Military Review

New assault rifles and machine guns for the US Army

105
Soon, the American army will abandon the traditional M4 automatic carbines and M249 light machine guns in favor of new models of small arms weapons. It is planned that the transfer of ground forces and the Marine Corps to new models of small arms will begin in the 2023 year. The main reason for rearmament is the transition to a new caliber of small arms. The U.S. Army abandons the 5,56 mm cartridge in favor of a promising 6,8 mm caliber ammunition.




The first information about the tender, providing for the development of new models of small arms, appeared last fall. The preliminary task for the creation of a new small arms systems prototype competition within the framework of the 6,8 mm caliber cartridge was issued on October 4 of the year 2018. New American small arms are being developed as part of the NGSW's Next Generation Squad Weapons program.

Weapon chuck 6,8 mm


It is worth noting that even during the military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq, the American military massively complained about the insufficient stopping effect of traditional cartridges of the caliber 5,56xNUMX mm NATO. This low-pulse intermediate cartridge was officially adopted by the NATO countries in the 45 years. Then the cartridge replaced the ammunition 1980x7,62 mm, which was often criticized as too powerful a cartridge for used and designed automatic rifles. Another problem was the excessive weight of such cartridges, which reduced wearable ammunition and limited the infantry's capabilities in the changing conditions of warfare.

According to Military.com, at present, the first prototypes of promising light machine guns under the 6,8 mm cartridge, which are being created as part of the adopted Next Generation Squad Weapons program, are already being tested in the United States at the Aberdeen training ground in Maryland. Brigadier General David Hodne, responsible for the implementation of the NGSW project, told the publication about the testing of new models of small arms. According to him, the replacement of the M4 automatic carbine and the M249 light machine gun should be fully ready by the first quarter of 2023. It was at this time that new items should begin to enter the arsenal of units of the American infantry.


American soldier with a M249 machine gun


Earlier, the U.S. Army Command of Advanced Development and research centers of the U.S. Armed Forces came to the conclusion that the 5,56X45 mm cartridge in the arsenal of the American army is no longer effective against modern defenses that are in the arsenal of countries that are potential opponents of Washington. In addition to the low penetration ability of the bullet and insufficient stopping power, the ammunition of the caliber 5,56 mm is notable for a significant loss of lethal force when firing at long distances. All of this combined led the Americans to turn their attention to a new version of the 6,8 mm cartridge, which will become the main one for promising small arms systems.

The new ammunition is intermediate between the cartridges of caliber 7,62x51 and 5,56x45 mm. At the same time, the new ammunition will retain all the best characteristics of a heavier cartridge of 7,62 mm caliber, while remaining lighter than it. At least 10 percent is expected. Considering that every gram of excess weight is important for a fighter, this is not so bad. In addition, the sleeve of the new cartridge is planned to be made without the use of brass. Two main options are considered: a special composition of steel or a special polymer. In addition to the possibility of creating liners from polymers in the United States, they are also working on telescopic ammunition, which also reduces the weight of the cartridge.

Earlier in the USA, the 6,8x43 mm Remington SPC cartridge was already developed. Ammunition has good ballistics and lethal force, while its size and recoil remain moderate. This cartridge was developed by Remington together with the US Army since 2002 year. The official presentation of the cartridge took place in 2004 year. The kinetic energy of the bullet at the time of the shot for the Remington SPC cartridge is 2430 J, this is 1,4 times more than that of an ammunition of the caliber 5,56x45 mm. The mass of the bullet 6,8 mm cartridge is 7,45 grams, versus 4 grams for the cartridge 5,56x45mm. It will be unknown whether the ammunition reserve for these cartridges will be used to create new ammunition of the 6,8 mm caliber.

New assault rifles and machine guns for the US Army

Cartridge 6,8x43 mm Remington SPC (left) and cartridge 5,56x45 mm (right)


It is assumed that not one of the existing body armor can resist the new cartridge of the 6,8 mm caliber. For the United States, this is especially important and is one of the reasons for the transition to a new caliber. Following the American army, other armies of the world also acquired their own modern combat equipment options, primarily the PRC and Russia. New protective kits, including modern body armor, Kevlar helmets and other military protection elements, turned out to be a tough nut for small-caliber small-caliber ammunition. At the same time, both the PLA and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are already working on the creation of improved protective equipment for their own military personnel. So in February of 2019, information appeared that Russian units of the Airborne Forces and ground forces were expecting new versions of body armor from the 2 Warrior combat gear complex. According to the creators of the bulletproof vest, he is able to withstand the hit of a bullet fired from a sniper rifle from a distance of only 10 meters. In such circumstances, the desire of the US military to switch to the caliber 6,8 mm, which is suitable for combat at short, medium and long distances, seems to be fully justified. Experts already call this solution quite promising.

Other features of promising weapons


The US military declares one of the main goals of the entire program “Small Arms of a New Generation Branch” to reduce the total weight of weapons and ammunition. That is why designers today are considering innovative solutions for cartridges, which include the creation of a sleeve of polymer materials and the development of telescopic munitions. The aim of all developments is to obtain a cartridge of a smaller mass, but with the preservation of all the required damaging characteristics.

It is also known that the US military leadership requested developers to present models of promising small arms with rechargeable and non-rechargeable batteries for an advanced fire control system. The weapon becomes more complex and more and more resembles the systems that are implemented today on wheeled and tracked military equipment. According to the plan of the US military, the new aiming system can be a real breakthrough, providing the soldier with great striking ability. In this case, the battery will be directly integrated into the design of the automatic rifle.


One of the prototypes of a machine gun under the cartridge 6,8 mm from AAI Corporation


It is assumed that a promising fire control system will appear as a combination of well and long-known devices combined in one accessory, the mass of which should not exceed one kilogram. It is expected that the device will include a ballistic computer, a laser rangefinder, a set of atmospheric sensors and an optical sight adjustment system. With the help of digital tools, each fighter can easily customize the weapon to his needs, taking into account the weather situation and the firing range. This development is only the first step in the development of samples of small arms. In the future, Americans expect to integrate all of the above devices into night vision devices.

New weapon developers


According to the American thematic publication Jane's Defense Weekly, a preliminary task issued in October last year to create new small arms concepts under a new cartridge most likely canceled preliminary contract agreements from June 25 to 2018. Although possible, this is only an addition to the already issued contracts. One way or another, previously six preliminary contractual agreements to create a replacement machine gun M249 were issued to companies: AAI Corporation (part of Textron Systems), FN America (two contractual agreements), General Dynamics-OTS, PCP Tactical and SIG Sauer. With a high degree of probability, the representatives of these companies are participating in the competition for the creation of the promising assault rifle NGSW-R and light machine gun NGSW-AR.

According to the latest information, 4 companies will submit their samples for testing, of which only three will be admitted to the next stage of selection. While we do not know the participants in the first tests, we only know that samples of automatic weapons of a new generation are already being tested. The results of this stage of the competition will be known by the end of the summer of 2019. After that, the three remaining companies will continue to improve the presented samples of small arms, as well as work to create new ammunition for them.

According to information published on the US government tenders website fedbizopps.gov, the three remaining companies will need to provide the military with 53 sample NGSW-R and 43 sample NGSW-AR, as well as 850 thousand cartridges of 6,8 mm caliber for the specified models of small arms. The gradual introduction and testing of prototypes in the troops is planned to begin by the 2021 year, so that by the 2023 year to begin the full re-equipment of infantry units. It is noted that the company, the winner of the competition for the creation of advanced models of automatic weapons, will receive an order for the manufacture of 250 thousand small arms and 150 million cartridges for them. It is also worth noting that the plans of the American army to switch to a new cartridge of the 6,8 mm caliber suggest the creation of a new production line for the production of cartridges. The new facility is due to appear at Lake City's Ammunition and Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Missouri.
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  1. Vitaly L
    Vitaly L 7 August 2019 05: 48
    +2
    Good afternoon, I wonder what will be our (RF Armed Forces) asymmetric answer !!!
    1. Ezekiel 25-17
      Ezekiel 25-17 7 August 2019 07: 55
      +1
      7, 62 × 39, as an option or 6,5 × 39, the probability is lower.
    2. SERGEY SERGEEVICS
      SERGEY SERGEEVICS 7 August 2019 08: 02
      +12
      Quote: Vitaly L
      Good afternoon, I wonder what will be our (RF Armed Forces) asymmetric answer !!!

      Nothing. This is not necessary, and there is no armament race to give an asymmetric answer.
    3. Svateev
      Svateev 7 August 2019 09: 28
      0
      The main thing is not indicated in the article: the pressure in the barrel of the new American rifle will be increased to the values ​​in tank guns. And this will increase the initial velocity of the bullet while maintaining an acceptable barrel length. Increased speed is increased penetration, improved flatness (direct range), reduced corrections for wind drift and target movement, etc. Improving weapon characteristics. Everything is reasonable here.
      The only question is whether it is reasonable to increase the caliber to 6,8mm, because by increasing the initial velocity of the bullet they will increase the recoil momentum, and if they also increase the caliber = bullet mass ... It is necessary to count.
      1. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 20: 12
        +2
        Increased bullet speed is the shorter barrel life. A couple of dozens of years ago in South Africa experimented with speeds of 1300-1500 m / s for a caliber of 5,56 mm. Everything was amazing, except for one. The barrel was planed to a smoothbore very quickly. They could not win it.

        I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
        1. Michael HORNET
          Michael HORNET 4 September 2019 06: 48
          0
          Yes, everything is clear, the embodiment of the concept of increasing the range of work of the marksman. It is obvious that in order to minimize their losses from the riflemen, they are trying to make sure that their rifle battle is conducted by their side for 1 km
          No queues are needed here. But we need optics and a completely new soldier in terms of training

          the cartridge was taken not 6,8 Rem ATP and not 6,5 Grendel, that is, not intermediate, but actually a rifle in power, just a little shortened
          This will entail the replacement of stores and ALL ammunition ...
          Roughly speaking, they definitely returned to the concept of Fedorov’s cartridge, whose 6,5 mm cartridge was a light rifle and not an intermediate one
          Ballistics of course inspires - 6,5 mm bullet weighing 9 g at a speed of 975 m / s from the barrel in just 14 ”
          Of course, here without a suppressor is not an option at all
          And the cartridge in size is 308, but also thicker than it
          Shop at the rifle in the photo - apparently twenty
        2. kutuz
          kutuz 14 October 2019 12: 53
          0
          "A couple of decades ago in South Africa" ​​- found an example, you would still remember the First World War. Time goes by, new technologies, new materials, a lot has changed in 30 years, there are no fools sitting there. Surely everything was checked and calculated, and not once before making such a decision.
    4. E.S.
      E.S. 7 August 2019 09: 35
      0
      Buy more self-propelled guns and 152mm shells
    5. NEOZ
      NEOZ 7 August 2019 11: 58
      0
      Quote: Vitaly L
      Our (Armed Forces of the Russian Federation) asymmetric answer !!!

      Well, maybe a bullet with a steel core? .... or something like that ...
      1. Den717
        Den717 8 August 2019 12: 52
        0
        Quote: NEOZ
        Well, maybe a bullet with a steel core? .... or something like that ...

        And today what, the core of .... sheep droppings? laughing It has been a long time since metal ceramics, various versions of tungsten carbide, etc., were used as a material for cores in CO bullets. They will talk about this transition to a new caliber for a long time, because to switch to it, a mobilization reserve of at least 4-5 billion is needed (in Iraq, during the more or less active period, 1,5 billion cartridges were spent per year). The Missouri cartridge plant (it is the only state-owned cartridge plant so far) produces about 1,2 billion, something will be purchased from private contractors. Considering that the current combat activity of the US Army also consumes something, it can be assumed that the creation of reserves will take about 4-7 years, if you begin to actively work in this direction already tomorrow. 6,8 × 43 is no doubt a serious thing, but how much such an increase in cartridge power is justified in a combat situation, we must seriously think. It is so far clear that the manufacturer (MIC) is getting the biggest gain in the form of a serious budget for the modernization of existing production and the acquisition of new capacities. IMHO
    6. vkl.47
      vkl.47 7 August 2019 14: 13
      -4
      SHAK-12.if you need a stopping action.
      1. vkl.47
        vkl.47 7 August 2019 14: 15
        -1
        https://cadelta.ru/images/shak-121.jpg
    7. Kolin
      Kolin 7 August 2019 16: 05
      +1
      Quote: Vitaly L
      Good afternoon, I wonder what will be our (RF Armed Forces) asymmetric answer !!!

      Maximum - introduce new bullets with improved ballistic coefficient.

      The Pentagon saw is sawing money!
  2. andrewkor
    andrewkor 7 August 2019 06: 01
    +2
    "The possibilities of the 7,62 × 39 cartridge are far from being exhausted": MT Kalashnikov after the AK-74 was adopted!
    1. Droid
      Droid 8 August 2019 18: 57
      +2
      Exhausted. He will never be able to compare with the same 5,45 in firing efficiency.
  3. Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Obi-Wan Kenobi 7 August 2019 06: 56
    0
    The company, the winner of the competition for the creation of advanced models of automatic weapons, will receive an order for the manufacture of 250 thousand small arms and 150 million cartridges for them. It is also worth noting that the plans of the American army to switch to a new cartridge of 6,8 mm caliber suggest the creation of a new production line for the production of cartridges.

    Yeah ...
    Their (American) would be seething, indefatigable energy, yes, together with their financing, but in a peaceful direction ...
    What heights could they reach ?!
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 7 August 2019 07: 40
      +6
      Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
      yes in a peaceful direction ...

      In a peaceful way, they will not be able to ensure the legitimacy of an unsecured dollar. request
    2. E.S.
      E.S. 7 August 2019 09: 45
      +1
      Let, let them work!
      They have already produced 100500 pistol and revolving calibers, each of which is much better than all the others, now let them breed the zoo of army rifle calibers!
      1. Tamer
        Tamer 7 August 2019 10: 17
        +2
        Most often, to switch to a different caliber in M-family rifles, the barrel and bolt group (usually just a bolt, also known as a bolt) change simply and elegantly, while the diameter of the bottom of the sleeve is of great importance. And so yes, the variety of calibers is huge)) but is the choice really bad?
        1. ProkletyiPirat
          ProkletyiPirat 7 August 2019 14: 19
          0
          Quote: Tamer
          but is choice really bad?

          It depends on what and how. If a personal weapon in a war (in a war, not in a battle) without special equipment can change the caliber, for example, to the enemy, or to "modernized for a theater of operations", then this is good, BUT in any case, it is better to change the cartridges, not the barrels.
  4. riwas
    riwas 7 August 2019 07: 14
    +1
    The kinetic energy of the bullet at the time of the shot for the Remington SPC cartridge is 2430 J, which is 1,4 times more than the ammunition of 5,56x45 mm caliber. The mass of the bullet 6,8 mm cartridge is 7,45 grams, compared to 4 grams in the cartridge 5,56h45mm.

    For M16A2, the initial speed is 930 m / s.
    Thus, it is possible to obtain the same (2430 J) energy for a 5,56x45 mm cartridge at an initial speed of 1270 m / s or 1068 m / s with a caliber of 6,24 mm. With a smaller caliber with the same muzzle energy, armor penetration is higher. Unless of course the goal is to increase the effective firing range.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 7 August 2019 09: 31
      -1
      Quote: riwas
      With a smaller caliber with the same muzzle energy, armor penetration is higher.

      Exactly! Because the specific pressure on the contact patch is greater.
      Quote: riwas
      Unless of course the goal is to increase the effective firing range.

      With an increase in the initial velocity of the bullet, the effective firing range increases.
      1. ProkletyiPirat
        ProkletyiPirat 7 August 2019 14: 58
        0
        Quote: Svateev
        Quote: riwas
        With a smaller caliber with the same muzzle energy, armor penetration is higher.

        Exactly! Because the specific pressure on the contact patch is greater.

        Actually not so!
        1) Penetration is greater with a smaller caliber with the same F = A * B (where A * B is the mass and velocity of the projectile)
        2) The speed is greater with a larger barrel length, all other things being equal (longer acceleration duration)
        3) The speed is greater with a larger area of ​​the bearing surface, ceteris paribus (more area of ​​impact at the same pressure and mass)
        That's why in tank guns they use sub-caliber shells.
        For those who do not understand: I explain: the statements cited above are false since it is possible to select parameters so that armor penetration will either decrease or not increase when these statements are fulfilled. That is, there is no direct connection between these parameters.
        1. Den717
          Den717 8 August 2019 12: 27
          0
          Quote: ProkletyiPirat
          Actually not so!

          In position 1, you have given the momentum formula. In fact, everything is much more complicated. Penetration of small arms bullets: {\ displaystyle b = (Cqd ^ {2} a ^ {- 1}) \ cdot \ ln (1 + Bv ^ {2})} {\ displaystyle b = (Cqd ^ {2} a ^ {-1}) \ cdot \ ln (1 + Bv ^ {2})}, where b is the depth of penetration of the bullet into the obstacle, q is the mass of the bullet, a is the shape coefficient of the warhead, d is the diameter of the bullet, v is the speed of the bullet at the point of encounter with the barrier, B and C are the coefficients for various materials. Coefficient a = 1,91-0,35 * h / d, where h is the height of the bullet head, for a bullet sample 1908 a = 1, bullet for a cartridge sample 1943 a = 1,3, bullet for a TT cartridge a = 1,7, 5,5 Coefficient B = 10 * 7 ^ -2450 for armor (soft and hard), Coefficient C = 255 for soft armor with HB = 2960 and 444 for hard armor with HB = XNUMX. The formula is approximate, does not take into account the deformation of the warhead, therefore, for armor, the parameters of the armor-piercing core should be substituted into it, and not the bullet itself. (shortly from WIKI)
          Discussing the rest of your arguments does not make sense.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 13: 45
            0
            Quote: Den717
            In position 1, you have given the momentum formula. In fact, everything is much more complicated. Penetration of small arms bullets

            Nuuuu then let’s immediately give the formula for the focus of wave resonance in multidimensional space, Nuuuu or at least a formula taking into account the hydrodynamic effects, in particular the self-sharpening effect.
            In general, of course, I could start to pull like you owl on globea formula for statistics, but somehow I don’t see much sense in this, for all this part another approximate formula it is permissible to reduce it because it will be in both parts of the comparison and with the same quality of study, the error calculatingcomparisons will tend to zero ...
            1. Den717
              Den717 8 August 2019 16: 18
              0
              Quote: ProkletyiPirat
              In general, of course, I could like you to start pulling an owl on a globe

              If you can, then pull it, but no, you should not mislead people. An impulse is one thing, and the energy of a bullet (without taking into account the parameters of resistance to breaking through an obstacle) is a bit different.
              1. ProkletyiPirat
                ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 18: 34
                0
                Quote: Den717
                do not mislead people.

                As if I did the opposite, described what the authors were mistaken above, but I didn’t even pretend to the truth in the first instance on the subject of armor penetration, you already started it. hi
                1. haron
                  haron 20 August 2019 22: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Den717
                  An impulse is one thing, and the energy of a bullet (without taking into account the parameters of resistance to breaking through an obstacle) is a bit different.

                  Quote: ProkletyiPirat
                  I’ve done the opposite,

                  Uh! Comrades physical officers in mathematics, will we pull 7,62x39 on the parameters 6,8x43? We will connect math materials science of shells, chemistry of throwers, in flea markets R we are picking up for trunks and cores, salting with a Kursk magnetic anomaly, and potassium permanganate from marginals. What prevents that? The machine tool park has become dull, or will owls not fit into diversity? Do you need to saw or fight?
    2. Tamer
      Tamer 7 August 2019 10: 21
      +2
      Yeah, you can get the same energy by dispersing the same bullet to 1270 m / s (?) In the same rifle, but at what cost)) It's just that simple)) And there are no consequences, yeah))
  5. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 7 August 2019 07: 35
    +5
    In YouTube there is a video showing the shooting of 7.62 and 5,45 mm cartridges. on a soft volume target. It turned out that the stopping power of the caliber 5,45 is higher than that of 7,62 due to somersault of the bullet. And armor penetration does not depend on the caliber of the bullet but on the power of the cartridge.
    1. paul3390
      paul3390 7 August 2019 14: 16
      0
      Here we must also take into account the backward action .. We tried .223 to shoot at the old body - after breaking through the first door, the bullet already comes in with an iron. In the sense of flat. From SCS - right through, the holes are even .. So - it's not so simple ..
  6. Operator
    Operator 7 August 2019 08: 31
    -4
    The new 6,8-mm cartridge is a re-squeezed version of the 7,61х51 mm cartridge and is designed to pierce a ceramic armor plate of the ESAPI type at a distance of not more than 100 meters.

    Due to the recoil momentum at the level of 7,61x51 mm, it will be impossible to fire automatically from the hands - only single a la three-line.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 7 August 2019 09: 33
      -1
      Quote: Operator
      at a distance of no more than 100 meters.

      So little? Give a link to this information, please.
      1. Operator
        Operator 7 August 2019 09: 42
        0
        100 meters for ESAPI for the hardened steel bullet 6,8x51 mm - this is a lot compared to 10 meters for the same bullet 7,62x51 mm.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 7 August 2019 09: 44
          -1
          Quote: Operator
          compared to 10 meters

          That is yes. But still, where is the information about 100?
    2. Parabelum
      Parabelum 7 August 2019 10: 05
      +2
      This is where we get the habit of considering ourselves the smartest, and others so stupid that we put out the light. Do you really think that, having tested the cartridge since 2004, no one has guessed "to conduct automatic fire from hands"? Well, to understand that this is impossible. Do you really think so?
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 7 August 2019 11: 02
        -2
        Quote: Parabelum
        Do you really think that, having tested the cartridge since 2004, no one has guessed "to conduct automatic fire from hands"?

        What is the result?
        Quote: Parabelum
        That's where we got the habit of considering ourselves the smartest

        We have no such habit. We ask questions.
        1. Parabelum
          Parabelum 7 August 2019 11: 14
          +1
          The result is unknown to me, I do not want to look for information. I'm not particularly interested in this. Here the point is completely different, do you also think that conducting tests since 2004, no one guessed "to conduct automatic fire from hands"?
    3. Tamer
      Tamer 8 August 2019 11: 59
      0
      Quote: Operator
      The new 6,8 mm cartridge is a re-rolled version of the 7,61x51 mm cartridge.

      It is unlikely

      Quote: Operator
      Due to the recoil momentum at the level of 7,61x51 mm, it will be impossible to fire automatically from the hands - only single a la three-line.

      Well, of course, there are no rifles with automatic fire under 7,62x51)) and do not fire with bursts from them wassat
    4. psiho117
      psiho117 11 August 2019 22: 44
      0
      Quote: Operator
      The new 6,8 mm cartridge is a re-rolled version of 7,61x51

      Heresy. 6,8 Rem is a re-compressed .30 Rem, which is almost identical in mass and dimensions to .223 Rem (5,56 × 45) and with minimal alterations, the rifle and magazines for 5,56 × 45 NATO can be converted to a caliber of 6,8.
      1. Michael HORNET
        Michael HORNET 4 September 2019 06: 50
        0
        No, the cartridge is not intermediate but a full-fledged rifle
  7. Oleg Kolsky 051
    Oleg Kolsky 051 7 August 2019 08: 38
    -1
    Our possible "answer to Chamberlain" is the adoption of a rifle triplex, a sniper rifle-submachine gun, chambered for 6x49.
    But it will be worth it. So that is unlikely. But we will look further.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 7 August 2019 09: 38
      0
      Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
      machine-gun sniper rifle, chambered for 6x49.

      Because of the high recoil momentum, even the creators of the 6x49 cartridge consider it to be a rifle cartridge, but not "automatic". That is, a sniper (already tested in the database) and a machine gun. But what kind of machine to do?
      1. Oleg Kolsky 051
        Oleg Kolsky 051 7 August 2019 10: 03
        +1
        Impulse cartridge 6x49 1kg., 7,62x39 (from memory) 0,8kg .. The weight of the cartridges is the same, about 16-20g. depending on the weight of the bullet. So, with the obvious advantages of 6x49, it does not differ much from 7,62x39 in weight and return. And about the opinion of the developers of the cartridge, I read just that it was created precisely as a single cartridge.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 7 August 2019 10: 13
          0
          Quote: Oleg Kolsky 051
          Impulse cartridge 6x49 1kg., 7,62x39 (from memory) 0,8kg ..

          That is, the momentum is greater than that of AKM. And the dispersion of the AKM queue is unsatisfactory. However, if you put the muzzle brake compensator as on AK-15 ... You need to try. And our Ministry of Defense buys "new" automatic machines for old cartridges instead.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 7 August 2019 15: 09
            +1
            Quote: Svateev
            And our Ministry of Defense buys "new" automatic machines for old cartridges instead.

            And rightly so, you can get by with cheaper means when performing combat missions, and where it is impossible (MTR / assault special forces), you can produce "weapon-cartridge" complexes.
      2. Horse, people and soul
        Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 20: 24
        +1
        And do not. The usual 7,62x39, but with new cartridges, where a sub-caliber armor-piercing bullet in a plastic caliber container with a better 7,62 ballistic coefficient than today's bullet.

        Sighting new ones will be needed, as the range of a direct shot will increase.

        I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
    2. E.S.
      E.S. 7 August 2019 09: 42
      +1
      No, we don’t need to produce calibers, we just got together to switch to a rimless rifle cartridge - the First World War began, then we got together to switch to an intermediate 6,5mm - the Second World War began, better let's leave it as it is :-)
  8. Zufei
    Zufei 7 August 2019 08: 55
    -2
    So, back in February 2019, information appeared that Russian units of the Airborne Forces and ground forces were expecting new versions of body armor from the military equipment complex “Ratnik 2”. According to the creators of the bulletproof vest, he is able to withstand a bullet fired from a sniper rifle from a distance of only 10 meters. In such circumstances, the desire of the US military to switch to a caliber of 6,8 mm, which is suitable for combat at short, medium and long distances, seems to be fully justified.
    And what is the caliber of a sniper rifle of the same USA?
  9. Plague doctor
    Plague doctor 7 August 2019 09: 54
    -3
    Why do not we make loose tapes, and do not replace a not convenient rifle cartridge with a hem on the sleeve.
  10. Yrec
    Yrec 7 August 2019 09: 59
    0
    6,8x43 painfully resembles our 7,62x39. And the size and weight of the bullet and kinetic energy. The bullet weight, almost 2 times more than 5,56x45, practically negates such a concept as "low-impulse ammunition" - the recoil will be like that of the AKM. It will be very difficult to bring the initial speed and flatness closer to 5,56 (and 5,45 for us) in this form factor. We need new gunpowder and new bullet materials. The price of a cartridge will rise a lot, even if the brass in the case is discarded. Modern IZS (Ratnik companions), in practice, are not taken with an automatic bullet almost point-blank. Probably need to fence a sub-caliber bullet. Let's see what happens.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 7 August 2019 16: 40
      0
      It seems like benchrestrers use a 6,5 mm cartridge, where the sleeve is our overloaded from 7,62x39. It is possible that now the Americans are doing something as in their time with the hunting Remington 5,56
  11. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 7 August 2019 10: 14
    +7
    An almost complete repetition of the article and the discussion a week ago.
    https://topwar.ru/160652-armija-ssha-vybrala-patrony-dlja-vintovki-buduschego.html#comment-id-9557408
    The brief meaning of such articles - they heard that there will be a transition to a caliber of 6,8 mm, but what kind of weapon and which cartridge is exactly - is unknown.
    Another transfusion from empty to empty.
    Well, the meaning of this information ZERO?
    1. Couchexpert
      Couchexpert 7 August 2019 13: 52
      +3
      Comments Including ours. In the news section there is even more such garbage.
  12. yehat
    yehat 7 August 2019 10: 53
    +1
    Quote: Svateev
    It is necessary to consider.

    p (momentum) = mv. in mathematics there is a theorem that the product m1 * m2 grows inversely with the difference between m1 and m2
    therefore, unbalanced bullets with a significant increase in only mass or only speed will receive a moderate increase in recoil momentum. That is why 5.45 had such a small return.
    I don’t know the mass of the new 6.8 bullet, but visually it is noticeably lighter than our 7.62 cartridge and therefore, with a superior speed of 15-20% compared to the AK-47, it will return at least no more momentum to the barrel.
  13. yehat
    yehat 7 August 2019 10: 57
    0
    Quote: DimerVladimer
    Another transfusion from empty to empty.
    Well, the meaning of this information ZERO?

    Well, it makes sense. If earlier weapons samples of 7-8 years were popular, but only as experienced ones,
    now the army has officially begun testing and competition.
    It seemed to me that the main point of the transition was to continue working on assigning effective shooting of the rifle squad to 400m and to get a more effective analogue of the minimi. At least most of the experiments with 6.8 were in precisely such samples.

    In addition, Americans have other interesting directions,
    for example, HK UMP with .45 ACP caliber is popular
    it may be a bad weapon, but the pleasure of shooting is awesome - I personally checked it.
    it can be seen in the film matrix - when Neo's ghosts were shot on the road.
  14. Serzh_R
    Serzh_R 7 August 2019 12: 13
    0
    There is money, there are requests. Improve 7.62 does not have enough partner urine.
    The terminator in 2030 will not care what caliber to shoot from.
  15. yehat
    yehat 7 August 2019 13: 15
    +2
    Quote: Serzh_R
    The terminator in 2030 will not care what caliber to shoot from.

    but from the movie we know for sure that he prefers shotgun
  16. Out
    Out 7 August 2019 13: 35
    0
    Something explaining the need for a new caliber resembles a bike about bulletproof Chinese quilted jackets
  17. Operator
    Operator 7 August 2019 13: 39
    -3
    Over the past half-century or more after the adoption of the M-16 US Army, it has been doing just that and miserably failing its own programs to develop new types of small arms (the extreme - LSAT).

    Therefore, there is no doubt that the new US Army programs to develop a self-loading rifle and light machine gun in caliber 6,8x51 mm will face the same fate.

    ESAPI forever laughing
  18. asura
    asura 7 August 2019 14: 08
    +3
    The cartridge 7,62x39 disgusting ballistics. No alternative, as some write, he will not be able to become anything. Perhaps for the second half of the 20th century this was an excellent cartridge, but now something else is needed.

    The same 6,5 Grendel was just an attempt (probably not entirely successful) to obtain the necessary characteristics with the maximum use of the existing backlog. That is, they took a sleeve from 7,62x39 and made a longer bullet of a smaller caliber to effectively hit targets at medium distances.

    How Americans will overcome the increased momentum of new cartridges in automatic shooting - we'll see.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 20: 45
      0
      It can be a sub-caliber bullet with the best ballistic coefficient in a caliber plastic pallet.

      Sights will have to be changed - the range of a direct shot will increase.

      I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
  19. Kolin
    Kolin 7 August 2019 16: 02
    0
    It is assumed that not one of the existing body armor can resist the new cartridge of 6,8 mm caliber.

    Using magic? And then tungsten is not enough for all bullets.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 20: 43
      0
      There is more depleted uranium than there is tungsten.

      You can make uranium. Just do not put bullets in your pants pockets shove.

      lol

      I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
  20. Catfish
    Catfish 7 August 2019 18: 51
    +3
    So it turns out: Vladimir Grigorievich Fedorov, captain of the Russian army, at the beginning of the last century proposed the optimal caliber for an assault rifle (assault rifle), and all the research for a century has returned to his idea. Man, after all, is Great foresight. And about the mass of the cartridge, the weight of the bullet and the materials from which they will be made, let's not. Caliber in 6 mm (+ imli -), the rest, the details have come over time.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 20: 40
      +2
      Hello my friend!

      Fedorov - Fedorov, but before him there were Japanese with Arisaka, with whom Fedorov was lucky that the cartridge was weak for a rifle, but it was better for the Fedorov assault rifle than the native cartridge, since the native was very powerful for firing auto-fire.

      And there were all sorts of Italian Carcano, with which Kennedy banged and is still in demand among athletes around the world and among hunters of the northern countries "Swedish Mauser" 6,5x55.

      If for 7,62x39 a new sub-caliber armor-piercing bullet is made in a plastic caliber container, then that’s all.

      hi

      I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
      1. Catfish
        Catfish 7 August 2019 21: 18
        0
        Fedorov - Fedorov, but before him there were Japanese with Arisaka, with whom Fedorov was very lucky,


        Hello my friend!

        Of course, I was lucky with the cartridge, but the Japanese didn’t even think of the Second World War. Somehow you are very rare, but not on the merits. No offense, okay? smile
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 21: 33
          +1
          So it turns out: Vladimir Grigorievich Fedorov, captain of the Russian army, at the beginning of the last century proposed the optimal caliber for an assault rifle (assault rifle), and all the research for a century has returned to his idea.


          This is not true. His cartridge was too powerful for an automatic rifle or machine gun.

          Duc and without the Japanese cartridge, Fedorov's assault rifle would not have taken place. Fedorov did not even think about the intermediate cartridge. Yes, and no one in his time thought about it, and only having made different "automatic" rifles in different countries by the 1940s, they realized that nothing would work out that way and an intermediate cartridge was needed.

          hi
          1. Catfish
            Catfish 7 August 2019 21: 43
            0
            I have already said that the Japanese, having invented this cartridge, did not advance a single step further. In general, besides this Arisaka, they had no good weapons. Let them be proud of the fact that the genealogy of all assault rifles and assault rifles went from their 6-mm bullet. Thanks Fedorov.
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 21: 52
              +1
              The conversation is not about the Japanese at all, but about the fact that Fedorov was lucky with a Japanese cartridge, which benefited his machine gun. And, here, Fedorov’s native cartridge, even if its production was launched, would not play.

              Therefore, Fedorov is a great fellow, but there is no foresight regarding the patron. He himself did not say anything about the intermediate cartridge, and all over the world, after failures with "automatic" rifles, they thought of it only by the 1940s.

              That's all.

              hi
              1. Catfish
                Catfish 7 August 2019 22: 25
                +1
                Man, I don't think Fedorov was "lucky", I suppose that he was in some way thinking ahead of his time. And the fact that at that time it was not possible to create his conceived, this time. A little later, when everything went well, and the half-educated people did it quite well.
                1. Horse, people and soul
                  Horse, people and soul 7 August 2019 22: 45
                  +1
                  How many people, so many opinions.

                  hi
      2. Tamer
        Tamer 8 August 2019 12: 11
        0
        Quote: Horse, people and soul
        If for 7,62x39 we make a new sub-caliber armor-piercing bullet in a plastic caliber container, then that's all

        Claims to 7,62x39, primarily on ballistics
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 12: 14
          +1
          It is precisely the ballistics that the sub-caliber armor-piercing bullet with the best ballistic coefficient in the plastic caliber detachable pallet will improve.

          I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
          1. ProkletyiPirat
            ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 13: 58
            0
            Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
            submunition armor-piercing bullet

            Well, such a bullet will be more expensive, not convenient due to the damaging power of pallets at close range, and the most hemorrhaging it will require a smooth barrel, in principle it’s even good (to describe the benefit to me laziness), but you have to solve the problem of stabilizing the trajectory of an ordinary bullet / projectile, and this is where the whole hemorrhoid solution of which requires at least R&D, and, as a maximum, the organization of innovative competitions of design bureaus and individual innovators.
            1. Horse, people and soul
              Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 14: 07
              +1
              It is hardly much more expensive, if not made from tungsten.

              A pallet made of light slippery plastic will not fly far. With the correct form, its petals should not have the same direction of flight at all as the bullet freed from them.

              The barrel can be quite rifled, it would be better polygonal, as it is rifled in the Swedish 6,5x25.

              This is a cheap option to give the AK 7,62x39 really new qualities, rather than simply screwing the Picatinny rail for trophy sights.

              I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
              1. Tamer
                Tamer 8 August 2019 14: 35
                0
                This is
                Quote: Horse, people and soul
                a sub-caliber armor-piercing bullet with the best ballistic coefficient in a plastic caliber detachable pallet.

                + This
                Quote: Horse, people and soul
                It is hardly much more expensive, if not made from tungsten.

                + This
                Quote: Horse, people and soul
                A pallet made of light slippery plastic will not fly far.


                = will not "fly" from the AK at all, because there will be nothing to "fly", and 100 meters the requirement for "automatic rifle" ammunition is not limited

                And giving the AK new contours of the barrel is a "factory" repair)) it is cheaper and easier to make a new machine
                1. Horse, people and soul
                  Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 15: 51
                  +1
                  Why doesn’t the sub-caliber bullet suddenly fly with a good ballistic coefficient of 4-5 mm caliber with a detachable 7,62 plastic pallet from the 7,62 barrel?

                  Even as it flies with an increased direct shot range and stored energy at ranges above 300-400 meters.
                  1. Tamer
                    Tamer 8 August 2019 16: 24
                    0
                    Do you recall experiments with an arrow-shaped bullet against 7,62x54?)) I'm not at all sure that it will be possible to place an "arrow" with such characteristics in the x39 sleeve. Yes, and under the "arrows" had its own sleeve)) About the manufacturability of this cartridge, you can argue with foam at the mouth))
                    Discarding the possible adjustment of the test results of experimental samples of "arrows" (a common thing to meet customer requirements), handmade experimental samples, but given the development of machine-tool construction, new materials and technologies can and makes sense to return to the developments 40-50 years ago))
                    1. Horse, people and soul
                      Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 18: 35
                      +1
                      And who wrote about the arrow? I wrote about quite a bullet.

                      A bullet is not an arrow.

                      laughing
                  2. ProkletyiPirat
                    ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 18: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
                    Why doesn’t the sub-caliber bullet suddenly fly with a good ballistic coefficient of 4-5 mm caliber with a detachable 7,62 plastic pallet from the 7,62 barrel?

                    Because the aerodynamically feathered way of stabilizing the projectile trajectory the opposite a gyroscopic method for stabilizing the trajectory of the projectile. I explain that the first SHOULD NOT HAVE ROTATION AT ALL, because even the minimum minimum rotation exponentially increases the dispersion with increasing range. Therefore, it is necessary to figure out how to launch projectiles with gyroscopic stabilization from a smooth barrel. Or, in general, switch to the so-called "needle guns \ needle arrows \ needle holders" (described in modern science fiction), but the problem is that modern MVVs are unable to give them (needles) the required speed so that cavitation stabilization of the projectile trajectory begins to work in a gas environment.

                    This topic is extensive and interesting, there are few R&D and R&D in the open press and they are uninformative, I myself, from time to time, as a warm-up for the mind, I make sketches of solutions to the problem, but I was able to find solutions to the problem only for large calibers, but for bullets I even I can not imagine how to do it request
                    1. Horse, people and soul
                      Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 18: 37
                      +1
                      And where did you get the idea that I was offering a smooth trunk?

                      He wrote clearly: a bullet (not an arrow, but a bullet!) Of 4-5 mm caliber with a good ballistic coefficient in a detachable plastic pallet. It can be fired from a rifled barrel, as was shot with Swedish 6,5x25 mm, the bullet of which is also 4 mm, in a detachable plastic pallet of a caliber of 6,5 mm and through a rifled barrel of a caliber of 6,5 mm.

                      laughing
                      1. Tamer
                        Tamer 8 August 2019 19: 03
                        +1
                        Thanks for the tip! Really curious!
                      2. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 21: 08
                        0
                        Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
                        And where did you get the idea that I was offering a smooth trunk?

                        Did I understand your idea correctly? (Specify your option)
                        option 1)Do you offer an armor-piercing sub-caliber projectile of small caliber and equal mass (relative to a conventional bullet (i.e., long-elongated)) launched from a rifled barrel and using the gyroscopic method of stabilizing the flight path?
                        option 2)Same as option_1 but a shell with less mass i.e. not elongated relative to its diameter?
                      3. Horse, people and soul
                        Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 21: 28
                        +1
                        The cartridge bullet 7,62x39 does not have a very good ballistic coefficient, because of which it quickly loses speed with distance, therefore, the energy and range of a direct shot is only 300 meters.

                        What needs to be done in the size of the same cartridge? Try to use a bullet with the best ballistic coefficient, but do not compress such a bullet in this sleeve. Will have to shorten the sleeve. Shortened sleeve - less gunpowder. As a result, we received not at all what we wanted. It is necessary to make a completely new cartridge, which is also not very desirable.

                        Then we take this very bullet with the best ballistic coefficient and with a detachable tray we use in the existing sleeve for 7,62.

                        The bullet will be stabilized by rotation in the rifled barrel and further after the separation of the pallet.

                        Due to the better ballistic coefficient and with the same powder, there will be a flatter trajectory and a "longer" straight shot.

                        That is, cartridges with a new bullet to the usual available AK 7,62. But sighting needs new ones.

                        The effect is expected, as from the application of 5,45, but with more energy available but a greater distance. It is possible that the bullet will have more energy at such a distance than its own 7,62 bullet, which quickly slows down with distance and loses energy due to its ballistic coefficient.

                        hi

                        Something like that.
                      4. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 21: 36
                        0
                        Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
                        Something like that.

                        I asked a question, but you never answered.
                        Another question arises from your post.
                        Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
                        Will have to shorten the sleeve

                        Actually, why shorten it? Well, let's say we didn't shorten it, "in this case it will be: A, B, C!" What will happen? describe these A, B, C ...
                      5. Horse, people and soul
                        Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 22: 38
                        +1
                        Shorten the sleeve, because in the dimensions of the cartridge 7,62x39 it will not work to re-run a smaller caliber bullet in a larger caliber sleeve. Since the bullet has the best ballistic coefficient, its cylindrical (non-conical) part will be closer to its rear part. To properly rotate - the cartridge will be longer than 7,62x39. The walls of the liner in the place of compression should be parallel, that is, the bullet in this place should be cylindrical. To preserve the dimensions of the cartridge and not redo the weapon the only way to shorten the sleeve, which is not acceptable.

                        Because the sleeve is the same old 7,62 mm, and the bullet is different, for example, 5 mm. And the 7,62 mm pallet has an adapter for a new bullet and an old sleeve. After the shot, the pallet stabilizes the bullet along the cuts, then flies away.
                      6. ProkletyiPirat
                        ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 22: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
                        the only way to shorten the sleeve, which is not acceptable.

                        This statement is false, because in your version it is permissible to shorten the sleeve with a simultaneous increase in its diameter in order to obtain the same volume under the MVV sample.

                        You again did not give an answer to my question about the length of the projectile, from your previous post I conclude that you still offer an elongated projectile with gyroscopic stabilization. And here there are problems of changing the ratio of the center of mass and the center of aerodynamic drag. First of all, the problem of greater leverage and as a result of exponential (from range) destabilization of the trajectory under the influence of the atmosphere and wind. This problem is described in many materials on the ballistics of artillery shells. It is because of it that aerodynamic-tail (aerodynamically feathered) stabilization is used for smooth-bore tank guns, and that is why I initially believed that you had BOPS, and as a result, you simply did not have a solution to this problem. what
    2. Droid
      Droid 8 August 2019 19: 05
      +1
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Vladimir Grigorievich Fedorov, captain of the Russian army, at the beginning of the last century proposed the optimal caliber for the machine

      I didn’t. And he did not write anything about the optimality of the 6,5 mm.
  21. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 8 August 2019 11: 43
    0
    Trends are now replacing the caliber on the machines with 6,5-7mm and the new machine gun caliber of single 8-9mm
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 12: 22
      +1
      The trend is to use bullets with the best ballistic coefficient, so that they carry maximum energy over longer distances, and do not lose it quickly on the way. To use such bullets in the dimensions of the available cartridges, you need to reduce the caliber for 7,62x51 solutions and increase 5,56x45, comforting the bullet (here, he is the same 6,8x43), and in the Soviet 5,45x39 with BC, everything was already done when it was created but not enough gunpowder fits in the sleeve. Add more evil gunpowder - the maximum pressure in the barrel will increase and this cartridge will no longer be able to shoot from old weapons.

      That's why you have to make a new cartridge.

      I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
    2. ProkletyiPirat
      ProkletyiPirat 8 August 2019 14: 01
      +1
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Trends are now replacing the caliber on the machines with 6,5-7mm and the new machine gun caliber of single 8-9mm

      "Trends" that before, that now, haven’t changed much, these are:
      1) give orders to weapons factories
      2) give money to weapons factories
      3) give profit to weapons factories
      4) any whim for your money
      hi
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 8 August 2019 14: 24
        0
        Yes, but in the states along the way they are still trying to do something .....
  22. Operator
    Operator 8 August 2019 14: 46
    0
    Quote: Horse, lyudovѣd and soulѣlyub
    It could be a sub-caliber bullet with the best ballistic coefficient in a caliber plastic pallet

    On the Maxim Popenker page in LJ, the characteristics of the new American cartridge 6,8x51 mm were published - the bullet there is a caliber.

    Sub-caliber - means feathered / conical, which does not require a rifled barrel, but a smooth one / Lancaster. But in the competitive requirements for a self-loading rifle and a machine gun, the word rifle is clearly spelled out - a rifle.

    Therefore, nothing will burn out in the current US Army contests: the 100 meter penetration distance of the ESAPI with a steel caliber bullet is nothing, a distance of at least 300 meters is required, which is provided only by a subcaliber bullet made of a tungsten / uranium metal alloy.
    1. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 19: 09
      +1
      Sub-caliber - means feathered / conical, which does not require a rifled barrel, but a smooth one / Lancaster


      Sub-caliber - this means that the caliber is less, and not that the feathered or that the trunk is smooth.

      In general, see the Swedish cartridge for PP and 6.5x25 pistols. The bullet is sub-calibrated there, but not feathered, and uses a rifled barrel.

      Here, the same can be done with the cartridge 7,62x39, replacing the standard bullet with a bullet of 5 mm caliber with the best ballistic coefficient in a detachable plastic pallet of 7,62 caliber. If the distance of a direct shot increases, then only aiming ones have to be replaced.

      I’m not sure that any of the words used above is not obscene in VO.
      1. Operator
        Operator 8 August 2019 20: 43
        0
        The accuracy of firing an 4-mm bullet in a plastic segmented beaker from an 6,5-mm barrel of a CBJ-MS submachine gun is equal to about 10 angular minutes


        The sub-caliber bullet of large elongation after separation from the pallet should be stabilized aerodynamically - using the tail or conical shape (with the front center of gravity relative to the center of aerodynamic pressure).
        1. Horse, people and soul
          Horse, people and soul 8 August 2019 21: 08
          +1
          An elongated subcaliber (with the best ballistic coefficient) bullet, for example, 5 mm in diameter in a glass of 7,62 mm, may well be stabilized by rotating along the rifling of this glass itself until separation.

          The barrel is rifled.

          hi
          1. Operator
            Operator 8 August 2019 21: 32
            0
            In the SPIW program, it was found that the gyrostabilizing moment for sub-caliber bullets of large elongation does not work - you have to use the aerodynamic stabilizing moment.
  23. Operator
    Operator 8 August 2019 22: 53
    0
    Quote: Tamer
    It is unlikely

    6.8x51 mm Sherwood cartridge
    Bachstein Consulting LLC
    US NGSW program

    1. psiho117
      psiho117 11 August 2019 23: 12
      0
      Another analog of 6.5 Creedmoor.
      But - this is a rifle cartridge, and it can not replace the automatic / intermediate. They already stepped on this rake with a cartridge of 7,62 NATO.
      There is no alternative to 6,8 × 43 Rem SPC or its equivalent.
      1. Operator
        Operator 12 August 2019 00: 11
        0
        6,8x51 Sherwood and 6.5x49 Creedmoor are rifle cartridges, it is under the first of them (more powerful) that a self-loading rifle and machine gun should be developed as part of the new US Army program.

        The one you offer - the 6,8 × 43 Remington SPC intermediate cartridge - is rejected as non-piercing ESAPI body armor.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 12 August 2019 01: 13
          0
          I mean, it’s impossible to replace hand weapons under automatic / intermediate cartridge, other weapons under rifle ammunition! Цэ цілковита нісенітниця! Impasible !!!
          they can rivet all the more and more new and new nekst-gene vapon programs until the end, but it’s all just drank to the state budget.
          How many have already been there? every couple of years they start a new program, the result is ZERO!

          PS: want to punch? Norma Magnum in their hands. There, SIG-Sauers on AUSA18 presented both the SL MAG light machine gun and even the prototype carbine MCX MR for this munition.
          What does a multi-caliber machine gun have: 7.62 NATO / Norma Magnum




  24. Operator
    Operator 12 August 2019 02: 49
    -1
    Quote: psiho117
    it is impossible to replace a hand weapon with an automatic / intermediate cartridge, with another weapon with a rifle ammunition

    You can: if the automatic weapon is replaced by a self-loading - see the requirements of the NGSW-R program.
    1. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 4 September 2019 06: 54
      0
      We see the embodiment of the concept of increasing the range of work with the arrow. It is obvious that in order to minimize their losses from the riflemen, they are trying to make sure that their rifle battle is conducted by their side for 1 km
      No queues are needed here. But you need optics, rangefinder and a completely new soldier in terms of training

      the cartridge was taken not 6,8 Rem ATP and not 6,5 Grendel, that is, not intermediate, but actually a rifle in power, just a little shortened overall (it is 308 in length but the sleeve is thicker). Ideologically, this is Short Magnum, high pressure
      The closest analogue to 270WSM, it is even more powerful than 260 Rem teammates - that is, 6.5 rounds based on a 308 sleeve
      This will entail the replacement of stores and ALL ammunition ...
      Roughly speaking, they definitely returned to the concept of Fedorov’s cartridge, whose 6,5 mm cartridge was a light rifle and not an intermediate one
      Ballistics certainly inspires - 6,5 mm bullet weighing 9 g at a speed of 975 m / s from the barrel in only 14 ”!
      Of course, here without a suppressor it’s not an option at all.
      And the cartridge in size is 308, but also thicker than it
      Shop at the rifle in the photo - apparently twenty
      I do not know what they will have with the resource of the trunk
      1. Operator
        Operator 4 September 2019 11: 37
        0
        From left to right: 5,56х45х10 NATO, 7,62х51х12 NATO, 6,8х51х14 Sheffield