Saving import? Mine complex PLUTO for the Russian Navy

46
At the July of 10 held from 14 to 2019, the naval armament of the IMDS-2019 among the many participants was one extremely unusual. Under the brand name of the Russian enterprise Scientific-Commercial Design and Production Enterprise Idrobaltika from Kaliningrad, one of the world leaders in the creation of remotely controlled underwater vehicles (TNLA), Swiss company Idrobotica (formerly Italian Gaymarine SRL), known in including (and even, probably, “mostly”) as a producer of the family of anti-mine TNPA PLUTO - one of the most widespread representatives of such equipment in the world.


Launch of PLUTO GIGAS TNPA from the Italian Navy ship




This is extremely curious for our time marked by a mass of anti-Russian sanctions, but it is just that. True, IDROBOTICA is promoting its equipment under the "domestic" brand "Yantar", but it really can not deceive anyone. Why is it important?

"Rock Star" of mine NPA


The company manufactures and delivers turnkey ready mine action systems united by the common brand PLUTO. Currently, PLUTO in one form or another is in service with the naval forces of nearly twenty countries, from Italy to Vietnam. In the United States, licensed production of such devices.

The TNLA PLUTO can be classified as STIUM, a self-propelled, remote-controlled mine finder-seeker (see the classification in “Death from nowhere. About the mine war on the sea "). They can be used to detect mines with their own gas and television cameras, and at the same time they can install demolition charges to destroy them.

Also, the Italian manufacturer has a “clean” exterminator - a one-time TNPA-killer mines.

During the development of PLUTO, the manufacturing company went for the deliberate simplification of the NLA, for “trimming” some of its technical characteristics and lowering the performance characteristics. For example, a major drawback of the entire PLUTO line is the inability to deal with silted bottom mines - the HAS frequencies do not allow one to “look” through a layer of silt. Another major drawback is the inability of the TNUT PLUTO to act in the conditions of use by the opponent of mine defenders. For PLUTO, it is necessary to “clear the road” with a self-propelled trawl towed by a helicopter trawl or without a crewed breaker ship. Only after all defenders are blown up can PLUTO be used to search for and destroy the remaining mines without the risk of losing the vehicle.

But simplicity has a downside - price. All the NPUs of the PLUTO family are, possibly, one of the cheapest devices of a similar class in the world. The Italians managed to “drop” the cost of the devices to such an extent that their loss on mines becomes acceptable, it is “unimportant” even for small naval forces. It is this feature of the products of the Italian company that caused its widest distribution in the world. PLUTO primitive, but they can have a lot. They just use. And the undermining of one apparatus on a mine, which turned out to be too “difficult” for him, is not a problem from the word “in general” - you can simply float one more. That is why PLUTO devices are so widespread.

The second key to success was that the manufacturer supplies not just a TNPA or a line of TNPA. The supplier offers a turnkey mine complex.

It includes:

- a system that received the name “Pilot” for the Russian market, which includes a ship command center or centers that allow you to control mine action, a coastal “Mine War Data Processing Center”, which allows you to deploy an automated mine action control system on its base to connect mine forces and training equipment;


Ship terminal of the Pilot system


- TNP of the PLUTO family of several sizes, capable of carrying different “payloads” (disruptive charges) and operating at different depths; It includes PLUTO itself, PLUTO PLUS with increased payload and PLUTO GIGAS - the largest and largest in the family; there is a light version of PLUTO-L;

Saving import? Mine complex PLUTO for the Russian Navy

PLUTO





PLUTO PLUS



PLUTO GIGAS


- disposable PLUTINO / MIKI destroyers intended to explode mines detected;


Plutino


- a special radio beacon with which the ship can control the TNP remotely, via radio channel, and not via fiber optic cable connecting the command center of the ship to TNPA "directly" - in the case of a buoy, only the TNPA and the beacon are connected to the buoy, and commands from the ship are sent and feedback is carried out over the air.


Beacon on the background PLUTO PLUS


The tactical and technical characteristics of the TNUT of the PLUTO family allow the apparatus to operate in the zone of strong currents, and the navigation subsystem built into the Pilot allows for precise positioning of the TNPA and the carrier on the minefield.

The experience of using PLUTO in demining has shown that minus the work on “mine defenders” and silted mines, PLUTO is very effective both in detecting mines and in their destruction.

And the most important thing. This, if you call a spade a spade, the mine defense system was already installed on Russian-made minesweepers - the MNS project 266E, supplied earlier in the Vietnam Navy. PLUTO tested on Russian technology, albeit not in Russia. Verified successfully.


Launch of the PLUTO PLUS TNPA from the side of the minesweeper of the project 266E of domestic construction, serving in the Vietnamese Navy


Trishkin Mine Defense Caftan, or Import to Rescue


Immediately let us ask ourselves the question: can our MIC create a system of similar efficiency? Yes maybe. But, first, for this it is necessary to disperse the "mafia", which is still parasitic on the subject of marine underwater weapons in our defense industry complex, secondly, it is necessary to “set brains” on the persons who substantiate the parameters required by the tactical and technical tasks for the mine action equipment, and, thirdly, it takes time. As stated in the third article in the series “Death from Nowhere”, from five to seven years.

This means that even ideally, if all the organizational measures necessary to improve the situation with the mine defense in the Russian Navy and the military-industrial complex are taken right now, then the next five years we and our allies will be defenseless against the use of mine weapons. . SSBNs that go to combat service, surface ships and multi-purpose submarines will be defenseless, the base in Tartus will be for years. Is it acceptable?

Seven years in our world - a lot. This is the term that separates the war in South Ossetia from the entry of Russia into the war in Syria. This is a whole epoch during which anything can happen, for example, the already mentioned possibility of Ukrainian “mine terrorism” can be realized in the same style in which Americans put mines in the waters of Nicaragua with the hands of their mercenaries. Or the same setting of mines in Tartus. The explosions of Russian ships on mines and especially the inability of the Navy to neutralize them will be a political catastrophe for Russia. Under these conditions, it would be reasonable to cooperate with foreigners.

We estimate the pluto cons.

The inability to detect silted mines is a problem, but in the case of defense of their bases, its acuity can be partly eliminated by the fact that continuous monitoring of the underwater situation, which in our time should be the basis of mine action, will not allow mines to silt. Placing on a crewless boat a sonar operating at low frequencies, which such mines could detect for their subsequent destruction, could become a safety net for the defense of their bases, and mandatory for operations in other regions of the world.

Also, part of the problem can be solved with the help of low-frequency mine detection on the minesweepers themselves, as was already the case in the Persian Gulf on 1991. when applying (effective use!) simple TNPA type PAP-104, generally most of the time did not have GUS (only the camera).

The problem of mine defenders can be resolved by the revival of such a class of military equipment, such as helicopters — trawl towers, as well as self-propelled trawls — ideally something like the Swedish SAAB SAM-3, but in extreme cases radio-controlled breakers similar to the old radio-controlled breakers would also be suitable 13000 project (or even they are the same, but restored and modernized, if it is still possible to do it). The same tool, by the way, helps from silted mines.


Radio-controlled breaker pr 13000


Currently in Russia in the ranks of several dozen old minesweepers of different classes and projects, each of which is equipped with a mine search mine. Also built a series of MTSchch project 12700 - extremely controversial in its concept of ships.

In relation to the old minesweepers, it seems extremely logical to quickly modernize sonar stations, especially the GAS peripheral equipment, deploy the Pilot system terminals on ships, replace the minesweeper equipment with the hoisting equipment, with the help of which the PLUTO TNPA (for our fleet apparently, they will be “Amber”) could be launched and taken back, and the equipment of places for placing on the ship both STIUM PLUTO, as well as subversive charges for them, and disposable destroyers. Such a solution will allow very quickly, in no more than two years, basically to restore the ability of our Navy to fight mines. In any case, all sorts of terrorist cunning, the American Quickstrike dropping from the air, and generally any mines that did not have time to grow silt, will cease to be a problem right away, and mine defenders in an extreme case will be undermined when TNLA approaches them, which can endure, since TNPA PLUTO, recall, are notable for their low price.

In relation to the new minesweepers of the 12700 project (for more, see the article by M. Klimov “What is wrong with the“ newest ”PMK of the 12700 project”) it is necessary to recognize that the ship has an excellent GAS mine detection and command center on board, and first of all it needs to replace an inadequate “ideology” seeker-destroyer - the only SPA (self-propelled underwater vehicle) ISPUM with cheaper and sane TNPA and disposable destroyers of the “military Type. Retrofitting 12700 project ships will increase their combat value simply “To infinity times”, especially considering their size, thanks to which you can carry a large supply of fuel and TNPA and destroyers on board, sufficient to clear almost any minefield (and in this case a large displacement MTSCH project 12700). SPA ISPUM can be left solely as a means of searching for mines, without using them for their destruction.

It is also definitely necessary to have mine forces deployed on warships, so that warships in some cases could overcome the minefields on their own. PLUTO is the optimal weaponry of such units.

An additional bonus is the opportunity to complete the minesweeper of the 266МЭ project, which is 80%, which is already equipped with diesel-deficient diesel engines, which is ready for Kamchatka, which is in Kamchatka, which is in charge of deploying the SSBN, which is located at the Middle Nevsky Shipyard. 955 "Borey" / 955А "Borey-A" project, which cannot be performed with the existing antediluvian trawls.


Unfinished minesweeper pr. 266ME on SNSS


PLUTO can give new life to the 10750E raid minesweepers - small and inexpensive ships that also have a GAS mine detection, but too small for SPA SPAR, and do not have the necessary electrical power to use it. PLUTO, on the other hand, is quite suitable for these ships both in terms of their mass-dimensional characteristics and power supply parameters. Thus, even a theoretical restart of the production of these simple and inexpensive ships becomes justified.


RTSC Ave. 10750


Are there any disadvantages in the purchase of Italian technology? About mines defenders and silted common mine has already been said above. Another argument "against" may be that domestic developers "lose" the client - the Navy, a foreign one.

However, there is nothing to worry about, the purchase of foreign anti-mine complexes does not eliminate the need to develop its own, this measure allows you to close the critical "hole" of the country's defense "here and now", moreover, our Navy and defense industry will be able, looking at foreign products understand lucidly, “how to do it”, and in the future to build on this understanding, having a “standard” before your eyes. And the time factor matters.

Thus, it is worth working with “Idrobotica” / “Idrobaltika”. While other manufacturers of military equipment refuse to cooperate with Russia because of the sanctions imposed on our country, one of the world leaders, seeking, on the contrary, to circumvent them, is simply a gift that cannot be abandoned.
46 comments
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  1. +2
    26 July 2019 05: 51
    In fact, the system is old, it is surprising that the states did not print in their journals. To be honest, from advanced systems, it is difficult for the boat to take refuge. (not yet for nothing, like a piece of the bottom).
  2. +1
    26 July 2019 05: 59
    Well, that’s all right. Everything is so logical that the mosquito of the nose will not undermine.
    Close your plants, if not profitable. Designers in the KB pay a penny that they would run away.
    Because the most important thing - We will buy everything in the west! From bolts and bearings to planes and underwater robots. Everything!
    We will get great kickbacks and we will live and live, but goodness is to gain! Envy of the damned bourgeois, with their hateful sanctions!
    1. +5
      26 July 2019 07: 43
      Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
      Well, that’s all right. ....... envy of the damned bourgeois, with their hateful sanctions!

      Do you want to ride, or checkers?
      What is more important, the income of Russian owners of defense industry enterprises or protection against mines?
      1. +2
        26 July 2019 08: 09
        Do you want to ride, or checkers?
        What is more important, the income of Russian owners of defense industry enterprises or protection against mines?

        What are you talking about? Or why?
        1. +11
          26 July 2019 08: 20
          Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
          What are you talking about?

          I’m talking about the domestic defense industry.
          Our military was blown up by mines in Afghanistan, in Abkhazia. in Central Asia. in two Chechen wars. And the "generals from the military-industrial complex" did not really care about this from the high bell tower.

          Until the evil Serdyukov appeared, who was haunted by the laurels of Robert Gates, who at one time totally increased the protection of American troops from undermining. And this bastard Taburetkin decided not to wait another 30 years for fulfilling the promises, but to procure vehicles on the side that were protected from bombings.
          Generals from the military-industrial complex could not bear the fact that such money passed by their grabs, and were simply forced to intensify their development.
          1. +2
            26 July 2019 19: 46
            to that

            Mine blast of an armored car Lynx (IVECO 65E19WM) of the Russian Armed Forces in Syria. Those inside were alive, and not even hurt.

            https://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/1393836.html
        2. +6
          26 July 2019 16: 15
          Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
          What are you talking about? Or why?

          It is likely that at present our Navy does not have the means to combat modern mines. Almost all of our minesweepers lagged behind two generations, and the most modern, lagging behind just one generation, have two pieces for the entire Navy. The development of domestic means of combating modern mines is 5-7 years in the ideal case. All this time we will not be able to provide anti-mine defense even when the SSBN is withdrawn from the bases - because there is nothing.
          The fleet urgently needs at least something to close the gaping hole in the PMO - at the time of the creation of the domestic counterpart.
    2. +9
      26 July 2019 07: 58
      Sigismund Voldemarovich ... you are probably just from that mafia that you have not yet dispersed judging from the post above. After all, they already offer a live search engine with all the bells and whistles and very cheap. The design bureaus already pay a penny to design engineers ... except for the bastards stomping managers and directors of all the ruling (I take my impression from the articles on the mine-sweeping business of our Navy, the cat is at a fairly low level in terms of global development trends for such systems) - stagnation and stagnation. TURNED-ROUND TECHNOLOGY ... doesn't say anything? And this means the transfer of full-cycle production technology. Let those who are assigned to them by the nature of service in the literal and figurative sense engage in kickbacks. Yes, judging by the review, this is not a primitive technology from a word in general ... UNIVERSALLY SHOULD BE TAKEN fellow And let our corresponding design bureaus do their own thing, with an eye on IT.
      1. -1
        26 July 2019 08: 15
        You wrote the same as I did in other words.
    3. +8
      26 July 2019 10: 15
      Foolishness and obstinacy, nonsense, venality, sister-in-law, kickbacks, backed up for some by urapatriotism and voila - we are twenty years behind on drones, even more on torpedoes and mines, on MRAPs, they just caught up and so on. But for "you" it is important to feed the local untalented directories-managers and absolutely purple on what is happening now. Do you seriously think that the salary of engineers and designers depends on the fact that there are orders, or there is R&D, or there is import? I will upset you, it depends on the position of the STATE! Those. The power of those who hold it and those who have it. Stupidity is not a vice, but a reason ...
    4. +1
      26 July 2019 10: 39
      Quote: Obi Wan Kenobi
      Because the most important thing is that we will buy everything in the west!

      Why such tantrums? Not all, but only that which they themselves cannot control due to the loss of technology.
      1. +5
        26 July 2019 19: 37
        Quote: Alex_59
        Why such tantrums? Not all, but only that which they themselves cannot control due to the loss of technology.

        From the dialogs on the last day of the salon:
        - You can't let them into our market! Already "ate" by the "guardians"!
        - They are not "guardians", and everything works for them ...
        - Yes, everything is simple and elementary for them, that ... [the names of a number of domestic firms working on TNLA topics] will not be able to do the same?!?!?
        - They can. More precisely, they could. Would. BUT NOT DONE. What was stopping them? And if not even for the Navy, then for ... [a large civilian customer looking for such TNLA]. What prevented them from doing?
        Now - yes they can. But after how many YEARS? - because this is a new OCD (i.e. 2-4 years)! And the requirements for this OCD, someone is able to issue us?!?!? For in an amicable way, we need a serious complex experimental research work on the subject! And this is two years - only for R&D (which still needs to be opened!). The only alternative was Mayevka, but it was "killed" and the GK was fired. EVERYTHING, today we simply have nowhere to take a heavy TNLA PMO. And in these conditions, it is simply stupid to refuse the offers of Idrobaltika.
        And one more factor - yes, their TNPA is VERY SIMPLE. Even the "primitive" ones. But they work. and successfully solve their problems. And this is also a lesson for our developers and the fleet - in the sense that fantastic requirements and "capabilities" are shoved into products and complexes, without thinking about the price, timing, mass scale and ease of operation! So let them learn from abroad. - and those and others!

        https://mina030.livejournal.com/6647.html
  3. +5
    26 July 2019 06: 59
    To refuse to acquire already gained experience and developments is their own additional and considerable costs. The bicycle has already been invented, to study, try, develop your own, taking into account the knowledge and technology.
    The swarm tactics of cheap drones are interesting instead of breakers and surface minesweepers with a distribution of functions but in a single information space. This is where PLUTO can be useful.
  4. 0
    26 July 2019 08: 00
    I am not an expert in this area, but if many countries have this technology, then it is not the latest. So what's the point of taking old stuff? Probably we also have our own developments and technologies in this area. So why waste money like Serdyukov? After reading the material, I got the impression that the meaning of this article is a hidden advertisement for a "sale of a product lying around in a warehouse". Or maybe I'm wrong?
    1. +6
      26 July 2019 09: 19
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      I am not a specialist in this field, but if many countries have this technology, then it is not the latest.

      And here you do not have to be a specialist. Under Stalin, too, obsolete technologies were purchased, but technological equipment was used for this, and only in this way did the USSR acquire STZ and ChTZ, GAZ and aircraft engine plants. And it happened only when the Great Depression began in the USA and Europe. A similar situation is developing now and if it is possible to purchase the latest technology, then why not use it?
    2. +1
      26 July 2019 16: 38
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      So why overspend in the style of Serdyukov?

      Then, if Serdyukov hadn't littered with money, our armed forces would still use the Tipchak, consider the SVD a sniper rifle and wait for the Kolomna diesel engines to be fine-tuned.
    3. +2
      26 July 2019 17: 16
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      then it is not the newest. So what's the point of taking junk

      Not so simple. Oddly enough it sounds, but buying the latest means buying a pig in a poke. Nobody knows exactly how it will work, but there will be a sea of ​​childhood diseases. But to use an already developed system is already a guarantee of quality.
      Quote: Vitaly Tsymbal
      So why overspend in the style of Serdyukov?

      Not all that he did was bad.
    4. 0
      28 July 2019 12: 43
      imho, the answer is this. Precisely because "many countries have this technology," it has been worked out, its strengths and weaknesses (described in the article) are already known, there are cases of combat use. Therefore, the military, as people who are reasonably conservative (they do not "measure innovation", but need an instrument adequate to the current conditions and tasks), will choose a product that "is not the latest." Plus the question of time and price - R&D, R&D are expensive and time-consuming, with an unpredictable result (change of contractor, bankruptcy, etc. "prose"). And they need to work now.

      There were good articles on this resource or on vpk.news about the approach to modernization in the US Navy - coarsening:
      a) Reasonable conservatism - not too much innovation, where it does not promise multiple benefits.
      b) Consistency - it is better to optimize well several relatively inexpensive components and technological processes. How to introduce a "wunderwaffe", which is not yet known how it will behave and how it will fit into technological chains (into the system of application, repair and supply, training, etc.).

      And all the failures of Americans are when they forget these own principles (they usually “forget” not disinterestedly).

      I agree that you need to develop your own perspective. But first it is better to use something, to clarify your requirements. Similar to the topic of the article about the French converting a helicopter carrier for Austrian UAVs, https://topwar.ru/160026-francuzskij-mistral-lishitsja-pilotiruemyh-vertoletov.html, they took what would allow the technology to be tested. Based on the results, they will write MIL-SPEC, draw up a Competent and Detailed Terms of Reference. And not that "filkin certificate" that we receive from the Customers, where there is nothing from the wishes of the Operator. Because TK is written alone, but to exploit (then bish fight with this) other. And then it begins: "This is unnecessary for us ... but you don't have this ... it doesn't work like that ...".
  5. +1
    26 July 2019 08: 02
    DO it!
    There are fears that a foreign manufacturer will slip something wrong, well, then there should be your own experts, check everything!
    do nothing, remain with your fears and without working GOOD equipment .... but nobody forbids you to study yours and do your own, does not bother .... but you have to earn a lot of money !!! and not just from the budget to receive idle exhaust, like that.
    1. +1
      26 July 2019 19: 35
      Quote: rocket757
      There are fears that a foreign manufacturer will slip something wrong, well, then there should be your own experts, check everything!


      everything is very simple there (even Primitive), but ... WORKS
      in short - OPTIMUM
      1. +1
        26 July 2019 20: 08
        Quote: Fizik M
        in short - OPTIMUM

        In general, I have a big, sick "TOOTH" against everything mine!
        In general, the Italians have always been great fellows for maritime affairs !!! and you don’t need to speak for Swiss quality, top class !!!
        NEEDS TO TAKE AND LEARN, LEARN .......
        Also, to seriously spur your merchants from budget money! It is clear that its own industry, which is very important in this matter, is in a complete f-f-pen! But all the early should be given a real, desired result, and not money "cut" without a significant result!
  6. +3
    26 July 2019 08: 18
    Well, if you don’t have your own, you can learn from someone else, 6k wikers reminds
    1. +1
      26 July 2019 14: 40
      From Vickers6t "grew": T-34, T-62, T-72 and T-90
      1. 0
        27 July 2019 11: 19
        Quote: vladcub
        From Vickers6t "grew": T-34, T-62, T-72 and T-90

        Svyatoslav, let me disagree. The tanks you listed grew from Christie's tank. Vickers 6-ton is a slightly different direction: T-50, T-70, self-propelled guns SU-76.
  7. -1
    26 July 2019 10: 35
    But the question is important and serious for our AUGs and the growing number of warships in our fleets.
  8. +1
    26 July 2019 10: 43
    I support dear Timokhin, a very important topic, we need more and more efficient minesweepers. The question is whether the Italians will install secret bookmarks in their equipment for import, just as they put TNT in their Cesare and then blew it up under the noses of the parquet admirals in the bay of Sevastopol? And wouldn't it be better to radically improve the work of your designers, disperse the "effective" managers?
    1. +1
      26 July 2019 14: 44
      With regard to Cesare, I am inclined to believe that Borgose & Co "worked"
      1. -2
        26 July 2019 22: 33
        only a small detonating charge could deliver the borghese, the bulk of TNT was placed in advance
  9. +4
    26 July 2019 10: 44
    Everything is correctly written.
    By the way (thought out loud). Here the author outlined a competent and modern strategic action plan. Does not cause rejection. And say out loud that in fact it is tracing from the Stalinist plan of industrialization - for many, the quake will happen. laughing
    Yes, and the Chinese in the same way rose.
    1. +4
      26 July 2019 17: 05
      Quote: Alex_59
      By the way (thoughts in the ear). Here the author outlined a competent and modern strategic plan of action. It does not cause rejection. And say out loud that in essence it is tracing paper from the Stalinist plan of industrialization - for many, the shake will happen

      Chihix ... funny, but the opposite is true:
      The author outlined a competent and modern strategic plan of action for the purchase of foreign equipment to close the hole during the development of his own analogues - and this causes sharp rejection among adherents Russia must do everything herself, feed the West, and our design bends are bent и but under Stalin everything was different. But say out loud that in essence it is tracing paper from the Stalinist plan for industrialization - and they will calm down right there. smile
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  11. +3
    26 July 2019 19: 46
    If this is an enterprise in Russian territory and under Russian jurisdiction, then under certain conditions, taking into account the requirements of the Russian Navy and the requirements for localization of production of the Russian government to foreign manufacturers, this option is quite possible. It is very likely that making the required changes to the design of existing models is easier than creating a new one from scratch.
    1. +1
      26 July 2019 20: 27
      Quote: Viknt
      If this is an enterprise in Russian territory and under Russian jurisdiction, then under certain conditions, taking into account the requirements of the Russian Navy and the requirements for localization of production of the Russian government to foreign manufacturers, this option is quite possible. It is very likely that making the required changes to the design of existing models is easier than creating a new one from scratch.

      IMHO - buy "as is"
      we need a SERIES
      exchange for ours - only "critical components" - warhead and its means of blocking and command detonation, radio channel
  12. 0
    26 July 2019 19: 54
    my personal comment on this situation
    https://mina030.livejournal.com/6647.html
    links are there (including Topwar)
  13. 0
    26 July 2019 20: 01
    Well, 3 relevant photos next:



  14. 0
    26 July 2019 21: 53
    Quote: Fizik M
    only "critical components"


    In addition to "critical components", there may be many other things not "critical", from bolts and nuts to external equipment for service and maintenance. Cheapness is not achieved just like that, it is the maximum simplification and relief. Even with a cursory acquaintance, you can find a lot that requires changes, revisions, additions.
    1. +1
      26 July 2019 21: 57
      The story with Fiat Zhiguli comes to mind, the Italian model had to be seriously redesigned in US, and they did it for Italians absolutely free of charge, and then they bought it from them for money.
      1. 0
        26 July 2019 22: 01
        In particular, the issue of exploitation in the north may arise. You may need a special coating for something else.
        1. +1
          27 July 2019 12: 11
          Quote: Viknt
          In particular, the issue of exploitation in the north may arise. You may need a special coating for something else.

          from the same Norwegians, PLUTO have been working since the beginning of 90x

          https://www.naval-technology.com/projects/oksoy/attachment/oksoy3/
          it's not "French ..mo"
          Germans, with minuses, by the way, too, all the rules
          came across photos of their exercises with "Sifox" - with icy cables, devices
      2. +1
        27 July 2019 12: 12
        Quote: Viknt
        The story with Fiat Zhiguli comes to mind, the Italian model had to be seriously redesigned in US, and they did it for Italians absolutely free of charge, and then they bought it from them for money.

        not the case
        here we are just learning
  15. +1
    27 July 2019 11: 35
    Thanks to the author for the article. The main troubles in the domestic defense industry are clearly identified, the need for urgent action is proven. The leadership of the Russian military-industrial complex is really needed a kick, and the Navy’s command, specifically in terms of military operations, would not hurt.
  16. 0
    27 July 2019 18: 31
    Quote: Fizik M
    not the case
    here we are just learning


    Even in the most sad case, there is something to work on and what to offer. Even without an idea of ​​the stuffing, we can assume differences in voltages, frequencies, electrical machines, etc. It is necessary to immediately lay down the line of devices in the requirements, modularity, suitability for modernization, etc.
  17. 0
    27 July 2019 18: 35
    Quote: Fizik M
    from the same Norwegians, PLUTO have been working since the beginning of 90x


    As far as I know, the temperature regimes in the Norwegians and to the east have significant differences. Everything must be checked and verified by ourselves. This experience is only with us.
  18. 0
    2 August 2019 16: 31
    For the first time, plus Mr. Timokhin, was the light turned upside down?
  19. 0
    4 August 2019 21: 29
    For a long time I wanted to ask Klimov, as a specialist on the topic: why are mine destroyers (especially disposable) needed. Why, after detecting and identifying a mine, one cannot detonate with a deep bomb with RBUs, which are installed on almost every of our warships?
    1. 0
      6 August 2019 15: 25
      Quote: Newone
      For a long time I wanted to ask Klimov, as a specialist on the topic: why are mine destroyers (especially disposable) needed. Why, after detecting and identifying a mine, one cannot detonate with a deep bomb with RBUs, which are installed on almost every of our warships?

      in order to cause detonation of a mine with a charge of mass roughly 100kg (analog - warhead RSL-10) it must be placed on a mine with an accuracy of the order of 1 meters, and the dispersion ellipse of the RSL is roughly TWO ORDER more
      in addition, the main Navy RBU - RBU-6000, warheads of the RSL-60 generally 23,5 kg ...

      reducing the mass of MIP charges is one of the MIP "trends", but this question is extremely difficult
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        6 August 2019 18: 24
        Thank. Now the need for disposable destroyers is quite clear.