Why do we lose long-range air combat? Loss of initiative as a pattern

132
As you remember, in our early reviews we repeatedly touched on the extremely acute for fighter aviation regiments of the Russian Aerospace Forces, the problem of insufficient anti-aircraft and anti-missile potentials associated with the lack of advanced guided long-range air combat missiles in the ammunition of combat vehicles capable of intercepting enemy maneuvering air targets directly near the extreme boundaries of the range of action (at a distance from 90 to 160 km and more from the launch site). The final point in all disputes on this score was set by two very painful events for the aviation component of the Russian Aerospace Forces.





The formation of "Meteor" and "freezing" of the P-77PD deprived the fighter aviation regiments of the VCS of the initiative in long-range air combat


First of all, it is freezing or “putting it on the back burner” of finalizing the long-range advanced RVV-AE-PD development program (“180-PD Product”) equipped with the 371 high-energy integrated CRDT-TT rocket engine ( due to the presence of a computerized system for regulating the supply of the gas generator to the combustion chamber) allows the rocket to maintain speed in 1,7 — 2M and the ability to realize overload in 25 — 35 units. even on the terminal part of the trajectory (in 160 — 170 km from the vanishing point). Consequently, this type of powerplant would allow future F-XNUMHPDs to destroy fighters, high-speed RCs and other high-precision weapons the enemy, maneuvering with overloads 12 — 17G.

Reached the level of initial combat readiness of air-to-air missiles RVV-SD (“Product 170-1”), equipped with single-mode solid-fuel rocket engines, do not possess such qualities. Indeed, aerodynamic deceleration, which begins immediately after the burnout of a solid propellant charge, slows the rocket down to 1,4 — 1,2М and lower at a distance of all 80 — 90 km, and therefore the level of “energy maneuvering” necessary for interception cannot be achieved even using lattice aerodynamic rudders capable of operating at angles of attack in 40 degrees).

Secondly, this is the acquisition of operational readiness in 2016 by the brainchild of the European military-industrial corporation MBDA - the long-range air combat missile “Meteor”, equipped with an integrated rocket-ramjet engine-analogue of the KPRPT-TT “371”, as well as the prospect of a speedy first production a prototype of an even more advanced product JNAAM, developed by the British division of MBDA in collaboration with the Japanese company Mitsubishi Electric Corporation and the Technology Research and Development Institute. The JNAAM project envisages the development of a long-range URVV, the hull and powerplant of which will be borrowed from Meteor, and the inertial navigation system and active radar seeker from the modern Japanese air combat missile AAM-4B.

Here, it’s not at all that some of our observers have yielded patriotic exclamations about the unique parameters of the only Russian ultra-long-range URVV P-37 / RVV-BD, because the high-energy and ultra-active active FAR millimeters will be the basis for JNAAM's self-guiding head. / W-ranges, represented by nitride-gallium transceiver modules. And no matter how unpleasant it is for us to realize this, but the aforementioned ARGSN will have much more delicate accuracy of “capturing” targets in comparison with domestic “slotted” active 9B-1103М-200PA / PS and 9Б-1103М-350 radar sensors installed on missiles RVV-SD and RVV-BD ("Product 610M"). The ability to select targets with a small EPR against the background of the use of dipole reflectors and the setting of targeted frequency response noise interference will be the most valuable quality promising HLS JNAAM missiles. Heavy interceptors of the Р-37 / РВВ-БД family can not be considered as a means of destroying highly maneuverable ballistic and aerodynamic objects, since disposable overloads of the first hardly reach 22 — 25 units.

For "Meteors" will follow JATM. Not "straight-through", but just as dangerous


Nevertheless, the commissioning of the air forces and fleets of Great Britain and France and Japan, as well as the German and Swedish air forces of the Meteor and JNAAM air combat missiles (to equip the JAS-39C / D / E, Typhoon, Rafale ”, as well as F-35A / B) will not be the only test for the Russian videoconferencing, as well as for the competitiveness of the products of the Scientific-Research Institute“ Agat ”and JSC“ GosMKB “Vympel” in the global arms market.

The latest information about the consequences of the arms race that has broken out between the Middle Kingdom and the United States in the development of promising long-range air combat missiles pushes towards such reflections. One of these consequences is the launch of the promising AIM-260 JATM (Joint Advanced Tactical Missile) development program, which should be a worthy substitute for the AIM-120C-8 / D AMRAAM missiles in service with the Air Force and the US Navy. The start of R & D implementation of this project was announced by US Air Force Brigadier General Anthony Genatempo on 20 in June 2019 and presented to the media as an asymmetric response to the successful acquisition of operational combat readiness by the Chinese air-to-air missile PL-15, equipped with a "long-playing" ramjet engine.

Carefully evaluate the already well-known technical qualities, the appearance of on-board radio-electronic equipment, as well as the average cost of large-scale assembly of the Meteor MBDA integrated rocket-ramjet thrusters, experts from the Lockheed Martin military-industrial corporation and the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL). ) came to the conclusion that the development of a long-range hypersonic two-stage interceptor missile in one of two system configurations can be a much more economically feasible solution. boards, each of which will cost significantly less than the 2,27 millionth "Meteor". This conclusion suggests itself after careful monitoring of American and Western European analytical resources, on the pages of which you can find several sketches-demonstrators of the future AIM-260.

The first concept (also known as “Long Range Engagement Weapon”) is a two-stage long-range URVV with a developed acceleration-march stage, having a two-mode solid rocket motor that provides acceleration to 4,5 — 5,5 speed and an exit to a ballistic trajectory with apogee in 30 — 35 km, as well as combat-interceptor with aerodynamic controls.

Judging by the sketch, the acceleration-marching stage can be borrowed from the anti-aircraft guided missile RIM-162 ESSM together with the single-chamber dual-mode solid propellant rocket motor Mk 134 Mod0. This is evidenced by the aerodynamic booster circuit for the AIM-162 JATM, represented by the wings of low elongation with a huge chord running along the entire length of the body, as well as stepped edges in the front and rear parts of the stabilizer wings, similar to the RIM-260 ESSM case. Another subject of similarity between the ESSM and the AIM-260 accelerator can be considered similar trapezoid-shaped aerodynamic rudders, allowing the use of JATM in melee air combat (“dogdog”) or mid-range combat. To this end, the booster stage can be equipped with a gas-jet thrust vector deflection system.

As for the layout and parameters of the combat stage of the first concept (LREW) AIM-260, we can talk about a maneuvering kinetic interceptor, designed according to the “duck” scheme with a tail block of stabilizers and front aerodynamic control surfaces, providing the ability to perform maneuvers with overloads up to 35 units . at the time of the dive to the target from the upper stratosphere. At the same time, targeting accuracy can be achieved only through the use of AFAR-ARGSN. At the same time, the above control system effectively intercepts only aerodynamic targets (tactical fighters and reconnaissance ships), maneuvering with overloads of no more than 10 — 17G, and only until the combat stage is slowed down to 1,3 — 1,2М when the rudders lose their aerodynamic properties.


The second concept of a promising ultra-long-range air combat missile AIM-260 JATM


Therefore, the most likely result of R & D on the JATM project could be the development of the second AIM-260 concept, represented by the same acceleration march stage from the improved Sparrow Marine and a unique combat stage of kinetic interception, borrowed from the CUDA / SACM perspective project of self-defense CUDA / T. What does this mean? First of all, about equipping the kinetic interceptor with a belt unit of several hundreds of gas-dynamic control impulse engines, providing “spatial throws” with overloads from 60 to 70G.

And due to the fact that the control unit of the on-board computer will continuously receive information from millimeter AFAR-ARGSN, the destruction of small targets can be achieved using the direct hit-to-kill method. It is quite logical that AIM-260 JATM in this version can be used not only in fulfilling the tasks of gaining air supremacy and long-range interception by enemy tactical aviation, but also in the network-centric systems of zonal-object and regional air defense-missile defense, ensuring the destruction of 30- multiple overloads of warheads of promising ballistic missiles of short and medium range.
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  1. +17
    4 July 2019 15: 12
    We lose the long-range battle not in the absence of missiles. There is a complex of problems. And the radar and simply overwhelmingly numerically the NATO countries and missiles of course.
    1. +2
      4 July 2019 15: 18
      Quote: 210ox
      We lose the long-range battle not in the absence of missiles. There is a set of problems.

      Really, "MiG Alley"as a definition of the status for enemy aircraft:" There is nothing to meddle in, they will shoot down ", can be renamed to"mall F", with the morbid status of" prohibited entry "for the aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces?

      Are the problems so deep and critical? Is the war of "constructors" and technology lost?
      1. +45
        4 July 2019 15: 34
        One must of course be proud of the victories of our grandfathers. But you are aware that by the end of the war in Korea, there were no targets left for American aviation in S. Korea, they bombed everything, even bridges over streams.
        and ...
        Football match Russia - Germany.
        Russia is losing 3: 0. An old Russian grandfather sits on the podium and swears: "Oh, you idlers! What are you doing! I beat these Fritzes near Stalingrad!"
        A Georgian sits next to him and says: "Eeee daragoy, then the coach was different."
        1. +15
          4 July 2019 15: 44
          Quote: YOUR
          "Eee daragoy, then the coach was different"

          And the coach was right. And he knew how to pick up players. And for the game, I could ask.

          I repeat my thesis, which is extremely not popular, for some:
          - The old man surrendered ... With age, he is more and more attracted to liberal things ...

          There is no more exactingness and rigidity that was at the beginning of the 2 thousandths ... Well, what a heap of problems in the state, decades unsolved, external and internal will go to the heir / receiver?
          Think, Vladimir Vladimirovich ... Russia, after all, this is not just a "close circle" ...
          1. -1
            4 July 2019 17: 00
            you are wrong, Stalin was preparing for war from the 28th (the first three five-year periods when Trotsky was kicked out - industrialization) and that time wasn’t enough; the 3rd should have ended in the 42nd, this was before Hitler - and even the USA could speak at Hitler’s side, it was only after December 7, 1941 when their Japanese bent to Pere Harbor it became easier ...
            The war has its own accounting department, and you still "play" in Chapaev, you can not always take a bang (even Vasya, Stalin's son, told a friend that dad WAS Georgian, a different mentality)
            1. -1
              4 July 2019 17: 05
              Quote: Rostislav Bely
              you are wrong, Stalin was preparing for war from the 28th

              Have I written somewhere about preparing for war?

              Read my comment again, and perhaps, you will see that nothing more than a cursory comparison of the qualities of Stalin and Putin is contained in it.
              You, "suffered" ...
              1. +1
                4 July 2019 17: 14
                here I am about this - to "shoot" a couple of "Bluchers" (he, instead of leading the troops at Lake Hasan, washed down with the women) and everything is tip-top - you are susceptible to ideological sabotage, for you everything is Zugzwang (German) - such the wall was set for alarmism and sabotage under Joseph ...
                1. 0
                  4 July 2019 17: 21
                  Quote: Rostislav Bely
                  all for you is Zugzwang (German) - such people were put on the wall for alarmism and sabotage under Joseph ...

                  Come on, you are talking unimaginable nonsense, "on your own wave" ...
                  1. -3
                    4 July 2019 17: 24
                    learn to play chess (Zugzwang), and one woman from the category of competency said one woman selling seeds at the bazaar ...
            2. +7
              4 July 2019 21: 15
              only in Georgia there is no order either, which means that not the mentality is important, but the personality ...
              1. +7
                5 July 2019 22: 45
                The sabotage was under Khrushchev, when the development of counterintelligence of the party nomenclature became criminally punishable - draw conclusions traitor Kalugin studied with the bastard Yakovlev (the second person after Hunchback) in one educational institution: 1958 - 1959 - under the program of the Fulbright Foundation for the study of journalism, Kalugin was in the operational an internship at Columbia University in New York (USA) in the same group with A. Yakovlev, at that time - a graduate student of the Academy of Social Sciences under the Central Committee of the CPSU (the main disinfector, fake committee of USSR citizens - ideological sabotage) ... draw conclusions
              2. -6
                6 July 2019 12: 27
                Quote: assault
                only in Georgia there is no order either, which means that not the mentality is important, but the personality ...

                We went with my family to Georgia last year. Just great. "Order" incl.
            3. +16
              4 July 2019 22: 32
              Stalin had to do everything from scratch. But Putin got everything that Stalin Khrushchev and Brezhnev did. And on the baggage of the USSR, he rode for 20 years.
              1. +5
                5 July 2019 07: 32
                Quote: Victor Biryukov
                But Putin got everything that Stalin Khrushchev and Brezhnev did.

                The list is not complete. You forgot a couple of predecessors. Although, it may be right that they forgot.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            4. +2
              5 July 2019 00: 45
              Stalin is preparing for war. We are talking about the fact that the war is about to begin at all angles, but you see how the preparation goes.
            5. 0
              5 July 2019 14: 07
              Stalin was preparing for war on the 28th

              What, are you blocking out our resident? Let me remind you that Putin had 20 years to boost the economy and figs for you, while Stalin succeeded in less time.
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. +4
                  5 July 2019 23: 23
                  Not all of the Trotskyist-pro-intelligence officers were then put up against the wall - under Beria there were later rehabilitations, and the executioners were put up against the wall, it's a pity the Khrushchev "khokhlov"
                2. -2
                  6 July 2019 17: 37
                  Oh, enough about 7 spikelets and other nonsense. If you sort it out, they planted it for something completely different. For theft and sabotage. And the story of 7 spikelets and other things was invented a little later under Khrushchev.
                3. 0
                  6 July 2019 20: 47
                  The people have long been at the bottom and are ready for any industrialization. The question is, IS THE ELITE READY? Because they have a resource and they will have to put it into business. If something can be done at the expense of the upper classes, not the lower classes.
                4. 0
                  7 July 2019 10: 22
                  Always ready! Though the threads will begin to produce ...
              2. +4
                5 July 2019 23: 15
                you are wrong - Stalin had a Party - first, the "Lenin" appeal (since 1924 - a forced thing to keep the Soviet power), a side effect of anti-Semitism in the party (in the museum there is a letter from Lenin's sister of those times about condemning anti-Semitism in the party with the statement that grandfather Blank was a Jew), and then they broke Trotsky with his get-togethers and shaker-mongering affairs with the states - mind you then the army was reduced to half a million to raise the economy (universal conscription only at the end of the 39th) ... Putin came to the colonial state , torn apart by civil strife (much worse positions), there was no support - as a whim of Yeltsin, no one took it seriously (but we are moving towards a directive economy (planned) - remember Grozny, he also had an elected Rada in 1540-50, etc., but it was easier. ..

                The demands of a greater representation of the workers in the RCP (B.) Begin to sound at least from the 1921th congress of XNUMX, when representatives of the "workers' opposition" headed by A. Shlyapnikov criticized Lenin, expressing dissatisfaction that he "deceived the workers and peasants." ”, And the workers themselves were actually ruled by intellectuals on their behalf.
                Researcher M. S. Voslensky draws attention to the historical first composition of the Council of People's Commissars, in which of the 16 people only two were workers — V. P. Nogin and A. G. Shlyapnikov. In addition, there were three nobles in the first composition of the Council of People's Commissars: Lenin (Ulyanov) V.I., Lunacharsky A.G. and Oppokov (Lomov) G.I. Such a composition of the government did not suit the party that proclaimed itself the "proletarian vanguard."
          2. +4
            5 July 2019 06: 14
            Quote: Separ DNR
            Think, Vladimir Vladimirovich ... Russia, after all, this is not just a "close circle" ...

            If he had thought, he would not have put Medvedev to prime ministers and to write down the law on pension reform. And, to explain to people how good and necessary it is (for whom ???) to cross out five years of life and give a million to all sorts of people who can, with a dirty conscience, again steal all assets abroad, is the height of TALE WISDOM.
            1. +4
              5 July 2019 11: 06
              ROSS 42 (42 region) Today, 06:14
              If he had thought, he would not have put Medvedev to prime ministers and to write down the law on pension reform.

              Dear viewers, hello as always! And again, in our program about the capabilities of the F-35 and the DVB missiles in service with NATO countries, we discuss Prime Minister Medvedev and the pension reform. Why them, why exactly here and how they relate to the RVV "Meteor" - is known only to the cockroaches of Mr.ROSS 42 (42 region) laughing
              1. -1
                5 July 2019 14: 11
                Yes, because we cannot make such missiles because of a weak economy and because of weak managers. Why is all this weak? This question is just for Putin and Medvedev.
                So comrade ROSS 42 cockroaches are "correct and quick-witted" unlike your cockroaches.
                1. +3
                  5 July 2019 14: 46
                  So comrade ROSS 42 cockroaches are "correct and quick-witted" unlike your cockroaches.

                  then offer VO (site "Military Review") rename the site "screams for Putin" or whatever you like. I am personally interested in discussing the technique here, its possibilities of using it, to learn news from the world of arms, and not to read your constant and the same howl "Putin sold everyone," "a beggar country," "thieves-oligarchs." Read it practically in each an article on IN zadolbalo !!! Let me banned, but you and your ROSS 42 are sitting in the liver!
                  1. +4
                    5 July 2019 14: 51
                    Okay, I propose to rename the site to Military-Political Review, because without a correct policy there will be no correct weapons. Politics is always primary, and what you propose is called opportunism.
                    1. +2
                      5 July 2019 14: 58
                      Okay, I propose to rename the site to Military-Political Review, because without a correct policy there will be no correct weapons. Politics is always primary, and what you propose is called opportunism.

                      you are not fixable. Campaign is a clinical case. Interestingly, you and your wife in bed, instead of sex, are also discussing Putin and Medvedev? No, it’s not interesting.
                  2. 0
                    7 July 2019 02: 51
                    A thousand pluses to you. Of the hundreds of comments on articles on armaments, on the topic of ten percent, everything else is drunk.
              2. -6
                5 July 2019 15: 59
                Quote: Ka-52
                known only to cockroaches of mister ROSS 42 (42 region)

                Tomorrow I’ll be laughing all Saturday. There, at the beginning of the post, there is a quote to which I replied.
                stop Yes, if you think that something happens in the country of Russia according to the will of Andreev, and not with the will of Vladimirov and Dmitriev, then fellow и wassat
                1. +3
                  5 July 2019 17: 56
                  You would not laugh, and heal in the clinic is worth it. In the clinic for honorary people with intellectual disabilities. There is such a thing - flood. This is when they post a bunch of comments off topic. So here you are, dear, engaged in outright flooding. You yourself do not have any clarifications of consciousness when you still understand that flooding is not good?
          3. +5
            5 July 2019 11: 18
            He has always been so, creating illusions is his strongest trait. All success, it is a derivative of oil prices.))
        2. +5
          5 July 2019 11: 01
          YOUR (Vladimir) Yesterday, 15:34
          One must of course be proud of the victories of our grandfathers. But you are aware that by the end of the war in Korea, there were no targets left for American aviation in S. Korea, they bombed everything, even bridges over streams.

          mdaaa .... iron "facts". Just why do you bring them? In the hope that simpletons will believe and lead? Anyone more or less familiar with the Korean War will say that:
          1. In Korea, American aviation confronted total 2 Iads, that is, from 100 (at the beginning) to 200 (at the end) of aircraft. For understanding, the combined forces had about 1500. Do you think this is a correct comparison of opportunities?
          2. The area where we could use our aircraft (which was called above "Aley of MiGs") was approximately 1/10 of the territory of Korea. And they were forbidden to fly south of Pyongyang. Do you think this is a correct description of the cover zones?
    2. +16
      4 July 2019 16: 12
      Yes, the illiteracy of Damantsev is evident - "everything is gone" ... It is ugly to compare the RVV-BD of the R-37 type of the 80s of the last century, without mentioning the RVV-BD R-37M missile of the latest developments in Russia, which is in service. Damantsev simply has no data on the development of the latest Russian missiles. And also to compare with Western models, which are only being developed and which are not in service ... Moreover, the range of US and NATO missiles does not exceed 180 km, including Meteor missiles. Apparently Damantsev does not know that the overload capacity when maneuvering 22g-25g is enough to intercept F-22, F-35 and other aircraft ... When overloading, the pilot cannot withstand more than 10g. Anti-aircraft missiles of the 40N6 type you cannot guarantee to shoot down with an interceptor with an overload capacity of 70g when maneuvering. And keep in mind that the modified ARGSN head of the 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the RVV-BD R-37 of the first issues. Learn materiel, Damantsev!
      1. +2
        4 July 2019 16: 31
        Dear Damantsev! You still apparently forgot that the range of the RVV-BD missiles in Russia: R-37M - D = 300 km, KS-172 (under development) - D = 400 km ... This is a serious plus in ranged combat, given that the latest radar systems of Russian aircraft have a longer range than the radar stations of the US and NATO ...
      2. +5
        4 July 2019 18: 24
        Only now, the R 37M is already outdated, since the maximum target overload for it is only 8g, it will go off against enemy bombers, but against fighters, new hypersonic missiles and drones, it’s already gone.
        1. -3
          4 July 2019 19: 10
          Vadim237! You are mistaken, relying on inaccurate data ... R-37M with overload when maneuvering 22g-25g will easily hit any modern fighter, like F-22, F-35 and any other modern fighter with overload 10g - you can calculate, and not just with 8g overload - data in the public domain is underestimated.
          Quote: Eugene Damantsev.
          Heavy R-37 / RVV-BD family interceptor missiles cannot be considered as means of destruction highly maneuverable
          ballistic and aerodynamic objectsbecause the available overloads of the first barely reach 22-25 units.

          Damantsev is right and does not write about airplanes - they are a priori and especially apostori, will be destroyed, given the hypersonic speed of 6M at the final stage of the R-37M rocket and the flight algorithm. In addition, the image intensifier of the R-37m rocket is 0,04-0,05 square meters. meter. But there is no exact data on the R-37M rocket in the public domain - no one has canceled the principle of secrecy.
        2. 0
          4 July 2019 23: 58
          Oh, yes, against subsonic droneless you have now very boldly assumed. The Persians right now began to laugh out loud
          1. -1
            5 July 2019 11: 41
            I do not say that against subsonic, I meant such drones as
            - which will take off in the 20s.
        3. +2
          5 July 2019 11: 13
          Vadim237 (Vadim) Yesterday, 18: 2
          new hypersonic missiles and drones - no longer

          I wonder what side overload with hypersonic missiles and drones? Both of these are low-maneuvering goals. Overload occurs when a sharp change in the goal of its trajectory (course angle) of movement. For example, when maneuvering with the aim of knocking down the capture of a missile’s seeker, to go beyond its coordinator - the so-called anti-ballistic maneuvering. What does the concept of negative and positive overload. Negative PBMs are tolerated worse (that is, the range here is less) than positive.
      3. nks
        +5
        4 July 2019 20: 20
        Quote: SETSET
        R-37M latest developments of Russia, which is in service

        It’s rather arbitrarily located in the armed forces that it is not, and in general, with such a mass, its applicability is limited

        [quote = SETSETpilot greater than 10g does not withstand [/ quote]
        It withstands it for a short time, although it does not really matter here.
      4. +3
        4 July 2019 21: 15
        Learn materiel, Damantsev!

        the P-77 rocket (publ. 170) has a flight speed in the final section of Mach 4, and not deceleration to Mach 1,4 - Mach 1,2
      5. 0
        4 July 2019 21: 56
        You cannot guarantee to shoot down 40H6 anti-aircraft missiles with an interceptor with an overload capacity of 70g when maneuvering.
        ...
        Will be able. Indeed, often, at the terminal stage of an attack, an enemy aircraft 40N6 will not maneuver, because the use of a frequency-coordinated active noise interference from an enemy aircraft against its head will not allow it to capture a target at range. And in such a situation 40N6 will attack the enemy using the "three-point" method, ... without any own maneuvering ..
        1. +2
          5 July 2019 00: 01
          You are pretty wrong
        2. 0
          5 July 2019 00: 42
          Seventh, read carefully, it is written - when maneuvering, a 40N6 missile with an overload of 45g cannot be shot down by an interceptor performing a maneuver with an overload of 70 g.
          The ARGSN 40N6 homing head is immune to electronic warfare. ".
          1. +2
            5 July 2019 10: 56
            "45 versus 70" with this, everything has been clear for a long time, you just DO NOT want to understand that maneuvering 40N6 on the terminal segment of the target's attack trajectory with an overload of 45, in the absence of information about the range to the target in the head of the missile defense system, is guaranteed to cause LOST 40N6 by Non-maneuvering target, as a result of OWN MANEUVERAGE !!
            The 40N6 head cannot distinguish at reception .... its own, reflected from the target, electromagnetic oscillations of the probing signal from ... the enemy interference EM signals poured into it at the same frequency. As a result, at the reception she has a "mess in her head", and not information about the range to the target. Even the "S-400 head" cannot fight, when determining the range to the target, with such interference and is forced in such situations to use methods of determining the range based on triangulation, using additional radars spaced apart in space. The 40H6 head has no such possibilities, as you might guess. Do not operate with "religious" dogmas of military-technical propaganda, use them exclusively as a guide to the activities of your consciousness ...
            1. +1
              5 July 2019 15: 42
              Seventh, horror, complete ignorance. Learn radar, radio engineering, RPU, RPDU ... Do not forget the propagation of electromagnetic waves and their attenuation.
              1. 0
                5 July 2019 16: 53
                Thank you, kaneshno ... and even though your flattery is a little clumsy, I don't care ... it's nice ..)
      6. 0
        5 July 2019 12: 04
        Learn materiel, Damantsev!
        Damantsev at least confirms his words with at least some details: "the optional R-37M upgrade package, in comparison with the regular R-37, includes only a more advanced data exchange bus, which allows it to be used not only in Foxhound ammunition, but in kits weapons Su-57, as well as the transitional generation "4 ++" Su-30SM and Su-35S ". Plus ARGSN 9B-1103M-350. It turns out that their range and maneuvering capabilities are the same.
        40G6 anti-aircraft missile head ARGSN can easily be used on the RVV-BD R-37
        You didn’t notice the difference in the mass and size of the missiles, or just hat-making?
        And if you still know something about the R-37M - about new engines, over-maneuverability, then tell us, and not engage in unfounded propaganda statements.
        1. +2
          5 July 2019 16: 02
          vic02, it's not good to lie ... I can read too.
          Quote: vic02
          Damantsev at least confirms his words with at least some details: "the optional R-37M upgrade package, in comparison with the regular R-37, includes only a more advanced data exchange bus, which allows it to be used not only in Foxhound ammunition, but in kits weapons Su-57, as well as the transitional generation "4 ++" Su-30SM and Su-35S ". Plus ARGSN 9B-1103M-350. It turns outthat range they have the same maneuvering capabilities.

          Children's Internet babble and no more ... And do not write false data - but this article does not.
          Quote: vic02
          the optional update package R-37M in comparison with the usual R-37 includes ... and so on ... 2

          You are completely off topic ...
          1. 0
            5 July 2019 16: 57
            vic02, do not consciously distort my dictum:
            Quote: SETSET
            And keep in mind modified the ARGSN head of the 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the first releases of the RVV-BD R-37.

            Quote: vic02
            40G6 anti-aircraft missile head ARGSN can easily be used on the RVV-BD R-37

            Quote: vic02
            You didn’t notice the difference in the mass and size of the missiles, or just hat-making?

            Learn Russian if you don’t know how to read or deliberately distort the meaning of my words.
            1. -4
              8 July 2019 08: 43
              not good to lie ... I can read too
              setset, you cannot read articles. If you haven’t read Damantsev’s other articles, then at least the search could have been used, or were you banned from Google with Yandex? Damantsev's article "Fatal hypersound! Will the R-37M ensure dominance over NATO aircraft without a direct-flow partner?" published on this portal on 28 September 2018
              You are completely off topic ...
              You declare that, as it were, "in the subject", but do not go further than unfounded declarations. As a result, unlike Damantsev's articles, what you have written is idle talk.
              modified head ARGSN anti-aircraft missiles 40N6
              There is a category of people for whom there is no problem, for example, installing a 152 mm cannon on a T-34 tank, the main thing is that it will not come to practical implementation and combat use. Not only will the reduction of the diameter of the propulsion system in itself require in the worst case a complete recalculation and redesign of its individual elements, but then the same will need to be done with the installation itself and with the rocket as a whole.
              What do you intend to squeeze in the existing R-37M: fuel, warhead, avionics with radar?
              Have you forgotten about subsequent tests with improvements to this practically new rocket?
              Or maybe taking into account this hemorrhoid it is more expedient to make another rocket with a backlog in the future?
              1. 0
                8 July 2019 11: 23
                vic02 (victor), you not only cannot read, you absolutely do not understand the meaning of what you read, which is obvious among "friends" from Israel, who use translators when writing their messages, and in view of this, distortions arise in translation. And I try to read Damantsev's articles from time to time, as there are a lot of blunders and inaccuracies in them, especially in the field of radar ... And now I will repeat about you:
                Quote: vic02
                Damantsev at least confirms his words with at least some details: "the optional R-37M upgrade package, in comparison with the regular R-37, includes only a more advanced data exchange bus, which allows it to be used not only in Foxhound ammunition, but in kits weapons Su-57, as well as the transitional generation "4 ++" Su-30SM and Su-35S ". Plus ARGSN 9B-1103M-350. It turns outthat range and they have the same maneuvering capabilities.

                Where did you get such conclusions: " It turns outthat range and do they have the same maneuvering capabilities? One does not follow from the other, according to your statements. Are you sure that the R-37M really has ARGSN 9B-1103M-350, and not a modified (improved) version of it - you and Damantsev do not know this, so I wrote to you: "Children's Internet babble and no more ... And do not write false data - this is not in the article. "
                Quote: Yevgeny Damantsev
                And no matter how unpleasant it may be to realize this, the aforementioned ARGSN will have much more filigree accuracy of “target capture” in comparison with the domestic “slotted” active radar sensors 9B-1103M-200PA / PS and 9B-1103M-350 mounted on missiles RVV-SD and RVV-BD (“Product 610M”).

                To this I wrote:
                Quote: SETSET
                ... And keep in mind, the modified head of the ARGSN 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the RVV-BD R-37 of the first releases ...

                And you, vic02 (Victor), could not understand the meaning! The principle of operation of these homing heads is the same - both ARGSN. And it is not difficult for Russian designers to create new ARGSN for R-37 missiles of the first releases - that’s the whole point of my expression. And E. Damantsev has only speculations from the realm of fiction - about designed missiles of the West and the United States - will be, are being designed, will follow and so on. Some assumptions ... And about Russian missiles, some statements, not knowing about new samples. This is more reminiscent of liberal strategists - "everything is lost" and further unfounded hysteria follow.
                Quote: vic02
                Not only will the reduction of the diameter of the propulsion system in itself require in the worst case a complete recalculation and redesign of its individual elements, but then the same will need to be done with the installation itself and with the rocket as a whole.
                What do you intend to squeeze in the existing R-37M: fuel, warhead, avionics with radar?
                Have you forgotten about subsequent tests with improvements to this practically new rocket?
                Or maybe taking into account this hemorrhoid it is more expedient to make another rocket with a backlog in the future?

                Did I really expect to change the propulsion system and layout of the R-37M missiles? No. Do not write your assumptions without understanding the meaning - the conversation was about installing new ARGSNs on old R-37 models ... and if it is necessary to modify or release new RVV-DB models, this is decided by Russian designers, not readers of the VO site.
                1. -1
                  9 July 2019 08: 41
                  setset, you have another idle talk. Trying to find fault with my words, but in essence you have no arguments against the one presented in the article! wink
                  Your arguments are just pearls of ignorance
                  The principle of operation of these homing heads is the same - both ARGSN
                  , so I gave the analogy correctly. In your opinion, it turns out, for example, that the T-14 is a modification of the T-34, and the Intel i7 Coffee Lake is a modification of the Pentium MMX, and the MiG-29 is a modification of the Su-27 and vice versa. About your
                  not difficult to create new
                  belay if a person has not created anything in life, it will always seem to him that labor is worthless. Although at the present time, all of the Russian leadership thinks so.
            2. 0
              8 July 2019 10: 10
              the modified ARGSN head of the 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the first releases of the RVV-BD R-37
              Yes, I apologize, this is about ARGSN, not about gas-dynamic control, but what does this change? A radar with a computer for a diameter of 0,6, controlling a rocket with a launch mass of 2,5 tons with a warhead of 180 kg, is it "easy" to push into a diameter of 0,4 for a rocket of 600 kg with a warhead of 60 kg? And, well, yes, it will have to be "modified". feel Well, why not immediately push the modified avionics from the MiG-31 there?
              1. +1
                8 July 2019 11: 48
                vic02 (victor), the horror that you write ... You apparently do not understand the meaning of the word modification.
                Quote: SETSET

                ... and keep in mind modified the ARGSN head of the 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the RVV-BD R-37 of the first releases ...

                Quote: vic02
                Yes, I apologize, we are talking about ARGSN, and not about gas dynamic control, but what does it change? A radar with a computer for a diameter of 0,6, controlling a rocket with a launch mass of 2,5 tons with a warhead of 180 kg, is it "easy" to push into a diameter of 0,4 for a rocket of 600 kg with a warhead of 60 kg? And, well, yes, it will have to be "modified". Well, why not just push the modified avionics from the MiG-31 into it?

                This is all your fiction and no more ... Read above and do not write nonsense.
                1. -1
                  9 July 2019 09: 01
                  Again, nothing in essence. Maybe Damantsev doesn't know something, some of your "arguments", like
                  complete illiteracy. Learn radar, radio engineering, RPU, RPDU ...
                  you have on this topic request
                  1. 0
                    9 July 2019 20: 41
                    vic02, a young strategist with ...
                    According to his own sayings:
                    Quote: vic02
                    Quote: SETSET
                    It is not difficult for Russian designers to create new ARGSN for R-37 missiles of the first releases - that’s the whole point of my expression.

                    if a person has not created anything in life, it will always seem to him that labor is worthless. Although at the present time, all of the Russian leadership thinks so.

                    Learn to correctly express your thoughts in Russian. Keep liberal stories to yourself and stop doing demagogy. Do not engage in verbiage ...
                    Quote: vic02
                    Your arguments are just pearls of ignorance
                    Quote: SETSET

                    And you, vic02 (Victor), could not understand the meaning! The principle of operation of these homing heads is the same - both ARGSN. And it is not difficult for Russian designers to create new ARGSN for R-37 missiles of the first releases - that’s the whole point of my expression.

                    , so I gave the analogy correctly. Do you think it turns out, for example, that the T-14 is a modification of the T-34, and the Intel i7 Coffee Lake is a modification of the Pentium MMX, and the MiG-29 is a modification of the Su-27 and vice versa.

                    Horror! How old are you? Before you engage in dialogue, you need to grow up, because you don’t understand the meaning of Russian words and expressions, and at a child’s level you reason ... Trying to tear my words and expressions out of context and distort their meaning!
                    Therefore, I have given my full statements here.
      7. 0
        5 July 2019 22: 24
        Quote: SETSET
        not mentioning the RVV-BD R-37M missile of the latest developments of Russia, which is in service.
        Where to read about arming?
      8. 0
        10 July 2019 00: 35
        Quote: SETSET
        Yes, the illiteracy of Damantsev is evident - "everything is gone" ... It is ugly to compare the RVV-BD of the R-37 type of the 80s of the last century, without mentioning the RVV-BD R-37M missile of the latest developments in Russia, which is in service. Damantsev simply has no data on the development of the latest Russian missiles. And also to compare with Western models, which are only being developed and which are not in service ... Moreover, the range of US and NATO missiles does not exceed 180 km, including Meteor missiles. Apparently Damantsev does not know that the overload capacity when maneuvering 22g-25g is enough to intercept F-22, F-35 and other aircraft ... When overloading, the pilot cannot withstand more than 10g. Anti-aircraft missiles of the 40N6 type you cannot guarantee to shoot down with an interceptor with an overload capacity of 70g when maneuvering. And keep in mind that the modified ARGSN head of the 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the RVV-BD R-37 of the first issues. Learn materiel, Damantsev!


        How much pathos and lies ...
        1. R-37M - does not exist. This is a rocket on Ukrainian components.
        Our components changed its name to K-37M. It is the same product 610M aka RVV-BD.

        2. Product 610M does not know how to hit targets maneuvering with overloads of more than 8G. Can not. For heavy and clumsy.

        3. The flight range is estimated at 200-300km only under certain conditions and certain types of targets.

        4. GOS missiles 40N6 - 14 cm more in diameter of the K-37M missile body - where and what are you going to put?

        5. The K-37M missile is intended only for the Mig-31BM. Not one combat Drying has RVV-DB in service.

        6. Until 2016, not a single serial K-37M missile was launched under state defense orders, specifically under coscontract No. 1318187225052020104000734 / 14-4-51 / 941 / ЗА. On this fact, the Deputy General Director for Production of Tactical Missile Corporation Corporation JSC was found guilty of an administrative offense, the liability for which is provided for in paragraph 1 of Article 14.55 of the Code of Administrative Offenses.

        5. Anti-aircraft missile 40N6 - the same great "huge target" as everyone else. flying on ballistic trajectories.

        As I understand it, SetSet is RomagioAgro's reassigned vision with an alternative vision to the world?
        1. 0
          10 July 2019 01: 55
          SovAr238A, just babble, Ukrainian couch strategist ...
          I won’t even answer your dirty lies. Just learn the materiel.
          Like you:
          Quote: SETSET
          Some data 40H6 anti-aircraft missiles:
          1.GOS type - ARGS.
          2. The speed at the final stage of the flight is more than 9M;
          3. Overload ability when maneuvering over 45g;
          3. The range of action is more
          400 km.
          4. The height of target destruction is more than 185 km.

          And how clumsy is she? Even the US SM-6 missile will not be able to intercept it! And forget about Ukrainian components, they are not used on Russian military equipment. Svidomye all galloped on their maidan, including their minds ... laughing
          Note: RVV-BD R-37M - maneuvering overload capacity is 22g-25g, it can easily intercept an aircraft with 10g overload capacity when maneuvering. Adieu, illiterate strategist! bully
          1. 0
            10 July 2019 02: 17
            SovAr238A, you with vic02:
            Quote: SovAr238A
            And keep in mind modified the ARGSN head of the 40N6 anti-aircraft missile can easily be used on the first releases of the RVV-BD R-37.

            Quote: SovAr238A
            4. GOS missiles 40N6 - 14 cm more in diameter of the K-37M missile body - where and what are you going to put?

            And here is the correct answer to your stupid question:
            Quote: SETSET

            And you, vic02 (Victor), could not understand the meaning! The principle of operation of these homing heads is the same - both ARGSN. And it is not difficult for Russian designers to create new ARGSN for R-37 missiles of the first releases - that’s the whole point of my expression.
            laughing
    3. +1
      4 July 2019 19: 42
      well, or the problem of our economy and the effectiveness of the education system and everything else.
    4. +2
      4 July 2019 22: 58
      Long-range combat is primarily a means of intelligence in a broad sense.
      If you want - according to Caesar - he came, SAW, he won.
      I wouldn’t see - I would run into an ambush or even leave without a slap in the sun.
      Therefore, in my reasoning, we don’t put rockets in the first place of honor, but DRLs, airborne, ground-based (aerostat, etc.) and space radars and OLSs.
      And here, as I understand it, calm, systematic work is going on, albeit not as fast as we would like.
      The development of the element base, power microwave devices, ROFAR systems, quantum radars, passive RTR systems ...
      All this implies basic research, the results of which quickly happen only with very great luck. But, after the completion of the creation of the base - everything is built relatively easily, simply and quickly, just have time to unfasten the money.
      Now you can shake the air with moans about the irresponsibility of the authorities, the betrayal of the interests of the motherland, but who knows for sure what they have already achieved in the laboratories and what they have achieved soon?
      At one time, they talked a lot about ROFAR. Now - as cut off. Not much is spread about the Premiere on the basis of the IL-496. And in general, information about key developments in the field of radar technology and signal processing algorithms began to be given in a dosed manner.
      And it is right!
      And for the missiles, I think the trend is the same - there will be new GOS - in a flash there will also be ramjet.
    5. +3
      4 July 2019 23: 53
      What "and radar"? At least at the level of the booklets, see which radar has the best characteristics !!
      Read the lines "power", "noise level" "resolution"
      1. +1
        5 July 2019 10: 07
        Excuse me, did you read the post to the end or did you see only three familiar letters?
    6. +3
      5 July 2019 02: 58
      Quote: 210ox
      We lose the long-range battle not in the absence of missiles.

      In addition, there is the L-37M and at the exit of the KS-172, the range of which is above 400 km. And what the author wrote about the "low" level of ultimate loads of 25 G, what kind of aircraft or aircrafts fly with large ones?
      Quote: 210ox
      ut a complex of problems. And the radar and simply overwhelming numerical aviation of NATO countries

      NATO countries do not have the opportunity to achieve a significant numerical superiority in aviation in the European theater of operations. The maximum that they can deploy, according to their plans, is 480 - 490 units by 30 years. If we take into account our air defense, then NATO aviation does not shine completely in the Russian sky.
    7. 0
      8 July 2019 18: 42
      Do not worry. This WE command only a squadron. Otherwise, everything is fine.
    8. 0
      11 July 2019 11: 26
      Tired of reading this wretched analytics from DAMANTSEV, based on journal TTX. Therefore, I rarely began to look at VO. crying
  2. -4
    4 July 2019 15: 22
    I do not understand where "everything was lost" ...
    There are high-quality air defense systems (400-600km), the states and TPs do not have them - not a very successful attempt about air combat without other components
    1. +1
      4 July 2019 15: 25
      Quote: Rostislav Bely
      I do not understand where "everything was lost" ...
      There are high-quality air defense systems (400-600km)

      As if recourse ... On the SAM, you can’t fly very much feel ...

      You can, of course, try this:



      But I think it's somehow, oil on canvas recourse ... uncomfortable.
      1. -3
        4 July 2019 15: 37
        not only air defense systems, electronic warfare and PfP - the farther the launch, the more time to make a decision ... one component does not decide the outcome of air combat, or I misunderstand
        1. +6
          4 July 2019 16: 03
          Quote: Rostislav Bely
          not only air defense systems, electronic warfare and PfP

          You can list more and more, but the point is that the article raises the issue of problems in aerial combat.Aerial detection, guidance, and destruction systems.

          And you clung to the ground-based air defense system as a panacea ...

          If it’s not clear, then I explain P about b at to in and m : SAM does not solve the tasks assigned to fighters, bombers, attack aircraft and more.
          1. -2
            4 July 2019 16: 15
            R-33E and R-37 - Maximum launch range, 300 km ...
            1. 0
              10 July 2019 00: 45
              Quote: Rostislav White
              R-33E and R-37 - Maximum launch range, 300 km ...


              Do not confuse flight range and launch range.
              Start is done after the transfer of target designation to the rocket ...
              And with what range you can find a flying plane and who it loads - another question ...

              When the K-37M missile’s GOS is on (38 cm in diameter), the maximum possible detection range for the F-18 level target will be only 30 km. And for an airplane of the Grippen or F-16 level, then it’s also suitable for 20 km. And for the F-22 / F-35, the limit is 10km.
              When their optical systems recognize a half-meter clumsy fool with a huge torch at a distance of 50-60 km ... and calmly shoot her from the AMRAAMs and Sidewinders.
              1. -1
                10 July 2019 02: 49
                as soon as the radar is operating, the fumigator must say goodbye to the conditional invisibility even beyond the horizon, and the AWACS plane will not help
              2. 0
                10 July 2019 03: 20
                SovAr238A, just wild horror ...
                Quote: SovAr238A

                Do not confuse flight range and launch range.
                Start is done after the transfer of target designation to the rocket ...
                And with what range you can find a flying plane and who it loads - another question ...

                You just don’t even understand, in the light of your ignorance, what nonsense you wrote ...
                Quote: SovAr238A
                When the K-37M missile’s GOS is on (38 cm in diameter), the maximum possible detection range for the F-18 level target will be only 30 km. And for an airplane of the Grippen or F-16 level, then it’s also suitable for 20 km. And for the F-22 / F-35, the limit is 10km.
                When their optical systems recognize a half-meter clumsy fool with a huge torch at a distance of 50-60 km ... and calmly shoot her from the AMRAAMs and Sidewinders.

                For you and other strategists:
                Quote: SETSET
                Firstly, the operation modes of ГСН 9Б-1103М-350: fully autonomous (active) mode for preliminary target designation without radar support in flight ("let-forget" mode),
                Source: https://testpilot.ru/rossiya/vympel/r-37m/ Testers © www.testpilot.ru

                Secondly, the F-35 image intensifier is 0,3 - 0,4 square meters. For people like you:
                Capture of a low-maneuverable target of the F-35 type with a thrust ratio of 0,8 and an image intensifier = 0,3 sq. meter will happen at a distance of D = 19,8 km and it will be destroyed ...

                SovAr238A, you can’t even count!
                Quote: SovAr238A
                ... and they will calmly shoot her from AMRAAMs and Sidewinders.

                This is simply not true! The R-37M missile has a hypersonic flight speed at the final stage of the 6M flight and a feature of the flight algorithm, as well as overload ability when maneuvering 22g-25g.
                You are tormented by knocking down - it is simply impossible ...
      2. 0
        4 July 2019 15: 57
        this is in the picture KS-172 - a promising ultra-long range Russian air-to-air guided missile developed by NPO Novator (400km) or R-33 (160km) - R-37 (300km)
  3. Eug
    +3
    4 July 2019 15: 22
    The direct-flow coupler and small-diameter AFAR for GOS are needed both for the URV and for the SAM. The GOS itself should include sensors on different physical principles.
  4. -14
    4 July 2019 15: 22
    . First of all, it’s freezing or “shelving” the finalization of the development program for the advanced long-range missile defense missile systems RVV-AE-PD (“Product 180-PD”)

    the freebie in the form of foreign components is over, now, apart from prototypes for the parade, little goes into the series.
    1. +3
      4 July 2019 21: 08
      Freebie was a brake on their own progress. In this case - cheers sanctions! The back seat began to be torn away from the soft and warm.
      Don’t worry about the memphis for our parades and prototypes.
      We have them, but it will be full. And in general - our army! On Memphis))
  5. +5
    4 July 2019 15: 28
    The military-industrial complex is pulling to the limit ... all problems are known both on the surface ... and you can’t get far on import ... the lag will increase ... the absence of long-range missiles is a consequence
  6. +6
    4 July 2019 15: 51
    The overview on Western missiles and seeker is good, but I get the impression that again about a spherical horse in a vacuum. I mean the application ... To launch at 200+ km, the target must first be "seen". In greenhouse conditions or against an obviously weak enemy - yes, it will work out. But in REB conditions, even ground-based radars will have problems, not like on fighters. And then it turns out that the maximum practical launch range of air-to-air missiles will be comparable to that of stationary missiles. It seems to me that at such ranges (200+ km) it makes sense to shoot at bombers, transports / tankers and AWACS aircraft. Anything smaller, more agile and faster will be able to get away.
    1. +3
      4 July 2019 18: 43
      Quote: dzvero
      It seems to me that at such ranges (200 + km) it makes sense to shoot at bombers, transporters / tankers and airborne aircraft. Anything smaller, more maneuverable and faster will be able to leave.

      It seems to you absolutely correct, in general, the battle of fighters at such distances, to put it mildly ... exists only in the inflamed imagination of some publicists
    2. -2
      4 July 2019 22: 09
      It seems to me that at such ranges (200+ km) it makes sense to shoot at bombers, transporters / tankers and AWACS aircraft. Anything smaller, more maneuverable and faster, will be able to leave.
      ...
      Also, at least .. ineffective. If all this will fly with fighter escort, if it itself cannot carry miniature self-defense missiles, for which the entire attacking "long-range" is not a difficult target.
  7. +2
    4 July 2019 16: 02
    Quote: Rostislav Bely
    not only air defense systems, electronic warfare and PfP - the farther the launch, the more time to make a decision ... one component does not decide the outcome of air combat, or I misunderstand
    Reply

    air-to-air missiles are a means of winning initiative.
    and what Israel is doing with the air defense of Syria or Egypt, wielding the initiative, everyone knows.
    1. -4
      4 July 2019 16: 34
      you are wrong about Israel - you can thank Israel for training and identifying weaknesses (but no one forgets the nasty things they do, including criminals hiding in their territory), but they are scorched from S-200 and 125 (type of write-off instead of disposal ) ... everything ultimately is decided by the ground forces, why drag chestnuts out of the fire for Iran, they won’t say thank you (or quote you the highest IRGC officials about Russia)
      After the arrival of the globalists-"democrats" (after Doni) Israel will be quietly merged, and the British will control trade in the Islamic world, it is not for nothing that Brexit was started ...
      1. +5
        4 July 2019 20: 36
        Quote: Rostislav Bely
        Israel will quietly merge

        ... the dollar will soon collapse, America will soon decay, and the moon will fall to the ground and everyone will die.
  8. +1
    4 July 2019 16: 27
    Another sketched "rubbish" of Damantsev's numbers. It's just rubbish, there's nothing to discuss here.
  9. 0
    4 July 2019 17: 46
    The aviation component of the air defense system, can very quickly saturate any remote, not covered area countermeasures. Operative cover shorter.
    Not a panacea, but not a complete void.
    Regarding the article .... I hope that our pilots WILL have a trump card up their sleeve when necessary !!!
    Schaub know this, you really need to be .... admitted! And those who are admitted are unlikely to talk right and left!
  10. +5
    4 July 2019 18: 18
    "Freezing or" postponing "the finalization of the program for the development of an advanced long-range airborne missile system RVV-AE-PD" This missile of yesterday, and Russia needs air-to-air missiles capable of fighting targets flying at speeds of 10 or more Machs and overloads of 50-60g
  11. -1
    4 July 2019 19: 50
    Here, it’s not at all up to the cheers-patriotic exclamations of some of our observers about the unique parameters of the only Russian ultra-long-range URVV R-37 / RVV-BD

    This is about you, SETSET.
    The two-stage CUDA (JATM) will be the first ultra-long-range air-launched missile system capable of knocking down maneuvering targets like a fighter or a missile defense system at the range limit. In the internal compartments of the F-22 and F-35 they will fit no more than 4 pieces. A single-stage CUDA (SACM) will be used for dogfight and self-defense from missiles and air defense. Their ammunition will be 14 (F-22) and 12 pieces (F-35).
    Of course, they are not yet in service, but R&D has already been carried out, it remains to conduct tests and around 2022 they will go into series.
    Even if the R-37M and KS-172 are brought to mind (and this is problematic in the face of sanctions for technology transfer, and China is not a friend of the Russian Federation here), they will not be able to shoot down maneuvering small-sized targets and BMD warheads. For a simple reason - there is no evidence of mastering the RF Armed Forces of the hit-to-kill principle. And in the USA, 4 such systems have already been created - Patriot PAC-3, THAAD, GBI (GBMD) and SM-3 (Aegis). It will not be difficult for them to adapt this technology for the WWW.
    And these are not the cries of the "all-consuming", but a statement of the fact that if foreign policy were not so "sovereign", then the OKB would have at its disposal many key electronic components. Now, after all that has been done and deed, they will have to be created from scratch ourselves.
    1. +4
      4 July 2019 22: 50
      And these are not the cries of the "all-consuming", but a statement of the fact that if foreign policy were not so "sovereign", then the OKB would have at its disposal many key electronic components. Now, after all that has been done and deed, they will have to be created from scratch ourselves.
      .....
      As they say - "Our godfather is not more stupid than yours" (c). I do not think that foreign strategists are so naive that they could leave the issues of their own security, connected with the transfer of progressive electronic components to an existential adversary, at the mercy of the Kremlin even for "non-sovereign policy." Here and now they prove a simple truth - the Kremlin can be deprived of its sovereignty without providing it with a relevant EKB!
      And the fact that ... "Now, after all that has been done and deed, they will have to be created from scratch" is quite natural. You have to pay for all the crimes of the collapse of your own electronics industry, ... all the more, the lack of inevitability of punishment is .. the Kremlin's favorite "opium" and the drug addict must be treated until, maybe .. it's not too late ..
    2. +2
      5 July 2019 00: 10
      Oh class! They muddied one more "universal"! One-stage, two-stage, the most prestigious!
      The last time this role was played by the F-35, a universal prodigy for the air force, navy and kmp. You are on the right track, comrades gentlemen! :-)))
    3. +1
      5 July 2019 01: 59
      Antipatr, as always fairy tales, a strategist with an independent ... Learn to read and count, an illiterate propagandist.
      Two-stage CUDA (JATM) will be the first super long range A missile defense system capable of shooting down maneuvering targets such as a fighter or BRRS warheads at range.

      As always stupid - the CUDA rocket is designed like a rocket short and medium range of not more than 180 km.
      CUDA missiles are not in service - that’s all. And tell your tales to your "strategists", such as you - the illiterate. You have already talked about nonsense here about the "super-maneuverable" underplanes F-35 with a thrust-to-weight ratio equal to 0,8 and about how they are undeservedly criticized at the AO. And now you are trying to spit on Russian designers, not knowing the basics of radar, aerodynamics, and so on. And stop here to engage in illiterate propaganda.
  12. -1
    4 July 2019 20: 23
    for some reason they always consider the situation one on one, this is fundamentally wrong. in the event of a full-scale conflict, at least our regiment is against their wing, but this doesn’t all take into account ground-based air defense, reb, rtr plus military air defense at the border, even if we don’t see them as lagging behind, but they give a salvo (missile launch is very noticeable) and from far distances, of course, all the systems that work for us give target designation and of course, interference at all frequencies, something we also see the start-up, air defense rtr also work on the other side, imagine what will happen on the air and where the missiles will fly, your aviation both sides will protect and their superiority in the number of fleet I think is not as critical as they say
    1. +3
      4 July 2019 20: 45
      A total conflict between NATO and the Russian Federation is extremely unlikely. A local clash on foreign theater, unfortunately, is quite possible, and there will be no support from the air defense infrastructure.
  13. +1
    4 July 2019 21: 03
    laughing Again I guessed from the title that the creation belongs to Damantsev's pen !!! laughing I am not against the article. A normal, non-relaxing article that does not allow you to rest on your laurels.
  14. +3
    4 July 2019 21: 05
    I stopped reading after a statement about the possibility of shooting down maneuvering targets with modern missiles at a distance of 90-160 km. With the ZPS for 40 km, go down. And here the rocket stupidly will not catch up, and how the EW will begin to crush and distort the data that goes to the radar of the attacking fighter, then there is no chance at all. At a great distance, it is much easier to press.
  15. -2
    4 July 2019 22: 08
    Damn, I don’t believe it. For five years in a row I have heard from our military men like Kanashenkov and others - that we have the most missile missiles and the most fighter jets, besides, they also have "no analogues in the world." And Putin said thirty times - our missiles and planes are super unique and super high-tech, and even forced the Russian Ministry of Defense to buy 6 MiG-35s and 76 unique Su-57s that have no analogues in the world. So the busurmans will tremble. Kanashenkov and Putin must be trusted. After all, if not them, then who?
    1. +1
      5 July 2019 14: 29
      Kanashenkov and Putin will not be enough, but if their friends Medvedev and Shoigu catch up, this is already a force, and if you use their whole brotherhood: Sechina, Mutko, Ragozina, etc., then we will definitely defeat everyone.
  16. +1
    4 July 2019 23: 50
    It would be nice if the author shared a recipe that gives such a limitless flight of thought, this is really something unique!
    And on the topic of the article, it should be recognized that not a single fighter that discovered the fact of launching the DDWM DD itself was shot down. Never. Never. For objective reasons of a physical property. Without the invention of a separate American or Euro-physics, this is practically impossible.
    The maxim about hundreds of pulsed engines is generally incomparable in the sense of an outright misunderstanding of the physics of the process even at an elementary level
    1. 0
      5 July 2019 02: 39

      Tests at the Edwards Air Base in 2008 (!).
      1. 0
        5 July 2019 14: 33
        Fiyignya all this! babble and money down the drain. We are much better! ATOMIC !!! where are they against ours. DO NOT BELIEVE? Putin said. And I believe him and am proud of it !!!!
    2. 0
      5 July 2019 11: 17
      The maxim about hundreds of pulsed engines is generally incomparable in the sense of an outright misunderstanding of the physics of the process even at an elementary level
      ...
      But what about the 9M96 racket with pulsed motors at the terminal stage of a horizontal attack of the target! ?? .... Also glaring obscurantism at the elementary level of Russian physics ..))
      1. The comment was deleted.
  17. +1
    5 July 2019 03: 00
    Again prosralipolymers. The nonsense Damantsev did not even bother to look into the wiki. Or maybe it is unnecessary to him? The main thing in the training manual ...
    1. +2
      5 July 2019 04: 35
      the author is not competent. Just threw in foreign information. In a word, delirium with glimpses of consciousness.
  18. sen
    +4
    5 July 2019 06: 04
    The last Indo-Pakistani conflict. Indians R-77 scolded because of insufficient range compared to Pakistani AIM-120 AMRAAM. They even wanted to buy air-to-air missiles from Israel, but the latter are incompatible with our aircraft.
    1. +1
      5 July 2019 09: 39
      Quote: sen
      The last Indo-Pakistani conflict. The Indians R-77 scolded because of insufficient range compared to Pakistani AIM-120 AMRAAM. They even wanted to buy air-to-air missiles from Israel

      Testicles interfere with a bad dancer laughing
  19. +2
    5 July 2019 09: 36
    Judging by the fact that Russia's air defense is considered the strongest in the world, our warriors have calculated for a long time the loss of initiative in the air in the event of a serious conflict. Then, probably, these missiles were not there either. And the arguments in that documentation (which I suppose is under the SS stamp) will probably be more serious.
    1. -1
      5 July 2019 11: 24
      Holy Faith is .. our All! The Russian Orthodox Church is not in vain eating the budgetary loot, and grows, instead of a huge number of closed schools and hospitals, by tens of thousands of new churches during Putin's taxiing ...))
      1. 0
        5 July 2019 11: 45
        "Do you see the gopher? So I don't see it. But he is." laughing
      2. +1
        5 July 2019 11: 49
        In Russia, several kindergartens and schools are opened every day, an ode of 400 new schools in the Krasnodar Territory
        1. 0
          5 July 2019 12: 13
          From official data it is clear that during the reign of Putin and Medvedev, Russia lost 26,3 thousand schools. That is, 1,65 thousand schools were closed every year in the country. For comparison: under Stalin, before the war, 5 thousand new schools were built every year ...
          1. +1
            5 July 2019 14: 18
            the nineties were not 10 years but eight or even seven. Putin is soon 19! . until everything optimizes it goes away.
          2. +1
            5 July 2019 15: 14
            From official data it is clear that during the reign of Putin and Medvedev, Russia lost 26,3 thousand schools. That is, 1,65 thousand schools were closed every year in the country - and these statistics correspond to the disappeared towns and villages for 19 years where these same schools were located - people die and leave the villages, respectively, schools are built where people go, but not where they are no more.
            1. +1
              5 July 2019 16: 42
              people die and leave the villages, so schools are built where people go, but not where they are no more.
              ...
              Schools are "enlarged" much more often than new ones are being built, and this is indeed the case. Well, people die and leave, and the survivors give birth less often because they do not have money, this resource is severely lacking for the whole country, but the "Ozero cooperative" as well as its local and foreign "partners and friends" feel great ... (
        2. +1
          7 July 2019 23: 19
          Vadim, treat SS - only spoil.
    2. +1
      5 July 2019 14: 27
      not motivated optimism. there is simply no one to do and nothing. put at least trillions here. education is paid. and the fact that there’s nowhere to live for free and nothing to eat. I have a relative studying for a doctor. raw lectures. there are few books, it is being prepared for the session around the clock. she does the teaching work for herself. instead of gaining extensive knowledge, scrape across the gimbal. Oh, it all ends very badly. Why is that? But simple. whoever can’t surrender himself, surrenders for fat.
    3. -3
      5 July 2019 15: 38
      There is purely economic. Russia is a huge country by territory. To cover it all with airfields with fighters is simply wildly expensive. It is much cheaper to put divisions of the air defense system on dangerous directions than an entire airfield with airplanes. One modern fighter stands as the 5 divisions of the C-300. Plus, fighters need aviation fuel, spare parts, maintenance, pilot training for years, and ground technicians. Plus radar stations and other aerodrome equipment. And the planes fly, producing motor life. And the air defense system for the most part is in the hangars or in the open area, they leave for the position area only for an alarm or for training. And to train the calculations is much less time and finance.
      1. -1
        5 July 2019 22: 09
        Given the large fleet of the United States, any direction can be dangerous and then it is necessary to close the country around the entire perimeter.
  20. 0
    5 July 2019 10: 43
    much more filigree accuracy of "capture" goals

    capture cannot be filigree. It may or may not be. To be steady or to be disrupted. author -> author -> author a highly artistic gag
  21. -3
    5 July 2019 14: 13
    Yes what for these rockets are needed? olympiads, football, bridges of 250 lard, buy a few tons of American money, we’ll fly to the moon soon .... the author has more fun to live! do not break through sadness .. !!! write a better article about how the country rose from its knees! how many good churches were built, how trump patted Putin on the shoulder! Che you write any garbage ..
    1. 0
      5 July 2019 15: 20
      Well, you definitely don’t need anything - since you don’t belong to the olympiads, footballs, and building infrastructure in the country and you don’t have anything from this, that's why you don’t need it - and hundreds of thousands and millions of people need it.
      1. +1
        5 July 2019 16: 33
        it's sarcasm. indicating how people’s money is being spent. namely, stupid and harmful. and for some expenses it would be necessary to impute treason.
      2. -1
        5 July 2019 17: 02
        And what do hundreds of millions of people have ... from the Olympics, football, hockey, building infrastructure for this?
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. -1
    5 July 2019 15: 14
    What is there to talk about? Put "Iskander" as a booster and - forward.
  24. 0
    5 July 2019 15: 39
    // due to the presence of a computerized system for regulating the supply of a gas generator to the combustion chamber //
    Comrades, what is this? laughing
    1. 0
      5 July 2019 17: 09
      Everything is simple ... in this context it follows gas generator understand conditionally synonymous fuel. ...
  25. -2
    5 July 2019 17: 51
    Who about what, and Yevgeny about straight flow laughing

    In any RVV with a rocket engine, the flight path to the maximum range has three sections:
    - the first quarter of the trajectory of the rocket runs with a running engine and a disposable overload 40 G;
    - the second quarter of the trajectory of the rocket passes by inertia with the engine, which developed its fuel, and the available overload 20 G;
    - the remaining half of the trajectory of the rocket passes by inertia with a disposable overload 10 G.

    The available fighter overload is 10 G, the bomber is 5 G, the transporter, DRLO aircraft, anti-submarine aircraft and long-range reconnaissance drone are 2,5 G.

    Substitute in the formula the maximum range of a specific RVV and get the interception range of an aircraft or a UAV. For example, the Russian P-37M has a maximum range of 300 km and intercepts any enemy fighter at a range of 75 km; the future American AIM-250 will intercept Su-35 at a distance of 62,5 km.

    For a straight-through European "Meteor" with a running engine, the available overload is 20 G (due to the inoperability of the air intakes during sharper maneuvers) at a distance of 120 km, further - less.

    Since any enemy fighter, including F-75, can see the Su-35 on-board radar at 22 km, the R-37M will be sent over the radio command line almost to the target RGSN missiles at a distance from 1 km or more. Those. The Russian Aerospace Forces in the field of long-range RVV have an indisputable advantage over the air forces of all other countries of the world. Moreover, this advantage will continue until the NATO countries, Japan, South Korea and Israel abandon their stealth fighters with tight limits on the dimensions of RVV, which limit their range for a given weight of a kinetic warhead. And micro-impulse rocket engines of the second stage will not help here, since the weight of their block with the weight limit of the RVV itself will reduce, and not increase, the range of the RVV.

    The P-37M with the Su-35, unsurpassed by anybody, also has a large modernization potential (millimeter-wave radar, AFAR, micro-pulse rocket engines), which will ensure its long-term dominance.
  26. -2
    5 July 2019 19: 19
    Quote: YOUR
    how the preparation is on your own see


    It would be better not to see this.
    As the children of officials fly on weekends from London, after school, and their parents fly on the weekend to where their children arrived.
    How officials buy their mothers apartments with an area of ​​a whole floor in the Khrushchev.
    Like official dogs, they fly around the world on the official’s wife’s business jet.
    How Kgovaya Elvira and Siluanitch are dumping trillions in dollars, euros and yuan, as well as us treasures.
    As with a surplus budget, they raise the retirement age and taxes.
    As indigenous people are less likely to get a job than visitors who work in Russia and do not pay a penny of taxes.
    How oh .. your oligarchs ask from the budget $ yards and get approval:
  27. 0
    5 July 2019 19: 36
    Quote: sen
    They even wanted to buy air-to-air missiles from Israel, but the latter are incompatible with our aircraft.

  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. +1
    9 July 2019 07: 17
    I understand that the military would only have to fight with someone, but it’s time to understand that there will never be a war between the Russian Federation and the USA, because the military of the Russian Federation and the USA have been cooperating in space for decades, including Mars and the Moon, therefore all this warlike rhetoric politicians only need to pump money out of the defense budget so that the Pentagon again then loses trillions of dollars.

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