Military Review

August Counterattack of the Southern Front

34
Smoot. 1919 year. 100 years ago, in August of 1919, the August counter-offensive of the Southern Front began. The Red Army tried to defeat the main group of the army of Denikin and free the lower reaches of the Don. The main blow from the areas north of Novokhopyorsk and Kamyshin in the general direction to Rostov-on-Don was dealt by the Shorin Special Group, an auxiliary strike from the Liski region to Kupyansk was the Selivyachev strike group.


August Counterattack of the Southern Front

"Red" armored train named after Lenin in the Donbass. 1919 year

Situation at the front


By the beginning of July 1919, the White Guard Armed Forces of the South of Russia, led by Denikin, inflicted a heavy defeat on the red Southern Front. The whites captured most of the Donetsk basin, Crimea, Kharkov, the Don region and Tsaritsyn, and developed an offensive further to the north and in Little Russia. 3 July 1919 Denikin issued the Moscow Directive, where the ultimate goal was the capture of Moscow. The Wrangel’s Caucasian army advanced in the Saratov area; Don army of Sidorin - strike in the Voronezh direction; The May-Mayevsky volunteer army is in the Kursk direction, and part of the forces is to the west.

However, in July 1919, the White Army was not able to achieve significant success. This was due to a number of factors. Military historians note the weak mobilization potential of the All-Union Socialist League, the relatively small number of whites who had to control a huge region, extended communications and an extended front; dispersion of forces when the White Guards advanced in three directions; disagreements within the white command — Denikin, Wrangel and the command of the Don Army had their own vision of the development of the offensive; the Bolsheviks continued to control the most populated and industrially developed provinces of the center of Russia, were able to mobilize countries to repulse the whites - “Everything to fight Denikin!”; the Reds were able by emergency measures to quickly restore the combat capability of the Southern Front, deployed reinforcements from central Russia and the Eastern Front, where Kolchak’s army suffered a heavy defeat and no longer posed a great threat.

On July 15, the Southern Front under the command of Egoriev consisted of about 160 thousand bayonets and sabers, an 541 gun, then its number was brought to 180 thousand people and about 900 guns. In addition, tens of thousands of fighters were in fortified areas and spare parts. The White armies of the All-Union Federal League of Forces totaled about 115 - 120 thousand people and 300 - 350 guns.

The White Army did not have enough forces and means to develop the first success. The first enthusiasm began to fade, numerous internal contradictions and disagreements began to emerge. The resistance of the Red Army increased significantly, hopes for the internal weakness of the Bolshevik regime and the final collapse of the red Southern Front did not materialize. The Bolsheviks and Red commanders quickly studied, and drew many tsarist generals and officers to their side. The Red Army became a real regular army, continuing the traditions of the Russian army.

Therefore, in July, the pace of the offensive of the army of Denikin fell significantly. From the middle of July, the red Southern Front tried to counterattack. These attempts did not lead to success, but suspended the advance of Denikin. On 28 of July, the Wrangel’s Caucasian army took Kamyshin and advanced north. Sidorin’s Don army was not only unable to move forward, but during the stubborn battles that were with varying success, it was pushed aside, lost Liski and Balashov, and left behind Don. As a result, the attempts of the offensive of the Caucasian and Don armies choked.

Only in the west, in Little Russia, did White achieve notable successes. On July 31, whites took Poltava, in the southwest they defeated the Reds in Northern Tavria and west of Yekaterinoslav. Continuing the offensive, the whites on August 11 reached the line Gadyach - Kremenchug - Znamenka - Elizavetgrad. Having discovered a rather low combat efficiency of the Western troops of the Southern Front (12th and 14th Red Armies), Denikin adjusted his strategy. Without canceling the previous tasks of the Moscow Directive, on August 12 a new directive was issued. Denikin ordered the May-Mayevsky Volunteer Army to keep the Znamenka area, and General Schilling's 3rd Army Corps, with the support of the White Black Sea fleet to capture Kherson, Nikolaev and Odessa. A Bredov group is being formed for an attack on Kiev. The success of the offensive to the west made it possible to create a common anti-Bolshevik front with Poland. On August 18, Denikin’s army broke through the red front in New Russia. The 12th Red Army was utterly defeated. On August 23-24, White took Odessa, on August 31 - Kiev.


Volunteers entering a given city. Source: https://ru.wikipedia.org

Preparation of the counteroffensive of the Southern Front


In early August 1919, the Reds stopped the White Army's advance to the north. After that, the Red Army began to prepare a counterattack. First, Commander-in-Chief Wacetis proposed delivering the main blow in the Kharkov direction with the forces of the 14, 13 and 8 armies. An auxiliary strike between the Volga and the Don was to be delivered by the 9 and 10 armies. The position of Wacetis was supported by Trotsky. The commander of the Southern Front, Vladimir Yegoryev (former tsarist general), proposed delivering the main blow from the Novokhopyorsk-Kamyshin region in the direction of the lower Khoper and lower Don. And in the Kharkov direction only to conduct defense.

The new commander-in-chief, Kamenev, who replaced Wacetis, proposed delivering the main blow on the left flank of the Southern Front in the direction of the lower reaches of the Don. This decision was associated with the location of the troops, for an attack on Kharkov it was necessary to carry out an additional regrouping of forces. This plan was approved by the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party, despite Trotsky's objections.

Thus, the general concept of the operation was to advance the troops of the left flank of the Southern Front from the area north of Novokhopyorsk and Kamyshin to Novocherkassk and Rostov-on-Don. For this, on 23 of July, a Special Group was formed in the Don direction under the leadership of Shorin. Vasily Shorin was an experienced commander - a former colonel of the tsarist army, commander of the 2 Army on the Eastern Front of the Northern Group of the Eastern Front, led the Perm and Yekaterinburg operation to defeat the Kolchak troops. The composition of his group included the 9 and 10 armies, the equestrian corps of Budyonny, Penza, Saratov and Tambov fortified areas, reserve units, and the Volga-Caspian flotilla from August 12. Shorin's special group at first consisted of about 45 thousand bayonets and sabers with 200 guns, then its number grew to over 80 thousand people, more than 300 guns and 22 ships.

An auxiliary strike from the Liski area on Kupyansk was to be delivered by the Selivyachev strike group. Vladimir Selivyatchev was also an experienced commander - a participant in the war with Japan and Germany, the tsar general - commanded a brigade, division, corps and 7 army (during the June offensive of 1917). In December 1918 of the year he was drafted into the Red Army, in August 1919 of the year - assistant commander of the Southern Front. The Selivyachev group included the 8 Army, two divisions of the 13 Army, and the Voronezh Fortified Region. The attack group consisted of about 45 thousand bayonets and sabers, about 250 guns. The 14-I red army was to support the advance of the Selivyachev group, to strike at Lozova.

The beginning of the offensive of the Southern Front was scheduled for early August, but by this time they did not have time to complete the preparation of the operation — the transfer of replenishment, reserves, weapons and supplies. In the direction of the main strike, they did not manage to concentrate a powerful shock fist.



Raid Mamontov


The White Command discovered the preparation of the Reds for a counteroffensive. The whites decided to deliver a preemptive strike with the goal of disrupting the enemy’s upcoming offensive, facilitating the advance of the Don army and provoking an uprising of peasants behind the Bolsheviks. On August 10, 1919, the 4th Don Cavalry Corps (9 thousand people) under the command of Mamontov (Mamantov) crossed the Khoper River near the village of Dobrinskaya and struck at the junction of the 9 and 8 red armies. Belokazaki broke through the front and went behind enemy lines, began to move to Tambov. Cossacks smashed the rear units, garrisons, dispersed mobilized peasants, broke communications, destroyed railways, stations, and warehouses of the Southern Front. Panic began in the red rear. Management of the Southern Front was temporarily and partially violated.

On August 18, the Belokazaki took Tambov without a fight, the local garrison fled or joined the 4th Corps. Then the whites took Kozlov, Lebedyan, Yelets and Voronezh. An infantry division was formed from local volunteers and prisoners. To fight the Mamontov corps, the Red Command had to create a group of Lashevich (more than 20 thousand people, armored trains, aviation), to divert considerable forces from the front and rear, including several rifle divisions and the equestrian corps of Budyonny. As a result, the Don Corps, on the orders of Denikin, returned to its own on September 19.

Mamantov’s equestrian raid weakened the striking power of the Southern Front, which at that time was trying to defeat the main group of the All-Union Union of Liberal Forces. Part of the forces of the Red Front was diverted to the fight against the White Cossacks, the rear was partially destroyed and disorganized. On the other hand, the raid of the Cossack corps did not fulfill the main task - the peasantry did not revolt in the rear of the Southern Front. Moreover, the actions of the Cossacks pushed peasants and citizens of the central part of Russia from the White movement. They acted as robbers and marauders, as in foreign territory. No wonder the white command - Denikin and Wrangel, was annoyed by the actions of the Don Cossacks. Mamontov’s corps clearly avoided the battle, but did not forget to rob everything, including even churches. Cossack regiments returned to the Don with enormous booty as if they were marching on enemy lands — with herds of pedigree cattle and various goods. Not surprisingly, Wrangel considered such a campaign a crime and demanded the removal of Mamontov from command.

On the left flank, the White Army dealt another blow to disrupt the advance of the Southern Front. On August 12, the 1th Army Corps of General Kutepov struck the right wing of the 13th Red Army. White advanced on the Kursk and Rylsky directions. This operation disrupted the connection between the 13 and 14 red armies.


Commander of the 4 th Cavalry Corps of the Don Army, Lieutenant General K. K. Mamontov

Counterattack of the Red Army


On 14 of August 1919, the Shorin Special Group launched an offensive. She was supported by the ships of the Volga flotilla. The troops of the 10 Army under the command of Klyuyev and the Budenny corps conducted an offensive in the Tsaritsyno direction. 9-I army under the command of Stepin attacked Ust-Khoperskaya. On 22 of August the Reds recaptured Kamyshin. At the end of August, Budenny’s equestrian corps defeated the White Cossacks in the area of ​​Ostrovskaya stanitsa and, together with the 10 Army, delivered a strong blow to the enemy’s troops at Serebryakovo-Zelenovskaya stanitsa. In early September, the Red Army reached Tsaritsyn. Fierce battles fought outside the city. The forces of the 28 and 38 divisions, and the landing detachment of the sailors Kozhanov were not enough to take a well-fortified city on the move. So, they decided to withdraw the Budenny corps to the rear for the fight against the white Cossacks of Mamontov. On September 9, White went on a counterattack and squeezed out units of the 10 Red Army. By September 11, the situation in the Tsaritsyno direction had stabilized.

The offensive of the red 9 Army developed slowly, whites showed strong resistance. Only by the 21 of August in the battle a turning point occurred and the Reds began to push the Don army to the Khoper and Don rivers. On 12 of September the red forces crossed Khoper and advanced on 150 - 180 km, but there was no further offensive.

Selivyatchev’s group launched an attack on August 15, striking at the junction of the Don Army and the right wing of the Volunteer Army. For ten days of fighting, the Reds occupied the Kupyansk region. However, White concentrated large forces on the flanks of the Selivyachev group and on August 26 launched strong counterattacks. On the right flank of the Volunteer Army, from the Belgorod region to Korocha, Novy Oskol was hit by the 1th Army Corps of Kutepov and the 3th Kuban Horse Corps of Shkuro. On the left flank of the Don army, from the Karpenkov, Krasnoye, Samoteevka districts, the 8-I Plastun and 2-I Don divisions attacked Biryuch. The whites tried to surround and destroy the group of Selivyachev. With the heavy battles of 3 on September, the Reds began to retreat and, after suffering heavy losses, were able to avoid the "cauldron" and complete destruction. On September 12, Selivyachev's group restrained the enemy on the outskirts of Voronezh. On September 17, Selivyachev, who was suspected of betrayal, suddenly died (or was killed).

Thus, the counterattack of the Southern Front did not lead to the rout of the main forces of Denikin’s army and the White’s refusal to march on Moscow. In September, VSYUR continued the offensive in the Moscow direction. This is due to a lack of forces, especially cavalry in the shock groups of Shorin and Selivyachev. The Reds were able to break through the enemy’s front and enter the operational space. However, they did not have strong mobile units to go through the rear of the enemy, to disorganize the white and strategic reserves for the development of their first success. Part of the troops was withdrawn to the rear to fight the Cossacks of Mamontov. In addition, the advance of the two groups of the Southern Front was carried out independently, without communication with each other. This allowed the enemy to fight with them separately. However, the advance of the Red Army delayed the movement of the White Guards to the north.


Soviet military leader Vasily Ivanovich Shorin
Author:
Articles from this series:
Smoot. 1919 year

How the British created the Armed Forces of the South of Russia
How to restore Soviet power in Ukraine
How Petliurists led Little Russia to a complete catastrophe
How defeated Petliurism
Give the boundaries of 1772 of the year!
Battle for the North Caucasus. How to suppress the Terek Uprising
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 2. December battle
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 3. The January accident of the 11 Army
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 4. How the 11 army died
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 5. Capture of Kizlyar and the Terrible
Battle for the North Caucasus. CH 6. Furious assault of Vladikavkaz
How Georgia tried to seize Sochi
How the Whites crushed the Georgian invaders
The war of February and October as a confrontation between two civilization projects
How did the "Flight to the Volga"
How Kolchak's army broke through to the Volga
Catastrophe of the Don Cossacks
Verkhniyon uprising
How "Great Finland" planned to seize Petrograd
"All to fight with Kolchak!"
Frunze. Red Napoleon
The missed opportunities of the army of Kolchak
May offensive of the Northern Corps
How white broke through to Petrograd
Battle for the South of Russia
Strategic change on the southern front. Manych operation
Crimea on fire Russian distemper
Crimea in 1918-1919. Intervents, local authorities and whites
How did the uprising of ataman Grigoriev
Nikifor Grigoriev, "ataman of the rebel forces of Kherson region, Zaporizhia and Tavria"
Odessa operation ataman Grigoriev
Uprising in the Ukraine. How failed the “Blitzkrieg” of Grigorievka
Ufa operation. How were defeated the best parts of the army of Kolchak
Moscow campaign army Denikin
"All to fight with Denikin!"
Battle of the Urals
The defeat of the Siberian army. How the Red Army liberated Perm and Yekaterinburg
The defeat of Kolchak in the Chelyabinsk battle
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  1. Civil
    Civil 20 August 2019 07: 59
    -1
    Civil war is a shame and tragedy. No one even made an attempt to sit down and agree. And they are still ready to kill for the sake of political and economic demands. As before, hatred and cannibalism prevail over reason. Nobody wants to discuss anything, much less to make concessions. An ax hangs over the country with a curse - concessions and a desire for peace are considered weakness. Society hurts even after 100 years.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 20 August 2019 08: 31
      -6
      Quote: Civil
      No one even made an attempt to sit down and agree.

      no, except for the Bolsheviks-ALL were ready to negotiate and agree: see the Constituent Assembly of Russia.
      Quote: Civil
      And they are still ready to kill for the sake of political and economic demands. As before, hatred and cannibalism prevail over reason. Nobody wants to discuss anything, much less to make concessions.

      Today there are Elections where everything can be solved, the main thing is the absence of violence, which does not solve anything.

      By article:
      author - Red Army tried release the lower reaches of the Don.
      Do not release, but to seize : Cossacks were on its land, and they sent the Bolsheviks on the very first day of the Thief.

      .
      Vasily Shorin was an experienced commander, commander of the 2nd Army on the Eastern Front of the Northern Group of the Eastern Front
      - received a bullet (deserved) from his "comrades" in 1938. Rightfully
      1. Civil
        Civil 20 August 2019 08: 46
        +3
        no, except for the Bolsheviks-EVERYTHING was ready to agree and agreed: see the Constituent Assembly of Russia

        Oddly enough, there was an appeal to the whites from the Central Committee
        Source
        Three Americans arrived in the Soviet capital in mid-March 1919, shortly after the closure of the first congress of the Communist International (see chap. 4 below). What happened at the congress, like its resolutions, was of no interest to the visitors. Those who accepted them from the Soviet side were full of friendliness and good intentions. On March 14, the Central Committee presented Bullitt with a list of conditions under which the Soviets were ready to make peace with the whites. The applicants for power in Russia under these conditions left behind the territories that they controlled at the moment; Allied forces were gradually withdrawn from Russian territory, and their help to the Whites immediately ceased. Russians who fought against the Soviet state with weapons in their hands were subject to amnesty. All parties to the Russian conflict assumed equal responsibility for Russia's debts. The problem of compensation for nationalized foreign property was not addressed in the conditions.


        Terms have not been accepted. And knowing Russian society, it is easy to predict the outcome of such proposals. Leaders and generals are generally not inclined to at least share power with anyone, even in the long term.

        Today there are Elections where everything can be solved, the main thing is the absence of violence, which does not solve anything.

        If society is not able to allocate anyone other than greedy careerists for election, what is the point of this election.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 20 August 2019 10: 14
          -7
          Quote: Civil
          Oddly enough, there was an appeal to the whites from the Central Committee

          There were never any .... proposals "to the whites from the Central Committee": in 1919 there were negotiations between the Reds and the AMERICANS with the ENGLISH on the initiative of nthe last.
          . There were no whites there at all.
          The purpose of the Reds is to remove the allied forces and the help of weapons with white (as provided for in the draft agreement) in order to deal with the whites.

          The Reds had only successful agreements with the occupiers: Germany and Poland (armistice) to be able to fight with Russian troops inside the country.
          Quote: Civil
          If society is not able to allocate anyone other than greedy careerists for election, what is the point of this election.

          Yeah, but hitting each other over the heads with clubs is a "solution", yes ..... yes

          Mankind has NOT invented anything more healthy and painless for the country than the elections according to the Law.
          1. Civil
            Civil 20 August 2019 14: 26
            0
            The purpose of the Reds is to remove the allied forces and the help of weapons with white (as provided for in the draft agreement) in order to deal with the whites.

            That’s what I’m saying, no one was able to find the courage to end the fratricidal war. It was better to ruin the country for personal power than to stoop to the needs of the common people.
            Mankind has NOT invented anything more healthy and painless for the country than the elections according to the Law.

            Having done this, there are examples where, without any democracy, people think about other people, for example, the Emirates or China.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 21 August 2019 09: 40
              -3
              Quote: Civil
              That’s what I’m saying, no one was able to find the courage to end the fratricidal war.

              1. You said something else:
              there was an appeal to white from the Central Committee
              .
              this was not in sight.
              2. The cessation of the struggle on the part of the whites meant their physical destruction. What happened after their defeat. It’s impossible to negotiate with the Reds, their goal is the destruction of the dissent
              Quote: Civil
              Having done this, there are examples where, without any democracy, people think about other people, for example, the Emirates or China

              Did the Emirates tell you this?
      2. Plague doctor
        Plague doctor 20 August 2019 21: 00
        +2
        You are always on your own wave, if the tsar were at least a bit interested in the life of his citizens for Lenin, the people and the army did not go, my dear, do not carry your nonsense to the masses.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 21 August 2019 09: 41
          -3
          Quote: Plague Doctor
          You are always on your own wave, if the tsar were at least a bit interested in the life of his citizens for Lenin, the people and the army did not go, my dear, do not carry your nonsense to the masses.

          They didn’t go: see the results of the ELECTIONS, not head banging. Stop raving.
          1. Plague doctor
            Plague doctor 21 August 2019 11: 37
            0
            Do you know that most of the army and part of the officers went over to the side of the revolutionaries, but didn’t hear about mass desertion and disobedience to the officers at the end of the First World War? And the workers and peasants, too, did not take to the streets for their beloved tsar. Do you know that the leaders of the white movement worked for British intelligence?
      3. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 20 August 2019 23: 44
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Today there are Elections where everything can be solved, the main thing is the absence of violence, which does not solve anything.

        Well, of course, the bandit stripped you down to your underwear, then hugs you and says: "Let's live together!"
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 21 August 2019 09: 44
          -4
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Well, of course, the bandit stripped you down to your underwear, then hugs you and says: "Let's live together!"

          Choose whoever you want and then live as you want, now not owls. time. If, of course, you have enough brains and strength: for now, you DO NOT .... lol can lol
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 21 August 2019 11: 04
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Choose whoever you want and then live as you want, now not owls. time

            There’s no one to choose from; only thieves-millionaires are slipped to the people. Pay attention to the elected bodies - the same people who are blocked by the path to the elected bodies, because. we need crazy contributions
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 21 August 2019 12: 01
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              There’s no one to choose from,

              there was no one to choose from 70 years of past power, and today, anyone! What is stopping you? Dancing supplies?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Pay attention to the elected bodies - the same people who are blocked by the path to the elected bodies, because. we need crazy contributions

              Name the "contributions" and their documentary basis, do not chatter in vain.
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 21 August 2019 12: 39
                +1
                Quote: Olgovich
                there was no one to choose from 70 years of past power, and today, anyone! What is stopping you? Dancing supplies?

                Thief millionaire A; millionaire thief B; ...... thief-millionaire-M .... thief ..... and so some thieves, dancing accessories they all have the same, so there is no one to choose from.

                Quote: Olgovich
                Name the "contributions" and their documentary basis, do not chatter in vain.

                For instance. in Ukraine there is a guarantee, which is 2,5 million UAH. (approximately $ 100). In Russia, this council has recently been replaced by collection of signatures, but how much money do you need to collect 000 thousand signatures? And what about campaign advertising? A simple worker - can it allow ?.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 21 August 2019 13: 01
                  -3
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Thief millionaire A; millionaire thief B; ...... thief-millionaire-M .... thief ..... and so some thieves, dancing accessories they all have the same, so there is no one to choose from.

                  Pull the nevorishek! WHO is in the way ?! Myself, for example. Today no one forbids candidates, as they did 70 years
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  For instance. in Ukraine there is a guarantee, which is 2,5 million UAH. (approximately $ 100)

                  What are you lying to? To register a candidate in the Rada-majority vote, he makes only ... 12 MINzarplat. It's nothing! Moreover, the winner-back! Take a loan and go!
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  for campaign advertising? A simple worker - can it allow ?.

                  You have Millions of supporting! yes lol Solve the issue.

                  But he, the question, is different: you are not needed - ANYONE
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  в Ukraine

                  AT Ukraine, remember, "ON"! Here the RUSSIAN language is used! ON Ukraine, ON Ukraine, etc.
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 21 August 2019 20: 46
                    -1
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    Pull the nevorishek!

                    You are naive. Honest workers have no money. Moreover, already 30 years of experience in bourgeois elections shows that the money bag is winning.

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    In Ukraine, remember

                    Alas, this is wrong. Ukraine is a state, therefore they write "in Ukraine", you do not write in Russian, for example, the analogous "in Belarus"
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 22 August 2019 10: 37
                      -4
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      You are naive. Honest workers have no money. Moreover, already 30 years of experience in bourgeois elections shows that the money bag is winning.

                      Do you have supporters (millions, supposedly lol ) -by the hryvnia-dial ALL.
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Moreover, already 30 years of experience in bourgeois elections shows that the money bag is winning.

                      the thing is different: yours are NOT NEEDED TO ANYBODY, for bankrupts are not interesting!
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Alas, this is wrong. Ukraine is a state, therefore they write "in Ukraine", you do not write in Russian, for example, the analogous "in Belarus"

                      Who are you to establish the rules of the Russian language? In Russian, according to the rules (it happened historically) correctly "IN Ukraine"! Remember and write correctly
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      Ukraine is a state

                      so-called "Ukraine" is a non-state, criminally cobbled together by the Bolsheviks from the stolen Russian lands.
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 22 August 2019 11: 12
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Who are you to establish the rules of the Russian language? In Russian, according to the rules (it happened historically) correctly "IN Ukraine"!

                        I just write according to the rules of the Russian language. When the terrain is meant, they write in the Caucasus, on the Volga, in Ukraine, when they have a republic, a state, then they write in Ossetia, in Ukraine. By the way, in the USSR they wrote in Soviet Ukraine. Now they write in Ukraine.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Do you have supporters (millions, supposedly

                        We do not participate in the elections, as we understand that the working class will not be able to defeat the bourgeoisie in elections. He will come to power only in a revolutionary way.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 22 August 2019 11: 24
                        -4
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I just write according to the rules of the Russian language. When the terrain is meant, they write in the Caucasus, on the Volga, in Ukraine, when they have a republic, a state, then they write in Ossetia, in Ukraine.

                        read the Rules:
                        http://new.gramota.ru/spravka//buro/hot10/ literary norm of the Russian language, according to which should speak and write in Ukraine, - The result of the historical development of the language over several centuries. The compatibility of the prepositions in and with with certain words is explained solely by tradition. Cf .: at school, at the institute, at the pharmacy, in the department, but: at the factory, at the post office, at the resort, at the warehouse, etc. Literary norm cannot change overnight due to any political processes.
                      3. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 22 August 2019 13: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        read the Rules:

                        These rules are commented on by the same "literate" as you. If I.V. Stalin, he would explain to you all that everything in this world flows and changes: life changes and language develops. Therefore, it was correct - "IN SOVIET UKRAINE", and similarly correct would be - "IN UKRAINE".
                      4. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 23 August 2019 11: 05
                        -4
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        These rules comment the same "literate ", just like you.

                        Yeah INSTITUTE OF RUSSIAN LANGUAGE
                        them. V.V. Vinogradova
                        RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCES
                        not literate fool
                        But you are "smarter", yes .... lol laughing
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Would I.V. Stalin, he would explain to all of you that everything in this world is flowing and changing: and life is changing and

                        so he also explained:
                        we could, having come to the country, say: "well, we will wait a little, how the party apparatus will be nationalized In Ukraine"-12 feb 1929 stalin
                        lol

                        Your svidomye rules, leave on svidomo-so-called. "Ukraine" hi
                      5. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 24 August 2019 16: 22
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Your svidomye rules, leave on svidomo-so-called. "Ukraine

                        For all blinkers, the ancients still noticed that "Everything flows, everything changes" - the origins of dialectics come from here,

                        According to dialectics, the language also changes. If at the beginning of the 20th century, for example, they wrote "OPERATION"then already in the middle of the century"exploitation", or before 1917 there was a letter Yat, then after it was gone, many words began to have a different meaning ..

                        I don’t know where you got the Stalinist words without reference to the source (and this is a sign of bad taste), but I think that Stalin dialectically related to the development of the USSR, republics, and language, and respected the sovereignty of these republics, for example, in the 30's. g. he, taking the Chairperson of the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR Skrypnik, who spoke Ukrainian, used a translator, i.e. respected a foreign language, and therefore the connection of the Soviet republics was strong, which was proved during the Great Patriotic War.

                        Today, with chauvinistic statements about the non-independent nature of the origin of the Ukrainian language and the Ukrainian people, such a unity of the republics as it was under Lenin and Stalin is difficult to expect.
                      6. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 25 August 2019 10: 31
                        -5
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        For all blinkered, even the ancients noticed that "Everything flows, everything changes" - from here come the sources of dialectics,

                        For the ignorant: you are given TODAY's opinion of the RAS. And what’s leaked and what’s locked somewhere is not interesting to anyone.
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        until 1917 was the letter Yat, then after she was already gone, many words began to have a different meaning..

                        Examples, "thinker" lol
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I don’t know where you got the Stalinist words without reference to the source (and this is a sign of bad taste),

                        belay Such things YOU-must know by heart: "Power and artistic intelligentsia. Documents of the Central Committee of the RCP (b) - VKP (b), VChK - OGPU - NKVD on cultural policy. 1917-1953."
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        what is Stalin dialectically related to the development of the USSR, and republics, and language, and respected the sovereignty of these republics

                        Very "dialectical", yes angry : from 1924 to 1940 the territory of Russia was reduced with a speed of 10 CRIMES A YEAR!
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        respected the sovereignty of these republics,

                        See-by borders 17th century Russia
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        those. respected a foreign language, and therefore the connection of the Soviet republics was strong, which was proved during the Great Patriotic War.

                        EVERYONE fought against Nazism. And the true "strength" was shown by the BEACON 1991
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Today, with chauvinistic statements about the non-independent nature of the origin of the Ukrainian language and the Ukrainian people, such a unity of the republics as it was under Lenin and Stalin is difficult to expect.

                        After having invented the so-called. "Ukrainian" people lol , its "history and culture" lol and forcibly forced it into the head of the unfortunate Russian of Little Russia and Novorossiya-the Ukrainian Russophobic monster healed his independent life
                      7. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 25 August 2019 19: 10
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        After having invented the so-called. "Ukrainian" people, its "history and" culture "and they HAVE FORCED this into the head of the unfortunate Russians of Little Russia and Novorossiya-Ukrainian Russophobic monster healed his own independent life

                        Thank you, I already realized that it is useless for you to explain the laws of the development of society and language, you are still not able to learn them. But as you did not bother, Ukraine and the Ukrainian language exist independently of you. Therefore, in order to console you, I recommend ordering a globe for yourself, where instead of the state, the Ukrainian Republic is an empty place. With the help of such a globe, where instead of the USA there was also an empty place, KVN sheep consoled Mikhail Zadornov at one time.
                        Whatever the child was amusing, if only he would not cry.
                      8. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 August 2019 10: 04
                        -4
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Thank you, I already realized that it is useless for you to explain the laws of the development of society and language, you are still not able to learn them.

                        You do not know them, how can you ... explain something? belay lol
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        But no matter how hard you tried, Ukraine and the Ukrainian language exist independently of you

                        There is, I already said:
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        After having invented the so-called. "Ukrainian" people, their "history and" culture "and for 70 years they HAVE FORCED this into the head of the unfortunate Russians of Little Russia and Novorossiya-Ukrainian Russophobic monster healed his independent life
                        ..
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Therefore, in order to console you, I recommend ordering a globe for yourself, where instead of the state, the Ukrainian Republic is an empty place. With the help of such a globe, where instead of the USA there was also an empty place, KVN sheep consoled Mikhail Zadornov at one time.

                        Let it be, but without the Russians of Odessa, Nikolaev, Yekaterinoslav, Kharkov, etc., cut off from Russia by criminals in 1918
                      9. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 26 August 2019 10: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Let it be, but without the Russians of Odessa, Nikolaev, Yekaterinoslav, Kharkov, etc., cut off from Russia by criminals in 1918

                        Do not forget to order yourself such a globe
                      10. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 26 August 2019 11: 58
                        -2
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Do not forget to order yourself such a globe

                        Answer then right (even though you constantly evade):
                        1. Crimea is Russia (yes / no) ?!
                        For example, my answer is YES!
                        Your-?
                      11. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 27 August 2019 16: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Then answer directly (even though you constantly evade):
                        1. Crimea is Russia (yes / no) ?!
                        For example, my answer is YES!
                        Your-?

                        Crimea is the USSR. Today, Crimea is an apple of discord, and this will continue until socialist revolutions take place in the republics and they again unite into a single Soviet Union. Only then will there be no difference under whose jurisdiction.
                      12. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 28 August 2019 09: 10
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Crimea is the USSR.


                        Look at the map-no such country. There is Russia and the outskirts. As is Russia and Poland, Poland and Belarus. Got it?
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Today, Crimea is an apple of discord, and this will continue until socialist revolutions take place in the republics and they again unite into a single Soviet Union.

                        End the empty chatter.

                        Can you speak directly, finally?

                        . Answer! Crimea is Russia (yes / no) ?!
                      13. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 28 August 2019 20: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        End the empty chatter. Can you directly speak, finally? Answer! Crimea is Russia (yes / no)?

                        This is not idle chatter, this is an analysis of the problem that has arisen today and ways to overcome it, and your stubborn stance does not bring us closer to a solution ... Whose Crimea, for the Communists, does not matter.

                        If for you, as for a bourgeois singer, the answer is so important. I’ll say that Crimea is now part of Russia, but Ukraine does not recognize this and it will be a hotbed of tension for a long time, and it is not yet known what it will pour out.

                        I repeat that this problem will go away as soon as all the former republics restore Soviet power and the Soviet Union.
                      14. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 29 August 2019 10: 54
                        -4
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        This is not idle chatter, this is an analysis of the problem that has arisen today and the ways to overcome it, and your stubborn stance doesn’t bring us closer to its solution ..

                        Who needs your ... "tests"? I am not a doctor request
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        Whose Crimea, for the Communists does not matter.

                        Then hand over Odessa and Nikolaev-to Russia, since there is no value. Do you agree?
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        If for you, as for a bourgeois singer, the answer is so important. I’ll say that Crimea is now part of Russia, but Ukraine does not recognize this

                        I ask YOU, not the so-called Ukraine: Whose Crimea? Didn’t get it again?
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        I repeat that this problem will go away as soon as all the former republics restore Soviet power and the Soviet Union

                        USSR - an imperceptible period of time in millennial History of Russia, ended 30 years ago. Before the USSR, Crimea was Russian and now it is.
                        CRIMES of your idols for the transfer of Russian lands the so-called Ukrainians are insignificant.
                      15. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 29 August 2019 21: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        The USSR is an imperceptible time period in the thousand-year history of Russia, which ended 30 years ago.

                        Do not tell. It was the best time in our history, and it shines brighter than all the previous millennium and present time. It is not for nothing that the peoples of modern Russia and other former republics of the USSR now remember that time with nostalgia. .
                      16. The comment was deleted.
  2. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 20 August 2019 09: 00
    +3
    I am following with interest the articles of Samsonov on the cycle of the Civil War, and even tied to its centenary by date. In this regard, I give preference to the author, articles by Oleinikov good
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 21 August 2019 09: 50
      -4
      Quote: Stirbjorn
      In this regard, I give preference to the author, articles by Oleinikov

      Articles DIN A.V. Oleinikov is much more informative: they are based on primary sources that are given directly in articles, on original diagrams, maps, eyewitness accounts, documents, without common words and phrases.

      In addition, they are impartial and lack propaganda clichés that are long outdated and useless.