In addition to the "Sunshine". What is known about "Tosochka"

66
The armament of the Russian army consists of two types of flamethrower systems - TOC-1 "Buratino" and TOC-1A "Solntsepek". In these combat vehicles implemented the original concept, which has proved its effectiveness in real operations. The development of such ideas continues and is being carried out within the framework of the Toshoch project. Its result in the future should be the adoption of a new flame-thrower system.





Project History


Industry representatives regularly talk about the progress of the “Tosochka” project, and the main features of the future car have become known. At the same time, while the developers did not have time to disclose other information of no less interest. First of all, this is due to the fact that the project started not so long ago, and while enterprises have to keep secrecy.

The Toschka project was announced in the summer of 2017 in the course of the MAKS showroom. The development of this sample is carried out in the NPO "Splav". The project involved the development of existing ideas with the use of new components. It was argued that the delivery of the new TOC of the Russian army will be carried out in the framework of the new State Armaments Program, designed for 2018-2025. It was also planned to present the system in the international market.

In January last year, the leadership of the Tekhmash concern, which includes the Splav NGO, spoke about the successes of the Toschka project. By that time, the development organization had time to begin producing a prototype flame-thrower system. Such a prototype in the near future was supposed to go on preliminary tests.

Curious information came in April 2018-th. Then the management of "Tehmash" said that in 2019 it was planned to conduct state tests of the TOC, and in 2020 the pilot military operation would begin. The relatively quick development and testing of the prospective model is directly related to the architecture used.

In July, Tehmash clarified the current status of the project. Work on "Toshochka" at that time was going according to plan. They were planned to be completed in the coming years. Thus, in 2019-2020. it is necessary to wait for the appearance of full-fledged samples suitable for armament.

During the recent exhibition “Army-2019”, the topic TOS “Tosochka” was raised again. The developer organization has successfully completed its tasks, and now the project is entering the state testing stage. In this case, the timing of such works were not specified.

Technical features


Unfortunately, most of the information about the technical appearance of the future "Toschka" has not yet been disclosed. Developing organizations have repeatedly mentioned only certain features of the technical appearance and the expected results of the project. However, this data also creates an interesting picture.

Back in 2017, NPO Splav revealed one of the main features of the project. Existing serial TOS of domestic production are built on modified tank chassis. It is proposed to make a promising "Toosochka" on a wheeled platform. The experience of operating the TOS-1 in different conditions, including in desert zones, showed the disadvantages of the tracked chassis and certain advantages of the wheeled chassis.

The type of chassis for the “Toschka” remains unknown, but there is every reason to believe that this will be one of the existing domestic platforms. From this it follows that the new model will differ from the existing ones not only by the general architecture, but also by a number of other features. Apparently, the level of protection of the crew and units, etc. will be different.

At the same time, it is not planned to change the launcher. It will be borrowed from the existing sample and will retain the existing design. Unmanaged 220-mm projectiles with thermobaric or incendiary warheads will also be preserved.

It was mentioned that “Tosochka” will differ from “Buratino” and “Solnephek” with higher tactical and technical characteristics, however, no specific figures were given. Also, the areas in which the new model will surpass the old ones were not specified. Apparently, the new "Tosochka" will favorably differ in the characteristics of mobility and mobility.

In recent years, repeatedly appeared news on the development of promising ammunition for domestic TOC, characterized by an increased range of fire and increased power. The introduction of such products into the new complex will provide Toshochka with certain advantages in fighting qualities. However, older flamethrower systems will also be able to use similar ammunition.

In addition to the combat vehicle with a launcher, serial-loading heavy flame-thrower systems include transport-loading equipment with the appropriate equipment. How this issue is solved in the “Toschka” project is unclear. Probably, together with the self-propelled launcher, a unified TZM will be commissioned.

Advantages and disadvantages


The developers of “Tosochka” have already revealed some details of the project, as well as indicated its strengths. The argumentation looks convincing and, in all likelihood, the new TOC will indeed show high fighting qualities, enhanced by the modified architecture.

Due to the preservation of the launcher and unguided projectiles "Tosochka" will be able to show the range and power at the level of existing samples. Upgrading electronic fire control equipment can provide an increase in accuracy and efficiency of fire. Similar effects will have the development of new improved ammunition.

The main innovation of the “Toschka” project is to transfer all funds to the wheeled chassis. Such a combat vehicle will be able, independently and without the involvement of tank carriers, to navigate along the roads and go faster to a given position. At the same time, however, it can be difficult to work on rough terrain, where a tracked chassis shows known advantages over a wheeled one.

It is argued that the decision to transfer the launcher to a wheeled platform is associated with the experience of the use of "Sunpinek" in the Middle East. With all its advantages, the tracked chassis was not very convenient for solving specific combat missions in local landscapes.

Prospects for operation


Obviously, the Russian Armed Forces will be the starting customer of “Tosochka”. In our army there is a certain amount of tracked TOC of old models, and in the future they will be joined by a certain number of wheeled combat vehicles. The main result of this will be the empowerment of flamethrower units. Depending on the current situation and the conditions available, the army will be able to send tracked or wheeled flame thrower systems into battle. Directly fighting qualities of all TOC must be on the same level.

In the recent past, the TOC-1A complexes managed to be exported. Such equipment is in service with five countries of near and far abroad, and some of the export combat vehicles have already taken part in real operations. The new project “Tosochka” is being created, including with an eye on the sale of equipment to third countries.

The first foreign buyers of new CBT can be Iraq and Syria. They have already managed to try out TOC-1А, but the tracked chassis of such machines does not quite meet the specific use in the region. The wheeled "Toschka" turns out to be more interesting for Middle Eastern countries. Delivery abroad and use in real combat operations can be a good advertisement, after which other foreign armies will be interested in Russian equipment.

However, as the experience of TOC-1 and TOC-1А products shows, the market for heavy flamethrower systems is not large. Serial production "Tosochek" for our and foreign armies can be limited to only a few dozen units.

Nevertheless, in this case, the project "Tosochka" is of great interest to the Russian army and the armed forces of third countries. According to the available data, an experimental military operation of such equipment should start next year, and after that we should expect the launch of full-fledged serial production for ourselves and for export.
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  1. +2
    4 July 2019 05: 47
    You give further development of the duplicating MLRS family in the RF Armed Forces! (with all the consequences: logistics, operation, training, ammunition, etc. ....).
    Hooray to the progress of different sizes and deunification!
    1. -1
      4 July 2019 08: 45
      It seems that this may be a new word in a 9-ha volume explosion based on the MLRS? belay
    2. +7
      4 July 2019 08: 57
      Quote: infantryman2020
      further development of the duplicate MLRS family in the RF Armed Forces!

      We currently do not have a single MLRS designed to fire at such short ranges. On the contrary, we successively increase their firing range, thereby simultaneously increasing the minimum range of their application.
      The only problem that exists here is "departmental affiliation"
      1. +1
        4 July 2019 10: 03
        Quote: Spade
        we consistently increase their range,

        Now work is underway on erets with a range of up to 10 km for TPSs ... but nothing is known about the latest results. For "Tosochka" eres (6 km) are being modernized in order to "give" the ability to explode above the ground ... that's just "out of my head": a proximity fuse (laser ... radio frequency ...) or with a programmable timer ...
        1. +4
          4 July 2019 10: 14
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Now work is underway on the Eres range of up to 10 km for TOS

          This is already pure nonsense. The greater the firing range, the greater and minimum. That is, the range at which firing is impractical because of the high dispersion of

          Now "work is underway on eres with a range of up to 10 km", then they will "work on installing large and small brake rings on the RS." Damn, we went through all these stages during the Soviet era. RHBZshniki that, in all seriousness, appropriated the role of "artillery backup"?

          Well, for "Tornado" / "Tornado-S" there has long been a PC with a thermobaric "head". And "chemists" will be at least a little limited in their "Wishlist"
          1. +4
            4 July 2019 10: 42
            Not certainly in that way. At a minimum range, the same city can work direct fire with very high (even excessive) accuracy. Another thing is that this machine is not protected in any way for reaching a distance of several kilometers.
            1. 0
              4 July 2019 11: 30
              Quote: Sancho_SP
              Another thing is that this car is not protected by anything to go a distance of several kilometers.

              You, unlike Lopatov, well understood why there is a need to increase the firing range of TOSs! And for Lopatov, since he is so "fixated" on the "minimum range", we will leave the "old" eras with a range of 4-6 km! Thus, we will increase the "safety" of TPSs, and Lopatov will be satisfied!
              1. +3
                4 July 2019 17: 19
                Quote: Nikolaevich I
                You, unlike Lopatov, well understood why there is a need to increase the firing range of TOS

                Yeah ... Well, so explain to me a couple, what is the highest need to create an analogue of existing MLRS, and with very limited due to warhead capabilities?

                On the one hand, a new car with new PCs. On the other hand, just make a new warhead for Grad / Tornado-G ...
                Someone is clearly "assimilating money" under the guise of "Syrian experience"?
            2. 0
              4 July 2019 16: 39
              Quote: Sancho_SP
              At the minimum range, the same city can work directly

              Can. But do you know what it will be? That's right, a long line of ruptures, and out of 40 missiles in a packet, the target will hit well if there is a pair.
              When the enemy breaks through to the fire, this is acceptable. But consider this normal, not worth it.
          2. -3
            4 July 2019 11: 49
            Quote: Spade
            This is already pure nonsense. The greater the firing range, the greater and minimum. That is, the range at which firing is impractical because of the high dispersion of

            You are so fixated on the "minimum range" that the "smart" refuses to work at a greater distance ... Increasing the range of the TOS eras is necessary to ensure greater "safety" of heavy flamethrowers, because, as Sancho noted,This car is not protected by anything for a distance of several kilometers. In addition, what prevents you from leaving your favorite "old" eres (4-6 km)? It is possible that the eres under development (in case of successful completion of the work ...) will be equipped with a simple correction system ...
            1. +5
              4 July 2019 14: 15
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Increasing the range of TOS ereses is necessary to ensure greater "safety" of heavy flamethrowers, because, as Sancho noted, this machine is not protected by anything to reach a distance of several kilometers.

              And as a result, the TOC of increased range is not needed. smile
              Because at increased ranges you can work on targets with conventional MLRS with a thermobaric warhead.
              In addition, with an increase in the range of the TOS in the RChBZ, it will be necessary to create full-fledged READN with all the "artillery" attachment (in order not only to shoot, but also to hit) - and the RCBZ will begin to duplicate the artillery.
              1. +6
                4 July 2019 16: 43
                Quote: Alexey RA
                it is possible to work on targets with conventional MLRS with a thermobaric warhead.

                And there are none for Grad / Tornado-G
                And why is unknown. You can, of course, say that the thermobar is only for "chemists" ... but the ambush is that there are incendiary ones for the "Grad" since the times of the USSR.
                Therefore, we observe nonsense in its purest form.
            2. +2
              4 July 2019 16: 40
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              This car is not protected by anything for a distance of several kilometers.

              eight))))))
              Do you know what a closed firing position is?
              1. 0
                5 July 2019 05: 26
                Quote: Spade
                Do you know what a closed firing position is?

                Yes, the point is that TOSs were originally "conceived" for a "direct attack"; for launching NURSs from an open firing position ... and that is why NURS packages were placed on a tank chassis in an armored casing! Moreover, the eres MO.1.01.04 (and modifications) had a range of no more than 4 km (2,7 km, 3,6 km ...). Provided and firing "direct fire". 220-mm NURS 9M51 (MLRS "Uragan") had a longer range, but also a greater length, weight; I suppose that the cost is also greater ... Having a longer range, the Uragan's NURSs had a greater dispersion at this range. TOS-1 was enough (and cheaper) to "punish" the barmaley who had small arms and grenade launchers. But in the future, the CBTs had to increasingly "face" a more armed enemy. I had to do TOS-1A and NURS MO.1.01.04M (6 km). But they did not abandon the idea of ​​using TOS from an open firing position; because. TOS-1A were still located on a tank chassis and in an armored casing. It was also assumed that the use of NURS MO.1.01.04M would be cheaper than the more expensive 9M51 from the "naked" Hurricanes for the same range. (And in general, pushing the long-range system "Hurricane" to the "leading edge" is nonsense!) When shooting "Hurricanes" at a long distance, "we get" a large dispersion, which reduces the effectiveness of the use of 9M51 ... in the city or near the city, the "presence" of the civilian population. "Tosochka" is not only, unlike TOS-1 / 1A, on a wheeled chassis ... it is not protected like TOS. I don’t see any sense to start “Tosochka” for the Russian army! But, apparently, the "effective managers" from the RF Ministry of Defense decided, on the wave of popularity abroad of TOSs, to "push" foreign customers more of these weapons according to the principle: "what do you want?" and "any whim for your money!" But now "Tosochka" will have to be used mainly from closed firing positions ... and now "for this and therefore" new eres with an increased firing range were needed.
                As the representative of the Ministry of Defense, familiar with the progress of work, noted, the task of creating a long-range missile was quite complex.
                “Since the dimensions of the launcher itself did not change, it was impossible to use the classical method — increase the mass and length of the rocket, which means you must either reduce the amount of fuel or reduce the weight of the warhead,” says the source. “But instead, new types of fuel and explosive mixtures were developed, which allowed not only to fit into the specified characteristics, but also to increase the firing range and power of the munition. Although the exact characteristics of the long-range rocket are still closed, according to Izvestia, the range of fire of the novelty has actually increased one and a half to two times from 0.1.01.04 – 5 to 6 km compared to the older M10M.
                In the holding “NPO Splav” to “Izvestia” they confirmed that tests of the latest rocket are underway, but refused to comment further

                As for the expediency of further increasing the range of TPS, then we can cite the following opinion:According to the editor-in-chief of the magazine Arsenal of the Fatherland, Colonel of the Reserve Viktor Murakhovsky, it makes sense to increase the range of TOC only to a small extent.
                - Heavy flamethrower system should not really turn into an artillery gun. Increasing the maximum firing range contributes to the growth and the dead zone - the distance near the gun in which it cannot attack, says Murakhovsky. - And this is not taking into account the complete restructuring of the guidance system of the “SunTech” itself. In addition, the place of a truly long-range gun, capable of striking the enemy with ammunition with a thermobaric warhead, is currently occupied in our army by the Smerch multiple rocket launcher.
      2. +6
        4 July 2019 11: 47
        This is clear. But.
        1) initially TOC was valuable for its ability to provide fire support at short range, up to half direct fire, inclusive. Due to its high security. Stupidly increasing its range and transferring it to the wheelbase, this concept was stolen and a duplicating family looms up for our already multi-type MLRS with all the consequences;
        2) departmental interests rule with might and main, yes ...
        The Americans somehow manage with only two systems, unified in terms of ammunition. The tactical missile system is also being "shut down".
        1. +1
          4 July 2019 16: 48
          Quote: infantryman2020
          TOC was originally valuable for its ability to provide fire support at short range, up to half direct fire, inclusive. Due to its high security. Stupidly increasing its range and transferring it to the wheelbase, this concept was stolen and a duplicating family looms up for our already multi-type MLRS with all the consequences;

          I agree.

          Quote: infantryman2020
          departmental interests are in full swing, yes ...

          This is really crap. With an increase in the range, as Alexei correctly noted here, they will need a full artillery "kit", they will need to multiply the number of installations. And, most importantly, artillery officers will be needed. That is, people with the appropriate knowledge. And the good ones will not go there for a simple reason - a complete lack of a career.
    3. 0
      5 July 2019 17: 59
      The article is not about anything. Some guesses. Not a photo. TTX. Nothing.
  2. +5
    4 July 2019 06: 04
    TOS-1 "Pinocchio" and TOS-1A "Solntsepek"

    Why SHOCK? Malvina for Pinocchio is much closer! laughing
    1. -1
      4 July 2019 08: 10
      Nope) ARTemon)))))
      1. 0
        4 July 2019 08: 35
        Pinocchio +
        ARTemon
        . Fu, practical.
  3. +1
    4 July 2019 06: 31
    For the storming of cities during the Second World War, the 203 mm B-4 howitzer was effective. Now it is not in service, only the 2S7 "Pion" cannon, which has other tasks.
    Is it possible to effectively use "Solntsepek" on buildings instead of B-4?
    1. +1
      4 July 2019 08: 15
      I’m from a friend of the stock artilleryman, I heard that these B4 203mm are included even today are included in the reserve of the high command. It is interesting to know is it?
      1. +2
        4 July 2019 09: 53
        Quote: StudentVK
        I heard that these B4 203mm are even included in the reserve today ...

        Not B4, but B-4M ... together with Br-5M ...
    2. +1
      4 July 2019 08: 28
      Given the superiority of thermobaric ammunition over explosive, in particular the destructive effect when working on buildings, plus dense development causes the return of shock waves, it is for the cities and towns of the TOS most dangerous. Barrel artillery has advantages when working on fortified structures
    3. +5
      4 July 2019 09: 16
      Quote: riwas
      Is it possible to effectively use "Solntsepek" on buildings instead of B-4?

      Initially, "Pinocchio" and planned to use it.
      In reality, this is quite possible. But this will require quite large, and at the same time "invisible" costs. Which the current MoD leadership prefers not to do.

      The first option is to equip the ammunition with a semi-active laser seeker and an impulse correction system. This has long been worked out in the framework of the CCM "Threat". It seems like it was presented at the MAKS air show back in 1999.
      The second option is a deep modernization of the launcher itself, equipped with systems for increasing accuracy. For example, back in 2012, Progress proposed to equip TOS-1 with the ABAK-KTNTs system. If we add to it a modern meteorological station with a radar for determining wind parameters, then the accuracy of such a system will be comparable to the accuracy of guided munitions.

      Accordingly, this is all imperceptible, it cannot be shown at parades, so they will invest in something more necessary. For example, they will install the Coalition tower on the Vityaz articulated joint, ride it along Red Square and send it to the Kubinka exposition.
      1. +1
        4 July 2019 13: 32
        You can make wire management like ATGM of the second generation.
        Or use a relatively cheap target guidance system like the Starstrik MANPADS, formed by two lasers located in the guidance unit. In this case, one of them scans in the horizontal plane, and the other in the vertical, in the tail of the projectile is a laser receiver. A laser beam missile guidance system is used along the line of sight of the target. The receiver is quite compact (the length of each shell of the Starstrik MANPADS is 400 mm, diameter 22 mm, 400 g of explosives).
        1. +1
          4 July 2019 14: 52
          Yes, I forgot to add. Control is not carried out in a straight line, but by comparing with the calculated ballistic trajectory.
          1. 0
            4 July 2019 16: 53
            Quote: riwas
            Control is not carried out in a straight line, but by comparing with the calculated ballistic trajectory.

            And how to determine the real position in order to compare with the calculated one? Only the radar is highly accurate. And it will come out more complicated than "Threats" and much more expensive than systems for increasing the accuracy of the launcher.
            1. +1
              5 July 2019 05: 04
              Tracer, laser rangefinder. If we digress from the "Solntsepek" and make a projectile in the form of a large "ATGM" with direct guidance, then just a tracer.
        2. 0
          4 July 2019 16: 51
          Safety this time. Pulling a car even on a tank chassis for direct fire is undesirable.
          Closed area is two. The city, mountains, other things are not always in the place where the target is visible, you can tighten such a fool.
  4. +1
    4 July 2019 06: 45
    You can start betting on which chassis this pepelats will be installed. Although there are not so many options: KamAZ, Tornado, BAZ, MZKT, possibly the Urals.
    1. 0
      4 July 2019 08: 18
      The Urals are unlikely ... A shortened Tornado 30mm made on the basis of the Mustang 8x8
    2. +2
      4 July 2019 09: 23
      8)))))
      99% on what they save and put on the KamAZ chassis. This:

      But there is also a 1% probability that they will be generous and bet on Tornado. Fortunately, we have only 5 companies of "heavy flamethrowers" in the RF Armed Forces.
      6-9 TPS based on Typhoon will not ruin the MO. In addition, it will look more beautiful at parades.
      1. 0
        4 July 2019 11: 35
        Quote: Spade
        6-9 TPS based on Typhoon will not ruin the MO. In addition, it will look more beautiful at parades.

        Typhoon is tall. It can happen, as in the photograph you provided or as a bypass in Vladivostok.
        1. 0
          4 July 2019 16: 55
          KamAZ is also a bit tall, and "Pantsiri" together with Kazakh MLRS on its base lie on its side regularly. So they are essentially the same thing.
          1. 0
            4 July 2019 22: 00
            Quote: Spade
            KamAZ is also a bit tall, and "Pantsiri" together with Kazakh MLRS on its base lie on its side regularly. So they are essentially the same thing.

            So, only the BAZ remains. They are unlikely to bet on the MZKT
            1. 0
              5 July 2019 08: 37
              Come on, the Rostec enterprise will never use someone else's chassis, especially from BAZ, which they never managed to destroy and close and which now belong to Almaz-Antey

              So only trash, only KamAZ 8)))) From strength, Remdiesel, if you decide to spend wild money on protecting crews.
              The Ministry of Defense decided not to spend money on the "Tornado-G", they considered armored cabins an unnecessary luxury ... As the saying goes, "The Americans have problems with manning the aircraft, but we have a call, women will still give birth. And where will we take money for" biathlons "
  5. +1
    4 July 2019 06: 56
    At the request of the "workers" of the East ...
    1. +5
      4 July 2019 09: 51
      Quote: knn54
      At the request of the "workers" of the East ...

      That’s all nonsense.
      Apparently, the "Syrian experience" consisted in the fact that the CBT often had to be transported over long distances along the roads in "carts".
      And then someone especially gifted decided that it was a good idea - to save a little at the cost of a radical decrease in TOS security and again a radical decrease in tactical mobility.
      Replacing the TOC system on a tank chassis plus a tank transporter with two TOS points on a wheeled chassis.

      We have a penny saving paid for by repeatedly increasing the likelihood of destruction of CBT in battle. Hooray...

      In fact, the Defense Ministry, which has already set the teeth on edge and is mentioned by the functionaries of the Ministry of Defense through the word "Syrian experience", requires a reverse - a radical increase in the security of TOS. For example, by additional booking a package of guides and installing KAZ + KOEP
      1. 0
        4 July 2019 10: 45
        Are there statistics on the defeat of these machines? At least one CBT at least once in the same Syria from which something got?
        1. 0
          4 July 2019 13: 27
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          Are there statistics on the defeat of these machines? At least one CBT at least once in the same Syria from which something got?


          because of this, a new version of TOC appeared.
          1. 0
            4 July 2019 15: 23
            The video is not even loaded. But I'm more about statistics, how much they used, how much they lost. They burned all kinds of tanks more.
            1. 0
              4 July 2019 16: 57
              Quote: Sancho_SP
              But I'm more about statistics, how much they used, how much they lost

              Three pieces used. Not more. Once again, we have only 4 heavy flamethrower companies for all the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation
      2. +1
        4 July 2019 11: 37
        Quote: Spade
        We have a penny saving paid for by repeatedly increasing the likelihood of destruction of CBT in battle. Hooray...

        And what, is the participation of Tosochka supposed in the battle at the forefront? Or just before the trenches?
        1. +1
          4 July 2019 13: 48
          Quote: Gritsa
          And what, is the participation of Tosochka supposed in the battle at the forefront? Or just before the trenches?

          Are there any other options?
          CBT is not a MLRS. This is not artillery at all, but RKhBZ. And they work precisely at the forefront, for which they initially needed an armored package of guides on a tank chassis.
          1. 0
            4 July 2019 14: 53
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And they work precisely at the forefront, for which they initially needed an armored package of guides on a tank chassis.

            Range - 6 km. Not at the cutting edge.
            1. +1
              4 July 2019 15: 24
              Direct visibility and range of destruction by wearable means - this is still the leading edge. And it’s not always applied to the maximum range.
            2. +1
              4 July 2019 17: 03
              Quote: Gritsa
              Range - 6 km.

              This does not mean that they will be 6 km from the contact line.
        2. +1
          4 July 2019 16: 58
          Quote: Gritsa
          Quote: Spade
          We have a penny saving paid for by repeatedly increasing the likelihood of destruction of CBT in battle. Hooray...

          And what, is the participation of Tosochka supposed in the battle at the forefront? Or just before the trenches?

          Exactly. Initially, for this they were intended, semi-direct aiming, point targets. In Komsomolsky they shot 300 meters from the outermost houses
  6. 0
    4 July 2019 09: 23
    I imagined, or how? Like "the other day" there was the same article "about Tosochka"! what
  7. 0
    4 July 2019 09: 48
    Pure export option
  8. 0
    4 July 2019 11: 25
    I don’t think that Tosochka is replacing the Pinocchio. Export plus a pair of mouths for oneself, to give a boost or an airborne gift. The idea as a whole is not bad, the question is how to implement it.
  9. +3
    4 July 2019 11: 46
    Quote: Spade
    In fact, the Defense Ministry, which has already set the teeth on edge and is mentioned by the functionaries of the Ministry of Defense through the word "Syrian experience", requires a reverse - a radical increase in the security of TOS. For example, by additional booking a package of guides and installing KAZ + KOEP

    I agree, it is already starting to stir up. When they enthusiastically talk about the work of TPS in Syria and at the same time show on video how cars, even without DZ, roll out into the zone of their effective destruction by ATGMs among the bare as a table of the terrain as a matter of course. And remembering a photo from the Internet with crews of "Syrians" in vests, it becomes even sadder. And then there is such a decision ... wheels that do not imply an increase in the weight of serious protection.
    1. +1
      4 July 2019 12: 08
      Keyword ATGM. If they put KAZ it will already be nice. Well, and most importantly, CBT is the mass of the fire mixture. If the ATGM comes in the package, it doesn’t matter which chassis, the kirdyk is unique.
      1. -1
        4 July 2019 15: 28
        Absolutely not a fact. This is the beauty of a fire mixture against TNT or gunpowder, that it does not explode without air. Partial spillage of a mixture of broken missiles will occur with possible (not mandatory) ignition.

        If the engines of the shells pass as if it were no worse. Although, there is a chance that they will simply fly away ..
        1. +1
          4 July 2019 15: 36
          When a rocket penetrates a bullet, it may not catch fire. But when hit by an ATGM, the damage will be much greater. The cumulative jet breaking through the rocket will definitely cause the dispersion of the mixture with subsequent ignition. The combustion temperature is huge, neighboring rockets will flare up in seconds. And the engines are ambiguous. Damage to the guide will cause jamming of the rocket and will not fly anywhere.
          1. 0
            4 July 2019 16: 42
            Only here the cumulative jet, in addition to the rocket, can also get into the chassis itself, for example, and booking a package protects it not from the jet, but from fragments and bullets that drag it.
            1. 0
              4 July 2019 21: 20
              The cumulative jet of ptur will equally well penetrate both the wheeled chassis and Solntsepek. Both in the package and in the case. Safety from Ptur is not armor, but organizational issues. Another question is that the wheeled chassis is much worse sewn up from other damaging factors. From anti-material rifles to IEDs. The most dangerous in my opinion is a mortar attack when deployed before a strike.
              1. -1
                5 July 2019 19: 01
                Ogh, the T-72 will directly hit any godfather, well. Yes, even on board - a 50mm armor plate will only penetrate a jet, and 1,5mm galvanized steel will unfurl with a blast wave along with all the insides.
                1. -1
                  5 July 2019 19: 40
                  Almost any ATGM that reaches 6 km will be able to break through both Solntsepek and Tosochka.
        2. +1
          4 July 2019 17: 07
          Quote: Sancho_SP
          This is the beauty of a fire mixture against TNT or gunpowder, that it does not explode without air.

          The thermobaric mixture explodes. It is based on RDX.
          1. +1
            5 July 2019 05: 16
            No. Usually propylene oxide or ethylene oxide. First, a special charge is triggered, which sprays them, then a special detonator.
            1. +1
              5 July 2019 08: 26
              Quote: riwas
              No. Usually propylene oxide or ethylene oxide. First, a special charge is triggered, which sprays them, then a special detonator.

              What you wrote is valid for push-pull volumetric explosive ordnance.
              And thermobaric ones are single-cycle, for which clouds of fuel assemblies are not created (there is no "sputtering", there are no additional "special detonators")
              Therefore, to ensure the "Turbulent afterburning mode", RDX is introduced into the TB mixture
  10. +1
    4 July 2019 20: 35
    It is an art to write so much and at the same time NOTHING.
  11. -1
    4 July 2019 21: 58
    The Lord, if there is one, I suppose: that only humanity will not come up with for self-destruction
  12. 0
    14 August 2019 22: 51
    Dream is a little girl.
    Range from 6 to 160-200 km
    The possibility of software dispersion, for example, a grid of 500 meters between the shells.
    High-precision SD
    Network centricity
    The possibility of landing
    Wheel chassis speed up to 130 mph on asphalt roads.
    The possibility of using nuclear weapons
    Here ... For example, the enemy rushing through the front of a small group of 5-6 million people ..
    He drove out two or three dozen MLRS with TNW and ......

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