Humanist, engineer, scientist, sailor. Jorge Juan and Santisilia

44
There are a lot of stories about unrecognized geniuses in the world, and many of them are heard by people. Many of these geniuses were recognized in their Fatherland after death, many were not, and many were simply forgotten, since the world history at that time completely different people created. Even more stories are simply about masters of their craft who did something, then other people used their works, admired their creations - but the masters themselves were forgotten, because they did not suffer from excessive conceit and desire to become famous, but worked for the result. But here are the multi-master craftsmen who, having been forgotten in one, have covered themselves with glory and eternal memory in the other, there are not so many people like them who have achieved great success in many, sometimes quite different areas. One of these masters was don Jorge Juan and Santisilia, a humanist, engineer, scientist, researcher, sailor, organizer, economist, cartographer, diplomat, spy and God knows who else.


Jorge Juan and Santisilia in person. You can see from the face that he is not simple, not at all simple ...




Science never happens


Jorge Juan was born in 1713 in the town of Monforte del Cid, in the province of Alicante. They say that at the time of his birth, the British, foreseeing the future shame, were unanimously sad, and the Spaniards were filled with pride in advance for how a representative of their nation would disgrace these shabby islanders from the north. However, there are disputes about the birthplace of this outstanding person, as there is information that he was only baptized at Monfort, and that he himself was born on the estate of his parents in El Fondonet. Jorge himself wrote simply on this subject - "I am a native of the University of Monforte." These words have their own meaning, since from childhood his fate turned out to be closely connected with education and sciences. Being only three years old, he became an orphan, and the canon of the local Jesuit college took up the upbringing of the boy, and part-time - his uncle Jorge on his mother's side, don Antonio Juan, who began his education. Soon, the boy moved to another uncle on his father's side, Cipriano Juan, a knight of the Order of Malta and a prominent person in the judicial system of Spain. According to the statute of the order, Cipriano did not have the right to have his own children, and therefore he gave all his fatherly love and severity to his nephew. Thanks to him, Jorge received a good education at the University of Zaragoza, where his outstanding abilities for sciences and enchanting industriousness appeared early. At the age of 16 years, he applied to the Guards Naval Academy in Cadiz (Academia de Guardias Marinas de Cádiz), and in 1730 he successfully entered the training, before attending classes as a student. Cadiz itself at that time was one of the largest educational and scientific centers in Europe, where studies were conducted, highly qualified personnel were trained, important scientific issues were discussed. Studying a huge number of subjects, he achieved great success, for which he earned the nickname Euclid. Even then, Jorge Juan began to show great promise, and he was prophesied the fate of one of the most outstanding naval officers in Spain.

At the age of 21, he actually completed his training, and immediately took part in hostilities in the Mediterranean Sea, having noted himself in a number of diplomatic actions, a punitive expedition against Berber pirates near Oran, etc. At this time, he had a chance to meet with many prominent sailors of Spain at that time and future years, in particular, Blas de Leso, the hero of the defense of Cartagena during the war for Jenkins’s ear, and Juan José de Navarro, a very controversial person and admiral who commanded the Spanish fleet during a lost battle at Toulon. After three years of service, he finally received an assignment in 1734 to a special scientific expedition organized by the Royal Academy of Sciences of France under the supervision of Louis Gaudens. He got there with don Antonio de Ulloa, and together they will be destined to make a huge contribution to the development of science in Spain and Europe in principle. Formally, both of them were still studying at the university, but given the fact that they had been in the colonies and abroad for 14 years, conducting active scientific research, this was a simple formality. During the work, two Spaniards, together with their three French colleagues, for several years explored the nature of South America and measured the Earth’s meridian at the latitude of Quito. Jorge Juan, as the best mathematician of the expedition, was engaged in calculating and deriving the results of research, as a result of which he precisely determined the length of the planet’s meridian. It is on the basis of his work that the metric system of a measure of length will be created in the future. After conducting a number of other studies, he went to Paris with his results, where he was joyfully received by the local scientific community, and became a corresponding member of the Academy of Sciences in Paris. This was followed by the writing and publication of various scientific works, including, together with Antonio de Ulloa, international recognition of his achievements, and his return to Madrid in 1748. Alas, he was met quite coolly there - Felipe V, who sent Jorge Juan on an expedition, had already died, and there were no more people interested in his studies in higher Spanish circles. Nevertheless, through acquaintances Jorge Juan came to the Marquis de la Ensenada, who concentrated in his hands almost all the full power in the country, and was responsible for the development of the Spanish fleet. He, being an intelligent and prudent man, immediately saw great potential in the scientific sailor, showed patronage and promoted to the rank of captain of a ship (capitan de navio). Further activities of Jorge Juan turned out to be related to shipbuilding and ... Spying.

The Adventures of Mr. Joseph in England


Despite the introduction of a fairly progressive Gastagnet system in Armada, the Spaniards continued to lose the battle at sea to the British. It was not possible to blame the rather mediocre and passive command for this, since such an option did not seem to occur to the Spanish elite (because they had to blame themselves), because the ships were assigned as the last ones. At the same time, the real facts were ignored that the ships built according to the Gastagneta system showed impressive results - the same battleship Glorioso, in proud solitude, managed to make noise during the war with Great Britain, causing many problems to the British, and the Princess ship captured from the Spaniards enthralled them completely, and served after the capture for another two decades. It was decided to find out how the winners build their ships, but they, of course, did not voluntarily intend to share their knowledge. And the Marquis de la Ensenada, without thinking twice, decided to send a spy to England, who was supposed to learn everything necessary, analyze the disadvantages and advantages of English shipbuilding, compare it with Spanish, recruit masters if possible, and return. The task was by no means an easy one, and its implementation required a smart and educated person. The Spanish envoy in London was already trying to accomplish this task, but failed. Just at that time, the marquise received Jorge Juan, and the choice fell on him. After receiving the documents of Mr. Joseph from Belgium, he went to hostile Britain. And there it began ...

Humanist, engineer, scientist, sailor. Jorge Juan and Santisilia

IV Duke of Bedford - a man whom Jorge Juan was very grateful for his assistance in espionage


In a matter of weeks, Jorge Juan visited all the major British shipyards and gained access to the drawings of all the latest British ships. This was achieved thanks to an extremely risky but completely self-justified step - as a foreign shipbuilder, Mr. Joses quickly made acquaintances with Admiral George Anson and the First Sea Lord John Russell, IV Duke of Bedford, dined with them at the same table, became their “dear friend ”and fell into the retinue of the latter, which freed him the way to almost any shipyard. Having created an espionage network in shipyards among local Catholics, he gradually began to recruit specialists from among them, who, due to their religion, had closed senior positions, and in a short time he recruited them as many as 54 people, and four of them were chief designers. In addition, he immediately began to encrypt the information obtained and forward it to the Spanish Embassy, ​​from where the information was sent home. The Royal Secret Service did not immediately discover this active exchange of information, and took up the head - some kind of spy was hunting in the country, and it was very successful! Realizing that there was a drain of information, but without deciphering the letters, the service immediately began to look for those responsible ... And she went to the Duke of Bedford, the former (at that time) First Sea Lord and a prominent politician! While the trial was going on, it was found out that Bedford was out of business, but somehow connected with the spy, while they figured out the suspiciousness of Mr. Joseph's identity, Jorge Juan, along with the information obtained, realizing that he was coming soon, left Britain aboard the Spanish ship “ Santa Ana. " In total, he stayed in the UK for about two years. The incident did not receive wide publicity, but those who were in the know experienced an exuberant bouquet of feelings in which anger, shame, indignation, and much more were guessed. The acuity of the situation was added by the fact that it was not even possible to establish exactly how and what exactly “jabbed” Joseph, and whether he was connected with the Duke Bedford, because of which he did not even suffer any punishment. Britain has never experienced such a shame for a long time. But unpleasant moments for English pride were just beginning.

Upon returning to Spain, Jorge Juan compiled a detailed report on the information obtained, where he also analyzed it and compared English shipbuilding with Spanish. It turned out that the Gastagneta system was much more progressive than the English shipbuilding, and, accordingly, the Spanish ships were better than the British. Particularly many complaints from Jorge Juan were caused by the quality of wood, tackle and mast, as well as the irrational distribution of goods and load items. On the other hand, shipbuilders of the Misty Albion had advantages. The main one was the broadest standardization and unification of tools, materials and structural elements in Royal Navy. The Gastagneta system also assumed a set of standard methods and designs of ships, but these were separate elements, while the British unified and standardized almost everything. This made components from different shipyards interchangeable, simplified ship repair, and also significantly reduced the cost and accelerated the construction process. In addition, the system of ensuring the tightness of the bottom was very advanced, and experiments were also carried out with copper cladding of the bottom, which slowed down fouling and improved the speed characteristics of ships. Particularly noted was the beginning of the use of steam engines in the production and operation of ports - still imperfect, but already yielding certain benefits. There were comments on artillery as well - the British loaded their ships more heavily with artillery, but at the same time the main battery was so low that it was almost impossible to use it in fresh weather. Marquis de la Ensenada, impressed by the work done, provided full patronage to all the undertakings of Jorge Juan, who was eager to continue to work in the field of science.

However, this did not mean that “Mr. Joseph” abandoned shipbuilding - on the contrary: he improved the Gastanyeta system on the basis of experience gained in England, introduced new rules and expanded production standards. Logging, production facilities were improved. Jorge Juan was entrusted with the modernization of old and the construction of new arsenals in Spain, as a result of which his ideas became the basis for the construction of magnificent Cartagena, Ferrol and La Carrac arsenals, as well as the Esteiro shipyard and a number of other shipbuilding enterprises. In everything he did, rationalism, cold calculation, and a scientific approach were at the forefront. In addition, he developed a project of beautiful 74 cannon ships, conducted experiments in Cadiz with ship contours, sails, and many others, improving the design of ships and methods of their construction every year.

The British, having learned about all this, without further ado appeared in Spain, and began to legal and illegal methods to find out the results of the work of Jorge Juan. In Cadiz, during tests of new, lightweight hulls and a sail system, even Admiral Richard Howe came in to observe the activities of the people of the Spanish scientist. The scale of the undertakings of Jorge Juan and the Marquis de la Ensenada impressed the British so much that they seriously became concerned about the problem that after several decades Spain could seriously compete with them (which, by the way, actually happened). This problem became especially acute in view of the fact that shipbuilding in Spain was experiencing a real boom from 1740 to 1760, and the current composition of the Armada increased every year, even taking into account the failure of old ships. In addition, having familiarized themselves with the Spanish analysis of English shipbuilding, which the English spies managed to get, the people from the Foggy Albion again experienced something reminiscent of shame and humiliation, for, with the exception of certain points, the Spaniards very low rated their shipbuilding industry, which Britain was proud of. It was decided to act secretly, with the help of intrigue, false letters and fabricated information, in order to cause maximum damage to the Spaniards. The British ambassador in Madrid, Benjamin Keen, began to implement a similar strategy, and it quickly yielded results. The Marquis de la Ensenada was discredited, and lost the post of Secretary of State, and with it most of his influence. Conducting a double correspondence, and palm off the Spanish that was false, the British convinced the new Minister of the Sea of ​​Spain, Julian de Arriaga, that they considered criticizing their shipbuilding Jorge Juan untenable, and the system he developed along with the Gastagneta system was frankly inferior to the English. At the same time, the British themselves borrowed a large number of innovations from Spanish shipbuilding practice, improving their own shipbuilding, but information about this was in the second, secret part of the correspondence. Arriaga, being a francophile, let himself be convinced by this false correspondence, and actually negated the use of the Jorge Juan system, everywhere introducing the French Gauthier system, about which “Mr. Josephes” dismissively said that “Gauthier builds excellent sailboats, but bad warships” . As a result of this, a significant part of the work of Jorge Juan in the field of ship construction was temporarily forgotten in Spain, but gained distribution in the UK. However, no one was going to cancel the rest of his innovations, as well as to interfere with his further scientific activity, because after 1754 of the year he concentrated mainly on it.

Once again, science


The list of cases in which Jorge Juan left his mark is truly amazing. Moving from place to place, he actively followed the instructions of the government, providing support and ensuring the effective implementation of various projects. Under his leadership, canals and dams were built, the work of mines was established, he managed to work as a minister of the main department of trade and currency. In 1757, following the instructions of King Carlos III, he drafted and supervised the construction of the Royal Observatory in Madrid, and then proposed to build the same in Cadiz, for the needs of Armada - this project, alas, was realized only after the death of Jorge Juan. He had to deal with the issues of mapping, in which he managed to achieve great success, as a result of which Jorge Juan actually became one of the founders of Spanish cartography in its modern form. In 1760, he was appointed to command the Armada combat squadron, where he showed himself to be a competent and decisive commander, and a good organizer. However, his diplomatic skills began to be celebrated even more - and in 1767 he was made ambassador extraordinary in Morocco, where it was necessary to hold tough negotiations with the Sultan and achieve Spanish interests. The contract concluded by Jorge Juan, and consisting of 19 clauses, fully and fully satisfied all these interests, for which he was especially noted by Carlos III. Moreover, while in a country neighboring Spain, he collected a large amount of secret information about her, which later was very useful to diplomats and politicians. In the last years of his life, he managed to send a large scientific expedition led by Vicente Dosa to the shores of California, which, among other things, was to accurately determine the parallax of the Sun and the distance from it to the Earth. The results of this expedition were close to ideal, and put an end to scientific debate about the size of the solar system.


Royal Observatory of Madrid, built with the participation of Jorge Juan


In 1771, Jorge Juan finished writing his capital work on shipbuilding, and published it under the title Examen Marítimo. In it, using the results of his practical experiments, as well as mathematical analysis and the experience of shipbuilding systems in Britain and Gastagneta, he considered so many questions regarding shipbuilding that, in terms of volume and fundamental nature, the “Exam” eclipsed even the work of Gastanieta. The work talked about astronomy, navigation, artillery, technologies and organization of construction, the dynamics of ships, stability, the effects of waves on hulls of different designs and strengths, and much more. In fact, this was the result of his whole life, the result of all developments on the topic of shipbuilding and everything that was connected with it. Instantly, the “Exam” was translated into most European languages, and spread to the libraries of the entire mainland. This work was highly appreciated, its developments and fabrications were used for the further development of shipbuilding - but in Spain he met resistance: the French influence remained too strong, the false negative reviews of the British about the activities of Jorge Juan too clearly remembered. Seeing this, the scientist wrote a letter to King Carlos III in 1773, and in a very harsh form, focusing on the fact that the dominance of the French shipbuilding system could lead to disastrous consequences. Alas, the king did not have time to respond to this letter, and Jorge Juan did not receive an answer or any sanctions because of such an act, because in the same year he died. The reason for this was a tremendous hard work - doing everything at once, making a contribution to the development of his native Spain, he undermined his health, suffered from many diseases, and another convulsive biliary colic finished him off. Now his ashes rest in the Pantheon of outstanding sailors in San Fernando, near Cadiz.

Post Scriptum


Jorge Juan died, Carlos III did not give an answer to his letter, but the hype surrounding the Examen Marítimo did not cease. In the end, it was already impossible to ignore it, especially after the book was translated and published in England, where she received a rather warm welcome. They remembered the system developed by Jorge Juan, but rejected by the ministries, and his criticism of the Gauthier system. And the point was not that Gauthier’s ships were very bad - it’s just that the Spaniards have long been accustomed to sailing ships with strong, wide hulls and thick skin, while Gauthier’s ships were typical Frenchmen with a lightweight hull and an increased ratio of length to width, which It provided good speed and maneuverability, but it caused problems in battle, and sometimes in a storm too. Already in 1771 in the Spanish naval environment, voices began to be heard about the revision of the rate in shipbuilding on the French system, which everyone began to consider obsolete. As a result of this, in 1772, the last ship of this system, the 74 cannon San Gabriel, was laid down, and further construction was carried out according to "standard" projects that did not fully utilize any of the shipbuilding systems available in Spain. The reason for this was both conservatism and the fact that Francisco Gautier, the author of the rejected French system, was a rather arrogant man and did not want to recognize the superiority of the Spanish system over his own, remained the general engineer of Armada. But in the 1782 year he was "left", and in his place came first Jose Romero and Fernandez de Landa, and then Julian Martin de Retamosa. Both were Spaniards, both did not feel much reverence for the French system, but they were familiar with the system of Jorge Juan. As a result, when these engineers began to create their own ship designs, the magnificent 112-gun “Santa Ana”, 64-gun “San Ildefonso” (the lead ship carried 74 guns), and the 74-gun “Montanes” everything else developed fantastic speeds for its size and had maneuverability no worse than a frigate. All of them became magnificent warships, all of them deserved enthusiastic assessments from the British - and, with a high degree of probability, all of them were the result of the theory developed by Jorge Juan, although I did not find direct evidence to this. Alas, he did not receive a deserving recognition as a shipbuilder in the era of wood and sail.

But as a scientist, he received widespread recognition, becoming, among other things, the "grandfather of the metric system" and the man who significantly improved navigation in Spain. He was friends with another prominent sailor, Don Antonio de Ulloa, and also somehow met and collaborated with many prominent sailors and scientists of Spain and France of his time. As for his English voyage, they still do not like to remember him in Great Britain, and in the biographies of his English participants like the Duke of Bedford, there is not a word that he contributed to the leakage of military secrets abroad. However, such a puncture as a result turned around for the British in a positive way, allowing us to review and update our own shipbuilding system. Today, in honor of Jorge Juan, a school is named, the streets of many cities, its monuments are in the squares. Also in honor of Jorge Juan was named a destroyer of the Churruk type, built in the middle of the 20th century, and the portrait was placed on the back of a bill in 10 thousand pesetas. He did not have a wife, as well as children, because the oath of a knight of the Order of Malta, which he gave following the example of his uncle, prevented him. These are the results of the activities of this bright, extraordinary and extremely intelligent person who left his mark on the history of Europe in the middle of the 18th century.

To be continued ...
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  1. +3
    17 August 2019 18: 34
    If a person is talent, then he is talented in everything ...
    1. +4
      18 August 2019 00: 27
      Many thanks to the author! hi Enough original and interesting article! good I looked at all the publications of the author and was surprised, they are all almost devoted to Spain. Looks like Artyom is a specialist in the history of this state.
      1. +7
        18 August 2019 00: 35
        Quote: Proxima
        Looks like Artyom is a specialist in the history of Spain.

        Rather a fan hi A specialist does not dare to call himself - there are no corresponding diplomas, and which of me is a specialist, if I know today by orders of magnitude more than I knew a year ago, but by orders of magnitude less than I will know in a year? So when I will know enough information on all the main topics - then I’ll be called a specialist laughing
        1. +2
          18 August 2019 01: 01
          Quote: arturpraetor
          Today I know by orders of magnitude more than I knew a year ago, but by orders of magnitude less than I will know in a year?

          Wow! belay With such intellectual progress, I already imagine what articles you will have in a year! Probably like: "Horse breeding in Aragon during the Visigothic kingdom." recourse
          1. +1
            18 August 2019 01: 13
            No, with the Visigoths, while I limit myself, it’s not very interesting. Since the time of the Catholic Kings, and somewhere in modern times - yes, that's another matter bully I threw this topic several times already, but Spain still pulls me back. It all began with an alternative story. wassat
            1. +4
              18 August 2019 11: 11
              Another interesting article written in good language. Thank you Artem.
              Quote: arturpraetor
              but still pulling me back to Spain.

              But since childhood, I have not liked the Spaniards. Most likely, because they offended the Indians, somewhere in the subconscious there was antipathy towards them. Now I understand that everything was somewhat different from what I thought, and the Indians were offended not only by the Spaniards, but by the Spaniards - not only by the Indians, but in general everyone who could offend someone, always did it with desire and pleasure, but do it with their own I can’t feel anything - Spain remains for me a country of "unpleasant" people, descendants of ruthless and unscrupulous conquistadors.
              Even when I watch football against the Spaniards I get sick first. smile
              1. +6
                18 August 2019 13: 32
                Quote: Trilobite Master
                Most likely, because they offended the Indians, somewhere in the subconscious mind there remained antipathy to them.

                A consequence of the "Black Legend", which, by the way, in Soviet historiography, as far as I know, was quite popular. The Spaniards just at one time strongly interfered, if not everyone, then almost everyone - the French, the Dutch, the British. So they began to show them ... Although the Spaniards - the only oneswho included the Indians in their colonial society almost immediately after the creation of their colonies, while the French, British and Dutch, and from the habitable places, drove them away and did not shun massacres. Yes, it happened in different ways with the Spaniards, and because of the mentality, if there is some bitterness in the confrontation, they can take the head off completely, but you look what remains of the Indians in North America (reservations, extremely low numbers) - and what happened to them in Latin (actually served as the basis for the formation of modern Latin American nations along with Creoles). In my opinion, after this, blaming the Spaniards for being the worst is somehow difficult.
                1. +3
                  18 August 2019 20: 05
                  Quote: arturpraetor
                  Consequence of the "Black Legend",

                  It is possible and very likely that it is so.
                  But here another mechanism comes into play: "either he stole, or from him, but the sediment remained ..." smile
                  I will be enlightened and "drop by drop" will squeeze out all sorts of delusions. smile
                2. +4
                  18 August 2019 21: 07
                  Yes! A thousand times yes!
              2. +3
                18 August 2019 21: 05
                This is a standard stereotype, inspired by the centuries-old activities of the Masters of the West. laughing
            2. 0
              19 August 2019 12: 08
              Quote: arturpraetor
              No, with the Visigoths, while I limit myself, it’s not very interesting. Since the time of the Catholic Kings, and somewhere in modern times - yes, that's another matter bully I threw this topic several times already, but Spain still pulls me back. It all began with an alternative story. wassat

              Artyom, thanks a great article!
  2. +9
    17 August 2019 18: 45
    Thank you very much for the story of Jorge Juan and Santisilia. Extraordinary was a man.
    He still had a fortune, and, after all, how many people were not appreciated in the homeland or even worse accused of any mythical crimes
    1. +8
      17 August 2019 18: 54
      Quote: vladcub
      He still had a fortune, and, after all, how many people were not appreciated in the homeland or even worse accused of any mythical crimes

      This, by the way, is the difference between Bourbonovo Spain and Habsburg - in the latter, usually such bright and versatile personalities did not finish very well, which even became a kind of national stereotype. Under the Bourbons, however, people might not have been universally recognized, but they didn’t feel much trickery on a personal level, at least in the 18th century. And as a result - a gorgeous bouquet of bright, smart, versatile historical personalities, especially from among the officers of the Armada. Not that the Habsburgs had problems with bright personalities, but still, nevertheless ...
      1. +6
        17 August 2019 20: 38
        I join the namesake comment! Thanks Artyom, we look forward to continuing !!!
        Regards, Vlad!
        1. +4
          17 August 2019 20: 42
          The sequel has already been uploaded to the site, tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, I think it will be published feel
        2. 0
          19 August 2019 12: 16
          Quote: Kote Pan Kokhanka
          I join the namesake comment! Thanks Artyom, we look forward to continuing !!!
          Regards, Vlad!

          Hello hello, I threw Shpakov’s little idea here and he replied that the article was already worked out. Waiting for you in discussions
          1. +1
            19 August 2019 18: 35
            Whistle !!! I'm already digging the earth with my paws impatiently !!!
  3. +1
    17 August 2019 19: 16
    These are the donors like Jorge Juan in the Admiralty in Argentina, in modern history 82-83. It is a pity that he was a Freemason, although he was also a zealous Catholic. In general, Spain was supposed to be the "ruler of the seas" and not England. But the Anglo-Saxons, as always, used the services of criminal elements.
  4. +4
    17 August 2019 20: 39
    Colleagues, don’t you think that: "the Joses system" and the Duke of Bedford is not what he asks for, but shouts: where, Dumas or Shtilmark with Colins? After all, a gorgeous novel can be written!
    Author, do you know how Jorge Juan got to the Duke of Bedford? It is unlikely that the first lord of the admiralty invited to dine with him. To "bring" Joses to Bedford, a great deal of work of Spanish intelligence was probably done. Of course, in the then Spain there was no Secret Interview Service or any other service, but I'm sure that the Spaniards had their agents in England.
    1. +3
      17 August 2019 20: 55
      Author, do you know how Jorge Juan got to the Duke of Bedford? It is unlikely that the first lord of the admiralty was inviting himself to dine.

      The author is not even sure about the voiced version of Mr. Joseph's adventures in England request More precisely, it seems like it was just like that, but the further I dug, the more details and differences in different sources. And, most importantly, in Bedford’s biography there are no notes on his detention, arrest, that he was associated with spies from Spain, etc. That’s pretty muddy, because after several rewrites of this story, I just left the latest version as it has the right to life according to Spanish sources.

      How Jorge Juan went to Bedford - I do not know, but I can assume two options:
      1) "Accidental" acquaintance and the hanging tongue of "Mr. Joses". As far as I understand, Juan had diplomacy in his blood, if he was in Morocco, in unfavorable conditions for himself, he forced the Sultan to sign an agreement with 19 Spanish demands. That is, they met somewhere, got into a conversation, Joses hinted that he was from Flanders, and how a shipbuilder is interested in English shipyards, well, there is even closer acquaintance, a couple of drops of rum - and away we go ...
      2) Bedford was still a "socialite" and a lover of cricket, during his tenure as First Sea Lord, he rarely visited the office, and gave orders from his country estate, where he held "corporate parties". So everything can be downright obscene - Jorge Juan and Bedford indulged in abundant libations and rolled balls (or whatever they do in cricket), on the basis of which they became friends, well, then ...

      It’s all on condition that Bedford is involved at all - because, as I said, the story is very muddy. But personally, I have no doubt that some British bump is involved here, no - Jorge Juan got to the shipyard too quickly and easily, literally a week after his arrival in England, and then either Bedford or the next First Sea Lord (Mr. Sandwich, inventor of a dish named after his beloved, if I remember correctly).
      1. +1
        17 August 2019 21: 38
        Author, 1) Duke of Bedford - You are not some modest engineer or naval officer, you would have arrested them without special ceremonies, and then a member of the government. You will need a document signed by the king or, more realistically, the prime minister.
        2) if the Duke of Bedford, of course he was not a Spanish agent, was somehow "smeared", then he was least of all interested in talking about it. As an example: the assassination of Emperor Paul1, NONE of the immediate assassins: Zubov, Palen or Benegsen were in no hurry to describe what happened: "at 12 am on March 1801, XNUMX, I am such and such and Platon Zubov or Palen, killed Emperor Paul." So is Bedford
        1. +4
          17 August 2019 21: 51
          You are not some modest engineer or naval officer, you would have arrested them without special ceremonies, but here you are a member of the government.

          Nevertheless, in some sources there is information even about the arrest, but there are no specific primary sources attached to them, so he removed the mention of the arrest from the story. For example, Mr. Joseph’s espionage story was told by Makhov, and Bedford was arrested there. But he, however, the story is generally very different from what I saw among the Spaniards.
          if the Duke of Bedford, of course he was not a Spanish agent, was somehow "smeared", then he was least of all interested in talking about it.

          It is true, but if his participation in these matters had been established (and if he had been involved in the case, then it would have been known - Jorge Juan was practically "covered", and his connections were established), then this would immediately affect the career of the duke, which in reality did not happen. However, there is one point that cannot be explained in any way - Bedford was dismissed from another high position in 1751, and he returned to the "big game" already in 1757. But there can be anything - maybe I didn't dig deep enough, maybe this is a consequence of intrigues in the British government, or maybe they really were temporarily excommunicated from the "big game" for shoals with espionage, because just in 1750, about a year before Bradford's resignation, Jorge Juan left Britain. There is little indirect evidence, I did not find direct evidence.
          1. +1
            17 August 2019 22: 17
            There is little indirect evidence; I have not found direct evidence.

            Which is not at all surprising. Who will recognize such shoals ??
            1. +6
              17 August 2019 22: 25
              The British themselves generally described everything amusingly in this regard - yes, he came to us, yes, he was (we have a free country), yes, he visited shipyards (we have a very free country), yes, he leafed through and copied secret drawings of the latest military courts ( we have such a free country), yes, I stole fifty skilled personnel (does it really have such a free country?!?), and dumped it over the horizon. And what is this? We have a free country! All sorts of intrigues and espionage stories are simply omitted, everything turns into a simple open visit, albeit as an anonymus. Nothing personal, just business. With secret drawings, apparently, too.
              1. +2
                17 August 2019 22: 34
                Duc about this and speech. How else can you tell them to describe ?? "Everything is lost, chief, everything is lost" ?? So here everything is comme il faut, as they could, and got out. True, they could also contribute to other applicants)))
              2. +2
                18 August 2019 07: 12
                As Philip the Macedonian said, "a donkey laden with gold will take any fortress." So, in my opinion, the Spaniards opened the wallet wider and poured in more, it is unlikely that Bedford or another bump was overwhelmed by friendly feelings that Jorge buried his head in English secrets. And then the necessary people, of lower rank, were also sent "by rank." Gold has worked wonders at all times. A truly miraculous metal.
                1. +3
                  18 August 2019 13: 36
                  It could be the same. Although, I think, Mr. Josés didn’t act only with gold - if you actively litter it with money, it would attract the attention of anyone who needed it, but they just didn’t manage to figure it out and catch it, although he had been in England for about two years. Well, or Mr. Jorge Joseph bribed everyone so skillfully that they did not have time to figure out what had just happened and who it was, which was also like aerobatics laughing
      2. +1
        17 August 2019 21: 45
        "Jorge Juan got to the shipyard too easily and quickly", you can see for yourself that there is a muddy history, and therefore Spanish sources do not exaggerate
  5. +2
    18 August 2019 11: 50
    The article was written lively, interesting, but struck differently.
    About Armadu it happened to read many times and a lot - about how Tsar Peter learned to build ships in Holland. How much it was said that Peter himself waved an ax! As a result, it seemed that to build a large sailboat is to take a log, trim it, put a lot of such trimmed logs and boards together in the right way, that is, by eye - at the discretion of the master, fasten them with nails, here you have the ship! And the films supported this idea: on the beach there was a wooden skeleton around which men with axes scurried around, and then a huge ship decorated with carvings was quickly launched into the water.
    And so, it turned out that building a large sailing ship is a whole science and even a scientific school, involving serious calculations, research, prototype testing and even standardization of components. Again - scientists, designers, engineers, experienced workers. It sounds somehow very modern, but all this was in medieval Spain. And sometimes you read about some modern Spanish university, about mathematicians of the current Spanish, and one wonders: what kind of science can there be in Spain, and even mathematics. Well, Castile, rocky plateaus, dons, infants, the Inquisition, Goya, Velazquez, Cervantes, architecture ... It turns out that maybe there is mathematics, maybe. The roots are there.
    Thanks to the author!
    1. +4
      18 August 2019 13: 48
      Quote: depressant
      As a result, it seemed that to build a large sailboat is to take a log, trim it, put a lot of such trimmed logs and boards together in the right way, that is, by eye - at the discretion of the master, fasten them with nails, here you have the ship!

      Strictly speaking, one can build like that. But such a sailboat does not sail for long, and its characteristics will not be very good. For example, running characteristics - speed, maneuverability, controllability strongly depended on build quality and materials. In the Russian-Turkish wars, we had problems with this (about how ships were built on the Black Sea at that time there were legends, there was a cycle on the site about the Black Sea shipbuilding - there is even a truncated story, let's say, it’s impressive), and the Turks bought French ships - as a result of which many battles, which were supposed to end in complete defeat and the Nth amount of trophies, ended with a drape of the Turkish fleet, for their ships even beaten were faster than ours.
      Quote: depressant
      And so, it turned out that to build a large sailing ship is a whole science and even a scientific school, involving serious calculations, research, prototype testing and even standardization of components. Again - scientists, designers, engineers, experienced workers.

      Exactly. Shipbuilding at that time was a powerful engine of industry, because it was associated with many narrower specialties - casting cannons, make ropes, dry wood, make accurate navigation devices, make a canvas, etc. All this gave many jobs and a powerful impetus for the development of the economy in principle. In our time, this trend continues.
      Quote: depressant
      Thanks to the author!

      Thank you hi
  6. +2
    18 August 2019 12: 48
    I liked the article very much. It is such narrowly targeted materials without speculative and strained appeals to the present that adorn the resource.
    I was very surprised to learn that the British had problems with shipbuilding regarding the preparation of timber. The reloading of English sailing ships by artillery has long been a commonplace in literature. BUT in terms of selection, aging, drying, it seemed to me that they had no equal. Ships went a hundred years or more. Makhov had an article about the preparation of ship timber, transportation conditions, etc. It followed that quality assurance measures were unprecedented. Unfortunately, I don’t remember what period that material belonged to.
    In general, it follows from the article that Grand Fleet won more from the hero’s activities. His ideas benefited the British more than the Spaniards. Such a grimace of fortune.
    1. +4
      18 August 2019 14: 09
      Quote: Engineer
      I was very surprised to learn that the British had problems with shipbuilding regarding the preparation of timber. The reloading of English sailing ships by artillery has long been a commonplace in literature. BUT in terms of selection, aging, drying, it seemed to me that they had no equal. Ships went a hundred years or more. Makhov had an article about the preparation of ship timber, transportation conditions, etc.

      Makhov has a lot of articles on this topic, for there is a lot to talk about. The British really had their own standards for wood preparation, quite high by the standards of their time, but they were ruined by one thing - a strong dependence on imports. This meant that the tree was harvested by other people who usually do not care about the complexity and small details. For example, in no case should a tree be transported from felling sites to ports by rafting, it is necessary to minimize contact with moisture, store it under a canopy. Of course, in many countries such nuances were powerfully hammered, in our country - even more so, because if not by alloy, then the logistics costs were generally colossal. American wood was not suitable because of the local woody animals (I don’t remember exactly, like a fungus), which, when the tree was dried, began to be completely ferocious, and turned the material into something rotten and clearly unsuitable for shipbuilding. And there are many such reservations. The Spaniards in this regard, in the XNUMXth century, perhaps lagged behind the British, but after Gastagneta things improved significantly, and most importantly, the noble Dons had their sources of magnificent wood, American mahogany and Spanish oak, which, coupled with a love of thick-skinned ships sometimes it gave a completely unexpected result ("Glorioso" who just didn’t work from their cannons, and he surrendered in fact only when the ammunition ran out, the body remained relatively intact).

      As for "walking for a hundred years or more," not all of them. Yes, there were some, but firstly, the British actively practiced timbering (overhaul with the replacement of dilapidated wood, in fact, the renovation of the ship), and secondly, this usually happened with ships that were lucky to be originally built from good materials. The British also had ships that served no more than ours, for example. Only EMNIP was able to finally put in order the supply of timber to Great Britain by the beginning of the XNUMXth century, before that, there were very different things.
      Quote: Engineer
      In general, it follows from the article that Grand Fleet won more from the hero’s activities. His ideas benefited the British more than the Spaniards. Such a grimace of fortune.

      Yes and no. The British drew conclusions from Jorge Juan's practice, but either production technology or British pride prevented them from developing this topic. Of course, they improved their ships, but the main theme of Jorge Juan, the dependence of the dynamic characteristics of the ship on materials, hull lines, and the most effective configurations of sailing equipment, were revealed in Spain, just after the death of Jorge Juan himself, while the British continued to rivet "irons", albeit somewhat faster and more maneuverable. As far as I can judge, on the basis of his work, the Montanes project was developed, and this is a completely unique ship for its time with the displacement and armament of a battleship, and the dynamic characteristics of a frigate, and a good one. Speed ​​in fair weather up to 14 knots! Average - 10-11! Yes, the "Victoria" has a maximum speed of 11 knots only reached! And this with a very strong hull, excellent seaworthiness and excellent maneuverability! The British EMNIP did not have such ships even later.
      1. 0
        18 August 2019 14: 36
        Thank you for your response
        Montanes it's still 74 guns. Victory much more powerful.
        Mahogany is a song, I agree. The pinnacle of this "Santissima Trinidad"
        I did not understand a little thought with irons. If the ship is a little faster and more maneuverable, then it is no longer an iron in my understanding). Especially with the strength and seaworthiness of the British, it is also traditionally good.
        PR Glorioso disagrees. The British beat him so that they were not recovering and sent him for scrapping.
        1. +1
          18 August 2019 14: 46
          Quote: Engineer
          Montanes is still 74 guns.

          Nevertheless, the English 74-cannon ships did not produce such dynamics - usually the same 11-12 maximum speed nodes, and maneuverability is clearly worse than that of frigates.
          Quote: Engineer
          Victory is much more powerful.

          The Santa Ana were also very good battleships. I cannot say with certainty, but their speed was at the level of the Victoria, and the maneuverability was even better - despite the fact that the Spaniard is more than a thousand tons heavier than the Victoria. One of the Santa Ana sisterships was taken as a trophy even before Trafalgar, and served in Royal Navy as a flagship for several decades, the name only forgotten.
          Quote: Engineer
          The pinnacle of this "Santissima Trinidad"

          Not certainly in that way. "Santisima Trinidad" at the time of Trafalgar - old. Meanwhile, many new ships were built from mahogany, including the "Principe de Asturias" - the flagship of Gravina, the sister ship of "Santa Ana".
          Quote: Engineer
          I did not understand a little thought with irons. If the ship is a little faster and more maneuverable, then it is no longer an iron in my understanding).

          Duc is faster and more maneuverable by English standards, and Spanish and French ships still remained on average somewhat faster and slightly more maneuverable.
          Quote: Engineer
          Especially with the strength and seaworthiness of the British is also traditionally good

          Like the Spaniards. The French had problems with this - as far as I know, many ships had too "light" hulls, which were deformed over time, and in battle they did not show the same fortress as the English and Spanish. That is, a newly built ship will, of course, show good performance, but after a couple of years it may already be dangerously released into the open sea. The British, at least having captured the French giant "The Merchant of Marseille", were, to put it mildly, not happy with it. The rest of the "golden sea trinity" did not have such problems, except with the old Spanish ships of the French shipbuilder Gaultier, but I have no specific information about such defects in his offspring.
          1. 0
            18 August 2019 14: 56
            It’s very difficult to write objectively about the maneuverability of sailing ships. This is primarily the training of the crew. Under Trafalgar, the same Santa Anna was re-maneuvered by Royal Sauverin, who cut through the ranks and blew her poop.
            I also heard that the French used raw boards for cladding. Shorter service life, but friction reduced in addition to low cost
            1. +1
              18 August 2019 15: 10
              Quote: Engineer
              It’s very difficult to write objectively about the maneuverability of sailing ships.

              Well, the Spaniards wrote about the maneuverability of the "Montanes" long before the catastrophic decline in the quality of the rank and file (despite the fact that it was "no ice" anyway), and the British did not seem to have any complaints about the sistership of "Santa Ana". So, I see no reason to doubt these declared characteristics. But these are the characteristics of strictly the ship itself, the project and the quality of its construction, and the implementation of these characteristics is a matter of the quality of training of rank and file personnel, and here the Spaniards already have a sad story.
              Quote: Engineer
              I also heard that the French used raw boards for cladding. Shorter service life, but friction reduced in addition to low cost

              I don’t know about this; French shipbuilding was considered by me mainly in its Spanish manifestations. As I know, experienced Spanish shipbuilders were not enthusiastic about French ships, even more so than the British (there were much more positive ratings) - the Spaniards got used to thick-skinned ships with strong hulls, which the French did not observe.
      2. 0
        18 August 2019 22: 54
        But what about Endymion? True, it was built on the carefully studied and copied French trophy "Pomona", but you also need to be able to write off. And the Spaniards also had unsuccessful projects, the same "Cintisima Trinidad" materials are excellent - the embodiment is not very good.
        1. +2
          18 August 2019 23: 18
          So I did not say that the British did not have fast and good ships smile They just usually built medium-sized station wagons, not bad, but not great either. The French sought the best characteristics of speed and maneuverability, while the Spaniards sought fortresses of the corps. And after the studies of Jorge Juan, the Spaniards could make very strong cases with good dynamic characteristics, and in large quantities. In modern English ships, on average, these characteristics were worse, but this does not mean at all that they were bad.

          "Santisima Trinidad" is simply not the best concept, 5 thousand tons of displacement is a lot for its time, lines, sails and hull structures have not yet been worked out to the required extent. "Santa Ana" was only slightly smaller (by 100-200 tons approximately), but the sailing armament and the theoretical drawing of the hull were licked as much as possible, therefore the ship had good dynamic characteristics. The British, the French, and even the Russians later built ships of similar sizes ("The Twelve Apostles", for example), but by that time the necessary technologies were already in place to make the hulls sufficiently dynamic, and not with such irons as the Santisima Trinidad.
          1. +1
            19 August 2019 07: 22
            Yes, the Angles built middle peasants, but in large batches and took the number and training of crews. It is a pity that the Montanes did not become the leader in the series of "workhorses" of the Spanish fleet. At least a dozen. And so ... Well, an outstanding ship, but that's all.
            1. +1
              19 August 2019 13: 18
              Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
              Yes, the Angles built the middle peasants, but in large series they took the number and training of crews.

              Exactly. For mass, the English approach to the quality of ships turned out to be the most suitable, the lag for some characteristics was overlapped by the training of the crews, and there were no characteristics with a fatal lag (or were, but secondary).
              Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
              It is a pity that "Montanes" did not become the lead in the series of "workhorses" of the Spanish fleet.

              In all fairness, I don't think it would have changed anything globally. And so - only three ships close in design, which can be conventionally called one series ... But he appeared later than others - already in 1794, in the era of Carlos IV, when shipbuilding generally bent every year. Such is the "swan song" ... But, at the same time, there is a lot of room for work for me, an alternative.
  7. 0
    18 August 2019 14: 29
    Why did Trafalgar lose?
    1. 0
      18 August 2019 14: 33
      Ships are better, ships are better .... Naval commanders ... talent for talent. But Horatio didn’t give a damn, right?
      1. +3
        18 August 2019 14: 37
        Of course, everything is written exactly in the text. laughing

        Spain, especially after a long alliance with France, had a terrible lack of funds, plus mediocre training of the rank and file in combat, plus problems with recruiting this same rank and file. Of course, the British team also consisted of all rabble, but their rabble was well prepared, and the Spaniards specifically in Trafalgar were partially unprepared at all, because the teams lost their numbers due to an epidemic while standing in Cadiz with recent recruitment kits horrible. Plus Villeneuve contributed to the English problem. As in many other cases, the staff decided everything. But this does not mean that Spain had bad officers, shipbuilders and naval commanders.
  8. 0
    20 August 2019 15: 13
    It was decided to act secretly, with the help of intrigue, false letters and fabricated information, in order to cause maximum damage to the Spaniards.
    Impudent Saxons in their traditional repertoire.

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