Europe from the window of the bus. The Unthinkable 2

202
On the field Tanks rumbled
The soldiers went to the last battle,
A young commander
Carried with a broken head.
A blank hit the tank.
Goodbye, dear crew!
Four corpses near the tank
Complement the morning landscape.
Soviet military song "Tanks rumbled across the field." It is considered popular


To the West and back on the bus. To begin with, a certificate from Wikipedia, which, as you know, knows everything or almost everything, although not always at the proper level. And yet. We read: "Operation" Unthinkable "(Eng. Operation Unthinkable) is the code name for two plans (offensive, then defensive) in the event of a military conflict between, on the one hand, the British Empire and the United States, and, on the other hand, the USSR, developed in the spring in the summer of 1945 of the year. Both plans were developed on the instructions of Prime Minister Winston Churchill by the Joint Planning Headquarters of the British War Cabinet, in the deepest secrecy, even from other headquarters. ” Readers of VO love to cite this plan as an example of the treachery of Western allies. However, in reality there is nothing of the kind. Just foresight and state wisdom. Always, as you know, only yours are betrayed, and story He knows many examples. So Churchill decided to hedge himself on the same occasion and did the right thing. It’s just that this plan has been made public, but our plans to continue the advance to the Atlantic Ocean are still classified. Indeed, a huge part of our documents on the war remains a mystery behind seven seals, and it is supposed to open it only ... in the 2045 year. However, now we’ll be talking about something completely different ...




The BT-7 tank maneuvers the ditch. But did he overcome it?


Imagine that you are riding in a comfortable bus through the territory of modern Poland, Germany, Austria, and then you get the idea that it might happen that our tanks again rush to the same places to the West. Well, you never know what, right? It seems that we do not have a reason for this, but after all, were we preparing to wash our boots in the waves of the Atlantic Ocean? We prepared, and even wrote more than once, about how our T-80, capable of refueling at any gas station, would rush along the highway there to the West and in three would reach Brittany. It was so? It was! Did such plans exist in our General Staff? They should have existed, otherwise for what there people would receive ranks and salaries. Everything needs to be foreseen! Because 41 should not be repeated. But how can a tank breakthrough be realized in the next operation ... well, let's say, let's call it The Unthinkable 2? Let's look at all the pros and cons.

Europe from the window of the bus. The Unthinkable 2

High-speed tank BT-7, lined in the fields


As you know, in the era of the USSR, our country before the war with Hitler had more tanks than all other countries of the world combined. Where did they all go then, we won’t find out here, only to note that there were a lot of them. The Warsaw Pact had even more tanks, and then the frontier of advanced tank formations was very close to West Germany. Now there is none of this.


German soldiers visiting the Soviet heavy tank T-35, lined up on the highway Verba village - Ptichye village (Ukraine)


Tanks can move both on rough terrain (but not on any), and on the highway. The experience of recent local wars shows that it is the highway that is preferable in all respects. Especially if the army has high-speed wheeled vehicles with artillery comparable in power to tank. France has a lot of such cars, and why, understandably. There is a beautiful road network and nearby are the same roads in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Spain.


Soviet heavy tank KV-2 abandoned in Zolochev (now Lvovskaya street) during the withdrawal


Tanks that move through fields and forests, force meridional rivers and bypass numerous swamps cannot be developed at high speed. Fuel consumption will be increased. And it will be necessary to bring him up for something. There are no gas stations in the forest.


Tank BT-7 at the road near Vyazma. High speed did not save him!


So again the highway. Beautiful western highways, of which there are a lot. But the trouble is, there are also a lot of concrete bridges crossing these highways. What are they like? Oh, these are structures of very different designs, which usually rely on concrete supports. Rows of one, two, three, four, and finally five pillars that stand under the bridges in one or two rows. The supports are very different: rectangular solid concrete blocks (you think why such a thickness of the support is under a small, in fact, bridge), round columns - five in two rows between the carriageways. One column, installed directly in the middle of the six-lane highway on the “island” - in short, the bridges there are for every taste.


Tanks on the streets of Grozny, 1995 year


The retaining walls are also different. There are vertical, lined with stone. There are sloping and also with stone cladding.

Highways themselves are also frequent, especially in Austria, Italy and Switzerland pass over bridges. And the highway there dive into the tunnels. From Monte Carlo to Genoa there are so many of them that I lost counting a dozen. And many are very long. That is, from a military point of view, we are faced with ideal obstacles for the enemy’s motorized equipment moving westward along these highways. It is enough to blow up a couple of these tunnels and bridges and ... you can get to the same Genoa and Marseille only by sea, and this is unrealistic from the word at all.


And this is a wrecked tank on a flat terrain. Also Chechnya ...


It is difficult to say whether the builders of these bridges provided for the early mining of these tunnels, but personally, I would ... foresee. I would have put explosives into the arches right at the time of construction and would have brought the button for their detonation into the briefcase of the Prime Minister or Minister of Defense. “Russians are coming” - and bang-bang, the road is closed!


Georgian Т72В in North Ossetia, 2008


But back to perpendicular bridges. I am not a specialist in mine-blasting, but it is obvious that, in the event of an offensive by enemy tanks along the highway, it is enough to bring down such a highway or pedestrian bridge on the carriageway of the road under it to completely block any traffic on it. To do this, you need to undermine its supports - one, two, four, six, ten, and blow up the bridge itself near its retaining walls with directional charges, so that it collapses down and tightly clogs the passage. The enemy tanks simply will not be able to remove this barrier. There will not be enough shells to shoot, but to move ... they will be able to move them, but only if they have special equipment with drop-down ramps. Such as to allow tanks to cross this bridge. That is, one bridge will need two such ramps. And there will be an exceptionally many bridges on our way, as it was already emphasized above. This means that not only tanks and missile and artillery anti-aircraft cover systems will have to go as part of the assault columns, but also such vehicles. And in large numbers. Because any hitch at such a collapsed bridge will play into the hands of the enemy and will make it possible to inflict rocket and bomb strikes on the equipment crowded on the highway. Well, the undermining of all bridges will make highway roads for all types of equipment simply useless and force it to crawl through fields, forests, mountains and rivers, through minefields, under fire from ATGMs, combat helicopters, drones and pre-dug tanks, not to mention artillery and RSO. Such a defense can be suppressed only by using nuclear weapons. weaponbut ... it is ruled out because it will immediately lead to a global nuclear conflict, in which there will simply be no winners. That is, today tanks cannot defend the defense of the Western allies in Europe through forests and fields. Well, and the roads, as you can easily see, are easy to make impassable, and even turn them into traps for vehicles that hit them.


Padded Ukrainian armored vehicles on the highway


So, striking in the European theater of war both in the central (Poland, Germany, France) and the south (Poland, Austria, Italy, France, and then Spain still lies there, and the road to them lies through the Pyrenees), care should be taken to ensure that our equipment moves ... along the highway and at maximum speed, and so that the adversaries crossing their bridges cannot undermine. And here again, an interesting question arises: are they mined right now or not? Because if mined, then all efforts to prevent their undermining are doomed to failure. If not, then ... the attack of tanks and infantry fighting vehicles on highways should be preceded by a raid of air assault helicopters to the entire depth of the operation, even if it will be several thousand kilometers. Many bridges, many helicopters and many landing groups. All of them should be landed near bridges and tunnels with at least 10 people, equipped with supplies of food, ammunition and communications.


Damaged tank in the forest. Dynamoreactive armor didn’t help him either.


The task of these groups is simple: to prevent the destruction of the bridge and keep it until the approach of our military units! They should be equipped with air defense systems, ATGMs, grenade launchers and machine guns. Combat helicopters must be assigned to the groups, taking off as soon as a request for fire support comes from one or another group. That is, again, there should be many such helicopters. And the actions of the landing groups and the helicopters supporting them must be rehearsed in advance during the maneuvers.


Padded tank T-64 APU


As you can see, the task of both a “preemptive” and a preventive strike by Russian troops on a modern European theater of operations is a task of exceptional complexity. Without a doubt, our military experts have all this in mind, at least they should have, well, at least as the very visionary and very cautious Mr. Churchill. Because it was not without reason that there was a saying that the army is usually best prepared for the past war, but not for the one that it will need to lead now or in the future. I would very much like, given all the above, that these words would remain so with words!


But it could be a highway to Warsaw or Berlin ...


To be continued ...
202 comments
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  1. +17
    13 August 2019 15: 14
    Carefully, carefully pronouncing the words, Sherbak sang on the motive of a miner's song about a young horse-drawn horse:
    Motors flames burn,
    And the tower is licked with tongues.
    Destiny, I accept the challenge
    With her hand shaking.
    We will be extracted from the wreckage,
    Raise the frame on your hands,
    And the volleys of tower guns
    They lead us to the last journey
    And telegrams will fly here.
    To relatives, acquaintances to notify,
    That their son will never return
    And she won’t come to stay ...
    In the corner, the mother-old woman will cry,
    The father wipes off a tear with his hand,
    And dear does not know,
    Which tanker was the end.
    And there will be a dusty card
    On the shelf of forgotten books,
    In tank form, with shoulder straps,
    And he is not her fiancé anymore.
    Farewell, Marousia dear,
    And you, KV, my brother,
    I will not see you again,
    I lay with a broken head ...

    Victor Alexandrovich Kurochkin
    In war as in war
    1. +63
      13 August 2019 15: 48
      Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
      I am not an expert ...

      Shpakovsky, who had deflected the army, imagined himself to be the General Staff and is making plans for the military capture of Europe ...
      It is worth paying attention to the thrown details. In my opinion, the next portion of Russophobia from the specified author.
      1. +4
        13 August 2019 15: 54
        Everything will be like F. Dick's in "Second Model"!
        Maybe they have completely devastated the enemy trenches and will soon take over for us, eh? - the major grinned.
        “One of the robots, such as those with appendages, climbed into the bunker last week with the Asians,” said Captain Weimar, “and managed to finish off a good platoon of soldiers before they managed to get rid of it.
        “How do you know that?” - Hendricks turned to him.
        - I was told about this ...
        “Moonbase, sir!” - the communications officer shouted at that moment.

        We will reach the English Channel, and then Elon Musk will invent "screamers" and screw them to the moon!
        And that’s it. everyone will die!
        1. 0
          17 August 2019 19: 59
          Let's get to the English Channel

          Already reached a long time ago, every 5 elite real estate in Britain was bought by Russians.
          1. +2
            17 August 2019 20: 54
            So they didn’t get there, but already crossed the English Channel.
      2. +17
        13 August 2019 20: 41
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        Shpakovsky, who had deflected the army, imagined himself to be the General Staff and is making plans for the military capture of Europe ...

        I agree to all 100. This painting of tasks, goals and other nonsense of puberty touches. A kind of literate .... feel
      3. AUL
        +2
        13 August 2019 21: 56
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        Shpakovsky, who had deflected the army, imagined himself to be the General Staff and is making plans for the military capture of Europe ...

        So he, as it were, on the contrary, dissuades him from this! True, we were not going to seem to be!
        1. +14
          14 August 2019 12: 42
          Shpakovsky dissuades from a preemptive (!) Strike. They say - "don't you dare, you will all be blown up in tunnels and shot on the roads", and most importantly - "in no case use nuclear weapons, it is not kosher, it can kill good people."
          And to "not attack" the "terrible and beautiful" Europe exactly until it is ready and attacks itself - suddenly and treacherously, as always. And in no case use nuclear weapons !!!
          You need to "humble yourself, repent and die" ...
          Or maybe THAT, what Shpakovsky is so afraid of and is the key to success?
          Of course, not tank breakthroughs in tunnels and overpasses, but what he fears most for his adored ones. Yes, yes - it is the unlimited use of nuclear weapons in all its varieties, including tectonic and causing mega-tsunamis.
          It is UNLIMITED.
          And the leadership of the West should know about it.
          For only the FEAR of complete annihilation acts on them sobering.
          And the tanks will go later.
          Unless otherwise.
      4. +12
        14 August 2019 09: 00
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        It is worth paying attention to the thrown details. In my opinion, the next portion of Russophobia from the specified author.

        I did not find Russophobia, but arguments about "insurmountable" fields (!) And forests of Europe, ideally licked, flat, provided with roads and clearings, cause bewilderment.

        Generally strange thoughts of the author during ... a peaceful trip to Europe ... by bus .. belay recourse
        1. jjj
          +7
          14 August 2019 13: 03
          When I was traveling from St. Petersburg through Minsk, Warsaw, Berlin to Hamburg, I came to the conclusion that the European territories are very friendly for our tanks. And there are many gas stations, and different roads, and the surroundings are even. And our tank units were already walking there.
          An old joke about the fact that if all the Soviet people suddenly went to Europe, then in tanks, it’s already at the genetic level
          1. +4
            14 August 2019 13: 14
            Quote: jjj
            what European territories are aboutvery friendly for our tanks

            the same observations, traveled several times to Europe.

            There are even forests with clearings, roads, clean, not to mention the fields .....
      5. 0
        20 August 2019 09: 14
        Quote: Nikolai S.
        makes plans for the military capture of Europe ...

        Why do we need it now? Former "allies" in the Department of Internal Affairs amicably, for green candy wrappers, spread to NATO. Even the union republics, restored and developed after the Great Patriotic War at the expense of Russia and its people, did not give a damn about it ...
        So why should we go to the English Channel, whom and why free?
        If someone is combing his hair and wants to fight, then just fight back with all, as mentioned earlier, proletarian hatred and sparing nothing, as in the past war all cultural heritage was preserved throughout Europe!
      6. The comment was deleted.
    2. +5
      13 August 2019 16: 51
      By the way, Viktor Kurochkin has a book called "Iron Rain". It is not as famous as the story "In War, As In War", but it is also very strong. About the initial period of the Second World War and also about the tankers.
    3. 0
      14 August 2019 09: 53
      This song was one of the favorites in my student dorm, Then I managed to read a book
  2. +35
    13 August 2019 15: 21
    No need to continue. What for?
  3. +33
    13 August 2019 15: 22
    “Operation“ Unthinkable ”is the code name of two plans (offensive, then defensive). Both plans were developed on the instructions of Prime Minister Winston Churchill by the Joint Planning Headquarters of the British War Cabinet. Readers of VO love to cite this plan as an example of the treachery of Western allies. However, in reality there is nothing of the kind. Just foresight and state wisdom. Always, as you know, only their

    Bravo, Vyacheslav - so you agree that in developing the first plan, Britain betrayed the USSR. But at the same time, you obviously suffer from mental bifurcation: betrayal by Britain is state wisdom, and betrayal of Britain is unconditional deceit on the part of the USSR, USA, China, India, further down the list laughing
    1. +26
      13 August 2019 15: 44
      As Poland, on the eve of September 1, it should be doubly pleasant to recall the manifestation of state wisdom by Britain and France when these states refused to fulfill their allied obligations to Poland after the attack of the Third Reich.

      "To betray in time is to foresee" is a universal European slogan laughing
    2. 0
      18 August 2019 23: 59
      The Supreme has never had any illusions about the allies.
  4. +4
    13 August 2019 15: 27
    The question of why we march to the Atlantic by storm remained unspoken. Mass tank wedges ended their epic with the advent of MLRS and anti-tank systems.
    1. +2
      13 August 2019 17: 58
      Marching, and even over bridges that fall (as if it is easier in a swamp). It looks like either the genius plan of the Generalisimo, or the TV series "Popadantsy".
    2. +2
      14 August 2019 11: 50
      When the tank army enters the breakthrough of the front line, the ATGMs will not help, but you still need to get from the MLRS (and then have time to reload until you cover them), their efficiency is not very good. And then the tanks alone do not fight, enemy fire is carried out to the entire depth of the front-line operation by all means and means. In reality, the Soviet Army would have endured. Normal fighters are only Germans, the French are in doubt, Italians - the Dutch and other Greeks they need it. The Americans would not have time to transfer troops to Europe if they advanced from the borders of the GDR. In fact, if you manage to break the resistance of the Americans and Germans, the rest are not a problem. Not always the quantity goes into quality. But this is history, now from the point of view of borders we are in a state of 1942-43, this is a problem. Moreover, normal fighters Poles and Germans (all) are against us, the rest are not threats. Americans will not get their hands dirty. If we seriously consider the creation of the European Army, they will try again in ten years (in the third).
      1. +1
        14 August 2019 14: 55
        ATGM tank breakthrough enters front line not help

        It may not help much, but there will be many victims among the attackers.
        and you still have to get from the MLRS (and then have time to recharge until they’ve covered) the efficiency of them is not very.

        The drone leads to accumulations of equipment and personnel. The same Tornado strikes at 90 km ... A smaller hurricane ... Nitshey’s efficiency is not very good - several dozens of tons of explosives with fragments onto an area of ​​tens of hectares suddenly flies from the clear sky! And shelter is almost impossible.
        In reality, the Soviet Army would have endured.

        In reality, the Kyrgyz Republic will carry us from all the nearest carriers, while we will be crossing bridges and fords.
        Americans wouldn’t have time to transfer troops to Europe

        And they don’t need to. They need a mess in Europe and preferably up to northern Africa and India. If it spreads to China and the South Asian countries, they will be in chocolate in general. I think no need to explain why.
    3. -1
      14 August 2019 21: 15
      Mass tank wedges ended their epic with the advent of MLRS and anti-tank systems.

      Is not a fact. After processing the TNW area, there will not be many who will use RZSO and ATGMs.
      1. 0
        15 August 2019 06: 33
        And why do we need terrain after TNW processing? Well, tanks will pass, they have protection, and then what? Decades to wait until all isotopes fall apart?
  5. +5
    13 August 2019 15: 27
    The opinion is curious, but in this case, the need for the defender to leave the same bridges and tunnels, not all, of course, to maneuver his forces and means, while exploding others, is wedged into the logic of the aggressor and the defender, but the aggressor just has to find such strategically important points and in every possible way try to capture them. It was already, the Remagen bridge - when the Allied tanks made their way to him in an unbelievable time and suddenly. And just without tanks, then he would not be kept.
    PS Strategically important bridges are not mined in peacetime, but everything is provided for this - there is a mining scheme, places for explosive charges are provided, and even a low-current network at the facility can be used to undermine.
  6. +7
    13 August 2019 15: 31
    .. "Well, let's call it" Unthinkable 2 "?
    why so many letters ?? .. and about anything ..
    Isn't this the point: "The British operation" Unthinkable "was planned for the summer of 1945, and its goal was the lightning-fast defeat of the Red Army units .."
    Only now on the contrary do you want? It smells like something bad. ..
  7. +10
    13 August 2019 15: 33
    Mdaaa ... I have to postpone the last throw to Lisbon. And why among the illustrations there are no ISs in front of the Brandenburg Gate?
  8. +11
    13 August 2019 15: 33
    "We all die!!!" "Don't go west, Russians! We'll uuh!" and other crap ...
    Strong feeling of translation of an imported article "from over the hill". Like Brussels to order. :)
    There is one thing, but, for some reason, our enemies stick their noses at us, and not vice versa.
    1. +13
      13 August 2019 16: 02
      Quote: akarfoxhound
      There is one thing, but, for some reason, our enemies stick their noses at us, and not vice versa.

  9. +4
    13 August 2019 15: 48
    God, what tanks .... in the world there are 15K nuclear bombs and missiles. Or more ..... 3-6 hours and hello to the Neolithic.
    1. Alf
      +5
      13 August 2019 15: 58
      Quote: Keyser Soze
      God, what tanks .... in the world there are 15K nuclear bombs and missiles. Or more ..... 3-6 hours and hello to the Neolithic.

      What do you think, if our tanks had rushed to Europe in 80, NATO troops would have immediately launched a nuclear strike? They, too, are not alternatively gifted, for they understand perfectly well that the very first use of nuclear weapons will cause a "domino effect" and the history of civilization will end in a couple of hours. In WW2, all countries had chemical weapons, but no one dared to use it.
      1. +4
        13 August 2019 16: 19
        And what do you think, if our tanks would rush to Europe in the 80, would the NATO troops immediately launch a nuclear strike?


        Well, obviously I think so. A modern non-nuclear war between great forces is impossible. And what to catch Russian tanks in radioactive Lisbon is not very clear ...
        1. +6
          13 August 2019 16: 36
          No, not right away.
          During the NATO Allied exercises in Europe, when the threat of a breakthrough by the Airborne Forces of the NATO main defensive line, they switched to the use of tactical nuclear weapons
          1. +5
            13 August 2019 16: 50
            in Europe with the threat of a breakthrough by the airborne forces of the main defensive line


            Probably, I am not familiar with the NATO documents of that time, but if tactical has gone, then the strategic take-off is not far off. The Caribbean crisis was experienced by chance, but there were people in the USA who wanted to poke a button right away. And the Russian troops in Cuba, like the submarines, had permission to use atomic weapons at their discretion. So I think that we won’t survive the tank attack on Europe or Moscow.

            Although who knows - I have a Metro at hand ... I’ll take Kalash and I will wet the mutants ... laughing
            1. +1
              13 August 2019 16: 54
              In your opinion, read on the internet about the teachings of "Able Archer-83" hi
      2. 0
        13 August 2019 16: 52
        Chemical weapons did not have such a damaging property as nuclear, secondly all these armada of tanks are destroyed by aviation and cruise missiles that the Israelis have repeatedly done, for example, or now in Syria
        1. Alf
          +1
          13 August 2019 18: 33
          Quote: Kronos
          secondly, all these armada of tanks are destroyed by aircraft and cruise missiles

          And did anyone cover these armada?
          1. +1
            13 August 2019 21: 39
            In 1973, during an Egyptian attempt to advance deep into Sinai, 80 of the 250 EMNIPs lost in that attack were generally destroyed by Hale Avira helicopters. The Egyptians tried to cover them with aviation, but lost the air battles to the Israelis, whose planes were on duty in the air.
            1. Alf
              +5
              13 August 2019 21: 44
              Quote: Krasnodar
              In 1973, during an Egyptian attempt to advance deep into Sinai, 80 of the 250 EMNIPs lost in that attack were generally destroyed by Hale Avira helicopters. The Egyptians tried to cover them with aviation, but lost the air battles to the Israelis, whose planes were on duty in the air.

              I agree, but the aviation of Egypt-73 and aviation and air defense of the USSR-80 in the GSVG are "somewhat" different things.
              1. +1
                13 August 2019 21: 48
                What is better than the Egyptians - of course, that the training of Hale Avir pilots was better than the American - was written in the States, but how it would be in reality (Glory to Gd that was not) is unknown.
      3. +3
        13 August 2019 23: 49
        Quote: Alf
        the very first use of nuclear weapons will cause a "domino effect"


        The difference between ICBMs and tactical nuclear weapons is that they will only learn about the second after the fact. For example, they reported to Brezhnev that the Minutemans flew out of America. It is clear that in half an hour Moscow and Brezhnev himself will not be. He has nothing to lose, he presses the red button, if so, even if there will be no more New York, Washington and Nixon. But if Brezhnev was informed that a Davy Crockett was fired at Belfeld and a tank company was destroyed, why should he be sad, does he have a lot of tank companies?

        The limiting factor on the use of tactical nuclear weapons would most likely be: for the Soviets, the need to preserve the road infrastructure, plus the propaganda effect, we say, we are delivering the proletariat. And for NATO, the same psychological factor is obvious, especially for West German soldiers, I think it’s not very happy for them to fire at their territory.
    2. +3
      14 August 2019 09: 51
      ... yes, and we are again in the Neolithic! But unlike the past Neolithians, we will know the milestones of the development of the past civilization of this planet. Though it will please!
    3. 0
      14 August 2019 21: 20
      God, what tanks .... in the world there are 15K nuclear bombs and missiles. Or more ..... 3-6 hours and hello to the Neolithic.

      Do not exaggerate, a rollback to a maximum of the 18th century and then not for long.
  10. +13
    13 August 2019 15: 51
    Good afternoon, Vyacheslav Olegovich. hi
    Strange, however, thoughts visit you on vacation. smile
    It is difficult to disagree about Churchill, as well as about the plans of the USSR to reach the Atlantic. But about the rest ...
    The number of natural obstacles in Europe over three quarters of a century is unlikely to have increased significantly, but the number of roads and bridges has become much greater. smile
    However, if you mean that in three days we do not have time to reach Brest, I will not argue - we will not have time. Although, in my opinion, no one, in general, is going to, except for the most repulsed. fool
    And so, in general, any obstacle can become insurmountable, but only if it is steadily and skillfully defended. Under Peter there is a rivulet called Nazia. Replay, every ten meters - chicken ford. So her two and a half years neither our nor the Germans could pass. Everything is relative. smile
    1. 0
      17 August 2019 20: 27
      Quote: Trilobite Master
      Good afternoon, Vyacheslav Olegovich. hi
      Strange, however, thoughts visit you on vacation.


      Captain45 (Yuri) 5 5 August 2019 17: 52

      +3
      Quote: Kronos
      And where does the operation unthinkable?

      I would venture to suggest, relying on historical facts - Operation Unthinkable was planned by W. Churchill and the plan was to liberate Europe from the Red Army with the use of Wehrmacht units that surrendered to the Anglo-American troops. Perhaps, a colleague of "Caliber", under the guise of auto excursions, proposes to carry out a massive transfer of Russian citizens to Europe and thereby confront her with the fact that it is too late to drink Borjomi Gerry and Pan, Russia mulberry - henda hoh! laughing

      Well, a little was mistaken, he doesn’t offer buses, but to visit Europe on tanks. It’s also nice, a new kind of bla-bla-car. Chur my idea, I have money from it.
  11. +7
    13 August 2019 15: 52
    It is difficult to say whether the builders of these bridges provided for the early mining of these tunnels, but personally, I would ... foresee. I would have put explosives into the arches right at the time of construction and would have brought the button for their detonation into the briefcase of the Prime Minister or Minister of Defense. “Russians are coming” - and bang-bang, the road is closed!

    And here it is not necessary to guess and think out anything. In the Soviet ZVO of the late 80s there was an article about engineering barriers on the roads of Western Europe - EMNIP, using the example of Germany. It stated that all the major bridges on the roads under the project had mine wells for placing explosive charges in the threatened period. On the autobahns, there were rows of manholes closed by hatches for the installation of troughs. And the engineer-sapper units of NATO had a standard scheme for installing charges on the roads, which ensured the creation of a PT-ditch, which was difficult even for tracked vehicles, after undermining. And of course, the article mentioned the notorious nuclear mines ...
    1. +2
      13 August 2019 16: 12
      I remember that article in the ZVO, after I read it, I immediately thought - and to use Soviet autobahns on Soviet tanks, because farmland and forests are the most suitable for Russian armored vehicles imprisoned on the roads.

      But the Soviet Army didn’t even plan to storm the Alps and Pyrenees after the tank skating rink of the flat territories of Germany, Denmark, Benelux and France, since in this case the mountainous Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Spain and Portugal would themselves declare unconditional surrender.
      1. +6
        13 August 2019 17: 57
        Quote: Operator
        I remember that article in the ZVO, after I read it, I immediately thought - and to use Soviet autobahns on Soviet tanks, because farmland and forests are the most suitable for Russian armored vehicles imprisoned on the roads.

        Tanks need a rear. We need ammunition and fuel. Repair needed. And the rear of the division is large and wheeled. And pushing a convoy with shells or fuel through the capillaries of local roads is hemorrhoids, especially considering the dimensions of the driveways and the carrying capacity of the bridges.

        I remember how we at the department laid a conditional route for one S-125 division. Between the positions - 20 kilometers in a straight line. And about 70 km along the roads - because on one road we do not fit under the bridge, on the other road - we risk drowning the UNK and diesel engine along with the bridge.
        1. -1
          13 August 2019 18: 42
          It was necessary to lay in a straight line: the author posted test pictures of Polish farmland in front of suburban cottages - he really pulls to drive caterpillars around all this European splendor laughing
          1. 0
            14 August 2019 10: 36
            .... harmful you, however! ...
      2. Alf
        +1
        13 August 2019 18: 40
        Quote: Operator
        the most for domestic armored vehicles imprisoned on the roads.

        Off-roading means increased fuel consumption + increased risk of breakage + reduced speed. A person can go through any mud and potholes, but "for some reason" prefers to walk along the road.
        1. 0
          13 August 2019 18: 46
          Europian farmland = our roads laughing
          1. Alf
            +5
            13 August 2019 18: 53
            Quote: Operator
            Europian farmland = our roads laughing

            Something tells me that this is not Russia.



            1. +3
              13 August 2019 19: 01
              You simply did not look on the sides of suburban European roads: the farmland located there is a wonderful tank track up to 100 meters wide.
              1. Alf
                +1
                13 August 2019 19: 41
                Quote: Operator
                You simply did not look on the sides of suburban European roads: the farmland located there is a wonderful tank track up to 100 meters wide.

                But why did the above go in the wrong direction? laughing
                1. +4
                  13 August 2019 20: 12
                  In peacetime it will cost a lot to roam around farmland and roadside cottages, and in wartime the same thing is absolutely free - the passage of a tank battalion along the roadside line of low-rise buildings creates an excellent paved road for wheeled vehicles (you can not be afraid of nuclear mines) bully
                  1. Alf
                    +1
                    13 August 2019 20: 15
                    Quote: Operator
                    In peacetime it will cost a lot to roam around farmland and roadside cottages, and in wartime the same thing is absolutely free - the passage of a tank battalion along the roadside line of low-rise buildings creates an excellent paved road for wheeled vehicles (you can not be afraid of nuclear mines) bully

                    Have you seen the primer BEFORE the passage of the tank column and AFTER? There are only potholes, and if it’s also through building, then there’s nothing for the wheeled vehicles to do there, if only it is necessary to load the work of the repairmen by the ears.
                    1. -2
                      13 August 2019 20: 19
                      So I also propose to lay a pillar way along the line of cottages laughing
                      1. Alf
                        +1
                        13 August 2019 20: 21
                        Quote: Operator
                        So I also propose to lay a pillar way along the line of cottages laughing

                        Actually, speaking of repairmen, I meant the parts on wheels rembat.
                      2. -1
                        13 August 2019 20: 25
                        There is no problem - in front of the cottages there is a tank battalion, followed by all sorts of self-propelled guns, IMRs and ARVs, then BMP bags and wheeled vehicles closes the column.
                      3. Alf
                        +1
                        13 August 2019 20: 26
                        Quote: Operator
                        There is no problem - in front of the cottages there is a tank battalion, followed by all sorts of self-propelled guns, IMRs and ARVs, then BMP bags and wheeled vehicles closes the column.

                        I will not argue, you know better.
                      4. 0
                        13 August 2019 20: 39
                        In fact, in Poland and Germany in flat areas on farmland there is an ultra-thick network of secondary roads with hard (including grader) pavement - with the aim of operating agricultural machinery in any weather.

                        Therefore, moving around the territory of these countries outside the main roads with battalion tactical groups in wartime will be easy and pleasant (after cleansing with tactical nuclear weapons, of course).

                        The movement of the rear units is possible on non-main public roads with asphalt / concrete pavement after engineering reconnaissance.

                        The main public roads are likely to be mined, incl. nuclear mines.

                        The creation of column roads by destroying low-rise roadside buildings aims to bypass blockages and mined sections on roads.

                        In addition, in the epicenters of nuclear explosions and surrounding areas, instead of low-rise buildings, there will be continuous fields of gravel (see Hiroshima and Nagasaki).
                      5. Alf
                        +3
                        13 August 2019 20: 51
                        Quote: Operator
                        it will be easy and pleasant (after stripping with tactical nuclear weapons, of course).

                        It is unlikely. It is "great" to drive when you know that everything is shining outside, and God forbid, a gap will form somewhere.
                      6. +1
                        13 August 2019 22: 11
                        It’s not a fact that it will glow - with an air explosion of a two-stage thermonuclear charge at an altitude of 1,5 km, radiation, incl. induced, absent.

                        The 100-Ktn charge weighs 100 kg and, therefore, can be used as a tactical special warhead of Smerch MLRS rockets, aircraft missiles and gliding bombs. The radius of destruction of the shock wave is twice as large as that of the 20-Ktn nuclear charges used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

                        And there is also an 250-CTN thermonuclear charge weighing 140 kg with a radius of destruction of 3,5 times larger bully
                  2. 0
                    14 August 2019 10: 38
                    I doubt it very much ...
  12. +11
    13 August 2019 15: 59
    Is this fantasy or just nonsense?
    1. Alf
      +10
      13 August 2019 20: 16
      Quote: turbris
      Is this fantasy or just nonsense?

      Neither one nor the other. This is shpakovsky. "Nobody knows where Benya ends and where the police start."
      1. +3
        13 August 2019 21: 42
        Knowledgeable people said that the police end where Benya begins laughing
      2. +6
        14 August 2019 11: 46
        But having thrown the dermets on the fan, he highpaned for a hundred and fifty comments - over there how people got excited. And their content is unlikely to dissuade our Archistratigus from continuing.
  13. +2
    13 August 2019 16: 00
    JAN 4, 2015
    Switzerland refused to mine its bridges and tunnels in the Alps
    GENEVA, January 3. / Corr. TASS Konstantin Pribytkov.
    Switzerland abandoned the long-term mining of its bridges, tunnels and roads due to a change in defense strategy. This was reported on January 4 by the Swiss Radio and Television RTS (RTS), citing sources in the armed forces of the country.
    According to the publication, the seizure of explosives, laid down in the 70s of the last century at the height of the Cold War, was fully completed at the end of 2014. The demolition of infrastructure and major highways in the Alps was to impede the advancement of the enemy in the event of armed conflict. Mining was carried out in the First and Second World Wars, in which neutral Switzerland did not participate, but was ready to defend itself in the event of an invasion. After World War II, several hundred objects remained mined.
    "Mine-laying strategy is out of date"
    According to information posted on the website of the Swiss Federal Department of Defense, Population Protection and Sports, the strategy of planting permanent mines "is now outdated." In 1991, the seizure of explosives began, due to the changed conditions in the field of international security, as well as considerations of economy. In addition, it became possible to "achieve the same result with mobile means." However, it took the military 23 years to fully complete mine clearance. Such a long period is explained by the complexity of the task and the fact that the army had a limited number of specialists.
    As Gerhard Wiss, a former head of the defense department of the Swiss army, said in an interview with the Basler Zeitung newspaper, in particular, the Saint-Gotthard, Simplonsky and Lötschberg tunnels were mined. In 2001, a fire broke out in the Saint-Gotthard Tunnel, as a result of which 11 people burned and suffocated with smoke. The epicenter of the fire was not far from where the explosives were laid, Wiss said. However, he assured, all necessary security measures had been taken and the mines did not explode.
  14. +15
    13 August 2019 16: 12
    I did not understand what the article was about. Tolley in 2019, Russian tanks to (the English Channel, Lisbon, London?) Will not reach, roofing felts in the 60s, our generals did not understand anything in strategy and tactics! How scary to live, what Russians are aggressive and dumb! The reasoning of a very young man with a very poor knowledge of history and Western books and technically illiterate. It’s good that there are still few such PEOPLE, but if our education continues to be so, then there will be a lot of such, very
    1. +15
      13 August 2019 16: 18
      The author of the article is about 70 years old, a candidate of sciences in the specialty "History of the CPSU", in life - a fighter against the Soviet regime (which he defeated in a specific settlement of Penza) laughing
    2. Alf
      +8
      13 August 2019 18: 43
      Quote: IQ12NHJ21az
      a very young man

      Just Shpakovsky old man, but otherwise you are right. He has some kind of inexplicable caveman hatred for Russia.
      1. +4
        13 August 2019 19: 10
        Quote: Alf
        Quote: IQ12NHJ21az
        a very young man

        Just Shpakovsky old man, but otherwise you are right. He has some kind of inexplicable caveman hatred for Russia.

        Probably Polish roots are affected, although there is one last name from the Pole.
        1. Alf
          +1
          13 August 2019 19: 12
          Quote: Hiking
          Quote: Alf
          Quote: IQ12NHJ21az
          a very young man

          Just Shpakovsky old man, but otherwise you are right. He has some kind of inexplicable caveman hatred for Russia.

          Probably Polish roots are affected, although there is one last name from the Pole.

          This mystery is great.
          1. 0
            13 August 2019 19: 17
            Quote: Alf
            This mystery is great.

            What is another secret? Vyacheslav Olegovich himself said that his grandfather was a Polish general. what
            1. Alf
              0
              13 August 2019 19: 23
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              What is another secret? Vyacheslav Olegovich himself said that his grandfather was a Polish general.

              And how to connect with this HIS statement?

              Quote: Operator
              To you as having to do with Poland

              What kind?
              1. +7
                13 August 2019 19: 35
                Quote: Alf
                What kind?

                And let comrade Shpakovsky himself will say. It seems that his grandfather - a Polish general, his mother - taught the politics of the CPSU, he taught the history of the CPSU ... And at the same time he was selling jeans ... laughing
                1. Alf
                  +5
                  13 August 2019 19: 40
                  Quote: Mordvin 3
                  he himself taught the history of the CPSU ... And at the same time, he sold jeans ...

                  This is what I especially like about some "regime fighters". On even days we teach "the right way", on odd days we do "the right way".
  15. 0
    13 August 2019 16: 23
    . It is difficult to say whether the builders of these bridges provided for the early mining of these tunnels, but personally, I would ... foresee.

    Even as provided.
    Back in Soviet times, I read a large article on this subject in ZVO.
    Special chambers in supports are provided, volumes of explosives and so on are calculated.
    In a threatened period, charges are laid.
    And just under the autobahn in certain places there are such cameras.
    1. +3
      13 August 2019 17: 58
      I look, that article in ZVO was remembered by many. smile
      1. 0
        13 August 2019 20: 58
        Yes, now I read the comments, I saw. smile
        She then made a strong impression on me, although when I first picked up ZVO itself, too, like a revelation, I had not read anything like it before
  16. +3
    13 August 2019 16: 36
    And this is a wrecked tank on a flat terrain. Also Chechnya ...
    The author, as with eyes, glasses ?, but you need to encyclopedia what plain is.
    But back to the perpendicular bridges. I am not a specialist in mine-demolition business, however, it is obvious that in case of enemy tanks attacking along the highway, it is enough to bring down such a highway or pedestrian bridge onto the carriageway of the road below it to completely block any movement on it. To do this, it is necessary to undermine its supports - one, two, four, six, ten, and blow up the bridge itself near the retaining walls with charges of directional action, so that it collapses down and clogs the passage tightly. Enemy tanks simply will not be able to remove this obstacle. There won't be enough shells to shoot, but to move ... they can move them,
    Bridge of the rocky road. In general, class 5-6.
  17. +14
    13 August 2019 16: 37
    The nonsense is not connected. Why is the photo of the broken tanks not clear, and why only Soviet? About that article is also not clear. Why wrote is not clear
    1. Alf
      +8
      13 August 2019 18: 45
      Quote: evgic
      and why only Soviet?

      And at Shpakovsky only Soviet-Russian technology breaks down and is destroyed.
    2. -1
      19 August 2019 17: 12
      A photo "Georgian Tank in NORTH OSSETIA, KARL!", IN NORTHERN !!! "Valiant Georgian Army" stormed Vladikavkaz ???
  18. +8
    13 August 2019 16: 42
    What was that? belay
    1. Alf
      +5
      13 August 2019 18: 45
      Quote: shubin
      What was that? belay

      You never know what on vacation in the morning ghosts.
      1. +5
        13 August 2019 21: 15
        Quote: Alf
        You never know what on vacation in the morning ghosts.

        He only arrived from Italy by bus, probably tired. crying
        1. Alf
          +5
          13 August 2019 21: 16
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: Alf
          You never know what on vacation in the morning ghosts.

          He only arrived from Italy by bus, probably tired. crying

          Yes, and grappa is strong ...
          1. +1
            13 August 2019 21: 20
            Quote: Alf
            Yes, and grappa is strong ...

            In, but I think, why is Vyacheslav Olegovich on the bus traveling all the time? Not only as he goes around drinking establishments. laughing
            1. Alf
              +1
              13 August 2019 21: 21
              Quote: Mordvin 3
              In, but I think, why is Vyacheslav Olegovich on the bus traveling all the time? Not only as he goes around drinking establishments.

              You can’t drive.
  19. +8
    13 August 2019 16: 48
    Can't you cross the highway next to the bridge? And engineer-sapper battalions are not comparable with WWII sappers for equipment. In short, the continuation can not be written.
    1. Alf
      +2
      13 August 2019 18: 46
      Quote: Ros 56
      In short, the continuation can not be written.

      Or else will be, oh, oh, oh!
  20. +5
    13 August 2019 16: 54
    In the first part, the author promised to connect one with the other, but it didn’t work out about anything
  21. +1
    13 August 2019 16: 56
    Eh Churchill, Churchill -
    “Even before the end of the war, when the Germans surrendered in hundreds of thousands, I told Field Marshal Montgomery to ensure that German weapons were collected so that they could then be distributed again to German soldiers and, if the Soviets continue the offensive, act together. ”
  22. +1
    13 August 2019 17: 02
    The Russians, as always, by their existence, FORCE democratic Europeans to come up with different plans to "pacify the Eastern barbarians"!
    repin.info
    BELARUSIAN ENGLISH ALLIES ARMED VERMAHTA FOUNDED SOLDIERS
    This gloomy event went down in the history of the northernmost German land, Schleswig-Goldstein, which borders Denmark, under the name "Hunting for Soviet POWs" - a mysterious hunt, like a legend. . The short but hot battle at the outskirts of Hartenholm has witnesses, but no archives found documents confirming the conduct of a military operation here in early May 1945. There are five graves where the “Russians” who died that morning near the town are buried, but who and why killed them are only versions. What were the names of these soldiers, whose graves are only numbers, no one knows ...
    Strange as it may seem, the former ... Nazi paratrooper tried to disclose the secret of the execution near Hartenholm a few years ago. Today, another Wehrmacht soldier in the past, and now the director of the memorial near Hartenholm, Gerhard Hoch, agreed to tell FACTS about what happened. The eyewitness accounts collected by him and the versions of historians shed gloomy, but nevertheless at least some light on one of the most mysterious events of the end of World War II.
  23. +8
    13 August 2019 17: 04

    Did the author even see a map of the road network in Europe? You can get from Warsaw to Berlin in almost 50 ways. This in Siberia may have one road for 500 kilometers of taiga, and even that is not passable for 9 months a year. And in Europe there is no place to even get lost ... In an hour you will go out onto some road that the Romans began to build there ...
  24. +2
    13 August 2019 17: 11
    What is the article about? The author wanted to go over the tactics of tank attacks on the European theater of war, given the pros and cons?
    1. +6
      13 August 2019 17: 46
      Quote: Elysium
      What is the article about? The author wanted to go over the tactics of tank attacks on the European theater of war, given the pros and cons?

      And the author did not take into account that tanks are far from all that the same GSVG had. He is not a military man in the past, but a "historian" of the CPSU laughing
      1. +4
        13 August 2019 19: 48
        So in the World of Tanks there is no such thing. lol
  25. +5
    13 August 2019 18: 13
    What nonsense !!! fellow
    It was especially killed that the landing should be thrown as far as almost to the English Channel and at each bridge lol
  26. +4
    13 August 2019 18: 33
    I read the article and did not understand anything that Shpakovsky wrote. request
  27. +6
    13 August 2019 18: 44
    Shpakovsky ardent Russophobe.
  28. -10
    13 August 2019 18: 49
    Nevertheless, you read and set the click. That's enough for you!
  29. -6
    13 August 2019 18: 51
    Quote: Operator
    To you as having to do with Poland

    What kind?
    1. +1
      13 August 2019 20: 14
      Surname and stepfather seems to have served in the Polish Army? laughing
  30. -8
    13 August 2019 18: 55
    Quote: akarfoxhound
    Persistent feeling of translation of an imported article "from over the hill"

    Have you personally read a lot of clumpy articles on similar topics?
  31. -6
    13 August 2019 18: 58
    Quote: Trilobite Master
    Strange, however, thoughts visit you on vacation.

    Yes, really ... But thoughts. Judging by some, only words visit the comments ...
  32. -6
    13 August 2019 18: 59
    Quote: K-50
    and at each bridge

    Do you need only some?
  33. -5
    13 August 2019 19: 02
    Quote: Operator
    and the betrayal of Britain is unconditional deceit on the part of the USSR, USA, China, India, further down the list

    And where about this in the material?
  34. +6
    13 August 2019 19: 02
    I read the article and there was a feeling of deja vu ... It was in this vein that Rezun wrote his historical works, aka Suvorov. And also a lover of alternative history, Tom Clancy, who is also a storyteller by the way
    1. +1
      13 August 2019 19: 27
      Quote: Captan78
      Tom Clancy

      Yes, this type bought a guide to naval affairs, and began to compose his verses. Like this one ... Lee Child. He was fired, so he began to write about Jack Reacher. wink
  35. -6
    13 August 2019 19: 05
    Quote: Alf
    and why only Soviet?

    And at Shpakovsky only Soviet-Russian technology breaks down and is destroyed.

    Because the article is about us, not about them. It seems to be easily explained? Or is it still not?
  36. -2
    13 August 2019 19: 06
    Quote: Captan78
    I read the article and there was a feeling of deja vu ...

    Wonderful! So it arose, yes?
  37. -4
    13 August 2019 19: 36
    The defense of Europe is not bridges, but the fact that there is nothing to take there - war is economically disadvantageous. What can the Russian Federation capture from Germany? The company Baer AG? What's the point? She does not produce anything like that. what can produce a Ferraine plant
    1. 0
      14 August 2019 21: 37
      The defense of Europe is not bridges, but the fact that there is nothing to take there - war is economically disadvantageous.

      Any war of annihilation is not economically profitable. But if the goal is simply to put Europe "on the grandmother", then it is enough to creep out the indicative neo-fascist Bantustans of the Baltic states and the Eurogeans themselves will creep in with money in their teeth.
  38. +2
    13 August 2019 19: 37
    The author mixed up the site, publishing his fabrications on VO. IN May, for those who believe in the words of the late Zakharchenko, “we’re going to be in Kiev in three days, and in two weeks near the English Channel.” Well, how to understand, the floor of Siberia is on fire, the floor of Siberia is flooding, in Moscow they piled up, and they still want to zhahnut, so that the whole world in dust.
  39. -5
    13 August 2019 19: 45
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Yes, this type bought a guide to naval affairs, and began to compose his verses

    And composes well? Is it being printed?
  40. -1
    13 August 2019 19: 47
    Quote: kalibr
    To you as having to do with Poland

    What kind?

    Well then, what?
  41. -3
    13 August 2019 19: 49
    Quote: To be or not to be
    Only now on the contrary do you want? It smells like something bad. .

    I want to? Is it clear from the article that I want?
    1. Alf
      +4
      13 August 2019 20: 33
      Quote: kalibr
      Is it clear from the article that I want?

      So we can’t understand. A set of words of a militant technically illiterate Russophobe.
  42. -6
    13 August 2019 19: 52
    Styopa, repeated many times: I am all the same, that Russian, that American, that Chinese .... If smart! Here I have a persistent phobia for fools. I understand, of course, that their 80% of every population plus or minus a number of percent back and forth, and that you won’t be able to beat the lash with a whip. But anyway...
  43. -2
    13 August 2019 19: 59
    Quote: Nikolay S.
    Quote: Vyacheslav Shpakovsky
    I am not an expert ...

    Shpakovsky, who had deflected the army, imagined himself to be the General Staff and is making plans for the military capture of Europe ...
    It is worth paying attention to the thrown details. In my opinion, the next portion of Russophobia from the specified author.

    You forgot to write, Nikolai, how I still won the competition for the best toy for serial production in 1980 on the 110 anniversary of the birth of Lenin, which stood with a poster at a rally in Penza in support of Yeltsin, and also changed my name ... usually you put it all out - and here for some reason only that, ah-ah!
    1. Alf
      0
      13 August 2019 20: 31
      Quote: kalibr
      that stood with a poster at a rally in Penza in support of Yeltsin,

      And some also against the wind .. spit.
  44. +3
    13 August 2019 20: 30
    Why did I read this ??
  45. +7
    13 August 2019 21: 16
    Here one of our sworn friends from that part of the world where the sun sets will read it, let it wring its hands in despair and lament: “What is this done, good people!” Even note liberals in Russia are wondering how much more agile it is to drive tanks to the Atlantic Sea, how much effort is needed for this, and what dangers can lie in wait in this difficult matter!
    And then he will understand that this article was not written somewhere, but on a tourist bus and it will dawn on me: - so that's why insidious Russians come to them! We thought that they admire the beauties, and they thought of everything, damned!
    To impose sanctions against them and not to let Europe suffer so that they get tired on the road, do not write anything horrible, and do not build terrible plans!
    1. 0
      13 August 2019 22: 23
      Do not remember who Suvorov mentioned as "tourists", "inquisitive" and other similar words?))
  46. -8
    13 August 2019 21: 31
    Quote: Jager
    Why did I read this ??

    Why not, why! But because literate! Well, the deep meaning inherent in the written text is not immediately recognized. And sometimes it is never known!
  47. -4
    13 August 2019 21: 32
    Quote: Alf
    And some also against the wind .. spit.

    Okay, they spit ... urinate, and then walk in wet boots. That's what happens ...
  48. -4
    13 August 2019 21: 34
    Quote: Alf
    So we can’t understand.

    Isn't that your personal problem? Even here people were found and quite a lot understood everything correctly. Why do you think that you have been given everything to understand?
  49. -5
    13 August 2019 21: 39
    And what does this have to do with me personally? Maybe your grandfather or father were the scoopers in the cesspool? What does this have to do with you personally? Or do you, Andrei, measure people with a set of letters in their designation? Make no mistake, there has already been such a thing in history ...
  50. -3
    13 August 2019 21: 43
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    And let comrade Shpakovsky himself will say. It seems that his grandfather - a Polish general, his mother - taught the politics of the CPSU, he taught the history of the CPSU ... And at the same time he was selling jeans ...

    How do our people love myths, huh? Now also the grandfather general ... Well, well! And I’ll write you this: “Great minds discuss ideas. Middle minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. ”― Eleanor Roosevelt. There is, however, another version of this saying, in my opinion, more accurate, but there is a word forbidden in VO.
  51. -1
    13 August 2019 21: 47
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    Vyacheslav Olegovich himself said that his grandfather was a Polish general

    Where? But actually I don't mind. If you want it that way, let it be a general. Polish...
  52. -4
    13 August 2019 21: 50
    Quote: Operator
    there is a super-dense network of secondary roads with hard (including grader) surfaces - for the purpose of operating agricultural machinery in any weather.

    They live well, however.
    1. -2
      13 August 2019 22: 27
      Tank-accessible terrain, however laughing
      1. -1
        14 August 2019 06: 22
        I'm talking about paved roads!
        1. +1
          14 August 2019 12: 25
          According to the recollections of tankers from one of the units of the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany, almost every day they drove tanks to a training ground located several kilometers from the garrison. The route passed along unpaved agricultural roads parallel to public roads with asphalt pavement (so as not to disrupt the movement of civil transport).

          The soil was made of loess, so the plume of dust completely covered the tank column. However, no super-duper gauge was developed - naturally, when moving in dry weather (in rainy weather there were no exits to the training ground).

          Therefore, the devil is not as scary as he is painted.
  53. +1
    13 August 2019 21: 52
    Regarding Soviet plans to march to the Atantica. I think that if there were any, the liberal democrats would have told us about it in the 90s. Do you really believe that there are still some secrets left that they haven’t told?
    PS I remember when I was a schoolboy and heard such conversations, they say Zhukov suggested this. It may well be, but a proposal and a plan are slightly different things.
  54. +12
    13 August 2019 22: 27
    This week this is the second article that can be published under the heading “Ostap suffered.” This time, Vyacheslav Olegovich Shpakovsky was promoted to strategist-commander. The hat was clearly not suitable for Senka.
    1. -3
      14 August 2019 06: 23
      Why? 120 comments, almost 10000 views... And did you read the comments? “Why only our tanks”, “Grandfather General”. All that remains is to calculate the % for Pareto's law... Yes?
      1. +4
        14 August 2019 07: 02
        I'm not the owner of the site, so I don't care about the number. I appreciated the content.
        As for the quantity, the current contingent allows it to be achieved in one paragraph. Remember the saying about the finger?
  55. 0
    13 August 2019 23: 59
    On the other hand, with such a system of roads and bridges as you described, one wave of airborne attack is enough to COMPLETELY destroy the enemy’s transport links. Those. it won't reach the tanks. The defending troops will be left without fuel, ammunition and reinforcements; they will not be able to move ANYWHERE, mobilize or do anything. Nowhere at all and nothing at all. At the same time, the economy and supply of cities will collapse. Chaos will reign.
    But I think you underestimated the secondary network of country roads. Yes, key passes, like the one you mentioned in Genoa, are critical. But it was like that three hundred years ago. In this sense, nothing has changed. Therefore, there is no need to worry about our tankers and propose plans with thousands of helicopters. Everything has already been thought out.
  56. +2
    14 August 2019 00: 01
    a raid of air assault helicopters to the entire depth of the operation, even if it is several thousand kilometers.


    Helicopters do not fly thousands of kilometers. And they don’t fly for one thousand. And they don’t fly five hundred kilometers either. 200 km is still possible, but minus the distance they still need to fly to the border, it turns out to be further than 150 km from the border. NATO troops, if we are talking about the 80s, generally did not plan defense closer than 100 km to the border. And there were two regiments directly on the border. The English 4th Hussars on the northern half of the front and the American 11th Armored Cavalry on the southern half. They were supposed to quietly retreat without a fight, causing attacks by Lances and aircraft on accumulations of Soviet equipment at crossings and in other places.
  57. +1
    14 August 2019 00: 30
    Now bridges can be destroyed by precision weapons at distances of hundreds of kilometers. No amount of landings will save you from this.
  58. -4
    14 August 2019 06: 25
    Quote: Bogatyrev
    Everything has already been thought out.

    You reassured me. But... every year winter comes unexpectedly, forests burn, floods occur. You can’t even think of something like this, but here... something like this.
  59. +4
    14 August 2019 07: 24
    It’s hilarious to read the “idle speculation” of armchair strategists
  60. +5
    14 August 2019 07: 42
    These are the pearls that come from sitting on a bus for a long time...
  61. The comment was deleted.
  62. BAI
    +2
    14 August 2019 08: 57
    1.
    It is difficult to say whether the builders of these bridges foresaw the mining of these tunnels in advance, but personally I would... provide for it.

    All large bridges have a vulnerable point - the “heart of the bridge”. A place in which a minimum amount of explosives must be placed for maximum destruction. And before, even special niches were made there for placing explosives.
    2.

    On the field tanks rattled,
    The soldiers went to the last battle,
    A young commander
    Carried with a broken head.
    Soviet military song "Tanks rumbled across the field." It is considered popular

    This is based on a pre-revolutionary miner's song:
    The horns buzzed alarmingly,
    People are running in a thick crowd,
    And the young horseman
    They carry him with a broken head.
    3. I don’t doubt for a second that the General Staff somehow took into account the presence of bridges and tunnels.
  63. -3
    14 August 2019 10: 19
    Quote: BAI
    I don’t doubt for a second that the General Staff somehow took into account the presence of bridges and tunnels.

    You reassured me. But... every year winter comes unexpectedly, forests burn, floods occur. You can’t even think of something like this, but here... something like this.
  64. -1
    14 August 2019 10: 22
    Quote: Undecim
    As for quantity, the current contingent allows it to be achieved in one paragraph. Remember the saying about the finger?

    This is the correct judgment!
  65. -1
    14 August 2019 10: 23
    Quote: mister-red
    Do you really believe that there are still some secrets left that they haven’t told?

    Many archival documents on the Second World War are classified until 2045.
  66. +1
    14 August 2019 10: 52
    We prepared and even wrote more than once about how our T-80s, capable of refueling at any gas station
    Vyacheslav Olegovich! Learn materiel. The power plant of the T-80 tank is a gas turbine engine running on aviation kerosene. T-80UD has a diesel engine. So you can’t fill it up at any gas station. You can, of course, splash the 92nd in extreme conditions if you have a spare engine at hand.
    1. 0
      14 August 2019 11: 37
      Quote: AK1972
      The power plant of the T-80 tank is a gas turbine engine running on aviation kerosene. T-80UD has a diesel engine. So you can’t fill it up at any gas station. You can, of course, splash the 92nd in extreme conditions if you have a spare engine at hand.

      Teach materiel
    2. 0
      14 August 2019 21: 53
      The power plant of the T-80 tank is a gas turbine engine running on aviation kerosene.

      The main advantage of the domestic gas turbine engine is its fuel omnivory. It can run on aviation fuel, any type of diesel fuel, or low-octane gasoline intended for cars. But! The T-80U, the fuel for which must only have tolerable fluidity, is still very sensitive to “unlicensed” fuel. Refueling with non-recommended types of fuel is only possible in a combat situation, as it entails a significant reduction in the service life of the engine and turbine blades.
      So you can refuel at any gas station.
      1. 0
        16 August 2019 12: 14
        Brilliant copy-paste from Wiki. Key phrase "only in combat situations". So I seem to have written that in this case it is advisable to have a spare engine, because... It is unknown how long the resource will last.
        So you can refuel at any gas station.
        The crew is fighting.
        Mechanic:
        - Commander! We're running out of fuel!!!
        Commander:
        -We are leaving the battle, the nearest gas station is 25 km to the north. I hope we can make it.
  67. +6
    14 August 2019 12: 06
    The author must be careful with captions on photographs; it must be taken into account that among readers there are people who distinguish BT-5 from BT-7, T-72 from T-64. Tanks abandoned during the retreat from tanks lost during the attack. And even distinguishing Chechnya from Donbass and South Ossetia.
  68. +5
    14 August 2019 12: 16
    I'm not a mine demolition expert.
    We continue to study the materiel.
    Each tank regiment has an engineer-sapper company (in a division - a battalion, in the army - a regiment). The ISR engineering and technical platoon is armed with a set of heavy mechanized bridge TMM-3 (4 sections on KRAZ vehicles). The bridge allows the passage of tracked vehicles weighing up to 60 tons. The length of the bridge is 40m. Installation time - 72 minutes, tank bridge layer MTU-90: lifting capacity 50t, length 24m, designed for constructing bridge crossings over ditches, dry lands, scarps, counter-scarps, rubble. Bridge installation time - 2 minutes. Let's move on. The IMR-3 engineering clearance vehicle is designed for clearing rubble and track-laying work. It has a universal bulldozer, a blade, a telescopic full-rotating boom with attachments (excavator, grab, concrete breaker), a knife mine trawl with an electromagnetic attachment that allows you to independently make passages in minefields with contact and non-contact way, the BAT-M track-laying machine is designed for the construction of military roads and column tracks. ITV also has a KS-45719-7M truck crane in service. As for overcoming minefields, the ISR has an ISV engineer platoon, one of whose tasks is to search for and clear anti-tank and anti-personnel mines using overhead charges, pulling them off with a cat, etc. This is only in a tank regiment. I will not describe the organization and armament of individual engineer battalions (OSB), regiments (ISP), brigades (OSBR), if you want, you can find it yourself. So, not everything is so sad, Vyacheslav Olegovich. The armored train is standing on a siding.
    1. 0
      14 August 2019 18: 20
      Quote: AK1972
      Bridge length 40m


      It might even be enough for one flight. Narpimer, the enemy is defeated and demoralized, so he is not mining the supports, but the bridge span collapsed due to our own artillery barrage. But that's not the problem yet. Let’s say we overcome one junction, and three kilometers later there is a new one. What should I do, transport sections from the previous one? Well, the tank regiment passed, but what about those behind it? Next should go ozrp, osap, optadn, communications, division headquarters. And most importantly - the division's rear convoys and even more rear convoys of armies and corps, artillery, missile, anti-aircraft missile brigades and various other gigantic quantities of vehicles and cargo. And they all don't have their own prefabricated bridge sections. Either all the tank and motorized rifle regiments take turns leaving their sections on the bridges, and then the offensive proceeds along a thin thread, or they all pass through, take the sections and pontoon bridges with them, and after a hundred kilometers they stop and wait for hundreds of new stationary bridges to be built in the rear. bridges, thus giving the enemy the initiative to mobilize, strengthen defenses and counterattacks.
  69. +1
    14 August 2019 12: 33
    Powerful ideas! The last war is presented perfectly. Is it, as usual, difficult to predict the future?
    Why were wars fought before? I always wanted to take away arable land, deposits, convenient ports and, most importantly, the working population from the enemy! Therefore, the purpose of wars was mainly territorial conquests.
    What will be the point of the upcoming war? On both sides, the main goal is to eliminate the competitor. Here we are, for example. Isn't there enough land for us? Or maybe deposits? Or do we not cut the grass on the side of the roads in order to keep the existing population occupied?
    Well? So here it is. "Russians are coming!!" and the Europeans are blowing up bridges and tunnels. So this is wonderful! We add more vacuum bombs to the ports, add more salt to the warehouses for agricultural products, fortunately they are conveniently huge, in every village these days there are simply no barns. Europeans have a highly integrated economy. So we're just waiting.
    Three to four months, and highly developed Europe loses from a third to half of its population. Those who remain are desperately chopping for a piece of bread. We slowly drive up to the nearest destroyed bridge and announce that those who pull away the barrier (with their hands, there’s no need to transfer fuel) will be fed from the belly. A couple of times. By evening there will be no obstacle! We are moving towards high-tech factories in order to dismantle them for ourselves. All this is accompanied by desperate pleas from the locals for occupation on any terms...
  70. +9
    14 August 2019 13: 13
    Hmmm... it was impossible to read the author without bleeding from the eyes, but this is truly a masterpiece! The author has learned what a tank is, but it seems that he has not yet moved on to studying the equipment of the engineering troops and the staff of the divisions and armies of the SA. It's a pity. Maybe I wouldn’t have to write such meaningless texts.
    And the author does not know the concept of “bridge”. A bridge is over a river. And across the highway there is an overpass. Blowing up an overpass does not create absolutely any difficulties for a typical SA motorized rifle division; a maximum of 15 minutes of fiddling around and off we go. Moreover, the enemy is unlikely to be able to create any serious defense lines around each blown up overpass - this is purely a minor dirty trick.
    Blowing up a bridge is a more serious problem, but at the SA headquarters there were bright heads, and as a rule, they had already made a killing on this during the Second World War, while they were still lieutenants. That is why the post-war Soviet army was better prepared to overcome water obstacles than any other in the world - the equipment of our engineering troops does not shine for the Americans even today. The superiority of our army and the saturation of its engineering equipment have not been overcome by NATO countries, that’s why we shouldn’t blush. These are basic things that you need to Google before writing such articles. I'm not even talking about such complex issues as the assignment of air assault brigades and individual battalions under the SA armies, or about the goals and objectives of the GRU SPN brigades. Everything was done so that not a single bridge would explode. And if it exploded, then the divisions would fly across the rivers without slowing down.
    1. 0
      19 August 2019 09: 20
      A direct example to your comment is the incident of 08,08,08/XNUMX/XNUMX, a division was pushed through the only tunnel at pace and no one had time to blow up anything..
  71. -4
    14 August 2019 13: 30
    Quote: AK1972
    Teach materiel.

    Do you think I don't know this? Author of 6 books on the history of BTT and publisher of the magazine TANKOMASTER? I read about it and that’s why I wrote it.
    1. +7
      14 August 2019 14: 29
      Quote: kalibr
      I read about it and that’s why I wrote it.

      You read, and I served in the IS of the N-th TP, which was just in the eighties with a gas turbine engine. Very capricious engines. In the regiment, only one lieutenant thoroughly understood them - a two-year student who graduated from the Kaluga branch of Bauman. When the second Chechnya began, the tankers refused to fight against them. In the mountains, engines choke, and kerosene, as everyone knows, burns very well from the slightest spark. One tank caught fire right in the box in the second row; the soldiers started it with external launch cables. And all the tanks in the box were equipped with ammunition. It’s scary to imagine what would have happened if it weren’t for the young lieutenant on duty at the park. Using an ARV, he pulled the tank out of the first row, then pulled the burning tank into the middle of the park, after which the ammunition began to detonate. So our armored ones went to chicha, changing to 72nd.
    2. Alf
      +2
      14 August 2019 22: 05
      Quote: kalibr
      Author of 6 books on the history of BTT and publisher of the magazine TANKOMASTER?

      The madam below also had a number of literary works.
      Valeria Ilyinichna Novodvorskaya (May 17, 1950, Baranovichi, Belarusian SSR, USSR - July 12, 2014, Moscow, Russia) - Soviet dissident[1][2] and human rights activist; Russian liberal [3] politician and publicist, founder of the right-wing liberal parties “Democratic Union” (Chairman of the Central Coordination Council) and “Western Choice”.

      Author of the books “Above the Chasm in Lies”, “My Carthage Must Be Destroyed” (a course of lectures given several times at the Russian State University for the Humanities during the rectorship of Yuri Afanasyev[4]), “Beyond Despair”, “Farewell of a Slavic Woman”, “Poets and kings." Member (along with K. N. Borov and G. P. Yakunin) of the editorial board of The New Times.[5] Published in Grani.ru, Ekho Moskvy, and The New Times.

      But this did not stop her from being alternatively gifted.
  72. -1
    14 August 2019 13: 33
    Quote: Alex_59
    read without bleeding from your eyes

    And how much have you lost? The count is probably already in liters. “Comrade Dynin’s blood is all spoiled!”
  73. -1
    14 August 2019 13: 35
    Quote: Mikhail3
    We slowly drive up to the nearest destroyed bridge and announce that those who pull away the barrier (with their hands, there’s no need to transfer fuel) will be fed from the belly.

    Interesting idea. But is everything so simple in life?
    1. 0
      14 August 2019 13: 58
      Good article, Vyacheslav, there is something to think about.
      Your opponents offer either a nuclear strike fool , or a battalion-by-battalion attack - no one remembers what this tactic of dispersing forces and striking with outstretched fingers leads to. To the beating of tank groups and motorized infantry. And any rural road (except for the cost of resources and time) still ends in a tunnel or bridge or...
      The only hope is that they have nothing at all to defend
    2. +1
      14 August 2019 20: 51
      Interesting idea. But is everything so simple in life?
      Do you have anything meaningful to answer? “At the crime scene, the following were consistently discovered: footprints of the criminal’s shoes, his fingerprints, photos, videos, birth certificate, passport, he himself was lying behind the counter, drunk in the smoke. But the inner voice of the investigator stubbornly muttered - not everything is so simple... "
  74. -2
    14 August 2019 13: 45
    Quote: bayard
    Yes, yes - precisely the unlimited use of nuclear weapons in all its varieties, including tectonic and mega-tsunami-causing ones.

    Write to Putin about this! I think so... And quickly so...
  75. +2
    14 August 2019 14: 00
    “Operation Unthinkable” is the code name for two plans (offensive, then defensive). Both plans were developed on the instructions of Prime Minister Winston Churchill by the Joint Planning Staff of the British War Cabinet. The plans remained plans, so the conclusions were disappointing - nothing was going to happen. That's why the defense plan came into being. “The Unthinkable” is, unfortunately, a horror story (((
  76. -4
    14 August 2019 14: 17
    Quote: Tlauicol
    The only hope is that they have nothing at all to defend

    Finally, at least one person thought with his head and not with his ass! The impression is that it was the commentators who drank too much grappa. Almost no one wanted to think. They brought in everything: Russophobia, and “the grandfather of the Polish general,” and “Senka’s hat,” that’s all... I tolerantly cited the words of Eleanor Roosevelt... But I see it was necessary to give a direct Russian version of these words: “ fools talk about people." But the thing is that we have a strange belief in our country that everything is thought out at the top and everyone there knows. We must, yes... We must foresee... Then why do forests burn from year to year? And the article just shows what thoughts might arise in a completely ordinary citizen of the country, who, of course, does not know the plans of the Defense Ministry. But he knows what happened to us before and what happens now. And I don’t want it to be like that. Are things being proposed that are not very reasonable? Well, yes, it may well be... But... there is nothing to count on for an interview with Shoigu. But the theft of... many “amounts” is constantly reported in the same defense structures. And this cannot but worry. And, by the way, another reason to think - the time to shout “we’ll tear everyone apart” has long passed. And those at the top understood this. It needs to reach everyone below.
    1. 0
      14 August 2019 14: 46
      Regarding "thefts" - this is theft, not theft. This action is detected on the count of three. Have you seen how professional auditors work? A day, maximum two, after starting work, they lock themselves in an office with their bosses and poke their noses at them like kittens at “mistakes.” If thieves are deployed in the defense industry, it means someone needs it.
    2. +3
      14 August 2019 16: 32
      and "Senka's hat"
      I'm glad that you remember my allegory.
      there is nothing to count on for an interview with Shoigu.
      I always knew that death from modesty does not threaten you. Although I have never read Shoigu’s articles. Maybe he could have written even worse.
    3. 0
      19 August 2019 09: 51
      Forests are burning in the overpopulated orchards of Athens and California. they burn here every year and burned before us and every year too. Those forests for which local administrations have allocated money from the budget are extinguished on time and quickly, and this year, for example, the governor of the Krasnoyarsk Territory Us was given a life-giving kick (after a lawyer spoke tongue-tiedly about fires) were extinguished twice as fast as the standards... And then it came, after a two-three week pause, the state extinguished its share of fires... Under the “terrible unfree USSR”, the region extinguished ALL fires on its administrative territory, attracting ALL the population of the north of the region.
    4. -1
      19 August 2019 17: 36
      We must foresee... Then why do forests burn from year to year?

      Before this phrase I had a better opinion of you. So they burn EVERYWHERE. Enter in a search engine, in the USA, throughout Europe, in Australia, etc. And here it is more often, since there are MORE forests on the planet. Do you propose to place fire crews from the Ministry of Emergency Situations on every forest hectare? Vyacheslav Olegovich, listen to the opinion of many commentators, do not undertake to plan those issues in which you are not competent. They don’t tell you the main results of the 27th Congress of the CPSU?
  77. -1
    14 August 2019 14: 28
    The writer himself chose a bus for the trip, but he could have traveled in a tank for new sensations. No question, Europe is waiting for Russian tanks and will again rename the “bistro” into “shawarma”, “pancake house”, or something else. This will be followed by billions of raped refugees in the company of German and French women. In fact, European men should not use rear-wheel drive cars. The author did not describe another factor in the seizure of territory - who will feed them all, how to carry food across bridges destroyed by tanks and explosions. And most importantly, why does the Russian state need all this? In the west there are several necessary territories - most of the Baltic states and a third of the territory of present-day Ukraine. Here you can dream up your imagination in this direction.
    1. +1
      14 August 2019 18: 31
      Quote: serg v zapase
      The writer himself chose a bus for the trip, but he could have traveled by tank


      At the beginning of the summer of 1968, Soviet tank officers suddenly received a lot of money en masse and spent it on bus tourist trips around Czechoslovakia. The routes were developed according to individual orders, so that each officer traveled the route that he would soon have to travel on the tank. And also, for those who entered Prague, sets of photographs were made of all street intersections, in the sequence in which they were supposed to pass through them.
  78. -1
    14 August 2019 15: 31
    Quote: serg v zapase
    If thieves are deployed in the defense industry, it means someone needs it.

    Here I am about the same ...
  79. -4
    14 August 2019 16: 14
    Quote: serg v zapase
    I could drive a tank for new sensations.

    I drove a tank when I was editor of TANKOMASTER magazine. In Kubinka...
  80. +3
    14 August 2019 19: 58
    It's a pity! I snatched such a piece of bread from Rezun!
  81. -1
    14 August 2019 21: 02
    Quote: Undecim
    I always knew that death from modesty does not threaten you

    The French say this about modesty: modesty is like underwear - you should have it, but you shouldn’t show it to everyone.
  82. -1
    14 August 2019 21: 04
    Quote: Mikhail3
    Do you have anything meaningful to answer?

    In my opinion, there is nowhere more meaningful.
  83. +1
    15 August 2019 04: 57
    After the description under the photo about “dynamo-reactive” armor, I don’t want to read further)))
  84. -1
    15 August 2019 06: 50
    Quote: AK1972
    You read, and I served in the IS of the N-th TP, which was just in the eighties with a gas turbine engine. Very capricious engines. In the regiment, only one lieutenant thoroughly understood them - a two-year student who graduated from the Kaluga branch of Bauman. When the second Chechnya began, the tankers refused to fight against them. In the mountains, engines choke, and kerosene, as everyone knows, burns very well from the slightest spark. One tank caught fire right in the box in the second row; the soldiers started it with external launch cables. And all the tanks in the box were equipped with ammunition. It’s scary to imagine what would have happened if it weren’t for the young lieutenant on duty at the park. Using an ARV, he pulled the tank out of the first row, then pulled the burning tank into the middle of the park, after which the ammunition began to detonate. So our armored ones went to chicha, changing to 72nd.
    Reply
    Quote

    Very reassuring comment!
  85. +2
    15 August 2019 11: 27
    some kind of icebreaker-2, not an article.
    What is the point of dismantling the march/throw of Soviet light tanks to the Atlantic if the average service life of the vehicles was 180 km before repair? Such a throw was, in principle, impossible on the material base of 39-41.
    T34 for deep breakthroughs became applicable only in 43.
    Well, who needs such fantasies about the pre-war attacks of USSR tanks?
  86. +2
    15 August 2019 12: 04
    Quote: BAI
    All large bridges have a vulnerable point - the “heart of the bridge”. A place in which a minimum amount of explosives must be placed for maximum destruction. And before, even special niches were made there for placing explosives.

    Have you seen enough of this on Discovery?
    There are indeed structures with a weak point where you need to destroy them quite a bit
    but there are also bridges where there is nothing to do without 50 kg of explosives.
  87. -1
    15 August 2019 12: 15
    Quote: yehat
    and who needs such fantasies about the pre-war attacks of USSR tanks?

    Was it about pre-war? Why do you read in a hurry and so inattentively, and, most importantly, immediately rush to write? The principle is simple, however: first we read carefully, then we think, then we write.
  88. 0
    15 August 2019 15: 14
    Quote: Moore
    But having thrown the dermets on the fan, he highpaned for a hundred and fifty comments - over there how people got excited. And their content is unlikely to dissuade our Archistratigus from continuing.

    And for him the main thing is to throw in the “dead cat”, and then watch with pleasure as the audience unanimously discusses its “smell”...! lol hi
  89. 0
    15 August 2019 15: 19
    Quote: Radikal
    the public is discussing

    Smart people discuss ideas, average people discuss events, fools discuss people!
  90. +2
    15 August 2019 17: 20
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: AK1972
    Teach materiel.

    Do you think I don't know this? Author of 6 books on the history of BTT and publisher of the magazine TANKOMASTER? I read about it and that’s why I wrote it.

    Class! This sounds approximately like Ilf and Petrov’s in the novel “12 Chairs”: “...Lyapis went down from the fifth floor to the second and entered the secretariat of the “Machine”. Unfortunately for him, he immediately ran into the hard worker Persitsky.
    - A! - Persitsky exclaimed. - Lapsus!
    “Listen,” said Nikifor Lapis, lowering his voice, “give me three rubles.” "Gerasim and Mumu" owes me a lot of money.
    - I'll give you fifty dollars. Wait. I'll be right there.
    And Persitsky returned, bringing with him a dozen Stanka employees.
    A general conversation ensued.
    - Well, how did you trade? - Persitsky asked.
    - Wrote wonderful poems!
    - About Gavrila? Something peasant? “Gavrila plowed early, Gavrila adored his plow”?
    - What Gavrila! After all, this is hack work! - Lapis defended himself. - I wrote about the Caucasus.
    - Have you been to the Caucasus?
    - I'm leaving in two weeks.
    - Aren't you afraid, Lyapsus? There are jackals!
    - It scares me a lot! They are not poisonous in the Caucasus!
    After this answer, everyone was wary.
    “Tell me, Lyapsus,” Persitsky asked, “what do you think jackals are?”
    - Yes, I know, leave me alone!
    - Well, tell me if you know!
    - Well, these... in the shape of a snake.
    - Yes, yes, you are right, as always. In your opinion, after all, the saddle of a wild goat is served at the table along with stirrups.
    - I never said that! shouted Troubetzkoy.
    - You didn't say. You wrote. Napernikov told me that you tried to sell him such poems in “Gerasim and Mumu”, supposedly from the life of hunters. Tell me honestly, Lyapsus, why are you writing about something that you have never seen in your life and about which you have not the slightest idea? Why in your poem "Canton" is the peignoir a ballgown? Why?...." Unfortunately, the format of the commentary does not allow further printing of this scene from the novel, it is another page and a half, it is even more interesting, you can look at the original source, but the essence is that the current author is very similar to the character in the novel.
  91. 0
    15 August 2019 18: 59
    Quote: kalibr
    Quote: Radikal
    the public is discussing

    Smart people discuss ideas, average people discuss events, fools discuss people!

    With your caveman comment, you perfectly confirmed everything that I thought about you before, you still have to screw up something about subhumans (which you probably include the majority of our population) the Aryan race, and the golden billion! sad
  92. 0
    16 August 2019 07: 31
    Quote: Radikal
    Smart people discuss ideas, average people discuss events, fools discuss people!

    And this is all you can add to yours. Truth does not fade from repetition!
  93. 0
    16 August 2019 10: 19
    What is this nonsense?
  94. 0
    16 August 2019 17: 40
    What for? In the event of a NATO Attack on Us, We will immediately be the First to use Nuclear Weapons, like NATO in the 1970s. Let them eat the soup they prepared themselves, sir!
  95. 0
    17 August 2019 18: 56
    Quote: Nikolai S.
    It is worth paying attention to the thrown details. In my opinion, another portion of Russophobia

    ...hasn’t this publication become a foreign agent yet? I haven't been here for a long time, being on my travels...

    By the way, on topic...
    Also, a very long time ago, almost 20 years ago, a friend and I were on the farthest western shores.
    The edge of the earth, we are sitting under the splashing waters of the Atlantic, next to port facilities, concrete shores.
    Suddenly he screamed joyfully - “I did it! I got there!!!”
    I ask - what are you doing?
    Grit - I remember, once during the command and control exercise they gave me a map in a spreadsheet, where this point was marked as the end point! Like a route and final destination! I thought - what a fantasy our staff have... No, dreams have come true, albeit in this form...

    He served until recently before this peaceful trip to the GSVG, deputy air defense battalion commander. And if necessary d.b. to be at this “end of the world” with your “Shilkas”/“Tunguskas” and “Strelas” exactly in these places...
    Well, we drank a Russian drink, which I picked up for the occasion, from the favorite series of strategists - the red "YoshkinKot". Two Russian retirees checked in as expected, using chalk on a concrete fence and taking photos. By the way, we were not alone in recordings in Russian...

    Well, if we return to current realities, there will be no “Throws to the West” these days (although sometimes I really want to, seeing THEIR new demonicness).
    If necessary, everything will be different - “remote light/heat” - and delivered not only through Gazprom pipes, but also by other carriers in abundance. Well, the end of gay-Europe will be put by the glorious musbats from socially close peoples...
  96. 0
    18 August 2019 11: 23
    Quote: kalibr
    Tanks on the streets of Grozny, 1995!

    What Terrible????
    This is Tskhinvali 2008, you need to be careful!
    See, for example, https://sputnik-ossetia.ru/10-years-no-war/20180807/6806352.html
    Quote: kalibr
    Do you think I don't know this? Author of 6 books on the history of BTT and publisher of the magazine TANKOMASTER?

    Even more careful!
  97. 0
    19 August 2019 13: 29
    What was that?
    Let's not pollute the airwaves with feverish fantasies and calmly wait for 2045...
  98. 0
    19 August 2019 18: 52
    The traitor Rezun, under the pseudonym V. Suvorov, also described how the Red Army had to blow up bridges in 1941 so that the Wehrmacht panzers would stand 100 km from the crossed Soviet border. And the historian A. Isaev showed that the blown up bridges did not prevent the Wehrmacht panzers from traveling from Brest to Moscow in 4 months. Moreover, there were practically no highways in the USSR in 1941, so the directions....
  99. 0
    19 August 2019 20: 50
    A reasonable idea, but man is an impatient creature. Many people can't wait, right? For example, I just can’t wait for 2045...
  100. 0
    19 August 2019 20: 51
    Quote: nnz226
    And the historian A. Isaev showed that the blown up bridges did not prevent the Wehrmacht panzers from traveling from Brest to Moscow in 4 months.

    Don't compare that time and ours...