Military Review

2050 year combat aircraft concept and weapons based on new physical principles

87
В first material we considered the possibility of counteracting aircraft equipped with a laser weaponsusing tactics of massive launches of air-to-air (V-B) long and medium-range missiles in order to oversaturate the capabilities of laser weapons and anti-missiles to repel impact. We also found that pilots should try to evade close air combat with an aircraft equipped with laser weapons. However, with an increase in the power of laser weapons, this scenario of warfare may be ineffective, which will require a rethinking of the appearance of military aircraft to gain air supremacy.




What effect will the serial introduction of laser weapons have on the appearance of combat aircraft? One of the stated requirements for sixth generation aircraft is optional maneuverability, that is, the ability to operate an aircraft with or without a pilot. The possibility of creating artificial intelligence capable of making complex decisions in battle raises many more questions than the prospects of creating laser weapons, rail guns and hypersonic aircraft combined, but as for the cockpit, it is likely to undergo drastic changes.

1. Cockpit


The presence of laser weapons in the enemy will require you to hide the pilot inside the aircraft body, without the use of transparent structures. Piloting will be carried out using transparent armor technology.

There should not be any problems with the implementation of this technology, given that in fact it is already being used on F-35 family fighters and, apparently, it will actively develop in the future. In addition to the United States, work on the creation of “transparent armor” is underway in the UK, Israel, Russia and other countries.


Helmet Pilot F-35


2. Reconnaissance and guidance


Due to the lack of a transparent cabin and the high probability of damage to optical reconnaissance equipment by laser weapons, they will need to be redundantly backed up, separated to different points of the hull and provided with protection in the form of high-speed curtains that instantly close when laser radiation enters, or other means of physical protection of sensitive optics.

The basis of intelligence by 2050 year, most likely, will be a radio-optical phased array antenna (ROFAR). While details about all the possibilities of this technology are unknown, it is possible that the potential emergence of ROFAR will put an end to all existing technologies for reducing visibility. If difficulties arise with ROFAR, then advanced airplanes with active phased antenna arrays (radar with AFAR) will be used on promising aircraft.

3. Arming


The need to achieve cruising supersonic speed, reduce visibility and protect weapons from being hit by laser weapons will require its placement in the internal compartments.

Modern aircraft have an exceptionally tight layout. This negatively affects the convenience of their subsequent modernization and limits ammunition. This is especially noticeable on the example of fighters made with internal arms compartments. At the other end of the “scale”, you can put the American B-52 bomber, which, due to its excess strength and construction volume, has been successfully upgraded for more than half a century, and is likely to outlive its ultra-expensive stealth brothers. In the situation with laser weapons, a superdense layout can become an additional source of problems, which will require an increase in the size of a promising combat aircraft.


Internal weapons bays of modern multi-functional fighters


4. Anti-laser protection


Contrary to the belief that it is possible to protect yourself from laser radiation with a usual silverfish, to protect against powerful radiation you will need to use a special casing that includes several layers.

For example, it can be an outer layer with high thermal conductivity, able to “smear” the thermal effect of the laser along the body, while retaining its properties during high-temperature heating, and an inner layer that provides thermal insulation of internal volumes.

It should be borne in mind that such a coating should be resistant to long-term operation in various climatic conditions, to withstand overloads arising in flight, cyclic thermal and vibration loads. The creation of such protection is a complex scientific and technical task that will be updated as the power of laser weapons grows. It can be assumed that its thickness will be on the order of or more than a centimeter, which, taking into account the size of the aircraft and the need for its fastening, will add mass to the entire structure of the airframe.


Poor coverage can create a lot of problems when operating an aircraft


5. Laser weapon


Based on the rate of development of the LO, it can be assumed that, depending on the size of the aircraft, 2050-1 laser power of 2-300 kW can be installed on it by the 500 year, with the possibility of outputting radiation in the lower and upper plane of the aircraft, which will allow for almost circular affected area.

Most likely, these will be infrared fiber lasers, with a combination of power from several emitters. Implementation of guidance will include aiming with the gaze of the pilot and automated algorithms for selecting vulnerable points of the target.

6. Power sources for laser weapons and other on-board systems


The supply of lasers with electric energy will most likely be ensured by the removal of energy from the shafts of rotation of gas turbine engines.

In itself, the technology for part power removal is implemented in the F-35B vertical take-off and landing fighter to ensure the operation of the lifting fan. As mentioned in the previous article, it is in this way that the F-35 version with laser weapons can be built. The reduction in range and carrying capacity in this case is offset by the exceptional capabilities provided by the presence of laser weapons on board.


F-35B engine with power take-off for lift fan


As part of the ASuMED program, Germany has created a prototype of a fully superconducting synchronous aircraft engine with an output of 1 megawatts and a power density of 20 kilowatts per kilogram. Considering the reversibility of synchronous electric machines, compact electric generators can be created on the basis of this technology for powering laser weapons with minimum dimensions and high efficiency.


Prototype Superconducting Synchronous Aircraft Engine


7. Weight and size characteristics


The need to install laser weapons, power generators for it, the presence of large-sized weapon compartments and a massive anti-laser coating will lead to an increase in the size and take-off mass of promising combat aircraft.

In general, one cannot fail to notice the current trend of increasing size and mass of combat aircraft. For example, the mass of the F-35 is one and a half times the mass of its predecessor F-16, a similar situation exists with the F-15 and F-22 fighters. It can be assumed that the take-off mass of the promising multi-functional fighter 2050 of the year can range from 50 to 100 tons, which is comparable to that of the Tu-128 barrage interceptor, the unrealized MiG-7.01 multi-purpose long-range interceptor project or the Tu-22XX bomber-bomber. An increase in the mass and size of promising combat aircraft will lead to a decrease in their maneuverability. However, taking into account the presence of laser weapons and highly maneuverable anti-ballistic missiles, the own maneuverability of promising combat aircraft will no longer be significant.

2050 year combat aircraft concept and weapons based on new physical principles

Tu-128 interceptor, project of the MiG-7.01 multifunctional long-range interceptor, Tu-22М3 missile bomber


8. Engines


With high probability, it can be argued that the promising aircraft will be twin-engine. The total thrust of the engines should provide flight at supersonic speed without the use of afterburner.

In the power take-off mode for powering a laser weapon, the flight characteristics of the aircraft will decrease. By 2050, technical problems will probably be solved and pulsed aircraft-jet engines (PuVRD) or rotational detonation engines will begin to be put on airplanes. It is possible that on some types of promising aircraft engines it will not be possible to realize direct power take-off for powering laser weapons, which will require the installation of a separate generator with a compact gas turbine engine for this purpose.



From time to time, information arises about the implementation of the possibility of flying at hypersonic speeds on sixth generation aircraft. Of course, at the turn of the 2050 of the year, hypersonic aircraft can be implemented, but currently all the projects of promising bombers are executed in a subsonic version, not all countries manage to implement even stable cruising flights of fighter aircraft at supersonic speeds, and all projects of hypersonic aircraft significant technical difficulties. Thus, while hypersonic aircraft have not really been worked out even in the form of disposable missiles and warheads, it is difficult to talk about hypersonic flight speeds for promising manned combat aircraft.

9. Aerodynamic design


The layout of a promising combat aircraft will be optimized based on the need to install anti-laser protection and maintain a high cruising supersonic speed. In the event that at the turn of the 2050 years success is achieved in creating hypersonic aircraft, this will be a determining factor in choosing the layout of the aircraft.



Based on existing trends, we can assume the rejection of vertical plumage, the absence of front horizontal plumage (PGO). At the moment, this is primarily associated with the implementation of stealth technologies, but in the future, protection against thermal loads resulting from the high speed of flight and irradiation with laser weapons may become a determining factor.

10. Armament


Like the weapons of warships, the weapons of promising aviation complexes will include defensive and offensive systems. As an offensive weapon, to destroy enemy aircraft at long and medium ranges, B-B hypersonic missiles equipped with anti-laser protection will be used. If it is not possible to protect the missile’s radar from the damaging factors of laser radiation, then the missiles will be guided by the carrier via a secure radio channel or along the “laser path”.

As defensive weapons, small-sized highly maneuverable anti-missiles will be used. They can also be used in close air combat against enemy aircraft. Laser weapons will be used in a similar way - priority for hitting enemy attacking missiles, or for hitting enemy aircraft at close range.

At the turn of the 2050, the question may arise of equipping aircraft systems with another type of weapon based on new physical principles - a rail gun (RP). Currently, rail guns are considered as an element of armament of surface ships. It was originally planned that they would be armed with the latest American destroyers such as Zumwalt, but the technical difficulties that had arisen delayed the introduction of these weapons. Nevertheless, tests of rail guns are actively conducted in many countries of the world, including the USA, Turkey and China. In June of the 2019, the EMRG rail gun developed in the interests of the US Navy was successfully tested. In the near future it is planned to conduct tests directly on the ships of the US Navy.


Rail gun EMRG


Unlike ships that require a large 155 mm caliber and firing range of the order of 400-500 kilometers, on combat aircraft the rail gun caliber can be significantly reduced and amount to about 30-40 mm. Shooting should be carried out by projectiles controlled by the "laser path" technology over a range of about 100-200 km. Such a weapon will allow hitting enemy aircraft protected by laser weapons, since the high speed and small size of the rail gun shell will make it difficult to detect and destroy it. The presence of the control system in the projectile for RP is not due to the need to defeat highly maneuverable targets, but to the need to compensate for the deviation of the RP axis when firing, to compensate for atmospheric conditions and the possibility of changing the course of the target within the order of 5-15 degrees.

The rail gun can be placed along the axis of the aircraft, to obtain the maximum length of the booster section of the barrel. A separate question arises regarding the energy storage for such weapons, since even the power of the 1-2 MW generators providing power to the laser weapons is most likely not enough to power the rail gun. You must understand that the rail gun is technologically more complex, even compared to laser weapons. If the appearance of RP on ships is almost beyond doubt, then its adaptation for aircraft carriers can be quite complicated.

Near future


Speaking about the combat aircraft of the future, one cannot fail to mention two promising projects. First of all, it is a promising American strategic bomber B-21 Raider. Its predecessor, the B-2 bomber, which is being developed in complete secrecy, brought to the world of aviation a record low effective dispersion area (EPR) for such a huge machine. It is possible that the B-21 that is being developed to replace it will also contain any breakthrough solutions. For example, it can be equipped with defensive laser weapons and the ability to destroy enemy aircraft using a powerful airborne radar with AFAR and long-range V-V missiles. If these capabilities are realized, the B-21 Raider will conceptually be close to the appearance of a promising combat aircraft, discussed in this article (defensive aircraft, large ammunition).


B-21 Raider


In Russia, the development of the ideological successor of the MiG-31, a promising long-range interception aircraft complex (PAK DP), is periodically discussed in Russia. The non-existent car on the Internet is called the MiG-41. At the moment, the appearance of PAK DP is not finally formed. It is assumed that this will be a heavy vehicle with a flight speed in excess of 3500 km / h and a flight range of the order of 7000 km. According to other sources, the maximum speed can be 4-4,5 M, that is, 5000-5500 km / h. It is possible that, taking into account the predicted development time for the PAK DP - 2025-2030 years, its design will take into account potential threats emanating from laser weapons deployed on enemy aircraft.


One of the many PAK DA concepts


conclusions


Predicting the appearance of a combat aviation complex for such a long time is quite difficult. Is it possible in 1920 to reliably predict the appearance of the MiG-15 or MiG-17 based on the appearance of wooden biplanes? What are jet engines, radars, guided weapons? Only a screw, a machine gun, binoculars! Or to predict in the 1945 year the appearance of MiG-30 / F-25 machines that appeared after about 15 years?

The complexity of forecasting is associated both with high technical risks that accompany the development of fundamentally new technologies, such as a laser weapon, a rail gun or a detonation engine, and with the unpredictable appearance of completely new technologies that can radically change the face of promising aviation systems.

The alleged appearance of the 2050 combat aviation complex of the year is formed on the basis of extrapolating the capabilities of existing technologies that are currently at the initial stage of their development.

A factor that largely determines the appearance of the promising aviation complex of the 2050 of the year is the development of laser weapons. The logical chain in the formation of the appearance of a promising aviation complex is approximately the following:
- the advent of 100-300 kW lasers on existing fifth-generation fighters, in combination with small-sized CUDA-type missiles (2025-2035 years);
- training and / or real air battles of aircraft equipped with aircraft;
- the inevitability of the BVB as a consequence of the small ammunition of fifth-generation aircraft in combination with effective interception of V-V LO missiles and anti-missiles;
- high probability of mutual defeat of aircraft LO in the BVB;
- the need for shelter in a closed cockpit and redundancy of sensors;
- the need for anti-laser protection of aircraft and weapons;
- the need to increase ammunition;
- the growth of dimensions and mass of the aircraft.

As in any “sword and shield” confrontation, the appearance of promising combat aircraft will be determined by the rapid development of either laser weapons or means of defense against it. In the event that the capabilities of laser weapons outstrip the capabilities of defenses against it (coatings, skin), the appearance of promising combat aircraft will shift to that considered in this article. In the opposite version, the appearance of promising combat aircraft will be closer to existing concepts regarding relatively compact and maneuverable aircraft.
Author:
Photos used:
topwar.ru, arms-expo.ru, forum.militaryparitet.com, aviaru.rf
Articles from this series:
Laser weapons on combat aircraft. Is it possible to resist him?
Laser weapons: technology, history, status, prospects. Part of 1
Laser weapons: prospects in the air force. Part of 2
Laser weapons: ground forces and air defense. Part of 3
Laser weapons: navy. Part of 4
Resist light: protection from laser weapons. Part of 5
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  1. Angelo Provolone
    Angelo Provolone 16 August 2019 05: 34
    16
    And who will train the staff for the development of these beautiful machines?
    Education with us is carried out under the slogan:
    If you want to earn money ?? !!! There is a business. You didn’t go into business, right?

    That is, in education there are people who cannot find application in other areas, in business. Lecturers running between universities. as the lady says.
    Well done, thank you, nanomishka, for your frankness.
    1. Cry
      Cry 16 August 2019 11: 04
      -7
      You, Angelo, are not in danger, since flying pasta has not been invented.
  2. Thrifty
    Thrifty 16 August 2019 06: 08
    14
    The author, you will forgive me, but for your collection of fantasies from me a minus! - !! Actually, the 500 kW laser power is abruptly turned down, especially since now 100 kW at the output, in the form of a laser gun pulse, is a huge problem! And to get even a 250 kW pulse at the output, you will need ANY DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES! So, keep dreaming! And, by the way, since when did the impulse weapon suddenly become a "weapon based on NEW physical principles, or processes" ??? Who in general imposes this nonsense on the whole world? ??
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 06: 47
      +6
      Quote: Thrifty
      Author, you will excuse me, but minus me for your collection of fantasies! - !! Actually, the 500 kW of the laser power is abruptly bent, especially since now the 100 kW of the output, in the form of a laser gun pulse, is a huge problem! And to get even an 250 kW impulse at the output, ALL OTHER TECHNOLOGIES will be required! So, dream on!


      These are not my fantasies, but the fantasies of the US Air Force - https://topwar.ru/155386-lazernoe-oruzhie-perspektivy-v-voenno-vozdushnyh-silah-chast-2.html

      See roadmaps for laser weapon development. And we are not talking about pulsed lasers, namely, continuous operation. Rheinmetall launched the finished 100 kW laser module earlier this year.

      Quote: Thrifty
      And, by the way, since when did the impulse weapon suddenly become a "weapon based on NEW physical principles, or processes" ??? Who in general imposes this nonsense on the whole world? ??


      This is the common name for a group of new types of weapons. I understand that the name is better for a time machine or molecular disintegrator, but as it is ...

      Weapons on new physical principles
      New types of weapons, the damaging factors of which are based on processes and phenomena not previously used for military purposes. At the beginning of the 21 century, in various degrees of development and testing are: weapons of directed energy (laser, accelerator, microwave, infrasound); electromagnetic weapons (microwave, laser varieties); non-lethal weapons, the so-called not lethal; geophysical weapons (seismic, climatic, ozone, environmental); radiological and others. A special place is occupied by a weapon of destructive effect on the genetic apparatus of people - a genetic weapon.


      https://encyclopedia.mil.ru/encyclopedia/dictionary/[email protected]
      Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
      1. Thrifty
        Thrifty 16 August 2019 07: 38
        +6
        To release a module with an output of 100 kW, and having the same 100 kW at the output are two BIG differences! Laser weapons have and will always have one problem - excessive heat, which you need to either take away or accumulate in the form of an additional impulse! The more heat, the lower the output pulse power! You can make a gun on 100 kW, but how many shots is it enough? A drop in power is inevitable, because the main problem is overheating! Laser core overheating, focusing mirror overheating, structural elements overheating, overheating of electronic components! The problem is more complicated than they write about it, and the theory is constantly at variance with the de facto results obtained.
        1. astepanov
          astepanov 10 September 2019 11: 57
          0
          I will supplement it. Here is what the author writes about kinetic aviation weapons:
          A separate question arises regarding the energy storage for such weapons, since even the power of the 1-2 MW generators providing power to the laser weapons is most likely not enough to power the rail gun.
          Not likely, but for sure!
          on combat aircraft, the rail gun caliber can be significantly reduced and amount to about 30-40 mm. Shooting should be carried out by projectiles controlled by the "laser path" technology over a range of about 100-200 km.
          We count. With a caliber 30 mm, the mass of the projectile is approximately 0,5 kg, the barrel length will be 10 m, the departure speed is at least 2000 m / s (otherwise there is no reason to fence the garden). The kinetic energy of the projectile is exactly 1 MJ, with a barrel length of 10 m, the acceleration during acceleration of the projectile to 2000 m / s is 200 000 m / s / s, and the acceleration time is 0,01 s. Hence, the drive capacity should be 100 MW, and given the fact that the efficiency is less than one, more than 1000 MW. But this is not so bad: although the specific energy of the best drives leaves no more than 0,036 MJ / kg, and the specific power is up to MW / kg, the most capacious drives are low-power, and the most powerful are low-capacity. A rough estimate suggests that it is impossible to manufacture a drive weighing less than 10 - 15 tons with modern technologies. You can not spare 200 tons on a sea ship, but on a plane ... And do not wait for a breakthrough here.
    2. nickname7
      nickname7 17 August 2019 06: 59
      0
      using mass launch tactics

      The enemy will then use even more massive launches, then it will be a battle of economies, who will produce the most and then the first problem, the enemy’s economy is much stronger
      1. The comment was deleted.
    3. IS-80_RVGK2
      IS-80_RVGK2 18 August 2019 14: 44
      +1
      Quote: Thrifty
      weapons on NEW physical principles, or processes

      Yeah, funny gem, like the "digital economy". It is not clear only why the author is relaying someone else's stupidity? Maybe out of a sense of solidarity?
  3. Cry
    Cry 16 August 2019 06: 17
    +1
    Consider the concept point by point. 1) the cockpit is defined by the aerodynamic scheme, i.e. ninth paragraph, therefore, separately, the first paragraph of the concept implies a kamikaze pilot. 2) here it should be initially approached that the concept is carried at hypersonic speeds in the flow of the surrounding plasma with all the consequences arising from this, first of all, the complete loss of all radio communications. 3) hypersound requires the placement of weapons inside the concept, and 4-5) requires application in a plasma stream. 6-7) there are no carlsons with a motor for converting energy into electrical energy, therefore, conversion on the Seebeck-Peltier effect will be required, which will reduce the size, eliminating carlson with a motor. 8-10) the choice of the engine is dictated by the temperature of the plasma flowing around the concept, therefore, most likely, it will be necessary not external combustion, but external, respectively, the plasma temperature on the skin of the concept, from where the aerodynamic circuit and armament are chosen, including, from the conditions of energy conversion for new types of weapons, and one must understand that the concept in itself is a blank-shell with enormous kinetic energy, capable of crushing an aircraft carrier like a tin can.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 16 August 2019 07: 27
      +3
      here it should initially be approached that the concept is carried at hypersonic speeds in the flow of the surrounding plasma with all the consequences that come from this, first of all, the complete loss of all radio communications.

      technologies to overcome the loss of radio communications due to the plasma cocoon already exist. I would not be surprised if they are already used on any "Vanguards" and others like them
      the choice of the engine is dictated by the temperature of the plasma flowing around the concept, therefore, most likely, it will not require internal combustion, but external, corresponding to the plasma temperature on the concept skin

      engine selection is dictated by the flight modes of the aircraft when performing tasks. On hypersound, he constantly does not need to fly. But to carry out active and sustainable maneuvering in the atmosphere you need to accurately. Well, if we are not talking about a flying iron, the only task of which is to fly at maximum speed to point G and dump some useful cargo in it. And further along the route of the pilots of Doolittle
      1. Cry
        Cry 16 August 2019 11: 01
        -1
        Transition from subsonic speeds to hypersound, i.e. to large Mach numbers, requires the use of high-temperature insulating materials, otherwise the whole concept of zilch will burn in the air in its own surrounding plasma, especially in dense layers of the atmosphere. There are no ways to control low-temperature plasma; they cannot even hold it; therefore, in hypersound, the concept is a red-hot flying iron with a tremendous amount of movement and kinetic energy.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 16 August 2019 11: 17
          0
          There are no ways to control low-temperature plasma; they cannot even hold it

          do not say so categorically if you do not own the information. Three years ago, the German aerospace center Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt experimentally confirmed the formation of a stable "window" in the plasma flow, sufficient for receiving and transmitting data
          1. Cry
            Cry 16 August 2019 14: 06
            0
            So then, the Germans, and since you put them at the forefront, you propose the concept of the FAU-22 in the 21 century, you need to understand that. However, headache at high plasma temperatures is a major stumbling block in the development of insulation at high temperatures. Understand simply that without isolation inside your concept, everything will boil first, like in a tin can, and then it will burst like a firework.
  4. Pilyulkin
    Pilyulkin 16 August 2019 07: 39
    +4
    paragraph 1. the pilot will not be on the plane. There will be an operator on the ground or AI
    the rest is variable
    1. Azim77
      Azim77 16 August 2019 08: 39
      +1
      Yeah, the absence of a pilot, respectively, the cockpit and its reservation is a natural way of "evolution". With all due respect to the pilots! The "transparent armor" technology is in fact a ready-made technology for the operator on the ground. Only in your assumption "or" should be replaced with "and". Those. ground operator and AI. One manages the task and gives instructions to the AI, the second solves the issues of piloting, controls all flight parameters, and so on. In 2050 .. "I think so")
  5. rocket757
    rocket757 16 August 2019 07: 47
    -3
    Quote: Angelo Provolone
    And who will train the staff for the development of these beautiful machines?

    Question questions! Judging by the action of the upper ones, they will have to put the new / old Serdyukov at the head, when it turns out that to invent, design, improve technology, and even SOMEONE will work in high class. will again "pray" to foreigners. It's not even sadness, it's ....... and then pee-pee ...
  6. gridasov
    gridasov 16 August 2019 08: 58
    +1
    First, minds are needed to understand that temperature is a derivative of the general effects of magnetic fluxes. Therefore, the problem is not the removal of heat, but the question is the organization of such a process in which the disturbance flows will not oppose each other. Moreover, with beam scattering it is necessary to work on a completely different principle. In the same way with hydro-gas-dynamic flows, jets need to be organized, not just squeezed out.
  7. srha
    srha 16 August 2019 09: 01
    0
    Technical note on: "this can be an outer layer with high thermal conductivity" - "The role of thermal conductivity in cooling the layer is not significant." https://www.booksite.ru/fulltext/1/001/008/068/349.htm
    It is also problematic with engines for hypersound (the laws of physics (the energy of chemical combustion) cannot be fooled, and the efficiency has already been chosen almost everything).
    But I liked the idea of ​​dreaming.
  8. Fike_oz
    Fike_oz 16 August 2019 09: 18
    0
    Good luck with hypersound without vertical plumage
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 09: 44
      -1
      Quote: Fike_oz
      The layout of a promising combat aircraft will be optimized based on the need to install anti-laser protection and maintain a high cruising supersonic speed. If at the turn of the 2050 years success has been achieved in the creation of hypersonic aircraft, this will be a determining factor in choosing the layout of the aircraft.


      The layout of a promising combat aircraft will be optimized based on the need to install anti-laser protection and maintain a high cruising supersonic speed.

      In the event that at the turn of the 2050 years success is achieved in creating hypersonic aircraft, this will be a determining factor in choosing the layout of the aircraft.
      1. Fike_oz
        Fike_oz 16 August 2019 15: 10
        0
        And in the next paragraph, you say that based on current trends, we can assume the rejection of vertical plumage
  9. Undecim
    Undecim 16 August 2019 09: 44
    0
    Jules Verne, the author of the laurels, is haunted, it seems. Or Herbert Wells.
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 10: 16
      +2
      Quote: Undecim
      Jules Verne, the author of the laurels, is haunted, it seems. Or Herbert Wells.


      Not the worst examples, but you flatter me. I am interested in making a forecast and see how much it will correspond to reality.
      1. Undecim
        Undecim 16 August 2019 10: 28
        0
        Desire, of course, is perfectly normal. True fantasies on the topic and forecast, in my understanding, things are somewhat different.
        But these are details.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 16 August 2019 10: 33
          +2
          True fantasies on the topic and forecast, in my understanding, things are somewhat different

          it is desirable that the author’s forecasts are based on physical principles, and not on the principles of Nikolai Nosov
          1. Undecim
            Undecim 16 August 2019 10: 36
            0
            We are about the same thing, but in different words.
          2. Shopping Mall
            16 August 2019 11: 55
            +1
            Quote: Ka-52
            True fantasies on the topic and forecast, in my understanding, things are somewhat different

            it is desirable that the author’s forecasts are based on physical principles, and not on the principles of Nikolai Nosov


            They are based on open sources for the development of weapons of the leading armed countries of the world.
            1. Ka-52
              Ka-52 16 August 2019 12: 38
              +2
              They are based on open sources for the development of weapons of the leading armed countries of the world.

              Yes? And how do you plan to provide road stability at high speeds without vertical tail? This is the easiest question to write. What about handling? Ailerons and interceptors you are unlikely to provide normal controllability. This is not a slow-moving trough bomber.
              1. Shopping Mall
                20 August 2019 08: 08
                0
                Quote: Ka-52
                They are based on open sources for the development of weapons of the leading armed countries of the world.

                Yes? And how do you plan to provide road stability at high speeds without vertical tail? This is the easiest question to write. What about handling? Ailerons and interceptors you are unlikely to provide normal controllability. This is not a slow-moving trough bomber.


                Nothing that most of the fifth generation fighter projects are considered without vertical tail? Hence and -
                Based on existing trends can be assumed refusal of vertical plumage, lack of front horizontal plumage (PGO). At the moment, this is primarily due to the implementation of stealth technologies

                For this, various prototypes are created, various control schemes are investigated.

                And by the way, for me it is not a dogma and not critical at all. The main trend that I am talking about is the effect of the appearance of LO on the development prospects of aircraft:

                - the need for shelter in a closed cockpit and redundancy of sensors;
                - the need for anti-laser protection of aircraft and weapons;
                - the need to increase ammunition;
                - the growth of dimensions and mass of the aircraft.
                1. Old Skeptic
                  Old Skeptic 22 August 2020 16: 34
                  0
                  Quote: AVM
                  Is it okay that most of the fifth generation fighter projects are considered without vertical tail?

                  Only all 5th (fighters) with two keels and not one without stabilizers, and some also with PGO.
                  The main word "projects"
  10. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 16 August 2019 09: 52
    +2
    The laser on the ground will always be more powerful and its armor will be better than that of an aircraft laser.
    At the same time, defeat at the speed of light makes the superiority of the aircraft in speed unnecessary.
    So this will be the end of military aviation - at least manned.
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 10: 15
      0
      Quote: Kostadinov
      The laser on the ground will always be more powerful and its armor will be better than that of an aircraft laser.
      At the same time, defeat at the speed of light makes the superiority of the aircraft in speed unnecessary.
      So this will be the end of military aviation - at least manned.



      The purpose of laser weapons is primarily a weapon of self-defense, i.e. and as part of aviation systems, and as part of air defense, they will hit ammunition, but not carriers. More precisely, this is possible, but it will be more likely an exception to the rule. From an air defense laser, an airplane can hide behind the terrain and the curvature of the earth's surface.
      1. Ka-52
        Ka-52 16 August 2019 10: 29
        +1
        From an air defense laser, an airplane can hide behind the terrain and the curvature of the earth's surface.

        from an explosive laser, an airplane can go into the clouds. And then how?
        1. Shopping Mall
          16 August 2019 11: 44
          -1
          Quote: Ka-52
          From an air defense laser, an airplane can hide behind the terrain and the curvature of the earth's surface.

          from an explosive laser, an airplane can go into the clouds. And then how?


          1. And if there are no clouds?
          2. Their effectiveness is greatly exaggerated. Laser power is most affected by fog in the surface layer, i.e. to 50 meters. At altitude, everything is very scattered, it is only from the ground that the cloud seems impenetrable. In fact, up to 5-10 km in terms of range, the losses through it will be 5-10%. Do not forget that infrared radiation passes clouds perfectly, on which the greenhouse effect is based. And most of the lasers operate in the infrared range.

          Permeability of the atmosphere for IR -
          1. Ka-52
            Ka-52 16 August 2019 12: 30
            +1
            Do not forget that infrared radiation passes clouds perfectly, on which the greenhouse effect is based. And most of the lasers operate in the infrared range
            .

            for yehat (Sergey) wrote, for you I repeat:
            with infrared radiation you certainly pulled an owl on the globe. Because the power in the laser channel is orders of magnitude higher than solar radiation at the boundary of the atmosphere. And the higher the power, the stronger the regime of quasistationary evaporation, up to explosive. In which the anisotropic evaporation of each microdroplet of water (of which you hope clouds are composed) causes the appearance of a scattering thermal lens. And accordingly, the fracture rates of the beam itself. Therefore, the physics of the process is not as simple as in your advertising booklets
            1. Shopping Mall
              16 August 2019 12: 46
              -1
              Quote: Ka-52
              Do not forget that infrared radiation passes clouds perfectly, on which the greenhouse effect is based. And most of the lasers operate in the infrared range
              .

              for yehat (Sergey) wrote, for you I repeat:
              with infrared radiation you certainly pulled an owl on the globe. Because the power in the laser channel is orders of magnitude higher than solar radiation at the boundary of the atmosphere. And the higher the power, the stronger the regime of quasistationary evaporation, up to explosive. In which the anisotropic evaporation of each microdroplet of water (of which you hope clouds are composed) causes the appearance of a scattering thermal lens. And accordingly, the fracture rates of the beam itself. Therefore, the physics of the process is not as simple as in your advertising booklets


              This is called the process of self-diffusion of a laser beam in a plasma; it is cyclic, i.e. after self-focusing, the same focus of plasma focuses it.

              1. Constructor68
                Constructor68 16 August 2019 13: 57
                +1
                This is called the process of self-diffusion of a laser beam in a plasma; it is cyclic, i.e. after self-focusing, the same focus of plasma focuses it.

                You are confusing two physical principles.
  11. prior
    prior 16 August 2019 10: 42
    +4
    This is amazing!
    How humanity lacks super-modern means of destroying itself.
    How naive today looks like fighting with swords and spears, just some kind of children's fun.
    Whether it’s the case, he pressed a button and the whole world is in ruins ....
    Moreover, each next invention adds another problem.
    Is it true that man is a rational being?
  12. yehat
    yehat 16 August 2019 11: 02
    0
    I am still very skeptical about the combat value of laser weapons on airplanes in the next 20 years. On a Boeing, it can and can be put on a fairly effective gun, but on a smaller plane - no.
    I’m not talking about the effect of smoke and weather on the laser’s efficiency, but to hide behind a cloud of foil + smoke to block the firing sector is simple.
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 11: 54
      0
      Quote: yehat
      I am still very skeptical about the combat value of laser weapons on airplanes in the next 20 years. On a Boeing, it can and can be put on a fairly effective gun, but on a smaller plane - no.


      This is normal, everyone has different points of view. They put a chemical on Boeing, with a capacity of more than 1 MW, it is huge. New fiber lasers. The combat ones are still made on 100 kW, but they will definitely get to the 300. It’s not long to wait. By 2015 on the F-35 they will definitely test, until 2030 it will be serial. For self-defense against air-launched missiles, this is already good, and extremely dangerous in the BVB.

      Quote: yehat
      I’m not talking about the effect of smoke and weather on the laser’s efficiency, but to hide behind a cloud of foil + smoke to block the firing sector is simple.


      Foil and smoke will blow away stasis. The plane flies at speeds of the order of 1000 km / h.
  13. yehat
    yehat 16 August 2019 11: 03
    0
    Quote: Ka-52
    from an explosive laser, an airplane can go into the clouds. And then how?

    Well, firstly, the laser does not have to be in the luminosity spectrum.
    You can choose the frequencies that the clouds will be on the drum.
    1. Ka-52
      Ka-52 16 August 2019 11: 23
      0
      Well, firstly, the laser does not have to be in the luminosity spectrum.
      You can choose the frequencies that the clouds will be on the drum.

      away from physics Rayleigh dispersion and aerosol dispersion. Long live the lightsaber Jedi battles laughing
      1. yehat
        yehat 16 August 2019 11: 45
        0
        Quote: Ka-52
        away from physics Rayleigh dispersion and aerosol dispersion.


        whatever one may say, penetration ability depends on the frequencies of the laser beam,
        braid at least 100 dispersion options.
        1. Ka-52
          Ka-52 16 August 2019 12: 09
          0
          You can choose the frequencies that the clouds will be on the drum.

          whatever one may say, penetration ability depends on the frequencies of the laser beam,
          braid at least 100 dispersion options.

          Water droplets of fog, absorbing the energy of the pulse of the beam, evaporate, which causes heating of the interdroplet medium of the atmosphere. An increase in the temperature of the gaseous medium is accompanied by its thermal expansion, which leads to a decrease in the dielectric constant of the medium in the channel of the light beam and, as a consequence, to the phenomenon of thermal defocusing of light. As a result of fogging with a powerful laser pulse, the medium acquires the properties of a scattering thermal lens, which leads to a significant drop in the power density in the laser beam channel. And at least how you change the "frequency" of the explosive mode of evaporation of water droplets with a significant pulse energy you cannot avoid. And your pictures are good only to shave the hair on your legs laughing
          1. yehat
            yehat 16 August 2019 12: 23
            0
            attenuation and screen are two different things.
            it is clear that in a vacuum the laser works more efficiently.
          2. Shopping Mall
            16 August 2019 12: 52
            0
            Quote: Ka-52
            You can choose the frequencies that the clouds will be on the drum.

            whatever one may say, penetration ability depends on the frequencies of the laser beam,
            braid at least 100 dispersion options.

            Water droplets of fog, absorbing the energy of the pulse of the beam, evaporate, which causes heating of the interdroplet medium of the atmosphere. An increase in the temperature of the gaseous medium is accompanied by its thermal expansion, which leads to a decrease in the dielectric constant of the medium in the channel of the light beam and, as a consequence, to the phenomenon of thermal defocusing of light. As a result of fogging with a powerful laser pulse, the medium acquires the properties of a scattering thermal lens, which leads to a significant drop in the power density in the laser beam channel. And at least how you change the "frequency" of the explosive mode of evaporation of water droplets with a significant pulse energy you cannot avoid. And your pictures are good only to shave the hair on your legs laughing

  14. Last centurion
    Last centurion 16 August 2019 11: 40
    +1
    all of these lasers will not be effective on airplanes. flew into the clouds and all. or make a system for setting smoke under pressure at the rate of flight. rather hypersonic homing missiles to intercept at a great distance ..
    to put a railgun on an airplane ... why? it’s understandable for a ship to reduce the cost of a shot, and here to increase the cost and weight of the aircraft? it will be interesting to look at the protection of the electronics of an airplane when fired from rails ... flight-controlled projectiles for a railgun are generally unscientific fiction ... all electronics will burn out when fired
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 12: 51
      0
      Quote: Last centurion
      all of these lasers will not be effective on airplanes. flew into the clouds and all. or make a system for setting smoke under pressure at the rate of flight. rather hypersonic homing missiles to intercept at a great distance ..
      to put a railgun on an airplane ... why? it’s understandable for a ship to reduce the cost of a shot, and here to increase the cost and weight of the aircraft? it will be interesting to look at the protection of the electronics of an airplane when fired from rails ... flight-controlled projectiles for a railgun are generally unscientific fiction ... all electronics will burn out when fired


      Fiction is not science fiction, but it is under them that RPs do. You can always, or almost always, find a solution. For example, a double metallized case, which opens after a shot + circuitry solutions.
  15. Demagogue
    Demagogue 16 August 2019 11: 56
    0
    Quote: Thrifty
    To release a module with an output of 100 kW, and having the same 100 kW at the output are two BIG differences! Laser weapons have and will always have one problem - excessive heat, which you need to either take away or accumulate in the form of an additional impulse! The more heat, the lower the output pulse power! You can make a gun on 100 kW, but how many shots is it enough? A drop in power is inevitable, because the main problem is overheating! Laser core overheating, focusing mirror overheating, structural elements overheating, overheating of electronic components! The problem is more complicated than they write about it, and the theory is constantly at variance with the de facto results obtained.


    The problem with excess heat is the efficiency problem. On low-power lasers, it is high and, accordingly, they do not heat up. On high-power lasers, the efficiency drops. But this is only a matter of time until the efficiency is improved. And what is the problem on a ship laser system to provide a water cooling circuit? Is there air cooling on the plane? For mobile terrestrial mobile installations, the restriction is more serious, but again - a matter of time.
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 12: 49
      0
      Quote: Demagogue
      Quote: Thrifty
      To release a module with an output of 100 kW, and having the same 100 kW at the output are two BIG differences! Laser weapons have and will always have one problem - excessive heat, which you need to either take away or accumulate in the form of an additional impulse! The more heat, the lower the output pulse power! You can make a gun on 100 kW, but how many shots is it enough? A drop in power is inevitable, because the main problem is overheating! Laser core overheating, focusing mirror overheating, structural elements overheating, overheating of electronic components! The problem is more complicated than they write about it, and the theory is constantly at variance with the de facto results obtained.


      The problem with excess heat is the efficiency problem. On low-power lasers, it is high and, accordingly, they do not heat up. On high-power lasers, the efficiency drops. But this is only a matter of time until the efficiency is improved. And what is the problem on a ship laser system to provide a water cooling circuit? Is there air cooling on the plane? For mobile terrestrial mobile installations, the restriction is more serious, but again - a matter of time.


      Efficiency has already been raised to 40-50%, depending on the power. The total power is increased by summing the flows with a diffraction grating, so as not to increase the power of each block, losing efficiency. It seems like a fiber laser can achieve an efficiency of 70-80%

      Here - https://topwar.ru/index.php?do=go&url=aHR0cHM6Ly90b3B3YXIucnUvMTU3ODI0LWJyaXRhbmN5LXBva2F6YWxpLWdpYnJpZG51anUtamVuZXJnb3VzdGFub3ZrdS1kbGphLWJvZXZ5aC1sYXplcm92Lmh0bWw%3D - power plant for laser at 100 kW with cooling into account.
  16. 123456789
    123456789 16 August 2019 12: 12
    +1
    Quote: AVM
    I am interested in making a forecast and see how much it will correspond to reality.

    In 1894, the Times of London newspaper estimated that by 1950, every street in the city would be covered with horse manure with a thickness of almost 3 meters.
    In New York in the 1890 year, it was estimated that by 1930 the layer of horse manure in the city streets would reach the windows of the third floor.
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 12: 40
      0
      Quote: 123456789
      The complexity of forecasting is associated both with high technical risks that accompany the development of fundamentally new technologies, such as a laser weapon, a rail gun or a detonation engine, and with the unpredictable appearance of completely new technologies that can radically change the face of promising aviation systems.


      They could not take into account the development of fundamentally new technologies.

      The complexity of forecasting is associated both with high technical risks that accompany the development of fundamentally new technologies, such as laser weapons, rail guns or detonation engines, and with the unpredictable emergence of completely new technologies that can radically change the face of promising aviation systems.
  17. E.S.
    E.S. 16 August 2019 12: 20
    +2
    "Or predict in 1945 the appearance of the MiG-30 / F-25 machines that appeared in about 15 years?"
    ===============
    And who, in the 1951 year, seeing off the first flight of the B-52, could have assumed that this aircraft would form the basis of the strategic aviation fleet in seventy years?
    And what took off in the 1972 year F-15 flies half a century?
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 12: 39
      0
      Quote: E.S.
      "Or predict in 1945 the appearance of the MiG-30 / F-25 machines that appeared in about 15 years?"
      ===============
      And who, in the 1951 year, seeing off the first flight of the B-52, could have assumed that this aircraft would form the basis of the strategic aviation fleet in seventy years?
      And what took off in the 1972 year F-15 flies half a century?


      I hope that the B-52 flies 100 years, it will be extremely instructive in terms of resource combat aircraft. By the way, it is highly likely to be equipped with laser self-defense weapons.
  18. srha
    srha 16 August 2019 13: 10
    0
    By the way, in the article and discussion, the word "power" is often found, and what does it mean when applied to laser weapons, or in other words, what are you talking about?
    Just as an example, if the energy of combustion of a match, let ~ 1500 J, is shoved into a pulse lasting one hundredth of a second, then we get 150 kW - can this injection be a fighting force? And if in one millionth and the match energy is converted to a gigawatt of power - will you notice it on clothes at all?
    But alright, even if there is a continuous power of one hundred and two hundred matches per second (150-300 kW) - do you seriously know how to protect yourself from this?
    1. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 14: 33
      0
      Quote: srha
      By the way, in the article and discussion, the word "power" is often found, and what does it mean when applied to laser weapons, or in other words, what are you talking about?
      Just as an example, if the energy of combustion of a match, let ~ 1500 J, is shoved into a pulse lasting one hundredth of a second, then we get 150 kW - can this injection be a fighting force? And if in one millionth and the match energy is converted to a gigawatt of power - will you notice it on clothes at all?
      But alright, even if there is a continuous power of one hundred and two hundred matches per second (150-300 kW) - do you seriously know how to protect yourself from this?


      Well, how can this be written? Where is even a word about pulsed lasers?

      At the end of the article links to a series about laser weapons. Now pulsed lasers are not used, only continuous lasers that work on the target for 3-10 seconds, during which the beam remains on the target. These are not my inventions.
      1. srha
        srha 19 August 2019 20: 29
        0
        Quote: AVM
        Where is even a word about pulsed lasers?
        Hmm ... where do I have even a word about them? But your passage is remarkable in that it really indicates a good example (and you yourself voiced it, mind you, not me - I wrote about matches, because sometimes it is useful to try on "parrots" to understand the scale of the "problem"), insufficient use one indicator for assessing real combat work. And it remains to ask your quote:
        Quote: AVM
        Well, how can you write this?

        By the way, "3-10 seconds" for 150 kW is already burning 30 - 100 grams of matches for 3-10 seconds. You seriously don’t know how to protect yourself from this?
  19. Demagogue
    Demagogue 16 August 2019 13: 12
    0
    Quote: AVM


    Efficiency has already been raised to 40-50%, depending on the power. The total power is increased by summing the flows with a diffraction grating, so as not to increase the power of each block, losing efficiency. It seems like a fiber laser can achieve an efficiency of 70-80%

    Here - https://topwar.ru/index.php?do=go&url=aHR0cHM6Ly90b3B3YXIucnUvMTU3ODI0LWJyaXRhbmN5LXBva2F6YWxpLWdpYnJpZG51anUtamVuZXJnb3VzdGFub3ZrdS1kbGphLWJvZXZ5aC1sYXplcm92Lmh0bWw%3D - power plant for laser at 100 kW with cooling into account.


    The problem with overheating of lasers is largely contrived. If we take the installation on offshore platforms, then the American laser changes the phalanx, which cannot conduct more than 20-30 seconds of continuous fire. Yes, the same air defense systems "do not heat up", but they have a limited bq, which all alone limits the time of firing. And the laser doesn't.
  20. Corn
    Corn 16 August 2019 13: 46
    +1
    I think that you are not pushing from there.
    The main breakthrough in our time is made by information technology, which means in the foreseeable future there will be no place for a pilot in the “gain air superiority” machine, neither in the machine itself, nor in the form of an operator on the ground.
    Therefore, it is most logical to make such a machine as cheap as possible and use it as a consumable, which is not a pity.
    Special mention deserves the so-called. ROFAR. Is the author of the article sure that this gravitsap exists in our world?
    1. Constructor68
      Constructor68 16 August 2019 14: 04
      +2
      Then it is not an "air superiority machine", but a typical modern drone - an RVV carrier. For a breakthrough, air defense will do.
      In general, the author half pulled his ears, half he thought up. The information content of the article is zero. But for fun it is wink
      1. Corn
        Corn 16 August 2019 18: 03
        0
        typical modern drone - carrier RVV
        and you know a lot of modern drones with RVV, and even autonomous?
        In general, the author half pulled his ears, half he thought up. The information content of the article is zero. But for fun it’s the most wink
        A lot is really far-fetched, yes, but as additional food for the mind will do. For example, I did not know many of the facts presented here.
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 16 August 2019 19: 02
          +2
          and you know a lot of modern drones with RVV, and even autonomous?

          A strange question .... The author writes about a fantastic future, you write about a fantastic future, and you ask me a question about reality, and even modern one. what I meant the concept of a typical drone (the same mq1 in the strike version), used more like a flying platform for the RVV, as part of a swarm. Cheap and unmanned are two promising constants. Autonomy programmatically ask him it will not be so difficult
    2. Shopping Mall
      16 August 2019 14: 30
      -1
      Quote: Corn
      I think that you are not pushing from there.
      The main breakthrough in our time is made by information technology, which means in the foreseeable future there will be no place for a pilot in the “gain air superiority” machine, neither in the machine itself, nor in the form of an operator on the ground.
      Therefore, it is most logical to make such a machine as cheap as possible and use it as a consumable, which is not a pity.


      Unfortunately, maybe fortunately, while the creation of a full-fledged AI (the so-called “strong artificial intelligence”) is pure fantasy, and everything else is an appendage to a person. Activities will be simplified, but will not be able to replace.

      Quote: Corn
      Special mention deserves the so-called. ROFAR. Is the author of the article sure that this gravitsap exists in our world?


      Not sure, therefore, I clarify:

      The basis of intelligence by 2050 year, most likely, will be a radio-optical phased array antenna (ROFAR). While details about all the possibilities of this technology are unknown, it is possible that the potential emergence of ROFAR will put an end to all existing technologies for reducing visibility. If difficulties arise with ROFAR, then advanced airplanes with active phased antenna arrays (radar with AFAR) will be used on promising aircraft.
      1. Corn
        Corn 16 August 2019 18: 06
        -1
        Unfortunately, maybe fortunately, while creating a full-fledged AI
        it’s not even AI, the algorithms can be written now, the computer has beaten a person in chess without any self-training. Already now planes can take off and land on their own, perform spatial orientation, low-altitude flight with envelope relief, search for and capture a target, take countermeasures (for example, shooting infrared / UV traps) the robot can itself, and probably the day is not far off when in software will prescribe a fully autonomous flight mission.
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 16 August 2019 19: 32
          +1
          Automation is now quite advanced, if it makes it possible to fly on irons like all the latest offspring of the American military-industrial complex, starting with a nighthawk. But until full control of the machine during an air battle, no SK will have enough performance, even with its weight. And if we already throw out the entire human economy (with all its boreholes, K36, etc.) + the weight of the pilot, then we get an additional kg that way 250-300. Not so much to squeeze a supercomputer with such crazy performance. Not to mention its price
          1. Corn
            Corn 16 August 2019 20: 13
            0
            But until full control of the machine during an air battle, no SK will have enough performance, even with its weight.
            even modern toys perform aerobatics once or twice, and as they write adequate algorithms for analyzing incoming information and responding to it, the need to control a person disappears, no computing equipment is needed here, just the same as the human brain does not sparkle with reaction speed.
            And if we all the human economy (with all its SLE, K36, etc.) will throw
            the cockpit with the pilot and all related equipment not only weighs at least half a ton and degrade aerodynamics, they also impose underestimating restrictions on overloads and operational requirements. At one time, it was the mandatory presence of a pilot who buried the projects of aircraft for vertical take-off and landing on the tail (i.e., without dancing with tambourines around rotating nozzles, or a multi-engine layout), and now it is impossible to return to them, i.e. strong dependence on vulnerable ground infrastructure (aerodromes) will disappear.
            1. Constructor68
              Constructor68 16 August 2019 20: 51
              +1
              aerobatics even modern toys perform one-two

              To you, who are familiar with aerobatics only from toys, it always seems "one or two". You talk about aerial combat in the same way either by toys or advertising brochures. For experienced pilots, this will only cause a smile. smile
  21. yehat
    yehat 16 August 2019 15: 56
    -1
    Quote: AVM
    Foil and smoke will blow away stasis. The plane flies at speeds of the order of 1000 km / h.

    the laser also does not have a death wave, but a thin beam.
  22. yehat
    yehat 16 August 2019 15: 58
    0
    Quote: Corn
    for the pilot, and not in the machine itself, nor as an operator on the ground.

    to the creation of a full-fledged AI is still very far away.
    so a lot of operators will be needed. In the US Army, there is now 25% shortage of this personnel.
  23. yehat
    yehat 16 August 2019 16: 02
    -1
    Quote: AVM
    Now pulsed lasers are not used, only continuous lasers that work on the target for 3-10 seconds, during which the beam remains on the target. These are not my inventions.

    are used, but not single-pulse, but issuing a series of pulses.
    It is precisely such an X-ray laser of high power that we and the Americans have developed in the race under the SDI program, and as far as I know, there is one in South Africa.
  24. Klingon
    Klingon 16 August 2019 16: 49
    +2
    I don’t think that the pilot will need to * pack * inside the device, he will not be needed there at all. Such an aircraft will be controlled by either an AI or a pilot operator with complete immersion in virtual reality. The pilot will be located inside the aircraft and feel like part of a combat vehicle, and not as drones are now controlled by looking at the monitor. Moreover, flying in hypersound with a living pilot inside is such a thing, the flight itself is okay, but acceleration to hypersound and the overloads associated with it ... In addition, these devices will be more likely to be aerospace. They will have the ability to transatmospheric flight with access to a low orbit
    1. Constructor68
      Constructor68 16 August 2019 19: 12
      +1
      No need to rave about AI as the flight manager of a modern IFI. A brain capable of absorbing and processing the entire load of air combat will either not be very soon (most likely not in this century) or it will not be needed.
      1. Klingon
        Klingon 16 August 2019 20: 51
        +1
        no one raves, but you will not even notice how this happens. First, these will be auxiliary self-learning correcting programs for the virtual operator-pilot (for clarity, the arcade mode in game air battles where the lead, speed and other parameters are calculated by the computer for the player, as opposed to the realistic mode where the player controls the virtual plane and the computer only calculates its actions )
        then these programs will completely supersede the pilot-operator so they will improve themselves and surpass this person. And it is not necessary for such a program to have full intelligence. The intelligence level of the insect is sufficient. Don't be numbed by a skeptic. Don't underestimate progress. Let us recall the folding communicator of the Enterprise crew from Star Trek 60's. The prototype of which was the communicator guess for yourself. Perhaps you are holding it in your hands))
        1. Constructor68
          Constructor68 16 August 2019 21: 04
          +1
          Don't tell me about toys. Above, one gambling addict has already painted all the "delights" of gaming intelligence in his imagination. I flew enough in my time as an operator on the 24th to know HOW events sometimes develop that no one of your computers can predict.
          1. Klingon
            Klingon 16 August 2019 22: 20
            0
            You flew off. Honor, praise and respect. Even take off my hat. Seriously and without sarcasm, the Mi-24 is a serious machine! But the future belongs to operators from the category of * gamers * and AI, whatever it is, believe me it will be so. The analogy with a smartphone, well, you understand
        2. Ka-52
          Ka-52 19 August 2019 05: 10
          0
          Let us recall the folding communicator of the Enterprise crew from Star Trek 60's. The prototype of which was the communicator guess for yourself. Perhaps you are holding it in your hands))

          we remember everything else in Star Trek (interplanetary flights, adz lasers, teleportation, protective shields, etc.) and we understand that the only thing what humanity has advanced in creating a gadget that at 99% for the vast majority of users serves only as a means of entertainment.
          First, these will be auxiliary self-learning correcting programs for the virtual operator-pilot (for clarity, the arcade mode in game air battles where the lead, speed and other parameters are calculated by the computer for the player, as opposed to the realistic mode where the player controls the virtual plane and the computer only calculates its actions )

          No need to fantasize in the style of Ostap Bender. Piloting, piloting with the evasion mode, piloting with the possibility of long-range search and launch of missiles from long and medium distances, a massive breakthrough of layered enemy defenses, etc. - these are, in principle, the real tasks of an UAV armed with an intelligent control system. And basically this enough! In the next 100 years, no AI can be compared with the pilot’s brain when forecasting and interaction are possible. No AI can, as part of a tactical link, build those schemes that pilots have long used. It will be enough if UAVs, endowed with the above capabilities, but not expensive, can take on the most dangerous parts of air operations, go ahead of manned strikers, take on the main defense strike, open and thin out it. Leaving manned aircraft only finishing off a weakened enemy.
          1. Klingon
            Klingon 19 August 2019 13: 37
            0
            100 years ago there were gadgets, lasers, generally airplanes?
            and you are a skeptic, like you, it seems to me that slows down progress. Let's live 100 years and see who is right
            in the meantime, look at least this:
            https://youtu.be/9mxL4hz6Gjo
  25. Demagogue
    Demagogue 16 August 2019 22: 55
    -1
    Quote: yehat
    Quote: AVM
    Now pulsed lasers are not used, only continuous lasers that work on the target for 3-10 seconds, during which the beam remains on the target. These are not my inventions.

    are used, but not single-pulse, but issuing a series of pulses.
    It is precisely such an X-ray laser of high power that we and the Americans have developed in the race under the SDI program, and as far as I know, there is one in South Africa.


    Single-pulse lasers do not work, because they turn the irradiated surface into ionized plasma, and then the beam does not penetrate. The pulsating beam, in contrast to them, does not burn, but rather tears apart the irradiated surface with a multitude of hits at intervals. It is more efficient.
    Modern lasers have nothing to do with soy. There were dead-end chemical lasers and even nuclear ones. At the heart of modern technology are civil solid-state lasers. Thanks to this, development is cheap.
  26. grumbler
    grumbler 17 August 2019 15: 32
    0
    The laser looks more like an auxiliary tool (sensing; dazzle and disorientation of surveillance devices).
    But, perhaps, it has a destructive potential like the "last line of self-defense" of an aircraft, within a radius of tens of meters - to destroy attacking warheads, projectiles, etc. There is no thick layer of the atmosphere where the beam is absorbed / scattered and loses its effectiveness. But the huge scanning speed of the laser beam (which is now achieved not by ordinary mirrors with electromechanical control, but by active binary optics and optically active media) is useful. With a threat (detected by the radar), the lidar can scan the space around the aircraft and instantly transmit target designation to the striking beam (or multiple beams).
    Ideally, such an emitter should be multi-mode - it scans most of the time, and when a target is detected, the power rises for damage.
    But everything rests on engineering "prose": to create such lasers, high-power sweep / focusing systems and onboard energy sources (as a fantasy: this can be realized if the engines of the planes of the future turn into some "analogs" of chemical lasers or masers. For which I drowned in the topic "Fighters of the sixth generation for the US Air Force and Navy. Plans and desires", https://topwar.ru/159914-plany-i-zhelanija-istrebiteli-shestogo-pokolenija-dlja-vvs-i-vms -ssha.html, and when discussing quantum-gravitons at http://vpk-news.ru).

    Yes, and the question of the survival of fundamental / applied science, education is, perhaps, even the main one here.
  27. ilik54
    ilik54 17 August 2019 16: 20
    -1
    A spaceship that will fly into outer space is similar to a tank and a May bug at the same time. In size, it is larger than a modern fighter and smaller than a modern bomber. He has wings with a variable position, fastening, almost, the same as the wings of the May beetle. When turning, the wings will be very effective for flying at low speed or hovering near the ground. He will have seven pulsed engines, two for flights in the atmosphere, four for flights in space and one for vertical take-off and landing. The space pilots will have a sealed armored capsule with ejection even in space, like a descent vehicle with four pulse engines, so that after an accident it can fly to the habitats of civilization. The crew is three people. Cockpit, armored with a view at 360 degrees in all hemispheres via video cameras. In the lower part of the fuselage under the cockpit there is a lock chamber for exiting the apparatus and for docking with the space station. Armament - from laser weapons to cannons and machine guns capable of conducting effective fire in the atmosphere and space, both on ground targets and on air targets. It will be equipped with hypersonic cruise missiles and high-precision gliding bombs. Missile shooting, as from submarines from the front hemisphere. Well, of course, it is equipped with all electronic warfare systems to suppress and detect enemy targets at all levels. Flying in the atmosphere at high speeds will take place in a cloud of plasma.
    1. grumbler
      grumbler 17 August 2019 16: 47
      0
      And where are the caterpillars to move along the bottom, ram and gimlets to perforate the enemy protective energy field? :))
  28. Mister who
    Mister who 19 August 2019 08: 38
    0
    Remember the people, everything that is shown is no longer a novelty and secret, if you showed something, it means you have already come up with a better replacement, whether it be a c-500, a new plane, etc. better))) and they won’t show it to us))
  29. Mister who
    Mister who 19 August 2019 08: 49
    0
    There is a joke: one state wanted to deliver a surprise blow to another, it sent its passenger planes to all the airports of another, only instead of passengers there would be poison weapons and a mustache, would the missile defense save from this? ))) it's just humor, a fantasy broke out))
  30. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 23 August 2019 10: 48
    0
    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Kostadinov
    The laser on the ground will always be more powerful and its armor will be better than that of an aircraft laser.
    At the same time, defeat at the speed of light makes the superiority of the aircraft in speed unnecessary.
    So this will be the end of military aviation - at least manned.



    The purpose of laser weapons is primarily a weapon of self-defense, i.e. and as part of aviation systems, and as part of air defense, they will hit ammunition, but not carriers. More precisely, this is possible, but it will be more likely an exception to the rule. From an air defense laser, an airplane can hide behind the terrain and the curvature of the earth's surface.

    It’s good that the plane can hide from air defense behind the telephone of the area, behind the clouds, in the rain, and so on, but the ground vehicle can do it even better. A ground vehicle can also be hit by a laser, the control of ammunition dropped from an airplane. Then the plane will have to hit targets on the ground with unguided ammunition.
    In all cases, the laser makes the basic aircraft prejudice unnecessary.
    1. Shopping Mall
      23 August 2019 11: 49
      0
      Quote: Kostadinov
      Quote: AVM
      Quote: Kostadinov
      The laser on the ground will always be more powerful and its armor will be better than that of an aircraft laser.
      At the same time, defeat at the speed of light makes the superiority of the aircraft in speed unnecessary.
      So this will be the end of military aviation - at least manned.



      The purpose of laser weapons is primarily a weapon of self-defense, i.e. and as part of aviation systems, and as part of air defense, they will hit ammunition, but not carriers. More precisely, this is possible, but it will be more likely an exception to the rule. From an air defense laser, an airplane can hide behind the terrain and the curvature of the earth's surface.

      It’s good that the plane can hide from air defense behind the telephone of the area, behind the clouds, in the rain, and so on, but the ground vehicle can do it even better. A ground vehicle can also be hit by a laser, the control of ammunition dropped from an airplane. Then the plane will have to hit targets on the ground with unguided ammunition.
      In all cases, the laser makes the basic aircraft prejudice unnecessary.


      You don’t really hide behind the cloud-rains, you don’t even need to hide the ground vehicle, it has much less weight restrictions. The tank will not burn any laser in the foreseeable future.

      I see the situation like this. Neither the plane nor the air defense will be able to work with each other's lasers, but they will be able to intercept each other's ammunition.

      What will this mean from a practical point of view? The fact that the role of aviation will decrease - it will be able to hit only the most important targets with heavy, large, expensive ammunition (controlled by GPS, radio command guidance by Terk, etc.). But small-sized cheap ammunition will precipitate, i.e. the role of ground combat, including tanks will increase.
  31. gridasov
    gridasov 20 September 2019 13: 50
    +1
    The lack of a solution to the fundamental question turns all these dreams into impossible fantasies.
  32. Victor V. Apollonov
    Victor V. Apollonov April 18 2020 22: 31
    0
    This article once again shows the importance of a good understanding of the subject under discussion. Having no idea about the development trends of laser physics, one can dramatically go the other way in the development of aviation technology. A blunder in one can lead to gigantic mistakes in the other! And these are hundreds of billions and decades.