Companies from China and the EU to jointly build a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Europe

China decided to support the European Union in the construction of the Trans-Caspian gas pipeline. A consortium of companies and the EU and China expressed their willingness to implement a high-profile project that could change the position of countries whose borders include the Caspian Sea basin.

A consortium of European and Chinese companies, including Edison Technologies GmbH, MMEC Mannesmann GmbH, Air Liquide Global E&C Solutions (EU), together with SINOPEC Engineering Group (PRC), has expressed a desire to build a 300 km underwater pipeline. It provides for the supply of 30 billion cubic meters of gas annually for 30 years. This was announced following a meeting of representatives of the consortium with the deputy chairman of the Cabinet of Ministers of Turkmenistan for oil and gas Myratgeldi Meredov and adviser to the president of the country on oil and gas issues Yagshigeldy Kakaev.

As part of the project, in addition to laying the pipeline, the consortium is ready to design and build the necessary infrastructure, including gas treatment plants and compression stations. Also, companies will drill the required number of turnkey gas wells.

Europe will become the main client of gas that can go from Turkmenistan along a new potential route. She is interested in an alternative to Russian and Iranian gas, as it diversifies supplies, makes the EU less dependent on old suppliers and helps bring down prices.

Iran and Russia against

In turn, Iran is actively opposing the laying of the Trans-Caspian gas pipeline. During the first Caspian Economic Forum, held recently in Turkmenistan, a representative of the Islamic Republic criticized possible construction.

The construction of a gas pipeline through the Caspian Sea can cause severe damage to the ecology of the region ... Iran opposes its construction

Behruz Namdari of the National Iranian Gas Company said: he quotes his words RIA News.

Expressing this opinion, the Iranian invited the conference participants to use Iran’s infrastructure for gas supplies. A little earlier, Russia also spoke out against the Trans-Caspian pipeline in the person of the first deputy head of the apparatus of the Russian government Sergei Prikhodko. The Russian representative also drew attention to the unique ecosystem of the sea. The laying of a gas pipeline, he said, could damage it, and maintaining priority is "any hypothetical economic projects."

According to the rules for laying gas pipelines along the bottom of the Caspian Sea of ​​Turkmenistan, only the consent of Azerbaijan will be required.

Comments

[Honest Citizen]

According to the rules for laying gas pipelines along the bottom of the Caspian Sea of ​​Turkmenistan, only the consent of Azerbaijan will be required.

It's time in Turkmenistan to do the Maidan, only under a different direction ...
Politics, such a policy ...

[Svarog]

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

[Honest Citizen]

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

It has long been clear that there are no "Friends" in politics that are serious. There are only interests. China has indicated its interest.
Russians have a different mentality. We are fine when the last shirt off ... And the scoundrels use this ...

[Nycomed]

So today I suggested that I don’t take off my shirt twice, but use the world market, the result: I got a bunch of minuses.

[Honest Citizen]

Well, this is from the "populists" ... I noticed a long time ago that people are very "greedy" for the "right words". for which they invented all kinds of speechwriters.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Nycomed

So today I suggested twice not to take off my shirt,

You don’t take off your shirt, it’s starting to get colder. Plus for your humor.

[Nycomed]

Thank you, dear!

[Vlad.by]

So today I suggested that I don’t take off my shirt twice, but use the world market, the result: I got a bunch of minuses. request

It’s easier to buy 15-20 billion cubic meters on the vine, even at a slightly higher price. And the project will close without starting. And it’s better to wait for the start of financing, the first purchases of pipes, the construction of coastal structures, and then buy up.
T.S. for edification ...
It is a pity, of course, that Europe will first want to sign a binding agreement with Turkmenistan before construction. But, there is something to think about, with whom in Turkmenistan "to sleep" with this question.
I’m sure they’ll decide how to.

[Nycomed]

All this, of course, can be done. And to agree with the Turkmens and with Azerbaijan. But the point is not in them. The EU will not allow Russia’s share in gas imports to exceed a certain level. Diversification - and that’s it.

[APASUS]

Quote: Vlad.by

It’s easier to buy 15-20 billion cubic meters on the vine, even at a slightly higher price. And the project will close without starting. And it’s better to wait for the start of financing, the first purchases of pipes, the construction of coastal structures, and then buy up.
T.S. for edification ...
It is a pity, of course, that Europe will first want to sign a binding agreement with Turkmenistan before construction. But, there is something to think about, with whom in Turkmenistan "to sleep" with this question.
I’m sure they’ll decide how to.

There are more questions, more than answers.
For this laying, the status of the Caspian needs to be solved, and as I understand it, the border countries have not agreed. Again, it is not clear whether this project falls under the EU’s 3rd energy package, it’s too early to say about pumping 15-20 billion cubic meters of gas will rise 2 times.

[Vlad.by]

There are a lot of questions, but I think that for the “non-Russian” gas pipeline they will make an exception to the 3rd energy package.
And as for diversification - so if there is nothing to take at the normal price other than from Gazprom, only the Baltic and Polish limitrophies will buy expensive gas to diversify. None of the golden billion pay an extra cent. As if the Americans did not want to.

[DimDimych]

For this laying, the status of the Caspian needs to be solved, and as I understand it, the border countries have not agreed. Again, it is not clear whether this project falls under the EU’s 3rd energy package, it’s too early to say about pumping 15-20 billion cubic meters of gas will rise 2 times.

1. The new Caspian agreement does not contradict the construction of a gas pipeline:
15 nautical miles from shore territorial waters border
25 nautical miles from the coast will be allocated from the coast for fishing
The Caspian Sea remains in the common use of the parties, and the bottom and subsoil are divided by neighboring states into sections by agreement between them on the basis of international law. Shipping, fishing, scientific research and the laying of trunk pipelines are carried out according to the rules agreed by the parties. In particular, when laying a trunk pipeline along the bottom of the sea, only the consent of the party through whose sector the pipeline will run is required.[i] [/ i] The convention also contains a provision on preventing the presence of armed forces on the Caspian that are not owned by the parties to the treaty, and also defines the five Caspian states responsible for maintaining maritime security and managing its resources.
2 3rd EU energy package does not prohibit optionwhen the pipe is owned by one participant, as an example, Gazprom, and gas through it comes from another / Turkmenistan /. It is forbidden that only one has a pipe and gas, and that it forbids other suppliers to supply gas through its pipe.
3. Turkmenistan may pull the string of the gas pipeline to Azerbaijan,
If you look at the map, there is a common "border" between Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan, but the question is different: if you build LNG plants on the seashore in these countries, and transport gas on LNG tankers, the cost of this gas will be very high.
therefore, the ideal option is the construction of a gas pipeline between these countries, and then two options:
Azerbaijan - Georgia -Black Sea-Bulgaria
Azerbaijan - Georgia-Turkey-Bulgaria.
but there is one small problem:
1. There is no money for the investment program (investors can be found)
2. There are no specialists (they can be invited)
3. There are no special vessels - there are no pipe-layers, but this is the problem. Making their own "guts" is thin *, you can't drag them by air or by dragging them by land ... There is only one option - the Black Sea, the Sea of ​​Azov, the Volga-Don Canal, the Caspian Sea.
And, here, there is a question even in no way agree with the Russian Federation, but whether they will pass through this channel in terms of their dimensions and displacement ...
* If you make these vessels on the spot with the money of China and EU technologies, then this will require a lot of resources and time ... the cost of gas will increase
** Let's not forget the increase in the cost of gas due to the transit component, as well.
4. If you agree with the Russian Federation that the gas pipeline passes through the Russian Federation, then questions arise:
- where will he go
- who will invest this gas pipeline
- interest of the Russian Federation (supplier or transit)
- 3rd EU energy package
5. Who is stopping the Russian Federation from selling its gas on conditions when responsibility is transferred to the other side at the border of the Russian Federation (We still bear responsibility for our gas to the Ukraine / EU border).
In this way, the risks with the transit country are solved and transferred to the transit side and the buyer.
The EU will not like this, but our gas will dictate the terms of delivery to us.
According to this principle, Turkmenistan sells its gas to China. Transit risks are a burden on the Chinese side.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Vlad.by

It’s easier to buy 15-20 billion cubic meters on the vine, even at a slightly higher price. And the project will close without starting. And it’s better to wait for the start of financing, the first purchases of pipes, the construction of coastal structures, and then buy up.
T.S. for edification ...
It is a pity, of course, that Europe will first want to sign a binding agreement with Turkmenistan before construction.

Europe has almost built TANAP-SGC from Azerbaijan to Europe. But Azerbaijan is not able to fill it, and Azerbaijan, by the way, is already taking gas from Turkmenistan through Iran. But they want it directly, across the sea.

No need to buy gas to stop the construction of the gas pipeline:

Convention on the Legal Status of the Caspian Sea, signed by five states 1August 2 2018 g. suggests that the laying of pipelines along the bottom of the Caspian Sea may be blocked if any of the Caspian countries objects to this.

If Iran and Russia are against everything, it should not be built.

Although, given the grandmother who are spinning there, everything can be. But the official ban is already, in fact, there

[Normal ok]

Quote: Vlad.by

It’s easier to buy 15 -20 billion cubic meters at the root, even at a slightly higher price. And the project will close without starting.

So China has long bought up all of Turkmenistan’s gas. Late we realized.

[Maz]

it used to be removed and put on the altar of the fatherland for the last shirt, now they are taking off shirts from everyone who is nearby and dragging them to a Swiss bank or offshore

[WIKI]

Quote: Honest Citizen

Russians have a different mentality. It's normal for us when the last shirt off myself ...

And give it to such "comrades" as Timchenko, Rotenberg. In 2012, Gazprom "prepared a feasibility study for investments in Power of Siberia," and at the end of this document it was said: yes, this project may be of commercial importance, but only if the underlying gas price in it will be increased by 50–70%. They calculated the gas price in three different versions: it was tied to the oil price at $ 60, $ 75 and $ 90 per barrel. And according to the investment rationale made by Gazprom planners and economists, it turns out that even at the price of the most expensive oil, the project does not pay off even in 2048! This is not a commercial project at all. The main stakeholders: JSC "Stroytransgaz", which belongs to Gennady Timchenko,
and OOO Stroygazmontazh, which belongs to Arkady Rotenberg.

[voyaka uh]

That's right. The project is geo-political. And a failure. The Kremlin thought that
China will give Russia loans for this pipeline. China did not give anything in exchange.

[Olgovich]

Quote: voyaka uh

And a failure.

When it fails in REALITY, then speak. While it is only under construction.

And the potential in it is huge — not today, so tomorrow: competition and clashes between the USA and China are inevitable, and the Power of Siberia is a serious help to China. Not free

[voyaka uh]

"The power of Siberia is a serious help to China. Not free" ////
----
China - of course. China from East Siberian gas and oil is in a clear plus.
Russia is at a loss.
And about the clashes: always in danger are countries with a common
land border (the analogy with Germany is transparent).
China and the United States have nothing to divide territorially. They are far apart.
A clash "for prestige", "for a sphere of influence" is possible. And if China wins,
then the danger for Russia will grow many times, since China’s ambitions
will increase.

[Olgovich]

Quote: voyaka uh

China - of course. China from East Siberian gas and oil is in a clear plus.
Russia is at a loss.

I will repeat once again: when it works ("fails), then we'll talk

Quote: voyaka uh

And about the clashes: always in danger are countries with a common
land border (the analogy with Germany is transparent).

The analogy with Japan USA is even more transparent.

Quote: voyaka uh

China and the United States have nothing to divide territorially. They are far apart.
A clash "for prestige", "for a sphere of influence" is possible.

Japan and the United States -so much territorially What other "prestige"? Who the hell needs him? It's about dominating the economy

Quote: voyaka uh

And if China wins,
then the danger for Russia will grow many times, since China’s ambitions
will increase.

Both are bad, and western critters and China. Western today is more dangerous, like the whole past century.
Trading is always good

[Normal ok]

Quote: Olgovich

When it fails in REALITY, then speak.

Google the topic. Not on cheers-patriotic resources, but on business resources. The fact that the project is a failure is already recognized by everyone.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Normal ok

Google the topic. Not on cheers-patriotic resources, but on business resources. The fact that the project is a failure is already recognized by everyone.

When it fails, then we'll talk.
Chatter is uninteresting

[dinis]

To think that the Power of Siberia was invented for the benefit of these firms is stupid. Rather, this project is generally for the benefit of not financial.

[Rzzz]

I can't understand why there is an advertisement for "The Power of Siberia" on TV? Show how much extra money has gas?

[Nycomed]

Under this advertisement, connect the "laundry" and "wash" a little.

[Alex Justice]

Watch the American TV series Millions, How Big Business Works.

[Ross xnumx]

Companies from China and the EU to jointly build a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Europe

Here it is the famous Chinese friendship of the peoples and the first blow in the back ... Such simple guys ... Nothing personal - pure commerce.

[Piramidon]

Quote: ROSS 42

Companies from China and the EU to jointly build a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Europe

Here it is the famous Chinese friendship of the peoples and the first blow in the back ... Such simple guys ... Nothing personal - pure commerce.

Just business. What kind of backstabs are there? The Chinese were contracted for the construction. They will not build, there will be other contractors. Why would they give up money for the sake of some kind of ghostly "friendship" that does not exist.

[Sky strike fighter]

There is not only Russia and Iran opposed, but also Qatar, the CA through whose territory Qatar gas was supposed to go, Israel, which itself has a project for delivering gas to Europe, as well as the United States with its LNG. In general, there are many dissatisfied.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Sky Strike fighter

There is not only Russia and Iran against, but also Qatar

Well clear Iran and Russia ecology of the Caspian Sea

The construction of a gas pipeline through the Caspian Sea can cause severe damage to the ecology of the region ... Iran opposes its construction

everything is clear here, but my question crept in without an answer, and in other seas it is possible to lay and ecology is not harmful. Look what is happening in the North Sea, it’s scary to walk on it now, everywhere towers and pipelines, what kind of ecology there is!

[Vlad.by]

In other seas, the Europeans themselves have so much chemicalized during WWII that excess thread is not a hindrance. In addition, the ecology of the Caspian Sea hangs in the balance, unlike the Baltic and Middle-earth with the Black Sea.

[bar]

What does Qatar have to do with it? It seems that they are going to drive Turkmen gas.

[private person]

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

And who said that the Chinese are our friends? They even under the USSR when we and they "were building a bright future" showed themselves, remember at least the Damansky Peninsula. Russia for China is a raw material appendage of cheap timber, gas, oil and other minerals.

[demo]

You forgot the supply of Chinese weapons to the Afghan Mujahideen.

[RUSS]

Quote: Svarog

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

And who told you that the Chinese are friends to us? Of course, they are not enemies yet, but they are already competitors.

[Svarog]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: Svarog

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

And who told you that the Chinese are friends to us? Of course, they are not enemies yet, but they are already competitors.

They shout to me from all federal channels that the Chinese are our friends, here on VO there were a bunch of friendly articles, where commentators foaming at their mouths argued that they are good Chinese and how much our "friendship" will benefit us. The Chinese are not our competitors, there are no areas where we would compete with them .. What do we produce to be competitors? China wants to get resources from us at a low cost - that's all .. until everything .. what's on their minds in the future is not yet clear. At the same time, it does not open its market for us, which significantly hinders our economic development .. For this reason, I believe that it is necessary to behave harder with these comrades especially, in the trade of resources and the same timber. It is necessary to set conditions so that they would open their market for us .. but for now, only in words, very few companies can work with them .. look for curiosity, the TOP 50 goods that we supply to China, everything will immediately become clear.

[Nycomed]

The Chinese have no "friends", they simply do not need them. The Chinese have INTERESTSand that’s it.

[Sky strike fighter]

Quote: Nycomed

The Chinese have no "friends", they simply do not need them. The Chinese have INTERESTSand that’s it.

So everyone. Not only the Chinese. There are no permanent friends. There are permanent interests.

[RUSS]

Quote: Svarog

The Chinese are not competitors to us, there are no areas where we would compete with them ..

The Chinese are stepping on our heels in world arms sales.

[Guards turn]

Yeah, and the Americans too. 99% of all goods in America are all Chinese, electronics, iPhones, slippers are slippers, the Chinese have completely captured the Americans, so Trump is yelling sanctions against China.

[WIKI]

Quote: Guards turn

99% of all goods in America are all Chinese,

China's share in the US import market reached 18,84%. Well, no matter how your data is not accurate. Why do you leave such comments and mislead readers? https://russian.dbw.cn/system/2009/11/09/000175640.shtml

[Guards turn]

I know what I'm saying - televisions, washing machines, everything in China is all Chinese here.

[private person]

At the same time, it does not open its market for us, which essentially inhibits our economic development.

Sorry for the indiscreet question, but what can Russia offer in their market? The same oil, gas, timber and other minerals that they already have from us. For example, the ESPO pipeline in the construction of which they have invested well and now receive our oil at the expense of cost compensation.

[Svarog]

Quote: private person

Sorry for the indiscreet question, but what can Russia offer in their market?

Food, the entire range of agricultural products is unambiguous. The billionth population of China would very strongly support our agricultural sector .. I tried to enter the market about five years ago .. It's tough .. I’ve agreed with Norway, the Baltic states, and even Saudi Arabia and Japan .. but don’t throw it with them, wedge everywhere. Starting from the requirements of their customs, where it is necessary to fully disclose the composition, recipe, product, ending with the Chinese themselves, who do not want to work for less than 100% profitability .. But the feeling is that they are simply forbidden from above ...

[private person]

The billionth population of China would very strongly support our agricultural sector .. I tried to enter five years ago, to enter the market .. It's tin ..


And glory to God, otherwise we will smell like yuan and dollars, so our "entrepreneurs" will export all agricultural products to China. And from them they will bring in different "delicious".

[Svarog]

Quote: private person

And glory to God, otherwise we will smell like yuan and dollars, so our "entrepreneurs" will export all agricultural products to China. And from them they will bring in different "delicious".

"Vkusnyashki" are so imported .. and I think dollars and yuan would not hurt .. if only to make our agricultural sector independent of Western producers .. because now, despite the fact that we have our own chicken, pork, but everything for cultivation is still purchased abroad .. sometimes there are no seeds of our own. Although you may be right, given the appetites of our bourgeois .. It will be like with gasoline .. it’s more profitable to sell for dollars than to your ragamuffins

[private person]

Although maybe you're right, given the appetites of our bourgeoisie .. It will be like gasoline .. mol for dollars is more profitable to sell than their ragged

Well, I’m talking about this, it will be so. And selling their products to China to be independent from Western manufacturers makes no sense.

[WIKI]

Quote: private person

This is tin ..

This tin is easy to explain. "The average Chinese is getting richer and wants to eat healthy and tasty food now. for him, the quality and safety of products for him light wedged. A fan of conformity certificates is an unequivocal buy signal. https://rg.ru/2018/11/14/kakie-rossijskie-tovary-interesuiut-kitajskih-potrebitelej.html

[demo]

Why open it?
Come to China.
Execute documents in accordance with the requirements of Chinese law.
Prepare everything you need: office, chief accountant.
Make a minimum authorized capital and go ahead!
The first two years are tax holidays.
Then the minimum rate, depending on the declared activities.
Who's stopping you?
The market is open.

True, I do not recommend recruiting CCP members.
For them, once a week, any employer is required to allocate half a day to conduct a party meeting.
You will pay for the meeting time from your pocket.

[Vlad.by]

Do not write nonsense, in any case, the enemy of your enemy is a friend. Even if it’s temporary. It is from temporality that we must proceed. And their interests.

[WIKI]

Quote: Svarog

We need to set conditions so that they open their market for us ..

And what can Russia supply besides this TOP-50, as you say?

[Chaldon48]

China and Russia have directly opposite interests. Russia has the task of preserving the rights to its resources; China, one way or another, wants to establish control over them.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Svarog

So much for the Chinese ... we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends.

Your shirt is closer to your body. "Yes, and he is not a friend and not an enemy, but so. You cannot tell right away whether he is good or bad." China is just a temporary partner with whom you peacefully coexist.

[Mavrikiy]

Quote: Svarog

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

Nothing personal, business. Having given an alternative to Europe from Russian gas, the Chinese hope that they will become the only consumers of Russian gas and will be able to dictate prices to us. But Germany can get out, of course, but the price of our gas is the lowest, logistics-s. Hello to China.

[K-612-O]

And here are friends, the Chinese have long bought up the entire Turkmen gas industry, because of this, the Turkmens do not particularly decide anything. But the Iranians will not sit quietly, now they will communicate objectively with the Azerbaijanis and everything will be according to them.

[Normal ok]

Quote: K-612-O

But the Iranians will not sit still,

Against China, Iran will not even make a noise. They depend too much on both Chinese support and oil imports to China.

[Nyrobsky]

Quote: Svarog

So much for the Chinese .. we’ll still be hard pressed by such friends ..

Come on. China's interest in this project most likely lies in obtaining additional leverage not on Russia, but on the countries that will be involved in the implementation of the Chinese idea of ​​creating a "Great Silk Road". He himself, against the background of the fact that he refuses coal, without choking, would have swallowed this Turkmen gas. And so, having taken part in the project, he will be able to pinch the "whims" of his partners somewhere, if they suddenly follow the lead of the Americans in terms of slowing down the Silk Road.

[9PA]

China is the Chinese with a 2000 year history. Xi Chinaman, Mao Chinaman, billionaire businessman Chinaman, impoverished Chinese laborer. How many friends and enemies have they had in their history? Synthetic heroin at the level of state policy

[RUSS]

Quote: Honest Citizen

It's time in Turkmenistan to do the Maidan, only under a different direction ...
Politics, such a policy ...

Now Medvedev flew to Turkmenistan and indulged the president there with an Aurus car.
I don’t know whether it will help or not?
I assume the Chinese offered richer gifts.

[Honest Citizen]

Medvedev flew and indulged the president there with an Aurus car.

Oh?
There the conversation, I think, was more "difficult", although from the lips of Medvedev it would have sounded ridiculous.
I suppose he memorized the text, which he "rattled off", standing on a stool.
And since Tajikistan has a common border with Afghanistan, where the export of drugs has grown tenfold, I believe that it was about it.
So here everything is twofold.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: RUSS

I assume the Chinese offered richer gifts.

The pipeline is a huge gift, they do not refuse it. It was not necessary to donate "Aurus", but to build a pipeline.

[tihonmarine]

Wow ! I see the liberals and DAM friends became alarmed.

[K-612-O]

They stupidly bought the gas industry and without the Chinese, the Turkmens cannot drill or pump anything.

[Siberia 75]

The theme of Turkmen gas was dispelled years ago. Read real experts in the gas field, the same Martsenkevich. Gas reserves in Turkmenistan are greatly exaggerated. Local authorities and Western contractors participated in this at a profit for themselves. Of course there is gas, but pulling a pipe to Europe will not pay off. It makes sense to trade with neighboring China. Or connect with existing gas pipelines.

[Honest Citizen]

Of course there is gas, but pulling a pipe to Europe will not pay off. It makes sense to trade with neighboring China. Or connect with existing gas pipelines.

Buddy (sorry to call it that) Alex.
You did not take into account one small but important point. It is not so important how much gas goes through this pipe. Absolutely not important. There is a calculation for another. PR.
Imagine what, and most importantly, how the EU will be presented in the press: we buy gas from Asia bypassing Russia. And the most interesting thing is that under these screams they will demand ... DISCOUNTS. To "recoup" your investments. Gas is not important there, pressure on Russia is important.

[Siberia 75]

Quote: Honest Citizen

There is a calculation for another. PR.

Quite right "take a pie from the shelf (s)"
This is already the third or fourth attempt to play Turkmen gas. Therefore, Russia does not react to this in any way, it just observes lazily.

[tihonmarine]

Quote: Siberia 75

It makes sense to trade with neighboring China.

The Chinese with this swing and agreed to the pipeline. They say that in Europe, and pulled to China. East is a delicate matter.

[IL-18]

Quote: tihonmarine

, and pulled to China. In

Across the Caspian ?!

[tihonmarine]

Quote: IL-18

Across the Caspian ?!

On yours as "through Berdichev and to Zhmerinka". Turkmenistan is already located in the eastern part of the Caspian Sea. So it's easier from Turkmenistan, through Uzbekistan and directly to China. More than two thousand kilometers and China. For China, it's like three fingers ...

[Brturin]

Quote: Honest Citizen

Politics, such a policy ...

Politics .... from this year (break from 2016) Gazprom resumed purchases of Turkmen gas (they wrote that it would be about 5 billion a year ... we'll see) + from the same year, oil transshipment from Turkmenistan through the Makhachkala Commercial Sea Port resumed (i.e. not only through Azerbaijan). The second issue is volumes - TANAP is designed for 16 billion cubic meters, by 2023 they promise about 23 billion cubic meters. how much Turkmen gas will be in it? It can be compared with the deliveries of Gazprom and Novotek to Europe. And do not forget that TAPI is being built in India ... Deliveries to China, Iran, Russia, also to India and those who are on the road, now Europe ... wait and see ....

[bmv04636]

Point 2 is much more important, according to which ALL five countries will have to approve the construction after they are convinced of the environmental safety of the project. Those. the control levers of Russia and Iran - far from supporters of the Trans-Caspian, remain. It is possible to consider the environmental friendliness of the pipeline for a long time, thereby hindering the start of its construction. At the same time, one can refuse without confrontations and conflicts, gently referring to the possibility of damaging the ecology of the sea. It is impossible to ensure the complete safety of the gas pipeline and eliminate all environmental risks.

The second important issue for Turkmenistan, the solution of which many experts expected after the signing of the Convention, is disputed deposits. However, only one point is devoted to this problem in the document:

Article 8

The division of the bottom and bowels of the Caspian Sea into sectors is carried out by agreement of neighboring and opposing states, taking into account generally recognized principles and norms of international law in order to exercise their sovereign rights to subsurface use and other legitimate economic and economic activities related to the development of bottom and subsoil resources.
In fact, no progress on this issue took place, the parties were invited to resolve mutual disputes themselves.

If, in the opinion of analysts, Russia gained from signing the Convention by prohibiting the armed forces of other states from appearing in the Caspian, then what Turkmenistan received is still unclear.

[Observer2014]

I support China and the EU. Stop. Enough of us to make a gas station. Enough to tear my Motherland. We need a different country. But not a raw materials appendage .. I will not fight for delivery for cheaply someone or something. It's time to make the final product. And where are the sales markets now screaming. We need to do this so that for happiness it would be to buy our products. Not You know how. You don’t know how. Leave yourself. You do not need to hide behind beautiful slogans. We do not need 1917.

[Honest Citizen]

It's time to make the final product.

Of course it’s time, it’s long time ago, back in the days of the USSR it was time. Only WHO needs it now from the leadership of the country and government? As long as there is an opportunity at a minimal cost to make big profits without doing anything - this will continue. Because how to live in Russia, those who receive the maximum profit will not.
It’s much easier to cut down a forest than to create a computer.
So, alas, your voice is the voice of one crying in the desert. The government and United Russia do not hear you, and do not want to hear.

[Svarog]

Quote: Honest Citizen

Because how to live in Russia, those who receive the maximum profit will not.

This is for sure the "elite" does not link the future of their own and their children with Russia .. from here all the conclusions.

[banana tree]

So create a PC, or someone needs to create. And you will criticize that you created something wrong.

[sabakina]

Quote: Observer2014

We do not need 1917.

Who knows, how to know ... Sergey. How would you know. what do people need? Are you an apostle? Christ? It’s not worth talking about what you don’t know ...

[svp67]

Companies from China and the EU to jointly build a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan to Europe

Have you asked permission from Russia?

[Elysium]

Quote: svp67

Have you asked permission from Russia?

According to the rules for laying gas pipelines along the bottom of the Caspian Sea of ​​Turkmenistan, only the consent of Azerbaijan will be required.

Strange, of course, rules.

[svp67]

Quote: Elysium

Strange, of course, rules.

I’m afraid that it’s not accuracy that has crept in ...
According to
Article 14
...
2. Parties may lay submarine trunk pipelines along the bottom of the Caspian Sea, provided that their projects comply with environmental requirements and standards enshrined in international treaties to which they are parties, including the Framework Convention for the Protection of the Marine Environment of the Caspian Sea and relevant protocols thereto.
...
That is, according to this paragraph, permission is required from all five countries of the Caspian basin

[Elysium]

However, as follows from the article, to seek the consent of all interested countries in the region there are no stakeholders. Apparently, there are some pitfalls. Perhaps related to China. A kind of misunderstanding is obtained there.

[CommanderDIVA]

"According to the rules for laying gas pipelines along the seabed of the Caspian Sea, Turkmenistan will only need the consent of Azerbaijan" - if this is the case, then the key element here is Aliyev's opinion and the Russian Federation has good leverage on Azerbaijan (IHT supplies, the level of support for Armenia, the Azerbaijani diaspora in the Russian Federation trade, etc. and in the future, our hegemony for gas supplies to the EU will end sooner or later

[Oquzyurd]

"The key element here is the opinion of Aliyev, and the Russian Federation has good levers of pressure on Azerbaijan (arms supplies, the level of support for Armenia, the Azerbaijani diaspora in the Russian Federation trade, etc.)" Again, the same rake, you suggest. Pressing only scares and alienates. Will it be nice to stand next to someone who is ready to hit you on the head with a sledgehammer at the first opportunity? It is better to take the side of Azerbaijan (not even take, but be neutral in the literal sense, especially since the Russian Federation recognizes the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan) on the Karabakh issue, and it will be enough that Azerbaijan will block the project. You have to be the Uncle of the region, not the Ataman. If you look at the policy of China, they behave this way and it works.

[CommanderDIVA]

I think that pressure on the leadership of Azerbaijan will not go to the question of laying the pipe, Aliyev and he understands everything, he is an adequate politician, and I wrote about levers, since the Russian Federation periodically presses them in the direction that is necessary for us, which allows us to coexist peacefully in this policy and nothing more

[Elysium]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

and the Russian Federation has good leverage over Azerbaijan

The Russian Federation has even more significant leverage on Georgia and Armenia. But some significant result from this is visible a little. And Azerbaijan is more independent in this regard. So you can’t be sure of something here.

[CommanderDIVA]

What are the levers on Georgia? Borjomi and cognac-wine flows?

[Elysium]

Quote: CommanderDIVA

Borjomi and cognac-wine streams?

are the basis of the budget of this "small but proud republic". And indeed, trade, tourism and the diaspora.

[Ros 56]

And they still make Colchis, huh?

[Prisoner]

"The construction of a gas pipeline across ... the sea can cause severe damage to the ecology of the region ..." I've heard it somewhere. However, science to our enthusiastic comrades. Don't rely on Chinese "friendship" too much. However, not only in Chinese.

[Nycomed]

Everything here is extremely clear and understandable. Europe will never give us the entire gas market, that's for sure. But it would be better if, in addition to Russian gas, Turkmen, and not American, LNG goes to Europe? With China, everything has been clear for a long time, I don't even want to comment. Iran is completely in vain trying to "buckle" in this process. Europe is happy to buy cheap Iranian oil smuggled. But pipeline gas, given the current situation around Iran, is a big risk.

[RUSS]

Quote: Nycomed

But would it be better if, in addition to Russian gas, Europe will go to Europe, and not American LNG?

Which is better?

[Nycomed]

The fact that not Amer.

[Oleg Zorin]

Not what, but to whom?

[Victor March 47]

Since this project acts as a competitor to the Turkish stream, Azerbaijan will not give its consent, since Turkey will crush it to the level of the plinth.

[Amateur]

100% fake. Turkmenistan simply does not have that much gas. And the one that has long been downloaded to China on 4 threads.

[Pimply]

Quote: Amateur

100% fake. Turkmenistan simply does not have that much gas. And the one that has long been downloaded to China on 4 threads.

4-I gas reserves in the world

[Amateur]

I personally explored Saparmurad Turkmenboshi Niyazov. And stupid Soviet gas workers back in the 80s. piled to the north. It’s probably more comfortable there, not so hot.

[RUSS]

Quote: Amateur

100% fake. Turkmenistan simply does not have that much gas. And the one that has long been downloaded to China on 4 threads.

You are aware that Turkmenistan is the fourth country in the world in terms of gas reserves.

[Ali Kokand]

And how nervous some comrades and non-comrades are about the export of Turkmen gas. Apparently everyone lives in Gazprom, which is "national property". Yeah, yeah .. just wait, folk. And if without irony, the Turkmens are lucky with hydrocarbons. And their right with whom and how to trade. The Nord Streams are actually eco-friendly, but the Caspian ones are not eco-friendly? Aren't you funny yourself? You accuse the West of double standards, but yourself? Oh well..

[bmv04636]

But it’s not funny for you that the pretexts are the same, though not. We have already built Nord Stream 1 and which has passed strict environmental control. Nord Stream 2 goes in parallel. And as I understand it, the Caspian does not border on the European collective farm, which means that ecology can be neglected by the European collective farmers. I remember, after all, the recent scandal when the same company sold the same product, but in Western Europe it was better than in Eastern Europe

[Ros 56]

Trade with the South Pole, your business. Just do not cross the road becomes

[bmv04636]

um Denmark say XM Caspian Sea and who can quickly transfer MRCs in sufficient quantities from the Black Sea and not only

[sabakina]

Quote: bmv04636

um Denmark say XM Caspian Sea and who can quickly transfer MRCs in sufficient quantities from the Black Sea and not only

Milo, did you want to say something privately?

[bmv04636]

to hell to someone and not a pipe

[Zomanus]

Yeah, our bureaucrats are worried about the environment ...
Well, there’s someone who wants to go to nature, to our officials, especially from the extractive industries.
Well, it’ll just be really a choice whose gas to take.
Moreover, it is not a fact that there is a lot of this gas.

[bmv04636]

just like the Danish chenushi are worried about ecology, or is it not ecology that matters?

[Sadam]

comrade, it would be high time to learn to read between the lines - this is an environmental trend that all competitors are pushing each other))) it even came to protecting the worms)) the clearest example of how Vova kicked Shel out of Sakhalin2 after a fight when everything was past the checkout was about sharing products and they were squeezed out officially worrying about ecology and whale protection))

[sabakina]

I’m thinking privately ... If there was so much gas in the Turkmen SSR, what the hell were we climbing to the north for?

[Semurg]

If the Turkmens build this gas pipeline, the Kazakhs will also begin to move to connect to it.

[Never mind]

How could they be helped and allowed to become a nuclear power!

[Mountain shooter]

Firstly, it’s worth immediately assessing the scale of the disaster. Gas consumption in Europe 600 lard ... Supply through this pipeline 5% of consumption ... Even if Turkmenistan is able to supply this volume ...
And the supply of two northern streams is 110 lard. Plus the Belarusian-Polish route, plus the South Stream ... Well, the Power of Siberia - 50 lards, it seems ... And this one still needs to be built ...

[Town Hall]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Firstly, it’s worth immediately assessing the scale of the disaster. Gas consumption in Europe 600 lard ... Supply through this pipeline 5% of consumption ... Even if Turkmenistan is able to supply this volume ...
And the supply of two northern streams is 110 lard. Plus the Belarusian-Polish route, plus the South Stream ... Well, the Power of Siberia - 50 lards, it seems ... And this one still needs to be built ...

And how much will the excess of 10% in the market bring down the price?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Town Hall

And how much will the excess of 10% in the market bring down the price?

Five percent, five ... Try to get in ...

[Town Hall]

Seriously? ... An oversupply of 2 (two)% in 2014 brought down the price of oil from 120 to 30 bucks and for 5 years now Russia and OPEC have been cutting their production every year to keep prices at least around 60 ...

And Amer LNG to the European market, which did not even 5%, has brought down the price of gas in Europe from 3/4 dollars per 300 cubic meters to the current 400/1000 over the past 180-200 years.

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Town Hall

Seriously? ... An oversupply of 2 (two)% in 2014 brought down the price of oil from 120 to 30 bucks and for 5 years now Russia and OPEC have been cutting their production every year to keep prices at least around 60 ...

Do you seriously believe this nonsense? Trading in futures, which are issued about TEN TIMES MORE than the actually produced oil and the capital (speculative) that is spinning there - this is the true source of "jumps" and "falls" ... And who rules this market? And how "suddenly" does he adjust to attack an unwanted country? You shouldn't be so naive ... Cause and effect ... The reason is the dominance of speculative capital. Consequence - whoever has a "printing press" has a "price tag"

[Town Hall]

That is, I do not believe in the real numbers for which I buy gas .. and believe in your conspiracy theories?)

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Town Hall

That is, I do not believe in the real numbers for which I buy gas .. and believe in your conspiracy theories?)

And how much gas do you have? We have -5 r / m3 or $ 80 per 1000 m3 (approximately). And this is not in a pipeline, but in low-pressure networks, where it is usually twice as expensive as "in a pipe" ... This is with US. And how much is it in Europe? In the apartment meter, not in the highway?

[Town Hall]

What difference do you, the Russian citizen, how much gas costs for the end consumer in Europe?) Your interest is how much Gazprom sells it to the EU. And since the last 3-4 years, these prices have fallen by about 2 times. As a consumer, I can tell you that the prices are gas are reduced. The last time a month ago, at 6% with something

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Town Hall

As a consumer, I can tell you that gas prices are declining. The last time a month ago, by 6% with something

Well, you can sympathize ... 6% reduction after many hundreds of increase? It is comforting ...

[Town Hall]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

Quote: Town Hall

As a consumer, I can tell you that gas prices are declining. The last time a month ago, by 6% with something

Well, you can sympathize ... 6% reduction after many hundreds of increase? It is comforting ...

Compassion for yourself. Only this year, gas prices fell 2 times. In April by 9,3% and in July by 6,9%. That is 16,2% in 6 months ... When was the last time in Russia gas prices declined?

[Mountain shooter]

Quote: Town Hall

Compassion for yourself. Only this year gas prices fell 2 times. In April by 9,3% and in July by 6,9%. That is 17,2% in 6 months ... When was the last time in Russia gas prices declined

Yes, never declined. Except for the devaluation of the ruble ... Immediately twice
Sorry, you, where is it?

[Town Hall]

You do not read well. Not "twice". And "twice" - in April and July. By 16 +% of the total. We have it in Italy

[Mountain shooter]

Well, why should you be afraid. LNG from the USA is provided to you ... They will bring you as much as you need ... Cheap ...

[Town Hall]

And we are not afraid of anything. All (primarily Russia) are pulling their pipes and gas carriers towards us and fighting with each other and dumping just to buy their gas. The more good and different pipes are lower than the price for us. Only from October 2018 to April 2019 for 6 months, wholesale gas prices fell by 32% and electricity prices by 28%. Competition is a great thing for the consumer)

[V1er]

The construction of a gas pipeline through the Caspian Sea can seriously damage the region’s ecology ...

The Russian representative also drew attention to the unique ecosystem of the sea.

Somewhere we already heard it
Well, the Chinese are daring, but what is the use of it? To weaken Russia in the European market? Support Turkmenistan? Fuck profits from this gas, having bought all the controlling shares? Give the Chinese free rein, cling to the neck)

[Ros 56]

Here you have the Chinese friends, you need to keep an eye on them. And we give them both airplanes and technologies and what else.

[Oleg Zorin]

Were not friends and never will be.

[Ros 56]

Even at school I was always jarred by this expression "brotherly people" applied to almost everyone, especially when they passed through history as Russian princes, and not only Russians, arranged intercourse, and simple slaves died in patched Armenians and sheepskin coats, or even without them.

[Oleg Zorin]

Same thing.

[Oleg Zorin]

How they like to appeal to the environment!

[Karaul14]

This is a strange feeling when you realize that your enemies from the EU and NATO fill 60% of your budget annually, and an ally - China helps build a competitive gas pipeline so that your enemies buy less gas from you.
In the case, I understand that through Azerbaijan it will all join the TANAP and further into the EU, and on the other hand there will be the United States with its liquefied gas, there the terminals are almost ready. They will knock Russia out of the European market, for Europe itself the same diversification of supplies, that is, in the event of aggravation of relations with Russia, it will be possible to replace the supplier. Iran, by the way, is also not averse to sticking there.

[DPN]

Perhaps this was the main feature in the collapse of the USSR before: I, YOU, SHE IS ANOTHER FAMILY together and now everyone is for MYSELF. they wanted it and got it.

[Ugolek]

I can say so, if Russia had the same approach to business as the United States and England, then this dead gas pipeline would not even have begun to build. It would be enough to hint the EU that the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict could erupt exactly at the time the gas pipeline was commissioned. But this is not in the rules of the Russian Federation, as I understand it.

[Ugolek]

The second one. This low-power gas pipeline and it will only close the growth in EU energy capacities by 15-20 years, that is, the main sale as Gazprom did will continue to do so. And there is also the issue of cost, to drive gas so far is how much electricity you need to burn.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Well, yes, the Caspian flotilla will give the go-ahead Maybe it will flood. Someday. In the distant future and with a very successful alignment of stars for him. So is Iran. Argued by the threat of ecology. So the Turkmenbashi will lick. There will be no pipeline for him. Niyazov’s son got into a scam with the filing of the Jesuits. traded sanctioned Iranian oil for 2 billion, which successfully froze s. Iran did not forgive this debt and told him to smear the rope with soap. so that he’s in full f .., about export gas under his rule, everyone except China can be forgotten. I think, until the end of the summer, he will choke on a stone from the plum. and there it will be seen.

[Gennady Fomkin]

And right now, series number two is unfolding: half of Moscow is running around with billions of Turkmen manats in cash, "profitably" selling them for rubles and dollars. The poor fellows do not know that as soon as the cunning Asian guys come true their papers, they will immediately declare them fake! Well, the stump is clear, this whole circus with horses takes place under the full control of our cops and the "bloody gebny"

[Gennady Fomkin]

The nosed and "cunning" Azerbaijani Ali managed to contract not only what is still in the ground and CAN BE obtained in the future with great difficulty, but also what he CAN NEVER GET and deliver, for Azeri geologists, who predicted a comfortable future for him and golden dishes for the rest of their lives, turned out to be those still dreamers. Well, do not shmogli! Khazu, as it turned out, themselves do not have enough for the growing domestic consumption and pumping into oil wells to squeeze out of there oil, which has already been sold for years in advance. "This is not your golden tooth, it is not even my tooth, but there it is!" (C) This is the Azeri classic. As a result, the big-nosed Ali "in a friendly way" turned to Russia, they say Russia, while the gas pipelines between us are intact, sell us a khaza and maybe more so that we can supply it "bypassing Russia" and undermine your gas markets in Geyrop to the delight of the amers hohlomordy banderlog, logs and other Russophobes. Chutzpah, but Russia thinks, and maybe it is already supplying on the sly, since the Azerbaijanis have launched their hurdy-gurdy ... Well, if not at domestic Russian prices, but we have such combinators upstairs ... Yes, and a neighbor and a "dumb friend" onions will strangle themselves with envy, it is not businesslike.

[Gennady Fomkin]

This is a matter of five states, and not one of them is a member of the European Union.

[romb]

And this will be correct, because it is beneficial to both the seller and the consumer. The more there are alternative routes for delivering products to the final consumer, the lower the risk for the seller will be to be held hostage to a certain kind of manipulation by various "transit monopolies".

[Gennady Fomkin]

An urgent need to triple the number of Caliber in the Caspian flotilla to protect sprats.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Because in practice, for the next five years, 6 billion cubic meters is all that Turkmenistan is able to pass through the SGC. Consequently, they will not reach the European border of Turkey at all. At the same time, in the next three to four years, Nord Stream 2 and South Stream 2 will be commissioned, which will increase Russian gas exports to Europe from 155,9 (2017 data) to 226-227 billion cubes per year.

Against this background, even if Azerbaijan manages to increase production to at least 18 billion, and Turkmenistan manages to miraculously stretch the first branch along the bottom of the Caspian, then even in this case Europe will reach 22-24 billion cubic meters from the force, which will make up 10% of Russian volumes. They will certainly bring additional money to suppliers, but they will not be able to seriously affect the overall balance of supply and demand in the European gas market, especially given the drop in European production. The dominance of Russian gas in Europe has no alternative.

[iouris]

Chinese gas is in the EU. It is interesting.

[Gennady Fomkin]

Arrests and escorts to the nearest Russian port. Where the fairest Russian court will roll out such a fine for "violation of the environment" to the owner of the pipe-laying machine that he will forever erase the Caspian from his map. It remains to clarify how some kind of pipelayer will appear in the Caspian, but this is not a boat at all? Something I don’t remember any other waterways there except through Russia

We remember Sakhalin-2 and the poor fur seals that he hurt. True, the harm to the cats disappeared immediately after the termination of the PSA, but these are details.

[mitrich]

Quote: Nycomed

The Chinese have no "friends", they simply do not need them. The Chinese have INTERESTSand that’s it.

It's bad that we do not have clearly expressed interests. Everywhere, for centuries, we have been looking for "friends and brothers", sacrificing the lives of our citizens, resources and interests to them.

[NF68]

I’m not particularly surprised if over time the Chinese begin to build a gas pipeline and an oil pipeline from Iran to China.