Mannerheim - an ambiguous figure in history

The figure of this person known to the whole world still causes a mixed reaction in society.

Swedish nobleman, he swore allegiance to the Russian emperor, showing himself in the Russian service as a talented commander. After the revolution, when the Bolsheviks hated by him appeared in power, he made a fateful decision for him to return to his native Finland, becoming the head of the Finnish army. Having cut off all ties with Bolshevik Russia, he became a sworn enemy of Soviet power. Many times his life hung in the balance, but each time fortune was on his side.

He was a spy, whom the secret services hunted, he was a smart politician, whom the leaders of the great powers reckoned with. It is no coincidence that such famous personalities as Roosevelt and Stalin, Churchill and Hitler considered him the greatest man of the 20 of the century. A separate question: who thought so?

At the end of his life, he became president of Finland. Once an ally of Nazi Germany, Mannerheim did not end up under the tribunal.

This film is about a participant in four wars, a scout and author of the famous alcoholic recipe, Karl Gustav Mannerheim, who entered history and the figure of which causes debate and fierce debate both among historians and among ordinary people, with history at least a little familiar.

Comments

[svp67]

Mannerheim crossed out all his merits, at least for me, becoming a Russophobe. Otherwise, how can one not explain that he did nothing to stop the direct destruction of the Russian people who, by the will of fate, ended up in the territory of the Principality of Finland after the 1917 revolutions of the year.

[Basil50]

sergey
Not only is the enemy of the Nazis an enemy for you, he is an enemy for all PEOPLE.
Manerheim behaved towards RUSSIAN PEOPLE in full accordance with the attitude towards RUSSIAN people by the majority of the nobility and other officials in the RUSSIAN EMPIRE.
Today they are trying to write enthusiastically and in superlatives about the king and his * service people *. But the attitude was exactly the same as the attitude of the Nazis.
Imported nobles swore allegiance to the Holstein-Gottorp dynasty, which managed to establish itself as kings, but the population of RUSSIA was perceived as slaves in the colonies. It’s like in India, where there were both their maharajas and their warriors and many slaves, which they own ........

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: svp67

Otherwise, how can one not explain that he did nothing to stop the direct destruction of the Russian people who, by the will of fate, ended up in the territory of the Principality of Finland after the 1917 revolutions of the year.

That is, Mannerheim was soiled in the blood of our people as early as 1918-1919, while there were many representatives of the white movement, and not just the red ones. The blockade of Leningrad was already much later

[Sunstorm]

Quote: Stirbjorn

That's it, Mannerheim was soiled in the blood of our people back in 1918-1919,

And which of the workers of the UNION did not get their hands dirty with our blood? Or is the blood of "whites" not as red for you as that of "red"? I'm afraid biology will disagree with you.

[Greg Miller]

For you, for me and for all normal Russian people, Mannerheim is a traitor, a criminal and scum. But for those who rule today in Russia, Mannerheim is a hero ...

[tihonmarine]

Quote: svp67

Otherwise, how can one not explain that he did nothing to stop the direct destruction of the Russian people who, by the will of fate, ended up in the territory of the Principality of Finland after the 1917 revolutions of the year.

Russian people were not destroyed there, with the exception of the Red Guards. I have many friends living in Finland whose ancestors settled there after 1917. Especially the sailors from the "Sea Mine-Sweeping Forces" and did not terrorize anyone in Finland, but on the contrary fled to Suomi from Russia, unlike ....

[evgic]

For example, the massacre in Vyborg is not familiar to you?

[Stirbjorn]

Quote: tihonmarine

Russian people were not destroyed there, with the exception of the Red Guards. I have many friends living in Finland whose ancestors settled there after 1917. Especially the sailors from the "Sea Mine-Sweeping Forces" and did not terrorize anyone in Finland, but on the contrary fled to Suomi from Russia, unlike ....

Enough to hang on your ears! Emigrants settled in France, in Yugoslavia, in Spain, even in Manchuzhiri, but about Finland, besides your "acquaintances", something was not heard ... there is such an event in history as the "Vyborg massacre", please educate yourself
https://topwar.ru/143115-vyborg-finskiy-nankin-istoriya-odnoy-rezni.html

[tihonmarine]

Thank you for your answer, of course, and I know about the "Vyborg massacre" since childhood, because my maternal aunt lived, communicated with the people.

[shura7782]

Vlad, I have a different story. I know from relatives' stories that my great-grandfather (participant of the Tsushima battle) and great-grandmother with children abandoned everything and without things fled from there.

[lelik613]

Not for us. Chikatilo, too, until a certain time was "ambiguous", and "provoked discussions."

[Dmitry Potapov]

Judging by the form that he has on his unambiguous place in the list of war criminals with a stamp "without a statute of limitations" at least for our country, and articles are devoted to him and signs are hung up.

[bober1982]

Quote: Dmitry Potapov

Judging by the form on which it has its unequivocal place in the list of war criminals

Stalin struck Mannerheim from the list of war criminals, with his own hand.

[atos_kin]

Quote: bober1982

with your own hand.

Sorry, he had no other hands for you. There were only legs.

[bober1982]

I didn’t understand anything. Yesterday we celebrated Air Force Day?

[atos_kin]

No offense. I explain that the addition "with your own hand" is unnecessary, because Comrade Stalin did not use "someone else's" hands. And my Air Force day is August 18th.

[bober1982]

Quote: atos_kin

And my Air Force day is August 18th.

My too.

[evgic]

Crossed out the truth. With this stroke, he led 400 thousand Finnish soldiers out of the war, received bases for the fleet in Finnish, and saved the lives of tens of thousands of our soldiers. For one offender, the price is acceptable.

[Amateur]

"The plaque to the executioner of Russians Mannerheim in St. Petersburg is an insult to the memory of the fallen soldiers and residents of Leningrad!", "He was Hitler's accomplice and helped in maintaining the blockade of Leningrad from the north-west. To install a memorial plaque for him in this city is a mockery of hundreds of thousands of dead blockades! " - similar statements rained down in the media and in social networks.

In the most cultured St. Petersburg, the memorial plaque quietly hung for 3 days. Then they doused it with paint, drilled it, etc., until they got it removed.
So in Russia this is a figure with an unambiguous reputation - the executioner and the fascist.
And Messrs. Ivanov and Medynsky, who hung the memorial plaque, would have to resign from all posts.

[Barmaleyka]

Mannerheim - an ambiguous figure in history

what's next !!!
Vlasov - "an ambiguous figure in history"?
with Mannerheim EVERYTHING EXPRESSLY UNIQUE - Hitler's Companion

[Cruorvult]

The author of the campaign is not Russian, since he writes "The figure of this world-famous person still evokes an ambiguous reaction in society."

[tihonmarine]

Gustav Mannerheim was and until the end of his life remained a Russian officer and general.

[Stirbjorn]

It was no accident that he was considered the greatest man of the 20th century by such famous personalities as Roosevelt and Stalin, Churchill and Hitler.

The greatest ?! What nonsense ?! They could consider and consider each other as such, and not the leader of little Finland. What such a significant role in the history of the 20th century could Mannerheim play to be called the greatest, even for a whole century ?! If only in Finland itself, but where then the leaders of world powers?

[bober1982]

Quote: Stirbjorn

What such a significant role in the history of the 20th century could Mannerheim play to be called the greatest, even for a whole century ?!

At first, Mannerheim was an accomplice of Hitler, and then Hitler himself became an accomplice of Mannerheim.

[abrakadabre]

Mannerheim - an ambiguous figure in history

For whom? For normal people, this is a completely unambiguous figure - a war criminal.

[Ryazan87]

For whom? For normal people, this is a completely unique figure

Think close))

[tihonmarine]

In the 1825 year, Karl Eric Mannerheim (1759 — 1837), the great-grandfather of Gustav Mannerheim, was elevated to the rank of count, after which the eldest son in the family became a count, and the younger brothers of the eldest member of the family name (to which Gustav Mannerheim belonged), as well as representatives the younger genealogical branches remained barons.

He was a Russian nobleman, but not Swedish, like his ancestors.

[bubalik]

,,, how many black cats are not mine, there will be no whiter.
1944 already decided everything and figured it out.

Order No. 132, signed by the Commander-in-Chief of the 8 on July 1941, the day before the Finnish troops — the Karelian army launched an offensive in the direction north of Lake Ladoga. Paragraph four of the orders said: “The Russian population should be detained and sent to concentration camps”

N.I. Baryshnikov in the book “Five myths in the military history of Finland 1940 — 1944” (Baryshnikov Nikolai Ivanovich, Soviet, Russian military historian. Doctor of historical sciences, professor, colonel. Member of the Great Patriotic War.)

In the collection of documents “Monstrous atrocities of Finnish-fascist invaders in the territory of the Karelian-Finnish SSR” (State Publishing House of the Karelian-Finnish SSR, 1945), the Extraordinary State Commission said that by the end of 1941, there were about 20 thousand people in Finnish concentration camps, in the vast majority are Russians. At the beginning of April of 1942, there were already 24 thousand people - about 27% of the total population in the Finnish occupation zone. Concentration camps were created for the Russian population in the villages of Vidlitsa, Ilyinskoye, Kavgozero, Pogrankondushi, Paalu and Uslanka, as well as six concentration camps in Petrozavodsk.
In total, 14 concentration camps were created for the civilian population. According to the Karelian historian K.A. Morozov, as a result of hard forced labor, poor nutrition, hunger, epidemics and shootings in the camps, over 14 thousand Soviet people died, that is, every fifth remaining in the occupation. Their only fault was that they were non-Finns and did not belong to the group of “heimokansalainen” (“tribesmen,” that is, Karelians, Vepsians, and Izhors). In relation to the "guilty" torture and executions were used. These statistics do not include data on prisoner of war camps, the first of which began to be created back in June 1941.

Photo of the military commander Galina Sanko in the liberated Petrozavodsk in June 1944, which was presented at the Nuremberg trials.

Pravda newspaper, August 18, 1944

[Pushkar]

An unequivocal person is Hitler's ally and the worst enemy of Russia and its people.

[aleksandaravin]

Nothing new! Swedish Father of the Finnish Nation! See Pakistan - Genie! But the Cleverest Man! And I didn’t sit down! And the rest - Quisling, Vlasov, Salashi, but Duce himself! Perhaps only Generalissimo Francisco Franco compares!

[_TANKIST_]

The next attempt of our TV to whiten Manerheim, or to test the soil of the relationship of people, pah, you’re annoying, I would have been imprisoned for such attempts for 15 days. And scum who put on a fascist / Nazi uniform or produce similar vidosiks would have shot at the place.

[grumbler]

with Mannerheim EVERYTHING EXPRESSLY UNIQUE - Hitler's Companion

I perfectly understand those whose grandfathers-great-grandfathers died in the Karelian-Finnish snows and died in Finnish concentration camps, in the Blockade. Yes, the Finnish troops fought brutally in the "Finnish" one. Finnish troops took part in battles and crimes against the population in Soviet Karelia. In the blockade of Leningrad. The Finns mined the Baltic, from which our ships were locked, and our submarines were killed when trying to break through. This is all true. This is enough for someone to decide who Mannerheim was, I understand.

And, nevertheless, it is ambiguous. If only because “Stalin's accomplice” often also sounds like an executioner.
For example, for the victims of the Red Terror, the Catalan socialists POUM or for the German anti-fascist "Trotskyists", or the Polish officers in Katyn, who were destroyed by Stalin.

An unequivocal person is Hitler's ally and the worst enemy of Russia and its people.

But which of the "Russia" was he the worst enemy? Tsarist Russia, within which Finland did not know serfdom and had the broadest autonomy? The officer of which and the explorer of Asia was M.
Or Tsarist Russia in the times of Nicholas, when the clumsy actions of the government for forced russification and "exorcising" Finland, Poland and Ukraine, pushed the local nationalists "into embrace" to the Germans and Bolsheviks? Or bourgeois-democratic Russia, the model of February 1917, which gave national self-determination to Finland and Poland? Russia "Trotskyist-Leninist", which exported the "fire of the world revolution", which was already burning Russia. Or Russia "Stalinist", which in the "winter war" did not succeed in annexing Finland, as they did with the Baltic republics? (Yes, it was in the war for the independence of Their homeland that the Finns brutally killed your grandfathers, who came to Their land in the ranks of the “Bolshevik hordes.” Is everything “straightforward”? - but for me, not a damn thing is unambiguous, except for the graves.)

There is no "abstract Russia", whose enemy M. was. Russia itself split and fought at first in the Civil War. And then Gr. The war continued with the Red Terror, stretching over decades.

In conclusion, an interesting book: Eleanor Ioffe "Mannerheim Lines" , SPb, ed. Pushkin Foundation, 2017 (precisely in the plural, in the sense of "trajectories" to emphasize the notorious ambiguity). In Finland, the "whites" won and this determined the possibility of independence and a bourgeois democratic future for Finland. But it was given with a lot of blood (it seems that the "red" died 25 thousand, for Finland it is a lot). Joffe writes that this division in Finnish society at the level of family memory is still felt, despite the "Finnish consensus".

One thing is clear, since everything is so ambiguous, you should not rush to hang memorial plaques, so you won’t be surprised that they are being smashed. It didn’t heal.

[Valerikk]

Quote: grumbler

And, nevertheless, it is ambiguous. If only because “Stalin's accomplice” often also sounds like an executioner.
For example, for the victims of the Red Terror, the Catalan socialists POUM or for the German anti-fascist "Trotskyists", or Polish officers in Katyn who were destroyed by Stalin.

Germans

[grumbler]

I heard your objection. Unfortunately, this question is so ideologized that it belongs rather to the sphere of "faith", "ideology" than history. I, as an adherent of the "liberal-democratic" wing, based on my convictions and not being a historian, trust historians who attribute Katyn to the crimes of the Red Terror.
I suspect that your opposite opinion is based on the same "solid" foundations.

[Valerikk]

What weapons were the Poles killed from?
Why are they insignia and awards?

[tank64rus]

This is a class enemy. In 1917-18, he put a lot of red Finns and walked a skating rink over the Russians living in Finland. There is nothing to say about the siege of Leningrad. But the enemy is the enemy. But what to say about the traitors of our country, there are no words; only letters remained.