Why is the MiG-35 a bad idea for the Russian Aerospace System?

234

"MiG" between eras


The first thing to talk about when discussing the prospects of the MiG-35 is continuity. In fact, this is still the same MiG-29: for example, the Soviet engine RD-33 was chosen as the basis for the power plant, to be more precise, its upgraded version in the person of the RD-33MK. But the main difference of the new MiG from the basic version and various modifications of the 90's was the on-board electronics, which was revolutionary by the standards of Russia. The MiG-35 is the first Russian multifunctional fighter, which was equipped (or, let's say, very much wanted to be equipped) with an onboard radar with active phased antenna array (AFAR). It is about the "Beetle-A". We are not going to talk in detail about the benefits of AFAR, however, this technology gives an almost complete superiority in terms of quality over radar of obsolete types, for example, radar with passive phased antenna array, which, in particular, is equipped with Su-35С. This concerns, first of all, reliability, which is incomparably higher for a radar with AFAR: it is very difficult to disable all receiving and transmitting elements.





That is why radar with AFAR installed on the Su-57 and that is why the most developed countries have long been equipped with their own radar fighter of this type, despite their high cost. In this regard, there are no complaints about the MiG-35.

However, not everything is so smooth. If we summarize the available data, we can conclude that the radar with AFAR was offered only to the Indians under the MMRCA tender: India eventually refused the Russian machine. But the "native" Air Force can get a version of the aircraft, equipped with an archaic radar station "Zhuk-M", which has a slit antenna array, which can hardly meet modern requirements.

You can not please fans of the MiG-35 and the number of purchased vehicles. In August, 2018, it became known that the Air Force should receive, within the framework of the contract, six two-seater MiG-XNUMHUB and single-seat MiG-35С. On May 8, 35, an informed source told Interfax that the Russian Defense Ministry would receive at least six MiG-2019 fighters annually. However, if there are no specific agreements, this information is not valid. Talk about "mass deliveries of the MiG-35" is about the same as the project itself.



Finally, it is worth turning to the most important thing - the reasons why the Russian military do not buy an airplane. And this is not only about radar stations. Everything is somewhat more complicated.

Flying in a dream, not waking


“I would say that this is a new aircraft that surpasses our foreign competitors,” Ilya Tarasenko, general director of the Mikoyan firm, said recently in an interview. The director general prudently did not name specific machines that, according to him, are superior to the brainchild of the MiG. If for Russia the plane, as we already said, is really innovative, then, to put it mildly, it is difficult to surprise Europe, the USA or China. European fighters of the 4 ++ generation (the same one to which MiG belongs) - the Typhoon and Rafale - have long had a radar with an active phased antenna array. And Americans can boast not only the most advanced radar, but also stealth, which neither the MiG-29 nor the 35 has.

And how does the car look on the background of the new brainchild of Sukhoi? Russia still does not have a single serial Su-57, but purely formally, its superiority over the MiG is complete. This applies to literally everything: speed, flight range, stealth indicators, combat load. On-board electronics: Su-57 radar with AFAR has 1526 receiving-transmitting modules, while Beetle-A has received 680 MRP (however, this is about early modification).

The attempts of some experts to pass the MiG-35 for a “cheap lightweight fighter” look rather strange. MiG-35 can be called whatever you like, but only not "easy" and, even more so, not "cheap." The mass of the empty MiG-35 is significantly greater than the mass of the empty F-15C, which many in Russia refer to as "heavy" fighters. The price of the MiG-35 is not exactly known, but considering the relatively modern on-board electronics, it is unlikely to be much lower than that of the Su-35С.

In general, it is high time to abandon the division of fighters into "light" and "heavy." Any modern fighter aircraft is by default an ultra-expensive machine that has a very solid mass. Just look at the French Rafale or American F-35. Here you can argue and recall the Chinese Chengdu J-10, but it is most appropriate to consider it as a transitional plane under conditions when the country (China) did not have the opportunity to create an analogue of the Su-27 or F-15. Now such opportunities already exist.



Attack without clones


In one of his past materials, the author tried to give a modest assessment of the current state of the fleet of fighters of the Russian Aerospace Forces, or to be more precise, I tried to make out such a crucial question for modern Air Force as unification. It is appropriate to give an illustrative example. As it is known, all three versions of F-35 - F-35A, F-35B and F-35С - have a degree of unification approximately 80%. The most important thing is that cars are equipped with practically identical engines and identical radars.

What do we see by the example of the Air and Space Forces of Russia? The military went a rather strange way by purchasing large batches of Su fighters having the same purpose, but completely different sets of on-board electronics. And in general, differing just as much as airplanes made on one basis (in our case, Su-27) can differ. In general, it is rather difficult to understand why Su-30CM was purchased in parallel with Su-35С, which, among other things, seems to be a much more modern machine. After all, Su-30CM is in a broad sense simply a “Russified” version of a far from new Su-30МКИ. And we are silent about the Su-27СМ3, Su-30М2 and MiG-29СМТ.



However, in spite of everything, it is absolutely clear that the Air Force will not refuse from the previously concluded contracts. But to abandon the MiG-35 is possible, and it would be the most sensible solution. It should be repeated: this car has no objective advantages over its analogues, except, perhaps, a more advanced radar. However, Su-35C and Su-30CM have a very large modernization potential in terms of avionics, so that it is unlikely that Sukhoy will not be able to catch up. Especially since the first serial Su-57, which (in theory) can be so "liked" by the military, should be born soon, so that they will refuse from further purchases of fourth-generation fighters. It has to be said that ideally it should have happened. But this is the ideal. In practice, any new aircraft needs many years of refinement, which is clearly seen in the example of the F-35.



“Su-35 purchases will continue after the completion of the current contract, an increase in the order for Su-57 will not affect this in any way,” RIA said recently “News"A source in the Russian Defense Ministry. The coexistence of generation fighters 4 ++ and the fifth generation can not be called the Russian "know-how." It would be appropriate to recall the idea of ​​Americans buying F-15X in parallel with F-35. But, again, this in no way testifies in favor of the new brainchild of the MiG.
234 comments
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  1. +29
    12 July 2019 05: 43
    There is one caveat. All Su are produced at the plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. We will not recall the Su-34, which is being built in Novosibirsk, since the defense order is almost completed there. Rhetorical question: what if tomorrow is a war or at least a complication of the international situation? And the "adversary" will put out of action this only enterprise by even an elementary sabotage? Komsomolsk is within reach for the means of destruction of the United States, Japan, and China, no matter how friendly it is now ... And there is also the Trans-Siberian Railway, in addition, through which components are delivered to Komsomolsk? Who will then repair all the Su and release new ones? So from this point of view, the presence of a second fighter for the Russian Aerospace Forces is a blessing and a necessity. The presence of Yak and La in the Great Patriotic War was not a disadvantage. The USA now has the F-22, F-35, not to mention the F-15 and F-16 of various modifications.
    1. +24
      12 July 2019 06: 16
      Su-30MK assembled at the Irkutsk Aviation Plant.

      So you are a little mistaken about "all eggs in one basket". smile
      1. +15
        12 July 2019 08: 01
        One and a half years of work at this plant .... At that runway ....
        1. +4
          12 July 2019 18: 14
          Author, decide? - You can’t have 2 opinions, except for Janus!
          Quote: Ilya Legat
          And Americans can boast not only the most advanced Radar but also stealth, which no nor MiG-29, no 35th.

          Quote: Ilya Legat
          So far, Russia does not have a single serial Su-57, however, purely formal, its superiority over the MiG is complete. This applies to literally everything: speed, flight range, stealth indicatorscombat load. On-board electronics: Su-57 radar with AFAR has 1526 receiving and transmitting modules, while Zhuk-A received 680 RPMs (however, we are talking about an early modification).

          Ilya, they usually write not about the early modification, but about the one that is installed on the Mig-35 ... Otherwise, the comparison does not make sense!
          And the US radar is not the most advanced ... Do not write about what you do not know!
          1. -3
            12 July 2019 19: 59
            Quote: SETSET
            And the radar in the United States is not the most advanced ...

            And who, interestingly, has a more advanced radar on serial machines, such as F22 and F35?
            1. +3
              12 July 2019 20: 46
              KrokodilGena, radar with AFAR H036 "Belka" on the pre-production Su-57 (produced 12 copies) surpasses the AN / APG-77 radar
              (F-22), AN / APG-81 (F-35), especially in the range of detection of air targets ... Soon it will be in the series - the decision has been made.
              1. -1
                13 July 2019 22: 52
                Still believe in fairy tales?
              2. 0
                14 July 2019 01: 41
                Yes, yes, it will, of course, and already surpasses!))) I’m actually talking about real specimens, on SERIAL MACHINES !!! spoke, not statements. For voicing the facts of cons, for fantasy pluses, what kind of nonsense?
                1. +1
                  14 July 2019 01: 49
                  KrokodilGena, read my comment carefully. Or do you not understand the meaning of Russian words? Maybe with your knowledge you can refute my saying about the superiority of the N036 radar station over the US radar station of F-22 and F-35 aircraft in terms of detection range?
                  About the minuses and pluses - this is not for me!
                  1. -3
                    14 July 2019 02: 05
                    N036 radar on which aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces is installed ?? Who and when saw the work of this radar ?? The operation of the F-35 radar can be seen on the network, for example, the image of equipment on the ground from a distance of 200 km, which is better than some video signals. On a non-existent radar you can assign as many numbers as you wish, etc., to ascribe, this will not change reality.

                    At the expense of minuses, it’s not a claim to you, you answered normally, or not a claim at all, it’s just strange sometimes.
              3. +1
                24 July 2019 15: 22
                Superior in theory. Improvements to the calculated indicators will take another time. And in large quantities (20-30pcs) it will definitely not be in the next 10-15 years. Unlike hundreds of 22nd and 35th.
                There is nothing to be done: different industrial capacities and sizes of economies.
          2. -1
            12 July 2019 20: 20
            Eeee, and me for what ...?
            1. +1
              12 July 2019 20: 28
              Dzungar! This is not for you, but for Ilya Legat - addressed to the author of the article ... sorry.
        2. +1
          13 July 2019 16: 36
          It is in this context that the author needs to look at the problem of replacing aerospace aircraft. You look at the prospect of 10-15 years and see that if only the Su-35 is produced, then the VKS will simply be halved. Therefore, it is better to have 200-300 "bad" but modern aircraft than to get a donut hole.
      2. +7
        12 July 2019 08: 07
        Correct remark. And precisely because the Irkutsk plant cannot make the Su-35S, the Moscow Oblast purchases Su-30MK from it. And rightly so, in every sense.
        1. +1
          12 July 2019 08: 33
          He can do it, but the Su-30MK and Su-35 are tactically different planes. The Su-35 is more of a fighter for gaining superiority, and the Su-30MK is a longer-range fighter thanks to the co-pilot.
          1. +7
            12 July 2019 16: 40
            Sorry sirs, Moscow Region is purchasing SM, which is produced in Irkutsk. MK in various variations of the MCA / MKI (modernized commercial)
            1. +5
              12 July 2019 16: 48
              Sorry, wrong.
      3. -14
        12 July 2019 09: 52
        If it was wrong, then not much)) Anyway, we will remain in this situation without Su-35 and Su-57
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. +3
        13 July 2019 11: 43
        This does not change the essence of the issue, MiG machines must also be developed and produced, another question is which of them should be purchased by the Ministry of Defense for the needs of the Russian Air Force, and which ones exclusively for export, I do not argue that the MiG-35 may no longer be up to date the required level, but no one will argue that our aerospace forces need high-altitude air intercept systems based on the MiG-31BM, so I think that the competence of the MiGs in this direction must be supported and financially supported in the creation of a new high-altitude interceptor MiG-41 On which the MiG Design Bureau is already actively working at the moment, and regarding the MiG-35, we can say that the project needs to be thoroughly finalized, brought to the required condition and entered the Southeast Asian market with an already completely modified aircraft, and offered it to India once again. as a new product, marketers should also work actively here, and of course the prices for the final production aircraft should be adequate andreal, and not sucked out of the thumb "effective managers" who are entrenched in all enterprises of the military-industrial complex. After all, they were able to agree on the Su-57, why is it impossible to agree on the same price reduction for MiG aircraft?
        1. -2
          13 July 2019 15: 55
          Quote: sgrabik
          This does not change the essence of the issue.

          Excuse me, what does not change the essence of the issue?
          Quote: sgrabik
          I do not argue that the MiG-35 may not be enough

          Quote: sgrabik
          VKS are required for high-altitude air interception systems based on the MiG-31BM

          Quote: sgrabik
          to provide them with financial support in creating a new high-altitude interceptor MiG-41

          People mixed up in a bunch, horses ... smile
          Naturally, I am for the production of the MiG-35 and PAK DP. Only now there is no money, but the MiG is holding on.
        2. 0
          13 July 2019 20: 07
          Quote: sgrabik
          our VKS needs MiG-31BM high-altitude air interception systems, therefore I believe that the competence of MiG officers in this direction should be supported and financially supported in creating a new high-altitude interceptor MiG-41
          What tasks can the MiG-31 not solve the Su-57? He has a cruising supersonic and a powerful radar and a long-range missile.
        3. +1
          14 July 2019 18: 44
          Quote: sgrabik
          why can’t you just as agree on a reduction in the price of MiG aircraft.

          It is practically in Moscow. And there the menagers are the most greedy angry
    2. +12
      12 July 2019 10: 46
      Quote: avia12005
      Rhetorical question: what if tomorrow is a war or at least a complication of the international situation? And the "adversary" will put out of action this only enterprise by even an elementary sabotage? Komsomolsk is within reach for the means of destruction of the United States, Japan, and China, no matter how friendly it is now ... And there is also the Trans-Siberian Railway, in addition, through which components are delivered to Komsomolsk? Who will then repair all the Su and release new ones? So from this point of view, the presence of a second fighter for the Russian Aerospace Forces is a blessing and a necessity.

      Can it be cheaper and better to build another aircraft plant? How to produce unnecessary aircraft.
    3. 0
      12 July 2019 10: 54
      Rhetorical question: what if tomorrow is a war or at least a complication of the international situation? And the "adversary" will disable this only enterprise by at least an elementary sabotage?

      And how many plants at the MIG Design Bureau capable of collecting Migi-35? 10, 20, 50?
    4. +5
      12 July 2019 11: 17
      and there is also the F-18, like the A-10s are still flying, which are not completely withdrawn, but no longer produced. There are enough of their jokes.
      I've often read such things, they say the Americans are all cool with unification, especially in the Navy. There is pure Ticanderog, Arly Burke, San Antonio, Nitz / Ford and the Premier League. In the Air Force they also have the type of norms, because as the article says: unification by F-35 -80%, which is very good.
      But I somehow went a little deeper into their network of special services. and there it’s just tin happening. There, 100500 services that duplicate themselves, half do not know what the neighbors are doing and sometimes do the same job in parallel, with separately allocated funding of billions. So everyone has their own headache.
      We probably need to go this way, where we have the Su-30SM, Su-35s, Su-27SM3, Su-30mk2, etc., to really get to the Su-57 and that's it.
      I absolutely agree with the author on the unnecessary separation of light and heavy fighters. This is a relic of the past, as in World War II, the tanks were divided into light, medium and heavy. They left this and have to go to LA. For me, a huge surprise was that the F-15 is lighter than the MiG-35. it's generally tin. In short, we need a full-fledged, good, long-term order for the Su-57 and not from one plant, but from several. The price will fall immediately per unit of output, we will leave the hodgepodge in combat units.
      1. +13
        12 July 2019 11: 57
        Mig 35 military is not needed simply because there is a relatively inexpensive full-fledged serial su30cm. He is just a relatively inexpensive front-line fighter. SU35 is a fighter for gaining superiority in the air. But instantly we need export orders, and who will buy the plane if it is not in service at home? So, the MO will have to buy a batch for itself. Not because it is needed, but because otherwise the aircraft will not have export potential.
        Su57, in my opinion, will be purchased in the future instead of su35. After deployment of the Su57 Island, it will also go mainly for export. If, nevertheless, they decide to buy mig35 in serious quantities, then it will be necessary to reduce purchases of su30cm, which has been worked out in pr-ve and is simply better.
        1. -4
          12 July 2019 16: 39
          Quote: g1v2
          But instantly we need export orders, and who will buy the plane if it is not in service at home? So, the MO will have to buy a batch for itself.

          Those. to suck in someone an illiquid asset - buy yourself first. It is tempting. Although it seems to me that there are no fools in the arms market
        2. +6
          12 July 2019 17: 35
          We had to communicate in the 1993 year with pilots from Lipetsk in Domne when retraining from Mig-23MLD to Mig-29. A cup of tea started talking about who is who in an air battle between Su-27 and Mig-29? The answer was this: with an equal level of preparation in close combat, Mig will do Su. It said the flyers who flew then and those and others. So here ...
          1. 0
            13 July 2019 09: 38
            On the real comparison of the MiG-29 and Su-27 pilots here: https://topwar.ru/64207-v-teni-bolshogo-brata-o-protivostoyanii-mig-29-i-su-27.html
          2. +3
            13 July 2019 20: 09
            Read about the war of Ethiopia and Eritrea (it is the Su war against MiG). Su won, in my opinion even in the dry.
          3. +2
            13 July 2019 23: 31
            The key here is in close combat. And before it is necessary to live a moment longer. And the fact that the su27 has 10 suspension points, and for the 29cm - 6 instant, it greatly reduces the chances of the instant surviving to close combat. My IMHO.
      2. +10
        12 July 2019 12: 41
        Quote: silver_roman
        I absolutely agree with the author on the unnecessary separation of light and heavy fighters

        That is, if you need to bring half a ton of sand, then in the absence of a truck like UAZ - a tadpole, you will go to a quarry on KamAZ?
        A light front-line fighter is needed. But it is light, not one and a half. The MIG should be designed so that it is lighter than the existing one, cheaper in construction and operation, possibly single-engine.
        1. +15
          12 July 2019 16: 41
          Quote: Gritsa
          A light front-line fighter is needed. But it is light, not one and a half.

          Develop a small radar for him, small rackets and put a small pilot
          1. +3
            13 July 2019 00: 29
            Quote: Winnie76
            Quote: Gritsa
            A light front-line fighter is needed. But it is light, not one and a half.

            Develop a small radar for him, small rackets and put a small pilot

            That is how
            1. 0
              13 July 2019 00: 31
              Quote: Gritsa
              That is how

              It will cost a lot of money, and the possibilities for small radar and rackets will remain small
        2. 0
          13 July 2019 00: 26
          Quote: Gritsa
          A light front-line fighter is needed. But it is light, not one and a half. The MIG should be designed so that it is lighter than the existing one, cheaper in construction and operation, possibly single-engine.

          need to look at the possibilities (engines)
          and competitors (cars)
          1. 0
            13 July 2019 11: 12
            need to look at the possibilities (engines

            Why look at them? single-engine aircraft based on the engine from the SU-35 or Su-57 ...
            1. +1
              13 July 2019 20: 12
              The trouble is that now the engine is not the most expensive system in an airplane. Saving on one engine fundamentally (twice) to reduce the price will not work. Or it’s not a fighter, but a flying target.
              1. +1
                13 July 2019 21: 10
                But you get cheaper engine by increasing the series.

                Well, if we proceed from the fact that it will not be possible to fundamentally reduce the cost while maintaining combat effectiveness, then we come to the conclusion that LFI is not needed.

                And based on the fact that for a light aircraft you need to develop a separate series of engines ... well, this new aircraft is much simpler and not to do, but concentrate on the SU line
                1. -2
                  14 July 2019 01: 48
                  If you do not take Soviet developments, did you create many engines from scratch in Russia?
                  1. +1
                    14 July 2019 10: 55
                    And what does this have to do with the issue under discussion? AL-41F1S for example?
                    In the USSR, if you look at it, too, not so much was created "from scratch." Mankind created a wheel from scratch, and it was really "from scratch".
                2. 0
                  15 July 2019 11: 17
                  Quote: alexmach
                  But you get cheaper engine by increasing the series.

                  did not catch the logic ... suppose the country's need for 100 boards so you need 200 engines with a 2-engine aircraft or 100 with a single-engine ...
                  Quote: alexmach
                  we come to the conclusion that LFI is not needed.

                  MO has already come to this.
                  Quote: alexmach
                  well, it’s so much easier to not do this new plane but to concentrate on the SU line

                  MO is doing so.
                  Quote: alexmach
                  for a light aircraft, you need to develop a separate series of engines ...

                  can be taken from the "caliber", as the Americans did when designing the F5 tiger.
                  1. 0
                    15 July 2019 11: 32
                    didn’t catch the logic ... suppose the country's need for 100 boards t

                    100 boards regardless of type?
                    Suppose you need 100 heavy hardeners and another 100 light.
                    100 heavy is 200 engines.
                    In the case of the Miga 100 other engines, 200 light ones, and in the case of a single-engine aircraft, an additional 100 engines unified with a heavy fighter.

                    can be taken from the "caliber", as the Americans did when designing the F5 tiger.

                    I suspect that this engine doesn’t have enough power for this plane
            2. 0
              15 July 2019 11: 07
              Quote: alexmach
              Why look at them? single-engine aircraft based on the engine from the SU-35 or Su-57 ...

              here C54 / 55/56 something didn’t annoy .... and, they say, J10 does not reach the 4th generation fighter ... they say it 3 + / 3 ++ ........
        3. 0
          16 July 2019 10: 25
          if the cost of shipping sand in KAMAZ will not greatly exceed the similar cost of KAMAZ, then I will save on the purchase of UAZ.
          The fact of the matter is that if we had an analogue of the F-16, that would be the case. I read a comment from either our military or designer: they say that we do not have such a reliable engine as the F-16, so we have to reserve it.
          1. 0
            18 July 2019 12: 44
            This is completely not literate. No offense, but it’s immediately obvious that you didn’t have either one and you didn’t set such tasks for them or the company. But they are ready to advise.
            The question in reality is posed in a completely different way. Namely, in the cost of operation. If you take 1-2 times, you can save on UAZ. And when there is a full-fledged work, then the cost of the UAZ can pay off in a few months. In this case, the resource of large Kamaz will not be spent.
            As far as I understand in aviation, this is even more noticeable, since there the cost of maintenance is much higher, and the time to repair is much lower. By the way, in the same USA there are several light fighter programs that will be cheaper to operate and easier to design.
    5. +1
      12 July 2019 12: 36
      Only Su-35 and Su-57 are produced there. Well, and even Superhat 100 (pah, what an enemy name).
      And the components can also be supplied according to BAM along the Amur River.
    6. 0
      12 July 2019 12: 43
      You explain it to Serdyukov. His task is to optimize the aviation industry and sell everything that is possible.
      1. +12
        12 July 2019 16: 59
        For some reason, the author does not write about AFAR problems. Overheating, cost, weight and detection of an object having such a radar. The Chinese boasted that they created air-cooled, but the power of such a radar is low.
        So far, only Americans have put AFAR. Europeans only demonstrated, but there is no evidence that Eurofighter and Rafali have begun to install them en masse. Therefore, the author’s statement that they have been installed abroad for a long time does not correspond to reality.
        The advantage of the MiG-35 compared to the Su family in the cost of maintenance. The second thing is that for many countries, Su is simply redundant. Take Azerbaijan, which, like Kazakhstan, is interested in MiG. On such an area of ​​the country, the MiG-35 will be enough to fulfill the tasks of a fighter-bomber. Or take Syria - there the MiG could solve most of the problems. Thus, the commercial success of the MiG may be higher than Su.
        Some facts are also interesting. Poland, having purchased the F-16, refuses to modernize them, but had plans for 2014. modernize the MiG-29. Why's that? After all, you can put AFAR on the F-16? German pilots (GDR) on the MiG-29 successfully opposed the F-14,16,15,18, 29, XNUMX, XNUMX in training battles. But most of the data is "erased" from the Internet. French, British, etc. also "tested" in training battles MiG-XNUMX, but for some reason the data are not given. Why's that?
        And finally. He served at the Union airfield, which served the school for allies from around the world. And inspectors from these countries came there. So a German colonel from the GDR said the following about the MiG-29: "Das ist fantastish." I heard this with my own ears, sitting next to the RP on the tablet. hi
        1. +1
          12 July 2019 17: 16
          "So far, only the Americans have put massively AFAR. The Europeans have only demonstrated, but there is no evidence that they began to install them on Eurofighters and Rafali" ////
          -----
          AFARs put everything. This is the standard. Both Europeans and Chinese. Moreover, the Chinese serially put AFARs
          even on cheap 4th generation export aircraft.
          1. 0
            12 July 2019 17: 25
            I have not seen such information.
            1. +6
              12 July 2019 17: 37
              Der Spiegel: "German Eurofighter fighters are unfit for military operations due to blindness." Article from 03.05.18/4/82. In fact, only XNUMX of XNUMX vehicles can be used in combat operations. This is what I read.
              Alexey, for foreign customers "any whim for your money." But how do these AFARs work there? hi
              The author does not see the difference between the tasks for Su and MiG.
              1. -1
                12 July 2019 20: 05
                The article you cited is not about radars, but
                optical infrared devices. For close range fighting.
                Old Typhoons upgrade to AFAR CAPTOR-E.
                This is a serial radar. But the alteration is delayed, as usual, in Europe.
                1. +1
                  12 July 2019 20: 50
                  Where did you read for this upgrade? They have been talking about this since 15g., But only while they scratch their tongues.
                  If AFAR stood, then you can do without IR sensors that work at close distances. On the F-22, as far as I remember, there are none at all. And the article for 18 years .. Consequently, they are not yet available. Well, maybe on those 4 cars. And you call this "standard"? hi
                  Alexei, the installation of AFAR will lead to a change in the center of gravity of the car, will shift to the bow. A fighter weighs 11 tons. This is not a heavy bomber for you. What will they do with this?
                  1. +1
                    12 July 2019 21: 14
                    About the Chinese AFAR. For export, they offer the JF-17. AFAR was made for it only in 16-17. And only at the end of last year they offered JF-17M Block3 with a similar radar (contract with Myanmar). The cost is over 30 million. Note that the preliminary design phase ended in early 18 .. And this is the "standard" and has long been established?
                    And another point, the cost of JF-17 Block1 is 15-20 million, Block2 is 20-25. And with AFAR Block 3 already for 30 million dollars .. This is about the cost of the radar with AFAR. hi
                    It is still not entirely clear whether Pakistanis are installing AFARs on already purchased cars or they will only start with new cars.
                  2. -1
                    12 July 2019 21: 28
                    "If AFAR stood, then you can do without IR sensors" ////
                    ----
                    Here are those hello! The Su-57 has both an AFAR and an optical sight in front of
                    a cabin.
                    If AFARs are mass-produced and put on all NEW fighters
                    West and China, then I call it the standard.
                    And upgrades of old cars can be delayed.
                    1. +1
                      12 July 2019 22: 58
                      Well, hello. There are no IR sensors on the F-22. Then why do the Germans themselves speak for the blindness of their Eurofighter? In order to stick a new unit, it is necessary to redesign the plane.
                      Alexei, you bring the facts. And I to you mine. The scandal between Austria and Airbus for Eurofighter. The Austrians demand 1,1 billion compensation. The continuation of the story happened in 17g ..
                      Eurofighter. Where are cars with AFAR? While they are not visible.
                      Rafale. December 7, 2011 French Defense Minister Gerard Longuet said that Rafale's production will be curtailed after the delivery of 180 cars (only to foreign customers). A AFAR was made only in 2012. The start of operation began in 2002. And up to 12g. delivered more than 100 cars - there is no AFAR - in 2009 ordered 60 cars of the old series. With the latest aircraft, the price soared from 85 million to 120 million. Redesign and new units have affected the cost of the machines. At 18g. France had 152 cars and is in no hurry to order up to 180 cars. It’s strange.
                      Grippen AFAR has only an E series. But its deliveries were supposed to begin in 18g. All foreign customers of AFAR do not have (A, B, C, D series) - Hungary, Czech Republic, South Africa, Thailand. Until recently, the Swedes AFAR did not have their own.
                      China. How much did they release the J-20 and J-31? This is a mystery. The big series is not visible. About JF-17M Block3 is only now ready for the series. Old cars (Blok2i3) AFAR are unlikely to receive.
                      Findings. While this is a piece of machine. Rafal, perhaps, and that is not entirely clear. Therefore, he wrote that in large quantities AFAR is not yet in the EU and China. The reason is the high cost, in my opinion. The author writes that the radar with AFAR has long been installed abroad. And I argue that this is not so.
                      1. +3
                        12 July 2019 23: 08
                        You described European problems: everything is going slowly and with a creak.
                        Correctly. But AFARs are developed. And these are not prototypes.
                        A whole factory has been built in China, producing only AFARs for
                        all types of their aircraft. The Americans - mass production of F-35
                        with AFAR. There is no alternative. I mean, Russia should not look at
                        the slowness of Europe, and the speed of China and the United States. Otherwise it will be tight
                        both with the defense of their country and with the export of fighters.
                      2. +1
                        13 July 2019 15: 33
                        Alex, decide. Then you write that everyone puts AFAR and this is the standard. That everything goes slowly and with a creak, and only developed. Do you feel the difference?
                        It’s not enough to develop, it’s necessary to stick it, but this is a change in the weight of the aircraft, and redesign and updating of the software is necessary. That is what it is about. Only on Rafale from Europeans we see him, but they are extremely few. From strength, maximum, regiment. It’s a little expensive or I don’t know yet. But 180 Rafales are not in the Air Force.
                        China declares a lot. Either there are AFAR, they are developing air-cooled. We must wait for him to stand on combat vehicles. Meanwhile, China buys Su-35, although there are J-20 and J-31 (they have not yet been taken into service - see the air force of the PRC). Where is the logic? The basis of the Chinese Air Force is the Su-27 family. Of these, only the J-11D clone has AFAR - according to their own statements - but there are few of them, this is the most recent modernization. ALL!!! At the end of last year, they put on a J-17, but how many of them are unknown in the PRC Air Force - I suspect that they are not there yet - too little time has passed ?! hi
                      3. nks
                        -1
                        13 July 2019 15: 27
                        and in the EU and China, but not all
                      4. +1
                        13 July 2019 15: 37
                        And on the MiG-29 they put AFAR. In 2013-2014 Phazatron installed on two cars. But the series is not visible. Let's wait.
                        Alexei writes that this is a standard option on foreign cars. I don’t see her. hi
                      5. nks
                        -1
                        13 July 2019 15: 42
                        Specifically, now all Russian MFIs do not have serial afar and, for Mig-29, not a single working AFAR is even on a flying test board. In the EU and the PRC they are (AFAR on combat sides)
                      6. +2
                        13 July 2019 16: 24
                        The controversy is not about what AFAR is or not. And how Alexey and the author claim that this is a standard option, which has long been standard installed on foreign machines.
                        By the way, the French had to modernize their AFAR. The contract was signed in 2014. and only at the end of 18g. a decision was made to install it on previous series. hi
          2. +2
            13 July 2019 12: 00
            Do not carry this nonsense, European planes have modern stations with AFAR so far only on exhibition models and not so long ago the French began to install them on RAFAL, on the Typhoons they did not exist, so still no !!! I do not argue that the radar with AFAR in a modern aircraft is already practically a necessity, but there are no standards in the West on this subject.
            1. nks
              -1
              13 July 2019 15: 26
              More precisely, all serial rafals from 2013 come with afar (+ pre-blocks are upgraded), but there really are no afar on the typhoon.
              1. +2
                13 July 2019 16: 11
                Rafal's modernization was approved only in 2018. in the month of October. 144 combat vehicles must pass it. Until the end of the year, it was planned to improve only 4 cars. hi
        2. -3
          14 July 2019 01: 54
          Quote: Kasym
          Some facts are also interesting.

          What you call facts about the Mig-29 is not facts, but all kinds of tales. The facts are real military operations, for example, the battle of the Serbs on the MiG-29 and the Dutch on the F-16 during the war in Yugoslavia. In my opinion it was 9-0, not in favor of the Serbs on the Mig-29.
          1. +3
            14 July 2019 13: 18
            Crowd alone, with the support of AWACS. Good example. laughing . I’m not even going to discuss this.
    7. +1
      12 July 2019 17: 48
      Quote: avia12005
      So from this point of view, the presence of a second fighter for the Russian Aerospace Forces is a blessing and a necessity

      But what, Mikoyan’s factory is out of reach of weapons? Strange logic. Here you can still compare the rate of release of aircraft into the Great Patriotic War now. If a war starts or a war, it will be almost impossible to replenish the fleet ... The assembly cycle and cost are too long. Although the war is long won't last ...
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. +1
      12 July 2019 22: 23
      if tomorrow is a war or at least a complication of the international situation? And the "adversary" will disable this only enterprise by at least an elementary sabotage?

      So can master the production of Su-35 at other plants?
    10. +1
      13 July 2019 16: 00
      A war with anyone - with the Baltic states with Ukraine, Japan, maybe Mongolia or Georgia - all that is now is more than enough for everyone - and at the same time.
  2. +30
    12 July 2019 05: 49
    Based on the opinions of the amateur, I ask, but what about the competition between the design bureaus? Yak have training, Sukhoi have heavy, Mig have light. And so there is no competition between them. I understand the business is expensive, but the sky of war is worth it. In every war film, there are episodes of attack by military columns and refugees in pieces and messers. The Mikoyanites had their own competencies and developments, unique in their own way. Is it all scrapped? Without the development of new aircraft, he would die. Mig 35 may become a stepping stone between the new aircraft of Mikoyan. Aircraft schools are in themselves intellectual value. Do not stagnate them aimlessly.
    1. +6
      12 July 2019 06: 55
      Based on the opinions of the amateur, I ask, but what about the competition between the design bureaus? Yak have training, Sukhoi have heavy, Mig have light

      So there is no easy moment, there is a modernization of the Mig-29 which we can honestly say and during the first flights it looked faded against the background of the Su-27 ... If the mum had collected something similar to f-16 or J-10, then another thing . And so what's the point of adopting an aircraft that initially loses to competitors, but costs no less than the latter?
      1. +11
        12 July 2019 11: 56
        Quote: armata_armata
        And so what's the point of adopting an aircraft that initially loses to competitors, but costs no less than the latter?


        Buying 6 MiGs a year looks like "maintaining the pants" of the famous design bureau.
        It is easy to lose competence; it will take more than one decade to develop.
        Fighter design bureaus should not relax without competition.
        1. +2
          12 July 2019 12: 01
          Fighter KBs should not relax without competition

          Excuse me, what kind of competition? MIG for a minute could not survive the 90s and create something competitive for export except modernization 29 ... Dead KB in fact, with whom can it compete?
          Or do you propose that the design bureau could live buying a plane that does not meet modern requirements? Well, let's hack the Su-57 program and buy it instantly, so the partners will laugh
          1. +7
            12 July 2019 12: 43
            Quote: armata_armata
            Excuse me, what kind of competition? MIG for a minute could not survive the 90s and create something competitive for export except modernization 29 ... Dead KB in fact, with whom can it compete?
            Or do you propose that the design bureau could live buying a plane that does not meet modern requirements? Well, let's hack the Su-57 program and buy it instantly, so the partners will laugh


            You are guided by momentary conditions - penny savings on the designers of their experience and competence.

            Do not forget that only 5-6 countries can make planes of this level, and some do it together - a chipper ...

            The development issue is a financing issue, MiG Design Bureau can make a modern aircraft - there would be money.
            But the state is saving on the development of several fighter jets (which is economically rational), but at the same time it does not allow the design bureau to die - even so.
            You can lose the competence of a unique aviation design bureau in a couple of years, restore it - you will need thirty years and part of the design school, methods for calculating structural elements, will be lost forever.
            Future designers will have to go through already passed errors, but not passed on to new generations.
            The price of errors in aviation is billions of banknotes and dozens of test lives!
            1. +3
              12 July 2019 12: 52
              A development issue - a financing issue, MiG Design Bureau can make a modern aircraft - there would be money

              Who is stopping, the armament market is open, make the plane you need in this market and sell it, make dry money could you make it worse?
              Who apart from the design bureau itself is to blame for the fact that the Mig-35 is not relevant on the world stage?
              You can lose the competence of a unique aviation design bureau in a couple of years

              So wake up KB MIG already lost it back in the 90s of the last century
              You are guided by momentary conditions - penny savings on the designers of their experience and competence.
              I am guided by the real budget of the Ministry of Defense, in which they barely scraped money for 76 su-57 ... Do you propose to abandon this contract and purchase the Mig-35?
              1. +3
                12 July 2019 13: 03
                Quote: armata_armata
                Who is stopping, the armament market is open, make the plane you need in this market and sell it, make dry money could you make it worse?
                Who apart from the design bureau itself is to blame for the fact that the Mig-35 is not relevant on the world stage?
                У


                :))
                You do not represent the structure of the defense industry
                KB does not make a profit in your pocket - the prerogative of Rosoboronexport :))

                And besides the MiG design bureau that they could only modify the MiG-29, the USSR is to blame, which laid the concept of a "light" fighter exactly as it laid down.
                But the KB did not have and does not have the means to go further than finalizing the existing MiG-29.

                I repeat - in the foreign market, the state does not benefit from competition between the two design bureaus - since sales are carried out through the state in the person of Rosoboronexport. Both the Sukhoi Design Bureau and the MiG Design Bureau - eat from the same counter and do not share the profit from export orders - they are budgeted by the state.
                1. +2
                  12 July 2019 13: 15
                  KB does not make a profit in your pocket - the prerogative of Rosoboronexport :))

                  Imagine, but he sponsors those whose products are bought, and if they buy dry, what is the point of sponsoring MIG?
                  And besides the MiG design bureau that they could only modify the MiG-29, the USSR is to blame, which laid the concept of a "light" fighter exactly as it laid down.

                  Oh, it now turns out that the USSR is still to blame for all the misfortunes of the MIG, and who forgive me prevented me from taking the same glider 21/23 and finalizing it under the current realities, all the more so when back in the early 90s there was noticeable demand for single-engine light fighters? And forgive me in this niche they didn’t intersect with the dry side ... But they didn’t feed 29, brought his weight practically to a heavy fighter, and at the same time they couldn’t bring the performance characteristics to an acceptable level and now they demand to take their miracle into a series that would do so well already suffering the state’s defense.
                  I repeat - in the foreign market, the state does not benefit from competition between two design bureaus

                  I repeat there wouldn’t be competition on the foreign market if the MIG adhered to their concept and made light fighters, and not the Mig-35
                  1. +2
                    12 July 2019 14: 19
                    Quote: armata_armata
                    21/23 and finalize the current reality all the more so when back in the early 90s there was a noticeable demand for single-engine light fighters?


                    :))
                    Oh - you need to talk with pilots of single-engine fighters - they will explain the difference between them to you popularly. Ask what gazovki is and where they disappeared after switching to the MiG-29 Su-27, where the resource of the single-engine MiG-21 and MiG-23/27 went

                    With our engine building and reliability and the resource of power plants - single-engine, as a one-time.
                    1. +1
                      12 July 2019 16: 51
                      For some reason I think that you are wrong. As it turns out, our engines are very high in reliability. Well, in terms of efficiency, yes.
                      1. +6
                        12 July 2019 18: 47
                        Quote: Nikolai Balashov
                        As it turns out, our engines are very high in reliability.

                        I have to correct you - only the engines of the 4th generation aircraft - RD-33 (ed. 88) and their derivatives are excellent in reliability - they are on the MiG-29 and their successors, AL-31F (AL-41), which are on the SU -27 and and their successors. And the engines of the 3rd generation aircraft delivered a lot of headaches (and not only) to both the engineering and technical personnel, as they required increased attention. Moreover, 2/3 of the engine resource was spent ON EARTH, during maintenance - Every 10 hours of operation - gas, 25 hours - gas, 50 hours - routine work with gas, 100 hours - routine work with gas, 200 hours - routine with gas, 400 hours - routine work with a gas, 600 hours - routine work with a gas, if you do not take into account park days and targeted work. And the endless IAP ballots? And renewals? And the improvements? The pilot, while in the air, had to constantly keep in his head the remainder of the resource and the remainder of the resource for afterburners (God forbid, you will exceed it), deputy. according to the IAS, then he will remove the skin from the living for exceeding, and maybe remove from flights - exceeding the resource - almost an emergency! True, in combat conditions, many (correctly say - SOME) of these restrictions (but not all !!) were removed. I myself found (operated) the MiG-23 ML, MLD, and later - the MiG-29 series from 07 to 31, I had a chance to "climb" (without admission) and the MiG-29 SMT.
                    2. 0
                      12 July 2019 17: 16
                      Uh, where did the gazovks go?)
                      1. +2
                        15 July 2019 10: 32
                        Quote: pavlentiy
                        Uh, where did the gazovks go?)


                        More reliable engines of the RD-33 and AL-31F (AL-41) series have come - engine maintenance regulations have changed.
                        Since for a single-engine aircraft, engine failure is a loss of the aircraft, and for two-engine aircraft it is a flight accident, i.e. the task will not be completed, but the aircraft with a high degree of probability will return to the base and make a safe landing.
                        Accordingly, gazovki radically decreased by orders of magnitude.
              2. +3
                12 July 2019 13: 18
                Quote: armata_armata
                I am guided by the real budget of the Ministry of Defense, in which they barely scraped money for 76 su-57 ... You propose to abandon this contract and purchase a mig-35


                I propose to give freedom in the implementation of export contracts (i.e., its own sales network and not Rosoboronexport) and (seditiousness now I will say) to make it work with profit.
                And whatever they steal - 3-4 system-forming banks with state participation in the supervisory boards should be shareholders - they will monitor financial well-being and project financing.
                The state will have its share and will monitor the preservation of critical technologies and state secrets. Determine the rules of the game in the foreign market, in order to avoid internal corporate competition (so that there would be no unjustified dumping in the foreign market.

                But the state will never agree to this - keeping on a short chain of KB (on the budget), it remains the owner of technologies, secrets, can dictate a pricing policy on the foreign and, especially, on the domestic market - that is, "buy" from slaves "cheap" - let them plow for a penny and for an idea :)
                And we are - Soviet engineers - we are just interested in creating something new for state money :))
            2. -1
              12 July 2019 17: 59
              Quote: DimerVladimer
              You can lose the competence of a unique aviation design bureau in a couple of years, restore it - you will need thirty years and part of the design school, methods for calculating structural elements, will be lost forever.

              That is, you want to say that except for a moment, no one knows the methodology for calculating structural elements? How, then, did Su calculate and calculate ????
              This USSR could afford to contain dozens of design bureaus and make dozens of types of machines. In fact, the Air Force should have at least two spare parts stocks, and pilots are by no means universal
              1. +2
                15 July 2019 10: 49
                Quote: Pilat2009
                That is, you want to say that except for a moment, no one knows the methodology for calculating structural elements? How, then, did Su calculate and calculate ????


                The calculation methods in each KB are similar in terms of similar nodes, but each unique power element has its own methods and approximating (selected) coefficients that only this KB has and it happens that some "fixes" of the methods are paid by crashed planes or the lives of pilots.
                For example, the same MiG-25 logger in some subsonic modes claimed the lives of several combat pilots and a test pilot who intentionally repeated the modes and altitudes of loss of control of the MiG-25 and at the cost of his life determined the insidious mode (overcompensation of the differential stabilizer in transonic modes) - no calculations and purging models, did not produce results ... At the cost of three lives!

                There are general recommendations and techniques that have been developed by NASA or TsAGI - they are double-checked, refined and sometimes used in KB, because such organizations work with mathematical models and only the designer knows that this shelf needs to be strengthened, and here it is possible to facilitate chemical or EDM.
                That the part’s resource depends on vibration loads in a particular unit, plus corrosion protection and a lot of nuances that NASA and TsAGI do not own.
                Do not confuse applied and experimental calculation methods.
      2. 0
        12 July 2019 13: 49
        Quote: armata_armata
        If I instantly collected something similar to f-16 or J-10, then another thing.

        MiG35 surpasses the data of the machine ... but the MiG35 costs like SU35s .....
        1. +1
          13 July 2019 03: 07
          How can you know how much these cars cost? laughing
    2. +11
      12 July 2019 07: 04
      In our country, competition between design bureaus tends to be absurd. A prime example is the T-64, T-72, and T-80. Three essentially identical tanks with almost zero unification. And the geniuses from the Soviet Ministry of Defense, who adopted them at the same time.
    3. +3
      12 July 2019 07: 07
      All this is true, but I, also an amateur in this area, will still insert my "five cents". Probably the Migovites did not need to modernize the MiG-29, but create a completely different, new single-engine 5th generation machine. After all, when they began to modernize the MiG-29, it was clear that the time of this machine was already running out. The same time and resources had to be spent on a new aircraft, because the design bureau had its own competencies and developments (all MiGs, except for 25,29,31 were with one engine). For the same time, probably, it was possible to "add" the light 35th generation MiG-5, and not the upgraded 29th.
      1. +4
        12 July 2019 19: 23
        Quote: turcom
        Probably the migrants did not need to upgrade the MiG-29, but create a completely different, new 5-generation single-engine car.

        You just never (accidentally) tell a pilot that - they will beat you! When I was a specialist in electronic automation (ACS and navigation complex), I talked with the pilots - (I had this duty - to start the search for a malfunction by "interrogating" the pilot about the circumstances of its manifestation, external manifestations, its effect on piloting, then compare the information received with materials of objective control, thereby simplifying the process of establishing the nature of a possible malfunction, which, in combination, allows you to narrow the vast field of searching for a faulty unit and reduce the recovery time of the aircraft) - this is how the pilots honestly and directly said, "I know to the MiG-29 that I will ALWAYS return , having TWO engines underneath! " Does it make no difference to you whether a pilot returns after an engine damage or not? The most EXPENSIVE and PRECIOUS component of the combat flying complex is the FLYER! Only for the sake of preserving his life, (and just to increase the likelihood of his survival in an air battle and his combat mission), aircraft need to be equipped with multi-engine power plants! An airplane can be built in 7-9 weeks, and it takes only 10-12 years to GROW a good pilot (captain-major category) !! one school - 4 years, pulp and paper industry - 2 years, in the regiment, at least 5-6 years! And you would have to "save" everything on engines. If they had been, at least once, in the shoes of a technician of an aircraft that would launch a combat aircraft, they themselves would have wanted to "stick" a FEW of "spare" engines into the aircraft! It is easy to "bazaar" while lying on the couch! Serving is harder!
    4. +8
      12 July 2019 12: 47
      Yak has not only training (from military)

    5. +8
      12 July 2019 12: 53
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      Yak have training, Sukhoi have heavy, Mig have light.

      Mig has more than just lungs


    6. +8
      12 July 2019 12: 58
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      Yak have training, Sukhoi have heavy, Mig have light.

      Su is not only heavy



    7. +7
      12 July 2019 13: 01
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      Yak have training, Sukhoi have heavy, Mig have light.

      Even Tu doesn't have all the bombers


    8. +7
      12 July 2019 13: 03
      Quote: Ali Kokand
      Yak have training, Sukhoi have heavy, Mig have light.

      And Il also does not have all transporters.




      1. +3
        12 July 2019 17: 38
        good pictures! thank!
        1. +4
          13 July 2019 00: 35
          Quote: Old Bun
          good pictures! thank!

          You are welcome. Apparently, not in vain collected, since someone liked
          1. 0
            16 July 2019 19: 45
            I remember the old time when only by admission))))
    9. +1
      13 July 2019 12: 19
      I repeat once again, the MiGs have no one unrivaled competencies in high-speed high-speed interceptors, it’s stupid to argue about the need for such machines in our airborne forces, now the MiG design bureau is actively working on a new complex of high-altitude interceptors MiG-41, it is necessary to fully support the creation and the organization of mass production of this aircraft, and as regards the need to produce light fighters, I believe that they should be present in our VKS even in larger quantities than Su heavy fighters, but the question is whether the MiG-35 is a full-fledged light fighter, I think that with its two engines and mass-dimensional characteristics it is not such, the MiGs need to develop a lighter and smaller overall single-engine fighter, the issue price should also be much lower.
  3. +5
    12 July 2019 06: 10
    Mig 35 has a good export potential for owners of Mig and not only because the cost of a flight hour is declared as one of the cheapest - it is important both for customers and for themselves.

    It can be used as a tanker, which is also important in my opinion, especially if there is a hot phase, when it is clumsy and large or it’s not possible to lift it or it is very dangerous to do it, and in general it has suspended the fuel containers and now you have the modularity that is now fashionable.

    Soviet engine. Well, if today it is modified, reliable and cheap, as a whole meets the requirements of this particular machine, then why not? New to design and finish by 2030?

    It is important to perceive the Mig 35 not as an opponent with the F 35, but as something in between the fighter and the bomber, i.e. overall can help both there and there. The nomenclature of ammunition allows for 5 s + to work both on the ground and in the air if you help with reconnaissance in serious cases, although it’s at least very small.

    The fact that now there are 12 pieces is not yet a mass purchase, they look, I’ll say it in fashion, there can be both sores and the addition of innovations.

    From my fantasies - because Instantly it was announced the resumption of work on the UAV Skat (10 tons), they can just put AFAR on it so that it "shines" (and let the piece of iron itself shine), but just at a distance, the Mig 35 going behind will be invisible slit radar, but receiving information from the Skat), although it is not considered "invisible". A kind of long arm, in which the pilot's life is saved, and in which it is possible to forcefully and brazenly climb into the depth of the defense and do a lot of things that are unpleasant for the enemy.
    1. +10
      12 July 2019 09: 26
      You would look who possesses MiGs - before writing about export potential.

      Of those who have money:
      Algeria - will not buy. They now generally freeze the implementation of military contracts until the election of a new president.
      Malaysia - a decision was made to replace MiGs with aircraft of a different type. Most likely the Hornets, they really liked them and they want more. Tender soon. Most likely they will try to buy used with modernization. Plus now, relations have not deteriorated against the background of the Boeing, but against the backdrop of cooperation with Indonesia, they again have a great daredevil with the desire to try their luck in redistributing the island and selling serious weapons, it is possible only to one side, the second is very offended.

      Slovakia - a decision was made to switch to F-16block70 / 72, aircraft were ordered, paid and are in production. After Slovakia itself will become an exporter of MiGs wassat .
      Azerbaijan - it is possible, but politics closes such contracts.
      Egypt - just bought Saudi money MiG-29M / M2 (in fact the same MiG-35 installation party only without the last chips) + Rafali. Already managed to smash one plane.
      Poland - well, everything is clear here.
      India - dancing with dances.

      The result of all countries with money, only 2 current operators can theoretically buy.

      It is possible to sell to Sudan, Yemen, Syria, Eritrea, Cuba, North Korea - but only as a gift.
      1. +8
        12 July 2019 10: 43
        "Selling to Sudan, Yemen, Syria, Eritrea, Cuba, North Korea is possible, but only as a gift."
        Here they are only in these countries and will be, at our expense, of course. Yes, here also the Bolivian Morales made us happy with his visit, he also wants a loan.
      2. 0
        13 July 2019 03: 04
        Malaysia has been resolving the issue of replacing the MiG-29 for a good 10 years, but it still won’t. Do you even know what is the reason for raising this question? There are no complaints about flight and combat characteristics. MiGs will also be replaced (if at all) by Russian aircraft, most likely by Rusk.
    2. 0
      12 July 2019 12: 10
      In Russia, for 28 years they have not created a single combat aircraft, I hope they will put the Su-57 on the wing. The Yak-130 was born in heavy torment, which is still being developed and it does not fully comply with the rules of the Russian Aerospace Forces, as they say better in the hands, than the crane in the sky. The MiG-35s have been trying to finish since 2005 after the failure of the tender in India, this is a long time and a very big crime, and as always no one is punished. The MiG-35 was created in the realities of the KB and the state, as everyone understands that the creation of a new car could be delayed or even become a farce. Surprised by the TTX MiG-35, where did the author get them, take-off weight under 30 tons, and a range of more than 3000 km without refueling, where did this murzilka come from?
      1. +2
        13 July 2019 12: 03
        For 28 years in Russia they have not created a single combat aircraft, I hope they will put the Su-57 on the wing. The Yak-130 was born in heavy torment ...

        New in the sense of a glider? Where did they create it? All "free world" somehow gave birth to the F-35 ...
        This is not your 50s when dozens of new (including experimental) planes took off every year in the world ... Or, deciding to send people to the moon, they did it in 7-8 years!
        Now bankers rule .. All over the world, yachts are more important))
        1. +2
          13 July 2019 12: 16
          Since you hinted about the USA, the F-22 is a revolutionary car, there is still no analogue.
          The F-35 in three persons, especially the VTOL model, was completely developed in the USA, and what will be released in different countries is even better, a far-sighted prospect. You have an example analogous to this aircraft, especially the F-35B.
          And finally, the F-18E / F and EF-18G, completely new aircraft and very efficient, they have no equal among deck aircraft.
          And about RAH-66 Kamanch and MN-22 Osprey, I modestly say nothing, even though the first one was not adopted.
          1. +3
            13 July 2019 14: 24
            F-22 is a revolutionary machine, there is still no analogue ...

            We started to develop long before the deadline you specified.
            F-35 in three persons ... everything was completely developed in the USA, but what will be produced in different countries ...

            He mentioned him as the only new one - "all (rich) world" did)). But it seems on the contrary - they developed a dozen countries (including Israel, some only financially participated), but they are produced only in the USA (with the exception of components)
            You have an example analogous to this aircraft, especially the F-35B.

            Didn't understand which "us" and what analogue is eating?
            and finally the F-18E / F and EF-18G, brand new cars

            Development also started earlier, and the "news" - like the Su-35 to 27
            And about RAH-66 Kamanch and MN-22 Osprey, I modestly keep silent ...
            And you will do well, again "does not pass" according to the criteria you mentioned (so you can reach the Tu-214SR)))
      2. -2
        13 July 2019 16: 04
        Created Su 57 and Su 34 - from the 32nd it differs in everything.
  4. +10
    12 July 2019 06: 17
    I myself am not an expert, but even I know that the MiG-29 was created to conduct defensive battles on its own territory, in the coverage area of ​​ground-based radars, so it was initially set on a weaker airborne radar. Such was the concept of a light fighter - a niche machine for interacting with air defense units. The MiG-35 was equipped with an AFAR specially for the Indians; initially, such an army cadavre was not needed. And suddenly the author complains - ahhh, they put an old radar on him! Not realizing that this is exactly what corresponds to the original concept of the machine. Well, about the price, the author is lying. In a normal configuration, the MiG-35 is not only cheaper in itself, but, more importantly, can greatly save on operating costs.
    1. +4
      12 July 2019 07: 10
      4 ++ with the proper degree of network-centric capabilities - this is what needs to be done from the MiG-35, then it will fit into its tasks and will last until the next generation. All sorts of tasty goodies such as learning AI, "glass" cockpits, drone control, etc. can be added gradually. He cannot become a stealth, but this is not required of him.
    2. 0
      12 July 2019 10: 09
      Quote: Pbs2
      What was the concept of a light fighter - a niche machine for interacting with air defense units

      The concept of a light fighter has changed. The range increased, the air defense radar field died, and the requirements for tactical requirements became stricter. AFAR has become urgently needed for many reasons. It remains to make mass production of AFAR possible. Now this is a piece of goods, not serial.
      1. +4
        12 July 2019 10: 57
        Why on earth did the radar field die. On the contrary, it is being reborn. Not only are relatively modern radars arriving, but the old ones, like 22Zh6, have undergone modernization. Moreover, there was information that even the sneaks were altered into a full-fledged radar. Moreover, in situevina, when the enemy has stealth aircraft, but not in Russia, the importance of the network of ground-based radars will be decisive. Naturally, not only radars, but also RTR and ACS are necessary. (The same network-centricity)
        1. -3
          12 July 2019 14: 38
          Quote: sivuch
          Why on earth did the radar field die

          Yes, with the fact that the number of radar installations has decreased significantly, the availability of existing ones is very different from 100% due to problems with financing and spare parts.
          In addition, the radar field is now formed by surveillance radars with their own characteristics, highly susceptible to interference and having restrictions on height and terrain.
          Air defense command centers reduced.
          Thus, our radar field is currently not capable of fully fighter guidance.
          1. -1
            12 July 2019 19: 59
            I hope you are carrying misinformation out of ignorance, and not for provocation purposes. and what is wrong in your "promised land"? is the radar field "formed by surveillance radars with their own characteristics, highly susceptible to interference and having limitations in height and relief?"
            Why is it, all of a sudden, "Air defense command centers have been reduced?" Far from it! new air defense zones are created and old air defense zones are expanded, new air defense systems are obtained and deployed! Google to the rescue! I will reveal a "little secret", the "radar field" for our air defense systems is the same, the air defense is centralized, it takes SECONDS to make a decision. Yes, and it is created not only by surveillance radars, civil GSM transmitters, any emitters perfectly serve this purpose! What, your "chariot apologists" haven't thought of it yet?
          2. 0
            13 July 2019 13: 42
            No need to compare the capabilities of the radars of the old and new generations, they differ as much as heaven and earth.
          3. +1
            14 July 2019 09: 13
            Sorry, late
            According to the head of the military department, during this time the enterprises of the military-industrial complex delivered over 600 new and about 200 repaired weapons, military and special equipment to the troops. Among them –– 11 aircraft of various classes and purpose, 5 Mi-8MTV-5-1 helicopters, 36 radar stations of various modifications,
            This is for one quarter of one year. How much do you need?
  5. +6
    12 July 2019 06: 19
    A fighter is like a tool for a specific task. In addition to gaining dominance in the air with unique machines, there are others, for example, preventing mass transfer of troops by air bridges to a theater of war with machines specially sharpened for this. No need to focus on super invisible.
  6. +3
    12 July 2019 06: 20
    A radar with AFAR for Mig-35 most likely the Indian is offered in the Indian tender, as well as many other components. For VKS its essence to deliver nizya. For export, yes, so they called her a bug. Do we even have radars with AFAR, the big question. If it was, then why not put it on the Su-35 at least? Although a stripped down version. Most likely, the first production su-57s will be without a radar with AFAR. Apparently compromised to speed up the introduction of troops. Like the Europeans with the Eurofighter.
    1. 5-9
      +1
      12 July 2019 08: 37
      Why on the Su-35S? His PFAR Irbis is far superior to Zhuk-A ...
    2. 0
      12 July 2019 18: 54
      Quote: Demagogue
      Do we even have radars with AFAR, the big question. If it was, then why not put it on the Su-35 at least? Although a stripped down version. Most likely, the first production su-57s will be without a radar with AFAR.

      Demagogue, these are just your assumptions and nothing more. The Su-57 uses an airborne radar with AFAR H036 "Belka", which is superior to the AN / APG-81 F-35 and AN / APG-77 F-22 radars. And Russia has no problems with production and installation on the Su-57.
      1. 0
        14 July 2019 09: 16
        Well, of course, the first Su-57s will fly with cast-iron ingots to maintain alignment. I think a person simply does not understand what it means to put another radar station.
  7. +4
    12 July 2019 06: 38
    Everything, as always, comes down to money. Whether the Russian Federation will pull the content of yet another air force design bureau, which we say frankly, will not give anything breakthrough in the next 20 years. Why am I talking about 20 years - an aircraft that surpasses the Su-57 so much and will have to be developed. The plane is inferior to the modernized Su-35, and produced by a tiny series - therefore expensive (regardless of its empty weight), is the Air Force needed? For the money of the MiG-35 program (one should be aware that turning the MiG-29 into 35 was not a freebie), putting into production of 6 aircraft a year is most likely possible to upgrade the Su-30 regiment according to avionics. In general, AFAR for the Su-3x family is the most necessary thing to allocate funds for.
    1. -3
      12 July 2019 07: 01
      Will the Russian Federation pull the content of yet another aviation design bureau, which we will say bluntly, will not give anything breakthrough in the next 20 years

      It’s not even a question of whether it will pull, the question is that if the money is distributed between MIG and SU ... Then the latter will also have financial difficulties and as a result we won’t have more than one competent KB
    2. +2
      12 July 2019 08: 05
      Quote: Barb
      Will the Russian Federation pull the content of another airbag, which, frankly, 20 will not produce anything breakthrough in the coming years ...

      "What peacock-mawlin?" What is "another aviation design bureau"? It was infa that the MiG was "re-subordinated" to Sukhoi! Netuti of the now-once "proudly independent" Mikoyan design bureau! Is there a branch, or a "subsidiary" company ... of a holding company? Dry!
      Quote: Barb
      and produced in a tiny series

      So, the real plans for the MiG-35, most likely, are as follows: to rearm the countries that are armed with MiG-29!
    3. +2
      12 July 2019 17: 41
      Pull more like. If you cut Serdyukov and other top managers like him.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. 5-9
    -10
    12 July 2019 08: 35
    Why throw on this AFAR? PFAR on the Su-35S covers almost all AFAR like a bull to a sheep .. because power is power.
    But the MiG-35 is not needed from the word at all, because it is not cheap and not easy, the range is much less than Su, and there is nothing to produce a zoo, which is already so large
  10. +1
    12 July 2019 09: 53
    Quote: Demagogue
    Most likely, the first production su-57s will be without a radar with AFAR.

    https://niip.ru/upload/iblock/260/2605e1fc0d3dce761d6e79809687cf5e.pdf
    An important event of the past year was the conclusion of a contract for the supply of the first installation batch of Su-57 to the Russian Ministry of Defense. The first aircraft should be handed over to the Russian aerospace forces this year, and the second one next year, and the delivery of the radar system created by the Institute with AFAR will be carried out for them by a serial enterprise - the State Ryazan Instrument Plant, which is part of KRET.
  11. 0
    12 July 2019 09: 55
    Quote: avia12005
    The United States now has the F-22, F-35, not to mention the F-15 and F-16 of various modifications.

    and this list is far from exhausted
  12. +3
    12 July 2019 10: 04
    Quote: Tibidokh
    So you are a little mistaken about "all eggs in one basket".

    yes, but there remains the actual Sukhoi monopoly, which is already evident that is hindering the qualitative development of aviation. The fact that he survived and, in fact, took out the construction of fighter jets in the 90s is good, but the dry one has reached its market ceiling and I see its height as very low.
    Need a competition! I don’t drown in an instant, I’m quite happy as a competitor, Il or Yak, but there should be a competitor. We have a market or where? laughing
    the internal struggle should strain both the design bureau and the suppliers, otherwise, frankly, they are ofigel.
    It’s difficult and expensive to buy thermal imagers known for about 70 years and AFAR, which have already been built for 40-50 years, for the army. It is time to return the industry to normal NTP.
    1. 0
      12 July 2019 18: 14
      Quote: yehat
      We have a market or where?

      Unfortunately, "where", because the state buys products at its own prices. And yet, if in the USA, roughly speaking, 3 cars are presented for the competition and the best is chosen, then how do we choose the best of the two conceptually different ones? types of troops ...
      1. 0
        13 July 2019 15: 15
        In the USA, there are quite successful companies, Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop, they all compete with each other and ultimately bear fruit, but sometimes they combine their efforts and produce breakthrough high-tech products, why isn’t it all the other way around? everything, and nothing else, especially Sukhoi’s company never engaged in light fighters and high-altitude interceptors, you don’t have to fence this whole garden, let everyone do their own thing, Sukhoi - heavy fighters, attack aircraft and front-line bombers, and MiG - light fighters and high-altitude interceptors .
  13. +7
    12 July 2019 10: 30
    Lies again about MiG from A to Z, why are "experts-experts" writing this? And most importantly, they compare "a hand with a finger". Well, these are different classes of cars in Sukhoi and MiG, understand this, DIFFERENT. And their tasks are DIFFERENT. MiG is a front-line fighter that serves to cover the air at a shallow depth, and is distinguished by its low cost and mass character. By and large, he does not need stealth, he is not a breakthrough plane. But to improve "stealth", i.e. Some confusion of the radar, it is covered with special paint. Why do you need a powerful radar? He needs to drive off enemy aircraft in his coverage area, which is more than covered by current technologies. Engines - it seems that the hack has seen enough of fantastic Hollywood films and wanted ion-plasma on the plane ... But no, the engine is excellent and reliable, why invent something supernatural? It has been improved and that's enough. Or did the scribbler come up with some kind of special engine? :) Article slag ...
    1. +11
      12 July 2019 10: 42
      Well against whom? Western type of army? Then on that side there will be a cover group with good radars and AIM-120С - with tactics to throw 5-6 missiles into that MiG and let them perform circus numbers. If he does not have a normal radar, he will not even see this group. Why is it needed? To be a target?

      Engines all three times lose in resource to the new F-16block70 engine (4000 vs 12000). This is clearly not an important indicator for a front-line fighter.

      Price? MiG-35 is 15% cheaper than Su-30СМ if you take the MO contract. And this is in the first person, without AFAR, without new sights and other updates that will come later.
      1. -2
        12 July 2019 16: 48
        There will not be any radars there, Everything will be destroyed or jammed, and taking into account the fact that ours and the Americans are shoving the suppression and active jamming systems wherever there is any sense from long-range missiles there will not be much. Especially consider that in terms of interference with guidance and positioning systems, we are leaders.
      2. 0
        12 July 2019 17: 02
        The Mi-8, on which I flew, has an engine life of 1000 hours. It is 5-6 years of operation. Helicopters are operated more intensively than fighters. why 12000? This is more expensive.
      3. -2
        12 July 2019 20: 42
        Quote: donavi49
        Engines all three times lose in resource to the new F-16block70 engine (4000 vs 12000). This is clearly not an important indicator for a front-line fighter.

        When comparing the resource, you missed - even during my service, I was operating the MiG-29, if anything, I got into the hands of the VVIA Zhukovsky issue on engines izd.88, where the underpinnings of advertising statements about “supposedly super-reliable” F- engines were chewed sixteen. This is all advertising chatter, no more - the frequency and volume of work, the service life of the F-16 engines is completely identical to our edition 16! the difference is only in the approach and organization of operation - a number of works, after a certain period of time, we are allowed to perform only in the FACTORY conditions, and "at them" the same works are performed in the conditions of the unit, in units similar to our TEC, and on-site teams, without referring them for repairs. Hence the "difference". It was VERY expensive and unrealistic to have in units (and there were several dozen, if not hundreds, of regiments with MiG-88s in the USSR) such highly qualified brigades with the appropriate equipment.
        Quote: donavi49
        on the other side there will be a cover group with good radars and AIM-120S - with tactics, throw 5-6 missiles into that MiG and let it perform circus numbers.

        I'm afraid that "they" will have to "perform circus acts" - you do not take into account that "they" will be opposed by the COMPLEX of air defense-videoconferencing, in conditions of a continuous radar field, a centralized control system of air defense and videoconferencing, controlled by a system with "elements" of artificial intelligence, where the decision to shoot down the target takes not minutes, but SECONDS. It is unlikely that there are such "stoned", equipped
        Quote: donavi49
        good radar and AIM-120C
        ready to teach lessons to forefathers!
    2. +2
      12 July 2019 11: 32
      It’s true that the author
    3. +2
      12 July 2019 12: 48
      With this approach like yours, instant 21 is better (if it were all that simple)). There, the price of an hour (flight / car) is lower and the crap is less. For the interceptor is an exterminator, the actions on its territory are in a review of its radar and air defense systems .. In fact, the moment 29-35, at a cost (all parameters) is comparable with the su 27-35 family ... Would make a single-engine lfi .., then yes, the logic is clear
    4. 0
      13 July 2019 20: 38
      Quote: sendel
      and differs in low cost and mass character
      Low cost is no different. This is his main problem. With mass also not very.
      Quote: sendel
      Why do I need a powerful radar?
      In order not to become a defenseless target.
      Quote: sendel
      But no, the engine is excellent and reliable, why invent something supernatural?
      I don’t know how the Mig-35 has, but on the Mig-29 it was necessary to capitalize the engine every 350 hours. Find the data for the Pratt Whitney F100-PW-200 yourself (offhand they have an order of magnitude more resource). With the glider resource, the Mig-29 is also very sad (it may even have already been worked out for all cars). Because of this, the horse price of an hour of flight.
  14. +8
    12 July 2019 10: 45
    We are talking about the "Beetle-A." We will not talk in detail about the advantages of AFAR, however, this technology gives almost complete superiority in terms of quality over older radars, for example, radars with a passive phased antenna array, which, in particular, is equipped with the Su-35S.
    I both read it, I thought that Lenya Nikolaev writes with parity. For him, it’s not about .., well, in general, not to cheat Russian equipment means to spend the day in vain.
    So here. Yes, AFAR radars have advantages over PFAR radars (therefore they go to them), but it’s not at all as total as the latter over slotted or cassegrain ones. Say, to implement a mechanical antenna extension for the AFAR, with its complex cooling system, is quite difficult.
    So much depends on the execution, say, size still matters. (for AFAR - this is the number of PPM). In a small fairing Mig-35 (or Rafal) you can’t place a lot of them. So, in the words of one daughter of an officer, not everything is so simple
  15. 0
    12 July 2019 11: 02
    Quote: 5-9
    Why on the Su-35S? His PFAR Irbis is far superior to Zhuk-A ...


    In general, I had in mind the Squirrel, but when compared with the Beetle, then not everything is clear. In Murbils on Irbis detection ranges are not given for standard operation. In reality, Irbis most likely did not go far from the Beetle, although the radar is very good. After studying the Irbis, the Chinese wrote that their AFAR is better. Let them not lie. The Chinese have a clone of the Israeli 2052. That's somewhere between the Beetle and the 2052 Irbis))
  16. +1
    12 July 2019 11: 08
    Something drew the author to the Pogosyanovschina. Mig is a good aircraft and the right one, 60 percent should be in the army, there is potential, but the fact that the plant management did not uphold it, and even when he supervised the two factories at once, he put him on his knees.
  17. +5
    12 July 2019 11: 09
    The purchase of the MiG-35 in the VKS is rather an attempt to keep the design bureau afloat and go the way of the Su-30MKI, when in the literal sense of the word, the Sukhoi Design Bureau was saved through contracts with India. No one will buy a fighter that is not even in service with the air force of the country in which it is manufactured. Another thing that just killed me is the prospect of getting a plane without AFAR in the part of the aerospace forces. This is really idiocy. What's the point?
    Question to specialists: why buy combat training aircraft if you are not going to buy a large consignment of combat drill? And another question: is there a place to be training pilots on the MiG-35 UB with the aim then that they fly to Sukhoi? Korcet is strange all this.
  18. +3
    12 July 2019 11: 14
    Quote: silver_roman
    The purchase of the MiG-35 in the VKS is rather an attempt to keep the design bureau afloat and go the way of the Su-30MKI, when in the literal sense of the word, the Sukhoi Design Bureau was saved through contracts with India. No one will buy a fighter that is not even in service with the air force of the country in which it is manufactured. Another thing that just killed me is the prospect of getting a plane without AFAR in the part of the aerospace forces. This is really idiocy. What's the point?

    The point is that they are buying a cheap-to-use workhorse. A gazelle in which bonbs are cheaper to carry than on dryers. Radar with AFAR in the international market costs $ 6-7 million. Even if we have two times cheaper for VKS, then all one is dear to them. Then with the modernization will be replaced as cheaper.
  19. +2
    12 July 2019 11: 21
    The author is a little lost in time and space ... Nobody calls the MiG-35 "light" except him. The MiG-35 is a medium fighter with a combat radius of up to 1000 (1500 with PTB) km. The maximum detection range for an aerodynamic target is up to 200 km with its own RCS of 1 sq. M (10 times less than the MiG-29). The main differences from the MiG-29 are another category of fighter (medium), super-maneuverability, increased survivability, structural strength, and reduced operating costs.
    Main purpose: gaining superiority in YOUR airspace, i.e. counteraction to attacking fighters of the adversary in the area of ​​its air defense and near it. The main opponent for a classmate is Fu-35. And most importantly: the possibility of large-scale production, up to 75 boards per year. And maybe even up to 100. What the Su-30/35/57 obviously can not.
    By the way, the author missed the information that now the Su-30 and Su-35 will be completely unified according to the components.
    1. 0
      12 July 2019 15: 07
      Quote: Tektor
      The main opponent for a classmate is Fu-35. And most importantly: the possibility of large-scale production, up to 75 boards per year. Or maybe up to 100. What the Su-30/35/57 obviously can not.

      Can you confirm your words?
      While going to buy 6 pcs. in year. And what for are they so good and the Air Force needs so much?
      1. +1
        12 July 2019 18: 13
        To master, detect operational flaws, fix on a small batch (cheaper), not?
      2. -3
        12 July 2019 20: 37
        From other people's words: there was a time in the USSR when about 70 MiG-29s were fired in a year. You understand, in the threatened period, you will need to rivet the hawks at a fire pace. And 70 sides a year - that's 70 sides ... Three regiments. This is power! They need to be helped to control the air defense system under the horizon, as even if you raise the radar by 50 m, you can’t look beyond 40 - 50 km ... Therefore, a force of forces is needed to organize defense of the air defense system so that it observes threats below the horizon. Well, up to 400 km from the MiG-400 will be added to the 200 km S-35 review ... Ie hit our radar adversary will be difficult and expensive.
        1. -1
          13 July 2019 16: 08
          There will not be such a period - now is not the time of the Second World War, whether the conflicts are local or nuclear missiles - with the end of the world for those parties that started it.
      3. +1
        13 July 2019 02: 54
        In the morning money - in the evening chairs. He will pay the Air Force not for 6, but for 60 - he will receive 60, everything is simple.
  20. -3
    12 July 2019 11: 35
    Afar is certainly a good thing, but there is a significant minus - in the absence of the approach speed, the target is not visible, no one canceled the Doppler law. A pulsed radar does not have this, but it is easy to crush it with interference, can it go along the path of noise immunity?
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. 0
    12 July 2019 12: 42
    Quote: sendel
    low cost

    something is not noticeable. while the cost is quite competing with the penguin
  23. +1
    12 July 2019 12: 44
    Quote: Tektor
    reduced operating costs.

    this is actually worth proving. soviet moment29 nifiga was not cheap.
  24. +1
    12 July 2019 12: 50
    Quote: goose
    toughened the requirements for tactical requirements.

    can you clarify what you mean? And then my brain refuses to give a deterministic answer wassat
  25. 0
    12 July 2019 13: 34
    The new Mig will be a great addition to the VKS fleet. It is easier and cheaper (pretty well) and will be able to replace the MiG-29, as well as be able to export to those countries that already have an instant. Everyone knows the rule that weapons must first be adopted, and then exported. An excellent alternative to all sorts of F-16 (many bukaf) and, probably, flu.
    1. +4
      12 July 2019 15: 09
      Quote: bogart047
      The new Mig will be a great addition to the VKS fleet. It is easier and cheaper (pretty well) and will be able to replace the MiG-29, as well as be able to export to those countries that already have an instant.

      Decently, is it 15% incomplete? List the camps that perhaps buy a MiG-35?
  26. -1
    12 July 2019 13: 45
    Mr. Gegat, you are an amateur with a capital letter! Accordingly, fulfill the order, work out your grants. And the Mig-35 is needed because it has no equal in its class!
  27. +1
    12 July 2019 13: 51
    I can’t judge a plane, I don’t have the knowledge for this.
    But there is a question. The engine is old, still Soviet. At what level is his "brain" now? I mean that modern computing systems provide many times greater opportunities for collecting data from the field of sensors and organizing engine load modes based on these data.
    It seems feasible to radically improve engine performance through the development of modes based on new features provided by modern computers. Was this done? Is being done?
  28. +2
    12 July 2019 14: 18
    The Saratov aircraft factory was killed, Smolensk contracted to an incomprehensible one. Moscow ...
    Omsk association "Flight", which produced, in addition to rocketry, Antonov planes ...
    Now I read: "As of 2018, the procurement, machining and galvanic production at the enterprise was destroyed, the unique technological equipment was dismantled and sent to scrap metal. Details for cooperation come from various enterprises in Russia. The staff of the Quality Control Department has been reduced, the military acceptance of the Quality Control Department has been eliminated ..."
  29. +1
    12 July 2019 15: 17
    Maybe you still don’t need to abandon the MIG-35? Why ..? Firstly, in order to keep the rival team creating the combat aircraft. Secondly, someone already noted above that if something, the MIG 35 would definitely not hurt like in World War II YAKs and La, and even I16 are in demand ... Again, the presence of another plant producing fighter jets will help saturate the aircraft parts with fresh, modern aircraft instead of those that are already outdated and have practically exhausted their resources. Well and thirdly, I think that it is not necessary in a hurry to conclude contracts for the sale of SU 57E, and try to make the MIG-35 the main export model! It is in Russia that it does not have its own specific niche, and for many countries, as they say, for happiness it would go ...
  30. -1
    12 July 2019 16: 13
    as usual, everyone knows better than me and everyone else how to. at the same time, no one even remembered about the Mig35 laser weapon with a striking (non-dazzling) ability of up to one hundred km on missiles and larger. kka example, a small burn to the rocket protectors with a speed of 3m for 30km from a blink35 can lead to the flight of it from the air to the atmosphere .... for the aftermath not 1 so 10.
    1. 0
      12 July 2019 20: 58
      If this happens, a heavier aircraft will also land.
  31. +1
    12 July 2019 16: 15
    Quote: bogart047
    The new Mig will be a great addition to the VKS fleet. It is easier and cheaper (pretty well) and will be able to replace the MiG-29, as well as be able to export to those countries that already have an instant. Everyone knows the rule that weapons must first be adopted, and then exported. An excellent alternative to all sorts of F-16 (many bukaf) and, probably, flu.

    he’s sarcasm - why is it that moment 29 is eternal! sarcasm of
  32. +3
    12 July 2019 16: 18
    Quote: Mikhail3
    But there is a question. The engine is old, Soviet yet.

    already changed. much higher resource. he is at least more sane in operation.
  33. +2
    12 July 2019 16: 21
    Quote: Mikhail3
    modern computer systems provide many times greater opportunities for collecting data from the field of sensors and organizing, based on these data, engine load conditions.

    Now the problem is not in the data - it is already there, the problem is in the investment in new materials and technological improvements. Often there is such that we know the problem, we even know how to decide who and where, but "there is no money, but you are holding on." In the USSR, there was no such problem on important projects.
    1. 0
      12 July 2019 21: 42
      You do not quite understand. I'm talking about clean technology — Soviet engines must be put on the stand again, sensors added, taking into account modern solutions in this area, and loaded on the new ones, having made a modern program for all-mode control. This will give old engines a new life. Judging by your previous post, this has been done at least partially. But was it a full-fledged program, or was it just something that was finished quickly?
      I know that it is very, very expensive. And I understand that now our state has little desire to throw out such money for work (now if we build another toll road, then of course, and so ...) It’s just that the modern domestic aviation industry is not capable of building new engines. Rostec can run any number of self-advertisements, but we understand that the wrong people gathered there, like everywhere else now.
      Almost the only thing that will prolong our existence as a Power is the use of computers on the old Soviet basis. You look, I'll have time to die of my death before all this collapses on our heads ....
  34. +3
    12 July 2019 17: 58
    In general, it’s rather difficult to understand why the Su-30SM was bought in parallel with the Su-35S, which, among other things, seems to be a much more modern machine. After all, the Su-30SM is in the broad sense simply a “Russified” version of the far from new Su-30MKI. And we are silent about the Su-27SM3, Su-30M2 and MiG-29SMT.

    Simple to understand - the matter is in the manufacturing plants.
    At the time of ordering the Ministry of Defense, it was necessary to urgently update the Sukhikh fleet. Time was short, and the budget was not endless. Therefore, to save time and money, the Ministry of Defense ordered the "Russification" of the export versions of the Su-30. But by that time, Irkutsk and Komsomolsk-on-Amur were producing quite different vehicles for export - like the T-90 and T-72 for tankers. And so it happened: Irkutsk makes complex Su-30SM, and Komsomolsk-on-Amur - simple Su-30M2.
    Then Komsomolsk-on-Amur, instead of the simple Su-30M2, mastered the Su-35S - and overtook Iruktsk. And the MO began to order also the Su-35S. But the order for the Su-30SM continued to be fulfilled - for the same reason as before: the cars were urgently needed, the machines needed a lot, there was no time to restructure the production, besides there was no guarantee that after the restructuring the plant would be able to hand over 100% new cars for it . So everyone does what they can.
    The helicopter pilots have the same picture: two factories drive the new Mi-28 and Ka-52, and in case of problems with the development of new equipment, 100% completed and mastered Mi-35 are also ordered for safety reasons.
  35. 0
    12 July 2019 18: 24
    The article is completely flawed. MIG-35 is ordered because:
    1) A living competitor to Pogosyanovsky Sukhoi is needed, without this, no matter how good the dryings are now, fighter aircraft will degrade.
    2) It is necessary to restore the dilapidated plants producing MiG
    3) MiG-35 is cheaper than Su-35 - it is more likely that they will buy in our potential foreign sales markets
    4) MiG-35 is smaller, lighter => eats less fuel - cheaper to operate (all other things being equal)
    1. +2
      12 July 2019 20: 54
      1. A living competitor needs the Su-57. It’s too late to compete with the rest.

      2. In the same factories there is no problem producing Su or heavy UAVs.

      3. Is it cheaper for sure? Serially produced Su-30MKI at cost price is not cheaper. It’s more profitable to sell it, which is done.

      4. He will consume less and cost only with a single patrol in peacetime. In terms of the defeat of one air target or the delivery of tons of cargo to the target Su will be more profitable.
      1. 0
        12 July 2019 21: 51
        1. This refers to KB and not a specific aircraft. There will be no development of ideas and approaches without competition.
        2. There are problems. Different KB-different approaches. Old people (those who really know what and how to restore) are used to MiGs and their approaches. I simply participated in the restoration of industries lost in the 90s. Without the all-knowing grandfather, everything is VERY tightly moving there.
        3. Serially produced MiGs will be cheaper than serial dryers.
        4. In my opinion, it will be cheaper. Empty weight is 40% less (13500 kg versus 19000 kg) => it consumes less fuel. The mass of the outboard weapons is 33% less, the suspension nodes are 33% less => the MiG will deliver ammunition with the same amount of fuel 1,406 / 1,33 = 1,067, 6,7% more.
        1. +2
          13 July 2019 00: 41
          1. So the point is that the idea is exactly the same, Mig-29 \ 35 and Su-27 \ 30 \ 35 - airplanes (gliders) are conceptually the same. Depending on the modification, they can be equipped with approximately the same equipment. On Su, you can simultaneously hang more diverse equipment due to the greater mass, and that's all.
          2. And what exactly are they different? Are different TECHNOLOGIES used in the manufacture of the Su-27 and Mig-29? The omniscient grandfather plugs a hole at the level of lack of design documentation, and this applies only to old technical processes. New ones will not appear.
          3. Well, the main question is how much? What should be the series to recapture the costs of resuming production? If we are talking about hundreds of cars, then it will never pay off.
          4. That is rude - for fuel then. And the maintenance, the number of pilots? ..


          I repeat, the easy Fighter - in no way, including the cost of the life cycle, does not exceed the heavy. But in many ways inferior. If we are discussing strike missions, is it necessary to do this to a fighter?
          1. 0
            13 July 2019 01: 13
            1. You again take away in particular. I am talking about maintaining a competing design bureau that can develop and offer alternative technical solutions.
            2. Technology then about identical, but technological features are different. Anchorages, locations of pipelines, cable ducts, etc. Technological methods for installation, etc. Figuratively speaking, on the control system, M8 bolts are used to fasten the wings and the entire attachment is sharpened under the M8, and on the MiG M6 and the entire attachment under the M6.
            3. "If we are talking about hundreds of cars, it will never pay off." Hasn't the production of dryers paid off? It's hard to believe
            4. In terms of fuel, Mig is still better :) But this is not important. Important:
            5. With equal costs for MiG, the enemy needs to spend 3 rockets at least, and for drying 2. This is the advantage of a light fighter. That is why the most common aircraft in the United States were F-16, not F-15, and in the USSR MiG-29 and not SU-27.
            1. 0
              13 July 2019 01: 29
              1. Well, let it offer something new to kb! Now - there is no new.
              2. But these moments just desirable to synchronize. Up to the production of any aircraft at any plant.
              3. There will be no hundreds of MiG-35s. It will become obsolete earlier. Therefore, it will not pay off.
              4. Better based on mass. Of course, we would know the hourly consumption. So then 6% is the measurement error)
              5. It is assumed that a heavy vehicle will need a heavy rocket. For a heavy machine with a more powerful radar and more long-range missiles may not enter the range of the enemy’s weapons.
              5.1. But this moment is the source of the discussed error. As of the 80s, 13 MiG-29s did not have an advantage over 10 Su-27s. The Americans have a little different, the cars were much more unified than ours.
              1. 0
                13 July 2019 02: 13
                1. Why do you need something new right now?
                2. Desirable. Only to restore production "from memory" it is necessary to restore what is as close as possible to the previously produced products. So - much faster and cheaper.
                3. Not a fact. For the third world, a machine will be quite successful when it is brought to mind. And taking into account the fact that half of the produced dryers are for export, then hundreds of Migs for export are quite possible.
                4. Well, if you find out then, in general, operating costs (fuel, engine life, the frequency and complexity of mandatory maintenance. This can be (people not burdened with access) can be judged 10 years after the start of operation of the parties of both machines.
                5.
                For a heavy machine with a more powerful radar and more long-range missiles may not enter the range of the enemy’s weapons.
                Taking into account the fact that the probable enemy - F-22 and F-35 will "see" them with the help of OLS, and they will shoot down in a close battle
                5.1. Could you give a source of this information?
                1. +1
                  13 July 2019 10: 17
                  1. You can not now. But to what it is necessary to go. And it’s better to spend resources on this, and not on building a small series, in general it’s not a very new car.
                  And kb Mig to what goes? To the analogue of the Su-57, but smaller? A qualitative change is needed in the activity, in the program.
                  2. “From memory” - this is not systemic. Production (as a system) should quickly and efficiently master new products for which documentation is well prepared. Up to the point that in aircraft of different design bureaus all non-scalable units (cabin, arms suspensions, various actuators and valve assemblies, etc.) should be the same. Two different aircraft, each of which has its own unique factory and a pool of suppliers, is a dead end.
                  3. Recalls the situation with cars, where for many it is important “new from the passenger compartment”. Third world countries will buy an F-16 / Su-30 beu for 25-30% of the price of a new one, and not a new moment for 75%. Strictly speaking, indirectly, the Beu aircraft market confirms this. Do not take Mig-29 on the secondary.
                  4. Can be estimated indirectly. The main maintenance and repair work of the Mig-29 / Su-27 does not depend on the size of the aircraft at all, but is due to the design features. Otherwise, ceteris paribus, the more planes - the more ground attendants, the more pilots, the more labor.
                  5. Yes, in the coming years there will not be 10 meetings of the Su30 / 57 with the F-22. With the F-35, judging by the list of buyers, too. In any case, a conflict with the United States will lead to the use of atomic weapons by one of the parties, a conflict with a NATO member will either lead to a conflict with the United States (which in any case is a "point-by-point defeat"), or to the collapse of NATO (which is case our victory).
                  5.1. Which one? Miggs were done more than Su because the role of these machines at the turn of the 70-80s (decisions on the volume of production was made even then, before the first flights) was seen differently. And the F-16 is a different concept. It was deliberately made cheaper on the basis of components from existing machines, starting with the engine from F15, and had half the cost. MiG-35 2 times cheaper than the Su-30/35 will not.
    2. 0
      13 July 2019 16: 11
      Twin-engine light fighter competitor to twin-engine heavy - never will.
  36. -2
    12 July 2019 19: 21
    Quote: SETSET
    Quote: Demagogue
    Do we even have radars with AFAR, the big question. If it was, then why not put it on the Su-35 at least? Although a stripped down version. Most likely, the first production su-57s will be without a radar with AFAR.

    Demagogue, these are just your assumptions and nothing more. The Su-57 uses an airborne radar with AFAR H036 "Belka", which is superior to the AN / APG-81 F-35 and AN / APG-77 F-22 radars. And Russia has no problems with production and installation on the Su-57.

    Imkhu, of course. It should be noted that the aforementioned American radars with AFAR are located on hundreds of combat vehicles, and not a single protein. If there is such a wonderful squirrel, then why not put it on the Su-35? And so I believe that protein is better than American AFAR, at least at the level with gravitational sensors on the Death Star.
  37. +1
    12 July 2019 19: 46
    Mig-35 late response to f-15
  38. 0
    12 July 2019 20: 47
    But let’s look from the other side: why is a light fighter needed at all?

    With light attack aircraft or bombers, everything is clear - to suppress a large number of small cheap targets, many cheap sorties are required with small ammunition delivered to each target.

    And what small and cheap targets can fighters have? Any manned aircraft is already a worthy goal for the heaviest fighter. This means that only attacking ammunition and drones remain.

    And in the fight against the latest MIG-35s nothing is more profitable than the Su family aircraft.
    1. 0
      13 July 2019 02: 50
      There is such a minor nuisance, which is called "air combat", in which the MiG-29 (now 35), even with a full refueling, definitely makes Sukikhs, unless they have burned half of their kerosene before. Proven in training battles.
      1. -1
        13 July 2019 06: 26
        There is such a minor nuisance, which is called "air combat", in which the MiG-29 (now 35), even with a full refueling, definitely makes Sukikh

        I suggest that you read https://topwar.ru/104658-su-27-protiv-mig-29-voyna-v-vozduhe-na-afrikanskom-roge.html
        1. -1
          13 July 2019 23: 39
          The MiG-29 against the Su-27 was tested by normal pilots, but how those who recently got off the donkeys flew was completely not interesting laughing
          1. 0
            14 July 2019 07: 23
            MiG-29 vs Su-27 was tested by normal pilots

            Well, the fact of the matter is that the MIG-29 can come out the winner only with a high-class pilot who will know which weapons they’ll use now and twist the turns ... And in a real combat situation, the trash is losing the Su-27 hi
            1. -1
              15 July 2019 18: 59
              Do you think a little when you press on the folders? laughing
      2. +1
        13 July 2019 10: 22
        Exactly what in training. The "close air combat", which is won by a more maneuverable machine, may simply not happen. SAM and long and medium-range missiles will work earlier.

        Plus, there’s a catch in the modification. Su-30/35/57 with engines with OVT Migu-35 (which has an engine without OVT) are not inferior.
  39. 0
    12 July 2019 20: 50
    Quote: Igor Aviator
    It is easy to "bazaar" while lying on the couch! Serving is harder!

    Well, now I’m lying on the couch, just like you probably. I served, I served mine. Well, as for the engines, I expressed my opinion that reliable engines need to be done, the whole world is doing that ours cannot? To survive, you need to adapt to demand.
  40. 0
    13 July 2019 02: 46
    Instead of stupidly and primitive philosophizing, it would be better for the author of the opus, Ilya Legat, to ask aviation specialists and pilots.
  41. 0
    13 July 2019 02: 51
    Quote: Sancho_SP
    Hundreds of MiG-35 will not be. It will become obsolete earlier. Therefore, it will not pay off.


    What does "pay off" mean?
  42. 0
    13 July 2019 03: 24
    Quote: armata_armata
    Excuse me, what kind of competition? MIG for a minute could not survive the 90s and create something competitive for export except modernization 29 ... Dead KB in fact, with whom can it compete?


    You are talking nonsense, and utter nonsense. The enterprise (MAPO, then RSK MiG) in the early 90s was able to obtain a license for military-technical cooperation, and at first with Oboronexport (then Rosvooronexport / Rosvooronexport) in 1994 it was able to sign the FIRST commercial contract in the history of Russia for delivery of MiG-29s to Malaysia, and then independently worked with various countries, including France (MiG-AT program).
    MAPO (RSK MIG) not only felt confident and was resolving the issue of further development of machines, but also ensured the loading of partners, the same Severin "Zvezda". In addition, it created 3 joint ventures (Germany, India, Malaysia), and entered into several large tenders, including the Brazilian one.
    It was then that the frightened Rosvooruzhenie broke through the decision to deprive RSK MiG of the right to independently conduct work on military-technical cooperation, and scooped up everything for itself. Sukhoi's henchmen came to the MiG, and the company began to die quietly, or rather, they began to kill her, although she developed the most promising directions: the MiG-AT trainer (in several versions), the MiG-110 transport aircraft, the 1.44 experimental vehicle (which flew ), Tu-334 in cooperation with Kiev "Aviant" (a huge assembly hangar was built in Lukovitsy), and the issue of serial production of the Il-114 was discussed (the fuselage and planes were already in the shop).
    Nevertheless, the MiG is still alive, although half dead, but not through its own fault, but as a result of undercover intrigues.
    1. +1
      13 July 2019 08: 15
      It was then that the frightened Rosvooruzhenie broke through the decision to deprive RSK MiG of the right to independently conduct work on military-technical cooperation, and scooped up everything for itself.

      Rather, they saw how much money goes past them. Somehow they told me a story about how Rosvooruzhenie forms prices. It is possible because of the greed of Rosvooruzhenie at the MIG that problems began.
    2. 0
      13 July 2019 08: 24
      I don’t believe in the conscious destruction of the design bureau. I believe more that in their heyday too many different people sucked at their feeding trough. Production became unprofitable, salaries began to fall, and employees scattered.
      1. 0
        13 July 2019 23: 45
        Do not believe in vain. After signing the contract with Malaysia, according to The Hindustan Times, the CIA created a unit to combat the promotion of the MiG-29. The fact of signing a contract with a country that had previously been the patrimony of the United States and Great Britain, became a serious advertisement in other countries, including Latin America.
    3. 0
      13 July 2019 19: 11
      who do not taste like MIG were killed in the 90s and early 2000s, have no voice. Poghosyan did everything to remove a competitor. There was a similar picture with Yakovlev Design Bureau ... But the only design office that did VTOL !!! And how now these planes could come in handy !!! And they sawed and drowned in 93m
  43. 0
    13 July 2019 10: 50
    Why is the MiG-35 a bad idea for the Russian Aerospace Forces? Ilya Legat sorry, complete nonsense.
    The Russian Su-35 “totally humbled” eight US and Japanese fighters.
    https://x-true.info/85708-rossijskij-su-35-totalno-unizil-vosem-istrebitelej-ssha-i-japonii.html
    Talking about superiority in battle makes no sense.

    soldier soldier soldier
    1. 0
      13 July 2019 20: 42
      These are different planes.
  44. -2
    13 July 2019 11: 26
    Mig 35 is good because it has good export potential. And for its implementation, he must stand in the arsenal of our Army and the point.
  45. 0
    13 July 2019 15: 53
    From an Aviation Power, we have turned into ... a business structure. What are AFAR and spare parts. Lord, wherever you throw, a wedge is everywhere.
    1. -1
      13 July 2019 16: 14
      Yes, now they started to count money - unlike the times of the USSR, where they were scattered right and left, like resources, on all kinds of lobby projects from the military-industrial complex and others.
  46. +1
    13 July 2019 17: 58
    Most likely, the dry okb will be completely translated, and then the dry okb will be instructed to develop a small, less expensive su, similar to the 29 and 35 instant, but with a greater unification of parts with larger models. Different engines and gliders, but the same electronics, radars and other parts. Competition is good when there is money, and it will not disappear, because there is foreign competition in the international market.
    1. 0
      13 July 2019 19: 16
      It is nonsense. Avionics can be unified. Combat systems, radars, etc. Engines why do the same? Then the Air Force may run into production problems. Therefore, it is necessary to do competition between design bureaus so that different machines fly.
  47. -1
    13 July 2019 19: 07
    What can I say ... Compare the cost of the MIG-35 and SU-35 what is the difference. Engines for instantly come out cheaper than on the SU. the difference in empty weight is 13500 kg and 19000 kg. (0,71 ratio), the maximum take-off weight of 29000 kg and 34000 kg (0.85 ratio) is already interesting ... so there are certain solutions for the MIG-35 that allow such conclusions to be drawn. The price for the Air Force will be 30% lower than that of the SU-35.
    The engines are used up and they can be made in large quantities. Klikukha in NATO, the plane had FULCRUM - "fulcrum" and the Su-27 flanker - "Strike to the flank"
    At one time, MIG-29 NATO was more afraid than the SU-27. Because they could be used from bad and short airfields and there were a large number of them. At the same time maneuverability, etc. at the level of SU.
    Now the MIG-35 looks at the F-15 level of the latest modifications. By stealth there is a large allotment and the possibility of events. They can be made by 2 Migovsky factories. After reading the article, there was a feeling that this was an order from the Pogosyanovsky. Maybe it’s enough to put all the eggs in one basket and develop some kind of competition?
  48. 0
    13 July 2019 19: 27
    Quote: SETSET
    The radar with AFAR N036 "Belka" on the pre-production Su-57 (12 copies produced) surpasses the AN / APG-77 radar
    (F-22), AN / APG-81 (F-35), especially in the range of detection of air targets ... Soon it will be in the series - the decision has been made.

    Seriously? What a commendable confidence. Just keep in mind that the first prototype AN / APG-77 was created in 1989, and the pre-production model with Block 1 software began its first flights in 1997. Is it too late for comparison?
    1. 0
      16 July 2019 17: 38
      antipatr, don't write your baby talk ...
      The AN / APG-81 radar (surpasses the AN / APG-77, that is, the next development) The F-35 reached its technical performance only on June 22, 2010 - in 2012 it is in service ... H036 "Belka" has been in service since 2016 years, a difference of 4 years is nothing, all the more it is not known when she went through R&D.
      At the present time in the USA there is no fighter-based radar that can surpass the N036 Belka radar of the Su-57 in detection range!

      Antipatr, learn materiel.
  49. 0
    13 July 2019 20: 49
    Since the MiG-35 cannot compete on equal terms with the new US Air Force fighters at low cost, (IMHO, of course) it must be redesigned into an attack machine (as the United States has now received from the F-16), which is still able to endure all but the conquest fighters air superiority. Then PFAR is not a drawback (well, there will be no mapping mode - it does not matter; less immunity to interference - the Mig-29 had an excellent optical system) and the engines can be deformed by raising the resource. The main thing is that there are a lot of them, i.e. the plane was at least half the price of a Su-35.
  50. 0
    14 July 2019 01: 35
    do all the "old stuff" do the SU-57!
    and so it should be everywhere, in tank building, too, switch to Armata, everyone is afraid of him, and they laugh like horses over the T-70/90/80, they overwhelmed UMP with orders for old products and their modernization, but they don't order new ones, "expensive" Kurganets25 and others, where " Bumirangi "? BTR 92A is still being stamped. Protecting people should be a priority, what's the use of tanks jumping like crazy?
  51. 0
    14 July 2019 22: 48
    Dear author!

    Let me remind you that the decision to accept the vehicle for service and organize mass production is made based on the results of a meeting of the joint commission. consisting of representatives of the government, the design bureau-developer, the main manufacturing plant, the Ministry of Defense, the Aerospace Forces, the Ministry of Finance of the Russian Federation and is formalized by a Government Decree. Before the commission meeting, a full range of flight tests of the vehicle are carried out. All this has already taken place, the planned production of 6 cars per year has been determined, and suddenly “some guy” from the “VO” website (i.e. you) says that “the MiG-35 should be abandoned because before the Su “It has no advantages.” Everyone doesn’t know, but HE knows!
    Agree, this is not serious!
    According to the pilots. The plane is good and in terms of performance characteristics it is at the level of the best world models. Indeed, this is no longer a light fighter like the MiG-29, but a multifunctional one. It became heavier due to an increase in fuel mass and combat load. If you reduce it, the car will become lighter. Today we do not have airfields, but airbases, of which there are significantly fewer than in Soviet times. If we take into account that the rearmament of units on the MiG-35 will take place with the MiG-29, then, knowing the places of their deployment, in the event of a local military conflict in Europe, our MiG will be lighter than European and American vehicles. As for stealth, no one has it fully. In Syria, our pilots detected Israeli F-35s at ranges that allowed them to use standard weapons. We offered the Indians means to reduce the visibility of the MiG-21 by 12 times, but they refused, saying that then they would have to abandon the Tejas, but they had already trained pilots for it, built a plant and made airplanes.

    In military affairs, as elsewhere, demand creates supply and only there. where there is competition, progress is possible. This is monitored in our country by the FAS, the federal antimonopoly service. It will not allow the Sukhoi Design Bureau to become a monopolist in the field of combat aviation. This is a dead end path.

    What is expensive and what is cheap. There are market prices, and then there is the cost of production. Naturally, they are different. For example, in the USSR, for the state, a GAZ-24 Volga cost 900 rubles, but on sale it cost almost 10 thousand. The cost of an aircraft on the world market is taken as the average for similar aircraft with minor fluctuations in one direction or another. Weapons are a profitable commodity today. MiG-29s fly in more than 12 countries around the world and some of them are already negotiating the acquisition of the MiG-35. The Indians abandoned the MiG-29K, but are now considering purchasing more than 100 MiG-35s. There are orders, which means the plant will work, people will receive guaranteed wages, and this is very important. Have you heard what happened in Novosibirsk when they decided to stop production of the Su-34 and layoffs began?

    The media publishes information about the capabilities of domestic and foreign combat vehicles. It is worth remembering that there is information, and there is targeted disinformation and do not rush to draw conclusions.
  52. 0
    15 July 2019 09: 41
    Quote: sgrabik
    In the USA there are quite successful companies, Boeing, Lockheed Martin and Northrop, they all compete with each other and in the end it bears fruit, but sometimes they join forces and produce breakthrough high-tech products, why is it the other way around here?

    because the survival and maintenance of profits of ALL these companies is the direct task of the government
    those who are left without a contract are given many chances to get a new one (but not for free, like Mig-u)
  53. 0
    16 July 2019 21: 30
    Quote: SETSET
    Antipatr, don't write your baby talk...

    I tell you again, the current model AN/APG-77 began test flights on board a special Boeing 757-200 in 1997, and the prototype H036 "Belka" was only assembled in 2008, and began flights in 2011. This is a 19-year head start in design and 13 years in flight testing.
    Quote: SETSET
    Antipatr, learn materiel.

    And you will learn to think. What do you and I know about Belka, APG-77 and 81? Nothing but size, number of PPIs and vague statements about some kind of range. Nobody will tell you the truth. But you can guess the level of technology development from the huge head start I’m talking about. And don’t forget that the PPMs of American radars are made on the basis of gallium nitride, and “Belki” is based on gallium arsenide with all that it implies.
    1. 0
      17 July 2019 13: 10
      antipatr, Are you tired of deliberately writing lies, as always, the strategist from Square, or do you not understand the meaning of Russian words?
      Quote: Antipatr
      And you will learn to think. What do you and I know about Belka, APG-77 and 81? Nothing but size, number of PPIs and vague statements about some kind of range. Nobody will tell you the truth. But you can guess the level of technology development from the huge head start I’m talking about. And don’t forget that the PPMs of American radars are made on the basis of gallium nitride, and “Belki” is based on gallium arsenide with all that it implies.

      As always, lies...
      N036 "Squirrel", also known under the code Ш-121. The transmit-receive modules of the active phased array antenna are made of the highest quality direct-gap semiconductor - gallium nitride (GaN). Compared to gallium arsenide, this substance has higher resistance to elevated temperatures and mechanical loads. The Belka is controlled by the most powerful on-board computer N036UVS, the hardware and software of which are orders of magnitude more advanced and productive than those installed on most of the F-22A Raptor fleet.

      Quote: Antipatr
      I tell you again, the current model AN/APG-77 began test flights on board a special Boeing 757-200 in 1997, and the prototype H036 "Belka" was only assembled in 2008, and began flights in 2011. This is a 19-year head start in design and 13 years in flight testing.

      Horror, baby talk... Do you even understand the difference - you can study for at least 20 years and still not make a radar with characteristics superior to the enemy's radar. For people like you:
      AN/APG-81 radar (superior to AN/APG-77, that is, the next development) The F-35 reached its technical parameters only on June 22, 2010 - in 2012 it was in service... N036 "Belka" has been in service since 2016, the difference of 4 years is nothing, especially since it is not known when it underwent R&D.
      At the present time in the USA there is no fighter-based radar that can surpass the N036 Belka radar of the Su-57 in detection range!

      You can’t refute it, so write your own fairy tales!
  54. -2
    16 July 2019 21: 59
    Can Belka operate in LPI (low probability of interception), narrow beam, electronic warfare, data link, radar mode? You don't know this and neither do I. But the Sovok put on secrecy to hide its offensive power (while chattering about the “struggle for peace”), and the current Russian Federation, I think, uses secrecy to hide something completely different...
    1. 0
      17 July 2019 13: 16
      Quote: Antipatr
      Can Belka work? in LPI (low probability of interception), narrow beam, electronic warfare, data link, radar mode? You don't know this and neither do I. But the Sovok put on secrecy to hide its offensive power (while chattering about the “struggle for peace”), and the current Russian Federation, I think, uses secrecy to hide something completely different...

      Learn the materiel, you illiterate strategist with the Square...
      LPI mode for detection distances has nothing to do with the maximum or working radar detection distances. because it is determined by other parameters (processing noise-like signals).
      The maximum distance in theory is up to 55 km, in real life less than 50 km. in the complete absence of jamming from the enemy, because this mode is very sensitive to the noise component.
      This distance is on the border of the detection distance of an aircraft operating in LPI by means of optoelectronic target search. For fighters of the last generation, it approaches 60-70 km. for subtle targets in the infrared range.
      This mode is convenient to sneak up to the enemy’s newest aircraft, while remaining invisible. When meeting a plane that has a modern OEC detection. as well as during the operation of electronic warfare systems, all its advantage is reduced to zero.

      And so on about all your illiterate sayings...
    2. 0
      April 24 2021 07: 26
      You farted! Your lack of knowledge of radar capabilities is, in principle, only due to the fact that you are far from the topic. In addition, I inform you that any Russian fighter has two radars (the second OLS). It is in these modes, with the main radars half-on, that Indian and Malaysian pilots in their Su-30 MKI/MKM dryly destroy NATO aircraft in the sky in training battles without the support of drilling aircraft. One reason is hiding the radar characteristics. Therefore, at medium and short distances, OLS is successfully used and NATO aircraft cannot do anything about it.
  55. 0
    16 July 2019 22: 54
    Quote: Antipatr
    Quote: SETSET
    Antipatr, don't write your baby talk...

    I tell you again, the current model AN/APG-77 began test flights on board a special Boeing 757-200 in 1997, and the prototype H036 "Belka" was only assembled in 2008, and began flights in 2011. This is a 19-year head start in design and 13 years in flight testing.
    Quote: SETSET
    Antipatr, learn materiel.

    And you will learn to think. What do you and I know about Belka, APG-77 and 81? Nothing but size, number of PPIs and vague statements about some kind of range. Nobody will tell you the truth. But you can guess the level of technology development from the huge head start I’m talking about. And don’t forget that the PPMs of American radars are made on the basis of gallium nitride, and “Belki” is based on gallium arsenide with all that it implies.


    Where does the information come from that the protein is based on gallium arsenide?? For example, I generally doubt that anything went beyond the early prototypes and the final appearance is not yet clear. And the Americans have 77 and 81 gallium arsenide radars, but they have been modernized and they write that they are now little inferior to gallium nitride radars. It is clear that gallium nitride gives the detection range up to 70% more, but apparently the difference is not always so significant. We could make any working radar with AFAR, and then we can show off later.
  56. 0
    17 July 2019 04: 30
    Quote: Demagogue
    Where does the information come from that the protein is based on gallium arsenide?

    Yes, from the same place as everyone else - from reading the World Trash. Moreover, supposedly, if 81 was immediately made of nitride, then 77 was first made of arsenide, and then, during some of the Increments, from nitride. Therefore, the APG-81, with noticeably smaller dimensions and the number of PPMs, for some time surpassed its older brother in power and detection range. But the F-35 is a workhorse and a “plane to conquer world markets,” and the F-22 is a unique heavy-duty machine not for sale, which should have everything the best, and the transition to gallium nitride restored the status quo.
  57. 0
    17 July 2019 09: 22
    In general, NIIP has a good team and there are young guys, but there are also technological (or rather political) limitations for further developments:
    NIIP General Director Yuri Bely emphasized that this is the most automated production in which the human factor is almost eliminated. The equipment is mainly foreign, including Japanese. Something that is not produced in our country. And in general, such technology, which is used today in the creation of our AFARs, did not exist in Russia before.
    1. 0
      17 July 2019 13: 31
      antipatr, you are just Janus or a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”!
      Quote: Antipatr
      The equipment is mainly foreign, including Japanese. Something that is not produced in our country. And in general, such technology, which is used today in the creation of our AFARs, did not exist in Russia before.

      Keep your illiterate fairy tales for yourself. There is no need to slander Russian designers and deliberately write lies over and over again. And learn the materiel, armchair strategist from Square. In all your statements: slander, illiteracy and bile towards Russia.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  58. -1
    17 July 2019 22: 17
    SETSET, I'm starting to doubt your adequacy. What reality do you live in? I quoted a QUOTE from an interview with the General Director of NIIP named after. Tikhomirov Yuri Bely to Nezavisimaya Gazeta correspondent Viktor Litovkin on August 14, 2009. Are you too lazy to copy a piece of text, put it into a search engine and check? So be it:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ng.ru/%3fp=http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2009-08-14/7_5generation.html
    And you keep muttering mantras to me about slander, illiteracy and bile. And I have nothing to do with “Independence”.
    In LPI mode, APG-77 detects a target with an ESR of 1m2 at a distance of 193 km, and not 50-55 km.
    Moreover, this is as of 2007, with the first version of APG-77. Do you think nothing has changed in 12 years?
    1. 0
      18 July 2019 23: 20
      In LPI mode, APG-77 detects a target with an ESR of 1m2 at a distance of 193 km

      Where did you get this from? In Wikipedia, if anything, the EPR of the target at which its radar detects it in LPI mode is not indicated.
    2. 0
      19 July 2019 07: 58
      Antipatr, as always, you are wrong...
      Quote: Antipatr
      In LPI mode, APG-77 detects a target with an ESR of 1m2 at a distance of 193 km, and not 50-55 km.

      What is written in Wikipedia is unreliable and illiterate - you simply can’t imagine what the excess of the reflected noise signal should be over the noise, and even more so in order to detect a target at a distance of 193 km and in a wide range - this is another mistake or fake... But here is the translation from English material:
      The APG-77 has an operating range of 100 miles (160 km), while unconfirmed sources suggest an operating range of 125–150 miles (201–241 km) against a 1 m2 (11 sq ft) target. Ranges of 400 km or more with the APG-77v1 with newer GaAs modules are believed to be possible using narrower beams. (Dead link [3])
      More than 100 APG-77 AESA radars have been produced by Northrop Grumman to date, and much of the technology developed for the APG-77 is used in the APG-81 radar for the F-35 Lightning II.

      And nothing is said about the LP mode... And again, nonsense is written on Wikipedia, the instrumental range of 525 km is simply nonsense...
  59. 0
    17 July 2019 22: 27
    And I must apologize to respected commentators for the inaccurate information about installing GaN-based TRM modules on APG-77 and 81. I was wrong, it’s GaAs.
  60. 0
    19 July 2019 10: 30
    1)
    Quote: SETSET
    And nothing is said about the LP mode... And again, nonsense is written on Wikipedia, the instrumental range of 525 km is simply nonsense...

    I don’t understand why you don’t know how to read:
    Target detection range with EPR=1 m2: 201-241 km;
    225 km in azimuth-speed mode;
    193 km in LPI mode (the frequency changes more than 1000 times per second);
    Instrumental range: 525 km;
    (Wikipedia, AN/APG-77). Links are provided, check).

    2) Nonsense, because you think so?
    3) The detection range in LPI mode is not much less than usual, because the total signal power at different frequencies is almost the same.
    1. 0
      19 July 2019 19: 24
      Antipatr, illiterate strategist... First, learn the basics: radar, receiving devices, transmitting devices, antenna-feeder devices - in order to have a substantive conversation. Your childish babble and ignorance of subjects only causes regrets about your illiteracy and denseness.
      Quote: Antipatr
      193 km in LPI mode (the frequency changes more than 1000 times per second);
      Instrumental range: 525 km;

      Prove this nonsense? You yourself do not know how to not only read, but also understand the meaning of the translation from English, which shows that Wikipedia was written by an illiterate strategist like you, who deliberately distorted the translation. Is it hard to prove this nonsense?
      Here's the real translation:
      The APG-77 has an operating range of 100 miles (160 km), while unconfirmed sources suggest an operating range of 125–150 miles (201–241 km) against a 1 m2 (11 sq ft) target. Ranges of 400 km or more with the APG-77v1 with newer GaAs modules are believed to be possible using narrower beams. (Dead link [3])
      More than 100 APG-77 AESA radars have been produced by Northrop Grumman to date, and much of the technology developed for the APG-77 is used in the APG-81 radar for the F-35 Lightning II.

      And there is nothing about the LP mode. It's immediately obvious that you're fake. Is it hard to prove your sayings?
      1. 0
        19 July 2019 20: 07
        It is believed that the range 400 km and more with APG-77v1 with newer GaAs modules possible with using narrower beams.(Dead link [3])

        And how was it possible to quote illiterate statements from an English-language site on Wikipedia... Horror!
        1. 0
          20 July 2019 20: 46
          SETSET, the Russian section of Wikipedia does not have to be simply a translation from the English section. Articles are written and supplemented by different authors. What makes you think this is nonsense? This is an unfounded statement, because for each statement the authors provide links to primary sources (this is required by Wikipedia rules).
          Regarding the operating range in LPI mode, you can follow link 1 to the globalsecurity.org website and check this data. Subscription for a month costs $25, for a year - $200 smile So there is no fake, check it.
          And I, in turn, expect confirmation from you of these words:
          Quote: SETSET
          N036 "Squirrel", also known under the code Ш-121. The transmit-receive modules of the active phased array antenna are made of the highest quality direct-gap semiconductor - gallium nitride (GaN).
  61. 0
    10 August 2019 09: 33
    "And the battlefield rests on tanks...."

    In my opinion, this is a generally stupid way to pose the question. As far as I know, there is front-line aviation, to which the Mig-29 belonged, and there is aviation for gaining air superiority, i.e. Su-27 and, as a continuation, Su-37. So what is this article about? Why are warm and soft compared?
  62. 0
    4 September 2019 10: 09
    There is no AFAR on the Typhoon, in any case, there is no talk of “for a long time” - there, just like the Mig, it actually doesn’t exist.
  63. 0
    2 October 2019 20: 49
    The author is completely "off topic". This can be seen in the phrases:

    We are talking about the "Beetle-A." We will not talk in detail about the advantages of AFAR, however, this technology gives almost complete superiority in terms of quality over older radars, for example, radars with a passive phased antenna array, which, in particular, is equipped with the Su-35S.

    The weight of an empty MiG-35 is significantly greater than the weight of an empty F-15C, which in Russia is considered by many to be a “heavy” fighter.

    The military took a rather strange path, purchasing large quantities of Su fighters that have the same purpose, but completely different sets of on-board electronics. And in general, they differ exactly as much as aircraft made on the same basis can differ (in our case, the Su-27). In general, it is quite difficult to understand why the Su-30SM was purchased in parallel with the Su-35S, which, among other things, seems to be a much more modern machine. After all, the Su-30SM is, in a broad sense, simply a “Russified” version of the far from new Su-30MKI. And we are silent about the Su-27SM3, Su-30M2 and MiG-29SMT.

    I have a question: if you cannot understand the reasons for ordering certain aircraft, then why are you writing “scientific” articles on these topics?
  64. 0
    4 October 2019 03: 00
    The author and commentators need to know that what you read on Wikipedia, including in Russian, was edited by a CIA group to make everything Soviet and Russian look worse than American.

    For example, “The MiG-35 is heavier than the F-15,” this is false.

    Empty weight.

    Wikipedia: F-15 12 kg. MiG-700 35 kg

    Wikipedia, to make it look official, states:

    “All characteristics are given in accordance with the data of JSC Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG.”

    But, if you go to RSK MiG:

    RSK MiG Empty weight of MiG-35 11 kg

    In addition, the author does not mention the most striking advantage of the MiG over all competitors and over all Sushki:

    Super maneuverability with OVT.

    With OVT, the MiG-35 can spin around some aircraft, as demonstrated by the MiG-29 OVT.

    It’s in vain that Russia underestimates the combat and commercial potential of this particular version of the 35th.

    In this case, the CIA wins for now.
  65. 0
    9 November 2020 16: 48
    Ilya Legat needs to be appointed Minister of Defense! With this approach, they will stop building airplanes in Russia and will buy them from Turkey, for example. Military review is no longer objective, which is a pity.
  66. The comment was deleted.
  67. 0
    7 May 2021 02: 06
    The entire school of Russian aircraft manufacturing is probably queuing up to the author Legate for advice.
  68. 0
    24 December 2021 19: 12
    I can’t understand, are there enemies working in VO?