Goliath delivered to Star

There were pictures of the Goliath crane delivered by sea to the Big Stone with a load capacity of 1,2 thousand tons. We are talking about the delivery of equipment for working with supermassive objects at the shipyard Zvezda.

This is the second crane "Goliath", which is delivered to the Big Stone Shipyard. The first was delivered last year. The height of the crane is 117 m, the width of the Goliath support is almost 190 m.

It is known that the second “Goliath” will be installed in the dry dock of the shipyard after the delivery of auxiliary equipment necessary for its operation.

For what purpose do you plan to use the crane "Goliath" on the "Star"?

It will be used in the construction of not only military, but also civil engineering. This includes gas carriers and icebreakers of the Leader project. Many of these ships are focused on work in the Arctic.

In the near future, commissioning is planned.

The crane “Goliath” is equipped with an automated control system, which, by reading commands from multiple sensors, allows one giant person to control this gigantic structure.

Press Service of the SSC "Star" reports that the dry dock is an object of the 2-th queue. Commissioning of this object with dimensions of 485х114х15 m will be commissioned significantly ahead of time. Initially, the change was to take place in the 2023 year, but now all the work is planned to be completed in 2020.

Comments

[Ingvar 72]

Crane probably Russian production!

[Nevsky_ZU]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Crane probably Russian production!

Are you from a sect, who believes that the Russian Federation with a population of 150 million, should produce on its territory, what did 285 million of USSR + Warsaw Pact countries produce? I could never understand why the Russian Federation should produce everything that the collective West does, including China? Are we another planet and civilization? Are we not part of the global market for the division of labor? From an office clip to a mega tap, do everything ?!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

Are you from a sect

Yes, I am from the sect of those who consider Russia not only as a land power, and that it should produce such cranes on its territory, and not buy from dubious "partners". These are strategic products. China can and should do this, but we can't?

[Yaro Polk]

But your "partners", they forgot about all the sanctions, and stuck their tongues in the well ..., and adjusted the taps, and forgot about Ukraine, which says that "the whole World ZNAMI", loot rules the World)

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Yes, I am from the sect of those who consider Russia not only a land power, and that it should produce such cranes on its territory, and not buy from dubious "partners"

That's interesting: the USSR could afford to buy such cranes abroad, but the Russian Federation - no? Or do you not know whose cranes stood on the slipway where the Soviet TAVKR were built?

[kapitan92]

Quote: Alexey RA

That's interesting: the USSR could afford to buy such cranes abroad, but the Russian Federation - no? Or do you not know whose cranes stood on the slipway where the Soviet TAVKR were built?

Two Finnish cranes "KONE" appeared in the city of Nikolaev at the height of the Cold War, for the construction of aircraft carriers. (900tn carrying capacity)

In early 1977, the Ministry of Foreign Trade signed a contract with the Finnish company KONE for the supply of two 900-ton cranes for the Black Sea Shipyard. The cost of the cranes was $ 20 million.

Delivery of cranes and technological equipment for their installation was carried out from Finland on four pontoons using tugboats. The shipping operation of these cranes by sea was unique in itself. Total weight of one crane - 343

http://photo.bazar.nikolaev.ua/foto/inzhenernyie-sooruzheniya/kranyi-chsz-gruzopodemnostyu-900-tonn.html

[NEOZ]

Quote: Ingvar 72

what should she produce

I can also think that you should lift a heavy barbell + swim fast + run fast + be a scientist + be a physician + be a biologist ... but what I think does not affect anything!

[bayard]

Even the mighty Soviet Union did not produce such cranes - they bought it for their shipyards. For the Nikolaev Shipyard, cranes were purchased in Finland. And the machine park at the defense plants of the USSR was equipped including from foreign-made machines - Germany, Japan, etc.
Orders for such cranes happen once a decade / decade, what profitability can be said for such a specialized production? And while we build it, we will start production ... the shipyard will be equipped too late, the train will leave.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: bayard

And the machine park at the defense plants of the USSR was equipped including from foreign-made machines - Germany, Japan, etc.

Oh yeah ... with the equipment sellers doing their best to get around CoCom's export restrictions. The Japanese once managed to bring unique machine tools to the USSR with the mediation of the trade division of the Norwegian state defense enterprise (the famous Toshiba-Kongsberg Case). The "unsinkable aircraft carrier" and the closest US ally in the Far East, through the mediation of a NATO country, supplied machines for processing propellers of Soviet nuclear submarines.

[URAL72]

And how many of these cranes does Russia need to say in the five-year period? I think these two years are enough for twenty. So why make them? They will be gold. We won’t be able to become a leader in world shipbuilding, even the climate is against us, because it increases production costs. We need to look at imports - if we buy cars for billions not rubles a year, then we need to develop the auto structure. There are successes. And further down the list.

[Greenwood]

Quote: URAL72

if we buy cars for billions not rubles a year, then we need to develop the auto structure. There are successes.

The Japanese are ahead. And you can’t look at our UAZ Patriot without tears and mats.

[DPN]

The Japanese did not do with their country that WE managed in 1991 and a little earlier with Gorbachev Yeltsin and in whatever ass the Japanese were after such events.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: DPN

The Japanese did not do with their country that. WE MANAGED IN 1991

Well, firstly not us, but with us. Secondly, Japan lost the war, and literally out of total ruin in 30 years, became the world leader in industry and electronics. Without resources, with industry destroyed. We have already passed since the 91st 28 years - where at least something close to the results of the Japanese?

[Cat man null]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Quote: DPN

The Japanese did not do with their country that. WE MANAGED IN 1991

Well, firstly not us, but with us

That is, personally, you - as if nothing to do with it?

Convenient position)))

Quote: Ingvar 72

Japan lost the war, and literally out of total ruin over 30 years, it became the world leader in industry and electronics. Without resources, with industry destroyed

Selling your US sovereignty. In exchange for help

Quote: Ingvar 72

We have already passed since 91 28 - where is at least something close to the results of the Japanese?

Are you talking about sovereignty?

[DPN]

We have already passed since 91 28 - where is at least something close to the results of the Japanese?
And the unas is becoming more complicated, until everything Soviet has been finished off and the division of national wealth has not ended, so spanking is still a long, long time.

[missuris]

Did the Americans open their market for us? gave American cheap loans? began to build factories in Russia in the 90s? Americans only invested in western Europe after World War II, in Japan, in Korea after the Korean War, in China in the 2s, and now little by little in themselves and in India as opposed to China.
After China, no country received normal trading bonuses from the states

[78bor1973]

Even in the 250 millionth USSR, such cranes have never been produced, and much more has not been produced, for example floating docks of large displacement!

[DPN]

The Russian Federation is obliged to produce the most necessary things, otherwise it will part with its territory, now there is no buffer between Moscow and the West.

[NEOZ]

Quote: DPN

The most necessary is required to produce the Russian Federation

Well, you started with yourself, right?
you have a higher technical education, you do not smoke, do not drink, play sports, you have work related to industrial production, you have at least three children. is everything right?

[Fikys]

How did you find out? !! :)))

[knn54]

-Nevsky_ZU: From an office paper clip to a megacrane to do everything ?!
And explain where the domestic equipment - machines, lines is "worth". Or you don’t notice what the sanctions of the so-called "collective West" have led to. In an emergency, you have to find a replacement for electronic components. Composite materials. From China to receive ready-made canned food from seafood caught in Russian waters. Even books are printed in Chinese printing houses. Do you call this "global division of labor" ???

[syndicalist]

Fuck with him, with a crane. Maybe it's worth buying them, since they are selling. But, here is yesterday's news - Rostselmash stopped. In the early 90s, we produced 200 thousand tractors. By 2013, this number was reduced to one thousand. And now a complete stop.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: syndicalist

stopped Rostselmash

Do not panic for God's sake, overproduction and as a result a two-month stop. Prices will settle down and everything will work out.

[syndicalist]

A thousand tractors - overproduction? Once again - in the early 90s, 200 thousand were produced!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: syndicalist

A thousand tractors - overproduction?

He's joking! There is a market, but it is captured by imports. Any resident of the country sees construction tractors and roads mainly import tractors, at worst Belarus.

[Izotovp]

Constantly watching customers shipment of new Kirovtsy from the factory. Beautiful as imported. You can’t tell.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Izotovp

Beautiful as imported. You can’t tell.

I distinguish Kirovets from Kamatsu and GBC.

[StudentVK]

You are probably distinguished for the price) Kirovtsy are one of the best in the world in terms of price / quality.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Any resident of the country sees mostly imported tractors at construction sites and roads.

And if you have not learned to do your own?
You yourself probably have a foreign car in the garage

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Lipchanin

You yourself probably have a foreign car in the garage

Kalina is 8 years old. and I am satisfied, because it cost me less to maintain than the Opel Astra before 6 years. Both cars took new ones.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Kalina is 8 years old. and I am satisfied, because it cost me less to maintain than the Opel Astra before 6 years. Both cars took new ones.

Then on the roads and in parking lots for a hundred foreign cars, well, a dozen domestic cars have to

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Lipchanin

well, a dozen domestic cars accounted for

Is that good in your opinion?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Is that good in your opinion?

In my opinion everything is good that people need.
Since they have not learned to do their own, then they will buy strangers.
Do you think they just called our car "a bowl of bolts"?
I don’t know how other tractors did it, but I know perfectly how LTZ. And I know how their collective farms bought from above

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Lipchanin

Since they have not learned to do their own, then they will buy strangers.

Since my wife has a headache, do I need to go to a neighbor?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Since my wife has a headache, do I need to go to a neighbor?

And so they do
And the husband should not solve the problem of the head

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Lipchanin

And the husband should not solve the problem of the head

With such a worldview, are not you afraid and how do you eat overeat pears yourself?
But seriously, you need to develop your own, including the auto industry.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But seriously, you need to develop your own, including the auto industry.

There are two points: it makes sense to develop everything only through cooperation with those who already know how (as the USSR did), otherwise it will be necessary to invent bicycles themselves. Therefore, as the VAZ connected to Renault and Nissan (then replaced by Hyundai) - so dramatically the quality of the domestic auto industry went up.
And the second thing. less pleasant - we have established "capitalism", which means "the salvation of the drowning is the work of the drowning themselves", because now, on the one hand, we will have to go through all the stages of the establishment of this capitalism, on the other hand, we will have to go forever in the tabur of this capitalist train, for everything the seats in the salon are already taken and no one will give them away ...

[Serg65]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Any resident of the country sees construction tractors and roads mainly import tractors, at worst Belarus.

The most interesting thing is that Igor’s just looking too lazy is what Rostselmash is releasing!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Serg65

that you just look too lazy what Rostselmash produces!

I know Sergey. I respect its director. But then the conversation went on to the tractor.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Any resident of the country sees mostly imported tractors at construction sites and roads.

What are the construction sites with roads? Rostselmash is one of the world's largest manufacturers of agricultural machinery, the unit price of which sometimes surpasses the cost of various porsches and lamborghini. If you say the wrong comparison, then in this case you do not need to attract various komatsu and jisibi who still have not everywhere kicked out MTZ80-82

[Artavazdych]

You are absolutely wrong here. Rostselmash produces combines that are several times cheaper than John Deeres. Therefore, they displace local products, for example, in the USA.

[Artavazdych]

Rosselmash specializes not in tractors, but in combines. In the USA exports, for example

[Hagakure]

Bread bought FODDER for a HUGE livestock ...

[Nasrat]

Quote: Hagakure

Bread bought FODDER for a HUGE livestock ...

Don't lie to yourself ... In the 1950s, when the USSR was mainly exporting grain, there was also a stable import of 1-2 million tons per year. These were high quality wheat, which were not grown in the USSR, including the purchase of varietal seeds for subsequent breeding in the USSR.
We have always been fed the population that grows - i.e. It was fodder grain, and it was diluted with high-quality imported one .. and by 1985 they didn’t know what to feed the population at all, there wasn’t enough bread, they imported as much as 47 million tons !!!! What are the livestock numbers ??? Or are you so expressed about our people?

[Genry]

Quote: Nasr

its stable import of 1-2 million tons per year also existed. These were purchases of high-quality wheat varieties that were not grown in the USSR

Here you are the other way around .... Just hard varieties were sold, and fodder bought.
And hard varieties go to cakes, noodles and rolls. For the rest of the bread you need the usual high-quality grain.

[Nasrat]

To the question of 200 thousand tractors:

Fragments from the diary (1972-1984) by Anatoly Chernyaev, an employee of the International Department of the CPSU Central Committee:

December 1 1972
Before the 50th anniversary there was a plenum of the Central Committee. <...> Brezhnev made a big speech <...> "We are not fulfilling the five-year plan in almost all indicators, with the exception of some." <...>
«Shame on you, Comrade Kazanets [Minister of Ferrous Metallurgy] boast that you are smelting more than the USA ... And the quality of the metal? And the fact that from each ton only 40% goes into production in comparison with the American standard, the rest - into slag and shavings? ! "<...>" We still get 90 kopecks [profit] for one ruble of investments, and the Americans - on the contrary (90 cents - one dollar)».

December 17 1973
The plan has not been fulfilled for energy, metals, chemistry, light industry, etc. An extremely tense plan is outlined for 74, otherwise the five-year plan will burn: in its three years, 44 billion rubles will grow out of 103 billion planned for the entire five-year plan. <...> 60-70 million tons of metal we waste during processing. In terms of tonnage of metalworking machines, we produce as much as the United States, Japan and the Federal Republic of Germany combined, and in the number of machines made from this metal and in their productivity we are far behind each of them. Finland exports 10 times less wood than we do, and it helps to double the amount of currency exported under this export item. This is because she leaves us in an elementary unprocessed form.
They agreed with Germany to build a gas pipeline on a compensatory basis, but they didn’t do it on time, and we were sued for $ 55 for each day that was overdue.
2 billion rubles of slow-moving goods, that is, those from which the buyer turned away, were accumulated in warehouses. This is almost equal to the total investment in the entire light industry for the remainder of the five-year period.
The project for the construction of KamAZ was estimated at 1 billion 700 million rubles. Now it turned out that another 2,5 billion would be needed, and then, maybe more.
In 1955, they decided to build a polished glass factory in the city of Salavat. The project was ready by 1962. But in 1961 the British offered us a license for a plant with a different, fire methodology. In 1965, we bought a license from them, according to which three plants are already working and they produce magnificent glass. Meanwhile, the Salavat factory continued to be built. In 1972 it was finished, but it turned out that the installed equipment did not polish the glass, but broke it. All of it was put into remelting. And so far it has not been possible to establish who is responsible for all this.
Our aircraft and car engines have a much lower motor resource than them.
In Kursk, a knitwear factory was built on foreign equipment for especially scarce knitwear. But it works at half capacity: not enough labor. It turns out that when designing the factory, they forgot about housing.
A huge amount (I did not have time to fix the figure) of the grain collected this year was left to be stored in piles in the open. Rotted. Millions of rubles account for the loss of grain, cement, vegetables, fruits, etc. due to the lack of containers and untimely supply of vehicles. Due to the poor quality of the metal, we lay much more tons in the structure of it than could be. Etc.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Hagakure

Bread bought FODDER for a HUGE livestock ...

For information, in those days in the USA, 7% of the population was involved in agriculture. In the USSR, about 27%.
But they had enough to eat and feed cattle and sell to us.
And about the HUGE livestock ...
- Why are there no meat on store shelves?
“We are moving towards communism with such steps that cattle do not keep pace with us.”
And guess the riddle. In those days, everyone knew her.
"Big, green, it smells like sausage"

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Lipchanin

And guess the riddle. In those days, everyone knew her.
"Big, green, it smells like sausage"

More precisely, "big, green, smells of sausage." For it was feminine:

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Alexey RA

For she was feminine:

Received

[mister-red]

If you weren’t too lazy and WOULD WOULD have watched all sorts of popular programs about production, travel and all sorts of these kinds, such questions would not be asked.
A simple example. Somewhere in the USA, I don’t remember the state, they showed a pig farm. Just a large area fenced with barbed wire. A huge herd of pigs on the street, no buildings. The owner brings various waste from dairy, chocolate and other industries (he takes it almost for free, it only costs transportation), he mixes it all, pours it into a tank attached to a tractor (very similar to shit-picking) and pours it all into long gutters, right on these pigs. All pigs are dirty from this food waste, knee-deep manure. Question: how can the cost of pork grown somewhere on a farm in the Ryazan Region compete in cost with this kind of production?

[Lipchanin]

Quote: mister-red

If you weren’t too lazy and WOULD WOULD watch all sorts of popular shows

After this phrase, it makes no sense to read.
There were TWO channels and NO ONE at home could watch anymore

[mister-red]

We are not talking about the 70-80s. And by the way, why are these two? We always had at least 4.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Lipchanin

For information, in those days in the USA, 7% of the population was involved in agriculture. In the USSR, about 27%.
But they had enough to eat and feed cattle and sell to us.

And why be surprised - you will start with the climate and it will become clear. that it was our agricultural was still relatively effective ...

[sunzhenets]

Quote: Lipchanin

For information, in those days in the USA, 7% of the population was involved in agriculture. In the USSR, about 27%.

These numbers are a good example of how statistics can be manipulated. When counting US agricultural workers, only permanent workers (excluding daily and seasonal workers) who were directly involved in agriculture were taken. When counting the agricultural workers of the USSR, all workers on collective farms and state farms, including the medical assistant, postman and head club.

Quote: Lipchanin

And about the HUGE livestock ...

Despite the jokes, milk consumption per capita is now significantly lower than in the USSR. Like milk production and cattle stock.

[Serg65]

Quote: Hagakure

Bread bought FODDER for a HUGE livestock ...

For cattle they bought corn in grains !!!!! 1-3 bread varieties for fodder will not work

[Lipchanin]

Quote: Nasr

200 thousand tractors from Rostselmash in the early 90's

And there were also LTZ, MTZ and many other TK

[Serg65]

Quote: Lipchanin

And there were also LTZ, MTZ and many other TK

Yes they were! But there were still fields of Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Cf. Asia, Moldova! And now only the Kuban, Volga and Altai! How many tractors do you need?

[syndicalist]

If we accept the opinion of experts that the population of Russia does not currently exceed 75 million, then indeed, less tractors are needed.

[Serg65]

Quote: syndicalist

then indeed, less tractors are needed.

How to combine your cry for tractors and modern record wheat crops? I don’t even know!

[syndicalist]

Smaller, but not 200 times!

[Vadim237]

One current tractor replaces 15 old ones, like modern CNC machines - one processing center can replace 100 old machines in operations.

[fruit_cake]

so they killed so much tractor production that it is better to buy a German tractor instead of your 15?

[yehat]

the USSR produced both CNC machines and modern tractors.

[Vadim237]

I have not seen a single German tractor, tractor and combine harvester in Russia engaged in Agromash and Rostselmash, the last word for the client that he likes and that he has money that he will buy. And Russia now does not have a planned economy - accordingly, so many tractors are not needed, you only need the number of tractors and everything else that is 100 percent bought.

[yehat]

you are all trying to evaluate the complex structure of the economy with a pair of numbers.
it won’t work out that way!

[syndicalist]

That's just it, that the economy itself is simplified to a couple of numbers. And the prospect of simplification to one digit is quite real. Say what?

[fruit_cake]

are these these agromash? american tractor? it turns out that the damned scoop is to blame for the destruction of tractors or easel production, that now we are buying CNC machines in the DPRK

[hydrox]

Bad.
Forgot Rostov Region with Stavropol, Central Chernozemye, Orenburg region with the Urals and the whole of Siberia to Novosibirsk, i.e. how would they reduce the sown area three times - and why?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Nasr

And they bought bread in the USA and Canada for 40 million tons !!!! ....

Yes? Are you sure about that? As far as I know, they bought feed grain for animal feed. Which fed cattle and you bought milk at 26 kopecks. per liter and ryazhenka at 40 kopecks per liter.

[Nasrat]

My friend, answer why:

The gross grain harvest per capita in 1913 (the whole Empire) was 500 kg, in 1990 (the whole USSR) - 700, 2017 - 980 kg (only Russia). For almost 80 years, the planned Soviet economy increased only 200 kg per capita, while for almost 30 years of a market economy, the increase was 300 kg, or 40%.

At the same time, sown areas for grain in Russia grew by only 18% - from 67 million hectares in the RSFSR in 1990 to 79 million hectares in 2017.

Grain productivity has grown from about 19 centners per hectare in 1990 to 32 c / ha in 2017, or by 68%.

Grain imports to the USSR in recent years of the planned system amounted to 35-40 million tons per year. In 2017, Russia exported 35 million tons of grain.

AND WHERE ALL THESE 200 thousand tractors were (annual !!!) ..... And remember - Russia does not have fertile Ukraine and virgin lands of Kazakhstan !!!!! AND WHY COULD NOT GROW FODDER GRAIN FOR CATTLE ????? Think
At the same time, you can now buy feed in any quantity, just don’t be lazy to breed the animal, and in those years it was not conceivable ... Why so ???

[Krasnoyarsk]

[quote = NasRat] The gross grain harvest per capita in 1913 (the whole Empire) was 500 kg,
But at the same time, not everyone is working and members their families ate even bread.
[quote = NasRat] For almost 80 years, the planned Soviet economy increased only 200 kg per capita in [/ quote]
But at the same time, everyone is working and t. their families have not starved since 1937. Of course, it is necessary to exclude the Second World War and 47 years. (The hungry 47th has quite objective reasons and was the last hungry year in Russia. But yours came in the 90s and it all happened again.)
[quote = NasRat] Grain productivity has grown from about 19 centners from ha in 1990 to 32 kg / ha in 2017, or by 68%. [/ quote]
With a yield of 19 c / ha, the entire people of the USSR ate high-quality bread, and today only certain segments of the population. And the rest eat only the so-called "social" bread. It suits you? Continue to admire the achievements of the market economy.
[quote = NasRat] In 2017, Russia exported 35 million tons of grain. [/ quote]
And you take an interest in what grain Russia exported. And where.
And finally, I hope you will not argue with the fact that the quality of Soviet food, quite accessible to the ordinary citizen of the USSR, was an order of magnitude higher than modern Russian, let alone imported.
Because grandfather Lenin taught: "Less is better, but better."

[AU Ivanov.]

The quality of Soviet food. Yes, there was no GMO back then. But he was not in the whole world, not only in the USSR. And there was no internet. But the Danish technology of forced fattening of pigs on hormones and additives, Soviet agricultural producers have already begun to adopt. As well as herbal ingredients for the production of meat products. Mineral fertilizers. In the mid-80s, they suddenly discovered that in terms of the content of nitrates in vegetables, we are ahead of the rest. So, in the introduction of "advanced" agricultural methods, the USSR quickly caught up with the developed countries.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

But the Danish technology of forced fattening pigs on hormones and supplements, Soviet agricultural producers have already begun to adopt. Like herbal ingredients for the production of meat products.

Something I not only did not observe it even in the late 90s, but did not even hear about it.
About nitrates in vegetables ... Are you sure they were there?
The hunchback had to discredit the Soviet system, and the shameless journalists went all out. I talked with one such - "... the main thing, by hook or by crook, it does not matter, to dump the communists. And then, we'll see." We looked, wept ...

[AU Ivanov.]

Soy in sausage began to appear in the mid-80s. The pig farms began to transfer to accelerated fattening at the beginning. And just as mineral fertilizers were poured without control by the compositions, this is a witness to it. Because of nitrates, the potato was not preserved until the middle of winter - it rotted. So, if the Soviet Union, if it were preserved, would use the full modern technology, everything went to this

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Soy in sausage began to appear in the mid-80s.

Sorry, I didn’t know that soy is -

Quote: AS Ivanov.

hormones and supplements

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And just as mineral fertilizers were poured without control by the compositions, this is a witness to it.

I cannot believe, even though you are a "witness to this", that agronomists were so ... to put it mildly, stupid. Why do you consider them, agronomists, stupider than yourself?

[AU Ivanov.]

Agronomists were just not stupid and knew how to carry out the plan at any cost. From high dosages of chemical fertilizers, the yield increases, but its quality decreases. They handed over the harvest to the state, got buns, and there even grass does not grow.
Soy protein is not added to meat on the farm, but in meat processing plants., As an ingredient in sausages.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

Agronomists were just not stupid and knew how to carry out the plan at any cost.

Do you even out everyone? Or only agronomists?

[AU Ivanov.]

If the Soviet enterprise did not systematically fulfill the delivery plans it had been given to it, then organizational conclusions were made. As a result of which the top could lose party cards, and this is the end of a career. So that the plan was issued at any cost, including overstating the dosage of fertilizers. So that rained. And they received orders for this. And DES (sex hormone) pricked the cows, to increase milk yield.

[Vadim237]

They began to cheat with sausage back in the late 60s.

[AU Ivanov.]

Soya went to sausages in the late 70s. Before that, dabbled in with food pulp. Remember the bike that added toilet paper to the sausage? This, of course, is a bike; nobody added scarce toilet paper there. But there was some truth - cellulose (raw material for toilet paper) was still strewed.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Vadim237

They began to cheat with sausage back in the late 60s.

Yeah. And they began to release "Doktorskaya". Such that if it were produced today according to the then recipe, it would be the most expensive sausage.

[Simargl]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And they started to release "Doctor". Such that if it were produced today according to the then recipe, it would be the most expensive sausage.

"Doktorskaya" began to be released much earlier than the 60s. And yes - then she was good. But the people demanded sausages, and there were interruptions with the meat, but the plan had to be fulfilled, and overfulfilled too ... because ... "the machine gun shot down with renewed vigor" ...
I won't say for the 60s, but in the early 80s, even before "labeled", the people were eager to import (why would that be?) ...

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Simargl

the people demanded sausages, but there were interruptions with the meat, but the plan had to be fulfilled, and overfulfilled too ... because ... "the machine gun shot down with renewed vigor" ...

We are still a strange people. Water the left government with full force, and ignore the disgusting work of the present. Was there a tension with meat and dairy products in all regions and republics? No, not all. But the Soviet government is to blame !!! Not a specific secretary of the regional committee or union republic, but all the power !!! Is the situation of Russian citizens the same in all regions and regions today? No!!! But nobody blames the authorities! Everyone blames the governors! Why? Because our people have a vile habit of "kicking a dead lion"! And grovel in front of the "living hyena".

[Simargl]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Watering the power that has left the slop with full force, and ignoring the disgusting work of the present.

Need to water the non-current? And about the non-living I have. But we are talking about those times.

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

In all regions and republics there was tension with meat and dairy products?

Of course not. I tried bananas in Moscow for the first time. I eat meat every day, and then once a week. I don’t buy any sausage, but then I even ate liver people (I still can’t eat paste).

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Not a specific secretary of a regional committee or union republic, but all power !!!

When a statistical mass is gathered of messages about these specifics, judging by many data - not just significant, but significant, these are not individual people, but a trend and, it turns out, power.

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

But nobody blames the authorities! Everyone blames the governors! Why? Because our people have a vile habit of "kicking a dead lion"! And grovel in front of the "living hyena".

Are you from a parallel reality ?! I hear about the governor once a month, but about the "head" - all the time.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Simargl

Are you from a parallel reality ?! I hear about the governor once a month, but about the "head" - all the time.

You definitely need someone to put something in your head. To independently observe and draw conclusions "not destiny"?

[Simargl]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

To independently observe and draw conclusions "not destiny"?

Watch that?
Draw conclusions - what? The same as you? I have a lot of mine.

[Vadim237]

This is vryatli, it was then that ground cartilage and additives began to be used. And about the same one according to Soviet recipes, before the hack, it is sold now.

[Rzzz]

"doctoral" was started in the early 30s.

[Yeah]

The potato may have rotted, not only because they had nitrates in them, but because they did not know how to store them correctly, the storages were antediluvian, even now modern storage complexes are single throughout Russia if they forgot about the Moscow Eliseevsky store! where only the use of modern refrigeration equipment such surpluses appeared ..... In 80 ... went to Italy Vinogradova (2 director of the NIIS named after Lisavenko) so there apples were then stored for 1 year, until the next harvest !!!!! And with us? .... We could already produce then, save is a problem, both in grain and in vegetables and fruits.

[Vadim237]

GMOs are still not in Russia and no one is planting and selling them.

[NordUral]

If so, Vadim, but the seed fund that the country buys harm is all checked. So there are doubts.

[Vadim237]

Of those seeds that I acquired in Moscow, and in the Volgograd region, GMOs have never been found.

[Simargl]

Quote: Vadim237

GMOs are still not in Russia and no one is planting and selling them.

Any hybrid in a bag that you buy is, in fact, GMO.

[Vadim237]

So this is a selection hybrid - but not modified with animal genes.

[Simargl]

Quote: Vadim237

So this is a breeding hybrid - not a modified

Is there a big difference?
Chlamydia in the genital tract affects the offspring, but the fish gene in tomatoes does not. It just so happened that nonsense about GMOs is spread by ignorant people.
Food may contain certain substances, they may be harmful (heavy metals, psychoactive compounds), may be useful (fats, proteinи) And only by the presence of these substances the food will be harmful or not very (or even useful).
The only harm to GMOs is that when growing on their territory you need to constantly buy seed stock (GMO production is prohibited in our country, but you can grow products), because GMOs - sterile hybrids.

[Vadim237]

The consequences of consuming GMOs can only be estimated in a few decades. Since no one really proved whether they are harmful or not.

[Simargl]

Quote: Vadim237

The consequences of consuming GMOs can only be estimated in a few decades.

A few decades after that? So they are used for a little less than 40 years. Many people who consumed them from old age have died.

Quote: Vadim237

Since no one really proved whether they are harmful or not.

let me prove it.
If you have oats with a frog, it’s safe (someone will have to get used to oats, someone has to get used to frogs). If you mix genes (in the stomach, this will happen until the DNA is split) - everything will be just as safe. The danger will appear if frogs, oats or their hybrid are grown on steroids or their food / fertilizer contains an excess of harmful substances.
However, if the hybrid of oats and frogs is aggressive, they will have to be killed before use. .

[ZAV69]

In Soviet times, there were collective farms and state farms in my area, in every village there was a farm, and a herd on the farm. Each field was sown, all this was served by agricultural machinery and agricultural chemistry. There were 7 dairies and two distilleries. Right now, in the place of the farms are concrete ribs, birch trees are growing in the fields, the farm machinery depot has been sold out, the dairies have been handed over for scrap, the distilleries have closed. In place of the collective farm workshops, even the foundations remained. The only thing that has improved is the passage to Moscow, a bunch of minibuses swept one bus in the morning.
This is all in the Tula region.
So if something has grown somewhere, then this is black earth. Non-Black Earth is dead. Some holiday villages breed.

[AU Ivanov.]

Non-chernozem - a zone of risky farming. Agriculture rested mainly on subsidies.

[ZAV69]

If you manage with your mind, you could live comfortably. Now who survived they grow potatoes, and quite large farms. Cereals are only for fodder, as there is not enough cattle enough. If you engage in animal husbandry, then it is quite possible to flourish, and because the dairies were covered, it makes no sense to keep the dairy herd. In short, a vicious circle, no milk — no plants — no factories — why the hell do you need cattle — no cattle — no milk. Local farmers who have built up a client base in the city are quite prosperous, but they have minuscule amounts of their own milk, butter, cheese, cottage cheese and sour cream in the market sold or delivered to customers. To ruin everything turned out to be easier than an easy one, but to start up production again is already difficult, there is no money, no workers, all on duty in Moscow. And damn it Ankedot, you can’t say otherwise: all attempts to start commodity agricultural production are blocked by Moscow summer residents, they immediately raise a universal high, such as not environmentally friendly. Well, like Saltykov-Shchedrin in a fairy tale about a wild landowner.

[AU Ivanov.]

In Novgorod, peasants started stirring vegetables. Then the food embargo worked. The main thing is sales.

[Vadim237]

Nowadays, agricultural holdings are engaged in breeding dairy herds and are very successful, they are also building factories for its production - but only not all this milk goes to the domestic market.

[Fikys]

Quote: ZAV69

Local farmers who have built up a customer base in the city are quite prosperous, but they have minuscule amounts of their own milk, butter, cheese, cottage cheese and sour cream in the market sold or delivered to customers

And what's wrong with that? I myself buy milk, sour cream from a private trader, 80 r / l, in the store - 70 r / l, taste and quality - do not compare! My sour cream is eaten instead of butter, on sandwiches, I can’t use butter for this purpose, if I just put it in pieces;))

[ZAV69]

Well, for me personally, there is nothing wrong either, I take milk, butter and cheese from a private trader. The quality is naturally higher than the store by an order of magnitude. But for the district ....... Production has died, jobs too.

[Fikys]

And the very farm (private) economy is not production? There is output at the output, and quality! And those same farmers and their families do not work there? Moreover, they work more than the collective farmers on the collective farm, and they don’t feed a bunch of parasites, and therefore they live better. And how many dozens (or even hundreds) of such farms can be accommodated in the territories of the former collective farm? At the same time, one should not forget that the farmer is a person who is provided not only with work, but also with housing, such as he and his family need, and farmers, for the most part, ask the state only one thing: do not interfere with their work!

[ZAV69]

The sofa strategist is immediately visible from the capital. Have you seen at least one farmer up close? What is there on {a three-letter word that easily replaces any} production. A maximum of 20% of what was plowed up. From the entire collective farm-state farm, the director, chief engineer and chief accountant became a farmer. The rest, with rare exceptions, walked through the forest and ended up working in Moscow or elsewhere. In the villages, there are now mainly summer residents. In winter, you go and there is not a trace. Earlier, at the end of summer, caravans of zils and lawns went to the KPP, now it was bought by "Russian seeds", from them it passed to "Kubanmaslo" and there is not a grain of grain there, the seed is for the operation of the creamery. The dairy plant has long been in ruins, before every day cottage cheese and sour cream were brought to Moscow. There used to be such an office as "Zagotskot", of course it was not idle. There are also several large farms in the region that grow potatoes, but this is minuscule.
Yes, I wrote earlier that some flourish and sells their milk, but these can be counted on the fingers. And even then, they can flourish conditionally.
I have no words......

[Fikys]

Quote: ZAV69

You can immediately see the sofa strategist from the main throne

Check your vision, it brings you;)

Quote: ZAV69

Have you seen at least one farmer?

I live in a village, I personally know a few, I am a member of a farming club. I don’t consider myself a farmer, because agricultural income is not my main income, but I'm going to this!
The farmer’s labor productivity, if we take into account the number of products delivered per buyer per worker, is an order of magnitude higher than the collective farmer’s labor productivity. You should understand one simple thing: if agricultural enterprises are not being restored in their previous form, then this is simple - it’s simply not profitable.

Quote: ZAV69

I have no words......

And rightly so. We need to say less and do more. That's it for me!

[ZAV69]

Judging by the time of writing, your region is not a non-black soil, so everything is possible with chocolate in it. And in our Tula region, the Venevsky district is everything as I described. And I did not write from scratch, by occupation I regularly ride around the area and see everything, and I communicate with the people, I know some farmers personally.

[Fikys]

Primorsky Krai.

[ZAV69]

Well, that’s understandable. Another edge of Russia. Very different conditions. Yes, here 300 km drive off completely differently, everything is seeded in the Lipetsk region. We have non-black soil, the average yield was 16 centners, plus the neighborhood with the Moscow region. Half of the area is already considered the suburban zone of Moscow. On Friday, a stream of cars to us, on Sunday from us. Also a very important factor. I think I wrote that a lot of people go to work in Moscow. Here you can even see with a naked eye, one village on the border with the Moscow Region and near the highway, it is clear that it is flourishing, but there is almost no agricultural production. All work in the Moscow Region (Kashira, Stupino). Another village is far from the highway and far from the MO, there is some agricultural production, but the poverty is terrible, the technique is still patchy rolled back from the times of the USSR, what is grown and sold is barely enough. Yes, you can write a lot. We cannot be compared with the Primorsky Territory, completely different conditions, other problems.

[Fikys]

And according to your description, it is very similar. It is also a risky farming zone, a fertile layer on the virgin soil - 10-15 cm, then either clay, or rock, or mixed. The Nadezhdinsky district, in fact, is a suburban suburb of Vladivostok, but this does not bother me at all, on the contrary - there are no problems with implementation, summer residents take everything and still ask, but so far they do not allow a larger area. Now I’m assimilating the hectare of the Far East, if everything grows together, I’ll switch to milk (now a bird), then it will be possible to leave work.

[NordUral]

And what is agriculture of the West based on? Take an interest, you will learn a lot of interesting things.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

Non-chernozem - a zone of risky farming. Agriculture rested mainly on subsidies.

Nicely said, but wrong. The non-black earth region perished as a result of the development of virgin lands. All resources from the non-black earth, specialists and equipment were redirected to the development of virgin lands. My father-in-law took me through the fields overgrown with bushes and open woodlands and showed me - "All this was arable land. Look, do you see a ruined brick building? It was a cheese factory in the village of Andreevskoye, and over there, there was another village, and another one on the other side. now there is nothing.My two sons and a daughter with a son-in-law plow the land in Kazakhstan.

[ZAV69]

Your father-in-law took you, but I saw with my own eyes. I saw what happened in the 80s, and what happened now. When was virgin land? Long. And our non-chernozem village still lived in its own right in the 80s, a big hap began in the 90s and the village was gone. I had the largest dairy plant behind the fence. Every morning collective-farm milk carriers accumulated from the whole region. Then milk was brought there even from the Oryol and Ryazan regions. Now the box is empty, several owners have changed. Now you can’t even find a stainless bolt there, some kind of carpool partially lodges.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: ZAV69

Your father-in-law took you, but I saw with my own eyes. I saw what happened in the 80s, and what happened now. When was virgin land? Long. And our non-chernozem village still lived in its own right in the 80s, a big hap began in the 90s and the village was gone. I had the largest dairy plant behind the fence. Every morning collective-farm milk carriers accumulated from the whole region. Then milk was brought there even from the Oryol and Ryazan regions. Now the box is empty, several owners have changed. Now you can’t even find a stainless bolt there, some kind of carpool partially lodges.

All right. The first ruin of the Non-Black Earth region was during the development of the virgin lands, the second - the enlargement of villages, this is the 80s, but the third ruin is not only for non-black soil, it was in the 90s for the whole country.

[Talgat I.]

Unclear.
I also remember the army participated in the harvest! students for potatoes, pioneers of cotton in Central Asia harvested.
and now the farmers have time to sow, harvest, etc.

[AU Ivanov.]

I will say more: three farms produce more potatoes than the once existing collective farm. With the number of employees there are five times fewer commercials (there are no parasites in the form of all kinds of standardizers, party organizers and other parasites) and in smaller sown areas.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: AU Ivanov.

I will say more: three farms produce more potatoes than the once existing collective farm. With the number of employees there are five times fewer commercials (there are no parasites in the form of all kinds of standardizers, party organizers and other parasites) and in smaller sown areas.

Did the "once existing collective farm" only grow "kartosu"? Or maybe something else? AND? And these "three farms" can have at least one kindergarten? Maybe they also support the school? And their employees pay sick leave? Children in a pioneer camp for 10% of the cost of vouchers are given? Does it give vouchers to its employees, perhaps, to a sanatorium, also for 10% of the cost?
So, dear comrade AS Ivanov, you can talk even more.

[AU Ivanov.]

This is when and where did the collective farms maintain schools? Schools have always been funded by the Ministry of Education. The farmer pays taxes - this is enough; kindergartens and schools are maintained for this money. And to produce non-core assets is not the best solution for an entrepreneur. Once existing, it was just a potato farm. Monoculture.

[Krasnoyarsk]

[quote = AS Ivanov Once existed, it was just a potato farm. Monoculture. [/ Quote]
Tell these fables to someone else, but not to me. As the main one, it’s quite possible, but you probably don’t know what a crop rotation is. Collective farms and state farms also paid taxes. My factory also paid taxes, but also provided patronage assistance to the school, where the children of the factory workers studied and not only them, the vocational school was on the balance of the factory, a recreation center, a pioneer camp, a clinic in the factory, a culture house with a rotary stage and an auditorium on 700 places, for children a music class, SUT, library, reading room, ballet studio. Can all your farmers provide this? Your taxes?
Let's leave our dispute, it is futile. If you took the position of denying everything Soviet, even if there was a lot of good in it, then what's the point of proving something to you? Today you live well and you are satisfied with it. How do others live for you? Such selfishness ... Just do not say that they themselves are to blame for the fact that they live badly. I wish you well.

[Fikys]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Just don’t say that they themselves are to blame for living poorly

And why is that?! Do you have something against the truth?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Fikys

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Just don’t say that they themselves are to blame for living poorly

And why is that?! Do you have something against the truth?

Because there can be many reasons, objective. And the time will come when you will familiarize yourself with them. In my own skin. Only then do not say that someone is to blame.
In Russia, as they say? - Do not renounce from prison and from sumy.

[Fikys]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

In Russia, as they say? - Do not renounce from prison and from sumy.

And I do not renounce this, but from whining and begging. And to prevent this - in my power, even in prison and with a bag!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Fikys

And to prevent this - in my power, even in prison and with a bag!

In yours, in yours. Just know - if more is poured into your vessel than a person needs for a normal life, then someone hasn’t been refilled, but for someone it’s completely empty. Well, with your snobbery, this is not to understand.

[Fikys]

If someone was not "refilled" with self-esteem, then yes, I will not call his normal life.
Snobbery is not the worst, parasitism is much worse!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Fikys

Snobbery is not the worst, parasitism is much worse!

At one time, being an electrician, he was awarded the Order of Labor Glory, 3rd degree. Probably for parasitism. In those days, there was such a reference book - ETKS. In it, with mathematical precision, the salaries of all workers were calculated, from the watchman, the cleaner to the minister, inclusive. Today your salary is out of the blue, so it is not a fact that you earn what you get. Therefore, your salary is not your merit. So don't get overwhelmed. There are people whose labor contribution to the public pie is greater than yours, but their labor is paid less than yours. Keep this in mind.

[Fikys]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

At one time, being an electrician, he was awarded the Order of Labor Glory, 3rd degree. Probably for parasitism.

Did I say something about "that time" and you specifically? And I consider a parasite to be one who consumes more than produces. Do you have something against this interpretation? By the way, if a person for 20 years sharpens an unnecessary detail, receiving a penny for it, then he is at least a lazy person. Moral. Because he does not want to find strength in himself and overcome his own inertia. Why pay him more ?!

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Today your salary is taken from the ceiling, so it is not a fact that you earn what you get. Therefore, your salary is not your merit.

My salary was not taken from the ceiling, it is the result of my agreement with the employer, and this is my merit! If something does not suit me at work, I first try to find a compromise with the employer, if it does not work out, I look for another place of work, and do not whine in the same way. Now my work completely suits me, but this did not happen immediately and not by itself.

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

There are people whose labor contribution to the public pie is more than yours, but they pay less than yours. Keep this in mind.

If these people want nothing делать to correct this situation, then it suits them. No options!

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Fikys

A parasite, I think the one who consumes more than produces. Do you have something against such an interpretation?

Behind! With both hands.

Quote: Fikys

By the way, if a person of 20 years old grinds an unnecessary detail, getting a penny for it, then he is at least a lazy person.

I can not agree with you. He is just a turner, and he does not decide whether anyone needs the part or not. Once the employer instructed him to sharpen this detail, then someone needs it. And if everyone refuses to sharpen this detail because they pay a penny, then tomorrow, looking back, you will suddenly find that there is not much that was, which you are used to and without which you can no longer do. Indeed, it can be so. And so it was, but China saved its consumer goods, Turkey and other Poland. Do you like this?
People have different personalities. Some, like you, are looking for where is better, and find, and are proud that such "smart", they say, found where is better. Others try to do better where they are. It is on such and such a country that keeps. And people like you, just no offense, are called - rolling stone. They give nothing to the Motherland.

Quote: Fikys

My salary is not taken from the ceiling, it is the result of my agreement with the employer,

This very agreement is the "salary from the ceiling". It is not calculated. This is a primitive arrangement.

Quote: Fikys

If these people do not want to do anything to rectify this situation, then it suits them. No options!

No, it doesn't suit them. But they understand that if they start to "pull the blanket over themselves," they will pull it off you. Then you, after all, you are "smart", enterprising, begin to pull the blanket over yourself, then they. And so on ad infinitum. Think about where this will lead and where is the way out?

[Fikys]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

He is just a turner, and he does not decide whether anyone needs the part or not.

This was one of the reasons that the USSR profiled. If we don’t want to see further than our nose, then we are also profounding the Russian Federation. And what's next?!

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

saved China with its consumer goods,

Not saved, but ditched. Because otherwise they would again sharpen the part, but already necessary, and for a normal payment. And you don’t need to sharpen anything anymore, they bought a Chinese cheap thing, and that’s it.

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

others try to do better where they are

If really are trying, then it’s an honor and praise, only the majority just aches, and nagging is a cheap thing, they don’t pay much for it;)

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And people like you, just no offense, are called - roll the field. They give nothing to the motherland.

Those. if I achieved a normal payment for my work, then this depreciated my work ?! In your opinion, truly valuable work for which they do not pay ?!

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

This very agreement is the "salary from the ceiling". It is not calculated. This is a primitive arrangement.

A contract is when one is certified for the next rank, and the other is not, for merits not at all of a labor nature;), and I have an honest one with my employer agreement that I sell my work (knowledge, skills, abilities), and he buys them. If the employer does not calculate the salaries of employees, he will go bankrupt and cease to be an employer, and the head of the workshop will not cease to be either the head of the workshop or the chairman of the certification committee;)

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

But they understand that if they start to "pull the blanket over themselves," they will pull it off you.

Not from me, but from my employer, and not a blanket, but an unhealthy fat. In general, this is a typical excuse for moral lazy people.
PS I'm not just writing this. I happened to be both an employer and an employee, so I know the situation from both sides.

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Fikys

PS I'm not just writing this. I happened to be both an employer and an employee, so I know the situation from both sides.

So I, too, seem to have done it with my finger, and I also know the situation from different angles.

[Simargl]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

So, dear comrade AS Ivanov, you can talk even more.

Then a wave was driven for Grudinin. Here they take an interest. And in fact ...

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And these "three farms" can have at least one kindergarten?

Oddly enough, but many people have a "family kindergarten" regime (this is when a special person / people are dispatched to educate small ones, while the elders are plowing). A separate building for 5-10 people - why?

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Maybe they also have a school?

And the army. And the police. And medicine. Taxes - they are: they contain a lot.

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

And sick pay for their employees?

Well you! Which farmer will work on ZoT ?!

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Children in a pioneer camp for 10% of the cost of the permit give?

Then I did not understand at all. A farmer is an IP, usually. For 10% of the cost should he sell his ticket to his child?

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

It gives its employees, perhaps, in a sanatorium, permits for 10% of the cost?

Given that in the country to issue permits - this is direct losses, and during a lull period (winter, for example) - permits and so much cheaper ... maybe not 10%, but quite a possible phenomenon.

[yehat]

you forget that the farmer is not an office worker. he doesn’t have to run to work at 7 every morning and he usually lives outdoors, he doesn’t have to go anywhere for a normal rest.

[ZAV69]

Quote: yehat

he doesn’t have to run at 7 every morning to work

Of course not, but he needs to get up at 5 in the morning and milk some cows

[Simargl]

Quote: ZAV69

Of course not, but he needs to get up at 5 in the morning and milk some cows

Plankton is easier to work with. But working in production is much harder.

[ZAV69]

That plankton, that a worker in production needs to get up, go for a walk and go to the place of work. And usually by 8 o’clock (sometimes it can be by 7 or 9). Another thing is that their work is different. But in the village, cattle want to eat and milk early, the fact is that cattle, in the sun, are most often oriented. So people adjust to the belly.

[yehat]

and again you confuse
usually a group of people monitors the household - family and wage workers
and gets up early only 1, which then sleeps during the day.

[ZAV69]

Actually it depends on the season and the amount of work. Because you need to milk the cow, drive it out into the herd and clean the stall. And if there are 5 of them?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: ZAV69

And if there are 5 of them?

So what? For a while, my family lived in Kazakhstan. We kept 2 cows, a bull for fattening, 2-3 pigs, without counting hens, ducks, geese. My father went on business trips for months and I coped with my mom. Mom at 8-00 to work, and me to school. My school and her work were in another village, which was 3 km away. And nothing, in time.

[Simargl]

Quote: yehat

he doesn't have to run at 7 every morning to work

Of course! After all, cattle gets up at 5
A modern person has a crooked understanding of life in the village, and in the village, in turn, there was a skew of sleep and wakefulness (Lenin and his GoElRo are to blame ) The fact is that today the working day is shifted by several hours. Previously, without cheap lighting, people tried to use the daylight to the maximum, and therefore they got up very early (by modern standards), with the first rays. But they went to bed early too. Sleeping, oddly enough, more than now.

[NordUral]

I will answer! Starting from Khrushchev, everything in the country by certain persons in the supreme power was done in order to make things worse and worse in the country. So we were prepared for the restructuring and betrayal of the Union.

[fruit_cake]

yeah, a great agrarian power, in Volgograd, thieves on harvesters are already collecting alien fields, killing people, and the cops are standing next to them, this is progress

[yehat]

Quote: fruit_cake

thieves on combines already harvested alien fields

I was in Kabarda - there are 2 watchmen sitting on each field, diagonally in the corners of the field.
my grandfather was the chairman of the collective farm; he went around the whole farm almost every day.
and no one is looking beyond the fields?

[fruit_cake]

get to know

[Vadim237]

This is with a salary of 120 - 150 rubles.

[Serg65]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Are you sure about that?

I do not know how to comrade NasRat, but I'm sure! Tales of feed grain for feed were launched in the Soviet media by party apparatchiks to calm the nerves of Soviet citizens! I myself personally took part in the protection against pirated and non-pirate encroachments of the Argentina-Odessa sea line, through which imported wheat was transported to the Union by Novorossiysk oil tankers to the Union. The USSR bought wheat 1,2 and 3 varieties, and for fodder they bought corn!

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

You bought milk at 26 cop. per liter and fermented baked milk at 40 cop per liter.

And you were not interested in why the cost of milk on the collective farm was 2 rubles per liter, and the cost of processed, bottled milk on the store counter was only 26 kopecks. ???

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Serg65

And you were not interested in why the cost of milk on the collective farm was 2 rubles per liter, and the cost of processed, bottled milk on the store counter was only 26 kopecks. ???

And you were not interested in where this figure is - 2 rubles per liter?

[Serg65]

Quote: Krasnoyarsk

Where does this figure come from - 2 rubles per liter?

This figure, for which the collective farm cows agreed to give their milk, moreover, cows of the middle strip and to the north and did not agree at such a price!

[Serg65]

Quote: Nasr

200 of thousands of tractors from Rostselmash in the early 90's.

Rostselmash all life harvesters produced !!!!
The syndicalist is not at all in the subject ... so, the garbage can drags from corner to corner!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Serg65

Rostselmash all life harvesters produced !!!!

Do not get excited Sergey.
https://rostselmash.com/products/tractors/

[Serg65]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Do not get excited Sergey.

All my life Rostselmash produced combines, among them the famous "Niva" and "Don", I confess I did not know about tractors! I am glad that the plant has occupied this niche!
Igor, the production of harvesters was stopped at 2 of the month! And stopped due to pathological mental laziness of the leading link! The state subsidized agricultural equipment manufacturers; over the past 5 years, 34 billion rubles of state money has been invested in this topic! For five years, Rostselmash hasn’t hit a finger in terms of reducing the cost of agricultural machinery! And who is to blame?

[tihonmarine]

But we knew that Rostselmash "produced harvesters, but under the USSR all factories made civilian and military products. What went to the defense industry was not published in the press, maybe Rostselmash did rockets or tanks.

[Lipchanin]

Quote: syndicalist

Once again - in the early 90s, 200 thousand were produced!

Then there was the USSR with 15 republics that bought them, there were Warsaw Pact countries that also bought them. There was Africa that bought them. There were other countries that, although they were gradually buying them.
How much and where are they selling now?
What to do with these 200 thousand?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: syndicalist

stopped Rostselmash

AvtoVAZ stopped due to lack of components. Here it is, dependence on suppliers from outside.

[d1m1drol]

And since when has "Autocomponent" become a supplier from outside?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: d1m1drol

And since when has "Autocomponent" become a supplier from outside?

Part of the blame for what happened lies with AvtoVAZ itself, some experts say. Suppliers were affected by the decline in production and the transfer to foreign manufacturers of a significant part of orders for automotive components for the new model range, they remind. This has weakened Russian suppliers, which now cannot ensure the rhythm of production. “If this happens, then there is a reason,” comments Viktor Kozlov, the former AVTOVAZagregat OJSC general director, who believes that Renault’s new owner, AVTOVAZ, deliberately provokes such conflict situations.

I live in Tolyatti, if that.

[d1m1drol]

Well, for that matter. I also live here.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: d1m1drol

Well, for that matter. I also live here.

Well then, you don’t need to tell how AvtoVAZ’s leadership deliberately ruined the network of allies, imposing enslaving conditions on enterprises originally created in conjunction with the VAZ. How many of them ceased to exist, and the rest breathe incense. And now VAZ has problems because of allies! Because of the stupid policy of the leadership of the VAZ, problems.

[Paranoid50]

Quote: Ingvar 72

dependence on suppliers from outside.

1. "From outside" is written together.
2. What, to the devil "from the outside", when adjacent neighbors chew snot ?! Brought down by Nizhny Novgorod.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Paranoid50

when neighboring neighbors chew snot ?!

Do you know what conditions the French imposed on allies? AvtoVAZ unit went broke on these conditions. Bo Anderson is directly involved. Now more than half of the components are ordered abroad, and it is unprofitable for locals to produce five parts at a low price. We need volumes. There are no volumes, but they do not produce themselves at a loss. Pat. Who is guilty to prompt?

[d1m1drol]

Well, if you dig so deep, the subcontractors began to bend when the Varangians arrived from the capital and completely reviewed the logistics. Redirected all AvtoVAZ income through our capital, Returning only crumbs to the region. VIS, DSC and other local offices then began their journey into non-existence. For some time he worked at DSC as a master, then the demand was serious for the plan. Now I don’t even know whether he is still alive or not.

[Serg65]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Here it is, dependence on suppliers from outside.

And Nizhny is no longer part of the Russian Federation ?????

[seti]

Such cranes are piece products. And produce them all over the world. Maybe 1-2 pieces per year. It makes no sense to produce them ourselves. Let's say they wanted to - do you even understand how much you need to invest in all this to get these two taps on the exhaust? After all, we may not need more. And lose time. And what will happen to the people who created it and equipment, knowledge? There is no point in producing everything ourselves. Yes, we need to strive, but not even we will pull. After all, even the USSR at the peak of opportunities did not produce everything, but bought a lot from this series (for example, floating docks) even in Europe. For example, Finland and Sweden.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: seti

It makes no sense to produce them for ourselves

Why, do the Chinese produce them? Or is there no point in developing a country?

[seti]

I will explain again. Yes, they produce them. But what are the volumes of their production? How many such mega cranes are needed in the world? I think that not so much. We ourselves need only two. Now we have them. Perhaps in the future you will need a couple more. And you speak for all the huge production. Understand - there is such a thing profitability. You can build a plant, invest huge amounts of money, but if nobody will buy its products, then why is it needed?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: seti

And you speak for all the huge production.

But does China produce them ??? So profitable? But there is one more nuance - any production during the war can be reconfigured to produce military equipment. Previously, AvtoVAZ could be reconfigured for the production of armored personnel carriers within two weeks (now, when the French are driving the VAZ, I don’t know). And we have one mining and processing. And industrialization is not visible at all.

[donavi49]

In Shanghai alone, there are more legal proceedings than in all of Russia. They have hundreds of shipyards at the Star level. And thanks to huge investments, experience and others (and also the fact that competitors in Europe have died) - the Chinese were able to master the markets. That is, they sell cranes to European, Asian and even American shipyards. In fact, there is volume - the whole world and it is profitable.

Russia does not squeeze the Chinese out of the market. And there are no hundreds of shipyards under such cranes. The bottom line is to throw billions into the void.

And yes, if wartime, then the cranes are no longer needed ... What did not have time to build, then did not. New Goliaths will have nowhere to put a banal, and why?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: donavi49

What they did not have time to build, they did not have time.

It's never too late. First you need to initiate the development of production in Russia. The production of everything you need, even if at first it will be more expensive than in China. This should be a state program. Otherwise, we run the risk of embarking on a big deal someday; China will not always be our "friend" and partner.

[donavi49]

Well - then you need to print money or get some thread of adamantium. Well, so that you can throw tens of billions of dollars on various topics that are not particularly needed.

But in fact, you need to choose between cranes and 3-4 Ash trees. Or a contract for PAK FA. Or something else.

And yes - in case of war, goliaths will be useless. Just because of the features of offshore construction. If you didn’t manage to finish something, it means that it will not have time anywhere. Plus, the shipyards will thoroughly fall under the blows almost certainly.

A complete blockade in peacetime cannot be achieved, because there are too many different interests of the countries. Well, if they succeed, then the absence of Goliaths will be the smallest problem in the country, somewhere on the 956 page of the report on what needs to be urgently done so that the country does not fall apart.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: donavi49

But in fact, you need to choose between cranes

Whatever the problem of choice, urgent development of the country's industry is needed.

[minus]

"Well, so that you can throw out tens of billions of dollars on various topics that are not particularly needed" is exactly what our leadership is doing. And the industry is in ... a hole !!!

[seti]

That feeling when you talk to a schoolboy. No offense said.
Here is an example. There is one copy of the Soviet An-225. It is now intended for the transport of oversized cargo by air. Does he work / fly a lot? While he has enough work. Perhaps there are 2-3 of such aircraft and the market for their work is oversaturated, downtime and losses will go ..
There is the concept of piece products. She has her own manufacturer and it’s difficult to stick into this highly specialized market. China Heavy Industry Corporation Nantong (CHIC) specializes in the manufacture of cranes. This is her world niche. Even Americans and EU countries buy heavy cranes from her. Why buy? Because it is more profitable than producing it yourself.
It is a deceptive feeling that there are four legs and a beam with a lifting trolley. This crane is very complex and a big thing stuffed with sophisticated electronics. And to do it ourselves for the sake of two cranes means to lose precious time and billions of rubles.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: seti

There is a single copy of the Soviet An-225.

Matvey - did the Chinese just buy all the An-225 documentation? The first plane is planned to be released by the end of 2019. And you're talking about busy niches ...
I’m not saying that we urgently need to produce cranes, I understand that we have shipyards once or twice, and it has costed a lot. First you need to build a shipyard. Under Stalin's industrialization, we bought the same equipment abroad, but for copying. As the Chinese are doing now.
Do you see at least a trend towards industrialization? I do not, the site "Made by us" is a diversion.

[seti]

You are wrong shipyards we have a lot. But they are mostly located in the west of the country and you need to understand that each shipyard is geared to its own production and does not produce anything horrible ... But the one that we are building now stands out. She under the new (for us a new) type of ships with large-assembly. It has a unique location. It will produce and has already begun production of both civilian and military courts. It will probably be the largest shipyard in the country. We really need this shipyard as soon as possible. I believe that we could produce similar cranes at home. There is where. But it would take a lot of time of means and forces. Plus shipping. This is 5-6 or maybe all 10 ... We don’t have them. And it’s not a fact that we created these cranes better than the Chinese who ate the dog in the production of cranes of this type.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: seti

But it would take a lot of time of means and forces.

I’m talking about the same thing - you need to buy, but at the same time produce your own. The Chinese economic miracle as proof of the correctness of this path.

[seti]

Yes, understand. Nobody is able to produce everything now. Certain types of final products, but not all.
Tomorrow we’ll throw a lot of money into the production of supercranes. The day after tomorrow they will raise a cry - they are not needed anywhere and are almost never used, the government of Dibila squandered people's money and how many kindergartens .. And stuff like that. And you can argue.
Bought and bought. It doesn’t matter which cat is a smoky or foreign Persian cat, but it already catches a mouse. While overseas, our overseas will save a ton of grain.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: seti

Nobody is able to produce everything now.

I know, but I need to strive for this. Moreover, there are more than enough friends in our world.

[page]

seti (Matvey Livanov) Today, 09: 31
As if yes, but there is still such a thing as the possession of technology, know-how. If the Chinese could make the AN-225, they would use it, despite the competition. Crawled out of the skin b. Until the drum, there will be an offer, there will be a demand.
And we are losing technology, specialists ...

[seti]

Read my posts above. But again briefly explain ..
We have the opportunity to create such superscreens. But it will be far from the final point of their application. This will take a long time. It will be expensive. All with a prefix very. And we need it now, and not much after tomorrow, because the shipyard has already begun work.

[kig]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But does China produce them ??? So profitable?

This is beneficial for China, because it has a giant shipbuilding industry.

I will tell you more. You can see the ZPMC logo on this crane at any major container terminal of any port in the world.

[krillon]

Do Finland and Sweden really shine on the map? I mean, why is it beneficial for them to deal with similar equipment, but we don’t?

[seti]

And who speaks for now ? There is a niche for a highly specialized market. It produces a small batch or even piece product. Understand there is a concept of profitability. These cranes or floating docks are a piece product and building from scratch a whole production for two pieces is, to say the least, impractical. At the Chinese giant, China Heavy Industry Corporation Nantong (CHIC) also produces cranes, but cranes the size of a Goliath are exceptions to the rules. There are only a few dozen in the world.

[Wilderness]

The countries of the collective West do not produce everything because they can always buy it. Other countries of the "collective West". We have no such economic allies (no more). Therefore, when trying to play geopolitics, we got what a country engaged in “collecting” is “worthy”.
And what is wrong with the country's development of unique technologies that are in demand all over the world? No need to try to produce everything - quite unique, key equipment.

[Vadim237]

In Russia, such gantry cranes with a lifting capacity of up to 300 tons are manufactured by Uralmash.

[AUL]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

Are we not part of the global labor division market? From an office paper clip to a mega crane, do everything ?!

And what, from the necessary for it, does not produce South Korea?

[Krasnoyarsk]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

From an office paper clip to a mega crane, do everything ?!

No, of course, but we must strive for this. There are a lot of unemployed in the country. All must be provided with work. The results of their work to trade with the whole world, and not energy and raw materials.

[Vladimir Matveyev]

Liberals also whined in the 90s and ruined industry.
The clever strives to produce everything at home.

[page]

Vladimir Matveev (Hura) Today, 11:11 AM
Exactly. +

[minus]

I'm from such a sect! And I read that Russia needs to be produced! And paper clips and needles and bolts with nuts, and not buy non-standard Chinese! Their residents need to create jobs !!! And you probably from the sect * we will sell gas and oil, we will buy everything for green papers, we do not need industry *! ?????

[tihonmarine]

If it’s easier and cheaper to buy, then buy, you cannot buy steal.

[demo]

Even people far from sectarianism are clearly struck by the following figures and indicators - South Korea, the population of 51, 47 million people. Gross Product - 1,531 trillion USD (2017 g.).
Russian Federation, population 144, 5 million people. Gross Product - 1,578 trillion USD (2017 g.).
We will not talk about the product range?

[armata_armata]

I never could understand why the Russian Federation should produce everything that the collective West does, including China?

Oh, how much pathos, I’ll die ... In fact, the Russian Federation produces almost nothing except oil, wallowing deep in a raw-material state without a developed industry

[Vadim237]

In fact, in Russia they produce everything from pins to reactors, rocket engines and satellites - and the undeveloped industry has remained only in the heads of every day whiners.

[tech3030]

Look at South Korea and all questions will disappear.

[Vadim237]

And what to look at it - the country has been developing in capitalism since 56, was engaged in the development of competitively capable electronics engineering products and other things, and Russia began to really engage in competitively capable civilian products only in the mid 2000s, and even ate spruce.

[NordUral]

No matter how sad it is for you, but yes, everything must be done without which the country cannot exist independent.

[ROSS_51]

I agree with you, but ..
"Russia is a continent disguised as a country, Russia is a civilization disguised as a nation" (c) Jose Manuel Barroso

[smart ass]

I remember when you come to the store you will buy diapers for a child and baby food is nestle, do you think that if it weren’t for foreigners the children of the Russian Federation would have been shabby and hungry?

[Egor Dedkov]

And you did not try to read small letters on the packaging .......

[smart ass]

We tried it, it was made here, but the money wasn’t gone

[ruslann004]

I have to disappoint you there are no 150 lemons.

[Vadim237]

Most likely we have more than 150 million declared, the next census will show how much and why.

[fruit_cake]

With a population of 50 million, South Korea produces a huge amount of marine equipment, machinery and electronics. Finland with a population of 5 million produces the largest ships in the world. You can still list a bunch of small countries that have serious production. Only in the great Russia parasitize on the developments of the USSR in the amount of 150 mln of the population it is not clear what is occupied by and a handful of clowns selling oil.

[Vadim237]

"Only in great Russia they parasitize on the developments of the USSR" - These developments of the USSR became obsolete both physically and morally back in the 90s. Now they are creating something new.

[fruit_cake]

are so outdated that they are still not able to build the MiG-31, they were able to repeat the Tu-160 almost thirty years later, and what do they create a fundamentally new one? specialists flee the country, not so long ago a man said that he was engaged in simulations for the military, paid 60 thousand, in a megaphone he was offered several times more salary and he left

[smart ass]

There is a proposal to declare war on Finland and surrender to them the whole country

[Sevastiec]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

Are we another planet and civilization?

Yes. That is how they are related to us. We have no allies except the army and navy and there are no countries that we could count on as 100% reliable suppliers. At a certain point, something needs to be done before the cut, and sanctions are also against the country.

[Waltasar]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Crane probably Russian production!

Who cares who made the crane, the main thing is that he will make Russian ships and ships :)
Does it matter to you where the screwdriver with which you built your house is made?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Waltasar

You fundamentally where the screwdriver is made

Yes. For I am paying for a screwdriver for a Chinese worker, but I would like mine. People here really get less Chinese.

[Nastia makarova]

the Chinese are starving

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

the Chinese are starving

They told you this mulk on TV? Ren TV probably? They s \ n higher than ours. Now the Chinese are the most tourist nation, ride around the world. I’m probably hungry!

[Nastia makarova]

I was in China, and on TV they also say that they live poorly, there are rich people, of course, and a lot, just 1.5 billion of them, and therefore it seems that they are everywhere, in large cities, basically they have work, and in general they eat 2-3 times less than Europeans

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

I was in China, and on TV they also say that they live poorly

That you were in China, I doubt it. For information on the average salary in China is publicly available. And it is higher than in Russia. And the income gap between the rich and the poor is lower. Based on the foregoing, the standard of living in China is higher than in Russia, despite the fact that there are 1.5 billion of them.
P.S. And the fucking mortgage is much cheaper there.

[COJIDAT]

The myth of the average salary is like a "parable of cabbage rolls". The director eats meat, and the subordinates eat cabbage, and together they are all fed cabbage rolls on paper!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: COJIDAT

The myth of the average salary is like "the parable of cabbage rolls

Of course! But you need to understand that in Russia as well. But it was not for nothing that I mentioned the income gap between the rich and the poor. In China, it is less, and therefore the information on the average salary there is more objective.

[Nastia makarova]

salaries do not compare but compare purchasing power

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

and compare purchasing power

Both are compared. But if you are already talking about purchasing power, ask about the prices of Ali express (without delivery to the Russian Federation)
I do not like Echo of Moscow, but some of their articles with facts.

Taxes in China and Russia. Some comparisons ...

https://echo.msk.ru/blog/nevejkin/816678-echo/
Compare!

[Nastia makarova]

it doesn’t prove anything

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

it doesn’t prove anything

I understand everything. So you will not prove anything. Bye.

[Greenwood]

Why are you arguing with a woman? Women's logic is not understandable.

[Xenofont]

It’s not worth talking about the average salary: Putin has repeatedly found himself in a stupid situation when discussing salaries with people in collectives.

[Nastia makarova]

s / n in the currency is not correct to compare, compare in pies

[AU Ivanov.]

The official poverty line in China is $ 340 per year. That is less bucks a day.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

That is less bucks a day.

Learn the materiel. Inequality in China - http://www.rusmirror.ru/post/06112018

[AU Ivanov.]

Here, somehow, the salaries of those in power are uninteresting: I'm not envious and I don’t count money in someone else’s pockets. It is enough for me that my income allows me to live comfortably.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

It is enough for me that my income allows me to live comfortably.

Does the poverty around you not care? Degradation of health and education? Fertility decline?

[AU Ivanov.]

This poverty is very noticeable when you try to park a car in the evening. Well, or drive around the city. And in my small Motherland I do not see either barefoot or hungry. And what kind of education degradation are you talking about when graduates of our universities are highly regarded abroad? And schoolchildren and students take first places in international olympiads in the exact sciences. (my younger one, 10 years ago, took 3rd place in St. Petersburg, the discipline is programming, although internationally, he was middle-aged. A regular, non-specialized school) And how the birth rate depends on the economy I can’t imagine: the neighboring Finns, with all their powerful social sphere , the birth rate is even less than ours.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

car.

Before the revolution, horses were counted! And in the 90s, cell was a luxury. Let's talk about living space.

Quote: AS Ivanov.

graduates of our universities are highly regarded abroad?

Then the kids of all officials study over the hill!

[AU Ivanov.]

And what is wrong with housing? Under construction, and at a decent pace. Not far from my house, a huge quarter was wiped off. Because of him, now in the morning I left the yard and immediately into traffic jam - therefore, by metro. And before the revolution - yes, it was believed by horses, since there were no cars - then his own horse was a measure of security.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

And what is wrong with housing?

With the price of it. How many years do you have to pay a bonded mortgage in order to become a happy owner of your own apartment? With s \ n 25 tr? And can you afford to have children?

[AU Ivanov.]

How long did it take to queue for an apartment to get it for free? And not in ownership. For half a life, people in Leningrad could not escape from communal apartments. And these quarters are almost completely populated. It turns out that the salary is far from 25? If enough for an apartment and a car.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

It turns out that the salary is far from 25?

Come on Avito (vacancies) or on XX.

[AU Ivanov.]

But who is looking for vacancies on Avito? There is only one slag, it’s rarely worthwhile flashing. Take it wise that we are worthless. What friends - no comrades?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

What friends - no comrades?

Is there, but what does it mean? Do you even know how many people in Togliatti are unemployed? I know how much they get at the VAZ, and what are the working conditions there now? Sat down - deprived of allowances. In the truest sense of the word.
In Samara, work is not particularly better.

[AU Ivanov.]

Is Togliatti the only city in the country? Are we living in the Principality of Monaco?
And I, for example, with great difficulty found a specialist for setting up woodworking equipment. (Novgorod region) Either hands from the hip joints, or space prices. Car service - the same picture: a competent auto electronics engineer worth its weight in gold.

[Simargl]

Quote: Ingvar 72

For information on the average salary in China is publicly available. And it is higher than in Russia.

So in Russia the average is 44000 (GDP said so), but in fact there are working beggars.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Yes indeed. In China, an ordinary resident is very poor, especially in villages and in cities, too, things are not going smoothly and largely for this reason, many leave their country to work in other countries.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

especially in the villages

Tell you about life in a Russian village? I go to the Ulyanovsk region. for mushrooms, all these half-abandoned villages I see with my own eyes.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

I go hunting and fishing to Siberia, the Far East know how things are going there.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

The Far East know how things are going there.

Will we discuss the settlements? And then someone asserted to me somehow that in Altai there are five children in villages, and in fact it turned out that the population of these villages has decreased significantly.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Yes, it's nonsense that someone in the villages gives birth to five children, maybe one - two families, but no more and even then a big question (and probably not many in the cities) at least I haven’t met such people, well, if only because of maternity capital so that an apartment could be bought, and even then a maximum of two. In the villages, mostly only old people and elderly people remained, and young people mostly settled in the cities. this began to happen.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

In villages, population decreases at a high rate

Yes, but did we start the conversation from another? In rural areas where people live better than in Chinese villages?

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

What ??? And how can one compare their life with ours, even if no one was there. If someone would have lived there for a long time, then from this conclusion one could compare the living conditions. And according to statistics, in China, too, things are not so smooth as we also have poverty. They even have positive advantages of living in a rural area than ours. If people live in their village, the state supports them and buys all the products that they produce there.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

And according to statistics in China, everything is not so smooth as we have poverty too.

Nobody says that everything is smooth, there is no smooth anywhere. But in terms of income and consumer ability, people live better there. Z \ n higher, prices for products like ours, everything else lower, a penny mortgage, progressive tax, etc.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Perhaps their salaries are higher than ours, but not everyone can use them, there is not enough work for everyone. And you do not know they have pensions for ordinary citizens.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

there are pensions for ordinary citizens.

Yes, but not at all. There is a complicated pension system.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

But for now, at least everyone has the right to receive a pension. That’s why their salaries are higher, they somehow cover these shortcomings.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

But for now, at least everyone has the right to receive a pension.

Only a few have the right to survive, right?

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Yes, there is such a fact.

[Vadim237]

70% of the population does not have a pension.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Vadim237

70% of the population does not have a pension.

Link.

[Bull Terrier]

food prices there are higher. and decently higher. and people live there not as you think. Take a ride in the north of China and see for yourself.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Bull Terrier

food prices there are higher

Do not la la. We have already argued on this topic. If you do not take Shanghai and Guangzhou as an example, the prices there are even lower. And these cities are appropriate to compare with Sochi and Yalta.

[Bull Terrier]

I live in Khabarovsk. and compare with the prices in my city. do you think they are higher than in the west of the country?) and once again, were you at least in one small city of China yourself? anyone to argue with those who are there regularly? Yes, in smaller cities, prices are lower. I can compare, for example, in Fuyuan, which you can go to the weekend stupidly on the ship. but it's us. close to us. but you won’t go because this trip will be much more expensive for you. you just start to understand what I'm telling you and with what prices I compare them.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Bull Terrier

I live in Khabarovsk. and compare with the prices in my city.

There are a bunch of sites showing product prices in China. In Beijing, in particular, food prices are not higher than ours. For everything else, prices are lower, and at times.
P.S. For agricultural products, VAT in China is 0%!

[Nastia makarova]

everything is expensive in China, the course is very large

[Greenwood]

10 rubles per yuan big rate?

[Nastia makarova]

of course big, tours there are very expensive

[Bull Terrier]

but in real life everything is somehow different))) and again I repeat, I compare with a specific city in our country. not with Moscow or Sochi there. And I'm talking about those places where I saw everything with my own eyes. And I also know a lot about sn. they deduced, like ours, the average in the hospital, forgetting all the time that there are more beggars there than we have in general the population in the country.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Bull Terrier

brought out as we have the average for the hospital

Turn on the logic - the average and there and we have the average. There she is higher. And the gap between the rich and the poor is lower there (tired of repeating). Simple math.

[Bull Terrier]

that would not argue you advice is simple, as I wrote above. Take a train from north to south of China. you will see everything yourself and understand everything. arguing with a person who studies life through the internet is pretty funny.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Bull Terrier

Take a train from north to south of China.

I’m not Chinese, I only have enough money for trips to Mezhdurechensk (75 km), and that’s not always the case.

[Bull Terrier]

Well, these are your problems) I’m just telling you that you need to prove something to someone only if you are in the subject.

[Grits]

Quote: Ingvar 72

There are a bunch of sites showing product prices in China. In Beijing, in particular, food prices are not higher than ours. For everything else, prices are lower, and at times.

I live in Primorye. I will not say for Beijing, but I know that my acquaintances go to Sunka (Sunfuehe) just stupidly eat delicious and drink vodka. Because in comparison with us, the prices there are just cheap.

[Greenwood]

In Hunchong, a two-room apartment in a new house costs no more than 2 lamas. And in Vlad already jumped for 5.

[Grits]

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

Well, if only because of maternal capital so that you can buy an apartment

I wonder where it is possible to buy an apartment for 460 thousand.?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Gritsa

I wonder where it is possible to buy an apartment for 460 thousand.?

There are such places. But I don’t want to live there.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

Quote: Gritsa

Quote: SERGEY SERGEEVICS

Well, if only because of maternal capital so that you can buy an apartment

I wonder where it is possible to buy an apartment for 460 thousand.?

It was about the village, there you can buy for this amount. There are a lot of abandoned houses there, they sell for a small amount.

[Vadim237]

Old Believers give birth to 7 or more children.

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

That’s why they, by their status, are supposed to give birth a lot.

[armata_armata]

I go hunting and fishing in Siberia, the Far East I know how things are

Yes, everything is fine)))

[SERGEY SERGEEVICS]

And what good do you see in this. For me this is a very terrible picture.

[Nastia makarova]

in the Kuban and North Caucasus in the villages they live perfectly

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

in the Kuban and North Caucasus in the villages

Compare buoy (navigation device) with your finger! The North Caucasus is all in subsidies. Yes, and the climate has.

[Nastia makarova]

where does the subsidy? they don’t reach people

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

where does the subsidy?

Despite the fact that a social program is formed from subsidies. Part of it nevertheless reaches people. In China comes completely. For the life of a person in China is short, stealing budget funds.

[Nastia makarova]

there is also high corruption)))) do not live on social programs here in the south

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

there is also high corruption))

The mentality however. But the Sechins, Chubais and Timchenko they end up like this -

[Nastia makarova]

this is not easier, corruption is great, well, they will shoot Sechin. you still will not be easier to live

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

you still will not be easier to live

It will become. For they will steal less, instead of rolling back roads they will learn how to build normally. Etc.

[Nastia makarova]

steal less will not, china confirmation

[AU Ivanov.]

And new ones come in their place. Therefore, they shoot constantly and there is no end - there is no edge to this. The thirst for profit is often higher than the instinct of self-preservation.

[armata_armata]

I was in China, and on TV they also say that they live poorly

He lived in China for three months, and yes they have a higher standard of living than in Russia

[Bull Terrier]

already 100 times many argued here. is the most tourist nation you say in terms of quantity or percentage? it is reasonable to assume that in a country in which the population of 1.5 yards of tourists is stupidly more than in that in which 150 million. salaries again complete game. all good sn in big cities that grow by leaps and bounds. from the countryside who can bring down there. even sausages on the street to sell the main thing in the city. it is not necessary to give China an example if you know about it only from pictures from an Internet. everything is fundamentally the opposite.

[Grits]

Quote: Nastia Makarova

the Chinese are starving live

did you happen to wake up in the 50s?

[rocket757]

The same wondered, and who pile such a miracle!
Still not ours. Technique, of course, specialized, at least such gigantic designs ....
I would like to be able to \ do everything ourselves ... we have factories for the production of bridge cranes, but we have not yet grown to gigantism, but why it is limited to more common, popular models, we need to understand this, consider it, in short, know why.

[Black owerlord]

So yes, it is sad when the shekel leaves us.

[bessmertniy]

Another thing is important - to surpass these all competitors in some key areas. Then we will be successful. If it is possible to raise shipbuilding to a level that it will even become an export industry, then we can say that life was a success.

[smart ass]

Screwdrivers are my topic, in Russia they are not produced

[page]

Sorry, Chinese. We forgot how to do such.

[page]

Manufacturer: Shanghai Zhenhua Heavy Industries Heavy Industries Co., Ltd (abbreviated as ZPMC, formerly Zhenhua Port Machinery Company) is the largest manufacturer of port, marine and shipbuilding equipment, engineering vessels and large-sized metal structures. ZPMC (Shanghai Zhenhua Heavy Industries Company) is a subsidiary of a multidisciplinary concern of the China Communications and Construction Company / China Communications Construction Co, Ltd (CCCS).

[K-612-O]

And they didn’t know how, I’ll tell you a secret.

[donavi49]

The British aircraft carrier was also made on a Chinese crane. A bunch of US shipyards - similarly works on Chinese cranes.

ZPMC has more than a year of queue like that.

No, it would be possible to blame some kind of squalor (this is reality - because you can’t make a world-class level from scratch) and get another cave shipyard with products at 500% more expensive and 100500% longer. That is, orders for which will be 0. The very idea of ​​making the first (and for now) the only shipyard in Russia of a world level is very correct.

There are not only cranes from China so then. Another floating dock from China. A third of machine tools from China. In the design of the shipyard, after the release of a number of partners, Chinese specialists entered.

[Zaurbek]

The Chinese and China holds the 1st place in the world in such constructions and port cranes.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Crane probably Russian production!

The USSR bought 0-ton "Goliaths" manufactured by KONE in Finland for the construction of TAVKR at "Stapel 900".

[Ingvar 72]

Alexei - read the comments below, there I wrote in detail my opinion.

[APASUS]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Crane probably Russian production!

The Chinese crane, they have a turn for 10-12 years. China even made a concession to us and we get it out of turn, thanks to good relations

[Nevsky_ZU]

Will they build commercial high-tonnage ships, or can they finally dream of a new aircraft carrier?)

[Uncle lee]

gas carriers and icebreakers of the Leader project.

not a destroyer, notice ....
I understand that icebreakers are needed ... But! Everything is focused on the export of oil and gas, which means improving the welfare of Sechin and Miller.

[Nevsky_ZU]

Quote: Uncle Lee

gas carriers and icebreakers of the Leader project.

not a destroyer, notice ....
Everything is sharpened on the export of oil and gas, and therefore on improving the welfare of Sechin and Miller.

In any case, these are jobs and competencies in the Far East. People should not leave.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

People should not leave

I do not mind ... And you read how many and what kind of specialists are required!
There is not so much typed throughout the CIS, so the Varangians will work.

[Uncle lee]

The trade union organization, in turn, turned to the head of the Big Stone, Alexander Andryukhin, and the chairman of the City Duma, Alexei Kuznetsov, with a letter objecting to the proposal of the management of SSK Zvezda to allow 847 highly qualified foreign specialists, including 80 ship pipelines of 4-5 category.
Do you think that the whole Far East is one shipbuilder?
And engineering is also needed ...

[syndicalist]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

People should not leave.

But for some reason they are being resettled, freeing the TORs for the Chinese.

[Zaurbek]

Even so, liquefaction technology, dry dock, infrastructure and paid jobs remain.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Zaurbek

remains

"They’re wearing chacha past their nose
Past the company - I plum ..."
Yes, nothing remains ....

[donavi49]

The entire first program is crammed with a civil order.

[Zaurbek]

Gas carriers ... and there was an idea to give fishing quotas only to companies that built a seiner at a shipyard in the Russian Federation, but they still discuss something.

[donavi49]

So, what's the point? Won Amber sanctions hit the trawlers. For the Norwegian project with the Norwegian kit.

Kaliningrad “Yantar” due to sanctions cannot finish building trawlers for the Far East
The Yantar shipyard in the Kaliningrad region, due to the imposed sanctions, faced difficulties in building trawlers for Far Eastern fishermen. About this with reference to the representative of the enterprise on Thursday, 13 June, Interfax reported.

We are talking about the vessels "Leninets", "Commander" and "Udarnik", intended for the fishing collective farm named after Lenin in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. The ships are now 95%, 80% and 70% ready, respectively.

"They did not begin to separate military and civil shipbuilding, which somewhat restrains the course of construction, since instead of full cooperation, one has to look for alternative solutions to a number of problems", - quotes" Interfax "representative of the shipyard.

[Grits]

Quote: donavi49

We are talking about the vessels "Leninets", "Commander" and "Udarnik", intended for the fishing collective farm named after Lenin in Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. The ships are now 95%, 80% and 70% ready, respectively.

Judging by the names of the ships, either very funny pranksters or members of the CPSU work in the fishing collective farm.

[Mountain shooter]

Serious technique. And they will build large ships. Shipbuilding is reborn ... Of course, it is easier in Korea ... but it is not necessary. Money must work in their own country ... Such a simple thought ... That would be our economists imbued with it.

[bessmertniy]

So far, Zvezda's shipbuilding is unprofitable, and it is not yet known when it will be recouped. When other countries start ordering the construction of ships at the plant, it will be possible to say that this Russian project was a success.

[Grits]

Quote: bessmertniy

When other countries start ordering shipbuilding at the plant, it will be possible to say that this Russian project was a success.

No need to dream and rave. In the Asia-Pacific region, as regards shipbuilding, we are insects against China, South Korea and Japan.

[donavi49]

Well, the fattest contract left the Korean DSME. And there they bake them like pies. In truth.

[Zaurbek]

in the meantime, there’s just no where to do this and the first ships were ordered in Korea.

[Cro-Magnon]

All right! But let's face it. So far, we will just have assembly in Kamen. Almost the entire layout is foreign. We have to catch up with technology for another twenty years. While we are not doing our good ship's boilers, cargo turbines, autopilots, separators, there is no production of our main engines, etc. Dependence on Korea, China, the West is colossal ...

[Vadim237]

Five years at most, for all that you have listed.

[Vadim237]

The clearest example of that you are wrong "The Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation) has completed research and development work on the DRK9000 theme. A prototype of a propulsion and steering column (DRC) with a capacity of 9 MW of high ice class Icebreaker 7 has successfully passed all tests.

[Maalkavianin]

The main thing is that now they would not drown him, like that dock.

[denk20]

Cranes of this scale were once made by Mariupol Tyazhmash. Now only electric steel is left of it and car building is barely breathing.

[Zaurbek]

China is number 1 in the world.

[Motivatornick]

like this

[yehat]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

From an office paper clip to a mega crane, do everything

with the collapse of the ussr we lost almost all light industry, but the heavy industry remained, as did thousands of industries. In the USSR there were can openers made of excellent steel. Try now to find just a normal can opener - it's either Chinese foil, or pseudo-European Chinese shiny foil, or some completely uncomfortable normal steel knife, but with the price of an airplane.

[Vadim237]

Knives of all kinds and different piled up - everyone can afford, with the same quality.

[armata_armata]

with the collapse of the ussr, we lost almost all light industry, but the heavy industry remained, like thousands of industries

Excuse me, where is this heavy industry? Maybe we have a developed machine tool industry, based not on foreign nodes? Can civil aircraft, except for a world designer called a superjet? Maybe in our country at least tractors and harvesters not from foreign parts are produced? And there are thousands of such examples; just look at the amount of exported products of the heavy industry of the Russian Federation
We do not have heavy industry, there are its remnants and no more

[IC]

Such a unique crane consists of 2 parts. Metal structures that can be manufactured according to the documentation and under the supervision of the manufacturer at the shipyard itself and electro-mechanical, hydraulic equipment, control systems and software that supplies the manufacturer, which are produced by subcontractors from different countries. Those. it is a product of the international division of labor. The USSR almost did not exist there, so its economics ended badly.

[Grits]

Initially, the delivery was supposed to take place in 2023, but now they plan to complete all the work in 2020.
... I wake up, wake up, wake up ...

[Ee-mae bee]

In people, ah! I’m bastard with them ... They put the equipment, which undoubtedly goes to the benefit of the production - it’s bad, it’s just to shoot an empty cartridge into the duple, how bad!
Ugh, damn it. If now we can’t build such cranes - we need to buy them, that we can build what we CAN NOW! But if the capacities and resources are freed up, then we will think whether it is time to make such cranes ourselves. So far, and without this, the case for tonsils.
PiSi: the same drowned float - bought over the hill. IN USSR

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Yeo-mayo bee

If now we can’t build such cranes - we need to buy them

Who argues. But at the same time you need to raise your production, right? China developed its industry in parallel with screwdriver assembly.

[Ee-mae bee]

What are we doing? They didn’t put a crane in order to look at it — it will work and will continue to work on industry. Without a crane, this industry cannot build a lot of things, which means that the crane is industrial development.
And for decades, China bought processors and didn’t even think about assembling them. By the way, he never mastered the technology, but bought it corny from the former Nokia

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Yeo-mayo bee

By the way, I have not mastered the technology

You have outdated data.

[Vadim237]

For this, Uralmash will need to be transported to the coast - only so that it would produce two such cranes per year, since such huge structures can only be transported by sea.

[Every]

There were pictures of the Goliath crane delivered by sea to the Big Stone with a load capacity of 1,2 thousand tons. We are talking about the delivery of equipment for working with supermassive objects at the shipyard Zvezda.

Well, this is already noteworthy news. And then, recently, VO began to sin with the news about the supply of diesel engines for boats.
They thoroughly took up the new GCC on Bolshoi Kamen. Hefty dry dock, now here are the cranes.
In the Far East, with CVD and SRH is generally a disaster. There are simply no more. We have to drive large ships to the north.
Now there will be a factory with the ability to assemble large blocks.

[Servisinzhener]

The USSR did not disdain similar purchases. Here is a quote from an article about a shipyard in Nikolaev.

At the beginning of 1977, the USSR Ministry of Foreign Trade signed a contract with the well-known Finnish company KONE to supply the customer with two gantry cranes with a lifting capacity of 900 tons each. The company was also obliged to install equipment for installation and three portal cranes of smaller capacity, which were also planned to be installed on the stocks number "0". The cost of the contract was impressive at the then price level: over 20 million dollars.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

Quote: Ingvar 72

Crane probably Russian production!

Are you from a sect, who believes that the Russian Federation with a population of 150 million, should produce on its territory, what did 285 million of USSR + Warsaw Pact countries produce? I could never understand why the Russian Federation should produce everything that the collective West does, including China? Are we another planet and civilization? Are we not part of the global market for the division of labor? From an office clip to a mega tap, do everything ?!

Not properly. It is necessary to take into account the population of the Earth. It smells like billions.
There is no need to produce everything that is being done on the planet. Why, for example, do we produce Japanese netsuke? Yes, and wouldn’t this be a fake? And the Finns will always do the printing equipment better than us.

[petrol cutter]

... and gentlemen commentators got into a relationship. Who Opel is cooler. I already forgot what I got for ...
The crane must be considered credible. The farm is useful. If in short.

[military pensioner]

"For what purposes are you planning to use the Goliath crane on the Zvezda?"
It was announced 2 years ago. NO military orders! FIFTEEN ice-class super-gas carriers and supertankers will be built for "Putin's friend" Sechin by 2024 to plunder the Arctic ... Nothing personal, just business.

[yehour]

Quote: Alexey RA

More precisely, "big, green, smells of sausage."

- More precisely: The riddle "Long, green, smells like sausage."
The answer. "Train from the Yaroslavl station."

If anyone does not remember, the so-called "Food Program" was adopted at the May (1982) Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU, and in 1988 vodka and food stamps appeared.
The project of the USSR came to its logical conclusion ...

[Vladimir T]

Quote: URAL72

We won’t be able to become a leader in world shipbuilding,

We are already leaders in icebreaking. We will be in the gas carriers. And yet, well, not really shipbuilding, but floating nuclear power plants are also advanced in Russia.

[yehat]

Quote: armata_armata

Sorry, but where is this heavy industry

I'm talking about the period of the collapse of the USSR in 91-93, at that time enterprises were already dying en masse due to the processes of "perestroika", but there was still a lot left.
and you are talking about "now", which is happening after more than 20 years.
and the collapse in this period has nothing to do with the legacy of the USSR. This is another country where urks and shadow bosses rule, and not a party and people.

Well, what about your hysterical questions. after the superjet was the ms-21 project, where foreign components were significantly reduced. The top authorities realized that without a developed industry it would not be safe to cut, but it could never fully compensate for the collapsed one.

[Vadim237]

Of the 15 enterprises, 10 worked for the defense industry, of course, the defense industry was gone and they covered themselves.

[yehat]

Quote: NordUral

Starting from Khrushchev, everything in the country by certain persons in the supreme power was done to make things worse and worse in the country

no. Khrushchev, for all his eccentricities, wanted only 2 things - that no one would punish him for his old sins and really want to make life better in the country, and many to whom he opened the way, wanted the same, but as they understood, but they didn’t understood that after the war there were very few people who understood how to build a communist or at least a socialist state.
And Khrushchev, with his new party line, was building something completely different - what he understood was a banal philistine paradise, which, in essence, is a form of capitalism. And in the end, inevitably destroyed with so much difficulty built under Lenin and Stalin and at the same time guaranteed not to achieve what he wanted.
His son constantly speaks with the topic "dad believed in good things," but in fact, daddy, due to incompetence, drained the entire development potential of the USSR, all the unobvious strict rules that had to be introduced into the work of the country. Despite the strong differences from Khrushchev and more sober views, Brezhnev was also far from understanding the economic essence of what was happening and stopped only the most obvious imbalances, without changing the essence - this is how stagnation appeared.
But stagnation was not the first time. The first stagnation appeared as a result of the NEP, because of which it was so quickly and painfully turned.
I thought the unprofitable construction of the CMEA internal trading rules was a consequence of the decisions of Stalin, but it turned out that this happened later.

[AU Ivanov.]

The first and most important thing that Khrushch did was to bring the Communist Party out of control of the special services and to make party functionaries untouchable. With this, the degradation of the Soviet Union began. Hence the merging of power with crime, which had already begun under Brezhnev. The absurd economic pseudo-reforms promoted by party workers who did not understand the economy were one idea of ​​the economic councils that was worth it. There is an opinion that at the end of his reign, Stalin wanted to remove the CPSU from power, leaving the parties with only ideological functions. For which he passed away prematurely. This would be the optimal solution for the country: government in the hands of professionals - technocrats who are not obscured by ideology.

[yehat]

Quote: Bull Terrier

food prices there are higher. and decently higher. and people live there not as you think. Take a ride in the north of China and see for yourself.

In China, the imbalances are even greater than ours.
in Europe, the ginny index (difference in living standards) rarely exceeds 14 times (11 is already considered very bad; in Germany, it was forbidden to have more than 1 in one enterprise). we have about 9, in China about 50.
And the situation in the cities of China depends not only on size - their position on trade routes is important. For example, Harbin is small by Chinese standards, but life there is more like in a large trading city.

[yehat]

Quote: Vadim237

Of the 15 enterprises, 10 worked for the defense industry.

if you smack nonsense, it starts to squeal and therefore people understand that you are smashing nonsense.
the defense industry played an important role in the USSR, but the share of GDP spending on it did not exceed 8 percent.
And the remaining 90 +% in your opinion was created by the sale of seeds in the market?

[yehat]

Quote: AS Ivanov.

The first and most important thing that Khrushch did was to bring the Communist Party out of control of the special services, and to make party functionaries untouchable.

no. the party and special services intersected. There is no one-way control
Khrushchev did something else - privileges for the nomenclature (not necessarily the party, for example, the head of the fuel and lubricants warehouse)

[yehat]

Quote: Nasr

in those years

horses mixed again, people ...
what years are you talking about?
when the virgin lands were plowed, giant squares were commissioned. Did not have?
finally, the structure of cx has changed greatly. If the peasants ate one bread before the revolution, then (oh horror!), They began to eat meat, milk, fish, and grow potatoes in huge volumes.
the consumption of other cereals like buckwheat, oatmeal, barley, etc., has become much larger
My mother was born in 53 in Belarus. at 5, she ate mainly potatoes, mushrooms and all kinds of pickles, very little bread + milk and sour cream. Do you understand that the structure of consumption has simply changed dramatically?
And by the way, the losses of the collected bread have become much less; selling it abroad has become less. Wheat grade has also changed - become better
and you here vtulyut about gross figures. such a comparison is permissible only if the consumption structure at least remains close, and it becomes completely different!
you know how to count the T37 wedges in 38, compare with the current number of MBTs and cry - the army is gone!

[srha]

The very first comment: "The crane is probably of Russian production!" - set the direction of the discussion.

So was it worth or not worth buying this crane in China?

The publication stated that the commissioning of the dock is accelerating, is it related to the purchase - and the author knows ... the question is not clarified.

Now for the construction. Gantry cranes were built by the ancient Greeks. A mechanical engineer (if he is an engineer) must be able to calculate the construction of a gantry crane and be able to build it. Russian can. So in the USSR in the 70s, approximately 7000 units were built per year. Build and now, for example, the Trinity Crane Plant.

There was a question of price. There is no data on this in the article, in hundreds of comments there is no data - what commentators argue about is not clear. Clavs break, dislach and laych, and I did not find a meaningful comment, wherever the comparative cost or prices of cranes would be indicated, or rather ctrl-f. Three hundred comments are completely off topic on the main issue of the discussion of the article - and you, I'm not talking about commentators, but about a society that includes officials, authors and commentators- With this logic still hoping not to buy cranes in China?

[yehat]

Quote: NordUral

And what is agriculture of the West based on?

it works very differently.
In the US, farmers are supported by the government and rural banks, as well as an army of homeless wage laborers wandering around the country.

[yehat]

Quote: Serg65

only 26 kopecks

village donated their milk in tens of liters at prices of about 15-20 kopecks. per liter I do not remember more precisely. It was quite comparable to the work of the farm. A small dairy worked 1 hours a day on this raw material from a small village.

[yehat]

Quote: Vadim237

you only need the number of tractors and everything else that is 100 percent bought.

the market is unsold goods
a market economy means high structural costs for its maintenance
economists estimate them differently, on average 20% of GDP.
the United States is declaring huge GDP figures, but in reality, if you remove stray transactions, all kinds of dog grooming services, the costs of maintaining the market and other unnecessary institutions, it suddenly turns out
that they cannot contain what is needed. For example, see local government debt growth statistics. And this despite the fact that they are draining resources around the world.
therefore, the distortions of the market is not a myth, it must always be taken into account.