Military Review

For "grandchildren and great-grandchildren of ruined holders." French MP Verkamer and Russian bonds


Lenders, creditors ...

More than 20 years ago, Russia seemed to have paid off in full with French creditors who had invested their personal funds in the construction of Russian railways. Nevertheless, again there were those who wanted to make the old claims relevant. And this is despite the fact that at one time France officially announced that it would no longer require any new payments.

For "grandchildren and great-grandchildren of ruined holders." French MP Verkamer and Russian bonds

The first of the Soviet leaders to speak of readiness to pay royal debts, Mikhail Gorbachev spoke.

Since the renewed Russia already in 1997 decided to fulfill the promises made by the first and last president of the USSR, there has also been a large-scale settlement of old Soviet debts to international financial organizations. At that time, clear promises were made to Russia that no one would turn to her for old debts.

Indeed, no one has yet put forward any specific requirements for Russia. The sensational call "to put an end to the issue of Russian payments on bonds of the late XIX - early XX century", which was recently made by the centrist deputy from the French National Assembly, Francis Vercamer, was addressed not to Russia, but to the French cabinet.

In one of the French yellow publications about Francis Verkamer it is written that in the beginning of the 80-s he, who did not serve in the army, received the rank of lieutenant as a graduate of the School of Engineering in his native Lille. Most likely, like many family members, he has in his hands a lot of Russian securities. A partial repayment of them at the end of the 90's hardly brought their holders more than a few percent of what they expected.

Indeed, in those prices, all old Russian loans, based on their initial amount of approximately 15 billion francs, were estimated at 40-45 billion dollars. Now they are talking about 53 billions of euros. Russia, as you know, agreed to pay only 400 million dollars. It was believed that most of the pre-revolutionary stocks and bonds had sunk into oblivion, and not only the Russian Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin, but also his French counterpart Alain Juppe signed it.

Viktor Chernomyrdin and Alain Juppe signed together not only an agreement on royal debts

Then the French authorities committed themselves to deal with thousands of holders of Russian securities. However, a precedent is important in this situation. Despite the decision of the French cabinet, it is no longer possible to exclude a boomerang against Russia. And in modern conditions, when sanctions and trade wars with and without become just the norm, you have to prepare an answer to any unexpected blow.

Invalid request

The French are known for their scrupulousness and practicality. For them, the difference in the yield of securities of only one percent is not a trifle, but a signal for action. The ancestors of the current holders of Russian stocks, bills and bonds at the end of the century before last just acted. While most French securities then promised income at the level of three percent per annum, Russians suddenly appeared on the market with an offer in 4, or even more percent.

On Russian securities, even denominations were written in rubles and French francs

At the end of the 19th century, Russia was experiencing an industrial boom, railways were being built at a frantic pace in the country, for which capital was urgently needed. There was not enough free funds inside the country, despite the growing export of grain, furs, hemp and timber, as well as the rise of the coal and oil industries.

The emerging political rapprochement with republican France was very helpful, the banking sector there was growing rapidly, despite the recent defeat from Prussia. The economy grew, the audience grew rich, seeking applications for their incomes. The Russian proposal fell on very fertilized soil.

Let us turn to how commenting on the speech of the deputy Verkamer, who came from a very famous family of perfumers, who had settled in Lille since 1924, our and foreign media. All of them call the securities referred to by the French MP, gold-backed government bonds. However, this is not entirely true. It is necessary to talk only about state guarantees, and gold security at that time was generally the norm for Russia.

By the way, the then Russian ruble was provided with gold by more than 100 percent, and there was no need to talk about special collateral for shares and bonds, and even more so bills of exchange of private railway companies. We must not forget that the construction of railways in Russia was accompanied by numerous scandals, and for the well-known art patron Savva Mamontov, it turned into a lawsuit and bankruptcy.

It is known that in the promotion of Russian loans, the start of which was given back in the 1867 year, only then Minister of Finance Sergey Witte took an active part. Subsequently, he took over as chairman of the Council of Ministers, but before that he was not at all embarrassed in buying journalists. In the end, this led to the fact that already during the First World War, his special agent, who worked with the press, primarily the French, simply fled, taking with him a little less than 40 million rubles.

S.Yu. Witte was clearly not the worst minister financially in stories

However, at the end of the XIX and at the beginning of the XX century it was quite possible to believe in Russian papers, especially since by the 1 of August 1914, the day of the beginning of the First World War, the gold and currency reserves of the Russian Empire amounted to:

The central reserve of the State Bank - 1604 million rubles. - 1241,9 t.
Gold of the State Bank abroad - 116,7 million rubles. - 90,35 t.
Free float gold coin - 458,5 mln rub. - 355 t.

(V. G. Sirotkin. Gold and Russian Real Estate Abroad. M., 2000.)

Today, in his request, a parliamentarian from Lille refers to “grandchildren and great-grandchildren of ruined holders” of securities, which even after 100 over the years “continue to demand a return on invested money.” Meanwhile, from Russia these deprived people have repeatedly made it clear that they should not count on something really worthwhile.

In this regard, it all started with the fact that in 1918 a special decree of the Council of People's Commissars signed by its chairman Vladimir Ulyanov, better known as Lenin, all state internal and external loans of the tsarist and Provisional governments were canceled.

Twenty years later, when the left came to power in France, with whom the USSR actively helped the Republicans in Spain, the idea arose of putting tsarist papers in payment of military assistance to the “red” Madrid, but something did not work out. It seemed that the 1997 agreement of the year would put an end to the question, but in practice, as we see, it turned out only a comma.

Monsieur Dupont demanded an account

In France, as a well-known historian established in the beginning of the 2000's, nowadays, unfortunately, the late Vladlen Sirotkin, by no means have stopped their activities at least five associations of holders of Russian securities. Apparently, the same Verkamer is listed in at least one of these organizations.

The object of fierce criticism of their members, for the most part simple “Monsieur Dupont,” has been exclusively the French government over the past few years, which once essentially acted as the guarantor for the main guarantor of loans - the tsarist government of Russia. It was the French government at the finish line of the 20th century that promised to pay even before all agreements with the Russians.

Since then, the confrontation has never stopped. Not at a time when the “leftists” came to power in France, some social benefits that were promised instead of money, or exchange for long-term, but low-income papers of the French government, were languid. Not during the rule of the conservatives or the right, like Nicolas Sarkozy, who confined himself mostly to beautiful phrases like "France remembers everyone who owes it."

That's why this topic did not come up in Russia, that everything was spinning inside France, and we were not even informed about anything. The first bell rang about a year ago, when the French holders of bonds and shares of the tsarist times, which turned out to be about 400 thousand, made a statement about their intention to get from Russia a settlement in the amount of 30 billion euros. No more, no less.

And finally, now Verkamer’s deputy is very confident in declaring that Russian compensation did not match the real value of the bonds, so the descendants of their holders still “remain victims.” The request of the Lille deputy, who managed from the position to the left of the “left president Mitterrand” to move to the French political center, said:

“After 100 over the years, the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of ruined holders (bonds) continue to demand a return on invested money. Despite the agreement of 27 on May 1997 of the year, according to which the government of the Russian Federation agreed to pay 400 million US dollars, bondholders remain injured. Of course, they were returned the money, but in most cases, the payments did not match the real amounts of the bonds. "

In principle, while Francis Verkamer didn’t even think of making claims directly to Russia, he only notes that the descendants of those investors from the late 19th and early 20th centuries want to find out what measures the French government took to “pay off accounts payable and finally resolve this lawsuit. "

... and the gold of Lenin

Nevertheless, Russian parliamentarians have already called the demands of the French colleague unconstructive. At the same time, some of them reminded Verkamer of the intervention during the Civil War, as well as of the help that Tsarist Russia managed to provide France in the most difficult moments of the battles on the Western Front of World War I.

The already mentioned Vladlen Sirotkin, who always considered himself a convinced francophile, would probably have reminded the French in connection with the current auction that they had once accepted from the SNK chairman of the RSFSR V.I. Ulyanov-Lenin for temporary storage of 5620 gold bars. This fact back in 1995 was convincing, with documents and protocols, proved by German researcher Helmut Welter.

And so, they took it for “temporary storage”, but did not think to return it! In 1920, Lenin's gold was scattered across London and Brussels, and in the 30 years it was melted for reliability in order to get rid of royal monograms on bullion. But the facts could not be hidden, and the same “affected” investors, according to Verkamer, actually still regularly organize demonstrations demanding to their government “return 47 tons of gold to us”.

Many observers in this regard believe that the associations of offended holders of Russian papers are well aware that the French government would like to pay with Russian gold for old Russian debts.

By the way, in addition to the “Lenin's gold”, it does not hurt to remind some of the five and a half tons of the noble metal of Nicholas II, which during the Civil War hung in the UK. It was them who, in their time, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher actually promised Mikhail Gorbachev to pay off already with the British creditors of tsarist Russia. Those, unlike the French, did not buy our securities, no matter, secured with gold or backed by guarantees of the tsarist government, but simply lent. And in difficult times, just in case, they decided to "take in gold."

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  1. polpot
    polpot 16 August 2019 15: 07
    From a dead donkey their ears
    1. Svarog
      Svarog 16 August 2019 15: 12
      Let those who exported RI gold pay the tsar’s debts .. But in general, I have the feeling that only Russia repays its debts, while it forgives the debtors itself ..
      1. Normal ok
        Normal ok 16 August 2019 19: 39
        Quote: Svarog
        Let those who exported RI gold pay the tsar’s debts .. But in general, I have the feeling that only Russia repays its debts, while it forgives the debtors itself ..

        It would not be bad for the Russian authorities to fully settle accounts with their people on internal bonds of the USSR.
      2. Observer2014
        Observer2014 17 August 2019 16: 05
        Svarog hi
        In general, I have the feeling that only Russia repays debts, while it forgives debtors itself ..
        In general, not only with you!
    2. Siberia 75
      Siberia 75 16 August 2019 15: 22
      All such topics, their large number and not only about the royal debts, are of exclusively historiographic interest. It is curious to read, but "tearing your nerves" is stupid. This has nothing to do with real life.
      1. major147
        major147 16 August 2019 18: 01
        Quote: Siberia 75
        All such topics, their large number and not only about the royal debts, are of exclusively historiographic interest. It is curious to read, but "tearing your nerves" is stupid. This has nothing to do with real life.

        Moreover, they owe us both for 1812 and 1941. Maybe they should charge them for their past deeds?
    3. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be 16 August 2019 15: 29
      Ears are already given.
      There are still Chubais vouchers. Shove them to the French ..
      1. maxim947
        maxim947 16 August 2019 15: 41
        The counter-question arises - why are we historically shy to demand, namely demand, the return of our money and gold ?! We are afraid to seem impolite and ruin supposedly friendly relations? So they are not, never was and never will be. Only it’ll be fatter to wipe our feet further. They talk a lot about the national idea, etc. but without society’s awareness of national pride there will be no ideas.
        ... the renewed Russia already in 1997 decided to fulfill the promises made by the first and last president of the USSR,
        anger is not enough for some of our leaders ...
        1. Local from the Volga
          Local from the Volga 16 August 2019 19: 30
          Soon the labeled parasite will die, they will not be sent to court ...
        2. kuz363
          kuz363 17 August 2019 07: 03
          Demand execution can only be through the court. But he will obviously not be in the Bauman district of Moscow. And the result of an international court is known in advance.
        3. Starover_Z
          Starover_Z 18 August 2019 22: 16
          Quote: maxim947
          ... the renewed Russia already in 1997 decided to fulfill the promises made by the first and last president of the USSR,

          So let Gorbachev, because he is still alive and he has a fund, and gives back the promise! Why should someone pay after him?
  2. Ravik
    Ravik 16 August 2019 15: 08
    Let the French pay for the intervention during the Civil War.
    And if you make our claims the whole west will remain without pants ...
    Crackers !!!
  3. Avior
    Avior 16 August 2019 15: 09
    It was not necessary to pay these debts; this created a bad precedent.
    They stated that we would not pay for royal debts, it was necessary to stand firm on this.
    And now, it turns out, the liability for debts is recognized, and the dispute is due to the amount of debt.
  4. Ravil_Asnafovich
    Ravil_Asnafovich 16 August 2019 15: 12
    A donut hole, in the best sense, by the way yesterday, the article was about the genius of Napoleon, so I wrote to the review if the heirs of the artisans would like to repair the damage, so the minuses fell like from a cornucopia.
    1. Dym71
      Dym71 16 August 2019 15: 17
      Quote: Ravil_Asnafovich
      heirs of the skiers

      Who are the ball-skiers just now found out smile
  5. Strashila
    Strashila 16 August 2019 15: 14
    For starters, let them return the property of the Russian Empire, compensate for the intervention during the years of the civil war, return that they grabbed the same Lenin gold ... and then they will think how far to send them.
  6. Amateur
    Amateur 16 August 2019 15: 22
    We discussed this on August 9, 2019.
    France again demanded payments on bonds of tsarist Russia

    Deja Vu or Groundhog Day?
  7. Ezekiel 25-17
    Ezekiel 25-17 16 August 2019 15: 27
    Well, put these 52, 5 tons of gold in credit and send them to, well, in general, at the address known to them.
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 16 August 2019 15: 32
    they at one time took 5620 gold bars from the chairman of the SNK of the RSFSR V. I. Ulyanov-Lenin for temporary storage
    .... And in what year was it? During the Civil War during the period of intervention? ... But there was no intervention ... to protect their property from the Germans .. When the Versailles peace was concluded, the danger of capture disappeared, the Allies calmly went home returned .. The official version ... laughing
  9. prior
    prior 16 August 2019 15: 48
    The paddlers still did not pay for the invasion of Napoleon, and there such percentages ran! Mama Do not Cry.
  10. NF68
    NF68 16 August 2019 16: 25
    Let Misha the labeled be addressed. He sold our once united Motherland and sold it clearly not for 30 and not even for 300 silver coins. Let him do something useful. He still doesn’t have much to live.
  11. Dmitry Potapov
    Dmitry Potapov 16 August 2019 16: 44
    "Barrymore, what's outside the window ?! Gay parade, sir! And why are they making such a noise !?. Gerasts, sir?"
  12. Prutkov
    Prutkov 16 August 2019 17: 24
    The French also need to share the indemnity they pulled from Germany following the WWI. And then somehow they "forgot" about their ally in the Entente.
    1. Avior
      Avior 16 August 2019 20: 55
      The Versailles Treaty provided for the right to contributions in favor of Russia, no matter how surprisingly it sounds. Section 116.
      Their size is another question, but there is a mention of this, not so much in Russia's favor, but to the detriment of Geomania
      . Section 116

      Germany recognizes and undertakes to respect, as a permanent and inalienable, independence of all territories that were part of the former Russian Empire by August 1, 1914.

      In accordance with the decisions included in Articles 259 and 292 of parts IX (Financial Provisions) and X (Economic Provisions) of this Treaty, Germany finally recognizes the cancellation of the Brest-Litovsk treaties, as well as any other treaties, agreements or conventions concluded by it with the Maximalist Government in Of Russia.

      The Allied and Associated Powers formally stipulate Russia's rights to receive any restitution and reparations from Germany based on the principles of this Treaty.,100059712,100060141,100060142#text
  13. dedBoroded
    dedBoroded 16 August 2019 17: 27
    Gold Kolchak give them, I think ...
  14. astepanov
    astepanov 16 August 2019 18: 26
    And the reparations following the results of the war of 1812, the frog eaters do not want to pay? Only burned Moscow is worth ...
  15. Thrifty
    Thrifty 16 August 2019 19: 24
    For the intervention against Russia from the French, you can safely claim compensation in a couple of trillion euros! And, if we dig further into history, then all of France for our debts to Russia should long belong to us.
  16. eagle owl
    eagle owl 16 August 2019 19: 52
    There, the trick is that since France and the Russian Federation refused mutual claims on matters before the 45th year, and now pasta are howling, saying that in private, let them serve. It is necessary to establish for example those who were in Odessa - and roll out claims to private owners for occupation by a private person in Odessa wink Like not to the state, but to his soldier - let's see
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 16 August 2019 20: 12
    These questions are not for us, first deal with Napoleon how much he owed for a burnt Moscow and the like, and the other and the other.
  18. karabass
    karabass 16 August 2019 20: 20
    Why raise a similar topic? Author? Well, maybe out of interest, but why is it?
  19. Mixanchik
    Mixanchik 16 August 2019 20: 47
    More than 20 years ago, Russia seemed to have paid off in full with French creditors,

    It’s time for Russia to present ALL accounts to Russia! How long will we endure this? hi
  20. bar
    bar 17 August 2019 08: 12
    French greedy (s)
  21. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 17 August 2019 10: 48
    But Ulyanov-Lenin is something - he gave the French for some reason a golden coin for temporary storage. And until now, we somehow did not know anything about it.
  22. tank64rus
    tank64rus 17 August 2019 16: 57
    Well well. And gentlemen, the French do not remember the Russian Expeditionary Force in 1916, which fought for paying loans made by Russia and Nicholas II. The gentlemen of the French are where the royal family's money was in the French bank. Where is the Russian gold transferred to the United States, England and France to pay for weapons. Where is Kolchakovo gold put in the state bank of Japan. Where are the payments and money laid down in the US Federal Reserve. And that’s not all. I think that more people abroad were interested in the execution of the royal family than the Bolsheviks. Why did the king of England refuse his cousin Nicky asylum. And that’s not all. So much gold was pumped out of Russia that this fuss and those who want to receive money and those who give can only be described obscene.
  23. Mixanchik
    Mixanchik 18 August 2019 11: 22
    We must always and everyone ... negative And when the Russian Empire collapsed in 1917, huge amounts of money remained in the accounts of Western countries in gold .. Where are they gentlemen? I am still silent about the mass removal of fledging bourgeois through the open borders of Soviet Russia! And the mass escape of Jews in the 90s .. It was a fairy tale that they just could not be taken out of humiliated and destroyed Russia. hi
    We will show you sooner or later for all our torment and genocide of the Russian people!
    And your lawyers are wolf packs, they won’t help you! soldier Pay everything and ask for forgiveness again .. (I’m surely tough, I know that they are now kicked and mouth shut, but I believe in it all the same, like many in distant Russia)
  24. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 18 August 2019 16: 37
    First, let them pay for the 1918 intervention. Everything: from France to Japan inclusive. The United States and England, too, let them shell out ..
  25. NF68
    NF68 20 August 2019 16: 14
    For that matter, maybe it makes sense to bill France for the French invasion of Russia in 1812? How much is there with interest, but given inflation, it can already accumulate?
  26. 1536
    1536 21 August 2019 09: 21
    Only one thing can be said to "partners" from abroad: keep and protect Russia, do not plot against its people, do not threaten war, revolutions and collapse, and it will repay on time and with interest those loans that it deems necessary to take from you on your development. But after a series of catastrophic events in our country that happened in the XX century, these gentlemen should pay our debts for organizing two world wars and social revolutions, for the intervention in 1918-1922, for subversive activities in the pre-war period, for the policy of "cold wars "against our country from 1945-1991, for containment, for Ukraine, but you never know why. Show them the bill for all these "deeds", no Greenland will be enough to pay off. However, we need it?