Military Review

"Wild" 1918. The most disordered year of the Civil War

214
World wars, waged, as a rule, by large states, begin at the peak of the form of their armed forces. Then they are replenished by inexperienced mobilized, lowering the overall level. Military products are becoming closer to the concept of ersatz. Food is getting worse. And the conflict, which began under the beat of the drums and the brilliance of the bayonets polished to the sparkle, smoothly passes into the “war of the disabled”. The appearance of the fighting armies is far from the first, enthusiastic days. At the same time, efficiency, which is interesting, is increasing: the reason for this is the transfer of production to military rails and gained invaluable experience.




Civil wars very often look exactly the opposite: they begin after a long period of internal instability, or even after that same world war. Therefore, the “battle of the disabled” takes place, in contrast, at the beginning, and only then do the parties get the specific experience of the civil war, organize the rear, and discipline.

The civil war in Russia took place precisely in this scenario. And her first full year, 1918, turned out to be the peak of weakness and disorganization for both sides.

Anarchy


The Reds “on paper” had a lot of strength. But everywhere had their own characteristics.

The country was revolutionized by a series of deep social problems and a difficult war. Free from the majority of conventions and restrictions of the collapsed state, the masses raged, solving local problems in the good old way. In America, he would be called the Lynch Court.

The Bolsheviks who came to power on this wave were not very happy about this. The doctrine of this relatively small and disciplined party, in contrast to the theorizing of anarchists, suggested building a socialist society "from above." Of course, not from the "bourgeois" state, but by the hands of a certain analogue of the Order of the Templars, a party that sincerely believes in its mission, in which the Bolsheviks, of course, saw themselves.

To do this, it was first necessary to put things in order. But there were serious problems with this in a country in chaos.

The Red Army was born in February 1918 year. But in reality, the forces of the Reds for a long time remained not a single army, but a combination of disparate detachments. Often they were completely different politically - the soldiers "professed" that version of leftist beliefs that was close to their field commander. This was aggravated by the low political literacy of the latter - many of the “leaders” in fact could not even answer to themselves which platform they adhere to. The result was a mess, which concealed enormous potential for misunderstandings, quarrels and direct clashes between seemingly friendly parts of each other.

"Wild" 1918. The most disordered year of the Civil War

Anarchists


Therefore, the real Wild West often reigned in the frontline zone: the one who had people and weapons dictated the will. In case of refusal to execute it conditionally, the “red” detachment could take and shoot the local authorities - the “red” council. There were many such cases, but rarely came to a real trial in Moscow.

Ordering Attempts


The case of Marousi Nikiforova was one of those rare situations when the trial nevertheless “got it.” What was the result?

Maroussia herself was a typical bright personality of her time. An anarchist with experience who sincerely hates the current system and the rich. According to some reports, she organized several attacks before the revolution. I went to prison, rushed to the race and emigrated. But February returned her to Russia, where Maroussia quickly found herself in the role of ataman of the anarchist military detachment. At its peak, there were 1000 people with machine guns, guns and armored vehicles.

There, where the Marusi detachment entered, there was only one power - its. The matter, as a rule, resulted in a robbery - not even because the anarchist strove for profit, but because the detachment somehow had to be supplied. And getting in the way of the furies was not recommended. For example, Maroussia shot the head of the Elisavetgrad military registration and enlistment office, a completely “red” man.

There were many similar precedents on her part, and the case ended in a lawsuit in Moscow. The Bolsheviks, who were always striving to restore order, were determined to make an illustrative example of Marousi - every “field chieftain” could be punished.


The same Maroussia Nikiforova


But the time for this has not yet come. Marusya made many friends even among influential Bolsheviks (for example, Antonov-Ovseenko, who joined the party only in 1917), not to mention the anarchists. Many witnesses managed to die in the fields of Civil, others actively fought and could not come. The court fell apart - only a few of the Marusins' "arts" managed to prove, and the verdict was limited to a six-month ban on holding leadership positions.

Perhaps our heroine would have got it right after the Civil War. But in the 1919 year, she independently outstripped the possible actions of the KGB, setting off to blow up Denikin’s headquarters at the head of a small detachment of saboteurs. But along the way, Maroussia fell into the hands of Slashevskaya counterintelligence, and was ultimately hanged by whites in September 1919.

White has its own problems


White in the first year of the war was also weak, but in his own way. The events of the 1917 year finally decomposed the army, but a significant part of the officers still had a corporate sense. It inevitably placed her at the forefront of the anti-Bolshevik forces. The desire for unity of command, order, and more traditional than proposed by the Reds statehood, only strengthened their impulse.

Across the country, there were many categories of the population that could become natural allies for the white officers. From part of the Cossacks to the bourgeoisie, wealthy peasants and the old bureaucracy. But whites were let down by their officer education. A good military man must distance himself from politics, and, as a rule, does not know the art of agitation.

White put forward the most legitimate, as it seemed, slogan: to restore the Constituent Assembly dispersed by the Bolsheviks. They defiantly did not take on the role of arbiters of the country's fate, offering first to win the war, restore order, and then give the Russians the opportunity to choose independently what kind of government they want. But such a respectful, it would seem, position in practice turned into a complete failure.

To win the Civil War, it was necessary to achieve at least the tacit consent of the majority of the population and mobilize their active supporters. The white formula “we leave everything to the Constituent Assembly” did not help to do either one or the other. The peasants, for example, were worried about the land issue - they had already managed to cut it themselves in an explicit order during the “black redistribution”. And White's hypothetical victory left a chance that the land would be taken back.


The ice campaign was an example of valor and self-sacrifice; its phenomenon to a large extent soldered the Volunteer Army. But its strategic results were deplorable


Other categories of the population that could help the whites were divided. Cossacks thought first of themselves about themselves (and the poor part of the Cossacks even sympathized with the Reds), the "bourgeoisie" in words supported the anti-Bolshevik forces, but were in no hurry to allocate serious money. The rest did prefer, for the most part, to sit quietly, not being sure of anyone's specific victory.

Perhaps to unite potential allies and push them to action could be a less vague program that gives people an idea of ​​what they risk. But there was no such program, and when it appeared, it was too late.

The result was not slow to affect the battlefield. The “officer” white armies of the beginning of the Civil War consisted of well-trained and motivated fighters, but they were few and disgustingly supplied. Interaction with allies and loyal groups was poor. The result was tactically successful actions on the verge of professionalism and heroism, but the practical “exhaust” was equal to zero — here they smashed someone, then scattered the enemies, marched through an unfriendly region, but in the end they achieved little. And when they did, it was too late.

On the eve of great things


1918 year passed in a state of least predictability. Each of the parties had a number of imbalancing shortcomings. How they play, what kind of movement will lead to what, who will crash and for what reason, then it was unknown to anyone.

Each side, on the whole, was aware of these shortcomings and tried to correct them: the Reds sought to restore order, and the White sought to activate and unite their mobilization base. The methods, as well as the results, were different. Success meant gaining vital sustainability and ultimately victory in the Civil War. And although it was still a long way to summing up the results, the prerequisites for them were formed at the end of the 1918 year - the year for both sides of the most amateurish (albeit in different ways), unstable and most disordered.
Author:
Photos used:
feldgrau.info, warhead.su
214 comments
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  1. Far B
    Far B 11 August 2019 06: 32 New
    +4
    World wars, waged, as a rule, by large states, begin at the peak of the form of their armed forces.
    It’s fundamentally wrong. The Third Reich in 1939 (and even more so in 1938, if we take the Czechoslovak section i as a reference point) was not at the peak of form. He reached the peak by the end of the 41st-mid-42nd. There is nothing to say about the moment the United States entered the WWII and the uprising - their ground forces were extremely small. And so in all respects, practically.
    Here, rather, IMHO, an analogy with the world championships, for example, in football will be suitable: on the "run-in" with weak rivals in the group, the national team plays, builds up ligaments, etc., but already by the beginning of the playoff round it reaches its peak forms. And to start right away from the peak ... The USSR national team of the 1986 model will confirm that this is not good.
    1. Far B
      Far B 11 August 2019 06: 51 New
      10
      the Reds sought to restore order, and the White sought to intensify and unite their mobilization base.
      Oh-ho-ho ... It seems that the author is not in the subject (although who today, a hundred years later, is in the subject ???). The white base was so active, Mama don’t worry, the superstructure let us down. And the order in the ranks of the Reds was much more than that of the enemy - the slogan "factories for the workers, land for the peasants, peace for the peoples" was supported by all pro-Bolshevik forces. And the anarchists, and the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries, and that part of the Mensheviks who took the side of the Bolsheviks. But the whites certainly had confusion and vacillation: monarchists, founders, constitutionalists, and other shit. Up to Krasnov with Shkuro and various Semyonovs, who were sharpened almost exclusively for robbery (Denikin will not let him lie). And not at all
      White put forward the most legitimate, as it seemed, slogan: to restore the Constituent Assembly dispersed by the Bolsheviks
      1. Vitaly Tsymbal
        Vitaly Tsymbal 11 August 2019 10: 30 New
        +7
        You take the entire Civil War, the author is only 1918. The fact that he is largely right is undeniable. Unfortunately, the events of 1918, in our "public" historical science, are consecrated only from the "positions of the USSR", although everyone knows that the study of 18 years should have a different approach, not Soviet. But what the author touched on the events of 18 in Russia - well done. This year needs to be studied, it is necessary to analyze - similar things have been repeated in our history (I have the history of Russia) after 18 years.
  2. Olgovich
    Olgovich 11 August 2019 06: 58 New
    -19
    White put forward the most legitimate, as it seemed, slogan: to restore the Constituent Assembly dispersed by the Bolsheviks. They defiantly did not take on the role of arbiters of the country's fate, offering first to win the war, restore order, and then give the Russians the opportunity to choose independently what kind of government they want. But such a respectful, it would seem, position in practice turned into a complete failure.

    This position is not only respectful, but also the fairest and correct one. They gave their lives for this "failure" hundreds of thousands of Russian citizens-for the right to vote, for the opportunity for the people to decide their own fate in free elections. Which the people have been deprived of for 70 years.

    Just before 1918, tens of millions of Russian citizens with great enthusiasm took part in the most democratic elections in the world in the DC of Russia and nothing has changed in a couple of months. The idea was alive.

    While future whites fought at the front with the invaders, the Bolsheviks from Switzerland seized power in the rear. The entire huge industrial base, the arsenals of the 12 millionth army, the country's money, were in their hands.

    White started from scratch, each rifle in 1918 was obtained in battle with his bare hands, there was no money at all. If they had at their disposal in 1918 even a small fraction of the arms and money of the Bolsheviks, a victory in 1918 would be theirs.

    But today the State Banner of the Russian State, under which they fought, proudly blows over the country.
    1. Far B
      Far B 11 August 2019 07: 10 New
      23
      While future whites fought at the front with the invaders, the Bolsheviks from Switzerland seized power in the rear.

      Stunned. How many percent of the fighting generals sided with the Bolsheviks? And what is the percentage of combat officers? Almost equally. "Future Whites Fought at the Front", oga-oga.
      White started from scratch, each rifle in 1918 was obtained in battle with his bare hands, there was no money at all.

      You are this ... Do not read the White Guard newspapers before lunch)))
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 11 August 2019 07: 20 New
        +8
        In general, the one who managed to win over a large mass of the country's population won!
        If you want, if you don’t want, you have to admit that the Bolsheviks acted even smarter!
        It’s just that, it happened and things like that, it’s not possible to dump everything.
        The state, at the core, is a people that supports those that are closer to it ...... but here it is a lot before!
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 August 2019 07: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: rocket757
          In general, the one who managed to win over a large mass of the country's population won!

          I do not quite agree. The winners were those who were able to show that they can better organize themselves and attract experts to their side.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 August 2019 07: 36 New
            +2
            Quote: svp67
            I do not quite agree. The winners were those who were able to show that they can better organize themselves and attract experts to their side

            People, this is a general concept, one might say - citizens, population and, as they say now, voters! The Bolsheviks and their allies found the right, attractive "words" for many .... and some simply served the country / state and had disappointment in the previous rulers!
            All this doesn’t matter, the main thing is the Bolsheviks, their allies were able to bring everyone together under their banners and WIN!
            Further turned out for everyone in different ways !!! But this is another story!
            1. svp67
              svp67 11 August 2019 07: 46 New
              -1
              Quote: rocket757
              The Bolsheviks and their allies found the right, attractive "words" for many ....

              Yes, that's what, what, but with "attractive words" and especially with those who knew how to pronounce them in such a way that they penetrated right to the heart and liver, the same was good. This is the advantage of "passionaries". But they also need very good "managers". The Bolsheviks had them, but the whites had obvious problems with this
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 11 August 2019 08: 11 New
                +5
                Quote: svp67
                Yes, that's what, what, but with "attractive words" and especially with those who knew how to pronounce them in such a way that they penetrated right to the heart and liver, the same was good. This is the advantage

                A trail of mistakes / jambs of the previous government clung to the "white" ones! "red" it was relatively new, unknown, frightening - alluring at the same time !!!
                Whatever conservative society was, throws itself into a new one over and over again ....
                We have a well-known result, we are trying to figure out and not repeat the previous mistakes ...... and still we will step on the previous rake or find new ones !!!
                1. svp67
                  svp67 11 August 2019 08: 21 New
                  +3
                  Quote: rocket757
                  A trail of mistakes / jambs of the previous government clung to the "white" ones!

                  To this we must also add their disunity, like "swan, crayfish and pike"
                  Quote: rocket757
                  "red" it was relatively new, unknown, frightening - alluring at the same time !!!

                  Who is skillfully good at promising and drawing pictures of a "wonderful future" for any part of the population, except for the bourgeoisie and the nobility, of which there were not many in Russia anyway
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 11 August 2019 08: 37 New
                    0
                    Quote: svp67
                    To this we must also add their disunity, like "swan, crayfish and pike"

                    I don’t know if White would have a chance if they had a living symbol, at least something and somehow unifying ??? This reasoning is fortunetelling .... not mine, however.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 11 August 2019 08: 39 New
                      +2
                      Quote: rocket757
                      I don’t know if White would have a chance if they had a living symbol, at least something and somehow unifying ???

                      I can’t even imagine who it could be.
                      They did not have a unifying Leader, and most importantly a common idea
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 11 August 2019 08: 58 New
                        +4
                        Quote: svp67
                        Leader, and most importantly they did not have a common idea

                        The centuries-old idea of ​​KING THE FATHER, practically died .... and then could not create anything worthwhile.
                        However, the times have already come, the natural historical process of replacing preferences and concepts has begun.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 08: 02 New
          -4
          Quote: rocket757
          In general, the one who managed to win over to his side won more mass of the country's population!

          Most of the population at the ELECTION in the CSS refused the Bolsheviks were in power, and there were no more elections in the country.
          1. rocket757
            rocket757 11 August 2019 08: 19 New
            +5
            Quote: Olgovich
            The greater mass of the population at the ELECTIONS in the U.S. denied power to the Bolsheviks, and there were no more elections in the country.

            That is why ALWAYS WRITE that the Bolsheviks knew how to do smarter than many !!! nothing else to explain their victory!
            You can argue, blame, invent different things .... anyway, it turns out that in order to accomplish such a GREAT matter, one must be smarter than their opponents!
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 09: 23 New
              -8
              Quote: rocket757
              That is why ALWAYS WRITE that the Bolsheviks knew how to do CLEVERER many !!!

              belay
              Do you understand WHAT you said ?! In my opinion, no: the civil war unleashed by THEM, with casualties MANY times greater than PMA is ... "mind"?
              Quote: rocket757
              nothing else to explain their victory!

              Why then? Wild, unprecedented terror in the world, shameless lies and deceit, bestial cruelty, hypocrisy and betrayal are components of "victory" (where is it, by the way?)
              Quote: rocket757
              GREAT thing to do, you must be smarter than your opponents!

              The bandit in the gateway is also stronger than a decent person, In your opinion, that means he is right .......
              1. rocket757
                rocket757 11 August 2019 09: 46 New
                +6
                Before becoming a STRENGTH, which could impose its will on a huge country with a large population, it was necessary to have this power! Fools could not b.
                What and how they did THEN, this is a serious topic, for a separate discussion, we are now discussing HOW they took power into their own hands.
                About bandits in the gateway .......
                Do not drag one to the other, your "porridge" in it and sort it out yourself.
                Everything needs order and consistency.
                PS .... by the way, accuse the Bolsheviks of something specifically, do not forget to look at everyone else! "Saints" were not there anywhere and no one!
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 11 August 2019 10: 41 New
                  -11
                  Quote: rocket757
                  Before becoming a STRENGTH, which could impose its will on a huge country with a large population, it was necessary to have this power! Fools failed b.

                  Turaki no. And the Turks-villains- quite: they are the only ones whoe hesitating , IMMEDIATELY, used a weapon, poured blood- while others did their best to AVOID this
                  Quote: rocket757
                  About bandits in the gateway .......
                  Do not drag one to the other, your "porridge" in it and sort it out yourself.

                  This is YOUR logic: whoever is stronger and more successful with a club crashed in is right.
                  Quote: rocket757
                  PS .... by the way, accuse the Bolsheviks of something specifically, do not forget to look at everyone else! "Saints" were not there anywhere and no one!

                  What does ..... have to do with it? Did other FORCE take power, contrary to the decision of the people in the elections?
                  1. rocket757
                    rocket757 11 August 2019 11: 34 New
                    +5
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    IMMEDIATELY, used a weapon, poured blood - while others in every possible way sought to avoid it

                    The seizure of power is almost always violence, only the number of victims is different ..... Do not throw accusations and hang labels, everyone had enough there. To be initially biased, to get to the truth will not work.
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    This is YOUR logic: whoever stronger and more successful crashed with a club is right

                    That makes fun of those who come up with for me and ascribes their br-r-thoughts to others !!! WHERE I said, wrote that running with a baton and banging everyone on the cumpole, IT'S GOOD! SHOW.

                    Quote: Olgovich
                    What does ..... have to do with it?

                    And then what, some Bolsheviks did things, others quietly stood aside? No, we compare ALL with ALL who participated and attended!
                    They took the fashion, it’s possible here, but it’s impossible!
                    EVERYWHERE is possible and NECESSARY! All get their grades.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 August 2019 12: 04 New
                      -8
                      Quote: rocket757
                      The seizure of power is almost always violence, only the number of victims is different ..... Do not throw accusations and hang labels, everyone had enough there. To be initially biased, to get to the truth will not work.

                      Violence against the will of the people is disgusting
                      Quote: rocket757
                      That makes fun of those who come up with for me and ascribes their br-r-thoughts to others !!! WHERE I said, wrote that running with a baton and banging everyone on the cumpole, IT'S GOOD! SHOW.

                      You write that they were stronger and therefore won. the thug is also stronger.
                      Quote: rocket757
                      And then what, some Bolsheviks did things, others quietly stood aside? No, we compare ALL with ALL who participated and attended!

                      A general set of words ..... WHO overthrew by force the people elected power ?! After what the massacre began? Before that her did not have. Catch it?
                      Quote: rocket757
                      They took the fashion, it’s possible here, but it’s impossible!
                      EVERYWHERE is possible and NECESSARY! All get their grades.

                      Yes, WORK in parliament is possible. and KILLING IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!
                      1. rocket757
                        rocket757 11 August 2019 13: 33 New
                        +4
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Violence against the will of the people is disgusting

                        The Bolsheviks managed to mobilize an active part of the citizens of the empire, this part took an active part in their affairs ... who prevented others from convincing, mobilizing the population into their ranks ???
                        All your ... claims rest against this fact.
                        Who could, he won, who the raven at that time believed, as a result could not, did not mobilize, he lost.
                        We simply state the known facts, and the estimates .... the estimates are different from different angles.
                        The right, guilty, philosophical question, but the winners or the losers, this is specific.
                        PS .... I'm not from the party and the attitude towards them is very complicated, but if the fact is, how can you not recognize it.
                      2. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 11 August 2019 14: 01 New
                        -7
                        Quote: rocket757
                        The Bolsheviks managed to mobilize an active part of the citizens of the empire, this part took an active part in their affairs ... who prevented others from convincing, mobilizing the population into their ranks ???

                        In the slaughterhouse took part ...5% of total population ( at both sides). Who had the right to decide for the rest?
                        Others were hindered by just a wild READY to participate in the Fratricidal war. They didn’t want to, although against the Bolsheviks, but they didn’t want to kill. Therefore, there were NOT elections under the Bolsheviks, they were afraid of these millions
                        Quote: rocket757
                        Who could, he won, who the raven at that time believed, as a result could not, did not mobilize, he lost.

                        The conscientious and decent, who did not want to shed their blood, lost, those who were deeply into it won, WHAT is incomprehensible?
                        Quote: rocket757
                        We simply state the known facts, and the estimates .... the estimates are different from different angles.

                        And I'm about the facts: the Bolsheviks lost outright, see. 91 g and underpants
                        Quote: rocket757
                        The right, guilty, philosophical question, but the winners or the losers, this is specific.

                        State flag Of Russiaover the Kremlin.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 11: 12 New
          +9
          Quote: Olgovich
          The greater mass of the population at the ELECTIONS in the U.S. denied power to the Bolsheviks, and there were no more elections in the country.

          Enough to speculate in elections. In bourgeois society, the consciousness of the population is bourgeois, therefore, in view of the low political literacy and consciousness of the masses, the communist forces will never win the election.

          Most voters do not even read the party program and vote not with their “head” but with their “heart”. You ask friends: Why did you vote for Zhirinovsky? Answer: “And we like the way he speaks funny and fights”

          That's the whole story .., therefore, socialism comes only in a revolutionary way. Only after the establishment of the power of the workers gradually began to dominate the workers collectivist socialist consciousness.

          Remember how 20 years after the revolution in the USSR, they voted in the Supreme Soviet elections for "a bloc of party and non-party - 99,3%. Against - only 0,7%.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 August 2019 12: 15 New
            -8
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Enough to speculate in elections. In bourgeois society, consciousness bourgeois population, therefore in view of low political literacy and mass consciousness communist forces they will never win the election.

            Ahhhh, you got the wrong people, of course. lol
            And the communist forces are that angels, a model of humanity, that they must win? lol The people you do not like. gave them an assessment, they failed.
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Most voters do not even read the party program and vote not with their “head” but with their “heart”. You ask friends: Why did you vote for Zhirinovsky? Answer: “And we like how funny is he speaks, and fights "

            Well, you and friends! lol However, not surprised
            Quote: Alexander Green
            That's the whole story .., therefore, socialism comes only in a revolutionary way. Only after establishing workers' power gradually begins to dominate the workers collectivist socialist consciousness.

            Nope, after killing 10 million citizens of the country in a stupid and senseless massacre.
            Let people Choose yourselfand not rape them-WHO are you ?!
            Quote: Alexander Green
            Remember how 20 years after the revolution in the USSR, they voted in the Supreme Soviet elections for "a bloc of party and non-party - 99,3%. Against - only 0,7%

            After the revolution, there were NO elections in the country.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 12: 54 New
              +8
              Quote: Olgovich
              Well, you and friends! However, not surprised

              Do not be malicious, you are not far from them ..

              Quote: Olgovich
              after the killing of 10 million citizens in a stupid and senseless civilian massacre.

              These victims could have been avoided if there had been no White Guard supported by the intervention.
              Quote: Olgovich
              After the revolution, elections were not in the country

              After the revolution, the dictatorship of the proletariat was established, elections were held by labor collectives, factories and factories, they chose their comrades, not oligarchs and businessmen. The bourgeoisie, ministers of worship, and the like were defeated in their rights and did not give in to the elections. At the end of the 30s, when there was no longer any threat to the restoration of bourgeois power and Soviet society became more homogeneous, the elections were generalized and all previously defeated rights were admitted to the elections.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 11 August 2019 13: 32 New
                -10
                Quote: Alexander Green
                These victims could have been avoided if there had been no White Guard

                With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
                Do you agree?
                Quote: Alexander Green
                After the revolution, the dictatorship of the proletariat was established, elections were held by labor collectives, factories and factories, they chose their comrades, not oligarchs and businessmen. The bourgeoisie, ministers of worship, and the like were defeated in their rights and did not give in to the elections. At the end of the 30s, when there was no longer any threat to the restoration of bourgeois power and Soviet society became more homogeneous, the elections were generalized and all previously defeated rights were admitted to the elections.

                You are right exactly dictatorship- brutal, bloody, spat on EVERYONE'S RIGHTS citizen to participate in governing the country.
                There were NOT elections for 70 years, for there was no ELECTION. Shame on you?
                1. rocket757
                  rocket757 11 August 2019 15: 00 New
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  There were NOT elections for 70 years, for there was no ELECTION. Shame on you

                  There were no elections, but the GREAT COUNTRY was, developed and built on everyone's envy!
                  Not without jambs, where without them, all the same the first and in such a "peaceful environment" that the perseverance and perseverance of our ancestors deserves respect!
                  Again, the collapse came when the "leaders, elite" departed from the original line about parents! We put personal interests and ambitions above everything else!
                  Just pause the "experiment" and an object lesson to everyone else!
                  And as they say, history will judge us!
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 11 August 2019 15: 20 New
                    -7
                    Quote: rocket757
                    There were no elections, but the GREAT COUNTRY was, developed and built on everyone's envy!

                    She ALWAYS was great - throughout Thousands years!
                    Always developed and built. AND ROSLA. And after the Bolsheviks, she cringed until the 17th century
                    Quote: rocket757
                    Not without jambs, where without them, all the same the first and in such a "peaceful environment" that the perseverance and perseverance of our ancestors deserves respect!

                    Shoals are unprecedented hunger in the world in peacetime? The execution of hundreds of thousands in one year 37-38 in peacetime? Wow!
                    Quote: rocket757
                    the endurance and tenacity of our ancestors deserves respect!

                    Of course, to withstand such rulers was an impossible task
                    Quote: rocket757
                    Again, the collapse came when the "leaders, elite" retreated from the original line of pro

                    Aha: achievements, achievements and .... collapse. Bad dancer ....
                    Quote: rocket757
                    Just pause the "experiment" and an object lesson to everyone else!

                    Crash is a good lesson, yes ....
                    1. rocket757
                      rocket757 11 August 2019 16: 27 New
                      +6
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      Shoals are unprecedented hunger in the world in peacetime? The execution of hundreds of thousands in one year 37-38 in peacetime? Wow!

                      When you lie-t-t ... write carefully, deeply mistaken, bounce ???
                      Trying to hang the wrong noodles on your ears, immunity, however, and KNOWLEDGE!
                      Look at DOCUMENTS - statistics of mass hunger in the 20th century ..... by the way, and in the most, most, country of striping in the early 30s.
                      In general, there is nothing further to discuss, objectivity penniless, knowledge, facts, figs and no figs, sheer nonsense ... fierce anti-Soviet cliches!
                      Tired of bye.
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 August 2019 20: 37 New
                      -3
                      Quote: rocket757
                      When you lie-t-t ... write carefully, deeply mistaken, bounce ???

                      You are careful about "LIE. And then LIE" will look like when you can not prove my lie. And you can NOT object to the FACTS.
                      Quote: rocket757
                      Trying to hang the wrong noodles on your ears, immunity, however, and KNOWLEDGE!

                      You don’t have any knowledge, alas, since you are writing WRONG about mass deaths in the strip of the 30s, there are NO documents or evidence, ANYTHING except the stupid lies of the post-Soviet commies, because even in the USSR they did NOT write this nonsense.
                      Quote: rocket757
                      See DOCUMENTS - statistics of mass hunger in the 20th century

                      I know them and affirm that NEVER, NEVER such a wild mortality from hunger in the world until the middle of the 20th century, was.
                      Quote: rocket757
                      In general, there is nothing further to discuss, objectivity penniless, knowledge, facts, figs and no figs, sheer nonsense ... fierce anti-Soviet cliches!

                      You are given specific FACTS. You brought back an empty propaganda chatter (you don’t have anything else). Something denied, no, not in power ....

                      Sorry for you .... hi
                  2. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 August 2019 12: 57 New
                    0
                    Russia will still be great !!! In vain you bury the country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  3. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 13 August 2019 12: 59 New
                    0
                    Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                    Russia will still be great !!! In vain you bury the country !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    REPEAT: She always great
                  4. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 August 2019 14: 41 New
                    +1
                    I do not argue, Olgovich! Was, is and will be forever and ever!
                  5. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 14 August 2019 10: 00 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
                    I do not argue, Olgovich! Was, is and will be till the end of time !

                    Yes, and it is necessary all do for this.
        4. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 17: 40 New
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
          Do you agree?

          I do not agree. The dictatorship of the proletariat is democracy for the overwhelming majority that made up the working people of Russia. It limited the rights of only parasitic classes, which constituted a negligible minority of the population.
          Quote: Olgovich
          You are right, it is a dictatorship that is cruel, bloody, spitting on the rights of EVERY citizen to participate in the government of the country.

          But this is an elementary lie. Before the revolution, zero integers — zero tenths of ordinary people — participated in governing the country. And after the revolution, the basis of the dictatorship of the proletariat was the Soviets in each locality, which attracted the entire working people to government.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 August 2019 20: 47 New
            -5
            Quote: Alexander Green
            I do not agree. The dictatorship of the proletariat is democracy for the overwhelming majority that made up the working people of Russia. It limited the rights of only parasitic classes, which constituted a negligible minority of the population.

            1. ONCE AGAIN, if it did not reach: ALL people are EQUAL from birth. And NO ONE has the right to restrict anyone.
            2 You did not answer the question
            Quote: Olgovich
            With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
            Do you agree?

            Quote: Alexander Green
            But this is an elementary lie. Before the revolution, zero integers — zero tenths of ordinary people — participated in governing the country.

            Ignorance cries out
            Quote: Alexander Green
            And after the revolution, the basis of the dictatorship of the proletariat was the Soviets in each locality, which involved the entire government working people.

            1. The lie-people did not participate in the government
            2. Elections in the US-were the most democratic in the world. NOBODY and NOTHING gave you the right to trample the will of the people and arrange a massacre. We had to fight in the PARLIAMENT. not Fighting.
            3. NOBODY, NEVER, NEVER elected you in the elections, so you were afraid of the elections like fire
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 21: 19 New
              +5
              Quote: Olgovich
              1. ONCE AGAIN, if it did not reach: ALL people are EQUAL from birth. And NO ONE has the right to restrict anyone.

              Why, then, in tsarist Russia, those who did not have capital were limited in their rights? Why was serfdom in general?
              The Soviet government limited the rights of the parasites for a time, while there was pissing of the restoration of their power.

              Quote: Olgovich
              You did not answer the question
              Quote: Olgovich
              With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
              Do you agree?

              I already wrote that I do not agree. Why are you stuck that this is a criminal minority? This was the majority, have you really forgotten:
              - that throughout the country from February 1917 the most massive bodies of power, the Soviets, were created.
              -that the election to the Constituent Assembly and the assembly itself took place after these Soviets took power
              - that by this time the triumphal march of Soviet power was in full chord throughout Russia.
              - that all the people at that time did not give a damn about your founder ..

              .
              Quote: Olgovich
              Quote: Alexander Green
              But this is an elementary lie. Before the revolution, zero integers — zero tenths of ordinary people — participated in governing the country.

              Ignorance cries out

              Do not make a fool, name at least one worker or peasant who were in the governing bodies of the tsarist government. Even if you name G. Rasputin, it will not be an otteam, he got there the other way, and calculate how much it will be as a percentage of the number of ordinary people - less than zero integers - zero tenths.

              I have repeatedly answered you the rest of your unfounded accusations towards the Soviet regime, you repeat, come up with something new.
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 23: 12 New
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Why, then, in tsarist Russia, those who did not have capital were limited in their rights?

              The state was moving towards equal and universal elections — progress over 10 years is colossal.
              US elections are the best in the world.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Why was serfdom in general?

              And why the sun?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              I already wrote that I do not agree. Why are you stuck that this is a criminal minority?

              The elections showed a minority, actions (dispersal) -crime.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              - that throughout the country from February 1917 the most massive bodies of power, the Soviets, were created.

              . There were nationwide elections in the Constitutional Council, COMPLETELY supported by the 1st Congress of Soviets and SNK of the Bolsheviks
              Quote: Alexander Green
              that the elections to the Constituent Assembly and the assembly itself have already taken place after these Soviets took power

              authorities Before CSS-so declared Ulyanov a liar, an ignoramus
              Quote: Alexander Green
              that by this time the triumphal march of Soviet power was in full chord throughout Russia.

              What a win in November 1917, ignoramus? You were sent - Moscow, Little Russia, the Urals, Don, Siberia, in many ways, the Volga region, Transcaucasia, etc.
              And once again, the elections and the Constitution were fully supported even by the Bolsheviks
              Quote: Alexander Green
              then all the people at that time did not give a damn about your founder.

              WHO allowed you to speak on his behalf, eh? The people in the elections said their word
              You have NOT answered the questions:
              With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
              Do you agree?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Do not fool, call at least one worker or peasant, who were in the governing bodies of the tsarist government .. Even if you name G. Rasputin,

              Yes, you’re just a whipping boy - you don’t know about peasants and workers-deputies. The Russian Duma is, this, this ... no words, this is beyond even ignorance lol laughing .
              There was even a fraction ... of the Bolsheviks in the State Duma - from workers lol -know!
              Quote: Alexander Green
              To the rest of yours unfounded accusations towards the Soviet power, I have repeatedly answered you

              FACTS ONLY
            3. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 01: 15 New
              +3
              Quote: Olgovich
              What a victory in November 1917, ignoramus?
              Quote: Olgovich
              Yes, you’re just a whipping boy - you don’t know about peasants and workers-deputies. The Russian Duma is, this, this ... no words, this is beyond even ignorance

              All that you wrote is nonsense. You are not even able to read the text, did not understand anything about the triumphal procession or about participating in the management.

              Firstly, the Duma was not a governing body, and secondly, the representation in it, as I wrote, in relation to the entire working people is zero integers - zero tenths.
              But the Soviet government was just the governing body and hundreds of thousands of workers in all settlements took part in it. Therefore, it was a people's power.
            4. Olgovich
              Olgovich 12 August 2019 09: 34 New
              -3
              Quote: Alexander Green
              All that you wrote is nonsense. You’re not even able to read the text,

              is your meaningless set of words is text? lol
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Firstly, the Duma was not a governing body

              It was a body of legislative AUTHORITY, the decisions of which were only executed by the executive branch, i.e. The Duma was still higher step. Got it, finally?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              and secondly, the representation in it, as I wrote, in relation to the entire working people, is zero whole - zero tenths.

              ignoramus: e.g. 2 State Duma-169 peasants, 32 workers,- cut into a knot
              Quote: Alexander Green
              here the Soviet government was just the governing body and in it took the participation of hundreds of thousands of workers in all localities. Therefore, it was a people's power.

              They didn’t accept and didn’t control anything, liar. For the election was NOT.

              PS You are so and could not answer the simplest questions:
              With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
              Do you agree?

              Because there is nothing to argue with an obvious crime
            5. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 19: 54 New
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              because there’s nothing to object to an obvious crime

              And what can one object to a blinded individual who is trying to prove to everyone that being thin and sick is better?
              Calculate how many percentages are 169 peasants and 32 workers relative to the millions of other working people, while the Soviet government attracted millions of people at all levels of Soviet power, plus trade unions, plus national control, plus .... I can’t list everything ... What to talk about with you if you deny the obvious?
            6. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 August 2019 08: 13 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              And what can one object to a blinded individual

              Facts mind. And you cannot, you are insolvent, you are incapable.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Calculate the percentage of 169 peasants and 32 workers relative to the millions of other workers,

              All millions in the Duma? Or millions sat in the sun? What's wrong with you?! fool
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Soviet power has attracted millions of people to manage at all levels of Soviet power

              There was no mention of millions of governing people, for they were deprived of the right and freedom of choice, freedom of speech, parties, meetings, marches, conscience
              Quote: Alexander Green
              What to talk about with you if you deny the obvious?

              You deny the obvious FREEDOM under the Bolsheviks.
            7. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 13 August 2019 16: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              All millions in the Duma? Or millions sat in the sun? What's wrong with you?!

              It’s useless to explain to you, you not only lose your gift of speech, switched to emoticons, but also ceased to understand it, even in written form.
            8. Olgovich
              Olgovich 14 August 2019 09: 51 New
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              It’s useless to explain to you

              Yeah, so you are silent for the seventh time in answer to the SIMPLE questions:
              With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?
              Do you agree?

              Cowardice, yes ..... negative
            9. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 14 August 2019 12: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              With WHAT a fright, millions of people who chose OTHER power should agree with the criminal minority that .... trampled their choice?

              None. I didn’t trample anything, you, as always, are lying and exaggerating. After February, all over the country, there were councils in all settlements that were created by millions of people. In parallel, the Provisional Government launched another project in the form of a Constituent Assembly. which met in January 1918, but as soon as the members of the assembly rejected the decrees of both the world and the land, the Bolsheviks, the Left Social Revolutionaries and their sympathizers, who were supported by the majority of millions of voters, left the meeting. After that, the Constituent Assembly became illegitimate.
            10. Olgovich
              Olgovich 14 August 2019 12: 40 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              None. I didn’t trample anything, you, as always, are lying and exaggerating.

              l, when you answer directly, finally, the wilderness: WHY TENS OF MILLIONS of people who elected their deputies should have agreed that the MINORITY dispersed them by force?
              Would you, personally, would you agree if YOUR deputies were kicked out by a minority?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              In parallel, the Provisional Government launched another project in the form of a Constituent Assembly. which gathered in January 1918

              The election was supported by ALL councils, including the Bolsheviks: 1 Congress of Soviets FULLY supported, Bolsheviks FULLY supported, see. their decree on elections to the Constitutional Council, SNK-DO CSS-decrees- TO CSS.

              And only when the Bolsheviks talked about the elections, they howled about the advice
              Quote: Alexander Green
              the Bolsheviks, the Left Social Revolutionaries and their sympathizers, behind whom stood most million voters

              MINORITY stood behind them, for most Deputies, it remains: do not know how to count too?
              Quote: Alexander Green
              After that, the Constituent Assembly became illegitimate.

              I didn't even write such nonsense. When will you read this miracle, "Bolshevik"?
              Shame .....
            11. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 14 August 2019 17: 06 New
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              MINORITY-dispersed them by force?

              Where did you see it? They parted, realizing their worthlessness.
            12. Olgovich
              Olgovich 15 August 2019 09: 24 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Where did you see it?

              in history
              Quote: Alexander Green
              They themselves parted

              fool belay am
              Here, only Lavrov can object ....
              PS That is, the question is REFUSED to answer.
              Rt
            13. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 15 August 2019 16: 56 New
              0
              Quote: Olgovich
              Here, only Lavrov can object ....
              PS That is, the question is REFUSED to answer.
              Rt

              Read my answer in another discussion, here no one reads us, and I am not writing for you. but for readers.
            14. Olgovich
              Olgovich 16 August 2019 09: 46 New
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Read my answer in another discussion, here no one reads us, and I am not writing for you. but for readers.

              Yeah, right now. just pull up my pants.
              You can’t do anything, that's the whole story.
  • Nagaibak
    Nagaibak 11 August 2019 20: 46 New
    +8
    Alexander Green "Stop speculating with the elections."
    The Socialist Revolutionaries had the majority 40% in the elections.)))) Why our Sites' whites experience an orgasm from these elections is not clear.))) How would the Socialist Revolutionaries behave?))) I think they wouldn’t clatter with whites either.))) 23% - among the Bolsheviks. Another 14% in my opinion are other socialists. And the sovereigns, right and other remnants picked up. The cadets scored 5% in my opinion. The founders were mostly socialists. For carriers of the white idea, there was still no place in the political system. It would have resulted in one way or another in a civil war.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 21: 29 New
      +4
      Quote: Nagaibak
      It would spill out one way or another in a civil war

      I agree with you. The Socialist-Revolutionaries are also socialists, and they did not favor the big bourgeoisie with the monarchy, besides they were heterogeneous, there was a large fraction of the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries, most of whom, after the mutiny, did not agree with their leadership and sided with the Bolsheviks ..
      In addition, when the Bolsheviks and the Left Socialist Revolutionaries left the meeting of the Constituent Assembly, there was no longer the majority with which Olgievich was so anxious.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 12 August 2019 14: 57 New
        +5
        The Social Revolutionaries were also the most repulsed terrorists.
        1. Alexander Greene
          Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 20: 11 New
          +1
          Quote: mat-vey
          The Social Revolutionaries were also the most repulsed terrorists.

          I agree. that is why they were particularly cruel. Moreover, their representatives were both among the reds and among the whites ...
          1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 August 2019 13: 01 New
            0
            Quite right - the Socialist-Revolutionaries were the unfinished remnants of the populists of the late 19th century. They did their dirty work with the money of the West and the Jewish stratum of London-Washington-Paris. Therefore, they were both red and white. Their followers who were not killed and did not have time to die were "cleaned up" in 1934-38.
        2. bukhach
          bukhach 12 August 2019 22: 04 New
          +4
          You are absolutely right, if they had come to power, Russia would still not have washed its face with such blood. Yes, in fact, Komuch cleared the way for Kolchak.
  • Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
    Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 August 2019 12: 54 New
    -4
    Hmm, but the Bolsheviks would not have allowed them! What do you mean - to gain power by delighting the western masters ... and give it to the will of the people, who again do not understand what they will decide!?! ... And the Bolsheviks didn’t have a majority either. The Socialist-Revolutionaries, the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries and the Anarchists led.
  • Olgovich
    Olgovich 11 August 2019 07: 34 New
    -14
    Quote: Dalny V
    Stunned. How many percent of the military generals sided with the Bolsheviks? And how many percent of military officers? Nearly equally.

    To school, for knowledge.
    Quote: Dalny V
    "Future Whites Fought at the Front", oga-oga.

    And their eternal memory and gratitude for saving the country from occupation.
    Quote: Dalny V
    You are this ... Do not read the White Guard newspapers before lunch)))

    To school.

    Follow "Three U!" your foreign tourist
    1. Far B
      Far B 11 August 2019 07: 37 New
      +6
      To school, for knowledge.

      Good luck.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 11 August 2019 09: 24 New
        -8
        Quote: Dalny V
        Good luck.

        Forward! yes
  • Looking for
    Looking for 11 August 2019 13: 44 New
    0
    it would be more accurate not to read "liberal" newspapers before lunch and do not listen to "liberal" radio stations.
  • Paranoid50
    Paranoid50 11 August 2019 16: 29 New
    +8
    Quote: Dalny V
    You are this ... Do not read the White Guard newspapers before lunch)))

    Colleague, this is Olgovich, a local "monarchist". fellow I would never be surprised if he writes these newspapers. wassat
  • iury.vorgul
    iury.vorgul 11 August 2019 07: 14 New
    +5
    But today the State Banner of the Russian State, under which they fought, proudly blows over the country.
    Yeah ... Today, the "Vlasov tricolor" "proudly" covers the plunder of Russia and the Russian people by the Rotenberg and Usmanovs.
    1. svp67
      svp67 11 August 2019 07: 26 New
      0
      Quote: iury.vorgul
      Today, "Vlasov tricolor"

      Well, if it is closer to you, and most importantly dearer, then let it remain "Vlasov's" for you, for others it will be "Peter's", for all times.
      1. iury.vorgul
        iury.vorgul 11 August 2019 07: 29 New
        +3
        For me, the Soviet Red Banner of Victory is dearer. And under your "Petrovsky" just the aforementioned Vlasov lived. So if you consider it a worthy company ... your right!
        1. svp67
          svp67 11 August 2019 07: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          For me, the Soviet Red Banner of Victory is dear to me.

          Who denies that it is native. it’s only that it belongs to a state which is no longer there, for almost three decades.
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          And under your "Petrovsky" just the aforementioned Vlasov lived.

          You know, under the red flag the same freaks were enough, but that doesn’t stop you from loving him
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          So if you consider him a worthy company ... Your right!

          This is your speculation. I never considered traitors to be my company. By the way, from what "vacam" did Vlasov and his army come from? Is it not from under the "Red Banner"?
          1. Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko
            Andrey Zhdanov-Nedilko 13 August 2019 13: 06 New
            0
            Yeah, and under the red flag there were enough freaks and idiots too! ... So, let's not talk about the colors of the flags of Russia!
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 07: 57 New
          -11

          Quote: iury.vorgul
          so what if you consider him a worthy company ... Your right!

          Do not forget what color and who brought Russia to the borders of the 17th century and the Russian Cross - in just 70 years!
          1. Far B
            Far B 11 August 2019 08: 48 New
            10
            If you stubbornly call what happened in the USSR as a "Russian cross", then what should you call what has been done for the last 30 years under the proud tricolor? I have a name for this - "genocide". But maybe you have your own version, as always?
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 09: 37 New
              -12
              Quote: Dalny V
              If what happened under the USSR, you stubbornly call the "Russian cross"

              I don’t call it: it’s a commonly accepted term, CATASTROPHES of the Russian people by 1991. To which they led him from the great ABORTION revolution of 1920 and the demographic catastrophe of the 1930s.
              Quote: Dalny V
              then what to call what they have been doing for the last 30 years under the proud tricolor? I have a name for this - "genocide".

              С 1964 there is a DEPOSITION of Russian-earlier than all in Europe. By 1991, it is already an old people, with a huge number of old people and continuously rapidly declining youth.

              You have been weaning people to give birth - for 70 years, how to fix it?
              1. your1970
                your1970 12 August 2019 09: 13 New
                +3
                Quote: Olgovich
                With 1964 there is a DEPOSITION of Russians - earlier than everyone in Europe.
                -ag ... that is, the boys did not become fathers in 60's and were not born, because their the fathers died in the Second World War, is the Bolsheviks' fault ??? and I sinned on the Wehrmacht ....
                Almost 6000 was called from the district - 1200 returned home. Naturally, in the beginning of the 60's, a failure formed.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 12 August 2019 10: 55 New
                  -4
                  Quote: your1970
                  -ag ... that is, that the boys did not become fathers in the 60s and were not born, because their fathers died in the Second World War, is the fault of the Bolsheviks ??? and I sinned on the Wehrmacht ....
                  Almost 6000 was called from the district - 1200 returned home. Naturally, in the beginning of the 60's, a failure formed.

                  Yeah, but in the 70s the failure is also from the Second World War, in the 80s too? WILD-BIRTH FERTILITY-IN early 30s years on and on
                  1. your1970
                    your1970 12 August 2019 18: 28 New
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    70 e-failure, also from the Second World War, in 80-too?
                    in Europe also Communists are to blame for the decline in fertility in these years? fool fool
                    the words "urbanization", "megacities", "growth of living standards" - no, have you heard?
                    As soon as the thought arises: should we buy a new one ........ (hereinafter referred to as the list) - the children immediately move aside ...
                    Fertility growth is not an indicator of well-being; otherwise, in Sweden there would be 10 children.
                    This is just the opposite indicator - all countries of the world where it is bad / hungry / cold / war - everywhere for 2-3-5-10 children.
                    and the Republic of Ingushetia - just as it was not yet prosperous - therefore, the peasants were forced to multiply: the need for workers, no medicine, and even a bunch of similar factors.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 August 2019 08: 43 New
                      -1
                      Quote: your1970
                      -And in Europe, too, the Communists are to blame for the decline in fertility during these years?

                      1. In Russia, before you, the birth rate was almost 10 times higher than in France. And Russia began to die out much earlier than France, from 1964.
                      2. Are you up to the damned capitalists? You forgot the leader of athletes, I remind you:
                      the population has become multiply much faster than in the old days. net growth is incomparably greater.
                      Quote: your1970
                      RI - just as it was not safe.

                      Yes, yes, coupons for panties by 91 is a sign of "wealth."
                      The level of pre-revolutionary Russia in the consumption of FOOD, clothing and housing in the cities of the USSR reached (barely caught up) only through 40-50 leт
                      3. Do not forget that your abortion revolution was carried out FIRST in the world, it was perceived by a wild ugly abortion culture and traditions during decades.
                      By the number of children killed in the womb, the USSR occupied a confident first place in the world -tens of millions children
                    2. your1970
                      your1970 13 August 2019 08: 46 New
                      +3
                      you can get negative - but in Europe (especially Switzerland and Sweden) and the United States the lowest birth rates. Apparently they are still genocide ....
                      And vice versa, the whole of Africa shows the whole 20 century, a rapid increase in fertility
                      Do not see this and scream that the birth rate is due to the fact that you lived well, can only such a stubborn person like you
        3. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 10: 01 New
          -10
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          And under your "Petrovsky" just the aforementioned Vlasov lived.

          flag of ROA Vlasov-Andreevskyby the way.
    2. Fevralsk. Morev
      Fevralsk. Morev 11 August 2019 07: 29 New
      +9
      As for the tricolor, that's right. He served as an emergency in 1993. Officers called this flag the White Guard. We must not forget that Putin respects the philosopher Ilyin, the stubborn monarchist, the Russian fascist, who admired Nazism. There is his article.
      1. svp67
        svp67 11 August 2019 07: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
        There is his article.

        STUDIO article
      2. Olgovich
        Olgovich 11 August 2019 07: 53 New
        -8
        Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
        As for the tricolor, that's right. He served as an emergency in 1993. Officers called this flag the White Guard.

        Today, like MANY HUNDREDS of the history of Russia, Russian officers and soldiers serve under the RUSSIAN banner.
        AND Proud of it! And rightfully
        1. Looking for
          Looking for 11 August 2019 13: 49 New
          +7
          Trepach !!!! "liberal"
      3. bober1982
        bober1982 11 August 2019 18: 44 New
        -3
        Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
        philosopher Ilyin, stubborn monarchist, Russian fascist, who admired Nazism

        Ilyin was not only a Russian philosopher, but also a Russian nationalist, by the way he had problems with the Nazis, had to leave Germany.
        He certainly was not a fascist.
        Quote: Fevralsk. Morev
        He served as an emergency in 1993. Officers called this flag the White Guard.

        They never called it that, it’s not true, because the brains former soviet officers (1993) were arranged in such a way that they could not call it that, in the literal sense of the word - it was not their mind that this was the case.
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 07: 41 New
      -9
      Quote: iury.vorgul
      Yeah ... Today, "Vlasov the tricolor "proudly" covers.

      You insult the State Banner of the Russian Federation. Shame on you.
    4. rocket757
      rocket757 11 August 2019 07: 42 New
      +6
      Quote: iury.vorgul
      Yeah ... Today, the "Vlasov tricolor" "proudly" covers the plunder of Russia and the Russian people by the Rotenberg and Usmanovs

      The banner, the national flag, is an important symbol, but it’s important what kind of affairs are carried out by the people who go under it!
      Yes, the current capitalists do not take everything Soviet into the spirit ... this is understandable, so we ourselves, in general, allowed it! And now it’s useless to moan, you have to do the thing ..... nothing will go by itself!
      1. iury.vorgul
        iury.vorgul 12 August 2019 03: 51 New
        +4
        Victor, you wrote correctly that the banner is a symbol. I don’t vouch for the accuracy of the quote, and I don’t remember who exactly wrote: "A beautifully painted rag is nailed to a gnarled stick with rusty nails, and people go for this rag and give their lives!" The banner is a symbol of self-identification - I am with these, not with those. As an example: "I cannot stand Richard York, but I generally hate Henry Lancaster, and therefore I am standing under the White Rose, not under the Red Rose." If I went into battle, I went under the Red Banner. And so my heroes are Lenin, Stalin, Voroshilov, Budyonny, Frunze, and Dumenko and Mironov too. And for those who have heroes - Krasnov, Kolchak, Denikin, Yudenich, Wrangel, etc., I will not prove anything to them. I have repeated many times and will repeat again - the main enemy of Stalin was Hitler. therefore, the one who is against Stalin sooner or later will slide to the praise of Hitler, the anti-Soviet is always a Russophobe !!!
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 12 August 2019 08: 23 New
          0
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          The banner is a symbol of self-identification.

          Everything is complicated simply - Whoever is not with us, that ... at least not with dreams!
          Quote: iury.vorgul
          anti-adviser-always Russophobe !!!

          Everything is also complicated - simple !!!
          Bandera is a criminal .... why you need to hate Ukrainians, be ukrofob!
          The American government, the enemy of my Russia !!! why should hate americans ??? and further down the list ...
          Almost everyone wants it to be simple .... so why is everything constantly complicated ???
  • rocket757
    rocket757 11 August 2019 07: 22 New
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    But today the State Banner of the Russian State, under which they fought, proudly blows over the country

    Much in the country can change! But the people remain the same!
  • Essex62
    Essex62 11 August 2019 08: 22 New
    +7
    And who, under this banner, along with the Nazis, fought against the USSR and the Soviet People? Do not remind. And in the civilian, dying class, squinted with the West welcoming the interventionists. The whites did not have any chance. The Bolsheviks corroded slave psychology from a Russian peasant, he realized himself, defeated and rushed into space. That's right, for the vast majority of the country's population, the real, correct story began in October 17th. The cranes came to the burials, let the blue oppressor to the oppressor-slave-owner.
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 11 August 2019 08: 43 New
      +5
      Quote: Essex62
      That's right, for the vast majority of the country's population, the real, correct story began in October 17th.

      Big mistake!!! There is no right, not right story, there is only HISTORICAL SCIENCE!
      That's when they began to curtail history, laid a bo-o-big mine under the Great State of Workers and Peasants !!!
      Present jump on the same rake, distorting our Great Soviet Past !!! their end is predictable and not so far!
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 28 August 2019 23: 30 New
        0
        Maybe there is that science, I’m not sure. The facts underlying its underlying reliability cannot be, well, no matter how. An example from football - the destination is not the appointment of a penalty, from five angles and with a freeze frame, and it’s not clear that the defender of the napa hooked or not. And from the trench to the soldier, the course of the battle is seen in a completely different way than the battalion commander in the dugout, and the commander in headquarters. Chernets is not visible from the cell at all, just sits scribbling on parchment with a dull cinder, and then he writes another story, like a historian and pundit, on the basis of this scribble. What happened yesterday under the nose, a dozen stories will tell, and then centuries. No I do not believe. Science is something that can be experimentally proved.
        And the present does not distort anything. Watered pretty yes. But these are on salary, so small. Those who steer in the direction they need are very smart, stick themselves together. Staples are looking for. Only these bonds in the chain have already turned.
        And I won’t be surprised that in the near future Russia will finally have an idea. For faith, the king and the Fatherland. With all the ensuing bars, slaves and other merry. Here Andrei and others like him will rejoice!
        Your faith in victory impresses me, but the situation suggests otherwise. Most of the youth is irretrievably lost; they were blinded under the system. And will dissolve over time.
        PS To the question of reliability. Read in the next post. Antanta is thrown out of the RSFSR occupiers. What ....
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 29 August 2019 07: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Essex62
          Read in the next post. Antanta is thrown out of the RSFSR occupiers. What ....

          Pulling an event out of context, even taking place, it is possible to mislead someone who has not taught ALL HISTORY / does not know.
          The German occupation forces left the territory of the RSFSR, on which they remained after the Brest Peace Treaty precisely after they lost the WWII to the Entente countries, this is a fact. Interpret as you want, if you do not know the sequence of ALL events before and after!
          However, even knowing everything, you can try to rewrite history as anyone wants.
          Now many people want and here the academic historical science is on guard !!! Which is also trying to "correct", but precisely because it is not someone's personal, but is distributed in many storage / research centers, the truth still breaks out!
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 09: 50 New
      -13
      Quote: Essex62
      And who, under this banner, along with the Nazis, fought against the USSR and the Soviet People? Do not remind.

      Practically NOBODY.
      Quote: Essex62
      And in the civilian, dying class, squinted with the West welcoming the interventionists.

      Controversy with the worst West German-Turkish invaders, a class of loafers-lobotryas-Bolsheviks, who gave them THREE of the European part of the country.
      And she expelled the invaders-ANTANTA.
      Finally, learn YOUR own story.
      Quote: Essex62
      The whites did not have any chance. The Bolsheviks corroded from a Russian peasant slave psychology, he realized himself, defeated and rushed into space.

      They etched themselves RUSSIAN man in the bud, and Russia went into space from the Pre-Revolutionary times of Russia — that is, its scientists went into space. The Bolsheviks did not bring a single scientist from Switzerland; they all grew up in the IMPERIAL HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS!
      Quote: Essex62
      That's right, for the vast majority of the country's population, the real, correct story began in October 17th. The cranes came to the burials, let the blue oppressor to the oppressor-slave-owner.

      And the most important achievements of "this" history "are the Russian border 17th century and the dying Russian people. And also coupons for underpants and for everything else.
      Yeah, "reached"
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 11 August 2019 10: 22 New
        +9
        and Russia went into space from the Pre-Revolutionary times of Russia — it was her scientists who went into space.

        Yeah. And during WWI, RI did not have a single aircraft engine of its own, in France they had to order. You read the memoirs of Count Ignatiev "50 years in the ranks", I recommend.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 10: 54 New
          -10
          Quote: Aviator_
          Yeah. And during WWI RI did not have a single aircraft engine

          Yeah first in the world submarine on Russian diesels gave rise to everyone else.
          Like the first in the world diesel electric ship (before the Thief 70% of the ships of the world-русские) and the world's first TV show: when you watch TV, think about it.
          Quote: Aviator_
          You read the memoirs of Count Ignatiev "50 years in the ranks", I recommend.

          I do not recommend reading an individual-parquet sharkun, damned his mother and brother, the true hero of the battles for the homeland.
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 11 August 2019 13: 39 New
            +9
            Quote: Olgovich
            Yeah, and the world's first submarine on Russian diesel engines gave rise to everything else.

            This is one phrase
            Quote: Olgovich
            Russian diesels

            makes the head scratch. Rudy Diesel hardly agreed with you.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 14: 12 New
              -7
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              makes the head scratch. Rudy Diesel hardly agreed with you.

              Those. diesels, for example, the United States, too, will make his head torment?
              And he will agree: ask who taught dieselwork on oil and WHAT is "Russian diesel".
              It was not Diesel, but "Russian Diesels" -designed and built in RUSSIA. Like the world's first "compressorless high-pressure oil engine", that is, the diesel engine in its modern form with a prechamber, which was called the “Trinkler motor”
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 11 August 2019 14: 15 New
                +4
                Quote: Olgovich
                WHO taught diesel to work on oil

                Not up to date, to be honest. But I know that nemchura filled the tanks with sunflower oil when the solarium went up. laughing
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 11 August 2019 14: 36 New
                  -4
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  Not up to date, to be honest.

                  OUR engineers. Therefore, the RUSSIAN diesel.
                  Therefore, our first diesel submarine, our first diesel-electric ship, and first fleet in the world (including by number) motor ships-Our buildings and structures.
                  1. Mordvin 3
                    Mordvin 3 11 August 2019 14: 51 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    OUR engineers. Therefore, the RUSSIAN diesel.
                    Therefore, the first diesel submarine is ours, the first diesel-electric ship is ours and the world's first fleet (including the number) of motor ships of our construction and construction.

                    What I don’t know, I don’t know. request But, I think that you will find many opponents. I am a pass.
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 August 2019 20: 51 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      What I don’t know, I don’t know. But, I think that you will find many opponents. I'm a pass

                      There is no arguing against the truth.
                    2. Mordvin 3
                      Mordvin 3 11 August 2019 20: 55 New
                      0
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      There is no arguing against the truth.

                      And here are the figurines. Each has its own truth. As Paulus said? "The truth is different for everyone"
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 11 August 2019 23: 18 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Mordvin 3
                      And here are the figurines. At each has its own truth.

                      And here are the figurines: the first diesel submarine in the world-RUSSIAN and - further on the list. And this true.
                      Find YOURS, another - the "truth". Please. lol
      2. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 11 August 2019 15: 11 New
        +5
        So what about aircraft engines? Were they domestic in the Republic of Ingushetia, or not? And what was the most massive submarine project in Ingushetia? I remind you - American Holland) And the "parquet shaker" did not give the funds to the White Guards, but returned them to Soviet Russia. And they went to the restoration of the Great Country, and not to "French rolls". I do not recommend re-reading "Ogonyok" from the times of editor-in-chief Korotich and Govorukhin's film "Russia, which we (he personally) lost".
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 21: 08 New
          -2
          Quote: Aviator_
          So what about aircraft engines? Were they domestic in RI, or not?

          So what about diesels? Were they RUSSIAN or not? Who taught them to work on oil, created the first diesel-electric motor ships and a mass fleet of them?
          Quote: Aviator_
          And what was the most massive submarine project in RI? I remind you - American Dutch

          The world's first DIESEL boat-RUSSIAN with RUSSIAN engines-tie a knot ....
          Quote: Aviator_
          And what was the most massive submarine project in RI? recall - American Dutch)

          The ignoramus is the most massive and BETTER than Holland was the RUSSIAN project "Bars" RUSSIAN engineer Bubnov-built 24 pc against 11 Dutch. Which is ahead of its time and ahead of the performance even late
          Quote: Aviator_
          And the "parquet shaker" did not give the funds to the White Guards, but returned them to Soviet Russia.

          Parquet sharkun-WITHOUT quotation marks-he never served in the ranks. Cursed by mother and brother-Hero of war, you are good .... heroes
          Quote: Aviator_
          And they went to the restoration of the Great Country, and not to "French rolls".

          Something in 91 g was already coupons for cowards is an achievement, yes ....
          Quote: Aviator_
          I do not recommend re-reading "Ogonyok" from the times of editor-in-chief Korotich and Govorukhin's film "Russia, which we (he personally) lost".

          Read the history of our homeland. And not agitation from bankrupt from the past.

          PS What is in you hatred to the achievements of Russia and the Russian people ... request
          1. Aviator_
            Aviator_ 11 August 2019 21: 17 New
            +3
            I have the most direct relation to the achievements of Russia. This is your hatred of Soviet Russia, in which, apart from the coupons for clothes in 1991, you see nothing. By the way, at that time Russia was already Gorbachev. About the submarine. Here the Netherlands fought at in the domestic at the Black Sea Fleet. And where and when did the Leopards (if there were already 24 units) fight? There was nothing but one successful attack on the civilian. Crunch crust, now there are a lot of them.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 23: 28 New
              -4
              Quote: Aviator_
              I have the most direct relation to the achievements of Russia. This is your hatred of Soviet Russia, in which, in addition to coupons for clothes in 1991, you see nothing.

              not hatred, but naked FACTS. WHERE is emotion (hatred?). And coupons were not only for cowards, but also for FOOD. This is the pinnacle of "achievements".
              Quote: Aviator_
              By the way, at that time Russia was already Gorbachev.

              coupons were from the beginning 1980signoramus
              Quote: Aviator_
              About the submarine. Here the Netherlands fought at in the domestic at the Black Sea Fleet.

              Did you admit that you froze BRED about the most mass boat, this is an alien submarine, in Russia?
              Quote: Aviator_
              А where and when Leopards (if there were already 24 pieces) fought?

              Learn the history of our Fatherland and you will learn amazing things. There is no educational program.
              Maybe wild Russophobia will pass
              Quote: Aviator_
              Crunch crust, now there are a lot of them.

              Yes, more, yes ....
              1. Aviator_
                Aviator_ 12 August 2019 07: 12 New
                +1
                As for the facts, disease - the results of the combat use of submarines? About the number of "Leopards" - a scan of the production document? As for the coupons "early 80s" - no need to tell me how bad I lived in the USSR.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 12 August 2019 09: 48 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  About the facts sickly - the results of the combat use of submarines?


                  "sick" hide your shameful embarrassment?
                  lol
                  Only one fact: BARS "Panther" was decommissioned from the fleet only in .... 1955 year!.

                  The rest is "by herself, by herself!", Because this is not an educational program, I repeat, and to remove your denseness is not my business
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  As for the coupons "early 80s" - no need to tell me how bad I lived in the USSR.

                  Yes food stamps and underpants are a sign of a good life, yes lol
                2. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 12 August 2019 18: 17 New
                  +1
                  So the document on the production of submarines and their effectiveness will, or not, be a Romanian citizen?
                3. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 August 2019 08: 49 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  So the document on the production of submarines and their effectiveness will, or not, be a Romanian citizen?

                  Do you recognize your blatant nonsense, bankrupt citizen?
                  ONCE AGAIN, there are no courses to cure ignorance, dear: information is sea.

                  PL Bars:

                  "Leopard"
                  "Petrel"
                  "Boar"
                  "Wolf"
                  "Loon"
                  "Cheetah"
                  "Unicorn"
                  "Ruff"
                  "Snake"
                  "Cougar"
                  "Swan"
                  "Leopard"
                  "Lioness"
                  "Orlan"
                  "Panther"
                  "Pelican"
                  "Lynx"
                  "Tiger"
                  "Tour"
                  "Acne"
                  "Duck"
                  "Trout"
                  "Jaguar"
                  "Ide"
                  https://flot.com/users/lapin/Imperial/type_bars.htm
                4. Aviator_
                  Aviator_ 13 August 2019 09: 01 New
                  +1
                  Is this a scan? Well, well ... And where are the results of combat use, Romanian monarchist?
                5. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 13 August 2019 09: 37 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Aviator_
                  And where are the results of combat use, Romanian monarchist?

                  And there, too, the former.
  • chenia
    chenia 11 August 2019 10: 48 New
    12
    Quote: Olgovich
    The position is not only respectful, but also the most fair and correct.


    Olgovich, you are kind of a monarchist, or still a hidden liberoid is a liberast (I always knew that I was a liberalist).

    During the war, the DC, (if you still know who had the majority there), a talking room and demagogy - and at the same time broadcast. What is the EXIT. So it's not even a dead end and decay without any hope of rebirth.

    Even Kerensky’s attempt to become a dictator in such an environment makes sense (and Kornilov too). And the monarchy (be the king not a rag) is generally preferable in such a situation.

    But not CSS. Remember the Congress of People's Deputies of the late 80s and their role in the collapse of the country.
    To represent a savior of the fatherland a couple of hundred deputies of completely opposing political views can be a completely finished liberal (yes, take off, already a mask of a monarchist). Absurd delirium.

    And thank God that the Bolsheviks defeated.
    Quote: Olgovich
    The State Banner of the Russian State, under which they fought, proudly blows over the country.

    And this is due to the backlog that the Communists left, otherwise Russia would have evaporated (and this process under the liberal-democratic power has so far only been slowed down).

    An example of Ukraine is the complete victory of liberalism.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 11: 51 New
      -9
      Quote: chenia
      Olgovich, you are kind of a monarchist, or still a hidden liberoid is a liberast (I always knew that I was a liberalist).

      lol
      Quote: chenia
      During the war, the DC, (if you still know who had the majority there), a talking room and demagogy - and at the same time broadcast. What is the EXIT. So this is not even a dead end, but decay without any hope of rebirth.

      Nonsense was the choice of the PEOPLE who made it with great enthusiasm
      Quote: chenia
      But not CSS. Remember the Congress of People's Deputies of the late 80s and their role in the collapse of the country.

      only CSS. This is the only alternative. slaughterhousearranged by the Bolsheviks.
      Quote: chenia
      To represent a savior of the fatherland a couple of hundred deputies of completely opposing political views can be a completely finished liberal (yes, take off, already a mask of a monarchist). Absurd delirium.

      These are FAVORITES of tens of millions of people
      Quote: chenia
      And thank God that the Bolsheviks defeated.

      God and .... the Bolsheviks, what is the matter with you71
      Quote: chenia
      And this is due to the backlog that the Communists left, otherwise Russia would have evaporated (and this process under the liberal-democratic power has so far only been slowed down).
      your "touch" -endangered people since 1964 and the borders of the 17th century.
      And touched Russia in 1917, the fastest-growing young people full of strength and energy, a huge country - WHAT did you do with them in just 70 years?
      Quote: chenia
      An example of Ukraine is the complete victory of liberalism.

      "Ukraine" is a monster created in 1917-1918 by the Bolsheviks, which had never existed before them.
      1. chenia
        chenia 11 August 2019 13: 03 New
        +7
        Quote: Olgovich
        Nonsense was the choice of the PEOPLE who made it with great enthusiasm

        Well, it was at the end of the 8th, the Nordep Congress is the most exciting series on TV.
        Remember the result.

        Quote: Olgovich
        This is the only alternative to the slaughter


        This was the beginning of the massacre with an unpredictable result, the US could not have stopped the centrifugal forces (the end of Russia as a great power).
        For me, any collegial body in a state of martial law is delusional.
        And you yourself know about it, although ..... (well, it happens).

        Quote: Olgovich
        your "touched" -the dying people since 1964 and the borders of the 17th century.


        For a start
        Firstly, a decline in population growth began in 1904.
        Secondlyif in the future Russia is a bastard, patriarchal country (with a predominant rural population, and not by 1960, 50% is already urban). , then YES, a drop in population growth rates would be much slower well (it’s not difficult to look at and compare these rates in developed and underdeveloped countries (here countries with even more pronounced Catholic traditions should be taken into account - the rates are higher)).
        Thirdly the growth rate of the USSR population was not much less in the period between the Great Patriotic War and the Second World War. (see graph - well, if you can read and understand it).
        Fourthly, the population growth of the Slavic peoples was until the end of the 80s (especially after the anti-alcohol company), yes it was 5-6 times lower than that of the non-Slavic, but it was (the total growth of the USSR was 23-25 ​​million / 10 years .., where 7-8 million Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians).
        Fifthly- the strongest extinction began in the "fertile" times of liberalism and democracy, CATASTROPHIC. Across the USSR for 30 years to 65-70 million people.
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 13: 48 New
          -10
          Quote: chenia
          Well, it was at the end of the 8th, the Nordep Congress is the most exciting series on TV.
          Remember the result.

          Different things.
          US-selected PEOPLE
          Quote: chenia
          This was the beginning of the massacre with an unpredictable result, the US could not have stopped the centrifugal forces (the end of Russia as a great power).

          1. Nonsense - there was no slaughter - before your 2.
          2. ALL independence, only with YOU, before you, ANYTHING, Remember this FACT.

          Even what you call the "end" of Russia, the territory was much BIGGER than the current borders of Russia in the 17th century, cut by your
          Quote: chenia
          firstly, the decline in population growth began in 1904.

          nonsense
          Quote: chenia
          secondly, if in the future Russia is a bastard, patriarchal country (with a predominant rural population, and not by 1960, 50% is already urban). , then YES, a drop in population growth rates would be much slower well (it’s not difficult to look at and compare these rates in developed and underdeveloped countries (here countries with even more pronounced Catholic traditions should be taken into account - the rates are higher)).

          you forgot that under socialism
          "the population has become multiply much fasterthan in the old days. net growth is incomparably greater. Stalin

          And you compare with the damned capitalists.
          Quote: chenia
          Thirdly, the population growth rate of the USSR was not much less in the period between the Great Patriotic War and the Second World War. (see graph - well, if you can read and understand it).

          If you write in Russian, I understand: WHAT is not less?
          Quote: chenia
          Fourth, the population growth of the Slavic peoples was until the end of the 80s (especially after the anti-alcohol company), yes it was 5-6 times lower than that of the non-Slavic, but it was (the total growth of the USSR 23-25 ​​million / 10 years. ., where 7-8 million are Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians).

          Russian depopulation (extinction) - since 1964, is a fact of demography that has slowed down, but the growth is not a consequence of the Bolshevik time, it is the inertia of the former. But failure is your everything
          Quote: chenia
          Fifthly, the most powerful extinction began in the "fertile" times of liberalism and democracy, CATASTROPHIC. In the USSR for 30 years up to 65-70 million people.

          Extinction, since 1964 ,, "revolution" 91g-conducted by YOUR communists (EBN, kvchukii pr Gaidars) in your Bolshevik style
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 18: 02 New
            +3
            Quote: Olgovich
            "revolution" 91g-conducted by YOUR communists (EBN, kvchuk and pr Gaidars) in your Bolshevik style

            The counter-revolution of 1991 was the work of Yeltsin and his team, you probably supported him at that time, because he destroyed socialism. After all, he is yours - of the same blood, he even returned the tricolor to the Kremlin towers to you. Why are you disowning him now?
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 11 August 2019 19: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Alexander Green
              The counter-revolution of 1991 was the work of Yeltsin and his team, you probably supported him at that time, because he destroyed socialism.

              The CPSU itself destroyed and smashed not only the CPSU (!), But also the world's first state of workers and peasants, created by the Bolshevik party itself.
              With mass support of the members of the CPSU themselves.
              And, you, all these party pogroms are called counter-revolution, but if there were all these numerous counter-revolutionaries, then who should be called revolutionaries?
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 21: 39 New
                +3
                Quote: bober1982
                ... but if there were all these numerous counter-revolutionaries, then who should then be called revolutionaries?

                Unfortunately, after the death of I.V. The Stalin of the CPSU departed from the dictatorship of the proletariat and changed its program documents. As a result, it began. decay, but during perestroika, when a real threat of the elimination of socialism in the USSR was already formed, the ideas of Bolshevism were again in demand.

                Therefore, the real Communists in May 1989 first formed the All-Union Society “Unity - for Leninism and Communist Ideals”. Then on July 13, 1991, in Minsk, the constituent All-Union Conference of the Bolshevik Platform in the CPSU was held, and in November 1991 the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks was created on its basis
            2. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 21: 19 New
              -3
              Quote: Alexander Green
              The counter-revolution of 1991 was the work of Yeltsin and his team, you probably supported him at that time, because he destroyed socialism.

              EBNY is the flesh of YOUR flesh, Komi, the CLEAREST product of YOUR system: born with you, raised by you, raised by YOU and supported by you.
              I hated him for destruction of the country. And this is the main thing, the country.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              After all, he is yours - of one blood

              He is YOUR blood. Tricolor regained Russia-its flag.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Why are you disowning him now?

              From EBN? Because he is stupid, drunk, ignorant, deceitful, hypocritical, mean. possessed all the qualities your nomenclatures
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 00: 53 New
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                He is YOUR blood.

                Well, you, too, were brought up under the Soviet regime, you were probably an Octobrist, a pioneer, a Komsomol member, maybe you tried to enter the CPSU, but it turned out ... also EBN.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 12 August 2019 09: 52 New
                  0
                  Quote: Alexander Green

                  Well, you too were brought up under the Soviet regime, you were probably an Octobrist, a pioneer, a Komsomol member.

                  lol That's all you can say to justify your stamping work. Donks EBNov, Gaidar and other Kravchuk?
                  Shame .... negative
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 20: 06 New
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    That's all you can say to justify your stamping work. Donks EBNov, Gaidar and other Kravchuk?
                    Shame .... negative

                    And who designed you this? After all, EBN, Gaidar, Kravchuk and YOU are twin brothers. All of you are seething with hatred for Soviet power. So it’s interesting to me: where did you freak out, it seems that we all studied the same way in the Soviet school, were brought up by the Soviet government ...
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 13 August 2019 08: 27 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      And who designed you this? After all, EBN, Gaidar, Kravchuk and YOU are twin brothers.

                      You are delusional. I-have never been the supreme leading abomination of the EBNs from the top of the party, and would never have become one. To do this, one had to be an exceptional pod.onk, a liar, a liar, an ignoramus with iron elbows. And they were forged in the "leading force, have you forgotten?"
                      Quote: Alexander Green
                      All of you are seething with hatred for Soviet power. So it’s interesting to me: where did you freak out, like we all studied the same way in the Soviet school, were brought up by the Soviet government

                      Born in Russiathousand-year-old great and indivisible Russiain which for a short time seized power ebny and forks, cutting it into dozens of so-called ugly "ukrainian"
                    2. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 13 August 2019 16: 56 New
                      -2
                      Quote: Olgovich
                      In Russia was born a thousand-year-old great and indivisible Russia,

                      I doubt it deeply, the Russians will not spit vicious saliva like you.
        2. chenia
          chenia 11 August 2019 19: 25 New
          +3
          Quote: Olgovich
          Different things.
          US-selected PEOPLE


          And the congress aliens?
          Quote: Olgovich


          1. Nonsense - there was no slaughter - before your 2.

          And this is nothing that started your carnage.

          Quote: Olgovich
          2. ALL independence, only with YOU, before you, ANYTHING, Remember this FACT.


          And Poland, already under the tsar's priest, began to drift. And the king. who threw off? Remember the fact.
          And you know the composition of the CSS. And were these talkers able to keep Russia from collapse? lol

          Quote: Olgovich
          And you compare with the damned capitalists.

          Urbanization, its own laws, that under capitalism then under socialism

          Quote: Olgovich
          If you write in Russian, I understand: WHAT is not less?


          Translated into Russian-Moldavian, the growth rate. The value is relative, the graph is determined by the steepness.
          You constantly confuse the number of births with an increase. Other factors also influence growth.

          From 1960 to 1970 was the most (unsurpassed) decade in terms of population growth in the USSR -32 ml.. FACT absolute.
          And you're talking about extinction.
          You are more careful with the Moldavian statistics.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 August 2019 21: 34 New
            -3
            Quote: chenia
            And the congress aliens?

            spit on the congress, what are we discussing?
            Quote: chenia
            And this is nothing that started your carnage.

            I repeat: before YOU, your coup-slaughter was not. It is a fact.
            Quote: chenia
            And you know the composition of the CSS. And were these talkers able to keep Russia from collapse?

            it’s not your mind’s business, but the people who have chosen PEOPLE ELECTIONS
            Quote: chenia
            Translated into Russian-Moldavian -growth rates. The value is relative, the graph is determined by the steepness.

            1 You write in RUSSIAN, and not on this:
            Quote: chenia
            Thirdly, the population growth rate of the USSR not much less were in between GV and WWII

            2. WHAT to compare ?! am

            Quote: chenia
            You constantly confuse the number of births with an increase. On the growth affect and other factors.

            belay lol Yeah, birth-do not affect. laughing
            Quote: chenia
            From 1960 to 1970, it was the most (unsurpassed) decade in terms of population growth in the USSR-32 mln. People. FACT is absolute.

            There was an increase, yes. So is Extinction. I understand that brains are melting, but this is a fact that explains the appearance of the Russian Cross with your miraculous "gains." Not ONE generation that entered life in the early 30s - NOT reproduced itself
            Quote: chenia
            You are more careful with the Moldavian statistics.

            This is even a false sozstatistka admitted. A true one would be even worse
            1. chenia
              chenia 12 August 2019 08: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Olgovich
              it’s not your mind’s business, but the people who have chosen PEOPLE ELECTIONS


              Argument??? Illiterate Russia has chosen screamers who must save it.
              By the way, an example-composition of the Central Council is elected to the Constitutional Council from Ukraine. Super helplessness in management, not one state institution could not be created, chatter and universals (declaration of intent).
              Although you have to prove ... The libiroid consciousness is perverted.


              Quote: Olgovich
              WHAT to compare ?!


              What is the argument about? You are constantly proving the difference between the two periods (before and after) and it is no longer fate to come to terms. Look at the graph (do you know how to work with such information?) And compare the steepness of two periods - before and after. In an established state (transition states do not count).

              .
              Quote: Olgovich
              Yeah, birth-do not affect.


              AND OTHER FACTORS.- you need to read carefully.
              For example, an unprecedented increase in the 60s is associated with vaccination, and the widespread use of antibiotics, a sharp decrease in child mortality, in short, thanks to a breakthrough in medicine. Because of this, the average life expectancy has increased sharply. And the birth rate was within normal limits.

              Quote: Olgovich
              A true one would be even worse


              It was a conscious choice of people, but not connected with a deterioration in life, by the way when Stalin prohibited abortion (1936), the growth rate was ahead of the pre-revolutionary rate,
              But the failure of the 90s, and there is a deterioration in life (relatively), the main achievement of liberalism.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 12 August 2019 10: 08 New
                -1
                Quote: chenia
                Illiterate Russia chose screamers,

                Your insults to the people of Russia and its chosen ones do not make you more convincing. All the people you come across are not that, fi ...
                Quote: chenia
                By the way, an example-composition of the Central Council is elected to the Constitutional Council from Ukraine. Super helplessness in management, not one go

                What are you talking about? I - about US RUSSIA.
                Quote: chenia
                Although you have to prove ... The libiroid consciousness is perverted.

                And you are not able to prove anything, you have NO arguments. The popularly elected Parliament is dispersed by the marginalized losers - this is a FACT
                Quote: chenia
                What is the argument about? You are constantly proving the difference between the two periods (before and after) and reach out no longer fate

                I must not solve tongue-tied tongues.
                The population growth of Russia over the years of Nicholas is -50%, over the next 22 years, a lying 17% (in reality, even less). CATASTROPHE
                Quote: chenia
                It was a conscious choice of people

                In WHAT elections was this "conscious"choice? belay lol
                Quote: chenia
                when Stalin prohibited abortion (1936), the growth rate was ahead of the pre-revolutionary rate,

                Yeah, and came to ...extinction- nothing wedges in the head?
                30s-CATASTROPHE in demography. That is why the best sportsman forbade abortion.
                1. Vadim237
                  Vadim237 13 August 2019 00: 14 New
                  0
                  From 1917 to 53, Russia and the USSR lost more than 50 million people as a result of: actions of the authorities, wars, hunger, revolutions, repression, dispossession of kulaks, exiles, forced relocations. During the Second World War, the USSR received damage in the amount of 700 trillion rubles, transferring to modern money - the bloodiest battle in the history of mankind took place, “Stalingrad”, and no matter what achievements the country has made during this time, the above events all multiply by zero.
  • Kronos
    Kronos 11 August 2019 11: 47 New
    +7
    Again lying Olgovich white equipment supplied the Entente
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 12: 22 New
      -11
      Quote: Kronos
      Again lying Olgovich white equipment supplied Entente

      You have it from illiteracy: Entente shipments began in March 1919 g, before that they fought with their bare hands, what was taken from the Bolsheviks.
      There were deliveries to Krasnov, but this is a miserable penny compared to the arsenal of the Bolsheviks ....
      1. Looking for
        Looking for 11 August 2019 13: 53 New
        +8
        that you are also a petty liar !!!
        1. mat-vey
          mat-vey 11 August 2019 14: 25 New
          +6
          It looks more like a person lives in a parallel world ...
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 11 August 2019 21: 37 New
            -3
            Quote: mat-vey
            It looks more like a person lives in a parallel world ...

            In a parallel world of darkness there are ignoramuses who do not know the history of their homeland.
            1. mat-vey
              mat-vey 12 August 2019 14: 53 New
              +1
              "In a parallel world of darkness, there are ignorant people who do not know the history of their homeland." - well, excuse me that your world is dark not specified.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 12 August 2019 15: 07 New
                0
                Quote: mat-vey
                In a parallel world of darkness, ignorant people live who do not know the history of their Motherland. "- well, excuse me that your world of darkness has not specified.

                1. It’s unpleasant to read your writings: it’s clear that this is not a punctuation lesson, but SO distort the language, that it is impossible to understand the meaning-disgrace!
                You are
                well, excuse me, that your world is dark- did not specify
                wanted to say? recourse
                Now to the point: can you refute my statement about the Entente supplies from March 1919, which you called the "parallel world"? No?

                Then you just liedignoramus ..... hi
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 12 August 2019 15: 12 New
                  0
                  Can you prove what to prove that four years have passed between 1918 and 1919? Or is time flowing differently in your dark world?
    2. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 11 August 2019 20: 54 New
      +3
      Kronos "Again you are lying Olgovich the Entente supplied equipment to the White."
      Watch out with him. And then his foam will come from somewhere.)))
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 11 August 2019 11: 57 New
    +9
    Quote: Olgovich
    The position is not only respectful, but also the most fair and correct.

    But only at that time very few thought so. In the November 1917 elections to the U.S., the absolute majority was won by the socialist parties, which is why the whites (who are not from the “pink” ones) directly stated that they would not fight for the “founding party”. Read: if elections are won, they will not be allowed to vote with such a “will of the people”. That is how they were understood in the country.
    The majority of the population (mainly peasants) simply did not need the US - they took the land without it. In addition, they remembered WHAT was in the State Duma under the tsar and WHO and HOW there resolved peasant issues. If White won, the prospect was obvious. Therefore, the result of the civil war ... is known.

    Quote: Olgovich
    While future whites fought at the front with the invaders

    On a par with future reds.
    Quote: Olgovich
    the Bolsheviks from Switzerland seized power in the rear.

    After the future whites staged a coup in Stavka and destroyed the front and rear. Providing the Bolsheviks seizure of power.

    Quote: Olgovich
    White started from scratch, each rifle in 1918 was obtained in battle with his bare hands

    Why then. The Germans, for example, supplied them very well. Donets willingly took, "volunteers" - frowned, turned away, but also took. lol

    Quote: Olgovich
    If they had at their disposal in 1918 even a small fraction of the arms and money of the Bolsheviks, a victory in 1918 would be theirs.

    And if they had the support of the people, no money and no weapons would help the Bolsheviks. good
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 13: 19 New
      -7
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      But only at that time very few thought so.

      almost EVERYTHING thought so: the elections showed it
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      therefore, white (who are not from the "pink") directly stated that they would not fight for the "founding party". Read: if elections are won, they will not be allowed to vote with such a “will of the people”. That is how they were understood in the country.

      again you have an empty CHEST: US-was software the goal of the Russian State is white, to know.
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Most of the population (mainly peasants) need not - they took the land without it.

      You are talking nonsense: the peasants actively participated in the elections and you were not authorized to speak on their behalf.
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      In addition, they remembered WHAT was in the State Duma under the tsar and WHO and HOW there resolved peasant issues

      Are you a peasant for 17 years? lol What are you talking about?
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      If White won, the prospect was obvious.

      You are illiterate horror dr:
      1. The US has passed the Law on Land -
      2. obvious what? Besides your delirium?
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      On a par with future reds.

      Show me these "fighters" in the first SNK-except for the traitor-deserter Ovseenko and Krylenko-s "pubic eczema"! yes
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      After the future whites staged at Headquarters переворот

      again nonsense golimy-what "coup"? fool
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Why then. The Germans, for example, supplied them very well. Donets willingly took, "volunteers" - frowned, turned away, but also took.

      very bad, practically NOTHING compared to the needs and arsenals of the 12 millionth Russian army captured by traitors
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      And if they had the support of the people, no money and no weapons would help the Bolsheviks.

      There was support, because without industrial centers, arsenals, funds, Russia fought with national traitors for as long as 4 years.

      and then the Bolsheviks, in wild fear, destroyed and exiled, deprived of their rights- Millions of people.
      And the elections (that is, precisely the elections, not pornography) were canceled altogether, the PEOPLE were so wildly afraid, These are FACTS, if that.

      You people-NEVER, in any election, NEVER -NEVER elected. This is also a fact.
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 11 August 2019 13: 43 New
        +4
        "There was support, because without industrial centers, arsenals, funds, Russia fought with national traitors for 4 whole years." - Are you in the heat of the moment, or is it so customary for you - regardless of common sense?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 11 August 2019 14: 29 New
          -8
          Quote: mat-vey
          There was support, because without industrial centers, arsenals, funds, Russia fought with national traitors for 4 whole years. "Are you in the heat of the moment, or is it customary for you - in spite of common sense?

          The fact is given.
          Does your "common" sense not accept it?
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 11 August 2019 14: 36 New
            +7
            Where is the fact? Besides empty words or anything ...
            PySy - Tunic English,
            Shoulder strap french
            Japanese tobacco,
            Ruler of Omsk ......
            The work of contemporaries.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 11 August 2019 14: 45 New
              -5
              Quote: mat-vey
              Where is the fact? Besides empty words or anything.

              I repeat:
              without industrial centers, arsenals, funds, Russia fought with national traitors for 4 years. "

              Can you refute? No? no....
              Quote: mat-vey
              Shoulder strap french
              Japanese tobacco,
              Ruler of Omsk .....
              The work of contemporaries ..

              Yes Yes:

              Lenin is sitting on a birch,
              Holds a sickle and a hammer
              And his "friend" Trotsky
              Blowing from the front without a tangle.


              Also -Creativity of contemporaries.
              1. mat-vey
                mat-vey 11 August 2019 14: 53 New
                +5
                "Without industrial centers, arsenals, funds, Russia fought with national traitors for 4 years."

                Can you refute? No? no...."
                Well, if you tell at least about how the white production of tanks "on the knee" was established, then it will still be possible to "talk" about something ...
                1. Kronos
                  Kronos 11 August 2019 15: 34 New
                  +6
                  Etozh the monarchist, where does he get common sense the funniest thing he glorifies today's Russia, moreover, with the liberal regime
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 11 August 2019 15: 38 New
                    +4
                    Well, it seems that it was intense among the whites with monarchism? So, finally, a completely parallel world turns out ...
                2. Astra wild
                  Astra wild 11 August 2019 16: 30 New
                  +4
                  Olgovich and I are at opposite poles and let him not think to charm me WILL NOT WILL! But in fairness, remember where the main industrial centers of Ingushetia were? Now let's see, where is the "cradle" of the white movement?
                  "White production of tanks on the" knee "adjusted" You do not remember the story well: the tank "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin" is assembled in Krasny Sormovo on the model of the French Renault.
                  PS
                  Olgovich, in vain he sneers about the song: "English uniform", I have read "Quiet Don" for a long time, but even now I remember how the Cossacks tried on English uniforms
                  1. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 11 August 2019 16: 45 New
                    +5
                    According to the history that I remember, the British put the tanks to the Whites, they also trained specialists. This is to the question about: “without industrial centers, arsenals, means, Russia fought with national traitors for 4 years.
                    "But in fairness, remember where were the main industrial centers of Ingushetia?" - are you talking about Donbass and the Urals?
                    1. Astra wild
                      Astra wild 13 August 2019 21: 58 New
                      0
                      And how many factories could produce tanks there?
                    2. mat-vey
                      mat-vey 14 August 2019 14: 35 New
                      0
                      It primarily produced what tanks are made of ... What iron do you know?
              2. Olgovich
                Olgovich 11 August 2019 21: 40 New
                -2
                Quote: mat-vey
                if you tell at least about how the white production of tanks "on the knee" established, then it will still be possible to "talk" about something ...

                what knees and in what connection with the subject under discussion?
                I presented the FACTS. You refute them, I WILL ASK again, can you? NO
                1. mat-vey
                  mat-vey 12 August 2019 14: 47 New
                  +1
                  I refute - without knowledge of military affairs and almost completely destroyed remnants of the economy, the Bolsheviks defeated the traitors of Russia who entered into an agreement with foreign interventionists in four years.
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 12 August 2019 15: 16 New
                    -2
                    Quote: mat-vey
                    Refute - without knowledge of military affairs and almost completely destroyed remnants of the economy, the Bolsheviks in four years defeated the traitors of Russia who entered into a conspiracy with foreign interventionists.

                    And WHAT they must refute, have already forgotten? belay lol
                    This:
                    "Without industrial centers, arsenals, funds, Russia fought with national traitors for 4 years."

                    And what are you talking about? fool

                    PS: National traitors are those who FOREVER gave the THREE countries to the German-Turkish invaders, fed them gold and bread, and this was when no other invaders smelled. Chop on the nose-knot!
                  2. mat-vey
                    mat-vey 12 August 2019 15: 25 New
                    +1
                    Do you know what FOUR YEARS are?
  • Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 11 August 2019 15: 40 New
    +6
    Quote: Olgovich
    almost EVERYTHING thought so: the elections showed it

    Are you a contemporary of those years that speak for ALL? Have you been authorized to do this?
    Quote: Olgovich
    it's obvious that? Besides your delirium?

    Your nonsense is obvious, yes. And for the peasants at that time, the loss of land received under the white power was obvious.
    Quote: Olgovich
    Show me these "fighters" in the first SNK

    Those. are red only in SNK? And only in the first?
    And for example, here (the list is far from complete):
    1. Balanin, Dmitry Vasilievich
    2. Baluev, Pyotr Semenovich
    3. Belkovich, Leonid Nikolaevich
    4. Vasiliev, Fedor Nikolaevich
    5. Voyshin-Murdas-Zhilinsky, Ippolit Paulinovich,
    6. Voronov, Nikolai Mikhailovich,
    7. Danilov, Nikolai Alexandrovich,
    8. Dolgov, Dmitry Alexandrovich,
    9. Zayonchkovsky, Andrey Medardovich,)
    10. Klembovsky, Vladislav Napoleonovich
    11. Mikhnevich, Nikolai Petrovich
    12. Olokhov, Vladimir Apollonovich
    13. Polivanov, Alexey Andreevich
    14. Usakovsky, Evgeny Evgenievich
    15. Shuvaev, Dmitry Savelyevich,
    16. Lechitsky, Platon Alekseevich;
    17. Litvinov, Alexander Ivanovich
    18. Tsurikov, Afanasy Andreyevich
    19. Brusilov, Alexey Alekseevich;
    20. Manikovsky, Alexey Alekseevich
    21. Kuzmin-Karavaev, Dmitry Dmitrievich,
    22. Mehmandarov, Samed-bey Sadikh-bey oglu,
    23. Velichko, Konstantin Ivanovich
    24. Apukhtin, Alexander Nikolaevich;
    25. Baiov, Konstantin Konstantinovich
    26.Baltic, Alexander Alekseevich
    28. Bratanov, Vasily Nikolaevich;
    29. Butovich, Vasily Vasilievich;
    30. Vitkovsky, Vasily Vasilievich,
    31. Genishta, Nikolai Ivanovich;
    32. Glinsky, Nikolai Sergeevich;
    33. Gutor, Alexey Evgenievich,
    34. Disterlo, Nikolai Alexandrovich,
    35. Dobryshin, Alexander Fedorovich,
    36. Dobryshin, Philip Nikolaevich,
    37. Egoriev, Vladimir Nikolaevich,
    38. Zakharov, Pyotr Matveevich;
    39. Iskritsky, Evgeny Andreevich,
    40. Istomin, Nikolai Mikhailovich;
    41. Kanshin, Peter Pavlovich;
    42. Karpov, Vladimir Kirillovich;
    43. Kozlovsky, Stepan Stanislavovich,
    44. Korolkov, Georgy Karpovich,
    45. Korulsky, Alexander Nikolaevich,
    46. ​​Leo, Nikolai Nikolaevich,
    47. Lyubomirov, Pavel Petrovich,
    48. Maksimov, Nikolai Sergeevich;
    49. Reliable, Dmitry Nikolaevich,
    50. Nesterovsky, Alexander Ivanovich,
    51. Novikov Alexander Vasilievich,
    52. Novitsky, Vasily Fedorovich,
    53. Ogorodnikov, Fedor Yevlampievich,
    54. Parsky, Dmitry Pavlovich,
    55. Petrovich, Sergey Georgievich;
    56. Podgursky, Fedor Alexandrovich,
    57. Potapov, Nikolai Mikhailovich,
    58. Rodkevich, Nikolai Alexandrovich;
    59. Svyatsky, Vladimir Nikolaevich,
    60. Selivyachev, Vladimir Ivanovich;
    61. Sivers, Nikolai Nikolaevich,
    62. Snesarev, Andrey Evgenievich,
    63. Sukhomlin, Semyon Andreevich,
    64. Taube, Alexander Alexandrovich,
    65. Teleshov, Mikhail Nikolaevich;
    66. Tyulin, Mikhail Stepanovich;
    67. Freiman, Alexander Konstantinovich,
    68. Khamin, Nikolai Alexandrovich,
    69. Tsikhovich, Yanuari Kazimirovich,
    70. Cherkasov, Pyotr Vladimirovich,
    71. Scheideman, Georgy Mikhailovich
    72. Scheideman, Sergei Mikhailovich,
    73. Schulze, Nikolai Karlovich;
    74. Schetkin, Nikolai Osipovich;
    75. Vakharlovsky, Vsevolod Nikolaevich;
    76. Zabudsky, Grigory Alexandrovich;
    77. Ipatiev, Vladimir Nikolaevich;
    78. Pozoev, Leon Avetikovich
    79. Tikhonravov, Konstantin Ivanovich;
    80. Shulga, Nikolai Vasilievich;
    81. Yakubinsky, Peter Vasilievich;
    82. Zubarev, Fedor Ivanovich;
    83. Kirpichov, Neil Lvovich;
    84. Koreyvo, Vitold-Cheslav Simforianovich;
    85. Bagration, Dmitry Petrovich;
    86. Vatatsi, Vladimir Alexandrovich;
    87. Vostrosablin, Alexander Pavlovich;
    88. Mokasey-Shibinsky, Grigory Grigoryevich;
    89. Himets, Vasily Alexandrovich;
    90. Chelyustkin, Nikolai Mikhailovich;
    91. Chernavin, Vsevolod Vladimirovich,
    92. Shikhlinsky, Ali-Aga Ismail-Aga oglu,

    Quote: Olgovich
    very bad, practically NOTHING compared to needs

    Krasnov, however, called the German aid "active". Another thing is that this really was not enough for the whites: "The Germans helped with weapons, but they avoided helping with live force," and "Without the Germans, the Don will not be free of the Bolsheviks."
    Quote: Olgovich
    without industrial centers, arsenals, means-

    There were also industrial centers, arsenals, funds, "active" (according to Krasnov) and "huge" (according to Wrangel) aid abroad ... There was no support from the Russian people, who saw the whites as their enemies and national traitors.
    Quote: Olgovich
    And the elections (that is, precisely the elections, not pornography) were generally canceled, they were so wildly afraid of the PEOPLE,

    Yes, since 1996 it has been. Just why in the past tense? The people of today are still wildly afraid. And no wonder - they are not "the same".
    And YOU people really NEVER, in any elections, ANYWHERE -NO choose. Yes, a fact.
    1. Kronos
      Kronos 11 August 2019 16: 02 New
      +6
      Yeah, the monarchist is modestly silent that the tsar several times the Duma dispersed his unsettling and the Vlasovites in 1993 dispersed their unsettling advice
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 22: 35 New
      -4
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Are you a contemporary of those years that speak for ALL? Have you been authorized to do this?

      Sclerosis?
      It :
      Quote: Sugar Honeyovich
      But only at that time very few thought so.
      WHO wrote on behalf of ALL of those contemporaries, eh?
      And contemporaries TOLD their word at the ELECTIONS that I just REPEATED. Got it?
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      And for the peasants at that time, the loss of land received under the white power was obvious.

      You are a peasant of 17 years, the third time I ask? No? So what?
      The peasant chose his power-US.
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Those. are red only in SNK? And only in the first?

      We are about FRONTIERS. And they were in the top leadership of the Bolsheviks-WAS NOT at all, unlike the whites
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      And for example, here (the list is far from complete):
      1. Balanin, Dmitry Vasilievich
      2. Baluev, Pyotr Semenovich
      3. Belkovich, Leonid Nikolaevich

      One was an "inspector" (no one), the other was rotted in prison by "friends" (also NOBODY in the Red Army), the third disappeared without a trace (also no one in the Red Army). etc.
      Do not be ashamed to put with the leaders at the front of the white?
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Krasnov, however, called the German aid "active".

      nothing compared to the arsenal of 12 mil army captured by traitors
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      There were industrial centers, arsenals, facilities

      false is dull and stupid
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      There was no support for the Russian people, who saw their enemies and national traitors as white.

      Do not dare to speak on behalf of the people, I’m writing for the hundredth time! The people in the ELECTIONS said a word
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      Yes, since 1996 it is.

      Nope, since 17, then there were NO elections. Or would you dare, after all, to declare "elections" under the Bolsheviks?
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      The people of today.

      belay With you, there was NO one except the Communist Party, forgot?
      Quote: Sahar Medovich
      And YOU people really NEVER, in any elections, ANYWHERE -NO choose. Yes, a fact.

      Your complete bankrupt-NEVER, in any election, NOBODY, NEVER -You choose, for you mortally afraid people's choice and deprived him of this right
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 12 August 2019 07: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Olgovich
        WHO wrote on behalf of ALL of those contemporaries, eh?

        You are constantly writing. And constantly lying.
        Quote: Olgovich
        The peasant chose his power-US.

        Yes, I did. Socialist-Revolutionaries and Bolsheviks. And then, when white wanted to challenge his choice, he confirmed it with weapons in his hands. Fact.
        Quote: Olgovich
        One - "inspector" (nobody)

        Inspector and teacher - no one else. And others were commanders and commanders. Do not be ashamed to lie ... so inept?
        Quote: Olgovich
        false is dull and stupid

        Pure truth. For some, very unpleasant. negative
        Quote: Olgovich
        Do not dare to speak on behalf of the people

        Do not dare to speak on behalf of the people! The people did not give you the right to do so!
        Quote: Olgovich
        Or do you dare to declare "elections" under the Bolsheviks

        And not only. I still dare to declare that twice two - four. Under the Bolsheviks, yes, there were democratic (that is, sovereign) elections. Although (but rather just because!) That there were no parties other than the CPSU. The fact is undeniable in principle!
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 12 August 2019 10: 28 New
          0
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          You are constantly writing. And constantly lying.

          NEVER — give examples, liar: I only REPEAT that I have accepted the PEOPLE in elections.
          You, on his behalf, are constantly clicking, examples are given.
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Yes, I did. Socialist-Revolutionaries and Bolsheviks.

          And I chose many others, see. list of deputies of the CSS
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          . And then, when white wanted to challenge his choice, he confirmed it with weapons in his hands. Fact.

          what do you have belay The Bolsheviks dispersed the People’s Parliament, and the Whites Fought for US, cut the knot-on nose!
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Inspector and teacher - no one else.

          Which one of the teachers I have quoted is a liar? So, clowns at a dance-for extras.
          The same Brusilov ..... chairman of the organization committee .... pre-conscription cavalry training. laughing Shame .....
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Pure truth. For some, very unpleasant

          Lies, except chatter, NOTHING can be said in response to the FACT
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Do not dare to speak on behalf of the people! The people did not give you the right to do so!

          Give an example, a liar.
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Not only. I still dare to declare that twice two - four. Under the Bolsheviks, yes, there were democratic (that is, sovereign) elections.

          Dare, i.e. generally slipped down to the level of denial of that, twice two - four. They weren't AT ALL. Parties and their members are physically destroyed. When there is ONE "candidate" in the ballot, it is called PROFANATION and HYPOTHENE and speaks only of wild fear kpssa
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          Although (but rather just because!) That there were no parties other than the CPSU. The fact is undeniable in principle!

          Certainly, a fact: the election did not exist.
          1. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 12 August 2019 15: 44 New
            +1
            Give examples, liar? With great pleasure. The bottom line is the following are your statements:
            1. The whole huge industrial base, the arsenals of the 12 millionth army, the country's money, were in the hands of the Bolsheviks, and "the whites started from scratch."
            In fact, besides the Bolsheviks and Russian whites, a lot of weapons and ammunition went to anyone: Finns, Ukrainians, etc. The whites in Kazan seized the gold reserve (and successfully traded it).
            2. That the Bolsheviks unleashed a civil war. In fact, their opponents.
            3. That the Bolsheviks won solely due to such factors as “wild, unprecedented terror in the world, unscrupulous lies and deceit, bestial cruelty”. In fact, all this was done by whites, therefore they lost. Against the background of white terror, red was almost invisible.
            4. Well, as I said, it’s a lie that there were no free elections in the USSR. Just there they were. And the authorities there were very afraid of popular discontent.
            In addition to direct lies, you distort a lot. It is about such things that they say: "Half-truth is worse than a lie."
            examples:
            1.
            Quote: Olgovich
            White fought for the US

            SOME white and SOME time. Chop it on your nose. Moreover, not all whites fought even for “united and indivisible Russia”. There were people who wanted to separate from her.
            2.
            Quote: Olgovich
            And I chose many others

            Well, if one of the five is “many,” then of course ...
            3. With tsarist generals in the Red Army. They named three names and as if that were all true.
            4.
            Quote: Olgovich
            The same Brusilov ..... chairman of the organization committee .... pre-conscription cavalry training

            Against the backdrop of the colossal - 10 times! - Reduction of the army, even this should be considered an appointment of extreme importance. While hundreds of thousands of front-line soldiers were fired as a citizen, Brusilov, almost the entire civilian of the house who was sitting at home, was appointed out of whomever! And then he became the inspector of the cavalry with the task of restoring the horsemen - at that time one of the most important strategic materials. That is, not just in an important, but in an important position! Do you not know IT? Shame! Just with some Tramnik!
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 17: 51 New
    +2
    Quote: Olgovich
    And the elections (that is, precisely the elections, not pornography) were canceled altogether, the PEOPLE were so wildly afraid, These are FACTS, if that.

    While the elections were held according to the Soviet system, decent people worked in the government, they were selected in advance. All nominees were discussed in labor collectives, at party and trade union meetings, but as soon as the so-called alternative elections were made during perestroika, they turned into pornography, all the trash that aggravated socialism and the USSR crept into the Soviets.
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 August 2019 19: 02 New
      0
      Quote: Alexander Green
      All nominees were discussed in labor collectives, at party and trade union meetings.

      Yes, okay, it will make you laugh what you compose.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 19: 08 New
        0
        Quote: bober1982
        Yes, okay, it will make you laugh what you compose.

        I am a witness to this, 15 years of experience in production, of which two years in working positions. But did you work in production at that time?
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 11 August 2019 19: 13 New
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          But you were working in production at that time?

          I served in the army, the main thing was to throw the ballot in a box, it was encouraged - so that as early as possible, so in the morning there was always a crush, and for whom they voted - as they say, for whom it was necessary, they voted for that.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 21: 58 New
            0
            Quote: bober1982
            I served in the army

            In principle, before the elections, you also had to have regimental, divisional or army meetings (conferences), where future deputies or their proxies should speak before you and in case of criticism and rejection of the candidate, the territorial party body should nominate another candidate.
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 22: 40 New
      -2
      Quote: Alexander Green
      While the elections were held according to the Soviet system, decent people worked in the government, they were selected in advance.

      1.If there were NO elections in the system, what is wrong with you? There was no choice
      2. WHO selected? fool Is this a joke? Read WHAT is "election"
      Quote: Alexander Green
      All nominees were discussed in labor collectives, at party and trade union meetings.

      Read what "ELECTION" is
      Quote: Alexander Green
      But, as soon as during the perestroika they did, the so-called alternative elections, so they turned into pornography, all the trash that penetrated socialism and the USSR crept into the Sovchety.

      Trash-YOUR production, another, did not exist.
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 23: 18 New
        -1
        Quote: Olgovich
        Trash-YOUR production, another, did not exist.

        Are you also our production?
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 13 August 2019 08: 05 New
          -1
          Quote: Alexander Green
          Are you also our production?

          Russian.
          And all the supreme leading trash-EBNY-YOURS.
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 13 August 2019 16: 45 New
            0
            Quote: Olgovich
            Russian.
            And all the supreme leading trash-EBNY-YOURS.

            You don’t feel Russian, but with EBN you have a lot in common, just twin brothers.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 14 August 2019 09: 56 New
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Green
              You do not feel Russian

              Atrophied sense organs, see.
              Quote: Alexander Green
              but with EBN you have a lot in common, just twin brothers.

              I have never been a Communist Party of the Soviet Union, but you and him are brothers: in party, behavior, "education", habits, methods yes
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 14 August 2019 12: 41 New
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                Quote: Alexander Green
                You do not feel Russian

                Atrophied sense organs, see.

                The fact is that the Russians are not so angry.
                Quote: Olgovich
                I have never been a Communist Party of the Soviet Union, but you and him are brothers: in party, behavior, "education", habits, methods

                And here you are wrong. EBN, like you, who were offended by the Soviet regime, he worked to decompose it, like you, only he was more active, but then you were sitting in the gap and holding a stone in your bosom. And only now you are a little bolder.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 14 August 2019 13: 09 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  The fact is that the Russians are not spiteful.

                  I agree, therefore, it is clear that you are not Russian
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And here you are wrong.

                  Right, I'm not a kpssnik.
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  EBN, like you, who were offended by the Soviet regime, he worked to decompose it, like you, only he was more active, but then you were sitting in the gap and holding a stone in your bosom. And only now you are a little bolder.

                  What was there to mess up? Everything collapsed with the complete indifference of all.

                  what is it worth that they can decompose ... how to pronounce ... a couple of people?

                  I was sitting in the gap (in the USSR Armed Forces at construction sites), and then you, on a horse, with a saber, where did you fail? Do not see even the tip of the budenovka from the swamp lol request
                2. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 14 August 2019 17: 00 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  The fact is that the Russians are not spiteful.

                  I agree, therefore, it is clear that you are not Russian

                  I’m just not spiteful, but you ....

                  Quote: Olgovich
                  Do not see even the tip of the budenovka from the swamp

                  Visit the site
                  http://bolshevick.org/category/ukrainskoe-otdelenie-vkpb/
                  and see.
                3. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 15 August 2019 09: 30 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  I’m just not spiteful, but you ....

                  From the side, you know better. Do not know this either?
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  Visit the site
                  http://bolshevick.org/category/ukrainskoe-otdelenie-vkpb/
                  and see

                  We discussed the glorious days of the Communist Party, not today.
                4. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 15 August 2019 17: 00 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  We discussed the glorious days of the Communist Party, not today.

                  And I have been on the Bolshevik platform since those times, I continue this line today.
                5. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 16 August 2019 09: 11 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Alexander Green
                  And I have been on the Bolshevik platform since those times, I continue this line today.

                  Where were you in 91g - that’s the question, if it’s not clear!
                  Something you can not see was near the Kremlin, waving a party card
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 11 August 2019 16: 41 New
    +1
    Sakhar Medovich, you sarcastically remarked: "If they had the support of the people, no money would help the Bolsheviks."
    It is desirable to correct the nickname: "Sugar Edkovich", a joke
    1. Sugar Honeyovich
      Sugar Honeyovich 11 August 2019 18: 07 New
      0
      Thank Astra
    2. Olgovich
      Olgovich 11 August 2019 22: 43 New
      -4
      Quote: Astra wild
      Sakhar Medovich, you pointed out caustically: "if they had the support of the people

      They had the support of the people, see. results of popular elections, not slaughter, in which 5% of the population participated
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 12 August 2019 06: 58 New
        +3
        Quote: Olgovich
        They had the support of the people

        80% of the vote - for the socialist parties - white support? You will not get bored! It’s a pity that white people don’t hear this ... fool
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 12 August 2019 10: 39 New
          -3
          Quote: Sahar Medovich
          80% of the vote - for the socialist parties - support for whites?

          Certainly: elections in the USWhite movement program - WITHOUT prejudging its results.
          What is the will of the people, it will be so.

          You don't know that either? Disgrace ......
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 20: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            You don't know that either? Disgrace ......

            What do you all disgrace? Pay attention to yourself, your posts are all messed up, it speaks of your shame! Your crazy nonsense has already tired everyone.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 August 2019 07: 59 New
              -1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              What do you all disgrace? Pay attention to yourself, your posts are all messed up, it speaks of your shame!

              belay lol
              And your pluses are about your "mind"! ?fool lol laughing
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Your crazy nonsense has already tired everyone.

              Did you deny something? No, you are NOT ... lol can lol
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 13 August 2019 16: 42 New
                -1
                Quote: Olgovich
                Did you deny something? No, you are NOT ...

                Oh, you’re already speechless!
          2. Sugar Honeyovich
            Sugar Honeyovich 13 August 2019 04: 50 New
            +1
            Quote: Olgovich
            What is the will of the people, it will be so.

            That is, if the people again chose the Bolsheviks, the whites would say: "Let it be so! The voice of the people is the voice of God!" fool
            How White reacted to the will of the people was well described, for example, by P.G. Grigorenko.
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 13 August 2019 08: 01 New
              0
              Quote: Sahar Medovich
              That is, if the people again chose the Bolsheviks, the whites would say: "Let it be so! The voice of the people is the voice of God!"

              1. WHAT is the matter with you ?! The people of the Bolsheviks NEVER chose!
              2. Yes, EVERYTHING is decided by the Popular People's Union-when do you remember, finally, how to drive it to you?
              1. Sugar Honeyovich
                Sugar Honeyovich 13 August 2019 14: 17 New
                0
                Quote: Olgovich
                The people of the Bolsheviks NEVER chose!

                Except as in 1905-07 and in 1917-21. and sometime after that. Your next lie.
                Quote: Olgovich
                EVERYTHING is decided by the Popular

                Not at all. The Soviets decided a lot.
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 14 August 2019 10: 10 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  Except as in 1905-07 and in 1917-21. and sometime after that.

                  In detail:

                  - the dates of the elections, where the Bolsheviks won, the list of participating parties, the "winning" percentages - the election results, the percentages of their opponents, the election system (general, equal, direct, free, etc.) - ON THE TABLE, a liar!
                  Quote: Sahar Medovich
                  Not at all. The Soviets decided a lot.

                  The Soviets fully supported the CSS, including the Bolsheviks: ignoramus: see the 1st Congress of Soviets and the corresponding decree of the Council of People's Commissars (one of the first!).

                  When only the Bolsheviks got together in the elections, then only they screamed about something else ....
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 14 August 2019 12: 54 New
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    When only the Bolsheviks got together in the elections, then only they screamed about something else ...

                    Stop lying already. The Bolsheviks never deceived themselves at the expense of the elections; they were always aimed at the revolution.

                    After the seizure of power, they could cancel the elections in the CSS, but the Bolsheviks went to them to show the people the fallacy of this path. The Constituent Assembly, having rejected the Decrees of the Second Congress of Soviets, discredited itself. It turned out to be unnecessary to anyone, even Kolchak sent his Komuch to prison and then shot him, and only you continue to sob about the Constituent Assembly.
                  2. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 14 August 2019 13: 36 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Stop lying already. Bolsheviks never deceived themselves at the expense of elections

                    You are lying, read Ilycha, an ignoramus: elections were given exceptional significance
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    After the seizure of power, they could cancel the elections in the CSS, but the Bolsheviks went to them to show the people the fallacy of this path.

                    Could not: they would be erased into powder. They completely supported the elections, see their decree. About the fallacy before the election, prove
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    The Constituent Assembly, rejecting the Decrees of the Second Congress of Soviets,

                    Decrees were adopted BEFORE the decision on them CSS, ignoramus.
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    even Kolchak put his Komuch in jail and then shot, and only you continue to sob about the Constituent Assembly.

                    he did not have his own commander, and he did not shoot anyone from the commander.

                    PS why don't you know ANYTHING? How much can you enlighten? am
                  3. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 14 August 2019 17: 04 New
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    PS why don't you know ANYTHING? How much can you enlighten?

                    Your last phrase is covered with an angry imp. Again angry, but also say that you are Russian.
                  4. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 15 August 2019 09: 27 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    Your last phrase is covered with an angry imp. Again angry, but also say that you are Russian.

                    You crushed the factsthat you can’t object to.
                  5. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 15 August 2019 16: 58 New
                    0
                    Quote: Olgovich
                    You are crushed by facts that you cannot object to.

                    If I'm crushed, then why are you freaking out?
                  6. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 16 August 2019 09: 17 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Alexander Green
                    If I'm crushed, then why are you freaking out?

                    My friend, I just ....... FUNNY, finally understand! lol laughing

                    What other feelings can cause full .... bankruptarguing about his success? lol Also pity, of course ....
  • bukhach
    bukhach 12 August 2019 21: 57 New
    0
    So it’s true, but Hitler was defeated under a different banner near Krasnoye, and the current one served the Germans together with Vlasov. Our history, I mean Russia, is so contradictory that you wonder!
  • Rwmos
    Rwmos 11 August 2019 07: 22 New
    +2
    Anarchists
    Makhnovtsy) In the center - Fedosy Schus. By the way, as an illustration to the paragraph above, the chief of staff Makhno Belash is a communist)))
  • Aviator_
    Aviator_ 11 August 2019 10: 18 New
    +4
    Across the country, there were many categories of people who could become natural allies for white officers. From part of the Cossacks to the bourgeoisie, wealthy peasants and the old bureaucracy.

    Part of the Cossacks, the bourgeoisie, and the peasants, who were "prosperous" lived well only because there was a mass of people serving them. And it was this people who did not want to serve them, even in the name of a "constituent assembly"
  • Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 11 August 2019 12: 40 New
    +3
    Question to the author.
    The signature in the article’s photograph
    The same Maroussia Nikiforova
    Oh, here is the same photo, but they write that it Maria Klimova (legendary Murka)
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/kulturologia/legendarnaia-murka-kem-na-samom-dele-byla-marusia-klimova-5d01665ef6fb2600b0ea41c4
    Who is right?
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 11 August 2019 19: 04 New
      0
      Ah, this is a good statement of the question, plus.
  • mat-vey
    mat-vey 11 August 2019 13: 04 New
    +2
    "The Whites put forward what seemed to be the most legitimate slogan: to restore the Constituent Assembly dispersed by the Bolsheviks." - KOMUCH ?????
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 11 August 2019 15: 16 New
      +2
      Precisely, that "so it seemed" to them. But in reality, the Constituent Assembly was not needed by anyone. And later they completely forgot about her. Was Denikin going to Moscow under the slogan "All power to the Constituent Assembly"?
      1. mat-vey
        mat-vey 11 August 2019 15: 24 New
        +1
        Duc VUS like and without a quorum was when it was. Well, almost immediately.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 11 August 2019 15: 46 New
          0
          Essentially. Another talker, unable to solve a single pressing issue.
          1. mat-vey
            mat-vey 11 August 2019 16: 04 New
            +1
            If only a "talker", they would "put things in order" with the White Czechs. Or am I mistaken?
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 11 August 2019 20: 52 New
              +1
              Well, yes, a very bloody "order", the people who wanted to do good, for some reason did not understand these "benefactors" and went after the Reds.
  • Astra wild
    Astra wild 11 August 2019 16: 04 New
    0
    Timur, you have an interesting job and it will still have to be re-read. It seems to me that the title is somewhat blasphemous: any war is blood and suffering, and civil war is many times worse. How can human torment be streamlined? I may be emotional, but is it possible to talk about human suffering without emotion
  • M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 12 August 2019 05: 16 New
    +2
    That's right, only one amendment. The Communists (Bolsheviks) did not intend to "build a socialist society" at that time; it will be after the Great Break. They wanted to build a base for the world proletarian revolution. This is a common misunderstanding.
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 12 August 2019 20: 33 New
      +1
      Quote: M. Michelson
      The communists (Bolsheviks) were not at all going to "build a socialist society" then; this will be after the Great Turning Point

      I believe that you are not quite right here. IN AND. Lenin theoretically substantiated the possibility of building socialism in a single country before the Great October Socialist Revolution, and the Bolsheviks began socialist transformations immediately after the Soviets took power. It is only true that everyone expected that the rest would follow our revolution. And so it happened, uprisings broke out in many countries, but they were crushed. Here Trotsky got out with his permanent revolution, to which the Bolsheviks have nothing to do.
  • Seal
    Seal 14 August 2019 13: 58 New
    0
    Quote: Dalny V
    It’s fundamentally wrong. The Third Reich in 1939 (and even more so in 1938, if we take the Czechoslovak section i as a reference point) was not at the peak of form. He reached the peak by the end of the 41st-mid-42nd.
    Is not a fact. At the time of the attack on the USSR, the Wehrmacht had 3 troops, 800 in the Luftwaffe, 000 in Kriegsmarin, 1 in the Waffen SS and 680 in the reserve army. The Wehrmacht had a total strength of 000 troops (w / s) as of June 404. For the operation of Barbarossa, Germany sent 000 people. of the ground forces, 150 from the Waffen SS and approximately 000 from the Luftwaffe.
    By July 1943, the total number of the Wehrmacht was 6 w / s. Of these, 815 were on the Eastern Front, 000 in Finland, 3 in Norway, 900 in Denmark, 000 in Western Europe, 180 in Italy and 000 in the Balkans.
    By April 1944, the total number of the Wehrmacht was 7 v / s, of which 849 on the Eastern Front, 000 in Norway and Denmark, 3 in Western Europe, 878 in Italy, 000 in the Balkans.

    That is, the Wehrmacht peak fell rather in the middle of 1943-beginning of 1944.

    In 1941, German industry produced 12 thousand aircraft,
    In 1942 - 15 thousand
    In 1943 - almost 25 thousand
    In 1944 - more than 40 thousand, including the serial production of jet aircraft.
  • Seal
    Seal 14 August 2019 14: 00 New
    +1
    We must not forget the factor of Germany and Austria-Hungary. And also the strongest surge of nationalism on the outskirts. And not only on the outskirts.
  • Rodokon
    Rodokon 26 August 2019 19: 00 New
    +1
    Is it not a shame for this author to write nonsense about self-sacrifice under the picture of "The Scum's Campaign", when these white bastards sacrificed all of Russia to its eternal Western enemies and Japan, became lackeys of the invading invaders, cannibal terrorists, destroying "their own people" with particular cruelty? And then, when these "white" bandits helped foreign invaders to plunder the country, killed and tortured millions of people, including women, old people and children, their owners threw them away as used item # 1 and they scavenged from their people, robbing churches. to which Prince Lvov then, indignant at their evil deeds, said that because of this filth Belodermovskaya now in the French commission shops are the masterpieces of our art, stolen by white marauders.
    And it is understandable why these cattle, this "elite" one went against Russia - they wanted to regain their life as parasites, to fatten and glamor at the expense of the starvation of Russian children, and who would be in power they did not care, if only they felt good as before ... But they cannot be called Russians in any way, because a Russian person, like the Decembrists and Bolsheviks, cannot be happy when someone around is bad.
  • Dzungar
    Dzungar 11 September 2019 18: 57 New
    0
    World wars, waged, as a rule, by large states, begin at the peak of the form of their armed forces. Then they are replenished by inexperienced mobilized, lowering the overall level. Military products are becoming closer to the concept of ersatz. Food is getting worse.
    Yes, yes, of course .... In the Great Patriotic Soviet military products every year became more and more "ertsats" and "ersats" .....