
    Of course, it would be easier for us to go along the road and further, but we knew that there were Taliban observation posts. We could not be allowed to be discovered. Unmanned aerial vehicles still reported that militants were sitting under trees along the road and patrolling buildings.
    “The enemy is approaching from the north,” I heard from the radio.
    Reports began to arrive that small groups of militants were leaving the valley and heading towards our position. We already fought at three points, and then the enemy unexpectedly received reinforcements from the side.
    After a few minutes, the noise of the AC-130 engines was heard. In the headphones we could hear our platoon commander giving target designation to the crew of the aircraft, pointing it at groups of militants approaching from the north.
    “If they kill me today, don’t tell my mom that I didn’t take the armor plates with me,” I whispered to Charlie.
    “Agreed,” he answered. “I wanted to ask you the same thing.”
    After some time, we heard on the radio: "Everything is clean."
    The object was completely under our control, but now thorough inspection and collection of evidence was still ahead. As a rule, we took photographs of corpses, carried weapons and ammunition in one pile, and also took with us all flash drives, computers and documents.
    This procedure has been worked out for years. Its purpose was to protect itself from false accusations that we were killing innocent peasants. We knew that a few days after the raid, the village elders would come to the nearest stronghold of NATO troops to accuse us of killing civilians. These "civilians" were now lying in front of us, armed with RPGs and AK-47s. The more evidence we collect, the easier it will be to dismiss all the charges.
    - Time is running out, guys. Finish faster, the platoon shouted. - The enemy from the north is still approaching us.
    His voice was drowned out by the roar of 120-mm (apparently translation error) guns from the AC-130. The shells lay a few hundred meters below us down the valley.
    I glanced at my watch. It was already the beginning of the fifth. It should be getting light soon. Data was received from unmanned scouts that more and more militants are moving in our direction.
    Going back was much easier. Adrenaline was seething in our blood from the realization of what business we had just done. On the way, I had to stop several times and direct the plane at a group of militants who tried to pursue us. We did not want to stay in the valley longer than necessary, especially in the light of day.
    “Personally, we eliminated seventeen militants,” the platoon captain reported, “another seven to eight laid the AS-130.
    The captain was clearly pleased that we had destroyed so many militants who constantly tormented his stronghold with their attacks. ”
    https://royallib.com/book/ouen_mark/nelegkiy_den_iz_pervih_ust_ob_operatsii_morskih_kotikov_po_likvidatsii_usami_ben_ladena.html
  8. +5
    23 August 2019 13: 54
    These are the articles that should prevail in the VO! And not jokes, like "how commands are given in the Ukrainian army"!
  9. +2
    23 August 2019 16: 36
    Need ganshipy .. Not needed ..
    Keyword - Special Operations. And there may be plenty of options ..
    Therefore, I agree with the author, who said in a comment that the Ganships squadron would not hurt.
  10. +2
    23 August 2019 19: 59
    Good afternoon, Sergey, thanks for the interesting work, we were waiting for such works, there is practically nothing to read. There is a request, if possible in more detail on the targeted REO and weapons, of these unique machines. Thank you very much.
  11. 0
    23 August 2019 20: 17
    An international prohibition of "non-proliferation" has been imposed on MANPADS, like an atomic weapon. And its development potential is very great.
    1. +3
      24 August 2019 03: 18
      Quote: Denimax
      An international prohibition of "non-proliferation" has been imposed on MANPADS, like an atomic weapon. And its development potential is very great.

      You are exaggerating a little. MANPADS have been supplied and are being supplied by the main manufacturers for export. In the early 2000s, the United States and the Russian Federation signed an Agreement on Controlling the Proliferation of MANPADS. However, these weapons are widespread. Older MANPADS can be bought on the black market for several thousand dollars. In exceptional circumstances, the price can drop to several hundred dollars. MANPADS stolen from Saddam Hussein's huge arsenals were bought by the Americans in Iraq at $ 500 apiece. A large number of MANPADS ended up on the "black market" of weapons after the "Arab Spring", most of them came from looted warehouses in Libya.
      1. -1
        24 August 2019 08: 25
        Quote: Bongo
        You exaggerate a little.

        and you are replacing concepts.
        We are discussing modern MANPADS. with automated external target designation systems and thermal imaging sights. Do those against whom the Americans are using the Hanships? No, and it is not expected. You cannot buy or steal them.

        Dot. The rest is so, the words ...