Military Review

The advent of battle lasers. 4 August 2019 year

225
Really important news often go unnoticed. They occur, no one notices them, but the events mentioned in this news often have consequences that later, having developed to a large scale, make observers gasp - and it’s good, if only out of surprise.


The advent of battle lasers. 4 August 2019 year

Chinese-made UAV - the first victim of combat lasers in this war


On 4 of August 2019 of the year one of these events occurred, mentioned in such news, but not noticed by anyone.

For the first time, a combat vehicle armed with a combat laser destroyed another combat vehicle on the battlefield. In a real war, on a real battlefield.

And no one noticed.

Unexpected leader


Turkey is not accepted in the ranks of the countries-innovators in military affairs. But it seems that they will be able to surprise the population of the planet in this century. The Turks took a powerful start as an industrial force, and any participant in military tenders in the Islamic world knows what strength they have already gained. The fact that it is the Turks who build skyscrapers in Russia is also no secret.

Recently, there have been rumors about Turkish plans to build a springboard aircraft carrier, similar in “ideology” to Vikramaditye or Kuznetsov. The Turks participated in the F-35 program precisely as a manufacturer of components and plan to create their own combat aircraft. But that's all for now.

But with combat lasers it turned out differently.

Turkey, preoccupied with achieving military superiority in the region, as well as gaining qualitative advantages in military power over Greece and Russia (and, apparently, also over Israel), has long and seriously invested in innovative systems weapons, including weapons based on new technical principles. As early as the beginning of the 2010's, the Turkish company SAVTAG demonstrated experimental samples of plants of different capacities, starting from 1,25 kW, and then to 50 kW. The systems were created in conjunction with TUBITAK, a state research institute. The Turks showed these systems as technology demonstrators, and did not particularly hide the fact that they plan to use these developments as weapons.

However, they managed to put all the observers on the wrong track - reports from both the Turkish Ministry of Defense press releases and the specialized press hinted that Turkish laser weapons would be primarily produced for the Navy, and in general, repeats the American work. Nobody was particularly interested then. Well, the Turks ... Well, they want lasers ... So what?

In 2015, TUBITAK announced that experimental lasers successfully hit targets. Then it became known that the program was funded - it turned out that the Turks were pouring a lot of money into laser weapons - only in 2015, 450 million US dollars were spent on the program. For a country that has access to all Western technologies and already saves a lot of money on R&D, this was a very impressive amount. And, one must understand that other years did not differ much from 2015. Nevertheless, experts of most countries of the world Turkish progress, as they say, slammed.

In the same year, it became known that the Aselsan holding, the largest Turkish military-industrial corporation, took the Turkish laser weapons program “under the wing”.

On 7 on July 2018, the company issued a press release stating that it had successfully tested a combat laser capable of hitting small-sized UAVs from 500 meters, as well as destroying explosive devices from 200 meters. The compact laser gun was installed on the Turkish Otokar Cobra armored car, and, most importantly, was equipped with a guidance system that allows you to continuously hold the laser marker on target.

Laser power cannot be compared with any kinetic ammunition. It is insignificant. A projectile from an 76-mm cannon gives the target such energy that the laser can tell the target only by heating a single point for a very long time and continuously. And this is exactly what the specialists in optoelectronic systems from Aselsan achieved. Their gun could “cling” to a specific point on the target and “warm” it until it was completely destroyed. Even if the target was moving.

And that all changed.


"Cobra" armed with a laser gun mount from Aselsan


In a press release, Aselsan emphasized that she was able to achieve reliable target tracking, continuous laser operation and an extremely low shooting cost. The latter is obvious. Where a conventional cannon spends a projectile that doesn’t have to hit the target at all, a low-power laser gun requires only diesel fuel for the generator.

The company showed a photo of a machine armed with a laser, and a video presentation showing the results of firing at metal plates.



Sensation, however, did not happen, and the news in the world was met quite calmly. No less calmly, the Turks continued to work on laser weapons. They knew that the most interesting press releases about their products were yet to come.

Erdogan Libyan War


The ongoing war in Libya did not go as Recep Tayyip Erdogan would have liked: the Islamists on whom he put lose. This problem did not arise yesterday, and the Turks have been opposing the Libyan National Army of Khalifa Haftar for quite some time. The latter has the support of a wide variety of countries and forces - from Saudi Arabia and the USA to Russia and France. Russian mercenaries and pilot mercenaries Eric Prince, the founder of Blackwater, are working at Haftar. MiG-23, specially repaired for his Air Force, are being brought from Haftar to Russia, and from the UAE are the “Shell” air defense system for protection against air strikes. And Haftar is slowly but surely winning.

And Erdogan again, as elsewhere, set the wrong horse. As in Syria, as in Egypt, in Libya, those forces that Turkey regarded as friendly and relied on failed. True, in Libya, the Turks are still counting on something. Turkey continues to support the so-called “government” and its friendly Misurat groups. Turkey supplied and is delivering heavy weapons to these groups, sending advisers and instructors. Seeing that this was not enough, the Turks began to transfer to Libya the militants previously employed in the Idlib province in Syria. We will not delve into the course of this distant war from us, something else is important to us.

The synthesis of the need for Turkey to stop Haftar, on the one hand, and advanced high-tech weapons, which have no world analogues without discounts, on the other, should have happened sooner or later. And he happened.

4 August 2019 year


For operators of the UAE-owned UAV Wing Loong II, a Chinese-made aircraft, this was an ordinary reconnaissance and combat mission. Their drone armed with an anti-tank missile barraged over the Misurata area, conducting reconnaissance in the interests of Haftar’s troops and looking for targets that could be destroyed by a direct attack. The war in Libya has long taken the form of a bizarre mixture of the actions of irregular formations and weapons, created on the basis of the most advanced technologies, and UAVs were one of the symbols of such a mixture. The departure, however, ended with the UAV being shot down.

And soon the world flew around the photo.










Downed UAV from different angles



The burn that destroyed the UAV


The details immediately became known. The Turkish installation, which shot down the UAV, is mounted on the chassis of an off-road armored car. Like the earlier Aselsan model, it is equipped with a Turkish-made optoelectronic guidance system. The system allows you to accurately inspect the target for firing, to select a vulnerable point, and then hold the laser marker on this point until the target is completely destroyed. Also, as with the previously demonstrated laser gun, a continuous radiation mode is provided, without long interruptions to the "pumping" of the laser. Gun power - 50 kW. This is so far the most powerful combat laser in the Turkish ground combat vehicle.


"Laser combat vehicle", so to speak. The same applies now in Libya


An important point is not an experimental setup. This is a fully functional combat vehicle armed with a laser gun. And she had just been tested in battle, and not at all against the "commercial" drone with E-bay. Such a gun could well bring down an unarmored helicopter, and easily. And Turkey can build such weapons in large quantities without any problems - now. And this is a tactical weapon, it does not need any special transportation conditions, a laser-armed combat vehicle has the same level of mobility as any other armored car of the same type. Ordinary soldiers, including conscripts, may well use these weapons. And the cost of firing this gun in the literal sense of the word is equal to the price of diesel fuel spent during the shooting. Let's just say, an unarmored helicopter takes about twenty-five rubles, approximately.

Will this episode be the start of a "laser weapon race"? Let's make a prediction: no, it won't. The epoch-making news, as they say, did not thunder. Well, who are the Turks in the world of war industry, right?

The Turks will continue to improve their weapons, and no one will pay attention to them. And so it will be until, in some other war, Turkish laser cannons on armored personnel carriers and tanks they will not massively burn out optical-electronic sights of enemy equipment, burn engines to unarmored vehicles, shoot down helicopters and UAVs, disable aircraft standing on the ground from a long distance, mow down infantry without noise and external unmasking signs. And then everyone will shudder ...

Entertaining in all this stories is how essentially beginners in the laser topic occupy that niche in which the "grandees" of laser business, such as Russia and the USA, do not even think to climb. They occupy successfully and very quickly, building already practically serial military equipment faster than their competitors in the world read news about it - literally. This is all the more surprising because both Russia and the United States are superior to the Turks in laser technology and, in theory, should “attack with the threat of loss of advantage” - work ahead of the curve. There is something touched, and incomparable with Turkish, and there is some experience, we still have from Afghanistan. And a much more complex set for much more complex tasks, “Relight”, is already in operation in Russia. And the United States has a “working” ship installation. In a single, however, instance.

But ground-based combat vehicles with tactical-level lasers are not being built and used in Russia or the United States. This is done by the Turks, and the transition of the quantity of their work to the quality of technology as a whole to a new level is a matter of the very near future. They will grow the faster the greater their combat experience. As well as not far off “acquaintance” of the enemies of Turkey with what a combat laser is in its own skin - in the truest sense of this expression. In the future laser arms race, the Turks have already claimed a prize for themselves, and it is not a fact that this place will not be the first in the end.
Author:
Photos used:
Aselsan, TUBITAK, Alpay Osmanoglu, The Tripolitanian (twitter), The Libya Observer
225 comments
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  1. Flamberg
    Flamberg 6 August 2019 04: 42
    +4
    In the future laser arms race, the Turks have already claimed a prize for themselves, and it is not a fact that this place will not be the first in the end.
    It is not a problem to create a sufficiently powerful and efficient laser, a problem is to create a battery for it. How to create a compact and powerful generator, so you can talk about the prospects of the laser.
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 August 2019 07: 27
      +1
      Quote: Flamberg
      It is not a problem to create a sufficiently powerful and efficient laser, a problem is to create a battery for it.

      The huge problem is to create a powerful and efficient laser.

      Quote: shinobi
      I will say more, compact lasers up to 1 megawatt (the size of a home refrigerator) are far from news and are widely used in the aerospace industry for precise "cutting" of metal products.

      Can you tell us more about "compact lasers up to 1 megawatt (the size of a home refrigerator)"? The bourgeois hardly reached a power of 150 kilowatts, despite the fact that their laser weighed 750 kg !!!

      Their goal is to make a laser where for every kilowatt 5 kg of weight will fall. Total 5 tons (Karl) per megawatt. Materiel however. fellow
      https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/08/us-targets-a-megawatt-laser-by-2023-and-then-deployment-in-drones-and-satellites-for-hypersonic-and-icbm-defense.html

      PS
      And here they write that the 1000 kilowatt laser will be created only between the 2025 and 2026 years ...
      https://www.militaryaerospace.com/sensors/article/16722085/military-eyes-prototype-megawattclass-laser-weapon-for-ballistic-missile-defense-in-next-seven-years
      1. Flamberg
        Flamberg 6 August 2019 08: 12
        +3
        The bourgeois with difficulty reached a power of 150 kilowatts despite the fact that their laser weighed 750 kg !!!
        Was it a pure laser or the whole installation? With a generator, drive, SLA?
        1. Professor
          Professor 6 August 2019 08: 23
          +2
          Everything about everything 750 kg with the size of the refrigerator and power in 150 kilowatts in the ground version.
          The High Energy Liquid Laser Area Defense System (HELLADS) will weigh just 750 kilograms and fit into a space about the size of a large refrigerator.
          1. Flamberg
            Flamberg 6 August 2019 08: 40
            +2
            That's the question, how much of the 750 kg is the battery, and how much is the laser itself.
            1. Professor
              Professor 6 August 2019 09: 09
              -4
              Quote: Flamberg
              That's the question, how much of the 750 kg is the battery, and how much is the laser itself.

              It does not matter since these things are not separate and make up a single system. He puts this system on a truck, launches it on board an airplane or into space.
              1. Flamberg
                Flamberg 6 August 2019 09: 16
                +7
                What does it mean does not matter? There can be a 50kg laser, 100kg SLA, it goes to a 600kg power source. I kind of wrote in Russian that the laser problem in the power source or what?
                1. Professor
                  Professor 6 August 2019 09: 36
                  -3
                  Quote: Flamberg
                  What does it mean does not matter? There can be a 50kg laser, 100kg SLA, it goes to a 600kg power source. I kind of wrote in Russian that the laser problem in the power source or what?

                  Irrelevant. What is the specific gravity of the battery in your cell phone? Does that make any sense? After all, you carry the entire mobile phone in your pocket, and not in parts. Moreover, in advanced devices, the battery is not removed at all.

                  The same situation with the laser. For the user, the size of the diode itself does not matter. It is a few centimeters. Weight and dimensions are important whole system. It is her weight that they are trying to cram in 4-5 kg for every kilowatt of output energy.

                  You wrote the wrong things in Russian. The power supply is not a problem for the laser. In your opinion, the nuclear power plant does not have enough energy to power the laser counter-air defense of this station? If there is a lot of energy, why is there no laser there with an output to the terawatt that will guarantee to bring down everything and everyone? Why in California they conduct experiments using simultaneously 192 (one hundred ninety-two) lasers if one can create the same power?
                  1. Flamberg
                    Flamberg 6 August 2019 09: 49
                    +4
                    The same situation with the laser. For the user, the size of the diode itself does not matter. It is a few centimeters. The overall dimensions of the entire system are important. It is her weight that they are trying to cram at 4-5 kg ​​per kilowatt of output energy.

                    Comrade, you're really in an armored train ...
                    I repeat to you again whole system problem This power supply is powerful and compact.
                    The power supply is not a problem for the laser.
                    Gloom ... An energy source for energy weapons is not a problem ... Well, think of a chamera a trailer from a truck with a power source to attach ... what problems can there be ... fool
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 6 August 2019 09: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Comrade, you're really in an armored train ...
                      I repeat the problem to you once again all systems are a powerful and compact power source.

                      1. Get excited.
                      2. The power supply is not a problem for the laser. In your opinion, the nuclear power plant does not have enough energy to power the laser counter-air defense of this station? If there is a lot of energy, why is there no laser there with an output to the terawatt that will guarantee to bring down everything and everyone? Why in California they conduct experiments using simultaneously 192 (one hundred ninety-two) lasers if one can create the same power?

                      Quote: Flamberg
                      Gloom ... An energy source for energy weapons is not a problem ... Well, think of a chamera a trailer from a truck with a power source to attach ... what problems can there be ...

                      It is not a problem. Before you twist your finger at your temple, divide the output power by the laser efficiency and you will be surprised at how much energy is needed even for a megawatt laser. So why is there no megawatt laser today if the energy to power it is sea?
                      1. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 10: 02
                        +2
                        The power supply is not a problem for the laser. In your opinion, the nuclear power plant does not have enough energy to power the laser counter-air defense of this station? If there is a lot of energy, why is there no laser there with an output to the terawatt that will guarantee to bring down everything and everything? Why in California they conduct experiments using simultaneously 192 (one hundred ninety-two) lasers if one can create the same power?
                        I don’t know. Enlighten.
                        It is not a problem. Before you twist your finger at your temple, divide the output power by the laser efficiency and you will be surprised at how much energy is needed even for a megawatt laser.

                        Don't be smart. Is one megawatt not much? Many and without a good power source or a "shot" once an hour or a trailer from a truck.
                        So why is there no megawatt laser today if the energy to power it is sea?
                        Probably the secrets of Tesla were not revealed and we are not able to transfer energy from nuclear power plants without wires.
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 6 August 2019 10: 12
                        +1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        I don’t know. Enlighten.

                        Patamushta restriction in laser technology today is not a power source. They have a power supply for 192's lasers at the same time, but there is no one laser with equivalent power. fellow
                        https://www.forbes.com/sites/braze/2019/07/25/mobile-transformation-hinges-on-flexible-technology-ecosystem/#3e8e499211a9

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Don't be smart. Is one megawatt not much? Many and without a good power source or a "shot" once an hour or a trailer from a truck.

                        No, not much. If you want to shoot short pulses (a megawatt laser should "burn" only from 2 to 60 seconds), then you don't need a megawatt power source at all. You can accumulate energy for a long time and tediously. We are talking about long impulses with a power of megawatts. With an efficiency of 48%, 2 megawatts of energy is enough for you.

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Probably the secrets of Tesla were not revealed and we are not able to transfer energy from nuclear power plants without wires.

                        Who does religion forbid to stretch wires from a nuclear power plant to a laser protecting this same nuclear power plant?

                        PS
                        As I understand it, I post links for myself. request
                      3. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 10: 19
                        -4
                        Patamushta restriction in laser technology today is not a power source. They have a power supply for 192 lasers at the same time, but there is no one laser with equivalent power. fellow
                        https://www.forbes.com/sites/braze/2019/07/25/mobile-transformation-hinges-on-flexible-technology-ecosystem/#3e8e499211a9
                        This is not an answer. The link generally opens some heresy.
                        No, not much. If you want to shoot short pulses (a megawatt laser should "burn" only from 2 to 60 seconds), then you don't need a megawatt power source at all. You can accumulate energy for a long time and tediously. We are talking about long impulses with a power of megawatts. With an efficiency of 48%, 2 megawatts of energy is enough for you.
                        Well, yes, for 60 seconds, enabling 2000 dummies is not a problem.
                        Who does religion forbid to stretch wires from a nuclear power plant to a laser protecting this same nuclear power plant?
                        To nobody. Like no one forbids to enclose nuclear power plants with an anti-tank ditch and minefields.
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 6 August 2019 11: 50
                        +3
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        This is not an answer. The link generally opens some heresy.

                        Well I do not know. It opens normally for me. Once again I answer at your request. Today, restrictions on the laser output are not limitations on the power source, but on the laser itself. You can’t pump the laser ad infinitum ...

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Well, yes, for 60 seconds, enabling 2000 dummies is not a problem.

                        No problem. The phase 3 amperes each from the electric company 40 approaches my home. I and my neighbors can power a laser that will be developed in 6-7 years. Moreover, the laser efficiency will improve and, accordingly, the power consumption will fall.

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        To nobody. Like no one forbids to enclose nuclear power plants with an anti-tank ditch and minefields.

                        You’ll laugh, but the nuclear plants are protected from a foot attack so that minefields and anti-tank ditches are not needed. But from the air, nuclear power plants are protected by the old, not unreliable method. The aerodynamic goals are still somewhat knocked down, but with ballistic goals the most that there is a problem. A megawatt laser would be quite out of place. And even better, a dozen of these lasers.
                      5. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 12: 00
                        -1
                        Well I do not know. It opens normally for me. Once again I answer at your request. Today, restrictions on the laser output are not limitations on the power source, but on the laser itself. You can’t pump the laser ad infinitum ...
                        It also opens normally for me, only in terms of content it has nothing to do with lasers. I'm not saying that the laser should be infinitely powerful.
                        No problem. The phase 3 amperes each from the electric company 40 approaches my home. I and my neighbors can power a laser that will be developed in 6-7 years. Moreover, the laser efficiency will improve and, accordingly, the power consumption will fall.
                        220 * 40 * 3 = 26400W, even if 380 then 45,6 kW, is not some kind of cosmic achievement.
                        You’ll laugh, but the nuclear plants are protected from a foot attack so that minefields and anti-tank ditches are not needed. But from the air, nuclear power plants are protected by the old, not unreliable method. The aerodynamic goals are still somewhat knocked down, but with ballistic goals the most that there is a problem. A megawatt laser would be quite out of place. And even better, a dozen of these lasers.
                        And they don’t put it because there are no such lasers?
                      6. Professor
                        Professor 6 August 2019 12: 51
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        It also opens normally for me, only in terms of content it has nothing to do with lasers. I'm not saying that the laser should be infinitely powerful.


                        World's Largest Laser Could Solve Our Energy Problems

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        220 * 40 * 3 = 26400W, even if 380 then 45,6 kW, is not some kind of cosmic achievement.

                        Exactly. Total 25 20 of my neighbors will be pulled by a megawatt laser.

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        And they don’t put it because there are no such lasers?

                        Well, finally it dawned on you.
                        There will be such lasers years through 7.

                        PS
                        We have three phases for 400 volts.
                      7. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 12: 53
                        -2
                        Exactly. Only 25 of my neighbors will pull a megawatt laser.
                        Is this a joke or something? Just half the street.
                        Well, finally it dawned on you.
                        There will be such lasers years through 7.

                        Boeing YAL-1
                      8. Professor
                        Professor 6 August 2019 12: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Is this a joke or something? Just half the street.

                        I live in a private house. My colleagues are in homes where on 90 apartments. A third of their homes are powered by a laser.

                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Boeing YAL-1

                        Where? When? How?
                      9. asv363
                        asv363 6 August 2019 20: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        And they don’t put it because there are no such lasers?

                        They put air defense, from Tor-2U to C300.
                      10. asv363
                        asv363 6 August 2019 19: 48
                        +1
                        The purpose of the experiment was to create the conditions for thermonuclear fusion. 192 stadium lasers were used to uniformly compress and heat. And in principle, they were kicked out of the stadium a long time ago, and the project was severely cut funding, if not completely closed.
                      11. ser56
                        ser56 21 August 2019 13: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        then you don’t need a megawatt power supply at all.

                        However, you will need a power storage and switch ... bully
                        Quote: Professor
                        With an efficiency of 48%, you have 2 megawatts

                        if not a secret - what pulsed laser has such an efficiency? hi
                      12. krot
                        krot 6 August 2019 18: 16
                        +2
                        What kind of "expert" wrote the article? Is there a laser hole in a drone? Who saw burns in metal with metal ends rounded inward !? Moreover, the hole is not quite even, which should be from the beam. All the rest of the writing loses its meaning.
                      13. tracer
                        tracer 7 August 2019 03: 19
                        -1
                        This pressed fiberglass is most likely.
                      14. Victor Pryanichnikov
                        Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 22: 51
                        0
                        The hole owes nothing to anyone, anything can be
                    2. Sancho_SP
                      Sancho_SP 6 August 2019 10: 03
                      +3
                      I will correct you only in that the problem with the energy source is up to a certain scale. For hand weapons that is.

                      Well, a large infantry fighting vehicle or tank, and so the engine is almost a megawatt. A modern generator (the electric machine itself) is a rather compact thing.

                      Plus, such a chic reason to switch to electric transmission)
                      1. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 10: 11
                        -5
                        Well, if there is no problem, why does nobody really use lasers?
                      2. Sancho_SP
                        Sancho_SP 6 August 2019 10: 18
                        +4
                        Because the problem is to create the laser itself.
                      3. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 10: 20
                        -1
                        Yes? And what exactly is this problem? The laser principle is as simple as 2 pennies.
                      4. Sancho_SP
                        Sancho_SP 6 August 2019 10: 23
                        +5
                        The problem is that no one has yet created a compact laser of sufficient power, contrary to your statement above.

                        Otherwise, “megawatts the size of a refrigerator,” or even a wagon, would already be on the same zwomalt or another ship, where five megawatts of power are not a problem.
                      5. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 10: 41
                        +2
                        And maybe just because the laser is easy to counteract and do not do it just because nobody seriously uses the laser.
                      6. Sancho_SP
                        Sancho_SP 6 August 2019 10: 44
                        +1
                        Well, then give an example (with reference) of a "megawatt laser" suitable for installation at least on a ship.
                      7. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 10: 47
                        -3
                        Boeing YAL-1
                      8. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 6 August 2019 16: 46
                        +6
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        Boeing YAL-1

                        The program which was eventually covered up.
                        First, it is chemical laser. More precisely, a six-module IR chemical oxygen-iodine laser (COIL), in which each module weighed 3 tons. Moreover, he worked in a pulsed mode.
                        Secondly, for his work chlorine gas, molecular iodine, a solution of hydrogen peroxide and potassium hydroxide are fed into the laser. And now we’ll go to the battlefield with all this. smile
                        Thirdly, during the operation of the laser, the flow velocity in the reaction and generation region approaches the speed of sound. Ideal for ground laser. smile
                      9. Flamberg
                        Flamberg 6 August 2019 17: 04
                        -1
                        1mw laser? At 1 MW! wink
                      10. Professor
                        Professor 6 August 2019 20: 05
                        -1
                        Quote: Flamberg
                        1mw laser? At 1 MW! wink

                        No. Not 1 Megawatt, but "megawatt class". How much he developed is not clear, but it is clear that now the Americans promise to create Megawatts only after 7 years.
                      11. ser56
                        ser56 21 August 2019 13: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        Now the Americans promise to create a megawatt in only 7 years.

                        promise is not bad ...
                      12. ser56
                        ser56 21 August 2019 13: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Alexey RA
                        And now we will go to the battlefield with all this

                        But what is more dangerous than a conventional explosive? bully
                      13. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 21 August 2019 13: 23
                        0
                        Quote: ser56
                        But what is more dangerous than a conventional explosive?

                        The presence of chlorine in the starting components. And we still have to see what it will have in the exhaust. So you can get into the category of "weapons of mass destruction". smile
                      14. adept666
                        adept666 7 August 2019 16: 50
                        +1
                        Yes? And what exactly is this problem? The laser principle is as simple as 2 pennies

                        The problem is in focusing systems (lens), more than one suitable material can not withstand such an energy flux and, in fact, the setup itself will melt from the interaction of the atmosphere and the photon flux at the exit after the lens. To do this, an adaptive lens is used, roughly speaking, many low-power lasers focusing at one point in space, which is very difficult to ensure (this is the only way to create something of the megawatt class) that can work at least somehow.
                      15. ser56
                        ser56 21 August 2019 13: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Sancho_SP
                        then the problem is to create the laser itself.

                        not only - the laser hits only in a straight line ... request
                      16. Operator
                        Operator 6 August 2019 10: 25
                        0
                        Silicon carbide laser diodes with a specific power of 25 kW per square cm in the form of a matrix are scaled to megawatts, the problem is in another - a matrix cooling system operating with an efficiency of 50%.
                      17. mmaxx
                        mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 06
                        +1
                        The problem has not been with the laser for a long time. These lasers are designed for every taste and size. And just that the Turks decided. Pointing to one point.
                  2. skif8013
                    skif8013 7 August 2019 19: 31
                    +1
                    Irrelevant. What is the specific gravity of the battery in your cell phone? Does that make any sense? After all, you carry the entire mobile phone in your pocket, and not in parts. Moreover, in advanced devices, the battery is not removed at all.
                    Dear, and if the battery of your mobile weighed 5 kilograms for example. You carried it in what pocket ?!
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Operator
          Operator 6 August 2019 10: 26
          +3
          Which is cheaper - a laser system or MANPADS?
          1. Sancho_SP
            Sancho_SP 6 August 2019 10: 45
            +2
            On the first shot, it is likely that MANPADS. But on the thousandth ..
            1. bk316
              bk316 6 August 2019 11: 53
              +2
              But in the thousandth.

              And for the thousandth in a laser installation, the dofig will have to be changed, for example, in drives.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 6 August 2019 16: 49
            +3
            Quote: Operator
            Which is cheaper - a laser system or MANPADS?

            Good question.
            But there is one more thing - what to do with those goals that MANPADS do not capture?
            1. Operator
              Operator 6 August 2019 16: 54
              -3
              Change the matrix seeker to an HD video camera from a smartphone - at the same time, and the price will decrease.

              To deal with low-speed drones, penny rocket-propelled grenade launchers equipped with homing grenades with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead and the same HD video camera are even more suitable.

              And then a little squeak from the sky is heard - give me a megawatt laser right away (the budget is visible, however) laughing
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 6 August 2019 18: 06
                +5
                Quote: Operator
                Change the matrix seeker to an HD video camera from a smartphone - at the same time, and the price will decrease.
                To deal with low-speed drones, penny rocket-propelled grenade launchers equipped with homing grenades with a high-explosive fragmentation warhead and the same HD video camera are even more suitable.
                And then a little squeak from the sky is heard - give me a megawatt laser right away (the budget is visible, however)

                It is best to cut the budget just on "cheap homing grenades". Because, firstly, they will come out as a result not a penny, but, secondly, you think - how many such grenade launchers and grenades can be pushed into the armed forces - "give a fighter with an UAV in each platoon!".

                In general, with lasers, everything depends on the effective range. Because at a distance of up to 2 km, instead of a "laser with a unique system of keeping the beam at one point of the target", it is easier to install an uninhabited module with a 14,5-mm CPV (with MDZ bullets) and an optoelectronic guidance system. smile
              2. Slon379
                Slon379 6 August 2019 23: 10
                +1
                Moreover, all megawatts will go down the drain when a small cloud appears. He is very weather dependent on this laser.
                1. Shopping Mall
                  Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 07: 44
                  0
                  Quote: Slon379
                  Moreover, all megawatts will go down the drain when a small cloud appears. He is very weather dependent on this laser.


                  Do not leave, it will weaken the radiation of interest on 20.
                  Heavy fog when shooting along the ground (namely along, not higher than 50 meters), yes, it will weaken more. And with increasing altitude, the transparency of the atmosphere increases.
                  1. Victor Pryanichnikov
                    Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 00
                    0
                    Right on 20? And of course, you know nothing about non-linear effects. About turbulence too?
      3. bk316
        bk316 6 August 2019 11: 51
        +1
        Huge problem

        Well you professor at first inattentively read and then yulit.
        They write to you
        compact and powerful generator,

        how much of a 750 kg battery

        50kg laser, 100kg control system, 600kg goes to the power source.


        Are you irrelevant
        In your opinion, the nuclear power plant does not have enough energy to power the laser counter-air defense of this station?

        You yourself know the answer, because it will be not air defense but air defense of nuclear power plants which no one needs.

        They have a power supply for 192 lasers at the same time, but there is no one laser with equivalent power.

        Are you so joking? Not funny.

        The main problem of laser weapons is the lack of a compact power source.
        Other problems are less significant.
        Yes they are
        - Actually the power of the laser itself
        heat removal
        - laser retention system on target

        BUT IF MAKING A COMPACT SOURCE OF MEGAWATIC CLASS all other problems will be solved or bypassed
        1. bayard
          bayard 7 August 2019 00: 42
          +2
          Quote: bk316

          BUT IF MAKING A COMPACT SOURCE OF MEGAWATIC CLASS all other problems will be solved or bypassed

          Capacitor. With power from a diesel or turbo generator. Already found and are actively improving. The problem with the effectiveness of a laser as an air defense system is the strong attenuation and scattering in the atmosphere. It is not suitable for long distances, especially if haze, fog, cloudiness, just high humidity.
          But in the tactical link and in the conditions of Libya it turned out. The Turks. But here in the Baltic states, Siberia, in the Arctic, it is unlikely to succeed. The Turks made a laser for their own theater. And they can be congratulated.
          And in our conditions it is more rational to use the ZPU combat module. And in the Middle East theater too.
      4. yehat
        yehat 6 August 2019 13: 15
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        The huge problem is to create a powerful and efficient laser.

        Now the problem is only in size and efficiency
        but soon even powerful lasers will be semiconductor, which is compact and not the last.
        a small revolution in optics has already taken place, which allows us to make compact focusing and sighting devices
        all this is just a problem of investment, not technology.
        The problem remains only heavy-duty lasers for long-range exposure, which the Americans put on a Boeing. But for simple tactical purposes, everything is much simpler.
        1. bk316
          bk316 6 August 2019 19: 48
          0
          Now the problem is only in size and efficiency

          That's right, but I'm not sure about it
          but soon even powerful lasers will be semiconductor

          there is a theoretical limit there.
          1. yehat
            yehat 7 August 2019 10: 32
            0
            Yes there is no limit. no one canceled a death star to collect a beam from several sources.
            1. bk316
              bk316 7 August 2019 18: 35
              0
              no one canceled a death star to collect a beam from several sources.

              Only 10 kilowatt lasers is not one 10 kilowatt laser. Does the word coherence say nothing? laughing
              1. Victor Pryanichnikov
                Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 02
                0
                There are non-trivial difficulties with phasing lasers, if you mean it
    2. Olfred
      Olfred 6 August 2019 14: 08
      0
      the problem is to create a battery for him.
      I agree, for some reason, our overexposure is a complex of several caravans, and here is a jeep. Not otherwise, the Turks guessed the secret of energy transfer ... hi
      1. yehat
        yehat 7 August 2019 12: 17
        0
        Quote: OlfRed
        I agree, for some reason, our overexposure is a complex of several caravans, and here is a jeep.

        Can you put a welding arc machine in a jeep?
        here the laser is the same, only the efficiency is about 4-5 times lower and as indicated, there is a problem of accurate focusing during the period.
        1. Olfred
          Olfred 7 August 2019 12: 31
          0
          sorry, but where does it
          can you put a welding arc machine in a jeep?
          Does it seem to you, dear, that these are several "other" systems ... We were not given the characteristics - power, consumption, what is pumping there ... So you said about efficiency, then the more the question arises - where to get energy and opportunity keep the laser working for a certain time, therefore, it must still carry a trailer, in general there are more questions than information in general ... This is what I'm telling you as a sofa specialist ... wassat hi
          1. yehat
            yehat 7 August 2019 12: 34
            +1
            Quote: OlfRed
            he must still drag the trailer

            In my yard, in my childhood, a tractor Belarus often traveled with a trailer for an arc welding generator
            in both jeeps, which are shown in the photo, this device fits with a bang
            moreover, he even gets into the trunk of my car.
            and the Turks, I’m sure, have a much better product.
            1. Olfred
              Olfred 7 August 2019 12: 46
              0
              Ie you are only confused by the size of the "box", like it will not fit, and the rest is 10 ... I probably do not understand something. There are no MBs at all
              arc welding machine
              , and the laser power comes from the nearest power line, then I have no questions
              1. yehat
                yehat 7 August 2019 12: 50
                +2
                probably we have discrepancies in the required power.
                I think that 300 kilowatts were enough for the Turks
                a compact generator with such power make a problem?
                in my opinion this can be done even with a gasoline engine, and with a turbine of the same size - even more powerful.

                why i took 300
                in the laboratory, an x-ray laser with such power burned 3 mm steel in front of my eyes. Not immediately, but in a few seconds.
                1. Olfred
                  Olfred 7 August 2019 13: 07
                  0
                  probably we have discrepancies in the required power.
                  most likely, there is not much power laughing
                  I think that 300 kilowatts were enough for the Turks
                  a compact generator with such power make a problem?
                  here, I agree with you, but I’m not sure of the other - will there be enough power for a greater distance, how long will it burn? As I understand it, it all the same seems to be not only in power (I contradict myself), namely in aiming and holding the target, that is, to hold the laser focus for longer ... But damn it is somehow solid and not guaranteed, the target can already or fly away or do nasty things, but again there was a test of the pen and flaws with errors will be fixed, and so the Turks are great, we would have poured so much dough, but into science hi
                  1. Oquzyurd
                    Oquzyurd 7 August 2019 13: 33
                    0
                    The annual expenses of the Turks for the development of laser technology are equal to 450-480 million dollars. over the past 10 years. That is, over 10 years they spent about 4.5 mln.dol. to develop this industry.
                2. Victor Pryanichnikov
                  Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 05
                  0
                  What is that X-ray laser there? Really with a nuclear pump, like the Americans? laughing
        2. bk316
          bk316 7 August 2019 18: 38
          0
          Can you put a welding arc machine in a jeep?

          What kind of welding machine is 50 kW?
          Is that cooking with two-centimeter electrodes?
    3. mmaxx
      mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 04
      +1
      .
      Quote: Flamberg
      In the future laser arms race, the Turks have already claimed a prize for themselves, and it is not a fact that this place will not be the first in the end.
      It is not a problem to create a sufficiently powerful and efficient laser, a problem is to create a battery for it. How to create a compact and powerful generator, so you can talk about the prospects of the laser.

      When T. Edison learned about the flight of the Wright brothers, he said that their plane was a useless contraption, since it could not take off vertically. Airplanes still take off not vertically
  2. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 6 August 2019 04: 43
    +4
    Turks have always been distinguished by their pragmatism ... There is an interesting "little thing", you have to adapt! They took, and collected ... Shahid-mobile with a laser. It is quite possible that both the industrial and the guidance system were not "invented", but adapted from something quite utilitarian ... And well done! Wipe your nose on everyone who picks him up. wassat
    1. Olfred
      Olfred 7 August 2019 12: 46
      0
      Shahid mobile with a laser.
      no one will give you such technology, and even more so barmaley
  3. tracer
    tracer 6 August 2019 04: 57
    +1
    I immediately noticed in the photo that there was practically no blow to the ground. It feels like the drone was burned on the ground. Although who knows, maybe he tried to sit while planning.
  4. shinobi
    shinobi 6 August 2019 05: 49
    +4
    The author thickened the paint a little. An experimental laser, even though a serial car does not yet have a prototype. I will say more, compact lasers up to 1 megawatt (the size of a home refrigerator) are far from news and are widely used in the aerospace industry for precise "cutting" of metal products. This is where, for whatever reason, plasma cutters cannot be used, not new in short. Here is the marker retention system, yes, it is of interest. And then, only in terms of technical solutions. Now the development of combat lasers is on the path of reducing the pumping time of short-pulse systems. The prospect is behind them. There the scheme is such that during the interval between pulses the system is re-aimed from one target to another. That is, one millisecond pulse should be enough to destroy the object. Ideally.
    1. Butchcassidy
      Butchcassidy 6 August 2019 08: 37
      +1
      .Here is the marker retention system yes, it is of interest.

      I agree, everything else is not very good. Even if you imagine that a laser tachanka was hit by a Chinese drone, it is completely incomprehensible under what conditions. According to the declared characteristics, the ceiling at it reaches 5000 m. If the Turks could be able to point and constantly keep on heating the point on the drone at such a distance in height and the hell marks at what distance in length, then yes, it would be a fierce win! The text says that in July 2018, a 500 m range threshold was set. Theoretically, if a drone that lost control was slowly planning at a low altitude and was accidentally shot down by a crew or a specially located crew on a Turkish laser cart, then it’s not clear which side it can now be credited with the ability to destroy Wing Loong class UAVs.
    2. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 07: 46
      0
      Quote: shinobi
      The author thickened the paint a little. An experimental laser, even though a serial car does not yet have a prototype. I will say more, compact lasers up to 1 megawatt (the size of a home refrigerator) are far from news and are widely used in the aerospace industry for precise "cutting" of metal products. This is where, for whatever reason, plasma cutters cannot be used, not new in short. Here is the marker retention system, yes, it is of interest. And then, only in terms of technical solutions. Now the development of combat lasers is on the path of reducing the pumping time of short-pulse systems. The prospect is behind them. There the scheme is such that during the interval between pulses the system is re-aimed from one target to another. That is, one millisecond pulse should be enough to destroy the object. Ideally.


      Do not make up. 500 KW laser is made IPG on special order and it takes up enough places, especially with the cooling system - https://www.ipgphotonics.com/en/products/lasers/nepreryvnye-lazery-vysokoy-moshchnosti/1-mikron/yls-1120- kvt # [yls-do-500-kvt]

      But you can most likely cram into a truck, along with a generator.
      1. shinobi
        shinobi 7 August 2019 19: 28
        -1
        -I'm belittling you, Porthos! -
        Google "industrial lasers" and you will be happy.
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor 6 August 2019 06: 29
    +1
    The article is clearly biased, not covered by advertising of the Turkish military-industrial complex.
    With a downed drone in Libya, the story is generally muddy, everyone interprets it to the extent of their writing talent.
  6. Amateur
    Amateur 6 August 2019 06: 58
    +9

    I do not believe!
    K.S. Stanislavsky
    1. Glory1974
      Glory1974 6 August 2019 08: 49
      +3
      Judging by the diameter of the inlet, the beam gauge is 20-30 mm. It seems a bit thick for the laser.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 6 August 2019 10: 57
        +3
        10 mm is considered a very good laser spot. But to keep a constant 10 mm on a moving target is difficult. Therefore, 20-30 mm is an excellent result when burning.
        1. Victor Pryanichnikov
          Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 09
          0
          Such naive guys. Not 10 mm, but 100 mm, say, at 1 kilometer will receive - then it will be very good
      2. mmaxx
        mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 08
        -1
        Quote: glory1974
        Judging by the diameter of the inlet, the beam gauge is 20-30 mm. It seems a bit thick for the laser.

        This is the standard deviation of the quality of the spot holding system in one place.
    2. Sasha_rulevoy
      Sasha_rulevoy 6 August 2019 22: 25
      +1
      I don’t believe it either. At least a little, but the spot was supposed to tremble. So the paint around should have been sooty. On what the Americans showed, the paint was smoked much more, and the hole was thinner.
    3. Morris812
      Morris812 8 August 2019 05: 57
      +1

      And I do not believe that such a non-circular hole is from a bullet)
      And why is there a smoked surface around it - because from the bullet there will be only chipped paint and rust.
  7. Ros 56
    Ros 56 6 August 2019 07: 02
    +7
    I get the impression from the photo that this device was simply burned on the ground. If the debris burned in the air, it would scatter for several kilometers, and even when it hit the ground, the wings and fuselage would not lie exactly like that.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 6 August 2019 08: 27
      +2
      Quote: Ros 56
      The debris would fly in the air

      The hull is much less vulnerable to fire. than "tripe"
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 6 August 2019 16: 49
        0
        Which body is the tank? The melting point of aluminum is about 600 degrees, fiberglass would also burn. I saw that the Superjet was left just a few minutes from the plane.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 6 August 2019 18: 18
          +1
          Quote: Ros 56
          Which body is the tank?

          Aircraft body.
  8. Professor
    Professor 6 August 2019 07: 17
    +9
    The author pulled the laser and "combat interception.
    With what fright is this "burning"?
    1. Den717
      Den717 6 August 2019 10: 29
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      With what fright is this "burning"?

      Actually, burning looks something like this:
      1. Professor
        Professor 6 August 2019 11: 51
        0
        Quote: Den717
        Quote: Professor
        With what fright is this "burning"?

        Actually, burning looks something like this:

        Do you find many similarities?
        1. Den717
          Den717 6 August 2019 11: 53
          +1
          Quote: Professor
          Do you find many similarities?

          There would be similarities, I would point out. But no, it doesn’t look like ... There, in my opinion, there is some kind of hole with rusty edges, possibly cutting with an abrasive tool, a month ago. Too regular shape and even edges without bending of the metal, in the photo anyway.
          1. Oquzyurd
            Oquzyurd 6 August 2019 17: 01
            0
            "Too regular shape and smooth edges without metal bending," Enlarge the photo, look more carefully. There is no correct shape and there are no smooth edges. The similarities of your exhibited photo "Den717 (Den) Today, 10:29" are obvious.
            1. Den717
              Den717 6 August 2019 17: 03
              +1
              Quote: Oquzyurd
              The similarities of your exhibited photo "Den717 (Den) Today, 10:29" are obvious.

              Did you find any similarities? Perfectly. I'm not against...
          2. mmaxx
            mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 11
            +1
            First look at laser cutting samples without gas blowing, then talk. This is a burn. Turkish installation is not a technological laser. There, gas is not supplied to the cut zone under pressure. There is nothing to blow molten metal from.
            1. mmaxx
              mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 11
              0
              By the way, in the Turkish film this is well shown.
  9. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 6 August 2019 07: 47
    -9
    Well, in Russia, "combat lasers", UAVs, like VNEU for submarines, "railgun", microwave and many other "exotic" weapons from the very beginning were recognized as "dead-end paths" of development or "distant prospects", focusing on the "classics "are now reaping the benefits of such decisions. Most scientists (old and young), whose brains are in their heads, and not the "pioneer dawn" playing there, are dumped and dumped in countries where they are appreciated and well appreciated (in terms of salaries), so that Russia in this regard is "resting - nervously smokes on the sidelines. " They riveted, however, "Peresvet" is something monstrous, such as "weapons of NI" ("to frighten") with unclear what efficiency, now they will be dragged around exhibitions, proud ... smile
    1. Deathmaker
      Deathmaker 6 August 2019 08: 42
      +3
      and where can you see the successful implementation of the projects of those same blamed scientists in the form of weapons based on new physical principles?
      1. Monster_Fat
        Monster_Fat 6 August 2019 09: 19
        -7
        In Alaska. HAARP is called .....
        1. bars1
          bars1 6 August 2019 10: 09
          +7
          Look more at Military Secret on RenTV, there they will not tell about such a thing.
      2. Harry.km
        Harry.km 6 August 2019 20: 58
        0
        Quote: Deathmaker
        and where can you see the successful implementation of the projects of those same blamed scientists in the form of weapons based on new physical principles?

        Type in Google I.I. Sikorsky. Check out his designs.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 6 August 2019 21: 17
          0
          Quote: Monster_Fat
          ... in Russia... Most scientists ... who have brains in their heads, and not a "pioneer dawn" playing there, are dumped and dumped in countries where they are valued and well appreciated (in terms of salaries), so that Russia in this regard, "rests-nervously smokes on the sidelines"

          I will translate: our American "friend" refers to the modern Russian Federation as Russia. What can be understood from the context:

          Quote: Monster_Fat
          in Russia "combat lasers", UAVs, as well as VNEU for submarines, "railgun", microwave and many other "exotic" means of destruction from the very beginning were recognized as "dead-end ways" of development or "distant prospect", focusing on the "classics", now reaping the benefits of such decisions

          What side here

          Quote: Harry.km
          I.I. Sikorsky

          belay ?

          This is a question, buddy. wink
    2. The comment was deleted.
  10. guerrilla
    guerrilla 6 August 2019 08: 28
    0
    For once, the Turks did not plunge into history, but entered ... By the way, without sarcasm. One marker retention system is expensive.
  11. Deathmaker
    Deathmaker 6 August 2019 08: 41
    +1
    next to the circled hole, another one is visible, exactly the same. laser shot 2 times? 2 lasers fired? or maybe everything is simpler and it was not a laser, but, say, a large-caliber sniper gun?
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 14
      +1
      The laser cannot burn a moving object immediately. He hesitates. The energy of the beam is dissipated.
      Here the article is about the fact that the Turks solved the problem of keeping the spot in one place. This place still cannot be a point. This is a small area. Here the rotating projectile must be heated for a long time. It spins and the walls are thick.
      1. Victor Pryanichnikov
        Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 13
        +1
        The distance from which they shot down is not indicated. Without this, there is no point in discussing anything.
  12. Rus_Balt
    Rus_Balt 6 August 2019 09: 32
    -2
    Now I would like to hear how "Peresvet" burned the enemy AUG ... Well, or at least shot down a carrier pigeon delivering a report with targeting to the barmaley. Well, or at least something, for example - they rubbed the optics on this death star and aimed at a potential enemy.
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 07: 51
      +1
      1. There are great doubts about Peresvet. There is a suspicion that this is either a chemical or gas-dynamic laser, that there is an outdated technology that everyone has abandoned.
      2. Unless of course there is no secret breakthrough in this direction.

      In addition, there is no information about the combination of OLS / radar and Peresvet, which will allow him to work on air targets. Most likely its purpose is to create satellites moving along known trajectories.
      Again, provided that there is no breakthrough solution in it. Secrecy is possible for the first and second reason.
  13. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 6 August 2019 10: 03
    0
    Indeed, a "landmark event".
    The first combat use of the laser.
    Turks are well done.
    50 kW is enough to burn a thin metal body from 3-5 km
    1. Victor Pryanichnikov
      Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 14
      +1
      Have you tried? At least 1 km?
  14. K-50
    K-50 6 August 2019 10: 15
    0
    They will begin to make military UAV hulls from refractory materials, and even with an ablative coating or with a highly reflective surface (maybe specialists will come up with something else), under the protection of sensors about laser irradiation, so that the UAV can automatically "shed" from the area where it was exposed and all. In 90% of cases, it will not be possible to destroy it with a low-power laser. He will either begin to maneuver, knocking down the aiming point and constantly substituting unheated areas in automatic mode, and the operators will learn to hide behind tall trees, buildings, and other tall structures, making it difficult to accompany the sighting complex. In general, there will still be that hemorrhoid until the "arena" of the battlefield will not come out really powerful laser installations capable of "one pulse" to burn the plane.
    But "shooting" at the infantry, I remember, is prohibited by the Convention on Permitted Used Weapons.
    In general, there is an international agreement prohibiting laser irradiation of personnel.
    1. KPblC
      KPblC 6 August 2019 20: 31
      0
      And they will start to cost like a cast-iron bridge
    2. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 07: 54
      -2
      Quote: K-50
      They will begin to make military UAV hulls from refractory materials, and even with an ablative coating or with a highly reflective surface (maybe specialists will come up with something else), under the protection of sensors about laser irradiation, so that the UAV can automatically "shed" from the area where it was exposed and all. In 90% of cases, it will not be possible to destroy it with a low-power laser. He will either begin to maneuver, knocking down the aiming point and constantly substituting unheated areas in automatic mode, and the operators will learn to hide behind tall trees, buildings, and other tall structures, making it difficult to accompany the sighting complex. In general, there will still be that hemorrhoid until the "arena" of the battlefield will not come out really powerful laser installations capable of "one pulse" to burn the plane.
      But "shooting" at the infantry, I remember, is prohibited by the Convention on Permitted Used Weapons.
      In general, there is an international agreement prohibiting laser irradiation of personnel.


      Lasers will change the course of the war. Humble yourself. And you can shoot at infantry, you can’t intentionally blind them on an ongoing basis, which the PRC, for example, will definitely put on.

      Any strengthening of the structure will greatly increase the cost, reduce range, maneuverability. This is the end of cheap drones, subcompact ammunition and similar weapons. Most likely to affect aviation.

      Laser weapons: prospects in the air force. Part of 2 - https://topwar.ru/155386-lazernoe-oruzhie-perspektivy-v-voenno-vozdushnyh-silah-chast-2.html
  15. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 6 August 2019 10: 16
    +8
    Three obvious BUTs:

    1. A system capable of burning a hole even from 500 meters should burn guidance systems from 10 kilometers. It is strange that blind drones have not yet been announced.

    2. The resistance of the body itself to the laser beam can be very easily increased a hundredfold. And they will do it as soon as the laser becomes at least some kind of threat.

    3. A laser of continuous action (not pulsed) is a dead end branch. That "burn" you can just something very small. Another thing is when a millisecond pulse carries energy like the same cannon shell, it only flies at the speed of light ..
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 17
      0
      All right.
      Only the pulse frequency is such that it really turns out much better. The same carbon dioxide laser does not take aluminum and copper alloys with constant radiation, and it is fine in the pulsed mode.
    2. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 07: 59
      -1
      Quote: Sancho_SP
      Three obvious BUTs:

      1. A system capable of burning a hole even from 500 meters should burn guidance systems from 10 kilometers. It is strange that blind drones have not yet been announced.


      Yes.

      Quote: Sancho_SP
      2. The resistance of the body itself to the laser beam can be very easily increased a hundredfold. And they will do it as soon as the laser becomes at least some kind of threat.


      No, it’s impossible, it’s not easy. Resist light: protection against laser weapons. Part 5 - https://topwar.ru/156366-protivostojat-svetu-zaschita-ot-lazernogo-oruzhija-chast-5.html

      Quote: Sancho_SP
      3. A laser of continuous action (not pulsed) is a dead end branch. That "burn" you can just something very small. Another thing is when a millisecond pulse carries energy like the same cannon shell, it only flies at the speed of light ..


      It's just the opposite. Such power in a pulse will not get 100 years, and a permanent laser just needs to hold 3-10 seconds, which has already been decided by many companies.

      Many here (not about you) initially have a distrust of lasers, but this will pass - anger, denial, acceptance ...

      There is already an example of a really hit target, but they will think that this is a fake, until such messages become widespread, videos from target tracking systems appear, then the main question will be: Where do we have this?

      By the way, I thought that the first combat experience will show Israel with German lasers Rheinmetall.
      Laser weapons: ground forces and air defense. Part of 3 - https://topwar.ru/155508-lazernoe-oruzhie-suhoputnye-vojska-i-pvo-chast-3.html
      1. Sancho_SP
        Sancho_SP 7 August 2019 10: 42
        0
        I read that article. The main mistake of the article is the substitution of concepts. They consider means of protection not from spot heating, but from extensive.

        Exposure to the laser creates a high concentration of energy at a small point. The power in the 100-1000 kW with high focusing will no longer “cut or burn”, but will cause an explosive expansion of the evaporated substance. One megajoule in 0,1 second per square centimeter of surface. To what temperature can this energy heat a dozen grams of aluminum for the sake of interest, but the orders are clear.
        1. Shopping Mall
          Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 11: 06
          -1
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          I read that article. The main mistake of the article is the substitution of concepts. They consider means of protection not from spot heating, but from extensive.

          Exposure to the laser creates a high concentration of energy at a small point. The power in the 100-1000 kW with high focusing will no longer “cut or burn”, but will cause an explosive expansion of the evaporated substance. One megajoule in 0,1 second per square centimeter of surface. To what temperature can this energy heat a dozen grams of aluminum for the sake of interest, but the orders are clear.


          It is possible that there are errors in the article, but we are not talking about aluminum at all. I’m just saying that protection will be difficult and expensive. And thick. And it’s possible that it’s heavy, so goodbye to dozens of relatively cheap small-sized ammunition on the external sling. And this will affect the strike power of aviation very strongly, especially on Stealth aircraft with their small compartments.

          The spot heating with a constant laser still needs to be kept there, in any case there will be a precession, and objections to the article were just talking about maneuvering and rotating targets.

          Watts are J / s. Those. a pulsed laser with a pulse duration of 1 second, equivalent in the transmitted energy to the 100 kW laser in 10 seconds, should produce pulse energy 1 MJ, 300 kW - 3 MJ, 1 MW - 10 MJ.

          The second question is at what depth the blasting process can extend, perhaps this will only worsen the damaging properties, since by analogy with ablation protection, the destruction of the material will take energy, and as a result, the target with a small hole will calmly continue flying. In the case of constant exposure for 5010 seconds, the thermal energy of heating the body is transferred inside and acts on the sub-shell elements - electronics, fuel lines, etc.

          In general, now all military honorable type lasers are not being developed. According to all forecasts, even promising lasers up to 1 MW should be with a constant mode of operation.
    3. Victor Pryanichnikov
      Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 18
      +1
      1. A system capable of burning a hole even from 500 meters should burn guidance systems from 10 kilometers. It is strange that blind drones have not yet been announced.
      - hard to get, that's all. Well, power drops about quadratically
  16. Zoer
    Zoer 6 August 2019 10: 25
    0
    Quote: shinobi
    I will say more, compact lasers up to 1 megawatt (the size of a home refrigerator) are far from news and are widely used in the aerospace industry for precise "cutting" of metal products. This is where, for whatever reason, plasma cutters cannot be used, no new shorter.

    If you are not in the subject, then you should not fantasize. Industrial laser cutters are no longer a novelty - yes! And they cut steel up to 20 mm thick. The laser cuts much more accurately than plasma, and the seam is almost flat. Plasma is cut only in construction and shipbuilding. But the bottom line is that the DISTANCE between the laser source and the cut surface, in laser cutters, is millimeters! The trouble with laser weapons is that the atmosphere strongly absorbs radiation, especially wet and dusty. And so the Turks shot down in clear, dry weather a light UAV, not protected at all, and not at all ready for such an impact. Tape this UAV with a mirror film, launch it in rainy weather, and there will be no sense from that laser, from the word at all.
    1. mmaxx
      mmaxx 6 August 2019 18: 20
      0
      Given the placement on a regular car, a good addition to traditional means is obtained. Drones are now a problem. Kinetic weapons are hard to hit. And the laser has a crazy reaction speed. UAV and weather may not help. In order to see something from him, one must fly closer to the ground.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 6 August 2019 22: 45
        0
        Against drones, a laser is the cheapest and most effective weapon.
        1. yehat
          yehat 7 August 2019 12: 18
          0
          I think it’s more effective against electronic warfare drones.
          against the devices that the Turks used, it is very easy to defend themselves.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 7 August 2019 13: 01
            0
            If the drone is in satellite communications, then electronic warfare will help little. And if the drone is on a standalone program (for example, a camcorder with a reference to a location map), then electronic warfare will not help at all.
            Enemy drones must be destroyed, and quickly - they can be shock, or even a "kamikaze" type.
            1. yehat
              yehat 7 August 2019 13: 02
              -1
              I think it’s more efficient not to burn, but just to heat the device
              in this vein, it will be much more difficult to defend against lasers.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 7 August 2019 13: 06
                -1
                In short, it is necessary that he caught fire and fell.
                And to burn through, to set fire to a wing or a navigation block - this is the second thing. Depends on the guidance means (do they see such details?), Distances, etc.
    2. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 00
      0
      Quote: Zoer
      Quote: shinobi
      I will say more, compact lasers up to 1 megawatt (the size of a home refrigerator) are far from news and are widely used in the aerospace industry for precise "cutting" of metal products. This is where, for whatever reason, plasma cutters cannot be used, no new shorter.

      If you are not in the subject, then you should not fantasize. Industrial laser cutters are no longer a novelty - yes! And they cut steel up to 20 mm thick. The laser cuts much more accurately than plasma, and the seam is almost flat. Plasma is cut only in construction and shipbuilding. But the bottom line is that the DISTANCE between the laser source and the cut surface, in laser cutters, is millimeters! The trouble with laser weapons is that the atmosphere strongly absorbs radiation, especially wet and dusty. And so the Turks shot down in clear, dry weather a light UAV, not protected at all, and not at all ready for such an impact. Tape this UAV with a mirror film, launch it in rainy weather, and there will be no sense from that laser, from the word at all.


      You speak completely without understanding the subject - the words are strong, a mirror, rain. There is research on all this, and all this does not work to protect against LI.
  17. Zoer
    Zoer 6 August 2019 10: 28
    -1
    Quote: K-50
    They will begin to make military UAV hulls from refractory materials, and even with an ablative coating or with a highly reflective surface (maybe experts will come up with something else), under the protection of sensors about laser irradiation, so that the UAV can automatically "shed" from the area where it was exposed and all. He will either begin to maneuver, knocking down the aiming point and constantly substituting unheated areas in automatic mode, and the operators will learn to hide behind tall trees, buildings, and other tall structures, making it difficult to accompany the sighting complex.

    It’s just that it will launch a rocket at the source of LI and fly on to carry out the task))))
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 02
      0
      Quote: Zoer
      Quote: K-50
      They will begin to make military UAV hulls from refractory materials, and even with an ablative coating or with a highly reflective surface (maybe experts will come up with something else), under the protection of sensors about laser irradiation, so that the UAV can automatically "shed" from the area where it was exposed and all. He will either begin to maneuver, knocking down the aiming point and constantly substituting unheated areas in automatic mode, and the operators will learn to hide behind tall trees, buildings, and other tall structures, making it difficult to accompany the sighting complex.

      It’s just that it will launch a rocket at the source of LI and fly on to carry out the task))))


      There are none and it’s not easy - to make the seeker pointing at a narrow powerful beam. Even if they make a rocket hovering like some kind of secondary artifacts of the beam, then the slightest oscillation of the guidance system (second re-targeting of this rocket) will immediately burn it to the GOS.
  18. Rus_Balt
    Rus_Balt 6 August 2019 10: 32
    -3
    And here is a video on testing and using the domestic laser weapon "Peresvet":



    PS Why did Turkey buy Russian C-400? And immediately tested the lasers ... Another scimitar in the back to prepare? Here, not only tomatoes can suffer)))
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 03
      -1
      Quote: Rus_Balt
      PS Why did Turkey buy Russian C-400? And immediately tested the lasers ... Another scimitar in the back to prepare? Here, not only tomatoes can suffer)))


      Separated air defense.
  19. Shuttle
    Shuttle 6 August 2019 12: 33
    +2
    Nevertheless, the topic of how they manage to accurately focus radiation on a target long enough for a destructive effect is not completely disclosed. In my opinion this is the most interesting and important detail in this case.
    1. Oquzyurd
      Oquzyurd 6 August 2019 17: 23
      +1
      In this video, there is a test version of this weapon. It can be seen how they accompany the drone and how many seconds they make holes in the hull from a distance of 500 and 1000 m. Among other things, the laser is equipped with an additional system to counter the flock of drones, disrupting their interaction and communication with the operator. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWS6RFgx6UY This is a test version. The Turks developed this system and made it more compact. They are launched as a series, it is mainly intended to protect important objects from drone attacks.
    2. nesmeshimenya
      nesmeshimenya 6 August 2019 22: 01
      -1
      Quote: Shuttle
      Nevertheless, the topic of how they manage to accurately focus radiation on a target long enough for a destructive effect is not completely disclosed.
      - This is precisely their company secret, for that matter (if they really shot down with a laser). Who is telling this.
  20. kosovvskiy
    kosovvskiy 6 August 2019 13: 13
    0
    Quote: K-50

    But "shooting" at the infantry, I remember, is prohibited by the Convention on Permitted Used Weapons.
    In general, there is an international agreement prohibiting laser irradiation of personnel.


    Not prohibited.
    Even more specifically, it’s very possible to burn an eye that looks into some kind of optical device:

    "It is forbidden to use laser weapons specially designed for use in hostilities, solely or inter alia in order to cause permanent blindness to the organs of vision of a person who does not use optical devices, i.e. unprotected organs of vision or organs of vision that have devices for correcting vision. The High Contracting Parties shall not transfer such weapons to any state or any non-state entity. "

    Additional Protocol to the 1995 Convention on the Prohibition and Restriction of Certain Conventional Arms
  21. yehat
    yehat 6 August 2019 13: 17
    -2
    Quote: Operator
    the problem is in another - matrix cooling system

    more precisely in the heat removal system
    but on the other hand, the problem is not even in the novelty of the design, but in time for the selection of convenient solutions.
  22. yehat
    yehat 6 August 2019 13: 19
    -1
    Quote: Sancho_SP
    1. A system capable of burning a hole even from 500 meters should burn guidance systems from 10 kilometers. It is strange that blind drones have not yet been announced.

    the Chinese put such a system on production tanks
  23. yehat
    yehat 6 August 2019 13: 24
    -1
    Quote: Monster_Fat
    Well, in Russia, "combat lasers", UAVs, like VNEU for submarines, "railgun", microwave and many other "exotic" weapons from the very beginning were recognized as "dead-end paths" of development or "distant prospects", focusing on the "classics "

    self-propelled laser complex 1K11 "Stilet" / 1K17 "Compression"
    VNEU - new boat
    https://topwar.ru/156779-rossija-postroit-anajerobnuju-podvodnuju-lodku-za-schet-indii.html
    UAVs are also there, and they started back in the 60s in the USSR.
    in the modern Russian Federation, capital underestimates the importance of promising developments, but not a few remain in the history of the USSR and its heritage.
  24. Alex_59
    Alex_59 6 August 2019 14: 32
    +1
    Spoil the author’s delight (a little).
    On 7 on July 2018, the company issued a press release stating that it had successfully tested a combat laser capable of hitting small UAVs from 500 meters
    If such performance characteristics are considered true, then it turns out that the downed UAV simply passed the moment when it was in the radius of damage by the laser. Although, in theory, he should have discovered a combat vehicle in advance, from a couple of kilometers - for sure. Well, let's say, perhaps there was no task to destroy the detected equipment immediately. In any case, the UAV flew up to the laser at an unacceptably close distance from which it could even be removed by the DShK. But now, when everyone knows that it is possible to use lasers for UAVs, nothing prevents us from adopting the appropriate tactics. Fly a little higher, destroy detected targets from a greater distance. 500 meters is a ridiculous distance by aviation standards. That's when the lasers learn to intercept targets in the range of altitudes and ranges of MANPADS - then it will make sense. But I believe that as soon as we want to guaranteed to shoot down the plane at a distance of 6-8 km, it will immediately turn into ... "Peresvet" or its dimensional analogue. And with the existing technology, it will no longer be a question of placing it in the dimensions of a "jihad mobile". Here we smoothly come to understand the question of why the Turks
    in the laser topic they occupy that niche in which the “grandees” of laser business, such as Russia and the USA, do not even think to climb.
    Simply because it is certainly possible to put a laser on a "shishiga", but the survival rate of such a laser with an effective firing range of 500 meters on the battlefield of a more or less serious war will be zero.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 6 August 2019 22: 48
      +1
      With a range of 5-7 km 35-50 kW lasers cope. Drones will have a hard time
      when such tactical lasers enter the composition of the military air defense.
      1. Shopping Mall
        Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 32
        +1
        Quote: voyaka uh
        With a range of 5-7 km 35-50 kW lasers cope. Drones will have a hard time
        when such tactical lasers enter the composition of the military air defense.


        Not only drones, all small-sized ammunition, where protection can not be put, and all ammunition with an optical seeker.
    2. Sasha_rulevoy
      Sasha_rulevoy 7 August 2019 19: 14
      +1
      Quote: Alex_59
      with which it could even be removed DShK


      It may well be exactly what happened. A strip of smoked paint is visible next to the hole, which has been called the burn hole. This strip is just very similar to the result of exposure to a laser beam. Perhaps it was like this: the UAV was flying 500 meters away. They aimed at him with a laser, fired at him. He flies further, already 400 meters before him. We took aim a second time, fired. And he flies, now a hundred meters away. Here one Libyan in his hearts says: "Vasil Ivanovich, cut him down with a sword." Hit a couple of times from an anti-aircraft machine gun. The drone flew over the dune and sat down. The report said: "The enemy's UAV made an emergency landing after being fired by a laser installation and a machine gun." Well, the news went to the press, adjusted for sensationalism.
    3. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 22: 43
      -1
      Quote: Alex_59
      Spoil the author’s delight (a little).
      On 7 on July 2018, the company issued a press release stating that it had successfully tested a combat laser capable of hitting small UAVs from 500 meters
      If such performance characteristics are considered true, then it turns out that the downed UAV simply passed the moment when it was in the radius of damage by the laser. Although, in theory, he should have discovered a combat vehicle in advance, from a couple of kilometers - for sure. Well, let's say, perhaps there was no task to destroy the detected equipment immediately. In any case, the UAV flew up to the laser at an unacceptably close distance from which it could even be removed by the DShK. But now, when everyone knows that it is possible to use lasers for UAVs, nothing prevents us from adopting the appropriate tactics. Fly a little higher, destroy detected targets from a greater distance. 500 meters is a ridiculous distance by aviation standards. That's when the lasers learn to intercept targets in the range of altitudes and ranges of MANPADS - then it will make sense. But I believe that as soon as we want to guaranteed to shoot down the plane at a distance of 6-8 km, it will immediately turn into ... "Peresvet" or its dimensional analogue. And with the existing technology, it will no longer be a question of placing it in the dimensions of a "jihad mobile". Here we smoothly come to understand the question of why the Turks
      in the laser topic they occupy that niche in which the “grandees” of laser business, such as Russia and the USA, do not even think to climb.
      Simply because it is certainly possible to put a laser on a "shishiga", but the survival rate of such a laser with an effective firing range of 500 meters on the battlefield of a more or less serious war will be zero.



      Lasers already allow this, but most likely not Turkish. But German - Rheinmetall, or the latest American models, with a capacity of about 100 kW.
  25. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 6 August 2019 14: 37
    -1
    It is not long until the moment when "combat" lasers will "baptize" the battlefield, leaving the blind on it en masse. An enemy soldier with scorched eyes. And when this happens, they will stop taking prisoners in such a war. I am afraid that including the peaceful. And then the military of all countries, in whom there is still a drop of reason, will do absolutely everything to destroy the country that used such weapons. Hitler did not use combat chemistry, although it would seem that he had absolutely nothing to lose.
    Well...
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 31
      0
      Quote: Mikhail3
      It is not long until the moment when "combat" lasers will "baptize" the battlefield, leaving the blind on it en masse. An enemy soldier with scorched eyes. And when this happens, they will stop taking prisoners in such a war. I am afraid that including the peaceful. And then the military of all countries, in whom there is still a drop of reason, will do absolutely everything to destroy the country that used such weapons. Hitler did not use combat chemistry, although it would seem that he had absolutely nothing to lose.
      Well...


      With the power that you plan to bring to the battlefield, you won’t get blind there - there will be a hole to the back of the head, brains will boil like in a pressure cooker.

      Soldiers will need to make suits with protection against accidental defeat with optical isolation such as camera displays.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 7 August 2019 09: 06
        0
        There will be no hole. Under the beam that burns the brick, people poked their hands, and nothing. Well, that is, there’s absolutely nothing, but you should not expect laser guns from Star Wars.
        1. Shopping Mall
          Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 09: 09
          -1
          Quote: Mikhail3
          There will be no hole. Under the beam that burns the brick, people poked their hands, and nothing. Well, that is, there’s absolutely nothing, but you should not expect laser guns from Star Wars.


          How is it? I have a 2-watt laser pointer, it burns matches from two meters, cuts bags, heats the onion a lot. When the beam is directed "stop" pain as from a prick with a needle or awl.

          Pistols are definitely not worth the wait, but as an auxiliary under-barrel rifle unit to disable optics completely.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 7 August 2019 09: 13
            +1
            Quote: AVM
            Pistols are definitely not worth the wait, but as an auxiliary under-barrel rifle unit for optics failure

            I don't understand, but is it considered non-kosher with a bullet to "disable the optics"?

            Hang a pound of weight + obviously capricious + power-demanding device on the "rifle" - Oh, YES !! laughing
            1. Shopping Mall
              Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 09: 17
              0
              Quote: Cat Man Null
              Quote: AVM
              Pistols are definitely not worth the wait, but as an auxiliary under-barrel rifle unit for optics failure

              I don't understand, but is it considered non-kosher with a bullet to "disable the optics"?

              Hang a pound of weight + obviously capricious + power-demanding device on the "rifle" - Oh, YES !! laughing


              Pool, try to get into the optics for 2-3 km sniper or ATGM calculation. Modern diode and solid-state lasers are compact and inconsequential.
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 7 August 2019 09: 57
                0
                Quote: AVM
                ... to get into optics beyond 2-3 km ...

                What is this task? And who should do it? What do we "get" into? And how to see those optics "for 2-3 km"? Eyes? It is unlikely...

                Nobody shoots from a "rifle" for 2-3 kilometers, that is, "for each rifle" such a laser is obviously not needed. And in general - on the "rifle" he is superfluous, IMHO.

                And the tank, for example, already has a laser rangefinder. It is quite a working device, the crows (on which I once "tested" it), will confirm laughing
                1. Shopping Mall
                  Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 12: 49
                  -1
                  Quote: Cat Man Null
                  Quote: AVM
                  ... to get into optics beyond 2-3 km ...

                  What is this task? And who should do it? What do we "get" into? And how to see those optics "for 2-3 km"? Eyes? It is unlikely...

                  Nobody shoots from a "rifle" for 2-3 kilometers, that is, "for each rifle" such a laser is obviously not needed. And in general - on the "rifle" he is superfluous, IMHO.

                  And the tank, for example, already has a laser rangefinder. It is quite a working device, the crows (on which I once "tested" it), will confirm laughing


                  They do not shoot from a rifle (not a sniper one), but from an ATGM easily. For example, when reconnaissance, when detecting the calculation of ATGMs with binoculars or a thermal imager, it is quite possible to spoil their optics.

                  The tank has no auto guidance on enemy optics. But in general, the appearance on the tank of laser defensive weapons is a matter of time.
          2. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 7 August 2019 09: 14
            +2
            It hurts because you hold your hand for a long time under the beam. Pass your hand through the beam at some speed - how are you feeling? What is this idea - about the failure of optics? Where did you get all this ?! Well, yes, Compression had just such a code, but this is a Russian military development, they never wrote the full truth!
            You from a grenade launcher will not just fall into a sniper, you will stick a beam into his sight ?! Sorry, why do you need lasers, machine guns, machine guns and guns? You will lie down behind the parapet of the trench, and kill a couple of enemy platoons, if the level of total losses in 17% is exceeded, he will scatter himself, at least this is the NATO standard.
            With such inhuman accuracy, no frills are needed ...
            1. Shopping Mall
              Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 09: 19
              0
              Quote: Mikhail3
              It hurts because you hold your hand for a long time under the beam. Pass your hand through the beam at some speed - how are you feeling? What is this idea - about the failure of optics? Where did you get all this ?! Well, yes, Compression had just such a code, but this is a Russian military development, they never wrote the full truth!
              You from a grenade launcher will not just fall into a sniper, you will stick a beam into his sight ?! Sorry, why do you need lasers, machine guns, machine guns and guns? You will lie down behind the parapet of the trench, and kill a couple of enemy platoons, if the level of total losses in 17% is exceeded, he will scatter himself, at least this is the NATO standard.
              With such inhuman accuracy, no frills are needed ...


              No, it hurts instantly, and it hurts a lot, there’s a small burn on my arm right away.

              The idea of ​​putting optics out of action is not mine, the PRC is already launching such a weapon in the form of a rifle.

              I don’t know what to write about the rest, the meaning is incomprehensible.
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 7 August 2019 09: 27
                +3
                Yes, a tree-stick, many produce such "rifles", blessing the mind for this is not necessary. But none of those who have a brain in their head thinks that a soldier will fall into the enemy's scope! Such a trick was very difficult for Zaitsev, and the hit was accidental. Of course, all this has only one way of using it - to search the enemy's positions with a beam, looking for observers who will instantly burn out their eyes. And in the attack - to drive along the attacking line, burning out everyone's eyes.
                Another question is who decides to apply it. When someone leaves a crowd of helpless blind people on the battlefield, the soldiers of the other side will become ... In general, the one who does this will be extremely powerful. Deadly rake.
                The eyes are a vulnerable optical device, much more vulnerable than a sight. Slightly smeared a beam over them, and burned out the fundus. And on the optics of the sight, you will have to hold the beam for several seconds, a fleeting touch will not destroy anything, it will only turn into a blind sniper.
                Regarding the human body ... have tried, believe me. There is complicated physics and chemistry, I have no time to set forth. A living body is much more resistant than dead materials to laser radiation. Only the eyes are very vulnerable.
                1. Shopping Mall
                  Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 09: 39
                  -1
                  Quote: Mikhail3
                  Yes, a tree-stick, many produce such "rifles", blessing the mind for this is not necessary. But none of those who have a brain in their head thinks that a soldier will fall into the enemy's scope! Such a trick was very difficult for Zaitsev, and the hit was accidental. Of course, all this has only one way of using it - to search the enemy's positions with a beam, looking for observers who will instantly burn out their eyes. And in the attack - to drive along the attacking line, burning out everyone's eyes.
                  Another question is who decides to apply it. When someone leaves a crowd of helpless blind people on the battlefield, the soldiers of the other side will become ... In general, the one who does this will be extremely powerful. Deadly rake.
                  The eyes are a vulnerable optical device, much more vulnerable than a sight. Slightly smeared a beam over them, and burned out the fundus. And on the optics of the sight, you will have to hold the beam for several seconds, a fleeting touch will not destroy anything, it will only turn into a blind sniper.
                  Regarding the human body ... have tried, believe me. There is complicated physics and chemistry, I have no time to set forth. A living body is much more resistant than dead materials to laser radiation. Only the eyes are very vulnerable.


                  If I understand correctly, then in the technique, optics is first detected by reflecting the scanning defocused laser radiation, then a means of destruction is directed at the delicate night vision devices, thermal imagers, camera arrays.

                  Perhaps in hand weapons they realize something similar.
                  1. Mikhail3
                    Mikhail3 7 August 2019 09: 45
                    +3
                    Ep ... Do you even understand what you are writing? Oh, it came. Probably never worked with your hands in your life? At least go to the shooting gallery somehow. Try to hit something from at least 15 meters. To "realize this in hand-held weapons" not once by accident, but on a permanent basis, you need a drive weighing half a ton, which will aim. Only such a thing is capable of aiming from time to time with due accuracy on a sight with an optics size of five centimeters.
                    A young man, if you do not master some skill that will help your hands increase accuracy and flexibility, your thinking will always be inferior. It was precisely the difficult and precise work with your hands that started thinking, and not vice versa.
                    1. Shopping Mall
                      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 10: 54
                      -2
                      Quote: Mikhail3
                      Ep ... Do you even understand what you are writing? Oh, it came. Probably never worked with your hands in your life? At least go to the shooting gallery somehow. Try to hit something from at least 15 meters. To "realize this in hand-held weapons" not once by accident, but on a permanent basis, you need a drive weighing half a ton, which will aim. Only such a thing is capable of aiming from time to time with due accuracy on a sight with an optics size of five centimeters.
                      A young man, if you do not master some skill that will help your hands increase accuracy and flexibility, your thinking will always be inferior. It was precisely the difficult and precise work with your hands that started thinking, and not vice versa.


                      I understand, and I can shoot, and with my hands everything is in order. And how do you think a sniper on 2,5 km works? And with the laser there is no wind drift, no ballistic trajectory, no recoil, nor many other negative factors. Moreover, it is quite possible to compensate even when shooting with hand-held trembling stabilized prism, as in the lenses of smartphones.
                      1. Mikhail3
                        Mikhail3 7 August 2019 16: 33
                        +2
                        I like talking to a bot ...
                      2. Shopping Mall
                        Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 22: 40
                        -2
                        Quote: Mikhail3
                        I like talking to a bot ...


                        Talk to the mirror, maybe let it go.
  26. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    0
    "Well, here, you know, you have to run as fast just to stay in the same place, and to get to another place, you need to run twice as fast." L. Carroll.
  27. Lieutenant Colonel of the USSR Air Force in stock
    0
    [quote = Flamberg] That's the question ....
    Here I also have a question like yours:

    how much the battery weighs and how much the laser itself ....
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 29
      0
      [quote = Lieutenant Colonel of the Air Force of the USSRF in reserve] [quote = Flamberg] That's the question ....
      Here I also have a question like yours:

      how much the battery weighs and how much the laser itself .... [/ quote]

      There or a nuclear power plant, if ours made a breakthrough in lasers (in extreme cases, a powerful generator) or a stock of chemical components, if there is junk inside.
  28. Prisoner
    Prisoner 6 August 2019 15: 02
    0
    The future lies in cryogenic technologies and high-temperature mirrors. laughing laughing laughing
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 28
      0
      Quote: Captive
      The future lies in cryogenic technologies and high-temperature mirrors. laughing laughing laughing


      Forget about mirrors. Or ablation protection, or a combination of a refractory outer casing and an internal heat-insulating material.

      But immediately the question arises, how to close the GOS. If radiolucent materials can still be developed, then the optical seeker seems to be coming to an end.
  29. Nick
    Nick 6 August 2019 17: 40
    -1
    The world's first use of a laser on a combat vehicle was made in the USSR in 1984. Then our military gave a laser pulse from the Terra-3 installation to the US Challenger spacecraft, in retaliation for their imitation of a nuclear attack on Moscow from space. The impulse was relatively weak, it only disabled part of the spacecraft's onboard equipment, and the astronauts felt temporary discomfort.
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 22: 39
      -1
      Quote: Nick
      The world's first use of a laser on a combat vehicle was made in the USSR in 1984. Then our military gave a laser pulse from the Terra-3 installation to the US Challenger spacecraft, in retaliation for their imitation of a nuclear attack on Moscow from space. The impulse was relatively weak, it only disabled part of the spacecraft's onboard equipment, and the astronauts felt temporary discomfort.


      A beautiful fairy tale ... Go and see if it was or not. The most interesting thing is that many people believe in damage to a spacecraft in orbit by a laser with a power of the order of 1 MW, but they do not believe that a five-kilometer missile can be shot down with a 100 MW laser.
  30. Siberian54
    Siberian54 6 August 2019 18: 03
    +2
    nice comments! But someone got up from the couch and checked: And how many cloudless hours per year over our homeland, what is the% of cloudy hours .. Maybe then it will become clear why military customers are dumb?
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 09
      -1
      Quote: Siberian54
      nice comments! But someone got up from the couch and checked: And how many cloudless hours per year over our homeland, what is the% of cloudy hours .. Maybe then it will become clear why military customers are dumb?


      Yes, you forget about the clouds, as you can already say that this is not tank armor. Perfectly it passes with a laser, albeit with a partial loss of power.
      1. Victor Pryanichnikov
        Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 39
        +1
        Not at all. More precisely, not at all. It depends on how much power
  31. Operator
    Operator 6 August 2019 18: 24
    -3
    Quote: Alexey RA
    It is best to cut the budget just on "cheap homing grenades"

    It is about something like OG-7В or RPG-18.
  32. Chaldon48
    Chaldon48 6 August 2019 21: 02
    -2
    The Turks were ahead because no one takes them seriously.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 6 August 2019 22: 51
      +2
      Turks are a warring army. They are fighting in Syria, Iraq, Libya.
      All the news of their military industry are immediately sent to test in battle. Correctly.
      1. Chaldon48
        Chaldon48 7 August 2019 02: 46
        0
        Russia, too, has tested a lot of its arsenal, both old and new, and the commanding staff has gained combat experience, unfortunately, military experience, apparently, is impossible to gain without loss.
  33. Newone
    Newone 6 August 2019 22: 46
    -2
    The Turks were ahead because the rest of the participants in the race considered the range of defeat in 500m, apparently not enough to fool. And for a given range and target characteristics, it turned out "Peresvet"
    1. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 08: 06
      0
      Quote: Newone
      The Turks were ahead because the rest of the participants in the race considered the range of defeat in 500m, apparently not enough to fool. And for a given range and target characteristics, it turned out "Peresvet"


      Most likely, Rheinmetall is ahead of all, just Germany is not fighting ...
  34. Mister who
    Mister who 7 August 2019 09: 52
    -1
    Here the poison will be needed for the laser, the gross domestic product has GDP))) The Turks will not be able to do their job - a fantasy, unless someone throws it to them.
  35. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 7 August 2019 11: 01
    0
    I still did not understand at what distance this laser hit the drone. At 500 meters, the drone can be shot down with a rifle or light machine gun, 1500 meters from a 14,5 mm anti-aircraft machine gun. In addition, Libya does not often rain and fog. Finally, from what distance can the drone itself attack a car with a laser?
  36. yehat
    yehat 7 August 2019 12: 38
    0
    Quote: mmaxx
    How to create a compact and powerful generator

    such a generator has long been created in the USSR - the mHD generator is called, it can give out tremendous power.
    This invention has gone to the USA, as well as the technology of using powerful lasers
    and now flies on a Boeing YAL-1
  37. yehat
    yehat 7 August 2019 13: 07
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    it is necessary that he caught fire and fell.

    better to come back and fall there)))
  38. Demagogue
    Demagogue 7 August 2019 16: 37
    -3
    The Americans are already testing laser systems on fighter jets that shoot down (namely, shoot down, and do not interfere with visiting) rockets of the centuries. Moreover, the pilot does not need to do anything - the system itself operates autonomously. It’s a matter of time before fighters can shoot down. And then they argue that it will hit you, it will not hit you. The future is with lasers. Unlimited Bq, the ability to instantly hit the target after detection. Missiles will be slowly replaced by lasers.
    1. Newone
      Newone 7 August 2019 19: 07
      0
      Don’t give a reference? I read about testing a laser on a Boing 737, I read about intentions to install lasers on fighter jets, I didn’t see any materials about testing on fighters.
    2. Shopping Mall
      Shopping Mall 7 August 2019 22: 34
      -2
      Quote: Demagogue
      The Americans are already testing laser systems on fighter jets that shoot down (namely, shoot down, and do not interfere with visiting) rockets of the centuries. Moreover, the pilot does not need to do anything - the system itself operates autonomously. It’s a matter of time before fighters can shoot down. And then they argue that it will hit you, it will not hit you. The future is with lasers. Unlimited Bq, the ability to instantly hit the target after detection. Missiles will be slowly replaced by lasers.


      It's useless. Some are fundamentally incapable of perceiving something new. They will notice changes only when the world changes so irreversibly that it will be impossible to miss this.
  39. grumbler
    grumbler 7 August 2019 18: 04
    +2
    Turks are great. In general, it is interesting to observe how new "players" appear. Israel has risen, China, India, Iran.
    But powerful lasers have many problems:
    - Yes, mobile compact power supplies and a pump system.
    No one needs a "miracle weapon" capable of firing at a rate of every few tens of seconds.
    - high power optics. Upon reaching certain energy densities of glass, reflective and antireflection coatings begin to scatter and absorb light very significantly - up to self-destruction. To overcome these effects in ultrahigh-power scientific equipment (pico and femtosecond lasers), it is necessary to use pulse smearing-compression schemes,
    using optical nonlinear media (plasma, etc.). But such installations are still bulky and fragile.

    Great success in creating powerful technological lasers has been achieved in the international company "IPG Photonics", created by our compatriot laser physicist VP Gapontsev. They make fiber lasers pumped by laser diodes. All this in a modular design, like server racks. It is a flexible, industrially tested solution in the field of laser cutting, welding, surface heat treatment of materials. At one of the previous Naval Shows in St. Petersburg, such a stand was presented. Fiber lasers are very rugged and compact unlike other types of lasers. In fact - a coil of cable, laser diodes and "some good physics". It is very possible that the future of military lasers lies with them.

    Although, the microwave range (microwave) seems more interesting to me. As you know, the damaging effect of microwaves is wider - this is not only thermal burning, but also the electrodynamic effect on electronics. They penetrate much better through aerosols (smoke, fog), through the slots of screens, ventilation.
    Modern microwave sources are quite compact. Microwave can be obtained both by traditional sources ("radio tubes"), and by plasma oscillations, generation by laser pulses.
    In combination with phased array antennas, beam control has become much simpler and more compact than before.
    The fact that little is said about them in comparison with optical lasers may be a sign that "serious guys" like Russia and the United States are already working closely with this (as in their time, articles on atomic energy suddenly disappeared, or on radio when it became a military development).

    And the laser, imho, will be useful precisely as a means of "blinding" and "disorienting" cameras, sensors (you can create such a modulation of illumination to make the target "dizzy").
  40. Demagogue
    Demagogue 7 August 2019 19: 12
    0
    Quote: Newone
    Don’t give a reference? I read about testing a laser on a Boing 737, I read about intentions to install lasers on fighter jets, I didn’t see any materials about testing on fighters.


    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a27376996/fighter-jet-laser/
    1. Newone
      Newone 9 August 2019 18: 53
      0
      "On April 23, according to Air Force Magazine, ground version of a laser that could someday protect military aircraft was tested at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. "
      Ground version. About fighter tests not a word.
  41. sergeant
    sergeant 8 August 2019 01: 37
    +1
    The entire article "branchy cranberry" from start to finish ... with all the pictures and videos!
    1. Penetration into an UAV is clearly not a sign of laser burning.
    2. To really burn metal with a laser, you need to focus the beam on an area of ​​square millimeters (if anyone saw the laser cutting machine) and no hole the size of a fist will work out there ...
    3. It is impossible to keep the beam on a moving and maneuvering target for a long time! The beam is deflected by an optical-mechanical system, which even with the most accurate execution and quick reaction will not allow it ...
    ... well, and a bunch of other inconsistencies ...
    1. Victor Pryanichnikov
      Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 46
      +1
      Finally, at least someone mentioned holding, with an accuracy of fractions of angular sec., On an arbitrarily moving target, at kilometer distances, for several seconds, kilowatt power. Everyone thinks that this is not a problem at all. I would like to quote Lavrov
  42. Demagogue
    Demagogue 8 August 2019 12: 26
    -2
    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Demagogue
    The Americans are already testing laser systems on fighter jets that shoot down (namely, shoot down, and do not interfere with visiting) rockets of the centuries. Moreover, the pilot does not need to do anything - the system itself operates autonomously. It’s a matter of time before fighters can shoot down. And then they argue that it will hit you, it will not hit you. The future is with lasers. Unlimited Bq, the ability to instantly hit the target after detection. Missiles will be slowly replaced by lasers.


    It's useless. Some are fundamentally incapable of perceiving something new. They will notice changes only when the world changes so irreversibly that it will be impossible to miss this.


    Not new, but any complex concepts. Reduced EPR, lasers, etc. Lysenko’s descendants and co: send genetics with cybernetics to the furnace without hesitation.
  43. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 8 August 2019 16: 17
    +1
    Quote: AVM
    Quote: Siberian54
    nice comments! But someone got up from the couch and checked: And how many cloudless hours per year over our homeland, what is the% of cloudy hours .. Maybe then it will become clear why military customers are dumb?


    Yes, you forget about the clouds, as you can already say that this is not tank armor. Perfectly it passes with a laser, albeit with a partial loss of power.

    Of course a 50 kW laser passes through rain, fog and drank with a "partial" loss of energy - about 90 - 95%. But if the drone is made of paper, it can still hit 1000 meters before he can make a dirk.
  44. Sckepsis
    Sckepsis 9 August 2019 07: 11
    +2
    Well, as always with Timokhin: I missed all such fools, and I’m a genius on a global scale, I’ll tell you the truth ... There is no revolution in what happened. The same thing can be done right now by the Americans and the Germans. It's just that they use only polygons so far, and the Turks have chosen Libya as a "polygon".
  45. Gosh100
    Gosh100 9 August 2019 12: 17
    0
    I specially registered to post the answer here - https://gosh100.livejournal.com/251757.html#comments
    to all these illiterate fantasies.
    In short, then:
    1) no evidence, except ravings of Arab experts on Twitter
    2) the trace of the defeat cannot in any way be the burning of the laser; it should have burned the paint around.
    3) this Turkish installation according to official performance characteristics has a power of just over 1 kW, and not 50 and is capable of knocking down maximum hanging plastic quadrocopters at a distance of 500 meters
    4) laser weapons are technical nonsense and will never hit real military targets due to insurmountable physical defects
    1. Victor Pryanichnikov
      Victor Pryanichnikov 20 August 2019 23: 49
      +1
      Finally a sober and constructive approach!
  46. Demagogue
    Demagogue 9 August 2019 15: 27
    -2
    Quote: Gosh100
    laser weapons are technical nonsense and will never hit real military targets due to insurmountable physical disabilities


    How we are indignant))
    Or maybe Google was worth it as the American Athena cuts drones from a mile and a half?
    https://youtu.be/XH6NIazR5pA

    And Peresvet only a fake of course, but if not a fake, then only satellites can blind))
    1. Gosh100
      Gosh100 10 August 2019 08: 13
      0
      Or maybe Google was worth it as the American Athena cuts drones from a mile and a half?

      at the same time it was necessary to see that it was not combat drones, but special plastic models, flying at the test site in ideal conditions at a convenient height with a convenient angle. That's just to impress an inexperienced audience and no more.

      Relight only blinds by itself. Best case scenario. Or have you already seen how it knocks down?
  47. Demagogue
    Demagogue 9 August 2019 18: 57
    -2
    Quote: Newone
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a27376996/fighter-jet-laser/


    The article is called: US Fighter Jets Could Soon Be Armed With Lasers or US Fighters will soon be armed with lasers.

    And now the full fragment from the article, if you don’t tear it out: On April 23, according to Air Force Magazine, a ground version of a laser that could someday protect military aircraft was tested at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. The Demonstrator Laser Weapon System, a ground-based surrogate for the Self-Protect High-Energy Laser Demonstrator, or SHiELD, shot down several aerial-launched missiles. The goal of the SHiELD program is to equip a F-15 Eagle fighter jet with a defensive laser pod by 2021.

    They clearly write that the F-15 should be equipped with this SHiELD laser system. The prototype passed ground tests during which shot down rockets centuries.
    1. Newone
      Newone 9 August 2019 19: 02
      +1
      You said about fighter tests. A link to test the ground version. These different stages of development are very much advanced in time. And so I read this article already and mentioned it when I wrote about intentions install the laser on the fighter.
    2. Gosh100
      Gosh100 10 August 2019 08: 17
      +1
      The article is called: US Fighter Jets Could Soon Be Armed With Lasers or US Fighters will soon be armed with lasers.

      you do not know English well, this is an incorrect translation. Could be translated as "may be". Fighters can be armed. Or they may not. And most importantly, the article deals only with the ground testing of a huge installation, which, in principle, cannot be placed on a fighter in any way. And now to make a compact one is a completely different stage, which of course is not being implemented and this project will go to the landfill like all the previous 100500 laser piu-piu.
  48. Demagogue
    Demagogue 9 August 2019 19: 06
    -1
    Quote: Newone
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a27376996/fighter-jet-laser/


    And what does it change ?? The article says that the system should be ready by 2021. It is clear that the development stage. By the way, the article is a reprint of another winter release. So it is possible that they are already testing on fighters.

    And even a hedgehog understands that such a system on a fighter is directly tested last. Missile explosives, even without warheads around the plane, start up a risky business.
    1. Gosh100
      Gosh100 10 August 2019 08: 20
      0
      Quote: Demagogue
      So it is possible that they are already testing on fighters.

      this is exactly what is excluded. This is just your imagination. At the current level of technology does not exist in principle and there cannot exist a laser of tens of kilowatts that would be marked in a container on a fighter.
  49. Demagogue
    Demagogue 10 August 2019 08: 40
    -2
    Quote: Gosh100
    Or maybe Google was worth it as the American Athena cuts drones from a mile and a half?

    at the same time it was necessary to see that it was not combat drones, but special plastic models, flying at the test site in ideal conditions at a convenient height with a convenient angle. That's just to impress an inexperienced audience and no more.

    Relight only blinds by itself. Best case scenario. Or have you already seen how it knocks down?


    Well, of course, only modelka knocks down. That is why the Americans are preparing LaWS for adoption after five years of testing on a warship.
    A more powerful 150 kilowatt Lockshid Helios system for combating PCR will be installed on a warship next year.

    https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/helios.htm

    So stop writing nonsense. Lasers are the future.

    I didn’t hold a candle according to Peresvet, but if with such dimensions it only dazzles, then this is a big minus for us.
    1. Gosh100
      Gosh100 10 August 2019 13: 34
      0
      Quote: Demagogue
      That is why the Americans are preparing LaWS for adoption after five years of testing on a warship.


      that’s why the Laws project is actually closed, and another LWSD demonstrator has been started instead of it. They will also close it and start some BSLD thread, and then SHLVD and so on at infinity.

      Quote: Demagogue
      A more powerful 150 kilowatt Lockshid Helios system for combating PCR will be installed on a warship next year.


      yeah, there will be - but again to fight with plastic models and rubber boats. Someone terribly deceived you about RCC, or you could not speak English. Well, this is the same as your test on a fighter.

      So you are talking nonsense here. Like any laser apologists.
  50. Demagogue
    Demagogue 10 August 2019 08: 42
    -1
    Quote: Gosh100
    Quote: Demagogue
    So it is possible that they are already testing on fighters.

    this is exactly what is excluded. This is just your imagination. At the current level of technology does not exist in principle and there cannot exist a laser of tens of kilowatts that would be marked in a container on a fighter.


    Fantasy is not mine, but yours, for this system is made specifically for fighters in the United States of America. State testing complex passes. All is clearly written for connoisseurs of English.

    And about the compactness: even if they do not fit this system in f-15, but only in b-52, say, or avax, then this is still a huge breakthrough.

    1. Gosh100
      Gosh100 10 August 2019 13: 37
      0
      Quote: Demagogue
      Fantasy is not mine, but yours, for this system is made specifically for fighters in the United States of America. State testing complex passes. All is clearly written for connoisseurs of English.


      It is done for fighters - but it is not tested on them, because it does not fit stupidly. Feel the difference. On the S-130 they already shoved a 100 kW laser (ATL project). There is an Internet video of how they long and hard burned paint on the hood of a passenger car. It was very funny. The project is of course closed.