Surface ships against the aircraft. Rocket era

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The first decades after the Second World War were marked by a real revolution in the naval business. The massive appearance of the radar in all naval forces, automation of anti-aircraft fire control, the emergence of anti-aircraft missile systems and anti-ship missiles, the emergence of nuclear submarines with unlimited range, high speed underwater, and the lack of the need to ascend during a combat campaign in the amount changed the sea battle to unrecognizable .

Surface ships against the aircraft. Rocket era

Sea war of the end of the twentieth century. Launch of the RCC "Exochet" from the "Super Etandarov" of the Argentine Navy




A little later, anti-ship missiles launched from aircraft, all-weather deck and basic shock became a mass phenomenon aviation, air refueling, long-range ground-based radars.

The world has changed, and the fleets have changed with it. But have the capabilities of surface ships changed to counter aircraft attacks? We will repeat just in case the main conclusions from the experience of the Second World War (see the article "Surface ships against aircraft. World War II".).

So, abbreviated quote from the first part:

In cases where a single surface ship or a small group of surface ships encounters large, well-trained aviation forces that purposefully carry out a large-scale operation aimed at the destruction of these particular ships, there is no chance. The ship is slow and the planes that did not destroy it the first time will then return again and again, and with each attack, the ship will be less and less able to resist - unless of course it is sunk at all immediately.
...
But in cases when a single ship or group operating in the zone of enemy domination in the air, they retain the surprise of their actions, they act according to a clear plan that allows using all the flaws of aviation as a combat vehicle (using the time of day and weather, taking into account the reaction time of aviation to the detected combat ship when planning an operation and choosing points for changing course, masking when entering the bases, high speed at the transition and unpredictable maneuvering, choosing an unexpected course for reconnaissance of the enemy after any contact with his forces, not only with aircraft), have a strong anti-aircraft weapon and a trained crew, observe discipline when using radio communications, have everything they need on board to fight for survivability right during the battle and after it - the situation becomes reversed. Small-scale aerial reconnaissance forces are generally powerless to harm such a ship, as are the duty attack squadrons alerted upon its detection.
Even the mistress says that in the overwhelming number of cases, when such “prepared” surface ships entered hostile waters, they won fights against aviation. The same Black Sea fleet is quite an example, because every ship, even a dead one, first TENS 10 times went where the Luftwaffe could act and act freely.
This is exactly what the correct conclusions are about what we should learn from the experience of WWII. This does not detract from the role of naval aviation, it does not reduce its danger for surface ships, and especially for supply vessels, it does not cancel its ability to destroy absolutely any ship if necessary, or a group of ships.
But it shows well that it has a limit of possibilities in the first place, and that in order to succeed it needs to create a huge superiority in forces over the enemy in the second place.
This is the real outcome of the Second World War in terms of the ability of surface warships to conduct combat operations in an area where the enemy has the ability to use aircraft or air superiority in general.


Are these conclusions true to the present? Fortunately, the emergence of nuclear weapons saved mankind from the nightmare of full-scale planetary wars. This, however, led to some virtualization of the combat capabilities of the fleets - we simply do not know what a serious sea war will look like with the use of modern technology. No teachings and no mathematical modeling will give such an understanding in full.

However, a number of countries have some combat experience of modern naval war. But before analyzing it, it is worth paying attention to military maneuvers - in that part that would differ little from a real war, happen such. First of all, it concerns the detection of ships, which in serious maneuvers are always carried out with the same exertion of forces as in a real war.

Let us ask ourselves the question: was it really possible for surface ships to slip away from aviation in the era of radars with a range of hundreds and sometimes thousands of kilometers? After all, if you turn your attention to the experience of the Second World War, then the key to the success of a surface ship is not only its air defense, but also the ability to be where the enemy does not expect it and is not looking. Already not looking, or not yet looking, no difference. The sea is big.

Deception of the enemy, counter tracking and separation


Article “How can a rocket ship sink an aircraft carrier?” A few examples" examples of the confrontation of rocket ships and the aircraft carrier were dismantled. Let us briefly list how the surface ships (who had no cover at all) managed during the training, in an environment as close as possible to the combat, to escape the enemy, who used carrier-based aircraft for their search, including DRLO aircraft.

1. Disguise under merchant ships. URO ships were moving along trade routes, at the speed of merchant ships, not showing themselves to turn on the radar, in full, as Vice-Admiral Hank Mastin said, “electromagnetic silence”. The radar was turned on only at the time preceding the conventional launch of the missiles. Air reconnaissance, focusing on radar signals, was unable to classify the detected ships, taking them for merchant ships.

2. Dispersal. Admiral Woodward, later commanding the British naval unit during the Falklands War, simply dispersed all of his ships so that American pilots from the aircraft carrier Coral Sea simply would not have been able to “melt down” (by convention, of course) all of them before darkness. And at night, the last "surviving" destroyer was the British ... disguised as a cruise liner (see paragraph 1, as they say). And in the end went to the aircraft carrier at a distance of a rocket strike.

3. The use of the unexpected for the enemy, "wrong" tactics, such as for which you can and "scolding" get. During the conditional strike on the "Eisenhower" Mastin commanded the Forrestal AUG. All doctrinal installations of the US Navy, all combat training, the entire experience of the exercises said that it was the Forrestal carrier aircraft that were supposed to be the main striking force in the operation. But Mastin simply went on an aircraft carrier to an area where, from the point of view of the combat mission, his finding was completely meaningless, stopped flights, and sent Eisenhower missile escort ships, which again were disguised in civilian traffic, focusing on passive means of detection and intelligence from external sources.

Aviation lost in all cases, and in the case of the American exercises it lost dry - URO ships unhindered took to the distance of a rocket strike on an aircraft carrier and worked on it with rockets at the moment when its deck was filled with airplanes ready for combat flight. With bombs, with fuel ... They never got their way.

The British did not work dry. Of the entire strike group, one ship survived, and if this attack were to be in reality, it would have been sunk by escort ships. But - they would have sunk after the "Exocates" would have hit the aircraft carrier. Woodward simply did not have room for maneuver in that area, and the only way to get his way was to substitute the ships for the strike of the planes, which he did. These teachings turned out to be prophetic - very soon after that, Woodward had to substitute his own ships for real air strikes, take losses and, in general, lead the war "on the verge of a foul" ...

But the loudest example was given by completely different teachings ...

From the memoirs of Rear Admiral V.A. Karev "Unknown Soviet" Pearl Harbor ":

Thus, we remained in the dark about where the Midway AUG is located. And only on the afternoon of Sunday, a report was received from our coastal radio squadron in Kamchatka that our posts commemorate the work of the ships at frequencies of the AUG Midway intra-firing link.
It was a shock. The radio finding results showed that the newly formed carrier-assault strike compound (Enterprise and Midway), consisting of more than 30 ships, maneuvers 300 miles southeast of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and conducts flights of deck aircraft at a distance of 150 km from our coast.
Urgent report to the General Staff of the Navy. Navy Commander Admiral fleet Soviet Union Gorshkov S.G. makes a decision immediately. Urgently send the Watchdog “Storozhevoy”, three Project 671 RTM multipurpose nuclear submarines for tracking ACS, organize continuous aerial reconnaissance, fully alert all the Pacific Fleet’s naval missile aircraft, establish close cooperation with the air defense system in the Far East, and bring them into full combat readiness all parts and ships of the Pacific Fleet reconnaissance.
In response to such aggressive actions by the Americans to prepare for the departure a naval division of the naval-carrying aviation in readiness, on Monday to designate an airborne missile attack on an aircraft carrier. At the same time, multi-purpose nuclear-powered submarines with cruise missiles were also preparing to strike.
13 September, Monday. The reconnaissance of the Pacific Fleet will have to locate the AUS and deploy a naval missile-bearing aviation division. But at that time, radio silence was introduced on the ships of the US aircraft carrier. All radar stations are turned off. We are carefully studying the data of optical space intelligence. There is no reliable data on the location of aircraft carriers. Nevertheless, the departure of the MRA from Kamchatka took place. In an empty place.
Only a day later, on Tuesday, 14 of September, we learn from the data of the air defense posts in the Kuril Islands that the carrier-based strike force is maneuvering east of the island of Paramushir (the Kuril Islands), conducting flights of carrier-based aircraft.


Example exercises NorPac Fleetex Ops'82 Some people may not seem to be completely “clean” - firstly, the Americans substituted the whole AUG with the aircraft carrier “Enterprise” as bait - without this, they would not have succeeded in hiding the Midway AUG from our air reconnaissance. In a real war, they would have had such a trick only during the first sudden strike, which in itself is very unlikely. Secondly, during the operation, the Americans actively used their aircraft for disinformation, which, by their actions, created a distorted picture of what was happening in the intelligence of the Pacific Fleet.

But the specific episode with the departure of the already combined carrier-assault strike link with two aircraft carriers from the conventional strike of missile carriers from Kamchatka is just what we are interested in. A ship connection detected by enemy reconnaissance must be attacked by its aircraft. But by the time the aircraft arrives, there is no ship connection on the spot, and nowhere in the detection range of the aircraft is the radar either. Exactly this element, which the Americans showed us, was made out of touch with the presence of aviation in the strike compound. It could also be done by connecting missile ships.

How is it going?

Those who were involved in the interpretation of intelligence, know how. At present, a naval connection at a large distance from the coast can be detected by optical-electronic space reconnaissance, over-the-horizon radar, aerial reconnaissance, surface ships, radio electronic and electronic reconnaissance means, and in some cases, submarines. At the same time, the boat is extremely limited in the classification of such a contact, its hydroacoustics may simply not understand what they heard, and the data transmission from the submarine will in any case be carried out with the planned contact, as a result of which the data will become outdated. Chasing a "contact" boat, as a rule, can not, it will mean the loss of stealth. The range at which it detects ships is greater than that of ship-based sonar systems, but much smaller than that of radar facilities.

What can a group of surface ships oppose to such a detection? Firstly, the orbits of satellites and the time of their flight over any part of the world ocean are known in advance. The same Americans widely use maneuvers under the cover of cloudiness. Secondly, masking under trade traffic works against satellites and ZGRLS - ships are scattered among merchant ships, their construction does not bear signs of a combat formation order, as a result, the enemy simply sees a break through the same type of signals on the intensive merchant shipping route, and there is no possibility to classify them.

Again, the Americans understand that sooner or later their opponent, that is, we will be able to obtain more accurate data about the reflected radar signal and analyze them, so they have used and used various tactical schemes for counter tracking for many years. For example, in the course of the “window” between the span of the aircraft carrier satellites and the tanker already leaving the junction, they switch places. Ship signatures are made similar by various methods. In a number of cases, it is possible to deceive with such methods not only reconnaissance on the “coast” but also tracking ships hanging by the Americans “ha tail” - for example, it was in 1986 during the attack of the US Navy on Libya - the Soviet Navy simply lost an aircraft carrier, who participated in the strike, and intelligence could not track the rise of the aircraft.

Thirdly, the care to that very “electromagnetic silence” described by Admiral Mastien and many others is applied against various types of radio intelligence - it is impossible to detect the radiation of a target that emits nothing. Actually, this is what they usually do when they hide.

Aerial reconnaissance is a much more obvious threat on the one hand - if they found an aircraft or a group of ships, they discovered it. But on the other hand, they need to know where to find the target. A modern combat aircraft, such as, for example, the Tu-95, can detect the signature of a working shipborne radar system more than a thousand kilometers from the ship - the tropospheric refraction of centimeter radio waves contributes to a very wide spread of radiation from the radar. But if the radar does not radiate? The ocean is huge, where to look for targets among hundreds, if not thousands of similar to indistinguishable contacts, observed with the help of SGRLS is not clear. A submarine is a risk - but in any kind of search its target detection range in the open ocean is still insufficient, and the data quickly becomes outdated. For effective use of submarines, you need to know about where the attacked target will soon be. This is probably not always.

In the case of detection of the ship's connection at sea, the latter can destroy the aircraft or the enemy's ship, cutting off the transfer of the location of the connection to the enemy, after which it will be necessary to get out from under a potential air strike.

How to do it? An abrupt change of course, in some cases dispersal of forces, leaving the dangerous area at maximum speed. When performing such a maneuver, the commander of the compound knows how much time the enemy needs so that the compound will be attacked by truly large aviation forces large enough to destroy it. No air force and no naval aviation has the ability to constantly hold entire regiments of airplanes in the air - at all times, the air forces that had the task of destroying the naval formations were waiting for an order to strike in the alert position at the airfield, in “readiness number two”. In another way it is impossible, only individual units can be on duty in the air, in exceptional cases and not for long - a squadron.

Next comes his majesty calculator. The rise of the regiment on alert from readiness number two, its construction in order of battle and the exit to the desired course is ideally an hour. Next, the distance from the air bases, which are known to the commander of the naval compound, is taken, the speed with which enemy aircraft go to the target according to past experience, the typical force squad for additional intelligence, the detection range of surface radars of enemy aircraft ... and everything, in fact, areas to be transferred ship group to avoid hitting easily miscalculated. That is how the Americans in the 1982 year, and many times after that, came out of the conventional attack of the USSR Navy MRA. We left successfully.

The task of the commander of the operation of the ship's shock group ultimately boils down to the fact that at the moment when its location supposedly should be opened by the enemy (and it is likely to be opened sooner or later), be at such a distance from its air bases in order to have time left for way out of the blow.

What happens if the blowout succeeds? Now the ship shock group gets a head start in time. If the enemy has other air regiments, then now he will have to throw some of the forces back at the air reconnaissance, find the ship group, raise the strike forces, and all over again. If the enemy does not have other aviation forces in the theater, then it is still worse for him - now all the time that the strike forces of aviation will return to the airfield, re-prepare for a combat flight, wait for the aerial reconnaissance data that is relevant at the very moment when the flight is again it will be possible to fly again on the strike, the ship group will act freely. And the only threat to it will be that the enemy’s reconnaissance will also be able to attack it when detected, but this raises the question of who is who — the ship is far from defenseless, the group of ships is all the more, and there are excellent examples from combat experience, which will be discussed below. This regiment of aircraft can, in theory, "crush" with a mass of air defense missiles of the ship group, but a couple or two pairs of aircraft cannot.

Suppose, the KUG has won eight hours from one massive air strike failed by the enemy to a potential next one. It is at a good speed of approximately 370-400 kilometers traveled in any direction. This is the distance from Sapporo to Aniva Bay (Sakhalin) with regard to maneuvering. Or from Sevastopol to Constanta. Or from Novorossiysk to any port on the eastern part of the Black Sea coast of Turkey. Or from Baltiysk to the coast of Denmark.

This is a lot, especially considering that in fact the modern ship does not need to come close to shore to attack a ground target.

But eight hours is not the limit. Other aircraft so much for one only inter-flight service will require. Without taking flight time.

At the same time, it should be understood that modern ships are armed with cruise missiles and, in principle, such a CBG can attack any airfield, and any important radar from a distance of "a thousand kilometers or more." Unfulfilled airstrike for the air regiment may be the last mistake and after its landing at the home airfield cruise missiles from ships that could not be destroyed will fall on it. And this is what awaits various types of SGRLS immediately, long before the first rise of strike aircraft.

This is true for the ships of our opponents, this is true for our ships. They can do all this, we can too. Such actions, of course, require extensive support - above all intelligence. They require excellent training of personnel - apparently superior to the one that has personnel in the Navy of most countries. But they are possible. No less possible than air strikes.

Of course, all this should not be understood as a guaranteed safety of surface ships from air attacks. Aviation may well "catch" the ships off guard, and then the military story replenished with another tragedy like the sinking of the "Prince of Wales." The probability of this option is not zero, it is, frankly, high.

But the probability of the opposite is not lower. Contrary to popular belief.

Combat experience. Falklands


But how do modern surface ships behave under attack from the air? After all, to avoid one-time departure of large enemy aviation forces is one thing, but after all, an air reconnaissance can also be armed and can attack a detected target after transmitting information about its location. The duty link, unlike the regiment, may well be on duty with rockets in the air, and then the strike on the detected ships will be delivered almost instantly. What does the closest experience say about the vulnerability of modern warships to air strikes?

The only episode where such events took place in a more or less massive amount is the Falklands War.


Atmospheric video from the scene (to feel)

It was the largest after the Second World War, and in the course of its naval forces suffered the greatest losses in the post-war history of the ship. It is customary to think that on the Falklands, surface ships suffered unjustifiably high losses from the actions of aviation, and, as many think, almost proved that their time was up. Understand this war in more detail.

The history of this conflict and the course of the fighting are set forth in the mass of sources and in sufficient detail, but practically all commentators leave out of their consideration the completely obvious features of this war.

A Ship's Fool to Fight a Fort (Foolishness to fight a fortress for a ship). This phrase is attributed to Nelson, although for the first time it is recorded in one of the letters of Admiral John Fisher. Its meaning is that to throw with the ships on the defense prepared in advance (no matter what is behind this word) is nonsense. And the British really acted that way. Their standard scheme was to first achieve dominance at sea, then completely block the enemy’s ability to threaten the British naval forces, and only then land a large and powerful landing force.

The war for the Falklands went strictly the opposite. The English strike force commander, John Woodward, was expressly forbidden to conduct military operations outside the zone to which the Teacher government wanted to limit the war. Britain found itself in a politically difficult position and the entire burden of this position fell on the Royal Navy.

Woodward had to take the island by storm in conditions when the enemy had a mass of air forces to protect them. Take tight time limits before seasonal storms hit the South Atlantic. Without resorting to either blockade actions or “offensive mining” from submarines, attacking the enemy “in the forehead”. He had to throw his ships into battle against the whole of Argentina, and not only (and not so much) of its fleet. This required such a specific step as the “Battle of the Bomb Alley”, and it was this that in many ways caused the losses that the British suffered as a result.

Let us clarify the question of how surface ships showed themselves vulnerable to air strikes, while on the high seas as a result of this war? We remember that today the main combat missions - from the blockade to strikes with cruise missiles. Ships perform it in the open sea, not somewhere under the shore. How in these conditions was with the vulnerability of the British?

Excluding the ships that covered the landing, Woodward’s surface forces lost two ships to the air attacks. One of them was the Atlantic Conveyor transport, a civilian vessel built without any constructive measures to ensure survivability, without any means of protection from airplanes or rockets and full of combustible cargo.


Reserve "Harriers" on the deck "Atlantic conveyor"


Transport is just not lucky. He was not equipped in a hurry with the passive jamming systems, and the rocket, set aside by a false cloud of targets, from a real warship, deviated precisely to the transport and struck him. This case does not give us anything to assess the survival of warships, since the Atlantic Conveyor was not, although it must be admitted that the British suffered tremendous damage, and for the Argentines it was a major victory, which, however, did not save them.


Burning after hitting the Sheffield rocket. The result of the mistakes of the crew and no more.


And the British lost the warship on the sea ... one - the destroyer Sheffield. Moreover, they lost under still unclear circumstances. Or rather, not fully disclosed. Therefore, we list the facts that we know about this drowning.

1. The radar ship were disabled. According to the official version - in order not to interfere with satellite communications. This version worries us a little, we confine ourselves to the fact that radars were turned off at the ship in the combat zone.

2. KP "Sheffield" received a warning about a rocket attack from the EM "Glasgow" in advance - like all British ships at sea at that moment.

3. Sheffield watch officers did not react to this warning, did not deliver the LOC, they did not even bother the ship commander. At the same time, there was plenty of time for setting a false cloud of goals.

There is the so-called "human factor". It is worth noting that at that time the crews and commanders of the ships were exhausted by false alarms, and many did not believe the Glasgow warning. For example, the shift on duty at KP "Invincible". It was possible that this was also the case at Sheffield. But it was necessary to shoot the false targets ...

Thus, we summarize - the Argentines outside the "bomb lane", where Woodward deliberately framed his fleet "under execution" managed to destroy one combat ship. Because of the erroneous actions of his crew. And one transport on which they really did not aim, the rocket attacked it by chance.

Can this be considered evidence that surface ships are doomed during air raids?

In total, the Argentine "Super-Etandara" made five combat sorties, one of which was in conjunction with the "Skyhawks", fired five Exochet missiles, sank the "Sheffield" and "Atlantic Conveyor", in the last flight the joint group "Super-Etendarov" and The Skyhocks lost two planes (the Skyhawks) were shot down, and the last missile was shot down. For Argentines, these are more than good results. But they talk about the vulnerability of ships quite a bit. None of the ships that managed to expose the LOC was not hit, but as soon as the EX Exter appeared on the arena, the attacking side immediately lost. Sheffield is guaranteed to have survived, if its crew acted as the team of any other British ship acted in that war. “Atlantic Conveyor” would have survived, if the British were to attach the launchers of false targets during the revision.

Note that the Argentines acted in very favorable conditions - the ship’s radar and British air defense system had continuous technical problems, and the political restrictions imposed on the fleet made his maneuvers extremely predictable and the Argentines knew where to look for the British. It is also important that the Britons could not get the Argentine "Neptune", which provided guidance for the aircraft to 15 in May 1982 year. They simply had nothing to do. It is also indicative of how many real-life sorties against ships and ships outside the Falkland Strait were able to make by the Argentines.

All other battles between planes and warships took place in the Falkland Channel - a channel between the islands, from 10 to 23 kilometers wide, surrounded by mountains and rocks.

These were ideal conditions for the attackers - a small space with a large number of targets, the always known position of the enemy ships and the relief, which allows them to secretly reach the target - only a few tens of seconds before the bombs drop.

In contrast to the Argentines, the surface ships of Woodward were actually driven into a trap, they could not leave, there was no place to maneuver, and as luck would have it, there were mass refusals of the air defense system. In the course of the subsequent battles, situations when the sailors, when repelling air raids, ran out onto the deck and fired at small-arms aircraft, were the norm. In this case, the plan of operation itself provided for the following. From the memoirs of John Woodward:

... I invented the simplest possible plan, which, if I didn’t rule out shooting at mine, I would at least guarantee that it would be infrequent. We initially identified a zone that covered the eastern part of the Falklands Strait from the northwest of the island to Cape Fanning and the area around the Carlos Bay. I knew that inside this zone there would be basically all British troops, landing ships, ships, transports and warships. Above it, a "ceiling" was installed at a height of ten thousand feet, which formed a kind of massive air "box" about ten miles wide and two miles high. I ordered our “Harriers” not to go into this “box”. Inside it, our helicopters could deliver anything from the coast to the ships and vice versa, but they must quickly hide whenever an enemy aircraft enters this area.
In the "box" will only fly enemy fighters and bombers, if they want to threaten landing.
I decided that it would be more expedient to give our troops and ships complete freedom to shoot at any aircraft they found inside the "box", since it should only be Argentine. Meanwhile, the Harriers must wait at a higher altitude, knowing that any aircraft departing from the box should only be Argentine, since our planes are not allowed to enter there, and our helicopters are not allowed to fly out of it. The most dangerous in this case was the situation when the Mirage, pursued by the Harrier, enters the “box”.
In this case, the latter could be shot down by one of our frigates. Accident or even poor interaction is possible, but poor planning is unforgivable. Keep in mind that it will take only ninety seconds for the Mirage to cross the box at a speed of four hundred knots until it flies out of it on the other side, having the Harrier swooping down like a falcon on top of it ... I just hoped for it.


Thus, according to the battle plan, the surface ships were supposed to take the first strike of the Argentine aviation, inflict maximum possible losses on the attacking aircraft, break the attack on the landing force and transport for it at any cost, and only then, when the Argentines who had already freed themselves from the bombs “Harriers” would be involved. Aircraft targeting on the enemy should also be provided by ships. Woodward in his memoirs writes straightforward - we waged a war of attrition against Argentine aviation. The ships in the strait were put under execution, with the task of preventing the disruption of the landing force and if they “ran out” faster than the Argentine aircraft, the war would have been lost. A little later, when the British adapted to the situation, the "Harriers" began to intercept Argentine aircraft before they attacked the British ships. But at first it was not like that. 21 May 1982 in the first half of the day, the British put on a “clean” experiment - they took the battle with the aircraft without air support, and having the Harriers work to cut off the leaving Argentines, for all its importance, it had zero impact on the safety of the ships under attack. . Again the word Woodward.

On this day, the first morning flights of the air cover were flown from the Entrim, located in the eastern part of the Falkland Channel, in the center of the amphibious
groups. Most of the cover aircraft returned to the aircraft carrier before the Argentines did something in terms of attacks. For more than two hours after sunrise, the situation remained inexplicably calm. Then it all started.
The Argentinean lightweight double jet attack aircraft of the naval aviation, the McNee 339 (Italian), flew at the highest possible speed above the waves along the northern coast and turned sharply into the narrow entrance of the Falkland Channel. The first ship he saw was the frigate “Argonot” by Keith Leyman, and the pilot fired all his eight five-inch rockets at him, and as he flew closer, he fired at him with an 30-mm gun.
One rocket hit the Sea Cat launcher and injured three people - one of them lost an eye, the other, a weapon master, wounded a fragment in the chest an inch above the heart.
The attack was so sudden and rapid that the raider safely disappeared in the south-east direction before any Argonot firearm was aimed at him. As a result, the aircraft launched the Bloupipe rocket from the Canberra deck, the Intrepid launched the C Cat rocket, and David Pentrite's Plymouth opened fire with an 4,5-inch artillery unit. But the “McCups” managed to leave in order to, no doubt, hit their high command with a story about what they saw in the Carlos Bay area.
...
Captain 2 rank captain's CCU worked quickly. His two young gun control officers, lieutenants Mike Nols and Tom Williams, had to get used to the constant switch from attack to defense, being in a very vulnerable position, far to the south of other ships. The commander of the ship, formerly a senior officer of the frigate's command and control department, was personally involved in their preparation. Now they opened fire on the enemy from an 4,5-inch artillery mount and fired the Sea Cat missile, which made the Argentine pilots leave without causing us any harm.
The first significant attack of this day began about half an hour after that - on 12.35. Three supersonic "Dagger" Israeli production from behind Mount Rosalia went to West Falkland. They descended above the water to a height of only fifty feet and swept across the Falkland Straits between Cape Fanning and Chencho, no doubt intending to attack the landing craft behind them.

This time we were ready. Argonot and Intrepid fired their Sea Cat missiles when the attacking Argentines were two miles from Carlos Bay. Plymouth opened the scoring first, knocking the right-hand distant aircraft from this group with a Si Cat missile. The pilot had no chance of escape. The second Dagger turned away from the missiles to the right and was now flying through the gap in the defense. The next ship he saw was Bill Canning's Broadsworth. The bomber rushed at him, firing a frigate of 30-mm guns. Twenty-nine shells hit the ship. Fourteen people were injured in the hangar area, and two Linke helicopters were damaged, but, fortunately, both bombs dropped by them did not hit the ship.
The third Dagger turned to the south and headed straight for the Entrym by Brian Yang. The ship was less than a mile from the rocky coast of Kota Island and three and a half miles south of Cape Chencho. The Argentine bomb, as it turned out later, a thousand-pound, hit the Entrim flight deck, flew through a hatch into the aft part of the rocket cellar "Si S lag", hit the tangent two large missiles, and finished its rather long way in the walk-in closet, known for its military -sea jargon as "latrine". It was a miracle that neither the bomb nor the missiles exploded. An explosion in a rocket cellar would almost certainly lead to the death of a ship. Yet several fires broke out, and the Entrim team found itself in a difficult position, trying to cope with them. Commander Yang gave a full course to the north in order to get closer to the Broadsworth to cover up and get help. But he did not have time to go there - after six minutes the next Argentine strike struck him.
This was another wave of the three Daggers, flying almost the same as the first wave, heading over West Falkland.
They went straight to the damaged Entrym, which they tried to throw over the Sea Slug missile in case the fire approached them. In desperation, Entrim fired the Sea Slug rocket, completely uncontrollable, in the direction of the attacking Daggers, hoping to somehow influence them. Their "Sea Cat" system was disabled, but 4,5-inch gun mounts and all machine guns fired at the attacking aircraft.
One plane broke through and fired a burning destroyer from its guns, wounding seven people and causing an even greater fire. The situation on the Entrime has become threatening. The second Dagger chose Fort Austin, a large supply vessel, which was very bad for us. newssince Fort Austin was completely defenseless against such an attack. Commander Dunlop ordered to open fire from two of his guns, twenty-four more people from the upper deck of the vessel spewed heavy fire from rifles and machine guns. But this was not enough, and Sam must have already prepared himself for the bombing, when, to his amazement, Dagger exploded a thousand yards from him, hit by "Sea Wolfe" from Broadsworth. The last plane again shot at Broadsworth, but the thousand-pound bomb dropped by him did not hit the ship.


The first time the “Harriers” worked to break the attack only after 14.00. Prior to that, the ships had to fight alone, and then mostly the Argentine planes made their way to the ships with bombs and the ships mostly had to repel their attacks themselves.

September 21 was one of the hardest days for the British. Of the seven warships that joined the battle - the frigate Ardent was destroyed by the Argentines, the Entrym was seriously damaged and could not shoot, but remained afloat and kept the course, the Argonot was seriously damaged and lost its course, but could weapons, two more ships had serious damage reducing their combat capability.

And this despite the fact that the Argentines made fifty sorties against British forces. In a narrow strait, where everything is in full view and there is no room for maneuver.

At the same time, it should be understood that the only surface ship lost on that day, the Ardent, was lost due to the inoperative air defense system. The first blow, which did not destroy the ship, but cost him its combat capability, was missed precisely because of this, if the ship’s air defense missile system was intact, the Ardent would probably not have been lost.

In further battles, the role of the Harriers continued to grow, and it was they who ensured the majority of the losses of the attacking aircraft. If we single out from the general list of downed Argentine attack aircraft and fighters only those who died at the time of the British repelling attacks on their ships, then it turns out that the "Harriers" shot down a little more than half of all these aircraft, and the ships - a little more than a third. The role of the Harriers in the depletion of the Argentine forces was thus extremely important, but it must be understood that they overtook most of their victims after they dropped bombs on British ships. Yes, and directed them to target from the ships.

Woodward’s book is full of emotions and doubts that the British will manage to hold out, but the fact remains that they didn’t just hold out, they won, and they won in a theoretically hopeless situation — a large lake of water size, numerical superiority of the enemy in aviation and non-working air defense systems . And as a result - from the 23 URO ships in general, who participated in the war from the British side, was lost ... 4. Less than 20%. Somehow it does not fit with the crushing role of aviation. The performance of the "Harriers" in this case should not deceive anyone.


The frigate "Antiloup" is sinking. Pay attention to how close the mountains are. But the British had no choice, they had to fight here.


Could the British only defeat URO ships, without the support of the Harriers? With the existing plan of operation, they could not. Although the ships successfully repulsed the attacks, the losses they inflicted were not sufficient for the Argentines to dry up so quickly. They would continue to attack and not the fact that the British would not have ended the ships before. But this provided that the plan of operation would be the same, and that the landing zones would be there, and that the landing pattern, under which it continued not only at night, but also during the day, would not have changed ...

Generally speaking, such a plan, which would allow an amphibious assault operation without using “Harriers” to protect URO ships, was quite possible, simply not needed.

And, of course, fantasizing about how things would have gone if the Argentines had bombs working normally would have been dofantazirovat and for the other side, and assume that the British air defense system and radar. So honest.

What did the Falklands war show? She showed that surface forces can fight against aviation and win. And also that it is very difficult to sink a ship that is on the high seas on the move and ready to repel an attack. The Argentines failed. Never.

Persian Gulf


Enthusiasts of rocket strikes from the air like to recall the American defeat of the Stark frigate by an Iraqi rocket launched from an Iraqi aircraft allegedly converted into a rocket-carrying carrier of a business jet Falcon 50.

But we must understand one simple thing - the operational connection of the US Navy, which included the frigate, did not conduct military operations against Iraq or Iran. For this reason, the frigate did not open fire on an Iraqi aircraft when the latter was discovered.

Starck spotted an Iraqi aircraft at 20.55. In a real combat situation at that moment the ship would have opened fire on the plane, and most likely the incident would have been settled on this - at the cost of either escaping or shooting down the plane. But Stark was not at war.

But next year, another American ship turned up in the war - the Wainwright missile cruiser, the same one on which Vice-Admiral Mastin worked on the use of Tomahawks anti-ship. The operation "Mantis" conducted by the US Navy against Iran in 1988 was mentioned in the article "The harmful myth of the mosquito fleet". We are specifically interested in the next moment.

In the morning of 18 on April 1988, the Americans, following orders to destroy Iranian platforms in the Persian Gulf, which were used by Iranians in raids on tankers, carried out the successive destruction of two platforms. In the morning, two Iranian Phantoms attempted to approach the American destroyer McCromic. However, this time the Americans had orders to shoot. The destroyer took the fighters to escort the air defense system and they turned away. The Americans did not let the missiles go.

A few hours later, another American ship group consisting of the Wainwright cruiser, the Badley and Simpson frigates encountered the corvette Joshan. The latter launched the cruiser the launch of the RCC "Harpoon", which the Americans successfully removed by interference and in response to this attack was sunk by rocket attacks from the cruiser and the Simpson. And here the ship group was attacked from the air by a pair of Iranian Phantoms. It should be understood that the Iranians had a successful experience of attacks of surface targets, and the Maverick guided missiles. It is not known exactly what the planes were really armed with, but they had the opportunity to inflict serious damage on ships.

But the American ships were not the same as the English ones. The cruiser took airplanes to escort, one of the pilots had the sense to turn away, the second continued to fly to the target and received two anti-aircraft missiles. The pilot was lucky, his heavily damaged aircraft could reach the Iranian territory.


US Navy missile cruiser "Wainwright".


What does such an example show? First of all, what should not be done is far-reaching conclusions from the situation with Starck. In a real combat situation, aircraft attempts to get close to the ships look like this.

Secondly, the outcome of the collision of Iranian fighters with the ships of the US Navy is an excellent illustration of what awaits both an armed aerial reconnaissance and airborne units of attack aircraft during attempts to attack surface ships.

It is also worth noting that the Americans were not at all afraid of the massive air raid from Iranian territory. And not only because of the aircraft carrier, but also because of the shipbuilding systems of the eighties that were very advanced for the late eighties.

Today, the air defense system is much more dangerous.

TFR "Watchdog". Forgotten Soviet example


There is one now slightly forgotten, but an incredibly instructive example of a real attack by Soviet bombers of a warship. This example is specific, because this ship was also a Soviet one. We are talking about the TFR "watchdog" project 1135, on which 8 November 1975, there was a rebellion.


TFR "Watchdog"


The story of the communist insurrection at the Watchdog, which was raised by the commander of the ship's captain of the 3 rank Valery Sablin, was heard, most likely, by everyone. Less is known about the details of the bomb strike, which stopped the departure of the ship from the Soviet territorial waters and made it possible for the captain of the ship to regain control of it. On the night of November 9, Sablin, who took control of the ship, took him to the exit from the Gulf of Riga. To stop the ship, it was decided to launch a bomb strike on it, for which one of the most combat-ready bomber units in the USSR Air Force - the 668-th Bomber Aviation Regiment, armed with Yak-28 aircraft - was raised in alarm.


Yak-28


Further events perfectly show how difficult it is to attack a surface ship. Even when he does not resist. Even when it happens in its territorial waters.

Of articles by Major General A.G. Tsymbalova:

The commander of the second (non-standard reconnaissance) squadron flew for weather reconnaissance and supplementary exploration ...
According to the decision of the commander, the reconnaissance of the target took off on a Yak-28L aircraft, the sighting and navigation system of which made it possible to determine its coordinates when a target was detected with an accuracy of several hundred meters. But it is - when detected. The crew of the reconnaissance aircraft, having arrived at the estimated point of the ship’s location, did not find it there and proceeded with a visual search for the ship in the direction of its probable movement.

The meteorological conditions of the autumn Baltic, of course, were not suitable for conducting aerial visual reconnaissance: morning twilight, broken 5-6 cloud scores with the lower edge at 600-700 m and thick haze with horizontal visibility no more than 3-4 km. Finding a ship visually in such conditions, identifying it by its silhouette and tail number was unlikely. He who flew over the autumn sea knows that the horizon line is absent, the gray sky in the mist merges with the water of lead color, the flight at 500 m altitude with poor visibility is possible only by means of instruments. And the crew of the reconnaissance aircraft did not fulfill the main task - the ship did not find bombers with the task of warning bombing along the ship’s course following at 5- and 6-minute intervals, didn’t bring it.

ERROR

So, the crews of the first two bombers went into the area of ​​the ship’s intended location and, without receiving information from the reconnaissance aircraft, were forced to search for the target independently using the RBP in a survey mode. By the decision of the regiment commander, the crew of the deputy flight training commander began searching for the ship, starting with the area of ​​its intended location, and the crew of the chief of the fire and tactical training of the regiment (navigator - secretary of the party committee of the regiment) from the Baltic Sea Gotland. At the same time, the distance to the island was determined using the RBP, so that the state border of Sweden was not violated.

The crew performing the search in the estimated area of ​​the ship’s location almost immediately discovered a large surface target within the search area, reached it at a given height in 500 m, identified it visually in the haze as a destroyer of a destroyer and bombed ahead of the ship’s course, seeking to put a series of bombs closer to the ship. If the bombing were carried out at the test site, it would have been rated excellently - the points of the fall of the bombs would not exceed the mark of a circle with a radius of 80 m. But the series of bombs did not lie down the line through the ship’s hull. In contact with rods, assault bombs exploded on the water almost over its surface, and a sheaf of fragments ricocheted (water is incompressible) directly into the side of the ship, which turned out to be Soviet dry cargothat left just a few hours ago from the port of Ventspils.
...
ORDER: PUT A STRIKE

The crew of the chief of the fire and tactical training of the regiment, searching for a ship from the island of Gotland, consistently found several groups of surface targets. But, remembering the failure of his comrade, he went down to the height of 200 m and examined them visually. Fortunately, the weather has improved somewhat: the haze has slightly cleared and visibility has become 5-6 km. In the overwhelming majority, these were the vessels of fishermen who went fishing after the holidays at sea. Time passed, but the ship could not be found, and the regimental commander, with the consent of the acting. the commander of the air army decided to increase the efforts of the crews of the regiment control in the air by the two crews of the first squadron, which started the engines and began taxiing to the launch site.

And at this time in the situation, something radically changed. I think that the ship controlled by Sablina approached the border of the territorial waters of the Soviet Union, which the prosecution ships reported to the command. Why these ships and the headquarters of the Baltic Fleet did not carry out target designation for Air Force planes during the first sorties, so far I can only build guesses. Apparently, until this time, 668-th bap was not considered as the main force capable of stopping the rebellious ship. And when the ship approached neutral waters and the final decision was made to destroy it by any combat-ready forces, the regiment was in the center of the events.
Whatever it was, the. the commander of the air army suddenly ordered to raise the entire regiment in the shortest possible time to strike the ship (we still did not know the exact location of the ship).

Here it is necessary to make one explanation. At that time, the Air Force adopted three regiment departure missions for combat alert: to perform combat missions within the tactical range of the aircraft (in accordance with the planned flight table, which was what happened that day); with relocation to operational airfields (GSVG) and exit from the enemy's sudden strike at the airfield (take-off without ammunition suspension, by frame, from different directions to duty zones in the air, followed by landing on your airfield). On leaving the first strike, the squadron, whose parking was closest to any one of the runway ends, took off, in the 668-th bap it was the third squadron. Behind her, the first squadron should fly up from the opposite direction (just from the direction from which flights were flown on that ill-fated morning) and, secondly, the second squadron of jammers (the non-standard reconnaissance squadron) was to fly up.
The commander of the third squadron, having received an order to carry out a takeoff by a squadron according to the option of getting out of attack, quickly drove out to the runway, lined up another 9 aircraft in front of the runway, and immediately began taking off at the occupied strip by two aircraft of the first squadron. The collision and aircraft crash directly on the runway did not happen only because the commander of the first squadron and his slave managed to stop the run-up in the initial stage and free the lane.

The head of the flights at the command and control center (KDP), having first understood all the absurdity and danger of the situation, forbade anyone to take off without his permission than to incur a storm of negative emotions on the part of the regiment commander. To the credit of the old and experienced lieutenant colonel (who was not afraid of anyone or anything in life), who showed firmness, the regiment took off to perform a combat mission acquired a manageable character. But it was already impossible to build a pre-designed battle order of the regiment in the air, and the planes went to the strike area mixed up in two echelons with a minute interval at each. In fact, it was already a flock, not controlled by squadron commanders in the air, and an ideal target for two shipboard missile systems with an 40-second shooting cycle. With a high degree of probability, it can be argued that if the ship actually reflected this air strike, then all the 18 planes of this “battle order” would have been shot down.

ATTACK

And the plane searching for a ship from the island of Gotland finally found a group of ships, two of which looked bigger on the screen of the RBP, while the others lined up like a front. Violating all prohibitions not to fall below 500 m, the crew passed between two warships at a height of 50 m, which he defined as large anti-submarine ships (BOD). Between the ships was 5-6 km, on board one of them was clearly visible on-board number. A report on the azimuth and distance of the ship from the Tukums airfield, as well as a confirmation of its attack, immediately went to the regiment's command post. Having received permission to attack, the crew executed the maneuver and attacked the ship from a height of 200 m from the front from the side at an angle of 20-25 degrees from its axis. Sablin, driving the ship, competently tore off the attack, vigorously maneuvering in the direction of the attacking aircraft to a course angle equal to 0 degrees.
The bomber was forced to stop the attack (it was unlikely to hit the narrow target when bombing from the horizon) and with a descent to 50 m (the crew remembered all the two OCA air defense missile systems) slipped right above the ship.
With a small set to a height of 200, he carried out a maneuver called the "standard 270 degrees turn" in tactics of the Air Force, and attacked the ship again from the side behind. Quite reasonably assuming that the ship would emerge from under attack by maneuvering in the opposite direction from the attacking plane, the crew attacked at such an angle that the ship did not have time to turn around to the course angle of the plane equal to 180 degrees before the bombs dropped.

It happened exactly as the crew intended. Sablin, of course, sought not to substitute the board of the ship, fearing top-mast bombing (but he did not know that the bomber did not have those bombs that are needed for this method of bombing). The first bomb of the series hit right in the middle of the deck on the hulk of the ship, destroyed the deck covering during the explosion and jammed the ship’s steering wheel in the position it was in. Other bombs of the series lay with a flight at a slight angle from the axis of the ship and did not cause any damage to the ship. The ship began to describe a wide circulation and stalled course.

The crew, having executed the attack, began to sharply gain altitude, keeping the ship in sight and trying to determine the result of the strike, as he saw a series of signal rockets fired from the side of the attacked ship. The report on the regiment's command post sounded extremely briefly: it lets the missiles go. In the air and on the crew of the regiment, there was instant silence, because everyone was waiting for the Zur launches and did not forget about it for a minute. Who got them? After all, the column of our single aircraft was already approaching the point where the ship was located. These moments of absolute silence personally seemed to me a long hour. After some time, a clarification followed: the signal flares, and the air literally exploded with the diverse voices of crews trying to clarify their combat mission. And at this moment again the emotional cry of the commander of the crew above the ship: but not because it worked!

What can you do in war as in war. This is the first crew of the regiment's column jumped out onto one of the pursuit ships and immediately attacked, taking it as a rebellious ship. The attacked ship from falling bombs dodged, but responded with fire from all of its anti-aircraft automatic weapons. He shot a ship a lot, but by, and this is understandable. The border guards are unlikely to ever have shot at a “living”, skillfully maneuvering aircraft.
It attacked only the first bomber from 18 in the column of the regiment, and who will attack the rest? Nobody doubted the determination of the pilots by this point in time: the rebels and the pursuers. Apparently, the naval command in time asked itself this question, and found the right answer to it, realizing that it was time to stop this orgy of strikes, in fact, by them, and "organized."


Once again - the ship did not resist and was in the territorial waters of the USSR. Its coordinates, course and speed were transferred to the strike aircraft without delay. At the same time, the mere fact of an emergency departure of a regiment to strike in a real combat situation and several mistakes in organizing the departure almost ended in disasters both at takeoff and over the sea. Miraculously, "their" ships were not sunk. Miraculously, the frontier guards were not shot down by any aircraft. This, by the way, is the usual military chaos, the inevitable companion of suddenly beginning hostilities. Then everyone gets a “hand crammed” and he disappears, the regiments and divisions start working with the accuracy of a well-established mechanism.

If the enemy will give time.

It is necessary to understand - in a real combat situation if necessary to provide a strike on real enemy ships, it would be the same thing - and a crash during takeoff, and a consistent exit on the target with separate units and squadrons, with the shooting of attacking aircraft with shipborne air defense missile systems, and the loss of a target, and strikes against my own Only the losses from the ship-based air defense missile systems would be real - the enemy would definitely not regret anyone. At the same time, the hypothetical presence of the anti-ship missiles on their own aircraft would not have done anything - the aviation anti-ship anti-ship missiles capture the target on the carrier in order to launch it, the carrier must find the attacked object and correctly identify it. And this in the described military episode failed, and for objective reasons.

So blows on surface ships look inside the "real world".

Conclusion


Russia, in part of its sea power, is entering a very dangerous situation. On the one hand, the Syrian operation, the confrontation with the United States in Venezuela, and the intensification of Russian foreign policy as a whole, shows that Russia has a rather aggressive foreign policy. At the same time, the navy is an extremely important, and often indispensable, tool. So, without intensive military work of the Navy in 2012-2015, there would be no operation in Syria.

But in leading such actions, the Russian leadership has allowed a critical on the scale disorganization of naval construction, from shipbuilding to the collapse of adequate organizational and staff structures. In such circumstances, the rapid development of the Navy is impossible, and demand from the Russian fleet will soon begin as with the present. So, there are no guarantees that the Navy will not have to conduct full-scale military operations outside the zone of operations of coastal fighter aircraft. And since the Navy has one aircraft carrier, and with unclear prospects, it is necessary to prepare to fight with what we have.

And there are "mixed" ships with guided missile weapons.
Examples from the military practice of the Second World War (including domestic experience) and the wars and military operations of the second half of the last century tell us that in some cases, the base aviation is powerless against surface ships. But in order for enemy aircraft to be incapable of harming our ships over and over again, the latter must act flawlessly, maneuvering so that at times faster, but strongly limited in fuel, aircraft missed the ship's team over and over again, giving it a head start over time and opportunity to hit the airfields and other objects with their cruise missiles.

We need intelligence that can warn ships in advance about the rise of enemy aircraft, we need super-power systems of ship-based air defense capable of enabling ships to repel at least one massive air attack, need DRLO helicopters that could be based on frigates and cruisers, real training is needed, without “show off” to this kind of action. Finally, we need a psychological readiness to go for such risky operations, and we need the ability to cut off unnecessarily risky and hopeless options from simply moderately risky ones. We must learn to deceive the enemy, who has perfect systems of intelligence and communication, and who dominates the sea. Not having an aircraft carrier fleet, not being able to create it quickly, not having bases all over the world, from where basic aircraft could cover the ships, we will have to learn to do without all these (important and necessary, in general) things.

And sometimes it will be quite possible, although it is always very difficult.
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  1. -2
    18 July 2019 18: 43
    Timokhin, as always, exaggerates, and is trying to lead us to false conclusions. Objectively, two old aircraft did not sink the latest warship during the Fonkland season. The Americans likewise lost their vaunted ship from the impact of a converted airplane ....... the Baltics, in combat conditions the ships would not be mixed up and drowned, not with missile bombs ... what kind of warships can survive only by pretending to be merchants or in fog. .... the fog does not last forever and merchants may not be ..... so tanks can also be hidden in the bushes and shout about their high performance characteristics, and who will fight? and what kind of super-boulevard-battleship-frigate destroyers are such that they can only hide and not always, but only in fog? And most importantly, where does Russia have Folelands or Iran? Why do we have to go there? Or did Timokhin finally become a supporter of the mosquito fleet, because the mosquito fleet is easier to hide in the fog or pass off as merchants and fishermen? ..... well, I personally do not need a supporter for submarines and they don’t have to pretend to be merchants, rather they pretend to be a whale.
    1. val
      0
      19 July 2019 06: 17
      You ask why the mosquito fleet?
      Goltz answered. Debt defense industry.
      https://echo.msk.ru/blog/openmedia/2466135-echo/
    2. +1
      19 July 2019 06: 18
      Totally agree with you. The author adjusts the facts to the picture he needs, and he simply ignores the facts that do not fit into this picture. This is especially noticeable in the description of the Falkland War. The author does not write a word about the unexploded Argentinean bombs and missiles that hit warships and about what British losses would be in this case. He does not give a single comment about the fact that the attacks on British ships were mainly carried out by free-falling bombs, as in the Second World War, and despite this the English fleet could not resist such attacks. The author does not indicate that the Exoset anti-ship missile was a subsonic missile and far from the most advanced anti-ship missile, and nevertheless showed tremendous effectiveness not even against individual fleet ships, but against their formations. What would happen to the English fleet with the massive use of supersonic anti-ship missiles is understandable. In general, the author is clearly trying to pull the owl on the globe.
      Quote: vladimir1155
      Timokhin, as always, exaggerates, and is trying to lead us to false conclusions. Objectively, two old aircraft did not sink the latest warship during the Fonkland season. The Americans likewise lost their vaunted ship from the impact of a converted airplane ....... the Baltics, in combat conditions the ships would not be mixed up and drowned, not with missile bombs ... what kind of warships can survive only by pretending to be merchants or in fog. .... the fog does not last forever and merchants may not be ..... so tanks can also be hidden in the bushes and shout about their high performance characteristics, and who will fight? and what kind of super-boulevard-battleship-frigate destroyers are such that they can only hide and not always, but only in fog? And most importantly, where does Russia have Folelands or Iran? Why do we have to go there? Or did Timokhin finally become a supporter of the mosquito fleet, because the mosquito fleet is easier to hide in the fog or pass off as merchants and fishermen? ..... well, I personally do not need a supporter for submarines and they don’t have to pretend to be merchants, rather they pretend to be a whale.
      1. +3
        19 July 2019 10: 38
        .
        .
        :-) :-) :-) We are looking forward to your article, so to speak "Review of review"
        State your view of this war. Do not jerk, any sane information is welcome.
        1. 0
          11 August 2019 06: 06
          More than enough has been written about the Falkland War, so I see no reason to reinvent the wheel, it’s enough to re-read what has already been written to understand that the author is trying to pull an owl on the globe in an attempt to substantiate his thesis that ships can successfully withstand air strikes .
          Quote: VVAU
          .
          .
          :-) :-) :-) We are looking forward to your article, so to speak "Review of review"
          State your view of this war. Do not jerk, any sane information is welcome.
    3. 0
      19 July 2019 10: 53
      The author is modestly silent about the fact that the bombs of the Argentines did not explode, otherwise the attackers would have been very bad
      1. 0
        19 July 2019 12: 01
        It seems there is something with the "Exosets". Maybe not all were guided .... it was long ago.
      2. +2
        22 July 2019 00: 27
        Offline
        The author is modestly silent about the fact that Argentinean bombs did not explode

        In the sense of silence? Have you ever read one article?
        Argentines did not explode bombs British did not have air defense systems. 1: 1 as it were.
  2. +1
    18 July 2019 18: 51
    American AUGs need to start tracking from moorings off their shores, it is unrealistic to hide them there, and then do not let go, though the resources for this need to be decently
    1. +2
      18 July 2019 21: 03
      Yes, and did so, the more they did not create a secret from this. This is a family. Holiday, music.
      I have a story about how a hydrographer was recruited to spy in Japan. Fotat the aircraft carrier. :-) "Mata Hari and Gregory"

      http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/grigorii.shtml
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. -2
    18 July 2019 19: 16
    "masquerading as trade traffic is triggered against satellites and ZGRLS - ships are scattered among merchant ships, their formation does not bear signs of a battle formation, as a result the enemy simply sees a breakthrough of the same type of signals on the route of intensive commercial shipping, and there is no way to classify them"

    But what about the famous battle warrant AUG and the notorious loitering over the warrant of the "New Year tree" in the person of Hawkeye? laughing

    The dispersal of warships along the route of merchant ships is a peacetime kindergarten; in wartime, there are no routes of merchant ships outside the guarded caravans. And in the event of a preemptive nuclear strike, the AUG is not required to be masked at all, since the carrier-based aircraft will take off no earlier than the ICBM / SLBM launch and will fly at least an hour before the missile launch or bomb release line. The takeoff of aircraft from aircraft carriers will be immediately detected by all types of RTR with an unambiguous determination of the coordinates of the AUG. The flight time of the anti-ship missiles will be from 1 hour ("Caliber") to 6 minutes ("Zircon"), during which time the AUG will leave the take-off area of ​​carrier-based aircraft by 50/5 km - just to the detection range with the help of the RGSN anti-ship missiles.

    So the Falklands and TFCs are not at all concerned with the word at all.
    1. +10
      18 July 2019 20: 06
      AMG observed dozens of options for building an order, saw even more pictures.
      This is for the commander’s decision, and he will think up the most predictable option in the war.
      For citizens, this is in preparation for the first strike.
      Therefore, our people were afraid of losing the group even for a day.
      Take-off will not be detected at the start of the database. What Flitex showed.
      Who will give TSU to Zircon?
      I already wrote to you, AMG does not swim as in the picture, all together.
      Distances between ships reach tens of kilometers.
      You would fly to reconnaissance on the Tu-16 with a locator with a range of 100 km, look at the number of marks from traders and fishermen. And reveal the goal. Decrease 20 times, get out of the clouds, classify. The ocean is huge, intelligence has been scratching the ocean for days and could not be found, even in the Baltic.
      1. +1
        18 July 2019 20: 11
        Quote: VVAU
        Takeoff will not be noticed at the beginning of the database

        During the take-off / landing of carrier-based aviation, the aircraft carrier’s radio is required to operate - a near-drive system, etc. And their specific radiation is detected by means of RTR placed on satellites and airplanes at a distance of + 1000 km.

        Plus, the first aircraft that rises from the deck into the air before the takeoff of attack aircraft is the Hawkeye, the characteristic radiation of the "chandelier" of which is detected by satellites and RTR aircraft several thousand kilometers away.
        1. val
          +6
          18 July 2019 20: 25
          Usually, "Takan" was identified. This is the type of our RSBN-2.
          Drive on take-off is not needed.
          And boarding work in the sector. In general, there is a lighting system landing.
          And no one forbids using a remote drive. For example, from a support vessel.
          The first is not Hawkeye. The first rescue helicopter. :-)
          Instead of Hokai, the RLD ship completely passes.
          The options and sequence of take-off is different.
          This is well known to our RZK, they are sticking with an aircraft carrier like a fish.
          1. -2
            18 July 2019 20: 34
            The drive system during takeoff includes the ability to return to the deck of defective aircraft.
            Lighting landing system only complements radio.
            Does the supply vessel outside the AUG warrant feed?
            The RLD ship is detected by RTR in the same way as the Hawkeye.
            1. val
              +3
              18 July 2019 21: 12
              I do not argue. But with obd, there is the concept of radio masking.
              Drive VHF. Line of sight :-)
              Everyone was waiting for what you remember.
              Rld yes please :-) the target is not he, but the aircraft carrier.
              No, inside the warrant it can shine like an aircraft carrier, all the missiles to him :-)
          2. +2
            18 July 2019 20: 47
            It seems to be called "Shoran systems", this is their RSBN. There is also Omega. Like our ADNS "Silicon".
            The card for it is special with azimuthal-long-distance meshes.
            Although they do not need a drive. Even our ancient Puma Su-24 has a Home button. Inertial, itself will lead the plane to the AC.
    2. val
      +3
      18 July 2019 20: 27
      Sorry, but you have mixed "sneaking" and systematic fighting. Find faction formations during the Vietnam War.
    3. +2
      20 July 2019 10: 50
      There are neutrals. In WWII they tried not to touch them. There is something to eat and drink :-)
      If a mass take-off from an aircraft carrier was slammed, there isn’t much point in destroying it. Yes, it would not hurt, but the task is to drown before take-off, or to create an unacceptable roll. Do not take into account the passage of the signal, the preparation of weapons, obtaining tsu. They will make a couple of hours.
  5. +2
    18 July 2019 19: 19
    Comrade Timokhin continues to live in his parallel universe, where AUGs can easily hide from AWACS with a radius of effective detection beyond 400 km, and large surface ships can escape by maneuver from a salvo of modern anti-ship missiles, and Russia has real chances to start building an ocean fleet.
    This is not perseverance, but some kind of fanaticism ...
    1. +6
      18 July 2019 20: 08
      Why should AMG hide from an AWACS aircraft? :-)
      From your Hokai or what?
      1. -4
        18 July 2019 20: 22
        Why should AMG hide from an AWACS aircraft? :-)
        So that a random UFO with a megaton charge does not fall on the deck.
        From your Hokai or what?
        AWACS aircraft have long been not a luxury but a vehicle are in service with all at least somewhat combat-ready armies.
        1. +5
          18 July 2019 20: 49
          Does the Russian fleet have AWACS?
          The question is rhetorical)))
          1. +1
            18 July 2019 21: 01
            Probably only the Russian Navy will fundamentally fight with the ships of the adversary, the Mariners will arrange an honest duel, like Peresvet and Chelubey, and the rest will watch from the side, right? Or do you doubt the suitability of the IL76 for flying over water?
            1. val
              +5
              18 July 2019 21: 24
              Even under the USSR they did not know how to fight them.
              Read Sokerin "PR as an end in itself"
              https://topwar.ru/10040-piar-kak-samocel.html
              1. +1
                18 July 2019 21: 57
                The article is very famous and no less controversial, albeit with a very authoritative authorship.
                The USSR knew very well what to do with the ACG and made the right bet on the development of anti-ship missiles, large and small, fast and slow, good and different.
                1. val
                  +2
                  21 July 2019 22: 12
                  .
                  :-) To find an author of this level here is a problem.
                  Maya then sho maya.
                  He also left the forum "There is naval aviation." Well at least I wrote it
                  And many different missiles are not good.
                  And among the Chelomeevsky guys, the improvement of a rocket often came down to an increase in its size. It got to the point that they ceased to fit inside the ship.
                2. 0
                  27 July 2019 17: 07
                  Quote: Corn
                  The USSR knew very well what to do with the AUG and made the right bet on the development of anti-ship missiles, large and small, fast and low-speed, good and different

                  only you confuse cause and effect. The Soviet Navy did not want that at all, and they were only offered these same anti-ship missiles, without giving him a choice ... so this is not a bet, but hopelessness.
            2. 0
              21 July 2019 16: 25
              ... the sailors will have an honest fight, like Peresvet and Chelubey, and the rest will watch from the side, right?


              In times of dueling in France, a skinny and a fat one somehow met in a duel. The seconds of the skinny turned out to be fundamental, go to the seconds of the fat and say:

              “You also see that our duelist is four times thinner than yours.” This is unfairly obtained. We suggest drawing the outline of our figure on the figure of your duelist and all injections with a sword past this outline - do not count!

              The fat duelist laughed and refused the duel and the case ended in peace.

              When there is a real war, this is far from chess, and while thinking about the next move of the enemy, you can easily get it on the faces of a chessboard.
    2. -1
      18 July 2019 21: 30
      Precisely noticed!
  6. val
    +5
    18 July 2019 19: 32
    .... when his deck was full of ready-to-fly aircraft. With bombs, with fuel ... 

    Alexander, when there is a massive rise, the deck is almost clean. Picked up the elevator, immediately departure. Weapons cling to the bottom.
    1. +5
      18 July 2019 20: 05
      Quote: val
      Alexander, when there is a massive rise, the deck is almost clean. Picked up the elevator, immediately departure. Weapons cling to the bottom.

      Only in emergency cases - for refueling and suspension / removal of weapons in the hangar is an emergency mode and is carried out in addition to the main work on the flight deck only by order of the commander of the AB.
      The manuals directly define that loading / unloading of ammunition on aircraft must be performed on the flight deck, and in the aft (from the "island") part. If necessary, it is allowed to perform these procedures in the bow, but only by order of the ship commander; while the amount of ammunition in the bow should be minimal.
      Also, by order of the commander, he can authorize loading / unloading of ammunition in the hangar - but not of the entire nomenclature, only in a limited volume and only for aircraft intended for the next departure or for raising according to combat alert.
      Weapons Loading and Downloading
      The flight deck of an aircraft carrier is the preferred area to load or download an aircraft. Normally, the rearming area is adjacent to and aft of the island structure on the flight deck. When operationally necessary, however, the ship's commanding officer (CO) may authorize loading or downloading on the ship's bow while cyclic flight operations are in progress. Only a minimum quantity of weapons should be moved toward the ship's bow.
      The CO may authorize loading limited amounts of weapons on the hangar deck when operationally necessary. However, this adds an additional risk of fire because there is both fuel and explosives in a confined area. Only aircraft scheduled for the next launch or an alert condition are authorized for loading on the hangar deck.
      1. +1
        18 July 2019 20: 51
        On deck equip fuses. Suspension for emergency lifting below. Refueling from above. Otherwise, the elevator will be covered.
    2. val
      +1
      22 July 2019 10: 59
      ................
  7. +2
    18 July 2019 19: 46
    For the author 82 years - the present ....
    ZGRLS quite accurately determine the ship by signature, as if not more accurately than over-the-horizon radars.
    The detection radius of a large surface ship by modern AWACS aircraft is limited by the radio horizon (approximately 450 km).
    All merchant ships have transponders and modern information processing tools allow you to track their course for a long time. A container ship that suddenly appeared in the middle of the ocean (and an aircraft carrier disappeared nearby) is an occasion for comrades at the radio intelligence headquarters to think.
    1. +8
      18 July 2019 20: 12
      Kamchatka fishermen put a bucket on the antenna and quickly hand over the crab to the Japanese.
      Any system can be circumvented
      ZGRLS will give a mark, but it will not be signed above that it is an aircraft carrier. :-)
      1. -2
        18 July 2019 20: 41
        ZGRLS on 6000 km will give not one mark, but the n-th number of marks on the number of AUG ships built into one of the AUG orders.

        At a distance of 3000 km, the OHRLS will additionally detect several dozen marks from the take-off of carrier-based aircraft with characteristic time intervals between the addition of these marks.
        1. +2
          18 July 2019 20: 57
          I do not argue. If you know a specific construction option and do not take into account other surface targets. Including false inflatable, which within 30 minutes in an amount of up to 20 pieces can put up AMG ships.
          You too believe in the power of ZGRLS. Go out into the street, close your eyes and in a crowd of hundreds of people try to identify your acquaintance by voices. Moreover, they say all at the same time.
          1. -4
            18 July 2019 21: 10
            At a distance from 6000 to 3000 km, SGRLS sees objects with a length of at least 100 meters — a very large inflatable target will have to be inflated.

            At a distance from 3000 to 1000 km, SGRLS sees objects with a length of at least 5 meters, but what does this change if, before the 3000 km boundary, a group of targets was uniquely identified as AUG, and then 20 new objects were added to it at one time?

            False inflatable targets - the problem of the WGES RCC, and not the SRGRS.

            PS From 6000/3000 km it is necessary to subtract 1000 km - the dead zone of the ZGRLS, to which this type of radar station is referred to inland for the impossibility of disabling a missile strike "in the short term."
            1. val
              +3
              18 July 2019 21: 34
              Have you heard about corner reflectors?
              About the active response to the radar signal?
            2. +1
              19 July 2019 00: 45
              for radar, the size does not matter, the value has the EPR of the target, and it is far from directly related to the size.
              something like this
              1. +2
                19 July 2019 01: 54
                :-)
                :-) had some fun. I have a story called "Packet Shooting"

                http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/raketnuestrelbu.shtml
                We regularly fouled them, a couple of times with the sailors the corners were taken out for targets. There is a photo there. Todlko has a larger aircraft carrier and they put a garland.
              2. val
                +2
                19 July 2019 02: 57
                For logic, the rocket has. I don’t know how now, but what about the DAC, that the X-22 has a logic down.
                As well as at Amethyst. More precisely, two types of logic. Down and oligofoen.
                Aim at more reflection or aim at the first captured target.
                The second option was used for special purposes.
              3. val
                +1
                22 July 2019 10: 11
                Ours look like that. Which to imitate the war once every .... more.

                And all this shines like a good cruiser.
        2. val
          +2
          18 July 2019 21: 30
          Question. Where is the radar system located and how is it informally related to the forces and command of the fleet?
      2. 0
        18 July 2019 20: 48
        Actually, the goal signature is even more specific than the signature. And you can bypass any system, but you can notice any bypass of the system and avoid cheating the system. To deceive ZGRLS modern is not easy.
        1. val
          +2
          18 July 2019 21: 31
          Yes. But the signature bank needs to be collected, it can be distorted. And this time, and the planes are already in the air.
          1. -2
            18 July 2019 21: 38
            A signature bank is created in advance. Very much in advance. About immediately after launching the ship.
            1. +2
              18 July 2019 23: 38
              and how can you create a signature bank when you see a ship from above? With using what?
              signatures from different directions are very different. And even the simplest corner reflector will easily change it.
              1. -2
                18 July 2019 23: 42
                It seems to me that you and I have a very different idea of ​​how the ZRGLS works.
                1. +2
                  18 July 2019 23: 49
                  depending on which ZGRLS.
                  If the surface wave, then no problem.
                  but only they have a small range, 200-400 km.
                  and if a spatial wave is from above.
                  and there are many problems.
                  Since the signal reflected from the surface (land or water) is much more powerful than the signal reflected from the target, systems are used in the ZG radar to make it possible to extract a useful signal. The simplest systems use the Doppler effect, in which a moving object changes the frequency of the reflected radio waves. By filtering the received signal with the original frequency in the radar, it is possible to isolate moving targets. This principle is used in almost all radars (including over-the-horizon), but in the case of over-the-horizon radar, it is significantly complicated due to the movement of the ionosphere itself.

                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80
                  it is one thing to observe the launches of ballistic missiles by a sharp change in the signal at the point of their placement, it is another thing to isolate a relatively slowly moving ship in the sea.
                  and even define the "signature"
                  hi
                  1. -2
                    18 July 2019 23: 57
                    You are all mixed up. Read the text carefully at the link.
                    "There are also MO radars that use the effect of a surface electromagnetic wave (SEW, ground wave), which propagates along the surface of the water at distances of up to 200-400 km."

                    "Most often, over-the-horizon radars use the effect of reflection of short radio waves (3 to 30 MHz; decameter waves) from the ionosphere. Such radars are called ZG sky-wave radars."
                    Example - ZGRLS "Volna" -3000 km

                    it is one thing to observe the launches of ballistic missiles by a sharp change in the signal at the point of their placement, it is another thing to isolate a relatively slowly moving ship in the sea.
                    and even define the "signature"
                    The matter is, of course, more complicated. Therefore, ZGRLS "Volna" appeared much later than ZGRLS "Don-2N"
                    1. +1
                      19 July 2019 00: 40
                      it's you all mixed up, not me. I have written this to you several times already, and brought the link, and a quote about the problems of spatial wavelength-domain optical signals.
                      ZGRLS "Don-2N"

                      about how it is started smile Don2n is not ZGRLS, but an over-the-horizon station of a centimeter range.
                      As for the Wave, then it actually has two different stations - spatial and surface.
                      and the accuracy and reliability of spatial determination is far from superficial.
                      Real spatial ones are used to determine the mass launches of ballistic missiles, but there are completely different conditions
                      hi
                      1. -2
                        19 July 2019 01: 06
                        Yes, I mixed up. Not Don-2N, but Arc. But this does not affect only my thesis. The creation time is the same.
                        As for the Wave, then it actually has two different stations - spatial and surface.
                        It is possible that the spatial has a dead zone.
                        and the accuracy and reliability of spatial determination is far from superficial.
                        Why do you think so? And for what class of goals is this statement? Spatial radar is more difficult to determine low-altitude targets - yes. But even with such goals, the problems of reliability of the determination are generally resolved. To determine such large objects as a large warship, the characteristics of modern ZGRLS are more than enough.
                        And why did you get the idea that the Doppler effect is used on modern surface-to-air and airborne surface monitoring systems? It’s generally not good to build a spatial satellite navigation system on it - the ionosphere walks.
          2. 0
            20 July 2019 10: 13
            .
            But it’s impossible, parameters. And then they pulled up these signatures :-) :-) :-)
            And do not pronounce.
    2. +2
      18 July 2019 23: 19
      ZGRLS quite accurately determine the ship by signature, as if not more accurately than over-the-horizon radars.

      why do you think so?
      Normally, only surface-wave Oscillations operate, but their range is small.
      And where does he get this "signature", by the way, when "viewed from above"? and how does it stand out against the background of water?
      1. -1
        18 July 2019 23: 28
        but they have a small range.

        3000 km is this "short range"? Oh well
        where does he get this "signature", by the way, in the "top view"
        Where do the over-the-horizon radars come from when viewed from the side?
        and how does it stand out against the background of water?

        I understand that you need to lay out the specification for ZGRLS? Maybe a list of plants and responsible persons?
        1. +1
          19 July 2019 00: 15
          near surface-wave radar system 200-400 km.
          long range of the ZGRLS spatial wave.
          but the accuracy and probability of determining there "three bast shoes on the map"
          1. 0
            19 July 2019 00: 25
            long range of the ZGRLS spatial wave.
            but the accuracy and probability of determining there "three bast shoes on the map"

            Why do you think so? These systems were generally created to detect mass attacks of low-flying cruise missiles, not like giant surface ships.
            And the accuracy of +/- three bast shoes for tracking a large surface ship in real time is quite suitable. We know what is in a square of 50 * 50 km - the same "Granite" or "Dagger" can be started up, the rest will be done by the homing head - not radar, but optical.
            1. +1
              19 July 2019 00: 52
              ZRLS of a spatial wave were created to determine the mass launches of ballistic missiles and it is in that quality that they are primarily used.
              theoretically, they can also be used to determine mass launches of Raman scattering; they have a high speed and this can be used for Doppler filtering.
              And tracking slow surface ships is another matter.
              Filtering there is extremely difficult and the probability of determining the goal is very low.
              and even more so "signatures" especially when viewed from above.
              hi
              1. -2
                19 July 2019 01: 09
                Filtering there is extremely difficult and the probability of determining the goal is very low.
                and even more so "signatures" especially when viewed from above.

                Nevertheless, the problem was solved :)
                1. +1
                  19 July 2019 03: 21
                  I know only the one and only ostentatious shooting in the Caspian Sea according to the surface wave Sunflower.
                  https://flot.com/news/navy/?ELEMENT_ID=174398
                  can you give a link to shooting at target designation ZGRLS spatial wave, if all problems are resolved?
                  1. -2
                    19 July 2019 14: 37
                    You will give an example of target-shooting A-50 for example. Well, so that it’s clearly indicated here.
                    1. val
                      +2
                      22 July 2019 10: 22
                      Here is what Shoigu collected last year on exercises in Kamchatka. Right anti-submarine group and An-26 rescuer.
                      Left shock. Well, the only tanker in the fleet Il-78. This is all against one AMG. A-50 was supposed to coordinate. It didn’t work out a bit. The A-50 manages to control the Mig-31 well, which is what he did, but it’s not quite possible to detect, identify, and direct projectiles. More precisely, it did not work out at all.
                      And yes, everything is beautiful in cartoons.
                      1. +2
                        22 July 2019 13: 04
                        So they gather from all over the country for exercises. So they migrate from fleet to fleet. This is Serdyukov flew in 2012.
                2. -1
                  19 July 2019 12: 07
                  Quote: Newone
                  Nevertheless, the problem was solved

                  The first full-time ZGRLS "Duga" was deployed in Soviet times near the Chernobolsk nuclear power plant (for guaranteed power supply). The purpose of the development was to track missile launches in the United States as part of the Missile Attack Warning System. But as it turned out in practice, the ZGRLS with a range of 9000 km with three reflections of radio emission from the ionosphere could not with certainty see a column of ionized exhaust gases from the launch of an ICBM with solid propellant rocket motors of the Minuteman or Trident type.

                  Already in the Russian Federation, a much more energy-efficient ZGRLS "Container" was created and deployed in Mordovia, which successfully works to detect surface targets in a two-hop mode at a distance of 6000 km and to detect air targets in a single-hop mode at a distance of 3000 km. The working range of the "Container" radio waves is in the range from 10 to 100 meters. The longest waves are used at the beginning of the OGRLS operation; after the ionosphere warms up, the transition to short waves of the specified range is performed. In the latter case, detection of air targets with linear dimensions of 5 meters (1/2 of the radio wave length) is provided - i.e. cruise missiles, regardless of the presence or absence of stealth technology.

                  The sector of view of the Mordovian ZGRLS is 180 degrees, its expansion has been announced up to 240 degrees. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation plans to deploy the second ZGRLS "Container" in the Far East.

                  The Russian ZGRLS, in contrast to the Soviet, uses a computer program to classify the type of target (air, surface, EPR, movement speed), the accuracy of determining two coordinates (azimuth, distance) is sufficient for targeting missiles with active GSN. The only condition is relatively small missile time, since the target at such distances during their flight can move a considerable distance.

                  For use in conjunction with ZGRLS, long-range anti-aircraft missiles with AGRLS from the S-400 and S-500 complexes, Zircon hypersonic cruise missiles and medium-range anti-ship ballistic missiles (5500 km) of the Chinese type are quite suitable.

                  The problem of ZGRL is only in one thing - the absence of a request / response system "friend or foe", but after the start of hostilities, this problem disappears by itself, because, for example, in the sea area it is precisely known about the presence of its own ships, which means that all the others are enemy ships (the sinking of ships of neutral countries in the war zone is the responsibility of these countries). Another thing is that it is necessary to distinguish between enemy ships and his own ships, but for this there is an analysis of the construction of orders for ship groupings, as well as data from satellite RTR and sonar reconnaissance from the nuclear submarine (up to 500-700 km when the AUG is in the off-shelf zone).
      2. val
        -3
        18 July 2019 23: 38
        "Oh, these skozosniki" (c) :-)
    3. +3
      22 July 2019 06: 05
      Probably limited by the signal strength of the station.
      Transponders, the same aviation, regularly turns off, which is why they collide. Comrades in the "radio intelligence headquarters" (there is no such thing in nature) will break their brains by analyzing hundreds of marks on the basis of missing-appeared.
      Radio engineering, in general. Radio intelligence is negotiation. )
    4. +2
      22 July 2019 19: 13
      Radio intelligence headquarters does not exist in nature.
      Specialists of RADIO intelligence are dealing with these issues.
  8. +7
    18 July 2019 19: 49
    Secondly, disguise as trade traffic is triggered against satellites and ZGRLS - ships are scattered among merchant ships, their construction does not show signs of a battle formation order, as a result, the adversary simply sees a breakthrough of the same type of signals on the route of intensive merchant shipping, and there is no way to classify them.

    Fine. But just where is the guarantee that intensive shipping will continue with the outbreak of war - in the same volume on the same routes? And it won’t turn into a system of convoys or single vessels moving under the strict control of the same anti-aircraft defense center of a given theater?
    Simply put - where to find intensive uncontrolled shipping in the war zone?

    Woodward and Masteen disguised themselves as peacetime traffic. In wartime, it would be like trying to disguise the Bismarck among the ships of the Special Winston convoy. smile
  9. +7
    18 July 2019 19: 53
    Thanks, interesting.
    You quoted Karev, I have complaints against him. For the fact that he claimed that the Tu-16 266 ODRAE did not tell the type of fighter that intercepted them :-) Hence the confusion.
    This is 1982. Flitex.
    The fact is that it was at this time that I was waiting for the vacancy of the NS in 122 OPLAE Yelizovo. And he was at the post of PNS at Vasiliev in esc. Tu-16.
    Often remained behind the beginning of intelligence of the regiment Draganov. And before that, in Nikolaevka, too, remained for the HP of the Maximyak regiment. Well, I had a bzik from the school, the knowledge of a probable opponent. So they smacked me. He planned to go along the reconnaissance line, but had to go anti-submarine.
    In short, I knew this kitchen thoroughly. How does the information go. What Karev wrote about is stupidity.
    Intelligence of the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet.
    1. +1
      19 July 2019 01: 08
      Would write an article or a whole series. Many would be grateful to you.
      1. +4
        19 July 2019 01: 59
        So I wrote with about fifty pieces approximately. And articles do not take here.
        Here.
        http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/
  10. +3
    18 July 2019 20: 48
    This resource has a great series of articles about the Falkland War!
    However, when I got acquainted with the details of this war, I had a very unpleasant feeling.
    It was as if he had witnessed a fierce fight between the armless and the legless.
  11. KCA
    +3
    18 July 2019 20: 48
    In the presence of "Daggers" and X-32, as well as other aviation anti-ship missiles and weapons of destruction, consider the fight of aviation against surface ships using "Exocets" and free-fall bombs? ZGRLS have long had a digital data processing system and quite accurately determine what kind of target, from missile launchers and ballistic missiles to the type of ship. A civilian ship sailing at 30 knots? It is impossible to confuse an aircraft carrier with a tanker at least in terms of speed characteristics.
    1. +1
      18 July 2019 21: 26
      Try to prove it to the author.
      1. KCA
        +3
        18 July 2019 21: 35
        What for? You just need to correct the title of the article a little:
        "Surface ships against aircraft. Rocket era, 70s - 80s of the 20th century"
        1. +1
          18 July 2019 21: 39
          As a historical digression, the article rolls, but only without trying to climb out attempts at generalization, advice, guidance, prophecy, etc.
        2. +3
          18 July 2019 22: 02
          Under this name there is a justification, that is, actual hostilities.
          Under your post about signatures that .... :-) only your text. Nobody knows how it will be in a real collision.
    2. +5
      18 July 2019 22: 11
      What daggers?
      I have long been tormented by the question, Experimental combat alert Mig-31 with a Dagger.
      How's that?
      The second question is target designation.
      The third question Migi under the Dagger was taken from the air defense. What about them?
      The fourth question. The number of daggers available. The amount of AMG. 6-2-2.
      6 units constantly. Two in 10 days, two in another month. Entry into the database.
      Up to 10 ships per order. Plus DESO, KON, KUGI.
      "Where to find all the teeth" (c).
      Even if one dagger gets into one ship, there are so many of them. And half are not. And a tenth is not.
      This I do not consider ships of the NATO countries.
      In my opinion you are a storyteller.
      1. 0
        19 July 2019 00: 16
        Mig-31 experimental combat duty with a dagger.

        This is what 10 planes did and put them in parts. In part, they exploit and write comments.
        The second question is target designation.
        ZGRLS (Wave, container), ICC Liana, AWACS A-100, A-50, reconnaissance aircraft Tu-95RC, even the MiG-31 itself can be used.
        1. +4
          19 July 2019 02: 14
          You see, I, as a staffer at the level of unification, are a little overtaken. Documents on combat duty were created by the General Staff. Approved MO.
          Under nth, sltv, there were documegt fleets, districts and below.
          What, GS developed documents for an experimental database?
          Maybe the army has changed, but this is nonsense. The complex is adopted? If so, why is experimental watch on duty? If not adopted, there can be no talk about any database.

          About target designation :-) I do not want to offend, but this also does not happen. Aircraft of various departments carry out different tasks. Navigator navigator imprisoned in the Kyrgyz Republic, never seen in the eye of an aircraft carrier, does not have the appropriate knowledge and education will be engaged in identification?
          A strike at AVMA was an impossible task even in the USSR, and success could only be in joint operations of the aviation and navy. Now the sea was given in green, from the fleet horns and legs. What are you talking about?
          1. -1
            20 July 2019 01: 05
            What, GS developed documents for an experimental database?
            Not experimental but experimental combat. I did not find any mention of putting the Dagger into service. They test, conduct exercises and develop tactics for combat use.
            Aircraft of various departments carry out different tasks.
            Now these are planes of one department - VKS
            The navigator Miga imprisoned in the Kyrgyz Republic, never seen in the eye of an aircraft carrier, does not have the appropriate knowledge and education will be engaged in identification
            Our assault rifles are single-stitched and delivered complete with a MiG or something? The ability to use the unique performance characteristics of the MiG-31 is. And the creation of tactics of combat use, training pilots for it is just a job that will take some time without a fork.
            Striking AVMA is an impossible task even in the USSR

            Soviet doctrine did not suggest it was not lifting. Very complex, with a lot of loss- but doable.
            Are you talking about?
            Mat. part of it is different. There were no missiles launched outside the range of AUG carrier-based fighters in the USSR (such as the Kh-101 or the same K = Dagger). "Volna" appeared in 1989 on an experimental combat! duty.
            1. +2
              20 July 2019 05: 59
                Yes, at least some cocoa, experienced, experimental :-) The word BATTLE provides for a combat mission. As in the cap of an order: Conclusions from the assessment of the situation, the enemy, their forces, the task, communication and interaction. In short, the presence of a combat package. The DB forces are included in the target distribution of the Main Operations Directorate. They are "allocated" a piece of the enemy, which he must destroy. If the weapon is not accepted for service .... what is the likelihood of defeating the enemy? About navigators. I graduated from college in anti-submarine aviation. There were profiles МРА, ВТА, ОУ ... We were trained for our tactics and technique, they finished grinding in profile shelves. Plowmen trained their navigators in Stavropol. You can, for example, appoint a dentist as an ophthalmologist ... Success in joint actions of forces, with the fleet. To do this, you need to understand the specifics of the fleet. Before launching missiles, you need to identify the target, or do you think that by launching a missile in the direction of a group of ships, it will itself find a target among a dozen others? About the Soviet period, there is an article by Semenov "Aircraft carrier. Answers to questions" There is how everything was organized at the Pacific Fleet. http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/avianosec-1985-86.shtml "The most realistic option seemed to be a strike with an approach at medium altitudes up to an estimated distance from the AVM of 800 km. Then followed a set to 10 km, turning on the radar, target detection and missile launch. In this case, before the launch of 5-7 aircraft by the Phoenix missiles of the duty pair. In total, in a salvo, up to 35-40 Kh-22 and 18-20 KSR-5. At the same time, 1 cruiser, 2-3 The aircraft carrier received moderate damage, which did not prevent it from performing aircraft acceptance and release in difficult conditions, without a move. If the enemy managed to lift the fighters, the task was not solved. The guaranteed AMG reached 3-5 missiles. 2 was diverted to false targets. 3-1 destroyer-frigates were hit. "
              1. val
                0
                20 July 2019 11: 33
                And who are they preparing in Chelyab now? Armavir and Stavropol covered. Now let out Krasnodar multi-workers? )))
              2. 0
                21 July 2019 13: 37
                that launching a rocket in the direction of a group of ships she herself will find a target among a dozen others

                Exactly. By target parameters, if your word "signature" is annoying.
                800 km to the estimated distance from the AVM. Then followed a set of up to 10 km, the inclusion of the radar, target detection and missile launch.

                In your Tu-95 can a radar detect a target at a distance of 800km? Did you definitely serve in reconnaissance aircraft?
                The Semenov you have indicated is not an MPA specialist, which is recognized at the very beginning.
                1. +1
                  21 July 2019 16: 09
                  It says "Before the calculated removal." :-) Tu-95 RC ... once again RC.
                  The article describes the events of the 80s.
                  And stupid Americans will wait until their parameters are identified by the rocket. Compare the volume of the "brain" of the missile and the joint BIUS ships. Recalls the tales of the great victory of the Su-24 electronic warfare and the Americans who have been fucked up.
                2. +1
                  21 July 2019 16: 23
                  The Semenov you have indicated is not an MPA specialist, which is recognized at the very beginning.

                  So I do not argue. Submariner and ploshnikov posts in one operating room.
                  Calculations are performed in the offices of posts. Post operators opposite plb. The calculations were performed by an officer in the operations department, my roommate next to me and around the house. Earlier the navigator of the Il-38 detachment from Nikolaevka.
                  Surname Vasily Doloman. The navigator and the navigator in Africa, he did the calculations. Well, there were two more captains of the crews from Mongohto.
                  Bored, on duty at night as young. So dangled through the dungeon, his nose popped. And what and how. What he saw and described.
                3. val
                  -1
                  21 July 2019 17: 03
                    Semyonov is too gentle with you. On the Tu-95 RC from 304 OGDRAP (Khorol) there is a warrant officer, an operator of an electronic intelligence station. On Tu-16 rm from 266 ODRAE (Elizovo), the second navigator is also engaged in this. As part of the ships of the station SPS-40,52,48. A feature of the aircraft carrier SPS-43. Hefty fool. They take their bearings, intersection, location. This is the calculated place. They communicate with you normally, answer, and you keep poking around, looking for inaccuracies and deception. I ask you what they did 40 years ago, and I will pin up. Got it out already.
                  1. -1
                    21 July 2019 22: 53
                    Valerian
                    If they try to mislead me with posts on the forum, I begin to understand. And you have once again got into someone else's argument.

                    VVAW
                    Please write more precisely. Your posts mislead people (specifically about "until the estimated distance from the AVM is 800 km. Then there was a set of up to 10 km, turning on the radar, target detection and launching missiles."
                    Tu-95RC, as far as I know, acts separately from the attacking TU-95 M3, so as not to unmask. The start-up is also carried out, as far as I know, from the lowest possible height, again for disguise. My sources are oral, but I trust them.
                    1. 0
                      22 July 2019 02: 15
                      Separately, but in a single plan. With maximum, because the rocket needs target illumination, it is semi-active
                      There is no Tu-95 MZ.
                      Estimated means estimated.

                      Stalin somehow wrote on the report on Ramzai what to do with the source. :-)
                      1. 0
                        22 July 2019 02: 25
                        There is no Tu-95 MZ

                        You're right. I mixed up with the TU-22M3.
                        Stalin somehow wrote on the report on Ramzai what to do with the source. :-)
                        But the source was ultimately right :)
                      2. 0
                        22 July 2019 06: 11
                        It’s okay. Typo.
                        Not the fact that he was giving true data.
                        And there’s not much use for it. Until now, the poses consider the dead, a million back and forth.
                      3. +1
                        22 July 2019 13: 26
                        In the diagram, the flight parameters of the X-22 and the carrier during uncoupling.

                    2. +1
                      22 July 2019 13: 13
                      Found an ancient scheme. Somehow I prepared for cadets in a simplified form 15 years ago .. If interested.
      2. +1
        19 July 2019 00: 20
        The dagger was never really shot at a ship, much less a moving one.
        there were only "electronic launches" at a fixed target.
        1. -2
          19 July 2019 01: 53
          There were no massive successful launches of tridents either? And the successful launch of ballistic missiles on the ship was a target. IN USSR.
          1. +1
            19 July 2019 03: 16
            Yes. there was a lighthouse on a stationary ship. one successful launch, after which this missile was not accepted into service, although the boat was already under it.
            I’m not about mass launches, but just about one launch of the Dagger on a moving ship.
            He was absent.
            1. +1
              20 July 2019 00: 26
              There were two test launches on the target vessel, the uncertainty of the coordinates of which was 75 km (the wave gives much less error). Both missiles hit the target with a given accuracy(given area because a nuclear charge was assumed). One of the missiles hit the target ship exactly.
              I’m not about mass launches, but just about one launch of the Dagger on a moving ship.
              He was absent.
              His while did not have. There were no Trident group launches either. And whether they will be - the question is no less open than with the Dagger.
              1. +2
                20 July 2019 06: 08
                You see, they can count money. Ponty, such as Operation Behemoth, they do not need it. By the way, how long did it take to bring the SSBNs into the line that fired a salvo? Or do you think that everything goes without consequences for the boat iron?
                You’d better compare Trident’s success, in my row 157 fail-safe starts ... or Clubs.
                1. 0
                  21 July 2019 23: 03
                  I understand that during a group launch, the launch system of missiles on a boat experiences additional loads that can lead to an unsuccessful launch. In particular, the boat at launch starts to oscillate along the vertical axis, which creates additional hydrodynamic loads on subsequent launch rockets. Accordingly, according to the logic of Avior, mandatory tests are needed or does not work.
                  When the mace will be in operation for as many years as the Trident had at the time how many launches you said there, then we'll talk. Comparing a proven serial solution with a completely new rocket is incorrect.
                  1. +1
                    22 July 2019 02: 05
                    Read the mace story
                    She will not be as old as the Trident.
                    They were already going to remodel it, after the departure of the general :-) An entirely new rocket for 18 years. aka already 1
                    А
                    1. val
                      0
                      22 July 2019 11: 12
                      .............
                      “To implement this idea, all forces and means at the disposal of Yuri Solomonov were involved, and most importantly, extensive personal and family ties. The most active accomplices in the implementation of this idea were the chief of armaments of the Russian Armed Forces Anatoly Sitnov and the head of the 4th Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense Vladimir Dvorkin. As a result of the work of this "creative" group in November 1997, a letter appeared to the Prime Minister of Russia Viktor Chernomyrdin signed by Ministers Yakov Urinson and Igor Sergeev. In this letter, they ask, taking into account the realities of the international and domestic situation, financial and production capabilities of Russia, to give MIT the functions of a leading organization in the creation of promising strategic nuclear forces, bearing in mind, first of all, determining the technical appearance of such means. The visa in Chernomyrdin's letter "I Agree" was enough for the machine to work:
                      - the 27th Research Institute of the RF Ministry of Defense was liquidated, which traditionally provided scientific and technical support for the development and development of sea-based strategic missile systems, and its functions were transferred to the 4th Central Research Institute of the RF Ministry of Defense, which had never before been involved in this;
                      - branch research institutes of Roskosmos (TsNIImash, Research Institute of Thermal Processes, Research Institute of Mechanical Engineering, Central Research Institute of Materials Science) were excluded from participation in the development of strategic missile systems for the Navy and the Strategic Missile Forces;
                      - the grouping of SSBNs of Project 941 was eliminated, and it was carried out according to a carefully developed plan. At first, the production of the R-39 missiles was stopped under the guise that the R-39 UTTKh "Bark" missile, which was being tested, would come to replace it. Then, under the pretext of three unsuccessful launches from the ground stand, the Bark ROC was also closed. At the same time, forced work was organized to destroy the ammunition of the R-39 missiles, and the fourth Bark missile, ready for launch, made taking into account the comments on the results of unsuccessful launches, was ordered to be disassembled and disposed of. "
                  2. +1
                    22 July 2019 06: 15
                    The danger is not only in missed missiles. The design of the boat, to put it mildly, is very contorted. Then the boat stood in the factory for a long time. It is not intended by designers for such loads.
                    Unnecessary risk.
              2. 0
                20 July 2019 22: 26
                P27k was aimed at the drive lighthouse on the ship. Only now there was no one to put it on the aircraft carrier
                1. val
                  -1
                  21 July 2019 22: 24
                  .
                  There is one there, from the movie "Astrologer" who threw a box with a light bulb into the Chinese embassy. Sit down with Konyukhov on the aircraft carrier. The continuation of the film will also be removed :-),
                2. -1
                  21 July 2019 23: 13
                  Only now P27k was developed from 1963 to 1975. If you think that nothing has changed in the homing systems of rockets since then these are your personal characteristics.
        2. -1
          19 July 2019 04: 22
          Avior, do not write about the Dagger, something that many do not know ... The dagger was created to hit targets, including moving ones - this is its purpose.
      3. -2
        19 July 2019 00: 22
        Migi under the dagger taken from the air defense
        There are 150 MiGs for decommissioning. It is good if the part for daggers is redone.
        The number of daggers available. The amount of AMG.
        Why destroy every ship in the AUG? 10 daggers with special warheads simultaneously for 1 aircraft carrier. Repeat 10 times. MiG airfields outside the enemy’s zone of destruction (except for strategic ballistic missiles). Air refueling.
        1. +7
          19 July 2019 02: 20
          In Yelizovo, Mig-31 of the 865th IAP has been standing in the sump for decades. What is our crap. Explain? These are donors. This year drove 2 BM. Not at all under the dagger. In Primorye esk BM. Also clean air defense.
          Special warhead speak. :-) :-) :-) :-)
          From there immediately flies twice as much.
          Well do not write nonsense.
          1. +2
            19 July 2019 11: 45
            Quote: VVAU
            In Yelizovo, Mig-31 of the 865th IAP has been standing in the sump for decades. What is our crap. Explain? These are donors.

            Not so bad. Judging by the implementation of official contracts, 113 MiG-31s ​​(out of about 120 combat units) underwent modernization.
            The main contractor for the modernization of the MiG-31 is the Sokol NAZ, which first carried out modernization under separate contracts, and in recent years has carried out these works under two contracts with the Russian Ministry of Defense - the contract of August 1, 2011 for modernization into the MiG- 31BM / BSM by 2019 60 MiG-31 combatant fighters, and an additional contract of November 2014, according to which another 53 MiG-31 combatant fighter should be modernized, with the completion of work by the end of 2018.

            At the same time, the Moscow Region signed a new contract for modernization:
            A new contract was signed with the Russian Ministry of Defense for overhaul and deep modernization of another batch of fighter interceptors in the guise of the MiG-31BM.
            On August 24, UAC President Yuri Slyusar said in an interview with Interfax that the entire fleet of MiG-31 fighter-interceptors would be modernized by 2023.
            "We expect that in the coming years the Aerospace Forces will receive several dozen more modernized MiG-31BMs, so that by 2023 the entire existing fleet will be modernized," Slyusar said.

            And since there are no combat machines left, then machines from storage will go into business.
            1. +1
              19 July 2019 12: 13
              Well I do not know. Last time was in Yelizovo four years ago. Still stood and Mig and Be and Il in deadlocks rd.
              Two BMs were brought in this year, two more are promised at the end of the year. But this is purely air defense.
              And taking into account that the IAP was merged earlier with 317 SAP, there only 4 sides could raise it.
              Maybe that has changed, I will not invent.
          2. 0
            19 July 2019 13: 13
            Well do not write nonsense.

            You write nonsense.
            What does standing in the sump have to do with re-equipping an airplane?
            It is possible to modernize (that is, remove the obsolete avionics avionics) and the aircraft from the sedimentation tank, including parts of adjacent aircraft. 150 aircraft to write off quite a lot.
            From there immediately flies twice as much.

            What are we discussing with you? A war with the NATO bloc or a sandbox fight? If there is a war, it will fly to us anyway. Or are you one of those "officers" who, like Katz, offer to surrender immediately?
        2. +2
          19 July 2019 11: 11
          Quote: Newone
          10 daggers with special warheads simultaneously for 1 aircraft carrier. Repeat 10 times.

          The use of UBC on the enemy’s AB is the last step, the answer to which will be the use of ICBMs / SLBMs.
          Quote: Newone
          MiG airfields outside the enemy’s zone of destruction (except for strategic ballistic missiles).

          Oh yes ... especially Elizovo. laughing
          1. 0
            19 July 2019 13: 17
            You read the doctrine of the modern RF at your leisure. What threats will the Russian Federation respond with a nuclear strike. Enlighten yourself.
            Oh yes ... especially Elizovo.
            And where does it say that MiGs with Daggers are based in Yelizovo? Have you come up with it yourself - have you laughed?
            1. 0
              20 July 2019 09: 59
              .
              .
                Are you twisting? Or do you have problems with imaginative thinking? Who wrote that they would take flashes from the air defense and remake them under the Dagger? They take it, convert it into a BM, drive it to Kamchatka, and it doesn't smell like a Dagger. It seems to me you have reviewed the multiclv. Idol was made from Dagger, Poseidon, Vanguard. This is not and will not be in the series. Everything is beautiful on the screen, but it comes down to it: Kursk, dock, Kuzya, Peshkov, Il-20, Ashot with rams, a bent sensor on a rocket, Losharik ..... You smart guys tell you who know how it works and how it should to be. And you sing odes to krivoruky amateurs.
              1. 0
                22 July 2019 00: 06
                Or do you have imaginative problems?

                With figurative thinking, everything is fine with me, as well as with logic.
                But your posts do not differ in logic.
                First you write
                The third question Migi under the Dagger was taken from the air defense. What about them?

                Then, "Who wrote that they would take flashes from the air defense and remake them under the Dagger?"
                Or distort or what?
                Idol made of Dagger, Poseidon, Vanguard. This is not and will not be in the series.

                This is your personal opinion. Are you still familiar with the fate of each of these devices in order to make such statements?
                Everything is beautiful on the screen, but it comes down to work Kursk, dock, Kuzya, Peshkov, Il-20, Ashot with rams, a bent sensor on a rocket, Losharik

                Well, yes I get it. As they say, everyone judges the world by himself.
                Smart uncles tell you who know how it works and how it should be.

                You, please, do not get into my authority here. I will decide for myself who is smart here and who is not so, huh.
                1. 0
                  22 July 2019 01: 59
                  :-)
                  Probably here I am not alone and able to distinguish lies and reality. I'm talking about cartoons.
                  Chumak charge water on the TV, fire.
                  I guess I'm not alone here and in
              2. 0
                22 September 2019 13: 07
                They took 10-12 sides from the availability and, after repair with the installation of special equipment, formed a squadron.
        3. -1
          20 July 2019 07: 41
          .
          .
            Well .... :-) What happens to the equipment when it is not serviced? Ours took Tu-16 from Leonidovo (Sakhalin) from the settling tank. They were there for 10 years. These are Mongokhtinsky and Knevichansky. Well, there were about two dozen of them, I saw them in 1982 in September, when the bosses, frightened after Flitex, planted our 77th regiment there. In the late 80s they were distilled to us in Elizovo. I stood alone in the TECHI. Press on the engine nacelle with your finger - dust fell and formed a hole. And so we passed everything in color. And the moments are longer in the sediment. :-)
          1. 0
            22 July 2019 00: 12
            Well, you have these planes after the sump, "overtook", and after that "Press on the engine nacelle with your finger - dust fell and formed a hole." that is, there is a high probability that the plane you pressed with your finger was there in Yelizovo and was standing. Out of service.
            Well, rusted engines do not fly ....
            1. 0
              22 July 2019 01: 53
              I think you are trolling me.
              In the Help, find out how the engine nacelle differs from the engine.
              And so it was distilled, with crumbling casing.
        4. val
          -1
          21 July 2019 22: 30
          .
          And you wonder how much IL-78 is available. Well, you can compare the tanker fleets of the United States and Russia. Very surprised.
          1. 0
            22 July 2019 00: 20
            21 boards are available. AND?
            1. val
              0
              22 July 2019 11: 30
              For evaluation, it is customary to compare.


              Are you going to refuel someone there? (MiG airfields outside the enemy’s zone of destruction (except for strategic ballistic missiles). Refueling in the air.)
        5. val
          0
          22 July 2019 10: 30
          year 2012. Left pair DZ. On the right is a sump. I don’t know how now, but in 2015 they only increased.
          1. 0
            22 September 2019 13: 10
            On the left is a couple. This is also in the crap or parking duty on duty?
  12. 0
    18 July 2019 20: 50
    and who wrote "I will be a creep if I don't tell you why the example of Musashi's sinking is uncounted?"
  13. +1
    18 July 2019 21: 12
    Thank you, in detail and interestingly, though, somewhere and debatable.
  14. +1
    18 July 2019 21: 25
    Quote from the beginning "Fortunately, the emergence of nuclear weapons saved humanity from the nightmare of all-planet full-scale wars. This, however, led to some virtualization of the combat capabilities of the fleets - we just do not know what a serious naval war using modern technology will look like." T e "we don't know."
    Then we recall the long history of WWII and repeat the same conclusions that have already been commented on very impartially. Then we turn to our own articles again. And, here's non, the long-awaited Conclusion. So "... the Russian leadership allowed a critical-scale disorganization of naval development, from shipbuilding to the collapse of adequate organizational and staff structures. In such conditions, the rapid development of the Navy is impossible, and demand from the Russian fleet will soon begin as with the present. So, there is no guarantees that the Navy will not have to conduct full-scale combat operations outside the zone of action of coastal fighter aircraft. And since the Navy has one aircraft carrier, and with unclear prospects, we must prepare to fight with what we have. "To be honest, it reminds me of a somewhat incoherent text. Well, it is clear, everyone is stupid, all admirals, all leadership is stupid, not adequate! it remains to save the country and the world to hand over the reins personally to the author of the opus. Rezun wrote something like this, calling Zhukov and the general staff names. Let's get a grasp: Structures - collapsed, this must be understood command of the Fleet, fleets, flotillas, etc. There are no guarantees, the aircraft carrier is olin ... a terrible picture!
    That is, we have a completely incapacitated collapsed fleet ... and further "... But in order for the enemy's aircraft to repeatedly be unable to harm our ships, the latter must act flawlessly, maneuver so that many times faster, but heavily fuel-limited aircraft time after time they missed the ship group, giving it a head start in time and the opportunity to hit airfields and other objects with their cruise missiles. " But if the fleet is ruined, what kind of flawless actions are possible in principle? The planes of an incomprehensible enemy are "severely limited in fuel" ???? This is despite the fact that in the World Ocean it is more likely that ships of a collapsed inadequately controlled fleet will be very limited in fuel in the World Ocean, but aviation from aircraft carriers and airbases spread around the globe will not be limited. Fast maneuvering against hypersonic missiles ??? Here I am generally silent, silent, silent ...
    "We need intelligence that can warn ships in advance about the rise of enemy aircraft, we need super-powerful naval air defense systems that can enable ships to repel at least one massive air raid, we need AWACS helicopters that could be based on frigates and cruisers, we need a real one, without" show off " preparing for this kind of action. " ... Everything is ruined, management is inadequate, Ahtung is needed! AWACS HELICOPTERS on frigates and cruisers ... there are two cruisers, such helicopters on frigates are doubtful. After all, one helicopter is not enough; ship equipment is also needed. And the supply of missiles and shells on board the ship is even more limited than the supply of fuel on the aircraft. The plane, even in the event of an unsuccessful attack, let the missile be shot down by missile defense and air defense weapons and return to base, refuel and take off again. but where will the missiles and shells appear on a ship in the world's oceans?
    "Finally, we need a psychological readiness to undertake such risky operations, and we need the ability to cut off unnecessarily risky and hopeless options of action from just moderately risky ones. We need to learn to deceive the enemy who has perfect intelligence and communications systems and dominates the sea."
    If the command is inadequate and stupid, where does the "psychological readiness for risk" come from? That there are "moderately risky" - here just one contradicts the other on the verge of hysteria. It remains to deceive the enemy !!! And if the adversary does not succumb to deception ???
    "Not having an aircraft carrier fleet, not being able to quickly create it, not having bases all over the world from where the base aircraft could cover the ships, we will have to learn to do without all these (important and necessary, in general) things." In real life, it is possible to do without all these important and necessary "little things" only in one case - to swing less with a cardboard sword and frighten readers of VO with hypothetical wars at sea. Moreover, if, God forbid, something like this happens, then no one will have to maneuver and deceive anyone.
  15. +1
    18 July 2019 22: 07
    For a non-military person, a very interesting cycle of their 3 articles. An interesting look with arguments.
    1. -3
      19 July 2019 00: 17
      Both the "historical works" of Rezun and others like him, and these articles are not intended for military professionals, primarily those with experience in commanding formations and formations, primarily naval ones, but for amateurs and amateurs, as you called yourself - "non-military" people.
      1. -3
        22 July 2019 19: 22
        So far, no one has denied Rezun’s version about the causes of the catastrophic consequences of the outbreak of war. How not to treat him, but it was he who raised and substantiated this theme — the blow of the USSR thwarted by Germany.
        1. +1
          22 July 2019 19: 49
          Not "nobody denied", and you haven't read numerous denials
          1. -1
            22 July 2019 20: 55
            I read both Podgorodetskiy and Antisuvorov. It’s not a topic of debate, but it doesn’t happen that the DEFENDING party, which has an advantage in the quantity and quality of equipment, lost everything, 4 million were captured and reached Moscow in 4 months. In World War I, with equal strength, they resisted more fiercely.
            1. +1
              23 July 2019 21: 32
              It happens all the time. The next generation army defeats the army of the previous generation without much loss. Moreover, generations are determined not so much by technology as by tactics and strategy. Take the same France with England. They were also gouged then, and just as quickly and without loss. Take the Russian-Turkish wars - the Turks were carried out even from the fortresses, with a multiple numerical advantage, although they had artillery, a firearm, and all things. Take Peter 1 near Narva when the line infantry of Karl made several times the superiority of Peter. And Peter near Poltava, when the line infantry of Peter carried out Charles. Technologically, the opponents were quite comparable. Take the Crimean War when the technologically advanced England and France, although they won, but with minimal gains and huge losses.
          2. 0
            April 10 2020 14: 48
            That's for sure, not a friend of VVAU reads only what is personally sympathetic to him ...
        2. 0
          23 July 2019 01: 15
          Wu Tali has already refuted. Even Shegerazade cannot refute this deliberate nonsense for the 1001st time. My advice: "When reading Rezun you need to carefully check all of his" constructions "line by line. You will understand how ludicrous and hysterical he is.
          1. +1
            23 July 2019 05: 56
            There is one.
            But the circulation, circulation .... :-)
            And the fact that our domestic masters did not offer anything in return, only "I sold my homeland, bastard."
            No one offered any other explanation, reliable, to the collapse of 1941. Unless, the whole army went crazy.
            1. 0
              24 July 2019 02: 20
              You are wrong, wagon and small cart denials. Circulation - everything is correct here. Firstly, money does not smell, and secondly, money from behind a hillock smells like roses. Read B Akunin carefully. Who is his main character? Russian? An, no tavton. And all Russians are stupid, drunk and thieving in one way or another. Read his novels about "The History of the Russian State", just thoughtfully - who are smart, talented, brave, etc.? And anyone, from Tatars to nemchura, and Russians ... So it is with Rezun - you need to read, checking every line!
            2. 0
              24 July 2019 02: 29
              Let me give you one example of a rezun's lie. In the "icebreaker" he mocks the fact that the naval base is shown in the Pinsk swamps. He writes that Stalin created it with the aim of attacking poor Adolf and launched huge monitors, marines and naval aviation there. But, the naval base was there since the 20s ... Polish, and the military flotilla was also Polish, and Polish monitors were floating. But not Rezunovskie monsters, so with a sediment up to one and a half meters. And the canal was not dug by the convicts, it was dug under the tsar a hundred years before the war and the Poles called it the Krulew Canal. It has survived to this day practically unchanged, as before the cows go ford. The Poles in the 39th sunk owl ships ... but there is the deepest pit - 3m deep. They were raised, repaired, given Russian names, and they became again the Pinsk military flotilla - only Soviet. The Marines were there - already a company! she moved along the banks of the canal on carts. Horrible power. There was also aviation - the long-obsolete reconnaissance aircraft P-5 and P-10 were one squadron! And the flotilla could not physically come out of fear of Berlin, the channel ended in Mukhovets with a retaining wall! So that water does not pour out of it. And Rezun leads the people to the terrible preparations of Stalin. Don't believe me? Read it on the internet. everything is in the public domain.
              1. +1
                24 July 2019 04: 23
                "Mother, do not lead in the little things, lead in the main thing." (C). :-)
                In general, I wrote about Rezun’s version of the causes of raegrom in the first period of the war.
                And on carts and the Germans moved. As for intelligence, it doesn’t matter what, but it is important to obtain data. Enough for intelligence.

                I propose to end this. Not the topic of Timokhin’s article. Izya all :-)
                I actually wrote about the version
                1. 0
                  24 July 2019 18: 29
                  The correct "faith" does not build on lies and stupidity. You did not understand anything and did not want to understand anything. Good luck to you, my dear.
  16. -2
    18 July 2019 23: 05
    Quote: val
    Line of sight

    Satellite RTR sees in a straight line.

    And AFAR RGSN PKR, when approaching the AUG, sees the NK contour, so it does not confuse the AV with the RLD.
    1. +2
      18 July 2019 23: 20
      The number of reconnaissance satellites and frequency of observation? :-)
      Processing time, transfer, decision making.
      Even with WWII, the aircraft carrier managed to walk in radio silence for weeks.
      And the Soviet satellite constellation, more numerous than it was now blowing bubbles. Flitex example.
      Well, or find the article "Aircraft Carrier. Answers to Questions"
      There is a story from my kashnik, Misha Bezlyudov, how an aircraft carrier deceived them.
    2. +2
      18 July 2019 23: 25
      About the circuit. A long time ago, both we and Amers have a PC-10. Different fashionistas.
      Aerosol, smoke, dipoles, rags with combustible impregnation. Their RTOs are often shown in parades. A minute, and instead of a ship, a cloud with thermal, radar and optical noise tens of times larger than the ship.
      1. -3
        18 July 2019 23: 33
        When did you see dipoles above AB?
        1. +1
          19 July 2019 00: 01
          Are you kidding?
          They are in a cloud of smoke, how do I see them?
          I'm lying. In the story "The Story of the Great Exit" I uploaded screenshots of the video. As with "Chervona Ukrainy" shot. Then I saw.
          http://samlib.ru/s/semenow_aleksandr_sergeewich333/shumaher.shtml
          On the "Kuza" the installation is seen. It is called PC-6.
          1. -3
            19 July 2019 00: 24
            What is the point of using dipoles against RCC, equipped not only with the GOS, but also with an inertial system that is completely interference-proof and will lead the RCC to falling into such an overall target as AB?

            This is without taking into account the radius of destruction by the shock wave and the neutron flux from the explosion of a special CCR PKR (from 100 Ktn to 1 Mtn).
            1. +1
              19 July 2019 01: 06
              the inertial system doesn’t have such accuracy to get into the ship, especially into the moving one.
              Traps and false targets lead the missiles away and it flies by without firing.
              1. -1
                19 July 2019 01: 12
                The inertial system "in general" has such an accuracy that it falls into a circle with a radius of 50 m at a distance of 12000 km. Predicting the trajectory of a moving object for 1 minute is a problem for a school course. It is practically impossible to change the trajectory of the ship during this very minute.
                1. +2
                  19 July 2019 05: 31
                  .
                  .
                  This is likely with a correction. And who flies for 12 thousand km
                  But the trajectory does not need to be changed, it is necessary to turn it off, previously dozens of shells with interference must be shot at the course. Reset the noise jamming, it starts immediately, there is a powder generator. :-) Well, and pray :-)
                  1. val
                    0
                    19 July 2019 06: 02
                    Cartoons fly to 12000. :-)
                  2. -1
                    19 July 2019 14: 08
                    Our Topol-M flies at 12000km. But it was about the maximum possible accuracy of the inertial system, and not about anything else.
                    need to turn away
                    This is called changing the trajectory of movement. And a large ship cannot turn away from the affected area in a short time.
                2. -2
                  19 July 2019 09: 47
                  The accuracy of modern solid-state gyros is 0,1 meter per 1 second flight.
                  1. val
                    0
                    22 July 2019 03: 50
                    ?.
                    Are you kidding again?
                    This is Panikovsky’s accuracy when he performed blind
                    0,1 meter per second. And in a minute?
                    I remember there should be angular values. Linear in inertial systems.
                    1. 0
                      22 July 2019 10: 17
                      QUO per minute 6 meters. In angular quantities I do not remember.
                      1. +1
                        22 July 2019 12: 40
                        Something is not right.
                        If the rocket flies to the maximum range, to the range in Kamchatka. This is 22 minutes. Well, with the strategists it’s clear, but if a subsonic hour flies. Or a plane for a radius of 12 hours?
                      2. +1
                        22 July 2019 21: 21
                        The ICBM flies to the USA in 35-40 minutes - this is 210-240 meters of CWO on a modern inertial. But now they also use astrocorrection before the entry of warheads into the atmosphere, so the CVO is reduced to 90 meters.
                      3. +1
                        22 July 2019 23: 34
                        According to my data, in Kura and for 500 it sometimes throws.
                        About astro correction :-) In 1980, he lived in a hostel with a friend Andrei Mendel. He graduated from Frunze and, by fate of fate, took into account what he took into account, got into a navigator on the IL-38. Then Klimov taught at the school
                        He also told me only the PDA with Tobol to work on input and for which stars the rocket performs correction. Seven stars ... remembered five
                      4. +1
                        22 July 2019 23: 35
                        Astrocorr at the highest point of the trajectory.
              2. 0
                19 July 2019 05: 37
                There is active interference causing the fuse to trip. When he took off the last stage of protection. I won’t say for sure about RCC, but in aviation systems of electronic warfare there is such a thing. True, it was taught a long time ago, where is the radio fuse.
            2. 0
              19 July 2019 02: 26
              Inertial under coastal objects. RCC as far as I know. Granite 120. Progress-200 Amethyst-50.
              But, the resource of an aircraft carrier is 40 sbc. While the PCR will fly, the aircraft will already be in the air.
              No need to start with apples, in response will fly twice as much.
              1. -2
                19 July 2019 09: 50
                So far, we have n-times more tactical spetsbCh, while the United States also has the production capacity for the production of plutonium.
                1. val
                  -1
                  19 July 2019 15: 26
                  .
                  .
                  Andrei. We are talking about the fleet and, accordingly, the fleet carriers. Soon Timokhin will jump out of the ban, he will give you the heat. :-)
                  And if Klimov gets connected, you’ll tryndets .... joke of humor.
                  1. +1
                    19 July 2019 16: 03
                    Nobody argues that Maxim and Shurochka are power laughing
              2. +1
                19 July 2019 14: 10
                No need to start with apples, in response will fly twice as much.

                Do you think that if you start a war with NATO, it will not fly?
                1. val
                  +1
                  19 July 2019 15: 22
                  Well, maybe it doesn’t arrive until one side applies.
                  Look, in Syria, the guys from Utkin’s company tried to run into the oil factory, which the Americans were guarding. No one began to raise noise. Or Su-24 Peshkova. Well got off with tomatoes.
                  I am about a regional conflict.
                  1. -1
                    19 July 2019 23: 31
                    You do not see the difference between an aircraft carrier or a missile cruiser and PMCs?
                    And the fact that we did not get involved in the war with Turkey after the plane, but closed the question by other means is an exception to the rule. An attack on an aircraft carrier is a war in 99,99% of cases, and for a TNW war just right. In that, 0,01% of cases when an attack on an aircraft carrier is not a war can an aircraft carrier not be drowned.
                    1. 0
                      20 July 2019 07: 43
                      Principle.
                      Why didn’t they write about Peshkov? :-)
              3. -1
                22 July 2019 00: 24
                Those. the country is the first to use nuclear weapons in the doctrine of which the use of nuclear weapons is prescribed will not be the first to use it in case of war, if we do not apply? Really?
            3. +1
              22 July 2019 19: 26
              Finishes if the enemy will have a topographic map with the coordinates of the aircraft carrier at anchor.
          2. val
            0
            22 July 2019 10: 35
            ...............
        2. +1
          19 July 2019 00: 12
          I've never seen.
          and they are smile
          4 six-barrel Mark 36 SRBOC.
          1. -4
            19 July 2019 00: 27
            The question is simple - after how many minutes does the AV come out of its cloud of dipoles at a speed of 36 km / h?
            1. 0
              19 July 2019 01: 08
              the speed will decrease, there will be 12 or 24 fields, he puts them in a series.
              he does not hide behind them, just the GOS RCC is redirected to a cloud of dipoles.
              there is also Nulka and the like, they imitate the target, creating a false response signal from the radar of the GSN RKR.
              1. +3
                19 July 2019 02: 29
                It’s hard to say exactly. BIUS decides depending on the situation. What, how, to whom and where. The general system of electronic warfare KUG, well, or AMG. One design
              2. -4
                19 July 2019 09: 52
                I already wrote that AFAR works along the contour of the target - where did you see the cloud of dipoles with the contour of the aircraft carrier? Nulke is also unable to draw the outline of something.
                The corner reflector is also not a contour target 300х75 m.
                1. 0
                  19 July 2019 11: 26
                  where is the afar?
                  on RCC it is not.
                  It will be a little expensive to put it on the RCC.
                  the Japanese are doing something like there, but how and when it will be really combat-ready .....
                2. -1
                  19 July 2019 11: 31
                  and if an afar appears on the RCC, then masking behind a cloud of dipoles with the simultaneous setting of several more similar fields may well be applied.
                  at least it will lubricate the picture.
                  just launchers Mark 36 SRBOC add everything.
                  1. -4
                    19 July 2019 13: 25
                    Not to say, there is a much simpler way to protect AUG from the attack of any anti-ship missiles with AGRSN (in the event of a nuclear conflict, of course), even subsonic, albeit supersonic, or even hypersonic: the inclusion of full-scale false targets such as container ships that cruising speed, size, displacement, radar and sonar signatures correspond to aircraft carriers (if necessary, a decorative take-off deck can be welded from thin-walled steel Do).

                    But for this case, we have a good old square-nested method of "seeding" an area target (AUG order) with warheads with special warheads from the MIRVed medium-range ballistic missiles of the RS-26 "Rubezh" type. One missile with a MIRV without any AFAR - and all AUG floating craft are guaranteed to be out of order (at least). This is important from the point of view of the fact that escort destroyers are simultaneously carriers of cruise missiles, the total number of which may exceed the number of cruise missiles launched from carrier-based aircraft.
      2. -1
        18 July 2019 23: 46
        And how long does this cloud last? 10 minutes? ZRGLS is not a rockets homing head, but a detection station.
        And the Soviet satellite constellation, more numerous than it was now blowing bubbles.
        You do not compare electronics 30-40 years ago with modern ones, and optics too.
        1. +2
          18 July 2019 23: 57
          Dinner spoon. Start at the approach of the rocket, nothing more than nascent has not yet been invented.
          On the other side, electronics is also developing.
          1. -3
            19 July 2019 00: 02
            Well, then we are discussing not the problem of jamming the missile homing head, but the problem of finding a ship at sea.
        2. -1
          19 July 2019 01: 09
          the corner reflector will stay for at least a week
          1. -1
            19 July 2019 01: 36
            Those. will unmask the ship for a week? I think that's fine. Finding a ship is to understand that this ship is in a given square. And against missiles with special warheads, interference is generally useless. Well, the missile missed a kilometer, and there the affected area was 1 km ("incorrigibly damaged and immobilized").
            1. +1
              19 July 2019 02: 50
              no, you still need to determine if this is an aircraft carrier or a fishing seiner pulling a pair of corner reflectors.
              and as for interference, the rocket will not explode until it hits something strong enough. just then the goal will fly away to search.
              1. val
                0
                22 July 2019 03: 41
                This is so, but you forgot about self-liquidation in the event of a failure of capture and the exit of the extension time.
                This is when the rocket is guided for some time according to completely outdated data. For V-V rocket 5 sec. For anti-ship like 30 sec. Well, I won't say for sure, this is what the "trunks" used to say when hanging and heating missiles on Sakhalin.
            2. -1
              19 July 2019 10: 03
              Quote: Avior
              There is also the concept of instrumental range radar

              There is no radar on the RTR satellite, and passive radio emission receivers are installed in the centimeter / decimeter / meter range.

              For example, the sensitivity - low-orbit satellites RTR intercept signals of cellular phones. Therefore, to intercept the signal of the near-range radio AB (at a distance of + 1000 km) or a direct signal from the radar of an AWACS aircraft (at a distance of + 2000 km) is a routine task for them.
              1. 0
                19 July 2019 11: 27
                at the transitions, the AUG is in radio silence mode, and Hokai is also in RTR mode without radiation.
                1. +1
                  22 July 2019 00: 32
                  Yes Yes. Valorous US military in radio silence mode using passive detection devices alone detects the launches of Russian rfaf rockets per thousand kilometers and 9 out of 10 are shot down by air defense means and 10 are removed by means of jamming. laughing
                  1. -1
                    22 July 2019 06: 30
                    Are you wacking again? :-)
                    It does not detect starts at first, but the media and knocks them down.
                    The article has opinions on this subject Sokerin and Panov, deputy commander of the Tu-33M3 division.
                    Discussions are attached to the article, read them.
                    I understand that it’s unpleasant to realize that even at the peak of the power of the USSR, the king was naked. And now .... scare the enemy cartoons.
                    1. +1
                      22 July 2019 06: 54
                      Quote: VVAU
                      scare the enemy cartoons

                      And he, stupid, is scared belay

                      Quote: VVAU
                      Tu-33M3 divisions

                      Good morning. Wake up already laughing
                      1. 0
                        22 July 2019 21: 25
                        .
                        "But then the kid climbed with the amendment" (c).
                    2. val
                      0
                      22 July 2019 10: 40
                      ..............

        3. 0
          25 July 2019 02: 16
          The man is stuck in the past. After he resigned, the world stopped developing. He was the last smart one.
      3. -1
        19 July 2019 00: 20
        Yes, as a temporary measure, moreover, now there is something more perfect that creates the image of a ship nearby, there are laser suppressors of optics ... but this all works for optical devices.
    3. -1
      18 July 2019 23: 36
      that is why now they put combined GOS optics with a millimeter radar for example.
      and try to put in the GOS AFAR with a synthesized aperture.
  17. -2
    18 July 2019 23: 28
    Quote: VVAU
    The number of reconnaissance satellites in the constellation and the frequency of observation?

    One RTR satellite controls a bandwidth 2000 km along the route of its flight. The time of one revolution of the satellite around the Earth is 1,5 hours. Earth diameter 6000 km. Those. Three RTR satellites will provide monitoring of any region of the World Ocean with a frequency of 1,5 hours.
    1. val
      0
      18 July 2019 23: 48
      There is an article in Google about satellites of the USSR. How many of them ran. Their purpose. To control the northern part of the Pacific Ocean with a frequency of one hour, more than 10 units are needed. Well, look at the Kiemals of Amer. Why 2000? Write all ten already :-)
      Sorry, it seems to me that you are writing just like that, an unconfirmed fantasy.
      1. -2
        19 July 2019 00: 04
        The formula for determining the radio horizon is as simple as a nail - 130 km, multiplied by the square root of the radar location - for a satellite, 400 km, a total of 2600 km in one direction and 2600 km in the other, i.e. the maximum swath width is 5200 km (with the power of the radiation source at the "Hokai" level).

        Geometric fantasy, cho.
        1. 0
          19 July 2019 01: 19
          the maximum swath width is 5200 km (with the power of the radiation source at the "Hokai" level).

          and this is just
          Geometric fantasy, cho.

          the radio horizon is not enough, there is still the concept of the instrumental range of the radar.

          Radio horizon formula - the sum of the square roots of the radar height and the target in meters, multiplied by 4,11, the result in km, if Che.
          that is, with your data, the strip should be 1 644 000 km. smile
          hi
          1. -2
            19 July 2019 01: 25
            I was mistaken, if you count in both directions on your lane, then 2 times more.
            from the Earth to the Moon, 384 km, if smile
    2. -1
      18 July 2019 23: 52
      satellite ephemeris are known, and to organize a radio silence mode every half hour is a small problem
      1. -2
        19 July 2019 00: 00
        The problem is that the satellites SUDDENLY use not only passive RTR means but also optics and active radars.
      2. +3
        19 July 2019 00: 05
        So it's a long time. Even when the shuttle was flying. The operational duty journal was. Telegras came when it was necessary to turn off working means. When flying the shuttle.
        He called RTSnikov. Passed them the time when work is prohibited.
        1. 0
          19 July 2019 00: 22
          Even before the Shuttle, the tables of the passage of satellites were in the frame of each duty officer, I’ll say for sure from the beginning of the 70s.
      3. -1
        19 July 2019 00: 07
        12 RTR satellites are in orbit - and the enemy will be tortured once in 23 minutes to interrupt AB's combat work (in fact, there are enough 8-10 satellites, since the AUG does not walk in the Arctic and Antarctic).

        And then - you can’t turn off the near AB radio drive until you lift all 60-80 deck aircraft into the air.
        1. +2
          19 July 2019 02: 37
          There is bprm, there is dprm, there is prmg, there is smallpox, there is rsp ....
          This is to ensure landing. For take-off, a driving radio station is not needed ..
          What are you talking about? What are 60-80? :-)
          Raised in pairs, they form groups. There will never be 60 aircraft carrier aircraft in the air at the same time. Even in war.
          1. +1
            19 July 2019 04: 34
            Quote: VVAU
            There is bprm, there is dprm, there is prmg, there is smallpox, there is rsp ...

            You did not forget about the course-glide path system?
            1. +2
              19 July 2019 05: 21
              :-) :-) :-)
              :-) I wrote RSP. In addition to the DRL, the KGG is included in it. I just replaced the teacher at the university for a year and counted the top ten, six and P-18.
              I had to learn :-)
              1. +1
                19 July 2019 05: 52
                RSP is a radar landing system, which includes a surveillance radar (DRL) and a landing one - which has a visibly double indicator, one displays the course line and the line of permissible deviations, and on the other the glide path line (2 ° 4`` minutes is optimal) and the line tolerances. All this is coupled with lighting indicators so that the pilot can see how he is flying relative to the landing point.
                The course-glide path system is a little different - it has receivers (course and glide path) on the plane with blenkers that close when the plane is on the course line and glide path, signaling - this uses the absence of signal modulation - the equivalence of the modulation zones - course or glide path line is between two radiation patterns of 2 oscillations. Course-glide path system on the ship probably not, since it is very sensitive to the underlying surface and the curvature of the radiation pattern at the same time ... therefore, the radar principle of constructing the course and glide path is used. But at airports, pure course-glide path systems have been and are being applied.
                1. +1
                  19 July 2019 06: 16
                  VVAU! Here, many probably forgot on the forum that Russia is armed with the Mineral and Monolit-B ZGRLS, which are designed for target designation.
                  Thanks and good luck:-)))
                  1. -2
                    19 July 2019 11: 33
                    is, and how, and a long time ago. it's just about nothing.
                    can you give a link with a description of the firing with target designation from Mineral or Monolith?
                2. +2
                  19 July 2019 10: 31
                  .
                  Yes, VIKO. KGG in KUNG RSP and the flight director on the tower.
                  More precisely, the head of the near zone, he was called that.
                  Not always 2,4.
                3. val
                  +1
                  22 July 2019 10: 56
                  ...........
          2. -3
            19 July 2019 09: 45
            In the case of a preemptive strike in a nuclear-missile conflict, all of the operational presence of the AB will fly up.
            1. 0
              22 July 2019 21: 47
              .
              :-) Where did you get such a "serviceable availability"? All serviceable ones will take off, but in the order of preparation. Have you seen colorful Teletubbies on the deck?
              These are training groups. They release and meet, inspect and service, refuel and suspend weapons. These groups are in a squadron, they will not be able to serve more than 24 aircraft per hour. Therefore, in the air at the same time can not be more than 48 cars.
  18. 0
    18 July 2019 23: 33
    The Falkland conflict, in my opinion, cannot be regarded as an example of the battle of ships against aircraft for a number of reasons.
    1. The British also had aviation.
    2. The Argentines acted for a number of reasons at long range, in fact at the limit of the radius of their aircraft.
    3. Their ancient AWACS quickly failed.
    4. As a result, they were unable to organize massive and well-constructed raids on the British. In particular, they failed to provide the main advantage of aviation - concentration of forces.
    5. The technical level of the opponents was different.

    An example of a battle of aviation against the fleet at an approximately equal level is the battle of the island of Paphos in 1974.
    During the occupation of Cyprus, by mistake, Turkish aircraft raided Turkish destroyers near the coast of Cyprus.
    The result - one destroyer was drowned, two received heavy injuries and they would have been finished off if the situation had not cleared up.
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D1%83_%D0%9F%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B0_(1974)
    In general, the superiority of aviation at sea, of course, does not mean that any aircraft will be able to drown any ship in any conditions.
    1. val
      +2
      18 July 2019 23: 50
      They did not take into account that the Americans supplied the British with satellite intelligence information.
  19. -3
    19 July 2019 00: 28
    It should be understood that modern ships are armed with cruise missiles and, in principle, such a missile defense can attack any airfield and any important radar from a distance of “from a thousand kilometers or more”

    The only type of Russian sea-based KR is Caliber.
    But he has a radar seeker in the last section, which means that they will not be able to shoot at take-off - only large detached radio-contrast targets. Here's a big radar possible.
    But it doesn’t hurt the planes to take off hi
    1. -1
      19 July 2019 01: 46
      The only type of Russian sea-based KR is Caliber.

      Those. Does the RF have "Granites", "Mosquitoes", "Uraniums"? Oh well
      Caliber is the only cruise missile that, like the tomahawk, is used to attack ground targets and this missile has no radar seeker due to its uselessness. You know, airfields do not run or swim anywhere.
      1. 0
        19 July 2019 02: 54
        There is. but all this is RCC and along the coast they can work very limited.
        The only specialized Kyrgyz Republic on the coast is only Caliber.
        but he also has a radar seeker, which imposes restrictions on the choice of target.
      2. 0
        19 July 2019 03: 11
        Of course, there is a radar head. used for precise guidance in the final section.
        ARGS-14.
        http://www.astrum-avia.com/ru-ru/production/special-systems-complexes/self-guidance-system-for-precision-guided-weapons/
        Tomahawks have an optical DSMAC. It is guided by pictures of the area.
        1. val
          0
          19 July 2019 15: 12
          .
          .
          Somehow in memory TERCOM was postponed. :-)
        2. +2
          19 July 2019 23: 47
          Now, the question is: why on earth do you think that non-export calibers flying at 1500 + km are equipped with the same homing head as the 3M-14E export variant with a range of 300 km? The sheds with the militants that hit these missiles on the radio-contrast target are not pulled.
  20. ABM
    0
    19 July 2019 01: 37
    Quote: val
    They did not take into account that the Americans supplied the British with satellite intelligence information.


    By the way, it turns out that no! our whole war came up with and threw this info
    1. val
      +2
      19 July 2019 02: 46
      According to the US satellite data, the British platoon attacked the "G. Belgrano"
  21. ABM
    0
    19 July 2019 02: 48
    Quote: val
    According to the US satellite data, the British platoon attacked the "G. Belgrano"


    no, read the captain’s memoirs, refutes
    1. +2
      19 July 2019 05: 23
      Well yes. Scouts are still guys. Who will officially confirm this.
  22. ABM
    -1
    19 July 2019 02: 51
    Quote: val
    According to the US satellite data, the British platoon attacked the "G. Belgrano"


    “The order of Admiral Lombardo was intercepted by British intelligence. strikes on all visible Argentine ships.At the same time, the deployment of the cruiser "General Belgrano" was well known to the political leadership of Britain, since Commander Raford-Brown constantly reported on all movements of the cruiser, wherever they were - in the 13-mile zone or beyond. After a brief meeting, Margaret Thatcher approved Admiral Levin's plan. Permission to destroy the old cruiser, outside the declared war zone, was obtained at 00:2. "
  23. ABM
    -1
    19 July 2019 03: 14
    [quote = ABM] [quote = val] According to American satellite data, the English pl attacked "G. Belgrano" [/ quote]


    "The boat first accidentally spotted an Argentine tanker and stayed next to it until a cruiser approached it for refueling. The nuclear submarines Spartan and Superb patrolling nearby should have found the aircraft carrier, but failed to do so."

    1. val
      +1
      19 July 2019 06: 06
      I’m sticking ... :-) I read about it in the intelligence report. Literature came a month, the NS wrote off for familiarization.
  24. +1
    19 July 2019 06: 56
    Quote: LeonidL
    As a historical digression, the article rolls, but only without trying to climb out attempts at generalization, advice, guidance, prophecy, etc.


    The article doesn’t even work as a historical digression, this is especially evident in the example of the author's description of the Falkland War, which clearly showed the defense of the British fleet even from air strikes armed with free-falling bombs. But the author continues to pull the owl on the globe, simply ignoring the uncomfortable facts that do not fit into his picture of the world.
  25. +2
    19 July 2019 10: 23
    Alexander noticed an inaccuracy. At the time of the hijacking of the "Sentinel" he belonged to the BOD.
    And already when he was sent to us in Kamchatka in the 173rd brigade, the 1135th were reclassified to SKR.
  26. -1
    19 July 2019 10: 30
    Thank you, very respected author Timokhin, but did not read to the end ...
    Tired of attracting a conditional spherical owl to a conditional globe, but ...
    The British were helped with intelligence on the mattress ...
    Argentina had no place to take such intelligence chiches, from a word completely ...
    The Argentine Air Force acted at the limit of range, and they only had a few minutes to find something and to do something, throw a thread ...
    Of the hits on Aglitz ships, practically nothing purchased with love by the Argentines from the west did not explode, neither a bomb nor anti-ship missiles ...
    Conclusions:
    Well, from where is this a classic example of a modern naval battle ...
    Do not shave the Trojans, pah, the Westernizers of their gifts, for they are deceitful and cruel ...
    1. +2
      19 July 2019 12: 07
      Quote: Ehanatone
      Argentina had no place to take such intelligence chiches, from a word completely ...

      To be fair, the argas were able to do this on their own. Attracting for this literally everything that can "fly and look". They even fought business jets: "lirjets" from the Escuadron Fenix ​​(a pair of Air Force planes + mobilized vehicles with crews of civilian volunteers) flew reconnaissance missions for British forces and even imitated the arrival of strike groups, diverting the attention of air defense. During the flight on 07.06.1982/XNUMX/XNUMX, the "lirjet" of the Phoenix squadron squadron was shot down by the Sea Dart from the Exeter.
  27. +1
    19 July 2019 10: 33
    But if the author had written an article about how, with the help of kizhalov and zircons and something else that would be strictly secret, we would melt all the imperialists, if only he would take advantage. And so we look at the book we see a fig. Argentinians are easily topics of shaving, it’s all to know, why do not confuse people with unnecessary details.
  28. +4
    19 July 2019 10: 40
    About greenhouse conditions among Argentines, the author is of course annealed. Despite the fact that they had only five exoset rockets. By which they sunk two ships. And so it was necessary to bomb the ships as in WWII. If they had at least 15-20 exosets, all British ships would melt. Etandars launched exosets with absolute impunity.
  29. -5
    19 July 2019 10: 46
    And do not listen to the words of promises from zapadentsev! ...
    For the mouth of the west is false, filthy and not pure ...
    and smelly impurities are erupted from their western lips constantly, like vomit from the lips of a stinking drunkard ...
    and this vomit is more stupid than stinking, and smelly more than the stench from the anus of a lazy sloth ...
    1. +1
      23 July 2019 20: 46
      false mouth of the West, filthy and not clean ...

      They made fun. Almost the entire Russian. elite money. real estate, business. children and grandchildren of the deceitful :-)
      As Stalin asked the deceitful Roosevelt about Lend Lease and the second front.
      Sami now on what hardware and in what operating system do you sit and print? Does Windows not lie? :-) And how Stalin wrote and half-power
  30. 0
    19 July 2019 12: 23
    all these games with the escape from the attack of ground aircraft and other naval maneuvers are perfectly practiced in the old simulator "harpoon"
    NATO officers are well acquainted with such programs.
  31. 0
    19 July 2019 12: 58
    Quote: vladimir1155
    because the mosquito fleet is easier to hide in the fog or pass off as merchants and fishermen

    well, the mosquito fleet is difficult to pass off as merchant ships - they are very different in size
    but another thing surprised me - HOW the pilots could not visually identify such a large target,
    Is there anything other than a silhouette in the fog that was visible?
    1. val
      +1
      19 July 2019 15: 06
      .
      .
      And can fishermen be? :-)
      There is a lower cloud cover below the minimum of the commander.
      They are decreasing, the "Dangerous Height" signaling on the RV, 38 meters on the IL-60.
      But water is not visible. The decline stops, the target is not identified, presumably ...... a report on the situation.
      Speed, imagine 450 speed at a height of 100 meters. And also you need to take a picture, consider onboard. Flashes very quickly. And you need to know the forces. And there are many. But you need to know both your own and others, especially in the Baltic states.
      Yes, and it’s dangerous when seen, find a Pliev or Karakozov disaster, for example.
      1. +1
        19 July 2019 15: 32
        Well, you can distinguish a merchant from a warship, if there is visibility
        the only question was how it was with the clouds.
        1. +2
          19 July 2019 16: 35
          .
          Yes, you can, if it is an IL-20 or Tu-95 rts. According to the characteristics of the location (he is also interested in what kind of crap flies over his head) and conversations on the air. But it’s better, of course, to see. :-)
  32. val
    +2
    19 July 2019 14: 54
    Alexander, a few inaccuracies.
    awaiting orders to strike in the standby position at the airport, in "readiness number two." It is impossible in another way, only individual units can be on duty in the air, in exceptional cases and not for long - squadrons.
    Just ready number two. There is duty on the airfield and in the air.
    In the air there is no readiness, not one, not two.
    And why exactly two? The pair may be in the first (crews in the cockpits, weapons suspended, rst on reception, etc.) It turned out an hour and a half, to replace. Or in the third, the planes are loaded, the weapons of the planes, reconnaissance equipment are suspended, the crews in places designated by the commander, etc.
    And not the links, but the troops, if we are talking about the airship of the ship, more than 40 tons. Tu-16, or Tu-22.
    And hereinafter "Flight preparation" is called preparation for a second flight.
  33. +2
    19 July 2019 16: 21
    .
    .More, with your permission.

    Raising a regiment on alert from readiness number two, building it into battle formation, and reaching the desired course is ideally an hour.

    On command, in goth two already after raising the alarm part.
    The regiment is three esc, 10 aircraft of 12 crews.
    Take TECH, ARZ, not all carriers in the regiment. There is a detachment of tankers, electronic warfare.
    Let 24. Min takeoff interval two minutes. At least two groups, or even three.
    Investigators, a couple earlier.
    Hour is it you got excited. On the strength of one and a half. I am Tu-16 and 22.
    Construction in battle formations, for a strike of at least 90 degrees. And then battle formations, when forming a rocket salvo.
    As in the infantry-marching order, unlike company infantry, in platoon ... it seems.
    1. val
      +1
      19 July 2019 17: 51
      Like that. A chain of aircraft on the RD. At the preliminary inspection, at the executive inspection. He took off, the next minute he waits for the executive, this is before the exit to the lane. While all that the previous sausage calms down, the sand and any garbage will settle, so that it does not drag in the engine.
      Then he taxied on the runway, checked the brakes, the navigator sets the course. The PAC reads the map. KK takes the thrusters out, "The crew is taking off" Here are two minutes and runs. Take off. Is attached to the leader, collection. Further, according to the scheme, who follows whom. Galdezh on air ... the aircraft carrier is happy :-) in the zones
  34. 0
    20 July 2019 02: 05
    Good day, about the results of the Falkland conflict strongly disagree with the author. The English fleet was elementary lucky because the bombs dropped (note the bombs of World War II) for the most part did not work and the rockets for technological shelling were used out of the total number of two or four (I do not remember exactly). That is, if there were missiles or at least standard bombs, the fleet would have been crushed with 100% probability.
    1. +1
      20 July 2019 06: 13
      .
      .
      "Whoever is lucky, the rooster will blow it away" :-)
      What to guess now, the victory is not on the side of large battalions, but on those who shoot better.
      It was necessary to prepare better, to buy weapons, and then start a war.
  35. +2
    20 July 2019 10: 28
    The author is well done reasoned and interesting. As always, they criticize him a lot, often even plainly without reading the article. For example, that he does not write about unexploded Argentine bombs, read gentlemen carefully !!! in the article it is written about it. In general, criticizing knowing that the author will not answer (banned him) is not very beautiful. Better write your article (anti Timokhin). And so everything is standard, the first koment is either deleted or criticized.
    1. 0
      20 July 2019 14: 32
      Well, yes, he writes that the fleet completed the task, while this conclusion is not obvious due to the incomplete consideration of all factors.
  36. val
    -1
    20 July 2019 11: 48
    Quote: Newone
    Now, the question is: why on earth do you think that non-export calibers flying at 1500 + km are equipped with the same homing head as the 3M-14E export variant with a range of 300 km? Sheds with
    the eviks who hit these missiles on a radio-contrast target are not pulling.

    Attention is the answer. The barn is not going anywhere, it is a stationary target. Homing is not necessary, only the inertia system with correction.
    1. -2
      21 July 2019 13: 24
      Have you ever read the argument, or what? It was about an attack on the airfields of the Kyrgyz Republic for ground targets, of which there is only one in the Russian Federation - Caliber. SUDDENLY airfields are also stationary targets.
      1. val
        -1
        21 July 2019 15: 17
        .
        Are airfields a stationary target? What a news :-)
        1. 0
          22 July 2019 00: 38
          I really hope that this is sarcasm, and so I recall a joke about oaks and defense ...
          1. val
            0
            22 July 2019 02: 41
            .......
              Oops ..... How did you guess that sarcasm? Rather bewilderment. The airfield is an area target, a point barn. Although both can be classified as stationary. I hope this is clearer. )))
  37. ABM
    -2
    21 July 2019 08: 40
    [quote = val] I’m stabbing ... :-) I read about it in a reconnaissance report. Once a month, literature came, NS wrote off for review. [/ q [quote = val] I’m pricking ... :-) I read about it in a reconnaissance report. Once a month literature came, NS wrote off for familiarization. [/ Quote]

    storytellers! https://topwar.ru/27524-udar-iz-pod-vody-epizody-folklendskoy-voyny.html at least read here! for a long time already none of the serious authors writes this nonsense
  38. +1
    22 July 2019 22: 48
    Quote: VVAU
    in air at the same time there can be no more than 48 cars.

    Is there a link?
    1. 0
      22 July 2019 23: 00
      Study the materiel
      https://topwar.ru/31458-nekotorye-osobennosti-ispolzovaniya-palubnoy-aviacii-superavianoscev-tipa-nimitz-ch1.html
      1. 0
        23 July 2019 00: 24
        And there is. Even less. I have Midway and Forrestal.
        48 since then separately SHA A-7i A-6 .. IA F-4 or F-14
        A F-18 and the assault and istr. And then, under a hundred, there was sal and vert.
        No conflict ..
    2. +1
      22 July 2019 23: 12
      Memory. Knew a lot at the time. :-)
      If you are interested in the process itself in theory. There is NIAS. Manual on engineer aviation service. Another Soviet. There are no special differences. Which in Russia I will not say. Ukrainian NTZ. Instruction from the technical care.
      Clone from the Soviet almost. Only there is a secret part on BG.
      And so you can count yourself. Time for preliminary, to re-refuel, suspension, catapult cycle.
      And then this peak value is 48. Usually less. If idle, then someone will fall on fuel.
      1. -2
        23 July 2019 00: 36
        48 carrier-based strike aircraft - this is all the presence on board an American aircraft carrier in Soviet times. Now, after the elimination of specialized carrier-based PLO aircraft, the maximum number of strikers can be estimated in 70 - 80 units (the last figure corresponds to a preventive nuclear strike against Russia or China).

        Based on the preliminary suspension of cruise missiles to the aircraft and the pairwise takeoff of the last time at a rate of two minutes, then in 1,5 hours it is possible to lift all AB attack aircraft to the wing. Moreover, when delivering a preemptive nuclear strike, there is no need for the first couples to take off to wait for the last ones, since the power of special warheads of the KR (> 300 ktn) on board each aircraft (and even more so a pair) is quite sufficient to destroy / disable such a target as a naval base.

        Another thing is that from the moment the Zircon hypersonic missile launchers with a range of 1000 km and a flight time of 6 minutes (launched from attack nuclear submarines) were adopted in the Russian Federation, no more than 10 aircraft will be able to take off from the deck of an aircraft carrier before the AV evaporates / becomes incapable of combat. as a result of a nuclear explosion of the special warhead "Zircon".
        1. +1
          23 July 2019 06: 03
          "Since the adoption of the Zircon" :-) :-) :-)
        2. +1
          23 July 2019 06: 18
          Andrey, it brings you up again. What are 300 ct? There are tactical charges. In a group of, for example, 10 aircraft, the charge will be one, two on the force. You remember that even one delay with a cable on Kuz led to the loss of the aircraft.
          Such an amount will not sit down later. Or catapult, or after landing they will need to be dumped into the water.
          To strike, a group is created in which the follow-up reconnaissance officer, reb, tanker, fighters, drills, lifeguards, demonstrator groups, air defense suppression. Who are the Mig-31 and S-300 Americans are well aware.
          After take-off, they need to be collected and managed. And in your opinion this is a horde of gopniks, after take-off they do what they want.
          In order for ALL to take off, they need to be prepared by ALL. This is done in steps.
          1. 0
            23 July 2019 11: 52
            You on the outskirts for 27 years clearly broke away from reality ("what kind of Crimea / Donbass / Zircon / .........), therefore, you chose a comedian for yourself as an Usokrainsky Silsky head.

            The power of Russian special warheads installed on the Kalibr missile launcher with a range of 2500 km is 100 Ktn. And to the Superhornet or Lightning II deck ships, when the carrier is flying at a distance of 1000 km, you can generally hang a pair of LRASM cruise missiles with a special warhead weighing 454 kg and a power of 500 ktn.

            Sitting down after a preemptive nuclear strike on the Russian Federation, the American deck ships will have nowhere - the sailors of the aircraft carrier will order the pilots to live long at the moment of turning into steam or losing the ability to receive aircraft on AB as a result of a nuclear strike on the AUG by Zircon, Caliber and Rubezh.
        3. +1
          23 July 2019 06: 18
          Andrey, it brings you up again. What are 300 ct? There are tactical charges. In a group of, for example, 10 aircraft, the charge will be one, two on the force. You remember that even one delay with a cable on Kuz led to the loss of the aircraft.
          Such an amount will not sit down later. Or catapult, or after landing they will need to be dumped into the water.
          To strike, a group is created in which the follow-up reconnaissance officer, reb, tanker, fighters, drills, lifeguards, demonstrator groups, air defense suppression. Who are the Mig-31 and S-300 Americans are well aware.
          After take-off, they need to be collected and managed. And in your opinion this is a horde of gopniks, after take-off they do what they want.
          In order for ALL to take off, they need to be prepared by ALL. This is done in steps.
          1. 0
            23 July 2019 16: 41
            Quote: VVAU
            To strike, a group is created in which an additional reconnaissance reconnaissance vehicle, tanker, tanker, fighters, drills, lifeguards, demonstrators, anti-aircraft defense

            Attack aircraft of US carrier-based aviation for delivering a preventive nuclear strike on coastal facilities of the Russian Federation using the KR LRASM is enough to reach the line of missile launch at 1000 km from the coast, so they did not give up in FIG:
            - interrogator (stationary targets with known coordinates?);
            - EW aircraft (in 1000 km from the coast?);
            - refueling (flight to the turn of the missile launch occurs within the combat radius of the aircraft);
            - fighters (when approaching the line of missile launch, the potential danger would be not Russian fighters, but their RVV DB missiles with a launch range of low maneuverable targets in 300 km);
            - rescuer (seaplanes are not based on AB, and helicopters do not fly on 2000 km);
            - anti-aircraft defense group (which is not at a distance of 1000 km from the coast).

            As for the demonstration (distracting) group, it is meaningless, since the coastal defense forces of the Russian Federation will have enough "Zircons" with 100-ktn special units to disable (disrupt a combat mission) all groups of US strike aircraft without exception - a high-altitude explosion of special warheads on the turn of the LRASM launch at the time of the aircraft approaching it will provide within a radius of 10 km:
            - damage / destruction of all aircraft in the group using a shock wave;
            - incapacitation of airborne radars using EMR;
            - burned out the fundus of one of the pilots' eyes with the help of light radiation.

            So the US decks when delivering a preventive nuclear strike against the Russian Federation will fly exclusively in pairs, rather than stacking in groups.
  39. 0
    23 July 2019 14: 22
    Thus, we summarize - the Argentines outside the "bomb lane", where Woodward deliberately framed his fleet "under execution" managed to destroy one combat ship. Because of the erroneous actions of his crew. And one transport on which they really did not aim, the rocket attacked it by chance.


    A strange assumption - given the fact that the Argentines had a total of 5 (five) RCC Exoset air-based (the rest they refused to supply France under pressure from Great Britain and Woodwart knew about it).
    And great performance - 2/5 missiles made hits.
    If such missiles were not 5, but 25?
    And if the strike was not delivered by a pair of Super-Standards, but by at least two pairs at the same time or a large outfit of attack aircraft?
    And taking into account the fact that the Argentine pilots made launches, almost from the maximum distance, without the tactical experience of using air-based anti-ship missiles, that is, the tactics of using anti-ship missiles were the most primitive.

    The author in vain underestimates the effectiveness of airborne anti-ship missiles.
    If the Argentines had more air-launched anti-ship missiles and more carriers, the result would have been even worse for the British expeditionary fleet.

    What does such an example show? Firstly, one should not draw far-reaching conclusions from the situation with Stark. In a real combat situation, aircraft attempts to approach the ships look like this

    Iranian F-4s did not attack from a low-altitude flight profile, as did the Argentinean Super Etandar pilots. Therefore, they were discovered in advance and taken for escort - an illiterate construction of an attack.
    Attacking an American destroyer, RCC Harpoon - that is, a weapon whose parameters are known and jamming is not a problem, will lead to a known result.
  40. +1
    23 July 2019 20: 55
    The main, let's say, "assumption" is that it is not taken into account that in the conditions after the Second World War there was never a "massive" use of aviation. At the same time, only sunken ships are counted. Again the "owl on the globe" is being stared ... Poor bird. Under the same Falklands, the British, having overwhelming superiority in the air and in the level of the naval personnel, suffered very heavy losses ... And if Argentina had a little more missiles? And the bombs at least exploded?
    True, I agree with the last paragraph ... well, the Soviet Navy worked exactly like that.
    1. 0
      23 July 2019 21: 38
      Quote: Taoist
      And if Argentina had a little more missiles?
      It would be interesting to lend the Tu-22M2 regiment for a week to the Argam, as part of the fight against Anglo-Saxon imperialism and for testing purposes. But in Argentina, "our man" was not at all in power.
  41. val
    +1
    24 July 2019 07: 17
    Quote: bk0010
    Quote: Taoist
    And if Argentina had a little more missiles?
    It would be interesting to lend the Tu-22M2 regiment for a week to the Argam, as part of the fight against Anglo-Saxon imperialism and for testing purposes. But in Argentina, "our man" was not at all in power.


    And the Americans will lend England a dozen aircraft carriers, within the framework of the NATO provision on attacking one of the members of the alliance. :-) :-) :-)
  42. 0
    28 July 2019 17: 03
    The case of the loss of the American AUS in Kamchatka is an example of the usual gouging and departmental ambition. It was enough for the Pacific Fleet command to contact the Air Force / Air Defense and in 20 minutes fighters or interceptors from Yelizovo would be at the point of contact.
    1. +1
      30 July 2019 16: 59
      Not by loss, but by non-discovery.
      For such requests for air defense fly search :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
      At that time, there is a Su-15 with a radius of 800. From its radar, he will not find a surface target. Typhoon has a distance of 60 km and a sector up. For identification it is necessary to decrease, and this is also a decrease in the radius.
      Pvoshnik never saw an aircraft carrier in his eyes. :-)
      Not gouging, but tactical literacy of the AUS commander.
      1. +1
        30 July 2019 17: 17
        Ask for a fly.
        In 987, the Tu-16 Efremov boarded the water. Air defense is flying. Village MiG-31, Oleg Vytrenok nickname Snake. Asked a second flight to search for flight guidance was the former Il-38 spacecraft from Nikolaevka Vanya Sementsov. I flew with him at one time a little. He went to the air defense to raise the board, sent to .... your problems, but if at PMV we will lose our Mig?
        And you about to ask for a reconnaissance flight :-)
      2. 0
        4 August 2019 06: 25
        Given that the connection was 550 km. from the Su-15 airfield, it would be quite enough even without the PTB. There is no need to visually identify an aircraft carrier. You can’t confuse it on the radar due to its size. Handymax-sized civilian vessels are still few in the world, and even more so at that time. The literacy of the American admiral is not in doubt. But SUCH results she gave only thanks to the illiteracy of the command of the Pacific Fleet and the lack of cohesion of the arms and types of troops.
  43. 0
    28 July 2019 17: 12
    Quote: Operator
    Lrasm

    LRASM - for now, like our "Zircon" - on the water with a pitchfork. But the weapon is "formidable", otherwise how can you compare yourself with pussies?)))
  44. 0
    29 July 2019 17: 45
    The author, in his favorite style, genresizes facts and holds back information that is unnecessary to him.
    1. +1
      30 July 2019 17: 20
      Comments, pliz. Otherwise, by the cash desk :-) :-) :-)
  45. 0
    20 January 2020 21: 01
    Awful analytics! Very subjective, biased opinion of the author (he even called the side of the USSR several times enemies). I read almost all the articles of Timokhin, he always lures with very interesting topics for me, but I always understand that he spent time reading it in vain. Excuse me, I am so harsh, since the author positions himself as an expert and narrates not as an assumption, which is appropriate for historiography, but as the truth that he discovered. Often, the author directly considers himself competent admirals, directly stating their mistakes. This is a very unprofessional approach for a journalist. And yet thanks for the work! However, I ask the author to be a little more modest.

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