Calibration gluttony, or the final consumption of ammunition by the Russian artillery of the First World War

36
We conclude the review of the norms of consumption of artillery ammunition of the Russian artillery in the First World War (see The appetite of war. The consumption of artillery ammunition by the Russian army in the First World War)





Norms of three-inch artillery


The rate of average combat consumption or average daily consumption of art shots in a certain period (operational period) varies depending on the nature of the hostilities. Thus, a head-on battle in an environment of maneuvering war, an offensive against a defending enemy, a breakthrough of reinforced bands, and defense in an environment of maneuvering or positional hostilities directly imprinted on the expenditure of the most common type of artillery ammunition. As well as the duration of the corresponding operation. The established norms of the average daily consumption of shots do not exclude the necessity of calculating the rate of shots necessary for the implementation of the corresponding operation - and the established standards of the average daily consumption serve as starting data when calculating the total number of necessary shots.

To establish the average daily combat flow rate of artillery shots based on the experience of the positional stage of the war, data on the average daily discharge per barrel (with “keeping the necessary cost savings”) determined by Upart based on the experience of the spring battles of the 1916 of the South-Western Front - figures were communicated to the head GAU (28. 06. 1916 G. No. 971). According to this data, the daily average flow rate was determined: for 76-mm light guns in 60 shots, for 76-mm mountain cannon in 25 shots, for 75-mm Japanese gun Arisaka in 40 shots on the barrel. The calculation of the number of shots required for hitting targets in breaking through a fortified strip (destruction of artificial obstacles, etc.) was based on the “Manual for Fighting for Fortified Strips” Part II. "The action of artillery in the breakthrough of the fortified zone." As noted earlier, it was published by Uphart in 1917, and in annex VII to the document based on the experience of 1916-1917 combat operations. indicated the approximate average consumption of shells per barrel - by day. For 76-mm field (mountain) guns, it was determined as follows: for the first three days of operation (attack and subsequent development of success) - 250 shells per day, for a further seven days (pursuit) - 50 shells per day.


The 7 application of the above Manual. From the author's library


To establish the rate of the average daily combat expenditure of 76-mm guns for the maneuverable period of war, as noted, you can use the data from the reports of the South-Western Front regarding the average expenditure of shots during the period August - September 1914. These data differ (which is quite natural, t. to. they relate to combat clashes of various nature and duration). In accordance with these data (on the day of the battle, the 76-mm gun used up 20 to 63 shells), the average daily combat consumption was about 40 shells.

In this calculation, isolated exceptional cases of the enormous expenditure of shells that occurred at the beginning of the war were discarded, when several batteries made several hundred rounds per day for three inches.

The average rate of need (the rate of mobilization stock) in artillery shots can be approximately determined by calculating the expenditure for a long period of war or for the war as a whole, but provided that there are no special restrictions on the use of shots in the time period taken into account, such as army from autumn 1914 g. to autumn 1915 g .; and then a corresponding plus amendment should be introduced in the corresponding calculation in case of providing ammunition for operations requiring very large expenditure, as well as in the case of other unforeseen circumstances; when determining the size of the amendment, it is necessary to take into account the rate of the average combat expenditure, which is derived for a certain period of the corresponding operations.

Upart data indicates that 1916 million 18-mm projectiles were spent in 76. Accordingly, the average monthly demand is 1,5 million (i.e., 9 - 10 shots per day) shots on the 76-mm gun, but without the plus amendment. To calculate this amendment, the rate of average monthly combat flow rate determined by Upart is 2229000 shots for intense 5 months 1916 months, from which, with a total number of 5500 - 6000 guns, will be released on one three-inch approximately 400 shots per month or 13 - 14 shots per day.

At the beginning of this year and then from August there was a certain lull on the Russian front, when the flow reached approximately 5 shots per day. E. Z. Barsukov, based on the specifics of the positional and maneuverable periods of the First World War and the experience of the Civil War, noted that the rate of monthly average combat expenditure should be 400 shells per 76-mm gun per month, which is 4800 shots per year and 14 shells per day.

The indicated average daily demand for 14 76-mm projectiles is derived according to 1916, and, accordingly, refers to the positional period of the war.

The most reasonable requirement regarding the number of 76-mm shells for the period of maneuvering war is the telegram of N.I. Ivanov, commander of the South-Western Front for artillery from 10. 10. 1914 d. 1165, then confirmed by the Headquarters Headquarters. In this telegram, N.I. Ivanov reported that the average consumption on his front was for 16 days of August for 350 76-mm shells per barrel, or for 22 shots per day, which the general recognizes as "very moderate." E. Z. Barsukov respectively noted that if we recognize for periods of combat calm (both in maneuvering and positional warfare) the flow is equal to 5 shots per barrel, then the need for a period of maneuvering war on an average day of the year will be 22 + 5: 2 That gives all the same 14 shells per day for a three-inch (or 420 per month).

The consumption of shots in individual combat operations of a maneuverable war is less than in a positional war, when a huge expenditure of artillery shots is required when making breakthroughs in a fortified band — to destroy wire barriers, destroying various fortifications, etc. But the total total need for gunfire for maneuver war is higher than the need for positional wars — after all, in a maneuvering war, clashes occur much more frequently than in a positional war — breakouts of fortified bands.

Drawing parallels with a later period, E. Z. Barsukov wrote that, defining modern combat supply standards, basic for stockpiling reserves in case of war and for preparing industry mobilization in wartime, the above-mentioned monthly need for 420 shells for 76-mm cannon increase to about 500 - 600 shots (Petrograd Allied Conference in January 1917 determined the monthly need for a year of fighting in 500 shots for 76-mm guns), or to 17 - 20 shells per day. The number of operating guns, the vastness of the upcoming theater, the state of transport, the development and direction of communication lines, etc., will have an effect (because the more guns there are, the smaller the reserve of shots can be, and vice versa, the larger the theater and the weaker the transport, the larger the reserves must be etc.). As a result, the presence of about 6000 76-mm guns (field, mountain, etc.) dictates the average annual need for war or the rate of mobilization stock of 76-mm shells - according to 20 shots per gun per day.

Shells for howitzer and heavy artillery


During the First World War, the Russian Army had a shortage of shots for howitzer and heavy artillery (especially for large caliber guns) even more tangible than the lack of 76-mm projectiles. But at the beginning of the war this shortcoming was not fully realized, because, firstly, there was little heavy artillery, and secondly, that extraordinary “hype” that did not arise during the war around the issue of gunfire for heavy artillery around the issue of shots for light 76-mm artillery.



Requirements of the Bet (Upart) on meeting the needs of the Army in relation to howitzer and heavy shots to the rear were not considered exaggerated, but at the same time they performed them very poorly, especially in 1914 - 1915. Even A. A. Manikovsky, inclined to see in the requirements of Upart “senseless” exaggerations, found the requirements of Upart regarding shots for heavy artillery that meet the current need. Moreover, as noted by E. Z. Barsukov: “A. A. Manikovsky repeatedly reprimanded Uparp for his weak persistence in limiting the “dispersal” of Russian 76-mm projectiles, leading to “obvious and irreparable damage” not only for military supplies, especially for heavy artillery, but also for the entire national economy. In this regard, he was absolutely right in principle, but his reproaches to Ufart were sent to the wrong address. Upart, as an organ of the army at the front, was not at all in power to create this or that supply “policy” in the rear. According to the laws of that time, all this should have been in charge and only the Minister of War should have disposed of all this. ”

One way or another, the requirements imposed by Upart on supplying the army with howitzer and heavy artillery shots were considered modest, but they were, more precisely, even too modest.

The data on the average mobilization demand, monthly and daily, and on the average combat expenditure of various types of artillery shots are summarized in Table No. 1 (Table No. 1 and the subsequent Tables No. No. 2 and 3 are based on the materials of the Upart archive and the personal archive of A. A. Manikovsky, and in relation to the French artillery - according to French sources: Rebuhl. Military production in France in 1914 - 1918 Translation 1926, Gascuen. The evolution of artillery during World War II. Translation 1921, Herr. Artillery in the past, present and future. Translation 1925). In the same table for comparison, the data are applied to the French artillery in the operation under Verdun 1916. In the future, the French artillery's need for artillery fires in the implementation of military operations (average consumption) significantly exceeded the one indicated in the table).


Table No. 1.


The French, according to the artillery colonel Langlois, considered it possible to launch an offensive operation only when the number of shots at the gun was brought from them to that indicated in Table No. 1. As can be seen from this table, the average daily combat consumption of artillery fires assumed by the French significantly exceeded the average daily consumption of Russian artillery - for example, 6 times for field guns. But the real consumption of shots near Verdun over a longer period than the 20 days indicated in the table turned out to be slightly less than expected.

According to the testimony of the same Colonel Langlois, in the period from February 21 to 16 1916 in June (116 days), the field guns of 1072-75-mm calibers used in the battle of the French 90 (i.e., e-guns). averaged over 10642800 shots per gun day). This average daily combat flow rate is close to the Russian actual expenditure in the operations of the South-Western Front in the spring of 87 - up to 1916 shots per day for a three-inch gun, i.e. French consumption exceeded Russian consumption of field cannon artillery 60 times.

As for the average mobilization (annual) need, then, according to E. Z. Barsukov, the average daily demand per field gun was approximately: in French artillery 1914 r. 9 shots, and in the period 1918 r. About 60 shots; in German artillery in 1914. 8 shots, in subsequent years, much more; in Russian artillery in 1914 about 3 shots, in 1916 about 9 shots. But as explained above, the numbers of 3 and 9 shots per gun per day do not meet the actual need of Russian artillery, and it is more correct to determine the average daily need for at least 17 three-inch shots, and the average monthly need for 500 shots per gun (if available in the army 5,5 - 6 Thousands of Acting Field Guns), as indicated in Table No. 1.

When comparing the total consumption of artillery shots of Russian and French artillery for a long period of the First World War, and not for periods of individual operations, it can be seen that the Russian consumption is insignificant compared with the enormous waste of French projectiles even for individual operations (see Tables 2 and 3; numbers tables are rounded).


Table No. 2.


Table No. 2 shows the consumption of shots of guns of almost all calibres, which were in service with the Russian army during the first 29 months of hostilities, i.e., in 1914 - 1916. The consumption of 76-mm shots in 1917 g. - about 11 million; respectively, all in 1914 - 1917. It was spent on the Russian front about 38 million 76-mm shells.


Table No. 3. By the end of the Marne battle, almost the entire set, prepared according to peacetime calculations for the whole war, was spent on 1300 shells on an 75-mm cannon; assuming the rounds of the 3840 guns and the consumption of about 1100 shells per 75-mm gun, it turns out approximately 4000000 shots.


Table 3 gives far from complete data; for example, for 1914, only the 75-mm shots are shown, the heavy shots of the 220 are not shown - 270-mm caliber, etc. However, the information provided is enough to judge the huge expenditure of shots by the French artillery - not only for defeat various kinds of purposes, but also for various protective, warning and other lights, that is, about such extravagance in the expenditure of shots, which Russian artillery did not allow itself.

As can be seen from table number 3, the French 75-mm field artillery in 1914 by the end of the Marne battle spent about 4 million shots, while the Russian artillery for the whole 1914, spent only about 2,3 million 76-mm shells. During 5, separate 1915, 1916 and 1918 operations. French gunners fired 10 million 75-mm shells (including only for the somm month 24. 06. - 27. 07. 1916 g. - before 5014000 pieces, and the record holder who ate more than a million 75-mm Grenade, became the day of July 1 (approximately 250 grenade per gun, and this is excluding shrapnel), in addition to large-caliber shells.

Meanwhile, A. A. Manikovsky and some other persons considered the consumption of shots for Russian artillery for 1,5 million per month to be excessively high, and the requirements of the Army on 2,5 to 3 million 76-mm shells per month (or 14 - 18 shells per gun per day) "clearly exaggerated, even criminal."

Over 1914 - 1917 Russians spent around 38 million 76-mm shells, and the French spent about 14 million 75-mm rounds spent for only a few operations. It should be recognized, notes E.Z. Barsukov, that “contrary to the established opposite opinion, that the Russian artillery spent the shots during the First World War relatively few, if its expenditure is compared with the expenditure of the shots of the French artillery. But in general the expenditure of shots in the world war was huge in Russian artillery; this expenditure would have been considerably less with skillful use of artillery by senior commanders. ” He called to anticipate the colossal expenditure of artillery shots in future wars - regardless of how well prepared the army is in terms of the art of using artillery and how artillery is careful in spending the shots. Saving the shots, the expert noted, is irrelevant when the gunners need strong support to solve the fate of the battle. And then the rate of fire of modern guns, allowed technical conditions should be used, not really reckoning with the consumption of shells.

The Russian rapid-firing three-inch "big" motovka "shells, which in a relatively short time, she can shoot those 3 - 6 thousands of shots, followed by damage to the gun. Accordingly, we should not forget about the need to prevent the guns from being shot — not by reducing the number of shots or prohibiting the use of the full rate of fire of excellent guns, as some recommend, but by careful handling of the guns, but by “correct and sufficiently calculating the mobilization need for guns and in advance mobilization preparation of factories not only for the manufacture of materiel and fire artillery pieces, but also for the correction of guns. ”
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  1. +2
    2 August 2019 18: 16
    No one could really explain why so many artillery shells were stored in warehouses, if they were sorely lacking in the tsarist army for a war with the Germans. The Red Army was also on a starvation diet and was forced to use trophies captured in battles with the whites. B. Chertok (Rockets and people)

    The paths of army commissaries are inscrutable. what
  2. +4
    2 August 2019 19: 31
    but not by reducing the number of shots or banning the use of the full rate of fire of an excellent gun, as some recommend,

    And they recommend it absolutely correctly.
    Fire mode. Or a lot, or fast. But never both.
  3. -7
    2 August 2019 20: 32
    But in general, the expenditure of shots during the World War was huge in Russian artillery; this expense would have been much less with the skillful use of artillery by senior commanders. ”

    Much depends on the level of training of the personnel, and everything depends on the level of training of the "senior management".
    The level of training of Russian officers of the PMV left much to be desired.
    1. +5
      3 August 2019 07: 31
      The level of both military preparedness and the general cultural and intellectual level of the Russian military in the WWII was two heads higher than the Soviet in the Second World War. Starting from the tactical bottom and ending with the upper echelon.
      The level of training of the Soviet military in the 20-30s. at least somehow it was supported and developed only thanks to the presence in the Red Army of "military experts" who could provide the correct military education and instill a military culture.
      1. -7
        3 August 2019 18: 13
        You are confusing something: the level of illiterate privates of WWII is in no way comparable to the rank and file of WWII, and there is no need to talk about the higher composition: in WWI there are pale personalities, many "heroes" are still Russian-Japanese, those of them who took part on the side of the "whites", lost to smithereens in the Civil War, the generals of the Second World War are among the galaxy of the best commanders, I am not afraid of this word "of all times and peoples."
        Read carefully the studies, or at least the memoirs about WWI.
        1. +3
          4 August 2019 07: 29
          Private PMV and WWII is a phenomenon of the same order
          And the officer and general corps of the RIA were beautiful, and the heroes of Rav were the exception, which they quickly got rid of.
          Read carefully the research, or at least the memoirs sent
          1. -8
            4 August 2019 13: 39
            You are confusing everything, the technology for 1941 has become much more complicated, these are illiterate village guys of the 1914 call. could sit in the trenches of the WWI, in the Red Army the first fight against literacy began, do not write nonsense.
            And about the general corps of RIA - what are you talking about? In what studies is it written about them that they are better than marshals and generals of the Second World War?
            Do not compare the RIA - the mediocre loser of the WWII and the capture of Berlin in 1945. The Red Army.
            Separate units, guard, and period.
            Name the commanders of the WWI who would achieve not local successes: a step forward - two backward, but constant work to seize the initiative, as in the Second World War.
            What such battles can be entered in the Annals of military art, operations of the level of the Second World War? What future commanders should learn from?
            Do not confuse military skill, art, and personal heroism.
            In what studies does it say that this RIA was an excellent army, capable of defeating Germany alone?
            In what memoirs does Denikin even have a word about it, and the same, Zhukov?
            But Denikin writes about personnel officers and he is not alone:
            “Indeed, life seemed to be pushing officers to protest in one form or another against the“ existing system. ” For a long time among the service people there was no element so destitute, so unsecured and powerless as the rank and file of Russian officers. Literally miserable life, trampling on top of rights and pride; the crown of a career for most is a lieutenant colonel and a painful, half-starved old age. ”
            1. +1
              5 August 2019 09: 04
              Quote: Eduard Vaschenko
              Do not compare RIA - mediocre loser of WWII

              The army did not lose the war. Her rear lost. It was the revolution in the rear of the country that led the country to defeat and the Brest peace.
              1. -6
                5 August 2019 09: 40
                The army is not separable from the people.
                The revolution began with an uprising of military units in Petrograd, which the military did not want to suppress. Cossacks slaughtered a gendarme who tried to disperse the demonstrators.
                Without the uprising of the Petrograd garrison, no "revolution" would have taken place.
                And the revolution, in turn, was caused by the inability, first of all, of the Supreme and the entire state. machines to wage war, join forces: everything for the front, everything for victory.
                No need to put the cart (revolution) in front of the horse (the administrative crisis of the monarchy).
                We even had the slogan, even when it acted: the people and the army are one!
                During the trip of the Duma deputies to the Allies, in the spring of 1916, Colonel B.A. Engelhardt (Octobrist) said P.N. Milyukov (cadet): why do you emphasize that the Russian people are ready to wage war to a victorious end? The people want peace, not war, to a victorious end.
                1. +1
                  5 August 2019 10: 03
                  Edward, I do not argue with you about this. But still to say that the army lost WWI is somewhat exaggerated in my opinion. Yes, the authorities were unable to mobilize society, separate potential "destroyers" who, from the Duma tribunes and through the press, began to discredit the supreme power, everything that was done during the Second World War, when not a word of criticism was heard in the direction of the authorities. However, the Army, namely the Army, did not lose the war. It's my opinion)
                  During the Great Patriotic War, the enemy stood near the walls of Moscow and the banks of the Volga, the army simply suffered monstrous losses incomparable with the WWI, but nevertheless we won. During the WWII, we lost Riga, Minsk ... But the Army survived. The people who needed this war didn’t survive like ... how ... No longer needed.
                  1. -3
                    5 August 2019 13: 37
                    Dmitry,
                    I don’t really argue either
                    it just turns out a paradox of thinking today, when you tell the truth about WWI - you are not a patriot, but if there was a cohort of people who did not teach about WWI at school, then what have those who always knew about it, but thought this to say the least, not at all a brilliant moment in our history.
                    About losses, I already wrote here in VO - many fans of PVM do not like this topic: different bets - different victims, WWII - it’s not clear why, how is Vertinsky ?, WWII - death for Russian civilization, hence the difference in victims. ..
                    Best regards,
                    Edward
                  2. 0
                    5 October 2019 12: 22
                    Riga and Minsk were lost after the February Revolution.
              2. +3
                6 August 2019 12: 19
                It was the revolution in the rear of the country that led the country to defeat

                Moreover, there was no defeat in this war.
            2. +3
              5 August 2019 10: 04
              Nothing I confuse Vashchenko.
              Everything is exactly the opposite of what you wrote.
              There is only one advice - you need to do something with one thing, and not all of a little bit, and as a result, nothing.
              To increase your educational level by citing documents, memoirs and studies that you have not heard of, there’s no desire whatsoever.
              Savvy people will already understand the absurdity of your words and comparisons
              1. -4
                5 August 2019 13: 41
                And this is also an argument when there is nothing to argue.
                Especially about documents, memoirs, studies about which I never heard ... good
                1. +2
                  6 August 2019 12: 11
                  Let me explain to Edward.
                  By the way, the RIA looked much more dignified and calm than the Red Army. Anyway.
                  What kind of pearl do we start with:
                  Do not compare the RIA - the mediocre loser of the WWII and the capture of Berlin in 1945. The Red Army.

                  it
                  or even cooler:
                  Name the commanders of WWI who would not have achieved local success: a step forward - two back

                  or a masterpiece:
                  Separate units, guard, and period.

                  or
                  What such battles can be entered in the Annals of military art, operations of the level of the Second World War? What future commanders should learn from?

                  maybe

                  or
                  Do not confuse military skill, art, and personal heroism.
                  In what studies does it say that this RIA was an excellent army, capable of defeating Germany alone?

                  these statements speak of your profound ignorance of Vashchenko, even though you were called to. and. n
                  So, choose any pearl - and I will explain
                  1. -3
                    6 August 2019 17: 14
                    Dear Svyatoslav,
                    I have heard these “explanations” since 1990, only here are the arguments of “0”.
                    I am familiar with historiography, from the year 1992
                    I hardly need explanations from people, excuse me, with a violation of causal relationships.
                    1. +2
                      6 August 2019 20: 49
                      I asked you a number of questions - with the desire for your mildly speaking inappropriate statements. I didn’t get an answer - to comment on your opus. It is understandable why))
                      Well, now I have a question)) At the same time, we will find out other cause-effect relationships)))
                      Since you supposedly to. And. N., can you name the code of the dissertation council, in which the defense date was also defended?))
                      1. +2
                        6 August 2019 20: 56
                        Or do you want to go through historiography, with whom supposedly familiar with all the universal evil and the masters of the West, and, E. Vashchenko? wink
                      2. -4
                        6 August 2019 22: 08
                        Have questions? Ask yourself, as my sergeant said.

                        Good luck hi
                      3. +2
                        8 August 2019 16: 12
                        And you do not write a comment, consisting of some opuses that do not correspond to reality. I will analyze each of them for spare parts, because I know perfectly well that I am dealing with an amateur. I just don’t feel like throwing beads ... This is first.
                        Well, imposture with the appropriation of academic degrees is a bust even for you. Think at your leisure.
                        So good luck to you nick e. Vashchenko.
                      4. -4
                        9 August 2019 17: 44
                        Svyatoslav
                        teach better than your spiders ...

                        When you write something, at least somehow similar to an article on this topic, prove that the RIA won the WWII, with historiography of course laughing , then we will say who is "beads", but for now these are empty words of an amateur:
                        I will disassemble for parts
                        chickens laughing.
                        I won’t answer to your empty adjutant bragging.
                        I repeat: if you have questions, in front of the mirror - to yourself.
                      5. +2
                        9 August 2019 22: 36
                        I repeat my question: which of your opus do you want me to disassemble for parts.
                        Maybe nonsense
                        Name the commanders of WWI who would not have achieved local success: a step forward - two back

                        or
                        What such battles can be entered in the Annals of military art, operations of the level of the Second World War? What future commanders should learn from?

                        You write a known linden and dodge))
                        to the question of discussing historiography - by the way, too, for a liar.
                        What is it there, if you have appropriated a degree, then you lie in the rest laughing
  4. +1
    2 August 2019 21: 35
    Good evening, dear Alexey!

    tell me you can’t share the prices for the ammunition of that time
    really needed to calculate the effectiveness of military efforts
  5. +5
    3 August 2019 08: 33
    Everything is known in comparison, our expense is less than the French
    And how much is done
  6. +6
    4 August 2019 22: 16
    Nda-ah !!! The high professionalism of the officers of the Russian army is indirectly seen in the example of this article. The consumption of artillery shells is several times less, and the front was kept. One Brusilovsky breakthrough is worth ...
    Thanks to the author for interesting materials!
    1. -2
      5 August 2019 09: 07
      Quote: Kapitan A
      Nda-ah !!! The high professionalism of the officers of the Russian army is indirectly seen in the example of this article. The consumption of artillery shells is several times less, and the front was kept. One Brusilovsky breakthrough is worth ...
      Thanks to the author for interesting materials!

      As far as I know, the consumption of shells of the Central Powers in the east was also less than in the west. This is due to longer distances, a stretched front line and a less deep defense. Although Germany, of course, still had an advantage in shots over the Russian army.
      1. +2
        6 August 2019 12: 12
        [quote] [As far as I know, the consumption of shells of the Central Powers in the east was also less than in the west / quote]
        a source?
        1. -3
          6 August 2019 16: 34
          Suppose even this one:
          This means that Russia’s expenditure for 1914-16 years should be compared with 34,2 million shells not with 270 million, as Barsukov and sapojnik mistakenly do, but with 92,0 million spent by Germans on all fronts. If we assume that the consumption of shells is proportional to the number of divisions deployed on one or another front, then we get that on the Russian front it was deployed in 1914-1916. on average, 32,3% of German divisions (minimum 14,9% in August 1914-th, maximum 41,7% in August-September 1915-th), and the consumption of shells 92 x 0,323 = 29,7 million units.
          https://oldadmiral.livejournal.com/26342.html

          that is, about a third of the total consumption. And this is actually understandable. The war on the Western Front was of a completely different nature than on the East.
          1. +1
            6 August 2019 20: 45
            Do you even understand what you are referring to?))
            Some kind of live journal, in common parlance - an Internet garbage pit))) the value of garbage stored in it, does not need comments))))
            So there is nothing to allow here))) And even more so to reproach with something such a specialist as Barsukov.
            What is the nature of these numbers? I repeat - what source?
            1. -4
              7 August 2019 08: 14
              the source is a logical conclusion related to the number of German divisions on the eastern and western front. If you have other sources that confirm my fallacy, I admit that I was wrong.
              1. +1
                8 August 2019 16: 09
                source - logical inference

                Yes uzhzhzh ....
                Well then, study - what is A SOURCE there is in principle. So as not to write such madness - the source is someone's inference there)))
                Well, with sources, you must confirm that you are right, not me. Since I already hinted about it. So do not translate the arrow)))
                1. -4
                  8 August 2019 16: 17
                  So you do not have your data. It's a pity. I was hoping for interesting documents or factology
                  1. +1
                    8 August 2019 17: 49
                    I have my data
                    But this is exactly what you stated above:
                    This means that to compare Russia's consumption for 1914-16, 34,2 million shells should not be with 270 million, as Barsukov and sapojnik mistakenly do.

                    Once this is stated, then it is your duty prove this promise.
                    And then we'll talk))
                    1. -4
                      9 August 2019 08: 55
                      This is a forum where everyone shares their opinions. I made an assumption
                      Quote: Trapper7
                      As far as I know,
                      from which you, instead of a well-founded answer like "Dmitry, you are mistaken, in fact the expense was such and such", to which I would definitely answer "thank you" began to arrange dances with a tambourine a la Yavlinsky "I know what to do but I will not tell. " Well, the one who knows you is ours, stay with your knowledge.
                      And further,
                      Quote: Adjutant
                      it is your responsibility to prove

                      I do not owe anything to this forum. I made an assumption, which is based on the usual logical conclusion, but instead of a reasoned answer, you just started making fun of it.
                      I always considered you an adequate person and supported many points of view under many articles. Today I realized that I was disappointed.
                      1. +3
                        9 August 2019 22: 32
                        Wait. Not this way.
                        First, you called a personal point of view the source. This is absurd and not knowledge of the category referred to as the source.
                        Secondly, you made an attack on Barsukov, and on the proposal to substantiate these dubious figures, you suggested for some reason to prove something to me there))
                        That's all. He didn’t make fun of anyone.
                        I always considered you an adequate person and supported many points of view under many articles. Today I realized that I was disappointed.

                        And how disappointed I am with your ignorance of the "source" category and the translation of the arrows - and you can't imagine))
                        It is very sad
  7. The comment was deleted.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned), Kirill Budanov (included to the Rosfinmonitoring list of terrorists and extremists)

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