Military Review

AKS-74 will be replaced by PP-2000

106
The old AKS-74U, which has been in service since 1979, was found a replacement. True, so far only in the videoconferencing. The shortened version of the legendary Kalashnikov assault rifle can be replaced by the 9-mm submachine gun PP-2000, to the creation of which experts from the Tula Design Bureau of Instrument Making had a hand. Russian military pilots are going to arm with a new submachine gun, which was first presented to the Russian public in 2004 at the Moscow Interpolitech exhibition.



PP-2000 may enter the NAZ combat pilots



PP-2000 submachine gun can become a new rifle weapons "Last battle" for military pilots who had previously been armed with either an AKS-74U machine gun or a Stechkin automatic pistol. The decision to modernize the NAZ - a portable army supply of pilots piloting combat aircraft was made by the country's military leadership based on the results of the Russian Air Force operation in Syria. The possible replacement of the AKS-74U with a more compact and convenient PP-2000 last week was reported by the TASS agency, citing its own sources in the Russian defense industry. It is noted that representatives of the Ministry of Defense took with interest the proposal to replace the AKS-74U with the PP-2000 received from representatives of the military industry. At the same time, TASS journalists do not have official confirmation of the information that was provided by their source.

Today, in addition to water, food, a portable first-aid kit and communications equipment, a shortened version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle of 5,45 mm caliber - AKS-74U is also being included in the pilot’s wearable army reserve, which, before groundbreaking operations, is put into a special cup fixed under the ejection seat, besides water , a stock of cartridges for him, as well as grenades. This set is a necessary minimum of things that can be useful to a pilot during an emergency ejection, especially over territory that is occupied by enemy troops.

AKS-1979U assault rifle adopted in the 74 year as a whole satisfies all the requirements of small arms for self-defense. This is a relatively compact weapon (the barrel is two times shorter than that of the traditional AK-74), which has high firepower and a good firing range (effective distance to 300 meters). The main problem is related to the placement of weapons, their dimensions and mass. NAZ together with the machine gun are located in an ejection seat, at the same time, the pilot does not always have the opportunity to get to the set. In some cases, the pilot has to engage in battle with the enemy immediately after landing by parachute, and sometimes even while in the air. That is, the combat pilot should be able to quickly get to the weapon. That is why in Syria, during combat sorties, the pilots took with them additional firearms - Stechkin or Makarov pistols, which together with spare stores could be placed in the pockets of the unloading vest. But the combat capabilities of such pistols are extremely limited, and the firepower of such weapons is not great.


AKS-74U


This problem raised the issue of re-equipping combat pilots with more compact and light models of automatic weapons than the AKS-74U. Fortunately, small arms with the necessary firepower exist in our country. We are talking about submachine guns, whose school of development in Russia is very well developed, and even schoolchildren are familiar with mass samples of such weapons from the time of the Great Patriotic War. As a possible replacement, the AKS-74U is considering the Tula PP-2000 submachine gun under the 9x19 mm Parabellum cartridge, widely used around the world. The new Russian submachine gun was created at the beginning of the 2000's in the Tula Design Bureau under the leadership of recognized domestic designers V.P. Gryazev and A.G. Shipunov. The model of compact small arms created in Tula was initially positioned as a weapon for law enforcement officials, as well as a personal self-defense weapon for certain categories of soldiers (pilots, armored crews, gun crews, etc.). Despite this, so far the PP-2000 has gained distribution only in some units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, as well as in the Federal Bailiff Service.

Features of the PP-2000 submachine gun


The main advantage of the PP-2000 submachine gun over the AKS-74U is its low weight. A submachine gun without a magazine with ammunition and a stock weighs only 1,4 kg, this is a very worthy indicator for weapons of this class, which makes it possible to attribute the model to one of the lightest on the planet. For comparison, the AKS-74U machine without a magazine weighs 2,7 kg. The submachine gun gains much in weight not only due to its smaller size, but also due to the fact that the body of the weapon is made of high-strength plastic. At the same time, shops with 20 or 44 cartridges can be used with weapons, which also increases the variability of tactical use of the PP-2000 submachine gun.

The submachine gun also wins in overall dimensions. The length of the weapon without a butt is only 350 mm, with the butt unfolded it does not exceed 582 mm. At the same time, the length of the AKS-74Y with the stock folded is at least 490 mm, that is, the machine is 140 mm longer than the PP-2000. The only thing the submachine gun absolutely loses to Kalashnikov is the maximum effective firing range, which for the PP-2000 does not exceed 100 meters. But this is the case when you can compromise between compactness and firepower of the model. Still, the pilot will not have to conduct a combined arms battle, especially at long distances. First of all, a pilot needs a weapon for self-defense in close combat. Also, compact and light weapons are better suited for military operations in urban environments.



At the same time, like any modern small arms, the new Tula submachine gun has a number of features that make its operation and use more convenient, and the model itself is very practical. Although the fuse-translator of fire modes is located on the left side of the submachine gun, the magazine latch button and cocking handle can be easily reassigned to any side of the weapon, which makes the PP-2000 convenient to use for both right-handed and left-handed people. Another worldwide trend is the regular use of Picatinny rail guides. On the submachine gun, you can easily place a collimator sight, which will facilitate the aiming process, especially in low light conditions, as well as another tactical kit from the laser target indicator and tactical lights to night vision devices. It is allowed to use PP-2000 with a silent firing device.

In general, designers from Tula have worked quite seriously on the ergonomics of weapons, having implemented several interesting solutions. If the pistol grip, which is also the neck for stores, is the traditional move of submachine gun designers, then the massive-shaped trigger guard is an interesting solution that allows the shooter not only to use it as a fire control handle, but also to fire at the enemy without removing from the hands of thick gloves. Another interesting design decision is the possibility of using a spare magazine with cartridges as a shoulder rest. At the same time, at the exhibition in 2006, the public was shown the PP-2000 model, which received a removable butt in the form of a side-folding metal shoulder rest.

Separately, it is possible to note the ammunition used. PP-2000 is designed to use the common 9x19 mm cartridge, which is in many ways inferior to the 5,45x39 mm cartridge of the AKS-74Y machine gun. But even in the caliber 9 mm, quite powerful ammunition has been created today. So, together with a submachine gun, a line of armor-piercing cartridges of increased power can be used - 7Н21 and 7Н31. The use of 9-mm cartridges with the armor-piercing bullet 7Н31 significantly expands the capabilities of firearms, increasing not only penetrative, but also stopping action (in comparison with other cartridges of the caliber 9x19 mm). According to the test results, the armor-piercing bullet 7Н31 is able to penetrate up to 8 mm of steel at a distance of 15 meters, 5 mm at 50 meters and 3 mm at 90 meters. Such characteristics of the ammunition allow the shooter to confidently hit enemy soldiers using personal protective equipment (body armor, helmets), as well as targets located behind light shelters, for example, inside cars.

AKS-74 will be replaced by PP-2000

9X19 mm cartridge with armor-piercing bullet 7Н31


Another advantage of the PP-2000 is its low recoil and good balance of weapons, which allows firing from a submachine gun even with one hand, including without a shoulder rest. In fact, weapons can be fired like a conventional pistol. This is an undeniable plus, given that during the bailout process the pilot may be injured or injured before leaving the aircraft cabin. In such circumstances, operating the PP-2000 is much easier than using the same AKS-74U machine.
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  1. eagle owl
    eagle owl 21 August 2019 04: 47
    +5
    The dog knows him. Specialists I know - he is praised. Well, it’s not in vain that they drove at the shortcut, they say the female dog)
  2. Sergey_G_M
    Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 05: 22
    +5
    I hope that the pilots were asked when adopting it, otherwise they will carry something else with them again)))
    In principle, a good option for pilots is compact and lightweight; shops for it are again more compact, lighter and more convenient to place than for AKs.
    The only thing I didn’t like was that the ergonomics for wearing in cramped conditions are a little not optimal (parts and structural elements that can catch on something), but this is understandable. The software was not developed as specialized for pilots.
  3. riwas
    riwas 21 August 2019 05: 24
    +6
    Again repeat.
    Powers had a pistol with a silencer, so that in case of which he would not draw attention to himself.
    I think for the PP-2000 pilots there should also be a removable silencer.
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 06: 06
      +18
      Well, you compared Powers' bundle from which you can only shoot yourself quietly and normal PP.
      You still say that a pilot with a silencer to the PP should carry a couple of stores with subsonic cartridges))
      A crashed pilot is not a saboteur and not an agent 007, if no one noticed him, it is better to sit quietly and wait for the rescue team, rather than portray Leon killer))
      1. riwas
        riwas 21 August 2019 06: 39
        +3
        PP-2000 can also be equipped with a silencer

        The initial velocity of the PP-2000 is small supersonic 450 m / s (cartridge 7N21).
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ПП-2000
        So the muffler, or rather the ICP, will significantly reduce the sound from the shot.
        Here, in order to quietly solve problems, if the pilot is noticed by one, two people, PMS is needed.
      2. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 21 August 2019 12: 15
        +2
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        better to sit quietly and wait for the rescue team

        The pilot is supposed to do this only at the evacuation points on the flight mission, and you still need to get there.
      3. Oleg (Kharkov)
        Oleg (Kharkov) 26 September 2019 22: 33
        +2
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        You still say that a pilot with a silencer to the PP should carry a couple of stores with subsonic cartridges))

        is not it easier then PSM? Small, light, do not pull hard, even if the leg is broken. Enough to shoot, fight ... I don’t know.
        But behind enemy lines, and even after the bailout, there is little sense from both the PP-2000 and the Pecheneg ... maybe with what kind of people's militia, with pitchforks and stakes PP-2000, or what modern analogue of the Leuchtpistole Z will do, but the pistol machine gun?
        re-read "The Story of a Real Man"
        Imagine you were catapulted. Pain in the spine, in the legs. forest. cold. What is better than PP-2000 or an extra first-aid kit with promedol, canned meat, etc.? I do not know.
  4. svp67
    svp67 21 August 2019 06: 28
    +2
    Features of the PP-2000 submachine gun


    So I understand that the main advantage of the PP-2000 is its compactness, the ability to aim firing with one hand and the use of the "Parabellum" cartridge, which means the ability to replenish the ammunition at the expense of the enemy
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 06: 38
      +21
      Quote: svp67
      , which means the ability to replenish ammunition at the expense of the enemy

      I can see it right - the pilot jumps out of an airplane / helicopter and in the Rambo style kills all enemies, and then instead of taking a machine gun from the killed enemies, he collects pistol magazines and reloads his PP from them))
      Guys end the experience of computer toys translate into reality (((
      1. svp67
        svp67 21 August 2019 06: 49
        +5
        Quote: Sergey_G_M
        and then instead of taking an assault rifle from killed opponents,

        Why instead of? He may well take it, if he can use it. And not everyone can do this. And the 9-mm "Lugersky" cartridge is very common, it is used not only for supplying the army, but also for the police, and also in private use.
        So you're right, life is not a "computer toy"
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 21 August 2019 09: 17
      +2
      Serega - the video shows how the shutter frame walks. It is in my opinion too open, and prone to contamination. What do you think?
      1. svp67
        svp67 21 August 2019 09: 21
        +4
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Serega - the video shows how the shutter frame walks. It is in my opinion too open, and prone to contamination. What do you think?

        It’s embarrassing for himself, and if suddenly what kind of blow will hit her, how much strength will he bear? And, what if there is next, the same parachute, maybe he can get there and prevent shooting. Why not cover? There are a lot of questions and I would like to know the answers to it. But still this PP is better than the PM of the crew of the same tank.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 21 August 2019 09: 29
          +3
          Quote: svp67
          But still this PP is better than the PM of the crew of the same tank.

          Then the proven Cypress. Modify the body kit, and all. request
          1. bouncyhunter
            bouncyhunter 21 August 2019 17: 33
            +1
            hi
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Then the proven Cypress. Modify the kit, and that's it

            According to Cypress, they will immediately begin to whine that weak cartridge. yes
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 21 August 2019 17: 38
              +3
              Hello Pasha. hi Why is it weak - the aiming range differs by only 25 m. request Want more powerful - "Heather" to help. 9 by 21, and a range under 200m. And this one is too controversial.
              1. bouncyhunter
                bouncyhunter 21 August 2019 17: 47
                +2
                Igor, I heard complaints from Veresk that overheating during intensive shooting (burns the front arm), but it seems that this problem was solved in SM-2M. PP-2000 held in his hands, but did not shoot - so I can not judge ...
                1. svp67
                  svp67 21 August 2019 21: 59
                  +2
                  Quote: bouncyhunter
                  (burns front hand)

                  Well, that is not the bottom ... Hello Pasha hi
                  1. bouncyhunter
                    bouncyhunter 22 August 2019 19: 56
                    +1
                    User convenience applies not only to household devices. wink
                    Seryoga, hello! hi drinks
      2. Sergey_G_M
        Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 09: 46
        +1
        The frame will self-clean when shooting, so that it doesn’t clean there, not dirt, but superglue needs to be poured. I am more concerned about the gap between the bolt and the barrel - in a limited space of the BMP / tank / car / helicopter cockpit, this gap can catch something, like a folding butt, however (God forbid to catch a rope and not notice it when jumping out of transport)
        In general, I think the folding side butt for this PP is unsuccessful - it would be better to slide it out of the case, with such a back part of the PP it would be possible to make a normal butt plate and it would not cling to any garbage.
    3. jojick
      jojick 23 August 2019 01: 10
      0
      This is the same guy who will show you ten times! !you! how does the shutter of the ejection window open on the heiress of AR-10, and at the same time never - how does the curtain close on the PC and its heirs of the same purpose [pff, they still saw, they know, nothing interesting]?
      Well then, I probably won’t watch.
  5. vomag
    vomag 21 August 2019 06: 38
    +4
    Well, I don’t know .. a very controversial replacement ..
  6. Old tanker
    Old tanker 21 August 2019 06: 47
    +16
    Wearable ARMY stock laughing laughing
    author zhzhot! lol

    In fact, NAZ is a wearable emergency reserve.

    Picatinny rail and kit on them with weapons from NAZ ?! fool
    author zhzhot laughing
  7. V1er
    V1er 21 August 2019 06: 51
    +8
    Ksenia is being replaced by MA.


    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 07: 36
      +3
      Honestly, I did not like AM, it does not feel the domestic weapons school.
      Compared to Ksenia, it is equipped with additional dirt collectors on the forend and butt, a grater from a long picatinny rail (which will wipe holes on your uniform with a long machine gun) and brilliant little windows in the store where you need to shine to see something (why the windows were made recessed , and not flush with the store’s case, there’s also a great secret, probably to collect even more dirt and a flashlight would be needed to at least see something).
      And only the fuse and handle were pleasant.
      1. V1er
        V1er 21 August 2019 07: 55
        +3
        Take AM. Remove all slats and dirt collectors. Lighten as much as possible due to composite materials. 20 round magazine lightweight. Two horns. Here is the replacement of Ksenia.
      2. jojick
        jojick 23 August 2019 01: 14
        0
        What, AK-12, show you to roll over in bed, His Majesty's butt and forend?
  8. Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Obi-Wan Kenobi 21 August 2019 06: 58
    +1
    Interestingly, how does the PP-2000 differ from the AEK-919?
    Or is it just someone else's lobby?
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 16: 11
      +4
      Three differences:
      1) AEK-919 Makarovsky cartridge
      2) AEK-919 shoots from the open shutter (rear sear)
      3) AEK-919 is heavier
  9. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 21 August 2019 07: 10
    +9
    Still, the pilot will not have to conduct a combined arms battle, especially at long distances. First of all, a pilot needs a weapon for self-defense in close combat.

    Who knows what the topography will be at the landing site? What to do with PP in an open field? The pursuit group begins to press alone from a much greater distance, with the PP, it will not work to snap back in response - only kick for cover. And close combat for a loner means that he has already been surrounded. The PP has only one advantage - it is easier to run with it, but as a means of fire suppression of pursuit to break the distance, it is "nothing". Already settled in a parallel news on this topic.
    1. Sergey_G_M
      Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 07: 56
      +2
      There are several advantages of PP:
      1) PP is better than a gun and you can use it right away like a gun
      2) PP is directly at the pilot and there is no need to rummage in a chair and get an automatic machine from there, there may not be time for this, but you can immediately make legs
      And since the machine gun is of course better than anyone who argues, only the armament of the pilot is always a compromise
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 21 August 2019 09: 40
        +4
        He will be in the box, and the pilots will "just in case" keep Stechkin with them if there is absolutely no time to rummage.
        1. Sergey_G_M
          Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 09: 51
          0
          From the article:
          "In some cases, the pilot has to engage in combat with the enemy immediately after landing by parachute, and sometimes even while in the air. That is, the combat pilot must be able to quickly get to the weapon. That is why in Syria, during combat missions, pilots took and additional firearms - Stechkin or Makarov pistols, which, together with spare magazines, could be placed in the pockets of a vest. "
          As I understand it, they want the pilot to be directly with the pilot.
          1. g1washntwn
            g1washntwn 21 August 2019 10: 18
            +1
            At unloading is not an option, in the cockpit for control and so the place is not particularly. If you just dodge and do it on an elastic band like mittens so that the PP can be pulled out of the pack into the hands while the parachute descends. Although this way and that only if from a great height right on the barmaley blows.
      2. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 21 August 2019 09: 43
        +2
        Then, probably, it is necessary to equip the pilot with both this software and a large, full-fledged automatic machine in the bowels of the seat.

        I was able to find a chair and take a machine gun - I took and threw the PP. Could not - run away with the PP.
        1. Sergey_G_M
          Sergey_G_M 21 August 2019 09: 55
          0
          Well enough has already been developed)))
          So we are up to a couple of mines, a few grenades, body armor, a sapper blade and many more interesting things in the pilot's seat we will find a place)))
          1. garri-lin
            garri-lin 21 August 2019 11: 00
            +2
            But a couple of mines are not a hindrance. Chasers cut off. Anyone running into a surprise will be more careful and speed will be reduced.
            1. Den717
              Den717 21 August 2019 11: 48
              +2
              Quote: garri-lin
              But a couple of mines are not a hindrance.

              In general, it must be borne in mind that a pilot alone, with a maximum of two, will have to act for some time on the territory occupied by the enemy. And this enemy will extinguish it from distances of 400 meters or more, and the pilot will be able to snap back no further than from 100. Therefore, the AKSU may be a bit heavy, but the PP-2000 does not pull clearly. And given that the pilot’s shooting training is not specialized, then firing at extreme distances will not be the strongest side of his defense. And, in principle, some means of mining the escape routes, at least smoke, would probably be very appropriate. I am more inclined to duplicate AKSU by some Boa constrictor.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 21 August 2019 11: 58
                +3
                A few years ago Navo was a series of articles on new mines. Appropriate was mentioned there. Alas, I do not remember the name. Just designed to cover the paths. It was developed by order of military intelligence. The biggest plus is not heavy. About a kilogram. A pair of pieces will be enough.
            2. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 21 August 2019 11: 53
              +2
              + if the pursuit in transport, and probably beat the wheels with a mine, it’s easier to get away.
              POM-3 pieces 3, so that 1 is left at the landing site and two are taken to cut off the pursuit at the exit. Anything is better than dragging a full-fledged cookie for the same.
              1. Den717
                Den717 21 August 2019 12: 01
                +1
                I hope that completing NAZ, including weapons, the opinion of the pilots was taken into account and checked in the field. laughing
                1. g1washntwn
                  g1washntwn 21 August 2019 12: 09
                  +3
                  Ask what they ask, Yes ktozh give them? And so, yes, the generals cannot take a step without the advice of a soldier ... As one activist used to say in our baht: Do you expect me to answer a question? Well, here's the order for you! smile
                  1. Den717
                    Den717 21 August 2019 12: 22
                    +1
                    Quote: g1washntwn
                    And so, yes, the generals cannot take a step without the advice of a soldier ...

                    Our regiment somehow experienced new body armor. The company lived in them from morning to evening, a month, if not more. Then everything, even Uzbeks with Tajiks, filled out questionnaires, and some non-military persons read all this and asked again that they could not read it. By the way, the generals are very interested in the success of the soldiers. I personally know one general who delayed two years before school and did not buzz that he had wasted time.
              2. garri-lin
                garri-lin 21 August 2019 13: 15
                0
                Right Medallion had in mind. A good mine to block the path.
            3. jojick
              jojick 23 August 2019 01: 18
              0
              But a couple of mines are not a hindrance. Chasers cut off. Anyone running into a surprise will be more careful and speed will be reduced.


              Preferably with an additional radio detonator and remote control. The amount of greenery in the underwear of hot guys will noticeably increase. Or it’s become stronger to turn into a bomb, but this is already too much.
              1. garri-lin
                garri-lin 23 August 2019 02: 56
                0
                The radio detonator and remote are too complicated. The pilot must hide and get to the evacuation point as stealthily as possible. If it is discovered and the pursuit begins, then you need to run away cutting off the chase and not wait for the enemy with a radio bomb. In the mountains and on very rough terrain, you can mine the path along which you passed. Most likely the pursuers will follow the same path and the mine will delay them. Either they will find and spend time on mine clearance, or they will undermine and spend time on the wounded. And the pilot will run away all this time.
          2. mark1
            mark1 21 August 2019 12: 59
            +3
            The most important thing is that the chair would be on electric wheels, and the barrel would stick out of the armor plate (I hope she is on the chair) from the loophole (for any taste of the customer.)
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 21 August 2019 13: 31
              +2
              Quote: mark1
              The most important thing is that the chair would be on electric wheels, and the barrel would stick out of the armor plate (I hope she is on the chair) from the loophole (for any taste of the customer.)

              Wheels - the last century. The seat must have a rotor and a tail rotor! Well, or a couple of coaxial rotors. smile
              1. mark1
                mark1 21 August 2019 13: 57
                +1
                Quote: Alexey RA
                The seat must have a rotor and a tail rotor! Well, or a couple of coaxial rotors.

                Well, or on an extreme four legs, like a robomule. winked
          3. Sancho_SP
            Sancho_SP 21 August 2019 17: 31
            0
            Mines in and of themselves are not very safe in flight and during firing ..

            and the rest there is a blade there, grenades, as experience has shown, are also taken with you, helicopter pilots have bulletproof vests ..

            So what is it up to?)

            We cannot put both an automatic machine and a heavy pistol / PP at the same time for bureaucratic reasons.
  10. Whowhy
    Whowhy 21 August 2019 07: 42
    +1
    "Kashtan" is more compact and its accuracy is better and there is a silencer (which is very important in enemy territory) .... request
  11. V1er
    V1er 21 August 2019 07: 52
    -1
    Quote: g1washntwn
    What to do with PP in a clean field?

    For example, try to develop such an option. SR-3 “Whirlwind. Firing range up to 200. But already the weight will be, like Ksenia.
  12. K-50
    K-50 21 August 2019 07: 54
    +2
    Also, compact and light weapons are better suited for military operations in urban environments.

    Interestingly, where does the urban battlefield conditions and the catapulted pilot? what
    Taking into account the fact that even barmaley use means of personal body armor, replacing the "Ksenia" with the PP-2000 is not the option that a pilot needs in case of fire contact with the enemy.
    1. Avior
      Avior 21 August 2019 08: 09
      +1
      Theoretically, it can get into development.
      Like McCain.
      But it’s not very likely, and in the city you need to hide, and not fight
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 21 August 2019 09: 51
        0
        Theoretically, most often into water, the area of ​​water on Earth is larger, and on land the cities are much less than 1% of the total area, 60% are steppes, pastures, deserts, glaciers (that is, space with a minimum of shelters), the rest is mountains and forest where else you can move behind shelters and PP pays off. The regions are excellent, but the chance to plop right into the hands of the milita needs to be earned, like John.
  13. Avior
    Avior 21 August 2019 08: 20
    -1
    The weight of the cartridge is 5,45 * 39 and 9 mm of steam is almost the same, about 11 grams, but the cartridge is 9 mm and stores under it are more compact.
    As I understand it, when shooting, Aksu heats up quickly and severely and loses range characteristics.
    If so, it is unlikely to be suitable for the self-defense of pilots.
    1. zadorin1974
      zadorin1974 21 August 2019 09: 54
      +5
      Kind time Sergey. Sam used Ksenia for a long time. Wonderful machine. Accuracy and range, penetration ability, the presence of several types of ammunition, at least everything suited me. At the expense of heating the barrel and spitting, if a person is waist-high, you can’t help him It’s possible to overheat the AKM, it’s always fired from Ksenia single-handedly (only in the standings with cut-off lines) this is not PKM. At the expense of PP 2000, we have re-equipped OVoshnikov with them, of course, it’s wonderful for the city (to run in the car and on floors). But as for a cross at a molting downed the pilot had big doubts. During the Second World War, the armament of rifle platoons, as in the same reconnaissance groups, was always mixed (PPSh, PPS and Mosin carbines). There were just cases when the Germans armed with Mausers clamped in the open and shot our armed some PP.
      1. Avior
        Avior 21 August 2019 10: 18
        +1
        Yes, this may be, the relief is different. Everything happens in war. But one against the group, if he did not hide, in any case there are few chances.
        Yes, and a small group against a large enemy, a rifle or two will not really help, this is me about your example.
        You can’t shoot everyone.
        In a clean field there is no chance if the enemy has trunks of normal length, and if they are not configured to take you prisoner.
        But already discussed. Two hundred meters - for most types of terrain, the distance is sufficient to try to leave, using some kind of shelter.
        The fleeing pilot does not make sense to shoot solo on the go, he will not scare anyone like that, not to mention the fact that he is most likely a gunner and shoots out of breath on the run. It lays down to shoot solitary-surrounded.
        Therefore, it is natural for him to escape as quickly as possible, shoot aimlessly on the go without sparing the ammunition in the hope that the enemy will lag behind, and will give him the opportunity to tear himself away.
        The risk is great, but there is nothing to lose.
        At a long distance, such tactics will not have an effect, therefore, PP is enough, especially since the destructive power of the cartridge remains at a greater distance.

        hi
        1. g1washntwn
          g1washntwn 21 August 2019 14: 22
          +2
          Quote: Avior
          Therefore, the natural way out for him is to run as fast as possible, shoot aimlessly on the go without sparing ammunition in the hope that the enemy will lag behind, and will give the opportunity to break away from him.

          Well, equip pilots with Chinese firecrackers with the sound of a .357 shot or with hand rattles and train pilots only for a marathon and sprint with masking skills.

          For you again, already in this topic:
          PP in the hands of the pilot is a weapon of self-defense, but it is effective only at a distance of up to 50 m (almost exclusively at point-blank range). That is, it is the same Stechkin, but with several bonuses. In addition to close defensive combat, he is good for nothing, close combat is the last thing a loner will take, that is PP - weapon of "last chance" without other tactical options.
          1. Avior
            Avior 21 August 2019 14: 52
            0
            Yes, I read your idea of ​​supplying the pilot with mines to protect against pursuers.
            Very fresh. You can add more marine to him in the kit, suddenly they will chase him through the river.
            Now firecrackers. What will happen next?
            1. zadorin1974
              zadorin1974 21 August 2019 16: 01
              0
              Sergey.At the expense of a sea mine, the offset))))) But seriously, all this is a crap. A pistol, an automatic machine gun, a machine-gun from amers, after firing the seat, the pilot receives a wing parachute, after which he can plan for several dozen under good conditions kilometers (he dabbled in a glider and twice on a D-6 he planted a maize) we have a rescue system (parachute) with an ordinary dome (where he jumped there and landed).
              1. zadorin1974
                zadorin1974 21 August 2019 16: 04
                0
                I couldn’t insert right away. So the longer you are in the air, the less you have to wave the trunk.
              2. Avior
                Avior 21 August 2019 16: 21
                0
                I am not opposed to the fact that there is no guarantee, PP is only to increase the chances, just in case of emergency, other rescue measures, such as a rescue group being ready during flights with a cover, this does not cancel.
                As for the parachute wing, then if you can reach your own on it, it’s good if you just fly away from the place of the fall of the aircraft - no doubt the rescue team will still fly, but where you land is unknown.
                The parachute does not fly very fast, after him a group in jeeps on the ground can follow.
                But in principle, also a chance.
                It's just that APS or PM are obviously of little use for this purpose, Aksu could be used even with more weight, if he would allow firing for a long time.
                I do not believe in the ability of one pilot to fight and defeat a group of persecutors.
                1. zadorin1974
                  zadorin1974 21 August 2019 16: 33
                  0
                  At the expense of the flight speed of Sergey’s wing, you’re in vain. Average systems give out 12-16 m / s in the horizontal plane. Despite the fact that the wing of the road does not need (even a jeep needs direction))))).
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 21 August 2019 16: 39
                    +1
                    I am not very familiar with such parachutes. 50 km per hour, however super speed.
                    And the pilot is unlikely to be a paratrooper athlete.
                    But I will not argue, this is also an option.
                    In principle, a pilot on such a parachute can choose a place that is difficult to access from the ground, or where it is convenient to hide if there is one, and this is also a chance for survival.
                2. garri-lin
                  garri-lin 21 August 2019 16: 59
                  +1
                  VAfgann was the case when a Su25 pilot shot down over a village destroyed more than a dozen pursuers. He died from a grenade launcher shot. A brave and proactive soldier with adequate weapons is a difficult target.
                  1. Avior
                    Avior 21 August 2019 17: 11
                    +1
                    A single case is not a system.
                    Moreover, this did not save him, as you write.
                    And we are considering the possibility of salvation.
                    One pilot costs more than a dozen foot soldiers, especially fighters, to the state.
                    It’s not his thing to lead a ground battle
                    1. garri-lin
                      garri-lin 21 August 2019 17: 25
                      0
                      So all the more it should be equipped with the most effective weapons. And provide means of disguise. Moreover, precedents are certainly not one or two but more. In addition to army units, the search for downed pilots is often carried out by: security agencies, the militia, and the local population. Here you can fight off them. Less trained, less motivated and disciplined. By the way, at the price of training the infantryman to the pilot is not one in ten but rather one in a hundred or even more.
                      1. Avior
                        Avior 21 August 2019 17: 36
                        0
                        I wrote, more expensive.
                        If local law enforcement officials associate the movements, then it is a matter of time before others arrive.
                        I understood you correctly; do you think that a pilot needs to be trained and instructed to destroy a group of persecutors?
                      2. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 21 August 2019 17: 59
                        0
                        Definitely yes. But!!! The pilot should do this only if he cannot hide or secretly get away from pursuit. There must also be a psychological preparation of pilots for such battles. The pursuit group can be different. The pilot also needs to be taught to distinguish who is pursuing him. If this is the militia or the local population, then a couple of corpses and a few wounded may well force them to abandon pursuit and the pilot will be able to "get lost".
                      3. Avior
                        Avior 21 August 2019 21: 48
                        0
                        Or vice versa, the desire to avenge Brother Said.
                        Do you think it’s easy to prepare a person so that he shoots an armed group, but remains alive?
                        Do you need to recruit cadets in flight schools in special forces?
                        And even then, special forces need to be trained constantly, and the pilot has flight training in the foreground, which is never enough.
                        But what if he got in touch with the peasants, surrounded by their crowd, at that time the prepared ones arrived?
                        What's next?
                      4. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 21 August 2019 22: 39
                        0
                        So just the same, most often the local population discovers a pilot. And informs search groups about the location. What other options can a discovered pilot have? Give up? Shoot himself? If the pilot is found, the most important thing is to break away from the pursuit, get lost, confuse the pursuers and try to get to the evacuation point or wait for the evacuation having called the group in its coordinates. He has no choice to join the battle or not. It was for him that the enemy decided to find him. And the pilot must be adequately armed for such a battle. And to shoot out a group of pursuers from an ambush it does not need to be a commando. You just need to be prepared for this. And psychological as well.
                      5. Avior
                        Avior 21 August 2019 23: 06
                        0
                        So fight or break away and hide?
                        Decide somehow.
                        And to shoot out a group of pursuers from an ambush is far from every force can do it, they don’t run, hugging each other tightly, they will stretch both in chain and in depth.
                        On the other hand, the peasants may have more ground combat experience than the pilot, there the war is constantly
                      6. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 21 August 2019 23: 29
                        0
                        Re-read my posts. Run away and hide as long as possible. Wait for the evacuation group or move to the evacuation point. You can delay the clash of the PDA for longer. But if it is impossible to do otherwise, the pilot must be ready for battle. Both in terms of weapons and training of weapons and moral readiness to shoot people without hesitation and without doubt. The fired persecution group usually regroups, lies down so as not to fall under the bullets. A tired fugitive needs rest. Such an ambush, when there is no strength left to run away, will allow you to catch your breath and take a breath. Well after a couple of lines to run on. And if the group is small, you can try to destroy it by completely fine-tuning several ambushes in a row. The pilot must be prepared for this. And you need to learn such wisdom not in parallel with flight training, but at the end. In the breaks between a summer job.
                      7. Avior
                        Avior 22 August 2019 09: 32
                        0
                        If the fugitive lies down, the group will first surround him.
                        And after that, he has no chance, he can not fight in all directions.
                        And in order to fight alone with a group, he must have a very high level of combat training, not in his spare time from basic training
                      8. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 22 August 2019 11: 02
                        0
                        And if he has already run 10 km at a trot and can’t move forward, he can’t move a step? Then what to do? Yes, and you can lie in different ways. To surround the time you need. And if the pilot takes 10 minutes to catch his breath, eats a chocolate bar and spends a clip on his pursuers, then it will be difficult to get around it during this time. And the pilot caught his breath and ran on. The weapon should allow not to let the pursuers to close range and not to shoot the shooter when shooting.
                      9. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 21 August 2019 22: 44
                        0
                        On revenge for brother Said, this is also twofold. It completely depends on the temperament of the pursuers. Each group has a leader. And if the leader is disabled, then the rest are lost. Kill the brother of the leader, the search will intensify. Ubes the leader and the group will slow down. Khan will not catch anyone. What is there according to statistics with prisoner pilots doing? And they cut the throat and burn it alive. It is better to try to fight back or die.
                      10. Avior
                        Avior 21 August 2019 23: 07
                        0
                        If they’re killed and caught, they’ll probably cut him
                      11. garri-lin
                        garri-lin 21 August 2019 23: 30
                        0
                        A captured pilot is most often a victim.
              3. Denimax
                Denimax 21 August 2019 17: 36
                0
                In the next topic, we are talking about flying vehicles. Already flew on rigid wings with model turbojet engines. Ideally, you need to catapult with just such a satchel. The enemy’s embarrassment will be provided, like they shot down, but he flew away anyway.)))
                1. zadorin1974
                  zadorin1974 21 August 2019 17: 50
                  +1
                  Denimax. The cockpit of a modern airplane (we don’t take transporters and strategists) has limited space. So there’s nowhere to cram a full-size machine. Maybe in the future a cockpit will shoot from a damaged airplane and fly to its airfield on its own. Well, for now, a bomber and a fighter escort. The fighter became bored and he performs several aerobatics. Calls a bomber and asks, well, can you do it? After some time, did you see the bomber and can you? I just went to the toilet, I smoked a cigarette and coffee drank with the rear shooter.
            2. g1washntwn
              g1washntwn 22 August 2019 09: 24
              0
              Quote: Avior
              What will happen next?

              Perhaps it will, unlike your only option of running away with empty-shot ammunition. But I already do not see the point to explain to you. Run and shoot in the air, maybe they will leave you behind, including with comments.
  14. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
    SERGEY SERGEEVICS 21 August 2019 08: 36
    +2
    In the civilian departure zone, patrolling with the PP-2000 is still somehow possible, here the principle will not play a greater role, which is in service with the airborne forces. But in combat sorties, here the PP-2000 is not the best option for replacing the AK.
  15. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 21 August 2019 08: 50
    +3
    PP-2000, a good "machine", perfectly balanced, and shoots from a CLOSED SHUTTER!
    Stechkin is worse in any way, and not too easy ... As for the muffler, I would have set it for pilots. It’s not ideal, but the sound will greatly reduce that can increase the pilot’s survival ... He needs to keep quiet, and not pretend to be a mixture of Rambo and Leon ...
    1. Avior
      Avior 21 August 2019 08: 59
      +2
      The muffler reduces the firing range, but it is not very large at the PP.
      1. Mountain shooter
        Mountain shooter 21 August 2019 11: 28
        0
        When it is necessary to quietly "mow" the patrol, hiding in the bushes, fire is opened to kill, you see the color of your eyes.
        1. Avior
          Avior 21 August 2019 12: 29
          +2
          If the pilot's patrol does not see, then it does not need to be touched.
          And if he sees, then what's the difference, how much noise.
          A pilot is not a saboteur on a mission.
  16. Slon1978
    Slon1978 21 August 2019 09: 18
    +3
    One of the arguments for replacing the AKS-74U in the article indicates the inability of the pilot to use it quickly, including while still in the air by parachute. I was surprised by this argument. So the PP-2000 with its 9x19 and sighting range of 100 meters in the air is more convenient to use? That is, you can shoot, but the truth is useless. I also smiled about the collimator sight on the PP-2000. This is, of course, a strong argument in favor of how to shoot without a collimator at 50 meters .... If it has already come to a shootout on the ground for a pilot, then it is better to have an almost full-fledged AKS-74U machine gun than this angular and useless one. PP-2000 is suitable only for police officers at the airport to wear, bailiffs, and the FSIN escorts as a replacement for PM. Even the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs at road posts, he will not work.
    1. 3danimal
      3danimal 25 August 2019 06: 00
      0
      Compare the aiming speed and the convenience of transferring fire with a collimator (at distances of 50-100m) and without it. The difference is additional chances to survive.
      Why is this software not suitable for road posts? It's about the cartridge 7n31, with an initial speed of 600 m / s, a flat trajectory and good armor penetration.
  17. garri-lin
    garri-lin 21 August 2019 11: 11
    +1
    It is high time to concern itself with the issue of arming the flight crew. There is a cartridge 9 × 21 there is a good gun school. Make an automatic rifle. So that he folded in half along the trunk and shot quietly. So that the cut-off of 3 rounds was. LTSU integrated with the ampouled battery. Just want to.
  18. English tarantas
    English tarantas 21 August 2019 11: 59
    +3
    The decision to modernize the NAZ - a portable army supply of pilots piloting combat aircraft was made by the country's military leadership based on the results of the Russian Air Force operation in Syria.

    It is interesting what happened in Syria to the videoconferencing system if no one has changed anything in 10 years of Afghanistan. And who thought of it for the sake of 1.5 kg of weapon weight and less by 14 cm in length, shorten the battle distance for the pilot by almost 3 times. Given the modern equipment of the militants, it is necessary not to make armor-piercing ones for 9mm, but 5,45 expansive ones. Yes, Ksyusha overheats and spits, far from the most convenient for shooting, but the enemy’s ammunition can also be replenished, the car is no less reliable than the AK, and the pilot is not a police special forces, he needs a weapon equal to that used by the enemy, and if you shoot, then shoot far.
    PS NAZ - wearable emergency stock
    1. Avior
      Avior 21 August 2019 15: 00
      +2
      I think this is after the incident with Roman Filipov, who was shooting back from militants from the APS and blew himself up with a grenade so as not to be captured.
      1. sh3roman
        sh3roman 24 August 2019 20: 25
        0
        What is interesting then with aps happened? Who knows the thread?
  19. beeper
    beeper 21 August 2019 14: 57
    +2
    Any business starts with a concept, with a systematic approach - if everything is thought out in advance as much as possible, every now and then it will "burn out", and if it is "not thought out", then often, it’s gone!
    So in this case, with the replacement of weapons for the self-defense of pilots!
    First, it is necessary to develop a realistic concept of the design of such a weapon and the tactics of its use, as well as a program for the appropriate training of pilots - the volume of training and criteria for assessing their readiness to effectively conduct an "air-ground" battle after a parachute jump, and then "fence a garden"!
    And then, in my opinion, it turns out a change of "sewn for soap" -PP-2000 is certainly not suitable for the self-defense of downed pilots according to the criteria "justifications" voiced in the Article.
    It is clear that this critical comment of mine (now according to the "product" of the Tula gunsmiths) comment can be deleted by the admins in the trash, but, nevertheless, I cannot, for the umpteenth time, keep silent - I will speak out - after all, by and large, our lives Russian pilots are more expensive than some of my "offensive sediments."
    First of all. To "be at hand" for the ejected pilot (and for a member of the tank crew, like a tanker, I will put in a word smile ) such a PP should initially be as close and convenient as possible to these very hands - it should be placed somewhere on the chest, while adhering to the torso as much as possible, that is, it should be, literally, "flexible", non-traumatic, "unsecured" and not burdensome (be "thin" and "thin", compact and does not interfere with the functional movements of the pilot during his combat work in the cockpit) during storage and wearing! But, at the beginning of use, it becomes "tough" and functionally comfortable in the hands of the shooter!
    In principle, there is nothing constructively unrealizable, I don’t see, of course, the creation of such a PP model will require a painstaking and thorough study of the structure and design, but you can’t easily pull a fish out of the pond, thinking and lazy (although, as you see, it happens that laziness -engine of progress! winked ) to the designer of the middle hand it will be quite possible - the successful result of such work is worth it! yes

    Secondly. The design of the barrel of such a PP should allow continuous, without "spitting" - a decrease in ballistic properties, heap fire at an aiming distance of 100 m with all the wearable stock of cartridges, that is, intensive heat removal and heat resistance of the barrel bore should be provided, which can be achieved by lining (yes, at least the same "stellite") of a volumetric "bar" of light alloy, functionally included in the design of the sliding parts of the automation (as discussed in paragraph three).

    Thirdly. The automation system of such a PP chambered for the Para 9x19 cartridge and its modifications (including "sighting-incendiary" - the oppressive psychological impact on the enemy should not be neglected!), In my opinion, should be designed with a "short barrel stroke" and a striker trigger (for more reliable operation of the PP, partially releasing the energy of the spring in the reel and switching from a single fire to an automatic transverse pin in the area of ​​the trigger guard, under the "firing finger"). The "barrel-bolt" firing unit will perceive the main loads when fired and accumulate energy for the reload cycle, moving inside a reinforced "hinged" body made of high-strength lightweight composite. The system for feeding cartridges can be any, up to "springless (which is very desirable for long-term storage of weapons fully equipped with ammunition)" - if only it would be convenient to reload with any hand and in any position!

    Fourth. The design of such a PP should be "ultimate (the designers understood me, but for all the others, it is deployed extremely lightweight and without the usual, multiple, safety margins, designed at the ultimate strength, if only to provide, expedient for the survival of pilots, a minimum" guaranteed shot ") "- this, together with the use of the best, lightest and most durable materials, will make it possible to create a compact and lightweight weapon for aircraft crews, the salvation of which pays for any these costs!

    PS The sight should be mechanical, the most primitive and small-sized - for a distance of 100-200 meters. For "advanced shooting (by exposing the barrel from behind cover or raising it above oneself, tightly pressed to the ground)", there must be a place for mounting a small-sized remote sight (with a thermal imaging function in perspective) with a target and an aiming mark displayed on any "monitor" - for example, the "smart glasses" of the fleeing pilot, showing him the "wire-tangled" in the grass, "thorns" and stretch marks of mines, and, preferably, the mines themselves on the way ...

    PPS Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov answered the interviewer the question of how he sees the future of small arms, in the spirit that it would be better to die with him, because whenever he voices his vision of prospects, it’s in his weapons immediately Americans and Israel are selling, but, alas, not domestic gunsmiths ...
    I’m not MikhTim and I’m far from all of you (and I don’t look with the same optimism “tomorrow”), so even though I am “sharing my thoughts” I am pushing on the thoughts of our Russians, Russian designers, because even if the smart ones do it first. zakordonniki ", then domestic" long-term construction workers ", vollens-nolens, will have to do the same to themselves, so as not to graze the rear! winked
  20. senima56
    senima56 21 August 2019 15: 16
    -1
    It was high time! 2,7 kg - 1,4 kg = 1,3 kg! You can take a few "extra" shops or grenades!
  21. Seergey
    Seergey 21 August 2019 16: 12
    +2
    The main arguments in favor of the innovation are not given, for example, the dimensions of the new when the butt is folded practically do not differ from the AKS-74U in the same way when folded, despite the fact that the new TTX is much worse than that of the AKS-74U.
  22. Doliva63
    Doliva63 21 August 2019 20: 21
    0
    Full scales! There is nothing better than the AKS-74U for flyers. Small, lightweight, but you can shoot the UKS for AKMS excellently from it - try it with the PP!
  23. bk0010
    bk0010 21 August 2019 22: 35
    +2
    You fantasize - they will be afraid of knocking down pilots: whether the bomb will hit or not - another question, but if you kill him, he, the murderer, will go down by parachute, mine everything around, shoot the survivors and fly away with his parachute (or a hoverboard from a neighboring topic that he used instead parachute) to his location.
    1. Avior
      Avior 21 August 2019 23: 11
      -1
      Yeah. Such a pilot drew that if he was not given an airplane, the enemy would be more injured laughing
  24. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 22 August 2019 02: 08
    0
    A m. is it better to make the trigger guard detachable on the loop?
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. 3danimal
    3danimal 25 August 2019 05: 55
    0
    The problem of "Ksenia" is that the effective range is poorly realized due to low sighting. Unless, on a pedestrian column of the enemy)
    With fire bursts - poor stability, fast overheating.
    It was high time to find a replacement.
  28. Stormsdruttin
    Stormsdruttin 26 August 2019 10: 08
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    The seat must have a rotor and a tail rotor! Well, or a couple of coaxial rotors.

    Something similar was already:
    http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_rus/kaman_ksa-100-r.html
    Did not stick.
  29. Filxnumx
    Filxnumx 30 August 2019 23: 16
    0
    "wearable army reserve"
    in aviation it is called differently: wearable emergency stock.
  30. Karabas
    Karabas 2 October 2019 11: 42
    0
    This is not bad if true. However, I still express my opinion about the tactics of using people in the videoconferencing. In my opinion, this is an outdated doctrine. Ideally, a pilot in an armored, highly protected aircraft controls a swarm of UAVs. No need to write that this is sci-fi, a dry robot has already done. Accordingly, pilot training should change fundamentally. Focus on tactical planning and interaction with robots. In case of threat to life-health, retreat, for regrouping, replenishing robots and changing tactical components.
  31. saygon66
    saygon66 26 October 2019 22: 49
    0
    -Interesting "machine"! Initially there were many different additions ... A permanent stock, a silencer, and also a replacement of the stock with a store of increased capacity ...
  32. Irbenwolf
    Irbenwolf 12 November 2019 13: 47
    0
    Well, why do all modern designs look stuck in rubbish?
  33. Put__NIK
    Put__NIK 21 August 2021 16: 26
    +1
    Hmm. It's hard to believe that after our pilots were shot down, such crap could have been approved by our flyers. Crap mosquitoes scare away. The downed plane and the airborne pilot is a target and therefore they will chase him upon landing, which means that the pilot must have that to start shooting enemies from the top. Something long-range and penetrating through the iron of the machine. The less it comes to the place of its fall, the more chances it will come off. Well, a good rebuff even in the air will reduce the ardor of the pursuers, because no one wants to die.