The project "Carmel". The armored future of the Israeli army

Since 2017, Israeli defense enterprises and the military regularly talked about the progress of the promising Carmel project. It is part of the larger RAKIA program and is intended to work out fundamentally new ideas and solutions in the field of land armored vehicles. Until recently, only graphics were featured at exhibitions, and now the public has been shown three prototypes of new technology at once.


The project "Carmel". The armored future of the Israeli army
The alleged appearance of the Carmel combat vehicle in the final configuration


Big plans


For the first time, the Carmel project (short for “prospective armored vehicle of the ground forces”) was told in May 2017. Then the representatives of the IDF disclosed their plans and also pointed out the basic requirements for the future vehicle. The main goal of the project is to create a promising armored fighting vehicle with a number of fundamentally new functions and capabilities. It was assumed the maximum use of automated systems and the introduction of new solutions.

The result of the project should be a light or medium-weight armored vehicle, suitable for use as a universal platform. In this case, the main goal so far is to create a combat version of such a machine with missile-cannon weapons.

The crew was proposed to be reduced to two people with the possibility of introducing a third. The latter can be a unit commander or an additional equipment operator. The customer requires to maximize the situational awareness of the crew at the expense of all available means. It was also necessary to reduce the burden on people by automatically solving most problems, including driving and guidance weapons.


Prototype from Elbit


The RAKIA and Carmel projects envisage the work of various enterprises for several years. At the first stage of the program, it was planned to work out the general appearance of the equipment and its capabilities, as well as issues related to instrumentation equipment. At the same time, the creation of a caterpillar chassis of a new appearance is attributed to a further period.

Participants and prototypes


All major Israeli defense industry enterprises, as well as several organizations from the Ministry of Defense, were involved in new projects. In recent years, they used to study the RAKIA / Carmel, and now they were able to present prototypes.

In early August, the first open demonstration of three prototypes of the Carmel machine from different developers took place at once. Prototypes were built by IAI, Rafael and Elbit. The event was attended by representatives of the IDF and foreign armed forces. It is expected that this will lead to the start of mutually beneficial international cooperation.


The interior of the office. In the center - a retractable console with a pair of monitors


The creation of the chassis for the Carmel product has not yet been completed, which is why the current prototypes are based on the modified M113 armored personnel carrier. All of them received new internal equipment of the hull, as well as combat modules with the necessary systems.

The Elbit prototype is based on a serial chassis that has undergone a major revision. The car of a characteristic form carries a lot of external devices, and is also equipped with a new remotely controlled combat module. Its armament consists of an 30-mm automatic gun and machine gun. The fire control system is integrated with communications and includes automated components.

The task of increasing situational awareness has been solved with the help of modern components. A retractable column with surveillance equipment is placed on the tower. The video signal and various additional information are displayed on the screens of the IronVision helmets. Such equipment allows observation in all directions “through the armor”. Measures have been taken to exchange data between surveillance, communications and fire control equipment.


Experienced car from the company "Raphael"


The project from Rafael uses a turret with cannon-machine gun weapons and Spike missiles. Also, the combat module is equipped with advanced surveillance tools. Systems for a similar purpose are installed on the chassis. The control department has a panoramic assembly of several monitors. Dashboards based on LCD screens are also provided. Management is carried out using handles, keypads and touch screens.

Equally equipped is the habitable prototype compartment from the IAI. However, it has some differences in configuration and ergonomics. The most noticeable is the main governing body. The crew is invited to work with a controller such as a gamepad. For data output, a common panoramic screen and a couple of personal ones are used at each workplace.

With all this, the car from IAI differs from other models in the absence of weapons. On the roof of the base armored personnel carrier placed various surveillance equipment and other equipment, but there was no place for the combat module.


Jobs inside Carmel by Rafael


It is alleged that by the time of the first public demonstration, three variants of the Carmel machine had passed part of the tests. For a month, this equipment worked at the training ground and showed the capabilities of its equipment. In the near future, new tests of one kind or another will be conducted.

Near future


Over the next three months, IDF and project developers will conduct new tests of the presented armored vehicles. Then, the specialists of the Ministry of Defense will have to analyze the collected data and establish further ways for the development of the Carmel project. First of all, the fate of the project itself will be determined. In addition, it is necessary to study the prospects of its individual components in the context of the development of other military equipment.

The military must choose the final look of the future combat vehicle and draw up requirements for it. The final version of the Carmel project can be based on one of the current developments. It is also possible the formation of new requirements, offering a combination of different features of the three existing machines. Which of the scenarios will be accepted for implementation is unknown.


Prototype from IAI


In the context of the RAKIA and Carmel projects, a number of new technologies are being developed. Different enterprises are working on a hybrid power plant, a new complex of active protection, advanced electronic systems, etc. Some of these developments were used in the construction of test samples, while others are not yet ready for implementation.

AOI plans to use new technologies not only in the Carmel project. Their application is envisaged for the modernization of various equipment in service. So, until 2022, an updated version will go into the series tank Merkava-4, which will use some of the technologies shown. However, it is not yet specified which particular developments will improve this machine.

New family


The full result of the Carmel project is expected only in the distant future. While it is claimed that such armored vehicles will go into service no earlier than seven years later. Thus, the combatant part of the IDF will receive noticeable quantities of new technology only by the end of the next decade. In addition, by this time they will be able to master the modernized armored vehicles of the existing types.


IAI Development Management Division


From the very beginning, the goal of the Carmel project has been called the creation of a multi-purpose unified platform suitable for the construction of equipment of different classes. At the same time, current prototypes cannot fully show the similar potential of the project.

The family may include a multi-purpose vehicle with missile-cannon weapons, an infantry fighting vehicle with an airborne compartment, carriers of various weapons and special equipment, engineering equipment, etc. All of them will be built on the basis of a single chassis, the development of which has not yet been completed. In addition, they will receive part of the main systems that are now being developed on prototypes.

It is expected that the unification of technology in chassis and electronic systems will provide a number of obvious advantages. The widespread use of advanced electronics will reduce the load on the crew while increasing efficiency, as well as simplify interaction with other vehicles and command. The Carmel family as a whole will have to become a universal and convenient tool for solving a wide range of combat and auxiliary tasks.

However, such results so far relate to the distant future. At the moment, only individual components and systems that are in need of testing and development are ready. For their development, further development of the finished project and all subsequent work on the new machine, it will take several years. The results of the current RAKIA / Carmel program can only be confidently discussed by the end of the twenties.
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Israeli Ministry of Defense
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  1. Dietmar 13 August 2019 18: 26 New
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    Israeli technology is created exclusively for local use. When there is solid ground under the wheels (tracks), almost no one shoots with decent weapons in response, it is also not necessary to mask. They’ll try to let them test such a cart on a tank biathlon, or to drive on Russian off-road. Yes, let it not fall into the sight of an Arab slingshot, but, for example, of a modern anti-tank complex. And then we'll see.
    1. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 18: 43 New
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      Actually, our terrain is worse than the Russian one, and the armaments of the Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad terrorists are far from slingshots, but ATGMs and RPGs (including RPG-29 and Cornet). And the Syrian army still has a lot of weapons, including the most modern.
      1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 18: 56 New
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        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        And the Syrian army still has a lot of weapons, including the most modern.

        Do you really fight with Syria?
        1. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 19: 11 New
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          Yes. Since May 15, 1948, when Syria attacked Israel the day after the proclamation of a Jewish state. Syria violated the last ceasefire on October 6, 1973, after which there were no such agreements.
          1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 19: 41 New
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            No, of course. These are all just legal quotes, what kind of battles have you had with Syria over the past 10 years? Did the shell fly? I’m aware of your bombing, but aggression is not visible from Syria.
            1. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 23: 13 New
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              Syrians are afraid to climb Israel. It is fraught. But shitting on quiet like terrorist support is not shy.
              1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 00: 47 New
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                Well, you can ascribe anything to them in general. They crap quietly, which means not to prove, but the heart feels it.
                Or maybe vice versa, blame everything on the Syrians, and then bomb them factories, factories - for ... for! I do not say anything, but quietly everything can be.
                1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 06: 21 New
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                  And the Syrians do not hide the fact that the headquarters of the Islamic Jihad is located in Damascus. And they do not hide their comprehensive support to any PFLP and Hamas.
                  1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 43 New
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                    Is this Assad himself stated? Or members of the government? You know no worse than me that, despite some great consolidation, fragmentation still persists. I have not seen at least how many official statements about the events that you wrote. By the way, Russia is trying to implement the supply of large systems like S-300 and others so as not to stir up a conflict around them and not act like a red rag.
                    1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 18: 22 New
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                      This is Assad himself, his Minister of Foreign Affairs, his Minister of Defense and a bunch of officials. As in Iran, where once a week they promise to destroy Israel.
                      1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 20: 19 New
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                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        as in Iran, where once a week they promise to destroy Israel.

                        And what is not destroyed? Nuclear weapons, even dirty bombs, would not have been good. But somehow it is not visible serious direction in this direction. Everything is the old fashioned way - statements are being made, well, of Hezbollah, which now does not seem to be particularly active against you.
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        This is Assad himself, his Minister of Foreign Affairs, his Minister of Defense and a bunch of officials.

                        And also the USA, Germany, Great Britain, where are their branches located or what is the correct name?
                      2. Zeev Zeev 15 August 2019 07: 52 New
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                        Why? Because there is an old Arab wisdom: "You can safely spit on Israel. But you have to spit blood"
                      3. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 08: 34 New
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                        Well this topic is slippery. The discussion of this topic is unpleasant for you and you are gaining extra pathos. Do you have terrorist attacks? Those who produce them die? Are their relatives being repressed? Organizers are sometimes destroyed? Well, this is already happening. And for some reason, all the little "old Arab wisdom" composed by you does not care. Do not exaggerate the desire to destroy you at this time.
                      4. Zeev Zeev 15 August 2019 09: 17 New
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                        Relatives are not repressed, organizers are rarely destroyed. And do not compare terrorist organizations with the state,
                      5. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 10: 39 New
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                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        Relatives are not being repressed

                        But how - they demolish houses.
                        Quote: Zeev Zeev
                        And do not compare terrorist organizations with the state,

                        I apologize, your colleague writes to me on this subject, discussing about lucky non-fans, terrorists, and more.
  • Dym71 13 August 2019 19: 57 New
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    Quote: Zeev Zeev
    In fact, we have worse roads than the Russian

    This means that on the tank biathlon, wrap everyone’s tails, it’s up to you to load carrots with crews to the IDF field kitchen. bully
    1. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 23: 27 New
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      Why do we need this circus? Merkava is a battle tank.
      1. Dym71 13 August 2019 23: 49 New
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        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        Why do we need this circus?

        Do i know winked

        Quote: Zeev Zeev
        Merkava is a battle tank.

        So biathlon for MBT fellow
        1. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 23: 56 New
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          Biathlon is a show for the development of patriotism. We have such a biathlon (only a team) once a couple of months in Zeelim
          1. Dym71 14 August 2019 00: 00 New
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            Quote: Zeev Zeev
            Biathlon is a show for the development of patriotism.

            That is, the IDF cook can, but not the tankman? belay
            1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 00: 01 New
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              Of course. The chef will not reveal secrets, and will not reveal tactics
              1. Dym71 14 August 2019 00: 29 New
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                Quote: Zeev Zeev
                Of course. The chef will not reveal secrets, and will not reveal tactics

                So come in a simple, ad-free
                - https://www.vesty.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4970276,00.html
                and no one will know anything, just business! laughing
              2. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 20: 22 New
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                Gentlemen of Israeli nationality share what you have in the army. And then like that, offhand, nothing but hummus or Hamas, as it’s right there and the matzo can’t remember anything. I like hummus even I’m doing it myself, I’ll also collect matzo somehow, but for it, it seems, I need the blood of children, I don’t know where to get it :)
                In general, it is very interesting.
      2. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 45 New
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        And where does the circus not a circus. This is a demonstration of driving performance. Do you also drive tanks in battle?
  • Red_Baron 13 August 2019 18: 47 New
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    Quote: Dietmar
    practically no one shoots with decent weapons in response,

    I would not use such concepts. I strongly doubt that Israel is creating technology exclusively against burro males. They even have retaliation bulldozers armored, so it’s not clear whether this is a bulldozer or a spaceship. Around it is full of neighbors with heavy and powerful equipment and when their cup of patience once again is full it is not known. Moreover, Turkey has created a fairly powerful defense industry. And Israel, she sees, as far as I can judge, solely as a competitor.
    Yes, even barmaleys can have the most modern ATGMs, our colleagues from Ukraine or the USA will accidentally lose them.
    1. gmb
      gmb 13 August 2019 19: 27 New
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      but, for some reason, most of the Soviet or Russian production.
      1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 19: 38 New
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        that is, Ukraine is not often Soviet was? understood, I will know. And about the Russian one, proofs for the presence of modern Russian weapons in terrorist groups are possible?
        1. gmb
          gmb 13 August 2019 19: 52 New
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          Gaza "Cornet"
          1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 20: 37 New
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            And it could not be Dehlaviyeh?
            I strongly doubt that Russia supplies weapons to such organizations, which will then turn against us. Even shipments to Syria are more than sure carefully monitored.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 22: 54 New
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                "It is unclear which Kornet ATGMs are used by Russian-made Gaza terrorists or their Iranian" counterparts. "
                This is from your own link. I asked you about this above. The same Iran releases a copy of Cornet - Dehlaviyeh. This is official. It is quite possible that similar complexes are still being produced. Given that in your links there are references to broken rockets - of poor quality.
                Given that there are non-working ones, it is possible to determine from them what kind of rocket was used and all the data on it can be.
                Only there are still nuances. What I wrote above. If the Russian Cornets go hand in hand, of them would attack the Russian military as well. It’s just by your logic that it’s normal that the Syrian army transfers these complexes to the opponents of Israel, although the Syrian army itself is not at war. But to transfer parts of the Syrian army, which is then fought against, then later for, where it is full of brothers, friends on one and the other side can not. Although this would be more obvious and the Cornets would appear in the IG (banned in Russia) and their derivatives.
                I understand that there is no truth here. No one will present documentary evidence of the same unexploded Cornet, as well as investigations where it is established that the bus blew up just such. And consequently there will be 2 not confirmed points of view.
                For you, newspaper notes or wikis are for some reason proof.
                1. Professor 14 August 2019 09: 27 New
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                  Quote: Red_Baron
                  I understand that there is no truth here. No one will present documentary evidence of the same unexploded Cornet, as well as investigations where it is established that the bus blew up just such. And consequently there will be 2 not confirmed points of view.

                  There were photos and evidence. Let's go in the second round?

                  PS
                  The Syrian army for Dalars will sell not only the Cornets, but also ...
                  1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 51 New
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                    Quote: Professor
                    There were photos and evidence. Let's go in the second round?

                    I did not participate in that discussion, so I don’t know. Yes, even if my knowledge were involved, it would not be enough to determine something. So leave it with your permission.
                    Quote: Professor
                    PS
                    The Syrian army for Dalars will sell not only the Cornets, but also ...

                    In order to sell something for dollars, these dollars must be with the one who buys them. They themselves did not print them.
        2. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 23: 14 New
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          Is "Cornets", RPG-29, ASVK, AK-103 Hamas not enough?
          1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 00: 59 New
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            Listen, I don’t support it at all. But as I understand it, you blame Russia for deliveries, without any justification. About Cornets, I wrote above. In the Middle East, copies of them are issued and constant statements that it is the Cornets are simply propaganda. Weapons are being brought from faraway Russia, and, as far as I understand, what you described is relatively small. But local production can not fall into the hands of local people. I am starting to believe that Trump we really have chosen. I understand that on my part it looks like an excuse. But on your part, it looks like attributing anything to us. As your colleagues say, "very likely."
            1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 05: 53 New
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              Russia supplies Syria and Iran, they supply terrorist organizations controlled by them. And these are precisely Russian complexes and weapons.
              1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 28 New
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                Quote: Zeev Zeev
                Russia supplies Syria and Iran,

                Each weapon has its own serial number. On it you can track his fate.
                Quote: Zeev Zeev
                they supply terrorist organizations controlled by them

                But the allies and Russia gathered there because of terrorist organizations of a different kind, which, incidentally, Israel does not particularly touch.
                And it’s not a secret at all about the purchase of weapons for them from countries of eastern Europe. By the way, with deliveries, including through Ukraine.
                Quote: Zeev Zeev
                And these are precisely Russian complexes and weapons.

                At least one investigation with a photo on the Cornet. Not statements in the media and other accusations, but something more serious, since you talk about it with such confidence.
                1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 17: 35 New
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                  https://topwar.ru/16600-iranskie-kornety.html
                  1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 19: 54 New
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                    So everything is written on the same link. 13 years ago yours discovered boxes from Cornets, ours stated that this should not be the case under the contract. But after the investigation, they recognized that ours. Were the installations themselves there and how many were not written. Ours promised to thoroughly check where they are going. Since then, 2-3 cases of shelling by the Cornets over 13 years have been described both on the wiki and in the media. And it is specified that the Cornets were not indicated were ours or Iranian.
            2. 3danimal 14 August 2019 14: 38 New
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              IMHO, Russia needs to stop supporting the “allies” (right? Look at their behavior after the 6-day War and the Doomsday War) of the USSR, in BV, in particular. After all, the goals to break up to ruin the cap. the country "in the name of the victory of world communism" is no longer there, as I understand it?
              Do not be friends with crooks and criminals (and losers, concurrently).
              Hint: if your child needs a complicated operation abroad, you are obviously not taking him to Iran or Syria.
              1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 23 New
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                This is all nationalism, in the spirit of enough to feed the Caucasus. We already went through this at home and were convinced of the stupidity and depravity of such mottos.
                Quote: 3danimal
                Hint: if your child needs a complicated operation abroad, you are obviously not taking him to Iran or Syria.

                And let's help Iran and Syria become at least at the level of Turkey. The potential of Iran is no less. And then if something will be taken for treatment or rest, or something else there.
                1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 08: 16 New
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                  To help the problematic in the aggressive, which will, thanks to this help, succeed in spoiling the life of a successful and useful one.
                  You probably think that we have too much money. View your budget by country. And also the share of imports in the Russian economy.
                  1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 08: 46 New
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                    Quote: 3danimal
                    To help the problematic in the aggressive, which will, thanks to this help, succeed in spoiling the life of a successful and useful one.

                    Here again, Nazi notes - one useful, and the other ... apparently. Not so long ago they didn’t find you useful in some places. And now, in exactly the same way, in all seriousness, you are reasoning in relation to others. So how do you differ from those who once thought you were?
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    You probably think that we have too much money. View your budget by country. And also the share of imports in the Russian economy.

                    And where are you. This is an international matter. I am surprised that I should tell you some things, and not vice versa.
                    A few months ago, your nationality colleague told me about the Golan Heights. About the Druze and Syrians living there. That those who wanted to leave, and someone looked at how they live around, stayed and with both hands voted for the fact that this is Israeli territory.
                    This is a common truth. If people are taught, explained, given the opportunity to work and live normally, it becomes "there is something to lose." A person with a good education, with common values, having a normal life will not go to lose everything and break this life just like that. And about the Arabs, not the Arabs. You know better than me that your nationalities are not determined by race or nationality. And often in general religious.
              2. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 30 New
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                Quote: 3danimal
                Do not be friends with crooks and criminals (and losers, concurrently).

                Sorry, but Syria, Persia have existed in one form or another for thousands of years. Just like Palestine. Why do you decide who is who and who to be who?
                1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 17: 41 New
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                  Syria has existed since 1946. There was never a state called Palestine.
                  1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 20: 02 New
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                    Quote: Red_Baron
                    exist in one form or another for thousands of years

                    Before Syria, those places were not empty either. And Damascus is so generally known for devils when BC. But about Palestine it's a shame. when you wanted to have your own state, and everyone was against you, you didn’t like it. When the Arabs wanted to have their own state in part of Palestine, it did not seem to you something similar.
                    Something like North America is no longer the main Indians.
                    1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 08: 23 New
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                      I doubt that the "leadership" of the Palestinians (and Hamas) wants a peaceful existence. They formed in their current form, the transition to peace and productive activities will change the sphere of influence and will displace the current leaders, which they resist.
                      And what about the installation of “dumping the Israelites into the sea” ??
                    2. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 08: 52 New
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                      Quote: 3danimal
                      I doubt that the "leadership" of the Palestinians (and Hamas) wants a peaceful existence. They formed in their current form, the transition to peace and productive activities will change the sphere of influence and will displace the current leaders, which they resist.

                      Naturally. And what doubts can there be? And not only you have such problems. So what? By the way, I’m not sure that an agreement with Iran is the biggest problem. In addition to it, there are the largest money bags of Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which are sponsored by a large number of different groups - they are much less needed to change the current order. Even if they don’t go directly to Israel.
                      Quote: 3danimal
                      And what about the installation of “dumping the Israelites into the sea” ??

                      Swim and back, the same problem to me.
              3. 3danimal 15 August 2019 08: 18 New
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                Let them be who they want. But to be friends, wasting money on criminals and losers (also vile, as the history of the second half of the 20th century shows) is not worth it.
                1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 08: 57 New
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                  Ahh, I get it. Luckiness is when everything that is developed, mined and received was paid for by the United States, so that one small country would be a faithful outpost and a zone of influence on other countries?
                  And what would it be about the sea and other things, if luck also smiled at another country?
                  You know there is such a brilliant film Kin-dza-dza. So there they describe a similar approach. That luck would smile and then spit on everyone and everyone did Ku.
        3. Graz 14 August 2019 02: 15 New
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          Zeev Zeev
          who would say that your ammunition, food and medicine were discovered in Syria by Russian and Syrian military personnel in storage volumes on the territory recaptured from ISIS, plus it was proved that ISIS terrorists were treated in Israel
          1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 05: 55 New
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            Can we give an example of our ammunition, food and medicine in storage volumes?
        4. The comment was deleted.
          1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 10: 57 New
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            In fact, in 2006, in Lebanon, Hezbollah terrorists seized the Cornets in their original packaging. The Kremlin at first said “Ichtnet”, then the case was hushed up.
            1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 21: 53 New
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              Sorry, but this is not entirely true. You yourself personally gave a link to an article on the same VO where it says a little different.
              On the left positions, boxes from the Cornets were discovered whether the Cornets themselves were there and their number was not written. Ours stated that under the agreement the Syrians could not transfer them anywhere. But then after the investigation, Vladimir Vladimirovich himself said that it’s ours, work will be done and new agreements will be signed on inspection of warehouses with delivered weapons at any time. Since then, for 13 years! there were only 2-3 cases of shelling from the Cornets of Israel. According to the wiki and the media. Moreover, it is written that it was not known whether they were Russian Cornets or Iranian.
              Your distortion of information is simply a great desire to scold and try to humiliate Russia.
              1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 22: 55 New
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                According to the Arabs, this is the Cornet. Would Iranian missiles be called another name to show support for Iran.
  • Bogatyrev 13 August 2019 20: 30 New
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    All the same, one must understand that similar systems and principles will be widely used.
    So far, only questions of price, quality of resolution of electronics and vulnerability of monopanels of screens arise.
    But still, within their OODA concept, such systems dramatically increase efficiency. And so sooner or later they will be distributed and set a new standard.
  • Rwmos 13 August 2019 18: 32 New
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    As one journalist rightly remarked,
    How long will this tricked thing live against a similarly equipped unit? Not even at all, but relatively technologically unambiguously inferior to it of modern mass armored vehicles? How many times longer, how much does it surpass them in money? Very unlikely

    So the concept is not intended. In fact, the existence of such a BBM causes economic damage not to the enemy of 3, but to its defense ministry ...
    1. 3danimal 14 August 2019 14: 44 New
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      In this technique, crews will suffer less loss. And do not die from breaking in bulk when undermining the BC.
      Not everywhere is so much ... an inexpensive human resource.
      1. Rwmos 14 August 2019 15: 07 New
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        not a fact far. Defense - not at tank level
      2. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 21: 55 New
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        But do not tell me where, you hinted, a lot of inexpensive human resources?
        1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 08: 42 New
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          Many where, in particular, in Russia.
          1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 08: 59 New
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            To argue in this vein is pure Nazism and bestiality.
            1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 09: 16 New
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              True, many do not like it at all.
              The history of recent conflicts speaks about this: attitude to losses, the amount of compensation in comparison with developed countries (delays and unwillingness to pay them in general).
              Words about are cheap if not backed up by action.
              1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 09: 41 New
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                But there is no truth. There is Nazism.
                Quote: 3danimal
                The history of recent conflicts speaks about this: attitude to losses, the amount of compensation in comparison with developed countries (delays and unwillingness to pay them in general).

                Are there any developed ones besides your country?
                The attitude to losses is the most sensitive. Not always enough experience and it's a pity. But every person counts, every hero in the country and the attitude is appropriate.
                Regarding payments and compensations - do not lie about reluctance. And everything else is the imperfection of the legislation in the first place.
                And tell me, is it one such or similarly brainwashing to everyone? I'm just starting to understand why neighboring countries do not like you.
                1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 10: 17 New
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                  I was born and live in Russia))
                  And I know people who were forbidden to talk about the death of their son, threatening to deprive of compensation.
                  1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 10: 41 New
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                    Quote: 3danimal
                    I was born and live in Russia))

                    Then why do you reason on behalf of Israel?
                    Quote: 3danimal
                    And I know people who were forbidden to talk about the death of their son, threatening to deprive of compensation.

                    What years are you talking about?
                    1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 12: 38 New
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                      It's about the last 5 years.
                    2. 3danimal 15 August 2019 12: 38 New
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                      I can put myself in the place of another.
                      Israel behaved wiser and more courageously in past conflicts. In contrast to the scoundrels and cowards of his opponents - Syria and Egypt (having miserably lost the 6-day war, they blamed this on bad weapons delivered from the USSR).
                      To be friends (especially in international affairs) is necessary with “athletes and excellent students”. Shpana from the gateway is not an option.
                2. 3danimal 15 August 2019 10: 21 New
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                  “Nazism,” or, rather, an echo of the class society, can be called a similar attitude towards their people. Obviously, for decision makers, they are not entirely their own.
                  You can recall the Pskov paratroopers in Chechnya.
                  In general, this looks like demagoguery on your part: an attempt to label a foreign opinion without bothering yourself with arguments.
                  1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 10: 43 New
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                    Quote: 3danimal
                    In general, this looks like demagoguery on your part: an attempt to label a foreign opinion without bothering yourself with arguments.

                    Above, I described in detail even with examples my opinion. And this is not my opinion, this is a definition. You can look in the dictionary what Nazism is.
                    1. 3danimal 15 August 2019 12: 44 New
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                      It is funny that the maximum that you have found to object to my statement about the value of a person in the Russian Federation is “excesses on the ground” and “individual flaws”.
                      1. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 14: 31 New
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                        The funny thing is that here you continue to lie. A person’s value is not measured either by insurance for it, or by any other monetary factors. What you write about insurance is primarily a marketing ploy. I did not find a single fact on your part or confirmation of words, just a repetition of old tales, which were written by the way by order of your hosts from abroad.
                      2. 3danimal 15 August 2019 19: 01 New
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                        So do I have a host? But I didn’t know. And why is silent and does not pay money? Bad owner;)
                        It is precisely you who are voicing the cliché agitation.
                        I see the flaws and talk about them. I have the right.
                      3. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 19: 20 New
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                        it's funny that you remembered about the cliche. You talk with them almost all the time. Accepting someone else's propaganda for the truth, you become an apologist for this doctrine. There’s nothing to pay you for. You are happy to try without them. Do not write about flaws. You just substitute concepts and refer to that somewhere somewhere where sometimes. And the rest must either trust you or how honest people allow the probability that you use it. This is no doubt a convenient position, but it is dishonest. Have you heard about such a word? ;)
                      4. 3danimal 15 August 2019 19: 43 New
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                        So you have plenty of cliches.
                        And no sane arguments with regards to special humanism with us.
                        So, excuses about the flaws in the field.
                  2. 3danimal 15 August 2019 19: 03 New
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                    Then you bring the facts of special care for people, both civilian and military.
                  3. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 19: 25 New
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                    This is a bad game, because it is impossible to win. Well, I'm not as naive as you demonstrate. All my life from the beginning of the 2000s shows the difference with the 90s, but I perfectly remember both this and that. Unlike some, I have a conscience and I can appreciate and be thankful for that.
                    Whatever fact I bring, you will simply underestimate it.
                    What you are trying to show is not the philosophy of a winner or a "lucky one." I already wrote about the film Kin-dza-dza. Where she is perfectly shown. While you're in luck, sit and spit down. A similar philosophy is not close to me.
                  4. 3danimal 15 August 2019 19: 44 New
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                    I did not mention the 90s and did not suggest comparing periods. And then you can go to serfdom.
                  5. 3danimal 17 August 2019 19: 59 New
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                    About the "lucky" and "loser."
                    Speaking of Egypt and Syria, I still used the term "vile".
              2. 3danimal 15 August 2019 19: 39 New
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                And the value of life, of course, is measured by the leadership’s willingness to “spend” them. Saving technical and financial resources.
          2. 3danimal 15 August 2019 12: 45 New
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            The simplest option, in my opinion, to force care about the survival of soldiers is life insurance for everyone worth about 30 million (by analogy with the United States).
            Let even greed motivate fathers-commanders and other higher ones.
  • Operator 13 August 2019 18: 32 New
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    The interior of the office. In the center - a retractable console with a pair of monitors

    Complete squalor and mockery of common sense.
  • Chaldon48 13 August 2019 18: 43 New
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    In the distant future, new technologies and new problems will appear.
  • Red_Baron 13 August 2019 18: 44 New
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    To be honest, I did not understand anything. Perhaps in my case this is not surprising, but
    From the very beginning, the goal of the Carmel project has been called the creation of a multi-purpose unified platform suitable for the construction of equipment of different classes.

    And the next line
    At the same time, current prototypes cannot fully show the similar potential of the project.

    And why are they even created then? I understand the objections in terms of trying out the various nodes that will be used in the project. But we read a little higher.
    Then the specialists of the Ministry of Defense will have to analyze the collected data and establish further ways for the development of the Carmel project. First of all, the fate of the project itself will be determined.

    That is, in fact, in general there are no tasks and project criteria.
    I am a completely wild person, but I understand the simple conditions. For example, a program aimed at creating a reservation for infantry fighting vehicles, which can withstand defeat from modern tanks, but with less weight. Common enough words? Yes, create what you want but with this focus. Well and the like.
    Here is the Prototype from IAI, it’s essentially m113. A prototype from Rafael, too.
    “The jobs inside Rafael’s Carmel are simply gorgeous, but possibly dangerous, so are the Arabs experiencing them?”
    In general, there is some kind of confusion in the head of the article, and this is not a rebuke to the author, as I understand it, he just brought the published data and possibly the confusion in the program itself, or because of insufficient data it seems.
    1. AUL
      AUL 13 August 2019 20: 32 New
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      Yes, it's simple. It is said that there is as yet no specific medium; work on it has not yet been completed. What is being described is estimates of the filling for this promising medium, refinement of the concept and technical solutions. And then the selected option will be entered into a specific chassis.
  • andrewkor 13 August 2019 18: 47 New
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    After 20 years, either the donkey will die, or the padish, or ... God's chosen people!
    1. Orakul2000 13 August 2019 19: 44 New
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      Here you are personally and we just like you will survive.
      Do you know there is a good, many hundreds of years of life among people like you practice !!!
    2. Makallan 13 August 2019 20: 23 New
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      we are Russian god with us are you to yourself?
      1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 20: 39 New
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        Well, I'm Russian and God is with us. And how should this humiliate me?
    3. 3danimal 14 August 2019 15: 29 New
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      How difficult it is, sometimes I see, to get rid of the entrenched anti-Semitism.
      A bit of self-work, sanity and critical thinking - and everything will work out)
      1. dumkopff 14 August 2019 18: 12 New
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        It’s a shame to admit, I always considered anti-Semitism, as well as other cases when people are judged on a herd basis, disgusting. However, the observation of some Russian-speaking Jews makes me more and more an anti-Semite (see, for example, the domestic liberda: Bykov, Hesse, Schatz, Roizman, Gozman, Albats, Eidman, etc., etc. All these descendants of commissars, fiery communists and party nomenclature).
        A local example: Russian-speaking Israelis, as I see here, love to prove what kind of Israel is all the same. And do not mind kicking Russia, that we have everything through w ... (at least some specimens come across). Any criticism of Israel is oh-wow! If the Russians dare to prove that they are at least no worse, they will pour Mr. Ush’s tub and make fun of them.
        And from ex-compatriots, some even believe that Russia should support Israel (at least giving up its interests in Syria and the Middle East). The statements of the Israelis that Israel should support Russia, strangely enough, I have not met.
        However. Israel is a country as a country. Jews are a people as a people. Separate noisy and stupid representatives all have. Only some of them really hurt ... Loud or something.
        1. 3danimal 17 August 2019 20: 03 New
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          The people listed by surname are the descendants of the commissars and party nomenclature ?? Proofs, of course, with you?
          1. 3danimal 17 August 2019 20: 07 New
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            I am Russian by nationality and I think that Israel should support Israel in the Middle East of the Russian Federation. If you really decided to get in there.
            Mutually beneficial military, scientific, medical programs.
            And not an empty injection of money in the sand.
            1. dumkopff 20 August 2019 15: 34 New
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              Generally speaking, we all went into a deep offtopic. Therefore, I translate in PM.
            2. VladGTN 24 August 2019 23: 54 New
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              What is tsimes?
        2. 3danimal 17 August 2019 20: 10 New
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          And re-read the comment I answered:
          “After 20 years, either the donkey will die, or the padishah, or ... God's chosen people!”
        3. VladGTN 24 August 2019 23: 55 New
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          I subscribe. All right
          1. 3danimal 25 August 2019 05: 14 New
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            Given the difficult history and struggle from the beginning, I am sure the Israelis will cope. And over 20 years they will continue to develop, and regions controlled by fanatics will continue to degrade /
      2. Kote Pan Kokhanka 14 August 2019 21: 27 New
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        Quote: 3danimal
        How difficult it is, sometimes I see, to get rid of the entrenched anti-Semitism.
        A bit of self-work, sanity and critical thinking - and everything will work out)

        Hmm, ..... always clutching with the Red Baron, but today, apart from "we see a speck in the neighbor’s eye, we don’t see a log in our own eyes," I can’t say respect you! Maybe besides cliches, indiscriminate accusations of anti-Semitism, we’ll show something? Well, either proof of who is what kind of person, and who is kind of !!! Tired of Demogogy!
        1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 22: 22 New
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          Personally, I have a positive attitude towards Israel and the Jews. But to the Jewish women in general, well, at least to my friends. I like a lot in their way, although I understand that not everything is applicable here.
          And in the pages of VO I do not support anti-Semitism. But it is impossible to deny a certain biased attitude, and sometimes even anger towards the Russians. I personally today several times tried to explain that there can be at least two parties to the opinion. And if there is no direct evidence, then neither side can be true. But one is against Russia, which means the truth? Well and so on. Gentlemen, a little disgusting as it turns out.
          Especially since we are all colleagues of interest here.
    4. Red_Baron 15 August 2019 19: 28 New
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      You know, in such expressions I always felt sorry for the donkey. I read and was surprised how useful and hardy animals are, it is a pity that it is almost impossible to use them in our latitudes. And you will die right away. And let the peoples all be, who knows when what kind of flower is needed.
      -
      could not resist.
  • Sergey39 13 August 2019 18: 57 New
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    real prototypes can not be compared with the alleged appearance of “Caramel” in the final configuration.
  • Clueless 13 August 2019 19: 23 New
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    Quote: Zeev Zeev
    In fact, we have worse roads than the Russian

    Already the "living" touched :) And can you link to swamps, tundra, snow, large coniferous forests with a road from forestry equipment, many large and deep rivers in Israel, which is smaller than my area?
    1. surfdude 13 August 2019 19: 42 New
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      Dear, in Israel there are no marshes, tundra, it’s pretty decent to ride in the snow on Hermon, there are no large coniferous forests and they don’t harvest the forest, but they buy, there are many rivers in season, especially in the desert. And yes, the state is small, 470 km long, and climatic zones from three to twelve, depending on how you count. ;)
    2. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 19: 42 New
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      I understand that the main off-road in the Syrian Golan.
      1. Professor 13 August 2019 20: 15 New
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        Quote: Red_Baron
        I understand that the main off-road in the Syrian Golan.

        The main off-road is Lebanon. More precisely, the famous Lebanese mud.
        1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 20: 25 New
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          So they are next to each other.
          Is Israel planning any serious military operations there?
          1. Professor 14 August 2019 09: 24 New
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            Quote: Red_Baron
            So they are next to each other.
            Is Israel planning any serious military operations there?

            Israel does not plan to use tanks on its territory and therefore it does not matter what kind of soil we have. It is important what kind of soil our neighbors have.
            1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 17: 47 New
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              Quote: Professor
              It is important what kind of soil our neighbors have.

              Yes, the same as yours approximately. :) The region is like that.
    3. Orakul2000 13 August 2019 20: 07 New
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      Dear, my compatriot bent quite a bit, but quite a bit!




      1. Orakul2000 13 August 2019 20: 07 New
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        Continued ....



        1. Red_Baron 13 August 2019 20: 28 New
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          The pictures are very convincing, but you yourself understand.
          1. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 23: 24 New
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            We understand. Where “Hammers” and REO get stuck, “Merkava” is going quite well. By the way, the specific pressure of the Merkava is lower than that of the T-90A.
            1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 00: 51 New
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              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              By the way, the specific pressure of the Merkava is lower than that of the T-90A.

              belay
              t-90a - 0,97 kg / cm2
              Merkava 4m (about 70 tons of fluff) - 1,12 kg / cm2
            2. kapitan92 14 August 2019 01: 00 New
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              Quote: Zeev Zeev
              We understand. Where “Hammers” and REO get stuck, “Merkava” is going quite well. By the way, the specific pressure of the Merkava is lower than that of the T-90A.

              T 90 beats. 0,85 kg / sq. cm, "Merkava" 0,9 kg / sq. cm. hi
              1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 06: 19 New
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                In addition to the "Merkava" 4 there is also a "Merkava" 3, and in addition to the T-90S, there is the T-90A.
                1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 22: 35 New
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                  I repeat.
                  t-90a - 0,97 kg / cm2
                  Merkava 4m (about 70 tons of fluff) - 1,12 kg / cm2
                  Quote: Zeev Zeev
                  In addition to “Merkava” 4 there is also “Merkava” 3

                  Aren't they both 65 tons each?
      2. Krasnodar 13 August 2019 23: 10 New
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        Lebanese mud is an idiom, and for the Israelis it’s politico-military, meaning a place where you can get stuck - not here and there. I mean the following - it's easy to go in, then you get bogged down. Applied to the entry of troops into this country to solve security problems, it is by no means climatic conditions, although there is also enough real dirt there during the rains.
    4. Zeev Zeev 13 August 2019 23: 21 New
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      Swamps - Yardenit, Jordan behind the dam, Nahal Alexander. Snow - Hermon, Judea, Golan, Upper Galilee (by the way, snow is easy for tracked vehicles), instead of the tundra with permafrost and rivulets, we have Negev, which after the slightest rain turns into a piece of land with liquid mud and roaring streams.
      1. Clueless 14 August 2019 15: 51 New
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        Lord, compare this dirt with dirt in Russia, where sometimes VITYAZI (DT-30 and others) get stuck, well, that’s a little wrong, honestly :) You drove a couple of kilometers there and again it’s dry, but in Siberia you’re more than one hundred kilometers you will go in the "direction", where the wolves are afraid to go :)))
        1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 16: 21 New
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          After you stomp along this “couple of kilometers” with a machine gun the whole night, shaking off a kilogram of dirt from your boots every quarter of an hour, you begin to understand that Belarusian swamps are not so scary.
          1. Red_Baron 14 August 2019 22: 37 New
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            Quote: Zeev Zeev
            you begin to understand that Belarusian swamps are not so scary.

            Seriously? After all, the dimensions are comparable ....
            1. Zeev Zeev 14 August 2019 22: 52 New
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              I speak from experience. And in this case, the size does not matter